Alter Ego #55 by TwoMorrows Publishing

MERRY CHRISTMAS fr om Roy Thomas ’ Fawcett-Happy Comics Fanzine

With Art & Artifacts By:

ALEX ROSS JACK & OTTO BINDER KEN BALD • VIC DOWD BOB BOYAJIAN MARC SWAYZE • C.C. BECK EMILIO SQUEGLIO JOANNA PANG of ISIS KURT SCHAFFENBERGER BILL WARD & MORE!!!

6.95

In the USA

No.55

December 2005

Vol. 3, No. 55/ December 2005

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant Eric Nolen-Weathington

Our Annual Fawcett Festival!

Cover Artists & Colorists

Contents

Alex Ross Alex Wright

And Special Thanks to: Richard Kyle Neal Adams Andy McKinney Heidi Amash Joanna Pang Atkins Jim Mooney & Richard Atkins Matt Moring Bob Bailey Brian K. Morris Ken & Kaye Bald Albert Moy Bill Black Will Murray Frank Brunner Don Phelps Orlando Busino John G. Pierce Bob & Gail Warren Reece Boyajian Alex Ross Frank Brunner Alex Saviuk Nick Caputo Dorothy Nick Cardy Schaffenberger Dewey Cassell Ernie Schroeder Vic Dowd Joe & Betty Sinnott Michael Dunne Emilio Squeglio Shane Foley Jim Stanley Dave Fontaine Marc Swayze Jenna Free Dann Thomas Janet Gilbert Mort Todd Matt Gore Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Gary Groth Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Jennifer Hamerlinck Hames Ware Russ Heath Alex Wright Mark & Stephanie Rodrigo M. Zeidan Heike Rodriguez Zelis Shayna Ian Tom Ziuko Adele Kurtzman

This Issue Is Dedicated To The Memories Of

Otto & Jack Binder

Writer/Editorial: Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!. . . . . . . . . . . . 2 See You On Groundhog Day!

My First Shazam! Painting . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Alex Ross reveals the story behind this issue’s colorful Marvel Family cover.

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model . . . . . . . 5 Ken Bald on drawing comic books (for Fawcett, Timely, et al.) & comic strips.

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 Vic Dowd relates what he feels is “the typical cartoonist’s story.”

“Comics Weren’t My Main Goal In Life” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Even so, artist Bob Boyajian accomplished plenty at Fawcett & the Binder shop.

Comic Crypt: John Stanley, Part III . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 Michael T. Gilbert completes his tribute to the great Little Lulu writer/artist.

Leonard Darvin Speaks—About The Comics Code . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 Bill Schelly presents Part III of our coverage of the 1966 New York comicons.

A FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) Spectacular! . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 P.C. Hamerlinck showcases a 1973 conversation between Jack & Otto Binder, a “real- life Marvel Family”—Joanna Pang of TV’s Isis—Marc Swayze—a Captain Marvel Christmas—& more!

A Brand New 1943 Pin-Up Calendar & Christmas Cards From The Pros . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Super-star artist Alex Ross clues us all in—on p. 4. [Art ©2005 Alex Ross; Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Above: A panel penciled by Golden Age artist Ken Bald from Bulletman #9 (Nov. 13, 1942). You’ll see a lot of art from this story in this issue! [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Bulletman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year! See You On Groundhog Day! W

ith this issue, I’ve had to bite the bullet (if not Bulletgirl) and ask publishers John & Pam Morrow to cut Alter Ego back from 12 fat issues a year to a “mere” eight for 2006.

I’m happy to say my reluctant decision had nothing to do with sales. It’s just that, with a little encouragement (!) from my loving wife Dann, I sat down recently and added up the amount of work I had to do for next year: A/E every month… The All-Star Companion, Vol. 2, slated for June 2006 (it has the page count of two A/E issues, but needs as much work as at least four!)—two hardcover “bookstore books” for later in 2006… several actual comic books (including at least four issues of Anthem for Heroic Publications, the first of which goes on sale this very month—see opposite page!)… all this plus one or two secret projects. A relatively full plate, considering last month I turned 65—old enough for Social Security and alleged retirement! Poring over the above list, I realized something had to give. And the only thing I could scale back, without giving it up completely, was Alter Ego. Please note I didn’t bump the mag back to bimonthly, let alone to its original quarterly frequency. I did what minimally had to be done—with the fervent hope and intention that, in 2007, we’ll return to monthly

publication with a vengeance. Thus, A/E #56 will go on sale in February—actually, most people will see it closer to Valentine’s Day than to Groundhog Day, but the latter made for a catchier title—and we hope you’ll think it worth the twomonth wait. #57 is set for March (a Golden Age of Marvel superspectacular), then we’ll be monthly from May through August. And we’re already planning out next year’s Halloween and Christmas/holiday issues! Meanwhile, enjoy this month’s Fawcett fiesta, from its lavish Alex Ross cover to—well, to its Liberty Belle cover! Designer Alex Wright put together such a great 1943 pin-up Christmas calendar (just what you asked for this Yuletide, right? Well, it will be, when you see it!) that we just had to restore our flip-cover format long enough to show you WWII movie star Veronica Lake as Libby in full color. Don’t say we never gave you anything! Bestest,

P.S.: Our letters section will be back next issue—cross our heart!

56 A Sensational Symposium of SUPER MEN!

COMING IN FEBRUARY

ADAMS–ADLER–SIEGEL & SHUSTER –and HOWARD STERN? • A superlative “3-S” cover drawn & colored by NEAL ADAMS! • Incredible interviews with Superman creators JERRY SIEGEL & JOE SHUSTER— Golden/Silver Age DC production & color guru JACK ADLER—plus super-artists NEAL ADAMS & JOE KUBERT & TV wild man (& comics fan) HOWARD STERN on Adler’s amazing career! • More surprise features on the Man of Steel—featuring rare art by CURT SWAN, MURPHY ANDERSON, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, MIKE SEKOWSKY, NICK CARDY, ANDRU & ESPOSITO, LEE ELIAS, WAYNE BORING, AL PLASTINO, KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, FRED RAY, DICK GIORDANO, JOE ORLANDO, et al.!

PLUS:

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $60 Standard, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewhere: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

ON SALE In JANUARY!

My First Shazam! Painting The Story Behind This Issue’s Cover Art By Alex Ross Artist Alex Ross supplied this photo of himself, hard at work, as usual.

his issue’s cover is the first fully-finished painting of The Marvel Family I ever attempted. Done as an art swap with my good friend, artist David Williams, it represented my enthusiasm toward these characters, as well as my trying to impress someone. In 1992-93, at the age of 22, I was changing careers from advertising to comics full-time by beginning my work on the series Marvels. Already I had fooled around for years with my revisionist look for DC’s “Marvels,” planning an approach that I would hopefully be able to put into print one day.

for Michael’s features are more like Freddy Freeman’s than Billy Batson’s. Topping it off was the (then) modern spin of model Kathy Ireland as Mary Marvel. Ireland’s features seemed not unlike the Captain’s thick-eyebrowed, puckish-nosed look that I presumed would be helpful in conveying their sibling status. I dressed up The Marvel Family with more muted colors: Venetian red and slate blue with shiny gold fabric, inspired by the Tom Tyler movie serial costume.

This illustration was meant to crystallize a visual twist by going back to the characters’ roots, as well as updating the physical believability. Chief to my inspiration was that a more tangible human representation of Captain Marvel would be his original basis, actor Fred MacMurray. In his youthful prime, when the likeness with ol’ Cap is quite clear, and dressed in the earliest Whiz Comics #2 (actually the first issue, of course) costume, MacMurray seemed, to my mind, the ideal Captain Marvel. Thinking of my childhood influence of the Shazam! TV show, I wanted to put an idea into effect by casting Michael Gray in the Captain Marvel Jr. role. This seemed to me to be appropriate,

Most of these graphic ideas wouldn’t really see fruition in my future comics work, as my first use of The Marvel Family appeared in the future-based Kingdom Come series. Therein, Mary and Freddy were radically changed, and while Captain Marvel followed through with a lot of my original design intent, I had been warned of DC’s hesitation toward direct celebrity likenesses, and dropped the exact homage to the late Fred MacMurray. This painting ultimately proved to be a footnote for my own creative development and creative potential applied to these beloved characters, of whom I still hope to make greater use one day.

Marvel-ous Photos Alex says these photos of Kathy Ireland, Fred MacMurray, and Michael Gray were among those used as the basis of the faces on the painting which currently this issue of Alter Ego. [Photos ©2005 the respective copyright holders; art ©2005 Alex Ross; Marvel Family TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model” Golden Age Great KEN BALD On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More! Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

en Bald is remembered by comic book fans for his selfassured, illustrative style. A graduate of Pratt Institute, Ken simply outdrew most of his peers during his career. Not many artists can go from art school to being art director at a place like the Jack Binder studios as easily as Ken did. Ken’s style lent itself to various genres—a must in those days of ever-changing trends. If an artist couldn’t go from drawing super-heroes to romance or crime stories or Westerns, he soon found himself unemployed. Ken never had that problem. He could change styles effortlessly and effectively: from Captain Marvel to Millie the Model, to newspaper strips like Dr. Kildare and Dark Shadows, and to illustration. To most observers, it appears that there’s nothing Ken couldn’t do—except hide from us when we came a-callin’. This interview’s about the only way we could get this inveterate athlete off the basketball court! Take ten, Ken! —Jim.

“Tarzan In The Elephants’ Graveyard Really Sparked My Imagination” JIM AMASH: Let’s start off at the usual place: when and where were you born?

graveyard really sparked my imagination. I took every art class I could in school, and luckily I turned out well enough so that one of my art teachers, Elsie Nourse, got me a scholarship for Pratt Institute. I did well enough at Pratt that they kept renewing my scholarship each year. In fact, I was number one in my class. JA: Before I ask you about Pratt, tell me about the cartoon contest you won. BALD: Oh, that was when I was little kid... about fifteen. I drew a heavy woman with a kid in her arms and three or four kids running around, while she’s ironing something. There was a load of dirty clothes waiting to washed in the kitchen. Back then, there was a popular song titled “Alone on a Night like This,” but I won’t sing it for you. The woman is singing “Alone.” That drawing won me five bucks. JA: I know that was a big thrill for you. [Ken agrees] Tell me about the friends you made at Pratt. I know Bill Ward was a fraternity brother. BALD: That’s right. Bill was a year ahead of us and was working at Jack Binder’s shop. He recruited a whole slew of Pratt students: Bob

KEN BALD: New York City, August 1, 1920. I was the oldest of five children. My father died in 1931, when I was ten. He was a policeman in Mount Vernon, New York, and worked the morning shift. He had what he thought was only a gas attack, and kept on walking. What happened was that he had appendicitis, and when he came home that Saturday morning, he collapsed in front of us. I was the oldest, and the youngest was my sister, who was ten months old at the time. I had two other brothers, one who was eight and the other, three. Another brother, Clifford, died at the age of four months. A couple of years later, doctors would have been able to save my father, but they didn’t have the knowledge to do so at the time. Unfortunately, my sister and I are the only ones left alive. JA: What got you interested in writing and drawing? BALD: I think most children like to draw. It’s only the ones who keep at it that get anywhere. I used to draw a lot of actors’ and actresses’ faces. Then I saw Hal Foster’s Tarzan in the newspapers, and seeing Tarzan in the elephants’

The Bald Truth Ken Bald circa the late 1940s, looking like he might be in a wedding party, in a photo sent by Dorothy (Mrs. Kurt) Schaffenberger to P.C. Hamerlinck some time ago— —while at right is one of the few Golden Age super-hero stories which has definitely been attributed to Bald, from Bulletman #9 (cover-dated Nov. 13, 1942). This art was restored, with grey tones added, by Bill Black and the gang at AC Comics, publishers of the most invaluable line of Golden Age reprint comics around. (See their comics ad on p. 34.) [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Bulletman & Bulletgirl TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Ken Bald On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More! move to New York, so we moved the studio to 507 Fifth Avenue. That was so much better for me, because I didn’t live in New Jersey and this was an easier commute.

Boyajian, Vic Dowd, Kurt Schaffenberger, Ray Harford, and me, among others, I’m sure. The five of us started at Pratt in the fall of 1938. We spent a lot of time together, doing things on weekends, like going to the Palisades. We’d all go out together with our girlfriends. In fact, three of us—Ray Harford, Kurt, and myself—married the girls we dated at Pratt. Of course, you know I married Vic’s sister Kaye.

Now, you know we were doing piecework on these pages. Very often, the artists would draw a back view of the characters. The Fawcett offices called us “The Backside Binder Studio.” It’s very easy to draw the back of a character in the foreground to hide details. That was a cute joke, but there was enough truth in it that we wanted to change that perception.

I played semi-pro football while at Pratt. I broke my leg just above my left ankle in my last year in high school, though it healed rapidly Dig My Grave Deep… Very Deep enough. Our football team was called the After the first Johnny Weissmuller-starring JA: What did you start out doing in the Binder Courtland Tigers, and we played throughout movie, Tarzan the Ape-Man, was released in shop? Westchester County—our home field being in early 1932, the Tarzan Sunday comics page Mount Vernon, though we played in the Bronx quickly picked up on the concept of the fabled BALD: I started out doing main figures, and I sometimes. We never made that much money. I “elephants’ graveyard,” as illustrated by think I made $4 a page for that. The art cost for played left half and cornerback; I wasn’t very Harold R. Foster. This panel is from the strip for an entire page was around $17.50. I had an heavy, but I was tall enough. I was also a kick 9-25-32. Thank Goro for those wonderful ability to get reasonable likenesses of people. I NBM/Flying Buttress volumes of the complete returner. My brother was a lineman and was may have done some secondary figures, too, but Foster & Hogarth years! [©2005 Edgar Rice bigger than me. We wore leather helmets and as we got busier, I concentrated on the main Burroughs, Inc.] didn’t have face guards until the last year I figures. For instance, I’d draw the Bulletman and played. I broke two ribs in my last game. We Bulletgirl figures, and other artists did the rest. Fawcett was our main practiced on Saturdays and played on Sundays. Then I graduated from account, and then we started producing a lot of work for Street & Smith. Pratt. By the way, my son made all-Ivy playing cornerback at the We did “Captain Marvel” and then, of course, DC sued Fawcett over University of Pennsylvania some thirty years later. that character. That suit dragged on for years and years.

“[Jack Binder] Treated Me As A Member Of The Family”

JA: How did you find out about the lawsuit? And what was the general reaction to it?

JA: Sports is a big topic in my family, too, as my brothers and I are all athletes. So, was Jack Binder the one who hired you?

BALD: I guess they just told us. We didn’t see any real comparison between the two. I suppose you could make every super-hero seem the same if you base it solely on their having super-powers. I did not think Captain Marvel was in any way a take-off on Superman. Billy Batson was a kid who said “Shazam,” and he was not like Clark Kent, a meek and mild adult who only needed to take off his business suit to become Superman.

BALD: Yes. He had a big home in Englewood, New Jersey. His brother Otto may have been living with Jack when I started working there, because I remember that Otto got married during my time at Binder’s. [NOTE: Photos of the Binder brothers appear in this issue’s edition of FCA. —Roy.]

JA: One of the things that was alleged was that some Fawcett artists used Superman art as swipes.

Otto was a great comics writer, and he also did a lot of science-fiction writing. He wrote wonderful comic book stories. He married a very pretty lady, but unfortunately they suffered a terrible tragedy [in the early 1970s]. Their 13-year-old daughter [Mary], who was the apple of their eye, was in high school. She was walking towards the parking lot, bent down to pick up a book she dropped, and some hot-rod kids came pulling into the space and killed her. Otto and his wife were never the same after that.

BALD: That was not true. I never saw that happen. But I was out of comics and into the service by December of ’42. I was only there from May ’41 until December ’42—less than two years. C.C. Beck had a formula for drawing Captain Marvel, so there was no need to swipe from Superman. If someone had swiped from Superman in the studios, I’d have known about it, and that did not happen while I was there. I don’t think C.C. Beck would have stood for that, either, and he more or less saw everything that was done on “Captain Marvel.”

I’d double-date with Jack and his wife, and we’d go visit [main “Captain Marvel” artist] C.C. Beck, and sometimes Otto came with us. Jack had a lovely daughter, and his wife Olga was a sweet, great gal. Jack used to say... I think he came from Michigan or some place with a lot of snow.... “I ran barefooted through the snow to go to school. You guys don’t know what work is!” [laughter] He was a delight! Most guys liked Jack. He treated me as a member of the family. He made me the art director. We first started working in one of the downstairs rooms of his big home, and when he finished fixing up the top floor of his barn, we moved out there. We had close to thirty people working there. After a year, he thought it best to

JA: I agree, because the C.C. Beck I knew didn’t even like Superman, and he certainly drew better than Joe Shuster. I’d like to change subjects now and ask you about the softball games you guys played. You did that in New Jersey, right?

You’ve Gotta Be A Football Hero… Ken (at left) and his brother Walter in 1939. He says it’s “the year before our face guards.” Ouch! Photo courtesy of Ken Bald.

BALD: Right. In New York, we’d work late, but not as late as we did in New Jersey. We were all young then. We’d take a two-hour lunch and play during that time. After that,

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ”

7 Jersey. We’d play each other and, at times, we’d play the Fawcett team. It was fun. We were all young, and then the older guys came in and played with us. JA: Who were the good ball players?

Two Shopmeisters: Beck & Binder (Left:) Otto Binder’s note on this photo he sent Roy Thomas circa 1964: “On the left is Charles Clarence Beck, chief artist for Captain Marvel from the very start to the very end—1940 to 1953. He is now living in Florida and doing commercial art. That’s just a friend in the middle; on the right is Pete Riss, deceased some years ago, who worked in Jack’s art shop while it lasted, then did romance comics, Westerns, and such for Fawcett, Goodman, and several other old-time comics publishers.” Actually, Beck drew the first “Captain Marvel” story in 1939, though it was cover-dated Jan. 1940. (Right:) 1941 photo of the original “studio” in Jack Binder’s home, prior to its moving into the large barn in Englewood, New Jersey. (Clockwise, from lower left:) Vic Dowd (whose own interview follows this one)—Jimmy Potter (whose life was cut short in a training accident during World War II)—Bob Boyajian (his interview follows Dowd’s!)—and Ken Bald. We can’t be sure what feature the lads are drawing—but from the amount of flames on these pages, maybe it’s “Ajax the Sun Man,” a series none of the artists interviewed in this issue recalls ever drawing, but which ran for several years in Street & Smith’s Doc Savage. (We showed a sample of it in A/E #49.) Fawcett and longtime pulp-mag publishers Street & Smith were the Binder shop’s two chief clients. Photo courtesy of Ken Bald.

we’d work and then go have dinner in town. Sometimes we went back to the barn and worked until 11 or 12 o’clock. JA: Who came up with the idea for the softball teams? BALD: I think Fawcett did, so they could play the Binder team. [Writer and sometime editor] Rod Reed—whom I liked very much—got the Fawcett team together. We had been playing among ourselves in New

BALD: Well, if you asked Rod Reed, he’d have said I was Pee Wee Reese [Hall of Fame shortstop of the Brooklyn Dodgers. —Jim.] We weren’t outstanding, but were good enough. JA: I’ve read that Mac Raboy was a good ball player. BALD: Otto Binder said that, and you know, he was wrong. Mac did not play with us. Possibly Otto had Mac confused with me. I don’t know why he thought Mac played. JA: Did C.C. Beck play?

BALD: No, he didn’t. I knew Beck through Jack Binder and we did some of the “Captain Marvel” stuff, but I didn’t see much of Beck during that period. After the war, I saw Beck and his wife Hildy, who was very nice. I went out to dinner with my date and the Becks a few times before the war. I liked C.C. very much. Jack was a charmer, and I couldn’t have had a better boss. He was like an older brother, in a way. JA: Did everyone else feel the same way about Binder? BALD: No. No, but a lot of fellows really liked him. He had trouble with a couple of fellows. One fellow—I hesitate to give his name— didn’t like Jack and felt he was being taken advantage of. JA: Were there any practical jokers in the studio? BALD: Not really, because we were too busy. JA: Who was the art director when you started working there? BALD: Actually, Jack was. There were only five or six guys there then. But when the studio got bigger, a very nice fellow named Peter Riss became the art director. Pete didn’t like the job; he wanted to do his own stuff. That’s when Jack asked me to be become the art director. I thought the money was pretty good, and I could still do the main figures on the pages as well as drawing the covers.

“The Prestige Of Being A New York Studio” JA: So you were paid a salary for being the art director, but you also got paid for your other work.

We’ll Root, Root, Root For The Home Team We’ve run this photo of the Binder studio baseball team twice before—including just last issue—but couldn’t resist showcasing it again, this time with Ken Bald’s personal IDs of most of the players. Artist Nat Champlin told us in A/E, Vol. 3, #3, that he “set the camera on delayed action and jumped back into the picture”—and still managed to look nice and relaxed, third from the left, sitting! Unidentified by Ken in the photo are two of the standees: Dick Rylands (second from left) and John Westlake (on far right). Ken adds the info that this pic was taken “across the street from the studio—one of our two-hour lunch and softball breaks—1941.”

BALD: Oh, yeah! And when we moved to New York, the glasspaneled door read “Jack Binder Studios - Ken Bald, Art Director.” That was the office part for Jack, Wendell Crowley, and myself. The rest were in a great big room, and at one point, there were 35 artists in there. I was thrilled to see my name on that door. Now, the guy who had painted all this stuff on the door had just left, when the phone rang inside the office. I turned the door knob and pushed the door with my shoulder. The knob didn’t turn fully and the glass breaks and shatters on my feet! [laughs] I thought,

8 JA: What do you remember about Wendell Crowley? BALD: I remember his voice and his height. It took a lot to make Wendell laugh. He had a serious countenance and was the serious one. He saw things in numbers, but he was certainly easy enough to get along with. We were pretty different from each other. JA: Did you know Al Allard? BALD: He was an art director for Fawcett, and I think he came out to Binder’s when we had the ball games and picnics. The Fawcett employee I knew the best was Rod Reed. We got along very well and he was astute enough to think I played shortstop like Pee Wee Reese. [laughter] Years later, Kurt showed me a letter that Rod had written, and in that letter he asked about me, and that’s when he made the Pee Wee Reese comment.

Takin’ A Whiz It’s generally difficult, if not impossible, to be certain which stories Ken Bald drew for Fawcett, but at one time or another he worked on Captain Marvel, Spy Smasher, and (earliest) Golden Arrow—all pictured in this ad for Whiz Comics, which appeared in Spy Smasher #7 (Oct. 1942). [©2005 DC Comics.] But—the beneficent Mr. B. drew the sketch at right of the Big Red Cheese specifically as a gift for Jim Amash. And, incidentally, for the rest of us! [Art ©2005 Ken Bald; Captain Marvel TM & ©DC Comics.]

“Oh, my God!” But Jack was great about it, and called the guy back to replace the glass. I felt like such a dumb kid. And I was a kid! I was 21 at the time. It’s one of those things you never forget! Now, I lived in Mount Vernon, and it used to take me two hours each way to get to Pratt. When I got home, I’d have to do my homework. But when you’re young, you don’t need much sleep and can keep those kinds of hours. When I got the job with Binder in New Jersey... now, if I’d had a car, I could have gotten there in a half hour. But I had to take a trolley, then the subway, and finally a bus. I did that for one month before Vic Dowd and I decided to share a room close by. We did that until Vic got appendicitis. Oh, he was so sick! He didn’t come back to work for Binder after that. They had sulfa drugs by then, so Vic was able to get the treatment he needed. They didn’t have those drugs when my father was stricken, or they’d have been able to save his life. After Vic left, Kurt Schaffenberger and I took a room together at Ma Bogart’s house. JA: Why did Jack Binder move his operations to New York? BALD: I think because we were doing so much work for Fawcett and Street & Smith that he wanted to be closer to them. And there was the prestige of being a New York studio. JA: How much artwork did Jack Binder do in the shop? It seems like he’d been too busy to do a whole lot, but I know he signed a lot of stories. BALD: He didn’t do any of our artwork, but he had done artwork. I remember him coming around showing us how to draw an ear. He had a formula for drawing the inside of an ear and so forth. He did some artdirecting, initially, but I never saw him put pencil or pen to paper. He was like the company salesman; he got us the work. Wendell Crowley handled all the business and the numbers—he was the office manager.

“Doing Comics Gave Me A Very Good Idea Of How To Tell A Story” JA: How long were you Jack Binder’s art director? BALD: Less than a year and a half. I became art director in August or September of ’41 and held that position until I left for the service. Outside of what I told you earlier, my duties included making sure the artists did what they were supposed to do and that the work got out on time. JA: Did the fact that you started out as a peer and then became a boss have any effect on the others? BALD: Not then, but when I came back from the service, Jack Binder and Beck wanted me to become art director for the group that they had. I did it as a favor for Jack, but left after a month, because I could see some of the fellows didn’t like being told to change this or that. I didn’t want any part of that. I’d been a captain in the Marines. I left to do my own stuff. There weren’t problems like that during my first go-round. I think everyone took it well when I was in charge. JA: In Steranko’s History of the Comics, Otto Binder gave you a lot of credit with regard to how the pages were divided up between the artists. How involved were you in that? BALD: I had a lot to say about it. Doing comics gave me a very good idea of how to tell a story. The reader should know what’s going on without word balloons explaining everything, though text is important. I felt some artists didn’t do that. We were there to tell the story. We didn’t break up panel arrangements in the way that it’s been done since, but we tried to get a variety of shots so we could get rid of that “Backside Binder” reputation. I can’t take that much credit for the division of labor, but Jack and I had something to do with how it was done. JA: What do you remember about your Street & Smith work? I have you listed as doing “The Shadow,” “Rex King,” “Doc Savage,” “Blackstone the Magician,” and “Ajax the Sun Man.” And did you prefer working on these features as opposed to Fawcett’s? Or did it matter? BALD: I don’t remember “Ajax the Sun Man,” but I remember the others. It didn’t really matter what company I was doing work for, though I did like “Blackstone the Magician” and “Doc Savage.” I did “Spy Smasher,” “Golden Arrow,” “Captain Midnight,” and “Bulletman”

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ” for Fawcett, along with “Captain Marvel.” Almost all the Fawcett characters fought the Nazis and Japanese, whereas the Street & Smith characters didn’t do that. At least, that’s the way I remember it. I was just doing the main figures, so no, it really didn’t matter much to me what characters I drew. JA: Did you ever have to deal with people from Street & Smith? BALD: Not really. We’d meet with their art directors, but I can’t recall dealing with them very much. JA: There were a couple of other companies the Binder studios did work for, and I want to see if anything jogs your memory here. In 1942, I have you listed as drawing “The Black Owl” for Prize Comics. Does that ring a bell? BALD: A little, tiny one. Maybe if I saw the character, I’d remember, but chances are that I didn’t do but a story or two of him.

9 Make Mine Millie

women you ever saw. [mutual laughter] He did that all through his career. There were two bigbusted gals, who were practically nude, on this poster. A pirate had one of each arm and the captain was yelling, “I said I wanted a pair of oars! Oars!” At the beginning, Bill did breakdowns for the rest of us. One guy would then pencil main figures, another penciled secondary figures, another did backgrounds, and then the inkers did the same thing. We’d all sign our names on the backs of the original art, detailing what we had done. It was a production line—everything was piecework. Bill was fun to be with and he was one of the best dart players I ever saw. He’d travel around and play in competitions. He won more darn trophies than anyone I ever knew. JA: Bob McCay, who was Winsor McCay’s son. BALD: He worked for Binder for a while, while I

JA: I also have you listed as doing “Captain Battle” for Lev Gleason Publications. The editors there were Charlie Biro and Bob Wood. BALD: I remember that I did that, but nothing else comes to mind. I don’t really remember much about Biro and Wood, except that they came up for lunch a time or two. JA: Ned Pines owned a company that went by several names over the years—the main one being Standard. According to Jerry Bails, you did “Doc Strange” and “Fighting Yank.” BALD: Yes, I did those. I remember them better than my Biro and Wood work. I believe Ned Pines called the company “Standard” at the time. But my memory stops there.

“The Top Guys” JA: I’d like to throw some names at you and hear what you remember about some of the people you worked with at Binder’s. Let’s start with Pete Riss. BALD: Pete Riss was awfully good, but unfortunately he died young, after the war. I don’t remember what he died from, but he went pretty quickly. Kurt and I were pallbearers at his funeral. JA: Bob Butts. BALD: Bob was a very easy guy to like, but he was a detailer. I think he liked doing backgrounds more than figures. He could draw a ship and every piece of rigging would be right where it was supposed to be. It was quite amazing, but the thing is, we were doing piecework. He could have made more money if he hadn’t been so exacting, and he deserved to make more than he did. He was no “Backside Binder.” JA: Bill Ward. BALD: I knew Bill better because we double-dated. At Pratt, we had “Sadie Hawkins Day Dances,” based on Al Capp’s storyline in Li’l Abner. Bill would draw gag posters for the dances. I remember one in particular: it had a pirate captain and—Bill Ward drew the biggest-busted

Faster Than A Speeding Bullet, Man Splash credited to Bill Ward, from an issue of Master Comics—as retouched by the AC boys for that company’s Men of Mystery #38 (2003), still available. [©2005 DC Comics; Bulletman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Ken Bald On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More! JA: One of your classmates at Pratt was there, too: Bob Boyajian.

was the art director. He was a nice man, though I didn’t know much about him. He was older than most of us. I don’t believe he did main figures, and I don’t think he was with us for that long.

BALD: Bob was a very close friend and was at Binder’s for a while, before going into the service like most of us did. When he came back, he took a job with the Firestone company in Akron, Ohio, and was there for many years. Bob’s also a heck of a photographer, and has illustrated children’s books. His wife is an artist, and so are his three daughters. That family has good art genes.

JA: I’ve heard two stories about McCay and was wondering if you can shed any light on the subject. John Belfi, who knew McCay in the 1930s, told me McCay was an alcoholic and needed help getting his work done. But Gill Fox—who also knew him—didn’t believe that and said McCay’s problem could have been that he was gassed in World War I.

When Bob moved back East, he moved to Vermont. Now, Ray Harford moved north of New York City and had a little studio up there. Many of the former Binder artists went their separate ways after the war into their own careers.

BALD: I’m afraid I can’t shed any light on this for you. We did have a fellow of English descent who was a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I know he’d occasionally get a phone call and rush out to help someone who needed his support.

One time, Bob Boyajian, André LeBlanc, and his sister and Fawcett Gets The Schaff(enberger) myself went to see a concert of My father was in World War I The late Kurt Schaffenberger was both a talented artist and a heckuva nice George Gershwin music. Many and he was gassed. There were fella. How many Golden-Agers wound up drawing both Captain Marvel and years later, D.C. Cooke asked me two times that he had to go to the Superman at different times? His splash for the lead feature in The Marvel to illustrate a Bible comic that hospital to get help for that Family #84 (June 1953). [©2005 DC Comics.] would be illustrations and text. It problem. seems that André had been doing a similar thing, and I saw what he had JA: Do you remember Samuel Hamilton Brooks? done. They wanted to change the format, so I ended up doing the illustrations. I did these in the late ’60s and into the early ’70s. BALD: Yes, I do. A Southerner. When I think of him, I have to smile, because he was such an enjoyable person to be around. He wasn’t one of the top guys, but he was all right.

“Looking At The List Of Shop Personnel”

JA: Al Bare.

JA: What do you remember about Vince Costello or Nat Champlin?

