Back Issue #57 by TwoMorrows Publishing

THE RETRO COMICS EXPERIENCE!

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An in-depth interview with former DC Comics president and publisher

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JENETTE KAHN ALSO: The birth of DC’s VERTIGO imprint

THE RETRO COMICS EXPERIENCE!

Edited by MICHAEL EURY, BACK ISSUE magazine celebrates comic books of the 1970s, 1980s, and today through recurring (and rotating) departments like “Pro2Pro” (dialogue between professionals), “BackStage Pass” (behind-the-scenes of comicsbased media), “Greatest Stories Never Told” (spotlighting unrealized comics series or stories), and more!

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(NOW 8x/YEAR, WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “Odd Couples!” O’NEIL and ADAMS’ Green Lantern/Green Arrow, Englehart’s Justice League of America, Daredevil and Black Widow, Power Man and Iron Fist, Vision and Scarlet Witch, Cloak and Dagger, and… Aquaman and Deadman (?!). With AUSTIN, COLAN, CONWAY, COWAN, DILLIN, HOWELL, LEONARDI, SKEATES, and more. New cover by NEAL ADAMS!

(NOW 8x/YEAR, WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “Greatest Stories Never Told!” How Savage Empire became The Warlord, the aborted FF graphic novel “Fathers and Sons,” BYRNE’s Last Galactus Story, Star*Reach’s Batman, Aquaman II, 1984 Black Canary miniseries, Captain America: The Musical, Miracleman: Triumphant, unpublished issues of The Cat and Warlock, BLEVINS, DEODATO, FRADON, SEKOWSKY, WEISS, MIKE GRELL cover!

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(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “Thrilling Days of Yesteryear!” The final DAVE STEVENS interview, Rocketeer film discussion with DANNY BILSON and PAUL DeMEO, The Phantom, Indiana Jones, Edgar Rice Burroughs’ heroes, Dominic Fortune, Sherlock Holmes, Man-God, Miracle Squad, 3-D Man, Justice, Inc., APARO, CHAYKIN, CLAREMONT, MILLER, VERHEIDEN, and more, Rocketeer cover by DAVE STEVENS!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “Dead Heroes”! JIM (“Death of Captain Marvel”) STARLIN interview, Deadman after Neal Adams, Jason Todd Robin, the death and resurrection of the Flash, Elektra, the many deaths of Aunt May, art by and/or commentary from APARO, BATES, CONWAY, GARCIA-LOPEZ, GEOFF JOHNS, MILLER, WOLFMAN, and a cosmically cool cover by JIM STARLIN!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “1970s Time Capsule”! Examines relevance in comics, Planet of the Apes, DC Salutes the Bicentennial, Richard Dragon–Kung-Fu Fighter, FOOM, Amazing World of DC, Fast Willie Jackson, Marvel Comics calendars, art and commentary from ADAMS, BRUNNER, GIORDANO, LARKIN, LEVITZ, MAGGIN, MOENCH, O’NEIL, PLOOG, STERANKO, cover by BUCKLER and BEATTY!

Special 50th Anniversary FULL-COLOR issue ($8.95 price) on “Batman in the Bronze Age!” O’NEIL, ADAMS, and LEVITZ roundtable, praise for “unsung” Batman creators JIM APARO, DAVID V. REED, BOB BROWN, ERNIE CHAN, and JOHN CALNAN, Joker’s Daughter, Batman Family, Nocturna, Dark Knight, art and commentary from BYRNE, COLAN, CONWAY, MOENCH, MILLER, NEWTON, WEIN, and more. APARO cover!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “AllInterview Issue”! Part 2 of an exclusive STEVE ENGLEHART interview (continued from ALTER EGO #103)! “Pro2Pro” interviews between SIMONSON & LARSEN, MOENCH & WEIN, and comics letterers KLEIN & CHIANG. Plus JOHN OSTRANDER, MICHAEL USLAN, and longtime DC color artist ADRIENNE ROY! Cover by Englehart collaborator MARSHALL ROGERS!

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Bronze Age Mystery Comics! Interviews with BERNIE WRIGHTSON, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, GERRY TALAOC, DC mystery writer LORE SHOBERG, MARK EVANIER and DAN SPIEGLE discuss Scooby-Doo, Charlton chiller anthologies, Black Orchid, Madame Xanadu art and commentary by TONY DeZUNIGA, MIKE KALUTA, VAL MAYERIK, DAVID MICHELINIE, MATT WAGNER, and a rare cover painting by WRIGHTSON!

“Gods!” Takes an in-depth look at WALTER SIMONSON’s Thor, the Thunder God in the Bronze Age, “Pro2Pro” interview with TOM DeFALCO and RON FRENZ, Hercules: Prince of Power, Moondragon, Three Ways to End the New Gods Saga, exclusive interview with fantasy writer MICHAEL MOORCOCK, art and commentary by GERRY CONWAY, JACK KIRBY, BOB LAYTON, and more, with a swingin’ Thor cover by SIMONSON!

“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

“Licensed Comics”! Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Man from Atlantis, DC’s Edgar Rice Burroughs backups (John Carter, Pellucidar, Carson of Venus), Marvel’s Warlord of Mars, and an interview with CAROL SERLING, wife of ROD SERLING. With art and commentary from ANDERSON, BYRNE, CLAREMONT, DORMAN, DUURSEMA, KALUTA, MILLER, OSTRANDER, and more. Cover by BRIAN KOSCHACK.

“Avengers Assemble!” Writer ROGER STERN’S acclaimed 1980s Avengers run, West Coast Avengers, early Avengers toys, and histories of Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Wonder Man, with art and commentary from JOHN and SAL BUSCEMA, JOHN BYRNE, BRETT BREEDING, TOM DeFALCO, STEVE ENGLEHART, BOB HALL, AL MILGROM, TOM MORGAN, TOM PALMER, JOE SINNOTT, and more. PÉREZ cover!

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Volume 1, Number 57 July 2012 Celebrating the Best Comics of the '70s, '80s, '90s, and Beyond!

The Retro Comics Experience!

EDITOR-IN-CHIEF Michael Eury PUBLISHER John Morrow DESIGNER Rich J. Fowlks

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COVER DESIGNER Michael Kronenberg PROOFREADER Rob Smentek SPECIAL THANKS Karen Berger Alex Boney John Costanza DC Comics Jim Engel Mike Gold Grand Comic-Book Database Robert Greenberger Jack C. Harris Karl Heitmueller Andy Helfer Heritage Comics Auctions Alec Holland Nicole Hollander Paul Levitz

Andy Mangels Nightscream Jerry Ordway Max Romero Bob Rozakis Beau Smith Roy Thomas Bob Wayne Brett Weiss John Wells Marv Wolfman Eddy Zeno AND VERY SPECIAL THANKS TO Jenette Kahn

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TED RELA ICSCOM NALISM T S BE JOUR

BACK SEAT DRIVER: Editorial by Michael Eury . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 INTERVIEW: The Path of Kahn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 A step-by-step survey of the storied career of Jenette Kahn, former DC Comics president and publisher, with interviewer Bob Greenberger FLASHBACK: Dollar Comics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .39 This four-quarter, four-color funfest produced many unforgettable late-’70s DCs PRINCE STREET NEWS: Implosion Happy Hour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .42 Ever wonder how the canceled characters reacted to the DC Implosion? Karl Heitmueller bellies up to the bar with them to find out GREATEST STORIES NEVER TOLD: The Lost DC Kids Line . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .45 Sugar & Spike, Thunder and Bludd, and the Oddballs were part of DC’s axed juvie imprint BACKSTAGE PASS: A Heroine History of the Wonder Woman Foundation . . . . . . . . .48 The first Amazonian charity and its honoring of real-life wonder women FLASHBACK: In Search of Social Issues: The Real and Fictional Heroes of DC Comics . . .56 Comic-book characters as rescue-rangers in “real world” dangers BEYOND CAPES: From Such Great Heights: The Birth of Vertigo Comics . . . . . . . . . .61 The evolution of DC’s cutting-edge imprint. With Karen Berger INTERVIEW: Wayne’s Manner . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .75 A conversation with Bob Wayne, comics retailer-turned-DC Comics executive TRIBUTE: Remembering Eduardo Barreto . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .78 The New Teen Titans and Judge Parker artist has died at 57 BACK TALK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 Reader feedback BACK ISSUE™ is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614. Michael Eury, Editor-in-Chief. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: BACK ISSUE, c/o Michael Eury, Editor, 118 Edgewood Avenue NE, Concord, NC 28025. Email: euryman@gmail.com. Six-issue subscriptions: $60 Standard US, $85 Canada, $107 Surface International. Please send subscription orders and funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial office. Cover design by Michael Kronenberg. Cover characters are TM & © DC Comics. All Rights Reserved. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © 2012 Michael Eury and TwoMorrows Publishing. BACK ISSUE is a TM of TwoMorrows Publishing. ISSN 1932-6904. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING. Jenette Kahn Issue

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SUBMISSION GUIDELINES BACK ISSUE is on the lookout for the following comics-related material from the 1970s through the 1990s: • • • • • • •

Unpublished artwork and covers Commissions (color or B&W) and professional-quality specialty drawings 1970s–1990s creator and convention photographs Character designs and model sheets Original art: covers and significant interior pages Little-seen fanzine material Other rarities

If you have any of the above materials, please query the editor via email prior to submission. Art contributors will be acknowledged in print and receive a complimentary copy of the issue.

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Since BI is a full-color publication, preference is given to color artwork. Random convention sketches and “quick sketches” that do not reflect an artist’s best work and were not intended for print will no longer be considered for publication. BACK ISSUE does not read or consider unsolicited manuscripts. However, we routinely welcome new writers to our magazine, and have done so since day one! If you’re interested in writing for BI, please request a copy of the BACK ISSUE Writer’s Style Guide by emailing the editor at euryman@gmail.com. Contact BI at: Michael Eury, Editor, BACK ISSUE 118 Edgewood Ave. NE Concord, NC 28025

Michael Eury

TM & © DC Comics.

Jenette Kahn was surprised to discover that this entire issue is dedicated to her career as the publisher, president, and editor-in-chief of DC Comics. My former boss (I was a DC editor from 1989 through 1992) is simply being modest. We could have dedicated several issues to the innovations that happened on her watch, which began in 1976 and ended ten years ago, in 2002. If you look back through our nine years in print, almost every edition of BACK ISSUE contains at least one article about a DC series published during that period. Jenette wasn’t the kind of leader who insisted that writers and artists march in step to a continuity bible, nor did she lord over the shoulders of her editors, eager to blue-pencil or deep-six their work if it didn’t match her vision. Instead, she inspired and encouraged her staff and creators, and through her passion for quality she helped reshape DC Comics into the industry leader for comics as an art form. One wonders, if Warner Publishing Chairman Bill Sarnoff had not tapped this young woman from children’s magazines to shake up the old boys club of DC Comics of 1976, would we, in later years, have seen the emergence of such landmark series as Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing and Frank Miller’s Batman: The Dark Knight Returns? A BIG thank-you to Robert Greenberger for his in-depth interview with Ms. Kahn. Bob’s discussions with Jenette were so up close and personal, you’ll feel that you’re in the room with them (just don’t be tempted to ask a question—talking to a magazine, be it in print or digital form, might earn you a stay at Arkham Asylum). This is our longest interview ever in this magazine, and every word is pure gold. The articles following the Jenette Kahn interview complement it by exploring some of the milestones that occurred during her tenure. Many of you have been asking for a Dollar Comics article, so that should be a crowdpleaser. Karl Heitmueller’s “Prince Street News” about the DC Implosion is a gut-buster—I’ve read it multiple times and it still cracks me up! Andy Mangels’ Wonder Woman Foundation piece sheds light on a very important project that most of us knew very little about. And among the other gems in this issue is Alex Boney’s exploration of the development of DC’s Vertigo imprint, which includes candid and sincerely appreciated insights from Karen Berger. To set the pace for the DC doings in these pages that follow, I’ll close this editorial with a lettercol from 1984’s Saga of the Swamp Thing #30, featuring a missive from a fan who, nearly 30 years later, is still writing about DC Comics of the day…

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Robert Greenberger

a Transcribed by Brian K. Morris. Conducted over h period of weeks beginning May 13, 2011 throug September 16, 2011. Interview edited by Greenberger and Kahn, with thanks to Paul Levitz.

The comics field had never seen anything like Jenette Kahn when she was announced as DC Comics’ new publisher, replacing the acclaimed artist Carmine Infantino. She came from “outside” comics and was young, pretty, and most of all, a woman. DC Comics had been experimenting with content in what felt to us readers as a haphazard approach, and the line lacked a distinct identity. Within a year of Jenette’s arrival, that began to change, and the company laid out a plan and tried one thing after another to goose sales and regain lost readers. It also embraced licensing in a way heretofore unseen by a comics publisher, creating a division to oversee the content creation for merchandisers and increasing oversight of quality. Creators began to notice they were being better treated, getting not only their art back but also reprint fees and a few years later, genuine royalties. Comics’ themes and stories were allowed to mature here and there, and ideas were solicited from the talent for perhaps the first time since Jack Liebowitz asked for a companion hero in the wake of Superman’s success. DC Comics became a haven for creators and creativity, coming at a time when the direct-sales channel became increasingly important to the bottom line. DC built up its sales force and aimed titles at this audience while embracing its golden anniversary with a status-quo altering event that became the template for company events ever since. In the wake of that celebration, Jenette guided DC into becoming a publisher of imprints aimed at different audiences, blazing the trail of collected editions and original graphic novels going into bookstores. What readers didn’t see was the Jenette in the halls, always stylishly attired, knowing everyone’s names and pausing to say hello. She fostered a feeling of corporate family and allowed for morale events from Easter Egg hunts to communal Thanksgiving luncheons. She championed bonuses for everyone when the company had a good year. The thinking was that the company’s success was a result of everyone’s effort, from the highest-ranking employee to the lowest. The company was stable under Jenette’s tenure as president, and it prospered. Sure, there were mistakes made and bumps in the road, but the DC Comics she left a decade ago was larger and more successful than how she found it. While not usually one for introspection, Jenette kindly agreed to speak about her time at DC over the summer of 2011. We spoke at length and for that, she has my utmost appreciation. – Robert Greenberger

The First Lady of DC Comics Portrait of former DC Comics publisher and president Jenette Kahn, from Portraits of the Creators Sketchbook. Illustration by Michael Netzer. Jenette Kahn Issue

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JENETTE KAHN: Hey, how are you today, Bobby? BOB GREENBERGER: Are you ready to trip down Memory Lane and dredge up ancient history? KAHN: Well, let’s start. I can say, though, I skimmed the questions and there are things that I don’t remember. [chuckles] I’ll just have to make the answers up. GREENBERGER: So, in the beginning, [Jenette laughs] I gather growing up with your brother Si, comics were a part of your life. Possibly not a large part, but a part nonetheless. KAHN: Comics were actually a very large part of my growing up. Not in the way we know them today, where there are comic-book stores that you race to when the new titles come out and you seal the comics in plastic bags and contemplate how much they’re going to be worth in the future. Instead, in my small town of State College, Pennsylvania, we would race to the five-and-dime where they had a wall of comics and where we’d try to read as many as we could before the store demanded that we buy them or get out. [mutual chuckling] And then, of course, we did buy them and we traded them all the time with friends in the neighborhood. Over time, my brother and I amassed a collection, not one that was particularly valuable or that we were preserving for posterity, but simply comics that we loved and enjoyed. Our taste was far-ranging and we counted Uncle Scrooge and Little Lulu among the ones we prized. But we also read a huge number of superhero comics and my favorite growing up, without question, was Batman. GREENBERGER: Okay, I didn’t know that. KAHN: Oh, mm-mm, absolutely. That’s why at our DC Comics offices, I had a blow-up of Detective #27 outside my door while Paul Levitz had a blow-up of Action #1 outside his. Paul grew up a Superman fan but I was a dyed-in-the-wool Batman fan. But I also read Archie comics, and it’s there I learned the word “prevaricator” from an issue where Betty comes racing into Veronica’s house and says, “Prithee, my pretty prevaricator.” Years later, I read Jules Feiffer’s introduction to The Great Comic Book Heroes and he wrote that when he was six years old, he could spell “cat,” “dog,” and “invulnerable.” And that’s how I felt about “prevaricator.” In the context of comics, you sometimes learned something that was completely over your head. As I mentioned, I was also a huge Uncle Scrooge fan and loved the Beagle Boys. I thought it was hilarious that they looked alike, dressed alike, and had the same numbers on their prison uniforms, but in different orders. I also loved the Junior Woodchucks Guidebook and that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were so much smarter than their Uncle Donald. Back then, I didn’t know that Carl Barks was the ingenious creator behind Uncle Scrooge, but I was drawn to the art and the ducks’ adventures to exotic lands with the Beagle Boys in hot pursuit. My brother and I didn’t know the word “existential,” but we understood that Little Lulu comics were different from other comics—offbeat, quirky, and unconventional. I can remember an issue where Tubby walks into Lulu’s house wearing a little pointed cone over his nose that was tied by a string in the back. Tubby would proclaim, “Here’s the Great Detective in disguise.” And Lulu would say, “Hello, Tubby.” And then he would walk into the kitchen and announce, “Here’s the Great Detective in disguise,” and Lulu’s mom would reply, “Hello, Tubby.” It was so out there, the idea that no one would recognize you if you disguised yourself with a cone on your nose. GREENBERGER: Oh, sure. KAHN: There was another classic Little Lulu story that my brother and I loved and still quote to this day. Lulu and Iggy are walking down the street and one of them notes that it’s funny how if you say a word often enough, it completely loses its meaning. And they

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start to say, “Feet, feet, feet- feet- feet- feet- feet- feet- feet- feet,” and they say “feet” so often that they’re clutching their sides, screaming with laughter, and then they’re rolling in the street, laughing and laughing and laughing some more while grown-ups gape in total bafflement. Then Lulu and Iggy wipe their eyes, stand up, and continue walking down the street. That was—oh, my God— so avant-garde. Forgive me for the word “avant-garde,” [chuckles] but that’s how it seemed to us, like, “Who’s writing this?” It was not your typical comic in any way. GREENBERGER: Now, did your interest in comics have anything to do with your going in to study art at college? KAHN: No, no, it didn’t at all. My mother loved art and when she could, she would paint. We lived in a small town where there were no art galleries, but Penn State University was located there, and when I was a little girl, Sidney Janis, the New York gallerist, sent an exhibition of Abstract Expressionism to Penn State. Abstract Expressionism was the vanguard modern art movement of the ’50s, and like all cuttingedge movements in their time, it had a vast number of detractors. But my mother loved the work and she and I would visit the Penn Stage gallery over and over again to see the exhibit. I don’t remember exactly what painters were represented, but there were definitely Franz Klein’s and maybe Pollock’s and Rothko’s, too. Because my mother deeply loved the art and because I deeply loved her, this was a very special outing, and I developed a tremendous affinity for modern art that came from that emotional shared experience. In my bedroom, I had a poster by Matisse that my mother had bought for me and my father had matted and hung. I thought that it was the most beautiful thing in the world and I would lie in bed morning and night drinking it in. That poster, with its vibrant colors and simplified forms, heightened my love of art and came to inform my own personal aesthetic. So really, it was the love of art—the pleasure of seeing color and shapes—that made me an Art History major. Art History, in turn, gave me an appreciation of comics as an art form. GREENBERGER: And when you graduated from Harvard, what were you thinking you were going to do? KAHN: I had a fellowship at the Museum of Modern Art when I graduated. It was, I think, the first summer that they had fellowships and it was exhilarating to work there. But even though I loved the experience, I also realized I didn’t want to work in a museum, that that would not be my career. There was so much bureaucracy and so much backbiting, too. I would watch curators, so much older than I, posturing in front of me and jockeying for position, and I thought, “Ooh, that’s not an environment in which I want to work.” GREENBERGER: No. KAHN: No. [laughs] Although I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, I knew that I wanted autonomy over my own ideas. I wanted to be an independent thinker and I thought that would never happen in the museum until I was 40 at least, and I was only 21. I couldn’t wait until I was 40, [chuckles] assuming I survived all the infighting to get to 40 there. So I started writing art criticism. But although I was being published in Art in America, I couldn’t earn nearly enough money to support myself. I thought, “Well, I could go back to college. I could get a PhD. Then I could teach and that would support my writing.” There was a professor at Harvard who’d been tremendously supportive of me even though I had actually never taken a class of his. His name was Professor John Rosenfield and he was a professor of Japanese Art, but he was also in charge of the tutorials and therefore knew my work. The spring that I was graduating, the Museum of Modern Art inaugurated its fellowship program and contacted several universities to ask what students they would recommend. Professor Rosenfeld called me and said, “If you would like this position, it’s yours, because you’re our best student.” And I said, “Professor Rosenfeld, thank you, but I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve had more than my share of B’s and C’s.” And he said, “Ah, that’s exactly what I mean. You never worked for grades. You worked for the passion of the subject and that’s a true student.” And I’m like, [nervous] “Oh, okay.” GREENBERGER: Wow, nice.

Kids’ Stuff Kahn’s first magazine creation, Kids Magazine, is extremely hard to find in today’s collectors’ market. Kids © the respective copyright holder. Sesame Street TM & © Sesame Workshop.

THE YOUNG PUBLISHER KAHN: It was such a gift. It was so amazing that a professor would say that and believe that and support me. So when I was floundering and thinking that the solution to supporting myself might lie in a PhD. I thought I could call Professor Rosenfield and he’d welcome me back at Harvard with open arms. But when I phoned, he said, “Oh, I that is the worst idea I have ever heard. PhDs are so narrow and boring.” [chuckles] I said, “Professor Rosenfeld, you have a PhD. You’re not that bad.” And he replied, “You should have seen me before my PhD.” After I pressed him further, he finally said, “Look, I will grudgingly accept your application, but this is mid-year. We don’t take anybody mid-year. You’d have to wait until September.” I was so eager to find a place to land that I applied to B.U. [Boston University], and even though it was mid-year, they accepted me. But truthfully, Professor Rosenfeld was right, and going to school was not what I really wanted to do. Professor Rosenfeld had also advised me, “Your sweep is much larger. If you insist on being in the art world, be a culture critic, but don’t be a professor, don’t be just an art historian.” And again, I’m so grateful to him. When the Modern’s fellowships came up, he said something completely out-of-the-box to me. [chuckles] And now, for a second time, he was saying something else that was completely out-of-the-box. Professor Rosenfeld saw something in me that I hadn’t yet seen in myself, a love of something bigger, of making something happen on a larger canvas. But I had yet to understand that. I was still in school pursing a PhD, although not very seriously at all. At the same time, a friend of mine, James Robinson, was at the Harvard Ed. School where, as part of the curriculum, he was student teaching. James loved the whole process of publishing—choosing the typeface, the paper stock, the end papers—and he was printing the work of aspiring writers in the Cambridge area. When he encountered the work of his kids in his classroom, he wanted to publish that, too. James’ idea was to print a series of books called Young Words and Pictures that would be entirely written and illustrated by kids for each other. We were just chatting, so I volunteered, “That’s a great idea. But just because I like Jim Robinson’s books doesn’t mean I’m going to like Jenette Kahn’s books. That means every time you publish a new book, you’ll have to spend a large amount of money to promote and market it. But if this were a magazine with surprises to keep it fresh and with ongoing features that kids would look forward to, you’d have a built-in audience. From a business point of view, I think that that would be more successful.” Suddenly I, who knew absolutely nothing about business, was an expert! And James said, “Well, great. Write a prospectus.” [Bob chuckles] I didn’t even now what a prospectus was, and whatever I wrote was surely not a prospectus, but I typed up something about the magazine. My own art style peaked at ten, so I was able to make reasonably faithful reproductions of the kids’ art and paste them into a ridiculously crude dummy to accompany my [chuckles] pseudoprospectus. Young Words and Pictures sounded a little stuffy, so we changed the title of the magazine to Kids. James and I were able to persuade two Boston businessmen, Charlie Rheault and Steve Alpert, to come on board, and they, in turn, were able to get us a $15,000 loan from the First National Bank of Boston. One of them knew a large printer in Lowell, Massachusetts, called Courier Color. Some karma was at work here, because many years before, when my father was a boy, he’d sold Courier Color newspapers on the street corners of Lowell. There was a lovely man at Courier Color named Dale Bowman, who was the foreman of the plant. He fell in love with the idea of Kids and generously arranged for us to print it on credit.

Everything in the magazine was written and illustrated by kids and we had kids as editors, too. And in advance of publication, we had put together an advisory board of the vanguard educators of the time: Dr. Robert Coles, John Holt, Jonathan Kozol, Kenneth Koch, the poet; Betty Blayton Taylor of the Children’s Art Carnival in Harlem. Eventually, the magazine generated its own submissions, but in the beginning we went to schools in Boston and New York to find the first paintings, stories, poems, and photographs we would publish. Our advisory board gave us credibility and we were aided by a sea change in educational thinking. Teachers across the country were realizing that their young students had tremendous creative potential and believed that potential should be validated and nurtured. The time was right for Kids. There was a three-week gap between the time that Kids was printed and its distribution on the newsstand. With printed copies in hand, I used that gap to garner publicity for the magazine. There was a wonderful columnist for The New York Times named Joseph Lelyveld. He went on to become the Times’ executive editor, but at that time he was writing the most compelling series of articles about a 4th grade class in a school on the borderline of Harlem and the Upper East Side. Joe’s stories were often revelatory, always moving, and sometimes very funny. Because of the immense humanity in his articles and his clear respect for the students whose classroom adventures he detailed every week, I thought Joe might respond to Kids and consider writing about it. My father and Joe’s father had both been college campus rabbis with the B’nai B’rith Hillel Foundation, and on the strength of that, I got in touch with Joe. “Would he meet with me?” I asked and Joe graciously said yes. A few days later we had coffee in the New York Times cafeteria and I showed him the magazine. “I don’t think the Times would write about this,” said Joe, “but if it did write about Kids, I would not be the person. Again, I don’t think that this is for the Times, but I will give the magazine to the appropriate people.” I expected nothing to come from the meeting, but two weeks later, on a Sunday morning in the fall [November 15, 1970], I woke up and there were some five columns about Kids Magazine in The New York Times. Jenette Kahn Issue

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Marcia, Marcia, Marcia… …and the rest of the Brady Bunch (with Geri Reischl as a fill-in Jan) made the cover of Dynamite #2, promoting the short-lived 1976 TV series, The Brady Bunch Variety Hour. (right) Thor’s origin is revealed to Dynamite readers in a “Super-Heroes Confidential.” Dynamite © Scholastic. Brady Bunch TM & © Paramount. Thor TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

On the same trip I made to New York to see Joe, I also met with Pat Carbine at Look Magazine. Not long after, Look published an article featuring our very young editors and artwork from Kids, and then Time magazine followed suit with an article of its own. After that, it was a series of falling dominoes as media across the country seized upon the story. Not only did dozens of newspapers cover Kids, but our editors were on The David Frost Show and I was even the real Jenette Kahn on To Tell the Truth. Everybody guessed me, but I consoled myself by saying if someone else were a better Jenette Kahn than I, I would be severely depressed. [mutual chuckling] And that was how Kids was launched. It was an extraordinary critical success and an equally large financial disaster. Neither I nor James Robinson knew anything about business and we had no money to fund the magazine. But Kids continued to publish because we had Dale Bowman, our incredible printer who believed in us and believed in Kids and kept extending us credit. But at issue #6, he could no longer afford to do that. I was 23 years old, owed a hundred thousand dollars, and knew everything about Chapter Ten versus Chapter Eleven bankruptcy. But even with this catastrophe, publishing was in my blood. [laughs] GREENBERGER: Oh, God! So it went from Kids and based on all that, you learned your lesson and got into Dynamite? KAHN: Unfortunately, I ended up on the wrong side of a creditor’s table, settling for 20 cents on the dollar, and we sold Kids to another company. But as I said,

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publishing was in my blood and I wanted to create a second magazine. Even though Kids was a financial calamity, it had gotten a huge amount of attention and was very highly thought of. Executives at Scholastic were acutely aware of Kids and asked if I would conceive another magazine for them. It was just what I wanted to do. I named the magazine Dynamite and presented the concept to Dick Robinson, who was the head of the company. Dynamite was a departure for Scholastic and Dick wasn’t ready to make a full commitment, but he decided to publish three issues and judge its success or failure from them. One of our many mistakes with Kids was putting it on the newsstand. Magazines suffered on the newsstands where millions of magazines were returned, many of them without ever being displayed. Compounding this, children didn’t frequent newsstands and their parents who did were looking for Newsweek, Time, and Forbes, not magazines for their kids. We were lucky if we sold 20 percent of our press run. But Dynamite wasn’t sold on the newsstand but through the Scholastic Book Clubs, an equivalent to the direct market in comic books. Using teachers as their middlemen, Scholastic would send brochures to a classroom with small capsule write-ups of the books of that month. The students would check off the books they wanted to read and return with money from their parents to purchase them. The teachers would collect the money and send it back to Scholastic. With this system, Scholastic was able to tally in advance the number of requests for each book and print each title to order. Unlike the newsstand, it was an enviable business, a business of no returns. Despite Dick Robinson’s initial tentativeness, Dynamite changed the fortunes of Scholastic, becoming the bestselling publication of its 32 magazines and the most successful publication in its history. Although I didn’t benefit financially from Dynamite’s enormous success, it changed my fortunes, too, opening up new career paths for me. GREENBERGER: During the first year of Dynamite, there was a three-page feature called “Super-Heroes Confidential,” where you had excerpts, featuring origins

of characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Tarzan, etc. Was this you using your childhood knowledge to reach out to these kids? KAHN: Absolutely. I have a wonderful older brother who’s been my Daniel Boone in life. Si blazed the trail and I quickly followed behind. Dynamite was targeted to kids nine to 11 and I thought of it as a great older brother who would put his arm around your shoulders and say, “Listen, kid. Mom and Dad aren’t going to tell you…” and then he’d be sure to clue you in on all the really cool stuff that was happening out there. In creating the magazine, I tried to tap into all the things that had given me untold pleasure growing up, and one of those things was comics. And so our very first issue launched an ongoing feature called “Super-Heroes Confidential,” where we would print the origin story of a character and follow it with obscure facts with which to dazzle your friends and make them feel dumb to boot. One question, I remember was, “How did Batman get his uniform?” and the goofy, improbable answer at the time was, he learned to sew in the Sea Scouts. [laughs] We interviewed an editor at DC and that was the answer we received. GREENBERGER: Sure, that sounds plausible. KAHN: [laughs again] In our first two issues we highlighted Superman and Batman, and then Spider-Man, as I remember, in our third. Unfortunately, I was only there for the first three issues. I had contracted with Scholastic to do three issues and my understanding was that we would forge a new agreement based on the magazine’s success. If we didn’t come to an agreement, neither Scholastic nor I could continue to publish the magazine without the other. But Dynamite was so phenomenally successful that we weren’t able to come to terms. Even when I offered to accept a 1% royalty instead of the 4% royalty that every other author of a book-club selection received, Scholastic said I’d be earning too much money and turned me down. I was 25, wide-eyed, and trusting, and in my naiveté, I’d never had an attorney review the original paper Scholastic had drawn up or counsel me on the protections I should ask for. During our negotiations, Scholastic offered me an executive position in charge of all new projects and I was sorely tempted. Creating new projects!—there was nothing I loved better. But as tantalizing as the offer was, I knew it was also a way to discriminate against me and deny me the royalty that all other book-club authors had. It was unjust and I couldn’t accept. And so I approached Xerox, which had its own educational publishing arm, about starting a magazine for them. I was still hoping to work things out with Scholastic and I made that clear to Xerox, but they were envious of Dynamite’s success and eagerly sent a car to bring me to their Connecticut offices. I was still holding out hope for Dynamite, but Scholastic and I could never agree, so I went ahead and created Smash for Xerox. I called it Smash because at that point I wanted to smash Dynamite. [mutual laughter] But even though I thought that neither Scholastic nor I could continue Dynamite without the other, Scholastic did go ahead without me and I didn’t have much recourse to stop them. I was finally able to get the copyright in my own name, but I didn’t participate in any of Dynamite’s financial success. Burned by my experience and a little wiser for it, I was able to negotiate a very fair contract with Xerox—complete with royalties!—but Dynamite was a monster, and despite the wish in Smash’s title, I was never able to compete with the juggernaut I’d created. But there were still many things to be grateful for. With the third issue of Smash, I was able to bring Milton Glaser on board as its design director. Milton was the most honored designer of his day and working with him was a privilege and a complete and total delight. And as painful as the rift with Scholastic was, it strengthened me and kept me on a trajectory of independence. When I arrived at DC just a few years later, my own experiences gave me empathy for the

countless artists and writers who were not getting a share of their creations and successes. Artists’ rights were one of the first things that I championed and fought for in my new job. I knew what it was like to be a creator and not be given one’s due… GREENBERGER: Now again, Smash covered comics, as Dynamite did. But looking at what was being published in comics in the ’70s, compared to when you were reading them years earlier, had you noticed that they had changed dramatically? KAHN: Hmm … Bobby, I can’t really say that I was aware of changes in the DC comics. But we were excerpting some Marvel comics at Smash and Marvel Comics certainly had changed. In my first year of college, I got mononucleosis and was sent home to recover. Ricky Marcus, a boy up the street who was a few older years than I, came home from Penn over the holidays, stopped by the house, and dropped off what must have been a hundred Marvel comics. This was 1964, when Marvel was coming into its own. 100 titles later, and I knew these weren’t my father’s comic books. Ricky Marcus’ stash of Marvels reminds me of the time my brother and I came home from elementary school and all of our comics were gone. [chuckles] We were like, “Mummy. What happened? Where are our comics?” And our mom blithely replied, “Oh, I gave them to the Johnson kids up the street because you had read them all.” We were horrified. “[gasps derisively] Mom, you so totally don’t understand.” [laughs] And she didn’t, of course. She thought a comic had no value once you had read it. But even though we didn’t put our comics in plastic sleeves, we read them over and over and over again. That was the joy of comics.

FROM SMASH TO DC COMICS GREENBERGER: During all of this, I gather you started to get to know people at Warner Communications, right? KAHN: Yes. I was publishing Smash in my humble brownstone offices on West 83rd Street when I got a call from Bill Sarnoff, who was the Chairman of Warner Publishing. Bill said to me, “We’re firing our publisher of DC Comics and we don’t want to hire anybody, but you’re the expert now in publishing for young people. Would you come talk

Monkey Business Planet of the Apes, cover-spotlighted on Smash #3. Smash © Xerox. Planet of the Apes TM & © 20th Century Fox.

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to us?” So I said, “Sure.” I liked solving problems; I didn’t care whose I believe they would never have hired a woman, and certainly not a they were. So we met and spent two very animated hours together. woman of my age. People say you stand on the shoulders of the people Our most critical discussion turned on reprints. Bill said, “We have before you, and there’s no doubt that I was standing on the shoulders of four decades’ worth of comics, hundreds of titles, and we’re thinking Gloria [Steinem] and other outspoken feminists. If it had been just a we should just reprint them since comics lose money and we make all few years earlier, being a woman would have discounted me for the job. our profits through merchandise and media.” And because I didn’t On the plus side, I had been entrepreneurial in the area that counted. want a job, didn’t think there was a job, and believed I was just there Comics in the ’70s were still mainly for kids, and the magazines I’d to give my opinion, I gave it. created were for young people, too. It seemed I had the creative instincts “That’s a really terrible idea,” I said (oh, the chutzpah of youth!). for the marketplace. And suddenly, you could hire women! [chuckles] “It’s the ongoing exploits and new adventures of the characters Meanwhile, the men who considered themselves heavy that are the lifeblood of the company and make licensing hitters just said, “Comics? Are you kidding?” [laughs] and media possible. If you don’t publish new stories, the I came to DC with a complete respect for comic characters will have a radioactive half-life and eventually books. Comics were a childhood love and I perpetuated all the media and merchandise will disappear.” that love in Dynamite and Smash. Art History, another And at the end of the two hours, Bill said, love, gave me a point of view. One gave me the “Look, I really enjoyed talking to you, but as I said, emotional appreciation and the other gave me the we don’t want to hire anyone.” I replied, “Not to critical appreciation of what comics were and what worry. I knew that. But I really enjoyed talking, too.” they could be. I was back at my offices at Smash when the THE EARLY DAYS AT DC phone rang. It was Bill, asking me to have lunch the GREENBERGER: Okay, so now you were walking next day. I hung up the phone and thought, into a company that hadn’t had an outsider hired “Lunch. Why is he asking me to lunch unless he’s in decades. [Jenette chuckles] And these were bill sarnoff going to offer me this job that does not exist? guys who worked side-by-side for, like I said, I’d better think whether or not I would like it.” So I decades together. Then here’s this young woman mused, “[hums] I love making magazines. I love having a vision and making it tangible. But this is 80 comics a month, coming in as the new boss. What was that reception like? What were merchandise, television, movies—it is so over my head that I have to those early days like for you? say yes!” And so I came to DC on Groundhog’s Day, 1976, and I KAHN: The early days were challenging. The staff was aghast that I had been hired. I was from outside the industry, I was 28 years old, and I was always say that I saw my shadow and stayed forever. a woman. There couldn’t have been a more dire combination. At the GREENBERGER: [chuckles] Indeed. [Jenette laughs] You knew that there were so many titles a month, you knew same time—and this gave me insight and shaped my management there were, you know, definitely things like Super Friends on ABC-TV style—it was clear that as distraught and angry as people were, they all Saturday mornings, and there was merchandise and all. But did tried to anticipate what I wanted to hear and say “yes” to me in one form or another. It seemed unjust that people would have to curry my Sarnoff say, “All right, go fix things. Go add to the properties”? KAHN: No, no, no. I don’t know this for sure, but it’s my impression that favor in order to retain their jobs. So from that time on, I tried to Warner Communications had been looking for quite a while for someone encourage people to express themselves, to disagree with me, to have to head DC. Comics had no prestige then and I think the men who were a better idea. And that is the reason Paul Levitz kept rising in the offered the job thought, “Nah, thanks but no thanks.” So Bill was open company. [chuckles] He was the only person in those very early days when Manny Gerard, one of Warner’s presidents, said to him, “I know who would say “no” to me. And Paul wouldn’t simply say no—it wasn’t this woman and she’s done these three magazines for kids. They’ve been arbitrary, he always had his reasons. And while I might not agree with lauded critically and one of them is a gigantic success. Maybe you them, they were smart and well-thought-out and created a dialogue. should talk to her. She’s run these businesses.” And of course, they I knew Paul would go very far and it really was because he said no. As I said, there will be things I don’t remember at all. You mentioned were just tiny, tiny businesses compared to DC Comics. [chuckles] that I made a point of hiring young people. Really? I said that I liked There was another key factor in my hiring. Not long before I came to DC, Warner Communications had bought an interest in Ms. Magazine. to hire young people? I don’t remember that. I can see why I might In our talks, Bill readily confessed, “Gloria Steinem has raised my have thought that, but, hmm, really? [laughs] I guess I’m going to consciousness.” Had Warner Communications not bought part of Ms., learn things about myself that I didn’t know. GREENBERGER: I want to get a sense of what was on your mind as you were walking in, setting up your office, meeting everybody, and figuring out what to do. Because after all, you were the first brand-new person the company had hired at such a high level, pretty much since Jack Leibowitz founded the operation. KAHN: That’s so crazy. [chuckles] GREENBERGER: I know, but you had all these old boys and honestly, there was a little bit of a reputation of sexism because these were people from an earlier generation where they weren’t even conscious of it. So how did they react to having this young, attractive woman suddenly be the boss? KAHN: Well, [chuckles] I think there was a sense of dismay. [chuckles again] Shock and dismay. I just didn’t fit any of the criteria people expected. It was a male bastion, and as you said, there were no women in any executive or editorial capacities at DC, nor many young people, either. And although in later years, Joe Orlando,

An Early Convention Appearance Jenette greets fans at the Houston Con in 1978. Photo by Jerry Wilhite. © Eddings, Rankins, and Wilhite Publication.

