Alter Ego #17 by TwoMorrows Publishing

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MURPHY ANDERSON, ALEX TOTH, et al. ON A GOLDEN AGE ARTIST YOU CAN REALLY SINK YOUR TEETH INTO!

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“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

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DICK GIORDANO through the 1960s—from freelance years and Charlton “Action-Heroes” to his first stint at DC! Art by DITKO, APARO, BOYETTE, MORISI, McLAUGHLIN, GIL KANE, and others, Dick’s final convention panel with STEVE SKEATES and ROY THOMAS, JIM AMASH interviews Charlton artist TONY TALLARICO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and ROY ALD, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, GIORDANO cover, and more!

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1970s Bullpenner WARREN REECE talks about Marvel Comics and working with EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, STAN LEE, MARIE SEVERIN, ADAMS, FRIEDRICH, ROY THOMAS, and others, with rare art! DEWEY CASSELL spotlights Golden Age artist MIKE PEPPE, with art by TOTH, ANDRU, TUSKA, CELARDO, & LUBBERS, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, cover by EVERETT & BURGOS, and more!

Interview with inker SCOTT WILLIAMS from his days at Marvel and Image to his work with JIM LEE, and PATRICK OLIFFE demos how he produces Spider-Girl, Mighty Samson, and digital comics. Also, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, art supply reviews by “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

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LEGO SPACE WAR issue! A STARFIGHTER BUILDING LESSON by Peter Reid, WHY SPACE MARINES ARE SO POPULAR by Mark Stafford, a trip behind the scenes of LEGO’S NEW ALIEN CONQUEST SETS that hit store shelves earlier this year, plus JARED K. BURKS’ column on MINIFIGURE CUSTOMIZATION, building tips, event reports, our step-by-step “YOU CAN BUILD IT” INSTRUCTIONS, and more!

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Vol. 3, No. 17 / September 2002

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editors John Morrow Jon B. Cooke

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comics Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Cover Artists Luis Dominguez Lou Fine

Cover Colorists Luis Dominguez Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to: Neal Adams Murphy Anderson Henry Baba Tim Barnes Dennis Beaulieu Ray Bottorff, Jr. Bart Bush Pearl Cherry J.R. Cochran Teresa R. Davidson Fred L. deBoom Al Dellinges Jay Disbrow Luis Dominguez James Doty Arnold & Lillian Drake Gill Fox Elliot Fine Laurie Fine Shane Foley Ron Frantz Michael R. Grabois David G. Hamilton Paul Handler Bill Harper Hank Harrison Daniel Herman Bob Hughes

Steve Hurley Chris Irving John Jacobson Ken Kaffke Al Krackow Joe & Nadia Mannarino Richard Martines Tom Morehouse Michelle Nolan Eric NolenWeathington Joe Petrilak John G. Pierce Ethan Roberts Benno Rothschild Alvin Schwartz David Siegel Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Dann Thomas Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Hames Ware John Yon Ed Zeno Mike Zeno

— In Memoriam —

Robert Kanigher Tom Sutton

Contents Writer/Editorial: Well, This Is Another Fine Mess Youve ’ Gotten Us Into! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 “Lou Fine––A Comic Book Artist of Quality . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Dennis Beaulieu on the colorful career of a true comics master. A Fine Influence.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 Jim Amash examines the long, long shadow of Lou Fine. ...And A Fine Family! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 Three who knew and loved Lou Fine talk about his life—and theirs. Murphy Anderson on Lou Fine and Fiction House . . . . . . . . . 34 The Golden/Silver/Bronze Age super-artist on two fascinating topics. Toth on Fine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 Alex Toth says Fine just got “better and better.” Arnold Drake, FCA, Comics Crypt, & More . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Our sincerest thanks to collector John Yon, who sent us a full-size photostat of the original art of Lou Fine’s fantastic “Ray” splash from Smash Comics #31 (Nov. 1941) so we could get the best reproduction possible for our cover. You can see the whole splash page on page 3 of this section. [©2002 DC Comics.] Above: Shane Foley sent us the above “Black Condor” splash from a black-&-white comic published in Australia some years back. The story from Crack Comics #18 (Nov. 1941) was printed in full, along with a Fine “Ray” adventure as well, in the giant-size Superman #252 in 1972, which featured flying super-heroes. [©2002 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10.00 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Eight-issue subscriptions: $40 US, $80 Canada, $88 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Arnold Drake interview ©2002 Marc Svensson & Arnold Drake. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

“Well This Is Another FINE Mess You ve Gotten Us Into!” well! As for Alex Toth—it’s always great to hear from one of comics’ greatest designers.

And with the above punnish play on one of the most famous of Laurel-and-Hardy lines, we welcome you to another of those issues which, happily, got out of hand.

The only thing that would have made things more perfect would have been if Gil Kane, another of Fine’s greatest admirers, were still around to have added his own colorfully eloquent opinions to the mix.

It started out because both Jim Amash and I—along with a lot of our readers—wanted to know more about Lou Fine, the Golden Age great who, despite the relatively short time he spent in comic books, became one of the most influential artists in the medium’s history.

Now, because any added words I write might mean a piece of Lou Fine art that wouldn’t get printed, I’ll step aside and let the issue begin— after this note:

Jim did most of the work. First, in between inking assignments, he tracked down Lou’s son Elliot. Elliot, in turn, put him in touch with his sister Laurie and with their aunt, painter Pearl Cherry. Between what the three of them have to say, and the wealth of photos Elliot was able to provide, this issue of Alter Ego will doubtless tell you more than you ever knew about what made Lou Fine tick, and about the strong positive feelings that his son, daughter, and sister-in-law have about him, decades after his untimely death.

This is the first issue in which Bill Schelly, who’s been on A/E’s masthead as associate editor since the very beginning (and whose work concerning the early days of comics fandom led by an indirect route to the revival of Alter Ego a few years back), isn’t represented by an article under his “Comic Fandom Archive” banner. Pleading the need to spend more time on other pursuits, Bill will remain as an associate editor and will continue to contribute to A/E, though not quite in every issue as before. Hmmm... Bill and Roy are hard at work in tandem on one of next issue’s major features, a lengthy study of the great early ’60s science-fiction fanzine Xero and its famous seminal comics-related series “All in Color for a Dime”—and the pair are also readying coverage of the 1965 New York Comics Convention for an issue or two after that— so tell us, Bill, where’s all this copious “free time” going to come from? Sounds to us like you’re gonna be busier than ever!

In addition, along with a generous heaping of art featuring Black Condor, The Ray, The Spirit, Doll Man, and other heroes drawn by this Gargantua among heroic comics artists, we present four looks at Fine’s career—first, by collector Dennis Beaulieu... then by Jim himself... and finally by Alex Toth and Murphy Anderson, two comic book legends in their own right. Murphy, despite feeling a bit “interviewed out” of late, kindly consented to talk about his greatest artistic influence—and when the subject turned to the Fiction House comics of the 1940s and early ’50s, Mr. A. had a few cogent comments to make about them, as

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A Comic Book Artist of Quality

Lou Fine A Comic Book Artist of Quality by Dennis Beaulieu [Text 2002 Dennis Beaulieu.] ©

Louis Kenneth Fine was born in Manhattan (New York City) in 1915. A sensitive, quiet youth to begin with, his personality became even more introverted during his early teens after his left leg was crippled as a result of a polio epidemic. Since he could no longer participate in sports and other activities common for boys his age, Lou Fine channeled his youthful energy into developing his God-given talent to draw. He completely immersed himself in studying the great magazine illustration artists of his day. Heinrich Kley, the German pen artist sensation, was one of his

A super-rare photo of Lou Fine, taken by his friend and fellow artist Gill Fox in downtown Stamford, Connecticut, circa 1942. (For pics of Fine and Fox together, taken on the same occasion, see our Gill Fox interview in Alter Ego V3#12 and p. 19.)

earliest—and most intense—influences. Fine was also very heavily influenced by J.C. Leyendecker and Dean Cornwell, as well as by Saul Tepper, Harvey Dunn, Frank Reilly, and John R. Neill. He also studied the paintings of Frank Brangwyn. His formal art training came from attending the Grand Central Art School, the Art Students League, the Pratt Institute, and the New York School of Technology (where he was studying engineering at the time that he began his career moonlighting as an artist in the emerging field of comic books). It was during his time at Pratt that Fine began to truly master his ability to draw the human figure in action.

Transition As great a comic book artist as Lou Fine was, he worked in the industry for only a very brief period of time. From late 1938 to early 1943 he produced a prolific amount of covers and interior stories for Fiction House (’38–’40), Fox (’39–’40), and Quality Comics (’39–’43). Short in stature with red hair and steel rim glasses, he entered the comics field in 1938 when, as a temporary means to earn a steady ($10 a week) income, he began working for the Eisner & Iger shop. The Eisner & Iger shop was a comics production When Gill Fox sold John Yon the original art to this Fine page from Smash Comics #31 (Feb. 1942), the one-time Quality artist/editor wrote: “The enclosed Lou Fine ’Ray’ splash is absolutely pure Lou Fine. ’The Ray’ title lettering is my lettering!” Undoubtedly so—but A/E’s associate editor Jim Amash is convinced that another, less polished artist did some of the penciling in the trio of panels at bottom. “Just look at the perspective in the first panel!” Jim insists—and indeed, that small table in the background couldn’t be standing in that relation to the desk in the foreground unless there’d just been an earthquake! Most likely Fine counted on tying the whole thing together with his inking. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Lou Fine house (a “sweat shop”) that had recently been started by Will Eisner and Jerry Iger to create and produce entire comic books for publishers who would then print, distribute, and own the final product. Comic Magazines, Inc. (the official name of the entity otherwise known as Quality Comics), was one such publisher.

In 1941 Everett M. “Busy” Arnold, the owner and publisher of Quality Comics, hired Fine away from the Eisner & Iger shop by tripling his salary and giving him his Art by Heinrich Kley (1863-1945). own studio. It is well known among his many admirers that, during his comic book days, Fine was a slow, methodical draftsman. Because of this trait, he would often have to work overtime—frequently all night—to reach his required page quota at the Eisner-Iger shop.

“The Doll Man” started in Feature Comics #27 (Dec. 1939); even in #32 (May ’40) Fine was still drawing four rows of panels per page. In panel 8’s “stipple effect,” Darrel Dane’s body gives the visual appearance of turning to sand as he transforms into the diminutive hero. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Dennis Beaulieu. (A “saliva-drenched” page from Feature #32, referred to in this piece, was reprinted in A/E V3#12.) [©2002 DC Comics.]

Unlike the Eisner & Iger quota that had to be met on a regular basis, Busy Arnold did not demand that Fine produce any particular number of pages. This approach worked to Arnold’s advantage, as the artist proceeded to produce a very large amount of some of his very best work during his time as a member of the Quality staff. His beautiful interior stories and explosive covers for Quality are revered by both professionals and collectors as representing the ultimate in artistic achievement during the early years of the comic book industry.

Style In his History of Comics, Jim Steranko comments that “Fine... developed an uncanny knowledge of the human figure in action. His heroes were Olympian in stature, classically featured, and exquisitely, almost delicately, proportioned. Fine lavished a wealth of stipple, lineshaded, and cross-hatched detail with a brilliant brush-line technique [giving his work a spectacular, illustrative look of which many details were often lost in the final reproduction. —DB] not found in comics up to that point. An expert adept at nuance of character, he lingered over faces and hands to produce a gallery of expressive portraits etched in fear, hatred, avarice, and death.” This circa-1943 Lou Fine-drawn Spirit page, repro’d here from a photocopy of the original art, is from the personal collection of Daniel Herman, author of the recent Gil Kane: The Art of the Comics and Gil Kane: Art and Interviews. For information, contact Hermes Press at (724) 652-0511 or e-mail <Geerherm@sgi.net>. [©2002 Will Eisner.]

Lou Fine had a gifted ability to draw the human figure in a number

A Comic Book Artist of Quality

of stylish poses and in a variety of unique and offbeat situations that were completely foreign to other comic book artists of his day. He embellished his characters’ anatomy with a kind of grace and beauty seldom seen—even today—in comic art. While most super-hero artists followed an approach that emphasized power, Fine’s figures stressed motion and energy. His drawings were often intensely detailed, and he would express the motion and energy of his full—and even partial— figures by using extensive cross-hatch feathering, line shading, and even stipple technique. This stipple technique enhances the simple yet beautiful image of Darrel Dane transforming into The Doll Man as seen in the accompanying page from Feature Comics #32 (May 1940). To this day Fine remains one of the most influential figures in the history of comics for his sense of anatomy and excellent draftsmanship. A well known anecdote relating to Lou Fine’s style is the story of how Will Eisner, in an effort to save money, purchased a gross of Japanese brushes at five cents apiece instead of the typical Winsor & Newtons at 75¢ apiece. Eisner quickly realized that the needled-sized brush point and the stiffness of the bristles made the Japanese brush very difficult for his staff to control. Therefore, they were unable to use these new brushes. The only two exceptions were Eisner himself and Lou Fine. For Fine, these brushes enabled him to produce an extremely delicate inking style that allowed for more detailed cross-hatching and increased shading/texture lines on the smoothplate bristol board upon which he customarily worked. In fact, Eisner and Fine once competed as to who could draw the longest and thinnest straight line using a Japanese brush. By now it should be obvious who won. In an interview with artist and one-time Quality editor Gill Fox which appeared in CFAAPA #29 (Jan. 1993), Fox excitedly remarked: “Lou Fine was absolutely superb.... Lou came up with a great way to draw a hood or a stetson on a man’s head. There were black shadows over both eyes, and the nose would be just a white spot sticking out. Lou created that, and I still use that today.” Fine’s hood technique can be seen in the nine-page “Black Condor” story from Crack Comics #17 (Oct. 1941), various pages and panels of which are reproduced in this issue of Alter Ego.

At one time Dennis Beaulieu owned the original art to the entire “Black Condor” tale in Crack Comics #17 (Oct. 1941). Both Dennis and current owner Henry Baba generously sent us photocopies of the original art— Henry at the original humongous size! [©2002 DC Comics.]

Another interesting fact about Lou Fine that relates to his uniqueness and creativity is that he was the first to introduce saliva to the comic book industry. He did this to achieve an enhanced dramatic effect. Whenever Fine was working on a figure that had an open mouth (especially a villain’s, and usually during a very dramatic moment), he would draw a narrow thread of saliva between the upper and lower teeth. Fine’s dramatic use of saliva can be seen even in the mouth of an underwater shark in a “Doll Man” page from Feature #32 [and on the cover of this issue of Alter Ego. —Roy.] “Ghastly” Graham Ingels and Bernie Wrightson would later utilize this same effect with similar success.

Early Comic Book Work Lou Fine’s earliest documented comic book work appeared in Fiction House’s Jumbo Comics #4 (Dec. 1938). Coincidentally, it was in this issue that Fine took over artistic chores from a young Jack Kirby on “Wilton of the West,” “The Count of Monte Cristo,” and “Diary of Dr. Hayward” (also known as “Stuart Taylor”). Even during this very early period, Fine’s skillful artistry and rendition of the human figure make his work stand out from that of his contemporaries. In the “Count of Monte Cristo” page reproduced here, Edmond Dantes, our long-suffering hero, patiently displays his confidence, grace, and skill as a master swordsman as he battles his archenemy Mondego in a dramatic fight to the death. In the same way, Lou

Lou Fine human form, and his backgrounds and unique perspectives show the promise of things to come. Fine continued as the interior artist of “Doll Man” until Feature #37. In addition to his cover work, Lou Fine’s crowning achievement for Quality Comics is his interior art on “The Black Condor” and “The Ray,” both of which he penciled and elaborately inked, primarily by himself. Unbound from the restrictions of having to share his vision—and his work—with another artist, Fine’s Japanese brush linework on these two characters successfully presented the reader with a wide variety of new and unusual running, flying, and fighting action sequences. Figures in the “Black Condor” and “Ray” stories moved like none had ever moved before. The “Black Condor” story from Crack #17 represents Fine’s work during the peak of his Japanese brush period. His ability to express motion, energy, and grace is clearly evident beginning with the splash page [seen in A/E, V3 #12]. Although reduced reproduction fails to capture some of Fine’s brush-line technique, all shaded areas on the Indian (and his horse) who is being attacked by The Black Condor are done by use of cross-hatching, with virtually no use of solid blacks. Fine’s extensive use of lineshading can easily been seen through pages 3 and 4 (see pp. 24 & 39), and his sense of the dramatic explodes on page 5 (below). On pages 7 and 9 (see pp. 26 & 31), cross-hatching and line-shading emphasize the image of the heroic figure as he saves the day. Although not obvious in reproduction here, there are a number of panels in which Fine’s delicate brush strokes carry beyond the border of the panel. In those instances, white-out was used to tame the artist’s flamboyancy.

Fine’s “sense of the dramatic explodes on page 5,” as in these photostats from Crack #17 provided by Dennis. Other art from this classic episode is scattered throughout this issue of Alter Ego. [©2002 DC Comics.]

In his History of Comics Steranko states, “If Crandall was a more realistic storyteller, Fine was more imaginative and stylized. He thrust the reader beyond the literal, into the realm of fantasy. His richly romantic approach established a mood at once lyrical and enigmatic, yet charged with tense, feverish energy. Fine produced apocalyptic fables, his delicate art applying superb counterpoint to tales based on crime and violence. The two anomalies balanced out. The result, a stunning and compelling work of comic art.”

Fine displays his confidence, grace, and skill as a master draftsman as his images rival the best swashbuckling movie scenes of his day. Fine’s first super-hero cover art was for Fox Feature Syndicate’s Wonder Comics #2 (June 1939); his first interior super-hero art was on “The Flame,” whose adventures he brilliantly crafted for Wonderworld #3-13, especially in #7. (Wonderworld was the name to which the title of Fox’s Wonder Comics was changed with the series’ third issue.) The artist’s first Quality Comics work was on “Doll Man,” whose initial appearance was in Feature Comics #27 (Dec. ’39). Doll Man, Quality’s first super-hero, was one of Will Eisner’s early creations; it began as a four-page feature and was later expanded to a full eight pages. The earlier “Doll Man” stories utilized the then-standard arrangement of twelve equal-sized panels to a page. With each issue, Fine attempted new paneling techniques that utilized both irregular and wideout panel approaches. Although small when printed due to the twelve-panel arrangement, Fine’s figures clearly demonstrate his mastery of the Lou Fine was originally the keeper of “The Flame” in Fox’s Wonderworld Comics. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

A Comic Book Artist of Quality

From 1965 to 1967 the Caplin and Fine team produced another strip, Peter Scratch, about a tough private eye who lived with his mother. (Neal Adams ghosted Peter Scratch for several weeks in 1966.) Despite artwork that was professional and extremely well-done, none of these Fine/Caplin efforts became more than a moderate success.

Commercial Advertising

It wasn’t long before Lou Fine’s style became the official “house style” at the Quality Comics offices. It soon also became obvious that the company’s level of success with comic books from 1940 through 1942 was in large part due to the creativity, productivity, and influence of Louis K. Fine.

Comic Strips In the spring of 1942, Will Eisner was inducted into the armed services. Lou Fine was one of the artists who worked on the lead feature in Eisner’s weekly The Spirit newspaper magazine until Will returned. It was during this time that Fine was consciously transforming his style to a tight, slick, plainclothes realism. Although highly professional and more readily adaptable to a wider number of artistic venues, this new style was less robust and remains somewhat unappealing to Fine’s comic art fans when compared to his earlier style. Upon returning from the military in 1946, Will Eisner once again took over both writing and drawing The Spirit. It was at this time that Lou Fine gave up comic book work to move into commercial advertising, while working towards the development of a successful comic strip of his own. With writer Elliot Caplin, who at various times wrote Abbie an’ Slats, The Heart of Juliet Jones, and Big Ben Bolt, Fine drew Adam Ames, a soap opera strip, from 1959 until it ended in the early 1960s.

Unlike his somewhat fruitless attempts to develop a comic strip with real legs, the mid-1940s to late 1950s saw Lou Fine dominate the field of Sunday-funnies advertising strips and commercial art. He initially worked for Johnstone & Cushing, a top New York advertising art service. He eventually went out on his own and, as a one-man operation, successfully competed head-to-head with Johnstone & Cushing. His list of clients included Pepsi-Cola, General Foods, and Philip Morris. He also drew the classic advertising-strip characters “Mr. Coffee Nerves” and, for Wildroot Cream-Oil, “Sam Spade” and “Charlie Wild.” The advertising strip field began to fade by the late 1950s. Fine continued with advertising and commercial art for the remainder of his career. Dennis Beaulieu designated this piece of art as “Advertising Agency Travel series by Lou Fine, 1955.” From an ad for Pan American Airlines. [© 2002 the respective copyright holders.]

Lou Fine

Epilogue Of the many artists who have worked in the comic book industry, only a handful have actually helped to create the standards against which all other artists and their work are inevitably judged. Lou Fine was such an artist. He was a pioneer, a pathfinder, an early explorer who cleared the way for others to follow but who, unfortunately, never became fully aware of the magnitude with which his legacy helped influence the comic book medium for generations to come. Lou Fine died of a heart attack in the summer of 1971.

[Dennis Beaulieu, who has 19 years of extensive marketing, sales, and operational experience in the cable wireless, broadband, and telecommunications industries and has a degree in English and teaching, is a nationally known Lou Fine and Quality Comics collector, researcher, and historian. He, his wife Wendi, and their three children recently moved to the Seattle, Washington, area, where Dennis is now a Research Director for Hebert Research, a leading market research company. This article has been slightly edited from a version which appeared in CFA-APA #47 (Fall 1998).]

Bibliography The Encyclopedia of American Comics, edited by Ron Goulart (Promised Land Productions, 1990). The Lou Fine Index by Bart Bush (March 1987). The Art of Lou Fine by Gill Fox (published by Al Dellinges and Bill Sheridan, a.k.a. Cartoonews, 1979). Special Edition Series 2—The Ray and Black Condor, created by Alan Light (Special Edition Reprints, Inc., 1974). History of Comics, Vol. 2, by James Steranko (Supergraphics, 1972).

One of Lou Fine’s advertising accounts was drawing “The Adventures of Sam Spade” (featuring Dashiell Hammett’s seminal private eye from The Maltese Falcon, then big on radio until Hammett got in trouble with the House Un-American Activities Committee). This full-pager ran in DC (and other?) comics dated October 1947 (such as All-American Comics #90). Naturally, this story-ad for Wildroot Cream-Oil Hair Tonic was often the best-drawn feature in the comic book in which it appeared! Thanks to Tim Barnes for sending us a full listing of all “Sam Spade” ads. Tim’s address is 103, Tredworth Road, Gloucester, Glos GL1 4QU, England—and he’d love to hear from fellow Fine fanatics. [©2002 the respective copyright lder.]

A Fine Influence...

A Fine Influence... Notes on Lou Fine’s Style and His Importance to the Comic Book Field by Jim Amash There was a great sensitivity in the lyrical line work of Lou Fine that few ever equaled. If Fine had spent his all too brief comics career just inking, he still would be remembered to this day. Happily for us, he penciled and inked much of his own work (though he never wrote a script), influencing scores of comic book artists to follow. And not just by his ink lines. His approach to figure drawing and page layout set a new standard that others follow even today. Lou Fine started in comics at the Will Eisner & Jerry Iger shop. Fine’s storytelling was not up to the standard of the number-one man in comics history, Will Eisner, but his draftsmanship was. Fine wanted to be an illustrator in the tradition of John R. Neill, J.C. Leyendecker, Joseph Clement Coll, and Saul Tepper, as well as other past and contemporary artists. He also understood the dreamy imagery of Winsor McCay and the Art Deco movement. What Fine took from those artists

and passed down to other comic book artists was a graceful and naturalistic way to tell a story graphically. Fine’s earliest comic book work, while exhibiting the roughness of a beginner, was functional and his superior design sense evident. Most comic book artists of the time were working off of the styles of newspaper strip artists, some of whom were entering the fledgling business. At best, most of these beginners were cheap carbon copies of the greats, while other old-time newspaper cartoonists hadn’t made the cut and needed whatever work they could find. Lou Fine, who had studied art since childhood, wanted more than that for himself. Fine’s earliest work, as was employer Will Eisner’s, was in the old school tradition. However, the two men learned from each other and each fed off the synergy present in the Eisner & Iger shop. Eisner spent a fair amount of time trying to develop Fine into a storyteller. Fine, for his part, began developing techniques from his influences, which now included Flash Gordon artist Alex Raymond. His brush line became

Both Will Eisner (as “Willis Rensie”) and Lou Fine (as “Jack Cortez”) initially told stories in single-page dollops imitative of Sunday comic strips of the day, but appearing in early comic books. Jim Amash suggests the two of them learned from each other as they went along. This 1938 “Hawks of the Sea” page is repro’d from the Kitchen Sink’s 1986 hardcover collection edited by Dave Schreiner—while the final “Count of Monte Cristo” page, repro’d from a photocopy of the original art courtesy of Jerry Bails & Hames Ware, dates from 1940. [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

Lou Fine caused some of his heroic figures to stand taller than normal humans while still retaining their believability in the most energetic poses his mind could conceive. His flying figures floated and flew above the ground with astonishing ease, creating a new kind of aerial perspective that other artists still employ. Fine’s usage of long, flowing, continuous lines added to the decorative style of his picturemaking, reinforced by delicate cross-hatching for added depth of field. Little touches, such as drawing saliva in mouths, added tension and mood to an expressive gallery of faces. Even inanimate objects appeared alive.

This new way of delineating the human form in motion became more evident in others’ work. Jack Kirby, a rough-and-tumble street kid from New York’s Lower East Side, sat near Lou Fine in the Eisner & Iger shop. In later years, Kirby expressed great reverence towards Fine’s work. They spent time discussing how to draw human figures, and Kirby’s approach to figure drawing began to show Fine’s influence, especially in those early days. The definition lines that Fine used to portray hands and musculature became A very early Lou Fine page of “The Flame,” for Fox Comics, courtesy of Dennis Beaulieu. Jim Amash obvious in Kirby’s style. Kirby points out that panel 2 has “good use of spotting blacks.” [©2002 the respective copyright holder.] adapted Fine’s fluid twisting of more organic in quality, utilizing solid black areas more and more for bodies in motion and made it his own. Fine’s work had an organic feel effect. His effective use of the trap shadow motif of rendering wrinkles that Kirby eventually turned into a hard geometry. in clothes was not lost on Eisner. It is hard to pinpoint which of the two Kirby also picked up on Fine’s ever-increasing habit of stretching started using this technique first (J.C. Leyendecker was using it before figures out of the panel borders. Fine was one of the first comic book they were), as it seems to appear with regularity in both men’s work artists to understand that breaking up page design by panel composition simultaneously. But there’s little doubt that Eisner’s ink line became added to the dramatic pace of the stories. His figures in motion created more fluid once Fine became his employee. Eisner’s forms became more sweeping visual arcs for the eye to follow. His decorative use of line expressive, even as he became more and more of a cartoonist, while Fine added the necessary contextual cues for this effect. Fine varied the sizes was steeped in the illustrative tradition. and shapes of his panels, rejecting the previous notion of uniform rows Fine’s figures were generally well proportioned and lacked the stilted and columns, creating a harmonic symphony between figures and page awkwardness of ones drawn by many of his contemporaries. His figures layout. Though Kirby carried these new ideas to different extremes, were graceful, moving across the picture plane with great ease. During Fine’s influence is still there, proving that other artists were watching. this period in history, most people wore loose-fitting clothes. Fine found Everett “Busy” Arnold, publisher of Quality Comics, was watching, a way to show the musculature of arms, torsos, and legs through the too. So were his editors, Ed Cronin and Gill Fox. Arnold hired Fine clothing, making his figures more monumental in stature. His approach away from Eisner and his style, along with Eisner’s, became the to drawing clothes became a standard. Wrinkles were drawn accurately, benchmark for artists who worked for Quality Comics. Artists such as but with a life seemingly all their own. Inked with a Japanese brush, they Al Bryant, Reed Crandall, Alex Kotzky, and Gill Fox (who did the accentuated the movement of the human form in a free-flowing yet covers for Smash and Crack Comics, while Fine drew the lead stories controlled attitude. inside) were among those who followed Fine’s lead. Kotzky, in As Fine became more interested in the movement of figures, he particular, came the closest to understanding the Lou Fine style—an occasionally stretched the human form to unnatural proportions. It advantage gained by sharing a studio with the master for a year. Kotzky

A Fine Influence...

The third leg of the illustrative tripod at Quality Comics was Reed Crandall, who followed Lou Fine on “The Ray.” Crandall’s figures on this splash page from Smash Comics #27 (Oct. 1941) are “beautifully drawn, but stiff,” says Jim. “They seem posed compared to Fine’s work.” Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of John Yon. [©2002 DC Comics.]

The “body seen through clothes” motif—figures stretching out of panel borders (which greatly influenced Jack Kirby)—even the dramatically pointing finger that resembled early Kirby work. This page of original art, courtesy of Dennis Beaulieu, illustrates many of Jim Amash’s points. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Lou Fine

spent over thirty years as the artist on the newspaper comic strip Apartment 3-G, never losing the fluidity of human expression that he learned from Fine. Reed Crandall and Lou Fine were essentially brothers under the skin, as both were heavily influenced by the same artists. Crandall was already blossoming into a major talent on his own, but he became impressed by Fine’s figure drawing. He synthesized Fine’s approach to figure drawing, particularly when he followed Fine as the artist on “The Ray,” though his figures were much more static and contrived than Fine’s. During this period, Crandall shared the Quality Comics spotlight with Fine, as he became a major artistic force in the industry. There have been many other artists influenced by Lou Fine. The two who most retained this influence throughout their careers were Murphy Anderson and Gil Kane. These men understood, better than most, the beauty of the human figure. They seized upon Fine’s problem-solving approach to anatomy and incorporated it into their art. Kane concentrated more on the power of the human form in action, as his figure work (especially later in his career) became a tribute to Fine’s action-ladened forms. He rendered muscles stretched to their limits in the same way Fine’s figures did. Kane’s figures showed anatomy through their clothes to a higher degree than Fine’s, heightening the essence of muscular movement. Kane’s figures seldom seemed to have much fat in their body construction. Murphy Anderson started out depicting musculature in the same mode, though as time moved on his figure work became more naturalistic. Like Fine’s, his figure work was never awkward. He developed the fluid motion of the decorative, sensitive, tasteful line

“[Fine’s] flying figures floated and flew above the ground with astonishing ease, creating a new kind of aerial perspective that other artists still employ.” Repro’d from a photocopy of the original “Black Condor”/Crack #17 art, courtesy of John Yon. Jim also points out the Golden Age artist’s “flowing lines that accentuate movement,” and feels that “the plane wing in panel 5 leads the eye to the Black Condor figure in the next panel.” [©2002 DC Comics.]

work that he learned from Lou Fine, something Gil Kane never quite managed. Anderson’s style became so important to his major comic book employer, DC Comics, that it set a tone that others followed for many years. Anderson found himself inking more and penciling less, in order to spread his enormous talent over as many DC books as possible. We are several generations removed from Lou Fine’s time in comics, but even today his influence is felt. A few years ago, Rags Morales drew a Black Condor series for DC Comics, borrowing much from Fine’s style. Although the character had been changed for a new audience, Morales’ homage to Fine was the best of recent times.

One can still see the power, charm, and grace of Lou Fine’s best work in comics whenever artists draw figures idealized to their ultimate state.

A Fine Influence...

In the 1970s Alan Light reprinted Fine’s “Black Condor” and “Ray” work in a paperback volume nearly an inch thick. Though most of the black-&-white reproduction was a bit murky, the front and back covers (which included this “Condor” splash from Crack #16, Sept. 1941) and most of one interior “Ray” story were beautifully reproduced in color. Grab a copy of this book if you ever see it! [©2002 DC Comics.]

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...And A Fine Family

...And A Fine Family! Candid Interviews with the Son, Daughter, and Sister-in-Law of Louis K. Fine Conducted and Transcribed by Jim Amash JIM AMASH: When was your Part I: ELLIOT FINE father born? [INTRODUCTION #1: For my money, Lou Fine was one of the greatest comic book artists and illustrators who ever lived. I’ve long been fascinated and influenced by his work, as have many other comics artists, including Jack Kirby, Gil Kane, and Murphy Anderson. Until now, however, we have not had the luxury of knowing much about Lou Fine, the man... and that’s always bothered me. Now, thanks to his son, Elliot Fine, we have a chance to change that. I’m extremely grateful to Elliot for his time and for the opportunity to share with you a little history about an artist whose influence extends to today’s generation of comic book artists... whether they know it or not. —Jim.]

ELLIOT FINE: November 26, 1914. He was like Louis Armstrong in that we have different dates for his birth. At one point we weren’t sure. He was probably born in Brooklyn. My father was very close to his mother. His father was a house painter and probably a Russian immigrant, though I Elliot Fine. [Photo ©2002 Elliot Fine.] don’t know where he was born. His mother died when Dad was at Cooper Union, studying engineering. He went there because his father didn’t want him to be an artist. After his mother died, my father decided he was going to do what he wanted to do. That’s the basic story. His father’s name was Meyer. I don’t know what his mother’s name was, but my step-grandmother’s was Lena. I think the relationship between my father and his father was a bit difficult. JA: Most parents don’t want their children to be artists because it’s a hard life and usually very little money in return. FINE: Tell me about it! My father wanted me to be a banker. JA: Mine wanted me to be a lawyer, but I wanted to be an artist. My father was an immigrant and had a practical outlook on life. Immigrants usually have it tough when they come to America. FINE: My dad’s father probably had a tough life, too. My father had been drawing since the age of five, but part of that was due to the polio he contracted as a child. I think he had it from the age of two. It prevented him from playing ball and doing what other kids did. JA: Your father had a brother, didn’t he? FINE: Yes. His name was Sam, who was older than my father; he died in October 2000 at the age of 86. He also had a sister, but I don’t know much about her. My father came from a modest home in East New York, which was called Brownsville in those days, in Brooklyn. It was a tenement Jewish neighborhood back then. If any of the Fine family had a tough life as immigrants or during the Depression, it couldn’t have been much rougher than that of “Hack O’Hara,” the New York cabbie drawn by Lou Fine in early ’40s Quality comics. Thanks to Ron Frantz and Bart Bush, who repro’d this 5-pager from photostats of the original artwork in the 1987 comic The Art of Lou Fine and in the 1987 Lou Fine Index, respectively. For information about the Golden Age artwork reprinted by Ron Frantz, contact him at <Magilla445@aol.com>. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

Elliot Fine

JA: Even though your father had polio, he still went to public school. Was he a good student? FINE: He probably was, because he went to Cooper Union Engineering School, and that was a hard school to get into. Cooper was a publicly funded school and one of the best schools in the city. I think my father must have had some connections when he left Cooper, because he got into the comics field fairly easily. JA: Did your father talk about his childhood much? FINE: No. I don’t think it was a happy childhood. My grandfather was a stern character. JA: Do you know when your parents married? FINE: Written on a picture I have of them is “Second day of our honeymoon, June 1941.” They were up in Nantucket. My mother’s maiden name was Mary Sussman. [See photo on p. 20.] JA: That must have been right before they moved to Stamford, Connecticut. FINE: I think it was. You know, my father was involved in his comics work, but I don’t know if he connected to it the way some others might have. He was a pretty straight guy.

Lou Fine “was considered to be one of the top two artists at Quality”... the other being Reed Crandall. Part of the reason for Fine’s ascendancy was covers like this one for Hit Comics #17 (Nov. 1941), courtesy of Dennis Beaulieu. [©2002 DC Comics.]

JA: When were you born? FINE: December 7, 1944. I have an adopted sister, Laurie, who came along after I did. In terms of my father’s work, my earliest memories are of our family living in East Rockaway, a suburb of Long Island. My parents did what many urban couples of the time did. After the Second World War, they moved to a new development. They bought a ranchstyle house that had a lot of Frank Lloyd Wright design in it—stone and natural material—so it was a little more interesting than the typical development type of house, and the neighborhood attracted artistic types. The neighbors were art directors and other artists, and initially it was a pretty close community. It was a one-level house, but my father built an upstairs studio addition. It was really beautiful; it had red wood paneling and was very big. At least 800 square feet. He had his work area in one corner, and across from that was a living room area which I used to hang out in. Against the adjacent wall was a huge picture file collection, which was housed in specially built cabinets. Those are my earliest memories... just hanging out there. JA: Your father was considered to be one of the top two artists at Quality, and also one of the best in the comics business. A Fox Comics ad spotlighted Fine’s cover for Fantastic Comics #1 (Dec. 1939). Thanks again to Ron Frantz and his The Art of Lou Fine. Richard Kyle, in his great early ’60s fanzine article entitled “The Education of Victor Fox” said that Samson’s fur loincloth looked more like “pubic hair with delusions of grandeur”; you can learn more about Fine’s Fox work in Kyle’s study, still available in Hamster Press’ Comic Fandom Reader. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

FINE: Right. He did very well early on, but I don’t think he made his money from the comics. I think he made it from advertising, because he’d left comics long before this. We moved out there around 1950.

...And A Fine Family He was a great father, very warm and generous. I was a very spoiled kid. My parents really doted on me and I had a great childhood. We lived in an area that was suburban, but still kind of rural. We lived on a creek and my father had a boat and then I got a boat. All these “arty” guys got boats as soon as they moved there. It was a big adventure for these people to move from the city into this kind of life style. They saw themselves as pioneers.

JA: I assume, because of the polio, that he really couldn’t go out and play catch with you.

FINE: No, he could do that. He just couldn’t run or play a real game, but he had a great deal of strength. He walked with a limp but was quite mobile. We didn’t make a big deal about it. He didn’t use a cane, but it prevented him from being active in sports. He had a big physique and was very strong. JA: People have told me that he had been a weightlifter.

FINE: That could be. He was very broad-chested, but that was probably before my time, when he was younger. He was around the house all the time. That was the huge difference. He worked at home in that great studio, and that’s where I developed my artistic eye, by osmosis, by his work and by looking at his picture collection, which was very extensive. He had a ton of Big Little Books and an incredible file of Life, Look, and other magazines. He also had a darkroom because he was interested in photography, but at this time he was probably using it for making comps and blowing up photos. JA: You’re a photographer, so I assume this was part of your early influence. FINE: The picture file, yes. His darkroom, no. I had all these incredible diversions: other kids, woods, and creeks. And I was just out there having a blast. At that point, I had no interest in artistic things. JA: What did you think about the work your father was doing? Did other kids express interest in your father because he was an artist? FINE: That really wasn’t the case. I think I kind of knew that people had a certain regard for what he was doing, but I had no special interest in it. There are pictures of me drawing, but I don’t remember wanting to do what he did at that age. At that time, in that environment, we were really part of the new American materialism. I wanted to own stuff, and my friends were the same way. JA: Did your father encourage you to do well in school? FINE: Somewhat. Because his father was really strict, my father was more laid back, tolerant of whatever I wanted to do. He was supportive,

“He just wanted to draw.” And draw Lou Fine did—beautifully—as per these “Doll Man” splash pages. Thanks to Ken Kaffke. Incidentally, “William Erwin Maxwell” was a pseudonym of Will Eisner, who had conceived the Mighty Mite in ’39. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Elliot Fine

but I didn’t have any other interests besides what kids usually were interested in. My mother was extremely social and everybody loved her. She structured their social life because he was working all the time. He certainly wasn’t a recluse. He was easy-going, but he really liked to talk to people, and a lot of women would say that he was a great friend to them. He liked to talk to women. JA: [laughs] Most men do. I’ve talked to many people who knew your father and they all loved him. FINE: I think he was a really nice guy. People in my family say, “You remind me of your father,” but I say he was a lot nicer. He was more generous. JA: Generous? You mean money-wise or otherwise? FINE: In every way. JA: Do you think the Depression affected how your father viewed money matters? FINE: I’m sure it did. He did fairly well, early on, and my uncles were impressed by that. JA: So he wasn’t that strict with you?

FINE: He really wasn’t. My mother was much stricter. I have a few memories of when he was really annoyed with me, but I don’t know if he ever gave me a “wallop.” My mother was the disciplinarian. She probably paid the bills, too. [laughs] She was a full-time mother. I don’t think my father was a shrewd businessperson. Later on, I took an interest in following his accounts. JA: Did he like to work? FINE: Oh, yes. He loved to draw. When he was doing advertising, I saw some things that I didn’t think had great merit, but I don’t think it bothered him. He just wanted to draw. JA: Did he draw for pleasure? FINE: He painted a little bit. He painted before I was born, but I think those paintings were probably more interesting than his later ones. The later ones had technical skill, but I didn’t think they were that interesting. If you looked at those and compared them to his illustrations, there’s no comparison. I think he had really lost contact with fine art because of all his years in commercial art. I think he had an appreciation for fine art, but he never discussed that. We didn’t talk about art in the house. I don’t think I ever went to art museums with him. We’d go to the Planetarium. JA: When he painted, was he trying to be realistic or was he an Impressionist?