BALD: Al was a friend of mine; a big fellow who I referred to as “the Bear.” Of course, I lost contact with everyone when I went into the service, so I don’t know how long he stayed with Binder. Another very nice man.

BALD: Not too much. Vince was a good guy and a good artist, but I didn’t really spend any time with him, or with Nat Champlin for that matter. We just worked in the studio together.

JA: Another guy who worked there was Jimmy Potter. BALD: Oh, yes. He was the guy who was killed during the war. Jimmy never even went overseas. What a shame! He was an amateur boxer in Golden Gloves competition. He was an artist, but I don’t remember how good he was. Look, there wasn’t that much difference between us at the studio in terms of talent. I just happened to be the one who was singled out as the art director. Most of us had the same talent level, though I may have been a little better in drawing figures. JA: Why do you think you were made art director? BALD: I really don’t know. I think Jack Binder took a particular liking to me. I know one thing that possibly influenced his decision. He had us all in there right after Peter Riss stepped down as art director. Jack started finding fault and questioned our motivation. I spoke up because I took offense at that, and maybe that did it. He saw I was motivated and that’s what he was looking for. Several of us were doing main figures, and any of us could have done the art director’s job, if drawing ability was all that mattered. I was paid for being the art director and also for doing the covers. I was happy with the money I made.

JA: Al Duca. BALD: Oh yes, I remember Al. Al was a funny guy. If anybody would have pulled a practical joke on someone, it would have been Al. I’m not positive, but Al may have been a background man. I remember that he used to exercise in the mornings. John Westlake was there, too. He was a quiet sort of guy. You know, everybody got along with each other, but it wasn’t like we all got to be close friends. There wasn’t always time for that. Even so, my memories of all these guys are pleasant, and I look back at them with great fondness. JA: How about Dick Rylands? BALD: Oh, yeah! A big fellow who looked like he belonged in the movies. JA: Clem Weisbecker. BALD: I did know him. [laughs] Clem was a character, but a helluva talented artist. He could turn out a lot of stuff. He drank a bit, so you couldn’t bet the ranch that he’d get the work in on time. I didn’t know

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ” him socially, but when you’d see him, he’d keep you laughing. John Spranger worked there, too. Another talented man, who got into newspaper strips and worked for Will Eisner on The Spirit. But I didn’t get to know him, either. JA: Owen Middleton. BALD: Oh, yes. I think he was an Englishman, and he worked in the New York offices, if I’m not mistaken. JA: Was he the fellow you mentioned earlier, in regard to being involved with A.A.? BALD: That’s quite possible, but I’m not prepared to swear to that at this late date. I’m just not sure. JA: Okay. Don Rico, who later spent years working for Timely Comics, is listed as having worked for Binder. Do you remember him? BALD: I think he did do some work for Binder, but that’s all I can say about him. That name is very familiar to me. JA: I know you talked to Mark Voger about Kurt Schaffenberger in Alter Ego #26, but we can’t leave him out here. BALD: I agree. We were very close friends, and he was a very good artist. He went right into doing main figures at Binder’s. He was fun to be with and he stayed with the comic books. He liked doing comics and was happy doing that. He developed a consistent style that made his stories fun to read.

In looking at the list of shop personnel at Binder’s, I now remember Sid Davignon. He was a little guy.

“I Was Proud Of My Time In The Marines” JA: You went into the service on Dec. 7, 1942. Were you drafted or did you volunteer? BALD: I volunteered to go into the Marine Corps. I could have stayed out a little longer because I was the main support for my mother, but I wanted to fight for my country. I debated between going into the Army Air Corps or the Marines, but my eyes weren’t good enough for the Air Corps, so it was the Marines for me. My brother Walter flew B-17s and won a lot of medals and awards. He did his share during the war. I was proud of my time in the Marines. I was with a great outfit: the Fifth Marines, First Marine Division. We were at Guadalcanal, New Britain, Peleliu, and Okinawa, among other places. We were on Okinawa when the war ended, and by that time I was the regimental intelligence officer. We went to Beijing to accept the Japanese surrender. The Japanese did not want to surrender to the Chinese. I was overseas for 25 months. JA: Did the fact that you had a college education enable you to go in at a higher rank? BALD: No. I went through boot camp and then to Officers Candidate Class. I was a “90-day wonder”—as they called us then—and they made me a second lieutenant. When I first went over, I had a machine-gun platoon in New Britain, but then I got into reconnaissance. I read aerial

An Artist At War This spread of drawings by “Lt. Kenneth Bald” on the hard-won Pacific isle of Peleliu appeared in the Marines’ own Leatherneck magazine in early 1945. At that time, World War II still had half a year to go against the Japanese—and would probably have gone on a lot longer, if not for the atomic bomb.

Ken Bald On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More!

photographs and kept records of how many soldiers were captured or killed—that sort of stuff. Most of the times, I was in observation posts on patrols. JA: Did you do any artwork in the service? BALD: Yes. I did rough drawings of various things I saw. When I got a chance to relax a little before going back into combat, I’d go to a little island off of the Solomons called Pavuvu. I took those drawings and finished them off in ink. A PR guy took my drawings and sent them off to the States to be published in Leatherneck Magazine. They loved my stuff and sent me ink and pen points; I must have done ten or more pieces for them. They gave me a lot of publicity, which was very nice.

JA: Has Stan changed much since you first met him? BALD: No, he’s pretty much the same. Stan was always a workaholic. We always had fun together. I only worked for Stan for a couple of years or so, though much, much later, I painted two horror covers for Marvel. One was for Dracula Lives!, and I can’t remember the other title, but the cover was of two men opening a sarcophagus and behind them was a wolfman. Stan asked me to do them, but they didn’t pay much. Later on, my agent sold them for twice as much as I got when I did them. [laughs] Times have changed! JA: Was Stan the only editor you dealt with? BALD: On the comics, he was. I did work on some of their magazines, like Stag, for editor Mel Blum. I liked him very much. He was quite deaf and was a big fellow. Stan and Joan and Kaye and I went to some of his weightlifting competitions in the early 1950s. Mel was quite a fellow.

“[Stan Lee] Was Referred To As “The Boy Wonder” JA: When did you get out of the service? BALD: I came home in January 1946. Kaye and I got married Oct. 30, 1943, just before I went overseas. I was a captain when I left the service, as you know. After the war, I worked with Clarence Beck for a month. Pete Costanza was there, but I didn’t have an occasion to spend any time with him. Ray Harford was working there, too. Some of the fellows who had been at Binder’s worked for Beck, as well as a few fellows I didn’t know.

“I Did Whatever Stan Asked Me To Do”

But I wanted to go out on my own, which was why I left. I went around to the publishers and that’s when I met Stan Lee. He and I hit it off right away and we became friends. Besides Millie the Model, he also had me do something called Willie. Kaye had a chance to sing for Ray Ventura’s orchestra. In 1946, we went over to Paris together and I wrote and drew Millie the Model while I was there. We were there for six months and then Kaye’s contract was up, though they wanted to renew it. But I wanted to get back to New York, which we did in 1947.

JA: Before we get into that, I’d like to stay with Timely a little longer. Did you always ink your pencil work? BALD: Yes. I also wrote. This was my first venture into comic book writing. I wrote Millie the Model in addition to drawing it. In fact, when I was in Paris, I sent in complete jobs, except for the lettering. I think I did a couple of Cindy comics, and maybe some romance stories, too. I did Mitzie and Junior Miss. Really, I did whatever Stan asked me to do.

JA: So this was the first time you met Stan Lee. I have a credit for you as having drawn “Hurricane” for Timely in 1941. Is that accurate?

JA: You’re listed as having drawn some Venus comics. Do you remember that character?

BALD: No. I didn’t meet Stan until 1946.

BALD: I don’t remember Venus.

JA: What was Stan like when you met him? BALD: He was referred to as “the boy wonder” when I met him. He was a nicelooking, tall, thin man. Stan was impressed by my having been a Marine. We double-dated almost immediately. He gave me all the work I wanted, and we’ve been friends ever since. My wife and I visit Stan and Joan every year and stay with them.

Stan was great to work for. He always had a quick mind. I think of myself as a commercial artist, and you have to think about the money you make. I thought I made better money just doing covers. Timely didn’t pay as well as some of the other companies. I was trying to get out of comics because I wanted to be an illustrator and do advertising art, which paid much better.

Dracula Lives—But Not For Much Longer Several years after drawing the Dark Shadows comic strip, Ken painted the cover of Marvel’s black-&white horror comic Dracula Lives! #12 (May 1975), at the behest of his old friend and employer Stan Lee, as well as that of editor Marv Wolfman. The magazine, however, expired with the next issue. Too bad Drac never got to meet Barnabas! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

JA: She was a beautiful blonde with a flowing white dress who was called “The Goddess of Love.” [mutual laughter] Doesn’t ring a bell, does it? [Ken is still laughing as he says “No.”] Ahhh... what the hell! You can’t remember everything! BALD: Right! [more laughter] Ahhh, what the hell! Geez, that’s funny.

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ”

JA: By the way, you wrote Willie, also, didn’t you? BALD: Yes. Maybe that’s why I don’t remember Venus, because I certainly didn’t write it. [laughs] “The Goddess of Love”! JA: I have you listed as penciling it. BALD: Well, maybe I did do that, but if so, I didn’t ink it. It’s possible that I could have penciled some of it. JA: I also have you as penciling Nellie the Nurse.

Millie the Marvel Doc V., ace Timely art-spotter mentioned before, informs us that the title heroine in Millie the Model #4 (Jan. 1947) was written and drawn by Ken Bald in all 5 stories therein, as well as on the contents page and cover! (Note that this is the period during which the “Marvel Magazine” logo was briefly used.) [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Ken Bald On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More!

BALD: Yes, that sounds like one I did.

JA: Did you get to know Larry Lieber at all?

JA: When you wrote, did you have to get script approval from Stan?

BALD: Yes. Of course, Larry is Stan’s younger brother, and he once told me that the reason he became an artist is because he wanted to be like me. I saw Larry every so often, and he’s a very funny guy, too. He’s a member of the Society of Illustrators, so I see him at the meetings every so often.

BALD: No, I just brought my stories in. Stan gave me cart blanche. He never asked me to redraw or rewrite anything. As far as the stories were concerned, I’d get a general plot theme for, say, an 8-pager. Not being an out-and-out writer, I thought in terms of pictures while pacing the story, and then I did it. JA: Did you write the stories as you drew them? BALD: It pretty much came down to that. I’d write the dialogue as I drew the stories. I didn’t write up a script first. I wrote, penciled, and inked the stories, and then turned the job in. I wrote out the dialogue in pencil, then drew in the word balloons. The rest was left up to the letterer. I did my syndicated strips the same way. I never considered myself to be a writer. I always thought of myself as an illustrator. I could make an interesting picture and keep the reader interested. I always tried to tell the story in pictures as much as possible, so the reader could almost follow the story without dialogue. That’s what makes good storytelling. JA: I most certainly agree. By the way, do you know if Stan created “Millie the Model”? BALD: He could have, but I don’t know for sure. I know I didn’t create her. That feature kept going for years after I left it. JA: Did you ever spend any time talking to people in the bullpen? BALD: No. I never worked at the Timely offices, and the only time I really spent there was with Stan. Except for when I worked for Mel Blum. Stan and I always saw each other when he lived on the East Coast. We’d get together at Longchamps for lunch once a week. One time, coming back from lunch, a bird flew overhead and *pfft!* right on Stan’s shoulder. Stan shook his fist in the air and yelled at the bird, “For the Gentiles, you sing!” [mutual laughter] I couldn’t stop laughing. That was Stan: always finding humor in things.

Around 1947, Stan wrote and I illustrated a small book called Secrets behind the Comics. Stan and I actually formed a small studio in the late ’40s, to do advertising work on the side. We hired a fellow—I forget his name now—to help out as a sales rep. He worked at Timely, too. But Stan and I were so busy that, even though we made a couple of sales, it became more trouble than it was worth, so we dissolved it. There wasn’t enough money in it to make it worthwhile for the three of us. But we always wanted to do things together, though circumstances never worked out. JA: I find this very fascinating, because at that time, Timely was undergoing changes. Publisher Martin Goodman was slashing the number of titles, slowly disbanding the bullpen, before firing them all, though he eventually hired many back as freelancers. Did you guys get this studio together at this time, in case things didn’t work out at Timely? BALD: No, I don’t think that had anything to do with it. Stan was very busy with Timely when we had the studio. I think our studio started and ended before the sequence you described. We didn’t have a formal studio, though we did form a legal partnership. JA: What do you remember about Secrets behind the Comics? It seems like a quirky thing to have done at the time. BALD: It really was. The book just covered the basics of putting comics together, and the illustrations were simple and cartoony. I didn’t do all the caricatures, and of course, I didn’t know any of the people in the studio. This was something that Stan wanted to do—to try to make a little extra money. I don’t remember how much I made on it, though. It wasn’t a grand piece of work, but Stan wanted to do it and I always went along with his ideas. Stan always had worthwhile ideas, and we had fun doing this book. JA: I was told by one former Timely artist that you were Stan’s favorite “teenage” artist. BALD: Yes, I think I was. Stan kept me as busy as he could. JA: You’re also different in the sense that you socialized with Stan. He didn’t do much of that with his employees or freelancers.

A Ken Bald “Cindy” splash from Junior Miss #24 (April 1947) . Incidentally, lest think you this means Cindy Smith had been around for a while—in truth, as scan-sender Doc Vassallo advises us this was essentially its “#1,” inheriting the numbering of failed series. Not that she lasted all that long herself! Her own mag, Cindy Smith, started with #24, too. Oh, and Doc V. adds that he named his now 3-year-old Sheltie pony “Cindy” after Bald’s teen siren! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

BALD: The first time I saw Stan, we actually made plans to get together. We hit it off right away. Oh, there was a time, several years ago, when Stan was planning on bringing out some new characters for Marvel [these books would have been part of the aborted Excelsior line in the mid-1990s. —Jim]. He asked me to draw a character for one of the books—I think the name was Virus—I penciled a page and Stan liked it very much, but while I enjoyed doing it, there wasn’t enough money in it. I hadn’t drawn super-heroes for so many years, and it was fun.

Enduring far longer than Cindy Smith has been the friendship of Ken and Stan Lee—as witnessed by this photo of Kaye & Ken Bald, and Joan & Stan Lee, on a cruise in 1995. Courtesy of KB.

JA: You told me off-tape that you had dinner with the Lees and the Goodmans a couple of times. Even though you never spent much

Cindy, Oh, Cindy…

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ”

time with Martin Goodman, I was wondering if you ever formed an opinion of him. BALD: Well, he was always polite. His wife was nice. Kaye and I often spent weekends at Stan’s summer home and the Goodmans came over a few times for parties. One time, we were all at a restaurant, and Goodman knew I was a friend of Stan’s and that I worked for Timely. He was always nice to me.

“[American Comics Group] Was A Great Outfit To Work For” JA: You worked at the American Comics Group for editor Dick Hughes. BALD: That was a great outfit to work for. I did covers for all their books: Westerns, romance, etc. I enjoyed doing covers, not just for artistic reasons, but also because I got a higher rate—just as I did at Timely. Ben Sangor was one of the owners, and he was marvelous to us. I was at his home, too. He had a magnificent home right off the west side of Central Park. The Sangors treated me very well. They gave me presents at Christmas and paid good rates. I drew stories as well as covers. I didn’t write for ACG. A few of the books were Romantic Adventures, Lovelorn, and Adventures into the Unknown. I was lucky to meet people like Ben Sangor and Dick Hughes. I’m Catholic, and ACG had their Christmas parties on Fridays. Back then, Catholics weren’t supposed to eat meat on Fridays, though that’s changed now. Anyway, the Sangors always had enough kinds of food so that Kaye and I would have a nice dinner. They always tried to make us comfortable. We used to visit the Hugheses at their home, too. JA: What do you remember about ACG’s offices?

Excelsior!

BALD: They were quite large. They had a great secretary, too. I was fond of everybody there. I don’t recall seeing a bullpen; their operation wasn’t as big as Timely’s. Dick and I talked over cover ideas, and then it was up to me to draw them. They gave me a lot of freedom to do what I wanted. I never had to do roughs for them. I liked doing mystery and occult stories because there was a lot of mood in the stories. They were more fun to do than romance. JA: What do you

Circa 1996, when Stan Lee developed some concepts for a new line of Marvel Comics, produced on the West Coast and under the “Excelsior” umbrella title, Ken Bald drew this sample page of a grim hero whose name he recalls as “Virus.” A number of stories were written and drawn for the line, including several by Ye Editor, before Marvel decided the time wasn’t right to introduce a new line of titles. This lapsed experiment deserves coverage in some future mag! [Art ©2005 Ken Bald; characters TM & ©the respective copyright holders.]

remember about Dick Hughes? Was he a talker or was he a quiet sort? BALD: He was neither. He certainly talked enough when there was something to talk about. He wasn’t as lively in conversation as Stan Lee, but hardly anybody is. [laughs] Dick was engaging enough and easy to like. JA: Do you know if Dick Hughes was the one who wrote your stories? BALD: Dick did quite a bit or writing, but they did a fair amount of books, so he couldn’t have written them all. And at this late date, I couldn’t tell you who wrote the ones I drew. JA: Did you spend any time with Sangor’s partner, Fred Iger? BALD: Not really, but I did like him and his wife. JA: Why did you quit working for ACG?

BALD: I was too busy. I got the Judd Saxon strip in 1957, and was still doing advertising work.

Ken Bald On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More!

“For Various Companies” JA: Backing up a little, I have you listed in 1949 as doing text illustrations for Ace Publications. BALD: That’s quite possible, because I was doing pulp illustrations for Street & Smith and other places. JA: From 1949 until 1955, you did advertising comics for Edward Howard. BALD: Yes, we did those for various companies. I did quite a bit of stuff for him. Edward Howard was more into public relations with companies like International Paper. This wasn’t an art service like Johnstone and Cushing. I think the only art being done was done by me. I drew all kinds of industrial books for him. I started freelancing for Johnstone and Cushing before I worked with Edward Howard. I drew some of their strip ads in the Sunday newspapers: Camels, Ford, Ipana, Pepto-Bismol, and others. That was quite a group they had there: Stan Drake, Dik Browne, Gill Fox, Alex Kotzky, Creig Flessel—who was really a sweet guy. In fact, I have a picture that Creig drew for me when my son was born. I’m at the drawing board and my son, who was dressed like a New Year’s Eve baby, is swinging a baseball bat. It’s the neatest drawing. JA: How did you get the Judd Saxon newspaper strip?

Three For The Money Ken sent us this triptych of his comics art: the cover of Masked Ranger #1 (April 1954), for Premier Magazines—a “Millie” splash (note that the words “the Model” were sometimes dropped in the early days) that he believes he did in 1947—and a late-’40s cover for the American Comic Group’s Lovelorn. Is this guy versatile, or what? [Millie page ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other two pages ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

could leave the Dr. Kildare strip. I was offered a raise to do it for six more months, while they looked for a replacement. But they couldn’t get anybody else, so the strip ended.

BALD: In 1956, a fellow from Boston contacted me. He had seen my books for Ed Howard, and had the idea for a strip. He came to see me and I drew a page called Three against the City. It was a feature about three girls who decided to share an apartment. Later on, Alex Kotzky did a strip called Apartment 3-G, which was very similar to our idea.

Kildare was very popular in places like Africa, Japan, Germany, and China. We had a big overseas market—bigger than in the United States. Dark Shadows was with the NEA Syndicate and didn’t have the overseas presence that King Features did.

When we took the idea to King Features, they held it for quite a while and finally decided it was “too big-city” for them. But editor Sylvan Byck liked my work and said he’d contact me if something came up for me. Usually, when you hear that, you figure they’re just being nice, but a year later, they called me to see if I’d draw the Judd Saxon strip. I drew that strip until the end of 1961, while still doing ad work. Right after that, I started drawing the Dr. Kildare strip.

“Settings Were So Important On Dark Shadows” JA: Knowing the demands that a realistically-drawn daily strip requires of you, why did you take on the Dark Shadows strip, too?

The television show was popular, and while they wanted Kildare to look like Richard Chamberlain, they didn’t want Dr. Gillespie to look like Raymond Massey. I actually used my father-in-law as the model for Dr. Gillespie. Elliot Caplin—Al Capp’s brother—wrote the strip and did a very good job. I drew the strip until 1984, when I finally decided to quit. I was just too busy doing ad work.

JA: Oh, yeah! You did a great job, too. It was a beautifully-drawn strip. As a ten-year-old, I used to ride my bike across town to get the Daily News so I could clip the Sundays and copy your work, studying how you spotted blacks and textures. I was always a big Dark Shadows fan and enjoyed your stories, too. You really captured the essence of Barnabas Collins, as played by Jonathan Frid.

Now, in 1971, I started drawing the Dark Shadows strip, in addition to everything else I was doing. I did not have a day off for a full year, which was getting both my wife and me down a bit. Dark Shadows was not as popular as it should have been, so I dropped the strip. In 1982 I started working for Gem Studio, and they kept me very busy doing comps and storyboards. For instance, I did things like Bill Cosby’s Jello commercials. The money was so good that I decided I

BALD: For one thing, I had hopes that it would be a bigger success than it was. I also really liked that sort of subject matter and always wanted to do something along those lines. Creator Dan Curtis called me and I went to see him. Elliot was also involved with it, and while he didn’t write the strip, he sort-of supervised it. I can’t remember who wrote the strip now. I’m really very sorry about that, because he did a great job.

Industrial Strength The (signed) cover of The Crop That Did Not Fail, a so-called “industrial comic” that Bald drew for 1951 publication. He receives no credit inside the mag, but it probably paid better than Timely or ACG, more’s the pity! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

BALD: We had the rights to use Frid’s likeness, but not anyone else’s. They gave me a lot of reference material on Frid, just as King Features did when I drew Dr. Kildare. We couldn’t use the same stories that were being used on television, either. JA: You were doing so much work! Did you have an assistant?

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ”

17 Dark Shadows Days—And Nights

(Left:) Two dailies from 1971, the final year of the strip (courtesy of Jerry K. Boyd) and (left center:) a 1971 Sunday, sent by Ken. The strips are reprinted from photocopies of the original art, and show why his work on the feature is so fondly remembered. We’re not sure if the werewolf depicted is the same one played on the TV series by David Selby, who became a minor heartthrob for a time and wound up co-starring with Barbra Streisand in the movie Up the Sandbox. [Art ©2005 NEA.]

BALD: No. I did everything myself. For a while, a cousin of Kaye’s—Ed Algore—did the backgrounds on Dr. Kildare. Before him, Jim Kelly did my backgrounds. I did my own backgrounds the last eight years of the strip. I thought the settings were so important on Dark Shadows that I did everything myself. Because my name was on Dr. Kildare, King Features wouldn’t allow me to use my name on Dark Shadows. They were afraid of how the strip would be received in the Bible Belt—and they were right—so they didn’t want me to sign “Ken Bald” on that strip, especially since it was with a different syndicate. I used my first two names “Kenneth Bruce” as a signature. JA: Did you get any flack from doing Dark Shadows? BALD: No. The papers who ran it, like The New York Daily News, loved it. They said they received more complaints when I stopped the strip than they ever had gotten about a strip before. It was big in L.A. and Chicago; the big cities loved it, but not enough of the little cities wanted it. JA: You used Charles Laughton as a model for the warlock in one sequence. BALD: Yes, I thought his face was perfect for that. I always tried to use real people as characters when I could.

Kill Him! Kill The Vampire! The vaguely-gothic “soap opera” Dark Shadows became a sleeper hit on afternoon TV in the early 1970s, once the vampire Barnabas was introduced, as played by actor Jonathan Frid. An unabashedly personal note: Marvel associate editor Roy Thomas gave orders, in those pre-videotape days, that he was not to be phoned on his days working at home between 4:00 and 4:30, so he could watch the show—er, in between typing out stories, of course! These two “promotion pieces,” provided by artist Ken Bald himself, were done respectively in December 1970—and “for the warlock story” in January 1971. Beautiful stuff—sent to us by comic art dealer Albert Moy, whose full-page ad can be seen on p. 57. Thanks, Albert! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Ken Bald On Drawing Comic Books, Comic Strips, And Lots More!

“I Had A Good Career” JA: Did you ever suggest plot ideas on any of your strips? BALD: No, I didn’t. I was working so hard in those days that I didn’t want to get involved in that. Elliot would discuss plots with me, but I really did nothing to sway the plot lines. I was always happy with the writing I got. Let me interject this: I did movie posters, book illustrations, advertising art... even did “Great People of the Bible” for Reader’s Digest. Financially, I did well, but I started doing comps and storyboards for ad agencies, and made 30% more money doing that than anything else. Any time you do a finish for an agency, you first have to do a comp, which is a rough idea of the finished piece. That takes time. If you just do comps—which I was doing—I could sometimes do 8 to 10 comps a day. A finish would take more than a day to do. I actually made more money doing just comps and storyboards for the last 10 or 15 years.

Calling Dr. Kildare… Dr. Kildare was a popular character in movies and on radio before he moved to TV, in a series starring Richard Chamberlain and Raymond Massey. This is Ken Bald’s Sunday newspaper strip for April 24, 1966. [©2005 King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

I still do some work for Gem Studio. I worked directly for BBD&O, and for another studio. But I’m semi-retired and I only work now when they are overloaded. I could still be working full-time if I wished. I had

a small apartment in New York and used to work there during the week, and come home on Fridays. I always wanted to wake up Saturday mornings in my own home. Three years ago, I cut down on my work and gave up the apartment. These days, I still play basketball two or three times a week, with my son. We win our share of games, and believe me, I’m in better shape than I look. [mutual laughter] I surprise a lot of people when I play. JA: You ever see yourself completely retiring? BALD: No, because I want to work occasionally. I didn’t think I’d take to semi-retirement as easily as I have, but I like it. I’m catching up on my reading and sketch once in a while, and try to paint. Anytime Kaye and I travel—which we’ve done a lot in the last 30 years—I’ve made sketches of Paris, Florence, wherever we are. That’s relaxing and it’s the only time I do something I don’t get paid for. Otherwise, I’m a commercial artist. JA: Considering how long you’ve been out of comics, does it surprise you that your work is so fondly remembered?

Let’s All Go To The Movies… A film poster painted by Ken Bald in 1956. The heavy black lines framing two sides probably indicate where the art was to be “cut” for printing—but you get to see the whole piece! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

BALD: Yes, it does, looking back on the stuff that I did— especially the older, cartoony stuff—because I’m really more of a realistic artist. I don’t think I drew that well when I drew those cartoony books. I did better on Bulletman, Doc Savage, Captain Midnight than I did on Millie, Mitzie, etc. But I glad I did it, because I learned quite a bit about storytelling and how to make interesting shots in panels, which wasn’t the thing at the very beginning. I had a good career, thanks in no small part to the many fine people who helped me along the way.

“I Did Better On Bulletman Than I Did On Millie The Model! ”

KEN BALD Checklist [NOTE: The following, as per usual, is adapted from information provided by Alter Ego founder Dr. Jerry G. Bails from his Who’s Who in 20th-Century American Comic Books website. Those wishing to know when the updated version of the Who’s Who will be available should e-mail him at JerryBails@aol.com; they will be notified when it is ready. Some data has been provided by Ken Bald, updated via Jim Amash in 2003. Some names of features below which appeared in more than one magazine [e.g., Millie the Model] have not been placed in italics below, even though they may also have provided the name of a comic book. Key: (a) full art; (p) pencils only; (i) inks only; (w) writer; (S) = Sunday newspaper comic strips; (d) = daily Monday to Saturday (for newspaper strips).] Name: Kenneth Bruce Bald [b. 1920] (artist; writer) Pen Name: K. Bruce Education: Pratt Institute; Ontario College of Art Brother-in-Law: Vic Dowd Illustrator: advertising: Air France, Hertz, Xerox; Bible (David Book Publishing Co.), Warner Bros.; pulp magazines for Street & Smith, Martin Goodman’s magazine late-1940s Syndicated Credits: Dark Shadows (d & S) (a) 1971-72; Dr. Kildare (d & S) (a) 1962-84; Judd Saxon (d) (a) 1957-61 Comics Studio/Shop: Beck-Costanza studio (a) mid-1940s; Binder shop (art dir/layouts) 1941-43. Note on Comics Career: Briefly set up studio with Stan Lee to do outside work, late ’40s; won cartoon contest in More Fun Comics (March 1936) COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream US Publishers): Ace Periodicals: illustrations (a) 1949 American Comics Group: Adventures into the Unknown (p) 194953; covers (a) 1949-60; Lovelorn (a) 1949-52; Romantic Adventures (a) 1950-51; Time Travellers (a) 1950-51 Better/Pines/Standard/Nedor: Doc Strange (a) 1942; Fighting Yank (a) 1942 Fawcett Publications: Bulletman (a) 1942-43; Captain Marvel (a) 1942-43/c. 1945; Captain Midnight (a) 1942-43/c. 1945; Golden Arrow (a) 1942; horror (p) c. 1953; Mr. Scarlet (a) c. 1942-c. 1945; romance (p, some a) 1949; Spy Smasher (a) 1942 Feature/Prize/Crestwood: Black Owl (a) 1942 Lev Gleason Publications: Captain Battle (a) 1942 [imprint: New Friday]

Number One, With A Bullet Ken Bald at Columbia U., 1970—plus the final page of the story from 1942’s Bulletman #9 whose splash we printed on p. 5. Bulletman sure didn’t like sharing credit, did he? You’ll notice the feature never became “Bulletman and Bulletgirl.” Maybe he and Hawkman were in cahoots? Thanks to Ken Bald for the photo—and for this incredibly informative interview! [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Bulletman & Bulletgirl TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

Marvel/Timely: Cindy [a.k.a. Cindy Smith] (w/a) 1947-49; covers (paint) 1973/75 incl. Dracula Lives!; fillers (a) 1949; illustration (a) 1947 in Junior Miss; Loveland (a) 1950; Lovers (p) 1949; Millie (a.k.a. Millie the Model) (w/a) 1947-48; Mitzi (w/a) 1949; My Own Romance (p) 1950; Nellie the Nurse (p) 1948; Venus (?) (p) 1948-49; Willie the WiseGuy (w/a) 1946-50; World’s Greatest Songs (a) 1954 Street & Smith Comics: Ajax the Sun Man (a) 1942; adapations (a) 1941; Blackstone the Magician (a) 1942; Doc Savage (a) 1942-43; nonfiction (a) 1941; Rex King (a) 1942; The Shadow (a) 1942

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81, Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

Prices include US Postage. Outside the US, Per Item Add $2 Canada, Elsewhere: $3 Surface, $7 Airmail.

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ALTER EGO #41

ALTER EGO #42

ALTER EGO #43

ALTER EGO #44

ALTER EGO #45

Halloween issue! Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE, WRIGHTSON on his ’70s FRANKENSTEIN, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, SUTTON, and others! Plus FCA #100, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT—and more!

Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER, a celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, AYERS, Hillman & Ziff-Davis remembered by SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA, ALEX TOTH, & more!

Flip covers by TUSKA and STEVENS, yuletide art by SINNOTT, BRUNNER, CARDY, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, & more!

JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special! Interviews with JOE KUBERT, IRWIN HASEN, MURPHY ANDERSON, JERRY ORDWAY, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, MACHLAN, OKSNER, INFANTINO, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ORDWAY cover, more!

Interviews with Golden Age Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and 1940s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, & AYERS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, & more!

