Alter Ego: Centennial

Edited by

ROY THOMAS

Celebrating 100 issues— and 50 years— of the legendary comics fanzine Characters TM & ©2011 DC Comics

Centennial Edited by

ROY THOMAS

TwoMorrows Publishing - Raleigh, North Carolina

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL THE 100TH ISSUE OF ALTER EGO, VOLUME 3 Published by: TwoMorrows Publishing 10407 Bedfordtown Drive Raleigh, North Carolina 27614 www.twomorrows.com • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com No part of this book may be reproduced in any form without written permission from the publisher.

First Printing: March 2011 All Rights Reserved • Printed in Canada Softcover ISBN: 978-1-60549-031-1 UPC: 1-82658-27763-5 03 Trademarks & Copyrights: All illustrations contained herein are copyrighted by their respective copyright holders and are reproduced for historical reference and research purposes.

All characters featured on the cover are TM and ©2011 DC Comics. All rights reserved.

DC Comics does not endorse or confirm the accuracy of the views expressed in this book.

Editorial package ©2011 Roy Thomas & TwoMorrows Publishing.

Individual contributions ©2011 their creators, unless otherwise noted.

Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135 • e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com Eight-issue subscriptions $60 U.S., $85 Canada, $107 elsewhere (in U.S. funds) Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to editorial offices.

Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Mike Esposito and Dr. Jerry G. Bails, founder of A/E

Gil Kane panel above from The Ring of the Nibelung – Book Two: The Valkyrie. Script by Roy Thomas, after Richard Wagner. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Art on preceding page: cover of AlterEgo [Vol. 1] #1 ©2011 Roy Thomas; on cover of Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #1: Green Lantern, Flash, Atom, Fury, & Jade TM & ©2011 DC Comics; SpiderMan, Thing, & Silver Surfer TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2011 Jerry Ordway. Thanks to Doc Boucher for the 1961 scan.

Characters and/or art in background Alter Ego covers TM & ©2011 the respective copyright holders.

Special Thanks to: Christian Voltar Alcala, Heidi Amash, Michael Ambrose, Ger Apeldoorn, Mark Arnold, Michael Aushenker, Dick Ayers, Rodrigo Baeza, Bob Bailey, Jean Bails, Pat Bastienne, Alberto Becattini, Allen Bellman, John Benson, Doc Boucher, Dwight Boyd, Jerry K. Boyd, Lee Boyette, Christopher Boyko, Frank Brunner, Bernie Bubnis, Rich Buckler, Mike Burkey, Sal Buscema, Nick Caputo, Michael Christie, Gene Colan, Ernie Colón & Ruth Ashby, Gerry Conway, Jon B. Cooke, Chet Cox, Les Daniels, Teresa R. Davidson, Michaël Dewally, Tony DeZuniga, Roger Dicken, Frode Dreier, Michael & Amy Dunne, Jim Engel, Steve Englehart, Michael Eury & Rose Rummel-Eury, Jon R. Evans, Jim Fern, Shane Foley, Richard Fowlks, Todd Franklin, Janet Gilbert, Dick Giordano, Glen David Gold, Luz Gonzales, Michael Grabois, Lawrence P. Guidry, Paul Gulacy, George Hagenauer, Jennifer Hamerlinck, Keith Hammond, John C. Haufe, Jr., Lee Hester, Jerry Hillegas, Rick Hoberg, Bernie Hogya, Dr. M. Thomas Inge, Tony Isabella, Arvell Jones, Richard Kyle, Matt Lage, Stan Lee, Steve Leialoha, Mark Lewis, Frank Lovece, Jim Ludwig, Richard Lupoff, Mike Machlan, Chris Malgrain, Bruce D. MacIntosh, Bernie McCarty, Brian K. Morris, Bill Morrison, John & Pam Morrow, Hoy Murphy, Mike Nielsen, Eric Nolen-Weathington, Jerry Ordway, Jack Oster, Steve Oswald, Matthew Peets, George Pérez, Gene Reed, Raymond H. Reithmeier, Trina Robbins, Peter Roe, John Romita, Bob Rozakis, Paul Sager, Randy Sargent, John Selegue, Marie Severin, Scott Shaw!, David Siegel, Keif Simon, Joe Sinnott, J. David Spurlock, Michael Stewart, Desha Swayze, Marc & June Swayze, Jeff Taylor, Dann Thomas, Maggie Thompson, Dr. Michael J. Vassallo, Pete Von Sholly, Alan Waite, Lynn Walker, Chris Wallace, Matthew Wandersi, Hames Ware, Ted White, Derek Wilson, Marv Wolfman, Alex Wright

Vol. 3, No. 100 / March 2011 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Proofreader Rob Smentek

Cover Artist Rich Buckler (pencils) & Jerry Ordway (inks)

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko On Our Cover: Some years back, Ye Editor commissioned artist Rich Buckler to re-pencil the magnificent interior “cover” featuring the 1941 Justice-Society of America (plus soon-to-be-member Wonder Woman) that he’d drawn for the All-Star Squadron Preview in Justice League of America #193 (Sept. 1981).

This time, the art would be inked by Jerry Ordway, who’d embellished the 14-page introductory tale that had followed it—while the incongruous non-JSAer Shining Knight would be replaced, fittingly, by Starman. It’s been one of the treasures of Roy’s personal collection ever since. [JSA TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Above: For this 100th issue, Shane Foley depicted our “maskots” Alter Ego and Captain Ego—and RT himself, garbed like the late-’30s Crimson Avenger—in an artful homage to Jerry Ordway’s cover for Infinity, Inc. #10 (Jan. 1985)— and ultimately to Irwin Hasen’s for AllStar Comics #37 (Oct.-Nov. 1947).

Thanks a zillion, Shane—but why The Crimson Avenger? Roy always saw himself as more the Atom type! Oh, and thanks to Randy Sargent for the coloring. [Alter Ego TM & ©2011 Roy & Dann Thomas – costume designed by Ron Harris; Captain Ego TM & ©2011 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly – created by Biljo White; other art elements ©2011 Shane Foley.]

Contents Writer/Editorial: The First Hundred Issues Are The Hardest! . . . 4 “I Want To Do It All Again! ” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Roy Thomas talks about the 1980s at DC Comics—Schwartz, warts, and all.

Interlude I: The Wright Stuff—1940s Version . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 Pulsating Golden Age pin-ups by our own dazzlin’ doctor of digitalization, Alex Wright.

Interlude II: Stretching A Point . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 RT’s 1964 spec DC script—thrillingly illustrated by Larry Guidry & Shane Foley.

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 A 1965/2011 look backward at the origins of Jerry Bails’ epoch-making 1961 fanzine.

The Missourian Chronicles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84 Brief tributes to Alter Ego and (ulp!) to its ebullient editor, courtesy of Jerry K. Boyd.

“A Lot Of These Guys Have Great Stories To Tell!”. . . . . . . 106 Bruce D. MacIntosh turns the tables on A/E ace interviewer Jim Amash.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!: Michael T. – The Fanzine Years! . . 113 The gregarious Mr. Gilbert serves as tour guide to artifacts of his early life and career.

A Tribute To Mike Esposito. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 124 Comic Fandom Archive: The 1964 Super Hero Calendar . . 125 Bill Schelly & Bernie Bubnis & one of the great early fandom projects.

re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . 133 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #159 . . . . . . . . . . . . 143 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze, Captain Marvel, the All-Star Squadron—and Spider-Man?

writer/editorial

4

The First Hundred Issues Are The Hardest!

W

elcome to Alter Ego: Centennial, a.k.a. the 100th issue of Alter Ego, Vol. 3!

Or, if you count (a) the five truncated “issues” of Vol. 2 that appeared as part of Comic Book Artist in 1998-99, (b) the eleven issues of “Vol. 1” published between 1961 and 1978, and even (c) the four issues of the 1986 First Comics series starring a masked super-hero named Alter Ego, as currently being reprinted by Heroic Publishing in a 25th-anniversary edition (see p. 72)—well, then, make that the 120th issue!

Any way you slice it, that’s a fair number of issues—if hardly a record—for a comics “fanzine,” even if we’ve deliberately stretched the meaning of that word a bit in this incarnation.

All 120 issues, of course, have one thing in common—and that, with all due blushing, is Yours Truly.

The 50th anniversary of AlterEgo [Vol. 1] #1…

And the present writer’s sojourn as a scripter and editor at DC Comics during the 1980s.

Okay, so that last is not exactly an inevitability. Still, it made sense to Jim Amash and me to spotlight an A/E co-founder’s decade at the company whose Justice League of America title (and ultimately its 194051 All-Star Comics) were the primary reason Jerry launched A/E in the first place. But that interview, lengthy as it is—and even though anecdotes re my 1980s work for Pacific, First, Heroic, TSR, et al., will mostly have to wait for another day—makes up only one-third of this issue.

Thanks to John Morrow of TwoMorrows Publishing, who decided that this 100th issue we’ve produced together should be a double-size spectacular, we also had room to include a number of other special items:

As a college senior, I was invited by my new correspondent Dr. Jerry G. Bails, a young assistant professor at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan, to be the sole other contributor to the first issue of the comic book fanzine he had recently decided to produce. He christened it AlterEgo, complete with hyphen, and in #1 (postmarked and mailed out at the end of March ’61) generously listed me as “co-editor.” Well, actually, I did eventually become the only person to contribute material to every single one of those 120 issues. (I kept that streak going by the skin of my teeth in Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #5 in 1963, though, when two-issue editor/publisher Ronn Foss simply printed a Bestest League pin-up I’d sent him. Of course, at the time, I had no idea I was working on a “streak.”)

“The Alter Ego Story”—an account of the original fanzine’s genesis which I wrote in 1965 (it’s on view in the still-available book Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine, so I’ve sprinkled this issue’s version with new notes to put the whole thing in some kind of perspective)…

As for that March 1961 date: yes, it’s merely a serendipitous coincidence (though an amazing one!) that this 100th issue of A/E, Vol. 3, comes out exactly 50 years to the month since Jerry’s V1#1 hit the U.S. mails. Cue Twilight Zone music!

An interview done with instead of by A/E ace interviewer (and coassociate editor) Jim Amash…

The entire contents of Alter-Ego [Vol. 1] #1, which haven’t been fully reprinted since the early ’60s…

“Longarm of the Law”—a permutation of the script that, if editor Julius Schwartz had given it a thumbs-up in 1964, would’ve become the very first comic book story of mine published by DC or anybody else…

Michael T. Gilbert’s lively account of his own fanzine days…

That gave us all the excuse we needed to make this a triple-threat of an issue, celebrating:

P.C. Hamerlinck’s showcasing of the Captain Marvel connection in my All-Star Squadron comic and some Fawcett “spider men,” as well as his own interview with artist Marc Swayze…

The 100th issue of Alter Ego, Vol. 3…

Alex Wright’s salute to the pulchritudinous pin-ups of the 1940s, featuring some of DC’s most pneumatic super-heroines…

Co-associate editor Bill Schelly’s chat with early fan Bernie Bubnis and a re-presenting of The 1964 Super Hero Calendar, one of the landmark fan-projects of its day…

The Second Time Around (Top of page:) Roy T., in a photo taken in 2007 by his TV producer pal Alan Waite at the Hollywood home of some mutual acquaintances—plus (left) Joe Kubert’s cover for Alter Ego, Vol. 2, #1 (Spring 1998), repro’d from an illustration done for Bill Schelly. Oh, and in the photo—dig the customized Alter Ego watch Dann got Roy as a gift! [Hawkman TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

And, last but not least, A/E contributor Jerry K. Boyd’s assemblage of tributes to the 50-year, 100+-issue history of Alter Ego. All in all, we were lucky to be able to shoehorn all these goodies into a mere 160 pages—and to cover three past issues of A/E in our catch-up letters section, to boot.

A word about the Thomas interview that begins on p. 4: When Jim and I finished it, I realized I’d given voice to a greater number of negative feelings about my 1980s tenure at DC than I had in A/E #50 and #70 about my initial 15 years at Marvel. But, unless I planned to disclaim my own memories, they needed to stay in. For me at DC in the ’80s,

writer/editorial

5

The Bald Ego alas, the bad vibes were intermingled with the good almost from the start, as you’ll see.

Still, as I insist several times in the course of the interview, there was far more good than bad, and I can scarcely regret an era that gave me the opportunity to write adventures of the Justice Society of America, the AllStar Squadron, Infinity, Inc., The Young All-Stars, Captain Carrot & His Amazing Zoo Crew, the secret origins of many of DC’s Golden Age heroes, detective/human lightning-bolt Jonni Thunder, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, the Teutonic gods and heroes, Arak, Son of Thunder, and Valda the Iron Maiden—not to mention Mr. Mind and Hoppy the Marvel Bunny. Frankly, for me, the experience of writing and editing AllStar Squadron alone would’ve made those years worth twice as much tsuris!

As for the names I’ve named, in terms of a couple of folks who are clearly not my favorite memories of my DC decade—well, A/E’s letters section is open late for alternative viewpoints. And for my response to same.

Will the second 100 issues of A/E really be easier to produce than the first?

This great (and even funny!) Alter Ego parody cover by Pete Von Sholly appeared in his 2006 TwoMorrows special Comic Book Nerd #1. [Characters TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

In fact, look me up at the 2011 San Diego Comic-Con, which will celebrate 50 years of comics fandom (since Alter-Ego #1 and Don & Maggie Thompson’s April 1961 Comic Art #1)—and, with luck, I should be able to autograph your copy of issue #103!

Bestest,

Will there ever be a 200th issue, in this day of the increasing digitalization of all things at the expense of printed books and magazines?

We’ll just have to wait and see, won’t we?

John Morrow surprised me, last summer, by telling me that several folks came up to the TwoMorrows booth at the San Diego Comic-Con and asked him if I intended to discontinue Alter Ego with #100… to consider, in short, my job of helping to record comics history finished and done.

But this issue is only a milestone, not a gravestone.

P.S.: Thanks once again—most inadequately—to co-associate editors Bill Schelly and Jim Amash, “Comic Crypt” editor Michael T. Gilbert, and FCA editor P.C. Hamerlinck—and to co-publisher/consulting editor John Morrow—for all their many contributions to the past 100 issues; and to all those who donated their time, talents, scans, and photocopies.

P.P.S.: A special, end-of-editorial thank-you to Chris Day, who has been in charge of layouts and putting A/E together for ten years now, and who has become all but indispensable to this mag. If Chris hadn’t existed, I’m not sure John Morrow and I would’ve been able to invent him!

COMING IN MAY 2011

#

101

Hunting VICTOR FOX! We Know All About Blue Beetle & Phantom Lady—But What About The Mysterious Would-Be Mogul Who Founded FOX COMICS? • Fabulous new cover by DAVID WILLIAMS (Spider-Man, et al.) featuring Fox’s finest!

• “The Education of Victor Fox” by RICHARD KYLE—one of the greatest comics histories to come out of 1960s fandom, and still timely—with rare art & artifacts by JACK KIRBY • JOE SIMON • LOU FINE • MATT BAKER • GEORGE TUSKA • FLETCHER HANKS • ALEX BLUM • JACK KAMEN, & many others!

• “Superman vs. Wonder Man – 1939!” KEN QUATTRO reveals the startling testimony in the first super-hero lawsuit ever—starring WILL EISNER • JERRY SIEGEL • HARRY DONENFELD • JERRY IGER • M.C. GAINES • SHELDON MAYER—& yes, VICTOR FOX! • “The Golden Age of JACK MENDELSOHN”—the veteran artist and animator’s days at DC, Quality, Standard, Dell, Archie, Ziff-Davis, et al.—interview by JIM AMASH! • MICHAEL T. GILBERT on ABE KANEGSON, the man who lettered EISNER’s Spirit—BILL SCHELLY talks with 1960s fan-artist RUDI FRANKE (part 2)—FCA with MARC & JUNE SWAYZE and the Captain Marvel/Thor connection—& MORE!!

Edited by ROY THOMAS TM & ©2011 DC Comics; ers.

Blue Beetle & Phantom Lady the respective copyright hold other heroes TM & ©2011

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Eight issues in the US: $60 Standard, $80 First Class (Canada: $85, Elsewhere: $107 Surface, $155 Airmail).

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6

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

ROY THOMAS Talks About The 1980s at DC Comics— Schwartz, Warts, And All! Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

T

he first decade and a half of Roy Thomas’ comic book career was spent writing and editing for Marvel, as we discussed in interviews in A/E #50 & 70. For this anniversary issue, we felt it was time to step into the 1980s and see, from Roy’s perspective, what it was like working for DC Comics on features such as Wonder Woman, All-Star Squadron, Infinity, Inc., Young All-Stars, Arak/Son of Thunder, Shazam! The New Beginning, Secret Origins, and Captain Carrot, among other titles. One might think scribing stories of his childhood favorites plus a bunch of newly minted heroes would be a pure blessing for any writer, but there were a number of bumps in the road, which Roy doesn’t shy away from discussing. While some fans may prefer Roy’s previous Marvel work, I find his DC work to be just as interesting and possibly more varied in style and substance than the work that brought him to a prominent position in the four-color world of comics.

Not a bad way to spend a decade, huh? —Jim.

“Grand Gestures” JIM AMASH: You left Marvel for DC in 1980. How did you initiate contact with DC? ROY THOMAS: I didn’t. I’d been in contact, off and on. Carmine [Infantino, DC publisher] had talked to me about my coming over to DC around the time I left the editor-in-chief job at Marvel in ’74, and even before that, but I really wanted to stay at Marvel, partly out of loyalty to Stan [Lee]. Around the turn of ’76, I met [new DC publisher] Jenette Kahn. We even dated a couple of times, since by then I was separated from [my first wife] Jeanie for the final time. I met Jenette through [inker/DC assistant art director] Vinnie Colletta—who else?

She and one or two others at DC made it plain that, if I wasn’t happy at Marvel—and they knew that increasingly I wasn’t, after Jim Shooter became editor—I could have a job at DC. I couldn’t be a writer/editor there, since they didn’t have that position then, but I was assured I’d have

All-Star Squadroom Roy in the 1980s, conducting historical research for All-Star Squadron in Winston Churchill’s underground London bunker from World War II days—juxtaposed with the Rich Buckler-penciled, Dick Giordano-inked cover of All-Star Squadron #1 (Sept. 1981), RT’s personal favorite among covers drawn for comics he wrote at DC—or anywhere else!

Thanks to Gene Reed for the scan; photo by Dann Thomas. [Cover ©2011 DC Comics.]

something close to editorial authority over the scripts I wrote. So when I had my final blow-up with Shooter, I phoned Paul Levitz—he was editorial coordinator then—and told him I wanted to leave Marvel, since I felt Shooter had dealt less than honorably with me with regard to contract negotiations, something I took very personally and very hard. Paul said, “Fine,” and that was that. I promptly informed Shooter I was leaving when my contract ran out later that year. I didn’t try to negotiate with Marvel.

Well, actually, [publisher] Stan and [president] Jim Galton had me drop by the Marvel offices to talk when I came to New York to meet with DC in the interim, but by then it was pretty much too late, since they hadn’t any real assurances to offer. What was done was done.

JA: How did it make you feel to have to give up being your own editor?

Because that changed everything for you, really.

THOMAS: It was being changed anyway, since part of the disagreement between Shooter and me was that I’d told him I wouldn’t sign another contract with Marvel unless it was another writer/editor contract.

[NOTE: See A/E #70 for Roy’s detailed account.] That was what I felt he’d been dishonest with me about—at the very least, in a Clintonesque

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

7

Now It Can Be Told!

During the final days of his Marvel contract in 1980, Roy did fudge just a little bit and secretly help out his busy buddy Gerry Conway by dialoguing the above two stories Gerry had plotted for DC Comics Presents #31 & #32 (March & April 1981). Roy’s memory is that editor Julius Schwartz (shown at the 1998 San Diego Comic-Con, with Roy standing behind him) didn’t know about the subterfuge. Hope you can read the art credits! Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2011 DC Comics.]

sense. I figured, if I’m not going to be an editor at Marvel, what the hell?—I might as well not be an editor at DC. Maybe it was time to seize the opportunity to work with the JSA and features like that. It’s not that I was all that wild about DC’s set-up. But [editor] Julie Schwartz, after all, had been my first real contact in the field—and I thought, well, recent Marvel émigré [writer] Marv Wolfman was doing okay there. So, I figured, after fifteen years at Marvel, I might as well exit while I had a little capital left, rather than let it be frittered away at Marvel over the next few years—assuming I’d have lasted that long, which I sincerely doubted.

JA: Did your DC contract have a length, or a quota of pages per month?

THOMAS: It was a three-year contract; it called for a certain number of pages each month, but I don’t recall exactly how many. My Marvel contract had called for 100 pages’ worth of writing a month, with some of that covered by editorial work I did. The DC contract guaranteed a similar amount of work; I don’t believe I lost much if any money in the switch, though I don’t believe I gained any, either. I ended up doing three books a month that were well over 20 pages apiece, plus some specials.

JA: You wrote The Fortress of Solitude.

THOMAS: That Solitude tabloid was one of the first things I did for DC. While I was still under contract to Marvel, I met with the triumvirate of Jenette, Paul, and Joe Orlando, who’d flown Dann and me to New York.

Jenette made a grand gesture: when Dann and I checked into our room at a nice hotel, it was filled with balloons. We were both amused and touched. But considerably few grand gestures were made at the meeting, and I was left dealing with just Joe after the first few minutes. Before she and Paul left, Jenette said to me, “I know you’d like to do something with the Justice Society.” The modern-day “JSA” series had recently been cancelled, so I said I’d prefer to do a World War II mutation of it, and that

was quickly agreed to. DC also wanted me to create a swordand-sorcery book, since the main two Conan titles had sold so well under me at Marvel. I also said I’d love to do “Captain Marvel,” but they weren’t interested in starting another Shazam! book right away; the feature had recently been discontinued, and besides, they still didn’t own those characters outright. They also nixed my suggestion that day of a Dr. Fate comic.

Meanwhile, DC had other writers—Bob Rozakis, Jim Starlin, Jack C. Harris—plot stories that I could dialogue as soon as I was free to legally do so. I didn’t ask them to do that; I didn’t even want them to do it. I didn’t like the idea that my first DC work would be stories on which I was only the second-listed of two writers, but if that’s what they wanted, I felt I shouldn’t object. Also, for the DC Comics Presents title Julie edited, I gave Gerry Conway my idea for a “Superman/Captain Marvel” story I really wanted to do, and Gerry fleshed it out and of course got plotting credit (and payment) for it [as issue #33]. They also had me writing a special or two the moment I legally could, most involving Superman.

Carmine always reminds me that at one stage he’d wanted me to come over to DC and handle all the “Superman” material… but in 1980 I told Jenette, Paul, and Joe that I didn’t want to work on either “Superman” or “Batman” on a regular basis, because there were other writers doing those characters. After all, I’d even given up writing Fantastic Four when The

8

Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Family Plots To ballyhoo Roy’s allegedly bankable moniker on its comics ASAP, DC had writers Marv Wolfman, Gerry Conway, Jack C. Harris, Bob Rozakis, and Jim Starlin plot stories that the new recruit could dialogue the minute he was legally able to. (Clockwise from top left, the splashes of:) Green Lantern #138 (March ’81), the first of two-in-a-row Wolfman-plotted issues that Marv may well have intended to dialogue himself but then got too busy… DC Comics Presents #33 (May 1981)…

The Superman Family #207 (May/June ’81)… Batman #336 (June ’81)… and DC Comics Presents #37 (Sept. ’81), publication of the latter clearly having been delayed by several months. The “Superman/Captain Marvel” tale was the only one whose storyline was Roy’s idea: the Man of Steel and the World’s Mightiest Mortal discover they’ve switched bodies, due to a spell cast by Mr. Mxyztplk. Thanks to Michael Grabois, Gene Reed, Jim Ludwig, & Bob Bailey for the scans, on which the artist and editor credits should be readable. [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

9

“I Liked The Idea Of Writing Wonder Woman” JA: I remember Gene Colan saying he took Wonder Woman because they said, “This is going to be a big project. We’re really going to build up the character. This will be a high-profile thing for you.” Then he discovered it wasn’t.

THOMAS: I think DC gave it a reasonably high profile at first. I liked the idea of writing Wonder Woman, but not the awkward way it came about.

I wrote Legion of Super-Heroes first—another title I’d never read and didn’t want to write, but was put on because of my success with teams like The Avengers—and I was happy to get off that to write Wonder Woman, which had been just limping along for decades. Gerry Conway was then writing it; and he and I were just starting to write movie screenplays together. We’d hung around together for years, plotted different things together, and were good friends.

“The Triple Pillar Of The World” In the summer of 1980, when Roy met with DC’s ruling triumvirate during his first trip back to New York after signing his first contract with the company, the above quotation from Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar could perhaps have been applied to (left to right) publisher Jenette Kahn, managing editor Joe Orlando, and editorial coordinator Paul Levitz. Thanks to Bob Rozakis for the photos, both taken at a DC editorial “retreat” in 1985.

Thing—my favorite Marvel super-hero—got his own book, Marvel Twoin-One. I hadn’t been interested in having to coordinate with other writers about The Thing, and I didn’t want to get into that position at DC. Besides, I didn’t have any stories that I particularly wanted to write with Superman or Batman. They’re great characters, but I didn’t want to script them… any more than at Marvel I wanted to write Spider-Man. Which is ironic, since now I’ve worked on the Spider-Man newspaper strip for eleven years, and enjoy it quite a bit. Of course, that’s largely because I’m working with and for Stan.

Gerry’d been bugging DC to beef up Wonder Woman. He wanted to get a different artist, he wanted to do this, he wanted to do that; but they kept patting him on the head and telling him to just keep writing. Finally, they change the artist—but they also boot Gerry off the book and give it to me! I felt bad about it, but Gerry felt I should take it, so I did. I thought, “Wow, this is great! Gene and I are gonna do Wonder Woman!”

Even if Gene didn’t really want to do it—and even though drawing consistent, clear costumes wasn’t his strength—he drew beautiful women, he drew good action, his work had a real integrity—and, in spite of not being that enthusiastic about the book, he did a truly good job on it. Of course, there was the little matter that, in our very first story, Jenette got

Anyway, naturally, one of the first things DC gave me was the Superman/Fortress of Solitude tabloid. Actually, that turned out to be a lot of fun, because in the course of the story I was to bring together all the facts about the Fortress… plus I got to work with [artist] Ross Andru, always a pleasure. [Then-editor] Jack C. Harris asked me to write a special World’s Finest issue tying together all the various origins of the Superman/Batman team over the years. I guess I was being looked on as somebody who’d make sense of DC’s history. I really enjoyed ironing out all the inconsistencies in the various origins of the Superman-Batman team—and there were several of them—and in stories like the ones where Superboy met Robin, and where young Bruce Wayne became Flying Fox. I tied it all in with the Superman radio show, the famous “Atom Man” storyline from 1945. And I used the very first Superman-Batman meeting ever—which also took place on the radio—as the origin of the Earth-Two Superman-Batman team. I had fun weaving all those things together, and working with Rich Buckler, a favorite collaborator of mine.

But then, DC also stuck me with the Batman book as a regular assignment—one I definitely did not want! [mutual chuckling] It helped that Gene Colan and José Garcia-López penciled the three “Batman” stories I worked on. Still, I wound up only plotting those three yarns, including one with the credit “Gerry Conway & Roy Thomas, writers,” which made some readers figure Gerry had plotted it and I’d dialogued it, when it was the other way around—and then somehow, I forget how, I managed to get off Batman. I suspect Jenette had thought that, when I’d said I didn’t want to do “Batman” or “Superman,” I didn’t really mean it.

I’d meant it!

The only one of DC’s “Big Three” I’d have liked to write was Wonder Woman. That’s because she was only in one book, as opposed to several, not counting Justice League.

In My Solitude Splash page of the 64-page adventure from the tabloid-size Superman and His Incredible Fortress of Solitude (Summer 1981), a.k.a. DC Special Series, Vol. 5, #26. The Andru/Tanghal credits should be legible; Len Wein’s editorial byline was on the inside front cover. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Yea, Team!

(Top row:) A triptych of images from World’s Finest Comics #271 (Sept. 1981), wherein Roy & Rich Buckler revisited the various origins of the Superman/Batman team in the context of a new 48-page story. On the splash, Clark Kent dreams of Superman being smashed by The Atoman—a super-villain garbed like the “Powerman” robot in World’s Finest #94 (May-June 1958). Inks by Frank McLaughlin.

The other two scenes above—Superman’s first encounter with Robin (before the Last Son of Krypton met Batman) and the birth of The Atoman—were taken from classic episodes of The Adventures of Superman radio show. The Man of Steel first teamed with Batman and Robin on radio (after he found Robin unconscious in that rowboat on Sept. 5, 1945)—and The Atom Man (the actual vintage spelling) was a kryptonitepowered bad-guy who battled our hero from Oct.-Dec. ’45. Roy made the former the official origin of the Superman/Batman team of Earth-Two… although, since he had the pair and Robin interacting on Dec. 6, 1941, in the All-Star Squadron Preview on sale that same month, that aspect of the story swiftly got negated. But it sure was fun to do! Thanks to Jim Ludwig, Gene Reed, & Michael Grabois. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Hitch A Ride On The Snow-Mole-bile!

(Above:) For Batman #337 (July ’81), whose José Garcia-López/ Steve Mitchell splash panel is depicted, Roy conceived a Jack Frost/Icicle/Iceman-style villain called The Snowman. But although he contributed the story’s full plot, he was credited only with a “plot assist.” Thanks to Michael Grabois & Jim Ludwig for the scan.

(Right:) DC pushed Batman #340 (Oct. ’81) as Gene Colan’s debut as a DC artist after he signed a three-year contract—conveniently forgetting all the National/DC comics he’d drawn in the ’50s & ’60s (Hopalong Cassidy, war, romance, et al.). The front page of DC Coming Attractions #46 (July ’81), a 4-page publication sent to retailers/comics shops and also handed out there to customers, featured Jim Aparo’s cover art for Batman #340 and an interior page penciled by Colan. The published cover would boast that it was “reuniting the talents of Roy Thomas & Gene Colan”—but Roy only plotted the story, getting Gerry to dialogue it; the splash page credits simply read: “Gerry Conway & Roy Thomas – writers.” See p. 104 of this A/E issue for another Colan-penciled panel from this tale, and for the skinny on The Mole! All Roy cared about was—this became his last “Batman” solo story—ever! [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

11

I Am Legion—But Not For Long!

Roy’s stay on The Legion of Super-Heroes was short and reasonably sweet. Gerry Conway plotted and RT dialogued #277-278… Roy was full writer on #279-280… then he supplied the plots of #281-282 for Paul Levitz, who proceeded to make the Legion his own. Splash from Legion #280 (Oct. 1981) by Jim Janes & Bruce Patterson; with thanks to Jerry Hillegas. [©2011 DC Comics.]

someone outside the company to replace Wonder Woman’s eagle symbol with a stylized “W.” JA: Which I never liked.

THOMAS: You and me both! That was in Gene’s and my 16-page story that was inserted into the middle of DC Comics Presents. I suggested to Jenette, “Why don’t you turn the top of the ‘W’ into an eagle’s head, rather than have it be just a letter?” I got patted on the head just like Gerry had: “Oh, we know best.” I heard—I don’t know if it’s true or not—that DC soon got sued by some hockey team called the Wings because the new Wonder Woman “W” was virtually identical to the hockey team’s preexisting one. Worse yet, the settlement allowed DC to go on using that “W”! Oh, well, it’s better-looking than the costume they gave her recently.

From the very beginning, I kept making these impertinent suggestions.

I tried to convince them to change the name “DC.” I said, “Forget about ‘Detective Comics.’ Comic readers don’t care about detectives. Let ‘DC’ stand for ‘Dynamic Comics.’ Then it’d be ‘Marvel vs. Dynamic’ instead of ‘Marvel vs. DC.’” Once again, a pat on the head.

Earlier, they had spent a lot of money designing a new DC logo which basically consisted of tilting the old one 45 degrees. Money they could’ve paid out in page rates or bonuses went to outside people’s designs, to consultants. I liked Jenette, but she loved to bring in “experts” from outside the field to do things, and I think sometimes that was just a waste.

JA: It was [graphic designer] Milton Glaser who designed that new DC logo.

THOMAS: I’ll bet he was paid a lot more than some staffer would’ve been paid for doing the same thing. Any staffer could’ve tilted it 45 degrees— even 50 or 60.

JA: [Artist] Alex Toth hated that logo; he complained bitterly to me how DC paid over 25 grand for it.

THOMAS: You can’t blame Glaser. He had to keep the basic look of the DC symbol, so he could only do so much. But anyway, back to Wonder Woman: DC swiftly proceeded to cut Gene and me off at the knees. We did that insert and one issue [#288]. Then, on our second full issue, DC

“W” Is For “What The—?”

The interior “cover” of the 16-page Wonder Woman Preview inserted into DC Comics Presents #41 (Jan. 1982), to introduce the new creative team of Thomas & Colan, as inked by Romeo Tanghal—plus the panels therein in which Diana donned a new top, on which a presumably more trademarkable “W” replaced the eagle that had adorned her ample chest since 1941. Thanks to Lynn Walker & Jim Ludwig. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Everybody’s Here But George Clooney!

When Roy read A/E’s sister mag Back Issue! #41 (July 2010), containing Dewey Cassell’s study of the Thomas/Colan Wonder Woman, he was startled to behold a penciled splash for #288 (Feb. 1982) that didn’t match the one in the printed issue! Roy’s synopsis had called for that splash to strongly echo the one Gene had drawn for his very first “Iron Man” story, in Tales of Suspense #73 (Jan. ’66)—coincidentally, also the first super-hero story Roy had dialogued for Marvel. Gene’s initial WW splash didn’t display a full-figure shot of the Amazon, so Roy must’ve persuaded editor Len Wein to have Gene redraw it. The second version filled the bill perfectly; Ye Ed hopes and assumes Gene was paid for both! Thanks to Richard Fowlks & Mike Nielsen for the Wonder Woman art, and to Barry Pearl for the splash from TOS #73.

[DC pages ©2011 DC Comics; Marvel page ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

suddenly tosses a “Huntress” feature, written by Paul Levitz, in the back of the book—I think it’d been going on before, but this was supposed to be a big push on Wonder Woman, remember. So right away we don’t have a full book, and this really teed me off. I mean, nothing against Paul, and The Huntress was a good character—but I felt, if she can’t stand on her own in a book, forget about her. Don’t chop up the only book Wonder Woman has in order to give her a series! I complained. Another pat on the head.

able to do about half the work I should have on Wonder Woman by now.”

So after a few, I think, fairly well-crafted stories, especially the one with The Silver Swan, and just as we were getting started with the Commander Video storyline, I left that book in protest, and Dan Mishkin took over the writing. Gene soon left, too.

We’d only done a few issues that way when Paul plotted this threeissue story for the entire book that was less a “Wonder Woman” story than a “Let’s use every heroine in the DC stable” story: Power Girl, Huntress, Black Canary, Supergirl, Zatanna, everybody! It wasn’t a bad story, but I felt it belonged in a separate mini-series, not in Wonder Woman. All I did was dialogue it. This interrupted Gene’s and my flow for three months, right after we’d got started. Really hurt our momentum. And even when it was over, there was still the “Huntress” backup.

I’ll admit I was happy when they asked me to come back a few months later to write Wonder Woman #300. I worked with Dann on the plotting and even on the dialogue; she became the first female ever to have a scripting byline on a “Wonder Woman” story, and together we introduced the Earth-Two Wonder Woman’s daughter—who’d soon become Fury in Infinity, Inc.—and we gave an origin to the 1970s Simon & Kirby Sandman. But otherwise I was done with the Wonder Woman book. The funny thing is, a dialogue balloon on the cover of #288, which had heralded our new team, had proclaimed, “And this time nothing will stop her!” But the fact is that Gene and I were never really allowed to get started!

So, after a few issues with “The Huntress” on top of the “all-girl orchestra” issues, I said, “This isn’t what I signed up for. I’ve only been

Please understand—it’s not that I feel Paul, Jenette, or anybody else was out to sabotage Gene’s and my stint on Wonder Woman. I just think

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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some decisions were made that undercut us, and didn’t help Wonder Woman. DC had its own agenda, and right from the start, it wasn’t a particularly good fit with my own. Or maybe I wasn’t a good fit for it.

JA: Colan draws a couple of covers, then there are no Colan covers on Wonder Woman, either.

Memories Light The Corners Of Our Mind The Rascally One looks back fondly on many aspects of his Wonder Woman stint with Gene the Dean, including (a) their co-creation in #288 of The Silver Swan (and her “ugly duckling” alter ego); (b) Steve Trevor briefly becoming the super-powered Captain Wonder in #289 (March ’82), sporting Diana’s abandoned eagle sigil; and (c) the Sandman sequences in #300 (Feb. ’83), which harkened back to the Thomas/Colan Dr. Strange of the late ’60s. Inks on #288 by Romeo Tanghal, on #289’s cover by Dick Giordano, and on #300 by Frank McLaughlin.

Danette/Dann Thomas covertly co-plotted all three, and openly coscripted #300. Thanks to Jim Ludwig & Lynn Walker. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Gene himself is seen below as a printout of digital wallpaper created by cartoonist Jim Engel, who depicts the artist with four of his Marvel covers—two for comics he drew with Stan Lee, two for scripts by Roy. [Marvel art ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

THOMAS: I love Gene’s work, but sometimes his covers weren’t as clear as publishers and editors liked.

On the other hand, I’d have had Gene do the covers. I mean, if he’s supposed to sell the book with his inside art, people will probably like his covers. At Marvel in the ’70s I’d had Gil Kane and others do a lot of covers because it was convenient; but I don’t recall any proof that the books necessarily sold better when Gene didn’t do the covers. But my main objection was, DC wouldn’t even leave us alone inside the book.

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

“Repent, King Kull!” Said The Marvel Bunny The splash and a climactic page from the RT-written DC Comics Presents #34 (June 1981). This second chapter of this two-issue tale had everything: Superman, The Marvel Family, Capt. Marvel Bunny, King Kull, Mr. Mxyztplk, Mr. Mind—even a title that, for no particular reason, homaged that of a famous science-fiction story by Harlan Ellison. Pencils by Rich Buckler, inks by Dick Giordano; see pp. 21 & 17 for photos of the artists. DCCP #33-34 are a particularly fond memory of Roy’s of his years at DC. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2011 DC Comics.]

“They Let Me Write The Stories I Wanted To Write” JA: So basically, you had close to no editorial input, I’m assuming.

THOMAS: Well, they let me write the stories I wanted to write, and that was important! I had to get approval in advance, but only via short conversations over the phone. There was none of the stuff that I’d have hated if I’d been in New York, working closely with Julie Schwartz and the older editors. I would’ve really hated having to come in to the office like Gardner Fox used to and plot out stories in detail with Julie, so that you wound up with this polyglot story, half yours and half the editor’s. That method produced a lot of good comics—I’d be the last to deny it—but it wasn’t anything I was interested in at that stage, admire Julie though I did and still do.

Most of the time, my editors didn’t change a word of my scripts. That’s my kind of editor. That was close to what I’d tried to do when I was Marvel’s editor. If I had to change a lot of a writer’s plot or dialogue, I felt I had the wrong writer.

I remember that, very early on, I had a few words—though polite ones—with Julie when he let his assistant, Nelson Bridwell, remove a couple of balloons at one point in DC Comics Presents #34, the issue that reintroduced the Marvel Bunny. Nelson’s change messed up a set-up I’d

written. I had Superman saying in one panel, “You keep asking that!”— but Nelson had removed the earlier exchange where Captain Marvel had first spoken his line, just keeping the “You keep asking that!” line, which now didn’t make sense. I only learned this when I saw the printed issue.

Nothing personal against Nelson, whom I liked and respected for his considerable talents, but I told Julie at the time, “I don’t mind a little editing—but I do mind bad editing.” But then, what editor, myself included, ever thought he did bad editing?

JA: You were writing Marvel method, weren’t you?

THOMAS: Yeah, a lot of people were back in those days. Marv, Len...

JA: Well, that’s not the public perception. For a long time, DC editors would say, “We do full scripts at DC and Marvel does the Marvel Method.”

THOMAS: Things were changing by then, because of guys like Len Wein and Gerry Conway and Marv Wolfman, even before me. Once you got writers going back and forth between Marvel and DC, plus some artists who’d gotten used to the “Marvel Method” and didn’t want to go back to working from a full script, you had a sort of revolution, or at least an evolution. Obviously, that hadn’t been true with old-line writers like Jack Miller on “Deadman” and so forth, and that had produced some good comics, too. It’s not the method: it’s the people. Though I still think—and looking at today’s comics makes me believe it even more—that the

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

method Stan Lee pioneered produced better comics by allowing the pencilers to pace out the storytelling.

JA: I’m sure Murray Boltinoff, who was still there in the ‘80s, wasn’t working that way.

THOMAS: Probably lucky for me that I never had to work with Boltinoff.

In the end, I worked pretty well with Julie. I have to say that Julie was pretty adaptable, when you consider he’d been immersed in DC’s theeditor-as-God system since 1944. And now he’s working increasingly with people who didn’t want to work in that style and who had enough clout that he realized it wasn’t smart for him to force them to do so. The first full story I did for him was that DC Comics Presents with Superman and Captain Marvel—Gerry’s plotting for part one, but my concept—the two heroes discovering they’ve switched bodies. That two-parter came out pretty much as if I had plotted it all. Julie accepted that he didn’t have much real input on a story like that.

JA: Your not being in New York probably contributed to problems you might’ve had.

THOMAS: My living in L.A. was both good and bad for me. It helped me because I’d wanted to keep a certain distance from the day-to-day world of comics ever since I’d left the Marvel editor-in-chief job in 1974, before I moved out West.

But it also hurt me at DC, because I was never around the way Marv and Len were, since they lived in the East a while longer. I was never

15

really a part of the DC office scene. And I think that, combined with the things I was allowed to do, the projects, the relative freedom, etc.—I believe there was a certain amount of resentment among the DC staff, below the level of Jenette, Joe, and Paul. I think there were people at DC who, once the things I did didn’t sell as well as we’d all hoped, were very happy to see that. Need I add the parallel with reported staff views of Jack Kirby, a decade earlier? DC always had a lot of politics going on.

“An American Indian In King Charlemagne’s Court” JA: One of the first books you started was All-Star Squadron. I’m trying to figure out which came first, it or Arak/Son of Thunder.

THOMAS: All-Star and Arak had been started around the same time.

They were both advertised in the same month in DC’s house publication that was sent to comics shops and had the same cover date. I can’t remember which mag came out first, though.

JA: Let’s do Arak first, because you haven’t said much about that in past interviews or articles. DC wants you to do sword-and-sorcery, so you do something like Conan, but not too something like Conan.

THOMAS: My original idea was one that it’s probably best I didn’t pursue. I was going to suggest to DC—maybe I did suggest, at one point— that we license another Robert E. Howard hero, maybe Cormac Mac Art. The Cormac stories take place around 500 A.D., in the Dark Ages. In retrospect, I’m not sure that would’ve worked ideally, because there were only a handful of Cormac stories, plus we couldn’t have had a lot of Hyborian-Age-style “shining cities” in a more history-based world, since we know there weren’t a lot of shining cities back then. Even Rome was pretty much run-down in that era, and London and Paris were still just towns.

And then my wife Dann—well, actually, we weren’t married till May of ’81—my fiancée, or partner, or whatever you want to call her; and she was still “Danette” then, not legally changing her first name till a year or so later—she had this notion. She liked the Dark Ages part of my idea… because, if you set a sword-and-sorcery series in historic times and you set it much later than that, maybe Medieval times or the Renaissance, it’s harder to accept the idea of real magic as a part of that world. So she came up with this idea about “an American Indian who discovers Europe.” I really sparked to that.

Besides, we could own a piece of a new character, which we couldn’t have done with a Howard hero.

Between Arak And A Hard Place The image above was the starting point of the concept of the DC sword-andsorcery title—but it was the brainchild of Danette Couto (the future Dann Thomas), not of Roy or any artist: an American Indian youth, adrift in a canoe far out in the Atlantic, is found by Vikings who have been blown, as the Northmen would say in the comic, “far west of any place sane men should be!” Pencils by Ernie Colón, inks by Tony DeZuniga, from Arak/Son of Thunder #1 (Sept. 1981). Incidentally, the foregoing italicized wording, complete with the slash, is how the comic’s title was written in the indicia, so that’s how we’ve transcribed it for this interview. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Dann and Roy are depicted, above right, in an early-’80s snapshot, with Roy sporting an Arak t-shirt (with a head shot drawn by Colón) that she’d made for him—while Ernie and wife Ruth Ashby can be seen in a photo sent by EC.

We set the series around 800 A.D., the age of Charlemagne and all the legends about that part of the so-called Dark Ages.

We’d start off with this image that Dann had of an American Indian boy adrift in a canoe out in the Atlantic, picked up

by Vikings who’d been blown out to sea. We came up with the notion of utilizing the very

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

“Roy Thomas Month” – May 1981 When Roy received a pension plan pay-off from Marvel in late 1980, after his contract expired, he and Dann decided to blow much of it on a May 3, 1981, wedding held at dawn at Griffith Observatory in L.A. (as detailed in A/E #58, on the occasion of the couple’s 25th anniversary). They’re seen above the night before the wedding, at a small party they hosted; photo taken by pal Alan Waite in front of original comic strip art from Prince Valiant and Conan the Barbarian. As it happened, May of ’81 was virtually “Roy Thomas month” at DC, as witness: The front page of DC Coming Attractions #54 (May 1981) heralded both AllStar Squadron and—Bloodwolf, Son of Thunder! By the time the 4-page publication was sent to comics shops, however, Bloodwolf had been rechristened Arak. JSA art for the All-Star Squadron Preview is by Rich Buckler (pencils) & Dick Giordano (inks)… the “Bloodwolf” pencils are by Ernie Colón. Far as we know, though, the latter drawing never actually appeared in any comic book. The text plugging the RT inserts in Justice League of America #193 and The Warlord #48 continued onto the next page. [©2011 DC Comics.]

first Viking raid—on the monastery at Lindisfarne in England in 793—as a pivotal moment. From there, Arak would go to the court of Charlemagne, on what’s now the border of France and Germany. The series was born as a combination of Conan and Prince Valiant, I guess.

Instead of this Scandinavian-style prince in King Arthur’s court, it would be “An American Indian in King Charlemagne’s Court.”

JA: Your editor was Dick Giordano, followed by Laurie Sutton. I really don’t know anything about her.

THOMAS: If my memory’s right, Dick was originally going be the editor of All-Star Squadron, and Len Wein of Arak, but their assignments got switched around before we really got going. Actually, we weren’t sure at first the hero would be called “Arak.” In fact, another name we thought up was actually announced in that DC comics-shop publication: Bloodwolf.

In the end I decided Bloodwolf was just too purple-prosey. The Arak/Son of Thunder title came from earlier comics constructions like Og, Son of Fire by way of Turok, Son of Stone, maybe even Korak, Son of Tarzan.

“Arak” didn’t mean anything, but it had a nice sound. Later on, some people wrote in that “sons of thunder” is a reference to Christ’s followers.

But I’m a lapsed Lutheran myself, and I’d never in my life heard the phrase “sons of thunder.”

JA: Since DC launched him in an insert in another comic, which was a rarity, they obviously had big hopes for Arak. [NOTE: See p. 21 for the cover of Arak/Son of Thunder #1.]

THOMAS: Oh, yeah! The first issue did quite well. Not quite as well as All-Star Squadron, but that sold about 250,000, and I believe Arak #1 sold something like 200,000 at a time when that was pretty good for DC.

As for the art—well, obviously, my main Conan artist John Buscema wasn’t going to quit Marvel and come over to DC just then, so I was delighted when, at least partly due to my efforts, Ernie Colón wound up as the Arak artist. I don’t think anyone else was ever seriously considered.

But Dick and I both felt—and I don’t know in retrospect if we were right—that we needed a different inker to make Ernie’s art a bit more illustrative. So Tony DeZuniga, who’d inked both Buscema and Ernie on Conan, was brought aboard. Later on, I really got to like Ernie’s quirky inking style, and he inked a number of stories for Arak. Whether the readers liked that as well, I’m not sure.

JA: It’s hard to know. He did that Amethyst series later, and he inked it.

Frankly, I thought that was some of the best stuff he ever did, but that was me. But bringing in DeZuniga is an attempt to lure Conan readers, right?

THOMAS: Yeah. Ernie’d done a few “Conan” stories, but he wasn’t especially identified with the character, while Tony, who was, had the look Dick and I wanted. It somewhat watered down Ernie’s distinctive style, while at the same time it gave it the illustrative look we were after. You win some, you lose some.

JA: Do you think you were tapping into the Conan audience?

THOMAS: We didn’t do any surveys. I think some people followed me over from Conan. They saw my name, or at least a book that looked a bit like Conan. At the same time, we didn’t strive to make Arak look that much like Conan. It also had a kind of King Arthur feel, because of Charlemagne—or Carolus Magnus, as I called him to avoid calling him Charlemagne. Also, our hero looked as much like an Indian as like a Viking. We were trying to tap into the vein of Conan and other swordand-sorcery heroes, and at the same time not make it a slavish copy.

In that, I think, we succeeded, but Arak was never a big hit. It went

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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Flotsam And Jetsam – 1981-Style A/E reader Michael Grabois, who sent scans of the stickers at left, which were distributed by DC through comics stores in 1981, writes to Roy T.: “Because [in the late ’70s and early ’80s] I was more of a DC fan than a Marvel fan, I wasn’t really aware of what you had written at Marvel. With stuff like All-Star Squadron and Arak, you always felt like a DC guy to me…. My local comic shop at the time (Hero’s World in Woodbridge, NJ) had some promotional items for the fans at the dawn of the direct market era, including these two stickers for Arak and All-Star (about 3.5" x 7.5")— “—and [an earlier] issue of DC Coming Attractions [#50, Jan. 1981] has a blurb on page 2 about you starting on Green Lantern.” Thanks, Michael; see p. 8 for the splash of one of the two GL issues Roy dialogued as some of his earliest credited DC work. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Swords And Sorcery And Six-guns The 16-page Arak Preview was a free insert in The Warlord #48 (Aug. 1981)—whose cover, by sheer coincidence, also heralded the return of “Claw the Unconquered,” DC’s canceled Conan wannabe, as a backup feature. Warlord art by creator Mike Grell.

Also spotlighted (at right) is a dramatic Colón/DeZuniga page from the Preview. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2011 DC Comics.]

And seen above is a 1990 photo of Arak editor Dick Giordano, by then VP/Editorial Director of DC Comics, with Rose Rummel-Eury, wife of then-Assistant to the Editorial Director Michael Eury (who now edits TwoMorrows’ Back Issue! mag), at the West Coast Christmas party. Thanks, Michael!

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

along for 50 issues, and if we hadn’t agreed to halt it there, it could’ve gone on a bit longer. But it was very hard to get artists to do the kind of research and work that was needed. Not that I blame the artists; it was a difficult concept, and it demanded more of the readers, too, than Conan had. Dann and I tried to give the artists all the research and swipes we could. But the fact remains that artists probably considered Arak a helluva lot of work.

“Around The World In 80 Issues” JA: Looking at the early writing credits, I see Mike Barr’s name, Gerry Conway’s... of course, Dann, as “Danette,” obviously because she’s basically your writing partner by then on nearly everything, isn’t she?

THOMAS: Well, she wasn’t doing a lot of dialogue-writing in the early stages. In the beginning we mainly talked over the stories, and she was effectively an uncredited co-plotter. The time she first started doing actual writing—sitting at the typewriter—was on a plot around the time Mike Barr dialogued that early issue set in Rome. Dann and I had gotten married in May of ’81, on the grounds of Griffith Observatory in Hollywood, and that fall we were about to go off for a belated honeymoon. To get everything done we had to do before we left, I talked her into typing out an Arak synopsis we’d discussed, while I was in my own office writing All-Star Squadron. That worked out so well that, after we came back home, we kept it up. Not because I wanted to do less writing, but because with her helping me I could do more. Mike and Gerry did a bit of fill-in dialoguing while we were honeymooning in France, investigating the gargoyles of Notre Dame and the monoliths of the French countryside—obviously researching future Arak stories. Just check our tax records!

JA: You also had Randy and Jean-Marc Lofficier dialoguing some Arak….

THOMAS: Yes, but that was much later. Jean-Marc is French, and his wife Randy is eloquent in French; they live near Carcassone now. They and Dann and I had become very good friends. Until we moved to South Carolina in late ’91, the four of us had dinner together most Sunday evenings. So we eventually had them write the dialogue for a few issues, partly to get a little different flavor, and partly because by then we ourselves were becoming discouraged by less than stellar sales.

Of course, when Dick Giordano became managing editor at DC around the end of ’82, he soon took the “radical” step of making Gerry, Len, Marv, and myself writer/editors again. But just before then, to get back to your earlier question—when Dick had first been moved up to managing editor, he assigned Arak to a new editor, Laurie Sutton, whom I don’t think I ever met in person. Dick told me he wanted her to work with me because he felt she’d learn something about being an editor. But I don’t know if he ever told her that, because the first thing she did was start changing my copy. Also, she objected to the fact that, under Dick, I’d been allowed to write the script and mail it and the original art directly to the letterer—which didn’t give her ample opportunity, she felt, to edit. So she pressed me to send her the scripts, and I said, “Fine, but please let me know before you change anything.”

Next thing you know, these pages come back with dialogue and captions changed. I had a caption in the first issue she edited where I referred to a light touch as “a serpent kiss.” Without checking with me, she’d changed it to “a serpent’s kiss.” Not the end of the world, certainly, but less poetic than my way. I told her, if I’d wanted it to be “a serpent’s kiss,” I’d have put an apostrophe-“s” on the word myself. I’d taught English for several years.

So, after a few issues, Laurie and I came to an impasse. Dick, forced to arbitrate, looked over the material and, he told me later, decided she was wrong on almost everything—so he took her off Arak as soon as he could.

He arranged for all of us Marvel re-treads to be writer/editors, subject, of course, to him. At Marvel, I’d worked under Stan, and if I’d stayed at Marvel under a third writer/editor contract, I’d have been subject to Jim Shooter from then on, so that was perfectly acceptable to me. I’ve never really cared about having the name “editor.” What I did care about, passionately, was keeping editors from changing my work against my wishes. It’s really an insoluble problem, perhaps, and it wasn’t all Laurie Sutton’s fault. I didn’t want an editor who felt he (or she) had a creative stake in a comic I

Dab On A Bit Of Colón (Left:) The first solo backup adventure of “Valda the Iron Maiden,” in Arak/Son of Thunder #12 (Aug. 1982), was the first interior art on the series both penciled and inked by Ernie Colón, and the first story on which “Danette Thomas” (whose first name would soon be legally changed to “Dann”) received a byline. Ernie had provided full art on a few earlier Arak covers, including issue #3, which had introduced Valda.

(Above:) Malagigi, the wizard from the Charlemagne myth cycle who became a key part of the Arak cast beginning in #2, was modeled after English actor Leo McKern, best known for his portrayal of Rumpole of the Bailey. The resemblance was a bit more noticeable when Colón inked his own pencils, as in Arak #12’s “Valda” tale. [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

Alfredo Alcala during his younger days; photo courtesy of son Christian Voltar Alcala.

Adrian Gonzales; photo courtesy of Luz Gonzales.

Arak The Red After the departure of Ernie Colón, the major artists of Arak/Son of Thunder, represented on this page by covers, were (clockwise from top left): Alfredo Alcala, erstwhile Marvel Conan artist, doing full art in such issues as #14 (Oct. ’82), wherein Arak learned his destiny—the year after Dann and Roy, on a French honeymoon, just happen to have viewed the famed Bayeux Tapestry…

Former All-Star Squadron penciler Adrian Gonzales—inked by Alcala both inside and on the cover of Arak #23 (July ’83), during the period when the last of the Quontauka sported a “Mohawk” haircut…

Ron Randall, whose T-Rex cover for Arak #32 (April ’84) is spotlighted…

Tony DeZuniga, another longtime Marvel Conan artist, teamed up Arak, Valda, and fabled creatures out of Renaissance bestiaries on the cover of #39 (Dec. ’84). [©2011 DC Comics.]

(Oh, and directly below:) Roy does Arak research this time, atop Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, during his and Dann’s honeymoon in the fall of 1981.

Naturally, this setting figured in later Arak stories. Photo by Dann Thomas.

Tony DeZuniga a couple of years back. Thanks, Tony!

Brand new pro Ron Randall in a 1979 pic taken at Joe Kubert’s comic art school. Thanks to Bob Bailey.

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

wrote, because then we were liable to have conflict. At the same time, of course, when I was editor at Marvel, I’m sure I often trod on a writer or artist about something he felt creative about; there’s always a certain tension between collaborators in any kind of comic or motion picture or whatever. But I’d been hired for my track record, and to my mind that didn’t include being edited by anyone less than Stan Lee. And, to me, everyone was less than Stan Lee. JA: When you did Conan, you had Conan’s life mapped out as charted by other pulp writers, as well as Howard. Did you have a mapped-out plan for Arak, also?

THOMAS: Dann and I had it in mind that Arak would gradually circle the world… that he’d just keep heading east. We never planned for him to stay in Charlemagne’s court, but while he was there, we merged the historical Charlemagne with elements from the Charlemagne legend cycle, such as the Merlin-type magician Malagigi. We had Ernie Colón model Malagigi after actor Leo McKern from Rumpole of the Bailey. In issue #3 Arak first encountered Valda the Iron Maiden, who was Dann’s and my equivalent of Red Sonja, I suppose. Dann found the name “Valda” somewhere, but even she no longer remembers where, or what it means.

Soon Valda and Arak head off eastward and reach Rome, then they’re in Baghdad, then in the mythical kingdom of Prester John, then in India, and so forth. By the 50th issue, they’re in Japan, ready to sail off east; and if they’d kept going, they’d have wound up on the West Coast of the future United States, or maybe in Mexico or Peru—headed eastward, and eventually back to Charlemagne’s court from the opposite direction! But it would’ve been tricky having them wandering around the North American continent in a sword-and-sorcery comic… again, few “shining cities.” Still, we’d have made it work. After all, even Robert E. Howard wrote one sword-and-sorcery story, “Nekht Semerkeht,” that was set in the Southwestern Desert in the days of the Spanish Conquistadores. I’d adapted that story in Savage Sword of Conan.

JA: But you didn’t want Arak to be “Around the World in 80 Issues.”

THOMAS: No, but it wouldn’t have been that much different. If 50 issues gets us to Japan, I could see where, in another 30, he might’ve gotten back to Frankland. After that we’d probably have had him remain with Charlemagne for a time. But, in the beginning, we kept him moving, generally east. I had in mind that great line of dialogue in the movie Support Your Local Sheriff, where James Garner keeps telling people, “Basically, I’m on my way to Australia.” And Arak was basically on his way home—he was just going in the opposite direction. [EDITOR’S NOTE: Arak will be covered in detail in a future sword-and-sorcery issue of Alter Ego.]

“Rich [Buckler]’s Cover For All-Star Squadron #1… Is Probably My All-Time Favorite” JA: In All-Star Squadron, of course, it was your idea to set it in World War II. Was that just your preference, or was it to set it apart from the All-Star Comics that Gerry Conway had initiated in the ’70s, which had recently been cancelled?

THOMAS: Mostly I wanted to write the kind of World War II super-hero stories I’d done in The Invaders at Marvel. But it was also to make this book not just another “Justice Society” title. Having loved the JSA since childhood, I wanted to write those heroes, God knows… but I also wanted to expand things, with the JSAers simply as part of the membership. I knew it’d be a harder sell to readers if I set it in the past, but I didn’t much care. Once I quit being Marvel’s editor-in-chief in ’74, I no longer really cared about the companies I worked for, the way I’d once been emotionally attached to Marvel. I cared only about my own work, and about the characters I liked, and about the stories I wanted to write with them. Naturally, I hoped they sold—they had to, if I were to be allowed to continue doing them—but beyond that I wasn’t interested in churning out some monster hit. I should’ve been, but I just wasn’t.

I always remember what Barry Smith told me in the mid-’70s when I asked him why, after working for Marvel for several years, he was toying with the idea of drawing for DC—I think he was supposed to do a “Batman” story at one point. He said to me, “Working for DC is a little like quitting comics.” Not to insult DC, but in the early ’80s, after being at Marvel for 15 years, I partly shared his attitude.

JA: Rich Buckler was your choice to be the artist on AllStar Squadron, right?

THOMAS: I don’t recall how he became the artist, but Rich would’ve been, certainly, one of my top choices. I can’t think of anybody I’d have suggested before him on All-Star Squadron. Rich was sometimes criticized for imitating Kirby at Marvel, but he only did that when he was encouraged to. Rich was a lot more than an imitator.

His take on All-Star Squadron was exactly what I wanted. I liked what’s sometimes called, not entirely accurately, his “Neal Adams style” even better than his “Kirby style.” There was a lot more of Rich in the former.

And They’re Off! On its second page, the earlier-mentioned DC Coming Attractions #56 (July ’81) was still pushing All-Star Squadron and Arak. Shown in the above boxed “update” is Joe Kubert’s cover art for issue #2 of the former, coverdated Oct. ’81. [©2011 DC Comics.]

The editor of All-Star Squadron #1-20, and the guy who oversaw all those great covers by Kubert and Buckler, plus Jerry Ordway’s first two or three, was Len Wein, seen at right in a vintage photo with fellow staffer Bob Rozakis at his shoulder on “Loud Shirt Day” at the DC offices. Len, of course, was then in the midst of a still-ongoing career writing and editing for Marvel and DC, most notably his co-creation of Swamp Thing. Thanks to Bob R. for the pic.

Rich’s cover for All-Star Squadron #1, which Dick inked, is probably my all-time favorite among covers on any comic I ever wrote. It’s a wonderful concept and layout, that has been copied more than once. And I’m pretty sure I had nothing to do with it—that it was [editor] Len’s idea, which Rich executed beautifully. It was also Len’s idea, after #1, to have Joe Kubert do the covers, although that I wasn’t as certain about. I mean, you know Kubert is my all-

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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time favorite comics artist, and I was happy to see him doing covers for comics I wrote, but Joe didn’t have as much of a track record for selling super-hero comics as he did war comics. More importantly, I knew instinctively that Rich would be unhappy at not being allowed to do the covers after #1—the more so since that one had been so fantastic. After Len slipped in a Kubert cover on #2, Rich insisted that Joe’s cover for #3 not be used, and he did his own. Naturally, as soon as Rich left the book, Joe was back on the covers like a shot. And I’ve gotta admit, those were some gorgeous covers!

