Alter Ego #188

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ROY THOMAS' 25TH ANNIVERSARY COMICS FANZINE

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“STAN LEE’s

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By Sean Howe

No. 188

JULY 2024

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All characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

A QUARTER-CENTURY OF MARVEL MADNESS AT TWOMORROWS, FEATURING DAVID ARMSTRONG’S AWESOME MINI-INTERVIEWS WITH: JOHN BUSCEMA • MARIE SEVERIN • JIM MOONEY & GEORGE TUSKA!

Satiate Your Sinister Side!

“Greetings, creep culturists! For my debut

All characters and properties TM & © their respective owners.

issue, I, the CRYPTOLOGIST (with the help of FROM THE TOMB editor PETER NORMANTON), have exhumed the worst Horror Comics excesses of the 1950s, Killer “B” movies to die for, and the creepiest, kookiest toys that crossed your boney little fingers as a child! But wait... do you dare enter the House of Usher, or choose sides in the skirmish between the Addams Family and The Munsters?! Can you stand to gaze at Warren magazine frontispieces by this issue’s cover artist BERNIE WRIGHTSON, or spend some Hammer Time with that studio’s most frightening films? And if Atlas pre-Code covers or terrifying science-fiction are more than you can take, stay away! All this, and more, is lurching toward you in TwoMorrows Publishing’s latest, and most decrepit, magazine—just for retro horror fans, and featuring my henchmen WILL MURRAY, MARK VOGER, BARRY FORSHAW, TIM LEESE, PETE VON SHOLLY, and STEVE and MICHAEL KRONENBERG!” (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99

#1 ships October 2024!

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CRYPTOLOGY #2

CRYPTOLOGY #3

CRYPTOLOGY #4

The Cryptologist and his ghastly little band have cooked up more grisly morsels, including: ROGER HILL’s conversation with our diabolical cover artist DON HECK, severed hand films, pre-Code comic book terrors, the otherworldly horrors of Hammer’s Quatermass, another Killer “B” movie classic, plus spooky old radio shows, and the horror-inspired covers of the Shadow’s own comic book. Start the ghoul-year with retro-horror done right by FORSHAW, the KRONENBERGS, LEESE, RICHARD HAND, VON SHOLLY, and editor PETER NORMANTON.

This third wretched issue inflicts the dread of MARS ATTACKS upon you—the banned cards, the model kits, the despicable comics, and a few words from the film’s deranged storyboard artist PETE VON SHOLLY! The chilling poster art of REYNOLD BROWN gets brought up from the Cryptologist’s vault, along with a host of terrifying puppets from film, and more comic books they’d prefer you forget! Plus, more Hammer Time, JUSTIN MARRIOT on obscure ’70s fear-filled paperbacks, another Killer “B” film, and more to satiate your sinister side!

Our fourth putrid tome treats you to ALEX ROSS’ gory lowdown on his Universal Monsters paintings! Hammer Time brings you face-to-face with the “Brides of Dracula”, and the Cryptologist resurrects 3-D horror movies and comics of the 1950s! Learn the origins of slasher films, and chill to the pre-Code artwork of Atlas’ BILL EVERETT and ACG’s 3-D maestro HARRY LAZARUS. Plus, another Killer “B” movie and more awaits retro horror fans, by NORMANTON, the KRONENBERGS, LEESE, VOGER, and VON SHOLLY!

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Vol. 3, No. 188/July 2024 Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editor Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck J.T. Go (Associate Editor) Mark Lewis (Cover Coordinator)

Comic Crypt Editor

Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll

Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich, Bill Schelly

Proofreader

William J. Dowlding

Cover Artists

Gil Kane & John Romita

Cover Colorist Unknown

With Special Thanks to: Heidi Amash Henry Andrews David Armstrong Bob Bailey Jean Bails Rod Beck John Benson Ricky Terry Brisaque Mike Bromberg Mike Burkey Nick Caputo Dewey Cassell John Cimino Shaun Clancy Comic Book Plus (website) Comic Vine (website) Pierre Comtois Chet Cox Daniel James Cox Jennifer DeRoss Leonardo de Sá Craig Delich Al Dellinges Diversions of the Groovy Kind Michael Dunne Mark Evanier Shane Foley Julia Fox Terri Fox Joe Frank Stephan A. Friedt Jeff Gelb Janet Gilbert Grand Comics Database (website) Alex Grand Jeff Hamett Dan Hagen Rob Hansen Ben Herman Sean Howe Richard Howell R.A. Jones John Joshua

Jim Kealy Lambiek Comiclopedia (website) Tom Lammers Tristan Lapoussiere Dominic Leonard Jean-Marc Lofficier Art Lortie Jim Ludwig Eve Machlan Magnus Doug Martin Gustavo Medina Mike Mikulovsky Dusty Miller Mark Muller Jerry Ordway Palantine News Network (website) Barry Pearl Pinterest (website) pulpartists.com (website) Todd Reis James Rosen Allen Ross Dan St. John Ignacio Fernández Sarasola Randy Sargent Sasquatch Media David Saunders Cory Sedlmeier Richard Seeto Mitchell Senft Craig Shutt Walter Simonson Derrick Smith Emilio Soltero J. David Spurlock Dann Thomas Robert Tuska Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Delmo Walters, Jr. Mark Witz

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Tim Sale, Dan Green, & Mike Machlan

Contents Writer/Editorial: Taking Marvel’s Side . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 “[The Comic Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day” . . 3 John Buscema interview, the first of nine this issue conducted by David Armstrong.

“Why Is She Doing Paste-Ups In Production?” . . . . . . . . . . 19 That’s the question Marvel publisher Goodman asked re interviewee Marie Severin.

“I Really Enjoyed Working As A Cartoonist” . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 George Tuska on Marvel, DC, Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, etc.

“Why?” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 Jim Mooney discusses his high-profile work at Marvel & DC.

Stan Lee’s Dinner With Alain Resnais . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 When The Fantastic Four met Hiroshima Mon Amour—annotated by Sean Howe.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! “We All Have To Start Somewhere!” . 59 Michael T. Gilbert presents Part 2—the early work of Gil Kane.

Tributes To Tim Sale, Dan Green, & Mike Machlan . . . . . . . 65 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #247 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 Ignacio Fernández Sarasola on the influence of Captain Marvel on Franco Spain.

On Our Cover: It was publisher John Morrow who suggested we adapt the cover of The Avengers #141 (Nov. 1975) to front the “Marvel side” of this issue’s flip double-header… but he may have had A/E’s editor in mind, since Roy Thomas not only co-created the Silver Age Vision with John Buscema but actually designed the precise costumes of Squadron Sinister/Supreme members Hyperion, Dr. Spectrum, and the [other-Earth] Whizzer… and scripted the debut of Golden Archer and Lady Lark as well. Still, it was Gil Kane who penciled this cover, and John Romita who inked it, doubtless making a few of his own trademark alterations along the way. The Squadron was Roy T’s homage to DC’s “Earth-Two.” [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Above: Perhaps the last of several collaborations between two of this side’s intrepid interviewees—John Buscema as penciler and George Tuska as inker—took place in The Avengers #54 (July 1968), in a tale scripted by Roy Thomas. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Alter EgoTM issue 188, July 2024 (ISSN 1932-6890) is published bi-monthly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Periodicals postage paid at Raleigh, NC. POSTMASTER: Send address changes to Alter Ego, c/o TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614.

Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Six-issue subscriptions: $73 US, $111 Elsewhere, $29 Digital Only. All characters are © their respective companies. All material ©their creators unless otherwise noted.

All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

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Article Title writer/editorial

Taking Marvel’s Side

ou could’ve knocked me over with a feather-duster when publisher John Morrow pointed out to me, roughly a year ago, that issue #188 would mark Alter Ego’s 25th anniversary as a stand-alone title in the TwoMorrows family of magazines.

And, in fact, he was only talking about Volume 3 of the fanzine first launched by Jerry Bails with my help in March 1961. If we count A/E, Volume 2, which was the truncated flip side of Jon B. Cooke’s Comic Book Artist #1-5, our debut actually occurred in 1998, a full year earlier. But nobody celebrates 26th anniversaries, right?

So A/E #188 it would be!

I still remember the day publisher John M. and CBA editor Jon B. consulted with (read: ganged up on) me and strongly, er, suggested that Alter Ego leave its perch as CBA’s flip side and become a separate quarterly mag all its own. Sounded like fun— but how long would I be able to scrape up enough material to fill 80 pages every three months?

But, what the hell. I was about to take a job teaching (yechh!) high school English again after 3½ decades, so I figured I could use a distraction—just as A/E, Vol. 1, had been during my teaching circa the JFK/LBJ era. Besides, though I was still doing a bit of pro-comics writing, I figured I could always use a few extra bucks to pay off the mortgage on our “40-acres-and-a-pool” spread in the middle of South Carolina.

So here we are at 188 issues, each of which has run at least 80 pages plus covers (and we were filling 100 pages per issue for a little while there), and still going strong. Oh, and we paid off the

mortgage years ago. So when John Morrow suggested a doublesized celebratory 25th-anniversary edition, I was all for it—the more so since, by coincidence, he and I had recently been handed a treasure trove of short-to-medium-length interviews conducted by our longtime associate Dave Armstrong at various San Diego Comic-Cons between 1997 and 2001. And nine of those—plus special features on two mentors of mine, Stan Lee and Gardner Fox—plus the regular “re:,” FCA, and “Comic Crypt” features, and tributes to a few of our colleagues who have passed on, would definitely fill a 160-page special to overflowing!

In particular, I loved John’s suggestion to use, as this issue’s covers, a matched pair of DC and Marvel artworks that echo my interest in the super-heroes of parallel worlds: Earth-One vs.

Earth-Two on the DC side… while, on this side’s Marvel cover, The Avengers face the Squadron Sinister, the group I conceived in 1969 as Marvel’s answer to “Earth-Two,” even to the point of personally designing the costumes and colors of Hyperion, Dr. Spectrum, and the second Whizzer. On this side, we proudly present four interviews with artists associated largely (though not solely) with Marvel—plus an intriguing look “inside Stan Lee”—plus Michael T. Gilbert on the early Gil Kane. And, when you flip this mag over, you’ll encounter five Armstrong interviews related to mostly-DC artisans, plus a special photo-feature on the family and descendants of the late great Gardner Fox. Yes, TwoMorrows and I are definitely celebrating this time around. But you know what? So are you!

Bestest,

COMING IN AUGUST

189

#

A TITANIC TRIBUTE TO

JOHN ROMITA!

ers, Inc. Art TM & © Marvel Charact

• A wondrous & well-deserved salute to the memory of JOHN ROMITA—the artist who, among many other things, helped turn Amazing Spider-Man into Marvel’s top-selling comic!

• Highlights from a pulsatin’ podcast recorded only days after John’s regretful passing—featuring JOHN ROMITA JR., JIM STARLIN, STEVE ENGLEHART, BRIAN PULIDO, ROY THOMAS, JAIME JAMESON, JOHN CIMINO, STEVE HOUSTON, & NILE SCALA! • Plus—DAVID ARMSTRONG’s 2001 San Diego Comic-Con interview with The Jazzy One—and ROMITA’s “top ten” greatest hits, by JOHN CIMINO! • Not to mention—FCA with C.C. BECK at DC, the early artwork of MURPHY ANDERSON, presented by MICHAEL T. GILBERT—& MORE!!

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“[The Comic Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day” A 2001 Interview with BIG JOHN BUSCEMA Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: John Buscema, as most readers of this magazine (or of comicbooks over the past half-century) already know, was one of the greatest draftsmen in the history of the field, and one of Marvel Comics’ most prolific and important artists in the last third of the 20th century. This interview with him, conducted

by Dave Armstrong at the San Diego Comic-Con in summer of 2001, was one of the last that John gave, since he passed away of a returning cancer on January 10, 2002. At the time of this talk, however, the cancer seemed to be in remission and John was enjoying his retirement after so many decades in the comics industry.

John Buscema A 2000 photo, sandwiched between the first splash page he ever drew for Conan the Barbarian (#27, June 1973) and the final splash he drew for any color comic starring the Cimmerian: Conan: Death Covered in Gold #3 (Dec. 1999), the finale of a three-issue mini-series that pretty much closed out Marvel’s Conan license, the first time around. Buscema’s artwork for CTB #25 & 26 was published before #27, of course; but the latter issue was entirely drawn before the other two. Buscema was inked by Ernie Chan (as Ernie Chua) in #27, and inked his own pencils in the ’99 series. Scripts by Roy Thomas.

Thanks to Barry Pearl for the #27 scan. [TM & © Heroic Signatures, LLC.]

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

DAVID ARMSTRONG: When did you start drawing?

JOHN BUSCEMA: As soon as I was able to hold a pencil in my hand.

DA: Did your parents encourage you?

BUSCEMA: My mother did. My father thought I was wasting my time… [that] I should have learned a trade. Not a profession… a trade.

DA: What did he want you to do?

BUSCEMA: Anything to earn a buck.

DA: Well, at least you learned that lesson….

BUSCEMA: I never listened to him. I listened to my mother.

DA: What kind of training did you have?

BUSCEMA: I went to the High School of Music and Art, where they developed your appreciation of art. They took you to museums and they gave you a canvas or a watercolor paper and you painted. They put up a still-life in front of you and you copied it…. While I was going to high school, I went to Pratt at night for a couple of hours a week, and I had design and figure drawing.

The Brooklyn Museum had a Saturday morning class for a couple of hours each week, and I learned some figure drawing there, and that was about the extent [of it]. Most of my training was right on the job.

the Tarzans, the Flash Gordons, and all that. I love that stuff. And illustrators. The illustrators from The Saturday Evening Post and Collier’s, which don’t exist anymore. Do they exist? I don’t know….

DA: You started in the late ’40s.

BUSCEMA: What, comics? ’48.

DA: ’48. Could you tell at that point that the illustration business was not doing well?

BUSCEMA: Oh, that was the height of illustration at that time. ’48.

Wow. That’s when I started clipping the magazines. I clipped them for years. I have a collection at home. Tremendous collection.

DA: Did you do various genres for Timely when you started?

BUSCEMA: Yeah, I did. Westerns, romance, crime. Crime was very popular. Crime Does Not Pay was the most popular comic. At that period we did everything. Super-heroes weren’t that popular. They were dying out at that time….

DA: Were there any guys in your class that ended up in the same business as you?

BUSCEMA: I had a friend who was in comics, and he would give me addresses to apply for work, and I’d bring samples and no one would accept them. [Then] I saw an ad one day in The New York Times. They were looking for a comicbook artist, and it was Timely.

And I went up there, showed him my samples. Stan was impressed, apparently, and gave me a staff job.

DA: And how did you like being on staff?

BUSCEMA: I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. We were kids. I was a kid. Gene Colan was a kid. Most of the guys were much older than I was, and it was a nice experience. I worked on staff for about a year and a half, and then they disbanded. There was no staff work anymore. It was just freelance.

DA: Did you have any influences from any of the people that you worked with?

BUSCEMA: No, but I was influenced by the syndicated strips: the Prince Valiants,

Didn’t Women Commit Any Crimes In 1950?

(Above:) An early John Buscema cover, for Timely’s Man Comics #2 (March 1950) already showed his command of the human body in motion.

Because of the short-lived company symbol on this one, it might be said to be possibly Big John’s very first Marvel cover.

(Left:) One of the artist’s earliest crime splashes, from Man Comics #4 (Oct. ’50). Writer unknown. (Just in case you have any doubts that this is JB’s work, he snuck his initials onto the truck driving away, as pointed out

by Dr. Michael J. Vassallo. who sent us both these scans.

[TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

DA: And how did you like working on romance books?

BUSCEMA: I didn’t mind. I couldn’t draw girls in those days. It took me a while to learn…. Nobody taught me. I struggled. And how did I learn how to draw a girl’s head? I started off with a baby’s head and just enlarged certain areas, and I got a pretty girl…. They had high foreheads and pug noses, you know… small chins. Before that, [my women] looked like men—skinny men. I would draw a baby and age it, and it looked like a pretty girl….

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DA: Did any of the stuff you did force you to expand your own personal repertoire in terms of your drawing, like the romance books had?.... Is there anything else that made you draw super-heroes? You get a chance to draw basic figures. The Westerns give you a chance to draw animals and that kind of stuff.

BUSCEMA: I socialized, yeah. I had a group of friends from the neighborhood I grew up with… 6 or 7 guys. A couple of us were in the art field—advertising, comics—and I socialized with a couple of guys from Marvel… Danny DeCarlo and a couple of other guys.

Rudy Lapick. We would go out on the weekends. They had [a softball team], but I never played. They never invited me.

BUSCEMA: Well, in fact, I still draw all the time. I draw seven days a week. And whenever I have a day, I’m working on whatever I’m doing, a strip or book or whatever. At the end of the day, I will continue drawing, doing what I want. Now, one of the things that I’m well known for is the back of the pages that I’ve worked on, and I’ve filled up many pages that way. And that’s where I learned a lot, because I had no restrictions. I was doing what I wanted to do, and then I would apply it to the stories, the drawings, the positions, the figures, whatever they were doing…. I’m usually up around 5:30 in the morning. I have breakfast. First thing I do is start drawing. I’ll draw maybe for an hour and a half, two hours, maybe three hours, depending on how I feel. But it’s got to be every day. Every day.

I didn’t care to get involved with their social activities or whatever, especially once I moved to the Island [NOTE: Long Island]. It took me two hours to get into the city, and I’d kill a whole day. In fact, once I started working back in ’66 with Marvel again, I rarely went into the city. I would work at home, and maybe a half dozen times a year I would go into the city to see Stan, let them know that I was still alive.

BUSCEMA: Well, you have a determined size. It’s 10 by 15 [inches].

You know, you’re going to work that, depending on the scene. In other words, if I was doing a Conan shot and there was a battle scene, I knew automatically it would be a panoramic scene. So I’d go right across the page. If it’s an individual, for example—it’s

DA: Did you socialize with any guys outside Timely—the guys that you worked with that you got along with?

DA: When you do a comicbook page, how do you determine layout in terms of shape of size, and how the story?

The Female Of The Species (Left:) This Buscema “romance” splash page for Timely’s Love Adventures #7 (Oct. 1949) shows that he had a greater facility at drawing women in his early pro days than he seems to remember. Inks by Vince Alascia. Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Above:) This group of drawings from the back of a Buscema comics page in the ’70s or ’80s illustrates two things: (1) that he often did some of his best work there, because he could draw anything he wanted to; and (2) he learned to draw women even better as he went along. [© 2024 Estate of John Buscema.]

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

anybody that works in the field—and I’ve learned from the guys who are bad what not to do. [Kirby] was a genius. Absolutely. He revolutionized the way we do comics, in my book.

DA: When did you meet Kirby?

BUSCEMA: I met him, I think, once or twice up at Marvel. Our paths crossed. He worked at home. I worked at home. And I think I saw him once at the convention here in California…. He changed the entire field. I mean, he was Jack Kirby. We were all influenced

by Jack. I know I was, tremendously.

DA: And you think it was based on the fact that his knowledge of panel layout and storytelling, everything…?

BUSCEMA: Design, layouts, action of the figures, the expressions, everything about comics. He was a master. And again, I repeat over and over—he revolutionized, for me, anyway…. He was born for it…. I got to a point where I almost felt like strangling the guy, he was so damn good. I couldn’t do the things he did!

“Move ’Em In, Move ’Em Out, Rawhide!”

The original, never-published Buscema version of the cover of the first issue of a Rawhide Kid series that was launched in 1985. Thanks to Nick Caputo for related info. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

a very important person, maybe introducing the king—I would take up maybe a quarter of the page to introduce this guy sitting on a throne looking down at his subjects. For example, when I did Mephisto, I introduced him, and one of the panels—I think he took an entire page sitting on his throne, looking down at his minions….

DA: Now, did you learn basically on your own through experience how to do pacing for panels and how to do dramatic effects, or did you learn from other guys?

BUSCEMA: I learned from one guy specifically. I think I learned from everyone, but from one guy specifically. It was Jack Kirby.

When I first went back to Marvel, the first book they gave me was a disaster, but I didn’t realize it at the time because I had just come out of advertising and it’s a different ball game. And Stan pulled me aside and he said, “John, look at these books.” And he gave me a stack of Jack Kirby books. And it was a revelation to me. And from that moment on, my work started to improve and I had a different outlook on how to present the layouts, the stories, the storytelling, and all that. And right up until today, I still have those books and I occasionally will glance at them if I find myself, you know, hitting a wall…. I’ve learned from other guys, too—

“Better To Reign In Hell…”

The full-page introduction of Mephisto on his brimstone throne in The Silver Surfer #3 (Dec. 1968). Inks by Joe Sinnott; script by Stan Lee. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

Forget Mad Men! Meet Mad Hulk!

John Buscema’s first real penciling for 1960s Marvel—the “Hulk” splash page, inked by John Tartaglione, seen above left, for Tales to Astonish #85 (Nov. 1966)—apparently retained a bit too much of the penciler’s recent advertising work for writer/editor Stan Lee’s liking—while, following a swift immersion in the recent work of Jack Kirby, JB delivered a definitely Marvelesque approach to a battle with a robotic “Hulk-Killer” the very next month in TTA #86. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

DA: I was going to say, there’s kind of a love/hate relationship with someone who’s good. You like to admire their work, but you’re kind of jealous of it.

BUSCEMA: Well, not jealous. I just couldn’t acquire that quality that he had. No matter what I did, it just didn’t come off. Jack had a unique style, and my style is more realistic. He had a style and I could never, never approach the quality that he had. It was ridiculous even to try. But yet it would kill me that I couldn’t get that feeling.

DA: And it did start in the animated industry…. from Max Fleischer.

Kirby used to do funny cartoons. As a matter of fact, he went to school with George Tuska.

A Quarterback’s Nightmare John Buscema drew—or at least penciled—a whole passel of Marvel heroes for the cover of a special edition of the NFL magazine Pro! which was handed out at the 1970 Super Bowl. Inker uncertain; might be Joe Sinnott. Thanks to Michael Mikulovsky. [Marvel heroes TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

BUSCEMA: Really? I didn’t know that. Tuska and I worked together up at Marvel…. I used to swipe his stuff when he was doing crime [comics] with Dan Barry. Two superstars for Crime Does Not Pay. I used to swipe both those guys.

DA: They were working for Charles Biro. Did you ever do any work for those guys?

BUSCEMA: No, I never did….

DA: So you’ve had a long term relationship with Stan [Lee]?

Troy I enjoyed. I didn’t enjoy doing modern stuff. I know I did one about submarines and Navy men. I didn’t enjoy that at all.

DA: Did they give you a lot of reference material for that?

BUSCEMA: Oh yeah. Movies. I have loads of the stuff at home. I was supposed to return it, by the way, which I never did…. I think I saw every one of those movies.

DA: How was Western as a publisher?

BUSCEMA: Yeah, but it’s been an on and off kind of thing. I started in ’48. I left in, I think, ’50…. And then I went back in ’66, and from ’66 up till ’96 when I retired. And that’s as long as we’ve been together, working together.

DA: Did you work for any other publishers when you’re in comicbooks?

BUSCEMA: Oh, sure. A lot of them…. I worked for Western Printing, and for a lot of small outfits that folded up.

DA: Didn’t you do movie adaptations?

BUSCEMA: Yeah, a lot of those for Western: Hercules, Helen of Troy, The Vikings, and a lot of other books.

DA: How did you like doing movie adaptations?

BUSCEMA: Some of them I enjoyed. Hercules I enjoyed. Helen of

Beware The Greeks Bearing Cameras!

(Left:) The 1956 Helen of Troy was one of a number of films visually adapted

by John B. for Dell/Western—in this case, from a script by the prolific Paul S. Newman. (Surprisingly, the indicia even gave a shout-out to screenwriters John Twist and Hugh Gray.) Here’s part of the climactic if much-abbreviated battle between Achilles and Hector—but we’re not gonna tell you who wins on the next page! Curiously, John’s work in this and other Dell/Western comics of this era displays a strange lack of blacks (shadows, etc.), which would give weight to his later inked work. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

(Above:) In 1977, Big John penciled the cover (though not the interior pages) of Marvel Classic Comics #26, which adapted Homer’s Iliad. Once again, Achilles and Hector face off—with the same result. Inks by Ernie Chan. Thanks to the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

BUSCEMA: Just like anybody.

DA: Ever do any work for DC? BUSCEMA: No. DA: On purpose?

BUSCEMA: Not on purpose. I was looking for work many years ago. And you couldn’t buy a job. And I went up to DC. They wouldn’t let me in the front door. And many years later, I was working for Marvel, and Carmine Infantino called me and he said he’d love to talk to me. And I said, “Where were you when I needed you? I don’t need you now, buddy. Bye!” DA: What did your father think about the fact that you were in the comicbook business? Did he hold out hope that you were going to change trades one day?

BUSCEMA: As soon as he realized that I had a future there, he was all for it.

DA: When you were in the advertising business, did the comicbook work that you had done prior to that help you in terms of creating storyboards for the commercial stuff?

BUSCEMA: Oh, absolutely. I’ll tell you a story. I was supposed to do, I think, five storyboards, and each storyboard was maybe 20 or 30 panels, whatever it was. And they would pay me five bucks a panel. And I rapped out the whole thing overnight and left it at the studio when I went in the morning. The owner of the studio was surprised they were finished. He said, “John, we can’t pay you five bucks [a panel]. We’ll give you two bucks.” He pulled me down because he didn’t want me to earn that kind of money!

DA: You were way too fast for him. Did you look at the animation field as a possibility, since you were doing storyboards and advertising?

9

to the point where you were ready to strangle [Stan]? Either way, the fun stuff or the bad stuff? Because, basically, he was your boss….

BUSCEMA: Yeah, Stan is a tough guy to work for. He’s got his mind set on a certain thing. And if it doesn’t— Should I tell you a story? You know, I shouldn’t say this, because if Stan sees it, he’s going to kill me…. The fourth issue [of The Silver Surfer], which I was proud of… I loved it. I got away from Kirby. I was doing John Buscema stuff…. Now, at that time, the books were losing readership for some reason, I don’t know. And Stan said, “John, I want you to come in. We’ve got to go over this book.” So I went over, I went into his office, and he tore it to pieces. It was, “…this page. And you do that.” I walked out of there… I was cross-eyed.

I had no idea what I was going to do, all right? And I went home and I was demoralized. I said to myself, The heck with it. I’m going right back to doing the Jack Kirby type of stuff, and that’s it.

Well, some years went by, maybe ten years. And Stan calls me up and he said, “Do you remember that book we did together, The Silver Surfer with Thor?” And I said, “How can I forget it?” [And Stan said:] “That was one of the greatest things we’ve ever done!”

That’s a true story.

DA: Yeah, Some people have good memories. They’re just short.

BUSCEMA: Oh, I could never forget that story. And I told him what he’d said about it. “No, John, it can’t be!” I said, “Stan, it can, and it did.” That’s what you hit. You know, you hit a guy in a bad mood. One day he might have had an argument with his wife or whatever the heck it is, you know, and it can destroy. I’ve seen guys literally destroyed. They couldn’t draw…. A guy named Don Heck.

I don’t know if you ever heard of him. A brilliant artist. We lived close by. He’d call me up: “John, you got to help me. I can’t do it.”

“What’s wrong?” “They don’t want this. They don’t want that. I don’t know what the hell to do anymore.” They literally can destroy [continued on p. 12]

BUSCEMA: You know, I never cared for animation. That was not my field.

DA: And when you went back to Marvel and Stan convinced you that the business was okay, how long did it take before you felt like what he said was actually true?

BUSCEMA: Well, I accepted it. You know, I had a family.

I had a house, a mortgage. I had expenses. So either I accepted it and went along with it… or otherwise, I didn’t. And I accepted it.

DA: Did your relationship with him change over time?

BUSCEMA: He had more confidence in me. In fact, when Jack Kirby created The Silver Surfer it became an instant hit with the public…. Stan saw that there was a possibility of having his own book. And he gave it to me.

And I was surprised that he didn’t give it to Jack, really.

And I think Jack was a bit upset about that, too. It was his baby. And Stan had a hell of a lot of confidence in me to give me that book. And we started off like a house on fire, and the whole building burned down by the end of the 17 issues. It just didn’t work…. And yet, in Europe…

I went to France and they had published it three times….

And they even made sort of an animated—I don’t know what the term is, but it wasn’t fully animated. They took clips from the books and you would see the mouths moving and they had dialogue, but it was all in French.

They loved it in Paris, in France. Yet in the States it didn’t click right away….

DA: Is there anything that kind of either bemused you or got you

Saloon Scenics A Western sketch from the back of one of Buscema’s Marvel pages.

[TM & © Estate of John Buscema.]

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

Well, Feather My Serpents!

(Above:) A Spanish-language cover for a reprint edition of Conan the Barbarian #64 (July 1976), by John Buscema & Mike Esposito. Thanks to Emilio Soltero.

[TM & © Heroic Signatures LLC.]

“Hither Came Conan…”

A splendid Buscema pencil-and-ink sketch of Conan on horseback, courtesy of the online Palantine News Network—and a pencil rough of the Cimmerian showing that all’s fair in love as well as war.

[Conan TM & © Heroic Signatures LLC.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

(Clockwise) Jungle Tales Of Buscema Although John professed not to enjoy doing the Tarzan comicbook for Marvel in the latter 1970s, because he felt Joe Kubert had handled it so masterfully at DC a couple of years earlier, he was at his best in Tarzan Annual #1 (1977), adapting a couple of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Jungle Tales of Tarzan. Inks

by Steve Gan; script by Roy Thomas. So when is this material going to be reprinted in the U.S.? Roy T. picked up a lush hardcover reprint of all his and Buscema’s Tarzan work in São Paolo, Brazil, in December 2023—but it’s in Portuguese! [TM & © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.] Online, we found this 1977 Buscema commission drawing of Conan vs. Tarzan.

The closest the Cimmerian has come to fighting the Ape-Man thus far is in the pages of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, where the former battled “Amra, Lord of the Lions.” [Conan TM & © Heroic Signatures, LLC; Tarzan TM & © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.] John also penciled numerous stories of Marvel’s own resident jungle lord, as per this splash from Ka-Zar #3 (Aug. 1976). Inks by Fred Kida, script by Gerry Conway. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

11

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

[continued from p. 9]

BUSCEMA: When I get older. After I retire.

a guy. Now, this guy was one of the best, too. It was a personality thing. Clash with the editor. And Don was very moved by it.

DA: Have you ever thought about just picking up the brush and doing it?

DA: Did you ever have any problems with any of the editors you worked with?

BUSCEMA: I usually intimidate them physically. I don’t take crap from anybody. There’s a point where you push the button, and then I don’t want to know anything.

When you are making money for a publisher, the world is yours. You can say anything you want. You can do anything you want. You want your shoes shined? They’ll shine your shoes. But if your books aren’t selling, you’ve got a problem. Fortunately, in my situation, I’ve always drawn books that were winners and I could demand things that other guys couldn’t. I was very fortunate in that respect.

BUSCEMA: You want to know something? It’s not that easy. It’s not that easy to start doing something that you’re not familiar with.

You know, it’s been many years since the last paperback cover that I did… more than thirty years… before I went back to Marvel. So

DA: You’ve invested, what, 50 years of experience? The more you do something, the better you get at it, naturally.

BUSCEMA: Well, it depends on who’s doing it. [laughter] DA: Do you feel confident in your abilities now?

BUSCEMA: Yeah. Today, I think I have enough experience to go in almost any direction that they ask me to go. Romance, crime, Westerns. I love doing Westerns, period things. I love all that kind of stuff.

DA: Do you always refer back to reference?

BUSCEMA: Well, if it’s important, I would. For example, I hate drawing cars. I can’t draw a car to save my life.

So I need reference. Airplanes, trains, stuff like that.

Mechanical things. I have no concept. I hate drawing them. But if I have to, I will. I have a scrap file with that stuff. Motorcycles.

DA: Do your kids like the fact that you were a freelancer working at home and they got a chance to see you all the time?

BUSCEMA: They couldn’t care less.

DA: And how about you? Did you like being around the house to be able to see them?

BUSCEMA: Yes, I enjoyed it. I saw my children grow up. When I was in advertising, I never saw them. It was a miserable life, because it took me almost six hours a day round-trip to go into the city and work. And many times we had campaigns that would take the weekends away…. I’d never see my family. And that’s one of the reasons why I went back to comics, because I was working at home, saw my family, and it worked out well.

DA: Of your entire career, what do you take out of it in terms of your interest in the business one way or the other?

BUSCEMA: It means nothing to me. You know, it was a means of earning a living. I’ve done maybe half a dozen different things that I’m proud of, like one Conan graphic novel, which I think is one of the best things I’ve ever done, and a couple of others. Conan things. I’ve never been into super-heroes. I’ve never been comic- oriented.

I dropped comics, I think, when I was about 13 or 14…. I became interested in painting and illustration….

DA: So when are you going to paint?

Vanquished In Valhalla Thor vs. The Silver Surfer, in the 4th issue of the latter’s extra-length mag (dated Feb. 1969), as penciled by John Buscema, inked by his brother Sal, and written by Stan Lee. As one who was in the Marvel offices the day Big John brought in the pulsating pencils for that story, A/E’s editor can attest that everything JB says about it in his interview is true—and then some!

“As I recognized even at the time, it was definitely not Stan’s finest hour,” sighs Rascally Roy, “but what none of us could realize that day was that his failure to appreciate the singular power and grace of John’s own emerging style in that issue led to John’s retreating from it to become, as much as possible, a ‘Kirby clone.’ It was a sad day for all concerned. Except that, fortunately, deadline demands kept Stan from having John redraw much of the story, so that it appeared very much as he had penciled it, despite Stan’s ill-considered disapproval.”

Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

13

me at the time I had retired… “What do you intend to do?” I said, “I’m going to be painting…. I’ve got plenty of time. I have a contract with my lawyer. I’m going to live to 110.” And then [the translator] tells the audience that I have a contract; I’m going to live ten more years instead of [to] 110…. Sergio Aragonés told my wife what he said, because Sergio understands Spanish. Every time I see Sergio, he tells me…

“Another year has gone by.”

DA: Did you think that it was a problem to be tied to one book instead of doing several different features for that reason?

BUSCEMA: Well, I remember one time they gave me Spider-Man. I think I did 6 or 7 issues and I hated every bit. I hated the character, I hated all the sub-characters, and I refused to do it anymore. But most books they gave me, The Avengers, whatever I took, whatever they gave me, it made no difference except the Conan books, which I was on for many, many years. I loved it. I enjoyed it. I never got tired of it.

DA: Did you read the Conan books when you were a kid?

BUSCEMA: No, not as a kid. Roy Thomas introduced it [into Marvel], and he gave me all the paperbacks, and they were great. I loved every one of them. I could visualize the stories.

DA: I would expect that you would like the European stuff more than you like the American stuff, because it’s very story-oriented.

BUSCEMA: Well, they’re not into super-heroes.

DA: They’re not into continued stories, either. They like to have a complete book that has a story.

BUSCEMA: They have pretty thick books, too, you know… 100-page books. And they have some fabulous talent in Europe. Unbelievable. I love going over there. I go every year.

Cutting A Rogue Roy T. also completely concurs with John B. that the 1991 Conan the Rogue, the “Conan graphic novel” to which the artist alludes on the previous page, was one of the best things he ever did.

John plotted, illustrated, colored, and even lettered it—though Roy was flattered to be asked by him, at the last minute, to come in and supply the actual dialogue. Alas, Rogue was barely marketed by the Marvel powers-that-were, with the result that it had a low print run (and thus a low potential sale) and today is one of the rarest of Buscema art and memorabilia. But it’s well worth searching for! (If you get desperate, you might try to get hold of a copy of the Spanishlanguage version, titled Conan el Picaro.) It’s to be hoped that this graphic novel will be reprinted, and soon, by the new license-holders. [TM & © Heroic Signatures, LLC.]

that’s been a long time since I’ve painted…. You’ve got to paint every day, which was what I was doing in those days.

DA: Do you have subjects in mind?

BUSCEMA: Got to be figure work. I love doing figures. It can’t be anything mechanical, you know, airplanes or anything. I have no desire to do that. I want life, animals. I love doing animals.

Anything that’s animate.

DA: That’ll be interesting to see, if you ever get to it.

BUSCEMA: Yeah, we’ll see. I’m still a young kid. I’ll tell you a story about that…. I was in Spain and I was being interviewed on a stage, and I had a guy who was translating, and they were asking

DA: Is it worth staying in the comicbook business to do that?

BUSCEMA: I do comics to earn a living…. It’s easy, you know? Knock off a book, and I tell my wife, “What do you say we take off?” I’ve been invited to a convention in Spain in October. So have Gene Colan, a couple of other guys. Joe Kubert. I love going there.

That’s a beautiful, beautiful country.

DA: Food’s good, too.

BUSCEMA: Yes, except Ireland. They like to drink. They don’t like to eat. I can’t get a decent meal in Ireland. When I was in Dublin, I had to go to McDonald’s. In London, though, I hit some restaurants.

Fabulous. Their roast beef… you can’t beat it….

[After a brief exchange about various types of restaurants in the UK:] DA: And what do you think about the conventions?

BUSCEMA: Oh, jeez, I’m too old for that stuff.

DA: Anything you like about the business? [continued on p. 17]

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

Riding The Hyborian Range (Above:) Buscema sure did love drawing Conan on horseback! This pencil sketch courtesy of Mike Mikulovsky. [Conan TM & © Heroic Signatures LLC.]

The Ubiquitous Buscema (Left:) John Buscema’s work on Amazing Spider-Man consisted primarily of laying out the stories, to be finished by Jim Mooney— as in this splash from issue #77 (Oct. 1969). Clearly, Big John was up to the job of drawing the Wall-Crawler—but he hated the character!

Script by Stan Lee. Note that John Romita is listed as “consultant emeritus in residence,” which reflected the Jazzy One’s status as artistic consultant and overseer, as per Stan’s dictum. Thanks to Barry Pearl.

(Above:) One of JB’s best-conceived Avengers covers, for #69 (July ’69), as inked by Sam Grainger. In this case, John didn’t illustrate the story inside. Courtesy of the Grand Comics Database.

[TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

Fee Fi Faux Fum! We Smell The Blood Of A Photoshop Hum!

A Battle At Sea Crom bless the ever-lovin’ Internet! Some facile somebody turned the John Buscema/Frank Giacoia cover of Sub-Mariner #2 (June 1968) into a battle between Prince Namor and the Distinguished Competition’s Aquaman, standing in for Marvel’s Triton from the original. Courtesy of Sasquatch Media, via Pinterest—with thanks to Dan Hagen. [Aquaman TM & © DC Comics; Sub-Mariner & other cover art TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Law And Order—Parodic Intent Somebody on the Internet fooled around with the John Buscema/ Ernie Chan cover of What If? #13 (Feb. 1979) to turn it into a comicbook episode of TV’s Law and Order—but at least they didn’t mess around with the Star Wars movie poster that writer/editor Roy T. had John draw as part of the background. Roy’s happy to have the original art for this cover hanging in his and Dann’s foyer, courtesy of Big John’s generosity.

[Conan TM & © Heroic Signatures LLC.]

15

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A 2001 Interview With Big John Buscema

“These Are A Few Of My Favorite Things” (Above:) Collector Jeff Hamett, for whom John Buscema did this Silver Surfer illo, says that the artist pronounced one of his favorite commission pieces. [Silver Surfer TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Top right:) Big John gets a laugh out of being photographed in the Marvel offices with a huge Conan cut-out. Found on the Internet

by John Cimino.

(Right:) One of the last pages John Buscema ever penciled was this splash page for the second issue of the never-published DC “Elseworlds” mini-series tentatively titled: JLA: Barbarians. In writer Roy Thomas’ mind, the series had started out as what would have amounted to a What If? offering: “What If Superman Had Come to Earth during the Hyborian Age?” Inker uncertain. Thanks to Shane Foley. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“[The Comics Business] Gave Me Three Square Meals A Day”

“We’re Off To See The Wizard…”

(Above:) John B. also had the distinction of penciling the first-ever cross-company publishing “collaboration” between Marvel and DC, in 1976’s Marvelous Wizard of Oz, when he and Roy Thomas adapted the 1939 MGM film (minus the song lyrics, alas). Finishes/inks by Tony DeZuniga and The Tribe. In terms of the talents employed it was totally a Marvel show. Thanks to Mike Mikulovsky & the Diversions of the Groovy Kind website. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

[continued from p. 13] BUSCEMA: Well, it gave me three square meals a day, you know… paid the rent.

DA: Kept you drawing so that you kept your talent up.

BUSCEMA: It’s a job. I don’t take that great pride in it, you know?

I’ve never been a comicbook artist. Like, some guys, that’s all they want. Joe Kubert, for example. That’s all he wants. This is his life.

I’ve talked to other guys. They dream, they eat it, they sleep it. They love it. I can do without it.

DA: Do you feel confident that at least you’re good at it?

BUSCEMA: Well, by this time, if I don’t know if I’m good at it, there’s no hope for me.

NOTE: For a longer interview with John Buscema, see Alter Ego #15.

Land Ho! (Right:) Big John didn’t draw the cover of the Marvelous Wizard of Oz tabloid— but at issue’s end, he did pencil and ink an ad for Marvel’s follow-up, The Marvelous Land of Oz. Thanks to John Haufe. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc., in conjunction with TM & © owners of the Wizard of Oz film rights.]

17

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“Why Is She Doing Paste-Ups In Production?”

19

MARIE SEVERIN On Comics & Censorship Interview Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Marie Severin, one of the mostly unalloyed joys of the Marvel Bullpen in the 1960s and counting, unfortunately gave out relatively few interviews before her passing a few years back. We’re fortunate that Dave Armstrong cajoled her into one at the SDCC in 2000….

Depression. Somehow my parents always had stuff for us to draw on, and we never had to turn it over and do on the other side.

So we were middle-class Depression.

DA: Did you have any formal art training?