(108-page magazine) $8 US

(100-page magazine) $8 US

ALTER EGO #46

ALTER EGO #47

ALTER EGO #48

ALTER EGO #49

ALTER EGO #50

The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! EVERETT/SEVERIN cover, classic 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO & E. NELSON BRIDWELL, FCA, TOTH, & more!

MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY, plus art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN & others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more!

The late WILL EISNER discusses ’40s Quality Comics with art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, & CARDY! EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others! ’40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, TOTH, & more!

Interview with CARL BURGOS’ daughter! Unused 1941 cover layouts by BURGOS and other Timely titans! The 1957 Atlas Implosion, MANNY STALLMAN, and the BLUE FLAME! Also, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER and more!

ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics, with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER and more!

(100-page magazine) $8 US

ALTER EGO #56 (FEB.)

ALTER EGO #51

ALTER EGO #52

ALTER EGO #53 (OCT.)

ALTER EGO #54 (NOV.)

Golden Age Batman artist/Bob Kane ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, the Golden & Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on WILL EISNER, ALEX TOTH and more!

JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE, MARTIN THALL, and more!

Halloween issue! GIORDANO & THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, and others!

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“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last” VIC DOWD Relates What He Feels Is “The Typical Cartoonist’s Story”

Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

his interview is a good example of why Alter Ego exists. Vic Dowd’s career has been documented, though not nearly as fully as it should have been. Beyond that, I’m often surprised at what unrevealed aspects of people’s lives are sitting there, waiting to be uncovered. I’m not just talking about new information on what comic creators did during their careers, but in the non-comics portions of their lives, too. I won’t spoil the surprise for you, because you’ll see what I mean when Vic talks about his war experiences. Around those events, Vic discusses his career at Fawcett and Timely—among other places—and the people he knew. And thanks to the wealth of material that Vic sent us, you get to see how well-rounded and versatile an artist Vic has been over the years. —Jim.

“It Was A Logical Progression” JIM AMASH: I’d like to know about your background and what got you interested in drawing.

(Above:) Vic Dowd before his painting “At the Cannons,” which was displayed at the Westport Arts Center in Westport, Connecticut, in 2003. Photo courtesy of Vic.

VIC DOWD: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, November 7, 1920. I was always drawing. My story is the typical cartoonist’s story. I grew up in a very athletically-oriented neighborhood, in that those were the days when kids played ball without parental supervision. I belonged to a neighborhood team, started playing stickball, and when we got older, we were playing softball and basketball... whatever the team sport of the season was, was what we played. But, as a little kid, my mother never had any problems with me because I liked to draw.

(Left:) Alas, neither Vic nor we have been able to positively identify any comic book work that was definitively his—but researcher Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., sent Jim Amash these two pieces of art from Super Magician #5 (May 1942), published by Street & Smith and starring “Blackstone the Magician,” into which the artist sneaked his initials and last name! The first detail, near the “C!” in case it doesn’t show clearly hear, says “V.C.D. &” plus another name we can’t read—while the second detail, now that it’s been magnified several times, clearly shows the name “Dowd” at the base of an object near the lady’s foot.

It was an uncle who alerted my parents to the fact that I had more than just a typical little boy’s interest in drawing. I was the class artist in grammar school, and it was suggested that I do more with it. I took art classes in high school, and by the time I was finished, I had a portfolio that got me into Pratt Institute. It was a logical progression; each school I went to told me to continue on.

Jim V., who’s kept a record of such things, says that this issue has “some of the best sneaks [of artists’ hidden names] ever to appear in comics!” He goes on: “1st page of ‘Blackstone’ is pure Binder Shop with many hands at work on the center-spread where background artist Clarence Rousch delivers yet another great sneak (oddly, spelling his name Roush!).” Unfortunately, neither Jim V. nor Jim A. has an actual copy of actual issue so we could show you the full pages that went with them, but hey—you do what you can! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

I was always interested in drawing. I used to read the newspaper strips and spend time looking at the rotogravure section, especially the Hearst rotogravure section. I was a fan of Alex Raymond’s work as far back as I can remember: both his Jungle Jim and Flash Gordon strips. I devoured magazines like The Saturday Evening Post, Collier’s, and the women’s magazines, for their illustrations. That was my art gallery. As I said, it’s a typical story for cartoonists of my generation. I made copies of the covers in the magazine sections of the Sunday newspapers. They’d be painted by well-known illustrators like McClelland Barclay and James Montgomery Flagg. As a matter of fact, I went to high school at Brooklyn Tech, which was a very good school, but was mainly turning out engineers. The reason I went there was because they had a very good art department. I took college preparatory courses all through high school, but the extra art was done after hours, so I couldn’t try out for the baseball team, which practiced at 3 o’clock. I

took an hour and a half every afternoon, drawing from a clothed model or drawing each other, if no model was available. I was always drawing people. My ability to draw people helped me get into Pratt. JA: I have a note here that says you grew up in France. DOWD: No, I spent my 9th birthday in France. My mother was French and was a World War I war bride. She married my father, who was IrishAmerican, and in the American Army. He was stationed in France in 1918, which was where they met and married. In those days, when a woman married an American, she automatically became an American citizen, which is very different from the way it is today. My mother spoke English, so she must have had a good education in France. Part of her training was—since these were the war years, and before America got into the war—that in school, she wrote letters to English

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last” fighting men, whose names were assigned to her in school. That sharpened her English and kept up the morale of the soldiers. As far as my being in France, my grandmother was in France when I was a little boy, and we visited there a couple of times. I did live in France for a year and went to school, but I was happy to come back to the United States and rejoin my pals. Besides my ball-playing friends, I found a friend in Brooklyn, who liked to draw and paint. On rainy days, we’d do that together. We’d also go to the Brooklyn Museum—all of which kept us out of the pool hall. In my neighborhood, people played fair and fought fair—no piling on if a fight broke out. I think the movies and church influenced us to be honest people. My sister Kaye married Ken Bald. I didn’t meet Ken until I went to Pratt. We hit it off immediately, and we used to visit each other at our homes, which is how he met Kaye. Ken had a similar background, though he grew up in Mount Vernon. We had a lot in common.

“The Four Musketeers” JA: What was Ken like in school? DOWD: He was low-key, didn’t come on strong, but was very confident and good at what he did. We were equally friendly with Bob Boyajian and Ray Harford. We used to call ourselves “The Four Musketeers.” We met in our first year of Pratt, went to Jack Binder’s together, and stayed friends all throughout these years, though Ray Harford passed away a couple of years ago. Al Duca was there, too, though I lost touch with him after we worked at Binder’s.

year ahead of us in school, but he was a fraternity brother of Ken, Bob, and mine. We were in Alpha Pi Alpha. Bill did wonderful girlie cartoons, even in school. He’d cover the walls with full-page cartoons, with a nice, flowing line. He was a personable guy. He did layouts in Binder’s shop, and so did a wonderful artist named John Spranger. Then, there was a fellow named Clem Weisbecker—a real character from Greenwich Village—who was older than we were. He was a toughtalking New York-accented artist, who apparently did very good paintings of animals. What he did for Binder was to lay out the pages; they were rough and vigorous. Ken and I would rub the pages down with a kneaded eraser before we worked on them. I did main figures, someone else did secondary figures, and another person would do backgrounds. I was good at drawing pretty women, because, as I told you, I’d practiced drawing them from the rotogravure sections of the newspaper. Remember the Petty girls? I used to draw those when I was very young, and Petty drew perfectly-proportioned women, so I developed the knack of drawing them very early on. JA: Is there anything in particular you remember about Weisbecker? DOWD: I remember being amused by him. We used to take these long lunches, which wasn’t always good, because we were doing piecework. If you took two-hour lunches, you weren’t making any money. Being single, I didn’t care and would just work later at night. Ken and I got tired of commuting to Binder’s shop in Englewood, New Jersey, so for a while we rented a room near Binder’s.

Kurt Schaffenberger was there, but Ken got to know him better than I did. Kurt married young, Ken married young, so they socialized together. I didn’t get married until I was 30. Kurt and Dottie got married before Ken and Kaye did—in fact, Kaye was 18 when they got married. Kaye is three years younger than I am. She married Ken while he was in the Marines. JA: When you were at Pratt, did you have a particular art career choice in mind? DOWD: Yes. Ken and I... and I think Bob, too... signed up to take a class with Monty Crews, who was a professional illustrator, doing work for pulps like Blue Book. What happened was the pulps took a big hit when comic books came along. There had been some very good illustrators and writers working in the pulps, like Dashiell Hammett, Austin Briggs, and Ed Cartier. Both Ken and I wanted to work in pen and ink, or brush and ink, so pulps seemed to be the logical place for us to work. But the pulps were dying. Bill Ward was the one who got us to go to Binder’s. He had been a

No Clem—But Here’s The Bill It’s frustrating not to be able to run work by Golden Age artist Clem Weisbecker, who’s recalled in this issue by both Vic Dowd and the Binder brothers (see FCA section). Ye Editor recalls the late Gil Kane mentioning him as drawing “Captain America” stories for Timely during the early 1940s when Gil was briefly passing through Martin Goodman’s company—but, far as we know, no one has yet identified any stories to which he contributed. Bill Ward, happily, is another matter. He can be seen in a photo on p. 7, as well as in this tiny photo of “PFC Ward” from his World War II days. It’s surrounded here by: (Top right:) A strip done for the Army circa 1943, featuring “Ack-Ack Amy,” the prototype of his postwar “Torchy” done for Busy Arnold’s Quality Comics Group. [©2005 Estate of Bill Ward.] (Above left:) A “Bulletman” panel he drew for an issue of Master Comics, as retouched and grey-toned by Bill Black’s AC Comics for the b&w Men of Mystery #38 [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Bulletman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] (Bottom right:) The first of four daily-style strips done circa 1990 for W.O.W. The World of Ward #1, published by Allied American Artists, “a division of Mort Todd Ltd.”—also the source of the “PFC Ward” photo. Note the reference to drawing “Captain Marvel” and to Fawcett editor Wendell Crowley! With thanks to Mort Todd. [©2005 Estate of Bill Ward.]

“Vic Dowd Relates ‘The Typical Cartoonist’s Story’” DOWD: He was a very quiet guy. I believe he tightened up Clem’s layouts and drew the main and secondary figures. He drew with a controlled line; it wasn’t emotional at all, but was well done and clean, and lent itself to drawing “Captain Midnight” or whatever. He drew with a mechanical pencil. Spranger was German, and his pencil line was Germanic. He was a solid draftsman. I probably inked some of his work. I didn’t ink secondary figures. I drew pretty girls and heroic men, but I also inked main figures, so I must have inked some of his work. I also finished some of Clem’s layouts. Another fellow who worked there was André LeBlanc. He drew wonderful villains and secondary characters. He was from Haiti and was a very cocky, self confident guy. I know he had a very long art career. JA: Tell me about Ray Harford.

Shopping Around Did we run this photo of the Binder shop before? No matter—either way, we consider ourselves damn lucky to have it (courtesy of Vic)! Clockwise from top left, where studio head Jack Binder stands puffing on his pipe are: Ken Bald—Sam Brooks (in back, top right)—Vic Dowd (with suspenders)—Ray Harford (also with pipe)—and Bob Boyajian, whose interview follows this one. Wish we had more shots like this!

Getting back to Weisbecker: we’d have lunch and he’d tell these raunchy stories about his escapades with loose women. He was a little guy, not very good-looking, but gave the aura of being completely selfconfident. He was a Jimmy Cagney, John Garfield type. But he could draw, though I never saw him draw realistic people. He exhibited his paintings in Greenwich Village. I don’t know how long he was at Binder’s, but I know he was already there when I started. JA: I’ve heard he had a drinking problem. Do you remember that? DOWD: No, I don’t. I’m not surprised if he did, but I never knew about it. How he got to Binder’s, I couldn’t tell you. I just know he could draw very quickly and lay out a page in minutes. The long shot, close-ups... all roughly drawn, but full of verve! He drew with the side of his pencil and would just swing it in there, so that when you rubbed it slightly with an eraser, you could correct any drawing that needed it, or just finish the drawing. At some point, I got appendicitis. I was still living at home in Brooklyn, and got these terrible stomach pains, so the next day they took out my appendix. I didn’t do any more work for Binder after that. I was ready to join the Army, because if I didn’t enlist, I’d have been drafted. We were kind-of recruited at Pratt, so I decided to join the Army and not work for those few months between recovering from my operation and going into the service. I had a perfectly good recovery, dated a lot, and had fun with my friends, before I had to serve my country. I graduated from Pratt in May 1941, and went into the service in August of 1942, so I couldn’t have been at Binder’s for more than a year. I also worked with the Fawcett studio in New York, but not for long. I remember a lot of people from my Binder days. Jimmy Potter was there, and he left to become a pilot in the Army Air Corps, where he trained others to become fighter pilots. He wrote to us while we were working at Binder’s and said, “I’m very anxious to go overseas, if these kids don’t kill me before I get my chance.” And sure enough, someone froze while at the controls, and they crashed, killing both men. Jimmy was a happy-go-lucky type; a big smile on his face... nothing fazed him. Jimmy Potter was at Binder’s when I started, and he died while I was still working there, so you can see he wasn’t in the service long. His death was a big dose of reality to all of us. JA: I can understand that. What do you remember about John Spranger?

DOWD: Of the four of us from Pratt, Ray was the quietest. He smoked a pipe, and looked very English, I’d say. He came from a nice, refined family. We were so friendly that we visited each other’s homes, and got to know each other’s parents. Ray, Bob, Ken, and I would visit quite often—we were all very close friends. Among the four of us, Ken and I were the closest, of course. Ken was so much like the people I grew up with, but different enough to be interesting. In fact, my wife and I were just over at Ken and Kaye’s house a couple of weeks ago. We all wish we lived closer. If we did, Ken and I could play golf together, instead of him still playing basketball. He’s too old for that! [mutual laughter] Ray married Edith while we were at Pratt. After the war, he moved to Rochester, New York, and drew newspaper illustrations for various department stores. He had a very nice career there. He must have done well, because he belonged to the Oak Hills Country Club, which has a very famous golf course. I’m sorry we didn’t keep in closer touch in his later years. Edith died first, and Ray remarried. We’d exchange Christmas cards, but that was about it. You know, it’s hard to see people as often as you want when we’re living in Connecticut and he’s in Rochester. I was busy with four children and being a freelance illustrator, and he had a family and career, too. Have you talked to Bob Boyajian? JA: Yes, I have. He, like you, was a little surprised that someone would want to interview him. But he was very gracious and helpful to me. DOWD: He would be. Now, Bob got a job in Akron, Ohio, right after the war. You have to realize that after all of us got out of the service, we couldn’t wait to get our lives started again. Bob got a job with the Firestone company. Ray got the job I mentioned earlier, though I don’t remember the name of the place he worked at. I think each of them did that, thinking they’d stay for a short time, and get some experience. Well, Bob stayed until he retired, when he moved to Vermont. And Ray stayed in Rochester until he died.

“Another Name From The Past” JA: What do you remember about Al Duca? DOWD: Al had a peculiar sense of humor. He was funny, and he came from Boston, so he had a slight Boston accent. He’d say something, and if you didn’t react immediately, he’d say, “Do you get the humor in it?” “Well, of course we get the humor in it, Duca. What do you think we did...crawl out from under a rock?” That’s how we teased him. He was very friendly and amusing. But I lost touch with him when I got appendicitis. The last time I heard about Al was from Bob Boyajian. And Ray had been very ill the last couple of years of his life, so I was unable to talk to him. You know, these things happen when you get older. Obviously Ken and I were the closest of any of us, partly because he married my sister, whom I’m very close to. Ken and I think of each

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last”

other almost as brothers. JA: It’s funny that you said that, because Timely artist Dave Gantz remarked that you and Ken were so close that it was hard to tell you from one another. DOWD: That’s true, although we don’t look alike. But we have similar tastes. Just to put a cap on this, when we visit each other, we stay at each other’s houses. We stay up half the night talking and drinking, and we know we don’t have to drive. Then we’ll have brunch and go home the next day. As Ken says, we are never at a loss for something to talk about. JA: You remember Pete Riss? DOWD: Pete was a character. He was older than most of us, and was a very nice man. When I started at Binder’s, Jack had shown us some figures Pete had drawn and wanted to see if we could match the style. Pete’s work was good: typical brush drawings of the heroes of that time. Pete was an established part of the Binder team and had been the entire time I was there. And I remember that he was of Russian descent.

It’s Magic! Look For The Hidden Signature You’ll see artist Al Duca in another photo on p. 37—and the late artist was covered in more depth in the FCA section of Alter Ego #xx. Meanwhile, above left, courtesy again of Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., is an art detail from 1942’s Super Magician #5—from a “Tao Anwar” tale—in which Duca’s name is written on the sign at right, in a panel Jim V. says is from a story Duca drew. He did tell people that he sometimes hid his name in panels at Fawcett in the 1940s, as well. Above right, from the same issue, is a pin-up of Blackstone the Magician—who was a real and very famous person, vividly remembered by Stan Lee, Ray Bradbury, and many others who saw him. While you probably can’t read it here, the signature near Blackstone’s right foot says “Jack Binder”—although he may or may not have actually drawn it. Jim V. says that the “Air Wonder Cadets” story in that issue is also signed by Binder, but feels that art was probably actually by Bill Ward. Hey, the boss gets to sign whatever he wants to sign! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Bob Butts was there, too, though I don’t know much about him. It’s hard to get to know the quiet guys. You know, we were all happy in those days because we were making money. If you went to J.Walter Thompson to get a job, and were the top of your class at Pratt, you’d make about $18 a week. If you went to the other ad agencies, you’d make about $15 a week. We were getting paid very little for the work we did per page, but if you worked on enough pages, it added up at the end of the week. That’s why we were so happy. We knew we were going to go into the service, so we enjoyed our time while we could. JA: Do you remember Vince Costello? DOWD: Another name from the past. He was very friendly, always ready to smile. I don’t remember what he did at Binder’s, but he was part of the crew. I can still remember what he looked like.

John Westlake was there, too. Another very nice man. Al Bare was there after I did and before I left. I think he was from New York, and if I remember correctly, he was related to William A. Smith, the illustrator. I’m not sure about that, though. I remember that Al used to talk about Smith.

Nat Champlin was a nice guy. I remember that we were in different fraternities at Pratt. Ken Bald, Bob Boyajian, and I were in Alpha Pi Alpha and Nat was in another fraternity. We were all friendly rivals in school. I didn’t know much about him; I knew him better at Binder’s than I did at Pratt. JA: Do you remember Samuel Brooks? DOWD: He went to Pratt. Samuel Hamilton Brooks! We called him “Memphis.” He was a Southerner. Oh, I remember him! [chuckles] I can remember hearing him moaning, “I wish I knew a little old girl in this little old town”—meaning Englewood. He was a character. JA: Wendell Crowley was there while you were, too. DOWD: Yes, but he came in right before I left Binder’s. He was a writer. [Crowley later became an editor at Fawcett. —Jim.] Let me ask you a question. Have you ever come across the name Jack Hearne? JA: Yes, he’s on my list of Binder employees. DOWD: I asked because Jack used to be a good friend of mine and I wondered what ever happened to him. I know he became a very good illustrator. He lived in Westport, when my wife and I moved up here. But then he got divorced and moved away, and I lost all contact with him. I’d love to know if he’s alive and where he lives if he’s alive. JA: Well, if he is alive, maybe I’ll get lucky and find him. Or perhaps someone reading this may know and contact us. I sure hope so, anyway.

“I Did Oil Paintings And Water Color Illustrations For Timely’s Men’s Magazines” Above, an oil painting—though Vic’s uncertain for which Timely magazine it was done. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

DOWD: Same here. He was a working illustrator and was a year behind me at Pratt. We didn’t really touch base until after the war. He wasn’t at Binder’s while I was there, but he once mentioned to me that he had worked there. Jack was a terrific all-around illustrator. He kept busy and made good money because he could do a whole variety of things, from a full-color, complicated industrial illustration to pen-and-ink illustrations. He could paint, too. Jack was the total package. I really admired his work.

“Vic Dowd Relates ‘The Typical Cartoonist’s Story’”

Would It Take 61 Clones of Minute-Man To Beat Up Hour-Man?

JA: What else do you remember about him?

Vic Dowd opines as how he may well have drawn some “Minute-Man,” “Spy Smasher,” and “Golden Arrow” tales for Fawcett, perhaps working with artist André LeBlanc. But since neither he nor we can ID any of them, we figured we’d run a few samples of the former, done by various artists. Who knows? There might even be a bit of Vic Dowd lurking in there somewhere! All are reproduced from AC Comics’ great line of black-&-white reprint comics, as advertised on p. 34. [Left to right:] The cover of AC Comics’ Men of Mystery #49 (2004, but still available) sported retouched art from that of Minute-Man #2 (Winter 1941-42); artist uncertain. Minute-Man was often billed as “The One Man Army.”

DOWD: I liked him. He wasn’t my buddy, DOWD: He was partially deaf in but I liked him. He was hard in some one ear, which probably kept him instances. By “hard,” I mean... well, I was out of the service. He was a tall young in those days and when you’re that That AC mag reprints art from the 1941 Minute-Man entry in the “Dime fellow who married a lady he met young, you think everyone should listen to Action Books” series—Fawcett’s answer to the Big Little Books, in a at Pratt, but that didn’t last too what you have to say. I don’t think Binder similar small-size format. Art for “Mystery of the Spy Ring” was long. I know he eventually was particularly interested in what any of produced, according to Bill Black, by the Harry “A” Chesler shop, remarried. After the war, when I us had to say—he was more interested in done in its “house style,” which was set by artist Charles Sultan— was doing more commercial work, except that the cover (repro’d as the first panel/page; see above, left results. He wasn’t hard to work for. I we’d occasionally get together. He center) was by C.C. Beck, who’s credited there. Each panel repro’d know he got along well with Clarence here represents one of the book’s 192 pages—and Men of Mystery #49 was working for the cheaper men’s Beck. They were good people. reprinted them all! (Incidentally, in case you’re wondering—Minutemagazines. You remember Man’s mask kind-of came and went during his Golden Age existence— I thought Jack was okay, because I Argosy? Well, he was working for much like the hyphen in his name!) wanted to do something that was the Argosy knock-offs, though I One of the most famous “Minute Man” stories is the one in which he completely my work, instead of just being don’t remember the names of “Makes the Dictators Buy War Bonds!” This story from Master Comics one of the artists drawing on a page. So I them. I worked for similar #11 (Feb. 1941) was drawn by the Simon-&-Kirby-influenced Phil Bard. asked Jack Binder to let me pencil and ink magazines through Stan Lee, [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Minute-Man TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] my own stories, which he agreed to. I drew though Stan was not the art “Blackstone the Magician,” which Binder director. Mel Blum was. Mel was a packaged for Street & Smith Publications. I was proud of doing that, muscle-builder who had muscles he hadn’t even used yet. [mutual even though I just did a few of them. Street & Smith and Fawcett were laughter] He was of average height and was very hard of hearing. Binder’s two big accounts. [NOTE: At the time Dowd worked for I did oil paintings and watercolor illustrations for Timely’s men’s Binder, the mag’s title was Super Magician Comics; in postwar years magazines. Jack didn’t work for Mel, but he did that kind of stuff. Jack Street & Smith did put out a comic titled Blackstone the Magician. — could draw anything without research. The rest of us were using models Roy.] and photographs, but not Jack. He then went on to do high-powered JA: Binder also packaged some work for Lev Gleason. I have you commercial illustrations for major companies, for which he was listed as inking “Captain Battle.” handsomely paid. And he was a very nice guy. I really liked him. JA: Do you remember if Bob McCay was there?

DOWD: I probably did.

DOWD: Yes, he was an older man; the son of Winsor McCay. Winsor McCay modeled Little Nemo after his Bob. Bob was a character. Now, when I say he was a character, I mean it in the same way I spoke about Clem Weisbecker. A “character” doesn’t mean that they were bad people. It means that they were different from what I was used to. Bob used to talk about his father, but I don’t remember much else about him.

JA: You also did “Black Owl” for Crestwood [a.k.a. Prize].

“[Jack Binder] Was More Interested In Results” JA: Were you working there when Ken was made the art director? DOWD: No, I think I was gone by then, but I’m not certain. I know Binder thought the world of him. JA: What did you think of Jack Binder?

DOWD: I don’t remember that one. It’s hard to remember the stories that I just did little bits of. In the case of “Blackstone the Magician,” I remember one sequence where Blackstone stops a river from flowing, so he could get away from the natives who were chasing him. I enjoyed doing that, and referred to the Jungle Jim strips. It gave me a chance to do my version of Alex Raymond. JA: Any chance you remember how much you got paid for doing Blackstone? DOWD: I don’t recall. I’ll tell you a cute story. I enlisted in the Army, sitting in the induction center, being interviewed by some guy from Alabama. I told him I was a commercial artist and had drawn comic books. Then this clown said, “How much money did you make doing

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last”

27 You’re In The Army Now

that?” I looked at him and thought that if I told him the truth, he won’t going to believe me, so although I had made more, I said, “About $50 a week.”

Vic Dowd says both that this photo of him was taken “somewhere in Europe 1943”—and that he “thinks Bob Boyajian took the photo.” That just makes it doubly welcome, Vic! The drawing | of a soldier and his pistol was drawn in Luxembourg in November 1944—and may just depict Boyajian. What makes us think that? Well, Vic drew a picture of Boyajian in the Army a bit later (see p. 39), and it sure looks like it could be the same guy! [©2005 Vic Dowd.]

Now, $50 a week, from this kid’s standpoint, was a lot of money back then. And I looked 18 when I was 22. He said, “Don’t tell me that. You couldn’t make that much. If you’re an artist, then draw me something.” I was from New York and wasn’t easily pushed around, but I decided to do it. I drew a comic book type of woman with huge breasts and the guy said, “Boy! You are an artist!” [mutual laughter] JA: Is Blackstone the only feature you did complete art on? DOWD: I really don’t remember; it may have been. JA: Let me give you a rundown on the credits I have for you during this time, to see if anything sparks a memory: “Spy Smasher,” “Mr. Scarlet,” “Minute-Man,” and “Golden Arrow.” DOWD: “Mr. Scarlet” doesn’t ring a bell, but the others do. My main memory here is that I was penciling and inking main characters and that André was doing the secondary characters. JA: Jerry Bails also lists you as having worked on “Bulletman” and “Captain Midnight.” Do they spark any memories? DOWD: I may have worked on them, but I can’t say for sure. There were so many characters in those days that they all seemed alike, except for the costumes. I do remember that John Spranger drew a lot of the costumed heroes. JA: Did you get to know Jack Binder’s brother Otto? DOWD: I met him but I didn’t get to know him. He wrote a lot of stories, and both Otto and his wife were very friendly people.

JA: Did you get to know C.C. Beck? DOWD: No, but I liked the way he drew “Captain Marvel.” You see, most superheroes had their biceps, calf muscles, etc., feathered. But Beck drew with a thicker line, more simply drawn and inked. He drew the essence of the figure, without fussing over it.

“Everything We Did Was Top Secret” JA: How long were you in the service? DOWD: From August of ’42 until October of ’45. JA: Some artists were able to do artwork while in the service. Did you? DOWD: I did some sketching in the service, and filled up a lot of sketchbooks, but I didn’t do any artwork for the service or for comic book companies. I was overseas in places like England, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Holland, and Germany. The outfit I was in was cloaked in secrecy. We were trained in deception and illusion. The outfit was interesting because it was comprised of artistic people. There were stage designers like Otis Riggs, who was in my platoon. He had done scenic designs for Shakespearean plays in New York, and when the war was over, he did scenic designs for Studio One and other television shows. The people in this outfit were recruited from art schools. I was recruited from Pratt and we were told that they needed people with artistic ability. That’s how Ray Harford and Bob Boyajian got into the same outfit. I got into the service before they did. We were in the 603 Engineer Battalion. They were supposed to be doing camouflage, but the war proceeded with such speed that individual camouflage was no longer seen as viable.

Dowd made these sketches of D.P.’s (Displaced Persons, as end-of-the-war European refugees were officially called) in 1945 in Trier, Germany. The names of two of them are on their pictures, and Vic says the woman on the right was “named Anna, and she was a Russian prisoner.” [©2005 Vic Dowd.]

Some organizational types from West Point formed a secret outfit, and we became part of that. From then on, everything we did was top secret, and instead of doing camouflage, we were deceiving the Germans. In other words, if you were a member of the Second Infantry Battalion, and were going to move into a certain area, then our small outfit would mark our vehicles the same way your division was

“Vic Dowd Relates ‘The Typical Cartoonist’s Story’”

marked. We would learn who your commanding officers were and what the inception of your outfit was. In effect, we would pretend to be your outfit and draw fire—which was not the good part of it. Meanwhile, secretly, you were going in another direction, unknown to the Germans, who thought they were fighting you and not us. We did that throughout Europe. I was a platoon sergeant, and we couldn’t tell if we were doing something worthwhile or not. Three books have recently been written about the outfit I was in. The information on our outfit was not declassified until sometime in the 1990s. I was interviewed for a few of those books. We faked the Germans out when it came to the crossing of the Rhine River. They were building up their defenses against us, when in reality, the river was being crossed upstream. Consequently, there were fewer casualties. The only negative part of it was that we occasionally were fired upon. That was not fun. We did all kinds of crazy things. We were combined with combat engineers, in order to give us more fire power. The Signal Corps and a sonic crew provided sound effects. Let me give you an example of what would happen. We were attached to an artillery division. Besides the 155 millimeter guns that they were firing, the sonic crew used sound effects to make it sound as if there were three times as many guns as there were. The Signal Corps was throwing off these flashes to go along with the sound effects. It was a big charade. I can remember when we were on a hill overlooking Luxembourg. We were up in the woods and... normally, when you’re in the service, the whole idea is to keep quiet so you don’t give your position away. We were just a small group of men and playing records of sergeants yelling, “Okay you, put out that damn cigarette!” We faked the rumbling of tanks and it sounded like a whole division was moving into that area. We were trying to frighten the Germans, who were trying to get out of Luxembourg as fast as they could. That’s the kind of stuff we did.

There were several interesting people in our outfit, such as Bill Blass, who later became a famous fashion designer. To me, he was just a regular guy. I had no idea he’d go on to design women’s clothes and become famous. And I was just a regular guy who used to love to play ball. The only difference between me and the people I grew up with was that I loved to draw. My outfit had people from Yale, Princeton, and Harvard. We supposedly had the highest IQ of any division in the army. We were contained, meaning there was no getting out of the outfit once we were in, because we were so top secret. There were also “meat and potato” guys who served with us; they were regular Army and everyone got along fine. JA: Once you were out of the service, I assume you were told never to talk about what you had done. DOWD: That’s true. Somebody once wrote an article about it in his local newspaper and he caught hell for it. We weren’t supposed to do that. And I wasn’t particularly interested in talking about it. I did show the sketchbooks I made to various art agents in New York. I got work based on the work I had done as a soldier. For instance, I worked for McClain’s magazine, which was the Saturday Evening Post of Canada.

“Even Stan Lee Didn’t Think Comics Were Going To Last” JA: In your list of postwar credits, I have you listed as inking romance comics for Fawcett from 1948 until 1952. DOWD: I did more than ink. I did complete art jobs on stories and covers as well. Al Allard was the main art director and Roy Ald worked under him. He was a nice quiet guy and a good art director. JA: Did you have to submit cover roughs first? Or show your pencils to Roy Ald, before inking them?

