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Volume 1, Number 110 February 2019 EDITOR-IN-CHIEF Michael Eury PUBLISHER John Morrow

Comics’ Bronze Age and Beyond!

DESIGNER Rich Fowlks COVER ARTISTS Al Milgrom and Mike Machlan (unused cover for Marvel’s West Coast Avengers #38) COVER COLORIST Glenn Whitmore COVER DESIGNER Michael Kronenberg PROOFREADER Rob Smentek SPECIAL THANKS Will Alonis Howard Mackie Jim Amash Sam Maronie Ken Avidor Franck Martini Michael Browning Marvel Comics Dewey Cassell Marvel Epic Tom DeFalco Collection Podcast Cecil Disharoon Robert Menzies Dave Drew Allen Milgrom East Coast Comicon Ian Millsted Scott Edelman Doug Moench Steve Englehart Ann Nocenti Chris Evans Luigi Novi Irving Forbush Dennis O’Neil Cliff Galbraith Harold Parker Grand Comics Rose Rummel-Eury Database Jason Sacks Paul Gulacy Mark Sears Heritage Comics Ken Segal Auctions Roger Stern John Holmstrom Dan Tandarich Terry Kavanagh Roy Thomas Robin Kirby Steven Thompson John Kirk John Trumbull Erik Larsen Mark Waid Ed Lute Marv Wolfman Ralph Macchio Xum Yukinori Mike Machlan

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FLASHBACK: Carmine Infantino: The Marvel Years . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 How the former Flash artist and DC publisher got his groove back at Marvel INTERVIEW: Carmine Infantino Discusses His Marvel Days . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 An archived Q&A with the legendary artist BACKSTAGE PASS: Mighty Marvel Comicon 1975 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Insiders and attendees recall Marvel’s first homegrown con; with a teaser for the ’76 con UNKNOWN MARVEL: The Batty British Fans of the 1970s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 Marvel UK’s lettercols were home to mirthful misinformation and wild requests GREATEST STORIES NEVER TOLD: The “Lost” West Coast Avengers Stories . . . . . . . . . 24 Steve Englehart’s much-maligned Mantis… and a WCA civil war!

FLASHBACK: All That Pizzazz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 Marvel’s pre-teen zine of the late ’70s INTERVIEW: Denny O’Neil: The Marvel Years . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 The legendary Batman writer/editor discusses his Spidey, Daredevil, and Iron Man work FLASHBACK: Marvel Comics Presents . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49 Launching in the late 1980s, this biweekly anthology showcased top and new talent FLASHBACK: Speedball: The Silver Age Superhero from the Copper Age . . . . . . . . . . . 61 So, why did this Masked Marvel get bounced from his solo series?

PRO2PRO: Writing Daredevil with Ann Nocenti and Mark Waid . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 The fearless fan-favorites compare notes on Ol’ Hornhead BACK TALK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78 Reader reactions BACK ISSUE™ is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614. Michael Eury, Editor-in-Chief. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: BACK ISSUE, c/o Michael Eury, Editor-in-Chief, 112 Fairmount Way, New Bern, NC 28562. Email: euryman@gmail.com. Eight-issue subscriptions: $76 Economy US, $125 International, $32 Digital. Please send subscription orders and funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial office. Cover art by Al Milgrom and Mike Machlan. West Coast Avengers and related characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © 2019 Michael Eury and TwoMorrows. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 1

When Carmine Infantino (1925-2013) was a kid, his mother told the young boy that she was sorry he was going to be an artist. But he had a clear vision of what he wanted to do with his life. The 1930s were years of economic hardship and people struggled to make a wage, never mind their dreams. Infantino began his art career penciling comic features for what would be DC Comics, supplementing his parents’ household income.

Over time, he would make friends and climb the corporate ladder that would lead him to the security of executive positions helming the company. Sadly, this ended abruptly when it seemed he was at the zenith of his work. But after this emotional setback, Infantino’s return to artistry with Marvel Comics was one of the most meaningful periods in his career.

The Depression Era-raised Infantino had to recover from an emotionally crippling blow, after his disappointing departure from the company to which he had dedicated most of his career. But those raised in the Great Depression were made of resilient stuff, and it was his time at Marvel Comics that served as a gateway to a renewed success.

Coming back to freelance artistry and working on characters like Spider-Woman, Paladin in Daredevil, and his iconic work on Star Wars re-established him as a premiere artist in the Bronze Age. In the end, Infantino was remembered who he was—a hard-working comic-book artist.

by J o

hn Kirk

Infantino was raised during the Great Depression. Work was hard to come by and every extra penny earned was one that was saved for a rainy day. From working-class Italian stock, Carmine’s parents were disappointed when, after finishing high school at New York City’s School of Industrial Arts on 42nd Street, he announced he was going to pursue a career in art. Work was scarce and to lock oneself into a career that offered little stability, despite the talent the young Carmine clearly demonstrated, seemed risky and counter to every one of his parents’ instincts. They had hoped to instill within him the same value of a secure job that would provide for a pension in his latter years.

Infantino’s mother told him to get a “city job” and make a living for life. That way, he wouldn’t “have to worry.” Worry was an essential part of the Infantino household. He shined shoes as a boy and brought money home to his parents as an essential part of their family income. This was a discipline that Infantino never lost, and it contributed greatly to his career.

Neither of his parents wanted their son to suffer as they had. His mother sewed pants in a factory and Infantino’s talented musician father had little education and needed to work early to support his own family. Later, he would give up his musical career in the Depression to work as a plumber. Yet they were insistent that their son received an education. Perhaps going to the School for Industrial Arts was a compromise to supply him with that education, yet at the same time, expose him to the arts.

However, this environment allowed the teenaged Infantino to “make the rounds,” honing his craft under the guidance of some of the greats of the day. He received an offer from cartoonist Al Capp, which would have meant leaving school early. His father objected to that, stating that if the job was there then, it would be there later after he finished school. He visited artists like Morris Weiss, who was generous with advice to Carmine and other artists.

He learned from artists like Charlie Flanders, who used to draw The Lone Ranger, and he hung out with Frank Giacoia, who, like Carmine himself, got his first professional 2 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

All covers TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc., except for Star Wars, TM & © Lucasfilm Ltd.

THE EARLY YEARS

job from publisher Victor Fox. He had a network that would serve him well, more as an executive than an artist.

While clearly indulging his talent, nurturing his artist’s spirit, Carmine found work, even as early in his high school years, but even after he graduated and worked, in the back of his mind was still that family-ingrained mentality of finding and keeping a steady and secured income. All of the money the young Infantino made went to the family, keeping home and hearth together.

While he was learning to become a better artist and doing what he clearly loved, his mind was always on stability. This was how Infantino viewed success.

In an interview with Jim Amash, in the TwoMorrows book Carmine Infantino: Penciler, Publisher, Provocateur, Infantino admitted that he never felt successful.

Growing up in the Great Depression filled him with a fear, one that was shared by Jack Kirby.

“He said, ‘Carmine, you’ve got my problem.’ I said, ‘What the hell is that?’ He said, ‘The fear. You never lose that fear of the Depression. As long as you live, you’re going to have that. No matter how successful you get, you will never lose that.’ And he was right. I never felt successful because of that. Never, never at any point.”

For a lot of us in the 21st Century, it’s difficult to even conceive of the level of impoverishment that was so rampantly prevalent in the 1930s, and the emotional aftereffects of living in that time: soup lines, overwhelming unemployment, riots in the streets of the major cities of the US, and folks simply looking to earn a daily wage to feed their families. Infantino grew up during this time,

and it is the attitudes of this decade that shaped his perception to work.

Moving between the ’40s and the ’50s, Carmine was lucky enough to frequent the studios of the likes of Joe Kubert and Alex Toth. Though he never shared space but would work with them later, the association with these legendary artists gave him pause for self-doubt and uncertainty. He was to have said that while other artists liked their own work, he never did. In another conversation with Jim Amash, he recounted: “I always felt there was something wrong, not quite good enough, always not good enough. Maybe they felt the same way and never said it. One time, Jack Kirby told me that the minute you’re satisfied with what you’re doing, you’re no good anymore. I didn’t want that to happen to me.”

A combination of diminished self-worth and a sense of financial insecurity were extremely prevalent during these formative years of Infantino’s career. Not only would these pervade his decision-making but they would also form the foundation of the artistic sensibilities, perhaps overriding his love of art for art’s sake. It’s a good question, but while no one can dispute his talent and artistic sensibilities, at heart, Carmine Infantino was born of that practical working-class stock who knew the value of a dollar and never turned away a bird in the hand. This style of thinking would emerge and influence his future career as he grew older and looked at life through more experienced eyes.

As he grew older and more secure in his career, Infantino became a company man. He was constantly

Good Hair Day (left) When launching Spider-Woman’s monthly series (#1, Apr. 1978), Carmine Infantino had inherited the character’s hooded costume… (right) but within that very issue he allowed her to let her hair down.

Script by Marv Wolfman, inks by Tony DeZuniga.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 3

Cover Unplugged While Infantino’s cover art and cover designs energized many of DC’s titles in the late Silver and early Bronze Ages, at Marvel Carmine was mostly used as an interior artist. From the archives of Heritage comes this moody— and unpublished— Infantino cover for Spider-Woman #13 (Apr. 1979), which was, as notated in red above the art, rejected. In the inset is the published cover for the issue,

by Dave Cockrum (one of Marvel’s main cover artists of that era) and Bob McLeod.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

4 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

aware of the precariousness of the freelancer’s state of being. Living from paycheck to paycheck, delivering work with the knowledge that one might not get paid for it, forced him to constantly be on the look out for new opportunities. As a result, in the mid-point of his penciling days at DC Comics, he was one of the highest-paid artists in the business, with The Flash and Adam Strange in Mystery in Space being his most celebrated DC assignments.

Also, his status as a loyal and successful employee made him a natural rallying focus for attempts to unionize freelance artists. But Infantino would have none of it.

He felt that his presence in a union was just a lure to bring others in, but he had a good relationship with DC management. He wasn’t about to jeopardize that relationship at the expense of his working wage. He even took pay cuts during lean years to keep the company afloat. Perhaps it was his working-class ethos, but Carmine was not a political firebrand; he had a family to support and the echoes of his parents’ fears still resonating in his ears. Infantino was a true employee and his future with DC was of paramount importance to the way he viewed success, not as an artist, but as a breadwinner.

CORPORATE LADDER

During the ’60s, as Infantino was making his way up through the DC ranks, it was around this time that he was courted by Marvel to come and work for them as an artist. Carmine had become the cover editor for DC. Stan Lee offered Infantino a hefty salary of $22,000 to join Marvel in the same capacity. It was this offer that prompted DC to offer Carmine a promotion to art director, as they couldn’t offer him the same salary. Infantino saw greater security in the new executive position and stayed with DC, out of this sense of security as well as loyalty.

This position not only afforded him more security as a salaried, corporate employee at the company but also gave him a degree of status. During his time, Infantino was overseeing 30 to 40 covers a month. It was a hectic job, keeping schedules together, but it was one that saw him as reliable and necessary. Staying until 10 p.m. in the office at nights, he felt rewarded by his sense of indispensability.

It was such a compliment to his abilities, and Infantino never even asked if new positions came with a raise.

They also prepared him for his rapid rise to the positions of editorial director and eventually, publisher. When asked

A Long Time Ago… (left) Infantino’s history with DC’s top space hero Adam Strange made him a natural for Marvel’s Star Wars comic, but (right) the series’ detailed weaponry, spaceships, and unusual characters and terrains ultimately exhausted the artist. Inks by Terry Austin, over an Archie Goodwin script.

Star Wars TM & © Lucasfilm Ltd.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 5

CARMINE INFANTINO MARVEL COMICS CHECKLIST, 1977–1982 • • • • • • • •

Avengers #178, 197, 203, 244 Captain America #245 Daredevil #149–150, 152 Defenders #55–56 Ghost Rider #43–44 Howard the Duck #21, 28 The Incredible Hulk #244 Iron Man #108–109, 122, 158

• Marvel Fanfare (Dr. Strange) #8, (Shanna the She-Devil) #56 • Marvel Preview (Star-Lord) #14–15 • Marvel Team-Up #92–93, 97, 105 • Ms. Marvel #14, 19 • Nova #15–20, 22–25 • Savage Sword of Conan #34 • Spider-Woman #1–19

• Star Wars #11–15, 18–37, 45–48, Annual #2; #53–54 (with Walter Simonson) • Super-Villain Team-Up #16 • What If? (Nova) #15, (Ghost Rider, Spider-Woman, Captain Marvel) #17

about how he dealt with the differences of working as a lone freelancer to suddenly working in an office environment, surrounded by people for about 12- to 13-hour days, Infantino dismissively replied, “You learned to play the game.”

Office politics may have been a new game to Carmine, but it was one that he had to adjust to fairly quickly.

He even won the grudging pride of his parents.

While his father was a taciturn sort, rarely given to comment, his mother was extremely pleased with her son’s success.

In fact, in a turnaround attitude from her prior dim view of Carmine’s career choice she even lamented his giving up his art, now that he “had gotten so good at it.”

In short, Infantino had achieved security and stability at the cost of his art. While he may have found the time here and there to do the occasional cover or two, Carmine was now an executive, and that became his focus.

FALL FROM GRACE

The lofty position cost Infantino friends. Even though he made pals like DC editors Joe Kubert and Joe Orlando, he was a loner and felt resentment from his employees. Carmine was made publisher in 1971, with the task of halting DC’s drop in sales. His first strategy was to raise comic prices from 15 to 25 cents, adding more pages. Marvel enacted the same change, yet almost immediately dropped their extra pages and their cover price to 20 cents, underpricing DC and hurting their market share. Other attempts to combat Marvel failed, and Infantino was unceremoniously replaced by Jenette Kahn as DC publisher in 1975.

Embittered by his ousting, Infantino returned to freelancing. Yet he had left that life so far behind that it was emotionally and professionally draining to start it up again. He couldn’t bring himself to return to drawing for DC, out of pride and bad blood, and while there was commercial work available, there wasn’t enough of it to supply his lifestyle. In fact, he had even sold his drawing board and reference files to Joe Kubert, planning to leave that life behind. But there was one other door to open, and that was Marvel Comics.

THE MARVEL YEARS

Wheel of Misfortune The Wheel—a.k.a. the Wheel of Death—as shown on the cover of Star Wars #19 (Jan. 1979), by Infantino inked by Bob Wiacek.

Star Wars TM & © Lucasfilm Ltd.

6 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

The beginning of this new period of Infantino’s career was marked by severe emotional pain. He was crushed at the loss of his job, something that he kept from his mother, who was undergoing medical issues at the same time.

As he had grown accustomed to the loner’s life, he closed himself off from his friends in the industry even more.

He completely withdrew and felt deeply hurt. The shame of losing a job was a powerful blow to a Depression-era kid.

Although awkward at first, returning to the basics as an artist at Marvel Comics was a boon—a disguised boon, as it allowed him to regain access to that creative part of his life again. This short period saw him create some of the most memorable contributions to comic history that nearly eclipsed his previous DC work in a short period of time. As a Marvel

artist, Infantino produced work that was truly memorable and re-established his status as one of the most recognizable artists of his generation.

It was in 1976 that Carmine started getting his feet wet as a freelancer again. He went to Warren Publishing and worked on titles like Creepy and Vampirella. Carmine was surrounded by the likes of Bernie Wrightson, Walter Simonson, and John Severin. He felt it was liberating; concentrating on design and story, he could draw the way he wanted to and found he liked the challenge of being back in the artist’s game. It was at this critical, gateway time that Infantino presented some of his most recognizable work of the Bronze Age of Comics.

SPIDER-WOMAN

Around the Warren days, Carmine worked briefly at Hanna-Barbera as a character designer, but returned to the East Coast to care for his ailing mother.

In 1978 he was able to start work with Marvel, bringing titles like SpiderWoman to his doorstep.

In his own words, Infantino “got a kick” out of drawing this book and this character.

His renewed sense of liberation allowed him to take a bold approach to her.

Infantino recalled that the editor at the time (which would have been Marv Wolfman) remarked that Carmine had changed the character from what was originally given him.

His attitude and response to that was carefree and relaxed, but essentially there was no opposition to his vision, only enthusiasm. There was also a definitive reason for drawing Spider-Woman in the dark manner that fans enthusiastically recall. He remembered this reason: “Spider-Woman had to be drawn as mysterious, but she still had to be very feminine. That was important.”

In the foreword in Marvel Masterworks vol. #225, Marv Wolfman remembered his time working with Carmine on Spider-Woman: “I have to admit I lucked out big time. I was told the legendary Carmine Infantino was going to be my artist. You see, I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s—long before the debut of the Marvel Comics we know—loving Carmine’s art on such different titles… and now I was getting the chance to work with him? How much better could it get? In Archie [Goodwin] and Sal’s [Buscema] original Marvel Spotlight story, Spider-Woman wore a mask that also covered her hair, but I knew Carmine drew incredibly beautiful women so I suggested that he cut off the top of the mask and let her long hair flow behind her. Needless to say, Jessica looked fabulous.”

There was also another positive aspect to this point in his career, and a much-needed one. Infantino also experienced a greater sense of respect from the collaborators he worked with at Marvel, which served

as an important, albeit bitter, comparison to his time at DC. Artists like Tony DeZuniga, Craig Russell, and Terry Austin were among some of the powerhouse talents who inked his work.

“Overall, I’d say I had superior inkers at Marvel than I did at DC,” Infantino remarked. “They were quality inkers, some of the best inkers I ever had working on my stuff.

Marvel put their best guys on my work. Not one of them was a hack. I can’t say the same for DC. … I think they respected my penciling more than the DC inkers.

And most of them knew what they were doing.”

It was this comparison, along with the greater sense of challenge, freedom, and respect, that hallmarked his initial days at Marvel. The awkward and forced return to his penciling career became a relief as well as restorative to his confidence.

STAR WARS

Infantino thought that his years on DC’s Adam Strange would have been enough of a preparation for Star Wars, but he had never seen the movie and had no idea what the series would be about. Transitioning from Marvel’s The Human Fly and Nova to Star Wars also was a great relief.

Carmine enjoyed good stories and regarded the former two Marvel titles as “dumb… and nothing special.” It was the storywriting in Star Wars that appealed to him. He gave credit to legendary editor and writer Archie Goodwin, the long-time writer of Marvel’s Star Wars series.

It was Archie who prompted Carmine to go and see the legendary George Lucas film.

Once Infantino had seen Star Wars, he immediately “picked up on it” and the Marvel tie-in became one of his favorite works.

When Titans Clash When Carmine did deliver a Marvel cover, he usually knocked it out of the park, like (main) this dynamite one for The Man Called Nova #24 (Mar. 1979). Inks by Josef Rubinstein. Courtesy of Heritage. (inset) Of course, Infantino was no stranger to the “running showdown” cover layout, having drawn this iconic JLA vs. JSA one (with Murphy Anderson inks) for DC’s Justice League of America #56 (Sept. 1967).

Nova TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Justice League and related characters TM & © DC Comics.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 7

Super Splashes While Marvel underutilized Infantino as a cover artist, Carmine’s gripping sense of design made most of his splash pages eye-poppers, including: (top) Nova #15 (Nov. 1977, Tom Palmer inks), (middle) Defenders #55 (Jan. 1978, Klaus Janson inks), and (bottom) Marvel Team-Up #97 (Sept. 1980, Al Gordon inks).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Infantino and Archie Goodwin also contributed to Star Wars later canon. They created the Space Station known as “The Wheel,” first seen in issue #18 (Dec. 1978). A pleasure outpost and casino, the Wheel would show up in future issues and even in Star Wars stories published during Dark Horse Comics’ run on the series.

Also, the creation of the illustrious House of Tagge, a fan-favorite, first appeared during this time. The head of the Tagge family, Baron Orman Tagge, was a nobleman who had hoped to oust and replace Darth Vader as the Emperor’s right hand. Failing to do so, he was blinded by Vader’s light saber for his insolence. Baron Tagge and his Mining Consortium family first appeared in issue #25 (July 1979). However, the Tagge family would return as recurring villains in future issues and in modern incarnations of the Star Wars canon in later years.

Marvel’s Star Wars brought an intensified amount of popularity to Infantino’s art. He worked on this book between 1978 and 1981. The Comic Buyer’s Guide placed Star Wars as the top-selling comic of 1979. While Infantino was intensely self-deprecating at times, even he had to admit, as a result of this praise and attention, that he regarded this time as his “best stuff.” It even attracted the attention of Star Wars creator George Lucas, who, as Infantino stated, “loved” his work and requested Carmine work on the comic.

Even though he had drawn a lot of science fiction, Infantino found Star Wars to be particularly taxing, as he was later to say: “[Yes], but this was more difficult, because you’ve got these characters that had to be on model to some extent. Those two robots, the ships, and stuff like that, this was difficult at the beginning, and then I swung into my own look. Eventually, it wore me down.”

However, one telling remark from Marvel’s then-editor-in-chief Jim Shooter was that Shooter felt that Star Wars essentially saved Marvel Comics. Infantino’s work paid off.

It got to the point where Infantino had more work than he could handle. From the latter ’70s to early ’80s, he worked on titles like Iron Man, Ghost Rider, The Avengers, Conan, Marvel Team-Up, and Daredevil. Daredevil #150 saw the introduction of Paladin, a character Carmine created. Infantino was in full swing and the work kept showing up, to the point where he barely remembered the titles he worked on in his later years. To someone with such an engrained work ethic, this must have been a massive sense of reprieve.

“Look, it was work, and I didn’t question it,” Infantino said. “I wanted to keep busy.

So whether it was Conan or Captain America, or whatever… I did it.”

But there was also the work that he didn’t like. From an interview in Comics Journal, Infantino recounted his years on titles like Nova with the idea that “it was mediocre,” but there was a lot of it, and it was that amount of work that kept him busy and active, and returned him to that state where he was best—a working artist who knew his craft. While the stories were uninteresting, work was steady and the volume of it brought him more attention, even from former DC colleague Joe Orlando, who, based on the success Infantino was experiencing at Marvel, would court him to come back and work for DC. By the early 1980s, Infantino’s short-lived fling with Marvel was over. But it had accomplished two things: first, it had made him a successful artist again, and second, it made him one that DC would pay top dollar to have return to the comic titles that he had worked on earlier, like The Flash, plus a new title starring Supergirl. He was now a company of one. No longer did he feel beholden to a company, but was moved more by a sense of self-interest. As an artist he was free to express what he wanted to draw, and this found him success with Marvel Comics when he returned to that path.

Penciling books for Marvel as a freelancer during the ’70s and ’80s regained him the success he had in the ’50s and ’60s. His short, but explosive time at Marvel gave more back to him than he perhaps realized.

In a sense, Carmine Infantino had a successful artist’s career interrupted by a period of corporate ladder-climbing; he illustrated and co-created many of the most recognizable characters in the Silver Age of Comics, followed by making some of the most influential decisions that would affect comic characters for generations. But it was the healing time at Marvel, the return to his drawing roots, that reignited his career during the Bronze Age and made him as much of a success as he was in the Silver Age. Infantino celebrated his career in the end not as a publisher, but as an artist. He remembered the work he did on Star Wars as his best and the people he worked there with as his best memories. His last career years as an artist were made possible by his time at Marvel— and what marvels they were.

Special thanks to Robin Kirby for suggesting this article’s subject.

JOHN KIRK is a librarian and English teacher with the Toronto District School Board in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, who incorporates comics and comics history into his classroom teaching.

8 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

As explored in length in the preceding article, after working for decades at DC Comics and eventually becoming its publisher, Carmine Infantino suddenly found himself out of work. So, after a brief stint in animation, Carmine took a job drawing comics again, but this time at the Distinguished Competition’s main rival—Marvel Comics. In an interview done a decade ago, Infantino talked briefly about his time at Marvel.

– Michael Browning

conducted by

Michael Browning

them up and they’d send another script over and pick up the one I had done. We did this for years. I did a lot of stuff for them.

BROWNING: What led you to leave the animation field and seek work from Marvel?

INFANTINO: I didn’t want to come back to draw comics. Isn’t that funny? I was working on the [West] MICHAEL BROWNING: Back in the Coast with Hanna-Barbera and I 1960s, you were quite busy doing the was enjoying myself. Joe Barbera covers to the Batman books, drawing was a good friend and I did a lot of work for him creating characters.

The Flash and drawing Adam Strange in Mystery in Space, and that made And then my mother got very sick Marvel want you, correct? and my father had died and I had CARMINE INFANTINO: I got an offer to come back to New York. from Stan Lee over at Marvel to come I did Star Wars while I was at join them. As the top artist at DC, Marvel. … I was going crazy imagine doing all that stuff and only with that thing. It was very hard, getting $18,000 a year. That was no Infantino in 2010. © Luigi Novi / Wikimedia Commons. very tough to do Star Wars, [but] money. Stan offered me $5,000 more. I said, “This is good for me and I’m the movie company liked what I drew. … I got so tired of it after a while going to take it.” [DC executive Irwin] Donenfeld intervened and he asked because it was a tough, tough strip to draw, all those drawings of space me to come down to Florida with him for a weekend and talk it out to see ships and things. After a point, I said, “I’ve had enough.” So I quit. what we could do. I said, “You know what is the problem? The money. I couldn’t do it anymore. I was getting stale. We all have to reach a The money.” He said, “Yeah, well, I have another idea in mind.” He said, point at which we know our limits.

“Carmine, your covers are the only ones selling at our company.” He said, At that point, Joe Orlando called me, and I think he was the art “I’d like to make you the cover editor at DC.” I go, “That sounds interesting.” director at DC then or something. He said, “Carmine, what do you think [about returning to DC]?” I said, “Joe, I don’t think I want to He said, “I’ll talk to [DC co-owner] Jack Liebowitz about it.”

Then, nothing happened and they dillydallied. So I quit. And then do it.” But he talked me into it by offering me some pretty good I got a call from Liebowitz about a week later. He said, “Can you meet money. [laughter] So, I did them. I worked with Julie [Schwartz] again me for lunch?” I was getting ready to go to work for Stan. I met and we did Supergirl. That was fun. That and The Flash. But [after a Liebowitz and he was very clever. He just talked about everything while] it got tiresome at the end and it was time to get out.” under the sun—but comics. At the end of the meal, he said, “You know, BROWNING: When you returned from your hiatus and went to work for Carmine, I’ve only known you a short while. I used to have such respect Marvel, your style had changed. I grew up with your art in the 1970s and for you because I thought you were never afraid of a challenge.” 1980s, and I loved it. What caused the change?

And with that—boom!—the bullet went off and I said, “I’m coming INFANTINO: I guess it’s just evolution. You back to work tomorrow—as the editor.” And I did. He had the right liked it? I’ve heard just the reverse. I’ve heard psychology going and it sure worked on me. people say, “You peaked out just before you Marvel had been killing us and I even brought DC neck-and-neck stopped at DC and you never got back to with Marvel. I was ready to bring in some new blood and make some that.” But I enjoyed drawing the stuff over big changes, and then they said it was enough with me and I was gone. at Marvel, like Spider-Woman, and the stuff And that was it. But I’m not sorry for any of the work I did. I did my over at Jim Warren’s. best and you can’t do any more than that.

BROWNING: What was the atmosphere at Marvel like at that time?

Matewan, WV, native MICHAEL BROWNING is an INFANTINO: I never worked there. I had [my own] office and they’d award-winning newspaper editor, writer, and send the work over and they’d pick it up there. I never really connected photographer, and is an advisor with The Overstreet with anyone over [at Marvel]. When I was done with my script, I’d call Comic Book Price Guide.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 9

by C

Con Game (top) Mirthful Marie Severin’s preliminaries for two possible takes on the cover for the first Marvel convention booklet, (bottom left) her note to project manager Scott Edelman, and (bottom right) the actual program cover. Courtesy of Scott Edelman.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc., except for Conan TM & © Conan Properties, LLC.

10 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

ecil Disharoon

Look! I got Dr. Doom’s time machine! Hop on! BACK ISSUE’s set it for an event lost to the world at large—memory, existences!—until now: Mighty Marvel Comicon ’75!

Our visit contains the promise of a secret guest.

Maybe these pre-settings on the time platform suggest that Doom looked for a moment he could again encounter his creators? John Romita, Sr. spins a web of drawing demonstration! Flying in from St. Louis and resembling JJJ for traveling with a photographer, there’s writer and former editor-in-“Don’t Call Me Chief!” Roy Thomas!

Heck, the whole blamed Bullpen’s going to be there!

Quoth Irving Forbush: “Keep your hands inside the platform… enjoy the show!”

We’re going to recollect a big weekend here in New York City: you, me, Stan Lee, and Marvel Comics Group!

Call our group “The Recollectors”!

Pop-culture writer Sam Maronie can tell you this about the first Marvel Con: “The big thing was that Jack Kirby was coming back to Marvel! This was his big welcome! They had it at the Commodore Hotel!”

The cab in front of us opens for a barrel-shaped dude in an overcoat. He pulls down his hat. Thick, orange fingers, with a texture somewhere between stone and dinosaur plate, pry the taxi’s banana-yellow door.

The longhaired, bearded cabbie’s mouth visibly loses its cigarette as a gruff voice barks, “Thanks! Commodore Hotel, and try not to menace any pedestrians! It’s bad fer my image!”

ORGANIZING THE CON

Scott’s Free Grab-Bag of Memories (top) Courtesy of Ken Segal, a membership card for the ’75 Marvel Con. (middle) Edelman’s Marvel ID (identity thieves, don’t even try it…). (bottom) Scurryin’ Scott with Joltin’ Joe Sinnott and Dashin’ Don Perlin.

Photos courtesy of Scott Edelman.

BACK ISSUE’s saved you a cab seat next to the guy in charge of organizing the first Marvel Con, a Bullpenner through and through, the fella who wrote Marvel’s Bullpen Bulletins throughout the mid-’70s as well as the copy for the Marvel 7-11 Slurpee cups and created Marvel’s Scarecrow, science-fiction writer and the host of the Eating the Fantastic podcast… Scott Edelman!

CECIL DISHAROON: I first asked David Anthony Kraft what he remembered about Marvel Con ’75, and he pointed me toward you.

SCOTT EDELMAN: There were people who handled more of the details, because [legendary convention organizer] Phil Seuling was the one who knew about how you organize one, in terms of dealing with the hotel, signing the contacts, and so forth. In terms of what went on at the convention itself, and what was in the program book, I was the point person on that. Which, when you think about it, is pretty ridiculous: They would let a 19-year-old kid be in charge of what was going to happen at a convention.

DISHAROON: Do you remember the earliest date when you were told this was going to be “your baby”?

EDELMAN: The earliest I can prove is September 4, 1974, on which I sent a memo to Stan Lee saying, “This is the text that will be in programs at other conventions and go to advertisers.” So obviously, it had be before that. How long before then, I cannot recall.

I only started on staff on June 24, 1974… That’s less than three months later that I’m already working on a flyer for the convention to come.

DISHAROON: [laughs] Stan Lee kind of “godfathered” the event a bit with memos that you were kind enough to share with me.

EDELMAN: I would basically send memos to him, saying, “This is what we should do, this is the initial program.”

Things would go back and forth about that.

All the initial memos, back and forth, about what should be in the program, and the thoughts from people around the office about advertising, the deal with the Commodore Hotel: those are all January 13, 1975.

So that is only—what, two and a half months, barely? But we were still coming up with programming. When you think about it, the final memo that I have relating to Marvel Con is dated March 10th, which is the third iteration of what I did, in response to what Stan told me. So basically… what, two weeks before the convention?

So the convention’s Friday, March 21st. So here we are, and Stan’s saying, “Here’s what I think about the final program, based on our March 7th meeting.”

That’s awfully late in the game! When you think about what you see at San Diego Comic-Con and others these days, it happens way in advance, so people can decide when they’re going to go, what to see at the convention, and so forth.

So the first memo about “Here’s what I should think should be in the program” is dated January 21st, exactly two months before the Con came out. January 27th is my first memo, addressed to Len [Wein], Marv [Wolfman[, and Stan and myriad people. What is that—like, seven weeks before?—when we are first batting around ideas about what we should be doing at the convention! That is ridiculous!

DISHAROON: What a picture of what Marvel of that era was like.

EDELMAN: Yes! It’s part of that thinking, “Everything is going to all come together.”

I think about the difference in the way a corporation would be run today, how Marvel would be run today, now that it’s owned by Disney. You’d probably have to have a massive committee to do these things, many meetings. Back then, it was just, Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 11

turn to someone who was sitting there in the Bullpen and say, “Okay, you’re doing this thing! You’re going to head up the program book; you’re going to decide what’s going to be at the convention. You’ll be the intermediary with Phil Seuling. Make this thing get off the ground.”

That’s how so much worked back then.

So I put together a preliminary schedule, which I sent to Stan.

He came back with many suggestions, going, “Well, you’re off on certain things.” I had too many events with writers on the panel. [Stan suggested that] there should be more chances for “chalkboard talks” from artists, like John Romita’s demonstration. He indicated that we should never use the word “horror,” even though we were publishing what you would consider horror comic books—Monsters Unleashed, Vampire Tales, all those books—he did not want the word “horror” used in the titles of any of the panels, because the word was a red flag for parents and distributors and so forth. Instead, he suggested we use words like “suspense,” so that we were not giving the wrong impression.

You know, one of the other things, looking back through this series of memos from Stan to Sol Brodsky to other people, going from December of ’74 right up until before the convention opened… there were several things I thought, as a fan, that I might be interested in doing, and [Stan] said, “Naw, that doesn’t sound like a good idea.”

One of the panels I was suggesting was that we do something on the Golden Age of Marvel, when it was Timely. I was like, “Oh, you should get Joe Simon,” the co-creator of Captain America, and, of course, Kirby, and we should get Carl Burgos, who was the artist on The Human Torch in the old days. [Stan] said, “No, we don’t want to do that kind of thing. They work for other companies now. We should just stick to the current Marvel, as it exists [now].

We went through many, many iterations. And I can remember so much of the planning stages, that in my head, that takes precedence over the convention itself! There are many things I was suggesting, that I no longer recall how fully realized they were. We were like, “Oh, we have to have a Spider’s Web room, with the guy dressed like Spider-Man in it!” And I was suggesting that we have original artwork on the walls, from the recent issues of Amazing Spider-Man, so people could see that.

John Romita would pop in and do sketches for people there. There had to be webbing all over the place—make it seem more like a spider’s web. There was a guy there dressed as Spider-Man you could take pictures of, but I don’t really remember if we did it up like crazy!

At one point we wanted to have a coloring room, where the walls would be filled with black-and-white comic-art prints. People would go into that room and try their hand at coloring these things. I have the impression—from these thoughts from Stan—that the coloring room might make too much of a mess, so you’d have to ask someone else if that actually happened.

And one of my memories from the convention is where Stan gave his big speech, in a big room. He was introducing all of the Marvel Bullpen, and freelancers from those days. I remember—and I called him on this, years later, when I stood on a San Diego Comic-Con stage—that Stan introduced me as Steve Edelman!

DISHAROON: There were plenty of Steves in comics back then! [laughs] EDELMAN: You know, you don’t necessarily want to correct Stan [laughs]… so I didn’t do it there. And basically, I went back and forth with Stan, and responded to his suggestions about things we could add. By the time we got to the third or fourth iteration of me responding to Stan, I could see we’d go with people like Stan, Marie Severin, Flo Steinberg, Stan Goldberg, Herb Trimpe, and George Roussos.

It ended up changing and growing.

WELCOME TO THE BIG EVENT!

We’ve just arrived at Marvel Comic Con ’75! And we’ve got fan Ken Segal’s Marvel Con Membership Card! Take one look at this ticket (previous page), and next thing you know: You’re in the heart of ’70s fandom! Thousands of readers, for the price of a single ticket!

Now that’s one turnstile jump with style!

Ken, Then and Now Ken Segal, (top) during some fan-a-licious moments back in 1975, and (below) today, at work. Courtesy of Ken Segal.

12 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

Ken Segal was only ten years old that day—but we’ve got the memories of Modern Ken. These days he’s a Hollywood TV, film, and documentary audio engineer (look him up on IMDb!). Let’s let Ken’s words take us wandering through the Commodore Hotel landscape.

KEN SEGAL: They gave you a goody bag when you first checked in.

There’s a guy on eBay, I think his name is Hillshire, with a great collection of this [convention] stuff, including videos accompanying it.

He opens a FOOM package and goes through it, bit by bit.

DISHAROON: And there are [Marvel fan] Harold Parker’s scans, online…

SEGAL: He makes me drool, that guy! He was older; he knew to take care of [his Marvel Con ephemera]. I opened mine; I was putting stickers all over everything, I put them on my shirt… my FOOM card’s a little dog-eared because I put it in my back pocket…

DISHAROON: What survived your active childhood?

SEGAL: Certainly nothing on those walls in my photos. The card remains, the photos—the shirt, sadly, not… The program, I gave away. I got the program autographed that day by Stan, and [gave it to] a good friend who couldn’t make it; he was my best friend when I was a little kid.

DISHAROON: Truly, you are a Keeper of the Flame. If I were to judge from the photographs you sent me, you were pretty outgoing, even at ten!

