Alter Ego #150 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ outSTANding Comics Fanzine

FACE FRONT! WE’RE CELEBRATING

95 YEARS OF

Characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

STAN LEE

82658 00104

9.95

In the USA

No.150 January 2018

Vol. 3, No. 150 / January 2018 Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck J.T. Go (Assoc. Editor)

Comic Crypt Editor

Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll

Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Proofreaders

Contents

Cover Artists

Writer/Editorial: Happy 95th, Stan! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 The Retrospective Stan Lee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Rob Smentek William J. Dowlding John Buscema & Joe Sinnott

Cover Colorist

Will Murray’s 1988 interview with the main man behind the Marvel Universe.

“Get Me Out Of Here!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21

Unknown

With Special Thanks to: Boy Akkerman Henry Kujawa Heidi Amash Guy Lawley Ger Apeldoorn Stan Lee Bob Bailey Paul Levitz John Benson Mark Lewis Al Bigley Susan Liberator Billy Ireland Cartoon Art Lortie Library (Ohio State Nancy Maneely University; Toni Bruce Mason Mendez Collection) J.L. Mast Bill Black Robert Menzies Len Brown Mike Mikulovsky David Burd Bill Morrison Nick Caputo Alan Murray John Cimino Will Murray Frankie Colletta Marc Tyler Nobleman Chet Cox David Parks Jeff Deischer Barry Pearl Sean Dulaney Joe Petrilak Justin Fairfax Jenny Robb Danny Fingeroth John Romita Florentino Floréz Derek Roulston Shane Foley Bob Rozakis Drew Friedman David Saunders Chris Gaskin Dez Skinn Janet Gilbert Anthony Snyder Grand Comics (website) Database (website) Ross Sprout James Hamilton Jeff Taylor Bonnie & Arnold Hano Ricky Terry Russ Heath Dann Thomas Tom Heintjes Gerry Turnbull Ian Hine Ted White Glen D. Johnson John Workman Jim Kealy University of Michael Kelly Wyoming (Stan George Khoury Lee Collection) Rob Kirby Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Anthony Koch David Laurence Hayley Kosaly-Myer Wilson Neil Kosaly-Myer Hass Yusuf

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Joan Lee

Ger Apeldoorn on Stan’s thankfully fruitless attempts to escape comicbooks (1956-1962).

The Second Coming Of Stan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54 Rebooting the Marvel Age in Britain in the 1970s, by Robert Menzies.

My Life In Little Pieces – Part 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65 Continuing John Broome’s offbeat “autobiography.”

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! The PAM Papers – Part 3 . . . . 69 Michael T. Gilbert presents Glen Johnson’s letters from artist Pete Morisi.

Comic Fandom Archive: Ted White On Comics, Part 4 . . . . 77 He tells Bill Schelly about interviewing Stan Lee, writing a Captain America novel, etc.

re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . 83 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #209 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87 P.C. Hamerlinck hosts Bill Black’s account of Paragon & the Captain Marvel almostrevival!

On Our Cover: After the 1970 (and, as it turned out, temporarily temporary) departure of Jack Kirby from Marvel, nobody drew panoramic panoplies of the company’s power-packed population any better than John Buscema—as witness this poster penciled by “Big John” and inked by the incomparable Joe Sinnott. However, due to lapsing licenses over the years since, we had to eliminate two of the halcyon heroes or super-villains originally shown in this tapestry, and move around the images of a couple of other stalwarts to fill their spots. Wanna know who had to be dropped? Check out the original version of this poster on p. 17 of this issue! Thanks to John Morrow for supplying this rendition of the art. Oh, and please note—no X-Men! They wouldn’t even get their own mag again till ’75! [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Above: Will the real Stan Lee please stand up—or something! Is it (left) Stan setting his handprints in concrete at Hollywood’s famed Chinese Theatre on July 18, 2017? Or—in this issue, you’ll see the original mailman Willie Lumpkin of the newspapers—“Mr. Lumpkin” in 1963’s Fantastic Four #11— even live-action Stan in postman garb for the 2005 Fantastic Four film… so here’s an undeservedly uncredited drawing from the Internet of The Man as—“The MailMan”! [Photo & illo both © the respective copyright holders.] Alter Ego TM is published 6 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Six-issue subscriptions: $65 US, $102 Elsewhere, $29 Digital Only. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in China. ISSN: 1932-6890. FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

Happy 95th, Stan!

remember well the first time I met you—on Friday, July 9th, 1965… just three days after I’d spoken to you on the phone, all the way from my hotel room on 23rd Street to your office between 58th & 59th on Madison Avenue, Manhattan.

That Friday, as I’ve oft recounted, I sneaked north over my lunch hour at National/DC to meet you to discuss the “writer’s test” you’d had me pick up on Wednesday. I was every bit as much awed as I’d been at meeting such DC luminaries as Julius Schwartz, Gardner Fox, and Joe Kubert. And when you offered me a job, fifteen minutes into that meeting—well, Superman editor Mort Weisinger would’ve had to be a very much nicer person than he was, to keep me from jumping ship after just two weeks at DC. From being severely downcast in my previous job, I went to being ecstatic about my new one—as “staff writer” for Marvel. Soon I was trying to churn out dialogue for stories in an office where gal Friday Flo Steinberg had to be constantly on the phone and Sol Brodsky was forever upbraiding artists to get their work in— while you immediately began to lean on me for things like backup proofreading, telling you where Dr. Doom last appeared, etc., until I was reassigned as “assistant editor.” I felt like the luckiest guy in comics to be standing to your left, with Sol on your right, as you went over scripts you’d written and the changes you wanted made in the artwork (along with the why). It was like Comicbook* Editing 101… no, it was like skipping that level entirely and graduating straight to a Master Class in comics writing, editing, and art direction. [*See p. 83 for explanation of spelling!] Working at Marvel then was a fabulous job—and you were a great boss! Sure, we had our arguments from time to time (which I nearly always lost), but I admired the fact you never bore a grudge. When a disagreement was over, it was over. Period. It was instantly so far in the past, it might as well never have happened. Today and tomorrow—that’s what you were all about.

That late-’60s day when you suddenly glanced left at me and announced: “They’ll never know why I fired you! It’s because of all that hair!” (I’d started wearing my blond locks a bit longer by then.) The occasion when, upon my return from a con in St. Louis, you snapped at me because I’d taken an extra day off to elope. (But soon after Flo departed, you offered Jeanie a job as your secretary.) The moment when you suddenly looked at me in a quizzical way and said, “You know—I could’ve been your father!” (True. You’re just a few months younger than my mother was.) The time when, severely depressed during a separation from my first wife in early 1973, I was screwing up, finding excuses not to come into the office, and you talked to me like a Dutch uncle… firm about my responsibilities, but very understanding about the place I was at, and eager to help me get through it. (You did, and I did.) So many more memories… good and bad, but mostly good. I’ll have to save them for my autobiography. Which will be read, understandably, by maybe .001% as many people as have read yours in either prose or comics format. You’re soldiering on—now without Joan, the rock you could always depend on—and you’re inspiring not just an old Stanophile like me but a whole new generation of comics readers and moviegoers who can feel in their bones what you’ve meant to heroic fantasy (and just plain fun) over the past three quarters of a century. You’re an inspiration to them all, Stan… and you’ve been one to me since that long-ago day when you changed my life by looking out your window onto Madison Avenue and saying in a casual voice: “So—what do we have to do to hire you away from National?” Happy 95th, Stan—and see page 83 for your present!

Bestest,

So many highlights, so many memories—personal mile-markers along the highway of my professional life:

COMING IN FEBRUARY

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FRANK THOMAS & THE HEROES OF DELL & GOLD KEY

NOW 100 PAGES! e trademark & copyright Art TM & © the respectiv

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• Phantasmagorical focus on FRANK THOMAS, Golden Age artist of Dell’s The Owl & Centaur’s The Eye, Fantom of the Fair, Solarman, & Dr. Hypno—under the watchful gaze of daughter NANCY BARDEEN & “Comic Crypt” editor MICHAEL T. GILBERT! • STUART FISCHER on the heroes (super- and action-) of Western Publishing’s Golden Age Dell Comics, plus Silver Age Gold Key and Dell! From Captain Midnight to Korak, Son of Tarzan—from Magic Morro to Magnus, Robot Fighter—from The Owl to a costumed Frankenstein, Dracula, and Werewolf—with art by MANNING • DITKO • KANE • MARSH • GILL • SPIEGLE • SPRINGER • NORRIS • THORNE • SANTO • TALLARICO • FRACCHIO • BOLLE • SPARLING • FUJITANI, et al.! (Plus some nefarious notes by MARK EVANIER!) • Plus—Part III of JOHN BROOME’s merry memoirs—FCA [FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA]—BILL SCHELLY—& MORE!!

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The Retrospective STAN LEE A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Will Murray

NTERVIEWER’S INTRODUCTION: Marvel Comics’ Stan Lee has given many interviews over his staggering 75-plus-year professional career. Often, these sessions cover the same ground. Back in 1988, I sat down for a lengthy and freewheeling interview with Stan the Man at a busy New York convention. My intention was to get behind what I thought was the façade of a public persona, but which I soon realized was a genuine human being—one not very different from many modern fans who transformed their youthful love and enthusiasm for popular books and films into a writing career. Although few could claim Lee’s astonishing influence on the global consciousness from the mid-20th century to today! The following interview—an exploration of Stan’s roots and feelings about his career—first saw print in Comics Scene 2000. As Lee moves through his 95th year, this unusually penetrating retrospective look at the one-time Master of Marvel Comics seems more topical now than it was when it was first conducted, nearly 30 years ago….

STAN LEE: I never took comics seriously. It was just a way to make a living. I was always waiting for my chance to get out of comics, and do real writing. Then, for whatever reason in the ’60s, I really was getting ready to quit, and my wife said to me, “Before you quit, why don’t you once do a book the way you’d like to do it? Get it out of your system. You’re going to leave anyway. What can they do to you?” So I tried to write The Fantastic Four differently, just to get it out of my system. This is the way I liked to treat characters. It worked! And it got so popular that [publisher] Martin [Goodman] asked for another hero. I think the next one was The Hulk, and I tried to do that a little differently. Then “Spider-Man.” By now, we started getting fan mail, and it got so interesting. I had never gotten feedback from readers before. I figured I would stay a little longer and see where this leads. Then it was like a whole new resurgence. WM: You almost didn’t get your chance. Comics were in tough shape in 1961. And only a few years before, in ’58, Marvel almost went under.

WILL MURRAY: You were the editor of Marvel Comics for 20 years before you stepped out of the relative anonymity of your given name to make a lasting impact on the field with The Fantastic Four. Why is that?

LEE: What happened was: Martin Goodman made one of the big publishing decision mistakes that was ever made. He

“The Greatest Comic Magazine In The World!!” Stan “The Man” Lee, circa 1972, nearly midway between the first issue of Fantastic Four and the date of Will Murray’s interview—plus two distinct incarnations of the cover of FF #3 (March 1962), with pencils in each case by Jack Kirby; inks by Sol Brodsky. (Left:) The rejected version—probably bounced by publisher Martin Goodman—as touched up by fan Henry Kujawa a few years back. Thanks for sending it, HK! (Right:) The printed version—doubtless a better approach, even if, as fan Ronn Foss would point out in #5’s letters page, The Human Torch, who in #3 got a fiery facelift from the lackluster rendition depicted in #1-2, is drawn with two left hands! [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

had his own distribution company, Atlas. The books were doing fantastically. His business manager talked him into giving up Atlas and letting the American News Company distribute him. Very shortly after he did that, American went out of business. We had no distribution. Martin couldn’t go back to his own company because the wholesalers, whom the distributors sent the books to, got very angry at Martin because he had left them and gone to American. He couldn’t form his own company anymore. So he had to go to DC [and its owned distributor, Independent News] and say, “Will you guys distribute me?” They said, “Yeah. But only eight books!” WM: Was that why you switched from Atlas to Marvel Comics? LEE: When we saw how well the books were starting to sell, I figured we ought to change our name and give ourselves a whole new image. So we thought a while and decided to come up with the name Marvel, because that was the name of the first book that we ever published, Marvel Mystery Comics. Also, I thought Marvel was a great word. You could make up slogans with it, like “Make Mine Marvel” and “The Marvel Age of Comics.” All that kind of corny stuff, which I’m famous for—or infamous. WM: Eventually, DC followed Marvel’s lead. LEE: DC decided to change the name of their company. They were called National Comics. Now, we came up with Marvel Comics, which kind of says something. What did they come up with? And they spent thousands and thousands on experts to research this. They came up with the great name—“DC.” “DC” has about as much sex appeal as a rusty doorknob. “I’m with DC.” Big deal.

The Three Faces (Or Rather, Names) Of Marvel (Left to right:) The original “Timely Comics” symbol, which Goodman’s comicbooks sported off-and-on circa 1942… the “Atlas” distribution symbol for all of Magazine Management, which served as a de facto comics-division logo from 1951-57… and a “Marvel Comics Group” symbol from Fantastic Four #14 (May 1963), the first month in which that name began appearing on Goodman’s line (not counting the year or so in the late 1940s when variations of the name “Marvel” had briefly adorned its covers)—pencils by Jack Kirby; inker uncertain. Stan gives artist Steve Ditko credit for suggesting and designing this box for the upper-left-hand corner of the company’s covers, with the heroes shown varying from title to title. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Despite Stan’s 1988 (and other) later remembrances, Roy Thomas vividly recalls him telling his young assistant editor circa 1965-66, when it was a much fresher memory, that in ’63 Stan himself had wanted to christen the company “Atlas,” but that it was his publisher who insisted on “Marvel.” Stan swiftly realized Goodman had made the better choice… but obviously the line’s rise to prominence, already in progress, would’ve continued either way. Is there any serious doubt that Stan would’ve soon been cover-blurbing about “The Atlas Age of Comics”? Hey, by popular definition of the term, it’s even alliterative!

WM: Once you rivaled them in sales, was it a problem staying ahead of DC? LEE: No. I don’t know why, but they never realized what we were doing in our stories that was grabbing the reader. I had a lot of friends there, and they used to tell me they’d have an editorial meeting once a month and they’d put our books down on the table and say, “Let’s see if we can figure out why the Marvel books are outselling ours.” They’d look at the covers and one genius would say, “I know why! It’s because there’s more dialogue balloons on the covers.” So the next month they would put a lot of dialogue balloons on their covers. The minute I found out about it, I took off all the dialogue balloons. It didn’t make any difference in the sales. That wasn’t what did it. But it must have driven them crazy! Then they’d say, “It’s because they use a lot of red on their covers.” So the next month we’d stop using red! We played this little game for months. They never caught on. WM: I’ve heard from old-time DC editors that they would look at Kirby’s or Ditko’s unrestrained art, and thought fans were suddenly going for what they perceived as “bad” art. So they tried to copy that. LEE: One of the toughest things in the world is really to know what bad art is, and what good art is. If you look at Dick Tracy, you would say this is not one of the world’s greatest artists. It’s kinda cartoony and awkward. But it’s wonderful art because it’s perfect for that kind of a strip. There used to be an artist named Alex Raymond who did Flash Gordon. Flash Gordon was colorful and exciting. But Raymond also did a strip called Rip Kirby. It was one of the best-drawn strips you’ll ever see. Other artists used to use it for reference. But Rip Kirby was never successful because, even though it was beautifully drawn, it was dull as dishwater. It was just nice drawings. So when you talk about good or bad art, every strip requires a certain style of art. Sometimes something that is good for one strip won’t be good for another. I’ll give you one difference in artwork it took them years to catch on to at DC. I tried to get our artists to exaggerate everything. For example, if a monster was approaching a hero or heroine, and our character is supposed to look scared like this [reacts] and our artist would draw it that way, I’d say “That’s no good. When our character is scared, I want him to look like this!” [bigger reaction] “AUGHHH! Exaggerate it! And if somebody is punching somebody, you don’t want this, [throws a weak punch] because this is what you got in the DC books. You want this! [throws Kirby-style punch] I want that arm coming out of the socket.” It’s like in animation. There are directors, animators, and in-betweeners. The director does the key action drawings. The animator does middle poses. And the in-betweener does all the little poses in between. At DC, they’d do it like the in-betweener. It’s a simple thing, but even today I don’t think they fully understand it. WM: It’s interesting how Jack Kirby flowered as an artist once he left the restrictive atmosphere at DC for Marvel. LEE: At DC also they had a lot of rules. They told the artist everything to do. The only thing I used to say was, “Be exciting. Do it your own way. You want six panels, do six. You want to make a full-page spread, do that.” Ditko, on some of the “Spider-Men,” he’d have nine panels, 12 panels, tiny little figures—a lot going on. I feel the best rule was no rules at all. Just let an artist do it the way he wants. WM: Wasn’t there more to Marvel’s resurgence than art style? LEE: Philosophically, there was another thing, and I had a big argument with Kirby about this once. We were being interviewed by Barry Gray in New York. He had a talk show. Jack and I went up

The Retrospective Stan Lee

artwork. Strangely enough, I have always been in some ways more interested in the artwork than the writing. In fact, even later on, I always served as art director even when I became editor or publisher. The artwork was the thing. It was hard for me to tell writers how to write. But it’s easier to say to an artist, “Your work is getting too convoluted. Simplify it.” Or: “Use masses in your inking more than all that line work.” Or: “Tone down your layouts” or “Give me more long shots” or whatever. Somehow it’s easier to work with artwork and it’s more fun. I am very interested in the art. My big regret is that I have never drawn the strips. I wish I had studied art a little bit more. WM: You were an artist in your early days. LEE: I was a cartoonist. In the Army, I illustrated training manuals and I did posters. But I never really worked at it after I got out of the Army.

Jack “King” Kirby and a display drawing by him of the ever-lovin’, blue-eyed Thing, probably done in the mid-1960s or so for the MMMS or other advertising purposes. The inking is so good, it’s probably by Joe Sinnott! Thanks to Mike Mikulovsky for the photo , and to dealer Anthony Snyder (www. anthonyscomicbookart) for the art scan. [Thing art TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

there. He wanted to talk to us about Marvel and how it was selling. This was in the middle 1960s. Barry said, “I understand you people are starting to pass DC.” And I said, “Well, we’re doing the best we can, but they’re such a big company and so rich, and we’re just this little company.” And Jack said, “That isn’t true, Stan! Why don’t you tell them we’re better than them. And bigger than them.” And I’m trying to shut him up. I said, “Jack, nobody likes anybody who’s bigger and better. Let them think we’re like Avis. We’re just trying harder.” And Jack never understood that. You’ve got to use a little psychology, also. WM: Why did it take you so long to flower as a writer? LEE: Well, the reason, I think, is because I was doing everything the way my publisher wanted me to. I was very much a company man. I wasn’t a rebel. “Hey, that’s the way you want ’em. You’re paying my salary. Fine.” But up to that point it was really because of the people I worked for. The industry never thought much of comics. It was a business, a way to make a buck. I’m afraid I felt the same way as they did. Once or twice I wanted to try new things, and they didn’t want me to. They used to tell me I had to not use words of more than two syllables, and if I tried anything that was a little sophisticated: “Stan, don’t do that. This is a children’s medium. Don’t write over the kids’ heads. We won’t make money. We won’t sell the books.” And I went along with it. WM: Considering that you’re known for your emotional writing, that’s amazing. LEE: Well, you can’t be emotional and so forth when you think you’re writing for young kids, or for idiots who are older but haven’t got the capacity to understand. That was the mood of the industry in those days, really. WM: Looking back, do you feel those 20 years of toiling in relative obscurity as a comics writer-editor were wasted? LEE: No. I learned a lot. I learned a hell of a lot! I learned a lot about

WM: Tell me about the creation of The Fantastic Four. In hindsight, it looked as if you were reviving and reinventing old Golden Age Timely super-heroes like The Human Torch, Flexo the Human Rubber Band, and the Blonde Phantom, giving them new twists and spins. LEE: Flexo? I don’t remember him. There was a character called Plastic Man. But I don’t know any Flexo. WM: He was a very minor ’40s Timely character. You didn’t ransack old Timely comics to create your Fantastic Four? LEE: It’s a strange thing. I have never done reference. I hate research. I never keep old books. If I wanted to go back, I wouldn’t know where to look. Even today, if I’m doing a story and I have to find something out, I will call the office and ask one of the guys at Marvel. But I’m the first guy to admit it. I liked Plastic Man. That’s a great power, and nobody was using it. So I gave Reed Richards Plastic Man’s power. The Human Torch I always felt had been a great character. We weren’t using him, so I brought him back. As for the Invisible Girl, she’s a girl so I don’t want her to be strong. I don’t Martin Goodman want her to be The founding publisher of Timely/Atlas/Marvel and Wonder Woman the rest of the Magazine Management empire, in an and punch essence-capturing painting by Drew Friedman for his people. So what fabulous book Heroes of the Comics. The color cover power should she proof Goodman is perusing is that of A Date with Millie have? I figured, #4 (April 1964), with pencils by Stan Goldberg; inker “Gee, what if uncertain. That comics title metamorphosed with #8 she’s invisible?’” I into Life with Millie, later into Modeling with Millie, as knew there have a companion title to the still-popular Millie the Model. been invisible [Painting © Drew Friedman.]

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

The Human Torch (Left:) “Human Torch” splash from Marvel Mystery Comics #32 (June 1942). Script & art credited by the Grand Comics Database to Torch creator Carl Burgos. (Right:) Although the original Torch was obviously the inspiration for Johnny Storm, the version of the hero drawn in FF #1-2 owed more visually to a more recent story: “I Am Dragoom! The Flaming Invader!” in Strange Tales #76 (Aug. 1960). Pencils by Jack Kirby; inks by Dick Ayers. Chances are the plot was by Stan Lee and the script by Larry Lieber. Thanks to Nick Caputo. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Sign Of The Four

Pulsatin’ precursors of the individual members of a fabulous quartet (on this & facing page) Mr. Fantastic (Far right:) “Flexo the Rubber Man” (the series’ actual name) was a strong and stretch-powered robot who headlined Timely’s Mystic Comics #1-4, though it seems unlikely he influenced Stan Lee; Flexo had come and gone by the time Stanley Lieber joined Marvel in late 1940. This splash from Mystic #2 (April 1940) is reproduced from the hardcover Marvel Masterworks: Golden Age Mystic Comics, Vol. 1, as penciled by Jack Binder & inked by E.C. Stoner. Writer uncertain, though the scripter in #1 had been credited as “Will Harr.” [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Near right:) Stan’s true inspiration for Mr. Fantastic, as he says, was artist/ writer Jack Cole’s wonderful Plastic Man, who’d originated in the Quality group’s Police Comics #1 in 1941. Seen here is Cole’s cover for Plastic Man #1 (Summer 1943). DC’s eight hardcover volumes of The Plastic Man Archives alone would be enough to justify its now sadly moribund Archives series. Thanks to the Grand Comics Database. Oddly, almost simultaneous with the appearance of FF #1, DC introduced the stretching Elongated Man in the pages of The Flash; both rubbery heroes would get married around the same time, too! [TM & © DC Comics.]

The Retrospective Stan Lee

The Invisible Girl (Top left:) In the 1933 Universal horror film The Invisible Man, based on H.G. Wells’ 1897 novel, Claude Rains played the title role—though in such special-effects shot as this “unmasking” scene, Rains may have provided only the voice. One shocked bystander’s timeless remark: “’E’s all eaten away!” (Left:) Will Murray wonders if Timely’s Blonde Phantom, seen on the Syd Shores-penciled cover of issue #12 (Winter 1946—actually the first issue), led to Sue Storm, later The Invisible Woman. Seems unlikely— though both were “blonde,” and both were “phantoms” in one sense or another. Thanks to the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Above right:) Stan has often given a crediting nod to the newspaper comic strip Invisible Scarlet O’Neil, whose very first daily (for June 3, 1940) is depicted. A decade later, she had her own comicbook for a short time. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

people. There was The Invisible Man, the movie with Claude Rains. All I was trying to do was think of four powers that were totally different. The Thing was my favorite. I wanted to really work on him. I told Jack I wanted somebody who turns into a monster. The other three are able to change back so it doesn’t affect them, but I wanted the Thing to be bitter because he’s a monster and couldn’t change back. WM: I’m surprised you made one of the FF a monster. You’d been scripting monster titles for years at that point. Weren’t you sick of monsters? LEE: No. But I didn’t want to treat the Thing the same way. Actually, the Thing really didn’t come into his own until issue #3 or #4, when I started to get into his personality. I think in the first issue I didn’t write him the way I was going to write him later. It took me a while to get the feeling of it. But I knew what I wanted to do with him. WM: Speaking of the monster titles like Tales to Astonish and Amazing Adult Fantasy, you seemed to write only those little 5-pagers you did with Steve Ditko. Why is that?

The Thing (Above left:) Stan liked “Things” with rocky-looking aspects to them. Perhaps the earliest example of this was his and penciler Jack Kirby’s “I Was Trapped by the Things on Easter Island!,” from Tales to Astonish #5 (Sept. 1959). Inks by Christopher Rule. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Above right:) While The Heap was probably no more than an indirect influence on bashful Benjamin J. Grimm, Stan has admitted to a fondness for the original comicbook muckmonster, who first shambled out of a swamp in Hillman’s Air Fighters Comics, Vol. 1, #3 (Dec. 1942). Seen is Ernest Schroeder’s cover for the retitled Airboy Comics, Vol. 9, #12 (Jan. 1953). In the early ’70s, The Heap was also likely Stan’s initial inspiration for Marvel’s “Man-Thing.” PS Artbooks has reprinted all his vintage stories in the three hardcover volumes of Roy Thomas Presents The Heap, still on sale. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

LEE: I think I was prouder of the ones I did with Ditko. I tried to make those the more O. Henry ones. I liked them the best. I liked working with Ditko on that stuff. He was wonderful! It’s funny. When the Twilight Zone TV show came out—and there were two other shows like it, One Step Beyond or something—I used to get letters from some of our readers. “Hey, I just saw The Twilight Zone, and they used one of your stories from issue so-and-so.” You’d always hear that stuff. WM: What about the big monster stories Kirby drew? You never signed them. Who did those? LEE: Oh, a lot of guys did ‘em. I think I only did the ones I signed my name to. But there were some that I did that I didn’t sign because I wasn’t thinking of it. But there were other writers like Ernie Hart and Robert Bernstein and Larry Lieber. I don’t remember if they were writing the big ones or the little ones, but it might have been a combination. In those days we weren’t always signing them.

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

“Sturdy Steve” Ditko as masterfully painted by Drew Friedman for his book Heroes of the Comics— and the final page of his and Stan Lee’s mini-masterpiece “The Terror of Tim Boo Ba” from Amazing Adult Fantasy #9 (Feb. 1962). Ditko has said he worked primarily from synopses provided by Stan. But y’know, even if it came inside the comic, not on the cover, we have to marvel that the Comics Code didn’t give Lee trouble over having the word “terror” in the title! Also seen are the contents-page credits for Lee and Ditko from Amazing Adult Fantasy #12 (May 1962). Yet, only three issues later, the magazine would be usurped for its final issue by a certain web-spinning teenager. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

WM: Most people think you wrote the lead fantasy stories, like “Fin Fang Foom,” even though you didn’t sign them. LEE: I did that one. If my name was on them, I did. I never put my name on anything that I didn’t write. WM: “Stan Lee” started off as a pen name for Stanley Martin Lieber, then you changed it legally. Would it be fair to say Stan Lee is a creation of Stanley Martin Lieber? LEE: Well, no. Stan Lee is the same. I didn’t want to use my real name because I thought comics were just a little kid’s stuff and I figured someday I’m going to write the Great American Novel. So I was saving my name. WM: But the true Stan Lee writing style didn’t seem to emerge until you started doing letters columns and the Bullpen Bulletins. I’m inclined to think Stanley Martin Lieber wrote all your pre-Marvel comics and Stan Lee came to the fore in the 1960s. LEE: Even though I was signing it “Stan Lee,” you could probably say it was the Stanley Lieber who was writing all the early stuff, and then I really decided to play up the “Stan Lee” for what it was worth. I didn’t think of it that way consciously, but I guess you have a point. WM: You grew up during the Great Depression. You’ve said in interviews that The Spider pulp magazine inspired your Spider-Man. You must have read other pulps, like Doc Savage.

LEE: Doc Savage I loved! WM: Did Doc influence the Fantastic Four? I’m thinking in particular of the idea of a skyscraper headquarters, which they both had in common. LEE: I read Doc Savage. I liked it. I remember a character named Monk, and Renny. I don’t remember it that well. The only reason why I put the Fantastic Four in a skyscraper headquarters was I wanted to definitely base them in New York. So I figured there were three things: They could be in a brownstone. They could be in a subterranean subway. Or they could be in a skyscraper. I picked the skyscraper. It had nothing to do with Doc Savage. WM: What other pulps did you read? LEE: There was a book called G-8 and His Battle Aces. I liked it. There was one you probably never heard of called Captain Fury. WM: Cap Fury starred in a book called The Skipper. LEE: What I remember of it was he had a boat, and it looked like a seedy, sleazy little wreck of a ship. But when he pushed a button, it turned into this high-speed, diesel-powered, fastest boat in America. WM: It sounds like Cap Fury’s name inspired Nick Fury.

The Retrospective Stan Lee

Beaten To A Pulp! (Above & top left:) Rafael M. deSoto’s painted cover for the pulp magazine version of The Spider (Feb. 1941)—and a publicity shot for the same year’s movie serial The Spider Returns, which starred Warren Hull as the masked hero. Only on the silver screen did the masked hero’s outfit have any kind of arachnid or webbed quality—which might (or might not) have served as an inspiration to Steve Ditko two decades later. Thanks to David Saunders for artist IDs on the pulp magazine covers in this section and on the following page. [The Spider images appear through the courtesy of Argosy Communications, Inc. © 2017 Argosy Communications, Inc. All rights reserved. The Spider is a registered trademark of Argosy Communications, Inc.] (Right:) The cover of the Sept. 1937 issue of Street & Smith’s Doc Savage pulp, as painted by Robert G. Harris—and a pen-&ink drawing by Paul Orban from the mag’s first issue (March ’33) which pictured Clark Savage, Jr., and his five talented buddies, including Monk and Renny, recalled by Stan Lee. [TM & © Advance Magazine Publishers, Inc., d/b/a Condé Nast.]

Don’t You Know There’s A War Comic Going On? (Above:) Lawrence D. Toney’s cover for the pulp mag The Skipper (July 1937), featuring its star, Cap Fury—above panels from Sgt. Fury #10 (Sept. 1964), which introduced the bearded sub commander then called only “The Skipper.” Later, minus the face fuzz, he became the title hero of Captain Savage and His Leatherneck Raiders. Sometimes it seemed as if there were only a handful of names, and Marvel kept moving ’em around! Script by Stan Lee, art by Dick Ayers & George Roussos (as “George Bell”). (Above right & right:) Edmund Lowe as Sgt. Quirt and Victor McLaglen as Captain Flagg are ready to exchange blows over exotic foreigner Dolores del Rio in the 1926 war “comedy,” What Price Glory? In 1988, Stan accidentally reversed the two men’s ranks, but Quirt and Flagg were clearly models for Nick Fury and his nemesis Sgt. Bull McGiveney, commencing in Sgt. Fury #13 (Dec.1964), as scripted by Stan and drawn by Kirby & Ayers. Except the two Sarges really hated each other! Thanks to Barry Pearl for the two comics scans. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; Skipper cover © the respective copyright holders.]

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

LEE: I know what influenced me in some areas with Sgt. Fury. I was influenced by a movie. It didn’t have a whole squad, but it was called What Price Glory?, with Edmund Lowe and Victor McLaughlin. They played Sergeant Flagg and Captain Quirt. They were always fighting. They loved each other, but they were always fighting. I tried to get that feeling into the squad of Sgt. Fury. WM: If you loved The Spider, surely you read The Shadow. LEE: It’s a strange thing. I don’t ever really remember reading The Shadow. I knew there was a Shadow. Either I didn’t like it or I just never got around to buying it. But The Shadow I don’t remember. The Spider I read when I was 8 years old. He punched people in the nose and left a spider mark. It was so dramatic. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Actually, Stan would’ve been ten, not eight, when The Spider debuted in 1933.]

Along Came Three Spiders… Once Spidey was created, it sure didn’t take long for him to “go commercial”! Seen at left at a Providence, Rhode Island, con in November 2016 are ye ed Roy Thomas (on left) and his pal, comics dealer John Cimino, comparing three of the earliest. From right to left, in order of appearance: the Ben Cooper company’s 1954 (!) Spider Man costume, which despite its yellow tones bears a more than passing resemblance to the one Marvel would introduce in 1962… Ben Cooper’s 1963 Spider-Man costume, licensed from Marvel at a time when the wall-crawler was unknown outside the pages of a handful of comics issues… and the Spidey costume Marvel paid a professional seamstress to make in either 1964 or ’65, to be worn by an actor in a Macy’s Parade in New York City. The parade appearance didn’t come off, and Stan (via production manager Sol Brodsky) gave that outfit and three related ones to new assistant editor Roy, who proudly wore it to Halloween parades and parties, in photos taken in the Marvel offices, and (in 1972) at Marvel’s soldout Carnegie Hall show. Talk about vintage Spidey goodies! 2016 photo by Dann Thomas.

WM: What else did you read? LEE: I was a big science-fiction fan. I read almost every sciencefiction pulp for a while. Amazing. That was a pulp. Then there was one that was done in Reader’s Digest size that later became Analog, but before it was Astounding. Astounding was wonderful. John Campbell was great. Strangely enough, I was never really into sword-and-sorcery. It was Roy Thomas who gave me the idea to do Conan. I had heard of Conan, but I didn’t know anything about it. Roy said, “We ought to do Conan. We ought to do Conan.” Just to shut him up, I said, “Do Conan.” It turned out great. I loved horror stuff. Dracula. Frankenstein. I know I was influenced by Jekyll and Hyde and Frankenstein when I did “The Hulk.” I loved Lovecraft. WM: Obviously, H.P. Lovecraft influenced Dr. Strange. LEE: Not the way you first implied. I mean, if I were coming up with a name, I wouldn’t go back and look at Lovecraft and find a name. I loved the words, like Liggoth and Ugulug. I love words! WM: Who are your favorite writers?

This “Foom” Was No “Friend Of Ol’ Marvel”! Stan suspects he may have written the entirety of the infamous giantmonster yarn “Fin Fang Foom” in Strange Tales #89 (Oct. 1961), on sale around the same time as Fantastic Four #1; but there are no credits for writer or artists on this splash for the 13-pager; so maybe Larry Lieber or someone else provided the actual script from Stan’s plot. Pencils by Jack Kirby; inks by Dick Ayers. So when does Fin Fang Foom get his own movie, as Marvel’s answer to Godzilla? Thanks to Barry Pearl & Nick Caputo. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

LEE: Oh, I had so many. Believe or or not, Shakespeare. When I was a kid, I didn’t understand a lot of what he was writing, but I loved the language. I used to read it out loud. I love the Bible, and I’m not a very religious guy. But I loved the way it was written, just the phraseology. I used to think, “Who was this writer? I wish I could get

Gee, I Could’a Had A G-8! G-8 and His Battle Aces was a 1930s pulp set during the First World War that had the code-named hero and his squadron fighting lots of colorful Hun (i.e., German) enemies, including ones garbed as skeletons. The cover of this February 1936 issue was painted by Fredrick Blakeslee. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

The Retrospective Stan Lee

Pulp Is As Pulp Does! (Above:) Vintage covers of two science-fiction pulp magazines Stan read: Amazing Stories (the first) and Astounding Stories (the best). [© the respective copyright holders.]

him.” When I did “Thor,” I remembered you’d put a certain verb before the noun in the Bible. I loved Mark Twain. There was a guy named Mark Hellinger who was great. I was a corny guy. I loved Dumas. I loved Rostand. I loved Cyrano de Bergerac. I loved The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. I loved Edgar Allan Poe. I loved whatever all kids loved. I wasn’t that different. In terms of popular writers, Edgar Rice Burroughs, [Arthur] Conan Doyle, and H.G. Wells. Burroughs was much better than he was given credit for. I read the Mars books as well as Tarzan. The way he would do a chapter and then leave off and go to something else and then leave that off— there were always cliffhangers—he had 4 or 5 cliffhangers going at

Masters Of The Mystic Arts H.P. Lovecraft (seen at left) was the major supernatural-horror writer of at least the first half of the 20th century, with most of his work appearing in the pulp Weird Tales—and his proper names, among other things, were an influence on young fan Stan. Seen above, from the Ditkoplotted-and-drawn “Dr. Strange” story for Strange Tales #116 (Jan. 1964), are the first uses of the Stan-coined names “Dormammu,” “Agamotto,” and “Hoggoth,” with “Vishanti” having debuted on the preceding page (“Valtorr” had been introduced in #115). Lovecraft had pioneered such names as “Yog-Sothoth,” “Nyarlathotep,” “Azathoth,” and of course “Cthulhu.” Thanks to Barry Pearl. [Panels TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

the same time. He would keep coming back to them and I’d think, “How can he keep it all in mind?” Of course, one of my all-time favorites was Conan Doyle. Sherlock Holmes to me is like as great a thing as you can get. He’s the ne plus ultra super-hero, because a super-hero should be believable. There was never a more believable character than Sherlock. There are still people today who go to look at Baker Street in London, and they have this society who discuss him. He was “alive.” Doyle’s writing was so great. Not only were his plots wonderful, but his characterization. If he was just telling you Sherlock Holmes went to the store, and he entertained someone at home, the dialogue! This guy drew characters with words that were fantastic. To me, Conan Doyle was a real master. WM: Anyone else? LEE: There was a guy named Leo Edwards. He wrote Poppy Ott and Jerry Todd. They were wonderful! You know what was great about them? They were humorous. They were like the Hardy Boys, but they were funny. Edwards did something that probably gave me the idea for the Bullpen Bulletins. You never saw this in a book—these were hardcover books—at the end of the book there were letters pages, and they were fascinating! I’d love to get one of those books!