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the wonderful artist and editor, disputed this, I was told by more than one person that he was throwing up in the men’s room when he heard the news. GREENBERGER: Yeah, I heard the same story. [Jenette laughs] But it must have also been a culture shock for you because the dynamic of the company was so much larger than any of the magazines you had worked on previously, and it was a whole other generation of culture and thinking, so it must have tough for you, too. KAHN: You know, I came in with a love of comics and an appreciation of the medium, both as a reader and as someone who saw it as an art form. There was so much potential and I believed that if we focused on that, we could work together and find common ground. I just had to get the lay of the land and tread carefully. GREENBERGER: What did you do, if anything, to try and convince people you were sincere and you really wanted the same things they wanted and win over their trust? KAHN: I can’t think of anything specific I did, Bobby. I just tried to express my enthusiasm for the medium and my enthusiasm for the people there. I came with no intentions to fire people, shake up the staff, and hire new people, certainly not at the expense of people who were already there. I wanted to get to know the staff and see who was making a contribution. And very early on, I realized how important it was to be measured and reasonable in my communications, even more reasonable, perhaps, than my male counterparts might have been. I had hired Vinnie Colletta as DC’s art director, and in my first year, he and Paul made a deal to bring the artist George Tuska to DC. They hadn’t asked me and the deal was already done. Even though they believed George would be a valuable asset to the company, I told Paul and Vinnie that they shouldn’t have made the deal without consulting me and I said it in a critical way. And they were so wounded [chuckles], and they took it so hard. It was, luckily, a very early lesson for me. Again I realized what tremendous power one has as the head of a company and how much people on staff desire to please, desire to be well thought of. Vinnie and Paul believed they had scored a coup for DC and they expected to be praised, not criticized. They were angry and crushed. I knew I was right in principle, but their reaction taught me how I would handle criticism in the future. Before reproving anyone, it was important to first express appreciation for his or her good intentions. And it was just as important to be even-tempered in delivering any reproach. I don’t know if Paul and Vinnie would have felt as wounded or unappreciated if the criticism had come from a man. Perhaps they would simply have masked their feelings more artfully. But I was trying to build morale and trust and didn’t want anyone on staff to feel fearful or mistreated. Although Vinnie and Paul took their moping to an extreme, I thought, “Okay, let me adjust my style and always try first to praise the good things and then express my feelings of how something should have been handled better.” GREENBERGER: So you walk in in February and then by May, you promote Joe to managing editor, you hire Vinnie as art director, and Paul gets to be editorial coordinator, which is a brand-new position. So I gather that between February and May, you pretty much figured out what you needed and began to put your pieces in place? KAHN: Well, I felt I needed a strong, creative team. In the time between my hiring and my actually coming to DC, Bill Sarnoff—the chairman of Warner Publishing— had sent me a very large box of DC Comics. I thought, “Oh, how much fun will this be! I get to read all these comics.” But to my surprise, so few of the comics were

really good. First and foremost, I thought we had to get our creative on track, and Joe seemed to be someone who appreciated talent, who was a talent himself, and someone who would just be great to work with. And he was. He was a joy. As I’ve said, there was sense of shock and dismay that I’d been hired from all these men who seriously resented my hiring, but thought I had the power to make a difference in their lives and livelihoods. To protect their jobs, they would say “yes” to me, no matter what I proposed. But Paul was the one person who would say “no,” and he said no with cogent, well-argued reasons. And I thought, “He says no to me. He could make me better than I am. He’ll go very far.” And that was the beginning of my promoting Paul through every possible position. GREENBERGER: DC didn’t really have an art director position, yet you created one. You put Vinnie in, which was an interesting choice because he hadn’t been on staff previously, and he was known more as a speed-inker than a good inker. KAHN: Again, you know, it was early on and I was eager to try to assemble a team. Vinnie seemed to have

Jenette Kahn Issue

Jenette’s Soapbox One of our favorite Jenette Kahn achievements as DC publisher: coining the term “Publishorial”! Here’s her Publishorial about Firestorm, from late 1977. TM & © DC Comics.

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Early Accomplishments (above) While Joe Orlando—and most of the male DC staff—was initially resistant to Kahn’s hiring, he and she soon formed a deep professional and personal bond. (right) Jenette’s first convention experience was the Super DC Con ’76. This Amazing World of DC Comics Special Edition, published at a 5.5" x 8.5" size, was produced as the official con program. (background) Superman: The Movie’s 1978 release was the first offering to legitimize comics superheroes— and the contributions of their creators, in this case, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. TM & © DC Comics.

relationships with artists. He didn’t prove to be the same kind of wonderful decision that Joe was or that promoting Paul was. I probably should have taken more time and been more circumspect, but I was keen to get started. Vinnie did a number of good things for DC, but where Joe and Paul were there for the long run and made invaluable contributions, the Vinnie hire wasn’t nearly as successful. GREENBERGER: And I gather when he did leave, or was asked to leave, you didn’t fill that spot. So I guess you decided that things were working fine without that role? KAHN: You know, Bobby, it’s so long ago that I don’t recall my thinking at the time. GREENBERGER: Okay. Looking at the history of it all, you show up just after— thankfully—Siegel and Shuster had their [Superman] settlement with Warner Bros., the Superman/Spider-Man book was just coming out early in your tenure, so that you were there to basically wave at it, you know. So did you get the sense the company was finally starting to move in a direction that you needed to harness? Or were these just random acts without a cogent plan? KAHN: I think at the time, they just felt like random acts, although very, very good ones. It was great to create some excitement in the industry and among comic fans by publishing the much-yearned-for, much-anticipated match-up of Spider-Man and Superman. In the fall before I came to DC, like so many New Yorkers, I read about Siegel and Shuster’s plight in The New York Times. One of the presidents at Warner Communications was a friend and I’d call him and say, “How can you not take care of these men, even if legally, you don’t have to? How can you not do something for them?” So, of course, I was thrilled when there was a settlement. With the very first comic-book convention in which I participated, it might have been at the end of February, I don’t remember… GREENBERGER: Yeah, it was the President’s Day weekend DC Convention, the one and only. KAHN: [chuckles] I said we have to bring in Jerry and Joe. I felt that they had been marginalized, even isolated, because of the ongoing contention with the company. And now that there was a settlement, certainly there was nothing to stop us from giving them the honor and

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respect they deserved. So I said, “Let’s have them be guests of honor at the convention and let’s film them.” We did film them and I think that’s the only footage that we have of Jerry and Joe from that time period. GREENBERGER: Oh, yeah, that ancient videotape. I remember it, yeah. KAHN: [chuckles] Yeah, I saw it. GREENBERGER: But I’m glad you did it. KAHN: I’m glad I did it, too. It was just wonderful to meet them and to spend some time with them. When we had the Superman [movie] premiere at the end of ’78 in Washington, Joe, sadly, was just too sick to travel, but Jerry was there. Jerry had tears in his eyes and said, “You know, this is just how I imagined it.” It was so gratifying that the film realization of Superman coincided with his personal vision and so special that he could be there, getting the credit and honor he deserved. GREENBERGER: Absolutely. Now, one of the other things is, you know, a woman coming into all of this, did you feel that there were too many male-centric books? And were you hoping to come up with stuff to appeal to women readers? KAHN: I can’t say that I thought that at the time. [chuckles] There were two things that were uppermost in my mind when I came in. The first was that the books be good, not that we had more books that appealed to women, just that the books, the titles we had, be good. And the second was that the artists and writers should be taken care of. I was shocked when I came to DC to learn that we had no contracts with our talent and that our artists and writers had no reprint rights, no royalties, no share in ancillary income from television, movies, or licensed products, and that, most humiliating of all, when they went to endorse their checks, they signed a stamp on the back of the check giving DC all rights throughout the cosmos in perpetuity. GREENBERGER: Sure.

KAHN: And as I think I mentioned to you in our last conversation, I had come to understand how wrong it was for a powerful company to take your ideas and not give you the credit and financial recognition you’d earned, and how important it was, how just it was, that creators have a share in their own creations. And so those were my priorities, make the books as good as possible (I think it was first just to get a floor under them) [chuckles], and make certain that the people who put us on our sides of the desk were taken care of. GREENBERGER: I remember it was right around the time you got there—and you could help me with this—I know Neal Adams pushed for the original art to be returned. Did that start under you or had Carmine allowed that to happen? KAHN: Definitely Carmine. Art was being given back when I got to DC but in a haphazard way and with no guarantee of its return. I had a long list of creators’ rights I wanted to enact, and the return of artwork was among them. In addition, I wanted to make sure that if the artwork was stolen or mangled at the printer or just lost in the mails, we would guarantee to compensate the artist for its loss.

CHANGING OF THE (OLD) GUARD GREENBERGER: Reprint fees were beefed up under your early tenure, so I’m sure the early talent appreciated that. We talked about the “Old Boys Club,” and there was Murray Boltinoff and Julie Schwartz and Bob Kanigher and, you know, that generation. But you also had the younger generation of the Woodchucks, as Sol called them. So you had Paul, and there was Marty Pasko and Tony Isabella and Jack Harris and all, acting as assistant editors. And then shortly after your arrival, there was this new level of—I guess— editorial hierarchy, where these assistants were suddenly story editors working on their own books. Was the thinking there these guys had earned their stripes, or did you want to see what they could do? KAHN: Story editors? I don’t remember. GREENBERGER: Yeah, basically, there was Sol’s Junior Woodchucks, Paul and Marty and Carl Gafford and Jack Harris. They were all like assistant editors. And then shortly after you jumbled everything around with Joe and Vinnie and Paul, you created the story editor position where people like Denny O’Neil and Jack Harris suddenly were given books to edit, but under this odd title. And I was wondering what you might remember about that.

[Interviewer’s note: According to Paul Levitz, Gerry Conway had left to go to Marvel as editor-in-chief, which proved to be a three-week stint. Rather than hire a replacement, Jenette split up the books among Bob Rozakis, Jack Harris, and Levitz. When Rozakis moved over to production, Tony Isabella replaced him. Says Levitz, “The story editor title was, I believe, a concession to Vinnie as art director, and a way to justify the lower pay/status than the long-established editors.”] KAHN: I don’t, to be truthful. I don’t. GREENBERGER: That’s fine. Okay, let me ask you this, then. You did have a number of editors like Murray Boltinoff who wound up retiring at 65 but stayed on in a freelance capacity for several more years. You had the younger generation, but then a few years into your tenure you brought in a veteran artist, Ross Andru, to edit for the company. So did you get the sense that there was an era passing in those early years for you as the focus was moving away from Western, war, romance, and superheroes, to just strictly the heroic stuff? KAHN: It did seem some genres were on their way out, certainly the war comics. And you know, it was not that long after Vietnam. GREENBERGER: Right. KAHN: And I think Vietnam diminished my appetite for the war comics even though ours, for the most part, dealt with World War II. And our romance comics definitely felt dated. We were in a post– sexual revolution era, but our romance comics were ever so chaste and certainly not complex in their storylines. In addition, Paul and I were spearheading a shift in our distribution from the newsstand to the direct market and that meant we would be catering to the vastly male audience that frequented comic-book collector stores. Romance comics weren’t going to entice them. GREENBERGER: You joined DC in February, and then by September, it’s pretty much codified that you’re the publisher and Sol, the president. How did you divide up the various roles at this point? KAHN: [chuckles] Well, some of it came naturally. Carmine Infantino, Sol’s predecessor, had spent a lot of time trying to divine which covers were the most saleable, and Sol did that, too. Sol had come up through production so he had an ongoing relationship with our printers. And having spent several decades in the trenches at DC, Sol loved the prestige that came with being president and met with any outside people who wanted to do business with us.

In Case You Missed It… …or weren’t alive back then (>sigh<), the convention program for Super DC Con ’76. TM & © DC Comics.

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But Sol really had no interest in the editorial core of the company, GREENBERGER: As you just said, you definitely started to see things and I was more than happy to focus on that. Sol had lived for so very DC needed, and you started to grow in those areas. One of the things long in an industry where there were no artists’ rights that it was not that impressed me the most was that early on, DC recognized the a burning passion of his and it was of mine. He was friends, of course, need to use its characters beyond just comic books, so Joe’s special with Phil Seuling, one of the pioneers in direct distribution. But although projects group was starting to gel. And to that end, you went out and Sol and Phil socialized whenever Phil stopped by, the growing of you hired Judy Fireman to actually do book publishing with the direct market was not of particular interest to him either. the characters. She did things like The Super Heroes Instead he spent his time dealing with the wholesalers Super Healthy Cookbook. who delivered our comics to the newsstands. So luckily, KAHN: Joe did The Super Heroes Super Healthy even in distribution, we had no conflict. Cookbook, really, I think. GREENBERGER: You guys were like—I wouldn’t say GREENBERGER: Well, he executed it, but I thought direct opposites, but you were so different. Did you find Judy was on hand to help sell it. it difficult to come up with a working relationship? KAHN: Oh, that could certainly be. I just remember KAHN: I can’t really say that Sol and I had much of that the cookbook was—dare I say it?—a work of art a working relationship. He, more than anybody, on Joe’s part and I have to give him real credit for it. resented my being hired because he felt that the job I think Mark Saltzman was part of that, too. was rightfully his. I had been hired by Bill Sarnoff as Wasn’t he the writer? the president of the company. But before I arrived at GREENBERGER: Yes, he was. DC, Bill phoned to say, “I’m really sorry, but Sol has KAHN: Mark had worked on both Dynamite and sol harrison gone to Jay Emmett (one of Warner Communications Smash and he had great ideas and was a very funny presidents) with some of the staff to say they’re writer. It was hard to think of a better team than leaving if he isn’t made president. I know that’s not the basis on Joe and Mark together. which you were hired and if you don’t want to come, I understand. When I was a little girl, my brother had given me the Betty But I really have to give Sol the title of president.” Crocker, Jr. Cookbook. It was a wonderful book with a visual It was an unexpected reversal, but by the time it occurred, I had playfulness that I loved. You didn’t just make lemonade but you also shut down Smash and was emotionally committed to DC. I tried very made colored ice cubes to give it some pizzazz. A banal salad of a hard to work with Sol, to forge some kind of relationship, but it was pineapple ring and half a banana became a candle in a candleholder hard. He always saw me as the person who was trying to steal what with a cherry on top for the flame. I wanted to publish a cookbook was rightfully his, and as such, we were never close. Sol’s sense of for kids that was as imaginative and interactive as my beloved betrayal was so large that he always seemed to wonder if I was trying childhood cookbook. to oust him. He didn’t say that and we were always polite to one But Joe and Mark far exceeded my expectations. They created another, but we never truly had a collaborative relationship. vegetable robots that said “Take me to your eater!” and Plastic Man GREENBERGER: That’s such a shame. He finally retired in 1980, so it spaghetti and meatballs where Plas was a strand of the spaghetti. had to be an uneasy couple of years for you. On every page of the book, the characters were integrated with the KAHN: I think it was five years, really, and it was not an easy time. I had food with tremendous imagination and wit. some sense of having to walk on eggshells, but it was what it was. The book was wonderful, but we were bummed when Warner GREENBERGER: Meantime, you were beefing up the editorial staff and you Books rejected the original cover. It was a sunny yellow wraparound definitely were thinking beyond traditional, obvious candidates. Not every with fruits in superhero regalia on the front. On the back, all that was assistant became an editor, for example. One of the odder choices had to left of the fruit were the cores, the superhero costumes scattered on be Ernie Colón. Hiring Ernie—the way I heard the story is, he really the ground. But Warner Books said, “Oh, no, no, no. It’s too abstract impressed you at a cocktail party or some social event and the next thing and too hard to get,” and we ended up with a dark blue, cosmic everybody knew, you hired him. Do you remember anything about that? cover of all the characters floating in space with planet-like platters KAHN: I have no memory at all, really, of those early hires. I was of food. I always thought it wasn’t as clever and appealing as the hoping to bring in people with fresh points of view, people with original, but Warner Books was probably right, it wasn’t as sellable. energy, with passion and commitment, and I would have to assume But had it been up to me, I’d have gone with the other. that I felt that Ernie filled those criteria. GREENBERGER: By 1980, you’re in place four years now, and things are starting to evolve and you’re moving the company forward. At the EVOLUTION same time, Jim Shooter’s elevation to editor-in-chief at Marvel, across GREENBERGER: As Joe was working as managing editor under you, town, led to a lot of really talented veteran creators suddenly becoming at what point were you letting him make a lot of the calls regarding the available. Len Wein came over, then Marv Wolfman, then Roy Thomas. creators on the books or which people were hired to join staff as editors? Were you getting his input early on or was that something that evolved? KAHN: I assume that like everything at DC, it evolved. [chuckles] I had tremendous faith in Joe and believed in his commitment, his talent, and his judgment. It was a privilege to work with him. But my understanding of DC evolved over time and my relationships did, too. Everything at DC was new to me and there were judgments that I made early on that, given a few more years, I wouldn’t have made. But I was struggling to find my way and in the process made some very good decisions and some that I wish I hadn’t. It was all part of my learning curve.

Incredible Edibles As Jenette Kahn reveals in this interview, this published cover to the DC Super Heroes Super Healthy Cookbook was not the book’s original cover. TM & © DC Comics.

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Did you have to do much recruiting to convince them that you had a better house? KAHN: Again, I can’t really say. I remember their coming, I remember Len and Marv proposing the revamp of Teen Titans. We certainly wanted them to come, but how hard it was to get them, I don’t really remember. GREENBERGER: Fair enough. One of your more serendipitous hires—and we’ll move on from hiring after this—was also in 1980, in the spring of 1980, you decided you needed someone to help you plan for Wonder Woman’s anniversary. You hired a kid out of college named Andy Helfer [Jenette laughs], and he started to work with you on the anniversary but before you knew it, he was working with Joe in what was becoming the special projects department. And that was the summer I was there briefly, you know. Do you remember hiring Andy and then the energy he brought? KAHN: I do remember hiring Andy that May, just for the summer, I think. But he had so much energy and such great ideas. He was very smart and I was just delighted to have him come on staff. But I think the joke of the office is that Paul would regularly fire Andy and I would just as regularly rehire him. GREENBERGER: Yes, because you responded well to all of Andy’s creativity while Paul reacted poorly to all of Andy’s anarchy. KAHN: [laughs] I’d say that’s pretty accurate. GREENBERGER: And you know, it was that creativity where Joe and Andy really clicked. I mean, time and again, that summer, the two of them were sitting there, making each other laugh while getting a tremendous amounts of work done. KAHN: They were soul mates. GREENBERGER: Yeah, it was pretty amazing. KAHN: It was wonderful. And I think each of them held the other in his heart to the end of days.

GREENBERGER: Oh, absolutely. So, moving on, one of the things you talked about in one of your early Publishorials was the fact that you were very surprised DC was not doing comic books based on the Super Friends cartoon show or even the live-action Shazam! Saturday morning show, and you started those books. Did you think those were successes in reaching different audiences or tying the comics to the television series? KAHN: You know, Bobby, it seemed like the logical thing to do since we had, in a sense, this built-in marketing on television. But I don’t know that the comics were actually that successful. We started publishing them at a time when we were moving into the collectors stores where the audience, the average age of the buyer, was 16 years old. And Super Friends and Shazam! on Saturday morning were not of interest to them. Go back to the Judy Fireman hire, though. That was a very early attempt to see how we could leverage our characters in other directions. Ultimately, that was the very, very beginning of what turned into, over the years, a great book-publishing arm for DC Comics. I was very Jenette Kahn Issue

Saturday Morning Heroes (left) Shazam! became part of the company’s DC/TV line. Cover to Shazam! #25 (Sept.–Oct. 1976) by Kurt Schaffenberger. (right) The Ernie Chua/ Vince Colletta cover to Super Friends #1 (Nov. 1976). Shazam! and Super Friends TM & © DC Comics. Isis © Entertainment Rights plc.

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glad I hired her because it started us on that track. GREENBERGER: Absolutely. Now, yes, you did the Super Friends comic and Shazam! and all, but you also did Welcome Back, Kotter, which felt like out of left field since it wasn’t based on any comic stuff. Was that an attempt to try the old licensing gambit that used to work so well? KAHN: Again, I don’t remember why we did that. GREENBERGER: Fair enough. Meantime, there was the success of the Wonder Woman live-action show with the wonderful Lynda Carter. You know, apparently it was Marty Pasko who suggested taking the book he was writing and turning it into a World War II book to mirror the TV show. Were you at all involved in the TV show or the comics adaptation? KAHN: No, I wasn’t involved at all with the TV show because that had been sold by another Warner Communications executive, Ed Blier, quite independent of us. GREENBERGER: But apparently, you did have input in the comics because of the success of the TV show, you took a look at the comic which at the time was being written by Marty and drawn by Jose Delbo and said, “Jose isn’t a strong enough artist for this important a property,” and you insisted he be replaced. Do you remember doing those sorts of creative decisions? KAHN: I don’t remember that particular one, but I often had creative input into the comics in terms of talent and ideas. And ideas would be pitched to me. I remember Len and Marv coming in, pitching Teen Titans, and at first, I was thinking, “Teen Titans? What a lame comic. Who cares about these teenage imitations?” But Len and Marv had a terrific pitch that reflected the new sensibility we were fostering and, I’m totally delighted to say, they convinced me. [chuckles] But the specific decision to remove a Wonder Woman artist, that I don’t remember.

TRYING OUT NEW FORMATS GREENBERGER: The other thing is the comics at the time were cutting back on page count because of the economics. DC was down to, like, 17 pages of story around the time you arrived and one of the things you were definitely playing with in those first four or five years was format. There were the original stories in the tabloids, better choices of the reprint material, you took the Legion and you took the Justice League and you bumped them up to 48 pages with twice the story page count. Do you remember playing with all of this stuff and then working with the editors to figure out what was going to work? KAHN: What I remember was just trying to give more—give more value to the readers and find a way to justify raising the price. Not to raise the price without giving value, but to find a way to add value and then raise the price so that the economics of comics would be better. GREENBERGER: And then, of course, there were the Dollar Comics, which really felt like you were getting your money’s worth. KAHN: The ill-fated Dollar Comics. I think ultimately, you didn’t get your money’s worth, even though, based strictly on the page counts, you did. But because—I remember it only had one lead story of new material and the rest was reprint. Is that correct, Bobby? You know better than I. GREENBERGER: Well, no. No, those were the 50-cent, 100-page Super Spectaculars that were there at the very beginning. But when you gave us in ’77, ’78, the Dollar Comics. They were 80 pages of new material. KAHN: Eighty pages of new material. I guess, then, it was in the quality. Perhaps because we were trying to do so much material at once, it wasn’t as strong as it might have been. Neal Adams did the covers… GREENBERGER: He did a lot of the first covers, yeah. KAHN: But then you had him on the cover, but you didn’t have him on the inside. I think Dollar Comics were a good concept but they weren’t executed as well as they might have been and they might have been a little early. [Editor’s note: For more on Dollar Comics, see the article beginning on page 39.] GREENBERGER: Speaking of the new material in the tabloids, how involved were you in making the Superman/Muhammad Ali book a reality? KAHN: Strangely, even though Don King, who was a big boxing promoter and still had a strong relationship with Muhammad Ali, even though he came first to Sol’s office and that was the kind of thing that Sol usually was excited about, he handed it off to me. I was tremendously involved in the comic and it was an exciting experience because I got to work with Ali’s team and with Ali himself, and I wrote about it in the introduction to the recent reissue of Superman/Muhammad Ali. And, of course, I was also responsible for one of the colossal challenges/catastrophes [chuckles] of the Superman/Muhammad Ali book. I had what I thought was an inspired idea. I said, “We have a huge double cover with no ad in the back and with Supes and Ali in the ring together. And who comes to boxing matches? All the glitterati. So let’s fill the entire audience with famous people,” and we proceeded to do just that. And Neal drew all these famous people in the stands. It was only after they were drawn that we learned that if we were using their likenesses, their images were aiding in the sale of the comic book, and we needed their permission to use them. Needless to say, we didn’t have it. I had to travel the country to try to convince the people who were already on the cover to allow us to use their likenesses. And when they wouldn’t give us permission, we had to draw somebody else with a similar physiognomy in their place. So George C. Scott, for instance, became Kurt Vonnegut. If I looked at the cover, I could

More for Your Money JLA and Legion got page count boosts in a Kahn decision. Cover to Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes #231 (Sept. 1977) by Mike Grell. TM & © DC Comics.

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KAHN: …and also Denny and Neal’s Batman series, [and] Bernie Wrightson and Len Wein’s Swamp Thing. I wanted to see where we had risen to some heights prior to my coming to DC, to see who was doing really good work in comics, not just at DC but over at Marvel, too, and to try to bring that talent to us. It was important to me to create an environment in which artists and writers felt that they would be recognized, have great working conditions, and be justly rewarded for their efforts. Another way to improve our books was to take the existing material and just try to make it better. I always said that Paul was the one who excelled at taking mediocre material and putting a floor under it and I had a knack for taking material that was very good and raising the ceiling. GREENBERGER: Ah, cool. In previous interviews you have identified Mike Grell’s Warlord and Jonah Hex by Mike Fleisher, and then Captain Carrot, as three of your favorite titles. Do you remember what the appeal was for you? KAHN: I think the reason that I liked Mike Grell’s Warlord is, it seemed to have a modern feel, even though, of course, it didn’t take place in modern times. Mike’s art style pointed a bit at the future. It was very early on and we were not doing that many exciting books at the time, but Warlord had an energy, a look about it that was a harbinger of many things to come. And Mike Fleisher’s Jonah Hex I enjoyed tremendously because of the intelligence with which it was written and its comingling of fiction with history. Mike wove Suffragettes and itinerant Shakespearian actors into his stories, all based on research and fact. The comic embraced traditional Western mythology, but the stories were deeply human, and because of that, I found them very compelling. Captain Carrot was just silly and fun. And you know, it was just sort of a—it was a very enjoyable comic relief. Jenette Kahn Issue

Head Games Neal Adams’ astounding cover art (working from a Joe Kubert cover design) to Superman vs. Muhammad Ali (which will be featured in BI #61, our “Tabloids and Treasuries” issue), and (inset) celebrity likeness sketches by Adams. Superman TM & © DC Comics. Muhammad Ali TM & © Muhammad Ali Enterprises.

TM & © DC Comics.

tell you who else became who else. [chuckles] That was a novice’s mistake that expended a lot of time and energy, but luckily, in the end, we still had a population of celebrities at ringside. GREENBERGER: Wow, pretty impressive. One of the things that is credited to you is that you took the anthology titles of Our Army at War and Star Spangled War Stories and decided since they were pretty much featuring the characters of Sgt. Rock and the Unknown Soldier, you just had their titles changed. You weren’t as interested in maintaining these legacy names. Did you have strong feelings about this sort of stuff? Or were you going with your gut? KAHN: Well, I remember with Jonah Hex, it just seemed that he was more important than the traditional title [Weird Western Tales], that the intellectual property was not so much in the title, but was really in the character. And to brand something with a character meant more than branding with a title. GREENBERGER: During these early years, were you reading everything that was being published by DC? And did you sit down with editors to provide feedback with what you thought worked and what didn’t work? KAHN: I’d like to say I read every book, but I didn’t. We were publishing 80 titles a month and I actually had my favorites and always read them first. When I had a little extra time, I would dip into the other books, but I wouldn’t read them as carefully or regularly as I did the ones I cared most about. And yes, I did give feedback. Making the comics as good as possible was one of my goals and there were so many ways to go about that. One was to seek out artists and writers who were already doing excellent work. I tried to ground myself at DC and give myself an education in our talent, so I went back into the past and read some of the comics that were outstanding. And that included, of course, the Denny O’Neil/Neal Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow series… GREENBERGER: Oh, sure.

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Winter of Discontent (left) Kahn’s Publishorial from late 1977 touted the DC Explosion … but little did she know that snowstorms would soon contribute to a corporatemandated implosion. (center) Detail from the Pérez/Giordano cover of DC’s breakout hit, The New Teen Titans #1. TM & © DC Comics.

CHANGING EXPECTATIONS GREENBERGER: So now we’re in the late ’70s—you’ve had the Dollar Books, you’ve had a bunch of experimental stuff going on, and then DC was gearing up for the DC Explosion. You were breaking the mold and doing the 40-page books with the eight-page backups. You added Larry Hama and Al Milgrom to staff as editors. Things were really starting to churn and get exciting, the readers were certainly all excited about seeing their favorite characters get backup features. And then we had the Implosion. [Jenette chuckles] What are you recollections of that time? KAHN: Bobby, I don’t really remember too much. What I remember most of all, truthfully, is that because of the Implosion, we had to let people go. I was very happy to have Larry and Al Milgrom on staff and it was painful to have to release them. We couldn’t afford to keep them with the sales being nothing what we hoped for. Quite the contrary. And so most of all, I remember, really, the human toll of that time period.

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[Interviewer’s note: The DC Implosion was ordered by Warner executives after looking at sales figures from the winter of 1978 without taking into account three snowstorms that literally shut down roads and kept many periodicals, most notably comic books, in warehouses. Without the context, they panicked and reduced the line of titles to 20 32-page monthlies.] GREENBERGER: Were you at all worried about your own standing within the corporation, given this draconian cutback? KAHN: I didn’t worry, I don’t know why. Perhaps I should have. [chuckles] But, no, I didn’t. I wasn’t anxious for myself. I just felt very bad that I had brought people to DC with the hopes of giving them a future at the company and wasn’t able to follow through on that. GREENBERGER: In the wake of that, the next big step that you and Paul took was fully embracing the direct-sales market by starting to produce material exclusively for the market. Did you see that as a survival mechanism? A risk? An experiment? KAHN: Paul and I looked very carefully at what was happening in the comic-book market and you certainly didn’t need to be a rocket scientist to see that the newsstand business was a business of humongous returns and therefore, of diminishing returns. And at the same time, there was this infant business, the direct-sales market, where you could actually print to order. It didn’t have the depth at the time to support the comic-book industry, but there seemed to be an avid following within it. There were comic-book fans who were no longer frequenting newsstands but buying their comics at collectors stores. And we

thought, “Could we help the collector stores expand? Could we help them become a little more sophisticated and become more sophisticated ourselves?” You know, we ourselves were young and unpolished in that area as well, but we thought that perhaps we could grow together. And, of course, it was a risk because we were going to put a lot of time, energy, and resources against it. But we felt that it made no sense to put time, energy, and resources against the newsstand market and this was the only viable bet. Because Paul and I were fledglings in this area, I brought in a consultant who turned out to be terrific for us. His name was Leon Knize, and he had done a lot of work developing credit plans to help businesses grow. We wanted to help the comic-book stores expand, to extend them credit so they could grow, but we didn’t want to be so extended ourselves that we would take a terrible hit. Leon came in and worked hand-in-hand with Paul. Paul would tell you that it was an incredible learning experience because Leon really knew his stuff and was very generous in sharing it. Together, they crafted a plan to help us do just what we hoped: extend credit to these fledgling stores, help them grow, help them expand, and in doing so, expand the market for DC. GREENBERGER: You mentioned bringing in Leon and that reminds me, one of the first things you actually did was bring in Milton Glaser to re-do the logo [the DC bullet]. KAHN: Oh, yes. [chuckles] GREENBERGER: Is there a story behind that? KAHN: Well, there is a little bit of a story behind that. Milton was considered the greatest graphic

designer of the time. He was the founding designer of New York Magazine, the hippest magazine to come out of the ’60s in New York, and he was renowned for so many other artistic achievements. One of his most famous and iconic designs was the Bob Dylan poster where Bob Dylan’s profile is black but he has colors streaming through his hair. I was 25 and creating my third magazine and Milton was a lion at that point. All I could think of was, “If only I could have Milton Glaser design this magazine.” I knew, of course, that would never happen. But I did go to see him and said, “I know this is not something that you could take on, but perhaps you have some students or people you could recommend who might become Milton Glasers of the future.” And Milton suggested two brothers who had been his students. They took on the magazine, but then, as we were in the middle of the third issue, they called me and said, “This magazine is killing us. We’re having a nervous breakdown and can’t finish it. We’re off to Europe. Goodbye.” GREENBERGER: My God! KAHN: [laughs] “Goodbye”? We had a deadline to meet, I had to deliver the magazine to Xerox, and suddenly, no art directors! I called up Milton and said, “Milton, Milton, they’re leaving right in the middle of the job!” And he said, “Couragio, my young friend, couragio,” because he’d had a Fulbright in Italy and occasionally peppered his speech with Italian. “Come, we’ll have dinner.” So we met for dinner and midway through, Milton said, “All right, I’ll do it.” And so he became, to my awe and amazement, [chuckles] the designer of Smash and it was the most wonderful, wonderful collaboration. It was a privilege to be able to work with him. When I came to DC, there were many things that were holdovers from the past that just felt a little anachronistic. One was our company name, National Periodical Publications. I felt that we were a comic-book company and shouldn’t hide under a euphemistic title. We should come right out and say that we’re proud to be who we are. I thought we should call the company DC Comics and wanted a logo that reflected that our pride, so I asked Milton if he would design it. And Milton created a logo that honored our past by incorporating the circle and “D” and “C” we had used on previous covers. But at the same time, he redrew the elements with freshness and strength so that they looked like a corporate seal. I also asked Milton to design our stationery. Sol Harrison had given me a strip of artwork where Neal Adams and Dick Giordano had drawn the characters standing on top of each other’s shoulders. I showed it to Milton and said, “You don’t have to use this artwork, but it is available if you want to.” And Milton goes, “I’ve got it.” I’m stunned, “You’ve got it? Well, tell me, tell me, what’s the idea?” He said, “Oh, no, no, no. I can’t tell you the idea now, because if I do, you’ll think it came too easily to me and I’m not worth my price.” But his idea was a wonderful one. He wanted to print the characters on the back of the paper, like a watermark. On the front would be the DC Comics logo—the circular shape, like a ball—and if you looked at the paper in the light, it would seem as though the characters on the back were holding it up. GREENBERGER: It was a great touch. KAHN: It was a great touch. It was totally inspired. [laughs] And our memo pads followed suit so that each page of the pad had the DC logo on the front and then the characters, a different character on each page, interacting with the DC logo on the back; the Flash running through it, the logo crushing the Joker, all using the art like watermark. There came

Balancing Act (left) Graphics from a mid-1990s version of DC’s memo paper, featuring a tower of heroes on the back side of the sheet, “holding” up the DC bullet, which was printed on the front side. TM & © DC Comics.

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memorable, searing images was of Superman shrieking to the heavens as he held a dead Supergirl in his arms. I think that series told our readers that we meant business, that we were going to tell stories where there were real consequences, where things really mattered. GREENBERGER: Absolutely. Now, on the other hand, you guys spent a lot of time and effort developing a kids line around 1983 that never happened. Do you have any recollection of that? KAHN: None. [chuckles] None. You say it never happened. Did we never publish it? GREENBERGER: There were at least three or four titles, Roy Thomas was going to be heavily involved as a writer, Nick Cuti was going to edit them, the archived Sugar and Spike stories that Sheldon Mayer was producing for the European market were finally going to see print. And first issues were produced then nothing happened. KAHN: Hmm, Bobby, I don’t remember that. [Editor’s Note: But we remember! See John Wells’ article later in this very magazine.] Clearly, you know so much more about the DC history than I do, even though I was there at the same time.

JENETTE KAHN DC COMICS CAMEOS

All art is TM & © DC Comics.