SEGAL: I had no problem being alone. It was no big deal [back then], dropping a ten-year-old off [and saying,] “Okay, I’m going shopping… meet me back here at five!”

There was a moment I saw a kid getting caught stealing. He was about my age. The vendor had him by the shirt, screaming at him!

That kinda freaked me out.

I remember the movies at night! We actually stayed at the Hotel Commodore. They were showing the outtakes of King Kong, which at the time, when they showed the original 1930s [movie] on TV, they didn’t show Kong munching on the natives. They didn’t show Kong crushing people into the ground. So that was all on one reel, and they were showing it to us!

I can’t remember if I’m confusing the ’75 with the ’76 [Marvel Con], but they showed us that fan-made Spider-Man movie, with Kraven the Hunter as the bad guy. It’s considered the very first Spider-Man [movie]. Never got released… it wasn’t official. But the guy did a good job with it, and they showed it at the convention. I remember

Cosplayers and More!

More Marvel Comicon ’75 photos by and from Ken Segal: (top left) Order your customized Marvel model kit today! (bottom left) Devil-ladies Red Sonja and Satana. (top right) The Inflatable Hulk! (bottom right) The Monster of Frankenstein and Deathlok. the effects being blurry, slow-motion-y kind of stuff.

[Regarding Satana and Red Sonja cosplayers:] It was the weirdest thing! I got in the elevator with them, and they were being cutesy with me, to make each other laugh. When we hopped out, I was like, “Picture!”

And Captain Sticky! I remember him! I have some blurry pictures of the costume contest… Captain Sticky was the emcee. He was this obese guy with a superhero costume. [Editor’s note: Want to learn more about real-life “superhero” Captain Sticky? See BI #49.]

You see that inflatable Hulk costume I took pictures of? [In one of my pictures] we’re all clearly staring at [Hulk’s] chest, because there’s a porthole [where] you could see the guy inside. In another, we’re all to the side looking at him. You’ll notice, a lot of my pictures are aimed upwards, because I was a little kid. I’m barely five-eight now!

There’s a great picture of [an] amazing Man-Thing costume. I could barely see him; I had to hold my camera in the air to get it.

He may have been Mr. Quiet Fan in 1975, but a now-mature Harold Parker’s going to take us on his Marvel Con experience next.

DISHAROON: Harold, when did you first hear about Marvel Con ’75?

HAROLD PARKER: There were advertisements in the comics. They made a special offer where you got a discounted rate at the Hotel Commodore if you got the membership.

The convention definitely helped me get back into collecting. All the autographs I got, I just walked up to the tables—they had an autographs section. For example, I got Joe Sinnott’s… and Sam Maronie’s.

TRIPPING THROUGH POP CULTURE: LENS-EYE VIEW

Sam Maronie, author of the book Tripping Through Pop Culture, shares his experiences of the Marvel Con. SAM MARONIE: So nice. So hard to explain to people how different it was than the way it is today. This was my second trip to New York; that made it even a bit more exciting. I’d started, at that time, to do a little writing for Marvel, for their black-and white magazines, articles about films— those things no one ever read, eh? Mostly for Planet of the Apes [Magazine].

I was very full of myself when I went to that convention, because I felt like, “I’m part of the group now!” Misguided as that was, everyone treated me like I was. They insisted I come sit at the professional table with them, signing autographs, things like that. I was delirious out of my mind!

I remember Don McGregor there with P. Craig Russell—this was about the time they were doing Killraven. They were just standing in a corridor, and they had about four or five fans sitting around on chairs, having a conversation about the series. You could not do that now! It’d be total chaos.

The Bullpen was full of what I’d call “hippie types,” the typical stereotype of long, stringy hair, torn jeans. But the convention was so well run… everyone was on good behavior. There were no prima donnas. A lot of jostling for position to talk to the creators, but everyone was reasonably polite.

DISHAROON: What was the age mix of the audience like?

MARONIE: I saw mostly young adults, 14, 15. I was looking over [my con] pictures before I spoke to you. I took some crowd shots. It was mostly boys, not many females.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 13

If There’s a Will…

Courtesy of Marvel fan Will Alovis (seen today in center below), four unforgettable encounters he enjoyed at Marvel Con ’75.

The Red Sonja cosplayer, the artist known as Animal X (follow her on Instagram as officialAnimalX), tells BI, “The silly thing is, I made the ‘armor’ out of mirrors. Not very practical, but very, very shiny.”

I made friends that weekend at that convention Marvel or somebody might print a blurry picture of Stan Lee that I still have today. For example, artist Joe Barney, or something; they’d just entice me even more. [I thought,] who used to work at Continuity. Howard Chaykin. He wrote “Here’s something you could do that would be one-of-a-kind, the introduction to my book. We’re friends to this day. and help preserve what that person was like at that time.”

DISHAROON: How did you end up becoming the DISHAROON: What kind of camera did you use? photographer for the event?

MARONIE: I think it was a Yoshika. It was a largeMARONIE: Well, I just did it on my own! format, one-lens camera that used large negatives.

DISHAROON: Right on! That’s the spirit!

I also had a 35 millimeter. With each camera, MARONIE: I had to lug a couple of of course, you had a flash unit, since you’re cameras and a flash unit… spare batteries, taking pictures indoors and your film wasn’t and rolls of film. You take pictures, that fast, or you had limited use of existing you’re never sure how they’re going light. You had the target end with cords, to come out! and film we had to bring and unwind DISHAROON: Yeah, no digital previews as the roll was taken. It was pretty bulky. back then. You needed a caddie for DISHAROON: I find it cool that you seem everything [the equipment] you had! to have been very present. Trying to compose MARONIE: Oh, yeah! You had to keep a shot sometimes takes me out of the event, to some degree… Maybe some one eye on your equipment, especially in New York. of that was the informal nature of you sam maronie Being a classic movie fan, I always taking it upon yourself to be the convenenjoyed it when I’d pick up a magazine tion photographer… extremely cool! or a book and they’d publish some behind-the-scenes MARONIE: Well, two things helped me. First of all, I had photographs of the star and the director, chatting on not been that long out of journalism school. When I took the set. I always was very curious what those behind- photojournalism, we would have to go on the weekend the-scenes people look like. and take pictures to bring Monday for the instructor to That just made it all the more fascinating for me to take see. I remember time after time, him screaming at me, pictures of comic creators. Because every once in a while, “You gotta get closer! You gotta get closer!” So I got closer,

14 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

and it carried over to my professional work when I became an entertainment writer, because I would not only write the story, but I would take the pictures.

So, that’s what I did at conventions: I’d just get right in there. Some people would go, “Oh, you just went straight up to them”… but what were they going to do, execute me? That’s what you do! And you know what?

[Comics pros] loved it, they loved having their picture taken.

There was a lot of original art floating around.

Somebody from the Bullpen had brought over these…

I guess you’d call them “cover roughs,” for proposed covers. They were done in wash, mostly, I believe,

by Marie Severin. They were selling those for, like, five dollars apiece. I bought several of them and I still have them. They were really cool! Some were unused cover designs, where they’d decided to go a different way. I’ve got one for Amazing Adventures, starring the Beast. They said, “We can’t use this one, because he was falling off a ladder last issue.”

See, back then, Cecil, there was this group [of comics pros] trying to form a union, a professional group called GACTA? DISHAROON: You mean the group Neal Adams sort of spearheaded?

MARONIE: Right. They were selling these cover roughs to raise money for that group.

[The con] went by fast. Even Stan was pretty accessible! Of course, people would run up to him and, before you know it, what would start as two or three people would end up becoming 20 or 30. I remember he spoke at one time during the convention.

Back then, [Marvel] really wanted to get the rights to Star Trek away from Gold Key. Stan mentioned this in a kind of keynote speech. When he concluded, it was like he was a rock star! People bolted up the aisle towards him. I almost got knocked down by a couple of kids.

They had the fury in their faith, y’know! I got a picture of [Stan] signing one of the Marvel Con program books.

DISHAROON: You were probably there at all the panels, right?

MARONIE: Right. And Marvel had their own merchandise tables of that… tacky junk they used to sell in the comics. I’ve got a great photo of one of the workers in their special T-shirts that said “Marvel Con.” [He’s] got, like, a Goofy mask on, too.

DISHAROON: John Workman, the letterer—he went as a fan—he told me he got lots of 1950s comics he picked up for like, five bucks apiece…

MARONIE: Oh, yeah! That was very common.

DISHAROON: He also commented on the costumed actors there. He said the guy dressed as Captain America looked really great. He said that the guy who was playing Spider-Man—excuse me, or maybe it was Spider-Man himself, I don’t know, I wasn’t there!—he was really active in character, and into the poses. Really into the moves and mindset of bringing Spider-Man to the kids.

MARONIE: I understand there was a fabulous Thing costume, too. Supposedly, there’s pictures of Jack [Kirby] and the guy dressed as the Thing, together.

Were You There? (left) The ’75 Marvel Con’s schedule, from Phil Seuling’s 1975 Comic Art Convention newsletter.

Courtesy of Shaun Clancy. (right) Page 38 of the 1975 Mighty Marvel Comic Convention program. Courtesy of Harold Parker. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

PARKER! WHERE’S YOUR CAMERA?!?

So, we’re cruising down the Commodore Hotel hallway, and we bump right into no less than Stan the Man and Roy the Boy! Here’s fan Harold Parker’s encounter with Stan Lee and Roy Thomas: HAROLD PARKER: I went to the Empire State Building, which wasted like, three or four hours, because it takes forever to get there and back. I guess that was Saturday, because I took the train up. I didn’t have any of my materials with me, but I did have my badge with me, luckily.

As I went into the hotel, I was walking in the hallway on my way up to my room to go get all this stuff, for autographs, etc. I look up and I see a bunch of people walking in, and near Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 15

Con Swag (top) Con-goers could tote their booty in this plastic bag. (bottom) After the event, convention-related merchandise was available via mail order for those who couldn’t attend.

Characters TM & © Marvel, except for Conan © Conan Properties, LLC and Doc Savage © Condé Nast.

the front are Stan Lee and Roy Thomas. I knew right away who they were, because I’d seen their pictures. And I was like, What do I do?, because I’ve got to, you know, get [past them and the group]. So I just grab my badge and because I was so shy, I didn’t say a word. I just kinda stood in front of Stan Lee and handed him the badge—I didn’t even have a pen. But he had one, and so he signed his name and said, “Hello.” I didn’t even say anything back, because I was so starstruck.

He handed it back to me, and I just quickly turned around to Roy. He signed it, right under Stan’s name. He handed it back, and they kept going. I guess they were going to some other presentation.

And I was like, ‘I can’t believe I just bumped into Stan…”

DISHAROON: You did mention a small entourage…

PARKER: I don’t know if he was talking to Roy, or someone else in the group. I think the woman with him was Stan Lee’s daughter. I may be wrong on that, but I’ve seen pictures of his wife and daughter, and I got the impression that’s who it was. I don’t know why she was there with him, probably involved in some things. There were about four people there—they could’ve been other people I might know, I simply didn’t recognize them. I knew a few faces, but Stan and Roy would’ve been the two [I most recognized]. Jack Kirby, I would’ve known.

I’m amazed that I was brave enough to walk up to them! I was like, “Am I going to bother them, or…?” I was kicking myself after they walked away. To me, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and those guys were gods, creating so many stories I grew up with. I’m about six-foot-one, so I’m like this tall, skinny guy with not-super-long hair, but it was kinda long, holding this badge in front of them— heh! It was just a stroke of luck. harold parker

DUCK!

The convention whirls by a dazed Scott Edelman. He’s got his eye on a Dr. Strange cutout—he smiles and feels he’s got to get his picture made it in some day! He’s spent the whole weekend thinking about a popular letter writer and sometime-DC scripter, Irene Vartanoff—I mean, really smitten. As we learned in the 21st Century, they’ll still be happily married. Thanks to time travel, we know his fondest personal wishes will come true… but of course, we can’t interfere by telling Scott that.

SCOTT EDELMAN: Howard the Duck brings up another memory from Marvel Con ’75! Many of the Marvel Comics artists brought art, and put it there on the table for people to purchase. I picked up two pieces of original art for a ridiculously small amount of money. I have since sold them for a nice piece of money when I wanted to go to a convention in Australia and didn’t have the money. I paid $20 apiece for a John Romita cover to The Golem [a ’70s headliner in Strange Tales] and for a Val Mayerik pencil drawing of Howard the Duck surrounded by a lot of naked women. I didn’t want to get rid of them, but I did not want to go into several thousands of dollars of debt in order to go to the World Science Fiction Convention in Australia and decided… “Hey, I’ll sell them through Heritage Auctions.”

DISHAROON: You showed prescience, trying to establish a Golden Age panel at Marvel Con. A terrible process had already begun: Bill Everett had just passed away a couple of years before.

EDELMAN: [Bill] was at the first comic convention I attended. If I’m remembering right, it was the Phil Seuling 1970 Comic Book Fair.

PROS, CONS, AND WOMEN OF COMICS

DISHAROON: Speaking of panels, let me ask you about two! One was the “Fans Turned Pro.” I asked Marv Wolfman about it, and he said: “I just remembered we even had a Marvel Con ’75!” [laughter] EDELMAN: [laughs] My goodness.

Well, the interesting thing about the pro-fan panel was that Stan actually gave feedback on that. I really no longer remember how the panel ended.

But when I suggested it, I wrote it up like, “Why does Marvel seem to attract a larger number of fans than any other company,” since a large number of people came to the Bullpen to work out of a love for Marvel—to get the panel members, Roy Thomas, Tony Isabella, Doug Moench, Don McGregor, Marv Wolfman, and Len Wein. [Stan’s] 16 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

Marvel Con: The Sequel From the dealer packet for the 1976 Mighty Marvel Comic Convention, the program schedule, courtesy of Shaun Clancy. (We’ll time-travel to the ’76 Marvel Con in a future BACK ISSUE.) © Marvel Characters, Inc.

SEGAL: Have you seen the Bill Everett Sub-Mariner button I have? This guy freaked out and wanted to buy it from me. I didn’t want to sell it. I still have that button! I also had the [Sub-Mariner] ’60s fan club button. I only opened that ten years ago: I kept it sealed until then! It’s kind of like the Toy Story approach: a toy’s only happy when you play with it!

ENTER: THE KING!

feeling was, we needed to focus on what fandom means to the audience.

His suggestion was that we call the panel “The Importance of Fandom.”

Let’s let fans be on the panel, too! It’s an insight into Stan’s thinking: How do we open it up so it’s not about us, but about them? He also suggested, “Don’t let anybody talk too much,” [and that] the panel itself should be short, and mostly be about answering questions. Not exactly a panel suggestion, but guidance, as to what the convention could do to focus on its participants.

So it’s good we had that layering of the “Stan Lee-dom” over how the Con presents itself.

DISHAROON: It’s good you had a panel about “Women in Comics.”

Marie Severin, Flo Steinberg, Irene, Linda Fite… female professionals were still a tiny minority. I guess you could think of a few more who were around then: Ramona Fradon, and just around the corner, Wendy Pini, with Richard Pini, doing Elfquest… boy, have things exploded since then!

EDELMAN: Well, sadly, I can’t remember specifics, except that was a topic that was in the air at the time. I know that Phil Seuling’s July 4th convention had a “Women in Comics” panel. And Marvel had one of the greatest female artists of all time [Marie Severin] working for them, on staff, helping to design the covers. She would do sketches of so many of the covers, which were then handed over to an artist to draw the cover itself. [And] Glynis Wein—a great colorist, considered one of the best colorists in comics at the time.

Boy! If only that [panel] were done now, with iPhones in the audience.

The Time Machine totally screwed up the data when we tried this.

Chronal interference!

LO, THERE SHALL COME AN ENDING...

As things wind down at Marvel Con ’75, let’s circle back to Ken Segal…

DISHAROON: You had a wall full of collectible black-light posters.

SEGAL: Yeah! I bought a yellow one [at the con], and didn’t know it was a black-light poster (or know what one was). It wasn’t until long after that poster was gone I found out. In my possession, it never saw black light. Just a great poster!

DISHAROON: You took that picture of Deathlok and Frankenstein cosplayers?

SEGAL: Yeah! Someone commented on the posting that he showed it to [creator of Deathlok] Rich Buckler. That guy was impressed with that picture. He believed it to be the first cosplay. People [weren’t] showing up for the Costume Contest, but [were] dressed up like that, all day.

DISHAROON: Cosplay really became the entry point for women participating in comics conventions.

SEGAL: Women’s participation in the genre itself is a game-changer.

Maybe I would’ve stayed involved the first time if more women also liked it.

You know what amazed me then? They had this room with an armed guard, and in these glass cases were these first-edition Golden Age comics!

I’ve seen them on just on racks since then, but this was treated as a big deal.

I have pictures, but I don’t think I’ve ever posted them, because they flashed off the glass. The flash reflects, and you can’t see the actual book! I was a little kid, so that freaked me out. I don’t think I went back in that room!

DISHAROON: Did you talk to any of the other fans?

Some fans, like Harold, have rushed home to their jobs, but photographerat-large Maronie’s asking, before departure: What’s worth hanging around to Monday morning to see?

MARONIE: I was in the lobby fiddling with my camera. I looked up and I saw Jack Kirby by himself in the lobby. I’d seen enough pictures in the press to recognize him. Obviously, I was nervous—very intimidated.

I just burbled something out about how much his work meant to me, how much of a fan I was. He was very patient, put his hand on my shoulder. “C’mon, kid, let’s sit down for a few minutes.” We sat down in a couple of chairs in the lobby. He spent about 15 minutes just talking to me. He gave me what I found out later was his patented spiel about “ ‘These Kids.’ They don’t know how to write comics anymore!”

This whole dissertation. I sat there nodding my head, “Yes, sir, yes, sir.”

I found out later from some of the Marvel staff, he was good at doing that. [laughs] But he was so kind to me, and later on, I printed up some photos to send him. I had shot roll after roll of him sitting in this room, with his family, and he was signing these prints. A few weeks later, in the mail, I got back [from Kirby] a picture, signed, plus an original drawing of Captain America and Bucky. I have that to this day, and it’s on my wall. That’s the kind of guy he was, just so thoughtful.

You know, another story about Jack at the Marvel Con: He and Joe Sinnott had never met. You know, because they worked kinda piecemeal?

At that time, I was pretty friendly with Joe. When Joe told me that, I was stunned. I said, “Let’s fix that, right now!”

He was kind of intimidated by Kirby, too, so I took Joe right to Kirby’s room. They hugged each other like old war buddies, you know, and I snapped some pictures they used in magazines over and over again.

THE SPIRIT OF ’76

Do we dare begin to fast-forward and celebrate the Bicentennial by visiting the Mighty Marvel Comic Convention 1976? With Archie Goodwin and Roy Thomas, just chillin’ out, laughing about something that’ll seem impossible to remember one day? And Big John Buscema, sketching a formidable Conan the Barbarian from the inside out, just like you learn from him in his class?

No, funny how time slips away… even the best experimental platform has a habit of taking us back by a kind of quantum momentum to the present.

Not this visit… but we’ll see you again another time. Who knows what BACK ISSUE you’ll discover then?

Feel free to tip your Platform Operator. Come again!

Songwriter CECIL DISHAROON’s (shown here with Star Trek: The Next Generation’s Marina Sirtis) life-uprooting bus ride ended in SDCC International’s neighborhood.

Personable meetings with industry legends inspired Integr8d Soul Comics. Those talks continue on Creating Marvels on Podbean.

His Southern gothic novel I’d Go Anywhere With You nestles a vignette that energized his next BACK ISSUE story: Firestorm! Armed daily with plushies, his piano, and spare wits, Cecil tutors ESL students online.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 17

All characters TM & © their respective owners.

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by R o b e r t

Menzies

Write On, British Marvelites!

Letters pages from The Mighty World of Marvel #215 (Nov. 10, 1976).

All images in this article are courtesy of Robert Menzies, unless otherwise noted.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

British fans experienced Marvel differently than readers of the US editions, and, it seems, Marvel experienced a different type of reader in Britain.

Due to variations in format, there were inevitable dissimilarities in letters-column content between the two nations. Several themes repeated themselves, like the spotty availability of the US editions in the UK and what Marvel would do when the weekly British Marvels’ voracious printing schedule inevitably caught up with the monthly original editions. [Editor’s note: Marvel UK’s editions were mostly reprints of US material, published weekly and in black and white.]

Where US fans debated the lineup of superhero teams, British fans debated the lineup of superhero books—the publishing combination of The Avengers and Conan was a particularly contentious one, and the amalgamation of Planet of the Apes and Dracula Lives! was also an odd fit. Appeals for the creation of British hero were another regular feature.

There were also some surprises, like the identity of the biggest Marvel sex symbol and discovering that the British weeklies were being distributed in Australia and New Zealand, albeit with a time lag.

Most striking about this period is that while I have little access to Silver Age comic books for comparison, my substantial Bronze Age collection never seemed to have such combative, insulting, and eccentric letters pages.

Welcome to the British letters pages of the 1970s, where the adjective “batty” described the fans more accurately than the Bullpen!

MAD DOGS AND ENGLISHMEN

There were frequent comments about the volume of letters received on a weekly basis. Estimates were said to be thousands, although the only documented record I have seen places the figure closer to 1500, which is, of course, still a vast amount.

Inevitably, when it was competition time, that meant even more mail. Young fans would ask endearing questions about the size of Hulk’s feet, for example, as I am sure they did in Silver Age monthlies stateside. Older fans would often comment on Conan and recommend novels. Hands down, Planet of the Apes (POTA) received the most correspondence from female fans, which we will come back to later. Sergeant Nicholas Fury had his own letters page in his own comic as well as The Mighty World of Marvel (MWOM), which often included stories of the heroic adventures (and, on occasion, ridiculous misadventures) of grandfathers during the Second World War. In tune with the tired stereotype of the British, or at least the English, the letters pages were often quite eccentric, and it is worth sharing what are possibly the two greatest and/or battiest letters written by fans during the 1970s.

The first example comes from Cheshire’s C. Green and was published in The Avengers #133 (Apr. 3, 1976). In the letter he claims a scene reprinted from August 1971’s The Avengers #91 saved his life!

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 19

Dear Stan, I would like to say a big thank you to you. The reason? Because a month ago I was at my friend’s house and we decided to go conkering. So off we went to this tree and we started to climb it.

When we were at the top I reached out for a conker and fell. On the way down I could think of nothing else except the Avengers, and how the Panther landed in ish 91, page 19, frame 2. I managed to land in that position and was only stunned, whereas, falling from forty feet, I could have been killed. Thanks, Stan.

The second contender is Mark Broughton of Yorkshire. While I am confident that Silver Age Marvel also received naive requests about how to learn the mystic arts or make an Iron Man suit, the wording of this is just flat-out funny. This request appeared in Spider-Man Comics Weekly (SMCW) #37 (Oct. 27, 1973).

Dear Stan, Could you send me a Spider-Man suit and a radioactive spider and some science books to tell me how to make the webbing?

Don’t forget the recipe for webbing and the gizmo. I will send the money when I get these things.

WHAT COLOR IS IRON MAN’S HAT?

Eye-Popping Posters (top) The legendary Rafael Lopez Espi posters from spring 1974! This scan was taken from The Avengers #29 (Apr. 6, 1974), although the ad appeared in many titles many times. Iron-on transfers were a popular seller among UK fans in the early 1970s. (bottom left) Back page ad for iron-on transfers from The Avengers #6 (Oct. 27, 1973). (bottom right) Spider-Man patch offer from The Avengers #87 (May 17, 1975).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

20 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

The British readership was often ignorant of Marvel in a way that is hard to imagine today. They asked about character origins, what a No-Prize was, what “Excelsior” meant, who DC was, and whether Dr. Doom was a tin robot or a man. Unfortunately, the staff in London, hard-working and capable though they were, was not steeped in Marvel lore either and, in the early days, when faced with a question about a character they sent the letter to Alf Wallace, former boss of the line of Power Comics which had reprinted Marvel stories in the 1960s.

He would write a reply for them to print.

Sometimes, however, the London staff bravely but recklessly answered letters themselves, to unintentionally comedic effect. In SMCW #60 (Apr. 6, 1974) a reader asked about the colors of Iron Man’s armor.

(A fair question. Remember: the comics are in black-and-white and Spidey was the cover star.) The response is ridiculous: “His body is Red [sic], his arms and legs are yellow and his hat and boots and gloves are also red.” You can maybe forgive “gloves” for gauntlets, but “hat”?!? What??

Equally as barking mad is this reply from SMCW #35 (Oct. 13, 1973): “[When] Peter Parker was bitten by the radio-active spider all his senses were sharpened and so was his intellect. So we guess you could say that his I.Q. was increased.” So, that would be the proportionate intelligence of a spider, then?!

The biggest goof occurred during one of the many competitions of that era. In SMCW #7 (Mar. 31, 1973) there was a quiz to win a Spidey LP, with one question asking whether art, games, or science was Peter Parker’s best subject at college. Of course, Parker is a science genius, to make at least slightly plausible his invention of web fluid. However, according to the British staffers, Peter was an artist… and lots of fans missed out on winning despite sending in the right answer!

You can maybe—at a push—turn a blind eye to the ignorance of Marvel history demonstrated above, but there is surely no defence for revealing future plots. The letters page for SMCW #98 (Dec. 28, 1974) actually printed a spoiler about Gwen Stacy’s death, roughly 18 months before she would die in UK continuity!

One last editorial reply is worth reporting. In SSM #208 (Feb. 2, 1977), a fan writes in asking for a No-Prize based on something that appeared in SMCW #1 four years earlier! The question concerned Electro and water being a conductor, and the editor openly admitted that “We’ve had a quiet word with our electricity expert (he’s the chap who operates the lift [elevator]), and he says…” The lift operator rejected the No-Prize application!

SEX SYMBOL

Thor and to a lesser degree Iron Man were popular with female readers, but no one could hold a candle to a certain Roderick Andrew Anthony Jude “Roddy” McDowall, a.k.a. Galen in the Planet of the Apes TV series!

[T]hat voice is “huh, swoon, faint, unique.”

Susan Gilpin, Oxfordshire, Planet of the Apes (POTA) #82 (May 15, 1976)

Sour Note (top left) The splash from Mighty World of Marvel #117 (Dec. 28, 1974) that inspired arguably the greatest mistake spotting in comics history. (right) The error letter from MWOM #135.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

The best thing about Roddy (apart from his looks) is his voice and his lovely eyes.

Lisa Feyszenyi, Colney, POTA #96 (Aug. 18, 1976) As an anonymous Planet of the Apes reader wrote, “Nearly every week someone writes in saying how much they love Galen” (POTA #61, Dec. 20, 1975).

As editor Neil Tennant asked in POTA #55 (Nov. 8, 1975): “[H]ere’s another Galen admirer! How in the name of King-Kong [sic] does he do it?”

NO-PRIZES AND FFFs

There was little consistency or clear thinking behind the awarding of No-Prizes and Fearless Front-Facer awards on our side of the pond. One fan received a No-Prize for explaining the speed of light (SMCW #103, Feb. 1, 1975), and another won one by default when the London office couldn’t find an issue to check his claim (SMCW #88, Oct.19, 1974)! Sometimes they were given out for merely spotting spelling mistakes or other goofs, which opened a really large can of worms as these were common. Rarely did anyone offer an explanation.

When fans did, they were often dreadful excuses.

British readers saw probably the worst No-Prize explanation in the history of Marvel. “Why is Iron Man wearing his new armour when in the mag he’s still in his old suit?”

Explanation: “Iron Man is in his pyjamas.” This pathetic and nonsensical answer, which appeared in SMCW #95 (Dec. 7, 1974), won a No-Prize, although to be fair the writer, who shall remain unnamed to spare his blushes, offered three attempts, and that was easily the poorest.

In light of these slipshod standards, it is something of a relief that the British office, unlike the New York one, never actually sent out No-Prize envelopes.

In answer to many letters asking about “No prizes” [sic]. A “No-prize [sic] is a verbal order of merit awarded to any true believing Marvelite who deserves one. Unfortunately, we don’t send you any form of award such as a solid silver Mark II medal or certificate of honours, you just get letters behind your name… such as T.T.B. (Titanic True Believer) which no less means people of this standard in the ranks of Marveldom definitely deserve a No-Prize.”

SMCW #62 (April 20, 1974) Worse, they were even cavalier with the FFF—the highest and rarest award—and, for example, casually presented one to a fan in SMCW #95 (Dec. 7, 1974) for copying on some info about Iron Fist, written by Roy Thomas, which appeared in a US edition. Thankfully, this did not happen on more than a handful of occasions.

However, it wasn’t all Amateur Hour. Among all those criticisms, we also saw what may qualify as the greatest error spotting in Marvel history in MWOM #135 (May 3, 1975). Pete Taylor was easily one of the most intelligent and perceptive letter writers and this remarkable missive, while it doesn’t technically qualify as a valid No-Prize attempt as it doesn’t offer an explanation, is well worth reproducing. The splash page in question originates on page 4 of Fantastic Four #54 (Sept. 1966):

[T]he real point of this letter is to break a world record.

Four mistakes in one frame. Are you ready for this?

[MWOM] ish 117, page 29 [Dec. 28, 1974.]

1. Grieg’s Piano Concerto in A minor is opus 16, not 15.

2. World-famous pianists don’t use sheet music a performances.

3. You can’t play that concerto without an orchestra.

4. Even if you could, the pianist starts with both hands at the top of the scale, not one [at] each end.

It’s not clear who is responsible for these mistakes, although it depends on such specialized knowledge that you’d need to be as unforgiving as Dr. Doom to be critical. While the art is by Jack Kirby and Joe Sinnott, Kirby may have named the sonata in the margin notes he often left for Stan Lee, and then Lee, the editor as well as the writer of the dialogue, did not spot the error. If Kirby did not write a note, the blame lies entirely with Lee.

Spidey Fans Speak Out Letters pages from Spider-Man Comics Weekly (SMCW) #119 (May 24, 1975).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 21

Web-Slinger Wear (top) Back cover ad from SMCW #159 (Feb. 28, 1976) for a Spider-Man T-shirt featuring art by John Romita, Sr. (bottom left) Marvel punch bags ad from MWOM #229 (Feb. 16, 1977). (bottom right) The Captain Britain costume was offered in MWOM #242 (May 18, 1977).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

ACTION VS. ROMANCE?

Occasionally, there were amusing comments on the balance of action and romance. A frustrated William Saville of Nottinghamshire asked: “When will Peter Parker make it up to Betty Brant, because you’re wasting precious fighting space on her?” (SMCW #43, Dec. 8, 1973). Betty wasn’t James Clarke’s cup of tea, either: “I like Gwen Stacy a lot and I am glad Betty Brant is gone.

I don’t think an issue went by without the waterworks” (SMCW #76, July 27, 1974).

The opposite point of view was expressed by Abigail Sheppard, Milton Keynes, in SMCW #45 (Dec. 22, 1973): The one failing point of both Marvel and Spider-man [sic] comics, is unfortunately the fights and battles.

They’re so boring! What’s more, they usually take up almost four sides, which is a waste. I usually skip the pages on which the fights are and just read the bits which say who won.

Another reader who seems to be making a poor choice of reading material had their letter printed in SMCW #73 (July 6, 1974):

Why do you always print violent mags like Spidey, DD, Iron Man, Thor, and your other violent mags? I think they are too violent to be published and I wish you would stop publishing them. Even if you don’t stop publishing them, don’t have any violence in them.

The writer goes on to suggest more mags like Love Story, leaving the editor not sure if he’s pulling their leg or not!

IF YOU DON’T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY…

Although the British have a reputation for politeness, the opposite was often on show. “Dear Stan, I think your so-called super-heroes are terrible,” wrote Oliver Mollihan, London, in SMCW #11 (Apr. 28, 1973), and Katherine Donnaghie went so far as to say: “[W]hy can’t you horrible Americans leave Great Britain in peace and let us read our own British comics?” (MWOM #47, Aug. 25, 1973). A few falsely accused Marvel of inventing the content of letters pages.

Creators also had to duck for cover at times. Tossing civility aside, Arny from Sussex wrote: “Mike Esposito is behind [the covers], I notice, which accounts for the inking looking as if it was done with a 9-inch paint brush” (POTA #19, Mar. 1, 1975). In SSM #194 (Oct. 27, 1976), Simon Botham of Surrey asserted that “Frank Robbins … cannot draw to save his life,” while Bristol’s own ray of sunshine Rod Summers opined, “[T]hat awful Don Heck ‘artwork’—if you can call it that” (Spider-Man Comics Weekly #167, Apr. 17, 1976).

Brian Lynch, whom I am embarrassed to admit hails from my home city of Glasgow, ranted that the artists who created the new British covers were “terrible” and the art itself was “pathetic” and “baloney” (SMCW #167, Apr. 24, 1976). In POTA #95 (Aug. 11, 1976), an A. Jones of London complained about the deaths in Marvel stories, including Gwen Stacy. “Hey, who have you got working for you, Jack the Ripper? The Boston Strangler?

Or have you all just turned psychotic?”

The characters did not escape the sharpened pencils of British Marvelites, either. Iron Man in particular drew a lot of fire from younger readers. Peter Hinton of Leeds believed that “Anthony Stark is a fat communist pig!!”, Lance Allison of Kent asserted that “Iron Man… is as daft as a sorry duck on a Sunday night,” and Huntingdonshire’s Glenn Dakin added that Shellhead was “like a semidetached dipped dinosaur on stilts!” (respectively, SMCW #71, June 22, 1974; SMCW #84, Sept. 21, 1974; and SMCW #106, Feb. 22, 1975). At least, I suppose, the insults were imaginative, if somewhat unhinged.

Similarly, fans weren’t above bashing their peers.

Lincolnshire’s Barry Millard wrote, in a litany of criticisms and complaints in SMCW #168 (May 1, 1976), that Marvel should “Scrap the letters pages from all your comics.

So far no one has said anything worth reading.” Neil Austin in Sussex wrote in MWOM #233 (Mar. 16, 1977), “Dear Stan, Why waste all that valuable space printing all those corny letters from ungrateful jerks?” Aston Kaye and Gary Gray had a running argument about letters content that crossed over comics titles.

Conflict between fans, as you can see, was commonplace.

Neil Fisher was repeatedly accused of exploiting the delayed continuity in the British editions by copying content and No-Prize winning letters from the US editions. When asked to defend himself, he fell silent.

At their worst, the letters pages were menacing.

These jokers who play spot the mistake on some of your mags, well, I could wring their necks!

Alan Porter, Worksop, Notts, The Titans #26 (Apr. 17, 1976)

22 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

Dear Stan … I read in your first [POTA] letters page that some so-called Marvelites are dissatisfied with “Planet of the Apes.” This minority (I hope) should be severely punished.

Andrew Bennett, Leeds, POTA #23 (Mar. 29, 1975) [C]oncerning that … words fail me, person who wrote in SMCW, “Tolkien’s work would be great in comic form,” he should be lynched and you with him for agreeing.

C. W. Nobbs, Lancashire, SMCW #113 (Apr. 12, 1975) During this period British Marvel’s most prolific letter writer was Ivor Davis, and he actually received hate mail! The following excerpt is from POTA #105 (Oct. 20, 1976).

[O]nly an hour or so ago we were reading a missive from [Ivor Davies] in which he told us about a highly insulting anonymous letter he’d received.

But Ivor’s not just a busy letter-writer. He’s already ferreted out who Mr. Anonymous is. So-o-o-o… the moral is this… anyone seriously thinking of communicating anonymously with Ivor, be warned!

No one was safe. No one. From SMCW #53 (Feb. 16, 1974): “Dear Stan, If you don’t print this letter I’ll sock you!”

An exasperated Peter Judge, Marvel Mastermind of 1975, eventually took pen to paper. His letter, printed in SMCW #170 (May 15, 1975), appealed for détente.

I think there are too many private feuds going on, on your letters pages. I won’t name any names, ’cause that would make me as bad as them, but I’d like to say, “If you can’t say anything nice about someone, don’t say anything at all.”

He was ignored. Stephen Hirons, Merseyside, wrote in SMCW #197 (Nov. 7, 1976): Dear Mr. [Gerry] Conway … [I]n almost every issue you have killed someone with no apparent reason. …

You resort to death so frequently, it would appear to show weakness in your literary abilities. Furthermore, if you are so infatuated with death, I advise you to try it, so a man like [Steve] Englehart can take your place.”

Incredibly, after suggesting suicide, Hirons closed by saying, “Please, please, don’t get me wrong. There is nothing personal in this”! It is maybe just as well that British mail never reached the States and Gerry Conway never saw this.

With all these examples of what a British readership was like in the 1970s, one can only wonder if Marvel really knew what they had left themselves in for.

Furious Fans (left) The amalgamation of the short-lived Fury into MWOM would be a contentious combination. Ad from MWOM #257 (Aug. 31, 1977). (right) Star Wars fever hits Britain!

From MWOM #292 (May 3, 1978).

Hulk and Nick Fury TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Star Wars TM & © Lucasfilm, Ltd.

Thanks to Mark Sears.

ROBERT MENZIES has had letters printed in US and UK editions of Spider-Man, Avengers, Thor, Hulk, and Captain Marvel comic books.