Cause & Effect—Marvel Style (Left:) Picking up a copy of the Frank Frazetta-covered 1969 Lancer paperback Conan of Cimmeria led Marvel associate editor Roy Thomas to contact the Robert E. Howard estate for permission to adapt that once-pulpmag hero (from Weird Tales) into comics for the first time. He already had permission from Stan and publisher Martin Goodman to license some swordand-sorcery hero for Marvel… ultimately, it became Roy’s choice which one. (Right:) The result, some months later, was Conan the Barbarian #1 (Oct. 1970), with cover by Barry Smith & John Verpoorten, and script by RT. [TM & © Conan Properties International, LLC.]

WM: What entertains Stan Lee these days? LEE: Oh, I like adventure. I like things with a touch of fantasy. I don’t like them when they are too crazy or too far out. I like good drama. I hate depressing movies, though. On television, I will not watch the illness of the week or the tragedy of the week, these mini-series things. I have been too busy and it’s to my everlasting regret, but I only read newspapers and trade magazines now, and I only watch movies on TV. I don’t have time to watch the other shows.

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

What Did Stanley Martin Lieber Read?

Mark Hellinger William Shakespeare

Mark Twain

Or maybe it’s just Christopher Marlowe in disguise?

Née Samuel Clemens, author of Huckleberry Finn, et al.

wrote newspaper columns in the style of O. Henry short stories.

Alexandre Dumas Author of The Three Musketeers, Man in the Iron Mask, et al.

H.G. Wells

Edmond Rostand Author of Cyrano de Bergerac—even if Cyrano was an historical personage.

Omar Khayyam 11th-century Persian poet—from whose Rubaiyat (as translated by Edward FitzGerald) Stan would recite to his 1960s staff.

Edgar Allan Poe Classic poet and short story author.

Edgar Rice Burroughs

Author of Invisible Man, War of the Worlds, et al.

Author of books starring Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, et al.

Arthur Conan Doyle and his creation, one of Stan’s favorite fictional characters—Sherlock Holmes, as portrayed on the screen in Stanley Lieber’s day by Basil Rathbone. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

WM: They say your favorite artist in the days before Jack Kirby was Joe Maneely, who died tragically just a few years before you started The Fantastic Four. If Maneely had lived, where would he have fit into the Marvel Age of Comics?

Poppy Ott & Jerry Todd Two popular series of children’s books back in the day, both written by Leo Edwards—and very influential on Marvel’s letters pages and Bullpen Bulletins. [© the respective copyright holders.]

LEE: I think if Joe Maneely had not died, he would have been the stellar artist in the business today. He was one of the fastest artists I ever knew, and among the most versatile. He did war stuff. He did weird. He did historical stuff. He did Westerns. Probably the one thing he didn’t excel at was romance, although he could do

The Retrospective Stan Lee

it. He also did comedy. In fact, he did a newspaper strip with me called Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. When he died, Al Hartley took it over. He [Maneely] did comedy. He could do anything. He was so fast, he could do a strip almost without penciling it. He’d draw the borders and he’d put a little stick figure here and there, and then he’d take his pen or his brush and start inking. He was incredible. He was also the nicest guy you could ever find. WM: It boggles the mind to think but for that fluke, Joe Maneely might have been the originating artist on the FF. Or even “Spider-Man.” LEE: If Joe had lived, we would have been doing a lot of different magazines, because I would probably have come up with other types of books for Joe to do. Very often I would come up with books for a certain artist. I would have an artist in mind for a book. I don’t know if I would have done Sgt. Fury if Jack hadn’t been available. Jack was the one guy I thought of for Sgt. Fury. WM: I’ve always wondered about your choices on who inked Jack Kirby. For example, Joe Sinnott, a very moody inker, inked the first Dr. Doom story in Fantastic Four #5. Did you choose him because his style fit that story, or was that coincidental?

Joe Maneely (Top center:) in 1958, in a publicity shot taken in conjunction with his and Stan’s comic strip Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs—courtesy of Nancy Maneely—and a “what if” creation. Fan-artist Jeff Deischer customized a Maneely panel from a 1950s issue of the Timely/Atlas comic Spaceman to give one impression of what “Iron Man” might’ve looked like had he been designed by Maneely instead of Kirby and/or Heck. [Art TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

LEE: It was probably a coincidence. The strange thing about it, I cared much more about who inked Kirby than Kirby did. We used to discuss in the office the fact that Kirby never seemed to care who inked him. This is a guess on my part, because I never asked him, but I think Kirby felt his style was so strong that it just didn’t matter who inked him, that his own style would come through the way he wanted. WM: Did you have a preferred Kirby inker? LEE: I liked all of our inkers. I always thought that Ayers was very good on Kirby’s stuff. Sinnott I felt was wonderful. I liked Sinnott and Ayers and Reinman and Brodsky even, because all four of them could pencil also. Reinman was good because he was also a painter, and he inked in masses like a painter. WM: Tell me about working with Steve Ditko on “Spider-Man.”

Joe Sinnott somehow wound up inking Kirby’s pencils on Fantastic Four #5 (July 1962) after George Klein (probably) had embellished #1-2 and Sol Brodsky #3-4… but then “Joltin’ Joe” was too busy with Treasure Chest, et al., to do another one till #44 (Nov. 1965). Ye Editor chose the above panel from #5 to display because while, as a fan, he recognized from page 1 that the inking was even better than in the mag’s first four issues, it wasn’t till he saw this splash with The Human Torch bursting into magnificently rendered fiery flight that he realized just how good this new “mystery inker” was! Script by Stan Lee. Thanks to Barry Pearl for the scan. The photo of Joe is from 1961. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

LEE: Steve Ditko was the best. He and Kirby both were so much alike. They were like Maneely. They were two of the greatest guys to work with you could ever want. If there was ever anything that Steve did that I felt ought to be done differently, or that it didn’t work out right, I would pick up the phone: “Steve, could we just do this over or change it?” He would do it in one minute. Quick. Uncomplainingly. It was done. He wasn’t temperamental. He is

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

“There Are So Many…” Pages from five scripts of which Stan was particularly proud. (Clockwise from top left:) Splash page of Fantastic Four #50 (May 1966), the climax of “The Galactus Trilogy,” with art by co-plotter Kirby & Sinnott… Silver Surfer #1 (Aug. 1968), pencils by John Buscema, inks by Sinnott… Spidey’s adrenal triumph in Amazing Spider-Man #33 (Feb. 1966), plotted & drawn by Steve Ditko… Thor advises a bunch of hippies not to “drop out” in Thor #154 (July 1968); art by Kirby & Colletta… and the final page of “Brother Take My Hand!” from Daredevil #47 (Dec. 1969); art by Gene Colan & George Klein. But, as Stan himself says in the interview: “There are so many….” Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

the guy who designed the trademark we had in the upper left of our covers. I thought it was brilliant the way he came up with that. I can only say good things about him. WM: So what brought about your parting at the height of Spider-Man’s popularity? LEE: I don’t know. But after a few years something happened between Steve and me—and it was all on Steve’s part. I mean, I felt the same, but he got angry. He was angry about something and I never knew what it was, really. Specifically. He never told me. He came in one day and he did say, “Stan, I don’t like the way you are putting in the sound effects.” I put in all the sound effects. “You’re ruining my artwork with those sound effects.” “Fine, I’ll leave them out.” I never wanted to get Steve angry. I left them out. A little later he’d come in and say, “Stan, I don’t like the plots you’re doing.” “Plot them yourself, Steve.” Whatever he didn’t like, I said, “Fine. I’ll change it.” But it didn’t help. I could sense he was unhappy about something. Then, one day—I don’t even think he told me himself—I think I heard from somebody that he had said he wasn’t going to do any more Spider-Man. And that was it! WM: Unlike Kirby, Ditko didn’t like others inking in his pencils. LEE: He preferred inking his own, yeah. No one could

The Retrospective Stan Lee

Silence Is Silver (Age, That Is!) While Stan Lee never totally abandoned sound effects in the Ditko-drawn Amazing Spider-Man, despite the artist’s complaint about them, he did use them more sparingly there than in, say, Fantastic Four. Cases in point: panels from FF #44 and ASM #30, both cover-dated Nov. 1965. Scripts by Stan Lee; FF inks by Joe Sinnott. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ink Steve Ditko as well as he could ink himself. Nobody. He was wonderful! And he was an absolute joy and delight to work with. And he was a nice guy. I didn’t know him that well because he didn’t come to the office that much. He worked at home and he was a very private person. I think he still is. WM: Of all the comics you’ve scripted, does any stand out as your favorite? LEE: I really don’t know. I don’t remember everything I’ve written. There might be one that I would love that I would answer if I remembered what it was. But there are so many stories. I liked the Galactus trilogy. I loved the Silver Surfer that I did with Buscema. I loved that “Spider-Man” story where he is lifting up the thing in the sewer, whatever the hell that was. There was a “Thor” story that nobody remembers where he is lecturing a bunch of hippies that they shouldn’t be hippies. There was a Daredevil story about a blind guy that I loved. There are so many....

LEE: One. I needed a villain very quickly for a Fantastic Four, and I came up with the name Diablo, which I thought sounded great. It sounded like the Devil. I said, “Gee, Jack, you can draw this guy all black and scary and mysterious-looking.” And then I realized I didn’t know what to do with him. Jack drew the guy. I couldn’t think what power he had or how to use him. But the book had to be drawn quickly because it was due to go to the engravers in a few days. I don’t even remember what the story is now, but I know I wasn’t too proud of it when I wrote it. And I wish I hadn’t come up

WM: It sounds like you don’t look back much. LEE: You know the only time I look at my old stories? When I am signing autographs and a kid will put a book in front of me. I’ll say, “Did I write that? It looks good.” I have a few books at home, but I couldn’t even find them. They’re buried in closets. WM: Which of your characters stand out as the most innovative? LEE: It’s tough to say. I’d like to think they’re all innovative. Spider-Man is probably the most successful, so I’ve got to be proud of him. I have a very warm spot in my heart for The Silver Surfer, because I have a chance to give vent to a lot of my corny philosophy in that strip. I like Thor, Dr. Strange. Whichever one I think of, I suddenly decide, “Gee, I like that one.” I never think much of the Fantastic Four, but the other day I was reading some old Fantastic Four books and I read them as though I had nothing to do with them. I thought, “Gee, these are great!” So I suddenly think those are good. WM: Did you ever create a character you didn’t like?

Diablo Take The Hindmost! Diablo, who made his debut in Fantastic Four #30 (Sept. 1964), probably wasn’t half as bad as Stan remembers him, as witness this page drawn by Kirby & Chic Stone… but he wasn’t half great, either. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

“Go To The Ant-Man, Thou Sluggard…” It always seemed to A/E’s editor that penciler Jack Kirby, at least, did a good job of giving the sense of scale and proportion that was so necessary to the “Ant-Man” stories, as per this splash page from Tales to Astonish #39 (Jan. 1963). Plot by Stan, script by Larry Lieber, inks by Dick Ayers. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

with that, because that was dumb. WM: “Ant-Man” certainly wasn’t among your most successful creations. LEE: I’m going to tell you what I think is the reason “Ant-Man” never became one of our top sellers or had his own book. We had him in Tales to Astonish. I loved Ant-Man, but the stories were never really successful. In order for Ant-Man to be interesting, he had

to be drawn this small next to big things, and you’d be getting pictures that were visually interesting. The artists who drew him, no matter how much I kept reminding them, they kept forgetting that fact. They would draw him standing on a tabletop and they would draw a heroic-looking guy. And I’d say, “Draw a matchbook cover next to him, so we’d see the difference in size.” But they kept forgetting. So when you’d look at the panels, you thought you were looking at a normal guy wearing an underwear costume like all of them. It didn’t have the interest. WM: The role of comics creator has changed radically from when you first entered the field. LEE: I think that we people in comics are very lucky because we have fans. In the early days there were no such things. I used to do a little radio work in the early days, and I would talk into that empty microphone and I’d wonder, “Is anybody listening?” When I used to write comics years ago, you wonder, is anybody reading them? You never got a fan letter. And today, to be in a field where here are conventions where you can go and talk to the people you are writing for, and you get mail…. I mean, this is better than the novelists. This is better than newspaper writers. This is better even than screenwriters. I think we are very lucky to be in this field. I hope all the people appreciate it. I sure do! WM: At your peak, you were one of the most prolific scripters in comics. Do you miss that?

Strip For Action! (Above:) Spider-Man daily for Sept. 23, 1988. Pencils by Larry Lieber; inker uncertain, but may well be Floro Dery. Thanks to Art Lortie. (Below:) Sunday strip for July 31, 1988. Art by Floro Dery. Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Retrospective Stan Lee

Hail, Hail, The Gang’s All Here! The original penciled and inked versions of the 1970s mighty Marvel poster which was utilized for the cover of this issue of Alter Ego. Thereon, licensed heroes Conan the Barbarian and Doc Savage had to be replaced and the images of Werewolf by Night and Captain Marvel moved to fill a bit of empty space. Pencils by John Buscema—inks by Joe Sinnott. Thanks to Al Bigley, Shane Foley, & George Khoury. [Most characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; Conan TM & © Conan Properties International, LLC; Doc Savage TM & © Advance Magazine Publishers, Inc., d/b/a Condé Nast.]

John Buscema at the All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention in White Plains, NY, June 2000. Thanks to Joe Petrilak.

LEE: No, because I was working so damn hard. I made up so many, many plots in my life—probably as much as anybody who’s ever lived—and I got tired of doing it. By the time I became publisher, I said, “Thank God I don’t have to dream up any more stories!”

You know what I do miss now? What I love to do, because it comes easy to me, is get somebody else to draw a strip and give it to me to put the dialogue in. I could do twenty pages in a day. That’s fun. It’s like doing a crossword puzzle. There are the panels in front of you. Very often you don’t like what the story is, and you say, “I’m going to find a way to make it good.” In the later days, I did that with Kirby a lot. Most of the plots, he had much more to do with than I did. When he did give me the artwork, a lot of times they were not the way I would have wanted to do it. So I would change them in the copy and the story ended up not being what I’m sure Kirby expected. It was fun doing them. But I don’t miss the sitting and dreaming up the plots. WM: I understand you work differently with Larry Lieber on the syndicated Spider-Man strip. LEE: It’s a funny thing. I do it now the old-fashioned way. I write a complete script and I give it to Larry or to whoever does the Sunday pages. They draw it and they send it back to me to proofread before it goes to the syndicate. I always find things to change. My own story! I’ll read a balloon and think, “I should have said it this way.” Cross it out and have it relettered. Every story at Marvel I wrote I edited myself, and I was probably tougher on them than another editor would have been. I always rewrote them. If there had been time

to read it again, I probably would have found more things, but there was never time. WM: What motivates Stan Lee?

Stan ’Nuff said!

LEE: Greed. WM: Can’t be just that. LEE: I don’t know. I like to work and I like people. One reason I don’t like to write is that it’s such a lonely thing. You are by yourself. I love what I’m doing now. We’re talking. I’m a very gregarious person. WM: When you look back at your long career, what gives you the most satisfaction? LEE: You know, it’s a funny thing. And this sounds like a self-serving remark, but it not only goes for me but it goes for everybody in comics. So many people come up to me and say, “Stan, I want to thank you for your stories. Your books have changed my life.” Or: “They’ve made me decide to do this or that.” Or: “They’ve made me interested in this.” I have a feeling you can be a novelist who’s written a best-selling novel and as many people won’t come over to you and say, “I want to thank you for being such an influence on my life.” I think it’s something we in the comic book business should appreciate and feel good about, because in our own crazy way we seem to affect a lot of people and their lives. We’re important to a lot of people.

Will Murray Photo courtesy of the author.

Will Murray is the author of some 80 books and novels, featuring characters ranging from Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., to King Kong. Currently he writes The Wild Adventures of Doc Savage for Altus Press. With Steve Ditko, he created the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl.

A 1988 Interview With The Man Behind “The Marvel Age Of Comics”

STAN LEE Checklist [This checklist is adapted from the online edition of the Who’s Who of American Comic Books 1928-1999, established by Dr. Jerry G. Bails and viewable at www.bailsprojects.com. Last entries to the site were made in October 2006; the checklist covers material printed through the end of 1999. Names of features that appeared both in comic books of that name and in other magazines as well are generally not italicized. Stan Lee is the source of some data herein. Unless some special notation is made, Stan is assumed to be editor of all the actual comics material in this checklist; unless otherwise stated, all credits are for Stan Lee as writer or co-writer.] Name & Vital Stats: Stan Lee (nee Stanley Martin Lieber; legally changed) (b. 1922) – editor, writer, publisher Pen Names: Stan Lee (until legal name change; date uncertain); Neel Nats; S.L. Henkle (with Vern Henkle) Family in Arts: Brother: Larry Lieber. Relatives: Abraham Goodman; Arthur Goodman; Jean Goodman; Martin Goodman; Robert Solomon Member: Comics Magazine Association of America – vice-president/secretary 1979-80 Print Media (Non-Comics): Editor: Anthology The Ultimate Hulk 1998 (short story collection, with Peter David); writer Secret behind the Comics 1948; Golfers Anonymous 1961; How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way 1978 Animation: writer [for Marvel/Depatie-Freleng] Fantastic Four 1979; producer (for Gaz Entertainment) The X-Men 1992; production consultant (for Krantz) Spider-Man 1967; various executive/producer capacities, including sometimes narrator (for Marvel-Sunbow) The Incredible Hulk 1982, Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends 1982, The X-Men 1988 Performing Arts: (as actor, often playing himself): film Comic Book Confidential 1988; film Mallrats 1995; film The Ambulance 1990; TV The Trial of The Incredible Hulk 1989 - (as consultant & writer, live-action) TV Generation X 1996; TV The Amazing Spider-Man 1978 – (as executive producer, live-action) TV Captain America; TV Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 1998; (narrator) radio Fantastic Four 1975; TV Incredible Hulk animated series 1980s; video The Comic Book Greats 1991-92; (producer) film Blade 1998; speaker and lecturer at campuses and conventions, from latter 1960s to present; (writer) film Deathcathlon 2000 1998 Honors: comic fandom’s Alley Award, best editor & writer (6 straight years) 1963-68; Eisner Award Best Finite Series 1989; Eisner Hall of Fame Award 1994; Inkpot Award (San Diego Comic-Con) 1974 Syndication: Amazing Spider-Man (daily & Sunday) for Register & Herald Tribune Syndicate 1976-85; Cowles Syndicate 1985-86; King Features Syndicate 1986 to present; Howdy Doody (Sunday) 1950 for United Feature Syndicate; The Incredible Hulk (daily & Sunday) for Register & Tribune Syndicate, 1978-80; Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs (daily) for Chicago Sun-Times 1951-52; My Friend Irma (daily) for Los

Poetic Justice SPECIAL NOTE: We’d announced for this issue an interview with Bonnie Hano, who served as Stan Lee’s secretary for three years in the 1950s, and her husband Arnold Hano, who worked at the sister company Magazine Management—but that piece got itself printed in TwoMorrows’ own Jack Kirby Collector #69 (Fall 2016)—and we highly recommend you seek it out there. That printing, however, was slightly abridged, and one thing referred to there but not depicted was the above poetic inscription Stan wrote for Bonnie when she left his employ; it was scribed in a copy he gifted her of the novel The Harder They Fall by Budd Schulberg (which was also made into a movie starring Humphrey Bogart). Thanks to the Hanos and to David Laurence Wilson.

Angeles Mirror Syndicate, 1951-52; various features (ghost writing), dates uncertain; The Virtue of Vera Valiant (daily & Sunday) for Los Angeles Times Syndicate 1976-77; Willie Lumpkin (daily & Sunday) 1960s Promotional Comics: Adventures of the Big Boy (also editor) for Big Boy Restaurants, 1956-57; comics (also editor) for General Foods, U.S. Social Security Agency, Red Cross, U.S. War Bonds; introduction for Superhero Catalog BOOKS Reprinting Marvel Comics: Pocket Books: The Incredible Hulk 1979 (syndication album reprint)

Simon & Schuster: (primarily chose material, wrote framing material) Bring on the Bad Guys 1976; Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty 1979; Marvel Super-Heroes 1979; Marvel’s Greatest Superhero Battles 1978; Stan & Lou—Who’s On First? Origins of Marvel Comics 1974; Son of Stan and Lou (TV’s “Hulk”) Ferrigno mug for Origins of Marvel Comics 1975; Superhero the cameras—maybe at the premiere of the Women 1977

2003 film Hulk. They shared a cameo therein as security guards. As stated, Jerry Bails’ online Who’s Who, which went into stasis at his death in 2006, did not carry any listings past 1999, since it was intended as a 20th-century reference source… so Stan’s many 21st-century film cameos are not mentioned here. But they’ll all be in Roy Thomas’ & Taschen’s upcoming book on Stan Lee!

Tor Books: The Amazing Spider-Man 1992 Note on Comics Career: Briefly set up shop with Ken Bald, late 1940s, to do outside work

The Retrospective Stan Lee

John Romita (Left:) A photo taken in 1953, during John’s U.S. Army days, when John was “moonlighting” by drawing “Captain America.” The guy with him is his kid brother. Courtesy of JR.

John Romita drew all but one of the “Captain America” tales in the mid-1950s hero revival, and recalls Stan’s name as writer being on at least some of those scripts. Most likely, that would’ve included the “return” story in Young Men #24 (Dec. 1953). However, despite the online Who’s Who listing Stan as author of “Cap,” “Human Torch,” and “Sub-Mariner” yarns from that period, it’s at least unlikely he scribed all the “Torch” or “Cap” stories— and we know for certain that a number of the “Sub-Mariners” were scripted by artist Bill Everett, and one by Paul S. Newman—so you need to take those particular checklist entries with a granule of salt. Repro’d from Roy T.’s bound volumes. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[NOTE: We have elected to eliminate various paperbacks, hardcovers, and trade paperbacks to which Lee wrote introductions.] COMICBOOKS (Mainstream U.S. Publishers): Marvel/Timely: Adventures into Weird Worlds 1953; Alice the Little Girl Ghost 1958; Amazing Adult Fantasy 1961-62; Amazing Adventures 1961; Amazing Fantasy 1962; The Angel (pencil) 1992; Ant-Man 1962-63; Apache Kid 1950-56; Astonishing Comics 1957; Astonishing Tales 1973; The Avengers 1963-66; Awful Oscar 1949; backup text feature in Captain America Comics 1941 (his first professional work), Apache Kid 1956; Black Rider 1951, Dippy Duck 1957, Georgie 1952, The Gunhawks 1973, Hedy of Hollywood Comics 1952; Kid Colt Outlaw 1956, 1962-64; Matt Slade Gunfighter 1956-57; My Friend Irma 1952; Outlaw Kid 1955-56; Patsy Walker 1958-59, 1962, Rawhide Kid 1955-58, 1960+; Western Kid 1956; Wyatt Earp 1956; Battle 1952-53; Black Knight 1955-56; Black Marvel 1941-42, Black Rider 1951; Blonde Phantom 1946-47; Buck Duck 1952; Captain America 1942-49, 1953-54, 1964-71;

Captain Marvel 1967; Cartoon Kids 1957; The Challenger 1941-42, Chamber of Darkness 1969; Chili 1952-59; Complete Mystery 1948-49; Cowboy Action 1955; Crazy 1974; The Crusader 1955; Daisy and Iggy 1952-53; Daisy and Marvin 1969-70; Daredevil 1964-69; Defenders of the Earth (with Flash Gordon, Phantom, and Mandrake) 1987; Della Vision 1955, The Destroyer 1941 (beyond?); Dippy Duck 1957; Dr. Dingbat 1952; Dr. Strange 1963-66, 1972-74; Fantastic Four 1961-72, 1980, 1986; 1996; Father Time 1941; fillers 1953-64; Floop and Skillyboo c. 1942-43; Frankie Fuddle 1949; Frenchy Rabbit c. 1943-44; Gallery of Villains 1964-65; Georgie 1952; Giant-Man 1963-65; Gobby Stan Lee & the Green Goblin 1957-58; Gunsmoke John Romita Western 1956, 1960-63; Hanover and His circa late ’60s or ’70s. Gals 1953-54; Harvey 1970; Headline Hunter 1941; Hedy Wolfe 1952, 1958-59; Homer Hooper 1953; Homer the Happy Ghost 1955-58; Human Torch 1953-54, 1962-65; Human Torch & the Thing 1964; Hurricane 1942; The Imp 1942; Incredible Hulk 1962-69; The Inhumans 1967-68; Iron Man 1963-67; Jack Frost c. 1941-42; Journey into Mystery 1952-64; Justice Comics 1953 (in #37); Ka-Zar 1970-71; Kathy 1962-64; Kid Colt 1958-65; Life at Midville High 1953; Linda Carter, Student Nurse 1961-63; Little Lenny 1949; Little Lizzie 1949; Little Zelda 1956; Love Romances 1958, 1962; Man Comics 1952; Marvel Age 1991; Marvin Mouse 1957-58; Mary Jane Parker 1992; Meet Miss Bliss 1955; Melvin the Mixed-up Ghost 1955-58; Melvin the Monster 1956-57; Men’s Adventures 1953; Menace 1953; Millie the Model c. 1945-65; Miss America 1947; Mitzi 1949; Momma and Poppa Ghost 1955-58; Montgomery Duck 1952; Monsters on the Prowl 1971; My Friend Irma 1950-55; My Girl Pearl 1955-58; My Own Romance 1953; Mystery Tales 1953; Mystic 1952-53; Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 1965-67; Not Brand Echh 1967-68; Outlaw Fighters 1955; Patsy and Buzz 1958; Patsy and Hedy 1958-62; Patsy Walker 1958-65; Patsy’s Pal Nancy 1958; Patsy’s Pals 1958-59; Pearl’s Pearls of Wisdom 1955; Pinky Lee 1955; The Rabbit and the Fox 1949; Ravage 2099 1992; Rawhide Kid 1960-64; Riot 1956; Rockman 1941-42; Rusty 1948; Savage Tales 1971; The Secret Stamp 1940s; Sergeant Barney Barker (filler) 1956; Sgt. Fury 1963-66; She-Hulk 1980; Shorty and Peaches 1953; Silver Surfer 1967-70, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1988; Simple Sally 1957; Snafu 1955-56, Snappy the Ghost Dog 1955-58; Solarman 1989-90; Spider-Man 1962-72, 1984, 1995; Spider-Man and Daredevil 1997; Strange Tales 1951-63; Strange Worlds 1958-59; Sub-Mariner 1947, 1953-55, 1965-68; Suspense 1950-53; Tales of Asgard 1963-67; Tales of Suspense 1959-63; Tales of the Marines 1957; Tales of The Wasp 1964; Tales of The Watcher 1964, 1968-69; Tales to Astonish 1959-64; Teen-age Romance 1961-62; texts 1941-84, 1986, 1992; Thor 1962-71, 1987, 1991-92; Tower of Shadows 1969; TV Daze 1955; Two-Gun Kid 1958-65; Two-Gun Western 1956; Uncanny Tales 1952; War Action 1952; War Adventures 1952; The Watcher 1975 (reprint); Western Outlaws 1956; What The—?! 1991; When My Friend Irma Was a Girl 1953-54; The Whizzer 1941-42; Wild Western 1953; Willie the Wise-Guy 1957; The Witness 1940s; World of Fantasy 1956-59; World of Suspense 1956-57; Wyatt Earp 1956, 1958-60; The X-Men 1963-66; X-Men: Heroes for Hope 1985 (for famine relief); Yellow Claw 1956; Young Allies 1940s; Zelda the Witch 1955-58

The ultimate collection of Stan Lee rarities!

THE STAN LEE UNIVERSE is the ultimate repository of interviews with and mementos about Marvel Comics’ fearless leader! Co-edited by ROY THOMAS and DANNY FINGEROTH, this tome presents numerous rare and unpublished interviews with Stan, plus interviews with top luminaries of the comics industry, discussing his vital importance to the field he helped shape. Direct from Stan’s personal archives, you’ll see: •R ARE PHOTOS, SAMPLE SCRIPTS AND PLOTS, and PERSONAL CORRESPONDENCE (between Stan and such prominent figures as JAMES CAMERON, OLIVER STONE, RAY BRADBURY, DENIS KITCHEN, ALAIN RESNAIS, and Sinatra lyricist and pal SAMMY CAHN)! • Transcripts of 1960s RADIO INTERVIEWS with Stan (one co-featuring JACK KIRBY, and one with Stan debating Dr. Fredric Wertham’s partner in psychological innovation and hating comics)! • Rarely seen art by legends including KIRBY, JOHN ROMITA SR. and JOE MANEELY! • Plot, script, and balloon placements from the 1978 SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, including comprehensive notes from Lee and Kirby about the story, plus pages from a SILVER SURFER screenplay done by Stan for ROGER CORMAN! •N otes by RICHARD CORBEN and WILL EISNER for Marvel projects that never came to be, and more! (176-page trade paperback with 16 COLOR pages) $26.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-029-8 • Diamond Comic Distributors Order Code: APR111201 • Digital Edition: $8.95 NOTE: The Digital Edition (which is included free when you order the Print Edition) include 16 EXTRA FULL-COLOR PAGES of rare Archive Material, not found in the Print Edition.

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The cover of Marvel UK’s Avengers #96, which featured The Avengers, Dr. Strange, and Conan the Barbarian. Artist unknown. Thanks to Robert Menzies. [Marvel art TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; Conan TM & © Conan Properties International, LLC.]

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“Get Me Out Of Here!” STAN LEE’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962) by Ger Apeldoorn

rom the mid-1950s, comicbook sales were down across the board. Whether it was because of the anti-comics crusade led by Dr. Wertham (as most surviving artists recall) or if the rise of television was a factor (as some modern historians have suggested) or maybe even because there were no super-heroes (which seems to be the feeling among some Silver Age fans), many companies were struggling to find an audience after the introduction of the Comics Code at the turn of 1955. Add to that the 1957 downfall of distributor American News Company (which distributed Martin Goodman’s Timely comics line) and the 1956 bankruptcy of Leader News (which had MikeRoss, Mainline, and EC among its clients), and the decimation of the comics market was clear. Many companies were forced to reduce their page rates, allow some artists to work on smaller paper, and find other cost-saving methods. Many artists were no longer able to make a living doing comics and left the field. Goodman’s Timely comics were the beneficiary of this, picking up some of the best artists for peanuts. But Timely also cut down on its production costs, which meant the coloring in their books was often dull and uninspired. New talents entering the field were advised to find a better career, since the whole

comics business was walking on its last legs anyway. So it’s no surprise that, over at Goodman’s, editor Stan Lee was looking for ways to get out of this ghetto. Some of his supporting Stan Lee editors from the early 1950s had as editor of Timely/Atlas in 1954; already left (or may have been laid said date is verified by the wall of off). Hank Chapman had left for cover proofs behind him. At this Arizona to start a career as a travel point, Martin Goodman’s comic book line was riding high; but writer and photographer (though the end of good times loomed, he kept writing war stories for thanks to Dr. Fredric Wertham, DC into the ’60s). Don Rico had Senator Kefauver’s Senate stepped down from his position as subcommittee investigating “the editor of the war titles and would causes of juvenile delinquency,” soon move to California to pursue and other factors. Thanks to Ger other options, and “Patsy Walker” Apeldoorn for all photos and art teen-humor editor Al Jaffee had accompanying the article, unless likewise decided his luck lay otherwise indicated. elsewhere. Jaffee: “I remember all the efforts Stan Lee made to spread his talents into media outside of comic magazines. Of course, one must keep in mind that comic mags were in trouble at that time because of Congressional investigations and Dr. Wertham’s accusations. We were all looking to have a plan ‘B’ in case comicbooks became verboten.” The most desired escape route was to sell a newspaper strip, a medium that was much more respected than comicbooks and had the potential to pay a lot better. “A successful syndicated comic feature,” says Jaffee, “offered long-term security as well as the freedom to work at home instead of suffering rush-hour commuting.” He himself succeeded in selling his panel Tall Tales to the Herald Tribune Syndicate in 1959; it ran weekdays and Sundays for five years. Although not all of Lee’s efforts centered around selling a newspaper strip, a lot of them did. As we shall see, he had various degrees of success and misfortune with those, until, circa spring of 1962, something happened that changed everything. But we’ll get to that eventually....

Enter Toni Mendez Al Jaffee The one-time Timely writer/artist’s Tall Tales daily panel, one of his tickets out of comic books, lasted from 195763—but his real ticket to ride was Mad magazine, for which he originated and drew “Mad Fold-Ins” for more than six decades! [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

To sell his newspaper strip ideas, Stan Lee first persuaded Martin Goodman to create a separate division of his Magazine Enterprises (the by-now official name of Goodman’s comics and magazine empire), in order to exploit the talent and material available to the company through its comics division. Timely Illustrated Features found and handled contracts for various premium/giveaway comics, employing some of the freelance and staff talent available (including, of course, Lee himself). Under the same banner, he also hired artists to do samples of his various comic strip ideas. And, to sell those, he looked up comic strip agent Toni Mendez.

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

Clay Murdock, V.P. There is no record of Stan Lee’s first contact with Toni Mendez, which was probably by phone. It seems that the first strip he tried to sell was a soap-opera concept called Clay Murdock, V.P., with art by Vince Colletta. Later letters reveal that the subject was an ad agency, a sort of Mad Men without the retro sarcasm. Quite likely, that profession was chosen because of the opportunity for lots of luscious photo models to make an appearance. Similar set-ups had been used by Rip Kirby in several storylines, and it seems well-suited for romantic adventures, much like the later Apartment 3G. Sadly, no visual material from this proposal remains. It would be interesting to see what Stan Lee would have done with this pre-Two-Gun Kid, pre-Daredevil member of the Murdock family. Mendez set to selling the strip, which she usually did by calling whoever was in charge at a syndicate, doing a verbal pitch, and asking if the material could be sent to them. On July 24, 1956, she sent a telegram to Harry Baker of the Chicago Sun-Times Syndicate confirming Toni Mendez just that. Not much later, on August 2, the first response to the feature came back. Harry and Larry liked it, but as drawn by one of her clients, Steve Canyon creator Milt Caniff, for a volume of cartoons presented in the 1950s to President Dwight Eisenhower. [© the respective no sale. They loved the art and thought the story “read copyright holders.] well.” They also thought Stan Lee was the artist and Vince Colletta was “merely” an employee, which may As she writes in the autobiographical book entry above, have been because Clay Murdock was run through Timely Mendez had started out as a dancer. Later a member of the Illustrated Features. Unfortunately, they did not think the theme American Theatre Wing Hospital Center, she recruited cartoonists of the proposed strip fit into the Sun-Times program. Despite that to give chalk talks for hospitalized servicemen; this led to the first negative reaction, the Sun-Times would later become the first creation of the National Cartoonists Society. As trouble-shooter for newspaper to buy a Stan Lee strip. the NCS, she gained experience that allowed a segue into a career Next, Mendez sent the proposal to Harold Anderson of (as Toni Mendez, Inc.) handling business affairs for cartoonists and Publishers Syndicate. This would begin a long association between eventually branching out to also handling writers and illustrators. Lee and Anderson, culminating three years later in the sale of When Stan Lee contacted her in 1956, she can’t have been doing Willie Lumpkin. In her letter, Mendez called the feature “the best that very long; but she already had an impressive client list, which continuity strip I have seen in a while.” And this from the woman included Steve Canyon artist Milton Caniff. She also branched out who represented Milton Caniff! Harold Anderson was less to become a literary agent, both for fiction and non-fiction authors. enthusiastic. Editorial Research Director Philip Steitz wrote directly Later on, she would also represent former comicbook artists such to Stan, telling him they had sent the proposal to their senior as Al Jaffee, David Gantz, and Bob Oksner and cartoonists such as writer and continuity editor, Allen Saunders, along with a set of Arnold Roth, Howie Schneider, and Irving Philips. Based in New comicbooks “written” by Stan Lee (presumably romance books York, her client list included artists who produced some of the best illustrated by Vince Colletta; Stan was at that time mostly signing strips and columns of the early ’60s (and beyond). Stan Lee was a only Western and kid humor books) to ask for his expert advice. perfect fit. Saunders was the writer of the comic strips Mary Worth, Steve Mendez continued working her agency well into the 1990s. Roper, and Kerry Drake, and possibly the “inventor” of the whole After her death, her correspondence was left to Ohio State Cartoon soap-opera comic strip genre. That didn’t bode well for Stan. Library, not coincidentally also the home of the Milton Caniff And indeed, Saunders didn’t like the strip as it was; and, after Collection (and death mask). The university has carefully listed the a few letters to and fro, he agreed to meet with Stan to explain his contents of the files and made those lists available online. Anyone reasons. On September 12, 1956, Harold Anderson wrote to Mendez researching comics will find a wealth of information there, not about his personal view. He apologized for the delay and the only in the Toni Mendez Collection, but also in other donations. confusion and suggested they all meet up in New York at the next A couple of years ago, I ordered photocopies of everything to do meeting of The Comics Council. He also mentioned that Stan had with Stan Lee or his proposals. Although the personal collection offered “two or three” other artists to draw the feature, so maybe of Stan Lee himself is at Wyoming University and many of the part of the problem was the perceived quality of the artwork. The rarities there were covered by Danny Fingeroth and Roy Thomas Newspaper Comics Council was an organization set up by Toni in their 2011 TwoMorrows volume The Stan Lee Universe, the Mendez herself in 1955, and included most of the same people correspondence and samples in the Toni Mendez Collection often who were in the National Cartoonists Society, which was more of show a completely different and sometimes more desperate view of a social club. They wanted the Council to be a forum to discuss Lee’s efforts to find something better to do with his life than write mutual concerns, exchange information, identify trends, and and edit comicbooks all day. formulate mutual projects. And, of course, they were a perfect place This article will cover those efforts one by one, will give you for Toni to meet the editors. the behind-the-scenery look at his two better-known comic strips, Apparently the meeting didn’t go well for Stan and Toni, Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs and Willie Lumpkin, and will show and tell you because soon afterward she sent the package on to King Features. about some of the projects that didn’t make it.