FINE: Somewhere in between. I’m sure he could have been really good if he’d had the time to set his mind to it. The paintings he produced in his later years... I just think he’d lost contact with the fine art world. I found the paintings to be a little too sentimental. JA: Was he a sentimental man? FINE: He was. JA: How was he during the holiday season? FINE: Just like everybody else. My father was a very normal guy. This is not a Picasso type of story. He was just an incredible draftsman who did great comic book work and fine advertising art. My parents were very social, but what came first was family. It was a very extended family. My father loved his father-in-law and he really liked my mother’s family, maybe more so because of his family situation. He got very involved with my mother’s family. That went on until my mother died. The whole family kind of fell apart when that happened. JA: Your parents really cared about each other. FINE: Yes, they were very happy. They loved to travel and we went on many family trips, to New England and places like that. It’s a sad story because my parents were so happy and then my mother died at a young age. Everything changed for all of us. You hear these stories about people who had unhappy childhoods and that they haven’t resolved

...And A Fine Family

things with their parents, but it was the opposite with me.

FINE: Not especially, no.

JA: What were your father’s hobbies?

JA: Your father didn’t talk much about his work, did he?

FINE: I don’t think he had hobbies, because he drew all the time. He did chores around the house and tried to get me to do them, too.

FINE: The business ran in cycles and he had some tough years. He had one business partnership that wasn’t particularly pleasant. He always did advertising, except for when he did comic strips. He did stuff for American Weekly, so he was doing newspaper and magazine work.

My wife and I had a farmhouse in Pennsylvania, and I did a tremendous amount of yard work there: cutting trees and gardening. My father would have been amazed and amused, because he was always trying to get me to help out with the lawn and I hated it. Besides his work his main interest was his family life. I don’t think he was a great reader; neither of my parents were. JA: Was your father an introspective man? FINE: Not to any great degree. He knew himself pretty well, but he wasn’t a philosopher. He just wanted to get on with things. I remember, when he’d become annoyed at me when I was kind of fussing around, he’d say “Get on with it!” He felt I should really know what I wanted to do and wasn’t convinced that I did. JA: Your father was a liberal, politically speaking? FINE: Absolutely. The whole family loved Franklin Roosevelt. I’m sure my father discussed politics and he voted on a regular basis. But he wasn’t involved in any political parties and he didn’t go to any meetings. He listened to talk radio all the time; he didn’t listen to music. He followed things pretty closely. Many of the family members engaged in political discussions. My Aunt Pearl’s brothers and others were much more engaged than my father. It was a part of their world. JA: Was your father the type of man you could easily go to with a problem? FINE: I’d say so. His friends could confide in him. JA: Was he a religious man?

JA: And earlier on, he worked for Johnstone and Cushing as one of their top artists. Gill Fox told me that when Lou Fine went to a place looking for work and showed his portfolio, the competition ended. His work was that good. FINE: I think it depended on the time period, because styles change. I think it probably helped him and hurt him sometimes, because he was type-cast as a cartoonist/illustrator. I had heard that he did the Philip Morris “Johnny” character. That was a huge campaign. JA: Have you seen much of his comic book work?

Nope, you don’t remember this photo of Lou Fine (left) and his friend, editor, and fellow artist Gill Fox from our Fox interview in Alter Ego V3#12. This is a different one, though taken that same day in Stamford, Connecticut, in either “December 1941” or 1942. [Photo ©2002 Elliot Fine.]

...And A Fine Family FINE: I’ve seen a little from some books. JA: He was considered to be an influence on many comic book artists.

FINE: From what I gather, comic books didn’t pay that much in those days, and that’s why he left the business. I don’t know whether it was an aesthetic reason or not; it was probably a financial issue.

JA: It probably was, but he was also influenced by a lot of illustrators, like Henrich Kley, J.C. Leyendecker, Al Dorne, and John R. Neill. FINE: I think he also studied at the Brooklyn Museum with Frank Reilly for about six months. I think my father went into comics because that was the first opportunity available to him. It wasn’t that he had a head for that kind of work and that kind of thinking. JA: I’ve always heard he really wanted to be an illustrator. FINE: I think that’s true. When I look at this world of fantasy, there’s a bit of a disconnect, because my father was not into fantasy; he wasn’t a guy who wanted to tell fantastical stories. He was a very grounded kind of guy... a realist. If anything, he probably admired Edward Hopper and the Ashcan School of Illustrators. He was a serious guy who’d had difficulties in his life, especially his childhood, to overcome. These things probably made him more aware and sensitive. He was a very sensitive man. Women just loved him. He was interested in design and decorating and women loved to talk to him about those things.

newspaper strips? FINE: I used to go with him when he went to see his writer, Eliot Caplin. I got a kick out of that. I sort of became my father’s business manager. I was about fifteen at the time, and more interested in money than he was. I was a suburban kid and where I lived, money was a big thing. Eliot Caplin seemed like a nice guy. When my father had to meet with these people, he’d drive into Long Island, park the car, and get on a train to go drop work off. And I’d go with him. The two strips they did were Adam Ames and Peter Scratch. But neither one of them made it big. It was curious, because Adam Ames was about a widower and that was my father’s situation, initially. JA: Do you think there may have been some autobiographical material in the strip? FINE: Perhaps. I know the character was based on the actor, Leslie Howard. It was really interesting that my father chose him, because the image that Howard portrayed was not the rugged American type of look that was then in vogue. At this time, I was very interested in his work. I was very aware of what the competition was from other strips. For example, there was Mary Worth, which was a big, big strip, and I’d compare it to what my father was doing. I understand that sometimes, the artist draws a story from a plot, and then a writer goes back and writes. I don’t know if he worked that way with Caplin, but it’s something that’s in the back of my mind. JA: Since Adam Ames had something in common with your father’s life at one point, it’s possible. He could have had some writing input.

JA: Was your father proud that he was an artist? FINE: I think he was. In the 1950s, I think it became a bit of a struggle to get work. I know my parents cut back on some things; I didn’t go to the same summer camps that I had gone to earlier. JA: What did your mother die from? FINE: She had a heart valve defect, which they figured out how to cure a few years after she died. It was a birth defect. She died in 1956. My father was traumatized. They were very, very close and we were all traumatized. JA: Was it expected? FINE: I don’t really know. They knew she was vulnerable. Even as a child, when she was strong and energetic, I knew there were certain things she couldn’t do. JA: Your father remarried afterwards. Is this something you want to talk about? FINE: Not really. It’s a difficult thing to talk about. JA: Did much time pass in between marriages? FINE: Not really. He thought we needed a mother. Actually, my Aunt Pearl and her whole family lived with us after my mother died. I think the woman he married was probably a nice woman, but there were problems. JA: What do you remember about your father when he was doing

One of the early fan-studies of Fine’s art was the Lou Fine Index, written and published by Bart Bush in 1987, which featured the artist’s renditions of The Ray, The Flame, and Uncle Sam on the cover. [©2002 DC Comics and other respective copyright holders.]

...And A Fine Family FINE: Well, it was similar in the sense that it was about a widower with kids. The world in the strip was very different than my father’s life. JA: He could have made some plot suggestions. FINE: Perhaps, but Caplin was a strong-minded guy. How much input my father had is something I don’t know. There was talk about my father working on Li’l Abner, with Al Capp [Elliot Caplin’s brother], but he didn’t want to do that. It would have been very different than what he wanted to do.

JA: Your father saw his career vanishing and he didn’t like it. FINE: Absolutely not. It didn’t vanish but it really cut into his career. JA: It’s happening again today in comics. Video game sales have really hurt the comic books. FINE: I think all these fields have that happen. When I said my father wanted me to be a banker, it wasn’t that he had no regard for what he did. He just felt I shouldn’t have to lead the freelance life. In retrospect, he should have gotten me into it when I was thirteen. I didn’t get into photography until I was in my mid-twenties.

I do remember the letterer on the strip, Irving Watanabe. We used to deliver strips to him in Jackson Heights, and hang out with Irving. We spent many, many evenings there. He was a very nice man and a very good letterer.

JA: Did you know early on that you wanted to be a photographer? FINE: No. I was at the London School of Economics, but I wasn’t into economics at that level. It was one of the world’s great schools for economics. I bought a camera before I went there, and that’s when I started doing photography. I was there for a year and didn’t take it as seriously as I had to.

JA: How did your father feel about doing newspaper strips? FINE: I think he liked it in the sense that it was a steady gig. He liked doing that kind of drawing. My father didn’t like promoting himself or going around to get jobs. JA: That’s intriguing, because your father certainly had no insecurities about the quality of his work. Do you think he might have had an insecurity about himself because of the limp?

FINE: Perhaps. JA: Because no one could do the quality of work he did unless he was very self-assured. FINE: That’s right. He knew what he was doing, but he had to use different styles in advertising. You could be the greatest comic book illustrator in the world, but if that’s not what’s in style, you’re going uphill, no matter who you are. JA: Very true, but to a cartoonist, getting your own newspaper strip is like the Mecca of comic art. FINE: Yes, you could do very well with them. Big money was there to be had. My father and Caplin were with the big newspaper syndicates, and those syndicates had major strips. I wanted my father to go the same way, but it didn’t happen. JA: At that time, it was hard to get adventure strips off the ground because humor strips like Peanuts had really started taking over. FINE: And television, too. I think my father’s commercial art career was negatively impacted by two medias: commercial photography and television. My father was very conflicted about photography. Irving Penn started out as an illustrator and then became a famous fashion photographer for Vogue. He was in the same league with Richard Avedon. Penn has work in the Museum of Modern Art. My father would put Penn down a little bit. It was really jealousy, because photography was really impacting their studio. My father said, “He got into photography because he couldn’t cut it as an illustrator.” He didn’t appreciate the new medium. Photography had been around for many years, but it was only in the 1950s that it was really coming into its own in regards to its use in advertising. It made it hard for illustrators.

FINE: He was pretty unhappy. For the first year or so that I was a photographer, he was quite skeptical. He was drawing at the age of five, and was very self-motivated. He didn’t see that interest in me before. JA: But you’ve done quite well for yourself.

FINE: Well, I think I had his artistic eye. Before he died, he did see that my portfolio was at a certain level that he could appreciate and see the seriousness of it. JA: That probably gave him a lot of pride. FINE: [laughs] I don’t know that I was making a lot of money at that point. JA: Maybe not, but the fact that the quality was there must have meant a lot to him. FINE: My father had this thing. He’d always tell me that talent is only 10% of it. The other 90% of it is work. He was absolutely right. JA: You sound pretty well grounded. I think he’d have been very proud of the way your life has gone. FINE: I think he would have. He’d have been proud of the work I do, the way we live, and he certainly would have loved my wife. We travel a lot and live very nicely. JA: How did he handle it when his newspaper strips failed? FINE: I don’t know if he took it hard, but he had to make a living. He was disappointed, because going out and finding other work meant he had to hustle. He definitely didn’t like to hustle. He was a self-effacing type of guy. I’m sure he could have had a huge commercial career if he had been a slicker sort of guy. He had the skills and the contacts. He could have had a successful strip, because they were looking for people, but he didn’t know that.

Elliot Fine

JA: Your father wasn’t a cartoonist. Did he have an interest in it? FINE: You mean like the panel strips that Gill Fox did? I don’t think that interested my father. He was an illustrator. JA: Did he watch much television? FINE: Well, I watched a lot of television. [laughs] He used to tell me to turn it off. He didn’t watch much television and wasn’t much of a movie-goer. He worked. Outside of work and family, what he really liked to do was to travel. He didn’t go to resorts. He liked to see landscapes. As I told you, he’d go up to New England and paint at the fishing villages. He’d go up to Canada and rent a cabin and paint. We probably fished a little bit in East Rockaway, because we used to do that in our motorboat. JA: What did your father do after Peter Scratch ended in the mid-1960s? FINE: I think he had some advertising accounts. JA: How did your father die? FINE: He had a heart attack.

These Lou Fine “doodles” were first published in Ron Frantz’s 1987 The Art of Lou Fine, under the title “In Search of Expression.” They were originally drawn on the back of one of the “Hack O’Hara” pages. [©2002 the estate of Lou Fine.]

JA: Were you aware that he had heart problems? FINE: A little bit. He’d had a problem in his late forties and was taking medication. He didn’t see a cardiologist; he saw his family doctor. I see a

Everyone deserves a

Golden Age!

cardiologist because of my family history, and they watch me like a hawk. Things are totally different now. JA: Did your father smoke? FINE: Yes, and that was a bad thing. He was a heavy cigarette smoker. JA: Did he drink? FINE: I don’t think he drank. He smoked and had a sedentary life style, which was bad in terms of his health. JA: Because of the problem with his leg, he probably didn’t exercise. FINE: Exactly. He walked, but couldn’t exercise vigorously. I don’t know how much he walked, but he didn’t get enough exercise. JA: Didn’t you tell me that his sister-in-law Pearl is an artist, too? FINE: Yes, she is. And she sells quite a bit of work. JA: Did your father influence her? FINE: I think she was probably interested and he encouraged her. But she can tell you about that. For many years, she was in the women’s fashion business, and she had her own store, designing her own clothing. She’s always been a great decorator. In the last fifteen to twenty years, she’s been a painter. JA: Do you have a favorite memory of him? FINE: I think the memory of being in his studio really means a lot to me. I never went to art school, and I think that’s where I developed my eye. Composition came very naturally to me.

GiVE BACK TO THE CREATORS WHO GAVE YOU YOUR DREAMS.

JA: So he did influence you?

FINE: Yes, he did. You know, the main interest to me was that he was a normal, steady guy who did great work. Some of the comic book work he did was wild, so maybe there was a “hidden” Lou Fine. The work he did took great imagination.

...And A Fine Family

Part II: LAURIE FINE [INTRODUCTION II: Our trilogy of family interviews shows how Lou Fine’s life typifies the story of a successful working artist in America. He works for what he gets, always longing for something better. Sometimes he reaches that elusive star; at other times, he falls short. But he always tries, never admitting defeat, continually staying true to the core of his being. Laurie Fine’s sensitive portrait of her father helps complete a picture of a special man whose human side affected the character and quality of those who loved him. —Jim.] JIM AMASH: Your brother Elliot told me you were adopted. Do you want to talk about that? LAURIE FINE: I believe she [Mary Fine] had a couple of miscarriages after Elliot was born, so she was warned not to have more children. My parents wanted another child, so that’s how I came into the family. I was born in 1951. JA: What are your earliest memories of your father? FINE: He was very easy to negotiate with and tended to give in a little easy, but when discipline needed to be taken, he was quite able to do so.

I remember a happy, happy home. When I was sick, he’d bring me a Ginny doll, whose eyes opened and closed. They were all the rage then. He used to take me to Chinatown and buy me Chinese pajamas and a robe. I just loved it. We had a housekeeper named Mrs. B. We didn’t have a mansion; just a ranch-style home in East Rockaway, New York. JA: How did you view your father when you were a child? FINE: I could always sit on his knee without fear. I could cry and not get in trouble, but would be told I was too sensitive. He was the boss but didn’t really focus on that as Lou Fine with Laurie as a child. his role. He was [Photo ©2002 Elliot Fine.] my hero; the kind of man I’d have liked to have married. I could totally trust him. He was dear old Dad, like the song. I’m so blessed to have had that because it’s so uncommon now. I don’t want to make this sound like the American dream, because we weren’t raised around wealth. We were practical people. This isn’t a Hollywood story at all. My dad started out poor. He was the kind of person who got the job done because no one else could do it. When my grandfather was put in a nursing home, Dad was the only sibling to visit him every Saturday. He took on the whole role of caretaker and did the jobs no one else would do. He loved his mother and father and never complained. It would eat at his heart because he wasn’t that healthy. He had no time to complain. JA: Everyone I’ve ever talked to about your father says he wasn’t a complainer; not even about his leg. FINE: That’s right. He never told me about the Holocaust, either. Some people don’t want to lay their problems on others. I did notice that, whenever he had to go somewhere in a hurry and jog on that leg, it hurt. I could see his face crunch. I remember he tripped on something once while in the attic and he had trouble catching his balance. That look he gave upset me. JA: Most kids see their parents as a tower of strength. FINE: Yes, but I didn’t see him that way. I knew he wasn’t a strong man and always wanted to be there to catch him if he fell. I’ll give you two examples. Once, we went camping, and my father took Elliot and me to a town named Beaverkill, New York. We had a tent and I brought along an air mattress. I thought I’d do everyone the favor of sleeping outside of the tent on the air mattress so nobody would get bitten by the bugs except for me. Later, it was brought to my attention that my father should have had the air mattress because it would’ve made him more comfortable. But I didn’t realize that at the time. I was trying to protect him, but he was protecting me. Another thing I remember about my dad was him telling me the story about my adoption. He said my

Laurie Fine JA: In order to be an adoptive parent, you have to really be a loving person and want someone to give love to and show love to. FINE: Yes, but don’t think of my dad like an icon because you’ll be missing the whole point. He wasn’t perfect. JA: Were you told at an early age that you were adopted? FINE: I think I was told but I didn’t understand what it meant. When I was about nine, my step-sister told me I was adopted. I ran to my dad and asked if it were true. He said, “Yes.” I started to cry, saying, “Dad, I want to be part of your flesh and blood.” And he had the kind of look that, say, your girlfriend had hurt you and she didn’t realize it. He had that look on his face and said, “Oh, don’t cry.” He didn’t know what to do. I thought my stepsister had lied to me, but my father reminded me about the story of Eggy. Only, I was too young at the time to make the connection. JA: You were very young when Mary died. How much about her do you remember? FINE: She died when I was about six years old. I remember that she was a perfect match for my father. Mary had these great shoes made out of suede. I had thrown up in the car, all over her shoes. There was a hush in the car because... who plans to throw up, you know? I remember another time (I was about four), we got into the car and my mother patted me on the butt, saying, “Come on, baby, let’s go.” When she did that, she realized I wasn’t wearing any underwear and made me go back in the house and put some on. She wasn’t, like, “This is cute.” She was just like my dad; when the job needed to be done, it got done. My parents knew right from wrong and taught us that. Mary wasn’t healthy, either, and I think their health problems contributed to their gentleness. They were gentle people.

This magnificent page from the “Black Condor” story in Crack Comics #17 has been repro’d from a full-size photostat of the original art, courtesy of Henry Baba. Note the coloring notes done in numbers—“3:skin” for the Indians. [©2002 DC Comics.]

mother’s name was Eggy; I don’t know why he told me that. Maybe it dawned on me later that it was a fertilization thing... I don’t know. He’d make these things up because he didn’t know how else to explain it. He bought me this book, called The Chosen Baby. It was about a little girl who was adopted, so I asked him where babies come from. He said the daddy plants the seed in the mommy, so I thought it was like the dad planted a flower seed in the mommy. He was wise but didn’t know how to explain it. We had a good chemistry. God put me in that family because He knew I needed a representation of what God was like. The face of love. That was my father’s personality.

They sent Elliot and me to Hebrew school on Saturdays. They did try to care about their faith, but that wasn’t long-lived. When Mom died, Dad kind of veered away from that. He was changing. He was devastated when Mary died. It was difficult for him. JA: Was your father having health problems

when you came along? FINE: I don’t know. I was recently told by a friend’s mom that he had a heart attack when I was about thirteen. I didn’t realize it at the time. My friend and I were into shoplifting at the time and we got caught. They had told me at that time that my father had a heart attack, but I didn’t remember that. I was into rebellion at the time and was only thinking about myself. When I was about seven, I got caught stealing doll clothes at Fred’s Department Store. Dad marched me right down there and I had to tell Fred what I did. He was not playing around. He never lifted his hand

...And A Fine Family

Minus art credit, Lou Fine drew the Space Conquerors feature each month in Boy’s Life, the magazine of the Boy Scouts. Al Stenzel was the art director of Johnstone and Cushing art service. Stenzel later bought Johnstone and Cushing out and changed the company’s name to Al Stenzel Productions. But even if Stenzel (perhaps) created the series, why two bylines for him? Thanks to Benno Rothschild. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

and probably gave me a lollipop to eat along the way to make it easier. As a child, I was playing the game and didn’t have a heavy-handed mother at that time. Sarah (my step-mother) was the one who alerted my father to the situation.

JA: I understand what you’re saying. You know, I don’t usually ask personal questions of those I interview or intrude into your personal business. But some of that happens when I asked you and Elliot about your father.

I went off to boarding school when I was in the seventh grade. I knew I was hanging around the wrong crowd and said to Dad, “I want to go to boarding school. I don’t want to go with the wrong crowd.” That weekend, he took me to a boarding school and I was enrolled in that school on Monday. I was there for three years. He knew I needed to get away. It didn’t matter what it cost him. He came up to visit me every other Saturday.

FINE: Well, we must make you feel like you can, don’t we?

JA: Was he the kind of father who’d hug and kiss you? Did he tell you bedtime stories? FINE: Oh, yeah. Better than that, Jim: when my penmanship wasn’t very good, he would sit down and give me writing exercises. He spent that time with me. He gave me a lot of special attention and was a very loving man. JA: I figured he was like that, because fathers usually treat their daughters differently than their sons. Your father’s comic book work is full of loving, sensitive lines, and that could only come from a man who has those feelings inside himself. FINE: Yes. And he had a satirical way about him, too. It gave him a little bit of an edge, like, “You can’t kid me. I know what’s going on.” He didn’t make a big thing about it, but he knew what was going on. He knew the games kids played. And it took me a long time to really grow up. I had some problems but have worked them all out now.

JA: Oh, yes. You are very special, giving people. FINE: Isn’t that a reflection of my dad? JA: I’d say so. And experiencing the kindness of your family has given me shows what a good man your father was. That’s one of the finest tributes a parent can have and makes me admire your father even more. FINE: You’re asking questions because you care. I’m very proud of our family’s story. I’m proud of my Aunt Pearl and Elliot and my stepmother Sarah, and my Christian faith. Sarah’s a special lady, and I’ve taken the time to get to know her. JA: There was a gap between the times your father was married, wasn’t there? FINE: Not much of a gap. Mary’s brother Barney introduced Dad to Sarah about a year after Mary died. JA: How interested was your father in your schooling? FINE: I have a perfect story for that. My father was very, very set on me going to Sarah Lawrence. I was an underachiever to the point that I could handle myself socially and people would be impressed. But I didn’t know the value of applying myself, which since has changed. I

Laurie Fine JA: Your father may not been an overly religious man but he seems to have had a strong sense of spirituality. FINE: I’d say he was a wise man of convictions. A man who knew what to do to get the best out of you. It was never verbalized, like, “God says this” or “God says that.” He had a definite need to love and be loved. I can’t tell you where it all came from, but I do agree with what you said. He was a very down-to-Earth person. Believe me, you could not get him off that ground. And to me, that’s impossible unless you have God in your life. So that’s a clue to his character. I can’t stress enough that he was the kind of father you could go to with a problem. He was Mr. Reliable. He’d say, “Let’s work this out logically,” but would never make you feel like a fool if you didn’t. He was never condescending. My friends loved my dad. They’d call him “Lou.” When I turned sweet sixteen, my friends wanted to surprise me. They all went to my house and made a party, and my father worked right along with them. He got involved. He baked the cookies. He knew how to relate to young people. It was laughable just how humble he was. You know, one of the things I really liked about my friends was that no one ever made fun of my father’s limp. I never heard anyone ever do that. My father wasn’t the kind of man that anyone would make fun of in any way. People were considerate of him and understanding. JA: Did he ever talk about his own art? FINE: I wasn’t mature enough to draw that out in him. I was intrigued by what he did. I loved his pencils and his erasers. I loved his drafting table. I loved being the daughter of an artist. I was given a natural talent but didn’t develop it. There was a place called “The Starving Artist.” We used to go there and have chili and coffee. There was a song my dad loved. First of all, my dad loved Ringo Starr... he was his favorite Beatle. I loved Paul because he was such a babe. The Beatles used to take in potential gifted musicians and make them into recording artists. There was a lady named Mary Hopkins and she sang “Those Were The Days.” My dad loved that song!

Lou Fine may have liked painting “natives with spears”—but he was called on to draw Native Americans with guns in this page from Crack #17, repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Dennis Beaulieu. [©2002 DC Comics.]

study the Bible a lot. I was not doing well in school. I had trouble with French. When I went to public school in the tenth grade, and moved in with my father and brother, I was failing Algebra. I started well but it didn’t last. When it came time for my finals, my dad sat with me the whole night and I got a hundred on my test. He gave me his blood, sweat, and tears, but he knew I wasn’t determined. He was a willing participant in my studies, even though he faced deadlines on his own work. If I wasn’t up in time for school, he’d wake me up. He was really into me getting an education. I never did get to Sarah Lawrence, but I did go to the New York Institute of Technology, which was a new school at the time. I majored in art. On Saturdays I’d go to Greenwich Village to the School of Social Research for art, and my father paid for that, too. He encouraged me all the time. I was into sports, too. If it was my will, it was his. He was going to provide me with the best education he could. My dad wanted me to learn how to work with wisdom.

Another thing I remember is that he wore flannel shirts all the time. He also wore canvas shoes. He never really dressed up. JA: He was bohemian. [laughs] FINE: Oh, yes. I used wear his shirts without asking him. I was so hip and so cool! JA: Did your girlfriends know he was an artist? I was wondering if people ever asked him for drawings. FINE: They knew he was an artist but didn’t realize he was famous. Neither did I, until a few years ago. Nobody ever asked him to do drawings for them.

...And A Fine Family

JA: I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Jack Kirby, but he was one of the most famous comic book artists who ever lived. When Jack and your father worked for Eisner & Iger in the 1930s, they used to discuss figure drawing. Jack told me that your father greatly influenced him and you can see that in Kirby’s early work. FINE: I didn’t know that, and it’s nice to learn it. I do know who Jack Kirby was. I know who Will Eisner is, but I don’t think I ever met him. I do know my father was good friends with Gill Fox. You know, I don’t think anyone could go up to my father and hurt him. I know I couldn’t. Whenever I hurt him, I just felt terrible. I don’t remember ever being able to fight with my dad; I don’t think anyone could. There was something about him, I don’t know what it was, that made everybody like him. And he worked so hard! JA: I know he took up painting again in his later years. What do you remember about that? FINE: I’m not sure where he got his inspiration, but he did some great paintings. He liked to paint natives... JA: Like Native Americans? FINE: That, and he liked to paint African natives with spears and a ring through their noses. He painted zebras, too. I used to stand there and watch him work, but I didn’t actually work by his side. JA: He was very dedicated to his craft. Did he do a lot of reading about other artists? FINE: Yes. I remember, when I was younger, that he had books about Leonardo Da Vinci and other artists. He must have studied them at one time, but in his later years it was more of a livelihood than a passion. I think he had lost a lot of the freshness of life. He became sad. Maybe it was because Mary had died, but I can’t say for sure. JA: What kind of music did your father like? FINE: When we were driving in the car, I’d pick oldies station and he’d go along with that. He liked show tunes like Oklahoma! We had LPs in the house but he didn’t listen to them like I did. He mainly listened to talk shows but I know he liked Amos and Andy, and Lionel Barrymore’s radio show [Mayor of the Town]. He wasn’t much of a television viewer. He discouraged me from watching too much television, though once in a while he’d kick back and watch a show. He liked to read, especially the Agatha Christie mysteries. He did a lot of reading. He encouraged me to read and wanted me to develop my brain. Once a year, he’d go to Washington, D.C. to a comics convention [probably the National Cartoonists Society gatherings. —Jim] and people like Walt Kelly [creator of the newspaper strip Pogo] would be there, too. My father wasn’t really that much for parties. He was a very quiet person. JA: Was being a quiet type of person make it harder to get to really know him? FINE: If you were the kind of person who was coming from the right place, he’d open his mind to you. If he felt there was something wrong with someone, he kept himself out of the line of fire. He was very open, otherwise. He was like a hillbilly in a way: he was so laid back. He wasn’t pretentious at all. He was the “Hillbilly of the Elite,” like a back street boy, wearing those flannel shirts. JA: Was he a joke-teller? FINE: Oh, yes. He was a storyteller. He took the moral of a story and just ran with it. He taught me this song when I was young:

A billy goat was doing fine, It ate the shirts right off the line, A farmer came along and said, “Oh my! That doggone goat has got to die!” He took that goat and runneth forth, He fixed himself and tracked down North, But that billy goat wouldn’t die in vain, It coughed up the shirts and flagged the train. JA: You were nineteen when your father passed away. Do you want to talk about that? FINE: Not really. You know, it was by the Grace of God I got through it. If I’d looked down, I’d have drowned. My faith got me through it. I knew he had health problems but I really wasn’t aware of how it affected him. He had high cholesterol and was on a restricted diet. He couldn’t eat many eggs, for instance. I’d say, “Dad, I don’t know what I’m going to do when you die.” And he’d say, “Oh, don’t worry. I’ll have another twenty years.” And I just believed him. I knew he was going to die the day he did. It was just a feeling I had in my heart. I spoke to him that morning and he sounded sad. He asked when I was coming home, because I was traveling around (I was in Virginia at this time). I told him I didn’t know, and that day my heart broke. I knew something was wrong. I called him that night to tell him I was coming home, but he’d died earlier that day. JA: Do you have a favorite memory of him? FINE: When I was a teenager and would be lying on the couch, watching TV, he’d come in the door from behind the couch and say, “Hi, dollface.” He’d put his hand on my head and pat my face. He’d ask, “How are you?” He was very affectionate and sweet. He had no problem telling me that he loved me. Dad was a very loving man... he was great!

Pearl Cherry

Part III: PEARL CHERRY [INTRODUCTION #3: Pearl Cherry’s sister Mary was married to Lou Fine. An artist in her own right, Mrs. Cherry still creates visions on canvas for art lovers. Here, she paints a verbal portrait of an unforgettable man who made dreams come true for comics fans. I believe Lou Fine would have been proud of the fact that memories of him remain vibrant in the hearts of those who knew him. Thanks to Elliot Fine for arranging this interview... and a special thanks to Mrs. Cherry for her time and for one of the nicest compliments I’ve ever received. —Jim.] PEARL CHERRY: I really can’t tell you much about Lou’s professional career. I met him when I was about twelve, and I lived with Lou and my sister Mary, who was several years older than I was. I can tell you I never met a more beautiful person in my entire life than Lou. My mother had died and my brothers were in military service during World War II. Lou and Mary took my father and me in. They made such a wonderful home for us. Lou was such an aesthetic person; he collected paintings and old furniture. He had studied the Bauhaus School of Art. Mary let him take the lead because she knew he was so knowledgeable about things. She thought that whatever he bought was the best. Lou created a beautiful home and was the warmest, kindest, sweetest, most loyal man you’d want to know. He was generous, too.

Lou was also a ladies’ man, but not in a sexual way. He made friends with women and talked to them about the books he was reading. He was almost a feminist. He wasn’t overly political. My sister and I were very close, but if you ask me who’s the person I miss the most in my life, it has to be Lou Fine. He was an incredible person. To know him was to love him. Mary was something, too. She was very strict; she didn’t allow any interference because Lou had deadlines and deadlines and deadlines. Everyone wanted to hang out with him. Their home was very gregarious; people would come over and have political discussions. Many of them were writers and artists, but at a certain time, they all had to leave. The door would be opened and Mary would chase them all out so Lou could meet his deadlines. She was terrific. They were the happiest couple I’d ever known. JIM AMASH: Did you ever meet Gill Fox? Gill told me that Lou used to always talk very warmly about you. CHERRY: I grew up hearing the name Gill Fox. He and his wife lived in Stamford,Connecticut; we lived there, too. I know he and Lou had a very good relationship. Lou also had a good friend named Myron Cohen, whom he spent a lot of time with in the days before he married my sister. In those days there was a lot of correspondence between people. Mary would always sign her letters “Mary Lou.” “When [Lou Fine] got mad, he got mad!” And so, apparently, did The Ray, in this page from Crack Comics #20 (March 1941), repro’d from Alan Light’s 1970s Special Edition Series #2. [©2002 DC Comics.]

My father adored and worshiped Lou Fine. By the way, Elliot is

...And A Fine Family

almost like Lou. I tell him he’s “Lou-esque.” Elliot is very aesthetic, too, and a good photographer. I’m a painter now, and Lou was my first teacher. In the days before television, Lou would sit at the dining room table and watch me draw. He’d correct what I did; he was the most nourishing person that I’ve ever known. JA: Do you know how your sister met Lou Fine? CHERRY: Not really. They got married right before World War II started. [NOTE: As noted in the interview with Elliot, they were married in June 1941. —Jim.] Unfortunately, I’ve moved so many times that many of my photo albums have disappeared. I don’t know how that happened. I cherished them but they disappeared. JA: How long did you live with the Fines? CHERRY: Five years. I moved in when I was fifteen and got married when I was twenty. That’s when I moved out. My father was a sick man who suffered from cancer. He was in recovery but he was weak. But that was Lou and Mary; they were open-hearted and took care of us. Lou was intellectual, artistic, and loved beautiful things. Lou and Mary were cautious; they never did anything extravagantly. Every piece of furniture and belongings was purchased after studying about it for a year. They had magazines and books. Lou was the type of person who did everything cautiously and purposefully. JA: That amplifies another part of his personality for me. I’ve heard he was very slow to anger. CHERRY: Yes, but when he got mad, he got mad! And then, he was unforgiving. If he got mad, he always had a reason. His anger was never turned on anyone who was close to me. He was extremely loyal. If he loved you, your enemy would be his enemy. How did you become familiar with Lou, Jim? JA: When I was a teenager, DC Comics reprinted a couple of Lou Fine stories and I was immediately taken with his work. That grew into love when I got my hands on Jim Steranko’s History of Comics.

Jim Amash suspects an assistant—possibly Alex Kotzky—worked with Fine on this “Ray” story from

Smash #19. See a near-future issue of Alter Ego for a previously-unpublished interview with Kotzky, who CHERRY: Lou would get work from other famous also drew “Plastic Man” and went on to create the Apartment 3-G newspaper strip. [©2002 DC Comics.] artists, such as Al Capp. When Capp took a vacation, Lou did some work for him under Capp’s name. I think into the service, he shared a studio with Fine. —Jim.] he did some work for other people, but I can’t remember who they were. It was just extra work that he’d take on. Lou would work the JA: What kind of things did Lou read? night through to meet those deadlines. After he finished, he’d have someone take the work to wherever it had to go. That’s why he needed CHERRY: Everything. Novels of the day and magazines. That’s one someone like Mary, because she’d chase everyone away. Lou loved being reason why he was able to communicate with his women friends. with people and people adored being around him. He could talk about Everyone adored Lou... women especially. any subject. [slight pause] Lou contracted polio when he was a child, and that prevented him My husband wants me to remind you that I was the Colgate girl in from playing athletic games of the day. So he was into more intellectual Lou’s ads. Lou did that for many years and I was his model. Lou’d take pursuits. He loved listening to radio talk shows while he was working. photographs of me, and I had a big smile with great teeth in those days. He liked that much more than music. Did Gill Fox tell you any of this? [laughs] My husband says Gill Fox shared a studio with Lou, too. There JA: Yes, he did. Outside of his late wife, I don’t think Gill misses was a time when Lou had a studio on 42nd Street in Tudor City. There anyone more than he misses Lou Fine. Did women consider Lou to be was a slaughterhouse nearby, and in the summertime Lou’d complain good-looking? about the odors. [NOTE: Actually, Gill Fox went there to work, but was not actually a part of Lou Fine’s studio. Before Alex Kotzky went

Pearl Cherry JA: Did Lou and Mary take a lot of vacations together? CHERRY: They were inseparable. They’d go everywhere together. They were married for fifteen years; Mary died at age 36. I recently found a photo of Lou and Mary walking and holding hands. Mary used to try a little embroidery or writing or whatever while she sat in Lou’s studio. They were always together in the same room. They were a beautiful couple.

Fine did some excellent early work on covers for Fox comics, such as these of The Green Mask and Blue Beetle for Mystery Men #3 and #8 (Oct. 1939 and March 1940, respectively). If only more of the art inside had been up to these standards! [©2002 the respective copyright holder; Blue Beetle is TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

CHERRY: Well, he was short and had had polio, so he walked with a decided limp. But he had a gorgeous face, I think: wonderful eyes and features; chiseled mouth and nose. I think he was very handsome. He was individual-looking. He was beautiful inside and out. I wouldn’t say that about anyone I know. [laughs] If he’d been Catholic, he’d have been a priest. Lou’s feelings were so strong and the kindness was there. He didn’t have the greatest upbringing. Lou was brought up during the Depression and studied engineering. One of the things that discouraged me from being a painter—I didn’t become one until after Lou died—was that Lou was so good. He showed me work that he did when he was my age, 13, 14 years old, and it was such beautiful work. My work looked so amateurish compared to his. I once told Elliot that his father discouraged me from painting at an early age, and Elliot said, “Why was that? Because Dad was the most encouraging person.” I told him that it was because his father was so good. Elliot said, “Yes. The same with me.” But Elliot became such a good photographer. Lou’s work was so good that it discouraged you. He didn’t mean to cause that reaction, though.

JA: Was that the only problem Lou had with his father?

CHERRY: I think his father was unloving. I don’t know very much about it, but I don’t think there was too much love. I think Lou’s mother died when he was quite young. His father was a house painter and he might have had other talents, but he had to make a dollar. I guess he thought painting and doing other kinds of art was frivolous. Lou had such a terrible childhood but was so unaffected by that. If he had a bad side, it was only because someone was being cruel to someone he loved. In all the time I lived with Lou, I never saw his father come to the house. If Lou saw his father, he visited him on his own. Lou’s father was very much opposed to his marrying Mary. My sister had a bad heart, and his father thought Lou would be saddled with a woman who’d always be ill. Actually, Lou was never saddled with her; she died very suddenly. Lou’s father was very worried. He was that kind of father, let’s put it that way. He was looking out for Lou in a cold, efficient way. JA: Lou had a brother and a sister, right? CHERRY: Yes. I didn’t know them, either. I don’t think any of them loved my sister. As I said, if you didn’t love Mary, then Lou didn’t love you.

JA: But Lou gave you art lessons. CHERRY: Yes, he did. And Myron Cohen was there. Everyone gravitated to Lou. He was like the sun... so cozy and warm. He loved animals and had a dog. He wasn’t the life of the party. He was just wonderful to be near. I think he was more of a “one-on-one” person, but he loved being surrounded by people. Mary was the one who made the holiday plans and decorated the house.

I had started to tell you about Lou’s childhood. His father was a Russian Jew who was very strict and strong. He was furious at Lou for not finishing engineering school. He thought he was throwing away his career to become an artist. He was very harsh with Lou. This I know. Lou loved my father, and my father, with three sons of his own, loved Lou the best. Lou finally found a father when we lived with him.

JA: So he didn’t have much contact with his family? CHERRY: If he did, he saw them privately.

JA: That’s a real shame. Did you have any siblings besides Mary? CHERRY: I had three brothers but they

...And A Fine Family

are all gone. They died early, but not as early as Mary did. That was the most painful time of my life.

wonderful that he didn’t want to discuss it. I never heard him talk about his suffering from polio, either.

JA: Was there no expectation that she was going to die?

After I married, we all lived in the same little village... about a mile apart. I could walk over to Lou and Mary’s with my baby carriage. We were very close.

CHERRY: Mary had a bad heart. She’d have an attack and then she’d recover. She really wanted another child after Elliot. But each time she got pregnant, she had a miscarriage and it would weaken her. They adopted a girl, Laurie.

JA: You were so young when you first came to live with them. Did Lou treat you like a kid sister?