Jenette’s work at DC was not always relegated to being behind the scenes, as these cameo appearances prove. (Special thanks to John Wells for providing these scans.) (clockwise from top right) 1. A MADcap look at DC’s editorial department in Plop! #24 (Nov.–Dec. 1976). Art by Sergio Aragonés. 2. On a film set, with Len Wein, in Wonder Woman #286 (Dec. 1981). Script by Robert Kanigher, art by Jose Delbo and Dave Hunt. 3. Toasting Julie Schwartz in Superman #411 (Sept. 1985). Script by Elliot Maggin, art by Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson. 4. In the Supergirl story in Superman Family #182 (Mar.–Apr. 1977). Script by Jack C. Harris, art by Mike Vosburg and Al Milgrom. 5. With Joe Orlando, a visit to the House of Secrets. From House of Mystery #252 (May–June 1977). Credits on page.

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TM & © DC Comics.

a time, as there does in every company’s life, when some of those things had to change, but for many, many years, they were our symbols. GREENBERGER: So you embraced the direct-sales market, you brought in first Roger Slifer, then Mike Flynn, followed by Bruce Bristow, to start handling your sales channels. It was taking off and working well. And then you got convinced to produce The New Teen Titans, one of the classic sales jobs from Len and Marv. KAHN: So without a question, they did a great job because I told you the last time we talked, I had read The Teen Titans as we had been publishing them and I thought, “Oh, no. These comics are so lame.” [chuckles] But Marv and Len came into my office and said, “You’re right. Those are lame, but we see them differently.” And then they laid out a vision for me which I thought, “Okay. All right, that sounds possible.” And it turned out to be a watershed series. They just did a bang-up job and so did George Pérez. GREENBERGER: Oh, yeah. It helped turn DC’s fortunes around in the minds of the consumers who were so used to a different standard of storytelling and art from the Marvel books. So it was a big step up, big step forward. KAHN: What I also remember is George deciding he was going to cram as many characters as possible onto a cover, and he did. GREENBERGER: Oh, yeah. KAHN: One of the things we decided with the series was that the stakes were going to be very real. If we bumped off a character during the course of the Crisis, the character would remain dead, and we were able to honor that promise for a number of years. I understand that some of those characters have returned. [chuckles] GREENBERGER: Just about all of them. KAHN: [laughs] But you know, for a long time, one of the most

a middle, and an end. Ronin knocked down barriers TAKING A LEAP WITH RONIN and raised a lot of optimism about what might be GREENBERGER: Well, you know, it’s a lot of years possible in comics. and you certainly had other things to focus Artists and writers had been thinking on. And some of those other things you that these things were possible for a focused on were the production values long time, but they didn’t have the of the books. As Jack Adler was leaving financial means to realize them. And staff and Bob Rozakis stepped up, we said, “We believe in your visions DC started to play around with and we’ll figure out how to make the paper stock, the color schemes, them happen.” We wanted to find the technology behind some of ways to say yes and not to say no. this which led to the Baxter paper, GREENBERGER: And from Ronin, that heavy white paper used for obviously things continued to evolve Camelot 3000. because Frank came back to do The KAHN: Well, yes, and truthfully, Dark Knight and you refined the that came out of my experience format again. You know, Bob Rozakis with Dynamite and Smash, because frank miller came up with that Prestige Format we had used Baxter. It seemed to me with the square binding. that there were alternatives to the newsprint we were using, and that if we could have a KAHN: I think that Frank wanted to have the perfect paper stock that the color would sit up on, it would binding for Ronin, but for reasons I don’t remember, make the comics that much more exciting. And so we researched costs and printing viability, and although we looked at many options, we ended up with Baxter anyway. Baxter had shown off the colors and been cost-effective for Dynamite and Smash and turned out to work for us as well. GREENBERGER: And then you personally got involved with wooing Frank Miller from Marvel to DC to do Ronin, and then actually worked with him to come up with the custom paper that was used for the book at the time. Do you remember how much lobbying it actually took to get him over here? KAHN: Well, I was looking over at Daredevil and Marvel with no small amount of envy, and Frank was really on the cutting edge with his storytelling and his art. And I thought, “We could use an infusion of that.” And so I invited Frank to lunch. We ate in the Warner dining room, and I said to him, “Tell me what it is you want to do most of all in comics and if possible, I will make it happen.” And Frank said, “Well, I have this idea for a story that involves a ronin.” I was a huge fan of Japanese samurai movies, so I knew what a ronin was, and we connected immediately on the subject matter. And then Frank said, “But I want to do this on really beautiful paper and I want to have photographic separations.” As you know, all our separations were done mechanically at that point. “And I want—I want to paint the art.” I said, “Well, let’s see if we can do that.” [chuckles] And Frank said, “If you can do that, I’ll come over and do it here.” A lot of time after that was spent working with Paul and with Paul working with Bob Rozakis. “Okay, can we find a way to make this happen? Can we satisfy Frank’s dream, his dream comic book, in a way we can afford?” We ended up with a groundbreaking book. It was printed, I think, on 80-pound stock (Baxter was 45-pound) and Lynn Varley did the color painting on Frank’s art. It was astonishingly beautiful with images like the ronin and Casey riding on horseback that just took your breath away. GREENBERGER: Mm-mm. KAHN: Ronin was really the beginning of the new era for us. It showed we were committed to comics as an art form and also showed our tremendous respect for creators, that we supported creators and supported sophisticated storytelling, too. It also showed that we didn’t necessarily have to tell a superhero story or an ongoing serialized story, that we could tell a contained story with a beginning, Jenette Kahn Issue

Slicing into New Territory Page 2 from Frank Miller’s Ronin #1 (July 1983). TM & © DC Comics.

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we weren’t able to do it. But it was something that Frank very much wanted, and it turned out to be a great thing. It brought comic books into the land of books and gave them a sense of permanence. GREENBERGER: Which worked beautifully because Frank’s Ronin sold really, really well. But to see that kind of production value brought to a traditional character like Batman really opened up the possibilities, don’t you think? KAHN: Oh, I think tremendously so. And it opened up the possibilities with story, too. We showed we were willing to play with our characters because, after all, Superman doesn’t come off tremendously well in The Dark Knight. [chuckles] And Batman, we could also say, seems rather fascistic in it. We let it be known that lesser characters might have one life as Golden Age, clean-cut heroes, but that there were many different visions of them and we were willing to realize more than one.

THE BRITISH INVASION GREENBERGER: While you were concentrating on people like Frank domestically, this was around the same time Joe and Dick went to England. Were you involved in that initial outreach to find fresh talent overseas? KAHN: Oh, yes. And actually, it was Dick and I and Karen Berger. Or maybe just Dick and I went the first time. Did Karen go the first time? GREENBERGER: No, she went later. KAHN: It was later? Then it was just Dick and I. GREENBERGER: Okay. KAHN: There was a lovely man named Rick Senett who was working for Warner Bros. in London, and I asked, “Can you help us have a party for all this British talent that we would like to get to know?” And Rick said, “Absolutely,” and he arranged everything. It was in a private room in the Savoy, I think, an extremely fancy hotel, and it was probably a little over our heads, [chuckles] this sit-down, elaborate dinner. GREENBERGER: And were you involved beyond that with meetings? KAHN: Oh, yes. We kept going back, but it was on the first trip that Karen came on that we had another party. I asked Rick Senett

DC’s Elizabethan Age (left) Camelot 3000 #1 (Dec. 1982), written by Mike W. Barr. Cover by interior artist Brian Bolland, working from a Ross Andru layout. (right) Issue #4 (Dec. 1986) of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ unmatchable Watchmen. TM & © DC Comics.

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to find us a less imposing venue, and I don’t know if I would call it a “discothèque,” but it was closer to—it was something a little less gawk and awe than the hotel. Even though England is small, the accents vary tremendously from place to place. The same is true in Scotland and Wales. So almost every freelancer we met had a different accent. Karen and I are talking to everybody and trying to readjust our hearing to be able to communicate, the various idioms and accents sounding almost like foreign languages to us. And Dick is sailing through the party with the most beatific smile on his face, talking to everyone and shaking hands and putting an arm around people’s shoulders. And afterwards, I said, “Dick, it was just amazing. I don’t see how you did it. Karen and I were really struggling.” And he said, “Look, with my hearing [loss], I knew I wasn’t going to make out anything. I just turned down my hearing aids and smiled.” [mutual laughter] GREENBERGER: Yeah, that infusion of people like Brian Bolland and Dave Gibbons and Alan Moore, those first creators to do substantive work for the company. How much do you credit that with changing the company’s fortunes? KAHN: Along with people like Frank, I think we got some of our best ideas and our best comics from our British talent, books like Camelot 3000, with a tip of the hat, of course, to Mike … I just had a synapse lapse. Who wrote Camelot 3000? GREENBERGER: That would be Mike Barr. KAHN: Mike Barr, right. So yes, a tip of the hat to him because that was a transatlantic collaboration. The story was great and Brian Bolland’s art—it felt new, it felt fresh. And when you talk about people like Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, when we started to publish Watchmen, we would race up and down the halls when an issue came in. It was so exhilarating to see this kind of work, to think that comics could tell these kinds of stories. If we just got a script of Alan’s, it was so intense, so dense, the scripts were taking our breath away. So starting with Camelot— an early harbinger of books like Ronin—Dark Knight, Watchmen, V For Vendetta, all of these comics started to usher in a kind of Elizabethan Age for DC Comics.

BATMAN’S LONG ROAD TO THE SCREEN GREENBERGER: So there we are in 1980 at the July 4th convention. We’re handing out Batman pins because you had cut a deal with Michael Uslan and Ben Melniker for a Batman movie. And then it took nine years. KAHN: [chuckles] Well, I wish I could say that I cut the deal, but Ben Melniker and Michael Uslan went direct to Bill Sarnoff on that. GREENBERGER: Oh, okay. I mean, Uslan cut that deal and Swamp Thing almost simultaneously because at least he understood the stuff could adapt well. He had the passion and he has continued to find these properties. That’s been his career. KAHN: Oh, you know, Michael’s been great at that, and he has a complete passion for comics. GREENBERGER: Rather. So in either case, once the deal was signed, were you at all involved in looking at the scripts or casting or anything for Swamp Thing or Batman? KAHN: Not with Swamp Thing, but I was intimately involved with Batman. GREENBERGER: What were the struggles to get this up and running between the time the deal was cut in 1980 and the time Tim Burton was signed in around ’87 or so. KAHN: Let me see if I can remember this correctly. By this time, Michael and Ben Melniker had brought Batman to Jon Peters and Peter Guber when they were at— GREENBERGER: They were at Columbia. KAHN: No, they weren’t. GREENBERGER: Oh, this is pre–Columbia, then. KAHN: It’s after. Let’s see, what was their company’s name? [hums while trying to remember] Polygram! Jon and Peter had their own production company and Ben and Michael brought Batman to them and they took over the rights. When Warner Bros.

brought Jon and Peter into the studio with major producing deals, they brought Batman with them— I should back up a little. When Ben Melniker and Michael first got Batman from Bill, they brought it to Warner Bros. The first two Superman movies were out by that time and they had been the most successful movies to date in Warner Bros. history. Despite that, Warner Bros. turned down Batman. So Ben and Michael shopped the property and ultimately brought it to Peter and Jon. We would have lost Batman altogether, at least in terms of the studio and Time Warner, except that Warner Bros. brought Jon and Peter into the Warner Bros. fold. They brought Batman with them and that gave Warner Bros. the chance to make Batman again. Mark Canton was the young exec on Batman and he brought in Tom Mankiewicz to write the script. GREENBERGER: Right. KAHN: And Mark said to me, “Jenette, please come to this meeting to hear Tom pitch his ideas. Jon Peters is going to be there and Jon Peters can be really out of control and I’m afraid of what he might say or do. I hope that you’ll step in and, you know, help me out here.” So Tom Mankiewicz comes in and Jon is there. Tom is incredibly hostile and the film he pitches sounds more like a James Bond movie, quite frankly, than a Batman movie. I made a few comments and Tom went ballistic. And Jon Peters, a person Mark was worried might lose control, Jon is this amazing peacemaker. “Tom, Tom,” he says, “you know Jenette’s not criticizing you. She’s just talking about who Batman is and what he’s meant over these many years. I’m fascinated by what she’s saying. Why don’t we just sit and listen to her?” And the meeting took a very different turn. But ultimately, we believed Tom was the wrong writer. He didn’t really grasp what was unique about Batman and Warner Bros. moved on. It was Jenny Lee, another young executive at Warner Bros., who had seen a Tim Burton short and thought he might be a great director. That was a huge leap because Tim hadn’t yet done a feature film, but he was an enormously creative young talent. At Jenny’s urging, Warner Bros. became very interested in Tim and they decided to give him Pee-wee’s Big Adventure. And they gave him another project, too, so that he would have a bigger movie under his belt before he tackled Batman. Jenette Kahn Issue

Hollywood Bound (left) The 1982 Swamp Thing movie helped clear a path for 1989’s Batman blockbuster. Movie poster courtesy of Heritage (www.ha.com). (right) From the Batman Returns set, director Tim Burton. (below) DC’s adaptation of the first Batman movie. Art by Jerry Ordway. TM & © DC Comics. Photo © 1992 Warner Bros.

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GREENBERGER: Mm-mm, which is exciting. KAHN: It was very exciting. GREENBERGER: Very exciting, because he paid attention to the source material. KAHN: It was the first time that somebody really looked at what we were doing and was inspired by it and faithful to its spirit. Tim’s Batman had its own imaginative leaps, but he understood that there were exciting things happening in the comics that could be drawn upon.

CASTING THE DARK KNIGHT

No Laughing Matter Batman: The Killing Joke, by Alan Moore and Brian Bolland, not only influenced DC’s Bat-lore for years to come but imprinted Tim Burton’s vision of the Joker. (inset) A rare promo pin for the Sgt. Rock movie that never happened, starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. TM & © DC Comics.

GREENBERGER: Oh, Beetlejuice. He went from Pee-wee’s Big Adventure to Beetlejuice to Batman. KAHN: Right, right, thank you. So Tim was earning his chops, starting with something that was closer to the shorts he’d done at Disney, the very successful feature Pee-wee’s Big Adventure, then moving on to Beetlejuice, which had a bigger budget and was closer in spirit to Batman with some dark passages and special effects. And then Tim did Batman. I have to give real credit to Warner Bros., because they entrusted a franchise character to a young and up-and-coming talent. Tim proved to be a visionary when it came to Batman and Warner Bros. made the same kind of exciting choice when they selected Christopher Nolan for the Batman reboot. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we were publishing very exciting Batman material. GREENBERGER: Oh, sure. KAHN: Not just The Dark Knight, but The Killing Joke, too. Tim would hold up The Killing Joke at meetings with the studio and potential licensees and say, “This is what I want my movie to look like.”

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GREENBERGER: Were you among those who were concerned when Burton cast Michael Keaton? KAHN: Mark Canton called me up and said, “Jenette, I really have to talk to you.” And I said, “What about?” And Mark said, “Well, we’re thinking of casting Michael Keaton as Batman.” And I said, “Oh, Mark, you must be kidding.” [chuckles] He said, “Look, look, I understand your reaction. That was exactly my reaction when it was first proposed.” I guess it must have been Tim, coming off of Beetlejuice, who proposed it, since Michael Keaton had starred in that. We had approval on the casting of Batman, so Mark had to convince me. “But you know, we’d give him great hair and build up his costume and I think he would be believable.” Mark was tremendously passionate and I finally said, “All right.” In the end, Michael Keaton was, I think, the best Batman of them all. He conveyed the conflict of a man who was sufficiently troubled that he could put on a costume and go out and fight crime. GREENBERGER: Mm-mm, okay. And when it switched from Michael Keaton to Val Kilmer for the third film, I thought physically, he seemed fine. I’m not sure how you felt about his casting. KAHN: For me, Michael Keaton was the right Batman. Even though I enjoyed Val Kilmer and George Clooney’s work as Batman, I didn’t think either one was nearly as successful as Michael. But then again, we had different directors, and the scripts were— the scripts were faltering. GREENBERGER: Right. KAHN: I was in an ongoing argument with the studio, because even though Tim Burton trusted the source material, the studio execs did not. They didn’t believe audiences would turn out if you had just one villain, as you had the Joker in the first Batman movie. They always had at least two and ran through, or I should say burned through, villains like Two-Face who could have been thrilling if they’d been explored in depth rather than used as decorative add-ons to make the movie seem bigger and brassier. GREENBERGER: Oh, absolutely. KAHN: Needless to say, I never succeeded. [chuckles] But it was always something I would bring to the studio and try to explain why more was less. My arguments fell on deaf ears. GREENBERGER: Mm, pity that. And there was Batman and the sequels through the 1980s, there was the two Swamp Thing movies followed by the Swamp Thing TV series, and a lot of development on things like Plastic Man and Sgt. Rock that never went anywhere. How frustrating was it for you to try to get Hollywood interested in the comics material for either film or television?

Burton’s Bat-Cast (above) Jenette admits to an initial resistance to the casting of Michael Keaton as Batman, but now regards him as her favorite of the movie Batmen. Jack Nicholson and Michael Keaton in a publicity still from director Tim Burton’s Batman. (right) John Wesley Shipp as TV’s Flash. TM & © DC Comics.

WORKING WITH THE CREATORS KAHN: It was tremendously frustrating, because those of us who were involved with comics understood that they lent themselves to totally engrossing, thrilling, and entertaining movies. Yet despite the record-making successes of the Superman and Batman movies, Warner Bros. was not persuaded to move on our other characters. There was a lot of development, but I don’t think that the execs at Warner Bros. had confidence in comics or in the characters that sprang from them. And it wasn’t really until Marvel started making movies, and some of them quite exceptional superhero movies, that Warner Bros. realized it was sitting on a treasure trove. GREENBERGER: Right. Now the other success, thanks to Tim Burton and Batman, was, of course, in the early ’90s, the Flash show on CBS. This really seemed to get Les Moonves and the people over at CBS kind of excited about this stuff, because I remember you had editorial working with you to produce a fair number of quickie bibles to try and push different properties. And yet The Flash only lasted for a season. KAHN: Sadly, The Flash was a flash in the pan. GREENBERGER: Yeah, but I don’t recall, were you involved much with that show? KAHN: I was involved with that at the very beginning with the two writers. GREENBERGER: Bilson and DeMeo. KAHN: Paul DeMeo? GREENBERGER: Yes. And Danny Bilson. KAHN: Like Tim, Danny and Paul also had respect for our comics and we were producing bibles in which we’d extracted our best stories. We couldn’t ask them to wade through four decades of superhero comics, especially when there were so many bad stories along with the good. So we tried to give Danny and Paul what we felt were some of the better and more interesting stories that might lend themselves to TV.

GREENBERGER: But it all came from the source material, and the ’80s was a really interesting decade because you could feel momentum building as DC embraced the direct-sales market and started to produce material specifically for the market, things like Camelot 3000 and then Ronin, and playing around with the paper stock and the packaging. And the British Invasion and how important that was. But by this point, you and Paul had also introduced the royalties system. And what do you think the royalties did for DC’s ability to attract talent? KAHN: Well, it wasn’t just the royalties. One of the things that was so patently clear when I came to DC Comics was that creators did not have rights. I knew that was totally unjust and they should have rights, whether there was a union pressing for them or not. I felt this keenly because I had been a creator myself and wasn’t allowed to participate in the enormous success of my own creations. GREENBERGER: Right. KAHN: And so I knew what it was to be on that side of the desk and not to be treated fairly and I wanted—with all my heart, really— to make that change at DC. Royalties were just one aspect of that comprehensive change to ensure that the artists and writers were guaranteed credits in the comics, that they were guaranteed the return of their artwork, that if we in any way damaged or lost their artwork, we would compensate them for that, that they would have a share of ancillary income that came out of their characters and their creations. And we were determined that when we could afford to give royalties, we would do that, too. Comics were losing money when I came to DC, so we couldn’t enact a royalty program right away. But as soon as our comics were in the black, we initiated the royalty plan as well. GREENBERGER: That reminds me that, one of the things that you guys really didn’t get enough credit for was when you cut the Kenner deal for

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the Super Powers figures, you actually hired Jack Kirby to do some design work to help qualify for some creator participation in his Fourth World characters, which was a really generous thing for DC to do. KAHN: Well, even though we enacted all these rights, they only dated from the time that I came to DC. I came in ’76, and unfortunately, we couldn’t give ancillary income retrospectively because we weren’t there and couldn’t say exactly who did what. To our great regret, older creators who had worked in the trenches and produced some of our most memorable characters and storylines weren’t going to be rewarded for the work that they had done. Jack was one of those venerated, amazing talents and we just wanted to find a way that we could recognize, financially, his enormous contributions, and we used the Kenner deal to do that. GREENBERGER: Which is fabulous. Like I said, there was this momentum building up. You were doing great things for the creators, you were reaching out to new talent, you were trying new packages. And then, layered over all that, the company was expanding. I got hired then, along with many people, the licensing department was growing, Joe’s special projects group was growing, and so on. Do you recall that you were feeling as this momentum was growing and the company was expanding? KAHN: Oh, absolutely. The last time when we spoke, I think I said it was a bit of an Elizabethan Era in terms of how fecund the creativity was. We were getting exceptional work from extraordinary creators, people like Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons, Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Dave McKean—I don’t want to truncate the list. I could go on and on and on. We felt it first on the creative side, and I think it was probably most exhilarating of all to feel it there. But we were able to spin out the momentum we were gaining in the comics to other areas of the company. We managed to stop the hemorrhaging of comic sales and built a new outlet for them that continued to grow. There were a number of us involved in implementing these changes, and we all felt that we were working shoulder-to-shoulder and creating a new era in comics. GREENBERGER: It didn’t all work, because in the early ’80s, you were banking heavily on the Atari comics, based on the games. And you brought Dick [Giordano] on board in October 1980 and you were really gearing up to do a ton of that material. And then it all vanished overnight, seemingly. Do you recall that? KAHN: [laughs] Well, we never looked at Atari comics as a huge profit center. We would have loved to have built it into that, but we were not relying on those comics as one of the pillars of our profitability. But we saw it as a tremendous opportunity—Atari was a sister company and one of the first new technology companies—and it was enjoying

Not Quite a Game Changer Detail from the back cover original art of Atari Force #5, the last issue of a mini-comics run produced for video games which proceeded the ongoing Atari Force title. Art by Gil Kane and Dick Giordano. © 1983 Atari.

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unprecedented success. We forged a relationship with Atari in the hope of expanding our customer base by inserting comics into their game cartridges. But I didn’t bring Dick on because of Atari. GREENBERGER: Oh, I was mistaken. KAHN: No, we knew we could use another editor and we brought Dick on because he was an incredible talent and someone who had the respect of the creative community. It was a leap, because hiring Dick meant a radical change in our salary structure. Dick was earning so much money freelancing that to match it would have exceeded the pay scale that we had at DC. But I believed in Dick so much that I went to Bill Sarnoff, the chairman of our division, and made a very strong case for him. Making a strong case for Dick meant that we had to raise salaries proportionately for everyone else, and that wasn’t something Bill was eager to do, but somehow we got it through. We brought Dick on and he was a terrific contributor to our success at DC. GREENBERGER: Now it had been you, Joe, and Paul, and then Dick comes on board and very quickly, the trio becomes a quartet. How was that group dynamic back then? KAHN: As I remember, we moved Joe into special projects and Dick took over the comic-book line. GREENBERGER: Right. KAHN: No one stepped on anybody’s toes because each person had a discrete area. In addition, we had a tremendous sense of purpose and were together at an incredibly exciting time. We not only worked hard to change the business, but we managed to enjoy it, too. And we had fun together. Paul continued to be the person who would say no to me and I always respected that because his negativity made me better. [chuckles] When he said no to an idea, I worked all the harder to prove to him how just what a good idea it was. I used to walk into Paul’s office and say, “Oh, I have another idea.” And Paul would say, “You know you’ve had too many ideas today. I have a little folder here where I’m putting your ideas and we can take some of these out later.” [mutual laughter] GREENBERGER: Oh, that sounds like him. KAHN: I had nothing but the greatest respect and affection for both Dick and Joe, but Paul and I had a dynamic that lasted through all those years and continues even now that we’re both out of DC Comics. I was the positive one and he was the skeptic. Paul always said that I saw around corners. But Paul loved detail and understood how to make things happen. If I saw something around the corner, Paul knew how to implement it. We were a wonderful team. I cherish that relationship to this day as I do the relationship I had with Dick and with Joe. GREENBERGER: [sighs] I miss those guys. KAHN: Yes.

MARVEL TO LICENSE DC’S CHARACTERS? GREENBERGER: Jim Shooter wrote a blog post recently that’s had a lot of people wagging their tongues, and I wouldn’t mind getting your input on this one. KAHN: Oh, well, I don’t know anything about his blog… GREENBERGER: Well, Jim tells the story that in February 1984, one month after I joined the company, he was called by Bill Sarnoff out of the blue and they began a series of conversations about basically shutting down DC Comics and licensing the comics to Marvel. And Marvel got as far as figuring out which core titles they would want to revamp and so on and so on until the deal fizzled for—I guess it never even got past a couple of conversations. But I never knew that. Did you? KAHN: Never. It’s a total shock to me. I’m trying to think of what we were publishing in ’84. GREENBERGER: Well, Camelot 3000 was winding down, it was just around the time of Ronin, it was just before Crisis on Infinite Earths. KAHN: Had we published Ronin yet? GREENBERGER: It was just coming out. You know, it was a really interesting period, because things were still building up. But in looking at what the company was doing at the time, I’ve absolutely no idea why Bill might even have thought of pulling the plug. KAHN: No, we’re clearly not in our heyday yet, but it’s also not a time when we’re losing money. I think the hemorrhaging is behind us. GREENBERGER: Absolutely. KAHN: So as I said, I know nothing about this and I can’t even say if it’s it true or not. GREENBERGER: Well, interestingly, [Shooter] ran facsimiles, or scans, of the memos he wrote back at in February ’84, talking about this. So it seemed to be legitimate.

KAHN: Wow. And what, he also published the scans? GREENBERGER: Yeah. I can send you a link if you’re curious. KAHN: Oh, it’s okay. Thanks, Bobby, it’s not necessary. But the only thing I can imagine is that there was some kind of corporate pressure. I don’t know if there was, but I can’t think of any other reasons. Yeah, really, it just totally baffles me. GREENBERGER: Oh, good. That’s two of us, then. KAHN: So it was just about like giving Marvel the comics but retaining all other rights? GREENBERGER: Yeah, licensing the characters only for print. KAHN: For print. Well, Bill may have wanted to make DC more profitable and thought if retained the rights for merchandise and television and movies but didn’t have to worry about the comics’ profitability, then his own bottom line as the chairman of Warner Publishing might look better. GREENBERGER: Hey, like I said, I just wanted to ask. KAHN: [chuckles] This must have created a furor? What have people been saying? GREENBERGER: Well, nobody had heard of this before and they were like—there was a certain amount of curiosity, what would Marvel have done with those characters at that time, what that would have meant to guys like Joe and Dick and you and Paul. There was some speculation as to why it never happened. You know, it just stirred things up for about a week. KAHN: Have you talked to Paul about it? GREENBERGER: No, not yet. KAHN: If Paul had known, of course he’d have talked to me about it. He would have been in a tizzy at the thought. So I think that none of us knew a thing.

We Asked the “Answer Man” Bob Rozakis, who generously submitted these photos, shares, “The DC Olympics took place at a company-wide retreat in early 1985 at a place in Great Gorge, New Jersey. There was a lot of business-related stuff, but we organized the Olympics to create group activities. There were races in the hotel pool, a game of Family Feud, other races, and physical contests.” Some names you might recognize: (top left) Robyn McBryde (front row left), Albert DeGuzman (front row center), Bob Rozakis (back row left), Barbara Randall (Kesel) and Sal Amendola (back row, 3rd and 4th from left); (top right) and Joe Orlando (standing at right). And we’re certain you can spot the always-fashionable Jenette Kahn in each of the photos!

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World’s Finest Comebacks From DC’s big year, 1986: (left) John Byrne’s Superman revamp, starting in The Man of Steel #1; and (right) back to basics with the Dark Knight in “Batman: Year One,” premiering in Batman #404, from writer Frank Miller and artist David Mazzucchelli. TM & © DC Comics.

CONTINUITY IN CRISIS GREENBERGER: So anyway, in publishing, on top of the talent, and on top of the formatting and stuff, from a content standpoint, what was starting to bubble up was Marv’s idea for a 50th anniversary comic that evolved into the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Were you one of the people who felt that continuity had gotten too convoluted? KAHN: Oh, absolutely. In the parallel worlds you could undercut what you were doing on Earth, so that events on Earth didn’t matter so much. You’d have a tragedy or a death on Earth that could be reversed on other worlds. And we felt strongly, let us have one world where the stakes really matter. GREENBERGER: Mm-mm. Now, you know, Crisis led to Who’s Who and the big 50th anniversary. From what you remember, do you feel the company accomplished its goals at the time? KAHN: Through Crisis? GREENBERGER: Yeah. KAHN: I thought Crisis was a colossal success in so many ways. It was one of those series where you waited with bated breath for the next issue.

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GREENBERGER: Right. KAHN: And it was full of drama and action and heartfelt, wrenching emotions. The collapse of those many worlds into one just seemed to heighten everything that happened now on Earth-Prime, our own, very own world. GREENBERGER: Sure. Now during this, obviously you, Dick, and whoever agreed it was time to really revamp the trio—Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. And I guess some of that grew from Frank giving you the idea for Batman: Year One as a follow-up to Dark Knight. But then, you basically went out and recruited John Byrne for Superman and had almost an open casting call for Wonder Woman. You know, how desperately did they really need to be revamped? KAHN: I thought our flagship characters desperately needed to be revamped. In our stories prior to Crisis and other watershed books like Dark Knight and Year One, plot was almost always imposed upon the characters. What we wanted to do was reverse that equation and have the characters determine the plot. That was the underlying fundament of the changes to our three major characters and then to all our characters. GREENBERGER: So why John Byrne? KAHN: Oh, you know, Bobby, I’m not quite sure anymore. [Bob laughs] Let me try to remember. John was doing X-Men, I think. GREENBERGER: Yeah. KAHN: As I said, I wanted our characters to determine where a story would go. And although X-Men was extremely complex, you knew the characters, you cared about them. GREENBERGER: Oh, sure. KAHN: And even if they were flawed—and sometimes particularly because they were flawed—you cared

interviewed me yesterday about Wonder Woman and I said, “Go talk to Karen Berger [chuckles], because Karen will remember much better than I.” Memory aside, I have nothing but the highest praise for the work George did on Wonder Woman. I think it still stands as the best realization of the character.

DC’s BIGGEST YEAR? GREENBERGER: Excellent! I really want to talk to you about 1986, which to me was the highlight year for the company. KAHN: But what happened in ’86? What happened in ’86? [mutual laughter] GREENBERGER: Well, basically, DC relaunched Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, there was Howard Chaykin’s The Shadow, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ Watchmen, DC entered the bookstore market with the trade collection of Dark Knight—I mean, it was quite the year! KAHN: That’s a year! [laughs] I think the way you describe it, Bobby, is the most accurate. For more than a decade, we had been working and laying the groundwork to fundamentally change the industry, to see that talent got the rights they deserved, to change the methods of distribution so comic books were profitable where they hadn’t been, to move comics from an ephemeral kids medium to a sophisticated art form. And we were lucky that a confluence of all that good work resulted in a banner year for DC. GREENBERGER: DC had a number of different things working at the same time. One, Frank had been working on The Dark Knight for several years, finally got it done enough that it came out in 1986. You’d picked up the Condé Nast rights to The Shadow and you gave it to Howard Chaykin, who gave it a fresh coat of paint. At the same time, you were revamping the top three characters. So was there any concern that you recall that there was too much going on? KAHN: I don’t think we ever felt there was too much going on. It was an exhilarating time where we felt we were seeing the fruits of our labors. The fact that so many good things happened in the same year was not entirely by design, but revamping our top three characters was. GREENBERGER: And if I understand it right, the work and thinking Frank brought to The Dark Knight came at a good time, as you were thinking of the revamp which is how he got tapped for Batman. And we talked last time about how you picked John Byrne and how you recruited him to come and breathe new life into Superman after considering pitches from Steve Gerber, Cary Bates, and Elliot Maggin. On the other hand, Wonder Woman was also a bake-off. There were multiple pitches that were being presented until Greg Potter’s was the one that really attracted your attention. Do you remember what it was about Greg’s take that really interested you? KAHN: I can’t even remember the other takes, but we wanted to bring real depth to the character and real relevance in the issues Wonder Woman dealt with, and the series did this and more. GREENBERGER: And as the year progressed, you found yourself mining absolutely brand-new territory for the field by collecting The Dark Knight in softcover and hardcover and actually hitting the bookstore market through the Warner Books distribution arm. Did you at the time think it was the beginning of a new way to package the material or was this just one way to package this exceptional one-time event?

Princess of Power Detail from the cover of Wonder Woman #1 (Feb. 1987). Art by George Pérez. TM & © DC Comics.

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TM & © DC Comics.

about Marvel’s characters. The idea of imperfection became a very important concept in the revamp of our flagship characters. They were part of the Golden Age of Comics and had come of age on the brink of World War II. They’d gone to war on behalf of America and they stood for everything patriotic and true and noble and right, and that was the perfect realization of our characters at that time. But 40 years later, we were in a very different era. The counterculture and the war in Vietnam had changed the way we looked at the world and the purely heroic characterization of our superheroes was too simplistic. We wanted them to be as fully realized as possible and that meant having imperfections. In addition to his extremely exciting drawing skills, John had shown that he understood that. And insofar as comic books have stars, John was one. We felt that he could not only pull off the creative but would also attract tremendous interest from the thousands of readers who loved the work he’d done on X-Men. GREENBERGER: Okay. And I know you were very hands-on with John and Andy Helfer, the original editor, on shaping what the Superman material was going to be. But what about Wonder Woman? Because of it obviously being a female character, and also one of the flagship characters, she needed probably the most sprucing up. Were you heavily involved in picking the team for that? KAHN: You know, I just have to stop and ask you—because I remember it was George who took over, but who was the original writer? GREENBERGER: Of the many pitches that were received, Greg Potter, who’d done Jemm, Son of Saturn, had the right proposal that everybody seemed to respond to. And then I guess you, Dick, and Janice Race, who was the editor, went out and got George involved as his post–Crisis follow-up. And then George took over. KAHN: Of course. I may be doing an injustice to Greg, but I remember George as the true visionary on the Wonder Woman revamp. But NPR

TM & © DC Comics.

KAHN: You know, I think the concept of new packaging goes back to Nelson Bridwell’s The World of Krypton. Nelson had an idea for doing several connected books, a storyline about Krypton that went into detail about Superman’s home planet. We decided to publish it, and to brand the three books and distinguish them, we took our cue from television and called them a “miniseries.” GREENBERGER: Of course. KAHN: But we discovered that to sell the comics in Canada, it was more financially favorable to have four issues in a series, so although World of Krypton was our first miniseries, it may be our only three-issue one. I think after that, we went to four. GREENBERGER: Actually, no. The Untold Legends of The Batman by Len [Wein] and John Byrne and Jim Aparo was also three issues. KAHN: It was also three? Then I guess shortly after that, [mutual laughter] we went to four. I love it, Bobby, that you know all these things. Nelson was sort of the geek hero of DC Comics. He had his own private enthusiasms and was passionately devoted to them. The World of Krypton was very much his idea and it showed that there was an appetite for a contained story that filled in gaps in the DC Universe. We learned that the gaps that weren’t filled in were of tremendous fascination to our readers. Once we saw how successful a miniseries could be, we said, “why not a maxiseries?” The idea was to tell an epic story over 12 issues and we did that with our very first one, Camelot 3000. The story was terrific, the art was truly beautiful, and it again showed us that we could take risks, pioneer new formats, and have success. We followed the advances of The World of Krypton and Camelot 3000 with Ronin. It, too, was a contained series, but we printed it on high-end paper stock and used photographic color separations that allowed for a much more painterly approach. These were all baby steps that each time led us to push the boundary even further. The same thing was true for our first trade paperbacks. We thought, “All right, these new formats have worked, but what if we actually had a perfect binding?” Did Ronin have perfect binding? GREENBERGER: No, it was Dark Knight that started it. KAHN: The Dark Knight had perfect binding, right. So from Ronin with its glossy paper and its beautiful color separations, we moved on to Dark Knight with the first perfect binding, the first spine in comics, or at least certainly at DC Comics. We were able to print the title on the spine, and because of the heft of the package and because of that square binding, you could put it on your bookshelf. And thinking like that led us to ask, “Okay, why not more books? Why can’t comics be comic books really, truly?” Did we dream all that at the very beginning? Did we envision all that we did The World of Krypton? No, [chuckles] but each step brought us closer to realizing it. GREENBERGER: And obviously, it must have worked, because soon after you collected Watchmen and then started collecting everything else. And all of a sudden, there was this new line of revenue and new line of material to attract new readers. Was the sister company, Warner Books, as enthusiastic at the potential here? KAHN: I think everybody was so tentative at first. You know, people back

“Loud Shirt Day” Sartorial sanity thrown to the wind in the production department of DC’s 666 Fifth Avenue office, ca. 1985–1986. (top) Standing: Richard Bruning, Jenette Kahn, and Bob Rozakis (who submitted these photos). (bottom) Todd Klein (2nd from left) joins the fun. 28 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

in the day still thought of comics as a kids’ medium. They couldn’t believe that grown-ups would actually read comics and consider them literature. There was a certain disdain for comics, but we were sister companies and Warner Books thought it could take a flyer— how great was the risk? But each time we tried something new, the market showed there was room for it. Our book business started small, but trade paperbacks and graphic novels are now a source of enormous revenue for comics and a lot of it has to do with that sense of permanence that comes with the perfect binding. Many of us read these comics as they were coming out and could not wait for the next issue. It killed us that the last issue of Camelot 3000 took months and months and months to arrive. [chuckles] But there were many people who weren’t reading DC when these comics were being published in series form. For them, the trade paperbacks served another purpose. It was a way to catch up on the storylines they’d missed. Many people confused the collected editions with the graphic novel, thinking they’re interchangeable, but they weren’t. The thinking for each was different. GREENBERGER: Oh, absolutely. KAHN: The graphic novel was something that we designed from the get-go as a contained story. Yes, it had a perfect binding, but it wasn’t originally published in a series of single issues over a period of time. On the other hand, a trade paperback was a collection of single issues that formed one story arc inside an ongoing title. They both had perfect bindings, they both looked like books—but their origin was different.