He was also featured in a Stan’s Soapbox in 1997, where the Man awarded him a No-Prize!

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 23

TM

Steve Englehart took risks—with characters, stories, and editors. By the summer of 1987, Englehart had his own corner of the Marvel Universe. Simultaneously, he wrote the adventures of the West Coast Avengers, the Fantastic Four, and the Silver Surfer. Englehart excelled in using Marvel’s vast continuity to his advantage, steeping his stories in the history of the Marvel Universe as well as tying together disparate threads of older stories to create the new Marvel landscape. The Englehart-verse bounced around ideas and characters in these three titles. Stories from one would reference another to create an intricate cross-pollination.

No one character would get bounced around as much as Englehart’s own creation, Mantis. After a lengthy absence she appeared in the Silver Surfer’s title, then moved on to The West Coast Avengers, only to have the pages of The Fantastic Four resolve her story.

This article will showcase Englehart’s original plans for his WCA run including the unpublished stories for what would have been West Coast Avengers #38–43 and Silver Surfer #23 in 1988 and 1989, as well as some WCA plans that morphed into Fantastic Four stories. These “Greatest Stories Never Told” include the author’s original resolution to the steve englehart Mockingbird/Phantom Rider plot, a romance between Hawkeye and steveenglehart.com.

Mantis, confrontations with the Yellow Claw, Graviton, and Ultron XI, as well as the machinations of Kang and the resurrection of Thanos. After 30 years, Englehart’s never-told tales take the spotlight!

LISTEN TO THE MOCKINGBIRD

The West Coast Avengers had received their own ongoing series in 1985, written by Steve Englehart with art by Al Milgrom and Joe Sinnott. Milgrom had a dream: “I was hoping [at the time] for over 100 issues on the book.

Wanted to break Kirby’s record run on the FF.” Those early days featured team leader, Hawkeye the archer (Clint Barton), and his superspy wife, Mockingbird (Barbara “Bobbi” Morse). The team was rounded out with Tigra, the Feline Fury; Wonder Man, actor/stuntman/superhero; and Iron Man, the Armored Avenger. The “Lost in Space-Time” story arc, starting in issue #17 (Feb. 1987), threw the Avengers into the past. This included one of the Avengers’ most controversial storylines involving Mockingbird being stranded with the Phantom Rider in 1876.

Live in Living Black and White Although it’s repurposed on the cover of this very magazine, this dynamic original artwork— the unpublished version of the cover of West Coast Avengers #38 (Nov. 1988), penciled by Al Milgrom and inked by Mike Machlan— is shared here for you True Believers, courtesy of the always-amiable Mr. Milgrom.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

24 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

by D

a n Ta n d a r i c h

To Be Killed by Mockingbird Al Milgrom’s striking cover (with floating Avenger heads!) for West Coast Avengers #23 (Aug. 1987), spotlighting the pivotal scene where Mockingbird considers whether or not to spare the life of her attacker, the Phantom Rider.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

From Englehart’s website (www.steveenglehart.com): “The Phantom Rider drugged Mockingbird and had his way with her. Unfortunately for him, she was an Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. before she became an Avenger, and she didn’t play by Avengers’ rules. One of my all-time favorite issues” (West Coast Avengers #23, Aug. 1987). When Mockingbird finally confronts the Phantom Rider on a mountaintop, she gains the upper hand leaving the Rider dangling from a precipice. Mockingbird responds, “Drop dead!” as the Phantom Rider falls into the chasm below. Englehart portrayed “An Avenger who’s come to avenge!”

Mockingbird’s refusal to assist the man who drugged and raped her broke the Avengers’ rule about killing, in Hawkeye’s point of view.

Two opposing viewpoints would shatter both the team and the marriage in the months to come. A civil war within the Avengers had begun!

DAN TANDARICH: On your website you state that Mockingbird became your favorite of the group followed by Hawkeye. What makes Mockingbird and Hawkeye stand out for you?

STEVE ENGLEHART: I thought Mark [Gruenwald] had done a great job with them… the romance between them was fresh and convincing.

With him as the leader of the WCA, she was naturally propelled into a large role, and I always enjoyed the two of them together…

TANDARICH: West Coast Avengers #23 featured the epic Mockingbird/Phantom Rider confrontation. What still resonates with you about this issue?

ENGLEHART: …but Mark had made her a former S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, and in this issue, having fought her way back from being drugged and raped, she confronted her rapist as he hung from a cliff by his fingers. He thought she’d have to save him, but she was a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent… so she had no trouble letting him fall to his death. I was in total sympathy with her, and admired her as a character.

I thought this was a very powerful issue about a very powerful lady. (You may remember that I talk often third person such as: “This one is not what she was about Mantis writing her own story, and this was just al milgrom when she wore this name, but she invites you to call the same.) But it occurred to me, as the writer, that this her… Mantis” (Silver Surfer #4, Oct. 1987). was not the Avengers’ way, and there was a hell of © Marvel.

Mantis’ story originally ended in Giant-Size Avengers #4 (June 1975), a lot to be made out of that. So in the following issues, Mocky and Hawky, whom I liked so much together, broke up over it, and each but Englehart brought her back for his second round at Marvel beginning gathered his or her adherents. Old School vs. New School. in Silver Surfer #3 (Sept. 1987). The empathic Mantis melted the stoic exterior of the Sentinel of the Spaceways and they began a romance the ENGLEHART’S GODDESS likes of which the Surfer had never known. Mantis and the Silver Surfer One splinter in that wedge between Mockingbird and Hawkeye and became embroiled in the cosmic doings of the Elders of the Universe.

A massive explosion resulted in Mantis’ “death.” Although she had the West Coast team was Mantis, “the Celestial Madonna, a human who came to be a ‘goddess,’ ” according to Englehart. When Englehart the ability to transfer her essence into other plant bodies, this explosion first took over The Avengers in the 1970s, he wanted to tell more of was too big for her to pull herself back together, and it was assumed his own stories and not just follow in the footsteps of his writing that she had died. Mantis’ presence continued to be felt as the Surfer predecessor, Roy Thomas. The creation of Mantis heralded Englehart’s declared his love for her and vowed to search for her son. Then, surprise, storytelling style, and she was a character designed to upset the balance Mantis received her own backup story in Silver Surfer Annual #1 (1988). in the Avengers. “This woman’s goal in the future of the Avengers was She had no memory of the explosion or of her adventures with the simply to inject sex,” reveals Englehart. He appreciated kung fu and Surfer, but she did remember her teammates in the Avengers. the martial-arts style had a Mantis form, hence the name.

When Englehart first started working on the Silver Surfer title, he was From Saigon harlot to girlfriend of the Swordsman and then guest told that the character had to remain on Earth, but then policy shifted of the Avengers, Mantis caused internal dissention throughout Avengers and he was able to soar through the universe once more. His original Mansion. Along the way, destiny proclaimed her the Celestial Madonna, first issue of the earthbound Silver Surfer featuring Mantis was put aside a harbinger of Life and the mother of a child who would bring peace to but later was published in Marvel Fanfare #51 (June 1990). the world. The union of Mantis and the Prime Cotati, a member of a plant-like, peaceful alien race, would bring the world of humans (animals) TANDARICH: What is it about the character of Mantis that makes and plants together to begin a new era of peace throughout the cosmos. her so special to you?

Mantis had been trained to be perfect in body and mind and to be ENGLEHART: She took over her own story in her debut, taking me able to communicate with plant life, which she had been calling her places I wasn’t expecting, showing me the vast possibilities I could tap “empathic nature.” She also had the habit of referring to herself in the in my writing.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 25

No Mercy By having Mockingbird allow her foe to die in WCA #23, writer Steve Englehart lit an ethical fuse that sparked a civil war among the West Coast’s mightiest heroes. Art by Milgrom and Romeo Tanghal.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Back to events in the West Coast Avengers title,

by WCA #36 (Sept. 1988), Henry “Hank” Pym and Janet Van Dyne, the Wasp, were adventuring with the team. The formerly married couple seems to have come to grips with their relationship. But in the wake of their reconciliation, Mockingbird announces, “Clint and I are splitting up…!” In West Coast Avengers #37, the fighting between Mockingbird and Hawkeye comes to a boiling point centering around the “death” of the Phantom Rider and Bobbi not telling Clint.

Hawkeye: “Marriage may have its ups and downs, but they ought to be things a man and wife face together—not things one does to the other! The bottom line is, I can’t trust you, and I can’t run a marriage or a team without trust!”

Mockingbird: “We didn’t face the Phantom Rider together because I was left alone in his time period— so I did what I had to do, the way I was taught by S.H.I.E.L.D.! You swept me into the Avengers’ world, but I don’t think I ever belonged here in the first place!”

And with that, Mockingbird walks away. Tigra agrees with Bobbi and states, “I love the Avengers, Clint, but my nature says killing prey is sometimes necessary!” Moon Knight (Marc Spector), actually the Egyptian god Khonshu, the Taker of Vengeance, makes the same decision. Hawkeye stands firm believing that Avengers don’t kill. The team is split asunder! Wonder Man, the Scarlet Witch, and the Vision stay with Hawkeye. Mockingbird suggests forming a new team with Tigra and Moon Knight. Meanwhile, amidst the chaos, Mantis makes an unexpected appearance to Hawkeye’s group and asks the Avengers for help in getting her memory back.

TANDARICH: Steve, here’s a quote from you from BACK ISSUE #76: “I did want to write more about Hank and Jan, but especially Jan, going forward. Just before I got bounced, I had split the West Coast Avengers into two teams, and I wanted to explore, as part of that, how it would affect the East Coast Avengers. The whole question I was working towards was, ‘What constitutes an Avenger, exactly?’ and Jan, as the leader of 26 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

the East Coast Avengers whose husband was part of the West Coast Avengers, was going to be a key player in that.”

Do you remember any specific details about this?

ENGLEHART: Jan was adamantly on the side of Traditional Avengers.

She’s practical and tough, but she’s Old School all the way; she would have her personal opinion (no killing) and her duty to the team she was leading (no killing). While good old wishy-washy Hank would have fallen in with Mocky’s group.”

West Coast Avengers Annual #3 (1988) had the two teams investigate at the South Pole, but for different reasons. Guest-stars Bill Foster (Black Goliath/ Giant-Man II) and the Black Panther were thrown into the mix. But something seemed strange with this issue. Mantis had a few panels where she looked to be speaking but no dialogue balloons appeared. She is also not colored in one panel, leaving her to blend in with the white surroundings.

In a flashback panel, the Inhuman Crystal appeared with the Fantastic Four, citing FF #318–319 (Sept.– Oct. 1988), but she had been removed from the team by the time that adventure came to pass.

Behind the scenes, storm clouds gathered.

West Coast Avengers #38 was a fill-in issue by D. G. Chichester and Margaret Clark. Hawkeye’s team appeared in the opening and closing panels.

DIVERGENCE

“Upset!” was the title of Steve’s last published adventure with the West Coast Avengers in issue #39 (Dec. 1988), as well as an apt description of his mood after he saw the finished product.

Englehart’s script only appeared in the first half of the book. Englehart believes that the second half was scripted

by Ralph Macchio, but Macchio doesn’t recall writing it. Englehart was waiting for the pages so that he could continue to dialogue the rest of the story, but they never arrived. He discovered the switch when he saw it on the newsstands.

WCA #39 begins with some turbulence as Hawkeye lets the mention of his wife interfere with his piloting skills. Mantis and Hawkeye begin to share a bond over their situations. Meanwhile, Mockingbird’s team plus Bill Foster arrive at Newark Airport as the East Coast team won’t let them use their landing base since they are no longer Avengers. When Moon Knight (Khonshu) remarks how Bill Foster is not “our kind,” he clarifies, “I meant that he’s not ruthless enough to work with us!” Mockingbird replies, “I wouldn’t say ruthless! Just practical!” Khonshu knows they will have to be ruthless to save Mockingbird from the Phantom Rider.

And, on cue, the Phantom Rider attacks! When Moon Knight is knocked unconscious, Khonshu appears and scares off the Rider.

Back in New Jersey, the Scarlet Witch senses “an intense burst of evil” in Newark. The scene then changes to Connecticut, where Hawkeye, Wonder Man, and the Vision help Mantis search her house for clues to jog her memory. None are found, so the next stop is halfway around the world where Mantis grew up: Vietnam.

And it is here where the story veers into two directions, the published version (#39) and Englehart’s original, unpublished version, which would have been issue #38 if the fill-in issue would not have been used.

Let’s begin with the version that saw print, West Coast Avengers #39, and the second half of the story. Mantis, Hawkeye, Vision, and Wonder Man investigate the next place that may hold a clue to Mantis’ missing memories, Vietnam. Not only did she grow up there but the temple grounds were also where she married the Prime Cotati (the highest form of tree-like being) who inhabited the body of her former love, the Swordsman.

As the Swordsman’s grave rumbles, the body of Mantis’ dead lover emerges. A battle ensues, ending when the Swordsman/Cotati flings his blade and impales Mantis in the stomach with a plant-rending sound effect “SLLLP!” No blood dripped, only sap.

And for the second time, another body rose up out of the ground—the true body of Mantis, which laid there in suspended animation since her marriage.

In contrast, the consciousness of Mantis inhabited a plant simulacrum, an ersatz Mantis left injured.

When she and the Prime Cotati departed the planet, their physical bodies remained behind and were buried by the Priests of Pama, the caretakers of the Cotati on Earth, while only their spirits traveled to the stars.

Once their child was conceived, her spirit-self traveled back to the planet to give birth and to raise it. She needed a body and created one out of vegetation in order to make an appropriate womb for the hybrid child.

Mantis raised him and nurtured him as far away from the life she had known as an Avenger in order to provide a peaceful upbringing. Once it came time for his plant heritage to be nurtured, she was no longer needed.

Mantis then left her plant form and searched the cosmos for new adventures, where eventually she encountered the Silver Surfer. That friendship/romance led to an encounter with the Elders of the Universe and a battle that ended with her “dying” in a massive explosion that took her memories away and sent her hurtling back to Earth where she automatically created another plant body for herself. When asked if she was still the Celestial Madonna, the Prime Cotati responded, “You will always be the Celestial Madonna, Mantis.

But never more need you concern yourself with our seedling. The child no longer needs a mother.”

These words would be the basis of conflict for stories to come. Mantis chose to stay in Vietnam and “meditate upon what she has gained and what she has lost” while her teammates left her in peace.

THE WCA YOU DIDN’T SEE

But that was the published version, with the ending Englehart didn’t write! Now, let the trumpets sound and the cry ring forth—Avengers Assemble! BACK ISSUE presents to you Steve Englehart’s original plans for the West Coast Avengers, beginning with the second half of what would have been issue #38.

Mantis and the boys are off to Vietnam and the Temple of Pama, where they find the Swordsman’s gravesite. Mantis explains that her German father was Libra of the criminal organization Zodiac. Her mother was a Vietnamese woman whose brother pursued evil as the crimeboss Monsieur Khruul. Hawkeye says that they fought guys who said they worked for Khrull (WCA #11). Mantis says that it’s not possible because he’s dead.

Next stop: Hong Kong. Villains Razorfist, Shockwave, Zaran, and their mastermind, the Yellow Claw, surround them. The Yellow Claw feels that his honor was impugned

by Hawkeye saying that his men attacked him. Regardless, a fight ensues.

Avenger vs. Avenger!

Original art scan from Al Milgrom, the image’s penciler, for 1988’s West Coast Avengers Annual #3, inked by Mike Machlan, part of Marvel’s event “The Evolutionary War” (as is evidenced by the giant cranium of the High Evolutionary). Guest-starring Bill Foster— Giant-Man—the West Coasters take sides!

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 27

The WCA’s Yoko Ono The shadowy Mantis tears apart the team on the cover of West Coast Avengers #37. Shown at top, courtesy of Al Milgrom, is the original version of the cover (with Mike Machlan inks). When comparing it to the published version at bottom, note that Al changed the poses of Tigra and Wonder Man, turning their backs away from the Avengers’ resident goddess.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

28 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

When asked if he was laying the groundwork for the Yellow Claw almost 30 issues earlier, Englehart responds, “Not at the time, but making connections when they present themselves is part of my thing.”

Directly from Englehart’s script, it reads: “The thing to show here is Mantis’ kung fu vs. kung fuers’ kung fu, and WM [Wonder Man] & Vizh [Vision], working together against WM-worthy power of Claw and others’ powers.” During the fight, Zaran and Shockwave continue with the idea that they never fought them before, but Razorfist slips up and exposes that he did.

With that revelation, the Yellow Claw stops the fracas.

He does not tolerate deception among his men and, using his powers of hypnotism, orders Razorfist to kill himself. The razor-fisted villain struggles to disobey the order. With that same power Claw stops the Avengers in their tracks and forces Razorfist to slice his throat (off-panel). To Be Continued!

West Coast Avengers #39 (unpublished version): Claw explains that Monsieur Khruul was just a cover for his own schemes. The hypnotized Avengers have no choice but to listen. Claw was impressed with Mantis’ fighting skills and goes in for a kiss. Mantis sends him flying with a martial-arts throw. Shocked, the Yellow Claw pulls out his Satan claw and attacks, but Mantis lands a blow. Mantis rallies and yanks off his glove with a judo flip and shocks him, which in turn loosens his control over the enthralled Avengers. Yellow Claw escapes, but vows revenge. Hawkeye and Mantis show a little extra happiness towards each other. When asked how she managed to defeat Claw she answered that she acted without conscious thought and willed the pain of the glove away. Hawkeye says, “I’ve hung out with Thor, lady, but it’s still awesome having a goddess on my team.” Mockingbird, who?

An unpublished cover for WCA #38 by Al Milgrom and Mike Machlan has been unearthed from the Milgrom collection featuring the Yellow Claw and this team of Avengers, and has finally seen the light of day as the cover of this edition of BACK ISSUE. Milgrom says of this cover, “I’d wanted to draw the Claw since acquiring the four-issue run [of the Yellow Claw Marvel series] from the ’50s, and obviously I loved the Steranko take, since I stuck close to it visually.”

Scene shift to Times Square, New York City, and the original resolution to the Mockingbird/Phantom Rider plot. Moon Knight confides in Mockingbird and Tigra and reveals, “I’m a god.” To prove it, Khonshu rises out of Moon Knight’s body. Mockingbird said she knew there was something different about him.

Tigra just wants to know which one she has been kissing. Khonshu reveals to the Feline Fury that although it began with Marc it then switched to Khonshu. He wanted to experience life as an Avenger!

And he would have kept his secret except that he finally knows what has been terrorizing Mockingbird.

He now understands the mystery of the Phantom Rider. He’s more than just a ghost—he’s “a demon-god of a native religion.” That means this kind of fight requires a god, a god like Khonshu, to fight him and end the curse haunting Bobbi.

Unexpectedly, Wanda, the Scarlet Witch, arrives.

She sensed magick and came to investigate, not thinking it had anything to do with the three of them.

Even though she sided with Hawkeye, she knows that freeing Mockingbird from the Phantom Rider is her job as an Avenger. When Mockingbird says, “You mean you’ll help?” Wanda responds with a smile and says, “Avengers Assemble!” So with the mission decided on and the players ready, Khonshu summons a parallel dimension to New York City.

Englehart’s script continues: “We proceed with classic encounter between two gods—massive occult battle with any Ditko thing you want thrown in, tho try to keep to Egyptian or Comanche motifs.” The Phantom Rider summons the spirits of Comanche warriors to attack the ladies. The Scarlet Witch fends off as many as she can but two get through to Mockingbird and Tigra.

The script continues, “Mock is shown to be a great hand-to-hand fighter (the Comanche has a knife, she has her staves). In the end, she has guy pinned with staves across his throat, but he won’t stop trying to get free—she thinks this is how I threatened Ham [Hamilton] Slade with death in #32—he was human so he knew enough to surrender—this ghost doesn’t and so—she kills it by pressing down. And she’s got no moral qualms as she turns to see blood-spattered Tigra crouched over disemboweled dead Comanche— they made the same decision.”

In the battle of the gods, Khonshu gains the upper hand and wins. Khonshu knows now exactly how dangerous this spirit is so he calls up another Egyptian god, Set, the Lord of Evil, to take the Phantom Rider away and torture him forever. Khonshu, Mockingbird, and Tigra all agree they can live with his punishment.

Wanda voices her disapproval, but Khonshu pulls rank as only a god can. Phantom Rider pleads against his punishment, but Mockingbird has no remorse. Tigra says, “You want to threaten torment, you should receive it.”

Wanda wants absolutely no part in any of it. Set absconds with the ranting, struggling ghost.

Back on Earth, Wanda says she can sympathize with Bobbi but does not like what she has done. The Scarlet Witch continues, “I’m going back to L.A. to be on Hawk’s team, and I’ll tell him you’re free, but for your sake I won’t say how.” Mockingbird’s response, “Well, what does she know? We’re on the side of a god.”

TANDARICH: In the unpublished script for WCA #39, Mockingbird, Tigra, and Moon Knight (Khonshu), along with guest Avenger the Scarlet Witch, take on the spirit of the Phantom Rider. Any general impressions for what was to come next for this team?

ENGLEHART: It was the last mention in that time frame, and the next time frame was about the other team… and there was no time frame after that. I never think farther ahead than I need to, so I hadn’t created any specific adventure for them yet. I should mention that Wanda was in there because she was also a strong, kick-ass lady.

TANDARICH: At the end of the unpublished WCA #39, both teams end with a god (Khonshu) or a goddess (Mantis) on their team. Was there ever going to be a confrontation between both teams?

ENGLEHART: Absolutely. That’s where I was going.

The Avengers who thought it was okay to kill vs. the Avengers who didn’t. I was expecting to have this subject split the East Coast team as well, so that new coalitions of Avengers came into being based on belief rather than geography. As before, I didn’t have a specific ending in mind; it was enough to set that up and see where it went.

And then, of course, the only thing that went was me.

An Upsetting Issue West Coast Avengers #39 (Dec. 1988) was Englehart’s last on the title—and the story was changed mid-issue, with Tom DeFalco re-scripting part of the tale, including page 25’s shocking impalement of Mantis. Art by Milgrom.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 29

NO ORDINARY ROMANCE

Tom DeFalco (plot) and Ralph Macchio (script), with Tom Morgan on art duties, tied up the strings to the Mockingbird storyline in the published West Coast Avengers #41 (Feb. 1989). Daimon Hellstrom, demonologist and self-proclaimed Son of Satan, joins Mockingbird, Tigra, and Moon Knight to end the menace of the Phantom Rider. Hamilton Slade, the current Phantom Rider, blacks out whenever he goes into action. Hellstrom begins an exorcism and it reveals that Hamilton isn’t possessed by one Phantom Rider… but two! Both Carter Slade, the original Phantom Rider and also Hamilton’s great, great uncle, and Lincoln Slade, Hamilton’s great, great grandfather, the second Phantom Rider and the one who has been terrorizing Mockingbird, materialize before the group. Lincoln lunges for Mockingbird, but Carter defends her. Daimon then releases Khonshu from Moon Knight’s body so spirits can battle spirits.

Carter and Lincoln Slade fight on. Carter explains that he was chosen by fate to become a champion and “bringer of swift justice to the lawless!”

Fate did not choose Lincoln and he paid the price for it. Carter continues, “Whosoever the gods would destroy… they would first make mad.”

Carter defeats Lincoln and Hellstrom banishes the evil Phantom Rider to a netherworld. Hamilton accepts the fact that he is the chosen one for this time period, and Carter stays on to reside in his body as a force for good. Mockingbird’s team splits up as a result of this adventure.

West Coast Avengers #40 (unpublished version): Graviton returns! The trip to Asia revealed no clues about Mantis’ memory loss. Hawkeye’s team settles into the compound. The Scarlet Witch and Vision move in with the twins.

The team leader seems happy having extra room now that Mockingbird’s out of the picture, but the others don’t believe him. During the move, Wanda shows the others her new TURINO XL laptop computer.

She’s very satisfied with it as it’s “the home computer of choice.”

To keep up with the Vision, she used the computer to stay on top of things. Englehart’s note in the script, “But, folks, TURINO XL anagrammed is Ultron XI—the nasty robot who will return soon.

So design the laptop to be visually interesting, cause we’ll see a lot of them in the next few months.”

Suddenly, a meteor whizzes overhead. Wonder Man offers to check it out and flies off towards the mountains. Out of the smoldering rocks comes Graviton on the attack! Wonder Man lets loose, but Graviton is just too powerful. The team goes into action. Arrows and light beams have no effect on the villain.

Mantis manages to make it through his defenses and lands a blow but he has made himself

Mantis Preview From Marvel Age Annual #3 (1987), a Silver Surfer preview page starring Mantis and the Elders of the Universe. Art by Marshall Rogers and Joe Rubinstein.

Scan courtesy of Dan Tandarich.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

30 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

extra-dense. Wanda’s hexes make the villain momentarily lose control of gravity, but his time in space has given him more mastery over his abilities than ever. Commanding all of his power, Graviton pulls the surrounding mountains together, crushing the team ever closer, and burying them deeper and deeper inside the earth. He rants, “They sent me flying into space, and now I’ll push them down into the earth.”

All five Avengers are now dangerously close to each other. Wanda could try a hex but has no room to do so. Mantis, with total control over her body, manages to find the space Wanda needs by getting ever closer to Hawkeye, who isn’t complaining. The hex that Wanda throws pushes back against gravity just enough to put a plan in motion. The Vision, who was knocked out, awakens and reduces his density and floats back to the surface. The Vision pushes his density-altering powers to their limits against Graviton’s force of nature. Vision begins to gain the upper hand when the Avengers burst free, thanks to Wonder Man’s strength. After using so much energy, a simple arrow to Graviton’s face knocks him out.

The script reads: “Hawk, battered like all others, is still glad this new team came thru—and now Mantis comes over and kisses him—says Avs [Avengers] still have it, after all these years. He looks at her—then pulls her to him and kisses her back. By God, he’s not gonna mope over Bobbi any more. Vizh Wanda WM see it and wonder—but Wanda says to Vizh better him than you this time.”

TANDARICH: The unpublished scripts speak for themselves, but any thoughts on the romance of Hawkeye and Mantis?

ENGLEHART: Mantis was the goddess of life, and she was comfortable with men, so naturally she and Hawkeye (the non-killer) would find common ground.

Once again, I’d have seen where that went, but I wouldn’t expect that these two would end up together.

I’m pretty sure that Hawky and Mocky would reconcile… someday.

But not immediately, by any means.

CELESTIAL SEASONINGS

Before they leave, Wanda senses something but she doesn’t know what. Back to Englehart’s script: “And we look down below them, down in the earth, and see the huge shadowy form of a sleeping Celestial buried down there (it’s the Celestial the Kangs are interested in in ECA [East Coast Avengers] just now, but none of us knows that—check with Walt [Simonson, then-Avengers scribe]: I’d rather show at least part of him than keep him entirely in shadow, but it’s Walt’s call).”

This scene between heroes and villain didn’t go totally unpublished. Fantastic Four #322 (Jan. 1989) opens with the splash intended for the West Coast Avengers. The battle against Graviton plays out using the Thing, Ms. Marvel II (Sharon Ventura/ She-Thing), and the Human Torch. At the moment, the Fantastic Four are the Fantastic Three as Crystal had just been forced off of the team

by Marvel editorial. Instead of mountains crushing around the heroes, they get buildings. The two Things save the Torch from being crushed between them. This time the Thing encourages the Torch to “flame on” between them since their orange-rock durability should protect them. The Human Torch breaks free and heads to the surface “to give Grav-man a rematch!” Instead of the Vision taking on the villain in

Catching Up Englehart brought readers up to speed with Mantis’ recent history on page 29 of West Coast Avengers #39.

Original art scan courtesy of its artist, Al Milgrom.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 31

This One Has Returned Page 1 of the Steve Englehart/Ron Lim/ Randy Emberlinproduced Mantis backup tale, from Silver Surfer Annual #1 (1988).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

the unpublished #40 we get the Human Torch versus Graviton in the published FF #322. The flaming hero pushes his powers to their limits and proclaims, “Fire is as much a part of nature as gravity!” And instead of an arrow to Graviton’s kisser, the Thing gives him a punch to the jaw. Two different teams, one similar outcome.

Graviton’s a two-time loser.

West Coast Avengers #41 (unpublished version): The splash page opens with Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Wonder Man, and Mantis in downtown Los Angeles taking on a gang, some of whom can change into monsters. Strange things have been happening and one gang member says that’s why they got out of NYC. Wanda uses her TURINO XL to run the statistics.

A mystic named Necrodamus, searching for power, watches. Both Necrodamus and time-traveling conqueror Kang want Mantis. Kang pursues a weapon that was created by the Dreaming Celestial, who slumbers under the Diablo Mountains in California. A time bubble prevents time travelers from entering. But to go back to 1988 when the Celestial is still sleeping would allow Kang access to the Celestial’s weapons cache.

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The script reads: “Kang says after joining with Cotati, she [Mantis] is repository of vast powers he can use— Celestial Madonna against Celestial.” Vision gets out an energy signal and location to Wanda’s TURINO XL. The team assembles and Vision tells them what he knows of Kang’s plan. Hawkeye knows what it means. The original West Coasters were there when the fracas started with the Dreaming Celestial (Eternals limited series #12, Sept.

1986), so it’s off to the Diablo Mountains. Kang is already at the doorway to the Celestial that he dug out of the rubble. He turns to an imprisoned Mantis and tells her his plan—“Either win Celestial over or kill it, but either way deny weapon to other Kangs.” Kang defeats the heroes and when he turns to Mantis to put his plan in motion, he sees that she has vanished! To be continued…

West Coast Avengers #42 (unpublished version): The splash page opens with Hawkeye’s team of Avengers facing Kang as the villain accuses them of freeing Mantis.

Neither side knows what happened to her, but all kinds of strange things have been occurring all over the United States but especially in New York City. This refers to Marvel’s “Inferno” storyline, which featured such mayhem as a demon invasion of NYC. Englehart’s script continues: “As a witch, I’d add that NYC is clearly the locus of this, but such intense disturbances can affect magickal substrata all over the world.” Using her mystic sense, Wanda knows that Mantis was taken away by magick, but doesn’t know by whom. Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and the Vision investigate into the disappearance and find Mantis in the wilderness on Vancouver Island.

Silver dagger dangling above, the Martial Arts Mistress lay trapped on a ceremonial slab. An hourglass marks the time.

Necrodamus laughs as the team finds out that it was he who was behind the abduction. The Scarlet Witch has gone toe-to-toe with Necrodamus before, so she takes charge.

The shriveled villain reveals that the energies released when the dagger drops on Mantis will win him favors with the gods of limbo granting him power and a great, big body.

The hourglass is counting down until certain stars are in alignment. An invisible force field grows around Mantis.

Necrodamus slams Wanda against it. Another note from Englehart’s plot: “Vizh and Hawk are both pissed cause their ladies are in trouble, and redouble their efforts, doing so well they threaten to win.”

Necrodamus retreats into the invisible force field, gleeful at the impending alignment. As the last grain of sand drops through the hourglass, the villain releases the dagger, but it does not fall. Perplexed, he tries to force it down.

Still nothing. His body starts to shrivel even more, losing all power. In answer to Necrodamus’ confusion, Hawkeye tells him to look up. All of the stars are in proper formation… except one! Wonder Man pushes against the star.

Hawk goes to untie Mantis. The notes in Englehart’s plot add, “They embrace like the lovers they are.” Up in space, Kang flies off to scheme anew since his plans for Mantis have been ruined. Wonder Man heads back to Earth, until his flight is waylaid by an enraged Silver Surfer.

But before that unpublished story continues, let’s rewind the Marvel chronology and return to the Kang/ Necrodamus dust-up, only this time using another title that Englehart wrote at the time, the published Fantastic Four #323 (Feb. 1989). This time, instead of the West Coast Avengers in downtown L.A., we have three members of the FF (Human Torch, Thing, and Ms. Marvel II) surveying the craziness of Inferno in NYC. The intrepid threesome encounters Mantis on the Manhattan streets.

Mantis wants the FF to help her rescue her son since their exploits into space and beyond are legendary and she can no longer create new bodies and follow her antagonists into the cosmos. Kang’s motives remain the same as in the unpublished WCA script.

Unfinished Business Writer Steve (as “S.F.X.”) Englehart moved Mantis’ saga, intended to run in his WCA stories, into his published FF adventures. Original art to Fantastic Four #324 (Mar. 1989) by Keith Pollard and Romeo Tanghal, both of whom signed this page. Courtesy of Dan Tandarich.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Mantis explains what being the Celestial Madonna is all about: “A woman chosen to represent Earth’s humanity… who joined with the highest representative of an intelligent race of plants to create a new form of life—a life which would lead both species into the future!”

And with that, Kang attacks them and captures Mantis.

A showdown between the FF and Kang takes place at Mount Diablo, the resting place of the Dreaming Celestial. During the fight, the Torch’s powers flare up totally out of control. Kang goes to gloat over Mantis only to see that she’s gone! (Déjà vu.)

SPECIAL S.F.X.

Englehart wrote the published Fantastic Four #324 (Mar. 1989), only this time his byline read, “S.F.X. Englehart.”

Again, we have two opposing sides wondering what happened to Mantis. Both Kang and the FF arrive in NYC to witness Necrodamus about to sacrifice Mantis.

This time planets, not stars, need to align.

Necrodamus rants, “You are unique, Mantis! For so many schemes you have no substitute! The gods I seek to serve reward the destruction of any life, but for destroying the woman who merged the two major kingdoms of life, plant, and animal—they will grant me any desire!”

Meanwhile, Thing, Ms. Marvel, and the Torch cannot penetrate the invisible barrier that contains Mantis. But in this version of events, Ms. Marvel conspires with Kang.

Her plan involves the Human Torch going with Kang to foil Necrodamus’ plot in exchange for help with Johnny’s out-of-control flame powers. Kang transports the Torch 120 million miles away to Mercury. With one of Kang’s devices, the Torch pulls the planet out of alignment, stopping Necrodamus’ plan. However, Kang lied to the Torch about helping him and takes off, leaving him stranded an unimaginable distance away from Earth.

Cut to the Silver Surfer, feeling a disturbance with a planet out of its proper arrangement. From the story itself comes these lines: “For months, the Silver Surfer has believed his lost love, Mantis, dead! Next month in FF #325—When You Wish Upon a Star...”

Fantastic Four #325 (Apr. 1989) used the S.F.X. Englehart byline again. The Silver Surfer finds a helpless Johnny Storm floating in space after Kang left him stranded.

When the Torch mentions Mantis, Surfer makes a beeline to Earth. The reunion is ecstatic. Surfer: “You may rest assured that I will devote my life to helping you recover your son, Mantis! And whatever the state of your powers, my power cosmic will protect you—and keep you by my side, forever!”

Suddenly, in the sky above them, appears Kang, the Cotati, and a floating sapling that is Mantis’ son.

The Cotati plead with Mantis to accept that her son must remain with them for the good of all the universe. Cotati: “When we chose to concentrate our mentality, we abandoned the ability to move… but he has inherited that ability from you! He will be our ambassador to the universe.”

Kang is there for revenge against Mantis and, allied with the Cotati, he knew she would refuse to accept the

plant-creatures’ terms. The attack against her, the Fantastic Four, and the Silver Surfer begins with the Priests of Pama, those who trained Mantis. However, her years have included time in space developing her coordination.

Mantis’ mental powers return, and the Cotati and Kang retreat. Mantis knows that the only way to rescue her son is to go to their chosen realm—“the realm of pure thought—and in all the universe, only this one has the training to follow them there!” With a final kiss to the Surfer, she departs the physical plane and sends her pure consciousness to go after the Cotati and rescue her son.

She drops limply in his arms. Losing his love twice, the Surfer flies above into the night.

Englehart planned that issue as his send-off to Mantis.

If he was going to have editorial interference, then he wanted to do what damage control he could for the character and leave her in a place where she would be left alone. That was in the published comic books.

Mantis’ journey continued along in the unpublished comics picking up the threads from WCA #42 and an angry Silver Surfer.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 33

Mantis Strikes Back Original art scans (courtesy of Dan Tandarich) of Mantis in action in FF #325.

Art by Rich Buckler and Tanghal.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

West Coast Avengers #43 (unpublished version): Hawkeye and Mantis kiss passionately in the aftermath of the battle with Necrodamus. Just then, a fuming Silver Surfer soars down and pulls Mantis away from the archer. He thought she was dead and was mourning her loss since Silver Surfer #9. He is shocked to find out that she doesn’t remember their romance among the stars. Mantis explains that she woke up at her home in Connecticut (Silver Surfer Annual #1, 1988) but could remember nothing of her recent past.

The Avengers have been helping her get her life back together (with Hawkeye helping a little more than the others).

Flashback to Silver Surfer #9, with his battle against the Elders of the Universe. Now he reasons that Mantis must have transferred her essence to another body just as the explosion occurred though the incredible force must have wiped away her memory. Surfer is ecstatic to be reunited with her, but Mantis explains that she is with Hawkeye now. The Silver Surfer seethes with anger. Earth is always at the root of his problems. He is spurned… for a costumed athlete?! Hawkeye takes offense, but the Surfer knocks him aside. The Surfer starts wildly shooting rays in an outburst of anger and takes off.