I have to tell you something else. Lou made the most beautiful bird’s-eye table. Elliot has it in his loft now. Elliot is very much like his father; he buys things cautiously but that table is a treasure. Recently, Elliot’s country house was photographed for an Italian magazine. In the kitchen, on one of the chairs, was a shirt that Lou wore continually. If he didn’t wear that shirt, he wore a replica of it. When a shirt wore out, Lou’d buy another one just like it. It’d be red and black plaid, or red and brown plaid. Over and over, he’d wear that same shirt. In the magazine is that shirt. I In Jim Amash’s piece on the influence of Lou Fine, he mentions how the hair in the artist’s early work said to Elliot, “There’s seems to “come alive.” Note panel 4 in particular. In panel 6, even such inanimate objects as the your dad’s shirt. It must be fireplace and painting seem sentient, in motion. Courtesy of Dennis Beaulieu. [©2002 DC Comics.] 50 to 55 years old.” He said, “Exactly.” I think I JA: So Lou was into woodwork? wore it in when I went to visit them in the country. But that was Lou. When he liked something, he’d latch on to it and keep it forever. He also wore the same style shoes: a canvas-topped, gum-soled shoe. It was very hard to buy things for him because he liked the same things over and over again. He’d wear knit ties with a checked shirt. JA: So he was a real creature of habit. CHERRY: Oh, yeah. My father was European and he loved his dark bread with farmer’s cheese. So Lou got into that and ate that every morning. My father also taught him how to make pancakes with blueberries, and Lou’d eat them, too. As I said, my father was the father that Lou never had. He was a very kind, nourishing person, too. JA: I take it that Lou didn’t talk about his childhood much, did he? CHERRY: No, he always talked about other things. His father wasn’t so

CHERRY: Oh yes. He was wonderful and kind. He was thrilled to be married to my sister. He appreciated everything she ever did, even when she kicked out all his friends. He didn’t get mad. She didn’t push him, career-wise. Lou didn’t have to be pushed. Mary’d say, “Okay. Lou has to get to work, so you have to say good night.” They didn’t want to leave because they loved being around Lou. She’d have friends over and have coldcuts and packaged cake. They were not extravagant people. They would think out and plan everything they did or owned. Lou made bookcases and that wonderful table I mentioned.

CHERRY: Not much. But when he needed a bookcase, he’d make it. JA: Was he into cars? CHERRY: Moderately. Of course, during the war, you couldn’t get a new car. Maybe every five years, he’d buy a new car. He wasn’t flashy. He was a conservative man with moderate tastes. He did study architecture and art. I don’t know much about his career. I was the kid sister and they never really discussed his work with me. JA: You think he suffered much pain because of the bad leg? CHERRY: I don’t think so. He’d complain about his shoulder because he had bursitis. Maybe that’s why he wore those gum-soled shoes— because they were light. JA: Do you want to talk about what happened with Lou when your sister died?

32 CHERRY: No, because it was a very hard time. What happened was that Lou married a very lovely woman, who was reminiscent of my sister. I’m sure Lou felt the same way. Unfortunately, she had two daughters, one younger and one older than Laurie. And it was war. Lou tried to be a father to those children, but it didn’t work out. They divorced but stayed intimate and close. Laurie went off to boarding school and didn’t know what to do. She can tell you more about it. Sometime after Mary died, Lou had a heart attack. Maybe it was his second or third heart attack that finally killed him. JA: Lou was living by himself when he died, wasn’t he? CHERRY: Yes, but he was still seeing his former wife. I’m sure he was supporting her. He was that type of man. JA: I wish I’d met him.

Pearl Cherry They were conservative and cautious in their lifestyle. Possibly they thought Lou wouldn’t be able to work forever. Lou had a retirement fund and watched his money. But if anyone needed money or was in trouble, Lou was there. When I bought my little house, and they were very happy to have me live so close, they gave me the money for the down payment. They were cautious with themselves but so generous with others. JA: Probably it was because they’d been through the Depression and knew the value of a dollar. Maybe they didn’t need that much for themselves? CHERRY: They had everything they wanted. They had excellent taste but never for show. JA: Did Lou display his own art in the house?

CHERRY: Not really. CHERRY: He really Here and there, maybe. took to people. Lou I don’t know what moved to East happened to it, but Rockaway; artists and there was a painting of agents lived there. He a Chinese junk. I have a lived in a very modern zebra painting he did, Another fun page from the “Hack O’Hara” story whose splash was depicted earlier, repro’d from house that was built by an and Elliot has a few b-&-w photocopies courtesy of Ron Frantz and Bart Bush. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.] architect named Vallin. things. Lou did some One of the agents who pictures of Laurie, and she was very talented as a child. She was creative. lived there was [artist] Willem DeKooning’s agent. I always said it was I think she made her own Indian costume. She could sing and play the unfortunate that Lou died, because he could have gone right into Pop guitar. Art. He’d have made a fortune. But Lou did very well. JA: How did you get into painting? During World War II, if you made $50-60 a week, you were doing very well. Lou was making over $200 a week. [laughs] Before the war he CHERRY: I always painted here and there through the years. I did some was making about $40 a week. While he was engaged to my sister, his studying. Twenty years ago, I really decided to get into it. My daughter salary went up to $200 a week. I thought my sister was marrying a happened to know someone who had a furniture design shop. Suddenly, millionaire! With that raise, Lou came to visit my sister with about all the designers in the neighborhood liked me. I’ve had exhibits of my twelve packages. In each package was a unique gift for my sister. Lou work, which I sell, even though it’s come late in my life. I’d be thrilled loved giving presents. Whitman candies were their candies of choice. In to pieces if Lou could be here to see it. But I’m not a craftsman like Lou one of the pictures I sent to Elliot, you’ll see in the background, on a was. shelf, a box of Whitman chocolates. JA: Since Lou worked all the time, did he have much time to relax? JA: What were holidays like around the house? CHERRY: They took vacations, but not that often. They didn’t seem to need that much. They were so happy with each other. They’d just take a CHERRY: After the war, my brothers were all married... everyone walk. They had an open house and people’d drop by all the time. Of married quickly after the war. Mary was the one who had everyone over, course, later, she’d kick them out so Lou’d make his deadlines. Mary for Jewish holidays and American holidays. We celebrated Christmas didn’t want Lou to work all night. He was always working. and it was a giving time.

...And A Fine Family JA: That sounds like me. CHERRY: Well, you know, you sound a lot like Lou on the phone. JA: I do? That’s a very nice thing for you to say. That’s very special to me. CHERRY: I mean it. Just listening to you... you ask questions the way Lou did. You laugh like him, too. Lou was a listener. He’d get so much out of you. He really did. Don’t forget to send me three copies of the magazine when this is published. I have three kids who loved Lou, too. And Lou loved my kids.

The sentiments of the final panel of the preserved “Hack O’Hara” story seems to echo what just about everybody felt about Lou Fine! Courtesy of Ron Frantz and Bart Bush. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

Here’s one more story. There was the worst snowstorm in Long Island and I lived a mile away from Lou and Mary. We couldn’t drive, there was no electricity, and my husband was on the road. Lou came to visit because he was worried. I was making a stew over the fireplace, and he was so delighted that I was mature enough to survive this blizzard. Lou came out in this terrible, terrible weather to make sure I was okay. That was Lou Fine!

Pearl Cherry with one of her paintings—alas, repro’d only in black-&-white from a slide. With special thanks to her daughter Caron Cherry Dubrow. Mrs. Cherry’s works have been said to "combine the fluid color of South Florida with the strong influence of the artist’s background in New York," and have appeared on the covers and in various issues of South Florida Home and Garden and Aventura magazines. [©2002 Pearl Cherry.]

Monthly! Edited and published by Robin Snyder

Write to: Robin Snyder, 2284 Yew St. Rd. #B6, Bellingham, WA 98226-8899

Murphy Anderson

Lou Fine and Fiction House A Conversation with MURPHY ANDERSON Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

I. “He Was Just Head and Shoulders above Everyone Else”

[INTRODUCTION: Murphy Anderson’s comic book career stands as a testimony to great comic art. He is also one of the classiest gentlemen I’ve ever met. In discussing Lou Fine and his influence on Murphy, I discovered that the subject intertwines with Murphy’s beginnings at Fiction House. Murphy graciously agreed to expand the interview so that we could present a fuller picture of what Lou Fine meant to him... and to some others, as you are about to see. Murphy... thank you for the insight. —Jim.]

JIM AMASH: Do you remember the first time you saw Lou Fine’s work? MURPHY ANDERSON: Well, he didn’t sign his work, for the most part. Eventually, I figured out a name for him and I came pretty close. He was “Kenneth Lewis,” who was signing “The Black Condor”—and when I got it all figured out, he was Louis Kenneth Fine. Fiction House, Fox, and those companies had Will Eisner working there. Will had several pen names for himself, like Willis B. Rensie. Jack Kirby didn’t sign his work for Will, either; he was Jack Cortez, among other names. The use of pen names was a common practice. Lou was doing covers and interiors when I was started seeing his work. He was also illustrating interior text pages. All this came from the Eisner & Iger shop. Jack Kirby, Lou Fine, Chuck Mazoujian, Dan Zolnerowich, and Bob Powell worked there. It must have been quite a place to be.

Murphy Anderson (seen above in a recent photo, courtesy of the artist), flanked by (somewhat fuzzy) splash pages of origins of “The Black Condor”— from that initial appearance, drawn by Lou Fine, in Crack Comics #1 (May 1940), and from Murph’s re-telling of same in DC’s Secret Origins #21 (Dec. 1987). The late Dan Zolnerowich assisted Mr. A. on the Fine-style backgrounds. [Art ©2002 DC Comics.]

Lou Fine and Fiction House

35 had breakfast and sat around for a few hours, talking. As far as I know, it was the only interview Dan ever granted. He was influenced by Will Eisner and worked in his shop when Lou Fine was there. He was one of the artists that took over Blackhawk. He drew it almost until Dick Dillin took over the feature. He worked for Hillman and did “Airboy.”

Ruben Moreira.

JA: What was it about Lou Fine’s work that attracted you?

JA: The main reason I do these interviews is so we’ll have more information on people like Dan, who never got much attention from the comics press.

ANDERSON: He was just head and shoulders above ANDERSON: And it’s everyone else. I even liked his nice to know about stuff in many, many ways, these people. They were even better than Hal Foster real people. The guy and Alex Raymond. Fine had who followed Dan on a flair to his work. Gil Kane the Fiction House called him the most lyrical covers was Joe Doolin. artist around. “Lyrical” is a He’s another guy no good word to describe his one really knows about. work. Fine had a light touch He was an old pulp to his work, nothing heavy. artist who came to When he had to do heavy Fiction House, Along with his work on such features as the long-running “Impossible but True!” drama, it wasn’t as believable primarily to work on series in Detective Comics, in 1946-47 Ruben Moreira spelled artist Burne Hogarth on as Will Eisner’s. When one of the pulps. He came the Tarzan Sunday strip, under the name “Rubimor.” At one time Moreira also drew the Will’s characters hit from Chicago. He did a “Kaanga” jungle-hero series for Fiction House. This photo and art are reproduced from somebody, he was knocked lot of covers and the excellent “Volume 15B” of Flying Buttress’ multi-volume series reprinting all the Tarzan flat. Same with Jack Kirby: work of Hogarth and Harold R. Foster. [©2002 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.] interiors for Weird you had to pick up the pieces Tales, among other of Jack’s characters when they landed. [laughs] pulps. Quite a few guys came from other fields and went into comics. Some didn’t stay and some never got out. Lou’s stuff had impact, but it was different. It was luscious and beautiful to look at. He did it with such detail and didn’t gloss over Like Ruben Moriera. I didn’t get to know him very well, but he was anything. Unfortunately, he wasn’t inking everything he penciled, good friends with Al Plastino. I remarked to Al once, “You know, you though I didn’t understand that at first. Later on, of course, I did. I remind me of a guy I met when I first got into the business.” Al said, could see that the buildings and trees and things were rendered more or “Who’s that?” I said, “Ruben Moriera.” He laughed and said, “Ruby and less in his style, but they weren’t quite the same as the main work. I’m I shared a studio.” I could see why they got along well, because they had sure Lou penciled them, but he had others assisting in the inks. a similar outlook and were both snappy dressers. They were fun guys to be around: always joking and laughing. I penciled the “Black Condor” story for DC’s Secret Origins comic [#21, Dec. 1987], written by Roy Thomas. Dan Zolnerowich was still working with me, and he inked the backgrounds for me. Dan even penciled some of backgrounds, and we more or less copied what Lou JA: You started working in comics in 1944 at Fiction House. How did Fine had done in his version. I wanted it to be as close to Lou’s work as you get that job? possible. Then, when Dan inked them, I got to looking at them and I’d swear to this day that Dan did the backgrounds on Lou’s original stuff. ANDERSON: I started school in the fall of 1943 at the University of Dan was a terrific artist and did many features after Eisner stopped North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In those days, the school was on the doing them, like Uncle Sam and “Black X.” Dan also worked with Will quarter system, but they had accelerated courses, so I had achieved on P.S. magazine for many years. credits for three quarters of work instead of two. I had been co-editor of High Life at Greensboro Senior High School and had visited New York. JA: There hasn’t been much written about Zolnerowich. Our school paper had won some awards from the Columbia Scholastic ANDERSON: You know Steve Duinn? He did that book Comics Press Association, and we were invited to a convention at Columbia between the Panels, and I set up an interview with him and Dan. We University. As editors, two of the paper’s staff went to receive awards

II. “Have You Talked to Anyone at Fiction House?”

Murphy Anderson he had a shop with Will Eisner. I just knew he had a lot of work in Fiction House’s comics and I felt that he was Fiction House. He looked at my stuff and said, “I don’t have anything right now, but if you come back in a week or two, it might be different.” I guess he sensed that I was getting desperate and wasn’t going to show any interest until I was really hungry. I said, “Okay, but I don’t think I’ll be around. If I am, I’ll come back.” I called on Timely and they gave me some pages to pencil as samples, but I never got that done. My money was fast running out; it was costing about eight or nine bucks to stay at a hotel on Times Square. I had about another week before my money ran out. On the Friday morning of that week, I was grasping for straws and remembered Harry Chesler. I looked and saw he had a place on 23rd Street. I went down and talked to Chesler and he liked my work. He said, “You have a knack for science-fiction. I’m not publishing now... otherwise I’d be interested in taking you on. Have you talked to anyone at Fiction House? They have a sciencefiction magazine.” I said, “Well, Mr. Iger told me to come back in a couple of weeks.” Chesler said, “Iger? He’s not Fiction House.” He said, “Wait a minute...” He knew what had happened. He picked up the phone and called editor Jack Byrne and gave me a big build-up. He told me that Byrne wanted to meet me and asked how fast could I get up there. I said, “As fast as my feet can get me there.” [laughs] I went up there, Jack Byrne looked at my stuff and said, “You’re hired.” We talked about my magnificent salary of $30 a week. “Come in Monday morning.” It was a terrible weekend [laughs], but I came in Monday morning and they gave me a “Star Pirate” script. JA: Was the work in your portfolio Lou Fine-influenced?

This Paul Gustavson-drawn page of "The Jester," a feature which ran in Smash Comics from 1941-49, was given to Murphy by Quality publisher Busy Arnold in 1941 when he returned his samples. As a general rule, Arnold had all original art destroyed! Courtesy of Murphy Anderson. [©2002 DC Comics.]

the paper had won for the school year... and participate in the convention. I took the opportunity to make some rounds, and that’s when I met Lou Fine and Jack Cole at Quality. This was in early 1943. In the summer of 1942 I had corresponded with publisher Busy Arnold and he encouraged me by sending me a Paul Gustavson original, which I still have. On the strength of that, I went to see Quality but got nowhere. They were very nice to me there. Fine and Cole had their own cubicles there. I don’t know if they worked there every day, but they were very important to Arnold. In early 1944 I talked to my father about dropping out of Carolina and looking for a job in New York. He thought the idea of working in comics was a terrible one, but he finally gave in. He gave me a hundred bucks, which was a lot of money then. He said, “When that runs out, you have to come back home.” So I was off to the big city by late March of 1944. Well, I walked the streets for a week, calling upon everyone I could think of. One of the people I visited was Jerry Iger. I hadn’t realized that

ANDERSON: Oh yeah. I’d written my own “Ray” story and almost had it completed. There were a couple of panels I hadn’t inked. I didn’t quite have enough time to get it done, but it was good enough to put in there. I also had some of my high school work and a couple of characters I had thought up in there.

That very first week at Fiction House, I met all the pulp editors and staffers. Wilbur Peacock, who was the pulp editor of Planet [Stories], gave me some illustrations to do, in addition to my comic book work. I don’t want you to get the wrong impression here. This was wartime and everybody was gone, except for people like George Tuska, who couldn’t hear. Artie Saaf, Lee Elias, and Ruben Moriera worked there. They were the big talents I met in those days. They didn’t work on staff, but would come in and we’d chat some. Six 75th Avenue was our location, which was where DC’s offices were for quite a while. I used to sit on the corner office of 53rd and Fifth, just a desk or two away from the window. I could see parades and things like that marching down the street from there. Directly opposite from us (we were on the fourth floor) was St. Thomas’ Cathedral, which is still there. There was a city street between us and them. The church bells would ring and we could really hear them. They’d knock you right out of your seat. [laughs]

Now years later, when I was working on P.S. magazine, I’d occasionally visit DC’s offices. One day, I was sitting in an office with

Lou Fine and Fiction House

Dick Giordano and the bells started up. I looked up and saw that Dick was sitting higher up in space than I was. Those same darn bells!

III. “Fiction House Was Doing the Books ’Marvel Style’” JA: So Iger wasn’t supplying Fiction House with all their art. That’s why they needed people on staff. ANDERSON: That’s right. Iger did a lot of Wings, except for “Captain Wings.” I really shouldn’t say that, because Al Walker was doing “Greasemonkey Griffin,” and Fran Hopper was doing a feature, too. So Iger was doing some of the features in Wings, a lot of stuff in Fight, and a big part of Jungle Comics. Independently of Iger, Ruben Moriera was doing “Ka’anga,” and Artie Saaf and Bob Lubbers were doing features, too. Lee Elias was doing “Captain Wings”; I don’t think Iger ever got his hands on that feature. I’m not sure they wrote the stuff, though, because Fiction House had several writers on staff. Get this: Fiction House was doing the books “Marvel style.” They’d give us a plot, and we’d break the story down into whatever number of pages a feature was, and we’d draw in what was going on in that page. No captions, no word balloons, just a description of what was going on. And then, two or three people, all ladies, except for Claude Lapham, who ran the production department, took the pages from there. Malcolm Reiss was a literary agent and a pulp man for Fiction House, although Jack Byrne and he both worked on buying the pulps... stories and art.

(Above:) Dan Zolnerowich drew this exciting splash for Jungle Comics #23 (Nov. 1941). Collector Paul Handler, who provided us with photocopies of the original art, has sent us loads more of Fiction House and Iger studio art, which will be seen a few issues from now in a special feature on The Iger Comics Kingdom! [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

Murphy tells us this pair of never-published drawings are from his portfolio “circa 1946”—so we’re not sure if they’re two of the samples he used to land a job at Fiction House or not—but we’re forever in his debt for sending us copies. Thanks, Murph! We can see why you got the job! [©2002 Murphy Anderson.]

Murphy Anderson

Jack was pretty much in direct charge of the comics, although Malcolm Reiss gave opinions. They were both working for Thurman Scott, who owned Fiction House. Eisner & Iger were packaging work for Fiction House, and when Eisner left Iger in order to do The Spirit, that left Fiction House depending on Iger. But Scott didn’t want to solely depend on outside sources. Iger was doing roughly 40 to 50% of the work on the comics. The rest was done by the staff and freelancers. When I started there, my desk was next to George Tuska’s, who left his staff job there to freelance. JA: Who did that leave in the offices? ANDERSON: Joe Doolin was on staff. There was a staff writer named John Mitchell. And there were several young ladies who were all very quite good. Cat Yronwode and Trina Robbins talk about them in the book Women And The Comics. I talked to them for that book. JA: I take it the women were hired because of the manpower shortage during World War II. ANDERSON: That was a big reason for it, although they were talented enough to hold their own. They had women doing production work. There was an older woman named Jean Lavender—Jeannie Press, I believe her name was—and Ruth MacCauley, who did most of the lettering. Ruth Atkinson drew stories and was a kind of story consultant, too. I could tell you more, but you really want to talk about Lou Fine. JA: That’s okay, because I really do want to hear all this. And there’s a connection, because Lou Fine’s influence on you helped shape you into the kind of artist that Fiction House would hire. The background you’re giving me helps explain a lot to me.

were a co-writer on those other features, too. ANDERSON: They didn’t give me credit originally, but I believe they did later when some of these stories were reprinted. JA: Did you get extra money for co-plotting? ANDERSON: No.

IV. Fine and Eisner JA: I’d like to get back to the portfolio you showed Jack Byrne. Was the fact that your work was Lou Fine-influenced help you get hired? ANDERSON: I think so. And the fact that I was influenced by Will Eisner’s Spirit. I had a collection of The Spirit bound into a book. I think I had two or three bound volumes of The Spirit from The Philadelphia Record [newspaper]. I missed the first one or two Spirit Sundays because I hadn’t discovered them yet. JA: What was it like to meet Lou Fine? ANDERSON: Oh, I was just flabbergasted, you know, and was probably like a real fanboy. He looked at my work and saw the “Ray” story I did. He picked out a couple of things, and in one panel I’d copied as directly from him as I could. He looked at it and said, “This is pretty interesting.” [mutual laughter] He was a very kind man, and everyone was copying from him. What I didn’t know until much later was that most of the covers he did were laid out and designed by Will Eisner. This isn’t meant to put Lou down in any way, but Will was the boss and he had a very definite vision. It was easier for Will to draw a thumbnail sketch than to explain what he wanted.

Now, I notice that in Jerry Bails’ bio of you, you’re only given credit for writing “Life on Other Worlds.”

I worked with Will for two years on P.S. magazine, and he worked the same way there. He would give us ideas and let us write our own gags, and he’d go over them and correct them or say “We can’t use them.” A lot of stuff he’d let go through, and it was entertaining for people down at P.S. to try to pick out who wrote what, you know.

ANDERSON: Well, that’s really all I wrote for Fiction House. I didn’t write any of the others, and I didn’t exactly write this feature. I drew what I wanted to draw and filled up three pages or whatever. I indicated what kind of copy I felt belonged. The other features I did were more “Marvel style” because I did all the creative thinking on them but not the dialogue. I drew the stories and tied up the pages, storywise, together. They were usually short features. JA: It seems to me that you

Murphy owns the original art to this page of the Lou Fine-drawn adaptation of “The Count of Monte Cristo” that appeared in late-’30s issues of Fiction House’s Jumbo Comics. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

JA: I remember years ago, at one of our comic conventions, a fan asked you to autograph a “Star Pirate” story you had drawn. It was very Lou Fine-influenced, not just in your ink line, but in the attitude of the figures.

Lou Fine and Fiction House ANDERSON: He was my chief influence, though I admired Reed Crandall, too. Any influence that Crandall gave me was probably because, when I started at Fiction House, they had a “Ka’anga” story he had drawn lying around and everybody could look at it. Crandall did one “Ka’anga” story for them, and you could see where I was trying to copy his stuff, too. He influenced me, but not to the degree that Lou Fine did.

aptitude for doing that. He just wanted to be an artist. That made it easier for them to work together. I don’t think Lou Fine was particularly interested in being a cartoonist. He wanted to be a painter like Dean Cornwell and Rockwell. I had seen some of Lou’s paintings at the Grand Central School of Art. Ruben Moriera went there, too. I had met Lou at Quality, as I told you. One day Ruby said, “Why don’t you come over?” I did, but Lou didn’t show up for school that night. Ruby took me back to their locker; they shared a locker, I guess. He showed me all these Lou Fine paintings, though I don’t remember the subject matter. This had to be 1944, when I started for Fiction House.

JA: Even now, though, I still see Lou Fine’s influence in your ink line. ANDERSON: Yes, and Will Eisner’s, too. Will influenced Lou a great deal, too. Will told me about how they would, as a game, ink a bunch of featured lines, then hand them over to the other guy, and he’d have to ink over them without thickening the lines. They worked with Japanese brushes because Will could buy them real cheap, but it took some experience to know how to use them. While I could do it, I couldn’t do it fast. JA: I tried it once. I’d heard the story you told, but I couldn’t get the hang of it. The brush point isn’t flexible at all.

V. Norman Rockwell and Others JA: So Fine was still painting then?

The “Black Condor” story in Crack Comics #17 (Oct. 1941), as collector Dennis Beaulieu pointed out when he provided us with photocopies of the original art, is representative of the period when Lou Fine was using Japanese brushes to achieve delicate linework. [©2002 DC Comics.]

ANDERSON: I talked about it with Ben Oda because I didn’t know anything about Japanese brushes. I bought an ink blot and two or three Japanese brushes and tried it, but the brush lies flat after each stroke. [laughs] That’s why Will liked them. You could do long, curved lines with them. I don’t know if Will ever told you this, but he was influenced by Japanese prints. He was also influenced by J.C. Leyendecker. JA: Will Eisner and I talked about this for an upcoming issue of Alter Ego, because I was trying to discern which of the two men started doing the trap shadowing on figures first. Leyendecker did it before they did, and that’s where the idea came from. But I can’t tell, by looking at their work from the Eisner & Iger days, who got the idea first.

ANDERSON: Lou Fine never told me this—I discovered this for myself—that he was heavily influenced by Leyendecker and Norman Rockwell. The attitude of figures and the rendering of lines that Fine and Eisner did came from these men.

ANDERSON: Yes, but I don’t know if he ever sold any of his paintings. I became aware of the Rockwell influence when I sat down to copy some of Rockwell’s stuff and ink it like I did for comics. It came out like Lou Fine. It turned on a switch in my head and I finally understood it.

JA: Well, if you study the famous self-portrait of Rockwell painting himself, you’ll notice that figure is Lou Fine-ish. I can see how Fine was influenced by Rockwell. ANDERSON: Oh, yeah. You go back and look at the way that Lou Fine, and Will Eisner to a degree, articulated hands... especially Lou... you’ll see these wonderfully stretched fingers and the way they moved. Gil Kane tried to imitate that, too. Gil and I were probably the two most notorious Lou Fine fans. Anyway, you look at Rockwell and then Fine, and you’ll see where he was getting all that stuff. Will had studied with George Bridgman and Rockwell studied Bridgman’s work. All this kind of goes back to Howard Pyle, and Rockwell was greatly influenced by Pyle. JA: And I think that perhaps you and Gil Kane learned the most from Lou Fine of all the artists that followed.

JA: It seems like there’s a period when Fine’s working for Eisner (preSpirit days) where they both seem to developing similar attitudes at the same time. Eisner felt this was because they were both talking to each other in the shop and discussing how best to make art.

ANDERSON: You’d be surprised. Alex Toth was greatly influenced by Lou Fine. He had a period when he was really trying to work like Lou. Alex was not like most of us; he already knew how to draw well enough, so he didn’t have to copy anyone. He was trying to get the essence of Lou Fine.

ANDERSON: Sure. It was a mutual admiration society on an artistic level. Will was the boss and he had to run things, and Lou Fine had no

I remember thinking that Alex was influenced by Lou Fine, but never

Murphy Anderson saw an instance of where he actually copied from him. And then, one day, Alex drew something in one of his stories, and I said, “Ah-ha! I got him!” It was from a “Mr. Coffee Nerves” that Lou had done. I dug through my files because I had remembered Lou’s drawing. It was the same scene, but Alex had done it from another angle. The figure was the same, but shown from another angle. I’m sure Alex had just filed it away in his head, and whether he was conscious of it or not, he had drawn the same thing. I don’t think he could have drawn it as he did if he’d had Lou’s drawing in front of him. JA: That could be, because Alex never had to copy anybody. ANDERSON: No, he didn’t have to. I don’t know if Alex was above doing it, but he didn’t have to waste his time copying anybody. JA: Did you have many opportunities to meet with Lou Fine during your time in comics?

Murphy says: “Gil [Kane] and I were probably the two most notorious Lou Fine fans.” Here are Murphy’s splashes for his artistic re-tellings of two Eisner-Fine heroes—and the final two pages of penciled layouts from an unpublished “Ray” origin by Gil Kane. “Doll Man” is from Secret Origins #8 (Nov. ’86)—“Uncle Sam” from Secret Origins #19 (Oct. ’87). The splash and another page of Gil’s “Ray” roughs, meant for an issue of S.O. but shelved, appeared in Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #3 and #12. [©2002 DC Comics.]

ANDERSON: No. In the late 1960s Lou did a couple of covers for Joe Kubert when Joe was editing war comics for DC. Joe looked him up and asked him to do them and twisted his arm until Lou did them. Lou brought them up one day and I was sort of sharing an office with Joe

Lou Fine and Fiction House

and [ace proofreader] Gerta Gattel. Lou didn’t remember meeting me. The sad irony of the whole thing was that the covers were beautiful but were very static. Joe bought them but told me he couldn’t use them. They weren’t right for a war comic where everything has to be dramatic. That’s the thing that Lou had lost: the wonderful feeling he’d had for figures and action. But he had gotten that from Rockwell, who always had kids flying and jumping around. I think Lou did two covers for Joe, one of which I remember. The figures were standing and were very dramatic but were passive for comic books. JA: Your work changed over the years, but you managed to keep some of the Fine (and Eisner) influence in your work. What do you consider to be Fine’s biggest influence on you? ANDERSON: It’s mainly in the approach to drawing the human figure. I loved the way he Another Space Conquerors! page by the pseudonymous Lou Fine, from Boy’s Life magazine. Original art courtesy of Murphy Anderson. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.] animated the figures and I tried to get that in my work. In regards to panel composition, some work at that time because I thought they had the lowest standards. page layout and storytelling, there were many, many other influences [laughs] I thought they might give me work. They said they liked the there. While I never really cared for Milton Caniff’s style, I greatly cover I’d submitted, which was shamelessly influenced by Lou Fine’s admired his storytelling and got a lot of my organization and storyBlue Beetle covers. They wanted to use it and asked if could I write a telling from him. story around it. I had started at Carolina then and didn’t have time to do JA: Well, the time when Fine was working in comics was Art Decoit. This was 1943. When I went to New York in 1944, Holyoke was one influenced, and that spilled into the comics, too. of the places I’d contacted. That’s where I met Milt Caine. ANDERSON: Yes, but I don’t think the comic artists of the time were thinking like that. I’m sure you’re thinking of Leyendecker as an example of Art Deco, and I guess he is, so to that extent the artists were influenced. But basically, Lou and Will were influenced by the straight illustrators. JA: And there’s some Alex Raymond in Fine’s work, too. ANDERSON: Yes. Anyone who did science-fiction in comics was influenced by him. Raymond was a big favorite of mine. I wasn’t impressed when Lou or Will did science-fiction. I liked their costumes somewhat, but it wasn’t their strongest work.

VI. “One of the Worst Things That Happened to Me” JA: What did Fine’s pencils look like? ANDERSON: Oh, they were beautiful. I have a stat somewhere of one of his penciled movie ads. You know, his clients would look at his work and just be dumbfounded because it was so good. JA: Gill Fox told me that Fine used a lot of construction lines to build a figure and then he’d pick the right line when he inked them.

JA: Off tape, you mentioned Milt Caine to me. Would you tell me about him?

ANDERSON: That’s partly true. Possibly, one of the worst things that happened to me, and it changed my whole approach to penciling, was when I sat next to George Tuska at Fiction House. He saw how much I admired Lou Fine and said, “Let me show you how Lou works.” Since they’d both worked at Eisner & Iger’s, George knew Lou very well. “He draws a nude figure and then puts the clothes on”... constructs it, in other words.

ANDERSON: He was an independent agent and represented Lou Fine. I never heard that from anyone else, but he had I had never drawn like that. I always put the clothes some original penciled daily strips by Lou, on the figure as I drew it. I was untutored, and it so I took him at his word. Caine was opened my eyes to a whole new style of working. I put involved with Holyoke at that away my old way of drawing, and then I time, and they were publishing saw Bob Lubbers at work and Bob never These Lou Fine magazine illustrations show the style that allowed him Blue Beetle. I had sent them constructed a darn thing; he just drew. I to dominate comics-style advertising for some years, but at the expense of the vaunted “lyricism” of his early comic book work. Thanks to Dennis Beaulieu. [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

Murphy Anderson riggings. They stopped and looked at it and then went back to the studio. When they did, Reed Crandall sat down and drew the darn thing. Dan was slack-jawed, and he was no slouch himself. I came back from the Navy in 1945 and went back to work at Fiction House. Bob Lubbers had come back, too. He had been the fair-haired boy at Fiction House and got a big greeting. He was virtually a war hero because he’d flown so many missions. Bob had come in on Friday, his first day back after two or three years in the Army. I was out of the office for Thanksgiving and didn’t come back until Monday (I had gone to Chicago). They didn’t have a desk for Bob, so he used mine. When I came back, there were seven penciled pages of Bob Lubbers drawings on my table. They were ready to ink. He was that fast and just drew directly on the page. He didn’t draw any construction lines; it was in his head and he just drew it. JA: That’s how Kirby was able to produce so much work. ANDERSON: Yes, because you had to do a lot of work. The wages in comics at that time weren’t so great, and the guys who were talented had a lot of people shoving work at them.

VI. “Fiction House Had to Take Me Back” JA: There hasn’t been a whole lot written about publisher Thurman Scott, except for what Bill Black’s done in his AC Comics line. ANDERSON: Will Eisner’s the man who could tell you about him. He did a lot of work for him in the early days. Everybody has their Thurman Scott story. All the covers were done under his guidance. The artist had to do a cover sketch first and send it down to him in Georgia. Scott would look it over and send it back with elaborate corrections. Then the artists would have to reproduce it with those corrections. Joe Doolin and Dan Zolnerowich would draw the sketches on squared-off paper. By this I mean that the paper had squares printed on the paper, so it would make it easier to enlarge. Scott scrutinized everything and he was, in a sense, a genius.

often thought that maybe it was a bad thing that had happened to me, because it really slowed me down. The first story I drew at Fiction House was done my old way. How things would have turned out if I continued the old way is something I don’t know, but I wouldn’t have been happy once I knew the proper way to draw. JA: I noticed that every time I’ve seen you draw at conventions, you constructed the figure first. I got a big kick out of watching you draw that Black Condor piece for me, and I never erased your penciled construction lines. While you were drawing it, you were telling me the importance of understanding what the human figure looks like when in perspective. [NOTE: That Black Condor sketch appeared in Alter Ego V3#12.] ANDERSON: I draw the motion lines first. I didn’t construct everything in the panels: just the key figures. Jack Kirby’s another guy who never seemed to construct anything first. Or Reed Crandall, for that matter. He’d get a mental image in his head and it looked like he was tracing it off. Dan Zolnerowich told me that he and Reed Crandall went to lunch with a couple of people once. They passed one of the big banks, and in the bank window was a model of a tall ship, with all the masts and

JA: Since Scott was in Georgia, it seems like it’d cause havoc with deadlines. ANDERSON: Oh, no. They’d use the phone a great deal and he came up occasionally. Scott’s wife inherited Fiction House and he figured he’d manage it. That’s the story I heard, but Will Eisner’s the man who could tell you more about it. JA: How long were you in the Navy? ANDERSON: Not long, about ten months, and then the war was over. Fiction House let me freelance while I was in the service. I had a lapboard, and in boot camp, because I had already worked at Fiction House, they let me do signs and different things. I became part of the temporary ship’s company, you might call it. They’d send the whole company down to do chowhall duty, and each company had to rotate duties. I missed out on that, but had to do all the guard duty. I worked midnight until 4 a.m., just standing in the hallway somewhere. [laughs] JA: I’d like to ask you about a couple other people. You knew John Celardo, too, didn’t you? ANDERSON: Yes. John’s a very good friend of mine. He came back to Fiction House after the war and they came to me and asked if I knew John. This was in 1945. I said I’d never met him but he’s a great artist. They said, “Oh, yeah? He’s coming back and nobody here knows his work.”

Lou Fine and Fiction House

You see, the law said that companies had to take people back when they returned from the service. Fiction House had to take me back. John had done covers and various things for them. His style was somewhat inspired by Lou Fine, and there were a number of guys doing that. There was one guy who caused a lot of confusion over The Blue Beetle. His name was Charles Nicholas. Have you ever heard of him? JA: Yes. His real name was Charles Wojtokowski. He was a longtime comic book artist. ANDERSON: The confusion arose because Chuck Cuidera’s full name was Charles Nicholas Cuidera. JA: There’s been some disagreement over who created The Blue Beetle. Chuck Cuidera told me he created it, but others claim that Wojtokowski did. ANDERSON: It was Cuidera. I’m going by stories that people tell me. As you said, there are those who said the other Charles Nicholas created it, but I don’t believe it.

Three science-fiction pages by Murphy Anderson: (a) several 1948 Buck Rogers daily strips; (b) a 1993 commission drawing of John Carter of Mars to the rescue; and (c) an “Atomic Knights” page from Strange Adventures #135 (early ’60s). The latter two are repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Steve Hurley. [Buck Rogers ©2002 The Dille Family Trust; “Atomic Knights” art ©2002 DC Comics; John Carter TM & ©2002 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.; that particular art ©2002 Murphy Anderson.]

Murphy Anderson when he did the Blue Beetle newspaper strip. ANDERSON: Yes. It became a house name. Dick Giordano swore that the other Charles Nicholas created Blue Beetle. He knew Nicholas at Charlton and I believe Nicholas did Blue Beetle at Charlton, too. I don’t mean to put Nicholas down because he did some excellent work. Didn’t he do “Kid Patrol” [a feature in Quality’s National Comics]? JA: I believe he did. ANDERSON: I liked his stuff. I knew he worked on Blue Beetle, but the first Blue Beetle stuff I saw was drawn by Chuck Cuidera. JA: Nicholas also worked for Simon and Kirby. ANDERSON: Right. And Nicholas was influenced by Lou Fine to some extent, too. JA: You left Fiction House in 1947.

JA: Chuck told me part of the problem was that Wojtokowski drew Blue Beetle for a while and kept the Charles Nicholas pen name for the rest of his career. ANDERSON: That’s what Chuck told me. I believe Chuck, because he was a pretty straight guy. I don’t believe he’d make up stuff. JA: And of course Jack Kirby used the Charles Nicholas name

ANDERSON: Yes, to do the Buck Rogers newspaper strip. But I made more money at Fiction House. I felt this was the chance of a lifetime, because I was such a big fan of Buck Rogers. The creator, Phil Nowlan, was a well-known science-fiction writer, so a lot of his stuff was real pulp-like material. It wasn’t like the stories in Flash Gordon, which was more fantasy-oriented. I liked the Flash Gordon strip and all of the characters in it, but it wasn’t as satisfying to me as the sciencefiction aspects of Buck Rogers.

Both Murphy Anderson (on right) and interviewer Jim Amash (left) would want us to end with Lou Fine—so here are two more lyrical action pages from the “Black Condor” adventure in 1941’s Crack Comics #9. Photo courtesy of Jim Amash. [Art ©2002 DC Comics.]

Alex Toth

Toth on Fine Yet Another Comic Book Great Looks Back at Lou Fine [Editor’s Note: At the eleventh hour, we were overjoyed to receive the following letter of comment about Lou Fine’s work from none other than Alex Toth, whose work since the latter 1940s has always been some of comic’s finest. The Alex Toth in the 1970s. inverted-triangle look of much of the third “page” is because it was written on the outside of the envelope—some last-minute thoughts we’re glad Alex took the time to add. —Roy.]

(Above:) A pitifully inadequate b-&-w rendering of a great Zorro painting Mr. T. sent us; he drew Zorro for Dell/Western, of course. (Below:) A 1943 Spirit daily drawn by Lou Fine, courtesy of scripter Gill Fox. [Above art ©2002 Alex Toth; Zorro TM & ©2002 Disney; Spirit art ©2002 Will Eisner.]

Toth On Fine

Number 8, Summer 2002 • Hype and hullabaloo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom • Edited by Eric Nolen-Weathington

It’s Time to... Last year we brought you DRAW! and received an incredible response. Now we’re turning our attention to all of you writers out there! You know, an artist can show an editor his work and the editor can evaluate it virtually on the spot. But what qualities are necessary to sell writing? What are editors looking for? What skills are needed, and what other media can these skills be used in? This July, find out in WRITE NOW!, a new quarterly magazine edited by veteran Marvel Comics editor and writer DANNY FINGEROTH! It takes you behind the scenes, into both the creative and business processes that go into writing narrative fiction. Hear from pros ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DESK what it takes to write the stories that readers—and editors—want to read!

In the premiere issue, top professional writers discuss the practical aspects of their craft. You'll get tips and insights from interviews with: BRAIN MICHAEL BENDIS, the writer of Ultimate Spider-Man, Alias, Powers and so many more; JOE QUESADA, editor in chief of Marvel Comics, and co-writer of Ash and writer of Iron Man—he's the guy setting the writing standards at the House of Ideas today; JOSS WHEDON, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the comic Fray, and the upcoming Firefly TV series; J.M. DeMATTEIS, writer of SpiderMan, the Spectre, Man-Thing and Moonshadow; and to get an artist’s perspective on comics scripts, MARK BAGLEY, penciler of Ultimate Spider-Man, New Warriors and Amazing Spider-Man. Plus there’s an interview with STAN (THE MAN) LEE! ('Nuff said.)