SEVERIN: Well, yeah, I went to Cartoonists and Illustrators School, but that was not like high-class stuff. I think I had what I thought DAVID ARMSTRONG: …Okay. Marie, was adequate at the time at home, because when did you start drawing as my father was a painter. He a kid? was a package designer in Mirthful Marie Severin MARIE SEVERIN: I don’t real life. I had been signed (as Stan Lee christened her in the 1960s) in a 2000 photo—flanked by examples of how up to go to Pratt Institute, remember. It was very well she could handle a certain green-tinged titan both seriously and humorously.

(Below left:) Her dramatic cover for The Incredible Hulk #105 (July 1968), as inked young, because everybody and my brother John was

by Frank Giacoia. (Below right:) The splash page of her hilarious Hulk takeoff in Not in the house drew. So we going to pay for that. But Brand Echh #3 (Oct. ’67), as scripted by Gary Friedrich. Photo courtesy of Alex Grand. always had paper. It was the I said, “Heck, I want to go [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

20

Marie Severin On Comics & Censorship

terrible graveyard with some guy running up after somebody or a lady screaming with her dress maybe above her knee or something—the censor would come right down. Now, Al Feldstein maintains that this was a scheme solely by the other [comics] publishers. I think it was also political. I think Kefauver was a great help in getting that, making a name for himself…. But I can’t see that the publishers would be all for that, because they were getting censored, too.

I mean, I went up to Stan Lee and we couldn’t do anything, you know? And it wasn’t that we wanted to do bad things. It was the action of it… that’s what a kid wants… excitement. And they took that all away. Marvel—it was called Timely at that point—they went under and they fired the whole bullpen and everybody went their certain ways except the key artists like [John] Severin, [Joe] Maneely. Bill Everett was there. I think they did freelance then.

Of course, the real fast and professional and good styles always seemed to survive. But I was always very bitter, because so many of these guys came home from the war and stuff and their lives had been interrupted. And then they were working, trying hard, paying

Tales From The Colorist Marie’s color guide (done for the workers who actually prepared the color overlays for the comics) for a Jack Davis-drawn story from EC’s Tales from the Crypt #40 (Feb.-March 1954). Written by Bill Gaines & Al Feldstein. From the Internet. [TM & © William M. Gaines Agent, Inc.]

out and earn money,” you know? So I got a job down on Wall Street.

And then when John was working at EC, they were dissatisfied with the coloring….

DA: When the company ended up folding, Mad stayed on as a black-&white book. What’d you do?

SEVERIN: Well, I thought Mad would never last. I could have stayed there. But, you know, how could it last? They’re going to run out of humor! They don’t have Harvey [Kurtzman] anymore. What are they going to do? And I was basically a colorist at that point. I wasn’t doing that much art. I wasn’t selling any art.

And so I went up to Stan Lee and worked with Stan Lee until he folded up because the censoring got so bad that you couldn’t even have a gun going off on a Western cover or somebody chasing somebody in a

Six-Guns? Hey, We Only Counted Three Of ’Em!

John Severin

After EC Comics folded up shop except for Mad magazine, Marie’s older brother John soon got a staff job at Timely/Atlas Comics, as per his exquisitely detailed cover for Wyatt Earp #14 (Nov. 1957). Coming from a Comics Code era that wouldn’t let the Western heroes shoot anybody, this one sure features six-guns prominently! Thanks to Tom Lammers. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why Is She Doing Paste-Ups In Production?”

21

off houses, just getting married, and their business is wiped out.

And I thought, “These scrounges that did this!”

And today, when you look back at what was done, all our stories had a good moral. They were comical. They were like Grimm fairy tales. The humor stuff was superb. There was nothing off-color with any of that stuff. Willie [Elder] will tell you the story of his Santa Claus story. I mean, it’s classic humor. It’s wonderful.

And what he added was fabulous.

DA: Was Maneely at Atlas when you were there?

SEVERIN: Yes. Delightful. I had a crush on him, too. I had a crush on Graham Ingels. Had one on Johnny Craig. It’s okay now because they’re older, so I can tell. And then Joe Maneely, he was great.

DA: People have told me that Stan and Joe had a great relationship.

SEVERIN: Insofar as you pick the guy that you relate easiest to when you’re doing the most with him, like Stan Lee did later on with John Romita. You know, John wasn’t the fastest one in the

Plenty Of Room At The Top (Above:) There was little doubt in Marie Severin’s mind (or in Ye Editor’s) that Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko would still have found plenty of work to do for Stan Lee during the original “Marvel Age of Comics” even if the super-prolific and super-talented Joe Maneely hadn’t tragically died in 1958. Marie (and Roy) had even less doubt that Maneely could have held his own as a super-hero artist during that era, as witness his dynamic cover for Sub-Mariner #37 (Dec. 1954).

Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Joe Maneely Courtesy of daughter Nancy Maneely.

Strange But True!

(Above:) We’re hopping a bit out of chronological order here, but we wanted to show you the very first splash page that Marie ever penciled (and which she inked, as well): “Doctor Strange” in Strange Tales #153 (Feb. 1967). Script by Stan Lee. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

22

Marie Severin On Comics & Censorship

Captain, O My Captain!

Here’s a dynamic double-header for you! (On the left:) Marie’s neverpublished cover for Captain America #125 (May 1970), probably inked by Frank Giacoia, and supplied by dealer Mike Burkey. (On the right:) The published cover for that issue, by the same art team. Why did editor Stan Lee (or maybe still-publisher Martin Goodman) nix the former in favor of the latter? Only the unspeaking comicbook gods know! But it may have had something to do with America’s rising disenchantment with the Vietnam War. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Strange But True A color commission illustration of Dr. Strange by Marie Severin, previously unpublished. With thanks to Jeffrey Harnett. [Dr. Strange TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why Is She Doing Paste-Ups In Production?”

23

Don’t Fall Asleep In This Deep!

(Left:) Marie illustrated the Marvel Age Sub-Mariner comic for some time—and her eerie cover for issue #16 (Aug. 1969) could practically have belonged in an EC horror mag! Inks by Frank Giacoia—while the coloring is credited by the GCD to young artist Frank Brunner, who briefly worked on staff at Marvel during this period. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

world, but he did exactly what Stan wanted. He did the kind of women he wanted. He told the kind of story. He was accurate. He was slow, but he could interpret what Stan wanted easily. And he didn’t give him a hard time. I think Maneely and Stan got along that way, too. I didn’t think of Joe as an art director. I think Stan was always the art director. But Joe was the one that he would call upon for something that he wanted to get across his own way.

DA: Well, he certainly did a lot of the covers.

SEVERIN: Oh, yeah. Joe was incredibly fast.

DA: If he’d lived, there might not have been all the Kirby characters that came out [in the 1960s].

SEVERIN: I don’t know. I think Stan knew how to use people. My brother and Joe got along very well. They would enjoy doing the war stuff together and they would switch pages back and forth, covers back and forth. Nobody knew. “What are you doing?”

“Well, I want to do that now.” “Okay.” They sat together, you know, and go out to lunch together and stuff. [continued on p. 27]

Don’t Bank On It! (Below:) A gigantic illustration that Marie drew (probably in the early 1960s) while working for the Federal Reserve—as lovingly restored digitally for this issue of Alter Ego by Alex Grand. Thanks a heap, Alex! This looks to us like a monumentally more detailed version of the cartoon caricatures Marie would later draw around the Marvel offices, rather than a part of the banking-related comicbook she mentions. In the 1970s, she did a similar cartoon re the Marvel offices for an issue of F.O.O.M. Magazine. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

24

Marie Severin On Comics & Censorship

Swords, Sorcery, & Severin A triptych of sword-and-sorcery images by Marie Severin, who wound up virtually specializing in the genre for a time. (Clockwise from above left:) Marie’s unused cover sketch for Marvel’s Chamber of Darkness #4 (April 1970) would have spotlighted the Roy Thomas/Barry Smith one-shot story “The Sword and the Sorcerer,” featuring their hero Starr the Slayer—who became a visual prototype for their rendition of Conan the Barbarian later in the year. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] She drew this Kull sketch at an NYC comics convention in 1974 for Eileen Colton, the wife of the former editor of USA Today newspaper. [Kull TM & © Kull Properties, Inc., or successors in interest.]

Later, for a lark, the “first lady of Not Brand Echh” drew and colored this illo of the Incredible Hulk—er, we mean, the Inedible Bulk—discovering the sword-and-sorcery genre. This pic was originally shown online, misattributed to Herb Trimpe. Courtesy of Dewey Cassell. [Bulk TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why Is She Doing Paste-Ups In Production?”

They Call Her Marie Severin, Esquire!

This pair of two-page spreads is only part of the flashy artwork Marie Severin provided to the September 1966 issue of the then-renowned Esquire magazine—which in turn helped lead to her promotion to being a featured artist at Marvel, courtesy of Merry Marty Goodman himself! Thanks to Michael T. Gilbert. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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Marie Severin On Comics & Censorship

Kull-ing The Comics (Left:) Marie’s cover sketch for Kull the Conqueror #10 (Sept.

1973). Thanks to Richard Howell.

(Right:) The published cover for that issue, penciled

by Marie and inked by her brother John, a renowned comic artist since the latter 1940s. Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Heroic Signatures, LLC.]

Three-Way Tussle (Above:) Two different sketches by Marie for the cover of Sub-Mariner #31 (Nov. 1970), depicting Namor battling both Triton and Stingray. Stan picked the latter, and had Sal Buscema do the finished cover, which is seen at right. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why Is She Doing Paste-Ups In Production?”

Marie Herself, However, Was Un-limited!

A Marvel-approved limited-edition print that Marie drew—and of course colored—some years back, depicting her with a passel of power-packed personnel. From the Internet. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[continued from p. 23] DA: So you left EC and you went through all that stuff and then you segued into Marvel. And then this whole revival of super-heroes.

SEVERIN: I worked for a little while at the Federal Reserve Bank and put out a comicbook for them and had a film strip on mythology. And I was told my work looked too much like a comicbook. And it was a good story… Pandora’s box. You should have seen what I had coming out of that box! And then I was doing art. I was really into it then. And then I went to Stan’s to see if I could get some freelance, because I left that film strip place. They were going out of business.

Up at Marvel, Stan didn’t even look at my portfolio. Put me on production right away. And then later on there was an opportunity.

They wanted Kirby art for this thing in Esquire magazine. On the drugs in college. Sol Brodsky, the production manager, said, “We can’t spare Kirby for something like that. Send Marie. Maybe she could handle it.” I got five pages in Esquire magazine. When it came out, Mr. Goodman said, “Why is she doing paste-ups in production?”

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And then I got to do artwork, and I wasn’t pushy. I didn’t have to support a family. I was living at home at the time, so I was no competition to the guys. It was only later on, when I was an old lady, that the young kids came in and we also had royalties… so there was a lot of competition for money. Some of it was personal, because, you know, guys, what does a woman want to do this stuff for? And the woman didn’t really care that much about men who looked like they were deformed… and women who looked like they were drawn by men who know not women, you know. But my stuff was never that wacky. But the super-heroes were okay. I think I told a good story.

DA: There weren’t that many women doing comics then.

SEVERIN: No, Ramona [Fradon] and myself, and [earlier] Tarpé Mills.

Stan Lee was a riot. So into it, so creative. And he knew how to tap your head, too. When I worked for Stan Lee in the ’60s, he would show: “I want the fella to come through like this, you know?” [gestures as if charging at reader] That’s part of the whole deal. In comics, the best kinds are people who get into it, really into it. So that was fun. And they called him Smiley. He was absolutely charming. The women love him, you know. But he was good, too. I liked working with Stan very much.

Art by John Romita.

Captain America TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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“I Really Enjoyed Working As A Cartoonist”

GEORGE TUSKA On Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, Marvel, & DC Interview Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand

A/E

Genial George Tuska may be holding up a latter-day Superman drawing in this vintage photo, but he did his best-remembered super-hero art for Marvel’s Iron Man series. Case in point: the cover of issue #5 (Sept. 1968), inked

by Frank Giacoia—George’s very first cover for Stan and the gang. Thanks to the GCD. [Cover TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

EDITOR’S NOTE: George Tuska was a real gentleman. You could sense it whenever you encountered him, even briefly. He was also one of those rare comicbook artists who have enjoyed more than one period during which they were successful and even influential. He was admired by most of the industry for his work on the Biro/Wood Crime Does Not Pay of the 1940s & ’50s… he achieved the common comicbook illustrator’s dream of drawing a major newspaper strip (Buck Rogers), and for several years at Marvel, he was one of the artists who could most be counted on to sell a comicbook—not just Iron Man but The Avengers, Sub-Mariner, and others. And he would top it all off with another comic-strip stint, on DC’s World’s Greatest Super-Heroes, starring Superman. This brief interview was conducted by Dave Armstrong at the 1997 San Diego Comic-Con. GEORGE TUSKA: My mother was born in Kiev, Ukraine. She came into the United States in 1880, and my brother and sister were born in New York. My mother moved to Hartford , Connecticut, so I was born [there] on April 26, 1916.

When I was young, I was in a hospital for an appendix operation, and after the operation I was able to walk around the hospital, where an elderly patient showed me how to draw Uncle Sam, cowboys, and Indians. That was the start.

Before working for comics, I went to the National Academy of Design art school. I did the cosmetic drawing for bracelets, planning design. I didn’t care too much for it; that was my first job, and I don’t think we can call it art, but it was not my thing. I went to school to learn painting, alternative media, because my biggest desire was to become an illustrator. Back then there was a lot of illustration art: Argosy, Saturday Evening Post, American magazines. But when I got into comics, it was just about the same thing. It was illustration. But later on the illustrators disappeared because the magazines had gone away. It became different.

DAVID ARMSTRONG: You went to school with Jack Kirby?

TUSKA: The first time I met Jack Kirby was at an art school downtown in Manhattan, and he did comical pencils, which is fast, and I enjoyed watching him do all that. We had lunch together; he

30

George Tuska On Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, Marvel, & DC

was from Brooklyn. I lived uptown, West Side, 200th Street.

My first job in comics was with Eisner & Iger professionally.

I got it through a professional agency, and Iger called for me for samples. He didn’t explain what kind of samples, but I made individual cartoons and I showed it to him and they said that that is not the same way they do it. I asked him what it is, so they showed me a comicbook: “This is what it is.” I said, “Give me a chance.”

He said, “Sure.” I went home and I came back with a package the following day… a completed story all lettered and everything, with borders. He liked it very much. It was a story about a Mounted Policeman and some criminal, and they bought it for five dollars.

They asked me if I wanted to work in the office. I said, “That’d be fine,” and they showed me four fellows then. There was Bob Powell, Lou Fine and Jerry Iger and Will Eisner.

Later on, as time went by, we moved from 42nd Street to 44th Street and it expanded with more artists and cartoonists. I was together mostly with Eisner; we were both talking about stories.

Will Eisner had a lot of imagination in what he was doing. I could say one thing, that he was a producer, director, and an actor on paper. There wasn’t much writing for artists then, and I got along with Eisner. He told me about when this guy should hit this guy and then throw a bomb at this guy, and I’d say, “Fine, I could

do that….” At most levels, Eisner was the one that really helped me with my work.

DA: Did he do layouts?

TUSKA: It was complete layouts, inking and drawing. Then you’d write the lettering in, but I don’t do the lettering and the ink.

I complete the border… and how many panels per page. I write the story first, and then from there I put one panel, two panels, three panels, four panels. I would follow all that up and put it on the paper and then come to Eisner and show it to him. Then he would say, “This could be changed a little” or “that could be changed, but this is good.” That helped a lot and it brought my interest up more. I brought it back home; I fixed it over and I did it. I felt good about that.

DA: Did you see those folks outside of the office?

TUSKA: There were no other artists I knew, just the ones that were already in the office, but later on, there got to be more and more and more from a different office to another…. The more I did that, the more I got to know more artists and they got to know me.

DA: Where did you go after the Eisner shop?

TUSKA: I quit Eisner because Iger had about ten artists. Each one had about 5 or 6 stories to do a month. Pages were not much per story: 5, 6, something like 7, compared to today. Some artist dropped out. Iger can’t get another artist, so he takes his work and distributes it to another artist, and it makes more work for them to figure out in one month. And then another artist dropped out, and it would still get distributed again. There was one point when he came after me and said, “Hurry up with the deadline—you could take some home and work there.” It was a little too much for me. One day we all went out to lunch, and I told them I have to see someone.

I never returned to Eisner & Iger. I got along very well with Eisner, but I hadn’t done anything for two weeks. I just loafed around. I went into a cafeteria on 23rd Street between 6th and 7th Avenue. I met two fellows that worked with Eisner & Iger, Charlie Sultan and another fellow, David Glaser. We got to see each other feeling that we worked together at Iger and Eisner and… he says, “We quit a week after you did.” He said, “It was getting too much for all of us,” and he says, “Across the street is Harry ‘A’ Chesler, he’s got a studio.” I called him and he needs artists, “How about you coming up with me?” I said, “Fine.”

Science Marches On!

Portrait Of The Man As A Young Artist

Some of Tuska’s earliest work: a “Cosmic Carson” page from Fox’s Science Comics #2 (March 1940). Scripter unknown. Thanks to Henry Andrews.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

George, circa 1938-41. Photo courtesy of son Robert Tuska, via Dewey Cassell.

I went up there to the fourth floor and they introduced me to Chesler…. I enjoyed working for Chesler. It was close, there was no art director there or anything like that, but they had a nice group of artists: Charlie Sultan, Al Plastino, Joey Cavallo, Ruben Moreira. Ruben Moreira was into more of the fine arts. He didn’t care much for comics. He did Tarzan or something like that, but Chesler was more or less like

“I Really Enjoyed Working As A Cartoonist”

a father. Al Plastino was doing the Superman newspaper then and invited me to his place in New Jersey. We had a ball; it was a really good get-together.

DA: How long did you work for him?

TUSKA: About five years or so. Will Eisner separated from Iger somehow. I don’t know how or what, but he had a studio in Tudor City, 42nd Street. He wanted me to work on Uncle Sam and other things, and they were doing The Spirit, and once in a while I would help him with The Spirit. I got along together with Eisner again all of that stuff. It was kind of home, it was nice.

DA: And how long did you do that?

TUSKA: Two years or so. ’43, ’42, I think DA: Before Eisner went into the service?

TUSKA: I was working at Fiction House, and the same artists were there... here and there. I was also drafted by the Army. I was in Fort Jackson, South Carolina, 100th Division. Artillery. They noticed my condition; I had a slight loss of hearing. They asked me to work in headquarters…. It was for me to make a large plan, so

31

the officer consulted other officers in the classroom: how the bullets would drop behind the mountain with the enemy inside, and so forth…. I enjoyed it very much, but I felt a little guilty about all these other fellows passing by after a long long day hiking or dead tired, and I’m driving a Jeep. I felt really really lousy about that... and then they released me and I went back to Fiction House.

Fiction House wasn’t the same anymore. The fellows were not around. It was girls and older men. We used to kid around a lot, but now it was different. So I just told [the manager] I want to work freelance.

Funny thing about working at home. Nobody was around there, so you had to get used to it. It took me about a month or so, but working freelance I had more privacy; you know, all the visual references all around me. I was sort of contented by them, and I was making more pages a day, drawing out as much work as I can.

DA: So you liked working freelance?

TUSKA: Yes. If I ever go back to an office, I think it’ll take about two months to get used to it. Freelance I enjoy very much.

DA: What kinds of storied did you do at Fiction House?

TUSKA: There was “Sheena,” “Secret Agents,” something like that—I don’t recall too much….

DA: When you finished the job, did you go into the office?

TUSKA: I did return when my work was completed, and then they would give me another script and I would go to Florida and then come back or mail it back. But still, it was kind of empty with the fellows not around.

Rumble In The Jungle George T.’s cover for Fiction House’s Jungle Comics #13 (Jan. 1941)— juxtaposed with a commission drawing he did in later years of Shanna the She-Devil. He had penciled the first issue of her Marvel comic, cover-dated December 1972. Thanks to the GCD and Dominic Leonard, respectively. [Jungle cover TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders; Shanna TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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George Tuska On Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, Marvel, & DC

Let George Do It! After his Fiction House days, Tuska was in demand both by Standard/Pines, for whom he did this “Black Terror” story for Exciting Comics #67 (May 1949—writer unknown)… and Timely/Atlas, where, with writer/editor Stan Lee, he drew a horror story for Menace #5 (July 1953)…

But his absolute acme, at least prior to the Silver Age, was his colossal cops-androbbers output for Lev Gleason’s ultra-popular Crime Does Not Pay, for whose March 1947 issue (#50) he drew the “true” story of the very real Fleagle Brothers.

The scripters of these stories, except for Stan Lee, are unidentified—but scans were provided to us by the well-identified Michael T. Gilbert, Dewey Cassell, and Jim Amash, respectively. [Menace splash TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

“I Really Enjoyed Working As A Cartoonist”

That Crazy Buck Rogers Stuff The black-&-white version of the Tuska-drawn Buck Rogers newspaper strip for Sunday, Dec. 29, 1963—and a later color commission George did of Buck and Wilma in their glory days. Both pieces courtesy of Dewey Cassell. [Buck Rogers TM & © The Dille Family Trust or successors in interest.]

DA: So what did you do after you left Fiction House? Where did you go?

What other features did you do?

TUSKA: There was Standard… Standard Publications. Stan Lee. I called up Timely at the Empire State Building. Stan hired me. I kept working for him when the comic business got slack, and somebody told me about [the daily strip] Scorchy Smith at the Associated Press. I went up there, and they didn’t like the person who was doing it. I showed them samples, and I was accepted. They asked me if I wanted to do stories and I said, “Great.” I’d bring that into the city every now and then, maybe for three or four years.

Somebody called up from Chicago and says, “I’m from the National Newspapers Syndicate” [or whatever it was] and said, “We have here Buck Rogers.” Buck Rogers was more popular than Scorchy Smith.

I said, “I don’t know, because I know the fellow that’s doing it and I don’t want to take it out of his hands,” so he says, “I’ll call you in a week, and you let me know; otherwise I might give it to somebody else.” I was in between, so I accepted it, and I worked for them for quite a while. I remember doing all sorts of small things for them also like golf instructions... things like that. The big missing thing in Buck Rogers when I was doing it was Wilma (Deering). She wasn’t there. Wilma has always been with Buck, but somehow, I don’t know... I think a hero’s got to have a girl!

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George Tuska On Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, Marvel, & DC

I Know Why The Caged Tuska Sings!

(Above:) A Tuska pencil sketch of Luke Cage, a.k.a. Hero for Hire, a.k.a.

Power Man. George was the series’ first penciler. Thanks to Dewey Cassell.

[Cage TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Apache Trails To You—Until We Meet Again!

(Above:) Tuska did a brief Western stint working for downstream Farrell Publications on this sagebrush saga for Apache Trail #2 (Nov. 1957). Scripter unknown. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

…And Justice For All! (Right:) When editor Stan Lee got hold of one of his favorite artists from Biro’s Crime Does Not Pay, he was quick to have him draw a crime caper for Timely/Atlas’ own Justice #41 (Nov. 1953). Scripter unknown. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“I Really Enjoyed Working As A Cartoonist”

35

Sometime later, I got a call saying they discontinued Buck…. I called Stan Lee at Marvel. “Come on over!” My first time with “Captain America.” There’s a difference [between] comicbooks and the newspaper [strips]. In the newspapers, there’s not too much flashy stuff... but with the comics there’s more action, more fighting, more panel after panel. After so long away from the comicbooks, I was called upstairs to Stan. He said, “Come in the office... Hey that’s not right, guys should go Bam!” [laughs] I mean, it was very interesting. I enjoyed it very much. With him, I got into the swing of it. I was doing quite a bit for him: Spider-Man, Daredevil, Fantastic Four. I always kept getting stories of Iron Man, and I got to sort of get used to it. I got to like it. It became a series.

DA: When did you stop working at Marvel?

TUSKA: In the [mid-]‘70s, something like that, although sometimes I think I made a mistake on it. DC Comics asked me if I wanted to do a DC newspaper strip. I didn’t know anyone there, I knew mostly in Marvel. I told Stan about that. “You can’t do this to me...” He was upset.

“Look,” I said, “let’s think about it. I’ll let you know.” But I didn’t. I accepted it. Superman. I didn’t enjoy it at all… the stories, the inker. There was no art director there to tell [continued on p. 38]

When George Was A Real Sleeper!

(Above:) George’s first Silver Age work for Marvel was penciling and inking over Jack Kirby’s layouts for “Captain America.”

Script by Stan Lee. This splash from Tales of Suspense #73 (Jan. 1966) is courtesy of Barry Pearl, as is the following one.

(Right:) Mr. T. took to Iron Man like a metal fish to water—or maybe to mercury. By issue #12 (April ’69) the previous penciler of ol’ Shellhead, Johnny Craig, had become the comic’s inker—a blockbuster combination, the more so because of Archie Goodwin’s mature scripts. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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George Tuska On Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, Marvel, & DC

George Of The Jungle George did this page of Ka-Zar drawings for collector Dominic Leonard. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

All Aboard!

The cover for Iron Man #9 (Jan. 1969) was illustrated by an all-star cast!

Tuska penciled, and recent Iron Man artist Johnny Craig inked—while staff artists John Romita and Marie Severin reportedly made “alterations” to both pencils and inks! Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Where’s David When You Really Need Him? Splash page for Black Goliath #1 (Feb. 1976). Script by Tony Isabella; inks by Vince Colletta. Thanks to Dewey Cassell.

[TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“I Really Enjoyed Working As A Cartoonist”

37

The World’s Greatest Superheroes (Left:) A color ad, featuring Tuska art, for DC’s late-’70s newspaper comic strip The World’s Greatest Superheroes, the more inclusive successor to the longrunning Superman strip that had been around since 1939.

(Below:) The WGSH (or should it just be WGS?) Sunday strip for April 9, 1978, as penciled by Tuska and inked by Vince Colletta. Script by Martin Pasko. Both scans courtesy of Dewey Cassell.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

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George Tuska On Crime Does Not Pay, Buck Rogers, Marvel, & DC

“Gorgeous George Tuska” as seen in the 1975 Marvel Con program book.

This One’s For All The Marvels!

(Above:) One of Tuska’s signature characters, even though his costume and look had been designed by Marvel art director John Romita, was Luke Cage, as per this splash from Hero for Hire #1 (June 1972). Inks by Billy Graham.

Thanks to Barry Pearl.

(Right:) But George said his favorite feature to draw was Iron Man—as represented by this dramatic cover for issue #21 (Jan. 1970), with inks by Mike Esposito. Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[continued from p. 35] anybody what’s what. Vinnie Colletta was the art director, but he didn’t bother anything going on for two cents. Then I decided not to do it anymore… that I would like to do their comicbooks, and after a while I didn’t do much and I just stopped.

DA: Tell me your favorite thing about all the work that you’ve done.

TUSKA: I would say Iron Man. Something about Iron Man, the way Stan explained it. It was solid. I enjoyed it. To tell the truth I really enjoyed working as a cartoonist.

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“Why?”

JIM MOONEY Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC Interview Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Besides being a talented artist, Jim Mooney was clearly a good talker as well. You want proof? By his own account, he talked his way into becoming an artist on “Batman” as his first DC assignment—then the company’s second-most-important feature—and later became one of the few Timely (future Marvel) artists who was counted as one of Stan Lee’s best friends. If he had contributed nothing to the field but “Batman” and “Spider-Man,” he would have earned a place in comics history… but there were plenty of other triumphs along the way. This conversation was videotaped by David Armstrong in San Diego in 1997.

Jim (Madman) Mooney in his prime, above iconic illustrations he did for two of the heroes with which he’s most associated: His Batman cover for Detective Comics #151 (Sept.

1949), courtesy of the GDC [TM & © DC Comics]— —and the splash page of Amazing Spider-Man #69 (Feb. ’69), one of the first issues in which he is credited for “illustration” (over John Romita’s “storyboards” = layouts) rather than “mere” inking as in a couple of earlier issues. Script by Stan Lee. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

DAVID ARMSTRONG: How did you get interested in drawing in the first place?

JIM MOONEY: I was living in LA at the time, and I was going to what was later the Art Institute of Los Angeles. It was Otis Art Institute in those days. In those early days, I got involved with a sci-fi league in Los Angeles, and I met Forry Ackerman and Henry Kuttner and some of the other sci-fi luminaries. Then they were just guys starting out, and we used to go to Clifton’s Cafeteria and have our meeting once a month. And I loved it, you know… it was great. And I became very good friends with both Forry and Henry Kuttner. And Henry was writing for Weird Tales [pulp magazine] in those days, and said, “Jim, why don’t you just make a couple of sketches and show Farnsworth Wright,” who was the editor at that time. He liked them. He said, “Next script, Hank, let Jim illustrate it.” And I was, what, about 17 going on 18 then. So, I mean, I felt I was just going to be another Norman Rockwell.

MOONEY: Yeah, Lou Fine was a tremendous influence because the guy was just very exciting. The poses were so well thought out… the way he drew folds, the way he did hair, the way he did everything was just very, very interesting. I look back now and I still am well aware of how talented he was, but it looks a little stiff now. It looks a little bit like Hogarth stuff. Now, Hogarth is a master draftsman, and he’s a great anatomist. He knows just about everything, but it has a sort of a mannequin-like look. I mean, a little stiff. Even when he was doing Tarzan, it looked like it was posed. It didn’t look like life.

DA: I share your opinion about Hogarth. Even Foster, which is fairly clean and very nice—his Tarzan has a lot more life to it.

MOONEY: Oh, yeah. Foster was a master. It looks old-fashioned now, but it was well-drawn. It was well-conceived. The composition was great. And he told a very intriguing and absorbing story.

DA: And comicbooks. Had they started?

MOONEY: They were just coming out then…. I think at that time it was beginning to be original material. There were a lot of reprints, you know, like Famous Funnies. It’s hard to remember exactly, but I think some of the newer, original material was on the stands then.

DA: Did you start to do any comicbook work while you were in Los Angeles?

MOONEY: No, no. I took some samples with me when I went to New York. I decided I wanted to go to New York and give it a try. It was proliferating. There were a lot of comicbook publishers coming up like mushrooms after a summer rain. I thought, I’ll probably get some work here some way or another.

DA: Did you know [future DC editor] Mort Weisinger from the days in your science-fiction club in Los Angeles?

MOONEY: I met Mort with Julie Schwartz when he came out to see Hank Kuttner. It must have been 1939, maybe. He came out with Julie, and I showed him the town and he was—“There are a lot of nice babes there at your art school. You want to get me a date?” So I made excuses galore, but it worked out all right. So I kind of had the feeling, when I went to New York—well, I know Mort Weisinger, I showed him the town and so on, and this will be duck soup. I’ll get an assignment right away.

I did not. And Julie Schwartz was not at DC at that time.

DA: At one point he was an agent. Did he represent your work at all?

MOONEY: No, no, not at all. I never worked for Julie.

We always got along okay, but I don’t think it was something that was a workable professional relationship, maybe more from his part than mine. So I made the trek to New York and it was not too easy. The first real job I got was with Eisner & Iger Studios. I walked in there and I’m looking at the guy’s drawing and I thought, Wow, there is Lou. Fine! Look at what Will Eisner is doing!

Look what Nick Cardy is doing! I didn’t know their names then.

DA: Now, comicbooks in the early days were different from strips; it was a new medium. There were no real rules. You just kind of picked stuff up on your own or from other people….

Did you find anyone influenced you more than anyone else?

I, The Artist Mooney’s first (of apparently five) illustrations printed in Weird Tales accompanied Henry Kuttner’s story “I, the Vampire,” in its Feb. 1937 issue. According to pulp-art authority David Saunders, who supplied this piece, Jim had previously had had at least half a dozen fan-letters published in the magazine, between 1932 and ’36. Thanks to David and his invaluable resource pulpartists.com. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

“Why?”

41

do, but he asked me what I did and I said, “Oh, I pencil.” He said, “What else do you do?” I said, “I ink and anything else. I letter, I color.” He said, “Do you print the book, too?” So we hit it off pretty well; it was a sort of a love/hate relationship at first. I guess it still is, in a way.

DA: Someone told me you used to hang out with Stan every once in a while and share dates. Is that true?

MOONEY: It was very difficult, because I was married at the time and my wife and I were living up in Woodstock. Stan had a great apartment in a hotel on Broadway and 70th Street, somewhere in there, sort of a resident hotel. And when I’d come in to deliver my stuff, I’d stay with him overnight. And, you know, the guy had two girls, so somebody had to escort the other one. But that’s as far as it went. That was my first wife, and she’s long gone.

Spreading Like Wildfire One of Mooney’s early assignments, probably through the Iger shop, was drawing the feature “Wildfire”—as in this splash for Smash Comics #27 (Oct. 1941). Script by Robert Turner. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Anyway, I stuck it out, and I was there for a couple of weeks and I had put in an application at Ace Magazines. They needed a cartoonist for their new comicbooks, and they called me and made me a fairly decent offer, a little bit more than I was making at Eisner & Iger. I took them up on it because, for one thing, it was freelance with Eisner Studios. It was working in a bullpen, and I didn’t care much for that. I didn’t have the freedom that I was used to. I worked there for, I guess, maybe a year and a half.

At that time, funny-animal comics were beginning to become popular, and Timely was publishing a Terry-Toons [comic] and things of that type. I took a walk over there and I thought, this might be kind of fun. It doesn’t seem to be too demanding.

It pays fairly well. And I walked into the office and bumped into Stan Lee. Stan Lee was about 19 at the time and an office boy. Stan tells his story a little better than I

When Worlds Collude Jim Mooney & Stan Lee in later days—and JM’s splash page for a story in Timely/Atlas’ Journey into Unknown Worlds #42 (Feb. 1956). Scripter unknown. The photo was obviously taken some years after they met, of course—but Stan wasn’t really an “office boy” when he and Jim first encountered each other: Stan had become Marvel’s full editor in 1941, admittedly at the age of 18-19, following the departure of Joe Simon and Jack Kirby for DC Comics. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

if you’ve seen any of them. They always had some poor damsel in distress strapped to a table with a buzzsaw coming at her, with some fiend pushing buttons to make it hit various spots that might be very sensitive.

DA: When you started working for Stan at Timely, I think you said you worked on funny animals. Was that quite a departure from doing super-heroes?

MOONEY: I loved it. It was easy…. The humor was pretty juvenile… but it was still kind of fun. And mainly it was the idea of doing something that bordered on humorous cartooning.

DA: And how old were you when this happened?

MOONEY: 21, I think. 20 or 21.

DA: Now, this is just about the time of the war. Did you get drafted?

MOONEY: No, actually, when Pearl Harbor came about, like everyone else, I was—you know, I’ve got to do something about this. And I went down and tried to enlist, first in the Navy, and I was rejected. I figured the Army was going to get around to me

Lash Lightning Striking Again!

Mooney soon became the artist of the lead feature of Ace’s Lightning Comics, as per this splash from Vol. 2, #6 (April 1942). Scripter unknown. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

DA: Did you hear about the job because you had been working in the pulps and Ace was a pulp publisher?

MOONEY: I forget how it came down the grapevine, but I had heard about it. I made an application [to Ace], and the only pulp I had ever worked for was Weird Tales. I did know they were a publishing house for pulps.

DA: Their super-hero line didn’t last particularly long, and there are a couple of books that only lasted 4 or 5 issues. Banner and Our Flag. But the covers that were done for those books are spectacularly patriotic… obviously a reflection of the times. Were you given specific instructions as to how to make the covers spectacularly patriotic? .

MOONEY: Actually, it was almost obligatory at that time. I mean, you felt that if you didn’t do that, you might be blackballed and they might even draft you sooner than you thought. Anyway, I did most of those covers and some of the interiors.

DA: And did you enjoy working on any of the specific features?

MOONEY: I liked doing the covers. I didn’t care too much for the interiors, but you know, it was fun. Those covers were kind of unusual… because there was a tremendous amount of bondage,

How The Ginch Stole Terry-Toons One of the humor features that Jim Mooney drew for Timely during the WWII years was “The Ginch and E. Claude Pennygrabber,” as per this sample from the film-licensed Terry-Toons #6 (March 1943). Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo. But, far as we’ve been able to gather, there were no theatrical animated cartoons of those characters. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why?”

Jungle Daze Jim Mooney doesn’t seem to have drawn all that many stories for Fiction House’s Jungle Comics, but he did limn the “Camilla” story for #45 (Sept. 1943) and this “Kaänga” for #51 (March ’44). Scripters unknown. From the Internet.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

anyway. So, when they finally did, I was classified “limited service” and never saw action except behind a typewriter. That’s about what it amounted to.

43

Ingels, the “ghastly” Graham Ingels was there at the time. We were all pretty close. We had sort of an unholy three there. I would watch Ruben Moreira draw—and he drew beautifully—and Rube and I were very, very good friends. He was a much better draftsman than I was. And he tried to take me aside once in a while and say, “Jim, you don’t draw a shoulder like that. The deltoid comes down like this.” And he’d show me, and some of it stuck and some of it didn’t.

DA: And you ended up working through the war?

DA: Obviously, this is a beginning of a period when, as you said, you know, there were publishers springing up like mushrooms. Did you think it was going to last?

MOONEY: Yeah, that’s how I ended up at Fiction House. That was where the 4-Fs, the limited service, and all the budding female artists got their start, because they knew that they were going to be there for a while and books were going to be produced.

MOONEY: I really didn’t think about it. It seemed like it was forever, because it was a new business. I had no idea of the economics of it or anything else. I just thought, well, I guess this will go on as long as it possibly can. And that was all I knew anyway.

DA: So you’re there in ’42, ’43—and you end up doing most of the characters that were there.

DA: And so you worked at Fiction House. I assume you worked there through the end of the ’40s?

MOONEY: I did “Camilla the Jungle Girl”… “Suicide. Smith.”

Those were primarily the two I worked on, and I lasted there for about 8 or 9 months, I think. But that was another bullpen situation…. I just felt penned in… a little claustrophobic, being tied down like that. Actually, they were very lenient. I mean, we could take a coffee break and come back a half an hour later or three quarters of an hour later, which we often and usually did.

MOONEY: No, no. I stopped working there, I guess, about ’43. I just freelanced. I moved up to Woodstock, New York, picked up a little, little place there and freelanced from there.

DA: Did you socialize with any of the staff, any of the guys there?

MOONEY: Oh, yeah. George Tuska, of course, and Ruben Moreira, who later did the Tarzan strip for the newspaper.. And Graham

DA: How many different publishers did you work for from there?

MOONEY: Primarily Timely at that time. And then later on, when the bottom dropped out of the funny-animals field, everybody was scrounging. I mean, we were like rats deserting a sinking ship.

We’ve got to find another ship fast! And we didn’t find any. And I was fortunate enough to hear on the grapevine that somebody at DC was looking for a “Batman” artist. I walked up and presented

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

myself and a few samples, which were mainly stuff I’d done for Fiction House and not truly “Batman” style, and I presented them to Whitney Ellsworth, who was the editor-in-chief head honcho there at the time, and he looked them over and he said, “Yeah, they’re okay. But what makes you feel you’re going to be able to do Batman? This doesn’t look like Batman at all.”

I mentioned that, when I first started, I had done a strip called “The Moth” in [Ace’s] Mystery Men Comics. [The editor] had told me, “I’d like this to look sort of like Batman and Robin being a kid and very ingenuous and naive.” I made it look almost exactly like Batman and Robin…. They published it, and they were sued. So I was floundering around desperately to try to think of some reason that [Ellsworth] would feel that I would be the best “Batman” artist that he could use at the time. And I said, “Well, I’m sure you remember this. You sued Fox for a strip called ‘The Moth’ because it looked like ‘Batman and Robin.’ I drew it!”

DA: So did they give you the assignment to do “Batman”?

MOONEY: Yeah. Whitney was usually kind of deadpan. He wasn’t going to be impressed by any means, but he kind of did a little double-take and he said, “Well, I wonder if, under the circumstances, you ought to have a shot at it.” He said, “Take this script and give me a page. Just pencil it. You don’t have to ink it.

If we like it, you ink it and we’ll go from there.” So I took the page back to Woodstock with me, because I was in a hotel then in New York City, and came back in a couple of days with the penciled page. And he looked at it and he said, “Okay, it’s not too bad,”

which, you know, just made my day: “You’re not too bad.” But anyway, that was praise from Whitney. He said, “Okay, go ahead and ink it.”

And I inked it and sent it back to him, and he said, “We’re going to shoot you up a script by mail. And this is the deadline.

This is your first script.” And I turned it in. It was a strip called “The Carbon Copy Crimes,” which was the first “Batman” I did.

The [story] was based on an earlier strip by Bob Kane, and this was like, How can this happen again? All this same thing is going on again! And he liked it very much. He was very complimentary about it. And he said, “Well, we want to keep you on. How many can you handle?”

DA: You took over “Batman” as a feature in one of the specific books.

MOONEY: I think I did some in Detective, but at that time it was

“A Moth! That’s It! It’s An Omen! I Shall Become A Moth!”

Mooney says he got the assignment to draw “Batman” by reminding editor Whitney Ellsworth that DC had once threatened to sue Fox Comics over the “Moth” feature he had drawn in such mags as Mystery Men #9 (April 1940), a page from which is depicted below left. A/E’s editor personally doesn’t see that much similarity between the two strips… but DC’s lawyers apparently did. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Either way, Jim got the job—and proved himself with his very first published DC story, in Batman #38 (Dec. 1946-Jan. ’47)—“The Carbon Copy Crimes.”

Oddly, that story was printed in the middle of that comic, all three of whose “Batman” yarns that issue were illustrated by the DC newcomer! Script by Bill Finger. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“Why?”

primarily in Batman. I was fairly slow at the time, so I did a little over one strip a month, sometimes a little less—12 pages [in a story] at that time, I think it was.

DA: And how did you end up on “Supergirl”? You did strips in between.