Mantis reasons that she must subconsciously still have her powers. It sounds like she needs something to shock her memory. But nothing happened when the Surfer suddenly appeared. Script: “She says yes… I think I’d like to be alone now. He [Hawkeye] says I’d rather stay, but she says no, please, if you love me. He says I think I do, lady— it could be rebound from Bobbi, but… I don’t know.”

At the Diablo Mountains, Mantis takes on Kang yet again. Meanwhile, Hawkeye and the Silver Surfer agree to be civil enough to look for her and they both fly away on the Surfer’s board. Back at the fight, Kang gains the upper hand with his futuristic weapons. The result is Mantis’ “death” (again). Her energy signals the Surfer, who zeroes in on her immediately. Upon their arrival they notice a plant. Its growth accelerates quickly and, glistening and beaming, out of the large bulb steps Mantis. Her memory has returned and she remembers it all now from her romance with the Surfer to her time with the West Coast Avengers.

Script: “Goes to Hawk and says sincere goodbyes.

She wouldn’t have hurt him for the world, but she was alone, and she has an earthy nature. He says he was alone, too—and he must have a sappy nature.” She wants to be in space with the Surfer. Hawkeye isn’t happy about it but he respects her decision. Hawkeye stands alone as he watches Mantis and the Surfer fly off into space.

The Mantis/Surfer plotline was to continue in Englehart’s never-released Silver Surfer #23 (titled “Death Be Not Cowed!”), with the art team of Ron Lim on pencils and Joe Rubinstein on inks.

Again, let’s rewind the Marvel chronology and go pick up the pieces left by the end of Fantastic Four #325, only this time Mantis does not leave the physical plane as pure thought. The Celestial Madonna and the Silver Surfer fly up towards the heavens, happy to have found each other again. The blurb in the script sets it up: “But this is a changed Mantis, brutally deprived of the child she bore as the Celestial Madonna—and instead of an ending, this is just the beginning of the Surfer’s most far-flung and frightening quest!” They speed off to rescue her son from the Cotati.

THIS TITAN IS MAD!

Had this issue been published, it would have also been legendary for the reappearance of one of Marvel’s most infamous villains, the death-god Thanos. Scene change to “Elsewhere…” The purple-robed Death makes her appearance where the being called Thanos stands immobile. She pulls the granite statue closer to her skeletal mouth and kisses it and Thanos lives again! The villain rants, “Let all who love life know the ecstasy of Death!!” In this case, the offerings will be the Silver Surfer and Mantis!

The two heroes soar through hyperspace on the Surfer’s board and reach the Cotati homeworld. The Cotati try to explain, “But as the seed falls from the plant to rise upon its own roots so has your seed fallen from you!”

Mantis responds, “No! It is not as you see it with your green intelligence! You cannot move! When your seed leaves you, you cannot retrieve it, so your code of life says your bond with it is broken! It is not the same for those who can move! The bonds of flesh are actively nurtured as long as humans live!”

The battle of philosophy continues—is the child half-human or half-plant? The Cotati are not swayed so Mantis goes on the attack. Even though she doesn’t have her Cotati-given powers, she remains a mistress of the martial arts. The Silver Surfer goes to her aid with the power cosmic. The script reads: “One plant stands alone—this looks just like all the other plants, but it will become an individual over next two issues.”

The two warring factions pause as the Surfer realizes he will not take their lives. The Cotati express, “It really 34 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

is a problem, this utter incompatibility between our two forms of life! You cannot coerce us without destroying our fragile forms—we cannot coerce you without unsettling your raging emotions!”

In a rage, Mantis exclaims, “That is why the child was born! He is the compatibility between us, and you cannot have him all to yourselves!”

As all sides ponder this impasse, a huge “Kirbybomb” descends! The warhead will turn the planet into a raging star. The Cotati mentally leave their bodies without revealing the location of her son. The bomb is almost upon them as the Surfer creates a shield.

The Silver Surfer and Mantis survive the atomic death of a world through the Surfer’s use of the power cosmic in defensive bubble form. But the energy from the blast threatens to tear away at his shield. Enter: Thanos! The Mad Titan rants, “It had nothing to do with the Cotati, woman— and nothing to do with hatred! It had everything to do with the will of Thanos—the will that the Silver Surfer must die!

To use less than your full power against me will guarantee your destruction—but to divert the power from Mantis will guarantee hers! Choose, Surfer!! Choose!!”

Englehart explains, “I had no thought beyond this issue. I was already getting static from editorial, so I did my Mantis-Thanos story. I deliberately figured I’d plot the next one if I got to do a next one, which I didn’t.

I had to do a replacement story, in the worst little run of the series, and I don’t even like to think about that.

The replacement, of course, was titled G.I.G.O., for ‘Garbage In, Garbage Out.’ ” TANDARICH: In your unpublished Silver Surfer #23 script you write, “One plant stands alone…” Was this Mantis’ son?

ENGLEHART: Yes to the son. I’d introduced him in the Lorelei story in [the ’80s indie title] Scorpio Rose, and in the non-canonical Surfer #1 for the Marvel Universe [Marvel Fanfare #51], and I was going to move that bit forward in the unpublished #23. Beyond that, some of the ideas I eventually got to in Avengers: Celestial Quest, about Mantis as Life and Thanos as Death, were sketched out for the following issues—which never happened.

TANDARICH: Was there any problem with you using Thanos either by [Thanos creator] Jim Starlin or the editors in the unpublished SS #23?

ENGLEHART: I was told Thanos was off limits, by Marvel.

By this time, Englehart’s relationship with Marvel had dwindled to an all-time low. He was given a few months to wrap up his storylines with Fantastic Four, including the mandate that founding members Reed and Susan Richards along with their son Franklin would have to be put back on the team. During this period, the original Fantastic Four remained captured and their dreams told the stories showing condensed versions of the ideas Englehart would have told in future issues. The writer used the pseudonym John Harkness for the remainder of his run.

Fantastic Four #331 (Oct. 1989) unveiled the revelation of the TURINO XL. The cover copy read, “It’s a dream!

It’s a hoax! It’s an imaginary story! And, it’s also Ultron!”

Englehart never had the chance to resolve this plotline in the pages of West Coast Avengers. After namedropping the TURINO XL for a few issues, it was Franklin Richard’s Scrabble game that revealed the letters TURINO XL to be ULTRON XI (11). Ultron explained his new scheme: “I rebuilt myself as the world’s most popular home computer, to infiltrate half the homes and offices in

Avengers Assemble… for Now… Avengers East and West together, in an illo by Kieron Dwyer and Tom Palmer.

From an article/ interview with Walter Simonson in 1988’s Comics Scene #3, re his stint as the Avengers scribe.

Scan courtesy of Dan Tandarich.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 35

America! Every home, every office, with alien minds installed—minds that are secret duplicates of mine!”

Ms. Marvel’s quick thinking defeated Ultron. Englehart reminds readers, “But of course, it’s just a dream… not allowed to really happen!”

In Silver Surfer Annual #2 (1989), Englehart lamented the fate of Mantis and gave us this line: “Hated and despised by those who could never equal or even understand her, and now lost forever to this universe, she remains a shining star in the star-spangled heavens.”

MANTIS RETURNS

It would be more than ten years before Englehart would come back to the character of Mantis and the Avengers with Avengers: Celestial Quest in 2001. Englehart explains, “[Marvel editor] Tom Brevoort asked me to come in and repair the damage that had been done to Mantis. He and I started tentatively working together, so he said he liked her and thought I could put her back on track.”

This time, Englehart takes us back to the time when Mantis was unceremoniously dispersed by the Elders of the Universe in Silver Surfer #9. From Avengers: Celestial Quest #2: “Yet the blast merely spread her essence thin across the stars, because in becoming the Madonna… her essence had become the essence of Life.” She tried to pull herself together, literally, but this time all she could manage was “ephemeral ghosts.” No one remembers this, including the Scarlet Witch and the Vision, because “Once it left them, its presence faded from their minds… from reality itself.”

Englehart retroactively rewrote those Mantis appearances to be slivers of Mantis’ character that no one but the readers would remember and in effect, fixing those earlier stories. Those ghosts of Mantis would eventually become more substantial… until Thanos came calling and started picking them off one by one. But by killing the others, Mantis was able to become whole that much faster, thereby making this the first time she had truly appeared as her real self since Silver Surfer #9.

Thor summed it up: “The Avenger Assembles!”

Celestial Quest picked up the strands of various stories that Englehart had introduced over the years. Readers met a grown-up version of Mantis’ son, Sequoia or Quoi, named for “the noblest of Earth trees.” Mantis explored her relationship with the Vision. And Englehart was finally able to tell his story of Mantis versus Thanos. Life versus Death. Sequoia, also known as the Celestial Messiah, was Thanos’ opposite number in the Marvel Universe, and the villain just couldn’t have that.

The story of Mantis became a palimpsest, one that was constantly rewritten, but the readers could still see the writing underneath the new story. And speaking of new stories, many of these characters and storylines remain relevant today. Mockingbird, Mantis, and a civil war within the Avengers are all being presented in a new light either on television or on the big screen. Englehart explored these ideas and characters back in the late ’80s, and they are being reexamined for a new audience today.

Special thanks to Steve Englehart and Al Milgrom for the stories and art. This one is dedicated to you guys as a way of saying thanks for the comics! Thanks to Tom DeFalco, Ralph Macchio, and Howard Mackie for their time and recollections. Appreciation goes out to Rebecca Busselle for words of advice.

And to the gone but never forgotten Mark Gruenwald, thanks to you, too!

DAN TANDARICH is an educator in New York City. Contact him at yellowjacket74@hotmail.com.

BEHIND THE SCENES WITH “S.F.X.” STEVE ENGLEHART AND “TWO-FISTED” TOM DEFALCO One writer (Steve Englehart), one editor-in-chief (Tom DeFalco), and three editors (Howard Mackie, Ralph Macchio, and Craig Anderson): Put all five in a tumbler, shake vigorously, and serve. The mixture sometimes pours out smooth comic-book stories, and sometimes not. When it’s smooth, Steve Englehart was in the mix. When something was a little off, it was S.F.X. Englehart as writer. When it wasn’t working, Steve’s pseudonym John Harkness took over. Storylines shifted to other titles, including the one involving Mantis. BACK ISSUE investigates Steve Englehart’s work for Marvel in the late ’80s and why he left Marvel for a second time.

According to Englehart, DeFalco wanted him out. Disagreements over raises, characters, and storyline directions simmered. One early result precipitated Englehart’s removal from West Coast Avengers. “That book was just yanked out from under me,” Englehart stated in Amazing Heroes #171 (Sept. 1989). That was the first intimation that there was even anything wrong, let alone that things were as wrong as they turned out to be.”

Englehart says he sent in the plot for what turned out to be his last issue [#39], but didn’t receive all of the pages back to script dialogue. Then he heard rumors about John Byrne taking over the book. The Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer titles received editorial mandates by DeFalco, Macchio, and Anderson. “On the FF, basically I’ve been told to turn everything back to the way it was before I got there,” said Englehart back in 1989. “He [DeFalco] wanted Reed and Sue back, he wanted Ben un-mutated, he wanted Ms. Marvel to go away… Crystal, as you may have noticed, just vanished in the middle of the storyline without any explanation.” DeFalco wanted Englehart to turn his Silver Surfer mega-storyline into done-in-one stories that ended with a moral. “Sales [on my books] are good, fan reaction is good…

My editors are happy, but [DeFalco] is not.”

Sometimes Englehart changed his byline title to S.F.X. Englehart to show that he was reduced to “sound effects.” The writer explained back in 1989: “That’s my first attempt to leave my name off of [the book].”

When editorial took too heavy of a hand with the direction or the writing, he changed his name completely to John Harkness. “So the stuff from FF #322, the stuff from Surfer #23 onward, is… .not written by me. I mean, I’m putting the words down, but I’m being heavily edited, and I’m being forced to put in stuff that I don’t want to put in.” Englehart explains to BACK ISSUE, “I was discovering what was happening on the fly, without benefit of a pre-existing plan. When I was told what to write I thought I had become just sound effects and the S.F.X. moniker worked smoothly off ‘Steve.’ Once I decided the whole thing was down the tubes, I didn’t want my name associated in any fashion.”

Why didn’t Marvel just get another writer to replace him? Englehart answered that it was only DeFalco who wanted to get rid of him and not his editors.

According to the former editor-in-chief, Tom DeFalco, he never had it out for Englehart. He advocated for Englehart when Craig Anderson wanted to replace him on the Silver Surfer. Regarding raises DeFalco recalls, “When I became editor-in-chief, I convinced the powers-that-were that we should reward everyone who signed an exclusive with us. We did this by paying them an additional $5 per page.” Englehart inquired about raising his rate, but DeFalco told him he wasn’t under an exclusive contract since he was writing for DC Comics as well. Later, Englehart contacted DeFalco again when he wasn’t writing for DC and told him he was now eligible for the additional money. But his editors never offered Englehart an exclusive contract. Englehart wasn’t happy. DeFalco continues, “A lot of freelancers weren’t happy with their page rates. Many argued with me. I never took it personal… nor did I pressure them to quit. I could understand his unhappiness with not getting the additional $5 a page. Trust me—no freelancer ever thinks he’s being paid the right rate. I never did!”

36 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

DeFalco adds that sales were a factor. In the case of WCA, “Sales were falling rather rapidly and the book needed something new or the title would have been cancelled.” Regarding FF, “I had noticed the book was losing sales and had made some suggestions and given some instructions… but I wouldn’t have bothered if I wanted Steve gone…” Editor Howard Mackie says that he had pressure to increase sales on WCA and when an opportunity came up to work with John Byrne, he took it. Al Milgrom was asked to stay on as inker but declined.

According to DeFalco, “When it came to backing my editors, I believed they were the ones on the front lines and were responsible for the content, deadlines, and sales of their titles.

I could only hold them responsible if they had complete control of their creative teams. If I assigned a writer to a book and the guy didn’t deliver his scripts on time—how could I hold my editor responsible? How could I hold him responsible if sales fell?

On decisions about creative teams and content, I backed my editors.

We didn’t have to pressure anyone to quit. If an editor wanted to make a change he/she was empowered to make it.”

In the book Marvel Comics: The Untold Story (2012), author Sean Howe describes DeFalco’s editorial style: “He felt that the editors needed to be accountable caretakers, protecting the legacy of the grand narrative and keeping the company’s best interests in mind.” Howe also stated that Englehart had been fired from West Coast Avengers because he refused to use Iron Man. Englehart responds, “Sorry, but that bit is totally false. I was fired because Marvel had decided that they could sell their books with anyone writing them.”

Back in 1989 (Amazing Heroes #171), both Ralph Macchio and Craig Anderson took responsibility for taking Englehart off of the books.

They said that DeFalco did have opinions on story directions. Anderson added that in some cases DeFalco interrupted an ongoing storyline or rejected a story outright. Referring to the original plot for Silver Surfer #23 where Thanos would have made his return appearance, the story was rejected by DeFalco and Anderson. Thanos would make his reappearance under the writing of his creator, Jim Starlin, who took over the writing of Silver Surfer after Englehart.

In 2005, when DeFalco interviewed Ralph Macchio for his book, Comics Creators on Fantastic Four, he had this to say about why Englehart left the Fantastic Four. “We had a parting of the ways, creatively. There were stories that he wanted to do that just didn’t work for me. I liked a lot of his run, but I didn’t like the way he wanted to go so I made a change.” That change was hiring Walt Simonson to take over the book. And in an email exchange Macchio

Speechless West Coast Avengers Annual #3, page 10, featuring Mantis and the infamous missing word balloons. Steve Englehart attributes this to editorial interference. Scan courtesy of Dan Tandarich.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

continued, “Tom never insisted I remove Steve or any freelancer from any title. When I decided to let Steve go from FF, I felt it only right to give him the time to wrap up his various storylines.”

The wrap-up involved Englehart telling as many of his future storylines as he could.

“The dream stories at the end were bare bones versions of the stories I would have done for real if I’d been able to; the last one, how Frank made Alicia leave Ben for Johnny [FF #333], was the plot that got me the FF in the first place [under then-editor-in-chief Jim Shooter]” (Amazing Heroes #175, Jan. 1990).

One casualty at the heart of all of this behind the scenes brouhaha was Mantis. As Englehart’s time on WCA ended, he took the character and continued her story in the pages of Fantastic Four. He planned to continue her story in the unpublished Silver Surfer #23.

Englehart commented on the situation in a letter published in Amazing Heroes #175, specifically addressing the handling of Mantis: “Now, why do you suppose the trashing of one of my most famous characters, the strong second lead of the only successful Silver Surfer run, was done as a surprise to me and the readers? WCA Annual #3, completed just before #39, was written by me, but notice how whenever Mantis appears, her balloons are missing. The whole thing with her was really sad, because she had such a wonderful spirit and added so much to the Marvel Universe. She deserved much better, and I gave her the best I could in FF #323–325.”

For this interview Englehart adds, “The trouble wasn’t with Mantis; it was with my having creative freedom under the new regime.

But they weren’t willing to actually fire me yet, so I took my Mantis ideas and moved them to the FF. There, I treated her as best I could, and got her the hell out as soon as possible, because I could see that my days were numbered.”

DeFalco comments, “I don’t recall any problems with Mantis. Steve was interested in her, but I don’t recall anyone else asking about her.”

Englehart eventually did come back to Marvel a third time and finished his Mantis storyline in 2001 in Avengers: Celestial Quest.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 37

Comic-book history has traditionally been marked by short periods of creativity and innovation, followed by long periods of imitation.

There are exceptions, of course, but it is a fair generalization. For every Flash, there is a Whizzer. And while some of the imitators have become successful in their own right, usually that has been the exception rather than the rule.

In March 1974, Jenette Kahn, who later became president and publisher of DC Comics, launched Dynamite magazine for Scholastic, Inc. Dynamite was aimed at pre-teens, featuring a mixture of popular culture and humor, including recurring features on magic tricks and puzzles, as well as some reprints of Marvel and DC superhero origin stories. Dynamite was available by subscription, at some newsstands, and through monthly order forms for Scholastic’s Arrow Book Club, given out in schools. Dynamite was a hit, reportedly Scholastic’s most successful publication, which prompted the company to launch Wow magazine for elementary age kids and Bananas magazine for teenagers the following year. Contributors to Scholastic magazines included Bob Stine, who went on to write the Goosebumps series of books, and Sam Viviano, who later drew for MAD magazine.

Marvel Comics had tried publishing magazines, but according to former Marvel editor and writer Roy Thomas, “[Marvel publisher] Martin Goodman had never really wanted to do a non-Code comic… nor did he really want to get into magazine-format comics; and Stan really did.” [Alter Ego #81, Oct. 2008] When Goodman left in 1972, Stan took over his job and Marvel began publishing magazines, with varying degrees of success. By late 1974, there were 11 regular titles, the most enduring of which were The Deadly Hands of Kung Fu, Planet of the Apes, and Savage Sword of Conan.

So it is not surprising that Marvel took notice of the success of Dynamite and decided to see if it could make lightning strike twice.

What was surprising was the approach Marvel took in launching its own pre-teen magazine, Pizzazz. As reported in The New York Times on July 7, 1977, “The Cadence Publishing division of Cadence Industries, whose major property is Marvel Comics, is launching an ambitious new publication aimed at the 10 to 14 set. Pizzazz is the name of the monthly that will be started with a $250,000 promotion budget, much of that money going into TV advertising. To be introduced initially in the South in September, the magazine is expected to attain a national circulation of 200,000 next year. ‘We’re launching it like a toy company would launch a new product,’ said Nancy Allen, director of advertising and sales promotion. Norman, Craig & Kummel is the ad agency and Manning, Selvage & Lee is doing public relations. The cover price of Pizzazz will be 75 cents and the yearly subscription $7.50.”

Pizzazz wasn’t the original title of the magazine. In issue #17 of the Marvel in-house fanzine, FOOM, it was referred to as The Marvel Connection, but by the time the magazine reached the newsstands, the title had changed to Pizzazz. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines pizzazz as “the quality of being exciting or attractive: such as glamour; vitality.”

A test issue of Pizzazz was printed a few months prior to the magazine’s public debut. It included several articles and pictures not found in the first issue, as well as a completely different cover featuring an artist’s rendition of John Travolta. (The popularity of Star Wars led the editor to change the cover.) The test issue was only given to the staff and never released to the public. A promotional button bearing the slogan “I’ve got Pizzazz” was also produced.

Pizzazz Cover Gallery Issues #1 (Oct. 1977) through 15 (Jan. 1979) of Pizzazz, featuring your favorite heartthrobs, superstars, and sci-fi heroes of the late ’70s. A standout cover is #5 (Feb. 1978), with its amazing Bob Larkin painting featuring Linda Ronstadt and her marvelous backup band.

Pizzazz, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Marvel characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Star Wars TM & © Lucasfilm, Ltd. Other characters © their respective copyright holders.

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TM

by D

ewey Cassell

Tarzan TM & © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.

THE PRE-PIZZAZZ PRE-TEEN ZINE Scholastic, Inc.’s Dynamite, founded in 1973 by soonto-be DC Comics publisher Jenette Kahn, was a trailblazing kids’ periodical that paved the path for imitators including Marvel’s Pizzazz. It ran for an astounding 18 years, from issue #1 (Mar. 1974) to issue #165 (Mar. 1992). As did Pizzazz, Dynamite often featured then-popular celebrities and properties, starting with such ’70s icons as M*A*S*H, All in the Family, and Jimmie Walker of Good Times and winding down with such early ’90s favorites as The Fresh Prince of Bel Air’s Will Smith, Beverly Hills 90201, and Julia Roberts.

Pitching Pizzazz Mirthful Marie Severin provided artwork for this Pizzazz pre-release Marvel house ad with Stan “The Man” Lee name-dropping other popular kids’ mags.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 39

TM & © Scholastic, Inc.

In some respects, Marvel played to its strengths with Pizzazz. For example, a 30-second commercial television advertisement featured Spider-Man reading a copy of issue #9 of the magazine and reluctantly admitting the magazine was “Fantastic, but not perfect,” because he was not on the cover. (The commercial can be seen at www.retroist.com/2013/06/06/1978-marvel-pizzazzmagazine-commercial/.) By contrast, some print advertising used illustrations by artists not typically found in Marvel comics. Pizzazz leveraged some Marvel staff, but the editor was brought in from outside the company. Bobby Miller was the former editor and publisher of Sesame Street and Electric Company magazines, the latter of which had included a short Spider-Man story in each issue since early 1976.

As Pizzazz magazine was introduced in each region of the USA, its popularity grew to a reported circulation of 100,000 by early 1978. However, as noted in American Comic Book Chronicles: The 1970s (Jason Sacks and Keith Dallas, TwoMorrows, 2013), “Pizzazz became mired in controversy when writer Nat Hentoff reviewed the new novel Gentlehands and declared that it trivialized the Holocaust,” which was not well received by Marvel management. “We need things in the magazine that will grab the kids,” [Marvel Comics Group president James] Galton insisted. “It has to be entertaining. We’re not going to get the kids involved in social issues. The Holocaust just doesn’t fit.” Editor Bobby Miller was fired shortly thereafter, replaced by Jeff Lewis.

The irony is that Marvel had won praise just a few years before when they published a story about the dangers of drug use in issues #96–98 of The Amazing Spider-Man, even though it violated the Comics Code Authority.

Pizzazz included some recurring features, such as Pizzazz Puzzle Pages, Pizzazz Poop (a gossip column), and reprints of “Hey Look” by Harvey Kurtzman, as well as articles profiling a particular celebrity or movie, including Star Wars, Shaun Cassidy, KISS, Meatloaf, Grease, and Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. There were also articles about Marvel comic characters, including the Amazing Spider-Man and Incredible Hulk television shows, in addition to a serialized Young Tarzan comic story that only lasted a few issues (see inset). Pizzazz included contributions from some Marvel creators, among them Marie Severin, who brought her unique style of art and humor to bear on features like “Doctor Doom Cracks Up,” “Dr. Strange’s Hypnotism Lesson,” and “Top Secret Intelligence Tests Run on the Hulk,” the latter written

by Roger Stern. But many of the contributors to Pizzazz were not from Marvel Comics, including John Holmstrom, who had worked with Bananas and was founding editor of PUNK magazine, and Ken Avidor (nee Weiner).

Holmstrom, who drew a comic strip called “Joe” for Bananas, remembers being recruited to work on Pizzazz.

Holmstrom recalls, “ ‘Joe’ ran in Bananas magazine from 1975 to 1984. ‘Jovial’ Bob Stine was my editor, the best ever. I think it was Jeff Lewis who approached me, and he

The Adventures of Luke and Leia Continue (top) Roy Thomas and Howard Chaykin continued their Star Wars partnership by producing new Star Wars tales for Pizzazz. Original art from issue #2’s tale, with inks by Tony DeZuniga, courtesy of Heritage. (bottom) Marvel stalwart Marie Severin’s artwork graced this Dr. Strange one-pager from Pizzazz #13 (Oct. 1978).

Scan courtesy of Dewey Cassell.

Star Wars TM & © Lucasfilm, Ltd. Dr. Strange TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

wined and dined me at an expensive lunch to talk me into working for Pizzazz. I think they were aware that my work at Bananas (and PUNK) was very popular (and damn good, I like to think). So Jeff made me an offer I could not refuse. Bob Stine was not happy about the situation since he saw Pizzazz as a competitor to Bananas, but he also didn’t want to prevent me from making a living. So I worked for both publications for a short time. As you know, Pizzazz didn’t last long.” One of the features Holmstrom drew for Pizzazz was titled “Do-It-Yourself Comic Strip Writing.”

Regarding his experience with Pizzazz, Holmstrom adds, “I was disappointed that I was given mediocre scripts to work with and not allowed to submit my own story ideas. It was very much a ‘Top to Bottom’ management style. As I remember, I was given some weird, unfunny scripts starring an old, out-of-it (female) schoolteacher. It’s always difficult when, as an illustrator, you are given material that’s not humorous at all.

There’s no inspiration, no spark to bring things to a new level. Worst of all, I think if I could have met with the writer and we could have collaborated on the writing, we could have come up with much better stuff. But apparently that wasn’t ‘The Marvel Way.’ ” Ken Avidor had a more positive experience with Pizzazz, as he recollects, “I was a youngster and a recent art school drop-out. I think I was hanging out at PUNK magazine and John Holmstrom suggested I take a hike up to the Pizzazz office. I think I brought a portfolio with me with stuff and showed the editor. I guess the editor liked what I showed him. I only remember producing two pieces. One was about the evolution of adults and the other was a map of rock ’n’ roll. I had fun working on them. The editor encouraged me to do wacky stuff. The pay was good for a youngster like me. I was disappointed when the publication was discontinued.” Avidor illustrated at least one other piece for Pizzazz, titled “Outer Space Disc Jockey.”

Reaction to Pizzazz appeared to be good, at least if the letters column was any indication. In issue #15 (Dec. 1978), one fan wrote, “Dear Pizzazz, You had the ‘Most of Shaun’ in your first national issue. My brother Michael and I had the Most of Pizzazz! I bought 16 issues with my paper route money… After I bought all of the magazines in the store, Shaun came to Alpine Valley and I couldn’t afford a ticket. Say Hi to him for me.”

The best part of Pizzazz magazine, however, and the part for which it is most remembered, was the Star Wars comic serial that appeared in each issue. Pizzazz featured the first new Star Wars stories that were published after the movie was released, predating by several months issue #7 of Marvel Comics’ Star Wars, which began Marvel’s post-adaptation original Star Wars stories. The Pizzazz Star Wars comic stories were divided into three-page chapters, one in each issue.

The early chapters were illustrated by Howard Chaykin and written by Roy Thomas. Of his involvement with Pizzazz, Thomas tells BACK ISSUE, “I was just asked to do the stories, since I was still ‘the Star Wars guy’ at Marvel at that roy thomas time. There was never any question, I don’t think, of anyone else being © Luigi Novi / Wikimedia Commons. handed the assignment while I was.” George Lucas did place some restrictions on the new stories, as Thomas explains. “No Han and Leia romance, no Darth Vader, no Clone Wars… I’d get other ‘no’s,’ I guess, as I’d ask, so I mostly didn’t.” And as Thomas goes on to say, 40 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

All That Pizzazz

he didn’t encounter much resistance Superman on the cover saying, “I consider from Lucasfilm with the new Pizzazz it the greatest honor of my long career to stories. “I think they were sent over, be on the cover of a Marvel magazine.” now that Star Wars had suddenly So, why was Pizzazz not more become Big Business. I was never asked successful? There was a combination to change anything.” of factors. The large capital outlay in The Pizzazz Star Wars stories featured launching the magazine made profitabilLuke, Leia, C3PO, and R2D2, while the ity an uphill challenge. In addition, the Marvel Star Wars comic-book stories appearance of the magazine was not featured Han Solo and Chewbacca. always consistent from one issue to the Thomas notes, “I wanted to keep the next. Some issues appeared stylish and john holmstrom Pizzazz stories separate from the main well presented, while others seemed Star Wars comic, so I bit the bullet and amateurish and did not reflect well when compared to the competition. Pizzazz decided to write about Luke and Leia even though I’d been told I couldn’t advance also lacked the in-school distribution channel, or even mention any possible romance as well as the implied endorsement, between them. I enjoyed doing those that Scholastic had with its magazines.

Dynamite ran for 18 years. little Star Wars chapters to some extent, but they weren’t as much fun as ‘Han But perhaps the chief mistake may Solo comics.’ ” However, Thomas quit have been not fully embracing their writing the Star Wars stories with issue connection to Marvel Comics and #6 of Pizzazz, about the same time making greater use of Marvel writers and he left the Marvel Star Wars comic, artists. It was, after all, the connection after hearing that Lucas didn’t like to Marvel that made Pizzazz unique. some of the stories he had written for Otherwise, it was just another teen the comic. As Thomas commented in magazine. ken avidor issue #145 of Alter Ego (TwoMorrows, Whatever the cause, the end was a Mar. 2017), “With no royalties at stake, foregone conclusion. The truth is that I saw it as just another comic book—and one that had Pizzazz magazine was ultimately become a much less fun one to write!” an imitation that never really The Star Wars chapters continued in Pizzazz, written lived up to its name.

by Archie Goodwin and drawn by veteran Marvel artists like Walt Simonson and Dave Cockrum. There were two Many thanks to Roy Thomas, John nearly complete stories published in Pizzazz, “The Keeper’s Holmstrom, and Ken Avidor, as well World” and “The Kingdom of Ice.” However, Star Wars as Jason Sacks, for their invaluable was not enough to save the floundering magazine insight into Pizzazz. and issue #16 (Jan. 1979) would be its last, leaving two DEWEY CASSELL is author of over remaining Star Wars chapters to be printed in the Marvel 40 articles and four books, including UK Star Wars Weekly and in several reprint books, including Mike Grell: Life Is Drawing Without volume 3 of Star Wars: The Complete Marvel Years Omnibus. An Eraser, available now from The final issue of Pizzazz featured Christopher Reeve as TwoMorrows Publishing.

(left) A one-pager

by Ken Avidor (Weiner), from Pizzazz #15 (Dec. 1978). (right) A John Holmstrom strip from #16 (Jan. 1979), the series’ final issue.

Scans courtesy of Dewey Cassell. (below) the final issue, #16 (Jan. 1979), featuring movie Man of Steel Christopher Reeve on an unprecedented Marvel cover!

(You Marvelites who moonlight as Superman fans are advised to order our previous issue, BI #109, which celebrated Superman: The Movie’s 40th anniversary.)

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Superman TM & © DC Comics.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 41

42 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

conducted by

Franck Martini

transcribed by Rose Rummel-Eury

denny o’neil

All covers TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Photo © Luigi Novi / Wikimedia Commons.

Dennis (Denny) O’Neil can be viewed first and foremost as a DC creator because of his legendary runs on Batman and Green Lantern/Green Arrow in the ’70s or his later long editorial stint on the Batman titles. But between 1980 and 1986, O’Neil came back to where he started his comics career— at Marvel Comics.

During those six years, O’Neil worked both as a writer and an editor at Marvel. His early work includes the Spider-Man titles. He wrote Amazing Spider-Man #207–219, 220, 222, and 223, and edited Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man (PPSM) and Marvel Team-Up. He gave their first major Spidey assignments to Roger Stern and John Romita, Jr. O’Neil introduced two important characters for Spidey in the ’80s, Lance Bannon, Peter Parker’s competitor at the Daily Bugle, and Madame Web, the blind psychic who would be one of the earliest characters to discover Spider-Man’s dual identity. He also brought artist Marie Severin on PPSM for a short while.

During a little less than two years, O’Neil chose not to use the classic Spidervillains and had Spidey fight the Frightful Four, along with Namor, Mesmero, Hydro-Man, the Sandman, and Kraven being the only “regular” bad guys appearing in the title. Surprisingly, Aunt May seldom appeared and Mary Jane Watson was nowhere to be seen. The main supporting cast consisted of the Daily Bugle and Daily Globe teams, plus Debra Whitman, a secretary in the biophysics department of Empire State University, whose relationship with Peter Parker never really went anywhere. O’Neil also wrote two memorable ASM Annuals, #14 (1980) and 15 (1981), both with Frank Miller pencils.

In 1981, O’Neil also started editing Daredevil and chose to put newcomer artist Frank Miller in charge of the scripts in lieu of previous DD scribe Roger McKenzie, and Miller brought huge success to the book. Miller would leave DD with issue #191 (Feb. 1983). O’Neil dropped Daredevil’s editor duties with #199 and took over the scripts, with a very Irish atmosphere evolving on the book with a villain such as the Gael and new character Glorianna O’Breen.

His early issues were drawn by Klaus Janson and had a direct connection with the Miller days. Then artist William Johnson took over for a somehow less memorable time (artistically and story-wise, with the Micah Synn story in 1984’s #202 and 204–206). The end of O’Neil’s Daredevil run was marked both by the emergence of David Mazzucchelli as artist and the downfall of DD’s longtime, on-and-off girlfriend, Heather Glenn, and her subsequent suicide in the dark and powerful story “Fog” (#220, July 1986).

Whenever the regular artists would not be available, a name appeared on Spidey and DD fill-in issues: Luke McDonnell. McDonnell would be O’Neil’s main collaborator on his lengthiest Marvel run: Iron Man (#158, 160–208, 1982–1986). This controversial, always challenging and sometimes infuriating story could be called “The Downfall and Rebirth of Tony Stark,” and that would only cover a part of what this story was. Following writer David Michelinie and artist co-plotter Bob Layton’s tenure on Iron Man and inspired by 1979’s “Demon in a Bottle” issues (#127–128, mainly), O’Neil took Stark on a path of self-destruction and alcoholism. The downfall would really start with issue #167 (Feb. 1983) when Tony starts drinking again, and would bounce with his near-death in issue #182 (May 1984) and conclude with his return as Iron Man in issue #200 (Nov. 1985). But the seeds had been planted since issue #160 and the introduction of the main villain of the story Obadiah Stane, who would manipulate Tony Stark into drinking again with attacks on Tony personally, his company, and Iron Man. O’Neil stripped Tony Stark of everything he had: first his dignity, then his Iron Man armor (#170, May 1983), and finally, his company and assets (#173, Aug. 1983)… and subsequently, most of the previously established supporting cast. Tony would be replaced as Iron Man by his best friend and bodyguard James “Rhodey” Rhodes, supported by new characters Edwin and Clytemnestra Morley. The story culminated with the final fight between Stark and Stane, and with the latter choosing suicide rather than defeat.

Essays could be written about this long and riveting story. But one of the most fascinating aspects is how the visuals followed the series’ twists and turns: from Bob Sharen changing completely his color palette in the course of five issues from shiny and bright tones to muted and darker ones, Steve Mitchell’s moody inks during the downfall issues, Luke McDonnell’s art taking on a new vibe with Akin and Garvey’s inks starting with issue #190 (Jan. 1985)… and then, the book takes a slightly more positive turn, with brighter colors being back (#196, July 1986), and finally new artist Mark Bright starts on the aforementioned issue #200. As O’Neil himself mentions in the interview following, this transformation would not have been possible without the work of editor Mark Gruenwald.

O’Neil would also oversee other books as editor including his six years at Marvel including What If? (in collaboration with Mark Gruenwald,

Spidey Super Stories (top) O’Neil added Madame Web to the Spider- Rogues. Cover to Amazing Spider-Man #210 (Nov. 1980) by John Romita, Jr. and Al Milgrom. (bottom left and right) Denny’s collaborations with Frank Miller included these two beloved Spidey Annuals from 1980 and 1981.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

including issue #24, Dec. 1980, the Gwen Stacy story), John Byrne’s Alpha Flight, Power Man and Iron Fist, and the first Moench/ Sienkiewicz Moon Knight series.

What follows is an edited transcription of an April 2018 telephone conversation where Dennis O’Neil kindly shares with BACK ISSUE a few great stories from his Marvel days.

– Franck Martini FRANCK MARTINI: How did you move from DC to Marvel?