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

That syndicate responded more favorably, but demanded some changes. On December 26, 1956, Clay Murdock was sent again. But it was to no avail. They replied quickly and shortly that the strip did not “fit into our picture.” After one more try, to the Chicago Tribune-New York News Syndicate, the idea was dropped. In the meanwhile, Stan Lee had also tried to interest Mendez in another Vince Colletta property. At Timely, he had been editing From Marvel Tales Annual the humorous girl comics Millie the Model #1 (1964). and Patsy Walker for over ten years. To support a proposal to turn those properties into a newspaper feature, he supplied her with a lengthy document about the success of these two series. The model for these books was the successful radio/TV series license My Friend Irma, but that wasn’t included, because it was not a property owned by Magazine Enterprises [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Paragraphs in business letters and memos quoted at length in this study are indented for easier reading]: STATISTICS: While print orders may vary and are somewhat correct, we can safely say that each issue sells in excess of a quarter of a million copies. Millie the Model is a monthly publication, while A Date With Millie, a new title, is presently bi-monthly and may shortly go monthly. Patsy and Hedy is published monthly, Patsy and her Pals quarterly and both Patsy Walker and Miss America (starring Patsy Walker) are bi-monthlies. Assuming that each mag is read by at least three gals before it’s destroyed or lost (a very modest assumption, the number is probably higher), that would indicate that the Patsy Walker group of titles has a readership of more than one million sevenhundred thousand per month, or approximately 21,000,000 gal readers a year (in the 8-to-16 year age group). Millie and A Date With Millie presently average upwards of one million one hundred thousand readers per month, or 13½ million gal readers a year, in the 8-to-16 age group also. In a handwritten note Stan added: “P.S.: Both Patsy Walker and Millie the Model have been published regularly & successfully for more than ten years!”

Allen Saunders and a signed original of his popular comic strip Mary Worth, as drawn by Ken Ernst for Sept. 24, 1970.

All You Need Is Love This splash page of a story by Stan Lee (writer) and Vince Colletta (artist) for Timely/Atlas’ Love Romances #78 (Nov. 1958) shows the level of art to which Clay Murdock, V.P. would have aspired. Although Colletta often employed artists to “ghost” his penciling, he could definitely draw a beautiful woman—and his delicate inking tied everything together. In the 1960s, he would be popular with Marvel readers as inker of Jack Kirby’s Thor. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Despite such a glowing write-up, Toni didn’t pick him up on it. By the way, Millie the Model’s main artist, Dan DeCarlo, was trying to sell his own version (with a different name) as a newspaper strip at the same time without Stan’s help. When that didn’t work out, he teamed up with Stan, hoping for a better result. But more on that later.

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

comics. It seems to me that Maneely had found his niche in that genre. Some people (among them such comics-history luminaries as Mark Evanier and “Doc” Michael Vassallo) have suggested that Maneely might have gone on to become a major artist of the Marvel Universe had he lived beyond the age of 32; I personally believe that, given half the chance, he would have chosen a career as a humor artist, maybe even joining his friend John Severin at the Mad imitation Cracked. In Toni Mendez’s correspondence we can follow the rise and fall of Stan Lee’s first outing as a newspaper strip creator. Although Maneely’s death and tinkering by the syndicate made it lose a lot of its fun towards the end, the first few months are gorgeous and unjustly forgotten.

Don’t Call It A Teenage Crush! As Timely’s editor, Stan Lee probably wrote the cover text for both Millie the Model Comics #67 (March 1956) and Patsy Walker #65 (July 1956); art by Dan DeCarlo and Morris Weiss, respectively. We doubt Stan had any idea that, over the decades, Patsy would graduate to being a super-heroine called Hellcat in the comics—and later the best buddy of the super-powered Jessica Jones on a Marvel/Netflix “TV” series! [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

In the meantime Stan wasn’t finished with Vince Colletta or soap-opera strips. But first...

Mr. Lyons’ Den Yeah, yeah, I know. The first comic strip Stan Lee sold, about a group of Cub Scouts and their den mother, was called Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. But it started life as Mr. Lyons’ Den and was supposed to be a bit of a family sitcom with the Cub Scouts thrown in for extra interest. And that was not the only change it was going through. In Mendez’s files there are two strips with this name. But soon after, the name (and potential audience) of the strip was changed.

The first mention of this idea is in a positive note by Rebel L. Robertson, director of public relations of the Boy Scouts of America National Council, addressed to Stan Lee himself. Apparently Stan had submitted the idea to the BSA in the hope that they would support it and have their members petition newspapers to pick up the strip. In fact, this effort went on all through the run of the strip, with various forms of frustration. Accompanying that letter was a long and detailed critique by George Frickel of the Cub Scouting Service; it had many suggestions Lee later included. The letter was addressed to his offices at Timely, indicating that all of these extracurricular efforts were done through or with the help of Martin Goodman’s Magazine Enterprises, even though none of the later contracts describes any sort of payment to anyone but the writer and artist. Robertson indicated his enthusiasm for this project and offered his organization for any technical advice Stan might need. Frickel’s memo hinted at some of the problems that such an association might bring: To: Rebel Robertson From: George C. Frickel

Stan Lee had created the strip specifically to be drawn by Re: COMMENTS CONCERNING STAN LEE’S COMIC his favorite artist of the 1950s, Joe Maneely. Since joining Timely STRIP, “MR. LYONS’ CUBS” Comics in the late ’40s as a freelancer, Maneely had drawn just about every genre they produced: Western, war, horror, scienceYou asked yesterday for some comments from the Cub fiction, romance, jungle, and even Bible stories, always in a clear Scouting Service and our advisor in Editorial in regard to the and dazzling style. In the mid-’50s he had even expanded his cartoon strip, “Mr. Lyons’ Cubs.” range by showing he could produce funny comics as well, for Lee’s color Mad imitations Crazy, Wild, and Riot. For Riot #6 (cover-dated June 1956) he produced a spot-on parody of the popular newspaper comic strip panel and comicbook series Dennis the Menace, written (and signed) by Stan himself. Immediately after that, Stan created his own Timely version of the precocious child, called Melvin the Monster. I don’t know if that was Life With Lizzie the impulse that led to Lee Sometime after My Friend Irma ended its newspaper run (see p. 42), Stan Lee and Dan DeCarlo joined forces on another creating a Cub Scouts strip “dumb-blonde” strip—which may or may not be the one that Ger Apeldoorn mentions DeCarlo trying at one point to sell on with Maneely, but the latter his own, before he and Stan teamed up again. When the artist sent the above and other left-over samples to his biographer had drawn a lot of kids’ Bill Morrison, he appended this note: “Bill: This ‘Life with Lizzie’ is a strip that Stan Lee and I tried to sell to the syndicates— no luck. Year—around 1960.” [© Stan Lee & Estate of Dan DeCarlo.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Dennis Was A Menace— Pascal Was A Rascal—But Melvin Was A Monster! (Left:) Panels from Lee & Maneely’s “Pascal the Rascal” parody of the hit comics panel Dennis the Menace, from Riot #6 (June 1956). (Right:) The following month, Melvin the Monster #1 debuted. Maneely had the art style down pat, but Melvin was a truly mean kid, which the newspapers’ Dennis definitely was not. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

understanding of the Cub Scouting program—what it is and how it operates, and who is involved. I feel we could be of help in the development of this strip. 2. Unless this is done the strip as it is now stands leads toward a Junior A Scout idea, which is something we want to bend away from. Sam Traughber and I looked these over and felt that the idea of such a cartoon strip to be in the newspapers was swell from a relations standpoint. However, we feel the artist will want to be very careful and clarify all policy and points covered in his strips. The following are some suggestions we would make: 1. The cartoonist should come talk to us in the Cub Scouting Service to get an

3. A false relation of the program is developed. Perhaps the title should be “MRS. Lyons’ Cubs,” with the Den Mother being the central figure and the man in the act being the Cubmaster. The theme of the color cartoons tends toward the Webelos den or the Scout idea rather than Cub Scouting. It shows the man bidding the boys good night, which is definitively not part of the Cub Scout program. Dens meet in the afternoon and Cub packs in the institution at night with

Wyatt Earp #3 (March 1956)

Adventures Into Weird Worlds #26 (Feb. 1954)

Stan Lee & Joe Maneely

Sub-Mariner #41 (Aug. 1955) Thanks to Art Lortie & Bruce Mason.

as caricatured by Maneely (Stan’s the one with the cigar, no doubt unlit) for the Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs press kit in 1958— framed by Timely/Atlas covers drawn by Maneely and probably “scripted” by editor Lee. [© Estate of Joe Maneely.]

Black Knight #5 (April 1956)

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

Scouts). When the strip was finally turned into pure Cub Scouts strip (even changing its name to Cub Scouts in some papers), Stan was not able to connect his gags specifically to that subject and what he was left with was a kids’ strip without Dennis’ menace.

Not A Happy Camper! The above daily from the time when the strip was still titled Mr. Lyons’ Den may or may not be one of those referred to by George C. Frickel in his memo, but it does show a woman, not in “uniform,” referring to a Cub Scout “meeting.” The “Lyon’s” spelling is probably an error. [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

parents. (Editorially the word “reliant” is misspelled—it should be “reliant.”) 4. In the black and white strips, which I have numbered for reference, we note that No. 1 appears to be all right and is a humorous incident. No. 2 perhaps the reaction of the Den Mothers and mothers throughout the country would be that the woman in the picture should be wearing a Den Mother’s uniform since she refers to her meeting. In No. 3 the implication is that Cub Scouts go camping, which is definitively not the policy. No. 4 is a very humorous incident and No. 5 tends to emphasize the Scoutmaster idea again. Of course, this could be a Webelos den with the assistant Scoutmaster working with the Webelos Cub Scouts, but that idea would need to be gotten across. The Cubmaster does not work directly with the boys, as this strip would lead one to believe. No. 6 leads open to believe that the Cubmaster is going to meet with the boys in a den meeting, whereas he is involved meeting with the parents and the Cubs at a pack meeting in the institution, not in a home. 5. Another comment would be that the Cubmaster is very rarely seen in shorts. 6. We note that the emblems of Scouting are shown rather than the emblems of Cubbing. Perhaps a Den 1 flag or pack emblem could be shown.

Comic historians should note that Lee is listed everywhere as the artist, even though it seems the samples did have a credit for Joe Maneely as well. That is how it went in those days, folks. Most people could not be bothered to see the difference.

As for the spelling of the word “reliant”—I say potato, you say potatoe. And anyway, Robertson spells it the same way both time! Stan Lee was then introduced to Don Brigen of the Public Relations office of the BSA, who proved to be an enthusiastic collaborator, with a style not dissimilar to Lee’s own. Stan wrote to him on August 15, 1957, to thank him for all the pamphlets he had sent: “By now I feel I am almost in a position to offer my services to a lecture bureau as an authority on Scouting!” But his real reason for writing was revealed later in the letter, when he asked Brigen for a written statement mentioning that the Boy Scouts of America would cooperate in making the strip as accurate as possible. It was to be his greatest promotional tool in getting the strip sold. When that letter arrived, it was sent on to E.B. Thompson of King Features Syndicate, with whom discussion had apparently been opened previously. King Features was one of the biggest and most important syndicates, with star comic strips such as Beetle Bailey, Blondie, Flash Gordon, and The Heart of Juliet Jones, almost all ending up in the nationally distributed Puck Sunday comics section. They also had the popular Hi and Lois, so they may not have been looking for another family strip. In his letter Brigen suggests that part of the strip could be used to do a promotion by creating a special award for outstanding achievements by kids across the country, as a way to promote the values of the Boy Scouts of America.

The whole idea is fine. I would suggest that these comments would be related to Mr. Lee with the invitation to him to discuss with us the program and policies so that his strip would be of the best, but right. I am sure that Bud Bennett and Marlin Sieg would also be interested in making comments upon the strip before it is approved. George C. Frickel, Jr. I don’t know if Stan Lee ever got to visit the headquarters of the BSA in New Brunswick in New Jersey, but he can’t have been too thrilled that so many people were willing to “give comments.” In fact, positively worded as they are, they point towards a deeper problem with the strip. Set up as a family strip with a Scouting background, it was marketed and soon identified as a Cub Scouts strip. The role of the father was reduced and the title changed to Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. But, as Mr. Frickel so clearly intuits, Stan had little or no knowledge of the Cub Scouts (or probably even the Boy

You Say “Hi”—I Say “Lo” This color panel from a 2015 Hi and Lois Sunday, by the offspring of creators Mort Walker & Dik Browne, shows that the strip hasn’t changed much since its 1954 debut—when it became pre-existent competition for Lee & Maneely’s prospective Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. [TM & © King Features Syndicate.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Get ’Em Up, Scout! This Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs daily shows, at least visully, the strong Cub Scouts tie-in Stan was banking on to generate readership. Art by Maneely. [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

This idea might even have originated from Stan himself, but when the deal was finally made this never materialized. Getting a promotion like that off the ground takes a lot of effort, and apparently no one was really interested in making it. Instead, the often-dropped third panel of the Sunday strip was used for material relating to a “Cub Scouts Scrap Book.” As was to be expected, King Features passed, so the whole package was sent to Robert Cooper of the Chicago Sun-Times Syndicate (which was owned by Field Enterprises, the syndicate for strips as diverse as Steve Canyon, Mary Worth, and Pogo). By now, Lee had decided to change the format and name, but he hadn’t executed it everywhere. Although the reply was positive, Cooper noted that some of the dailies were still called Mr. Lyons’ Den. He added that he was “most certain the Sun-Times” would wish to syndicate Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs, but that he would have to see more material before making a firm commitment—at least three Sundays and four weeks of dailies. On October 3, a full month of strips were sent to Cooper by Stan Lee himself. At Mendez’s suggestion he had only the first week inked, which saved a lot of time. In his own style he added: “Probably one of the most unnecessary lines ever penned is: ‘I sincerely hope you like the strip.’—But I sure do!” He also gave his telephone number at Magazine Enterprises, where he could be called any weekday except Wednesdays and weekends, when he was at home. Apparently, even back in the ’50s, Stan held one day a week aside to write his scripts (although I do not know if he already did that standing up, as he did later). A day afterward, he added that he’d also sent a model sheet for Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs, clearly mentioning the name of the artist. This was to be Joe Maneely’s chance to break out of comics as much as his own. Cooper’s response took a bit longer than expected, but by the end of the month a deal was made, and both Stan Lee and Joe Maneely were now newspaper strip creators. A contract of representation was made with Toni Mendez, Inc., on October 30, 1957, and a fuller contract between Stan Lee and Field Enterprises was fully signed November 27. It should be noted that Lee signed the contracts as Stanley Lieber, the first time I have seen a full autograph of his birth name, which at some stage he legally changed to “Stan Lee.” All contracts are made with with Stanley Lieber (“hereforth to be called Stan Lee”). The contract with Field Enterprises, Inc., gives Lee 50% of the monies made after deduction of (separately named) costs, with a minimum guarantee of $1200 per four-week period. His contract with Toni Mendez, Inc., stipulates that 10% of

that amount is to be paid to the agent by the syndicate directly for as long as the agreement stands or is continued. If the sales drop below $7200 (50% of which should go to Lee), the author is entitled to terminate the contract unless the syndicate pays the difference between the amount received and $3600. That’s three times as much as the guaranteed amount, but the syndicate also has the option to accept the termination, so one would be foolish to risk it. There is also mention of what would happen in the event of Stan’s death. The syndicate had the right to continue the feature, but had to pay the representatives of Stan Lee his normal percentage (after deduction of all costs, including the wages of the new artist) up to $400. The starting date of the feature would be February 10, 1958, and it would launch dailies and Sundays the same week. On November 4, Lee entered in a separate agreement with Maneely, which gave him 50% of all monies received by Stan Lee, minus operating costs, as long as he was the artist on the feature. The length of the contract was set at five years, unless both parties agreed to dissolve it. In case of Lee’s death, Maneely was to receive his normal percentage of the monies received for six months. And in case of Maneely’s death, his wife would receive the normal half of the monies paid out, minus the cost of a new artist. That became relevant further on. Even before the contracts were signed, Sun-Times representatives shopped the new strip around. The first reactions weren’t encouraging. On November 5, Robert Cooper tried to put a positive spin on it as he lists the first reactions. The first of his representatives, Fred Dingman, reported considerable interest, but he had not yet made any concrete sales. The second one, Irwin Smith, was so down on the project that he needed a private peptalk. Smith’s main problem seemed to be that he couldn’t sell the strip because it wasn’t really clear at whom it was aimed. In his private report (which Robertson sent along) he wrote: I think we have a good thing here, but are missing the beat. All we have is little boys dressed in cub uniforms doing things any kids—cubs or not—might. There are certain things each den and each pack is supposed to do during the season. Projects, trips, a Blue and Gold Banquet, overnight hikes—or is that Scouts? Some of the things that happen are really funny. Try taking a Cub Den to a circus sometime. Den 4, pack 14 of Waltham went one time. I’ll never forget it.

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

All In Color For A Time Time for a bit of color! Stan & Joe’s color Sunday for May 5, 1958; thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo. [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

Junior Scouts sometimes—in weaker moments—invite Cubs to visit their meetings: Air Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorer Scouts. Boy, can the Cubs give them a time! I think we should appeal to Cubs, Den Mothers, Den fathers, Pack Leaders, Den Chiefs and such to send in episodes from their experiences. “Thanks to Mrs. Lyon, Mother of Den 2, Foxville, Ill.” Perhaps we could send something to contributors. Shouldn’t Chester (and wouldn’t a nickname be better?) be developed into a little devil any mother would be happy to have for her own? Shouldn’t there be something outstanding about him, rather than having him be just another little boy? Why not let him be a brain? The exceptionally bright children are coming into their own these days. Let him be anything but average! It seems to me Cubs are a good subject, why not stay at it? Why not, indeed? In the absence of a clear theme, many editors viewed the strip as just another kids’ strip, with nothing new except the clothes they were wearing. In fact, that’s what the strip would end up like at the end of its run. Still, the Chicago Sun-Times was committed and the launch was on its way. Too bad neither the Philadelphia Bulletin nor the Philadelphia Daily News liked the strip. According to an interview in Editor and Publisher (a trade magazine for newspaper editors), the Philadelphia-born artist had worked at the art department of both before embarking on his comics career. The E&P article (reprinted in Twomorrows’ Stan Lee Universe) was a boost as well. On December 13, 1957, the sales totaled $ 421.50. From the complete

sales list, it is clear that the Chicago Sun-Times, the New York Mirror and the Boston Globe took the brunt of the costs. I am including the whole list here so readers can try and find samples, if they wish— especially those rare color Sundays by Joe Maneely. The only color samples we have—welcome as they are!—are from Dr. Michael J. Vassallo’s collection of Maneely’s own tearsheets. Sales to Date: Houston (Texas) Chronicle D & S $30.00 per week San Antonio Express News D & S $20.00 (Increases $2.50 D and $2.50 S after 6 mo.) Chicago Sun-Times D & S $100.00 Boston Globe D & S $70.00 New York Mirror D & S. $125.00 Augusta (Ga.) Herald and Chronicle D & S $8.50 Ft. Wayne (IND.) Journal Gazette D & S $15.00 Arkansas Democrat (Little Rock) D & S $12.00 Jackson (Miss.) Clarion Ledger D & S $6.00 Dallas News D & S $35.00 So, not really a big start. Still, the sales representatives kept plugging away. On December 17, Robert Cooper reported positively to Toni Mendez about the article in Editor and Publisher, before commenting on the loss of the Washington Star and the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Fortunately, the Milwaukee Journal had been added,

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

another big paper that was known for giving new strips a chance. (Later, it would also carry Willie Lumpkin from the beginning until the end.) Cooper also added a small note about the payment for Photostats, which seems to relate to a bill Stan Lee had sent the Sun-Times for some of the Photostatting work on the feature. Three weeks later, Stan was still waiting for his money (or, more likely, Martin Goodman of Magazine Enterprises was) and wrote off a letter: TO: Toni Mendez FROM: Stan Lee RE: Expenses DATE: 1/7/58 Toni, at the time of this writing, I still haven’t received the $73.40 from the Sun-Times for the photostat bill we sent them. I am attaching to this memo the bill from the Diners Club for the lunch we had with Jim Collings. It totals $35.24 Finally, I’d appreciate your mentioning the cost of the plane tix to Chicago for Joe and myself. They totaled $195.20! Inasmuch as Joe is kinda broke, I footed the entire bill. Now, if we are EXPECTED to pay for it, ok—I’ll say no more about it. But it seems to me that since Bob ASKED us to come—and he told me, when we left, that he was grateful that we came because it saved HIM the trouble of flying to New York—I’d imagine it’s reasonably fair to assume the Syndicate would pay for the flight. I’d like to know definitively, because if they DON’T pay for it, I wouldn’t be so anxious to oblige in the future! Thanx.

Mendez translated that into a very polite letter to Cooper. I included it above because it shows how Stan handled these conflicts with his usual charm (though whether or not he was ever reimbursed for the air flight, I’ve no idea). Two days later Stan wrote to Cooper to tell him about the trip to Chicago, where he and Maneely had also had their pictures taken by a Jim Collings (and wouldn’t we love to find those!). He also mentions having spoken to Don Bringen of the Boy Scouts of America about doing something in the cities they didn’t sell. Maybe the local Boy Scouts Council in each of these cities could be notified about the strip and of the fact that Dr. Schuck, the head of the Boy Scouts organization, had approved of it. He suggests proofs could be sent to them to show to their local newspaper editors, but it doesn’t seem the syndicate representatives allowed this intrusion upon their responsibility. In February the strip was launched as planned. The next few months were spent trying to get more attention paid to it. Don Bringen wrote an accounting of his actions to Lee, in a candid and breezy style: Stan Lee..... the one and only..... With due respect I bring to your attention just some of the things that are being done locally by the B.S.A. to help sell that new phenomenon (mispelled?), Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs..... after your doubting Thomas attitude, I take great joy in being nasty, vulgar, warped, and gnarled enough to throw these at you... and I am, too. Seriously, my good friend, Rebel, just came back from the midwest and went out of his way to tell me of the great success Mrs. L. is having all over Texas, and the areas that the major Texas newspapers cover. Seeing as how [name unclear] is not necessarily the biggest fan, this was a great move in the right direction..... believe me..... Then, too, Bud [Bennett, Director of Scouting], concerned over your worries as I reported them to him, has really put the punch behind some strong letters to local Councils where he has personal friends... and here are just a few of the answers he received... I will need these back because they must be filed here..... Bud also asked that we get ahold of some more reprints... he has used up all we have and needs more..... this morning, his secretary and I (and she’s a real doll) scoured through the mailing rooms, the storage cages and several desks trying to find more reprints..... unfortunately, we only got a few. I could order these from Toni, but knew you would have more power than I.....

Working For Peanuts? These Lee & Maneely dailies, while humorous, might be what salesman Irwin Smith had meant (see p. 28) when he said that some of the strips just show “little boys dressed in cub [sic] uniforms doing things any kids— cubs or not—might.” [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

In Rebel’s own words, “Whenever I went into Texas, Mrs. Lyons Den [NOTE FROM GER: Stan added a note here, saying:

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

familiar to us: Dear Bob: We just got a call from Stan Lee and he called our attention to the fact that a letter had appeared in the [New York Daily] Mirror on their “Letter to the editor department” complimenting the Mirror on their new feature, Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. The copy: ENJOYS LYONS I am enjoying your new comic strip Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs very much. Hope it will be in the Mirror for a long time. - signed Gloria Simek I believe anything that can be done at this point to call attention to the feature will be most helpful to you in stimulating sales. Sincerely, Toni Mendez, Inc. Dear Lib: Stan Lee called again today to say that another letter appeared on the Editorial Page in the “Letter to the Editors” column. The copy: LIKES MRS. LYONS CUBS I enjoy reading this new strip, Mrs. Lyon’s Cubs very much. The strip hits a happy medium of good clean fun. - signed Pete Morisi My very best, Toni Mendez, Inc.

Sunday Is Fun-Day! Another Sunday strip by Lee & Maneely, this one dated April 27, 1958, and emphasizing a couple of special Scout-related features. Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo. [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

“They’ll never learn!” He’s probably referring to the lack of an apostrophe after “Lyons.”] was in the newspaper. The people love it.... the local Scouters are pushing it and for it. The Den Mothers are using it in Den Meetings and in projects.” As I have often said, just think, a few months ago you were a rich unknown... now you are a bankrupt success.

Of course, Alter Ego regulars will recognize both names. Gloria Jean Simek was the name of the daughter of Marvel letterer Artie Simek, and Pete Morisi was a comicbook artist who had joined the New York Police Department in 1956 and might actually have written in on his own (but somehow, I doubt that). At the end of April there is some good news for Lee and Maneely, even though it is not about their newspaper strip. The premium books Lee produced for the Birds Eye company with

Don “Be Prepared” Bringen Bringen also wrote Robert Cooper and Toni Mendez with a new idea. In one of the issues of the magazine going out to all den mothers, he wanted to include a common activity for club meetings: “We suggest that your Cubs clip out the daily comic strips of ‘Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs’ and, pasting them in a notebook, make a comicbook.” To be able to do that, he wanted to be sure that the strip would be kept running at least until the end of the year, because otherwise the activity would be useless. As a lure to the syndicate, he added that den mothers clipping the strip could be a significant force if any paper they were clipping from was to drop the strip. It shows how committed Don Bringen was to keeping the strip alive. Stan had really made a good connection there. In the end, Bringen did all things he said he would do—except get new sales, it seems. In the meantime, Stan was collecting all the positive letters he could find and sending them on to the syndicate through Mendez. Even though the name of the letter-writers may sound a little bit

Gloria Jean Simek

Pete Morisi

Gloria Jean Simek, daughter of longtime Marvel letterer Artie Simek, also became a letterer—first for Marvel under her then-married name “Jean Izzo,” later for both Marvel and DC as “Jean Simek.” She passed away, far too young, in 2012. From the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual.

Besides drawing comics for Marvel and others, the NYC cop moonlighted in the mid-1960s as creator/writer/artist of Charlton’s Peter Cannon… Thunderbolt. See the “Comic Crypt” sections of this issue and the previous two! Thanks to Michael T. Gilbert.

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

A Birds Eye View Maneely’s cover for the giveaway comic The Birds Eye Kids Go Fishing, which so pleased the frozen-food company. Stan Lee did the interior writing. [TM & © Birds Eye or successors in interest.]

Maneely through Timely Illustrated Features had won two significant prizes from the Premium Industry Club. At their annual awards show, the books had gotten the “Oscar” for the “Best Tie-In Sales Premium” and the “Key of Achievement” award presented by the Student Marketing Institute for an outstanding activity designed to reach, influence, and sell the youth of the nation. Stan was sent a congratulatory letter by Edward Tabibian of the Birds Eye company, commenting him on his writing and lettering. Maneely got the same letter, but with his own personal note: “The art treatment shows a marked improvement from book to book and with the last book, Birds Eye Kids Go Fishing, you really captured the fresh look we wanted in Birds Eye Kids.” Stan immediately copied the letter for Toni Mendez, which he sent to her along with copies of his work for “the Birds Eye Division of General Foods; the U.S. Department of Health, Education and Welfare; Barth Levitt Products, Inc. [a major manufacturer of mail-order vitamins]; and the Big Boy Food Chain.” Around that same time, Stan had a new idea. Unsatisfied with the progress Bringen was making, he apparently had his wife call Boy Scout Council leaders; and, in a letter to Robert Cooper, he asserted it was her idea (which it may or may not have been): Dear Bob: I don’t know why I didn’t think of it sooner!

FIVE OUT OF THE ABOVE SIX KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE STRIP!!! The man in Boston [James McGinn of the Boston Council] HAD read—by accident— simply because he buys the paper. He had heard nothing about it from the Scouts! However, he told Joan he was CRAZY ABOUT THE STRIP and most disappointed when the Globe had stopped running it! Joan asked why he hadn’t written about it to the paper and he answered that it never occurred to him! BUT—he wanted us to send proofs of the strip to him—he promised enthusiastically to show them to his 26 field men and over 100 Den Mothers and have them write to the Globe!!! He wished we had told him sooner! We got the same response right down the line. Even those who never saw the strip liked the idea of it as described by Joan, and want to do all they can for it. They were CLAMORING for proofs so that they could see it! They’re ANXIOUS to phone their local papers... and that goes for Philly and Washington D.C. If only Joan had made those phone calls weeks ago! It seems to me, on the basis of these first six calls, that if Joan continues to make these opening advances, and if you people at the syndicate could follow up by sending the interested Scout Leaders whatever material they request, the Scouting people will be more than happy to bombard their papers with letters. The mistake we made was leaving it to the National Council to contact the Scout leaders locally. The Council feels it’s unethical for them to have their local people push for a commercial venture. But it is perfectly OK for US to suggest that the local Scout Execs get behind the strip. Seems silly—but if that’s the way it can be done, that’s the way we ought to do it! I’ll have Joan call the Milwaukee exec on Monday. Bringen has already written to him, but I guess it was a very mild letter. I’m sure Joan’s phone call will start some letters on their way to the Milwaukee Journal from the Scouts without too much delay! Bringen likes the idea as well—so there is no conflict. He’ll supply us with all the proper names and numbers to call (we ferreted out the first six numbers by ourselves!). Regards, S.L. Whether they were actually Joan Lee’s idea or not, the notes seem to be all hers (although they are dated one day earlier than Stan states in his letter to Robert Cooper):

It seems that the most effective way to influence a newspaper is by having the public write lots of letters. For weeks we’ve been wishing people would write in about “Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs” but doing nothing about it—until yesterday. As I was leaving for work yesterday morning, Joan asked me why she couldn’t phone the various Boy Scout Council leaders, tell them she is making a survey of opinion regarding the strip and ask whether they have seen it, if they like it and why they don’t write their views to the papers?!! Altho’ the Scouts themselves feel they can’t make such phone calls to local councils, there’s no reason JOAN can’t do it! So she did! She phoned the council leaders in New York, Long Island, Philadelphia, Greenwich, Boston and Washington D.C. The results were tremendously satisfying.

Joan & Stan Lee as newlyweds, in late 1947. [Photo © Stan Lee.]

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

Uffelman, who was out. Spoke to Mr. Kummerline who was most pleasant and helpful. He also knew NOTHING about the strip! However, he liked the idea of it and suggested we send proof to Mr. Uffelman which could be given out to Den Mothers and various Scouting workers at next month’s Round Table meeting. He felt Mr. Uffelman would undoubtedly contact Washington Papers about the strip as soon as he’d seen material and talked to his staff about it.

Cub-ering All The Bases This publicity announcement for Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs both spotlighted the strip’s various characters and played up its connection to the Boy Scouts of America organization. [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

5/14/58 Called the NASSAU COUNCIL (6th largest in the country). Spoke to Mr. Blauvelt. HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT STRIP! Thinks it sounds great. Would be most interested in it. Doesn’t read Mirror—says nobody in his area reads Mirror. Asked why the strip isn’t in any Long Island papers—or in Herald Tribune which he said IS read by those in his area. He sounded almost annoyed that it wasn’t in local paper. However, he said he’d obtain the Mirror, look at the strip and possibly write to the Mirror after seeing it. Of all the men called, he was the coldest. Seemed somewhat resentful as he said: “How can I be expected to have known about the strip when no one’s told me—and when no one here reads the Mirror?!” Called the BOSTON COUNCIL. Spoke to Mr. Migive (phonetic spelling). He HAD seen strip—NOT because of promotion from syndicate or Scouts, but because he reads Globe. Said he’d enjoyed it IMMENSELY. Upon first seeing it, his first reaction was: “Isn’t this terrific!” He was very happy with it. A few weeks later was shocked to see it out of the Globe. Would have written to Globe—but didn’t know it would help and no one had suggested doing it! He said he has 26 field men and over 100 Den Mothers. Wants us to send proofs of strip to him. His group is having a meeting May, Monday 19th. He will certainly give them the word to write to the Globe! He said there are 18 other groups similar to his in the Boston area. Suggested we contact all or most of them—felt we’d have the same reaction from them. He was as friendly, helpful, cooperative and enchanted by the strip as we could have hoped! Unfortunately, we lost his telephone number. Called WASHINGTON COUNCIL. Head man is a Mr.

Called PHILADELPHIA COUNCIL. Spoke to Mr. Lanning. He HAD heard of strip but never SEEN it! He also suggested sending him brochures and proofs which can show his people at the next Round Table meeting. He likes the idea of strip enormously and hopes to get his Den Mothers and Scouting Execs to write Philly papers as soon as they have seen it!!

Called CONNECTICUT COUNCIL (Greenwich). Spoke to Mr. Hillingater, or some such name. Mr. H. was another who KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE STRIP! He said he and his associates don’t read Mirror. The Herald-Tribune is the most widely read paper in this area, said he. He intends to read the Mirror as soon as possible, see the strip and then call the Tribune about it! This was the first he’d heard of the strip—from ANYBODY. If we hadn’t called—he’d STILL know nothing about it! What a shameful situation!!

Called NEW YORK COUNCIL. Forgotten name of man spoken to—but he was exceptionally nice. He HAS seen the strip—in fact, reads it occasionally, although he is not a regular reader of the Mirror— and says he enjoys it VERY MUCH! In fact, now that we told him of the value of letters to the newspaper, he intends to personally write the Mirror! He also promised to talk up the strip with his associates, and try to get as many of them as possible to write to the Mirror, too. He was the only one who had received material concerning the strip— from the Scouts—a circular with 5 strips on it. (Probably a one-week tear sheet.) He felt the most important guy we could contact would be Rebel Robertson, as he is in charge with all this sort of thing in the East. (We didn’t bother telling him we’ve been in touch with R.R.—he’s Don Bringen’s boss—and although we have his support and approval, he seems reluctant to do anything for the strip personally on the grounds that it would be unethical for a Scouting official to lend his good office to pushing a commercial venture.) AFTERTHOUGHTS: It seems to me that all this work we are trying to do could be done so much easier by the Scouts— if only they could be persuaded it wouldn’t be unethical. They have mailing lists of all their local chapters—if only ONE mailing went out with the proofs of the strips—AND

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

a suggestion to the recipient to contact the local paper—it would be worth SO MUCH! Also—it would seem basic that the Chicago Sun-Times salesmen would contact the Scouting execs in each city they visit, just as we are trying to do by phone—armed with proofs and facts—THEY could ask that the Scouting people call the local papers where the Scouting Execs themselves feel they CAN’T ask! 5/20/58 Called MILWAUKEE COUNCIL. Spoke to head—Mr. Zion. He reads strip and enjoys it very much. Is surprised that paper feels there is a lukewarm reaction to the strip. Took it for granted paper KNEW how much Scouts liked strip, inasmuch as there are Scout execs on staff of paper. However, he will see to it that letters are sent to Milwaukee Journal. Also mentioned that Den Mothers in this area are using cut-outs of strip (must mean Sunday pages) in their arts and crafts projects and are very happy with them. As a television writer who has had to battle against network and newspaper apathy when it comes to introducing new series, I can completely sympathize with the despair Stan Lee must have felt when it seemed, so soon after the launch of the strip, that it was going nowhere. But, in stressing the importance of getting Scouting executives involved, he does sort of have it upside-down. He probably sold the strip in the first place by suggesting that interest by the Scouting community would ensure the strip a good warm welcome. I doubt if the Sun-Times salesmen felt it their job to encourage members of the audience to write in to the paper. On May 21 Toni Mendez wrote to Robert Cooper telling him about Stan and Joan Lee’s telephone scheme, and on the 27th he wrote back that it was a good plan and that he would like to discuss it at the next Newspaper Council meeting. Stan had followed Irwin Smith’s advice and steered the strip away from the family sitcom angle, concentrating more and more on the Cubs themselves, and for a short while it looked as if the strip might actually have a future. halt.