MOONEY: Oh, I did a lot of strips—“Tommy Tomorrow” and so many other things. Star Spangled. And I did a lot of House of Mystery, House of Secrets, Strange Adventures, which I loved very much, because they were a little bit more like illustration. And about that time, I decided that I wanted to make a trek back to L.A. So we moved back there, acquired my studio on Hollywood Boulevard that I mentioned. That was ’53. I gave Jack Schiff and Mort Weisinger a lot of phony reasons, and they bought them, I think—or maybe they didn’t. I moved out and Mort said, “Well, give it a try.

I mean, you’re going to be back in a few months, aren’t you?” “Oh, sure, no problem.” I was there for ten years with one trip back to New York.

DA: Working through the mails didn’t bother either one of you after?

MOONEY: We got used to it. I was surprised. I thought, any time, they’re going to give me the ultimatum: “Mooney, come back. This isn’t working.” But it did work. It worked out fine during the DC days.

DA: Did you like working on continuing strips like “Supergirl” and “Tommy Tomorrow,” or did you get more enjoyment out of doing the mystery stories?

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MOONEY: I had much more of an interest and enjoyment in doing the mystery stuff, because it was semi-illustrative, and you could make it look a little bit more like your idols of that period, maybe a little bit like Flash Gordon or Hal Foster. It was a departure from the simplistic style of “Batman” and “Supergirl” at that time.

DA: Besides Hal Foster and Alex Raymond, what other artists did you use as your inspiration and emulate?

MOONEY: Well, Milt Caniff, too, although he wasn’t quite as exciting. He drew good figures, but they were more cartoony. They didn’t quite fit in with the traditional classical figures that Alex Raymond or Hal Foster drew.

After about ten years, Mort Weisinger was getting a little crotchety and wanted to call the shots closer to home: “We’ve got to have more close contact. This is important for a good book, and that way you’ll know what kind of gorilla I want to be drawn on the cover.” Anyway, I had to come back, and it was a fortuitous time, because I was going through a divorce with my first wife.

So I moved to Connecticut and stayed there until I moved over to Marvel in 1969. That was when all the head-rolling was going on.

Lights! Camera! Star Spangled/Action!

(Left:) Mooney had a fairly long run on the “Robin” lead features in Star Spangled Comics, including this tale from #76 (Jan. 1948). Script by Bill Finger. Thanks to Bob Bailey.

(Right:) He enjoyed an even longer run on the SF series “Tommy Tomorrow,” beginning in Action Comics #172 (Sept. 1952). Scripter unknown. Thanks to Doug Martin. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

A Mooney Montage We couldn’t resist! Collector Bob Bailey sent us these three splash pages, all by Jim Mooney, and all from Batman #48 (Aug.-Sept. 1948). Well, Charles Paris inked the “Penguin” and “Crime from Tomorrow” stories, but JM did full art on the other one—although of course Bob Kane’s byline is the only one on any of the pages. The “Bat-Cave” script is definitely

by Batman co-creator Bill Finger ; the writers of the other two are not positively identified. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“Why?”

47

DA: Did you find working for Marvel had a different style in terms of the way it’s put together than DC? MOONEY: Yeah. The synoptic method that Stan used was fun because you were a part of the action. You had an overall idea of what the story was going to be, and you broke it down page by page. You could use large panels, small panels, as many as you wanted or as few as you wanted. If it told the story. That was a departure that was very, very gratifying. At DC it was a straight script: there are six panels on this page and Batman enters from the left and somebody else comes in from the right. And you know, they do all sorts of great things in the middle. It was boring, really.

DA: So you got a kick out of working at Marvel. Do you have any favorite characters that you worked on at Marvel?

MOONEY: I liked Spider-Man pretty well. I did a few pencil jobs of my own on it, but most of the time I was finalizing and inking.

“The Battle Of The Super-Pets” This Mooney-drawn “Supergirl” story from Action Comics #373 (March 1969) was actually a reprint from Action #277 (June ’61). Script by Superman co-creator Jerry Siegel. Thanks to Ben Herman. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Carmine Infantino and some of the others had thought that we—Al Plastino, Jim Mooney, Wayne Boring, and George Papp—were very dispensable because we didn’t draw like Neal Adams or the new young. They were the Young Turks at that period. I held on a little longer than the rest.

Finally Mort said, “Jim, I’m afraid we haven’t any more scripts for you.” And I said, “You know, somewhere along the line, I think I got that impression.” So we parted company friends and I went over to Marvel to see Stan. I would always have preferred to work for Marvel, but their rates were far lower than DC, so I hung in there in spite of a lot of slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

From Mort Weisinger.

DA: How did you like getting back to work with Stan Lee? Did you get a kick out of the fact that here was this guy that you met as an office boy when he was 17 years old, who seemed to be on top of the world and in front of the media everywhere—is the head of this Marvel phenomenon?

MOONEY: Well, I knew that before, because I was living in Connecticut. I’d visit Stan at his place in Long Island, and they’d come out to my place in Connecticut… a couple of times a year or more. And when I walked in there and I mentioned what had happened, Stan didn’t rub my nose in it. He said, “Hey, we need somebody on the Spider-Man strip. John Romita needs an inker/ finalizer. We’ll give you a try on it.” And it worked out right away.

Mission: “Impossible” Mooney’s first assignment as Amazing Spider-Man’s inker (and probably finisher, over Romita layouts) occurred in issue #65 (Oct. 1968). Script by editor Stan Lee, who (as Roy T. recalls) half-seriously considered writing DC a “thank-you” letter for letting Jim go, just when he and co-plotter/layout artist John Romita needed an artist who could turn JR’s layouts into completed art.

Thanks to Barry Pearl. Oh, and if you wanna see a picture of John Romita, you’ll have to wait till our very next issue—which will be a total tribute to the artist who helped make Amazing Spider-Man Marvel’s best-selling title!

[TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

DA: The webs on his costume were okay for you?

MOONEY: I tried to draw them right, especially on that mask. That took a little bit of time.

DA: I remember Where Monsters Dwell. You did a couple of those.

MOONEY: And of course I did “Man-Thing” later on, and Omega [the Unknown]. Those were two of my absolute favorites, working with Steve Gerber. He’s a great writer. That was a departure, because Steve wrote a full script. When they told me that they were going to put me on “Man-Thing,” I thought, “Oh, and it’s going to be a full script and it’s going to be by this guy Steve Gerber, who I knew nothing about. Oh God, it’s like back to DC!” But I got the script and I read it over and I thought, “Hey, wait a minute, I can’t quarrel with anything here. This is okay.” It was a good meshing of talents.

DA: When did you move to Florida?

MOONEY: I moved to Florida in 1975 and I decided that I wasn’t going to freelance anymore. I negotiated for a contract where I was paid every couple of weeks, and I had to do a certain number of pages in return. This way, I just sent my work in for the ten years

Steve “Baby” Gerber was Jim Mooney’s favorite writer/collaborator, both on Man-Thing and on the title they co-created with writer Mary Skrenes, Omega the Unknown. Seen here are JM’s splash for Man-Thing, Vol. 2, #2 (Jan. 1980), inked by Bob Wiacek… and for Omega the Unknown #1 (March 1976), where he provided full art. The art at left was provided by Leonardo de Sá & Mark Muller… that above by Barry Pearl. The photo of Steve, incidentally, was taken at the late Earle & Dee Bowman’s Passport Books in Los Angeles’ San Fernando Valley area, probably in the late ’70s; thanks to Todd Reis. [Comic pages TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why?”

49

that I was under contract, and I retired in 1985. Supposedly.

DA: I was going to say, it seems to me you’re still drawing sometimes. You worked on the Superboy [TV] show for a brief period.

MOONEY: I worked on the comicbook that was a spinoff from the TV show. Yeah, the live-action one.

DA: Yeah. I interviewed the guys that worked on the series this morning: Andy Helfer and Mike Carlin.

MOONEY: I didn’t get a chance to meet Mike again. I worked with him at Marvel. He’s a really very nice person.

DA: What kind of projects are you working on now?

MOONEY: I’m doing Elvira occasionally. Pencil and ink for Claypool, and another one called Soul Searchers that Peter David is writing. It’s a fun strip. It’s an independent,. and the main detraction in working for an independent is their rate. They’re not up to the big publishing houses, but it’s a steady check and it comes in regularly and it’s a pleasant strip to do. In many ways, Elvira has certain advantages as far as I’m concerned. She’s a little curvier than

“Come Together, Right Now…” We found this Jim Mooney art online, but it took our Yancy Street Gang buddy Barry Pearl to find out for us where it came from: a 1997 special titled Untold Tales of Spider-Man. It was probably written by Roger Stern and Richard Howell, and was most likely created because of JM’s ties to both Spider-Man and to DC’s Jimmy Olsen comic, since the main drawing is a parody/homage to a 1960s cover of the latter mag. It serves as a playful reminder that Jim was equally at home at both companies. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Supergirl. You have a few more curved lines instead of all that flat-chested bit.

DA: You’ve been drawing for over 50 years professionally. Is it getting easier or tougher?

MOONEY: 56, actually. I’d say it’s getting easier. Thank God. It could be getting a lot tougher, you know, with arthritis and your hands screwing up and some of your faculties not quite what they once were, but luckily it’s working out pretty well.

Satan Is Waitin’!

While Jim drew for various companies (including DC again) in his later years, some of his most noted stints were on Marvel’s comics, including Ghost Rider #8 (Oct. 1974), where he was inked by Sal Trapani. Script by Tony Isabella. From the Internet. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

DA: How do you work? Do you work on your own? Is it a collaborative effort with someone, or do you end up working solitary?

MOONEY: Solitary. That’s why I won’t do sketches at the convention.

DA: This is the convention floor. You’re sitting there, I’m yakking.

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

Two For The Road Jim Mooney was the chief artist when The Son of Satan and Ghost Rider both segued from Marvel Spotlight #12 into Ghost Rider #3 (Dec. ’73)—and Jim was handling the mysterious motorcyclist in GR #4 (Feb. ’74). Well, not quite alone. On these occasions, for a change, he was only penciling, with John Tartaglione and Vince Colletta, respectively, handling the inking chores. Scripts by Gary Friedrich. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Why?”

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MOONEY: Well, that’s what I enjoy. I like to shoot the bull. That’s one of the reasons I’m here.

DA: So when was the first time you went to a comic book convention.

MOONEY: In New York City, probably ’67, ’68. I at first did not like it at all.

I’m still not absolutely sold on it. There are certain aspects of it I like, especially here where I’m meeting some of the old-timers that were friends in the past.

But some of the conventions were just you or maybe some local celebrity. The fans mean well. But, after a while, you’re hearing the same thing over and over again. It gets repetitious. So I haven’t gone to too many… only three or four in Florida.

DA: But the bigger the better, probably in terms of the diversity of the people there.

MOONEY: Sure, because you have other artists. The last one I went to that I recall in Tampa, Al Bigley was there—who does the Batman animated stuff. And an awfully nice guy. He’s a younger artist, probably in his early 30s. And it’s kind of gratifying when you meet somebody that’s from a different generation and you hit it off well. You don’t feel strained… just comfortable.

DA: Do you find that it’s gratifying to see so many people who like what you’ve been producing over the course of the last 50 years?

MOONEY: Yeah, it is. It’s usually. “Mr. Mooney, I really love your stuff. I’ve admired it for years.” And you like that. I mean, it doesn’t boost my ego particularly, but I think it’s very kind of them to come up with that. I hope it’s sincere.

Sometimes somebody asks more pertinent questions about the actual technique or style or how this was done.

Today I had somebody come up and Snow Doubt About It! he had a page of Thor there, and I had John Romita, John Buscema, and Jim Mooney teamed up with writer/editor Stan Lee in Amazing done a background with all the planets Spider-Man #84 (May 1970). Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] in the universe, and I had stippled it.

I had spattered it. I had used a scalpel or matte knife to cut the different little intersections in there. And he was asking me how I did it. And I thought, well, this guy is interested and I wish I could really tell him how, but I’ve forgotten. but I realized that I was going to need more time. I’d spent all these It was totally ad lib. years doing comics, and watercolor today is a very sophisticated type of medium. I mean, there are many good watercolors out there.

DA: You like what you do and you had fun doing it.

I got the impression that, much as I liked it, I was going to have to MOONEY: Yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. I mean, I’ve always been a craft put in quite a few more years before I might even try to apply to the dilettante. Anything that comes along in crafts that I like, I’ve got to American Watercolor Society. try it. I’ve been into stained glass painting, tile pottery, when I really We were close to the black area and I had some really great essentially had some time when I retired, just before I was assigned models. I had a black minister who was just magnificent, and to the Superboy TV series. It took about two years to work with another guy I met who was a guitar player. I have a shot of him watercolor, which I’d always wanted to do. I enjoyed it immensely,

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Jim Mooney Discusses His High-Profile Work At Marvel & DC

Classy Reunion Talk about a high-scale homecoming! Jim Mooney drew this undated panorama depicting himself with characters he had drawn for DC, Marvel, and several other companies over the decades—and he drew in the bound volumes on the shelves in the background just to make certain he didn’t forget anybody. Thanks to Shaun Clancy. [DC characters TM & © DC Comics; Marvel characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art either TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders, or © Estate of Jim Mooney.]

and a little girl. It was really just great. She was sitting there, very morose, and she was playing with her hair, and I thought, I know I’m not going to get her to pose, but I took a shot of it. That’s the greatest, because you can get so much color in that skin. You can work color in various areas. You get a little purple here, a little red there, and sometimes even a shade of green. It’s magnificent.

They’re magnificent to paint.

DA: When is the show?

MOONEY: I don’t have enough for a one-man show.

DA: If you had to sum up your career in a sentence, what would it be?

MOONEY: Sometimes: “Why?”

STAN LEE’s Dinner With ALAIN RESNAIS

53

The Writer/Co-Creator Of Fantastic Four Meets The Director of Hiroshima Mon Amour

by Sean Howe

Our Colorful Cast (Left:) Stan, wife Joan, & daughter Joanie (now J.C.) Lee circa 1970 at their home in Hewlett Harbor, Long Island, NY. From the Sept. 9, 2007, edition of The New York Times Real Estate Magazine. [Photo TM & © Estate of Stan & Joan Lee.] (Right:) French film director Alain Resnais, around the time these comments were taped.

And, in the center: the cover of Sean Howe’s 2012 comics history Marvel Comics: The Untold Story, published by Harper. [cover © the respective copyright holders.]

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: While reading Sean Howe’s groundbreaking and unauthorized 2012 comics history Marvel Comics: The Untold Story, I was intrigued to encounter brief quotations from a tape recording Stan Lee had apparently made on May 14, 1969, of himself, his wife and daughter, and renowned French “New Wave” film director Alain Resnais.

Of course, I knew that, around mid-1971, I had wound up writing the first four issues of The Amazing Spider-Man not scripted by Stan… solely because Stan had taken four months off from scribing comics in order to write a speculative screenplay with Resnais, who was then residing temporarily in Manhattan. I met Resnais myself that year, lunching with him once (at his invitation) at a Chinese restaurant near Marvel… and dining one evening, along with my wife Jeanie, with Alain and his first wife at the apartment they were subletting from the novelist Vladimir Nabokov (or was it the novelist’s brother’s place? One or the other). But I had no memory of Alain having dropped by the Marvel offices two years earlier, though he clearly had. If I met him at that time, it had been only in passing, and I had forgotten it.

assessment of the comicbook industry and of his place in it. This was a side of my boss and mentor that I had only rarely (and barely) glimpsed, and I longed to have a chance to listen to the entire tape.

What interested me about the couple of paragraphs of Lee quotes from that 1969 evening in Howe’s book is Stan’s aggressively negative

Stan Lee met the French filmmaker Alain Resnais in Manhattan in the spring of 1969. The director of Hiroshima Mon

I still haven’t had that opportunity—but, in 2023, Sean Howe wrote a lengthier account of the contents of that tape (to which he had obviously had access) for an online article… and we thank him for allowing us to reprint it below. Needless to say, Sean’s analyses and opinions in the piece are his own. It begins with Stan speaking at the commencement of the tape…. “…Now let’s try it. This is Wednesday, May the 14th, and here in the home of Stan and Joan Lee in New York we are privileged to have as our guest Alain Resnais, world-famous director and cinematographic great, who is just about to make a statement about his study of English as it pertains to Marvel Comics! And now, for all of our fans here and abroad, we present Mr. Alain Resnais!”

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The Writer/Co-Creator Of Fantastic Four Meets The Director Of Hiroshima Mon Amour

Amour and Last Year at Marienbad was a fan of Marvel Comics— passionate enough to buy an English dictionary, so he could understand Lee’s ten-dollar words—and had initiated an epistolary friendship with Lee. When Resnais planned a trip to work on his next film, Lee invited him to dinner at his apartment, which he recorded on tape.

“What type of movie is it?” asks Stan.

Alain says it’s about the Marquis de Sade, and they discuss the relative qualities of recent theatrical adaptations. Stan and Joan were from Manhattan and Newcastle upon Tyne, respectively, the cumulative effect of which is a kind of haute suburban dinner-hosting style.

“Do you like liver?” Joan asks, and Alain says yes, of course.

“Will this be a ‘sexy’ movie?” asks Stan.

Alain does not know, but if it succeeds it will be on the “mysterious side of sexy.”

A doorbell rings; it’s their daughter, Joanie.

“Alain Resnais, dear?” Stan offers.

“My daughter is studying to be an actress,” says Joan.

“I’m finished studying, Mother.”

Stan says she’s just finished at the American Academy of the Dramatic Arts. “She’s an accomplished actress!”

“The Coming Of The Falcon!”

The Gene Colan/John Romita cover of Captain America #117 (Sept. 1969).

Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The French New Wave (Left:) An Italian poster for Resnais’ 1959 film classic Hiroshima Mon Amour.

(Above:) A scene from Resnais’ other best-known film, Last Year at Marienbad (1961). [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Stan Lee’s Dinner With Alain Resnais

Joanie volunteers that she saw one of Alain’s movies at a recent Metropolitan Museum of Art retrospective of his work.

become less free.”

“Does freedom matter to you?” Joan asks. “Are you very much a free individual?”

“I wish I had known I was going to meet you,” says Stan, “I would’ve gone there! Let me know if they want a Marvel Comics Day!” He offers Alain a cigar.

Marvel was a commercial phenomenon by the spring of 1969, and even though it hadn’t yet stormed museum halls, one of its cultural benchmarks was just around the corner. Already shipped to the printers—but not yet on stands—was an issue of Captain America that introduced The Falcon, Marvel’s first African-American super-hero. It was past due, but it was also, in the world of comics, at the vanguard.

55

“I like to do what I like when I like.”

“You’re just the opposite of me,” Stan says.

“I’m not at all free, because I live with these deadlines every day. If I had the time I would be interviewed, and if they wanted me on every TV show, on every radio show, I’d stand on soapboxes in the corner! I would much rather be an actor than a writer.”

The Marquis De Sade The man for whom the term “sadism” was named was the projected subject of a never-made film of Alan Resnais’.

Even Stan Lee’s down-the-middle liberalism required a skillful balancing act when it came to publishing comics: keep the heroes away from Vietnam, don’t endorse angry protests but don’t demonize them, don’t ask too many tough questions. He had tried to keep politics at a distance, but the late 1960s forced him to choose a side, or at least gently nod in that direction. When you’re speaking at colleges, it’s harder to ignore campus strikes. And Lee loved speaking at colleges.

“I’m a very shy extrovert!” pronounces Stan.

Writing made Lee feel lonely, Lee once said, and his wife and daughter had little interest in comics.

Television producer Margaret Loesch, who began working with Lee in the 1980s, once described to me Lee’s melancholic

“They pay a few hundred dollars a lecture,” Lee tells Resnais. “And you don’t have to make a speech—I’ve learned the trick, I do quite a bit of it—you talk for just a couple of minutes, you introduce yourself, or tell a joke, say something to get them laughing, and then… nobody likes to listen to speeches. Nobody in the world likes a speech! So what you do, after you’ve spoken for a minute, you say, now I hate to make speeches, and you hate to listen to them, so let’s have a question-and-answer period.

And they will ask you a million questions, and it’s fun! You don’t know what to expect next, you can’t say anything wrong, any answer you give is interesting, and the hour, the two hours, just goes like”—fingers snap—“that. I’ve done that a few dozen times and each time it’s better.

I wish I could do it more. I don’t have the time… but you get a new perspective on what people want. I’ve learned a lot.”

“But I am on the shy side,” says Alain. “I decided ten years ago that I will always refuse to appear on TV. So if I broke that now, I fear I will

“You Have A Mole On Your Chin!”

Jack “King” Kirby Photo courtesy of the Roz Kirby Estate; supplied by Sean Howe.

Sporting this Jack Kirby/Joe Sinnott cover, The Fantastic Four #89 (Aug. 1969) went on sale around the time Lee and Resnais did their dinner taping session.

Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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The Writer/Co-Creator Of Fantastic Four Meets The Director Of Hiroshima Mon Amour

streak. When I asked her to elaborate, she thought for a few moments, and then said that Lee was concerned about the state of the world, about where society was headed. And then the subject quickly changed.

Joan goes back to the Marquis de Sade movie. “He said that this movie would be mysterious.” Turning to Alain, she says, “I think you like...”

“Magic. That’s why I like The Fantastic Four. It’s so free, and… the art of Kirby, of course….”

“Oh, absolutely!” Stan agrees.

“His machines are….”

“His art is beautiful,” Stan says, just as Joanie excuses herself from the table to walk their dog, Charlie Brown.

“I’m taking my child!” she exclaims.

“We have a new puppy…” Joan tells Alain— (“She’s mine…she loves me,” Joanie interjects.) “…that my husband bought to guard me when we’re on Long Island.”

“We took this apartment,” Stan says, “just to be near my daughter a few days a week. We spend most of our time here in these two rooms.”

“One time,” Joanie says, “I’m not going to come back at all with her.”

Stan Lee didn’t know it, but a month earlier, his longtime collaborator Jack Kirby had also hosted a dinner, in Southern California. The editor of Marvel’s rival, DC Comics, had trekked out to the Kirby home for a Passover dinner. Kirby—who’d created or co-created Captain America, The Fantastic Four, the Hulk, The X-Men, the Black Panther and many more—felt that he was not getting enough credit, and not enough creative control. It all went to Lee. The DC editor floated the idea of Kirby jumping ship and coming over to the other side. Kirby was interested.

“I can’t understand people who read comics!” Lee tells Resnais. “I wouldn’t read them if I had the time and wasn’t in the business. I might look through them and read something good in comics, but I’ve got so many other interests!

“I was just an employee of the publisher, Martin Goodman, and I worked as editor. Everything I wrote I got paid extra for, so I had two incomes: I got my salary and I was writing, so I made a lot of money.

I always made a lot of money, but it didn’t mean anything, because as long as you make money that way, the taxes are very high. The only way you can save money is if you own your own business, and you have capital gains taxes. With me, everything I make, about 60% goes to the government, so I had a lot of pride in knowing that my salary, my writing fees were very high, and I earned probably as much money as anybody

“The Olympics Of Space” Jack Kirby storyboards for an episode of the 1978 Fantastic Four animated series written—Marvel style, what else?—by Roy Thomas. Of course, that series was still nearly a decade in the future when Stan made his comments about Jack and storyboards. Thanks to John Morrow. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Stan Lee’s Dinner With Alain Resnais

around, but I can’t keep any.

“I’m not underpaid. I make a lot, but I can’t keep it, you see. I don’t have any ownership. Everything I’ve written, nothing belongs to me.

If somebody wants to reprint one of the stories, they pay the company, they don’t pay me. It went on this way for about 29 years. Last year my publisher sold the whole company to one of these big conglomerates. I had to sign a contract… saying that I would work there for five years. The contract could be broken and I can break it at anytime, but there’s a clause in the contract that if I leave I must not do any comics work for one year.

All the time that I worked there, I never thought of leaving because I was loyal to this publisher, but now it is owned by another company, and I figure, for the first time, at my age, I feel it’s time I started thinking of other things.”

57

“You must feel obliged to continue,” Resnais says. “You must have friends….”

(Joan brings out olives. “Very salty!” she warns.) “…John Buscema, Gene Colan… if you leave them, they would be sad?”

“I’ve thought about that,” says Stan. “The thing is, these men are so talented that I think if I do movie work, I could take them with me. Jack is great at set design and things like that. And they’re good at storyboards.

They could even stay where they are and do well, but I would like to take them. In fact, Jack is living in California….” Lee shows off some of Kirby’s recent work, and the tape recording ends.

Stan Strips!

One of Stan’s early dreams—like that of so many people in comicbooks—was to get to handle a newspaper comic strip. Stan had several of those at various times, including The Virtue of Vera Valiant (above) with artist Frank Springer in 1976, in the days when the soap-opera parody Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman was briefly a hit show… but neither it nor a handful of other strips ever lasted long… …until he hooked up with John Romita on Amazing Spider-Man. Below is a memorable daily for Oct. 29, 1977. [Vera Valiant TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders; Spider-Man strip TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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The Writer/Co-Creator Of Fantastic Four Meets The Director Of Hiroshima Mon Amour

All Winners—Later Editions!

(Above:) Stan with other top comics figures—all recipients of Eisner Hall of Fame awards at the 1975 San Diego Comic-Con. (L. to r.:) Gil Kane, Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Jim Steranko, Will Eisner, and Jerry Siegel—and we think that may be Joe Shuster half-seen at left. Stan was in stellar company, as far as we’re concerned, long before he palled around with Robert Downey, Jr., and crew! Thanks to Mike Mikulovsky.

(Right:) Stan was always happy to hang around with the Hollywood crowd as well. Here he smiles for the camera with Paul Rudd, at the 2015 premiere of Ant-Man—the day after he (Stan) had been rushed to CedarsSinai Hospital in a health emergency. Stan was a trooper right to the end!

From The Daily Mail, with thanks to Dan Hagen. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

(Top right:) The original Ant-Man to the rescue, as per Tales to Astonish #37 (Nov. 1962), courtesy of writers Stan Lee & Larry Lieber and artists Jack Kirby & Dick Ayers. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

In March 1970, Kirby quit Marvel Comics and began working at DC. In January 1971, at a closed comics industry event, Lee appeared on a panel with other professionals. In an odd twist, he played the role of the skeptic: “I would say that the comicbook market is the worst market that there is on the face of the Earth for creative talent, and the reasons are numberless and legion,’ Lee said. “I have had many talented people ask me how to get into the comicbook business.

If they were talented enough, the first answer I would give them is, ‘Why would you want to get into the comicbook business?’ Because even if you succeed, even if you reach what might be considered the pinnacle of success in comics, you will be less successful, less secure, and less effective than if you are just an average practitioner of your art in television, radio, movies, or what have you. It is a business in which the creator, as was mentioned before, owns nothing of his creation. The publisher owns it.”

Months later, Lee took a sabbatical from comics, for the first time in thirty years, to work with Resnais on a film called The Monster Maker, about a frustrated schlock-

movie producer who tries to redeem himself by speaking out against societal ills.

The film was never made. Lee returned from his sabbatical, and in 1972 was named President of Marvel Comics.

In 2015, Stan Lee was asked if the comics industry had treated its creators fairly. “I don’t know,” he said. “I haven’t had reason to think about it that much.”

Sean Howe is the author of the Eisner Award-winning Marvel Comics: The Untold Story, a New York Times bestseller, and Agents of Chaos: Thomas King Forcade, High Times, and the Paranoid End of the 1970s. He lives in upstate New York.

59

(Above:) A “Bentley” page from Pep Comics #38 (April 1943). [© MLJ]

60

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Green Grow The Lanterns (Above:) The cover of Green Lantern #40 (Oct. 1965), penciled

by Kane and inked by Murphy Anderson. [TM & © DC Comics.]

With A Few Bugs Left In His Style (Above:) An early effort from Holyoke’s Blue Beetle #25 (May 1943). Art by the future Gil Kane; scripter unknown.

[Blue Beetle TM & © DC Comics.]

Y

We All Have To Start Somewhere (Part 2) Gil Kane

ep! The mystery artist on our intro page is none other than the dynamic Gil Kane (in this case, in conjunction with artist Pen Shumaker). It’s hard to believe that the guy who also drew the lackluster Blue Beetle page above was the same guy who, decades later, illustrated stunning covers like the one from Green Lantern #40, featuring both the Gold and Silver Age Green Lanterns. But it’s true!

Humble Beginnings!

The cartoonist we’re familiar with began when Jewish, Latvian-born Eli Katz transformed into dashing Gil Kane (April 6, 1926 – January 31, 2000). Kane’s career spanned the 1940s to the 1990s and virtually every major comics company and character.

“The Pluck Of The Irish”??

His early work was nothing to (Right:) “Phil Regan” splash page write home about. However from Juke Box Comics #2 (May 1948). (as we’ve learned in previous This tale was drawn by a young installments of this series), we Katz/Kane. [TM & © the respective all have to start somewhere! trademark & copyright holders.]

We All Have To Start Somewhere (Part 2)

His Barkeley Was Worse Than His Bentley (Above:) Just joking, above, folks—actually, this was a nice step along the road to the rest of Gil’s stellar career. Seen here are samples of Katz ’N’ Jammers from the Camp Barkeley News for February 9, 16, & 23, 1945). The title of the strip was a play on Kane’s birth name, Katz. [© Estate of Gil Kane.]

In Katz’s case, he experimented with a few nom de plumes— including Scott Edward, Gil Stack, Stack Til, Stacktil, and Pen Star—before sticking with “Gil Kane.” However, the “Phil Regan” page from Famous Funnies’ Jukebox #2 is signed with his birth name.

Kane’s early art is incredibly crude, judging by his first published story, drawn for MLJ’s Pep Comics #38 (April 1943), when he was but a lad of seventeen. (See our splash page.) A year earlier, at sixteen, he’d dropped out of high school and begun inking panel borders at MLJ (later known as Archie Publications). Kane, the high

Katz Pajamas (Right:) Eli Katz in the Army, circa 1945. Part of the young artist’s transformation into “Gil Kane” included getting a nose job. He’s seen here with the original version, not that it was exactly Durante-calibre!

We don’t know who the hero is that he came up with, but he looks pretty proud of it!

61

62

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

school dropout, then embarked on a course of self-education, eventually becoming one of comics’ most knowledgeable and erudite creators.

Zip It Up! (Right:) Kane’s first byline! MLJ’s Zip Comics #14 (May 1941) featured Kane inks over Carl Hubbell’s pencils. [TM & © Archie Comics Publications.]

In a 1996 Comics Journal interview, Kane recalled: “From the time I was 15, I was going up to the comics offices.... My first job came the next year at 16. During my summer vacation [between years of high school], I went up and got a job working at MLJ in 1942…. I was in my last year in high school [when I left]. I was 16 and I’d already started my last year, but I’d already gotten my job the summer before at MLJ, so I didn’t want to give up my job. I quit school in the last grade.”

Three weeks later, Kane was fired, then worked in production, “putting borders on pages. The letterers would only put in the lettering, not the balloons, so I would put in the borders, balloons, and I’d finish up artwork—whatever had to be done on a lesser scale.” Within “a couple of days” of being let go, “I got a job with Jack Binder’s agency. Jack Binder had a loft on Fifth Avenue and it

Shield Me From This Puppeteer!

(Above:) Actually, there never was a The Shield and Dusty title from MLJ— but for a few years that first patriotically garbed super-hero did share half a mag with another of the company’s early stars, as seen by this Kane splash page from Shield-Wizard Comics #11 (Summer 1943). Gil drew this one under his “Stack Til” pseudonym. Scripter unknown. Although the artist says he drew one complete issue’s worth of “Shield” stories, this is the only one we could locate in the Grand Comics Database. Maybe the other work is unidentified? [TM & © Archie Comics Publications.]

A Vicious ’Cycle Young Allies #11 (Spring 1944) and its story “Spawn of Death” featured Kane’s first Timely (future Marvel) work. Gil was one of two inkers credited on this story. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

We All Have To Start Somewhere (Part 2)

63

just looked like an internment camp. There must have been 50 or 60 guys up there, all at drawing tables. You had to account for the paper that you took.” Kane began penciling professionally there, but, “They weren’t terribly happy with what I was doing. But when I was rehired by MLJ three weeks later, not only did they put me back into the production department and give me an increase, they gave me my first job, which was ‘Inspector Bentley of Scotland Yard’ in Pep Comics, and then they gave me a whole issue of The Shield and Dusty, one of their leading books”

You’re In The Army Now! Tristan Lapoussiere unearthed these Katz ‘n’ Jammers strips, from the weekly Army newspaper Camp Barkeley News (Feb. 9, 16, and 23, 1945). The title is a play on Kane’s birth name and, likely, Rudolph Dirks’ Katzenjammer Kids comic strip.

In 1944 Kane joined the Army and served in the World War II Pacific theatre of operations. Nineteen months later, he returned in December 1945. All-American Publications editor Sheldon Mayer hired him in 1947, for a stint that lasted six months. He contributed again to the “Sandman” feature in Adventure Comics and, as penciler Gil Stack with inker Phil Martel, to the “Wildcat” feature in Sensation Comics. Around this time, he said, he “worked with director Garson Kanin when he was involved in TV,” drawing storyboards.

The Sands Of Time Kane’s first job for DC Comics was ghosting “Sandman” for Joe Simon & Jack Kirby while they were in the armed services, or at least stockingpiling material in preparation for their looming induction. Fifty years later, Jack Kirby met Gil Kane again at the 1993 San Diego Comic-Con. Marvel editor Jim Salicrup is in the middle.

No If, Sands, Or Buts

The Odds Are Stacked Against Them

(Above:) The credits may read “Simon & Kirby,” but Gil’s first job at DC was ghosting this “Sandman” yarn for Adventure Comics #91 (May 1944). [TM & © DC Comics.]

(Above:) “Gil Stack” and “Phil Martel” contributed this story to Sensation Comics #70 (Oct. 1947). In other words, Gil Kane penciled and inked all seven pages. Scripter unknown. [© DC Comics.]

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Star Hawks In Their Eyes (Left:) This illustration for the Gil Kane/Ron Goulart Star Hawks comic strip appeared on the cover of the 2003 hardcover collection. [TM & © Newspaper Enterprise Association, Inc.,or successors in interest.]

In 1949, Kane began working with editor Julius Schwartz at National Comics, the future DC Comics.

Kane drew stories for several DC series in the 1950s, including All Star Western and The Adventures of Rex the Wonder Dog.

Spider, Spider, Burning Bright...

(Above:) Beginning in 1969, Gil Kane did an increasing amount of his work for Marvel Comics. His first cover for Amazing Spider-Man was done for issue #90 (Nov. 1970). [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

So how did young Eli improve exponentially?

Kane stated in Hermes Press’ 2002 book, Gil Kane Art and Interviews: “I was never satisfied with the quality of my work in the 1950s and kept at it, developing my craft. I practiced every day, I kept going back to Bridgman [anatomy books].”

Gil later went on to produce brilliant work for virtually every publisher, but is perhaps best remembered for co-creating the Silver Age Atom and Green Lantern, as well as for a lengthy major stint on Amazing Spider-Man at Marvel. Considering his humble beginnings, Gil Kane serves as an inspiration to all young artists of modest talent!

Till next time…

Gil Kane himself!

Tim Sale

65

In Memoriam

(May 1, 1956 – June 16, 2022)

From MythAdventures To Batman: The Long Halloween To Heroes

by Stephan A. Friedt

T

im Sale was born in Ithaca, New York, on May 1, 1956. When he was six, his dad, Roger, and his mom, Dorothy, moved the family to Seattle, Washington. Tim would grow up there, attending two years at the University of Washington. Then, deciding he needed artistic training elsewhere, he moved to New York to attend the School of Visual Arts but did not graduate. He completed his apprenticeship at John Buscema’s comics workshop, then moved back to Seattle to put his training to work.

Tim Sale and his cover for Batman: The Long Halloween #9 (Aug. 1997); colors by Gregory Wright. The photo is courtesy of the “Comic Book Historians” website. [Cover TM & © DC Comics.]

Tim would begin by inking Phil Foglio on MythAdventures and penciling and inking stories and covers for Thieves’ World in 1985 for the Donning Company. He spent a few years in the late ’80s providing covers and stories for Comico titles Amazon and Grendel.

The 1990s would find him teaming up with writer Jeph Loeb for the reboot of DC’s Challengers of the Unknown and starting his most successful and longest team-up. He became acquainted with Batman through his work on Legends of the Dark Knight, which in turn resulted in his collaboration with Jeph Loeb again on Batman: The Long Halloween (1996-1997). Their work on that mini-series, with Tim’s dark, shadowy images, would be credited as influential on film directors Christopher Nolan and Matt Reeves for their versions of Batman on film, as well as an inspiration for Christian Bale’s portrayal of the hero.

Tim’s style versatility would show when he would team up with Jeph again on another icon for the mini-series Superman for all Seasons. This time, his idyllic shots of quiet moments in Superman’s life would have a Norman Rockwell feel, and garnered him a 1999 Eisner Award, as well as other awards. George Gene Gustines, in his New York Times obituary for Tim (6/17/2022) quoted Jeph Loeb from a phone interview: “Tim was much more interested in capturing the small moments. When people traditionally think about comics, it is the biff-bam-boom. He could draw the biff-bam-boom, but it was the quiet moments that made it extraordinary.”

Tim would also grace the pages of books for Dark Horse, Image, Cross Plains, and Marvel during the 1990s. His relationship with Loeb led to his artwork being used in the cult TV super-hero series Heroes (2006-2010), of which Loeb was an executive producer.

All the artwork that foretold the future (one of the characters’ superpower was to paint what was going to happen) was Tim’s.

Tim passed from kidney failure after a brief hospital stay in Seattle on June 16th, 2022.

Alter Ego regrets that, due to a misfiling, the publication of Tim Sale’s obit/tribute was delayed.

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67

In Memoriam

Dan Green

(Nov. 26, 1952 – Aug. 19, 2023)

“His Worlds Looked Lush And Real”

D

by Stephan A. Friedt

an Green was born on November 26, 1952, in Detroit, Michigan. He began working in comics in the early 1970s, initially as an inker, and often provided the artwork over simple breakdowns by a list of some of the best comic artists of the era.

Dan Green Besides his exquisite inking of numerous Marvel, DC, and other comics covers, Dan painted the cover of the one below left: Marvel’s Amazing High Adventures #5 (Dec. 1986). Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Walt Simonson reflected on Facebook (8/21/2023): Dan was one of the first guys I met on the day I showed up at DC in August 1972 to try to get into comics professionally….

Four young hotshots were sitting around a table in the DC coffee room when I walked in: Howard Chaykin, Michael Kaluta, and Bernie Wrightson… and the fourth was either Alan Weiss or Dan…. Dan thought it was him. So be it….

Dan was a wonderful artist who did a lot of inking in comics, including one of my X-Factor jobs. He had a beautiful, delicate line that complemented my own line work, and I’ve always been delighted he inked one of my stories. He also had a nice hand at painting, which I felt he did far too little of…. I am immensely saddened by his death. Thank you for the beautiful work and for the friendship, pal. Godspeed.

Paul Levitz noted on Facebook (8/22/2023): Seeing reports online of the passing of Dan Green, mostly familiar to comics readers as an inker, including of many X-Men tales and a few of my “Legion of Super-Heroes” stories. I recall him more fondly as one of the early-’70s wave of youngsters bringing original styles to DC when Carmine Infantino was encouraging experimentation and editors Joe Orlando, Dick Giordano, and Archie Goodwin were handing out short stories to the then-kids.

Dan was one of the fresh voices, well suited, I thought, to fantasy work. His worlds looked lush and real, even if unreal events (and beings) filled them. The economic opportunities were better for him as an inker, particularly on the high-royalty-earning “X” books, and so he concentrated there.

We never had much direct contact, so I have no tales to tell… just respect for his consistent fine work and professionalism which I heard about from others who relied on him. My sympathies to his loved ones and good friends in the comics tribe.

Dan lived in the Hudson Valley in upstate New York and passed in August of 2023 at the age of 70.

68

In Memoriam

Mike Machlan (March 1950 – April 1, 2023)

“Big Brother From Another Mother”

by Stephan A. Friedt

M

ike Machlan passed away unexpectedly on April 1, 2023, from complications due to a stroke he suffered on March 30. He was a longtime comicbook artist, known for his career as an inker, particularly on series like DC’s All-Star Squadron (where he inked the pencils of his lifelong friend, Jerry Ordway), Infinity, Inc. (a series he co-created with Ordway and Roy & Dann Thomas) and Justice Society of America (inking Mike Parobeck).

He was also known for Marvel’s West Coast Avengers (inking Al Milgrom & John Byrne) and Amazing Spider-Man (inking Erik Larsen).

Mike Machlan and his wife Eve—as well as the cover of Infinity, Inc. #2 (May 1984), penciled by Mike and inked by Jerry Ordway.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

In an e-mail conversation I had with him, Jerry Ordway elaborated: I met Mike Machlan because of my early-1975 fanzine, Okay Comix. I took some copies to sell on consignment at a local Milwaukee store called “The Good Old Days,” which also sold back issues of comicbooks. Mike bought a copy, and we got together for the first time at the store a few weeks later. We shared a love of Marvel Comics and started collaborating, him penciling and me inking, or me penciling and him inking. I think we both learned a bit from each other, and we had fun. We drove to New York City in 1977, trying but failing to break into comics.

A few years later, in 1980, I got my first DC work via a DC talent search conducted by Joe Orlando, at the Chicago Comic-con. I helped Mike get his break, inking my pencils on All-Star Squadron. We designed and co-created Infinity, Inc. with Roy Thomas, and at one point shared a studio. Mike and I had a lot of laughs, and a fair number of beers! We shared a love of comics, old movies, and music. Like many comic folks, he was a musician in his youth, and always drummed along to any Eagles or Steely Dan song that came up on the bar’s jukebox. While we lost touch in recent years, I will always cherish the times we hung out together, and the times we worked on comicbooks together. He was kind of my “big brother from another mother,” even though I had two big brothers already. Rest in peace, friend.