DENNIS O’NEIL: I had been comfortable at DC, and I realized I wasn’t getting any of the interesting jobs and I thought, “I’m a known quantity to these people. They know they can count on me for 70-odd pages of script every week and I won’t miss the deadlines. I wonder if I’m going to be satisfied with that.” I was writing a book on the history of comics for Scholastic Press and was interviewing lots of people… and I mean, I barely knew Jolly Jim Shooter, but he was the editorial head at Marvel and the logical guy to talk to. I interviewed with him and he offered me an editorial job there in the office.

I stalled him and said, “Thank you,” and stalled him for about three months. Things were a little tight financially, although I was not in financial trouble, but if I wanted more money, the only way DC made that possible was for me to write more. I could write as much as I wanted. The only problem with that, I thought, was I operating at the top of my capacity, or close to it. I thought the quality might suffer. What I would like to do was three books a month, and do something that wouldn’t add other books to my schedule. Shooter was making that possible. I don’t know if it was formalized or not, because it was a long time ago, but I think that he offered me a writer/editor deal. Those seldom, if ever, work out. Seems like everybody who gets put in charge of a comic-book line says, “We’ll have editors and these same people can be writers.”

Inevitably, the editor part of the deal gets slighted.

MARTINI: How long did it take for you to accept the offer?

O’NEIL: I stalled and stalled and stalled until finally I decided, “Well, I’d better go to work for Marvel, this [at DC] is getting us nowhere.” And so, I called Jim Shooter and said, “I’m happy to come to work for you.” He said, “Oh, you waited so long, we hired somebody.” (That turned out to be Mike Gold.)

So, there I was; I’d burned my bridges! I was working on a Shadow graphic novel for DC and thought that would take me couple/three weeks to finish. It was a pretty interesting job. I finished it, and I was a distance runner at the time and I went out for a three-mile run and got back home and there was a message on the machine from Jim saying, “You’re an editor here and you start Monday.”

MARTINI: Do you remember when and how you took over Spider-Man? O’NEIL: I had a pretty good reputation in the business.

Jim Shooter offered me this job and for two years was the best boss I ever had. For these two years, I was put in charge of the Spider-Man franchise. That meant that I edited the books, except for Amazing Spider-Man, which I wrote. It was not my best work, and suddenly I was fired off Spider-Man without explanation because I wasn’t doing good work.

That was a quick hit in the head, because I’d been fired off editorial jobs, but never off a writing job!

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 43

Hero Behaving Badly Iron Man #160’s penciler Steve Ditko refused to draw this page of Denny’s script calling for a drunken Iron Man, so Marie Severin stepped in for this splash.

Iron Man TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

MARTINI: Yet your run on Spider-Man was special: your not using classic villains or old characters. You created Madame Web and Lance Bannon, and worked with Frank Miller on the Annuals.

O’NEIL: Whenever I take over a new character, I don’t want to violate it. I don’t want to change the basics of the character. That was a lesson we learned from [DC editor] Julie Schwartz: Whatever is happening outside the window, that’s the world your characters live in. Julie was asked to revamp the Flash [at the dawn of the Silver Age of Comics]. He could have simply done the Flash as written by Gardner Fox in the 1940s—to my sensibility he looked like he’s wearing a sweatsuit with a hub cap and wings on it—but Julie recognized that was probably not the world’s best costume when it was new, so he put Carmine Infantino to work, to “Give me a contemporary costume.” He did that with a lot of the DC characters. And then Julie also made them have contemporary jobs. There was something in Spider-Man’s biography that I didn’t like at all, and Jim Shooter liked it a lot. So, that was not going into a good situation. I didn’t like the “spider-sense,” because, I thought, one of the things you should do when you are writing this kind of fiction is to have the characters be consistent.

MARTINI: What is wrong with the spider-sense?

44 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

O’NEIL: There is nothing that can kill him with that. If he always knows he’s gonna be in danger, then there is no conflict, and where does the peril come from? So I didn’t use the spider-sense and I tried to do some humaninterest stories that were human interest beyond, “Aunt May’s got another heart attack.” I thought they were beating that to death. That was a terrible pun, sorry [laughter]. I thought I was doing okay, and then Tom DeFalco, my editor, came in one day and said, “You’re fired.” Not much of an explanation beyond, “We don’t like what you’re doing with the character.”

That’s happened to me more than once. I think that if you’re an editor and you have a competent freelancer who is doing something you don’t think is right, you tell them about it, you don’t fire them right away.

MARTINI: When you were taken off Spider-Man, did you immediately move to Iron Man? O’NEIL: It was a long time ago and I wasn’t taking notes, but I think Archie Goodwin came over from the other side of the office and offered me work. I really didn’t go a day without work. Archie had done that earlier for me. We got along very well; Archie was my exact contemporary and a superb human being. I have no evidence of this, but I think that firing me was not Tom DeFalco’s idea.

MARTINI: Moving on to Iron Man, how did you come up with the “Fall of Tony Stark” storyline?

O’NEIL: Dave Michelinie had established that Iron Man was a drunk; I knew a little bit about drunks and I had done the [drug abuse storyline] stuff over at DC with Green Lantern and Green Arrow, so I was also able to write comic-book stories around those themes. With all due credit to Michelinie, it was his original idea. My only problem with Dave’s stuff— and I cannot emphasize enough how much I respect what he did—is that it might have given the impression that to get past this addiction, all you have to do is give yourself a slap in the face and it’s that quick and easy.

The best editor I ever worked for other than Julie was Mark Gruenwald. He died 20 years ago; he died at age 43 and was the healthiest guy I knew and he was a dear friend. [Editor’s note: See BACK ISSUE #103 for retrospectives of Mark Gruenwald and the aforementioned Archie Goodwin.] Anyway, we started doing a realistic story; the first one I ever wrote. I believe it was a fill-in [Iron Man #160 (July 1982)—ed.]. There are people who had a big part with this first story, and one of them was Steve Ditko.

Tony Stark is having a nightmare about being in his Iron Man suit without a helmet and being drunk in a bar. Steve refused to draw that shot. Marie Severin did a good job and took over that one’s splash page. Steve said, “Heroes don’t do that.” I said, “Steve, you understand it’s just a dream he had; heroes don’t do that!” [laughter] MARTINI: What was it like to work with Mark Gruenwald?

O’NEIL: We started and were off to a good start, but the story ran too long and that was my fault. It was also a great job.

I’d meet with Mark at a Chinese restaurant once a month and talk out every story, beat for beat. I got a lot of credit that Mark deserved. He was in charge of the villains and I was in charge of the human-interest stuff. I did all the actual scripting, but Mark was an enormous help.

It went the way it went; I stretched it too far. Good technique would have had me ending it six months earlier, but it was a reasonably accurate picture of how a smart, competent, rich guy can completely f*** up his life. Later, I found out from Mike Carlin, who was Mark’s assistant at the time, that our boss hated it and came in every month and told Mark to fire me off the character.

He wanted to go back to the rich guy who behaved like somebody whose bible was Hugh Hefner.

These stories had their partisans. I was glad when they reprinted this stuff. I look at these the way my son

looks at movie scripts, which he’s paid to edit. You can see that you’re not perfect; that [this long story] was, by my own professional standards, a mistake.

There was a worse thing than that. The guy who lettered the last speech that Tony Stark has, thought he’d be cute and scramble the lettering. I had been working two years, going up to that one speech, and it got garbled. For some reason, Mark, who was generally a very conscientious editor, didn’t catch it. I don’t think I’ve ever been angrier. [Editor’s note: Interviewer Franck Martini and I are unsure of the Iron Man issue in which this occurred.

If you know, please write ye ed at euryman@gmail.com and we’ll add that info to an upcoming “Back Talk” lettercol.]

MARTINI: How did you come up with Obadiah Stane?

O’NEIL: I was looking for the name of a memorable character and came up with Obadiah Stane. I probably got Obadiah from the Old Testament, and once that got into proofs, and all the editors could look at it, Mike Carlin made a list of “Denny O’Neil’s Next 75 Villain Names”: “Oobie Doobie Shooba,” “Oooga Oooga Oooga,” and they ridiculed me mercilessly for that! [laughs] So years later, Marifran [Denny’s late spouse] and I are at the 21 Plex looking at a preview for the next Iron Man movie, and the name jumped off the screen for me because of all the good-natured ridicule. I was friendly with the guy who was head of the Marvel’s editorial department. At that time, they hadn’t given anyone any money for ancillary use of characters, so I went home and I decided to have a little fun with him. I wrote him an email: “Thanks so much for not giving us any credit for the villain in Iron Man, because Marifran and I have gotten really used to eating cat food; some of it is very good.” I wrote him an email and by return mail: “Denny, I’m so sorry; I didn’t realize you created that character. One thing I am determined to do is see freelancers get what is coming to them. I’m so sorry, I will make this up to you.” A year passed, and I hadn’t heard from him and I thought, “His boss won’t let him do anything.” Then I got a nice check. [But] they have been better than DC about giving comic-book guys screen credit.

MARTINI: What led to the decision of putting Rhodey in the Iron Man suit?

O’NEIL: We didn’t have enough black characters and Rhodey was already established by Michelinie. So he was there for anybody’s use, in the same way Green Arrow was available when I started using him. I thought, using Rhodey was a good idea; it was logical—who else better to give the suit to? Here was a guy who knew more about it than anyone else. It was my idea, but Mark thought it was also a good idea. We also put Rhodey in the suit so that if we really needed major league superhero stuff we could cover that, otherwise we could be looking in on Tony going further and further down the hole.

MARTINI: What can you tell us of your Daredevil work as editor with Frank Miller, then as writer?

O’NEIL: Daredevil and me go way back—issue #18 (July 1966) was written by me, right after they recast the character. Bill Everett was the first [Daredevil] artist, and he did a generic costume.

[After a few issues by Joe Orlando and Vince Colletta,] then the job was given to Woody [Wallace Wood]; he was my son’s first babysitter. He did the right Daredevil. I think Roy was regular scripter then and got buried under work and I pinched hit for him. [Editor’s note: Actually, original Daredevil scribe Stan Lee was still writing the book at that time.]

One thing I became known for much later, through Batman, was street-level characters. I wrote 13 or 14 issues of Superman. I guess I did a credible job, but I didn’t like it because it is so hard to get him into trouble. It’s the essence of this kind of melodrama: the hero gets into some kind of terrible situation, and because of his own strength and intelligence, gets himself out of it. Daredevil is that kind of character. I think you could do more with his blindness, but I understand why they went that way they did with the character.

And so, Jo Duffy was editing it. Frank Miller, who played volleyball with us on Sunday afternoon out in Central Park, was just a kid; I didn’t know where he was from, or who he was.

But he walked with me and asked really intelligent questions about the work; not fanboy stuff.

From Dark Knight to Moon Knight Original art, courtesy of Heritage, from Iron Man #161 (Aug. 1982), guest-starring Moon Knight. Written by Denny O’Neil, penciled by Luke McDonnell, inked by Steve Mitchell. (bottom) An early Marvel credit for O’Neil, Daredevil #18 (July 1966).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 45

DENNY O’NEIL MARVEL COLLECTED EDITIONS All O’Neil Amazing Spider-Man stories can be found in The Essential Amazing Spider-Man volumes 9 and 10.

They are to appear in the upcoming ASM Marvel Masterworks volumes 20 and 21.

His Iron Man run appears in the Iron Man Epic Collection #10, 11, and upcoming 12. Iron Man #193–200 was also reprinted in the Iron Monger hardcover and trade paperback.

Only a few O’Neil Daredevil issues have been reprinted so far. Issues #215–217, 219–222, 225, and 226 can be found in the Love’s Labor Lost trade paperback. Let’s hope that upcoming Epic Collections will soon cover Denny’s Iron Man tales.

For a while—and I’m not sure if Frank would agree with this—but he was virtually another son. Turned out he and his girlfriend lived around the corner from us on 14th Street. My own son, who was a teenager by then, did some housesitting for him, as did I. He was about the only person in doing this work for 50 years that I could talk about the work. We could talk about the work and the two Annuals we did together. We’d have lunch two or three times a week and talk about how the story would work; how we would make it turn out? People have often asked me, “How is it working with Neal Adams?” I have no idea; I didn’t work with him. I wrote scripts and he did the art; that’s how it was done back then.

Not so much at Marvel, which did Stan’s Marvel method. I worked with Jim Aparo, one of my favorite [DC] artists, for ten years before I ever laid eyes on him. He lived deep in Connecticut, and I never went there and he never came in to parties, so we never had an occasion to interact until I put him on Batman and then I started having meetings twice a year with all writers and as many other creative people as my budget would allow for.

MARTINI: Do you remember discovering David Mazzucchelli when you worked on Daredevil as a writer?

O’NEIL: I didn’t discover Dave; I do not know where he came from. He was a freelancer I respected for his professionalism on Daredevil. He was what you wanted a professional artist to be. He always did a good job.

MARTINI: Do you remember bringing an Irish cultural aspect to Daredevil?

O’NEIL: I don’t think that was my finest hour; that character did not become one of my mainstays.

Here was the deal: That is based on something I know about. I read about this tribe that was extremely cruel.

If you were an old person, most tribal people would put you in a tent on something comfortable and bring you dinner. These people would throw the old people out in the wilderness and let them die, because they weren’t useful anymore. The name is the Ik Tribe [of the mountains of northeastern Uganda—ed.]. I obviously wasn’t going to do that with black people.

But the problem with dialect or dialogue [in comic books] is, it can look like you are ridiculing. I have a couple of Irish songs that I remember as a little kid.

I’m Irish—“O’Neil,” you don’t get more Irish than that! [So I thought,] no one will accuse me of ridiculing the Irish if I give them an Irish background to a story. It was a challenge as a writer. At the same time, everyone needs to know the story of the Ik to realize just how cruel we human beings can be.

MARTINI: You also had the IRA in those issues as well.

O’NEIL: Yeah, I had no idea why I came up with that.

I tended to use Irish because I was on perfectly safe ground.

MARTINI: After that you became the group editor on the Batman books…

Hollywood Bound (top) O’Neil’s bad guy Obadiah Stane, as “heart-wrenchingly” portrayed by Jeff Bridges in 2008’s Iron Man movie. (bottom) Iron Man #169 and 170, where O’Neil (with interior artists Luke McDonnell and Steve Mitchell) had Jim Rhodes replace a fallen Tony Stark.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc./Marvel Studios.

46 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

O’NEIL: It was the best editorial job on the planet.

I will say that until I die. Being Batman editor, you couldn’t find a better job than that in publishing.

I was working with really good people. [Editor’s note: Join us for BACK ISSUE #113—which celebrates the 30th Anniversary of the Batman movie—for articles about DC’s Bat-books launched in 1989 under O’Neil’s group editorship.]

MARTINI: You have had recent health issues. What are you currently doing?

O’NEIL: I just came back from a convention gig in Seattle and the doctors said, “You can’t ever be alone; if you fall over you may hit your head, you may die.”

Okay, they’ll send a cab for me, I’ll go to the airport, I’ll be surrounded by people in an airplane, they’ll send a cab for me at the other end, and then I’ll sign books. If I can get through that, I’ll accept similar invitations.

I have a job I hope to finish today or tomorrow for Paul Levitz at DC and a job I can take or not take for Mark Chiarello at DC. [Interviewer’s note: At this writing, Denny’s most recent credit is a short Batman story in DC Universe Holiday Special 2017.] I don’t know where we’ll go from here.

Also, one of the best things I do with my life is [working with] the Hero Initiative, started by Jim McLauchlin.

When I had a heart attack 15 years ago, the bill came to $107,000, and Marifran’s schoolteacher insurance took care of it. But people [in the comics business] run into this all the time—their kids are sick, there is a mortgage problem, and they have no place to go. They apply to us [the Hero Initiative]. If you’ve been working for five years or more in comics you can present your case to us or usually to Jim and we’ll decide if we’ll give them money or not. We can’t pay for a major open-heart surgery, but we can get you past your rent money, your grocery bill, your mortgage payment, we can get you past the crisis. We’ve been very successful financially.

For the last maybe five years, when I have gone to sign autographs, there is a glass jar next to where I’m signing.

Marifran always came with me. As I was signing, she in her sweet teacher-y way, she’d ask the fan or the kid, “Would you like to contribute to the Hero Initiative?

Denny works for them.” There would be $50 dollar bills sometimes. And artists are constantly doing drawings for us we could auction off.

MARTINI: Thank you very much, Denny, for your time!

A few sentences in this interview were taken from an interview O’Neil gave to the Marvel Epic Collection Podcast.

All podcasts can be found here: http://epicmarvelpodcast.com

“Fog” O’Neil, with artist David Mazzucchelli, presented the woeful end to Heather Glenn’s troubled life in Daredevil #220 (July 1985).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

When no one is watching, FRANCK MARTINI is also a mild-mannered communication manager with a patient wife, two daughters, and a cat called Krypto. He also contributes to the Marvel Epic Collection Podcast.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 47

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RECIPE FOR SUCCESS

Millsted

All covers TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

by I a n

Where could the work of Silver Age giants like Steve Ditko be found alongside that of the emerging stars of the late 1980s? Where could you find a 25-part Black Panther story or an epic origin story for Wolverine?

What comic could lure Doug Moench back to Master of Kung Fu? Where did Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandos meet Count Dracula?

It all happened in the anthology series Marvel Comics Presents.

In the Golden Age of comic books, anthology titles, with different stories and characters present in each issue, were the bedrock of the industry. Action Comics, Detective Comics, and many others contained multiple ongoing series.

When Timely [later Marvel] Comics entered the field with Marvel Mystery Comics, that book’s pages contained the Human Torch, Sub-Mariner, Ka-Zar, the Angel, and others between its covers. This was the industry norm for years.

It was as publishers reduced the page count of comic books that the trend toward one complete story in one comic book gradually became more typical. By the 1970s, when many titles had just 17 pages of comic story, there was little room for anything other than the lead feature. This is not to say that publishers didn’t try to reverse this trend.

Both Marvel and DC tried increasing page counts (and, as a result, prices).

There were Giant-Size comics, Dollar Comics, the rebirth of the Annual, and other innovations. Some were more successful than others. By the 1980s, the rise of the direct market and an upward swing in overall sales made a return to the anthology format potentially viable. In 1988, within a few weeks of each other, DC changed Action Comics to the anthology format with Action Comics Weekly #601 (Aug. 1988) [which we chronicled back in BACK ISSUE #98—ed.], while Marvel launched a new title, Marvel Comics Presents #1 (Sept. 1988).

At face value, it would seem that the two companies were spurred by competition with each other. However, Marvel’s then-editor-in-chief Tom DeFalco reveals that the inspiration was a more surprising source: “Marvel Comics was doing very well at that time. We were producing and selling more titles each year and our plans were to produce even more in the years ahead.

“A lot of people wanted to break into comics, but they weren’t quite ready,” DeFalco continues.

“They enjoyed penciling, writing, whatever, but didn’t realize how hard it is to actually produce a professional tom defalco comic book. We needed a training ground. DC had once produced a title called New Talent Showcase— © Luigi Novi / Wikimedia Commons. an almost-perfect training ground. Almost-perfect except for one factor: It didn’t sell.

“Here’s a sad fact: New talent doesn’t support new talent. People who want to break into comics won’t buy a comic by other people who want to break into comics. If a title doesn’t sell, you can’t keep publishing it.

“I also had another problem. In order to keep a trademark, you must actively publish that trademark on a regular basis. That means you need to publish the Ant-Man logo in order to keep your trademark on Ant-Man. I needed a place to publish characters and logos that didn’t have their own books.”

These needs led to the creation of an ongoing Marvel anthology title.

“I’m sure I discussed the concept with [Marvel editor] Mark Gruenwald— simply because I discussed everything with Mark—and eventually came up with the basic concept for Marvel Comics Presents,” DeFalco says. “We would produce a 32-page comic book without ads, divided into four stories of eight pages each. It would be a flip-book with a cover on both sides, so that we could include more than one logo per book. We would feature top talent or a popular character on the two cover-featured stories and new talent or a character without his/her own title on the two interior stories. Yes, there was a connection between Marvel Comics Presents and a DC title, but it wasn’t Action Comics Weekly. Marvel Comics Presents was our version of New Talent Showcase, but we wanted to keep that connection secret. We wanted it to sell so that we could keep publishing it. We never told the readers that its true purpose was to give new talent a place to polish their skills because new talent won’t support other new talent.

We were hoping the top talent and/or popular characters would help Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 49

sell the comic and disguise the fact that the title was really a training ground. When we started, I was hoping the title would last for at least six months.”

At one point the title was going to be Marvel Weekly.

DeFalco selected Michael Higgins as editor and Higgins started lining up creators and material. He deliberately set about contacting a number of creators who had not worked for Marvel in some years. Doug Moench, Steve Gerber, Gene Colan, Don McGregor, and others were all contacted to see if they would like to work on the comic. While this was going on, the title and release schedule had evolved. “We originally planned for Marvel Comics Presents to be weekly,” says DeFalco, “but our sales department convinced us that every two weeks would be better for the comic-book stores.” Meanwhile, Michael Higgins decided to leave his editorial position to go freelance. DeFalco continues, “I originally selected Michael Higgins as the editor and Terry [Kavanagh] was his assistant. When Michael decided to leave the editorial staff, I promoted Terry and he did a great job.

“Aside from giving Mike and Terry their basic marching orders in regard to cover-featuring top talent and popular characters, I had no input into characters or series,” DeFalco reveals. “That was all Mike and Terry.

I did actively welcome back creators who had fallen out with my predecessor, but I welcomed them back to Marvel. I did not actively recruit them for Marvel Comics Presents. I just wanted them back.”

Of course, Marvel did already have an anthology title at the time in Marvel Fanfare [see BACK ISSUE #96], whose editor, Al Milgrom, tells BI, “All the editors were sort of competing for all the best creators all the time. But I didn’t feel Marvel Comics Presents was any more a direct competitor than any of the other books.

The greatest similarity was the absence of ads. That was my original concept for Marvel Fanfare.”

KILLER SERIALS

When the first issue of Marvel Comics Presents arrived (cover-dated early Sept. 1988), the contents acted as a statement of intent. The list of creators in that single issue was Walter Simonson, Chris Claremont, John Buscema, Klaus Janson, Doug Moench, Tom Grindberg, Dave Cockrum, Steve Gerber, Tom Sutton, and Al Milgrom.

The new talent that DeFalco wanted to encourage would come later. The buying public saw creators they knew and liked on characters they wanted to read. Simonson’s contribution was a wraparound cover (the flip format initially proposed didn’t arrive until much later) featuring all four characters that appeared in that issue but placing Wolverine prominently on the front.

Wolverine was the box office required to lead off the title. Chris Claremont wrote a ten-part serial that would also act as a prologue to the Wolverine ongoing series that would follow in a few months’ time. With art by John Buscema and Klaus Janson, Claremont set the serial, “Save the Tiger,” in the imaginary city-state/island of Madripoor. This allowed Wolverine to act separately from the X-Men series (and team) and to develop a new supporting cast, including romantic interest Tyger Tiger.

The X-Men continuity of the time had the team as believed dead by the rest of the world. This meant that Wolverine, in his various solo stories, operated under a pseudonym. All of this, combined with Claremont’s use of first-person narration, gave the serial a classic man-with-a-past-in-an-exotic-location-battling-againstthe-odds format. It worked.

The second and third stories in issue #1 were both examples of editor Higgins making successful attempts to lure back big-name creators and get them to work on characters that had not been seen in some time.

Steve Gerber was asked to write a Man-Thing serial.

With artist Tom Sutton he produced a 12-part story that reintroduced the swamp-based character in a tale with

Logan and Pals (top) Walter Simonson’s wraparound cover for Marvel Comics Presents #1 (early Sept.

1988). (bottom left) John Buscema illustrated MCP’s initial Wolverine story arc. Shown here is Wolverine corner box art by Buscema, from Heritage Comics Auctions (www.ha.com). (bottom right) The Silver Surfer, in a tale in #1 written and drawn by Al Milgrom.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

50 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

Going Solo (left) Ann Nocenti wrote a series starring the X-Men’s Colossus beginning in MCP #10. Art by Rick Leonardi and P. Craig Russell. (right) Scribe Don McGregor returned to the Black Panther with “Panther’s Quest,” commencing in issue #13. Art by Gene Colan and Tom Palmer.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

plenty of political backdrop. Doug Moench returned to write Master of Kung Fu, which he had previously written successfully in its own series for a number of years [see BACK ISSUE #105]. With Tom Grindberg on pencils and Dave Cockrum on inks, the serial ran in the first eight issues.

With Wolverine, Man-Thing, and Master of Kung Fu all being quite densely narrated stories, the fourth slot was given to a comparatively lighter story of the Silver Surfer written and drawn by Al Milgrom. This was actually part of a series of linked stories by Milgrom that ran in the first four issues, each featuring a different lead character. Captain America (going by the name “the Captain” at the time), the Thing, and Thor were the other three heroes. Milgrom explains, “I think I heard about the book and talked to Michael Higgins about doing a story for it.

Michael was game, so I submitted a plot synopsis and away we went.

I always enjoyed inking my own pencils, and this gave me the opportunity to do it on some short stories, so I wouldn’t screw up the deadlines.

Also I might have considered the fact that a first issue would sell very well and the incentive payment might be pretty good. Never let it be said that I wasn’t mercenary!”

After that, the fourth slot was given to a succession of popular characters (Daredevil, Hulk, Sub-Mariner, Iron Man) in short selfcontained stories. The use of established characters gave Marvel Comics Presents credibility to the readers and retailers.

SIDE ORDERS

With issue #9 (Dec. 1988), two of DeFalco’s aims for the title took form.

Scott Lobdell had been trying for some time to write for Marvel but hitherto without success. He was an example of the new talent that DeFalco had felt needed somewhere to develop and was given that opportunity with a single-issue story featuring El Aguila. Lobdell showed an ability to write snappy dialogue and would go on to write quite a few more one-shot stories featuring relatively minor characters: Namorita followed in #12 (Feb. 1989), Paladin in #21 (June 1989), Shamrock in #24 (July 1989), and so on. As each character got a logo on the back cover, the trademarking issue was being covered as well.

Scott Lobdell wasn’t the only writer making use of the range of Marvel characters. Marc McLaurin wrote a Cloak solo story for #9, and Len Wein, another returnee to Marvel, wrote a fun Ant-Man (Scott Lang version) for #11. One of the first debates within the letters pages of

NOTES ON THE DATING OF MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS BACK ISSUE likes to give the correct cover dates for the comics referred to in the article. With Marvel Comics Presents, this is not as straightforward as might be expected. Our standard practice is to use the dates shown on the covers or given in the indicia on the inside front cover. For the first 33 issues, this works perfectly well. At that point we reach a time when Marvel was adjusting the cover dates so that they were closer to publication date. With the regular monthly comics this was done by use of early December/late December. In the case of Marvel Comics Presents, another method seems to have been applied, possibly due to there already being two, or sometimes three, issues each month. Issue #33 was dated November 1989 and was followed by issue #34 with a December 1989 date. But then #35 is dated November 1989, and with #36 we are back to December 1989. From #42 onwards only the year is given.

It should be noted that Marvel Comics Presents came out regularly on its biweekly schedule (or fortnightly for us Brits) with few, if any, delayed shipping problems.

It is possible to work out the correct month of each issue by comparing the shipping dates listed in Marvel Age, Previews, or other listings from the time. Some of the price guides have made such a calculation.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 51

Twice the Mutant Magic Cyclops hogs the cover of Marvel Comics Presents #17, but makes a little room for outgoing star Colossus.

Original cover art by Rich Buckler and Bob McLeod, courtesy of Heritage.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Marvel Comics Presents centered on the presence of these eight-page stories. Some fans expressed a distinct preference for replacing them with more serials, while some indicated how much they liked them. Many just wrote in with lists of characters they would like to see given that space, which tells us something.

The one-offs fell into several different types. Some, like the Shamrock story mentioned above, fulfilled the twin aims of giving opportunities to new creators while also establishing and maintaining trademarks. Some, such as the She-Hulk story by John Byrne in #18 (May 1989) or Nth Man (#25, Aug. 1989), acted as promotions for new, ongoing comics. In some cases, creators had pitched something they wanted just wanted to do—I suspect Bruce Jones’ Shanna story in #13 (Feb. 1989) fell into this category.

Some one-offs gave creators an opportunity to do something a little different with established characters. Often the same story would combine new talent with established professionals. Mike Rockwitz scripted a Steve Ditko-drawn Machine Man story for #10 (Jan. 1989). Chris Henderson wrote a Hercules story drawn by veteran Don Heck (#12).

52 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

A CHANGE OF MENU

As the serials from the starting lineup ended, they were replaced in like manner. The front spot was reserved for stories starring various X-Men. The first successor to Wolverine was Colossus. The two actually overlapped in issue #10 so that any readers buying the comic mainly for Wolverine would have the chance to get drawn into the Colossus story before they could jump off. With an intelligent script by Ann Nocenti, the serial, “God’s Country,” placed the Russian X-Man firmly in heartland America and portrayed and examined various prejudices. The art was by Rick Leonardi and P. Craig Russell.

After the Man-Thing story ended in issue #12, the second slot in the comic was taken over by a true epic.

“Panther’s Quest” was something very special.

This serial, starring the Black Panther, ran from #13 (late Feb. 1989) to 37 (Dec. 1989). Don McGregor, the writer of that serial, described in the text pages of the later Black Panther: Panther’s Prey series how “Panther’s Quest” came to be: “Michael Higgins called one night. He told me Marvel was going to start a new comic that would be published on a weekly or biweekly basis, and he was going to edit this yet-untitled comic, and he wanted to know if I would be willing to work on the book.” Initially the conversation was about Killraven [a.k.a. “War/Warrior of the Worlds,” from Marvel’s Amazing Adventures series of the 1970s—ed.] rather than the Black Panther.

Even that conversation almost didn’t happen.

McGregor related, “One afternoon, [Michael] confided in me, with that look in his eye of secret amusement, a joke between just you and him, that he almost hadn’t given me that initial phone call. Why and how come? were the first questions that popped into my mind. He’d heard that I was doing movies and people told him I wasn’t doing comics anymore.” In the ongoing conversations Higgins suggested McGregor write a new Black Panther Don mcgregor story. “And somewhere along the © Luigi Novi / Wikimedia Commons. way,” McGregor related, “I said, because it was true, and never believing for a moment that I would end up writing that story, ‘I had wanted to do a story with the Panther set searching for his mother in South Africa.’ This was not a sure-fire topic to win the hearts and minds of many editors. They’d never go for it! Michael laughed and slapped the table, ‘Okay!’ he said, enthusiastically, ‘We’ll do it!’ ” After Higgins moved on, McGregor was encouraged

by Tom DeFalco to keep working on the story. In a second text page from Black Panther: Panther’s Prey #3 (1991) McGregor revealed more of the genesis of “Panther’s Quest”: “Terry Kavanagh took over the editorial position on the newly named, now biweekly scheduled Marvel Comics Presents. When he was given the assignment, Terry called me and asked me to have lunch with him.

“I didn’t know Terry. I didn’t know if he was familiar with my work. I didn’t know what he knew about these new projects that I had finally agreed to write.

“I needn’t have worried.

“By the end of that first lunch, I was at ease with Terry; I instinctively liked him. I felt he understood how important it was to do an accurate story about apartheid that avoided the simplistic, that hopefully would bring alive human beings and not caricatures, as well as being a superhero story that would be exciting.

Bloodboiling Portrait Master of Kung Fu dream team Doug Moench and Paul Gulacy reunited to introduce Coldblood to the pages of (inset) MCP #26 (late Aug. 1989). Shown here is a 2010 Gulacy commission of Coldblood and Gina Dyson, courtesy of Dave Lemieux.

Art © 2010 Paul Gulacy. Coldblood TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

“Terry was, quite simply, a good editor. If he told me something MOVEABLE FEASTS one day, he didn’t forget he said it the next. He didn’t say one thing After the Colossus serial there were three more X-Men-related series that and then do another. He kept his word. He kept in touch with you took the lead spot. From #17 (late Apr. 1989) to 24 (early July 1989), when you were in the thick of the book, scared and exhilarated, original X-Men team member Cyclops starred in “The Retribution Affair” sometimes at the same time. He was supportive, and he understood by writer Bob Harras and art team of Ron Lim and Bruce Patterson. why I could not do a story where the hero whumps some bad guys This was a briskly paced adventure set in Scotland designed to appeal and nasty old apartheid goes away. He took the heat when others to X-Men and X-Factor readers. As the lead story, it also occupied the questioned the wisdom of doing a 25-part story.” covers of each issue by such artists as John Byrne (#18), Rob Liefeld inked Gene Colan came on board to pencil the series and Tom Palmer by P. Craig Russell (#19), Mike Mignola (#20), and Walt Simonson (#21). did inks. The story itself was set in 1985 rather than the year Cyclops was succeeded by Havok in issues #24 (late July 1989) of publication (1989). The use of a fixed date indicated to to 31 (early Nov. 1989). “Pharaoh’s Legacy” was written by the reader from the outset that this was a story set in the Howard Mackie, penciled by Rich Buckler, and inked by world they lived in. The four years’ difference meant Joe Rubinstein. It took Havok from the Australian outback to Egypt while also giving him a little romantic interest that the setting was the era of hardline apartheid along the way. The last two chapters also prominently under South African President P. W. Botha. By 1989, featured Wolverine, an indication of things to come.

Botha’s rule was ending and he was replaced by F. W. While the Cyclops and Havok stories were both deKlerk, who went on to legalize the African National fairly traditional superhero adventure stories, the next Congress and release Nelson Mandela from prison. lead serial was something a bit different. Excalibur, Don McGregor’s portrayal of South Africa under the mostly mutant team book spun off from X-Men, apartheid is subtle. The Panther comes into contact had already demonstrated some quirky humor in with a range of well-drawn support characters reflecting the pervading sense of fear and its ongoing comic by Chris Claremont, Alan Davis, powerlessness while at the same time trying to and others. In Marvel Comics Presents, that humor paul gulacy get on with just living their lives and looking after was pushed even more to the fore. The Excalibur their families as best they can. The 14th chapter in serial “Having a Wild Weekend,” commencing in issue Marvel Comics Presents #26 (Aug. 1989) addressed the controversial #31, was written by Michael Higgins, now in his freelance position, with art by the team of penciler Erik Larsen and inker Terry Austin. issue of necklace killings.

Larsen shares with BACK ISSUE how he came to draw this serial: “What I “Panther’s Quest” was the first series to break the anthology’s eight-page format. In issue #33 (Nov. 1989), an extra two pages was had pitched was a five-part Nova serial, which I was getting ready to work afforded the feature. Conveniently, the one-off story in that issue was on. I’d written the pitch and sent it to Terry Kavanagh. I’d quit my regular gig also written by McGregor, a Sub-Mariner tale drawn by Jim Lee, drawing The Punisher so I could finally get some credits writing and drawing.

Sadly, that one vanished when Fabian Nicieza was given the green light to allowing him to make the page-count adjustment accordingly.

The final two chapters, in issues #36 and 37 (both Dec. 1989), do the New Warriors [featuring Nova] and decided what I was doing didn’t were both double-length. Altogether, “Panther’s Quest” ran to 218 jibe with what he wanted to do. Terry offered me the Excalibur serial and pages. It had been announced in the letters page of issue #31 (early I took it because I had nothing else going. I had no particular love for the Nov. 1989) that the story would be collected in one volume. McGregor characters but it was a job and I needed a job. I got the plots and I drew them. always intended it as a graphic novel. The historical setting means it has “On the artistic front,” Larsen continues, “I made some decisions—like not been overtaken by events. The apartheid of 1985 is still the apartheid making all of the butting pages into multiple-panel spreads (reasoning of 1985 and anyone wanting to find out more about that era could that, since there were no ads in Marvel Comics Presents, there could start with “Panther’s Quest.” A collected edition was released in Janu- be no pagination problems), but as far as I knew, the plots were all ary 2018, thanks to the success of the Black Panther film. It still reads written prior to me being given the assignment. Since it was a ‘funny’ well and is worth seeking out. strip I stuck in a few Easter eggs, but largely I was just doing what I was Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 53

Larsen Double-Shot (top) From Marvel Comics Presents #31, a page from the inaugural Excalibur storyline written by Michael Higgins, penciled by Erik Larsen, and inked

by Terry Austin. (bottom) Erik and Terry reunited for this awesome team-up cover for MCP #50.

told to do.” Those Easter eggs ran from Grapes of Wrath to Bullwinkle via The Munsters and The Addams Family. There are plenty more to spot if you have access to the issues and want to check them out.

Larsen’s art style suited the comedic feel of the story but may not have been what readers of the regular Excalibur series were expecting.

There were two other serials that ran in the comic in 1989.

Coming in at just two episodes in #19 (May 1989) and 20 was an unsettling Dr. Strange story by Fabian Nicieza. With art by Mark Badger, “Nightmare in Suburbia” did just about what its title suggested.

It received quite a bit of positive praise in the letters pages.