In the beginning, Len assigned this untried kid named Jerry Ordway to ink Rich’s pencils. I wasn’t happy about that, because he’d never showed me any of Jerry’s work; and since All-Star Squadron was my baby, my concept, I felt I should’ve been consulted. Of course, it worked out

The Race For The Retailers (Top left:) The front page of the 4-page DC Coming Attractions #55 (June 1981) showcased the black-&-white art for the covers of All-Star Squadron #1 (by Buckler & Giordano) and Arak/Son of Thunder #1 (by Colón & Giordano), both dated September ’81.

(Directly above:) Pp. 2 & 3 of the newssheet further showcased both titles, featuring Buckler All-Star/JSA figures inked by Jerry Ordway (they’d later appear in the comic), and panels from the Arak Preview drawn by Colón & DeZuniga (with part of a Quontauka poem written by Dann)—plus the Andru/Giordano cover of Superman and His Incredible Fortress of Solitude. Even the 4th page mentions that “Legion of Super-Heroes #279 is Roy Thomas’ first combined plot and scripting outing on this title” and plugs the 48-page “Secret Origins of the Superman-Batman team” in World’s Finest Comics #271, though without naming the creative team. Guess they had to draw the line somewhere! [©2011 DC Comics.]

And, speaking of Rich Buckler—the photo above right shows the artist and collector Raymond H. Reithmeier at a New York comic-con, with a copy of All-Star Squadron #1 before them. Hey, Rich—why aren’t you smiling? We know Raymond bought that Dr. Mid-Nite sketch in your mitts, ’cause we printed it in A/E #93!

Thanks to RHR for the photo scan!

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

“I Be Thor!” Yeth, We Can Thee That! wonderfully well—and I suspect that, if Len had shown me Jerry’s work earlier, I’d have concurred. After all, I’ve never forgotten that when Stan put this newcomer named Tom Palmer on Gene Colan’s pencils on Dr. Strange after he’d done nothing but pencil one lackluster issue of Strange, I wasn’t happy about that, either—until I saw his first inked splash page.

It’s not that I didn’t think Len had good taste in artists; I just wanted to be consulted, not presented with a fait accompli.

My first two titles I created for DC were tricky, because they required artists willing to draw stories set in the past—the very late 8th century, and 1941-42. Some artists, especially in those days when royalties were just starting to be paid, were reluctant to take such an offbeat assignment.

I can’t really blame them… but I wanted to do what I wanted to do. When Rich left, due to disputes with Len that partly involved the covers but that otherwise I don’t know much about, Len assigned Adrian Gonzales to pencil All-Star Squadron, again without consulting me. He just wrote me a note saying that “You’re going to like Adrian Gonzales”—and basically I did. Len’s reasoning was that Jerry Ordway would fix up the pencils. As Jerry’s said, he was given to understand that from this point on he was the most important artist on that series; and that was true. Of course, Adrian and Jerry worked out quite well together.

The same thing happened when Jerry insisted on either becoming full artist of All-Star or else he was going to walk. I had a few reservations about Jerry’s first few pages, even though they looked promising; but when I flipped through the original art and saw his pencils for the scene where eight JSAers are strapped vertically to a surface inside the Perisphere—well, that did it for me. I became as big a fan of Jerry’s penciling as I already was of his inking.

Starting in #6, Adrian Gonzales became the second All-Star Squadron penciler, with Jerry Ordway assigned an enhanced role as inker/embellisher on most issues. Seen above are Adrian’s pencils for a page from his final issue, #18 (Feb. 1983), which features the All-Stars locked in battle with a hoodlum who thinks he’s the thunder god—and the Rick Hoberg-inked printed page of same. Thanks to Jerry O. for saving the photocopies of Gonzales’ pencils that DC sent him as reference while he himself was busy penciling #19. See p. 19 for a photo of Adrian. [Pages ©2011 DC Comics.]

I should make it clear, by the way, that Len and I never had any arguments about the stories. He, like Dick on Arak, gave me pretty much carte blanche on what the stories were, what characters were used. Maybe that’s why he insisted on handling the covers with no input from me. Hey, an editor’s gotta have something to do… and Len was a good editor. I didn’t like it when he insisted that The Atom’s lapels be colored red instead of the historically correct orange, but that was a minor glitch.

Later, when Dick made me the editor of the comics I wrote, I put Adrian on Arak, figuring I could get Alfredo Alcala to “Conan” it up. And he did. Over in All-Star Squadron, Rick Hoberg did some really nice work later. I’d known Rick out in L.A.; Dann and I often drove down to his and his wife Aleta’s place in Orange County for parties. Arvell Jones did some good work on the series, too, adding a Kirbyesque flavor in the later days. But once Jerry left to do Infinity, Inc., I didn’t feel DC was trying very hard to help me get suitable artists. That’s why I had to go out and scramble for artists myself. I couldn’t go crying to Dick all the time.

But I felt that, if a good new artist came around DC, I wasn’t going to hear about him till the New York editors had all had their chance to snap him up. That’s just the way it was… one of the consequences I had to accept for my not being back East.

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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Now That’s What We Call A Vending Machine!

“Gerry [Conway] And I Co-wrote—And, Better Yet, Got Paid For—Seven Screenplays”

The full-page panel by Jerry Ordway for All-Star Squadron #19 (March ’83) is the one that immediately made scripter Roy T. a fan of JO’s penciling as well as his inking. How could he have resisted? Jerry drew the self-portrait of himself for that same issue.

JA: I understand, but DC—and I don’t mean this in a negative sense— did exploit your name from the outset because you’d come over from Marvel at a high point. It was very reasonable that they’d want to take advantage of the fact, “Hey, we’ve got Roy Thomas!” So you’d think that you wouldn’t have had any undercutting.

Soon afterward, at now-editor Roy’s behest, Jerry redesigned Tarantula to look less like the 1942 Sandman. An earlier version is seen above left, the final one at right. Great work, Jerry! The sketches were done on stationery of the Berkshire Place hotel in Manhattan, so they must’ve been drawn while Roy, Jerry, and Dann were in New York to confer with DC. [©2011 DC Comics.]

THOMAS: Well, that might’ve been true for maybe a year, but after that, naturally, I was old news if my books weren’t blockbusters. And they weren’t. They sold okay—but after they settled down to be middle-range books, instead of selling like Marv and George Pérez’s Teen Titans, I was sort of moved to the back burner. I’d done it to myself, I guess.

In 1981, though, Bakshi called me up one day right after New Year’s and asked me to come talk with him about writing the movie that became Fire and Ice, co-produced by Frank Frazetta, whose art style it would attempt to capture on film. By then Gerry and I had already sold one screenplay, Snow Fury—based loosely on a 1950s science-fiction novel I’d read about snow that eats people—so I again brought in Gerry and we went into high gear screenwriting. Over the next few years, Gerry and I co-wrote—and better yet, got paid for—seven screenplays, though only two of them made it to the screen in any form. That took up a lot of my time till the mid-’80s, and while I tried not to shortchange DC in terms of the time and effort I spent writing and editing for them, it did alter my focus considerably. There was at least a brief period there when I had to seriously consider what I’d do if it came to the point where something had to give, writing movies or writing comics. Of course, Gerry was writing comics then, as well. And I can’t rule out a bit of resentment in some circles back at DC over our movie work. We both felt there was some.

There was another problem, and this one I definitely brought on myself—not that I’d do things much differently if I had them to do over again. During the first half of the ’80s, I spent a lot of time co-writing screenplays. A couple of years before that, [artist] Mike Ploog had brought me in to talk with [producer/animator] Ralph Bakshi about doing a sword-and-sorcery movie with him; maybe that would’ve been Wizards.

But I had to turn Bakshi down. By then I’d signed a contract with Conan the Barbarian [the film] producer Ed Pressman to be story consultant to director [and writer] John Milius. One clause said that, for the one-year length of that contract, I couldn’t write a sword-and-sorcery movie for anyone else. Since I was getting ten grand as a consultant fee, I wasn’t about to jeopardize that.

I suppose this sounds as if, for me and DC, the honeymoon was over pretty fast. But it wasn’t over totally, not quite yet. After all, Jenette and

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Rick Hoberg on a field trip a few years back.

If Three’s A Crowd, What The Heck Is This?

(Left:) Rick Hoberg had to handle some real mob scenes when penciling All-Star Squadron, as per this page-and-a-half splash from #32 (April 1984). The previous month, he’d drawn the entire membership sitting in rows in the Perisphere—as reprinted in The All-Star Companion, Vol. 2, still available from TwoMorrows Publishing (hint, hint). Even the 1939-40 New York World’s Fair’s Elektro the Robot, now rechristened Gernsback, got into the act! Inks by Bill Collins.

(Right:) Arvell Jones had it a bit easier, even if Hawkgirl didn’t, in this panel he penciled for #46 (June ’85), wherein she tangles with the Nazi speedster called Zyklon (Cyclone). Inks by Pablo Marcos. [Comic panels ©2011 DC Comics.]

Arvell Jones.

Dick were happy to greenlight Captain Carrot and Infinity, Inc. and Secret Origins over the next two or three years, to say nothing of the America vs. the Justice Society and Jonni Thunder miniseries.

“The Burning Social Issues Of 1942” JA: Did you feel the various artists you worked with on All-Star Squadron captured the World War II era pretty well?

THOMAS: Yeah, I think so. And that includes Mike Harris, who came in later for an issue or two… and Todd McFarlane, just starting out, who did that Dr. Fate origin issue.

JA: But you had Colletta inks on him. [chuckles] You know I don’t like Colletta’s work as well as you did, but I’ve wondered if maybe it was a matter of Todd’s being a beginner. Maybe he was slower and he needed Colletta— plus the fact that you were aware that Colletta inking Invaders sold better than Frank Springer inking.

THOMAS: Well, that may have had

Fire And Arnold Although the Thomas & Conway team sold seven screenplays in the early ’80s, only two made it to the screen in any form: Ralph Bakshi’s 1983 rotoscope-animated Fire and Ice (co-produced by Frank Frazetta) and the Schwarzeneggerstarring Conan the Destroyer (1984). The poster for the latter is from a German release. A photo of Roy’s thenscreenwriting partner Gerry Conway appears on p. 88. [Poster art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

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something to do with my decision. I don’t recall exactly why Colletta did that issue. But hey, it was only one issue!

JA: Harking back to your World War II motif—wouldn’t you have liked to have known what George Kashdan told me when I interviewed him, that the government had asked DC to make the Japanese more monsterlike in their World War II comics?

THOMAS: Yeah, but I find that hard to believe. In any event, DC never did much of that type of thing… but the government would’ve had better luck with Timely and Harvey!

JA: You came up with the Amazing-Man hero. You made him a black character.

THOMAS: I felt we really needed a minority character… and I was eager to explore the possibilities of an African-American super-hero being in that group during World War II. Later, I made up Tsunami. That word wasn’t as common then as it is now. I used to see it on a poster in the downtown L.A. post office to which I’d take an occasional late-night ride to mail something to Marvel or DC in New York, and it was still a fairly rare word then. I wanted to deal with racial issues, as I had to some extent in The Invaders. My feeling in both books was that I wanted to deal with what I thought of as “the burning social issues of 1942.” [Jim chuckles] Of course, there was that All-Star Squadron issue that referred on the cover, as well as inside, to a very real race riot in Detroit that year.

Apparently that issue got taken off the newsstands in Detroit; I don’t know why. [mutual chuckling] Well, if DC was worried about it, they could’ve changed the cover before it went out. I didn’t sneak it by them.

JA: Don Heck did just a little work on All-Star Squadron. Wayne Boring, too.

THOMAS: Heck and Boring both did origin stories, that last half year or so of All-Star Squadron. Of course, Don was penciling Justice League when Gerry Conway and I did a five-part JLA/JSA/All-Star Squadron team-up. I was quite happy with the way that turned out. We worked out the timeline on a blackboard at an office Gerry’d rented in Encino.

[NOTE: See All-Star Companion, Vol. 2, still available from TwoMorrows Publishing, for an issue-by-issue detailing of All-Star Squadron.]

JA: But you got to a point where on some of those—I’m thinking Secret Origins now—you were using older artists, and there was that one AllStar Squadron where you used Mart Nodell.

THOMAS: That was in the third annual. I wanted to get Marty to draw the Golden Age GL… and Boring to draw Superman, and Carmine to do The Flash. God, I loved that issue, from beginning to end! We had a problem over Nodell because folks up at DC didn’t care much for his inking of his pencils, and they insisted on having Joe Giella re-ink it. Joe did an okay job, but I felt, hey, it’s only three pages, and this is the guy who created Green Lantern, for God’s sake. I hung onto Marty’s pencils and later published them in Alter Ego… and the more I look at them, the more I’m convinced I should’ve fought harder to go with my gut instinct.

Still, I had Jerry Ordway ink the Boring pages, and that worked out well.

[NOTE: See A/E, Vol. 3, #5, for all three Nodell-inked “GL” pages.]

JA: Jerry Ordway could make anybody look good.

THOMAS: If you think I’m gonna argue with you on that, you’re crazy.

JA: Did you have much contact with Wayne Boring?

THOMAS: No. I don’t think I ever met him in person. I got in touch with him while at Marvel because he was [editor] Ralph Macchio’s uncle. I’d put him on Captain Marvel and a Thor issue, and I loved the idea of working with one of the iconic “Superman” artists. I believe that, back around 1980, I was the first person for whom Boring did a Superman

A Fate Accompli Newcomer Todd McFarlane’s second appearance in a comic written by Roy Thomas was All-Star Squadron #47 (July 1985), in which the pair recast the origin of Dr. Fate, aided and abetted by the inking of Vince Colletta. The bad guy is Wotan. [©2011 DC Comics.]

So what was Todd’s first appearance in an RT-scripted mag? Believe it or not, it occurred in Arak/Son of Thunder #4 (Dec. ’81), wherein the young Canadian, still a year or so shy of becoming a comics pro, was represented by the very first fan letter printed in any issue of that series! (You’ll be reading more about Todd on pp. 41-42.)

painting—just as I was the first person to have Irwin Hasen do recreations. I couldn’t give guys like Nodell and Boring regular work at DC—I was just the editor of two or three mags, after all—but I couldn’t stand the idea that these guys who’d been so crucial to DC in the early days were now being treated like nonentities.

JA: You had a problem on All-Star Squadron because of Crisis.

THOMAS: You just had to bring that up, didn’t you? [mutual chuckling] JA: When Crisis was first formed, did you know you were going lose the Superman and Batman characters?

THOMAS: No. In fact, I was assured exactly the opposite. DC professed to be really eager to keep me happy, despite the big change that was coming in that series. I told them, “I’ll cooperate with whatever you want to happen. All I ask is that, when the thing’s over, I can still use Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in All-Star Squadron.” “Fine,” they said, “no problem.”

[Continued on p. 38]

Centennial Interlude #1

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The Wright Stuff— 1940s Version Pulsating Pin-Ups By Our Dazzlin’ Doctor Of Digitalization

A

Text by Roy Thomas

rtist Alex Wright’s first “1943 Calendar,” in which World War II movie actresses were digitally transformed into DC-owned super-heroines, got a strong reaction when it appeared in Alter Ego #55 a half decade ago. No less esteemed a personage than sf writer Harlan Ellison phoned to tell Ye Editor how much he loved the flip cover, on which Alex’s talents had transmuted Veronica Lake into DC’s heroine Liberty Belle (who, after all, had clearly been modeled on Ms. Lake’s socalled “peekaboo” hairstyle).

That was followed up in #64 by a second “1943 calendar,” this time utilizing Timely/Marvel ladies. Alex’s computerized canvases have appeared in a few other issues since then, as well as in volumes of our AllStar Companion series… but we haven’t found space for all the Wright Stuff we’ve hoped to showcase. And we’ve long regretted that, except for a couple of flip covers, we haven’t been able to display any of it in color.

Thus, with both color and 160 pages to play around with in this centennial edition of A/E, we decided—no more excuses or delays! It was time to spotlight a second multi-image project of Alex’s.

Namely, a couple of years back, he began transforming some iconic painted pin-ups of the WWII era, by some of the medium’s most noted artists, so that he—and we—could see what might’ve transpired if there’d been real, red-blooded super-heroines during the 1940s for the likes of Alberto Vargas, George Petty, and others to paint as calendars and socalled “nose art” on the fuselages of U.S. bombers. On the ensuing pages, we’re pleased to present Alex’s (and some very fine artists’) cheesecake homages to eight of DC’s most pulchritudinous paladins... counting a couple of distaff do-gooders later acquired from once-rivals Fawcett and Quality.

This time around, we’ve foregone the actual “calendar” part of the equation—but hey, if we hadn’t said anything, we doubt if most of our beady-eyed readers would’ve noticed. For comparison purposes, we’ve also reproduced smaller images of the original pin-up art on which the newies were based, since we want one and all to appreciate the talents of those practitioners of so-called “calendar art.”

Starting with:

HAWKGIRL Hawkman’s partner Shiera Sanders, the co-creation of writer Gardner Fox and artist Dennis Neville (while Sheldon Moldoff first drew Shiera as Hawkgirl)—as she might’ve looked if painted by Gil Elvgren, described by Wikipedia as one of the most important of 20th-century pin-up artists.

Elvgren did much of his work for the prominent firm of Brown & Bigelow of St. Paul, Minnesota, which provided much of the “calendar art” of the period. Interesting that the word “Feathers,” printed on the hatbox in the original art, resembles the word “Feithera,” the name of that Arctic birdland where Hawkman journeyed during the 1940s, and from which later came Northwind, a 1980s stalwart of Infinity, Inc. [Hawkgirl TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Elvgren art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

The Wright Stuff—1940s Version

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WONDER WOMAN The most famous super-heroine ever, of course, is the one created by writer William Moulton Marston & artist H.G. Peter—as adapted by Alex Wright from art by the equally noteworthy George Petty, whose “Petty Girls” were celebrated in Esquire magazine and Fawcett’s True. It was “nose art” based on Petty’s work that graced one of World War II’s most celebrated bombers, the “Memphis Belle.” Since, in Sensation Comics #1 (Jan. 1942), Princess Diana of Paradise Island took over the identity of an Army nurse named Diana Prince (what are the odds?), Alex chose to turn a wartime image of a Navy WAVE into both aspects of DC’s Amazing Amazon. [Wonder Woman & Diana Prince TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Petty art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

MARY MARVEL Probably the second most popular female super-star of the 1940s was the Big Red Cheese’s (not quite identical) twin sister, first drawn by A/E and FCA’s own Marc Swayze (and most likely scripted by a 1960s A/E “angel,” Otto Binder) in Captain Marvel Adventures #18 (Dec. 1942).

Despite flying solo in both Wow Comics and her own title for several years, by the late 1940s she appeared only in the pages of The Marvel Family. Pearl Frush, who produced the art on which Alex based his homage, was one of the few females producing pin-up art during the war years—and she did it in what has been described as an “almost photo-realistic style.” [Mary Marvel TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Frush art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

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Pulsating Pin-Ups By Our Dazzlin’ Doctor Of Digitization

THE THORN Super-villainesses could do their part for the war effort, too! Well, actually, The Thorn didn’t appear in print till she fought a certain speedster to a photo-finish in Flash Comics #89 (Nov. 1947), but let’s not hold that against her. The Thorn was the split-personality doppelgänger of a gal named Rose… and both were the creation of writer Robert Kanigher and artist Joe Kubert. The Peruvian-born Alberto Vargas was, after George Petty, probably the most famous of all pin-up artists; his mouthwatering masterpieces appeared first in Esquire, later (with even fewer clothes) in 1960s Playboy. Wikipedia reports that more WWII “nose art” was probably adapted from Vargas’ poses than from those of any other artist. [The Thorn TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Vargas art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

INZA Inza Nelson (her Silver Age married name) was given no last name in “Doctor Fate” stories in her early More Fun Comics appearances (which commenced with #55, May 1940); only in #72 (Oct. 1941) did she become “Inza Cramer.” In fact, a caption once referred to her as “Inza Sanders”; but that was merely a typo by writer/co-creator Gardner Fox, who’d also introduced Shiera Sanders/Hawkgirl. Howard Sherman was her and Fate’s artistic co-creator. Here, Inza safeguards her significant other’s marvelous helmet, which in the 1980s she would don to become a female Dr. Fate. Al Buell was another prominent Brown & Bigelow artist who later made the jump to the pages of Esquire. [Inza TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Buell art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

The Wright Stuff—1940s Version

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THE HUNTRESS With a gal like this around, lions and tigers and bears aren’t the only “big game” that might have made Frank Buck want to “Bring ’Em Back Alive”! In the late Golden Age, drawn by the likes of Mort Meskin, The Huntress battled the heroic Wildcat in Sensation Comics, and in All-Star Comics #41 (June-July 1948) she joined The Wizard’s second Injustice Society. In Roy T.’s late-’80s retro-comic The Young All-Stars, however, she was revealed to have started off as a nubile heroine calling herself The Tigress, before she went bad. And when she went bad… she was terrific. Donald Rust was a Pennsylvania-born member of the “calendar art” fraternity—and clearly, he didn’t have any problems getting into that particular frat! [Huntress TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Rust art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

BULLETGIRL Bulletgirl (alias Susan Kent) was the worthy partner and girlfriend of Bulletman in the pages of Master Comics and, during its briefer life, in that hero’s own mag. She looked a lot better in her silly headgear than Jim Barr looked in his! On the other hand, that wild helmet must’ve fulfilled the additional role of hiding her secret identity, since apparently she didn’t need to wear a mask, as well. Any Naval destroyer would’ve been proud to have her mount one of its big guns. Enoch Bolles was noted for doing many spicy covers for the magazine Film Fun, which was apparently one of the livelier movie mags on the stands. [Bulletgirl TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Bolles art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

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Pulsating Pin-Ups By Our Dazzlin’ Doctor Of Digitization

FIREBRAND Okay, so maybe the Danette Reilly incarnation of the male-gender hero of early issues of the Quality Comic Group’s Police Comics isn’t quite as authentic a World War II wonder as the other heroines and harridans covered in this piece. Point taken, since she made her own “December 1941” costumed debut in the pages of All-Star Squadron #5 (Jan. 1982), courtesy of writer Roy Thomas and artists Rich Buckler & Jerry Ordway. But at least she had actual flaming powers, unlike her Golden Age brother! And would you really have wanted us to hit the “delete” button on this art based on the work of artist Earl Moran, whose vintage pin-up work graced calendars in many a WWII barracks? [Firebrand TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Moran art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

Glamor Gals Galore (Right:) As a blockbustin’ bonus, Alex tossed in this Cinemascopic spread of all the 1940s superheroines he could find—with various actresses’ and others’ faces (and bodies) pressed into costumed service. Wanna know who they all are? So do we! A several-issue sub to A/E to the first person to ID each and every character accurately—with Alex as judge and jury! [Characters TM & ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

Alex Wright is a freelance graphic artist with over 15 years’ experience, and degrees in Illustration, Interior Design, and Web Design Engineering. Specializing in Photoshop/Photomanipulations, Alex’s work has been featured in such publications as Alter Ego, Back Issue!, All-Star Companion, and The Blue Beetle Companion, including three calendars and several covers.

He can be reached at: warm.fuzzy.alex@gmail.com.

Here’s hoping we see more of Alex Wright’s amazing work before A/E #200!

Centennial Interlude #2

31

Stretching A Point…

A.k.a., Roy Thomas Vs. The Elongated Man, 1964

by Ye Editor His Own Self

B

eginning on p. 6, as you may have already noticed, demon interviewer Jim Amash has been quizzing me re my work at DC Comics in the 1980s. But that writing and editing came on the heels of a decade and a half as a writer and editor for Marvel, which had commenced after only a week spent officially on staff at DC in 1965.

Still, the interview got me to thinking, as I have from time to time, about what might’ve happened if circumstances had conspired to keep me at DC during the LBJ Administration and made me immune to the siren call of Smilin’ Stan Lee.

And it could’ve happened—not just because I was, after all, working at DC as assistant editor to “Superman” line editor Mort Weisinger, but because, a year earlier, there had been a chance, just a fleeting moment in time, when I might conceivably have wound up scripting for a different DC editor… one whose comics I liked a lot better than I liked anything that starred the Man of Steel.

As I wrote in A/E, Vol. 3, #9 (July 2001), in early 1964 I received a letter from my esteemed correspondent, pro comics writer Gardner Fox, which informed me that The Elongated Man, a supporting hero in DC’s The Flash, would receive his own feature in Detective Comics as of issue #327. Because Gardner was busy with other work, he wrote, editor Julius Schwartz (another regular correspondent of mine in those halcyon days) had empowered him to invite me to try my hand at writing a 10-page “Elongated Man” script.

Since the letter was accompanied by Gardner’s not-yet-published first scenario for the series, I set to work at once with a vengeance.

Ere long, I sent off my script to Julie Schwartz, as per instructions… but I never heard back directly from him. Some time later, in answer to my prodding, Gardner wrote me tactfully that Julie had said my script “wasn’t quite what he wanted”—but there were never any other comments on it, either pro or con, from either man. (A couple of pages of my typed “Elongated Man” script were printed in A/E #9, so no need to repeat them here.)

While hardly claiming that script was a work of art, I’ve always felt that, especially since Julie would doubtless have applied his editorial blue pencil to it as heavily as he generally did to Gardner’s, my story might well have wound up as a fair-to-middling entry in the series. More to the point… I’ve just plain always wanted to see my little yarn drawn.

May The Bestest Man Win! Several months prior to writing his “Elongated Man” script, Roy T. had sent editor Julie Schwartz another (and long lost) speculative script for an issue of Justice League of America. It featured the previously offstage cartoonist character “Jerry Thomas” that Gardner Fox had named after Jerry Bails and Roy in JLA #16. RT’s script had “Jerry Thomas” drawing the “Bestest League of America” parody heroes that Roy had introduced in 1961’s Alter-Ego #1—with a mysterious, alien-spawned drawing pen forcing the JLAers to repeat any actions (or accidents) that happened to the BLA. Lawrence P. Guidry penciled, Shane Foley inked, and Randy Sargent colored this faux cover based on the concept Roy recalled having for the issue’s cover. Oh, and as for the cover blurb: Roy noticed that virtually every cover blurb during the 1963-64 period contained the expression “super-star(s),” so he figures Julie would’ve continued along that well-trod road. [JLA TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Bestest League TM & ©2011 Roy Thomas; other art elements ©2011 Lawrence P. Guidry & Shane Foley; coloring ©2011 Randy Sargent.]

So, in search of special features for this 100th issue, I contacted Lawrence P. Guidry and Shane Foley. Those two lads had done fine work on faux-DC art that had accompanied Bob Rozakis’ recent “Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.” feature (whose final chapter will appear in one of the next few issues of A/E) and had been sorry to see it end. Both had expressed interest in doing more artwork for A/E (besides Shane’s “maskot” drawings, which appear in nearly every issue)… and when I mentioned the notion of their illustrating my 10-page script, with Larry penciling and Shane inking, they were both gung-ho for it! Even though payment would basically amount to “all the fanzines you can eat.”

Of course, we had to change the names of the script’s lead characters— including that of a certain other super-hero who shall temporarily remain nameless. Before I could even think of thinking up a new moniker for the

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Roy Thomas Vs. The Elongated Man, 1964

hero, Larry sent me several suggestions—and one of them, “Longarm of the Law,” was so perfect that I knew there was no sense looking any further. He even came up with a great logo utilizing the name. Soon, he set to work penciling the feature, sending scans to Shane down in Australia for inking.

As a special treat (for myself, and hopefully for others, as well), I even contacted Randy Sargent, who’d worked with Shane on the faux-Marvel covers they had generated for the flip cover of A/E #27, the issue in which we all first encountered each other, courtesy of the enthusiasm of “Comic Crypt” editor Michael T. Gilbert. Randy was up for coloring the story’s

splash page, which I wanted to see in the neon hues of the Silver Age. On the following half dozen pages, you’ll glimpse (whether you want to or not) shadowy hints of the alternate world that might conceivably have existed had Julie decided to take a flyer on my script… which might have led to others, and to my becoming a DC writer rather than a Marvel one in the latter half of the ’60s. It would’ve probably made a lot more difference to me than it would have to anyone else… but still, I can’t help musing….

Anyway, here’s the story….

Sorry, folks… but to read the rest of this scintillatin’ story, which we regrettably had to reproduce at half the size of this one, with two to a page, you’ll have to either turn the mag sideways when you turn the page… or else lie down on your left side while you’re reading it…!

Stretching A Point...

33

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Roy Thomas Vs. The Elongated Man, 1964

Stretching A Point...

35

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Roy Thomas Vs. The Elongated Man, 1964

Stretching A Point...

Long Story Short…

(Above:) The splash page for writer Gardner Fox and artist Carmine Infantino’s first “Elongated Man” story, in Detective Comics #327 (May 1964)… as reprinted in the 2000 Millennium Edition reprint of that landmark issue, which had also seen the introduction of the so-called “New Look” Batman. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Roy here. Of course, had my story been published as an “Elongated Man” yarn, it would’ve been crystal-clear that The Goshawk’s alter ego was none other than Carter Hall, curator of The Gateway City Museum!

Larry Guidry (penciler)

Shane Foley (inker).

Randy Sargent (colorist, p. 1).

My profound thanks to Larry, Shane, and Randy for doing such a fantastic homage to the artistry of the fabulous Carmine Infantino (and not incidentally to writer Gardner Fox, as well)… and thereby making my fannish dream come true.

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Actually, for the past decade-plus, starting with my last few years at Marvel when I increasingly tried to work mostly on series like Conan and The Invaders and even “3-D Man,” I’d kept moving myself gradually away from the comics mainstream.

I was like some little star, constantly working myself a bit further out on some whirling, spiral nebula, due to my changing tastes, my declining interest in commercial comics. If you keep moving yourself further and further away from the center of the galaxy, you shouldn’t be surprised if, sooner or later, centrifugal force spins you off and you’re out in deep space, twinkling all alone. [chuckles]

That’s Amazing, Man! (Above:) Jerry Ordway’s powerful layout pencils for the cover of All-Star Squadron #23 (July 1983), which introduced Amazing-Man—juxtaposed with the cover as published. [©2011 DC Comics.]

[Continued from p. 25] And then, somewhere along the way, the DC powers-that-be changed their minds and “forgot” to tell me. I had to hear it from Marv Wolfman when we ran into each other at, of all things, a comics convention in London in 1985, which I wasn’t even scheduled to attend. Had DC been avoiding telling me? How long did they think that was going to work? More likely, they just didn’t bother to pay me that courtesy. It was just another nail in the coffin of my relationship with DC. In fact, if my relationship with DC had a soundtrack, it would mostly be the sound of nails being driven into a coffin. [mutual chuckling] Later, they pulled the plug on my using Aquaman, too—and even on Green Arrow, whom they’d definitely told me was okay to use even after they’d retroactively decommissioned the others.

Foreign Legion From time to time, Roy is lucky enough to acquire foreign reprintings of comics he’s written, usually sent by considerate souls abroad.

At right is Joe Kubert’s cover for All-Star Squadron #12 (Aug. 1982) from an Indonesian edition. Thanks to whoever sent this comic; we owe you a copy of this issue—and if you’ve got any more translations lying around, please send ’em on.

We’ll make sure we write your name in ’em this time! [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

39

That second series wound up being The Young All-Stars—ancestor, in its way, of all the Young Justice and Young Avengers and other series we’ve seen (in my case, only at a distance) in recent years. Calling it “Young All-Stars” rather than “All-Star Squadron, Vol. 2,” was Dann’s idea. She’s pretty smart, my wife. I told the story of Young All-Stars in such detail in the third volume of the All-Star Companion series that I don’t figure we need to rehash it here.

Besides the fact that we had severe artist problems on Young All-Stars from the very beginning, so that it’s even hard to say who the main original penciler of the series was, there was the fact that, although I was told I could have the older All-Stars drop by briefly from time to time, I had to create a new, younger group. I’m very happy with the series in general—bringing over Tsunami and Neptune Perkins from All-Star Squadron—making up Flying Fox, a name young Bruce Wayne had once used—and especially “Iron” Munro as the son of Hugo Danner, the protagonist of Philip Wylie’s novel Gladiator, which had almost certainly influenced Siegel & Shuster on “Superman.” But The Young All-Stars never really got off the ground. It’s like there were tacks on the airport runway… just a series of bad breaks.

JA: Now there was no more Earth-Two. But earlier, at some point, you’d been designated the “Éarth-Two Editor,” which I’m assuming was an official designation.

THOMAS: It was. It was stated in a written agreement implemented sometime around 1983, which gave me authority over the use of the Earth-Two heroes and the basic concept as Julie Schwartz and Gardner Fox had created it. I didn’t want those characters appearing all over the place in other books. DC’d always had its little fiefdoms; I guess this was mine. Later, while that agreement was still in effect, I acquiesced in giving up control of Dr. Fate and The Spectre, despite my having wanted to do a Dr. Fate series back in ’80, and in return was given a lien on Shazam!

That didn’t turn out to be the smartest move I ever made.

JA: Did you feel a particular need to put your own stamp on those characters, or at least a particular need to guide them?

They’re Baaaaaack!

(Above:) Our Aussie buddy Shane Foley’s notion of what a 1986-87 All-Star Squadron, Vol. 2, #1, might’ve looked like, complete with a new logo. It assumes, of course, that DC would’ve allowed Roy to feature most of the original members. For his part, Roy vividly recalls the minor furor he stirred up when he used the original Green Lantern on the cover of Infinity, Inc. #39 (June ’87)—even though no one had ever told him to avoid using GL and Flash (and Lord knows who else) on covers! [All-Star Squadron heroes & Baron Blitzkrieg TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

“Calling It ‘Young All-Stars’ Instead Of ‘AllStar Squadron, Vol. 2,’ Was Dann’s Idea” JA: Crisis basically rips the guts out of All-Star Squadron, because all of a sudden, you can’t do things you planned. I assume it didn’t help your sales, either. I know when I ran a comics store I found that, while series wound up selling an extra thousand or two copies of crossovers with big series like Crisis and Legends, afterward I found that the middle-range titles—like Blue Devil and All-Star Squadron—often dropped by 10 or 20% from what they’d been before the big series.

THOMAS: Actually, the book did fine with its so-called “Red Skies” Crisis crossovers. We never really had a chance to find out how the book would’ve done post-Crisis, actually, though the sales had sunk by then. By that point, DC, and that included Dick, decided the best thing to do was use this as an opportunity to reboot a second series of All-Star Squadron, the way they were doing with some other titles—so the post-Crisis issues were all one-shot stories, mostly just origins, not really “All-Star Squadron” stories at all.

Leaping Tall Buildings At A Single Bound: The Sequel In Young All-Stars #14 (July 1988), the young Amerindian hero Flying Fox flies “Iron” Munro to a rendezvous with a resuscitated dinosaur. Not that the son of Hugo Danner couldn’t have leaped into the fray on his own, mind you—an eighth of a mile at a time! Roy & Dann Thomas writers, Howard Simpson penciler, Malcolm Jones III inker. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

THOMAS: Yeah, I even worked out an astrological chart for the main AllStar Squadron members in the very beginning. Not that I believe in astrology, but since most of the Golden Age heroes were rather twodimensional, I felt they needed some added personality traits to differentiate one from another. So I made one a Libra, and gave him (or her) the traits that supposedly went with that, and another a Scorpio, and another a Sagittarius, and so on. I forget who was what… I kept my paperwork on it for years, but it’s lost now… and anyway, in the end, I mostly wound up winging it and doing what I could to their personalities on the fly, so to speak.

Marvel. Reminds me a little of what Mike Barr [DC writer and editor in the ’80s] once said when Jenette announced that DC was “creator-driven.”

Mike said, “No, they’re creator-towed.” [mutual laughter] I know that carping on all the problems may make it seem like I didn’t enjoy working at DC… but in truth, I really did. I loved the characters, and I liked a lot of the people. I just hated the politics of the place.

JA: You also did an issue of DC Challenge.

“Watch Your Back”

THOMAS: Yeah, I thought that round-robin thing was a great idea of Mark Evanier’s. I even got a chance to write a few panels with Son of Vulcan, who’d been the first comic book hero I’d ever written professionally.

JA: When your contract comes up after three years and you become a writer/editor again—

JA: At one point, a guy named Greg Weisman became your assistant editor. Was he stationed in New York?

THOMAS: Well, the situation kept changing. For most of the time after Dick first made me editor of books I wrote at the turn of 1983, I was indeed the editor. But later, to get back control “in-house”—and, I think, because of some politicking that was going on that in the end Dick didn’t feel he could or should resist—guys like Gerry and I were redesignated as “story editors,” which retained our control over our scripts but put a kind of official firewall between our being able to choose or direct artists. I remember Dick telling Gerry and me once, at a meeting the three of us had in Hollywood, that things had gotten a bit tricky at DC, and that Gerry and I should “watch your back.” What the hell was that supposed to mean? That we had people back East gunning for us… well, okay, we already kinda knew that… but how were we supposed to “watch our back” from L.A.? Still, this subtly verified to us that we weren’t just being paranoid, and that Dick knew it.

THOMAS: Yes. All the assistant editors were—Mark Waid, Bob Greenberger. Greg Weisman lasted longer, and we had more rapport at the time.

I was still able to have some informal influence on the art, but I increasingly had to accept artists DC lined up for me—and I wasn’t at the top of anybody’s list. This despite the fact that I’m the guy who brought them Todd McFarlane—whom DC later pissed away, so that he went to Marvel and became a super-star there instead. That’s a whole ’nother story.

JA: Did they help you pick the artists?

THOMAS: Increasingly, during that “story editor” period near the end.

But the lines of power got confused. However, at least I had reasonable access to Dick, if I had a problem, though sometimes I know I pressed him too hard. Once, when I had to call him at home and we got in a dispute, he got mad and hung up on me. I probably deserved it that time.

Things got a bit difficult between Dick and me, and between Dick and Gerry and one or two others at that time. We felt like we’d talk to him and work out an agreement on some matter… and then whatever we talked about wouldn’t be implemented, as if Dick just forgot about it. I even complained to Jenette and Paul about the situation in writing once. I hated doing that, but I was at my wit’s end, because I really liked Dick and was hoping we could straighten things out. Over the long haul, I think we did, and in later years he and I were as friendly as ever. My memories of Dick as DC’s editor are far more positive than negative. But maybe some

JA: So tell it to me.

THOMAS: Well, I forget some of the details.

But, while he was penciling Infinity, Todd, who’s Canadian, wanted DC to help him become a U.S. resident. Mike Friedrich, who was then my agent for comics work, got involved, and he kept pushing DC to move on it. All they had to do was sign a few papers, and after Todd left Infinity he would’ve kept gratefully working for them drawing “Batman” or some such. But they dragged their feet, and they dragged their feet, and in the end Todd jumped ship to

Consider It A Challenge!

(Left:) Probably the first comics script Roy ever sold is the one published in Charlton’s Son of Vulcan #50 (Jan. 1966), with his name rendered simply as “R. Thomas” on the splash page penciled by B. (for Bill) Fraccio & inked by T. (Tony) Tallarico.

(Right:) So, on the first page of his chapter of the 12-issue round-robin series DC Challenge (#9, July ’86), Roy had Son of Vulcan rescue an unconscious Plastic Man, left over from Gerry Conway’s cliffhanger ending in #8. Art by Don Heck. Jean-Marc Lofficier gave Roy an uncredited plotting assist on the issue. Thanks to Rodrigo Baeza & Frode Dreier for the scan. [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

41

who could overrule me on creative decisions.

In some middle issues of All-Star Squadron, there was a young inker that Dick persuaded me to put on the book named Bill Collins. I think he’d been Dick’s assistant. I liked his work, but Moon Over Miss America sometimes he’d Roy had hoped the EC super-heroine Moon Girl could take outline things the place of the retroactively erased Earth-Two Wonder Woman as just too thickly, the mother of Infinity, Inc.’s Fury. This splash from Moon Girl #2 and when I’d ask (Winter 1947/48) at left was drawn by Sheldon Moldoff. [©2011 William M. Gaines, Agent, Inc.] him to ease off, he’d get not just In the end, Roy had to settle for Miss America, from Quality’s defensive, but WWII-era Military Comics. Seen above are two photos in the scrapbook of Mrs. Joan Dale Trevor, mother of Lyta (Fury) Trevor, even angry. as seen in Infinity, Inc. #49 (April ’88). The circus parade pic Maybe an is based on the cover of 1950’s All-Star Comics #54, with assistant editor Miss America literally sitting in for the vanished Amazon. could’ve helped Script by Roy & Dann, pencils by Vince Argondezzi, inks by with some things Frank McLaughlin &/or Sam Kieth. [©2011 DC Comics.] like that. Bill was others felt differently. I know that Dick was puzzled and hurt, pretty good, though—but he seems to have disappeared from comics after the last few years of his life, that he got so little art or inking work from he left All-Star Squadron.

DC. This was a guy who was as good an inker as they ever had!

On the other hand, I’m sure I should’ve spent more time telling Bill I’ll give you just one minor example of the problems in the mid-’80s. and others what they did right. Jerry Ordway said years ago in an When Crisis retroactively wiped out the Earth-Two Wonder Woman, I interview that he felt I was impossible to please on All-Star Squadron… needed someone to be the mother of Fury in Infinity, Inc. Dick felt bad yet you know from our conversations that I had few if any pencilers at about what had happened and said he’d try to help me. Well, DC had a DC whose work I ever liked more than Jerry’s. Dann told me I spent too relationship with EC’s Bill Gaines, and in the late ’40s EC had published a much time telling artists what was wrong, and not enough praising them. super-heroine called Moon Girl, a Wonder Woman wannabe written by I’d have to ask Jerry to change some costume detail—not that he didn’t do Gardner Fox and mostly drawn by Shelly Moldoff. She came from a lost way over 90% of the stuff right the first time—and when you seem to civilization, and even had sandals like Wonder Woman. I asked Dick if always be pointing out something an artist did wrong and not taking the he’d try to arrange for me to use Moon Girl as the replacement for time to say what he did right… well, it’s a failing I must’ve had, although Wonder Woman. Dick said he’d look into it. A couple of months went by Rich Buckler and some others didn’t seem to feel that lack. As for Jerry, and I heard nothing, and decisions had to be made in Infinity, Inc. When I’d have loved to go on working with him forever and a day.

I finally asked Dick what was happening on the Moon Girl front, he JA: I don’t blame you. If I had Jerry Ordway, I’d do anything I could to seemed to have totally forgotten our conversation and had clearly never keep him, too. Moving on to Infinity, Inc.—that book got a pretty good talked to Gaines. Well, I know Dick was busy, and I solved the problem by push when it began. What were the sales like on it? bringing in Quality’s Miss America as Fury’s mom, but I felt I’d wasted time waiting for an answer that was never going to come. Actually, I'm THOMAS: I don’t recall exactly, except that they were pretty good. It was not quite sure, at this late date, why I didn't just make the Fury from great for me, because the deal Marv and I, and a few others, had on these Young All-Stars Lyta’s mother. I’d clearly had that in mind at some stage. new “direct-sales-only” series—which were sold only in comics shops, not on the newsstands where there could be returns—we received “first-copy Like I said, we writers out West all liked and respected Dick, and over royalties.” That meant we got paid based on the number of copies time all those problems kind of faded away. Nowadays, I suspect most of ordered; there were no returns to subtract from the total later. It was a us would be hard-pressed to recall what most of those disputes even were. very good deal for us—and it had been DC’s idea—but it also made it I don’t remember much of anything besides the Moon Girl thing… and of easier for a mag to become “marginal” saleswise and thus subject to course Shazam! And all along, we always knew that, basically, we had a cancellation. friend at DC in Dick.

JA: And you had these assistant editors. But how much help could an editorial assistant be who’s across the continent?

THOMAS: Actually, that was the point. I needed someone in the New York offices to coordinate and handle traffic, just as I’d had at Marvel from ’74 to ’80. I wanted an assistant editor… I just didn’t want someone

As on All-Star Squadron, I was never able to ideally replace Jerry on Infinity, though Todd McFarlane, who was just starting out, made a good replacement, with his offbeat style. It was Dann who prodded me to make Todd the artist of Infinity when it came down to between him—he had mailed me copies of the little bit of Marvel work he’d done—and another artist that DC was pushing. She convinced me, and that’s certainly a

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

decision I very quickly knew had been the right one. After Todd left Infinity after a couple of years, other people did good work on it, but after Jerry and then Todd, the book lost something it never quite regained.

JA: I think McFarlane did something interesting with the decorations of some of his panels, where he had weapons and symbols outside the panel borders. I had never seen anyone do that before him. It didn’t necessarily enhance the storytelling, but it didn’t hurt it, either.

THOMAS: That’s the way Dann and I felt. I think Todd was trying to make up for what he felt was a drawing deficiency as a relative beginner by making the pages look rather decorative and unusual. It succeeded, and the book sold pretty well under him, as I recall.

JA: What was he like to work with?

THOMAS: He was great. He was totally agreeable. I never saw the Todd McFarlane that other people had problems with. Dann and I recall how we ran into him walking around the San Diego Con during that period, giving away pages of Infinity art to fans who’d walk up to him. He was just joying in being in the field, and that’s a feeling I can remember, too. I only met Todd in person a time or two; most of our communication was by letter or phone. Later, he penciled several pages of a Valda mini-series Dann and I plotted, but DC never got around to scheduling it. I was really touched, a few years ago, by the nice things he wrote in the introduction he did to that DK book I wrote on Conan. And around 1990 he gave me the original art to the Conan the Barbarian cover he drew for the first issue of my return to the character. I like to think we respected each other.

JA: At that time, I was running a comic book shop. I sent C.C. Beck some of McFarlane’s Infinity issues so he could see what I’d been telling him about on the phone—and he said it looked like “stained glass windows.” I couldn’t be sure how complimentary or uncomplimentary that was.

THOMAS: I’ve got a rough idea, though. I often disagreed with C.C. Beck on what I felt were his way-too-narrow views on comic art. He used to write, for print, really scathing things about Barry Smith’s work on the early Conan, at first because it was less polished, and later because Beck’s idea was that anything beyond simple storytelling was too much. And I thought, “Well, if something works, it works.” It worked in Barry’s case, and in Todd McFarlane’s.

“Everybody Wanted To Grab Shazam!”

JA: But even though Beck made that “stained glass windows” comment, the next time I talked to him on the phone, he said, “Well, it was pretty to look at.” I thought that was interesting, because I was intrigued by what McFarlane was doing. I hadn’t seen anything like it before, and of course you’re always wanting to see something new, and hopefully new is good.

I’m getting off the Infinity, Inc. subject, but you did the Shazam! The New Beginning mini-series with Tom Mandrake. That’s one of the few things you’d done that I hadn’t liked. In retrospect, what I really didn’t like was the artwork. I thought Billy Batson looked like a midget, rather than a kid.

THOMAS: Hey, he was practically a giant compared to the way Billy was drawn in Legends! There, his feet didn’t even touch the ground when he

Todd McFarlane—A Marginal Artist?

As he had in All-Star Squadron #47’s Dr. Fate origin, young Todd McFarlane brought individualistic design qualities to Infinity, Inc., beginning with the splash of his very first issue, #14 (May 1985)—where, in the margins of the page, Obsidian’s image is “reflected” by that of his father, Green Lantern, and Northwind’s by that of his godfather, Hawkman. Dann actually co-wrote the script with Roy; Tony DeZuniga inked. Todd’s self-portrait above left appeared with a mini-bio in Infinity, Inc. #19 (Oct. ’85). [©2011 DC Comics.]

sat on a chair. I never thought of Billy as being terribly short in our story....

JA: The body proportions weren’t right, but that was just my feeling.

Anyway, I had sent those issues to Beck, who hated them.

THOMAS: Well, of course. They weren’t the Beck approach to “Captain Marvel.”

JA: And I was prejudiced because, frankly, Beck was Captain Marvel to me. Not just because I was friends with him.

THOMAS: Beck was “Captain Marvel” to me, too. That Shazam! series did have its problems. Tom Mandrake is a very good artist, but I seem to recall he didn’t especially want to do that series, and was put on it at the last minute. I think he did a fine job on a “darker” Captain Marvel. Had things continued from there, with a regular series as was supposed to happen, we’d have had a nice ongoing title. But unfortunately, DC just let everything get in the way until, finally, my contractual option on the character expired.

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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Dick told me that when DC got the sales reports on the fourth and final issue of the mini-series, the sales had gone up from #2 and #3. #4, of course, was the first issue whose sales could reflect the sell-through of #1.

So the sales of New Beginning called for a definite continuation, and I pushed for that. I don’t recall if Tom didn’t want to do more or if they didn’t want him to do more, but DC took over the search for a new artist.

I told that story in detail back in Alter Ego #9. It was a godawful, frustrating experience. Since I was just the “story editor” by then, I got bounced between two or three different editors—I now think of them as “bungee bosses,” in the sense of a celebrated Dilbert strip—guys who are tossed onto a project just long enough to foul things up, or to take up time and space without accomplishing anything at all. First they gave me to Mike Gold, which was fine by me… but Mike quickly left, and I was passed on to other editors with whom I had less rapport.

DC then proceeded to come up with all kinds of weird and changeable criteria for the book. Some editor decided #1 had to be a stand-alone story, which I felt was stupid and anti-productive, but I changed it. Then I got stalled some more. I felt as if obstacles were being tossed in my way for no good reason. I honestly feel that some people up there—not Mike, I

Captain (Neo-)Nazi While the search was on for an artist for an ongoing series that was to have picked up where Shazam! The New Beginning left off, editor Mike Gold invited the Thomases to script four 7-page chapters of a “Shazam!” story for Action Comics Weekly #623-626 (Oct. 25-Nov. 15, 1988). It introduced a modern-day Captain Nazi as champion of a neo-fascist group. Pencils by Rick Stasi, inks by Rick Magyar. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Tom Mandrake as a student at Joe Kubert’s art school in 1979.

Thanks to Bob Bailey.

Capitan Marvel Flies Again!

Tom Mandrake’s dramatic and moody cover for Shazam! The New Beginning #1 (April-May 1987) served double duty on Shazam! El Nuevo Cominenzo #1, a Spanish-language reprinting of the combined first two issues of the series. The U.S. series sold well, but merely led, regretfully, to considerable friction between co-writer Roy Thomas and DC, as related in this interview. Thanks to the sender of this comic, whoever he/she may be. [©2011 DC Comics.]

should make clear—just wanted to run out the clock, so they or their buddies could get their hands on Captain Marvel, despite the good sales of our recent series. I hadn’t had any real help on the New Beginning series except, of course, that we’d all agreed we wanted to go with a more contemporary approach. Like JFK said, success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan. It became a reasonable success, and all of a sudden everybody wanted to grab Shazam!, and of course all I wanted was for them to get the hell out of my way. I know that’s not very modest.

I was particularly annoyed because, as I said, earlier I had given up my contractual liens on Dr. Fate and The Spectre in exchange for one on Captain Marvel—and now DC was basically reneging on me. Again.

JA: As far as the up-sales on the fourth issue, I know how that worked because I ran a shop. I ordered #1, I ordered #2, I had to order #3 before #1 was in our shop. By the time #1 comes into the shop, I’m ready to order #4.

THOMAS: Right, that’s exactly what Dick told me. But then DC proceeded to mess around and not accomplish anything for a year or two.

Part of it was just trouble with artists, which DC had taken on as its responsibility—to get an artist who both was good and actually did the work. I didn’t have the authority to hire anyone. I tried to bring in people like Rick Hoberg, and DC just kept farting around with one or two artists who were good but weren’t delivering work, and finally had an issue or so

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

“Generations” To Come (Left:) This double-page plug for Infinity, Inc. drawn by Jerry Ordway & Mike Machlan (and written by RT) appeared in the Sept. 1984 comics shop giveaway DC Sampler. After an almost inexplicable delay, considering how many issues were penciled by either Jerry Ordway or Todd McFarlane, DC will finally reprint the early issues of Infinity, Inc. (and its three-issue All-Star Squadron lead-in) in a color hardcover in June 2011. O frabjous day!

(Below:) Jerry Ordway’s pencils for a climactic scene from Infinity, Inc. #9 (Dec. 1984).

Thanks to Jerry for the photocopies. [©2011 DC Comics.]

penciled by artists they’d chosen but decided not to publish them anyway.

The next thing you know, I’m told, “Oh, by the way, your hold on Shazam! has expired and someone else now has dibs on it.”

JA: Didn’t DC own the character by that time?

THOMAS: Yes. But I don’t know exactly when that happened, or how much it cost.

“Infinity, Inc. [Was] A Series Very Definitely With Four Creators” JA: [laughs] To get back to Infinity, Inc., since that’s really your baby— THOMAS: Yeah, mine and Dann’s and Jerry’s… and very definitely Mike Machlan’s, as well.

JA: How much input did everybody have?

THOMAS: First, Dann and I went to New York on a trip paid for by DC. I intended to sell them on a series I called The Time Titans, though I figured the name would be changed because of Teen Titans. I suspect the group included The Shining Knight and Tomahawk, maybe some future guy like Space Ranger—but also a few new characters, which I doubt I’d bothered to make up yet. Time enough for that if DC okayed the idea.

Dann and I took a ferry over to see the Statue of Liberty—first time I’d been there since my high school senior trip from Missouri in 1958. Dann didn’t care to go inside, so we just stood around waiting for the next ferry and got to talking about this notion of the sons and daughters of the JSAers. By the time we got back to Manhattan, we’d made up this group— not all the members, but several of them. I even knew the title I wanted: The Centurions. That would’ve made a great name for the Time Titans group, too. But I soon learned that a new TV animated series with that name was about to debut, so Dann came up with Infinity, Inc., which I’ll admit I was never wild about. But I couldn’t come up with anything better, and DC liked it, so that became our title.

JA: So she is quite the complete co-creator, then.

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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THOMAS: Oh, very definitely. We worked out all the early details together, just the two of us. She had ideas uncontaminated by much knowledge about the JSAers themselves, and of course I knew the JSA, so we were playing off each other’s strengths. DC wanted Power Girl and The Huntress in there to give the team continuity, though it made the group a bit crowded. Then, with DC’s blessing, we met with Jerry Ordway and Mike Machlan, who were friends in the Midwest, about drawing the feature. I remember the four of us going out to lunch in New York and talking things over. Immediately, of course, Jerry and Mike were coming up with ideas, drawing sketches, and the like—so from that point on Infinity, Inc. became a series very definitely with four creators. I cover that in such detail in Alter Ego [Vol. 3] #1 and in All-Star Companion, Vol. 4, though, that we needn’t spend much time on it here.

Originally, Mike was to pencil the book and Jerry would ink it. Very quickly, though, it got switched around so that, except for the first couple of covers, Jerry became the penciler and Mike the inker. Mike did most of the actual developmental drawings, but with plenty of input from Jerry.

When DC worked out a creators’ contract, and then just a couple of years ago when they agreed to give us a small payment each issue for that recent, short-lived Infinity, Inc. series that had little to do with our creation, the company wanted to count Jerry as the creating artist, getting that half of the royalties. Jerry and I insisted both times that Mike get an equal share; he deserved it. Dann deserved half of my half, of course, but since I turned all the checks over to her, she didn’t complain.

Brain Drain Unlike on Arak, Dann and I co-wrote Infinity from the beginning, coplotting it, with Dann usually, if not always, doing the first draft on the script, which I then rewrote. Not that she was openly credited as co-writer right away; I had to take it slow in that area.

JA: I wondered how your writing collaboration went. I always figured it would be whatever was expedient when something needed to be done.

THOMAS: Some plots for some titles I wrote alone—especially on AllStar Squadron, though even there we often verbally co-plotted. Eventually I wanted to sign some of the stories “Roy & Dann Thomas.” Before that, she just got a co-plotting credit, even though she had often contributed to the dialogue, as well.

Sometimes the two of us fought like cats and dogs, especially when I changed something for

Mike Machlan in a 1999 photo—and perhaps the only one of his conceptual drawings for the Infinity, Inc. series which hasn’t been previously published either in A/E V3#1, or #44. This was primarily an adaptation of the original Brainwave’s second “look,” from All-Star Comics #58-59 (Jan.-April 1976). [©2011 DC Comics.]

what she felt was the worse. Sometimes I’m sure she was right, because I’d be in a hurry since I was jumping around between writing comics and movies, and some inconsistency or mistake might slip in. It got a bit stormy sometimes, but lots of collaborations are like that. Although I have to say, Gerry Conway’s and mine never was. But then, Dann’s and mine has lasted a lot longer. [mutual laughter] JA: You’ve gone on the record as saying that you didn’t want to create characters for the comics companies, because you wouldn’t own them.

But you apparently changed your mind to some extent here.

THOMAS: Well, in this case I had contracts with DC that called for me to own a piece of characters I created—not in the sense of controlling them, or being able to take them to a different company or medium, but at least in the sense of getting royalties when they were used. We all still get money whenever DC does a toy or some such with Jade or Obsidian or whomever. Arak was once was a toy figure; I forget if characters like Tsunami or Amazing-Man from All-Star Squadron ever were. Oddly, DC gave me a piece of Neptune Perkins when we started Young All-Stars, even though I told them he’d really been created by Gardner Fox, with

Helix The Cats One of the highlights of the post-Ordway-&-Machlan era of Infinity, Inc. was the “nuclear family” of mutants (“genomorphs”) called Helix: Penny Dreadful, Mr. Bones, Arak Wind-Walker, Tao Jones, Kritter, & Baby Boom. Seen here is the cover of issue #17 (Aug. 1985). Pencils by Todd McFarlane; inks

by Tony DeZuniga. Arak Wind-Walker was presumably a descendant of the original Son of Thunder.

Later, a couple of editorial geniuses changed most that was unique about the characters, getting rid of Mr. Bones’ rhyming talk and even costume. Nor did those staffers ever understand Baby Boom or Kritter, apparently being unable to get their minds around the Tin Drum/Interview with the Vampire inspiration for the child-sized yet young-adult Babe—and believing Kritter to be a dog with human intelligence instead of what he always was, a computer-whiz boy mutated into doglike form. A Helix limited series was scheduled right after Infinity’s cancellation, but that got stalled and inanely chipped away at and was never published, although the first issue was plotted. To quote satirist Stan Freberg, Roy was finding much of his later experience at DC “like being nibbled to death by ducks.” [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

THOMAS: Yes. Or Captain Carrot, or Infinity, Inc., or our version of Jonni Thunder, a.k.a. Thunderbolt. Still, I had mixed feelings about the recent and mercifully short-lived Infinity, Inc., even though I was getting money for it, because I felt they should’ve offered it to Jerry, Mike, and me. It’s the classic Catch-22, as defined by Joseph Heller: “They can do anything you can’t stop them from doing.”

Toy Story (Left to right above:) This ad for Warlord, Arak, and Hercules toys appeared in early 1984 DC comics. Also included with the figures, allegedly, was a Warlord “Battle beneath the Earth” mini-comic in which Mike Grell’s modern-day hero battled Arak—but no one we contacted could turn up a copy of it by presstime, and if Roy ever saw this mag, he sure doesn’t recall it now! Anybody out there got a copy for sale or trade?

Also pictured are a photo of the Arak action figure (Roy has one, but with the tomahawk sadly lost)—and an actual Arak water gun, for zapping the foes of Charlemagne. Hey, what Malagigi the mage couldn’t have done with that! Both images courtesy of Michael Grabois, who informs us there was even a variant version of the figure in which the Quontauka warrior sported a vest. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Kubert art. I’d made up Amazing-Man for All-Star Squadron, using the name of a Bill Everett character—Bill had given me his blessing to use that name for a character years earlier, but Stan [Lee] wouldn’t have gone for that name. Too corny. So I complained volubly when DC launched that humorous ’Mazing Man comic a bit later. I didn’t have anything against the character, just the name, which I felt undercut my economic interests in Amazing-Man. I was informed by Paul Levitz, “We have the perfect right to do this.” I said, “Well, of course I know DC has the right to do it. I’m just saying it’s not the right thing to do.” But they called the book that anyway.

JA: So you still would get some financial participation if, say, they brought back Arak.

Brief Interlude (Above:) Don Newton was all set to succeed Jerry Ordway as regular penciler of Infinity, Inc., but he tragically passed away after working on parts of two issues and fully penciling only #13 (April 1985). Inks by Joe Rubinstein, who received special permission from Marvel Comics (to which he was then under contract) to ink the issue in honor of his late friend. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Don is seen at left as Captain Marvel from a 1973 magazine edition of the Houston Chronicle, with thanks to P.C. Hamerlinck. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

Still, as I’ve said, I happen to like a number of those people. I’ve a lot of respect for Paul Levitz, for example. As Dann is fond of saying, Paul gave DC a human face for a couple of decades. And of course, I continued to like Dick even when having problems with him and DC by the mid-’80s.

Ditto Mike Gold, as well as a number of writers, artists, and editors.

“[Last Days Of The JSA] Was Actually My Idea, Believe It Or Not” JA: You did America vs. The Justice Society, which basically told the whole backstory of the JSA. You had artist changes on that, too.

THOMAS: You noticed that, huh? They put Rafael Kayanan on it as penciler. I didn’t know Rafael then, but I thought he did quite well, and so did Alfredo Alcala inking him. But Rafael wandered off after two issues.

Maybe he discovered, “Hey, I’m drawing a thousand characters here!” A lot of artists don’t like that. Not everybody is George Pérez.

I conceived America vs. the Justice Society specifically so I could retell the main history of the JSA, both Golden Age and since. I liked the idea of that story coming out in the context of a court trial. It was Dann who came up with the idea of the Batman Diary, based on the forged “Hitler diary” that had been in the news.

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showed The Human Torch roasting Hitler in 1945. That was just expanding on a scene from Young Men #24, but I’d always felt that had been a brilliant idea.

At that stage, DC somehow seemed a bit embarrassed by its past. Some of the people at that meeting didn’t want to look back over the horizon beyond yesterday. I have little respect for that attitude. To me, Earth-Two was one of the great creations of the Silver Age. JA: Maybe they thought their history was just too convoluted at that point.

THOMAS: Yes. But that was a short-sighted office perception, not the readers’.

JA: I never had problems figuring out Earth-One and Earth-Two, and I never knew anyone who ever did.

THOMAS: Of course not. Every time the Earth-Two characters appeared, an explanation was given as to who they were. When it was handled by somebody like Julie or later myself and maybe one or two others—

JA: How did you feel about doing Last Days of the JSA? THOMAS: It was actually my idea, believe it or not. I was at a meeting of DC editors and sales people while back in New York. They were startled when I proposed it… but I could see, in that meeting, which way the wind was blowing and that DC really wanted to retire the JSA “for good” after Crisis on Infinite Earths… so I figured, why not do it right, with a big graphic novel? And at least one of the JSA’s biggest fans would be writing the sendoff. I remember Bruce Bristow of sales saying, “That suggestion makes so much sense that I can’t believe that anyone in this room made it.” Like he’s the only guy who knew what should be done with DC’s characters. But then, Bruce Bristow and I were rarely on the same page. Dick vowed that “As long as I’m editor, the JSA will never come back.” “Never” turned out to be a couple of years.