NOTE: A longer feature on Mike Machlan will appear in a future issue of Alter Ego. Sources and further reading: https://www.cbr.com/mike-machlan-infinity-inc-obituary/ https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Mike_ Machlan https://www.marvel.com/comics/creators/2076/mike_machlan https://www.comicartfans.com/comic-artists/mike_machlan.asp

ALTER EGO #190

ALTER EGO #191

ALTER EGO #192

KIRBY COLLECTOR #92

KIRBY COLLECTOR #93

MITCH MAGLIO examines vintage jungle comics heroes (Kaänga, Ka-Zar, Sheena, Rulah, Jo-Jo/Congo King, Thun’da, Tarzan) with art by LOU FINE, WILL EISNER, FRANK FRAZETTA, MATT BAKER, BOB POWELL, ALEX SCHOMBURG, and others! Plus: the comicbook career of real-life jungle explorers MARTIN AND OSA JOHNSON, FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and more!

#191 is an FCA (FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA) issue! Documenting the influence of MAC RABOY’s Captain Marvel Jr. on the life, career, and look of ELVIS PRESLEY during his stellar career, from the 1950s through the 1970s! Plus: Captain Marvel co-creator BILL PARKER’s complete testimony from the DC vs. Fawcett lawsuit, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and other surprises!

MARK CARLSON-GHOST documents the mid-1950s super-hero revival featuring The Human Torch, Captain America, SubMariner, Fighting American, The Avenger, Phantom Lady, The Flame, Captain Flash, and others—with art by JOHN ROMITA, JOHN BUSCEMA, BILL EVERETT, SIMON & KIRBY, MIKE SEKOWSKY, MORT MESKIN, BOB POWELL, and other greats! Plus FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and more!

IN THE NEWS! Rare newspaper interviews with Jack, 1973 San Diego panel with Jack and NEAL ADAMS discussing DC’s coloring, strips Kirby ghosted for others, unused strip concepts, collages, a never-reprinted Headline Comics tale, Jimmy Olsen pencil art gallery, 2024 WonderCon Kirby panel (featuring DAVID SCHWARTZ, GLEN GOLD, and RAY WYMAN), and more!

Cover inked by DAVID REDDICK!

SUPPORTING PLAYERS! Almost-major villains like Kanto the Assassin and Diablo, Rodney Rumpkin, Mr. Little, the Falcon, Randu Singh, and others take center stage!

Plus: 1970 interview with Jack by SHEL DORF, MARK EVANIER’s 2024 Kirby Tribute Panel from Comic-Con, neverreprinted Simon & Kirby story, pencil art gallery, and more! Unused Mister Miracle cover inked by MIKE ROYER!

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BACK ISSUE #155

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COMIC BOOK CREATOR #36 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #37

THIS ISSUE IS HAUNTED! House of Mystery, House of Secrets, Unexpected, Marvel’s failed horror anthologies, Haunted Tank, Eerie Publications, House II adaptation, Elvira’s House of Mystery, and more wth NEAL ADAMS, MIKE W. BARR, DICK GIORDANO, SAM GLANZMAN, ROBERT KANIGHER, JOE ORLANDO, STERANKO, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, and others. Unused cover by GARCÍA-LÓPEZ & WRIGHTSON.

BRONZE AGE GRAPHIC NOVELS! 1980s GNs from Marvel, DC, and First Comics, Conan GNs, and DC’s Sci-Fi GN series!

With BRENT ANDERSON, JOHN BYRNE, HOWARD CHAYKIN, CHRIS CLAREMONT, JOSÉ LUIS GARCÍA-LÓPEZ, JACK KIRBY, DON MCGREGOR, BOB McLEOD, BILL SIENKIEWICZ, JIM STARLIN, ROY THOMAS, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, and more. WRIGHTSON cover.

KEITH GIFFEN TRIBUTE ISSUE! Starstudded celebration of the prolific writer/ artist of Legion of Super-Heroes, Rocket Raccoon, Guardians of the Galaxy, Justice League, Lobo, Blue Beetle, and others!

With CARY BATES, TOM BIERBAUM, J.M. DeMATTEIS, DAN DIDIO, ROBERT LOREN FLEMING, CULLY HAMNER, SCOTT KOBLISH, PAUL LEVITZ, KEVIN MAGUIRE, BART SEARS, MARK WAID, and more!

TOM PALMER retrospective, career-spanning interview, and tributes compiled by GREG BIGA. LEE MARRS chats about assisting on Little Orphan Annie, work for DC’s Plop! and underground Pudge, Girl Blimp!

The start of a multi-part look at the life and career of DAN DIDIO, part two of our ARNOLD DRAKE interview, public service comics produced by students at the CENTER FOR CARTOON STUDIES, & more!

STEVE ENGLEHART is spotlighted in a career-spanning interview, former DC Comics’ romance editor BARBARA FRIEDLANDER redeems the late DC editor JACK MILLER, DAN DIDIO discusses going from DC exec to co-publisher, we conclude our 100th birthday celebration for ARNOLD DRAKE, take a look at the 1970s underground comix oddity THE FUNNY PAGES, and more, including HEMBECK!

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RETROFAN #35

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Saturday morning super-hero Space Ghost, plus The Beatles, The Jackson 5ive, and other real rockers in animation! Also: The Addams Family’s JOHN ASTIN, Mighty Isis co-stars JOANNA PANG and BRIAN CUTLER, TV’s The Name of the Game, on the set of Evil Dead II, classic coffee ads, and more! With ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, MARK VOGER & MICHAEL EURY.

Feel the G-Force of Eighties sci-fi toon BATTLE OF THE PLANETS! Plus: The Girl from U.N.C.L.E.’s STEFANIE POWERS, CHUCK CONNORS, The Oddball World of SCTV, Rankin/Bass’ stop-motion Santa Claus Is Coming to Town, TV’s Greatest Catchphrases, one-season TV shows, and more! With ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, MARK VOGER & MICHAEL EURY.

The Jetsons, Freaky Frankensteins, Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling’s HOLLYWOOD, the Archies and other Saturday morning rockers, Star Wars copycats, Build Your Own Adventure books, crazy kitchen gadgets, toymaker MARVIN GLASS, and more! Featuring columns by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK VOGER. Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

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AMERICAN COMIC BOOK CHRONICLES: 1945-49

Covers the aftermath of WWII, when comics shifted from super-heroes to crime, romance, and western comics, BILL GAINES plotted a new course for EC Comics, and SIEGEL & SHUSTER sued for rights to Superman! By RICHARD ARNDT, KURT MITCHELL, and KEITH DALLAS. (288-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $49.95 (Digital Edition) $15.99 ISBN: 978-1-60549-099-1

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71

From “Shazam!”

To“¡Sarka!”

The Curious Influence Of Fawcett’s Super-heroes In Spain During Franco’s Dictatorship

by Ignacio Fernández Sarasola, Ph. D. Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

Censorship Of U.S. Comics In Spain

A

merican comics arrived in Spain during the Second Republic (1931-1936) with the publication of comic strips such as Flash Gordon, Mandrake the Magician, Tarzan, The Phantom, Prince Valiant, Tim Tyler’s Luck, Jungle Jim, and Terry and the Pirates.

Many of them came from Italy, through the publisher Lottario Vecchi, who had acquired the publishing license from King Features Syndicate. When Mussolini vetoed the publication of American comics in Italy, Vecchi saw his only option as publishing them in republican and democratic Spain, where there were not the same restrictions as in his country.

But all that changed with the coup d’état of General Francisco Franco (1936), the outbreak of the Civil War (1936-1939),

The World’s Mightiest Mortal(s) (Above:) Captain Marvel plays Sancho Panza— squire to Spain’s greatest hero, Don Quixote! From El Capitán Marvel #54, Hispano Americana de Ediciones, 1950.

(Left:) Superfuerte (“Super Strong”) is an alien with powers very similar to Captain Marvel’s, but he’s actually a robot who’s referred to as “the plastic man,” as per the translation of this cover title. From an issue of Superfuerte (Ferma, 1958). Writers & artists of both Spanish series unknown. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; Superfuerte splash TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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From “Shazam!” to “¡Sarka”

and the very long military dictatorship that followed the war (1939-1975). From the beginning, the new regime imposed strict censorship on publications. Nevertheless, comicbooks produced in Spain (called tebeos) enjoyed a certain degree of freedom until 1952, when censors came down hard to make certain that the stories contained no attacks against the government or religion, which were their main concerns.

Meanwhile, American comics had become increasingly difficult to publish: censors scrutinized them carefully, fearing that they might contain sexually explicit drawings or democratic propaganda. In an effort to ease censorship, publishers often “Spanishized” the names of characters (“Flas” instead of “Flash Gordon”). However, this did not prevent American comics from being published less frequently and lose readership to Spanish comics which contained very different types of heroes. Although there were many imitators of Tarzan and Flash Gordon in Spain, the most common genres were Westerns, pirate adventures, and historical comics, especially those set in the Middle Ages and classical Rome.

The situation in 1952 intensified: several scholars of children’s literature, publishers of magazines sympathetic to the dictatorship, and clergymen who held institutional positions began to ask the government to pay close attention to the comics, claiming that the doses of eroticism, violence, and “pseudo-science” they contained were harmful to children, besides being contrary to the dogmas of Catholicism (which was one of the ideological bases of the dictatorship).

That year, a Children’s Press Advisory Board was created, modeled on a body instituted in France in 1949, and the first “Children’s Press Regulations” were drafted. They defined the content that comics should contain, with prohibitions and obligations. If these restrictions were violated, the consequences could be many and varied: the publication of the issue could be banned, the magazine could be suspended for good, or the publisher could be banned from publishing other magazines.

protagonist’s life should not be shown as a succession of constant dangers. Since 1967, it was forbidden to show morally reprehensible behavior (violence, terror, sadism) and immoral feelings (hatred, envy, resentment, mistrust, revenge). And above all, a restriction was imposed that particularly impacted super-hero comics: fantastic narratives “imbued with scientific superstition” were to be eliminated. Interestingly, there was no problem with stories about fairies, genies, wizards, angels, archangels, and cherubs. But stories about super-heroes, interstellar travel, or alien races were not allowed.

In addition to these content restrictions, which applied to all comicbooks, imported comics were subject to even greater restrictions: Spanish magazines could contain a maximum of 25% foreign material; moreover, the Advisory Council could prohibit the import and distribution of any foreign work if it considered that its “spirit” was contrary to public order or could become a religious, moral, or patriotic risk for children.

With this panorama, is it any wonder that U.S. comics had become increasingly rare in Spain?

American Super-Heroes In Spain In light of the above, it should come as no surprise that the presence of American super-heroes in Spain was rather scarce until the mid-1970s, when the opening to Western democracies became unstoppable and the Mexican publisher Novaro arrived in Spain, finally introducing the Spanish people to DC and Fawcett characters they had not known before.

However, this did not prevent several attempts to introduce American super-heroes in Spain before that date. Superman first

Although it may seem that there was some similarity to the Comics Code Authority, this is not the case. The Advisory Board was a state body, dependent on the Franco government, and the rules that determined the content of comicbooks were authentic legal rules. It was therefore not a system of self-censorship devised by the industry itself, as was the case with the CCA, but an imposition by the government that established an authentic system of institutional censorship.

Some of the bans on the content of comics in Spain affected the super-hero genre: for example, no pagan elements or references to secularism were allowed; it was forbidden to show “aggressiveness,” and the

Look! Up In The Spanish Sky! Ciclon El Superhombre was the first Superman comicbook published in Spain. In order to mislead the censors so they would not assume he was an American character, he was given different costume colors and his name was changed to the Spanish equivalent of “Cyclone.” The cover of Ciclón El Superhombre #1, Hispano Americana, 1941.)

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

73

saw the light of day in Spain under the name Ciclón, El Superhombre (17 issues released by Hispano Americana de Ediciones, 1940-1941), under which it was also published in Italy by Lottario Vecchi, where the Spanish edition came from.

The Man of Steel would not be seen in Spain again until 1960, when publisher Dolar produced 18 issues wherein the character was given his original name—Superman.

The circumstances with Batman were different. The little that was published of him in Spain before the ’70s came from his newspaper comic strips, not from comicbook adventures. But the Caped Crusader’s life was even more ephemeral than Superman’s.

Only one issue was published under the name Alas de Acero (“Wings of Steel”) in Spanish to hide its foreign origin (Hispano Americana de Ediciones, 1947). The following year, “¡SHAZAM!” 13 issues were published under a new title: Robin y el murciélago (i.e.

The first (of 88) issues of Hispano Americana de Eciciones’ El Capitán Marvel (1947).

[Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; Nyoka the Jungle Girl TM & © Bill Black.]

“Robin and the Bat,” Publicaciones Ibero-Americanas, 1948). Again, the original name was hidden to disguise were teenagers who took on adult roles… like Cuto, who—despite the fact that it was American, and Robin became the protagonist, being a boy—served in the army, or El Cachorro, whose youth did which was very appreciated in Spain, where many of the heroes of not prevent him from becoming a famous pirate.

Spanish comics were young adventurers.

Fawcett’s heroes had received better treatment and success in Spain than the DC characters. In 1943, Editorial Valenciana published two issues of Captain Marvel (as Capitán Maravillas), adapting Republic Pictures’ 1941 move serial The Adventures of Captain Marvel. The comicbook was written by Spanish authors without regard to copyright issues, and both the script and the art (by novice artist Antonio Hernández Palacios) were so confusing that anyone who had not seen the film would probably not have understood the plot.

Subsequently, Capitán Marvel was published by Hispano Americana de Ediciones in 1947 (88 issues), 1949 (20 issues), and 1960-1962 (38 issues), with stories taken from Captain Marvel Adventures. Some of these issues also included Mary Marvel and Captain Marvel Jr. stories, introducing them to the Spanish readers.

Mary and Junior also had their own collections, albeit very short ones: Mary Marvel (Hispano Americana, 1948, 7 issues) and El Pequeño Capitán Marvel (Hispano Americana, 1948, 4 issues).

Capitán Marvel’s first issue published in Spain in 1947 contained an introduction intended to explain to young Spaniards what they would find in the book’s pages: “The youth of the world admire Captain Marvel… the very modern episodes of Captain Marvel, dynamic and saturated with a fine comedy, are the exponent of a new direction in the style of adventure magazines.”

Why was the Marvel Family more popular in Spain than other American super-heroes like Superman or Batman? Possibly because their stories had a more humorous and light-hearted tone, which allowed the censors to see them with more lenient eyes. Spanish readers also liked the fact that the hero was a boy, Billy Batson, who could become superhuman; many of Spain’s comicbook heroes

Captain Marvel & The First Supermen Of Spanish Comics

Unlike in the United States, Canada, or Australia, finding super-heroes in Spanish comics is a rather complicated task. The few that could be seen during the Franco dictatorship are scattered in children’s and youth magazines, or in comicbooks that had a short life span. But there are some, and quite curious ones.

Most of them were imitations of The Phantom, such as Capitán Misterio (1945), Espíritu de la Jungla (1962), El Hombre de la Estrella (1947), Silver Roy (1947), El Rey de la Jungla (1948), or El Duende (1961). There were also some Spanish magicians inspired

by Mandrake, such as Sir Black (1946), El Murciélago (1943), and even a female version, Marga (1953). But then there are some strange coincidences with American super-heroes. For example, Spain had its own Namor/Aquaman-type-hero: Tombuctú (1948), an underwater prince who talked to the creatures of the sea. But unlike Aquaman and the Sub-Mariner, he was an oceanic version of Tarzan. Spain also had a Spider-Man (“El Hombre Araña”, 1944), an adventurer who found a resin that allowed him to stick to walls.

There was also an Electro (“El Hombre Eléctrico,” 1947), several Catmen (“Pantera Gris,” 1947, and “Pantera Negra,” 1947), a couple of Hawkmen (“Murciélago Humano,” 1945, and “Águila Negra”, 1948), an Iron Man (“Rock Robot,” 1957), a Cyborg (“Erik, el Enigma Viviente,” 1948), and a Hercules (“Coloso,” 1960).

Imitations of Captain Marvel have been rare, and in some cases have been mixed with elements of Superman. The influence of Captain Marvel can be found in part in two Spanish Supermen: Marfisan (Ediciones González, 1952, 8 issues) and Superfuerte (Ferma, 1958, 10 issues). Both share with Superman

74

From “Shazam!” to “¡Sarka”

It All Ads Up! Two examples of Marvel Family advertising. Even in Spain they created Captain Marvel and Mary Marvel fan clubs, as per these ads from El Capitán Marvel #53 (Hispano Americana, 1950, above) and Almanaque Marvel 1949 (Hispano Americana, 1948, below right).

[Shazam heroes TM & © DC Comics.]

their extraterrestrial origins, although they came to Earth as adults and with the intention of helping humanity.

Superfuerte, on the other hand, is a robot.

Both Marfisan and Superfuerte are heroes with enormous strength, and the latter can also fly. Marfisan’s lightning bolt symbol on his chest was certainly inspired by Captain Marvel.

While Fawcett’s influence was apparent in these characters, there was another… a significant hero with an even greater underlying Captain Marvel influence: Superhombre!

The Most Important Spanish Super-hero: Superhombre Superhombre appeared in 1957 in a series published by Ferma that ran for 68 issues. No Spanish super-hero had lasted that long. The scriptwriter, penciler, and inker was Joan (Juan) Giralt (1922-2011).

Superhombre was a series of notable success in Spain and transcended national borders: it was published in Great Britain as Miracle Man (Top Sellers, 1965) and in Holland as Mirakel Man (Classics Nederland, 1965).

The origin of Superhombre is an interesting mixture of the birth of Captain Marvel and other elements known from Spanish popular culture. The protagonist is a young man of about 18 years of age named Juanito Montalván, who works

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

Lieutenant Marvels—Move Over!

(Above:) The lightning bolt on Marfisan’s uniform may have been inspired by Captain Marvel’s, but his stories were quite different from those of the World’s Mightiest Mortal. (Marfisan #5, González, 1952).

(Right:) Another Superfuerte cover— this one with the Spanish super-hero invading the realm of the Norse gods. Writers & artists unknown.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

75

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From “Shazam!” to “¡Sarka”

closely with his boss. Juanito is a bit older than Billy Batson, and his job is very different: he’s a detective for an international police agency (like Interpol), cleverly created

by Joan Giralt because it allowed Juanito to find himself constantly solving crimes that never occur in Spain. That added detail was very important to avoid censorship because stories were not allowed to show crimes in Spain because it would give a bad image to the dictatorship.

On one of his investigations, Juanito arrives at an Aztec temple in Mexico, where he saves an elderly man from a puma attack.

The man confesses to Juanito that he is the keeper of the “Sun Disk,” a small, round metal object that, when pressed, grants super-human powers. In gratitude for his rescue, and because he sees that Juanito is a noble person, he gives him the precious disk.

As in the case of Captain Marvel, the origin of Superhombre’s powers is magical, and it is a venerable old man who gives them to him. But there is one element that is specific to Spanish culture: its Aztec origin. Since the 17th century, this culture has been deeply rooted in the Spanish imagination, which identified it with an exotic, magical kingdom full of riches (“El Dorado”). Superhombre was thus born, associated with a culture and a land that had a direct link with Spain, thus preserving the element of national identity, a relevant aspect for Franco’s regime.

With One Magic Disk…

(Above:) The equivalent of Shazam, an old man who is guardian of a relic of an Aztec temple, the “Disk of the Sun,” gives the ancient object to Juanito Montalván—who promptly tries out his super-powers for the first time, in Superhombre #1 (Ferma, 1957).

(Below:) A magic word wasn’t needed—just a touch of the “Disk of the Sun.” Anyone in possession of the artifact could therefore obtain its powers. Juanito Montalván often had the uncanny ability to lose the relic and let evildoers get hold of it… although he always got it back in the end. From Superhombre #18 (1957).

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

77

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

The fact that the powers require a device that Juanito Montalván has to carry with him at all times and that is activated when he touches it made for interesting story situations. And there was no point in gagging Juanito, as was often done with Billy Batson, because he did not need a magic word to become his superhuman alter ego. But he can lose that special disk of his, and he certainly did on more than one occasion. Whenever that happened, whoever found it received the powers of Superhombre.

Billy Batson is the only one who can be Captain Marvel, thanks

to Shazam’s power, but anyone who has the Disk of the Sun can become Superhombre—which opened the door to some very intriguing storylines. Almost always, the disk ends up in the wrong hands, although once it is Juanito himself who temporarily gives it to a paralyzed boy to fulfill his dream of becoming a super-hero.

Super-powers Without Limits The powers granted to Juanito Montalván by the Sun Disk are plentiful—many that were clearly inspired by Captain Marvel or Superman, such as flight, superior strength, hypnosis, and intelligence.

But Superhombre also had additional powers that the other two heroes lacked, including teleportation, precognition (he can sense where the villains are hiding), and telepathy. With such abundant and awesome abilities, it’s a little odd that he occasionally used a laser gun—and it was never explained how he obtained it. (Obviously, the weapon was evocative of Flash Gordon, whose success in Spain was enormous.)

As a counterpart to these enormous powers, the Sun Disk did have one major drawback: it only lasted as long as its old guardian was alive. In fact, the Superhombre stories came to an end with issue #68, where Juanito met the old man on his deathbed and, after his demise, Juanito is left without powers.

At least Shazam let the Marvel Family keep theirs!

Exotic Adventures & Dangerous Enemies If Superhombre’s origin is quite similar to Captain Marvel’s, his adventures were also inspired by him but took place in very different environments. As mentioned above, Juanito as an international detective, which allowed him to travel to a wide variety of places, the United States being one of the most common. Additionally, since Superhombre could travel through time, he lives adventures in the past— becoming a gladiator in one story or visiting the Middle Ages in the next.

This angle allowed readers to enjoy Superhombre’s tales mixed with very popular genres in Spain: Westerns, jungle action, and mystery stories.

As All Good Things Must…

Superhombre comes to an end: his powers disappear when the old man who gave Juanito the Sun Disk dies.

Today almost no comicbook fan in Spain remembers Superhombre, despite the success he had in the 1940s.

From Superhombre #68 (Ferma, probably 1958). [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Another aspect in which Superhombre is an exception in Spain and shows his connection to Captain Marvel is the villains he faced. Most Spanish super-heroes limit themselves in their stories to fighting petty criminals (mobsters, extortionists, bank

78

From “Shazam!” to “¡Sarka”

robbers, gangsters), as Superman did in his early stories. And the battle between them ends up being disproportionate. In fact, it’s not even a fight, but a simple beating. No enemy is on the level of the heroes.

Although many of Superhombre’s adventures followed the same pattern, but he also faced enemies worthy of his power who put his abilities to the test. In fact, villains are one of the main attractions of his stories, including mad geniuses like Balak, who bore a striking resemblance to Lex Luthor, with one difference: Balak wears a military uniform and aspires to be a world dictator. No doubt the censors missed the detail that the villain is a military dictator like Franco or Mussolini.

The Spanish Version Of The Marvel Family The influence of Fawcett’s comics in Spain is also reflected in the presence of heroes conceived in imitation of Captain Marvel Jr. and Mary Marvel—characters who, as we have seen, were also known in Spain.

The equivalent of Captain Marvel Jr. appears in Superhombre’s own stories with a rather ridiculous name: Superfrac (“Supersuit”).

There are three aspects common to both characters: First, their human alter egos have some problems. In the case of Freddy Freeman, his problems are physical; those of Charles (Superfrac’s alter ego) are social, since he is a vagrant child. Second, when they are transformed into super-heroes, they both remain the same age, unlike Billy Batson when he becomes Captain Marvel. Finally, their powers are similar to those of their adult companions, to whom they relate as sidekicks.

The main difference between Superfrac and Captain Marvel Jr. is the way the former acquired his powers, hence his name. A mysterious man with a silver nose gives Carlos a magic tuxedo that, when worn, gives him superhuman powers.

There was no Mary Marvel in the adventures of Superhombre. To be honest, there were hardly any female characters, and when they did appear it was only as supporting characters. The reason?

Possibly writer/artist Giralt’s fear of attracting the attention of the censors, who were always on the lookout for any kind of relationships between characters of different sexes.

Maybe “Frac” Stands For “Fraction”?

Superfrac gets his powers from a tailcoat given to him by a mysterious philanthropist. At no point is it explained why his powers are identical to those of Superhombre, nor why Superfrac has a uniform similar to Superhombre’s under his tailcoat. Such plot holes were very common in Spanish comicbooks of the ’40s and ’50s. From Superhombre #29 (Ferma 1957), wherein the younger and older heroes clashed. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

The Power Of Sarka Nevertheless, there was a Spanish “Mary Marvel”! She appeared in a comic magazine for girls, and the character was a curious mix of super-heroine and fairy. Her name was Sarka. The character appeared in 1955 in the magazine Florita, but only for five issues (#311 to 315). Florita, published between 1949 and 1961 by Ediciones Cliper and Hispano Americana de Ediciones, was one of the most successful magazines for girls during the Franco regime,

reaching 591 issues. From the very first issue, the cover warned that it was a magazine “for girls.” Florita was a modern magazine for its time, especially because of its main character (yes, called Florita), a young woman whose clothes and family environment showed a glamour more typical of what Spaniards saw in American movies than what they could experience in their own lives.

Sarka’s short stories have very simple plots. A little girl, Anita, victim of bullying by other children, meets a fairy godmother who, with her magic wand, gives her the power to become a “modern fairy”—grown-up and in costume. All she has to do is say her alter ego’s name: “¡Sarka!”

79

FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America]

¡Sarka!

(Left:) Introduction of Sarka, from Florita #311 (Ediciones Clíper, 1955).

(Below:) Unlike Superfrac and Superhombre, Sarka does get her powers by shouting a magic word that transforms her from a child into a super-heroine!

(Florita #312, Ediciones Clíper, 1955).

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

But Sarka is no ordinary fairy and is really more of a super-heroine, able to leap great distances, fly, or display Herculean super-human strength. Still, her adventures rarely allow her to show her full power, as they were still childish stories wherein she had to deal with an ogre or a witch, or teach a young girl how to cook. Beyond a punch to an ogre, her adventures were resolved through dialogue and example. This was in keeping with the moralizing spirit of girls’ magazines, but perhaps was a bit too childish for Florita, which was aimed at a more adolescent audience.

When The Feminine Mystique Packed A Punch Sarka avoids violence, and tries to be a good role model for girls, although sometimes she has no choice but to throw a punch or two. The absence of violence in Sarka’s adventures and their moralizing content was not only in line with Franco’s legislation on children’s and young people’s publications, but at that time it was considered more appropriate in Spain for a publication intended for girls. From Florita #312 (Ediciones Clíper, 1955). [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

The similarities between Mary Marvel and Sarka are more than obvious, while the differences between the two are the result of the peculiarities of Franco’s Spain. With fairy tales being the genre most often offered to girls in Spanish comics, it should come as no surprise that in Sarka’s case, the role of Shazam is played by a fairy godmother. Anita was a younger girl than Mary Batson. In short, the idea was to try to reconcile two conceptually different genres—fairy tales and super-heroes. This was evident not only in Sarka’s origin, but also in her adventures, which lack the recurring themes of super-hero comics, and especially in the type of characters she faces: ogres and witches instead of mad scientists, monsters, or aliens.

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From “Shazam!” to “¡Sarka”

Fawcett Vs. Franco In a Spain where censorship was so strict, it can be said that Fawcett’s characters had a remarkable influence, helping to create the most powerful super-heroes in the history of Spanish comics, as well as those that were the most similar to American super-heroes.

In this sense, it can be said that it was the overflowing imagination of Fawcett’s comics that allowed these extraordinary super-heroes to appear in Spain. Unfortunately, today, no one remembers Superhombre, Superfrac, or Sarka. Perhaps because they were such unusual heroes at the time they were created, they failed to go down in Spanish comics history like Captain Marvel and The Marvel Family did in the United States.

Ignacio Fernández Sarasola, Ph. D., is a Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Oviedo, Spain.

Next Month: The Bottle City Of New Madrid It seems to us as if some of Superhombre’s adventures did echo those of the Golden Age Superman and Captain Marvel—as on this cover on which the Spanish super-hero comes face to face with the “Superhombre of the Ice Age” in issue #27. Writers and artists unknown.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

And it looks like the Big Red Cheese is thinking pretty much the same thing in the C.C. Beck art from the cover of Captain Marvel Adventures #92 (Jan. 1949). Courtesy of the GCD. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics.]

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Vol. 3, No. 188/July 2024 Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editor Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck J.T. Go (Associate Editor) Mark Lewis (Cover Coordinator)

Comic Crypt Editor

Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll

Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich, Bill Schelly

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Cover Artists

Carmine Infantino/Murphy Anderson

Cover Color and Restoration Chris Fama

With Special Thanks to: Heidi Amash Henry Andrews David Armstrong Bob Bailey Jean Bails Rod Beck John Benson Ricky Terry Brisaque Mike Bromberg Mike Burkey Nick Caputo Dewey Cassell John Cimino Shaun Clancy Comic Book Plus (website) Comic Vine (website) Pierre Comtois Chet Cox Daniel James Cox Jennifer DeRoss Leonardo de Sá Craig Delich Al Dellinges Diversions of the Groovy Kind Michael Dunne Mark Evanier Shane Foley Julia Fox Terri Fox Joe Frank Stephan A. Friedt Jeff Gelb Janet Gilbert Grand Comics Database (website) Alex Grand Jeff Hamett Dan Hagen Rob Hansen Ben Herman Sean Howe Richard Howell R.A. Jones John Joshua

Jim Kealy Lambiek Comiclopedia (website) Tom Lammers Tristan Lapoussiere Dominic Leonard Jean-Marc Lofficier Art Lortie Jim Ludwig Eve Machlan Magnus Doug Martin Gustavo Medina Mike Mikulovsky Dusty Miller Mark Muller Jerry Ordway Palantine News Network (website) Barry Pearl Pinterest (website) pulpartists.com (website) Todd Reis James Rosen Allen Ross Dan St. John Ignacio Fernández Sarasola Randy Sargent Sasquatch Media David Saunders Cory Sedlmeier Richard Seeto Mitchell Senft Craig Shutt Walter Simonson Derrick Smith Emilio Soltero J. David Spurlock Dann Thomas Robert Tuska Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Delmo Walters, Jr. Mark Witz

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Tim Sale, Dan Green, & Mike Machlan

Contents Writer/Editorial: Taking DC’s Side . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 “30¢ Was The Only Money I’ve Ever Spent On Comics In My Whole Life” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Julius Schwartz tells David Armstrong about being a DC editor for four decades.

“It Was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living” . . . . . . . . . . 11 Carmine Infantino as artist, writer, editorial director, and publisher.

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician” . . . . . . . . . . . 29 Joe Kubert as artist, as editor, as teacher, as businessman… and as force of nature.

“I Had An Epiphany” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .43 Writer John Broome relates his life in and out of comics.

“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True” . . . . . . . . 51 The joyful (and enviable) career of Murphy Anderson.

Forever Fox . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 Jennifer DeRoss talks to the family and clan of Golden/Silver Age writer Gardner Fox.

re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . 73 On Our Cover: Two of this side’s interviewees, DC editor Julius Schwartz and writer Gardner Fox, conceived the Earth One/Earth Two “crises” way back in 1963. In Justice League of America #56 (Sept. 1967), the same editor-&-writer team were still hard at it, now aided and abetted by a calamitous cover by two more of this section’s spotlighted stars: penciler Carmine Infantino and inker Murphy Anderson. But did anybody in the DC offices really think the Justice Society team on this one was gonna last two seconds against Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, and Green Arrow?

Cover art suggested by TwoMorrows editor John Morrow. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Above: Julie Schwartz edited, John Broome scripted, Carmine Infantino penciled, and Joe Kubert inked the second of the two “Flash” yarns in the landmark Showcase #4 (Sept.-Oct. 1956)— thus covering four of the five DC stalwarts interviewed for this issue. Thanks to Jim Kealy. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Alter EgoTM issue 188, July 2024 (ISSN 1932-6890) is published bi-monthly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Periodicals postage paid at Raleigh, NC. POSTMASTER: Send address changes to Alter Ego, c/o TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614.

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All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

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Article Title writer/editorial

Taking DC’s Side

ou know what? Just to save myself some repetition, I’m going to assume you’ve already read my scurrilous little editorial on the flip side of this issue… and I’m gonna veer off in a slightly different direction.

I’ll confess: I feel a little uncertain whether to count the Marvel or DC side of this double-length “flip” issue as the “A” side.

After all, I’ve done the great majority of my professional work for Marvel Comics, between 1965 and 1980, then again between 1987 and the end of the last century—plus the occasional foray for Marvel since the Y2K threat turned out to be a non-starter.

At the same time, DC Comics was my main love in childhood, and the company I started with in 1965 (albeit for only a week or two), as well as one to which I was under contract from 1981-1986 and for which I’ve done a bit of work since.

But, you know what? (That phrase again!) That’s the beauty of a book with half its pages printed upside down from the other half. Except for the minor matter of these editorials, it doesn’t really matter which side you sample first. The other one will still be there waiting for you, fresh as a Daisy air-rifle, when you finish this one.

At the risk of a bit of repetition, John Morrow and I were thrilled to receive, shortly before we decided on this extra-sized celebration, a whole passel of shortish interviews conducted by longtime fan David Armstrong at various San Diego Comic-Cons between 1997 & 2001. Dave graciously made them available, already transcribed (many by Alex Grand of the well-regarded

“Comic Book Historians” podcasts), to TwoMorrows. John himself understandably vacuumed up the one with Joe Simon for The Jack Kirby Collector, but left the rest to me. I utilized most of the Marveland-DC-oriented ones for this special issue. (And I hope to feature the rest of Dave’s mother lode in future issues.)

Actually, there is one among those interviews that definitely would’ve been in this edition, except for the unkind workings of fate. While this issue was in the early stages, my friend and Marvel colleague John Romita passed away after a long illness, so I’ve saved Dave’s talk with him for the very next issue of Alter Ego, which will be almost entirely devoted to Jazzy Johnny.

Meanwhile, by sheer happenstance, four of the five DC-related interviews that follow are with folks associated with Showcase #4, the “Flash”-reviving comic that launched the Silver Age: editor Julius Schwartz, penciler Carmine Infantino, writer (of the second story in that mag) John Broome, and inker Joe Kubert—with future Flash cover embellisher Murphy Anderson tacked on at the end.

And, fittingly, Jennifer DeRoss, who wrote the 2017 Gardner Fox biography Forgotten All-Star, is on hand with a photo-feature on the writer who scribed the very first story of the original Scarlet Speedster, back in Flash Comics #1 at the tail end of 1939.

If you don’t already feel celebratory, you will by the time you’ve finished these 160 pages!

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“30¢ Was The Only Money I’ve Ever Spent On Comics In My Whole Life” JULIUS SCHWARTZ On Being A DC Editor For Four Decades

A/E

Interview Conducted by David Armstrong

EDITOR’S NOTE: The Silver Age of Comics really began with Julius Schwartz, editor of “The Flash” revival in Showcase #4 (Oct. 1956)—and moved into high gear with his subsequent reincarnations of “Green Lantern,” “Justice League of America,” “Hawkman,” and “The Atom.” By then, however, the self-styled “Man of Two Worlds” had already been active in the wacky world of comicbooks for more than twenty years—in the world of science-fiction fan and even professional life for a decade and a half before that. You won’t find out all that much about Julie’s life from the responses he gave Dave Armstrong in this August 13, 1999, interview… but we all may learn a thing or three, all the same….

Julius Schwartz as pictured on the cover of his 2000 (co-written) autobiography—framed between comicbook images representing the early days of his Golden and Silver Age careers: (Left:) A couple of years after Julie went to work as Sheldon Mayer’s story editor at All-American, which was soon bought outright by DC, he would have storyedited this lead tale for Flash Comics #72 (June 1946). Script by Gardner Fox; art

by E.E. Hibbard. Thanks to the Lambiek Comiclopedia website.

(Above:) The Silver Age of Comics would be launched—even if nobody knew it at the time—with the debut of a new Flash in Showcase #4 (Oct.-Nov. 1956). He assigned the script for the origin story to Robert Kanigher… the art to penciler Carmine Infantino and inker Joe Kubert. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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“30¢ Was The Only Money I’ve Ever Spent On Comics In My Whole Life”

DAVE ARMSTRONG: You started in the comicbook business in 1944.

How did you get there?

JULIUS SCHWARTZ: Well, let’s see… I got into comics, I guess, from the day I was born… I didn’t know it. No, let’s be realistic.

My getting into comics has its background in 1931, when I attended a meeting of a science-fiction club called The Scienceers, in the Bronx. And I met a fellow named Mort Weisinger. He and I became fast friends. We hung out together, we did nothing but talk science-fiction…. In due time, our interest in science-fiction paid off professionally. Mort became an editor of a science-fiction magazine, which is a wonderful goal to reach. It was a magazine called Thrilling Wonder Stories. That was about 1934 or ’5. He and I had started a [science-fiction] literary agency prior to that, but he went off editing a science-fiction magazine and I kept up the literary agency.

comic magazines. In those days, they were ten cents—three comicbooks for 30¢. This was in 1944—February 21st, 1944—those comicbooks I bought for 30¢ was the only money I’ve ever spent on comics in my whole life, although I was involved for many, many years. I was interviewed by Shelly Mayer, who was the editor of All-American Comics, which would shortly join up with DC Comics. They were like branch outfits. My job was to plot stories and edit them; I was not involved in the artwork.

I neglected to mention that Alfred Bester, who I helped get started in science-fiction, also did comics. He was writing what is called the Golden Age “Green Lantern.” So I was hired for the job February 21st, and the editor said, “You must begin work immediately.” And we both agreed that you cannnot begin work

DA: Who were some of your clients?

SCHWARTZ: Well, when I started off, I had Edmond Hamilton, Manly Wade Wellman, Otto Binder. I don’t know if these names are familiar to you, but they’re familiar to science-fiction people. Otto Binder is a familiar name in science-fiction, but he’s more familiar for doing comics work. He wrote over 500 “Captain Marvel” stories, for example. But I’m getting too far away from me… let’s talk about me, not Otto Binder.

So I became an agent, and I was selling stories to Mort and other magazines. Mort decided to hold a contest to discover new writers. And the one he discovered, who would get top prize of $50, was a fellow he had never heard of called Alfred Bester. Mort predicted Bester would become a great writer and he wanted me to handle him. I was his agent, told him about the markets… what kind of stories editors wanted.

Alfie and I became fast friends and we socialized a lot, mostly in his house. And one evening he said to me, “Julie, I want you to do me a favor. I want you to go down to an editor at All-American Comics.

They need an editor who can plot and proofread and do things to a script that would make it presentable.” So I said, “Don’t send me down to a comicbook man; I’ve never read a comicbook in Alfred Bester my life. How am I going to talk about comics?”

He said, “What you will do is buy some comic magazines, read them on the subway, and when you get to see this editor, who’ll be Shelly Mayer, he would know and you would know what to talk about.”

So, I bought three

Sheldon Mayer

“…Born On A Monday…”

An even earlier—and more important—story that Julie probably story-edited under AA editor Mayer was the introduction of the gaunt swamp-monster Solomon Grundy in the “Green Lantern” lead yarn in All-American Comics #61 (Oct. 1944), with art by Paul Reinman. Script by Alfred Bester, who, before he moved on to fame as a science-fiction author and (at least a bit more) fortune as a magazine writer, is the guy who talked Schwartz into applying for the job. From Roy T.’s personal collection.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

Julius Schwartz On Being A DC Editor For Four Decades

5

immediately, you have to wait ‘til February 23rd.

When I tell that to people, they say, “I wonder why that could be? You’re hired February 21st, they want you to get to work immediately and you had to wait until February 23rd.” See, all the people I’m talking to—I’m surrounded by hundreds of people while I’m being interviewed—not one person knows. Maybe Murphy Anderson, over there, knows. Murphy, do you know?

MURPHY ANDERSON: Oh, absolutely— Washington’s Birthday.

SCHWARTZ: There you are. February 22nd, back in the ’40s, was a legal holiday. They celebrated Washington’s Birthday on Washington’s birthday, not on the Monday before or after. So I began work.

Shortly thereafter, Shelly Mayer left. I now had the responsibility of plotting stories, looking over the artwork, arranging for covers, doing proofreading, to make sure everything would come out right. So that’s what an editor does.

DA: Did you sit down and have story conferences with your writer and your artist, when you sat down to do the story?

SCHWARTZ: When the time came to do a “Green Lantern” story, for example, I would call in Alfred Bester, who continued with the magazine for another year… and Alfie and I would come down, we’d toss ideas around. Alfie would go home and write it. He’d bring it back and I’d edit it. If a correction had to be made—but not with Alfred Bester, he was great. But Alfred Bester left within a year, and then I got some of my clients, my science-fiction clients, to [start writing comics]. There was a fellow named Henry Kuttner, and followed eventually by John Broome. So here I was, editing magazines. Which means what?

What does an editor do? An editor’s like the general of an army. He lays out a plan for the army being victorious over the enemy. In my case, I had to lay a plan for me being victorious over the public out there. I had to get them to spend 10¢ to buy that magazine. Now, what’s going to persuade ‘em to buy a magazine? When he goes to the newsstand, he looks, literally, at hundreds of comicbooks. What’s going to make him pick out a magazine? It’s the cover.

Something on that cover must intrigue him, to force him to pay 10¢ and get that magazine. How are we doing?

The Case Of The Vanished Writer The identity of the scribe of this lead story from Flash Comics #88 (Oct. 1947) is unknown—it might be John Broome, Robert Kanigher, or someone else. Thanks to DC researcher supreme Craig Delich, we know that the tale was penciled by Joe Kubert, and inked by one Moe Worthman. Oh, and edited by Julius Schwartz. While Golden Age covers were almost certainly done after the stories themselves had been scripted and drawn, in some cases—including this one—the splash page was also used as the cover illustration. Thanks to the GCD. [TM © DC Comics.]