The VIPs of POV TwoMorrows is proud to present COMIC BOOKS AND OTHER NECESSITIES OF LIFE, a trade paperback collection of MARK EVANIER’s POV columns! It includes Mark’s best essays and commentaries, many NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED, about the state of the art form (as only he can convey it), the industry’s LEADING PRACTITIONERS (including Jack Kirby and Carl Barks), CONVENTIONGOING, and Mark’s old COMIC BOOK CLUB (with unforgettable anecdotes)! Featuring a new cover and interior illustrations by Mark’s frequent partner, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, this 200-page trade paperback ships in July!

CBA Sold-Out No More!

Find out how their better halves live! Will Eisner does what? Dave Sim is really like that? This August, see what its been like living with comic book creators over the past 60 years, with the people who know them best! This trade paperback explores the lives of the partners and wives of WILL EISNER, ALAN MOORE, STAN LEE, JOE KUBERT, HARVEY KURTZMAN, JOHN ROMITA, GENE COLAN, DAN DECARLO, ARCHIE GOODWIN, and more! In addition to sharing memories and anecdotes you’ll find nowhere else, their better halves have opened up private files to unearth personal photos, momentos, and never-before-seen art by the top creators in comics!

Can’t find those CBA back issues you’re missing? The search is over! In June, simply pick up the COMIC BOOK ARTIST COLLECTION, VOLUME 2! It reprints the sold-out CBA #5 (’70s DC) and #6 (’70s Marvel) and includes over 20 NEW PAGES spotlighting STEVE ENGLEHART and MARSHALL ROGERS’ Batman work, plus DC’s ultra-rare CANCELLED COMIC CAVALCADE! Also included are interviews with and unpublished art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, NEAL ADAMS, JOHN ROMITA SR., and more!

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Coming This Summer! The Jack Kirby Collector #35 (Now!) Comic Book Artist #19 (Now!) CBA Collection, Vol. 2 TPB (Now!) DRAW! #4 (Now!) Panel Discussions TPB (Now!) Alter Ego #16 (Now!) Write Now! #1 (Now!) Comic Book Artist #20 (Now!) Comic Books & Other Necessities Of Life TPB (Now!) Comic Book Artist #21 (Now!) The Jack Kirby Collector #36 (Now!) I Have To Live With This Guy TPB (August)

Pros and Cons The convention season is underway and already we’ve had great shows at the Atlanta and Pittsburgh Comicons. Despite two nominations (for TJKC and CBA), we didn’t win a HARVEY AWARD, but our own ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON did get to be a presenter! Thanks to everyone who stopped by our booth (especially if you bought something)! Next you can find us in Charlotte, NC for Heroes Con on June 14-16 (visit www.heroesonline.com for more info), and the biggie—Comicon International: San Diego, August 1-4 (where CBA, AE, and KIMOTA! are up for EISNER AWARDS)!

Designing? Buy the book! When should you tilt or overlap a comics panel? What’s the best way to divide a page to convey motion, time, action, quiet? PANEL DISCUSSIONS (our new trade paperback, shipping in June) is the place to find out! It picks the minds of the industry’s top storytellers, covering all aspects of the design of comics! Learn from WILL EISNER, MARK SCHULTZ, MIKE MIGNOLA, WALTER SIMONSON, DICK GIORDANO, MARK CHIARELLO and others as they share their hard-learned lessons about the DESIGN of comics!

Verily, ’tis Thor’s 40th year! In August, we’re celebrating the 40th anniversary of THOR in THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #36! To start things off, there’s two incredible color Kirby Thor covers (inked by MIKE ROYER and TREVOR VON EEDEN)! Inside, JOE SINNOTT and JOHN ROMITA JR. weigh in on their Thor work with new interviews, and we present a never-published 1969 interview with JACK KIRBY, conducted by SHEL DORF! Plus, we’re featuring 40 pages of Kirby Thor pencils, including an amazing Kirby Art Gallery at TABLOID SIZE, with pin-ups, covers, and more!

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PLUS:

5.95

In the the USA USA In

No. 17 September 2002

Roy Thomas ’ E Electrifying lectrifying Comics F anzine Comics Fanzine

DOOM PATROL/DEADMAN CO-CREATOR

Arnold Drake SPEAKS OUT ABOUT THE SILVER AGE OF COMICS!

Vol. 3, No. 17 / September 2002

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editors John Morrow Jon B. Cooke

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comics Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Cover Artists Luis Dominguez Lou Fine

Cover Colorists

Contents

Luis Dominguez Tom Ziuko

— In Memoriam —

Robert Kanigher Tom Sutton

Writer/Editorial: What’s Sauce for the Drake . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 My Greatest Adventures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Arnold Drake talks to Marc Svensson about life, Deadman, and The Doom Patrol— plus Drake on memos to Irwin Donenfeld, a Deadman graphic novel, and Western Publishing.

I,A 1965 Robotman . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 fan-article by Roy Thomas about Cliff Steele’s boiler-plate predecessor.

EC Confidential, Part II: Jack Davis and George Evans . . . . . . 33 Michael T. Gilbert continues his series on the non-EC work of EC greats. A Tribute to Dave Berg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 A Tribute to Vince Fago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze, Jay Disbrow, Alvin Schwartz, E. Nelson Bridwell, and the ever-irascible C.C. Beck.

Special Section on Golden Age Great LOU FINE . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: As he relates within, Arnold Drake often sketched out cover ideas for comics he wrote, including for the first “Doom Patrol” story. Bruno Premiani made a few changes when penciling the cover of My Greatest Adventure #80, so artist Luis Dominguez painted this version a few years back; it’s closer to Arnold’s sketch (printed on page 3). [Art ©2002 Arnold Drake & Luis Dominguez; Doom Patrol TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] Above: Neal Adams drew this superb new figure for the slipcase of DC’s 350-page Deadman Collection; you gotta see it in color! [©2002 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10.00 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Eight-issue subscriptions: $40 US, $80 Canada, $88 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Arnold Drake interview ©2002 Marc Svensson & Arnold Drake. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

Whats Sauce For The Drake All I have to say to any true comic book cognoscenti are these words:

Arnold Drake is an important but sometimes underrated figure in the Silver Age of Comics at National/DC. We all know how Julius Schwartz, with writers John Broome and Gardner Fox (and, once in a while, Robert Kanigher) and artists Carmine Infantino, Gil Kane, Mike Sekowsky, and others, launched a revival and updating of Golden Age heroes which revitalized the field. And few would deny that Mort Weisinger and his Superman features, particularly “The Legion of Super-heroes” (currently into an eleventh volume of DC Archives!), were influential on the younger set from the ’50s through much of the ’60s. But Arnold Drake was a one-man revolution all his own, conceiving two of the very best series to come out of DC Comics during the 1960s, and pointing the way to what that company would have to do to compete with Stan Lee’s upstart Marvel Comics Group.

The Doom Patrol. And Deadman. The rest I’ll let Arnold himself tell you about, both in a colorful interview conducted by Marc Svensson, and via some documents Arnold himself provided. Myself, I enjoyed my contacts with Arnold, casual as they were, when he came to write for Marvel in the mid-to-late 1960s on mags like Captain Marvel and X-Men. For the latter, Arnold dreamed up Scott (Cyclops) Summers’ brother Alex, and planted the story seeds that Alex was either also a mutant, or at the very least something more than human (so that Neal Adams and I could evolve Alex, a couple of issues later, into Havok). Arnold worked for Marvel for only a fairly brief period of time, but he left his mark. I’m sorry I didn’t get to know him better when I lived in New York, as he and his wife still do. My loss. He’s a fascinating guy—but hey, Arnie, do you still smoke those odiferous Turkish cigarettes? I want to thank him publicly, here and now, for going the extra mile to provide documents, photos, whatever he could, in connection with his work—particularly because he was doing so at a time when his beloved wife Lillian was ill and I hated to put him to even a modicum of trouble. Mrs. Drake is doing well, I’m happy to say... and so is Arnold Drake, as you’ll see on the following pages... Oh yeah—and our ever-liltin’ letters section (as we used to say in Marvel’s Bullpen Bulletins) will return next issue!

[L. to r.:] Alvin Schwartz (see p. 47), David Siegel, Roy Thomas, and Arnold Drake at the All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention in June 2000. Alvin and Roy were given the first Paul S. Newman writing awards by presenter Arnold; David had arranged for a number of the Golden Age guests to be present. Photo courtesy of con organizer Joe Petrilak.

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My Greatest Adventures

My Greatest Adventures A Candid Conversation with ARNOLD DRAKE, Co-Creator of Deadman and The Doom Patrol Conducted by Marc Svensson Transcribed by Christopher Irving

camera and drive down to NYC. I [INTERVIEWER’S INTROwas supposed to be accompanied by DUCTION: It was the San Diego my good friend Rich Morrissey, but Comic-Con in 1999. I was out there Rich had to cancel, due to work. I with my whole family, which Our esteemed interviewee writes that this photo from years past is was alone on this one, but I was the included our new baby Scott, who of himself (at right), his wife Lillian, and their “good friend and big Doom Patrol fan, so Rich was just a couple of months old. Per great jazz pianist, Walter Bishop, Jr., who died far too young.” thought it was appropriate. usual, I had brought along a bunch [Photo courtesy of Arnold Drake.] (Unfortunately, Rich has now left of video equipment to capture us for good—a hard fact that still footage of the idols of my youth. (Left:) Arnold’s pencil sketch for the first-ever “Doom Patrol” cover, from brings tears to my eyes. It has been Shockingly, I had not paid close which Luis Dominguez produced the painting used as a cover of this over a year and I still have trouble attention to the guest list for the issue of A/E—and (right) the cover of My Greatest Adventure #80 as talking about him.) convention, and had completely rendered from the sketch by Bruno Premiani (with an unidentified inker) failed to notice that Arnold Drake for that June 1963 magazine, and reprinted in The Doom Patrol Archives, [I should take the time to do a was attending. Worse—I had Vol. 1, published in early 2002. [Sketch ©2002 Arnold Drake; Doom Patrol couple of “Thank You’s.” Most of and cover TM & c 2002 DC Comics.] scheduled away the time when his my video stuff never sees print, but spotlight panel was going to appear. thanks to the indomitable David Siegel, I was able to meet Chris (I had to spend some time with my wife and our new baby in San Irving. Chris, a multi-talented guy, is one hell of a transcriber, and I Diego—or face divorce proceedings!) I was in a fix, and I could not have him to thank for banging out this transcript from my videotape. get anyone to fill in for me—not even fellow video hound Mike I should thank Martin O’Hearn, whose expertise I am sure shaped Catron! This was painful, because I am a true Doom Patrol fan. this interview, even if not directly—and Rich Morrissey. The thanks Growing up, my older brother Chris and I used to pass around the to Arnold should be obvious. This tape is dedicated to Lillian Drake. DP’s early adventures. DP villains like Animal-Vegetable-Mineral As much as I am an Arnold Drake fan, I’m a Lillian Drake fan. — Man became household names. (We especially took to AVM Man; Marc Svensson (who is recovering from an operation to remove a after all, our father was 100% Swedish—and this was the first cyst from his spine as he writes this.)] Swedish super-villain we had ever encountered. We began wondering if our dad could turn into a giant broccoli stalk.) Anyway, you could not be a Doom Patrol fan without being an Arnold Drake fan. What was I going to do? [I took time out from taping and ran down to Arnold’s table at the con, explaining my dilemma, and that the only way I could make up for it was if he would let me come down to New York City where he lived and interview him on film for no less than two hours. Arnold must have thought I was out of my mind. Fortunately, he and his lovely wife Lillian agreed. (The next shock I got was when I found out that Arnold and Lillian lived less than five blocks from where I used to live in Manhattan.) [A couple of months after the convention, I made my final preparations with Arnold, and my own lovely wife allowed me to pack up my

ARNOLD DRAKE: [holding up a copy of It Rhymes with Lust] This is one of Matt Baker’s very first commercial works. It’s something I invented along with a guy named Les Waller, an American novelist. We called it the “picture novel.” Today they’d call it a graphic novel. That was too fancy a phrase in 1950. I was still at New York University. It’s black-&-white on the inside. The idea was that we created this to sell to literate people who just haven’t read books, and we thought this was a way to get them to read books. We also thought that, if you’d print it in color, it would look like a comic book, and we didn’t want it to. It was a crossover, and we didn’t think it’d cross over well if the insides looked like a comic book. One of the things we insisted on was that the insides be black-&-white, not color. We didn’t have to fight too hard when the publisher saw how much money he’d save on the inside.

4 MARC SVENSSON: Comic books were on the way out then. Were you worried about the Kefauver Commission [the Congressional commission which investigated comics very publicly and infamously in 1954].

Arnold Drake Arnold says this (color) sketch he did is a “3 a.m. mock-up I did that sold St. John Publishing on ’Picture Novels’ (“graphic” was too highfalutin’ a word in 1950).” During this period, he says, “while still attending NYU on the G.I. Bill, I earned pocket money freelancing: two pulp private-eye stories near the end of that era; The Steel Noose, a mystery novel, and some comics.” [©2002 Arnold Drake.]

DRAKE: No, I wasn’t. Comics were going down, but TV was the villain. I think everything was being affected, Hollywood in particular, by television. It was really starting to take a bite out of the box office in 1951 or ’52. MS: It wasn’t censorship so much as television impeding? DRAKE: I don’t think censorship means anything after about six months. That’s about how long those things last. Unless we’re talking about a totalitarian system. And we’re not. Also, if you want to get a kid

even in his early stuff. He was also probably paid below even the lousy pay scale of that time, because Matt was black. And there were hardly any black artists in the field at the time. A brilliant artist. Also one of the sharpest dressers I ever saw! MS: He did incredible covers for Phantom Lady. You may be the only person with a copy of that! DRAKE: I think there are at least two others. MS: You were at NYU [New York University] at the time? DRAKE: Yes. At that same time, anything for a buck, I wrote several stories in what I call “naughty comics”: Candid Tales and Bold Stories. I think the level of this is demonstrated by an ad on the back. These are not highclass advertising layouts. [holds up the two magazines] This was published by a guy named Red Kirby. We called him Red; I think his real name was John, but I’m not sure. It’s probably most famous for the fact that it has a couple of Wally Wood’s first stories: “Ogre of Paris,” and “I Married a Freak.” These two books are also extremely rare. MS: Wood was very fantastic, such a good artist. DRAKE: Yeah, and this was very early. He was still to get about 200% better. It was issued in March 1950, meaning I wrote it in 1949.

Courtesy of Arnold: the front and back covers of the 1950 Arnold Drake-Les Waller opus It Rhymes with Lust...

to do something, tell him he can’t do it. They told the kids, “These books are bad for you,” so the kids paid an arm and a leg to get their hands on them. Anyhoo, that was when we thought we could turn former comic book readers into picture novel readers. But it didn’t get a long enough test. And then the publisher died. MS: Who published that? DRAKE: Archer St. John. I’m told that Archer died of an overdose, early on, but I don’t know that as a fact. MS: So you got Matt Baker to do the art. After Phantom Lady, he was one of the top artists in the field. How did you meet him? DRAKE: I didn’t; the publisher did. Archer apparently got Baker for a very low price, because I think Matt was really just getting off the ground. He was a great artist, and it shows,

...and a couple of pages from the interior. Arnold tells us that “Les(lie) Waller was the author of such novels as Hide in Plain Sight (from which a film was made) and The Family (a pre-The Godfather mafia novel).” Art by Matt Baker of Phantom Lady fame—or infamy, if you believed Dr. Fredric Wertham’s 1950s tome Seduction of the Innocent. [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

My Greatest Adventures

LILLIAN DRAKE: Nice guy. DRAKE: Real nice guy. MS: When you say “we,” it was you and which other writers? DRAKE: Ed Herron, Gardner Fox, Dave Wood, Bob Haney. MS: You were actually writing at DC? DRAKE: Very often, before I took my own office. MS: That was 575 Lexington? DRAKE: Yeah. DC had moved. They had originally been down around 44th Street, and they moved to 49th, a new building. MS: I think the advertising was 205 East 42nd. That’s not what it was? DRAKE: It may have been, because it was around that part of town. [Co-publisher Jack] Liebowitz had been most strongly in favor of moving; he thought it was good for the industry. I don’t think that [copublisher] Harry Donenfeld liked the idea; he thought it’d be too expensive. He was a very down-to-earth kind of guy; Liebowitz was not. I used to call Liebowitz “the Jewish Neville Chamberlain.” Chamberlain (or “Chamberpot”, if you prefer, and I did!) was the British Prime Minister who handed Czechoslovakia over to Hitler: an ultra-conservative who was also ultra-proper. They said he carried his umbrella even to bed. Open! And that was Liebowitz.

MS: This is when the covers were dated three months ahead? DRAKE: If you bought a magazine that was cover-dated two months early, you would say, “I’m not going to buy an old magazine like this.” MS: 1953 is when you showed up at DC Comics? DRAKE: I think so. MS: The first story you did was “The Second Death of Abraham Lincoln.” That was for [editor Jack] Schiff, or— DRAKE: Weisinger. MS: You did work for Mort Weisinger! After that came the “Fireman Farrell” [The Brave and the Bold #1], and you did a couple of stints on “Tommy Tomorrow.”

So the first morning after the move I got in very early. Sitting at my machine, I hear Harry Donenfeld come down the hall shouting, “$280,000-a-year rent and I can’t even take a s***! They locked the executive bathroom on me!!” Harry was no “Neville” Liebowitz. Anyway, those expensive new quarters made them a bit more professional. It was a separation from their early beginnings. Back then they never felt totally professional. It was like they were doing something sneaky. MS: Given some of the characters around then, I can see why.

DRAKE: That was a while later. There was a period where I refused to work with Mort, and so I worked with Schiff only. MS: You actually came into conflict with Mort? [laughs] Amazing! DRAKE: Oh, yes, his attitude was very clear to me: “The only way I can stand tall is to kick somebody in the nuts, and that makes me a big man.” I decided I didn’t need that. MS: But you did work in between on “Space Ranger” and “Tommy Tomorrow”? DRAKE: We didn’t like “Space Ranger,” and when I say “we,” I mean all the writers. It was a Schiff invention, and Schiff inventions were much too tame. “Dial ’H’ for Hero” was a Schiff invention and was essentially the same thing. We weren’t crazy about it. We would have to flip a coin to see who was going to write the next damned “Space Ranger.” It would fall to me, and the entire afternoon I would sit at the typewriter, singing, “Space Ranger, I hate you, Space Ranger, you’re mine.” [laughter] MS: Did you know Jack Schiff? DRAKE: Sure.

Arnold Drake Arnold Drake in his own words—so be sure you read this caption! “Countrywide Publishing (Myron Fass and brother) issued The World of Sherlock Holmes. Sheldon Reynolds, who owned the Conan Doyle estate, leased them the rights. At the dawn of TV, Shelly, with a few bucks from an accident insurance claim, went to Europe and, on a shoestring budget, produced an espionage series with exotic European locales. Then he made the first TV-Holmes series (this time with two shoestrings), and finally bought the estate to beat paying endless royalties. I had known Shelly for years. So he asked me to edit (and keep an eye on Myron). I filled the magazine with all kinds of Victoriana (the fashion, food, and famous folks of the period), plus a lengthy Holmes pastiche by me. I based much of that yarn on the founding of the Salvation Army in London, which got off the ground so fast that it moved here within seven years. An incredibly vigorous pair, mother and son, made it work.” This is the cover of issue #1-and-only. Continued in next caption! [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

DRAKE: They were schizophrenic. They thought, “Kids need the classics, not this junk! We’re subverting the child.” But my childhood classics were Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, Dr. Doolittle, Huck Finn. So we grew up on comic book material—without pictures. The moment you added pictures, people said, “Oh, you’ve cheapened it!” Incidentally, I edited a magazine, The World of Sherlock Holmes, in 1976, an entertaining view of Victoriana: the clothes, the food, the sexual mores. I also wrote a Holmes pastiche for it—about Jack the Ripper and the founders of the Salvation Army. But issue #2 was never published. The publisher and Shelly Reynolds (owner of the Conan Doyle estate and the first to bring Holmes to TV) had a falling out. End of magazine! MS: Many of the things we’re talking about have made it into standard course curriculums in college, whether it’s H.G. Wells’ War of the Worlds or Asimov’s stuff, and that was pulp material. I’m of the argument that much of the higher stuff will make it into curriculum.

Family, which hardly anyone has ever heard of. I don’t know how many years it ran; I read it for maybe five or six years. It was one of the wildest syndicated strips, and I’m dying to get my hands on them. Boy, I’d love to read them again. The creator ended up in a psycho ward, and it shows in the later work. But God!—it was funny. MS: The second story you did at DC was “The Return of Mr. Future,” a “Batman” story with Dick Sprang art. Earlier in the Golden Age, Dick Sprang had drawn one called “Mr. Future,” which had H.G. Wells returning, and you had Jules Verne returning. I know Dick Sprang was off in Phoenix, Arizona, so you probably didn’t have much contact with him. Did an editor hand you an outline, or was it coincidence? DRAKE: It was an idea that was bugging me for a couple of years. Somewhere along the line I said, “They keep doing these damned stories in which the hero finally gets into a totally impossible situation, and he has to die, so he wakes up and says ’Oh, it was all a dream.’” The first time it was marvelous, but it got so often the audience anticipated it and hated it. I said, “What I’d like to do, one of these days, is a story where the guy says ’Oh, it’s all a dream,’ and then realizes, ’No, it’s reality.’” That’s what I wanted to do, so that’s where “The Second Death of Abraham Lincoln” came about: there’s this guy who thinks that he’s

DRAKE: I don’t think that it’s so much that the teachers began to recognize the value, as it was that they said, “We’re not getting any contact with students. What can we do to get that contact?” And then they said, “Give them what they want, and lead them from what they desire to what they can use later in life.” I think that’s what did it and continues to do it. MS: I know that Maus [Art Spiegelman’s graphic novel] won a Pulitzer Prize. LILLIAN: We met the creator at the San Diego con. What a kick that was. DRAKE: Krazy Kat did it! It actually won a Pulitzer. LILLIAN: That’s one of my favorites. I didn’t know what the heck was going on, but I loved it anyway. DRAKE: Later on, there was something called The Bungle

Arnold continues: “For issue #2 (of The World of Sherlock Holmes), I wrote a far better story involving the Police Commissioner of NYC, one Teddy Roosevelt, and an alcoholic John L. Sullivan [one-time champion boxer], who ended his career giving temperance lectures. Holmes beats ’the champ’ in a fist fight using Asian martial arts. Doyle himself alluded to such skills in an early story... A falling-out between Fass and Reynolds over some petty s*** killed issue #2. It went to legal arbitration which Myron attended with a gun strapped on his hip. When I objected to firearms in a court atmosphere, he doffed it. Myron was definitely two sandwiches short of a picnic. The sad part of this tale is that there is no existing copy of that story. But there is a two-page color spread (by Luis Dominguez) depicting the Sulllivan-Holmes fight, with TR holding Holmes’ coat. It includes my opening monologue. It’s the only copy extant.” We’re only sorry we couldn’t print it in color, Arnold! [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

My Greatest Adventures dreaming that he’s Lincoln, but no, he really is. MS: Back to “The Return of Mr. Future”: Bill Finger rewrote one page of copy of yours? What was the story behind that?

The cop at left, says Arnold, is France “Eddie” Herron, major writer and earlier an editor for Fawcett—while the robber is DC editor Jack Schiff. Gang Busters #10 (June-July 1950) was based on a popular radio series. [©2002 DC Comics.]

DRAKE: One day, years after the fact, I said to Bill, “I understand you repaired one of my first ’Batman’ [scripts].” He said, “Mort called me in one day, and said, ’I don’t have any assignments for you,’ and I said ’Mort, I need a check.’ Mort said, ’Repair this, see what you can do with it, it’s a first effort.’ I think I changed two balloons on the last page. That was my entire contribution. Mort wanted to give me a check. So that’s how he did it.” LILLIAN: You know Bill Finger was the [co-]creator of Batman?

DRAKE: How do you think? That reminds me: one day Mort poked his head into the writers’ bullpen and asked, “What would be a good name for a whale?” And Ed Herron said, “Should we let him have it, men?” Anyway, “The Whale” came up with an idea, and said he’d like to talk to me about it. It was already public knowledge that I refused to work with him. He knew, and when he said, “I’d like to talk to you about an assignment,” there had to be something special on his mind. In his office he said, “I’m going to start a new series, and every issue is going to be a different character or characters, and if any issue stands out, we’ll give it its own title. We’re going to call it Showcase.” I said, “That’s marvelous! You are auditioning comics! You have a great idea. It’s exciting. Let me go home, and see what I can come up with.” It was my first chance to get my own start-from-scratch on paper. Then he pulled the plug on me. “No, you don’t have to think up anything. I already know what it’s going to be about.” I said, “Okay, what’s it about?” He said, “It’s going to be about a fireman.” I said, “You’re kidding, aren’t you?” He said, “No. Every time I put fire on a cover, that magazine sells. The kids are crazy about fire.” I remember him lecturing [DC editor] Jack Miller (I think it was), saying, “Every time we put gold or cash or diamonds, on the cover, the cover sells. The kids are crazy about gold, or cash, or jewels.” That was

DRAKE: They screwed him worst of all. Probably more so than even Siegel and Shuster. MS: He was a very important writer, and he died in the 1970s, penniless. DRAKE: It was one of my great regrets that I didn’t get closer to him. He indicated a number of times that he’d like to get closer. I was frightened, because Bill was not a very stable guy, and I think I probably compared him to myself and said, “I’m two steps from there myself.” I think that scared me off a little bit. MS: To tell you the truth, everybody I’ve talked to absolutely loved the man. DRAKE: There was nothing not to like about him. The only thing I didn’t like about him was that he didn’t know how to protect himself in any way, shape, or form. I’m not the greatest in that department, myself. Bill had zero self-defense; otherwise, he’d never have wound up in that position. Kane was taken care of big-time, but why, when Finger was not? Kane fought for himself, and he had somebody in there fighting for him. I think his father was a lawyer. LILLIAN: And he had somebody doing his paintings. MS: He didn’t do just about anything! [laughs] I loved that Sixty Years of Batman panel [at a comics convention], with your comments. The third story you did—do you remember what that was? DRAKE: It was either another “Batman”—which it probably was—or another House of Mystery or House of Secrets. MS: Then “Fireman Farrell,” Showcase #1, was your book, where you’re doing all the heavy lifting, in terms of writing. What inspired that? Who was the editor on that? DRAKE: Weisinger. We had a lot of differences. Most of us called him The Whale. MS: The Whale? You haven’t told me how that came about.

Arnold now seems less than 100% positive whether “The Return of Mr. Future” (in Batman #98, March 1956) was written before or after his Abe Lincoln tale for House of Mystery #51, which has a June ’56 cover date. Art by Dick Sprang and (probably) Charles Paris. Thanks to Michelle Nolan. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Arnold Drake result is that I own a magazine that sold very few copies, so now it’s worth quite a bit of money. If it had been a hit, it wouldn’t be worth a tenth of that. “Nothing succeeds like failure” is one of my favorite axioms. MS: John Prentice drew it; he’s famous for doing Rip Kirby. DRAKE: I’m going to be selling my collection, and I’m planning on stamping them “From the private collection of ——.” 98% of the collection is stuff I wrote. I have 800 comic books, but I probably wrote twice that many. I made up a stamp for the lower corner of the book. Think that would hurt? MS: It might. It depends. It is such a fickle market. I’d love for the market to crash so that I can get all the ones that I’m missing. [laughs] Let’s move on to 1963. My favorite is “The Doom Patrol.” LILLIAN: We have some interesting reactions at conventions about “The Doom Patrol.” One day we were surrounded, and one man said to him, “You changed my life!” [laughs]

“Fireman Farrell” was the ostensible star of Showcase #1 (March-April 1956) behind this cover by John Prentice—but the real star was the concept, as revealed on the introductory page drawn by Win Mortimer. It would take issues #4-5, debuting “The Flash” and “Challengers of the Unknown,” for the comic to begin to demonstrate its potential. See the 1992 trade paperback The Essential Showcase—1956-1959. [©2002 DC Comics.]

another theory. Of course he was defining his own obsessions, not the kids’. Mort said, “That’s it, write a story about a fireman.” A lot of the excitement was gone from this. I wasn’t able to create what may have been “The Doom Patrol,” that would have happened years earlier. I said, “Okay,” and I determined to do the best job I could—not to let my prejudice against the idea influence me. I researched firemen: how they were trained, the different kinds of fires, how they detect the different causes of fires. I spent three days at it. When you’re writing comic books, that’s a long time. Today we’d call it a “docudrama.” It was pretty authentic for that time: an interesting story about a fireman and his family. Mort was very satisfied, and very happy. LILLIAN: Unusual. DRAKE: When I turned in the manuscript I said, “I’ve got to tell you, kids really don’t want to grow up to be firemen anymore. They did when you and I were kids. Today, they want to fly to the moon, be brain surgeons, or atomic scientists.” Mort said, “You wait.” The magazine was a dog, one of the worst bombs they ever published (it may have been the worst). I reckoned that they had an 18% sales record, so they took back several hundred thousand magazines and chopped them up. The result is that there are very few copies left, though I have a copy of “Fireman Farrell,” so I have to thank Mort Weisinger for having published the stupidest idea for a comic book. The

DRAKE: Several guys have said, “You changed my whole approach to comics, so I’m now an artist or writer, and it was ’The Doom Patrol.’” There was this one guy who said, “You changed my life,” and he disappeared. I wanted very much to know how: “Did I know your mother when I was much younger, or was it anything like that?” But, he was gone. MS: How did the original assignment come to be? What was going through your head? We have to talk about a lot of things, including the weird parallels between The X-Men and “The Doom Patrol.” DRAKE: Somewhere, about that time, I had written a seven-page memorandum to Irwin Donenfeld, the publisher, in which I explained why it was that Stan Lee was moving at a rapid rate of success, and DC was standing still. One of the things I said in it was, “We’re not reflecting the present generation. What we’re doing is writing the stories of our youth, and [we’re] not selling to our youth, but to our children, so we’ve got to get more in touch with what’s happening.” [NOTE: Much of that historic memo is reprinted on pp. 21-22 of this issue. —RT.] “The Doom Patrol” was precisely that: an attempt to understand how kids were thinking at that time, and kids were not thinking that superheroes are real, because that wasn’t what was happening in their world. They knew that there were weaknesses in human beings. They saw it in their own parents. The super-hero was far more of a plastic thing. “The Doom Patrol” was an attempt to move the super-hero into a more real world and say, “They’ve got problems, too. You don’t live without problems. Nobody does.” MS: Were you looking at Lee and Kirby’s Fantastic Four, or any specific Marvel title? DRAKE: I have no memory of reading his stuff, but I’m sure I must have. I knew what they were doing. Before I wrote that memo, I looked

My Greatest Adventures

Three more of Arnold’s sketches for “Doom Patrol” covers (clockwise): My Greatest Adventure #81 (Aug. 1963, the second “DP” issue)... #89 (Aug. ’64)... and a later one (undated—any ideas out there?). [Art ©2002 Arnold Drake; Doom Patrol TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

at some of what they were doing, and understood. They were making an effort to be closer to their audience than we were. Our editors didn’t reply to letters from readers. Marvel was reading that stuff and learning. MS: June 1963 was the date on My Greatest Adventure #80 [featuring the first “Doom Patrol” tale], and I’ll read what you wrote: “You three are victims of cruel and fantastic fate. I’ve summoned you here to give you an opportunity to cheat that fate by offering you the challenge to experience adventures more incredible than any humans have ever known.” That’s what the Chief said, and what launched off the book. Very much your stamp. I see Arnold Drake all over that, very unique.

Chances are you’ve seen this Jack Kirby/Paul Reinman cover before—most recently in The Essential Uncanny X-Men, Vol. 1, even though the adjective “Uncanny” was only added to the title after the fact, to distinguish it from later incarnations. X-Men #1 had a Sept. 1963 cover date, while the first “Doom Patrol” story came out approximately three months earlier, dated June. [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

used to put down Sherlock. Sherlock was a younger brother. I think, maybe, that had something to do with it. I’m a younger brother. Anyway, I thought the best way to pay homage to the Chief’s giant intellect was to confine him to a wheelchair. MS: I often felt, from certain angles, that Bruno Premiani was drawing the Chief based on somebody. I look at individual panels now, and some of them are rendered in his style that’s very Bruno, and fantastic, and some that I thought he might have had a photographic reference for. Do you know if he was? DRAKE: I doubt that Bruno would have done that. There are a lot of artists who do it, and get some pretty good results, but I think Bruno would have thought it was cheating. The Chief, as Bruno saw him with that great eye of his, reminded me of the character actor, Sebastian Cabot. Bruno was a well-read guy, and I think he often incorporated figures like Captain Nemo, for example. [MARC’S NOTE: Arnold phoned me a couple of months after this interview, and told me he had recalled that he and Bruno did use Sebastian Cabot as inspiration for the Chief.]

DRAKE: It sounds a little stilted to me, now, but I think the Chief was a little stilted.

MS: I saw some Captain Nemo in various pictures. The great thing about “The Doom Patrol” was the issue-to-issue continuity. Were there any issues not written by you and drawn by Bruno?

MS: Was the Chief based on anybody? Were you drawing from somebody you knew?

DRAKE: For the first one, [Bob] Haney assisted me. After that, no, until the death. After that, they were on their own. Bob Brown did some covers because Bruno was too busy. That artistic integrity made him spend more time on a panel than most artists did.

DRAKE: The closest I can get to it was Mycroft Holmes. Sherlock had a brother, who never left his club, because there was nothing beyond that he was interested in. When Sherlock got into real trouble, he went to Mycroft, and Mycroft never left that chair. It always fascinated me. He

MS: We’ll get to that, because they did three reprint issues: #122, 123, and 124. DRAKE: I was never paid for those. They didn’t know what to replace it with, since we killed them off, so they ran some reprints. MS: Were the characters based on real people? Rita Farr: Olympic gold medalist swimmer and movie star who inhales vapors after going off a

The Chief was visually based on the actor Sebastian Cabot, best known for his continuing role in the 1960s TV series Family Affair.

Arnold Drake cover sketch with story #1. I did sketches for perhaps half the books. And now Luis Dominguez, who was a close friend and collaborator of Bruno, is doing oil paintings of those sketches. They’re for sale—my original sketches and Luis’ magnificent paintings. Pardon the commercial. MS: [examining My Greatest Adventure #80] That’s Bruno and— I’m not quite sure who inked it. DRAKE: It may have been [Bob] Brown, but I’m not sure, either. LILLIAN: DC, for a long time, did not credit names. DRAKE: [holding up magazine] There it is, Bruno “Numero Uno,” the first “Doom Patrol”! MS: Very tough book to find.

(Left to right:) Bob Haney and Arnold Drake, collaborators on the first “Doom Patrol” story, reunited at a 1990s comics convention. Photo courtesy of Dave Siegel.

waterfall and is Elasti-Woman, later referred to as Elasti-Girl. Any thoughts on how you came up with the concept? DRAKE: One of the characters could stretch like crazy, reduce herself, and do all types of crazy things with her body, and I thought it’d be great if it were a woman. Because women had better bodies. [laughs] Maybe I used Elinor Holmes, the Olympic swimming champion and movie star as a model. But Bruno drew her as quite EuropeanMediterranean. I used to say, “Bruno, you draw with an Italian pencil.” MS: Larry Trainor? For sixty seconds, as Negative Man, he can leave his body. DRAKE: I’m not sure. Again, as I told you, one of the tricks I learned early while working at DC, was that if you came up with a good cover idea, it would invariably sell the story, even if they had a backlog and didn’t need it at the time, they’d buy it and put it away because cover stories were hard to come by. I often came up with a cover idea before I had a story. I think that Larry may have been a cover idea that inspired the character, rather than the other way around. I know I turned in a

DRAKE: That’s good. It will put more money in my five-year-old granddaughter’s pockets. There aren’t too many “Doom Patrol” #1’s around. To me, one of the most fascinating things I learned at the San Diego Comic-Con was when I went to one of the booths of these outfits that had comics information on the Internet. One of the things they do is track the market price of a magazine. They showed me a series of magazines, and then they showed me The Doom Patrol [meaning particularly the My Greatest Adventure issues]. While the other books—created about the same time as “The Doom Patrol”—kept sliding in value, the DP kept rising year after year. It’s very satisfying to me; this is a crass form of immortality. MS: I am really looking forward to a decent hardcover. Having the same artist and writer for all those issues, it’s a great read from the beginning, up until the deaths in #121. Okay: Cliff Steele, the Automaton. DRAKE: That’s what he was called originally, until I saw it was a terrible name. I probably came up with that name. I hate to believe it, but I probably did and, within two issues, I knew it was a terrible name. We decided on Robotman.

Luis Dominguez, cover artist for Warren and Marvel black-&-white mags in the 1970s, did the fullcolor cover for this of Alter Ego—and is seen here working on the Drake-Dominguez graphic novel Benjamin Franklin, Martian, based on a story Arnold wrote for Starstream magazine (an art-page of which is depicted, courtesy of writer and artist). Also shown (slightly cropped) is one of Dominguez’ Vampirella paintings... of which, Arnold says, there are “three in different sizes, plus numerous pencil sketches, all of which are for sale.” Arnold Drake can be contacted through Alter Ego. [Vampirella art ©2002 James Warren; BFM art ©2002 Luis Dominguez & Arnold Drake.]

My Greatest Adventures

physics created the second? But we need silly devices, otherwise you’ve got to sit down and write a page and a half explaining. You don’t need to say that; you can say he can only stay out for a minute. I liked to call it an idea of dealing with it as energy, so that you could break it up and shatter it the way you can shatter energy, and so forth. I went for that. MS: That was what you wrote before the story? DRAKE: I think the cover idea came up immediately after I wrote the story. I did a rough sketch which, later on, based upon the story, became the cover. MS: The first half of the story doesn’t really deal with General Immortus. You could have written all the character introductions, and then written the second part later. DRAKE: Do you find Immortus a satisfying character? MS: I was going to ask about him, actually. In a way, I did, because he was kind of an oddity. DRAKE: I’ll say; he’s only been around a couple of thousand years. MS: There’s another immortal DC villain, by the name of Vandal Savage. DRAKE: When did he come out? MS: Alfred Bester wrote the first story in Green Lantern, first series, #10, in the Golden Age. [NOTE: The cover date was Winter 1943.] DRAKE: That’s early.

This 1965 Doom Patrol page demonstrates Bruno Premiani’s more subdued, realistic, “European” approach to super-hero art. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Jerry Bails and Hames Ware. Robotman’s original name was “Automaton”— which we’ll bet most people read as “Automation.” [©2002 DC Comics.]

MS: This broke earlier, but you didn’t know there was a Golden Age DC character called Robotman. DRAKE: No, Julie Schwartz informed me of that after the first “DP” broke. MS: Your editor at the time, Murray Boltinoff, was your editor throughout the “Doom Patrol” run. He actually, in the 1940s, had done editing on some original “Robotman,” when it was a comedy series drawn by Jimmy Thompson. DRAKE: I don’t know the answer to that, and your question is “Why didn’t he remember?” I don’t think he got too terribly involved with his work. He lived out in the suburbs, before most people lived in the suburbs, and he had his little boy that he was crazy about and his beloved wife Ann. I think that was his life calling. Comics, for Murray, were just a means to that end. MS: Cliff Steele, brain in the metal body? DRAKE: I’m not sure where it came from, because it may have been inspired by the cover idea. All kinds of men were a being within a being, not totally unrelated to Deadman; there’s a connection there. The whole thing of separating a form of energy from the body to perform acts, I knew had to be limited. I knew I needed a Kryptonite of some sort, and my Kryptonite was the sixty-second limit, a silly device. What law of

Arnold Drake MS: What’s interesting is that the same time as your Greatest Adventure #80, Vandal Savage was on the stands fighting The Flash, revived again by Gardner Fox. The Golden Age Flash and Silver Age Flash were fighting him. So you had your immortal character, all wrinkled, and this other character, on the newsstands. But from what you’re saying, you didn’t know. DRAKE: I thought up this whole concept of a guy who is as old the hills, almost literally, and having all of that power, because knowledge is power. He had centuries of learning. I thought his contrast should be an old, shriveled, decaying body, and the strength of the mind contrasted and worked very well. But I think you just got the feeling of weakness from the old guy, which was not the idea. Three nice Premiani splashes (from My Greatest Adventure #82-84).