JA: Barry Allen was never supposed to come back, either.

THOMAS: Barry Allen stayed dead longer than the JSA stayed trapped in the Twilight of the Gods. That’s DC’s business, of course, but on Last Days I got double-crossed yet again. It was agreed up front that it was to be a graphic novel, or a “prestige book” as they called it then, and artist Dave Ross and I started it that way… but then, without any discussion with me, it suddenly got switched to just an extra-length comic book.

Typical. If I sound bitter about the totality of my experience at DC, it’s because, even though I loved doing the books, I felt I got constantly undercut. I’m happy with Last Days, though, even though using Ragnarok was a bit close to Marvel’s Thor—but hey, it was Hitler, not me, who said that Wagner’s music was like another real world to him!

JA: It had to be a little wistful for you, knowing how you felt about those characters.

THOMAS: Yes. I was “killing off ” all those heroes, but I felt I really couldn’t avoid it. I felt it was good to tie it to the Spear of Destiny, which Paul Levitz had brought into the JSA mythos, and to kill Hitler. Hey, I just realized—I killed Hitler at both DC and Marvel! In What If #4, which was counted from the start as “really happening” in the Marvel Universe, and again in the Saga of the Original Human Torch mini-series, I

Just(ice) One Of Those Things The above never-before-printed page depicting the JSA—probably inked

by Alfredo Alcala—was apparently squeezed out of America vs. the Justice Society when the first two issues of what was originally planned as a fiveissue mini-series were combined into a double-size #1. At left is a photo of Raf, holding a sword he probably designed. [JSA TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

#1, what you were wanting was the Boring look and storytelling.

Let Me Count The Ways….

(Above:) Roy’s always loved the concept, introduced in Timely/Atlas’ Young Men #24 (Dec. 1953), that in 1945 The Human Torch french-fried Adolf Hitler in his Berlin bunker, so he expanded that scene in the Marvel-canonical What If? #4 (Aug. 1977); art by Frank Robbins & Frank Springer. Of course, after Hitler’s suicide in the “real world,” the Nazi dictator’s body had been burned (at least partially) by aides, which was the inspiration for the 1953 scene written by a sadly unidentified writer. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

THOMAS: I’m a big fan of Boring’s work.

Curt Swan was a really good draftsman and as nice a guy as you’d ever want to meet, but I never cared that much for his “Superman.”

Too static, too… boring. While, to me, Boring wasn’t boring. If you were writing this down instead of recording it, that’d be a lot clearer. [mutual chuckling] I think Boring liked the idea of doing “Superman” again. In addition to inking, I had Jerry fix up the Earth-Two “S” on Superman’s chest.

Boring’s didn’t come out quite right. But I’m real proud of our retelling of the origin of Superman there.

JA: In Secret Origins, you got Carmine Infantino to draw “Adam Strange.”

THOMAS: Well, he’d been supposed to draw it first, back in the ’50s. That was the only Earth-One character whose origin I edited—Gerry Conway

(Right:) In the Last Days of the Justice Society Special #1 (1986), Roy got to script Hitler’s end two more times—first, with Der Führer, Hawkman, and the rest of the world perishing by the unleashed power of the Spear of Destiny; and later, after the JSA had set things a-right in the universe, with Adolf shooting himself in the head with a pistol in the approved historical manner.

Pencils by David Ross; inks by Mike Gustovich. [©2011 DC Comics.]

someone who kept the integrity of the concept and kept it straight—it worked out fine. When every little editor or writer did whatever he wanted to with Earth-Two, things became a real mess. Julie made some missteps with it, and so did I, but we both basically knew what we were doing.

JA: But my point is that, if you’re doing “out with the old and in with the new,” that attitude might’ve been reflected in the packaging of this book.

THOMAS: Yes, but it was DC who’d proposed that Last Days be a graphic novel in the first place. But hey, they changed their minds. Why should I have believed they’d keep their word?

“Not-So-Secret Origins” JA: Late in your six years under contract to DC, you started Secret Origins… which in 1961 had been a special issue put together by Julie Schwartz, and later a regular series assembled by Nelson Bridwell.

THOMAS: Right, and very well, too. I don’t want to repeat too much of what I wrote in All-Star Companion, Vol. 4, about the not-so-secret origins of “my” Secret Origins—but I was looking for a way both to increase the World War II-related material I was doing and the JSA/AllStar Squadron work; so, while Dann and I were on a several-thousandmile drive around the country to avoid being in L.A. during the ’84 Olympics, I came up with the notion of an ongoing book of re-tellings of Golden and Silver Age origins—and of new origins where there hadn’t been any. DC loved the idea, although for the first few issues they kept changing their minds every little bit as to what the book was supposed to be, and I was soon quite happy to just write the Golden Age origins and let the Silver Age-plus ones be handled by someone else.

It was my idea to do the Golden Age origins in chronological order depending on when the heroes first appeared, though we made a few exceptions early on to get Superman in the first issue, etc.

JA: Even though you had Ordway ink Wayne Boring on Secret Origins

Read All About It! Even the Daily Planet plugged the first issue of the new Secret Origins series (April 1986), with its cover by Jerry Ordway and Wayne Boring. [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

scripted it—because, when it was assigned, I was the only editor of Secret Origins. But that soon changed—and again, I went over that in such detail in the fourth volume of The All-Star Companion that we can kind of skip over it here. Pretty soon, I was just handling the Earth-Two portion of the book, and that was fine by me. Well, later I also scripted the origin of Captain Comet.

JA: When you did “Batman,” you got Marshall Rogers and Terry Austin, which I thought was great.

THOMAS: They’d done such a good job with Steve Englehart on “Batman”—what other choice was there at that stage? Just like Wayne Boring was an inevitability, to my way of thinking. Some of those early issues of Secret Origins looked great—like “The Crimson Avenger” drawn

by Gene Colan, and Jerry Bingham’s Captain Marvel origin.

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Kane do one of the heroes he wanted to do—“The Ray”—though that story was never published. Both Gil and Murphy loved Lou Fine and Reed Crandall and Will Eisner. They each wanted to draw all their heroes’ origins, so I divided them, with Murphy getting “Uncle Sam” and “Doll Man” and “Black Condor,” and Gil doing Jack Cole’s Spirit clone “Midnight” and “The Ray.” I had the impossible task of keeping two great artists happy. Couldn’t be done. Gil and I did an origin for the Crandall character “Firebrand,” too. That was a nice one, also never published, which was connected in part with the Japanese attack on Shanghai in the late ’30s.

JA: Well, you had Murphy Anderson doing “Black Condor.”

As I detailed in All-Star Companion, Vol. 4, I also prepared origins for “Hawkgirl,” “Wildcat,” “The Sandman-&-Sandy Team”… and the plot for “Aquaman.” When Aquaman got removed from DC history retroactively

by Crisis, as detailed in another volume of the Companion, Jean-Marc Lofficier and I rolled over our ideas for that one into the backstory of Neptune Perkins in Young All-Stars. I remember one editor up at DC in 1986 wanted me to treat Aquaman in the last few issues of All-Star Squadron as if he’d never existed on Earth-Two… even though I’d already pictured him once or twice… so naturally I made sure he was in the opening scenes of #60, the last issue that featured the group as a group.

THOMAS: You’d have had to tie Murphy up to keep him away from the Lou Fine characters! Actually, Murphy got miffed at me because I had Gil

Eventually, there was a backstage power grab at DC, and I, who had come up with the whole idea of the revival of Secret Origins, was knocked

JA: I agree. The early issues are the most potent ones.

THOMAS: As it went along—I know you’ll be shocked to learn this, but I had more and more trouble getting access to the artists I wanted.

Hand Me My Kane!

Gil Kane turned in pencils (which he planned to ink) on two Secret Origins tales featuring Quality Comics characters initiated by favorite artists of his. Lou Fine had launched “The Ray” in Smash Comics #14 (Sept. 1940), and Reed Crandall had drawn “Firebrand” in Police Comics #1 (Aug. 1941). The latter had no origin, so Roy and Gil made one up. Although Secret Origins limped on for a year or so after the Golden Age stories were dropped, these yarns were never inked, let alone published. Gil’s photo appears on p. 58. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Here She Comes, Miss Am—I Mean, Fury!

Several sample pages for the never-published Justice Society of America: Invasion from Fairyland mini-series that was to expand the events of All-Star Comics #39 (Feb.-March 1948) were later inked by penciler Michael Bair and printed as a flashback in Infinity, Inc. #50 (May 1988). There, Miss America stood in for the retroactively nonexistent Wonder Woman. In the above page of pencils drawn by Bair for the series’ actual first issue, however, it’s the 1940s Fury of Young All-Stars who takes the Amazon’s place in a brief recap of the “deaths” of the male JSAers seen in All-Star #38. [©2011 DC Comics.]

out of it, along with all remaining Earth-Two origin stories. That included two stories already penciled by Gil Kane. Yeah, that’s really clever—that’s doing the right thing for the company. But these office-politics types can be vicious when their little fiefdoms are involved. I’m sure Secret Origins did much, much better minus all those 1940s origins dragging it down— which actually wouldn’t have been Earth-Two ones at that stage, and thus in no way contradictory to post-Crisis DC continuity. One ex-editor gave me some vague sort of apology several years ago at a con for my being pushed off the book, without quite taking the responsibility himself… I just said, “Okay, fine.” The “mistakes were made” kind of apology is meaningless to me.

There was another limited series that Michael Bair, a.k.a. Michael Hernandez, and I were supposed to do that in the end didn’t happen. It was agreed that we’d take the “JSA” story from All-Star Comics #39, “Invasion from Fairyland!,” and expand it into a four-issue series, fleshing out the episodes… maybe even tossing in new ones. Michael did several fine sample pages, and even the first several of the first issue. Other heroines replaced Wonder Woman in the art that was done, since Moon Girl never panned out, so there was no Earth-Two problem. But, somehow, DC never got around to scheduling it, or to giving me any explanation as to what’d changed since the idea’d been accepted. That was getting to be par for the course.

JA: I was interested in your choice of George Tuska for the Jay Garrick “Flash” origin. Why not Carmine?

That happened with a Sandman graphic novel I was encouraged to write, too, using the Hector Hall version, from Infinity, Inc., of the 1970s “Dream Stream” hero who’d been written by Joe Simon and drawn by Jack Kirby. Eventually, Jenette Kahn supposedly nixed it with a casual dismissal. This is right before or as Neil Gaiman came along. I volunteered to change the name of the hero to Hourman… it would’ve worked just as well… but it was no go. One day everything’s going along smoothly, then suddenly another county is heard from. Some of this was the result of doing comics by committee, a process I hated then and truly despise now. There’s no substitute for just having a good editor make those decisions. If you let the sales department make them, as increasingly

THOMAS: It should have been Carmine, no doubt about it. But George called, or rather his wife did, looking for work… and since it was easy to do that one in a hurry because the story already existed, I gave it to him.

Carmine, of course, did “Adam Strange.” There are a few other stories I wish had gone to other people. I wanted Joe Kubert or one of his sons to draw “Hawkman,” but they weren’t available. Things weren’t perfect, but over the 30 or so issues I wrote of Secret Origins, I got to work with Boring, Rogers, Colan, Bair, Tuska, Anderson, Kane, and other excellent artists. We even had a partial-Kirby cover! Not too shabby.

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

happened, you’re in for trouble, because they, even more than the writers and artists and editors, are always looking for last year’s hit.

So, by this time, I started getting ready for my post-DC life, as I once had for my post-Marvel life. Only thing was, it was virtually a twocompany field then, and I couldn’t go back to Marvel because of the situation with Shooter. I continued to get some work from DC for two or three years after my contract ran out in late ’86—but mostly I was just continuing my movement toward the outer edge of the galaxy. I can’t say I really had much interest in being at DC any longer. Oh, I liked working with their characters, and getting paid is always nice, but I no longer cared about DC as an entity. They’d pretty much cured me of that.

JA: Also, there are younger people in there who were not Len and Marv and Dick, with whom you had a long history, and maybe there was a little ageism going on.

THOMAS: Well, I heard later that Jenette said she didn’t want any writers or editors over thirty. Of course, Joe Orlando was over thirty, but he told one artist that he was the exception to that rule. Before long, Jenette was over thirty, too, but somehow or other, she got grandfathered in, like Joe. I don’t know if Gerry Conway made up the adage or not, but he used to be fond of saying: “Man is a rational animal. He can rationalize anything he does.” [mutual laughter] I think that just about sums it up.

“The Crimson Avenger Had Some Real Possibilities”

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JA: I’m sure I saw his name in a letters page.

THOMAS: If you ever remember what issue that was, let me know, because I’m sure not aware of it. Maybe he wrote a letter and somehow I didn’t recognize the name or thought it must be some other Greg Brooks.

The one other thing I remember is hearing that one DC editor, whose name I won’t mention, hung a hammer on a wall at DC and scrawled under it: “The Greg Brooks Memorial Hammer.” I could never have any respect for anyone who did that. Such a despicable, unfeeling thing to do.

“Dann Was… Crucial” JA: Did anyone at DC ever give you trouble about you and Dann being a team?

THOMAS: If they did, I never heard about it… but then again, I wouldn’t have, would I? If it was used against me, well, that was just politics as usual up there. Dann and I did some pretty good work together.

JA: What made me think about it was that I know Mike Grell was doing Warlord, and his then-wife Sharon was doing a lot of writing, but they didn’t put her name on it because he didn’t know how they would take it at DC. He didn’t tell them for a long time.

THOMAS: Can’t say as I blame him. But that’s not my way. Even before Dann was getting a “co-writer” byline, I gave her co-plotting credit in many of the books almost from the outset.

JA: Another Earth-Two character you did was the Crimson Avenger four issue mini-series. And you had a problem there, too.

THOMAS: Yes, we sure did—though of a different kind, for a change.

Dann and I were picking up from the nice reception to the story we’d done with Gene Colan in Secret Origins #6—one of our best. DC assigned a young artist named Greg Brooks to the mini-series, and he was doing a fairly good job. But then, halfway through the series, he got arrested and eventually sent to prison for murdering his wife, who was also the mother of his child. I recall talking to her once briefly on the phone when I phoned Greg, and I remember that she was singularly unpleasant to me for no reason I could discern. I never met Greg, didn’t really know him, but he did reasonably interesting work with a heavy Toth influence, though I’d have preferred Colan. Mike Gustovich ended up finishing the run. That was another project Dann and I did very much together—which made sense, because so much of the plotting and dialogue on the Secret Origins tale had been hers. I had mostly edited and added the parts dealing with the 1938 Orson Welles “Invasion from Mars” broadcast. The Crimson Avenger had some real possibilities, but I guess it was a cursed project. By that point, I’d almost begun to believe that my whole tenure at DC was a doomed project, but I was far from willing to give up on it, because there were so many up-sides to it, as well!

JA: I’ll tell you something about Greg Brooks. He had gotten friendly with Alex Toth, and Alex used to tell me about how nice his girlfriend sounded, and how sweet she was. He said they seemed very much in love and got married. He talked to both of them a number of times… and then of course when he heard the news, he called me to tell me about it.

He just couldn’t believe it. I know it was a great sadness for him.

THOMAS: I heard it was a fit of anger or passion… and that the murder weapon was a hammer.

JA: That was the way I understood it, yes. I know that at one point, when Brooks was in prison, he tried to contact Alex, and Alex didn’t want to deal with him after what had happened. But he wrote a letter that you printed in Alter Ego, I believe.

THOMAS: Greg Brooks?

Get The Red Out! House ad for the Crimson Avenger limited series, from a May 1988 DC comic.

Art by Greg Brooks. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

JA: Were there any particular characters on which you got additional input from Dann because maybe she had a special liking for that character? For instance, one that she helped create?

assignment to DC that I hadn’t at least rewritten. The closest to a DC series being “all-Dann’s” would’ve been Jonni Thunder, a.k.a.

Thunderbolt, I suppose—but even there I was fairly heavily involved.

THOMAS: I’m sure Dann had her favorites… and of course she was partly the model for Danette Reilly, the retro Firebrand in All-Star Squadron, but that was my idea, not hers. As I said earlier, she had a powerful hand in Arak and in Infinity, Inc. from beginning to end… and on the Jonni Thunder mini-series. I felt she gave me added insight into women characters, though she doesn’t really think like most women. For instance, she’s never really been one for hanging out with “girlfriends” the way many women do. Of course, there are other ways for a guy to achieve insight into writing women. Chris Claremont certainly managed it in X-Men, and Marv in Teen Titans. I wasn’t afraid to go it alone in that area; but I liked working with Dann.

JA: On Jonni Thunder, whose idea was it to do the character, and take the name and make it a woman?

She also did a lot of research for the comics—on history and legends for Arak, on science and technology for Infinity. Whether or not to utilize any particular bit of her research was entirely my decision, of course, but she was a valuable resource. I still have lots of the sheets she typed up. When we did Avengers West Coast for Marvel a few years later, she was invaluable on the L.A. research, since she’d lived there all her life—so that the second half of that series’ issues, which we wrote, had a much more authentic Southern California feel than anything in the first half. I remember her coming up with things for Arak from the Arabian Nights and other Near Eastern pre-Muslim myths. The legendary Charlemagne magician Malagigi was my contribution… but the Leo McKern likeness may well have been hers.

THOMAS: I don’t remember the exact details. Gerry Conway is listed as the co-creator of that character. I think he may have suggested the name and maybe even the detective theme, but otherwise he didn’t care to be involved. I’m the one who’d introduced Dann to the Philip Marlowe novels of Ramond Chandler… but then she read virtually all of them, while I’ve only read two or three. Originally the artist was to have been Ernie Colón, but when he withdrew to work on another project, Dick said, “I want to draw it!” I said, great. So I was the book’s editor—but of course he was both the artist and DC’s managing editor. It worked out ideally as a collaboration… no problems at all. A time or two, later, we tried to interest DC in continuing the character, but while it wasn’t a bomb, I guess it didn’t well sell enough to interest them.

Dann was also crucial in that, once Gerry and I started writing movies, he and I were almost never without a film assignment for three or four years running, and I could never have kept up my comics workload without her. Having Gerry as a partner in one field, and Dann in another, worked out perfectly for me. Of course, Gerry and I also worked together on a few comics projects, especially the ones for Atari. But I never turned in a comics

Private Guys—Public Art (Above:) The original artist for Jonni Thunder, a.k.a. Thunderbolt was to have been Ernie Colón, who withdrew for another project after doing just three concept drawings. All of these were printed in JT #2 (April ’85).

(Left:) Dick Giordano’s cover for Jonni Thunder #3 (May 1985) had originally been done as a poster for the series, but when a deadline loomed, he and Roy were happy to make it a cover, as well—which it became, again, of an Australian edition of Adventure, published

by Federal Comics of New South Wales. Thanks to Shane Foley. [©2011 DC Comics.]

(Right:) Dick’s love of Dashiell Hammett’s landmark 1930 novel The Maltese Falcon is clear from this drawing he did, only a year or two before he died, of a splash page for a projected adaptation of the book he and Roy had hoped to do. [Art ©2010 Estate of Dick Giordano.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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JA: Dick was more than just an editor by this time, so I’m slightly surprised. Was he trying to keep his hand in the art?

THOMAS: Dick liked drawing, especially women, and he liked Chandler, and I know that The Maltese Falcon [by Dashiell Hammett] was one of his favorite novels… so he was perfect for Jonni Thunder, just as he had been for our Dracula adaptation at Marvel a few years earlier. I’d always liked the name “Johnny Thunder,” which had been used on two totally different characters previously. Once, earlier, I’d had an idea for a modern-day American Indian called Johnny Thunder, but I don’t think I ever mentioned it to DC; and then Jonni-with-an-“i” came along. I liked the idea of the third “Johnny Thunder” being a woman. I tied them all together neatly in that “JSA/Infinity, Inc.” idea I did for DC a few years ago, which was never published.

JA: A number of times, you’ve taken a character name and completely changed the concept—like with Red Wolf at Marvel and Amazing-Man at DC. And you once proposed an AfricanAmerican Captain Marvel. Was this just trying to do new takes on names, or was this more of a socially conscious thing?

THOMAS: Probably both, although that black Captain Marvel was actually gonna be “Captain Thunder,” wasn’t he? Well, I guess I should be glad that didn’t work out, since in 1986 Dann and I would create Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt for Dennis Mallonee’s Heroic Comics, for which we’re still writing some stories. I’m about as anti-“PC” as anybody you’re likely to meet who isn’t a bigot, but I wanted to broaden the ethnic reach of comics, before it became a trend, as per the Irish Banshee and Japanese Sunfire and Canadian Wolverine at Marvel.

JA: I had a feeling there was a little bit more than just revamping character names.

THOMAS: Yes. I also wanted Dann to be able to do things on her own. Around this time, a guy named David Singer approached me to write for him. David thought he’d tied up the rights to the “T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents” characters. I still had a year or more to go on my second contract before DC and I would be technically free from each other, so I told him that if his company was still around by then, I’d take him up on it.

Quoth The Raven…

George Pérez generously gifted Dann with the original art for the splash from Wally Wood’s T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #1 (Nov. 1984); it was inked by Dave Cockrum. This is about as flawless a blending of line art and photography as you’re ever likely to see.

Dann wrote three “Raven” stories with George for the short-lived Deluxe Comics series. [Raven TM & © estate of John Carbonaro or successors in interest.]

So then, maybe at my suggestion, David offered Dann the “Raven” series in the new comic. He probably figured I’d really end up writing the story—but I wasn’t going to violate my contract in any serious way. Dann wrote several “Raven” stories with beautiful George Pérez art—and Singer was paying twice the rates DC and Marvel were, so Dann’s rate was twice what mine was! [mutual laughter] Outside of suggesting a couple of word changes, I had nothing to do with her “Raven” work. She wrote them entirely on her own, and they were well received. But that gig didn’t last long, because it turned out Singer didn’t really have the rights sewn up. I believe Dann was working on an “U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agents” story with George when everything was cancelled.

A bit later, when events worked out so that I could write for Marvel again, Dann went back to co-plotting with me at most, ’cause she figured I knew the Marvel characters a lot better than she ever would, or wanted to.

“Gerry and I… Huddled With…

Atari’s Engineers” JA: Early on, you’d done some Atari Force with Gerry Conway, including three issues of Swordquest. The fourth issue never appeared.

THOMAS: We were asked by Jenette Kahn to fly up to the Silicon Valley and meet with her and a bunch of Atari engineers, at a time when Atari

was the newest, hottest name in the new, hot field of video games. Both companies were owned by Warner, so the idea was for Gerry and me to come up with an Atari group of agents for a continuing, small-size comic to be packaged with their video games. Gerry did virtually all of that one, though I kibitzed and was officially the co-creator of Atari Force. There was a DC regular-size Atari Force comic for a little while, too. Ross Andru did the penciling on the Atari version, and Dick Giordano the inking. It was a nice-looking comic, in both incarnations.

Then came Swordquest. Gerry and I came up again and huddled with a couple of Atari’s engineers. The company had this general idea for a series of four interconnected games under the banner “Swordquest,” with a grand prize they’d promote to help sell it. A sword was to be buried somewhere in the United States, and the person who found it—working from clues that were to be imbedded in the games themselves—would get a considerable amount of money. This was based on a similar gimmick that we were told had recently been used by a book company, with clues hidden in some picture book; that had sent people scrambling all over the country in search of a buried treasure. Gerry and I immediately came up with the idea that the four games should be based on the four classical

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

May The Atari Force Be With You! The dynamic cover of the 5" by 7" Atari Force #1 (1982) for Atari & DC was penciled by Ross Andru and inked by Dick Giordano. Later, José GarciaLópez drew the standard-size Atari Force comic; seen below is a commission sketch he penciled for Todd Franklin. [Atari Force TM & ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

“elements”—earth, air, fire, and water. It was basically a rather effete sword-and-sorcery comic—Atari wouldn’t have wanted any real blood-and-guts—and George Pérez was assigned to pencil the accompanying comics, which would again be printed in a pocket size. Gerry and I split the work on this one, but I forget exactly who wrote what.

Only thing is, as I recall it, before we did the fourth comic, a real problem arose with the earlier treasure hunt thing. We were told there were lawsuits in the case of the earlier book because some overeager people hunting for the treasure were digging up people’s lawns and

demolishing property. So Atari pulled the plug on the Swordquest game before it got completed. Well, the comic book was a lot better than the game, anyway.

Truth to tell, I never played that video game or much of any other. Atari generously gave Gerry and me each copies of every game they’d done up to that point. It was a stack several feet high. Gerry loved video games, as he loved anything to do with computers, but I was what Gerry called a “technological peasant.”

I played Space Invaders once or twice and got bored… and I played some one-person video-game chess… and then the games all went into a closet till I gave them away a few years later. I’d like to think those games are worthless now, rather than rare heirlooms for which collectors will now pay thousands of dollars. If you know differently, don’t tell me!

Well, I think I may still have one of the Swordquest games in a closet… and a few of the comics. I loved the idea of working with Atari, and the rates were good, as I recall… but I just never got into playing video games, not even when the graphics got better. But hey, if you wanna play chess or poker some night, I’m your man!

The Journey To… Questworld?

George Pérez penciled and Dick Giordano inked the first 5” by 7” issue of DC/Atari’s Swordquest, which contained 48 pages of story. This one took place on Earthworld, with Waterworld, Fireworld, and Airworld still to come. Script officially by “Roy Thomas & Gerry Conway,” who co-concocted the concept, though Roy suspects he himself did at least the dialoguing on this one. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

I remember Jenette was at one of those Silicon Valley meetings, and that’s when she told Gerry and me how she wanted to sell Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew! to TV. But, to our horror, she wanted the animals all played by live humans in costumes, sort of like that Super Pup pilot years earlier. Then she smiled and added, “But I realize that not everyone shares my dream.” Well, at least she realized how nutty that notion might seem to some people—me included. Captain Carrot was optioned by CBS-TV at one point for an animated series, though, as I detailed in Alter Ego #72, and there was even a “bible” and at least one script prepared for it.

“The Captain Carrot Look” JA: Speaking of Captain Carrot, is there much you can add here to what you and Scott Shaw! covered there?

THOMAS: Not really, unless you’ve got something to bring up.

JA: I was thinking about how Chad Grothkopf wound up doing some art on the series, since he was an old-time cartoonist from the ’40s and hadn’t drawn comic books in many years.

THOMAS: I’m not sure how or why DC got in touch with him, but Scott was having trouble delivering the work on time, due to his TV animation job, and we needed to spell him. I was delighted to get a chance to work with Chad, being a huge fan of his “Hoppy the Marvel Bunny” from the ’40s. He said he’d draw me a picture of Hoppy, but never got around to it.

Luckily, Dann later bought me his cover for Animal Fair #1, featuring the Marvel Bunny, as a present. Chad’s style didn’t really work out all that well on Captain Carrot, but I’m thrilled that I got to work with him. I’m pretty sure it was DC, not me, that decided to take him off the book after a couple of issues. He was always friendly later at comics conventions.

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he also had a TV animation job. So I needed to bring in some help, and I liked the idea of working with Stan again. We’d had fun on that Millie the Model stuff in the mid-’60s. Stan adapted to the funny-animal style very well… and there were also a couple of other projects I wanted to do with him.

Jenette Kahn let it be known that she wanted a teen super-hero done in an “Archie”-type style. So Stan and I made up this group called “The Oddballs,” which she loved and DC paid us a bit of money to develop as “The Misfits”—or was it the other way around? But it all fell apart, mainly because that was around the time that Stan’s daughter was murdered, and Stan understandably couldn’t face working for quite some time. It was a very tragic situation, and not one we need to go into more detail about.

At that time I also sold DC a humor series called Thud and Blunder, ’cause they wanted a funny sword-and-sorcery strip, as well. I remember trying to get Jim Engel as artist on that one, but though they paid a stipend up front, somehow nothing ever went very far on that project, either.

JA: You also worked with Mike Sekowsky, who was out in LA. THOMAS: Yeah. Mike hadn’t worked out all that well doing “The Inhumans” and a couple of other stories for Marvel in the ’70s, but it was irresistible to see if we could work something out. I hated to see him not getting any comics work, and he’d done a lot of humor for Timely in the ’40s, so I thought it might work out. It did… but just barely. Mike either

JA: Did you have much in-person communication with DC, or was it mostly by phone?

THOMAS: Mostly by phone… but since there were several artists and writers working for DC in the L.A. area, Dick flew out there every couple of months, I think it was, to talk with us, mostly on an individual basis.

DC set him up with an office right across the street from the main Warner lot… which was an area I knew, since a few years earlier I’d lived in an apartment complex just up the hill from there. Pat Bastienne, as Dick’s assistant and DC editorial coordinator, came sometimes, too.

Between Dick and the meetings Gerry and I had with movie producers, we saw a fair amount of the Warner lot during that period.

I remember that once I had a lunch appointment with Dick. I show up on schedule and we’re just heading out when this young artist—not anyone I’ve mentioned in this interview—comes strolling in, his art briefcase under his arm, and proudly announces, “I’m here!” Dick stops and looks at him and says, “Yes, but you’re 24 hours late. You were supposed to be here yesterday.” The guy makes some feeble excuse… he seemed surprised at Dick’s attitude, but I could tell that Dick was teed off at the disrespect the guy had shown him and the company by doing that.

Finally Dick cut him short and said, “Look, if you’re still here when we get back from lunch, I’ll talk to you.” And then we walked. I think people like that need to be treated that way. I don’t believe this young guy—who really did have a lot of talent—ever shaped up enough to make it in the field. I hope he shaped up, though.

JA: You had Stan Goldberg drawing Captain Carrot at one stage, because his Archie work had slowed down.

THOMAS: Yes. As I said, Scott had deadline troubles, because

Hanging Chad “Chad,” full name Chad Grothkopf, once the “Marvel Bunny” artist for Fawcett, inked the above splash page penciled by Scott Shaw! for Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew! #6 (July 1982). At this time, Dave Manak was the mag’s editor. [©2011 DC Comics.]

In the photo, Chad (on our right) and Roy are seen on a panel together at a comics convention some years back. Thanks to David Siegel.

See Scott Shaw! on p. 97

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

couldn’t or wouldn’t make any adjustments in his style to match the Captain Carrot look, the way Stan had been able to.

I was still busy with screenplays as well as comics, so I got E. Four On The Floor Nelson Roy, Dann, TV and comics writer Mark Evanier, and DC Bridwell to do editorial coordinator Pat Bastienne at a 1980s comic-con. a bit of plotting on Captain Carrot. With the revolving door of artists, maybe I was also just personally running out of steam on the series, I don’t know. I’d really loved it when we started off! And, for a little while, Jenette had let everyone know that Captain Carrot was her favorite DC series. But her enthusiasms tended to be short-lived.

JA: Nick Cuti and Joey Cavalieri did some writing towards the end.

THOMAS: Right. Jenette suggested Joey, and he worked out well.

JA: And you used Alfredo Alcala, who one wouldn’t immediately think of doing Captain Carrot.

THOMAS: He actually penciled the second issue. Alfredo had a nice style for funny-animal work. He used to draw this monkey that always cracked me up. He was supposed to get Scott ahead, but Scott liked his pencils so much that he insisted on inking them—so we didn’t gain much time on #3.

Dann and I have the original art for a page from that issue in our kitchen, where we have our little collection of “rabbit art” hanging up—Sam Grainger’s original protoCaptain Carrot drawings, Chad’s Marvel Bunny cover for Animal Fair #1, two pages by Carol Lay from The Oz-Wonderland War….

do just a limited series with him instead. So I moved up the “OzWonderland War” story I’d intended to make part of the regular series, only to decide to have Nelson Bridwell write it instead. I’ve read many of the Oz books, but I knew that Nelson knew that stuff backward and forward; in addition, he really needed the work, while I was too busy by half, between comics and screenplays.

Carol Lay did a wonderful job on the artwork, although she constantly complained about Nelson’s writing. She wound up rewriting some of his dialogue, which I reluctantly went along with because she was so important to the series. But I think we covered that mini-series pretty thoroughly in Alter Ego #72, and I’d hate to just repeat it here. [shouting as if to the readers] Hey, buy the back issue already!

“I Was Both Blessed And Cursed” JA: Were the initial sales on Captain Carrot good?

THOMAS: I don’t recall precise figures, but I think all my new series started out at least fairly well, as I mentioned with regard to All-Star Squadron and Arak.

I was both blessed and cursed, I guess, to stumble so easily into writing movies, and even into bringing Gerry along with me—because he wanted to write screenplays a lot more than I ever did. I say I was lucky because, while I was still living in New York, my new friend Clara [later Clair] Noto, who’d been a film editor in Hollywood and was working at being a screenwriter, introduced me to her agent. Clair and I had come up with a Red Sonja-type character she named Lilak—John Buscema even drew a picture of her that was printed in A/E #15—so she introduced me to her agent, and the next thing you knew, I had a New York agent. Well, as it happened, that agency—Writers and Artists, it was called—was really the Eastern branch of a Hollywood agency, so when I arrived in L.A. in mid1976, I already had an agent there, as well… a situation lots of writers would have (and probably have) killed for. Some months after that, Star Wars happened, which led to the kind of pop-culture explosion in movies which is still continuing today. The W&A agent assigned to me at the time told me, “You’re going to be very rich.” Well, that never quite

JA: Rick Hoberg drew some Captain Carrot, too, in the later issues.

THOMAS: Rick was and is a real talent. He did some truly fine work on All-Star Squadron and Captain Carrot. He was ideal for the issue that guest-starred The Changeling [from New Teen Titans]. But Captain Carrot was slowing down saleswise by that point, and the sales people seemed to want to

How Much Wuz A Wuz-Wolf If A Wuz-Wolf Was A Wolf?

The Zoo Crew face the dreaded Wuz-Wolf, formerly Wolfie, nemesis of one-time DC funny-animal star Peter Porkchops, who’s seen trussed up on the table at right. Peter, of course, had become the alter ego of none other than Pig-Iron. Roy Thomas & E. Nelson Bridwell, co-writers; Stan Goldberg, penciler; Al Gordon, inker. [©2011 DC Comics.]

On the right, ace A/E interviewer Jim Amash kibitzes as Stan G. greets fans at the New York Comic-Con in February 2008.

Photo by assistant editor Steve Oswald—with Jim's camera.

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

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happened, but Gerry and I made enough dough out of the movies in the first half of the ’80s that Dann and I remodeled our house with it—and screenwriting half-derailed me from comics for a while. But eventually, as things dried up in the movie biz, I was halfway happy to go back to comics full-time.

Gerry, who later made a great career for himself in TV, took it more seriously than I did, which is undoubtedly the right approach. Back in the early ’80s he was always after me to go out with him and schmooze with Hollywood types in the evenings, ’cause that’s one of the main ways you get work… you network. That made sense. But I said to him, “Hell, Gerry, I don’t even like seeing most of these people in the daytime. Why would I want to hang around with them at night?” Eventually Gerry and I went our separate ways, and we’ve both done okay.

We were fairly good together, too—but we were also lucky. And you know what they say: it’s even better to be lucky than to be good.

JA: Often, being lucky pays more than being good. Talking about writers, did you give Nelson Bridwell work on Captain Carrot because he’d written The Inferior 5?

THOMAS: Partly. I wasn’t always entirely happy with his dialogue, but he had good plot ideas, and I figured I could spruce up the dialogue. But then I realized that if I was going to spend much time rewriting him, it negated the purpose of having him script the book in the first place. But I think he did a good job, by and large. He plotted a good “Secret Origin of Dr. Occult” for me, too.

As for the subject matter of The Oz-Wonderland War that Nelson scripted—well, I’ve always liked writing about wars, ever since I read The Iliad. I did the Kree-Skrull War in The Avengers, that War of the Tarim in Conan, World War II in The Invaders and All-Star Squadron. As for Captain Carrot, I wish DC would finally come out with that Showcase Presents collection they announced several years ago. It was going to reprint the whole series except for The Oz-Wonderland War. They paid me up-front royalties, a fairly hefty sum… but then, due to some kind of confusion over early-’80s contracts, they never came out with the book.

Instead, in that recent Captain Carrot series, they got rid of the entire Zoo Crew by turning them into real animals at the end, in our world. I know that [writer] Bill Morrison and [artist] Scott Shaw! were forced to do that; probably somebody at DC wanted to create their own funnyanimal group… so naturally, you’ve got to kill off the other guys’, right?

Lord, what a disgusting thing much of the comics field has devolved into!

Especially now as it merges more and more with Hollywood, and takes on ever more of Tinseltown’s worst aspects. And, despite my relatively few years in the movie and TV vineyards, I know whereof I speak.

JA: Once, when nobody cared about being famous, there was never any proprietary interest in a series or characters, and people didn’t act that way.

THOMAS: Right. It was a far from perfect world—you always had your Kanighers and Weisingers and even worse, talented guys whose competitive instincts were very destructive. But today there’s so much more at stake. So, much as I love writing comics, that field isn’t really there for me, either, and not only because of my “advanced age.” Hell, if I decided in 1976 that I didn’t really want to go back to being Marvel’s editor-in-chief, how would I feel today? That’s not to say there aren’t plenty of talented people in comics now, of course. It’s just the warping of the field I despise… moving it toward “event publishing,” in keeping with the way movies now are. Yech!

War Is Heck This page from The Oz-Wonderland War #2 (Jan. 1986) shows how well underground cartoonist Carol Lay handled the triple worlds of Captain Carrot, Oz, and Wonderland. Dorothy is based on drawings by John R. Neill, the artist who illustrated many of the L. Frank Baum (and others’) Oz books that followed The Wizard of Oz… while the Queen of Hearts and her entourage are from the John Tenniel illustrations for Alice in Wonderland.

Story by E. Nelson Bridwell; script by Joey Cavalieri; art (as well as lettering and even some “additional dialogue”) by Carol Lay, from Roy’s initial concept. A real team effort! [©2011 DC Comics.]

Dick Sprang’s take on Bob Kane’s style. Still, there’s a side of me that would like to agree with Kanigher on this one.

JA: I wasn’t totally sold on it, but I was curious of what your opinion was since you’ve worked on concepts created by other people, plus you’ve created things that you’ve seen handled by other people later. If you’ve created something and they want to revive it, you naturally want to go back to the series if you still have an interest or a love for it.

THOMAS: Yeah, but there’s no way to prove which version of “Batman” or anything else is “best.” What worked in 1939 won’t work in 1960, or in the ’80s or today. Everything has its time and place. Is Neal Adams’ “Batman” better than Kane’s or Sprang’s? No. It’s just different, perhaps more to modern tastes… and aimed at older readers than the kids who bought the early comics… but that’s not the same as being “better.”

JA: Bob Kanigher said that, in his opinion, nobody could equal the creator on a series. Do you agree with that?

JA: While you were at DC, you had to tie books like All-Star Squadron to Crisis, and then there were the Legends and Millennium series.

Outside of Crisis, how did you feel about going along with that stuff?

THOMAS: I think there’s no rule that’s always true. Obviously, the creator makes up sort of a definitive version of a character. But sometimes, someone comes along and does something better—like, in my opinion,

THOMAS: The other two were fun, and I had no qualms like I had about Crisis. Legends was a sort of lead-in to Shazam! The New Beginning, and

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

“[Mike Gold] Suggested That Gil [Kane] And I Adapt The Ring Cycle” JA: That brings us, at last, to The Ring of the Nibelung. I’d like to know how that series got started. You went back to your old friend and collaborator Gil Kane, whom you didn’t work that much with in the ’80s.

THOMAS: Gil and I wanted to do various projects together, and he and I and our wives got together for dinner every couple of months. Gil was big on Richard Wagner’s Ring Cycle of operas, and so was I—except that, until the ’70s, I’d only read the libretto. It was the words, not the music, that grabbed me, until I attended a number of operas at the Metropolitan in New York in the ’70s. I saw all four Ring operas at the Met—in order, yet—and I took Gil as my guest to one of them. Unfortunately, he had to leave before it was over, to catch the last train home to Connecticut. That was a great mounting of the Ring Cycle—the characters were dressed like Vikings and gods and Valkyries, not like Victorian slum-dwellers or other “modern” approaches I’d read about and loathed from afar.

“Repent, Harlequin!” Said—Oh, We Used That Heading Already?

Infinity, Inc. #46 (Jan. 1988), a “Millennium – Week 3” crossover, introduced a brand new Harlequin, whom Roy believes penciler Vince Argondezzi gave a right nifty costume. Harlequin, in reality Obsidian’s girlfriend Marcie Cooper, was in real reality an agent of the evil Manhunters who were the focus of DC’s Millennium limited series. Script by Roy & Dann, inking by Tony DeZuniga. [©2011 DC Comics.]

was supposed to lead to an ongoing Shazam! title Dann and I would write. I had fun with the Millennium series in both Infinity, Inc., where we made up a new Harlequin, and in Secret Origins, where I wrote an entire double-size issue as a backstory to the Manhunters… including explaining why there were two Manhunters in the DC Universe in the 1940s. The real-world explanation, of course, was that Simon & Kirby had revamped DC’s plainclothes character 15 seconds after Quality had introduced its own hero with that name. The most fun was turning the Quality Manhunter’s dog Thor into a robot working for the celestial Manhunters.

The only one of those series I’d have liked to undo retroactively was Crisis, no matter how well it was handled by Marv and George. And even there, once I was aboard on Crisis, I threw myself into it… mostly because I took DC at its word that I’d be allowed to continue using Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in World War II adventures after it was over… the more fool me. I wrote lots of notes that were helpful to Marv and George; a number of them are reprinted in the omnibus collection of Crisis.

But, all through it, I had to do a lot of gritting of teeth… despite the fact that I made extra money, for myself and for the artists, by having as many connected issues of Infinity, Inc. and even All-Star Squadron as possible.

Actually, it was DC editor Mike Gold, who’d gone back to DC after he’d co-founded First Comics and that had gone sour on him, who phoned me and suggested that Gil and I adapt the Ring Cycle as a graphic novel, or series of graphic novels, however you count it. I guess he’d have used the term “prestige-format books” then. Mike proposed Gil and me as the team from the start, and that was fine by me.

Once again, though, flies came to rest in the ointment. I guess there always are problems in comics, but it seemed to me like there were far more of them at DC than there’d been at Marvel. First, Mike Gold bailed on the project. Maybe he was just too busy, but I forget the reason, if I ever knew it. The same thing had happened with the Alter Ego comic book I’d written at First a couple of years earlier, right after my DC contract had expired; in both cases, Mike got things going, then wandered off, and in both cases I got an editor I was less sympathetic to, and who was less sympathetic to me. With The Ring, that editor was Andy Helfer.

And, although Andy and his crew did a good job in framing the four issues and the collection—the covers, the introductory material, and the

JA: You also did your own letters pages at DC, as you had at Marvel.

THOMAS: Len and Dick were quite happy to have me do them from the start, even before I became a writer/editor. In All-Star Squadron I didn’t like the name “All-Star Comments,” which had been fine for the earlier revival of AllStar Comics. I wanted to call it “All Star Squadroom”… and I did, the minute I became editor. Got a Trylon and Perisphere on the masthead and everything. I’d been handling my own letters pages ever since at least my second or third Sgt. Fury and X-Men issues back in the ’60s. The later ones at Marvel, and then at DC, gave me, increasingly, the chance to tell all the behind-the-scenes things that I hoped the readers would want to know, because they were kinds of thing I’d have wanted to know. Of course, I knew more about my part in those books than I did about the artists’ point-of-view.

Wear My Ring Around Your Neck The late great Gil Kane (in the photo that appeared in DC’s The Ring of the Nibelung)—and his cover for Vol. 3 of The Ring. The coloring by Jim Woodring, who’d become a friend of Gil’s in L.A., was exquisite. [©2011 DC Comics.]

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

59

like—we came to occasional verbal blows about the interiors. The one pleasant experience I ever had with Andy Helfer was from afar: I was told

by DC that he was the guy who came up earlier with the name “Zoo Crew,” which I loved—it’s been the license plate on our car for years! That was the sole peak in our never-ending valley of a professional relationship.

Although he should have known better going in, Andy thought he was going to have a lot of editorial control over the story, and I was equally determined that wasn’t going to happen.

Things went well between Gil and me, after a minor glitch at the start.

Gil wanted to bring in elements from two tellings of Norse or Teutonic myth that Wagner had used as his sources for The Ring: The Volsung Saga and The Nibelungenlied. But there were divergencies between those old epics and what Wagner did with them. The Nibelungenlied, for instance, had no supernatural aspect—I forget if The Volsung Saga did— and there were considerable differences in the three versions. And that doesn’t count the two Eddas, another source of Norse myth. I insisted that, since our graphic novel was to be called The Ring of the Nibelung, we do the operas and nothing but the operas. That may actually be a battle I won while Mike was still on board… I forget. Later, Gil told me how happy he was in retrospect that I’d overruled him on that aspect, because, as he realized, we’d never have gotten the excellent reviews we did from opera critics—and there were several of them—if we’d mixed in those other two epics. “My boy,” he said, “you saved me there!”

Gil did make one great improvement in my first outline. Wagner begins the first opera, The Rhinegold, with a long musical note, with other musical themes then clustering about it, building on it. This was meant to suggest the creation of the world. I decided we should tell the story of those beginnings—the formation of the gods, the creation of man, and the like. I wrote it all out as seven pages of panels. Gil turned that into a series of full-page shots, each one representing a different aspect of the creation myth, to which I just added captions. That worked out far better—we got through everything faster and more dramatically.

Gil and I both worked hard on that series. I had three different English-language editions of the operas open at all times when writing the scripts, and I had to lean heavily on the one of those that was in the public domain, of course. I also had a German edition lying there, in case I needed to check out the original word used by Wagner. And I played my recordings of the operas over and over and over. That drove my mynah bird Spike crazy. She hated Wagner and would start making shrill, loud noises as soon as I put the record on. In Spike’s defense, though, she adored Artie Shaw and would sing along with his “Begin the Beguine.”

JA: What kind of problems did you have after Helfer became editor?

THOMAS: You mean besides the fact that, in the first volume, when I proofread and found two balloons going to the wrong people, I phoned in about it right away but they didn’t get around to changing it, even though there was ample time? As far as I’m concerned, that’s about the only thing Helfer really affected regarding the actual story—and it was totally wrong.

It could’ve been much worse, though. The second opera, The Valkyrie, begins with the warrior Siegmund stomping into a house he comes to while fleeing from enemies, as Wagner has him clarify later to his hosts.

Gil and I had this idea to start off with several pages of Siegmund fleeing on horseback, reaching the edge of a cliff, and jumping off into raging waters… then climbing out and stumbling to this strange house built around a huge tree. Gil drew it, and it worked beautifully, whether or not you’re playing the overture from The Valkyrie as accompaniment; our scene was intended as the visual equivalent of the overture. Well, after it’s all written and drawn—with the first dialogue being Siegmund’s on entering the house—Andy called me up. No, wait—he had an assistant call me up, because by this point we were no longer speaking directly to each other. His choice, not mine; never in my life did I refuse to speak to an editor. I was told that Andy wanted me to add captions to those introductory pages. When I said I’d rather not, the assistant was insistent. I

In The Beginning…

One of the seven gorgeous pages (which includes a couple of two-page spreads) from the early pages of The Rhinegold which Gil Kane devised to tell the Norse/Teutonic story of the creation of the world and mankind. [©2011 DC Comics.]

finally told him that not only wouldn’t I do it, but if Andy added anything to those pages on his own, I’d not only voice my complaints to the DC brass, but to the fan press and to anybody else, about them screwing up the adaptation. They backed off, but from that time I doubt if I had much communication even from Andy’s assistant. I hadn’t wanted it that way, but I wasn’t about to take orders from someone who didn’t know the operas and who hadn’t had the vision to want to adapt them in the first place. None of that would’ve happened if Mike Gold had stuck around.

Out of the period when we were doing The Rhinegold came this stupid story Andy told people about how, once when I was talking to him on the phone, he went away to the bathroom, and when he came back, I was still talking and hadn’t noticed he’d been gone. Oddly, Julie Schwartz later told the same story in his autobiography, only in that case it was Julie who went to the bathroom. Whatever problems these DC editors had with their bladders, neither of those things ever happened. It was just part of the bull**** that increasingly went along with working for DC in those days. When I confronted Julie about it, he just laughed and said, “Well, it’s my book, so I’m the one who gets to go to the bathroom.” Sure, I talk a lot… but that crap never happened, and I never found the tale amusing.

The only place where Gil deviated—and it was a minor thing—was in the fourth book. Siegfried and his horse are supposed to be floating down

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

a river on a raft, but Gil just drew him riding—no big deal, so I didn’t push him to change it. Oh, and I think at one place he tossed in an extra panel or two of talk that I had to fake, but that’s it.

The one problem I had with Gil where I couldn’t prevail was in the depiction of Siegfried. Siegfried’s, like, a teenager—a very young Conan, if you will, though without as much muscle—and Gil drew him to look in his late 20s or maybe 30. P. Craig Russell had got the age bit right in his earlier graphic adaptation of a section of Siegfried, even if I felt Russell’s rendering of Siegfried was far too effete, too fey, and very un-Wagnerian, and I felt he kept far too little of Wagner’s dialogue/lyrics. But I had to go along with Gil’s concept of how Siegfried looked, and there were no complaints, not even from the opera critics. Hey, they’re used to seeing Siegfried played by overweight middle-aged guys, right?

Years later, Craig Russell finished his own adaptation of The Ring, and it probably got more fan acclaim than Gil’s and mine. That’s what makes horse-racing. But again, I felt the libretto wasn’t as well adapted. Russell’s a fine artist; I just don’t feel he was as good on the story elements as on the art.

As for our Ring—the big problem, really, was Gil’s health.

JA: Was that when his cancer started?

THOMAS: Yes, although I didn’t know it at the time. Gil got a bit paranoid, understandably, about the possibility of DC finding out and getting someone else to finish the last book of The Ring. Since he and I were good friends, I was crushed that he didn’t tell me until very late… I could’ve been his greatest ally there, and still kept his secret. But I can see how he was terrified that somebody would let something slip to DC. There were some delays on Gil’s part which at the time I was hardpressed to understand, let alone defend, because I didn’t know why they were happening. The only thing apparent in the published material, though, is that some pages in the fourth book, The Twilight of the Gods, were inked by Alfredo Alcala, whom DC put on Gil’s pencils—though Alfredo did a pretty good job of matching Gil’s style. I was never really big on Gil’s inking, as you know… but I never made any fuss about that on The Ring, because it meant a lot to Gil to do the whole art job, and anyway, that was the deal from the start. I do think the art turned out very well.

“You Can Hear The Music That Accompanies It” JA: I thought it was a lovely-looking series, and it was some of Gil’s better inking. Sometimes, I was not crazy about his inking with those markers.

THOMAS: No, but he didn’t do that in The Ring, did he? He latched onto the markers for speed at one point in his career, and while it may have helped his speed, I think it hurt the look.

JA: The one thing I will say in defense of Gil’s inking is that he had a nice, decorative look that a lot of inkers didn’t follow. For instance, the way Gil would wrap lines around muscle structures. Some less conscientious inkers would not understand that it was decoration as much as it was function. If Gil had been a slicker inker, I think the work would have been served better and we wouldn’t have lost some of the decoration in his work that some inkers would do. That was my feeling.

THOMAS: I’ll go along with that.

JA: I get the impression that you were more heavily plotting at DC versus your plotting stories at Marvel. I know when you and Gil worked together in the ’70s, there was a fair amount of give-and-take as far as plotting.

THOMAS: In The Ring, I felt my job was basically to keep Gil on track,

Come On’A My House The fourth of four silent pages that Gil drew to show, rather than merely tell, the backstory of how Siegmund came to the tree-embedded home of Hunding and his unhappy wife Sieglinda—who of course will just happen to turn out to be Siegmund’s long-lost twin sister, and ultimately the mother of Siegfried. (Maybe we should’ve attached a “spoiler warning” to the head of this paragraph?) Try playing the overture to The Valkyrie, the second opera of Wagner’s Ring Cycle, while perusing those four pages; it works, honest! [©2011 DC Comics.]

so he could do the wonderful art job that he did. We got together for lunch at least once for each of the four books. By then he’d moved to L.A., and we’d talk things through. I don’t recall how much I wrote in terms of plots—probably not much, maybe in the later issues nothing at all. We resolved everything during those lunches, and except for that raft thing, he followed the operas pretty much to the letter.

JA: I thought it was a very nicely packaged series.

THOMAS: Yes. Andy and his gang—hey, that’d be a good name for a TV show sometime!—did a very good job on packaging the graphic novel, I’ll give them their due on that. They had one crazy statement in the editorial text that said that “we”—which clearly included Gil and me—felt that we had “overcome all the obstacles” involved in turning The Ring into graphic-story form, and I thought that was silly and arrogant, but it was minor. The covers and presentation they did were good, they oversaw the coloring well—I had little or nothing to do with that—and, hey, they printed the pages in order, even if they didn’t correct those two word balloons in The Rhinegold. That’s all I wanted from an editor.

“I Want To Do It All Again!”

61

Out Of The Dying Dragon—And Into The Fire (Above & right) The titular hero of Siegfried finishes slaying the dragon Fafnir— and soon wakes the Valkryie Brünnhilde from her enchanted sleep amid a ring of fire. The Ring of the Nibelung was a true Gil Kane tour de force. [©2011 DC Comics.]

There were two nearly identical editions of the collected Ring graphic novel: one published by DC and one by Warner Books. I don’t know why, or how they sold, but early plans to try to market them to opera stores and opera book services and the like… well, DC never really followed through on that plan of theirs, so far as I know. Too bad, too, because we got great notices from opera critics in The New York Times and in The Opera News and from a reviewer named Stephanie von Buchau in the Oakland Tribune Sunday Magazine out in California.

They were all astonished by the fidelity of the adaptation, both in terms of words and art. I was especially touched by von Buchau’s statement that, as writer, I had—and I’m reading from the quotation on the back of the graphic collection now— “managed a rhythmic translation so colloquial that as you read his dialogue, you can hear the music that accompanies it; the cadences, even the pauses, were chosen by someone who loves and respects Wagner’s score.” That meant a lot to me, because that was exactly what I was trying to do, working with four written librettos and with the operas playing over and over in the background.

However, in the end, our Ring came and went, made its little impression, and eventually went out of print. A decade later, I’m signing comics at the Heroes Convention I go to every year in Charlotte, North Carolina, and some guy plops a Ring book down in front of me to sign.

Right away I see the cover is a bit different from either the DC or Warner version… and, checking the publishing information, I realize DC had sold the reprint rights to this company called ExPress years before. Soon

Tragedy Tonight (Left:) The death of Siegfried—from the final volume, The Twilight of the Gods. Art

by Gil Kane, words by Roy T.—and Richard Wagner, of course. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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Roy Thomas Talks About The 1980s At DC

Let’s See What’s On Cable…

(Right:) Ye Editor prefers to bookend this interview with one of the great covers Jerry Ordway drew for comics they worked on together in the 1980s— reproduced from a photocopy sent by Jerry of the original art for that of AllStar Squadron #27 (Nov. 1983)—one of his best, if it’s possible to choose from between so many. [©2011 DC Comics.]

as the weekend’s over, I’m on the horn to DC asking about Gil’s and my royalties on this edition. After they look into it and realize that somehow the little matter of our royalties had slipped through the cracks for several years, DC sent us checks, and they were fairly substantial. Unfortunately, Gil had passed away by then, but they paid his widow Elaine.

That reminded me of what my old New York buddy Phil Seuling used to say about the contrast between dealing with Marvel and DC. He said that, if he was owed money for something, he always got his dough from Marvel, but he might have to chase them down and keep reminding them about it. “But DC,” he said, “will track you down at midnight in a dark coal mine to give you a check for a dollar.”

JA: As we wind this up, I wanted to ask—may I assume your favorite series to write at DC was All-Star Squadron?

THOMAS: It was my favorite series to write of all time. It took me a while to realize that. I don’t know if I totally felt that way at the time, but as I look back now, I know it was. Writing Conan—both Barbarian and Savage Sword—was my favorite series at Marvel, followed by The Avengers, The Invaders, and a couple of others. All-Star Squadron and Conan and The Invaders are the three series I could’ve gone on writing endlessly, for the rest of my life. I figured out the other day that, if AllStar Squadron had continued as it was going, with no cancellation, no Young All-Stars, we’d be approaching issue #300, and I’m dead positive I’d have stayed on it. Hey, for all I know, the mag might even be up to the year 1943 by now! [mutual laughter] Of course, Conan is the Marvel series I doubt if I would ever have left… and if I’d gone back to The Invaders and scripted it all myself, I could still happily be doing that, as well. Maybe in some Earth-22 I got my shot at all those things. But first among them all would’ve been AllStar Squadron.

That’s why I was so turned off, a few years ago, when DC’s chief editor suggested I write a Justice Society/Infinity, Inc. series to be drawn by Jerry Ordway, and then he tried to micromanage it… to get me to do their kind of story instead of the story I wanted to do, which of course defeated the whole point of their asking me to write it in the first place. In one sense, I walked away from that series, and I printed my proposal in Alter Ego #69… in another sense, I got a curt three-sentence kiss-off from that editor. After I wrote an e-mail to DC’s publisher about the matter, he phoned me and we had a very friendly conversation and he volunteered to look into the matter and get back to me, with an eye to our working out something. That was a couple of years ago. I’m still waiting.

A fitting footnote, I suppose, to my nearly a decade at DC. Still, in spite of all, I must repeat as we end up, in the interests of balance, that I thoroughly enjoyed doing the actual work I did there, and most of the folks I worked with; I think we turned out some decent stories together.

All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc. are still being strip-mined for Justice Society and other titles. That’s very nice, I suppose… but I guess what I’d really want is what Walter Matthau says in the movie version of Neil Simon’s Plaza Suite: “I want to do it all again!” And maybe we’d all do it better this time.

JA: [chuckles] I guess that’s a good way to end this.

THOMAS: [laughs] Better than some ways.

A Roy Thomas Checklist was published in Alter Ego #50. Of course, it’s a little out of date by now.

63

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1 A 1965 & 2011 Look Backward At The Origins Of Jerry Bails’ Epoch-Making 1961 Fanzine Original Article & 2011 Notes by Roy Thomas

A

Introduction t the risk of repeating myself—and since an impatient few among you may not read the deathless editorial on pp. 4-5:

Fifty years ago this very month—at the tail end of March 1961—Jerry G. Bails released into the U.S. mails the first, frail frigate of what would ere long become an amateur armada: the premier issue of Alter-Ego. It can be called the first true comic book fanzine… certainly the first such that had ever been devoted primarily to heroic-adventure comics. I was privileged to have been invited to be the sole other contributor to that historic little publication.

Although by then both of us were well aware of Dick & Pat Lupoff ’s 1960-birthed, mimeographed science-fiction fanzine Xero and its groundbreaking comics-nostalgia series best known as “All in Color for a Dime,” Jerry was content to put out his own zine by means of a lesser technology.

By #4, however, he would switch to photo-offset printing, a distinct improvement.

In 1962 Jerry decided to turn Alter-Ego over to artist Ronn Foss and a couple of his associates, so he himself could concentrate on other projects, such as collecting data on comics creators, the beginnings of what ultimately became the Who’s Who of American Comic Books.

In late 1962 and 1963 Ronn published issues #5 & 6, dropping the hyphen out of the title. In 1964, Ronn in turn decided to relinquish the zine’s reins to a third editor/publisher… our mutual fan-friend Bill (“Biljo”) White of Columbia, Missouri. I was slated to be Biljo’s editorial helpmeet, much as I’d been Jerry’s. However, before he really got started on what would’ve been his initial issue, Biljo decided he’d prefer simply supplying art rather than writing, editing, and overseeing the printing and mailing. Thus, at his invitation, and with a mixture of enthusiasm and reluctance, I took over Alter Ego as editor and publisher, commencing with #7, in the fall of ’64.

By the time I produced A/E #8 early the next year, despite my duties as a high school teacher in the St. Louis area, and with Jerry’s blessing, I’d decided to put together a photo-offset reprint of the best material from the first three, spirit-duplicator-printed issues. For a special feature therein, I would write “The Alter Ego Story”—“telling how super-hero fandom’s first zine was created.” (I called it “super-hero fandom” in this instance to avoid claiming any chronological priority over Don & Maggie Thompson’s mimeographed Comic Art, a fanzine devoted to comic strips and comic books as a medium; CA #1 seems to have hit the

First Look (Above:) This “house ad” from Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #8 (Winter 1965), which came out early in that year, included the first mention of the “Alter Ego Story” which Roy intended to write for a publication to be called The Bestest from Alter Ego Nos. 1-3. Art & text by RT. [©2011 Roy Thomas.]

(Left:) That art was a parody of the cover of Justice League of America #31 (Nov. 1964), the issue that had—finally!—inducted Hawkman into the group.

Pencils by Mike Sekowsky, inks by Murphy Anderson. [©2011 DC Comics.]

mails a week or so after A/E #1, but had been in the planning stages months longer. I don’t recall ever really thinking of our burgeoning movement as “super-hero fandom.” To me, it was “comic[s] fandom.”)

Of course, the ideal person to have written this recent history would have been Jerry himself, but he showed no inclination to do so. However, to assist me in scribing my tale of the origins of the fanzine, he sent me copies he had saved of most of the correspondence we had exchanged since November 1960, when we’d first contacted each other. (I wasn’t prescient enough to have made carbon copies of my own letters, or for the most part to have saved Jerry’s to me.)

I had written the piece just about to the point where we’d commenced work on the second issue before I realized that, because of my new procomics job offer in New York, The Bestest of Alter Ego Nos. 1-3 wasn’t gonna happen… at least not for a while.

As it worked out, my manuscript sat on the shelf until 1997, when my new correspondent and friend Bill Schelly, author of the landmark 1995 book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, and I decided to assemble a compilation of the best material from A/E #1-11, which had been published between 1961 and 1978. Bill’s Hamster Press would be the publisher of record; he and I would co-edit, with the blessings of and some participation by Jerry Bails and Ronn Foss.

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The Origins Of Jerry Bails’ Epoch-Making 1961 Comic Book Fanzine

To give that decades-old material context, Bill and I decided that most of my “Alter Ego Story” should be printed in our book. As indeed it was, along with my 1965 Bestest League cartoon which mentioned the proposed Bestest of Alter Ego Nos. 1-3, the first part of my initial (Nov. 3, 1960) letter to Gardner Fox, and Jerry’s thankyou note of Feb. 12, 1961, to Fox and Schwartz for their generosity to him during his New York stay. “The Alter Ego Story” was in 1997, and remains today, the most complete and accurate accounting which is ever likely to exist concerning the events culminating in the publication of Alter-Ego [Volume 1] #1.