They referred to us as “The Ghost Army.” One of the books called us “The Secret Soldiers,” which is the title of a new book by Philip Gerard, and published by Dutton. If you’ll look in the index, you’ll see my name there. Jack Kneece wrote a book on us called The Ghost Army of World War Two, which was published by Pelican. A couple of my war drawings are in this book. JA: You were in the service with two classmates from Pratt. What was that like? DOWD: We were in the same battalion, but not the same company. I was a platoon sergeant in Company D. Bob [Boyajian] and Ray [Harford] were in another company, though we did get together occasionally. For instance, I went from England to France on D-Day + 7, which means I was there one week after the invasion forces hit Normandy. Bob and Ray came later, with the main body of the troops. When the whole force was together, we’d then get sent to different places.

Good Night, Sweethearts Two pages done, probably both pencils and inks, for Fawcett’s popular Sweethearts title circa 1949, under editor Roy Ald. Thanks to Vic Dowd. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last”

DOWD: I don’t think I did. I had a fair amount of freedom on those covers. I probably did turn my pencils in first, to be lettered before I inked them. I worked the same way with Stan Lee later on, too. I did all this work as a freelancer. Sweethearts was one of the magazines. Comics were the meat and potatoes of my freelance work during this period. I was also working for New York art studios, doing line illustrations.

Tommy Looks At Corporate Propaganda When I got out of the In the mid-1950s, for B.F. Goodrich and Kodak, Vic drew 16- and 32-page “industrial comics” which were Army, I immediately got a inserted inside copies of Scholastic magazine, distributed to schoolchildren. The interior page, naturally, is job—I was still in uniform— from Tommy Looks at Farming. That kid Tommy sure got around! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.] at a studio named Beacon Studios, near Grand Central I was married in April of 1951. I knew Stan before and after I got Station. I was hired to do spot illustrations. I had my own studio and married. My wife Marjorie and I used to visit Stan when he lived on was on salary there. I stayed there for almost a year and then they gave Long Island. We were out there on New Year’s Eve of ’52, when my son me a raise. I thought, “Uh-oh. If I ever want to freelance, I’d better do it Jeffrey was about to be born. Along with being a young, struggling now while I’m still single.” So I quit. It was around that time that, advertising artist, I was doing comics for Stan. I did Nellie the Nurse, through Ken, I met Stan Lee. I never worked on staff at Timely; I Hedy Devine - Movie Star… Do these titles mean anything to you? freelanced. It was a great account. JA: They sure do. I did a lot of humor comics for Stan. I really wasn’t interested in DOWD: I’m surprised, because I’d cringe if I had to look at that work doing super-heroes. I wanted to draw pretty women and nice young now. I’ve gotten so much better over the years. We were getting paid guys—more the normal type than the heroic kind. You know, we didn’t very little and just knocking out pages. Stan was knocking out scripts as think we were doing anything of great importance. Even Stan Lee didn’t fast as he could, too. My girl friends posed for me occasionally, and Ken, think comics were going to last. One day Ken and I had lunch with Stan who was drawing Millie the Model, was using Kay for a model. These and he said, “I’ve got to get out of the comic book business and get into books were easy to do—a lot easier than “Blackstone the Magician,” for television.” Stan was a writer and a good, fast one. instance. I started working for Johnstone and Cushing before I got married. I met people like Gill Fox there. Now, when I got married, Marjorie and I decided to take a six-week vacation in Europe. We went all over and blew the money I had saved. When we got back, I discovered just how long six weeks was, because all my Johnstone and Cushing accounts were given to someone else. I wondered what the hell I was going to do.

An Artist Travels On His Stomach

I did some commercial comics. One that I remember was about the state of Louisiana. Then I got a call from Ken Hall, who was working for a New York syndicate, and he asked if I’d be interested in doing a comic book for industry. I was, and did a whole series of them. One was for the B.F. Goodrich company. These books were used as inserts in Scholastic magazines. Two that I remember were Tommy Gets the Keys, which was done for the B.F. Goodrich Company, and Kenny Clicks with the Crowd, for Kodak.

People ask, “When you’re a freelancer,

“Vic Dowd Relates ‘The Typical Cartoonist’s Story’” for their comic pages in the Sunday papers. JA: You knew Gill Fox during those days, and as Gill was friend of mine, I’d like to hear what you remember about him from those days. DOWD: Gill was always very friendly and liked to talk. He loved the comic book business and the gag cartoonists. He really wanted to draw gags and a newspaper strip—all of which he did. Dik Browne was there and he was a terrific cartoonist. He did all the big foot cartoons. [NOTE: Later he created the strip Hagar the Horrible.] We worked on a few Pepto-Bismol pages together; he did his characters and I did mine. The big name there was Stan Drake. He was a very gregarious man who loved to draw. We went out to Cushing’s house and played softball. Ken, Red Wexler, and I were playing softball and Stan Drake said, “This is not my game. I play golf.” I later discovered that he was a damn good golfer.

Evidently A Little Bit Of Lenny Goes A Long Way In between drawing the adventures of “Nellie the Nurse” “Hedy Devine,” et al., Vic Dowd also drew these comic-strip-style pages for Timely’s Little Lenny #2 (Aug. 1949). A couple of years later, Hank Ketcham’s Dennis the Menace daily panel would take the nation’s newspaper funnypages by storm, but at this point the “kid strip” was considered virtually a dead end—and, indeed, there were only three issues of Little Lenny. Thanks to Doc Vassallo. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

how do you get these accounts?” More often than not, they just happen. Sometimes, you have long spells, but more often, someone mentions you to a client and then you’ve got work for a long time. That’s the way my life has been. I thought, wrongly, that comic books would never last. I aimed higher than comics because I wanted to be an illustrator. A lot of guys I knew felt that way. Guys like Kurt Schaffenberger, who stayed in it, may have felt differently. He married young, and the comic book business was a comfortable life for him. He had a good relationship with C.C. Beck and Fawcett and, later on, at DC Comics. A few guys made some money at this, but no one got rich. There was no reason for me to continue on in comic books when a place like Johnstone and Cushing was around. They paid very well

Now, my wife’s father, Floyd Bonar, did headlinelettering and other art jobs for Johnstone and Cushing. It was through him that I met his daughter Marjorie, who was a fashion model in New York. He made the mistake of taking her to a party that Johnstone and Cushing were throwing. That was his first mistake! [mutual laughter] I was there with someone else, but that’s where I met my future wife.

Floyd was a Civil War enthusiast. When my son was born, Creig Flessel drew a cartoon of a kid in diapers, Floyd drawing a Civil War map, and Marjorie and I standing there. Flessel, like Dik Browne, was a terrific talent. All the guys at Johnstone and Cushing were good guys.

Hedy Is Divine—No Matter Who Draws Her Stan Lee devoted these three pages of his 1947 book Secrets behind the Comics to the work of Vic Dowd (with Ed Winarski’s probable self-portrait on the first of these three pages, and his art featured on pages alternating with Dowd’s). The point was to show how “Hedy Devine” stories were drawn differently by the two artists. Unfortunately, the pencils on p. 15 didn’t show up as well as the inked lettering—and the finished page in which the reader was supposed to “notice that [Vic] does not use nearly as many backgrounds as Ed,” etc., was reproduced not much bigger than a postage stamp. Hmm… we wonder if that final page was Stan’s way of suggesting to Vic that he should draw more backgrounds! [Text & new art ©2005 Stan Lee; Hedy Divine art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last”

JA: You’re in the Secrets behind the Comics, which was a small book that Stan Lee put out in 1947.

“Stan Made It Fun For Us” JA: Getting back to your Timely days, was Stan Lee the man who hired you?

DOWD: That was done in the days when Ken and I were having lunches with Stan. To Stan’s credit, he’s just like he appears in public, like when he’s on The Larry King Show or somewhere else. He’s amusing, clever, and has never changed.

DOWD: Yes. I did all my work for Stan, except for when I told him that I really wanted to do illustration. That’s when he introduced me to Mel Blum, whom I had met before.

This might be a little embarrassing to Stan, but he’s not mechanically inclined. Shortly after Stan and Joan were married, Stan said to Ken and me, “Joan’s mad at me.” We asked why and he said, “We got this nice little apartment and she blew her top because I had driven nails into the wall, so that I could hang my coat and pants on a clothes hanger.” [laughs] Here he is, living in a New York apartment, which probably cost him a small fortune, and he’s banging nails into the wall so he could hang his clothes! He was laughing when he told us this, because Stan knew how to laugh at himself. He saw the humor in this incident. Stan could be self-effacing, and he deserves all the success that he’s received.

JA: You didn’t write stories for Timely, but do you remember who any of the writers were? DOWD: If you ask me, I’d say that Stan wrote them all. A cute thing about Stan: he was in the Army and was a couple of years younger than me. He was young when they put him in the service, and in his group were dynamite writers like William Saroyan. [NOTE: Saroyan, a famed writer at the time, was the author of such bestselling books as My Name Is Aram (1940) and The Human Comedy (1943); his 1939 play The Time of Your Life won the Pulitzer Prize—which Saroyan refused, saying that commerce should not judge the arts.] They were writing training films. Stan said to us—not in a bragging way—“These guys would agonize over what they were writing and I’d crank them out in a day.” That’s the way Stan wrote the comics.

At General Electric, Comics Is Our Most Important Product

JA: So why did you leave comics?

Stan was related to Martin Goodman and they both lived in Hewlett, Long Island. Stan was being paid as an editor for Timely, and he was also paying himself as a writer for those comics. When I got a script from Stan, it was on yellow pads, with stick figures and balloons. I don’t remember ever illustrating a Timely story that wasn’t written by Stan. JA: Had Stan written the dialogue in these scripts before you got them? DOWD: Yes. The scripts were like storyboards. I was able to take them and do whatever I wanted with them. The main thing was to make the girls pretty. They were clever stories and, of course, Stan was a very clever guy. Stan thought of himself as a writer, but as I said, he also wanted to write for television. But Stan was so well-paid for what he did at Timely, and the combination of a salary and freelancer pay for his stories was quite an enticement. I’m sure he wrote every script that Ken and I drew. Stan was so easy to work with, and even though he was an art director, too, he made no pretensions about being an art critic. He never criticized our work. Stan made it fun for us. It’s just that comics didn’t pay much and wasn’t as prestigious as I wanted it to be. But Timely was a very good account. JA: Do you remember how much Timely paid per page? DOWD: You know, I’ve been trying to remember that, but I don’t. I got around $125 per page for those industrial comics I did for Scholastic, and that was very good money for the time. I inked everything I penciled for Timely.

DOWD: I left because I was making more money doing other things and, as I told you earlier, I wanted to move on. And Johnstone and Cushing really spoiled me because they paid better. I didn’t miss comic books once I left, but I did continue to do some industrial comics for a while. I did fashion illustration for 18 years, illustrated books, and from 1966 until 1972 I worked at the Famous Artists School. I belonged to the Westport Artists Group here in Connecticut, which was where the school was. At one of the Artists Group meetings, I was asked to teach for the school. I got that job, which took up about four days a week of my time, allowing me to continue freelancing. I was working day and night, practically killing myself, but I was putting four kids through school. After I’d been at the school for a year, I was asked to help design a new course of instruction for talented young people. So, very briefly, a couple of us worked our brains out preparing three textbooks and a course of instruction for a new course. This course, which I supervised, turned out to be a big success. I got into painting while at the Famous Artists School. There were great painters there. If you think it’s really hard to make a living as a commercial artist, it’s impossible to do so as a painter. A few of those guys—not all—who were excellent painters, took this job in order to earn a regular salary and painted at nights and on weekends. I learned more about art in the six years I spent at the school than I did at Pratt, which was a darn good school. If you want to learn about art, then teach it. JA: Did you have much contact with Albert Dorne or Norman Rockwell?

“Vic Dowd Relates ‘The Typical Cartoonist’s Story’”

The 1970s Illos done for Read’s (a unit of Allied Stores) and The Fairfield Store; they appeared in Fashion Illustrated magazine. Vic signed this work “ved”—but we thought his middle initial was “J.”!? [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

The 1980s (Left:) “Cover art for a catalogue, 1980.” (Above:) “Advertising illustrations done for Kodak. I did this work for a NY studio that no longer exists. Early 1980s.”

DOWD: Occasionally, yes. JA: Why did the school collapse? DOWD: It was a financial problem, like the Enron thing—torpedoed by the bookkeepers. Many of my friends there didn’t know what to do when this happened. I was lucky because I had started doing fashion illustration shortly before the school dissolved, so I had a full time career to fall back on. JA: Are you still working or have you retired? DOWD: I’m retired, except for when an old client comes out of the woodwork. I basically retired when I turned 80. I still paint, however, and when I can, I paint from live models. I live in a good area where there are models available. I exhibit my work rather frequently, and, right now, have something in the Westport Art Show. Although I don’t paint for money, I do sell some paintings and my kids have their houses filled with them. I’ve come full circle: I’m doing what I used to do as a kid, except now I’m working in full color as opposed to pencil drawings. I’ve been doing this for several years and it’s been wonderful for me. Now, I’m a full-time painter and part-time golfer.

“I Thought That Comic Books Would Never Last”

Two By Dowd We most definitely do not intend to trivialize the sentiments inherent in Vic Dowd’s wartime sketch (left center:), which he labeled “G.I. writing a letter home from foxhole in Germany – 1945.” But we wanted to feature some comic art, as well, to close the interview, and this drawing of Hedy Devine, also seen on p. 30, is one of the few pieces of art that we know is his, so…! [Sketch ©2005 Vic Dowd; Hedy Devine ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

VIC DOWD Checklist [NOTE: Key for this checklist is the same as that on p. 19, at the end of the Ken Bald Checklist. Some data provided by Vic Dowd via Jim Amash.] Name: Victor J. Dowd [b. 1920] (artist) Education: graduate of Pratt Institute Brother-in-law: Ken Bald Illustrator: Advertising: Johnstone & Cushing, freelance 1949-51; dustjacket: Francis Scott Key 1963, Tecumseh 1970; magazines: McClains [Canada] 1946; Martin Goodman’s magazines c. 1951-c. 1955 Teacher: Famous Artists School 1966-72 Promotional Comics: cover (a) c. 1960/62 for Tommy Gets the Keys, other premiums for B.F. Goodrich; (a) Kenny Clicks with the Crowd (no date) for Kodak; (a) PeptoBismol comic ads c. 1950 through Johnstone & Cushing Comics Studio/Shops: Beck-Costanza studio (a) mid-1940s; Binder studio (a) 1941-42

COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream US Publishers): Better/Pines/Standard/Nedor: Fighting Yank (a) 1941-42 Fawcett Publications: Bulletman (a) 1942; Captain Midnight (p) 1942; covers (a) 194852; Golden Arrow (p) 1942; Minute-Man (i) 1943; Mr. Scarlet (i) 1942; Spy Smasher (a) 1942; Sweethearts (a) 1948-52 Feature/Prize/Crestwood: Black Owl (a) 1942 Lev Gleason Publications: Captain Battle (i) 1942 [imprint: New Friday] Marvel/Timely: Hedy Devine (a) 1947-48; misc. features (a) c. 1947-c. 1953; Nellie the Nurse (a) c. 1947-c. 1953; The Witness (a) 1948 Street & Smith Comics: Ajax the Sun Man (a) 1942; Blackstone the Magician (a) 194243; fillers (a) 1942; non-fiction (a) 1942

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“Comics Weren’t My Main Goal In Life” Nevertheless, Artist BOB BOYAJIAN Talks To Us About Life At Fawcett & The Jack Binder Shop Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

ob Boyajian may be an unfamiliar name to most of A/E‘s readers, but don’t blame Bob for that! He only worked for Jack Binder’s shop, which supplied several comic book companies (including Fawcett) with art and stories, for a little over half a year in 1941. Then he was sent to work directly for Fawcett, where, again, he worked only for half a year. The policies of both places didn’t allow artists to sign their work, and if not for a combination of the records Jack Binder kept and the memories of those who knew him, Bob might have totally faded into comic book obscurity. But you know us—we’re not about to let that kind of thing happen if we can help it! So now Bob tells his story for the first time. Hey, his comic book career might have been short and sweet, but it’s worth remembering, both for its own sake and for the light it sheds on other events and personalities. —Jim. APOLOGIA from the Editor of Alter Ego: Somehow, in the 11th hour, as this interview was being prepared for publication, I discovered that, in some manner, photocopies of several pieces of Bob Boyajian’s later, non-comics art had been mis-filed, and they could not be located in time for inclusion with this interview. Since Bob had been unable to send any comic art that was specifically his, we’ve instead illustrated this section with related work. We offered him the option of our postponing publication of his interview till a later date, when those photocopies have been found or replaced—but, because of his friendship for Ken Bald and Vic Dowd, he preferred that it still be included in this issue, so we’ve done the best we can. I want to take this space to apologize personally to Bob for the mis-filing—and assure both him and A/E’s readers that, as soon as the missing work is available, we’ll run a special section spotlighting it! —Roy.]

“Pratt Institute Was Where I Met Ken Bald, Vic Dowd, And Ray Harford” JIM AMASH: Let’s start off with my basic opening questions, which are: where and when were you born? And tell me about your time at Pratt Institute. BOB BOYAJIAN: I was born in New York City, January 17, 1922. Pratt Institute was where I met Ken Bald, Vic Dowd, and Ray Harford. We were classmates, studying illustration. We were allowed to leave school before Commencement, but we did graduate. Jack Binder, who

A Man For Many Seasons Bob Boyajian in a photo taken in 2003 by wife Gail Boyajian—and an ad from (and for) Fawcett’s comics, many of which were produced by the Jack Binder shop for which he worked, and on some of which Bob worked. [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics.]

had a shop out in Englewood, New Jersey, and was an artist himself, was an agent who got work from various comic book publishers. A lot of us went straight from school to Binder’s shop. Kurt Schaffenberger was with us at Pratt and, unlike me, he stayed in comics. Bill Ward was a year ahead of us at Pratt and was the one who told us about Jack Binder. I believe we started at Binder’s in May of 1941. The war was coming and we all knew we’d be in the service before long, so working for Binder sounded like a pretty good idea. Jobs were hard to find then, because employers were afraid to hire men who might be drafted at any time. So this was a chance to earn some money, and I think we were all single then. I lived with my folks in New York City and made the commute opposite from most of the commuters in the morning. I think that was true of the others, too. JA: Did Binder do the actual hiring? BOYAJIAN: Yes. And it was all piecework. We weren’t paid salaries. We got paid by how much work we did. We worked upstairs in his barn, and there was as many as 18 to 20 of us there. When I started there, I was doing everything that came my way. It was an assembly-line process. Someone, usually Jack’s brother Otto, started by writing a script. Then someone laid out the pages, and

Bob Boyajin About Life At Fawcett & The Jack Binder Shop He was in his late 30s and came from Chicago. Ken knew him better, because he [Ken] became the art director at the shop before he went into the service. I remember that it was hot in the summer time and terribly cold in the winter. Binder installed a couple of fans for the summer months. In the winter, he put in a wood stove. The first guy in was supposed to start it. We worked in our overcoats because it took until noon before the place got warm enough to take them off. JA: Pete Riss was Binder’s art director before Ken was. What do you remember about him? BOYAJIAN: He was a Russian. He’d tell us Russian stories, but was very low-key and hardly ever raised his voice. He gave up the art director’s job and became a regular shop worker. I don’t think Pete was the kind of guy who enjoyed bossing people. He was quite a good comic book artist. Kurt Schaffenberger was more outgoing. JA: Even though I’ve interviewed Ken Bald, I’d like to hear your impressions of him. BOYAJIAN: He was a terrific art director and a marvelous artist. He’s a very good friend. He’s always had a great work ethic. I remember while he was doing the Dr. Kildare newspaper strip, he was also working as an illustrator. And he’s still working, doing television storyboards. He’s just amazing! JA: Did you get to know Otto Binder? BOYAJIAN: Not really, though he’d come to the shop every once in a while with his scripts. He worked at home. Bob Butts was also a classmate at Pratt. He was a hard-working, quiet man. I don’t think he was the type to have wanted an art director’s job. He was quiet in school and on the job.

A Golden Arrow For A Golden Age Boyajian, who drew the “Golden Arrow” series in Whiz Comics briefly, at some time between 1942-44, may or may not have drawn this story from issue #33 (Aug. 1942), featuring the archer who fought crime in an Old West setting. But, as it happens, Ye Editor owns a coverless copy of one of those giant Xmas Comics that Fawcett put out during the war years, which includes the contents (minus covers) of entire issues of Captain Marvel, Spy Smasher, Bulletman, Wow Comics, and Whiz Comics—so we thought we’d give it a shot. What say, Bob? Recognize this work as yours? [©2005 DC Comics.]

someone, usually Kurt Schaffenberger, lettered the pages. Then someone would pencil in the main figures, and someone else drew the backgrounds. Three people usually inked the pages: one would do the main characters, someone else the secondary figures, and a third inked the backgrounds. I started out at the lowest level as a background penciler. Gradually, I worked myself up. We did a bunch of features, and I eventually had one all to myself, which was “Golden Arrow.” We didn’t work on “Captain Marvel” at Binder’s, which is why Ray Harford and I eventually went over to work in Fawcett’s art department. They obviously needed help, and Jack Binder wanted to stay on Fawcett’s good side, so he sent us there. I did “Captain Marvel” covers. JA: Did you do “Golden Arrow” at Binder’s? BOYAJIAN: Yes, pencils and inks, but I only did a few stories. When I went to work directly for Fawcett, I stopped drawing the feature. He was a back-up feature in Whiz Comics. JA: What do you remember about Jack Binder? BOYAJIAN: He was something of a character. He had a checkered career and had done some art, though I never saw any that he had done.

“The Fawcett Gang” JA: I’d like to throw a few more names at you to see what you remember about these people, starting with Vince Costello. BOYAJIAN: He was a classmate, too. We all wanted to be illustrators and doing comic books was pretty close, so we were willing to do it temporarily. JA: Ray Harford. BOYAJIAN: He was a close friend of mine. I was the best man at his wedding. We both served in the same outfit in the war, as did Vic Dowd. We were in the camouflage outfit. Ray was born in 1920, and was just short of turning 80, when he died in 1990. I actually heard about the birth of his son before he did. I got a Vmail from my mother, who saw his mother, and got the news. My V-mail got to me before Ray’s got to him. There was a fellow who wrote scripts. His name was Wendell Crowley, and he was a very tall guy. I think he only had one good eye. He was at Binder’s, but later went to Fawcett and eventually became the Captain Marvel editor. Al Duca went on to quite a different career. He wasn’t in comics too long. He invented a kind of acrylic paint and had an association with MIT, developing methods of casting sculpture. He had a nice career as a painter, too. He was from Boston, and I think he went back there after the war. Al was at Pratt with us, and he was quite a character. He did a marvelous imitation of Groucho Marx. He did not go into the service, but I don’t know why. Al and I went back to our 45th reunion at Pratt, with

“Comics Weren’t My Main Goal In Life”

our wives. I saw him shortly before he passed away, which was in 1995. JA: You remember Dick Rylands? BOYAJIAN: Yes, he was briefly at Binder’s. After the war, he was an art director at an ad agency in Rochester, New York. I’m not sure he was at Binder’s long enough to do more than roughing out the pencil work. JA: John Westlake. BOYAJIAN: He was a classmate—an interesting guy, who was older than me. He went to Harvard first, and Pratt afterwards, before going into comic books. He later became a big shot at World Publishing in Cleveland. I lived in Ohio for a time; we got together a few times. JA: Jimmy Potter. BOYAJIAN: He was killed in the service, flying airplanes. He and Ken physically tried each other. [laughs] I remember one afternoon at Binder’s, playing football in the yard. Whichever one of them got the ball, kept trying to get past the other one. Poor Jimmy went into the service early, and some poor student froze on the controls and they were killed. I think that happened before I went into the service. JA: Sid Davignon. BOYAJIAN: I think he came to Binder’s after I left. He came from Lake Placid, New York, but beyond that, I know nothing about him. He’s not in the Pratt Alumni book, so he must be dead now. JA: Another classmate, I see! Okay, how about Nat Champlin? BOYAJIAN: After the war, he got a graduate degree in art and taught at some big university. He was an outgoing guy, and I have the feeling he thought of comics as just an interim job. Most of us didn’t come back to

Hail, Hail, The Gang’s All Here! Even if we may have run this photo before, we wanted to run this version which was sent to us (with IDs) by Bob Boyajian. Back row, incl. seated on couch: Samuel Hamilton Brooks—Dick Rylands—an unidentified woman and boy—Otto Binder. Middle row l.r to r.: behind Al Duca, who’s the mustachioed guy seated in the front/middle of the photo: Ken Bald—Bob Boyajian—Bob Butts—Vic Dowd—Jack Binder—and (with glasses, behind Kurt Schaffenberger, who’s playing his accordion) John Westlake.

comics. He was a year behind us at Pratt. He was the one who took some of the pictures of the Fawcett gang. Samuel Hamilton Brooks was a year behind us at Pratt. I don’t think he went into the service. He turned out to be a pretty good advertising artist and I believe he did editorial cartooning, too. He was a Southerner and we used to make fun of his accent. I can’t remember just what he did at Binder’s. André LeBlanc was at Binder’s. He was quite a good artist, and also quite a character. He was very assertive—a little pushy. JA: What do you remember about Bill Ward? BOYAJIAN: He was a year ahead of us at Pratt. He was a good cartoonist, even in school. I think he mostly did layouts at Binder’s; he was more at the creative end of the job. I don’t know whatever became of him. JA: He stayed in comic books for along time, and did girl cartoons for magazines for many years. He loved drawing wellendowed women. BOYAJIAN: [laughs] I’m not surprised. He did that at school, too.

You’ve Come A Long Way, Baby! Fawcett Publications wouldn’t have allowed Bill Ward to draw his trademark voluptuous, big-busted gals in this “Bulletman” story. Still, there’s just a hint of one in his Susan (Bulletgirl) Kent in panel 1, don’t you think? This retouched story was printed in b&w in AC Comics’ Golden Age Men of Mystery #7 (1998), and can still be viewed at their website; see ad on p. 34 (we’ve said that before, but it bears repeating). [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Bulletman & Bulletgirl TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] The later full-out Bill Ward cartoon at right, from the late 1940s or 1950s, was reprinted in W.O.W. The World of Ward #1 (1990), published by Mort Todd’s Allied American Artists. [©2005 Estate of Bill Ward.]

JA: Figures! Do you remember the ball games? BOYAJIAN: Yes. We had a lot of fun doing that. Somewhere, I have a picture of that. Vic Dowd and Ken were good ball players...I was fair. If I find that picture, I might be able to remember more.

Bob Boyajin About Life At Fawcett & The Jack Binder Shop We’re Off To See The Whiz Both the Beck and Binder studios produced work for Fawcett—so did the company’s staff artists—and, from time to time, the Chesler shop, as well. Here’s work by two or more of those groups, all from the same issue of Whiz Comics (#33) from which we took the “Golden Arrow” splash earlier. To wit: “Captain Marvel Joins Spy Smasher”: a rare team-up. Beck and his boys concentrated on the Big Red Cheese, while other artists drew Spy Smasher in this 24-page extravaganza—and that doesn’t count the issue’s contents page, up front! “Lance O’Casey” was an amiable seaman whose roving adventures lasted till not long before the end of Whiz Comics and the Fawcett comics operation itself—then segued over into a tale or two at Charlton when that company bought rights to much Fawcett material. “Dr. Voodoo” slowly faded from sight after it lost artist Mac Raboy to “Captain Marvel Jr.” Raboy was long gone by this issue. “Ibis the Invincible” was another popular hero—he even had his own mag from time to time—who later appeared in a Charlton mag or two. He gained a cape in later adventures. [Art ©2005 DC Comics.]

JA: Did you know Clem Weisbecker? BOYAJIAN: No, but we heard a lot about him. Our paths never crossed. JA: John Spranger? BOYAJIAN: Yes. He was a fine draftsman. I don’t know if he went to Pratt, though if he had, he’d have been a year or two behind the rest of us. He was a quiet man and I didn’t get to know him. Bob McCay, the son of Winsor McCay, worked there, too. As a child, I had an uncle who saved all the Little Nemo in Slumberland Sundays that Winsor McCay did. There were wonderfully imaginative. I think Jack Binder thought Bob’s father was one of the greatest artists of all time and tried to cook up something with Bob, but Bob didn’t have his father’s talent. JA: Al Bare. BOYAJIAN: I’d forgotten about him. He came in after I did. He was a

very fine printmaker, who did woodcuts. Since the Depression was still on, artists like him had trouble finding work. Ken Bald got to know him better than I did.

“When You Left Binder’s For Fawcett…” JA: When you left Binder’s for Fawcett, you worked in the office, right? BOYAJIAN: Right. There was a big art department and there was a section where we worked on “Captain Marvel.” Ray Harford, Pete Costanza, myself, and of course, Beck, were among those who worked there. It was the Captain Marvel team. JA: You said you did covers. Were you penciling or inking? BOYAJIAN: I did some of both. They were fun to do, and I knew they’d be done in color... unlike the interiors, which had color, but those pages were just thrown at the engravers and they decided the color schemes. But on the covers, we made a color guide for them.

“Comics Weren’t My Main Goal In Life”

JA: Who made the cover color guides? BOYAJIAN: I did. I’d get a good print of the art, and watercolor it. I remember going to the engravers once, just to get an idea of what they were doing. I only did the colors for a couple of months. I worked at Fawcett from January until September of 1942. Clarence Beck looked a little like Billy Batson. I think he made himself deliberately look like Billy. He had a chin that he always stuck out and was a little bossy. Of course, he co-created Captain Marvel. He was a serious man and was our immediate boss. The Fawcett brothers came from Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Beck came with them. We were in a great big room, and the magazines were put together there, too. They were take-offs on magazines like True Confessions, and had a very good sports magazine. None of the artwork for them was done in the office, though. The people who worked on those books were doing page layouts and paste-ups. The comic book department was a minority in that room.

I Hate To Get Up, I Hate To Get Up… Nope, this 1945 sketch isn’t by Bob Boyajian—but it depicts Boyajian, and was drawn by his good buddy and fellow soldier Vic Dowd. Vic labeled it: “Quick nap before falling out – morning Feb. 8/45.” But Reveille’s a-comin’, Bob! [©2005 Vic Dowd.]

power. His boss was Al Allard.

JA: What do you remember about Pete Costanza?

JA: Bill Parker was a writer and the co-creator of Captain Marvel. Did you ever meet him?

BOYAJIAN: He was a nice guy who drew well. I believe he did “Golden Arrow” before I did. There was another guy named Weill, who worked at Fawcett. I think he was friends with Costanza. I wish I could remember Weill’s first name.

BOYAJIAN: I don’t remember meeting him. I do remember a writer named Tom Naughton. I think he died young. We never dealt with the writers, which is why I don’t remember them, except for Otto Binder.