[There’s a short discussion about the sound of sirens in the background] …Now, he’s not going to indiscriminately put out 10¢—we’re talking 1944, 10¢ was a lot of money—it only cost 2¢ to mail a letter or buy a newspaper. You buy a penny’s worth of candy. 10¢ was a lot of money. So if he saw, literally, hundreds of magazines, what would persuade him to pick out this magazine instead of that magazine? The first thing a potential buyer sees is the cover. If I can attract him, by that cover, my cover—as contrasted to a hundred other covers, scattered all around that newsstand, and I can get him to pick it up and look at that cover and say, “This is interesting.

How does a thing like this happen on the cover? I’ve got to buy that magazine and see the reason for this startling thing happening on the cover.” So naturally, if covers are going to sell the magazine, I had to make sure I had an interesting cover. Originally, in the early

days, the artwork would be completed and then the editor would look through the various pages of the artwork and say, “Hmm, This might make a good scene.”

And then once in a while, there was nothing that would make a good scene. So, in due time, we said, “Why don’t we work in reverse? Instead of having the artwork done and then the cover, let’s do the cover and then do the artwork.” So I call in some artists, Murphy Anderson would be one, Carmine Infantino would be one, Gil Kane would one, and we sit down—we didn’t sit down, we’d pace back and forth. Murphy would draw a sketch. We would not do this all together; Murphy would come in by himself, Carmine Infantino would come in by himself, and eventually we’d sketch out something, a provocative situation, and we’d say, “That’s it!

Let’s do it! And when that’s done, we’re going to force the reader to buy that magazine.”

6

“30¢ Was The Only Money I’ve Ever Spent On Comics In My Whole Life”

Cover Story (Left:) As Julie recounts, this famous cover for The Flash #163 (Aug. 1966) penciled by Carmine Infantino was worked out between the artist and himself as editor before the related story inside was written, or probably even dreamed of. Inks by Joe Giella.

(Right:) The writer (in this case Gardner Fox) would be directed to devise a story that contained the pre-existing cover scene, for the interior penciler (in this case Mike Sekowsky) to illustrate. This cover by Murphy Anderson fronted Justice League of America #14 (Sept. 1962), which saw the Silver Age Atom inducted into the popular super-group. Thanks to the GCD for both scans. [TM & © DC Comics.]

And one of the prime examples I gave was something I worked out with Carmine Infantino. Which is simply this: we see a close-up of The Flash, holding his hand up to the reader, like a traffic cop—the hand would be exaggerated, poking the reader in the face. All you see is The Flash and that big hand with red coloring, and the lettering, in the balloon, would say, in big lettering, “Stop! Don’t pass this magazine by! My life depends on it!” Hopefully a reader would say, “Wow, I’ve got to buy this magazine. I can’t let The Flash die.” That would be a typical Flash cover. In Batman, we’d do something a little different. Batman was known for always being involved in a trap. Whoever saw the Batman television show, there was a two-parter. Part one always ended with Batman in an involved trap. How could he possibly get out? We knew he could get out. So I evolved, with the help of an artist, a trap.

I had, in one case, a water tank. Water was flowing in from above and Batman was in the water, his hands handcuffed behind him. And he was keeping his head above water so he could breathe—and the water kept going higher and higher. You knew Batman’s going to get higher and higher. Until you looked up, at the top of the cover and you saw two machine-guns at either end of the tank shooting bullets back and forth. So Batman had a choice: go down and drown, or should I be a hero, stick my head up and be shot dead. That’s why the reader had to buy that cover.

How does Batman get out of that trap? I’m not going to tell any of these people. Go back to 1966 or ’7 – buy it for yourself. No, seriously, what he did, he realized for water to go in, it eventually has to go out. So he found a little thing he had to turn and get out.

So as you see, an editor has to conquer the enemy. The potential buyer is that enemy. I have to capture him and get him to part with 10¢. Eventually, times were getting tough. To put out a magazine, we couldn’t do it for a dime anymore. So we had an editorial in the magazine explaining because of the rising costs of paper and everything else and economic conditions, we were forced to raise the price of the magazine from 10¢ to 12¢. Now, I hope your audience is laughing at that—10¢ to 12¢. That 2¢ was a lot of money back then. And then soon enough we had to go to 15¢, 25¢, 50¢, 85¢, a dollar. Many magazines are selling for a dollar ninety-five, some for two ninety-five, bigger ones are going for 4 ninety-five. So you see how things have evolved.

DA: When you first started, how long did you work with Shelly Mayer?

Julius Schwartz On Being A DC Editor For Four Decades

SCHWARTZ: I worked for Shelly Mayer, but I only worked for All-American Comics.

Within a year, All-American Comics [and DC Comics] combined. So we moved out of the office downtown, and moved uptown to 480 Lexington Avenue. How well I remember that address! And that’s where All-American was combined with DC Comics and became DC Comics.

DA: Were they both owned by the Donenfelds?

SCHWARTZ: Donenfeld and, uh, Gaines, of course. Max Gaines… Max C. Gaines. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: M.C. Gaines sold his interest in All-American Comics to Donenfeld in 1945 and soon afterward founded an entirely new company, EC (which originally stood for “Educational Comics,” later for “Entertaining Comics.”]

DA: Did you ever meet Gaines?

SCHWARTZ: Yes, I saw him… when actually he was, theoretically my boss. Shelley Mayer hired me, but Max Gaines never was involved in the comics; he was in on the business end.

He was a partner, in a sense, with Harry Donenfeld, who was running DC Comics. Let me tell you an interesting thing, in connection with that. One day [years earlier], Shelley Mayer gets some syndicate… a syndicate is a newspaper strip that appears every day. It’s called a newspaper strip, I guess. And he got one about a character called Superman. It was done by a couple of kids named [Jerry] Siegel and [Joe] Shuster. They had failed to sell it to the newspaper syndicates.

But Gaines was putting out a magazine that was reprinting syndicate material. So they [Siegel and Shuster] got the idea, “Hey, maybe they’ll take a new one and maybe some newspaper will pick it up.” So they sent it to All-American Comics. And Shelley Mayer was the one that saw it first. Well, he liked it, and he brought it in to Max Gaines and says, “I think we can use this Superman character.”

And Gaines says, “Awww…” and then he says, “Wait a second. Harry Donenfeld, my partner, in a sense, is putting out a magazine called Action Comics and he hasn’t got a lead feature for it. Let’s send up this Superman character. Maybe he’ll go for it.” So you see, Shelley Mayer was really the discoverer, in my opinion. This is a story I’ve heard and I believe it, the discoverer of “Superman” comics, of “Superman” going into Action Comics, June, 1938. And from then on, it’s history. But I don’t want to talk about that—let’s talk about me.

Ask me another question.

[A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: I’m afraid that Julie’s account of the discovery of Superman contains a few crucial errors: In 1938, there was no All-American Comics company, and M.C. Gaines and Shelly Mayer were working not in comicbooks but for the McClure Syndicate, to which Siegel and Shuster had submitted Superman as a potential

Hell Or High Water One of the earliest covers in Julius Schwartz’s “New Look” Batman was drawn by Infantino (with Giella inks) for Batman #166 (Sept. 1964)… and depicted a life-and-death situation that Julie and the writer would have to plot their way out of. But hey—didn’t Julie say there were two machineguns? Thanks to the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

7

8

“30¢ Was The Only Money I’ve Ever Spent On Comics In My Whole Life”

“Julie, Julie, Julie” (as an old-time Cary Grant imitator might’ve said on an off day) was drawn by Sid Greene as a supporting character for the “Star Rovers” continuing feature in Mystery in Space #69 (Aug. 1961). Sticking his editor’s likeness into a story was a trademark of Greene’s in his science-fiction artwork of that period. Script by Gardner F. Fox. Along with his many other accomplishments, Julius Schwartz was an important editor of DC’s two foremost super-groups: (Below left:) In 1948, editor Shelly Mayer resigned to go back to cartooning for a living, and Julie became full editor of, among other things, All-Star Comics, home base for the Justice Society of America.

Probably one of the first, if not the first, issue(s) he fully edited was #42 (Aug.-Sept. 1948), in which major changes were made to the visual aspects of Hawkman and, especially, The Atom. Cover by Irwin Hasen.

(Below right:) Julie was editor, right from the start, of the “Justice League of America” feature, which, before it received its own title, starred in three successive issues of The Brave and the Bold, beginning with #28 (Feb.March 1960). Cover by Mike Sekowsky & Murphy Anderson. Thanks to the GCD for both scans and cover credits.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

Julius Schwartz On Being A DC Editor For Four Decades

9

newspaper comic strip. While whether it was Mayer or Gaines (or someone else) who first saw the potential of “Superman” for comicbooks is open to dispute, neither of them had any direct connection with a comics company (although Siegel and Shuster did) when it was suggested, apparently to Donenfeld’s editor Vin Sullivan, that “Superman” might make an interesting lead hero for DC’s forthcoming new title Action Comics. And the rest, as they say, is history—if anybody can ever pin down exactly what history happened back in early ’38….]

DA: Did you actually report to Shelly? Or did he give you a long string to do what you wanted to do?

SCHWARTZ: I worked with Shelly. I only was involved in plotting the stories, editing them and proofreading. I had nothing to do with the artwork. I knew nothing about the artwork. I still don’t know anything about artwork. Well, in due time, Shelley left, and he says. “Julie, you’ve got to handle the magazines all by yourself.” I said, “But Shelley, I know nothing about artwork.” He says, “You listen to me. The youngsters who buy the comics, they don’t know nothing about artwork. So they don’t know any more than you. When an artist brings in artwork, if it doesn’t look right for you, you can’t explain why—maybe he looks too tall, his head is too small—just tell him to change it. Tell him it “doesn’t look right.” They think you know what you’re talking about. Let ‘em go back and do the artwork over.” That’s how I got away with it.

For a full-issue tribute to Julius Schwartz, get hold of a copy of Alter Ego #38.

Let’s Strip For Action!

Following a newly created page that pictured Superman’s origin, the above second page of the “Superman” story in Action Comics #1 (June 1938) and subsequent pages were pasted up from cut-apart sample newspaper dailies produced by writer Jerry Siegel and artist Joe Shuster. That strip-derived sequence became the seventh page of the lead story when it was reprinted in Superman #1 a year later with a “1939” cover date. Reproduced from the DC Archives edition. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster (the former standing) in a 1941 photo that appeared in Coronet magazine.

“It Was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

11

CARMINE INFANTINO Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher Interview Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand Carmine Infantino

(on left) with his friend/associate David Spurlock in April 2000, at the first comics convention at which the artist had appeared since leaving the post of DC Comics publisher. Photo by Mark Witz.

Juxtaposed with it are the final Golden Age “Flash” solo splash that Infantino (or anybody else) drew, for the final issue of Flash Comics (#104, Feb. 1949), as inked by Frank Giacoia, and scripted by either John Broome or Robert Kanigher—reproduced from The Flash Archives, Vol. 1— —and Carmine’s cover for the very first Silver Age “Flash” appearance, in Showcase #4 (Sept.-Oct. 1956), inked by Joe Kubert and designed by Robert Kanigher. [TM & © DC Comics.]

12

A/E

Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

EDITOR’S NOTE: Although he’d been a comics artist since the mid-1940s or so, Carmine Infantino became the first truly celebrated artist of the so-called Silver Age of Comics, since he penciled the “Flash” series that started it all in 1956, continuing on that feature for more than a decade. Later he became first in charge of DC’s covers, then the company’s editorial director, and then its publisher for several years. After that stint ended, he drew for Marvel, Warren, and even DC Comics again—but his heart clearly lay with the years when he was running things. And who’s to say he was wrong about that? Dave Armstrong conducted the interview on Aug. 14, 1999, at the San Diego Comic-Con. DAVE ARMSTRONG: When did you start drawing?

And I got a little work off him, some inking, some penciling, not very much. And then they asked me to work on staff, and my father said, “No way, you’re finishing school.” So that took care of that.

And, a year or so later, Al Capp wanted me to come work for him in Boston. And again, my father said, “No way.” I didn’t think I was going to be a cartoonist, after all this went on. But I kept going.

It was all right.

DA: Well, it was a good way to make money, considering. In fact, you were still in school…. You made money while you were still a teenager.

INFANTINO: Yeah I was making some money, but I wanted to go full blast. I wanted to get out of school. I wanted the works, you

CARMINE INFANTINO: I was a kid… I think seven, eight years old. I started to draw, and my father looked at the drawings and says, “You’re copying these things. Where are you getting them from?” And I didn’t. He never believed me. He never quite believed me. And from there, it just progressed onward.

DA: Do you have any formal training?

INFANTINO: Oh, yeah. I studied at the Museum of Brooklyn Art, the School of Industrial Art. I went also to the Art Students League. About 15 years I studied, you know, it was quite a bit. And then, later on, I went to the school I’m teaching at now, the School of Visual Arts. I studied there about three years, so I had quite a few years in.

DA: Who were the biggest influences?

INFANTINO: [Hal] Foster and [Milt] Caniff, to a degree, [Mort] Meskin and Jack Kirby, both. Edd Cartier… he was a big influence. I loved his work. Did you follow the pulps? I used to read The Shadow. Doc Savage. And then [Hillman comics editor] Ed Cronin put me on to Somerset Maugham, and so on and so forth.

DA: When did you sell your first professional piece?

INFANTINO: The first one I did was rejected…. It was a place called Fox Comics, a tiny outfit…. I think I was 16 at the time and I brought it in and I was looking forward to my check, but [the editor] said, “I can’t accept this.

It’s not professional,” and they turned it away.

Then I got more determined, and the next job they took it. I think I was about 17½ or so. My first job.

DA: And what year was that? ’43? ’44?

INFANTINO: Just about that, yeah. I did one job [for Fox] and that was it. Then I said, No way, that’s it. I got even.

DA: Did you find out from the rest of the business that he was the cheapest guy in the business?

A Heap Of Trouble

INFANTINO: Well, nobody else would hire me, so it was the only place I could go. So that’s the only reason I worked there. I made the rounds…. Joe Simon was the editor in those days of Timely Comics… Marvel Comics today.

Carmine relates how Hillman editor Ed Cronin pushed him to write, as well as pencil, stories such as (probably) this one for “The Heap” in Airboy Comics, Vol. 5, #4 (May 1948). We’re re-presenting a climactic page because the original comicbook swampster didn’t appear on the splash page anyway. Inks by Leonard Starr. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. Oh, and A/E’s editor was honored to present a hardcover three-volume series of the complete Hillman “Heap” stories for PS Artbooks a decade or so back. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

13

know?.... And in those days, you got to remember, if you finished high school, that was it. To go to college was just out of the question….

[After high school] I worked for a number of smaller companies. I worked for a place called Hillman Comics, a man [named] Ed Cronin over there…. And before that, there was a wonderful guy on 23rd Street. He called it a “factory,” where they had artists sitting there drawing day and night. Harry Chesler. Harry would give me five bucks just to come in, sit there, watch people draw, go back and forth and eat every day, which is very nice. Now, a lot of people hated him, but he was awfully good to me. I can never say a [bad] word about him.

DA: He treated younger artists who were getting into the business better than the guys who [were already working for him]?

INFANTINO: Yeah, the other guys—oh, boy! He was rough. And he was a character, with his little derby [and] the desk. There was a rickety elevator that went all the way up to the fourth floor, and you got out, and he’s facing you behind this old desk and puffing on a cigar. And he had a Milton Caniff drawing in back of him. That was his standard. And the other room was like a prison, really; artists were sitting. It was interesting. But I learned and I learned; that was important.

DA: When you were at Chesler, did you end up learning composition or layout from any of the guys?

INFANTINO: No, I went to the Art Students League.

There was a teacher there named Jim McNulty, an elderly guy, but brilliant. He’s the one that taught me composition design, just a tremendous man. That’s where I got most of it from. From there, I went to Hillman Comics. That was editor Cronin. He was a great teacher. He’s the one that made me study writing. He kept pounding on me, and he made me write some stuff for him. I wrote things like “The Heap,” “Airboy,” a couple of crime stories for him, and then he put me onto Somerset Maugham and de Maupassant, et cetera, et cetera. So I began picking up my writing skills there, right? Early age. I was about 17 at the time.

DA: And where did you learn story flow?

The Tortoise & The Hero We couldn’t find any evidence that Infantino ever drew the Golden Age “Johnny Quick” feature, which wouldn’t have been for editor Shelly Mayer in any event—but Mayer did put him on “The Flash” in such issues as Comic Cavalcade #24 (Dec. 1947-Jan. 1948). Inks by Frank Giacoia; script

by Robert Kanigher. (NOTE: The “Johnny” series that Carmine was talking about was probably “Johnny Thunder.”) Thanks to Rod Beck. [TM & © DC Comics.]

INFANTINO: Oh, that’s adapting. Just doing and doing and doing. That’s how you got it. I was working for DC for a while, and then I got a call from Simon and Kirby: would I come work for them? I knew they were cheap…. But working with Kirby was worth it. So I went down there. I didn’t quit DC. I did that stuff at night, and I went there to work with Jack…. I learned a hell of a lot from him. I’ll never forget that fast guy. Tremendous. Tremendous. We got to be good friends over the years.

DA: And what kind of stories did you do at DC?

INFANTINO: I think I started on a thing called “Johnny Quick” or something. This was the whole transition period when Sheldon Mayer had taken over and he was moving the older guys out and he moved [in] people like myself. Kubert and Alex Toth were coming in at that time.

DA: And what was it like to work with someone like Shelly?

INFANTINO: I loved him…. Frank Giacoia—he’s gone now, he’s dead—we went to his office, very impressed with him. We’re sitting there, and all of a sudden, the door opens behind us and little [Irwin] Hasen comes in with a T-square, leaps on the desk.

Shelly grabs a T-square, and they start dueling all around the room, and Frank and I look at each other. What the hell is going on? It’s supposed to be a business. And then they touch swords, they kiss each other, and Hasen walked out, and that was our initiation.

National Comics. They were both crazy. Shelley was really mad.

DA: He was a cartoonist.

14

Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

INFANTINO: Yeah, a terrific one. He taught us tremendously. He was great. He was tough to work with. A tough cookie. But you learned with him. I brought in a job once I really didn’t take my time with. And he looked at it. He looked at me and he says, “Do you want me to accept this?” I said, “Well….” He said, “You want me to accept it? I’ll accept it, but do you really want me to accept it?” I took it home, redid it. He knew how to handle it.

DA: Do you know Toth and Kubert?

INFANTINO: Sure. We grew up together. Gil Kane came in later. But Joe Kubert and Alex and I grew up together. Joe had a studio in Manhattan. We all used to congregate over there. We’d hang around. We’d stay to all hours, sometimes two, three in the morning. It was fun. We had good times there.

DA: You guys were the Young Turks…. I was talking with Irwin, and he said that Alex, because of his domineering mother and the fact that they had a tough family life, really kind of latched on to Irwin…. He really loved [Hasen’s] work, because it was a nice, simple, bold.

INFANTINO: Yeah, Irwin’s work is very much like Frank Robbins.

And Alex was at that time enamored of Frank Robbins. And then he went from Robbins to Noel Sickles. And then, of course, at the end was Captain Easy… Roy Crane. The best of the lot. But Alex was the cream, in my opinion. Alex and a guy named Nick Cardy are the best in the business.

DA: You were working for DC at night and you were working for Simon & Kirby during the day?

INFANTINO: Yeah, I did it for about two years. I couldn’t do it anymore. It was too much, you know, because I had no social life.

And finally I left. Joe and Jack went back to DC. DA: How many pages did you pencil in those days?

INFANTINO: I would do two during a day and two at night. So I think I had four hours sleep a day, and it was pretty rough.

DA: And how much inking did you do on your own stuff?

INFANTINO: At the beginning? Very little. Later on, I did a little more, but DC never liked my inking, so they wouldn’t let me do it. But I threatened to quit once in a while, and they’d give me a [pencil-and-ink] job to do here and there. They appeased me.

DA: Who were your main inkers?

INFANTINO: Bernie Sachs was one. Joe Giella was another. Of course, Murphy was another one. And Frank Giacoia. Frank, I think, was the best of the lot. We traveled together, he and I. I met him in school. We worked at Timely Comics together. And then we went to DC together, and Charlie [Gaines] hired us both. But Frank kind of drifted on. Later he went back to Marvel, and Stan was operating it, so I didn’t see him anymore. He was brilliant.

Going Commando Infantino penciled both these stories for the Simon-&-Kirby-produced Boy Commandos #34 (July-Aug. 1949), although the identities of the scripter and inker are unknown. Thanks to Rod Beck for both scans. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

15

A Man’s Tomb Is His “Castle” Carmine with veteran inker Joe Giella, a couple of decades back—plus the “Batman” splash (left) from Detective Comics #329 (July 1964), on which they had collaborated. Script by John Broome. Thanks to Doug Martin.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

DA: You had a real sense of immediacy to your work. Did you ever learn anything, good or bad or indifferent, from the inkers?

INFANTINO: When I inked myself, I didn’t need as much penciling, you know. No one does, which is obvious, but I enjoyed the other more, actually, the penciling. But then, every once in a while, I needed a kick and I would get it, you know, I’d do some inking. Not very much. I think I did maybe a dozen stories for DC. DA: Well, I know you did two regular features that you inked yourself.

You did “Elongated Man” and “Space Museum.”

INFANTINO: And I did the other one, “Detective Chimp.” That was probably my favorite.

DA: Obviously, things started to change in the ’50s. Most of the superheroes were gone.

INFANTINO: This guy [Senator Estes] Kefauver came in. He was running for President, and he needed a cause. And we were the cause. He picked on comics, the crime, the violence of this or that.

So comics got hit hard, because of Bill Gaines’ books. They threw his oldest books off the stand. He couldn’t even make a living with those things. And we were doing Westerns, romance, sciencefiction, anything, just to keep going. We even had to take page cuts.

They called us all in—Alex and myself and Joe—and said “We’re going to give you page cuts.” You have no choice. You accept it.

DA: Did you like the variety of the different stories you did?

INFANTINO: I didn’t care. I just wanted to keep working. It was a rough times in those days, you know.

“Chimp” Change For a time, editor Julie Schwartz indulged Carmine by letting him ink his pencils on the “Detective Chimp” feature in The Adventures of Rex the Wonder Dog, as per #19 (Jan.-Feb. 1955). Script by John Broome. Thanks to Doug Martin. Infantino aficionados tend to prefer his inking to that of most others over his work, though some of his later “Chimp” efforts were embellished by other hands. [TM & © DC Comics.]

16

Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

DA: But did the variety give you a broader sense of subject in terms of being able to draw different subjects?

once he approved that, he never looked in the camera once, which was a classic way to work.

INFANTINO: Yeah, that was the important part. Shelly used to push that on us constantly: “Do everything. Learn to do everything.” Which we did, you know? And it was worthwhile. It paid off, I think.

DA: Watching the movies, did you break down the story different than, say, someone else would in terms of the way you would put it together?

DA: Yeah, different subjects require different emotional value.

INFANTINO: Right. And we were fans of films, you know, Joe, Alex, even Irwin. And we’d go see Hitchcock, a big favorite. We loved his stuff. Carol Reed. I love Reed’s work. The Third Man was incredible.

DA: How much of this stuff, in terms of pacing, in terms of how you lay out a panel, relates to film?

INFANTINO: I studied Hitchcock. I used to take his films—I’d rent them at times, and now it’s even easier. But in those days I’d go sit in the movie house four or five hours, all day long, sit through a film four or five times…. People thought I was nuts, but I thought he was genius for this stuff. He was the simplest, clearest, you know.

DA: He always worked from storyboards.

INFANTINO: In fact, I heard he storyboarded the whole film. And

“We’re Looking For People Who Like To Draw—The Flash!”

This double-page spread by Carmine gave an art lesson to young readers in The Flash Annual #1 (Summer 1963). [TM & © DC Comics.]

INFANTINO: Yeah, yeah. I look for the flash points on how a director would handle the thing when they brought the character in, like a Western where the guy’s coming in and you see how [director John] Ford would do it. I’d watch him, and then George Stevens. I remember the wonderful Shane. And I said, “My God Almighty!”

But they all broke down very simply. They were very direct and to the point, and that’s how I try to work. So that was a big influence for me.

Alex and Frank Giacoia were constantly in movie houses, too.

[Alex] would get his mother to make these big hero sandwiches, and we’d go sit in the movie house all day long. We’d go at 12:00.

You only paid a dime in those days. So we sat there all day long.

And then we’d go home and study and get on the phone with each other about what we saw. But I would make sketches in the theatre, you know, and watch the way they would break down the film.

DA: What’d you do with all that stuff?

INFANTINO: Gone. Everything’s gone. Even the comics are gone that I had. I haven’t saved one comicbook.

DA: So those were kind of formative years in terms of developing your style and your talent. You got to the point, let’s say in the mid-’50s, where

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

17

you really knew what you wanted to do and you could get it done…. Were there any challenges left for you at that point?

INFANTINO: Yeah. At one point I was drawing pretty; my style was not the way it was toward the end. It was very realistic, and it was bothering me. I just didn’t have enough there. And I went back and I studied it again with the School of Visual Arts. I took this guy, and he was strictly a designer, so he really broke me down. It took me about a year and a half; my work was getting awful at DC. They were complaining. They didn’t know what the hell was going on, but they rode it out with me, you know? And then I made the transition from that to the style I had at the end. It paid off. Of course, it was my own. I was comfortable with that. The other I wasn’t comfortable with.

DA: I used to pick up your original pages from The Flash and some of the Mystery in Space pages. I noticed you do a lot of sketching on the backs [of pages].

INFANTINO: It was like a ballplayer warming up….

I’d work at home and I’d start about 11, 12:00, and I’d sit there, turn the page over, and put two to three hours in just sketching, just drawing, whatever. Houses, people, whatever I thought. And then, when I felt my hand was flexible enough, I did my page. I’d do two a day. So the day would end about 2 or 3 in the morning. It was a long day, you know.

DA: Were there any specific influences from, say, architecture, like Frank Lloyd Wright?

INFANTINO: I wanted to be an architect, but I couldn’t afford to go to college and go on with that. So I pushed it into the comics.

Sketch Me If You Can! Carmine’s pencil sketches from the back of a page he drew for DC’s Mystery in Space #85 (Aug. 1963). Thanks to Mangus. [© Estate of Carmine Infantino.]

DA: I noticed a lot of futuristic cities were built on Lloyd Wright.

INFANTINO: Oh, absolutely. He was a strong influence.

DA: Did you ever follow any kind of futurist like Paolo Soleri or any of those?

INFANTINO: Yes. I like Soleri very much. And he did that great city out in Arizona. Arcosanti. Yeah…. He also shocked me with Kobashi and his buildings in North Africa. You know, you think of North Africa as this sullen, dull place, and then you see these magnificent structures. It’s like, where the hell are these coming from?

carefully, you see the baseball player’s arms go back and the caption in silhouette, and then the actual picture. You see the arms follow through.

DA: You used to like doing little vignettes, with hands or faces as introduction or exit pieces, devices to get readers to go to other places.

Where did that come from?

DA: So did you have a big swipe file?

INFANTINO: I remember reading comics as a kid, and the big caption at the beginning I would never read. That’s where it started.

I [figured] if I didn’t read it, they’re not reading mine, either. So what I did, I developed these areas. Number one, I used the little hands pointing all over the place. I used heads, the little cities, whatever, just to bring the reader in. Once you got them in, then you got them hooked. That was the whole idea.

INFANTINO: I did. On buildings, costumes, you had to have [swipes] in those days, because you had to do everything. We didn’t have time to go to the library, back and forth, back and forth….

DA: Did any of the writers ever come to you and say, “You know, I never thought about the fact that no one reads my text”?

DA: You didn’t have any favorite characters you enjoyed doing, right?

INFANTINO: No, not a word. Never.

DA: What did someone like your editor say? Julie?

INFANTINO: No, no. I didn’t like the super-heroes. That’s a hell of a thing to admit, but I didn’t like doing them. They were a little flamboyant for me. I liked the mystery stuff. The thing I did called The Phantom Stranger. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed “Detective Chimp.”

It was very light and airy, you know.

“Strange Sports Stories”… I got a kick out of that one. That was a tough one to handle. When I went in, Julie said to me, “We want this book to look different and do something different.” That’s the way he threw things at me. So what I did, I used the captions to begin an action and the picture to end in action. If you look at them

INFANTINO: Julie never said anything. If I ever asked him, “What do you think of the job?” he’d say, “You got paid, didn’t you?”

That was his reaction, period. I would create covers and he’d write stories around them. That’s how this whole thing began with covers for me.

DA: Obviously, covers are the thing that sell the book, and a lot of times you realize that a cover has a good strong idea behind it. That is essential, that a reader can be drawn in. It’s an impulse…. And obviously you ended up doing a huge amount of covers. Only a handful of people did the covers.

Did you think about that in terms of your value to the company?

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Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

Strange Sports Silhouettes The first two pages of an Infantino-penciled, Anderson-inked, Broomescripted yarn for the “Strange Sports Stories” series in The Brave and the Bold—this one for issue #46 (Feb.-March 1961). The feature wasn’t popular enough to carry its own eponymous title for long, but it has its enthusiasts—and Carmine evidently enjoyed doing “shadow drawings” in the captions as an experiment in adding a feeling of movement to the tales. Thanks to Jim Ludwig & Jim Kealy. [TM & © DC Comics.]

INFANTINO: Well, at the beginning, I just needed to work, because Julie would say, “Give me a cover, and I’ll get a story written for you.” So if I didn’t do it, I didn’t get any work. So I just kept doing cover after cover after cover. But then I got more to do.

I’d get them from Murray [Boltinoff], I’d get them from [Jack] Schiff, and something new was going on. Why did he just give me covers?

What happened was, the Batman craze was on, you know, with the TV show and with all the licensing artwork I was doing. And I’d get maybe 50 or 100 bucks for a drawing. They’d use it all over the place. “Hey,” I said, “What’s going on here?” So they try to pacify me. Give me a couple of bucks here and there.

I said, “The hell with this!” I called up [Stan] Lee and he says, “Sure, come on over. I’ll give you 5000 more than you’re making now.” DC was getting swamped by Marvel at the time… getting killed. So I said, “Let me talk to Uncle Jack.” That’s [co-publisher] Jack Liebowitz. And then [Paul] Levitz called me and said, “Come and have lunch with me.” And I did. And he said, “You know, Irwin

Can We Spell “Iconic,” Boys And Girls?

This Batman and Robin pose drawn by Infantino, as inked by Anderson, has become one of the most-reproduced images ever of the Dynamic Duo. Here it’s seen as a poster, but it’s also been the cover of a tabloid-size comicbook, a hardcover book, etc. This is definitely one they should’ve given Carmine and Murphy a few extra bucks for! [TM & © DC Comics.]

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

[Donenfeld, DC co-publisher] wants you to be the art director.” So I said, “Yeah, I know about it.” And he said, “What do you think?”

I said, “Well, it’s a good idea. It can’t hurt.” He said, “You don’t sound very enthusiastic.” I said, “Look, if you don’t give me the work, they’re waiting for me across town, so I really don’t care.” He gave me the job then….

DA: Obviously, you’ve been an artist for a long time…. Did you pay that much attention to the business side of it before that?

INFANTINO: Yeah, yeah. I watched what was going on. And I got to know Jack and Irwin quite well, and Irwin would give me little tips at the time on this or that. He broke me into understanding how the distributors work. And then, after I became art director, he took me on the road with him, which was very important, you know.

And you’d see how these guys [distributors, retailers, etc.] treated comics in those days…. You had to pay off guys. All kinds of things went on. Sometimes you’d give them three, 400 books, maybe ten would get out. And they had all kinds of systems. One guy in St. Louis was giving all the comics to the schools over there, and they were putting plaques up for him. We were getting killed with the sales, so we had a big fight with him. We had to make him stop or get out, do something. But I learned from [Irwin Donenfeld], which was good. He made me go on the road. It was terrific.

19

DA: Irwin called you in his office and said there’s something going on….

INFANTINO: Yeah, he said. “Something big is going on. Just keep quiet. You want to take a vacation a couple of weeks or something?

Good.” I said, “No, I’ll stay here. I don’t care. I don’t have to pay attention to what’s going on.” And then we found out that it was Kinney. At that time they were called Kinney National. They were a cleaning service… funeral cars. Car parts. Cash flow: that’s what they were looking for from the distribution…. Yeah, I heard lots of stories.

DA: When everything kind of settled down, Irwin called you in. What happened?

INFANTINO: I was still the art director. And then Irwin had a big fight with Kinney. I don’t know what the hell happened. And he quit. He just walked out. And Jack [Liebowitz] walked in one day

And I got to know the men on the road and know how you had to work with them. Most of the distributors were tough. They couldn’t care less. They never liked comics, you know; there was no money in it. They wanted Playboy.

That’s all they cared about. So we got our foot in the door, because of Playboy, since we were connected in the same company.

DA: Distributing margins is not much on books. Most people in [the comics] business think about the art, the stories, and all the content… but distribution is key to everything.

INFANTINO: It was the whole key. And sometimes the road men that we had, you’d call them and they didn’t know whose [comic]books were whose. We’d ask them for a list of our books. “And who are you?” This is our own road man…. So I insisted, when I took over, that they come in once a year, and I hammered away at them: “These are the books. These are what you got to sell. You got to push!”

They didn’t like me, but I couldn’t care less.

DA: Who put the checkerboards [the Go-Go Checks] on there?

INFANTINO: That was a guy named Sol Harrison. It was a bad time to put them on, because the books were sinking at that time and Marvel was killing DC. When I saw that, I said, “You’re burying yourself with those things.”

DA: Were you involved in any of the negotiations when Kinney came in and bought DC? INFANTINO: No, no, no. I didn’t even know what was going on. I knew something was going on in the office, because I could see these guys going back and forth. But then there was a piece in The New York Times that said “Kinney Buys Batman.” And that was like a trigger. Bob Kane was in with his lawyer, and [claimed] he owned the character, apparently. So Liebowitz gave him a million bucks for the thing. For a period of 50 years… 50,000 a year for 20 years. But that I had heard about. Jack told me about it. They bought him off that way. Otherwise the whole deal would have collapsed.

Check This Out! Carmine says that the “Go-Go Checks” atop each DC issue dated from February 1967 through July ’67 were the “inspiration” of the company’s production head (and future president) Sol Harrison. Here, an Infantino-Anderson cover (The Flash #171, June ’67) sported them. Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

and says, “You’re running it now.” And that was it, period. It was that simple.

DA: And you became publisher?

INFANTINO: No, no, I became editor. Then, when the guys from Kinney came in, they went around and checked up on everyone’s job…. And one guy asked me what I did. When I gave him a rundown, he says, “Jesus Christ, I’d need about five guys to do that.” Then they made me the publisher, and then later on the president of the company.

DA: Did your responsibility to the company change in terms of what you needed to do?

INFANTINO: My concerns got heavier, because now I had to worry about the bottom line…. Then I brought in people I wanted to work with me. I brought in Joe Orlando, Joe Kubert. I got rid of some people that were kind of lying around like dogs, doing

Joe Orlando Although he had never really before been a writer or editor, the artist proved himself an excellent editor of “mystery” titles for DC. In this 1964 photo he was still a freelance artist, doing a few issues of Marvel’s Daredevil. Thanks to Shaun Clancy.

nothing, and we kind of revitalized the whole business. You know, we gave it a good shot in the arm. And something else I did that I noticed they never did before me: Liebowitz used to always keep his door closed.

He’d go in and close that door and nobody’d ever see him. So I kept my door open. And any artist, any writer, anybody could come in any time they wanted, sit, bitch, gripe, whatever they want to do. It didn’t matter. And it worked. I also established a coffee room where the freelancers could go and talk amongst themselves and look at artwork together. And that helped stimulate things, too. It was a different approach.

DA: What happened to Jack Liebowitz?

INFANTINO: He wasn’t running it any longer. They just had a sort of a coup one day and he was gone. They couldn’t get rid of him—he had so much stock in the company—so they gave him an office over in 75 Rock and he played pinochle all day long. He may be still doing it, for all I know. He still goes.

DA: 94, 90 [years old].

INFANTINO: He’s amazing, man. I tell you, though, he was very straight. Jack didn’t fool around. His word was his word.

That was great, you know? And that’s something else he told me. He said, “If you promise somebody something, do it and that’s it.”

DA: John Broome told me a funny story. He said he tried to get the four or five [main] writers to band together to say, “Listen, if we don’t get a pay raise, we’re leaving here. We’re going to stop writing for you and then you’re going to have to go find someone.” It took him like months to get everyone to say the same thing. Finally, they got a meeting with Jack Liebowitz, and Jack had heard about it in the meantime. So he had them come in. And just before [John’s] going to say something, Jack says, “I want to thank you all for coming here. I just want to let you know the good news. You’re getting a pay raise.”

INFANTINO: He nailed him.

DA: He’s great. How tall is Liebowitz?

INFANTINO: He’s quite tall.

Yeah, he’s a little shorter than I am, but very erect. A very classylooking guy. I had a lot of respect for him. I liked him.

DA: And the thing is, he is one of the few guys who’s been here since day one. I mean, he was there when [the whole thing started].

House Of Mastery While he was art director (or was it editorial director?), Infantino continued to lay out some fantastic covers for DC—but now for a lot more comics than he himself could ever have drawn. Here, his cover layout was finished by Joe Orlando for House of Mystery #174 (May-June 1968), when that horror/mystery mag was ushered into a new and gutsier approach to “mystery.” Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

INFANTINO: He was the accountant for [Harry] Donenfeld…. And then Donenfeld made him a partner because he was doing so well with the books. And then they began buying other properties. But he began as the accountant, not as

Jack Liebowitz in his heyday.

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

They Had Him Covered—Sometimes!

These inside-front-cover house ads from New Adventure Comics #27 & 28 (cover-dated June & July 1938) demonstrate exactly how convinced DC was that the lead “Superman” feature was what would sell the new title Action Comics –in other words, not at all, since the Man of Tomorrow is not so much as mentioned on that of #2. The Action covers are credited to Joe Shuster and Leo O’Mealia, respectively. Thanks to Mitchell Senft. [TM & © DC Comics.]

the owner…. He’s been around since the days they took over from [Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson] in 1936, ’37, and he’s still around.

So, if he can remember it, he must have some great stories to tell. He should have his take on Siegel and Shuster, which would be different from Siegel’s. You’re never going to get the real story out of these things, you know?

DA: And the thing is, I asked Vince Sullivan [late-’30s DC editor]….

INFANTINO: Yeah, well, now he claims he knew it when he saw the strip “Superman” for the books. He says, “Well, I saw, I knew immediately.” It’s not true. It was on the shelf for months.

DA: Irwin said he thinks that Shelly [Mayer] is the one who picked it up.

INFANTINO: Well, I know it was on the shelf, and they had a space in the book. “I don’t know what the hell to put in it.” So [somebody] said, “What about that thing that those kids brought in, that super-thing?” And they put it in, but I don’t even think they used it on the cover the first time.

DA: First issue they put him on the cover. But for the first eight or ten

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issues, they didn’t know what was going on… until they figured out that [“Superman”] was actually the lead feature.

INFANTINO: Right. This thing [Action Comics] is going up and up and up, and what’s going on? And they suddenly realized what they had. And then, of course, they called Kane in to do “The Batman.” They wanted another character. And then they bought out [M.C.] Gaines… [he had] a bunch of books, didn’t he? They finally bought All-American Comics from him. He [Donenfeld] merged them at that point.

DA: Yeah, though I think they had a relationship even before that.

INFANTINO: Oh yeah. I used to [work for both companies. DC was printing and distributing [Gaines’] stuff. Remember, they always had the distribution company going, Independent News.

That was the money cash cow there…. And then [Liebowitz] took a while before he bought Mad. He tried to buy Mad a long time.

Then the other thing with the union: what he did with [writer] Arnold Drake. [Drake] was going to represent all the writers…. He wanted to start a union, so they walked in. He was ready for a big fight, and Jack didn’t fight. He said, “I’ll tell you what I’ll do. Go get [Marvel publisher Martin] Goodman to join, and I’ll do it right away.” And Goodman did the same thing, so he sent him back and forth. It was a joke.

DA: Once you became publisher, obviously you were much more involved in a lot of different levels. Did you start dealing with merchandising or films and television, that kind of thing?

INFANTINO: Yeah. That’s when these boys came in from France

22

Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

one day. Saw the Salkinds… father and son. They were interested in Superman. And we discussed the numbers, and we got some pretty good numbers out of them. I think it was half a million up front, 7.5% of gross. Not net…. The boys upstairs didn’t even think the movie’s going to happen, you know? But these guys were clever what they did. They buy names to put the movie together. In those days, if you had the right names, you’d get the money for the film.

So they got [Mario] Puzo [author of The Godfather], who was pretty hot in those days, and Mario came in and he sat down with me, and the first story he wrote was about some guys who were trying to kill the Pope and Superman saves him. That’s not a “Superman” story.

“What the hell are you guys doing?” So I went upstairs and I had a big fight about it, and they sent me out to the Coast, and we sat in the Beverly Hills Hotel and we banged out Superman I & II…. That’s what came out of it. But it worked well.

DA: I was going to say, the first two pictures are the best.

INFANTINO: Yeah, they were. The rest was junk after that. Mario was brilliant, by the way, a terrific guy.

DA: But he didn’t know anything about the comicbook business when he started.

INFANTINO: Well, no, that’s not true. He worked many years ago for Marvel Comics. I found that out later. One day when we were having dinner at the Polo Lounge, he told me he used to be an editor over there. I was a little shocked. I said, “On comics?” “No, no,” he said, “on their pulps.” They had pulps, too, in those days.

So he worked as an editor and a writer on their pulps. He was quite a bright guy…. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Puzo, of course, had worked for the “magazine” side of Magazine Management, the parent company that then owned Marvel Comics.]