SPECTRE OF CENSORSHIP GREENBERGER: So the year, the 50th Anniversary in 1985, was big— 1986 was even bigger because almost every month, something phenomenal was happening. Unfortunately, though, the year ended on a troublesome note. Let me recount so you see the context. In 1984, Alan Moore took over writing Swamp Thing. And everybody saw it as incredibly sophisticated, wonderful writing and encouraged more British talent to come over to the United States, and they were welcomed with open arms. But with the increased focus on DC, because of the anniversary and because of all the other events, there was some concern that books like Swamp Thing and some of the other stuff in development might not be appropriate for newsstands.

Labels Swamp Thing’s content earned the series the labels “Sophisticated Suspense” and “Suggested for Mature Readers.” (left) Swamp Thing #33 (Feb. 1985). Cover by John Totleben. (right) Issue #79 (Dec. 1988). Cover by Rick Veitch and Tom Yeates. TM & © DC Comics.

And rather than take the Comics Code off, there was thought of labeling it as “Sophisticated Suspense,” as happened. But then, by the end of ’86, DC had decided to do some internal guidelines, a rating system that prompted a protest letter from about a dozen talents including Alan Moore, Steve Bissette—who were working on Swamp Thing—Howard Chaykin, Marv Wolfman—and this caused a lot of turmoil internally and among the fans who were privy to this letter because it went public. What do you remember about that time? KAHN: Mm-mm. Well, it was clear that we were moving into territory that was not only more sophisticated and literary, but where the content was more graphic, more sexual, more violent, and more provocative. Because comics were still thought to be a kids’ medium, there were some obscenity cases and we wanted to protect the retailers who were selling our material. We scrupulously shied away from censorship. An editor might suggest changes to a writer if she thought something was lacking in quality or simply gratuitous, but this was a natural part of the ongoing dialogue between editors, artists, and writers. On principle, we made every effort to support the provocative themes our talent was exploring. At the same time, we had an obligation to stand behind the people who were selling our comics. Our solution was a ratings system where we’d print “Suggested for Mature Readers” on those comics that contained more graphic material. We didn’t want parents, especially those who still thought of comics as a kids’ medium, to be horrified if they said, “Oh, let me pick up some comics for my child,” only to find they were totally inappropriate for an eight-year old. We knew that would cause a firestorm and catapult us back to the early years of the Comics Code. Our goal was to protect retailers and create some kind of buffer between the parent and the material so that the old preconceptions about comics would not be carried home. When we got the letter from the talent with its outcry of censorship, we felt that we’d been misunderstood. We weren’t altering the content to make it more palatable. That would have been censorship. We were simply saying this content is mature. We felt we were doing it for the good of the industry and I still stand behind that. But with some of our top talents signing

the letter and charging us with censorship, it created a huge stir among fans who joined the rallying cry. I think the “Suggested For Mature Readers” still exists. Does it? GREENBERGER: Yes, it does. KAHN: Yep, [laughs] it does. I’m not sure what’s changed since I left. So we adopted it in the ’80s and it’s continued now for about 25 years. GREENBERGER: Mm-mm. KAHN: Twenty-five years, and I think it has served comics and the industry well. GREENBERGER: One follow-up to that is the letter from the talent to DC, part of their complaint was all the decisions were made entirely internally without any input from the creative talent. Looking back, do you think they should have been involved? KAHN: [long pause] I think it was appropriately a publishers’ decision. Talking to talent is never a bad thing and we always respected the input of our talent. Perhaps if we’d had conversations before the announcement we could have better explained that we weren’t censoring the material, only labeling it in an effort to protect the retailers and an industry that had once been neutered by public outcry. It might have been more judicious to talk with our artists and writers beforehand, but I don’t think that their input would have made a significant difference in our final decision. We felt we needed a protective labeling system as comics were transitioning from a kids’ medium to an adult one.

THE COMING OF VERTIGO GREENBERGER: Okay, fair enough. Moving on, the flexibility DC gave itself with these ratings, and moving away from the Comics Code, ultimately gave birth to the concept of a separate imprint. Did you see that as a natural evolution or more of a radical step forward as a publisher? KAHN: Are you talking about Vertigo? GREENBERGER: Yeah. KAHN: It wasn’t the ratings issue that led us to create Vertigo. It’s really that we were publishing a lot of material that was not synonymous with the DC superhero brand. We believed there was room for another imprint where you could tell stories that, for the most part, didn’t entail people in costumes. Prior to Vertigo, we had published a number of comics that seemed to have something in common, Jenette Kahn Issue

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TM & © DC Comics.

ADDING PIRANHA TO DC GREENBERGER: And would you say that the success of Vertigo led to, a couple of years later, the idea of Piranha Press? KAHN: Absolutely, yes. GREENBERGER: And in your mind, how did you differentiate Piranha from Vertigo aside from different pools of talent? KAHN: Piranha had more of an underground vibe than Vertigo. It was going to a little quirkier, a little more off-the-wall. It’s not a line that survived, perhaps because there wasn’t a sufficient differentiation between the two. But those were our thoughts in the beginning. GREENBERGER: You went way outside to interview a number of people for Piranha editor, some of whom DC wound up hiring, such as Mark Waid and Brian Augustyn, but you instead picked Mark Nevelow, who came from entirely outside of comics. Looking back, do you think that was the right choice? KAHN: [long pause] I know that Mark had a lot of energy he brought to the line, a lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm. But we moved on, and ultimately, Andy Helfer took over. I don’t remember the reasons why. GREENBERGER: I do believe there was some dissatisfaction with the slow rate of material being available to publish to meet, I guess, the budgets in the publishing plan. And there was some creative friction, because Mark really was a square peg in our round hole, and so I think it wound up becoming mutual. KAHN: Mm-mm, mm-mm. Well, I’d rather not comment on it because I don’t remember it clearly. GREENBERGER: Sure, but Andy did take it over, which seemed like a really good fit between Andy’s interest, talents, and skills, and the kinds of subject matter and materials you wanted to print. So he did the Big Books and you started things like Road to Perdition, those original fiction stories, and that seemed to give it a fresh life, which is probably why the title “Piranha” became “Paradox” to help differentiate it. KAHN: Ah-hah. GREENBERGER: But ultimately, it wound down. Was it just not the right time for that kind of material because the market wasn’t there? KAHN: I think that some of the things that Andy did under Paradox were great. The Big Books, for instance, are classics, and they embodied many of the qualities we hoped that Piranha would have. They were quirky with an underground feel and featured an oddball side of America, yet they were rich in detail and great, great reads. And titles like Road to Perdition and A History of Violence had a life beyond comics themselves. I do recall

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that a lot of material coming out of Paradox was very, very slow [chuckles], and perhaps we just couldn’t build up enough critical mass for it to keep going, but I’m still very proud of the things that Andy published under the imprint. GREENBERGER: Oh, absolutely. On a percentage basis, the fact that things like Road to Perdition and A History of Violence made it to the movies certainly beat so many other companies and even DC’s own characters getting to the big screen. So there’s a lot to be proud of there. KAHN: Absolutely. And some of those realizations are terrific. I think A History of Violence is a top-notch movie, where the people who adapted it took the best of what was in the comics but understood how to shape it for film.

CORPORATE DOINGS GREENBERGER: Okay, this touches on what was going on with DC as a corporate entity, and I want to discuss some of that a little bit. DC had been part of Warner Publishing, along with MAD, Warner Books, and Independent News (later Warner Publisher Services) since 1968. I know that when you first got there in 1976, Bill Gaines was, I believe, still under contract as a consultant to the company. Did you have much of a dealing with him? KAHN: No, Bill came in once a week to go over the books with our accountant Arthur Gutowitz, but Bill and I didn’t really interact. I consider it a great loss. because Bill was one of the most unique and imaginative people on the face of the planet. We talk about new companies like Google and how they’ve created such extraordinary work environments for their staffs, but Bill created his own totally crazy, fun-filled conditions for the MAD staff long, long before we had this new age of companies. He deserves nothing but respect and I wish I’d known him better. GREENBERGER: So it must have been a little weird when years later, Bill passed away and all of a sudden, DC became MAD’s corporate parent. That must have been both a challenge and an honor. KAHN: It was, without question, a complete and total honor. You know, even though MAD was part of Time Warner, Bill protected it from corporate machinations. MAD’s offices were separate from the rest of the company, on Madison Avenue—Mad Ave, of course—and Bill made certain they were on the 13th floor. A giant King Kong peered in his office window and he had zeppelins flying overhead. The staff never had to interact with anyone other than Bill, and he kept the magazine profitable all the years that he ran it so no one thought to meddle. Everyone at MAD assumed things would continue that way after Bill died, but that kind of autonomy is a fluke in corporate life and it wasn’t going to happen. They had to report to someone. Bill was, hands down, the best of best eccentrics and the word in Time Warner was that they looked for the second-most idiosyncratic person to run MAD and there was no contest. GREENBERGER: [laughs] Perfect. And in-between Bill Gaines consulting and DC gaining MAD, DC Comics was a part of Warner Publishing. I get the impression after Bill Sarnoff hired you, he was pretty much hands off the company, right? KAHN: For the most part. I met with Bill Sarnoff one morning a week and we just reviewed what was happening. But I think he was one of the people who considered it most improbable that adults could love comics. Still, we were very profitable and the company was growing, so Bill felt that as long as that continued, and as long as we touched base, everything was fine. GREENBERGER: Okay, now after a while, there was the Time Warner merger and suddenly, DC became part of Warner Bros. For you, how jarring an experience was that? KAHN: Well, we were part of Warner Publishing, and we had a good relationship with Bill, so we always assumed that wherever Bill was going, we’d be going, too, because we were part of Bill’s bailiwick.

TM & © DC Comics.

something different from superheroes, and we thought those titles deserved their own umbrella. GREENBERGER: Karen Berger became the first of Vertigo editors, ultimately becoming the head of the entire imprint, and has grown and prospered with the company ever since. What qualities do you remember Karen bringing to dealing with the subject matter and with the talent? KAHN: Dick Giordano and I made a first talent-hunting trip to the British conventions, and it may have been Paul who suggested to me that Karen might come on the second. Karen, Dick, and I had one meeting after another with British talent, and afterwards, when we returned, Karen delivered a full report of everybody we had seen with samples of all their work and personal recommendations. I was so impressed [chuckles] and said, “You should really head up this new imprint.” Karen had taken the initiative entirely on her own and her report was comprehensive. Just the fact that she thought to do it earned my respect. And she has proved to be a simply wonderful head of Vertigo. Karen’s style is low-key, but she’s developed strong personal relationships with the talent and shows tremendous respect for their ideas. With her willingness to take risks, Karen has charted bold new territory for comics under the Vertigo banner.

On the weekend of the merger, Bill called to tell me that Warner Publishing would be going over with him to Time. I had misgivings about how we’d fit in because Time was considered to be proper and “white shoe” and we were the home for nerds. But then, just before the weekend was out, Bill called to say that while most of Warner Publishing was moving to Time, we were going to Warner Bros. Bill was tremendously dismayed. We’d always been under his aegis and I think he felt that he was being stripped of one of his assets. But Bob Daly, the head of Warner Bros. who had always lusted after the DC characters, had called up Steve Ross and said, “Not so fast. If DC’s going anywhere, it’s going to us,” and Steve acceded to that. I think Bob was correct that DC should be housed at Warner Bros. Like the staff of MAD when Bill Gaines died, we thought we could continue in our usual merry way. But since we had to go somewhere, Warner Bros. was the better fit. Time Inc. was an information company, but DC and Warner Bros. were entertainment companies, and we both told stories in pictures and words. Aside from the cultural fit, we had the best content fit with Warner Bros. GREENBERGER: When I was on staff during that change, all I remember was when we moved to 1325 Sixth Avenue, we were very much guided by the Warner Bros. sensibility of “you got this kind of office because this was your rank and you got so many plants and so many guest chairs because of that.” [Jenette laughs] It was really a major adjustment for many of us. KAHN: Well, yes. But there’s no doubt that it would have been that way had we moved to Time also. Once we became part of Warner Bros., the corporate hand was upon us. But as these things go, it was a very light hand, even though it manifested itself in terms of square footage and desk chairs and potted plants. Despite being part of a hierarchal corporate culture, we still had tremendous freedom. And in corporate life, that is nothing short of a miracle. GREENBERGER: Would you say there was a learning curve on Bob Daily’s part to figure out what it is we did and how

we did it? Or was he just familiar with the characters? KAHN: I think Bob was familiar with the characters but not with the tremendous changes in the books themselves. Whether it was at Warner Bros. or Time Warner, most people of a generation were familiar with the characters but had a hard time accepting comics as a literary form. When it came to respect, we were the Rodney Dangerfield of the company. Warner Bros.’ awareness of DC was limited to its flagship characters and the revenue they could generate through TV shows, movies, and licensed merchandise. For people like Bob, who had grown up when comics were for kids, it was hard to understand that comic-book publishing, the stories we told that captured the imagination of fans, was the heart and soul of the company. It took a long time before Warner Bros. accepted that there had been a sea change, that comics had found a sophisticated and passionate audience, and that publishing was no longer a marginal business but actually made money. GREENBERGER: I remember it being jarring and I was just leaving staff in 2000 when the AOL merger happened, and I’m told it was even more jarring. KAHN: [chuckles] It was jarring because a merger that was touted as the best deal of the century became a Harvard case study of the worst. Although it was called a merger, AOL seemed to have swallowed Time Warner whole. But AOL failed to deliver on its promises. Stock prices skyrocketed when the merger was announced, then plummeted when the hype wore off. To appease investors, there were radical cuts throughout the company, and AOL, this new upstart, was calling the shots in a legendary company that had produced some of the most iconic movies, music, and publications of the 20th century. It was just a very hard time, I think, for everybody involved.

Mad About You (below) Jenette is honored on her 9th anniversary at DC at the 1985 editorial retreat. The cake reads, “Happy 9th Anniversary to DC’s First Lady.” Pictured with her are Paul Levitz and Carol Fein. Courtesy of Bob Rozakis. (top left) MAD joined the DC family under Kahn’s watch.

EDITOR-IN-CHIEF GREENBERGER: Let’s jump back to the merger for a second. One of the things that also changed when Time Warner happened and we moved over to Warner Bros. is you adopted the editor-in-chief title. What prompted that? KAHN: I wanted to recognize Paul Levitz. Paul, in so many ways, was my partner. He had come through the ranks, starting as a part-time assistant editor and rising through one position after another until I’d run out of titles [Bob chuckles]. I had the only two titles remaining, president and publisher. So I thought, “Okay, he can be publisher, then.”

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TM & © DC Comics.

I happily gave up the title of publisher to Paul, but I took on that of editor-in-chief because we were moving over to Warner Bros. and I wanted to express how important the comics were, and the title of president wasn’t sufficient, really. It didn’t convey that the beating heart of the company was its editorial content, that our business was much more than ad sales and licensing and leveraging the characters into movies, products, and television shows. Comics, the stories themselves, were where everything began. And I thought the title “editor-in-chief”—not that anybody asked [chuckles]— but I thought if they did, the editor-in-chief [title] pointed to the importance of the creative content. GREENBERGER: Makes perfect sense. And while you were publisher, early on, you revived those institutional ads that Neal Adams drew a number of, the public service ads. And then you were present and actively involved in like those Teen Titans drug issues with the corporate sponsorship. Was that an important aspect of the business to you? KAHN: I always thought that if we could entertain and do good at the same time, that would be great. Not that every comic book has to do good, but we had characters who were icons in the culture who, if they stood for something, if they said something, readers might actually listen.

We used them as spokespeople in our institutional ads, and in our ongoing titles, we introduced gay characters, talked about teenage suicide, and shined spotlights on domestic violence and gun proliferation in the schools. We tried to look at pressing issues in our society, and through the vehicle of our characters, tell stories we hoped would empower our readers, make them feel more comfortable with who they are, and let them know they had options when perhaps they thought they had none. It was an ongoing concern of ours, something that was very important to me, and we did it over and over again with artists, writers, and editors also on board and often the proposing storylines themselves. GREENBERGER: Yeah, I remember you being really, really active on the two landmines comics from the 1980s. KAHN: My interest in landmines, or landmine awareness, came because Judy Collins—the singer, Judy Collins— called me one day. She was a Special Ambassador for UNICEF, and at that time, I really knew nothing about landmines. It was before mines had become a public issue, but Judy had been spending time in Bosnia and Serbia and what she told me was devastating. Judy wanted to distribute a record to raise landmine awareness, and she’d talked to Seymour Stein at Sire Records about the idea. But Seymour said, “Oh, you really should call Jenette Kahn about this,” and Judy goes, “Oh, my God, I know Jenette. Why didn’t I think of Jenette?” When Judy proposed the album, I said, “It’s a lovely idea and I’m sure it could do a lot of good, but you want to reach kids and I don’t know if the children in these war-torn countries have anything to play it on. I’m sure I sound biased as the head of DC Comics, but comics books are such an efficient way, and such a powerful way, to reach kids. “Kids love comics and read them not once, but again and again. In addition, there’s a huge pass-along rate that would increase the number of kids we could reach. And on a per-unit basis, comics are relatively inexpensive. We could use an entertaining story to relay a potent message that would make kids aware of the danger of landmines and tell them how to keep themselves safe.” Judy said, “It’s a great idea. You should meet Madeleine Albright with me.” At that time, Madeleine Albright was our Ambassador to the U.N., and she, too, loved the idea. She gave the landmine comics her full support and got the State Department and the Department of Defense involved as well. I was asked to go on a landmine fact-finding mission to Africa and it was eye-opening. We visited countries like Rwanda, that had amazingly lush and fertile land, but couldn’t grow crops because the fields were mined. To demonstrate the stranglehold that mines had on a country, we were often asked if we would venture onto a football field if we were told there was a single mine in it. Landmines are insidious. They’re often designed to look like toys so that children will pick them up, but they kill and maim. The very real threat

The Horror of Landmines Kahn helped create several public service comics (see article beginning on page 56), including Batman: Death of Innocents in 1996. Script by Dennis O’Neil, pencils by Joe Staton, inks by Bill Sienkiewicz. TM & © DC Comics.

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Watchmen Unwatched Batman screenwriter Sam Hamm’s 1988 first draft for a Watchmen movie that was never produced. Courtesy of Heritage. Watchmen TM & © DC Comics.

of mines makes parents afraid to send their kids to school, adults afraid to farm. Even grazing one’s animals or going to the well for water is a perilous task. In Africa, we walked on narrow paths where landmines had been cleared. They were only two-feet wide and marked on both sides by nothing more than string. We could see live mines just outside the strings and I thought how easily we could be killed if anyone one of us tripped. I came back from that trip saying we had to do something. And so we donated our characters and our work and produced a series of landmine comics that UNICEF and the Department of Defense distributed in Bosnia and Serbia and later in Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. It was a wonderful experience, Bobby, because we were told that the comics were making a difference, that kids really loved them and were even reading them to their parents who sometimes were not literate. At last year’s San Diego convention, when we were open for questions, a man stood up in the audience and said, “I was in the Army and on the ground when the comics were distributed and I saw lives being saved.” And there was nothing more rewarding for me than hearing that from someone who’d been there and really saw the difference that the comics made. [Editor’s note: To learn more about this and other DC public service comics, see the article beginning on page 56.] GREENBERGER: Since you mentioned Judy Collins … you worked and operated and socialized in quite a different world than the rest of the staff. You would be at parties with people like Judy or Andy Warhol and all. Did you ever try to recruit any of the people from those worlds to do material for the comics? KAHN: [hums] Sometimes those worlds dovetailed. I’m on the board of Exit Art, and in the wake of 9-11, Exit mounted an extraordinary exhibition that’s now in the permanent collection of the Library of Congress. Artists were ask to create an 81⁄2" x 11" page expressing their feelings about the tragedy, and all of those pages, over a thousand as I remember, were hung on aisles of clotheslines throughout the space. At the same time, at DC, we were creating a 9-11 memorial book, and Exit Art exhibited the artwork from it as part of the show. Our art wasn’t usually mixed with what is considered “high art,” but we had that experience because I bridged and valued both worlds. Similarly, we published an important comic about David Wojnarowicz, a much-revered artist, filmmaker, and provocateur. As a teenager, David lived on New York streets, prostituting himself to survive, but he became a tremendously influential artist and a powerful AIDS activist. If I hadn’t had one foot in the art world—or really, one toe—we wouldn’t have done that.

EVOLVING LEADERSHIP GREENBERGER: One of the things I want to explore a bit with you is the fact that basically after the Crisis and the birth of Vertigo and also—we’re in the early 1990s now—you got involved a lot with Joe on some of the custom comics and last time, we had talked about— the landmine comics, as an example. But you really had distanced yourself a lot from the monthly comic line and seemed to be really focused in the ’90s on film and movie properties. Was that just a natural evolution of your role? KAHN: I hadn’t lost interest in our ongoing comics. We had just launched Vertigo, which was close to my heart and I was tremendously excited by the things we were doing under the Vertigo imprint. But at the same time, I felt we had a huge media opportunity and I made a concerted effort to interest Hollywood in our titles, not just our iconic superhero titles, but some of the comics, in fact, that were coming out of Vertigo. GREENBERGER: There was a tremendous number of projects that I know that you were involved in trying to sell: everything from Amethyst to the Suicide Squad. At the time, what do you think the resistance was from

either the studio or from networks? Was it just the cost of producing this kind of television or just they didn’t feel there was an audience ready yet? KAHN: Studios were behind the curve in terms of the growing popularity of comics, and not just their growing popularity, but also the age of the comic-book reader. They found it impossible to believe that the average age of our reader was 28 years old. And if I told them it was 28, they would say, “Oh, well, he’s clearly a dope.” I’d retort, “No, no, he’s an upscale consumer, one of the first adopters of new technology (I used ‘he’ because the vast majority of our readers were male at the time). These are savvy, sophisticated readers with advanced degrees.” But they just laughed it off. It was only the younger producers coming up, who perhaps read comics themselves or at least were tuned into the culture, who thought there was something worth mining in comic books. But at that time, studio execs tended to be older and more traditional. When I sold Watchmen, I sold it to Joel Silver, and that’s because Joel was one of those producers who was on the hip tip, who realized that the comics were the new wave. It was way too early then to make Watchmen. It wasn’t until Marvel started making superhero movies that Warner Bros., our chief engine for turning DC properties into movies, began to think, “Wait, maybe there is a treasure trove at DC and maybe it’s not just Superman and Batman.” As I mentioned to you before, despite the incredible success of the Superman movies and the fact that the first two were the most successful films to date in Warner Bros.’ history, it was almost impossible to get the Batman movies going there. It was only when Peter Guber and Jon Peters left Polygram and brought Batman with them to Warner Bros. that the studio agreed to make the film. Like Joel Silver, Peter and Jon were some of the hipper, younger producers of that time and they saw the value in the Batman franchise. And times were changing. A crop of young people was entering the executive ranks and many of them were ardent comic-book fans and wanted to see those comics made into movies. There were two central reasons that interest shifted to the DC properties. One was Marvel’s enormous success in leveraging its titles and the other was the changing demographic of who was making the decisions at studios and networks. Jenette Kahn Issue

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Milestone Forever Initially short-lived, DC’s Milestone imprint introduced characters that have returned to comics and animation. Alternate covers for (left) Static #1 (June 1993) and (right) Hardware #1 (Apr. 1993), both penciled by Denys Cowan and inked by Jimmy Palmiotti. TM & © DC Comics.

MILESTONE EVENTS GREENBERGER: There were a couple things that happened in publishing at much the same time I wanted to ask about. One was, were you at all involved in Dick acquiring the license to the Archie superhero characters that became the Impact line? KAHN: I don’t remember who the point person was in that deal, but that was not something that I was involved with. I would have said, “Fine, go ahead and do it,” but it wasn’t anything for which I had a passion. GREENBERGER: What about working with Derek Dingle in building Milestone? KAHN: I was a tremendous champion of Milestone and intimately involved in its formation. The founders—Derek, Dwayne McDuffie, and Denys Cowan—were passionate about creating a line of diverse, multiethnic superheroes. Even though we had been trying to include more gay and multiethnic characters in our comics, we didn’t have nearly enough diversity within the DC line. But Milestone’s entire imprint was devoted to that. And not only were the staff and artists and writers enormously talented, but they were ethnically diverse themselves. On the principle that diversity is critical and that our readers, all our readers, should be able to see themselves in our comics, Milestone was a venture I ardently supported. Just as importantly, Milestone turned out top-notch comics, so on an artistic level, I was able to support it wholeheartedly, too. GREENBERGER: And why do you think the line ultimately did not find the audience it was intended to find? KAHN: I think one of the issues that made it so difficult for Milestone to find its audience was the pattern of comic-book selling. By the time Milestone premiered, the vast majority of comics were being sold through comic-book collector stores. But just as women often didn’t feel welcome in these collectors stores that were considered “guys clubs,” few people of color frequented them, thinking that the stories and characters in the books they sold had little relevance to their lives. Nor did the stores market to that audience. No one was rolling out a sign that said, “Come, you’re welcome, and you’ll find comics you can relate to.” It was extremely hard to generate a sufficient critical mass at the collectors stores to make Milestone a success. We hoped to boost awareness of Milestone through television and movies and managed to get Static onto the WB as an animated 34 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

show. But when it came to movies based on the Milestone characters, we had no luck. Studios doubted that a superhero of color would find a large audience and the high cost of superhero movies discouraged them from trying. We wanted these characters to succeed, we wanted Milestone to succeed, and it was a tremendous disappointment to have to shut it down. GREENBERGER: Also in ’92, interestingly enough, the guys who formed Image Comics came to DC and met to talk about whether or not DC would want to publish what became Image. Were you at all involved in those conversations? KAHN: I don’t remember that, Bobby. GREENBERGER: Okay, it may not have gotten to you. KAHN: It sounds like something that would have been very worthwhile and that we would have pursued. And if it didn’t come to pass, it probably had to do with deal terms because the idea itself is a good one. GREENBERGER: Oh, absolutely. And then, from a publishing standpoint, or as the editor-in-chief in ’92, you had to sign off on killing Superman. KAHN: I was actually in those meetings. We had four Superman titles at the time with one coming out every week and we were striving for tremendous continuity among the different titles. Mike Carlin was the editor of the Superman books at that time and he had put together a tremendous team for each of the four books. To brainstorm ideas, ensure continuity, and ward off possible contradictions, we’d have retreats where we’d plan out storylines months in advance. I always felt our job description was to torture our readers, and there’s no better way to torture your readers than to torture your characters. So when Dan Jurgens piped up and said, “Well, why don’t we kill Superman?” I remember saying, “That’s a terrific idea.” It’s not that we hadn’t killed Superman in the past. I think he’d been bumped off some 14 times before, but he was always resurrected in the next issue and we weren’t talking about doing that. We were talking about killing Superman and turning it into an event of such proportions that our readers would feel that Superman was irretrievably gone from the DC Universe. GREENBERGER: Right. Now, some of that was also because the original plan was to marry Superman at that point, but because of Lois & Clark, that had to be put on hold. KAHN: The marriage also came out of the Superman retreats, but killing him was the first really big idea.

ADAPTING LOIS & CLARK GREENBERGER: As I understand it from Paul, you spent years pushing to get Warner Bros. to regain the Superman television rights back from Ilya and Alexander Salkind. You prevailed, which led to the Lois & Clark series. What was your relationship with Deborah Joy Levine and the production team? KAHN: We were the ones who had put together the bible that sold the show, so we had input in the beginning. It was called “Lois Lane’s Daily Planet,” but Deborah renamed it “Lois & Clark,” a pithier, wittier title. We pitched it to … was it CBS…? GREENBERGER: No, ABC picked it up. KAHN: ABC. My memory is so faulty, a sign of age here. But I thought it would be great to do—oh, I’m sorry, let me back up. You had asked me earlier, was there a resistance to making television shows and movies of DC properties because of the cost? That was always a factor, and in television, even more so than movies, because special effects boost TV budgets well beyond the norm. In our Superman titles, we were publishing wonderful and very human stories, not just about Superman, but about the people who inhabited his world. To circumvent the cost of special effects, I thought we could do a show where we’d spend most of the time with Clark Kent and all the people, the good ones and the bad, who frequented his life. Superman himself would be limited to cameo appearances and most of the show would play like a traditional TV drama. To pitch that idea, I worked with Mike Carlin and we created a bible called “Lois Lane’s Daily Planet.” It took sequential panels out of our comics that showed the kind of characters who could people the show and the kinds of stories we could tell. We not only had a new and fascinating interpretation of Luthor, but many characters that Hollywood was unaware of, like Morgan Edge, a seriously bad guy, but a complex and charismatic one. And then there was Cat [Grant], who became Lois’ rival, both as a reporter and a vier for Clark’s affections. Tony Jonas was the #2 at Warner Bros. Television at the time and we had a meeting at ABC. I said to Tony, “You know, we could pitch them Superman.” Tony gaped in disbelief. “Do we even have the rights to pursue a show?” But I had investigated and knew that we had. Tony said, “You’re kidding.” [chuckles] And I said, “No, no, we really do.” And I told him what I was thinking of and he said, “That’s great. Let’s pitch it.” And we did pitch it and ABC loved it and what started as a bible called “Lois Lane’s Daily Planet” became Lois & Clark[: The New Adventures of Superman]. Warner Bros. brought on Deborah Joy Levine as the showrunner, and in the beginning, when everything was new, we had some respect as the people who had conceptualized the show. But as time went on, I think the traditional prejudices against comics and comic-book people came into play and it became, [mockingly] “Oh, we know television, you know comics. We’ll run with the show.” Where once there had been a back and forth, we began to lose our input. Deborah didn’t last that long on the show herself, but when we think of the different showrunners on Lois & Clark, she was the one who seemed to understand the characters best.

Death and Resurrection The Death of Superman generated big bucks and media exposure for DC in 1992, but before long, the Man of Steel was back in comics and on live-action television in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman (1993–1997). (below) A signed still of Lois & Clark stars Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher, courtesy of Heritage. TM & © DC Comics. © 1994 Warner Bros.

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MOVING ON GREENBERGER: Fair enough. So as the ’90s are rolling along and we move into the new era, there’s the AOL-Time merger which we talked about. But at what point were you really starting to think it might be time to move on? KAHN: I can’t remember the year, Bobby, but at some point, perhaps around 2000, I had a revealing experience. I loved DC Comics, I loved the medium and the people I was working with. It was, I always felt, the best job in the galaxy. But one day, a search firm got in touch with me and said that they wanted to suggest me as the second-in-command at Christie’s. I was like, “What?” [laughs] It just seemed so out of left field. I have a passionate interest in art, but that certainly wasn’t my career. My career was in comics and not in so-called serious art.” I said, “I’m very honored that you thought of me, but I can’t quite understand why you did.” And the search firm said, “Well, Christie’s is looking for an out-of-the-box person.” I said, “That I am. [laughs] I’m probably overqualified for the job description.” I was surprised by how excited I was about this possibility and I started to think about what Christie’s could do. It had a huge anniversary coming up, the anniversary of its founding in 1762, and I was thinking of ways to celebrate that, rebranding Christie’s by going into the past while looking into the future. I had some wonderful interviews that fed my excitement. But then they decided that they didn’t want an out-of-the-box person. They really wanted a COO.

Comics’ Coolest Office Jenette in her DC digs in a 2002 photograph for her book In Your Space: Personalizing Your Home and Office (Abbeville Press, 2002). We kept the trim marks so that you can see more of her wonderful workspace! Photo courtesy of Jenette Kahn.

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And, of course, that is not the person I am. I found I was crushed, and that was my first real sign. I realized then that as much as I loved DC, I wasn’t challenged any more. What had excited me so much about Christie’s, apart from the fact that it played into one of my passions, was the thrill of taking on a totally new arena and having the exhilaration, the excitement, the anxiety, and the pleasure of that. When I realized that, I also understood that maybe I had been at DC a little too long. GREENBERGER: The announcement of your departure came four days after your 26th anniversary with DC in 2002, and you left later that year. That was also the year your interior design book came out. KAHN: That was just a coincidence, but timing is like that. GREENBERGER: Yeah, it was just one of those years. Were you happy with doing that book? KAHN: It wasn’t my idea to write a book about design, nor actually to write a book at all. But Bob Abrams, the head of Abbeville Press, had come up to the house in the country I was renovating, and even though it was still a work in progress, he said, “You know, you should really write a book about your collections.” “It’s just one person’s point of view,” I said. “Who would be interested?” And Bob said, “I would be interested. I would publish that book.” I never really took him seriously but from time to time, I would bump into Bob and he’d say, “Where’s the book? Where’s the book?” So I finally said, “I guess I need a contract and a deadline. Otherwise, there will never be a book.” So Bob said, “Okay, I’ll do that,” and he did.

WILDSTORM JOINS DC GREENBERGER: A couple years after all of this, you had to have been instrumental in DC’s decision to purchase WildStorm. Do you remember what the appeal was at the time? KAHN: I signed off on buying WildStorm, but this was very much Paul’s baby. Paul felt it would add a whole new group of characters to our lineup, a new library, essentially. WildStorm had a somewhat different style from ours and an audience we could bring to DC, too. I have to give Paul total credit for the WildStorm purchase. He suggested it, pursued it, and hammered out all the terms of the deal. WildStorm came into the fold not only because of Paul’s desire but because he made it work.

I had a responsive editor and was writing away when she accepted another job in publishing. The book had morphed considerably since Bob first suggested it, so I called him up and said, “This is quite a different book from what you signed on for, so if you don’t want to publish it, I’d completely understand. But no matter what you decide, I want to thank you, because just the process of writing these chapters has been such a learning experience for me. It’s been a journey of discovery and I understand the creative process far better because I’ve had to articulate it.” Bob said, “Well, send me the chapters. Let me read them and I’ll see.” So Bob read the chapters, invited me to lunch, and told me that he’d still publish the book. In the end, the book wasn’t about my collections, but a memoir of my fitful understanding of design, all my countless decisions and revisions, my numerous mistakes, and the lessons I learned from them. I’m still enormously grateful to Bob for asking me to write it.

LOOKING BACK AND AHEAD GREENBERGER: Cool. Now here you are at DC, packing up what has to be one of most eclectic offices a comics publisher has ever had [Jenette chuckles], and you’re saying your farewells. You know, in looking back, are there things you wanted to do that you regret not being able to accomplish? KAHN: Ahh, I don’t have regrets, Bobby. My experience at DC was an incredible one. I just felt privileged to be there. Originally, I planned to stay for a full year after announcing I was stepping down, but Paul was my successor and I felt that my presence made the transition harder. I thought it would be better for the staff and better for Paul if I gave him some space, so I moved next door to another Warner Bros. building and let Paul begin to leave his own considerable imprint on DC. GREENBERGER: Mm-mm, that’s fair. Okay, so looking back on your 26 years at DC Comics, what are the couple of things you immediately think of? What are those proud moments that just always come up? KAHN: Well, one of the proudest was ensuring that creators were guaranteed rights that they should have had but didn’t. Another was having championed and succeeded in the direct-sales market. Then there were so many, many groundbreaking titles that we published that I’m proud of: Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Arkham Asylum, Killing Joke, Preacher, Sandman, Death, Fables, the list goes on and on. And I’m proud, too, of the things we did within our traditional titles, things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Death of Superman, the reboot of Wonder Woman, the diverse characters we introduced, the issues we tackled … and there’s the Wonder Woman Foundation, too. [Editor’s note: Learn the story of the Wonder Woman Foundation in this issue! See page 48.] GREENBERGER: Once you left DC—between DC and Double Nickel, your current company—were there things you were doing that I’m unaware of? KAHN: Well, between DC and Double Nickel, I was really trying to think of what I’d do next and how to make that happen and that’s what really became Double Nickel. GREENBERGER: For those unfamiliar, why don’t you talk about Double Nickel and what you’re doing there? KAHN: Double Nickel, or Double Nickel Entertainment, is a New York-based production company that I formed with my wonderful partner Adam Richman,

who had been in the business already. We have several movies to our credit including Gran Torino, which Clint Eastwood directed and starred in. The film resonated with audiences across generations, and of all Clint’s movies, it is his most successful. But even had it not been, we would still be enormously proud of it, because it’s a movie with important themes that truly touched people’s hearts. GREENBERGER: Nice. These days, do you keep in touch with people in the comics business? Do you look at the comics at all? KAHN: You know, I rarely look at the comics. Every once in a while, I take a sneak peak, but I’m so involved with Double Nickel that I don’t have the leisure, really, to read comics as I once did, when I couldn’t wait for the next issue to come out. But I have friendships with people, still, from DC whom I think the world of and I’m so glad to be in touch with them. And I feel that way about the MAD team, too. GREENBERGER: Cool. Are you at all aware of, or have you seen any of the press about, the DC reboot, the New 52? KAHN: I haven’t read any of the new titles, but I understand that they’re selling really well, that people are sampling them and buying them not just to collect but to read, and that some fans are even purchasing all [52] of the titles. It’s pretty great. GREENBERGER: Hope it works. KAHN: I hope it works, too. GREENBERGER: You’ve always been involved in various boards and charities and things. Are there non-Double Nickel things you’re involved in these days? KAHN: I’ve been on the board for of Exit Art for over 20 years. It’s one of the most respected artist spaces in the country and has a global reputation as a cutting-edge organization at the intersection of art and culture and social justice. I’m tremendously proud to be involved with Exit Art, as I am with Harlem Stage, a performance space in Harlem dedicated to nurturing and showcasing the works of artists of color in all the performing arts. I’m on the advisory board of the Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance Company. And I’m also on the board of Impact Repertory

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You Don’t Tug on Superman’s Cape… …and you don’t take Walt Kowalski’s classic car for a joyride! Bill Gerber, Jenette Kahn, and Adam Richman at the 2008 premiere of the Clint Eastwood vehicle, Gran Torino. (If you haven’t seen this powerful film, you must. Truly, it’s one of Eastwood’s best, and we’re proud of Ms. Kahn’s involvement through Double Nickel Entertainment.) Photo courtesy of and © 2012 Zimbio, Inc.