Marc Swayze and Chic Stone worked there, too. All I remember about Swayze was that he was a ladies’ man. [laughs] Chic was a nice guy and a good artist, too, but I didn’t get to know these guys very well. Al Allard was the art director at Fawcett and a dashing fellow—a real ladies’ man. It was kind-of rare back then, but he had long hair. And he was stripped to the waist a lot of the time. [mutual laughter] I was there the whole summer and it got hot sometimes. He had the corner office in the Paramount building on the 22nd floor. He had a secretary who was a pretty redhead. After I got out of the army, I went to see him, but Fawcett no longer had the comic book artists on staff. He told me to go see Beck, who was in Englewood, New Jersey. JA: There was another fellow there named Ralph Daigh. BOYAJIAN: Oh, yeah. I can’t tell you much about him, but he was the editorial director. He had oversight over what was done. He may have been over Al Allard. He really didn’t deal with the artists. To put it baldly, we were not high on the totem pole there. The magazines were considered to be more important. JA: How did people get along in the office? BOYAJIAN: I would say quite well. I must say Clarence Beck... well, I was new there and I like to whistle to classical music. Beck came over to me one day and said, quite seriously, “We don’t do that around here.” I shut up after that. He was okay, but he didn’t seem to have much of a sense of humor. At least, that’s the impression I had. In general, I think everyone got along well. JA: How much power did C.C. Beck have? BOYAJIAN: For our section of the art department, he was the art director. He could be very critical of our drawing, but he didn’t have full

“I Wanted To Be An Illustrator” JA: When you were working on staff at Fawcett, you did complete stories, didn’t you? BOYAJIAN: We were on salary. I made $35 a week. I think Ray Harford, who really did more work on the main characters, got $50 a week. That was good money then. JA: Did you have to turn out a certain number of pages per week? BOYAJIAN: I don’t remember having to do that. It was assumed that we were conscientious enough to get our work done. Much later, when I was an illustrator in Ohio, we had a big art department there, too. After a few years, they installed a coffee machine, and the guys there became less productive. There was no such thing at Fawcett. JA: Since you were a salaried staffer, did Fawcett give any benefits, like health insurance? BOYAJIAN: No. We did have Social Security, which I started paying into when I started at Binder’s. JA: Did it bother you that you weren’t allowed to sign your stories? BOYAJIAN: Oh, no. Comics weren’t my main goal in life. I wanted to be an illustrator and, knowing that I was going to go into the service at some point, I considered comics to be a temporary job. I worked hard at doing comics. When I started doing “Golden Arrow,” Binder was very critical of how I drew horses. I went and bought a portfolio of how to draw horses. I really wanted to do a good job and made an effort to improve. JA: How long were you in the service?

Bob Boyajin About Life At Fawcett & The Jack Binder Shop

BOYAJIAN: I went in September 1942, and got out at the end of October of 1945. I did draw while in the service, but not for print. The outfit I was in had a lot of artists. One of them was Arthur Singer, who drew all the Golden Bird books. He became very well known for that. I was in the 603 Camouflage outfit. Vic Dowd, who’s still a close friend, was in it, but in another division. We were the Ghost Army, which has been the subject of several recent books.

I’m known primarily as a photographer here. I did a book of photographs of the town we live in, Strafford at the Millennium. It was locally published and got a lot of attention. I did some advertising before I retired, but once retired, I quit drawing and concentrated on photography. I had an exhibition at the governor’s office in Montpelier a couple of years ago. I’m sort-of a town photographer; people ask me to take wedding pictures and the like.

JA: What did you do when you got out of the service?

JA: Do you miss drawing?

BOYAJIAN: First thing I did was to see Beck and Costanza. I very briefly worked for them, but I didn’t want to do comic books anymore. Even though I graduated from Pratt, I was still young enough to qualify for the G.I. Bill’s college program, up to 48 months. I went to the Art Students League for three or four months, which was where I met my future wife, Martha. Sometimes, I’ve kicked myself for not making more advantage of the time offered me, but at that time, I felt that the years I lost in the Army created a big hole, and I wanted to move on with my life. After several months in the 52-20 club (the service paid $20 a week for 52 weeks), I proposed to Martha, and figured I’d better get a job.

BOYAJIAN: Not anymore. I did for a long time, and I still have a collection of my printed work, but I don’t miss it anymore. I’m too rusty. [laughs] My three daughters are artists, and my wife is an painter. My oldest daughter got a graduate degree from M.I.T. in architecture, and then became a painter. She’s doing very well and is married to a painter. My middle daughter, Ann, is a freelance illustrator. She’s done some books and editorials for magazines. Her work is very stylized. My youngest daughter’s achievements are considerable. She’s had several one-person shows, including her “You’re A Stubborn Critter, Black Horse” first one at her alma mater, Smith Again—chances are this “Golden Arrow” page from Whiz Comics #33 wasn’t College, and others at Dartmouth drawn by Bob Boyajian, since he only did the feature for a short time circa and Harvard. We had a family 1941-42, but it does demonstrate the kind of action Fawcett wanted in its show in 2001 in Lebanon, New comics. And remember—look for Bob’s postwar art in a near-future issue of Hampshire. I was represented by Alter Ego. We owe him one! [©2005 DC Comics.] We moved to Akron, Ohio, and my photography and the rest, I got a job with Firestone in 1946, including my son-in-law, had paintings in the show. We kept and stayed until 1965. And then I became the art director of a small ad art in the family. agency for seven years. After that, I became a freelance illustrator and photographer, until I retired in 1984. In 1981, we left Ohio, and moved to Vermont.

BOB BOYAJIAN Checklist [NOTE: Key for this checklist is same as that on p. 19, at the end of the Ken Bald Checklist. Some data updated by Bob Boyajian via Jim Amash.] Name: Robert Boyajian [b. 1922] (artist)

COMIC BOOK CREDIT (Mainstream US Publishers):

Note: Worked for Firestone company [Akron, Ohio] 1946-65

Fawcett Publications: (color) 1942-44 some Captain Marvel covers; Bulletman (a) 1942; Captain Midnight (a) 1943; covers (color) c. 1943-44 for Whiz and Capt. Marvel Adventures; Golden Arrow (a) 1942-44; Mary Marvel (a) 1942-44; various features (a) 1942 – was on staff after work at Binder studio & before WWII service

Education: Pratt Institute Illustrator: freelance c. 1972-84 Fine Artist: exhibition with his entire family [all artists] – New Hampshire 2001

Feature/Prize/Crestwood: Black Owl (a) 1942

Photographer: c. 1972-84

Lev Gleason Publications: Captain Battle (a) 1942 [imprint: New Friday]

Art Director: agency c. 1965-c. 1972

Street & Smith Comics: Blackstone the Magician (a) 1942

Comics Studio/Shop: Beck-Costanza studio (a) 1945; Binder studio (a) 1941-42 cover dates; employed in 1941

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

Introduction by Michael T. Gilbert

he following John Stanley tribute appeared in the 1976 Newcon Convention booklet, written by convention organizer Don Phelps. We’re pleased to reprint Mr. Phelps’ insightful article, with only minor editing.

John Stanley by Don Phelps

John Stanley was born in Harlem, N.Y. on March 22, 1914. His high school artistry was good enough for him to win a two-year scholarship to the New York School of Art. He felt very uncomfortable there, as most of his classmates were wellto-do and, being a city kid, he did not really blend in. After finishing his two years, he landed a job with the Max Fleischer studio, then in New York. He began as an opaquer, did some inking and inbetween work. Before rising to assistant animator status, John left Fleischer’s to work for Hal Horne, who was hiring artists to work on the Mickey Mouse Magazine. Besides drawing characters and illustrations for the magazines, Stanley also drew some covers, among which may have been the very first large-size Mickey Mouse Magazine cover!

In 1968, Bill Spicer’s Graphic Story Magazine Through his association with Horne, Stanley carried an interview with Dan Noonan in which next went to work for the Kay Kamen outfit, he paid tribute to a fellow artist and story man This plaque reads “1977 Comic Art drawing characters for the Disney merchandise with whom he had worked at Western Publishing Convention - John Stanley. For using your items including the character drawing for one of Company. The colleague’s name was John Stanley, excellence of wit, skill, and spirit to give the Mickey Mouse watches. and Noonan remarked that he regarded Stanley as pleasure to those of us who love comic art.” But the con took place in 1976—honest! a brilliant idea man. He also noted that Stanley Around this time (1937-1940) Stanley attended had been responsible for the Little Lulu comic the Art Students League evenings, taking up book stories. Well, this article made me aware of the name John Stanley lithography. By his own admission, he didn’t learn much about lithogfor the first time, but Little Lulu was certainly not unfamiliar to me. raphy, but he did meet a group of “good-time guys” who believed in revelry and a whole lot of tipping the elbow … it was a more personally During the ’50s, my reading habits, as far as comic books were satisfying experience than his stint at the New York School of Art had concerned, started when I was five years old with a subscription to Walt been. John freelanced for a year, selling cartoons to various magazines, Disney’s Comics and Stories. From then on, the whole Dell menagerie before going to work for Western Publishing under editor Oscar became fast and lasting childhood friends. Gradually, though, tastes Lebeck. With regards to his being given the Lulu job: “Oscar handed me changed, and Superman and his “family” displaced much of the Dell the assignment, but I’m sure it was due to no special form of brilliance coterie … but not all! Someone quite unknown to me at that time was that he thought I’d lend to it. It could have been handed to Dan doing masterful things with a character called Scrooge McDuck. But just Noonan, Kelly, or anyone else. I just happened to be available at the as masterful to me were the stories contained within a seemingly innocutime.” Thus, with typical Stanley modesty, we learn about the ously-drawn comic book called Little Lulu. Published monthly, Little Lulu featured an average of four stories an issue … but what stories! They were cohesive and tightly constructed, with nary a loose thread in the plot. Most importantly however, they were unsurpassed on a purely literary level by any of the so-called “kid strips” done then or now. John Stanley was, of course, the reason for the strip’s success. He both wrote and drew the early Four Color issues, and he continued to write the “Little Lulu” and “Tubby” stories right up until he left the books to work on other chores during the late ’50s. His dealings with Western Publishing became so strained toward the end (the late ’60s) that he turned his back completely on comic book work, and he is now working for a silk screening company in upstate New York. He is understandably bitter about his handling at Western (for years the Lulu books have featured reprints of his stories without any credit or compensation), the company he had toiled for for over twenty years. Because of this and the fact that he is a shy man by nature, the last ever to blow his own horn, so to speak, it has been difficult for anyone in fandom to contact him. Bob Overstreet and I visited Stanley for the first time a number of months ago. He was tremendously gracious and every bit as unassuming as I found Carl Barks to be upon my first visit with him. There are many similarities between the two men, paramount of which is their disbelief that their work is being taken so seriously, or, more aptly, that their work is being enjoyed by such a growing number of fans. Fan mail was never forwarded to them, so they had no idea just to what extent, if any, their work was being appreciated. To find out so long after the fact surely was a bit overwhelming. The personal history of both Barks and Stanley is still hazy, but we have garnered some facts about the elusive Mr. Stanley:

John Stanley

Kamen Art Department, 1937. That’s John Stanley in upper right corner. Anybody know who those other guys are?

embryonic beginnings of the Lulu comic book strip. Stanley had inherited a character who had appeared in The Saturday Evening Post for some ten years. Little Lulu was a thin waif-like figure (adorned by the ever present bell-shaped dress), and she appeared in panel gag strips shocking various bosomy, dowager-like, Mel Crawford, Dan Noonan, John Stanley, and Dan Gormley looking over the shoulder matronly characters with her mischievousness. She was of Western Publishing comics editor Oscar Lebeck. the female precursor of Dennis the Menace. Within four years of experimentation, this one-dimensional adult reader’s subconscious that perhaps had been resting there since character was rounded out and given substance by John Stanley. So childhood, needing only the Stanley nudge to work its way out, much so that Lulu went monthly and was one of the best-selling titles resulting in the reader’s total enjoyment. that Dell published. Such memorable characters as Witch Hazel, Little Itch, Wilbur Van Snobbe, Clarence McNabbem, Mr. Kohlkutz, and Grandpa Feeb were all created by Stanley. Tubby’s clubhouse gang was a wonderfully delicate rendering of the “kid gang” genre: happiness was the cozy confines of their clubhouse, sans girls! The Witch Hazel stories were nothing less than a legitimate form of children’s literature; Tubby’s “Spider” stories were often hilarious take-offs of the detective motif. Now there was really no doubt about it, Little Lulu Comics (and its offshoot, Tubby Comics) was a legitimate classic, possibly the best ever in its field! It is amazing how good the stories remained throughout the years, given the limited framework that Stanley had to work with. The stories all took place within the same neighborhood confines (Stanley was through with the strip when they had Lulu going to Alaska, Hawaii, and other exotic locales, although he did do the summer camp stories), and one would imagine that there were only so many variations on the boy-girl conflict thing. So how did they retain their freshness? A big reason is that he captured beautifully the mannerisms and slang of the neighborhood kids. It always amazed me how much insight Stanley had regarding children. There wasn’t an issue that came out which did not contain some gesture, word inflection, or mannerism which amused and amazed the child reader because of its mirrorlike quality and which unlocked something in the

Another reason why the Lulu stories worked so beautifully was the delineation of the role-playing within the strip. The Saturday Evening Post Lulu was a blacken-every-boy’s-eye type of character. A legitimate tomboy. The Stanley Lulu character was much more subtle. After the early experimental issues, the character evolved into a wonderfully delicious “proper young lady” prototype. Lulu gave tea parties, had picnics with her friend Annie and her dollies, was invariably chosen to run errands for her teacher, Miss Feeney… a very smart young lady. Tubby and his pals, meanwhile, were resolute in their determination to stay away from girls and not be tainted by their presence, even going so far as to celebrate “Mumday,” the first Monday of every month, during which none of the clubhouse gang were allowed to speak to girls, not even their mothers!

Stanley’s subtlety was in presenting us with little scenarios in which Tubby and Lulu were very consciously striving to stay within their roles. Stanley let us know that Lulu was a very strong character who, when she chose to abandon her “proper” role, could, “shoot dice with the best of ‘em.” Tubby, meanwhile, was usually thwarted and got his comeuppance from Lulu, but he was entirely undaunted because he firmly believed in the sacred order of things, i.e. boys are the chosen people. A neat example of this comes from a story where Iggy is confidently berating Lulu when, in the process of trying to stop the boys from traipsing through

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

her living room, she proclaims her rights. Iggy states: “Rights? Why, you have no more rights than a cat, Lulu. Look at this way, when people wanna have a kid, what’s their first choice? A boy. What if they can’t have a boy? Why, then they have a dog. If they can’t have a dog then they want a cat and if they can’t have a cat then they have to be satisfied with a GIRL!” Stanley was taking on the role-playing mores so prevalent in the ’50s.

John Stanley wrote scripts for a multitude of Dell titles, from Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig to Choo-Choo Charlie. Unfortunately, it would be virtually impossible to string together a Stanley index, as he cannot distinguish what scripts he did specifically other than the obvious ones. An example of his typical script submission is reprinted here. All of his scripts followed this format of pencil rough along with dialogue. He did the inking for most of the Little Lulu and Tubby covers, however. It’s interesting to note that Stanley did the scripts for many Nancy and Sluggo Comics, and in doing so, created a character as memorable as any from the Lulu stable, Oona Goosepimple, the strange sometime-playmate of Nancy’s. He also did two Nancy and Sluggo Summer Camp annuals à la Lulu. The following are a few comments by John Stanley from an informal conversation: On Oscar Lebeck: “An impressive, imposing man who could sell himself anywhere. A good editor in that he gave free rein to the artists.” On Mo Gollub (artist responsible for the beautiful Tarzan cover paintings of the ’50s): “Mo was one of those seemingly crotchety guys with a heart of gold. A nice man and a very meticulous man. Some of his humor stuff had a Kellyish look to it, but that was the Disney influence that Mo didn’t particularly care for. He was actually a better draftsman than Walt Kelly but not as good a comic draftsman.” On Walt Kelly: “Well, most of the artists were mainly concerned with their own stuff, and there were some petty jealousies going on here

and there, but when Kelly walked into the Western office with a stack of his art under his arm, everyone would stop what they were doing to read it. Everyone knew that he was something special. He loved to play jokes and, invariably, he would whip up some special drawing involving his intended target. I must admit that Walt and I painted the town many times. He was a very enjoyable guy to be with.” On Grandpa Feeb: “An old-timer who impressed some people as being senile but who was really blessed with a return-to-innocence quality while retaining all his mental powers.” On the finished interior art in Little Lulu: “I complained constantly trying to get a change of artist but to no avail. It was too static for me. I would rather have had faster movement.” Finally, I’d like to relate what happened during my visit to the San Rio animation studio in Hollywood this summer. Mo Gollub was a director at the studio, and I approached him to extend wishes on behalf of John Stanley. Mo dropped his pencil, looked up at me, and said, “John Stanley. God, could we use him at the studio here. One of the greatest story men I’ve ever known, and he’s always been the last person to ever talk about his own merits.” Mo’s comments sum up both Stanley’s talent and character in the most succinct terms possible.

In regards to the restricting format involved with the Lulu stories, Stanley remarked, “After a while I ceased to enjoy the writing of the strip because it was so hard to tap new ideas; there was only so much you could do with the neighborhood boy-girl format.” And that’s the whole point. It is my personal opinion that no one else could have milked the variety of plot ideas out of such a limited premise except John Stanley. Just as it was blasphemy for someone else to take over the Pogo strip after the death of Walt Kelly and for anyone else to attempt an Uncle Scrooge story after Barks’ retirement, so it is with Little Lulu and John Stanley—no one else should ever attempt to write Little Lulu. It shall ever belong to one man only.

John Stanley

Script drawing: Opening page of the first (unpublished) Oona Goosepimple story in Nancy and Sluggo Comics by John Stanley. This was the same format used by Stanley for all his “Little Lulu” and “Tubby” stories. It was Stanley’s unique way of scripting, begun in the 1940s and picked up by other artists at Western. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Michael again. We hope you’ve enjoyed Don Phelps’ 1976 article on John Stanley. We recently contacted Don, requesting permission to reprint it, and received the following reply: Mr. Gilbert ... Nice to be remembered after all these years—go ahead and reprint the NewCon article—it’s fine with me. Please note … that the article was written the night before the program book deadline. So much “Sturm und Drang” associated with putting on a convention of that magnitude (if you remember, we also had Carl Barks at the show). I would have liked to have polished it up a bit, but it ended up okay, I guess. I loved the guy. John Stanley was one of the most honest and talented men of integrity that I ever met in the field of arts. A wonderful artist and ... those stories!!!! I married rather late in life and read the “Lulu” and “Tubby” stories to my two children at bedtime when they were tykes. I don’t know who enjoyed them more, myself or the children. When they were a little older, they watched the HBO Little Lulu series and were delighted to find some of those favorite stories adapted into animated form. I was saddened to see, however, that the credits held no mention of the name “John Stanley,” and I was almost glad that he wasn’t around to see it. I met him six or seven times and still cherish those meetings. We were both guys whose roots were deeply imbedded in our “city” backgrounds, and I felt that we connected because of that. He was so down to earth that I never felt in awe of him until afterwards, when it dawned

46 on me that I had been in the company of genius. And I don’t mean that in sycophantic “fan-boy” terms. It’s a simple fact that the man could spin picture book yarns like few before or after him. Please send my warmest regards to his son. He was very young when we met back in the ’70s, and I don’t even know if he remembers me. I think it’s important that he remains proud of his dad’s very special niche in comic history. I would appreciate a copy of the finished tribute whenever it gets done. Good luck and thanks for the contact.

stories he created so long ago are still cherished by his fans today. Next Issue: Ah, but that would be telling! Our sincere thanks to Jim Stanley, Don Phelps, Gary Groth, and Dave Fontaine for their help with this edition of Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt.

Till next time...

Best, Don Thank you, Don! Clearly, the decades haven’t diminished your love for John Stanley! And Don’s not alone. Even after John Stanley’s death in 1993, interest in him and “Little Lulu” continues. Fanzines like The Stanley Steamer and The HoLLywood Electern celebrate this quiet genius, as do Internet groups like the aptly-named johnstanleycomixgenius. In the late ’80s, Gladstone Publishing produced The Little Lulu Library, a set of deluxe hardcovers collecting all Stanley’s “Little Lulu” stories. More recently, Dark Horse Comics began reissuing many of these tales in a series of thick digest-sized books. John Stanley would have been amused by all the attention. And pleased, I think, to know that the

POSTSCRIPT: We recently learned that 84-year-old Fred Kelly, creator of the Golden Age Mr. Monster, passed away on September 14, 2005. I was sad to hear of his passing, little more than a year after collector Robert Pincombe located him, decades after he’d vanished from the comic book field. We plan to devote next issue’s column to telling how Robert found Fred, and the part Alter Ego played in that. We’ll also discuss how Fred and I finally met at Toronto’s Paradise Comicon in 2005—Fred’s first and only appearance at a comics convention. Our sincere condolences to his wife Rita.

Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

mgilbert00@comcast.net

For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

A Comic Fandom Archive Special Multi-Part Series...

Leonard Darvin Speaks–– About The Comics Code Part 3 of “1966: The Year Of THREE H) New York Comicons!” (Or Maybe 2H Interview Edited by Bill Schelly

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

ntroduction: Starting two issues ago, the Comic Fandom Archive is devoting several installments to a series of pieces related to the (more or less) three comics conventions held in New York City over a 6-month period between July 1966 and January 1967: a “mini-con” sponsored by Calvin Beck’s Castle of Frankenstein magazine—a full-scale convention hosted by EC fan John Benson—and, only three weeks after the latter, a convention put on by David Kaler, who had produced the “Academy Con” the year before. The Beck con could count perhaps as half a convention; hence our series’ title. It and the 2nd KalerCon will be discussed upon completion of the coverage of the Benson con. Parts I & II presented an overall view of that gathering at the Park Sheraton Hotel in Manhattan on July 23-24, 1966. This issue presents a key partial transcription of a panel from that con. Comic book fans had been longing to express their frustration with the Comics Code Authority, which was seen as censorship—even if self-imposed by the comics industry itself, in response to the hue and outcry about violent comics in the early 1950s. Rarely have the fans ever been able to go head-to-head with an administrator of the CCA, or with “private citizens” (such as Dr. Fredric Wertham) whose agitation led to its creation. The Code was widely viewed as thinly-veiled censorship, and as the cause of the demise of EC and other comics companies after it was adopted in 1954-55. The following, then, is a rare treat, courtesy of audio tapes from the convention in the possession of John Benson. This con’s initial panel was a debate between Leonard Darvin, acting administrator of the Comics Code Authority, and Don Thompson, Cleveland, Ohio, journalist and

co-founder of the fanzine Comic Art, which was then on a hiatus which, alas, eventually became permanent. Before the hour was over, Darvin had to face the organization’s most vitriolic critic: Ted White, a comics fan with a special fondness for the EC comics he had bought off the stands in the 1950s, had a bone to pick with the Code about the behind -the-scenes drama that had resulted in the demise of EC. Actually, Leonard Darvin had looked upon comics fans with a friendly eye when he first learned about comicdom in the early ’60s. At one point, in 1964, he was actively helping a group of New York fans organize a national comicon, though the plans of George Pacinda and friends fell apart in disarray. So it’s not surprising that Darvin accepted the invitation

And In This Corner… 1960s photos of the two scheduled debaters of the ’66 Benson Con’s first “panel,” flanking the Comics Code Authority’s seal of approval: (Above right:) Code administrator Leonard Darvin, flanked by two women who worked on the Code staff, reviewing comics pages submitted by the member companies. An attorney by profession, Darvin had been with the Code Authority since its founding in the mid-1950s, as a branch of the new Comics Magazine Association of America; in 1967 he became its third administrator, succeeding Judge Charles F. Murphy and Mrs. Guy Percy Trulock (the latter had retired in late 1965). Though at the time of the 1966 con he was only “acting administrator,” Darvin would soon be appointed officially to the post and would hold it for the next decade or so. He supplied this photo in 1969 for Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #10, which featured a short article by him, as well as reprinting the Code itself. (Left:) Don and Maggie Thompson, seen on the left, chatting with Roy Thomas when they first met at a Chicago fan-meet held over Christmas vacation in 1964. Both Maggie and Roy were in the audience at this panel, and will be heard from next issue. Don passed away in 1994. This photo first appeared in Bill Schelly’s acclaimed book, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom.

Comic Fandom Archive

proffered by John Benson to appear at his 1966 New York Comicon. However… it’s probably a safe bet that he had no idea what he was getting into! Note: Due to the repetitive nature of Mr. Darvin’s comments—his opening speech—it has been necessary to apply a somewhat heavier editorial hand to the transcript. However, every effort has been made to maintain the speaker’s intent and meaning, and to accurately portray the basic logic that he follows to make his points.

“Hearing These Boos…Was A Refreshing Experience” JOHN BENSON: I’m very excited at this time in the program. We have a debate between Don Thompson, the editor of Comic Art, and Mr. Leonard Darvin, the acting [Comics] Code administrator [sound of boos from audience], and they’ve already started fighting. They are going to make short statements first, and then rebuttal…. LEONARD DARVIN: After Don and I get through, I will answer questions which I imagine might be a little more pointed than those that Don might throw at me. I might say at the outset that hearing these boos when my name was mentioned is a refreshing experience, because I take it that the boos come from the fact that the Code is restrictive. Yet for the past eleven years I’ve appeared before groups that tell me that the Code isn’t strong enough, and that we’re in the pay of the publishers, and we’re absolute frauds and kept people. So I enjoy hearing the other side and it’s an unusual experience for me to have to defend the Code from the opposite direction. I suppose I have to start by explaining what the Code is. I think my

best explanation could be in one of the rooms out there, where the old comics are being sold. I saw several that would really explain the argument [in favor of the Code], I think, even to fans who rightfully— and I appreciate their attitude because I share it—feel that the Code has restrained the development of comic art, comic writing, and the comic magazine as a creative type of literature. Now, those magazines with titles using the words Fear, Horror, Terror, or the various derivations of those words, go far beyond even the special types of magazines that have since been developed dealing with monsters. They have a combination of the most weird, ugly—and I want to stress that word, ugly—horrendous type of character that the mind could conceive, combined with the most beautiful, luscious girls, in a situation where the girl comes to no good. When you reach my age—or long before my age—I think you’ll know a parent or [personally] have responsibility for youngsters who are fascinated by comics. One of the strangest phenomena is the tremendous love and enjoyment people have who read comics from the time they’re old enough to see, and certainly when they’re old enough to read. This [is why comics have] such a hardy characteristic that all of the pressure that [horror comics generated] against the medium was not able to overpower it. Because comics were identified [as a medium for] the youngsters … because of their humorous nature. At first they were mainly the kiddie type. Not very long after, it was apparent that there was a desire to take this kind of medium and catapult it in the kind of vein that even Playboy wouldn’t dare publish today … and bring it into the home. You can imagine the reaction. There can be such a thing as going too far in trying to protect the needy. I believe that, even though I make my living out of enforcing this Code. I’m very much against censorship. I’ve been executive secretary of the Comics Magazine Association for almost eleven years and acting Code administrator for only ten months. And I haven’t been appointed

The Fear/Terror/Horror Of It All Len Darvin’s reference to “those magazines with titles using the words ‘fear,’ ‘horror,’ ‘terror’” was almost certainly a reference to EC Comics’ famous/infamous trio The Haunt of Fear, The Vault of Horror, and Tales from the Crypt (which actually had changed its name from The Crypt of Terror after one issue, but which still used that phrase prominently in the mags themselves). But there were numerous other 1950s comics that used “fear” and “terror” in the title. Witness the Shelly Moldoff (?) cover for Fawcett’s Worlds of Fear #5 (1952)—and L.B. Cole’s for Star Publications’ Startling Terror Tales #5 and The Horrors #13 (both 1953). Oddly, although “Terror” was especially common in titles of comics, we turned up very few early-’50s comics with the actual word “Horror” in their names. Even The Horrors featured three different type of “horror” in the subtitles of its five issues: of War (twice), of Mystery (once), and of the Underworld (also twice). Of course, there was also Comic Media’s Horrific. The Comics Code forbade the use of the words “horror” or “terror”—but not “fear”—in the titles or even on the covers of comic books. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Leonard Darvin Speaks––About The Comics Code

I think comics have shown improvement from that time. The quality of art is better, the quality of writing is infinitely better. The characters are subtler, three-dimensional; they have a soul. When they act, their motivations are strong, and those of you who know anything about writing know that these are the ingredients of good writing. And maybe people who used to resent all comic books, regardless of what the subject was, today realize that they’re educational, that they have an educational value. They see that comics are now more interesting because they have better motivations and better art. I think that the Code has had a part in that development. With that, I’ll stop for now. Thank you. [applause]

Code administrator yet, but there seems to be some question whether I will—mostly in my own mind. Sometimes I feel a great deal like Lincoln, when he was asked how it feels to be President. He said, “I feel like the guy who was tarred and feathered and carried out of town on a pole. If it wasn’t for the honor of it, I’d rather walk.” I’d just as well not have to become Code administrator, because my job originally was to promote comics, in the sense of [forestalling] the efforts by groups that would make the Code too restrictive. When I say that I’m against censorship as such, so is the industry. So are the people that are paying me. We spend a lot of time fighting restrictive legislation, we spend a lot of time going to those groups who I’m saying most always feel we haven’t gone far enough, to explain to them that we enforce the Code reasonably for reasonable people. We don’t go along with those who feel that comics must be entirely in the area of kiddie comics, that every story should be a Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm—that any kind of action is extremely vile.

“Hideous Distortions of Life, Art, and Morality In Comics”

Ugly Is As Ugly Does We’ll ’fess up! Neither Bill nor Ye Editor had the time to go a-searching for post-1955 comics in which Superboy displayed an unseemly prejudice against green Martians, or in which the last lad of Krypton threw acid in the face of “Ma and Pa Kent,” before they were revealed to be robots or some such. We’ll take the word of the late Don Thompson, a journalist who did his legwork, that both existed. But here’s the flip side of that Codeapproved coin—the Boy of Steel befriending a hideous creature, in Adventure Comics #274 (July 1960). Art by George Papp? [©2005 DC Comics.]

We represent the industry which exists to produce a product that is fun. There were too many comics that any reasonable person would say are not proper types of publications. Not because they’re sexy. It’s because they give off a distorted, ugly, completely wrong attitude towards art or life, and are definitely vicious in intent and purpose. People do those without any thought or skill, and hadn’t even thought of telling a good story. They simply slap [distorted ugliness] to make money, and with no thought of the consequences.

A lot of people say that publishers pay us, so how can we administer the Code in an honest way? Well, I have news for them: we are very honest. The professionals who are here can tell you that. We use our judgment independently. The publisher has the right to appeal our decisions to the Board of Directors—which they don’t do, but they can—because it’s a self-regulation program. And while we’re interested in protecting the public, our job is to protect the publishers from their own greed. Some will look at a particular comic, and see that it seems to be violent, that some of the characters are really pretty strong, and they’ll say, “How can you allow that?” Well, we don’t expect a character who’s supposed to be a bad guy to look like a Sunday School teacher. However, I do think that one of the things that makes comics popular today is that the hero is clearly defined, the villain is clearly defined. We don’t want to go back to that situation where you have a combination of horror, terror, and sex, all in one piece. We will only let things go so far. But aside from [horror and sexual content], there is all the latitude in the world.

DON THOMPSON: I will be quite brief. At first, I’m going to sound as though I’m defending the Comics Code. Len mentioned the distortions of life, art, and morality in the comics before the Code. I’d like to give just a couple of examples that are, to my mind, very hideous distortions of life, art, and morality in comic books.