But on Sunday morning, June 7, 1958, everything came to a

On his way home after a night out, Joe Maneely had fallen to his death between two commuter trains. Stan Lee had lost his most valued collaborator and Mrs. Lyons her inspired artist. Although there must have been a few frenzied telephone calls going to and fro, in the Toni Mendez files no mention is made of Joe Maneely’s tragic death, other than a small clipping from the New York Mirror on June 10, 1958 (seen above right).

June 10, 1958 The above clipping from the New York Daily Mirror reports the upcoming funeral arrangements for Joe Maneely, following his tragic death on June 7th. [© the respective copyright holders.]

graphic aspect of the strip continued until it was nothing more than a daily strip about kids in Cub Scouts uniforms saying silly things they could have said in any strip. Even the Sundays, which had been Maneely’s place to shine, now showed little more than kids against a bare background. It is hard to fault Al Hartley for that. The posthumous clauses of the deal with Maneely probably meant there was very little money left to pay Hartley, certainly not enough to allow him to devote all his time to the series. Its name was changed to Cub Scouts, and new efforts were made to sell it in Canada, but the writing was on the wall. Hartley (and Stan himself) seemed to spend less and less time on it. A new feature was added to the Sundays called “Also Asks,” where the littlest Cub of them all answered fake reader’s questions with silly puns. And a very annoying lisp. On November 12, 1958, the axe fell. Robert Cooper wrote him to confirm their telephone conversation of the day before, to serve as official notice that “effective with the daily release of December 27 and the Sunday release of December 21, we will discontinue Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs.” The reason for this was “economics and simple arithmetic.” With the deal as it was, the syndicate had been losing money on the strip from the start. With the recent cancellations of the Detroit and Dallas papers, the client list had become even smaller. Three new names of papers occur on it. The Little Rock Arkansas Democrat and the Newport [VA] Daily News as a daily only and, interestingly, the Miami Herald as a Sunday only. Three more papers to look for. In addition to the shortness of the list, the Boston Globe had not been using their Sundays and the Houston Chronicle had been complaining about bad feedback from readers, so they might not have stuck around for long, either. He ends the letter with a friendly note, thanking Stan for all his work and hoping they would do something together again in the future.

After that, there is no more mention of Mrs. Lyon’s Cubs in the files of Toni Mendez, except for a slightly desperate-sounding letter by Stan Lee on July 27, 1958, mentioning that there will be a second inside back cover of Summertime, using a page he and Maneely had done before his death. This probably refers to a couple of items Lee and Maneely had produced for two issues of Scholastic’s Summertime magazine for (what else?) the summer of 1958. As of the writing of this article, no copies of the piece have been found.

But that’s not all. There was a last flurry of mails about money. On November 14 (the day after Stan had heard the strip would be cancelled) he wrote a letter to Toni about a sensitive subject:

As with the Birds Eye awards, Maneely’s art was a big part of the success of Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs—even though, at the time of his death, the strip itself had not been drawn as flamboyantly as it was at the start. After the last of his strips was used, Stan chose Timely regular Al Hartley to take over. The paring down of the

Last month Bob Cooper asked me if I’d accept less than the guaranteed minimum payment for a while to enable the syndicate to be able to afford to launch a new, intensified sales campaign and to print a new brochure.

Dear Toni: I’m afraid there’s been an unfortunate misunderstanding regarding payment from the Sun-Times for “Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs.”

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

Al Hartley From the photo section of the 1964 Marvel Tales Annual #1. Hartley drew numerous humor features for Timely and Marvel, ending with the cancellation of Patsy and Hedy in the latter 1960s.

I told Bob that I’d go along with such an arrangement for a while, as I had faith in the strip and felt a new, energetic sales campaign might help put it across. However, shortly after that, the syndicate decided to discontinue the strip.

A-Scouting We Will Go—No More! The Nov. 11, 1958, Sunday strip, as drawn by Al Hartley—repro’d from a black-&-white proof. By this point, virtually all Scouting connections to the strip had vanished. No Cub uniforms or references appeared in the half dozen or more Hartley-drawn examples of the feature we’ve been able to view. [TM & © Field Enterprises, Inc., or successors in interest.]

Now then, inasmuch as NO new sales campaign is to be launched and the strip is now dropped, I feel I should certainly receive my full guaranteed payment for the balance of the contract AS IT WAS NEVER MY INTENT, NOR BOB’S, I’M SURE, FOR ME TO TAKE LESS MONEY IF THE STRIP WAS TO BE DROPPED! Bob and I had specifically agreed that any cut in income for me was to be based upon that unpaid amount of money being used for sales and promotion purposes to help the strip. I’d very much appreciate it, Toni, if you could clarify this matter with Chicago and see to it that I receive full payment for the balance of my contract period. All best, Stan

This time Mendez did little more than send on Stan Lee’s letter, though she did add that she “would appreciate it, Bob, if you would take care of this for me.” How it was resolved, I don’t know. A year later, Toni Mendez would have her own financial problems with Stan Lee, and that time she would not be so accommodating. But first, let’s have a look at some of the other projects Stan had initiated after he realized that his Cub Scout strip (alone) would not end up getting him out of his day job.

For The Love Of Linda After the start of Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs, Stan also tried to sell a new soap-opera strip with Vince Colletta. It seems to have had nothing to do with their earlier effort, Clay Murdock, V.P., but it also capitalized on Colletta’s ability to draw pretty women in romantic

situations. Together with the artist, Stan worked up a sample batch of the first week to be sent to the syndicates. He also submitted an extensive outline (which is printed in full on the following page). As far as we know, the sample set did not include a Sunday page—either in the Toni Mendez Collection, or in the files that Frankie Colletta keeps of his father’s work. This was probably a cost-saving measure, because if the feature had been sold, a Sunday would have been too good to miss. On May 6, 1958, Mendez sent the material to E.B. Thompson at the King Features Syndicate. On May 8, she acknowledged to Stan that she had received the material “to be used for sale as a newspaper syndicated feature.” E.B. Thompson replied on May 13 that the strip has an “appealing quality” but that “the tight market and the wealth of soap opera strips” made it a tough sale. After that, she tried the New York Herald Tribune, a very popular and well-read newspaper with its own distribution and syndication arm. It was one of the big sales that one would need to establish a costly feature such as this. The proposal was returned on June 2. Editor Harry Walker commented positively on the art and added: “If the broad were ten years older she could be the title character in a strip I wanna do about a beautiful girl Viennese psychiatrist named Hedy LaSchrink.” Not really sure if he was serious about that. But of course Mendez followed him up on it. She offered a meeting with Vince Colletta and suggested Stan Lee would be the man to write it. “All he’ll need is some direction.” But there was no reply, and For the Love of Linda was not offered to any other syndicate. Which seems a shame for something so much effort was put into, but maybe E.B. Thompson’s comment about there being too many soap-opera strips around already was taken at heart. Of course, in the years after that, just as many new soap-opera strips

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

of the 1930s (such as Ballyhoo) had used the juxtaposition between text and photos to comical effect, but never in such a direct way. In the ’50s there had been one or two newspaper features consisting of photos of babies with funny sayings, and even Harvey Kurtzman had once resorted to that particular trick when he’d had to quickly fill a few pages in the early comicbook incarnation of Mad (“Baby Quips!” in Mad #13, July 1954). But apart from that, this approach never reached the heights of popularity it would attain in the late ’50s and early ’60s.

were started, including (but not limited to) Lou Fine’s unjustly forgotten Adam Ames (written by Elliot Caplin) and Alex Kotzky’s Apartment 3G (written by Nick Dallis). Knowing Stan Lee, it would not have surprised me to see the story recycled in one of Timely or even Marvel’s romance comics; it may yet turn up among the many such stories he wrote. Or maybe not. Maybe he was already busy plotting his next escape attempt.

Look Back In Laughter In late 1958 Stan hit upon an idea that seems to have been in the air in the U.S. around that time. On September 31, Toni Mendez’s assistant, Helen Kurtz sent a proposal for a book called Art Script to American publisher Doubleday. She added a personal note: “Take a peek—I think it is great.” No samples survive, but from the reply and the subsequent letters, we can gather that it was to be a book of samples of (copyright-free) reproductions of famous art with funny captions by Stan, similar to the book Art Afterpieces by Disney animator Ward Kimball. But the latter book would be published in 1964; when Stan proposed his version, no one had yet done anything like that. Well, that’s not quite true. When Stan had been editor in 1950 of the short-lived broadsheet version of Magazine Enterprises’ Focus magazine, he included (and probably wrote) funny photostrip “Whodunits,” and some comicbook historians claim he had written funny captions for some of Martin Goodman’s spicy photo magazines before that. Additionally, some of the satire magazines

When Lee was doing his own Mad magazine imitation, Snafu, he went back to his old girlie-magazine days; and in #2 (Dec. 1955) he included a two-page feature called “Let ‘Em Have Cheesecake!” It consisted of photos of scantily clad women saying funny things. Like the women in Goodman’s Humorama magazines, what they were saying was not put into balloons, but typed beneath the photos. In the same issue, Stan also produced a similar page called “Snafu’s Zoo,” which repeated the gag, this time with pics of animals. In Snafu #3 (Jan. 1956), the “Zoo” feature was expanded to two pages and a new article was added, called “Art Appreciation.” In it, the writer (“Rembrandt J. Forbush”) looked at the secrets hidden in a couple of famous paintings by Hans

Art Afterpieces This successful book by Disney animator Ward Kimball was published in 1964—six years after Stan Lee’s unsuccessful attempt to market a very similar concept. [TM & © the respective copyright holders.]

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

For The Love Of Linda These three Thursday-to-Saturday dailies written by Stan Lee and drawn by Vince Colletta are half of all that seems to have existed of this prospective comic strip. If such romantic-drama strips had been a bit more of a growth market, it seems likely theirs could have competed with The Heart of Juliet Jones, et al. Special thanks to Frankie Colletta. [© Stan Lee & Estate of Vince Colletta.]

Holbein and Francisco Goya. For this feature, some art was added (probably by Joe Maneely), but there was also another important addition: the dialogue was now in speech balloons. A logical idea, but unused until that moment. So, if anyone was allowed (and capable) to exploit this kind of humor, it was Stan Lee. But, original as it may have been, Art Script wasn’t sold. On October 16, 1958, Ferris Mack from Doubleday replied that he found the samples very clever, but that he had seen a dozen similar submissions in the last year or two. One of those had even been picked up by another publisher and recently released under the

name Captions Courageous. Mack advised Stan Lee to take a look at it, as it had sold pretty well. That may have been a hint, however, to suggest he felt he knew where Stan had gotten the idea. Captions Courageous, which had been published by AbelardSchuman in January 1958, may have been forgotten since its early success, but seems to have had the same idea and concept as Stan’s proposal. In January 1959 a second volume was published, and after that Bob Reisner became a famous music journalist, writing the seminal biography of jazz legend Charlie “Bird” Parker. It might have seemed likely to Ferris Mack that Stan had seen

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Kurtz received a reply from The World Publishing Company. The editor returned the proposal, not because he/she didn’t find it funny, but because it was not the kind of book World was doing at that time. In fact, World, too, had earlier rejected Captions Courageous and were not about to alter their ideas about that sort of thing. If that sounds snobbish, it’s probably because it was.

Let Them Eat Zoo Animals! (Above & below:) Two early Stan Lee photo-features with humorous dialogue from Snafu #2 (Dec. 1955), Timely/Atlas’ own short-lived competitor to Mad magazine. Speech balloons would be added in Snafu #3. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

But Mendez didn’t give up. The proposal was sent to many publishers, all of whom rejected it. One even did so because it already had a similar project in the pipeline. Did Anyone Bring an Opener? stayed even closer to Silverstein’s “Teevee Jeebees” by using old movie stills. It was written by Philip Cammarata with the help of comedian Jonathan Winters, which makes it something of a minor collectible nowadays. Cammarata tried again in 1966 with dogs (Sex and the Single Dog) and scored in the 1980s with Who F*rted? and Who F*rted This Time? Toni Mendez’s assistant Helen Kurtz asked Stan not to give up hope, because she really believed in the project. And, as an employee of Martin Goodman’s, he knew that flooding the market with imitations was not always a bad thing. The script had been sent out to Scribner’s; maybe they would bite. But they didn’t. On October 22 the reply came back. And to add insult to injury, Scribner’s didn’t even find it all that funny. In the meantime, the photo-caption craze was getting bigger and bigger. In the July 1959 issue of Playboy Shel Silverstein had started his “Teevee Jeebies,” which had him adding funny captions to old movie stills. The accompanying text suggested this could be a new party game for those who watched old movies on television: “Turn down the audio, and recreate your own scenario for the stirring scenes that move across your screen.” It was a new kind of satire for a new era, and was an immediate success. In 1960, Harvey Kurtzman started using the idea as a way to do gags in Help!, his celebrated (but cheaply produced) magazine for Warren Publications. He often chose political subjects as well, embracing the new satire boom of the early ’60s. In 1961, the best of those were published in an oblong format by Fawcett. Later,

Reisner’s book and figured, “I can do that!” But, in fact, Stan had done it first. And, although it is unlikely that Reisner stole the idea from Stan, there is yet another connection. In December 1956 Shel Silverstein did four pages of funny captions accompanying famous paintings for his regular client, Playboy magazine. Did Silverstein come up with this all by his own? Or did he see Snafu (which, as a struggling cartoonist, he might have), and did Reisner see Silverstein’s interpretation in Playboy? Whatever the connection, it meant that Stan’s book went unpublished. He didn’t give up so easily, though. In 1959 he made a deal with the Bettmann Picture Library to produce a book of 19th-century etchings from the Bettmann collection. In his proposal in Toni Mendez’s files, an etching is included, but sadly without the caption. It shows an 1889 woodcut of two people boxing, flanked with two managers in hats. On June 8, 1959, Helen

Captions Courageous One of the pages from Bob Reisner & Hal Kapplow’s 1958 art-and-captions book—which, despite Stan’s earlier work in the same vein, made his proposal for Art Scripts seem like a copy of them. Can’t quite figure out, though, where Stan came up with that title “Art Scripts”! [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

a male Dear Abby—though not in this format.” How serious a contender such an (illustrated) feature could have been can’t be assessed without samples—which, sadly, are not known to exist.

Li’l Repute Even when it looked as if Willie Lumpkin was sold, Stan did not sit still.

Who Doesn’t Say? In 1963 Stan Lee’s name wasn’t enough of a draw outside comicbooks for it to be ballyhooed on the cover of his two You Don’t Say! books; still, they were still at least a minor success. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Kurtzman’s photo researcher Gerald Gardner would take the idea to do his own very successful series of books, beginning with Who’s in Charge Here? in 1962. Kurtzman would come up with his own Beat It, Kid… You Can’t Vote (though not till 1967), while beginning in 1963 Stan himself would mine the field with a series of magazines from Marvel called You Don’t Say, giving the idea a political spin—as well as a series using pictures from monster movies, titled Monster Madness. And that’s not even counting Stan’s self-published books Blushing Blurbs and Golfers Anonymous from 1961, which we’ll come to at the end of this article.

He had been working on a separate feature with Russ Heath. Heath had been one of Lee’s most favored Timely artists in the 1950s, producing lots of very fine stories and covers for the war and horror books. In the late ’50s, he was getting more and more work from DC (especially for the war mags), but he’d also worked for Stan’s Mad imitation Snafu and Harvey Kurtzman’s short-lived full-color parody magazine Trump (for Playboy Enterprises). In 1962 he would assist Kurtzman and Bill Elder on the first year of Little Annie Fanny, the comic strip Kurtzman and company produced for Playboy, using his obvious skills in drawing pretty women to good effect.

When I visited Mr. Heath a couple of years ago in his Los Angeles bungalow, he didn’t remember a lot from his days with Stan Lee; but when we went to his “closet of lost art,” he showed me a gag cartoon of a sexy lady, done in his slick, funny style—the same style he had used for Snafu and other Mad magazine imitations. He told me it was part of something he had been going to do with Stan, but what it was and why it never came to anything, he didn’t recall. Later, it turned up in Florentino Fernández’s artbook about Russ Heath, Flesh and Steel (IDW, 2014), together with some additional pieces in full color. The gorgeous art would have made for a very

Stan would later return twice to the genre, by the way. In 1977 he would create a short-lived newspaper strip called Says Who!, using photos of politicians with added captions. Although it was often genuinely funny, maybe by that time having politicians say outrageous things wasn’t so surprising anymore. In 2008, Stan would also produce Election Daze, a similar book with funny lines by politicians.

Stag Line As the whole “Look Back in Laughter” section demonstrates, in his attempts to get out of comicbooks, Stan Lee was not limiting himself to newspaper comic strips. On August 18, 1959, Toni Mendez wrote to Harold Anderson of Publishers Syndicate about yet another idea from her client. By then they were already in bed together with Willie Lumpkin (whose long gestation period will be covered further on), but Stag Line seems to have something different. She wants Anderson’s opinion so that “the boys can work on additional material,” but what are we talking about? Is it a newspaper strip? A panel? Something else? In a handwritten response we get the first clue. Anderson wants to talk over the idea with Stan on his next trip to New York. Apparently he likes it, but the main problem is that “somebody already offered

Russ Heath juxtaposed with art he drew in 1955 for a parody of the hit movie Blackboard Jungle in Stan Lee’s Snafu #1. Heath was not only one of the best of the “realistic” comicbook artists—he could also work in a humorous mode, as on Snafu and Harvey Kurtzman’s Little Annie Fanny. The photo is from an interview that appeared in Comic Art News and Reviews magazine in 1972. [Snafu page TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Li’l Repute A concept sheet and potential cartoon probably done for the Lee/Heath project Li’l Repute. It previously appeared in Flesh and Steel, Florentino Floréz’s book on Heath’s art. [© Russ Heath.]

pretty and very funny package, I believe. But maybe a bit too racy for its time. Not as a subject (plenty of books around that time had a prostitute as the main character), but there was no one doing art as sexy as Russ Heath’s. It wasn’t until Kurtzman and Elder started doing Little Annie Fanny a couple of years later that that particular barrier was broken. Of course, on the first Annie stories they were assisted by none other than Mr. Heath himself. On April 22, 1959, Mendez’s assistant Helen Kurtz sent the Heath/Lee samples, titled Li’l Repute, to Sonia Leventhal of book publisher McGraw-Hill. She was invited to call in, so other than the fact that there was no sale, we have no record of her reaction. On April 28 the whole set was sent to Peter Schwed at Simon & Schuster. A note was added that Stan Lee was the “Cartoon Editor of Goodman Publishing and until recently his feature, Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs, was distributed by the Chicago Sun-Times. We are now in final negotiations for Stan’s new feature to be distributed by one of the newspaper syndicates.” She added: “We wanted you to be the first to have a look at this and hope you will get a couple of chuckles out of it as we did.” His answer (when the package was returned on May 6) was a decidedly unchuckling “I am sorry, but I think this is simply not for us.” On May 15 it was sent to Sam Schwartz of the Grayson Publishing Corp., who had also published the similar (but far less explicit) Over Sexteen. They must have declined within a week, because on May 27 it was sent to Captions Courageous’ AbelardSchuman. This time Lee’s and Heath’s biographies were expanded: Stan Lee is the Editor and Art Editor of Magazine Management Co. He is a member of the Newspaper Council, National Cartoonists Society, and the Academy of TV Arts and Sciences. One of his properties has been syndicated by the Chicago Sun-Times and he has a new comic strip which will be syndicated this fall. He has done cartoon books for the U.S. Government, Red Cross, General Foods, etc. and numerous humor articles for magazines.

Russ Heath has been a staff artist for Benton & Bowles. He has done work for MAD, PLAYBOY, etc, record covers for RCA, and has worked on such comic strips as Flash Gordon, Terry and the Pirates, etc. He has been a freelance artist for 16 years. In Jerry Bails’ online Who’s Who in American Comic Books 1928-1999, the work Russ Heath did for RCA is noted, but there is no mention of his assisting on the comic strips Flash Gordon and/or Terry and the Pirates before 1970 and 1961 respectively. Stan’s credits are all known, except for the work he may have done for the Red Cross and his “numerous magazine articles.” What he did to get into the Academy of TV Arts and Sciences, I don’t know. Something for the “Stannites” to track down! The same package was sent to Gold Medal Books on July 23, but neither resulted in a sale. The first positive response came from Sam Post of Hillman Books. The editors at Hillman were interested but wanted to see how a similar sex gag book called Sextasy would do the next March. It was released in 1960 as Hillman paperback #141 and it sold enough for another book called More Sextasy to be published in 1961, but apparently not well enough to make Hillman go ahead with Li’l Repute. Or was there another reason this book was sidetracked? After the first interest by Hillman, Mendez asked Stan and Heath to sign an agreement of representation. Because Stan and Mendez had become embroiled in a financial conflict regarding Willie Lumpkin, Stan wrote back that he wanted to add a caveat to the contract, stating that it would have “no bearing upon any commission claim or claims that Toni Mendez has, claims to have, or may hereafter have or claim to have with respect to said comic strip, with regard

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

to which certain controversies have arisen between Toni Mendez Inc. and Stan Lee,” and so on and so forth. To lighten the mood, Stan added: “If lawyers were paid by the word, mine would get the highest prices in the business!” There is no record if Ms. Mendez was amused. She forwarded his letter to Arthur Schnek of Tislowitz, Schneck, & Hechtman and put the whole contract on hold on January 9, 1960. On January 20 Sam Post wrote back to her that he would not be ready to say anything about the book until March of that year. And on April 21 Mendez wrote to Heath that she had given Hillman ten days to respond. Apparently nothing came of it. Most of the seventeen roughs and color samples mentioned in some of the letters have never been seen again. The last mention of the Li’l Repute project is from Mendez on September 13, 1960. The legal troubles with Stan Lee seem to have been resolved. The occasion for the letter seems to have been a sad one, relating to Mendez’s assistant, Helen Kurtz. The cartoon agent begins by writing: “By now you are aware of the sad news about Helen. It has been a terrible shock for all of us.” I haven’t been able to trace if Helen Kurtz died, or simply left the company. Included in the file of returned artwork was a list she had made before her untimely departure. It indicated that Li’l Repute had been shown to McGraw-Hill, Monarch Books, Frederick Fell Publishers, Simon & Schuster, Grayson Publishing, AbelardShuman, Fawcett, and Hillman. As late as April 28, 1960, Hillman had been still interested. If anyone at any of these houses still has records, feel free to send them in!

Betsy And Me In the first part of this article I said that Stan Lee had no further contact with Field Enterprises after the death of Joe Maneely. Well, it turns out that he did, although there is no record of it in the files of Toni Mendez. Or anywhere else. But when Bill Morrison (the author of the Dan DeCarlo biography and art collection Innocence and Seduction) sent me copies of a bunch of stuff Stan and Dan had done on the way to Willie Lumpkin, it included yet another Stan proposal with historic significance. From the DeCarlo files Morrison had copied five dailies, dated and inked, of a cartoony strip about two people moving to a new neighborhood. It was told in such a way that this could be the start for a new family strip, which Bill dubbed Homeowners Proposal. A bit weird that the potential dailies were fully inked and dated for the second week of September, though.

I had no trouble recognizing the characters or the style: this was a week of strips for Jack Cole’s Betsy and Me comic strip, dated for the first week after Cole’s strips would have run out following his mysterious suicide earlier that summer of 1958. Dan DeCarlo had done a good job of imitating Cole’s “modern” cartoon style, but in some of the figures his own flavor remains. Now, this is not to fault Bill Morrison’s eyesight. He had these strips because of his interest in Dan DeCarlo. Jack Cole is a well-known figure in American comicbooks, most celebrated for his 1950s horror stories and his earlier creation of the wonderful “Plastic Man,” and for his cartoons and decorative female figures in the early Playboy —but Betsy and Me is not judged his best work. When I saw that the “complete” edition of Betsy and Me from Fantagraphics did not contain certain Cole Sundays, I started buying those and scanning them for my blog “The Fabulous Fifties” (www.allthingsger.blogspot.com). That led to my being contacted by David Parks, the son of the advertising artist, Dwight Parks, who had taken over the strip after Cole’s death for the remainder of that year. I wrote an article about the strip and Parks for the annual magazine Hogan’s Alley (#17), so I was more familiar with Betsy and Me than most. David Parks told me that, immediately following Cole’s death, the syndicate, Field Enterprises, was in a panic. They were contractually obliged to continue the strip at least until the end of the year. His father answered an ad in the Chicago Sun-Times to get the job. Apparently it was a last-minute thing, and Parks really had to scramble to get it done. Stan and Dan’s efforts re Betsy and Me might have been earlier. Lee may have made use of his connection to the Chicago Sun-Times Syndicate, which was owned by Field Enterprises. Of course, the whole thing is extra-poignant, because Stan had just lost his own artist on Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs and was struggling to find a replacement there as well. Whether the project fell through due to a lack of quality or because negotiations concerning payment didn’t work out (remember, Stan had been paid a guaranteed minimum on Lyons’), we don’t know. He may even have been offered a closed contract until the end of the year (like Parks) and refused that—because, at the same time, he was already working with Dan DeCarlo on a new project and knew that had a good chance of succeeding.

Main Street “[Cartoonist] Mell Lazarus had done a strip called Miss Peach,

Homeowners Proposal One of the unnamed Lee/Maneely daily-style comic strips that TV/comics writer Bill Morrison calls “Homeowners Proposal.” Ger Apeldoorn immediately recognized its original intent, as revealed in this article. [© Stan Lee and Estate of Joe Maneely.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Jack Cole, Betsy And Me Cole, the creator of “Plastic Man” and 1950s cartoons for Playboy, landed his dream job of doing a newspaper comic strip—yet committed suicide in 1958. Seen above right is his strip for Sunday, June 15; courtesy of Art Lortie. Betsy And Me was continued by other hands—but not by those of Stan Lee and Joe Maneely. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

which used not panels but one long panel instead. I liked that idea very much, so when Harold Anderson, the head of Publishers Syndicate, asked me to do a strip, I came up with Barney’s Beat, which was about a New York City cop and all the Jack Cole characters on his patrol who he’d meet every day and there would be a gag. I did some samples with Dan DeCarlo, and I thought it was wonderful. Harold said it was too ‘big city-ish’ and they’re not going to care for it in the small towns because they don’t have cops on a beat out there. He wanted something that would appeal to the hinterland, something bucolic. He said, ‘You know what I want, Stan? I want a mailman! A friendly little mailman in a small town.’ I don’t remember if I came up with the name Lumpkin or he did,

but I hated it. I think I came up with the name as a joke and he said, ‘Yeah, that’s it! Good idea!’”

This is how Stan Lee related the origin of his comic strip Willie Lumpkin in a conversation with Roy Thomas for the magazine Comic Book Artist #2 in 1998. Perusing the files of Toni Mendez (and with a little help from Bill Morrison), however, a slightly different picture emerges. This much is true: as soon as Stan started developing properties for syndication, he seems to have thought about teaming up with DeCarlo. They had been working together since the late 1940s on a whole slew of successful teen comics, all making good use of DeCarlo’s attractive yet Code-friendly way of drawing sexy women. In 1952, they even collaborated for a couple of months on the newspaper version of their comicbook hit My Friend Irma. Although the aforementioned Timely comicbook was a good seller well into the ’50s, artist Jack Seidel got the job doing the newspaper strip in 1950; but when he left (presumably because of poor sales and income), Stan and Dan stepped in and finished off the strip. All through the ’50s Stan kept DeCarlo busy in comicbooks, but the artist did try to develop a strip on his own, called Buzzy and Bunny. Maybe that got in the way of Stan developing a project with him, or maybe Stan was busy enough with his 60+ comics a month. In 1956 the two of them did a parody of Jimmy Hatlo’s newspaper panel They’ll Do It Every Time called “Howcum” for Stan’s Mad comics imitation Riot #4. For #5 they repeated it as “Why Izzit?,” and this could just as well have been a proposal for a daily panel (as such single-drawing features Miss Peach are technically known, instead of The Dec. 30, 1957, daily of Mell Lazarus’ very popular one-panel comic strip. The feature would apparently being called “comic strips”). But serve as a template of sorts for the early days of Lee’s Willie Lumpkin. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.] maybe it was a bit too much “on

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Dan DeCarlo

the nose”; they needed something original.

It’s hard to get hold of photos of this talented artist between 1948 and his above appearance at the All-Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention held in White Plains, NY, in June of 2000—so thanks to con host Joe Petrilak (and photog Anthony Koch) for this one! DeCarlo is flanked by the comicbook (right) and comic strip (bottom of page) versions of the popular radio/TV show My Friend Irma that he drew with writer Stan Lee in the early 1950s. Thanks to Tom Heintjes for the strips, and to Ger Apeldoorn for the Timely/Atlas house ad. [TM & © the respective copyright holders.]

On March 4, 1958, just after the start of Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs, Toni Mendez received a copy of the first rejection letter for a new feature by Lee and DeCarlo. It was from the Chicago Sun-Times, which had a rightof-first-refusal deal with the writer. The reason the letter gives for rejecting the strip is that they felt they couldn’t release a new feature by the same writer for at least another six months. Two days later Stan sent Toni Mendez a jovial note: For Xmas, how about getting ol’ Stan Lee a typewriter ribbon? S. PS—Don’t take above seriously— I’ll get one out of stock room. (I know how literal you are!) Later that week, Mendez sent the proposal on to several other papers. The response was mixed, as usual. King Features rejected it outright, suggesting it was “too close to All around Home.” But, somewhere in September, there seem to have been

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Riot On The Nose! In the Timely/Atlas comic Riot #5 (April 1956), DeCarlo and Lee collaborated on a couple of pages parodying Jimmy Hatlo’s famous comic panel They’ll Do It Every Time. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

three candidates who were seriously interested in it. General Features (a small syndicate that distributed the realistic strips Jeff Cobb and Drift Marlo and the sports-page gag strip Little Sport) was interested but bowed out when Stan and Dan wanted to keep the copyright for themselves. United Features was another serious candidate, but its president, Larry Rutman, found the style to be old-fashioned. Even though DeCarlo’s style had been pretty modern at some time, by the late ’50s newer, looser cartoon styles had begun appearing. Although it seems a strange comment to us, compared to cartoonists such as Al Jaffee, Arnold Roth, and Mell Lazarus, there was something wholesome to DeCarlo’s work. This may be why he tried a much more modern approach in some of the later samples of Main Street and even Willie Lumpkin. The best bet was Publishers Syndicate. Though they had doubts “whether average newspapers will gamble on something so off-beat,” they believed there was something there worth developing. This last reply may just have been what caused Stan and Dan to pass on Betsy and Me. King Features’ remark that it was too much like “All around Home” makes no sense until you see the strip. One panel was reprinted in Bill Morrison’s book on DeCarlo (as a solo DeCarlo effort), and Bill kindly sent me another one.

Right Around Home You (and we) may not be able to make out all the dialogue in this example of this Sunday strip by Dudley Fisher, which ran from 1937 to 1964—but you get the idea. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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1958 working on. It will have to be a short chapter, because although the file on it is huge, nothing ever came of it and we have very little to show for it. But it does speak volumes about Stan’s desire to be something more than just a comicbook writer. When Stan Lee sold his first feature to the Chicago Sun-Times syndicate, he immediately seized the opportunity to become a member of the National Cartoonists Society and the Newspaper Comics Council. The NCS was set up in 1946 as an organization where famous artists such as Gus Edson, Otto Soglow, Ham Fisher, Jimmy Hatlo, and Russell Patterson could meet and have a drink without the wife dropping in. By the Main Street late ’40s it had become Two examples of the Lee & DeCarlo strip idea that pointed the way to Barney’s Beat—and ultimately to Willie Lumpkin. the organization to join [© Stan Lee & Estate of Dan DeCarlo.] for anyone drawing for newspapers or magazines. Both show a very unique “modern” strip which can be described In those years, comicbook artists were not welcome; they were as a cross between Dudley Fisher’s Right around Home (there was considered a lower class of artist. Among the NCS presidents in its no such strip as “All around Home”) and Miss Peach. In Right around first few years were Rube Goldberg, Milton Caniff, Alex Raymond, Home, you got a huge dose of the daily life of a small-town family, and Walt Kelly. When Stan Lee joined, Mort Walker had just started with lots of characters running around, each doing or saying their his two-year presidency. Quite a crowd to hang out with, especially own thing. In Mell Lazarus’ Miss Peach the dailies were all one panel, in which you saw the characters (all quite intelligent school kids) in a row, each reacting to the same subject. In Main Street, the principal characters are the unnamed inhabitants of a big city. In the two samples we have, they discuss cars and ladies’ dresses, and it seems Stan intended to use the feature as some sort of spoof on contemporary trends. There are no regular characters, which would make it quite a tough sell in the long run. It seems to me that Stan mainly took his style from Miss Peach, fitting it to his own world and gags (as he was used to doing). In the samples we have, DeCarlo draws the strip in a modern style. In the second strip, he even includes a little kid who bears more than a slight resemblance to one of Mell Lazarus’ tykes. It is obvious to me that this is the “urban” strip that was eventually turned into Willie Lumpkin. My guess is that Barney’s Beat came after Main Street (adding a regular character to the mix), and somehow in Stan’s memory the two got mingled up. Two things remained from Main Street through Barney’s Beat to the new, more small-town-friendly Willie Lumpkin: the hip one-tier format and the modern drawing style. At least for the first few months, after which DeCarlo reverted to his “old-fashioned” self.

Around The World With The Comics But before we start the last lap of Stan’s efforts to get out of comicbooks, we have to address another project he spent most of

Cartoonists Cookbook Neal Adams’ entry in the 1996 publication. He chose to do a caricature version of the comic strip Ben Casey, which he’d drawn three decades earlier, even before he got into comicbooks. [Art TM & © the respective trademark & copyright owners.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Apparently They Don’t Show That Booklet, Either! Cover drawn by Mort Walker (of Beetle Bailey fame) for the prospective but never-realized booklet They Don’t Show These Sights on the Regular Tours, which Stan Lee was to write and edit. [Art © Mort Walker.]

if you wanted to move up in the comic strip world. Many of the same artists were represented in the Newspaper Comics Council, which was a much more active group. They organized charity events and produced books and pamphlets for several causes, the most famous of which was the 1996 Cartoonists Cookbook, with art and recipes by anybody who was anything in newspaper comics, from Neal Adams (Ben Casey) to Bill Yates (Professor Phumble). This idea for a coloring book probably started with Toni Mendez herself (which would explain why she kept such a huge file on it). On May 31, 1957, she mentioned the idea to Henry Saalfield of the Saalfield Publishing Company. In addition to a book about the history of comics the NCS was producing for Simon & Schuster (which was never published), she wanted to see if there was room for a separate coloring book, showcasing the work of the outstanding members of the NCS. Since all monies on these projects always went to the Cartoonists Indigent Fund, there would be no problem with the syndicates over the use of the characters, which they mostly owned. On June 11, Saalfield (“one of the leaders in the field of coloring books, doll books, and puzzles”) expressed interest, and Mendez set on the humongous task of getting the whole thing organized. The first problem was that the NCS itself was not interested, but she immediately moved the whole project to her “own” organization, the Newspaper Comics Council. Around the same time, they were also producing a booklet for the U.S. Customs service called They Don’t Show These Sights on the Regular Tours. Under a Mort Walker cover, it showcased new cartoons by famous cartoonists such as Milton Caniff, Walt Kelly, Charles Schulz, and Al Capp, who also organized the whole thing. It was co-produced by the National Tourist Board and was intended to show American tourists—in a funny way—how not to behave abroad. Mendez first tried to turn that into a coloring book, but Saalfield wasn’t interested in presenting lesser-known cartoonists or cartoons by well-known creators that didn’t feature their famous creations. Saalfield just wanted a good subject, some nice gags, and as many name newspaper strip characters as possible. He reminded her that, as far as children were concerned, the cartoon was usually much better known than the cartoonist. Mendez noted that name cartoon characters might be harder to arrange, but a deal was made and a $2500 advance for a 132-page book was offered. An additional deal was made with UNICEF to try to combine the book in some way with their cause (and use the resulting publicity). The book was put on the roster for November 1958, and Stan Lee was chosen as the writer and editor . On July 21 Mendez wrote Saalfield in response to the list of instructions for

the contributors, like the size and scope of the drawings (“Please keep all drawing a humorous situation in itself—no continuity of pages”). She mentions a meeting with UNICEF at which Stan Lee was introduced as the working editor for the project, adding that “he is a tremendously capable person, aside from being creative in his own right.” As the editor, Stan would come up with some rough ideas for the cartoonists to work with. These roughs would be sent to Saalfield for approval before being finished by the artists. The working title of the project was Comics around the World, although Mendez said that might be changed if Stan came up with something better. The next day she wrote that the cartoonists were being checked regarding trademarks and copyrights, and as soon as a complete list was available it would be sent to the publisher’s office so they could see which one might be best suited for the cover. This all sounds very promising, but getting it all done in time for a November release proved difficult. What started out as a nice little side activity for the National Comics Council was swiftly turning into a major headache. By August 2, 1958, editor Alice McQuistion was putting on the pressure. She had promised Henry Saalfield the artwork by September 15, and the deadline was quickly approaching. They also still didn’t have the entire list of characters from which to choose the front and back covers, and she hoped to see samples for the insides as well. Either Stan was having a hard time getting the drawings from his contributors or someone didn’t want to be in a situation where Saalfield could express an opinion about them. At the same time, Stan was also scrambling to find a replacement for Joe Maneely on Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs, trying out for Betsy and Me with Dan DeCarlo, and weathering the storm at Timely, where the whole comics department had come tumbling down after the failure of Goodman’s new distributor, American News. Desperate for anything for the book, McQuistion even said they “could take thirty or forty at a time” if there was any sort of delay. In Mendez’s files, there is a handwritten list of cartoonists and characters, either a wish list or what they had so far. It includes Steve Canyon, Li’l Abner, Kerry Drake, Judge Parker, Dick Tracy, Dondi, Long Sam, Steve Roper, Beetle Bailey, and of course everyone’s favorite new strip Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. But from there on, things went downhill very quickly. On August 12 McQuistion sent Mendez a telegram because she couldn’t reach Lee. From August 28 there

Dippy Duck Not long before the collapse of Martin Goodman’s and Timely’s new distributor, American News, Stan Lee wrote the entirety of the last comicbook to sport the Atlas globe: Dippy Duck #1 (Oct. 1957). The artist? Believe it or not—Joe Maneely! Thanks to the Grand Comics Database. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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is a letter confirming that the coloring book has been pulled from the November list; after that, nothing is ever about the book again. Of course, given all the rights problems, we don’t know if Stan even started writing jokes for the book. Sketches were promised for McQuistion’s approval, so she may have gotten some. For all we know, some of Stan’s gags may still be lying in the drawers of the cartoonists mentioned. Or maybe the whole thing just never got off the ground.