Bill’s and my trade paperback Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine was a modest success in 1997, with some 1500 copies Portrait Of The Editor As distributed before it went out of print. In 2008 A Young Whatever TwoMorrows issued a second edition, which is (Above:) Reluctant as we are to still in print. print it yet again: a 1961 photo of This celebration of the 50th anniversary of Alter-Ego #1 seemed to cry out for inclusion of “The Alter Ego Story,” utilizing the three abovementioned art spots plus a few additional ones.

However, rather than simply reprint the text, this time I wanted to annotate it fully, examining the article in detail with the advantage of 45+ years’ worth of additional hindsight. Accordingly, below, after every unitalicized paragraph or so of the original text, you’ll find new comments by Yours Truly, written in italics [and between brackets], toned, and preceded by the bold notation “2011:”

Roy Thomas, then near to graduating from college at age 20.

(Right:) The cover of the 1997 book Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine, edited by Roy T. and Bill Schelly. That of the 2008 TwoMorrows edition is virtually identical. The second edition of this nearly-200-page trade paperback is still available from TwoMorrows [Art ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

So let’s get started. To repeat what Bill and I wrote in 1997: “Step into your time machine and set the dial for the year 1960— when Dwight D. Eisenhower was President of the United States… when the Silver Age of Comics was a-borning….”

A

lter Ego owes its existence to the Justice League of America. It’s as simple as that, actually.

Having learned to read on All-Star Comics as a child of five, I had long harbored a latent nostalgic feeling for the Justice Society and its ilk. In fact, when the last issue of All-Star had been followed by the putrid mess known as All-Star Western, I had vowed to one day possess every single issue of my favorite comic—and had, in desperation, taken up reading The Marvel Family with a new vengeance.

[2011: Too true, except that in 1965 I was way too hard on AllStar Western. It wasn’t a half-bad comic, containing as it did stories drawn by Carmine Infantino, Gil Kane, Frank Giacoia, and Alex Toth, three of whom had worked on 1947-51 “Justice Society” stories in All-Star Comics. Still, it was just another relatively undistinguished cowboy comic, while the Justice Society had been one of the most important concepts in comics history.]

So when, without fanfare, The Brave and the Bold began carrying the adventures of the JLA, I was overjoyed. After the last of the three trial issues was read and digested, I could not contain myself any longer. I wrote a letter to editor Julius Schwartz, congratulating him on his superhero comics in general, and the Justice League of America in particular.

I asked if I might know the name and address of the writer of these stories, so I could express my thanks to him in person. In that day before editors of one-shot comic fanzines had cluttered his desk with dozens of

requests every day for exclusive 10,000-word autobiographies, Julius Schwartz was kind enough to send me the home address of Gardner F. Fox—who, he added, had also written the first three dozen or so JSA tales. He also suggested that there, rather than at the National offices themselves, was the place to search for the back issues of All-Star after which I lusted so vocally.

[2011: From time to time, I’ve written that Julie sent me Gardner’s home address “unbidden”—but my 1965 memory, being only fourplus years after the fact, is doubtless far more accurate. I asked for it… and Julie obliged. Whether or not he first checked with Fox is not known to me.]

Needless to say, the mailman was still on our block when I began to type a nice long letter to Gardner Fox, lauding him for his recent JLAAmazo episode and offering to buy any old All-Stars or related comics collecting dust in his attic.

[2011: Lord knows how I’d have paid for them, being a college senior at the time. By then, I’d even given up my part-time job at the Palace Theatre in Jackson, Missouri. My only hope of financial solvency was to graduate the following summer, having gone through college in three years. Which duly occurred. The graduating, I mean… not the financial solvency.]

Fox’s reply was gracious and understanding. He stated, however, that only a few months before the decision to revive the JSA as the JLA, he had sold his remaining All-Stars to one Jerry G. Bails, with whom he had been corresponding off and on for years concerning the JSA, its authors, and its artists. He gave me, however, Jerry’s address and suggested that we might enjoy getting in touch with each other.

[2011: Since the decision to launch the Justice League had been made at least a year prior to my letters to Julie and Gardner, which followed hard on the heels of the group’s third and final newsstand try-out in The Brave and the Bold #30 (cover-dated July ’60), that tallies with my recollection, based on later seeing letters exchanged between Jerry and Gardner, that Jerry had

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1

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purchased Fox’s bound volumes of All-Star Comics #1-34 a couple of years before we got in contact with each other.]

Accordingly, on November 21, 1960—just one day before my twentieth birthday—I dashed off a letter to “Mr. Bails”: “The two of us do not know each other, but I discovered recently that we have at least one thing very much in common—we are both great devotees of the old Justice Society of America, which appeared some years ago in All-Star Comics.”

I followed this with an offer to buy any All-Stars he might be willing to sell, and an expression of a desire to read any he might be willing to loan, informed him that I was a senior at Southeast Missouri State College in Cape Girardeau and a future high school teacher, and then plopped my hopeful missive in the nearest mailbox.

On DC Street (Clockwise from above left:) The beginning of Roy Thomas’ 11-3-60 letter to Gardner Fox. (Photocopy provided by Michael T. Gilbert.)

The first letter of Roy’s that was printed in any comic book had appeared in Green Lantern #1 (July-Aug. 1960), as partly seen at right; so Julie was already familiar with his name by the time he wrote asking to be put into contact with the author of the new “Justice League of America” tales in The Brave and the Bold. Thanks to Matthew Peets. [©2011 DC Comics.]

A year after Alter-Ego #1, DC writer Gardner Fox (seen at right in above panel) and editor Julius Schwartz (center) would co-star in that odd four-color yarn “The Strange Adventure That Really Happened!” in Strange Adventures #140 (May 1962). The cigar-smoking gent at left is production chief Ed Eisenberg. Script by Fox; art by Sid Greene. Thanks to Bill Schelly. [©2011 DC Comics.]

[2011: More likely I took it to the post office. I wouldn’t have wanted to take a chance with such a valuable and urgent letter. I’m glad I dated my communications, at least; Jerry had a maddening habit of failing to date many of his own.]

A few days later, on a Saturday morning, I received in the mail two of the most pleasant surprises of my young life: a package containing worn and partially incomplete copies of All-Star Comics #4-6, and a letter from one Jerry G. Bails of Detroit, Michigan.

[2011: I’m not sure if Jerry’s letter was sent separately, or inside the package. I still remember vividly the state of the three comics:

All-Star #4 was complete except for the cover (and perhaps a missing four-page center section)… #5 was complete, cover and all, and in good condition… and #6 was minus the cover and the first and last two-sided pages of the interior, so that the first panel I saw of its story (p. 3) depicted The Flash scolding Johnny Thunder for using his Thunderbolt to try to force his way into the JSA as the speedster’s replacement. The total retail value of those three comics today would probably be something like $1000, if not more. The real shock I found in the mags was HourMan, who appeared in all three issues; I would never even have heard of him before, unless Julie had mentioned him in a recent letters column.]

After glancing for a few moments at the comics—which I had never seen before, as I had been only a few months old when they had come out—I opened the letter. It began: “Dear Roy, “I can’t begin to tell you how happy I am to find another All-Star enthusiast after all these years. I’ve been a fan since the first Justice Society adventure appeared in All-Star Comics #3 (Winter 1941). In 1945, I began my campaign to collect all the back issues of the magazine, and in 1951, when the JSA was dropped, I began my campaign for a revival of this old favorite. Just last year, as you know, my efforts finally paid off.

Now, I’m off on a new campaign—to make the Justice League of America more popular than Superman. First, I want to see the JLA published monthly; then I want to see it published as a giant edition. I hope you will join me in working for these goals.”

Across The Wide Missouri Jerry Bails in 1960, on the balcony of his Kansas City, MO, apartment, before he moved to Detroit to begin his college teaching career. Courtesy of Jean Bails.

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The Origins Of Jerry Bails’ Epoch-Making 1961 Comic Book Fanzine

[2011: Actually, as I learned later, Jerry misspoke [miswrote?] slightly in a couple of places in this letter. Besides the date of AllStar #3 being Winter of 1940—though of course that meant the winter that ended in March of ’41—he was consistent in later accounts that the first issue of the mag he’d ever seen had been not #3 but #6. In fact, the chances are that the very copy of #6 which he’d just sent me was the very same, much-read issue he had purchased nearly two decades earlier.]

He went on to state that he had duplicates of #2-8, 10, and 18-24, but that he had just offered them (through Julius Schwartz) to National, whose own files were incomplete. So far Schwartz had neither accepted nor declined his offer, and until he did so, Jerry felt he could hardly offer the comics to me. In the meantime, as he said, all was not lost, as he had sent me some old, worn triplicates of issues 4-6.

[2011: I’m a bit unclear on whether National/DC wound up with some of those other fifteen issues. Several of them were among the comics Jerry sold less than a year later via Alter Ego and the pages of his second fanzine creation, The Comicollector, the first so-called “adzine.” At any rate, I never got another shot at them… but, though I was naturally disappointed, I wasn’t about to complain!]

In the more personal part of the letter, he observed that we had other things in common besides our JSA/JLA interests. He, too, was a Missourian, having done most of his undergraduate work at the University of Kansas City. He had moved to Detroit just that preceding July to become Assistant Professor of Natural Science at Wayne State University. He hoped we could get together sometime, perhaps when he returned to Kansas City to visit relatives and friends.

imitating their style inside. Not that I knew that, either. The Grand Comics Database was still several decades away.]

His reply was that, besides liking my idea for a “news legion,” he had one of his own, which he had suggested to Gardner Fox already in a letter the previous summer: “I also think that DC should revive the Atom as a character like the old Dollman. Do you remember him?”

Did I? The idea immediately obsessed me that a new Atom should be the next hero to be revived after Hawkman joined the JLA. (Ha.) The next day (December 4), I fired off a letter myself to editor Schwartz, and asked Bails who he thought would be the best artist for such a comic. (His answer: Murphy Anderson, who, of course, did do the inking, until he took over Hawkman and left the Mighty Mite to Sid Greene.)

[2011: The exact genesis of the 1961 Atom—the first of the five “revivals” to date that didn’t strongly resemble the Golden Age hero who had inspired it—has been in dispute ever since. Julie believed he had the idea of a six-inch Atom on his own and didn’t recall Gardner Fox showing him Jerry’s letter dated August 29, 1960—though Julie definitely saw it, since he printed most of it— all except the sentence that mentioned The Atom and Doll Man— in a JLA letters page. Moreover, artist Gil Kane was absolutely positive that he came up with the idea of a miniaturized Atom independently sometime in late 1960, and that he even drew some sketches which he’d had colored and presented to Julie in order to sell the notion. Amazingly, a number of the letters exchanged on

[2011: Weird the way Alter Ego stalwarts seem to come in clusters. Two Missourians would soon get together to launch the fanzine. And, between 1999 and 2001, several guys living in the Carolinas would combine forces on A/E, Vol. 3: myself in rural South Carolina… John Morrow of Raleigh, North Carolina… and, with issue #9, interviewer (and soon associate editor) Jim Amash of Greensboro, NC. In none of the above instances, however, did geographical proximity have anything to do with the fact that we wound up working together!]

This was the beginning of a long and voluminous correspondence, which in less than five months added up to in excess of 100 pages.

[2011: Rather more than 50% of those pages, I should add, came from my own portable Smith-Corona electric typewriter. But Jerry wasn’t exactly a shrinking violet himself.]

Among other things, I mentioned an idea that I wanted to see reinstated in comics. Star-Spangled Comics had, for years, contained a teenage bunch of boys in association with a shield-toting crimebuster called the Guardian (invented by Simon and Kirby, who, I was to discover later, had also created the shield-toting Captain America years earlier). I wanted to see such an idea used in connection with National’s weakest super-hero, J’onn J’onzz, or perhaps with a revival of another old favorite, Robotman.

[2011: It may seem odd to today’s reader that I was unaware of Joe Simon & Jack Kirby’s connection with Captain America Comics—but after all, by the time I started reading that Timely/Marvel title circa 1946, they were five years gone from the feature—and from Timely. Even the “Newsboy Legion” stories I was recalling (apparently as the “News Legion”) had, by then, only covers that were drawn by the S&K team, with lesser hands

Paper Doll The artist of the splash page of “The Doll Man” for Feature Comics #116 (Nov. 1947) may (or may not) be Bill Ward, according to the Grand Comics Database; nobody’s even guessing at the name of the scripter.

[Doll Man TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1

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the subject in 1960 and early 1961 between Jerry, Gardner, and Julie still exist… and those notes, as well as a phone interview with Gil that I did in 1999, became the basis for a detailed study I wrote of this Rashomon-style situation for A/E, Vol. 3, #2, which I feel was pretty much the definitive treatment of the subject.]

Our first attempt at working together on any common goal came about as a result of a three-page letter I received from my college-professor correspondent on December 13. It began: “I am ‘Jerry’ to my friends, ‘Mister’ to those who don’t know me, and ‘Doctor’ to those who insist on formalities. I hope that you are one of the first group.” (So, exit the “Mr. Bails” bit.)

[2011: I’d been raised to address strangers and new acquaintances as “Mr.,” “Mrs.,” or “Miss” (no “Ms.” in those days) until and unless invited to refer to them differently. It took me decades—and a move to southern California, where no one I met at my Burbank apartment complex seemed to have a last name—to rid myself of that convention. I’m not sure it was an improvement.]

Jerry went on to state that he had sent Julius Schwartz a rather complete description of the Atom, who should have only limited power (as I concurred). His suggestion was the following: “Al Pratt, a young physics professor, discovers how to replace the normal atoms of his body with heavy metastable isotopes. For an hour at a time, he can compress the atoms of his body and acquire a six-inch stature with strength to smash ordinary matter with some exertion, and to leap several stories high. If trapped in a lead box at the end of his ‘hour,’ the tiny titan can’t absorb the cosmic rays he needs to resume normal size and he shrinks into a subatomic world, return from which is always replete with new danger.”

He also mentioned that he had included my idea for a group of boy companions, who might carry the main action, with the Atom helping them—perhaps even unknown to anyone but the boys. “What I really wish,” he went on, “is that I had the time to write an occasional Atom script for Showcase. Maybe you and I could collaborate in some way and submit a script and cover panel to Julie. How about it?”

[2011: Ah, the confidence of youth! Jerry may have been seven years older than I, and an assistant college prof, but he brashly seems to have assumed that the only obstacle between ourselves and the sale of a script to DC and Julie Schwartz was the time in which to write it. His enthusiasm carried me along with it.

Actually, I never got the impression that a career in comics was a particular ambition of Jerry’s—to him it would’ve been merely an avocation, a bit of moonlighting—nor, at that stage, had it ever occurred to me, either, that a young man half a continent away from New York City could ever get a job writing in that field. Still, if Jerry wanted to give scripting a try….]

This suggestion, plus the fact that Jerry offered to send me his duplicate All-Stars to read over the Christmas vacation, cheered me immensely, and I immediately plunged myself into the project.

In fact, even before receipt of this letter, I had already dashed off my own two-page synopsis of an Atom origin which in many details resembled his own concept. In my version, Al Pratt was a college student (as the old one had been), who was given his power to shrink by MOM (Molecular Order Modifier), the invention of a physics professor with whom he was friendly, and who was killed in the first story by spies. I also included a non-talking parrot named Copernicus (Copey for short) who would serve as short-range transportation for the Mighty Mite. I had even created a host of subsidiary characters: a roommate, a girl friend, and a grandmother, who would now seem like a wealthy version of Spider-Man’s Aunt May.

Good, Better, Bestest?

The splash page of the 5-page chapter of “Bestest League of America” written and drawn “twice-up” by Roy on poster paper at the turn of 196061 . It would be redrawn on typing paper in Feb.-March ’61, and that version, as traced and slightly edited by Jerry Bails, would appear in AlterEgo #1. The five “twice-up” pages were finally printed in Bill Schelly’s anthology of Fandom’s Finest Comics in 1997. [©2011 Roy Thomas.]

[2011: Putting together “The Alter Ego Story” several years after the fact, I realized that I probably shouldn’t have gotten carried away and sent my own ideas to Julie without clearing them first with Jerry—but my new Detroit friend wasn’t the only one who was sometimes transported by his enthusiasms. Interestingly, I don’t seem to have included my idea of a “kid group” in my version of the new Atom—but Jerry did include it in his.]

At the very end of this December 17 letter to Jerry, I added as an afterthought a paragraph that was to have far-reaching repercussions as far as my own leisure time for several years was concerned: “Oh, by the way, also during the January lay-off, I begin work on a project long dear to my heart—a Mad-type take-off on the JLA called the Bestest League of America, and starring Green Trashcan, Wondrous Woman, Cash, Aquariuman, and S’amm S’mithh, the Martian Manhandler, and featuring Superham, Wombatman, and Aukman. If you wish, I’ll let you see it when I finish it in February or March.”

I had, you see, long before done a similar parody of the JSA, as lorded over by Mean Lantern, with members Hogman, Dr. Mid-Day, Trash, Blunder Woman, and Mildrat (for Wildcat, since I didn’t like Black Canary).

[2011: As will be noticed above, super-hero comics were far from the only things I loved about the medium. Though I never liked

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The Origins Of Jerry Bails’ Epoch-Making 1961 Comic Book Fanzine

crime or horror comics, in the early 1950s I had become a devotee of EC’s color Mad comic; it and Dell’s Pogo Possum were easily my favorite comics in the half-decade after the demise of All-Star. I had written and drawn the JSA parody mentioned above on typing paper sometime in the mid-1950s. But I suspect it was my new correspondence with Jerry, as much as the debut of the Justice League itself, that had led me to decide to do a JLA spoof.

So that was that. I had already sent my own few suggestions to Julius Schwartz and Gardner Fox, including a sketch of the Atom riding Copernicus which was mildly praised and then ignored. Jerry (with perhaps a little extra help from me) had very likely influenced National to “revive” the Atom—a feat for which he was never given any recognition—and had given them a little scientific information to make the thing more palatable to today’s accuracy-hungry comicmongers.

[Of course, my time would arguably have been better spent on college work, since I was due to graduate the following summer. Actually, with my renewed interest in comics due to the revivals, my grades had already begun to slip slightly, on their way from the solid “A” average I’d held for the first two years, including summer sessions, down toward more of an “A-” level and eventual graduation magna cum laude instead of summa cum laude, as should have been the case.

Wertham was right! Comics were bad for me… at least, if I ignore the fact that I’d go on to make a singularly good living off them for several decades, a career that hasn’t entirely ended even after more than 45 years. But I digress… although, to some extent, that’s the point of all these italicized paragraphs.]

[2011: I don’t recall much about the Atom/Copernicus sketch I drew, except that I’m pretty sure I colored it—though I’m not sure with what.

I’m certain that I costumed the Atom in an outfit that was virtually identical to his 1948-51 garb, which seemed far more likely to appeal to Julie than his earlier body-builder, full-face-mask gear.]

Dim Bulbs The first of several full stories’ worth of original artwork that was sent to Roy by editor Julius Schwartz was for this tale from The Flash #117 (Dec. 1960)—given because Roy had suggested the return of The Three Dimwits from the 1940s “Flash” series. Nowadays, if he wants to see this artwork, he has to pull off the shelf his copy of The Flash Archives, Vol. 3 (2002). The Dimwits had been DC’s answer to The Three Stooges of movie-short fame. In some ways, this is virtually the first “Earth-Two” story—except Gardner Fox was writing, and penciler Carmine Infantino even more clearly drawing, an “EarthOne” version of the characters. Inks by Joe Giella. [©2011 DC Comics.]

Jerry’s next two letters (each, like most of mine, several pages long) outlined in more detail his ideas for the Atom. Things were about at this pass when I received, on January 10, 1961, a discouragingly encouraging note from Jerry:

“I have just received a letter from Gardner. DC will revive the Atom.

They have already considered several ideas and art samples. The Atom will definitely have the ability to shrink. They presently intend to make him a college student, but this is not definite yet. Gar will write the stories.

“In view of this news, I suggest we abandon our plan for the Atom. I am sending Gar a list of our final suggestions. I recommend to you that you get to work immediately on your Dr. Fate script.”

[2011: More about the “Dr. Fate” thing a few paragraphs below; I’d recently mentioned to Jerry that I had some ideas for revamping that Golden Age hero. Jerry, as you see, was not one to brood about whether DC might have gotten the idea for a Doll Man-size Atom from him. For, he—and I, in his wake—had offered up our ideas gratis to Julie and Gardner; our main hope was simply that they’d act on them. Sure, it was a disappointment to realize that now Jerry and I wouldn’t get a chance to work on that “spec script” for the concept, but mostly I recall feeling happy that there’d soon be a new Atom—and that this time he would, indeed, be a “tiny titan.” The Atom and Doll Man had been two of my favorite comics heroes when I was a kid, probably because I was small for my age.]

However, Jerry and I were not the type to sit around stewing in our own Kryptonite juice. His letter quoted above suggested that I commence work on a revival plan for Dr. Fate, which I immediately did. And, for his part, Jerry began to talk of a “JLA newsletter” that he wanted to publish and distribute to such JLA fans as he could contact, both through the letter pages of the comic itself and in other ways.

[2011: Julie’s comics had begun to carry full addresses of those who wrote in, so Jerry could pick them up from there; a short time before, that would not have been possible. This also establishes for certain that, by mid-January of ’61, weeks before he heard of science-fiction fanzines or saw a copy of Xero, he had already hatched his notion of a “JLA newsletter,” which would soon metamorphose into Alter-Ego. Of course, at the time I was more interested in drawing my “Bestest League” parody, which I assumed would never been seen by more than a few friends (including Jerry) and family, than I was in any newsletter. Except as a potential reader, what could such a publication possibly have to do with me?]

The road to Alter Ego took a giant step forward when, on January 26, I received a letter from Jerry stating that he had just received an invitation to visit and lecture at Adelphi College on Long Island the following month. He and his wife Sondra were planning to make the visit the occasion of a long-awaited holiday, and of course he intended to “drop in” at the DC offices.

[2011: Such, clearly, was the easy rapport that Jerry had established with both Julie Schwartz and Gardner Fox that he took it more or less for granted that he could “drop in” on them at DC, even if he had no idea how much time they might be able to spare for him.]

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1

He added: “I am going to suggest my plan for a JLA newsletter and see if I can get their support for it. I also hope to see the drawings of the Atom and other projects in the works. If you have any ideas for the newsletter, let me know by return mail.”

My one immediate suggestion, a Junior Justice League of America organization as in the days of old, in which coded messages told of future JSA tales, turned out to be one which Jerry had already been pondering, so it was incorporated at once.

Also in that letter I included a résumé of the first chapter of the Bestest League story I was doing (in twice-up size) on poster paper. I also included Green Trashcan’s oath: “In little shack or circus tent, No evil shall escape this gent.

Let those who are of evil bent Beware my power —Green Trashcan’s scent.”

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As I originally planned him, he was scientist Jim Corrigan, who discovered that an invention of his had accidentally picked up dimensionhopping characteristics, so that any object he placed before it vanished and shortly returned in triplicate—the original object and two other, weirder forms.

Naturally, it wasn’t long before Corrigan himself became sliced into two other beings, the Spectre and the Shade, embodiments respectively of the good and the evil that are in man.

[2011: Once again, although I saw the new Spectre as nearly identical visually to the Bernard Baily original—well, I gave him a belt—I veered toward science-fiction, not mysticism. And my “Dr. Jekyll” would subdivide not merely into a “Mr. Hyde,” but into a super-heroic persona, as well. I’ve no idea what inspired that notion, but it has an appeal for me, even now. I suspect the drawing I mention above is the one that Jerry would eventually trace and even color for an interior illo in Alter-Ego #1.]

Jerry responded enthusiastically: “I certainly like your ideas for the Spectre. May I suggest the name ‘Count Dis’ for his evil counterpart. (I chose ‘Dis’ rather than the Greek, ‘Pluto,’ because the latter has so many other connotations for comic readers.)”

[2011: With the usual 20-20 hindsight, I can now see the creative collision course on which Jerry and I were already set—his JLA newsletter and my JLA parody—although at the time there was no discussion about the possibility of my story appearing in his projected publication. After all, I was drawing it at a huge size, closer to the scale of the original comic art that Julie had sent me (of the entire Three Dimwits-starring story “The Madcap Inventers of Central City!” from The Flash #117, Dec. 1960), and not on paper that could be traced off onto a mimeograph sheet or ditto master. Still, I was vicariously thrilled at the thought of Jerry’s swiftly upcoming trip, and at his possible meeting with two of our idols.]

He also suggested that I use Freudian terms, such as the super-ego and the id, rather than the simpler “good” and “evil,” and that I make Corrigan a psychiatrist who traveled to India to learn the secret of the mystics.

With some revision—Corrigan became a doctor who, in India to see his dying uncle, gained possession of a mysterious gem that caused his personality division—the idea had taken form almost overnight.

The next day—Jerry’s and my letters often crossed in the mails—I suggested something else that was to mushroom into something more personal than I had intended.

Jerry and I had been discussing an idea of mine for a revival of Dr. Fate, one of the mightiest of JSA heroes. In my version he was an archeologist who discovered and donned a strange blue-and-gold costume he found in Egypt, only to find that touching the belt in a certain place tossed him back into time. There, he regained the three missing parts of the costume—teleportational cloak, lingua-translating amulet, and telekinetic helmet—to become Doctor Fate, a sort of time-traveling Adam Strange.

[2011: In retrospect, although he never mentioned it, I wonder if Jerry had it in mind that, if things went further, he and I might’ve wound up collaborating on a script for this revived Spectre as we’d intended to do re the Atom. If so, I’d have been up for it… but at this point Jerry was content to make a few suggestions and have me run with the ball. And I was happy to act on his suggestions, realizing that they were good ones.]

After commenting favorably on my Bestest League ideas, he went on to say, “My thoughts for a newsletter are still pretty muddy. I can have the thing hectographed for nothing, but I would prefer to at least have it mimeographed, but that costs money. So does postage, if the number of copies is very great. I don’t want to charge for it, because that involves all sorts of complications and DC might not give their approval, and their

[2011: Since all the Schwartz revivals had veered away from magic toward science (e.g., both Green Lantern and Hawkman), I never gave any thought to simply suggesting a revival of Dr. Fate as he had been in the 1940s. At the same time, it’s clear to me that, contrary to all of Julie’s revivals to date, I wanted Fate’s garb to be identical to what he’d worn then. I did love that full-face helmet, which I’d first seen in the three comics Jerry had sent me only weeks before, and that’s the one I had in mind for him. Oh, and despite the Egyptian resonance of my story, this was a good year or so before I was offered a chance to attend graduate school, studying Egyptology, at the University of Chicago’s famous Oriental Institute.]

However, when Rip Hunter arrived on the scene in his own colorless way, I turned my thoughts to other things. And then, suddenly, one day in late January not long before Jerry’s upcoming journey, I suddenly dashed off on the typewriter—and later drew an illo for—a revival of another super-powerful JSAer of old, The Spectre.

Broadway Jerry’s Way Even when, in February 1961, he was envying Jerry Bails’ visiting the DC offices, Roy was equally envious of the Bailses’ getting to see Richard Burton, Julie Andrews, and Robert Goulet in Lerner & Lowe’s Camelot and the hilarious improv show An Evening with Mike Nichols and Elaine May—the sources of two of his all-time favorite Broadway show albums. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

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approval is essential if I am to get the kind of advance info I need for a good start.

“Right now I think I’ll send The JLA Subscriber (as I might call it) only to adult readers who write in to one of Julie’s magazines. This audience would supply many new ideas and help to boost the JLA with the younger set. They would also be interested in gossip about the old JSA stories and other DC comics, and might want to trade old mags, just as we have.

“The number of JLA fans over 18 shouldn’t be so great that I couldn’t afford the postage myself, and perhaps different issues of the newsletter could originate from different fans. In other words, any one at any time might get a newsletter off to other fans. However, only subscribers to the JLA would receive the code chart when they send me the address label from the brown mailing wrapper. What do you think? I think that each editor might include an editorial. I have one I want to write on the good and bad effects of the Comics Code. And I’m sure you could write many interesting features.”

[2011: Thus, from the beginning, Jerry was clearly thinking of an entire fandom, with publications put out by various aficionados, not simply himself. Neither he nor I had yet ever heard the word “fanzine”; even so, he was unconsciously moving in that direction.

Of course, the “newsletter” he intended was an intentionally less sophisticated publication than the Comic Art fanzine which, unknown to us, newlyweds Don and Maggie Thompson were prepping over in Ohio… nor, of course, were we yet aware that a new science-fiction fanzine called Xero, with its series of nostalgic articles on 1940s comic books, had been introduced at the World Science Fiction Convention over the preceding Labor Day weekend, with another issue or two having followed since. Jerry and I on the one hand, and the Thompsons on the other, were on basically parallel paths, with neither group aware of the other. But the Thompsons, at least, had learned of Xero shortly after the sf WorldCon, and had since become personally acquainted with that zine’s publishers/editors, Richard and Pat Lupoff.]

This, of course, was in the days before Jerry or I—or anybody, I suppose—realized just how large a potential readership an amateur publication on comic book heroes really had. It was in the days when both Jerry and I were more enthusiastic about the Justice League than we have had occasion to become since—when we still had dreams of a monthly JLA comic, not to mention a giant 25¢ annual following the style of the old All-Stars. It was also, need I mention, in the days before Stan Lee had semi-revolutionized the field with his own uninhibited super-do-gooders.

[2011: As can be seen, disenchantment with certain aspects of the JLA title over the next few years—particularly the artwork by Mike Sekowsky—was growing in Jerry and me as it was in many other early fans… though neither of us ever joined the “antiSekowsky” hew and cry.

[And, lest any reader think I was writing “The Alter Ego Story” to curry favor with my Marvel boss and mentor Stan Lee, it may be worth reminding one and all that this article was written in early ’65, before I’d received a chance either to be the assistant editor of the “Superman” books or to write a script for Charlton—and even longer before I would meet and immediately go to work for Stan.

Rather, the final sentence in the preceding paragraph underscores why it is that, after I arrived in New York with a job already arranged at DC, I soon dropped a line to Stan saying I’d love to meet him for a drink. By early 1965, Stan and I had exchanged only a couple of letters—with excerpts from one of mine having been printed in Fantastic Four #5 (July 1962), and with Stan sending me a free copy of Amazing Spider-Man #4 (Sept. ’63) after I wrote that I’d somehow missed it on the newsstands and was wondering if I could purchase a copy directly from the company that had only recently taken to calling itself “Marvel.”]

After this, Jerry and I were not in close contact for about two weeks, during which he made his New York trip. Besides seeing Camelot, the Nichols-and-May show, and sundry other big-city benefits, he did of course manage to give his lectures and visit the National offices, and he returned home full of new fire.

“First of all, let me say that my five-hour visit to the DC offices, my luncheon with Julie and Gar, my private conversations with writers and artists, and my perusal of AA [AllAmerican] classics, gives more than I could relate in a half dozen king-sized letters; and besides, I don’t want to steal all my own thunder, because I know now (for sure) that I want to bring out a ‘fanzine’ devoted to the Great Revival of the costumed heroes.

“I even have what I consider to be a brilliant title and format. It will be called Alter-ego and each contributor will sign his article with the name of the hero he wishes to see revived, or created. It seems natural for me to choose the Atom to start, while you, who (I hope) will serve as co-editor, could use either your Dr. Fate or Spectre or both.

Bread And Butter Jerry Bails’ thank-you note written jointly to Julius Schwartz and Gardner Fox on Feb. 12, 1961, almost immediately after his visit to the DC offices. Jerry’s note was actually written on three small pieces of paper; they have been combined here. [From the University of Oregon Library Dept. of Special Collections.]

“I have enough background info, promise of advance previews, support in Julie’s letter columns, and hope for fresh ideas from a guy named Thomas to make this fanzine go, go, go, as Snapper might say.” (Even then, you see, Jerry knew what every fanzine contributor needs to keep him going: flattery.)

[2011: So there you have it: Jerry Bails’ likely first mention (except to Schwartz and Fox;

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Madam, I’m Atom!

see preceding page) of several key items, all As was said when the above drawing was first printed in in three paragraphs: (1) his first use of the A/E, Vol. 3, #2: “Gil Kane’s 1960 conceptual Atom word “fanzine,” which he’d learned from drawings are long since scattered to the winds, but he Julie, who had showed him several sciencegraciously drew this approximation of the bestfiction fanzines—including Dick & Pat remembered of them especially for Alter Ego. Thanks, old Lupoffs’ Xero #1-3, which the editor loaned buddy!” Little did Roy realize, in 1999, that within the to Jerry, presumably when they met in year Gil would be gone… and Roy still misses him. [The Atom TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Manhattan; (2) Jerry’s first use (again, except to those two DC pros) of the new name for his projected publication, Alter-ego, soon to be altered by capitalalthough I had ization of the second “e”; and (3) his initial “mission statement” sent him at for the zine, which was to further what he called “the Great least one Revival of the costumed heroes.” Of the three possibilities of time— sketch of them; the past, present, and future—he had declared his interest in all three, oversize Chapter since the newsletter would be concerned with the current heroes, One first (and last) possible revivals in the future, and, as he related above, “gossip saw publication in about the old JSA stories and other DC comics.” From this Bill Schelly’s 1997 moment, Jerry’s planned publication would be far more than a Hamster Press tome mere “newsletter.”

Fandom’s Finest Comics. Jerry would [The “background info, promise of advance reviews, support in trace my typing-paper Julie’s letters columns,” and even some ideas from “a guy named version of the first 5Thomas” were all to come to pass, as well. There was just one page chapter of “Bestest mercifully false start mentioned above—the notion that we’d sign League” and the “cover our articles with the names of super-heroes. He must have quickly art” onto what Bill termed a realized that this approach had more pitfalls than possibilities, for “ditto master unit,” which meant I’ve no memory of his ever bringing it up again. that the main line art would be in a sort of dull “black” rather than the purple in which the rest of the issue [Alas, however, I don’t believe Jerry ever sent me one thing I lusted was published… but it also meant he was able to add other colors: after—a fuller written account of those five hours at DC, blue, green, yellow, orange, and red; see this issue’s title page. It including his lunch with Schwartz and Fox. It was clear from later would also mean, unfortunately, that some later copies of Alterstatements that he met writer Bill Finger during this time, and no Ego #1 would be mailed out minus the interior BLA pages, for you doubt a number of other DC personnel, as well.] could print only about 100 copies from a color master, while you could get maybe 150 copies from the standard purple master— He also included inside information on the forthcoming Atom, who which is why purple, rather than black, was the color in which had been temporarily frozen by DC, which feared, he said, “flooding the material was generally printed on a spirit duplicator. market with costumed heroes.” A worry, of course, which has since been shown by Stan Lee and his cohorts to be unjustified. Jerry had seen Gil Kane’s preliminary sketch of the Atom, which pictured him astride a dog, but he didn’t know if the canine was to be a permanent fixture in the strip or not and said that the topic never came up in the conversation.

[2011: That Atom drawing—one of several which Gil told me about later for A/E V3#2 that he’d drawn in late 1960—was, like its fellows, eventually misplaced. However, in that same 1999 issue of A/E, Mike W. Barr recalled running across a related Atom sketch by Gil at the DC offices years later when he was a lowly intern, and having the pleasure of returning it to the artist.]

He concluded: “Now, get to work and supply me with material for the first issue of Alter-ego. I would like to run about a dozen pages, including your Bestest League of America in serial form. Hold it to four 8x11 pages per chapter if you can. Send me your shaded pencil drawings and I’ll do my best to reproduce them in Ben Day tones. I suggest you use typewriter characters in balloons and legends.”

Most of which I immediately did—as a matter of fact, I never did do anything more than the first chapter of the BLA on poster paper at double size after that. I also sent him an intended “cover” that would have gone inside the fanzine and which he decided to use as the cover of Alter-Ego #1. (Though still hyphenating the word, we now capitalized both halves, which is something of an improvement, anyway.)

[2011: To the best of my knowledge, this is the first inkling I had that Jerry wanted my “Bestest League” parody to appear in his newsletter/fanzine. I’ve no recollection whether he had seen the five oversize pages of it that I’d written and drawn by this point,

[Jerry also “edited” my cover art in the process, adding the parody of the Comics Code seal and tracing my Wondrous Woman figure upside down. I should’ve thought of that! However, I elected to letter the balloons and captions by hand, rather than type them; Jerry apparently had no real quarrel with that. I believe I indicated the “Bestest League” logo on the cover drawing, but Jerry definitely added the Alter-Ego logo he’d designed, which, however simple, set the style for the two versions that have followed it—the one by Ronn Foss (used on Vol. 1, #5-9) and the one adapted from Ronn’s in 1969 by (I’m fairly certain) professional Marvel letterer Sam Rosen and utilized ever since. The logo of the 1986 Alter Ego comic book from First Comics was also a variation of Jerry’s original.]

Jerry responded by saying he had written Bill Finger, the original author of Green Lantern and other heroes, for an autobiographical sketch and that he himself was working on a history of the JSA for the first issue of AE, “describing a few of the better stories in detail.”

[2011: Neither of these pieces was destined to materialize. See below.]

A few days later, while I was hard at work redrawing the Bestest League on typing paper as per Jerry’s instructions, I received another message from him, this one suggesting that I write up in short story form my revival version of either Dr. Fate or the Spectre, to be published in AE for reader reaction. For various reasons, I decided the Spectre was the more interesting of the two, and accordingly started work on an as-yetunnamed story about the most powerful comic hero of all time.

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[2011: This, too, Jerry would edit slightly—and he would trace my accompanying drawing of Jim Corrigan splitting into The Spectre and Count Dis so it could be printed in black, purple, and green.]

Ego as a way to defray his costs, and to sell his excess comics. Even at the low prices at which he would offer them, that ended my hopes of acquiring his other spare copies of All-Star.]

By early March Jerry had things pretty well whipped into shape. For some weeks he had been sending out feelers to comic readers “by the dozens” across the country, and on March 3 he reported that he was getting a couple of responses a day. These people, he said, would receive our first issue free of charge; from then on, copies would sell for the staggering sum of 20¢ (in coin or stamps) unless the person had an article, letter, or ad in it. He also sent a list of the projected contents of AE #1: “Cover: BLA splash (possibly in color); ‘The Mystery of the Vanishing Detectives,’ Part 1 of a JSA history, with my art; ‘A Code That Needs Breaking’—an editorial on the Comics Code; ‘The Reincarnation of the Spectre’ (suggested title for your 2-pager); ‘A Finger in Every Plot,’ the Finger autobiography (No word yet!); ‘Swaps and Sales’ 50¢ per quarterpage. (What do you think of this rate?)”

A few days later I sent Jerry the tentative splash panel of the BLA story.

Jerry, however, thought that the drawings of the six members inside their little circles were too small, and proceeded to substitute for these the heads of a rapid sketch I had sent him earlier. This didn’t work out too badly, except that I had not yet succeeded (if I ever did) in giving Wondrous Woman the Brigitte Bardot-type appearance I wanted. In AE #1 she came out looking like a young Marjorie Main.

There were also going to be a very limited want-ad section; coming events at DC; a letters section; a cryptogram; and “last but not least,” he claimed, the Bestest League of America. He planned on a “well-balanced issue, totaling about 20 pages.”

[2011: By this time, Jerry was clearly getting a good grip on the first issue’s contents, although there were still several major changes to come. I don’t recall if, by now, Jerry had in hand my “Spectre” prose story (which would actually run to more than two pages when printed with my/our illustration), but he even suggested a title, which I accepted. As is obvious, although Jerry generously listed me as “co-editor” in the zine—a title I didn’t know about till I saw a printed copy—it was clearly he who was the editor, and I the editee. I was never sent any work of his to edit or proofread—not that I was eager to do so. Clearly, too, by now Jerry had already realized the advertising-space potential of Alter-

[2011: Okay, so maybe I was protesting a bit too much here. My art may not have been great shakes, but Wondrous Woman wasn’t drawn that badly. Was she??]

Jerry also made a number of suggestions on the tentative cover I had sent. He wanted all the figures a little larger, and wanted things a bit more confused in general. I concurred with some, though not all, of his suggestions and went to work in earnest.

When he received the first chapter a week later, his reply was very enthusiastic and he immediately prepared the five-color master for the cover. He changed it somewhat, so that Wondrous Woman came out upside down and a “Comics Code” seal replaced the caption I had done.

At the same time he changed some of the past perfect tenses in my Spectre story to simple past tenses and announced that it was ready to be included.

[2011: I’ve no memory any longer of specific changes that were requested, or of ones that Jerry made, besides those previously mentioned. But I recall that I mentally applauded what he did with the Comics Code seal and Wondrous Woman!]

NOW ON SALE! The ALTER EGO COMIC BOOK 25th Anniversary Edition #1-4 being released at regular intervals— followed by a BRAND NEW #5!

Order it online, only at www.heroicpub.com/alterego

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1

“The Big Red Cheese”

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Julie, I believe—they got lost in the mails. I always feared that I hadn’t put enough postage on them, even though it seems likely I’d have taken them to a post office and had them weighed, not simply slapped stamps on them. Still, as I would write in A/E, Vol. 3, #18, Xero and I seem always to have been destined for something of a star-crossed relationship.]

Interior cover by “T. Hief” for Dick Lupoff’s first installment of the series soon to be called simply “All in Color for a Dime,” from Xero #1 (1960). Xero was covered in detail in A/E #18. [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

On March 28 Jerry announced that, with Sondra’s help, the final ditto masters had been prepared on the 21-page Alter-Ego #1.

The cover, the Spectre-Count Dis drawing, and one he had done for an article on the Wizard were to be in color, while the rest of the fanzine would be in black and white. He wrote:

There still had been no word from Bill Finger, despite many letters sent by Jerry. He hoped to add the autobiography (or whatever) to AE #1 as a bonus, if it came in time, but it never did. Jerry also dropped his editorial on the Comics Code Authority. The last thing I saw before I received the finished fanzine was the secret code chart.

[2011: Several years later, Jerry admitted to others and to me that Sondra didn’t actually do any typing on Alter-Ego. That bit of credit was simply an attempt on his part to try to get her involved. His first marriage was far more difficult by this stage than I could know.]

“As you will see, I have written features on different topics than I originally intended. This I did for several reasons. One, because my story of the JSA was anticipated by another fanzine, Xero, devoted to science fiction and the comics.”

[2011: Given the lesser space available in Alter-Ego #1, Jerry would hardly have been able to compete for depth with Jim Harmon’s “A Bunch of Swell Guys” in Xero #3, which had come out in early 1961.]

The rumor persists, I think—I even believe it myself, sometimes—that Alter-Ego was inspired by Dick Lupoff ’s excellent SF fanzine Xero.

However, the facts show otherwise. Jerry had already worked out tentative contents of the first issue when he discovered the existence of the other zine, with its fine series on the comics entitled “And All in Color for a Dime.” The three parts published so far had dealt with Captain Marvel, National Comics in general, and the Justice Society in particular. I tried to get the back issues, but was only able to start receiving the zine with issue #4, which contained the really outstanding article on the Timely (now Marvel) heroes by Don Thompson.

[2011: Nothing from Bill Finger ever appeared in Jerry’s Alter-Ego… not that I suspect the writer would’ve laid official claim at that time to being the co-creator of “Batman,” as he is now considered by nearly everyone who knows anything about the situation. Jerry didn’t publish anything negative about the Comics Code because he feared a backlash from DC, if not from Julie Schwartz specifically. Jerry’s “secret code chart” was first published in Bill Schelly’s and my 1997 collection.]

POSTSCRIPT: As Bill Schelly and I wrote in the 1997 Alter Ego [Vol. 1] trade paperback, “The Alter Ego Story” ended soon after the last non-italicized paragraph above, “upon mentioning the final item to be added to AE #1 (“Merciful Minerva,” an article on Wonder Woman by Jerry), and appending some initial comments about the genesis of features that appeared in #2. Though left incomplete in terms of Roy’s original intent, the piece succeeds in providing a vivid impression of those exciting months just before the fanzine was leashed on an unsuspecting world.”

[2011: As I look back over things now, I suspect Xero was a bigger influence on the first issue of Alter-Ego than I did in 1965. Since Julie had almost certainly shown Xero #1 & 2, and possibly #3, to Jerry in Feb. ’61, those issues surely played a major factor in moving Jerry to change his “newsletter” into a comic book “fanzine.” It was only after he returned from New York, for instance, that Jerry decided that my “Bestest League” and “Spectre” features would fit in his new publication.]

And, fifty years later, with a decades-long interruption along the way, Alter Ego is still recounting and examining the history of comic books, though it has long since willingly dropped its concern, for the most part, with comics of the present or future. The past is enough to keep us all busy for a lifetime.

One of my favorite quotations comes from my fellow Missourian, President Harry S Truman: “The only thing new under the sun is the history you don’t know yet.”

We’ll keep working at it, Harry!

Below and on the next ten pages are printed the entire 1961 first issue of Jerry’s Alter-Ego, courtesy of Doc Boucher. (For the cover of A/E V1#1 in color, see title page.)

Jerry was able to obtain, from SF fan Julius Schwartz, the first three issues of Xero on loan so that I could read them, but, through an error in judgment on my part which I still regret, they were later lost in the mails.

Now, turn the page—then turn this book/magazine (or yoursel) sideways and have a retro blast…!

[2011: I’m a bit vague as to what happened, but apparently when I mailed them back—to Cover of A/E [Vol. 1] #1.

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78 The Origins Of Jerry Bails’ Epoch-Making 1961 Comic Book Fanzine

2011 NOTE: Perhaps because the copy of A/E V1#1 reproduced in this section was scanned by Doc Boucher from an early reprinting, Count Dis is pictured above wearing a mask.

This is a misinterpretation of the drawing as it appeared in March 1961. (The Spectre’s belt got lost, as well.) At left is a pen-&-ink drawing of Dis done around that time by Ye Editor.

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82 The Origins Of Jerry Bails’ Epoch-Making 1961 Comic Book Fanzine

2011 NOTE: This page, and to some extent “p. 4” of the “Bestest League” chapter, on the following page, lack the solid blacks seen on the other pages of the story. The actual darkness of the printing of these black-ditto’d pages from Alter-Ego [Vol. 1] #1 was probably somewhere in between the two shades.

The Annotated Alter-Ego #1

And there you have it: the entire first issue of the 1961 A/E—minus only the final, 22nd page, which consisted merely of the mailing and return addresses.

Whether anybody asks us to or not, we’ll probably reprint the other two “Bestest League” chapters (from #2-3) in some near-future issue. And now, get off your elbow and go back to reading this book/magazine like a normal person!

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The Missourian Chronicles Brief Tributes to Alter Ego And—Ulp!—Its Ebullient Editor Compiled & Introduced by Jerry K. Boyd

Introduction

H

ow often does a fanzine make it to its 100th issue? Not often.

Thus, congratulations are in order to Roy Thomas (who’s a native of Missouri, hence my splicing together above of his origins with Robert E. Howard’s Nemedian source for tales of his favorite Cimmerian) for gathering all that much-needed history for us and for readers and historians yet to come.

And, since I’m talking history and special occasions, Alter Ego: Centennial presented a unique opportunity for me to ask a number of TwoMorrows contributors, prominent fans, and comics industry professionals to wax philosophical about A/E’s importance… or to write about their favorite Thomas-written stories or series over the years… or just to relate experiences they had working with “Rascally Roy.” It became a “surprise party” of sorts, and Roy was receptive to the idea when I first told him about this project—in the fall of ’09, when it was already twothirds completed!

Humbly, after he read my initial draft, Roy requested that I add a few more folks who could talk (in his words) “more about Alter Ego and less about me,” and I complied.

Hitting A Triple (Clockwise from directly above:) A/E founder Jerry G. Bails’ cover for A/E [Vol. 1] #3, a montage of work by various Golden Age “Green Lantern” artists, which has faded a bit since it rolled off his spirit duplicator (in color) in 1961— Roy Thomas with Jerry Bails, at their last meeting (in Detroit, 2002) before Jerry’s Nov. 26, 2006 passing; photo by Dann Thomas— And the flyer that was handed out at 1999 comics conventions to advertise A/E, Vol. 3, #1.

A personal note from Roy re “The Missourian Chronicles”: “I feel I should state up front that I’d hoped this piece would deal only with Alter Ego, not with my comics career. Still, Jerry K. Boyd had already basically put it together by the time I first saw it, so there was little I could do but accept his heartfelt fait accompli and say… thanks, Jerry.” Photo by Dann Thomas. [Green Lanterns, Streak, Solomon Grundy, Harlequin, Vandal Savage, Gambler, Flashes, Atom, Jade, Fury, Batman, & Hawkman TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Spider-Man, Thing, & Silver Surfer TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2011 Jerry Ordway.]

So let’s take a few pages to celebrate the 100th issue of A/E, Vol. 3—plus the 50th anniversary of Jerry Bails and Roy’s AlterEgo [Vol. 1] #1 in March 1961—as well as writer/editor Roy! Many responses were sent via e-mail; others were made via phone calls, and I’d like to thank several of the participants for including unpublished or rarely seen art to go along with their commentaries….

RICHARD LUPOFF writer; editor of 1960s fanzine Xero Alter Ego #100?! That’s hard to believe. Fifty years?! You’ve gotta be kidding! It was only a couple of weeks ago, wasn’t it? Pat and I had barely got our fanzine Xero off the ground, Don and Maggie Thompson were busy starting up Comic Art, and Roy Thomas and Jerry Bails were putting together the inaugural issue of Alter Ego.

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From Xero To 50 Dick & Pat Lupoff (she’s on right, standing), co-publishers/editors of Xero, took time in 1966 to help friends Maggie Thompson (seen at left) and her husband Don—who probably took the snapshot—assemble copies of their equally legendary mimeographed fanzine Comic Art. Photo supplied by Maggie.

Fifty years? One hundred issues? Alter Ego is just getting started. I expect it to last another fifty years and another hundred issues at least— with Roy Thomas still at the helm!

RICH BUCKLER – artist/creator

Historians can argue to their hearts’ content over who was the initiator of comics fandom. And in fact there had been articles about the comics— Buck Rogers, Brick Bradford, Flash Gordon, Superman, Alley Oop—in the fan press ever since the 1930s. And there was the EC Fan-Addicts Club in the ’50s. Hey, I was a faithful member.

But this was a new generation, in truth a new fandom. Xero was actually first off the press (or more accurately, out of the mimeo tray), but Xero was always a hybrid comics/science fiction fanzine. Comic Art took in the whole field of cartooning, emphatically including newspaper strips.

And Alter Ego was the first to cast its lot with super-hero comic books.

Or at least, that’s the way I recall it.

What can I say about Roy Thomas? Let’s see… I’ve known Roy and his work since the early fanzine days of the ’60s. I have gone on record many times stating that he is my favorite comic book writer. Well, he was probably my favorite editor at Marvel Comics, too. If not for Roy, no Rich Buckler on Fantastic Four or the Jungle Action “Black Panther” series— and no Deathlok.

It was remarkably easy and rewarding to work with him a decade or so ago when he and I collaborated on two independent comics, The Forever Warriors and The Invincibles. Unfortunate that only one issue of each saw print. Maybe an opportunity will open up again for Roy and me to launch “Death Machine,” a character we co-created around that same time.

Late 1960—early ’61. Why then? Why hadn’t any of those earlier fumblings toward a real comics fandom ever taken root and flourished?

And why did comics fandom soar once those three fanzines made their appearance? I’ll leave it to some social science major looking for a thesis topic to figure that one out. To borrow a phrase I’ve come across in another context, maybe it was just “comic book time.”

Who would have imagined a comics fan world with hundreds of thousands of members, collectibles selling for a million dollars or more (“…and all in color for a dime”), super-hero movies among the biggest blockbusters coming out of Hollywood—a graphic novel winning the Pulitzer Prize—reprints of Golden Age comics lovingly produced on fine paper and bound in expensive cloth, and ancient Sunday pages in full size and color, comic book stores prospering in every city worthy of the name?

We pioneers—I guess you’d have to call us that—didn’t set out to change the world. At least, Pat and I didn’t. We were just a couple of youngsters having fun. But it seems as if we did exactly that—at least, to a sizable piece of the world.

Of course we’ve moved in different directions since 1960.

Don Thompson and Jerry Bails, sadly, are both deceased. Maggie Thompson is a leading light in professional journalism, still covering the field of comics and cartoons. Pat Lupoff is a longtime professional bookseller, and Dick Lupoff has worked in various areas of cultural history when not writing novels and short stories of his own. But Roy Thomas is still at it, tending the home fires, defending the faith.

That’s Rich!

Rich Buckler was seen on p. 21, so at left is a drawing of the super-hero Aegis, from The Invincibles one-shot comic he and Roy T. did a few years ago. The lads are determined it won’t be their last co-venture; in fact, they’re currently developing (believe it or not) a brand new World War II super-hero group, echoing the early days of All-Star Squadron. All they need is a publisher! [Aegis TM & ©2011 Rich Buckler & Roy Thomas.]

On view above is Rich’s original sketch for the cover of A/E, Vol. 3, #7 (2000). We figured you might enjoy seeing a few behind-the-scenes moments from the past 100 issues of this incarnation of A/E, spread throughout this article and issue. [JSA & JLA TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

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In terms of intellectual abilities, I would say that Roy is brilliant (he wouldn’t say that, though). I would go even further, to say that he has been a continually important positive influence throughout my career. He was generous in contributing the introduction to my book How to Draw Dynamic Comic Books. Believe it or not, it was actually more important to me than getting Stan Lee’s foreword (!). Creatively speaking, Roy could probably write a book on “How to Be a Dynamic Force in Comic Books!”

I regard my collaboration with him on All-Star Squadron and The Avengers as career high points. To say I hold him in high regard, both personally and professionally, is probably an understatement!

MARIE SEVERIN – artist/creator Working with Roy was delightful because he knew all the characters, and Roy was always on target—he knew the history and development of those [Marvel] characters.

He was a professional fan… and that really helped him. Stan and Roy always let me do my own thing, and they let the creative juices flow. Roy was always professional, and it was wonderful doing comics with him.

LEE HESTER – TwoMorrows contributor I’m a big moviegoer and it’s always a pleasure taking in one of the old classics I’ve never seen. Some of those classics reached “perfection.”

Accomplishments like An American In Paris, Psycho, The Treasure of

This Lady Was Already Liberated!

(Ab0ve:) Marie Severin—and her cover rough for The Avengers #83 (Dec. 1970), featuring The Valkyrie and her Lady Liberators. The sketch was sent— with Roy’s note to “make other girls a bit bigger”—to John Buscema, who penciled the finished cover. The photo appeared in the March ’77 issue of the fanzine Fans of Central Jersey, in conjunction with Bernie Hogya’s interview with Marie, which was reprinted in A/E #95. Thanks to Bernie, Barry Pearl, & Nick Caputo. [Art ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

the Sierra Madre, The Wizard of Oz, Shane, West Side Story, Maltese Falcon, and Citizen Kane (to name just a handful) could not have possibly been scored, cast, directed, or written any better than they were.

“Perfection” sometimes finds its way into comic magazines, also. From cover to cover, there are collective efforts that couldn’t have been colored, lettered, inked, drawn, (and in Roy’s case) written (and/or edited) better by any conceivable combo in the industry. Conan the Barbarian #20 is one of those comics. The Cimmerian’s young-mercenary period was delivered at its best through Roy’s scripting, Barry Smith’s penciling, Dan Adkins’ inking, and even John Costanza’s innovative lettering; all added to the mind-blowing quality of the book. This was a top issue of Conan in a line of toppers!

That said—Roy’s sensahumor should not go without a mention in his Marvel efforts. I still laugh at his great Not Brand Echh parodies (particularly “The Origin of The Simple Surfer!” in #13, “Captain Marvin” in #9, “The Origin of Charlie America!” in #3, “Arch and the Teenstalk” from #9, and his send-up of Stuporman’s start in #7). The Spoof take-off on Dark Shadows (“Darn Shadows,” issue #1) was wonderful, as well.

Dork Shadows The splash page of the Lee Hester-lauded parody “Darn Shadows!” from Spoof #1 (Oct. 1970). Artist Marie Severin told Roy T. at the time that, although the youngsters in the tale were characters in the popular daytime TV gothic series Dark Shadows, she actually based their likenesses in the parody on what she figured Roy and then-wife Jean must’ve looked like as moppets! Script by RT. Thanks to Barry Pearl for the Spoof scan—and to Lee Hester for giving us an excuse to print it! [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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What made these stories chart toppers? Wonderful cartooning by Marie Severin (Marvel’s all-time best at the funny stuff!), Tom Sutton, and Gene Colan (all terrific talents!) all helped made it work. Yes, Roy’s reached perfection in his chosen field… and given us some of his own “classic moving pictures” worth remembering.

DR. MICHAEL J. VASSALLO – TwoMorrows contributor In its third incarnation, Roy’s Alter Ego is a national treasure. There has never been a publication that allowed the deep ongoing dissection of comics history, month after month, as these 100 wonderful issues have.

Nearly every major figure has been examined, company publishing histories evaluated, characters highlighted, and incredible interviews with creators both well-known and long-lost, have been conducted by Jim Amash, helped by an array of the finest fan historians and industry professionals. The material presented over the years will provide reference for future research and scholarship for years to come.

My own connection with Alter Ego came in the form of articles detailing Timely and Atlas creators of the 1940s and 1950s, my main area of interest and research. I thank Roy tremendously for giving me the opportunity and venue to present my own interviews of lesser-known Timely creators, wonderful artists like Allen Bellman and Marion Sitton, talents deserving to have their stories and experiences told. I was happy to shed light on Vince Fago’s Timely funny-animal line and all the great creators that contributed to it. And lastly, Roy and Alter Ego gave me the opportunity to show fandom just how fantastic and prolific an artist Joe Maneely was for Stan Lee’s Atlas line in the 1950s. Roy, congratulations on an incredible run, and may it long continue. I’m eagerly looking forward to the next 100 issues!

ERNIE COLÓN – artist/creator I’m tempted to state that Roy Thomas is the premier writer in the history of comics.

Capping Things Off “Doc V.”—and a drawing done a couple of years back by Golden Age Timely bullpenner Allen Bellman in response to the “Death of Captain America” storyline. Thanks to MJV & Barry Pearl for the photo, and to Allen for the art.

We’ve no idea who the silhouetted funeral attendees are! [Captain America, Sub-Mariner, & Human Torch TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Before anybody starts throwing ripe, vaguely organic clods at me, let’s consider his output. Others have produced as much, and some few even more, material than Roy. Many have worked in as many genres as he— whether X-Men, Arak, Son of Thunder (which I happily worked on with him), or Captain Carrot. But Roy imbued his stories—not only with inner logic—but with a sense that there was real-life logic to the goingson. A rarity in comics—a given in Roy’s work.

Arak, of course, is my favorite of all his work. Never a fan of superheroes, I jumped at the chance to draw this great character and wonderful premise. I’d gladly be drawing it still, had Arak been allowed to develop.

FRANK BRUNNER - artist/creator Back in the early ’70s, I had Roy Thomas’ ear, so to speak. After all, he had hired me to draw “Dr. Strange”… so when I heard he was reserving future adaptations of Robert E. Howard stories of Conan, I quickly got on his list and reserved Howard’s “The Scarlet Citadel”—one of my very favorite Conan stories of when he was King Conan!

When the time came, Roy sent me the paperback edition… and simply

Another Fragrant Hint Of Colón You already saw a photo of Ernie Colón on p. 15—where you were reminded that, three decades before his and writer Sid Jacobson’s bestselling graphic novel adaptation of The 9-11 Report, Ernie penciled the Arak/Son of Thunder series he co-created with writers Roy & Dann Thomas. These pencils from the splash page of Arak #2 (Oct. 1981) appeared in the magazine Comics Feature #11 (Aug. 1981). [Art ©2011 DC Comics.]

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How Much Is Brunner’s Art Worth?

A Buccaneer!

Frank Brunner—and a previously unpublished drawing of Conan, Red Sonja, and Zula (the earlier comic book warrior, not Grace Jones in the film Conan the Destroyer), battling pirates much as they did in 1970s issues of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian. Roy wrote the earliest comic books featuring all three sword-and-sorcery heroes. [Conan & Zula TM & ©2011 Conan Properties International, LLC; Red Sonja TM & ©2011 Red Sonja, LLC; other art elements ©2011 Frank Brunner.]

Frank, by the way, is currently accepting art commissions for covers, splash panels, or pin-up recreations, or for new compositions; art can be pencils only, inked, or full color (minimum order $150). Contact him through his website at www.frankbrunner.net. Tell ’im Alter Ego sent you!

said, “It’s yours to adapt, break it down into a 48-page story” (or more if needed). This I did… and it almost took me a year… during which time I fed pages to Roy for final dialogue and captions. Apparently he liked everything I did, and there were no problems or wrangling whatsoever… we were both on the “same page” about Conan! (Pun intended.)

DWIGHT BOYD – TwoMorrows contributor Like Roy, I lean toward the Golden Age WWII era of “costumed crimefighters,” as my mother (who bought Sensation Comics and Wonder Woman in the early ’40s) said the kids in her North Carolina neighborhood called those early villain smashers. So I share affection for the Justice Society and the All Winners Squad, which Roy retooled wonderfully into The Invaders in the 1970s.

Even Alter Ego, a charming comic book mini-series begun in 1986, is special for being along that Golden Age line. Rob Lindsay, a young comics fan, dons a mysterious mask, becomes the grown-up hero Alter Ego, and promptly skirts the dimension barriers into the war-torn 1940s, where he gets to knock around Axis warmongers with help from the Holy Terror (Black Terror), Scarlet Streak (Silver Streak), Skyboy (Airboy), and others that Thomas decided to “reintroduce” to ’80s readers. (I was glad he did.) This was a worthy addition to Roy’s takes on the Justice Society (in AllStar Squadron) and The Invaders, penciled/inked in a 1940s verve by Ron Harris, and written… by a comic master.

[NOTE: See p. 72]

GERRY CONWAY – writer/creator

“Atari” In Japanese Means “Attack!”

The Ross Andru/Dick Giordano wraparound cover of the mini-comic Atari Force, Vol. 1, #5 (1983), which was published in conjunction with work Gerry Conway (see recent photo at right) and Roy T. were doing for the then Warner-owned video game company (see pp. 53-54). While they co-created the Atari Force concept, Gerry did all the scripting on that title. (While greatly appreciating his ex-partner’s kind words re his Avengers work, Roy figured there’s no percentage in reprinting panels from his 70issue run on that Marvel title, since nearly all of them are currently on view in Vol. 410 of the Marvel Masterworks: The Avengers hardcover series.) [Art ©2011 Atari, Inc., or its successors in interest.]

I’m a big fan of Roy’s work on The Avengers, in particular the Scarlet Witch/Vision storyline, and, of course, the epic Kree-Skrull War. With both, Roy took the foundation for modern comic book storytelling established by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and built something special and unique.