Marvel Comics Presents #26 (Aug. 1989) introduced a new character, Coldblood, in a ten-part serial by writer Doug Moench and artist Paul Gulacy. Like Moench, Gulacy had been absent from Marvel for some years but returned with the Conan: The Skull of Set graphic novel and Coldblood, in quick succession. “I took a break from comics,” Gulacy tells BACK ISSUE, “and around that time I was living in the New York area working in advertising for everybody who was anybody. It was a lot of fun with big clients and products. If I’m not mistaken, I think the Conan job was first.”

Coldblood was more of a science-fiction strip with a cyberpunk vibe than a straight superhero adventure. It was also, like much of Moench and Gulacy’s previous work together, “always done through mutual collaboration,” Gulacy says. “I almost always have my nose in the storyline bouncing ideas around with Doug until we find something that gels. At that time Robocop was a hot movie in the theaters, and we took a cue from that—the whole cyborg thing, more or less.

Coldblood was a total collaboration from the get-go and yeah, if it was ever a film, you gotta throw the cyberpunk soundtrack in there for sure. I always play movie soundtrack music when I first read the script and start making notes as I visualize scenes. That’s my M.O.” Moench and Gulacy enjoyed the trust given to them by editor Terry Kavanagh. “He was a fan of our work and let us do our thing,” says Gulacy. “Great editor and awesome guy, hands down.”

Although Coldblood was an original creation for Marvel Comics Presents with no previous Marvel Universe connections, the character and his human identity of Eric Savin went on to be used in other Marvel titles such as Deathlok and Civil War, but by creators other than Moench and Gulacy. A Coldblood miniseries was announced in Marvel Age magazine at one point but never appeared.

The character has, however, had a life beyond comics… but not to the liking of Paul Gulacy. “I can tell you what happened to Eric Savin—he turned into Colonel Savin in the film Iron Man 3,” Gulacy remarks. “What really sucked is how he became a villain in the script that Iron Man threw through erik larsen an airplane window to his death, if you recall.

Leave it to Hollywood to screw things up. Doug and I actually signed contracts, but they decided not to pay us a dime because the Savin mention didn’t warrant any payment even with a Hollywood attorney in our corner.”

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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STAPLE DIET

Marvel Comics Presents #38 (Dec. 1989) introduced two new serials.

Both were solo adventures for popular characters from team books, and one effectively changed the nature of the anthology title.

Michael Higgins wrote an eight-part Wonder Man series that ran from #38 to 45. “Stardust Miseries” had art by the team of Javier Saltares and Jose Marzan, who portrayed Wonder Man/Simon Williams being seduced and deceived by the Enchantress. (He wasn’t the first and he wouldn’t be the last.) Although this was billed as a solo adventure for Wonder Man, in the course of the series several other Avengers appeared and Wonder Man’s own involvement was dramatically limited by his being not quite himself for most of the story. It worked as an Avengers story more than a Wonder Man story, but the readers seemed quite happy with that.

The other new serial was “Black Shadow, White Shadow,” which was the new lead story running until #47 (Apr. 1990). It was the second Wolverine story to take the lead, and from this point on Wolverine had a permanent presence at the front of the comic.

This was clearly a commercial decision, but a thoughtful one. There was much discussion in the letters pages about the merits of Wolverine becoming a permanent feature. On the one hand, given he already had a regular series, did the character need the extra space which could otherwise have been given to other things? On the other hand, Wolverine on the front cover certainly helped sell the book, and even those who weren’t convinced would have to concede that many of the stories that would appear were of a high standard.

“Black Shadow, White Shadow” was, stylistically, in the same vein as “Save the Tiger” from the first ten issues.

John Buscema did full art and the setting moved from Madripoor to mainland China. Wolverine continued in his role of wandering stranger arriving somewhere and resolving problems. The story this time was by Marv Wolfman, being his first work for Marvel in some years.

“They asked me,” Wolfman tells BACK ISSUE. “Sounded cool, so I said yes.” The inspiration was from cinematic classics such as Casablanca. “I liked putting him in exotic settings.”

The pairing with Buscema also pleased Wolfman. “Since I could not have had a better artist do this, getting John was just great. His art was always amazing.”

Bob Layton’s far future version of Hercules started a threeissue run in #39 (Jan. 1990). Following on from the two miniseries and graphic novel that Layton had, with some help from others, produced in previous years [see BACK ISSUE #53], this serial continued in the same vein. Both story and art were

by Layton. It would fit nicely into a collection of all of Layton’s Hercules stories, but as of this writing has been forgotten or ignored in the various editions that have been published.

The one-offs continued throughout this period, with more examples of Scott Lobdell’s scripts trawling the backwaters of the Marvel Universe. The Freedom Force story he wrote for #41 (Jan. 1990), with art by Dave Cockrum and Bruce Patterson, made use of a then-regular support team from the X-Men family of titles. Less familiar were Siryn (#43, Feb. 1990), with art by Larry Stroman and Sam Grainger; Arabian Knight (#47, Apr. 1990), which was drawn by Don Perlin; and Captain Ultra (#50, May 1990). All of these were interesting in their own way. The Arabian Knight story developed the character significantly and the Captain Ultra story was both fun and funny, and came complete with cameos by various comedians (Phil Silvers, Lucille Ball, etc.).

There were also other gems. Marvel Comics Presents #45 (Mar. 1990) had a cool story starring Shooting Star by writer Robert Campanella and artists Jose Delbo and Mike DeCarlo. More established writers took the opportunity to take detours with characters from their regular series.

Roy Thomas wrote a Dr. Strange story for #44 (Feb. 1990), which is really an opportunity for the Rintrah supporting character from that series to be given a brief time in the spotlight. Peter David contributed a Hulk story to #45, which was an unofficial Hulk vs. Hulk Hogan crossover.

Also of interest was a tale of the modern incarnation of Union Jack in #42, by writer Fabian Nicieza and artist Kieron Dwyer.

While some of the dialect and dialogue used doesn’t quite capture the portrayal of Union Jack as the working-class figure established by Roger Stern and John Byrne when the character was introduced in Captain America #254, the story was maintained successfully. In the same issue Jo Duffy wrote a strong Daughters of the Dragon story.

Hulks Smash! (top) Marvel Comics Presents #46 and 47, by Rob Liefeld and John Byrne, respectively. (bottom) The Hulk vs. “Hulk Hogan,” by Peter David and Herb Trimpe, from MCP #45 (Mar. 1990).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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She-Devil Unleashed Gorgeous Paul Gulacy pencils, inked by Gary Martin, for a Gerard Jones-penned Shanna the She-Devil tale from MCP #73. Original art courtesy of Heritage.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

The Wasp story in #48 by writer Marcus McLaurin and artist Eric Shanower was well conceived and executed.

Marvel Comics Presents approached the 50th issue milestone in healthy shape. Sales, as indicated in the internal statement of ownership, showed an average paid circulation for 1989 of 163,525. The original plan of producing a comic that would sell had certainly been achieved. The quality of stories had been good and there was plenty of variety and opportunities for new talent.

To mark that anniversary, Erik Larsen drew a special wraparound cover that featured not only the characters appearing in that issue’s four stories but every character that had appeared in the anthology so far. “I suggested it, actually,” Larsen tells BACK ISSUE. “By that point I’d considered the book a kind of home away from home. If I had a moment I’d do covers or draw short stories or whatever.”

Larsen also wrote and drew the three-part Wolverine story that reached its conclusion in issue #50. “Life’s End” was inked by Joe Rubinstein and was something of a return to the days of Marvel Team-Up, with Wolverine co-starring with Spider-Man. It also gave Larsen the

56 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

opportunity to show he could write as well as draw.

“Terry Kavanagh knew I could write,” he recalls. “He’d read my Nova pitch—so that wasn’t a huge risk on his part.

I don’t recall having written an extensive pitch for this one. I think it was more a case of Terry knowing my work and knowing I was the guy on [Amazing] Spider-Man, which made it easy.”

SECOND COURSES

From #46 (Mar. 1990) to 79 (June 1991), the second slot in the comic was reserved for a succession of intelligent serials, often quite mature in approach, that featured various left-field characters that were unlikely, at that time, to be given their own series but had a following all the same. The first of these was Devil Slayer in a four-part story that ran to #49. This was written by Marvel Comics Presents semi-regular Dwight Zimmerman and drawn

by Rod Ramos, with inks by Mark McKenna.

Bill Mumy and Miguel Ferrer wrote a sequel to their 1987 Comet Man limited series for issues #50 to 53. This was a dark story with elements of incest and sinister manipulation.

Original mini-series artist Kelley Jones was an ideal choice, with inks by Gerry Talaoc and Alfredo Alcala. Even with a cameo by the Fantastic Four’s Reed Richards, this story sits off at a slight angle from regular superhero comics.

Werewolf by Night had been a popular comic in the 1970s, but the main character had not been a star feature in some while prior to the story that ran from #54 (July 1990) to 59 (Sept. 1990). Len Kaminsky wrote the serial, and Jim Fry and Brad Joyce produced its art, for a visceral story that was designed to appeal to fans of the werewolf genre in general.

The Werewolf story was followed by another Steve Gerber creation. The character Poison had debuted in Web of Spider-Man Annual #4 (1988) as a support player.

From issues #60 to 67, the story “Vandals of the Heart” showed reluctant crimefighter Poison in action against organized crime. She was a single mother at a time when that was still relatively unusual in superhero comics, and Gerber gave focus to her struggle to go into action knowing that her son is unhappy at her leaving him.

Gerber was aided in this by some sensitive and evocative art by Cindy Martin. The main villain, the Slug, is an over-the-top crimelord—possibly inspired by Jabba the Hutt—but all other characters are subtly written.

The reader grew quickly to care what happens to them.

Next in line was a popular story starring Shanna the She-Devil, here given the shorter title of “Shanna.”

This marked a Marvel Comics Presents debut for writer Gerard Jones and a return for artist Paul Gulacy. Although shown on the back covers in her familiar jungle girl outfit, Shanna appears in civilian clothes in the first two chapters of the story. Even after that the character is portrayed as a smart, mature woman—not a girl.

Gulacy tells BACK ISSUE how the story came to be.

“I first met Gerard in a bar in San Francisco,” he begins.

“We were both guests at a con there. We spoke about working together because I liked his work.”

One of the distinctive aspects of their story was the full-page splash on which each chapter ends. Some of these would act as spoilers if described here, but a good example is a full-page bird’s-eye view of a meandering African river with a tiny boat in the center.

The sense of scale makes Africa a key part in the story.

“Gerard more or less told me to go for whatever I think worked,” Gulacy says, “not to mention what I would like to draw. I went with the creepy but serene river angle for mood.”

Unlike his Coldblood series, Gulacy’s work on Shanna was aided by someone else inking his pencils.

“Gary Martin was a local talent out here in Portland,

Oregon, who I became pals with,” says Gulacy. “He really knows how to listen and was quite good at understanding my style. We talked things over until Gary got a distinct idea of what I wanted and it turned out pretty good. It’s hard to find a good inker that listens under deadline pressure. Gary’s a pro.”

The Shanna story ran from #68 (Jan. 1991) to 77 (May 1991). Shanna would appear again a few months later but in the pages of a different anthology, Marvel Fanfare, with different creators and format. Would Gulacy have been willing to draw Shanna in more stories?

“I wouldn’t have said no to it. She’s an old school fun and sexy character.”

One of the more surprising tales, but a pleasant surprise to be sure, was the team-up of Dracula with Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandos in a threepart story in issues #77 to 79. Doug Murray was a great choice to write this, and the art team of Tom Lyle on pencils inked by Joe Rubinstein was spot-on.

The story was set in July 1942, with the Commandos parachuting into rural Rumania to destroy oil fields supplying the German war machine.

The Commando team of Fury, Dugan, Jones, Reb, Dino, Pinky, and Eric were faced with the question of whether or not to work with Count Dracula, knowing that he has committed great crimes but also knowing he will be a valuable ally against the Nazis. The Count, in turn, was given a comparatively sympathetic portrayal in which he was shown as a protector of the gypsy population that resided near his castle. At the same time, he was still the savage vampire readers may have remembered from the Tomb of Dracula series. I would happily have read more than three parts of this.

SERVED WITH SHARP UTENSILS

The regular Wolverine slot was filled with a mixture of shorter and longer serials. Rob Liefeld wrote and drew “The Wilding” for issues #51 to 53, with Fabian Nicieza aiding on the scripts for the second and third parts. It placed Wolverine in opposition to Wild Child from the pages of Alpha Flight.

Readers were given a puzzle to solve in “On the Road” in issues #54 to 61, as Wolverine seemed to be in two places at the same time. Co-star the Hulk was also confused, but not for long. This was another strong Michael Higgins script, with pencils by Dave Ross and inks by Dan Day. After the two-part “Sign of the Beast” in issues #62 (Oct. 1990) and 63,

by Dwight Zimmerman and Paul Ryan, the team-up theme continued as Wolverine met the Danny Ketch version of Ghost Rider. Howard

The Odd Couple Wouldja believe… a Sgt. Fury/Dracula team-up?? From Marvel Comics Presents #78 (June 1991), by Doug Murray, Tom Lyle, and Joe Rubinstein.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Mackie was the writer on the regular Ghost Rider series, which had been a big hit at the time, and stepped in to write “Acts of Vengeance.” This followed the crossover event of that name but did so in an interesting way by looking at how big superhero battles can affect the folks on the ground. Mark Texeira and Harry Candelario were the art team.

FAMILIAR FAVORITES

While Wolverine was holding down the lead slot and the quirkier choices were placed after that, there was, from issue #53 (July 1990) to 72 (Mar. 1991), a series of stories that used more traditional superheroes, many of which had ongoing series as well. These were produced by different creative teams to those working on the main series and tended to explore character as much as action.

Len Wein wrote a solid Stingray story for issues #53 to 56, in which the protagonist’s wife and relations were central to the plot.

Jim Fern penciled the story with Mike DeCarlo on inks.

The aquatic theme was continued after that with a Sub-Mariner story written by Robert Denatale in issues #57 to 59. Given that the character’s regular series was running at that time under the title Namor rather than “Sub-Mariner,” this and other appearances in Marvel Comics Presents under the Sub-Mariner heading would suggest some trademark protection was going on. The British art team of Mike Collins and Mark Farmer gave the story a polished look.

The Scarlet Witch took over in #60 (Oct. 1990) for a story mainly set in the days of piracy on the high seas. Rich Howell wrote and drew the story and seemed to enjoy both the pirate scenes and the Harvard-set framing sequence.

The Fantastic Four appeared in issues #64 to 68, with each member enjoying one issue in the spotlight before the finale.

Sandy Plunkett wrote the Daredevil story for issues #69 to 72, which meant that we also got a Plunkett drawn cover for #69. Plunkett’s story, “Redemption Song,” had, appropriately for a hero with enhanced hearing, a strong musical theme. Dwayne Turner penciled over Plunkett’s layouts.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 57

MCP’s MVP Barry Windsor-Smith was perhaps Marvel Comics Presents’ standout contributor from his celebrated Weapon X arc.

Shown here, courtesy of Heritage, is original art to story page 4 from issue #78.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

58 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

THE HOUSE SPECIAL

The high point of the entire run of Marvel Comics Presents has to be Barry Windsor-Smith’s “Weapon X,” which held the cover and lead story space from issues #72 (Mar. 1991) to 84 (Sept. 1991). According to the sales charts shown in Marvel Age at the time, these issues took the title back into the top five of Marvel. “Weapon X” was touted in some circles as the definitive origin story for Wolverine, but it should be noted that no such claim was made in the pages of Marvel Comics Presents itself. In fact, the comic was relatively hype-free. “Weapon X” had been mentioned once on the letters page in an answer to a reader’s inquiry and then listed in the next-issue section in #71.

“Weapon X” was not a definitive Wolverine origin story.

That would come from Marvel later. (Perhaps.) It was the story of how Wolverine acquired his adamantium-laced skeleton, but really it was much more than that. Barry WindsorSmith wrote, drew, and colored the series, as well as doing some of the lettering. That last detail is important as the lettering was used in a particular way not often seen in comics. The word balloons overlapped so that sometimes you couldn’t see what is written. The content could be worked out, but the effect is to render into comics form the overlapping dialogue of filmmakers such as Howard Hawks and to bring closer the effect of being there in the story.

“Weapon X” was about the moral choices that we all face on a daily basis. To what extent do we continue to do our job when we know that not everything the people we work for is for the greater good? How much are we brutalized by the violence of the world around us? What price do we place on loyalty?

Wolverine didn’t say a lot in the story, but it was all about him in every panel. Everything done by all the other characters was done in relation to what was happening to Logan. The pacing of the story in eightpage sections, with a final part of 24 pages, really worked, but it reads just as well in the collected edition. It has been in print almost constantly since 1991.

BITE-SIZED

Among the one-offs that appeared in the anthology were a number by Steve Ditko. The format suited his work well.

He could tell stories complete in themselves without having to concern himself with wider continuity. In most cases Ditko plotted and penciled stories for others to script and ink. That was the case with #7 (Sub-Mariner), 10 (Machine Man), 14 (Speedball), 54 (the Shroud), 56 (Speedball, again), and 58 (Iron Man). For a two-part Captain America story in issues #80 and 81, Ditko wrote the script as well, which meant that readers could decide for themselves what wider meaning the line “Your gangster policies of ‘good business’ make you unfit to speak of good or best in any business or human sense” might have.

For the Ditko-plotted-and-penciled Human Torch story in #83 (Aug. 1991), Erik Larsen dialogued the script and inked the art. He tells BACK ISSUE, “When I decided I needed to teach myself how to ink I called up Terry and talked my way into inking a Namor Annual by James Fry and a Human Torch story by Steve Ditko. Terry gave me a fair amount of rope. It probably helped that I was relatively popular and super-dependable. I would always deliver on time.

“I met Steve in Terry’s office at one point, but I didn’t have much to say. He seemed a quiet fellow. The Human

We’re Speechless (below) Really, what can we say about this Sam Kieth Wolverine original art (courtesy of Heritage) from MCP #90 other than… wow!? (left) The Ditko/Larsen art team, on issue #83’s Human Torch tale.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Torch story had a few pages of rough dialogue, but a few pages had been lost so I had to vamp for those. I used the stuff I could. His pencils were very sparse. There wasn’t a lot there to work with but that suited me just fine. That meant I had room to play around.”

Scott Lobdell wrote a great Lockjaw story for #68 that managed to be funny and moving at the same time. The Black Knight story in #73 was an interesting variation on Walter Scott’s novel The Talisman—in eight pages! The Hulk/Selene story in #78, with script by Dwight Zimmerman and art by Brian Stelfreeze, is sexy and funny.

MCP Rarity (below) From Heritage, original art for an unpublished Marvel Comics Presents cover by Mike Mignola. (right) Sam Kieth’s cover to MCP’s 100th issue.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

STILL HUNGRY?

The job of following “Weapon X” fell to Peter David and Sam Kieth, who produced “Blood Hungry,” which ran in 1991 from #85 to 92. Kieth adopted an exaggerated style for drawing Wolverine while keeping Tyger Tiger closer to the versions established previously. The story involved false or unreliable memories, and the creative use of visuals served the story appropriately. There was a thematic link to the “Weapon X” story, while at the same time moving the Wolverine series forward. Tim Truman wrote the next Wolverine story, starting in issue 93 with art by Todd Foxx and Gary Kwapisz.

As Marvel Comics Presents raced towards its 100th issue, there were more serials for mutant-related characters. With New Warriors having been a success [see BACK ISSUE #33], founding member Firestar was given a prequel story in Marvel Comics Presents #82 to 87. Marie Javins and Marcus McLaurin wrote the story, with Dwayne Turner penciling and Jose Marzan on inks. This didn’t work for some readers, but the emphasis on family and moral decision-making helped to develop the backstory of a character initially created for a television cartoon.

The ending appears a little rushed.

The Beast story in issues #85 to 92 was a good example of the development of new talent. It was originally to be drawn by Rob Liefeld, but after some Liefeld work on the first two chapters was taken over by then-newcomer Jae Lee. Scott Lobdell, now promoted from the one-offs, wrote the script.

In 1990 the anthology underwent a significant change from #90 onwards when the flip-format originally envisaged by Tom DeFalco finally came to be. This also marked the arrival of Ghost Rider as a second ongoing lead character. This somewhat limited the space to show other characters, but that was partly balanced by the way both Wolverine and Ghost Rider were increasingly being used in team-up stories. For example, the first Ghost Rider serial in issues #90 to 97 co-starred Cable.

The 100th issue in 1992 was a single story divided into four sections by writer Howard Mackie and artist Sam Kieth, who also did its funny front and back covers with Ghost Rider watching while Wolverine bore the brunt of a massive stone number “100.” Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr. Doom, and Nightmare shared the pages.

Still to come in Marvel Comics Presents was a great Man-Thing serial, Sandy Plunkett on Ant-Man, Gil Kane on Two-Gun Kid, and a lot more Wolverine. There were also the ones that got away— work commissioned for Marvel Comics Presents but ended up being published elsewhere. Those will wait for another occasion if BACK ISSUE readers would like the second half of the story.

Final word goes to the man who created the concept, Tom DeFalco: “I want to thank all the readers who ever bought an issue of MCP for supporting our new talent program, even if they didn’t know that’s what they were doing!”

With thanks to Tom DeFalco, Paul Gulacy, Al Milgrom, Ann Nocenti, Erik Larsen, Doug Moench, and Marv Wolfman.

IAN MILLSTED is a teacher and writer based in Bristol, U.K.

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TM

by E

d Lute

The late 1980s and early 1990s saw a plethora of grim and gritty anti-heroes enter the comics world. Superheroes such as Cable, Spawn, and (future killer of the Marvel Universe) Deadpool made a splash on the comics scene, selling millions of copies and becoming the poster children for ultraviolent comics. Every new character had to be grim, gritty, or both. Characters not originally conceived as edgy were getting forbidding makeovers: John Walker took over the mantle of Captain America from Steve Rogers and gave the Sentinel of Liberty a bad name; Aquaman got a harpoon hand, grew a beard, and got an attitude with a capital A; and Green Lantern Hal Jordan became Parallax, killing his loved ones in the process!

During this dark time for superheroes, Speedball the Masked Marvel bounced onto the scene and into his own self-titled series. He came with an upbeat personality, more like a throwback to the Silver Age-era Marvel heroes rather than the then-current crop taking over comics shops.

So, how did this light-hearted character get created at the same time as the grim-and-gritty anti-heroes?

Let’s take a look at Speedball’s introduction, his solo series, and why this Silver Age-esque series ultimately failed in the brutish Copper Age.

AN EVOLUTIONARY INTRODUCTION

Robbie Baldwin/Speedball was created by writer Tom DeFalco and artist Steve Ditko. According to DeFalco, “I came up with the original idea for the character and wrote a bible on him—which included his origin, his powers, personality, family dynamic, backstory, and everything else you needed to know in order to write a story about him. Steve designed the costume and also designed Robbie himself.”

At the time DeFalco created Speedball, Marvel Comics’ editorin-chief Jim Shooter was developing the New Universe imprint for Marvel Comics’ 25th anniversary in 1986.

DeFalco originally pitched the character to Shooter for inclusion in Marvel’s New Universe imprint because he thought Speedball would be a good fit: “I wrote the bible— although I originally called him Ricochet—and presented him to Jim Shooter for the New Universe.

Jim didn’t feel the character fit into his ideas for the New Universe and told me we should eventually do him for the Marvel Universe.”

The DeFalco and Ditko creation eventually made his debut two years later in The Amazing Spider-Man Annual

In the Mighty Marvel Tradition A young old-school hero, Speedball, bounces into the Marvel Universe in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #22 (1988). Cover by Ron Frenz (the intended Speedball artist) and John Romita, Sr. (inset) This article’s writer, Ed Lute (left), and Tom DeFalco (right), at a 2018 comic-con. Photo courtesy of Ed Lute.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 61

Ricochet, Away! (left) Cover to Speedball #1 (Oct. 1988). (right) Robbie is befuddled by his powers in the first issue. By Steve Ditko (co-plot/ pencils), Roger Stern (script), and Jackson Guice (inks).

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

#22 (Jan. 1988), but DeFalco made a change prior to publication. BOUNCIN’ SOLO DeFalco tells BACK ISSUE: “I changed the name. I didn’t like the way Ricochet After his appearance in Spidey’s Annual, Speedball bounced into his looked as a logo and thought Speedball was much more descriptive.” own series later that year. Although Speedball’s appearance in the The cover copy from the issue read: “Move Over Spidey! Enter: Speedball Annual was published first, chronologically the issue took place after the Masked Marvel!” Speedball was shown jumping in front of Spider-Man, Speedball #2. The Speedball series ran for ten issues, cover-dated with Daredevil looking on in the background. Speedball was even September 1988 through June 1989. It was primarily scripted by illustrated larger than the title’s hero. Who was this brightly garbed new Roger Stern, but plots and art were supplied by Ditko. Several of the superhero and what was he doing on the cover of Spidey’s Annual? tales were also penned by Jo Duffy. But Speedball’s co-creator DeFalco While Spider-Man and Daredevil were busy trying to solve the slayings was nowhere to be found. “I just didn’t have the time to do Speedball,” of several drug dealers, readers were introduced to Madeline DeFalco tells BACK ISSUE. “I was working as Marvel’s editor“Maddy” Naylor and her son, Robbie Baldwin, who were going in-chief, writing the monthly Thor comic, and doing a few to the theater during a trip to New York City. We learned non-comic-book things.”

As with many Marvel characters in the Silver Age that Robbie can turn into the teenage superhero Speedball the Masked Marvel. The story had Speedball follow and beyond, Robbie Baldwin had to balance his the trail of the same armored villains that Spidey and superheroics with his civilian life and everyday DD were tracking. The tale ended with the three problems. In the first story from issue #1, we met heroes meeting and stopping the armored villains.

Justin Baldwin, Robbie’s father, an attorney. Robbie’s The Spider-Man Annual was released during a time in parents argued frequently, which helped make him the late 1980s when Marvel produced interconnected relatable to comics readers who may have had this narratives for their Annuals, so this issue contained segments same problem at home. Most of the arguments were that were a part of the larger “Evolutionary War” story about Robbie’s future. His father wanted Robbie to become a lawyer and his mother wanted him arc, including the Spidey, DD, and Speedball part. The Evolutionary War story continues in Fantastic Four Annual to go into the theater. Having this problem helped roger stern #21, but Speedball’s part in the crossover ends there. make Robbie more relatable to readers than some However, Speedball’s part in the Spidey Annual other superheroes. was only getting started, because he was featured in a backup tale.

Roger Stern tells BI, “I always thought of Robbie as a likable, average This story was plotted and penciled by Ditko with a script by DeFalco. kid. And by average, I mean in comparison to Peter Parker, to whom Speedball’s first published solo outing was a backup story that had the he’s most often compared. Peter was always the smartest boy in school Masked Marvel save his mom from a mysterious stranger that wanted with genius-level intelligence. Now, Rob has a good head on his revenge on her. “We often introduced a new character in a popular shoulders, and he obviously has an interest in the sciences—otherwise, series before sending him out on his own,” DeFalco recounts. “I don’t he wouldn’t have been able to land that after-school internship at remember the reason why we chose that particular Annual.”

Hammond Labs—but he’s more of an everyman character. Where Rob The look of the backup tale and the upcoming Speedball series were is like Peter is that they both acquired their powers by accident, and of the result of the young hero’s co-creator, Ditko. But according to DeFalco, course, they were both co-created by Steve Ditko. Other than that, Ditko was not his first choice to illustrate the character. “I originally they’re really very different guys.”

The second tale in the first issue told readers how Robbie gained assumed that I would work on Speedball with Ron Frenz,” DeFalco recalls. When the time came, Ron was too busy, so I asked Steve if he’d his powers due to an accident with an extra-dimensional energy source be interested in working on the series and he accepted.” at Hammond Research Labs, where Robbie worked.

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“Robbie gained the ability to generate a micro-thin featured a story where Robbie saved his new classmate shield that covered his entire body,” DeFalco indicates. Monica from kidnappers that were trying to get to her The energy manifested itself as colorful bubbles. His father, a senator, through her. In issue #10 (June 1989), costume formed around him, so he didn’t even have to Speedball defeated mutated giant animals that were find a phone booth to change. Robbie also had the created by the villain of the issue, Clyde. A later retcon ability to absorb all kinetic energy directed at him and unsuccessfully attempted to tie Clyde to all of the villains reflect it with even greater force. DeFalco further that plagued Springdale during the series. explains that Robbie’s powers would cause him to Speedball got his first full-length story in issue #4 “bounce from one surface to another so that he would (Dec. 1988). The story concerned the murder of gain speed as he ricocheted about.” At first, any type Alexander Bow, Maddy’s former boyfriend, whose of contact would cause Robbie’s power to activate, body was found hidden inside of a wall at Springdale but he eventually learned to control it. Robbie High School. The story would continue in issue even learned that bullets couldn’t harm him #7 (Mar. 1989) and finally conclude in since they would bounce off. issue #9 (May 1989), the penultimate The first issue also introduces Niels, issue, with the revelation that upstanding a cat belonging to a Hammond scientist.

Springdale citizen Mr. Boder had killed DeFalco recalls, “[Niels] just seemed like Bow because Bow attempted to blacka fun addition to the series.” A big reveal mail him. in the second issue is that Niels had Stern enjoyed his time working been exposed to the same extraon the series. “I had fun while I was working on it,” the prolific writer tells dimensional energy source as Robbie, BI. “After all, I got to see Steve Ditko’s thus giving the feline the same kinetic powers as our human hero. During the rough layouts months before anyone series, Robbie would unsuccessfully saw the finished art. That was some attempt to capture Niels. steve ditko In issue #2 (Oct. 1988), Speedball faced the Sticker in the first story and the Graffiti Guerrillas in the second tale. Issue #3 (Nov. 1988) introduced readers to evildoer Leaper Logan in the first story, while Speedball assisted Chick Harris (a Chuck Norris homage) while fighting off thugs in the second one. Speedball defeated the Basher, a rookie cop who flunked out of the police academy and took out his aggression by attacking other peacekeepers, and the Two-Legged Rat, a cat-hating/cat-killing man in a rat mask, in issue #5 (Jan. 1989). (No cats were harmed in the making of this issue.)

The first story from issue #6 (Feb. 1989) involved Speedball facing off against the Bug-Eyed Voice, an unscrupulous insurance investigator who stole the items he was supposed to investigate. In the second tale, Speedball came in contact with feline aliens. Speedball distracted the aliens with catnip. Bonehead was the highlighted baddie in issue #8 (Apr. 1989), which also

Just for Kicks (left) Martial artist/ actor Chuck Norris starred in RubySpears’ animated TV miniseries Karate Kommandos in 1986. (right) Steve Ditko’s sly wink to the fast-footed fighter via the character Chick Harris in Speedball #3 (Nov. 1988).

Karate Kommandos © Ruby-Spears Enterprises. Speedball TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Kinetic Kitty And you thought your cat got into trouble! Niels the cat is spotlighted on this original art page (courtesy of Heritage) from Speedball #6 (Feb. 1989), by Ditko, Stern, and inker Bruce Patterson.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

choice stuff. I got a thrill each time I opened the envelope to see what Steve had delivered that month.

Part of me wishes that I had been able to stay with the series, and maybe even contribute a little to the plotting of the stories. But I was so busy at the time, writing [DC Comics’] Superman, Starman, and Power of the Atom, that I finally had to give up the Speedball assignment. And Jo Duffy had already written some stories for the series, so I knew that things were going to be in good hands.”

Ditko’s art on Speedball didn’t seem to have changed much from his early 1960s style, which was perfect for the look of this series and added to its charm. The new crop of artists to appear in the late 1980s and early 1990s, such as Rob Liefeld, Jim Valentino, and Whilce Portacio, drew their male heroes and villains as hyper-muscular and godlike, while their female characters looked like gorgeous bodybuilders in skimpy outfits. Ditko drew his characters the same way that he had drawn them for years—as ordinary folks. Ditko’s idiosyncratic art style help to bring a sense of realism to the artwork that was lacking in many of the other

titles available during this time. “Steve is a great guy— a real gentleman and a total professional,” says DeFalco.

“I always love working with him. I really did want to work with Steve again.”

The art fit perfectly with the lighter tone of the series. These comics could have appeared on a convenience-store spinner rack 20 years earlier and they would have felt right at home. And this wasn’t a bad thing. With all of the anti-hero comics being produced during this time, Speedball was just the right character for those who liked their heroes to act like heroes and not as unrepentant vigilantes.

“When everyone else is doing grim and gritty, that’s the time to try something different” DeFalco declares.

Terry Kavanagh, the editor on the Speedball series, tells BACK ISSUE, “The trend towards grim and gritty made Speedball stand out more.”

Even though the series featured a character that was unlike most of the other heroes published by Marvel at the time, Speedball didn’t seem to catch on with readers and was cancelled with issue #10. But readers hadn’t seen the last of our bouncy hero.

PRESENTING A SPEEDBALL FOR ALL SEASONS

After the cancellation of his series, Speedball began appearing in one-off stories in Marvel Comics’ anthology series Marvel Comics Presents (MCP) [chronicled elsewhere in this issue—ed.]. These stories were each a few pages long and were similar in tone to the solo series, but they weren’t leftovers.

Kavanagh tells BACK ISSUE, “Everything that appeared in MCP was specifically created for MCP—including the Speedball stories. I commissioned every single story in my 125 issues specifically for MCP.” Speedball’s story in Marvel Comics Presents #14 (Mar. 1989) had our hero battle a giant blue bird that tried to tickle him and make him sneeze by using his feathers. In MCP #56 (Aug. 1990), Robbie faced off against a group of thieves with die faces that embezzled money from a pizzeria named Slice and Dice. These tales were scripted by Duffy and plotted, penciled, and inked by Ditko.

For issue #85 (Sept. 1991), the Speedball story did not feature Ditko’s work. This tale, written by Scott Lobdell and penciled by Ron Wilson, could have appeared in the Speedball title since it was similar to Speedball’s other published outings. Issue #96 (Feb. 1992) presented another Lobdell story, but this time was penciled by Dennis Jensen. Speedball battled a character dressed like Groucho Marx who called himself the Class Clown. Once again, this is another story that would have felt right at home in Speedball’s solo series.

During the time Speedball was appearing in Marvel Comics Presents, Marvel also began to produce a series called Marvel Super-Heroes (Vol. 2). Just like MCP, the new series was an anthology series, but it appeared quarterly instead of monthly. Since the series was quarterly, each issue was assigned to a season.

Speedball regularly appeared in the series. His first appearance in the quarterly series was issue #1 (Spring/May 1990). He also appeared in issue #2 (Summer/July 1990), #3 (Fall/Sept. 1990), and #4 (Winter/Dec. 1990). While Ditko was involved with the tales in the first few issues, the winter issue gave readers another story by Lobdell and Wilson. Kavanagh recalls, “I believe the Scott Lobdell Speedball stories for Marvel Super-Heroes were created for the Speedball title. I don’t remember why Steve Ditko wasn’t involved.”

Issue #5 (Spring/Apr. 1991) and issue #6 (Summer/ July 1991) had the return of Ditko on plots and pencils with scripts by Duffy.

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A GOOD VILLAIN IS HARD TO FIND

“I don’t think there was any intent to do a ‘Silver Age’ character, just a good character,” Kavanagh expresses to BACK ISSUE. “I loved Robbie’s optimism and generally positive outlook on life. I really enjoyed that the series spoke to simpler times, in direct contrast to the darkening atmosphere of comics at that time.”

With a new character unlike any of the other new characters premiering at this time and the perfect artist for the job, what happened that this series didn’t even last a year? Only ten issues of this series were produced. Around this time, Frank Castle juggled three series (The Punisher, Punisher War Journal, and Punisher War Zone), plus specials and one-shots.

There were three main reasons that Speedball didn’t catch on with fans: lack of interconnectivity with the rest of the Marvel Universe, the absence of a continuing narrative in the series, and a severe dearth of compelling adversaries.

One of the hallmarks of Marvel Comics from the Silver Age to the present has been the interaction between the different heroes and villains. These interactions built an integrated universe in which any Marvel character could meet with any other.

That hallmark continues to this day, but unfortunately did not transition to Speedball’s solo series. Except for Speedball’s appearance in Spidey’s Annual, Robbie didn’t interact with any other Marvel heroes, villains, or supporting cast during the run of his series. “Once a new character is introduced, we tried to give them time in their own books to develop and grow before lending them out to other titles,” says Kavanagh.

Unfortunately, Speedball’s solo series wasn’t around long enough for him to interact with other characters.

This lack of integration worked against the series because it didn’t feel as if it was part of the bigger Marvel Universe. Speedball would get to interact with other characters after his series ended, but that didn’t help the series from being cancelled.

There was an unrealized plan to feature a crossover in the pages of Speedball, however. In a response to a letter printed in “Speed Reading,” Speedball’s letters page, of the eighth issue (Apr. 1989), editor Kavanagh hinted that Speedball would be meeting one of the X-Men in a future issue—no surprise since Marvel’s Merry Mutants headlined many of Marvel’s top-selling books during the late 1980s. But the Speedball series ended before this team-up could happen. “I don’t remember who [from the X-Men] we were going to use,” Kavanagh admits.