Barney’s Beat One of the few extant examples of the proposed Lee/DeCarlo strip about a cop on the beat. The pair would try the same approach—one wide panel per day—with Willie Lumpkin. [© Stan Lee & Estate of Dan DeCarlo.]

In 1965 Saalfield did publish two Peanuts coloring books (with many more after that), and in 1966 they finally did one with the National Comics Council, called Parade of the Comics. The theme was “the circus comes to town,” and it included contributions by Irwin Hasen, Neal Adams, Leonard Starr, Mell Lazarus, and Jerry Robinson. But not by Stan Lee, and not from Mrs. Lyon’s Cubs.

At Last—Willie Lumpkin There is no record in Toni Mendez’s files about the development of Willie Lumpkin. The history as it has been handed down is as follows: After trying their luck with Barney’s Beat, Stan Lee and Dan DeCarlo were persuaded to transfer the format of a single-

panel comic strip, in which the main character comments on the goings-on, from New York City to the suburbs. It was decided that a postman would be the best (and friendliest) way to do this. Not the “hip” strip Stan had set out to make, but he was willing to give it a try. And apparently it worked. The strip first appeared in newspapers all over the U.S. on December 7, 1959. On December 14 Mendez congratulated Stan on the start of the strip and asked him if he would write to Publishers Syndicate asking that her commission be sent directly to her instead of to the authors. Sadly, this “little matter” would become more significant later on. Before the strip was launched, a lot of promotional material was produced and sent to the newspapers carrying the strip. DeCarlo drew several one-panel silent gags and a large composition of all the characters (including a new, transformed version of Barney the Cop). An interview with the creators was provided, with fresh new photos of the team: Men Behind Willie Lumpkin Stan Lee and Dan DeCarlo Work “Just For Laughs!” Working for laughs is a serious business for writer Stan Lee and cartoonist Dan DeCarlo—creators of Willie Lumpkin, Glenville’s Merry Mailman, street corner philosopher and the newest star on The Name of Paper’s comic page. “Funny gags are easy to come by,” according to Stan, “but picking familiar scenes and believable situations is a full time job, requiring a lot of looking and listening in typical towns and suburbs that make up Willie Lumpkin’s fictional ‘Glenville.’”

Willie Lumpkin originally contained just one panel per day, à la Miss Peach. Seen here are the Lee/DeCarlo dailies for Dec. 1 & 3, 1960. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

In an average week Lee writes two or three dozen ideas for Willie Lumpkin—then confers with De Carlo for a full day. Dan selects and sketches the ten best situations from the standpoint of visual presentation. From these

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Neither Sleet Nor Snow… A sampling of Lee & DeCarlo’s Dec. 1960 Willie Lumpkin dailies—after the one-panel approach had been abandoned. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

the artist and writer pick the seven final strips for a week of Willie Lumpkin in finished art. “If people like Willie Lumpkin’s casual type of humor I guess it’s because we try to pick out funny things that the reader can readily recognize—because he or she experiences many of the same situations in day to day living,” Lee observes. Creators Suburbanites Both Lee and De Carlo declare their biggest asset in creating Willy Lumpkin rests simply in being “average type guys themselves.” A native and present resident of New York’s Westchester County, artist De Carlo, 39, has been illustrating suburban and small town scenes ever since graduating from the Art Students League in 1942. He now lives in suburban Scarsdale, with his wife and twin sons.

Stan Lee is almost an “exurbanite,” residing with his wife, daughter, four dogs, and a meat market type cat in Hewlett Harbor on Long Island. “As a child, I wanted to be the usual fireman, policeman, circus performer, and baseball star,” Lee confides, “so naturally, I became a writer!” He was born in 1922. Veteran Humorists A veteran of more than 20 years experience as a humor writer and editor, Lee is a member of the Writers Guild of America, the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, The Newspaper Comics Council, the Cartoonists Committee of the President [Eisenhower]’s People to People Program, and the National Cartoonists Society. What, besides laughs, are Lee and De Carlo working for through Willie Lumpkin? “Maybe we are trying to draw a

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was not such a bad ploy. In fact, it had been used to great effect in recent years by Mort Walker and Dik Browne’s Hi and Lois, a strip to which Willie Lumpkin at times bore more than a passing resemblance, especially after the single-panel format was dropped. And it worked. Lee and DeCarlo’s initial sales list was impressive. It included many of the larger papers, which is why it is not very hard to still get Sunday or daily examples of the strip. Collecting material for a complete book would be harder, but not impossible (hint, hint). An early list compiled by Toni Mendez included big regional papers such as the New York Mirror, the Washington Post, the They Used To Deliver Mail On Sunday? Dallas Morning News, the Salt Lake City Tribune, Lee & DeCarlo’s Willie Lumpkin for Sunday, May 29, 1960. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.] the Chicago Sun-Times, better picture of growing the Los Angeles Times, the suburbia, and the relaxing Indianapolis Star, the Miami Herald, the advantage of smaller Boston Globe, the Milwaukee Journal, and towns,” De Carlo suggests. the San Antonio Express. Lee then hastens to add, But, despite eventually having more “But we never overlook our than 50 papers, many of which were city friends. Maybe Willie well-paying big ones, the revenue for Lumpkin’s real message to the strips seems to have let them down. them is, ‘You never had it When the contract was finally signed in so good—so stay where August 1960 (a full half-year after the you are!’” Though now a strip had started), a special clause was confirmed suburbanite, added that hinted at problems behind Stan still adds with some pride that he belongs to a select group of “nearly extinct native New Yorkers.” Seeing Stan Lee’s later remarks, the whole “suburban” angle seems a bit overplayed, but actually it

His Appointed Rounds (Above:) Willie Lumpkin is remembered today chiefly because Stan had penciler Jack Kirby draw an elderly mailman into the offbeat story “A Visit with The Fantastic Four” in FF #11 (Feb. 1962). Actually, Mr. Lumpkin’s first name isn’t given in the yarn—but can there be any doubt? Inks by Dick Ayers. Thanks to Barry Pearl for the scan. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Left:) The weird thing is, by the time Stan played a mailman (not specifically referred to as Willie Lumpkin) in the 2005 film Fantastic Four, four-plus decades and a white mustache had given The Man at least a passing resemblance to the “Mr. Lumpkin” of FF #11 fame! [TM & © 20th Century Fox.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Stanely Lumpkin Just for a zane, Ger Apeldoorn decided that Stan Lee’s movie-cameo mailman should have his own single-panel comic strip (along with a proper name)—and persuaded Dutch artist Boy Akkerman to draw and color a few examples of same, as their own 95th birthday tribute to Stan. The result is, we think, at least as engaging as many of the strips now gracing our daily newspapers! Nice job, guys—and we suspect Stan will appreciate it, as well! [© Ger Apeldoorn & Boy Akkerman.]

the scenes and gives us a number from which we can deduce the total amount of profit made. The contract itself was not very different from the one signed for Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs. Lee and DeCarlo together got 50% of the net profits, net being defined as gross without the cost for prints and proofs, etc. Toni Mendez would get 10% of her clients’ take, to be paid by the syndicate directly to her after the say-so of Stan and Dan. The contract was for ten years, and there was no guaranteed minimum. The strip could be pulled by either side if the income dropped below $600 a month for each of the creators, $1200 in total. For that they would deliver all material, the dailies ten weeks and the Sunday 16 weeks in advance. The Sunday was only added late in January 1960. The first one I have seen is from the 31st, and I don’t think there were any before that. Around that time, the strip was changing its look and its format, and the Sunday may have been a factor in that. For the first two months Lee and DeCarlo had taken the style and format of Main Street as the basis for Willie Lumpkin. In the gags, various townspeople talked about a subject, and at the end of the single panel Willie Lumpkin gave his final and funny comment. As they said in their publicity interview, he was indeed a street corner philosopher. DeCarlo used the “modern” style he had developed for Main Street, with the bodies of his figures smaller than usual and their heads a little bit larger. The total effect was of one of a UPA-style cartoon, much more “urban” than “suburban.”

At the end of January this approach was abandoned. Stan started writing “normal” gags and DeCarlo went back to his old style, the one he had been using all through the 1950s (and which would bring him fame if not fortune when he migrated to Archie Comics in the ’60s). Maybe it was because the Sunday was not suited to the “street corner” type of gag, but Miss Peach had survived without those for many years. Anyway, the Sunday was not the only thing that was added to the contract. In the course of the first half year, a problem had arisen concerning the payment of Toni Mendez. For some reason, Stan Lee did not give the syndicate the go-ahead to pay her directly—and he did not pay her himself, either. Maybe he was waiting for the contract to be signed, and this was his only means of pressure? When the contract was finally made up, a separate clause was added stating that Toni Mendez was to immediately receive her rights payment of $2050 for the period between December 7 and July 31. Working backwards, this means that, between them, Lee and DeCarlo would have earned $20,500 over the first seven months. The financial dispute between Stan Lee and Toni Mendez went on for the rest of the year. Harold Anderson, a good friend of Mendez’s, refused to be drawn into the fight. In the end it all got settled and everyone seemed happy. But it was all for nothing. In early 1961 the curtain fell for Willie Lumpkin. In a handwritten note dated March 30, Anderson notified Mendez. He mentions the decline in revenue and blames it partly on the current recession, with most papers cutting strips and columns radically. Unless the trend was halted, he informed her, the syndicate would notify

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

two books, Golfers Anonymous and Blushing Blurbs, both dated sometime in 1961. To do so, he created Madison Publishing , a self-owned, self-run company. Golfers Anonymous was the more ambitious of the two. It had 62 pages and sold for $1.50. In its introduction, Stan wrote: “On the following pages, you will find a candid portrait of human beings engaged in a national craze. They are a strange frenetic species, sometimes referred to as GOLFUS FANATICUS.” Stan himself was not a fanatic golfer, but most of the cartoonists he Out Of Uniform hobnobbed with at the NCS In this strip for Sunday, April 2, 1961, Willie seems to have the day off—but without his trusty mailbag, the strip has were. Maybe he thought it no focus to build around. By Lee & DeCarlo. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.] would be a way to be one of them. The book had not only the papers that the strip would be discontinued in a month or photos, but also a handful of drawings, most of which seem to have two. Mendez replied that was a shame, especially after all the been done by Timely artist/colorist Stan Goldberg. In fact, Michael “headaches” the strip had caused for both of them. In fact, the end Vassallo—who has one of the ultra-rare copies of this book— came even sooner. Willie Lumpkin dodged his last dog on May 6, recalls that someone (maybe Goldberg himself) told him that Jack and on Sunday May 28 he made his last “special delivery.” Kirby assisted on one of the pictures as well. But alas, none can be So what went wrong with Willie Lumpkin—apart from a identified as such. The photos themselves are sometimes doctored. recession, everyone’s favorite scapegoat in any decade? Well, it Not to help the joke, but to superimpose Stan’s own face over that seems to me that a lot of the blame lies with Stan Lee. I am just as of the golfer’s. To accompany that, he added a final word of caution: big a fan of his work as the next guy (okay, maybe even more so), “Don’t be surprised if any of these golfers look disconcertingly but it seems to me that the only two things the strip had going for it familiar. One of them might be… you.” were the weird single-panel-per-day format of the first few months Blushing Blurbs was a whole different project. It was thinner and the art of Dan DeCarlo. With Willie Lumpkin at the center of than the Golfers book and slightly wider. It consisted only of things as a “street philosopher,” the rest of the town was just that: photos with captions, and the subject was as racy as Stan has the rest of the town. There were no characters developed other ever produced. Several collectors believe Stan may have written than their functions: the cop, the butcher, the barber. And that was some of the funny captions in the Humorama books Abe Goodman okay, because the strength of the strip was its commentary. This produced all through the ’50s for his bother (and Stan’s “uncle”) was the ’60s, and satire was beginning to become the driving force Martin Goodman, but there is no proof of that. Here we see Stan behind many forms of humor. Stan had seen the trend and grabbed doing it on his own, and although the photos are a bit tamer than it as his own. But when he dropped the single-panel format and they were in the Humorama titles at that time, the gags are pretty went back to “regular” gags, he failed to developed a support sharp. I am submitting one of the raciest to go with this article, but cast around Willie. He tried, but seemed unable to commit. The it may well be that either Roy Thomas or TwoMorrows will find strip was as funny as its last joke, and after a while all jokes about it too much for a family line of magazines. Maybe Stan thought mailmen started to look alike. so, too. When he returned to his photos-and-gags format for the For a short time in the fall of 1960, he seemed to have found 2008 election spoof Election a groove, when he developed a newly married husband and wife Daze, he told reporters that he couple called The Justweds. But they were too close to Hi and decided to do so when a fan Lois, and there was no real reason for Willie Lumpkin to become showed him a copy of Golfers involved with them so much. At the end of 1960, the crew at the Anonymous. No mention of post office was introduced, with a postmaster, Mr. McSnort. He Blushing Blurbs. Another even got his own protégé, named Sterling, which made for a couple reason this book is interesting of very funny jokes. But somehow, all these characters were ditched to the fans is because Stan in the new year as well. chose his wife Joan to model for the cover. It may have been the only picture that Madison Man was especially taken for the And so we come to the last of Stan’s efforts to get out from publication. under the wing of his uncle-by-marriage, Martin Goodman. This time, he did it all on his own, without the help of Toni Mendez. Golfers Anonymous Somewhere early in the 1960s, he decided to give the captionedThe cover of the portrayal of photo books another go. Harvey Kurtzman had begun doing them “GOLFUS FANATICUS,” as written by in his own magazine, Humbug, and Stan must have felt justified Stan Lee. Thanks to Dr. Michael J. to take the risk to self-publish. In a short time, he came up with Vassallo. [TM & © Stan Lee.]

Stan Lee’s Thankfully Fruitless Attempts To Escape Comicbooks (1956-1962)

Know Your ABCs The cover of Stan’s (then-titled) ABC Doodle Book, courtesy of the Stan Lee Collection at the University of Wyoming. [TM & © Stan Lee.]

debut throughout the first seven or eight months of 1962: The Incredible Hulk, “Spider-Man” for Amazing Fantasy, “Thor” for Journey into Mystery, and “Ant-Man” for Tales to Astonish? All of a sudden, maybe it looked to Stan as if this comicbook thing might still have a bit of life left in it.

Blushing Blurbs Joan Lee was a good sport, posing for the cover (above left) of hubbie Stan’s racy photo-caption publication. At right, according to Ger, is one of the racier entries therein. [TM & © Stan Lee.]

And that’s not all. In researching this article, I came across a mention in the Copyright Archives for yet another Madison Publishing book, filed by Stanley Lieber (then still Stan’s real name). Apparently, he wanted to follow up the first two books with a third one, called My Own Executive ABC Doodle Book. It was 32 pages long (8 ½” by 14” size paper) and consisted of a Mad-type funny primer for executives, combining two of the most popular satire crazes of that time: spoof doodle books and anything to do with executives. A couple of years later he would probably have added a coloring section as well. The most remarkable aspect of this very slight and inconsequential booklet is the fact that Stan did all the doodles himself. That may seem surprising until you realize that Stan always did a bit of cartooning on the side and had even drawn some posters and other materials during the Second World War (like the famous “VD? Not Me” poster). And, with the title in hand, it turned out to be in the Stan Lee Collection at Wyoming University all along. Maybe it had not been catalogued until recently or maybe everyone just glossed over it, but there it was. From that notation it even seems it was indeed published, in 1962. Since no one has ever turned up a copy, he may have just made a complete copy proof and abandoned the project before the booklet went to the printers. So there he was, Stan Lee, still Mr. Stanley Lieber, at the turn of 1961. All his efforts to get out of comics had failed. Full of energy, but nowhere to go. A lifetime of dead-end comicbooks ahead of him. And then Martin Goodman came in the office and asked if it wasn’t time to try some of their super-heroes again. Stan sighed and began to come up with ideas. And that’s why I said, some pages back, that everything seems to have changed for Stan circa spring of 1962, when he seems to have finally abandoned his attempts to get out of the comicbook business. Is it just coincidence that that’s around the time that reasonably dependable sales figures for the first two or three issues of Fantastic Four would have been received—while that mag’s obvious success had already led Goodman to put Stan to work on several new hero-features that would

And how happy do we really think that the comicbook industry, or comicbook readers, would be today if Stan Lee had found a way out of comics by the early 1960s? Ger Apeldoorn is a comicbook and comic strip historian in the Netherlands who has written for Alter Ego about Harvey Kurtzman, Stan Lee, and Mad comics’ imitators. His recent book (with Craig Yoe) about the Mad magazine imitations, Behaving MADly, has recently been published by IDW and is doing very well, thank you. He is also known for “The Fabulous Fifties,” a blog about the comic art of what he calls “the most underwritten decade” of American comic art history. There, you will also find numerous additional scans of Willie Lumpkin and Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs that could not be squeezed into this issue of A/E. His most recent comics project is Star Barz, a science-fiction spoof of coffee-sellers in space. In his spare time he makes money by writing for Dutch television. The writer of this article would like to thank the Ohio State Bill Ireland Cartoon Library for having the Toni Mendez Collection in the first place, and curators Jenny Robb and Susan Liberator for making it easy to do the research. Be warned: Although they host these files (and many others), they do not deliver the right to reprint. We would also like to thank Stan Lee for allowing parts of his letters to be quoted. His and Joan’s letters and notes are © 2017 Stan Lee. For the Dan DeCarlo material, Bill Morrison was very helpful; his book on the artist (Innocence and Seduction: The Art of Dan DeCarlo, Fantagraphics, 2006) is still available on Amazon, and is highly recommended. For the other material, our thanks go to Russ Heath, Frankie Colletta, J.L. Mast, and Florentino Floréz. Russ Heath is still doing cover re-creations, so check out his appearances. Florentino’s 2014 book on Heath (Flesh and Steel: The Art of Russ Heath, IDW) contains the Li’l Repute material (from Russ’ own collection) and much, much more. Frankie Colletta is working on a self-published photo book about his dad, Vinnie—so have a look for that.

Ger Apeldoorn at the San Diego Comic-Con, 2017. Photo courtesy of the author.

All the illustrations are represented herein with their copyrights intact. When in doubt, we tried to contact the probable owners, who at all times retain such rights as are still held. We would like to note that the Willie Lumpkin in Lee and DeCarlo’s 1959-61 comic strip is a totally separate character from the later Marvel Universe Lumpkin (who was, in fact, just an homage to the newspaper character), and the use of the name here should not be taken as a copyright infringement.

“Get Me Out Of Here!”

The Marvel Universe Is What Happens To You While You’re Busy Making Other Plans! These splash pages, from mags that went on sale within a few weeks of each other in late spring or so of 1962, show what Stan Lee was up to at that time as editor, writer, and/or plotter for the proto-Marvel Comics: Spider-Man’s debut in Amazing Fantasy #15 (Aug.; art by Ditko)… Thor’s origin in Journey into Mystery #83 (Aug.; script by Larry Lieber; art by Kirby & Sinnott)… Ant-Man’s in Tales to Astonish #35 (Sept.; script by Lieber; art by Kirby & Ayers)… The Incredible Hulk #3 (Sept.; art by Kirby & Ayers)… Fantastic Four #6 (art by Kirby & Ayers; the issue that teamed Dr. Doom and the Sub-Mariner, and introduced Lee and Kirby as characters in the story). And that doesn’t count the “Millie” and “Patsy” books and a Western or two—with “Iron Man” and a “Human Torch” series in the works. Small wonder Stan decided to shelve his non-comicbook ventures for the indeterminate future! Thanks to Barry Pearl, Bob Bailey, & Doug Martin. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Orlando & Wood, from Captain Science #4 (1951).[© the respective copyright holders.]

Art by John Romita. Captain America TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

The Second Coming Of STAN Rebooting The Marvel Age In Britain – In The 1970s by Robert Menzies

he year 1972 is a significant one in Marvel history. That was the year Stan Lee handed over the editorial reins to his successors and took the (figurative) elevator up to his new office as publisher and president. What is less well-known, and what makes 1972 even more significant than is generally recognized, is that it was also the year of Stan’s Second Coming.

The Mighty World Of Stan In the British Isles in the autumn of 1972, Marvel launched The Mighty World of Marvel (hereafter MWOM). Until then, Marvel heroes had haphazardly appeared in magazines and books in Britain alongside a variety of comics features by other publishers. It was such a pale representation of the company that the very name “Marvel” was absent. Those experiments failed. So, when the House of Ideas finally launched its own line of weekly reprint comics, they—and Stan—were perfectly positioned to follow the template that had worked so well in the USA. By the early 1970s the Marvel brand as defined by Stan had been road-tested and refined, not just in terms of characters— arguably all the main characters except the second generation of X-Men had been created— but also the slogans and rallying cries, the ranks of Marveldom, the No-Prize, Soapboxes, Bulletin pages, merchandise, and so on. The advent of MWOM was quickly followed by the launch of FOOM, which was heavily promoted in the UK, so all the stars were neatly aligning. Added to this was one crucial marketing decision: unlike in the States in the early 1960s, the rebooted Marvel would make Stan Lee the centre of their universe from Day One. Here, then, are the eight reasons that explain why Stan “The Man” Lee can take an enormous amount of credit for making British Marvel a success and also explain why he is a bigger icon in Britain than anywhere else in the world.

Written By Stan The Man! In the U.S. Marvel comics published in the 1960s, Stan the writer was seemingly ubiquitous. However, his output was magnified a great deal in Britain, as a schedule of weekly rather than monthly comics concentrated and accelerated his work. Anyone

Mighty Marvel Takes Over The Mighty World! Stan Lee in 1974, introducing the first issue of the Marvel UK edition of Dracula Lives! (a couple of years after Marvel first took a bite of the British Adam’s apple)—flanked by the Buscema-penciled cover of the weekly Mighty World of Marvel #1, dated Oct. 7, 1972. The photo of Stan and his dialogue (however authentic or un- it may be) were prepared under the direction of Sol Brodsky, who reported directly to Stan and was in charge of Marvel UK at least into the 1980s, though his name rarely appeared in the British publications. Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn & the Grand Comics Database, respectively. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

picking up MWOM #1 read the first appearances of “The Fantastic Four,” “Spider-Man,” and “The Incredible Hulk” the same day, whereas the original debuts are spread over nine months in the U.S. Moreover, for the first two years at least, some characters like Spider-Man had an entire U.S. edition reprinted every single week.

Stan Lee Sounds Off! Right from the outset, Stan was very keen that British Marvel foster the same clubhouse friendliness and reader-engagement that characterized the Marvel Age in the U.S. Even if Stan wasn’t

The Second Coming Of Stan

The Face Of Marvel Stan was Marvel’s omnipresent writer, figurehead, and spokesman, even for surveys, competitions, or holiday greetings.

Twin Triumphs (Left:) It took less than four years for Mighty World of Marvel to reach issue #200, dated July 29, 1976; by then, it had spun off several other weekly titles. Cover by Larry Lieber, utilizing the styles of Kirby, et al. Thanks to Robert Menzies for this and all art spots accompanying this article, except where otherwise stated. We regret that we could present herein only a tiny fraction of the previously-unseen-in-the-U.S. artwork with which Robert provided us; we’ll have to do another “Marvel UK” piece one of these days! (Right:) Marvel’s own 1970s fanzine, FOOM, began life with a first issue dated Spring ’73 and a cover sporting a portrait of a bearded Stan, under editor Jim Steranko. Copies were quickly also shipped to Britain, as heralded by this ad from MWOM #31 (May 5, 1973). The Brits, of course, call ads “adverts”—and why shouldn’t they? [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

directly leading the British Department on a day-to-day basis, the proven and successful template they were following was undeniably his and one he very deliberately wanted followed. For most of the weeklies in the ’70s, Stan penned welcoming introductions for debut issues. In late 1972 and well into 1973 he also had a monthly “A Special Message from Stan Lee!” column in MWOM and Spider-Man Comics Weekly (SMCW), which was soon renamed “Stan Lee Sounds Off!” After a hiatus of almost a year, “Stan’s Soapboxes” also appeared, starting in April 1974. (Technically, the earliest “Soapbox” dates from one year before this, when the very first U.S. Soapbox, from May 1967, was repurposed as a “Stan Lee Sounds Off!” column in MWOM #25 [March 24, 1973].) Of the thirty-five “Soapboxes” I have so far located in the weeklies, about a third are apparently new. I believe it is possible that some may be ghostwritten, although Tony Isabella has strongly disagreed with that suspicion, citing a conversation with Stan in which the latter was unwilling to sign his name to words he had not written himself. His messages became more sporadic as the 1970s progressed, although as late as the early 1980s he was still contributing statements.

New Art For Old Stories The interior pages of Marvel UK’s weeklies were in black-&-white. In the early days, “bridging” splashes (created when a 20-page story was cut in two) were usually created from the U.S. mag’s cover. Starting around 1975, new art and text were created to “bridge” the two parts, usually in Marvel’s U.S. offices, as per this new splash for Marvel UK’s Avengers #145 (June 22, 1976), for which unidentified American artists and writers concocted a new drawing illustrating a scene in the middle of the bisected U.S. Avengers #91 (Aug. 1971), early in the Kree-Skrull War. Got all that? [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The first survey with an image of Stan dates from as early as MWOM #11 (Dec. 16, 1972). A follow-up questionnaire three weeks later led to one of the most bizarre Stan Lee images in history: in a promo for FOOM, he’s using The Human Torch as a chair! [See p. 57.] This policy of presenting Stan as Marvel personified continued for some time. Seasonal messages from Stan appeared on the back of issues released at Christmas 1973 and 1974. When the experimental landscape comics (see p. 63) were launched in late ’75, a full-page photo image of Stan appealed for feedback. There are many other examples. Marie Severin was usually involved in drawing his likeness, and her drawings of him were also utilized in ads for new weeklies and comic book classic titles like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. From 1972 up to at least March 1982 Stan was involved in some capacity with many competitions. For instance, the annual Marvel Mastermind competition’s winners and runners-up prizes were always signed by Stan, whether it was sketches, certificates, books, or calendars. Sometimes he judged competitions, as when he was head judge of the design-a-hero competition in 1973. One of the most confusing of these competitions was from

Rebooting The Marvel Age Of Comics In Britain—In The 1970s

Marvel Milestones—In Various Shades Along with the Fantastic Four origin, Mighty World of Marvel #1 offered the 1962 contents of The Incredible Hulk #1 and Spider-Man’s origin from Amazing Fantasy #15. This allowed the British audience to see Ol’ Greenskin in his ultimate skin tone from the start; in fact, Robert Menzies says, “with the spot colour we had then, the only colour we saw [throughout the issue, except for the covers] was green!” The first issue’s back cover (in full color unlike the rest Spidey’s origin, since Marvel UK was paying for four colors for the cover, it got them free for #1’s final page) replaces only the next-issue blurb on the last page of that 11-pager from Amazing Fantasy #15. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

February 1975, when signed items from Stan were runners-up prizes in a contest to name a non-existent satellite! (The winners won color TVs!) We also saw ads for the Fireside books such as Origins of Marvel Comics, Sons of Origins, and Bring on the Bad Guys. British fans rarely had opportunities to buy U.S. specials—a common lament in letters pages—with the exception of these books, early Treasuries, and FOOM. Lastly, in 1974 and 1975 the British weeklies also went through a period of reprinting old magazine interviews with Stan from Punch, Cue, and the New Musical Express.

The Creation And Promotion Of Captain Britain While not the first British super-hero created by Marvel, Captain Britain was the first specifically created for a British audience. Stan was involved throughout the good Captain’s development, coining the (admittedly predictable) name and even writing memos with his thoughts on the masthead design. For the launch he traveled to the UK and made a five-city promotional tour of Scotland and England. (See Back Issue #83 for more on that, and on the moral panic that Stan stumbled into the middle of due to his unfortunate timing.)

The British Bullpen Continuing the theme of an ever-present Stan, for years the vast majority of letters from British fans opened “Dear Stan,” and the London office—at least initially—were complicit in maintaining the illusion that he was present. [W]e saw Stan sneaking out the back with his do-ityourself chemistry set the other day. Hey! Do you think that’s how he cooks up his story ideas? SMCW #3 (March 3, 1973) I am very happy with your publication and with the greatest writer and editor in all comicdom – Stan Lee! Mark Griffiths, Repton, Derbyshire

Making Brits Feel “Special” (Right:) “Stan’s Soapbox,” as reconfigured for Britain for MWOM #1. (Far right:) These print-bites would soon be retitled “Stan Lee Sounds Off!,” as seen in Spider-Man Comics Weekly #1 (Feb. 17, 1973). [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Second Coming Of Stan

As for your comment about Stan, he was so pleased that he’s going to be impossible to live with for at least a week! Sheesh! SMCW #4 (March 10, 1973) Later that decade, when the British Bullpen was based in Sevenoaks, they labeled a door with Stan’s name so that if any young fans came calling they could say he was in conference or out of the office! Not everyone was fooled, of course. In The Avengers #108 (October 11, 1975) a Neil Fisher of Merseyside asked: “Could you tell me why the people who write to you start their letters off with ‘Dear Stan,’ when Stan can’t possibly read them, and he is over in the USA?” The printed answer:

Stan As The Face (& Hotseat) Of Marvel (Above left & right:) Mirthful Marie Severin looks to have had a hand in the art on both these color “questionnaires”—the first from MWOM #11 (Dec. 16, 1972), the second from #14 (Jan. 6, 1973). [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Is This Maybe How Dr. Doom Got His Start? (Above:) A page from Spider-Man Comics Weekly #62 (April 20, 1974) has Stan announcing a brand new art competition—with readers submitting ideas for new super-villains. He apparently had help with the judging, though. [TM & (C) Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[L]etters are read by the Bullpen and analysis of them is sent to Stan. Stan reads this and directs the general path which the replies should follow. So … it’s reasonable to argue that each and every letter to Marvel is a letter to Stan.

Stan Packed A Punch! This 1972 half-article/half-interview re Stan for the British publication Punch was reprinted in one of the Marvel UK weeklies. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Rebooting The Marvel Age Of Comics In Britain—In The 1970s

Captain Britain Can Take It! (Right:) Stan’s message to UK readers upon the introduction of the new (U.S.produced) hero Captain Britain, flanked by (above left) the cover of Captain Britain #1 (Oct. 13, 1976) was pencilled by Larry Lieber and inked by Frank Giacoia; and (above right) the cover of CB #16 (Jan. 26, 1977), in which, inevitably, Captains Britain and America go at it hammer and tongs, before they team up in the next issue to clobber the bad guys. Artists unknown —but Herb Trimpe and Marie Severin illustrated the promo ad at right. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

This contorted justification is, perhaps surprisingly, basically true. Breakdowns of letter content were prepared in London and sent to the New York office. The admission of Stan’s absence notwithstanding, the majority of letters continued to open with the words “Dear Stan.”

Spearheading Promotions Stan has always felt an affinity with the British Isles and, like many Americans, has a rather romanticized view of the English in particular. I like Shakespeare more than anything. 1967 interview for The Penguin Book of Comics I’m an Anglophile, I really love things British. I love Shakespeare and Sherlock Holmes and everything. 2013 Interview with PlayStation Limited (http://www.psillustrated.com/psillustrated/news.php/1551)

“Merry X-Man!”—Uh, We Mean, “Merry X-Mas!” (Above:) Stan and a couple of costumed acquaintances decorate a Christmas tree on the back cover of Marvel UK’s Avengers #67 (Dec. 28, 1974). As usual, Marie Severin probably contributed some of the art; other artists not identified. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

He’s even gone so far as to say “I wish I were British” in a 2012 interview with TNT Magazine #1484 (February 6-12, 2012)! Even correcting for Stan’s natural instincts for exaggeration, flattery, and producing a great sound bite for an interviewer, that’s a telling comment. He is especially enamoured with London. When interviewed for Geeky Monkey magazine’s April 2017 edition, he said about the Sky TV series Stan Lee’s Lucky Man:

The Second Coming Of Stan

One other little-known family justification for visits to our shores is that during the 1970s his daughter J.C. was living with her Tennessee-born boyfriend, Isaac Tigrett, in Chelsea, an affluent southwest London borough. According to wiki, even today Chelsea has one of the largest communities of Americans living outside the United States. Tigrett, incidentally, was the co-founder of the Hard Rock Café and eventually married Maureen Starkey, Ringo Starr’s ex-wife. So, even before you start to consider the business aspect of Stan’s life, he was already strongly inclined to make the journey across the Atlantic for family reasons and because of his own personal fascination with Britain. He was able to combine business and pleasure, which is why it’s probably no coincidence that the two promo tours that ventured outside of London—in 1976 and 1991—passed through Newcastle. While the frequency of the purely personal trips is unknowable, we can list Stan’s official trips with a fair degree of accuracy. On January 4, 1971, he attended a comic exhibition in London, although it would seem his main or at least additional motivation was to check out the lay of the land with regards to a new line of Marvel comics. In autumn 1972 he led the promotion around the advent of MWOM, the British line’s flagship title. The following year the editor wrote in MWOM #30 (June 30, 1973): We’ll let you in on a secret. Stan was here, and then he went back to New York. Then he jetted back to London, and then went back to New York again. Right at this moment he could be in London or New York. Or he could be forty thousand feet above the Atlantic, having left one capital and en route for the other.

The British Invasion—Going The Other Way! When The Invaders was scheduled to be reprinted in the Super Spider-Man weekly, a color ad heralded the event. Invaders art by Frank Robbins & John Romita; the other art is a mix of various Photostats by Buscema, et al. It made sense to reprint The Invaders in Marvel UK weeklies, since many of their World War II adventures were set in Merry Olde, and two early members—Union Jack and Spitfire—were English. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

One of those confirmed 1973 trips appears to have been later, in September, as Stan was in London recording a voice-over for a TV commercial for the new Avengers comic. He returned at least twice in 1974: in March to publicize The Super-Heroes and Savage Sword of Conan; then again in October for

One of the things I love about the series is that it’s like a travelogue of London. To me London is one of the most dramatic and beautiful cities in the world. With all this in mind, it’s maybe no great surprise that Stan married an Englishwoman. Joan, or Joanie, who passed away earlier this year at the age of 95, hailed from Newcastle in the north or England, where the locals are called “Geordies.” This is from a 23 October 2011 interview with the English Sunday Sun: When I first went to meet her, a stunning, drop-dead beautiful redhead opened the door. When she spoke, her soft, Geordie accent ran up and down my spine. [my emphasis] (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/ comic-book-legend-stan-lee-1406071) Joanie, for her part, always felt the pull of home. This was another reason for Stan to channel-hop, even if it’s not known how often he accompanied her. Joanie said in the same Sunday Sun article quoted above that she “used to go back to Newcastle a lot, to see my friends…. I still have relatives in Whitley Bay.”