The Scarlet Witch/Vision relationship, besides being a metaphor for sociallydefying “illicit” love, was a more mature and thoughtful development of the relationship between the Thing and Alicia—one that

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explored the negative consequences of the kind of “love that dares not speak its name” as well as the life-affirming aspects. In a similar way, the KreeSkrull War was a more mature and thoughtful version of the grand interstellar conflicts implied in many of Stan and Jack’s “cosmic” stories— again, bringing a more emotionally developed understanding to the drama, revealing the human costs behind the spectacle.

As a writer, I was directly influenced by reading Roy’s scripts: his use of language, and the way his dialog was spaced on the typed page, read like free verse poetry—at least, it read like that to me. His writing made me aware not just of what my characters said, or the way in which they said it, but also how the dialog itself looked on the printed page. Roy’s work had both a verbal and visual aesthetic that I admired and tried to emulate. As an editor, he taught me the value of trusting another writer’s voice: Roy never tried to impose his own voice on the writers he worked with, something I was too new to appreciate at the time. While everyone who wrote for Marvel at that time tried to write, at least to some degree, in the “voice” of Stan Lee, Roy never actively enforced this, with the result that while most Marvel writers of the day certainly wrote in a “Marvel style,” we did so each in our own way.

P.C. Hamerlinck and give them the freedom to do their jobs. But when we all hand in our columns, it’s comforting to know that Roy’s there, backing us up with his encyclopedic knowledge of comic book lore. I think we all breathe easier knowing that he’s double-checking facts and correcting punctuation. Working with a former English teacher has its perks! Roy’s love of comics shines through every issue, and is the main reason Alter Ego remains my favorite super-hero fanzine. Thanks for everything, Roy, and best wishes for the next hundred!

MAGGIE THOMPSON – senior editor, Comics Buyer’s Guide (& co-editor of Comic Art in the 1960s) Alter Ego—#100? Seriously, 100 issues of this labor of love? Half a century goes by, trends come and go, fanzines come and go, back issues of comic books begin to take on a luster the world recognizes—and Alter Ego is still there, dependably keeping comics buffs in touch with each other and leading them behind the scenes of comics history.

Sunken Treasure Michael T. Gilbert’s comic-cryptic mug can be seen on p. 113. Here, you’ll have to settle for one of his rhapsodic finishes rendered to an unused circa-1942 cover sketch (probably drawn by Carl Pfeufer, who succeeded Bill Everett on “Sub-Mariner”) which was first seen in A/E #49. Michael sells these drawings, y’know—so get in line! [Sub-Mariner TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Given the existence of a “house style,” Roy permitted and enjoyed a wide variety of interpretations of that style. We may all have been playing a riff on the “A Train,” but he allowed and encouraged each of us to take our solo. He was a pleasure to work for, and with, and my time as a writer under his editorial direction was one of the high points of my career.

MICHAEL T. GILBERT writer/artist (& editor of A/E’s “Comic Crypt”) [NOTE: In order to avoid repeating much of what Michael T. writes on pp. 113-123, we have truncated his remarks here.]

In the mid-1960s, Roy graduated from fanzines to writing and editing Marvel comics. When those chores proved too time-consuming, he passed his A/E editing baton to fellow writer Mike Friedrich. Mike’s only issue appeared in June 1978, sporting a handsome Bill Everett cover. Mike asked me to color it, and so my first Alter Ego work appeared in issue #11, the final issue of the original series.

I’d finally arrived!

In 1998-99 I was thrilled yet again to be invited to be a part of the revival of A/E, and set to work on the very first installment of what eventually became Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt.

One hundred issues later I’m still thrilled. Roy’s been a joy to work with. He’s smart enough to pick people like Jim Amash, Bill Schelly, and

Wow. (Not to mention Dynamic, Super, Fantastic, and More Fun.)

I think we’ve all agreed that early 1961 was “comic book time.” Those of us who grew up loving the treasure trove of four-color delights that taught us to read were now old enough to write. And make magazines of our own.

So what made Alter Ego special? We all know the credit it deserves for its pioneering status. But there was another, even more impressive factor in its importance. My late husband, Don, and I were pioneers, too. But what we did not do was twofold: We did not seek wider publication for our fanzines—which means we did little back then to spread the word about the hobby so as to help unite aficionados. And we did not doggedly continue our fanzine, year in, year out.

Thank you, Roy, for maintaining this service to the world of pop culture! It’s so great to have a link to the past that continues to pull back the curtain concealing the history of the universe we love.

JOHN ROMITA – artist/creator Roy Thomas and I always planned to work together, but the only time we did was a four-page “Satana” story. It was a black-&-white tone job with a twist, no dialogue in the first three pages, which Roy compensated for on page four.

We conferred on projects often, and while he was writing some tales of Marvel heroes set in the 1940s, I mentioned to him that as a 14-year-old I had worked in Manhattan as a messenger after school. Soon after, he showed me a story with a chubby kid at a Times Square War Bond rally

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Ibis In the Morning (Far left:) Don & Maggie Thompson as Ibis the Invincible and Princess Taia at a 1962 science-fiction (!) WorldCon’s masquerade contest, in the midst of their editorship of the iconic fanzine Comic Art. Photo courtesy of Maggie.

who helped a super-hero. The artist didn’t know that, at the time, I was fit and trim. The chubby John Romita appeared in later years. Roy will know which series it was, and I recall doing a simulated cover in ’40s style of the great (Alex) Schomburg. Maybe that qualifies as a second collaboration?

MARK ARNOLD – writer; editor of The Harveyville Fun Times People who know me well know that I don’t typically like a comic book creator necessarily for their most famous work. While I enjoy Roy’s work in Alter Ego and his many titles at Marvel and DC, my favorite work by Roy has to be his cameo appearances in Marvel’s Crazy Magazine.

The issues in question are #1, 3, & 7.

In #1 and 3, they do a parody of those silly single-page fumettis that regularly appeared in National Lampoon called “Foto Funnies” (here called “Foto Funkies”). In the parody, Roy and another guy are trying to convince a sexy babe between them to bare her chest. This funny sequence was reprinted in the Crazy Super Special #1 (1975), arguably one of the funniest black&-white humor magazines ever published.

In Crazy #7 (1974), even though the magazine was barely a year old, they had apparently amassed enough unused material to qualify for a “reject” issue. Stan Lee, Marv Wolfman, and Roy take turns holding their noses at these otherwise unpublished pieces that create yet

(Left:) The four-color Ibis and Taia on the cover of another Ibis the Invincible #4 (Spring 1945). Artist uncertain. memorable issue [Ibis & Taia TM & ©2011 DC Comics.] during the classic (Above:) The cover of the Thompsons’ spring 1961 early years of fanzine Comic Art #1, as important in its way as was Crazy. I Alter-Ego #1. See p. 63. [©2011 Maggie Thompson.] encourage anyone so inclined to pick up Crazy Magazine # 1-14 and the aforementioned Super Special, as they contain some of the best satire ever to appear in printed format.

Yes, I did read and enjoy Savage Sword of Conan, Arak, and All-Star Squadron, among others, and truly enjoy Alter Ego now, but for my

Jazz One Of Those Things The “chubby [Romita] kid” panels to which John refers, from Marvel Twoin-One Annual #1 (1976), were reprinted in the still-available TwoMorrows volume John Romita… and All That Jazz! (2007). So at left is an even rarer “collaboration” between John and Roy—when, at editor-in-chief RT’s request, art director JR obligingly drew an illo of a certain Cimmerian for the next-issue ad in Marvel’s black-&-white mag Savage Tales #4 (May 1974). Thanks to Barry Pearl. [Art ©2011 Conan Properties International LLC.] (Above:) Probably at a cocktail party held during one of Phil Seuling’s New York Comic Art Conventions, circa 1968 to the early ’70s, Jazzy Johnny (in center, wearing tie) shares a moment with Roy & Jean Thomas. That’s genial Gene Colan to their right. “Those were the days, my friend… we thought they’d never end!” For more Romita art, see p. 94.

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Foto Fonies Mark Arnold got a kick out of the parodies of The National Lampoon’s fumetti feature that Roy and then-wife Jean co-wrote for Marvel’s Crazy Magazine #1 & #3 (1973-74), sampled at right—which “starred” Roy, Jeanie, and writer Steve Englehart. Wonder if Mark’s aware that those four “Foto Funkies” were actually parodies of a real “Foto Funnies” or two, one of which appeared in the Dec. 1972 issue of NatLamp, spotlighting Roy, Jeanie, and the satire mag’s co-editor/co-founder Doug Kenney?

Thanks to Barry Pearl. [Photo ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

money, I always have to hark back to where I first heard the name and saw pictures of Roy Thomas, because Crazy is where I saw him first.

Congratulations, Roy, on 100 issues of Alter Ego. [Interested in a ‘zine about Harvey Comics, with additional material about classic animation and the great years of Archie, Gold Key, Dell, and the like? Go to http://funideas.home.att.net and find out about The Harveyville Fun Times!]

MARV WOLFMAN – writer/creator/editor Roy brought me into Marvel and proved to be one of the best editors you could hope for, as well as a great creator. He understood comics, worked with you to make you better, and had a clear view of what Marvel

Kill The Umpire—Er, We Mean, Vampire!

Marv Wolfman with star Wesley Snipes on the set of the 1998 film Blade, which featured the vampire slayer created by Marv and artist Gene Colan for Marvel’s Tomb of Dracula—plus a 2001 pencil panorama by the Dracula artist par excellence. Not that we recall this precise scene ever happening in an issue of that classic four-color series. Thanks to Chris Wallace for the art scan. Sadly, we’ve lost the name of whoever sent us the photo; maybe it was Marv himself? [Daredevil & Marvel Dracula TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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was, but more importantly was able to communicate it. I would also love to give a complete list of the dozens of characters he created, often coming up with the name, the powers, the concept, and what made them different, only to assign them to others to write (and to find those others taking full credit for characters they didn’t originate but only helped develop), but I simply don’t have the time.

However, they are among Marvel’s absolute favorites and best sellers.

Because Roy’s credits as a writer have been so overpowering, his editorial importance is sometimes forgotten. I thank Roy for seeing something in my early work that let him take a gamble with me until I actually developed my talent, and I was very proud to have worked under him as his assistant editor, then associate editor, and then finally as editor of Marvel’s black-&-white magazines before moving onto the title of Editorin-Chief of Marvel’s color books.

As far as his writing, his work on Conan paved the way for all of us to take a more adult approach to writing comics. Without Conan there could not have been a Tomb of Dracula or Man-Thing or Shang-Chi, and without those I doubt comics would have grown up as quickly as they did.

JERRY K. BOYD – TwoMorrows contributor A tale of two summers: In 1967, Mighty Marvel was at one of its early and many zeniths.

There were a slew of all-new summer specials, mind-boggling in scope.

Roy put together Avengers Special #1 with “Dashing” Don Heck—a tour de force—but his regular work on the Assemblers’ monthly book was no less mesmerizing. The Red Guardian, The Black Widow’s supposedly long-dead husband, made his dramatic entrance onto the Marvel stage in

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rivals the Kree and the Skrulls, with our planet as one of their battlegrounds. Guest stars included The Inhumans (good and evil), Captain Marvel, and The Super Skrull (naturally)—and I can’t leave out Rick Jones’ galaxy-saving “Psychotron” number. He was given the powers to temporarily bring back his GA favorites—The Blazing Skull, The Patriot, the Vision, Sub-Mariner, Human Torch, and others—to combat the interstellar enemies of Earth when it mattered most and the Avengers were elsewhere.

Summer wonderment…

How about Conan? For me, “The Black Hound of Vengeance!”

(Conan #20) and the Red Nails adaptation from Savage Tales #2 & #3 still defy adjectives. I’ll try anyway and keep it simple—Roy Thomas at his word-painting best.

Allow me to add a few more. Not Brand Echh #7 saw the best Superman spoof ever, in Thomas and Severin’s “The Origin of Stuporman!” “The Castle of the Undead!” spotlighted the best monsterdestroyer (Solomon Kane) vs. monster (Count Dracula) tale ever (Dracula Lives! #3). All of these were special—’cause they came from a very special talent, Mr. Roy Thomas.

TONY ISABELLA – writer/editor

Fantasy Masterpieces?

(Above:) Jerry K. Boyd in 2006, and the pin-up he drew especially for this issue of Roy the Boy with some of the Marvel heroes and villains he cocreated in spite of himself. (Clockwise from top center:) Sunfire, The Red Guardian, Red Sonja, Ultron, Yellowjacket, Sauron, The Banshee, Morbius the Living Vampire, Warlock, Havok, and the modern-day Black Knight— with most of those stalwarts’ original pencilers duly identified. JKB even copied the Rascally One’s signature! However, Roy swears: he’s no warmonger, but he’s never worn a peace symbol in his life! Thanks to Jerry & to Back Issue! editor Michael Eury for the photo. [Red Sonja TM & ©2011 Red Sonja, LLC; Marvel characters TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2011 Jerry K. Boyd.]

the tension-filled Avengers #43 as a Soviet-bred version of Captain America, his ultimate target. Moreover, he was working with renegade Russian and Red Chinese warmongers who were planning to climax Cold War machinations with the Psychotron, a device that would win the struggle for power for the Reds through mass hallucinations in the West!

Whew!

In 1971 (summertime again), Roy, Sal and John Buscema, and Neal Adams were crafting an even bigger “war”—this time between ancient

Boy Toys (Left:) Tony Isabella and son Eddie at a 2009 con. Tony’s the short one.

(Right:) The panel from the Isabella-scripted story “War Toy” that echoes Michael W. Kaluta’s painted cover for Marvel’s black-&-white mag Unknown Worlds of Science Fiction #2 (March 1975). Editor Roy T.’s cover idea—a robot warrior in place of one of the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima in early 1945, only with the setting changed to the moon—was expanded—and very well, too—into a full story by Tony. Pencils were

by George Pérez, inks by Rico Rival. [Panel ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

My hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, wasn’t exactly a hotbed of comics fandom when I was a lad. However, somewhere along the way, through my letters and address appearing in comic books, I was discovered by and discovered fanzines.

The only issue of the original Alter Ego run I recall owning was the one with The Marvel Family on its cover. The ’zine was so much more literate and professional that the ’zines I was contributing to that it intimidated me. I know I bought the issues Roy Thomas produced after he went to work for Marvel Comics, but, handsome as those issues were, they didn’t give me the same zing s the more fanzine-line incarnation of A/E had.

Leap ahead a few decades to the launch of the new Alter Ego, which quickly became and has remained my favorite magazine about comic books. Every issue I am amazed by the insights and scholarship, and the sheer history, that fills the magazine. If the magazine wasn’t also so much fun, I think I could claim college credit for reading it.

Great history, amazing revelations, entertaining writing—that’s Alter Ego. If the comics industry had something like the Hollywood Walk of

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Fame, my friend/mentor Roy Thomas would deserve three stars: as a writer, as an editor, and as the guy who brings us Alter Ego.

MICHAEL AMBROSE –writer & editor of The Charlton Spotlight Roy Thomas burst onto the scene at a time when my comics-buying budget was an enormous two bits a month, one-half of which was dedicated to Spider-Man, the other to a random choice guided by fannish reaction to whatever four-color cover leaped out from the stands. More often than not it was Strange Tales that grabbed me. When Dr. Strange got his own title at last with #169 in 1968, who was there to take over Doc’s scripting reins from the able Denny O’Neil?

Roy, with at first Dan Adkins and Tom Palmer and then with Gene Colan, who took the Good Doctor to new, incredible heights of phantasmagoric phantasy for this 12-year-old Marvelite. My first experience of Dr. Strange had been the baffling but wonderful Strange Tales #126 (Nov. 1964), when Doc first tickled amulets with the Dread Dormammu,

Just Two Of Those Things (Right:) Two sketches of formidable characters, both by Sal Buscema: the ever-lovin’, blueeyed Thing—and Sal himself! The former was done for French comics artist Chris Malgrain, who kindly provided us with a copy; the latter appeared in Jim Amash & Eric-NolenWeathington’s still-onsale 2010 volume Sal Buscema: Comics’ Fast and Furious Artist.

[Thing TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; self-portrait ©2011 Sal Buscema.]

courtesy of Stan and Steve. Dormammu had supposedly bought the farm big-time when he’d tackled Eternity him(it?)self a couple a years later, but hey, you can’t keep a good flame-headed entity down for long, can you? Sure enough, before too many issues into his new run, Roy had the Big D back on the scene to bedevil Doc again! Roy always knew uncannily how to get to the heart of any book he wrote. For me, his run on the series was the first time “Dr. Strange” really shone since Ditko had left. Unfortunately, it didn’t last… but that’s a different story.

The point is—it was the first time I became aware of Roy Thomas as a name to look for in comics. I haven’t stopped looking for it since. Roy, long may you wave in this fan’s heart!

The Many Ghosts Of Dr. Strange (Above:) Charlton Spotlight editor Michael Ambrose, and a real anomaly: the penciled version of an alternate splash panel apparently penciled by Gene Colan for Dr. Strange #180 (May 1969). While the layout, including the Colan-lettered title, is very similar to the one that appeared in the finished comics, scripted by Roy T. and inked by Tom Palmer, it’s not the same one.

We’ll have to get to the bottom of this mystery when we’ve got a little more time! Thanks to Michael for the photo, and to Glen David Gold for the scan of the original art, which he says was recently purchased by a friend of his.

[Dr. Strange TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

SAL BUSCEMA – artist/creator Roy was the first writer I had the pleasure of working with when I started at Marvel. As such, he was a big help in getting me started. Roy is the consummate professional, and his clear plotting made it easier for me to hit the ground runnin’!

We talked frequently on the phone discussing plots and ideas, and

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generally developed a good working relationship. Although his plots were detailed, they gave me the freedom to put a lot of myself into every story. It was a particular advantage for me to have started my career working with such a talented professional as Roy Thomas.

MICHAEL STEWART – TwoMorrows contributor Roy Thomas’ Avengers were the Avengers, as far as I’m concerned. Roy brought in Hercules, Black Widow, The Black Panther, The Vision, and The Black Knight. He had some terrific storytelling help in the brothers Buscema, George Tuska, Don Heck, Frank Giacoia, Gene Colan, Neal Adams, Barry Smith (as he was known then), and Rich Buckler. This was my favorite title (after Lee and Kirby’s Thor) in the 1960s, and Thomas and John Buscema, inked to perfection by Tom Palmer in particular, made it happen monthly to my ongoing delight.

Along with the aforementioned talents and heroes, villainous swine like Ultron, Arkon, the “new” Masters of Evil, The ManApe, The Grim Reaper, The Lethal Legion, Red Wolf (who quickly turned out to be one of the good guys), Zodiac, the Squadron Sinister, Red Guardian, and the Lady Liberators (who turned out to rather nice, also, once they divested themselves of the Enchantress—Avengers #83) were other feathers in Roy’s writing cap. Wow.

To Ayers Is Human…

Maybe Darlin’ Dick Ayers is griping to Smilin’ Stan Lee about his 1960s Sgt. Fury scripts in this photo taken not long ago at a New York comicon—while Dick and Jazzy Johnny Romita both contributed to the commission piece at right done for collector Peter Roe, who generously shared it with us. Dick drew the Western Ghost Rider in the 1950s for Vin Sullivan’s Magazine Enterprises company, and in the late ’60s penciled Marvel’s incarnation. (If you wanna see the word-laden “DDay” epic Dick mentions, latch onto Marvel Masterworks: Sgt. Fury, Vol. 3.) [Spider-Man & Ghost Rider TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

More “wow” came along when Roy teamed up with Adams and Palmer (again) on that incredible X-Men run. Sauron, Ka-Zar, Magneto, and our merry mutants in the Savage Land were the protagonists in a standout story arc (X-Men #60-63), surrounded by other exceptional yarns.

Counter-Earth set up problems for me. DC had turned me off as a reader with all their different planets and time continuums, etc. But Roy took a chance on an alternate world for his Adam Warlock and it paid off nicely.

Thanks for all the hard work and all the wows, Roy…

DICK AYERS – artist/creator A story Roy T. wrote and I penciled that I enjoyed very much was about Sgt. Fury and his Howlers landing on Utah Beach on D-Day. (I frowned on his having every Howler talk—the balloons covered the landing craft and the beach activity.) It was an improvement, though, and I’m mighty proud of it.

3. Along with over 25 years of Classics Illustrated fanzines, this body of work represents another cornerstone of my personal comics history archives.

Why is Roy’s publication so valuable, unique and vital? Solid, historical research by such writers as Jim Amash and Alberto Becattini combines with intriguing, rare artwork and photographs, all edited to perfection by Mr. Thomas and associates. And, to tell the truth, I also get a kick out of Roy’s clever captions, which feature plays on words and alliteration, always entertaining.

Roy’s superior adapting ability in the field of literary classics is another facet of this multi-talented Renaissance man. The recent plethora of Marvel Illustrated issues done by Roy have built upon this legacy, previously highlighted by the Conan catalogue and Stoker’s Dracula. I also look forward to the Alter Ego annual Halloween issue—great fun if you’re into the Frankenstein/ Dracula franchises. I really have enjoyed, too, the recent two-part interview with former Classics stalwart Lou Cameron, preceded by another Gilberton artist, the late Rudy Palais.

Let’s have another grand 100 issues, Roy, if not more.

JOHN C. HAUFE, JR. – Classics Illustrated historian

BILL MORRISON – writer/artist and editor-in-chief of Bongo Comics

As we gather ‘round to celebrate Roy Thomas’ 100th birthday (whoops, this is supposed to be a Tribute, not a Roast), I am pleased and honored to pass along some views of the man and his mission. Although I have the TPB reprint of the original Alter Ego incarnation, most of my experience with this esteemed publication has been with the current magazine, Vol.

The best part about this assignment was that it forced me to take the time to sit down and re-read some great Roy Thomas stories. I can’t believe how tough it was to narrow down my favorites, but after careful consideration I’m going to have to go with the Roy Thomas/Neal Adams/Tom Palmer issues of X-Men (those being issues 57-63 of the

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original series.) I’ve never been a rabid X-Men fan, but these issues really grabbed me and held on tight when I was a kid, and they still hold up today. From the cover of #56 with the Living Monolith about to do a chin-up on the X-Men logo, to the grand finale with Ka-Zar in the Savage Land, this saga has it all, including Magneto, the creation of Havok (one of my favorite super-hero costumes ever!), the alluring Lorna Dane, new and improved Sentinels, the origin of Sauron, and soooo much more! In these issues, Roy established a ton of incredible mythology that seems, from my casual viewpoint, to be still in play in today’s various X-Men stories, as well as in the movies.

The work is definitely right up there with Roy’s brilliant Avengers Kree-Skrull War saga, but I feel it has so much more of the angst we’ve all come to expect from a good Marvel tale.

And I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed Roy’s writing more than when he’s teamed up with Neal Adams and Tom Palmer.

Going Wilde

I hope these stories have been reprinted in a collection! If so, buy it and read it! If not, by all means buy, beg, borrow (but don’t steal) the originals!

You can thank me later.

John Haufe, Jr.’s, business card says “Classics Illustrated Historian” and “Sales – Jack Lake Productions,” the latter being the company that’s currently reissuing trade paperback editions of the vintage CI series—but John’s a collector, as well.

He’s seen at left with Lou Cameron’s painted cover for CI #120 (June 1954), which adapted Charles Nordhoff & James Norman Hall’s novel The Hurricane.

John’s also a booster, however, of Roy T.’s ten literary-classics adaptations (eleven, if you count the 2010 colorization of his and Dick Giordano’s Dracula) done for Marvel over the past few years. Seen above are early (and previously unpublished) head studies done by artist Sebastian Fiumara for the protagonist of Oscar Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray—the 2008 release which, to Roy’s own surprise, became his favorite of the adaptations he did specifically for the Marvel Illustrated series. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

JOHN MORROW – TwoMorrows publisher and editor of The Jack Kirby Collector Recently, Roy Thomas asked me for my recollections of just how in the world Alter Ego ended up coming back in the late 1990s and being published by TwoMorrows. My often lousy memory left me assuming that, since it was first brought back in 1998 as the flip-side of Comic Book Artist magazine, CBA’s editor Jon B. Cooke was totally responsible for dragging Roy kicking and screaming back into fanzine production. After swapping notes with Jon and Bill Schelly, though, it turns out I had a bit more to do with it than I initially recalled. Both Roy and Bill attended the 1997 Chicago Comicon for the Fandom Reunion Luncheon (bringing most of the “Founding Fathers” of 1960s comics fandom together to reminisce), and that’s where the ball got rolling at the TwoMorrows booth.

I’d met Roy for the first time a month or so prior, at Heroes Con in Charlotte, North Carolina. We’d corresponded by mail and phone a little before that in regards to my Jack Kirby Collector magazine, and I remember how excited I was to be meeting him in person. I must not have embarrassed myself too badly, because at the following

Bongo Bill (Above:) Bongo Comics editor Bill Morrison next to a comics rack filled with some of his favorite reading matter. He gives glowing marks to the Thomas/Adams/Palmer X-Men stories of the late 1960s, which are on full view in Marvel Masterworks: The X-Men, Vol.6.

(Lect:) A Morrison drawing of Batman—an homage to artists Kane and Sprang and even to writer/co-creator Bill Finger. [Batman & Robin TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

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Chicago Con, Roy stopped by our booth and asked if my wife Pam and I would like to accompany him up to Jerry Bails’ hotel room for an impromptu gathering. Being a new fanzine publisher myself, I was in awe of the work these guys had done to kick-start fandom in the 1960s, literally starting at zero, without computers and the Internet to help the movement along. So I dragged Pam along to hear about the Good Old Days.

Jerry and his wife were there, as was Howard Keltner, and they, Bill Schelly, and Roy sat around regaling me with stories of what it was like doing spirit-duplicator masters, trying to dig up news from the usually tight-lipped DC and Marvel offices of the day, and more details of what it was like for them in the early 1960s. I contributed pretty much nothing to the proceedings, but just sat back and took it all in. It was a delightful time for everyone (even Pam had fun talking to Jerry’s wife Jean).

Sometime during the weekend, that fandom fever swept over me, and I mentioned to Roy that he needed to get back into fandom in some way and do something with TwoMorrows (which, at the time, was just the Kirby Collector, although I think we were beginning to formulate the idea for Comic Book Artist at that point). Pam recalls Roy at our booth, while I was waiting on a customer, humbly asking her, “Why does your husband want me to do something? What does he think I should do?” Bill Schelly also recalls the impetus for resurrecting Alter Ego started at that Chicago Con. So it turns out I get all the credit for bringing Alter Ego back to life,

and saving comics fandom in the process. In gratitude, you may send gifts of cash and brownies to the TwoMorrows address listed elsewhere in this issue. (No C.O.D.s, please.)

Okay, so I didn’t actually single-handedly bring Alter Ego back, and in fact, I apparently almost nixed the whole thing. Roy still has a note he sent me after seeing an ad for the upcoming CBA magazine, needling me for listing people like himself and Gil Kane as “forgotten” comics creators.

Not the wisest choice of ad copy, particularly if I wanted Roy to dip his toes back into fanzines, but he was gracious enough not to take it personally. I sent that note to Jon Cooke, who in turn contacted Roy about adding Alter Ego to CBA, and the rest is, literally, history.

I can’t say enough about how wonderful it’s been working with Roy all these years. He’s a thorough professional, having never missed a deadline on Alter Ego in 100 issues. Whenever any dispute has arisen, he’s been a consummate gentleman to deal with, and always willing to listen to all sides before making a decision. His All-Star Companion books are amazing resources for fans, and a thrill to publish. It’s still hard to believe I’m in the enviable position of publishing work by the guy who wrote all those great Invaders issues that I devoured as a teenager. Here’s hoping the next 100 issues are much fun as the first!

SCOTT SHAW! – cartoonist Rascally Roy’s Oddest Oddball Hits!

Roy Thomas has written dozens of outstanding comic book stories— and I certainly enjoyed working with him on my “Man-Spider” back-up story in Marvel’s What If? #8 and the original run of our DC co-creation Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew! But my favorite stories written by the Rascally One are probably the ones that tickle my tastes in Oddball Comics! Here are three of ’em…

FANTASTIC FOUR #171 (Marvel, June 1976) On a cover penciled by Jack Kirby and inked by Joe Sinnott, editor Roy introduced Gorr, the Golden Gorilla with a blurb, “Not Just Another Giant Gorilla Story!” But although “Death Is a Golden Gorilla!” was written by Roy, drawn by Rich Buckler, George Pérez, and Joe Sinnott, I’m hesitant to admit it, but I don’t remember much at all about that issue of FF, other than the fact that Gorr was colored bright banana-yellow. (I guess it was just another giant gorilla story, after all.) But man, oh man, do I love Roy’s hyperbolic cover blurb!

FANTASTIC FOUR #176 (Marvel, Nov. 1976)

…Till It Be Morrows!

John and Pam Morrow, the two Morrows of TwoMorrows Publishing—and Jerry Ordway’s rough for another co-venture of the Morrows and Roy T., The All-Star Companion, Vol. 4. There are several minor differences between this layout and the finished art, which we’ll let you have fun spotting. Thanks to the Morrows for the photo, and to Jerry Ordway for the art. [Justice Society of America & Infinity, Inc. TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Roy’s, George Pérez’, and Joe Sinnott’s “Improbable as It May Seem— The Impossible Man Is Back In Town!” was an unlikely sequel to both stories in FF #11 (Feb. 1963), primarily “The Impossible Man,” which was essentially Stan Lee and Jack Kirby’s take on the Gore Vidal play Visit to a Small Planet. In FF #176, The Impossible Man returned from the planet Poppup, determined to convince Marvel Comics’ staff to star him in his own comic book series! In the process, we returned to the Marvel offices, previously seen in # 11’s “A Visit with the Fantastic Four.” This time, we got in-character glimpses of such funnybook luminaries as Stan Lee, George Pérez, Roy Thomas, Jack Kirby, Joe Sinnott, John Verpoorten, Marv Wolfman, Archie Goodwin, Gerry Conway, Marie Severin, and other Marvel staffers—plus the FF, Galactus, Gorr, Sandman, The Wizard, and The Trapster—as Marvel’s tantrum-tossing equivalent of DC’s “Mr. Mxyzptlk” went wild! The tale was so “inside”

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that Roy felt it necessary to include an explanatory article, “The Story behind the Story,” in this outrageously Oddball issue!

WHAT IF? #13 (Marvel, Feb. 1979) Roy was the person responsible for convincing Marvel’s Superpowersthat-be to license Robert E. Howard’s sword-and-sorcery creation Conan the Barbarian, then proceeded to edit and write Conan’s exploits for comics, magazines, and even a feature film. He even transplanted him into the modern-day Marvel Universe in “What If Conan the Barbarian Walked the Earth Today?” With collaborators John Buscema and Ernie Chan, Roy plucked the brawling adventurer from his Hyborian Age surroundings and dropped him smack in the middle of rough, tough New York City, circa 1977. Midway through this 35-page epic, Roy introduced Conan to a scrappy female taxi driver, one who fetchingly resembled Roy’s own red-haired wife-to-be, Dann Thomas—then Danette Couto. But Ribald Roy didn’t stop there: by the story’s end, Conan and “Dan” share some extremely adult—although tastefully depicted—couch time together! That’s an interesting way for a comics writer to tell a lady that he likes her: introduce her to a horny barbarian!

BILL SCHELLY – A/E associate editor & writer Though we were both active in fandom in the 1960s, it wasn’t until about 1992 that I met Roy. After I showed him one of my earliest efforts to chronicle fandom’s past—something called The History of the Amateur Comic Strip—Roy became an enthusiastic supporter of my research. As our contacts via mail (and soon e-mail) continued, his encouragement was always there. In 1995 he even wrote the introduction to my self-

Four-Color Cabfare—And Gorilla Warfare The anthropomorphic contributions of cartoonist Scott Shaw! (photo) to Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew! are discussed on pp. 55-56.

And, since the Thomas-scripted Fantastic Four #176 has been reprinted in the hardcover volumes The Best of the Fantastic Four, [Vol. 1] and Marvel Visionaries: Roy Thomas, above are a few 20th-century “Conan” panels from What If? #13—and, at left, the “not just another giant gorilla story” cover of FF #171. Art for the former is by John Buscema & Ernie Chan—for the latter by Jack Kirby and Joe Sinnott. Thanks to Barry Pearl for the What If? art. [FF cover ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc. • Conan panels ©2011 Conan Properties International, LLC]

published book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom. It’s my belief that his intro helped legitimize and sell copies of the book, which put me “on the map” in 1990s fandom.

I don’t know if it was the second or third time we met in person, but the occasion was the 1997 Fandom Reunion in Chicago. It was fun listening to Roy and Jerry, founders of this magazine, discuss the aspects of comic books and fandom. One could imagine what their meetings had been like in the early 1960s. The fact that Roy made a special point of attending that reunion showed that he was still a fan at heart, despite all his success as a professional writer and editor. Offhand, I can’t think of anyone who can match both his professional achievements and his fannish enthusiasm. I’m sure his contribution to researching comic book history through Alter Ego will be a big part of his legacy.

On a personal level, I’ve loved being a part of the “A/E team” since its revival in 1998, and proud that Roy is a close friend. So Happy 100th issue, O Rascally One, and let’s keep ’em coming!

GEORGE PÉREZ – artist/creator The Fandom Menace Jerry Bails, Howard Keltner, Roy T., and Bill Schelly get together the night before the Fandom Reunion Dinner in Chicago, 1997—and a few months before Bill & Roy’s first collaborative effort, the trade paperback Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine, rolled off the presses—which, like we said before, is still back in print from TwoMorrows. Sadly, 1960s fan Howard Keltner, of the celebrated Texas Trio, passed away only a few months after this photo was taken by Dann Thomas.

Wow, it’s been so long since I first met Roy Thomas. It was somewhere around 1973 and I was just one year out of high school and still a parttime assistant to artist Rich Buckler and I was so excited to actually be in the offices of Marvel Comics. Most of the Bullpen, whose names I had become so familiar with while reading the comics in my even earlier youth, were still there—including Roy, who was on the last days of his editorship of the Marvel’s color comics line at the time.

I remember being so impressed by the informality of the Marvel offices. I was still a bank teller then and not used to the idea of everyone,

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including the bosses, being addressed by their first names.

When I first met Roy, he struck me as just another fanboy, just as excited to be working in comics as I was (although I was still just on the periphery—Roy was one of the first wave of comics fans to really make it in the business).

And, boy, did Roy love to talk about comics. And I mean love in all-caps LOVE. I was both giddy and intimidated chatting with him (although my newbie pride tried to at least appear cool about it all). Little did I imagine that I would get to work with him just a little over a year after our first meeting, when I was asked to fill in for Rich Buckler on Marvel’s legendary flagship title Fantastic Four.

It was quite the thrill, let me tell you, and I received a master class in how to handle those characters as Roy, editorial eagle eye ever vigilant, pointed out where I may have been going wrong regarding character body language, panel emphasis, staying on model—all things that I would incorporate in my work for decades to come. It was also my first personal encounter with Roy’s encyclopedic knowledge and passion for the comic characters of his own youth, since my FF debut would feature the return of old-time hero Marvel Boy (as The Crusader) into the current Marvel Universe.

Thanks to Roy—and the immeasurable artistic talents of FF inker Joe Sinnott—my first issues of the title met with some success and approval—including an invitation to Stan Lee’s office—and my first raise.

As for my favorite story scripted by Roy—well, that indeed is a tough choice, but if pinned to the proverbial wall, and considering my own subsequent comics career, this should be of little surprise. It was the Kree-Skrull War story arc in the pages of The Avengers. Roy’s run on The Avengers contained some of my favorite comics ever, and this was Roy at his peak.

He made me really love The Avengers, a love affair that continues to this day, and for whose impact on my career I will be eternally grateful. Thanks for being there at my beginning, Roy—and thanks for always being there to teach all of us just how rich a history comics (could) have.

MICHAEL AUSHENKER – TwoMorrows contributor I recently enjoyed Quentin Tarantino’s Inglourious Basterds, and it’s not because it reminded me of Pulp Fiction or because I’m the biggest Tarantino fan (I’m not). It had the cartoon-y aesthetic and loose WWII fiction of one of my favorite comics, The Invaders by Roy Thomas and artists Frank Robbins, Frank Springer, and Lee Elias.

Let George Do It—Again!

(Top left:) Hero Initiative board member and super-star artist George Pérez and Amy Dunne, wife of collector (and frequent A/E benefactor) Michael Dunne, pose at the 2009 Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC, with a drawing George had just done of Black Canary. But is that drawing for Michael, who took the photo, or for the lady herself?

As for the gorgeous recent piece of art above—it memorializes the days of the aborted 2004 Avengers/JLA cross-company series, and is an unpublished homage to the cover of 1963’s Justice League of America #21. [Marvel heroes ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; DC heroes ©2011 DC Comics.]

To which Roy adds: “Sigh! Reminds me of the early-1980s days when DC tapped me to write the original JLA/Avengers crossover—you know, the one that never quite happened.

Because I was then co-writing screenplays with fellow DC scripter Gerry Conway, I split the assignment with him; he would do the plotting, while I’d handle the dialoguing later.

Unfortunately, although I was assigned to do a bit of re-plotting after Marvel rejected Gerry’s plot for what we all felt were largely arbitrary reasons, the entire project eventually collapsed, with mutual recriminations fired back and forth between the companies like cannonballs. (I have my own ideas as to why what happened happened… but anyone who knows me already knows who I think sabotaged it. Those are pretty much the same views voiced at the time by artist George and DC managing editor Dick Giordano.) Twenty years later, the project was revived, but by then I had to settle for receiving a free copy of the hardcover collection. Still, when it finally came about, I’m glad George was right there to draw it! Thanks, George, for sharing this fantastic art with us!”

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You can feel the passion Thomas put into The Invaders. It should have been a crummy super-team book, but it was World War II science-fiction, dynamic and creative, and I loved the way Robbins drew Cap and Bucky, the Torch, Sub-Mariner, and especially Union Jack: tall, lean, and heroic. Covers by Jack Kirby and Gil Kane sweetened the deal; those issues leapt off the spinner rack. It also had the best (and best-designed) villains in Marveldom: the insidious Baron Blood, The Destroyer, and the awesome Agent Axis (equal part German, Italian, and Japanese!). In #13, “The Golem Walks Again,” Thomas showed us that venerable Jewish myth in an exciting context, brought to life by Jacob Goldstein, teen survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto.

Okay, Axis, Here We Stomp!

Michael Aushenker (photo at top of page) has kind words for The Invaders.

Above is the Jack Kirby/Frank Springer cover for a Spanish edition of Marvel’s The Invaders #9 (Oct. 1976)—but with The Human Torch repositioned and redrawn (to replace a dropped dialogue balloon), with a different coloring scheme for Baron Blood, and with Sub-Mariner somewhat redrawn and totally re-garbed by a local artist in a variation on the costume John Romita designed in the ’70s. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

When I think of Roy Thomas, I think of The Invaders in the way that I associate Marv Wolfman with Tomb of Dracula. As Tomb was Wolfman’s pet project, for Thomas, Invaders was personal. Invaders, like Tomb, is one of the great (what I call) “second-stringer” books, and in no way is that a putdown. See, in the ’70s, Marvel’s flagship books were The Amazing Spider-Man, The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, etc…. and they were terrific. But the second stringers were much more exciting, because they were funky, flavorful, and unpredictable. Stuff like Marvel Two-in-One, Hero for Hire, Ghost Rider, The Human Fly. Today, when my friends and I look back fondly on Bronze Age Marvel, we kind-of take those A-list books for granted and geek out over stuff like The Invaders.

Prevues Of Coming Attractions Nick Caputo, seen in second photo from top of page, eyes (most of) the never-before-reprinted contents page from A/E, Vol. 1, #10 (1969). It sported Hulk figures by Kane & Kirby (to illustrate Gil’s point about how different the two artists’ approaches were); art from Wally Wood’s “Blunder Woman” parody done circa 1967 for Topps Chewing Gum; a photo of Phil Seuling hosting the ’69 New York Comic Art Convention; art from Joe Kubert’s One Million Years Ago/Tor; the Comics Code seal (representing an article by Code administrator Len Darvin); and a Jim Steranko Captain America panel. Roy T. and one of his two “silent partners,” Marvel production manager, Sol Brodsky oversaw the assembling of the page. (Roy’s other “silent partner” was Stan Lee, but Stan soon withdrew from the project… as did Sol, not long afterward, when he left Marvel to co-found the new Skywald company.)

That issue, helped by a pair of paid ads in Marvel comics, had a print run of 5000, an all-time high for any issue from 1961 to the present. Important footnote: Contrary to Nick’s notes, the historic Gil Kane confab in #10 was conducted entirely by John Benson, not Roy, who merely published it. It’s currently in print in the aforementioned, modestly titled trade paperback Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine. [Art ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc., Joe Kubert, & Topps Chewing Gum, Inc.]

The proof is in the pudding: one of my buddies, Sonambulo cartoonist Raf Navarro, has a suh-weet page of original Robbins art from Invaders #17 framed on his studio wall: the issue in which Adolf Hitler has a conniption insisting that Master Man and Warrior Woman marry to create a new master race.

Thomas and Robbins, baby! Top that, Tarantino!

NICK CAPUTO – TwoMorrows contributor I can’t say I was there at the beginning, but I first learned of Alter Ego when a small ad for it appeared in Marvel comics, circa 1969. It looked interesting, but neither my older brother John, who actually bought most of the comics we read (mainly Marvel’s), or I myself, at nine years old, had the ready cash to mail away for it. It didn’t take very long for me to take an interest in the history of comics, so about a year later I talked my mom into giving me the money for the paperback version of All in Color for a Dime that I saw on a spinner rack of a newsstand. A few years later I got my first look at fanzines, and there was no turning back.

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Manning, Kurt Schaffenburger, and Kirby! Great stuff.

At the end of the 1990s Roy brought Alter Ego back, and it was better than ever. Despite the years working in the business, with all its trials and tribulations, Roy has never lost his enthusiasm for the medium. Every issue has something to offer: articles, interviews, histories of companies, and letters. I’ve been especially honored to contribute to A/E from time to time. The moment I’m most proud of was tracking down Werner Roth’s son Gavin, for an article I wrote about his often neglected father. Gavin’s personal reminisces about his father were touching, and I was sad to hear that Gavin passed away a short time later.

Roy, congratulations on the 50th anniversary of Alter Ego. Jerry Bails began it, and you have continued to provide a forum to celebrate comic books and their creators. It’s quite an accomplishment, and I hope A/E continues under your tenure for many, many years.

JERRY ORDWAY – artist/writer My favorite comic that Roy wrote was The Avengers. I think my first issue was the one with Hercules, issue #42. I liked it well enough at first, but was more enamored of Spider-Man and Daredevil. Anyhow, I kept buying it, and it kept getting better! Roy and penciler John Buscema soon became my favorite team, and The Avengers my favorite comic. I loved the squabbling, and the occasional then-current pop culture references. I was just shy of ten years old in 1967, and reading the exchange between a surprised villain and Hawkeye made me realize the writer had to be a young guy! The villain yells out, “The Avengers!” Hawkeye responds, “You were expecting the Strawberry Alarm Clock?” That’s stuck in my brain for way too many years.

From Here To Infinity Again with The Avengers—this time lauded by Jerry Ordway? Well, they were Roy’s favorite modern-day-set Marvel series to script, after the two main Conan titles and maybe The Invaders—but, like we said earlier, virtually all of RT’s 70+ issues of The Avengers are currently in print both in color Marvel Masterworks volumes and in black-&-white Essentials. So here’s a powerful page of penciled layouts by Jerry from a comic with a cast that numerically rivaled The Avengers—namely, Infinity, Inc. #10 (Jan. 1985)—complete with Roy’s later-added balloon indications. Thanks to JO, whose self-portrait was seen on p. 23. [©2011 DC Comics.]

I don’t recall if the first Alter Ego I purchased was the excellent Gil Kane issue (yes, the one advertised and passed on earlier), or the 1978 one-shot showcasing Bill Everett, bought “brand new” at a Philadelphia con. Both issues featured lengthy interviews conducted by Roy Thomas, already well known for writing so very many enjoyable Marvel stories. I discovered Roy was also a comics historian who obviously loved the medium. It didn’t take me very long to track down most of the earlier issues, through places like the Buyer’s Guide for Comics Fandom (in those pre-eBay days, aside from conventions, that’s where you sought out such things). While I either couldn’t afford or find the earliest issues, I was able to buy inexpensive reprints of the first three issues. Crude as they were, the enthusiasm of pioneer Jerry Bails shone through. After Jerry got the ball rolling, he handed A/E over to Roy, who produced an excellent fanzine. I have a wonderful memory of opening a package I received in the mail of old Alter Egos, looking through those issues for the first time.

My favorite moment was seeing the illustrated letter to Roy from Steve Ditko. It was odd and funny, and spoke of a simple joy of the medium.

And there was so much more—articles on the JSA, the Blackhawks, Captain Marvel, foreign comics. A lively, informative letters section, including personal reminisces from pros such as Gardner Fox, Paul Reinman, and Otto Binder. Sketches and artwork by the likes of Russ

My favorite storyline in The Avengers has to be the Kree-Skrull War that spanned several issues, just for the scope of the story, and the cool way The Avengers took the battle into outer space. It still feels fresh to me, years later. Roy made me care a lot for characters like The Vision and Hawkeye, over his long run. The Kree-Skrull War played off those feelings, with both characters getting good scenes, such as Hawkeye feeling like a failure for preventing the Skrull ship from escaping, and also The Vision losing his cool on some bad guys. Roy gave the Avengers comic a feeling that anything could happen—no one was safe! It was a beautiful concept in a world where writers fed the readers the illusion of change, but real change was rare. The Avengers always had a rotating lineup, but having Hawkeye (Goliath) disappear at the end just jolted me as a kid! Great stuff!

P.C. HAMERLINCK – writer & editor of FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) “There he is!” I excitedly said to myself as I entered the room where, beyond the numerous rows of neatly lined-up chairs, I had recognized the straight-haired, bespectacled, youngat-heart man sitting at a microphone-filled long table with other colleagues that I was about to join for one of those convention panel pow-wows. I found it impossible to curb my anticipation that day when I finally met in person—Mr. Roy Thomas.

Long before working with my A/E editor-in-chief and fellow comic book archaeologist, I recalled absorbing his “Whiz Gang” essay from Xero and the “One Man’s Family” dissertation from the

Something To Marvel At P.C. and Jennifer Hamerlinck on vacation in the Bahamas.

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original incarnation of his seminal A/E ’zine from the 1960s. It was inevitable that Roy’s fan-indoctrinated discourses and outright enthusiasm for comics’ history would often spill over and inspire many spirited stories. He would go on and write for Marvel (including those for my personal favorites, The Avengers, and even that “other” Captain Marvel) and over at DC during the ’80s (on some fun SupermanCaptain Marvel team-ups, and even his own, often misunderstood, dark version of the World’s Mightiest Mortal). Roy was also the indisputable modern champion of scripting super-heroes’ boundless battles of the WWII era—as his use of Timely’s “Big 3” in The Invaders and his profound adoration for the JSA in All-Star Squadron clearly showed.

When I took over editorship of FCA in the mid-’90s, inscribed there in black and white on my mailing list was the name Roy Thomas. With our kindred affection for the Marvels, I asked him to join my “staff,” and he readily accepted. Roy’s column of Fawcett drippings lasted just two FCA issues before he departed to re-boot A/E within Comic Book Artist magazine. And it wasn’t long before A/E was reborn in a magazine of its own once again. FCA merged with A/E with that first issue of Vol. 3, and that’s where it’s been ever since… the perfect forum for Fawcett facts and lore. It’s a joy to regularly collaborate with someone I respect very much.

Rubba-Dub-Dub, Two Men And A Shrub Steve Leialoha (seen in photo above) contemplates text and art from 1969’s Alter Ego, Vol. 1, #10… namely, John Benson’s milestone interview with Gil Kane. By choice, John labored a night or two at the Thomases’ Manhattan digs, with Roy kibitzing over his shoulder, to place each piece of art at exactly the right point in the two-columned narrative, including this panel from Creepy #6 (March 1967), with art by John Severin and script by Archie Goodwin. But hey, Steve—you weren’t the only one who chuckled over Gil’s reference to JS’s “shrubbery concepts”; Roy and Marie Severin (John’s sis) have joked about it for decades. But hey—when all is said and done, John really does have ’em! To read the whole “Dark Rider!” story, pick up a copy of Dark Horse’s Eerie Archives, Volume 2. [Panel ©2011 New Comic Company LLC.]

PAUL GULACY – artist/creator When I think back on the comics in the ’70s, I cannot help but conjure up memories of what seems to be a bygone period in comics when writers and artists stuck it out for the long haul on titles they worked on as a team; there isn’t much of that around anymore. Englehart and Starlin, Claremont and Pérez, McGregor and Russell, Doug Moench and me— and others come to mind. I always felt that when it comes to what makes a comic title successful, the glaring question needs to be asked first and foremost—is this fun? Is this stuff fun? Is it worth my while to invest money and time into?

For me, when it came to Conan the Barbarian with Roy at the writing helm and illustrator Barry Smith winging the pencils, you know the answer is a resounding yes. Let’s face it, you can have Michelangelo drawing the book, but if the script sucks, the title will suck no matter what it is, to put it bluntly. Not so with ol’ Conan, amigos. Consistent class, awesome storylines provided by Roy, and Barry letting it rip. I loved it, one of the best series to this day. Roy held onto the Howard flavor but transcended it with his own zeal and panache because he thoroughly knew the character. It was consistent entertainment with charm all wrapped up in a comic book about a barbarian named Conan.

Oh, did I mention it was also fun?

STEVE LEIALOHA – artist/creator Comics Appreciation 1-A:

Man, Is This Guy About To Get A Headache!

Paul Gulacy (on our left in photo above) and Roy T. at a comics convention a couple of years back—plus an unused cover for a 1990s Topps comic featuring Jack Kirby’s Captain Victory. Roy recalls seeing Paul’s art samples while he was Marvel’s editor-in-chief and having the good taste to give him an instant assignment (or did he publish the art samples?)—which soon led to Paul’s long run with Doug Moench on Master of Kung Fu, and all that’s happened since. Photo by J. David Spurlock. [Art ©2011 Paul Gulacy.]

A is for Alter Ego. Back when I was a young fan, interviews with the guys I most wanted to read about (my favorites of the day: Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, or Gil Kane) were hard to come by. In those pre-Internet days, info about who they were and how they did what they do was in short supply.

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Brief Tributes To Alter Ego And—Ulp!—Its Ebullient Editor

What’s Cooke-ing?

Jon B. Cooke (at top right)—and the two documents which, between them, led to the return of Alter Ego. (Left:) The ad prepared by Jon and TwoMorrows at the turn of 1998 to plug the first issue of Comic Book Artist.

As John Morrow says on p. 96, it was the mention of Roy T. near the bottom that led RT to contact JM, with John forwarding that letter to Jon. (Boy, it’s a good thing JBC dropped the “h” in his first name, or this could really get confusing, huh?) [Batman TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

(Right:) Jon’s 8-page handwritten letter, the beginning of which is seen here, quickly led to the inclusion of Then along came Alter Ego—issue #10, Alter Ego (Vol. 2) as the flip side of CBA. to be specific. Over the years Gil Kane gave many interviews, but this was the me like a nobody, ignoring my handwritten letters. But there were a few first in-depth interview of any comics artist I had ever seen. In fact, in stalwarts who responded with receptive kindness and grace, among them rereading it all these years later, it’s still my favorite. It was like a short Joe Kubert, Dick Giordano, and yep, the Roy Wonder. master class in how comics are done or should be done, even including homework (which for me meant looking up all the artists and comics he (There’s nothing like well-mannered people, lemme tell ya, and I’ll mentioned). Much of it was new to me. It was one of those seminal always be grateful for my reception by these guys.) moments that helped me get started as a professional only a few years Now, you need to understand that I was—and remain—in awe of RT, later. as a writer, as an editor, and as a comic book fan-slash-historian supreme.

Even now, more than 40 years later, while working on a panel of Fables When a title would debut from the House of Ideas in the early ’70s, before that involves depicting dense forest, I still flash back to Gil discussing the book would print letters of comment, I was most excited about “shrubbery concepts.” Then the thoughts turn to Monty Python, which is delving into the requisite text page written by Roy, which always something completely different…. contained hitherto unknown info and personal insight, and often established an overall context, always written in Roy’s chummy, entertaining And then there was Star Wars… who knew, eh? fashion. To me, Roy could capture Stan the Man’s enthusiasm, yet added tons of substance to the usual “Stan’s Soapbox” hyperbole.

Thanks, Roy!

JON B. COOKE – editor of Comic Book Artist, layout artist, etc.

And didn’t RT contribute to that wonderful book All in Color for a Dime? And don’t even get me started on those legendary runs of The Avengers and Conan the Barbarian I treasured!

Me and the Roy Wonder

I was pretty well versed in comics history by the time I was formulating Comic Book Artist magazine, but I need to confess I hadn’t seen an issue of Alter Ego up to that time, though I certainly knew of its reputation as an outstanding fanzine. Dr. Jerry Bails, along with RT and Jim Steranko, was one of my gods of comics history, and I knew that A/E was seminal, important, and vital.

Think 1998. Okay, so here I am, creating a new magazine [Comic Book Artist]—The Jack Kirby Collector for all the “other guys,” as I pitch the concept to TwoMorrows’ publisher John Morrow—and my plan is to initially focus on the funny-books that turned me from a reader into a fan, the comics of the late 1960s and early ’70s. Much as I just had to start off with an examination of the “daring and different” line-up of DC Comics (during that beloved era of the artist-editor), you can bet your mint-condition Avengers collection I was champing at the bit to focus my next issue on the “Second Age of Marvel,” those great books helmed by my fave writer/editor of those days, Mr. Roy Thomas.

Though I had written a few articles in TJKC as Morrow’s “investigative reporter” and served as that fanzine’s associate editor, I was really a nobody when I began to contact the creative talents. And some treated

Somehow, probably through publisher Morrow, I began a correspondence with Roy and, yow, what a back ‘n’ forth that was! I had only started to use the Internet (in fact, the very first browser search I made— “Jack Kirby”—instantly led me to the existence of TJKC!) and Roy wasn’t yet online, so—listen up, kids!—we used facsmile machines, faxes, for yakking to and fro. (Sometimes I’d stress out, as I was using my workplace fax machine, when Roy would transmit his fifth 12-page missive of the day and I had to deflect my boss’s attention from my excessive embezzlement of thermal paper!)

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Who first suggested a revival of Alter Ego? I couldn’t say. I know it’s written somewhere in my many-inches-thick folders of RT/JBC faxes (one devoted to just the Kree-Skrull War alone, right, Roy?), and maybe for the 250th anniversary issue I will dig it out… but suffice it to say, I could not have been prouder to help facilitate the resurrection of the great A/E, as a “flip-book” to the initial five issues of CBA. The inclusion of A/E’s third incarnation, it goes without saying, immediately gave my humble rag a boost, a cache (if you will) that legitimized CBA not only among readers but especially among comic book professionals, who immediately took notice that, after a quarter-century, the great fanzine had been revived!

Sigh. Those were great days. Working with Roy was just wonderful, and he could not have been more enthusiastic and appreciative. I also designed a few of his mags after A/E was spun-off—as well as Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection, if memory serves—and we always had a great relationship.

Y’see, that’s the essence of what makes A/E such an amazing ’zine: at the heart of it all, Roy doesn’t see himself as an egotistical writer or snotty editor or any of that nonsensical baloney. Roy sees himself as a fan, and he has never forgotten (and—har-har—never fails to remind us!) exactly what it was like to pick up that first issue of All-Star Comics as a li’l kid, just like I remember staring slack-jawed at that “Behold! The Vision!” ish of The Avengers back in my day. The wonderment permeates A/E, and his appreciation of the achievements of those writers, artists, and editors of yesteryear is awash in A/E’s pages. Gawd, what an inspiration!

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He could have changed my stuff to sound like his, the way Stan had done with him. That’s what most other editors did. He could have made me give him proposals for what I intended. That’s what most other editors did. He could have kept me “in my place”… but he didn’t. He said, in effect, “Here are the keys to the most fun ride on the planet. Have a great time.” Because he was smart enough and confident enough to know that’s how readers have a great time. Sure, some drivers crashed and burned in that situation, but Roy was willing to risk it for everyone’s sake. No matter how great Stan’s era had been, the Roy Thomas era was not going to be a retread, or an attempt to hold the fort—it was designed from the start to go even higher. And because that was the standard he set in the post-Stan era, it was the standard all his successors have had to live up to.

If Roy had gone a different way, Marvel would have, too.

TED WHITE – author & comics historian I was one of those who were on Jerry Bails’ initial mailing list, and I received my Alter-Ego #1 in the mail back in the spring of 1961. I was all of 23 years old and still something of a fan of my childhood favorite, AllStar Comics, although EC had eclipsed it for me almost ten years earlier. I imagine Jerry got my name from the Lupoffs’ Xero, which I mimeographed and to which I had contributed the second installment of “All in Color For a Dime,” that fanzine’s ongoing series on comic books from our past.

So here’s to hundreds more, my friend and mentor. I love being a footnote in the history of A/E, I love working side by side with you, Roy, and I particularly love the free lifetime subscription to your superb fanzine! You are a class act!

[Jon B. Cooke is also writer and producer of the full-length feature film documentary Will Eisner: Portrait of a Sequential Artist, now available on DVD (www.montillapictures.com).]

STEVE ENGLEHART – writer/creator Once upon a time, Marvel was Stan Lee. Yes, the company had Kirby and Ditko and all the other greats—but Marvel was Stan Lee. Stan had been the editor and chief writer since the 1940s, so his voice was the voice of Marvel, and he had always been gregarious, so his face was the face of Marvel. When Ditko left, it was a shock. When Kirby left, it was a cataclysm. But when Stan decided to leave, it was the end of an era.

In the 30 years of that era, Stan had written pretty much everything— often of necessity, since there had been more down times than up times.

But when Marvel took off in the ’60s, the increasing workload finally became too much for even him, and he had to hire some assistants. Roy was one, Denny O’Neil was another, and there were a few more. Stan was diligent about editing these new writers, making sure they followed his style; those that couldn’t do it were let go. But once the writers proved they could sound like Marvel (i.e., Stan), he let them expand from that and follow their own muses. Over time, Roy’s version of Marvel became the one readers paid special attention to, so Roy became Stan’s good right hand, then his heir apparent, and then, as one era ended and another began, his heir in fact.

Well, the line continued to expand, and more writers were needed, and I and others got our shot. I’ve told this story a million times, but—when Roy gave me my first series, “The Beast,” he said I had to make the book sell, and meet my deadlines, and that was it. If I could do those two things, I could keep going, and if I couldn’t, he’d fire me and find someone who could. It was perfectly reasonable and fair, but consider:

Kang, Kang, Kang Went The Trolley Steve Englehart (in a photo from the 1970s FOOM Magazine published by Marvel)—and the splash page of one of the two Avengers stories which Steve plotted and Roy dialogued: issue #132 (Feb. 1975). You’ll see lots more of Sturdy Steve’s wondrous work in A/E #103, just a few short months from now, as we finally turn our interview spotlight on this intrepid author.

Pencils by Sal Buscema, inks by Joe Staton. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Brief Tributes To Alter Ego And—Ulp!—Its Ebullient Editor

I remember sitting in my Greenwich Village apartment (fourth floor walkup) and scanning the spirit-duplicated pages of A/E #1 with a mixture of interest and disdain. Interest, because I was following the super-hero revival at DC (and elsewhere) and I was a fan of the original super-heroes. Disdain because of the somewhat juvenile gosh-wow-boyoh-boy enthusiasms I found in AE’s pages. (I favored the more adult approach in the Thompsons’ Comic Art.) But I wrote Jerry a letter of comment on that first issue which Jerry told me years later (within a year of his death) was one of the best letters he ever got, very instructive and useful. I’m glad it was; I cannot remember anything I said in it. In any event, I watched with amazement as I received A White Paper On Superman subsequent issues and I watched it spark the rebirth of Ted White (shown circa 1967), juxtaposed comics fandom, stronger than ever before. I’m glad I was with his 1954 one-shot mimeographed there to see it all happen. fanzine The Facts behind Superman, which Only a few years later I met Roy Thomas a week or two after he’d moved to New York City. He joined and began hosting the monthly meetings (First Tuesdays, as I recall) of an unnamed group of comics pros and fans which lasted for some years, and that’s how I got to know and become friends with Roy, who showed us his first ideas for doing Conan and often had Marvel pages he was working on around to share with us.

That was close to half a century ago now, and I look back on those days with nostalgia. They were exciting days, when we were all bursting with creativity and embarking upon many projects. We fed off each others’ energy and enthusiasm, both comrades and competitors, but always friends.

was actually a revision of a 1952 edition.

While Jerry Bails and Roy Thomas were unaware of Ted’s seminal efforts in 1961 when they launched Alter-Ego, both greatly enjoyed Ted’s landmark article on DC comics history, “The Spawn of M.C. Gaines,” which appeared in late 1960 as the second installment of the “All in Color for a Dime” series in the Lupoffs’ fanzine Xero. Jerry was shown the first three issues of Xero by DC editor Julius Schwartz while A/E V1#1 was getting started. Thanks to Ted for the photo— and to Bill Schelly’s masterful 1995 tome The Golden Age of Comic Fandom for the cover likeness. [Superman TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

GENE COLAN – artist/creator A great deal of the 1960s and 1970s was spent collaborating with Stan himself. But at some point, Roy began writing my stories. I loved Roy’s writing. It was always clear to me, character-driven yet full of action. Like all great artists, writers, and performers, you never see the struggle in their work. Roy’s writing was like that. It put me at ease. It informed me clearly of the plot and characters so that I always knew where I was with his stories and knew what to do visually.

Unlike writers who fall in love with their own writing and become verbose and lose the point of what it takes to write well for comics or movies, Roy had none of that. Writers came along that found it imperative to micro-manage every detail of what the artist was to visually interpret from their written word. I think writers like that do themselves,

the artist and the finished product a disservice. It severs the creative process.

But Roy has always had the confidence in himself and in me to let each in his own way do his job. Therefore, I believe the books I turned out with Roy were some of my best.

And on a more personal note, Roy always treated me with respect and kindness. He was also very tolerant of my midnight raids to his home to get my pages in on time which he would take up to the company the next morning. I have not one unpleasant memory about Roy. It’s all been easy and great and that’s because of him. He’s had an enthusiasm and authenticity about him that has never wavered. I’m so grateful I’ve had the opportunity to say something on Roy’s behalf because he deserves all good things—one of the true greats in this very, very unique business of ours. And Roy is always the first on the spot for his colleagues in the industry!