DA: Did you extend the merchandising license on the key characters? I mean, did you make a big push on it at all during the time you were there?

INFANTINO: Sure, we tried…. But it was Jack’s nephew that ran that department. Jack gave that whole thing, the licensing, to his nephew, Jay Emmett. So he walked into a gold mine… especially

Carmine & Ilya Salkind II reunited to talk over “old times” at the Metropolis (Illinois) Superman festival in June 2000—some 22 years after the first big-budget Superman film whose sigil-sporting poster intrigued audiences in 1978.

[Ad TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders; Superman symbol TM & © DC Comics.]

when Batman was on TV. He literally handed it to him, and he started a company with it. And then he eventually sold that company to Warner.

We sold Independent News, DC Comics, and licensing corporations… one package… to the Kinney Company.

DA: Were you there when Kinney became Seven Arts, and Seven Arts became Warner?

Mario Puzo in 1966—not long before the publication of his blockbuster novel The Godfather.

INFANTINO: Well, we were working with them when we saw these guys come in very quietly, sit down at the end there. And they were going over the books of Warner Bros., but we didn’t know they were buying Warners. The [moving] picture business was not doing well in those days. They were making money mostly on TV. You remember the films were in the dumper…. And Jack said, “No, we’re not going to do it.” But they voted him out, you know. Right after that. I think Jack was giving them an awful lot of trouble and he was pushed out of DC. We walked in one day and he was out.

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

They brought in a guy named Mark Iglesias in to replace him.

They moved fast in those days. Then Mark himself was replaced a little later on….

They [Kinney] were going to put in a time clock for the artists and the people in the office. I said, “You’re crazy. It isn’t that kind of a business. We don’t sell funeral parlors here,” so we talked them out of it….

DA: So they didn’t equate the fact that they were a movie company with talent, with a comicbook company.

INFANTINO: They had no use for the comics.

DA: Did they think that they were at least creating entities that could be used?

INFANTINO: [Time Warner CEO] Steve Ross himself… claimed later he bought it because of Batman. He hated the comics. One time, when we moved to 75 Rock, one of the people said they had space in the window downstairs: “We’d like to put some of our licensed product in the window for show.” Ross came by in his car and saw this and he was screaming, “Get that garbage out of my windows!” This is the guy who alleges he loved comics.

23

You know, there’s a lot of crap…. He bought the company for the distribution… the cash cow….

DA: Magazine distribution is a big business.

INFANTINO: It was, in the ’50s and ’60s. I think it’s dying now. I think it’s gone. I look at Playboy. It went from 7 million to… was it 350,000? Now that and the comics are dying, too. I think the glory days are over.

DA: Yeah. Over the course of the last ten or fifteen years, a lot of American comics have started to mimic the European comics.

INFANTINO: Oh, yeah, I know. But it’s a whole different world over there.

DA: And they also sell at a higher price point.

INFANTINO: Yeah, but I also noticed that whatever was hot here was not so in Europe, for some reason. I can never figure that out.

DA: My theory is that in the United States they pick a hero or a character, and all the stuff is built around that character. And in Europe, they pick a story and they build around that story. And either one book or three books

From The Fabulous ’50s We’re happy to read this transcription of Carmine’s 1999 interview with David Armstrong—but when it comes to visuals, we’d just as soon show you some of the work that had built the artist’s career even before the Showcase “Flash” came on the scene in mid-1956: his cover for Strange Adventures #9 (June 1951), which introduced the mutant super-hero Captain Comet only a few months after the demise of DC’s hero-studded All-Star Comics (inker uncertain)… and his full-art job on a sciencefiction tale from Strange Adventures #50 (Nov. 1954), as scripted by Otto Binder. Thanks, respectively, to the GCD and Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

is devoted to that story, and that’s it. The character may end up becoming an integral part of the story, but that’s what they sell, not the character.

And all the U.S. stuff is character-driven.

flood away and you push the other guy off. So he retreats, takes books off. Well, I wouldn’t do it. Every book [Marvel] put out, I matched them book for book. It cost us both a lot of money.

INFANTINO: And themes like Westerns were always big in Europe. It didn’t work here. We couldn’t sell it here. Tarzan did sensational in Europe when we took it over. It didn’t do that well for us. We were doing that for the European market. because we owned the overseas stuff, too.

So, when they called us in, I think we had lost about a million bucks, and they want to know why. And I told them, “What do you think we should have done?” They said, “We think you should have just kept backing off.” I said, “We would have been dead. We’d be off the shelf.” “Well, that’s your opinion.” And I said, “Well, I think it’s best we end this situation now.” And that was it….

DA: They’re very interested in historical subjects. And nothing like that [works in the U.S.]. Brave and Bold started out with Robin Hood and Silent Knight. [But it didn’t sell] until you started doing “Justice League”….

Why did you leave DC? INFANTINO: We had a big argument the year before I left. We made about a million bucks; that’s just publishing. We did pretty well the next year. Marvel Comics had decided they were going to push us off the stands. This was something that we did to Dell many years ago, and you do it by flooding [the market]. You really

DA: Was there a sense of satisfaction that you had done the best job possible?

INFANTINO: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I was happy with what I’d done.

Well, you get [sales figures] in periods, you know… you get the first month, and you get six months. Then, a year later, that’s when your final numbers come in. But you could be living off a number you think is so great about the third month, and you find out it was a dog at the end. It’s a very tough business, but you got to ride it out….

Where The Deer And The Antelope (Not To Mention The Ape-man) Play Maybe Westerns were fairly dead in the comicbook market during Infantino’s 1960s-70s reign, and the critically acclaimed Bat Lash lasted only seven issues (above is the Nick Cardy cover for #1, Oct-Nov. 1968, quite possibly laid out by Carmine himself)—but the Tarzan title that DC took over from Dell/Western in 1972 lasted a quite respectable 52 issues, starting out with story & editing by Joe Kubert and closing out with this cover for #258 (Feb. 1977) by Alfredo Alcala.

Courtesy of the GCD. [Bat Lash cover TM & © DC Comics; Tarzan cover TM & © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

25

DA: Did your relationship change with either the editors, writers, or artists?

INFANTINO: I don’t think so, because I’m still friends with some of the boys. Orlando until he died. Kubert is still very close. Nick Cardy… we’re still close.

DA: When you were a publisher, you obviously had different responsibilities in that position.

INFANTINO: They changed, but still we were friendly. I mean, there was an open door to walk in and talk and kid around. I always had that. We never let go of that. I felt it was important to have this community thing with us, you know?

DA: Does Julie still tell the same stories today?

INFANTINO: Oh, God help us. He was not fun to work with. He was not fun at all, you know? And he was strictly a company guy… or Julie lived for Julie. As I said, you bring in a job and instead of patting a guy on a head and saying, “Gee, that’s great”: “You got paid, didn’t you?”

DA: Well, I’m sure he had favorites…. And, you know, you’re not going to overcome that.

Ultimately, your work is judged on how good it was from artistic merit and how well it sold commercially. And I think at a certain point you probably just have to be able to live with the fact that some guys are hard to get along with. .

INFANTINO: I didn’t pay much attention to what he’d say or do, you know. But many guys got upset. You know, they’re sensitive to this stuff…. I couldn’t have cared less, you know? In fact, if he got on my nerves, I took off on a trip. We’d get away for a couple of months.

DA: Well, he obviously liked your work. He kept giving it to you. You did The Flash.

INFANTINO: I think I was with him about 30 years as an artist. Flash, “Adam Strange,” all the romance, Western, whatever.

“A Long Time Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away…”

I did some work for [Bob] Kanigher, too.

After Carmine departed DC in the mid-1970s, he worked primarily first for Warren Publications, then for You know, he was tougher to work for, but he Marvel. He is particularly noted for a fine run of issues of the licensed Star Wars comic for the latter, such as was much more creative, I thought, in terms of this story from #48 (June 1981), inked by Carlos Garzaon and scripted by Larry Hama. [TM & © Disney.] story. He was very sharp. When Julie edited a story from a writer, he’d edit it to death. And “Oh, my God.” I wasn’t thrilled about the idea. But he said, “Bob he was predictable. You read his scripts—they’re all pretty much the did the script,” and he gave me his script. And Bob even laid out same, you know? the very first cover, what he wanted, you know. That I know is fact DA: I hear Kanigher was one of the best writers.

INFANTINO: And the most creative. One of the most creative guys. He created characters for that company. Boy, it was unbelievable. He did the war books—and then he did The Metal Men. It was a great idea. He created “Enemy Ace.” Terrific. This guy was brilliant. Absolutely.

And he created The [Silver Age] Flash. I know there’s lots of stories going around, but all I remember is going in for a job and Julie said, “We’re going to be doing super-heroes again.” And I said,

because I was there, and that was the kickoff of all the super-heroes that came after.

DA: I remember Kubert inked your job on that. How many times did Joe Kubert ink your work?

INFANTINO: About two years before, we did a job for St. John. It was called Jesse James. I penciled it in one day, the whole book, and when I told [Joe] about it, he says, “I can [ink] it in a day.” “I don’t think so, Joe.” He did. He didn’t even put borders on the damn thing. It was very funny….

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Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

No Flash In The Pan! Whatever lack of joy Infantino may have expressed about working for editor Julie Schwartz (who himself had to work for Carmine for years starting in the latter 1960s, remember!), the two of them produced some classically fine work together.

(Left:) The second appearance of Captain Cold, in The Flash #114 (June 1960), with inks by Murphy Anderson & script by John Broome. Thanks to Doug Martin.

(Below:) The Flash #123 (Sept. 1961) had introduced the intriguing “Earth-Two” concept and heralded the return of the Golden Age Flash. This re-creation by Infantino of its fabled cover was inked by Frank McLaughlin. Thanks to Michael Dunne. [TM & © DC Comics.]

The Real McComic The actual printed Carmine Infantino/Murphy Anderson cover of The Flash #123. Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“It was A Tough, Tough Way To Make A Living”

27

again. It takes a long time to sit down and do it. I just don’t enjoy it anymore.

DA: You never painted or did watercolors.

INFANTINO: Oh, I did watercolors as a kid. I did watercolors…. I have a couple at home…. But to this day, I have none of my work on the walls at home.

DA: Do you think being publisher kind of phased you out of that in your business?

INFANTINO: I think so. I think so. Or, I think I’d just had it. You know, there’s a watermark you reach, and you feel, that’s it. I can’t do more with this, you know? And that’s what happened with me. I didn’t feel I had much more to say with the pencil, and why be redundant?.... I’m not unhappy about it. I’ve got more important things to do now. Go to a gym.

Robert Kanigher

“I Got A House That’s A Showcase…”

The cover of the epoch-launching Showcase #4 (Sept.-Oct. 1956) was seen back on p. 11 of this issue... the splash page of the origin on p. 3. Penciler Carmine Infantino, inker Joe Kubert, and editor Julius Schwartz were reunited on a Flash panel at Joe Petrilak’s fabulous comics convention in White Plains, NY, in 2000. Photo courtesy of Craig Shutt.

DA: Did you ever get in a competitive situation like that with any of the people you work with?

INFANTINO: I think we respected each other. It wasn’t that there was a competition. We all wanted to do better, but we still liked each other. We socialized, we horsed around together. We had fun times. And we still get together now and again. I have lunch with [Kubert] now. Every once in a while he comes into town.

DA: Did you ever work with Mike Sekowsky?

INFANTINO: Yeah. I knew Mike quite well. I made him an editor at one point on Wonder Woman, and he was a tough cookie to work with. A strange man. His wife, many years ago, took off with his two daughters. He never got over that. And he drank like a bandit. And fast—yeah! Oh, he was brilliant. He could imitate Kirby better than Kirby….

DA: Did you work for St. John on a regular basis?

INFANTINO: No, just once in a while. Kubert did 3-D books with them. Do you remember those 3-D books? Joe was prolific.

He’s terrific. I have a lot of respect for Joseph.

DA: He’s still working. Do you ever think about drawing?

INFANTINO: No, I don’t want to do it anymore. I’ve said all I could say with the drawing. I really have nothing more to say…. I don’t draw at all. Oh, I have to do a re-creation now and

Strange As It Seems Even as the “Flash” series was moving into high gear, Infantino continued to provide first-class artwork to DC’s science-fiction comics under Julie Schwartz. Seen here is his splash page from Mystery in Space #36 (Feb.-March 1957), with inks by Bernard Sachs and script by Otto Binder. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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Carmine Infantino Speaks About Being Artist, Writer, Editorial Director, & Publisher

DA: You got any favorite remembrances of the comics? I mean, obviously you were in the business for a long time. You started as a very, very young guy… literally in your mid-teens.

INFANTINO: It was a very lonely business. You work all alone for hours on end and you get strange machinations in your head, because you think about the world outside. You’re really not a part of it. Your world is a fantasy world you’re creating on paper, you know? And then once a week you deliver this stuff and [the editor would say], “Thank you, goodbye, and good luck. Go back home again.” It was a tough, tough way to make a living. It still is, I think, very solitary.

Carmine Infantino was interviewed at length for Alter Ego #10.

Infantino & Friends We figured we’d close with a color image of Carmine, flanked by two of his most famous penciled cover layouts: for DC Special #1 (Oct.-Dec. 1968), which depicted the artist with many of the DC heroes he had drawn by that time—and a depiction of the Golden and Silver Age Flashes in a dead-heat race, cheered on by their Justice League and Justice Society peers. The photo is courtesy of Mark Evanier, from his superinformative website newsfromme.com. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician” JOE KUBERT As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature Interview Conducted by David Armstrong

A/E

Transcribed by Alex Grand

EDITOR’S NOTE: This one is very special to me, because Joe Kubert has been my favorite artist since I was four or five years old, devouring his “Hawkman” stories in Flash Comics and All-Star Comics—never even rivaled by any other comicbook illustrator except Jack Kirby. What more can I say? Here is David Armstrong’s 1997 conversation with Joe….

JOE KUBERT: From the earliest times that I can remember… and I guess my family, my mother and father, have verified, very often… I started to draw as soon as I could hold a pencil.

I was maybe two or three years old. And that’s not unusual. I

Joe Kubert drew several iconic comicbook heroes at various times in his career, including The Flash and Tor the Hunter; but especially celebrated among Golden and Silver Age fans are his stints on “Hawkman”—first in the 1940s, as exemplified by the splash page at left from Flash Comics #94 (April 1948); then in the 1960s, as per the splash that introduced the revived Winged Wonder in The Brave and the Bold #34 (Feb.-March 1961).

Scripts by Robert Kanigher (maybe) & Gardner Fox, respectively. Thanks to Al Dellinges & Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

think most people who do the kind of stuff that I do start rather early. It’s not something that you just like to do. It becomes a compulsion.

I had just a natural inclination towards what was then newspaper strips, newspaper comics… people who really inspired me to do this kind of work. And I come to admire them more and more as I get older, they get better. Guys like Hal Foster and Alex Raymond and Milt Caniff—these were the people who generated the kind of push and enthusiasm and what I wanted to do. I don’t know why. I’d look at their stuff, and God, it seemed to create a whole world, a different world around me completely. To me, Tarzan, as done by Foster, was a real person. I can even today remember the smell of the newspapers when I was reading that stuff. Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon appeared in the New York Journal American. It was a large-sized newspaper. And I remember, on a weekend, I could lay down on the floor and practically wrap the whole newspaper around me, so that it really did almost physically reflect a complete world.

MLJ, which was the forerunner of Archie Comics—they were on Canal Street in New York. I at that time lived in East New York, in Brooklyn, while I was attending school. All my buddies, the guys that I was with in school, kind of elevated me because I could draw. It’s almost like being a magician. Gee, I can take a pencil and draw a face and the other guys, my school chums, would be looking at me and saying, “Well, gee, I can’t do that. You can do it.” And so it put me at that level. But one of my buddies, as I mentioned before, was a relative to the MLJ group and said, “Hey, Joe, you do some really nice stuff. Why don’t you go up there and maybe do some work?”

And I try to emulate this stuff. I try to. These were the things that influenced me, but more than influenced me, kind of encouraged me to want to do that same kind of work. And I copied and drew their material and tried to get a feel….

I didn’t realize it, of course, at that time, but I guess I was analyzing what the heck was going on underneath the drawing by doing just that. I’ve loved being a cartoonist all my life, and I guess that’s the way I was introduced to it.

DAVID ARMSTRONG: Did you have specific favorites in terms of stories, books or feature films—in terms of style, the writing style and the visual style?

KUBERT: I loved Kipling, especially Jungle Book, Mowgli and the tiger Shere Khan and all of that.

I guess the correlation between that and Tarzan was something that I understood pretty early on. It was those kinds of adventure stories that kind of stimulated the imagination to want to draw these pictures. Yeah, I read a heck of a lot when I was in grammar school, going into junior high school and high school. I’d frequent the library, not so much to widen an education, but to see more stuff, to see physically, graphically, those things that perhaps at that age I couldn’t get to see firsthand. Looking at Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel and Rembrandt’s paintings and a whole slew of stuff was absolutely inspirational.

I realized very early on the gap between the kind of stuff that I was doing on the paper and the stuff that I was looking at, but it sure as hell was inspirational.

DA: How did you get into the business?

KUBERT: Well, I got into the business in a kind of a fortuitous fashion. I was in junior high school.

I guess I was about 11 years old at that time.

I’d always been doing the cartoons and doing drawings in school. And one of my buddies in junior high school at that time happened to be a nephew or a cousin, some sort of a relation, with some people that were producing comicbooks at that time.

Leapin’ Leopards!

Kubert loved both Mowgli and Tarzan. Seen above is an image of the black-&-white cover art for DC’s Tarzan #236 (April 1975), one of his best. Thanks to the online Palantine News Network site.

[TM & © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician”

31

And this was just at the very beginning, just at the very birth of comicbooks. “Superman” had just started, I guess…. I got a hunk of newspaper, and I put some drawings into it so they shouldn’t get messed up. And I took the subway into New York. As I say, I was about 11 years old, and the subways are a nickel at that time and they were absolutely safe, or my folks would never have let me get on it. And I went up there and I was greeted so warmly and so nicely by the people who were working up at this place.

There was a guy by the name of Harry Shorten who was sort of an editor and a writer up there. So this obnoxious 11-year-old kid comes up with a newspaper full of drawings. And I showed it to him. I was too naive and simple to be scared.

I mean, it was just something that I went ahead and did. And he was kind enough to allow me to get into this bullpen area where there were about three or four different artists. The first time I’d ever seen real live commercial-art cartoonists at work, because I didn’t know what kind of paper you used, or [what] pencil. I had just done sketches and pencils and so on. And he said, “Come on, kid, take a look around, and maybe these guys can give you a couple of clues.”

Holyoke, Cat-Man! This “Volton” story from Holyoke’s Cat-Man Comics #8 (Feb. 1942) is generally considered Joe Kubert’s first professional job. Thanks to Mike Bromberg & Comic Book Plus.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

And that actually is what occurred. It was at that time I met a guy by the name of Mort Meskin. Charlie Biro happened to be up there.

Guys who later on became my friends, people I worked with and so on and so forth. That was my first introduction into the business, and I fell into it just because I just went ahead and did it, not having any planning or forethought or any kind of inspirations or ideas that I was going to make a living at it. It never even entered my mind. It was just learning a little bit more and finding out what this whole thing was about. And every guy that I’d come across from that time on, like Will [Eisner] and other people, helped me. I don’t remember one time that anybody in my business ever turned their backs on me. When I may not have been dressed so well or had torn pants or my shoes were falling off or whatever, they were looking at my work, and they recognized the fact that I was really dedicated to what it was. I loved what I was doing, and it was evident with the work I showed them and my reaction to what they were telling me.

DA: Did you get a chance to see these artists more regularly and get a chance to have someone critique your work?

KUBERT: No, I didn’t even think they were critiquing my work or checking it over. It didn’t even enter my mind. And the only times I saw them was when I went up to the office. That first time that I went up was the beginning of it all for me, because after that, the editor let me watch the other artists work. He said, “Well, when you do some more drawings, kid, come on up and show it to me, and we’ll look at it again.” And so that’s the way it all occurred.

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Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

Messin’ Around With Meskin Joe’s first credit for an inking assist on the Mort Meskin-drawn “Vigilante” feature came in Action Comics #66 (Nov. 1943); script by Alvin Schwartz. He was also bylined on the likes of the “Johnny Quick” story for More Fun Comics #97 (May-June ’44); script by Don Cameron. Thanks to Art Lortie for both scans.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

Mort Meskin One of the Golden Age artistic greats, Meskin gave the young Joe Kubert his first break at DC.

Will Eisner The creator of The Spirit, too, gave Joe a helping hand.

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician”

33

DA: So when did you get your first check for your first piece of work?

KUBERT: I must have been about 12, 12½, because I had been consistently working for an editor by the name of Temerson. He was at Holyoke Publishing at that time. He was in an office the size of about a third of this room, and he was a publisher, kind and crazy enough to purchase a six-page story from me…. We very rarely wrote our own stuff. Usually they had a staff of writers, and I guess that resulted because there was a lot of work that had to be done. If you have one guy writing and then another guy who’s drawing, you get twice as much work done, because they’re both working at the same time, and the writer has an ability to put the stuff down on paper more quickly. The artist perhaps has an affinity more with the graphics and the drawing and gets a heck of a lot more work done. So, when I started out and for a long, long time afterwards, the writing was done by someone else. Mr. Temerson handed me a script: “Here, kid, take this home. You get

Partners In Time This photo of Joe Kubert (sitting) and Norman Maurer was published in such St. John comics as One Million Years Ago #1 and The Three Stooges #1 in 1953—but by then they had been friends and often partners for a full decade.

five bucks a page for it.” Wow! Five bucks a page. That was a lot of dough at that time.

It was almost more than my father made, so that was kind of the beginning. I was lucky enough to be able to learn on the job. I should have given him five bucks a page to print the goddamn stuff!

DA: Did working during your school years get in the way of doing schoolwork?

KUBERT: That’s a very good point. It’s a question that very few people ask, and it’s one that I don’t like to answer. But since all my kids are out of school, I can answer it honestly.

What happened was, I would go to school perhaps two days a week, three days a week.

The rest of the time I’d be either home working or I’d take off and use that time instead of going to school to make the rounds at the publishers. The transition from junior high school to high school, I started attending the High School of Music and Art, which was up on 135th Street in Manhattan, and I still lived in Brooklyn. It was about an hour and a half trip, but there [were] a lot of people I could see between 100 and 35th Street before I had to go home.

Lighting The “Sparks” One of Joe’s earliest pro assignments was a “Sparks Stevens” story for Blue Beetle #13 (Aug. 1942), when the title super-hero was in his Holyoke-published phrase, in between runs at Fox Comics.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

And I also came in contact at that time with a kid by the name of Norman Maurer, who eventually became my partner. We did a heck of a lot of work together. He and I would meet before the homeroom class and I would say, “Well, do we go to school today, or do we make the rounds?” There wasn’t even a question about it. We’d just kind of walk out of school and go down and go from place to place. And there were perhaps 20 different publishers around at that time, and we would hit every one of them, checking out to see if they’d see us or calling beforehand. Just knock on the door and say, “We’d like to show you our work. We’d like to get a job.” And like

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Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

I say, we were so naive and innocent and dumb that we didn’t realize that we should be afraid of what we were doing or [that] we should have any kind of temerity about it.

DA: Were there any places that were tough to crack, that took a long time to get the first job, even if you knew that that was your goal and that’s what you wanted to do?

KUBERT: As I say, there were about 20 all-around, but there were large ones. DC Superman Comics was around at that time, and that was the big nut to crack if we could ever get a job there. There were others, as there are today. I guess there were smaller companies where a guy could get a toehold and kind of learn on the job. Business in those years was really quite different from what it is today. At that time, they were putting out 64-page magazines for 10¢… so they could well afford to take ten of those pages and give them to a guy like me who knew absolutely nothing about what the heck he was doing. And just as a throwaway, they got the pages at a lower rate.

A much lower rate, of course. But it gave me a tremendous opportunity to learn what this whole thing was all about. That doesn’t exist today. There are perhaps 20 or 22 pages in a magazine. The rest of them carry ads. They can’t afford to give any of those pages to somebody just to test them out. It’s got to be the best stuff that they’re capable of getting.

For instance, Norm very early on started working on [Charles] Biro and [Bob] Wood crime comics, Daredevil, “Crimebuster,” and so on. He probably got to work earlier than I, that is, with a more of a solid routine. At that time, there was no assurance that you were going to keep on working. You did the first job and you brought it in. If the [editor] didn’t have a script for you, you started looking around someplace else to get the next story. There was nothing on a contractual basis. If Norm got a job, he took off in his direction to do his work. When I got a job, I would take off to do mine.

DA: So who gave you your first job at DC? KUBERT: My earliest jobs were mostly inking on somebody else’s work. I was fortunate enough later on that I had met, as I mentioned before, Mort Meskin, at the first office I came into. Later on, I was inking on the material that he was doing… “Vigilante” and “Johnny Quick” and things like that. I also did inking on Jack Kirby’s “Newsboy Legion.” I was lucky enough just to fall into those things, and naive enough not to be scared. When I sat down to ink on their work, I wasn’t intimidated by it for some strange, weird reason.

I recall vividly Mort Meskin pencils, which were absolutely fantastic. They were paintings in a pencil form, and I just blithely sat down and inked over his work, and he again was very kind. I’d ask him, I think I was maybe 15 or something at the time, “How am I doing? Am I ruining it? Can you tell me anything [about how] I can do this stuff a little better?” “No, kid, you’re doing this fine. Don’t worry about it.” They were just great.

DA: So you already were making a living when you graduated high school? Did you have a partner when you graduated high school?

KUBERT: No. The partnership I had with Norm started well after high school. it wasn’t anything formal at all. It was just that we just fell into that kind of a system. We liked being together. We liked working together. We liked knocking ideas off of one another. But if a job came up—

“The Fuehrer Of Suicide Slum!”

It’s impossible to be certain to which Simon & Kirby “Newsboy Legion” stories young Joe contributed some early inking, but A/E publisher John Morrow (who also edits a little magazine called The Jack Kirby Collector) suggests the following: “The Kirby Checklist says: ‘15-year-old Joe Kubert assists on inking on this title…. [Arturo] Cazeneuve is credited as inker for [the “Legion” stories in Star Spangled Comics] #15-19. Those would’ve been done in June-Sept. 1942 while Joe was still 15, and Joe and Jack were stockpiling work before leaving for WWII, so they would’ve been more likely to let a new kid do some work then.” Sounds to us like as close as we’re gonna get to pinning it down, John, so thanks for the info, and for the scan of a page from SSC #19 (April 1943). Scripter unknown. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician”

35

was going to do it.

I spoke to Norm and said, “What do you think about our maybe getting together? I have this contact with St. John Publishing Company. He seems to like what I’m doing. I think he’d like for me to [put together some books for him]. I think it would be a good idea if we could do this together.” Norm said, “Fine.” He came out to New York. We set the thing up. I lived in New Jersey at the time. He rented someplace in New Jersey and we went to work.

Joe Kubert in the mountains of southern Germany in the early 1950s, not long before his St. John days.

variety as you could for the publisher?

DA: And you did a lot of different subjects. I mean, you did 3-D, you did Tor, you did Stooges, “[Son of] Sinbad”…. Did you consciously try and do as much

KUBERT: When I got out of the Army, we knew that there was a lot of competition, a lot of titles on the newsstands. And so we were racking our brains to create some books that would look a little different from everything else. While I was stationed in Germany, when I was in the Army, I had come across a 3-D magazine with photographs, and it contained these red-and-green glasses.

One Million Years Ago—In September 1953!?

Kubert’s cover for One Million Years Ago #1 (Sept. 1953) for St. John Publishing Co. Two other issues of this series were published as issues of the 3-D Comics series, and three more were published afterward as regular color comics under the title of its primeval hero, Tor. By common consent, this is some of the greatest work of Joe’s long career. [TM & © Estate of Joe Kubert.]

But early on I would imagine that subconsciously it was as a result of what I saw with Will Eisner and what the heck he was doing early on. I felt that the way to go would be to have some sort of control over the stuff I was doing, so it could come out with some sort of regularity, and I could kind of tie up with someone so I could schedule books on a regular basis. That was when Norm and I were, I guess, about 18 or 19. We merged together and we started putting out some stuff. That was before I went into the Army.

DA: Norman had some family ties to help you get the business going.

KUBERT: Which was amazing. This was, of course, after I just skipped by World War II—during the Korean War. I was in from ’50 to ’52. Norm, however, had gotten caught at the tail end of World War II, and while he was out in California at a USO shindig, he met a red-haired girl that he fell in love with, who happened to be the daughter of Moe Howard, one of the Three Stooges. So he [Norm] had taken up residence in California.

We still kept in contact and we were still kind of dreaming of being able to work together at some time. When I finally got out of the Army, my wife and I took a kind of a vacation out to California, without any definite ideas about what I wanted to do or where I

And while we were talking when I had come home, I said, “Gee whiz, you know, it’d be great if we could create a 3-D comicbook so that the stories we do would seem to pop off the paper,” and we looked at each other. “Nah. How the hell are we going to do that?”…. And Norm had a brother, Lenny Maurer, who was more technically oriented than we. The three of us got together and we worked at it. We knew 3-D work could be done….

The trick was to do it so that it could be sold at a feasible price.

And that’s what we did work out and were able to put it together, including the insertion of glasses and selling the magazine for 25¢ a shot….

The deal that we had with [publisher Archer} St. John was to put together our magazines, publish whatever it was that we wanted to, and to benefit from whatever profits were generated from the books. Norm and I went ahead and did it. Those were the times when Alex Toth was working there… Carmine Infantino… a whole bunch of guys.

So what happened? We did well until the Senate hearings.

That was one of the real heavy dips. When people today talk about the comicbook business looking like it’s at the edge of a precipice and it’s about to dive off… those times were really rough and probably came as close to signifying the end of the business as I can remember.

DA: Did you think about what you’d do if you left the business?

KUBERT: Never even bothered me a whit. I’ve always felt all my life that this business of being able to make a living drawing was probably the most fortunate thing that ever happened to me. If I had to do something else, I would not stop drawing; that I’d never do. But to be able to make a living… hell, that never bothered me at all.

DA: So did you end up going to DC after that point?

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Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

3-D Or Not 3-D… That Is The Question!

The first 3-D comic produced by Kubert and the Maurer brothers was Three Dimension Comics #1 (Sept. 1953), starring Mighty Mouse, and it sold a zillion copies at two bits a toss. It was quickly followed by others, including two different “Tor”-featuring issues of the title 3-D Comics, both confusingly labeled “#2” and dated respectively October ’53 and November ’53. The second of those even sported a partly 3-D cover. Alter Ego #115 & 126 covered the mid-1950s 3-D comicbook fad in depth, and TwoMorrows even supplied readers with red-and-greenlensed “glasses”! [Tor TM & © Estate of Joe Kubert; Mighty Mouse TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

KUBERT: Yeah, after the bottom dropped out of the 3-D thing and the comicbook market was really suffering and St. John actually went out of business. I had to look around and see what my next steps would be. DC was the biggest market, of course, at that time… the healthiest, too… and I was lucky enough to be able to start working up there. That’s when I contacted Bob Kanigher, showed him the stuff I was doing, and that’s when I started working full-time up at DC. DA: And we know that over there you did a lot of war books, and you did “Hawkman” when it was brought back, [a feature] you had done back in the ’40s. Are there any particular favorites out of any of this stuff?

KUBERT: No, not really. My favorite stuff is the stuff that I’m working on. These were stories. These were not things that I wrote myself. These were stories that were written and scripts that I had to illustrate…. So that I can enjoy what I’m

A Prince Of A Fellow Joe’s Viking Prince cover for The Brave and the Bold #23 (AprilMay 1959) featured one of his (and Robert Kanigher’s) most enduring creations. Supplier Bob Bailey points out that this was the penultimate issue of that title to showcase “the sword-and-sandal characters.” The wash cover effect, Bob says, is by either Jack Adler or Jerry Serpe, “because Joe told me personally [Serpe] was his favorite colorist.” [TM & © DC Comics.]

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician”

doing, I try to invest myself completely and totally into the story, and I do consciously attempt to get the elements of the story that the writer has included and take it perhaps one step beyond that, perhaps fasten it onto the characterization or emotional content.

Incidentally, those are the things that I’ve learned from Mr. Will Eisner, really the master storyteller. And I learned early on that that’s what this whole business is about. It’s not a matter of doing pretty pictures. It’s great if you can do that, but the whole call for our business is telling a story. We’re communicators, we’re storytellers.

DA: You did a daily strip at one point. Do you think that that came about because of your work for the DC war books?

KUBERT: I can tell you exactly how it came about that I did the Green Beret strip. A guy by the name of Neal Adams, whom I didn’t know at the time, had recommended me to the syndicate to do the strip. And I was contacted under those circumstances. And that’s where it all started.

37

DA: Was doing a daily strip what it’s cracked up to be?

KUBERT: The daily strip was what every comicbook artist aspired to, because that was respectable. That was something that was appearing in an adult kind of literature, a newspaper. Also, the guys who worked for newspapers at that time were making a hell of a lot more dough than anybody in the comicbook business. So it was something that everybody aspired to. When you’re doing comicbook work, anywhere from two to four months passed before your stuff was published. Sure, it was thrilling to see your stuff in print, but you’d done that stuff like almost a half a year ago. In newspapers, every five or six weeks it was out on the stands. The stuff that you had done was very current, so there were a lot of things that made it exciting. And yeah, most of us, including me, really aspired to do some newspaper work. That was early on.

However, when I did The Green Beret, the blush was off the rose a little bit. The newspaper was at that time in a transition where,

DA: Had [a newspaper comic strip] been one of your goals at one point in your life?

KUBERT: It had been early on. To do a daily strip was probably the goal of every comicbook artist at that time. Comicbook cartoonists were not considered artists. It was not considered a really respectable profession.

Most of the guys who were in the business early on had to make a living, but perhaps the illustration business was a little tight. A lot of the magazines, the [Saturday Evening] Post and a lot of the other magazines, were going by the wayside. So the illustrators who were doing beautiful work there had to make a living somewhere. A lot of them came to comicbooks. They were not proud of the fact that they were doing comicbook work. Most of the cartoonists at that time, if you’d asked them what they were doing to make a living: “Well, I’m a commercial artist.” But use the term “cartoonist” or “comicbook artist”?

Never. That just wasn’t done. So there was a different kind of world at that time.

Thai One On! Kubert’s Tales of the Green Beret strip for Sunday, Oct. 15, 1967, seems almost closer to a latter-day Terry and the Pirates than to a feature that was centered around a special U.S. military unit during the Vietnam War. Although book author Robin Moore is officially bylined as writer of the comic strip, it was actually scripted by Jerry Caplin. [TM & © Chicago Tribune Syndicate or successors in interest.]

38

Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

instead of having a strip like Terry and the Pirates taking a whole spread across the newspaper page and maybe being four inches deep, they suddenly took on this postage-stamp size.

Ironically enough, today, it’s just the reverse. You can make a better living in comicbooks. And the newspaper strip is an addendum, as far as I’m concerned. It’s pretty meaningless when it appears.

DA: There was a period of time when you became an editor at DC, and it looks like most of the covers that were done at DC were either yours or Carmine Infantino’s or Neal Adams’. How did you like being an editor at DC? KUBERT: Quite different. I became an editor up at DC, incidentally, as a result of a request by Carmine Infantino.

My relationship with Carmine goes way, way back. As a matter of fact, he was an usher at my wedding, and I’m married to the same woman for over 46 years, so I’ve known him for a long time. We used to buddy around together when we were younger, and so on. Carmine had become the editor-in-chief, publisher, resident factotum of DC

Steal This Book Cover!

While Kubert supplied many powerful covers for DC, one that did not quite make the cut is the above faux cover for All-Star Squadron #3 (Nov. 1981). After Joe had done this drawing at the behest of editor Len Wein, interior artist Rich Buckler insisted that his own version of the same scene be utilized. Knowing what a fan Roy Thomas (that title’s writer/conceptualizer) had long been of his work, Joe gave him the original art as a wedding gift—but it was stolen by some lowlife from the DC offices when Roy loaned it to the company so it could be printed as a pin-up. A/E’s editor is still offering a reward for information leading to its return. This faux cover was put together by John Joshua, and colored by Richard Seeto. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Solid Like A Rock Kubert’s cover for Our Army at War #222 (Aug. 1970) reflects the era when Joe was editing as well as drawing DC’s top war comic, before it was retitled Sgt. Rock. This scan of the original art is courtesy of the Palantine News Network website. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician”

Comics, and when that occurred, he contacted me and asked if I’d be interested in taking on an editorial job. I think it was during the interim between when I left the strip and was coming back into the comicbook business again. Bob Kanigher, who was the editor up there at that time, had become ill and under a hell of a lot of pressure as editor—still able to write, but not really able to handle the chores of being an editor. So under those circumstances, Carmine asked me if I’d be interested in being an editor.

I said, “Sure, that would be fine, except I’m living in New Jersey. I don’t want to be facing that kind of traffic.” So we made an arrangement where my schedule would be, I’d come in two or three days a week. I’d be in about 10:30 or so, missing the traffic, and leave by 2:30 before the traffic [got heavy again]. So they set it up for me real nice. I was handling at that time all the war books. And when the Tarzan thing came in, I was handling that.

Apparently the only criteria for hiring anybody to do anything is if the book sells. Now, what makes it sell? You know, if you had the formula for that, you could be an instant millionaire. It’s just a matter of hit-and-miss and luck that happened that a lot of the covers that I did seemed to sell books. The formula we felt at that time was that 75% of the sale of the books really depends on the cover illustration. The covers I was doing, and that Carmine did, seemed to push the books into slightly heavier sales. And yeah, I did a hell of a lot of covers under those circumstances.

39

courses of study that had to be taken, getting the instructors and working with them. That’s fine with me. That’s what I do, but not the business end. It wasn’t that I felt that I was incapable of doing it. I just don’t like it. I just don’t like doing that edge of it. My wife decided yes, we would do it, and we kind of haphazardly looked around for a place that would suit our needs in terms of a building that would have the rooms and the spaces for classrooms and so on and so forth. And as luck would have it, we lived in Dover, New Jersey, and there was an old 22- or 23-room mansion that was about 100 years old that came on the market. The family that had lived there, one of the early settlers of the town of Dover, had died out, so to speak. I was able to make a deal and purchase it, and that was the beginning of the school, 21 years ago.

DA: Obviously, there are a lot of graduates from that school that are now in the business. You must feel a great sense of satisfaction about the fact that you’ve contributed back to the business.

KUBERT: I don’t think of it even as contributing to the business.

What it really is is gratifying, and I never thought it would be when I started the damn thing. It’s gratifying to see the efforts that the guys who came to the school had to put out, because it’s not an easy school, the schedule that’s maintained by people who attend. What started out as a two-year school is now three years.

I want to squeeze into those two or three years all the things that I learned that took maybe 10 to 15 years with me. It was a kind

DA: The biggest thing I remember is that you decided to open a cartooning school.

KUBERT: Yeah, that happened 21 years ago. I had always had in the back of my mind, as I had mentioned earlier, the only way that guys like me when I started out could get the kind of information that allowed us to work in [comics] was as a result of the help and advice from guys already in the business. This comicbook business is a peculiar edge of the commercial art field.

And those peculiarities really demand certain abilities, inputs, and applications of the art form that are very difficult to come by. If you try to pick this up yourself, it’s almost like re-creating the wheel.

However, if you can latch on to a guy who’s already in the business, he can tell you the kind of brushes to use, the kind of pencils, the sizes, how to apply yourself, what to do when you’re focusing on a story and how to get the damn thing done, because you’re constantly living under the pressure of a deadline. And for a long time I figured, “Gee whiz, it’d be great if, instead of learning this stuff on a hit-and-miss basis, there was one place that people who really had the commitment to want to do this work could come to learn it all.”

It was at that time, about 20 years ago, that my kids were grown up, married, out of the house. I have five of them, and thank God they’re all out and good. My wife is a graduate of a business college. And I asked her, “Do you feel you’d like to involve yourself in running a business at this stage?” Because I was not prepared.

I would not give up my own career. I’ve always made a living. I’ve never been unemployed in the past 50 or 60 years… not for one day.

Even when I was in the Army, I was doing this stuff. So it wasn’t to start a new career for myself, but rather because I felt that, jeez, it’d just be a damn good idea for people who wanted to get into the business to have a place to do that. And Muriel, my wife, said, “Well, it sounds good to me. I don’t have a heck of a lot to do.” And I said, “Look, I’m not going to handle the business end of this. If I have to do that, I won’t start this in the first place. I won’t even consider it. But if you’re willing to take on the business and take care of the bookkeeping and the billings and all of that stuff, that’d be fine for me.”

I’d be involved in setting up a curriculum and figuring out the

It might seem a bit odd to use an advertisement as an art spot—but if we knew Joe (and we did, happily), we know he would want A/E’s readers to know that his legendary school is still in business, teaching young artists skills needed by comicbooks and related art fields. It stands, along with his body of illustrated work, as a monument to all that is good, even great, about the comics field.

40

Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

of a haphazard catch-as-catch-can situation at the school. It’s a consistent, pressured schedule all the time, for them to get the information that’s necessary.

The guys that came through the school did so admirably, and none of them had an easy time of it. To see them doing well in the business now is really gratifying. And my greatest pleasure, I’ve got to tell you, is my own two boys; that’s like the cherry on top of the whipped cream. I mean, I couldn’t tell you how proud I am of them. They came to the school. They asked to come to the school, which surprised the hell out of me.

One of my boys, Adam, had already graduated from Rochester Institute of Technology as a medical illustrator, and incredibly enough, he got a job as soon as he got out of school. Terrifically talented guy. When he had worked at the job maybe a couple of weeks, he said, “You know, Dad, I don’t enjoy this, because I’m not drawing. All I’m doing is just rendering different kinds of drawings, photographs, and so on. Would you let me come to your school?”

a plan for his whole life, actually. I selected a period of time in the United States that I felt lent itself to some really exciting things occurring. The Industrial Revolution was just starting. Cars were just being mass-produced. The movie industry was just starting. A lot of things were happening at that time, late 1800s into the early 1900s. So I hope one day I’ll get back to that again.