In a letter to an Italian fan, Arnold Drake wrote in April 2000 concerning Italianborn artist Bruno Premiani: “I met Bruno in late ’62, when he began at DC. Murray Boltinoff, a pipe-smoking editor, greatly admired Bruno’s work. But there was something in it that puzzled him. He showed me some samples and I think I shouted, “Wow!” (The US equivalent of “Eureka!”) “I think that what disturbed Murray in Bruno’s art was its “foreignness” (Senator McCarthy would have said, “Un-American”!”). But that’s precisely what made me cry “Wow!” Each time he handed new pages to me, my head shook with wonder. And I said, more than once, “You draw with an Italian pen.” His women were not Betty Grable or even Ingrid Bergman. They were Anna Magnani and Sylvana Mangano. His exquisite attention to detail came from a man who studied anatomy under Leonardo and Michelangelo, lighting with Rembrandt and Rubens, composition from the Chinese, Egyptians, and Greeks, and satire from life. “Bruno and I became good friends... We were both devoted anti-fascists. In my teens, I worked to defend the Republic of Spain against Franco’s troops. In ’42 I volunteered for the US Army and fought in France, Germany, and Austria. But Bruno began far before me. He hated that fake-socialist, Mussolini, once it became clear that Beni was not va bene. When a political cartoonist’s life became too dangerous, he sailed for Argentina, where he gained fame as a political cartoonist and a splendid artist—until Peron, that fake-populist, made freedom of the press his earliest victim. As so Bruno sailed for the USA. One night when he came to my home for dinner, he complained about the resemblance of McCarthyism to Mussolini, Franco, and Peron. I put a finger to his lips and said, ’Shhh! Bruno! Where can you run to now?’ “He was tall and lean. Almost skeletal. A long curved nose looked down at his graying mustache. His eyes were already beginning to desert him and he used various magnifying devices with which to work. I’m sure he must have ended up blind, or close to it. I’m also sure that he never stopped drawing. How does a nearly-blind man draw? By being a rational ascetic: disciplined down to the last wrinkle in his DNA. And by knowing what Bruno has learned early on: that work is life. “One of the proudest possessions in my personal library is the book El Caballo by Bruno and Beatrix Premiani. What Picasso did for the bull, Premiani did for the horse. Anyone who wants to draw horses must have that book. It was almost lost in a fire at my apartment. Bruno would have smiled at that. He was tested by fire more times than most of us.” Thanks, Arnold! Even though we don’t possess a photograph of Bruno Premiani, your word-picture is more than sufficient! But see BP’s self-portrait on p. 17. [Art ©2002 DC Comics; caption text ©2002 Arnold Drake.]

MS: Along with the surreal aspect of the book, and the characters, I thought it worked pretty well. It was unusual, and I think it was maybe a little ahead of its time. DRAKE: You are what I term a “thinking reader,” and if you only write to the thinking reader, you’re not going to have a successful magazine. The non-thinking reader, I believe, said, “He’s an old, decrepit creep.” MS: The Brotherhood of Evil, issue #86, becomes the key group. DRAKE: They’re the standouts, if you want to ask me about Stan Lee… MS: The first question I’m going to ask about the Brotherhood of Evil: Madame Rouge, Monsieur Mallah, and The Brain, then Morden, show up in the first issue, and they go “The American is here!” They’re all French. I was wondering if you had some nasty encounters in Paris.

My Greatest Adventures When My Greatest Adventure officially became The Doom Patrol with issue #86 (March 1964), this page introduced new readers to the group. Cover and interior art by Bruno Premiani. [©2002 DC Comics.]

13 brain, and “There are some things man was not meant to tinker with.” Anyway, Madame Rouge—I don’t recall what it was, but there was something in my background. The Brain was around, and the idea was around. There’s the search for the bizarre: Did I do the gorilla because Mort Weisinger loved gorillas? [imitating Weisinger] “Gorillas! What you want is a gorilla up to his ears in diamonds, gold and cash, and set him on fire. Then, you’ve got a magazine that will sell!” MS: The flaming gorilla! DRAKE: It was bizarre, with the talking gorilla. Mort was right, except that he shouldn’t have been that obsessed with it. It was a walking, talking simian… it was marvelous. The brain in the jar was great. I don’t know if I told you this, but about the same time I was doing The Brain in “Doom Patrol,” I was also writing Jerry Lewis and Bob Hope, and I did a story in which the villain was in a car crash and they could only save one organ, which they put in a fluid solution and he ruled his gang as “Sidney the Kidney”!

LILLIAN: We made very good friends in Paris. DRAKE: We made a friend—Gabi Cruz Santos—in a marvelous way. This was 1953. Our honeymoon. We spent the night with this couple, driving around the city. We made friends with this lady, and still go out to see her a couple of times a year. We spent a month with her in Nice. LILLIAN: That place is like Paradise. DRAKE: We had mostly good experiences in France. We both speak a very primitive French, and we love French culture. I don’t know why I decided to make the villains French. But foreigners are always fair game. In The Flesh Eaters, the movie I wrote and co-produced, I had the villain say “What is it the Arabs say—’Where there is no witness, but there is no crime’?” I did do that with Mallah, The Brain, and Madame Rouge, but I don’t know why I did that. I wanted some foreign color in there. Lillian often said that, with six months in Western Europe, we never set foot in Germany because I knew she would poison the wells. I don’t know why I made them French, but I did. I should have made them German. LILLIAN: I bet I know: it was your French teacher.

In Bob Hope I gave Bob a young fellow to kind of bring up, a nephew, or son of a friend, who was this ultra-bright but ultra-square character. His name was Tad, and Tad was terribly repressed. You never show your emotions, you never, ever show your emotions. Tad would get very, very, very angry, and swallow that. Out of that repression would burst this character called, “Super-Hip,” who played a rock guitar and made fun of a lot of parental authority, and teachers and college professors and so forth, and had marvelous powers. He could turn you into a banana split. That was Super-Hip—he was as disgusting in his unconventionality as Tad was boring in his convention-

DRAKE: I had a French teacher named Madame Blankenstein, who screamed French at us with a German accent. We called her “Madame Frankenstein.” No, in the back of my head, I think Madame Rouge… I guess we’ll come back to it, eventually, and my creating her as I did. You will recall that she was a lot more complicated than we thought she would ever be. MS: Eventually, in #121, she’s responsible for trying to kill The Brain and Monsieur Mallah, and all of them. LILLIAN: Evil creature. DRAKE: He’d been tinkering with her

A scene from the 1964 Drake-scripted movie The Flesh Eaters—and an ad for his co-scripted Who Killed Teddy Bear? Arnold writes that actress “Elaine Stritch, who is finally fully recognized (Tony Award, 2002), said in a recent interview that Who Killed Teddy Bear? is now a ’cult classic.’ Somebody asked me to define ’cult classic.’ I said that the only thing I was certain of was that the writer must die poor.” [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

Arnold Drake hundred dollars a week, every week. Once in a while he’d have a big win, but that’s mostly what was happening. I know, because we had a telephone in the writers’ bullpen, and Larry used that to make his bets. It was a pay telephone. A very classy operation. Nadel would come and call his bets in on the telephone. He needed to be out of the earshot of the other editors.

alism. What I was building was this bunch of monsters in Jerry Lewis, and Super-Hip in Bob Hope. When the time came to renew those contracts with Hope and Lewis, they decided not to because it was costing so much it was making the magazines unprofitable. If they could remove that cost, the magazines would have been profitable, so they should have said, “Let’s call one Benedict Arnold High, and call the other Super-Hip. Suddenly Hope and Lewis are off the payroll and the books are making money.” But the front office didn’t see it that way.

MS: So you’d get to hear what he was doing on a daily basis. DRAKE: One of the things that was driving Larry was that he was a very sick guy: he had a very sick heart. Larry once said to somebody, “When I die, the s***’s really going to hit the fan.” Nobody understood what he meant by that. What he was saying was, “I know I’m going to die soon, so what the hell do I care?” He did. He went to tie his shoelace one morning, and never finished the job.

MS: I was going to ask if the people in Bob and Jerry’s camp were trying to stick their fingers in the plotting and editing. DRAKE: The first issue of Bob Hope that I wrote climbed sixteen points in one issue. That was horrendous—who had ever heard of sixteen points in one issue? Irwin Donenfeld, who only had an interest in things like jumping up sixteen points, rushed inside and said, “Whatever you’re doing with Bob Hope that made it jump up sixteen points, let me look at it!” While we were looking at the insides, he was looking at the cover, where there was a very decorous young woman on there. He said “That’s it! You’ve got to put one of those on every cover because that’s what sells!” That’s as much as he interfered. That was his leadership.

This full-page house ad, which ran in many DC comics in the early-to-mid-1960s, shows a company pushing both super-heroes and comedy—with Arnold Drake writing four of the characters shown (Bob Hope, Jerry Lewis, and The Fox and the Crow). But changes were in the air... [©2002 DC Comics.]

What we also found were pieces of blank paper with a title on the cover, stapled together as though they were a script, things like that. The guy was obviously in a great deal of pain. The figure I heard was something like $80,000. In today’s money, that was something close to a million dollars. I don’t know how true it was. [Editor] George Kashdan may have come upon the figure, because George’s brother was the treasurer. George edited for a while, and he also wrote a number of stories.

MS: Were you working closely with Bob Oksner and Neal Adams? DRAKE: Very closely with Bob, but I think Neal was too busy to work closely with anybody. Neal was going off in all directions, but Oksner was concentrating on what he did. I loved working with Bob, because everytime I wrote a script I knew he was going to give me back more than I had put into the script. And he drew terrific women! MS: I want to ask about [DC humor editor] Larry Nadel, and what you knew about that controversy, and how he was the editor and cooking the books. DRAKE: My thoughts on that are that Larry was a very unhappy human being, which doesn’t make him too unusual. His unhappiness took the form of a dreadful gambling habit. It’s very much like alcoholism, very much the same nature. It’s a way of escaping life, is what it is. Instead of drinking, he bet. The consequence was he racked up an enormous debt. He was losing five, six, seven

When this was reported, the first thought was, “Let’s find out what he did with his books.” We started going through his files and started to discover discrepancies, such as scripts for which he’d paid himself three times: he wrote the script in ’56 and then reprinted it in ’58 and paid himself again, and then he’d change the title and pay himself again, and so on.

MS: What did Kashdan edit? DRAKE: House of Mystery, House of Secrets, “Mark Merlin,” “Eclipso”… and probably a lot more. George and I were fairly good friends, and George’s brother was the treasurer. It may have been that George’s brother let it drop at lunch one day, maybe. But that was the figure I heard.

Now I understood why Larry didn’t have me writing for him. I’d said to him, “Larry, you’re doing one of the darnedest things: You’re editing books that are melding comedy and mystery

My Greatest Adventures and comedy and adventure. I love that.” He said, “I don’t need writers.” [laughs] And he didn’t—he needed lawyers! What he was doing, unfortunately, was getting artists to do the scripts, as well as the art, and he paid himself for the scripts. Again, I see him as being a very depressed man who was doing his best to keep his head above water. Another Drake co-creation was Stanley and His Monster. [©2002 DC Comics.]

MS: So Nadel’s gone, and Murray Boltinoff takes over his books, and that’s when you

got the humor books.

MS: Throughout the book. When it’s his face, it’s okay, but when it’s his and yours pasted over… there’s something wrong here. It had a great Joe Orlando cover. DRAKE: Talented man. Very talented man. MS: I forgot to ask you—when you were doing Doom Patrol, you were also doing Challengers of the Unknown. Out of your whole career, I was curious, did you ever work with Jack Kirby? DRAKE: Yeah. LILLIAN: We visited him. DRAKE: At his place in Thousand Oaks, California. MS: What did you work with Kirby on? Do you remember? DRAKE: The earliest stuff was House of Mystery. And Challengers. MS: Before the incident with Jack Schiff, while he [Kirby] was still working at DC. That makes sense. We actually don’t have records of which issues you did with Kirby. DRAKE: I don’t recall the “incident” with Schiff.

DRAKE: Yes. Jerry Lewis, Bob Hope, The Fox and the Crow, Dobie Gillis, and my own creation: Stanley and His Monster. My daughter loved it. She was about six years old then. Pam learned to read with comics. She was 21⁄2 when she started. Stanley and His Monster was her very favorite!

MS: What happened was that he got, through a contact, a chance to do a strip called Sky Masters... DRAKE: Ah, yes. I remember now. Schiff was asked to write it, and gave it to the Wood brothers [Dave and Dick] instead.

MS: We should probably close out The Doom Patrol. This, of course, is the issue [holds up DP #121]. What’s that about your head being removed? Here you were, and here’s Murray’s head on your body. [See p. 17.]

MS: He wanted 4%, and there was a court case over it, and Kirby said he was made to sign under duress. Jack Kirby never talked about it after the case—he lost—the strip folded eventually, and he never went back to DC until long after Schiff was gone.

DRAKE: When Bruno was ordered to do it, I wasn’t there, but I can tell you the dialogue: they said, “We need it right now.”

DRAKE: I remember the incident with the strip, with turning it over to the Wood brothers. Believe me, Schiff was constitutionally unable to

He’d have said, “I must redraw the whole thing.” “No, put Murray’s head on that body.” Bruno would have surely said [Drake talks with a heavy accent], “I weel do it, but it will be very poor.” That’s what Bruno always said. Bruno was an ethical man about his work. But he was also practical, so if you pushed his ethics to the wall, he would say, “I weel do it, but it weel be very poor.” MS: I always thought that this was pretty interesting, because there’s this really odd shadow drawn here, which I always assumed was an odd paste-up deal, but he puts it on him, as well. DRAKE: Consistency. I never noticed. Yeah, I think that’s what it was: consistency. Be sure that Bruno didn’t do that, because he wouldn’t do it, even after saying, “I will do it, but it will be very poor,” so somebody from the art department like Sol Harrison, probably. The premier “Doom Patrol” story was first reprinted in the super-size Batman #238 (Jan. 1972), behind a cover by sometime Drake collaborator Neal Adams. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Richard Martines. Y’know, they wouldn’t have needed a wraparound cover if it hadn’t been for the Legion of Super-heroes! [©2002 DC Comics.]

Arnold Drake Joe Orlando’s superlative cover for the final issue of the original Doom Patrol (#121)—repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Jerry Bails & Hames Ware. Arnold Drake’s story, too, was a great one: rather than being forced to choose whether to sacrifice their lives to save an entire planet, the Doom Patrol had to decide whether they’d do so to save just one particular town—one inhabited by very real humans, rather than an abstract “humanity.” They chose death, and died true heroes. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Kirby was at Curtis’ apartment one night and he read some of this play he’d written. It was pretty funny. I don’t remember a thing about it except that it was funny. Kirby had all the tools of an artist, and he had that passion that you see in Bob Kane’s very early work, because that’s all that Kane’s early work was: passion. What Bob Kane put on paper was raw emotion. What Kirby did was refine that through the total skills of an artist and a magnificent designer. MS: I get that “Deadman” was ’67 and Stanley and His Monster was ’68. DRAKE: I thought Stanley was first. MS: That may be the case with The Fox and the Crow [in which “Stanley and His Monster” was introduced as a backup feature]. Who was the editor on that? DRAKE: Murray. MS: It seemed to me that you had creative leeway with Stanley and His Monster. Was the structure of the DC office changed that much, or was Murray Boltinoff comfortable with you? DRAKE: Boltinoff was the kind of editor who said, “You’ve been around quite a while, you know how we do this, you know story. If you have the core of a good idea, go ahead and do it. I don’t want to sit here and dictate, or even edit your material before it’s written,” which is what Schiff and Weisinger did. They pre-edited your strip. MS: But he wanted his face on Doom Patrol? cheat anyone. Perhaps Kirby, fed up with having been screwed so often by publishers, just lashed out at the next one to come along, and that was Schiff.

DRAKE: No. Irwin Donenfeld did that. I had reached an agreement with Donenfeld, at the end of my working as a long-term freelancer, that I thought the Stan Lee era was now. It was no longer on its way, as I’d

LILLIAN: The Wood boys had a weird reputation. DRAKE: Finger was there. Why didn’t he give it to Finger? Alfred Bester was around, Gardner Fox was around. I’m not clear as to his choice of the Woods. That’s how the whole thing started. Jack [Schiff] wanted his 4%—for what? MS: He had put together the package. The deal was brought to him. DRAKE: I see; he called in Kirby. MS: It was an odd thing. Kirby refused to talk about it from that point forward. DRAKE: Extraordinary talent, Kirby, and also a pretty good writer. Jack wrote a three-act, Broadwaytype comedy. He was a friend of Jack Curtis, who co-produced Flesh Eaters and was my best friend. So

The original art team for Sky Masters was Jack Kirby and Wally Wood. That’s what we call starting off at the top! These dailies for Oct. 31/Nov. 1, 1959, along with the entire run of the newspaper strip, have been reprinted in The Complete Sky Masters of the Space Force, published by Pure Imagination, Inc. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

My Greatest Adventures said a couple years before. Now it’s clear that we have to change the way we do business. I’d been living in England, and had just gotten back in ’67. I was writing from there. He said, “You haven’t seen the changes that we’ve made.” I said “I’ve seen them, and as far as I’m concerned, what you’ve done is you’ve changed the covers, and they’re much stronger now and they’re selling more.” I even went so far as to make a blatant remark that I was trying to shake him up with: “Don’t you know that Carmine is trying everything he can to make this thing up-to-date artistically, but it’s not up-to-date as far as script. You have got yourself a Jack Kirby, but you also need a Stan Lee. I’m offering myself.”

DRAKE: That was Miller. MS: Did you have any aerialist in mind? DRAKE: Let’s start with, “Why was he a circus trapeze artist?” I was out to do a series about a guy who dies and his spirit lives on in another form. But how do you depict that? It should look like something you associate with death. And I instantly thought of a skeleton or a skull in a shroud of some sort. Well, who the hell walks around wearing something that looks like a skeleton? Somebody in show business! Maybe Evel Knievel was in the back of my mind; there’s this guy who, every night, courts death, and wears something dramatic. He is Deadman; he calls himself that, that’s his stage name. We’re not simply calling this wraith Deadman: that’s what he was known as in life.

That shook him. What he finally said was, “I’d like time to consider it.” I asked, “How long?” He said, “Six months”! I knew that much delay meant, “Not on your life!” So I said, “Okay, let’s give it six months. Meanwhile, I want a 30% rate increase.” I was prepared to settle for 25%. Perhaps even 20%.

MS: This is another question Rich [Morrissey] called and asked about: In the first stories, “Boston” Brand is in quotes, as in a nickname. Later on, it became his actual name, and his brother is Cleveland Brand. Was it intended to be his real name, or a nickname?

He said, “Okay.” Which surprised the hell out of me. So I pushed the envelope a jot more. “On the next check?” He said, very softly, “On the next check.” But, of course, the next check did not have it. Then I knew I was being played DRAKE: It was intended to be a for a shnook. There was no future nickname, and then I said, for me there. So that was the end of “That’s silly.” my tenure at good old DC. Anyway, Carmine did have a grasp MS: Did you read any stories of how to work the new market, after you left? and the books he put out began to DRAKE: I read two of them: do that. No more “Fireman One was pretty good, and one I Farrells.” What I learned from it hated. [EDITOR’S NOTE: For was, “Talent is only as strong as the a proposed Arnold Drake publisher’s ability to recognize it.” Deadman graphic novel, see Irwin had no such ability. Herb later this issue.] Seigel, Harry Donenfeld’s boyhood friend, was DC’s office manager. MS: In the first story there’s One night, over a bottle of Johnny kind of an aerial shot where you Walker Black Label, he told me this see Boston’s dead, and one of Bruno Premiani’s splash for Doom Patrol #121. Premiani drew himself as the story: when Irwin was barmitzthe characters killed him. It was artist, but writer Arnold Drake was replaced with editor Murray Boltinoff vahed, Harry gave him a $20 bill to fleshed out by another writer (according to Arnold, by order of the co-publisher). Can we spell "petty," spend on himself. Irwin spent 25 that it was someone in the boys and girls? Thanks to Jon B. Cooke. [©2002 DC Comics.] cents and brought back $19.75 to audience, The Hook, who had Harry. Herb said, “That’s when nothing to do with those initial circus characters. Did you intend for it Harry knew his son would always be a problem!” [laughs] to be one of the originals? [See p. 25.] MS: Were you in London when you created Deadman? DRAKE: No. I wrote #1 [meaning the first “Deadman” story, which appeared in Strange Adventures #205, Oct. 1967] and got an okay on storyline #2 while I was still here. #2 has been credited to Jack Miller, the editor. Jack apparently was desperate for cash. He would die of cancer a little later, but I don’t think he knew that then. There’s an old writer’s trick that I employed in story #2: in the story, the bike-gang’s meeting place is “Jack’s Shack.” Now, when I was at the University of Missouri, we hung out at a beer joint called—surprise!—“Jack’s Shack.” So that’s proof-positive that “Deadman” #2 is my script. I have never been paid for the reprints on that. I think it’s been reprinted three or four times. MS: I was about to ask if you created that for Miller or Schiff.

DRAKE: I didn’t bother scratching my head over this. When the time came to answer it, I’d answer it. One of a writer’s devices is to paint himself into a corner and then fight his way out. MS: Rich also asked why Deadman didn’t use his power to get into the person who killed him, walk into the police station, and confess. But he really didn’t know who killed him; it wasn’t relevant. DRAKE: Actually he did do that in story #2. But you can’t use that too often. Of course, that’s the end of Deadman, once he finds out who killed him. He’s evened the score. Weisinger was very fond of saying, “Why didn’t the wolf eat Little Red Riding Hood right out there in the woods? If he had, there’d be no story.” LILLIAN: He had great wisdom.

Arnold Drake Arnold writes: “This Deadman sketch [on right] was my first attempt. The second was a bit more human. But it was Infantino who came up with the right blend for a living corpse. My third try was a suggested cover literally drawn on a paper napkin and was a fair precursor of the eventual cover. Sketch #2 no longer exists. But that napkin is hiding in my files somewhere and I hope to find it soon.” And if you do, Arnold, you know we’d love to print it! The published cover of Strange Adventures #205 (Oct. 1967) at left, of course, is by Carmine Infantino & George Roussos; it and the entire original run of “Deadman” tales from 1967-70 have been beautifully reprinted by DC in the hardcover Deadman Collection at $75—and it’s worth every penny. [Sketch ©2002 Arnold Drake; cover art ©2002 DC Comics.]

MS: Phantom Stranger, #26 was it? You did a brief stint where you had Deadman cross over? DRAKE: I believe I also did Dr. —? MS: Dr. Thirteen? DRAKE: I just remember it was a character who was a very evil doctor. MS: Dr. Thirteen was a character who would debunk ghosts. His whole schtick every story was to prove “It was a fake.” DRAKE: He was deep.

DRAKE: That’s a self-consciousness that sets in for many people who are writing for kids. They tell the kids, “I don’t really believe this. I

LILLIAN: Did you tell him the story when Weisinger told one of the writers to write a script? DRAKE: It was told so many times. There’s a story I heard from two or three sources; each one says he was there. I was there during one. But each guy says there were others. There are two possibilities: (1) As we often do, somebody heard a story and made it his own, or (2) Mort said this more than once. When Mort got a line that he thought was hilarious, he would just keep repeating it. What he said was—I think it was to a guy named Jerry Coleman, who was doing a lot of writing for Mort, and who I think used to stick pins in a Weisinger doll [laughs]—at any rate, he said to Jerry one day, “I have to go to the bathroom. Do you mind if I wipe myself with your script?” And as I said, this was told by two or three different writers. I believe he said it over and over again, as if it was one of the most inventive lines anyone ever came up with— including Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, and Mark Twain. MS: Deadman appeared in The Forever People. Did you ever see that story? DRAKE: I wish I could; I’d love to see what Kirby did.

(Left:) Neal Adams re-inked the second (his first) “Deadman” story (from Strange Adventures #206, Nov. 1967) in his current style for DC’s 350-page Deadman Collection. The original George Roussos-embellished version was reprinted, as seen here, in World’s Finest Comics #223 (May-June 1974). The first page of Arnold’s script for this tale is shown above. [©2002 DC Comics.]

My Greatest Adventures know this is not reality, and I want you to know this is not reality.” If a kid wants to dream, let him dream. MS: I forgot to ask—Bob Haney did some work on My Greatest Adventure #80. What did he exactly do?

DRAKE: Boltinoff said to me “Give me new characters.” I came in on a Thursday or Friday and said, “This is what I want to do: a guy in a wheelchair, elongated woman.” I think that I had Robotman at that time. Murray said, “Write it,” and I said, “I think we need one more character,” and Boltinoff said, “Go get it, and get it in as fast as you can, by Monday or Tuesday.”

Haney was in the hall, and I asked him if he had an assignment from Kanigher, and he said no. That was not good. Weekend assignments were important to us. I said, “I have to hurry up with this new idea, and I need a new character. Let’s sit down and write it together, and you write half and I’ll write half.” I think it was the Larry Trainor character we collaborated on.

MS: He had that big job. DRAKE: He was getting ready to. He was working as closely as he could with Liebowitz. He had often said to me, “Why didn’t you come to me? We would have worked something out.” MS: That was a rough business. Where were the original meetings held? DRAKE: Maybe it was Bill Finger’s place, but I’m not sure of that. MS: Then things got all wound up. DRAKE: We asked if Liebowitz was in, and he agreed to that, and the whole group was there. We were there to say that, “We would like to talk with you, as a group. But that’s cumbersome. We would like to have one or two representatives deal with you in the future.” MS: I can see the stress in reliving this. DRAKE: What Liebowitz did was say, “You all got a $2 raise.” In those days, a $2 raise was 15 to 20%, but when you base it on what the figure was…! That was a Liebowitz tactic, and the other part of the tactic was to stall. Liebowitz’s thing was that there were a lot of problems involving copyright and ownership. One of the things we’d said to him was that we wanted to discuss reprint rights, and his worry was problems involving protecting their copyrights while still sharing with the talent. I said, “I’m sure that a good copyright attorney can solve this, it’s not one of the world’s most difficult problems.”

MS: I guess we’re up to the writers’ union attempt. Now for that can of worms! DRAKE: A bunch of us were talking about the conditions there. The greatest generosity DC ever offered me was to permit me to pay for my own health insurance on their plan. This was their generosity. Standard price, but I was going to get the advantage of being on a corporate plan, which meant I would save a few dollars. I don’t think any of the other writers were on that plan. In general, our feeling was that we were being terribly exploited. The artists were, too, but not as much as the writers were. We felt we should ask the front office to let us deal as a group, rather than as individuals. The problem there was that one writer was being played off against another, back and forth. We were writing for assignments we were not assured of, so we were in competition with each other. There was a house policy to not tell another writer what your rate was, in particular a rate increase. The whole attitude was to keep the writers as separate from the organization as possible, and as separate from each other. We understood that that was one of the reasons the management didn’t want it, and it would be wise to let one or two of us speak for the group. We had a couple of meetings: It was Gardner [Fox], John Broome, Bill Finger, Dave Wood… MS: The list I have is Arnold Drake, of course, Haney, Finger, Herron, Binder, and also I have Schaffenberger. DRAKE: Schaffenberger was the only artist willing to talk about it. The artists felt, “I’m an artist, not a laborer. And you guys are talking about labor issues.” MS: Did Carmine show up at the early meetings? DRAKE: He might have shown up at the first one; I’m not sure. Later I talked to him on the phone and he said, “It’s better if I not attend because I’m on the ’other side.’” He was getting worried.

A Luis Dominguez-penciled-and-inked page—prior to painting/finishing—done for “Tripping Out,” a story scripted for Heavy Metal by Arnold Drake. It may be out by the time this issue comes on sale. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

Arnold Drake

LILLIAN: There was no workers’ solidarity.

Arnold says that he came up with this Jonah Hex illo idea, and Luis Dominguez executed it, for “Walt Parrish, who has a unique collection of sketches by many top comics artists all on that one theme, The Hanging Man. I wanted the woman to be saying, ’Call me squaw just one more time, white man!’ But Walt said, ’No balloon!’” [Art ©2002 Luis Dominguez; Jonah Hex TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

He said, “You’re right. I’m going to talk to my attorney about it.” With $2 and the promise that he would find a way to work something out with us, we walked out. Perhaps it didn’t break the back of what we had done, but it certainly sapped it of vitality. Years later Carmine told me that Liebowitz instantly called his golf-buddy, Martin Goodman, the boss at Marvel, and warned him that some writers were trying to start a union. MS: Over the next couple of years, you were at Marvel, Broome wasn’t sending in scripts anymore, and Fox was only writing novels. DRAKE: You’ve got a couple of things happening at once. Was it because they felt they didn’t want a bunch of disgruntled writers on staff? You could probably attribute it to that. Were we going through a major change in the market, and therefore the need for major changes in product, and they were beginning to think we needed to shape up? “Who among these guys are going to be able to take us to the next plateau?” They just kind-of gradually dropped everybody. I don’t think there’s a single answer to the question. But knowing we felt very exploited, of course, contributed to it.

In recent years Arnold Drake has been active in the volunteer Veterans Bedside Network, “a nationwide organization of show business professionals [who] circulate among eight metropolitan area VA [Veterans Administration] hospitals with TV camera and radio equipment, letting the patients entertain themselves through the hospitals’ closed-circuit radio and TV hookups.” He also drew this program illo for its “Hospital Show Tours #9,” which featured the music of Fats Waller and Duke Ellington. [Art ©2002 Arnold Drake.]

MS: Unfortunately, it sounds like the structure from the beginning. It would have seemed, in today’s world, especially in the arts, that you’d have been able to do that. There’s a different thing going on now.

DRAKE: You could do it now, since you don’t need it. We couldn’t do it then because we desperately did. It’s like, you can only borrow money from a bank if you can prove you don’t need it. MS: You didn’t have medical, you didn’t have reprint rights. The copyright laws have thankfully gotten better for writers, post-1976. DRAKE: At any rate, it’s a different world. Ours was different from the world before us. There were guys who, if they were still alive, would think what we had in the ’60s was heaven compared to what they had in the ’40s.

MS: Believe it or not, the tape light’s flashing, so that’s it! Thank you very much. LILLIAN: Thank you very much. DRAKE: Buenos noches! Or, as my people say, “Buenos buchas!”

“This ’genuine’ Doom Patrol Club certificate,” says Arnold, “was done on a computer by good friend and comics buff Al Krackow.” The four good friends in the photo (l. to r.: Hal Sherman, Jerry Robinson, Seymour Reit, & Arnold Drake) worked between them on classic “Star Spangled Kid,” “Batman,” “Casper the Friendly Ghost,” “Doom Patrol,” et al.). [Doom Patrol art ©2002 DC Comics.]

A Memo to DC’s Publisher

A Memo To DCs Publisher-A Window on the Silver Age of Comics by Arnold Drake [EDITOR’S NOTE: Some time after the preceding interview was taped by Marc Svensson, Arnold Drake located a carbon of the majority of the memo he had written to DC’s co-publisher, apparently on February 3, 1966. Arnold writes: “The memo to Irwin Donenfeld was 7 pages long, but this is all I’ve been able to find. It’s historically interesting if incomplete. Irwin’s reaction to my belief that Marvel was about to give DC real competition was, ’You’re full of s*** as a Christmas turkey! We outsell them 3-to-1!’ The man was not exactly a prophet.” Actually, as John Romita and Ye Editor were aware from their time at DC, the older publishing company had been having meetings about the competition from DC-distributed Marvel as early as summer of 1965—but had decided that Marvel’s secret was the ’bad drawing’ of guys like Kirby and Ditko. The fact that Drake’s memo was given short shrift even half a year later shows much about the mindset at the time. [Now, without further ado, here is the text of the four (of seven) pages of the memo that Arnold Drake sent Alter Ego in 2002— 36 years after it was written, with Arnold’s underlining and other stylizations kept to retain the flavor of the original. The “he” referred to in the second sentence was obviously Stan Lee—and the subtitles are AD’s own. —Roy.]

The Marvel “Miracle” What Marvel was attempting to do began to be apparent about three years ago. They (or rather, he) were bringing “sophistication” to the comics. The antihero was lifted from the hardcover books and slick magazines and brought to the kids. The present idiom was applied, not the idea of bobby soxers and “swing” music and Betty Grable, etc. They combined iconoclasm with nonsequiturs and “in” jokes and got what we call (part of what we call) “camp.”

For Sick magazine, a long-running “shoestring-budget contender for the Mad market” originally started by Joe Simon, Arnold scripted—and did rough story breakdowns for—many features, including a several-part parody of a certain green-skinned Marvel hero in “The Incrudible SULK!” [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

They succeeded for two reasons primarily. First, they were more with what was happening in the country than we were. And perhaps more

important, they aimed their stuff at an age level that had never read comics before in any impressive number—the college level (let’s say ages 16 to 19 or 20). That second fact is important in view of the fewer titles that Marvel publishes. They could afford to aim all (with the exception of the Romance books— and the Westerns, which—by the way—are now “swinging” or beginning to “swing” also) of their titles at this age level and pull an equal number of readers from lower age groups happy to tag along.

If DC’s co-publisher in 1966 wasn’t taking Marvel seriously, his editorial successors were by the mid-’70s or so, as per this story for Sick magazine scripted by Arnold Drake and illustrated by Jack Sparling: a page from a chapter of “Ego-Man”—Stan Boreman, definitely a standin for Stan Lee—while the Marble “child-editor” could be Roy Thomas, Marv Wolfman, Len Wein, Archie Goodwin— or a composite of all four. Most prominent at the B.C. Comics meeting, from left, are caricatures of Joe Orlando, Joe Kubert, Paul Levitz, Murray Boltinoff, and Julius Schwartz—with production manager Jack Adler taking pics while dangling overhead. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

If Marvel had the number of titles that we have, they could not use this approach across the board!

(I believe, if Marvel continues to add titles and finds it wise to begin aiming at the 12 to 10, 10 to 8, and 8 to 5 market, they will not apply the same orientation to these books as to Spiderman, Fantastic-4, etc.)

Zeroing-In On Markets The idea that all our books should swing-like-Marvel is erroneous. Superman and most of the Superman family is and should remain aimed at the lower age levels—5 to 10. Books like Batman and the Flash should be picking up the kids at age 9 or 10 and carrying them forward to 12 or 13. Beginning at about age 14 and carrying them right on up to college level should be books like Metal Men, Doom Patrol, Challengers, Metamorpho, etc. (Adult concepts, adult language; a little cheesecake, a little idol-breaking, a little “think” stuff now and then—plus the grotesqueries and the much-much-bigger-than-life villains, etc.) There is lots of room for disagreement as to precisely which titles belong in which age groups—but that essential notion should be accepted and each book age-slotted in an editor’s mind. There is much to

Arnold Drake year old market? (and up—.) They are aimed at five year olds, true—but at terribly complicated, involved, cerebral five year olds, of which there are only 3 in the whole country. (There used to be 4, but my daughter graduated.) I believe Superman should return to the basics that made it sell. Stories should be simplified. Power should be stressed (bigger panels!) and wordiness eliminated. (This “children’s” book has more words per balloon than almost any of our other mags.) I believe that Jimmy Olsen (the mag) should be aimed at the high end of the 5 to 10 group and perhaps beyond it. The fact that he’s a teen character gives him a shot at the older age groups. True, this has already been tried—Jimmy has been involved with Rock ’N’ Roll groups, teen Honda gangs, etc. But Jimmy’s character and dialogue on his own book is almost undistinguishable from the character and dialogue in the Superman book. He could swing— moderately—but he doesn’t. What the whole Superman line perhaps is suffering from is the fact that the editor is also—in a manner of speaking—a Superman reader. He’s been reading that same character for 25 years. He is tired of the character— understandably— and so he institutes complications and changes for the sake of complications and changes.

recommend restricting each editor to books within one age level (more than one editor would be handling the same level, but no editor would handle more than one—if practical). (Sidelight: I believe when Schwartz edited the science fiction stuff it was slotted almost exclusively in the upper age groups—at least the concepts he touched on were quite complicated for young minds. When Schiff took them over he lowered that level, and that probably did not hurt sales any. But one book in the sci-fic-mystery area might well be aimed at the upper age group—one should swing!)

The Superman Syndrome It was earlier stated that Superman is and should be aimed at its proper market—5 to 10. Yet, despite this, I would be surprised to learn that the Superman family is selling well—or had been for any length of time during the past five years.

“Superman is and should be aimed at its proper market—5 to 10 [years old].” These drawings combine both kid-appeal and artists who had a fan base in an older group: Neal Adams drew the 1970s public service page at left (repro’d from a photocopy of the original art), while in the ’80s Gil Kane had to rein in his own dynamism in these sketches done to be used as animation style sheets (courtesy of David G. Hamilton). [©2002 DC Comics.]

The reason for this is that, while the nature of Superman’s character (simplicity itself—brute strength, astounding speed, near invulnerability) makes him a child’s hero, the nature of the Superman books has grown more and more complicated and convoluted. Character was piled upon character, power upon power, relationship upon relationship until it became truly impossible for the writers, the artists, and the colorers to remember one from another. (The colorers keep a terribly complicated chart for the Superman books... Jerry Siegel constructed an enormous diagram which he pasted to the wall above his typewriter, etc.) Now these are the books which are supposed to be aimed at the five

But the readership of Superman changes totally about every 5 years. The new readers do not come into a new, simple set of characters which they can then watch grow and become interwoven and expanded. They enter a terribly involved world that many of them probably run right out of because of confusion and boredom. In short—shouldn’t we take a leaf from the old book—the original Superman—and just sharpen it up for today’s “hipper” 5 to 10 year olds?

Proposal For A Deadman Graphic Novel

Proposal For A Deadman Graphic Novel by Arnold Drake [EDITOR’S NOTE: In 1999 Arnold Drake submitted his own proposal for a graphic novel [or “prestige-format book”] starring Deadman. He himself feels “the aborted proposal... is of interest primarily for the flashback to Boston Brand’s origins as a circus aerialist.” However, we feel the whole proposal is of definite interest—after all, it’s by the man who first thought up the whole concept of Deadman... so we’re presenting it in its entirety, with only a bit of minor “bleeping” here and there of the original. It’s ©2002 by Arnold Drake, but of course Deadman is TM & ©2002 by DC Comics. —Roy.]

DEADMAN “Revenge is the purest human emotion— because it’s never watered down by mortality, ethics or humanity!” Boston Brand (a.k.a. “DEADMAN”) Deadman is conceived here as a 96-page graphic novel. Some 20-25 pages are a retelling of the first two stories, the origin of Deadman and his first attempt to find his killer. (In the spring of 1967, I had actually conceived of the two as one story—and I might have squeezed it into 24 pages—but Jack Miller, a brand new editor, had inherited a lot of inventory that he had to dump. So only 17 pages were available.) I briefly discussed with Miller a second development of Deadman’s saga, beginning with Book-3. He literally sucked wind and said, “Let’s do it!” But not until Book-4. He wanted Book-3 to repeat the basic proposition: Boston pursues his killer. (Bennet Cerf said, “If you know a good story, keep telling it.” Miller was an unconscious Cerfite. And a lovely guy who left us 30 years too soon!) The question was a simple one: where does Deadman hang his hood when he’s not violating other folks’ bodies? Obviously in some nether world—even if it’s just a stark, uninhabited plane. SOOO—let’s go deal with the afterlife, right? In 1999, a simple creative challenge. But in 1967 Miller was afraid even to submit the title, DEADMAN, to the Comics Code. With moral support from Infantino, I talked him into it. Okay, there is the other plane to which Boston must constantly return and LITERALLY report-in: a stadium-sized room in black-andwhite with walls covered by 10,000 TV monitors—watching 10,000 places on Earth and constantly changing their subjects. The banks of high-powered computers, run by a vast staff dressed completely in black and white, can zoom in on a single man or woman. The only color there is brought by “visitors”—like Deadman. The man to whom Boston reports (a thin-lipped pasty-face with a corporate ledger for a heart), officially titled “Number Nine,” is called— behind his back—TBC, The Bean Counter. We have met this suck-*ss in every corporation, graduating class, or army barracks we’ve inhabited. Even the wisest bosses suffer him—because he gets the ugly jobs done. He also gets his way—about almost everything. Is power his c*ck? Yes. But he also believes he is right about what’s good for everyone. (As do all saints and dictators.) Number Nine “knows” one thing well: Bostron Brand is a fake who should not have been granted Rama Kushna’s grace. But the department

This illustrated article about Deadman (it also covered Art Spiegelman’s Pulitzerwinning Maus) appeared, Arnold Drake tells us, in “a Russo-American newspaper.” [Infantino, Adams, & Roussos art ©2002 DC Comics; Maus art ©2002 Art Spiegelman.]