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JENETTE KAHN AND THE THREE-HOUR LUNCH by Mike Gold

Back in the mid-1970s, only a few short weeks before they invented water, I had helped found a youth social-service program called the National Runaway Switchboard. I’m very proud of that one, and I’m happy to say it’s still around. In addition to writing funding proposals and helping with the training of volunteers, it was my responsibility to get the word out about the program. I also fielded interviews from kid-friendly magazines such as Dynamite, published by Scholastic Press, and Smash, published by Xerox. Both were created by Jenette Kahn. Somehow one thing led to another and Jenette and I became quite friendly. When she was anointed DC Comics publisher in early 1976, I called to congratulate her as one comics fan to another. Of course, I had an ulterior motive: I had joined some of my friends in organizing the first Chicago Comicon and I was in charge of programming and other silly things. I thought it would be great if Jenette joined Stan Lee and Harvey Kurtzman as a guest of honor. She agreed, and that started off a series of lengthy telephone conversations. I had already respected Jenette as an innovative publisher; I was now respecting her as a comics fan bent on taking the medium to the next level. Several months later she called to ask me if I was interested in working for Neal Adams’ Continuity Associates (Dick Giordano had just left the company) as business manager. I had met Neal at various conventions over the years and we had a serious conversation while at Stuart Gordon’s Organic Theater in Chicago, but the concept of being anybody’s business manager wasn’t something that would get me out of bed in the morning. However, I knew I was about to be, as the saying goes, “between radio shows,” and so I flew out to New York. As it turns out Neal was a no-show, but after giving me a tour of DC and meeting the staff (then a mere 35 people!), Jenette and I had a three-hour lunch at a swanky midtown Manhattan joint, where we discussed comics with enormous passion. Mind you, this was several years before Superman: The Movie and at least a decade before the term “graphic novel” became a hi-brow euphemism: passionately discussing comics with a woman in public simply was not done, and clearly some of our dining neighbors found all that kind of obnoxious. We couldn’t care less. I flew back to Chicago that evening, and two days later I received a phone call from Jenette. “I don’t want you to work for Neal,” she said. That was convenient. “I want you to work for me.” Hello? This was a whole different kettle of fish. Jenette wanted me to be DC’s first in-house PR and marketing department, expressly (but not exclusively) charged with boosting DC’s presence in the then-burgeoning direct-sales market. I’m proud to say that during my two-year tenure I quadrupled DC’s sales in that arena, and I had a great time doing so. I returned to Chicago where, after editing a home video magazine where I invited a zillion friends from the comics racket to write for us, I founded First Comics. Several years later I returned to DC at Dick Giordano’s invitation to become director of editorial development and group editor. Jenette and I resumed our frequent lunches and, while they rarely ran three hours and comics had become a lot more “legitimate,” our passion for the medium was not diminished in the least. I miss those lunches with Jenette. I saw her last year at the memorial service for Dick; my wife had died a month before and Jenette did much to console me and our daughter Adriane, as a good friend would. I’m proud to see her career in movies flourish. I knew her when she was at Scholastic, well before Harry Potter ruled that roost. She’s become an icon for businesswomen all over the world, and this just proves the world isn’t so screwed up after all. MIKE GOLD is editor-in-chief of www.ComicMix.com, writes a weekly political column at www.michaeldavisworld.com, does a weekly ass-kicking rock and blues show on demand at www.getthepointradio.com, and continues to be involved in nefarious conspiracies as he enters his antiquity.

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The Man and the First Lady Stan Lee and Jenette Kahn at a Temple University program in the late 1970s. Theatre, an organization that uses performing arts to empower kids and teach them leadership, teamwork, and social responsibility. And the kids are amazing. They perform for free in schools, prisons, nursing homes, churches, hospitals— anywhere that asks. It’s part of their public service. But just as amazing, they performed at the Oscars. Impact wrote and performed “Raise It Up” for the Warner Bros. movie August Rush, and the song was nominated for an Academy Award. The Academy flew the kids to L.A., many on a plane for the very first time, but it was only paying for a limited number of them. The Impact board couldn’t let that happen. They pooled their money so that everyone could go and the kids raised the roof and brought down the house at the Oscars. GREENBERGER: Very cool. KAHN: Wonderful, wonderful story. The kids are so lovely, so gracious and appreciative, and most of them go on to college. Jamal Joseph, who is one of the founders, doesn’t ask, “Are you going to college?” He asks, “Where are you going to college?” It’s a true testimony to the program that so many of the kids who graduate Impact come back after college to mentor the next generation. GREENBERGER: Nice. I did mean to ask—and forgive me, backtracking a little—have you and Diane Nelson, the current DC Comics president, spoken? KAHN: I’ve had dinner with her once, but that’s been the extent of our exchanges. GREENBERGER: Well, this wraps everything up. [Jenette laughs] I cannot thank you enough for this. KAHN: Oh, Bobby, I’m glad to do it and you’ve been so patient with my schedule, I can’t thank you enough. And you’ve been so prepared—you know more about my history than I do. GREENBERGER: Well, I wouldn’t be a good interviewer if I didn’t prepare! ROBERT GREENBERGER is a longtime comics historian and former staffer at DC Comics and Marvel Comics. A fulltime freelance writer and editor, his recent works have included The Essential Superman Encyclopedia (with Martin Pasko) and The Spider-Man Vault (with Peter David). He continues to write reviews for ComicMix.com and more about Bob can be found at BobGreenberger.com.

Max Romero

In 1977, as the United States was wrestling with a flagging economy and DC Comics was on the unavoidable verge of raising cover prices to 35 cents, DC publisher Jenette Kahn had an idea: Charge readers a dollar instead. Before the rise of the now-dominant direct market, news vendors were the most common place to buy a comic book. They were an all-important link to the reading—and paying—public, something publishers wanted to be sure was maintained and fostered. At the time, the average comic came in at about 32 pages total, with 17 of those being story pages. Comic books had a relatively low cover price, and when compared to the higher cost of other magazines on the newsstand it was becoming clear that DC had to do something to make sure retailers still saw the value in carrying its titles. Kahn was ready to make a splash herself. At 28 years old, and after cofounding three highly successful magazines for young people, she had been named publisher of DC Comics just the year before and seemed ready to bring innovation to a company that—some were arguing—needed it. “When I came to DC in 1976, one of the first things that struck me was how underpriced comics were in comparison to other comparable items whose purchase price had kept pace with inflation and changing times,” Kahn says. “This observation was echoed by retailers and wholesalers who said we were suffering staggering returns because comics—priced then at 30 cents—weren’t treated with the respect of magazines with their higher cover prices. “To preserve some semblance of profit margins over the years, comic-book companies kept trimming their page counts while holding fast to low prices, but that was a losing strategy for both reader and publisher,” she adds. “I had hoped that Dollar Comics would enable us to give value to our readers and a significant boost to our comic books’ price.” The Dollar Comics line was exactly what it sounds like, and more: comic books that offered readers an average of 64 pages of story for $1, while at the same time standing a full quarter-inch taller than the average comic (just to make sure they stood out on the newsstand racks). And while the actual page count would fluctuate over the years—some issues would boast as many as 80 pages— readers would generally get the equivalent of four comic books’ worth of stories for the price of three. As Kahn wrote in her July–Aug. 1977 “Publishorial” column (printed in every DC comic) warning readers of the inevitable rise in price to 35 cents an issue, it was “what Dollar Comics are all about. With a Dollar Comic you can count on getting four comics’ worth of new material for four quarters for a long time to come.” Kahn wasn’t far off. After launching the line in 1977, Dollar Comics went on to encompass familiar titles, special issues and annuals, and even two original series over the next six years. It all began with House of Mystery #251 and Superman Family #182, which hit the stands with March

Biggest Bargain in Comics Behind our title: A hodgepodge of Dollar Comics releases. TM & © DC Comics.

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1977 cover dates as enormous, statement-making, 80-page debuts. fiction has trouble keeping ahead of reality these days. I see Captain Kirk Those were swiftly followed with the equally hefty G.I. Combat #201 and with a cell phone, Captain Picard with an iPad, and they were supposed World’s Finest Comics #244 (both Apr. 1977), continuing the strategy of to be hundreds of years in the future; we’ve already moved beyond converting already existing anthology titles to the Dollar Comics line. them. Many of the more cerebral science-fiction notions aren’t quite Joined later that year with an issue of Superman Spectacular (Oct. 1977)— visual enough for comics. Of course, there is always a chance of an unnumbered title that was also under the “DC Special Series” someone coming up with something new and stunning that would banner reserved for one-shots and special issues—the new line was benefit from presentation in the comics format. One can hope…” gaining traction and soon expanded. The Batman Family was Even when Time Warp was being published, it turned added in May 1978 with issue #17, and was joined in June out to be a tough sell and was canceled after five issues. of that year by Adventure Comics #459 (Sept. 1978). Still, one notable thing about Time Warp and All-Out Eventually, the Dollar Comic line was doing well War was they were both published in the aftermath enough that DC was able to drop all advertising from of the DC Implosion. those titles while adding attractive wraparound covers. Before 1978, the Dollar Comics line—like many “At the outset, it seemed like a good idea,” other DC books—were buoyed by the DC Explosion, Kahn says. “Neal Adams (widely credited today an unprecedented expansion of titles at the company for giving DC its distinctive Bronze Age look) was that would encompass a flood of 57 new titles one of the industry’s art stars and the Dollar Comics released between 1975 and 1978. It turned out to covers were drawn by him. The comics boasted a be too much, too fast, and it was DC that ended up gratifying 80 pages of all new content, and while getting soaked. In 1978 the Explosion became an the stories weren’t anywhere near the level of DC’s Implosion thanks to a combination of still-slumping great work to come, they fell within the parameters sales, rising paper costs, and even a pair of blizzards jack c. harris of most of our output at the time.” in 1977 and 1978 that have been blamed for keeping Some of that output included two original product off the stands. anthology series created under the Dollar Comics umbrella and In all, DC ended up canceling 20 titles saddled with anemic sales debuting in 1979. One was a war comic called—appropriately enough— figures, including many new series. Another 11 titles were part of All-Out War, and has the distinction of introducing the world to Valoric, “planned” cancellations and disappeared from sales racks, along with better known as the Viking Commando. The other was a science- a handful of series that were in development but never published. fiction book with the suggestively futuristic title Time Warp. In spite of its relatively higher price, the Dollar Comics line was Time Warp featured everything someone would expect from a almost completely unscathed by the Implosion. The only victim, comic book steeped in science fiction, with aliens, dimension-bending strangely enough, was The Batman Family. Sort of. With DC trying lunatics, and the folly of man being played out on a global (often desperately to trim the fat from its now-bloated catalog, the decision nuclear) scale being the norm. It was a nod to DC’s last SF anthology, was made to give the ax to Detective Comics—the publisher’s longestStrange Adventures, and something former Time Warp associate editor running title and the inspiration for its very name. After others in the Jack C. Harris doubts could be pulled off successfully today. office fought to save Detective, it was instead merged into Batman “Science fiction helped build the foundation of comics, but that Family and became Detective Comics starring the Batman Family, a move structure has grown way beyond its beginnings,” Harris says. “Science that would keep the legendary title on the stands until 2011.

This is Your Life Cover art (back and front), courtesy of Heritage Comics Auctions (www.ha.com), of Ross Andru and Dick Giordano’s anniversary edition of Action, #500 (Oct. 1979). TM & © DC Comics.

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DOLLAR COMICS CHECKLIST The Dollar Comics line spanned almost every genre in its six years of publication, including superhero comics, war anthologies, horror, and science fiction and fantasy. Between December 1977 and 1983, you might have been able to find these titles at the newsstand:

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Action Comics #500 Adventure Comics #459–466 All-Out War #1–6 All-Star Squadron Annual #1–2 Batman Annual #8 Batman Family #17–20

• DC Comics Presents Annual #1–2 • DC Special Series #1, 5, 9, 11, 13, 15–17, 20–22 • Detective Comics #481–495 • The Flash #300 • G.I. Combat #201–259 • Green Lantern #150 • House of Mystery #251–259 • Justice League of America Annual #1 • Legion of Super-Heroes #294 • Legion of Super-Heroes Annual #1–2 • New Teen Titans Annual #1–2

(Detective Comics has since been rebooted and restarted at #1 in 2011 as part of DC’s New 52 initiative.) But Dollar Comics still had to pay a price, and page counts dropped while ads again found their way into the books. The line continued to show a surprising resilience, however, and after taking time to recover, the titles managed to publish ad-free again in 1980. Cancellations, however, were on the horizon. “Time Warp was kind of a salve on the wound of the Implosion,” Harris says. “We were really struggling to find a format that was both affordable (to produce and to buy) and popular. Time Warp wasn’t one of them. When it came to begin work on the sixth issue, the sales reports on the first one had come in and they weren’t strong enough to justify continued publication.” “Like everything, the people who liked it raved about it,” Harris adds. “The people who didn’t either ignored it or complained about it. Unfortunately, there weren’t enough of the people who liked it. Creators loved it a whole lot more than the readers.” Still, Harris says he has warm memories of his days working with Time Warp, one of only two original Dollar Comics titles to be published—and neither of which haven’t been seen since. Two Time Warp stories were especially memorable for Harris, “both drawn, coincidentally, by Steve Ditko. The first one was in issue #3 (Feb. 1980), ‘On the Day of His Return,’ written by Dan Mishkin and Gary Cohn. It was their first sale and they were stunned it was drawn by Steve. It’s a whimsical tale and still stands up today. “The other wasn’t even in Time Warp, but if memory serves me, it was originally intended for inclusion (perhaps in #6),” Harris continues. “It was in inventory and finally appeared in Mystery in Space #111 (Oct. 1980). It was written by Mike W. Barr and was entitled ‘Once Upon A Time Machine.’ I remember I came up with the title during a plotting session with Mike. He loved it and wrote a wonderful little tale. When he turned the script in, I thought it would be fun if we edited all the captions into future tense. Mike loved that idea, too, but he thought that since I did so much work changing every caption’s tense, I ought to get partial writing credit. I have always been grateful to Mike for that gesture. Both of these stories were reprinted in The Steve Ditko Omnibus, vol. 1 (Sept. 2011).” Before long, though, the entire Dollar Comics line would follow the fate of Time Warp. Cancellations,

• The Saga of the Swamp Thing Annual #1 • Sgt. Rock Annual #2–3 • Superman Annual #9 • Superman Family #182–222 • Superman Spectacular (DC Special Series) • Superman III Movie Special #1 • Time Warp #1–5 • The Unexpected #189–195 • Warlord Annual #1–2 • World’s Finest Comics #244–282

New Talent Showcase Dollar Comics’ tables of contents sometimes featured illos by newcomers like Pat Broderick and (seen here) fan favorites like Jim Starlin (from Batman Family #17, Apr.–May 1978). TM & © DC Comics.

replacements. and, in some cases, titles being scaled back down to the average price and page count, eventually led to Dollar Comics quietly fading away after six years on the racks. It was, Jenette Kahn says, only a matter of time: “Despite the opined wisdom of the comic-book marketplace, it didn’t matter what price our comics had. Whether 30 cents or a dollar, the returns were all the same, and we were printing four comics to sell one. These economics inevitably doomed Dollar Comics and it wasn’t until we’d grown the direct market and could print a title to order that we were able to price a comic book at a dollar and make a huge success of it.” MAX ROMERO is a fulltime freelance writer based in Austin, Texas. He can be found online at GreatCaesarsPost.com.

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John Wells

One of the great talking points in the comics press of the early 1980s was the fact that comic books aimed at younger children were rapidly fading away. The overall content of superhero comics was skewing toward teenagers and adults, while kid-friendly titles like Fawcett’s Dennis the Menace, Whitman’s Walt Disney’s Comics & Stories, and Looney Tunes were simply going away. “People don’t suddenly pick up comics,” DC Comics editor Nicola Cuti observed in Amazing Heroes #39 (January 15, 1984). “They’ve been reading comics all along, ever since they were kids. It’s a habit that goes from one step to the next. But now there are no comics around for children and we’re going to find ourselves without an audience in about 20 years if we don’t start very early with children.” The 1982 collapse of Harvey Comics (home of Casper the Friendly Ghost and Richie Rich) became the flashpoint that forced the two major superhero publishers to take action and explore entry-level comics of their own. Failing in a bid to acquire Casper and company, Marvel Comics instead hired some of Harvey’s talent to create the nucleus of a children’s imprint dubbed Star Comics. As news of its rival’s plans spread through the industry, DC recognized the need for a kids line of its own. DC’s initial plan of publishing comics featuring Warner Bros.’ Bugs Bunny and his Looney Tunes brethren was stymied by Whitman still holding the license. In 1979, DC had begun publishing reprint-packed digest comics with the hope of capitalizing on the diverse clientele that frequented checkout lanes. Belatedly, the company decided to test the market for kid humor comics, rolling out issues of The Best of DC spotlighting Sugar and Spike (toddlers who communicated in baby-talk) and Funny Stuff (featuring funny animal tales from the 1950s). A report in The Comic Reader #215 (Dec. 1983) revealed that those editions sold well “and actually outsell the Superman issues of that digest.”

Look Who’s Talking! You’d almost think that Sugar—one half of Shelly Mayer’s “talking” baby duo Sugar and Spike—was summing up DC’s kidscomic experiment of the early 1980s in this unused back cover to Best of DC Digest #47 (Apr. 1984). Original art scan courtesy of Heritage Comics Auctions (www.ha.com). TM & © DC Comics.

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powers! Rangers The Archie–like super-team called, alternately, “powers!,” “the Misfits,” and “the Oddballs.” Created by Roy Thomas and Stan Goldberg. TM & © DC Comics.

Move Over, Groo Sorcerer’s apprentice Blunder and barbarian buddy Thudd, from the Jim Engel/John Costanza team. TM & © DC Comics.

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Encouraged, DC announced in Amazing Heroes #39 that a standardsized Sugar and Spike comic would serve as the flagship title of its new children’s humor line. Originally published from 1956 to 1971, Sugar and Spike had been one of DC’s most critically beloved titles and translated stories remained popular in other countries. The strip’s legendary creator, Sheldon Mayer, began producing new Sugar and Spike episodes for those overseas shelly mayer markets in the early 1980s. This material—augmented by reprints— would appear in the new title. Early samplings of the new S&S tales appeared in 1982 and 1983’s Best of DC #29 and 41. Nicola Cuti, who was already editing the digests, was tapped for the ongoing Sugar and Spike comic, too, but insisted in Amazing Heroes #39 that “you don’t really edit Shelly Mayer. You just let him do what he wants and it all comes out great. So he’ll do what he wants and I’ll just be acting as his liaison [with DC].” In a “Meanwhile…” column in several Aug. 1984–dated titles (including Green Lantern #179), DC vice president-executive director Dick Giordano tentatively announced Sugar and Spike #1 as appearing “sometime this fall or early winter.” It would be joined, he continued, with a new Christmas one-shot featuring the Funny Stuff characters to be produced by Jim Engel, Chuck Fiala, and Mike Tiefenbacher. The balance of the kids line, Giordano continued, would launch in 1985 and comprise a pair of Roy Thomas co-creations and a new feature conceived by John Costanza. “Jenette Kahn let it be known that she wanted a teen superhero done in an ‘Archie’–type style,” Roy Thomas explained in Alter Ego #100 (Mar. 2011). “So [veteran humor cartoonist Stan Goldberg] and I made up this group called ‘the Oddballs,’ which she loved and DC paid us a bit of money to develop as ‘the Misfits’—or was it the other way around?” By the time Giordano mentioned the series in his column, Gary Friedrich had been attached to the comic as its scripter and the series was identified as powers! Roy Thomas noted in Alter Ego #18 (Oct. 2002) that Al Gordon inked the first issue. Describing the quartet as “accidental elementals,” Thomas identified the members as “Thermo (fire: he started out as ‘Pyro’), Hydro-Teen, Eartha, and Airhead. The villain was the Silver Skater.”

permission, I worked ‘Marvel style’ with Costanza, giving him a plot, then dialoguing over his pencils (not sure if it was ever inked), before that fell apart. I recall having a three-issue ‘play or pay’ agreement with DC, but, of course, was stiffed on the other two issues.” Ultimately, for reasons virtually no one recalls, DC quickly got cold feet on the project even as Marvel’s Star Comics rolled out in 1985. Personal matters forced Stan Goldberg to drop out of powers!, while Thudd and Blunder and the Costanza feature, as noted, were stalled during first-issue pencils. The Funny Stuff Stocking Stuffer made it into print in late 1984, albeit in rewritten form. Sugar and Spike appeared in two more issues of Best of DC in 1985 (#65 and 68), but the content was entirely reprint, the new stories being held back for an ongoing revival that was never to be. By the time a DC children’s line finally emerged, it was 1990 and it finally featured the Looney Tunes characters that DC had wanted in the first place. Over the next few years, the kids imprint (which was formally branded as “Johnny DC” in 2004) would grow to encompass a multitude of old and new features born in animation as well as adaptations of nearly every modern-day DC animated series. Its abortive predecessor is barely remembered, even by the people involved in its development. The only pieces of artwork known to exist are a Next up, as detailed in The Comic Reader promotional image of Thudd #218 (June 1984), was “Thudd and and Blunder seen in The Blunder, by Jim Engel and John Costanza. Comics Buyer’s Guide #550 Co-created with Roy Thomas, Jim will jim engel (June 1, 1984) and a group script and John will draw the adventures shot of the Oddballs in Alter of a hapless apprentice to an evil sorcerer (Blunder) and his unlikely crony, a barbarian named Ego #18. Along with the scattered references quoted Thudd.” Engel adds in a 2011 email that “my villain in above, they’re the only fragments of the 1985 DC that book was called Wretchwolf the Wrotten.” And finally, there was Costanza’s unnamed kids line that are left. project, which Giordano described as featuring “a JOHN WELLS, the so-called Mark loveable bunch of kids whose funny adventures Waid of Earth-Two, is a comics begin as their computer-controlled spaceship blasts historian specializing in DC Comics. off from their treehouse.” In a 2011 email, Costanza He’s written for a variety of notes that “the late Nelson Bridwell wrote the one publications over the past quarterand only script from my story breakdown. It only century ranging from The Comics Buyer’s Guide to Alter Ego. John went to the pencil stage.” also assisted with Paul Levitz’s 75 Likewise, Jim Engel confirms that “there was a Years of DC Comics: The Art of first issue of Thudd and Blunder done. With Roy’s Modern Mythmaking. Jenette Kahn Issue

How Could the Syndicates Resist This Lovable Pair? Did you know that DC tried to sell Shelly Mayer’s Sugar and Spike as a syndicated newspaper strip? This sample, ca. 1979–early 1980s, was one of three DC concepts unsuccessfully pitched to papers during the day; the others were Jonah Hex (see BI #12) and Plastic Man (which we’ll cover in #59). Art scan courtesy of Heritage. TM & © DC Comics.

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Andy Mangels

Iconographic Makeover Legendary designer Milton Glaser’s “WW” insignia was incorporated into this sleek new logo by letterer supreme Todd Klein in 1981. Courtesy of Andy Mangels. TM & © DC Comics.

The planet’s most famous superheroine has been closely tied to many ideals since her inception. A golden eagle had adorned Wonder Woman’s chest since her debut in All Star Comics #8 (Dec. 1941), and her star-spangled costume was known worldwide thanks to comics, licensing, a popular TV series, and animated appearances on Super Friends. Wonder Woman’s costume had gone through a few minor redesigns over the decades—and she had forsaken her traditional look entirely for a few years—but a major change was about to hit the Amazing Amazon for her 40th birthday in 1982. Her iconic emblem was going to be replaced by a new, clearly licensable logo, and at the same time, be used as the symbol for a new foundation dedicated to recognizing important women of the 20th century! The new Wonder Woman costume design appeared first in press materials sent out by DC to comics fanzines such as The Comics Reader and Amazing Heroes (July 1981). A piece of Style Guide art came with the information, with penciler Jose Delbo and inker Dick Giordano illustrating what the new costume’s bodice would look like in action. At the time, DC was clear that its purposes were to create an emblem for Wonder Woman that would be a strong licensing component in the same style as the Superman “S” shield and the Batman oval chest symbol. The press info also revealed that the costume change would take place in a 16-page insert comic within DC Comics Presents #41, which would also showcase the new creative team of writer Roy Thomas, penciler Gene Colan (recently defected from Marvel), and inker Romeo Tanghal, under editor Len Wein.

The costume would appear in the Amazing Amazon’s own title beginning with Wonder Woman #288. The newly designed bodice was originally going to be given to Wonder Woman as part of a “battle trophy or promotion,” according to an article in Comics Feature #12/13 (Sept.–Oct. 1981). On the bodice and the book’s logo was a stylized “double W” symbol, which still slightly resembled an eagle, but was also clearly an icon. Letterer Todd Klein recalled on his online blog (http://kleinletters.com) that Milton Glaser designed the new icon (though whether he personally designed it or if it was someone in his large studio is in question). Klein himself then redesigned the Wonder Woman comic-book logo, incorporating the Glaser symbol. “I tried to emulate the classic simplicity of the emblem with classic block letters running out from the two W[’]s, and added a wing tip to the N to help tie it together,” Klein wrote. Because this new logo obscured part of the new icon design, a secondary logo was designed for licensing— probably by Glaser’s studio—and used as part of DC’s new Style Guide and on later issues of the comic. Echoing comments from Gene Colan (in an interview in BACK ISSUE #41), past DC editor and writer Andrew Helfer recalls that Glaser’s redesign of the logo was a difficulty for artists to utilize initially, especially “how difficult it was to make the damn thing wrap around the character’s ‘bodice.’ I recall it was delivered ‘flat’ by Glaser—just another bullet-style logo to him—and the stacked Ws were uniformly hated by artists and editors, none of whom could figure out how it worked (look at some of the early appearances to see the results).” Helfer recalls today that it may have been “Ernie Colón, working with Joe Orlando, [who] finally figured out how it worked.”

ANNOUNCING THE FOUNDATION By October 1981, the comics press was reporting even more interesting news: As part of Wonder Woman’s 40th anniversary year, DC had hired Karen Lippert, the former director of special projects at Ms. Magazine, to coordinate a series of celebratory activities. Planned were a film festival, a TV special, and the debut of the Wonder Woman Foundation. The nonprofit organization, as press materials promised, was created, “expressly to advance principles of equality for women in American society.”

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In press materials, DC president and publisher Jenette Kahn was quoted as saying, “For forty years, Wonder Woman has been a symbol of strength without violence and intelligence turned to wisdom; she has been a champion of peace, justice, and human kindness … Wonder Woman has always been an inspiration to girls and women … an example of sisterhood, self-reliance, self-respect, courage and justice for all women to follow. Because women are rediscovering these truths today, we developed the idea for a national women’s foundation dedicated to the principles she has always championed … a public foundation—the Wonder Woman Foundation could make a significant contribution.” In a recent email exchange, Kahn comments about the origins of the Foundation, and how she asked noted feminist Gloria Steinem to be involved: “Gloria was a lifelong Wonder Woman fan. Growing up in East Toledo, Ohio, she thought there was no way out short of becoming a Las Vegas showgirl. But when she was seven, Wonder Woman was published. Reading the adventures of a woman who was beautiful, wise, and brave, an independent, compassionate woman who was romantically linked to men but sought to empower other women, Gloria saw that there was another path. When the first issue of Ms. Magazine was published, Gloria honored her childhood heroine by placing Wonder Woman on the cover, stopping crime with one hand, dispensing food to the hungry with the other.” Kahn continues, “It is to Gloria that I owe two of the most significant hallmarks of the Wonder Woman Foundation. Over lunch, she suggested that since it was Wonder Woman’s 40th anniversary, we honor women who were 40 and over. At that time, women over 40 were often discounted and disparaged as middle-aged. Gloria’s suggestion enabled us to challenge that prejudice by showcasing women who

were making contributions well into their 80s. Her other suggestion was just as imaginative. Rather than honor women in traditional fields like business, medicine, sports, and art, why not recognize them for embodying Wonder Woman’s characteristics? We came up with five categories that defined Wonder Woman and our future honorees: Women Taking Risks, Women Pursuing Truth, Women Working Creatively, Women Striving for Equality and Peace, and Women Helping Other Women.” The executive director of the new Wonder Woman Foundation was Koryne Horbal, a former delegate on “the Status of women” to the United Nations. Horbal immediately began creating formal guidelines for the first of the planned annual Wonder Woman Awards, which were to be given to women over 40 years of age at a gala event that promised to be “an evening of special tribute to women of achievement and of encouragement to women of potential.” The Honorees would be “given a Wonder Woman citation and actual financial grants will be awarded to women of 40 and over who have demonstrated both need and realizable promise.” The “needs” element was important, as monetary grants would be $7,500 per recipient! Horbal also began recruiting members for both the Foundation’s 24-member board and the advisory committee. They were to be, as press materials promised, a “panel of women and men accomplished in the fields of social and community service.” Among those chosen were women prominent in the arts, such as singer Judy Collins and actresses Linda Lavin and Jean Stapleton, and others who were active in many social agendas, ranging from education to sports. They crossed the boards from religious and ethnic backgrounds, and even included at least one prominent lesbian, Dr. Donna E. Shalala. Of the 24 chosen, nine were male, and one had close ties to the topic— lawyer Donald Richard Marston was the son of Wonder Woman’s creator, William Moulton Marston (a.k.a. “Charles Moulton”) and Olive Byrne (a.k.a. “Olive Richard”), the woman who shared a home and family with Marston and his wife. The Wonder Woman Foundation was officially announced at a press conference in New York City on October 6th, 1981. Attending were Kahn and seven others of the board members: Shalala, Collins, Stapleton, and members Coy Eklund, LaDonna Harris, Eleanor Riger, and William Sarnoff (see sidebar). The Foundation was given $100,000

THE WONDER WOMAN FOUNDATION BOARD OF DIRECTORS The initial 24-member Board of Directors (circa 1981) was as follows: • Koryne Horbal, Executive Director (former delegate to the United Nations) • Peter A. Bonnani (VP and Group Publisher of Woman’s Day Magazine) • David Brown (Zanuck/Brown Inc. production company) • Judy Collins (singer, author, director) • Coy Eklund (President and CEO of Equitable Life Insurance) • Arthur Fleming (chairman of US Committee on Civil Rights and Deputy Chairman of White House Conference on Aging) • Emanel Gerard (Warner Communications, Inc. Office of the President) • LaDonna Harris (Executive Director & President of Americans for Indian Opportunity) • Andrew Heiskell (Chairman of NY Public Library)

• Jenette Kahn (DC Comics, Inc. President and Publisher) • Joan B. Kennedy • Linda Lavin (stage and television actress, star of Alice) • Eleanor Holmes Norton (former chair of NYC Commission on Human Rights) • Eleanor Riger (ABC Network sports producer) • Geraldine Rhoads (Editor-in-Chief of Woman’s Day Magazine) • Jill Ruckleshaus (founder of National Women’s Political Caucus) • William Sarnoff (Chairman of Warner Publishing, Inc.) • Dr. Donna E. Shalala (President of Hunter College, NY) • Donald R. Marston (lawyer and son of William Moulton Marston) • Roger R. Smith (Warner Communications, Inc. VP of Corporate Affairs)

• Jean Stapleton (stage and television actress, star of All in the Family) • Margery Tabankin (Executive Director of the Arco Foundation) • Donna de Varona (NBC Sports commentator) • Carmen Delgado Votaw (a US Principal Delegate and Executive Committee member of the InterAmerican Commission of Women) Later members of the Board of Directors included: • Amy L. Katz (Warner Communications, Inc. legal department) • Harriet Bart (Minnesota artist, WWF Regional panelist in 1982) • Carol Connolly (McLellan) (a St. Paul, Minnesota, Human Rights activist) • Sanderson Swan (a director of development for the WWF and New York’s Police Athletic League) • Wanda Jo Peltier

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Previewing the Princess Roy Thomas and Gene Colan’s new look and direction for the Amazing Amazon premiered in this 16-page insert published in DC Comics Presents #41 (Jan. 1982). (left) The Preview’s cover, and (right) an original art page signed by Colan. TM & © DC Comics.

in seed money to get started—with a promise of THE CHANGES HIT THE COMICS another $400,000 over the following two years—from Two days after the New York press conference, on DC Comics’ parent company, Warner Communications, October 8, 1981, DC Comics Presents #41 (Jan. 1982) Inc. The Equitable Life Insurance Society and hotelier hit the newsstands. In the 16-page story insert, “A Bold John B. Coleman & Company also contributed to New Direction for … Wonder Woman,” Roy Thomas finance the group’s events. An Associated Press story and Gene Colan told a tale in which armed spies quoted Stapleton as saying at the event that “the attempting to gain secrets from Colonel Steve Foundation promotes the idea of women Trevor are defeated by Wonder Woman. as people of achievement. The name In the crowd are two women, Liz and [Wonder Woman] has a lot of utility; Dr. Felton, and a Mr. Winthrop, who it spells something right away.” have been scouring the city for days At the press conference, the trying to find the heroine. They Foundation announced a slate of have started the Wonder Woman potential events, to include: “A Foundation, a nonprofit group to Celebration of Women in Film,” to promote equality for women, and be co-sponsored by the Women’s they want not only the Amazon’s Projects arm of the American Film permission to use her name, but Institute and the Los Angeles Women ask her to use a new “charming top” in Film Foundation; a “Salute to with their logo on it. “The ‘W’ Wonder Woman” exhibit at the stands for ‘Women,’ you know,” Smithsonian Museum in Washington, roy thomas says Dr. Felton. D.C.; a Women’s Leadership and Later, Wonder Woman flies to History Conference to be sponsored Paradise Island, where she defeats with the Girl Scouts of America; a sports awards Mercury and Hercules, and discusses the new symbol program sponsored with the Girls Clubs of America; with her mother, Queen Hippolyta. The queen and a twist on the comics’ Amazon Olympics with a urges her to “wear the new halter for a time, at national sporting event to be called “The Wonder least, for the good it will do,” and Wonder Woman Woman Foundation Decathlon Games.” makes the switch. The story was continued in

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Wonder Woman #288 (Feb. 1982), on sale November 6th. Featuring the book’s new logo, the story had a brief recap of the preview tale, with Liz again entreating her that if she wears the top, “our new ‘Wonder Woman Foundation’ will be able to get financial backing to promote equality for women everywhere!” According to Roy Thomas, “it seems to me that the Wonder Woman Foundation and new costume were both already in place when I came [to DC], as part of my first assignment. I never heard of one separate from the other.” Thomas and Colan were provided with the new design, and they began “going to work to figure out what the story would be that would introduce it.” As for the specific characters in the comic from the Wonder Woman Foundation, Thomas wasn’t given the names of anyone working for the real group, so Liz, Dr. Felton, and Mr. Winthrop were “cyphers to me. I just wanted to get the story over with. I think it worked fairly well … but DC never asked me to do anything more with the Wonder Woman Foundation, so I didn’t.” Indeed, the Wonder Woman Foundation was never mentioned in the comics again, until George Pérez briefly reintroduced the concept as part of DC’s post–Crisis continuity in Wonder Woman vol. 2 #8 (Sept. 1987). It has been mentioned only a few times since then, most notably by Phil Jimenez in his final issue, #188 (Mar. 2003). Aforementioned DC editor and writer Andrew Helfer was also on hand with the beginnings of the organization; in fact, his job at DC was due to the group. “I first came to DC based on a typewritten note I discovered taped to a wall in the andy helfer NYU Graduate School of Journalism office,” says Helfer today. “The note was looking for someone to spend the summer promoting Wonder Woman on her 40th anniversary. On a whim, I typed out a letter (on a manual typewriter) sketching out a list of possibilities, including an award ceremony for women who’d done remarkable, perhaps Wonder Woman–like things (without aid of magic lassos or invisible planes). I received a call from Jenette Kahn’s office days later, Wonder Woman Foundation. Noted underground and before I knew it, was being offered a summer cartoonist and artist Lee Marrs was also somehow job by the publisher. The moment I’d arrived, involved, but her specific involvement is unknown. however, I was given an initial assignment Helfer recalls that “there was little-to-no participation decathlon to promote Batman on his 40th anniversary from anyone else of DC in the project. Although the by assisting Jack C. Harris, a DC editor, in a New Foundation had its offices smack-dab-in-the-middle of the editorial hallway, the Foundation employees— York Comicon promotion.” Shortly after, Helfer was offered a fulltime job with not comic fans—had little interaction with any of the DC assisting Joe Orlando in the special projects editors or staff, who, needless to say, all were [comic department, “That, officially at least, was where my fans]. In the office, the Foundation was perceived as Wonder Woman assignment ended. But Koryne one of Jenette’s ‘Pet Projects,’ so mostly—with the Horbal, Karen Lippert, and another Foundation exception of Neal, whose design skills would be employee, Gillian Fuller, would from time to time called to task—the editors were included out of the discuss the Foundation with me. I don’t know if mix. It should be mentioned that Wonder Woman they’d read my letter or not, and nothing ‘official’ was the cover subject of the first issue of Ms. came of it, but they seemed interested in what I Magazine. In addition to a huge blow-up of the cover being featured on the [DC] office wall, it was used had to say.” In mid-1982, Neal Pozner was named design by Jenette to spotlight Wonder Woman’s relevance director at DC Comics. Among his duties were to the women’s movement, and served as an entree designing items for not only licensed material to DC’s contact with Gloria Steinem, Jenette’s friend and Atari-related projects, but also any items for the and a Foundation supporter.”