The Fax story was quite a different set of circumstances. I had known Irwin Rustemagic for 20 years. I had contacted him perhaps 7 or 8 years ago…. I had spoken to Will [Eisner] eight or nine years earlier and had told him of my feelings that I’d like to get into doing some stuff that was more meaningful to me. And fortunately, just as Will was able to when he put out his first [graphic] novels, he was able to financially not depend on that [material] to be sold

My son Andy, at the same time, maybe two years younger, had some sort of an interest in it, but really didn’t do a heck of a lot of drawing.

They both asked if they could attend, and I said, “Yeah, but you have to understand that I’m going to be tougher on you two guys than anybody else in the place.” This was ten years ago. The school had already been in existence for about ten years. I said, “I’m not going to jeopardize what Mom and I have put into this. Took a hell of a lot of hard work. The moment I feel this is not really what you want to do and you’re not putting the effort into it, you’re out. That’s the end of it.”

Okay. That was the premise for them attending. They were in my class. They did their homework, because if they lived at home at the time and didn’t do their homework, that would not have been acceptable to me. So I’m real proud of what they’ve been able to do.

DA: Obviously, the first ten years of getting the school off the ground and getting it going must have been a lot of work and a lot of energy. But I’ve noticed, in the last five years, you’ve had a couple of projects that you’ve done that were not just covers or bits and pieces here and there, but real stories, the Abraham Stone stories that you put together, and Fax from Sarajevo. Both of those are obviously very personal stories to you. Was Abraham Stone one of those things that you’ve wanted to do for a long time?

KUBERT: Yes. The Abraham Stone character that I eventually came out with— and I hope one day I’ll get back to it to do some more stories—I’ve got

From Sgt. Rock To Abraham Stone In the 1990s, Kubert began creating original graphic novels, such as Abraham Stone. Above is a page from a Spanish-language edition. [TM & © Estate of Joe Kubert.]

“[Drawing] Is Almost Like Being A Magician”

Kubert & Sons (Above:) The photo-cover of Marvel Age #23 (Dec. 1993) depicted Joe with his two pro-artist sons, Adam (on our left) and Andy, who were then drawing for Marvel. [Cover TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Top right:) The second-from-last issue of Flash Comics (#103, Jan. 1949) spotlighted one of Hawkman’s classic encounters with The Ghost, with script by Robert Kanigher. Thanks to Al Dellinges.

(Right:) The same Kanigher/Kubert team co-created the acclaimed World War I-era “Enemy Ace” feature. Here’s the cover of Star Spangled War Stories #139 (June-July 1968). Thanks to Daniel James Cox. [Both pages TM & © DC Comics.]

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42

Joe Kubert As Artist, As Editor, As Teacher… & As Force Of Nature

“Christ, Joe, do it! Don’t sit on your hands. You can make the time.”

And I asked him, about 8 or 9 years ago, “How the hell do you set your schedule up to be able to do what it is that you really want to do?”

Because I had found myself closed into doing a lot of stuff for the school and really not having enough time to do the stuff I really wanted to do.

So Will said, “You’ve got to take the time. You’ve got to. Even if it means just cutting one day a week off, not getting any telephone calls, not getting any kind of business from anything else, and just concentrating on what it is that you want to do.” That’s the way he did it for himself. I said, “But then what do you do? How do you set up the publishing?” He says, “Joe, if you put the book together, if you have any problem with it at all, I’ll publish it.” Now, whether he was serious about it or not—I’m sure he was.

That kind of set me thinking that, unless I really put myself to it, if I don’t get this stuff done, it’s nobody else’s fault but my own. And I really got to get off my rear end and get started on it. That talk really resulted in the first Tor books that I did, the Abraham Stone book, and eventually the Fax book.

DA: Do you have any concepts or ideas that you want to do in the future?

Just The Fax, Man! A page from Kubert’s acclaimed Fax from Sarajevo. One pro artist, a self-proclaimed expert on what other artists should and shouldn’t do, opined that, because of the reality of the Bosnian War as opposed to Sgt. Rock, Joe should have employed a different style from his signature one when drawing Fax. In Ye Editor’s view, such folks display more chutzpah than common sense. Joe’s style worked just fine, thank you very much.

[TM & © Estate of Joe Kubert.]

immediately. He was able to take off a year to do it, with the feeling that he could afford it.

I, too, was, thank God, in that similar kind of a situation, where I really wanted to seriously apply myself to some stuff that I had in the back of my head… that I could control completely in terms of story and drawing and everything else. I was editing up at DC. I was trying to set the school up. It was at that time that I’d spoken to Will. Will was teaching at SVA, the School of Visual Arts.

He had asked me a couple of times to come up there as a guest speaker, and he in turn had come over to my school as a guest speaker. Our relationship over the years, from the time I was a kid, has just been great. He has always been supportive and helpful.

KUBERT: Thank God I’m in a fortunate position where I have projects that I’m involved with that will probably take the next five years, if I live long enough. Every once in a while, my sons will ask me, “Hey, dad, I’m in a pickle. Can you help me out with this?” Or, “Can you do that or ink some stuff or work something.” That’s the greatest thing in the world….

DA: So how does it feel to be, instead of Joe Kubert, to being Adam Kubert’s dad?

KUBERT: Well, Adam and Andy—I’m so proud of them I could bust. But really, what I get a big kick out of is when—and that’s very, very rare—we can all get together at the same time at some convention or wherever. Their deadlines are horrendous. But somebody will say, “Joe Kubert—is that Adam’s son? Is that a brother?” That’s great. That’s great.

Joe Kubert has been featured in a number of issues of Alter Ego over the past 25 years, most prominently in #116, soon after his passing in 2012.

“I Had An Epiphany”

43

JOHN BROOME Talks About His Life In & Out Of Comics Interview Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: John Broome was long a sort of “mystery-man” among major comicbook writers of the Silver Age, because by the time we comics fans were trying to track everybody down in the interest of the history of the field, John was living and working first in Paris, later in Japan. He attended only one comics convention: the San Diego Comic-Con of 1998, where he was feted and admired, obviously to his great amazement… and where this interview, among a handful of others, was conducted. Sadly, he passed away about half a year later….

DAVID ARMSTRONG: Where were you born?

JOHN BROOME: In Brooklyn, New York.

DA: Did you get any formal training in writing?

Irving Bernard (John) Broome at the 1998 San Diego Comic-Con, in a photo courtesy of Comic Vine website (that’s retired editor/longtime friend Julius Schwartz’s hand on his shoulder, by the way). He’s flanked by the splash pages of stories that bookended his Flash-related work: (Below left:) The Joe Kubert-drawn “Hawkman” splash for Flash Comics #104 (Feb. 1949), the final issue of the Golden Age title that had birthed the Scarlet Speedster. Courtesy of Al Dellinges. (Oh, and JB is reported to have scripted the “Flash” tale in #104 as well, though the DC Archives volume ascribed it to Robert Kanigher.)

(Below right:) Broome’s very first “Flash” tale during the “revival”: the second yarn in Showcase #4 (Sept.-Oct. 1956), as penciled by Carmine Infantino and inked by Joe Kubert. It was with that comicbook issue that the Silver Age can truly be said to have begun. Courtesy of Allen Ross. [TM & © DC Comics.]

44

John Broome Talks About His Life In & Out Of Comics

BROOME: No. No. DA: You just started writing?

BROOME: Yeah, right. Just started writing. No, actually, a friend of mine, a really remarkable character who is in my book—I wrote a book—and he was so good that one of his stories got him a job in Chicago in the Ziff-Davis company. Ziff-Davis was a publishing company then that published Amazing Stories and other sciencefiction [magazines]. He got this job, and he wouldn’t go to Chicago alone. So two of his friends, and I was one of them, had to go with him. And we lived together there.

And he taught me how to write. Or rather, he gave me a chance to write a story. He said he’d buy it because he was the editor. So I wrote this story and he bought it. That was the beginning.

DA: How did you get into comicbooks?

BROOME: My agent was Julie Schwartz. He sold maybe about ten of my efforts at science-fiction at about that time. Early on, he got a job at Detective Comics [DC] as an editor, and immediately I began selling him comicbook stories. It was easy to switch from sciencefiction to comicbooks. I liked it much better, [because] I didn’t have to do a lot of routine stuff, as you have to do in writing. You have to tell where the story takes place, what kind of a terrain, things that seem boring to me. Whereas, in comicbooks. I only had to deal with the action of the storyline and the dialogue, and that’s what I liked best.

and we caught up before 1969. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: The USSR’s first Sputnik artificial satellite was launched in October 1957.]

DA: Did you have a lot of contact with the other writers in the business?

BROOME: Sure…. I was the leader—the ringleader, you might say—in the attempts to form a union among the writers—not the artists, but the writers. We couldn’t get the artists. They were getting too much money. But we had a chance with the writers, and I collected the six main writers, Otto Binder among them. It took a whole year and I got them into [DC co-publisher Jack] Liebowitz’s office in the right temper with the right feeling. And my whole idea was simply to gain reprint rights, which we didn’t have yet, and they [DC] were reprinting our material without paying us.

And I thought that was kind of a crime. I was very happy when we finally marched into Liebowitz’s office and maybe I began to open my mouth. No sooner did he take sight of me than Liebowitz says to the boys, “I don’t know why you came in here like this. Because I’m just getting ready to give you a raise of $2 a page.” Well, at that moment, the whole union collapsed. Everybody was so happy to get $2 to pay bills. I was thoroughly disgusted and I couldn’t do anything. It just dissolved.

DA: You worked for Fawcett before you worked for DC. What did you do there?

BROOME: The people that I knew in Fawcett were Rod Reed, Wendell Crowley, France Herron. All dead by now, I’m quite sure.

DA: Did you know Otto Binder?

BROOME: Yeah, yeah. Of course I knew Otto Binder very well.

He was a pal. Binder was a very reliable type. He wasn’t like me, full of ups and downs and things like that. But he was a very regular guy who was very, very talented. Good storyteller, too.

DA: In the stories that you did, both in the ’40s and in the ’60s, you liked to do things that tied into science. The Atom shrunk down in size.

The Flash sped up so fast that he would charge through molecules. Did you like using devices like that? [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Actually, Gardner Fox, not John Broome, scripted The Atom in the 1960s. But John Broome wrote the equally SF-oriented Green Lantern.]

BROOME: I think I preferred to do realistic stories like Hopalong Cassidy, which was a sort of humorous Western. I think I preferred those to super-heroes. Yeah.

DA: Did you do any romance books?

BROOME: No, I never did romance. I never had any feeling for romance.

DA: Science-fiction stories—Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space. Did you get a kick out of doing the science-fiction stuff?

BROOME: No doubt. But that’s a little hard to remember now.

DA: Do you remember, when the space race was on, with Sputnik and all those things?

BROOME: I remember that era very well. When Russia lofted the first Sputnik. Yeah, I remember that very well. That was in 1960-something, because Kennedy gave us ten years to catch up,

“Mr. Sandman, Send Me A Dream” The Flash’s initial encounter with sand-beings in “The City of Shifting Sand!” from All-Flash Comics #22 (April-May 1946), reportedly Broome’s first-ever writing assignment for DC Comics. Art by Martin Nadle, who signed his last name “Naydel.” The splash page of this yarn was reprinted in A/E #149, to accompany the first installment of JB’s autobiographical memoir. Thanks to Jim Kealy. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“I Had An Epiphany”

45

whether I ever researched any story of any kind. I recognized that the purpose of the story was to tell a story, and that was usually some kind of a mental activity.

It was a documentary in comics [form]. I mean, that’s why I was successful in comics—because I never made it documentary, which would have toned it down completely, considerably, I should say.

DA: Did you think of comicbooks as a way to get to some other form of writing in the writing field?

BROOME: No, I really didn’t think like that in the beginning. When I did a story called “Lance O’Casey,” I was delighted with the medium. You see, “Lance O’Casey” was a completely realistic story about a young adventurer in the South Seas, and I was delighted with the ability or the opportunity to tell a realistic story about a young adventurer in a savage, natural setting. It seemed to me a wonderful way to tell a story using the comics medium. But after that, with the super-powers, it was obvious that you could only tell it in the comics, and that was different. You can never tell a Superman story in prose or as an ordinary story. You could only tell it with the comics. So, in that sense, comics was meant for Superman. It wasn’t meant for “Lance O’Casey.”

DA: Are you a big movie fan?

Sweep West, Young Broome!

(Above:) This splash from DC’s Hopalong Cassidy #93 (Sept. 1954) displays a bit of the lightheartedness Broome said he liked to achieve in his Westerns. Art by Gene Colan & Ray Burnley. Thanks to Jim Ludwig.

(Right:) Another saddle saga JB wrote was the “Foley of the Fighting 5th” entry in All Star Western #114 (Aug.-Sept. 1960). Art

by Howard Sherman. Thanks to Doug Martin. [TM & © DC Comics.]

DA: So did you pack up and go to Europe at that point?

BROOME: No, not at that point. But I thought they might fire me because I was tough. I wanted to force them to have reprint rights, but I couldn’t do anything without the other writers.

DA: The artwork pages used to have a stamp on the back that said “Property of” and so on and so forth. And it basically said that it was work-for-hire. Did your script pages have “work-for-hire” [written on them]?

BROOME: No, I don’t think so….

DA: You did a variety of stories in the early ’50s. Charlie Chan and all those types of stories. Did you ever research any of that stuff, or did you just do it?

BROOME: That’s a good question, but it’s problematical

46

John Broome Talks About His Life In & Out Of Comics

Off On A Comet (Above:) Back when editor Schwartz listed writing (though, sadly, not art) credits in his two science-fiction titles, John Broome used the pseudonym “John Osgood” for the first time in “The Mad World,” penciled by Bob Oksner and inked by Joe Giella. The splash of this story was reprinted some issues back.

(Above right:) While Broome was understandably proud of the many SF comics tales he scribed for Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space, surely his most important story for either mag was the origin of the first-ever mutant super-hero, Captain Comet, in SA #9 (June 1951). Here is its all-important page 2, illustrated by Carmine Infantino & Bernard Sachs; the only credit on the splash page was for the house name “Edgar Ray Merritt.” That splash was seen back in A/E #177, which concluded the serializing of JB’s memoir My Life in Little Pieces. Thanks to Jim Kealy for both scans.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

Charlie Chan’s #1 Story Splash panel from the lead yarn in DC’s New Adventures of Charlie Chan #4 (Nov.-Dec. 1958).

Art by Sid Greene. Despite the quality of the work, times were changing and Charlie Chan was no longer a viable part of them, so the series lasted only six issues. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“I Had An Epiphany”

47

And I did.

DA: When you started in comics, did you think it was a business that was going to last?

BROOME: That’s a good question. You know, when we started, I wasn’t sure at all that it would last. And we were floating around the system which had just sprung up out of a comicbook on Superman. Basically, we were floating around it. We were a little surprised every week to get a check, every month, and so on. So I’m afraid I think we didn’t expect it to last. It was a surprise.

I mean, these comicbook conventions, thirty in a year or something like that. I still can’t understand it at all, let alone believe it. One or two conventions I understand. But they have twenty or more. And I don’t understand that. I don’t understand what’s happened to the field. These people that come up to me and thank me, almost with tears in their eyes. I don’t understand that.

DA: Well, maybe it helped them in their childhood.

BROOME: Yeah, well, we’ve been out of America for many decades, and America has changed, and we have not been

Sailor Beware!

John Broome indicates that he wrote one or more “Lance O’Casey” outings for Fawcett’s Whiz Comics, although in which precise issues is not known.

One possibility: this exploit from Whiz #34 (Sept. 1942), illustrated by Harry Anderson. Thanks to P.C. Hamerlinck. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

BROOME: Yeah, I’m a big movie fan. Any kind, if they’re good.

DA: Did you ever think about writing movies?

BROOME: Yeah. As a matter of fact, my great friend, my wonderful friend who’s written up in my book, David Vern, one of the most extraordinary people who ever lived—someday, if you ever meet Jack Rollins, who is the producer of Woody Allen’s movies, ask him about David—he and I wrote a whole movie, including dialogue and a scenario, about the life of Casanova, but it never sold.

DA: So that was the end of that.

BROOME: That was the end of that.

DA: How come you left comics? What did you do afterward?

BROOME: I guess I felt that I should go on to bigger and better things. I felt I’m not an ordinary individual. Do you know what an epiphany is? I’ve had it. After you have an epiphany, you are never on a normal level again. So I had an epiphany; I had an opportunity to receive signals from a source where the real power comes from. I didn’t know it in those terms then. But gradually I realized that I could write something much better than comics.

Have A (Crystal) Ball!

“Having an epiphany” may not be identical with foreseeing the future, but it gives us an excuse to re-present yet another Golden Age page by John Broome— the “Hawkman” splash from Flash Comics #95 (May 1948), with its fortune-telling theme. Art by Joe Kubert. Thanks to Al Dellinges. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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John Broome Talks About His Life In & Out Of Comics

A Broome Made Of Silver The above 1998 smile might have been for the two DC Silver Age series on which (along with his “JSA” tales) his reputation most firmly rests today, as witnessed by splashes from The Flash #110 (Dec.-Jan. 1960), which introduced Kid Flash (a.k.a. Wally West, himself a future Flash)—and Green Lantern #5 (March-April ’61), a series for which he wrote the very first story, rather than “merely” the second one. Flash art by Infantino & Anderson; GL art by Gil Kane & Joe Giella. Thanks to Doug Martin for the Flash scan. [TM & © DC Comics.]

The WHO’S WHO of American Comic Books 1928-1999 Online Edition Created by Jerry G. Bails FREE – online searchable database – FREE http://www. bailsprojects.com/ whoswho.aspx – No password required John Broome writes, Carmine Infantino pencils, Joe Kubert inks, and Julius Schwartz edits the first real story-panel by that team in the second “Flash” in Showcase #4 (Sept.Oct. 1956). Thanks to Dusty Miller. [TM & © DC Comics.]

“I Had An Epiphany”

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prepared for that. We are just getting acquainted now. This is the first time in at least 10 or 12 years, since our 50th wedding anniversary, that we have been in America together.

DA: One last question. Is there any kind of good, fond memory you have of the business that you did while you were working in it?

BROOME: Yeah, I thought that the relationship between Julie Schwartz and myself was a heartwarming relationship. It was steady, It was fast, it was good. It didn’t change. And after I finished with comics, I could always look back on that as something that was important for me.

Irving Bernard (John) Broome’s 1998 memoir My Life in Little Pieces was serialized in Alter Ego over a number of issues, beginning in #149. The 1998 Comic-Con panel that spotlighted him was transcribed for A/E #60.

Off To Join The Circus (Left:) John Broome penned more Golden Age “Justice Society of America” epics than anyone except the series’ co-creator, Gardner Fox. Here, with art by Frank Giacoia, is the second page of “The Circus of 1000 Thrills” from All-Star Comics #54 (Aug.-Sept. 1950); courtesy of Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True”

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The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of MURPHY ANDERSON Interview Conducted by David Armstrong Transcribed by Alex Grand Murphy Anderson Since the artist (seen here with his wife Helen in 2002 at the Heroes Con in Charlotte, North Carolina) loved drawing science-fiction more than anything else, we’re bolstering him with images from three of his signal accomplishments in that area: “Star Pirate” from Planet Comics #49 (July 1947)—writer unknown; A 1948 Buck Rogers promotional drawing sent out to newspapers when Murphy began drawing that already two-decades-old SF comic strip— —and the splash page of his and writer Marv Wolfman’s adaptation of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ first John Carter novel, A Princess of Mars, from DC’s Weird Worlds #1 (Aug.-Sept. 1972).

Thanks respectively to Comic Book Plus website, the ever-lovin’ Internet, and Bob Bailey for the three comics images. [TM & © respectively by the respective TM & © holders, by the Dille Trust or successors in interest, & Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

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A/E

The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

EDITOR’S NOTE: By pure coincidence, artist Murphy Anderson is the only one of the five creators interviewed for this flip side of issue #188 who didn’t have a role in the “Flash”-debuting Showcase #4 in 1956. However, both before and after that event, he’s drawn such landmark series as Fiction House’s “Star Pirate,” the newspaper strip Buck Rogers, and DC’s “Captain Comet,” “Hawkman,” “Atomic Knights,” et al.—and that doesn’t even count his inimitable inking on many other series— including The Flash. This interview was taped on August 15, 1998, at the San Diego Comic-Con, where else?

DAVID ARMSTRONG: You were born in 1926. Where did you grow up?

MURPHY ANDERSON: I grew up in Greensboro, North Carolina.

My dad owned a taxi cab company. When we moved, he was the manager, but he had the opportunity to buy it out at some point in the late ’30s. He owned the cab company in Greensboro for many years.

Fine. I was really awed by his work. He became a big influence, along with Will Eisner, of course.

DA: You started in the business in New York. How did you get to New York?

ANDERSON: Well, I had graduated, when I was sixteen, from high school and I started at the University of North Carolina in the fall. Went two quarters, but I’d had some contact with the people at certain publishers in New York who gave me some encouragement.

I decided I wanted to make an attempt, before I went into the service, to get into the comic business.

DA: You did samples you sent up to them?

DA: When did you get interested in drawing?

ANDERSON: I guess when I was maybe four, five, six years old, I ‘m not sure. Early, I was very interested in comics. I used to bug my mother to read the comics to me everyday. And she finally felt it was easier for her to just teach me how to read. She had been a school teacher. And so I started reading on comics.

I would say [I started drawing] when I was in the first grade, second grade. I have some memories of drawing.

DA: So, everyone obviously knew you had a talent for it.

ANDERSON: No, they all laughed a great deal at the drawings. [laughter] DA: What was the first time that you had something that actually got printed so you felt like you were published?

ANDERSON: Oh, my first work was published in the Greensboro Record [newspaper]. They had a page every Saturday devoted to kids. Kids could write, send drawings, write poems, whatever.

If they selected yours for publication, you got a dollar. So I had a motivation. My work appeared in there quite often, starting about 1937.

DA: Were you self-taught?

ANDERSON: Self-taught, really. Just studying the things that interested me and trying to copy them.

DA: And so what got you into the comicbook business?

Obviously, you’d read comic strips and liked them when you were a kid.

ANDERSON: Right. Well, I liked comic strips, and I was around for the birth of the comicbooks, you might say. I picked up Star Ranger and comics like that by Harry Chesler. Picked up the first DC books before Superman, well before Superman.

When Superman appeared, I was totally hooked with all the imitators and other people that came along after that, other super-heroes, particularly Lou

I Love A Parade While Murphy was a bit too young to be drawing professionally when the newspaper-stripreprinting Comics on Parade,Vol. 1, #1 (April 1938) went on sale just weeks before Action Comics #1, he was happy to re-create that cover as a commission drawing in later days, featuring Tarzan, the Katzenjammer Kids, Li’l Abner, and other favorites. Thanks to Mike Burkey, whose original-art ad can be seen on p. 18 of this issue’s flip side. The original artist is unidentified.

[TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True”

ANDERSON: Well, in high school, I was the associate editor of the school newspaper. We belonged to the Columbia Scholastic Press Association. And we won some awards. One was for makeup, which was my department. So we were offered the chance to go to New York for this annual convention that the press association had.

So I came up for that, with my friend… we were co-editors at the time. He came along and I made it a point to go downtown, from Columbia, to visit publishers. Of course, in my book, the best of all was Quality—they had Lou Fine, Jack Cole, and people like that working there. And at that point, I did meet Lou Fine and I met Jack Cole and a couple of other people.

DA: Did you go to any of the shops? The Eisner Shop?

ANDERSON: No. Later I did go, when I came back to look for a job. I did call on [Jerry] Iger. He told me to come back in a couple of weeks. I had enough money for a week, and at the end of the week, the money was almost gone. And I called on Harry Chesler, as a last resort.

He informed me he wasn’t publishing, but he liked my work and he said, “Have you talked to Fiction House?”

I said, “Oh yes, I talked to Mr. Iger.” And he said, “That’s not Fiction House.” He said, “Wait a minute.”

He picked up the phone and he called Jack Bryne at Fiction House and gave me such a build-up that he said I should come up and see him right away. I went up to Fiction House, and probably within the hour I had a job. I started to work on Monday, right after that.

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ANDERSON: Yeah. Harvey Dunne’s school.

DA: Exactly. Creig Flessel started out as a bouncer there.

ANDERSON: Right. I know he went to school there.

DA: Did you go into the service after that?

ANDERSON: Yeah, I knew that my time was very short. I’d had to sign up for the draft when I was eighteen. And I went back home to wait being called, and they didn’t call me right away. I was freelancing for Fiction House and I couldn’t stand the suspense, so to speak, so I went up and volunteered for immediate induction.

And that’s what got me in the Navy, coincidentally. I tried to enlist in the Navy on about three different occasions, but I have 3/20 vision in my left eye. Lazy eye syndrome, they call it.

DA: Did you tell your father that you were almost out of money?

ANDERSON: No. He had said when the money was up, I had to come home—go back to school.

DA: So you ended up at Fiction House. Did you get to do a wide variety of strips there?

ANDERSON: Well, mostly science-fiction. They gave me the “Star Pirate” strip, which I drew for months, maybe twenty issues. It was a bi-monthly, so it covered quite a span of time. Even when I was in the Navy, they sent me work.

DA: Did you work at Fiction House? Did they have drawing tables?

ANDERSON: Oh yes, you’d call it a bullpen today. But they set me down next to George Tuska. He was an influence. And then I met Leo Lise, Artie Saaf, Ruben Moreira, you name it. Graham Ingels came in a couple of times… most of their star artists.

DA: I interviewed George last year, and it was interesting, because he’s a really robust guy. He must have been quite an athlete in his day.

ANDERSON: Yeah, I think he was.

DA: Did you socialize with the guys there?

ANDERSON: A little bit. Ruben Moreira became a good friend, and he invited me over to the Grand Central School of Art. He was studying there. And so was Lou Fine at that time. I had hoped to go over and meet Lou Fine again. But Lou didn’t show up that particular night. Ruby and I would often go out for lunch or what-have-you.

DA: Is this the one above the train station?

The Secret Life Of Planets While Murphy had drawn a few “Life on Other Planets” features for Planet Comics before he was tapped to take over the “Star Pirate” feature, his first in that series appeared in issue #38 (Nov. 1944). Writer “Len Dodson” is almost certainly a house pseudonym. Thanks to CBP. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

DA: In the service, did you do any drawing?

ANDERSON: Oh, yes. I worked for the Bainbridge Mainsheet until they shipped me off to Chicago. I passed the Eddie Test. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that. They were trying desperately to train technicians to repair radar. They had nobody, really, trained to do it. So this was a very intensive school. It was a nine-month school, right in the heart of the war. So I wound up in Chicago to make an attempt at that school. Of course, I did well on theory, but when it comes to bench work, I was all thumbs. And I failed the first go-around.

So they called me down and said, “You did fine on theory, and we’ll let you try it again.”

You know, well, I said I didn’t want to be there in the first place. I had a soft job lined up on the Bainbridge Mainsheet. I was doing a lot of cartoons for them. But anyhow, they sent me downtown then, to Captain Eddie’s… this is a long involved thing, it’d take up all your time here; I don’t know if you want to get into that or not.

DA: When you were doing Buck Rogers, did you think to yourself you were going to get typecast in doing science-fiction?

ANDERSON: No, I wanted to do sciencefiction. That was my first, my biggest passion.

DA: Because you got to make up everything?

ANDERSON: Yeah, right. I didn’t have to worry about costumes, drawing street clothes, and that sort of thing, which was always kind of tough for me…. I was in hog heaven, as they say down where I come from. I couldn’t believe my good fortune. It was just a real joy. And even till today, Buck Rogers is my favorite character.

DA: You stayed with the strip for a couple of years, and then you got back into doing comicbooks again.

Sailor Beware!

Murphy in the U.S. Navy during the World War II years.

DA: Let me skip ahead to when you got out of the service. You’d obviously had more practice, and you’d continued working, and you matured in your style. Did you go to a lot of different publishers, or did you go back to Fiction House?

ANDERSON: Oh, I went back to Fiction House. I met my wife, in Chicago, in the meantime. We became quite serious, so I want to get back to Chicago. They allowed me to go back and freelance [from there]. As I was a freelancer, I kept scanning the ads of The Chicago Tribune. One day I spotted an ad for someone to illustrate an adventure comic strip. And that’s how I got involved with Buck Rogers. It turns out they were looking for a replacement for [original artist] Dick Calkins at the time.

DA: How long did you spend on Buck Rogers?

ANDERSON: It was about a total of 2½ years. About two years drawing the strip, and the other half year or so, just getting the feel of the thing. They paid me to come and make trial drawings, many of which they used in their promotional publications after that.

ANDERSON: Right. I was doing pulp illustrations all along. I worked for Ziff-Davis and for Fiction House. So I continued doing those up until about 1952, I believe….

Ultimately, Rick Yeager, who was doing the Sunday [Buck Rogers] took over the dailies.

The plan had been that I would ultimately take over the Sundays, if I worked out on the dailies. But that never happened. I had had some differences with the owner, and I decided to go back to comics. I actually went to work for my father for a time.

DA: Did you go to DC, at that point? Or did you go to Standard?

ANDERSON: No, actually, what happened was I was doing pulps, as I told you, for Ziff-Davis. And Ziff-Davis decided to open a line of comics, and the art director in Chicago knew my comic background and asked me if I would be interested in doing comicbooks for them. And I said, “Well sure.” So they informed me, at some point, that Jerry Siegel was their creative director, and they put me in touch with Jerry. And I worked for a couple of years on things for Jerry, in addition to doing work for other publishers.

DA: You obviously knew Jerry’s background…

ANDERSON: Well, Jerry and I hit it off because we could both

Buck Rogers In The 20th Century Murphy personally autographed the original BR daily for Oct. 8, 1948. Script by Bob Williams as “Bob Barton.” [TM & © the Dille Trust or successors in interest.]

“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True”

More Bang For A Buck (Above:) The Buck Rogers strip for Sunday, Aug. 10, 1958—drawn by Murphy Anderson and written by Jerry Siegel.

(Below:) Murphy’s daily for April 7, 1949, written by Bob Williams as “Bob Barton.” Since Williams didn’t have a byline, we’re not quite sure why he needed a pen name as well—but comic strip expert Alberto Becattini says that’s the way it was, and we’re not generally included to argue with him!

[TM & © the Dille Trust or successors in interest.]

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The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

Mission In Action (Above left:) Anderson’s “Mission to Maloorka” in Ziff-Davis’ Amazing Adventures #5 (Oct. 1951) was fairly tame stuff compared to Star Pirate’s astral antics in Fiction House’s Planet Comics—but it was still science-fiction!

Scripter unknown.

(Above right:) Murphy did some work for Standard/Pines around this time, as witness this page from Fantastic Worlds #5 (Sept. 1952); script by Otto Binder. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Jerry Siegel In the early 1950s, having parted company with DC Comics, the co-creator of “Superman” was editing for Ziff-Davis’ comicbook line.

commiserate a little bit about our problems. I guess I [was doing some work for Ziff-Davis] almost up until they decided to throw the towel in and not publish comics anymore…. ’53, ’54. The Senate hearings with the Kefauver Commission put the kibosh on many of the smaller publishers. Not that [Ziff-Davis was] small, but I guess they felt they weren’t making any money on it, so it was foolish to keep pursuing it.

I was working, by that time, for DC, and DC became my mainstay almost right away, when I started to work for Julie. And the Ziff-Davis stuff became secondary.

DA: Did you know Julius Schwartz before?

ANDERSON: No, no. But we had a common friend, Ray Palmer, the editor of Amazing Stories. He and Julie had been friends since the mid-’30s. That was a big coincidence—we both enjoyed that, talking about it and all… I ultimately did “Captain Comet” in the early ’50s. I did an Edmond Hamilton feature, “Chris KL-99,” which was a ripoff of his Captain Future character….

Julie’s a dream to work for, you know.

He’s just the easiest guy in the world.

DA: Obviously, there was a group of artists who ended up doing most of those books. Mike Sekowsky, Carmine Infantino, yourself, and Joe Giella worked on those books….

ANDERSON: Well, at that point in time, I don’t believe Mike was doing anything for Julie. He came on a little later. But, yes, Carmine and Joe Giella, Frank Giacoia, Alex Toth….

Otto Binder At the time he wrote “Space Treasure,” the writer was still scripting the adventures of the original “Captain Marvel” for Fawcett Publications.

DA: Sy Barry?

ANDERSON: I have difficulty calling him “Sy” because we always called him Seymour. But when he got a really professional job, doing The Phantom, he was almost told he had to shorten his name a little bit. [chuckles] But I worked in a study with Dan [Barry]… both Dan and Seymour, for a period of several months, in ’50, ’51. That was interesting. [big laughter] Seymour’s a peach of a guy. But Dan is bombastic and very…mercurial, shall we say.

“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True”

57

DA: I’ve heard stories about both Barry brothers, actually. So you ended up spending a great deal of time on the science-fiction books. At the same time, the space program was going forward in the United States.

Did you get a kick out of [seeing that] science-fiction was actually becoming real?

ANDERSON: Well, a little experience I had when I was Edmond working on Buck Rogers…. They Hamilton had the UFOs… you remember, See the previous issue they had the sightings, [and one] of Alter Ego (#187) for was shot down or crashed in 1948 a full-throated salute or ’49, something like that. So, to this “Writer of Two Mr. Dille [owner of Buck Rogers] Worlds.” picked up on that right away and sent telegrams out to every subscribing newspaper that Buck Rogers really had nothing to do with it and so forth. You know, he was a great one for getting publicity out of anything that happened.

DA: During the ’50s, was there any kind of thought about the fact that there weren’t a great number of super-heroes? Most of the super-heroes that had kind of established the business in the ’40s were gone, and it was basically romance, sciencefiction, Westerns….

ANDERSON: Well, their [DC’s] attitude was that they were a thing of the past. Only Superman and Batman—

We Have Seen The Future…

Edmond Hamilton’s DC hero “Chris KL-99” may have been derived from his earlier pulp-magazine hero Captain Future, but together the SF author and Murphy Anderson gave Chris some fine moments in the Julius Schwartzedited title Strange Adventures. Seen above, courtesy of Bob Bailey, is a splash page from Strange Adventures #11 (Aug. 1951). [TM & © DC Comics.]

Buck-ing A Trend A 1973 Buck Rogers illo by our esteemed interviewee.

[TM & © the Dille Trust or successors in interest.]

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The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

Wonder Woman to a degree—survived. Aquaman and a few others were still back-up features…

Green Arrow, that sort of thing.

DA: Julie, obviously, decided that he was going to make a stab at re-establishing some of these heroes and updating them. What was the general thought when that happened?

ANDERSON: Well, he and I had talked… I was only doing covers for him. I’d gone back to North Carolina about 1953 to work with my father.

He needed me and wanted me down there. So I continued to do covers; I’d come to New York three or four times a year and plot covers. My last trip up, Julie asked me to do what turned out to be the first Adam Strange cover. I came up with a germ of the idea of a pendulum. We’d talked about [Poe’s short story] “The Pit and the Pendulum” a number of times as a possible cover, and we could never come up with anything that, really, he thought, worked.

So I worked up some sketches, and he wasn’t happy with them. He said, “It just isn’t working.” I said, “Well, let me take it home. I’ll do the cover—I think I know what you want—and send it back. If you don’t like it, you don’t use it.” So he didn’t like it and he didn’t use it, but he got Gil Kane to re-draw it.

But Gil pretty much followed my costume for Adam Strange on the cover I’d done.

DA: Did you get a kick out of the character?

ANDERSON: Oh yes. But at the same time, Sputnik went up. Mr. Dille, senior, had died, and his son Bob asked me to come back and work on Buck Rogers again. And the temptation was too great. I went back to Buck. Julie, on a trip to Florida, swung by and visited us in Greensboro—I was living there at the time. I tried to talk him into helping me, and he said “I can’t write. I’m an editor. If you write something, I’ll edit it for you.” Nothing came of that, but they were looking for a writer at the time.

I think Fritz Leiber did some of the stories, along with several other science-fiction pros. I did Buck Rogers again short of a year. I had more problems with the son, and his crew, than I’d had with the father.

DA: So you ended up going back to DC.

The Pit & The Pandemonium Murphy relates how he and editor Julius Schwartz kicked around the idea for a “Pit and the Pendulum”-inspired SF cover, and how he even drew one on spec—but Julie wound up having Gil Kane illustrate the finished cover. Thanks to the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

ANDERSON: Yeah, right. By then, “Adam Strange” and “The Flash” had started. They were starting “Green Lantern,” and “The Atom” was a little behind that. So I got involved in inking on a lot of those.

DA: And how did you like working on all these different characters?

ANDERSON: Well, I’d never [just] inked before. That was sort of a shock for me. I had to learn how to cope with it. Because, if you see something that you don’t like, the tendency in your own work is to fix it. Of course, I didn’t want to do that with Carmine or Gil. I kind of had to roll with the punches, you know. There were little inking things I could do that made me feel a little better about it, and I would do those. But largely, I never touched the pencils with either one.

DA: They were pretty loose pencils, weren’t they?

ANDERSON: No, they were tight. Carmine’s stuff was a little bit

scratchy, but it was definite. And Gil’s was…you could trace the lines. But he worked his sketches up and then he put everything on a light box. He worked ’em up on newsprint, put ‘em on a light box, and traced ’em so they were very clean… with a soft pencil, but very clean. He was almost inking them in his mind, I think.

I enjoyed those strips. And “The Atomic Knights” came along about that time. I bugged Julie unmercifully. I said, “I’m not an inker. I want to do my own work.” And I still feel that the best work is done by one mind that controls it all. Will Eisner is a perfect example of that. He had a lot of people help him, but he did the key stuff. He did all the real thinking in everything he produced. And the same is true of Caniff, Raymond, you name it.

All of those guys basically did the penciling and the inking.

DA: Did you like the fact that “The Atomic Knights” rotated every three issues so you didn’t have a tight deadline?

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Ink Spots (Left & bottom left:) Anderson’s first inking of Gil Kane’s pencils on a Green Lantern cover was of issue #2 (Sept.Oct. 1960)… while he first inked Carmine Infantino on a cover of The Flash on #122 (Aug. 1961). But in neither case was it the last time. Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Murphy at the drawing board.

Knights & Days (Above:) “The Atomic Knights” was Anderson’s favorite among the various series he drew for DC. Here’s an early splash, from Strange Adventures #123 (Dec. 1960).

Script by John Broome. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

ANDERSON: The deadline wasn’t the problem. It just took an awful lot of extra sweat and time to do it. I had to allow extra time for “The Atomic Knights” when I’d do one. You know, six suits of armor… each suit of armor was different, six different people.

And they were always menaced by at least a dozen, you know [chuckles]… get into fights and what have you. I was never oriented with doing these mob scenes. Reed Crandall and Jack Kirby had no problem, they’d just draw them—Mike Sekowsky, the same way.

DA: Did you end up doing model sheets for each of the characters?

ANDERSON: No, no. I drew for my own satisfaction and would show ’em to Julie. Just to save myself a little aggravation, there were two of the characters who were brothers. I said to Julie, “Can’t they be twin brothers, identical twins?” He laughed and he said, “Yeah, go ahead.” But they had different suits of armor!

DA: “Atomic Knights” and “The Space Museum” were my two favorite features in Strange Adventures. They still are. I never got into Mike Sekowsky’s stuff.

ANDERSON: Well, Mike was an extremely good artist. But he, like a couple of other people I met, had ambitions to go in another direction and got mired in comics and never got out. He wanted to be a fashion illustrator, and he was extremely good at that. That’s

why, when he changed Wonder Woman, she became a fashion plate, if you noticed—at least his idea of a fashion plate.

DA: Does that mean that Snapper Carr was the fashion plate in the Justice League?

ANDERSON: [laughs] I don’t know. That’s the only story I ever inked in Justice League… the only chapter, interior pages. The first issue, the first tryout issue, was divided into, I think, four chapters, and I did the Snapper Carr chapter, over Mike’s pencils.

DA: I remember you did a lot of the covers for Justice League. Did you enjoy doing covers better than the interior stories?

ANDERSON: Well, they were more of a challenge. You know, you had a lot of elements, and you had to make them interesting and dynamic, if possible. And that was not my strong point, either. Jack Kirby’s foreshortening was not something that I really understood or cared to do. To me, it was not realistic. It had become more abstract. That’s one of the reasons, much as I admired Kirby, I never wanted to work like that. I wanted to do the Foster, Raymond kind of realism.

DA: Did you end up having any long-term relationships with any of the people, you say inked for? For example, Carmine or Gil Kane?

A League Of Their Own Two of Anderson’s earliest and best Justice League of America covers: for #1 (Oct.-Nov. 1960) and #3 (Feb.-March ’61). Courtesy of the GCD. [TM & © DC Comics.]

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“Swanderson” Vs Anderson!

(Above left:) The artistic team of penciler Curt Swan and inker Murphy Anderson was so popular with “Superman” readers in the 1970s that someone coined the term “Swanderson” for it—and the phrase stuck! The Man of Steel may not appear on this splash page from Superman #248 (Feb. 1972), but its power and composition sure grab the eye! Script by Len Wein.

(Above right:) But Murphy contributed some solo art jobs on his own for the Kryptonian, as in Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #29 (June 1970). Script by E. Nelson Bridwell. Both scans courtesy of Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

ANDERSON: Well, I inked quite a bit of Gil’s and quite a bit of Carmine, of course, and Sekowsky. But, no, I never had any real understanding with them or anything. Curt Swan was a little different. I worked a little closer with him, maybe, than I did some of the others. But it was because I really liked his work. He and I were on much the same wavelength.