Arnold Drake FLASHBACK TO BOSTON’S BACKGROUND: First-born of carnival workers and orphaned at 12 by a church fire, Boston made a deal: he swapped room-and-board for himself, brother Cleveland, 6, and sister Martha, 4 (named for the cities they were born in, the last [being] Martha’s Vineyard) in return for virtual enslavement to the carnival. No formal education, but well self-taught: ten new words tacked to his shaving mirror every day, etc. Got laid at 13 by the bearded lady—whose beard was a fake.

boss, Number One, is a bleeding-heart who is often taken in by the Boston Brands. And time and again Number Nine has saved Number One from such errors. Number Nine can’t nullify the smile that Number One has shown on Deadman. But he can use his agents to follow Deadman to Earth and see to it that he dies again—this time, permanently. NOTE: We will avoid most religious objections by never depicting more of this “other world” than the giant control room. Boston’s questions about the rest of “the spread” receive the same answer from Number Nine: “That information is on a needto-know basis, and you don’t need to know, Brand!”

Studied every turn in the carny, including a highwire act, a mere 15 feet above ground. In New Orleans the boss fires the act, because he won’t work higher without a net. Boston, 14, auditions 50 feet up. The boss says, “Get a costume and the act is yours!”

Hence, whenever Deadman is operating on Earth, he faces the threat of his immediate situation and the added danger of Number Nine’s agents. These two, Numbers 89 and 124, are softspoken, genteel, top-drawer Mafia. Boston has an ally here: a kind of glorified messenger who escorts Boston back and forth between the worlds and who hates Number Nine. He is “Buster”— and he might very well be Buster Keaton. As meek and powerless as he seems, he often plucks Deadman off an Earthly hook.

Mardi Gras: floats and costumes everywhere. Boston buys a crude skeleton costume for $3 (the seller escapes in the crowd buck naked) and creates makeup to match. But the name is born that night. As he begins climbing to his wire:

Arnold Drake’s second “Deadman” story—often incorrectly credited to editor Jack Miller, who did begin writing the strip with the third tale—re-told the Strange Adventures hero’s origin. In the graphic novel, Arnold meant to add far more background detail. Art by Neal Adams and George Roussos. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Boston also has a female ally: Tatiana, a beautiful creature who pretends non-interest in him because he is “a man without a number,” and will remain so till his job on Earth is done.

THE ADVENTURE ON EARTH: Boston hooks up with Sam Jackson, a Black Vietnam vet (6 years as a POW). In a VA hospital since 1974 for schizophrenic-paranoia, Sam made the Guinness Book of Records for vetting and writing up 968 world conspiracies. Last week he escaped “accidental” death 3 times. “They gotta kill me ’cause I know too much,” says Sam. “Typical paranoid delusions,” say the doctors. “Typical psycho-bull****!” says Deadman. But of the 968 major conspiracies in his “file,” which one is trying to kill Sam Jackson? Answer: “The Cellular Phone Industry” (Lectrola, Inc., of the USA, Nipon-Cel of Tokyo, Rikaphon of Sweden, etc.). His research has raised a disturbing question: when a million cellular radio transmitters are bombarding all our major cities with an infinite amount of radio energy, what will be the effect on our brains? Not just the individual cell-phoner. Everyone!

BARKER: What d’ya want us to call you, kid? BOSTON: Uhhhhhh! I don’ know. BARKER: Come up with a

name now or you’re a dead man! BOSTON: (EYES BURNING LIKE TWIN STARS) Yeahhhhhhh! The act is a smash. Boston gets an offer to leave the moth-eaten carnival for a small circus. The three Brands grow up with that circus and Boston becomes part-owner. (This story is told by Lorna, now owner of the circus, who grew up with Boston.) ABOUT DEADMAN’S USE OF HIS POWER: Among other things, he invests his spirit in the body of a beautiful woman and is forced to flatten a groper. “She” also walks into a Men’s Room by force of habit... He deposits himself in a cat’s body to get info from the old lady who owns the cat—and 19 others, all of which want to sniff his ***... He becomes a baby and, at the end of the sequence, vomits milk on the guy who’s been talking baby-talk to him. Those are the bare bones of the DEADMAN GRAPHIC NOVEL. As Garson Kanin said (through the marvelous mug of Spencer Tracy): “There’s not much meat on them bones, but what’s there is CHERCE!”

Go Western, Young Man

Go Western Young Man A Memoir of Western Publishing by ARNOLD DRAKE [Reprinted from Robin Snyder’s The Comics! Vol. 12, No. 7, July 2001. ©2002 Arnold Drake.] In 1971 I began writing at Western Publishing. My passport was nineteen years of writing “Batman,” “Plastic Man,” “Lois Lane,” House of Mystery, “Tommy Tomorrow,” The X-Men, “Space Ranger,” and creating the first graphic novel, It Rhymes with Lust (1950), as well as “Deadman” and The Doom Patrol. But Western proved to be another fish entirely. (We’ll dissect the fish later.) The building at 3rd Avenue and 50th Street was named for Western. (In New York, if you’ll guarantee rental of three floors or more, you can name a building after Adolf Hitler. Of course, you’ll have to keep replacing the windows.) The editor-in-chief, he of apple cheeks, inch-deep dimples, and eyes that smiled behind wire-rimmed glasses, was Wally Green. His dad,

“Bud” Green, was a top lyric writer and early partner of Harry Warren (who had more songs on the Hit Parade than Berlin, Kern, Gershwin, or Porter; coincidentally, in 1979 I wrote Harry Warren’s Lullaby of Broadway, a musical blend of his life and some forty songs). Having two songwriting brothers helped personalize my contact with Wally, beginning a friendship that continued long after I left Western. My first working editor there, Paul Kuhn, assigned me to write a “mystery” title: Boris Karloff’s Tales of Mystery, Dark Shadows, The Twilight Zone, or Grimm’s Ghost Stories. Pressure to fill that monthly menu was

Arnold writes that this cover for an issue of Western’s Grimm’s Ghost Stories is “a Luis Dominguez cover for a Drake story; original cover sketch by Drake. We have been working together for 35 years! Our secret? Nobody else would abide either one of us!” [©2002 Western Publishing, Inc.]

In 1968-69 Arnold scripted various comics for Marvel, among them an eight-issue run of the original X-Men—including two stories illustrated by Jim Steranko (this scene is from #50, cover-dated Nov. 1968) and the tale that introduced Alex Summers, Cyclops’ brother (the future Havok), as per these panels from #54 (March ’69), with art by Don Heck and Vince Colletta. [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Arnold Drake II (General Patton’s Third Army, Battle of the Bulge, etc.), I was more than sympathetic to the GI cause. I remained a volunteer for twenty years, seven of those as National Executive Director. Soon after I got there, Wally suggested I take a crack at Little Lulu. I said, “Great!” I’d written most of the DC humor titles (The Fox and the Crow, The Adventures of Jerry Lewis, The Adventures of Bob Hope, The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis, and my favorite, Stanley and His Monster). Wally urged I do storyboards rather than typed manuscripts. I didn’t need much encouraging. I’d been a cartoonist wannabe since boyhood. For ten years I did almost all the Lulus, plus many backup features. I worked on “Heckle and Jeckle,” “Dudley Do-Right,” “Silly Disney,” “Rocky and Bullwinkle,” “Hashimoto San,” Bugs Bunny, O.G. Whiz, Tweety and Sylvester, “Peabody’s Improbable History,” Yosemite Sam, and some I’ve forgotten. I still have many of those storyboards—and 700+ comic books. I grew smugly proud of my multi-talents, drawing Lulu with one hand, typing Star Trek with the other. That dumb pride forged one of my “great” lines. At a fan meeting in L.A., I told how, after I left DC, Murray needed three writers to replace me on the comedy books: one to plot, one for dialogue, a third on the gag lines. A voice rose from the audience: “That’s right! I was one of them!” “How does it feel to be one-third of me?” I chortled. Then I recognized the man I had just put down—the great Sergio Aragonés. See what I mean about “dumb”? Though Western was richer than DC or Marvel, it paid us about 30% less. But, without competition from the editors, we worked much faster. Self-exploitation improved the rates. But the low pay spoke to Western’s conservatism.

Script and story breakdowns by Drake for a Little Lulu story done for Western/Gold Key. Arnold writes: “I often used Dad as the central character. When Marge Higgins created the original single-panel Lulus in The Saturday Evening Post, it was strictly mother-and-daughter. There was no daddy... at least, not to my recall. When John Stanley took over, he did a fabulous job of developing all the kids in the gang. But he didn’t often explore MomDad stories. When I succeeded him, gender consciousness ’women’s lib’ came a kind of ’men’s lib’: it was okay for me to depict Dad as being a good cook and enjoying it. (Previously, that would have been seen as a feminine trait.) And I could have Dad take his little girl to the office to experience that part of his life. ’Miss In-between’ was about the see-saw relationships of even the best marriages.” [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

high. But Paul made it painless for writers. I met two kinds of editors in comics: those who, longing to write the stories themselves, dictated to the writer (Weisinger and Schiff, for example), and those who, once convinced of your skill, gave you lots of freedom. Murray Boltinoff was that kind of editor. So was Paul: non-competitive. Some writers prefer one, some the other. I was more a Murray/Paul writer. It’s less about editing talent than it is about style. But it’s too late to convince me that style is not crucial to content. Wally and Paul had a friendship that reached beyond the office doors. They had a mutual love of Verdi and Puccini and often attended the opera together. And it was Wally who introduced me to the Veteran’s Bedside Network, show-business people using music and drama as therapy in VA hospitals. Having served nearly four years in World War

For an interesting clue to the company’s 19thcentury nature, sniff this bit of symbolism: unlike National and Marvel, Western had no writers’ bullpen. You arrived on schedule, did your work in twenty or thirty minutes, and went on your way. That meant zero contact among writers and artists. No publisher promoted camaraderie among the creators. But Western discouraged it. Again, that was symbolic of its whole corporate spirit.

Thus I didn’t get to know Al McWilliams, Frank Bolle, George Roussos, Mike Sekowsky, Walt Simonson, George Evans, and Reed Crandall. I did get to know Paul Newman (but not enough!), Joe Orlando (at DC), Jack Sparling, and Luis Dominguez, still a good friend and partner. (Luis and I now produce art based on my original cover sketches that I have retained.) Eventually, I saw that what made Western a different fish was “Disneyitis,” a virus attacking any corporate body that holds licensing agreements with “ol’ Walt.” Beyond its normal share of self-protectiveness, Disney had a well-earned reputation for ultra-conservative labor and business practices. In 1940 the Disney colorists (mostly young

Go Western, Young Man women) won a long, nasty strike to improve their $15-a-week wages. also, early WD gave few creative credits. Did it want people to believe Walt drew, inked, and colored a zillion cels of Snow White all by himself? (If so, it failed. The day Walt died, Disney stock shot up $3.) But the Disney licenses were precious stuff. That’s what Western’s anal retention was all about. Disneyitis wasn’t the sole cause of Western’s conservative style. While other publishers originated most of their titles, perhaps 80% of Western’s books were licensed. To protect those licenses, Western adopted standards that made the Comics Code Authority look like a convention of hippies. It also handcuffed Wally. I know he’d have liked dreaming up new titles, with themes more dedicated to a changing audience. Its distribution was also a key to Western’s fussiness. Comics were but a fraction of its line. Golden Books, coloring books, puzzle books, and TV/movie tie-ins were their main trade, and that meant chain store distribution. At newsstands, no Westerns snuggled up to DC and Marvel. But Woolworth carried the whole line. And, à la Disney, Woolworth was pure white bread—and don’t hold the mayo! (Woolworth is now kaput but that bland taste isn’t.) And I think that, at chain stores, kids books were bought for the kids, not by them. So, with

Of O.G. Whiz, Arnold writes, “Issue #1 was a John Stanley idea. The rest were mine. O.G. could have worked with proper marketing. Western distributed primarily to chain stores (Woolworth’s, etc.), where their Golden Books sold well. But their reps looked down on comics (except for the Disney titles, of course). O.G. was short-lived, but went out with a blaze of glory: an uppriced issue devoted to a parody of Time magazine called Tike” [a re-spelling of “tyke,” of course]. [©2002 Western Publishing, Inc.]

parents as buyers, Western’s books had to be purer than Snow White. Despite the crotchety coloration of the above, I enjoyed my work at Western. It was the wide span of books that turned me on. In addition to animated, mystery, and sci-fi comics, I wrote some non-comics versions of Welcome Back, Kotter and Fat Albert, which was a great change of pace. So, even with the handcuffs, you could do work that was available nowhere else. I have no idea what Western is up to these days. Perhaps it has graduated to the 20th century. But, of course, we’re now in the 21st

Arnold and Lillian Drake.

Arnold: “J.T. and the Colonel was created for a start-up anthology mag at Western that (far as I can recall) never got beyond #1. The co-tagonists (don’t look it up in Webster’s; it ain’t there) let me do a black-&-white team. I wanted to introduce a black family into Little Lulu’s neighborhood but it was nixed. Still, a partnership between a black and a white bird was okay: J.T., the very practical hotdog-cart owner, and the Colonel, a W.C. Fieldsish piece of pure flim-flam. It was fun while it lasted. (About 15 minutes.)” [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

I, Robotman a stinging slap and the screech of automobile tires. And then, only minutes after Joan had left, three men—one of them called “Flip”— bursting in with drawn pistols. Harshly impatient questions about my “valuable new invention.” One of the trio heading for the screen which shielded a section of the lab. My instinctive, protective lunge toward the armed crook—and then my own outcry of pain mingled with the smell of gunsmoke as I fell. Then—nothing, until— “Bob—Bob—speak to me. It’s Chuck. Are you all right?”

Unable to move, I had looked up into the anxious eyes of Chuck Grayson, himself still stunned by a blow from the butt of a pistol. We had exchanged hurried words, each of us realizing fully that my only chance for life lay in having my human brain transplanted at once [Art ©2002 Biljo White; based on 1940s Robotman TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] into the skull of the metallic figure which sat [INTRODUCTION: The following vintage article is reprinted, motionless and unliving behind the nearby screen and which had not with minimal updating, from Alter Ego, Vol. 1, #9 (1965). A pair been disturbed by the criminals, who had thought it nothing but a statue of footnotes from the original have been incorporated into the main and who had fled in disgust at the thought of gaining nothing from their text, and several new comments have been appended as an epilogue. dirty work. —Roy.] I was “born,” you might say, on a late-winter day in 1942. (In Star Spangled Comics #7, to be exact.) The earliest memory I have is one of light—a stray beam of sunlight which had drifted through the window of Bob Crane’s laboratory and had fallen upon my ocular lens. This activated my electronic heart—and I lived. My first inclination, of course, was to move, to get up from the steel chair on which I sat. I was vaguely aware of being numb and somewhat stiff; and, in my confused state, I fancied naturally enough that I had been asleep. It was only with the first squeaking of my knees that I began to become aware of the true state of things. Looking down to locate the source of the irksome sound, I beheld—feet and legs of metal! In fact, my entire body was constructed of a light blue steel-like metal which clanked as I stepped awkwardly from the low platform on which I had awakened. “Have I gone mad?” I wondered for an instant. “Or am I still dreaming—?” Then I remembered. The events of the previous night flooded in upon me now: I, Bob Crane, wealthy young scientist, pursuing my life’s work in the lab attached to my palatial residence. Chuck Grayson, my lifelong friend and assistant, working busily with me to perfect a mechanical robot which would look and act like a human being. A forgotten date with my fiancée, Joan Carter—of which I had been abruptly reminded by an insistent doorbell followed by

Robotman debuted in Star Spangled Comics #7 (April 1942), with uncredited story by Jerry Siegel and art by the Joe Shuster shop (see note at end of article); the splash page is reprinted here from a copy provided by Tom Morehouse. Robotman’s origin was re-told at issue-length by writer Roy Thomas and artists Mike Bair & Mike Machlan in All-Star Squadron #63 (Nov. 1986). [©2002 DC Comics.]

“Paul Dennis,” as told to Roy Thomas

At the graveyard I met the weeping Joan Carter (the only person present besides a minister—I was evidently not a popular soul as Bob Crane). Probably because I unconsciously reminded Joan of her late fiancé, she expressed a desire to see me again. Leaving Joan at her doorstep, I proceeded to search for a hood called “Flip”—and of course I soon found him and cleared Chuck’s good name. However, I chose to tell no one else that the awesome Robotman was “Paul Dennis”; only Chuck and I shared that secret. Chuck, naturally, was eager to recommence our scientific investigations. But I had discovered a more important reason for living. “The criminal element,” I told Chuck, “is going to hear a great deal more from Robotman!” And hear they did! Unfortunately, my foes through the years proved to have names (The Human Magnet, Slanteyes, Murder Master, et al.) which were much more dramatic and inspiring than the crooks themselves. They proved simple to overcome—and, once imprisoned, none of them ever returned to bother me a second time. What I wouldn’t have given for one good Luthor, Sivana, or Joker—if only to relieve the doldrums! I had Superman’s artist, Joe Shuster, for my initial story—but that was all. Meanwhile, I built a new life for myself as Paul Dennis. I became a regular escort for Joan Carter, though I knew that marriage was out of the question. And, officially, I became the “associate” of Chuck Grayson; the two of us continued our scientific researches whenever I could spare time from my crime-fighting activities. In fact, we even

This page from Robotman’s second outing, in Star Spangled #8 (May ’42), features all the mainstays—“Paul Dennis,” Joan Carter, Chuck Grayson, and Robotman—and is probably still by Siegel and the Shuster art shop. As an inside joke, in the very next panel Robotman runs off. To Joan’s cries of “What—who—are you?” he calls back, “I’m not Superman!” [©2002 DC Comics.]

And now I stood alone in the laboratory, just beginning to recover from the effects of the delicate operation which Chuck had performed. Chuck—but where was Chuck? Almost in a daze, I rushed to the door and retrieved the morning paper lying outside. Completely unaware of the frightened newsboy rushing away as my metal hand clutched the paper, I scanned a headline that made my oil run cold. Chuck—had been accused of my murder! But then, after all, hadn’t Bob Crane’s lifeless body been found in my labor, with my assistant standing over it? Determined to help Chuck before it was too late, I rushed into the streets of the city. A traffic-hardened taxi driver panicked and stepped on the gas as I approached. Without even thinking of why he was afraid or of what I was doing, I overtook his cab easily and hopped into the front seat. Only the clanging of metal when the cabbie slammed a wrench against my head reminded me of my fearsome appearance. After one more encounter—with two policemen who emptied their pistols at me—I returned in stealth to my lab. To my amazement I had discovered that I was now invulnerable to small-arms fire, “just like the Superman we read about in the funnies!” Quickly fashioning a false face and false hands of flesh-like material and wearing them over my metallic parts, I donned a suit and visited Chuck in jail. To the police I used the fictitious name “Paul Dennis.” Revealing myself to my elated friend, I vowed to clear him by locating the real murderer and left—to attend my own funeral!

“The Trial of Robotman” from Star Spangled #15 (Dec. ’42) became the primary focus of All-Star Squadron #17 (Jan. 1983), with script by RT, art by Adrian Gonzales & Rick Hoberg. “To Slay the Body Electric” followed the 1942 “Robotman” tale closely, except that when he went into action in the courtroom, three pals named Liberty Belle, Firebrand, and Commander Steel were around to help get the crowd to safety. [©2002 DC Comics.]

I, Robotman Following this rousing scene, Slugg introduced a horde of perjuring witnesses who testified that I was an “iron fiend” who trampled women and children with glee and made Adolf Hitler look like a gentleman. During World War II these were strong words indeed; but I resisted my impulses and then spoke in my own defense: “None of you has ever heard these lies about me before. But all of you have heard of the good I did, saving lives, smashing crime... I want to go on doing good—being human as my brain is human! Is a man less human with a wooden leg or a glass eye? Society needs my strength, my abilities, my trained scientific mind...” At that moment there was a rumbling as the ancient courtroom, which had never been meant to hold such large crowds, began to collapse. Forced against my will to reveal the full extent of my robot strength, I easily burst the thick chains and braced the walls while the people were evacuated. Then, when my enemy Slugg ironically turned out to have a weak heart, I rushed him to the hospital faster than any ambulance could have made it. When I returned, anxious about the effect that my display of super-human prowess might have on the jury, I found myself being cheered! The trial, it seemed, was over—and I was pronounced a free human being and a citizen. It was the happiest day of my life! Not long afterward, though I still continued my partnership with Chuck Grayson and my unrewarding courtship of Joan Carter, I felt the need for companionship of my own kind—so I created (in SS #29)

From the very start, the original Robotman had a tendency to go to pieces! Compare this scene from a Star Spangled (circa 1943) with Cliff Steele’s travail in Doom Patrol #87 (May ’64), as reprinted in the very welcome Doom Patrol Archives, Vol. 1 and glimpsed in this issue’s interview with Arnold Drake. (See p. 11.). The simpler art is probably no longer by the Siegel-Shuster shop. [©2002 DC Comics.]

designed and built for me an entirely new body, complete with rockets concealed in the back, in Star Spangled #13. By the end of 1942 I had become a steely thorn in the side of big-city crime—so that a shyster lawyer named Sam Slugg decided to try to get rid of me so he could become top dog in the underworld (this was in SS #15). His assistant, Brutus Bane, served me a summons as a “public nuisance,” and, when I tossed him and his boss into a crumpled heap, assault and battery was added to the charge against me. Actually, this was just what I wanted. As I explained to Chuck, “Sooner or later the courts must decide whether or not I’m a human being. If I can win this case, I can take my place in society again.” We tried not to think of the consequences if I failed to convince a jury of my ultimate humanity. The decrepit courtroom was packed with people, friends as well as enemies. I allowed myself to be bound in heavy chains, and the trial began. After I had managed to get Brutus Bane’s “evidence” laughed out of court, Chuck Grayson took the stand and revealed to the world the astounding events of my creation—everything except my new “human” life as Paul Dennis. Joan, who seems to have loved Bob Crane more than had been apparent since his demise, burst into tears at the news and had to be helped from the courtroom.

Robotman’s Detective Comics stories, such as this one from #182 (April 1952), had a more serious tone. Art may be by Joe Certa, who in 1956 would be the original artist of “John Jones, Manhunter from Mars.” [©2002 DC Comics.]

“Paul Dennis,” as told to Roy Thomas

Robbie the Robotdog. The Mutt of Steel, you might have called him. He was, of course, much smaller than I and much more vulnerable to crooks (who were forever kayoing him with blows on the head which would not have fazed me); but he had several good points, as well. For one thing, he could talk, and, once I got him past the “Two plus two is four” stage, he acquired an almost human intelligence. Along with his mentality he developed an entirely human conceit— and an aversion to the white terrier disguise which protected his (and therefore my) secret identity when we took pleasure jaunts through the city. Despite his shortcomings, he could be a lot of help on a case, too. Once, for instance, he hopped onto the back of a fleeing criminal’s car and scattered parts of his metal body as a trail to lead me to the crook’s hideout. On another occasion I used a small tree to catapult Robbie through the top of a gangster’s auto. For this feat Robbie received due approbation; he was used in an immense ad campaign for Barker’s Dog Biscuits. Actually, being a robot, Robbie didn’t need food, but he chewed around on a biscuit for a minute and then gave the company its slogan for the campaign: “After tasting Barker’s Dog Biscuits, I’ll never eat any other dog food!” Robbie retired, I’m sorry to say, when after SS #82 I moved my adventures into Detective Comics. Perhaps he didn’t feel that a new artist could handle his escapades as well as Jimmy Thompson; at any rate, I haven’t heard from him since.

The likely inspiration for Robbie the Robotdog (seen here in Star Spangled #35, Aug. 1944, with Jimmy Thompson art) was Sparko, the mechanical dog who appeared with the cigarette-smoking robot Elektro in the 1939-40 New York World’s Fair. In the 1980s All-Star Squadron Elektro was customized into Gernsback, the heroes’ butler in their Perisphere HQ. Writer/editor Roy Thomas had plans for Sparko to serve as the basis of Robbie, but never got around to it. Hey, he only had 67 issues, after all! [©2002 DC Comics.]

My career in Detective, much more than in Star Spangled, was largely concerned with pulling myself together—literally. For example, in the very first Detective tale (#138), a petty thief named Dirk McGurk slammed me against the side of a building with a crane. As he so aptly put it, I “busted apart like a cheap watch.” The police gathered the parts faithfully, but I made Humpty Dumpty look like a kindergarten jigsaw puzzle until they discovered a blueprint inside one of my feet. Just the same, it was an ill portent that proved depressingly prescient, as far as I was concerned. I must have been the most accident-prone super-hero since Plastic Man first stumbled over Woozy Winks. If it wasn’t my arm coming off, it was a bullet piercing my electronic heart or damaging my self-charging battery powered by cosmic rays. If I wasn’t becoming a super-magnet so that I had to sit around in a rubber sheet all day, I was having a freak accident which made me repeat my actions every five minutes. And I went through a series of bodies made of almost every conceivable material—rubber, gold, glass, I had them all! Worst of all, when I needed repairs, it seemed that some inept bumpkin would always show up to put me together again. In Detective #145 it was Joe Blow of Toonyville, who wouldn’t have tied his own shoelaces without a road map; he gave me one leg shorter than the other, a rubber hand, a music box inside my head, and other decidedly nonvital organs. And once a farmboy named Zeke (in #175) fixed me up with rocket attachments so that I couldn’t help flying (and all this at a

32 time when I had long since given up the sport as too dangerous). And through it all, I was now alone. Chuck Grayson had become an infrequent visitor during my latter days in Star Spangled, and now I saw no more of him. Joan Carter, too, had faded from the picture; for all I know she ended up marrying Steel Sterling and living metally ever after. And of course Robbie was gone... Still, there were other robots in the Detective series now and then. In #177 I met Robotgirl—only to discover eventually that she was nothing but a lady journalist of the standard Lois Lane type, masquerading as my female counterpart to capture a crook; what a frustrating experience that was! And then there was Robotcrook in #150, controlled by Gimmick Gus; Robotrobber in #158 (who would commit a crime for a 50¢ inserted fee); and a “second Robotman” who was just like me except that his human brain turned out to be that of a wanted murderer, so that he had to be electrocuted. In one story I even had my own robot, à la Superman, when “Paul Dennis” was quarantined during a big-city crime wave.

I, Robotman and knees. Cliff is pretty much a chip off the old girder, though, complete to sacrificing parts of his body at least once an issue. And, boy, that Rita Farr. That’s a whole lot of woman there, Yancy... Say, I’ll have to take a glance and see if there’s still a Joan Carter listed in the city directory. There just might be a dance left in the old tin can yet! [EDITOR’S NOTE 2002: As I look back over an intervening 37 years at this light-hearted piece, I recall little about writing it except that I mostly relied upon the then-extensive collection of my friend and A/E’s art editor Biljo White in Columbia, Missouri, taking notes from his Star Spangled and Detective runs. Biljo did four nice illustrations to accompany the article, based on art in the comics themselves. One of them been retained as the title illo.

[There is a slight lapse in style in the article from time to time, since it is written as a first-person narration by Robotman, yet several times mentions that his adventures are appearing in comic books and are even drawn by particular artists. By the way, while we’ve learned since that Jerry Siegel was the writer of at In fact, I’d say that I, least the earliest “Robotman” Robotman, was all things to all tales, beginning with Star people during these years. I was a Spangled #7 (April 1942), the one-man restaurant, a six-armed artist was not Siegel’s fire department, a police“Superman” co-creator Joe controlled guided missile, a Shuster, as stated, but rather “human” armored car, and even a artists in the Siegel-Shuster racing-car driver (long before this shop, possibly without Shuster’s Cliff Steele)! And my artists and direct participation. According writers managed to pack enough to collector Bob Hughes, the gadgets into my metal chestplate origin’s “first 5 or 6 pages were to fill Green Arrow’s quiver— penciled by Leo Nowak and and that’s going some! In this 1953 tale, reprinted with art credit added in World’s Finest Comics #223 (Maythe rest of the story is clearly June 1974), the metallic manhunter even had to buy a license! [©2002 DC Comics.] But nothing lasted. It was the the work of Paul Cassidy. The same old story. In Star Spangled inker... was either Cassidy or [Ed] Dobrotka, or maybe they split it. I my 12-page origin had had the misfortune to appear at the same time as don’t see any [John] Sikela there (although he may have worked on Simon and Kirby’s Newsboy Legion; just about the time they left the later stories)... So I would say that the usual gang of Shuster ghosts scene, a kid named Robin moved in to hog all the glory. Not only was I worked on this series in the usual manner—pages flying everywhere never cover-featured; I was speedily and permanently cramped into sixand everyone grabbing a pencil, pen, or brush. The miracle is that it page stories—and, in one black issue, into 3 1/2 pages for possibly the all turned out looking more or less consistent.” (Thanks to Bob, and shortest super-hero tale of all time. It’s really a shame, as I made a handy to Jim Amash, who relayed his info.) guy to have around in a fight and would have made a great recruit for the Justice Society—except that I lasted longer in comics than they did. [Incidentally, while scripting All-Star Squadron in the 1980s I tried The importance of being obscure, I suppose. to get Jerry Siegel to write about Robotman’s creation for the letters section. He politely declined, because, he said, DC Comics had never Eventually I decided to retire. My last appearance (Detective #203) acknowledged him as the hero’s co-creator. The Golden Age was as a “human war machine,” capturing some bank robbers in the Robotman’s last appearance, in Detective Comics #203, was covermidst of some war games by becoming a human cannonball. What an dated January 1954. ignominious end from such a promising beginning! My only consolation was that in the final panel of my last story I was decorated for valor; the [Knowledgeable comics and/or science-fiction fans will recognize medal was held to my chest by a hidden magnetic plate. I was replaced the references to “Adam Link,” the first “sympathetic robot” in sf by one Captain Compass, about whom the less said the better. He didn’t literature, whose exploits have occasionally been adapted into comics. even have a costume or a secret identity—just a purple uniform and a Adam Link had been created in the late 1930s by Otto (Eando) nondescript smile. Binder for a series of short stories and novellas in the pulp magazine Amazing Stories, beginning with “I, Robot,” a title to which that of So now I sit here in the Home for Retired Robots, playing checkers my article was an homage. Robotman owed a considerable debt to with Adam Link and chatting about the “good old days” of comics and Adam Link in several areas, including to some extent his origin—and science-fiction. Every now and then I pick up a copy of Doom Patrol to especially “The Trial of Robotman” in Star Spangled #15, as per the see how my modern-day successor is doing. Not too bad, that Cliff note accompanying one of the illos a few pages back. —Roy.] Steele—although I haven’t adjusted yet to his orange body and I would have felt naked appearing in public without metal joints at my elbows

[The EC logo is a TM of William M. Gaines, Agent, Inc.]

Mr. Monster’s

JACK DAVIS When Harvey Kurtzman created Mad for EC in 1952, he gathered the best artists in the business to help launch the four-color comic. Jack Davis was among those chosen few. The two had already worked together on Kurtzman’s war titles, Frontline Combat and Two-fisted Tales. It turned out to be a smart choice. Fast and versatile, Davis quickly perfected a loose, loony art style that was ideal for Mad. In his spare time Davis also drew classic covers and stories for Tales from the Crypt and other EC horror titles. Davis’ work proved to be immensely popular, even when illustrating stories for lesser EC titles such as Panic, Impact, Crime SuspenStories, and Incredible Science-Fiction. After Bill Gaines’ Entertaining Comics comic book line died in 1956, Davis went on to enjoy a spectacular career in commercial art. Covers for Time and TV Guide were just a few of his many highprofile accounts. But even the great Jack Davis had to start somewhere. In this case, “here” is “Varsity Romance”!

Davis created these “Varsity Romance” pages as art samples to be shown to prospective publishers. Editor after editor passed, until publisher Bill Gaines and editor Al Feldstein finally recognized Davis’ genius. In The Art of Jack Davis the artist laughingly states that he “showed the pages to Al Feldstein and he gave me my first horror story, probably because it was such horrible stuff.” Jack Davis’ art samples for a story called “Variety Romance,” doubtless done in 1950-51, since his first published EC work had a 1951 cover date. [©2002 Jack Davis.]

Davis’ humorous comments notwithstanding, the pages are actually quite good. A quick glance at these and the earlier Bullsheet cover (reprinted on our title page) shows that Davis seems to have been born with his distinctive style. The early Davis style is also evident on the horror sample page reproduced here. His hand-lettering on this and the love pages suggests that they were all part of the same comic art portfolio that convinced EC to hire him. Though not as polished as his later work, this piece is historically important—and may well be Jack Davis’ very first horror page. It has never been printed before, and we are indebted to Joe and Nadia Mannarino of All Star Auctions for providing copies. We also thank Hank Harrison, who first published our other early samples of Jack Davis’ work.

Comics Crypt

Mr. Monster’s

Jack Davis rarely drew super-hero stories. Matter of fact, this single story from Archie Comics’ The Adventures of The Fly #3 (Nov. 1959) was the only example we could find! (And note the attempt to get a Simon & Kirby feel, especially in the final panel.) This splash page, shot from the original black-&-white art, is reprinted from an art catalogue, where the whole six-page story was offered a few years back... in a suggested bidding range of only $600-900! [©2002 Archie Publications, Inc.]

Jack’s first published comic strip, from Tip Top Comics #32 (Dec. 1938). He was only twelve at the time, and to him the $1 he received was a king’s ransom! Interestingly, Harvey Kurtzman’s first published comic work appeared just a few issues later, in Tip Top #36! [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

Comics Crypt

GEORGE EVANS Like fellow cartoonist Jack Davis, the late George Evans was a versatile and talented comic book artist. Evans never drew for Mad, but he illustrated many stories for Kurtzman’s war titles, as well as numerous Al Feldstein-edited titles. EC fans still marvel at George’s exceptional art for Tales from the Crypt, Crime SuspenStories, Shock SuspenStories, Piracy, and his personal favorite, Aces High.

After EC folded except for Mad, which was converted into a black-&-white magazine, George worked for other comics publishers from 1961-73. In 1980 he landed his dream job: writing and drawing Secret Agent Corrigan. He produced this classic newspaper adventure strip until he retired in 1996—just five years before his death on June 22, 2001, at age 81. For this episode of “EC Confidential,” we burrowed deep into the Comic Crypt to uncover two very rare Evans items.

First we have an unpublished cover that George illustrated for Ron Frantz’s Fantastic Adventures [see next page]. It was originally intended for the fourth issue, but unfortunately Ron’s shortlived comics line was a victim of the black-&-white-comics glut of ’87, and Fantastic Adventures died with issue #3. While not a super-hero, George’s jet-propelled witch certainly shows off his silly side. This is the first time this picture has seen print, and we thank Ron for letting us run it. For more history on Ron’s Ace Comics line, check out his website at: <http://members.aol.com/magilla445/magillaindex.html>. Our second Evans item is a quick sketch George sent me in 1989, featuring a hair-raising meeting between his character and Mr. Monster. Cute, huh? And, finally, we thought you’d enjoy seeing George’ first published drawing, done when he was just a nipper of fourteen. This illo [see next page], published in the pulp magazine Dare-Devil Aces, netted George a cool buck! Big money in 1934—at least for a kid starting out! Before we go, I’d like to recommend Jim Keefe’s website, which contains an excellent “Artists Spotlight” section devoted to George Evans. You’ll find it at <http://www.keefestudios.com/studio/evans/flash.htm>. And for even more Evans lore, check out Jon B. Cooke’s excellent Comic Book Artist magazine. Issue #17 features one of George’s last interviews—plus tributes by myself and others. That’s all for now. Hope you enjoyed your visit to the Crypt, and we invite you to join us again next issue! Till next time,

Check out this incredibly faithful interpretation of George’s drawings from EC’s “Blind Alleys” from Tales from the Crypt #46 (Feb. 1955) by the 1972 Tales from the Crypt film. [Art ©2002 William Gaines Agent; movie still ©2002 Amicus Productions.]

Mr. Monster’s

George’s first published art, drawn at age fourteen. Sheesh! Some guys are just born talented! And, like young Jack Davis, I’m sure he spent his $1 payment wisely! [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

While George was rightly praised for his EC work, he said on at least one occasion that some of the work he was proudest of was his Captain Video art for Fawcett. Here’s a nice aerial sequence from “The Indestructible Antagonist” in CV #3 (June 1951). [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

Dave Berg

Dave Berg (1920-2002) by Jim Amash Dave Berg had a point of view and he stuck to it. His work was never overtly realistic compared to that of others in the comic book field, but that wasn’t his concern. His work had a friendly, cartoony life all its own. The reader always felt comfortable and at home while reading a Dave Berg story. What I find intriguing about Dave’s work is that he adapted that style to many genres with equal effectiveness, without forsaking his artistic muse. Dave started in comics working for Will Eisner. It’s not surprising that Dave assisted on the early Spirit stories. While he only did backgrounds, his style was a perfect fit for the expressive cartooniness of Eisner’s seminal comic book creation. Berg was an inspired choice to follow Jack Cole on “Death Patrol” for Quality Comics. He drew several “Uncle Sam” stories and adapted to the more realistic “Blackhawk” feature, while refining the charm and warmth of his drawing style. Very few artists are gifted enough to make this transition, and fewer still become successful at it, but Dave handled it with ease.

He didn’t stop there. He went on to Fawcett Publications, where he lent his magic touch to “Captain Marvel.” Since Captain Marvel never fought a battle without his tongue placed firmly in his cheek, it was appropriate casting for Dave. He followed A recent photo of Dave Berg in his studio. the lead of chief artist/cocreator C.C. Beck and was considered by many to be one of the better “Captain Marvel” artists. Dave spent many years in the Timely bullpen, starting out on humor features such as “Georgie,” “Baldy,” and “Tessie the Typist.” He also worked for other companies, such as Dell and Archie (a natural fit if ever there was one). But here’s where Dave’s work really starts to grow. Stan Lee assigned Dave to the war and western books. One would think that that wouldn’t have been a good match, but Dave brought a quality seldom seen to those genres. He adjusted his style to the subject matter without losing the cartoony effectiveness inherent in his work. Combat Kelly depicted the fictional realities of the Korean War with humor, and who better to portray that than Dave Berg? His depictions of weary, hard-bitten, yet honest good guys upheld the firm tradition of happy-go-lucky, determined American heroes. They were tough because they had to be, and their facial expressions represented the average guy who was just doing his job. The Korean protagonists were personifications of malice as seen through the Cold War eyes of an artist recording the attitudes of his times. Combat Kelly stories occasionally had a happy laugh by story’s end, assuring the younger audience that these stories were just entertainment. This was in striking contrast to the themes Harvey Kurtzman was exploring in EC’s Frontline Combat and Two-fisted Tales. Dave strove to reach a different audience than Kurtzman, and a lesser cartoonist could not have pulled it off. Under other hands, those war stories would have been heavy-handed adventures of death and destruction; but Dave’s light touch turned them into the 1950s equivalent of Sgt. Fury. He never forgot who his audience was. No matter how old he got, Dave never lost the connection with his intended audience. He felt a kinship towards youth, as his Mad work became a showcase for the ironies of life. People of all ages could see themselves in a Dave Berg Mad sequence. As publisher Bill Gaines confirmed on various occasions, “The Lighter Side of Dave Berg” was one of the most popular features in Mad. Dave’s keen eye towards human behavior was gentle as he pointed out our failures and foibles. Most of America grew up with him, and because of him. Dave Berg was a part of our lives. His lovely wife of many years, Vivian (who briefly wrote for and was fired by Stan Lee because she couldn’t write humor stories about rabbits), told me a tale that’s typical of a Dave Berg story. He was told that he was “too perfect” and needed a sin of some kind. Vivian decided that Dave’s “sin” was to smoke a pipe, and he took her advice. Years later, when it was decided that Dave needed to trade “sins,” she suggested gambling. I don’t know how successful the trade was, but Dave gambled with puncturing our pompous psyches for many years—and since he won there, I have no doubt that Las Vegas lost a lot of money.

Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

MGILBERT@EFN.ORG

For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

Vince Fago

Vince Fago (1914-2002) by Jim Amash In January of 2001 I called Roy Thomas to discuss doing interviews for Alter Ego. Roy was aware of my work, since I had interviewed him for The Jack Kirby Collector, and asked whom I had in mind as interview subjects. I said, “Two men. Vince Fago and Gill Fox. I think both men have been unjustly neglected by comics historians and I’ve always wanted to talk to them.” Roy mentioned that he himself had planned to interview Vince, but hadn’t yet found the time. He was certainly familiar with Vince’s artwork and his important, overlooked tenure as Timely Comics’ editorin-chief during World War II. I’d always been annoyed that Vince’s time had not been properly recorded, though the late, lamented Comics Interview did a short interview with him in the 1980s. I wanted to learn more about Vince Fago, and Roy eagerly gave me the go-ahead. I always felt that the best artwork inherently reflects the personality of the person who makes it. Vince’s work had a sweetness and a lively spirit that could have come only from that kind of personality. After my first conversation with him, I realized just how accurate that opinion was.

enriching his bank account as with entertaining and pleasing his readership in whatever venue he worked in. Vince was extremely proud of his Peter Rabbit comic strip work, and he had a love for and fascination with animals. His Rabbit-Man Music books and Mystic Mouse book, done in his later years, gave him great satisfaction.

Vince Fago at age 76.

I asked him what fascinated him about rabbits. His answer was so indicative of his nature: “They’re kind of soft and nice.” How could I not love a guy like that? Well, the fact is that I came to care very much about Vince. We’d grown very close during our interviews. When I told him we were finished, he said sadly, “Oh? Does that mean you’re not going to call me anymore?” It took all I had not to tear up when he said that. “Of course I’m going to keep calling you. We’re friends now. The interview is just icing on the cake.” We stayed in constant contact till his passing. Vince was a humanist, a very spiritual man. He once said, “If you do good works and think good thoughts, they’ll travel to whoever needs them. If people understand this and live by it, then we who live on this planet will enjoy better lives. There’s nothing more important than understanding that we’re all together in this world and need each other. Art is everywhere and love is everywhere and our best works are reflections of that love. Our good thoughts and feelings will come back to us in good works.”

Vince, being a humble sort, was surprised at my reverence for him and his work. He was proud of his time as Timely’s editor and understood the importance of recording the history of his time there, but overall he didn’t feel he was as important as I knew he was. He agreed to take as much time as he could to discuss whatever I once told him that I felt our individual lives are not I wanted, though I know as important as the lives we touch. Vince agreed, and I he had no idea how long think his professional career and his personal life stand as an interview it would turn a testament to that creed. His heart was open to all out to be. Vince tired experiences and all people. He never once saw ugliness, easily, so we broke our only beauty, in whatever his eyes beheld, and it showed in phone conversations up every facet of his life. Vince took unpleasant experiences into many phone calls. and turned them into positive, often humorous events. The interview time Self-caricaturing panel from his “Posty” (the Pelican Postman) in When he was describing a medical procedure he had totaled thirteen hours. Krazy Comics #6 (March 1943), courtesy of Dr. Michael J. Vassallo... just undergone, he said everyone was surprised by and his rendition of Peter Rabbit, from Vince and D’Ann’s own Carrot His memory was how he handled it. “I was laughing and making jokes, Publications (Oct. 1996). [Posty art ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.; pretty good, but a few while I had these tubes stuck in me and nobody but Peter Rabbit art ©2002 estate of Vince Fago.] times he was a little me saw the humor in it. But you know, I really frustrated because he enjoyed what I went through.” couldn’t answer every question: “Are you sure I’m really helping you? I Vince and I made many plans for the future, plans that we still tried just don’t remember everything.” I assured him he was of tremendous to accomplish even when we learned he had been diagnosed with help and that I didn’t expect him to recall all the details of a rich life, but inoperable cancer. He remained positive, never getting down on himself that every little tidbit was important. or his situation; he worked until just a few days before his death. Vince Vince remembered staffers better than freelancers, which was underalways said he wanted to leave us laughing, and I suspect he did. He standable because those were the people with whom he had the most would not have wanted anyone to be sad about his passing. contact. A couple of times he confused one person with another, but we Vince knew how I felt about him, and that feeling was reciprocated. straightened out as much of that as we could. Thanks to Vince, I was My heart goes out to D’Ann, his lovely and caring wife of 59-and-a-half able to lay the groundwork for what Timely Comics was all about, years. Vince and D’Ann made me feel like a part of their family. They’re which helped enormously when I interviewed other Timely creators. certainly a part of mine. Vince was the sweetest human being I’ve ever In discussing his own artwork, Vince was proud and self-effacing at spoken with, and I’m forever grateful that for a year and a half the same time. He never thought of himself as a great cartoonist, though he was a wonderful part of my life. A part that shall stay with he knew his work was good. I don’t think he was as concerned with me the rest of my days.

IN SEPT.: THE LEGEND OF GOLD KEY COMICS!

setting aside our regular columns for a complete look! Behind a beautiful, new

ce Timm. Magn

Cover art by Bru

CBA #22 unlocks the secrets of GOLD KEY! This one is so big, we’re

BRUCE TIMM cover painting featuring a certain fave robot fighter, there’s features and interviews on the oft-overlooked comics company, including a comprehensive history, interviews with and/or looks at RUSS MANNING and his amazing Magnus

Inc

and Tarzan work, PAUL S. NEWMAN and ALBERTO GIOLOTTI’s Turok, WALLY WOOD’s Total War, JESSE SANTOS and DON GLUT’s Dr. Spektor and Dagar, and more! Plus we have a peek at the great children’s Gold Key comics with CARL BARKS,

THOMAS McKIMSON, MARK EVANIER, and others. Also PAUL NORRIS, DAN SPIEGLE, unpublished art and more! Come share in the treasure!

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No. 76

In this issue:

Marc Swayze

[FCA EDITOR’S NOTE: From 1941-42, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Comics. He designed the character Mary Marvel and drew her first two adventures, but he was primarily hired to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers, and also wrote numerous Captain Marvel scripts for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. After serving in World War II, he produced art and stories for Fawcett on a freelance basis from his home in Louisiana, where he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, and also drew the syndicated newspaper strip Flyin’ Jenny, originated by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton. After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze drew for Fawcett’s romance comics and eventually ended his comics career with Charlton Publications in the 1950s. Having covered the above aspects of his career in broad strokes since his popular ongoing column first appeared in FCA #54 in 1996, he now turns his attention to particular aspects of the Golden Age—beginning with this overview of the World’s Mightiest Mortal. —P.C. Hamerlinck.] Writing or drawing, when we were busy doing our thing in the Golden Age, there didn’t seem to be much concern over the effects our efforts might have on the readers, the youngsters of the ’40s. There were no comments tossed around as to whether the work might result in a child’s growing up to be a better person… or the other kind. The sole

“A perfect guy for a kid to run around with.” A line from Some Bright Morning I’ll Fly Away by Milton Hartsell... and the first of several old rough sketches recently inked by Marc. [Art ©2002 Marc Swayze; Capt. Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

responsibility, as seen from my corner, was storytelling… with pictures and words… providing entertainment of a sort… relaxation, amusement, excitement… and, for the publisher, of course, money. There wasn’t a lot of teaching or preaching to it. Eventually criticism did emerge… of the influence comic books were having on children... and the opinions weren’t all good. You know about that. Ended up with steps taken by the industry to control itself, à la the Hayes Office of Hollywood. A comforting afterthought to all that may be the unlikely possibility of a kid getting into trouble…with his nose buried in a comic book. There has never been much said about the “good” influence of the comics. But I’ll bet there was. A heartwarming novel, Some Bright Morning I’ll Fly Away by Milton Hartsell, tells of a little farm boy whose life changed when his uncle brought him a grocery sack full of used Captain Marvel Adventures comic books, the first he’d ever seen. “They must have cost Uncle Charlie well over a dollar.” Author Hartsell’s young character goes on: “After absorbing a few of the super adventure stories, I knew when I grew up, without a doubt, I wanted to become ’Captain Marvel,’ or at least his side-kick. He was “The World’s Mightiest Mortal” and a very good guy, with no use for mean people. A person couldn’t miss seeing him. His dazzling uniform featured an eye-catching thunderbolt across his chest. “Captain Marvel could zoom across the horizon, like a shooting star. His dynamic cape fluttered in the wind with vigor. It was such a beautiful sight to behold, something akin to an American flag flailing proudly in a snappy

We Didn’t Know...

my hero; maybe it was Billy Batson and his magic word…” So mused Kesey’s character. Now try to convince me that those weren’t also the thoughts of the author… and I’ll not believe you. Interesting to us, naturally, that the Golden Age comic book super-hero in both instances was our boy, Captain Marvel. Interesting, also, that emphasis in each case fell on the word Shazam. Shazam… from Gomer Pyle, eh? No. Gomer likely picked it up from the script. Coined by a member of the writing staff? No? From Captain Marvel? Billy Batson? The old sorcerer? Mythology? No, no, no, and nope. Where, then? The word “Shazam”... today a part of our language, I’m told… came from the typewriter… from the head… of one man alone… Fawcett writer/editor Bill Parker. Incredibly, Parker, who originated Captain Marvel, née Captain Thunder, wrote the entire first issue of Whiz Comics, plus creating a half dozen other characters to go in it. All that, in a comic book career that lasted scarcely more than one year! He must have had a magic word of his own. Maybe it was Shazam! In “The Haunted Halloween Hotel,” Cap was actually scared... of Mr. Morris’ mean sister-in-law! An old sketch, recently inked, of a scene from Whiz Comics #36 (Oct. 1942). [Art ©2002 Marc Swayze; Capt. Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

windstorm for all to see. “His super calling card was his costume. It sported flashy, skintight, crimson clothes, including a glistening white cape that was trimmed in yellow and appeared to be made of velvet. It made him masterful in flight. His marvelous dark yellow calf-high chukka boots would put any Oklahoma cowboy’s colorful dress boots to shame, even those of a rhinestone rodeo star.

The records tell us that Parker took the editorship of Fawcett’s Mechanix Illustrated magazine when he returned from the military in 1945. Why, we wonder, did he not resume his place as mastermind of the World’s Sellingest Super-hero? Surely he sat high enough in the Fawcett editorial dugout to have a say about his future with the company. Why not, then, the comics? Could there have been a lack of confidence in the comic book? Take a squint at the history of our American newsstand literature… the Dime

“He was a giant of a man, always helping folks in need, and a perfect guy for a kid to run around with and to marvel at. His headquarters was some big American city, like Tulsa or Texarkana.” Granted, the comic book influence in this example does not pertain to real people, but hasn’t it been accepted for a long time that inner thoughts expressed by fictional characters are generally those of the author? Milton Hartsell makes no bones about it in the foreword: “My plan, my goal, was to be just like my hero, ’Captain Marvel,’ who transformed the miracle word ’Shazam’ into an electrifying event that enlightened my spirit.” And there may have been others. Ken Kesey, legendary author of the popular book and movie of the ’60s, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, featured in a later novel an individual influenced by a Golden Age super-hero. In Kesey’s Sometimes a Great Notion, a character, alone in the room of his boyhood, discovers a box of ancient comic books: “There were more Captain Marvels in the box than all the various other assorted marvels put together… Captain Marvel… still my favorite over all the rest of the superdoers.” The story continues about the World’s Mightiest Mortal, then: “Shazam. I said the word softly…smiling at myself but thinking: maybe it wasn’t really Captain Marvel that was

Marc Swayze

Yet another Golden Age sketch recently inked by Marc—of the grim World War II fighter in “Captain Marvel Joins the Army!” from CMA #12 (June 1942). [Art ©2002 Marc Swayze; Capt. Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

Novel as a starter. A hundred years ago? And they lasted… what… ten years… possibly fifteen? Then the pulp magazines. There may still be a few around, but nothing like in the ’20s. Why would one expect more out of the poor comic books that came stumbling in during times when we were either in a war or just getting into one? Know what I think? Bill Parker didn’t believe the comic books would be around long. And, to be honest with you, neither did I. My presence there in the midst of it was because it put me nearer to where I wanted to be… doing my own syndicated newspaper strip… or popular slick magazine illustrations. I had no idea… I never dreamed comic books would be with us a half-century later. Did anyone? Even some of the publishers, upon entering the comic book game, evidenced a quick “get in—get it—get out” approach. And that’s what some did. They’re still here, though, the comic books… and quite likely here to stay. Might have been due, to a great extent, to the influence… the staying power… of those early characters. Thought provoking… and pleasing… that we still hear of them today… and frequently from followers who weren’t even born when they first appeared. Of course the one I hear of the most is the World’s Mightiest Mortal, Captain Marvel. Probably because I knew him personally. [Marc Swayze’s reminiscences about his days in the comic book industry will continue next issue—behind a Marc Swayze Captain Marvel cover, yet!]

Alvin Schwartz

Alvin Schwartz A Brief Look at a Golden Age Writer’s Short Stint on Captain Marvel Schwartz says he left Fawcett Publications when he met DC/AA editor Sheldon Mayer, courtesy of the owner of Alex’s Borsht Bowl, an old New York restaurant. The Borsht Bowl and its owner, Alex, were celebrated in the “Superman” comic-book story “The Chef of Bohemia.”

by J.R. Cochran The Big Red Cheese doesn’t mean all that much to Alvin Schwartz. Yeah, he scripted about ten issues of Captain Marvel Adventures in the early 1940s, but all he really remembers, he says, is “Shazam!” After all, Schwartz wrote a lot of comic books in his day, everything from A Date With Judy to Superman. He also did the words for the Superman comic strip, from 1944 to 1958, Schwartz says. He also once wrote the daily-andSunday Batman.

“Shelly Mayer was a wonderful guy to work with,” Schwartz adds. And no long, strange discussions ensued.

Schwartz, who is in his mid80s and lives in Ontario, Canada, has also authored several novels (including The Blowtop and No Such Mirrors) and the memoir An Unlikely Prophet, as well as screenplays and docudramas. Comics, he says, “represent a very small part of my output.” What he does remember about working for Fawcett Publications was his editor, Henry Aveline Perkins. “I met him at the home of Jack Small, who used to draw Fairy Tale Parade,” Schwartz recalls. “Small was British and so was Lyn,” as he calls him. “Perkins wanted me to take a shot at ’Captain Marvel.’ He was a product of the British public school system. Upper crust, snobby, prissy.” Schwartz adds that he didn’t like working with Perkins, and that Perkins didn’t last all that long at Fawcett: “He was sort of an eccentric. He was very unlike anybody Fawcett had back then. We used to get in long, strange discussions.” Again, at Small’s place in Greenwich Village, a studio apartment on the ground floor. Small liked to work with a lot of different people around, adds Schwartz, who lived nearby on Eighth Street. “Fawcett was trying hard as hell to get Bill Finger to work for them because he was considered one of the great geniuses of comic books. Finger and I were close friends,” Schwartz says. “It was common for writers to work together. I did that for years. I contributed to his Batman stuff, and he contributed a lot to my stuff. Later on, long after Bill Finger’s death, when Rich Morrissey was doing a history of the early years, I ended up attributing a story of mine to Bill, and a story of Bill’s to me.” As it happens, Finger and his wife Portia also lived in Small’s apartment building. The only piece Finger and Schwartz ever did together officially was an episode of the Mark Trail radio show.

Since neither we nor Alvin Schwartz knows precisely which “Captain Marvel” exploits he chronicled in the early ’40s, here’s a contest ad from the inside front cover of Whiz Comics #34 (dated Sept. 4, 1942). [©2002 DC Comics.]

E. Nelson Bridwell

“ECSTATIC!” The E. Nelson Bridwell Interview Conducted by John G. Pierce

Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

E. Nelson Bridwell, drawn by Kurt Schaffenberger...

PREFACE E. Nelson Bridwell lived the dream of many comic book fans: the opportunity to work on his favorite characters as editor (including reprint editor) and sometimes writer. Perhaps more than any other fanturned-pro, he worked diligently to keep his heroes in character and true. This was especially so of his work on Fawcett’s Marvel Family when they were transplanted to DC Comics. If he occasionally faltered, well, his successes outnumbered his failures. And when change was forced on him—as with the “new look” of Shazam! that took place in the final issues of that magazine and continued for a run as a back-up feature in World’s Finest Comics in the early 1980s—he made the best of the situation by remaining faithful to the characters. Nelson suffered from illnesses and physical handicaps which limited his body, but never his mind. For all his vast knowledge of comics’ history, he was an incredibly well-read person who could recite poems and even entire Shakespearean passages from memory. In 1996, artist Kurt Schaffenberger told P.C. Hamerlinck that he referred to Nelson as “a walking encyclopedia.” Although I never met Nelson, it was my pleasure to have some correspondence with him, both in the Shazam! letters pages, as well as in occasional personal replies. He was one of comicdom’s greatest and, sadly, overlooked talents. — John G. Pierce, 2002.

INTRODUCTION Back in the ’40s, E. Nelson Bridwell grew up reading comic books. By 1964, when Roy Thomas, Steve Gerber, and other future comics notables were still editing fanzines, Edward Nelson Bridwell was already breaking into comics, as an assistant to DC editor Mort Weisinger. Over the next 15+ years, he would serve in many capacities at DC Comics. In the early ’70s, he became involved with DC’s revival of Captain Marvel as Julie Schwartz’s associate editor and subsequently as writer of the Shazam! feature. He also compiled the 1977 hardcover book collection Shazam! From the 40’s to the 70’s.

INTERVIEW JOHN PIERCE: How old were you when you first discovered Captain Marvel? E. NELSON BRIDWELL: I was probably about ten years old. It was around the same time the Captain Marvel movie serial was

released in the theatres—1941. I loved the serial as a kid… except when they removed Captain Marvel’s powers in the final chapter.

JP: Is Captain Marvel your all-time favorite comic book character? BRIDWELL: I can’t rank any of them… but if I had to, he’d be right up there with Superman, Batman, and others. JP: When did you first discover organized comics fandom? BRIDWELL: I became involved in EC fandom during the ’50s. JP: How did you get hired at DC? BRIDWELL: I’d been trying to break into the comic book field for several years. I did some writing for Mad. I continually read, obtained back issues, and wrote letters. However, I was living in Oklahoma at the time, so my prospects didn’t look too bright. Then, in December 1963, I got a letter from Mort Weisinger at DC, offering me a job as his assistant. JP: Which task do you prefer: writing stories, editing, selecting reprints, creating text pages, or compiling letter columns? BRIDWELL: Writing. JP: Other than handling the letters pages and writing an occasional story, what was your specific function on Shazam! while Julie Schwartz was the editor? BRIDWELL: Basically just editing and trying to keep the stories consistent with the Golden Age. JP: When did you first meet C.C. Beck? BRIDWELL: After appearing as a guest of honor at the New York Comic Convention, he stopped by the DC offices before leaving for a vacation to his hometown in Minnesota. While at the office, he had to re-pencil the Shazam! #1 cover; he’d mailed one already from his home in Florida, but it “seemed” to have been lost, until he had the second one half-finished! Beck is a nice guy. Artistically, his passion for simplicity tends to be a bit extreme… but he’s good.

JP: Beck disliked all the Shazam! stories by the DC writers that he illustrated; however, he highly praised one of your stories, “What’s In a Name?—Doomsday!” (Shazam! #7, Nov. 1973 ). Was your inspi-

Ecstatic!

JP: I understand you knew Gardner Fox. BRIDWELL: Gardner was one of my boyhood heroes and later he became a good friend of mine. He was tops in his day, along with John Broome, Ed Herron, and others. JP: Was it your idea to have the Captain Marvel vs. Superman letter column rivalry? BRIDWELL: No, it was Julie Schwartz’s idea. JP: In Shazam! #1, whose idea was “Suspendium”? BRIDWELL: Denny O’Neil’s. JP: Whose Shazam! stories did you prefer, Elliot Maggin’s or O’Neil’s? BRIDWELL: Certainly O’Neil’s stories. Denny tried for a light touch, while Elliot went for out-and-out farce. Maggin’s best Shazam! tale was “The Strange and Terrible Disappearance of Maxwell Zodiac” (Shazam! #20, Sept./Oct. 1975), but even there, judicious editing was required. The stories “Invasion of the Salad-Men” (Shazam! #10, Feb., 1974) and “The Incredible Cape-Man” (Shazam! #11, Mar., 1974)—which caused Beck to quit—were written cold, with no story conferences. Here’s scripter E. Nelson Bridwell maintaining some old traditions, in Shazam! #26 (Dec. 1976). Art by Kurt Schaffenberger. [©2002 DC Comics.]

JP: When a story was written which you didn’t care for, would you bring it to Schwartz’s attention?

ration for this story due to DC’s legal difficulties caused by the name “Captain Marvel”?

BRIDWELL: If it was already written, the problem to me was, “How do we salvage it?” Of course, I sometimes kept quiet, even if I may have had some reservations.

BRIDWELL: Absolutely! As you know, DC cannot use Captain Marvel’s name on any cover or in advertisements. JP: What changes, if any, did Beck make on either of the two Shazam! scripts you wrote which he drew? BRIDWELL: He simplified a couple of gimmicks and made a few minor dialogue changes. That’s all. JP: While Beck was working on Shazam!, were any changes ever made after the artwork had been completed? BRIDWELL: Very few changes, if any, in the artwork… but sometimes he’d change the copy in a way Julie and I disliked, so we would change it back. This didn’t happen that often, however. JP: Can you recall any specific changes you made in Shazam! stories while you were the associate editor? BRIDWELL: A few, but none that I’d care to discuss. Most of the changes were simple… name changes, and toning down some absurdities. JP: You have been regarded as a very well informed individual. You are an expert in mythology, history, literature, and in DC’s mid-’70s adaptation of Bible stories you are listed as the “Resident Biblical Scholar.” What is your academic background? BRIDWELL: I never went to college. But I read a lot. JP: Are you a fan of Otto Binder’s work on “Captain Marvel”? BRIDWELL: Yes, his stories were fantastic! I also enjoyed his “Jon Jarl” text stories that appeared in Captain Marvel Adventures. JP: If you could work on any comic book character(s), from any company, old or new, alive or defunct, other than any of those that you have already written, who would they be? BRIDWELL: Well, I dropped the names of a couple of them in Super Friends #5: Larry Davis (Funnyman) and Linda Turner (Black Cat). I just liked them.

JP: You were a temporary consultant for Filmation Studios when they produced the Shazam! TV show. To what extent was your involvement? BRIDWELL: I went over some of the early scripts and occasionally a line of mine found its way into a story. JP: Did Carmine Infantino design all the covers during his tenure as DC publisher? BRIDWELL: Not all of the covers, but a majority of them. JP: Who designed the Shazam! covers after Infantino was fired? BRIDWELL: Usually Joe Orlando or Kurt Schaffenberger. Sometimes I sat in on the cover discussions. JP: Who originally conceived the Superman story, “Make Way For Captain Thunder?” [Superman #276; also reprinted in Best of DC #16]. BRIDWELL: Julie Schwartz conceived the story after we were told we couldn’t team up the two characters at the time, which was still prior to us actually owning the rights to the Fawcett characters.

E. Nelson Bridwell BRIDWELL: Kid Eternity, Black Cat, Sheena, Popeye, Dick Tracy, Flash Gordon, Tarzan, Buck Rogers, and later Funnyman. JP: What is your all-time favorite “Captain Marvel” story? BRIDWELL: That’s a very tough question. There are so many gems. Probably “The Plot Against The Universe!” and “The Mistake of Father Time” would be near the top, as well as the “Monster Society” serial. JP: What about your favorite comics artists? BRIDWELL: Swan, Adams, Giordano, Schaffenberger, Williamson, Mayer, Davis, Drucker, Frazetta, Eisner, Cole, Evans, Kubert, Beck, Severin, Wood, Crandall, Kirby, Oksner, Caniff… I could go on and on! JP: How about Carl Barks? BRIDWELL: Yes, I love Barks’ stuff. I still cherish the original edition of “Christmas on Bear Mountain,” which introduced Uncle Scrooge. I bought it when it first came out. JP: Which of the “Captain Marvel” supporting characters do you like the best, and why? BRIDWELL: Hard to say. I like Shazam and Mr. Tawny… for totally different reasons. And Beautia for still another reason! JP: When did you first learn that you would be working on the revival of Captain Marvel and what was your immediate reaction?

JP: Whose artistic version of Superman is your favorite?

BRIDWELL: When Julie got the word he was to edit, he told me I would be helping. I was, of course, delighted… ecstatic! JP: Other than comics, what do you like to read? Favorite authors?

BRIDWELL: Swan’s. JP: What do you think of the Marvel Comics style of writing? BRIDWELL: I’ve tried doing the panel-by-panel breakdown, and then dialoguing the pencils… it worked fine. But having the artist break down a brief plot line could bring headaches, though some are doing it successfully. JP: Were you assigned to write the “Mary Marvel” and “Captain Marvel Jr.” stories, or did you request to write them?

BRIDWELL: My literary tastes are very broad. A few of my many favorites include Shakespeare, Lewis Carroll, Bradbury, Poe, Gilbert & Sullivan, H. Rider Haggard, Twain, Baum, Ogden Nash, Kipling, Damon Runyon, Stevenson, and on and on… JP: Do you miss the task of selecting reprints regularly? BRIDWELL: Not particularly. I did it for so many years; it did indeed become a bit of a job.

BRIDWELL: Originally, Maggin had the assignment, but for some reason he couldn’t get started with “Mary Marvel,” so I was asked. Later, when Maggin dropped “Junior,” I again took over his stories. Incidentally, the “Paper Armor” Cap Jr. story I wrote in Shazam! #15 (Nov./Dec., 1974) was based on a dream I had. JP: Have you ever dreamt any other stories? [NOTE: Doesn’t this bring back echoes of Gardner Fox in “Flash of Two Worlds”?! —JP.]

JP: In Shazam! #30, The Marvel Family sang a song… any music for it? BRIDWELL: Only in my head, but I can’t write it down. The first three lines of the songs are in Marvel Family #2. The others are in Marvel Family #1. JP: Can you give any one specific reason why “Captain Marvel” hasn’t been successful at DC?

BRIDWELL: That’s the only time I ever lived Fox’s fantasy.

BRIDWELL: We started off on the wrong foot. We didn’t make him heroic enough.

JP: Which is the easiest feature you’ve written?

JP: Are you pessimistic about the future of comics?

BRIDWELL: Probably “Captain Marvel.”

BRIDWELL: No. I just think we need new ideas… but we’ll get it!

JP: Other than the DC and Fawcett lines, what were some of your other favorites during your childhood?

The Creative Artist As A Prostitute

The Creative Artist As A Prostitute by C.C. Beck Edited By P.C. Hamerlinck [FCA proudly presents another previously unpublished essay written by the original Captain Marvel’s chief artist, C.C. Beck. The following piece was written in December 1988 for Beck’s debate-by-mail group, The Critical Circle, whose members included Dick Lupoff, Jim Amash, Trina Robbins, and P.C. Hamerlinck.]

Recently, I submitted several short science-fiction stories to the editor of Analog magazine. They were returned with a polite refusal and the advice that if I wanted to sell stories to Analog I would be better off reading a few of their current issues and then try to imitate the stories in them. Several years ago I had contacted Fret, a magazine devoted to guitar playing, asking for their specifications of what the readers of the publication liked. In reply, I got a nicely-printed sheet detailing guidelines for articles submitted by freelance writers and a copy of the magazine itself. After looking over the material I decided that what I wanted to say about guitar playing was not what the publication’s readers wanted to hear—or more correctly not what the editor thought they wanted to hear—so I never submitted any material to this magazine. The creative artist as a prostitute? Cartoon by Beck, originally printed in FCA #16 (FCA/SOB #5), Jan. 1981. [Art ©2002 estate of C.C. Beck.]

In the comic book world, it is a well known fact that I cannot bring myself to write or draw the sort of material that is being published today. The belief in ugly realism, in needless violence and sex, and in morbid and defeatist stories is quite against all I believe that comic stories should be… and I will not prostitute myself and my art just to please an editor who thinks that this sort of material is what the public wants. There is always a certain portion of the public that will desire trash, drivel, and sleaze. Magazines like Penthouse and Screw have many readers, just as The Morton Downey Show and mud-wrestling have their followers. But does this mean that young writers and television actors should imitate the lowest publications and the worst programs and never attempt anything better? Back at the dawn of the Golden Age of Comics, both “Superman” and “Captain Marvel” were different from what had, until then, been published in pulp magazines. They were alive, exciting, and totally unlike the dreary, mechanically written detective, confession, and adventure stories of the day. Both characters were in comic strip form, both were written and illustrated by people who wanted to do their own things and not simply follow the instructions of publishers who believed only in imitating the products of their competitors. “Superman” was a big hit right from the start, much to the surprise of its publisher. As is well known, control was soon taken away from Superman’s creators and placed in the hands of editors, writers, and

artists who degraded the stories and art until “Superman” was a cranked-out, mechanical feature just as dull and meaningless as the stories in the old pulp magazines it had replaced. Much the same thing happened to “Captain Marvel.” By the early ’50s both features were about ready for the junk pile, and Fawcett Publications discontinued “Captain Marvel.” National/DC Comics stayed in the business and is still one of the leaders in the field, but its sales are, like all comic book sales, far below what they were at the peak of the Golden Age. Should a writer or artist try to find a publisher who will accept the kind of stories and art that they produce, or should they try to produce the kind of stories and art that will please an editor who thinks he knows what the public wants? Haven’t all the outstanding successes in writing and art really been grand surprises to their publishers, who were intent on publishing whatever was popular at the time? Gone with the Wind was turned down by every publisher in the business and, when it finally appeared on the stands, became a best seller. The Tarzan books and movies, when they were in the hands of Edgar Rice Burroughs himself, were worldwide successes; but when certain producers got hold of the Lord of the Jungle, he became a miserable flop. Many other famous characters and stories followed the same route to oblivion. One would suppose that nobody in his right mind would deliberately

C.C. Beck

produce a product that nobody wanted. Every writer or artist hopes to please somebody; only a fool would submit a story advocating gun confiscation and destruction to the publisher of a magazine devoted to gun lovers and hunters. Only an idiot would send an article advocating abortion to the publisher of an anti-abortion magazine. But should a writer who believes in gun control change his style and advocate complete freedom in gun possession and use just to please some editor? The late Don Newton had a hard time getting into the comic book field as an artist. By the time DC Comics put him to work illustrating the revived “Captain Marvel” stories, he was as old as I had been when “Captain Marvel” had been discontinued by Fawcett over twenty years earlier. Don once wrote an article for me to publish in FCA/SOB. I was reluctant to publish it because it was so depressing. Newton said that to be successful as a comic book artist you had to work like a dog. There was no fun involved. You slavishly did whatever your boss told you to do. Newton said that taste, artistic principles, and creative talent were not wanted in today’s comic book work; pleasing your editor and publisher was all that counted. Was Don Newton right? Is the way to become a big success in writing or art just to do whatever some low, unprincipled editor or publisher will pay you to do? Isn’t the pay for this kind of work usually

very low—lower than that of a bag boy in a grocery store or a waitress at a fast food restaurant? Or even the pay of a miserable street-walking hooker? During the thirteen years I spent illustrating “Captain Marvel” I seldom did what the publisher wanted. What Fawcett wanted was an imitation of “Superman,” but the editors, writers, and many of the artists refused to give it to him. Some of the freelance studios and the movie studios, however, produced “Captain Marvel” work that was no more than a poor imitation of the worst features of “Superman.” This work, and the gradual running down of the whole cape-and-tights-wearinghero craze, caused Captain Marvel’s career to come to an end in 1953. DC’s attempt to revive him 20 years later was unsuccessful because DC refused to let any of the original writers supply stories, and I refused, after a few issues, to illustrate the poorly-written stories DC’s writers provided. Should I—or any writer or artist—be so anxious to please people that he will do anything requested of him, even though it turns his stomach? Isn’t such behavior prostitution? Would you rather struggle along slavishly doing something you hate… or get out of the business completely and do something else? Many people have pointed out to me that my way is the best way to become unemployed and acquire a bad name in the trade, which is probably true. I stopped working for DC the same year I started working for them. Some felt I was wrong to quit, but I’ve never regretted it.

Now—FLIP US for our LOU FINE Section!

Edited by ROY THOMAS

DIGITAL

The greatest ‘zine of the 1960s is back, ALL-NEW, and focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with NS EDITIO BLE ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, A IL AVA NLY UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FOR O 5 FCA (Fawcett Collectors of $2.9 America, featuring the archives of C.C. BECK and recollections by Fawcett artist MARCUS SWAYZE), Michael T. Gilbert’s MR. MONSTER, and more!

EISNER AWARD WINNER for Best Comics-Related Periodical

Go online for an ULTIMATE BUNDLE, with issues at HALF-PRICE!

ALTER EGO #4

ALTER EGO #5

ALTER EGO #1

ALTER EGO #2

ALTER EGO #3

STAN LEE gets roasted by SCHWARTZ, CLAREMONT, DAVID, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, and SHOOTER, ORDWAY and THOMAS on INFINITY, INC., IRWIN HASEN interview, unseen H.G. PETER Wonder Woman pages, the original Captain Marvel and Human Torch teamup, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, “Mr. Monster”, plus plenty of rare and unpublished art!

Featuring a never-reprinted SPIRIT story by WILL EISNER, the genesis of the SILVER AGE ATOM (with GARDNER FOX, GIL KANE, and JULIE SCHWARTZ), interviews with LARRY LIEBER and Golden Age great JACK BURNLEY, BOB KANIGHER, a new Fawcett Collectors of America section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, and more! GIL KANE and JACK BURNLEY flip-covers!

Unseen ALEX ROSS and JERRY ORDWAY Shazam! art, 1953 interview with OTTO BINDER, the SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL LAWSUIT, GIL KANE on The Golden Age of TIMELY COMICS, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, rare art by AYERS, BERG, BURNLEY, DITKO, RICO, SCHOMBURG, MARIE SEVERIN and more! ALEX ROSS & BILL EVERETT covers!

(80-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #6

ALTER EGO #7

ALTER EGO #8

Interviews with KUBERT, SHELLY MOLDOFF, and HARRY LAMPERT, BOB KANIGHER, life and times of GARDNER FOX, ROY THOMAS remembers GIL KANE, a history of Flash Comics, MOEBIUS Silver Surfer sketches, MR. MONSTER, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, and lots more! Dual color covers by JOE KUBERT!

Celebrating the JSA, with interviews with MART NODELL, SHELLY MAYER, GEORGE ROUSSOS, BILL BLACK, and GIL KANE, unpublished H.G. PETER Wonder Woman art, GARDNER FOX, an FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, WENDELL CROWLEY, and more! Wraparound cover by CARMINE INFANTINO and JERRY ORDWAY!

GENE COLAN interview, 1940s books on comics by STAN LEE and ROBERT KANIGHER, AYERS, SEVERIN, and ROY THOMAS on Sgt. Fury, ROY on All-Star Squadron’s Golden Age roots, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, JOE SIMON interview, a definitive look at MAC RABOY’S work, and more! Covers by COLAN and RABOY!

Companion to ALL-STAR COMPANION book, with a JULIE SCHWARTZ interview, guide to JLA-JSA TEAMUPS, origins of the ALL-STAR SQUADRON, FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK (on his 1970s DC conflicts), DAVE BERG, BOB ROGERS, more on MAC RABOY from his son, MR. MONSTER, and more! RICH BUCKLER and C.C. BECK covers!

WALLY WOOD biography, DAN ADKINS & BILL PEARSON on Wood, TOR section with 1963 JOE KUBERT interview, ROY THOMAS on creating the ALL-STAR SQUADRON and its 1940s forebears, FCA section with SWAYZE & BECK, MR. MONSTER, JERRY ORDWAY on Shazam!, JERRY DeFUCCIO on the Golden Age, CHIC STONE remembered! ADKINS and KUBERT covers!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #9

ALTER EGO #10

ALTER EGO #11

ALTER EGO #12

ALTER EGO #13

JOHN ROMITA interview by ROY THOMAS (with unseen art), Roy’s PROPOSED DREAM PROJECTS that never got published (with a host of great artists), MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING’S life after Superman, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom Panel, FCA section with GEORGE TUSKA, C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, BILL MORRISON, & more! ROMITA and GIORDANO covers!

Who Created the Silver Age Flash? (with KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and SCHWARTZ), DICK AYERS interview (with unseen art), JOHN BROOME remembered, never-seen Golden Age Flash pages, VIN SULLIVAN Magazine Enterprises interview, FCA, interview with FRED GUARDINEER, and MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING! INFANTINO and AYERS covers!

Focuses on TIMELY/MARVEL (interviews and features on SYD SHORES, MICKEY SPILLANE, and VINCE FAGO), and MAGAZINE ENTERPRISES (including JOE CERTA, JOHN BELFI, FRANK BOLLE, BOB POWELL, and FRED MEAGHER), MR. MONSTER on JERRY SIEGEL, DON and MAGGIE THOMPSON interview, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and DON NEWTON!

DC and QUALITY COMICS focus! Quality’s GILL FOX interview, never-seen ‘40s PAUL REINMAN Green Lantern story, ROY THOMAS talks to LEN WEIN and RICH BUCKLER about ALL-STAR SQUADRON, MR. MONSTER shows what made WALLY WOOD leave MAD, FCA section with BECK & SWAYZE, & ‘65 NEWSWEEK ARTICLE on comics! REINMAN and BILL WARD covers!

1974 panel with JOE SIMON, STAN LEE, FRANK ROBBINS, and ROY THOMAS, ROY and JOHN BUSCEMA on Avengers, 1964 STAN LEE interview, tributes to DON HECK, JOHNNY CRAIG, and GRAY MORROW, Timely alums DAVID GANTZ and DANIEL KEYES, and FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and MIKE MANLEY! Covers by MURPHY ANDERSON and JOE SIMON!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #14

ALTER EGO #15

ALTER EGO #16

ALTER EGO #17

ALTER EGO #18

A look at the 1970s JSA revival with CONWAY, LEVITZ, ESTRADA, GIFFEN, MILGROM, and STATON, JERRY ORDWAY on All-Star Squadron, tributes to CRAIG CHASE and DAN DeCARLO, “lost” 1945 issue of All-Star, 1970 interview with LEE ELIAS, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, & JAY DISBROW! MIKE NASSER & MICHAEL GILBERT covers!

JOHN BUSCEMA ISSUE! BUSCEMA interview (with UNSEEN ART), reminiscences by SAL BUSCEMA, STAN LEE, INFANTINO, KUBERT, ORDWAY, FLO STEINBERG, and HERB TRIMPE, ROY THOMAS on 35 years with BIG JOHN, FCA tribute to KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, plus C.C. BECK and MARC SWAYZE, and MR. MONSTER revisits WALLY WOOD! Two BUSCEMA covers!

MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION (BUSCEMA, COLAN, ROMITA, and SEVERIN), memories of the JOHN BUSCEMA SCHOOL, FCA with ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK, and MARC SWAYZE, tribute to CHAD GROTHKOPF, MR. MONSTER on EC COMICS with art by KURTZMAN, DAVIS, and WOOD, and more! Covers by ALEX ROSS and MARIE SEVERIN & RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlighting LOU FINE (with an overview of his career, and interviews with family members), interview with MURPHY ANDERSON about Fine, ALEX TOTH on Fine, ARNOLD DRAKE interviewed about DEADMAN and DOOM PATROL, MR. MONSTER on the non-EC work of JACK DAVIS and GEORGE EVANS, FINE and LUIS DOMINGUEZ COVERS, FCA and more!

STAN GOLDBERG interview, secrets of ‘40s Timely, art by KIRBY, DITKO, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, MANEELY, EVERETT, BURGOS, and DeCARLO, spotlight on sci-fi fanzine XERO with the LUPOFFS, OTTO BINDER, DON THOMPSON, ROY THOMAS, BILL SCHELLY, and ROGER EBERT, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD ghosting Flash Gordon! KIRBY and SWAYZE covers!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #19

ALTER EGO #20

ALTER EGO #21

ALTER EGO #22

ALTER EGO #23

Spotlight on DICK SPRANG (profile and interview) with unseen art, rare Batman art by BOB KANE, CHARLES PARIS, SHELLY MOLDOFF, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, JIM MOONEY, CARMINE INFANTINO, and ALEX TOTH, JERRY ROBINSON interviewed about Tomahawk and 1940s cover artist FRED RAY, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD’s Flash Gordon, Part 2!

Timely/Marvel art by SEKOWSKY, SHORES, EVERETT, and BURGOS, secrets behind THE INVADERS with ROY THOMAS, KIRBY, GIL KANE, & ROBBINS, BOB DESCHAMPS interviewed, 1965 NY Comics Con review, panel with FINGER, BINDER, FOX and WEISINGER, MR. MONSTER, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, RABOY, SCHAFFENBERGER, and more! MILGROM and SCHELLY covers!