During the Silver Age, comics were usually purchased from a spinner rack. There were no comics’ specialty shops. Sometimes newsstands wouldn’t get the latest issue of a series, so someone who had purchased the previous issue of Captain America or Superman might not be able to find the current month’s issue. For this reason, comics didn’t contain continuing narratives. Also, comics editors of the time thought that only young children read them, so continuing plot threads were considered unimportant.

Speedball was not just a character that mirrored the Silver Age in content, but even the design of the issues reflected that earlier time period as was well. As with many Silver Age comics, Speedball was made

Titanic Teens Speedball joins a league of his own, in New Warriors #1 (July 1990). Cover by Bagley and Guice.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

up of several short stories (usually 11 pages each). Characterization was kept to a minimum, and except for the one storyline involving Alex Bow’s murder, we didn’t get much in the way of a continuing narrative to keep readers invested. Only three issues (#4, 9, and 10) contained full-length stories. Except for the previously mentioned storyline, the other tales were usually selfcontained and did not reference what came before. “The character seemed to lend himself to that approach,” Kavanagh tells BACK ISSUE. By the time the Bronze Age gave way to the Copper Age, storylines had become long narrative tales that stretched for months. Readers expecting to get this with Speedball were disappointed to find out that any continuing narrative was non-existent.

Unlike most of the characters from Marvel’s Silver Age renaissance, Speedball’s rogues’ gallery was made up of non-superpowered criminals and one-note villains.

Yes, in Spider-Man’s first appearance [Amazing Fantasy #15] his antagonist was a non-superpowered criminal only referred to as the Burglar, but in the first four issues of The Amazing Spider-Man we got the Chameleon, the Vulture, Dr. Octopus (arguably Spidey’s greatest nemesis), and the Sandman. Yet in Speedball’s first four issues we got unmemorable evildoers such as the Sticker, Graffiti Guerrillas, and Leaper Logan. Throughout the series we met the Basher, the Bug-Eyed Voice, and the Two-Legged Rat. None of these villains have ever appeared in another comic.

This surplus of forgettable adversaries worked against the stories, because there was no real sense of danger. For example, in Spidey’s early adventures, writer Stan Lee imbibed the stories with a fear that our hero might fall to his nemesis. You never felt that Robbie would be defeated by his evildoers. They were just one-note characters that never created an adversarial relationship with our hero.

NEW WARRIORS AND BEYOND

While a sometimes fondly remembered series, Speedball did not meld with the predilections of its era. After the cancellation of his solo series, Robbie joined other previously created characters Firestar, Kid Nova, Namorita, and Marvel Boy, with the newly fashioned Night Thrasher, to become the New Warriors. Tom DeFalco notes, “I added Speedball to the New Warriors because he was available, but didn’t intend to add him to any team when I first thought of him.” During this series Robbie grew as a character and got his much-needed exposure to the Marvel U. The New Warriors made a cameo in The Mighty Thor #411 (Dec. 1989) before making their first full appearance the following month in #412, fighting the perennial X-Men villain the Juggernaut. The New Warriors Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 65

Bouncing Around (top left) Page from the Speedball story in the anthology Marvel Comics Presents #85 (Sept. 1991), written

by Scott Lobdell, penciled by Ron Wilson, and inked by Chris Ivy. (bottom) A darker turn for Speedball, his Penance identity.

Civil War: Front Line #10 (Dec. 2006) cover art by John Watson.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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then starred in their own self-titled series, the first volume of which ran for 75 issues (July 1990–Sept. 1996). [Editor’s note: See BACK ISSUE #33 for our coverage of the New Warriors series.]

DeFalco enjoyed Speedball’s characterization in the team book: “I thought Robbie was a fun character with interesting powers.

I really liked the way Fabian Nicieza wrote him in New Warriors.”

During his time with the New Warriors, Speedball continued to be presented in Marvel Comics Presents and Marvel Super-Heroes.

Although he made several appearances after the original New Warriors series was cancelled, the Masked Marvel’s next big contribution to the Marvel Universe came during the 2006– 2007 Civil War miniseries. In Civil War #1, Speedball was part of a reformed New Warriors team that caused the Stamford disaster in which 612 people were killed as a result of the Warriors’ battle with the villain Nitro. The New Warriors (Night Thrasher, Microbe, and Namorita) all died during the skirmish, except for Robbie. As a result of the disastrous incident, Robbie began to have survivor’s guilt. Because of this, and the supposed loss of his powers, he gave up his Speedball persona. When he realized that his powers had not burned out but were triggered by pain instead of through an impact, he fashioned an armored suit with 612 spikes (one for each of the Stamford victims) inside that would cause him pain. By causing himself pain, Robbie would form explosive energy blasts instead of energy bubbles.

He took on the name of Penance.

Robbie first went by the moniker of Penance in Civil War: Front Line #10 (Jan. 2007). As a character who was created as a counterpoint to the grim and gritty superheroes, it is ironic that Speedball would become one of them. During this time, he even joined Norman Osborne’s government-sponsored Thunderbolts.

Eventually Robbie returned to his Speedball persona during Marvel’s “Heroic Age” and remained as Speedball ever since.

Recently as of this writing, Speedball even made his live-action debut in the pilot episode for a potential New Warriors television series. Calum Worthy portrayed Robbie Baldwin/Speedball in the episode that has yet to be picked up as a series.

With Speedball’s new exposure, it may just be time for a new solo series for this 1980s character to bring his 1960s charms to 2019. “I just want to say how much I loved what Steve [Ditko], Fabian [Nicieza], and Mark [Bagley] did with the character and always wished that I could have spent more time with him,” DeFalco declares.

The author would like to thank Tom DeFalco, Terry Kavanagh, and Roger Stern for their invaluable assistance with this article.

ED LUTE is a lifelong comic-book fan. This is his first (of hopefully many) articles for BACK ISSUE. He lives with his family in southern New Jersey.

TM

by J o h n

Tr u m b u l l

Let the Storytelling Begin (left) Ann Nocenti began her long Daredevil run with vol. 1 #236 (Jan. 1987). Cover

by Arthur Adams and Klaus Janson. (right) Mark Waid’s stint without fear began with Daredevil vol. 3 #1 (Sept. 2011). Cover

by Paolo Rivera.

Nocenti and Waid photos © Luigi Novi / Wikimedia Commons.

ann nocenti

mark waid

Ever since his debut in 1963, Daredevil has been a mainstay of the Marvel Universe. Tragically blinded in an accident, Matt Murdock’s other five senses are boosted to superhuman levels, enabling him to fight crime as both a lawyer and a superhero.

The following is a transcript of the “Writing Daredevil” panel I conducted with former DD writers Ann Nocenti and Mark Waid, from the 2016 East Coast Comicon in Secaucus, New Jersey, on April 17, 2016. It has been copyedited by Nocenti, Waid, and myself for clarity.

– John Trumbull JOHN TRUMBULL: My name is John Trumbull. I write for BACK ISSUE magazine, and I want to say welcome to both of our guests, both of whom had very significant runs on the Man without Fear, Matt Murdock.

We have with us Ann Nocenti. [applause] She wrote Daredevil from January 1987 to April 1991, a 60-issue run. [DD vol. 1 #238–291] We also have Mark Waid, [applause] who wrote Daredevil from September 2011 to September 2015. [DD vol. 3 #1–36, followed by DD vol. 4 #1–18] ANN NOCENTI: For how many issues?

MARK WAID: Well, here’s the thing…

NOCENTI: What did I do, 60 issues?

TRUMBULL: 60 issues by my count.

NOCENTI: Wow. TRUMBULL: And Mark did… you were thinking 57, 58?

WAID: 57, 58. But, but, but…!

Daredevil TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

TRUMBULL: Mark has done more consecutive issues.

NOCENTI: Ooooh.

TRUMBULL: An uninterrupted run.

WAID: [crying in triumph] Ahhh! Denied!

NOCENTI: Lose.

TRUMBULL: Those damn fill-in issues!

NOCENTI: Fail.

TRUMBULL: But! A distinction that you share is that you’ve both done more issues of Daredevil than a Mr. Frank Miller. [Waid and Nocenti exchange a fist-bump] So there you go.

NOCENTI: I mean, who’s counting, right?

TRUMBULL: People like me! [laughter] Comics historians.

Now, I think a good place to start would be to ask: How did you two initially get the assignment? Ann, from what I understand, you did a fill-in issue of Daredevil [DD vol. 1 #236, Nov. 1986] and then an issue or so later [DD vol. 1 #238, Jan. 1987], you were the regular writer.

NOCENTI: Yeah. It was Ralph Macchio, who’s an absolutely fabulous editor. You know, I think that some of the decisions you make early on in your career are a little bit naive, because you just are new to the game.

I think my first assignment [at Marvel] was, “Kill Spider-Woman.”

I went, “Okay.” And it wasn’t until years later that I realized that I only got that job ’cause nobody else wanted to kill her. [laughter] And then when you get your first letter from some little girl and Spider-Woman was her favorite character and you killed her, then it really sinks in, and I don’t think I ever killed anyone ever again.

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Living the Dream (top) Newbie comics scribe Ann Nocenti’s fill-in in Daredevil #236 (Nov. 1986, cover by Walter Simonson and Bill Sienkiewicz) led to her getting the DD writing assignment two issues later. (bottom) Original art to Ann’s story in #236, illustrated by the amazing Barry Windsor-Smith.

Courtesy of Heritage.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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And I think it was a little bit similar. Ralph tested me by having me do an issue of Daredevil, and then when I turned the script in, he was like, “Well, would like to take the series?” And in hindsight, I was so new to the industry, I didn’t realize, like, “Frank Miller, big deal,” you know? I was kind of like, “Oh, yeah, okay, I’ll read the back issues, and then I’ll do this…”

Fans come to me and they’re, like, “Was it intimidating following Frank?” Well, not really, because I was too young and dumb and innocent to know. I didn’t realize the significance, just like I didn’t realize the significance of killing a major character.

WAID: There wasn’t the significance to it then that there is now.

Frank wasn’t Frank then. Now he’s Frank, capital F. NOCENTI: Yeah. That’s true.

WAID: Also, in that period, you weren’t… there were no trade paperbacks, there were no collections, there was the sense that, you do it, and it’s out there for a month, and if it doesn’t click that month, then you do another one the next month. You don’t hit it out of the park this month, you do the next one. The idea that it’s always in print forever was completely alien to us.

TRUMBULL: That’s true. You never thought that this stuff would have a shelf life…

NOCENTI: Have a shelf life, right. I know, it’s horrible. It comes back to haunt me, when people bring me something to sign, and I’m like, “Man, I wrote that story in two hours hungover, I cranked it out, it sucked.” And now I’ve got to sign it as if it’s… What are they bringing this stuff back for? [laughter] TRUMBULL: We never forget! Mark, how about you? Did you pitch for the series, [or] were you asked to write the series?

WAID: I was actually asked to write it. Steve Wacker, who was my editor over at DC Comics on Legion and on 52, he and I had become good friends, and he liked my work a good bit. When he headed over to Marvel, he inherited the Daredevil title. And he asked me to do it, and I was very hesitant at first, because it’s been such a murderer’s row of writers, all those years, so first I have to compete with all those guys, and secondly, especially since [Brian Michael] Bendis came along and put his stamp on it, it’s been very noir. It’s a very noir character, and it sort of evolved into—this is not a slight on the people who’ve come after Bendis at all, they’re really great—but it’d become one of those books where you’d read it, and you’d need to have a stiff drink afterwards.

TRUMBULL: Yes. WAID: It’s very, very dark. And it’s not my wheelhouse. I can write dark, and I think we did write a lot of really dark stories in my run, but I said, “Look, if I’m going to do this, I kind of need the freedom to get back to the swashbuckling a little bit.” We’re not ignoring anything that anybody else had done, it’s just… that’s more my wheelhouse.

NOCENTI: Oh, wait. You’re the guy who put him on Prozac, right? [laughter] You put him on antidepressants!

WAID: You can’t actually… I would never put him on antidepressants, ’cause he would never… He can’t take them! It would screw with his system, right?

NOCENTI: That’s true.

TRUMBULL: That’s an interesting thought, yeah.

WAID: And so, that was… it was a gamble. It really was a gamble, because it was the first time that anybody had really tried to do it in a long time, as a superhero.

TRUMBULL: Probably the last people who did were Karl Kesel and Cary Nord. [Author’s note: Kesel and Nord worked on DD vol. 1 #353–364, June 1996–May 1997.]

WAID: Exactly. And we got lucky in that I was able to lean into and make a big deal in that first issue about how we acknowledge everything that happened. We’re certainly not putting the lie to his mindset or anything, but it just kind of reached a point where, I decided, we reached a point with Matt where he’s like, “I’m just tired of digging a hole every day. I’m going to fake it ’til I make it now. I’ve got to stop being…” You know. And that’s a valid way of dealing with depression. So that worked out really well, and, like I said, the gamble paid off, because it really genuinely could have gone so horribly wrong, because Daredevil had such a devoted fanbase of people who were very dedicated to seeing Matt miserable all the time. [Nocenti laughs]

TRUMBULL: And there are just so many horrible things that have happened in the man’s life if you just add it up, especially when you deal with the collapsed timelines.

WAID: Figuring it all happened in the last eight years, or something like that.

TRUMBULL: Right, right.

WAID: I can’t… It’s just not what I do. I just can’t… But it’s not to devalue anything else, I’m saying it’s not my strength.

So, luckily, with Paolo Rivera and then with Chris Samnee, that made everything work. If those stories had been drawn by just guys breezing through the office, without any real commitment to it, I don’t… I’m not fooled. This is not false modesty. No one would have paid attention to those comics. But we really had a good, bang-up team.

TRUMBULL: Yeah. You both had unique chemistries with the artists you worked with, and that’s something I’d like to touch on a bit.

NOCENTI: Well, I think writers of comics, we are nothing without artists.

We don’t even exist. We’re like ghosts wandering somewhere. It’s a medium that’s… it’s an art medium, and so you have to have that synergy. And I think for me and John Romita, Jr., we wanted to do a lot of, we did a lot of superhero stuff, which was different from Frank’s run for sure. And we both pulled from our lives, because we were both right there in New York. And so for me, it was there was the graffiti art scene, and there was skateboarding, and Hell’s Kitchen was really Hell’s Kitchen back then. We put in a lot of documentary feel to it, so there’d be like, “Yeah, let’s have a big superhero battle with Bullet and Daredevil, but they crash through an anti-nuke rally!” [DD vol. 1 #260, Nov. 1988] Okay, maybe that’s a little obvious, but… There was always some kind of visual subtext, and I think that came out of me actually not being that comfortable with solving problems through escalation of violence.

I mean, when you think about superhero comics, problems are solved through an escalation of violence. And I would always be like, “Ralph, I want to do an issue where they kind of just peace-negotiate.” And then Ralph’s like, “No, but you can have them escalate the violence until they’re clashing.

And then have them break through a peace rally.” So that would be my compromise with my editor, so I could put the subtext in there somehow.

So J. R. would have ideas. He was dating this girl, this big girl, with this wild hair. And she became Typhoid Mary. [DD vol. 1 #254, May 1988] [laughter] And J. R. would also come in with ideas. I think Shotgun is a character that was artist-generated. [DD vol. 1 #272, Nov. 1988] There are characters that are writer-generated, and then sometimes you just have a conversation with the artist and they’re like, “Yeah! And how about he could be this, this and this?” But then there are characters that came right out of J. R.

Rogues’ Gallery Among the troublemakers causing our hero grief during the Ann Nocenti/John Romita, Jr. run of Daredevil: (left) Bullet (issue #250), (middle) Typhoid Mary (#255), and (right) Shotgun (from #272).

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Shotgun was something that he was, “I really want to draw this guy!”

So that kind of synergy. And then Lee Weeks, for a long time, was my artist…

TRUMBULL: Right at the tail end. [Author’s note: Weeks started with DD vol. 1 #284, Sept. 1990, and continued on through issue #300 with the next writer, Dan G. Chichester.]

NOCENTI: And then… he was more interested in taking it down to the street, a street level. So he influenced the series in that he wanted to do more documentary-style, urban, street, a lot more naturalism…

Like, take Matt out of the costume more often.

TRUMBULL: Because you injected elements of surrealism in there, and you went in this whole other direction, when you had Daredevil with Mephisto.

NOCENTI: I think that came out of… I thought of Matt as a lapsed Catholic. In fact, Louise Simonson has this theory that there’s an awful lot of lapsed Catholics writing comics. [laughter] And I think… I’m a lapsed Catholic, Matt is a lapsed Catholic, and so, for me, it felt natural to take him to Hell. And also because he’s known as one of the most empathetic, compassionate [characters].

I was talking to someone about the [Daredevil] TV show—and I flat-out love the TV show—but when you hear the crunches of those bones when he’s beating somebody up, and I’m like, “Eww, I don’t know. That’s not really the Daredevil that I know.” And maybe it’s just an aural thing, that you’re not used to hearing in the comics, but that was like, “Wait a minute, he’s more empathetic than that.”

WAID: Yeah.

TRUMBULL: Mark, could you talk a little about how your artists influenced the stories?

WAID: Sure, absolutely. Paolo Rivera was the first one, and he was terrific. He’s exactly the kind of collaborator you want, too, because he doesn’t come on too strong, but he’s got ideas about what he would like to draw if you want to ask him. Which is great. He’s not calling me on the phone, giving me demands, or whatever. We both understand it’s a collaborative medium.

TRUMBULL: Right.

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Up to Speed This Waid-written, Samnee-drawn origin recap hails from 2014’s Daredevil vol. 4 #1.

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I just said, “Here’s a guy who has all of Daredevil’s powers, but the secret is he can also see.” [DD vol. 3 #25, June 2013] TRUMBULL: Right.

WAID: And we’d save that reveal ’til the end of the issue. And that’s all. We didn’t need him after that, or whatever. But the design was so strong on the character, and so great. He didn’t have a name yet, either.

He just had the [Japanese] character on his chest, and we went through a bunch of different names, looking for the right Japanese name.

And I found it with “Ikari.” Do you know why?

TRUMBULL: No. WAID: Because it has two “I”s. [“eyes”] TRUMBULL: [laughter] Oohh! I never got that.

NOCENTI: Oh, man! Zing!

WAID: And actually, the question of collaboration, of working together with artists, also leads us to the end, in a sense that, when we got near the end, it was Chris’ idea to just take him out of the Daredevil costume altogether for a few issues and put him in that awesome red suit. [DD vol. 4 #14, May 2015 (see inset)] TRUMBULL: Right. He’s fighting crime in a three-piece suit.

WAID: In a red three-piece suit with a black shirt, and it looked awesome. And then from there, by that time Chris, who is incredibly brilliant and incredibly smart and dedicated, just called me up and said, “I have run out of ways to draw radar sense.” Okay. All right.

NOCENTI: Oh, interesting.

WAID: “I’ve just run out of ways to do the visual interpretations that we’re looking at, so can we maybe find something else to do?” And it wasn’t a slight on the character we’re both very proud of. So, rather than stay on Daredevil with somebody else… I knew I’d found the right guy, you know? So we just decided to make a clean break, the two of us.

TRUMBULL: So you knew that you had both reached the end of the road? So you might have had more Daredevil stories to tell?

WAID: I actually did have a few more Daredevil stories in me, but it felt like… I didn’t want to do them without Chris. Because we’d built up such a partnership on that book. So, you know, someday. But I’m not in any rush. I still have a few.

TRUMBULL: Ann, when did you feel like that you were at the end of the road with Daredevil? Or were you?

NOCENTI: Umm… I knew. I mean… [to Waid] So you were also five years, I guess? Five years is a long time.

WAID: A long time.

NOCENTI: Part of it is, you kind of start wanting to see what someone else would do with the character. I mean, I know that’s a weird way to think, but I had done everything I wanted to do with the character.

Yeah, I had a few more [stories]. But… You know it. You know when you’re at the end of your run, I think.

WAID: Yeah.

NOCENTI: And it’s always exciting to see what the next writer will do, because you’ve been wracking your brain about the character for so long, and coming up with each little circuitous little thing you can do, it kind of becomes fun to see what’ll happen next.

WAID: Right. What’s the next direction it’s taking.

NOCENTI: What the next writer will do.

TRUMBULL: Right. And with Daredevil in particular, there seems to be a paradigm shift whenever somebody new comes on. “We’re going put Matt Murdock in jail!” “He’s going to be running the Hand!”

“He’s moving to San Francisco!”

WAID: And in this case, remember, we were getting ready to exit about the time that the TV show, the first run of the TV show, was coming up.

And so we knew that we weren’t going to be able to reflect that reality.

And nobody at Marvel said to. Nobody said to us, “Hey, you’ve got to put him back in New York tomorrow. You’ve got to scrap all your plans.” They would have let us keep going in our direction, but we’re pretty smart guys.

We know that there’s a Daredevil comic and there’s a Daredevil TV show, [and] it would not be the worst thing in the world if they were more similar. So that was part of the reason we took ourselves out of the running,

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WAID: It takes me three days, four days, to write a script, but the artist has to stare at it for four or five weeks. So I’m very protective of my artists that way. But early on, it became “storytellers.” We stopped the “writer/artist” credit, and we just made it “Mark Waid and Whoever, storytellers.” Because that’s a constant case of getting on the phone and talking these things through with these guys, and not making them do the heavy lifting, but making sure that they were involved with the story, because there’s no point in trying to tell a story that they’re not also interested in telling.

TRUMBULL: Right. Because you’re going to get better work if they’re jazzed up about what they have to do.

NOCENTI: And also, if you see the Mephisto storyline [sporadic issues from DD vol. 1 #263–284, Feb. 1989–Sept. 1990], when Johnny [Romita, Jr.] said, “I want to redesign Mephisto, and not have him be just this devil dude,” and Ralph said, “Go for it,” and he brought in the first sketches, and they were so great that you’re like, “Let’s spend a little more time in Hell,” because he had whole vision of Hell that just came out of Johnny’s brain. As a writer, you’re like, “Mephisto,” and here’s the little Marvel image of him, and then when an artist just goes nuts and opens a door like that, you go through it. You don’t say, “But I had something else planned for next issue,” No! You turn it into an epic.

WAID: Right. Ikari was not necessarily meant to be that big a villain, early on, but once Chris made the designs, we knew we wanted…

too, and then gave it over to Charles Soule and to Ron Garney, and they immediately [put him] back in New York, back in the very street-level stuff.

TRUMBULL: The costume’s more black…

WAID: Yeah, exactly. Looking more like the TV show. And that makes perfect sense to me.

TRUMBULL: Ann, did you feel any pressure at the end of your run to put the toys back in the box? Because you had him going away from New York City and into upstate New York.

NOCENTI: I don’t think I even had a conversation, because I was out of the office by then. Sometimes you don’t necessarily have a conversation with the new [team]. This isn’t Daredevil, but when I was leaving Green Arrow, I had a conversation with Jeff Lemire, who was taking over. I was like, “Sh*t, I just took all his money away, and destroyed him. He’s not rich, and his costume’s been wrecked, and…”

WAID: “Take it, Jeff!” [laughter] NOCENTI: And I said, “Do you want me to, in the last issue, give him all his billions back?” And Jeff went, “Ehh, no, leave him broke. I can deal with that,” and I was like, “Okay. Well, he does have this little safehouse over here…” So you have these minimal conversations where you’re just like, “Should I make him a billionaire again? Is that all right?”

And he didn’t want to play with the billions, because billions were uncomfortable. Especially, I don’t want to go too much into Green Arrow, but because in the New 52, everybody was supposed to be so much younger. You don’t really want an 18-year-old with billions, ’cause that’s an *sshole. [laughter] WAID: That’s an *sshole.

TRUMBULL: Another thing that you both did is that you both introduced a new love interest for Matt Murdock. Ann, you with Typhoid Mary, and

He’s Got Two “I”s (left) From Mark Waid’s first issue, Daredevil vol. 3 #1 (Sept. 2011), Matt Murdock meets Kirsten McDuffie. (right) Waid and Chris Samnee pitted the Man without Fear against the brutal Ikari in DD vol. 3 #25 (June 2013).

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you had a neat triangle thing. Or maybe a quadrangle, I’m not sure.

With all those personalities…

NOCENTI: Yeah, you can do the math of all the different ways.

TRUMBULL: And you, Mark, had Kirsten McDuffie. [DD vol. 3 #1, Sept.

2011] So what made you two say, “It’s time for a new love interest for Matt”?

NOCENTI: I think when you take over a book, you definitely take cues from what’s gone before. He had this savior thing going with Karen Page, rescuing the junkie prostitute, whatever. So it fit that he was attracted to bad girls. It’s not like he had healthy relationships with women, Matt Murdock. So between Karen Page and Elektra, the stage is set. And you can go a completely different way, and say, “How about he meets a really nice, sane girl?” And I was like, “Naah!” [laughter] That’s boring.

And at the same time, I think, this was the ’80s, and females in comics were kind of divided into different camps, you know? There weren’t a hell of a lot of really strong females. You had Sue Richards, who’s a really great wife and mother. You had the bad girls and the good girls. So in some ways I said, “Well, why don’t I do a female character that has all the different stereotypes in one person? And I’ll Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 71

Fearless A signed 1991 portfolio plate by Nocenti’s main DD artist, Jazzy Johnny Romita, Jr. Courtesy of Heritage (www.ha.com).

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just give her multiple personalities to pull that off.”

And then it just became, “Let’s have her heartbeat, and her sweat rate, and all these different little things, change.”

TRUMBULL: So she’s fooling his senses.

NOCENTI: So that she gives off different cues depending on which personality she’s in, and that way we really get to screw with Matt. And I think it worked out.

TRUMBULL: I think so, too. And Mark, where did Kirsten come from?

WAID: If you look back at the body of my work, there’s always a woman in the book, whatever book I’m writing, that is smarter than all the guys. It’s a paradigm that I like writing. And also, remember, I’m a believer in, if you’re in a shared universe, play the cards you’re dealt, and then when you’re done, try to put the toys back in the box as best you can. And the cards I was dealt were: Pretty much everybody knew Matt Murdock was Daredevil. [Author’s note: DD vol. 2 #32–33, June–July 2002, during the Brian Michael Bendis/Alex Maleev run.] He’d been exposed as Daredevil, and not only had he been exposed, but he’d not really done a very good job of putting that toothpaste back in the tube. So there was that angle, and I wanted to explore that more, rather than try to continue to make that a secret. And I’ve said this to Brian, so I’m not saying anything that I haven’t said to him, but it really sat wrong

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with me that when Matt is absolutely, positively, proven to be Daredevil and exposed, that a guy who bases his life on the law and justice and truthfulness, stands up and says, “No, you’re mistaken, I’m not Daredevil.”

TRUMBULL: Right.

WAID: That really just sat wrong with me, and it seems to me like Matt’s whole life had been about secrets up to that point, and I thought it was interesting taking it in the direction where he was like, “I’m going to try being transparent for a little while.” And so his whole shtick was to say to people, “I’m not Daredevil, but we both know I’m Daredevil, but I’m not Daredevil. But if— oh, you mean I get a free meal out of this? No, I’m not Daredevil, but please, by all means.” [laughter] And so with Kirsten McDuffie, I wanted that sort of twist on the Lois Lane/Clark Kent/Superman relationship.

She comes in and she knows he’s Daredevil. And so her whole thing is to flirt with him by getting him to eventually… “Just tell me you’re Daredevil. We both know you’re Daredevil,” [laughter] and him denying it in the silliest, goofiest…”Eh, you know,” but where they both know. That the hotness of, “We both know, but we’re flirting back and forth.” That was what made that fun.

And the thing I did about a year into it is, I gave her what I thought was, if I may, a really good speech about how he just assumes that he needs to break up with her because of his life as Daredevil, but she basically says, “No, we’re not… No, I’m breaking up with you because I don’t want to be the supporting character in your life.”

[DD vol. 3 #24, May 2013] TRUMBULL: “I’ve got my own stuff going on.”

WAID: “I’ve got my own stuff going,” which is not something that comic-book superhero girlfriends say very often, but is actually true. And again, just so much fun to play with her. And never, ever make it look like she’s going to become a superhero. Never, ever make it look like she’s anything but a capable lawyer in her own defense. I don’t know. I like writing that character a lot. That was a really long answer; I’m sorry.

TRUMBULL: That’s okay. She was a cool character.

She deserves the attention.

WAID: …And where is she now? I don’t know.

TRUMBULL: Still in San Francisco, or…?

WAID: Charles won’t tell me. He won’t tell me, I don’t know. He’s afraid to tell me. I don’t know.

TRUMBULL: Hmmm… Stay tuned. [Author’s note: Since the recording of this panel, Kirsten McDuffie has been seen in flashback in DD vol. 5 #17–20.] Another similarity I noticed in your runs is you both had Matt Murdock dealing not being able to practice law, or being actually disbarred.

Ann, that happened right before your run, during the Frank Miller “Born Again” storyline [DD vol. 1 #227–231], and Mark, you had it happen, I guess somewhere in the middle of your run, where he admits in court…

WAID: “I am Daredevil.”

TRUMBULL: And then the New York courts say, “You can’t practice here anymore.”

NOCENTI: I think a lot of that decision came out of living in Manhattan and the documentary feel of Manhattan and idea that there’d be a free legal aid storefront where he could help the poor. A lot of times… You think way in advance sometimes. I always knew I wanted to pit him against Foggy in a courtroom. So I was like, “Matt and Foggy are going to end up on the opposite sides of a court case where Foggy doesn’t even know he’s really working for the Kingpin.” So that was one of those machinations that you set rolling a year in advance. So you know where you want to go. You picture the scene. You picture the scene when Foggy figures out that he’s working for Kingpin and he’s working against Matt. And so you have that scene, and then sometimes you go all the way back

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and you go, “Okay, well, how can I get there?” So that was a big part of my decision to say, the legal storefront, and he can have his lawyerly brilliance but he has to have a proxy lawyer doing the job for him, which was actually based on my brother, who was an assistant US attorney in Brooklyn. And so I made my brother kind of a hero in the comic.

WAID: Ha! TRUMBULL: Oh, that’s interesting.

NOCENTI: And he’s my brother!

He plays basketball, and he tells bad jokes. [laughter] And that character is my brother. [Author’s note: This character was named David, and appeared for the first of four times in DD vol. 1, #251 Feb. 1988 (see inset).]

TRUMBULL: And Mark, you hit on a similar solution. You had, at the beginning of your run…

WAID: At the beginning of the run [DD vol. 3] it was, because he’s outed, he can’t go in a courtroom, because the moment he wins a trial, the other side just screams, “He’s a vigilante superhero! Mistrial, Mistrial, Mistrial.” So I gave the setup to him that I wish we’d done more with, “I can’t be your lawyer, but if you want to represent yourself, if your case is so hopeless that no one in New York will take it but I believe in you, I will teach you; I will coach you in being a lawyer.” I stole this shamelessly from a failed TV pilot called Rex is Not Your Lawyer. [laughter] Which nobody’s ever seen.

TRUMBULL: Was that Daredevil actor Rex Smith? [Author’s note: Rex Smith played Daredevil in the 1989 TV movie The Trial of the Incredible Hulk.]

WAID: No, it was David Tennant. David Tennant did a pilot called Rex is Not Your Lawyer with that same setup, and nobody had ever seen it.

You can see snippets on YouTube. Does it exist online in its entirety?

[Waid converses with an audience member who’s seen the show.]

2008, 2009, maybe? [Author’s note: It was shot in December 2009.]

There’s clips on YouTube, that’s all.

TRUMBULL: Well, that’s going to get a lot more hits on YouTube now. [laughter] WAID: I know! So that was the setup at first, but once we got into the idea that he was eventually going to reveal… The backstory, for those who don’t follow, is that by that time, he was being blackmailed by the Sons of the Serpent into doing what they wanted him to do, or else they were going to show conclusive proof that not only was he Daredevil, but that in Bendis’ run, he did some shady stuff, up to and including suing the guy who was claiming he was Daredevil, and making that guy drop the suit.

Which, again, really skeevy behavior. They were going to out Matt on all this stuff, and the only way he knew to turn over the table with everything against him, was to go into court, and say, “My name is Daredevil,” stealing their leverage. But that meant he had to trade away everything.

[DD vol. 3 #36, Apr. 2014] What worked to my advantage was a writer and TV producer named Marc Guggenheim. He’s the guy behind Arrow.

He and his wife are behind the Agent Carter TV show. Mark has written a lot of comics, he’s a friend. He’s also a lawyer.

TRUMBULL: I didn’t know that.

WAID: So I call him up and I go, “What are my options here?” Because editor Wacker and I talked about wanting to move Matt out to San Francisco at some point and doing a couple of years out there. “What happens? What are the realities of being disbarred? Can he practice law anywhere else?” [Marc G.] said, “He would only be able to practice law, if he was disbarred in New York, someplace he’s already practiced.”

TRUMBULL: San Francisco!

WAID: That’s perfect! San Francisco. So, yeah, we’re going to San Francisco. [DD vol. 4 #1, May 2014] [to Nocenti] And I think you’ll agree with me, some courtroom drama is okay in a comic.

NOCENTI: Oh, yeah.

WAID: But lots and lots of courtroom drama—your artist will want to kill you, your readers will want to fall asleep. It can be done brilliantly, but superhero comics are not made for that. They’re not made for guys in business suits sitting around rooms for page after page after page after page. So, a lot of this was me trying to get the best of the lawyer stuff and use the legal angle but try to paper over it in different ways we’d not done before.

Sounds Good to Us (left) The “noisy” cover to Mark Waid’s Daredevil vol. 4 #1 (May 2014). (right) It’s a Foggy Nelson breakdown on the cover of issue #5 (Sept. 2014). Art by Chris Samnee.

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TRUMBULL: How would you feel if someone like Bob Ingersoll from “The Law is a Ass” [sic] column, if he criticized the use of the law in a particular story? Would that affect you?

NOCENTI: I luckily had my brother checking it over… I had a lawyer in the family. So he checked over everything. And I would do a lot of research, and make it all up, and then he would look at it before it went to print, and he’d be like, “Well, technically, that’s called a this kind of a presentation, versus…” But for courtroom drama in a comic, you just basically want to make sure there’s huge, powerful forces at work behind the moments where you’re standing with the suits. So that you have to show a lot of out-of-the-courtroom moments with client, and with the Kingpin thing.

And also because Foggy, in some ways Foggy is Matt’s primary relationship.

WAID: Yep. NOCENTI: Consistent throughout all the years. The girlfriends come and go, the villains come and go, but it’s him and Foggy. So a lot of the courtroom stuff for me was about breaking Foggy’s heart. So as a reader, hopefully you’re going, “Holy sh*t! When is he going to find out he’s working against his buddy and working for the Kingpin?”

So you kind of hope that the readers aren’t falling asleep. But at the time, to make it authentic, you do have to put some blocks of copy, explaining at least the tenets of the basics of corporations, shell companies.

WAID: It was lucky that you had that connection with your brother.

Marc Guggenheim is a guy I would turn to very frequently.

NOCENTI: The other thing that’s just the beauty of Matt Murdock is that he believes in the letter of the law. He believes justice works, and when it doesn’t work, he takes care of justice another way. So that’s the beauty of the character, that it’s a head-on collision of ideologies.

Within a single day of his life.

WAID: He’s one of those characters that I genuinely believe that Stan [Lee] didn’t realize how brilliant a setup that was. It took like, 20 years for Daredevil to really find its feet creatively, but man! There’s so much there!

NOCENTI: Because he’s got the Daredevil thing, that he’s a daring dowhatever, and then he’s got that contradiction, but then he’s also got the lapsed Catholic wearing a devil suit, so you’ve got like three pretty strong contradictions in one character. He is an endless story-generator.

WAID: He is.

NOCENTI: And also, I think that’s why… Is there another character that has had such a consistent, over the decades, strong creative team?

WAID: A murderer’s row, I know. Yeah.

NOCENTI: It’s like, one after another, great creative teams. And isn’t the current writer [Charles Soule, DD vol. 5], isn’t he a lawyer?

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WAID: Yeah, he’s a lawyer.

NOCENTI: I haven’t seen what he’s done yet, but that’s kind of convenient.

WAID: There’s also something interesting about Daredevil, too, that is unique among superheroes, which is that his powers become less applicable over time. Because we all deal in screens now. That’s something that no one could have foreseen 20, 30, 40 years ago. Everything is on a phone screen, everything is on a tablet screen. Matt’s ability to see… The idea that he used to be able to read text with his fingers, that’s useless now.

TRUMBULL: You could hand him an iPhone, and he wouldn’t be able to tell what’s on the screen.

WAID: And I did that several times. Someone had something they wanted him to read, “Hey, look!” And he would try to play it off, like, “Oh, yeah, why don’t you summarize for me?” In every issue, I knew I was successful if could do a moment where his powers were able to let him do something that nobody else could do, and also, later on in that issue, his powers would be a handicap. A simple thing like, winning some amazing fight in a skyscraper, but then not knowing what floor he’s on.

[DD vol. 3 #29, Sept. 2013] [laughter] Or breaking in and busting up the villains, but not seeing the ticking screen behind him, “5… 4… 3… 2… 1…”, because he can’t see. So just playing with his powers was so much fun.

TRUMBULL: I think we have time for some questions from the audience…

AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: You said Daredevil’s powers… Can’t he, like, use sonar sound to make a map in his mind or something? So couldn’t he see if there was a bomb or someone behind the door or something?