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DC’s Real Wonder Woman Jenette Kahn caricature by Dave Manak, produced for the Dec. 1984 edition of DC Releases. Courtesy of Andy Mangels. TM & © DC Comics.

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THE 1982 WONDER WOMAN FOUNDATION AWARDS The first annual Wonder Woman Foundation Awards luncheon was held on November 22nd, 1982 at New York’s Ritz-Carlton Hotel. The event included awards for 18 women, aged 41 to 70. There had been a reported 1,300 applicants/nominations for the debut year. The recipients and their categories were:

WOMEN STRIVING FOR EQUALITY AND PEACE • Anita Bracy Brooks (an African-American artist and professor from Minneapolis, Minnesota) • Jane Roberts Chapman (an author and women’s rights activist from Chevy Chase, Maryland) • Mim Kelber (a New York journalist and government advisor)

WOMEN PURSUING TRUTH • Karen Ferguson (director of the Washington, DC, Pension Rights Center) • Christine Wells (an author about sports medicine for women, from Tempe, Arizona, who used the grant to buy a computer to write on)

WOMEN TAKING RISKS • Mae Bertha Carter (59, an African-American Head Start teacher and civil rights activist from Drew, Mississippi) • Virginia Currey (a member of the Texas State School Board crusading for non-sexist, non-racist textbooks) • Ada E. Deer (a presidentially acknowledged activist member of the Menominee tribe in northern Wisconsin) • Eula Hall (director of an Craynor, Kentucky, health care center in the Appalachians)

WOMEN CREATING NEW REALITIES • Harriett Bell (a handicapped-rights activist from New York, who was crippled from polio and who helped write one of the earliest Patients’ Bill of Rights) • Rosetta Reitz (New York author and scholar of female jazz musicians) • Rita Webb Smith (an African-American counselor for addicts at Harlem Hospital Center in New York) • Anne Burlak Timpson (70, a textile-mill union organizer from Boston) • Robin Morgan (a women’s movement poet, author, and activist from New York)

1982 YEAR ONE AWARDS The aforementioned exhibit at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History took place beginning on March 15, 1982, coincidentally the start of Women’s History Week. While the exhibit was a mere two display cases, it contained numerous comic-book memorabilia, as well as one of the costumes from Lynda Carter’s 1975–1979 Wonder Woman TV series. The first known event sponsored by the Wonder Woman Foundation was a conference held on October 8–11, 1982 at the Edith Macy Conference Center, New York. Chaired by Mary Logan Rothschild, the conference was titled “Discovering Ourselves: American Women, Past and Present,” and was sponsored by the Girl Scouts of America and the WWF. The first awards banquet was planned for November 1982. DC’s press materials said that “While citations for achievements will be in traditional categories such as public interest, entertainment and the arts, medicine and science, education and religion, sports, business, and community service … the special qualities and qualifications to be designated by the Board for each Wonder Woman award will reflect the characteristics of Wonder Woman.” Speaking at the first annual awards luncheon on November 22nd, 1982, Jenette Kahn said, “Wonder Woman, a fictional heroine, has been embraced by women of all ages as a symbol of compassion, honesty, courage, strength, and wisdom.” She added that the night’s award recipients were “creating role models of women who are mature and personally powerful.” Specifics ideals named for the 18 awards given the first year included the categories of Pursuing Truth, Taking Risks, Working Creatively, Striving for Equality and Peace, Helping Women, and Courage. All nominations had to come from someone outside the family of the nominee. 52 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

WOMEN HELPING WOMEN • Lupe Anguiano (an advocate for welfare recipients to find employment from San Antonio, Texas) • Pauline Cardenas (a abortion rights activist from McAllen, Texas) • Phyllis Old Dog Cross (52, a nurse and medical school activist for Native Americans from Rapid City, South Dakota) • Muriel Vaughn (a human rights activist from St. Paul, Minnesota)

In the recent email exchange, Kahn notes that “Warner Communications, now Time Warner, was our parent company, and we were tremendously fortunate in having its wholehearted support. Warner Communications’ financial backing enabled us not only to give out unrestricted grants to our awardees, but to bring each one and a guest to New York to be honored in person. The awards luncheons were tremendously moving. The ballrooms were always packed and when the women’s stories were told and they accepted their awards, there wasn’t a dry eye in the house.” Attendees at the event included Marlo Thomas, Joan Mondale, Gloria Steinem, Hugh Downs, Essence Magazine editor-in-chief Susan Taylor, and the head of the Ford Foundation, Franklin Thomas. In her book about civil rights activists, Silver Rights, author Constance Curry recalled that African-American award recipient Mae Bertha Carter felt that the Wonder Woman Foundation award was the highest honor she ever got in life. Nominated by pioneering activist Marian Wright Edelman, Carter had asked upon receiving her nomination, “What’s this Wonder Woman? I thought it was that lady that flies around on television.” But when Jean Stapleton presented the “Women Taking Risks” award to Carter, she said of her that she was “a woman who refuses to hide from danger and uncertainty … has a clear vision of right and wrong … and promotes harmony among all people as the goal of social change.” Today, Kahn recalls, “We were always deeply moved by how selfless these women were. The grants were unrestricted, so they could apply them any way they wanted, but I still remember the inquiry from Eula Hall who traversed the backwoods of Kentucky, bringing nursing care to people who otherwise had no access to medicine. Would it be possible, she tentatively asked, to use part of the grant to buy a pair of glasses and new tires for her truck?”

1983 YEAR TWO AWARDS On July 18th, 1983, the Wonder Woman Foundation co-sponsored a reception with the Congressional Caucus for Women’s Issues, NASA, and the Smithsonian, at the National Air and Space Museum. Although no awards were given, attendees were treated to “home movies” (of life in space) from the five astronauts from the Space Shuttle Challenger, which included Dr. Sally K. Ride, America’s first woman to travel into space. The event, at the Langley Theatre, attracted a crowd of over 500 people. Attending were the Challenger’s other crew: Capt. Robert L. Crippen, Capt. Frederick H. Hauck, Col. John M. Fabian, and civilian Dr. Norman E. Thagard. During the ceremony, Jenette Kahn presented each of the astronauts with a solid-gold medallion from the Wonder Woman Foundation; Dr. Ride, in turn, presented the Smithsonian with one of her spacesuits. Sometime in 1983, the Foundation did begin giving out the Wonder Woman Foundation Sports Award as well. One recipient, the Sarasota Girls Club of Sarasota, Florida, received the award for “Outstanding Athletic Programming for Girls.” Nominations for year two of the awards were accepted from early March 1983 to May 27th, 1983. For the second year of the awards, presented on November 14th, 1983, a new award category was announced: the “Woman of Courage Award.” The debut category was presented to African-American actress Cicely Tyson for her commitment to the portrayal of black women in American culture. The host for the evening, newsman John Chancellor, described all the recipients as “women who have the strength to fight, to dare, to laugh at fate, to live through injustice and triumph.” Presenters included Judy Collins, Marlo Thomas, Jean Stapleton, Lee Grant, Polly Bergen, Carol Jenkins, and astronaut Sally Ride. Seventeen awards were presented, but because one was to a pair of Western Shoshone sisters, there were 18 honorees. That year one of the awards was also presented to the only comics professional ever honored by the Foundation: Nicole Hollander, the creator of the self-syndicated Sylvia comic strip. Hollander says that she “had no idea that I was the only woman cartoonist to receive the award.” She was nominated for the honor by the director of the Cartoonist Guild in New York. “I remember that I was at Ragdale, the artist colony in Lake Forest, Illinois, doing a residency, when he started the process,” Hollander reveals. “I had to write an application and I had no idea how to do it. He coached me. I remember it was a shock to my system when he told me I had to brag about my accomplishments.” Hollander notes that she had really “almost no interest in Wonder Woman or any superheroes,” but says that she “learned to read so that I could read the Sunday comics. My parents wanted to read the paper in peace. I liked Henry, The Little nicole hollander King, and I loved The Phantom … the exception to my superhero ban. He was the first of my long love affair with crime solvers who protect the poor and desperate.” When Hollander attended the 1983 Foundation awards, she recalls “being awed by the amount of courage many of the awardees had shown in their lives. My acceptance remarks were very short. I thanked my grandmother for her toughness, and my mother for her incredible wit.” Other than the fears of a friend who accompanied Hollander—that she might give her lighthearted acceptance right after some of the women who had overcome huge

Super Sylvia Cartoonist Nicole Hollander puts her mark on caped crusaders in this 1987 Sylvia daily. © Nicole Hollander.

THE 1983 WONDER WOMAN FOUNDATION AWARDS Presented on November 14, 1983, the second annual Wonder Woman Foundation Awards luncheon saw 18 recipients of the awards receiving a total of $120,000. The ceremony was hosted by NBC new commentator John Chancellor at New York’s Harley Hotel. The 17 recipients (including a dual award) had been pulled from more than a thousand nominations. Recipients were: • Cicely Tyson “Woman of Courage Award” (stage and screen actress) • Donna Allen (a Washington, DC, journalist and author who pioneered work for women in electronic media) • Marie Balter (52, a mental-health advocate from Danvers, Massachusetts) • E. M. (Esther Masserman) Broner “for courage in changing custom and ceremony” (pioneering Jewish feminist and writer) • Shirley Christian (a Pulitzer Prize-winning Latin-American foreign correspondent from Miami, Florida) • Dr. Davida Coady (a doctor from El Cerrito, California, who aided third-world war victims) • Betty B. Comtom (a nurse practitioner active in changing rural medicine, from Cedar Grove, North Carolina) • Helen J. Cuercio (a legal secretary who worked to repeal unfair labor practices against women in Detroit, Michigan) • Mary Dann and Carrie Dann (Shoshone Indian sisters from Beowawe, Nevada, who were fighting for ancestral lands) • Antonia Glasse (one of the “Cornell Eleven” who sued to gain due tenure at Cornell University, from Ithaca, New York) • Nicole Hollander (creator of Sylvia comic strip, from Chicago) • Agnes Mary Mansour (a Lansing, Michigan, nun forced to resign for helping women obtain abortions) • Faith Ringgold (a New York City AfricanAmerican artist and activist) • Jeri Rasmussen (from Minneapolis, Minnesota, the founder of Friends of Planned Parenthood) • Anita Otilla Rodriguez (a teacher of ancient Mexican housebuilding craft from El Prado, New Mexico) • Audrey Taylor (the Freehold, New Jersey, project director for the Working Women’s Education Fund) • Phyllis Wallace (the New York founder of Let Incest Victims Emerge)

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obstacles—Hollander remembers mostly about the awards “the certificate, the check, and the incredible elegance of our stay. We were treated graciously. I certainly wasn’t used to that treatment, which is a good thing, because it never happened again.” And although Wonder Woman herself never made an appearance in the Sylvia strip, Hollander does feature several female superheroes who “visit ordinary people in their homes and tell them to stop reading trashy novels, and quit smoking, and not to break up with their girlfriends on Facebook.” Jenette Kahn recalls another honoree in 1983, saying that when Marie Balter was honored, “Marlo Thomas and Lee Grant were presenters. Marie was an unwanted child who was misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and shunted for over 20 years through the worst wards of mental institutions. But Marie was determined to get well, and when she did, she founded her own facility for the mentally ill and became an outspoken activist for mental-health reform. “Marie’s story was so compelling that Lee and Marlo optioned the rights and produced Nobody’s Child, a television movie for CBS that Marlo starred in and Lee directed. Marlo won an Emmy for her performance, Lee won a Directors Guild Award for her direction, the writers won a Writers Guild Award for the screenplay, and the mayor of Boston designated one day that year ‘Marie Balter Day.’

Famous Winners (top) Civil rights activist Rosa Parks (right) was a recipient of a 1984 Wonder Woman Foundation Award. Presenting the award was 1983 WWF winner Cicely Tyson. (bottom) The remarkable Clara Hale, who created Harlem’s Hale House to care for babies of drug-addicted mothers, was another 1984 winner. Wonder Woman TM & © DC Comics.

THE 1984 WONDER WOMAN FOUNDATION AWARDS The final year that the Wonder Woman Foundation Awards were given, on November 14, 1984 at New York’s Plaza Hotel. CBS news correspondent Bill Moyers was the master of ceremonies. Fifteen women received grants totalling $105,000, including: • Rosa L. Parks “Eleanor Roosevelt Woman of Courage Award” (71, prominent African-American activist from Detroit, Michigan) • Kathleen Barry (43, a Cambridge, Massachusetts, sociologist and founder of the International Feminist Network Against Female Sexual Slavery) • Clementine Barthold (63, a judge from Jeffersonville, Indiana, who worked with juvenile offenders) • Juana Maria Bordas (42, a Denver, Colorado, advocate for Hispanic women) • Ignatia Broker (65, a Native-American author and activist of the Ojibway tribe of Bemidji, Minnesota) • Clara Hale (79, the founder of Hale House in Harlem, a center for drug-addicted babies)

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• Jill Halverson (43, a Peace Corps worker and homeless advocate from Los Angeles) • Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston (50, a Santa Cruz, California, author of a book about life in a Japanese-American internment/relocation camp) • Meridel LeSeur (84, a Mendota, Minnesota, author blacklisted during the McCarthy era) • Josephine Lutz (63, a Madison, Wisconsin, researcher on osteoporosis) • Dr. Marion Moses (49, medical director for United Farm Workers, from Keene, California) • Barbara Reynolds (69, a Long Beach, California, peace activist who worked with Hiroshima survivors) • Ruth M. Rothstein (61, the president of Chicago’s Mount Sinai Hospital and Medical Center) • Sister Elaine Roulet (54, a New York activist crusading for women in prison to interact with their children) • Maria Gutierrez-Spencer (65, a crusader for equal education of Hispanic children, from Silver City, New Mexico)

Heroine of Merit (right) Girl Scouts display the Wonder Woman “Women Are History” merit badge, seen in closer detail below. Wonder Woman TM & © DC Comics.

“As with Marie’s story, the Wonder Woman Awards had a ripple effect,” Kahn continues. “There was tremendous press, not just in New York where the women were honored, but locally, in their hometowns and states. It validated their work, raised their profiles, and inspired countless other people, men and women alike, to make a difference in their communities. And for the women themselves, the grants provided resources that made their work a little easier, a little more effective, like Eula Hall’s tires for her truck.”

1984 YEAR THREE AWARDS The final year that the Wonder Woman Foundation Awards were given actually received the most public attention, largely due to one high-profile recipient. In November 1984, the awards were given to 15 women total, but none were as famous as Rosa Parks, the African-American activist whose refusal to sit in the back of a Montgomery, Alabama, public bus in 1955 sparked significant national debate over civil rights for black citizens. Parks’ award, the “Eleanor Roosevelt Woman of Courage Award,” was presented by actress Cicely Tyson, the previous year’s recipient of the honor. Photos of Parks and Tyson holding a lined box with the Wonder Woman logo appeared in Jet Magazine, and numerous magazines and newspapers reported on the story. At the event, CBS news correspondent Bill Moyers was the master of ceremonies, and he said of the winners, “They have dared to do more than was expected. They have gone down to dig for buried causes, brought them to the public arena and fought for them… They do not just illuminate, they alleviate. They don’t just say, ‘Hey, look!’ They say, ‘Let’s help!’” The evening’s theme was “Women Are History.” In a UPI article, Foundation executive director Koryne Horbal said that the theme was “a reflection of our educational concerns and the linking of women of all generations, the passing on of women’s history from the oldest to the newest. The women who receive the awards … broaden and deepen the concept of what it means to be female in the 1980s…. They are role models for the next generation, they are living history.… Most of all, they are proof that the individual can effect great change despite internal and external obstacles that may block her way.” Today, Kahn recalls how one of the recipients reacted, saying that there were “touchingly funny moments, too, like the instance Mother Hale was asked to speak. We were honoring her for fostering countless crack-addicted babies in Harlem. But when she came to the podium, she said, ‘I don’t have anything to say. I’ve been talking to babies so long, I’ve forgotten how to speak to adults.’”

Kahn remembers the impact and the dissolution of the Foundation: “With each year, the awards became more and more influential. We always hoped they would continue and that the Foundation would become a mainstay in our culture, but life intervened. In 1976, Warner Communications had acquired the cutting-edge games company Atari and Atari soon accounted for more than a third of its revenues. As a result, the disastrous video-game collapse of 1983 propelled Warner Communications into a tailspin, and the company, fighting for its life, could no longer underwrite the Wonder Woman Foundation. “It was with great sadness that we disbanded it, but in the three years of the Wonder Woman Foundation’s existence, it did a decade’s worth of good,” Kahn states. “The awards shone a light on and catalyzed the critical work of the 51 women we honored, each of whom was changing some portion of the world for the better. Most were seemingly ordinary women, but with empathy for others, with passion, grit, and surpassing dedication, they continually achieved extraordinary things. Their grace and strength set an example that humbled and inspired us all.” Although the Wonder Woman Foundation no longer exists— and remains until now an unfortunately obscure part of the comicbook world’s charitable history—it did plant seeds for the future. The political organization called the Women Officials’ Network Foundation of Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, has held a “Wonder Woman Celebration” through its 27th year, in 2011. In 2006, the author of this article founded the annual Wonder Woman Day on the last Sunday of October—retitled in 2011 to Women of Wonder Day—an event which has raised over $135,000 for Domestic Violence charities in Oregon, New Jersey, and Texas. Other Wonder Woman-themed events have been held in recent years to raise charitable funds and awareness as well, and a documentary titled Wonder Women! The Untold Story of American Superheroines had its world debut at the prestigious SXSW Festival in March 2012 in Austin, Texas. It seems that the Amazing Amazon’s legacy of heroism is far from losing its foundation.

THE GROUP DISBANDS—BUT THE MISSION GOES ON

All interviews were conducted in December 2011 and January 2012, and other quotes were taken from press releases and published sources. Artwork is courtesy the collection of Andy Mangels and Nicole Hollander.

The “Women Are History” campaign continued in conjunction with the Girl Scouts of America. A special merit badge was created for Girl Scouts, and was still being presented until at least 1985. It featured the phrase “Women Are History” arched around a circle in which the silhouette of Wonder Woman’s head, with the tiara, was showing. It’s unclear when the badge design was discontinued, but in March 1985, during Women’s History Week, almost 400 Girl Scouts in Palm Beach, Florida, were presented with the badge. Also sometime in 1985, a conference was held titled “Women Are History: Women of Color, Past, Present, and Future,” funded in part by the Wonder Woman Foundation, but no further information about the event is known.

ANDY MANGELS is the USA Today bestselling author and co-author of 20 books, including the upcoming TwoMorrows book Lou Scheimer: Creating the Filmation Generation, as well as Iron Man: Beneath the Armor, and a lot of comic books. Additionally, he has scripted, directed, and produced Special Features for over 40 DVD releases. His moustache is infamous. He also runs the Wonder Woman Museum online and is the founder of Wonder Woman Day and Women of Wonder Day. www.AndyMangels.com www.WonderWomanMuseum.com www.WomenOfWonderDay.com

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The company that became DC Comics has addressed social issues almost from the start, certainly from the time it began publishing original material other than straight humor and adventure. With the arrival of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster’s Superman in Action Comics #1 (June 1938), fighting social ills became the young men’s focus. Whether challenging errors in the legal system, spousal abuse, or political corruption in that first issue, a tone was set. It wasn’t long before Jerry and Joe’s publishers and early editors followed suit, using comic-book covers to show their heroes’ patriotism as World War II approached and overtook this country. Victory gardens were planted, paper drives were instigated, and War Bonds were sold due to these images. In the final two years of conflict, six giveaway issues of Superman were commissioned by the Navy to improve the literacy of its servicemen. After the war, the publishers continued their efforts (“Superman and the Cleveland Fire,” a four-page special issue that helped raise money for the city’s Hospital Fund) while enlisting child psychologists and others to prove their books were wholesome and not harmful to kids. This, because in spite of the positive feelings held by some, storm clouds had gathered. The resultant lightning would lead to comic-book bonfires and to people like psychologist Frederic Wertham, who would attack comics content in the late 1940s and well into the next decade.

DC’s PSAs Sometimes it’s more important to note when the right thing is done than to question the motive behind it. Regardless of the reason why, in 1949 National (DC) earmarked space in its various titles for public service announcements, also known as public service ads, or PSAs. Editor Jack Schiff’s passion for the project was evident. He donated his time for free to write roughly one PSA per month in association with the National Social Welfare Assembly. In each of the single-pagers, various stars of the DC line of titles swooped in to lecture everyday kids after they committed some minor infraction or spoke hurtfully to their peers. Social problems that were relevant but not controversial were occasionally granted full-story status. Superman family editor Mort Weisinger, who by the 1960s was also vicepresident of public relations for the company, had his writers include real celebrities in certain scripts. Even USA President John F. Kennedy sometimes participated, most notably when co-writers Bill Finger and E. Nelson Bridwell challenged America’s flabby youth to get in shape via the President’s Physical Fitness Program (Superman #170, July 1964). Next, a time-traveling Man of Steel helped a man named Henry Bergh bring a scoundrel to justice for mistreating animals. Turns out Bergh was the man who founded the ASPCA (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) in 1866. Though animal cruelty is a serious issue, Weisinger and his story writer (possibly Leo Dorfman) chose to lighten the impact by having the villain attempt to injure some superpowered “pets” brought from the present. Therefore, no animal was really hurt (Superman #176, Apr. 1965).

Cry … Justice! Gorgeous Neal Adams art graced this house ad touting the PSAs “Justice for All Includes Children.” TM & © DC Comics.

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Eddy Zeno

No Reservations Writer Bob Kanigher, with artists Werner Roth and Vince Colletta, attacked prejudice against Native Americans in Lois Lane #110 (May 1971). Note the in-your-face body language of the “ghetto mother” as she tongue-lashes Lois in panel one. TM & © DC Comics.

O’Neil had done in the early 1970s, a writer might enlist a tragic conclusion as a way of saying that the crisis being addressed was nowhere close to being solved. DC borrowed registered nurse Mindy Newell from her chosen profession to write comics. Mindy dropped a tale about missing children inside a Lois Lane two-issue miniseries, Lois Lane: “When It Rains, God is Crying,” Books One and Two (Aug. and Sept. 1986). The message was conveyed: there are far more young ones than we dare to believe being abducted and abused in this country. In addition, when they are sometimes recovered and returned to their families, the trauma leaves them forever changed. In Newell’s story, Lois matured into a true investigative reporter while becoming obsessed with doing something to combat the problem. No pat or happy ending was justified and none was considered. It was a far cry from the Kanigher days when Lane was primarily interested in getting married and having children, even if they were adopted and of a different race. Artist Gray Morrow’s illustrations only added to the realism. A more high-profile 1986 specialissue comic book than Newell’s miniseries was DC’s Superman and Batman: Heroes Against Hunger. That’s because a multitude of well-known Golden and Silver Age veterans teamed with their Bronze Age counterparts. On August 24, 2011, Jerry Ordway discussed with BACK Jenette Kahn Issue

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TM & © DC Comics.

TRANSITIONS As noted by the previous example, DC Comics during its Silver Age had a habit of dealing with that day’s concerns through the lens of an earlier era. Perhaps the writers did not wish to appear like radical activists while addressing themes in kids’ books that still held meaning for them as adults. One social crusader, longtime editor and prolific writer Robert Kanigher, became DC’s go-to guy as the 1960s advanced. He could address the turmoil of being a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War era or tackle racial prejudice during the Civil Rights movement by staging his stories during World War II. By the time the ’70s commenced, thanks in part to rival Marvel Comics’ example, DC’s superheroes were maturing enough to handle the tougher issues in real time. Middle-aged Kanigher, now lead writer on the Lois Lane title, again tackled the matter of skin color intolerance but in the current day. First, he temporarily turned the woman reporter into an African-American. A few issues later Lois experienced hostility for wanting to adopt a Native-American infant. The stories appeared in Superman’s Girl Friend Lois Lane #106 (Nov. 1970) and in #110 (May 1971), respectively. Kanigher’s attempts at relevance in current society were beginning to break new ground at the very conservative company. However, his delivery could be heavy-handed. His dialogue, too, felt like someone from another generation trying to be hip. The next highprofile writer who sought relevance in comic books was closer in age to the youth he hoped to reach. Dennis “Denny” O’Neil saw himself as a journalist, picking freely from the headlines of the day to involve his characters in matters that would have repercussions, no matter which actions they took. O’Neil tackled issues such as pollution in Justice League of America #70 (Mar. 1970) just before his Green Lantern/Green Arrow run (starting in #76, Apr. 1970) set a benchmark for superheroes crossing from their fantasy world into settings more like our own. Following editor Jack Schiff’s retirement in 1967, DC’s single-page PSAs went on hiatus for nearly a decade. When they resumed, the Bronze Age was in full bloom and the year was 1976. Sol Harrison became DC’s president and was also the point man for nine PSAs with the running title “Justice for All Includes Children.” Harrison assigned E. Nelson Bridwell to write the entries; six were illustrated by Neal Adams and three by Curt Swan. Instead of the National Social Welfare Assembly, this go-round the creators were donating their services to the National Council of Juvenile Court Judges. Though the creators were different, the PSAs were gently messaged and a throwback to previous decades. The same year that Sol Harrison became president of DC Comics, Jenette Kahn was hired as publisher. When Harrison retired in 1981, Kahn also assumed his station as president and was later promoted to editor-inchief. Under her nurturing hand, newfound creative freedom was granted. When addressing a societal problem, a storyteller could select an upbeat ending versus a more inconclusive finale with a modicum of hope. Or—in addition to telling stories with no pat answers as Dennis

And You Thought Streaky the Supercat Was Pushing It…! A two-page spread from the 1986 Supergirl one-shot, published in conjunction with American Honda and the US Department of Transportation’s National Safety Belt Campaign. Writing credits: Joe Orlando (story), Andy Helfer and Barry Marx (dialogue). Art by Jose Delbo (layouts), Orlando (character pencils and colors), Dave Hunt (background pencils), Bob Oksner (inks), and uncharacteristically whimsical lettering from Gaspar Saladino! Whew! TM & © DC Comics.

ISSUE what it meant on a personal level to work with FROM NANCY REAGAN TO ELIZABETH an admired artist who had a few years on him in the DOLE TO MARLO THOMAS business: “I got called in to do that during the famine Rather than former vice president of public relations in Ethiopia … I believe I volunteered with the idea I Mort Weisinger having his writers occasionally insert would ink [José Luis] García-López pages. (I also inked celebrities into stories, Jenette Kahn used her corporate some pages for an independent relief comic, done by connections and personal friendships, especially with a fan artist, but I am not sure that ever got finished.) strong women, to address timely issues. García-López had volunteered, and couldn’t find a In the article “Relevance in Comics” (BACK ISSUE #49, hole in his schedule to do more than rough layouts, July 2011), Alex Boney wrote about DC’s three New Teen so I lightboxed and fleshed them out. I believe DC Titans specials in cooperation with the president’s Drug facilitated the shipping and coordinating for Jim Awareness Campaign. Produced in conjunction with Starlin, who initiated the project. No one got paid, corporate sponsors in 1983, Jenette played a key role in [they] just volunteered time for [2] pages, like me. their coming to fruition while sole writer (and scripter on “Why’d I do it?” continues Ordway. “It’s nice to be two of the three comics) Marv Wolfman did exhaustive asked. I love the ‘let’s put on a show’ aspect of comic- research on the effects and prevalence of different illegal book charitable projects—it feels more real to put pen substances. Former First Lady Nancy Reagan addressed to paper than to write a check. [Later,] with ACTOR, and readers from the inside front cover and Kahn was to be now HERO Initiative, I feel strongly in the concept of honored for the work. Marv Wolfman remembers,“Jenette taking care of fellow comics people during hardship. was supposed to have a dinner at the White House and I’ve done stuff for them for as long as they’ve existed.” couldn’t attend, so I went in her place. It wasn’t a formal Heroes Against Hunger was a spillover project from dinner and was served in the White House Mess (run by Marvel Comics, who did its own jam-issue special, Heroes the Navy). My wife at the time couldn’t come so they gave for Hope starring the X-Men, in ’85. Jim Starlin and fellow her a dinner at the Senate Office Building. From what I artist/friend Bernie Wrightson ran with the idea from one heard, her dinner was probably better than mine. But I did company to the other. The actual impetus came from eat at the White House and got a special behind-theIrish rock singer Bob Geldof and his Live Aid, scenes tour so that was cool. Oh, one more thing, Band Aid, and later musical efforts whose I did do a press conference in the spot where goal was to raise money for famine relief. the president usually did his. It was with While there was no trite resolution the White House Press Corps.” to the staggering problem in Heroes In 1984, a full-length Supergirl free Against Hunger, it likely served as comic book was released. American one of the inspirations for Alex Ross Honda and DC worked “in cooperation and Paul Dini’s Superman: Peace on with the US Department of Earth (Jan. 1999). In both books, Transportation’s National Safety Belt the intent was to insist that starvation Campaign.” Behind the front cover for many remains a problem that Ronald Reagan’s Transportation cannot be defeated, even if superSecretary, Elizabeth Dole, urged teenheroes did exist, without worldwide agers to “buckle up” in order to more cooperation and urgent attending to than double their chances of surviving marlo thomas this matter. [Editor’s note: Superman: a car crash. A follow-up Supergirl givePeace on Earth, and the Dini/Ross away from the same sponsors followed team’s other tabloid-sized collaborations, will be in 1986. Both contained fantasy dream sequences. covered in BI #61, our “Tabloids and Treasuries” issue, However, where the earlier issue flowed in and out of featuring an Alex Ross cover.] movie take-offs from Mad Max, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and a noir Humphrey Bogart detective flick, the 1986 version was more whimsical. Secretary Dole’s written message was updated to target younger children and the dream sequences included Humpty Dumpty, Mother Goose, and the Three Little Pigs. Even the exuberant lettering of Gaspar Saladino was lighter, fluffier—more childlike. Marlo Thomas, one-time television star of That Girl, is now National Outreach Director for St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee. In 1974 and again in 1987, she was a primary force behind two books and accompanying music compilations respectively titled Free to Be … You and Me and Free to Be… A Family. The latter was subtitled A Book About All Kinds of Belonging, and was fashioned to let kids know that there are many avenues to being part of what constitutes “family.” Writers, artists, musicians, and editors contributed to the project in order to raise money for the Free to Be Foundation, established to keep at-risk families together and safe from danger. DC’s contribution was the eight-pager “And Superboy Makes 3.” Two of Jenette’s stalwarts, Dick Giordano and Joe Orlando, served as inker and editor; a semi-retired Carmine Infantino got his wish to be the penciler. Children’s author Mark Saltzman penned the vignette, after previously co-writing the DC Super Heroes Super Healthy Cookbook in 1981. Saltzman

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And Superboy Makes 3 A spread from the 1987 specialty comic, written by Mark Saltzman and illustrated by Carmine Infantino and Dick Giordano, with colors by Adrienne Roy.

TM & © DC Comics.

intermediary between Jenette Kahn and former United States Chief UN Delegate (and later President Clinton’s Secretary of State) Madeline Albright. Collins brought her dear friend Kahn the idea of distributing free comic books to children to promote landmine-safety awareness. The resulting alliance led to two DC special issues distributed by the Department of Defense. One had Superman flying solo and was released in the languages of English, Cyrillic, and Latin for South Eastern Europe’s Bosnia-Herzegovina. The second teamed Wonder Woman and reinforced the fact that with love, nurturing, and a feeling of security, the Man of Steel and saw print in both English and Spanish editions for those who are adopted are as much their parents’ children as if they the Latin American countries of Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. Superman: Deadly Legacy was handed out in 1996, followed by are blood, “And Superboy Makes 3” was light; it was fun. The ending contained a nice surprise, when it was learned that Superman was Superman and Wonder Woman: The Hidden Killer in ’98. A third book reprising his story on the Phil Donahue Show with fellow adopted was planned for Angola on Africa’s west coast but was never released. Every contingency had to be considered guests Supergirl, Batman, and Robin. (Longtime former talk show with the landmine-awareness comics host Phil Donahue is Marlo Thomas’ husband.) while critics raised important questions. STREET CRED For instance, would young children In BACK ISSUE #51 (Sept. 2011), John Ostrander discussed writing purposely enter danger zones while Batman: Seduction of the Gun (Feb. 1992). For the current article, fantasizing a superhero rescue? Would more information behind its impetus was desired and Paul Levitz there be any benefit to receiving one of contributes the following: “B: SotG started with the tragic gun killing of these comic books if those in rural areas John Reisenbach, the son of the Warner had never heard of Superman or Wonder Bros. executive who was our boss in Woman? Even clothing had to be those years. Leaving the memorial, considered from a cultural standpoint, Jenette was asking me what I would do which is why the Amazon was dressed to deal with such a tragedy, and I said if more modestly in Hidden Killer than in it was me, I’d write. She took that and in her regular title. Still, if only one major her inimitable way made a far larger and injury was prevented, or a life saved, more impactful project of it. Gov. Wilder wasn’t it worth the effort? Jenette Kahn of Virginia credited it with helping get thought so, riding through a minefield some gun control legislation passed in herself to learn more about the problem his state.” Ostrander adds, “I think she firsthand. DC’s longtime production [Kahn] was the one who decided that manager, Bob Rozakis, affirms that the project had special meaning Batman would make the best character for him, as well: “I had a hand in these and, as a result, got to meet with which to make a statement given Koffi Annan, the UN Secretary General at the time.” In addition to his Bruce Wayne’s own aversion to guns. usual duties, Rozakis wrote the activity pages in the considerably Dennis O’Neil was the Batman group longer Superman/Wonder Woman book. editor at the time and that put the The intent of the two DC-UNICEF comic books varied greatly from project in his camp. Because I had a 1996 one-shot titled Batman: Death of Innocents, The Horror of previously done work with an anti-gun Landmines. Deadly Legacy and Hidden Killer were scripted and drawn lobby and knew some facts and where to find others, Denny asked to allay fear in youngsters while at the same time instilling caution with me to write the story. In this case, Jenette didn’t have much to lessons like: stay on roads and paths previously traveled and do with the story per se—that wasn’t her job. She initiated shown to contain no explosive devices or, no matter how the project, made sure it was in competent hands, and much they might look like it, mines are anything but toys. then let all concerned do their jobs.” By contrast, Batman: Death of Innocents, The Horror One in more fortunate circumstances might call of Landmines could afford to be less guarded about the relentless violence in B: SotG cartoony and over sensitive international politics and the potential for the top. But after learning how inescapable the harm to other cultures. It was designed to garner lifestyle is for many who feel trapped in their outrage by helping to pressure countries around the surroundings, denial must be abandoned. The tale’s world, including the USA, to ban further use of these authenticity was further enhanced by eliciting ten inhumane weapons. The story ended when a little girl students at St. Angela Hall Academy in Fort Greene, in Batman’s care was blown apart while reaching for a Brooklyn, to help with the street language. half-exposed mine that looked like a yo-yo. Dennis O’Neil wrote instead of editing, while Scott Peterson MADELINE ALBRIGHT assumed those duties. Selling through direct sales, Landmines that are positioned and abandoned madeline albright Joe Staton penciled and Bill Sienkiewicz inked for a in various countries primarily maim or kill military scratchier, less clean approach than the free comics personnel first, civilians later. Unsuspecting youngsters who run and play in these regions are especially vulnerable. To address given to kids in battle-scarred regions. Four different editorials appeared the issue, singer Judy Collins worked with the United Nations in the comic book, led off by Vermont US Senator Patrick Leahy: International Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) and became the “…Instead of saying we want a ban but continuing to use anti-personnel Jenette Kahn Issue

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TM & © DC Comics.