There was a “Superboy” story in which a green Martian came to Earth and everybody said, “Yecch, there are green Martians. Get out of here and go back where you came from. We don’t want your kind around here.” He wandered around, inadvertently doing various damage. When Superboy showed up, he said to the green Martian in very understanding tones, “Yeah, you’re a green Martian. Go back where you came from. We don’t want your kind around here.” [laughter] This is, of course, is paraphrased. In another “Superboy” story, Ma and Pa Kent suffered from a rather common failing of theirs—they were replaced by robots, although this is not made clear throughout the story. But Superboy, through his own unfathomable thought processes, deduces that they are robots and throws acid in their faces. There is a panel that contains no wording whatsoever, just a close-up of the faces of dear sweet, kindly old Ma and Pa Kent being dissolved away in large gray patches. [laughter] In the next panel, it is explained that they are robots—or perhaps they were short creatures with false heads, I’m really not sure. But in any case, the acid was not affecting them and was, in truth, only water. But it was not made clear to the very young reader, who needs to be protected from this sort of thing because he doesn’t read every word in the comic books. Another example: a story about a pilot who is killed flying a plane, but manages to hold the plane on a level course so that another man can climb up a rope ladder from it and destroy an enemy vessel. The cover of the magazine has devoted at least half to the depiction of the dead face. The story is called “The Fighter Who Died Twice,” and the hero on

Comic Fandom Archive

the cover is saying words to the effect that, “I hope that dead pilot can keep this plane flying steady.” He is identified, in other words, very clearly as being dead and his face, his dead face, is shown throughout most of the comic book, which I would say is a breach of taste. My point on all this is that all of these comics have the little trading stamp up in the corner that says “Approved by the Comics Code Authority,” [audience chuckles] and all appeared within the last four years. To my way of thinking, these distortions and these gruesomenesses—if such a term even exists—are every bit as bad as the walking dead… which, coincidentally, we still have with us. Has anyone looked at a Bob Hope or a Jerry Lewis comic book? They would seem to be quite innocuous, but there are mummies and there are werewolves and there are vampires. This is unfair! [loud laughter]

was Tales Calculated to Drive You Bats, published by Archie Publications beginning in November 1961. —Bill.] Bats came out, using these characters in a humorous manner, and we said, “No, you can’t do that. The Code forbids these characters.” I mean, the characters did nothing horrible.

I’m Just Wild About Hairy As Don points out, vampires and werewolves, or something very much like them, were creeping into such comics as The Adventures of Bob Hope #103 (Feb.-March 1967)—as was Ol’ Ski-Nose’s imminent replacement, SuperHip, who looked a lot like the younger brother of the legendary comedian. Art by Carmine Infantino & Mike Esposito; script by Arnold Drake. Thanks to Bob Bailey for the scan. [©2005 DC Comics.]

I got this copy of the Comics Code from Len. He knew I’d use it against him. The Code strictly prohibits the use of vampires and werewolves and some of the other monsters. They appear in The Adventures of Bob Hope and The Adventures of Jerry Lewis, which along with the various Jetsons and similar children’s comic books, are bought by and for the little children that the Code is supposed to be protecting. The Comics Code is supposed to prevent this sort of thing, and it’s not. It seems if the Code is to exist—I’m not arguing against the Code, because I think it is a reality with which we have to live—it should be administered fairly, and I don’t believe it is. Len, you want to hit me up on this?

DARVIN: Well, of course, the Code is administered as fairly as possible. We’re human and we operate with a staff, most of whom have been with us a long time. We have precedents, and one of the things I assure you as that we don’t exercise the rules differently for one publisher or another. Let me explain. First of all, the Code, as we interpret it, is a living document. I think you gave the example of the use of stereotyped, previouslyconsidered horror figures like Frankenstein, Dracula, and so on, in a humorous context. Let me tell you some historical background. The Code very definitely forbids vampirism or werewolfism, and if you can find it in Bob Hope, or in Jerry Lewis, or in any other comic, please let me know. The fact that you found these characters shows the dynamism of the Code in the way we administer it and prevent it from becoming a stilted thing that it would become if it were administered by an outside agency of the law. That’s the difference between a self-regulation program and a program administered by bluenoses who have no interest in the development of the art or the industry, but simply want to put a lid on it. What happened was this: a magazine appeared about four years ago called Bats. It was not by the biggest publisher. [NOTE: Its complete title

Sure enough, a year or so after that, The Munsters television show came out, and used these characters in a very gentle, friendly fashion. And then of course the others—they all get the same consideration and the same treatment because, say, 90% of our decisions are based on broad interpretations we make before we ever get a book, on precedent. Those [monster] characters as used in those titles mentioned, and in others, are used humorously. They’re gentle, friendly people. They may look like something, but they don’t act like it and it’s the way they act that counts. And they don’t create a horrendous appearance to the reader because he’s now become acquainted.

Now, the other instance that Don mentioned... you know, the Devil’s Advocate always takes the other guy’s view to beat them down. So now he’s using the things we didn’t do and should have done.

When you see someone who’s obviously dead, you say, “That’s against the interpretation of the walking dead.” First of all, we do not allow a close-up of a person who’s obviously dead, like with the mouth open, the eyes staring. We think that’s horrendous. We don’t allow an open coffin where someone is lying there, dead. But when somebody dies in battle, as is inevitable, and there’s a long shot, or something like that, we feel that this would be stretching the Code to make [that the equivalent of] the walking dead. In other words, you will find that if you want to be literal and [extremely strict], you will find many, many cases of violation of every single tenet in this Code. That has been a problem when we’ve hired school teachers to administer the Code—they tend to

Monsters And Munsters Len Darvin admitted that the Comics Code felt it had to give a hard time to Archie Comics’ Tales Calculated to Drive You Bats, produced by the team of George Gladir (writer) and Orlando Busino (artist)—both of whom were interviewed in Alter Ego #49, our 2003 Halloween issue. The splash at left is from Bats #1 (Nov. 1961). Pretty scary, huh, kids? Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Orlando Busino. [©2005 Archie Publications, Inc.] Shortly afterward, The Munsters debuted on TV, and the type of “horror”/humor fare represented by Bats was being piped into millions of homes every week. [©2005 Universal Pictures, Inc.]

Leonard Darvin Speaks––About The Comics Code

be mechanical [i.e., superficial] in the way they make their determinations. We’ve been praised for by the National Office for Decent Literature and legislators for the lack of any sex in a Code-approved comic. You may find a bust an inch or two larger than it should be. This is the area we feel [vulnerable to] legislation being passed against us. We feel that girlie magazines cover the field beautifully, and they’re nowadays not too much more expensive than the quarter comics sold. We eliminate that, and we eliminate that with a pretty strong knife. But when it comes to things that might be interpreted in the technical area, we hate like the Devil to tell an artist—and most of the artists today are really pros and some of them I consider among the finest artists in the country—to change something due a technical rule. We think and think hard. How does it affect the story? If it is purely a technicality, we forget about it. But always keep this in mind, that the areas that we forbid, the areas of taking pure muck and mixing it up on a four-color page, is where we draw the line. We do make mistakes. Lately, we’ve had very interesting cases where we get reprints coming through in the quarter editions putting in stories that were approved by us in 1960. I say, “How the devil did we approve this?” Then I see that I was the one who approved some of these things. We make mistakes, without regard to publisher. They are honest mistakes.

Bosom Buddies Don T. may have felt that Dumb Bunny of DC’s Inferior Five was pretty voluptuous as drawn by Joe Orlando for the cover of Showcase #62 (May-June 1966)—but he was aware she didn’t hold a candle to the queen of the “headlight” comics, seen at right in Fox’s Phantom Lady #15 (Dec. 1947). Art for the latter is by the great Matt Baker, whose life and work were spotlighted in A/E #47 (hint, hint)—retouched here by Bill Black and his AC Comics associates for the compilation Golden Age Greats, Vol. 2. For a full listing of AC’s goodies, check out their website at accomics.com. [Inferior Five art ©2005 DC Comics; restored Phantom Lady art ©2005 AC Comics.]

“We Wouldn’t Expect Her To Be Flat-Chested” THOMPSON: On the subject of no sex in the comics, there is a Showcase title called “The Inferior Five,” which has a heroine called Dumb Bunny whose costume and physical attributes are very sexy. Maybe I’m more easily aroused than you guys! [laughter, applause] DARVIN: Don, I’m much older than most of the people in this audience, but I’m not really that old. I know the character you are talking about. We wouldn’t expect her to be flat-chested. That would give the kids a distortion. [laughter] We approved the [“Inferior Five”] story. We get some of them that are really way out in this area… but we don’t allow “headlight” comics, which were very popular in the old days. But occasionally, we approve a story when the whole book is clean in that respect—but might have two [prominent] busts in the whole book. We might let that go. The thing that got the comics into trouble on that score was where a gal was lying back, all spread apart [sic], with a torn dress undone. The heroes, the types of heroines that Don is talking about are gals who are super-characters or important characters in the story—they’re usually powerful, strong, good-looking girls, and we want them that way. I was asked, “How come you allow bikinis?” My answer was, “If you show them off the beach, we won’t allow it.” Anyone can see a girl

in a bikini at the beach. Ideally, a beautiful body is not ugly and not something to be kept from a child. As far as forbidding any sexual relationships, intimated or implied, this is something that may seem overly-moral about the Code. In the case of romance stories, they’re about the most inane “boy meets girl” type of story you can imagine. But we do watch it pretty carefully. We do allow a girl to be … well, I would say “well-stacked,” not beyond. THOMPSON: Fine. Anyone who saw some of the pre-Code Fox magazines would admit, I think, if they’re being honest about it, that they were in extremely bad taste in terms of the old “headlight” comics, as you were so happy to call them. Len, I saw a lot of people waving their hands, and—apparently—there are a lot of questions out here. So— anyone? The Q&A section of this panel, including Darvin’s heated exchange with Ted White, will be sieen in our next issue. On a note of self-interest, please check out my website at www.billschelly.com to find out which Hamster Press books are currently available. There’s a lot of information there to help you choose among our selection. These books do sell out, you know. Examples of books no longer in print are The Comic Fandom Reader, Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine, and Age of Wonder: The Life and Times of Otto Binder. Also, see our ad for the book Labors of Love on the very next page.

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55 discharged by Prescott Airlines and turned away when seeking other employment. The problems are revealed as having been brought on by a bearded, scar-faced stranger ... a “Mr. Wells”! By page 3, Mickey, now in his costume as The Phantom Eagle, discovers the stranger, and a fight ensues. After 10 or 11 panels of fierce fisticuffs and rather uncharacteristic dialogue, the scrap ends with Mr. Wells losing his false beard, and Mickey being trussed up helplessly ... with handy straps presumably brought along by the stranger for the purpose. They take off in the Cometplane ... Phantom Eagle securely tied in the cockpit beside the stranger seated at the controls.

After hours of flying ... and exchanging verbal jabs ... they settle down on a runway, as the Eagle exclaims, “Holy hokus! Washington, D.C.!”

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. This issue, he covers a rare crossover story he drew in Wow Comics. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

In Captain Marvel Adventures #35, May 1944, Pep Pepper, a private in the U.S. military, with mind-reading powers, was launched as Radar, the International Detective. Recapped in Master Comics #50, May ’44, the feature continued in that magazine until #87. According to one history, the character Radar was introduced by no less a committee than Bob Hope, Dorothy Lamour, Captain Marvel, “Franklin,” “Winston,” and “Joe.”

“Gets His Wings” was not the original title to the Phantom Eagle story in Wow. On the typed script it was “The Dark Stranger.” It was a crossover ... one of those tales where one hero steps over onto the pages

n Wow Comics #49 there appeared a story wherein Mickey Malone, young aircraft mechanic, in reality the famed flyer, The Phantom Eagle, “Gets His Wings.” It opens with Mickey being

The story continues with The Phantom Eagle being taken to a decrepit building where his bonds are removed and he is introduced to a distinguished group that turns out to be the International Council of World Airlines. Mr. Wells then removes his own fake facial scars and reveals himself as Radar, the International Detective. What follows is a page ... eight panels of talk ... with the Eagle accepting the assignment of International Trouble Shooter of the Air ... representing the World Airlines Council. And to justify the title, he is awarded his wings.

Mickey Malone, Meet Pep Pepper—And Marc, Meet P.C.! (Left:) Panels drawn by Marc Swayze from “The Phantom Eagle Gets His Wings” in Wow Comics #49 (Nov. 1947). This tale co-starred Radar, the International Detective/Policeman. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.] (Right:) After a decade of working together on FCA, Marc and editor P.C. Hamerlinck finally met in person in 2005 when P.C. and family stopped by his home on a cross-country trek. Photo by Jennifer Hamerlinck.

“We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age!” of another and together they proceed to bust up the naughty fellows ... in this case ... each other. It was not the first crossover for The Phantom Eagle. In Wow #33 (Feb. ’45) he had enjoyed the company of Commando Yank in “The Iron Gate” ... as they battled their foes side by side. It wasn’t unusual that a title be changed prior to publication. It was unusual, however, that the finished art pages be held around the editorial offices more than a month or two. Completed artwork for “Gets His Wings” was mailed to the editors March 14, 1945 ... twenty months in advance of publication! Upon consideration of that period in our history, such a delay is understandable. 1945-46 ... many of the more important events of World War II happening ... wartime to peacetime changes occurring in just about everything ... even comic books. Not the ideal time to be sitting in the editor’s chair. Or the publisher’s! It’s interesting that not once, after “Gets His Wings” appeared in Wow in 1946, was he referred to as International Trouble Shooter of the Air of the World Airlines Council ... not by me ... not by any of the other writers. Why? Search me! [Marc Swayze will be back next issue for more memories of the Golden Age of Comics.]

Coming In Under The Radar Radar was first introduced in Captain Marvel Adventures #35 (May 1944), in a story whose splash page is repro’d here from P.C. Hamerlinck’s beat-up copy. Art by C.C. Beck & Pete Costanza. If Radar’s real monicker was indeed Pep Pepper, no wonder he used a code name! His telepathic and mindreading powers gave him an edge even on the World’s Mightiest Mortal. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

The Welcome Wagon—Fawcett Style Radar’s solo series began in Master Comics #50 (also May 1944)—and, like Captain Midnight and many other Fawcett heroes, he was welcomed into the fold personally by Captain Marvel. Radar lasted through Master #87 (Jan. 1948), and also starred in the entire Comics Novel #1, which was subtitled Anarcho – Master of Death. Fawcett executive editor Will Lieberson, who created and wrote the “Radar” series, revealed years later, as recorded by Ron Goulart, that the stories were “supervised” by the Office of War Information, and that he had conferred in Washington, D.C., with a committee that included well-known authors Clifton Fadiman, Rex Stout, and Paul Gallico. However, the OWI was never mentioned in any of the stories. [Radar art ©2005 the respective copyright holder; Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

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A Real-Life “Marvel Family” A 1973 Talk With Golden Age Artisans Jack & Otto Binder Interview Conducted by Richard Kyle

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Recently, our ofttimes (and valued) contributor Will Murray contacted Alter Ego about a three-decades-old audio tape that was in the possession of my 1960s fandom colleague Richard Kyle. The tape contained a by-mail “interview,” with questions sent via mail by Kyle to artist Jack Binder being answered by the latter on July 29, 1973—and, later in the tape, also by his writer brother Otto. Between them, the two siblings had drawn and written many fine stories in the 1940s and early ’50s for Fawcett, as well as for other companies; Otto wrote many, probably most, of the classic “Captain Marvel” tales from 1941 onward. In addition, until World War II drained away much of his work force, Jack also operated a comics shop/studio which supplied artwork to various companies, as noted in previous issues of A/E.

Our thanks to P.C. Hamerlinck for making this long-lost interview a part of this issue’s FCA, even though it meant delaying for a month or so a pair of shorter pieces originally planned for this issue, including the second part of his talk with Michael Uslan and a piece on Fawcett artist Emilio Squeglio, whose interior-cover drawing was still used this time around. Both those pieces will appear in the next couple of issues. P.C. and I wish to thank both Richard Kyle and Will Murray for making available this valuable first-person addition to Golden Age history, to Brian K. Morris for transcribing the interview from a most-unclear tape, and to both Richard and Jim Amash for going over the transcript to try to make this printed version as accurate as possible, since many words on the tape are basically unintelligible. We’ve tried to indicate places where this is the case. A/E readers with additional information or

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris speculations are invited to send them to us for a future “re:” section. And now, we’ll let Richard himself tell you of his involvement in the interview, which has been edited somewhat for ease of reading. —Roy. INTRODUCTION: In 1973, Jerry de Fuccio, then an associate editor of Mad, a sometime comic book writer, and a lifelong comics fan, was planning to write a book about early comic book artists. His idea was to publish re-creations by the artists of their original Golden Age work, and to accompany the new drawings with interviews and profiles. Paul Gustavson, Fred Guardineer, Frank Thomas, Tony DiPreta, and others contributed. Jack Binder was one of the contributors, as well. I conducted his interview for Jerry—by mail—at a time when I was editing the magazine Graphic Story World. Despite many plans, Jerry’s book never came to be. This is the first publication anywhere of this once-lost interview. —Richard Kyle.

“I Will Proceed To Answer Most Of Your Questions” JACK BINDER: This recording, made this 29th day of July 1973, especially for Richard Kyle. Richard, I was certainly glad to receive your letter. And I was greatly impressed and particularly happy that, even though we have never met, you have remembered us and said that we had a great impact on you and gave you so much enjoyment. I have gone over your letters several times and I will proceed to answer most of your questions and give you as much information as possible about the people you’ve made requests about.

A Man And His Art Jack Binder (on left) with fellow artist (and one-time employee) Pete Riss, circa 1950. This photo, one of a number sent by Otto Binder to Roy Thomas in 1964-65, was first printed in the 1997 trade paperback Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine. On the back, Otto wrote that Riss “was one of Jack’s mainstays in his art shop, staying to the very end and doing inking for countless jobs.” That “end” came in 1943, when the World War II draft had decimated the shop’s personnel. Although FCA’s own Marc Swayze visually designed Mary Marvel for her 1942 origin, and though C.C. Beck, Kurt Schaffenberger, and others drew her in “Marvel Family” tales, it’s Jack Binder more than any other artist who is identified with the look of the World’s Mightiest Girl for most of her Fawcett career. This drawing for the cover of Mary Marvel #5 (Sept. 1946) is repro’d from the 1976 edition of Maurice Horn’s World Encyclopedia of Comics. The entry on “Mary Marvel” notes that, artistically, “Jack Binder handled the strip with a verve and style rarely seen in his work. Known more for his organizational talents rather than his artwork, Binder constantly produced clean, pretty, and interesting interpretations. His backgrounding and panel details struck an aesthetic balance between C.C. Beck’s cartoonish ‘Captain Marvel’ and Mac Raboy’s illustrated ‘Captain Marvel Jr.’” Yeah, that’s about how we’d rate it. [©2005 DC Comics.]

A Real-Life “Marvel Family” [NOTE: At this point, Binder mentions several items he’s sending Kyle, including Photostats of the original art of two Winsor McCay Little Nemo Sunday pages (reduced to H size)—a McCay editorial cartoon done for Arthur Brisbane, famous early editor for the Hearst newspapers—a stat of the original cover McCay did for a How to Draw book (for which Jack Binder had done the layouts and Bob McCay, artist son of Little Nemo’s creator, the inking)—two Photostats of original work by Gill Fox—a full-sized unpublished “Other Worlds” illustration by JB himself—and “three Sunday page layouts in full color, done at the [Harry “A”] Chesler syndicate where I did the layouts for Little Nemo when we [Binder & Bob McCay] tried to revive it,” with the latter inking. The final item being sent— “two pieces of broadside advertising regarding Bob McCay and his father and his family”—Jack said was the only copy he had, so should be returned; Kyle was invited to keep all the others, though alas, he no longer has them.] You want to know if I was influenced by movies, by films, in my approach towards illustrating comics. My only approach was simply to tell a story without taking away from the story itself, not to overembellish with artwork, or to over-embellish into drawing a lot of unnecessary things. In other words, I tried to get right down to the nitty-gritty of what was going on in a particular panel and to somehow give a smooth and good continuity. We weren’t influenced by anything but our own need for doing the comics, and getting them out so that we wouldn’t miss a deadline; and also by the fact that we were so excited about this being our own work and our own creation. Except for following the general storyline or story plot as a script indicated or requested, we were on our own on how to best illustrate this particular panel and the story matter in it. I feel that today’s comics, or so-called comics, are too close to being just pure illustration. They don’t seem to have that simple approach to getting directly at the essence—or, as I term it, the nitty-gritty—regarding what I consider good storytelling.

Otto’s stories in that, also. And of course, when I came to New York, I started doing magazine illustrations for Street & Smith and for Ned Pines [publisher of the Standard/Thrilling pulps and later of the Thrilling/Nedor comic book line]. I did a feature called “If,” featuring the great people who influenced the world as scientists and so forth. I did those for quite a number of years. And through all of this, with the discipline and the need for doing saleable work, work that was acceptable to the publisher, for which he spent money—we, of course, had to extend ourselves and do the best we knew how. In magazine illustrating, I usually read the story and chose, or picked, my own spots to illustrate. So there again, we have to use good judgment and satisfy the editor and, in the final analysis, the reader as well. But the movies were far out of my mind in those days.

“Shop Talk” You ask about the great storytellers and shop talk about storytelling at Chesler’s. Well, beginning with Charlie Biro: Biro was a very intense, very sincere person, and he had a secret ambition of becoming, aside from being an artist, a radio announcer and an actor. He took part, even while he was at Chesler’s, in various plays and readings, I think he did finally wind up at one of the studios as a scene designer. [NOTE: According to Jerry Bails’ Who’s Who in American Comic Books, from 1962-72 Biro was a graphic designs artist for NBC-TV.] I don’t recall anything about his formal education background, but I do know that he mentioned the fact that he had worked in the animation field. I’m not sure whether he said Disney, or whether it was one of the other animation studios that were in existence at the time, but I do know that Charlie was an excellent animator, because I worked for, oh, about six months for Charlie Biro and Bob Wood [at Lev Gleason Publications]. [Tape pauses.]

The questioning in your letter about what I was influenced by in my work—you probably realize that I had 2H years at the Art Institute of Chicago, and that I studied under J. Allen St. John and his like, and also studied Life [Drawing] under George Poole [sp?]. I studied Perspective under Miss Lacey [sp?] and Graphics under Phipps. I took Color Theory under Shook [sp?], and took a special Anatomy course with Filbrick [sp?]; and of course Life Drawing and Cast Drawing [i.e., drawing from plaster casts], and Painting, and so forth, took up much of our time while I was a student. And, of course, you realize that after my year and a half in the copper and steel engraving business, which went bust, as you probably know from Steranko’s History [of Comics], I spent seven years away from the art field, but found my way back into it again by starting to do magazine illustrations for Farnsworth Wright for Weird Tales [magazine]. I illustrated a number of

Have Boomerang, Will Travel! One of the key art jobs of Jack Binder’s early comics career was the very first story of “The Daredevil,” in Silver Streak Comics #6 (Sept. 1940), from Your Guide Publications. This splash page with his byline has been repro’d from Alan Light’s 1970s black-&-white reprint. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Gill Fox, I think, was with us, too, at the [Fleischer] studio on Broadway. I recall in particular one humorous incident. I had charge of the inking and opaquing department, and occasionally I helped out in the composing room. And I recall, particularly, this film we did for the government at the time—it gave people an idea of the farmer. The government wanted to stress that agriculture was so very necessary and very important in our country. So anyway, this one scene showed a farmer in a wheat field. He had his wheat all in bags and he was tossing them onto a truck. Well, there’s someone who hadn’t gotten to the background man, so that truck [drawn there] was completely out of scale. And here was this farmer pitching sacks a mile a minute, and when we had put it into the composing section, there was a truck about the size of a toy truck standing beneath this great big pile of sacks of wheat hanging in mid-air. And this was about 12 o’clock, because they had a deadline to meet. I think it was the next day that that film was to be completed and

A 1973 Talk With Golden Age Artisans Jack & Otto Binder

delivered. So I called up Charlie Biro, got him out of bed in the middle of the night, and said, “Come on down. We’ve got to redraw this background in order to shoot this sequence.” And this was one of the incidents where Charlie Biro always showed his good sense of humor. He never seemed to get angry about anything. He’s really a very sociable and intelligent man. But Jack Cole [creator of “Plastic Man,” et al.] I don’t know too much about. I do remember that about the time he came to Chesler’s while I was there, he still had freshly in mind his trek across the country. I think it was by bicycle or something, and he was all excited about that and all the things he had seen. Mort Meskin I don’t remember at all. I think he did an awful lot of work outside of the studio, because Harry Chesler had quite a few artists, aside from those that were on the staff, who produced work for him at that time, while we were on Fifth Avenue. But each of us did have what you’d term a unique approach to comics. Now it’s true, this makes me think of the early one-reel cartoons with Charlie Chaplin and all the Keystone Cops, and so forth, where everybody was doing things, but we never really had a custom, then, to grow by. We just sort-of took the bull by the horns and said, “Well, this is the way the thing has to be done,” and we did it accordingly. And usually, if we stopped thinking and let our talent take over, the thing worked out pretty good. Regarding Bob McCay: Bob was a veteran of the First World War and was very nervous, and sort-of what you might call “shell-shocked” from the experience. When Bob worked at Chesler’s, he usually came to work in his mother’s chauffeur-driven car, and we had a separate studio set aside for him. His secretary was constantly at his side, and Mr. Chesler sort-of made Bob McCay my baby. And of course, when I started helping him out with his layouts and so forth, we got pretty well acquainted. Technically Bob’s father had trained him very well. He had his father’s techniques down to perfection, but Bob lacked his imagination and the will to do. And he was such a sociable guy. He’d stop at any minute to start telling what I call his “taffy tales.” I don’t know if you’ve even been to a taffy pull, but he would tell these stories that seemingly had no beginning and no end. They had a point, but the point went out in 15 different directions. But he was very interesting to listen to, particularly about his experiences in Europe during the war. He never spoke about the fighting itself, but he did tell us a lot of stories about his leaves— what they did, where they went, and who they met…. [His father’s] property Little Nemo had been given to Bob by King Features Syndicate, to use as he saw fit. So, after his contract with Chesler had terminated, he came to our [comics-producing] shop, and I put him to work trying to revive Little Nemo. We had convinced Street & Smith it might be a good thing. Otto wrote some of the stories. One of the greatest story writers for Nemo, as I recall, was George Nagle, who was at Chesler’s; he used to put many of these things in rhyme. But Bob worked at our place for several months and I just couldn’t get any production out of him. We finally decided this was not what we wanted to do. What happened to Bob after that, I don’t know. The last I heard from Harry Chesler was that he went to California and worked out there for a while. [Tape pauses.] Marcia Snyder is another you asked about. [NOTE: Richard Kyle says Jerry de Fuccio, a fan of Snyder’s, had posed the question about her through him.] Yes, she did work for us, and I believe she had been working for Fiction House. She was a wonderful illustrator and did a great deal of our work for SuperMagician, which was a [comics] magazine put out by Street & Smith. She was quite capable, and she had this what I call a “male

quality” of sticking through a job and getting it done. I had several other women artists working for me in those days, but usually, when it came to the hardcore business of sticking to it for 24 hours to make a deadline, we either had to get someone else to work or hire freelance artists to do them. [Tape pauses.] [Comics] were a great part of my life in those days, and I took them very seriously. In fact, when I had my first staffing at Englewood, New Jersey, I invested, on the average, about $1500 per man before they could really produce what I considered quality work. [NOTE: Kyle estimates this to be “about $25,000-$30,000 in today’s money, allowing for both inflation and increased taxation—an impressive amount of money seen in this light.”] And I would give [new artist assistants] demonstrations on how to really get involved in a story and to act this thing out and make believe that you are this particular character, and to give it everything the artist had. Of course, in a sense, they had to follow instructions on what I call “a Binder Shop Technique,” because it was my work they were selling. And that was the reason I had to finally develop a shop, because of the demand for my work and possibly even the need for it. I had quite a few artists—Bill Ward, and Ken Bald, and [Bob] Boyajian, and the rest of them, very accomplished artists—who, when they went on their own, never lost their own style. I always made sure I wouldn’t make machines out of them and gave them a very practical, very realistic way of approaching the Binder commercial technique without losing their own personality or their own talent and style because of working for me. And with all of the people that we had in the shop, I feel that a great many of them were later on, after I closed up and went on their own, quite successful in their own right. [Tape pauses.]

Finding Little Nemo Bob McCay, son of Little Nemo in Slumberland creator Winsor McCay, was the visual model for the hero of his father’s legendary Sunday comic strip, which began in 1905. At left, young Robert strikes a Nemoesque pose in a formal studio portrait in 1906. Alas, as a comic book artist in Binder’s shop in the early 1940s, he made what John Canemaker calls, in his monumental 1987 biography Winsor McCay: His Life and Art, “a misguided attempt to ‘modernize’ the Nemo strip…. [He] cut panels to reduce the size of the artwork and pasted new dialogue balloons over old ones to update the strip.” Partly as a result of that project, the torn partial-page at right is one of the few specimens of original art from the elder McCay’s masterpiece that still exists. Both photo and art in Canemaker’s tome came from the collection of Ray Winsor Moniz. A photo in the book of Bob McCay as an adult, unhappily, was too dark to reproduce well here. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

A Real-Life “Marvel Family”

61 tation and then see if you could nail it down?” So I got the story on the whole thing and made a few pages up, and went down to see this man.

So of course I had Pocahontas represented as a very beautiful girl with skin a little bit tawnier, or darker, than the average American girl. And he [the Pocahontas Coal executive] took a look at the drawings and he said, “Oh, they’re beautiful. But, does that look like Pocahontas?” And I said, “Frankly, I don’t know. I never met the gal, but I feel the reading public would take to her because she is beautiful and represents a good personality.” So he said, “Well, if we can make her look more like Pocahontas….” And I said, “Well, do you know what she looked like?” And he said, “No, but I’ll show you something”— and he took me into their board The Scarlet Litter meeting room—a large room Alas, we couldn’t locate a copy of the Pochontas book Binder and his shop produced for Fawcett and the Pocahontas Coal with a long table and a lot of Company. So A/E’s readers’ll have to be content with more comic book art credited to him by researchers—this time, a chairs in it. And on the walls pair of pages from America’s Greatest Comics #7 (Spring 1943), again as retouched and grey-toned by the nice folks at they had these old-time AC Comics, in this case for Golden-Age Men of Mystery #16 in 1999. In this rare Captain Marvel cameo in a “Mr. Scarlet and engravings and paintings and Pinky” adventure, a different artist from the shop may have drawn Cap. (Note that his lightning bolt symbol is portraits of the original backward!) Bulletman and Bulletgirl likewise pop up in this offbeat tale just long enough to grab the credit from its titular heroes. [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Mr. Scarlet, Pinky, & Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Pocahontas. So I looked them over and I said, “These are five different portraits of Pocahontas, so can you tell me which one is Pocahontas?” And he took a good, close look at them, and he said, “You know, by golly, they all look different!” I said, “Well, then, why not just Regarding my feeling about the comics media [sic], and what can be okay this and let’s go ahead with the book?” And he did, and I think we done with it, I don’t know if you recall that, at Street & Smith, we tried printed three issues. [Tape pauses.] to do Bible stories. I had our pastor in Englewood write up the first

“My Feeling About The Comics”

script on “The Prodigal Son,” which we ran, I think, as a one- or twopage thing, and which Street & Smith tried out for, I think, three or four publications. That didn’t work out, because we perhaps had them in the wrong place. But I’m a natural-born teacher, and I never realized how valuable it was till the Classic Comics came out. We felt that the visual illustrations for teaching and seeing, for combining text and illustration, were very important. I felt this could be a great thing in the public schools. We had one case in particular. I was concerned with the production of a Pocahontas book for the Pocahontas Coal Company [through Fawcett Publications]. I think each edition had 500,000 copies, and they were sold as an advertising medium. These comic books were printed up in full color and then given to their dealers . They had a plug in there where they could put in their own name, no particular location, and the fact that they were connected to the Pocahontas Coal Company. But the amazing part of it is that, as that comic book got around, we received requests from history teachers in the schools to forward these books to them, that they were interesting enough and well enough done that students would get something out of them. And there’s another humorous incident connected with this Pocahontas thing. [Fawcett] had made several presentations through the advertising man at the Pocahontas Coal Company, and they didn’t seem to get anywhere with them. So at that time, Ed Herron was there [as Fawcett editor, 1940-42], and [editorial director] Ralph Daigh called me in. They said, “We’d like to make that sale. Could you make a presen-

To me, the word “comics” has always been a misnomer, because so few of the so-called “comics” really had humor in them or were funny. I believe the comics are really a lighter art form. And art form they are, in the simple graphic representation with a minimum of line, a brevity of line, I’d almost say, to express an idea, or to convey a message. I read the comics today, and they hit the range of every subject from crime to war to love stories to out-and-out adventure to humor—even today, with the underground comix, to almost hardcore pornography. The word “comics” covers a multitude of sins. So I feel that, having tried every form of subject matter and every way of representing an idea, comics, essentially, should not be more than a central, direct, graphic way to represent an idea or to convey a message. [Tape pauses.] I will close this part on my philosophy, or feeling, about comics by quoting you, starting with: “It is the informality of comics, the experience of comics, that is the essence of them for the reader.” Now there, I think, you’ve just about summed up the whole conversation.