Stan Across The Pond A magazine article heralding Stan’s journey to London in the mid-1970s to promote the launch of two new weeklies: Dracula Lives! and the licensed Planet of the Apes. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Rebooting The Marvel Age Of Comics In Britain—In The 1970s

two new titles, Planet of the Apes and Dracula Lives. He spoke at the Institute of Contemporary Arts (ICA) in London on 3 March, 1975, and during that visit to Britain apparently judged a design-a-hero competition at the London office with the help of famous English cartoonist Frank Dickens. There was also “An Evening with Stan Lee” at the Birmingham Comic Mart on March 8. A number of letters pages refer to his British TV appearances on Pebble Mill at One (a lunchtime “magazine”-style chat show), complete with Herb Trimpe and a table of comics, and Magpie (a children’s programme). Both are referred to in letters published in early and mid-1975. Viewers described Stan as “marvellous” and “great” and “Gee, he’s a nice guy” (respectively, The Super-Heroes #13-14 [May 31 and June 7, 1975].) After a stream of teasing announcements, Stan returned to London later that year to promote the experimental landscape comic The Titans, and on 20 October, 1975—arguably the greatest day in British fandom—he also attended a Marvel art exhibition at the ICA, where he encountered pop stars Marc Bolan and Roy Wood. The former even interviewed Stan for BBC Radio 4! That evening Stan hosted the legendary Roundhouse Theatre event with Hulk alumnus Herb Trimpe, who was then midway through a year-long stay in Cornwall, England. That show received an excellent two-page feature in January comics of the following year. Twelve months passed before Stan’s next confirmed trip, in October of 1976, which was a five-city tour of Scotland and England to promote Captain Britain. That trip is worth noting, as

Who’s That Webbed Guy With Stan Lee? A whole page of photos taken of Stan at a London signing was printed in Captain Britain #10 (Dec. 15, 1976). Either Stan was having a blast—or he at least managed to look like he was. Chances are, he was energized by the British fans’ enthusiasm. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

he arrived during a media storm around a banned (non-Marvel) comicbook called Action. During the moral panic, which was so prominent it was discussed in Parliament, Stan had to defend Marvel on British TV. More happily, this may also have been the trip when ex-Beatle Sir Paul McCartney called Stan up and invited him round for tea. (An encounter depicted in Amazing, Fantastic, Incredible [2015].) The two pop culture giants discussed a collaboration, although it never went further than John Romita sketches. (See Back Issue #101 for a detailed analysis of the long history between the men, which began with McCartney recording a song titled “Magneto and Titanium Man” and Stan awarding the McCartneys rare FFFs!)

Joan Lee is usually mentioned in comics histories for suggesting to husband Stan in 1961 that he write the new Fantastic Four comicbook just the way he wanted to; but, as noted on pp. 31-33, she also played an active part in pushing Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs! Seen here are an article and photo from a Newcastle, UK, newspaper of Dec. 24, 1962, when she and Stan took a trip back to her homeland. Sadly, Mrs. Lee passed away earlier this year at the age of 95. Thanks to Danny Fingeroth, and to the Stan Lee Collection at the University of Wyoming. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Radio and print interviews during this period are too numerous to list, with the October 1976 trip alone having eighteen press engagements, including appearances on Nationwide (a current affairs programme) and the 6 p.m. news on STV (Scottish Television). In private e-mails to this writer, Alan Murray, art director in the British offices between February 1973 and October 1976, described Stan’s visits as a “whirlwind.” Murray also had this to say about his visits:

The Second Coming Of Stan

A Roundhouse Blow (Above:) Incredible Hulk (and sometime Captain Britain) artist Herb Trimpe was on hand as well, when Stan made a fabled appearance at London’s Roundhouse Theatre. Trimpe was temporarily living in the Cornwall region of England at the time. (Top right:) Among the many photos taken of that event are ones of Stan with British pop stars Marc Bolan and Roy Wood; but the main thing, in Stan’s mind, were the fans who mobbed the place. After all, they’re the ones who brought the mags! From Spider-Man Comics Weekly #155 (Jan. 31, 1976). [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

I remember them well. I can recall his cheery greeting every time: “Hi there. Al! Hi there, Neil [Tennant]! How’s it going?” For, whenever there was a launch of a new title or media event, he would be over here. In fact he much enjoyed meeting British fans and talking to news media and appearances on TV and radio to promote Mighty Marvel. What immediately comes to mind is the launch of his book Bring on the Bad Guys and the new comic Captain Britain #1 on 14 October 1976, when he was signing copies with a queue stretching down Charing Cross Road in London. Stan never spent much time in the British Bullpen office and had no role in directing their line of comics. His moraleboosting visits were brief unless he was judging a competition or signing items for winners and runners-up. He was, instead, kept busy with a hectic timetable of publicity engagements for TV, radio, newspapers, and magazines.

Forget “Lennon & McCartney”! Cue “Lee & McCartney!” Stan and Sir Paul mug for the cameras at some event or other. Some wag (probably not either of them) added dialogue!

Rebooting The Marvel Age Of Comics In Britain—In The 1970s

plane and came over to London to add his support to the launch of the company’s very first home-grown weekly. Naturally this helped tremendously, getting us stacks of TV and print coverage for the launch of Hulk Comic. But it helped on another level, too… From a plush Mayfair hotel suite, Stan was holding newspaper and magazine interviews with each journalist sent in one at a time, to add a personal touch. But 57-year-old Stan also insisted that he was using this platform to introduce 26-year-old upstart me to the media, so I’d be able to fly solo on further launch extravaganzas.

“The Americans Are Coming! The Americans Are Coming!” A house ad promoting Stan’s upcoming (Oct. 1975) trip to Britain. Artist uncertain. From the weekly Super-Heroes #31. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

As the ’70s closed, his trips to the UK, at least in an official capacity for Marvel, seem to have ended quite abruptly. It may or may not be coincidence that this coincides with Stan’s relocation to California around April 1980 and his involvement with Marvel’s live-action and animation projects. He was probably busier now, and the flight time had jumped from an unpleasant six hours to a gruelling eleven. I also suspect that his daughter J.C. had returned to the States.

Grooming His Replacement It appears Stan saw the writing on the wall in 1978 and was looking for a British successor. His savvy choice was Dez Skinn, whom he knew well and who would go on to have a hugely influential publishing career. From Skinn’s website:

That was so cool. Having Stan introduce me to the press, being actively encouraged to share answers to their questions with him, and most importantly him telling me after each one which bits I got right and which bits he felt I didn’t. An amazing and unique learning curve. Stan’s eye for spotting talent hadn’t failed him, and Skinn successfully managed the rebooting of the British line. It was apparently October 1991 before Stan made his next trip to the UK, to promote the book Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics by Les Daniels. As part of that British tour between 9-16 October, he not only appeared at comic shops in London, Nottingham, and Newcastle; he also visited Scotland for his second and final time, again stopping off in Edinburgh and Glasgow. In the latter city, he appeared in the Forbidden Planet store situated, then as now, in Buchanan Street in the city centre. The owner, James Hamilton, who has been in comic retail for four decades, tells a lovely tale of his meeting with Stan: Being October, it was dark and cold. Nevertheless, we had the biggest turnout we had seen. Stan was running slightly late so I went outside to have a look and he suddenly appeared, hand out-stretched and grinning. Still shaking my hand Stan walked me into the store. He asked me if it was my store and when I said yes he put his arm around me and thanked me for keeping the dream alive and spreading the word. I felt like a kid and could barely speak, it was just Stan as you imagined he would be. Warm, gracious, funny, and larger than life. Every person who met him left the store glowing. It was the single greatest day in my career. I don’t think I stopped smiling for a week.

Stan was due over in the UK to give a talk to an international Rotarians group. As he’d be over for a weekend… and the talk would only be 90 minutes, he asked me to join him for the two days. Stan driving in the UK for the first time, in the biggest hire car available going down small country roads at 70 mph, was a memorable experience in itself, especially his first encounter with a roundabout. So, naturally, the first thing we did when we arrived was hit the hotel bar (as somehow we’d hit nothing else during the journey). Several hours and several gins later, he admitted my Tarzan calls as we walked through a motorway underpass beat his. A final dip into the Skinn website: New York-based Stan Lee was so pleased by the turnaround in Marvel UK’s fortunes that, coupled with him being a self-confessed Anglophile, he hopped on a

Pilgrims Skinn In The Game This promo art for a Dez Skinn event in recent years accompanies an article that says he has been called “The British Stan Lee”—and obviously, he shares Stan’s skills of self-promotion. But, as Robert Menzies points out, Dez Skinn did successfully reboot the British-Marvel line! [© the respective copyright holders.]

Surprisingly, Stan’s convention appearances in the UK have been extremely rare. While he had signing sessions in 1975, 1976, and 1991, to the best of my knowledge he attended his first UK convention in the 1990s. This is perhaps not quite so surprising when you learn that, outside the annual cons in London and Birmingham, Britain did not have a convention calendar until recently. Nevertheless, it’s an odd fact, considering Stan’s prominence here.

The Second Coming Of Stan

Stan The Con Man (Left:) Stan Lee and this article’s author, Robert Menzies, at the London Film and Comics Con in February 2012 (a.k.a. the London Super Con), Stan’s “first European con.” In case you didn’t know, Robert’s the guy on our right. They’re holding a copy of a Marvel UK comic in what was called “landscape” format— a magazine wider than it was tall, with two pages of comics material on each page inside. Robert says: “Some fans grumbled that it made the art too small; personally, I loved it. I was on a strict diet of one comic a week.” (Right:) Stan with a few cosplay and other fans at the con. He even let a couple of Supergirls get into the act! Photos by Chris Gaskin.

There are no clear-cut indications of any visits during the 1980s, a contrast to the 1970s where Stan was racking up frequentflyer miles with British Airways. However, in September of 1992 and 1995, Stan attended the United Kingdom Comic Art Convention (UKCAC), although it seems that in neither case did he attend the entire weekend and only the latter was an official appearance. As far as I can ascertain, it would be nearly seventeen years before he would return again, this time as the headline guest at the inaugural London Super Comic Con on 25-26 February 2012 at the ExCel Centre, the first attempt on British soil to hold a convention similar in size to a U.S. con. He explained: I had never been invited to a big ‘super’ con before in London. This may be my last chance. My wife, Joan, who is English, said, “Why don’t you go and you can tell me about it?” So I thought I would. I love England, I have been there many times, years ago, and I wanted to see it one more time. TNT Magazine #1484 (February 6-12, 2012)

The event had the air of a mass pilgrimage, and many of the attendees—myself included—traced their adulation of Stan back to the weeklies of the 1970s. As it turns out, it wasn’t his final visit, after all. Two years later he re-appeared for what may have been his final European convention at London Film and Comic Con, held at Earls Court Exhibition Centre over 11-13 July 2014. Considering his deep involvement with establishing Marvel in Britain, and his fondness for this land, it was perfectly appropriate that his European swan song was here. The success of that convention can perhaps be measured, in part, by the fact that his official photographer estimated that over the three days he took 6,500 photos of The Man with fans!

The Man With The Plan Is Stan The core Marvel super-heroes were created by Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and Don Heck. When Marvel licensed out these characters to another company in Britain in the 1960s, the comics soon failed. Marvel’s success in Britain in the 1970s, and its continued success since, was based on the efforts of Stan Lee and the wise choice to use him as their figurehead and follow his example whenever possible. The British experiment proved beyond doubt that, while Stan and Jack created Marvel comics, it was Stan Lee who created Marvel Comics. Special thanks to Alan Murray, former art director, and Dez Skinn, former editor for Marvel UK. Thanks also go to Rob Kirby and Gerry Turnbull; James Hamilton and Derek Roulston at Forbidden Planet, Glasgow; and Ian Hine, Guy Lawley, Gary Russell, and Hass Yusuf from the Make Mine Marvel UK Facebook page.

Where’s Robbie The Robot When You Really Need Him? The date and occasion of this photo of the Forbidden Planet comics store in Glasgow, Scotland, is uncertain... but it probably looked at least this busy when Stan Lee dropped by in October 1991.

The first Marvel comic that Glasgow-born Robert ever read was Spider-Man Comics Weekly #138 (October 18, 1975), which contained two stories written by Stan and an advert for The Man’s Roundhouse appearance that month. Robert is the proud and somewhat boastful owner of a No-Prize signed and awarded by Stan himself, and in 2012 he and photographer Chris Gaskin were the only members of the press allowed to cover Stan’s final European convention appearance.

Rebooting The Marvel Age Of Comics In Britain—In The 1970s

Robert Menzies Presents:

How I Became A “Fearless Front Facer”

An Awesome American Addendum by Neil Kosaly-Meyer

had casually followed Marvel since I was 8 or 9 (1966-67)—joined the MMMS, and kept up as well as I could with a small allowance and no easy access to shops that sold comics. From the time I was twelve, I started collecting all the Marvel titles and worked my way up what Stan christened in the letters pages the “Hallowed Ranks of Marveldom,” first RFO (I was buying way more than 3 a month), then KOF (once I’d persuaded a convert). I’m not sure if got a No-Prize before I had a letter published, but the TTB and QNS happened in pretty quick succession. So there I was with my PMM, and was definitely curious how one got the FFF at all, but that information did not seem to be forthcoming.

The FF & The FFF The splash page of Neil KosalyMyer’s copy of Fantastic Four #48 (March 1966) that Stan signed for his daughter Hayley—and young Hayley’s cartoon depicting the scene in the last paragraph of Neil’s account. [Page TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; cartoon © Hayley Kosaly-Myer.] Also seen: a photo of Neil and Hayley, with a copy of The Incredible Hulk. Neil now works at the Music Museum in Seattle, Washington.

As time went on, I didn’t buy so many comics, as keeping up both a music and a comic habit was not a realistic option, and music was what had my attention as a college student. But the love for Marvel remained-there was never any question of selling that collection of a couple thousand or so books amassed through the ’70s (plus a sizable selection of ‘60s stuff I’d found in pawn shops). So when Anna and I were married, and then Hayley came along in the spring of ’90, the comics were waiting for her when she was ready. That moment came when she was five. We were in a temporary living situation without room for the whole collection, but I snagged a box at random for bedtime story purposes, and it so happened to be the box containing The Incredible Hulk, mostly those issues written by Roy Thomas and drawn by Herb Trimpe. These became an integral part of the bedtime ritual. What I didn’t know as I read those stories to her was the trouble she was having and would continue having at school among her classmates. She was frequently teased and ostracized, and this may have had to do with the autism which was diagnosed much later, or the obsessive-compulsive disorder also detected around the same time. In any case, Hayley had a persistent experience of being different, of not being understood, of being tormented, and at bedtime she heard stories and saw pictures of someone who gave a face and voice to her alienation, and that someone was the Hulk. Soon we had more spacious quarters, and more of my old boxes were brought home. Hayley systematically read through all of those thousands of comics, literally reliving my most fervent period as a fan. Of course she also saw the letters pages, the Bullpen Bulletins, and the Hallowed Ranks of Marveldom. I proudly explained that I’d attained every rank except the FFF. I don’t remember the year, but Hayley as a teenager attended an Emerald City Comic Con in Seattle where Stan Lee was going to be a guest, and he was the sole reason she was going. We agreed between us that the Fantastic Four issue introducing Galactus and the Silver Surfer would be the appropriate item to have autographed.

She stood in line all day. I had to work, so couldn’t attend with her, but she phoned me to keep me apprised of her progress. It was a serious ordeal, but she was going to meet Stan. At one point, she called and asked me about the Ranks of Marveldom, and what the big one was, so I reminded her. I didn’t receive any more calls after that. After work we checked in and coordinated our bus routes home. When I found her at the bus stop, she was as spent as I’ve ever seen anyone, and she told me the story: how the handlers were insistent that Stan was only signing his name, no special requests please. Hayley’s autism may have served her well here, as those with autism frequently don’t read social signals that well. Despite the instructions, and fervent non-verbal signals as well, Hayley explained to Stan about how I’d read The Hulk to her and what that meant, how the only rank I didn’t have was the FFF, and could he please bestow it on me in absentia. The handlers were saying no no no, but according to Hayley Stan raised his hand and said simply, “I must do this.” He then bestowed the FFF on me (even though I wasn’t there) in the form of his autograph on that classic issue of FF. After Hayley had related this story, she immediately fell asleep on my shoulder there on the bus, and left me looking at that autograph and the final rank now bestowed on me. I was stunned then, and am stunned again as I tell the story.

My Life In Little Pieces –Part II `

Continuing The 1998 Memoir By Golden/Silver Age Writer JOHN BROOME

A/E

EDITOR’S INTRO: Last issue, we began our serialization of the unusual 1998 memoir of the major 1960s writer of the Silver Age Green Lantern and Flash, who also contributed to DC’s Golden Age, as well as working for various other comics companies beginning in the mid-1930s. Irving Bernard (John) Broome’s small, intimate book was published in Japan, where he spent most of his later years, after leaving the United States in the mid-1960s originally to live in Paris with his wife and daughter. Our thanks to the latter, Ricky Terry, for permission to serialize her father’s reminiscences over a number of issues of Alter Ego. In #149, we gave a bit of background about John Broome (something he doesn’t really do in his own volume) and presented the first few pages of the work, much of them devoted to out-of-the-blue remarks by his remarkable wife Peggy. He continues with a look at their lives during the time in Japan… and at his love of the English language….

Wenkie Wenkie

iving in Japan, as I’ve been doing for the past 20 years, makes it easy to travel in southeast Asia. Incidentally, it took me some time to figure out that southwest Asia, a term I’d rarely seen, must refer to India and the countries around it. Malaysia, of course, is in SE Asia and one day, while hiking along there, I fell in with a group of small boys who began to be obstreperous. One who was larger than the rest asked me some bold questions which made his little followers giggle and shriek uproariously. Did I know about Wenkie Wenkie? Did I do Wenkie Wenkie? It sounded like the old parlor game we used to play: Do you Coffee Pot? But it turned out that Wenkie Wenkie was Australian lingo for masturbating.

John & Peggy Broome (on left in photo) with friends at Jacob’s Pillow, Massachusetts, in July 1954. The painting at bottom left, created by John and recently photographed by their daughter Ricky Terry, bears the notation: “Burma – The Irra Waddy at Pagan 1983 (1).” And that’s as close as we can get this issue to anything visually Broome-related to Malaysia, the scene of his opening anecdote—let alone to Japan. Although Broome lived in the latter for two decades, so far as we know he never wrote a single comicbook story wherein Japan played a part! Thanks also to Ricky for the 1954 photo. [Painting © 2017 Estate of John Broome.]

As we went on, the bigger lad became downright irritating in his manner and I confess to giving him a slap (maybe the only time ever to hit a child) followed by a no doubt priggish insistence on the importance of clean living. Soon after, my inquisitor took off red-faced and discomfited and I and my entourage of little ragamuffins continued for a spell. They were quiet after their leader had gone, subdued, and I began to feel I’d not wasted my time in lecturing them. At a fork in the road we parted company. They bid me goodbye politely but as we separated, they began to run wildly as little boys will do. And as the distance between us increased, in the lingering beauty of that tropical twilight, their thin, ﬂutelike voices came wafting back to me through the soft air gently as a rain of flowers falling. “Wenkie Wenkie,” they were crying joyously. “Wenkie Wenkie!” I hadn’t impressed them at all. And indeed, who was I to stand up against the ineradicable force of life that everywhere must have its way? A bit deﬂated, but yet strangely contented with this

John Broome Memoir—Continued

thought, l plodded on alone in that land of perpetual summertime where all things were accepted and where everything, no matter what, was forgiven, almost before it could happen.

Only in Japan are you likely to come across a town – Motosumi-yoshi near Tokyo – whose sad name means Things Were Better Before. will you see a sign offering “Flesh Meat” for sale, which is not just improvised English as you might suppose but a common mistake in spelling, substituting an “l” for the “r” in fresh. are you likely if you are an English teacher as was I to be asked by an admiring, low-proﬁled pupil, “How tall is your nose, Mr. Broome?” will your Japanese friend, still learning your language, greet you at year’s end with a hearty, “Have a New Year!” (to which a British chum listening may promptly echo: “And have a Christmas too!”) will you see (as I did in the teachers’ room at Aoyama Gakuin university) a Japanese man on the telephone bowing deeply before ceremoniously hanging up the receiver. can an entire nation be tuned in to one scholastic event, the nationwide high school baseball tournament in early April, at cherry blossom time just before the start of the regular baseball season. is there a monkey that drives a train. (There’s a story attached to this last item that further illustrates Japanese humor. The monkey is “at the controls” of his little train in Ueno Zoo. Saru no densha, it is called. ln 1976, a Shinkansen Bullet train departed its station and ran for 15 minutes with no one at all at the controls. Finally, an off-duty motorman who happened to be on the train became suspicious and ran to take over while the real motorman, who had been checking a faulty door, according to the account, was left behind at the station. So no one was harmed. But after the incident, a purported communication was received by a Tokyo

Let’s Not Monkey Around! Yes, yes, we know a chimpanzee isn’t technically a monkey like the precise anthropoid John mentions at left—but again, it’s the closest we can get! Carmine Infantino, who starting in 1956 would work with JB on tales of the Silver Age “Flash,” penciled and inked this first “Detective Chimp” yarn from a Broome script for The Adventures of Rex the Wonder Dog #4 (JulyAug. 1952); the artist always claimed “Chimp” was his all-time favorite series to illustrate! Thanks to Jim Kealy. [TM & © DC Comics.]

newspaper from the “monkey-motorman” who warned, “That’s very dangerous.”) are there inns or public hostelries where a man may not pee standing up after 10 P.M. due to the noise. Like it or not he has to pee sitting down. can you say about the weather only that it is good or bad (ii tenki or warui tenki) and no other adjective, like delightful or beautiful, will even be understood.

“Wrong Number!” In John Broome’s text story for Fawcett’s Master Comics #78 (April 1947), one Asa Pendrell receives a wrong-number phone call and thereby learns of a plot to murder him. There’s a mystical twist when, after he takes precautions to protect himself, he’s electrocuted through the phone by a lightning strike—only, at story’s end, technicians reveal he couldn’t have been killed that way , because that phone line had been dead for at least 24 hours! The tale bears at most a passing resemblance to the 1948 film noir Sorry, Wrong Number—which was based on a 1943 radio drama. Illustrator unknown. Thanks to Jim Kealy. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Splendor of Love’s Praise One love of my life has been English, this language of ours that is so quickly spreading over the globe, and deserves to in my estimation. Of course, if you’ve read this far you may rightly conclude that English doesn’t love me as much as l love it. Ah, yes, alas, but as a British lady I knew was fond of saying with a perky ﬂaunt of her boyish-cut head, Never mind! I love it anyway. Why? Well, let me count the ways. I love it for its sinuous spareness, its multifold moods, its heights and depths, its roots and ﬂowerings, its vigorous no-nonsense verbs. Yes, and its gritty,

My Life In Little Pieces—Part II

racy adverbs, its straightforward, upstanding noun-words, its hard-working keylike prepositions; even its little awkwardnesses and unconscionable spellings are for me only the necessary blemishes required to set off in master strokes the overwhelming grandeur of this language and its unique beauty. If language is the greatest of man’s achievements as some hold, then English is ne plus ultra of human endeavor. Don‘t ask an Englishman about English, they’re too close to it. It takes a New York Jew like me (John is only a college nickname that stuck; before that, it was lrving Bernard) to give English its due. Someday, the race of the Sceptered Isle will be renowned in the annals of a history not yet born as the race that gave English to mankind, the most marvelous and mysterious centuries-enduring burst of creation since the original Creation itself. There! You know now I’m an utter fool for English. As we used to say in the playground called Coney Island where I was a kid, Do me something! By the way, Jesperson, the great Danish authority on English, calls the language masculine, which summons back for a moment the young matron, wife of the American psychologist on the kibbutz in Israel who scorned such an outmoded, womandegrading concept as masculinity and in her ire demanded a definition. Dumbfounded by the intensity of her onslaught I could only get out something that made her jeer mockingly. I said I thought masculinity was the force that drew the male to the female (but not to her, I could have added, though truth to tell she was a looker). Anyway. I still consider it not a crassly worthless definition, nor have I been able since to come up with anything better. But reflection did produce a conclusion of another sort. I realized you can’t say the reverse, that femininity is what

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The City So Big They Had To Name It… Big Town Irving Bernard (John) Broome was proud to be what he himself termed a “New York Jew” in love with the English language. New York City being his home base probably helped him write the DC title Big Town, which was licensed from a long-running radio show that also spawned four movies and a TV series. (The city, however, was never identified by name as NYC.) This story from issue #29 (Sept.-Oct. 1954) was penciled by Manny Stallman and inked by John Giunta. Thanks to—who else?— Jim Kealy. [TM & © DC Comics.]

draws the female to the male. That doesn’t work. The two terms are not opposites as I had always assumed they were. Femininity, it appears, is a quite different article from its male counterpart, maybe a much more basic one, since there seems no way at all to get a handle on it. Unless, that is, you want to say that femininity is what the mere mention of the “essence of masculinity” can ignite into fury. Well, in that case, brother, I’m with you.

Destiny of Man Watch love Grow old Seek death And catch a cold. John Broome’s memoirs will be continued next issue, with a few words

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A montage of Pete’s greatest hits. (Clockwise:) Kid Montana, Peter Cannon... Thunderbolt, Johnny Dynamite. [© Estate of Pete Morisi & other respective copyright holders.]

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

The PAM Papers (Part 3)

by Michael T. Gilbert

his issue we continue exploring a treasure trove of comics history, courtesy of Glen D. Johnson. Glen, a former editor of The Comic Reader fanzine, was a fan of cartoonist Pete A. Morisi (who often signed his work “PAM”), who became his friend and longtime pen pal. The earliest letters, written between 1964 and 1968, are often undated. But PAM occasionally makes reference to then-current comics, which helps to nail down the approximate dates. We’ve excerpted and edited PAM’s comments for greater clarity. PAM, like Glen, was a true-blue comics fan, conversant in comicbook history (and indeed, a part of comicbook history!). Pete had strong opinions on his work and on that of his fellow artists, writers, and editors. His comments provide a fascinating snapshot of the comic scene from the ’60s on, by a respected industry insider. This issue, we’ve culled quotes from a number of letters focusing on PAM’s views of different comic book editors. But first, let’s begin with Pete Morisi’s thoughts…

On Pronouncing Names The name is pronounced MORE-EEE-SEE. Charlie Biro’s name is BEER-O. Doesn’t really matter, though. I’ve been called MORIS-EEE, MORE-EYE-SIGH, etc. Etc. Among other things.

On Charles Biro Yeah, I know Biro, I worked for him for a year or so. He is a talented guy, but as I mentioned, tough to get along with. In fact, I tried to buy the old Daredevil from him when he stopped publishing it, but he didn’t want one cash payment—he wanted to own a piece of it—always! So I backed out.

Battle Royale! (Above:) Jack Cole re-designed Jack Binder’s original Daredevil costume. From Silver Streak #7 (Jan. 1941). Whether or not Cole scripted the tale, as well, is unknown. [© the respective copyright holders; Daredevil is now TM Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[1965] “Steel Sterling was one of my favorites in the old days when Biro, and then Novick, did it. But I’m sure that MLJ will kill it once and for all this time around. Too bad. I was going to approach MLJ about a year or so ago with the idea of letting me revive The Thing for them, but I was too darn busy. PAM is referring above to Charlton’s The Thing comic, not the Marvel monster-hero. Charlton’s version was an omniscient narrator, the type popular on early radio shows. Of course, it’s extremely unlikely that, in the mid-1960s, Archie Comics— formerly MLJ—would have published a comic featuring a character with the same name as the co-star of Marvel’s Fantastic Four. This letter also refers to Archie’s uninspired and short-lived 1965 super-hero revival of their old MLJ characters—including Steel Sterling (as drawn by Paul Reinman and written by Jerry Siegel). And now back to our regularly scheduled comments by PAM….

It Was A Barry Good Year! (Left:) A classic “Daredevil” splash page drawn by Dan Barry for Daredevil #42 (May 1947). Script officially by Charles Biro. [© the respective copyright holders; Daredevil is now TM Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The PAM Papers (Part 3)

Oh yeah, in a recent TCR issue [The Comic Reader] (#36?) there was an article on the “old” Daredevil (Lev Gleason) strip, and I have a complaint. The writers missed mentioning the fact that Jack Cole (old Plastic Man artist) also did the strip (for 2 issues that I know of) and did an excellent job. Better than any of the other artists (in my opinion) involved. Cole actually did four issues. Jack Binder is credited with the first “Daredevil” story, in Silver Streak Comics #6. Cole took over next issue, continuing until #10. Still, PAM was pretty close… especially for those arcane days before digital comic download sites and comprehensive Internet databases. The Biro-[Dan]Barry combination was a good thing (I have issue #42) but it couldn’t last. Both of them are “Take Charge” guys and couldn’t get along indefinitely. Too much friction. They’d argue over every panel. After Dan worked for Biro, he did a few crime stories for Hillman, then moved on to DC, where he did some beautiful crime stories, “The Vigilante” (Meskin’s old strip), and a couple of Big Town books, etc., etc., etc., and finally Flash [Gordon] for King features. He squeezed Tarzan somewhere between DC and King… but someone else penciled a lot of the strips. No, I didn’t quit Barry, and he didn’t quit me. We both had studios in the same building, and at one point he was looking for an inker to help him on some pressing deadlines—he saw some stuff I was doing—and asked me to give him a hand with backgrounds and inking. I said okay, and did his stuff (and mine) for a month or so. Then, as he got caught up, I did less and less, until finally he was able to handle it himself. He did offer me a steady job during that period, but he’s too hard a man (personality-wise) to work for.

Partners In Crime! Dan Barry drew this striking splash for Charles Biro’s Crime Does Not Pay #70 (Dec. 1948); scripter unknown. According to Pete, he and Biro got along like water and oil! [© the respective copyright holders.]

[5/5/1968] Barry did work for Biro (crime Daredevil, Boy, Tops, and a western title). Also some crime and westerns for Hillman, ditto for DC, where he set the “Barry look” style that every DC artist tried to imitate. He also ghosted some daily Tarzan strips for Hogarth before he made the scene with Flash Gordon. He did some beautiful work on the initial Flash strips, but little by little started to “farm” it out to other artists, as he became interested in painting—and that’s the way things stand now. [1/22/1991] In the past I tried to buy the rights to 3 characters that were no longer published:

The Other Man Of Steel! Charles Biro drew this cover to Zip Comics #1 (Feb 1940), featuring the first appearance of Steel Sterling. A quarter of a century later, Jerry Siegel and Golden Age MLJ cartoonist Paul Reinman revived him, with at best limited success. From Archie’s Mighty Comics #46 (May 1967). [Steel Sterling TM & © Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Daredevil (the original)—all of the people involved with that strip said that I could have it—free—except Charles Biro. I know he didn’t create Daredevil, but I was willing to make a one-time payment (to get him out of the picture). He refused, and

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

said that he wanted a piece of the action from every issue I published. I told him no—and that ended that. Capt. Marvel—was bound by the DC lawsuit and couldn’t be sold. Plastic Man—had been sold to DC, and DC wasn’t interested in selling it to me. I think I did check into a couple of other (no longer published) characters, with no results. Public domain is a tricky thing that I won’t mess with. Too many in’s and out’s and legal tie-ups. Not my cup of tea. [2/15/1991] Nope, I don’t agree with you about Charlie Biro. He didn’t create Daredevil—and I wasn’t about to pay him an ongoing percentage for doing nothing. A one-time payment—maybe—just to get him out of the picture, but a monthly payment—no way. Hey, you must know that my TBolt costume was based on Daredevil. I designed it that way only because Daredevil wasn’t being published anymore. [Sept. 1995] Charles Biro started out as a slapstick cartoonist and worked to change over to a straight style. He did the first Steel Sterling/Sgt. Boyle/Cpl. Collins/Crimebuster and took over Daredevil. He also did most of the Crime Does Not Pay covers, Boy covers, Daredevil covers, etc., and wrote a ton of stories. I doubt if Dan Barry ever ghosted Biro’s stuff—too much of an ego problem. Carl Hubbell, who had a Biro-like style, did some of his work. Yep, the Daredevil and Crimebuster “heads” were pasted on, from a master cut-out sheet, with different size heads drawn by Biro, to maintain the overall look. The above isn’t anything new. I remember seeing some originals of Ella Cinders, a newspaper strip, where all the “main-heads” were pasted on. [9/26/1995] Yeah, the Kubert Crimebuster “heads” (as I remember) were Kubert’s. Biro was losing interest in his books by that time…and was letting things slide. [MTG NOTE: Joe Kubert drew several “Crimebuster” stories in the final year of Boy Comics.]

A Hot Cover! An especially gruesome Charles Biro cover from Crime Does Not Pay #24 (Nov. 1942). Oddly, Pete Morisi gives the pronunciation of the editor/ artist’s last name as “BEER-o,” but everyone else A/E’s editor has ever encountered who’d met him, including rival editor Stan Lee, pronounced it “BUY-roh.” [© the respective copyright holders.]

[12/24/1996] Biro did some art (all Biro) early on. Steel Sterling, a few Daredevils, Sgt. Boyle, Corporal Collins, and then switched to writing and doing covers for all his books. Then, as the workload got too heavy, other artists did the pencils for some of his covers. Biro would change a couple of figures, ink the cover, and sign it with a big CHARLIE BIRO. [Jan. 1997] To clear up what I told you about Charlie Biro’s covers, let me say that most of them were all Biro. It was only during the end of his career (probably due to an increased workload) that he mixed and matched his covers with other artists.

The Final Problem PAM drew this Crimebuster (aka Chuck Chandler) pic for a puzzle page in Boy Comics #119 (March 1956), the title’s final issue. Scripter unknown. [© the respective copyright holders.]

I remember getting a script from Biro, with the last few pages missing. He told me to “bluff through the ending”—that he’d fix it when I returned it. Well, I wrote the last few pages of the script, and brought the criminal to justice and illustrated the story. Old Charlie didn’t change a word of the script, printed it as is, and didn’t pay me for the writing, to boot. Such is the comic book business!!! I guess I could have yelled and screamed over the above, but by the time I saw the published book, it was months later, at a time when Biro’s books were failing, and I didn’t want to add to his problems.

The PAM Papers (Part 3)

I’ve often considered Charles Biro to be something of an early version of Stan Lee, with all his virtues and flaws. PAM’s anecdote fits into that theory. And speaking of Stan, here’s PAM doing so…

On Stan Lee & Marvel Stan and I may get together again someday—but not in the near future. We argue a lot. Later, PAM followed up with: I didn’t mean to build up the “STAN-PAM” battle thing. It’s just that Stan has one way of doing comics, and I have another. For instance, if Stan had a scene in a story where the hero scratched his finger on a pin, he’d want the extreme expression of pain on the hero’s face and a “YEOOOWWW!” in balloon form. My version would lean toward an Eisner approach, where one lifted eyebrow took care of the expression, and a “umm, darn it” was in the balloon. We clashed constantly over things like the above example, and if I remember right, he fired me twice… and I quit twice. Now we’re friends, and I don’t want to go for the tie breaker… unless I have to. No, I ain’t Stan Lee either, and now that you mention it, neither is Stan Lee! (He changed his name, I think it was Stanley Lieberman)… or something similar.” [MTG: Close! Stanley Lieber, actually.] As a kid I did notice different artwork, and felt cheated when an artist I like didn’t do his regular strip. I can’t explain how Marvel does it (changing of artists) but I’ll bet money that a strip signed by Jack Kirby will outsell the same strip signed by Dick Ayers. (Look at the way they’re spreading the Kirby name all over the place—layouts etc.) Eventually, even the untrained reader will “feel” that there’s something different about a strip— and stop buying! And Glen, once you lose a reader that way, you just about lose him for good. [9/26/1995] Yeah, Biro vs. Lee—that would have been quite a personality clash, but it would have been fun. Both of them had a knack for writing a good story now and then, and although Biro wasn’t a good artist, he had a certain flair, or style, that let him get away with it. Still, both of these men, with all their faults, loved comics, and the industry owes them a lot. They could be corny, rude, abrupt, mean, and you name it, but in their own way, they were (are) giants. [5/9/2000] Stan Lee working for DC???????? Wow!!!!!!! [8/1/2001] Stan Lee re-writing the DC origins??? No way is that going to work. Maybe as a novelty feature for a few months, but after that, DC better go back to the simple origins that have made them a fortune.

On Joe Simon & Jack Kirby [1966] I spoke to Joe Simon the other day, and he offered me a big fat deal (money wise) if I would work for him, instead of Charlton. It may sound crazy, but I turned him down. I’m kind of happy, doing what I’m doing! Just picked up The Spirit and Fighting American. They’re mostly repeats… But they’re great!