Landmine Safety Awareness Superman: Deadly Legacy (1996) was a very important project to Jenette Kahn. Seen here are pages in two languages, with overlays added to change the word balloons. Written by Louise Simonson and drawn by Kieron Dwyer and Dick Giordano. TM & © DC Comics.

landmines, the US, by far the world’s strongest military power, should set an example for the rest of the world.” Leahy and company have had some success. While not using landmines itself since 1991, the United States, as of December 2011, remains one of 38 nations that has not signed a worldwide treaty to destroy all stockpiles and ban them from further use. (A postscript to the landmine project occurred at Comic-Con International 2010 when Paul Levitz did a panel interviewing his old boss Jenette Kahn. An audience member noted with emotion that he had witnessed children’s lives being saved in Latin America as a direct result of learning from the Superman/Wonder Woman books they’d been given.)

when asked about his role in some of the aforementioned special books: “Jenette’s a rabbi’s daughter, and from a family that was deeply involved in social justice—so she came to her calling naturally. I don’t have any such background, and I think pursued such projects with enthusiasm, but without her unique courage… While I may have touched these projects, things like the Teen Titans Drug program or the landmine comics only happened because of her dedication. I was very far on the sidelines by comparison, dealing with contracts or the like. She rode through the minefields (literally in one case). The 9-11 book is really the only pro–social project that had more of me in it than Jenette.” DC’s 9-11, Volume 2 (Volume 1 was a companion book produced by Dark Horse, Chaos!, and Image Comics) rapidly came about after FROM DORIS DAY TO 9-11 its namesake day’s nightmare events. Levitz was still with Jenette in Though many single ads, full-length specials, and regular series DC his role as publisher. Nevertheless, he not only edited the comic books besides those mentioned have addressed social book but wrote two moving tales that appeared therein. issues, two more deserve special mention. Also providing the introduction, Paul scribed: “We had Superman for the Animals (2000) was prepared for stories to tell and images to share, in the hope that the Doris Day Animal Foundation. The former singer they will help you to remember September 11th and movie star has been strongly tied to rights for and to ease the pain you lived through that day. animals since 1971. Her Animal League has since We needed to lift our pens, measure them against merged with the Humane Society of the United the swords of vengeance and the crumpled steel States. Superman for the Animals was kid friendly. of anger. We hope this helps you, and we know Still, there was honesty as the warped leader of a producing it has helped us.” It was apparent that gang of more innocent boys was “sent into heavy Paul was more than ready to continue the legacy duty with a psychologist” after discovering he’d killed that he and Jenette shared “like a hundred” animals on his own. with so many, and which The story’s message of championing the underdog, began so long ago. even if that meant an actual dog, was meaningful to doris day This article is dedicated to the Ms. Kahn. She quoted writer Mark Millar’s dialogue many heroes who gave their while writing about social advocacy in the book, Superman: Cover to Cover: “You inspired me to do the right thing … and time and talent to serve the public through DC Comics. you did it just by being who you are. I realized I don’t need to be Special thanks go to Paul Levitz, Jerry Ordway, John Ostrander, Bob Rozakis, and Marv Wolfman for their Superman to stand up for what’s right! You showed me that being a hero insights, and to Jeff O’Bryant at Empire Auctions for isn’t about fighting tough or throwing your weight around. It’s really supplying original art images. about being willing to help those who can’t fight for themselves.” Paul Levitz served as DC’s president and publisher after Jenette retired Comics historian EDDY ZENO is the author of the in 2002; he returned to comic-book writing in 2009. Working side-by-side must-have volume Curt Swan: A Life in Comics with Ms. Kahn since she started at the company, Paul humbly responds (Vanguard Productions, 2002). 60 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

Alex Boney

By any objective measure, 1993 was a boom year for the comics industry. Comic-book companies were being launched left and right. Individual issues of comics were selling in the millions—the first time sales had reached that level since the Golden Age of the late ’30s and early ’40s. Thousands of direct-market comics-specialty shops were springing up all over the United States. Comics news and “events” such as the “Death of Superman” were making national headlines, and comics writers and artists were becoming pop-culture superstars. We all know how this story ends, of course. As the speculators who drove the boom lost interest and moved on, the industry contracted severely less than two years later, pulling the rug out from under retailers and exposing the deep flaws that existed in the economic model the comics industry had embraced. But despite all the handwringing of the mid-’90s, not everything that emerged in 1993 was toxic or doomed to failure. The story of DC Comics’ Vertigo imprint, which launched that year, is instead one of endurance, perseverance, and artistic integrity. Greenlighted by Jenette Kahn and Paul Levitz and spearheaded by line editor Karen Berger, Vertigo remains one of the most successful and respected ventures in the history of comics publishing. Nearly 20 years after its launch, Vertigo continues to produce innovative material while nurturing some of the best new talent in the industry. It’s a company that probably shouldn’t have survived—especially during the ’90s, when surface and image seemed to trump depth and substance. But because Vertigo was defined both by the financial backing of DC and by a commitment to creativity, the company was able to weather the wild fluctuations of the market and endure as a model of adult publishing in a medium that was listing hard toward the juvenile.

ANATOMY LESSON Although Vertigo was officially launched in 1993, the imprint is the result of a convergence of events (and people) stretching back to the late 1970s. Many of the things Vertigo came to be known for—creator ownership, mature-reader appeal, and alt-comix sensibilities—actually had been pioneered by earlier companies and creators. In 1977 brothers Jan and Dean Mullaney founded Eclipse Comics, a company that placed a heavy emphasis on artists’ and writers’ ownership over the material they created. Eclipse also favored the creation of original, full-length graphic novels and spearheaded the direct-market model for comics distribution. In 1978, Eclipse published Don McGregor and Paul Gulacy’s Sabre: Slow Fade of an Endangered Species—the first original graphic novel sold

You’ll Meet Her One Day An undated Dave McKean painting of the breakout character from Sandman, Death. Courtesy of Heritage Comics Auctions (www.ha.com). TM & © DC Comics.

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NATURAL CONSEQUENCES Karen Berger, who majored in English and minored in journalism and art history at Brooklyn College in the late ’70s, was hired by DC Comics as an editorial assistant to Paul Levitz in 1979. DC had experienced a fair amount of turmoil in the years leading up to Berger’s appointment. Publisher Jenette Kahn had guided the company through both an explosion and an implosion in 1977–1978, and DC was trying to figure out its place in the new direct market that threatened to disperse sales and reduce readership. Berger entered the industry at a time of enormous flux, and her first assignments were instrumental in guiding the trajectory of her career. After working with Levitz for two years, Berger was given her own books to edit in 1981. When Joe Orlando stepped down as editor of DC’s

long-running horror/suspense anthology book House of Mystery, Berger took over editorial duties (#292, May 1981). According to Berger, the assignment was both a perfect fit and a testing ground: “I didn’t read comics as a kid, and like many women, I was not in tune with the superhero genre that totally dominated comics. Back then, DC was still (thankfully) publishing the last vestiges of the once-popular horror/ mystery titles of the early ’70s. And it was on House of Mystery, an anthology title of memorable and unmemorable stories alike, that I began to work on what many people call the ‘weird’ stuff: stories that probe into the complex and oftentimes dark facets of human nature, tales of ordinary people in extraordinary situations, and other odd things” (Vertigo “On the Ledge” column, Jan. 1993). Though House of Mystery was rooted in the darker, edgier side of DC’s publication history, Berger’s early work at DC was also tied firmly to the company’s predominant genre: superheroes. Berger was appointed editor of Legion of Super-Heroes shortly after Paul Levitz, her mentor, returned to write the title with #284 (Feb. 1982). She would go on to edit a vast array of Legion-related series and miniseries (some of the most complicated and continuity-dense superhero comics in the history of the medium) throughout the rest of the decade. Berger also inherited editorial chores on New Talent Showcase in 1984 and spearheaded the fantasy hero series Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld, which was written by Dan Mishkin and Gary Cohn and illustrated by Ernie Colón. She worked on Arion, Lord of Atlantis and Blue Beetle, and she was appointed editor of George Pérez’s newly relaunched Wonder Woman in 1987 (a book she would stay with for more than five years). While Berger kept a foot in superhero comics throughout the ’80s (and into the ’90s), she never relinquished her interest in DC’s dark fantasy and supernatural books. A year after she began working with Levitz on LOSH, Berger took over as editor of Saga of the Swamp Thing. It was her experience on this book, perhaps more than any of her other professional work, that prepared her to adapt to (and ultimately shape) the literary and imaginative comics explosion at DC later in the decade.

SWAMPED Because the ’80s began with a comics-market field that was more level than it had been in decades, DC and Marvel quickly recognized the need to adjust to new readership expectations. In 1983, Marvel Comics launched its Epic Comics imprint, which published comics without the CCA seal of approval and which offered creators ownership rights and royalties. Epic co-editors Archie Goodwin and Al Milgrom allowed their writers and artists a vast amount of creative latitude, resulting in some of the most progressive comics of the decade. 1985 in particular was a watershed year for the company. In that year, Epic published David Michelinie’s The Bozz Chronicles (a six-issue series about an alien detective in Victorian England), Rick Veitch’s cerebral and psychedelic The One, and J. M. DeMatteis and Jon J Muth’s Moonshadow (a 12-issue whimsical coming-of-age tale that was the first completely painted American comic-book series). Epic continued to publish trailblazing work by new and experimental artists throughout the ’80s and into the ’90s. DeMatteis teamed with artist Kent Williams to create Blood: A Tale in 1987, while Pat Mills and Kevin O’Neill produced the scathing and outrageous political satire Marshal Law. In 1988, Epic released Bill Sienkiewicz’s Stray Toasters as it was beginning to translate, color, and publish Katsuhiro Otomo’s Akira.

The Big ’80s DC Comics’ Dick Giordano and Karen Berger. Courtesy of DC Comics. 62 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

through the direct market at comic-book specialty shops. Eclipse went on to publish a number of key creator-owned titles throughout the ’80s, including Max Allan Collins and Terry Beatty’s Ms. Tree and Steve Gerber’s Destroyer Duck (1982), Scott McCloud’s Zot! (1984), and Tim Truman’s Scout (1985). Eclipse wasn’t the only company to steer the trend toward creator ownership and experimental publishing in the ’80s. The directmarket model had put smaller comics companies on more even footing with publishing giants DC and Marvel, and most of these smaller companies were operating without the constraints of the Comics Code Authority (CCA). As a result, a steady stream of diverse and genre-bending material began streaming into comics stores throughout the decade. Capital Comics, founded in 1981, was the early home of Steve Rude and Mike Baron’s Nexus and Baron’s The Badger. While Capital’s comics venture was short-lived, startup First Comics recruited many of Capital’s creators under the editorial leadership of Mike Gold in 1983 and went on to launch high-profile projects such as Howard Chaykin’s American Flagg! and Mike Grell’s Jon Sable, Freelance. Based in San Diego, Bill and Steve Schanes founded Pacific Comics in 1981 and jump-started both Dave Stevens’ Rocketeer and Sergio Aragonés’ Groo the Wanderer. Comico, founded a year later, was the home of Matt Wagner’s Mage and Grendel. Dave Sim had experienced early underground success with Cerebus (1977), but Fantagraphics and Mirage Comics initiated the more widespread black-and-white indie comics boom with Los Bros. Hernadez’s Love and Rockets (1982) and Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird’s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1984). In short, the comics industry looked much different in 1985 than it had just five years earlier. But as rapidly as the scene had changed in the first half of the decade, the evolution of the industry throughout the rest of the ’80s relied predominantly on the creative and editorial direction of someone who got her start at one of the Big Two at the beginning of the decade.

And in 1990–1991, Epic recruited Ted McKeever to write and draw the darkly humored, post–apocalyptic Plastic Forks and Metropol. Epic was probably the company that most directly influenced Vertigo’s imprint-within-a-majorcompany model, but Epic never quite consolidated its work or branded itself in a way that prepared it for longevity. DC Comics didn’t launch a “mature readers” imprint as early as Marvel did, but the company did move toward more inventive publishing in an attempt to compete with independent publishers. The first major, high-profile work in this mold was Frank Miller’s Ronin (1983). Miller had become wildly popular after a critically acclaimed stint on Marvel’s Daredevil, and his DC miniseries about futuristic sci-fi samurai warriors early ’70s, couldn’t really cut it for an perfectly captured the pop-cultural ’80s audience. The audience has zeitgeist of the early ’80s. But DC’s changed, their environment has biggest hire came in 1984, when Len changed, and their notion of horror Wein called the relatively new British has changed. For me, the only areas in talent Alan Moore to ask him if he which we can successfully compete would take over writing chores on are in the novel things that we can Swamp Thing. Wein was editing a do with our storytelling that cannot ALAN MOORE book starring the character he had be successfully duplicated by other popularized in the 1970s, and he media, and in the weight, depth, thought the dark and serious sensibilities Moore had and moment of our actual stories…. With Swamp displayed in British anthology comics 2000 A.D. and Thing, we’re trying the best we can to construct Warrior made Moore a natural fit for the title. stories that have some sort of real human resonance The biggest struggle Moore had early in the series and some moments of genuine unease” (The Comics was finding a voice that could effectively convey Journal #93, p. 81). horror to an ’80s audience that had become desensitized Only a few issues after Moore began working on by the prevalence of slasher flicks and post–Vietnam Swamp Thing, Wein departed the book and left editorial cynicism. As Moore noted in an interview with Gary duties to Karen Berger. But according to Moore, a Groth in 1984, “Specifically, when approaching creatively supportive structure had been established that Swamp Thing, I could see a number of problems. The allowed him to tell the provocative, pensive stories he was first was that Len and Berni[e]’s original conception of hired to write: “Working with Len on the book was an the character, while it had worked perfectly back in the absolute dream. Everything seemed to come together Jenette Kahn Issue

Pushing Boundaries The relationship between Swamp Thing and Abby Cable (later Holland) took root under the pen of writer Alan Moore. (left) The Saga of the Swamp Thing #34 (Mar. 1985), by John Totleben. (right) An original art page from that issue, penciled by Stephen R. Bissette and inked by Totleben. TM & © DC Comics.

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Forbidden Fruit (left) A 1988 specialty painting of Abby and Swampy by Steve Bissette. (right) John Totleben produced this convention sketch of DC’s Earth Elemental at the 1985 Mid-Ohio Con. Both images courtesy of Heritage. TM & © DC Comics.

with tremendous ease, and the only thing that disturbed me was that my editor was the person who’d done so much to establish Swamp Thing as a workable and successful character during the book’s first run…. Now that Karen’s taken over, things are every bit as copacetic. The only major difference so far is that Karen has a much better telephone voice than Len” (TCJ # 93, p. 82). For Berger, the working relationship was mutually rewarding and creatively fertile. Moore’s integration of politics, race, environmentalism, and sexuality into the larger framework of psychological terror—a framework enhanced by the visual stylings Stephen Bissette and John Totleben—gradually began to attract critical attention and a larger readership. It also shifted Swamp Thing away from DC’s mainstream universe. Though DC characters such as Batman, Phantom Stranger, Deadman, and the Demon Etrigan appeared from time to time over the course of the series, it was clear that Swamp Thing was carving out new territory.

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The way the book was presented also began to reflect this shift. The Comics Code Authority seal was dropped from the series after Swamp Thing #29, and the label “Sophisticated Suspense” appeared regularly on the series’ covers beginning with #31. For Moore, the changes—and the editorial support that facilitated them—reflected a progressive movement toward a more serious publishing standard. As Moore said at a San Diego Comic-Con panel in 1985, “To me, the mark of a good editor is somebody who knows what is good stuff. Those are the editors I respect. Who know when to leave well enough alone. If there’s something that bothers Karen, she’ll phone up and ask me about it. If I can make sense of it for her, she’s happy with it. She’s the perfect editor. Karen’s been really supportive of the book. Take the whole thing with the Code. It was Karen who was saying, ‘If the Code doesn’t want to put a sticker on this particular issue, I think we should forget about the Code.’ I appreciated that. Dick Giordano as well. They put some muscle in there, and they took the Code off the front, which is something I’m certainly very happy with. Karen’s great—I’ve got no complaints about her at all” (TCJ #106, p. 38–39). Moore continued to push boundaries and disrupt expectations with Swamp Thing for another three years, but his other projects with DC eventually eclipsed the success of that title. In 1985, Moore and Dave Gibbons subverted and deconstructed the superhero genre in the 12-issue series Watchmen. And in 1988, Moore and David Lloyd finished their near-future anarchic dystopia V for Vendetta, which they had started but abandoned in Warrior several years earlier. By 1988, Moore was seen as the principal visionary of DC’s (and, essentially, the American comics industry’s) migration toward more erudite, highbrow content in comics. But changes never come naturally to major corporations, and DC’s response to increased cultural scrutiny eventually drove Moore away from the company. In 1985, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) began attaching “Explicit Content” labels to albums after being pressured by conservative activist

groups like the Parents Music Resource Center. Much as the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) had done with movie ratings and the Comics Code Authority had done with its Seal of Approval, the RIAA instituted the “Explicit Content” warning as a means of self-policing its output. This selfregulation eventually spread to comics, as parental watchdog groups began paying closer attention to comics content. Because the erosion of the CCA as a means of effectively self-regulating comics was becoming clearer as the ’80s progressed, DC Comics preemptively decided to head off public-relations nightmares by attaching a “Suggested for Mature Readers” label to the covers of comics that posed potential problems for them (graphic violence, overt sexuality, or situations outside the purview of the CCA). For Moore and many of his peers at DC, the company’s decision to institute the “Mature Readers” policy without first soliciting feedback from creators was an ideological betrayal. As Moore told Gary Groth in 1987, “Now, I would have hoped that DC, in the first place, would not have gone about the ratings or the labelings or whatever affair without consulting the creators. I would have hoped that in the first place, that we would have had a chance to discuss this before the whole thing ever reached the public eye, so that all of this could have been avoided. But that didn’t happen…. So, from a political point of view, as a parent and as a writer, my position was that I do not believe that a ratings system of that sort should be implemented. Now, beyond that, I was also very worried in a political way about the way in which this seemed to have come about. Because it seemed to me that because of pressure being brought to bear by people who, in my book, have brought an extreme moral and political stance, DC were basically caving in a fashion which I found to be morally cowardly” (TCJ #118, p. 62). As a result of this fallout, Moore left DC and swore never to work for the company again. He continued to write Miracleman for Eclipse Comics until 1989, but his willingness to work for the Big Two in the comics industry had come to an end. (Moore had decided never to work for Marvel in 1985, when the company refused to even talk about the legal possibility of using the name Marvelman as the title of Moore’s superhero book.) Moore’s departure was the kind of public-relations disaster DC had sought to avert in the first place (though not in the way they expected), but the standard Moore had set and the influence he had exerted continued to reverberate through DC years after his departure.

More from Moore (top) The iconic cover of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ Watchmen #1 (Sept. 1986). (bottom) From the Heritage archives, an original art page from Moore and David Lloyd’s V for Vendetta #9 (Mar. 1989). TM & © DC Comics.

LOOSE ENDS If 1985–1986 were the years in which DC began to find its creative voice (with Watchmen, Dark Knight, “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?,” and Crisis on Infinite Earths), 1987–1988 were the years in which DC began to refine that voice. Moore left Swamp Thing with issue #64 (Sept. 1987), but Karen Berger hired regular Swamp Thing artist Rick Veitch to take over writing duties on the book, which continued to move in challenging and interesting directions. DC also hired editor Mike Gold away from First Comics, and Gold brought many of his alternative press friends with him. Under Gold’s supervision, DC launched a new horror anthology called Wasteland, written by John Ostrander and Del Close, a new Green Arrow book by Mike Grell (the Longbow Hunters miniseries and the subsequent ongoing series), and a Question series by Denny O’Neil and Denys Cowan. All of these books bore the “Suggested for Mature Readers” label, all of them wrestled with real-world philosophical and social concerns, and all of them assumed that an older and more discerning readership had already been established within the wider comics audience. For Karen Berger, DC’s willingness to take chances on new material outside its comfort zone provided an opening. If Moore had been able to change readers’ (and executives’)

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minds about what was possible in comics narrative, surely there were magic, and supernatural suspense. That same year, Morrison began other writers who could continue to push harder and stretch further working on Animal Man, a series starring a literal “Forgotten Hero” outside the confines of the superhero mainstream. As Berger wrote in from the 1960s that Morrison used to explore contemporary critical Swamp Thing #64, “Probably the best thing that Alan did for the issues ranging from animal rights to postmodern metatextuality. Swamp Thing series and for the comic book field in general was to Gaiman and McKean collaborated on a fully painted three-issue series increase people’s awareness of the writer’s contribution. With a few featuring Black Orchid, an obscure 1970s backup character pulled exceptions, no other writer in the history of comics has generated the from Adventure Comics and The Phantom Stranger. attention and respect that Alan has. In a visually-oriented industry The so-called “British Invasion” may have featured unknown that has always been dominated by its graphics, that’s a considerable creators using marginal characters, but the work these writers and achievement. So, perhaps the next time an unknown writer takes on artists were doing with these characters was anything but retrograde, an unpopular series in an unpopular genre, people may be more likely amateurish, and unmemorable. According to Morrison, “We arrived to take notice and remember—that it all starts with the word.” under the patronage of radical progressives on the publishing and Rather than waiting for this change to come about gradually, editorial side at DC, like Jenette Kahn, Dick Giordano, and Karen Berger. Berger decided to initiate the change and speed it along herself. In 1986, We flourished in a culture where risk-taking women with taste were Berger began making trips to London in search of British comics in charge—including Marvel editors such as Bernie Jaye, talent. The risk DC had taken with Moore and Gibbons who worked with Alan Moore on the Captain Marvel strip, had paid off, and DC was hopeful that they could and Sheila Cranna, who edited some of my own early recreate the artistic achievement they had experienced work for hire on Doctor Who monthly. Most important in the mid-’80s by recruiting artists and writers from for me, we were encouraged to be shocking and abroad. Berger soon became DC’s official British liaison different” (Supergods p.186). and talent scout, and she found what she was looking The revitalization of old, forgotten, and/or for in 1987. “There weren’t really a lot of British comics unpopular characters continued throughout the coming out then. There was a talent pool that hadn’t next few years. Gaiman completely reinterpreted Jack really been tapped for the American market. And the Kirby’s Silver Age Sandman and turned the concept stuff they were doing over there was what I was really into a sprawling, epic modern mythology grounded interested in. Most British writers have a different take in horror and tragedy. He also gathered all of DC’s on American superheroes and American comics, and I supernatural characters together in the coming-ofthink it was just a great matching of sensibilities age miniseries Books of Magic. Morrison revised Kid grant morrison between my odd tastes and theirs. So I put the word Eternity and turned Doom Patrol into a metaphysical out that I was looking for new writers and artists. I met playground. British writer Peter Milligan, who had with a lot of people and started working with those I thought were really broken into the comics scene with Tundra’s Skin, reimagined Steve good…. They draw from different cultural, historical, and literary Ditko’s Shade, the Changing Man and began an ongoing series that sources than American mainstream writers” (TCJ #163, p. 49). examined gender identity, madness, and the nature of reality. Berger During the 1987 trip, Berger met with Neil Gaiman, Jamie also edited Morrison and McKean’s radical psycho-clinical examination Delano, Grant Morrison, and Dave McKean. Within a year, all of these of Batman and his cast of villains in Arkham Asylum: A Serious House creators had assignments with DC. In 1988, Delano began writing on Serious Earth—a book that would quickly become (and remain) Hellblazer—essentially a Swamp Thing spin-off rooted deeply in horror, the bestselling original graphic novel in comics history.

Familiar Faces (left) First-issue cover (Jan. 1988) of the Swamp Thing spin-off, Hellblazer, featuring John Constantine. (right) Former minor league DC “weird” hero, Black Orchid, blossomed into her own three-issue Prestige Format series in 1988. Cover art for both by Dave McKean. TM & © DC Comics.

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For Berger, this fruitful creative collaboration was the product of mutual respect, common interests, and a desire to inject fresh energy into characters and genres that had fallen out of favor. “They were all relatively new writers— even in British comics,” Berger tells BACK ISSUE. “Jamie [Delano] and Neil and Grant and Garth [Ennis], who came along a number of years later. And Warren [Ellis], a bit later than that. They were all relatively new, but they were all really good, as well. I have to say that working with them was great because they were quick studies, they knew comics well. Well, Grant and Neil really knew comics well. Jamie didn’t know mainstream American comics as well as those guys did, but he still knew the form. They were all really smart, interesting people. They were well-read in a lot of things besides comics, and I think their sensibilities and their own personal interests really helped inform their work and their stories.” The late ’80s were a time of risk-taking across the board at DC. A comics readership raised on Swamp Thing, Watchmen, and the alternative-comics scene had come to expect more from comics than traditional superhero stories, and DC had assembled a creative team that stood ready to deliver. It was a period of invention in both content and form. If the company was going to be saddled with the “Suggested for Mature Readers” label, it was at least going to try to earn it. In 1989, DC launched an imprint called Piranha Press, which would prove to be a testing ground for Vertigo. Line editor Mark Nevelow tapped into the indie comics scene of the ’80s and tried to recreate it under an umbrella at DC. Nevelow recruited cartoonist Marc Hempel to create Gregory, an offbeat four-book series about a hyperactive, inarticulate boy in a straightjacket and a padded cell. Writer Dave Louapre and artist Dan Sweetman launched an ongoing series called Beautiful Stories for Ugly Children—a collection of illustrated short stories influenced by The Twilight Zone and the EC horror

anthologies of the 1950s. Piranha’s bestselling work was Kyle Baker’s original graphic novel Why I Hate Saturn. The “Mature Readers” books kept expanding beyond the Piranha imprint and the ongoing “Berger Books” as the decade drew to a close. In 1989, DC published Mike Baron and Kelley Jones’ Deadman: Love After Death and Jim Starlin and Steve Oliff’s Gilgamesh II. Berger edited Tom Veitch and Bryan Talbot’s four-issue series The Nazz and Jamie Delano and John Higgins’ six-issue sci-fi allegory World Without End. Berger also edited Peter Milligan’s first mainstream comics work— a four-issue futuristic gangster story called Skreemer. Some of DC’s ventures worked and some didn’t, but it was clear that a corner had been turned creatively. The biggest problem DC faced as the ’90s began was that there wasn’t a clear editorial vision or artistic consistency to the company’s Mature Readers output. Piranha Press was producing interesting work, but the books rarely sold well because so many other imprints were vying for the same market attention. Comics publishers Dark Horse and Caliber had both emerged at the end of the ’80s, and the market was flooded with Jenette Kahn Issue

Bolton and Bolland Pre–Vertigo covers by celebrated cover artists: (left) The Books of Magic #1 (1990), a four-issue Prestige Format series, illo’ed by John Bolton. (right) Lovern Kindzierski’s blue-line color guide for artist Brian Bolland’s cover to Animal Man #3 (Nov. 1988). Courtesy of Heritage. TM & © DC Comics.

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Kaluta Redo-da (right) From Heritage, original cover art to an unpublished version of the cover for Books of Magic #43 (Dec. 1997) and (inset) the published version. Time yourself to see how long it takes for you to find the variation. Art by Michael Wm. Kaluta. (left) Shade, the Changing Man #55. (center) Sandman illo by Shawn McManus. TM & © DC Comics.

books trying to get in on the alternative and independent comics game. Several companies (including Piranha, Eclipse, and First Comics) were unable to remain economically viable and closed shop in the early ’90s. Most of the books Berger edited remained critically successful and artistically vital due to a steady influx of new and rotating talent (UK talents Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon on Hellblazer, novelist Nancy A. Collins on Swamp Thing, Tom Veitch and Jamie Delano on Animal Man), but it was unclear how readers and retailers were supposed to categorize these books. As Berger wrote in 1992, “Most of you already know that DC currently publishes six monthly titles that aren’t quite like any other in the industry: Sandman, Hellblazer, Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Shade, the Changing Man. But, despite producing comics that are challenging, disturbing and creatively singular, we’ve been an ill-defined lot. We’ve been called horror, mature, sophisticated, dark fantasy, cutting-edge and just plain weird” (Vertigo Preview). If these books were going to survive in a market that had become oversaturated and tumultuous, they were going to have to adapt, streamline, and rebrand.

RITE OF SPRING In 1991, shortly after editing DC’s War of the Gods event, Karen Berger took maternity leave from DC. She continued to edit Sandman and Shade, but she had gradually passed off the rest of her long-standing assignments (including Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, Hellblazer, and Animal Man) to other editors. Rather than

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gravitating away from the comics she had pioneered, however, Berger used her leave of absence to figure out a way to make the books more economically viable: “I was on maternity leave with my first child sometime in the early 1990s,” Berger recalls, “and I was meeting with Dick Giordano, Jenette Kahn, and Paul Levitz about general career direction for myself. They wanted to know what I had in mind when I came back to work. They had said, “The books you’re editing are very distinct and you really seem to be creating this new niche in the comics market and a lot of people are responding to it, and you’ve brought in so many interesting new writers and artists, and we’d really love it if you expanded it.” I said, ‘That’s really great, but is there any way I can have my own line—my own imprint?’ And they said, ‘Sure. Come up with a publishing plan, let us know what you want to do.’ I came up with a plan, they liked it, and it was approved. After that, I brainstormed with my editors and writers. In terms of the name of the imprint, it went back and forth. A lot of names came flying out. I came up with Vertigo, and it seemed to stick. Everyone seemed to like it, and that was pretty much it.” Berger spent most of 1992 assembling a team that would help her maximize the quality and impact of Vertigo’s launch. The first person she recruited was Art Young, who had been Berger’s first assistant editor in the ’80s. Young had left DC to work for Disney’s Touchmark Comics line in the early ’90s. But when the Touchmark imprint never materialized, Young came back to work with Berger and brought most of the content he had

developed for Disney (including Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo’s Enigma and Grant Morrison and Steve Yeowell’s Sebasian O) with him. Stuart Moore, who had been an editor at St. Martin’s Press, was in charge of Vertigo’s longest-running titles (Swamp Thing and Hellblazer) and went on to edit some of Vertigo’s most acclaimed creator-owned series (The Invisibles and Preacher). Tom Peyer, Berger’s second assistant editor and a former political cartoonist, helmed Vertigo’s new takes on DC’s supernatural characters (Animal Man, Doom Patrol, and the new ongoing Kid Eternity and Black Orchid). Novelist and freelance writer/ editor Alisa Kwitney was brought in to write much of the advertising and promotional copy, and Shelley Roeberg (formerly an editor at Comico) was hired on as an assistant editor. Though much of Berger’s team was in place from the beginning, she hired Lou Stathis (former columnist and editor for Heavy Metal) in 1993 and Axel Alonso in 1994. Berger’s plan came together in time to launch the Vertigo line at the beginning of 1993. “I think one of the reasons why Vertigo worked as well as it did in the beginning is that we really planned ahead,” Berger says. “I came back from maternity leave at the end of 1991. At that point, I really started back to work whole-hog in terms of talking to other editors in the group and writers and artists about where we wanted to go. My plan was to start with a core group of six Mature Readers titles and use that as the umbrella titles for the group. But each month, we wanted to launch two new series—one which would be creator-owned and one which would be a weird take on a DC character (either in monthlies or minis). We grew the line to about 12–15 titles per month. We’ve done that over the last 19 years of the line, depending on what the market could support and what we could generate. If anything, at the start of the line, I really wanted a place where writers and artists could create their own ideas and have a home for them. I always thought of the kooky stuff with the DC characters as really just a starting-off point.” Berger put together a strong team with a unified artistic vision, and it was clear that literary authorship was the primary focus of the Vertigo line. As Berger notes, “If there’s one thing that pre–Vertigo books did for comics in general, it’s that they really raised the profile of the writer—more, in some ways, than at any time since Stan Lee started Marvel. Comics has always been a visual medium, but with Vertigo books, the writers really raised the bar on the stories that were being done in comics. And as a result of that, people started following writers more than they were following artists.” The artists Vertigo artist said, employed were well-respected in the industry, but their work was largely detached from the early ’90s mainstream. While most of the traditional superhero books were gravitating toward frenetic, hyper-masculinized representation, Vertigo artists tended to draw more quiet and disturbing narratives that matched their writers’ scripts. “When I say that Vertigo has always been a writers’ imprint,” Berger notes, “I mean in many ways it is. But the artists are just as important. It’s a collaborative medium, and you wouldn’t have one without the other. The artists are a huge, integral part of what we do. We’ve always looked for artists who had a distinctive sense of style and didn’t have a traditional comics look to their work—people who tried a different approach to comics storytelling. We always stress that you have to understand what’s going on in the story, but we always emphasized experimental collaboration. Some artists were more design-oriented and wanted to take more chances with things like layout and such. Ted McKeever is a brilliant artist, but you couldn’t put Ted on a traditional superhero book. I mean, you could—he might have done some superhero work—but he’s not what you would look for if you were looking for a regular superhero book. A great thing about Vertigo is that we’ve been able to use artists who have different styles and bring different personalities to the work. You find more variety in the kinds of artists we bring to Vertigo books.”

Jill Thompson (Sandman, Black Orchid), Guy Davis (Sandman Mystery Theatre), Richard Case (Doom Patrol, Ghostdancing), Ted McKeever (The Extremist and Doom Patrol), Marc Hempel (Sandman), and Sean Phillips (Hellblazer and Kid Eternity) were all dynamic, fundamentally accomplished artists. But they were also quirky, distinctive, and offbeat at a time when comic art was becoming standardized in a diametrically opposite way.

THE BRIMSTONE BALLET DC wasn’t the only company preparing to launch a new line in 1992. The biggest comics industry news of 1992–1993 was the formation of Image Comics, a group of books created by a number of Marvel expatriates that rode (and eventually drove) the wave of superhero resurgence in the early ’90s. If the ’80s had seen a deconstruction of the superhero and the gradual dominance of alternative comics, the Image creators were determined to dramatically shift comics toward the Stallone/Schwarzenegger Hollywood action-hero aesthetic of the early ’80s. In 1991, a group of emerging artists approached Marvel Comics’ president and asked for more creative control over—and a share in the ownership and profits of—the properties they were driving to the top of sales charts. Todd McFarlane and Erik Larsen had led the resurgence of the Spider-Man franchise, while Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, and Marc Silvestri had driven the renascent popularity of Marvel’s X-books. When Marvel balked, these artists (including writer Chris Claremont and artists Jim Valentino and Whilce Portacio) left the company and joined together to establish a new company that would place greater emphasis on creative freedom and individual artistic ownership.

Touchmark Transplant Writer Peter Milligan and artist Duncan Fegredo’s Enigma was developed for Disney’s aborted Touchmark imprint but landed at Vertigo. Enigma #5 (July 1993) original cover art. TM & © DC Comics.

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Above all else, the focus of Image Comics was on dynamic, explosive, and supersized visual art. While McFarlane, Lee, and Liefeld all had distinctive characteristics as artists, they collectively shifted superhero art throughout the industry toward a more exaggerated, splashy pin-up style that dominated comic art throughout the ’90s. And it sold. Driven by first issues, foil-embossed and variant covers, and media hype—and further fueled by an influx of speculative buyers who saw comics as more of an investment than a creative medium—Image drove sales of individual issues into the millions. While industry journals such as Wizard were riding the wave of hype and blind enthusiasm, critical mainstays such as The Comics Journal were decrying the fast-food quality of Image’s style and warning industry professionals that this was not a sustainable way to operate an industry. The emperor had no clothes, and the impotent wizard was hiding right behind the curtain. In retrospect, there are some cursory similarities between the creation of Image and Vertigo—especially in their mutual progression toward creator ownership. But in practice, the two companies couldn’t have been more different. “Perfect timing, right?” Berger laughs. “Image was totally an artist-driven line. I don’t think I even thought about it at the time. I guess we were developing our stuff when Image was developing theirs, but I honestly don’t think either of us knew what the other was doing. I didn’t know what they were doing, but it didn’t really matter because we were on two totally different paths. But it was a really great time for comics.” Grant Morrison sees the emergence of Image as an expected rejection of many of the trends that had dominated the ’80s. In his recent book Supergods, Morrison writes on page 241 that “The art school invasion defined one strand of superhero development, which mostly refined itself in the Vertigo imprint established at DC. Vertigo books were owned by their creators, and there was no bar on content. In celebration of the new latitude, my comic The Invisibles opened with a character screaming ‘F******ck!’ Karen Berger had established herself as the go-to girl for securing British talent. She seemed to genuinely like us, and the respect was mutual. She’d been rewarded with her own imprint where new content and more contemporary ideas could be generated away from the DC universe, with its monolithic continuity and its caped characters dating back to times and attitudes that barely anyone left alive could recall or comprehend. Fantasy, sci-fi, Gothic, and political were in, superheroes

Thrice As Nice Duncan Fegredo’s painted cover(s) for 1991’s Kid Eternity. This horizontal painting was segmented into three images for each of the miniseries’ covers. TM & © DC Comics.

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were out—in a moment equivalent to the ‘weird’ comics boom of the early seventies or the blossoming of EC in the fifties. “After a decade in the hands of the writers,” Morrison continues, “it was time for comic-book artists to remind the world who really made the rules in this ‘visual medium,’ as it was so often described whenever we writers got too big for our brogues…. While the Brits remained foolishly intent on creating comic stories worthy of review alongside the latest novels in the Guardian literary section, a group of young American artists were preparing undeniable proof that comics would do much better business if they just looked cool and stopped trying to be so g*ddamned clever. At the time, it was a dreadful setback for the idea of ‘grown-up’ superhero comics. In hindsight, it was America’s inevitable reaction to Watchmen, and the only response that could possibly be effective: F*ck realism, we just want our superheroes to look cool and kick ten thousand kinds of ass” (Supergods p. 242–3).