“Otto Is The Greatest Of Them All” You have a note on the bottom: “Who impressed you most in the comics field in addition to Otto, his writers, editors, and so forth?” I’m glad you added “in addition to Otto,” because Otto is the greatest of them all, in my book, and about as prolific and fine a writer as, not only in comics, but in the novels and other writings as well.

A 1973 Talk With Golden Age Artisans Jack & Otto Binder

But I remember one man who worked with us at Chesler’s, as well as for me when I had my own studio—a man by the name of Carl Formes, who in his early days was an opera singer. Although he never made the Metropolitan, he did travel all over the world with the best of the touring opera companies. The man had a terrific voice. I recall once we had a party in Engelwood for the staff, and it was a warm summer’s night. Quite a few of the boys had musical talent—Kurt Schaffenberger, particularly, who played the concertina, and Al Duca played the guitar. We had quite a musical evening. Then, Carl decided he would like to sing “Twenty Years Ago,” a song from one of his operas. But anyway, this warm summer’s night, the windows were all open and this man took off—and believe me when I tell you that man did not need a microphone! The next morning, the neighbors all came in and wanted to know where we got that opera record we were playing last night. And I told them, “That was a friend of ours who really exercised his lungs that night and let us all know he was there.” It was quite an experience. Of course, the neighbors saw the boys [the Binder shop artists] come and go at the studio during the day and during the week, and they were quite inquisitive about this. They were so thrilled to know some people who were connected or producing—well, some of them actually called it “fine artwork” and were quite impressed. They didn’t seem to have any aversion to the comic books at all, because I’ll bet all their children were also reading them. [Tape pauses.] Another great in the writing field, and the editorial field, as well, in my estimation, was Ed Herron. This man had a sensitivity towards artwork, and a fine judgment of good writing and good storytelling, and I believe encouraged more artists to give their best efforts than any man I’ve ever known. Ed himself did quite some writing on the side from time to time, even while he was editor—on the office staff of Fawcett Publications. Another fine writer, I’d agree, was Rod Reed. He had a very subtle and very sly sense of humor—a very easy person to get along with, a good conversationalist, and always entertaining. And he was a good softball player, incidentally, because when our teams got together—the Fawcett team and the Binder team—we had some pretty good times, drinking and playing and just generally socializing, which always made it a very interesting day or afternoon. There were times when I would sort-of judge my staff, and of course we were on a piecework basis. I had to have my

studio analyzed, and our studio was open from eight to eight. Our boys could work at any time that was most suitable to them. Some of them could do better work at night, some of them could do better work by day, so long as the studio was constantly open to them. But I used to watch them, and when some of them would get sort-of keyed up and start to feel a little bit tight and nervous, I would say, “Okay, boys, let’s knock off.” We got plenty of beer and tried to get the crew together for a softball game and spend the rest of the day and the evening really, really enjoying ourselves. We had a feeling of companionship and interest in what we were doing as a group. This brings back, even to this day, some pretty good memories to a great many of our people. [End of side one of tape; beginning of side two.]

“A Kind Of Discussion” JACK: On this side of the tape, Richard. Otto is with me, and I hope you’ll be overjoyed in hearing the both of us. OTTO: Hi, Dick. This is Otto, and I’m going to join Jack in this informal discussion here. Jack is first, about Ken Bald. JACK: Ken Bald came to me as what I termed an “unspoiled talent.” Most of my boys prior to the war were from Pratt Institute, and people had very little, if any, experience in the illustrating or comic field. I had direct contact with the Pratt Institute to send me the best available talent. Ken Bald became art director, and Wendell [Crowley] was pretty well adjusted to the running of the shop. Wendell and Ken Bald worked very closely. Ken had this terrific faculty of knowing exactly what I wanted with this Binder Commercial Shop technique. He was a good watchdog, and conveyed the idea to the staff of just what was required, and used the talent accordingly. Wendell, on the other hand, had a knack for picking out good story plots and understanding about writing plots and stories. Between the two of them, they worked out some pretty good scripts and the shop was running smoothly, which gave me time to do all my promoting and other things that were necessary. I think Otto might have something to say here about Wendell and his capabilities as he experienced them. OTTO: Wendell was a real good watchdog and monitor for Jack’s shop.

It Ain’t Over Till The Fat Man Sings! (Above:) When Otto sent Roy T. all those photos circa 1964, he taped a note to this undated pic: “Carl Formes, one-time famed opera star. In later years he wrote comics with publisher Harry Chesler from 1938 to about 1950 when he died. He wrote Capt. Marvel Jr., Captain Battle, others of that day. He and his wife (at ages 60 and 55) built their own home by themselves from 1945 to 1950. It was written up in Good Housekeeping as a ‘phenomenal feat,’ which it was. Carl was a fabulous character with enough power in his singing voice to shake the rafters, even over the age of 60. During the time my brother had an ‘art factory’ numbering as high as 24 artists, Carl Formes was one of his ‘staff writers’ for the innumerable orders for comic-books complete, all 64 pages, script plus art, as ordered by the comics publishers who were jumping on the bandwagon in those days.” This photo first appeared in Alter Ego [Vol. 1) #9 in 1965. (Left:) We dunno if Carl Formes wrote it, but (according to Jerry Bails’ online Who’s Who in 20th-Century American Comic Books) the former singer wrote scripts for Fawcett through the Binder shop at least circa 1941, and later perhaps directly for Fawcett—so could’ve scripted this “Capt. Marvel Jr.” entry from Master Comics #42 (Sept. 1943). So why’d we pick this tale? Because the Teutonic god “Woton” (though spelled “Wotan”) plays a major part in Richard Wagner’s Ring Cycle of operas. Art by the fabled Mac Raboy. [©2005 DC Comics.]

A Real-Life “Marvel Family” He had a wonderful sense of storytelling and what a story should be, and especially how it should be portrayed in the art—that is, working from the script to the art. He then checked the art in all its stages so that the story flowed smoothly and was told in picture form. It was really pioneering, because there was no set way of doing it. It was just a matter of everybody using his own ingenuity. And Wendell simply became a tremendous watchdog—that’s the word I like the best, there—because he kept checking panel-by-panel every time as the story went along, made sure that the story was told, and that’s the whole gimmick of comics right there. JACK: I think we should mention Clem Weisbecker. [NOTE: At this point we come to a major difficulty with the somewhat unclear 1973 audio tape. Richard Kyle and Roy Thomas both believe that the name Jack Binder gives at this point is that of artist Clem Weisbecker, but they cannot be 100% positive. If any the following refers to someone else, or even back to Ken Bald, our apologies… and we invite readers’ contributions.]

63 abandoned, disbanded—then Fawcett took Clem over as an artist and he worked for them, I guess, until the day he died. But would you ever go to his studio in Greenwich Village? Do you remember that? And how he had his work cluttered all over it?

The Gentle Giant Above is another of Otto’s photos, showing his brother with Wendell Crowley, the man who Jack said became “pretty well adjusted to the running of the shop.” Otto’s note: “At left… is Wendell Crowley, chief editor of all Marvel comics at Fawcett from 1943 to 1953. He is now half-owner of a lumber company. At right are my brother Jack and his two sons, circa 1946.” A personal note from Roy: “The deep-voiced, alarmingly tall Crowley was the first comics pro I ever met—when he passed through St. Louis on lumber company business in spring of 1965, at a time when I was eagerly looking forward to going to work that summer for National/DC. I was then a high school English teacher, so naturally I called in sick, and the two of us had lunch at Rinaldi’s, my favorite pizza place. I can still taste it! Wendell told me I was an ‘old man’ getting into the comics biz at 24. ‘We were all kids,’ he said.” [Restored art ©2005 AC Comics; Bulletman & Bulletgirl TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

OTTO: Jim Steranko has quite a bit on Clem. He was a genius, hardly any question about that. He was one of the fastest artists in the comics, and one of the best. He was just superb. You’d never suspect it if you ever met him. He looked like a thug, and he talked like a thug. But he had a tremendous artist’s soul in him, and he really did a good job. And of course, this goes beyond Jack’s shop, into Fawcett and all that. Did he work for your shop for a while?

JACK: He was married at that time. And of course, he couldn’t stand the buying public, because they’d come in and they wouldn’t be looking at the artwork or appreciate the work he had done—they just wanted a picture, “20 by 38 to cover a hole in the wall,” as he put it. And he said, “The hell with the bastards,” and he’d kick them out of the house. Of course, his wife was interested in making sales so they could live and have a bed and eat. So she made a point to show the potential buyers when Clem wasn’t there, and eventually sold quite a bit of his work. OTTO: She managed some sidewalk shows, too, figuring there was probably a buyer around the corner. [chuckles] He didn’t have anything to do with all that.

JACK: He liked our group, and Wendell particularly, and Bill Ward and so on, and we always got along well. We could talk shop, if nothing else. But he was also a great music lover and he delighted in his art. When you’d go into his studio, he’d be playing the finest records. Pete Riss was another one that had a great interest in classical music. In fact, Pete played the piano, and he had such a long reach that he could reach an octave without any problem at all.

JACK: Of course. He was one of my lead layout men, who came in three days and produced enough work to keep the staff going for three weeks. OTTO: Then he did so much good work for Jack that after Jack’s shop was abandoned—not

OTTO: Yeah. Here’s a slight anecdote, just for your own edification. Pete Riss had his radio up there and he’d always be tuning in KXR with the classical music. And the rest of the boys would get tired of it and say, “For Christ’s sake, Pete—shut it off. Turn on some rock and roll”—or whatever it was in the old days. Swing, I guess. And I think sometimes

Lady Of Spain, I Implore You! Artist Kurt Schaffenberger (left) and writer Otto Binder (right) both played the accordion or concertina or something very much like them at Fawcett-gang gettogethers, as per these photos sent by Otto to Ye Editor. His note attached to the one at left said it showed “Kurt Schaffenberger (another accordionist) on left, his wife [Dorothy] on right. That’s C.C. Beck looking serious in the middle.” The note on the photo of Otto indicated it was taken c. 1945, with “one of my many nephews.” Another party photo in Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #4, showed Otto playing the accordion, and “Captain Marvel” artist C.C. Beck on the guitar—and Beck once drew a cartoon of editor Wendell Crowley arriving at Otto and Ione Binder’s home for a party carrying his own accordion. All they needed now was a pair of bagpipes! Between the photos is the cover for the English edition of The Marvel Family #86, which repeats the Schaffenberger cover of the U.S. comic (cover-dated Aug. 1953). Ye Editor picked up this copy in Australia or New Zealand in 2001. [©2005 DC Comics.]

A 1973 Talk With Golden Age Artisans Jack & Otto Binder At Our Beck And Call Approaching at left, on the run, are two of A/E’s “maskots,” Alter and Captain Ego, as drawn by Australia’s Shane Foley in the C.C. Beck style. Even more in the Beck style, of course, is the panel they’re running toward—from Chapter VIII of the “Monster Society of Evil” serial in Captain Marvel Adventures #29 (Nov. 1943), although other artists in Beck’s own little shop may have contributed to it, as well. Remind us, one day soon, to showcase the entire storyline of that 25-chapter epic for you! [Alter & Capt. Ego art ©2005 Shane Foley; Alter & Capt. Ego TM & ©2005 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly; Capt. Marvel art ©2005 DC Comics.]

[pulp writer, later film/TV writer and novelist] Frank Gruber, who introduced you [Jack] to comic book work. JACK: [addressing Kyle] Well, if you’re thinking in terms of just how did we happen to develop this comic business as it is, I mentioned [before] that we were like the early movie industry, the Charlie Chaplins and so on. We never knew what the hell was going around, but the job had to be done. The short one- and two-reelers [early films], were classics in the sense that the original vitality and enthusiasm, and I call it “profound ignorance,” that went into them made them possible as being classical works. It’s both nostalgia and history. OTTO: [to Jack] Maybe you could tell how you had to experiment with brushes and ink, penwork and all that…. JACK: No, no, no, no, no. These take years to learn. I learned all these things in school. they’d forcibly turn it off [chuckles] or turn it to a different station, but Pete was content to keep on working with the classical music. JACK: In those days, I spent very little time in the studio. We had a large house, and of course I had Bob McCay and that music in the house, away from the rest of the staff. We had quite a large place, and we had a lot of gardening to do, and I love gardening. That’s my hobby, and I would walk around, stripped to just my pants on and an undershirt. And I never appeared to be a man who was running a staff of 38 artists in that little Englewood studio. So I told Bill Ward and some of the boys that I needed someone to take over some of my duties, because I had so many other things to do. And Bill Ward mentioned the fact that a friend of his, Wendell Crowley, was looking for a job. He had just come in—I think he was at Oklahoma University, wasn’t he? OTTO: There was a man Jerry [de Fuccio] knew very well, because he worked for Mad later—John Putnam. Putnam and Ward and Wendell were friends. Wendell told me once that it was John Putnam who had heard about your shop and he sent Wendell—or Bill Ward—there first, I think.

“I Learned All These Things In School” JACK: Well, anyway, Wendell did come down. I was there with Bob McCay. Wendell walked in and all I saw was this giant coming towards me, and he said, “Hello,” in his real low voice, and I just look up. And he didn’t introduce himself, so I said, “What do you want?” And he said, “Well, I came to get a job.” And I said, “Well, we have jobs open. What are you looking for? By the way, what’s your name?” He said, “Wendell Crowley.” So I took out my workshop records, which at that time were more or less in the early stages of smoothing out, and I said, “Here are all the records, here are the deadlines and the schedules for next week’s work. The job is yours. You go out there and work it out and don’t bother me unless you get stuck.” Wendell didn’t say a word, just picked up the papers, looked at them, and went out to the studio, and there he was from there on. We all worked together, Ken Bald and Wendell and myself. OTTO: What I missed in Steranko’s History is the thing that I believe Jerry is trying to bring out: the sense of “discovery and rediscovery.” We should go into that as much as we can. Of course, then he mentions

OTTO: I know, but your time in comics, how did you judge that? JACK: Well, simply, first you drew with a pen line. There are certain limitations to how bold a stroke you can make with a pen. You really needed solid blacks, then you had to have a brush. Well, I knew all about brushes. OTTO: You eventually did mostly brushwork. JACK: Oh, yes, we did the finest lines with brush. We didn’t use any new technique, but we refined that to a great extent. We finally used a Winsor-Newton, a number three brush. This is all that we ever used after that. Back in New York, there’s a guy who had the finest WinsorNewtons. And of course our boys were so adept at that that they finally did everything with a brush, and so did I. That’s why now, when we’re doing this after 40 years, I had to resort to the pen, because I had lost that touch of stroking with a fine brush and getting those fine hair lines and gradually evolving a larger and larger line to get graduated tones.

“I Hired And Fired 200 Artists” OTTO: I never thought about this before, but were there artists who tried in your shop and failed? JACK: Yes, in the sense that they didn’t quite take it seriously enough. They were costing me money, and therefore I had to let them know that this is a part of the practical end. And others, again, just—well, they tried, but they couldn’t do it. They were enthusiastic enough, but just didn’t have the talent. OTTO: There were some who couldn’t adapt. JACK: I hired and fired 200 artists. This is a great number of people I went through to finally evolve the staff for 40, who could then develop into what you might call professional comics illustrators. Each one represented an investment to me of fifteen hundred dollars. After I saw their portfolio, I had each man bring in samples of work he had done as a student. From that, I made a judgment, and it was very seldom that the Pratt Institute boys missed [i.e., failed to measure up]. [Often], when I hired someone who was from another school, for some

A Real-Life “Marvel Family” reason, they weren’t quite up to date. But I could judge from that whether to take a week or two weeks or three weeks. I could go as long as a month before I would say to them, “Well, you can’t do this.” If he showed talent as, say, a good background man—and that was often where they started—some guy might say, “Well, I don’t like to draw horses, I like to draw trains.” Some of the older men were particular. I said, “Okay, fine. Then you can do background detail,” because some men did only faces on the hero of the story. And some men completed the whole thing; some were good at scenery. Others were good on mechanical drawing where we needed airplanes, and motorists, and things of that sort. OTTO: Comics must have been the [art medium] to begin to ever use more than one artist per picture, so to speak. JACK: No, no, no. In the fine arts, they had a guild. Michelangelo didn’t draw all his own work. In a sense, this is what gave me the idea that a good director or leader, one who feels he knows what he wants, can get it out of someone else. OTTO: That is really an orchestra. You had to orchestrate forty different artists, or whatever, at one time. JACK: In a sense, yeah. To us, the comics were just as serious a production as any Michelangelo Sistine ceiling painting. This was our bread and butter and our life.

“How Chesler’s Shop Was Run” JACK: This recording is being made in an atrium house, the smallest room in the house, which used to be my favorite room to bed down. On the wall here are a couple of dirty shirts which need laundering, which will be laundered tomorrow. And there are several paintings here of things that I did 20, 30, some of them 40 years ago, and others of more recent date. Some of them go back all the way to [New] Jersey. That one [evidently pointing one out to Otto] was in’42, I think. That huntsman [painting] there was done when I came up here. The guy on the watch is freezing to death and hoping a dealer will come by. And let’s expose a drawing here that shows worlds in collision, which is just one of those things that an artist does and then wonders if he’ll ever do it again or why he did it in the first place. There are a couple of local scenes up here. The wallpaper on this wall, I’m leaving it on because it’s antique. It must be at least 60 years old. The house itself dates back 150 years. It’s all made out of hand-hewn beams. The studs in this house are six-by-sixes with a 16” center here. OTTO: This is informal, so we’ll just rattle on, Dick. And if you can’t stand it, just turn it off. [chuckles] We haven’t anything really big and exciting to say, because Jack covered it all on the other side. But we’re

OTTO: Did you ever get confused and say to heck with the whole thing? JACK: Oh, yes. Right now, I’m completely confused! [Otto laughs.] I want to tell this little story, but I keep getting into the humorous end of it. There was some guy, a complete neophyte to script-writing, who had sent in a script, and—do you know what a description panel is? He had that littered with words. Every description panel had enough detail in one panel, with eight panels on a page, to fill the Sistine Chapel, you know? [chuckles] And the dialogue was just as long. I think Wendell and Ken had a heck of a time with that little story. They finally got it down to the proper amount of dialogue and of background material. But in the last panel, the story was to be continued. His description was this: “Show the hero and the heroine at the beach. The breakers are coming in, and way off in the distance, there are 10,000 natives coming at them with spears.” And the hero is giving a long speech to the heroine about how this is the end, goodbye, “We’re between the Devil and the deep blue sea,” and so on. So Ken and Wendell sat there and they finally called me and they said, “Now what the heck can we do with this final panel? We can’t possibly do anything else.” OTTO: [joking] What’s wrong with that panel? Can’t you artists figure out how to do it? JACK: [chuckles] Yeah, that’s right. Anyway, finally, I said, “Look, let’s solve it this way: just show a close-up of the hero pointing at the reader out of the panel, saying, “Look at these 10,000 natives coming at us. What are we going to do?” And that was it! [laughs] OTTO: Well, that would be a very significant point, actually. The comics had to invent—this is your “discovery and rediscovery” business here—shortcuts or ways of getting across a story without infinite amounts of work or crowding of panels. And so this was one of those trick devices. There are probably other kinds of shortcuts. I can’t think of any offhand, but that reminds me that Beck always said—that “the less words, the better.” He didn’t want any descriptions at all. He said he always wanted it like, “Captain Marvel flies through the sky and swoops down and socks gunman.” That’s all, nothing else. Other artists wanted more description all the time. They wanted the writer to tell them exactly what to put down. Well, that’s ridiculous. A writer, as much as he tries to visualize, can’t really do that.

“Binder”—It Rhymes With “Tinder” Just as his comics shop did, John R. (Jack) Binder drew for other companies besides Fawcett—as witness this splash from the origin story for “The Destroyer” in Mystic Comics #6 (Oct. 1941). Both Jack and writer Stan Lee signed the splash panel. The Destroyer, who appeared in two stories in that issue and on the cover, was the most popular super-hero co-created by Stan Lee prior to 1961. Thanks to Warren Reece for the color photocopy. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

A 1973 Talk With Golden Age Artisans Jack & Otto Binder thing that we did [differently from newspaper strip artists?], we also did our own color separation for the engraver. And we sent the things finished. OTTO: You picked out your own colors. JACK: Yeah. They were not colored; the colors are separated by values. You’re running on a screen scale from white to black, and in between are those percentages. It was very simple, really. We did the color separations for quite some time for Harold Foster for Prince Valiant. And that guy was really fussy. He was really a pest. OTTO: I remember hearing that. When did Chesler’s shop start, again? JACK: I don’t remember, but as far as I’m concerned, he’s one of the world’s greatest visionaries. That man had more ideas! He had no artistic talent of his own, but he had such an appreciation of talent that I know for a fact that he would spend his last penny if he found out that some artist was in distress or needed money. He would give them any kind of excuse because he knew the pride that most artists had. He would find any excuse or reason to say, “Well, I want you to do this work for me. I’ve got to have it tomorrow. I’ll pay you so much for it,” just to keep the guy alive. “I know he’s down.” Also, although he gave the impression of being what you might call a carnival barker, nevertheless, behind it all, there was a very keen sense of appreciation, and using good judgment, and knowing that your job is as near great as could be done by artists. OTTO: I think to this day, in this place on 23rd Street—is it 23rd ?— he’s got hundreds or thousands of paintings. He has hundreds of Shadows [Shadow pulp covers?]. JACK: James Montgomery Flagg — OTTO: His collection goes way back to original Little Nemos and— who are all those early artists? They go way back.

Giving Credit Where Credit Is Due As reported in an earlier issue, for a brief time in the mid-’40s Fawcett printed art credits at times, on the bottom of the splash pages of stories. This one, “drawn by Jack Binder,” is from Master Comics #46 (Jan. 1944). [©2005 DC Comics.]

just rambling on in case we hit a few things that might interest you one way or another.

JACK: Yeah, there’s Foxy Grandpa. We tried to revive Foxy Grandpa, incidentally. I have only a couple of copies of that. Charlie Biro did the work. It was for animation. His animation technique was perfect. A perfect modern way to present Foxy Grandpa. But, like with [the revival of] Nemo, the public just never took to it. They never take to the past.

JACK: I don’t know if this would embarrass Manny [Manly Wade] Wellman. Do you remember that building business with Carl Formes and Manny Wellman down at the [Harry “A”] Chesler Shop?

[At this point, there is a basically unintelligible exchange between Otto and Jack concerning an artist with a “funny name” that Otto can’t quite remember, but who, he says, worked with him for a while on the “Claw” feature in Silver Streak.]

OTTO: Well, of course I remember. Anyway, just to give you an idea how Chesler’s shop was run—I mean, they had dueling matches! [laughs]

“I Think We’re Getting Tired”

JACK: Now, we were on the 23rd floor on a Third Street studio, and, let’s see, past Seventh Avenue, and we had two floors. We had the editorial section on one floor and the art department on the other. So Chesler would go out on a call or something, and the boys could tell when Chesler left, and they knew I was upstairs, so they’d start raising hell downstairs. The moment I went downstairs to find out if they were working or not, some of the guys upstairs would take off. We had one heck of a time keeping that staff working. [chuckles] And I’ll tell you, I got a pair of the most powerful legs in the world from running up and down, up and down the stairs between floors. I could have taken the elevator, but that was too slow. I had to run up the stairs. OTTO: Did you explain about Chesler’s part in this? Of course, he was a pioneer. First he put out strips, like everybody did, like Mutt and Jeff and all that? JACK: Well, no, he started off from scratch, as near as I recall. The only

JACK: At one point, I was approached by the Rhode Island Lithograph Company to do religious comics. They were really after me, because I had to make up little Sunday school pamphlets of the various parts of the life of Christ, the New Testament as well as the Old Testament. Another time, Ken Bald came to me and said the dean at Pratt Institute wanted me to institute a comics course. But I turned that down, because I had a place in New Paltz [town in New York] where I went for those three summers. And those professors said, “You sure missed the boat that time,” because I could have had a fellowship and New Paltz with this record of mine, teaching at Pratt Institute. [Next comes a short diversion in which Otto asks Jack if he ever met Bill Gaines’ father, though he can’t seem to remember M.C. Gaines’ full name or initials.] JACK: Another time, a man—I think his name was Joseph Binder; he came from the same area in Austria, was born there—made the Illustrators Club. He got the prize for the best advertising material for

A Real-Life “Marvel Family”

The Mary Marvel Marching Society (Above:) The Binder brothers and wives, in one of Otto’s photos. (Left to right:) Ione & Otto Binder, Olga & Jack Binder, circa 1950. (Right:) We’ll end, as we began, with art by Jack of Mary Marvel, the character he’s most remembered for drawing. This story, quite possibly written by Otto (whose records estimated that he’d scripted 152 “Mary Marvel” solo tales over the years, beginning with her origin), appeared in The Marvel Family #17. (Nov. 1947). [©2005 DC Comics.]

the year. And the day that was announced in the New York papers, my phone was ringing. Everybody was congratulating me because he had just signed it “J. Binder.” So they’re calling me up and making me all kinds of propositions, you know. Here I was, sitting there in the limelight: can I or will I do this? Well, I honestly had to admit that, although there was a “J. Binder,” it was not Jack Binder, it was Joseph Binder. OTTO: [chuckles] That’s funny, yeah. JACK: I think we’re getting tired. Well, Richard, I hope this has all helped you. I certainly appreciated having Otto with me for this side,

which sort-of filled in the void. And of course, as you know, just like two old men, we just keep on talking and talking and talking. So goodbye and good luck on your book. OTTO: Yes. [END NOTE: We had hoped to include checklists on Jack and Otto Binder, but those will have to wait for a future issue—hopefully accompanying a piece Hames Ware is writing about the Binder shop, utilizing information he and Jerry Bails prepared for the Who’s Who in 20th-Century American Comic Books.]

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“The Plot Against Christmas” By John G. Pierce Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck [This article represents the first in a series of Fawcett Christmas story reviews. These articles will appear in every December issue of FCA. —PCH.]

“I

t is good to be children sometimes, And never better than at Christmas, When its mighty Founder was a child himself.” — Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol

When Charles Dickens penned his classic short novel (or long short story) A Christmas Carol in 1843, he could scarcely have imagined the status it would achieve. Certainly, he could not have imagined that its theme (and even its very plot) would be utilized by other writers, in numerous homages and outright imitations. And it would have been impossible for him to foresee the rise, many years hence, of a new type of literature called the comic book, whose writers would also dip into the Dickensian well time and again. Some of these efforts have been patently obvious, such as a 1960s “Teen Titans” tale in which the Titans tackled a foe named Scrounge, and in the process even realized that they were living out the Dickens novel! But a much earlier—and much less overt—effort appeared in Captain Marvel Adventures #42 (Jan. 1945) in a story called “Captain Marvel and the Plot against Christmas.” As this story opens, boy newscaster Billy Batson is seated at his desk, rejoicing over the many Christmas cards he and Captain Marvel have received, but lamenting that he is an orphan, and wishing he could share the holiday with more than just friends. (Of course, it seems Billy is forgetting his twin sister Mary Batson Bromfield, a.k.a. Mary Marvel, but that’s okay. Although Fawcett editors and writers used a fair amount of continuity uncommon for the day in their stories, they were not hamstrung by it; quite a contrast to today’s stories, which are heavily continuity-driven, and which virtually require a reader not only to have read many previous issues of the magazine, but all the rest of the line’s output, as well.)

company’s loading dock, and in his anger pushes his brother Happy toward the sleigh. Happy is about to fall into the whirling propeller blades, when Billy says “Shazam!” and Captain Marvel prevents disaster. “You almost killed your own brother, Gouge!” Cap remonstrates, but Gouge seems unconcerned, and issues orders for the toys to be returned to the warehouse. Captain Marvel, undeterred, tells the remaining brothers to go on home and celebrate Christmas Eve as they were planning to. He has a plan. A little later, Billy announces over the radio about a “plot against Christmas,” but assures listeners that Captain Marvel intends to iron out the problems with Gouge Smith. Gouge, listening to the broadcast, thinks Billy “must be out of his mind!” Then, however, Captain Marvel shows up at Gouge’s door. His own and Gouge’s visible breath shows him that “Your house is almost as cold as your heart, Gouge.” “I like it that way,” responds Gouge. “Will you get out—or will I have to have you thrown out!” (One has to wonder just how Gouge would accomplish that.) Cap, however, replies, “I’ll go, but you’re coming with me. Here, put this coat on.” So, Captain Marvel, ignoring Gouge’s protestations, flies him to the home of brother Jolly, who welcomes them both. The children are

Billy’s thoughts about how other orphans might feel are interrupted by his boss, Sterling Morris, who sends Billy on an assignment. It seems that toy-making brothers, Happy and Jolly Smith, are planning to give away toys to the orphans at Creedmore Orphanage. At the Smith Toy Company, Billy interviews the two brothers, who have a motor-driven sleigh ready to take toys to the orphanage on Christmas Day. They don’t want their older brother, Gouge, to become aware of their plan, but somehow he finds out. (The Smith brothers, of course, in Captain Marvel tradition, have names befitting their personalities and/or roles in the story. If this seems unrealistic, remember that the same is true in the Bible, as well as in the works of J.R.R. Tolkien … hardly bad company to be in!) Gouge Smith is furious, so he hurries over to the

“The Plot Against Christmas”

Later that night, however, Gouge is—no, not visited by any ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future—but he is haunted by dreams. Finally, unable to sleep, he awakens and calls Billy. “Tell Captain Marvel I give in. I’ll do anything he says to help those poor orphans.” “Fine, Gouge,” responds Billy. “That’s the real Christmas spirit.” And so, later on, the orphans are awakened by the sound of the arriving sleigh, pulled by Captain Marvel, with Gouge dressed as Santa Claus. Gouge makes amends for his former attitude not only by providing toys but also by inviting the orphans to his house for dinner. The story ends on Christmas afternoon, with all the participants wishing everyone “A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.” Did Gouge’s reform happen too quickly? Perhaps, but in real life, sometimes people do undergo changes—conversions, if you will—in rather remarkable fashion. So perhaps Gouge’s change is not so unrealistic as it may seem at first glance. And again, in the Bible, dreams are sometimes the catalyst for a change of course in the waking hours, most notably, of course, in the Christmas story itself.

having fun, and even invite our hero to place the star at the top of the Christmas tree. Gouge, however, is unimpressed, so Cap takes him on Happy Smith’s home. There, Captain Marvel notes that they, too, have a Christmas tree, but, as Happy’s wife points out, “only a small one this year. Our only son is in the South Pacific this year. This is his first Christmas away from home.” Gouge suggests that they let Captain Marvel fly down and bring him home for Christmas. “Oh, no,” responds his sister-in-law. “That would be unfair to the other boys. We wouldn’t be happy if our son were favored over them.”