The Marvel Method! Maybe Stan Lee and Pete didn’t always see eye to eye, but the results of their collaborations could be great fun—even if Stan was only the editor, not the writer (whose identity is uncertain)! Here’s a Morisi splash from Marvel Tales #153 (Dec. 1956). [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[4/29/1991] I’ve seen the Joe Simon book—at least I’ve thumbed through it. It looks interesting, and I thought about buying it—but—there are other books I’m interested in—and I can only stretch a buck so far. The Stuntman book by S&K is one of them. Gotta make up my mind. The whole industry owed S&K a heck of a lot for the things they did/created/ improved/etc., etc., and I’m not about to put them down. However, the truth does get bent a bit when the subject of Spider-Man/Captain Marvel/Captain America/Stan Lee/and Steve Ditko comics comes up. Each of those gentlemen claims to have been a major force in Spider-Man’s creation—and I don’t know who to believe. A Joe Simon book isn’t going to clear that up. In the previous post, PAM refers to Harvey Publications’ shortlived adventure line, which Joe Simon edited. And the book PAM mentions was The Comic Book Makers, written by Joe with his son Jim. It was published in 1990. [6/22/1991] I’m not sure what Joe Simon’s art looks like. I remember a crude Blue Bolt, a so-so love story years later, some drawing of Fighting American when he put out reprint books (and those “drawings” were swiped or touched-up Kirby art). So, I have to believe the Capt. Marvel book is Kirby, with

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

“possible” Simon inks. Still, both those guys deserve our thanks for being in the comics business. The Captain Marvel book referred to above was the first Fawcett comic with that actual name, published for March 1941. The Grand Comics Database credits the art therein to Jack Kirby and Dick Briefer, though Simon likely contributed, too. [Aug. 1991] I’m writing this to you before I get your next letter, so that I can comment on Joe Simon’s The Comic Book Makers while the thoughts are fresh in my mind. Yeah, I finally broke down and bought the thing. Joe’s book held my interest as long as he stuck to comics, but when he drifted into his Coast Guard days—he lost me. Ditto for stories of people (not comic-related) that he’s known. I don’t mind his story about Bob Wood (Biro’s partner), because his “drunken murder of his live-in girlfriend” was public knowledge. I do mind, however, when he wrote about a gentle soul like Mort Meskin, and made public the fact that Mort spent time in mental institutions. I don’t think it was Joe’s place to comment on that. Mort may have made light of that fact (according to the book) but it was still his business. Simon wrote that he alone created Captain America, the title, costume, character, Bucky, and logo. Later in the book he wrote that Kirby was the co-creator. Hell, if Simon did all of the above, what was left for Kirby to do?

they couldn’t make a good living in comics—then the rest of us ought to quit now. Simon shows several comic book art styles, that he claims are his—but they’re so different that there’s room for plenty of doubt. Some pieces of work show more “art-knowledge” than others. [8/30/1991] I always thought (the way you did) that Kirby did the art and Simon did the story and inking. I also thought that Simon inked the first few Capt. Americas—but the book says he didn’t. A puzzlement.

On Ed Cronin [2/15/1991] I do remember going up to Hillman and showing my stuff to an editor named Cronin (can’t recall his first name). He was a nice old guy, treated me well, but finally said, “No, I’m looking for realistic-type art. Your work is heavy on style.” So except for working on The Heap (some background art and inking)—I never worked directly for Hillman. [3/9/1991] Yep, “Ed” Cronin sounds right—but you asked a tough “heavy on style” question. Here’s an example. When Hogarth drew Tarzan, he wanted to get across a powerful figure of a man (to the public) so, he drew his with broad shoulders, small waist and (here’s the biggie)…tiny feet!!! Now, Hogarth is a master of anatomy, and can certainly draw average-sized feet, but in order to get the “look” he wanted, he stylized his art, to get the results. Now, I don’t know what Cronin saw in my stuff

Simon wrote that the double-page spreads (Stuntman) in his book were “previously unpublished.” Not true. I have two Stuntman books, and one of them has an “unpublished” double-page spread. At times Simon wrote about Kirby like he was a friend, other times like he was hired help. A strange relationship, indeed. At one point he wrote, “I hadn’t seen Kirby in three years.” S&K probably made more money than any team in comics—yet they always seemed to be broke. If

Alone & Together (Above left:) A solo Joe Simon page from Blue Bolt #1 (June 1940). (Above right:) Jack Kirby joins Joe in this page from Blue Bolt #6 (Nov. 1940). The precise scripters of both pages are unknown. [© the respective copyright holders.]

The PAM Papers (Part 3)

to cause him to make that statement, but (as I said before) he treated me like a gentleman, so I wasn’t about to question his opinion.

On Victor Fox [Aug. 1991] When Joe [Simon] wrote about the early days of comics, the sweat shops, all-night sessions, crooks, thieves, deal-makers, and parasites… he was pretty much on the money. I caught the tail end of that era (a struggling artist living from check to check). So when I got a check from Victor Fox that bounced, it made for some hard feelings on my part. I took that check to Manhattan, into the Fox Features offices, past the receptionist who shouted that Mr. Fox was in conference, kicked open the door, leaped over the conference table… and got my hands on Victor Fox. The other people in the room separated us, as Fox yelled for a cop. I said, “Go ahead and get a cop, so that I can show him this check.” Fox calmed downed swallowed hard, and said that the check was a bookkeeping mistake. He apologized all over the place and had a new check made out on the spot.

But, according to David Hajdu’s great book The Ten-Cent Plague, Fox had the last laugh. Hajdu writes: “Fox paid Morisi for the full sum due him—nearly a thousand dollars for pages billed at $20 apiece. Morisi decided to stop working for Fox when the check bounced.” [8/30/1991] Victor Fox always stole from Peter to pay Paul, and sooner or later that catches up to you. No, I don’t know what Simon Sez! happened to him… Joe and son Jim Simon wrote this fascinating he went bankrupt memoir about the early days of comics and and faded from the their creators. Highly recommended! scene. I’m sure that [© Jim Simon & Estate of Joe Simon.] he’s in a very warm place now… and I don’t mean Florida! Good riddance. And on that Hellish note, we bid adieu for now. Next issue we’ll bring you a special 20-page cover-featured edition of Comic Crypt, spotlighting Golden Age artist Frank Thomas. Not the Frank Thomas of Disney’s “Nine Old Men” fame, but the Frank Thomas who drew “The Eye” for Centaur and “The Owl” for Dell. This extra-length article will include rare photos and personal history, courtesy of his daughter Nancy Bardeen. Be there! Till next time…

Ahoy! Pete drew this “Skipper Hoy” filler story for Fox’s Feature Presentations #6 (June 1950). But, in typical Victor Fox fashion, the publisher stiffed him. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Always A Fan! 15-year-old Peter Morisi had a fan letter published in Novelty’s Target Comics, Vol. 4, #1, cover-dated March 1943. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Celebrate KIRBY’s 100th birthday with

KIRBY100

TWOMORROWS and the JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine celebrate JACK KIRBY’S 100th BIRTHDAY in style with the release of KIRBY100, a full-color visual holiday for the King of comics! It features an all-star line-up of 100 COMICS PROS who critique key images from Kirby’s 50-year career, admiring his page layouts, dramatics, and storytelling skills, and lovingly reminiscing about their favorite characters and stories. Featured are BRUCE TIMM, ALEX ROSS, WALTER SIMONSON, JOHN BYRNE, JOE SINNOTT, STEVE RUDE, ADAM HUGHES, WENDY PINI, JOHN ROMITA SR., DAVE GIBBONS, P. CRAIG RUSSELL, and dozens more of the top names in comics. Their essays serve to honor Jack’s place in comics history, and prove (as if there’s any doubt) that KIRBY IS KING! This double-length book is edited by JOHN MORROW and JON B. COOKE, with a Kirby cover inked by MIKE ROYER. (The Limited Hardcover includes 16 bonus color pages of Kirby’s 1960s Deities concept drawings)

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Welcome to the CAMP AGE, when spies liked their wars cold and their women warm, good guys beat bad guys with a pun and a punch, and Batman shook a mean cape. HERO-A-GO-GO celebrates the camp craze of the Swinging Sixties, when just about everyone—the teens of Riverdale, an ant and a squirrel, even the President of the United States—was a super-hero or a secret agent. BACK ISSUE magazine and former DC Comics editor MICHAEL EURY takes you through that coolest cultural phenomenon with this all-new collection of nostalgic essays, histories, and theme song lyrics of classic 1960s characters like CAPTAIN ACTION, HERBIE THE FAT FURY, CAPTAIN NICE, ATOM ANT, SCOOTER, ACG’s NEMESIS, DELL’S SUPER-FRANKENSTEIN and DRACULA, the “Split!” CAPTAIN MARVEL, and others! Featuring interviews with BILL MUMY (Lost in Space), BOB HOLIDAY (It’s a Bird … It’s a Plane … It’s Superman), RALPH BAKSHI (The Mighty Heroes, SpiderMan), DEAN TORRENCE (Jan and Dean Meet Batman), RAMONA FRADON (Metamorpho), DICK DeBARTOLO (Captain Klutz), TONY TALLARICO (The Great Society Comic Book), VINCE GARGIULO (Palisades Park historian), JOE SINNOTT (The Beatles comic book), JOSE DELBO (The Monkees comic book), and many more!

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It Crept From The Tomb Just when you thought it was safe to walk the streets again, FROM THE TOMB (the UK’s preeminent magazine on the history of horror comics) digs up more tomes of terror from the century past. IT CREPT FROM THE TOMB (the second “Best of” collection) uncovers atomic comics lost to the Cold War, rarely seen (and censored) British horror comics, the early art of RICHARD CORBEN, GOOD GIRLS of a bygone age, TOM SUTTON, DON HECK, LOU MORALES, AL EADEH, BRUCE JONES’ Alien Worlds, HP LOVECRAFT in HEAVY METAL, and a myriad of terrors from beyond the stars and the shadows of our own world! It features comics they tried to ban, from ATLAS, CHARLTON, COMIC MEDIA, DC, EC, HARVEY, HOUSE OF HAMMER, KITCHEN SINK, LAST GASP, PACIFIC, SKYWALD, WARREN, and more from the darkest of the horror genre’s finest creators!

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TED WHITE On Comics, Part 4 In Which He Talks About Interviewing Stan Lee, Writing A Captain America Novel, & More!

Interview Conducted by Bill Schelly

NTERVIEWER’S INTRO: In Part 1, prominent SF author, editor, and fan Ted White filled us in on his boyhood as a comic book fan and collector. In Part 2, he talked about meeting noted EC fans Fred von Bernewitz, Bhob Stewart, and Larry Stark. In Part 3, he discussed visiting the EC offices and writing his chapter for the “All in Color for a Dime” series in the fanzine Xero.

and pretty much become steamrollered into the DC blandness. He had elements of his own style, little trick things like he would do, but in general, I vastly preferred Lee Elias’ Flash.

In Part 4, Ted explains that he was a fan of the Marvel heroes, and talks about interviewing the co-creator of most of them, Stan Lee. He also recounts writing the ill-starred novel Captain America: The Great American Gold Steal and attending the monthly meetings of the Comic Art Group in Manhattan. The interview took place by telephone in November 2014. This portion was transcribed by Sean Dulaney and reviewed by Ted White. Special thanks to John Workman for providing the scans from Amazing and Fantastic. Let’s go…!

WHITE: I was on and off following Stan Lee’s pre-super-hero Marvel stuff. The Atlas stuff. I was mostly following it for the Kirby work. Although I never was that happy with Kirby inked by Dick Ayers. I thought Ayers was a fantastic artist when he was doing Ghost Rider around 1950. But by the time he was inking Kirby, it just seemed like he sloppied up Kirby.

BILL SCHELLY: Getting back to the comics, you were saying that you weren’t really that impressed with the quality of the DC hero revivals on the late 1950s and early 1960s? TED WHITE: They had a quality of blandness to them. Not only was the writing pretty bland, but the art was pretty bland. Okay, Gil Kane is doing Green Lantern, but he’s not getting to ink it, so it’s inked “DC bland.” BS: Well, I didn’t feel Joe Giella was the most exciting inker. WHITE: Then you had Carmine Infantino doing The Flash. There was a time when Infantino had some style, but he’d lost it by then

BS: What were your impressions of the comics from Stan Lee, like Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man?

BS: I liked Ayers’ inks on Kirby, but they did look kind of muddy. WHITE: Yes. That’s a good description. He kind of rounded off the sharp edges and loosened things up, and just generally—I mean, Kirby came through enough that I was still following it, but I wasn’t excited by it. And I had a sense that Kirby was grinding the stuff out, which I think he was. At any rate, I was following those comics. When Amazing Adult Fantasy started coming out, which was a sort of a pseudo-EC comic, I didn’t buy it, but I did look at it on the stand every issue. Just to see what was happening with it. Maybe I bought some for the Ditko art. I was fond of Ditko. BS: I think I read that somewhere that he was one of your favorites at Marvel.

Mushed By Marvel Ted White, seen a few years ago— flanked by the first two pages of his 1968-printed interview with Stan Lee, from Castle of Frankenstein #12. Photo courtesy of TW; art penciled by Jack Kirby. [Art TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Comic Fandom Archive

The Stan In The High Castle Ted White’s interview with Stan Lee in Castle of Frankenstein #12 was conducted in late 1965 or early ’66, but not published until 1968. It was perhaps the first substantive interview done with Smilin’ Stan. Stan’s name is so difficult to read on the CoF cover that it’s a good thing that an image of Spider-Man and the words “Marvel Comics” were prominently featured. (What was CoF publisher Calvin Beck thinking?) The photo of Lee is from the inside front cover of Fantasy Masterpieces #1 (Feb. 1966). [CoF cover © the respective copyright holders; Lee photo & Spider-Man image TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

afternoon in his office.

Stan and I were friends by then, so it was a very easy interview to do. BS: He was comfortable with you. It’s funny. He keeps getting interrupted by phone calls. WHITE: Well, you know, it was part of his working day. It was just done on an

BS: So, I guess it’s no surprise you got an opportunity to write that Captain America novel, The Great American Gold Steal? WHITE: Are you familiar with the story behind that? BS: I know that Otto Binder kind of fouled the water on that by writing a lousy Avengers novel called The Avengers Battle the Earth Wrecker.

WHITE: Oh, I first encountered Ditko when he was drawing for Charlton back in the middle ’50s. I liked his work there a lot. It stood out so much from everything else Charlton was publishing. At any rate, I was following the Marvel comics before they were Marvels, in kind of a desultory way. So when Fantastic Four appeared, and then Amazing Fantasy #15 appeared, I bought both of those. And I started buying Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man on a regular basis, and I thought they were exciting in comparison to the DC comics. BS: They were! WHITE: So I followed them a lot. And then—I can’t remember the year, but it was before Stan Lee got popular around the college circuit, so it would have been the middle ‘60s. He and I were both on a radio show—a midnight to 3:00 a.m. or something in the morning radio show on the Columbia University radio station where a guy named Jim something-or-other, who I kind of knew, was doing this show. It was a talk show. You could call in and stuff like that. And he had me and Stan on one evening… BS: Together? WHITE: Yeah. Well, he didn’t know the questions to ask and I did. BS: I see. WHITE: He had me on, and Stan and I hit it off. Stan and I got along very well together, and that was the beginning of my relationship with Stan. BS: I was going to ask you about that, because I know that you did that early interview—maybe the first substantive interview with Stan Lee. WHITE: Apparently. That was in Castle of Frankenstein. It’s been reprinted a lot. [NOTE: It appeared in Castle of Frankenstein #12 (1968), but was recorded circa 1965-66, per Ted. It was reprinted in Alter Ego #74. —Bill] BS: It’s a pretty good interview. WHITE: Yeah, I’m happy with it. Bhob Stewart asked me to do that and set it up with Stan. I went in there and did the interview.

WHITE: Oh, there’s more to it than that. You see, basically, Otto Binder wanted to write for Marvel Comics. Stan wanted me to write for Marvel, but I passed on it. But Stan did not want Otto Binder writing for Marvel. Otto’s approach was almost the direct opposite of the Marvel approach. I would say that, among other things, he was past his peak as a productive writer. His peak had been years earlier. In any event, because Stan wouldn’t hire him, Otto decided to make an end run around Stan Lee. He went to Martin Goodman and cut some kind of a deal with him about writing paperback books. Marvel paperback books for Bantam Books. At the same time this was going on, I was wanting to do a Batman novel. This is slightly before the Batman TV show, but I think we knew it was coming. My agent had been talking to Bantam Books about doing a Batman novel. Bantam was very interested in doing this and liked my proposal and wanted to do it, but they discovered that legally they couldn’t. That was because DC Comics and Independent News were all really one thing… Independent News was distributing Signet Books at that time, and contractually, Signet Books had first refusal on any book originating from a DC comic. So Bantam couldn’t do it. Therefore Bantam was, at that point, open to the idea of doing Marvel books instead. Binder found fertile territory when he went to Bantam and sold them on the idea of doing—I’m not sure what it was originally. It might have been six books, it might have been less than that. It wasn’t less than three or four, anyway. But only some Marvel properties were available. Neither Spider-Man or Fantastic Four was available. It had to be what were then considered the lesser titles and characters, of which The Avengers were one and Captain America another. Stan found out what was going on, and was really upset about it because he knew that Otto would not be true to the Marvel style in the book he was going to write. And there was nothing that Stan could do about it. BS: And most of these were his characters, or co-creations. WHITE: Right. So Stan said—to Bantam, I think he said—“If you’re going to be doing this, at least get someone better than Otto! Get Ted White.” And so, he recommended me and Bantam already knew about me from the Batman proposal. So I went into the Bantam offices and met one of their vice-presidents—a really nice

Ted White On Comics, Part 4

guy—and we had a half-hour conversation that was extremely pleasant and didn’t have much to do with comicbooks. As I recall, we talked about Ross McDonald, who was being published by Bantam. I left that office with a hardcover copy of the last Ross McDonald book. That and a handshake contract to do the Captain America book.

Togetherness—After A Fashion I went up to see Stan to talk about it. And I said, “Originally, Otto Binder and Ted White appeared together on a panel at John Benson’s 1966 what I was thinking of doing was taking this plot I had created New York Comicon. (Left to right:) Artist Klaus Nordling, Binder, fan-artist Larry for Batman and translate it to Captain America.” Which wouldn’t Ivie, and White. Photo courtesy of Maggie Thompson. According to White, Binder’s be that hard, because neither of them are really super heroes. substandard The Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker book “poisoned the well” I mean, they didn’t have powers. It would just be a translation for comic book-themed novels, hurting the sales of his subsequent Captain really. But Stan said, “No, no, no. Don’t do that. It’s got to be—” America: The Great Gold Steal. Artists still not 100% certain. [Covers TM & © Marvel He didn’t use these words, but what he was saying is it’s got to Characters, Inc.] be organic to Captain America. It’s got to come out of Captain America. And when I thought about it, I realized he was right. I captured Captain America, and one of them says, “We’ve got to just junked the whole Batman plot and started afresh with the book unmask him!” And they unmask him and they look at him and say, that I ended up writing. “I don’t know who he is. I’ve never seen him before.” BS: The Great American Gold Steal is a pretty good book. BS: [laughter] I remember that. WHITE: Thank you. I had an awful lot of fun writing it. That WHITE: He was nobody as Steve Rogers. Nobody knew who Steve book was written in less than two weeks. It wrote itself. I didn’t Rogers was. Pass him in the street, you wouldn’t know who he was. even have a plot outline. What I did was, I had the basic concept, So that was a fun scene to write. which was somebody trying to steal gold from the Federal Reserve Bank in lower Manhattan, which at that time had and probably BS: How did the book sell? still has more gold in it than Fort Knox. It’s where all of the foreign WHITE: That’s the thing. The books were supposed to come out countries that have gold on deposit in the U.S. kept their gold. in January and February, as I recall, of ’67. I think that’s how it was France had a tremendous amount of gold there. supposed to work. I had a very short deadline. I mean, I wrote the At any rate, knowing that, on a Sunday afternoon in the fall book in the fall of ‘66, turned it in, and then it was supposed to of 1966, my second wife Robin and I got in our car and we drove come out within less than six months. It was very fast production. to lower Manhattan. Which then was, and probably still is, almost But the first book they did was Binder’s Avengers book. And completely deserted on a Sunday afternoon. It’s the Wall Street that—I don’t know whether you ever looked at it… area. At that time, there were no other businesses worth talking BS: I did look at it, in the course of writing my biography of Otto Binder. about. Nothing that stayed open. So we parked on the block next to the Federal Reserve Bank and we walked around it. It occupied WHITE: I picked that book up—I actually own a copy of it— most of a block, as I recall. Anyway, we just walked around it and and I tried to read it. My God, it was just about unreadable. The looked at the neighborhood and saw how everything looked, and first chapter is about nothing but the costumes of the different then we got back in my car and we drove back to Brooklyn and I Avengers. Page after page of descriptions of what each person’s went to my typewriter, sat down, and wrote the first two chapters costume looks like. There is no narrative hook. There is no of the book on that Sunday evening. Just like that. suspense. There’s no reason to keep reading except curiosity about what the Avengers costumes are like. And that book tanked. BS: Just out of your head? It bombed. It did terribly. I would assume the average potential WHITE: Yeah. It just flowed. And from there on, it just kept reader picked it up, read the first few paragraphs or maybe the first coming. I had so much fun with that book. My favorite scene few pages, and then just put it back on the rack. in it is a scene where they unmask Captain America. I mean, BS: Right. Any fan of Marvel Comics would just read a page or two and the unmasking of a super-hero is always supposed to be one of go “Eww.” those dreaded climactic moments that ends a super-hero’s career. I wanted to play with that. So I have the bad guys who have WHITE: Exactly. It didn’t sell. So Bantam took a step back from the

Comic Fandom Archive

whole project. My Captain America book wasn’t published for another year and a half. By then, the bloom was off the rose. The whole “pop comicbook culture” thing that had been springing up because of the Batman TV show had run its course. Everything had peaked and passed by the time my book came out. All of the other books associated with comicbooks—you know, the ones that reprinted actual comics in paperback form—all of that had come and gone before my Captain America book came out. I had a unique contract with Bantam. I did not own the property. Marvel owns the property, so it was work for hire, but I had a royalty arrangement. And my royalty arrangement was such that if the book went into additional printings, I would get additional payments. I had every reason to think it would go into additional printings, but of course it didn’t. It did sell reasonably well. I believe it virtually sold out. No book really sells out. There’s always slippage. BS: But they set the print run by what they think they can sell.

that every other week wasn’t frequent enough, and they started a group called FIStFA. FIStFA is the acronymic shorthand for the Fannish and Insurgent Scientifictional Association. They met on alternate Fridays so there were meetings every Friday night in New York City. BS: But these are science-fiction fans. WHITE: Right. So, somewhere in the middle ’60s—’64 or ’65—Mike McInerney got involved with John Benson. BS: I know he helped or was going to help John Benson put on that 1966 comic book convention that Benson did, but I think McInerney kind of backed away and left Benson to handle it.

WHITE: That could be. I don’t know. But in any event, they started up this monthly comic group that met on Tuesday nights. And it was based on the Fanoclast meetings, but it was comics pros and fans, but not “fanboy” fans. This was an informal gathering—no business meeting, no officers, anything like that. People like Roy Thomas, Larry

WHITE: They printed between 95,000 and 100,000 copies for the first printing and they sold 80 or 90%.

Ivie, and Phil Seuling.

BS: That’s a high sales percentage.

BS: John Benson tells me that the meetings started right after the 1966 con, in Roy’s apartment.

WHITE: Yes, but it wasn’t enough to make them do another printing. I blame Otto Binder for the poor sales of both our books, but particularly his. BS: At least you got that one done, which is sort of a classic in its way. WHITE: I had fun doing it and I’m not sorry I did it. It was sort of weird, though, Stan’s reaction to it. BS: Which was? WHITE: He wouldn’t read it. When I turned in the manuscript, I gave a carbon of the manuscript to Marvel. This was by contract, and Marvel was supposed to vet it. Make sure that it was in tune with what Marvel was doing. It landed on Stan’s desk, and Stan couldn’t read it. Stan wouldn’t read it. He gave it to Roy to read. I mean, Roy told me about this. Roy read it and liked it. I don’t think any changes were suggested. I do know that, in the next Avengers Annual, there was a double-page spread on the Avengers headquarters that was credited to me and the Captain America book. BS: At the time when you were doing this, wasn’t this when the monthly “comic art group” in Manhattan started up? WHITE: To give you some background to the comic art group… There was a science-fiction fan group called the Fanoclasts, which was formed at the end of 1960 by Dick and Pat Lupoff, Larry and Noreen Shaw, and Sylvia [my first wife] and myself. We six were the founders. The Fanoclasts was created as an invitational group, specifically so the Lupoffs could keep Peter Stampfel and Tom Condit out. [laughter] I mean, that was their reason. It wasn’t the reason why the Shaws and I joined them, but that was it. And the Fanoclasts met every other week on a Friday night. Around ’64 or ’65, two members—Rich Brown and Mike McInerney—decided

WHITE: I don’t believe I was at the first meeting, but I think I was at all of the subsequent meetings. They were held in a variety of different places. Roy hosted when he was living in Manhattan, but then he got an apartment in Brooklyn. When he moved out to Brooklyn, it was not as easy to get to where he was living. I believe someone else started hosting then. That might have been when Bill Pearson was hosting. But it was a really good group. It never had an official name. I always called it the New York Comic Arts Group, but I don’t think anyone else called it that. It was just me that called it that. BS: Sort of the cognoscenti of comics? WHITE: People like Wally Wood and Steve Ditko came to meetings. Roger Brand was a regular. BS: Kind of a witzend connection there. WHITE: Oh, there were all kinds of different cross-connections like that. I’m sure witzend came out of Mike and Wood getting together at some point. It was a really good group. Sometimes there were no more than a half-dozen people at a meeting, other times there were more. Near the end in 1969 and 1970 when Jeff was hosting them, a new generation of comics guys started showing up. I don’t even know who they all were. BS: A lot of them were just breaking into comics at the time. WHITE: Right. They were the new, younger guys. These were guys—I mean, the people I hung out with at that point were people like Mike Kaluta and Bernie Wrightson. Well, Mike and Bernie and somebody else had an apartment in the same building Jeff Jones did, only their apartment was near the top of the building and Jeff’s was on, like, the second or third floor.

Ted White On Comics, Part 4

BS: Was that Alan Weiss? WHITE: I think he was one of the people who showed up, but I don’t think he was in that apartment. But sometimes after the regular meeting, Mike and Bernie and I would go up to their apartment and hang out for a while longer. That’s how Mike Kaluta got into my magazines as an artist. Just because we were friends and I got to know him and got to see his art, and I said, “Hey, would you like to do some art for me?” And he said, “Yeah, I would.” BS: That’s what I was going to ask you next: how these comics artists got into your science-fiction magazines.

Amazing, Fantastic Science-Fiction Art When Ted White became editor of Amazing and Fantastic, he used work by numerous artists familiar (or becoming familiar) to comics fans. (Clockwise from above left:) Dan Adkins contributed an illustration to the Sept. 1969 issue of Amazing. The April 1971 edition of Fantastic sported a Gray Morrow cover, and interior illustrations by Jeffrey Jones, Steve Harper, and Michael Wm. Kaluta. Art examples courtesy of John Workman. [Art © the individual artists or their successors in interest.]

WHITE: Largely, but not entirely, through my comics connections. Wayne Howard, who was one of Wally Wood’s assistants, was doing art for us for a while on Amazing and Fantastic. The weird thing was that I had nothing to do with that. He went straight to my publisher, Sol Cohen, for work, and Sol gave it to him. I was fine with it. Once he was working for us, I picked him for future stories. I don’t believe I ever met Wayne face to face. BS: Did having Howard, a comics artist, inspire you to get more comics artists to work in the SF mags? WHITE: I didn’t think in those terms. I just thought in terms of people who could do the work I wanted. We had Joe Staton. Joe was developing a career at Charlton, but I knew Joe as a science-fiction fan. We hung out together. We were friends. Almost all of this is personal connections except for Wayne Howard. BS: Who were some of the other artists you got into Fantastic and Amazing Stories? WHITE: People like Mike Hinge. I was proud to get Mike into those magazines, because I felt Mike was one of the most original and exciting artists around BS: Other artists in your magazines….? WHITE: Well, Dan Adkins. I’d known Adkins since the ’50s. BS: What about Jeff Jones? WHITE: Yeah. I met Jeff in 1966 at the World Science Fiction Convention in Cleveland. That was before he moved to New York City, before he started his professional career. I liked his work and talked to him about it. I was just a fan then, I wasn’t an editor. I’m not sure, but I may have been the one who told him that, if he moved to New York, he should get in touch with Larry Ivie, which, of course, is what he did. Larry was the person everybody in comics who moved to New York got in touch with, and often stayed with, until they got their own place. So, Jeff did. Jeff and I became friends pretty quickly after he moved to New York. Just… hanging out. He did the cover for one of my books, which was unfortunately butchered by the art director. BS: Which book?

WHITE: It was called Spawn of the Death Machine and was published by Paperback Library in 1968. Jeff showed me the painting before I finished the book, and I was able to incorporate all of the elements in the painting into a scene in the book. Then the art director changed the painting. In the original painting, there’s a guy with a girl kind of behind him, and he’s standing there with a knife in his hand. They’re both kind of dressed as barbarians. In the published cover, the knife has morphed into a sword. There are no swords in the book at all. Also, they put chains on the girl and changed her anatomy somewhat. They moved her legs, and it looks awkward and it doesn’t look like a good Jeff Jones painting anymore. BS: That’s too bad. WHITE: Jeff was pretty upset about that. Jeff and Mike Hinge, between them, totally revolutionized the way in which publishers dealt with artists. They brought artists’ rights into the picture for the first time ever in publishing.

Comic Fandom Archive

If You Liked That Last Art Spot—And You Probably Did —Here’s Some More! Later in the 1970s, Amazing featured the cover at left by Steve Fabian (10-77), and Fantastic offered interior art by Fabian (9-77) and future comic book/Dick Tracy artist Joe Staton (9-77) [latter seen at right]. Art examples courtesy of John Workman. [Art © the individual artists or their successors in interest.]

BS: Didn’t Frazetta sort of have his own clout, too, when he was doing those covers? WHITE: Frazetta was Frazetta. Frazetta carved out contracts for Frazetta. They didn’t apply to anyone else. But what Jeff and Mike did changed the industry for everybody. Jeff was getting $2,000 or more for his paperback book covers in those days. I mean, that was considered really good. At that time, some artists were getting $500 for a cover. BS: What changes did they get made? WHITE: Rights! The major change was the artist kept ownership of the original painting. Before then, publishers bought cover paintings and just stored them in warehouses and occasionally they were destroyed in fires or floods, or they were given away or reused, but the artist had no control. After that, the artists kept the rights to the original. The publishers bought only first publication rights. This meant the artist could turn around and sell the original painting to somebody later if they wanted—for significantly more money.

BS: Of course, some of that was starting to come up in the comics industry then, too. There was the DC “rebellion” of 1968. In the early 1970s, there was the idea of forming a union. It never happened, but there was talk about that. WHITE: That was Neal Adams, mostly. BS: Yeah, Neal was definitely was the leader of that effort. WHITE: Neal had come into the Comics Art Group sometime in 1970. I believe he more or less took over the group, but by then I had left New York City. About a half a year before that, I left New York City. I was back in Falls Church. Next: Ted discusses his stint as editor of Heavy Metal, and more. Stay tuned! Bill Schelly’s latest book is John Stanley: Giving Life to Little Lulu (Fantagraphics Books). It includes both Bill’s full biography of the talented Mr. Stanley, and a cornucopia of over 300 illustrations, nearly all in color. Also, his biographies of Otto Binder, Joe Kubert and Harvey Kurtzman are still in print. Own them all! (You can contact Bill at: hamstrpres@aol.com.)

Celebrate the life of John Stanley, one of America’s greatest storytellers! “I would pile up all our blankets and stay awake till quite late reading Little Lulu comics and listening to Bob Dylan.” — Patti Smith “Little Lulu had incredible stories. I still read those Little Lulu comics from the late ‘40s, early ‘50s and they’re great.” — R. Crumb “[Stanley was] the most consistently funny cartoonist to work in the comic book medium.” – Fred Hembeck

John Stanley: Giving Life to Little Lulu by Bill Schelly

AVAILABLE WHEREVER BOOKS ARE SOLD MARCH 2017 350 ILLUSTRATIONS AND A 60,000 WORD BIOGRAPHY 180 PAGES - $39.99 US — HARDCOVER – 10" X 13" — FULL COLOR

re:

Because of the mountain of content we have to squeeze into the usual toothpaste-tube-sized issue of Alter Ego, we’d best get right to our missives re A/E #139 and the second part of Jim Amash’s interview with me on my work in the ’90s—this time on Marvel’s “Conan” titles and aborted Stan Lee “Excelsior” line, as well as my writing for Topps, Cross Plains, DC, and Millennium during that final decade of the 20th century. Onward, starting with a note from one of the first and best friends (and one-year apartment-mate) I made after moving to New York City in summer of ’65: Len Brown, then a young executive at Topps, the bubble-gum company that he was already trying to steer toward launching a comic book line, while dipping his own toe into the waters by writing the first “Dynamo” stories of Tower’s T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents title: Hi Roy, I enjoyed your article about Topps Comics in the latest issue of Alter Ego. Thanks for the nice way you described the various projects we had the opportunity to work on during those years. I feel Topps produced some successful books. One of my regrets was that we weren’t given the go-ahead to try more new titles that our editors could nurture. I always hoped to try a female super-group, but the feeling was that comics were in a slump in general, and the businessmen there felt we shouldn’t be looking at untried properties—just bet on titles that had a proven track record.

HAPPY 95 th, STAN!

Another regret is that we never tried to launch a series similar to Whitman’s Big Little Books. [Topps executive] Arthur Shorin remembered them from his youth, and he was briefly enthusiastic about the concept. We had a special meeting on such a project, but it got bogged down with accountants and others who didn’t quite understand the idea, and ultimately we couldn’t get the okay to give it a shot. That would have been a dream come true… reviving the Big Little Books concept in the 1990s. Oh, well.

his is a very special issue to me, since it honors my mentor Stan Lee, on the occasion of his 95th birthday. So it’s only fitting that this “re” section begin with Shane Foley’s great color illo of Captain Ego hauling around Stan and Your Humble Editor (Roy). Thanks for your usual fine work, Shane! (Captain Ego TM & © Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly; created by Biljo White; other art © Shane Foley.) Before we get to the letters section proper, I need to explain my cryptic little notes in this issue’s editorial on p. 2. I was pondering: what 95th birthday present could I give the man who’s been my mentor, boss, and friend for the past half-century plus? Then I hit on it. I recently finished writing a forthcoming (and still untitled) book on Stan Lee’s career for Taschen Books—and I was gratified that, when the galleys of the first third or so of the book came back, he had asked for only one change: that the usual spelling “comic book” be changed throughout to his own preference: comicbook. Since I’ve always felt the same way (and there’s a pre-pro article on me in a 1965 edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper to prove it—except that I’ve long preferred the hyphenated spelling “comic-book”), I decided that in Alter Ego, henceforth, in any interview or article that hasn’t been previously published (or just anywhere I think I can get away with it), we will use the one-word spelling “comicbook” in honor of Stan. The way I figure it, at this stage of the industry’s history, if he doesn’t have the right to decide how the name of those four-color magazines is spelled—who does?? So—HAPPY 95th STAN! And don’t say I never gave you nuthin’! P.S.: Oh, and I’ll print our 21st century e-mail exchanges (promised for this issue) the first chance I get, too!