GROWTH PATTERNS Despite its sharp divergence from mainstream comic-book material (or perhaps because of it), Vertigo fared well in its first year. This was still a time in which people were actually buying a lot of comics, and Vertigo was the beneficiary of a diverse readership that was willing to try new things. One of the biggest factors in Vertigo’s early success was the development of the company’s brand identity. While ideas and content were crucial to keeping existing readers on board, marketing and design sensibilities were instrumental in encouraging potential readers to sample new material. Many previous alternative presses and imprints (Eclipse, Epic, Piranha Press, etc.) had established reputations for taking risks and developing new talent, but they lacked a unified look and artistic cohesion. Berger was not going to make the same mistake with Vertigo. From the beginning, she sought to define Vertigo not just by the quality of its writing and art, but also by its visual presentation. She enlisted graphic designer (and husband) Richard Bruning to design both the Vertigo logo and the distinctive thin “Vertigo bar” that ran along the left side of all the imprint’s books. The Vertigo bar was initially both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, the sleek design integrated all the books in the Vertigo stable, making it easy to recognize the books quickly and distinguish them from the dozens of other titles that were flooding store shelves at the time. On the other hand,

the Vertigo bar was a bit of an imposition on the art that graced the cover. Adhering to the Julie Schwartz rule that covers had to immediately capture the imaginations of readers, Berger had always hired cover artists whose work provided a visceral visual pop. Dave McKean’s Sandman covers, Brian Bolland’s Animal Man covers, Simon Bisley’s Doom Patrol covers, etc. had always stood out as carefully crafted announcements that the contents behind the covers carried a certain amount of highbrow heft. While not as kinetic as the covers of the Schwartz era, Vertigo covers were no less striking. They were more at home in the realm of contemporary fine arts than in the pop art of the ’60s and ’70s, but this too was an important announcement about the intents of the Vertigo line in the comics market. These intentions weren’t confined just to the covers of Vertigo books. Everything about the Vertigo launch was well planned, coordinated, and consistent. If the imprint was the new home of the edgy, the risky, and the experimental, then the advertising had to convey that message. To this end, Berger’s creative team (notably Tom Peyer and Alisa Kwitney) wrote copy for house ads that reflected Vertigo’s overall mission and aesthetic. “Get Anxious!” “We’re Going to Knock You Off Balance. Turn You Upside Down. Push You Over the Edge.” “Unhinge the Door to Normality. Reach Escape Velocity. Enter a Strange and Skewed Reality. Each Month Experience Vertigo.” “Reach Beyond the Natural World. See Things Through a Different Light.” “Ideas in Motion Stay in Motion.” One of the most effective ads from 1993 took direct aim at the speculator/collector culture that was driving the sales bubble of the early ’90s: “Collect Experiences. Speculate on Ideas.” All of these advertisements suggested that Vertigo was once again pushing the limits of what comic-book readers expected. The imprint was trying to strike a difficult balance: pointing out how different its books were from traditional mainstream comics while creating a cohesive idea of what the company was trying to do. If these books were so different from other comics, what made them similar enough to each other to exist under the same umbrella? In 1994, the editors began to convey the Vertigo sensibility through ads that were not exactly ads—things like “Sometimes … like really late at night, when it’s shadowy and quiet and I’ve gone at least one hour beyond the remotest possibility of sleep, I feel an otherness creep over me, and my thoughts seem to fly right out of my head.” There was an art-house, open-mike poetic quality to Vertigo’s early identity that appealed especially to college kids and indie-art communities—people who inhabited the fringes of mainstream popular culture. For a company backed by both Warner Bros. and DC Comics, this was to some extent an audacious and tenuous territory to claim. But it was also territory that had actually existed within DC for quite some time. Berger was consolidating and articulating the experimental undercurrents that had flowed through DC’s brand since the early ’70s. The main difference now was that Vertigo was openly, directly appealing to people who had always appreciated DC’s eccentric and subversive output. The sense of community to which Vertigo appealed was certainly not limited to marketing and design. One of the most distinctive aspects of the pre–Vertigo books had always been their letter columns. The letters pages from books like Sandman, Swamp Thing, and Hellblazer had long been a place where readers of both like and divergent minds gathered to discuss politics, theology, sexuality, and art. Many of the people who

read Sandman were aspiring writers themselves, and a number of the letter columns were dominated by poetry submitted by readers. When Grant Morrison launched The Invisibles and Garth Ennis began Preacher, the letter column became even more personalized and communal. The writers answered correspondence themselves and entire columns were occasionally devoted to reflections and editorials written by the books’ authors. Especially memorable is Morrison’s infamous “Sigil” column in The Invisibles #16. “I think that we encouraged the writers to take full possession of their work,” Berger reflects. “Especially when we began pushing toward creator-owned work. And I think that involvement and that dedication from the writers—you could really feel that connection in the letter columns.”

Not Your Father’s DP Writer Grant Morrison took the “World’s Strangest Heroes” of the Silver Age and made them even stranger— and as seen here, he was often abetted by cutting-edge cover artist Simon Bisley. Original cover art to Doom Patrol #35 (Aug. 1990), courtesy of Heritage (www.ha.com).

STRANGE FRUIT Vertigo spent its first year generating an impressive, consistent volume of creative material and building a sense of community. It moved toward creator ownership, but it didn’t abandon its origins in the DC Universe. In fact, its first sub-imprint—Vertigo Visions—was devoted to contemporary re-treatments of obscure DC characters Jenette Kahn Issue

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some great stories there, but it didn’t work out all that well. But at Vertigo, crossovers were never really much of an issue. Crossovers were very much a strong identifier of what you would do in regular mainstream superhero comics. And we wanted to be as far away from that as possible, because we were trying to chart our own course. It was understood that Vertigo was able to play around with a lot of DC’s supernatural characters. We kind of had first dibs on a lot of those characters. But there weren’t that many of them, to be honest. We took the ones that made sense for us, and the DC Universe took the ones that made sense for them. There was some overlap, but not really much.” Vertigo’s first few years may have been spent trying to establish its identity— figuring out what worked and what didn’t work in a rapidly morphing industry. But the company’s creators were generally ecstatic about their opportunity to work it all out. Halfway through Vertigo’s first year, Stuart Moore wrote that “one of the great things about VERTIGO, to me, is that we can experiment a little with genres, and provide a bridge between mainstream comics and the anything-goes world of small-circulation independent comics. While the roots of the VERTIGO line are in horror and super-hero comics, the nature of what we’re doing—and the great reception we’ve received so far from the comics-buying public—allows us to play around a little with what you may be used to seeing in four colors between slick covers” (“On the Ledge,” June 1993). Two years later, Jamie Delano wrote a column suggesting that the mid-’90s were a time of adolescent freedom in the comics industry— a time of growing up and expanding, but doing so with uncertainty and awkwardness: “So, we’ve seized the mike in our sweaty hands, thrust our zit-pocked, endearingly snarling faces into the spotlight … and now we have to speak: coherently: dramatically: hilariously: perceptively: terrifyingly—prosaically, or poetically; sincerely or cynically, according to our lights—to tens of thousands of intelligent, critical bastards who’ve paid scarce dollars to hear us. That’s what VERTIGO (there, I said it…) means to me—standing on the edge of that stage, nervous soup of garbled ideas slopping in my gut, wondering if quicksilver eloquence will dance from my parched tongue, or if I’ll just collapse to my knees and bark like a f*ckin’ dog” (“On the Ledge,” Jan. 1995). For other creators, Vertigo was first and foremost the continuation of a party that had begun several years earlier. “Call me superficial if you must,” wrote Grant Morrison, “but one of the things I like most about the Vertigo books is that, by and large, they’re written and drawn by people who look good. In a world devoid of meaningful content, I value style above all else and Vertigo, if it is anything, is surely the native land of comic-book style. You won’t find any sartorial catastrophes in our neck of the world. No sir. We got no time for baseball caps and Next Gen T-shirts. Here at Vertigo you’ll find instead a gabbling gaggle of strutting peacocks who know how to dance; people who regularly and fearlessly venture to the extremities of human endeavor by travelling the world, ingesting strange drugs and indulging in extravagant sexual practices and dangerous sporting activities. People, in short, who are interested in Living Life and, most important, in bringing back their experiences in the form of fresh ideas to create the coolest comic books for the coolest readers. Simple” (“On the Ledge,” July 1994).

The Sandman Legacy Continues A 1992 pen-and-ink rendering of the Golden Age Sandman by Guy Davis, who drew Vertigo’s Sandman Mystery Theatre, written by Matt Wagner. Courtesy of Heritage. TM & © DC Comics.

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such as the Geek, Prez, Phantom Stranger, Dr. Occult, Tomahawk, and Dr. Thirteen. It was also evident from characters’ guest-spots in each other’s books (such as Constantine’s appearances in Shade #42–44 and in Swamp Thing) that the characters inhabited the same fictional space. Toward the end of 1993, Vertigo organized a crossover event that further gathered the former DC characters together into the same world. The Children’s Crusade, an “Annual Event” bookended by two Neil Gaiman–penned specials, pulled together characters from Black Orchid, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol, and Books of Magic. Not everyone on the Vertigo team was a fan of such events. “Crossovers—I hate ’em,” Lou Stathis wrote in an “On the Ledge” column in October 1993. “As a reader, they always struck me as a crass manipulation of continuity-hooked juveniles, the equivalent of telling some helpless junkie that to get his next high he’ll have to cop this totally different but equally additive drug. And as an editor, I felt they just fueled the nightmare of inconsistency, and undertaking such a trial was about as smart as inviting some drooling vampire into your bedroom for a midnight snack. “So, of course, what gets dumped into my lap the minute I arrive here at Vertigo Central, eager to take up my new duties as an editor of not-at-all-crass adult comics? Yep, you guessed it, a crossover: The Children’s Crusade. (Make that a VERTIGO EVENT, as using the word ‘crossover’ around here is strictly verboten.)” Part of Vertigo’s first year was spent figuring out what the editorial team really wanted the imprint to be—what were acceptable models that they could reasonably appropriate from traditional comics and what they needed to abandon completely. One of the principal questions many longtime DC readers asked after Vertigo’s launch was whether there would be any interplay between the established DC Universe and the new Vertigo universe. “We didn’t ever really consider that we had a ‘universe,’” Berger says. “We never really called ourselves the Vertigo Universe. I think other people did, but we never really did internally. We tried at one point to do a crossover with the titles at the beginning, and it just didn’t really work out. The Children’s Crusade. It was well-intended and there were

WAVELENGTH The supernatural/dark fantasy books originally fixed in the DC Universe served as both anchors and flagships when Vertigo began, and Vertigo remained committed to generating new content featuring familiar characters (notably in Sandman Mystery Theatre, Jonah Hex, and American Freak: A Tale of the Un-Men). But as Vertigo continued to evolve, the company experienced its greatest successes when it branched out beyond its origins. Some of the most memorable and wellreviewed books in its first few years were original creator-owned properties such as Enigma (Milligan and Fegredo), The Extremist (Milligan and McKeever), The Invisibles, and Preacher. The company also began re-publishing work from the ’80s and early ’90s that had been influential on a number of its readers and writers. Moonshadow; Blood: A Tale; Tell Me, Dark; and Breathtaker had all been published previously by a variety of companies, but the wider distribution and marketing offered by Vertigo meant that the books received a larger readership that was better able to appreciate the books and place them in a creative context. Much like Eclipse and Epic had before it, Vertigo also branched out into original graphic novels (The Mystery Play, Rogan Gosh, Heart of the Beast, and Mr. Punch). Vertigo also ventured into the world of merchandise (Death and Sandman Posters, the Vertigo Tarot Set, Vamps tattoos, Skybox trading cards, and eventually DC Direct action figures), but the primary focus of the company continued to remain on its creative content. Even after the comics industry experienced a major contraction in 1994, Vertigo continued to develop new ongoing series and sub-imprints. Some of these imprints, such as Vertigo Voices (Face, The Eaters, Tainted, and Kill Your Boyfriend), featured some of the strongest short-form the company has ever produced. Some, such as Vertigo Vérité, Vertigo Pop!, and V2K, were less well-received. “The way the Vertigo Voices came about,” Berger explains, “was that we had these one-shots that Art Young— an editor in the early days of Vertigo—was working on with Pete and Jamie and Grant. And I think Paul Levitz, who was publisher, said, ‘Well, you can’t really put out just a one-shot. It’s just a one-shot. How are you going to sell it?’ So he might have been the one who said,

‘Why don’t you come up with something that ties them together?’ I don’t really remember the details, but I do remember that he suggested we do them as a group. “We found that the sub-imprints didn’t do as well as books that launched under the straight Vertigo umbrella. We realized that we didn’t really need a sub-imprint. I think with Vérité, we were really just trying to do something that had no magical, supernatural, or horror elements. They were just weird stories about the everyday. We realized, when we looked at our monthly books, that so many of them were stories that were not utilizing a horror backdrop or a genre backdrop that we didn’t really need the sub-imprint to tell the types of stories that we were telling. We also tried, from a marketing standpoint, to look for a way to say, ‘Hey, we’re trying something new.’” Trying something new has been a defining characteristic of Berger’s entire career, and it’s a characteristic that she’s embedded in Vertigo for the last 19 years. Many of the company’s mainstays drew to a close in the mid-’90s (Doom Patrol and Animal Man in 1995; Sandman, Swamp Thing, and Shade in 1996), but a number of other ongoing series (including Warren Ellis’ Transmetropolitan) emerged to take their place. Although Sandman Mystery Theatre, Invisibles, Preacher, and Books of Magic drew to a close as the ’90s ended and the 2000s began, Vertigo has continued to reinvent itself every few years and to introduce ongoing series that have redefined the company. Brian Azzarello and Eduardo Risso’s 100 Bullets launched in 1999, Fables and Y: The Last Man both started in 2002, DMZ began in 2005, and Scalped and Northlanders launched in 2007. The only glaring exception to the Ezra Poundian “Make it New” mantra that has guided Vertigo through the last two decades is its reliance (perhaps overreliance) on Sandman. Berger notes that “based on both sales and reputation, The Sandman is probably Vertigo’s most successful title.” After the book ended (per Gaiman’s request) in 1996, Vertigo continued to produce books and merchandise that tapped into Sandman’s enduring marketability. The Sandman: Dust Covers, The Sandman Companion, Sandman posters, watches, and bookends, the ongoing series The Dreaming, and more than a dozen “Sandman Presents” minis and one-shots all

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The Gang’s All Here Brian Bolland’s wraparound cover art for Vertigo: Winter’s Edge #1 (Jan. 1998), depicting many of the imprint’s characters. TM & © DC Comics.

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Sweet Dreams A Tony Harris painting from 1994’s The Sandman: Gallery of Dreams. Courtesy of Heritage.

sought to fill the void of (and capitalize on) Vertigo’s most lucrative property. While the flood of Sandman-related books could be dismissed as derivative, some of the works that emerged from this period (especially Mike Carey’s ongoing Lucifer series) stood as strong independent works that eventually carved out critical reputations of their own. It would be easy to make the argument that the main reason Vertigo survived the industry collapse of the mid-’90s is that it had the backing of a larger corporate engine. Vertigo is owned by DC Comics, which in turn is owned by Warner Bros. But this argument dismisses the quality and innovation that have been the hallmarks of Vertigo since its inception. Vertigo’s critical and commercial misses are at least as prevalent as its hits. For every Sandman, Invisibles, and 100 Bullets, there are dozens of titles that never quite found an audience for one reason or another. But this doesn’t mean that Berger and her team haven’t tried to keep Vertigo fresh and relevant. While other DC imprints (Paradox Press and Helix) have come and gone and other comics companies have folded in the face of crushing market forces, Vertigo has continued to build on the trust it established among its readership and its creators in the early ’90s. After two decades of publication, Vertigo has to be considered a success story in the alternative comics field. According to Berger, there are clear reasons for Vertigo’s longevity: “It’s a couple of things. We’re known for producing work by writers who have become sort of icons in comics—and even outside of comics, if you look as someone like Neil Gaiman and his success. And the writers who started Vertigo still continue to be on my short list of the greatest writers still working in comics. The books that they’ve worked on—Sandman and Preacher and Invisibles and Hellblazer and Y: The Last Man and Fables—have become perennials. Vertigo’s biggest success story as a publisher is that we also became a book publisher, as opposed to just a periodical 74 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

publisher. Our books live on in collections that constantly pull in new readers and new generations. You can go and pick up a book, and it’s still in print, and we’re constantly going back to press on so many of these books. We’ve become a healthy backlist publisher, and in many ways our backlist has become our frontlist. ‘New classics’ always sounds like an old term, but our books really have become touchpoints for people who really want to read cool, smart, out-there, challenging comics. I think that’s one of the reasons why Vertigo has become—and remains—as successful as it is. “I think the other reason is that we’re always looking to bring in new writers and artists. People will rattle off the names of writers who come out of Vertigo and still write for Vertigo or have gone off to work for Marvel or other companies or to self-publish. But if you look at the track record of writers who started their careers here, it’s pretty incredible. I don’t mean to sound cocky about this, but it’s a really long list. If you look at Marvel’s top writers— Ed Brubaker, Mark Millar, Jason Aaron— a lot of those guys got their start here. I think it’s a testament to the editors here, too. We’re always looking to bring in and to train new talent. The exciting thing about comics is that it’s such a fresh and raw medium, and takes a relatively quick amount of time to do a comic as opposed to, say, a film. You have a better shot of getting your foot in the door at a comics company. The emerging talent thing has always been prominent in my viewpoint of what comics should be about. People like Scott Snyder and Jeff Lemire and G. Willow Wilson—we’re always trying to bring in new people and get them started.” After nearly two full decades of publication, Vertigo continues to renovate itself and adapt to new market realities. Some things change, while others remain the same. In the case of Vertigo, these things always seem to be intermingled. When DC launched its “New 52” initiative in 2011, many of Vertigo’s DC-based characters were pulled back into the DC Universe proper. Swamp Thing and Animal Man received their own titles again, while Shade and Madame Xanadu were pulled into the new Justice League Dark. John Constantine, Vertigo’s most enduring mainstay, inhabits a nebulous place between the two lines. Despite losing the supernatural characters that had anchored the line during its 1993 launch, Vertigo is not particularly worse off. Recent critical successes The Unwritten, Sweet Tooth, Daytripper, and American Vampire reflect the diversity and breadth of what the company has become, and Vertigo debuting a number of additional new titles in 2012 as others draw to a close. Despite the challenges of publishing in such an uncertain and unpredictable industry, Vertigo remains a touchstone for creative invention and renewal. ALEX BONEY is a freelance writer and English teacher currently living near Kansas City, Missouri. His graduate work in English at the Ohio State University explored the connection between superhero comics and modernist art and literature. He regularly contributes articles to BACK ISSUE magazine and presents work at the Comic Arts Conference in San Diego. While most of Alex’s academic and professional work is focused on 1930s and ’40s superheroes, he remains partial to the Question, Power Girl, and the Martian Manhunter.

Tied to His Job

An anniversary tribute to DC Comics’ Bob Wayne, done a few years back by cartoonist Sam Viviano. Courtesy of Bob Wayne. (inset) Bob Wayne, ca. 1980, at his original comic shop, Fantastic Worlds. Photo from Bob’s archives.

Brett Weiss

Bob Wayne has been a professional in the comics industry since 1976, when his first story was published in issue #5 of Charlton’s Scary Tales. Prior to that, beginning in 1974, he published Tales from Texas, the official fanzine of the Dallas Area Science Fiction Society. Tales from Texas ran for 19 issues and featured contributions from such luminaries as Roy Thomas, Lewis Shiner, Buddy Saunders, Tony Isabella, Joe Staton, and Christopher Lee (the latter via a lengthy interview). In 1980, Wayne opened the first of several Fantastic Worlds retail stores, a Fort Worth-based chain noted for hosting big-name comic-book creators and science-fiction authors, including Chris Claremont and Douglas Adams. In 1987, Wayne joined the staff of DC Comics, where he co-wrote (with Lewis Shiner) the eight-issue miniseries, Time Masters (1990). Currently, Wayne is DC’s vice president of sales. – Brett Weiss BRETT WEISS: Do you remember your first comic book? What was it, and where did you get it? BOB WAYNE: My paternal grandfather was a bus driver in the late 1950s. He used to go through the bus after his shift, and if anyone had left behind a comic book, he picked it up and brought it to me. And I

wanted the Superman titles. I couldn’t comprehend why anyone would abandon their comics—how could you not want to re-read them? I suspect that is the start of why I chose to keep and collect comics. My mother would read the comics to me, which soon lead to her teaching me to read them myself. I don’t remember which issue of which Superman title was the first comic book that I read, but I remember the first one that I bought with my own money: Superman #137 (cover-dated May 1960), which I saw on a convenience store spinner rack in Galveston, Texas. (I keep a copy in my office at DC Comics.) WEISS: Times have changed to some degree, but during the ’60s, ’70s, and even the ’80s, telling someone in school that you read comics was a good way to get your head flushed down the toilet. Did you have any comic-book reading friends in junior high or high school, or did you keep the hobby to yourself? WAYNE: I had friends in school that also read comics, but none that read as many as I did. Never tried to keep it a secret. The debut of the Batman television series was well timed for me! I bought one of my friends’ Marvel collection when I was in the seventh grade. A couple of years later I met Paul McSpadden, the first person I knew who had more comics than I did, and the first person I met who knew more Jenette Kahn Issue

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Where’s Chucky? (left) Hand-colored production art to the Steve Ditko-drawn cover of Charlton Comics’ Scary Tales #5 (Apr. 1976), featuring (right) “Child’s Play,” co-written by Wayne and drawn by Sururi Gumen. Art courtesy of Heritage Comics Auctions. © 1976 Charlton Comics.

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WAYNE: I thought about trying to be a fulltime writer several times, but I never made the leap. My first comics work was a story called “Child’s Play” that was published in Charlton’s Scary Tales #5 in 1976, co-written with Tim King, one of my friends from high school. I did some book reviews and articles over the years. I co-wrote Time Masters with Lewis Shiner, drawn by Art Thibert and Jose Marzan, Jr. Work on that started before I went on staff at DC Comics in August of 1987. After I went on staff, I wrote a Time Masters tie-in Cave Carson story for Secret Origins #43, drawn by Timothy Truman. WEISS: When did you go from fan to retailer? Did you set up at shows prior to opening Fantastic Worlds? WAYNE: I set up at conventions in Texas and Oklahoma, selling comics and books starting in 1974. I was Account #40 with Phil Seuling’s Seagate Distributors. WEISS: What year did the first Fantastic Worlds open? WAYNE: 1980, on Camp Bowie Boulevard in Fort Worth, Texas. WEISS: Talk a little bit about that first store and what it took to open it. Did you carry new comics as well as back issues? New and used books? What other products did your store sell? WAYNE: New Comics. Back-issue comics. New science-fiction and fantasy books. UK books. Used books. Some games, some Japanese toys. WEISS: My brother-in-law, Michael Davis (no relation to the comic-book artist), worked for Fantastic Worlds during its early years. He once told me you kept a job at Safeway to make ends meet while Fantastic Worlds was getting off the ground. When were you able to quit your grocery store job and become a fulltime retailer? WAYNE: After about 18 months, I made the move. WEISS: Did you enjoy working in the store and meeting and greeting customers, or did you prefer to stay behind the scenes and handle the business stuff?

about them than I did. (In recent years, Paul has been the administrator for the Harvey Awards, and I had the opportunity to thank him for his kindness to me at the 2009 Harveys.) WEISS: When did you go from mere comic-book reader to full-fledged fan? Was there a specific comic-book series or character that put you over the top in terms of your love for the medium? WAYNE: Probably Detective Comics #327, the first “New Look” Batman issue. That was the first time I remember noticing a major change in a series, and the first time I started actively seeking out more comics edited by Julie Schwartz. I was already a fan of the Justice League and the Legion of Super-Heroes, but the changes in the “New Look” Batman were so dramatic compared to the prior issues. WEISS: Did you correspond with fellow collectors across the country? Did names like Jerry Bails, Bart Bush, Bill Schelly, Roy Thomas, and Don and Maggie Thompson mean anything to you? WAYNE: I didn’t correspond with anyone until I was in college. I only knew the local guys. I knew of fans from the letters columns in some of the titles, but I wrote very few letters. WEISS: What was your first convention? WAYNE: The first convention I attended was SouthwesternCon in the Hotel Southland, Dallas, June 21–23, 1968. I took a bus over from Fort Worth on the Saturday of June 22nd. I still have my convention ticket. I have two strong memories: I met Fritz Leiber, and I walked right by a guy trying to sell a suitcase full of ECs out in the hallway. In 1968, I had never heard of EC. (Five years later, I was watching a 3D movie at a Dallas convention while sitting next to Bill Gaines, so I did figure that out.) WEISS: You contributed to a number of fanzines during the late ’60s and early ’70s. What were some of the titles, and will you relate some of your experiences writing for amateur publications? WAYNE: I really didn’t do all that much fanzine writing except for the issues of Tales from Texas that Lewis Shiner and I produced that grew out of the Dallas Area Science Fantasy Society. Every couple of years someone shows up with a batch of them in San Diego, and I have to bribe them to keep those off the Internet. (Yes, I still have a set.) WEISS: Did you ever aspire to become a full-time professional writer? I know you co-wrote Time Masters for DC.

A Super Reminder Wayne in his DC office in 2008. On his desk is a copy of the first comic book he purchased on his own, Superman #137. (inset) A closer look Superman #137 (not Bob’s actual copy). Cover by Curt Swan and Stan Kaye. TM & © DC Comics.

WAYNE: Both. But looking back on those years now, I definitely miss greeting customers and helping them find something new a lot more than anything else! WEISS: Writer James Reasoner and others have referred to Fantastic Worlds as an amazing place in terms of author signings and guest appearances. Do any particular guests or anecdotes regarding said guests stand out in your memory? WAYNE: I have many wonderful memories of the author signings and guest appearances at Fantastic Worlds. My friend Lewis Shiner helped me build the bookshelves for the first store, so it was great when we did a signing for Lew when his first novel Frontera was published. A lot of my other Texas friends and acquaintances did signings, including Geo. W. Proctor, Howard Waldrop, Joe R. Lansdale, James and Livia Reasoner, Neal Barrett, Jr., Kerry Gammill, Roger A. Stine, Michael H. Price, Bruce Sterling, Warren Norwood, Steve Jackson … I’m sure I’m leaving someone out, and I’m sure someone will let me know. Part of the ritual of a Fantastic Worlds guest appearance was a big dinner at Joe T Garcia’s Mexican Restaurant in Fort Worth. Howard Chaykin and I have a continuing dialogue about Joe T’s that began with his American Flagg! signing. We had dinner there again in early 2009. Another Joe T’s memory was when Sergio Aragonés was in for Groo the Wanderer. Sergio charmed everyone in the restaurant, sketching for everyone. Douglas Adams did a signing for the US publication of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Tim Truman. George RR Martin. Chris Claremont. Dave Cockrum. Carole Nelson Douglas. Jane Yolen. Stephen R. Donaldson. Ed Bryant. Robert E. Vardeman. Jerry Ordway. Mike Grell. Paul Smith. Steve Rude. John Ostrander. P. Craig Russell. Michael T. Gilbert. Keith Giffen. Nina Romberg. Dean Anderson. Mike McQuay. John Steakley. Reverend Ivan Stang of the Church of the SubGenius. Again, I’m sure I’m leaving someone out, and I’m sure someone will let me know. My friend Pierce Watters brought Ian Ballantine by the store one day—while I wasn’t there. That I remember!

WEISS: During Fantastic Worlds’ heyday, there was quite a rivalry between your store and Lone Star Comics. Was it a friendly rivalry? Talk a little bit about your relationship (past and present) with Lone Star owner Buddy Saunders. WAYNE: Buddy and I used to frequent some of the same used bookstores, looking for back-issue comics, pulps, and SF books. My maternal grandmother would sometimes drive me on Saturdays so I could make my collecting rounds. And yes, I was a bit competitive: We had to get to the used bookstores early in the day, otherwise I’d hear something from the clerk like, “Oh, we got a bunch of those in here yesterday. That nice Buddy was here this morning and bought all of them.” Buddy and I talked over boxes of back issues at a Dallas convention early in 2009. I have a lot of respect for Buddy and Judy [Buddy’s wife] and the business they’ve built. WEISS: What about other comic-book store owners in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? Did you know Remember When owner Larry Herndon? What about Tanner Miles? He had a store near your first location in Fort Worth, correct? WAYNE: I knew both Larry and Tanner. Their style of retailing was different than mine, but they were both pioneers in the Dallas/Fort Worth area who opened retail stores long before I did. WEISS: When did Fantastic Worlds grow from one store to two? Was there ever a third location? Describe, if you would, the expansion process. WAYNE: There were eventually several Fantastic Worlds locations. If I could explain the expansion process, perhaps I’d still be in retail. WEISS: When did you sell Fantastic Worlds to go work for DC Comics? What made you want to give up retailing? WAYNE: 1987. Remember that question about the expansion process? WEISS: How did you get the job at DC? Who interviewed you for the position? Who was the publisher at the time? WAYNE: Jenette Kahn was DC’s president. I interviewed with Paul Levitz and Bruce Bristow. They asked me to make a list of what I thought DC should be doing with comic-book specialty retailers. The list became much of my job description. (If I had realized that, I would have made a shorter list!) WEISS: Over the years, I’m sure you’ve met plenty of DC icons, such as Julius Schwartz and Carmine Infantino. Who were you most impressed with in the early days of your tenure at DC, and can you share any anecdotes regarding said editors, creators, etc. WAYNE: Julie Schwartz. Julie had photos in his office. One of Julie’s tests was that he would point to a photo from an early SF gathering and ask you to identify the people in the photo. I indentified everyone. From that point on, Julie would introduce me to people in the office or at conventions that he thought I’d like to meet. Folks like Ray Bradbury, Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, Bob Kane, Steve Ditko, Murphy Anderson, and Robert Bloch. I’m glad I passed the test! WEISS: Talk a little bit about working for DC Comics. What are your day-to-day duties? WAYNE: I’m the VP-Sales. My group works to sell comics, books, and DC Direct products to comic-book specialty retailers worldwide via Diamond, and to book trade retailers via Random House. Recently we started working on the traditional newsstand part of the business. WEISS: You seem to have a good rapport with DC co-publisher Dan DiDio—you guys are a hoot at conventions. Talk about working the convention circuit. What do you enjoy and not enjoy about comic cons? WAYNE: Conventions are a great opportunity to get direct feedback from our readers and retailers. And convention feedback tends to be much more civil than some of the feedback on the Internet! Full-time freelancer BRETT WEISS is the author of Filtered Future, The Land of Oz and Other Dark Tales of Science Fiction and Horror (2012, Amazon Kindle).

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The passing of artist Eduardo Barreto (1954–2011) at a mere 57 years of age leaves me with two unanswered Why?s. Why does death far too often claim people in their prime? Why wasn’t this extraordinary artist a fan favorite? Barreto’s art caught my eye when it began to appear in Superman and Action Comics during the twilight of Julius Schwartz’s editorial career, and on the unenviable and daunting assignment of following the runs of George Pérez and José Luis García-López on The New Teen Titans. His drawings were detailed but not distractingly so, his storytelling was captivating, and his women were graceful and lovely. Maybe you were a fan of his work on Atari Force, The Shadow Strikes!, Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography, Martian Manhunter, Cobb: Off the Leash, The Long Haul, or Judge Parker. Maybe you’re a fan of his kids, Diego and Andrea, who have followed in their father’s footsteps in comics. And maybe you’re like me, and are wondering… Why? Rest in peace, Eduardo. Thank you for the legacy you’ve left us, both in print and through your children.

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Michael Eury

Family Man, Fabulous Artist (opposite left) Photo of the artist and his wife, Carina Yaqueline Dominguez Barreto, courtesy of Beau Smith (who also contributed the photo of the Barretos on this page). (opposite main) This gripping cover to Superman #397 (July 1984) would make a DC disciple even out of the most loyal of Marvelites. (opposite background) Barreto made Raven quite fetching on the cover to New Teen Titans #39 (Jan. 1988). (this page main and background) Barreto’s rendition of the Amazon Princess, seen in the original art and printed forms of the cover for Wonder Woman #316 (June 1984). TM & © DC Comics.

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Send your comments to: Email: euryman@gmail.com (subject: BACK ISSUE) Postal mail: Michael Eury, Editor • BACK ISSUE 118 Edgewood Ave. NE • Concord, NC 28025

Find BACK ISSUE on

TRICK OR TREAT! I was originally going to start this letter with a snide comment about the Halloween issue of BACK ISSUE showing up in November (even the annual Simpsons’ Treehouse of Horror episode managed to air the day before October 31 this year … the first time in half a decade, I think!), but then yesterday I looked at the Diamond Distributors website and saw that the next issue was due out next week and realized that I was in no position to criticize! BACK ISSUE #52 was another great issue. I was always a big fan of the horror hosts back in the day, indeed probably more in some ways than I was of the actual stories themselves (and I wasn’t the only one, what with DC’s Abel, caretaker of the House of Secrets, eventually joining the supporting cast of the humorous superhero series Blue Devil back in the ’80s and all). Thank you for the article on Black Orchid. I was always a big fan of her original incarnation, and I must admit I’ve never really forgiven Neil Gaiman (whose other work I greatly admire) for stripping her of her cool costume and aura of mystery and turning her into just some purple plant person. Thanks also for the look at the funnybook adventures of Scooby-Doo, especially the far-too-short interview with Dan Spiegle, who is one of my all-time favorite artists. Actually, to correct one small point in the article, he had ventured into cartoon territory before taking on the mysterysolving mutt when he lent his realistic style to the adventures of Mickey Mouse Super Secret Agent back in the ’60s. Speaking of Gold Key Comics, I hope you don’t mind if I suggest that for next year’s Halloween issue you devote some pages to their horror-oriented titles. I greatly enjoyed their licensed anthology series Boris Karloff Presents, Twilight Zone, and Ripley’s Believe It or Not (and how, oh, how could you have failed to mention the ghastly Grimm from Grimm’s Ghost Stories in your list of horror hosts, that spookiest of spooks who probably could only have materialized at the time from the one kids comics company that was not subject to the Comics Code?). 80 • BACK ISSUE • Jenette Kahn Issue

I also absolutely LOVED their Dark Shadows comic, even though due to ABC not being included as part of my local cable lineup I never got to see the original TV series when it was on the air (okay, there was that one very confusing episode I managed to catch on a summer vacation visit to my grandmother’s, where the by-then-former-reluctant-vampire Barnabas Collins was trying to psychically trace his missing girlfriend Dr. Julia Hoffman using an item of her clothing, not realizing that the version of the woman it belonged to was dead and she had been replaced with an exact duplicate from another dimension who was currently trapped in one of the many secret subterranean rooms at Collinswood manor … man, even today trying to keep track of all that makes my head hurt!). Still, the comic was great, the only serious supernatural series with ongoing characters available on the newsstands until the Code was changed later in the ’70s, and all with the glorious art of the unfortunately unrecognized genius Joe Certa, who co-created one of my all-time favorite superheroes J’onn J’onzz, Manhunter from Mars. Long before I found out his name, Certa was the first obscure artist I was able to recognize by his style, especially his unique transformation sequences, whether it was Barnabas turning into a bat and his cousin Quentin Collins into a werewolf or the Martian Manhunter turning into, well, just about anything. I also hope you might have room for Gold Key’s more humorous horrors. Growing up I was a big fan of their Little Monsters and that electrode-eared, flat-headed Frankensteinian family of friendly fiends with ’Orrible Orvie and Awful Annie and the creepy kidsloving parents Mildew and Demonica. I know they first premiered back in 1964 (nearly a year before the first episodes of The Munsters and Addams Family hit the airwaves!), but their book lasted well into the ’70s, which I think ought to allow them to squeak (or should that be “shriek”?) into your pages. – Jeff Taylor Actually, Jeff, it was a “Mystery Comics” issue and not technically a “Halloween” issue, but obviously it was intended for a pre–Halloween release (and was editorially submitted with ample time for such) but later delayed. Finding the right printer to affordably handle our new full-color format created snags with a few issues last year, but we’re on track now and hopefully will deliver each BI when it’s promised. 2012’s spooky issue—#60—will be themed “Halloween Heroes and Villains,” but maybe we’ll get around to Gold Key’s mystery comics in the future! Next issue: JLA in the Bronze Age! The Satellite Years, Justice League Detroit, “Pro2Pro” with GERRY CONWAY and DAN JURGENS on writing the JLA: Then and Now, the unofficial JLA/Avengers crossovers, the Injustice Gang, Marvel’s JLA, the Squadron Supreme—and a salute to DICK DILLIN, JLA artist extraordinaire. Also: An expanded “Back Talk” letters column, to make up for this issue’s one-pager. Featuring art by and/or commentary from RICH BUCKLER, STEVE ENGLEHART, RALPH MACCHIO, CHUCK PATTON, GEORGE PÉREZ, GEORGE TUSKA, and more, with an all-new JL Detroit cover by LUKE McDONNELL and BILL WRAY. Don’t ask—just BI it! See you in thirty! Michael Eury, editor

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In June: Modern Masters spotlights ERIC POWELL! ERIC POWELL is a sick, sick man. Sick... but brilliant. How else would he have been able to come up with a concept like THE GOON—a smarter-than-he-looks brute raised by carnies, who runs the city’s underworld while protecting it from being overrun by zombies? How could anyone not love that idea? Now’s your chance to take a look inside the sick mind of this Modern Master, courtesy of co-authors JORGE KHOURY and ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON. Through a career-spanning interview and heaps of fantastic artwork, including rare and unseen treasures from Powell’s personal files, this book documents his amazing career and details his creative process—it even includes a gallery of commissioned pieces in full-color. Experience the work and wonder of this master of modern comic art in MODERN MASTERS VOLUME 28: ERIC POWELL!

And in July: it’s MARIE SEVERIN, The Mirthful Mistress of Comics!

MARIE SEVERIN colored the legendary EC Comics line, and spent thirty years working for Marvel Comics, doing everything from production and coloring to penciling, inking, and art direction. She is renowned for her sense of humor, which earned her the nickname “Mirthful Marie” from Stan Lee. This loving tribute contains insights from her close friends and her brother JOHN SEVERIN, as well as STAN LEE, AL FELDSTEIN, ROY THOMAS, JOHN ROMITA, JACK DAVIS, JACK KAMEN, TONY ISABELLA, GENE COLAN, JIM MOONEY, JOE SINNOTT, MARK EVANIER, and others, plus extensive commentary by MARIE herself. Complementing the text are photographs, plus rare and unpublished artwork, including a color gallery, showing her mastery with a painter’s pallette!

(120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $15.95 • (Digital Edition) $4.95 ISBN: 9781605490410 • Ships June 2012

(176-page trade paperback with COLOR) $24.95 • (Digital Edition) $7.95 • ISBN: 9781605490427 • Ships July 2012

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