If it hasn’t already been done, a coffee table book retrospective of Roy’s contributions to comics should be!

DICK GIORDANO – editor/artist/creator I don’t recall when or where I met Roy for the first time, but I do remember that I was immediately impressed with his passion for good comics, and that led to a level of respect that continues to this day. Roy and I would meet for lunch on occasion, away from the prying eyes of our respective and extremely competitive companies. I went to several “First Friday” meetings at his apartment in Manhattan and enjoyed the company of some of the best comic talent the industry had to offer in that time.

Gene Makes The Scene At DC, before Gene Colan and Roy T. worked together on Wonder Woman, they produced “A Man Called Mole!” for Batman #340 (Oct. 1981). Roy plotted, and Gerry Conway dialogued, this story that was an undisguised homage to Harvey Kurtzman & Bill Elder’s classic “Mole!” yarn in 1952’s Mad #2. This penciled panel is repro’d from Comics Feature #11 (1981). See Gene’s photo on p. 13. [Batman page ©2011 DC Comics.]

Then some time later, after Jenette Kahn took over at DC, I was stunned and pleasantly surprised to learn that Roy had left Marvel and was to join the writer’s staff at DC! Later, in my second stint at DC, I was assigned to edit at least a part of Roy’s DC output. Again, I was impressed by his passion, attention to detail, and problem-solving abilities with the titles he worked on. No detail was insignificant enough for Roy not to dig in and attend to it. He and I spoke (in those days I could hear on a telephone) more often than I did with any other of our

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creators. He told me of his plans, asked advice when needed, and sought special help on things he wanted to do. He was the near-perfect contributor!

During our lunch meetings earlier, Roy and I had discussed our mutual love for Bram Stoker’s Dracula, and when I left DC during the Carmine Infantino years, Roy offered me the opportunity to illustrate a serialized adaptation of that novel in Marvel’s black-&-white title Dracula Lives! We would stay true to the source material… a move that I heartily endorsed. He was to write and edit.

And so we began work! Our working relationship was a highlight of my career, as Roy left most of the art details to me. We both had identical paperback versions of the novel and, as was quite common at Marvel back in the day, no plot was ever typed out. Roy would tell me what material we were to cover and let me loose. Oh, joy! He would dialogue to my pencils, occasionally adding dialogue to Stoker’s when he saw some detail in my pencils that could be enhanced by the additional dialogue.

Then Dracula Lives! was cancelled with our adaptation less than half finished. Some of you know that, almost 30 years later, Marvel decided the adaptation should be completed and, after settling some major details with Marvel, Roy and I began work on finishing up a major work for both of us. We picked up right where we left off. It’s as if those 30 years evaporated and we were the young Turks again, doing our thing and having fun (and making some money into the bargain)!

After we completed Stoker’s Dracula, Roy and I, both relocated in the South, often met at conventions and discussed other projects that we might do together. None worked out. We are now working on several (top secret, for the moment) projects together that we hope will put us back to work together. I can only hope….

[NOTE: Family, fans, and friends lost the talented Mr. Giordano a few months after I received this e-mailed response. He said he “wanted to do this for Roy,” as he wrote to me in the fall of ’09, but admitted he was having “health problems.” True to his word, he came through. And though fandom has lost one of its most noted editors (his penciling and inking were top-notch, also), we know that Dick, as he insisted I call him in our communications, would be pleased to know some of his last comic-related words would appear in print in his friend’s 100th issue of Alter Ego. —Jerry K. Boyd.]

Dik-Art The above is the name of Dick Giordano’s company for the last decade or so of his life. For A/E V3#9 Dick penciled a prospective cover showcasing Marvel’s Golden Age heroes against DC’s Golden Agers—The Invaders vs. the All-Star Squadron. Because, understandably, the companies prefer that we not mix their separate characters on covers, we couldn’t use the illo as a cover in that form; so the DC stalwarts were replaced on the printed cover by a grouping of retro-1940s Marvel villains. This is the first time the drawing has been printed just as Dick drew it in 2001. It hangs in the Thomases’ gym. See Dick’s photo on p. 17. [Marvel heroes TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; DC heroes TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

STAN LEE – editor/writer/creator Roy was (and still is) the best editor anyone could hope for. He certainly saved my professional life by tackling Marvel’s editor-in-chief job when I assumed other duties—and by doing it beautifully. He was creative, competent, intelligent, literate, and fast. I suppose that’s because he’s also a terrific writer himself. After all, who could be more qualified to edit a script than a guy who could also write it if need be?

Besides his professional qualifications, Roy was just a total joy to work with. He always remained cool if anything went wrong, never had any fits of temperament, always understood what had to be done and then did it quickly and efficiently. Roy has another valuable talent, too. He’s always been great at discovering, training, and utilizing new talent. Many of the editors who eventually followed Roy after he opted to spend his time freelancing were brought to the Bullpen by him, and each was a towering talent in his own right.

If this sounds like it’s written by Roy’s personal publicity man, so be it.

The fact is there’s no way to talk about Roy Thomas’ career and abilities without using superlatives. The guy is strictly a class act, a credit to the comic book field and to the creative arts in general.

Cyber-Stan Stan Lee has become a digital screensaver, courtesy of cartoonist Jim Engel.

And Roy couldn’t think of any two people he’d rather end this piece with than Dick Giordano and Stan the Man, two excellent editors under whom he worked—and whose work he’s admired both as fan and as professional.

[Marvel art ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Excelsior!

And ’Nuff Said—for now, at least. Thanks to all the participants, including Paul Sager and Eric NolenWeathington for contact information… and thanks to you, Roy, for adding immeasurably to comics and to comics history. —Jerry K. Boyd.

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“A Lot Of These Guys Have Great Stories To Tell!”

JIM AMASH Talks About His Pro Career—And About Being Alter Ego’s Star Interviewer Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Bruce MacIntosh

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: For roughly 90% of the life of this volume of Alter Ego, Jim Amash has been a virtually every-issue contributor—and, for nearly as long, one of its two associate editors. In the course of human events, he’s conducted in-depth interviews with everybody from Lee Ames to Les Zakarin. So Ye Editor decided that it was high time Jim himself was interviewed in these pages. A while ago, Bruce MacIntosh sent in a long talk with Jim that had appeared in the pages of CFA-APA, the apa-zine of a group of avid comic art collectors. (“Apa” stands for “amateur press alliance,” a term from science-fiction fandom which refers to a group of fans who print and mail their own smallish fanzines to a sort of “central mailer”—Jerry Bails’ term—who assembles them all into one big package or fanzine and sends them out to members only. And that’s all ye know or need to know about that.)

The interview was, alas, far too long to be printed in its entirety, but we’ve excerpted major parts concerning Jim’s life and training, his interest in comics and their history, the comics conventions he helped put on, his pro artwork, and—because this is, after all, the 100th issue

Sit-In (Above:) Jim & Heidi Amash with artist Joe Sinnott in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, 2009, taken by Joe’s daughter Kathy Kiriny. (Left:) A caricature (or perhaps an almost photographic likeness) of genial Jim drawn by Joe. Jim has filled in for Joe from time to time on the long-running Spider-Man newspaper strip, whose Sunday page Joe regularly inks. [Art ©2011 Joe Sinnott.]

of this volume of A/E—his relationship to this magazine and to the professionals whose lives and careers he has so ably chronicled for the past decade. It will surprise no one who’s followed A/E for any reasonable part of the past decade that they’ll find numerous insights about Golden and Silver Age comics talents in the pages that follow— and see the end of the interview for information as to how to access the entire conversation. You won’t be sorry. —Roy.]

Catching The Comic Book Bug BRUCE D. MacINTOSH: Let’s start at the beginning. Tell me about your background, where you were born…

JIM AMASH: I was born in Altoona, Pennsylvania… the home of the railroads. There were a lot of railroads there. You know the old saying, “across the tracks”? That’s exactly where we lived. The house we lived in was probably built in 1886. I sometimes think one of the reasons I like history is because I kind of grew up in it.

I’ve always loved history. I can still remember what the cover of my first grade history book looked like. And in that book, there were some paintings, some engravings, and etchings of historic events and personalities like Daniel Boone. Stuff like that. That really got me interested in drawing.

The thing that really got me interested in drawing, though, was George Reeves. As a little kid, I’d watch him on a black-&-white set, flying

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through the air, bursting through walls, getting hugs from Lois Lane. I was thinking, “Hey, that could be a good job!” I even had a red cape!

Except my mother used it to clean up dirty dishes. That’s when you know you’re Clark Kent: when your mother uses your cape for a towel.

And there was Adam West, when Batman came on the TV in 1966. I wouldn’t have missed that show for anything in the world! Then my nextdoor neighbor, Billy Fink, God bless him, gave me my first comic books.

Everything kind of happened at that time: George Reeves, Adam West, the history book with the great drawings… and then I started drawing.

BDM: What was your first comic book, do you remember?

AMASH: I was given several, so I can’t really remember the first one. I know I was given the Detective Comics issue with the Joker house, which is one of Carmine Infantino’s favorite covers, and one of mine, too.

Another one of those books I was given was an Action Comics with a Curt Swan cover and a Spider-Man by Steve Ditko. I can remember that the first comic book that I bought with my own money was a Steve Ditko Spider-Man. I had 15¢. That was 12¢ plus one cent for tax, which left me 2¢ for candy. [laughter] You know, you could actually buy penny candy back in those days. What I really wanted to buy was this Nick Cardy Aquaman, the cover with the giant Aquaman. I went back to get it when I got the money. That would have been my first comic book. But in the meantime, they changed the comic books that day, and it wasn’t there anymore. I remember being disappointed, so I bought Steve Ditko’s Spider-Man. So it wasn’t a total loss.

Then, after that, it was the Fantastic Four. My jaw dropped the first time I saw Jack Kirby’s work. I became a Kirby fan for the rest of my life.

BDM: So, you grew up favoring Marvel?

AMASH: I think it was 50/50. My favorite comic book company was wherever Jack Kirby was. I think that’s fair to say, because he was my favorite comics artist. I had other favorites, of course: John Romita, Nick Cardy, Carmine infantino…. But no, I don’t know that I was really a “company” person. I wouldn’t say that.

In the 1970s, Marvel published several Western reprint comics, which I loved, because you got Kirby, you got Dick Ayers, you got John Severin, you got Doug Wildey, and Joe Maneely. But DC, in their letter pages, gave you more background about their reprints. Most of the reprints were handled by E. Nelson Bridwell, who deeply cared about history. So I was able to learn more about history in the DC reprints than in the Marvel reprints. Once I realized that these characters had a past that stretched back many years, it became a primary interest of mine.

BDM: You were a comics historian already.

The Shadow Nose!

Amash rendition of Jonah Hex, drawn for frequent A/E photo-contributor Keif Simon. [Jonah Hex TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Up, Up, And Away!

Jim reports that his early interest in drawing was spurred by seeing George Reeves as Superman on TV. This stylized drawing of the Man of Steel, however—done for A/E transcriber Brian K. Morris—is a considerably more recent vintage, and is influenced by his love of the old Fleischer/Paramount Superman cartoons of the early 1940s. [Superman TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

AMASH: Not at that age! Well, maybe I was. But so was anybody who wanted to know “Who was that Lou Fine guy?” when they reprinted the “Black Condor” and “Ray” stories in a Superman 80-Page Giant. And there was that DC Special with Jack Cole “Plastic Man” reprints, which I read over and over. And the Shazam! comic, which I hate to call that. DC had to call it Shazam! for legal reasons, but to me it was Captain Marvel.

I loved C.C. Beck’s drawing, but the new stories... frankly, the writing stunk. But the backup reprints of the old stuff—I read those before the new story, because they were better-written. Years later, I got to be a friend of C.C. Beck’s, and told him what I just told you. Beck laughed and said, “Well, you’ve got good taste.” [laughter] He hated those stories, too.

And for a while, you got 52 pages for a quarter when you bought a DC comic. In the Jack Kirby books, there was “The Newsboy Legion,” “The Boy Commandos.” How could you not get hooked?

Somewhere along the way, I discovered that Alex Toth drew comic books. I recognized his name from the Fantastic Four cartoon, which I loved as a kid. It was a lot of rotten animation, but it wasn’t Alex’s fault: he just did the storyboards. One day, I saw Alex’s work in whatever book it was—probably a war book—and then I was a Toth fan forever.

I remember seeing the ads for Steranko’s History of Comics, but I knew that I could never afford those books. I didn’t see Steranko’s History until about 1975, when our library finally got them. I would check them out, and on renewal day I’d take them back and check them out again!

The library also had the Les Daniels book [The Comix: An Illustrated History of Comic Strip Art, 1971] and the Seduction of the Innocent book... one of the editions with the addresses of the publishers, which was razored out of most copies. It was very valuable. Sometime in the early ’80s, I went back to see if that book was still there. I guess somebody had either thrown it out or somebody swiped it. I hope someone did steal it.

That would be poetic justice, for someone to steal Wertham’s book! [laughter] He could have restarted his crusade over that!

That library had record albums: the Little Orphan Annie radio shows, Superman, Dick Tracy, and The Shadow. That’s when I learned about old-time radio, and that these characters were in it! From that, I developed a love for old-time radio. I have over 20,000 shows on tape and CD. Maybe that’s why in my interviews I sometimes seem to be a little older than I really am, because I’m so interested in all the stuff that came before me.

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Jim Amash Talks About His Pro Career—And About Being Alter Ego’s Star Interviewer

I went to East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina, then transferred to UNC-Greensboro, where I got my Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in Fine Art.

The Comics Shop & The Conventions Then there was Acme Comics in Greensboro, which is where I still live. I made friends with the guys who were running it, Tom Wimbish and John Butts. It was like, “Hey, man, there’s somebody else who loves comics besides me!” They were older than me by about 6 or 7 years, and knew more about comics than I did. And both of them could draw, I mean, really well. In fact, if either of them had any stick-to-itiveness, they would have both made solid careers in comics or cartooning. Soon I was helping out there, and the next thing I knew, I was working there.

Memories Of his 1989 drawing above, called “Billy and the Gang,” Jim says: “Billy Ray was a dear friend of mine who died; he’s the bearded fellow in the tree. I drew Heidi and myself and A/E contributor Bob Millikin in the piece, too.

Harvey Kurtzman was so taken by this drawing that he requested that I give him the first print struck. I got a call from him when he got it, and he said, ‘I love this piece. Every time I look at it, I see it in a different light. The message you’re sending is messing with my head.’ Harvey framed the print and it hung over his drawing table the rest of his life. I’ve never gotten over that.” [Art ©2011 Jim Amash.]

BDM: You know a lot of comic history that preceded you by 20 years.

AMASH: In 1978, I went to my first comic book convention. The first professional I ever met was Manly Wade Wellman, and I couldn’t stay away from him. I know I asked him stupid questions, because I didn’t know any better. I would have loved to have had that opportunity years later, when I started interviewing pros about their comic book careers.

Wellman was impressive to me, the way he carried himself, like the very proud Southern gentleman that he was. He wasn’t really a gentleman, because he could cuss like a sailor! [laughter] But he had an authority in the way he walked, and the way he talked. He was very impressive to me.

Education BDM: So, how did your parents feel about your comics obsession?

AMASH: I heard, “What do you want to do that for? You can’t make a living at it!” And I said, “Well, these guys are making a living at it!” They’d say, “They live in New York. You gonna go to New York?” “I sure am!” I was an A-student in school, but I didn’t think I was going to be a doctor or a lawyer. Can you imagine: Doctor Amash? Only if I could be a doctor like Moe Howard... or Curly, at least. [laughter] I always knew I was going to be an artist and a writer, and nothing was going to change my mind.

BDM: When you were a kid, did you set out to become a comic artist?

Tom and John Butts decided to put on conventions. They did the first one without my help, though I was the one with the contact information for Murphy Anderson. He became their first guest. The second year, Murphy came back and he got Will Eisner to come. By the summer of 1985, John Butts left, and we decided to do another convention. We decided to get that Jack Kirby fella. Since I was already friends with Jack, I got him to come. By then, I was actively helping to put the shows together as a co-manager. Later that year, we got Alex Toth as our main guest, and I co-chaired that show, too.

By 1989, I was running Acme by myself, and I did the conventions by myself. It became a matter of, “Who am I going to get? Who do I want to see?” Archie Goodwin gave me Harvey Kurtzman’s phone number.

Getting him as a guest took a little doing because he was trying to make up his mind whether he wanted to come. Finally, he says, “Call me this Tuesday.” I didn’t think about it at the time, but I was going to be on my honeymoon. On that Tuesday, I thought, “Oh, my God. I’ve got to call Harvey Kurtzman!” I had to call him, because he had to know he could trust me to keep my word.

I called him, and he wanted to know if we could pay for getting him to the airport, because he didn’t drive. “Yes, we can do that.” So he said, “Well, I’ll talk to [my wife] Adele, and call you back in about an hour.” I said, “Harvey, why don’t you let me call you back, because I’m not at my usual place.” He said, “Where are you?” I said, “I’m on my honeymoon.”

“On your honeymoon?!” I said, “Yeah, I didn’t realize that when you said to call on Tuesday, I would be on my honeymoon, so…” And he stopped me and said, “I don’t have to talk to Adele. Anyone who thinks about Harvey Kurtzman on his honeymoon, I’ve got to come to his show.” And that’s how I got Harvey Kurtzman. [laughter] I got other guests over the three years I did the AcmeCons, like Jim Steranko, Bill Gaines, Gray Morrow. Gray came to a couple of my shows; a true gentleman. When Steranko came to the convention in 1990, he brought a number of his paintings with him. I did three conventions solo.

Then I left Acme in the summer of ’92 to work in the comics business.

A Career In Comics BDM: What happened then?

AMASH: Yes. But around 1972 I became interested in fine arts, when—I think it was on CBS—they played a five-part documentary on the life of Leonardo Da Vinci. When I saw this documentary, showing the scope of this brilliant man, it made me realize that art was more than just comic books. Now, I had a dual interest in the arts: cartooning and fine art.

I decided to concentrate on both when I went to college. If I couldn’t be a cartoonist, I would be a fine artist. Or vice versa. Not knowing—as my father used to say, “What do you want to be an artist for? They work all their lives, they don’t make anything, they die broke, and then if they are any good, their heirs make the millions off their work!” There was some truth to that, though I don’t imagine my work will ever be that valuable.

AMASH: Well, I wanted out. I didn’t get an education to run a comic book shop. I wound up doing fine art and getting in a lot of art shows. I wasn’t making any money, but I was getting in a lot of shows! I even had a few one-man shows. But, you know what fine art is like. And that was while putting my wife through college. She had just graduated in December of ’91. So I was going to hang on until she got a job. She came home on a Tuesday, and said, “I’ve got a job, and I start on Thursday at Nations Bank,” which is now Bank of America. I quit the comics shop the following Monday. The reason I waited that long was because that following Monday I got paid for the week before!

I just wanted to do something else with my life. But I didn’t know what

“A Lot Of These Guys Have Great Stories To Tell”

109

The Acme Of Perfection A halcyon handful of talented titans, in photos taken at Greensboro, North Carolina, AcmeCons hosted in whole or in part by Jim. (Clockwise from above left:) the legendary Alex Toth onstage in 1985… Mad creator Harvey Kurtzman, moderator Jim, and “Sgt.Rock”/”Hawkman” artist Joe Kubert on a 1989 panel… Jack “King” Kirby & DC super-editor Julius Schwartz at an instore signing at Acme Comics… and artist Gray & (wife) Pocho Morrow, Jim, Steve Austin (artist in Neal Adams’ Crusty Bunkers), & Flash Gordon artist Dan Barry at the 1991 AcmeCon. Special thanks to Teresa R. Davidson, who took most of these pics… and to Heidi Amash, who took the one with the Morrows, et al.

I was going to be doing when I quit. So, when I came home, I had my arms full of stuff that was mine from the shop: papers, books, etc. As I was opening the back door to my house, I heard the phone ring. I put the stuff down, answered the phone, and it was Millennium Comics, with an inking job. That’s how long I was out of work.

In 1993, I began working for Marvel , and I worked for them for a while. I worked for DC for some time, for Malibu for about a year and a half. I worked for Dark Horse, Valiant... I worked for darn near everybody!

Unfortunately, I stopped doing fine art, because I could make a living in comics. And I’ve been doing it since. I’ve had down times like anybody else, but I’ve had more up times than down times. I worked for Warner Bros. for five years, and that was kind of neat, to be inking Bugs Bunny, and Daffy and Elmer. I worked for Disney for six years; got to do Aladdin, Toy Story, and Toy Story II, 101 Dalmatians... Pirates of the Caribbean was the last one I did. It was great, especially because I was given good pencils, and I could still bring something to them, because by then I knew how to work in those styles.

When I was breaking into the business, my inks weren’t really good enough to improve anybody but the worst artists’ work. Luckily, I had a lot of people help me. Dan Barry used to give me advice and criticism, Pat Boyette did, Alex Toth did, Steranko, and Jack Kirby… Murphy Anderson, Bob Burden, Archie Goodwin, John Romita… Dick Sprang. By the way, when you look up the word “gentleman” in the dictionary, you see a picture of Dick Sprang.

John Romita: When I was in New York one time, trying to break into the business. I went to his office at Marvel, and he recognized me. He said, “Are you up here for the convention?” I said, “Yes. I’m also here trying to get work. I was hoping to show you my stuff.” He said, “Jim, I only have an hour to get this cover rough done, and I just can’t spare the time.” I said, “Okay. How about if I just leave it? I’ll give you a call later.” He said okay, and I left the portfolio and turned to leave. John said, “Wait a minute! You live in North Carolina, don’t you?” I said yes, and he said, “I’d forgotten that.” With his right hand, he brushed aside the cover rough and said, “You’ve come that far, I’ll give you twenty minutes.” It was twenty minutes he didn’t have… but he did that for me.

John also said to me, “You know why I like helping you? You listen to me. Sometimes I try to help people, and their eyes kind of glaze over because they’re not really paying attention. Or they act like I don’t know what I’m talking about. But you actually take my advice.” I said, “When John Romita’s trying to help me, I’m duty-bound to listen!” I never could understand how someone could go to John Romita for advice, and not pay attention.

I was lucky when I broke in at Marvel, because I worked for an editor [Rob Tokar] who had a lot of his books behind schedule. As soon as he realized he had somebody who was willing to pull all-nighters every single night, he started feeding me all kinds of stuff... all different pencils, all different styles. I had to adapt fast! It was the best thing that ever happened to me, because I got better. And better faster, because I had to do everything differently. I had to think while I was sweating to make production. Rob had seven books, and in one month I had work in six of them.

I’ve had a few down times, but I’ve been working at Archie Comics for 15 years now. On several occasions, I’ve filled in for Joe Sinnott on the Spider-Man Sunday strip, and I’m doing a couple of weeks on the Archie newspaper strip right now, also as a fill-in. I still do Alter Ego, of course.

Interview With An Interviewer BDM: Let’s talk about Alter Ego. How did you land that gig?

AMASH: I started doing interviews when I was in the CFA-APA. Only a few of them got in print. If I had have stayed with the APA for a while... maybe I could have interviewed some of the people who died before I got to them, had I not broken into the comic book business. Something else to think about, isn’t it?

[Re Alter Ego], I had met John Morrow shortly after I had heard there was going to be a Jack Kirby Collector. Of course, I was very interested, because I had known Jack all those years. I had been a house guest of Jack’s. I wrote a couple of things for John Morrow, and when Comic Book Artist got started, I did a few interviews for Jon B. Cooke. I was very interested in Alter Ego and had mentioned it to Roy, whom I had already become friends with—because Roy had moved to South Carolina around ’92 or ’93. I remember in ’93 I went to a convention, and the person putting the convention together knew what a fan I was of Roy’s, so he graciously, thankfully, sat me next to him.

Roy likes to talk, and I like to talk, and we got to be friends immediately. I mentioned writing for A/E to Roy a couple of times, and he said he’d be interested, but nothing really happened because Alter Ego was quarterly at that point. So, I’m at a San Diego convention—I think it was 1999—and Bill Schelly, who was associate editor of Alter Ego then (and

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Jim Amash Talks About His Pro Career—And About Being Alter Ego’s Star Interviewer

still is) said, “How come you haven’t done anything for Roy?” I said, “Well, Roy’s never asked me. I’ve mentioned it to him.” Bill said, “With Roy, you have to call up and say this is what you want to do.” I said, “I didn’t realize that.” “Yeah, Roy’s so busy that these magazines usually have people solicit them more than they solicit people.”

But I didn’t follow up on it until February 2001. I had gotten an Alter Ego, and I thought, “I need to be a part of this!” I called Roy and said, “I’d like to do some interviews.” He asked, “Who do you have in mind?” I said “Two men: Vince Fago and Gill Fox.” I thought they had never been properly interviewed about their life and career. Roy said he’d wanted to interview Vince, but hadn’t gotten around to it yet. So I got the honor.

I did both interviews, and then told Roy I wanted to interview Stan Goldberg next. Stan was the color designer of the Marvel Universe, and he had almost never gotten due credit for it. I interviewed Stan, and he turned me on to a few people. Next thing I know, the ball was rolling.

When I turned in the Stan Goldberg interview, I said that I had ideas for a lot of other people [to interview]. Roy said to me, “You’ve got carte blanche to interview anybody you want.” Roy has never questioned anybody whom I have interviewed, or why I have done this or that. He is the most accommodating person I have ever worked with.

BDM: How much of a hand does Roy take in the editorial direction, or editing of your interviews?

AMASH: When I give him interviews, they’re already edited by me. Roy will proofread them; sometimes he’ll catch little mistakes, thankfully. But he doesn’t rewrite anything, if that’s what you’re asking.

BDM: Has he ever “red-lighted” anything, or had anything to say about the subject of your interview?

AMASH: No, he keeps 99% of what I hand him in every interview. And he’s been very uncritical, which has been amazing to me. My attitude is that, if I can make Roy Thomas happy, I know that I must be doing all right, because Roy’s been an editor and writer so long that it’s in his bones. When a guy like that is so approving of what you do, you’ve got to figure that you’re meeting his standards, because Roy cares and he’s a real professional. What more could you want?

What I got out of these interviews is far more, far better than any money I could have gotten. Let’s not tell Roy, he may cut me back. [laughter] Nah, Roy’s a great guy. He and I have a great relationship: There’s no ego involved. Roy’s never treated me like I’m in a subordinate position. Any time I say, “I work for you,” he immediately says, “No. You work with me.” He treats me like an equal, and with a lot of respect. It means a lot... especially since I grew up as a big fan of his!

There have been times when I’ve left things out of an interview, either for concern of claims of libel, or just good taste. A couple of times, I’ve called Roy and said, “I don’t know if we really want this in there.” We’d talk about it, and then we’d make a decision. Sometimes Roy will say, “You’re right, I think we should take it out.” Sometimes he’d say, “I’d leave it in, it’ll be okay.” I don’t want to be a censor and neither does Roy, but I don’t want to get us into any trouble or hurt anyone’s feelings unnecessarily. On the other hand, you need to be true to the people you’re interviewing. So, it’s a line that you have to straddle sometimes.

But I’ve only had two people ever complain about my interviews in all these years, and they were both complaining on the same subject. And one of those two later told me that he changed his mind, so I think that’s a pretty good record.

BDM: Have you ever had anyone get upset that you published a comment that they made... perhaps that they thought was off-therecord?

AMASH: No. If something’s off-the-record, I keep it off-the-record. I’ll give you one example. I interviewed Alex Kotzky in 1992 or ’93. We were talking about Will Eisner, and Alex said that the work Eisner was doing [then] reminded him of Arthur Miller’s work, if Miller had been doing

Star Wars And Spider-Men (Left:) Jim’s inks over John Nadeau’s pencils on Star Wars: Enemy of the Empire #4 (April 1999), repro’d from a scan of the original art. Thanks to Teresa R. Davidson. [©2011 Lucasfilm, Ltd.] (Above:) Jim has inked a number of Spider-Man Sunday strips for newspapers for King Features and writer Stan Lee over the past half decade or so. The most recent time was for several weeks in 2009, to spell regular inker Joe Sinnott.

On June 7, 2009, Wolverine came to town—amazingly, around the same time his movie starring Hugh Jackman was released. Pencils by Alex Saviuk. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“A Lot Of These Guys Have Great Stories To Tell”

comics. He gave me a reason: “When Eisner’s daughter died, I think that changed him a little bit.” He said that when Eisner started doing comics again it was so different from the stuff he had been doing with The Spirit, that he thought that Eisner’s daughter’s death might have had something to do with it. Particularly in A Contract With God. Alex asked me, “I don’t know how Will would feel about seeing that in print. Would you please not print that?” I said okay, and I kept my word.

When we reprinted that interview in Alter Ego a couple of years ago, I thought about adding that back in.

But I didn’t, because I still felt the need to keep my word. Enough time has passed and Eisner is no longer with us [to be hurt by it], so I think that it’s okay to say it now.

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“Now We Make Like Mandrake!”

Don Heck, in a detail from a 1990 photo taken by his friend Jim Fern (seated in photo)… and Don’s cover art for King Comics’ Mandrake the Magician #1 (1966). The original art sold on eBay in 2010 for nearly $5000. Maybe people are finally starting to appreciate the talent of Dashin’ Donnie Heck. (The quote that heads this caption is from legendary Italian film director Federico Fellini.) [©2010 King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

But, no, if somebody tells me that it’s off-the-record, then it’s off-therecord, because I want people to trust me. There are some stories that I may tell some day. A couple of people have said, “You can tell these stories after I’m dead.” I’ve got a few of those! [laughter] I won’t say who it was, but one person said that and I said, “How about next week?,” which got a good laugh: “I’m not ready to go that soon!”

There’s one sad thing about the interviews, and that’s that so many people I’ve interviewed are dead now. I don’t know the percentages, but I know it’s over 50% now.

BDM: I know that that’s part of the reason why you do it, because you’re trying to preserve history. So, you know going in that these folks aren’t going to be around for too much longer.

AMASH: That’s part of why I do it. There are people who want to know this stuff, but they don’t want to go and do the work, because frankly there’s not much money in it. With Alter Ego, I do get paid, but fanzines can only pay so much. They don’t make big money. Roy would like to make more money! So, we do it for love. We do it to satisfy our own curiosity, too.

It does bother me when somebody has died before I could get their interview into print. Dave Berg died two days after I interviewed him, Chuck Cuidera died a couple of days after I interviewed him. I interviewed one guy who was dying of cancer [Les Zakarin], but he didn’t tell me at the time I interviewed him. When we started to print it, we found out he died the month before. We didn’t know! We would have damn well rushed it into print, had we known. I felt terrible about that. I still feel terrible about it.

One thing I didn’t realize is the effect that these interviews could have on the families of the people I interviewed—how much they mean to them. I interviewed some people where the kids called to thank me for interviewing their father, that sort of thing. I didn’t realize how much it was going to mean to the families of the people I interviewed, because I was thinking of it as history. I wasn’t thinking of it in terms of my personal feelings or anything else. Morris Weiss’ son Jerry called me to tell me how much he enjoyed the articles: “There were things in there about my father that even I didn’t know.” That meant so much to me, that a family member called. You can’t do much better than that.

Most of these people are really salt-of-the-earth people… like Herb Rogoff, Sam Burlockoff, Joe Sinnott, Ernie Schroeder, Emilio Squeglio, Joe

Giella... I could go on and on naming names. I didn’t realize, when I got into this, that I was going to be making friends with these people. I’m in touch with a lot of them to this day. To me, that’s a windfall I treasure.

A lot of these guys have great stories to tell! Whenever I see this snobbery, like, “I don’t really know his work…” Well, if you read this interview, you will know the work. And then you might discover that this guy had known somebody whose work you did know. He might have known someone you did like, and maybe you’ll learn something about them that you didn’t know before. And in the process, you might just discover that you like the work of this guy you hadn’t seen before.

I got to meet Don Heck. Let me tell you something: A lot of people didn’t like Don Heck’s work—but they don’t know a lot about draftsmanship. When I saw Don Heck at this New York show, I didn’t know it was him by sight. I saw what he was drawing, and it was Iron Man. I thought, “Oh, my God, it’s Don Heck!” I saw that beautiful style that I grew up with, coming to life before my very eyes on a sketch pad. What a great feeling that was! I saw the look on Heck’s face while he was drawing: a big smile! He really enjoyed doing this sketch for a fan. The pure joy on his face as he drew was wonderful to see! Thank God I got to talk to him.

I wish that I had been doing interviewing then.

It’s the Vince Fagos and the Bill Fraccios who helped build the comic book companies. The companies weren’t all built by Kirby and Toth, because they couldn’t draw everything. The so-called “little guys” are important, too. Those are the people who made those comics that sit in our collections. The business may have been built on the shoulders of people like Siegel & Shuster, and Simon & Kirby, but it was the other people who were the building blocks and the stepping stones, too. Just because someone didn’t create Superman or Batman doesn’t mean that they’re of lesser value—either as human beings or as creators.

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Jim Amash Talks About His Pro Career—And About Being Alter Ego’s Star Interviewer

If you want to know about something, you talk to everybody. Often I’ve found it’s these so-called “lesser lights” who have the better memories and best stories! And they don’t have agendas, political or personal.

BDM: Well, if you’re interviewing them, you’re the only one who’s ever asked them that story. So, they’re eager to tell it!

AMASH: I interviewed Kim Aamodt, who had never been interviewed before. I found out he was a ghost writer for Simon & Kirby. [He put me in touch with] a friend of his, Walter Geier, who also ghost-wrote for Simon & Kirby, and he was never credited, either. Geier also wrote some “Ghost Rider” stories for Magazine Enterprises. Previously, either Carl Memling or Gardner Fox was always credited with writing [all] his stories. Then, to find out that Geier wrote some Black Magic and Boys’ Ranch stories… well, we didn’t know that! And I had never heard of Walter Geier until Kim Aamodt asked: “Have you interviewed Walter Geier?” “No, who’s that?” Then he told me, and I couldn’t wait to interview him. I called him as soon as I got off the phone with Aamodt.

When Dave Gantz suggested that I interview Bob Deschamps, I said, “Who’s he?” And he told me. I’d never heard of Bob, and it turns out that almost nobody had ever heard of him. He worked at Timely, didn’t work at any other company, and he never signed his name. He worked in the bullpen. Only another bullpenner would have known who he was. Dave Gantz was a bullpenner, and both were members of the Berndt Toast Gang in New York. So they knew him. But the fans didn’t, because there was no way they could have known about him.

I about broke my neck dialing the phone to call Bob Deschamps, I was so excited. This interview was printed in Alter Ego #20. Bob gave me one of my favorite and best interviews. He remembered so many things that

nobody else has remembered. Now, because of Dave’s willingness to talk to me—I was the only person he’d ever given an interview to, and he only did that because of Stan Goldberg—I’ve got to give Stan credit that I got to interview Bob Deschamps. Then Bob turned me on to Lee Ames!

Roy and I can give people proper credit. I’m big in the “credit” department, because we all saw what happened with Jack Kirby and others. You saw what happened with Bob Kane, who went to his grave making sure that Bill Finger didn’t get one single story credit, nor a dime for anything. Bill Finger, at the very least, was the co-creator of Batman, and I think even more of a creator of Batman than Bob Kane was.

BDM: Finger is starting to get some credit now, but it’s a little too little, too late.

AMASH: Not enough to help Bill, who died in poverty nearly 40 years ago... an absolute tragedy. It’s those little battles you have to do any time you get the chance.

The first generation of comics creators is almost completely gone.

Time has run out. We need to be thorough about this. We need to treat history like real historians do: I’ve been plagiarized more than once—you and I have talked about that, and you know how upset that made me. We need to quote our sources accurately, ethically. Comics is one the pure, American art form. One day, someone’s going to come along and do with comic books what Ken Burns did with baseball and jazz. They’re going to look at the people who have done interviews—Jim Steranko, John Benson, Gary Groth, and others—and they’re going to need to trust what was done. So, we need to document their [the interviewers’] work like real historians do.

All these years, comics have been treated like junk, but they’re not junk. It’s the “eye of the beholder” sort of attitude, but we need to take a serious look at our scholarship. We’ll make errors along the way, but let’s not make them intentionally or gratuitously. Some people have done that, and it ticks me off. Too many people let personal agendas stand in the way of honest, accurate work.

Living In The Present BDM: What are you doing now? What’s on the horizon?

AMASH: At this very second, I’m inking a page. Actually, I’m filling in blacks on a page of Sabrina, the Teenage Witch. Currently, I ink Jughead, Sonic Universe, and various digest stories for Archie. I’ve inked a number of lead stories on Archie and Friends, some penciled by the great Stan Goldberg. What a surprise and honor to get to ink Stan, after all these years of knowing him. Of course, Stan is one of the greatest cartoonists and people there is, and he is not appreciated enough, in my opinion. I’ve worked with some terrific cartoonists, from Rex Lindsey to Bob Bolling to Bill Galvan to another childhood favorite and good friend, Joe Staton.

Maybe there have been some ups and downs, but, like Archie Goodwin used to say, “It’s only comic books.”

Jughead Goes Sonic Jim recently inked this splash page (penciled by Rex Lindsey) for the lead story in Archie’s Pal Jughead #204 (Jan. 2011). Repro’d from a scan of the original art, with thanks to Steve Oswald & Teresa R. Davidson. [©2011 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Bruce MacIntosh and his daughter Isabel.

When Bruce MacIntosh is not running his Colorado real estate licensing school, he focuses his didactic energies on the history of comics. His articles have been featured in TwoMorrows’ Back Issue! and www.comicon.com’s The Pulse. You can read the online features—including the entirety of his interview with Jim Amash—on Bruce’s website www.comiczar.com—including his magnum opus “Riddle Me This…,” an exhaustive review of some of DC’s most colorful “B-list” characters.

Amash interview ©2011 Jim Amash & Bruce MacIntosh.

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Michael T.: The Fanzine Years!

by Michael T. Gilbert

I

t’s all Gardner Fox’s fault!

In 1998, my wife Janet discovered that Fox—a comic book writer since the late 1930s—had bequeathed his papers to the University of Oregon library, a stone’s throw from my Eugene studio. Naturally, I had to check it out.

While there, I stumbled on a box of ’60s-era letters, some from fans who later became pros. Roy Thomas, with whom I’d worked back in the ’80s on Pacific Comics’ Elric series, was one of these young scribes. I sent copies of the letters to Roy, figuring he’d enjoy seeing them.

Coincidentally, Roy was about to revive his 1960s fanzine Alter Ego as a part of Jon B. Cooke’s Comic Book Artist. He suggested I write a column on my discovery. One column led to a second, then a third. Now, twelve years later, I find myself with 100 issues of Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt under my belt. (Actually, a few more than 100 columns, if we include the CBA issues, but for neatness’ sake let’s just count the A/E issues.)

First off, I’m incredibly grateful to Roy and publisher John Morrow for granting me this forum, and to the late great Jerry Bails for creating Alter Ego way back in 1961. It’s been a genuine honor to contribute to this award-winning magazine. But with great power comes great responsibility! When I realized we were almost to issue 100, I had a heck of a problem. What to write about?

Then it hit me.

The century mark is traditionally a stopping-place to look back and reflect. In past columns I’ve explored the early lives of cartoonists Will Eisner, Bob Powell, and Wally Wood, as well as many lesser lights. So why not look back at the beginnings of my own comics career and my halfcentury love affair with comics?

While some may accuse me of self-indulgence (Guilty, your honor!), this brief memoir will hopefully be more than that. Like me, many of you fell in love with comics as kids and never stopped. I hope my own fond memories will jog a few of yours!

Ol’ #1!

Michael T.’s first comic, Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #25 (Dec. 1957).

Check out the cool Curt Swan cover! [©2011 DC Comics.]

First Love!

The little scrawl at the bottom right is the earliest drawing in my files, drawn on the back of a 1957 Li’l Abner Civil Defense comic. It was a gift from my Grandma Nurock, the woman most responsible for my lifelong obsession.

A volunteer at New York’s Montifiore Hospital, Gram regularly raided the hospital’s kiddie ward to keep me supplied with comics. The very first was Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #25 (Dec. 1957)! I was born on May 7, 1951, so you do the math!

Super, Man! Panel from Michael’s 2000 graphic novel Mann & Superman! [©2011 DC Comics.]

The cover illustration for “The Day There Was No Jimmy Olsen“ had Lois Lane asking “Who’s Jimmy Olsen?” Oddly enough, I wondered about that, too. Just who was this red-haired pest?

Michael T.: The Fanzine Years!

And what about his super pal? Since I wasn’t big on books, Grandma bribed me to read my first comic—and I was instantly hooked! Superman had X-ray eyes! Bullets bounced off him. Heck, he could even fly! From then on I hounded her for more. More! More! And even MORE!! You created a monster, Gram!

I read that comic to pieces and became a lifelong Superman fan in the process. When I discovered the George Reeves TV show, I’d watch transfixed, a red towel draped behind me like a cape. When I finally got the chance to draw Superman professionally (in my Mann & Superman graphic novel for DC), it was like coming home again!

But why did my eight-year-old self draw Superman with a green face and antennas? I couldn’t recall at first, though the image seemed vaguely familiar. While researching this piece, I dug around in my own comic crypt and came up with the World’s Finest cover seen directly below, from issue #105 (Nov. 1959).

I was eight when I scored the comic below, part of a clandestine trade before class. The evocative Curt Swan cover obviously made a big hit with this budding cartoonist. The red lines I scribbled over the Alien Superman were my interpretation of a cocoon in the story that had trapped Superman. And you thought they were just scribbles!

Your Teacher Did What!?

Oddly enough, another early comic book memory concerns a World’s Finest story in the following issue. Our teacher caught a kid with a comic and confiscated it. Seconds later, I watched with horror as she ripped that beautiful comic in half and tossed it in the wastebasket! Sob! Oh, the

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humanity! The lead story (drawn by Dick Sprang) was titled “The Duplicate Man,” about a crook who could split in two.

Ironic, eh?

But don’t weep too much. I lagged behind after class and, with a wildly pounding heart, scooped both halves out of the trash. A few yards of Scotch tape, and I had a perfectly readable comic for my collection. At a convention in late ’90s I finally met Dick Sprang and asked him to sign my tattered copy. The poor man probably thought I was nuts!

Your Mother Did What!?

By fifth grade I‘d amassed a few hundred comics. That year I also experienced the nightmare of every What, No Comic? collector. A few days A very young Michael T., shortly before catching after receiving a big fat comic fever!

“F” in history, I came home from school to find my entire collection gone. Mom had thrown them away! I was crushed!

My story has a happy ending, though. Months later, while searching a little-used crawlspace, I discovered my comics hidden inside! Luckily, my

Swipe Artist!

Another Curt Swan cover, this one from World’s Finest Comics #105 (Nov. 1959)—and 8-year-old Michael T.’s version (opposite page, bottom right). [©2011 DC Comics.]

Alter Ego: First Blood!

The author scored his first A/E (# 7, Fall 1964) in 1965.

[Marvel Family & Black Adam TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Fantastic One!

The Torah Is Light!

An unpublished 1965 Jack Kirby/Stan Lee cover parody in which Sue runs off with Dr. Doom. Hey, why not? She’d already had a fling with the SubMariner! Michael drew this in 1965 at age 14. [Fantastic Four TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.—but everything else in the drawing is ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert, so there!]

Michael T.’s first published art! This cover was drawn in 1965 for his Hebrew School magazine. [©2011 Michael T. Gilbert.]

pack-rat mother couldn’t bear to throw anything away. I kept quiet, and after my grades improved, she finally relented and gave them back. Talk about a close call!

Fan Art! I’ve drawn comics for as long as I can remember. My father, Sid Gilbert, was a tailor (so I was the worst-dressed kid in class, of course!).

He’d often give me discarded order pads that I’d fill with monsters and super-heroes. Both parents were very encouraging, but I never dreamed my art could get published somewhere, until age 14, when I heard about the wonderful world of fanzines.

I was living in Levittown, New York, at the time, and often got together after school to trade comics with other collectors. In 1965, during one of these meet-ups, a friend brought out a stack of something called “fanzines.” A few of these homemade comic books made it into my collection that day, including Jerry Bails’ Comicollector, The Texas Trio’s Star-Studded Comics, Bill Dubay’s Yancy Street Journal, and of course Alter Ego, a fanzine edited by Roy “The Boy” Thomas, back when he really was a boy! My first was issue #7 (Fall 1964), sporting a dramatic Marvel Family cover by fan-artist Biljo White. Inside was a treasure trove of arcane comic history and long-forgotten heroes.

Seeing these fanzines motivated me to draw a “Fantastic Four” parody in my best Jack Kirby style. But, oddly enough, I never tried to contact Roy or any other ’zine publisher. I was probably afraid my great work of

art would get lost in the mail. Or maybe I didn’t want to spend precious comic book money on stamps. It was just as well. Crayons aren’t the ideal medium for fanzine reproduction!

However, if I didn’t break into the world of fanzines, I came pretty close a few months later. As a good Jewish boy, I was forced to attend Hebrew classes after school three days a week in preparation for my Bar Mitzvah. Frankly, I hated it. I just wanted to go home, watch Outer Limits, and read comics. But there was a small silver lining. The principal noticed my doodling and invited me to draw the cover of a student magazine commemorating our upcoming graduation. The principal instructed me on the intricacies of drawing on mimeo paper (no mistakes, because you can’t erase!). I finished the drawing and was rewarded a few months later with printed copies. Not exactly an Alter Ego cover, mind you, but close enough!

Speaking of fanzines, years later I did get to work briefly with legendary fan-artist Richard “Grass” Green. In 1979, I spotted an ad in The Buyer’s Guide offering some rare fanzines for sale. When I contacted him, we worked out a trade whereby I’d ink a pin-up of his character Xal-Kor the Human Cat,

Smile For the Birdie!

14-year-old Gilbert in 1965 at Long Island’s Wantagh Jewish Center, shortly before graduating from Hebrew School.

Michael T.: The Fanzine Years!

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Both comics got my creative juices bubbling, and I attempted my first comic book story. I experimented with a horror-hero, a super-vampire named “Mr. V.,” decades before my first 1984 “Mr. Monster” story. I also toyed with “The Jester,” a comical crime-fighter inspired by a similarly named 1940s Quality hero, and “The Reflection,” who could glide into mirrors and beat up crooks before escaping through another mirror. I’d sit in my math class, plotting story after story.

Unfortunately, coming up with ideas was easier than actually doing them. I drew three pages of “Mr. V.” before tossing in the towel. And I gave up on “The Reflection” after two. But it was a start!

Bat-Mania!

By 1966 America was going batty for Batman. Columbia’s 1949 Batman serial was playing at my local theatre, hosted by an usher in a baggy Batman costume. By the time I’d watched all 15 chapters, I had a splitting headache, but it was worth it! Later I scored a Signet paperback reprinting some of the Dark Knight’s earliest stories. This darker version was a welcome antidote to the sappy TV show.

Still, when the Adam West Batman movie debuted, I was excited as anyone. It was a movie, so it had to be better than the TV version, right?

Wrong! Regardless, a bunch of Levittown comic fans gathered at Len Wein’s house before the movie. This was the first time I’d met him, but Len’s collection of original art and comics was already legendary.

The Human Cat’s Meeow!

Grass Green’s Xal-Kor The Human Cat, penciled by Green and inked by Gilbert in 1979. [Xal-Kor TM & ©2011 Estate of Grass Green.]

in trade for some ’zines. I remembered Xal as the star of Star-Studded Comics, one of my first fanzines. Naturally, I was happy to oblige. Our collaboration appears above for the first time.

First Blood!

1965 was an exciting year to be a comic fan. Jules Feiffer had just come out with his seminal book on comics’ Golden Age, The Great Comic Book Heroes, reprinting rare early-’40s stories of my favorite superheroes. Ballantine followed up with Tales from the Crypt, Tales of the Incredible, and other paperbacks reprinting classic EC stories. Aside from Mad paperbacks, these were my first exposure to what quickly became my favorite comic company. But that wasn’t all.

The new Batman TV show went super-nova early the next year. In its wake, Tower, ACG, Archie, and other companies quickly rushed out their own super-hero lines, hoping to cash in on the red-hot craze. After years of producing Richie Rich and other kiddie fare, Harvey Comics returned to their super-hero roots with forgettable heroes like Bee-Man, Spy-Man, and Earth-Man. But they redeemed themselves by producing two doublesized comics featuring reprints of Will Eisner’s Spirit and Simon & Kirby’s Cold War super-hero series Fighting American.

I was already an Eisner fan, having seen a handful of “Spirit” stories reprinted in some bootleg IW comics, and one in Feiffer’s book. But this was my first concentrated dose of peak Eisner, and it was heady stuff to this 15-year-old! Add to that Joe Simon & Jack Kirby’s mid-’50s Fighting American—a symphony of pure joyous kinetic energy, rivaling even Jack’s best Marvel art.

Sold!

Michael T. bought the original art for this devilish Bill Everett page in 1966— for $5! It had appeared in Timely/Atlas’ Wild #2 (March 1954). [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Unfinished Symphony!

For his second story attempt, 15-year-old Michael created two new heroes, The Reflection and The Jester. He also drew the Reflection pin-up at right in 1966, before running out of steam. [©2011 Michael T. Gilbert.]

First Blood!

(Left:) Page 2 of Gilbert’s very first comic story, “Mr. V., Creature of the Night!”—and (at far left) the page from Fighting American #1 (Oct. 1966) that inspired it! You can see the remaining two “Mr. V.” pages on our intro page.

[Mr. V. page ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert; Fighting American page ©2011 Joe Simon & Estate of Jack Kirby.]

Michael T.: The Fanzine Years!

Once there, Len showed us some page of “Will o’ the Wisp,” a Spirit-inspired character he’d drawn as a possible Charlton back-up. Back then we were both aspiring cartoonists. Len, a couple of years older, gave me a few welcome pointers. Within a couple of years he’d traded his ink and brushes for a typewriter and become a prolific comic book writer.

Batman was one of many characters he brought to life. I also got a crack at writing and drawing “Batman” decades later for Legends of the Dark Knight #94—another career high point.

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Batmen!

(Clockwise from top left:) Bob Kane’s splash from Batman #1 (Spring 1940). This inspired 15year-old Michael T.’s version, drawn in 1966, and his 1997 update, Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #94. [Batman TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

On a related note, a few months before the Batman TV show premiered, a medical emergency forced Len to sell much of his comics and art. In the aftermath I picked up my first original art pages from his collection for $5 each. These included a 1950s-era Atlas Bill Everett splash page and a Bob Powell interior, both of which I foolishly traded away soon after. Sob! However, I still have a 1954 Bob Powell “Sub-Mariner” page (see p. 117) I bought in Ohio in 1982 for $40. A stamp on the back confirms that it, too, was once part of Len Wein’s collection.

Influences!

I learned about comics from the best. And as a kid, I spent hours in the paperback section of Klein’s Department Store, poring over old Mad stories about “Superduperman” and “Plastic Sam.” Little did I know Kurtzman and crew were secretly teaching me how to be funny. Later, Wally Wood demonstrated the joys of drawing machinery—and women, too! I studied mood and pacing from Ditko and Eisner. Gil Kane and Jack Kirby taught me the basics of anatomy and how to portray raw, physical power. A beautiful Joe Maneely “Black Knight” Fantasy Masterpieces reprint once inspired my own version of a medieval musician. I studied them all and kept practicing.

By the tenth grade both my school paper and literary magazine began publishing my art. Halfway through my junior year I moved to Commack, Long Island, but my cartooning career continued. My new school paper printed my first continuing comic strip, Gilbert at Large—a mercifully short-lived gag series. My work also appeared in the Commack High School literary magazine, Invictus. I was thrilled to learn the magazine’s editor, Mr. Meyer, was a 30something comic book fan, and even happier when he lent me his collection of dozens of ’50s-era horror comics. As we got closer to graduation I prayed he’d forget to take them back, but no such luck!

I had yet to complete my first comic book story, but seeing my art reproduced was a great incentive to continue. I learned about art techniques anywhere I could. An editorial reply in a Green Lantern letters column revealed how inker Sid Greene achieved a “splatter” effect using ink and a toothbrush. I couldn’t wait to try! Later, a

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Strummin’ Away!

Michael’s minstrel drawing (left) was inspired by a Joe Maneely tale (right) first published in Timely/Atlas’ Black Knight #2 (July 1955). Gilbert drew it for Island Trees High School literary magazine, Perceptions 1968, shortly before he moved from Levittown to Commack, Long Island. [Black Knight page ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.; MTG art ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert.]

teacher demonstrated the use of zip-a-tone, sheets of clear plastic with dots on them that some of my favorite cartoonists used.

Great Minds Think Alike!

(Right:) Gilbert’s first continuing strip, Gilbert at Large, appeared in Commack High School’s paper in 1969. The top tier above is a sample—the bottom is a similar gag that appeared a couple of years later in Art Sansom’s Born Loser strip. Note the groovy Nehru shirt in Gilbert’s strip!

[Gilbert at Large ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert; Born Loser ©2011 United Features Syndicate.]

I was continually trying new things. Gene Colan taught me the beauty of “wash,” a technique mixing water and black ink to achieve various shades of grey. At 15, I drew a war scene inspired by one of Gene’s art jobs for Warren’s Blazing Combat magazine. Until then, I’d had no interest in the subject, but he made it look fun.

As a high school senior, I stumbled onto some packs of Craftint paper hidden inside a closet in the art room—samples meant for the students, but never passed out. Craftint (also known as Duotone) was a method of creating shading effects on specially treated paper, but try as I might, I could never get those darn dots or lines to appear. No wonder! I later learned that special Craftint liquids had to be brushed on to make it work.

I played around with sable brushes and mechanical pens, making every rookie mistake possible in the process. Once, when my ridiculously super-fine Koh-I-Noor tip clogged, I took

This Means War! Michael, age 15, was inspired by the Gene Colan “wash” job at left, from Warren’s Blazing Combat #4 (July 1966). Note that Michael’s art (at right) has a smoke mark on the bottom left, from a 1969 house fire that almost incinerated his comic collection! [Blazing Combat page ©2011 J. Michael Catron; MTG art ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert.]

Michael T.: The Fanzine Years!

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The Maze!

Michael T. wrote and drew “The Maze” in 1969 for Commack High’s literary magazine, Invictus. [©2011 Michael T. Gilbert.]

The plot was shamelessly swiped from “I Opened The Door to... Nowhere!,” a Ditko-illustrated story that appeared in Journey into Mystery #61 (Oct. 1960). Scripter unknown. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

the advice of a guy in the hardware department and soaked my expensive pen in solvent overnight—completely melting it. I learned a valuable lesson that day: never get art advice from the hardware guy!

Glanzman. Holy cow! A real comic book artist lived in my town!

At the same time I struggled to improve my writing chops. Art and English were my two best subjects in school, and I tried to develop both skills. My literary style was a clumsy combination of Marvel’s Stan Lee and EC’s Al Feldstein. “Maze,” a poem I wrote in my senior year, was a good example. Its plot about a crook trapped in a house filled with never-ending doors was inspired by a Lee/Ditko spook story I’d loved as a kid. The poem was (let’s be honest!) pretty awful. But I’m still partial to the last lines, where the villain gets his comeuppance:

I was a fan of Sam’s Tarzan, Hercules, and Kona for Charlton and Dell. Gathering my nerve, I called him up and he kindly invited my girlfriend Karen and me to his house. I was plenty nervous, but Sam quickly put us at ease, showing us his work and reminiscing about the comic books he and his brother Lou had done in the ’40s. Before we left, Sam gave us each a page of original Kona artwork and samples of a Kona script. I studied them, fascinated. This rare behind-the-scenes glimpse of the comic book industry was a real learning experience. I was also surprised to discover that Sam’s daughter Bonnie sat behind me in my high school art class. D’oh!

And even ’til this very night, when the moon is full and very bright

College kept me pretty busy, but I found time to draw a page from Sam’s Kona script.

When I called him again to show off, Sam’s soon-to-be-ex-wife answered the phone and informed me he’d moved from the area.

If you listen closely you may hear the sound, Of footsteps stumbling o’er the blackened ground.

A spirit desperately searches for eternal repose, As doors without end… open and close!

I didn’t see him again until the 1999 San Diego Con, when I spotted Sam at a table and introduced myself. Naturally he didn’t remember that 18-year-old kid from thirty years earlier. But I got him up to speed and was delighted to find he was still a friendly cuss. After we chatted a bit, I pulled out some of my Mr. Monster comics. As he looked them over, I explained that I’d followed his example and become a professional comic book artist myself. You’ve never seen a more pained expression.

Splattered!

Sid Greene’s splatter technique in action! From Green Lantern #44 (April 1966). The penciler, of course, was Gil Kane. [©2011 DC Comics.]

I completed the package by illustrating my masterpiece—even adding authentic Sid Greene splatter to seal the deal!

My First Pro! Sam Glanzman was the first professional cartoonist I ever visited. My folks had moved from Levittown to Commack, Long Island, in 1968. A year later I got a job working the 4:30-7:00 AM shift at the Commack Post Office before school. Shortly after graduation I spotted a flat art-sized package from Charlton Comics in the mailroom, addressed to Sam

Later, I talked Sam into drawing a pin-up for one of my Mr. Monster collections. I was thrilled when the postman delivered Sam’s jaw-dropping art a few weeks later. I still have, and treasure, the original. I also treasure the fact that TwoMorrows’ Streetwise collection of some years back contained stories by both Sam and me. Sharing a book with him meant I’d really arrived.

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Twice-Told Kona!

Michael, age 18, drew the page at top left in 1970, using an old Kona script (see left).

He didn’t see the Sam Glanzman’s version (printed above, from Kona #21, March 1967) until years later. [Gilbert art ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert; Kona page & script ©2011 Dell Comics or successors in interest.]

Postscript I’m afraid we’re almost out of space. But before we go, I’d like to thank some of the folks who have made working on Alter Ego such a pleasure.

First a tip of the Mr. Monster cowl to my saintly wife Janet for her invaluable proofreading, editing, and moral support lo these many years.

Thanks, too, to my fellow contributors Bill Schelly, Jim Amash, and P. C. Hamerlinck, as well as layout king Chris Day, who makes us all look good. And to Jerry Bails for creating Alter Ego way back in 1961. And let’s not forget Jon B. Cooke for bringing it back, and publisher John Morrow who keeps the torch burning.

And of course I’m especially grateful to Roy Thomas. His fannish enthusiasm, tireless work ethic, and attention to detail make Alter Ego a true labor of love. You’re great, Roy! And finally, thank you, readers, for your support all these years. We truly couldn’t have done it without you!

Till next time...

Sam Glanzman.

Michael T.: The Fanzine Years!

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They Call Me Mister Monster!

(Left:) Sam Glanzman takes on Mr. Monster.

(Above:) Michael T.’s classic Mr. Monster #1 cover (Jan. 1985).

[Mr. Monster TM & ©2011 Michael T. Gilbert.]

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In Memoriam

Mike Esposito (1927-2010) “A Giant In The Industry”

C

by Frank Lovece

omics inker and artist Mike Esposito, who with longtime collaborator Ross Andru drew Get Lost for their own publishing company, as well as runs of Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Metal Men for DC Comics and The Amazing Spider-Man for Marvel Comics, died Oct. 24, 2010, at age 83.

Born July 14, 1927, in New York City, Esposito graduated from the High School of Music and Art, where Andru (who died in 1993) was a classmate. Following Army service from 1945-47, he studied at the Cartoonists and Illustrators School (now the School of Visual Arts).

Esposito’s first professional work was penciling and inking Western and crime stories for Fox Features Syndicate in 1949. After Fox, he was briefly on staff at Timely Comics, as he told Jim Amash in an interview in Alter Ego #53-54. But he soon found his niche as an inker teamed with penciler Ross Andru, with whom he would collaborate for four decades.

The pair’s two short-lived comics publishing companies produced such comics as Mr. Universe and Get Lost.

The Andru-Esposito team made its greatest mark with war comics and super-heroes for DC, beginning with stories in All-American Men of War #6, Our Army at War #14, and Star Spangled War Stories #13 (all Sept.

1953). In 1958 they segued into Wonder Woman and other DC series, cocreating, with writer/editor Robert Kanigher, the robot heroes Metal Men and the non-super-powered “Suicide Squad.”

In 1965 Esposito began moonlighting for Marvel, starting with his uncredited inking of Jack Kirby’s cover for Fantastic Four Annual #3. He did further Marvel work under pseudonyms such as “Mickey Demeo,” “Mickey Dee,” and “Joe Gaudioso.” His first “Spider-Man” inking was over Larry Lieber on Amazing Spider-Man Annual #4 (1967), and the Andru-

Esposito team drew the first of its many stories of that hero in Marvel Team-Up #1 (March 1972). He also worked for the short-lived publisher Skywald.

Andru & Esposito The Heat Of Life formed Klevart Mike Esposito in 1954—and (below left) a panel Enterprises to from what is reportedly his first published publish their MadTimely/Atlas story, “Heat of Battle,” which he style humor penciled and inked for Men’s Adventures #6 (Feb. magazine Up Your 1951). Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn for the art scan.

Nose and Out Your [Panel ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Ear (1972), which, due to distribution problems, lasted only one or two issues.

When Andru began penciling The Amazing Spider-Man, Esposito joined him with #147 (Aug. 1975); together they drew the great majority of issues through #191 (April 1979). Their last collaboration, fittingly, was a “Spider-Man” story: the graphic novel Spider-Man: Fear Itself (1992).

Esposito’s final Marvel inking appeared in Midnight Sons Unlimited #2 (July 1993). By then, however, he was well-established at Archie Comics, primarily inking stories penciled by Stan Goldberg. His final Archie work was inking four Goldberg stories in Betty #56 (Dec. 1997). “He was a giant in the industry,” says Goldberg. “I’ll miss his phone calls.”

Esposito’s first wife, Mary, died when he was in his forties; his son Mark died in 2007. Surviving are his widow Irene and his daughter Michele. Irene was with him when he died. “Heart failure is what they put down [on the death certificate],” she said, adding poignantly, “It was very peaceful.”

“We were friends for fifty years,” said colleague John Romita. “He had a hard life, but he survived and he always kept a sense of humor.” As “Mickey Demeo,” Esposito inked most of Romita’s early Amazing SpiderMan stories after Steve Ditko’s departure in 1966. Of their generation of comics creators, Romita added: “We’re peeling off, one by one, like jets leaving formation.”

An Andru & Esposito drawing of Wonder Woman graced the Amazon’s stamp in the U.S. Postal Service’s 2006 DC Comics Super Heroes commemorative series. Both Andru and Esposito were inducted into the Will Eisner Comic Book Hall of Fame in 2007.