Your memory is amazing about the Topps Comics days. I wish I had the recall you have when it comes to that brief period when Topps had the commitment to publish comic books. Len Brown Topps played a big part in A/E #139, Len, because, thanks in large part to you, I was privileged to write so many series for the fledgling company: Bram Stoker’s Dracula (and its sequels), Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein (and ditto), The X-Files: Season One, Xena: Warrior Princess, Jack Kirby’s Secret City Saga, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, etc. It was an enjoyable time for me, too, and I wish it had gone on forever! In reprinting Jerry Bails’ original 1965 celebration/outing of Bill Finger as the co-creator of Batman, I noted that someone had congratulated me on somehow being allowed to mention that fact in a Robin Archives edition, as if it were the first such admission in a DC publication. My old colleague Paul Levitz, who was for years a DC editor and even the company’s publisher, corrected that tidbit of what I was happy to learn was actually misinformation: Hi Roy, If you go back to Detective #500, long before we began any Archives series, you’ll find my signed text page celebrating the event, and leading off describing Batman as “the creation of Bob Kane and Bill Finger.” You don’t need to note this, much less run this as a letter, but since you’ve said such kind words about me as a “conscience” for DC and the field, I wanted to point it out to you. Both of us have worked hard to get people recognition (and payment) for their work, and it’s never a race. Paul Levitz

Thanks for filling me in, Paul. In addition, Marc Tyler Nobleman, whose recent work and book re Bill Finger helped set in motion the train of events that finally gained the writer a slightly watered-down co-creator credit in comics and on film, sent me a link to an online list he’d made of a whole mess of “DC-sanctioned publications” from 1969 onward in which Bill Finger was acknowledged as co-creator of Batman… although he apologized for missing my Robin Archives mention. Readers can look up Marc’s listing, probably by Googling “Bill Finger named co-creator of Batman” or some such phrase. The main thing is—it finally happened! Now will someone please explain to me why, in the credits for the otherwise excellent 2017 Wonder Woman movie, only Charles Moulton Marston is counted as “creator” of the Amazon, and not the original artist (and at least visual co-designer) Harry G. Peter? Even at the end of the film, everybody from recent artist George Pérez to post-Marston-&-Peter “WW” talents Robert Kanigher and Ross Andru gets listed—but not H.G. Peter! The more things change, it seems…. Marvel, for its part, doesn’t like to use the term “created,” but a credit such as the one at the start of the current Marvel/Netflix Iron Fist series at least states that it’s “based on the Marvel comics by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane,” which is tantamount to the same thing… with other contributing writers and artists listed at the tail-end of the episode. There’ve been a few inadvertent omissions along the way—no credit in the movie Logan for Herb Trimpe re Wolverine (presumably because John Romita designed the costume), and Stan Lee got left off the list of creators of Luke Cage (he belongs up there ahead of Archie Goodwin, John Romita, George Tuska, and myself)… but Herb always downplayed his own role on Wolverine, and Stan’s role re Cage, like my own on both concepts, was done in an editorial capacity. Still, even with minor omissions and the audacious excision of H.G. Peter from his due Wonder Woman credit, these are far better times for those of us who labored in the DC and Marvel vineyards back in the day. There’s still work to be done…. but these folks are eager to do it!

re:

beautiful young fiancée… While still in print, the book is largely forgotten today, and I suppose the insectoid title character is not as frightening as she used to be, which I guess can be blamed largely on Volkswagen and a certain rock ‘n’ roll quartet from Liverpool. Jeff Taylor Thanks, Jeff. I’ll admit to not being familiar with The Beetle: A Mystery, but I’ll have to pick up a copy. And maybe I can talk Pete Crowther and the guys at PS Artbooks in England (for whom I’ve helped put together some three dozen “Roy Thomas Presents” volumes reprinting vintage 1940s/50s material) into, one of these days, including the “Black Tarantula” issue in one of the Pre-Code Classics volumes they’re still churning out—just so I can read it again in hardcover. Meanwhile, that 1950 Fox classic is available for viewing at the Comic Book Plus website, and probably others as well. Finally, a few bittersweet sentiments from David Burd: Dear Roy: Just a quick note to say how much I enjoyed your editorial in issue #139. I liked it mainly because it reminded me of myself. (It’s all about me.) I’ve been talking about this for a while, but hadn’t quite found a way to put it in words so eloquently. You talk about how you didn’t so much leave comics and comics left you. That’s my current situation as well. Although I’m younger (60), I’m experiencing the same thing you did when the comics world changed into a place where you no longer fit, or even wanted to. I keep telling friends that it’s not that I feel old that’s disturbing—it’s that I don’t! I still feel young and think the same way I did in my youth. I have the same skills and talents I did then.

One of the last Conan projects on which I labored at Marvel (the mini-series Conan: Lord of the Spiders)—or at least the 1950 horror-comics images that had inspired that storyline—bestirred regular correspondent Jeff Taylor to pen (or whatever) this informative communiqué: Hi Roy, Was interested to see on p. 26 of A/E #139 the art from 1950s A Feature Presentation #5 starring “Black Tarantula.” While obviously inspired by Count Dracula (although actually he more resembles an even older penny-dreadful character called Varney the Vampire), the page where he turns into a large spider to attack his victim may have actually been inspired by something else. You see, when Bram Stoker’s Dracula first came out, it was in competition with another British horror novel, which actually outsold it at the time. Called The Beetle: A Mystery and written by Richard Marsh, it dealt with a handsome young Member of Parliament who had a secret darker than even most politicians: in his younger days, he had been kidnapped by an evil Egyptian cult and forced to become the love slave of their high priestess, and the only way to escape their secret temple was to murder her. What he did not know, however, was that she had been resurrected as “a creature born of neither God nor man” (hmm, I wonder if the writers of The Heap ever read this book) with the power to hypnotically control the minds of others and the power to change her form, shape-shifting between female and male as easily as changing his/her clothes and between exotically beautiful youth and a hideous gaunt and wrinkled ancientness. But her most terrifying form was that of a great dog-sized beetle, in which she loved to crawl up the bodies of her fear-paralyzed victims, especially the frozen form of the MP’s

Bugged! (Left:) Stefano Raffaele’s dramatically horrific cover for Conan: Lord of the Spiders #3 (May 1998), one of the four REH-related mini-series Roy Thomas scripted at the tail end of Marvel’s licensing of the Cimmerian. [TM & © Conan Properties International, LLC.] (Right:) Cover of an original 1895 edition of Richard Marsh’s horror novel The Beetle: A Mystery. See Jeff Taylor’s informative letter for more about this forgotten classic.

[correspondence & corrections]

Gollum’s Precious Ross Sprout of Arden, NC, writes: “I was thinking of a fun coda to your brilliant ‘Roy Remembers’ interviews with Jim Amash that ended in A/E #139. It would be fun to hear your take on your life-long love of animals: Gollum the Ocelot from spring 1967, maybe a photo of you playing with your dog in 1951 with a rolled-up All Star Western #58, and of course your beautiful life on the farm now with Dann. I guess we will have to wait for your autobiography to get the riveting details of your return to academics in 1999. Thanks for listening, Roy, and for being the true giant of the 1965-1990 era you are!” Roy’s response: “Afraid I didn’t have a dog in 1951, only a cat, which showed a singular disinterest in The Trigger Twins, and A/E features pics from our South Carolina spread from time to time… but meanwhile, here’s the one photo I ever took of Gollum, the young ocelot I owned for roughly a month, in Len Brown’s and my Brooklyn apartment. The art seen there consists of black-&-white Photostats of the finished ‘Sub-Mariner’ story for Tales to Astonish #92 (Dec. 1967), probably being used as reference while I wrote #93. The date on the photo is ‘July 67.’ Gollum liked to nap on my desk, his head leaning against the phone… but when it would ring, he’d begin to softly growl, without moving his head—so the only way I could answer the phone without risking getting my hand badly clawed was to pull the receiver gently off by the cord from the left, while he eyed me suspiciously. See why I sold him to that nice hippie couple from Westchester County—and even told roomie Len to accept their check?”

I don’t feel diminished at all. Yet what I have to offer is no longer needed.

In closing: You now have two different ways of keeping up with Alter Ego and its editor’s dynamic doings.

I guess what I’m saying is, it’s nice to know it’s not my fault.

The Alter-Ego-Fans e-mail list is still going strong. Subscribers to the list will learn past, current, and future topics of A/E articles and have the chance (lucky you!) to occasionally scan a page or two from their comics collections to help RT illustrate upcoming articles—in exchange for a comp copy, of course. Just visit http:/groups.yahoo.com/group/alterego-fans. Yahoo Groups has, however, eradicated its “Add Member” tool, so if you find it won’t let you in, please contact moderator Chet Cox at mormonyoyoman@gmail.com and he’ll walk you through it!

David Burd info:

Well, actually, not quite “finally.” These few additional tidbits of

Bob Rozakis was the first of several people to point out that the photo on page 81 of #139 labeled “Bill Finger” was actually a picture of DC editor and writer Robert Kanigher. It’s still mis-identified, alas, on some Internet websites…which is where I picked it up. Sorry about that. John Benson, re Carol Tilley’s letter on Doc Wertham’s associate Gershon Legman in #139, says that back in the 1960s the late great writer/ editor Archie Goodwin told him that, during the ’50s, he had wondered if the name “Legman” wasn’t a pseudonym, since the guy had been such a “leg man” for Wertham. But it was apparently the gent’s real name!

Also, over on the omnipotent Facebook, collector and con-expediter John Cimino currently handles what he (not RT) has christened “The Roy Thomas Appreciation Boards” to discuss RT’s current, past, and upcoming work (including Alter Ego), convention appearances, personal thoughts about this or that, etc. It’s fully interactive, with the occasional visually recorded chat between Roy and John. The risk is yours!

Send all comments and corrections to: Roy Thomas 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135

e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com

Black Circle In Cross Plains (Right:) Here’s an e-mail that, by coincidence, deals with an event that occurred soon after Alter Ego #139 went on sale; it was sent by Robert E. Howard historian and enthusiast “Indy” Bill Cavalier, and refers to the “Howard Days” celebration held each June in Cross Plains, Texas, hometown of REH, the creator of Conan, King Kull, Solomon Kane, Red Sonja, et al.: “At Howard Days 2016, you were awarded the Robert E. Howard Foundation’s 2015 BLACK CIRCLE Award for Lifetime Achievement, for your dedication and service to Robert E. Howard. Congrats! In the annals of REH Fandom, this is the big one! You’re joining the ranks of Glenn Lord, Karl Edward Wagner, Novalyne Price Ellis, Rusty Burke, and several others (including me!) for all that you’ve done to promote and champion the works of Ol’ Two-Gun Bob Howard. The Award comes as a nice little laser-engraved wooden plaque.” Thanks, Bill. The award (seen at right, held by Yours Truly) means every bit as much to me as it did to be the major guest at the 2006 Howard Days, which celebrated the centenary of REH’s birth and, alas, the 70th anniversary of his untimely death. Few things have been more satisfying to me in my 50-years-and-counting career in comics than writing, editing, and hopefully enhancing, just a little bit, the legacy of Robert E. Howard. Photo by Dann Thomas.

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Paragon’s

1969 Captain Marvel “Revival” by Bill Black

Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck / J.T. Go

“Strange Luck”

fter graduating from Florida State University in December of 1966, with a BA degree in art, I was promptly drafted into the U.S. Army. This was unfortunate for many reasons, not the least of which was that 1967 was the peak of the Vietnam War. I was faced with the prospect of possibly being put in the position of killing another human being or being killed myself. And now, following a career in art would be put on hold for 24 months in any case. In the late 1960s the world of pop art was exploding. It was an exciting time to be an artist and I would miss participating in this movement, or so I believed. It must be mentioned that, during my military career, I first became aware that I was blessed with a phenomenon that I have come to call “strange luck.” Relating all the incidents of strange luck would fill volumes, so only those directly connected to the creation of my first fanzine, Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, No. 2, are noted here. After basic training, I was stationed at Ft. Stewart, Georgia, the closest Army base to my home state, Florida. By miraculous manipulations, I had been assigned to work as an artist at Training Aids, where I would be the only GI amongst civilian artists. My boss, Mr. King, also a civilian, was a very nice man who gave me a key to the facility so that I might have use of a drawing table during my off-duty hours. Taking full advantage of this benefit, I continued drawing comic strips just as I had done in civilian life. Here, I drew a seven-page horror story executed in ink wash that I submitted to Warren Publications in hopes of having it printed in Creepy or Eerie. Although Warren did not use the story, the effort put me in solid with then-editor Bill Parente, who promised me work after my military service. During the course of Training Aids duties, I discovered a copy machine that made large transparencies for overhead projectors. A document, when placed upon a special sheet of plastic, then run through this machine, would transfer the black image to the plastic sheet. I experimented with a comicbook page and it worked. Only the black line art,

A Paragon Of Virtue (Top:) Bill Black in 1970, a year after he published Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, #2. “Free of the military, I grew out my hair,” Black says. “Wish I still had it!” (Right:) Black’s cover for Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, #2 (1969), which featured his 17-page revival of Fawcett’s Captain Marvel, several years before the authorized resurrection of the hero occurred via license at DC Comics. Bill’s artwork was later re-used for the cover of G.B. Love’s RBCC (Rocket’s Blast Comic Collector) #101 (Spring 1973). The images from the original edition of PGAG V1#2 are reproduced from Roy Thomas’ personal copy. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; other art © Bill Black.]

Paragon‘s 1969 Captain Marvel “Revival”

and not the colors, would transfer to the clear plastic. Taking this transparency and coupling it with a sheet of paper and then passing it through a different machine would print this black&-white image on paper. Inspired, I decided to make a big book of comicbook stories from various publishers all together in one volume. Thus was born Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, No. 1. Only two copies were printed, as this was very labor-intensive. The comic page was not harmed in this process, but it was necessary to cut the stories out of their respective books. In 1967-1968 I had discovered comicbook fandom after having ordered a copy of the RBCC (Rocket’s Blast Comic Collector) from a classified ad in Marvel Comics. Here I learned of mail-order dealers who sold old comicbooks. The first Golden Age comics I ordered were copies of Captain Marvel Adventures and All-American Comics (as I had learned this title starred Green Lantern). I also noted that many fans were publishing their own amateur publications, and that interested me very much. Here, then, was an outlet for publishing comics outside of the “pros.” During my last months at FSU, I met a pretty co-ed named Rebekah and we started dating. Her home was in Jacksonville and FSU was in Tallahassee. Both cities were within weekend driving distance from Ft. Stewart, which was south of Savannah, GA. The relationship blossomed and we planned to get married in June

of 1968. Then I received orders from Uncle Sam. I was going to Germany. This was good as it meant I would not be going to Viet Nam. It was bad, as I was scheduled to leave a week before my wedding. At this time I lived in a barracks room with seven other GIs. One of my roomies worked in POR and Levy as a clerk. He learned of my plight and took pity. He had access to my orders, pulled them, and dropped them down behind the filing cabinet where, for all I know, they are to this day. Concurrently, a fellow GI who worked at the post Special Services was always after me to transfer to his section, as he badly needed an imaginative artist to create posters and the like for Ft. Stewart events. We’ll call him “Sarge.” Learning of my misplaced orders, he promptly drew up transfer papers. When time came for me to leave for “Germany,” I signed out of Training Aids and bid Mr. King adieu. I hated to deceive a man who had been so good to me, but my desire to wed Rebekah superseded all else. I then walked across post to Special Services, where Sarge greeted me with open arms. I also met the GI whose position I would fill, as he was getting out of the Army. We hit it off right away. He was dark and handsome, though not so tall, and had a beautiful wife. I had not a clue as to where I would live upon bringing my future bride to Ft. Stewart, so he offered me access to his apartment. I ended up with his job and his off-post pad. The Army owed me leave time, which I spent on getting married and going on a honeymoon. While I was gone and completely unknown to me, my new buddy had gathered up my various paintings (created at Training Aids and had stashed at the Special Services craft shop) and entered several fine art pieces in the Savannah Side Walk Art Festival. When I returned to base, he presented me with “Best in Show” and “Best in Mixed Media” ribbons, then drove off into the sunset. This is what I mean by “strange luck!” But wait, there’s more. Whereas the old craft shop where I was to work were old barracks, a brand new building was under construction. Once finished, its facilities included a large painting studio, a gallery to display paintings and a photographic darkroom. I was to teach painting and photography to Army dependents. The guy just hired to head the new craft shop was a civilian named John Gilmore, fresh out of Ole Miss with a Master’s Degree. “Ole Miss,” I queried, “hey, you didn’t know a guy there named Mike Dean, did you?” Mike was a close friend from Winter Park High School who had gone to school in Mississippi. He had worked with me on my early amateur comicbooks. “Sure, I know Mike!” Gilmore replied. This solidified our friendship. He also hired Rebekah as craft shop secretary. I continued painting, and my paintings hung in the gallery. John helped Reb and me in our filmmaking as well. Long story short, eventually I became a short-timer with less than a month until I became a civilian. John, in order to acquire a like budget to run things, had to spend all the money he had

Something Old… The ultra-mega-rare 1969 comicbook reprint compilation Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, No. 1, Bill Black’s first leap into the world of publishing. [Superman, Hawkman, Batman, & Spectre TM & © DC Comics; Captain America TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

together a 40-page book, Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol.1 No.2. Contents were comprised of this new 17-page Captain Marvel story, a reprint of a Golden Age “Captain Marvel” story (Otto Binder, C.C. Beck, and Pete Costanza’s “Captain Marvel Battles the God of Crime” from Captain Marvel Adventures #94, March 1949), a six-page “Sub-Mariner” story drawn by Bill Schwartz in 1967, and pin-ups of Golden Age heroes (including Captain Marvel Jr., Captain Midnight, Vigilante, and Captain 3-D). Somewhere between 100 and 500 copies were printed. In the meantime I had gotten together with Martin L. Greim, creator of the Comic Crusader fanzine, and Marty was mentoring me in the ways of fanzine publishing. I sent him a copy of PGAG for his suggestions on distribution. But Marty felt that I should not release this book, as he thought I could get into copyright trouble with Fawcett Publications. Even though they no longer published comics, they were still around and were a powerful entity. Heeding his advice I reluctantly destroyed all copies except for three that I kept for myself. At the time this seemed disastrous, but it really was a blessing in disguise. I took the artwork and reworked it to create Captain Paragon, who would be a character that I owned completely. True to his word, Warren editor Bill Parente began sending me scripts to illustrate for Creepy and Eerie. In fall of 1969 I launched Paragon Illustrated No. 1 and stayed in the fanzine business throughout the 1970s, while also working for

All In Color—As Long As It’s Red & White! (Above:) The PGAG V1#2 cover was recently given the full-color treatment by Bill Black. (Right:) Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, No. 2, original back cover, featuring a Mac Raboy-inspired Captain Marvel Jr. drawn by Bill Black. BB had no plans to bring back the Little Blue Cheese in his revival. [Shazam heroes TM & © DC Comics; other art © Bill Black.]

left. He asked me what he should get for the craft shop. I blurted out instantly, “Printing press!” So we drove to the A.B. Dick dealer in Savannah and within days we had the printing press set up in the old craft shop barracks. Of course, none of us had ever operated a printing press, but a fellow GI, Richard Smith, took on the task of learning. In 1968 I had drawn a book-length adventure that revived the Golden Age Captain Marvel, who had been out of circulation for 15 years. Being a big fan of Stan Lee’s more “realistic” approach to comic characters, I gave my version of the whimsical super-hero some personal problems. A villain known as The Shroud had put a spell on Captain Marvel, placing him in suspended animation for a decade and a half. Alien warrior women from the planet Rur come to Earth, as they have need of a super-powered being to champion their war efforts. Using advanced technology, they find Captain Marvel and choose to revive him, as he was dead to his world anyway. Regaining consciousness, Marvel rejects the Rur plan and returns to a world that he finds very much changed from the one he remembered. Obviously, neither Richard nor I mastered the art of offset printing in the few days I had left in the service, but I did cobble

Paragon‘s 1969 Captain Marvel “Revival”

In Four Colors—Just For Fun! Pp. 1-3 of the original 1969 story, colored and reworked by Bill Black in 2017. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; other art & story © Bill Black.]

advertising agencies, universities, and film production companies. In 1982 I launched AC Comics (then Americomics), which was one of the first five independent comic book publishers. AC’s first book starred Captain Paragon. I ran AC Comics for the next 34 years which, it would seem, is where “strange luck” intended for me to be.

“The Return Of Captain Marvel – Chapter One” What was my thinking on the revival of Captain Marvel? Captain Marvel Adventures had been one of my favorite comicbooks in my childhood days, but he had been gone since the early 1950s. Since then, the new Marvel Comics arrived, just about a decade after Captain Marvel had disappeared. Editor/writer Stan Lee took comics in a different direction, aiming his stories at college-age kids instead of children. To a large degree, comics had grown up and super-heroes were, at least at Marvel, far more than two-dimensional newsprint cut-outs. Here’s what I wrote in my first publication introducing “The Return of Captain Marvel.”:

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

[The original Captain Marvel] was a big, simple, good-hearted guy who had no problems that couldn’t be solved with a “Shazam.” But things are more complex today. What if [Captain] Marvel was revived ... let’s say by a swinging company like Marvel Comics... and lived again... could he cope with the hang-ups of our modern society? That was the premise. It would be a “What If?” type of story that would expose a straightforward, uncomplicated character to an ever increasingly complex world. The costume would stay the same (save for the elimination of the flower thingies on the cape), but the man who wore it would have to grow up fast to face the fast-paced society of the late 1960s.

The Eyes Have It The artwork on the Golden Age Captain Marvel was primarily done by C. C. Beck. The post-WWII stories were the best-drawn, and by 1948 that art had hit its stride and would remain excellent to the end of the run. The anatomy on our hero was perfect, though the over-all style was somewhat cartoony. Realistic rendering had no place in his whimsical adventures. The way his eyes were drawn was overly simplistic. They had two expressions: the squint which was represented by a single curved line, and amazement which was expressed by a single dot. For this revival, I kept the squint.

Feel The Burns The original hairstyle for Captain Marvel was short and close-cropped ... neat and respectable, as became a 1940s champion. In “The Return …” the Alien leader Proxima finds him with a 16-year hair growth, including beard. It is not depicted in the story, but a Rurian barber must have given Captain Marvel his new hairstyle. It was long and “expressive,” complete with sideburns. Why the sideburns? Possibly they were replicating the Rurian headgear, which had a similar design. Or it could be wishful thinking on the part of the artist who was, in his military service, forbidden to have both long hair and sideburns.

Color Me Steranko! Page 7 of the original 1969 story (with a Jim Steranko swipe from Captain America #113?); colored and reworked by Bill Black in 2017. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; other art & story © Bill Black.]

Above, when I say “grow up,” I refer to the fact that the true identity of the original Captain Marvel was Billy Batson, boy reporter. By saying the magic word “Shazam!” the boy was transformed into a mighty man with the supposed wisdom of Solomon. But, wise as Solomon was, he could not have dealt with the psychedelic ’60s. So, in “The Return …,” there is neither magic phrase nor boy reporter. The plot has Captain Marvel, not Billy, defeated by a powerful enemy, The Shroud, who had trapped the hero in suspended animation in the early 1950s. To the world, Captain

Marvel had become a just heroic memory of a bygone day. Enter Proxima, warrior woman from the planet Rur, who has come to Earth to enlist a super-human champion to aid in her interstellar battle against the Kronons. Finding the inert Marvel, Proxima uses advanced technology (science, not magic) to awaken him. Taking him to Rur would have no adverse effect on Earth, as he had been inactive for 16 years. Newly awakened, Captain Marvel is very befuddled. He cannot remember his other identity, and events of his own heroic past must be explained to him by his Alien

Paragon‘s 1969 Captain Marvel “Revival”

That’s Dick Clark, Not Clark Kent! Page 9, Chapter II, of the original 1969 story by Bill Black: “Since I didn’t have the original art, I combined the printed page from PGAG, Vol. 1, No. 2, p. 9 (which had the bottom half blurred), with the printed page from Paragon Presents No. 1 to make a complete page. That’s why this is now a ‘night’ scene.” BB based the protestor in the foreground on Dick Clark’s character in the 1968 crime-drama film Killers Three. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; other art & story © Bill Black; movie poster © the respective copyright holders.]

rescuer. Not willing to be anybody’s pawn, Captain Marvel crashes through the wall to escape. When he finds himself in Earth’s orbit high in space, he becomes convinced that what Proxima had told him must be true.

“The Power And The Peril – Chapter Two” Flying down to New York City, Captain Marvel encounters a hippie commune living in Central Park. Their colorful clothing is strange to a man from the drab 1950s, but he appreciates their peaceful demeanor. Without provocation, a girl, Libra, and her friends are accosted by a bully policeman. Remembering friendly beat cops from his past, Marvel is confused by this topsy-turvy situation and forces the policeman to drop his threatening night

stick. When police reinforcements are called, Libra leads Marvel with her friends into the abandoned subway that serves as their home. Underground, Libra enlightens the hero, bringing him up to speed on world-wide current events. Proxima has been monitoring all this from her spacecraft and sets things into motion that will force Captain Marvel to comply

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

“Captain Marvel Turns On: Journey Into Mind – Chapter Three” There was a third chapter to this initial entry, but unfortunately the artwork was not completed in time to make it into Paragon Golden Age Greats, Vol. 1, No. 2. In that story, a hippie convinces Captain Marvel that he can find insight by dropping a cube of LSD. During Marvel’s psychedelic hallucinations, we see visions of the wizard Shazam, Billy Batson, and the costumed Mary Marvel. (A page from this chapter appeared in Paragon Illustrated No. 1, 1969. The entire chapter, along with chapters one and two, was then all converted, with Captain Marvel becoming Captain Paragon, and appeared in Paragon Presents Captain Paragon No. 1, 1970.) Under the influence of the drug, Marvel barnstorms Manhattan, causing authorities to consider him a threat. As Proxima gloats over what she has accomplished, one of her crew, Dr. Mara, has compassion for the mishandled hero. Unbeknownst to her warrior chief, Mara had siphoned off and stored the energy that revitalized Captain Marvel. She uses the apparatus to imbue herself with super-powers. The chapter ends with another cliffhanger stating: “Next... Make Way For ?” That question is answered in Captain Paragon No. 1, 1972, wherein Mara comes to Captain Paragon’s aid as Ms. Marvel. Had the original Captain Marvel storyline continued, she would have become Paragon Publications’ version of Mary Marvel. Nowhere in any of the Captain Marvel/Captain Paragon tales is there any mention of Captain Marvel [Paragon], Jr.

Fifty-Year Cycle Page 16 of the original 1969 story; colored and reworked by Bill Black in 2017. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; other art & story © Bill Black.]

with her original plans for him. Deeper into the subterranean world, Marvel once again is confronted by his old enemy, The Shroud. Again here is a nod to the Golden Age origin, as Marvel passes through the chamber of the Seven Deadly Sins (a footnote directs the reader to the Golden Age “Captain Marvel” story that is reprinted elsewhere in the book). The Shroud attacks. But Captain Marvel’s strength has been exponentially enhanced by Proxima’s super-scientific technology. When he slugs the villain, The Shroud is killed. This happens before the startled eyes of the hippie commune, who now rebuke him as a violent killer. Captain Marvel, who has never before killed anybody, shows great remorse. He is stunned and confused by the peaceniks’ accusations.

Probably the most important plot device in this Captain Marvel revival was the fact that he had lost his memory and didn’t know who he was. Odds were against the chance of his ever uttering the word “Shazam,” so this could have been an extended storyline. This aspect of his personality was continued in the “Captain Paragon” stories, though it was discarded by the new “Captain Paragon” creative team (Greg Guler and Dan St. John) when Cap got his color series at AC Comics in 1983. I wrote the first story, in which Paragon employs private detective Harry Diamond to uncover his secret identity, but this was ignored when Guler and St. John sent him into outer space to battle the Kronons.

At AC Comics, Ms. Marvel became Stardust (to this day a member of the long running Femforce), and Proxima became a continuing villain in the AC Universe. So did The (Black) Shroud, who was the ultimate menace in a long Femforce story arc. (In fact, he’s making a comeback in a Paragon Publications revival now in production.) Harry Diamond returned in the Captain Paragon and the Sentinels of Justice series (AC Comics, 1985-86) after I returned to writing the stories. Artist Rik Levins and I were able to create a quite involved backstory of Paragon’s past that goes back to 1875.

Paragon‘s 1969 Captain Marvel “Revival”

[Aside: On the splash page of “The Power and the Peril,” the fellow in the foreground holding the protest sign is Dick Clark, or rather the character (Roger) that he played in the movie Killers Three (American International Pictures, 1968). Clark always had his finger on the pulse of young America and produced three anti-establishment movies for AIP in 1968 (Psych-Out, with music by Strawberry Alarm Clock and starring Jack Nicholson… Killers Three, which gave a nod to country-western music with Merle Haggard… and The Savage Seven with soundtrack by Iron Butterfly). I thought “Roger’s” image fit in perfectly with the storyline.] Captain Paragon still exists today in the pages of Femforce at AC Comics (www.accomics.com). Some years back he married Ms. Victory, team leader of that group, so he is often included in the “Femforce” adventures. AC Comics is considering a new Sentinels of Justice book, at least as a one-shot, so Paragon may leap into the forefront once again. I’ve always considered it a lucky break that I was dissuaded from publishing my original Captain Marvel revival. I mean, talk about longevity… Paragon has continued from 1970 to 2017, and his lifespan will extend into the future. On my drawing board now is a new “Captain Paragon” story set in the 1950s which will be the lead story in Paragon Illustrated No. 7. In my “retirement” I have come full circle and have launched Paragon Publications once again. I’m having fun, and having Captain Paragon along with me is frosting on the cake! NOTE: See two additional Bill Black illustrations on the following page.

A Pair Of Paragons Above is the splash page (with a John Buscema swipe from Avengers #58?) of the third chapter to Bill Black’s Captain Marvel revival that never appeared in Paragon Golden Age Greats V1#2 or anywhere else in this form. In the chapter, a hippie assured Captain Marvel that he could comprehend his situation by dropping LSD. CM’s hallucinations included him seeing old Shazam, Billy Batson, and Mary Marvel. The page with this scene appeared in Paragon Illustrated No. 1, 1969, but the entire chapter, plus chapters 1 and 2, were all converted from Captain Marvel into Captain Paragon, and appeared in Paragon Presents Captain Paragon No. 1 (1970). [Shazam heroes & related characters TM & © DC Comics; other art & story © Bill Black.]

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

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A Ms.-d Opportunity? (Above:) A Ms. “Mary”’ Marvel color piece from 1969 by Bill Black during the “revival” era, possibly done for an undisclosed fanzine, according to BB. [Shazam heroine TM & © DC Comics; other art © Bill Black.]

COMICS’ GOLDEN AGE LIVES AGAIN! RULAH • BULLETMAN CAT-MAN BLACK TERROR AVENGER PHANTOM LADY DAREDEVIL CRIMEBUSTER CAPTAIN FLASH SPY SMASHER SKYMAN • STUNTMAN THE OWL • MR. SCARLET COMMANDO YANK PYROMAN • GREEN LAMA THE EAGLE • IBIS

The above is just a partial list of characters that have appeared in AC Comics’ reprint titles such as MEN OF MYSTERY, GOLDEN AGE GREATS, and AMERICA’S GREATEST COMICS. Virtually all issues published to date are still available for purchase 24/7 with PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard. To find over 100 quality Golden Age reprints, go to the AC Comics website at <www.accomics.com>.

(Below:) By 1970, Captain Marvel had vanished once again, at least for a little while, with Captain Paragon taking his place at AC Comics, along with the new Ms. Marvel. This was, of course, several years before Marvel Comics introduced its own Ms. Marvel. Artwork by BB from Paragon Presents #1 (1970). [Captain Paragon & art TM & © AC Comics/Bill Black.]

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BACK ISSUE #102

ALTER EGO #152

ALTER EGO #153

ALTER EGO #154

DRAW #34

Unsung artist/writer LARRY IVIE conceived (and named!) the JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, helped develop T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS, brought EC art greats to the world of Edgar Rice Burroughs, and more! SANDY PLUNKETT chronicles his career, with art by FRAZETTA, CRANDALL, WOOD, KRENKEL, DOOLIN, and others! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

Remembering Fabulous FLO STEINBERG, Stan Lee’s gal Friday during the Marvel Age of Comics—with anecdotes and essays by pros and friends who knew and loved her! Rare Marvel art, Flo’s successor ROBIN GREEN interviewed by RICHARD ARNDT about her time at Marvel, and Robin’s 1971 article on Marvel for ROLLING STONE magazine! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

ALLEN BELLMAN (1940s Timely artist) interviewed by DR. MICHAEL J. VASSALLO, with art by SHORES, BURGOS, BRODSKY, SEKOWSKY, EVERETT, & JAFFEE. Plus Marvel’s ’70s heroines: LINDA FITE & PATY COCKRUM on The Cat, CAROLE SEULING on Shanna the She-Devil, & ROY THOMAS on Night Nurse—with art by SEVERIN, FRADON, ANDRU, and more! With FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

GREG HILDEBRANDT (of the Hildebrandt Brothers) reveals his working methods, BRAD WALKER (Aquaman, Guardians of the Galaxy, Birds of Prey, Legends of the Dark Knight) gives a how-to interview and demo, regular columnist JERRY ORDWAY, JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews the latest art supplies, and BRET BLEVINS and Draw! editor MIKE MANLEY’s Comic Art Bootcamp! Mature Readers Only.

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BACK ISSUE #103

BACK ISSUE #104

BACK ISSUE #105

BRICKJOURNAL #49

MERCS AND ANTIHEROES! Deadpool’s ROB LIEFELD and FABIAN NICIEZA interviewed! Histories of Cable, Taskmaster, Deathstroke the Terminator, the Vigilante, and Wild Dog, plus… Archie meets the Punisher?? Featuring TERRY BEATTY, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, PAUL KUPPERBERG, BATTON LASH, JEPH LOEB, DAVID MICHELINIE, MARV WOLFMAN, KEITH POLLARD, and others! Deadpool vs. Cable cover by LIEFELD!

ALL-STAR EDITORS ISSUE! Past and present editors reveal “How I Beat the Dreaded Deadline Doom”! Plus: ARCHIE GOODWIN and MARK GRUENWALD retrospectives, E. NELSON BRIDWELL interview, DIANA SCHUTZ interview, ALLAN ASHERMAN revisits DC’s ’70s editorial department, Marvel Assistant Editors’ Month, and a history of PERRY WHITE! With an unpublished 1981 Captain America cover by MIKE ZECK!

FOURTH WORLD AFTER KIRBY! Return(s) of the New Gods, Why Can’t Mister Miracle Escape Cancellation?, the Forever People, MIKE MIGNOLA’s unrealized New Gods animated movie, Fourth World in Hollywood, and an all-star lineup, including the work of JOHN BYRNE, PARIS CULLINS, J. M. DeMATTEIS, MARK EVANIER, MICHAEL GOLDEN, RICK HOBERG, WALTER SIMONSON, and more. STEVE RUDE cover!

DEADLY HANDS ISSUE! Histories of Iron Fist, Master of Kung Fu, Yang, the Bronze Tiger, Hands of the Dragon, NEAL ADAMS’ Armor, Marvel’s Deadly Hands of Kung Fu mag, & Hong Kong Phooey! Plus Muhammad Ali in toons and toys. Featuring JOHN BYRNE, CHRIS CLAREMONT, STEVE ENGLEHART, PAUL GULACY, LARRY HAMA, DOUG MOENCH, DENNY O’NEIL, JIM STARLIN, & others. Classic EARL NOREM cover!

40th ANNIVERSARY OF LEGO TECHNIC! GEOFF GRAY explores Technic history, JOE MENO interviews former LEGO Set Designer SØREN HOLM about the classic Technic Space Shuttle, MICHAEL BROWN shows off his Technic-scale AH-64, and more! Plus: Minifigure customizing from JARED K. BURKS’, step-by-step “You Can Build It” instructions by CHRISTOPHER DECK, BrickNerd’s DIY Fan Art, & more!

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TwoMorrows. The Future of Comics History.

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #16

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #17

KIRBY COLLECTOR #72

KIRBY COLLECTOR #73

A look at 75 years of Archie Comics’ characters and titles, from Archie and his pals ‘n gals to the mighty MLJ heroes of yesteryear and today’s “Dark Circle”! Also: Careerspanning interviews with The Fox’s DEAN HASPIEL and Kevin Keller’s cartoonist DAN PARENT, who both jam on our exclusive cover depicting a face-off between humor and heroes. Plus our usual features, including the hilarious FRED HEMBECK!

The legacy and influence of WALLACE WOOD, with a comprehensive essay about Woody’s career, extended interview with Wood assistant RALPH REESE (artist for Marvel’s horror comics, National Lampoon, and underground), a long chat with cover artist HILARY BARTA (Marvel inker, Plastic Man and America’s Best artist with ALAN MOORE), plus our usual columns, features, and the humor of HEMBECK!

FIGHT CLUB! Jack’s most powerful fights and in-your-face action: Real-life WAR EXPERIENCES, Marvel’s KID COWBOYS, the Madbomb saga and all those negative 1970s Marvel fan letters, interview with SCOTT McCLOUD on his Kirby-inspired punchfest DESTROY!!, rare Kirby interview, 2017 WonderCon Kirby Panel, MARK EVANIER, unpublished pencil art galleries, and more! Cover inked by DEAN HASPIEL!

ONE-SHOTS! Kirby’s best (and worst) short spurts on his wildest concepts: ANIMATION IDEAS, DINGBATS, JUSTICE INC., MANHUNTER, ATLAS, PRISONER, and more! Plus MARK EVANIER and our other regular panelists, rare Kirby interview, panels from the 2017 Kirby Centennial celebration, pencil art galleries, and some one-shot surprises! BIG BARDA #1 cover finishes by MIKE ROYER!

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It’s

GROOVY, baby!

Follow-up to Mark Voger’s smash hit MONSTER MASH!

From WOODSTOCK to “THE BANANA SPLITS,” from “SGT. PEPPER” to “H.R. PUFNSTUF,” from ALTAMONT to “THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY,” GROOVY is a far-out trip to the era of lava lamps and love beads. This profusely illustrated HARDCOVER BOOK, in PSYCHEDELIC COLOR, features interviews with icons of grooviness such as PETER MAX, BRIAN WILSON, PETER FONDA, MELANIE, DAVID CASSIDY, members of the JEFFERSON AIRPLANE, CREAM, THE DOORS, THE COWSILLS and VANILLA FUDGE; and cast members of groovy TV shows like “THE MONKEES,” “LAUGH-IN” and “THE BRADY BUNCH.” GROOVY revisits the era’s ROCK FESTIVALS, MOVIES, ART—even COMICS and CARTOONS, from the 1968 ‘mod’ WONDER WOMAN to R. CRUMB. A color-saturated pop-culture history written and designed by MARK VOGER (author of the acclaimed book MONSTER MASH), GROOVY is one trip that doesn’t require dangerous chemicals!

(192-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-080-9 • DIGITAL EDITION: $13.95

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