The IGER “SHOP” examined, with art by EISNER, FINE, ANDERSON, CRANDALL, BAKER, MESKIN, CARDY, EVANS, BOB KANE, and TUSKA, “SHEENA” section with art by DAVE STEVENS & FRANK BRUNNER, ROY THOMAS on JSA & All-Star Squadron, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, UNSEEN 1946 ALL-STAR ART, FCA, and more! DAVE STEVENS and IRWIN HASEN covers!

BILL EVERETT and JOE KUBERT interviewed by NEAL ADAMS and GIL KANE in 1970, Timely art by BURGOS, SHORES, NODELL, and SEKOWSKY, RUDY LAPICK, ROY THOMAS on Sub-Mariner, with art by EVERETT, COLAN, ANDRU, BUSCEMAs, SEVERINs, and more, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD at EC, ALEX TOTH, and CAPT. MIDNIGHT! EVERETT & BECK covers!

Unseen art from TWO “LOST” 1940s H.G. PETER WONDER WOMAN STORIES (and analysis of “CHARLES MOULTON” scripts), BOB FUJITANI and JOHN ROSENBERGER, VICTOR GORELICK discusses Archie and The Mighty Crusaders, with art by MORROW, BUCKLER, and REINMAN, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD! H.G. PETER and BOB FUJITANI covers!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #24

ALTER EGO #25

ALTER EGO #26

ALTER EGO #27

ALTER EGO #28

X-MEN interviews with STAN LEE, DAVE COCKRUM, CHRIS CLAREMONT, ARNOLD DRAKE, JIM SHOOTER, ROY THOMAS, and LEN WEIN, MORT MESKIN profiled by his sons and ALEX TOTH, rare art by JERRY ROBINSON, FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY on Comics Fandom! MESKIN and COCKRUM covers!

JACK COLE remembered by ALEX TOTH, interview with brother DICK COLE and his PLAYBOY colleagues, CHRIS CLAREMONT on the X-Men (with more never-seen art by DAVE COCKRUM), ROY THOMAS on AllStar Squadron #1 and its ‘40s roots (with art by ORDWAY, BUCKLER, MESKIN and MOLDOFF), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by TOTH and SCHELLY!

JOE SINNOTT interview, IRWIN DONENFELD interview by EVANIER & SCHWARTZ, art by SHUSTER, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, and SWAN, MARK WAID analyzes the first Kryptonite story, JERRY SIEGEL and HARRY DONENFELD, JERRY IGER Shop update, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and KEN BALD! Covers by SINNOTT and WAYNE BORING!

VIN SULLIVAN interview about the early DC days with art by SHUSTER, MOLDOFF, FLESSEL, GUARDINEER, and BURNLEY, MR. MONSTER’s “Lost” KIRBY HULK covers, 1948 NEW YORK COMIC CON with STAN LEE, SIMON & KIRBY, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, HARVEY KURTZMAN, and ROY THOMAS, ALEX TOTH, FCA, and more! Covers by JACK BURNLEY and JACK KIRBY!

Spotlight on JOE MANEELY, with a career overview, remembrance by his daughter and tons of art, Timely/Atlas/Marvel art by ROMITA, EVERETT, SEVERIN, SHORES, KIRBY, and DITKO, STAN LEE on Maneely, LEE AMES interview, FCA with SWAYZE, ISIS, and STEVE SKEATES, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Covers by JOE MANEELY and DON NEWTON!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #29

ALTER EGO #30

ALTER EGO #31

ALTER EGO #32

ALTER EGO #33

FRANK BRUNNER interview, BILL EVERETT’S Venus examined by TRINA ROBBINS, Classics Illustrated “What ifs”, LEE/KIRBY/DITKO Marvel prototypes, JOE MANEELY’s monsters, BILL FRACCIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, JOHN BENSON on EC, The Heap by ERNIE SCHROEDER, and FCA! Covers by FRANK BRUNNER and PETE VON SHOLLY!

ALEX ROSS on his love for the JLA, BLACKHAWK/JLA artist DICK DILLIN, the super-heroes of 1940s-1980s France (with art by STEVE RUDE, STEVE BISSETTE, LADRÖNN, and NEAL ADAMS), KIM AAMODT & WALTER GEIER on writing for SIMON & KIRBY, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA! Covers by ALEX ROSS and STEVE RUDE!

DICK AYERS on his 1950s and ‘60s work (with tons of Marvel Bullpen art), HARLAN ELLISON’s Marvel Age work examined (with art by BUCKLER, SAL BUSCEMA, and TRIMPE), STAN LEE’S Marvel Prototypes (with art by KIRBY and DITKO), Christmas cards from comics greats, MR. MONSTER, & FCA with SWAYZE and SCHAFFENBERGER! Covers by DICK AYERS and FRED RAY!

Timely artists ALLEN BELLMAN and SAM BURLOCKOFF interviewed, MART NODELL on his Timely years, rare art by BURGOS, EVERETT, and SHORES, MIKE GOLD on the Silver Age (with art by SIMON & KIRBY, SWAN, INFANTINO, KANE, and more), FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Covers by DICK GIORDANO and GIL KANE!

Symposium on MIKE SEKOWSKY by MARK EVANIER, SCOTT SHAW!, et al., with art by ANDERSON, INFANTINO, and others, PAT (MRS. MIKE) SEKOWSKY and inker VALERIE BARCLAY interviewed, FCA, 1950s Captain Marvel parody by ANDRU and ESPOSITO, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by FRENZ/SINNOTT and FRENZ/BUSCEMA!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(108-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #34

ALTER EGO #35

ALTER EGO #36

ALTER EGO #37

ALTER EGO #38

Quality Comics interviews with ALEX KOTZKY, AL GRENET, CHUCK CUIDERA, & DICK ARNOLD (son of BUSY ARNOLD), art by COLE, EISNER, FINE, WARD, DILLIN, and KANE, MICHELLE NOLAN on Blackhawk’s jump to DC, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on HARVEY KURTZMAN, & ALEX TOTH on REED CRANDALL! Covers by REED CRANDALL & CHARLES NICHOLAS!

Covers by JOHN ROMITA and AL JAFFEE! LEE, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, & THOMAS on the 1953-55 Timely super-hero revival, with rare art by ROMITA, AYERS, BURGOS, HEATH, EVERETT, LAWRENCE, & POWELL, AL JAFFEE on the 1940s Timely Bullpen (and MAD), FCA, ALEX TOTH on comic art, MR. MONSTER on unpublished 1950s covers, and more!

JOE SIMON on SIMON & KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, and LLOYD JACQUET, JOHN BELL on World War II Canadian heroes, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on Canadian origins of MR. MONSTER, tributes to BOB DESCHAMPS, DON LAWRENCE, & GEORGE WOODBRIDGE, FCA, ALEX TOTH, and ELMER WEXLER interview! Covers by SIMON and GILBERT & RONN SUTTON!

WILL MURRAY on the 1940 Superman “KMetal” story & PHILIP WYLIE’s GLADIATOR (with art by SHUSTER, SWAN, ADAMS, and BORING), FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and DON NEWTON, SY BARRY interview, art by TOTH, MESKIN, INFANTINO, and ANDERSON, and MICHAEL T. GILBERT interviews AL FELDSTEIN on EC and RAY BRADBURY! Covers by C.C. BECK and WAYNE BORING!

JULIE SCHWARTZ TRIBUTE with HARLAN ELLISON, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, KUBERT, GIELLA, GIORDANO, CARDY, LEVITZ, STAN LEE, WOLFMAN, EVANIER, & ROY THOMAS, never-seen interviews with Julie, FCA with BECK, SCHAFFENBERGER, NEWTON, COCKRUM, OKSNER, FRADON, SWAYZE, and JACKSON BOSTWICK! Covers by INFANTINO and IRWIN HASEN!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #39

ALTER EGO #40

ALTER EGO #41

ALTER EGO #42

ALTER EGO #43

Full-issue spotlight on JERRY ROBINSON, with an interview on being BOB KANE’s Batman “ghost”, creating the JOKER and ROBIN, working on VIGILANTE, GREEN HORNET, and ATOMAN, plus never-seen art by Jerry, MESKIN, ROUSSOS, RAY, KIRBY, SPRANG, DITKO, and PARIS! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER on AL FELDSTEIN Part 2, and more! Two JERRY ROBINSON covers!

RUSS HEATH and GIL KANE interviews (with tons of unseen art), the JULIE SCHWARTZ Memorial Service with ELLISON, MOORE, GAIMAN, HASEN, O’NEIL, and LEVITZ, art by INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, NOVICK, DILLIN, SEKOWSKY, KUBERT, GIELLA, ARAGONÉS, FCA, MR. MONSTER and AL FELDSTEIN Part 3, and more! Covers by GIL KANE & RUSS HEATH!

Halloween issue! BERNIE WRIGHTSON on his 1970s FRANKENSTEIN, DICK BRIEFER’S monster, the campy 1960s Frankie, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, and SUTTON, FCA #100, EMILIO SQUEGLIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more! Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE!

A celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, and AYERS, Hillman and Ziff-Davis remembered by Heap artist ERNIE SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and ALEX TOTH! Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER!

Yuletide art by WOOD, SINNOTT, CARDY, BRUNNER, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Flip covers by GEORGE TUSKA and DAVE STEVENS!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #44

ALTER EGO #45

ALTER EGO #46

ALTER EGO #47

ALTER EGO #48

JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special! Interviews with KUBERT, HASEN, ANDERSON, ORDWAY, BUCKLER, THOMAS, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, MACHLAN, OKSNER, and INFANTINO, FCA, and MR. MONSTER’S “I Like Ike!” cartoons by BOB KANE, INFANTINO, OKSNER, and BIRO! Wraparound ORDWAY cover!

Interviews with Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and ‘40s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, and AYERS, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, OTTO BINDER’s “lost” Jon Jarl story, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and ALEX TOTH! CREIG FLESSEL cover!

The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, JERRY BAILS, and ROY THOMAS, LOU GLANZMAN interview, tributes to IRV NOVICK and CHRIS REEVE, MR. MONSTER, FCA, TOTH, and more! Cover by EVERETT and MARIE SEVERIN!

Spotlights MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY! Career overview, interviews with BAKER’s half-brother and nephew, art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN and others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to comic-book-seller (and fan) BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER on missing AL WILLIAMSON art, and ALEX TOTH!

WILL EISNER discusses Eisner & Iger’s Shop and BUSY ARNOLD’s ‘40s Quality Comics, art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, POWELL, and CARDY, EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others, interviews with ‘40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL and CHUCK MAZOUJIAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER on EISNER’s Wonder Man, ALEX TOTH, and more with BUD PLANT! EISNER cover!

(100-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #49

ALTER EGO #50

ALTER EGO #51

ALTER EGO #52

ALTER EGO #53

Spotlights CARL BURGOS! Interview with daughter SUE BURGOS, art by BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, MIKE SEKOWSKY, ED ASCHE, and DICK AYERS, unused 1941 Timely cover layouts, the 1957 Atlas Implosion examined, MANNY STALLMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER and more! New cover by MARK SPARACIO, from an unused 1941 layout by CARL BURGOS!

ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics (AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters to GARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA and JERRY ORDWAY!

Golden Age Batman artist/BOB KANE ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, Batman art by JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, SHELDON MOLDOFF, WIN MORTIMER, JIM MOONEY, and others, the Golden and Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WILL EISNER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE and CHARLES BIRO, MARTIN THALL interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! GIELLA cover!

GIORDANO and THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, BILL SCHELLY, ALEX TOTH, and MR. MONSTER! Cover by GIORDANO!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #54

ALTER EGO #55

ALTER EGO #56

ALTER EGO #57

ALTER EGO #58

MIKE ESPOSITO on DC and Marvel, ROBERT KANIGHER on the creation of Metal Men and Sgt. Rock (with comments by JOE KUBERT and BOB HANEY), art by ANDRU, INFANTINO, KIRBY, SEVERIN, WINDSOR-SMITH, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, TRIMPE, GIL KANE, and others, plus FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! ESPOSITO cover!

JACK and OTTO BINDER, KEN BALD, VIC DOWD, and BOB BOYAJIAN interviewed, FCA with SWAYZE and EMILIO SQUEGLIO, rare art by BECK, WARD, & SCHAFFENBERGER, Christmas Cards from CRANDALL, SINNOTT, HEATH, MOONEY, and CARDY, 1943 Pin-Up Calendar (with ‘40s movie stars as superheroines), ALEX TOTH, more! ALEX ROSS and ALEX WRIGHT covers!

Interviews with Superman creators SIEGEL & SHUSTER, Golden/Silver Age DC production guru JACK ADLER interviewed, NEAL ADAMS and radio/TV iconoclast (and comics fan) HOWARD STERN on Adler and his amazing career, art by CURT SWAN, WAYNE BORING, and AL PLASTINO, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more! NEAL ADAMS cover!

Issue-by-issue index of Timely/Atlas superhero stories by MICHELLE NOLAN, art by SIMON & KIRBY, EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, SEKOWSKY, SHORES, SCHOMBURG, MANEELY, and SEVERIN, GENE COLAN and ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely super-heroes, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY! Cover by JACK KIRBY and PETE VON SHOLLY!

GERRY CONWAY and ROY THOMAS on their ‘80s screenplay for “The X-Men Movie That Never Was!”with art by COCKRUM, ADAMS, BUSCEMA, BYRNE, GIL KANE, KIRBY, HECK, and LIEBER, Atlas artist VIC CARRABOTTA interview, ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely bullpen, FCA, 1966 panel on 1950s EC Comics, and MR. MONSTER! MARK SPARACIO/GIL KANE cover!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #59

ALTER EGO #60

ALTER EGO #61

ALTER EGO #62

ALTER EGO #63

Special issue on Batman and Superman in the Golden and Silver Ages, featuring a new ARTHUR SUYDAM interview, NEAL ADAMS on DC in the 1960s-1970s, SHELLY MOLDOFF, AL PLASTINO, Golden Age artist FRAN (Doll Man) MATERA interviewed, SIEGEL & SHUSTER, RUSS MANNING, FCA, MR. MONSTER, SUYDAM cover, and more!

Celebrates 50 years since SHOWCASE #4! FLASH interviews with SCHWARTZ, KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and BROOME, Golden Age artist TONY DiPRETA, 1966 panel with NORDLING, BINDER, and LARRY IVIE, FCA, MR. MONSTER, never-before-published color Flash cover by CARMINE INFANTINO, and more!

History of the AMERICAN COMICS GROUP (1946 to 1967)—including its roots in the Golden Age SANGOR ART SHOP and STANDARD/NEDOR comics! Art by MESKIN, ROBINSON, WILLIAMSON, FRAZETTA, SCHAFFENBERGER, & BUSCEMA, ACG writer/editor RICHARD HUGHES, plus AL HARTLEY interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! GIORDANO cover!

HAPPY HAUNTED HALLOWEEN ISSUE, featuring: MIKE PLOOG and RUDY PALAIS on their horror-comics work! AL WILLIAMSON on his work for the American Comics Group—plus more on ACG horror comics! Rare DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strips! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on the 1966 KalerCon, a new PLOOG cover—and more!

Tribute to ALEX TOTH! Never-before-seen interview with tons of TOTH art, including sketches he sent to friends! Articles about Toth by TERRY AUSTIN, JIM AMASH, SY BARRY, JOE KUBERT, LOU SAYRE SCHWARTZ, IRWIN HASEN, JOHN WORKMAN, and others! Plus illustrated Christmas cards by comics pros, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #64

ALTER EGO #65

ALTER EGO #66

ALTER EGO #67

ALTER EGO #68

Fawcett Favorites! Issue-by-issue analysis of BINDER & BECK’s 1943-45 “The Monster Society of Evil!” serial, double-size FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, EMILIO SQUEGLIO, C.C. BECK, MAC RABOY, and others! Interview with MARTIN FILCHOCK, Golden Age artist for Centaur Comics! Plus MR. MONSTER, DON NEWTON cover, plus a FREE 1943 MARVEL CALENDAR!

NICK CARDY interviewed on his Golden & Silver Age work (with CARDY art), plus art by WILL EISNER, NEAL ADAMS, CARMINE INFANTINO, JIM APARO, RAMONA FRADON, CURT SWAN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, and others, tributes to ERNIE SCHROEDER and DAVE COCKRUM, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, new CARDY COVER, and more!

Spotlight on BOB POWELL, the artist who drew Daredevil, Sub-Mariner, Sheena, The Avenger, The Hulk, Giant-Man, and others, plus art by WALLY WOOD, HOWARD NOSTRAND, DICK AYERS, SIMON & KIRBY, MARTIN GOODMAN’s Magazine Management, and others! FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

Interview with BOB OKSNER, artist of Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Angel and the Ape, Leave It to Binky, Shazam!, and more, plus art and artifacts by SHELLY MAYER, IRWIN HASEN, LEE ELIAS, C.C. BECK, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, JULIE SCHWARTZ, etc., FCA with MARC SWAYZE & C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on BOB POWELL Part II, and more!

Tribute to JERRY BAILS—Father of Comics Fandom and founder of Alter Ego! Cover by GEORGE PÉREZ, plus art by JOE KUBERT, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, DICK DILLIN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JERRY ORDWAY, JOE STATON, JACK KIRBY, and others! Plus STEVE DITKO’s notes to STAN LEE for a 1965 Dr. Strange story! And ROY reveals secrets behind Marvel’s STAR WARS comic!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #69

ALTER EGO #70

ALTER EGO #71

ALTER EGO #72

ALTER EGO #73

PAUL NORRIS drew AQUAMAN first, in 1941—and RAMONA FRADON was the hero’s ultimate Golden Age artist. But both drew other things as well, and both are interviewed in this landmark issue—along with a pocket history of Aquaman! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more! Cover painted by JOHN WATSON, from a breathtaking illo by RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlight on ROY THOMAS’ 1970s stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief and major writer, plus art and reminiscences of GIL KANE, BOTH BUSCEMAS, ADAMS, ROMITA, CHAYKIN, BRUNNER, PLOOG, EVERETT, WRIGHTSON, PÉREZ, ROBBINS, BARRY SMITH, STAN LEE and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, a new GENE COLAN cover, plus an homage to artist LILY RENÉE!

Represents THE GREAT CANADIAN COMIC BOOKS, the long out-of-print 1970s book by MICHAEL HIRSH and PATRICK LOUBERT, with rare art of such heroes as Mr. Monster, Nelvana, Thunderfist, and others, plus new INVADERS art by JOHN BYRNE, MIKE GRELL, RON LIM, and more, plus a new cover by GEORGE FREEMAN, from a layout by JACK KIRBY!

SCOTT SHAW! and ROY THOMAS on the creation of Captain Carrot, art & artifacts by RICK HOBERG, STAN GOLDBERG, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOHN COSTANZA, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, CAROL LAY, and others, interview with DICK ROCKWELL, Golden Age artist and 36-year ghost artist on MILTON CANIFF’s Steve Canyon! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

FRANK BRUNNER on drawing Dr. Strange, interviews with CHARLES BIRO and his daughters, interview with publisher ROBERT GERSON about his 1970s horror comic Reality, art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, GRAHAM INGELS, HOWARD CHAYKIN, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, JEFF JONES, and others FCA, MR. MONSTER, a FREE DRAW! #15! PREVIEW, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #74

ALTER EGO #75

ALTER EGO #76

ALTER EGO #77

ALTER EGO #78

STAN LEE SPECIAL in honor of his 85th birthday, with a cover by JACK KIRBY, classic (and virtually unseen) interviews with Stan, tributes, and tons of rare and unseen art by KIRBY, ROMITA, the brothers BUSCEMA, DITKO, COLAN, HECK, AYERS, MANEELY, SHORES, EVERETT, BURGOS, KANE, the SEVERIN siblings—plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL—with an ALEX ROSS cover! Double-size FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with P.C. HAMERLINCK on the many “Captains Marvel” over the years, unseen Shazam! proposal by ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK on “The Death of a Legend!”, MARC SWAYZE, interview with Golden Age artist MARV LEVY, MR. MONSTER, and more!

JOE SIMON SPECIAL! In-depth SIMON interview by JIM AMASH, with neverbefore-revealed secrets behind the creation of Captain America, Fighting American, Stuntman, Adventures of The Fly, Sick magazine and more, art by JACK KIRBY, BOB POWELL, AL WILLIAMSON, JERRY GRANDENETTI, GEORGE TUSKA, and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

ST. JOHN ISSUE! Golden Age Tor cover by JOE KUBERT, KEN QUATTRO relates the full legend of St. John Publishing, art by KUBERT, NORMAN MAURER, MATT BAKER, LILY RENEE, BOB LUBBERS, RUBEN MOREIRA, RALPH MAYO, AL FAGO, special reminiscences of ARNOLD DRAKE, Golden Age artist TOM SAWYER interviewed, and more!

DAVE COCKRUM TRIBUTE! Great rare XMen cover, Cockrum tributes from contemporaries and colleagues, and an interview with PATY COCKRUM on Dave’s life and legacy on The Legion of Super-Heroes, The X-Men, Star-Jammers, & more! Plus an interview with 1950s Timely/Marvel artist MARION SITTON on his own incredible career and his Golden Age contemporaries!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #79

ALTER EGO #80

ALTER EGO #81

ALTER EGO #82

ALTER EGO #83

SUPERMAN & HIS CREATORS! New cover by MICHAEL GOLDEN, exclusive and revealing interview with JOE SHUSTER’s sister, JEAN SHUSTER PEAVEY—LOU CAMERON interview—STEVE GERBER tribute—DWIGHT DECKER on the Man of Steel & Hitler’s Third Reich—plus art by WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, NEAL ADAMS, GIL KANE, and others!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY COMICS! Learn about Crom the Barbarian, Viking Prince, Nightmaster, Kull, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, Beowulf, Warlord, Dagar the Invincible, and more, with art by FRAZETTA, SMITH, BUSCEMA, KANE, WRIGHTSON, PLOOG, THORNE, BRUNNER, LOU CAMERON Part II, and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

New FRANK BRUNNER Man-Thing cover, a look at the late-’60s horror comic WEB OF HORROR with early work by BRUNNER, WRIGHTSON, WINDSOR-SMITH, SIMONSON, & CHAYKIN, interview with comics & fine artist EVERETT RAYMOND KINTSLER, ROY THOMAS’ 1971 origin synopsis for the FIRST MAN-THING STORY, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

MLJ ISSUE! Golden Age MLJ index illustrated with vintage images of The Shield, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Black Hood, by IRV NOVICK, JACK COLE, CHARLES BIRO, MORT MESKIN, GIL KANE, & others—behind a marvelous MLJ-heroes cover by BOB McLEOD! Plus interviews with IRV NOVICK and JOE EDWARDS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

SWORD & SORCERY PART 2! Cover by ARTHUR SUYDAM, with a focus on Conan the Barbarian by ROY THOMAS and WILL MURRAY, a look at WALLY WOOD’s Marvel sword-&-sorcery work, the Black Knight examined, plus JOE EDWARDS interview Part 2, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #84

ALTER EGO #85

ALTER EGO #86

ALTER EGO #87

ALTER EGO #88

Unseen JIM APARO cover, STEVE SKEATES discusses his early comics work, art & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD, and the great WARREN SAVIN! Plus writer CHARLES SINCLAIR on his partnership with Batman co-creator BILL FINGER, FCA, and more!

Captain Marvel and Superman’s battles explored (in cosmic space, candy stores, and in court), RICH BUCKLER on Captain Marvel, plus an in-depth interview with Golden Age great LILY RENÉE, overview of CENTAUR COMICS (home of BILL EVERETT’s Amazing-Man and others), FCA, MR. MONSTER, new RICH BUCKLER cover, and more!

Spotlighting the Frantic Four-Color MAD WANNABES of 1953-55 that copied HARVEY KURTZMAN’S EC smash (see Captain Marble, Mighty Moose, Drag-ula, Prince Scallion, and more) with art by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT & MAURER, ANDRU & ESPOSITO, EVERETT, COLAN, and many others, plus Part 1 of a talk with Golden/ Silver Age artist FRANK BOLLE, and more!

The sensational 1954-1963 saga of Great Britain’s MARVELMAN (decades before he metamorphosed into Miracleman), plus an interview with writer/artist/co-creator MICK ANGLO, and rare Marvelman/ Miracleman work by ALAN DAVIS, ALAN MOORE, a new RICK VEITCH cover, plus FRANK BOLLE, Part 2, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

First-ever in-depth look at National/DC’s founder MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELERNICHOLSON, and pioneers WHITNEY ELLSWORTH and CREIG FLESSEL, with rare art and artifacts by SIEGEL & SHUSTER, BOB KANE, CURT SWAN, GARDNER FOX, SHELDON MOLDOFF, and others, focus on DC advisor DR. LAURETTA BENDER, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #89

ALTER EGO #90

ALTER EGO #91

ALTER EGO #92

ALTER EGO #93

HARVEY COMICS’ PRE-CODE HORROR MAGS OF THE 1950s! Interviews with SID JACOBSON, WARREN KREMER, and HOWARD NOSTRAND, plus Harvey artist KEN SELIG talks to JIM AMASH! MR. MONSTER presents the wit and wisdom (and worse) of DR. FREDRIC WERTHAM, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE, & more! SIMON & KIRBY and NOSTRAND cover!

BIG MARVEL ISSUE! Salutes to legends SINNOTT and AYERS—plus STAN LEE, TUSKA, EVERETT, MARTIN GOODMAN, and others! A look at the “Marvel SuperHeroes” TV animation of 1966! 1940s Timely writer and editor LEON LAZARUS interviewed by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, the 1960s fandom creations of STEVE GERBER, and more! JACK KIRBY holiday cover!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL! Big FCA section with Golden Age artists MARC SWAYZE & EMILIO SQUEGLIO! Plus JERRY ORDWAY on researching The Power of Shazam, Part II of “The MAD Four-Color Wannabes of the 1950s,” more on DR. LAURETTA BENDER and the teenage creations of STEVE GERBER, artist JACK KATZ spills Golden Age secrets to JIM AMASH, and more! New cover by ORDWAY and SQUEGLIO!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY, PART 3! DC’s Sword of Sorcery by O’NEIL, CHAYKIN, & SIMONSON and Claw by MICHELINIE & CHAN, Hercules by GLANZMAN, Dagar by GLUT & SANTOS, Marvel S&S art by BUSCEMA, CHAN, KAYANAN, WRIGHTSON, et al., and JACK KATZ on his classic First Kingdom! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER’s fan-creations (part 3), and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “EarthTwo—1961 to 1985!” with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, ANDERSON, DELBO, ANDRU, BUCKLER, APARO, GRANDENETTI, and DILLIN, interview with Golden/Silver Age DC editor GEORGE KASHDAN, plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and a new cover by INFANTINO and AMASH!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #94

ALTER EGO #95

ALTER EGO #96

ALTER EGO #97

ALTER EGO #98

“Earth-Two Companion, Part II!” More on the 1963-1985 series that changed comics forever! The Huntress, Power Girl, Dr. Fate, Freedom Fighters, and more, with art by ADAMS, APARO, AYERS, BUCKLER, GIFFEN, INFANTINO, KANE, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, SIMONSON, STATON, SWAN, TUSKA, our GEORGE KASHDAN interview Part 2, FCA, and more! STATON & GIORDANO cover!

Marvel’s NOT BRAND ECHH madcap parody mag from 1967-69, examined with rare art & artifacts by ANDRU, COLAN, BUSCEMA, DRAKE, EVERETT, FRIEDRICH, KIRBY, LEE, the SEVERIN siblings, SPRINGER, SUTTON, THOMAS, TRIMPE, and more, GEORGE KASHDAN interview conclusion, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MARIE SEVERIN!

Focus on Archie’s 1960s MIGHTY CRUSADERS, with vintage art and artifacts by JERRY SIEGEL, PAUL REINMAN, SIMON & KIRBY, JOHN ROSENBERGER, tributes to the Mighty Crusaders by BOB FUJITANE, GEORGE TUSKA, BOB LAYTON, and others! Interview with MELL LAZARUS, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and more! Cover by MIKE MACHLAN!

The NON-EC HORROR COMICS OF THE 1950s! From Menace and House of Mystery to The Thing!, we present vintage art and artifacts by EVERETT, BRIEFER, DITKO, MANEELY, COLAN , MESKIN, MOLDOFF, HEATH, POWELL, COLE, SIMON & KIRBY, FUJITANI, and others, plus FCA , MR. MONSTER and more, behind a creepy, eerie cover by BILL EVERETT!

Spotlight on Superman’s first editor WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, longtime Kryptoeditor MORT WEISINGER remembered by his daughter, an interview with Superman writer ALVIN SCHWARTZ, tributes to FRANK FRAZETTA and AL WILLIAMSON, art by JOE SHUSTER, WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, and NEAL ADAMS, plus MR. MONSTER, FCA, and a new cover by JERRY ORDWAY!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL (AE #100)

ALTER EGO #99

GEORGE TUSKA showcase issue on his career at Lev Gleason, Marvel, and in comics strips through the early 1970s—CRIME DOES NOT PAY, BUCK ROGERS, IRON MAN, AVENGERS, HERO FOR HIRE, & more! Plus interviews with Golden Age artist BILL BOSSERT and fan-artist RUDY FRANKE, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and more! (84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL is a celebration of 100 issues, and 50 years, of ALTER EGO, Roy Thomas’ legendary super-hero fanzine. It’s a double-size triple-threat BOOK, with twice as many pages as the regular magazine, plus special features just for this anniversary edition! Behind a RICH BUCKLER/JERRY ORDWAY JSA cover, ALTER EGO celebrates its 100th issue and the 50th anniversary of A/E (Vol. 1) #1 in 1961—as ROY THOMAS is interviewed by JIM AMASH about the 1980s at DC! Learn secrets behind ALL-STAR SQUADRON—INFINITY, INC.—ARAK, SON OF THUNDER—CAPTAIN CARROT—JONNI THUNDER, a.k.a. THUNDERBOLT— YOUNG ALL-STARS—SHAZAM!—RING OF THE NIBELUNG—and more! With rare art and artifacts by GEORGE PÉREZ, TODD McFARLANE, RICH BUCKLER, JERRY ORDWAY, MIKE MACHLAN, GIL KANE, GENE COLAN, DICK GIORDANO, ALFREDO ALCALA, TONY DEZUNIGA, ERNIE COLÓN, STAN GOLDBERG, SCOTT SHAW!, ROSS ANDRU, and many more! Plus special anniversary editions of Alter Ego staples MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA (FCA)—and ALEX WRIGHT’s amazing color collection of 1940s DC pinup babes! Edited by ROY THOMAS. (NOTE: This book takes the place of ALTER EGO #100, and counts as TWO issues toward your subscription.) (160-page trade paperback with COLOR) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • ISBN: 9781605490311 Diamond Order Code: JAN111351

ALTER EGO #101

Fox Comics of the 1940s with art by FINE, BAKER, SIMON, KIRBY, TUSKA, FLETCHER HANKS, ALEX BLUM, and others! “Superman vs. Wonder Man” starring EISNER, IGER, SIEGEL, LIEBERSON, MAYER, DONENFELD, and VICTOR FOX! Plus, Part I of an interview with JACK MENDELSOHN, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by Marvel artist DAVE WILLIAMS!

NEW!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #102

ALTER EGO #103

ALTER EGO #104

ALTER EGO: THE CBA COLLECTION

Spotlight on Green Lantern creators MART NODELL and BILL FINGER in the 1940s, and JOHN BROOME, GIL KANE, and JULIUS SCHWARTZ in 1959! Rare GL artwork by INFANTINO, REINMAN, HASEN, NEAL ADAMS, and others! Plus JACK MENDELSOHN Part II, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by GIL KANE & TERRY AUSTIN, and MART NODELL!

The early career of comics writer STEVE ENGLEHART: Defenders, Captain America, Master of Kung Fu, The Beast, Mantis, and more, with rare art and artifacts by SAL BUSCEMA, STARLIN, SUTTON, HECK, BROWN, and others. Plus, JIM AMASH interviews early artist GEORGE MANDEL (Captain Midnight, The Woman in Red, Blue Bolt, Black Marvel, etc.), FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and more!

Celebrates the 50th anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 and the birth of Marvel Comics! New, never-before-published STAN LEE interview, art and artifacts by KIRBY, DITKO, SINNOTT, AYERS, THOMAS, and secrets behind the Marvel Mythos! Also: JIM AMASH interviews 1940s Timely editor AL SULMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and a new cover by FRENZ and SINNOTT!

Compiles the ALTER EGO flip-sides from COMIC BOOK ARTIST #1-5, plus 30 NEW PAGES of features & art! All-new rare and previously-unpublished art by JACK KIRBY, GIL KANE, JOE KUBERT, WALLY WOOD, FRANK ROBBINS, NEAL ADAMS, & others, ROY THOMAS on X-MEN, AVENGERS/ KREE-SKRULL WAR, INVADERS, and more! Cover by JOE KUBERT!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(160-page trade paperback) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $4.95

HUMOR MAGAZINES (BUNDLE ALL THREE FOR JUST $14.95)

ALTER EGO:

BEST OF THE LEGENDARY COMICS FANZINE

Collects the original 11 issues of JERRY BAILS and ROY THOMAS’ ALTER EGO fanzine (from 1961-78), with contributions from JACK KIRBY, STEVE DITKO, WALLY WOOD, JOHN BUSCEMA, MARIE SEVERIN, BILL EVERETT, RUSS MANNING, CURT SWAN, and others—and illustrated interviews with GIL KANE, BILL EVERETT, & JOE KUBERT! Plus major articles on the JUSTICE SOCIETY, the MARVEL FAMILY, the MLJ HEROES, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS and BILL SCHELLY with an introduction by JULIE SCHWARTZ. (192-page trade paperback) $21.95 ISBN: 9781893905887 Diamond Order Code: DEC073946

COMIC BOOK NERD

PETE VON SHOLLY’s side-splitting parody of the fan press, including our own mags! Experience the magic(?) of such publications as WHIZZER, the COMICS URINAL, ULTRA EGO, COMICS BUYER’S GUISE, BAGGED ISSUE!, SCRAWL!, COMIC BOOK ARTISTE, and more, as we unabashedly poke fun at ourselves, our competitors, and you, our loyal readers! It’s a first issue, collector’s item, double-bag, slab-worthy, speculator’s special sure to rub even the thickest-skinned fanboy the wrong way! (64-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95

CRAZY HIP GROOVY GO-GO WAY OUT MONSTERS #29 & #32

PETE VON SHOLLY’s spoofs of monster mags will have you laughing your pants off— right after you soil them from sheer terror! This RETRO MONSTER MOVIE MAGAZINE is a laugh riot lampoon of those GREAT (and absolutely abominable) mags of the 1950s and ‘60s, replete with fake letters-to-the-editor, phony ads for worthless, wacky stuff, stills from imaginary films as bad as any that were really made, interviews with their “creators,” and much more! Relive your misspent youth (and misspent allowance) as you dig the hilarious photos, ads, and articles skewering OUR FAVORITE THINGS of the past! Get our first issue (#29!), the sequel (#32!), or both!

DIEDGITIIOTANSL E

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(48-page magazines) $5.95 EACH • (Digital Editions) $1.95 EACH

These sold-out books are now available again in DIGITAL EDITIONS:

NEW!

MR. MONSTER, VOL. 0

TRUE BRIT

DICK GIORDANO: CHANGING COMICS, ONE DAY AT A TIME

Collects hard-to-find Mr. Monster stories from A-1, CRACK-A-BOOM! and DARK HORSE PRESENTS (many in COLOR for the first time) plus over 30 pages of ALLNEW MR. MONSTER art and stories! Can your sanity survive our Lee/Kirby monster spoof by MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MARK MARTIN, or the long-lost 1933 Mr. Monster newspaper strip? Or the terrifying TRENCHER/MR. MONSTER slug-fest, drawn by KEITH GIFFEN and MICHAEL T. GILBERT?! Read at your own risk!

GEORGE KHOURY’s definitive book on the rich history of British Comics Artists, their influence on the US, and how they have revolutionized the way comics are seen and perceived! It features breathtaking art, intimate photographs, and in-depth interviews with BRIAN BOLLAND, ALAN DAVIS, DAVE GIBBONS, KEVIN O’NEILL, DAVID LLOYD, DAVE McKEAN, BRYAN HITCH, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH and other fine gents! Sporting a new JUDGE DREDD cover by BRIAN BOLLAND!

MICHAEL EURY’s biography of comics’ most prominent and affable personality! It covers his career as illustrator, inker, and editor—peppered with DICK’S PERSONAL REFLECTIONS—and is illustrated with RARE AND UNSEEN comics, merchandising, and advertising art! Plus: an extensive index of his published work, comments and tributes by NEAL ADAMS, DENNIS O’NEIL, TERRY AUSTIN, PAUL LEVITZ, MARV WOLFMAN, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, JIM APARO and others, a Foreword by NEAL ADAMS, and an Afterword by PAUL LEVITZ!

(136-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $4.95

(204-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95

(176-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $5.95

SECRETS IN THE SHADOWS: GENE COLAN

TOM FIELD’s amazing COLAN retrospective, with rare drawings, photos, and art from his 60-year career, and a comprehensive overview of Gene’s glory days at Marvel Comics! MARV WOLFMAN, DON McGREGOR and other writers share script samples and anecdotes of their Colan collaborations, while TOM PALMER, STEVE LEIALOHA and others show how they approached inking Colan’s famously nuanced penciled pages! Plus: a NEW PORTFOLIO of never-seen collaborations between Gene and masters such as BYRNE, KALUTA and PÉREZ, and all-new artwork created just for this book! (192-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95

ART OF GEORGE TUSKA

A comprehensive look at GEORGE TUSKA’S personal and professional life, including early work at the Eisner-Iger shop, producing controversial crime comics of the 1950s, and his tenure with Marvel and DC Comics, as well as independent publishers. Includes extensive coverage of his work on IRON MAN, X-MEN, HULK, JUSTICE LEAGUE, TEEN TITANS, BATMAN, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS, and others, a gallery of commission art and a thorough index of his work, original art, photos, sketches, unpublished art, interviews and anecdotes from his peers and fans, plus the very personal and reflective words of George himself! Written by DEWEY CASSELL. (128-page Digital Edition) $4.95

OTHER BOOKS FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING

PENCILER, PUBLISHER, PROVOCATEUR

COMICS’ FAST & FURIOUS ARTIST

THE ART OF GLAMOUR

MATT BAKER

EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE

Shines a light on the life and career of the artistic and publishing visionary of DC Comics!

Explores the life and career of one of Marvel Comics’ most recognizable and dependable artists!

Biography of the talented master of 1940s “Good Girl” art, complete with color story reprints!

Definitive biography of the Watchmen writer, in a new, expanded edition!

(224-page trade paperback) $26.95

(176-page trade paperback with COLOR) $26.95

(192-page hardcover with COLOR) $39.95

(240-page trade paperback) $29.95

QUALITY COMPANION

BATCAVE COMPANION

ALL- STAR COMPANION

AGE OF TV HEROES

The first dedicated book about the Golden Age publisher that spawned the modern-day “Freedom Fighters”, Plastic Man, and the Blackhawks!

Unlocks the secrets of Batman’s Silver and Bronze Ages, following the Dark Knight’s progression from 1960s camp to 1970s creature of the night!

Roy Thomas has four volumes documenting the history of ALL-STAR COMICS, the JUSTICE SOCIETY, INFINITY, INC., and more!

(256-page trade paperback with COLOR) $31.95

(240-page trade paperback) $26.95

(224-page trade paperbacks) $24.95

Examining the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes, featuring the in-depth stories of the shows’ actors and behind-the-scenes players!

CARMINE INFANTINO

SAL BUSCEMA

(192-page full-color hardcover) $39.95

MARVEL COMICS

An issue-by-issue field guide to the pop culture phenomenon of LEE, KIRBY, DITKO, and others, from the company’s fumbling beginnings to the full maturity of its wild, colorful, offbeat grandiosity!

IN THE 1960s

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

MODERN MASTERS

HOW TO CREATE COMICS

Covers how Stan Lee went from writer to publisher, Jack Kirby left (and returned), Roy Thomas rose as editor, and a new wave of writers and artists came in!

20+ volumes with in-depth interviews, plus extensive galleries of rare and unseen art from the artist’s files!

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

Shows step-by-step how to develop a new comic, from script and art, to printing and distribution!

(128-page trade paperbacks) $14.95 each

(108-page trade paperback) $15.95

IN THE 1970s

A BOOK SERIES DEVOTED TO THE BEST OF TODAY’S ARTISTS

FROM SCRIPT TO PRINT

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TwoMorrows—A New Day For Comics Fandom! TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com