The story is a gently uplifting one, demonstrating the value of compassion and generosity. As on so many occasions, though Captain Marvel is possessed of great power, he used his abilities sparingly. All too often, it seems, super-heroes follow the dictum of “Might makes right,” whereas Cap would probably have been more in agreement with King Arthur in Lerner and Lowe’s Camelot that “Might serves right.” Captain Marvel is willing to fail, rather than to force Gouge to comply. In the end, Gouge learns his lesson, and, we may presume, goes on his way a changed person, something that a mere application of force could not have provided. No exotic villains … no world-beating menace … no, just a low-key, holiday-themed story. But yet it is one more demonstration of why some of us believe that Captain Marvel was the greatest comic book character of them all.

“You see, Gouge,” states the Captain, “some people are above being selfish.” “Bah, I try to be helpful and what do I get?” Gouge says. “I’m leaving.” Which he does, but only because Captain Marvel flies him off for one more stop. The most Gouge can do is protest that “You’ll hear from my lawyer about this, you bully!” The final leg of the journey is the Creedmore Orphanage, where Captain Marvel and Gouge, from an outside window, observe the boys asleep, their stockings empty—and they will remain empty because of Gouge’s selfishness. Gouge, however, is still unmoved. At this point, Cap draws back his fist, but stops himself, thinking, “No, that wouldn’t help. I guess I’ve failed.” Though he could easily have dominated everything and everyone through sheer physical force, that was not Captain Marvel’s way. It is a lesson many modern-day super-heroes (who specialize in throwing punches and profanity at the villains and more often than not at each other) could learn. Captain Marvel plays the role not of Crusader—forcing change at the point of a sword, or in this case, a fist—but instead is the Evangelist, showing the other the way, and gently inviting change, even when it doesn’t come.

“Captain, With Your Clothes So Bright, Won’t You Guide My Sleigh Tonight?” A converted Gouge Smith races to the orphanage, dressed as Santa Claus… with Captain Marvel pulling the sleigh. Incidentally, this issue would have gone on sale in late 1944, just as a new recording by singer Bing Crosby from the movie Holiday Inn was establishing a place for itself in the nation’s heart. Its name: “White Christmas.” [© 2005 DC Comics.]

Super-Hero Sidekick Joanna Pang of “ISIS”

by P.C. Hamerlinck

oanna Pang once solved problems with a high school teacher (who also happened to be a powerful, white-skirted super-hero), but throughout her career the actress/dancer has accomplished her own fair share of amazing feats.

Raised in the California bay area, life as a performer began very early for Pang. She literally grew up at the San Francisco Ballet School, where her mother taught for many years. By the time she was five years old, Pang had landed her first professional dancing job. At 12, she acted in her first movie (an Ann Margaret film, Once a Thief). She soon pursued musical theatre with her brother Joey. With dancing in their blood, the two talented siblings became regulars as a ballroom dance team on a daily San Francisco TV program, The Ted Randal Show (later becoming Dick Stewart’s Dance Party). “It was similar to American Bandstand,” Pang said. “One time we won a dance contest that the show held, and our prize was a TV set, which was really a big deal!” As a result of their contest victory, The Lawrence Welk Show contacted the Pang kids and invited them to perform live during one of Welk’s Bay area concerts. What Welk hadn’t realized was that Pang and her brother were on TV every single day in the Bay area, causing a tremendous reaction from the hometown crowd during their performance at the concert. Welk was so impressed by the Pangs that he flew them down to Los Angeles to appear twice on his television show... until Welk deemed the duo “too young” to be regulars on the show. “Our family was excited when we appeared on Welk’s show,” Pang said, “especially since it was my grandmother’s favorite TV program.”

group, but was soon changed to a high school setting with problematic students and situations providing the show’s lesson-oriented, plot-driven drama. “They never really defined my character,” Pang said of the Cindy Lee role. “I wasn’t sure whether I was supposed to be just a student, or a teacher’s aide, or, most likely, just one of those overly-enthusiastic students who gets involved in everything and always wants to help the teacher. It was never clear because some episodes I called the teacher Andrea Thomas by her first name, then other episodes I’d call her ‘Miss Thomas.’ But, with Saturday morning TV shows, you shoot very fast and don’t have a lot of discussion about the characters ... so you sort-of make up your character’s own background and history.” Isis’ simple, formulaic scripts didn’t bother Pang. “At the time I was doing Isis, I was thrilled to be doing a national TV show,” she said. “I enjoyed working on Isis, loved my part, and didn’t really delve into the writing of the scripts, nor did I want to try to change things. I think every actor who does a TV series thinks that it can always be better, but I just tried to do the best job I could with the script.” The part of Cindy Lee wasn’t much of a stretch for Pang. “I think the character was very much like me,” she said. “Cindy was positive, upbeat ... she always wanted to help. Sometimes she would do something with good intentions but it would somehow end up causing some kind of trouble, and then Isis would have to fly in and rescue her or her friends. But, basically, I am pretty much like that person, so it was easy for me to play the part.”

Relocating to New York City and aspiring to break into theatre, Pang’s path instead led to more TV gigs, including dozens of commercials. She became a regular on the CBS children’s program The Patchwork Family, and appeared in and narrated a children’s Chinese opera for CBS Festival of the Lively Arts. Her work for CBS caught the attention of an executive in charge of the network’s children’s programming. “He told me there was a new Saturday morning series starting out in Los Angeles,” Pang said, “and asked if I’d be interested in flying out there for an audition. Since I’d already done a lot of children’s television, I jumped at the opportunity. Two days later I was on a plane to L.A.” On the very same day of her audition for Isis at Filmation Studios, Joanna Pang landed the part of Cindy Lee. Joanna Cameron (Isis/Andrea Thomas) and Brian Cutler (Rick Mason) had already been cast for their parts and weren’t present during Pang’s audition; the show was already in pre-production. “Once I was cast, we started shooting a few weeks later,” Pang said. “In the interim I flew back to New York, packed up my things, and headed back to California for Isis. It all happened pretty fast.” A spin-off from the successful Shazam! liveaction series, the original concept for Isis involved detective-based storylines and a youth crime-solving

Super-hero Sidekick Even though many of her scenes on Isis were with Joanna Cameron, Pang didn’t really get to know the actress who portrayed the leading role. “A lot of us didn’t get to know Joanna that well,” Pang said. “She didn’t have a lot of free time on the set because either she was portraying Andrea or she was in makeup and wardrobe getting ready to change and become Isis. However, I did become friends with a girl named Jill who was the stand-in for Isis. My best friend from the series was Brian Cutler, who was like a big brother to me. Brian and his wife were just great, and I loved spending time with them and their two children. The entire crew was good to work with, particularly two of our directors: Arthur Nadel and Hollingsworth Morse, a tall, wise old whitehaired man who always wore a cowboy hat.” Both men also directed several later episodes of Shazam!

71 the second season of Shazam!). To this day, Pang herself still doesn’t know the reasons why she wasn’t asked to return for Isis’ second season. “Shortly after filming the first season, I flew back to New York,” she said. “When time came around to get ready to do the second season, I hadn’t heard from anybody so I called my agent, who also didn’t know what was going on, but said he would look into it. It took him several days to get any answers, but when he finally called back he said that they weren’t going to use me for the second season and that no one really gave him any reasons why. Maybe he got the standard ‘going in a different direction’ answer. I had been very happy on Isis and the show had gotten very good ratings. I don’t really know what happened.”

Pang returned to television work in New York City: more commercials … from Lee Jeans to Dr. Pepper, as well as performing a skit with Gilda Radner on NBC’s Saturday Night Live. She also found time to do a few films, including Don’t Miss the Boat, the Showtime network’s first original movie. She then began to go out on tour with several theatre productions, Pang made occasional personal Isis In A Crisis including South Pacific, The appearances during the height of Joanna Pang’s character Cindy Lee receives help from Captain Marvel and King and I, and Sayonara. Isis’ popularity. One event in Isis, on this page from Shazam! #25 (Sept-Oct. 1976). Art by Dick Giordano. particular was the Cherry While she was doing a [©2005 DC Comics.] Blossom Festival held in Medford, production of South Pacific in Oregon, which she still fondly Virginia, politicians from remembers: “The people in Medford had called CBS and asked if I could Washington, D.C., came to see the show, and afterwards invited intercome up and be the grand marshal of their festival’s parade. It sounded ested cast members—including Pang—to a private tour of the White like a lot of fun, so I told them I would be there. My mother accomHouse. “We arrived on a Saturday morning,” she recalled, “and they panied me when I flew up there. As we landed I was looking out the first showed us the press room, and Isis happened to be playing on the window and I turned to my mother and said, ‘Look at all that... there’s a TV inside the room! I thought that was pretty funny. It was two years red carpet, there’s a band, there’s hundreds of people out there ... I after I had done Isis, and there it was playing at the White House on wonder who’s on our plane?’ And my mother said, ‘I think that’s for Saturday morning!” YOU!’ I just hadn’t put it all together, but it was indeed all for me! Pang toured around the world with an Asian dance company, Besides my being the grand marshal at the parade, they took me over to performing Chinese, Japanese, and modern dance. When her son was in a fair where many people had come to see me and we conducted an pre-school, she began to develop an arts in education program to teach hour-long Q & A session. That was a lot of fun. They also took me over dance at schools, utilizing her background in the field and knowledge to a nursing home where the people always watched the show. I walked she gained from touring different countries. Today she has her own around, shook hands, and talked to the elderly people who lived there. company, facilitating multi-cultural dance residencies throughout New We had a wonderful time.” York and New Jersey. “I work for different organizations that place me After the first season of Isis, Pang’s character was abruptly written at locations from 4 to 10 weeks and I teach different dance classes from around the world,” she said. “At the end of each residency a production out of the series. Why? Filmation may have opted to revive and merge in is put together for the community, with the children performing the the show’s original “youth crime-solving group” concept with new dances I taught them. I also do assembly programs at the schools. I love actors, which became apparent in episodes from the show’s second working with kids.” season ... or perhaps it was simply Filmation’s habit of replacing established cast members on proven hit shows, with the belief that children When out and about with her husband, Pang is still occasionally wouldn’t know the difference or even care (as in the case of Jackson recognized from her role in Isis. And her mother keeps a picture from Bostwick being replaced as Captain Marvel by John Davey shortly into It was common for the Isis crew to frequently run into the Shazam! crew. “We had a couple of shows that crossed-over with Shazam!” Pang remembered, “and both shows were always working in the studio at the same time, so we got to know the people from Shazam! quite well.”

Joanna Pang of Isis

her daughter’s Isis days up in her California dance studio: “People look at the picture and say, ‘Isn’t that ... isn’t that ... Cindy Lee from Isis?! Do you know her?” And my mother replies, “That’s my daughter!” Are programs like Shazam! and Isis quaint and outdated, or could they still fill the seemingly empty void present on today’s Saturday morning television? “I think both shows are timeless, and they would definitively work again,” Pang believes. “I’ve always preferred the live-action shows over the cartoons. Seeing someone live—especially a super-hero who does good things—is something everybody wants to see, and not just on Saturday mornings. There will always be an Recent photo of Joanna Pang Atkins with husband audience for super-heroes. I saw the SpiderRichard. With special thanks to Richard Atkins and Man movies and really enjoyed them. I think Andy McKinney. there would still be a positive response to Isis again. I remember when Shazam! first aired and became so popular during its first season that Filmation decided that they wanted to do another show that featured a heroine to get girls excited about a superhero, just as boys were excited about Captain Marvel.” Pang still has some memorabilia from the show: “I have one of the Isis comic books; I know there were others, but I’ve never seen them. I have some old BETA tapes of the show that my son might have watched when he was 7 or 8. When I found out there was still an interest in the show, my husband and I surfed the Internet and found a poll asking who was your favorite Isis sidekick. I received the most votes, and somebody posted a comment saying that he really liked Isis, ‘but doesn’t everyone really remember the curvaceous Asian babe Cindy Lee?’ My husband

and I were laughing about it and I showed it to my son, who said, ‘Uh, that’s more than I needed to read about my mother!’ I just loved doing the show. It was great fun, and I think it’s nice that people are still interested in it. Isis was from a simpler time, with a nice story, a problem solved, and a message learned.” Pang continues teaching and performing, but over the years has battled something far bigger than anything Isis ever had to encounter. She was diagnosed with breast cancer on two separate occasions ... and beat it both times ... inspiring hope to others. And all without an utterance heard of the familiar incantation, “O Mighty Isis!”

SPECIAL BRAZILIAN BONUS! Two more pages from the 1964 Almanaque do O Globo Juvenil. Brazil’s comics continued Cap’s exploits for years after Fawcett stopped producing them in 1953—and in this special story, had CM meet Timely/Marvel’s original Human Torch, whose tales they’d also reprinted at one time. This symbolic splash for Chapter II is the first we see of the Torch—not that you’d know who he was if Cap didn’t call him by name! [©2005 the respective holders; Capt. Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics; Human Torch TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch” (Continued)

NOTE: Re-enter: The Cobra, who is identical to an early Timely/Marvel villain called The Python. This tale was unearthed by John G. Pierce, and has been translated from the Portuguese and relettered by Mark Leubker. The 1964 art is by Rodriguez Zelis, with modern-day art restoration and grey tones by Matt Moring. With special thanks to Rodrigo M. Zeidan and Matt Gore. [©2005 the respective copyright holders; Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

74 “Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch”

[See more pages of this offbeat Brazilian classic in future issues of A/E & FCA.]

Special SEASON’S GREETINGS Section!

Alter Ego 1943 Calendar P

robably never figured you’d see a brand new 1943 calendar again, didja? Well, when you turn the page, that’s exactly what you’re gonna get! Digital designer and comics fan Alex Wright came up with the idea of doing one for A/E— and once I saw the way Alex used his computer skills to turn a photo of World War II movie star Veronica Lake into Liberty Belle, a DC heroine whose peek-aboo hair style actually was patterned after the one the luscious Miss Lake had made famous, I was wild about the idea.

Alex and I kicked around notions of which stars and pin-ups should be cast as which super-heroines— although admittedly, in a few cases Alex utilized a photo of a “body double.” Just for the heck of it, we decided all twelve months should showcase ladies either first published by DC (and its 1940-45 sister company All-American) or by then-rivals Fawcett and Quality, whose characters DC’s purchased in the years since—with a few “retroactive-continuity” lasses tossed in because there was always a shortage of superheroines in Golden Age comics! Like the ads on TV say, this calendar is “not for sale in stores”—in fact, it’s not for sale at all. It’s just a bonus—a fun holiday gift from Alex and Alter Ego to you! We only wish we could’ve printed all 13 images in color! Why “13”? Hey, we needed an intro page, didn’t we? And what better image for this one than the farfamed cover of All-Star Comics #3 (Winter 1940), with the eight charter members of the Justice Society of America replaced by an “Earth-G” octet of pulchritudinous pin-ups of the female persuasion—some of whom aren’t the same stars shown on the ensuing pages! Yeah, we know Black Canary wasn’t around in 1943—we just wanted here there! [Art compositions on following 13 pages ©2005 Alex Wright; all characters on following 13 pages TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Roll Call Lana Turner as Black Canary Ava Gardner as Phantom Lady Veronica Lake as Liberty Belle Jane Russell as Wonder Woman Dorothy Lamour as Hawkgirl Greer Garson as Bulletgirl Judy Garland as Mary Marvel Marjorie Main as The Red Tornado

Oh, and right after the calendar, keep plowing ahead—and you’ll run straight into our annual-tradition “Season’s greetings cards and art from the pros” section!

Special Season’s Greetings Section!

Veronica Lake as Liberty Belle What a way to usher in the new year. Okay, so “Veronica’s” real name was Constance Ockleman. As reported in Quinland’s Illustrated Registry of Film Stars, the young lady’s “unique peek-a-boo hairstyle… draped over her right eye, swept the country until some spoilsports caviled that factory girls could get such hair caught in machinery.” When she cut off her distinctive locks during the later part of World War II, her career declined. Her greatest role was in 1943’s war movie So Proudly We Hail!

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(Oh, and since Liberty Belle didn’t actually wear a mask in issues of Boy Commandos and Star Spangled Comics in which she appeared from 1943-47, we’re spotlighting her that way here. Guess she figured her hair would hide enough of her face to protect her identity as newscaster Libby Lawrence! On our cover, of course, she wears a mask as per her 1980s appearances in All-Star Squadron.)

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Joan Crawford as Bulletgirl Run up the flag for Presidents Day! Joan Crawford, too, had a secret identity—her real name was Lucille LeSueur, but maybe the studio figured it sounded too much like “LeSewer.” Once she dyed her hair dark, she forever left behind her silent-movie “flapper” image, and she became immensely popular playing strong-willed women. With her reputation as a real “man-eater,” on and off the screen, she’d have been anything but a shrinking-violet partner for Bulletman in Master Comics and Bulletman! Matter of fact, she’d probably have taken the mag away from him! Most famous movie: she won an Oscar for Mildred Pierce (1945).

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Special Season’s Greetings Section!

Lucille Ball as Hawkgirl Her famous red hair may have been as unnatural as Hawkgirl’s strap-on wings, but the multi-talented comedienne didn’t need feathers to fly! After a slow start in movies, in the 1950s her and husband Desi Arnaz’s TV series I Love Lucy became the hottest thing on the new medium. Too bad (or maybe not) that we couldn’t talk Alex Wright into computerizing Desi into Hawkman, the star of Flash Comics and longtime chairman of the JSA! Lucy’s biggest movie was probably 1973’s Mame—but it’s for her first two TV series that she’ll be forever remembered. They’ll probably still be making people fall out of their chairs laughing when Per Degaton really does manage to conquer the world by changing crucial events in time.

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Rita Hayworth as Firebrand All right, so the Firebrand who debuted in 1981’s All-Star Squadron isn’t technically a Golden Age heroine—“only” the retroactive-continuity version of the male hero of that name from early Police Comics, who with no super-powers had little going for him besides great artwork by Reed Crandall. Just the same, Rita would’ve been great during the WWII years, playing the flame-powered femme version. Hey, she even had red hair—like Roy’s wife Dann. (Brandy’s alter ego Danette Reilly was christened after Dann’s birth-name, which she changed legally around that time.)

April

Whether as Firebrand or as herself, Rita would’ve started blazes that it’d take a fire truck to put out! Remember her singing “Put the Blame on Mame” in Gilda in 1946? Glenn Ford sure does!

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Special Season’s Greetings Section!

Judy Garland as Mary Marvel In 1943, of course, Mary Marvel’s name would never have been invoked in the hallowed halls of National/DC—except by one of the attorneys handling its lawsuit against Fawcett over Captain Marvel’s alleged infringement of DC’s Superman copyright. Since the 1970s, though, the “Shazam girl” has been an integral part of the DC pantheon— though Roy’ll never accept her in a white outfit! Originally written by Otto Binder and first drawn by A/E’s own Marc Swayze (later by Otto’s brother Jack), Mary was especially noteworthy in postwar issues of The Marvel Family.

1943 SUN

30 2 9 16 23 30

MON

30 3 10 17 24 31

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30 4 11 18 25 30

May WED

30 5 12 10 26 30

As for Judy Garland—she was still playing quasi-juvenile roles during WWII, a few years after her greatest role, Dorothy in the 1939 Wizard of Oz. If she’d ever got a chance to play Mary Marvel, she really could have flown “Over the Rainbow”!

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30 6 13 20 27 30

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1 7 14 21 28 30

1943 SAT

1 8 15 22 39 30

Alter Ego 1943 Calendar

Jane Russell as Wonder Woman Col. Steve Trevor of Military Intelligence tried for decades to get Wonder Woman to become his June bride—though he’d probably have settled for any old month! And who better to play the Amazing Amazon than Jane Russell? Jane’s first movie, Howard Hughes’ infamous Western The Outlaw, was briefly released in 1943, though censors kept it mostly off the screen for several years. We concur with Quinlan’s Illustrated Registry of Film Stars that her greatest roles were opposite Robert Mitchum (the 1952 film noir Macao) and comedian Bob Hope (The Paleface in 1948 and Son of Paleface in ’52)— but she held her own against Marilyn Monroe in 1953’s Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, as well!

1943 SUN

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3 10 17 24 28

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4 11 18 25 29

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5 12 19 26 30

Special Season’s Greetings Section!

Rhonda Fleming as Miss America There were actually two super-heroines called Miss America in Golden Age comics. Quality’s version, who debuted in Military Comics #1 (Aug. 1941) but only donned a red-white-and-blue costume a couple of issues later, starred in just seven stories, far fewer than the later Timely/Marvel Miss A.—but in the 1980s she was hauled into the 1940s All-Star Squadron, only to be immediately rendered comatose. Post-Crisis on Infinite Earths, she retroactively replaced the now non-extant WWII Wonder Woman as the mother (but was it birth or adoptive?) of the Fury who belonged in Infinity, Inc. As for red-haired, green-eyed Rhonda Fleming— she began making movies during the WWII years (her first film, In Old Oklahoma, was later retitled War of the Wildcats), and finally made her mark opposite Bing Crosby in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court in 1949. She was worth fighting over in 1957’s Gunfight at the OK Corral, too!

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30 1 1 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31

Alter Ego 1943 Calendar

Marjorie Main as The Red Tornado Now for something completely different! Marjorie Main was already 47 years old when she played the mother who hated her evil son Humphrey Bogart in the 1937 film version of Dead End. Though she appeared with Judy Garland in Meet Me in St. Louis in ’44, her big break came in 1947’s The Egg and I, where she “became” Ma Kettle, opposite Percy Kilbride’s equally perfect Pa Kettle! From 1949-56 she starred in one “Ma and Pa Kettle” film a year, the last one without Percy. No one except possibly Marie Dressler (who’d died in 1934) would’ve made a better Ma Hunkel, a.k.a. The Red Tomato—oops, we mean The Red Tornado!—who co-starred during the war years in AA editor Sheldon Mayer’s wonderful feature “Scribbly” in AllAmerican Comics. While she was never officially a member of the Justice Society, she did attend their first meeting in All-Star Comics #3 in 1940—but she tore her pants on the way out!

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Special Season’s Greetings Section!

Nancy Kwan as Tsunami Okay, so this one’s a bit of a stretch! Nancy Kwan, who shot to stardom in 1960’s The World of Suzie Wong, was only born in 1938—and she was Eurasian, born in Hong Kong, rather than Japanese, like the nisei super-villainess (and later heroine) that writer/editor Roy Thomas and artist Rick Hoberg backdated into the wartime All-Star Squadron in the 1980s. So who else could we have used for this calendar? Anna May Wong? (The latter was of Chinese parentage herself.) Back in World War II, Hollywood wasn’t exactly making stars out of people of Japanese descent! But Nancy’d have made a great Tsunami, all the same! Her other great role was in the film version of Rodgers and Hammerstein’s Flower Drum Song in 1961. Hey, she even made a movie with Pat Boone! And Roy has seen Suzie Wong, like, a couple of dozen times! He can even hum the theme song—and he never hears the strains of “Out of Nowhere” without seeing her striding out of that Hong Kong bar while William Holden watches, wideeyed!

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30 1 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

Alter Ego 1943 Calendar

Betty Grable as The Tigress (later The Huntress) Actually, the Golden Age villainess The Huntress only debuted in post-WWII issues of Sensation Comics, battling Wildcat to a series of standstills— and became famous first as a member of the 2nd Injustice Society, then in the 1960s as the first married super-villainess, wed to The Sportsmaster. But Roy Thomas, in need of vintage females for The Young All-Stars in the latter 1980s, backdated her to a late-teens masked heroine called The Tigress, in the days before she went bad. And when she was bad— she was terrific!

1943 SUN

30 3 10 17 24 31

Betty Grable, of course, was one of the primo pinups of the war years, with her trademark legs allegedly insured for a million dollars (which was a decent amount of money at the time). She became a star in 1940’s Down Argentine Way, and the fabled pose that Alex Wright utilized for this pic of her as Tigress/Huntress was one the most famous pin-ups of WWII. (But, Alex—is that really Cary Grant trying to sneak up on her as Wildcat?)

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30 4 11 18 25

October

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30 5 12 19 26 30

WED

30 6 13 20 27 30

THU

30 7 14 21 28 30

FRI

1 8 15 22 29 30

1943 SAT

2 9 16 23 30 30

Special Season’s Greetings Section!

Shirley Temple as Fury Shirley Temple was, bar none, the most popular child star of all time. By the time of Pearl Harbor she was 13, and the 1930s headliner of Little Miss Marker, Curly Top, Baby Take a Bow, et al., would’ve been nearly old enough to play Fury in a Young All-Stars movie of that era—although by then the Good Ship Lollipop had beached, and she had to play a teenager in such wartime melodramas as 1944’s Since You Went Away and I’ll Be Seeing You. (What? You mean those were actually two different movies?) But, of course, the heroine named Fury she plays here didn’t exist until 1987’s The Young All-Stars #1. (Oddly, a later Fury had appeared earlier—as one of Infinity, Inc.— and it’s rumored that the WWII Fury, not Miss America, may have been the birthmother of Lyta Trevor during the post-Crisis era. Sheesh! It’s all enough to make you wish Degaton had conquered the world by changing past events. Or maybe we could at least get him to delete Crisis!)

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Alter Ego 1943 Calendar

Betty Page as Phantom Lady Sandra Knight launched her career as The Phantom Lady in Police Comics #1 (Aug. 1941), in the same yellow-and-green outfit she sported in 1980s issues of All-Star Squadron, long after Quality Comics’ heroes had moved over to DC. Only, back in the ’40s, it seems Phantom Lady was the property of Jerry Iger, who only leased her to Quality—and she achieved her most memorable status when revived by Fox Comics from 1947-49, with covers that were the ultimate incarnation of the so-called “headlight comics.” (And no, they weren’t called that because Phantom Lady drove a fancy car.) Ironically, the now-legendary cheesecake and nude model Betty Page was making a face and body (though not yet a name) for herself around the time Victor Fox’s foxy Lady was blinding the bad guys with her Blackout Ray and bare cleavage… though some folks claim that the most famous Phantom Lady cover (issue #17, April 1948) was actually based on Jane Russell! Anyway—consider this illo, and the entire calendar, a Christmas present to you from Alex Wright and Alter Ego!

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30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 Happy Holidays—and turn the page for Season’s Greetings cards from the pros!

Still Another Four-Color Christmas In Black-&-White Yet More Holiday Hellos Sent By Comics Pros

NTRO-HO-HO-HO! Since 2003, our December issue has printed season’s greetings, whether of the Christmas or more general variety, drawn and sent by comics artisans. Here, courtesy of A/E’s readers and the cartoonists themselves, is another holiday helping. —Roy.

Reed Crandall This reproduction of a card from the late great artist plagued by ghosts from his own Christmases past—i.e., characters he’d drawn over the years— appeared in Squa Tront’s 1983 Complete Guide to EC Comics. Let’s see— there’s Flash Gordon and Dale Arden… The Ray… NoMan… Blackhawk… Tarzan… Firebrand… John Carter and Dejah Thoris… Dracula… and a spear-carrier from EC’s Piracy. Thanks to John Benson. [Art ©2005 Estate of Reed Crandall; characters ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Harvey Kurtzman John Benson also sent this art he received some years ago from the creator of Mad, who was one of the 20th century’s most influential humorists (as well as one of comics’ best writers of war stories). John says this is “the closest Harvey came to a personal card – this original drawing [is] on the inside of a commercial card.” A treasure in any form. [©2005 Adele Kurtzman.]

Still Another Four-Colour Christmas In Black-&-White

Joe Sinnott Noted both for his full artwork and as one of Jack Kirby’s greatest inkers ever, Joltin’ Joe has done numerous Christmas cards featuring singer Bing Crosby… some of which were seen in A/E #26 & #31. This one was accompanied by a poem about Crosby by E.J. White. The semi-retired Joe, who still inks the Sunday Spider-Man strip, spent some down time this year, after he dislocated his shoulder when he took a fall while leaving the home of his old pal Mickey Spillane. But he’s on the mend, and Jim Amash has been ably filling in for him on Spidey. Thanks for the copy of the card, Joe & Betty! [©2005 Joe Sinnott.]

Nick Cardy He’s drawn such heroes as Aquaman, The Teen Titans, Bat Lash—and now “St. Nick” draws St. Nick! Although Mr. C’s had an entire book written about his illustrious career, look for an upcoming interview with him in a near-future issue of Alter Ego—and it won’t be just a rehash! Thanks to Nick and to John Coates. [©2005 Nick Cardy.]

Alex Ross Jim Mooney The artist of “Supergirl,” “Tommy Tomorrow,” “Spider-Man,” “Man-Thing,” and so many other features for DC, Marvel, and others for so many years drew this illo for cards sent out by collector Dewey Cassell (author of TwoMorrows’ recent book The Art of George Tuska). So let’s consider it holiday greetings from both of ’em! [Art ©2005 Jim Mooney; Man-Thing TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Super-Santa by the super-artist who for the past decade has been presenting the ultimate visualizations of some of the 20th (and 21st!) century’s greatest super-hero icons— including those on this issue’s cover! Our terrific transcriber and time-to-time typist Brian K. Morris sent us this card illo by Alex—so thanks to Brian, and to Alex for giving us his blessing to print it. [©2005 Alex Ross.]

Special Season’s Greetings Section! Russ Heath Near as we can recall, the artist sent us a copy of this card when he was interviewed for A/E #40. Russ has drawn it all—and he’s as good as ever! [Art ©2005 Russ Heath; Silent Knight & Sgt. Rock TM & ©2005 DC Comics; Kid Colt TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Little Annie Fanny TM & ©Playboy.]

Ernie Schroeder It never fails to amaze us! Just three years ago, Ye Ed didn’t even know the name of the artist of a beautiful “Heap” page we ran in Alter Ego #18—and now, we’re spotlighting a Christmas card from Ernie featuring Airboy and The Heap, two characters the Golden Age artist drew so wonderfully for the late-’40s/early ’50s Airboy Comics! Great stuff, Ernie—even if I had to get a scan of the card from Jim Amash! [Art ©2005 Ernie Schroeder; Airboy & Heap TM & ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Roy & Dann Thomas

Alex Saviuk After years of drawing first DC, then Marvel, comic books, Alex currently pencils the Sunday Spider-Man strip, and inks Larry Lieber’s dailies for same. We forget who writes that strip. Guy name of Stan… Sam… something like that. [Art ©2005 Alex Saviuk; Spider-Man TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

A blast from the past—like, the early ’80s in L.A. Ignatz the cat and Muggy the hamster pose for a Christmas card photo in front of a “List of Bad Things”—which, as far as Muggy was concerned, definitely included “Eating the Hamster.” But don’t worry—Ignatz never laid a paw on ’im! Photo by Dann Thomas.

, Season’ s Greetings to One and All!