Frank Lovece is a longtime journalist and author who has written for Entertainment Weekly, The Los Angeles Times, Newsday, Penthouse, TV Guide, and other publications. He was senior editor of the SyFy Channel website from 2001-2004 and wrote for Marvel and Dark Horse Comics in the 1990s. His Epic Comics mini-series Atomic Age won Russ Manning and Eisner Awards for penciler Mike Okamoto and inker Al Williamson, respectively.

The Comic Fandom Archive Presents...

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The 1964 Super Hero Calendar Or, How Did BERNIE BUBNIS, Before He Became Well-Known For Putting On The First New York Comicon In July 1964, Get So Many Top Fan-Artists To Contribute To This Unique Publication?

by Bill Schelly

Introduction

O

ne might suppose that, as author of so many books on the history of comic fandom, I’ve seen all the worthwhile fanzines published in the 1960s. Not to shatter any illusions, but one of the things that keeps me interested is the fact that there are still treasures yet to be discovered and appreciated. As Rod Serling would say: “Case in point: The 1964 Super Hero Calendar!”

Although I had read a bit about it in the pages of Dateline: Comicdom in late 1963, I had never run across a copy nor did I know who had contributed to it. Recent e-mail correspondence with its publisher and editor, Bernie Bubnis—in the course of researching my latest book, Founders of Comic Fandom—brought it to light, and when Bernie generously donated a copy to the Comic Fandom Archive, I had my first chance to peruse its heretofore-unseen wonders—and thus to make it a special feature of the 100th issue of Alter Ego, Vol. 3!

My comments are contained in the captions to the reproductions of each of the calendar’s pages, so let’s instead hear from Bernie himself—about the SHC in particular, via his email answers to a few questions I sent along in the last week of September, 2010.

BILL SCHELLY: The Super Hero Calendar was published at the very end of 1963 and/or the very beginning of 1964. This was before your greatest notoriety as the planner of the first New York comicon in July of ’64, so presumably you were less well-known in fandom. Yet you were able to get contributions from every single top fan-artist. I know how difficult it was to get some of them even to answer a letter, much less contribute something. How were you able to make this happen?

BERNIE BUBNIS: I sent each artist his month [with the month’s calendar] already drawn on the ditto master, included a return stamped envelope, and prayed. I did mention to everyone that Jack Kirby and Russ Manning had already contributed. We all want to stand next to greatness. I think that helped a lot. It hit some of them at a bad time, but they all came through. That made me feel very good.

The Super-Fan And The Spider Bernie Bubnis in the 1960s—and Steve Ditko’s cover for the “commemorative booklet” to celebrate the comics convention that Bernie threw in New York City on July 27, 1964. Ditko did the Spider-Man drawing especially for the publication, which became Bubnis’ final project related to fandom. [Spider-Man TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

pressed down on a few lines. He was a great guy.

BILL: How did you get Jack Kirby to contribute that Cyclops drawing?

BILL: What about Russ Manning?

BERNIE: In those days a fanboy was tolerated, and we could just as easily show up on a pro’s doorstep. That’s what I did. I handed Kirby the master, he whizzed his pencil across, and barely thirty seconds later I was on my way. I asked him for a full signature on it. Later, I added the color and

BERNIE: The Manning illo was long-distance. He was in California. I loved his work, told him so, and asked for his help. I get lucky sometimes.

He put a lot more effort into that Korak piece than Kirby did with Cyclops. No touch-ups were necessary. After the calendar was printed, he

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sent me some original art. I sent five copies to each contributor.

BILL: I see from the indicia that this was a free publication. That’s a little unusual, especially considering it shows the print run as 175 copies.

BERNIE: I did it for the fun of it. I sent free copies to anyone who ordered Comic Heroes Revisited #1 and/or 2, and to anyone else I knew in fandom. I probably didn’t actually print 175 copies; it was more likely around 100. I guess I thought showing a large print run (for the times) would elevate the importance of the thing.

BILL: Your drawing of Steel Sterling looks, um, familiar. Care to comment?

BERNIE: I stole the Steel drawing directly from the cover of an issue of Zip, I think. I liked the elongated legs and boots.

BILL: In your editorial you refer to your “enemies” in fandom. What’s that about?

BERNIE: I remember getting under Jerry Bails’ skin a few times. The first issue of my zine Comic Heroes Revisited featured a humorous (in the eye of the beholder) article about what the first comic convention would be like if it ever happened. In it I mentioned a few fans, and at the top of the list was the good doctor. He wrote me a note advising me to stop using his name. Well, the second issue featured another article about a super-hero I called American Man, with another reference to Jerry. I got a longer letter.

I was/am an idiot. At least two other fans took me to task for this, and I guess in my mind they all became “enemies.” Oddly enough, my first connection with Jerry Bails is that I bought his original spirit duplicator for 25 bucks and used it to print Comic Heroes Revisited #1!

BILL: Do you have a favorite illustration in the calendar?

BERNIE: I think Biljo White did a great job on The Owl. He ignored my October box at the bottom and prepared his own ditto master. He indicated on it where the calendar should go, and he was right. You know, every page represented each artist’s style. You knew who drew them without searching for a name. I really liked that.

BILL: I’m sure it was well received. What kind of reaction did you get?

BERNIE: I got a lot of good response. It was cool. Folks wrote me with suggestions for the next year. By then, I was into the comicon thing.

BILL: You were actively planning that 1964 New York comicon in the early months of that year, so the 1965 calendar was put off to the side, I’m sure. Any particular reason why it never happened?

BERNIE: After the con, I didn’t give a damn any more. Guys told me they were happy I put it on and then [criticized me] in fanzines like Comic Art. We were charging $1.50 for admission but only about twenty people paid. [NOTE: There were about forty fans and dealers in attendance. — Bill.] I was stuck with the difference for the comicon buttons, the hall, and the booklet.

BILL: Sounds like your experience on that convention soured you on fandom.

BERNIE: When it came time to do the [comicon] booklet, I asked Rick [Weingroff] to rip the con apart. Everyone else was doing it! What better place than in a fanzine “celebrating” this bomb? Might as well bury it with my name on it. The con booklet was my finale. Man, it was time to book out of this fandom!

BILL: History has been kinder to you than your fellow fans at the time, I guess. In retrospect, putting on the first sizable gathering of comic fans in New York was quite an achievement, whatever its shortcomings. Putting on that con and doing the 1964 calendar are two achievements for

Two Things On This Page Are Cute As A Button— One Of Them’s A Button!

(Left:) Bernie’s personal button from the 1964 con, which he gave to Bill Schelly last August.

(Right:) Bernie today with his granddaughter Lauren.

which you can be justifiably proud. Thanks, Bernie. Do you have any final thoughts on The Super Hero Calendar?

BERNIE: When I sent you a copy last year, I did so because I felt you might enjoy it. That is my original reason for planning it 47 years ago. I knew I would enjoy it and wanted to share the feeling. I thought it would be cool for everyone to be together, maybe for the last time. I think of it now as a Yearbook—all my “classmates” and their pictures. I couldn’t ask for a better memory all these years later. It seems like a time capsule for those early days of comic fandom. I get some things right!

BILL: Indeed you do!

FOOTNOTE FROM BILL: At this same time I asked Bernie if he had any more of the famous 1964 Comicon button which had been supplied

by Art Tripp. Bernie had only one, and to my astonishment he donated it to the Comic Fandom Archive. Now I can hold that very special item in my hand, which is a genuine thrill. Every time I do, I’ll remember Bernie’s generosity, and his contribution to the Golden Age of comic fandom.

A Message From Bill Schelly To All Readers Of Alter Ego: In 1997, when Roy Thomas, Jon B. Cooke, and John Morrow began plotting the return of Alter Ego in the flip pages of Comic Book Artist, we all hoped the magazine would prove popular enough to break out on its own. I think it’s safe to say that none of us thought that this new incarnation of A/E would still be going strong after reaching the 100-issue mark, yet here we are.

As a fan of the original run of A/E in the 1960s, I feel very lucky to have been a part of the magazine’s revival from the beginning. I’m grateful to Roy for making a place for my “Comic Fandom Archive” feature in so many of its issues, and I’m equally grateful to you, our loyal readers, many of whom have also been aboard from the beginning. Your support not only bespeaks the thirst of dedicated comic book fans for information about the Golden and Silver Ages of Comics, but also for the history of fandom, which has been my bailiwick. Without that depth of interest, the magazine could not have reached #100.

No one knows what the future holds, but I think all of us have realized by now that there’s almost no end to the amount of fascinating material for A/E to investigate and celebrate. The history of comics is a vast tapestry, as is the history of fandom itself, so I’m sure the magazine will exist as long as Roy is at the helm, and as long as his staff of associate and contributing editors continue to help him fill the pages....

The 1964 Super Hero Calendar

JANUARY by Jack Kirby.

FEBRUARY by Raymond Miller.

What better way to start off than with a sketch of Cyclops drawn by the King himself? In the article, Bernie explains that he obtained it by showing up on Kirby’s doorstep and handing him a ditto master. [Cyclops TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Catman and Kitten by Raymond Miller, a page very much like the “character pages” done by the fan-artist. At this time Miller was contributing to G.B. Love’s The Rocket’s Blast. [Catman & Kitten TM & ©2011 the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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MARCH by Bernie Bubnis.

According to the artist, his drawing of MLJ’s Steel Sterling was a “direct swipe” from the pages of Zip Comics. Anybody know which issue? [Steel Sterling TM & ©2011 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

APRIL by Buddy Saunders.

Buddy contributed this portrait of The Spectre, produced around the time he and the rest of fandom’s Texas Trio were working on Star-Studded Comics #3, the last ditto (i.e., spirit duplicator-printed) issue of that influential fanzine. Subsequent issues were printed via the more sophisticated “photo offset” technique. [Spectre TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

The 1964 Super Hero Calendar

MAY by Alan Weiss.

JUNE by Ronn Foss.

Bernie Bubnis was a regular contributor to Ronn’s fanzine Dateline: Comicom, so Foss was well aware of the New York collector and publisher when he received his request for a contribution to the calendar. [Magnus TM & ©2011 Random House, Inc., under license to Comic Media, Inc.]

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Alan was one of the most ubiquitous of amateur artists in early fandom, and in great demand from zine pubbers; this illustration of Prince Namor shows why. A few years later, of course, he made the jump to pro status, working for DC, Marvel, et al.—even drawing a “Sub-Mariner” story or two. [Sub-Mariner TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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JULY by Ken Tesar.

This popular fan-artist, who signed his name “Kente,” contributed art and amateur comic strips to many top fanzines such as Komix Illustrated, Fighting Hero Comics, and StarStudded Comics. [Thor TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

AUGUST by Howard Keltner.

This Blue Beetle piece was similar to covers Howard had done for The Rocket’s Blast before it merged with The Comicollector in April 1964. Keltner was a meticulous craftsman whose love for the heroes of the Golden Age was second to none. [Blue Beetle TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

The 1964 Super Hero Calendar

SEPTEMBER by Bill Ryan & Jim Elliott.

OCTOBER by Biljo White.

The first of two months in the calendar that spotlighted Captain America. This one was a collaboration between two less well-known artists in fandom, whose work would soon appear in Rich Buckler’s fanzine Super Hero. [Captain America TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Bernie’s personal favorite of all the illustrations in the calendar was this nicely textured drawing of the Dell hero The Owl. White, whose signature fanzine Batmania wouldn’t be launched for another six months, may have based this drawing on a panel by Owl originator Frank Thomas. [Owl TM & ©2011 the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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Next Issue: The conclusion of A/E #99’s Rudi Frank interview!

NOVEMBER by “Grass” Green.

The calendar’s second Captain Ameirca illustration was provided by African-American fanartist Richard “Grass” Green of Fort Wayne, Indiana. (Green had taken to adding an “e” to the end of his last name, because he thought it looked better—a practice he soon dropped.)

His work was highly influenced by that of his idol, Jack Kirby. [Captain America TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

DECEMBER by Russ Manning.

January’s illo had been done by Kirby—and this fine drawing of Korak, son of Tarzan,

by Russ Manning, who drew both the Ape-Man and his offspring for Gold Key/Western, provides the other professional “bookend” to the calendar. Russ had begun as a science-fiction fanzine illustrator fifteen years earlier, and he contributed several nice drawings to various comics fanzines, including to Alter Ego #6 in 1964. He was a fan at heart, and very adept at using ditto masters. [Korak TM & ©2011 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

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’m gonna do it! Because this is a double-size issue, I’m gonna cover no less than three (count ’em, three) issues of Alter Ego (#85, 86, & 87) this time, as part of my eternal effort to get caught up in printing readers’ cogent comments. And we’ll be doing it all framed by Shane Foley’s rhapsodic rendering of heroes with which Ye Editor was associated either in A/E or during the 1980s. Taking a deep digital breath, I’ll ID them all in one fell swoop, starting at top left. 1… 2… 3… GO! The Eclipse (A/E ama-hero created by 1963 editor Ronn Foss)… Captain Carrot… Mekanique… Valda… Liberty Belle… Satyricus… The Atom…

Arak… Hawkman… Captain Thunder… Infinity, Inc.’s Wildcat and Dr. Midnight… Flying Fox of The Young All-Stars… Tsunami… Alter Ego… Mr. Bones… Elric of Melniboné… the first Flash… Jonni Thunder as Thunderbolt… The Crimson Avenger… and another Foss creation for A/E, original “maskot” Joy Holiday. (Whew! That really took it out of me— almost as much as it would have if my wife Dann had stuck 70 candles on the cake at the surprise birthday party she threw for me on November 22 last!) [DC heroes TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Eclipse & Joy Holiday TM & ©2011 Estate of Ronn Foss; Captain Thunder & Alter Ego TM & ©2011 Roy & Dann Thomas; Elric TM & ©2011 Michael Moorcock.]

Now, let’s get started—with commentary on A/E #85, beginning with a note from Trina Robbins, erstwhile underground cartoonist, now author, and my longtime friend… the woman who first brought that issue’s Golden Age interviewee Lily Renée to the attention of today’s comics readers: Roy, The latest Alter Ego with the great Lily Renée interview fills in questions that I never asked her. I have to tell you that I’m writing a graphic novel for YA [“Young Adult” readers] for Lerner’s Books, Lily Renée: The True Story of a Teenage Girl Who Escaped the Nazis, to be illustrated by Cynthia Martin, who will do a fabulous job. When it comes out, I hope you’ll mention it in A/E. (Remember that great article you wrote about me telling you how Jim Steranko was really dead and Paul McCartney had been substituted for him?)

Trina Robbins How could I forget it, Trina? I’m not sure Jim cared for it, though, since he’s still very much alive, these four decades after A/E [Vol. 1] #10!

Next, a query from reader Michael Christie: Hi, I really enjoyed the interview with Lily Renée. I have St. John’s Abbott and Costello #6 and have always wondered about the cover, which I think may have been Lily’s work. It’s got a very Bettie Page-ish girl (one of the reasons I bought it), and I’d love to know if the resemblance was intentional.

Michael Christie

We can’t be sure, Michael, but Jim Amash feels that any resemblance is probably purely coincidental.

Jack Oster, next, manages both to ask and perhaps answer his own question re a reference in #85: Roy, Great interview with Lily Renée in A/E #85. I’m wondering if the “George” she mentions (on page 13) could be George Carl Wilhelms. Jerry Bails’ Who’s Who lists him as having worked at Fiction House in the early 1940s, before Lily Renée’s time there; however, there may have been some overlap in 1942.

After serving in the Army, Wilhelms did some work for ACG [the American Comics Group] before moving on to other fields. Here’s a quote from his obituary in the Las Vegas Sun for June 26, 2001: “George Carl Wilhelms, 88, died Monday, June 25, 2001, in Las Vegas. He was born Feb. 23, 1913, in Philadelphia. A resident of Las Vegas for 16 years, he was a retired commercial artist in the advertising industry and a World War II Army veteran serving in the Big Red One and the invasion of Normandy. He is survived by one daughter….”

Jake Oster Jim Amash suspects you’re probably right, Jake. Sorry to hear that Mr. Wilhelms has passed away.

While there was an outpouring of letters re #85’s Renée interview, partly because of the somberly fascinating context of her career (framed by the Nazi takeover of Europe), it turned out to be the first installment of Lee Boyette’s study of the early Centaur Comics Group and related companies that

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Danger Rangers!

Lily Renée’s dynamic cover for Fiction House’s Rangers Comics #14 (Dec. 1943). Thanks to John Selegue. And we hope all of you saw the profile on Lily’s life and career in the issue of Newsweek for July 31, 2010! [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

garnered the longest letters.

Richard Kyle, one of the finest writers among the early comics fans (and already a member of science-fiction fandom), wrote the following mini-essay which we couldn’t resist printing in something resembling entirety:

look forward to, but it was “Amazing-Man” who delivered the goods, one of the few comics super-heroes to take a flyer on going crazy. Until the last page of Everett’s final issue, he was the only “serious” superhero whose costume was an ordinary business suit. The strip must have been more ambitious than Everett ever let on: Amazing-Man/AMan/John Aman/John, a man. And The Great Question, one of John Aman’s teachers and perhaps his greatest enemy. And the connections to Philip Wylie’s Hugo Danner. It was more than pretension. As a kid, you knew there was something going on there, even if you didn’t know what it was, exactly. I’ve always regretted that Everett didn’t stay with John Aman. However, the absence of a costume was probably a circulation killer. Most likely Everett was given the choice of a super-hero costume, or the highway. In any case, his parting last-panel outfit wasn’t very good. Everett never had a gift for costumes, and it seems unlikely that his final getup helped circulation.

Then there was Paul Gustavson’s terrific “Fantom of the Fair” (whose home was the catacombs beneath the New York World’s Fair) and his “Silver Streak” (about a streamline train, not a human costume character); Siegel & Shuster’s “Dr. Mystic”; Basil Wolverton’s great stuff; Carl Burgos’ “Air-Sub DX” and “Iron Skull”; Fred Guardineer’s “Dan Hastings” sciencefiction strip; Tarpé Mills’ “Barry Finn,” an adventure strip with a googleeyed, mute, amphibious supporting character who was created in a laboratory somewhere by someone who shouldn’ta done it; George E. Brenner’s “The Clock” featured not only the first masked hero in comic

Dear Roy, My heart was in the Centaur coverage. God, I loved those books.

When Lee Boyette wonders “how and why they managed to last for so long… while going through so many renovations (and reissues) with so little style, content, or quality,” it actually hurts to read the words. There’s still the ten-year-old in me who wanted “new” with all his being, and the Centaurs had it, forget “style, contents, or quality”—whatever that was.

Other comic books may have had “quality,” but they didn’t have much “new,” which was a deliberate choice on the part of their publishers.

In those days, the whole adult world was an enemy of “new,” and funnybooks were the pornography of the day. Except for the very early “Batman” and “Superman” and “The Spectre,” DC’s comics were Establishment stuff, staid, conservative, carefully overseen by responsible adults who knew what was good for their pre-pubescent readers—and themselves. Not Centaur.

Though I suppose it’s invisible now, there was something sincere and fannish about Centaur, a “let’s put on our own show” quality that spoke to a ten-year-old. In fact, in one issue—of Amazing Mystery, I think it was— they ran a column that reviewed science-fiction fanzines for “boys and girls who publish their own magazines.” Probably the first public announcement that fanzines even existed.

The Dell comics were merely reprints, no matter how good, of precensored Establishment newspaper strips. They couldn’t be new. It was the same with Feature Funnies and the other early Quality books. And whether they were drawn for comic books or not, the rest of the comic book strips weren’t really fresh, either (except for the brilliant “Captain Marvel” and “Plastic Man” a little later on).

But Centaur comics were a different matter. They had an underground comics quality. We were careful they didn’t fall into grown-up hands. When found, they provoked the same adult outrage that would later be enjoyed by the comic book version of Mad….

So, against my adult good sense, here I am, defending those lapses of style, content, and quality that are probably beyond defending. But I still remember….

Bill Everett’s “Skyrocket Steel” and “Dirk the Demon” were strips to

Centaur Of Attraction This ad for an issue of Amazing Mystery Funnies spotlighted Centaur’s unique characters, including the mysterious Fantom of the Fair and Speed Centaur. Thanks to Lee Boyette & Jon R. Evans. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

re:

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books, but also the first one to own his own private torture chamber; Lew Glanz’s “The Shark”; Harry Sahle’s and/or Frank Thomas’ great, floating, flaming eye in “The Eye Sees”; cartoons by Fred Schwab and Jack Cole; and Martin Filchock’s size-changing “Mighty Man.” You didn’t see stuff like that anywhere else.

However, except for Amazing-Man Comics, few of the Centaur titles were longer than 48 pages, and not all of them were in color. DC’s standard was 64 pages in full color. The Centaur titles seemed put together by clueless editors. DC had professionals. Centaur’s distribution was bad. DC owned their own. With the exception of Amazing-Man, Centaur always had weak-to-lousy titles and lousy logos. DC had professional ones. Centaur was not a company you really expected to survive.

Still…

Someone—Jerry DeFuccio, I think—once told me that the founders of The Comics Magazine, William H. Cook an John Mahon, took the “Dr. Mystic” [née “Dr. Occult”] pages with them when they left Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson’s company [National, later DC], in lieu of salaries they had never received. I haven’t heard other reports.

The Amazing Mystery Funnies cover for October 1939, in the upper left hand corner of page 35, was not drawn by Paul Gustavson. It was drawn by Leo Morey, who signed his name in the lower left hand corner.

However, the artist for the Fantoman cover and the panels below is Gustavson, not “uncertain.”

Terrific stuff! I’m eagerly waiting for the next episode.

Richard Kyle Which followed just two issues later. I’m looking forward to seeing Richard at this summer’s San Diego Comic-Con, whose hosts have happily decided to celebrate the 50th anniversary of when comics fandom really got going in 1961 (after a bit of EC- and Mad-related fan activity in the ’50s).

What’s more, if all goes well, Richard and I will be sharing a stage with Bill Schelly (the primary historian of comics fandom), Maggie Thompson (cocreator with her late husband Don of Comic Art, an excellent general comics fanzine that came out around the same time as A/E [Vol. 1] #1), and Richard & Pat Lupoff, whose wonderful science-fiction fanzine Xero had debuted in late 1960 and in several ways had set the table for the emergence of comics fandom. Hope to see you there!

Jim Ludwig, who seeks out many of the Golden Age scans used in A/E, took a somewhat more critical look at the Centaur article in #85, so we asked article author Lee Boyette himself to respond to Jim’s points, in the body of the letter below: Roy— “AMF [Amazing Mystery Funnies] #24 has, on the inside back cover, an ad featuring black-&-white images of covers to Ace Comics, Sure Fire, and Super-Mystery. It is now known that Hardie was one of the ownership in the Ace company.”

Is this how we establish ownership now? Ads? I do know that E.L. Angel, who was part-owner of Centaur at one point, was also part-owner of Ace’s titles, but “Angel” isn’t “Hardie,” and seeing ads in one publisher’s books isn’t proof that they own another publisher’s books. How about showing readers a Statement of Ownership as proof?....

[LEE BOYETTE responds: “There was an interview with Martin Filchock that detailed Hardie’s association with Ace Comics. That information was passed along, but Roy omitted it from the article.” Mea culpa, says Ye Editor… not that I’d have deleted that info on purpose, of course. In having to break up the article into several parts and retype it, it appears a few things fell through the cracks, and I regret any errors.]

“With #2, Amazing Adventure Funnies became Fantoman, featuring [Paul] Gustavson stories starring the mysterious hero, though every issue also contained Cole’s ‘Little Dynamite,’ ‘Air-Sub D-X,’ ‘The Arrow,’ and text illustrations by Everett.”

Home Sweet Igloo Lee Boyette also points out—via his friend Jon R. Evans—that, in A/E #87’s installment of his several-part article on the Centaur Comics Group: rather than any Jack Cole cartoon such as “Eskimos” or “Insurance Ike,” the previously “missing page from the [Greg Theakston] book The Art of Jack Cole” was actually the above “Igloo Iggy” page—signed by Martin Filchock.

This is the first part of a two-page feature that appeared in Amazing-Man Comics #26 (Jan. 1942). Thanks, guys. Along with one more segment of the Centaur piece we still need to find room to print, we’re looking forward to Lee’s next project—a study of so-called “sneaks,” in which comics shop artists slipped their names furtively into features they were forbidden to sign. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.].

I happen to have an incomplete copy of Fantoman #4, but it’s clear that it did not include any of the above three heroes. The text story, “Dr. Darkness,” is by Ray Gill and the illustration is signed “R.” [LEE B. replies that his original text read “in this issue,” not “in every issue.” Ye Editor’s typing finger must’ve been set on “typo” that day!] “[In] #3 [of The Arrow], The Rainbow saves his girlfriend….”

Actually, the dark-haired girl Rainbow saves is not his girlfriend (who is blonde), but an unnamed girl.

[LEE B. says that’s his error: “I misread the relationship with the girl.”]

The “Blue Lady” pages reproduced in Part II of the series (stated to be both from Amazing-Man Comics #26)—but they’re not from the same issue. Her origin (the page on the left) is from Amazing-Man #24, while the other page is from #26. In the main text it is stated that, in her origin, she “imbibes something called Blue Mist, enabling her to grow extremely tall and strong.” But she doesn’t grow taller, only stronger….

[LEE B. says: “The ‘Blue Lady’ material and comments that I wrote were

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[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

mislabeled, out of sequence, and garbled. I submitted no art from Amazing-Man #24. I am responsible for the confusion, not Roy.”] The “Super Ann” that appeared in Hardie’s Chicago Mail Order Comics wasn’t the same character that appeared in the “Mighty Man” stories, nor was the tale drawn by Martin Filchock….

It irks me that the only “evidence” of poor sales and bad distribution are simply comments from a few books that say the “Centaur” books sold poorly. I’m not saying the statements are flatout wrong, but where’s the proof?

Where is that information coming from?

[LEE B. reports: “On the demise of Centaur, what I was attempting to illustrate was that Hardie had no idea why his books were not selling, continuing to use reprint after reprint in a cost-cutting maneuver… and, ‘grabbing at straws,’ he polled the would-be readers, who were not buying his books in the first place.”]

“Ya Ain’t Gonna Shoot Anybody With Dat Rod, Are Ya?” John Benson, hardly a stranger to these pages, writes concerning a letter in the “re:” section of A/E #85: “In reference to Michaël Dewally’s example of Fiction House toning down a 1945 story when they reprinted it in Spring 1952, this is not an isolated phenomenon. For another example, see these splash panels from Authentic Police Cases #6 (Nov. 1948) and Fugitives from Justice #3 (June 1952). Just as with Dewally’s example, the English has been cleaned up, as well as the lady’s costume. I have seen others.

Oh, and in #85’s Frank Bolle interview, in case you want to identify it for later, both uniden“We tend to forget that, although the biggest splashes in the anti-comics campaign came in 1954 (Wertham, Reader’s tified “Vic Cutter” stories are from Digest, etc.), the campaign really started around 1949 and was being waged on a smaller level continuously after that Crown Comics #13. “Vic” in Crown date. Several articles highlighted the “poor grammar” in comics, which is why the dialogue as well as the images #14 is only signed by Bolle, as is the were cleaned up.

“Bart Stewart”; other “Bart “Incidentally, I ran excerpts of these attached pages in my book Confessions, Romances, Secrets, and Temptations and Stewarts” are signed “Starr-Bolle.” I pointed out the irony that [the girl and her word balloon from] the first version of this page ended up in Seduction of would like to have Frank Bolle the Innocent after St. John had reprinted it in a toned-down version.” asked how much of his work he Through your efforts, John, we’ve reprinted those two pre-Comics Code splash pages above, so readers can compare lettered himself. It is interesting that them for themselves. Thanks! [©2011 the respective copyright holders.] the Starr-Bolle strips have every Captain Marvel fascinating, as was the reprinted article from The Wall panel numbered. I wondered if that means Bolle lettered them.

Street Journal on the later lawsuit involving Myron Fass, although I admit James Ludwig I could have done without the continued bashing of his version of the Big Red Cheese. I have always been rather a fan of his alien android with his Thanks for IDing the number of the coverless issue of Crown Comics in ability to “Split!,” probably because as near as I can recall he was the very Ye Editor’s collection, Jim. We'll have to ask Frank Bolle about those matters first Captain Marvel I encountered way back in the ’60s, and despite all you brought up.... the, ahem, “borrowed” names, I still find his adventures well-written and Oh, and Lee Boyette had particularly wanted to acknowledge the help he imaginative in their own way. received from fellow comics historian Hames Ware for his Centaur article, but Hames’ name somehow got left off in the printed version. “With my life’s work, the [online version of] Who’s Who, no longer carrying my name,” writes Hames, “it’s not an exaggeration to say that I truly feel like the Bill Finger of fandom.” Hames has more to say, on A/E #86, a couple of pages down the road.

Hi: Lots of cool stuff in FCA this month. The Rich Buckler interview was great. I was somehow surprised to find out how articulate he is about his artwork and the choices he made with it, especially considering some of the bad things that have been said about him over the years with the accusations of plagiarism and all. Good luck to him with his career as a surrealist painter!

I found the legal stuff on the big battle between Superman and

Re my letter which you published [in #86]: You were interested in my statement that Doctor Who started out as a puppet on the Canadian version of Howdy Doody. I first came across this info in the book TV North: Everything You Wanted to Know about Canadian Television by Peter Kenter, who revealed that starting in 1954 our national network CBC ran their own version of Howdy Doody, licensed from the original creators. While the human hosts were different from Buffalo Bob (including William Shatner as “Ranger Bob” and Robert Goulet as “Trapper Pierre”), the puppets were pretty much the same as on the American show with one exception: a mysterious old scientist called Mr. X who traveled through time and space in his Whatsis Box teaching kids about history, before parental complaints that he was too scary got him booted off the show. Kenter calls Mr. X a “virtual prototype for Doctor Who.” I find it interesting that the Time Lord’s creator, Sydney Newman,

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actually worked for the CBC at this time in an executive position, which would have led to his overseeing the program in question. Is it just a coincidence, or is it a case of someone taking a good idea that failed in one country and trying it in another country with much greater success?

Jeff Taylor We know you’re still researching the Mr. X/Dr. Who connection, Jeff—so let us know what you find out, please!

BULLETIN! We interrupt this fanzine to bring you some good news. In the middle of this very month of March, writer Mike Curtis (of Shanda Press) and artist Joe Staton, whose work has graced both many comic books and Alter Ego, make their debut as the new team supreme of the Dick Tracy newspaper strip syndicated by Tribune Media Service. Congrats! It couldn't happen to two nicer guys! Now stop basking in all that glory and go out there and stop some crime, already!

Now, on to mail and e-missives re A/E #86, beginning with one from Christopher Boyko....

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Happy hunting, Keith! The selfsame thing has happened to Ye Ed, more than once.

Next up is a note from none other than Stan Lee. Actually, it was in A/E #90, not #86, that Ger Apeldoorn theorized that, although only the “Loona the Jungle Girl” parody in Riot #6 (and one or two other stories) had a Lee byline, Stan might actually have scripted quite a few stories for the Timely/Atlas mid-’50s trilogy of Crazy, Wild, and Riot. That, Ger felt, would account for the fact that there are fewer Lee credits on stories published during that period that before or after… and he was most eager to learn if his hypothesis was correct. So was I, so I e-mailed Stan to ask him about it. I’ll admit—given Stan’s infamously poor memory, I didn’t expect him to recall much about that era some 50+ years agone, but I was overjoyed to receive the following reply—and since it is à propos to A/E #86 as much as to #90, Stan’s answer is printed here: Hi, Roy, Regarding your querulous query—I know I wrote lots of stuff for Crazy. Don’t know why I didn’t sign my name. Didn’t write as much for Riot or Wild, but am sure I did write some of those brief but brilliant masterpieces, also—mainly because I loved writing that kinda stuff—and still love it.

Stan Lee

Dear Roy, Really enjoyed Ger Apeldoorn’s “Imitations of Mad” article. Nice to get some detail on comics I mostly don’t have (First Rule of Everything Collecting: Don’t Collect Everything), but, sadly, I now see a few of those issues I must hunt down!

I found a couple of items that need clarification, though. Ger can’t quite understand why in Wild #1’s “The Frozen North” they used Louise Arner Boyd as the basis for “Admiral Boyd.” They didn’t! The person they were parodying was Admiral Richard E. Byrd (1888-1957), famed Arctic and Antarctic explorer. “Byrd,” pronounced by a native Brooklynite, would out “Boid” (or “Boyd”).

Also, in From Here to Insanity #9, Ger compares the art in “Dragnut Presents Frank ’n’ Stein” to that of Chester Gould’s Dick Tracy “topper” strip, The Gravies. That strip ran from 1956-64, and so the comic predates the comic strip and no copying can be claimed.

For a minute, I thought “It Came without a Face” (in Riot #2) was a “mash-up” (hate the word, but there it is) of It Came from Outer Space (1952) and Fiend without a Face, but the latter film was 1958, so not possible (unless Maneely was prescient).

Chris Boyko Yeah, we should’ve mentioned, at least in a caption, that that Riot #2 tale was a parody of the 1952 movie It Came from Outer Space. But apparently, Chris, you weren’t the only person who may have wound up spending extra money after you read the first segment of Ger’s two-part examination of the 1950s imitations of the color Mad comics. Check out Keith Hammond’s letter: Hello, Alter Ego #86 was another one of those issues. Another one of those that, while the topic didn’t interest me, I read it, loved it, and learned a lot! Great lead article about the Mad alternatives!

It’s also another one of those issues that cost me a fortune. Shortly after reading it, I scoured a local comic shop and found a copy of Riot #5 (I highly recommend the “Laddie” story—hilarious). I’ll probably buy more, so this $6.95 issue of Alter Ego will likely cost me hundreds in the long run. (Much like the issue on ACG did—I started collecting those shortly after #61, and still am.) But it’s all good, because discovering new treasures and the geniuses of yesteryear really makes the hobby fun and worth staying in, long after I’ve lost interest in new comics.

Keith Hammond

Gentlemen Prefer Bombs ’Twould seem that the story premise of “Gentlemen Prefer Bonds” in Timely/Atlas’ Crazy #3 (April 1954) had virtually nothing to do with the movie Gentlemen Prefer Blondes which, presumably, it is parodying—but nonetheless, it gave artist Joe Maneely a chance to show how many lines he could artfully put onto a comic book page! Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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have done like Frank with those pencils. Kirby’s pages for Marvel were much more numerous, and the cigar smoke stench was too diluted from the exposure to bother me. Plus, I inked the six dailies in half a day and the Sunday page in the other half.

Now to phone Frank (I don’t have his e-mail address)….

Dick Ayers And wouldn’t we have loved to be flies on the walls in that little nostalgic confab!

Oh, and though we’ve misplaced his actual e-mail—reader Walter Loyd Lilly dropped us a line to suggest that, when Ger mentioned 1950s TV personality Arthur Godfrey, who was used as the model for the King Arthur figure in the Prince Valiant parody in St. John’s Whack #3, we might have added a bit of info about the infamous “Julius LaRosa incident,” which perhaps showed off Godfrey’s “despot” side—since he had first “discovered” singer LaRosa and given him a regular spot on his TV and radio shows— then fired him on the radio in 1953 for having “no humility.” Sorry, Walt— but we don't have the space to even mention that “incident” here! But it’s a great show-biz story, no denying it!

Years before Les Daniels embarked on the writing of a number of major company and hero histories for mainstream publishers in the early ’90s, he wrote a 1971 history of comic books titled Comix which was mentioned in Ger’s introduction to his piece: Dear Roy, Nice to see my old history Comix cited as a partial inspiration for Ger Apeldoorn’s excellent article on the imitators of the original Mad comic book. It’s gratifying to be remembered, if only for remembering someone else. I had chosen the Kurtzman/Wood version of the M-G-M film Julius Caesar for reprinting because it was simultaneously a spoof and an analysis of Mad’s methods, and I find it interesting that young Apeldoorn had instead become fixated on the single page listing the other lampoon comics of the era.

Our Cartoonists Look At… Comic Book Credits One of the rare features in the Timely/Atlas mid-1950s Mad-type mags which does sport a Stan Lee byline is this page from a two-page “Western Movies” feature drawn by Dan DeCarlo for Riot #4 (Feb. 1956), one of the three issues done when the company brought back that title as a color competitor to the newly black-&-white (and 25¢) Mad magazine. As we mentioned back in A/E #86, Stan Lee’s byline did appear on nearly all stories in 1956’s Riot #4-6. Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Thanks, Stan. Ger says you’ve made a poor Dutchman very happy—even if you don’t recall specifically which stories you scripted.

Talk about Timely/Atlas’ 1950s parody mags set another contributor to them thinking and remembering, as well. Here’s an entertaining epistle from Golden/Silver Age artist Dick Ayers: Hi there, Roy! I specially enjoyed A/E #86. I got a happy surprise when I saw my “Young Dr. Baloney!” from Eh! #1 and then read the following pages naming the stories I’d drawn. I enjoyed all those stories. In Eh! I could relax and draw in “my style.” On page 51, there was a splash page that I did that was credited to Fred Ottenheimer, but it is signed by me in the lower left-hand corner. “From Hair to Eh-ternity!” is a favorite of mine.

I also enjoyed the interview with Frank Bolle, who appeared in Vin Sullivan’s [Magazine Enterprises’] Tim Holt and Best of the West from 1949 through 1957. In the interview, Frank told how he refused to do any more inking on an assignment he’d been given. It was Jack Kirby’s penciling and it reeked of cigar smoke. I learned there was something else I shared memories of with Frank—including Kirby’s penciling. When Jack mailed me direct the pencils for Sky Masters dailies and Sundays, they sure did smell out loud with stale cigar smoke, and I would have liked to

I’m also reminded that, as a young kid in the early 1950s, I didn’t know from words like “satire” or “parody,” and in an effort to describe these comic books, I coined the childish term “funny-scary.” Reminded that virtually all the genre covers from Stan Lee and Atlas featured horror spoofs, in retrospect I don’t feel I was such a dolt.

Les Daniels I remember a related personal argument, Les, with the pastor of our local Lutheran church (who also instructed us in junior high Catechism at the parochial school I attended) when he saw a Wally Wood-drawn ad for the EC Fan-Addicts Club circa 1953, in a copy of Mad comics I was carrying on the street. He looked at the picture disdainfully and said, “That’s horror!”

“No,” I responded as politely as I could manage, “that’s humor!” We had to agree to disagree on that one, but it was doubtless another instance in which I disappointed adult expectations of me.

Related to issue #86, oft-contributor John Benson sent us a copy of a Reader’s Digest article from June 1954—that era when the Senate and Dr. Wertham were breathing down the comic book industry’s collective neck— entitled “For the Kiddies to Read,” by T.E. Murphy. John pointed out: At one point, [author Murphy] lists a catalogue of comics featuring cannibalism. This cover is described but not mentioned by name: “Here is a cover showing a monster telephoning for room service and asking that a bellboy be sent up. Not food, he emphasizes, but a boy—he’s hungry.” This could be the reason why Stan Lee changed the headline on Riot from “Horror in the Modern Manner” (Riot #3, June 1954) to “Humor in the Modern Manner” (Riot #3, Aug. 1954); or else horror comics’ bad press in general could have sparked the change.

In adding a whole new section to Ger Apeldoorn’s introductory comments, you also added a goof of gigantic proportions. Tell me it’s just a typo! The historic “Superduperman!” appeared in Mad #4, not Mad #3.

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You have also probably realized by now that you made two significant booboos in your caption for the Terrific Comics “Mr. Creepers” story. First, the title is From Here to Insanity, not From Here to Eternity, an easy error to make when you’re rushed. Second, Eh!/From Here to Insanity was published by Charlton, not by Ajax/Farrell. The Ajax/Farrell titles Madhouse and Bughouse had ceased publication with the Oct. 1954 issues, so it makes sense that an inventory item from those titles would be used in March 1955 in their title Terrific. I’m assuming that the loss of your captions-text in your computer crash is the cause of these errors.

I note in reading the interview with Frank Bolle that he says he worked for Fawcett for two years and picked up scripts and left the art on the guy’s desk and never saw him but once. This corresponds with [Warren] Kremer’s similar experience at Fawcett at about the same time, which he talks about in his interview [soon printed in A/E #89], where he delivered Fawcett jobs and never met the person assigning the work. Bolle thinks the absent writer or editor was Joe Blair, but that doesn’t jibe with the Kremer interview; Kremer couldn’t remember the guy’s name but talks about Blair in another context as though he met him.

John Benson All very interesting, John—but I can’t get over that terrible, unforgivable error I made as editor in conjunction with Ger’s Mad-imitations article. No, not incorrectly placing info on the Ajax/Farrell title Terrific Comics as if that mag had been published instead by Charlton—but for accidentally typo-ing that “Superduperman!” appeared in Mad #3 rather than, as it actually did, in #4! I knew the truth, honest! The flesh was willing, but the typing fingers were weak.

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1971’s moonshinin’ saga This Stuff ’ll Kill Ya!, made by—of all people— early gore pioneer Herschell Gordon Lewis!

Matthew Wandersi The listing I consulted must’ve been incomplete, so thanks for the added info. And if you seek out Jack Couffer’s delightful book Bat Bomb (University of Texas Press, at Austin, 1992), you’ll see what movie star Tim Holt was up to during World War II, in between The Magnificent Ambersons and all those rather enjoyable Saturday matinee Westerns.

At this point, Chris Boyko pops up again momentarily re issue #86, to point out: “I assume others have mentioned that this issue is cover-dated ‘June 2008’? Talk about retro comics….”

Yeah, actually, Chris, we first heard about that monumental error from co-publisher John Morrow himself. On June 2, 2009, he dropped me an email reading: “Our mail house just noticed that the cover of A/E #86 (which just came in today) says ‘June 2008.’ Oops. Maybe Kurtzman is having one last laugh at our expense….” We’re just glad it doesn’t seem to have caused any problems along the lines of the issue of Marvel’s black-&-white Planet of the Apes back in the 1970s which was accidentally given the same cover date as the issue preceding it. Since that meant that wholesalers and retailers

Hames Ware returns for a second time in this issue… this time to make a point or two about #87’s interview with artist Frank Bolle: Dear Roy, Jim Amash’s interview with Frank Bolle in A/E #86-87 was a great two-part read for me, as I have always considered Bolle one of the best renderers of Westerns and females in comics. Back when we were doing the original Who’s Who, it seems to me that Jerry Bails and I were told that neither “Bolle” nor “Starr” was their birth name, so it would sure be interesting to know if they mutually decided to adopt their new names as pen names when they started doing comics or if those changes were unrelated to comics.

One question: Since at several points in the interview Bolle professes a negative reaction to tobacco smoke, are you sure the caricature rendering of what is ID’d in #87 as Bolle and his wife is actually Frank, since the character is smoking?? If not, could it perhaps be Tex Blaisdell, whom the caricature seems better to represent?

The “Grey Comet” on p. 62 of #86 is by William Allison, who ironically was also considered (by John Severin, for instance) as one of the great Western comics artists of the early years of comics.

Hames Ware Thanks for the info, Hames. Wish we had the opportunity to run all unidentified artwork each issue past you and a handful of other knowledgeable fans in advance—but it just isn’t always practical. And Jim agrees with you we may have erred in identifying that couple as Mr. and Mrs. Frank Bolle! But alas, at press time we hadn’t been able to reach the artist to see if the man was indeed Tex Blaisdell or someone else.

Matthew Wandersi corrected a statement Ye Editor made in a caption in A/E #86: Dear Mr. Thomas, I spent part of this holiday weekend spelunking the last few years of Alter Ego—most enjoyable. In the Frank Bolle interview in #86, on p. 69, the caption accompanying the photo of the lovely, talented, and seriously underrated Tim Holt states that his final film was 1957’s The Monster That Challenged the World. But Holt did make one subsequent film:

To Ayers Is Human…

Besides the cover and “Young Dr. Baloney!” in Charlton’s Eh! #1 (Dec. 1953), Dick Ayers also drew a one-page puzzle section… “That’s How T.V. Was Born!!,” which featured a splash-page caricature of prominent sportscaster Bill Stern... and “Frontier Scout!” (a general takeoff on cowboys-vs.-Indians tales rather than on any film or book in particular). Dick definitely showed a certain flair for humor… whether the writers always did or not. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

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Browne also wrote The St. Valentine’s Day Massacre film, an outstanding job that holds up increasingly well, despite not having the aesthetically perfect actor to portray Al Capone. At the last moment they lost him and had to go ahead with Jason Robards—not a fleshy Capone type—who delivered an otherwise fine portrayal, which was admired by Browne, despite any other regrets.

He was an excellent editor. What may have triggered his [intemperate] remark about William B. Ziff [at the latter’s funeral] was his experience as editor of Ziff-Davis’ Amazing Stories and Fantastic Adventures. As I understand it, Browne was hired on to replace Raymond A. Palmer, with a promise to publish a slick magazine version of Amazing in “Time magazine format,” at an advanced word rate. Browne bought a substantial number of stories and made serious plans. Then Ziff-David cancelled the project, supposedly because of the Korean War, and Browne, who had left work in Hollywood to take the Ziff-Davis job, was high and cry—unless he continued with the pulp magazines. He did, and eventually was able to produce upscale digest-size versions of both Amazing and Fantastic. Despite his efforts, the reduced format did not have the newsstand impact of the original plan, and Browne returned to Hollywood, where he would do very well. I suspect, however, that he never forgot or forgave William B. Ziff.

Browne and I talked from time to time over the years. I liked him.

He was an uncommonly gifted man.

Richard Kyle

Holt That Pose!

George Hagenauer sent us a scan of both the “original [art] for Tim Holt #31 and part of the published cover showing that for some reason Tim was originally depicted as I think a Spanish cowboy à la Don Diego in Zorro. What is very interesting about a lot of the Magazine Enterprises covers is that they were drawn about the same size as the comic, about 9" by 10" or so. Have several Durango Kids and Tim Holts like that—don’t know if it was company policy or just something that occurred with Ray Krank as editor. Several artists drew the art I have had, so it is not just because a particular artist liked to draw in that size and was allowed to do so.” Thanks for the info and the scans, George. (He also sent us a copy of a short piece he once wrote for the Comic Buyer’s Guide on the subject.) Hard to figure why Holt was garbed like a charro in the original art—unless artist Frank Bolle confused him with the character of Chito, his sidekick in the Tim Holt Western films. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

took that issue off sale as quickly as it came on sale, effectively giving it a newsstand life of maybe 30 minutes, that mistake cost Marvel lots of potential profits—and the responsible production worker his job!

In the “re:” section of A/E #86, former Ziff-Davis comics editor Herb Rogoff had related a somewhat unflattering anecdote about writer Howard Browne. That bestirred Richard Kyle, who had written concerning #85, to take typewriter to paper yet again: Roy, Howard Browne was a superior writer, and although everything said about him on page 72 of A/E #86 is true, he was also the author of Pork City, a realistic crime novel of ’30s Chicago that would make the career of many writers.

Indeed he was, Richard… and I don’t think Herb Rogoff meant to imply otherwise. Almost everyone has lapses in taste from time to time.

One of Italy’s most dependable exports in the past few years, we’re happy to say, is e-mails from comics historian Alberto Becattini, who often (and always welcomely) sends corrections and updates to our various artist/writer checklists. Case in point this time around: Frank Bolle….

Roy: Additions and Corrections to Frank Bolle Checklist in A/E #87: Print Media (non-comics): juvenile book illustrations, Little Golden Books: Gene Autry and Champion #267 (1956), Lassie and the Lost Explorer #343 (1958), The Lone Ranger and the Talking Pony #310 (1958), Wagon Train #326 (1958); book illustrations: The Case of the Silk King (1986), Choose Your Own Adventure Series (1985-88, 1994-95), The Cobra Connection (1990), Evans of the Army (1964), The Clues Brothers Series (1997), Ghost Train (1991), Hijacked! (1995), Invaders from Within (1995), Scuba, Spear and Snorkel (1971), Terror on the Titanic (1996), Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (1992-93), et al.

Magazine Illustrations: Racket Magazine Syndication: Alexander Gate (d)(S) (a) 1970-71; Annie (d)(S)(lettering) Dec. 1979-June 2000 (p) 1992-2000; Apartment 3-G (d)(S) (a) 1999-2009; Best Seller Showcase: Raise the Titantic! (d)(S) (a) Aug. 15, 1977-Oct. 9, 1977; Children’s Tales (S) (a)(some w) Oct. 17, 1965-Dec. 19, 1971; Debbie Deere (d)(a) May 30, 1966-Nov. 1, 1969; Encyclopedia Brown (d)(S)(a) Dec. 1978-81; Gil Thorp (d)(a) 1996 [9 months], (a) 2001 [2 months], (a) 2005 [2 weeks], (a) 2008; The Heart of Juliet Jones (d)(S) (a & lettering) May 1989-99; On Stage (d)(S) (asst p/bkgd) 1957-61; Prince

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Valiant (S) (asst layout) 1996-2003; Quick Quiz (d)(w)(a) 1965-65; Rip Kirby (d) (asst a) 1970-77; (a & lettering) 1988-94 [3 or 4 strips a week, some full weeks]; lettering 1994-98 (a & lettering) 1998-June 26, 1999; Tarzan of the Apes (S)(a) Oct. 7-14, 1981; Winnie Winkle (d)(S) (a & lettering) 1982-96 COMIC BOOK CREDITS – Mainstream US Publishers: Charlton comics: covers (a) 1974-75 [The Phantom #62, 64, 65]; The Phantom (a) 1975 [#64, 65] Dell Comics (post-1962): The Big Valley (a) 1966 [#1]; Jules Verne’s Mysterious Island (a) 1964; On Stage (p) 1962 [Four Color #1336] King Comics: Flash Gordon (a) 1966 [#2] Western Publishing: Boris Karloff Tales of Mystery (a) 1965-66, 1966, 1969, 1973-72 [#10, 13, 27, 51-54, 56, 58-60, 63, 66-68, 71, 74, 75, 79, 80, 82, 85, 91, 92, 94]; Buck Rogers (a) 1979 [#2]; Condorman (a) 1981-82 [#1-3]; covers (a) 1976-82 [Doctor Solar: Man of the Atom #29, 30 (1982), Ripley’s Believe It or Not #72 (1977), Shroud of Mystery #1 (1982), Walt Disney Showcase #34 (1976)]; Doctor Solar, Man of the Atom (i) 1963 [2nd story in #5], (a) 1964-67, 1981-82 [#619, 29-31]; Flash Gordon (a) 1979, 1981 [#21, 22, 34]; Grimm’s Ghost Stories (a) 1973-79, 1981 [#7-9, 12-17, 19, 22-25, 27, 29, 33, 35, 36, 38, 41-43, 45, 48, 50, 52, 57]; The Lone Ranger (a) 1977; Magnus Robot Fighter (a) 1981-82 (in Doctor Solar #29, 30]; Ripley’s Believe It or Not (a) 1965, 1969, 1973-79 [#1, 13, 15, 16, 18, 21, 26, 36, 40-44, 49-58, 60-79, 82, 85, 86, 90, 94]; Twilight Zone (a) 1965-66, 1969, 1971, 1973-79 [#11, 13, 16, 31, 36, 38, 49-52, 57-59, 63, 68, 70, 74, 75, 77, 78, 80, 83-85, 87-88, 90]; UFO & Outer Space (a) 1980; UFO Flying Saucers (a) 1972-77 [#4-10] One quick note about Mark Evanier’s appreciation of the late Jack Kamen in #87: Mark writes that Kamen, “upon his discharge… began picking up work for comic books, primarily for Fiction House.” Whereas it is true that Kamen drew several stories which were published by Fiction House, I think it should be underlined that he was never on staff at FH. All the work Kamen did for FH and other publishers from 1946-52 was done at his drawing table at the Iger Studio.

Alberto Becattini Rather than try to edit out the parts of the above that were repeated from the Who’s Who-derived checklist, Alberto, we preferred to print your note almost in its entirety. Keep ’em coming, anytime you feel they’re needed!

Ger Apeldoorn, who wrote the long study of the 1950s color Mad imitations that began in A/E #86 (to be completed in #91), has this to say: Roy— Many thanks! I got ten copies of #86 and proudly showed them to my children, who didn’t know their father was internationally famous.

The reactions have been great, as well. I like Thomas Inge’s work, so to get a reaction from him was great.

Ger Apeldoorn

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The following is the message that Ger refers to: Dear Ger Apeldoorn: I have been reading your article on the Mad imitators in the June issue with great interest. It is a fine piece of research and of considerable value to those of us doing work on comics history. I look forward to the second installment in a future issue.

Thomas Inge Dr. M. Thomas Inge is Blackwell Professor of Humanities at Randolph-Macon College in Ashland, Virginia, and is noted for writing, editing, and overseeing numerous works on the history of comic strips and comic books. He was seeing to the publishing of serious works of comics history years before the rest of us wandered into that area… and he’s always given us a high mark to strive for.

At last, we come to communiqués on A/E #87. Truth to tell, we received fewer e-mails and letters than usual on that one—perhaps because the lead subject was the British 1950s-60s hero Marvelman, and few Americans had anything informative to add to Derek Wilson’s study of the character and to Roger Dicken’s interview with creator Mick Anglo. The issue seems to have been appreciated, none the less… and, if it hasn’t been already, it seems that Derek’s article on Marvelman will be reprinted by Marvel Comics in a hardcover collection, now that Marvel has obtained the rights to the character (and to his 1980s reincarnation Miracleman, as restructured by Alan Moore and several artists).

But here are some comments on that and other aspects of issue #87 by Jeff Taylor, from whom we’ve previously heard in this letters section: Hi Roy— I’m a big Marvelman fan, so I was more than happy to see a myriad of articles on Micky Moran’s other self. Most appreciated (along with the fantastic selection of artwork) was the index of his many appearances, as well as the interview with his creator, Mick Anglo. It was nice to see all the variations he did on the same theme, but I think I should tell you that you missed one: Anglo had done a character for the Spanish market called Superhombre in which, whenever dark-haired young John Chapman, teenage assistant to the blustering and blundering Inspector Stewart, touched his bronze “Sun Disc” medallion, he transformed into the title adult cape- and skullcap-clad ’60s super-hero Captain Miracle, and then again in English as…

Miracle Man (!).

The second half of the Frank Bolle interview was quite interesting, too, although on p. 54 the “White Mountains” art reprinted from Boy’s Life magazine was actually not Bolle’s sequel to The War of the Worlds but his adaptation of John

No Flash In The Pan (Above left:) Frank Bolle at a comics convention, circa 2005—and a sketch he drew of Flash Gordon, whose Western Publishing comic book he drew circa 1979 & 1981. Thanks to Michaël Dewally and George Hagenauer, respectively. [Flash Gordon TM & ©2011 King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

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Christopher’s trilogy The Tripods (I wonder where he got the idea from?), a series of children’s books so popular back when I was a teenager in the ’70s that the BBC actually did a big-budget adaptation of it in the hopes that its success would finally give them an excuse to get rid of that silly Dr. Who show.

The stuff on ’50s procomics psychologist Dr. Lauretta Bender was quite fascinating, although I wonder if future installments will be quite so positive in their portrayal of her. I mean, according to Les Daniels’ Wonder Woman: The Complete History, when DC had then-editorial assistant Dorothy Roubicek consult her about their concerns with Dr. Marston’s ongoing obsession with bondage in the amazing Amazon’s comic, Dr. Bender said that in her professional opinion that was not worth worrying about and would have no negative effect on the children reading it.

No, what worried her was the phallic symbolism of flags on boats and how Nazi submarines represented threatening father figures and how the writers didn’t realize what those meant to the kids reading the strip.

Finally, I’m afraid I have one major criticism with #87. I don’t know how much editorial sway you have in the FCA section in the back of the book, but in the last paragraph of the article “When One Door Closes…,” on page 90, The Marvelman Family is referred to as the “quaint British predecessors” of The Marvel Family. They were not the “predecessors’; they were, of course, the “successors.” Man, I can’t tell you how much that irritates me, like all those people out there who use “ancestor” and “descendant” interchangeably! I mean, the clue for getting it right is right there in the first half of the word!

Oh, dear me… take a deep breath there, Jeff… I’m sorry, but my mother always wanted me to be an English teacher, and when I see stuff like that, it drives me crazy (admittedly a short trip).

Jeff Taylor I’m afraid that mistake slipped by both P.C. Hamerlinck and myself, Jeff—although both of us know the difference. Once in a while, you just use the opposite word from the one you meant to use. Even Micky Moran probably forgot and yelled “Shazam!” once or twice. (Or maybe “Flame on!”)

Actually, one other note about Marvelman’s godfather, Mick Anglo, was sent to us on July 9, 2009—very soon after A/E #87 hit the mails and the world’s comics shops—from none other than my old pal Roger Dicken, who’d interviewed Mick for that issue: Hi Roy, Had a call today from Mick Anglo—this is hilarious—he would like six more copies. I think he really loves it! He’s obviously already given some away, and he wants to give three copies to his son and nephews, but with his two brothers and other individuals he’s going to need these other six. I’m very happy that what was done was appreciated by the old rascal.

He also told me today that he had two scriptwriters while he was at Hampstead Road—by the name of Botting and Hart! Yet he insisted to me when he was doing the interview that he hadn’t used anyone….

Roger Dicken Clearly, Roger, you started Mick’s memory juices boiling, so that he later

A Mighty Marvel Miracle (Left:) A vintage drawing of Marvelman (that means done between 1953 and 1963) done by artist Garry Leach. Thanks to Derek Wilson. [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Above:) The splash of a Mick Anglo-produced “Miracle Man” story. See Jeff Taylor’s letter, on the preceding page, for more of the story behind this one. Artist unknown. This tale was reprinted in AC Comics’ Men of Mystery #36 in 2002… but it’s still available, as is most of AC’s product. See their ad on p. 148. [©2011 AC Comics.]

recalled an item or two he hadn’t remembered when you interviewed him.

We’re just happy for the added information.

Since the above, Roger reported that Mick Anglo was happy that the folks to whom he’d sold “Marvelman” rights had made a publishing arrangement with Marvel. Sadly, however, Roger informed us more recently that Mick, who is 94, has had to be moved to a nursing home. While it’s harder now for Roger to stay in contact with the artist/entrepreneur, our correspondent in North Wales, UK, is still in touch with Mick’s son.

And that winds up our triple-threat letters section. Next time we’ll cut back to covering a mere two issues. Meanwhile, send all snail mail and e-phemera to: Roy Thomas e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135 A reminder: For advance news and other discussion re Alter Ego, as well as other comics-related matters, check out the Alter Ego chat list at groups.yahoo.com/group/alter-ego fans/—or simply contact co-weboverseer Chet Cox at mormonyoyoman@gmail.com and he'll lead you through it. “Alter-Ego-Fans” is where the Golden and Silver Ages still live!

Be here in 60 days when Alter Ego goes—After The Fox!

Art by Mark Lewis (with respects to Kirby, Ditko, and Beck) Billy Batson TM & ©2011 DC Comics.

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When he learned Swayze was being interviewed, former chief [Captain Marvel] artist C.C. Beck commented, “Swayze is a remarkable person, a fine Southern Gentleman, a great, great, artist, and a beautiful guitarist, pianist and violinist. In addition, he has a beautiful wife and family, a fine Southern mansion, and a marvelous sense of humor. He’s an outrageous punster. Last time I saw him he was working as a gypsy fiddler in a tea room and loving every minute.”

By [Art & logo ©2011 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2011 DC Comics]

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and stories for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been a vital part of FCA since his first column appeared in FCA #54 (1996). This time around, we reprint, for the first time in the pages of Alter Ego, Marc’s interview from FCA #11 (Nov. 1978), conducted by Matt Lage and FCA founder Bernie McCarty … and including additions to the initial interview which were later published in Bill Harper’s FCA & ME, Too! #5 (FCA #41), Spring 1988. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

Former Fawcett editor Rod Reed, in an interview [FCA #5, Oct. ’74], gave Swayze just recognition for creating the pictorial concept of Mary Marvel. Reed noted, “Although Jack Binder is acclaimed for his work on Mary Marvel, Marc Swayze did the first portraits. I have before me the number one issue of her very own magazine, and her garb is amazingly mod with short skirt and boots to the knees. Swayze, of course, wanted to do the whole Mary series himself and it was my distasteful job to convince him that he couldn’t be spared from the Captain Marvel team.”

FCA: When did you decide to study art?

SWAYZE: When I got my degree [from Louisiana Tech] I went back to work at my uncle’s dairy farm delivering milk. I got an offer for a job through one of the faculty members, whose cousin, Russell Keaton, was doing Flyin’ Jenny. It was an important contact … and I look at it as a valuable apprenticeship that I was fortunate to get, as Russell was a firstrate comic strip artist and gentleman as well. I had left home to work with Russell and when I decided to move on up to something else I sent applications and got a reply for an interview with Fawcett as well as some others.

M

arcus D. Swayze is one of those special, multi-talented guys who make a lasting impression on everyone they meet. Artist, writer, musician, athlete … above all, Marc is charming and gracious, possessing that rare ability to make instant friends.

This interview is primarily concerned with Swayze’s career as artist-writer for Fawcett [Publications]… and will attempt to illustrate the fact that he was one of the top people connected with the Golden Age of comic books. But it would be unfair to the man if discussion here were limited only to Marc’s association with Fawcett. He was also a newspaper comic strip artist and writer… and a professional jazz musician.

Shazam-Twofold When Fawcett Publications hired Marcus D. Swayze in 1940, it was to exclusively work on Captain Marvel. He later created the first drawings for Mary Marvel and drew her earliest adventures. Otherwise, it was just he and the World’s Mightiest Mortal until the artist left in 1942 to serve in World War II. And while in the military he wrote CM stories on a consistent basis. Seen here are Marc’s covers for Whiz Comics #36 ( Oct. ’42) and for Wow Comics #10 (Feb. ’43). [Shazam! heroes TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

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FCA: Steranko’s History of Comics credits you with working on a variety of Fawcett features. Which specific feature did you do the greatest amount of work on?

SWAYZE: It would probably be a toss-up between Captain Marvel and Phantom Eagle.

I was hired in 1940 specifically to work on Captain Marvel. Except for the time it took to do the original drawings for the Mary Marvel character and drawing the first one or two stories for that feature, plus an occasional illustration for the non-comics magazines, Captain Marvel was all I did until I left for the armed forces in 1942. In the service I wrote stories for Captain Marvel on a fairly consistent basis. I took over Phantom Eagle shortly after my discharge in 1944, doing all the art and some of the writing until the feature was discontinued in Wow Comics [#69, Aug. 1948].

FCA: On a scale of Captain Marvel’s artists—with C.C. Beck and Pete Costanza heading the list—where do you believe you rate? And did you work on any other hero characters besides CM and Phantom Eagle?

SWAYZE: Considering Beck the #1 Captain Marvel artist, I considered myself number two, probably because they told me I was.