NOCENTI: You know what’s weird?

When you said that, my brain, as an ex-Daredevil writer, immediately went, “Wait… He could do the schematics of the beams in the building and he’d know what floor he’s on.” But then I went, “Cool, that you do a story where he doesn’t know.”

WAID: Thank you.

NOCENTI: Because it’s like, yeah, you can always find a way to have his powers know everything, or you can have fun, and I thought, “Cool,” that he did that.

WAID: Yeah. I like the limitations. Your mileage may vary. My take on radar sense was always that it’s stopped by solid objects. So he can’t see behind a door, and it came to fore when I… I dreamed this story.

The only time in my entire career I had a dream about an issue of Daredevil that when I woke up, I’m like, “I’m done. It’s complete.”

Like, this is not one of those dreams that you wake up from and go, “Oh, that was a terrible idea.” I dreamed of Daredevil driving a convertible. [DD vol. 4 #12, Mar. 2015] In order to drive a convertible he’s got to use the billy club, the cane, on the accelerator and pedals, because he’s got to lift his head up enough to “see” over the windshield.

His radar sense doesn’t work out the windshield! It’s a solid object.

NOCENTI: [laughing] That’s great.

WAID: Radar sense bounces off it same as it would a wall.

NOCENTI: But you know what’s weird, when you’ve written a character that long, there are moments when I’m watching the TV show, and he’s up on the rooftop, and he’s hearing the fights and the conversations.

We’ve both probably done that scene, where he’s waiting to hear a certain thing, and part of you is like, “Mmm… Nah.” 74 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

Scarlet Swashbuckler A dynamite DD sketch by Chris Samnee, contributed by John Trumbull.

Daredevil TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

WAID: Yeah, I know! [laughter] NOCENTI: Yeah, you’re really going to take the bar brawls and the sirens and the screams, and how do you hear that, and then hear under that, and then under that.

And you’re like, “Okay, but…”

AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: When you were thinking about his powers, did it ever occur to you that if he taps the lock on a doorknob, that he could see what’s inside the lock with sound, and pick at it?

Because something like that would probably be cool.

WAID: [impressed with the idea] No, but…

TRUMBULL: …Do you need a pen, Mark?

WAID: I’m going to write that down! [laughter] TRUMBULL: [handing Waid a 3x5 card] Write it down.

WAID: That’s really funny!

NOCENTI: That’s an interesting thing. I could see it as a team-up with Catwoman!

A very nice heist story!

TRUMBULL: Absolutely.

WAID: That’s really good. We did a 120 issues between us, and it never occurred to us to use sound as an exploratory thing.

TRUMBULL: Now you guys have to get back on the book! [laughter] We’ve got to call an editor. Does anyone else have any questions?

AUDIENCE MEMBER 3: How do you feel about the changes to the Daredevil costume? Because you both worked with Daredevil in the red, but Ann, after you, they put him in the armor thing [DD vol. 1 #321, Oct. 1993], and after Mark, they put him in the all-black costume [DD vol. 5 #1, Feb. 2016)], so it doesn’t look anything similar.

NOCENTI: Well, I do think that the black looks better on TV. I think some of the decisions in the TV show come from basically what they can shoot, you know? Like, if you went with the bright, spandex, bright red suit, it would become a little harder, a little less believable that he’s not noticed when he’s running along the rooftops. So I think that decision is a filmic decision.

WAID: Yeah. And in the comics, he’s gone to a much darker, blacker suit, which… it’s fine. Matt doesn’t care. I mean, if Matt cared what he looked like, he never would have worn that yellow costume. I think the armor crap was a mistake. When he had a bunch of blades and armor and stuff sticking out… He wants to be quiet! That’s rule number one! He doesn’t want to make noise, because then he can’t hear himself think!

NOCENTI: Yeah. To go just for a second back to Green Arrow, they said, “We want you to do Green Arrow,” and they showed me drawings of what he looked like, with all that armor.

And I was like, “Wait a minute—he’s the stealth dude with the bow and the arrow. He should have less on! But sometimes, somebody says, “Well, he’s our tech guy. What if he was more like Iron Man and had this metal?” And they try it, and it didn’t work, and luckily they got rid of that. Maybe the guy who wanted to give Daredevil the armor had a good idea that didn’t work.

WAID: Right.

NOCENTI: So a lot of it is just being a little bit forgiving for all these dumb things we do.

TRUMBULL: It seems like also, that with a long-running character like Daredevil, sooner or later he’s always going to revert back to the classic form.

NOCENTI: And that’s a good point, because whenever people complain about how a certain character is treated, I always say, “A great character snaps back to form.” Go ahead! Try something new with the character!

A great character is going to snap back to form! So don’t get too upset!

WAID: Right. Everybody knows that eventually, Peter Parker will run out of money again. Everybody knows that the Fantastic Four will eventually be back in the Baxter Building. Eventually, like you said, all snaps back to form.

AUDIENCE MEMBER 4: When you’re writing a book like Daredevil for a long time, and you end up having to do a crossover with some other character, what is that process like, where all of a sudden across your desk comes, “Oh, we’re going to cross over here for an issue?”

NOCENTI: Well, as an editor, for many years as the editor of The X-Men, during my time with The X-Men, sales went up and up and up and up and up and up and up, to the point where everybody wanted to borrow an X-Man to put in their book. And to a certain degree, Chris [Claremont] and I wanted to do that, because you want to help the struggling book, especially if it’s a struggling book that you really liked that was losing sales. And so when the editor or writer would come in your office and say, “Can I borrow Wolverine to get my sales back up?” You’d be like, “What’s the story?” It was always based on “What’s the story?” If you said you wanted Wolverine in Moon Knight, give me the reason, and is it a good story? And then, sure.

So a lot of that was either writer- or editorial-directed. Sometimes it would just be an editor that would come in my office and say, “I really like this [creative] team and this direction, but we could use a little boost.”

And I’d say, “Well, Wolverine is too promiscuous these days. He’s all over the place. How about you use Colossus?” And people would go, “Colossus? Boring.” [laughter] And then they would deal with it, you know.

WAID: For me, it’s definitely true that Marvel, at this point, is very good about letting the creative people take the reins, and very rarely do they come down the hall and go, “By the way, you’ve got have Punisher in this issue whether you want to or not.” They will try to work with you to try to figure it out. If there’s a need for something like that, they’ll try to figure out a way to make that work. But by and large, if I needed a guest-star like Captain America [DD vol. 3 #2, Oct. 2011] or the Silver Surfer, who was my favorite guest-star in that book [DD vol. 3 #30, Oct. 2013], you’d just talk to the editors who are in charge of that character and work out a deal. And sometimes they’d say, “Yes,” and sometimes they’d say, “No, he’s off in space for eight months, you can’t do it.” It’s very flexible. There’s very little of somebody coming down the hall and saying, “Wolverine has to be in your book the next month.”

TRUMBULL: Would that apply to the company-wide crossovers as well?

Because you both had to deal with those. Mark, you did “Original Sin.” [DD vol. 4 #6–7, Sept.–Oct. 2014] Ann, you had “Fall of the Mutants” [DD vol. 1 #248–249, Nov.–Dec. 1987, and #252, Mar. 1988], and “Inferno.” [DD vol. 1 #262–263, Jan.–Feb. 1989, and 265, Apr. 1989] NOCENTI: We did “Fall of the Mutants: and “Mutant Massacre” [DD vol. 1 #238, Jan. 1987]. That was early on in the crossover game.

It was fun, because it was never enforced. We had a big editorial meeting, and it would be like: “Mutants, [in] these books, we’re going to Hell.

If you in your book want to have something as small as a couple of strange fires in the background but mostly ignore the crossover, [or] if you want to go big, full-on, take your book to Hell, and every single writer/artist team would play to the varying degrees that they wanted to. And nobody was given any kind of marching orders. And that made it really fun! Because it’s fun just to take your book to Hell.

TRUMBULL: You get to redesign Mephisto.

NOCENTI: Yeah, you get to redesign Mephisto. “Mutant Massacre” was fun, [and] “Fall of the Mutants.” These were all really fun events, and then, sadly, and maybe it was well intended or whatever, we went all the way to Secret Wars [II], and that became a little more, um… dictatorial.

WAID: Invasive?

NOCENTI: Yeah, like you all have to do this. And you can feel in that series, there’s a lot of great things about that series, but you can also feel a lack of joy sometimes, because a lot of people had to dump whatever they had planned, and they had to play in this playground.

So I think that the universe-wide events have to be played really delicately.

You have to at least make sure your creative team wants to play.

WAID: And they’re still good about that. Again, with Daredevil, they asked us to be a part of the “Original Sin” crossover, but that was really because Joe Quesada had a very strong Daredevil idea he wanted us to run with. And when Joe says so, okay. He knows a thing or two about Daredevil. But with some of the other crossovers, it really is— especially for the books that aren’t like Avengers or X-Men, the ones that are clearly driving these crossovers to begin with—they’re really pretty flexible about it. Do we want Black Widow to be a part of “Civil War II”? We couldn’t really find a way to make that work.

And they’re like, “Okay, whatever works. It’ll help your book, and it’ll help your sales, but if you don’t want to, if you’d rather just tell the story you want to tell…” They’re really good about that.

NOCENTI: Also, it depends on the writer driving the universe event.

Pretty early on when I started writing Catwoman, I got a one-page thing from [Batman writer] Scott Snyder saying, “I want to do this thing where Joker is torturing everybody that Batman loves. I really would like you to play, but if you don’t want to, you don’t have to.” But he outlined exactly

Weeks Comes on Strong Nocenti’s other main Daredevil collaborator was artist Lee Weeks. Here’s Lee’s original cover art—autographed— from DD #293 (June 1991), courtesy of Heritage.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 75

Blind Spot It’s 101 damnations for the Man without Fear as Mark, with artist Paolo Rivera, resurrects Spider-Man rogue the Spot in that same issue.

TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

what he was intending to do. He told me, “I want Batman to realize that he can’t love anyone, I want him to realize that he loves me [Joker], and needs me.” So we got early backstory on that, and I went, “Sh*t, I want to play.”

WAID: Yeah. “I can work with that.”

NOCENTI: “I can run with that.” And there were a few rules. There were a couple rules about how it would play, but basically, he was just like, “Have Joker go torture her.” And basically, I could have that happen in any way.

And it was, “Yeah! That’s a game I want to play!”

And sometimes you get one of those emails and you’re like, “I can’t really feel this story, and I don’t really wanna.”

And nobody gets mad if you don’t.

WAID: No. TRUMBULL: Were you always on the lookout for offbeat characters in the Marvel Universe for Matt Murdock to bounce off of? Ann, you had him fight Ultron during the “Acts of Vengeance” crossover. [DD vol. 1, #275–276, mid-Dec. 1989–Jan. 1990] Mark, you brought in the

76 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

Spot [DD vol. 3 #1], who’s one of the great obscure Spider-Man villains.

WAID: Love the Spot!

TRUMBULL: You had Klaw, who has sound-based powers… [DD vol. 3 #2–3, Oct.–Nov. 2011; Daredevil previously faced Klaw in DD vol. 1, #237, Dec. 1986.]

WAID: That was Paolo’s idea, by the way. Right off the bat, he was like, “Let’s use Klaw, Master of Sound.”

Perfect!

TRUMBULL: And you brought in the Shroud [DD vol. 4 #2–4, June–Aug. 2014] and the Mole Man [DD vol. 3 #9–10, Apr.–May 2012], who are both blind. There were all sorts of clever connections. Were you two just constantly flipping through issues of the Marvel Handbook?

NOCENTI: Yeah, definitely. There’s some of that. And sometimes it’s just a visual. You go, “Wow, that guy had a really cool visual and a dull power. How can I bring him back?” It’s fun, especially characters no one cares about are fun to bring back.

WAID: And I just love the puzzle solving aspect of it.

I really do like the puzzle solving aspect of “Here: Mole Man.” What do I do with that? What’s Daredevil versus Mole Man? Okay, that’s something I can wrap my head around. Daredevil and Silver Surfer. What does that look like? What commonality is there there? So yeah, that’s fun to do.

TRUMBULL: Would you feel pressure to put new twists on some of the villains we associate more with Daredevil, like the Kingpin or Bullseye? Would you have pressure to do that, or was that just something you were doing yourself?

WAID: It was something I was doing myself. We punted Kingpin until the very end [DD vol. 4 #15–18, June–Nov. 2015] just because coming on it was, “I don’t know any new way for Daredevil to fight Kingpin, so we’re going to punt that as far as we can.” But with some of the other ones… Bullseye [DD vol. 3 #24–27, May–Aug. 2013] was that, again, just kind of extrapolating, “Where was this character last time you left him in the Marvel Universe, and what can we do with him that’s different now?”

With the Owl, he’s been through so many permutations, I like the idea that he can—again, I stole this from TV… Have any of you seen the Hulk/Daredevil TV show, years ago? [groans from the audience] It was terrible, the Hulk movie.

TRUMBULL: Yes, back in the ’80s.

WAID: Starring Rex Smith as Daredevil. But in there, in that terrible, terrible thing, there was a great idea, which is that Kingpin, in that [version], presaging closed-circuit TV and CCTV all over the world, in that city, he had cameras everywhere, so there was no place that Kingpin couldn’t see. Which, to go up against a blind guy, was a great idea. So I just stole that lock, stock, and barrel for Owl. [DD vol. 4 #13, Apr. 2015] TRUMBULL: You can find inspiration anywhere.

NOCENTI: It’s interesting. The Owl story that I did [DD vol.

1 #264, Mar. 1989] came from a completely different place, which was that one day, Steve Ditko was sitting in my office and going, “Let’s do a story together. How about an Owl?” And you don’t say “No” to Steve Ditko. [laughter] WAID: No, no.

NOCENTI: You just go, “Whammer!” And Steve Ditko, who’s brilliant, went, “Let’s do a story together. I have an image of a lot of guys walking around Manhattan with bombs in bags.” And this is the ’80s. This is way before terrorist-whatever. And I was like, “That’s awesome.”

So that’s where that story came from, right out of Steve’s brain. And to clarify, the artist on the book was late, and Steve needed work that month, so Ralph [Macchio] thought a fill-in made sense.

WAID: That’s great.

TRUMBULL: Does anyone else in the audience have some questions?

AUDIENCE MEMBER 5: Could you just say a little bit about what Steve Ditko is like?

NOCENTI: Well, he’s brilliant. What’s interesting is that Marvel, back then, everybody was always hanging out in the office.

A lot of it was goofing around, and shenanigans, and gossip, and showing each other artwork. And Steve would come in, and he would usually make a beeline for Ralph Macchio’s office, who was my editor on Daredevil. And he would want to talk politics. He would always have some new thing he was thinking of, some socialist, anarchist, political thing.

He was fascinating to talk to. And that’s my biggest memory, and then, of course, the moment when he said, “You want to do a story together?” That might be like, a peak moment in life. It’s like, wow, I can die now.

TRUMBULL: And he was the guy who inked Daredevil #1, I believe, when Bill Everett blew his deadline on that.

WAID: Yeah, Avengers wasn’t supposed to happen.

TRUMBULL: Right!

WAID: Avengers as a comic was not supposed to happen. The premieres that month were going to be Daredevil and X-Men. And Bill Everett, who was working on the book [DD], just kept screwing up the deadline,

and screwing up the deadline, and screwing up the deadline, and with like, a week to go, Stan and Jack put The Avengers together at the last possible second, and then bought Bill Everett a few more months to finish Daredevil. And he still didn’t finish. So Steve Ditko did a lot. And that’s not to disparage Bill, but Steve Ditko did a lot of issue #1.

TRUMBULL: We should all have the things that we come up with in desperation be as successful as The Avengers. [laughter] I think that’s a good place to end it. Thank you very much to both Mark and Ann! Thanks very much, everyone! [audience applause] Special thanks to Cliff Galbraith and everyone at the East Coast Comicon [www.eastcoastcomicon.com], to Xum Yukinori for the loan of Ann Nocenti’s Daredevil run, to Dave Drew, Chris Evans, and Steven Thompson of the BACK ISSUE Facebook group for research assistance, and to Ann Nocenti and Mark Waid for sharing their memories and granting permission to print this transcription.

JOHN TRUMBULL is a man with many, many fears. You can find more of his writing on www.AtomicJunkShop.com.

The Owl’s Have It! (left) Spelling regular DD penciler John Romita, Jr., Steve Ditko stepped in to lay out the Nocentiwritten Daredevil #264 (Mar. 1989); Mike Manley completed Ditko’s breakdowns and Al Williamson finished the art. (right) Waid and Samnee’s eyeseverywhere Owl tale, in DD vol. 4 #13 (Apr. 2015). (bottom) BI’s own John Trumbull, Ann Nocenti, and Mark Waid, at the 2016 East Coast Comicon.

Courtesy of John Trumbull.

Daredevil TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 77

Find BACK ISSUE on

DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS

TM & © DC Comics.

BACK ISSUE #108’s Seadragon article attributed the character’s copyright to Tom Floyd and Carl Knappe. After press time, we were informed that Floyd alone holds the copyright, as Knappe passed away a few years ago.

In BACK ISSUE #104, there is a quote with an important part missing in my Darkseid article that requires a retraction: “I can tell you this… he’s clearly Kirby’s most significant DC creation.

When I wrote him in Adventures of Superman #595, I remember thinking that this character was almost too big to fit on a page. It almost diminishes him to simply insert him into a story or see him drawn on the page next to any other characters—even Superman.

Darkseid is bigger than that. As an idea, as a concept… it’s like he’s beyond what any creator could physically depict in a comic book. But, y’know, we keep trying.”

It’s written in the magazine as if Dan Jurgens said it. However, in the draft of the manuscript I sent you, Joe Casey was the source.

– James Heath Lantz BACK ISSUE regrets the errors and appreciates the clarifications.

A GIFT FROM THE GODS

It’s easy to love an issue that starts with a cover by one of my all-time favorite artists. Just stunning stuff by Mr. Rude.

Thank you, as always, for making my words look so good.

You seem to find the best images to illustrate my ramblings. If you can just ask everyone to get their “white-out” and change the “Desaad” in the first paragraph on page 10 to “Darkseid,” things will be much better. I blame it on the Auto-fill, even though I must have read the darn thing a dozen times.

James Lantz did his usual great job getting into the mind of Darkseid. It’s always interesting to hear how the creators involved feel about the inner workings of a character, and how the character has developed over time, especially one as evil and complex as this.

Mister Miracle, like all the Fourth World characters, will probably always be a conundrum. As Marc Buxton admirably documents, Scott Free has been the subject of a number of different takes, none of which has led to continuous success despite there being some fan-favorite creators involved at various times. It seems the only sustained success came on the coattails of the Justice League.

I guess we’ll see how he fares when the current critically acclaimed Mister Miracle maxiseries wraps up.

The Forever People article brings back fond memories for me.

Paris Cullins was doing all kinds of wonderful stuff for DC at the time, 78 • BACK ISSUE • Make Mine Marvel Issue

DIVERSE BI BUSINESS

Brian Martin’s article on Action Comics Weekly (BI #98) reminded me that during that magazine’s run, I was commissioned by Dick Giordano to write a plot for an Outsiders/Question crossover.

(The Question had not yet appeared in the DCU.) I crafted such a story, which I was told would be drawn

by Stan Woch, but the story was never penciled. I presume Action was restored to monthly status about that time.

BTW, though I cannot speak to the veracity of this statement, the scuttlebutt was that a major reason Action Weekly was cancelled was because the FedEx debt accumulated by the freelancers, to get their work to the office on deadline, had grown so large it was eating substantially into the magazine’s profits.

BI #104’s “Fourth World After Kirby,” made no mention of the New Gods’ guest appearance in Outsiders (third series) #21 and 22 (Aug.–Sept. 1995).

– Mike W. Barr

WHAT THE HECK IS “THE FOURTH WORLD”?

First, thank you for one of the most awesome covers to ever grace a BACK ISSUE. Steve Rude outdid himself on this one.

And another thank you for something I had wondered about for decades—namely, why is it called the “Fourth World”? While John Byrne’s explanation makes sense, I can’t help but wonder if Kirby himself ever had a definition of “Fourth World.” Or if he, like myself, just thought it sounded cool as all heck.

The various interpretations of Orion, Mister Miracle, and the rest are representative of the magic of comics. We can’t fold our arms and stubbornly say that Kirby’s New Gods are the “one true” vision. By doing that, we’re just depriving ourselves of good stories and art from those that follow. Every fan has their favorite creator, and for my money, Jack Kirby’s take on the New Gods was the best. But I’m surprised at how some fans refuse to acknowledge any other writers or artists beyond their favorite. Neal Adams was a great Batman artist, but he’s certainly not the only one. As other creators do their takes on characters, we shouldn’t deride their efforts. Maybe Paris Cullins, for instance, was no Jack Kirby; but then, Jack Kirby was no Paris Cullins.

TM & © DC Comics.

Send your comments to: Email: euryman@gmail.com (subject: BACK ISSUE) Postal mail: Michael Eury, Editor-in-Chief • BACK ISSUE 118 Edgewood Ave. NE * Concord, NC 28025

and I have always felt that Karl Kesel makes everyone’s work look its absolute best, so artistically it was a great match, in my opinion.

The story certainly seemed to skewer the Flower Power generation that the Forever People initially symbolized. Certainly by that point people were looking back at that era and asking, “What happened?”

I think that series did a fine job of examining that feeling in a superhero/ godly setting and the article did a fine job of articulating the themes of the series.

The rundown of the animated Fourth World was quite good.

It shows the breadth of Kirby’s reach and those cartoons probably have something to do with the continued use of Darkseid in particular.

These cartoons likely imprinted the characters into the general consciousness to the degree that the focal point of the Justice League movie is a Fourth World villain.

I guess anyone who has an inkling about the movie industry is aware of the number of projects that get lost in development, so it should be no surprise that something like an animated New Gods movie should as well. One thing I think is truly revealing about the industry is the fact that they chose Mike Mignola to do the development work even though in your article Mr. Mignola himself states he has no specific love for the characters. I am sure there were tons of people working in Hollywood at the time who revered Kirby and his work, but I guess that’s not a large consideration where they are concerned.

– Brian Martin

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Love the Darkseid article! He is probably DC’s greatest villain creation of all time. The inspiration from Hitler was a no-brainer, but I laughed to see Nixon as an inspiration as well! The things you learn from BI! Every issue is a treasure! Keep them coming!

– Michal Jacot Michal, regarding your “Fourth World” query, I asked TwoMorrows publisher John Morrow—who’s also the editor of The Jack Kirby Collector—and here’s what he said: Aahh, the age-old question, where’d the name “Fourth World” come from?

Some think it’s because Jack had four books (Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen, New Gods, Forever People, Mister Miracle). But that’s definitely not it.

Some think it was some kind of commentary Jack was making about Third World countries (i.e., this is the next step, the “fourth world”).

I think there may be some truth to that. But only a little.

But looking at his pencil Xeroxes, Jack even had “Fourth World” written on some early Demon covers. And he conceived Demon when it was becoming clear New Gods wouldn’t be around much longer. And I don’t think he envisioned The Demon as being related to New Gods, or carrying it on in any way.

So what does that tell us? I think it’s just that Jack liked the sound of “Fourth World” the way he liked “cosmic nullifier” and “negative zone” and the like in his ’60s Marvel stuff. It sounded more authentic because of the “third world” nebulous connotation. But at its core, it doesn’t necessarily have any real factual meaning. It just sounded right, and made for good comics.

So I think he just wanted a “hook” for what was finally “HIS” work, to distinguish it from anything else out there, especially anything he did with Stan Lee previously.

This new thing was his baby, it’d be groundbreaking, he wanted it to have a proper name, and he liked “Fourth World.” I don’t think we need to dig any further than that.

That’s my $.02 anyway.

Best regards, John Morrow

NOT A KIRBY FAN

Just a brief note with my thoughts on BI #104. The issue was well put together, but not to my liking. This is probably because I Captain America, Spider-Man, Thor, and related characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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have never particularly enjoyed Jack Kirby’s work (though I do have great respect for him as the creator of many of my favorite characters).

No need to tell me how wrong I am—all my favorite creators cite Jack as a defining influence, so I know I must be wrong… but I just never felt anything for his work. The only article that I really enjoyed Marc Buxton’s article on Mister Miracle—mostly because I did enjoy the Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League.

I know you have some great stuff planned for upcoming issues.

Looking forward to them!

– John Shaw John, it took me many years to “get” Kirby, especially his Fourth World, and we’re not alone. Truth is, regarding his DC work of the 1970s, I prefer Kirby’s second wave: The Demon and Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth. Still, I appreciate the grandeur of his Fourth World saga and was proud to examine it via the incredible contributions of BI #104’s contributors.

And re themes you might not connect with: The good thing about BI is, there’s always another theme around the corner… …such as “Alternate Realities,” the subject of BACK ISSUE #111, cover-featuring the 20th anniversary of ALEX ROSS and JIM KRUEGER’s Marvel Earth X! Plus: What If?, Bronze Age DC Imaginary Stories, Elseworlds, Marvel 2099, and PETER DAVID and GEORGE PÉREZ’s senses-shattering Hulk: Future Imperfect. Featuring CHARLIE BOATNER, TOM DeFALCO, DON GLUT, BOB LAYTON, ROY THOMAS, and many more! Featuring an Earth X cover by Alex Ross. Don’t ask—just BI it! See you in sixty!

Your friendly neighborhood Euryman, Michael Eury, editor-in-chief

Make Mine Marvel Issue • BACK ISSUE • 79

New Books!

MIKE GRELL: LIFE IS DRAWING WITHOUT AN ERASER (Softcover & Hardcover) From a seminal turn on Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes and creating the lost world of the Warlord, to his work on Green Arrow—first relaunching the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series with DENNY O’NEIL, and later redefining the character in Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters— MIKE GRELL made an indelible mark at DC Comics in the 1970s and ’80s. But his greatest contribution to the comics industry was in pioneering creator-owned properties like Jon Sable, Starslayer, and Shaman’s Tears. Grell even tried his hand at legendary literary characters like Tarzan and James Bond, adding to his remarkable tenure in comics.

This career-spanning tribute to the master storyteller is told in Grell’s own words, full of candor, optimism, and humor. Lending insights are colleagues PAUL LEVITZ, DAN JURGENS, DENNY O’NEIL, MIKE GOLD, and MARK RYAN. Full of illustrations from every facet of his long career, with a Foreword by CHAD HARDIN, it also includes a checklist of his work and an examination of “the Mike Grell method.” It is a fitting tribute to the artist, writer, and storyteller who has made the most of every opportunity set before him, living up to his own mantra, “Life is Drawing Without an Eraser.” By DEWEY CASSELL, with JEFF MESSER. NOW SHIPPING! (160-page FULL-COLOR trade paperback) $27.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-088-5 • (Digital Edition) $12.95 • Diamond Order Code: JUN182065 (176-page LIMITED EDITION HARDCOVER) $37.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-087-8 • Diamond Order Code: JUN182066 (This LIMITED HARDCOVER EDITION is limited to 1000 COPIES, and includes 16 EXTRA FULL-COLOR PAGES not in the Softcover Edition.)

KIRBY & LEE: STUF’ SAID!

(JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #75)

This first-of-its-kind examination of the creators of the Marvel Universe looks back at their own words, in chronological order, from fanzine, magazine, radio, and television interviews, to paint a picture of JACK KIRBY and STAN LEE’s relationship—why it succeeded, where it deteriorated, and when it eventually failed. Also here are recollections from STEVE DITKO, WALLACE WOOD, JOHN ROMITA SR., and more Marvel Bullpen stalwarts who worked with both Kirby and Lee. Rounding out this book is a study of the duo’s careers after they parted ways as collaborators, including Kirby’s difficulties at Marvel Comics in the 1970s, his last hurrah with Lee on the Silver Surfer Graphic Novel, and his exhausting battle to get back his original art—and creator credit—from Marvel.

STUF’ SAID gives both men their say, compares their recollections, and tackles the question, “Who really created the Marvel Comics Universe?”. Edited by TwoMorrows publisher JOHN MORROW. (160-page trade paperback) $24.95 • (Digital Edition) $11.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-086-1 Diamond Order Code: MAY182059 • NOW SHIPPING!

AMERICAN COMIC BOOK CHRONICLES: The 1990s

AMERICAN COMIC BOOK CHRONICLES: THE 1990s is a year-by-year account of the comic book industry during the Bill Clinton years. This full-color hardcover documents the comic book industry’s most significant publications, most notable creators, and most impactful trends from that decade. Written by KEITH DALLAS and JASON SACKS. (288-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $44.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.95 • NOW SHIPPING! ISBN: 978-1-60549-084-7 • Diamond Order Code: MAY182060

TwoMorrows.

The Future of Comics History.

Phone: 919-449-0344 E-mail: store@twomorrows.com Web: www.twomorrows.com

TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA

All characters TM & © their respective owners.

THE 1990s was the decade when Marvel Comics sold 8.1 million copies of an issue of the X-MEN, saw its superstar creators form their own company, cloned SPIDER-MAN, and went bankrupt.

The 1990s was when SUPERMAN died, BATMAN had his back broken, and the runaway success of Neil Gaiman’s SANDMAN led to DC Comics’ VERTIGO line of adult comic books. It was the decade of gimmicky covers, skimpy costumes, and mega-crossovers. But most of all, the 1990s was the decade when companies like IMAGE, VALIANT and MALIBU published million-selling comic books before the industry experienced a shocking and rapid collapse.

BACK ISSUE #111

BACK ISSUE #112

RETROFAN #1

RETROFAN #2

COMIC BOOK IMPLOSION

ALTERNATE REALITIES! Cover-featuring the 20th anniversary of ALEX ROSS and JIM KRUEGER’s Marvel Earth X! Plus: What If?, Bronze Age DC Imaginary Stories, Elseworlds, Marvel 2099, and PETER DAVID and GEORGE PÉREZ’s senses-shattering Hulk: Future Imperfect. Featuring TOM DeFALCO, CHUCK DIXON, PETER B. GILLIS, PAT MILLS, ROY THOMAS, and many more!

With an Earth X cover by ALEX ROSS.

NUCLEAR ISSUE! Firestorm, Dr. Manhattan, DAVE GIBBONS Marvel UK Hulk interview, villain histories of Radioactive Man and Microwave Man, Radioactive Man and Fallout Boy, and the one-shot Holo-Man! With PAT BRODERICK, GERRY CONWAY, JOE GIELLA, TOM GRINDBERG, RAFAEL KAYANAN, TOM MANDRAKE, BILL MORRISON, JOHN OSTRANDER, STEVE VANCE, and more! PAT BRODERICK cover!

THE CRAZY, COOL CUTURE WE GREW UP WITH! LOU FERRIGNO interview, The Phantom in Hollywood, Filmation’s Star Trek cartoon, “How I Met Lon Chaney, Jr.”, goofy comic Zody the Mod Rob, Mego’s rare Elastic Hulk toy, RetroTravel to Mount Airy, NC (the real-life Mayberry), interview with BETTY LYNN (“Thelma Lou” of The Andy Griffith Show), TOM STEWART’s eclectic House of Collectibles, and Mr. Microphone!

HALLOWEEN! Horror-hosts ZACHERLEY, VAMPIRA, SEYMOUR, MARVIN, and new interview with our cover-featured ELVIRA! THE GROOVIE GOOLIES, BEWITCHED, THE ADDAMS FAMILY, and THE MUNSTERS! The long-buried Dinosaur Land amusement park! History of BEN COOPER HALLOWEEN COSTUMES, character lunchboxes, superhero VIEW-MASTERS, SINDY (the British Barbie), and more!

AN ORAL HISTORY OF DC COMICS CIRCA 1978! Marking the 40th anniversary of the “DC Implosion”, one of the most notorious events in comics (which left stacks of completed comic book stories unpublished and spawned Cancelled Comics Cavalcade). Featuring JENETTE KAHN, PAUL LEVITZ, LEN WEIN, MIKE GOLD, and others, plus detailed analysis of how it changed the landscape of comics!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 • Ships March 2019

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(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 • Now shipping!

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(136-page paperback w/ COLOR) $21.95 (Digital Edition) $10.95 • Now shipping!

ALTER EGO #156

ALTER EGO #157

ALTER EGO #158

ALTER EGO #159

DRAW #36

All Time Classic Con continued from #148!

Panels on Golden Age (CUIDERA, HASEN, SCHWARTZ [LEW & ALVIN], BOLTINOFF, LAMPERT, GILL, FLESSEL) & Silver Age Marvel, DC, & Gold Key (SEVERIN, SINNOTT, AYERS, DRAKE, ANDERSON, FRADON, SIMONSON, GREEN, BOLLE, THOMAS), plus JOHN BROOME, FCA, MR. MONSTER, & BILL SCHELLY! Unused RON WILSON/CHRIS IVY cover!

Interview with JOYE MURCHISON, assistant to Wonder Woman co-creator DR. WILLIAM MARSTON, and WW’s female scriptwriter from 1945-1948! Rare art by H.G. PETER, 1960s DC love comics writer BARBARA FRIEDLANDER, art & anecdotes by ROMITA, COLAN, JAY SCOTT PIKE, INFANTINO, WEISINGER, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, and others! Extra: FCA, JOHN BROOME, MR. MONSTER, & more!

FCA SPECIAL! Golden Age writer WILLIAM WOOLFOLK interview, and his scripting records! Art by BECK, SCHAFFENBERGER, BORING, BOB KANE, CRANDALL, KRIGSTEIN, ANDRU, JACK COLE, FINE, PETER, HEATH, PLASTINO, MOLDOFF, GRANDENETTI, and more! Plus JOHN BROOME, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and the 2017 STAR WARS PANEL with CHAYKIN, LIPPINCOTT, and THOMAS!

Peter Cannon–Thunderbolt writer/artist PETE MORISI talks about the creative process! Plus, his correspondence with JACK KIRBY, JOE SIMON, AL WILLIAMSON, CHARLES BIRO, JOE GILL, GEORGE TUSKA, ROCKY MASTROSERIO, PAT MASULLI, SAL GENTILE, DICK GIORDANO, and others! Also: JOHN BROOME’s bio, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY!

MIKE HAWTHORNE (Deadpool, Infinity Countdown) interview, YANICK PAQUETTE (Wonder Woman: Earth One, Batman Inc., Swamp Thing) how-to demo, JERRY ORDWAY’s “Ord-Way” of creating comics, JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews the latest art supplies, plus Comic Art Bootcamp by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY! May contain nudity for figure-drawing instruction; for Mature Readers Only.

(100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Now shipping!

(100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Ships Feb. 2019

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(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 • Ships Spring 2019

BRICKJOURNAL #55

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #19 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #20

KIRBY COLLECTOR #75

KIRBY COLLECTOR #76

LEGO HEADS & TAILS: FELIX JAENSCH’s remarkable LEGO sculptures, from realistic animals to the human skull and amazing face masks! BRYAN BENSON’s detailed Kermorvan Lighthouse and how he built it from LEGO bricks. A spectacular Winter layout by DAVE SCHEFCIK! Plus: Minifigure customizing from JARED K. BURKS, “You Can Build It” instructions by CHRISTOPHER DECK, BrickNerd, & more!

Celebrating the greatest fantasy artist of all time, FRANK FRAZETTA! From THUN’DA and EC COMICS to CREEPY, EERIE, and VAMPIRELLA, STEVE RINGGENBERG and CBC’s editor present an historical retrospective, including insights by current creators and associates, and memories of the man himself. PLUS: Frazetta-inspired artists JOE JUSKO, and TOM GRINDBERG, who contributes our Death Dealer cover painting!

NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOES! Interview with JOSEPH MICHAEL LINSNER (CRY FOR DAWN, VAMPIRELLA), a chat with JOE SINNOTT about his Marvel years inking Jack Kirby and work at TREASURE CHEST, JOE JUSKO discusses the Marvel Age of Comics and his fabulous “Corner Box Collection,” plus the artists behind the Topps bubble gum BAZOOKA JOE comic strips, CRAIG YOE, and more!

KIRBY & LEE: STUF’ SAID! The creators of the Marvel Universe’s own words, in chronological order, from fanzine, magazine, radio, and TV interviews, painting a picture of JACK KIRBY and STAN LEE’s relationship—why it succeeded, where it deteriorated, and when it eventually failed.

Includes a study of their solo careers after 1970, and recollections from STEVE DITKO, WALLACE WOOD, & JOHN ROMITA SR.

FATHERS & SONS! Odin/Thor, Zeus/ Hercules, Darkseid/Orion, Captain America/ Bucky, and other dysfunctional relationships, unpublished 1994 interview with GIL KANE eulogizing Kirby, tributes from Jack’s creative “sons” in comics (MUMY, PALMIOTTI, QUESADA, VALENTINO, McFARLANE, GAIMAN, & MILLER), MARK EVANIER, 2018 Kirby Tribute Panel, Kirby pencil art gallery, and more!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 • Ships Jan. 2019

(100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Ships Winter 2019

(100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Ships Spring 2019

(160-page trade paperback) $24.95 (Digital Edition) $11.95 • Now shipping!

(100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Ships Spring 2019

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