DA: Was it tougher working on such a big strip like “Superman”? Were there more restrictions than there were on the other characters?

ANDERSON: No, no. Curt was such a complete penciler, you didn’t have to worry about changing anything, or emphasize anything, because he thought it all out.

DA: Did you live in North Carolina the whole time?

ANDERSON: No, I moved back to New Jersey in 1958. So, I’ve been away from North Carolina since then.

DA: Are there any kind of strange things that happened to you in terms of deadline or characters that someone wanted you to do that you just couldn’t hack anymore?

Curt Swan ANDERSON: No, I never quite had that experience. I managed to do them, whatever they might be. Strange experiences…yeah, I’m sure I had plenty of them. We could pinpoint something, but just off the top of my head, nothing comes to mind.

DA: Were you a big moviegoer?

ANDERSON: Yeah, at one time. But, of course, being a freelancer, you have to work a twelve-hour day or so. It’s hard to find much time for movies. But if you have a specific movie, or…?

DA: No, I was just curious to know if any of the movies that you saw influenced the stuff you drew.

ANDERSON: Oh, definitely, when I was a kid. I saw the chapters

62

The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

Trials By Combat In 1965, Murphy attended the second comicbook convention ever held (it took place in New York City, of course—see photo below). During this same period, Anderson was providing full art for several trial series featuring revived heroes of the Golden Age Justice Society of America, including a pair of two-issue outings featuring first Dr. Fate and Hourman, then Starman and Black Canary—followed by a solo run on “The Spectre” that led to a regular series. This triptych features a commissioned re-creation of his cover for Showcase #55 (March-April 1965)… and splash pages from The Brave and the Bold #62 (Oct.-Nov. ’65) and Showcase #62 (March-April ’66). All stories scripted by Gardner Fox. Photo courtesy of Jean Bails; thanks for art scans respectively to Michael Dunne, Bob Bailey, and… Bob Bailey.

[TM & © DC Comics.]

“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True”

63

ANDERSON: I think all of us in the business, at that time, looked upon it as a stepping stone to doing their own syndicated strip. I don’t know of anyone who was totally satisfied just with doing comicbooks. But none of us really looked down on it. Some of the older artists didn’t want to be affiliated with it, didn’t want their name to appear on it.

DA: When you first started, did you think they’d be around in another fifteen or twenty years?

ANDERSON: Considering what happened to pulp magazines, I thought they would die out. And they almost did, of course, in the late ’60s, early ’70s.

DA: So what do you think about today, when you see that, not only has it not died, but there are lots of publishers and there are conventions that have thousands of people?

ANDERSON: It’s a totally different animal. Back then, they published a big amount of each book; they had to, to compensate for the returns. If they printed 200,000, they probably had to sell a minimum of 80 to 100,000, just to come near breaking even. Nowadays, they have magazines that are successful with 20,000 and the like. So, it’s a different animal.

They have no returns and they sell for a much higher price.

DA: What are you working on now?

ANDERSON: Basically, I’m doing cover re-creations for Diamond; I did their Price Guide cover. They’re the ones that are out this year. Some of my Strange Adventures I’m doing, also.

DA: So was there a point in your life where you figure that you were going to retire and quit doing day-to-day stuff?

It’s “Earth Day” Every Day!

ANDERSON: Well, I had been semi-retired. We’ve overlooked a big chunk of my career, which was with the Army, on PS magazine, working for Will… and then I contracted it from ’73 to ’83. I had a totally fantastic experience. Of the projects that I’ve worked on, that’s the one I most enjoyed. I got a feeling I was doing something worthwhile.

Another of Anderson’s fabulous re-creations, this one of his cover for Strange Adventures #150 (March 1963), with its wash effect by Jack Adler. Editor Julius Schwartz loved coming up with images that turned the planet Earth itself into a major focus of the action. Thanks to Shaun Clancy. [TM & © DC Comics.]

or serials, as we called them. I was really taken by those. And, of course, Tarzan, King Kong, Frankenstein… all those were things that I really enjoyed.

DA: Did they grab you from a visual sense or from a story sense?

ANDERSON: Both. I liked the unusual atmosphere in all of them.

And, of course, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were two serials that I enjoyed. Strangely enough, I saw very little of the Buck Rogers serial when I was a kid. Later, I saw it. And I do have a fairly rough print—not a print, but a video of it.

DA: Being in the comicbooks, did you think about having loftier ambitions?

DA: You got a real sense of satisfaction?

ANDERSON: Right. You go out and meet the troops—meet ’em in the field and so forth. And they all know the characters.

They obviously read the magazine. I know, for a fact, that many dollars have been saved by the tips that come out in PS. Back in the Vietnamese War, they were having a lot of trouble, in the early stages of the war, with the M-16 rifle, which was new at the time.

There were Congressional investigations starting up on it. And someone got the idea of running articles in PS and compiling them into a handbook. And once that handbook was compiled, and we got it out, the whole furor died down. It was simply a problem of

64

The Joyful (& Enviable) Career Of Murphy Anderson

Murphy Anderson drew a portrait of himself, in 1983, surrounded by various of the DC heroes he illustrated over the years—but, strangely, didn’t include some of those with whose penciling he had been most affiliated.

Of course, Buck Rogers (seen at right in a 1986 illo done for a book cover) wasn’t a DC character—but Captain Comet and The Atomic Knights were!

While Carmine Infantino had penciled the first two 1950s “Captain Comet” stores, Murphy drew all the others, including the one for the tale in Strange Adventures #22 (July 1952) in which he and pseudonymous scripter John Broome foreshadowed many of the elements of the Silver Age Green Lantern series—and he did fully illustrate every yarn of “The Atomic Knights,” including in Strange Adventures #160 (Jan. 1964), also written by Broome.

Thanks to Bob Bailey. [DC pages & characters TM & © DC Comics; Buck Rogers TM & © the Dille Trust or successors in interest; rest of Anderson self-portrait © Estate of Murphy Anderson.]

“[Working In Comics] Was A Dream Come True”

65

maintenance. It was a new weapon; they didn’t know how to maintain it correctly.

DA: Have you got anything, in a half a minute, that you’d like to say about the business, in general?

ANDERSON: Nothing much.

DA: You had fun with it?

ANDERSON: Oh yes, absolutely.

It was a dream come true in many ways, because I loved comics from just a three- or four-year-old kid on. And to work in the industry is a great satisfaction.

Murphy Anderson, besides being involved in several Alter Ego interviews, was the subject of an entire book from TwoMorrows.

PS—I Love You! (Above:) Murphy Anderson took over the U.S. Army maintenance PS Magazine for 14 years in the 1970s and ’80s, as exemplified here by his trademark covers for the Oct. 1979 and March ’83 issues. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Fiddling While Keystone City Burned (Below, left & right:) For The Flash #201 (Nov.1970), Murphy illustrated a Robert Kanigher script starring the Golden Age (or “Earth-Two”) Flash, in combat with his 1940s foe The Fiddler. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Edited

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67

Forever Fox

The Family Of GARDNER F. FOX Speak Out About The Man They Knew & Loved

by Jennifer DeRoss A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: In 2019, Portland [Oregon] native Jennifer DeRoss’ book Forgotten All-Star: A Biography of Gardner Fox was published by Pulp Hero Press (see ad on p. 2). Her painstaking research on this project had put her in touch with the surviving family of the late great Golden/Silver Age comics writer. Alas, that did not include his wife Lynda or their children Lynda and Robert, who had already passed away. For this special issue of Alter Ego, Jennifer prepared some annotated notes on photographs of the Fox family, with the kind cooperation of Gardner’s granddaughter Terri and other family members….

B

efore I started doing this work, I was like a lot of fans my age.

I knew Gardner Fox was the co-creator of The Flash and knew he wrote a lot of Justice League of America, but I had no idea just how prolific and impactful he was. This changed when I entered grad school and took a class on

19th-century archives. I had some prior experience doing archival work, knew the Gardner Fox Collection was located at the University of Oregon, and wanted to find a way to continue working on comics at the graduate level. I was elated when my professor approved my plan to work on the collection, but quickly ran into the wall when it came to outside sources. It seemed like the only time he would get a mention was in old fanzines.

Gardner F. Fox

The more I learned about Gardner Fox, the more I saw this as an injustice. And with Roy Thomas’ help and encouragement, I kept finding excuses to go back to the archive. In my heart, I had already agreed to take this project all the way.

in his later years, flanked by the splash pages of two stories he scripted of iconic characters for the first issue of Flash Comics (Jan. 1940): “The Flash,” illustrated by Harry Lampert, and “The Hawkman,” drawn by Dennis Neville. Photo courtesy of Comic Vine website; pages reproduced from the hardcover DC Archives editions. [TM & © DC Comics.]

I took every opportunity I could to squeeze in research time, poring over stacks of letters, digging into the stories Fox had written, and even reaching out to other archives.

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The Family Of Gardner F. Fox Speaks Out

excitedly made plans to meet for the first time. We, of course, decided on a visit to the Gardner Fox Collection.

Beforehand, Terri had some manuscripts pulled and we looked over them together, talking about the themes and such that come up across his work and quietly laughing at the awkwardness in reading editors’ notes asking her grandfather to increase the sexual content. It did not go unnoticed that her daughter was quite skilled, as she sat near us sketching.

Fox Family & Friends (Left to right:) Jennifer DeRoss, Terri Fox, and Julia Fox. Terri and Julia are Gardner’s granddaughter and great-granddaughter, respectively. Terri took this selfie to commemorate her and Jennifer’s first meeting a few years ago.

When it came time to try and track down the family, I admit I was nervous. Thankfully, they were very supportive as well. They had previously resigned themselves to the fact that Gardner Fox was an unsung hero and saw this as the same corrective opportunity as I did.

In fact, while trying to gain access to some records from St. John’s University for me, Gardner Fox’s granddaughter Terri found a corrective project of her own. The process of accessing his records took a fair amount of time, and she had to come up with certain proofs of relationship that weren’t readily available. I remember being extremely thankful that Terri was willing and able to take on such a task. During that time, she mentioned to those she was working with that she was surprised her grandfather was not included among their notable alumni. When the matter was brought to the attention of St. John’s Registrar, it was agreed that Gardner Fox did indeed represent the school’s highest level due to his many accomplishments. Sudden awareness caused a buzz across the campus, and there were even plans to center an alumni weekend around his work. Even though the event was, unfortunately, one of many canceled plans in 2020, I was overjoyed to be able to include her success in the ending chapter of my book.

We stayed in contact after I finished writing Forgotten All-Star, and when Terri told me her daughter Julia wanted to visit the University of Oregon, we

The opportunity also gave me the opportunity to learn something new! Terri mentioned that Gardner Fox would mail comics to his nephew, John Fogarty. I was hoping this would help explain why, out of the over 600 comicbooks in this collection, only 20 were from the ’70s and none were from the ’80s. (The largest, noteworthy part of this small collection is Red Wolf #1-8. Created

by Roy Thomas and John Buscema, Red Wolf was the first title headlined by a Native American super-hero. Fox wrote issues #2-8 of the 9-issue series.) During my later talk with John, I discovered this was happening before he went off to college in 1968, so the timing doesn’t line up. Likely, this lack is reflective of Gardner’s waning interest in comics after being pushed out of DC due to his unionization efforts and never finding his footing writing comics in the Marvel method. Still, I loved hearing about how John gained a love of reading through comics, which he would devour both “parked” in his uncle’s study and in his own home.

This love of comics has continued within the family, with Terri now collecting comics written by her grandfather and attending premieres in order to represent the family as more and more of Gardner Fox’s characters make it to the big screen. This includes the recent Black Adam movie, which features both Doctor Fate and Hawkman as part of the DCU’s version of the Justice Society of America.

It Gets Kinda Crowded In The Hall Of Fame!

The splash pages of two of the most important comicbooks Gardner Fox ever scripted: for the first-ever “Justice Society of America” story, in All-Star Comics #3 (Winter 1940)—and the first “Justice League of America” tale, in The Brave and the Bold #28 (Feb.-March 1960). All-Star art by E.E. Hibbard (repro’d from the hardcover archive edition, 1991); Brave and Bold art by Mike Sekowsky & Bernard Sachs, courtesy of Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Forever Fox

69

After our visit, we went downstairs, and Terri told me she had a thank-you gift from the family. She then pulled out several items including a copy of Carty from her grandfather’s bookshelf and a collection of family photographs.

Those photos, along with a few I had before, follow:

(1) (Mid-1920s) A gathering of the generations. The family is a bit unclear on the identities of some folks in this one. Third from the left is Gardner Fox’s father, Leon, and to his right is his sister Kay. The older woman is likely Leon’s sister Ruby. That’s Gardner in the suspenders, and they think the gentleman on the right could be Ruby’s husband.

(3) After Gardner graduated and passed the bar, he met his future wife, Lynda. While the location is in question, this photo of Lynda and Gardner taken in Spring of 1937 is too cute not to share!

One For The Books (2) This cap-and-gown shot was taken in front of Julia and Leon’s home in Bellerose, Long Island, in 1932. While Gardner Fox still remembered his youth in Brooklyn, he spent many formative years in Bellerose. You can just make out the Skull and Circle on his graduation gown. The Skull and Circle is an honor society regarded as the highest that one could achieve at St. John’s.

The cover of Gardner Fox's 1977 Western novel Carty, written after he had retired from scripting comics. Cover artist unknown. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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The Family Of Gardner F. Fox Speaks Out

(4) (Left:) (Summer 1944) Before the end of the decade, the Fox family purchased a cottage on the Peconic Bay in Mattituck, NY. Leon Fox had fallen in love with the area while putting up Long Island’s preliminary phone lines. It was a small house on a bluff surrounded by tall oak trees through which they could see the bay. This is the location for Gardner’s daughter Lynda’s favorite photo of him. Even so, she wasn’t sure who the woman seen in the photo is: either his wife, or his sister-in-law Olga Negrini Fogarty. The family consulted Candy Church, Olga’s daughter, who confirmed that it was indeed her mother.

(5) (Summer 1944 again) Speaking of family, Gardner and Lynda decided to grow theirs by having two children. A boy named Jeffrey and a girl named Lynda, after her mother. It is notable in the story of Gardner Fox that he tended to bring his work with him to the beach, but it is nice to see he also made time to play.

Want a SIGNED COPY of

FORGOTTEN ALL-STAR: A BIOGRAPHY OF GARDNER FOX

by Jennifer DeRoss?

(6) In 1953, Gardner Fox and his family moved to a new house on Crotty Avenue. When his family looks back, this is the place in Yonkers, New York, they saw as home. This was also the address most of his fan letters were sent to and where the occasional fan would show up. The family believes this photo was taken outside that location.

Reach out to jennifer.deross@yahoo.com for personalization rates

Forever Fox

71

(7) (Left:) Also taken outside Crotty Avenue, we have this photo from around 1951, which includes Jeffrey on the left, with Lynda in the center, and a very dapper-looking Gardner on the right.

Every Sunday they had a formal dinner with Lynda’s mother, Raffaela Negrini, whom they called Nanny. Showing the pride they had in their upper-class Italian roots, it was always a shirt and tie affair. Gardner’s mother, Julia, prided herself on having been a Gibson Girl, so he was likely well prepared for this kind of lifestyle.

(8) After Gardner’s mother died in 1967, Leon moved to a house in Alstead, New Hampshire. This photo was taken in that kitchen. Lynda is on the left with Gardner in the center and his sister Kay on the right. Lynda was an excellent cook. She could make classic Italian dishes, as well as traditional American meals. Gardner’s favorites included lasagna, Harvard beets, and Welsh rarebit.

(9) Also taken in Alstead, a few years later, is this lovely little generational shot including Gardner Fox alongside both his father Leon and his son Jeffrey.

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The Family Of Gardner F. Fox Speaks Out

(10) (Left:) This is a picture of the Foxes at their daughter Lynda’s wedding in 1967. They had a special relationship and she would go on to keep her father’s legacy alive after his passing.

(11) (Below:) (July 1970) Finally, back on Crotty Avenue, we have this adorable image of Gardner Fox holding Jeffrey’s son, and his own grandson, Greg. Gardner Fox retired from comics in the early ’70s and found he could make about the same amount of money, or more, writing only novels.

Removing comics from his schedule also freed up about two-thirds of his time, which allowed him to take on additional hobbies and do more with his ever-growing family.

“The Reports Of My Death Are Greatly Exaggerated” The final Golden Age “Justice Society of America” panel written by Gardner Fox, for All-Star Comics #34 (April-May 1947). Art by Irwin Hasen. In the preceding panel, the villainous Wizard had seemed to commit suicide by leaping into a vat of acid. The Flash was correct in his assessment of the mesmeric malefactor’s apparent demise: The Wizard would return in two more 1940s “JSA” yarns, at the head of two different versions of the Injustice Society of the World. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Having grown up with a love of comics through her grandmother, Jennifer DeRoss earned her master’s degree at the University of Oregon, where her main focus remained on the modern American super-hero. She is currently a STEP College and Career Coach, helping people rise out of poverty through short-term training, and her next big project is writing a biography of the father of comic fandom, Jerry Bails.

73

to have…. Although this almost never happens to me, I found this issue’s Fawcett section interesting, with Stanley Kaufman’s memories of Henry Perkins!”

Of course, Pierre, since you’re kind of a regular in the “re:” department, we’re aware that you’ve often mentioned that you’re not enamored of Golden Age material in general… so, since FCA deals primarily with the period 1939-53, it’s bound not to find favor with you all that often… and we’re glad that, for once, it did. Personally, I tend to think that anyone really interested in the history of comicbooks (as you decidedly are) should be interested in all periods… but then, hey, my own interest in keeping up with “current comics” pretty much fell off a cliff sometime during the ’80s, so who am I to talk?

Rob Hansen: “I was surprised that Ron Harris designed the version of the Frankenstein Monster that appeared in Young All-Stars. I’d always assumed he just picked up on Mike Kaluta’s design for the ‘Spawn of Frankenstein’ series in Phantom Stranger in 1973, with the green tinge to his skin just something he picked up over time. [Also, re “vril”:] In the years since you wrote that tale, someone unearthed the story of the Vril-Ya Bazaar and Fete that was held in London’s Royal Albert Hall in March 1891.

Non-SF folk keep trying to claim this as the world’s first SF convention….”

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Our miracle-working “maskot” artist, Shane Foley (who’s now also drawing the online Tarzan of the Apes comic strip that I (Roy T.) write for the Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., website), sure had a wealth of artistic sources to choose from this time—and he chose to work from a Marie Severin Dr. Strange figure from the latter 1960s. A typically fine job—as is the coloring by Randy Sargent. [Alter Ego super-hero TM & © Roy & Dann Thomas; costume designed by Ron Harris.]

And here, as part of our never-ending quest to catch up with our letters pages, is another double-dip into Alter Ego #180 & 181…

A/E #180 was the first issue ever devoted primarily to The Young All-Stars, the three-year comicbook series I conceived (with some help from wife/collaborator Dann) and wrote for DC Comics in the last half of the 1980s, as a follow-up to my much-beloved (and Crisis-destroyed) All-Star Squadron. Although A/E’s readers were delighted with the issue’s interviews with (and illustrations by) Young All-Stars artists Brian Murray, Howard Simpson, and Lou Manna, most of our e- and snail mail had to do with the series itself, and its relationship both to All-Star Squadron and Crisis on Infinite Earths.

For this issue, we decided to confine things to a few brief quotes from some of those missives, with my own rapturous responses set in italics right after them, beginning with: Pierre Comtois: “The spotlight on Young All-Stars started me thinking on why there couldn’t be a revival of it (or All-Star Squadron, for that matter) at DC? Surely, such a revival could easily meet the minimalist sales figures that most of today’s comics seem

Quite frankly, Rob, “Spawn of Frankenstein” was so far in the rearview mirror by the latter 1980s—and I’d never really followed it anyway—that I hadn’t really thought of that version, as well-drawn by the likes of Bernard Baily and Michael Kaluta, as aspiring to do a faithful-to-Mary-Shelley rendition of the Monster… but you’re right, they were definitely playing in the same ballpark. I think I was put off by whoever made the ill-considered decision to color that version green, in the manner of a certain Marvelous monstrosity. My editorial instructions to artist Ron Harris simply amounted to recounting how the Monster was described in Shelley’s novel; Ron took it from there, and excellently. If he was familiar with the series in Phantom Stranger, he never mentioned it to me… and I doubt if he was influenced by it. (See comparative illos on the following page.)

Joe Frank: “DC’s crackdown on heroes you could and couldn’t use [after Crisis on Infinite Earths] is especially galling, considering the radical proliferation of such characters today, where some have half a dozen or more similar variations. Never know which Superman, Batman, or Robin a particular book is offering up. Thankfully, I’ve been conditioned to no longer care. Yours would have been an isolated version in stories separated by decades and with a 1940s backdrop. How much clearer a distinction did anyone need?”

At the time of the Crisis and for maybe fifteen minutes afterward (as Crisis writer/conceiver Marv Wolfman soon ruefully pointed out), there was intended to be One Big Earth forevermore with no such doppelgängers… but that situation didn’t last long before DC began to clutter up its new universe at least as much as the old one had been, if not more so. Still, I’ll cheerfully admit (and often have, including in print): If I’m not going to be the writer of said series, I’d prefer the All-Star Squadron/Young All-Stars never be revived. Yeah, I’m afraid I still feel that embittered by what happened to “my” DC titles in the mid-1980s.

Still, I got to handle well over a hundred DC comics set in the World War II period, and that made it all worthwhile. It was my favorite experience in my nearly six decades of writing comics, eclipsing even the Conan and Avengers comics at Marvel. As I often say: If not for DC’s machinations at the time, I might well still be happily writing a monthly All-Star Squadron comic—and who knows, by now we might even be up to 1943!

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[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

Kaluta & Harris Meet Frankenstein (Left:) Michael Wm. Kaluta’s cover for The Phantom Stranger #26 (Aug.Sept. 1973) depicted both the title hero and the Hulk-green “Spawn of Frankenstein,” who had his own backup feature, generally illustrated by Bernard Baily. Courtesy of the GCD. (Above:) Two panels of the Frankenstein Monster in 1942, as penciled by Ron Harris and inked by Malcolm Jones III, from Young All-Stars #19 (Dec. 1988); script by Roy Thomas. [TM & © DC Comics.]

Dan St. John: “After Jack Kirby’s passing, there were so many things I wished I had asked him to do. So, I ask you: Could I encourage you to write a few JSA stories, set in the 1940s, just in case you don’t last till you’re 150, and DC comes to their senses and wants to hire you again? Personally, I wish you would write your version of the Origin of the JSA, too! I’m not very happy with the one we have!”

Thanks, Dan. Naturally, as noted above, I’d love to pick up All-Star Squadron right where it left off, but that doesn’t seem likely in today’s climate. I’ll live. And, while it would be fun to pen a new JSA origin, I feel the one Paul Levitz devised in the 1970s filled the bill quite nicely, and I’ve never had a particular desire to second-guess it… even if I did write a post-Crisis version of it for Secret Origins. And I did (as related back in A/E V3#9) once plot out a story occurring on the night of the legendary JSA banquet depicted in 1940’s All-Star Comics #3, which met with naught but stony silence from the DC powers-that-were. Their loss, as well as mine.

Derrick Smith: “Though much of what you were compelled to do after DC’s contrived Crisis on Infinite Earths (in order to make lemonade of the lemons resulting from the ex post facto compression of all super-heroic history to events in one universe) was already known to myself or logically inferable, I was most pleased to read a fuller account. That you strove to fill the void left by the removal [of Superman, Batman, et al., from WWII-era history] is as commendable as it is characteristic. What you did with Philip Wylie’s novel Gladiator was truly inspired, despite my dismay at

seeing Hugo Danner as an antagonist, however much the logic of plot development required it. Maybe the end of Young All-Stars was a form of literary euthanasia. I know that after spring 1986 my interest in anything Golden-Age-related that DC designed to pedal waned badly. Your involvement in active projects was all that had kept me buying.”

Appreciate your words, Derrick. Got to admit, I felt much the same way… but then, maybe I’m prejudiced. Still, I’ve no quarrel with those readers who’ve followed the various annals of the Justice Society and its kin over the past three decades since my last outing. It’s that strong a concept! I just never had any interest in following those comics myself.

Walter Simonson: “On page 22 I found the cover of Secret Origins #22, about the Manhunters, credited solely to me. It is, in fact, a drawing penciled by my old studio mate, Jim Sherman, and inked by me.”

We’re grateful to you for giving credit where credit is due, Walt! But then, you’ve always been that kind of guy.

John Benson: “When some items in your collection were stolen at the monthly comics meetings [back in the late ’60s/early ’70s), you did not ‘cease hosting the events at once and never did so again,’ [as you state]. My notice for the August 5, 1969, meeting announces that it would be held at your apartment, reporting the theft in the same notice. Other notices indicate that you intermittently hosted the group until March 1970.”

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one lucky dude, or else he just remembered something the way he wanted to.

“Gotta give Bryan credit. He could easily grab a sandwich and beer before Neal takes a breath. When Bryan throws him a question about Batman, Neal goes on for nine hefty paragraphs before Bryan can get in a point about the Green Lantern postage stamp. I guess I learned a lot about Neal Adams, so I can’t really complain. I still admire him work and I cannot help but love your story about the visit to console you the night your marriage hit a solid brick wall. You can’t make this stuff up, Roy. That is the way I want to remember Neal Adams. A guy who cares.

“I want to mention a Vietnam story I guess no one told Neal about. We were kids fighting other kids because we were told to do it. Confused and frightened. Brutality plagued both sides. Arthur Tripp was a high school wrestler who loved his family very much.

He was just another kid fighting other kids very far away from his home and family. His decision to save the lives of others sent him

Let There Be Battle!

This pin-up by Brian Murray, featuring the youthful heroes battling the baddies of Axis Amerika, appeared in Young All-Stars #10 (March ’88).

[TM & © DC Comics.]

So new bride Jeanie and I must’ve been talked into continuing to host the gatherings a little longer than I remembered, John. Still, the fact that our hosting was “intermittent” after the theft points up our disillusionment.

Michael T. Gilbert: “The picture of Mr. Mind in A/E #180 that you said appeared in Captain Marvel Adventures #34 actually appeared in #35 (May 1944). A tiny mistake for a tiny worm….”

Hey, we were close, Mike! But thanks for the correction.

And now, on to one of our most popular of recent issues, Alter Ego #181, dealing with the art and life of the illustrious Neal Adams— commencing with a couple of guys who had also commented on #180:

It’s A Bird—It’s A Plane—It’s A “Comicbook”!

Bernie Bubnis: “After reading the Bryan Stroud interview with Neal, I’m inclined to believe Neal did not have a steel-trap memory.

He seems to remember facts he wants to remember, and those facts favor Neal’s side of arguments. If he really believed that closing a door when confronting a disagreeing adversary [Robert Kanigher] helped him win an argument the other person felt fear… he was

We interrupt this letters section for a special report from fan/friend Jeff Gelb, who sent this in just a wee bit too late to squeeze into our previous issue (#187), which dealt with missives related to that issue’s focus on FF #1 & Stan Lee. Jeff found this use of “comicbook” as one word—a minor cause célèbre of Stan’s back in the day—on the cover of Harvey’s Harvey Pop Comics #1 (Nov. 1969); cover art by Jack Katz & Ken Selig. [TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

Big Stars For A Small Screen Delmo Walters, Jr., writes: “A wonderful first part to TwoMorrows’ two-part tribute to Neal Adams, and thanks for sharing the memory of that night in 1972 when Neal came to the aid of a friend in need. As to Neal’s artistic contribution to the original Captain Marvel, P.C. [Hamerlinck] forgot to mention those two CBS Saturday morning centerspreads Neal did featuring Captain Marvel back in 1975 & 1976.”

Neal was so prolific, Delmo, that it was impossible to cover everything in just ten pages of FCA. But we’re grateful to you for pointing out those two prominent examples (seen above, left to right) of ad pages that Neal and his Continuity Studio did for DC in ’75 & ’76, featuring the World’s Mightiest Mortal.

Besides Captain Marvel, Isis, Scooby-Doo, Tarzan, and various other liveaction and cartoon favorites, Neal got a chance to do drawings of a childhood favorite of both of his and Roy T.’s: Kukla, Fran, and Ollie. [All characters TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

back home with a Bronze Star, a Silver Star, the Purple Heart, and an exposure to Agent Orange. Those medals and a future cancer followed him home. Another “medal” waited for him at home: the button he invented that said ‘COMICON 1964.’ Just a salute to one of those kids… and the rest of the story, Neal.”

Thanks for sharing your (and Arthur Tripp’s) story with us, Bernie.

And as for the Neal Adams who proved a friend (and, as he says at one spot in the issue, a good listener)… yeah, that’s the way I prefer to remember Neal, too!

Pierre Comtois: “Alter Ego #181 was just what the doctor ordered!

A whole issue dedicated to Silver Age great Neal Adams, definitely one of the finest artists to work in the field of comics; among the

top five or half dozen, to be sure. But I didn’t always feel that way.

Count me among those younger readers you mention in your introductory remarks who, along with Stan, not only didn’t get Adam’s loose layouts, but his very style of art! I vividly recall when he began on The X-Men and my young self being jarred by the contrast between him and artists like Don Heck. I thought his anatomy grossly exaggerated, like looking at people in a funhouse mirror. Thus, I dropped The X-Men from my must-buy list and merely suffered through his work on The Avengers because I liked The Avengers more than I liked The X-Men. (Strangely, I liked him on ‘Batman,’ likely due to his cool interpretation of the Darknight Detective, but then, I likely didn’t make the connection between that artist and the one who was ruining my X-Men!)

“But that was then. When I began buying up back issues in the mid-’70s and once more came upon those X-Men and Avengers issues… well, something changed or maybe my tastes had matured, but I found that I loved Adams’ style! So it was with great sorrow that I learned of his death at a much too early age. Alter Ego #181 was a fitting tribute to Adams, filled as it was with items and interviews I hadn’t seen before, particularly those by Bryan Stroud and Richard Arndt.”

Yeah, although Neal ascribed relatively low official sales figures on some of his DC and Marvel titles to multiple copies that “fell off a truck” and wound up in the hands of unscrupulous dealers (well, crooks, actually), I’ve always felt that an additional factor was the relative maturity and sophistication of his artwork—which demanded a bit more understanding and effort on the part of the reader than did most comicbook storytelling.

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comicbook field. I was known then primarily as the resident comicbook reviewer for the fairly popular fan magazine Amazing Heroes (from Fantagraphics). But I also wrote several of the so-called ‘Hero Histories’ that mag liked to run. Among these was an extensive, two-part history of The X-Men—both the original team and the one that first appeared in Giant-Size X-Men #1. My ‘research’ for said articles, naturally, included re-reading all the stories up to that point.

“My memory—and keep in mind, this is a memory from now nearly forty years agone!—is that the final original issue of the first series (#66) also carried inside it the then-required annual Statement of Ownership. These statements, as I am sure you will recall, included among other information the sales figures for the particular books in which they appeared.

As I recall (and someone with current access to that actual book could quickly check me out), at the time the Statement of Ownership appeared in that final issue, it was declared that average sales of X-Men at the time were around 175,000 copies per issue. [EDITOR’S NOTE: Actually, R.A., the figure was 199,571, although I was always told not to put too much faith in those published numbers.]

“How times have changed, huh? Sales that were not high

Nice View, Huh? A key Ant-Man page from the “Journey to the Center of the Android” chapter of The Avengers #93 (Nov. 1971), courtesy of Roy Thomas (script), Neal Adams (pencils), Tom Palmer (inks)—and Barry Pearl, who supplied the scan. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

After all, look at other titles during that period, when the age of comics readers still averaged out a bit younger than it would a few years later, which also struggled to find a sustaining audience: Jim Steranko’s S.H.I.E.L.D., Gene Colan’s and my late-’60s Doctor Strange, etc. Even in the early ’60s, I’ve always felt that the relative sophistication of Joe Kubert’s artwork was one reason that the first round of “Hawkman” in The Brave and the Bold didn’t earn the Winged Wonder his own title, as had happened with “The Flash,” “Green Lantern,” and would soon happen with “The Atom.” Even so, the increasing sales of Neal’s and my X-Men did lead to at least an X-Men reprint series that kept the characters alive… and our Avengers work sold at least as well as issues before and after them.

R.A. Jones: “In your opening editorial, you made mention of the sales figures on the X-Men comicbook series during the time when you and Neal (and others) were co-producing such a terrific run of stories—and that comment sparked a memory of my own.

“Back in the mid-1980s, I was making some of what became my own many (albeit minor) contributions to our beloved

“Look! Up In The French Sky!” From the south of France, Roy’s old friend Jean-Marc Lofficier informs us: “I think the biographer forgot to include in his list the ‘Superdupont vs. Superman’ pastiche that Neal drew for Fluide Glacial #80 (1983)—the same French humor comic that published Carmen Cru, which you probably recall. That ‘Superdupont’ tale was written or at least scripted by Marcel Gotlib and Jacques Lob.” Thanks for the scans, mon ami! [Superman TM & © DC Comics; Superdupont & other art TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

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[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

enough to keep a book afloat back then—would probably make it one of the top-selling titles on the stands today!”

Amen, brother! As I said above, the same went for that era’s Doctor Strange and probably a few other Marvel and DC mags as well.

James Rosen: “While I was much honored to be allowed to contribute an essay to Alter Ego in tribute to the late, great Neal Adams, I must correct some inaccuracies in the captions that ran beneath the two previously unpublished sketches by Neal, taken from my collection, that accompanied the essay.

“The Green Arrow profile that appeared on page 17 was not drawn for me; rather it was a convention sketch, circa 1970-72, that I purchased on eBay about six years ago.

“Likewise, the sketch of a nightclub on p. 19 was not gifted to me by Neal, nor did he tell me he had no recollection of where or when it was done. In fact, that sketch was another of my eBay acquisitions in June 2020, and it came with a letter from the previous owner detailing its provenance. The sketch was rendered on the back of a manila envelope postmarked March 1977 and mailed by an unknown sender to the Writers & Artists Agency on West 56th Street in Manhattan. How the envelope wound up at Continuity studios is unknown.

However, when the eBay seller, Rob Stolzer, shipped the item

Here’s To The “Losers”!

(Above:) Splash page from the second “drug issue” of Green Lantern (#86, Oct.-Nov. 1971), by Denny O’Neil (writer), Neal Adams (penciler), & Dick Giordano (inker). Thanks to Bob Bailey. [TM & © DC Comics.]

(Right:) An exciting page penciled by Neal Adams, inked by Tom Palmer, and written by Roy Thomas from The X-Men #63 (Dec. 1969), featuring Ka-Zar and Zabu as well as a couple of mutants. [TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Stan Lee and Roy T. at Marvel, and probably their editorial colleague Julius Schwartz at DC, were uneasy about the possibility that the diagonal panel borders and wild layouts, etc., might scare off some younger readers... and it seems likely that they did. But, despite both the above-displayed titles being canceled after a few Adams-drawn issues, the “Green Lantern/Green Arrow” period of the Green Lantern title remains a highly regarded landmark in DC history—and that era’s X-Men influenced the post-1975 X-Men series that became a major Marvel hit every bit as much as the early Lee-Kirby issues had. Thanks to Barry Pearl.

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when that was actually Neal’s daughter Kristine Adams Stone, with him. (The photo wasn’t labeled in the source where I found it, so I made that goof, without checking carefully enough.)

If readers of A/E #188 have corrections, critiques, or whatever concerning this issue, they can be sent to:

(At least, we hope we’ve pictured the correct couple this time, unlike in A/E #181!)

Also seen is the cover of The Art of Neal Adams, Vol. 2, a collection that featured both DC and Marvel heroes—plus Atomic Mouse, a favorite of the artist’s who’d also appeared on the cover of Vol. 1 of the series, as seen in A/E #181. [DC heroes TM & © DC Comics; Marvel heroes TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; Atomic Mouse TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

to me, he included with it a print-out of an e-mail exchange he had had with Neal many years later, in 2007. Stolzer said he had picked up the envelope during a visit to Continuity in the early to mid-1980s, when the envelope was used to house a Mike Nasser drawing that Stolzer had commissioned. For the next two decades, Stolzer wondered if the nightclub sketch was by Neal. In a reply e-mail dated Sept. 24, 2007, Neal confirmed as much: ‘Absolutely, I did the drawing. I cannot tell you what it was for, exactly, but it certainly is mine. Of that there is no doubt.”

Sorry if I misread or misinterpreted a note of yours about those two drawings, James. But, however they originated, I’m happy and grateful to have been able to print them for the first time ever in A/E #181. And I’m even more pleased to give notice, here and now, that a near-future issue of this magazine (#195, to be precise) will headline more exclusive material from your hands dealing with the late great Neal Adams. Watch for an announcement soon, folks!

And, in closing: Gustavo Medina was one of several readers who noticed a couple of errors that Ye Editor didn’t spot until too late to change them: (1) Neal Adams was born in 1941, not in 1948, as stated on p. 2 of the issue. I doubt that was eulogizer Stephan Friedt’s mistake—more likely a typo when I retyped it. (2) Also, Gustavo points out that the caption for the photo at the end of the article says it’s a pic of Neal and his second wife Marilyn—

e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com And, if some folks out there are interested in joining a classicstyle online group about Alter Ego and comics, try the discussion/ chat group https://groups.io/g/ Alter-Ego-Fans. If you have trouble hopping aboard, please contact moderator Chet Cox at mormonyoyoman.com and he’ll help you navigate!

In addition, John Cimino, who christened and operates The Roy Thomas Appreciation Board, has a feast of comics-related goings-on over on Facebook! It’s the go-to place for what RT is up to—and a whole lot of other stuff besides. (See ad at bottom of page.)

Pulsating Postscript: If any convention promoter or comic store owner would like to inquire about booking Roy Thomas for a future appearance—or if a podcaster would like to do an interview or some such­—he/she should contact that very same John Cimino, Roy’s multi-tasking media rep and good right hand. John can be reached at johnstretch@live.com.

(Photo taken at CCXP23 in São Paolo, Brazil, Dec. 2023)

Neal & Marilyn Adams

Roy Thomas 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135

19942024 UPDATE #2

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ZOWIE!

THE TV SUPERHERO CRAZE IN ’60s POP CULTURE

by MARK VOGER

HOLY PHENOMENON! In the way-out year of 1966, the action comedy “Batman” starring ADAM WEST premiered and triggered a tsunami of super swag, including toys, games, Halloween costumes, puppets, action figures, and lunch boxes. Meanwhile, still more costumed avengers sprang forth on TV (“The Green Hornet,” “Ultraman”), in MOVIES (“The Wild World of Batwoman,” “Rat Pfink and Boo Boo”), and in ANIMATION (“Space Ghost,” “The Marvel Super Heroes”). ZOWIE! traces the history of the superhero genre from early films, through the 1960s TV superhero craze, and its pop culture influence ever since. This 192-page hardcover, in pop art colors that conjure the period, spotlights the coolest collectibles and kookiest knockoffs every ’60s kid begged their parents for, and features interviews with the TV stars (WEST, BURT WARD, YVONNE CRAIG, FRANK GORSHIN, BURGESS MEREDITH, CESAR ROMERO, JULIE NEWMAR, VAN WILLIAMS), the artists behind the comics (JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, CARMINE INFANTINO, JOE GIELLA), and others. Written and designed by MARK VOGER (MONSTER MASH, HOLLY JOLLY), ZOWIE! is one super read!

(192-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $43.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-125-7 SHIPS JULY 2024!

MARVEL COMICS In The EARLY 1960s

All characters and properties TM & © their respective owners.

AN ISSUE-BY-ISSUE FIELD GUIDE TO A POP CULTURE PHENOMENON

by PIERRE COMTOIS

This new volume in the ongoing “MARVEL COMICS IN THE...” series takes you all the way back to that company’s legendary beginnings, when gunfighters traveled the West and monsters roamed the Earth! The company’s output in other genres influenced the development of their super-hero characters from Thor to Spider-Man, and featured here are the best of those stories not covered previously, completing issue-by-issue reviews of EVERY MARVEL COMIC OF NOTE FROM 1961-1965! Presented are scores of handy, easy to reference entries on AMAZING FANTASY, TALES OF SUSPENSE (and ASTONISH), STRANGE TALES, JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY, RAWHIDE KID, plus issues of FANTASTIC FOUR, AVENGERS, AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, and others that weren’t in the previous 1960s edition. It’s author PIERRE COMTOIS’ last word on Marvel’s early years, when JACK KIRBY, STEVE DITKO, and DON HECK, together with writer/editor STAN LEE (and brother LARRY LIEBER), built an unprecedented new universe of excitement!

(224-page TRADE PAPERBACK) $29.95 • (Digital Edition) $12.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-126-4 SHIPS AUGUST 2024!

COMIC BOOK IMPLOSION (EXPANDED EDITION) by KEITH DALLAS & JOHN WELLS

NOW IN FULL-COLOR WITH BONUS PAGES! In 1978, DC Comics launched a line-wide expansion known as “The DC Explosion,” but pulled the plug weeks later, cancelling titles and leaving dozens of completed comic book stories unpublished. Now, that notorious “DC Implosion” is examined with an exhaustive oral history from JENETTE KAHN, PAUL LEVITZ, LEN WEIN, MIKE GOLD, AL MILGROM, and other DC creators of the time, plus commentary by other top pros, examining how it changed the landscape of comics forever! This new EXPANDED EDITION of the Eisner Award-nominated book explodes in FULL-COLOR FOR THE FIRST TIME, with extra coverage of LOST 1970s DC PROJECTS like NINJA THE INVISIBLE and an adaptation of “THE WIZ,” JIM STARLIN’s unaltered cover art for BATMAN FAMILY #21, content meant for cancelled Marvel titles such as GODZILLA and MS. MARVEL, and more! NOW SHIPPING! (144-page FULL-COLOR SOFTCOVER) $26.95 • (Digital Edition) $10.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-124-0

TwoMorrows’ newest mag ships in October 2024.

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