While on the Fawcett staff, from 1940 to 1942, nobody produced more Captain Marvel art than I did. And as I look back over the books that were published at the time, I am convinced that I contributed more Captain Marvel scripts than any other artist— and more than some of the writers. I returned to New York after my discharge from the Army. I did not join Beck’s shop or the Fawcett staff because I was determined to continue my career from my hometown of Monroe, Louisiana.

Flyin’ South Before leaving New York City and heading back home to Louisiana with the Phantom Eagle assignment from Fawcett, Swayze also signed a contract with the Bell Syndicate to draw the Sunday page of the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip. Marc had assisted on FJ with its creator Russell Keaton prior to coming to Fawcett. When Swayze took over the FJ Sunday, Keaton had moved on to work for the Air Force, but passed away soon thereafter. As a favor to Keaton’s widow, Swayze took over the daily strip, as well. A Glenn Chaffin-written, Marc Swayze-drawn FJ Sunday page from 6-17-45, courtesy of Ger Apeldoorn. [©2011 The Bell Syndicate or its successors in interest.]

In a few months I had accomplished that by an arrangement with Ralph Daigh, Fawcett editorial director, and with Will Lieberson’s approval, to produce Phantom Eagle, and a contract with the Bell Syndicate to draw the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip Sunday page.

(Before leaving New York, I went by Bell … to tell some of the folks I knew I was leaving. They asked me to take over the Sunday pages of Flyin’ Jenny, as Russell was going to do some work for the Air Force … shortly after, Keaton got sick and died and, as a favor to his widow, I took over the daily strip.) During the several months these negotiations were being made, I drew one [story] of Ibis, Mr. Scarlet and Pinky, and maybe one or two others.

FCA: Your working freelance “long distance” was rather unusual back then, wasn’t it?

SWAYZE: I guess I was one of the first people that worked that way.

When I suggested it to Fawcett, I was proud of their response. Ralph Daigh said, “We have never operated like this.” Before, they had always insisted that freelance people be in the New York area, almost as if they were on staff. I told them I had decided to go back South—even if I had to work as a truck driver for a living. Ralph said, “Hold on, I’ll talk it over with the staff.” So Ralph came back and told me that [art director] Al Allard said, “Marcus is one of the few artists who have a respect for deadlines.” So I was told to go to Will Lieberson and get an assignment.

FCA: Do you recall specific art/stories/covers that you did at Fawcett prior to taking over Phantom Eagle?

SWAYZE: I have a few books from that era, and from them I have drawn the following list of work I did. It’s not a complete list by any means. Beck retouched all Captain Marvels whether they needed it or not, which was as it should have been for consistency of character.

Cover art: Whiz Comics #36-39; Captain Marvel Adventures #12, 15, 19; Wow Comics #9, 10. Complete story art (layout, pencil, inks): “Capt.

Marvel and Klang the Killer (CMA #15); origin of Mary Marvel (CMA #18); “The Training of Mary Marvel” (CMA #19); “Capt. Marvel and the Baron of Barracuda Bay” (CMA #30); “Capt. Marvel Gets the Heir” (CMA #40); “Ibis Makes a Pact with the Devil” (Whiz #59); “Mr. Scarlet and Pinky Wrestle with the Spectre of Death in the House of Beauty” (Wow #29). Writing: “Capt. Marvel and the Mad Hermit (CMA #25); “Capt. Marvel and His Country Cousin” (CMA #26); “Capt. Marvel and the Pledge of the Gremlins” (CMA #27); “Capt. Marvel and the Baron of Barracuda Bay” (CMA #30).

There were quite a number of Fawcett romances [Sweethearts, Romantic Secrets, Life Story, etc.] containing two stories by me—art, that is. In digging out these old books, I noticed that in Life Story #21 (Dec.

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detail in the matter of descriptions. Naturally, some stories afforded more graphic challenge than others. Remember, though, a story had passed an editor before it reached the artist, and there were some highly qualified, dedicated people on the comics editorial staff at Fawcett. Of course, the stories that I most enjoyed drawing were those little “masterpieces” which I wrote myself! Wendell Crowley and I had a laugh at a remark one of the writers made about how he generally left the description blank on Phantom Eagle scripts because he knew I was going to present the story the way I wanted anyhow!

FCA: To draw a feature such as Phantom Eagle you had to have some knowledge of how to depict planes. Was research mandatory in your work, or was imagination the rule of thumb?

Wings Comics One Fawcett writer once remarked that he left descriptions blank on Phantom Eagle scripts because he knew Swayze would just end up drawing the story the way he wanted to anyway… and we’re glad he did! The PE splash page from Wow Comics #67 (June 1948). [Phantom Eagle TM & ©2011 DC Comics; story ©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

1950) all three stories were done by me, except for the lettering, which was done by my sister Daisy, who did just about all my lettering from 1945 on. She was one of the greatest letterers, according to Roy Ald and Will Lieberson. When I left New York with Flyin’ Jenny under one arm and Phantom Eagle under the other, I wrote my sister—sending her lettering samples—and told her I needed her help doing lettering. She had never claimed to have any art abilities but took on the assignment. At first it was rough, but eventually she developed her own style. Once I received a letter praising the clarity of my lettering. I had to write back and confess it was the work of my sister, Daisy!

FCA: Did you enjoy the romance work, or did you go crazy with the corny plots and situations?

SWAYZE: I enjoyed doing them except for their depriving me of the satisfaction of drawing my own writing. I never had any desire to write the romances. From the art standpoint they offered a number of challenges: more emphasis on and time for character development and emotional expression, more realistic art style as opposed to the heavy physical action of the adventure comics. The plots didn’t bother me. I considered it my responsibility and privilege as an artist-writer to alter a storyline here and there, to shorten dialogue and so on, when necessary to improve the feature.

FCA: Were stories submitted to you with each panel blocked out, description by description of what should be shown, or were you given a general idea and told to take it from there?

SWAYZE: Fawcett stories all followed the formal format of description plus dialogue for every panel. I believe it was a strict policy that stories be submitted first in outline for approval, with the completed script to follow.

That was my procedure for writing them. The writers varied in style and

SWAYZE: My approach was to rough in the planes the way I wanted them in relation to the story, then get out the file material for detail. I suppose that would be employing both imagination and research. I redesigned the Phantom Eagle’s plane after taking over the feature in 1944, endeavoring to create a small, easily identifiable jet that reflected PE’s character. Due to the volume of work I had taken on, which included the Flyin’ Jenny Sunday page and later the daily strip, time was of extreme importance; therefore all the fussy detail was omitted from Mickey Malone-Phantom Eagle’s “Cometplane.”

FCA: Who were your favorite comic book writers, artists, and editors?

SWAYZE: Considering the art criteria as characterization, pictorial storytelling, expression, penciling, inking and speed, I give first place to myself.

Also second! [laughs] I’ve had a great respect for the storytelling art of C.C. Beck. To my knowledge he had the opportunity to carry only the first few Captain Marvel stories all the way alone, from layout through inking, and those are little classics. Mac Raboy demanded the time—and got it—to do the most finished, beautifully inked work of all the comic book artists I knew.

Pete Costanza was very fast. In his long career in comics, and so much of it with Beck and Captain Marvel, he must have established some kind of quantity record. Pete was talkative, witty, and much fun to work with. Top speed would have to go to Bill Molno, with whom I worked at Charlton in 1955.

It is next to impossible for me to classify the writers I knew, simply because I didn’t pay much attention to the names on the scripts. Otto Binder was indeed a talented, prolific professional. So were Bill Woolfolk, Jon Messman, Joe Millard, and others. Rod Reed, generally thought of as an editor (and a good one), was and is a great writer. Again, I must acknowledge one of those I worked with at Charlton during my last year in the comics. The writer was Joe Gill, who wrote so much, so well, so fast.

It would be easier if the editors could be classified according to their ability to play ball! Stanley Kauffman, for instance, was a fabulous infielder, as was Tom Naughton. As supervisors of the Fawcett comics editorial staff, Ed Herron, Rod Reed and Will Lieberson in turn had complete respect and cooperation from their people. When I was doing Phantom Eagle and the romance comics, it was a pleasure to work with editor Roy Ald. The most dedicated, conscientious, greatest student of the comics was my friend Wendell Crowley. It is so difficult to try and rate

“We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age!”

creative people, particularly people you’ve been so fond of. Rocky Mastroserio, Stan Campbell, Chic Stone, Ed Robbins, and Al Liederman, just to name a few, were other favorites.

FCA: As a person who was there, which company had the best art staff?

The late Otto Binder, primarily a Fawcett man, said that Quality Comics had a better writing staff.

SWAYZE: The best art staff? Fawcett! You see, I didn’t look around at the other companies and never worked in a “shop.” I knew the Jack Binder crew because they did quite a bit of material for Fawcett and were our opponents on the ball field. I’m sure there must have been some great work being produced by contemporary publishers and shops. I suppose I was too busy doing my own thing to pay much attention.

FCA: In drawing comics there are two schools of thought. An artist such as Will Eisner thought that backgrounds were essential to the story, never more evident than on his work on The Spirit, and C.C. Beck thought that backgrounds should be kept to a minimum. What’s the Swayze opinion?

SWAYZE: Backgrounds are important in establishing pictorially a change in locale. Beyond that, bits of background are handy for unifying composition, or as necessary in the storytelling. I would never foist a background upon the reader to the extent that it competes with foreground activity. Good pictorial storytelling consists of a tasteful balance between those panels heavy with background detail and those with little or no background. This would appear to require more creative ability than would a continuous stream of panels loaded to the brim with drawings. The Swayze opinion is that comics should be drawn not for other comic strip artists but for the greatest number of readers, with high priority given to storytelling, timing of the action to place emphasis on the dramatic incidents, and a minimum of pointless, exaggerated gymnastics and superficial action. Pleasing characters, of course, are essential.

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Flyin’ Jenny strip at the same time.

Was [Ken] Bald ever at Fawcett? I knew him only as one of the better ball players on the Binder team. I don’t believe I ever met [Kurt] Schaffenberger; he must have come along after I went into the Army in 1942, but his work indicates he is a capable artist. I feel that Mac Raboy and I held a mutual respect for the work of one another, acknowledging the lack of similarity in natural styles.

FCA: You wrote many of the stories you drew. Did you try to bring elements of sophistication into the stories, or was that frowned upon by the editors?

SWAYZE: I had no urge to be bringing anything into the comics that wasn’t already there. The Fawcett policies were immaculate. The books were put together primarily for young people, and as far as I could tell were never suggestive in any way. For example, I was with Charlton Publications for a brief period in 1955. Some of their material consisted of reprints from other publishers, one being Fawcett. All such material went through a laundering process for approval by the Comics Code office which had been established since original publication. The material from some publishers had to undergo tremendous revision… cleavage, scanty attire, dialogue modified. Fawcett’s merely had to have some words like “cop” and “guy” changed to “police officer” and “fellow.”

FCA: Was there a formula to the artistic styles? When Fawcett hired you, were you shown an example of artwork and told, “Here, this is what we want!”?

SWAYZE: Eddie Herron, who hired me for Fawcett, had sent me some drawings of Captain Marvel to duplicate as samples of my own work.

Then, when I joined the staff, Herron, or perhaps Beck or art director Al Allard, said they had been unable to tell mine from Beck’s. I’ve always felt that I could draw in anybody’s style, comfortably. When I did the oneshots of Ibis or Mr. Scarlet in 1944 I simply used the preceding issue as a style guide. As far as style goes, however, I used the style that fitted the need.

FCA: How did the Swayze style fit in? Who were your closest artistic counterparts among the Fawcett people (Beck, Schaffenberger, Bald, Raboy)?

SWAYZE: I suppose my own natural style is best exemplified by the 15 or so ideas that I prepared for features. They show a variety of styles—some fast, some detailed, some cartoony, some illustrative. Some of the ideas would have made it if not for my own actions: Marty Guy, Private Detective at the New York Star had I not been obstinate about their editorial demands; and The Great Pierre, a feature the Bell Syndicate was to release in newspapers in 1955 had I not decided to get out of comics completely.

I don’t believe I had a counterpart, or idol, at Fawcett or anywhere else. I guess I just wasn’t interested in other styles unless the job required it. On Captain Marvel, for example, the style was already established for the feature when I got there, so that’s the style I used. On Phantom Eagle neither the style nor the feature was firmly established when I took it over, so I used a style that I could render at top speed, because I was doing the

Sweet Art Working on Fawcett’s romance comics afforded Swayze more time and emphasis on character development, emotional expression, and drawing in a more realistic art style than the adventure comics. Swayze art from Sweethearts #114 (Aug. 1952), unifying the romance and crime-noir genres. [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

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When I wrote for Fawcett I did it with the purpose of getting editorial approval, without which a writer does not sell. One of the best ways not to get approval was to violate an editorial taboo. I also knew that a certain percentage of the Captain Marvel scripts were of the light humor type. I tried to fill that need.

FCA: Members of the old Fawcett gang, when learning you were to be the subject of an interview, insisted mention be made of your talents in music and baseball. Did you perform professionally in both?

SWAYZE: Music, yes. Baseball, no—although I thought I was a pretty good amateur and played a little semi-pro ball before losing interest.

[EDITOR’S NOTE: Swayze showed us a couple of clippings indicating he was a standout in high school and American Legion baseball. As a pitcher in one game he struck out 19 batters; in another game he pitched a two-hitter while collecting three hits himself. “I showed these with some embarrassment, as sort of proof,” says Swayze, “because my wife June says, ‘Nobody would ever believe all the things you did!’”]

I played music with many dance bands and jazz combos. My preference was a sort of parlor jazz, never quite as far out as hard bop, but a little on the advanced side, or so we thought. I never got into rock at all. I performed plenty on radio, but not really big time. My trio [EDITOR’S NOTE: Swayze on guitar with piano and clarinet] performed nightly for about a year or so from a club here which was broadcast over the local ABC radio station. During World War II, Bing Crosby was called on to perform for army camps and I was fortunate enough to be chosen to accompany him. It didn’t last long, as I was a G.I. at the time, but it gave me an opportunity to get to know a grand guy in Bing.

When I left the Fawcett staff to go into the Army, several of the gang gave me signed, original art as a going-away gift. As we never called ourselves draftsmen (as Webster defines us … found it too awkward), we

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Exemplary Exhibit The versatile Marc Swayze at one of his several one-man art gallery exhibits over the years. Thanks to Marc for the photo.

just called ourselves “drawers.” So when C.C. Beck gave me an original cover, he wrote, ‘To Swayze from Beck, the best pair of drawers Fawcett ever had!’”

Marc Swayze’s memoirs will continue in the next issue of FCA—and of Alter Ego.

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The Very First (In One Sense, Anyway) Superman/Captain Marvel Clash An All-Star Meeting Of Shazam’s Squadron

by John G. Pierce Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

T

he late comics/radio/movie serial historian Jim Harmon wrote, in his seminal 1961 Xero essay “A Swell Bunch of Guys,” that “At times we kids fantasized … meetings between Superman and Captain Marvel—his nearest compeer in the comics pages … After all, every man—even Superman—needs a friend. Even Superman had to feel himself part of society.

And in due course, Superman’s publishers provided him with an appropriate society. It was the Justice Society of America.”

One might wonder, too, if the early comics readers ever fantasized about a meeting of Superman and Captain Marvel and the JSA.

Roy Thomas just might have done so—but, unlike other readers, he later had the opportunity to turn his fantasy into reality, when he wrote his own tribute to the JSA in the 1980s series All-Star Squadron. There, not only did Superman have his Society (far more so than he had experienced in the ’40s, when he had interacted with the JSA only twice), but he also met Captain Marvel and Family.

Since DC had subsumed the major Fawcett characters into their line in the 1970s, Superman and Captain Marvel had met on several occasions, a number of which might lay claim to having been “the first.” But, in terms of timelines, the Squadron story was the first such meeting, given that it was set in 1942.

Before we get to that, though, perhaps we should explain that the All-Star Squadron might be called “the JSA on steroids,” for it included not only the members of the Justice Society as it had existed in the pages of the 1940s AllStar Comics, but numerous other heroes, as well: not only other extant DC characters of the early ’40s, but also heroes from the later-acquired Quality Comics line—plus a couple of brand new heroes retroactively created in the ’80s for gender and ethnic balance. In other words, Thomas “revealed” that the JSA had actually been part of a much larger umbrella group, the All-Star Squadron. Had any kids of the ’40s wondered why, say, Aquaman never interacted with the JSA, even though he was around? Well, in this All-Star Marvels version, he did (although admittedly not often). Did they go further (Top of page:) The Rich Buckler/Jerry Ordway cover to All-Star Squadron #36 and fantasize a meeting of Plastic Man or the Phantom Lady with DC (Aug. 1984) and (directly above) the Rick Hoberg/Ordway one for #37 (Sept. heroes? Less likely, perhaps, but if they’d just hung around the comics

’84). Roy Thomas’ usage of The Marvel Family in the 67-issue series was minimal, due to DC not yet owning the characters outright. [©2011 DC Comics.]

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the CMA #4 cover and three interior panels from that issue, Buckler and guest inker Richard Howell show their ability to capture, albeit briefly, the C.C. Beck style of the original.) Left behind as the rest of the group makes their departure are two youngsters who try to get their attention. And you just know that we’re going to see them again!

Meanwhile, in Berlin, the “Super-Nazi,” (alluded to as “Hauptmann Wunder”—a good German translation of “Captain Marvel”) reports to Hitler. It becomes obvious that he is operating under some kind of spell or hypnosis, specifically (we soon see), the Spear of Destiny, which Thomas had introduced back in issue #4 as a device which has drastic effects on magic-based super-beings who come within its range of influence.

It isn’t long before this particular group of All-Stars arrives in London, where Superman stops to visit The Shining Knight, hospitalized by his own encounter with Captain Marvel. As he flies away from the hospital, Superman has his own first clash with CM, a battle which ends up badly for the Man of Tomorrow. The others arrive to join the fray, but not even the beams from Green Lantern’s ring can contain CM for long. Even so, Marvel decides that in this case flight might be the better part of valor, and heads back across the English Channel.

But as they near the French coast, Batman (who’s riding with Wonder Woman in her invisible plane) realizes she is starting to stiffen, and, always the World’s Greatest Detective, he quickly fathoms the situation.

He shouts to Hawkman to stop GL from venturing further.

See You In The Funny Books In All-Star Squadron #36, a newsstand copy of Captain Marvel Adventures #4 catches Superman’s eye, but he’s not quite ready to join the Capt.

Marvel Club just yet. In these panels Rich Buckler and Rich Howell briefly captured the C. C. Beck art style. [©2011 DC Comics.]

field for 40 more years… well, all things come to those who wait!

Thomas had wanted to incorporate The Marvel Family and all their peers into the Squadron stories from the start, just as he did the Quality heroes, but at that time DC did not own the Fawcett characters outright.

Instead, DC had to pay a pro-rated fee based on how many pages or whatever percentage of a story a Fawcett character appeared in. He was therefore restricted in what he could do; whatever characters he wanted to use had to be cleared by the DC brass. So he had to settle for a two-part storyline in All-Star Squadron #36 & 37 (and, later on, a plot featuring Mr. Mind and Captain Marvel in #51-53); otherwise, Fawcett characters had no part in the series. And, as Thomas recently mused, “In retrospect, I think it’d have been better if I’d left out the Quality heroes, too!”

Following Rich Buckler & Jerry Ordway’s exciting front cover, issue #36, “Thunder over London!,” opens with Superman, Batman, Flash, Hawkman, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman sitting in the balcony of a movie theatre watching a newsreel in which Captain Marvel, here christened a “Super-Nazi,” is demolishing Allied planes. (This opening scene was inspired by the cover of All-Star Comics #24, Winter 1944-45—the first issue of that title I ever saw as a young fan in the early ’60s—a time when I became easily intrigued by the comics of the ’40s; later, to help satiate my thirst, the very generous Julie Schwartz, whom I used to ply with numerous letters, sent me a copy of that very issue, which he had found lying around the DC offices.)

The scenes of destruction have a particularly moving effect on Superman, who watches them with an unusual grimness. Later, when the AllStars pass a newsstand, he picks up a copy of Captain Marvel Adventures #4 (Oct. ’41), since he had recognized Captain Marvel from the newsreel (but only as a comic book character).

He’s so upset that he incinerates the issue with his heat vision and flies off, leaving Plastic Man, who has joined them, to pay for the destroyed comic book! (Incidentally, in the panels showing

As the group land and confer, Wonder Woman is puzzled why the non-magic Superman should be vulnerable to magic as are she and Green Lantern. “Frankly, I’m not sure myself,” Superman comments. But wellinformed readers know that Mort Weisinger, the Man of Steel’s long-time editor, had years earlier decreed that the science-fiction-based Superman was vulnerable not only to Kryptonite but also to magic… and Mort’s word was martial law around DC’s hallowed halls.

Anyway, before the discussion can progress further, the two youngsters previously seen in the shadows have somehow made their way across the Atlantic to catch up with the All-Stars, and now they introduce themselves as the two whom we knew they were all along: Mary Batson and Freddy Freeman. Concluding that otherwise the All-Star heroes are “never gonna believe us,” they say their magic words and change into Mary Marvel and Captain Marvel Jr. But that merely transforms them into what Hawkman calls “Hitler Youth versions of that Super-Nazi,” and Green Lantern shouts: “Get them, All-Stars—before they get us!”

So, if Weisinger’s influence still prospered, here we see the influence of another long-time editor, Marvel’s Stan Lee, who decreed that whenever heroes meet, they automatically misunderstand each other and fight!

(Well, okay, Stan probably never actually issued such a declaration, but that’s what almost always happened in the stories he wrote—or edited.)

The tense situation picks up the following month in #37, wherein Batman, ever the voice of

They’re At It Again!

Superman and Captain Marvel have encountered each other many times since the 1970s, but in terms of timelines, the 1942-set All-Star Squadron story is chronologically the first such meeting. Here, the Man of Steel battles a notsound-of-mind CM, and even the particular Buckler/Howell pose above is reminiscent of the mini-series Kingdom Come that would come along 12 years later.) [©2011 DC Comics.]

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reason, urges his peers to give the youngsters a hearing, at least. “I’ll give them a hearing, all right,” snarls Superman, “when I take these HitlerYouth dropouts over my knee!” Since Superman seems less than amenable to listening, Mary and Junior seize him on either side and carry him into the sky. Wonder Woman’s lasso stops Mary, while Green Lantern is more successful at imprisoning Junior in a green bubble than he had been with CM Senior in the previous chapter.

Back on the ground, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Hawkman convince Superman to calm down a bit. Batman suggests that the Man of Steel is “a trifle upset because of that beating you took from the ‘SuperNazi,’” to which Superman snaps: “I’d like to see how any of you would’ve done against that creep in the long red underwear!” Then an agitated Mary tells Supie not to “call my twin brother a creep, you creep!” (Quite a different reaction from the one she had in the 1978 Superman vs.

Shazam! book in which, upon that first meeting, she became hopelessly enamored of him—for a few pages, at least.)

Finally, the two Marvels are finally able to tell their story—that, just after Mary’s origin (as told in Captain Marvel Adventures #18, 1942), Captain Marvel had disappeared. A quick trip to visit their mentor, the ghost of the wizard Shazam, informs them that CM had been pulled into a parallel Earth. It begins to dawn on the All-Stars that CM had somehow materialized “in Hitler-land” (as Wonder Woman puts it) and thus had fallen under the influence of the Spear of Destiny.

Lightning Strikes Thrice The tense finale to part one of the story brought forth from Buckler and Howell a Mac Raboy-inspired panel… and finally, Captain Marvel Jr. and Mary Marvel! [©2011 DC Comics.]

The Marvels are magic-based—but their alter egos are not. So the logical thing to do is for Freddy and Mary—not Junior and Mary Marvel—to venture into Berlin. And, with Plastic Man forming himself into a dirigible to carry them, that’s just what they do, while the three most powerful of this group, viz., Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern, must stay behind.

But what Flash, Hawkman, Plas, and the youngsters discover is yet another surprise: a bound and gagged Billy Batson. For, it is soon revealed, not only did Captain Marvel materialize in Nazi Germany, but he and Billy had been split into two separate physical entities—and saying the magic word availed Billy nothing. They also learn that it is one Herr Gootsden, one of Hitler’s underlings (from 1942’s All-Star Comics #13), who had discovered Earth-S—which is not so named herein—and the relationship between CM and Billy. (With this, plus the Phantom Zone villains in Silver Age “Superman” stories, and other examples one could cite, voyeurism in the DC Universe was at an all-time high.)

Gootsden had perfected a way of pulling Captain Marvel onto EarthTwo (not that anyone there called it that, of course) and splitting him and Billy into two—with the added benefit that, as long as they hold Billy captive, “Hauptmann Wunder” could be sent anywhere and “He will remain a loyal National Socialist.” In other words, Cap didn’t necessarily have to be within the sphere of influence of the Spear of Destiny, as long as Billy was. (No, the explanation doesn’t make sense, but comics require that we take a lot of things on faith, so let’s do that!)

To add insult to injury, Gootsden submits Mary and Freddy to the same machine, thus splitting their Shazam-powered selves off from their everyday identities. And of course, under the influence of the Spear, they instantly turn into Nazi sympathizers. You just know a big battle is coming!

The Family That Plays Together…

In this full page of action from “Lightning in Berlin!” the Golden Age greats eventually joined forces. Pencils by Arvell Jones, inks by Richard Howell. [©2011 DC Comics.]

So, for The Marvel Family, it’s back to London for a showdown. Their appearance and obvious belligerence convince Superman that “we were all hoodwinked by those kids! They’re Nazis, too—just like him!” And so the

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Mind-ing The Store Concurrently with the 1985-86 series Crisis on Infinite Earths, Mr. Mind, the World’s Wickedest Worm, formed his very first Monster Society of Evil, made up of DC super-villains, in All-Star Squadron #51-53 (Nov. ’85-Jan. ’86). (Clockwise from left, with scripts by Roy:) In #51 readers got their first glimpse of Mind, thrilling to the great stars and series of 1942 radio, which lured him to Earth-Two. Art by Mike Clark & Vince Colletta. #52 saw three of the Squadron, though not Mr. Mind himself, encountering Captain Marvel on Earth-Shazam. Art by Arvell Jones & Alfredo Alcala.

And, at the end of #53’s segment, Mr. Mind does wind up on Earth-S (with art again by Clark & Colletta), unknowingly set to pursue his rendezvous with destiny that fortunate fans have read in Captain Marvel Adventures #22-46 (1943-45) or in the American Nostalgia Society’s splendiferous, full-color 1989 hardcover The Monster Society of Evil. Not long ago, DC intended to reprint that entire adventure, but those plans have apparently fallen through… so happy hunting on eBay! [©2011 DC Comics.]

covers of Flash Comics and was the only member to appear in every Golden Age JSA story—so Hawkman definitely rated being up there with the others.

(Roy has said he wanted to use DC’s six biggest 1940s characters, plus Quality’s top super-hero and Fawcett’s top three, to make it a true “allstar” gathering.) battle royal ensues, with Green Lantern facing off against Junior, Wonder Woman versus Mary, and Superman finally getting his grudge match against the Big Red Cheese. Things don’t go very well, until the cavalry comes to the rescue—in this case, the dirigibleshaped Plastic Man along with Hawkman, Batman, Flash, and the three kids from Earth-S. Once the latter trio are out of range of the Spear’s sphere, their Nazi-influenced counterparts revert to the true-blue Americans they have always been, and manage to avert defeat from flesh-and-blood Nazi invaders by joining forces with the All-Stars. At the end, though, the Marvels are still stuck in separate personas.

However, Billy, displaying some of the cleverness he always had in the Fawcett stories, suggests that they say their magic words simultaneously. They do, and it works, apparently not only reunifying the separate personas but also transporting them back to Earth-S. As I said, you have to take a lot on faith.

Superman, however, isn’t totally mollified. “And I never found out if I could’ve beat Captain Marvel—even if we’d gone on fighting for a decade!” “Is it really that important to you?” asks Hawkman. “Now that you mention it— no, not really. If we ever meet again, I hope it’ll be—as friends, in a world at peace.” “In that case, Superman,” chimes in Wonder Woman for the story’s closing line, “I hope you two meet again very, very soon.…”

There are various aspects to this story arc that made it a genuine fanpleaser. One is that Roy Thomas wisely limited it to just two chapters, although, as noted earlier, the fee DC would have to pay to Fawcett may also have played a role in that decision. Then, too, he showed great restraint in restricting the All-Star cast to Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Wonder Woman, and Plastic Man… each an iconic figure during the Golden Age of Comics, as were all three of the Marvels. Each of these heroes except Hawkman not only headlined their own titles, but also appeared in one or more anthology titles—and, while the Winged Wonder didn’t have his own book back then, he did alternate with The Flash on the

It seemed only fitting that, during the World War II era, The Marvel Family would meet other fellow Golden Age archetypes. The imaginings of a young Jim Harmon and his chums were eventually fulfilled in a way they could never have foreseen!

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Fawcett’s Amazing Spider Men When Captain Marvel & Co. Battled A Horde Of Web-Spinning Wonders

by P.C. Hamerlinck “Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly!

Hah! You are caught in the web of… Spider Man!” —“Captain Marvel and the Webs of Crime,” Whiz Comics #89 (Sept. 1947)

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veryone hates them. But writers of adventure fiction and the sequential arts have long found the cunning spider an effective plot device and gimmick for both the righteous and the immoral. Unveiled below is a web of notable arachnid premises spun by the inspired comic book scriptwriters at Fawcett Publications—including one particularly memorable Spider Man—all of which emerged years before the eminent and edifying words, “With great power there must also come great responsibility!”

Spider Man, Spider Man, Does Whatever a Spider Can Fifteen years before a new wallcrawling sensation swung into action in Amazing Fantasy #15, Spider Man had Captain Marvel ensnared in “The Webs of Crime,” appearing in Whiz Comics #89 (Sept. 1947)… incidentally, the FCA editor’s very first Whiz purchase, over 30 years ago. [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

The Spider People Nickel Comics #5 (July 1940) The second escapade of Captain Venture and his beautiful partner Zyra (a.k.a. “The Planet Princess”—last survivor of Earth’s Saturn colony) unfolds when the couple notice from their ship an uncharted planet—a world so dark that “telescopes have missed it”… even though all is completely luminous when they touch down to investigate. It’s not long before they encounter the planet’s large and intelligent inhabitants: the

Spider People—or, as CV casually first called them, “Spiders … big ones.” Capturing the Earthlings with large strands of web, the Spider People take their prizes through the “web-fortress” and to their leader: the Spider King.

The Spider King divulges his grandiose scheme to transplant two Spider People brains into the Captain and Zyra and then have them live among mankind as spies in preparation of world domination. But the quick-on-her-feet Princess informs the King of an apparatus on their ship that can assist the Spider People in their campaign—all they have to do is just let her show it to them—so the King agrees to it. (Okay, so maybe the Spider People aren’t so intelligent, after all.)

Zyra leads the Spider King inside the ship, dupes him into touching the vessel’s power cables, and effectively fries him to death. In the interim, Venture has broken free, notes that “small spiders on earth make flying machines of their webs,” then improvises his very own flying web-chute, quickly builds a fire, and floats away over heated air to Zyra. The couple then enthusiastically destroy the entire spider kingdom with that most popular celestial weapon of all: the ray gun.

Granted, this early entry from the Fawcett comics canon wasn’t exactly a remarkable piece of science-fiction fantasy, but it undoubtedly satisfied the escapist thirsts of its young, nickel-paying customers. Nickel Comics was one of Roscoe Fawcett’s few failed experiments, and after its final issue a few months later, Captain Venture rocketed over to Master Comics #8 for a 15-issue last hurrah. The character was created by Rafael Astarita, who also illustrated Venture’s earliest exploits. At least writer Otto Binder can’t take the blame for “The Spider People,” since he didn’t take over the “Captain Venture” strip until March of 1941—his very first comic book feature for Fawcett before significantly appropriating his words of wonder to the much more fertile world of another Captain.

Invasion From Mars/The Spider Men Captain Marvel Adventures #2 (April-July 1941) The Spider People [©2011 the respective copyright holders.]

The Earth’s astronomers see it coming: an invasion from Mars! WHIZ radio’s boy broadcaster Billy Batson gets on the air and tries to calm down his listeners as a fleet of ships descend upon New York City.

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The Spider Men invaders (which young artist George Tuska depicted more like large four-legged beetles than like spiders) immediately unleash pandemonium until a familiar flying red-clad hero shows up: “All right, Mr. Spider Man. You’re now dealing with Captain Marvel!” The Mightiest Mortal takes one of the spiders down, only to discover they are nothing but robots. Billy informs his boss, Sterling Morris, that “we’ve got most of the people into Jersey” and then surmises that he needs to “get to Mars” to find out exactly who is manufacturing the robots. Morris rolls his eyes and tells the kid he “better go home and get some rest!”

It takes the Big Red Cheese a whopping five minutes to get to Mars, but since all is “as quiet as a tomb” he confidently changes back to Billy.

The boy, of course, is immediately seized by guardsmen and brought to their long-haired king. Billy is about to be beheaded when he and Marvel switch places (“Hmmm … too bad. And a nice new axe at that!”). After some “gentle” persuasion by Marvel, the king promises never to invade Earth again—but insists he can’t call off his spider-militia. Marvel races back to Earth and makes an instant junk heap of the Spider Men. Otto Binder—who had been working freelance before taking an editorial position at Fawcett in January of 1942 when Ed Herron was drafted into the Army—didn’t write this story, either. Binder quit the editorial job six months later and returned to freelance writing, developing the Marvel Family mythology further than any other writer. And in just six short years he would craft his own Spider Man for Fawcett.

The Webs Of Destruction Captain Marvel Adventures #30 (Dec. 1943) Chapter 9 of Otto Binder’s groundbreaking oeuvre, “The Monster Society of Evil,” found that malicious, spectacle-wearing worm, Mr. Mind, on a flight with Dr. Smashi to Japan’s base at Rabaul in the South Pacific—where the diminutive nuisance conspired to annihilate Australia.

Mind establishes a collaboration with Smashi and two other partners-incrime: Germany’s Herr Phoul, and Jorrk, a crocodile-headed alien from the planet Punkus.

Mind and his cohorts get down to business by assembling a flying mechanical spider (even though C.C. Beck’s art staff drew the darn thing with only six legs; break out the art morgue already!) and then head to the Aussie Allied post, Port Darwin. Arriving there, Mind’s Spider Plane snatches up opposing aircraft with a “silken webwork.” Captain Marvel hurries to the scene, where Mind and associates release more web from Mind’s flagship, which keeps CM busy rescuing spiraling pilots from certain death. Marvel returns to chase down the Spider Plane, but Mind’s manic invention becomes entangled in its own webbing and falls out of control. The wicked worm and his minions parachute down to safety and evade CM. (See Alter Ego #64 for a chapter-by-chapter study of “The Monster Society of Evil” and its 25 installments.)

The Webs Of Destruction [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Invasion From Mars/The Spider Men [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Web Of Evil Fawcett’s Funny Animals #38 (May 1946) The gentle, fairy tale-like comics of anthropomorphic Hoppy the Marvel Bunny—extended family member of the Captain Marvel franchise—were clearly geared for the youngest of readers… but the Bunny’s creator, Chad Grothkopf, wasn’t afraid to push the envelope a smidgen for the kiddies every now and then.

The use of the wily spider was fairly routine within kid comics, of course, and Fawcett’s Funny Animals had its fair share of wall-crawlers over its 83-issue run. One early Binder-Grothkopf production from 1944 had introduced the Spider Master to Marvel Bunny’s rogue gallery … and a couple of years later, cigar-smoking Sam Spider entered the scene.

Queen Butterfly, fearful that Sam Spider and his armed spider forces are planning an attack on her kingdom, enlists the Marvel Bunny for help. And indeed, Sam has been massing his spiders across the border and equipping them with his recentlydeveloped automatic steel web throwers.

Hoppy confronts Sam Spider at his home, but he denies any imminent attack. Sam then cons Captain Marvel Bunny to stay for dinner. Since wellWeb of Evil mannered Hoppy knows [Hoppy the Marvel Bunny TM & ©2011 DC Comics.] it isn’t polite to eat and run, he stays put a little while longer, allowing the spider-troops time to launch a surprise attack.

Marvel Bunny finally tears apart the spider soldiers’ steel webbing and strikes them a series of punches. The situation intensifies when the Queen is captured by Sam Spider. Marvel Bunny zooms to her rescue, but Sam unleashes his “wild, untamed, terrible tarantulas! One sting from them and you’re dead!” So, Marvel Bunny—in good ol’ Tom Tyler technique— lifts each of the tarantulas above his head and tosses them off a cliff to their doom! Fawcett’s Funny Animals?!

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throughout the city. He comes to the aid of more helpless victims, and later, as Billy returns to his neighborhood, the boy still wonders if the whole thing isn’t just some big hoax. Right on cue, a giant spider drops down in front of him.

“Shazam!” Marvel strikes a blow to one of the creatures, only to discover the spider is a mechanical robot (a bit reminiscent of those spider-bots back in CMA #2). Captain Marvel volunteers Billy to be human “fly” bait in order to lure out the spider from hiding. Sure enough, the enormous creature rears its ugly head and instantly wraps Billy from head to toe in a cocoon of webbing while, overhead, a blimp tows them up and away.

Captain Marvel Battles The Miniature Giants Captain Marvel Adventures #101 (Oct. 1949)

Whether he became a hobo, or got the wrong suit back from the drycleaners, or tried to keep Mr. Tawny on a diet, there was never a shortage of charming “Captain Marvel” stories during the Golden Age. Conversely, there was one particular recurrent premise which often gave way to some of most imaginative “CM” tales… that usually went something like this: Billy pays a visit to Inside the zeppelin is Lem Legree, who’s some local scientist or inventor to preparing a modern revival of the slave trade. He interview for his radio broadcast; from flies his captives (including the Potters and there, of course, the circumstances would Dexter) to his “plantation” and intends to use somehow turn unpleasant and Billy as an example to them. But since when has Billy/Marvel would suddenly find Captain Marvel Battles The Miniature Giants Billy never been able to jar his gag loose at the themselves in some extraordinary world [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.] very last second to say the word and get out of the or equally bizarre predicament. Otto jam? At this stage of the intrepid boy’s adventures, Binder’s “Captain Marvel Battles the he had turned that practice into an unequivocal work of art.

Miniature Giants” was just such a yarn. And while this really wasn’t a spider-themed story, per se, CM still came face to face with one.

Captain Marvel Fights The Unholy Spider

Billy goes out to interview Professor Tomkin, an entomologist. After the professor excitedly shows Billy his bug collection, he informs the boy broadcaster that he has perfected a shrinking hormone called “Reducine” to further his insect studies—as well as a hormone called “Enlargine” (keep your jokes to yourself, please)—used for returning back to normal size. Even though Billy thinks the professor is just a bit impetuous, he still agrees to reduce down to insect size with him “in case Captain Marvel is needed” and to score “wonderful material for a broadcast!”

Shortly before the sovereignty of Captain Marvel met its untimely demise, in a story by Otto Binder and C.C. Beck, college professor Dr. Rufe Brewler swallows a potion he has been developing, and a sudden change in his molecular structure takes place: “It’s happening! I’m changing into a… spider!”

The Professor and Billy each take swigs of Reducine, but after Billy drinks it, he becomes dizzy and falls backwards, breaking the bottle of Enlargine with the back of his head. Now seemingly marooned on a world of giant insect monsters, the two immediately find themselves under attack. Captain Marvel is called upon to subdue a giant dragon wasp, a worm (which the Big Red Cheese mistakes for a sea serpent!), and later slays a giant spider, before they return to normal size.

Soon, carrying a hypodermic needle, he enters the college Dean’s bedroom and stabs him with the needle, because he thinks the Dean is envious of his genius. The Dean’s cry grabs the attention of a nearby Billy Batson. “Shazam!” Captain Marvel hurries to the Dean and rushes him to the hospital—but the doctors are unable to save his life. Marvel is surprised to learn from the doctor that it wasn’t a spider bite that killed the Dean—but an injection of strychnine!

But at least the little expedition wasn’t a total loss for the Professor: the oversized spider that Captain Marvel killed results in the discovery of a new spider species.

Marvel flies over to the Potter boarding house where Billy’s friend Professor Edgewise lives, just in time to prevent him from being attacked by a spider that quickly crawls away (Brewler hates Edgewise, too), but which in its haste leaves behind a mini-hypodermic needle. As a befuddled Edgewise wonders how a spider could handle such a large tool, Marvel flies off and is soon stunned to see the silhouette of a giant spider on a building below him—but by the time he gets over to it, only Brewler in his human form is standing there and he plays innocent with CM.

Spider’s Doom Captain Marvel Adventures #139 (Dec. 1952) It was inevitable. The horror comics phenomenon had clumsily crept its way into the Captain Marvel strip, but the awkward amalgamation still occasionally managed to put an entertaining bent into the genre.

One such tale is Otto Binder’s “Spider’s Doom,” which opens with Billy rushing to work when he suddenly becomes ensnared in a huge, strand of spider webbing.

As Captain Marvel, he breaks out of the sticky trap and then goes to free his friends also caught in webs: Ma and Pa Potter, and boy scientist Dexter Knox (the latter a character designed by the story’s artist, C.C. Beck, to resemble himself when he was a teenager).

As Marvel investigates further, he witnesses the incredible sight of giant spiders running rampant

Captain Marvel Adventures #146 (July 1953)

Spider’s Doom [Billy Batson TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

Back at his residence, Brewler changes into a spider again without consuming any of the potion. “The drug’s in my bloodstream! It’s taking control!” He returns to the university to finish off Edgewise, but a suspicious Marvel is there

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Captain Marvel Fights The Unholy Spider [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.]

waiting. Brewler jumps out of the window, and by the time he hits the ground he’s back to being a spider again.

Marvel can’t figure out where Brewler could have disappeared to, as the man— now permanently changed to a spider—gloats to himself as he crawls away: “They’ll never find me! I can live out my life in safety!”

But Rufe Brewler is “fated to live only a few more moments in the false safety of his spider form,” for in the offing is a lethal, hungry female spider prepared to cruelly pounce and devour one of her own kind. The pronouncement at the story’s end assures us that this was “positively the last appearance of the Spider Man!”

Captain Marvel And The Webs Of Crime Whiz Comics #89 (Sept. 1947) Spider-Man and another Captain Marvel may have worked together in a 1973 issue of Marvel Team-Up, but 26 years earlier, at Fawcett, Otto Binder, C.C. Beck, and Pete Costanza had placed the original Captain Marvel in opposition with … Spider Man! Golden Age groundbreakers had already set the standard for the sadistically-minded, eccentrically-costumed “super-villain”—an accepted blueprint open to an array of interpretations over subsequent ages.

Fawcett’s Spider Man, while no exception to this established model, was nevertheless an extraordinary creation, with some correlations to Marvel Comics’ imminent webslinger (i.e., a readily released liquid web concoction and the means of confining individuals in giant, self-created webs). C.C. Beck’s design for Spider Man was, to some degree, a compelling amalgamation of Black Adam (pointed ears, black costume—albeit a hairy one) and Elzie Segar’s Sea Hag (facial features), accompanied with an absurd headpiece and a purse similar to the one Captain Tootsie used to carry his candy around—except with a handy websquirting attachment.

(One last paralleling footnote: an out-ofcomics artist named C.C. Beck would later collaborate with fellow comics giant

Joe Simon and his brother-in-law on an ultimately unwanted, pre-Silver age super-hero called… the Silver Spider.)

“Captain Marvel and the Webs of Crime” begins when two pilots, about to embark on a flight transporting a million dollars in gold, are interrupted by the impudent Spider Man, who tightly wraps them up in strands of web from his invention that “squirts out a liquid plastic, which hardens and forms a sticky thread when it hits the air!”

Spider Man’s colleagues take the place of the debilitated pilots and fly the plane away with its valuable cargo, but unbeknownst to them, they have a passenger: Billy Batson, on board to broadcast a radio feature on gold delivery to Fort Knox. The hijacking pilots knock the boy unconscious, then land the plane on a deserted beach to meet their boss. Billy awakens, ushering in Captain Marvel’s first confrontation with Spider Man. The villain squirts the sticky plastic substance in Marvel’s face (“Holy Moley! This is worse than taffy!”) as Spider Man flees, leaving behind his two henchmen and the shipment of gold.

In a striking full-page, webbed-background layout showcasing Spider Man’s crime spree, the lawbreaker curses Marvel for foiling his first plot and vows to “strike throughout the city with my webs! …

Spider Man can’t be stopped!” Captain Marvel desperately searches the Captain Marvel And The Webs streets for his new Of Crime opponent, and finally spots [Shazam hero TM & ©2011 DC Comics.] him robbing a bank officer.

Spider Man escapes around the corner to squirt out a plastic rope towards the top of a building and climbs up the side of it “just like a spider!”

Spider Man enters the structure, and Captain Marvel loses track of him. Spidey sneaks back outside, only to overhear a couple of boys playing on a sidewalk. “Now it’s my turn to be Billy Batson,” says one of the boys, “so I can change into Captain Marvel!” “Okay!” his friend agrees, “I’ll be the crook! Say ’Shazam’ now! I’m ready for the Captain Marvel punch!” (The kids must’ve been members of the Captain Marvel Club who were clued-up on Billy’s worst-kept secret.)

Upon learning that Marvel’s other form is Batson, Spider Man plans to snatch the radio broadcaster outside of station WHIZ. Sure enough, as soon as Billy leaves work, he runs right into one of Spider Man’s webs as his foe squirts a plastic thread to form a gag over his mouth, then wraps the boy up, as he cheerfully describes, “like a birthday present!”

At Spider Man’s lair, Billy finds himself desperately fixed in the middle of large web as his rival releases his poisonous tarantula upon him. As the “pet” closely approaches, “Billy’s keen mind sees a salvation” (like he always does in a pickle). The unwavering boy presses the sticky strand across his mouth onto the equally sticky web that he’s hung up on, enabling him to pull back enough of the gag to say the word. Marvel finishes off Spider Man by wrapping him up in his own webbing. And then Otto Binder wraps everything up with his brand of homespun wit by having Billy report over the radio that the recently-jailed Spider Man “overreached himself and went after too big a ‘fly’—Captain Marvel!”

And Now For Something (Almost) Completely Different…

(Left:) The Gil Kane/John Romita cover for a Spider-Man/Captain Marvel pairing in Marvel Team-Up #16 (Dec. 1973). [©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Now out!!! Bill Schelly’s new book!!!

FOUNDERS OF COMIC FANDOM! Profiles of 90 Collectors, Dealers, Fanzine Publishers, Writers, Artists and Other Luminaries of the 1950s and 1960s In the 1950s and ’60s, a grassroots movement arose to celebrate comic books and strips, which were becoming an increasingly important part of American popular culture. This broad group of ardent readers and collectors of comic books had little formal structure until the 1950s. As the art and literary form grew in popularity, a dedicated core began building an organized network. Profiled here are 90 people at the heart of the movement, from dealers to convention organizers to fanzine publishers. Also listed are the writers, artists, and industry professionals who have helped build an evergrowing movement of pop culture.

Schelly has done new research, and this book is ALL-NEW! Each person profiled has a photo, and the personal information is more in-depth than has appeared anywhere before. Includes EC Fandom!

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Edited by ROY THOMAS The greatest ‘zine of the 1960s is back, ALL-NEW, and focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America, featuring the archives of C.C. BECK and recollections by Fawcett artist MARCUS SWAYZE), Michael T. Gilbert’s MR. MONSTER, and more!

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ALTER EGO #90

ALTER EGO #91

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ALTER EGO #87

ALTER EGO #88

The sensational 1954-1963 saga of Great Britain’s MARVELMAN (decades before he metamorphosed into Miracleman), plus an interview with writer/artist/co-creator MICK ANGLO, and rare Marvelman/ Miracleman work by ALAN DAVIS, ALAN MOORE, a new RICK VEITCH cover, plus FRANK BOLLE, Part 2, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

First-ever in-depth look at National/DC’s founder MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELERNICHOLSON, and early editors WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, VIN SULLIVAN, and MORT WEISINGER, with rare art and artifacts by SIEGEL & SHUSTER, BOB KANE, CREIG FLESSEL, FRED GUARDINEER, GARDNER FOX, SHELDON MOLDOFF, and others, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #92

ALTER EGO #93

ALTER EGO #89

HARVEY COMICS’ PRE-CODE HORROR MAGS OF THE 1950s! Interviews with SID JACOBSON, WARREN KREMER, and HOWARD NOSTRAND, plus Harvey artist KEN SELIG talks to JIM AMASH! MR. MONSTER presents the wit and wisdom (and worse) of DR. FREDRIC WERTHAM, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE, & more!

SIMON & KIRBY and NOSTRAND cover!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #94

BIG MARVEL ISSUE! Salutes to legends SINNOTT and AYERS—plus STAN LEE, TUSKA, EVERETT, MARTIN GOODMAN, and others! A look at the “Marvel SuperHeroes” TV animation of 1966! 1940s Timely writer and editor LEON LAZARUS interviewed by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, the 1960s fandom creations of STEVE GERBER, and more!

JACK KIRBY holiday cover!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL! Big FCA section with Golden Age artists MARC SWAYZE & EMILIO SQUEGLIO, and interviews with the FAWCETT FAMILY! Plus Part II of “The MAD Four-Color Wannabes of the 1950s,” more on DR. LAURETTA BENDER and the teenage creations of STEVE GERBER, artist JACK KATZ spills Golden Age secrets to JIM AMASH, and more! New cover by ORDWAY and SQUEGLIO!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY, PART 3! DC’s Sword of Sorcery by O’NEIL, CHAYKIN, & SIMONSON and Claw by MICHELINIE & CHAN, Hercules by GLANZMAN, Dagar by GLUT & SANTOS, Marvel S&S art by BUSCEMA, KANE, KAYANAN, WRIGHTSON, et al., and JACK KATZ on his classic First Kingdom! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER’s fan-creations (part 3), and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “EarthTwo—1961 to 1985!” with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, ANDERSON, DELBO, ANDRU, BUCKLER, APARO, GRANDENETTI, and DILLIN, interview with Golden/Silver Age DC editor GEORGE KASHDAN, plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and a new cover by INFANTINO and AMASH!

“Earth-Two Companion, Part II!” More on the 1963- 1985 series that changed comics forever! The Huntress, Power Girl, Dr. Fate, Freedom Fighters, and more, with art by ADAMS, APARO, AYERS, BUCKLER, GIFFEN, INFANTINO, KANE, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, SIMONSON, STATON, SWAN, TUSKA, our GEORGE KASHDAN interview Part 2, FCA, and more! STATON & GIORDANO cover!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #95

ALTER EGO #96

ALTER EGO #97

ALTER EGO #98

ALTER EGO #99

Marvel’s NOT BRAND ECHH madcap parody mag from 1967-69, examined with rare art & artifacts by ANDRU, COLAN, BUSCEMA, DRAKE, EVERETT, FRIEDRICH, KIRBY, LEE, JOHN and MARIE SEVERIN, SPRINGER, SUTTON, THOMAS, TRIMPE, and more, GEORGE KASHDAN interview conclusion, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MARIE SEVERIN!

Focus on Archie’s 1960s MIGHTY CRUSADERS, with vintage art and artifacts

by JERRY SIEGEL, PAUL REINMAN, SIMON & KIRBY, JOHN ROSENBERGER, tributes to the Crusaders by BOB FUJITANE, GEORGE TUSKA, BOB LAYTON, and others! Plus an interview with MELL LAZARUS, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

Cover by MIKE MACHLAN!

The non-EC Horror Comics of the 1950s!

From Menace and House of Mystery to The Thing!, we present vintage art and artifacts by EVERETT, BRIEFER, DITKO, MANEELY, COLAN , MESKIN, MOLDOFF, HEATH, POWELL, COLE, SIMON & KIRBY, FUJITANI, and others, plus FCA , MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more, behind a creepy, eerie cover by BILL EVERETT!

Spotlight on Superman’s first editor WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, longtime Kryptoeditor MORT WEISINGER remembered by his daughter, an interview with Superman writer ALVIN SCHWARTZ, art by JOE SHUSTER, WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, AL PLASTINO, and NEAL ADAMS, plus MR. MONSTER, FCA (FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA), and a new cover by JERRY ORDWAY!

GEORGE TUSKA showcase issue on his career at Lev Gleason, Marvel, and in comics strips through the early 1970s—CRIME DOES NOT PAY, BUCK ROGERS, IRON MAN, AVENGERS, HERO FOR HIRE, and more! Interview with 1950s Timely/Marvel editor AL SULMAN (“personal associate of STAN LEE!”), MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and more!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

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WHE % N YO ORD U ONL ER INE! KIRBY COLLECTOR #56

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JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR (4 issues)

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BACK ISSUE #48

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BACK ISSUE #50

KIRBY COLLECTOR #57

“Unfinished Sagas”—series, stories, and arcs Kirby never finished. TRUE DIVORCE CASES, RAAM THE MAN MOUNTAIN, KOBRA, DINGBATS, a complete story from SOUL LOVE, complete Boy Explorers story, two Kirby Tribute Panels, MARK EVANIER and other regular columnists, pencil art galleries, and more, with Kirby’s “Galaxy Green” cover inked by ROYER, and the unseen cover for SOUL LOVE #1!

“Legendary Kirby”—how Jack put his spin on classic folklore! TONY ISABELLA on SATAN’S SIX (with Kirby’s unseen layouts), Biblical inspirations of DEVIL DINOSAUR, THOR through the eyes of mythologist JOSEPH CAMPBELL, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, rare Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, pencil art from ETERNALS, DEMON, NEW GODS, THOR, and Jack’s ATLAS cover!

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DRAW! #21

BRICKJOURNAL #14

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “Dead Heroes”! JIM (“Death of Captain Marvel”) STARLIN interview, Deadman after Neal Adams, Jason Todd Robin, the death and resurrection of the Flash, Elektra, the many deaths of Aunt May, art by and/or commentary from APARO, BATES, CONWAY, GARCIA-LOPEZ, GEOFF JOHNS, MILLER, WOLFMAN, and a cosmically cool cover by JIM STARLIN!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “1970s Time Capsule”! Examines relevance in comics, Planet of the Apes, DC Salutes the Bicentennial, Richard Dragon–Kung-Fu Fighter, FOOM, Amazing World of DC, Fast Willie Jackson, Marvel Comics calendars, art and commentary from ADAMS, BRUNNER, GIORDANO, LARKIN, LEVITZ, MAGGIN, MOENCH, O’NEIL, PLOOG, STERANKO, cover by BUCKLER and BEATTY!

Special 50th Anniversary FULL-COLOR issue ($8.95 price) on “Batman in the Bronze Age!” O’NEIL, ADAMS, and LEVITZ roundtable, praise for “unsung” Batman creators JIM APARO, DAVID V. REED, BOB BROWN, ERNIE CHAN, and JOHN CALNAN, Joker’s Daughter, Batman Family, Nocturna, Dark Knight, art and commentary from BYRNE, COLAN, CONWAY, MOENCH, MILLER, NEWTON, WEIN, and more. APARO cover!

Urban Barbarian DAN PANOSIAN talks shop about his gritty, design-inspired work, DANNY FINGEROTH interviews writer/ artist DEAN HASPIEL, TRACY BUTLER discusses how she produces “Lackadaisy“, plus more of MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, product and art supply reviews by JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

Discover the world of stop-motion LEGO FILMS, with brickfilmer DAVID PAGANO and others spotlighting LEGO filmmaking, a look at the history of the medium and its community, interviews with the makers of the films seen on the LEGO Club show and LEGO.com, and instructions on how to film and build puppets for brick flicks! Plus how to customize minifigures, event reports, step-by-step building instructions, and more!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 • Ships April 2011

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TwoMorrows.

Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics. (& LEGO! ) ®

ALTER EGO #101

ALTER EGO #102

ALTER EGO #103

ALTER EGO #104

Fox Comics of the 1940s with art by BAKER, FINE, SIMON, KIRBY, TUSKA, FLETCHER HANKS, ALEX BLUM, and others! “Superman vs. Wonder Man” starring EISNER, IGER, MAYER, SIEGEL, and DONENFELD! Part I of an interview with JACK MENDELSOHN, plus FCA, Comic Fandom Archive, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by SpiderMan artist DAVE WILLIAMS!

Spotlight on Green Lantern creators MART NODELL and BILL FINGER in the 1940s, and JOHN BROOME, GIL KANE, and JULIUS SCHWARTZ in 1959! Rare GL artwork by INFANTINO, REINMAN, HASEN, NEAL ADAMS, and others! Plus JACK MENDELSOHN Part II, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by GIL KANE & TERRY AUSTIN, and MART NODELL!

The early career of comics writer STEVE ENGLEHART: Defenders, Captain America, Master of Kung Fu, The Beast, Mantis, and more, with rare art and artifacts by SAL BUSCEMA, STARLIN, SUTTON, HECK, BROWN, and others. Plus, JIM AMASH interviews early artist GEORGE MANDEL (Captain Midnight, The Woman in Red, Blue Bolt, Black Marvel, etc.), FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and more!

Celebrates the 50th anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 and the birth of Marvel Comics! New, never-beforepublished STAN LEE interview, art and artifacts by KIRBY, DITKO, SINNOTT, AYERS, THOMAS, and secrets behind the Marvel Mythos! Also: JIM AMASH interviews 1940s Timely editor AL SULMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and a new cover by FRENZ and SINNOTT!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 • Ships May 2011

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 • Ships June 2011

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 • Ships July 2011

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 • Ships August 2011

TwoMorrows Publishing 10407 Bedfordtown Drive Raleigh, NC 27614 USA 919-449-0344 FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com www.twomorrows.com

All characters TM & ©2010 their respective owners.

• Back Issue! now 8x per year!

• BrickJournal now 6x per year!

• Back Issue! & Alter Ego now with color!

• New lower international shipping rates!

OTHER BOOKS FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING

STAN LEE UNIVERSE

CARMINE INFANTINO

SAL BUSCEMA

MATT BAKER

PENCILER, PUBLISHER, PROVOCATEUR

COMICS’ FAST & FURIOUS ARTIST

THE ART OF GLAMOUR

Shines a light on the life and career of the artistic and publishing visionary of DC Comics!

Explores the life and career of one of Marvel Comics’ most recognizable and dependable artists!

Biography of the talented master of 1940s “Good Girl” art, complete with color story reprints!

(224-page trade paperback) $26.95

(176-page trade paperback with COLOR) $26.95

(192-page hardcover with COLOR) $39.95

QUALITY COMPANION

BATCAVE COMPANION

ALL- STAR COMPANION

The first dedicated book about the Golden Age publisher that spawned the modern-day “Freedom Fighters”, Plastic Man, and the Blackhawks!

Unlocks the secrets of Batman’s Silver and Bronze Ages, following the Dark Knight’s progression from 1960s camp to 1970s creature of the night!

Roy Thomas has four volumes documenting the history of ALL-STAR COMICS, the JUSTICE SOCIETY, INFINITY, INC., and more!

EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE

(256-page trade paperback with COLOR) $31.95

(240-page trade paperback) $26.95

(224-page trade paperbacks) $24.95

(240-page trade paperback) $29.95

The ultimate repository of interviews with and mementos about Marvel Comics’ fearless leader!

(176-page trade paperback) $26.95 (192-page hardcover with COLOR) $39.95

Definitive biography of the Watchmen writer, in a new, expanded edition!

MARVEL COMICS

AGE OF TV HEROES

MODERN MASTERS

HOW TO CREATE COMICS

Covers how Stan Lee went from writer to publisher, Jack Kirby left (and returned), Roy Thomas rose as editor, and a new wave of writers and artists came in!

Examining the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes, featuring the in-depth stories of the shows’ actors and behind-the-scenes players!

20+ volumes with in-depth interviews, plus extensive galleries of rare and unseen art from the artist’s files!

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

(192-page full-color hardcover) $39.95

Shows step-by-step how to develop a new comic, from script and art, to printing and distribution!

(128-page trade paperbacks) $14.95 each

(108-page trade paperback) $15.95

IN THE 1970s

A BOOK SERIES DEVOTED TO THE BEST OF TODAY’S ARTISTS

FROM SCRIPT TO PRINT

FOR A FREE COLOR CATALOG, CALL, WRITE, E-MAIL, OR LOG ONTO www.twomorrows.com

TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics.

TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com

A Double-Size TripleThreat Spectacular!

Celebrating: 100 incredible issues of Alter Ego, Vol. 3!

50 years of Alter Ego fanzine—1961 to 2011! & Roy Thomas’ star-splashed 1980s decade at DC Comics!

Featuring: • The entire first issue (March ‘61) of Alter-Ego! • “The Alter Ego Story!”—annotated!

• The secret origins of All-Star Squadron—Infinity, Inc.— Arak, Son of Thunder—Captain Carrot— America vs. the Justice Society—Young All-Stars— The Ring of the Nibelung—Shazam!—and, oh yes, Secret Origins!

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL celebrates 100 issues, and 50 years, of the legendary super-hero fanzine, with twice as many pages as the regular magazine, plus special features just for this anniversary edition! Inside, editor ROY THOMAS is interviewed by JIM AMASH about the 1980s at DC, uncovering secrets behind Roy’s remarkable work of that era! Plus there’s special anniversary editions of Alter Ego staples MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA (FCA)—and ALEX WRIGHT’s amazing color collection of 1940s DC pinup babes! Starring art & artifacts by the likes of: ALCALA • AMASH ANDRU • AYERS BAILS • BAIR • BECK BELLMAN • BOYD BRUNNER • BUCKLER BUSCEMA • COLAN COLÓN • CONWAY COOKE • DEZUNIGA DITKO • ENGLEHART FOLEY • GARCIA-LÓPEZ GILBERT • GIORDANO GLANZMAN • GONZALES GUIDRY • GULACY HAMERLINCK • HOBERG ISABELLA • KANE KAYANAN • KIRBY KUBERT • LEE LEIALOHA • LUPOFF MACHLAN • MANDRAKE MANNING • McFARLANE MORRISON • MORROW NEWTON • ORDWAY PÉREZ • RANDALL ROMITA • SCHELLY SEVERIN • SHAW! SINNOTT • SWAYZE THOMPSON • WHITE WOLFMAN • WRIGHT

[All-Star Squadron, JSA, Infinity, Inc., The Ring of the Nibelung, Flash, Atom, & Green Lantern TM & ©2011 DC Comics; Spider-Man, Thing, & Silver Surfer TM & ©2011 Marvel Characters, Inc., other art elements © 2011 the respective copyright holders.]

and a whole bunch of other talented guys & gals!

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TwoMorrows Publishing Raleigh, North Carolina ISBN-13: 978-1-60549-031-1 ISBN-10: 1-60549-031-8

51995

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19 95

In The US 1

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9 781605 490311

ISBN 978-1-60549-031-1