Jack Kirby Collector #35 by TwoMorrows Publishing

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NO. 35 SPRING 2002

BIGGER AND BETTER TWOMORROWS JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR

It’s the great Kirby

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Number 8, Summer 2002 • Hype and hullabaloo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom • Edited by Eric Nolen-Weathington

It’s Time to... Last year we brought you DRAW! and received an incredible response. Now we’re turning our attention to all of you writers out there! You know, an artist can show an editor his work and the editor can evaluate it virtually on the spot. But what qualities are necessary to sell writing? What are editors looking for? What skills are needed, and what other media can these skills be used in? This July, find out in WRITE NOW!, a new quarterly magazine edited by veteran Marvel Comics editor and writer DANNY FINGEROTH! It takes you behind the scenes, into both the creative and business processes that go into writing narrative fiction. Hear from pros ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DESK what it takes to write the stories that readers—and editors—want to read!

In the premiere issue, top professional writers discuss the practical aspects of their craft. You'll get tips and insights from interviews with: BRAIN MICHAEL BENDIS, the writer of Ultimate Spider-Man, Alias, Powers and so many more; JOE QUESADA, editor in chief of Marvel Comics, and co-writer of Ash and writer of Iron Man—he's the guy setting the writing standards at the House of Ideas today; JOSS WHEDON, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the comic Fray, and the upcoming Firefly TV series; J.M. DeMATTEIS, writer of SpiderMan, the Spectre, Man-Thing and Moonshadow; and to get an artist’s perspective on comics scripts, MARK BAGLEY, penciler of Ultimate Spider-Man, New Warriors and Amazing Spider-Man. Plus there’s an interview with STAN (THE MAN) LEE! ('Nuff said.)

The VIPs of POV TwoMorrows is proud to present COMIC BOOKS AND OTHER NECESSITIES OF LIFE, a trade paperback collection of MARK EVANIER’s POV columns! It includes Mark’s best essays and commentaries, many NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED, about the state of the art form (as only he can convey it), the industry’s LEADING PRACTITIONERS (including Jack Kirby and Carl Barks), CONVENTIONGOING, and Mark’s old COMIC BOOK CLUB (with unforgettable anecdotes)! Featuring a new cover and interior illustrations by Mark’s frequent partner, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, this 200-page trade paperback ships in July!

CBA Sold-Out No More!

Find out how their better halves live! Will Eisner does what? Dave Sim is really like that? This August, see what its been like living with comic book creators over the past 60 years, with the people who know them best! This trade paperback explores the lives of the partners and wives of WILL EISNER, ALAN MOORE, STAN LEE, JOE KUBERT, HARVEY KURTZMAN, JOHN ROMITA, GENE COLAN, DAN DECARLO, ARCHIE GOODWIN, and more! In addition to sharing memories and anecdotes you’ll find nowhere else, their better halves have opened up private files to unearth personal photos, momentos, and never-before-seen art by the top creators in comics!

Can’t find those CBA back issues you’re missing? The search is over! In June, simply pick up the COMIC BOOK ARTIST COLLECTION, VOLUME 2! It reprints the sold-out CBA #5 (’70s DC) and #6 (’70s Marvel) and includes over 20 NEW PAGES spotlighting STEVE ENGLEHART and MARSHALL ROGERS’ Batman work, plus DC’s ultra-rare CANCELLED COMIC CAVALCADE! Also included are interviews with and unpublished art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, NEAL ADAMS, JOHN ROMITA SR., and more!

Designing? Buy the book! When should you tilt or overlap a comics panel? What’s the best way to divide a page to convey motion, time, action, quiet? PANEL DISCUSSIONS (our new trade paperback, shipping in June) is the place to find out! It picks the minds of the industry’s top storytellers, covering all aspects of the design of comics! Learn from WILL EISNER, MARK SCHULTZ, MIKE MIGNOLA, WALTER SIMONSON, DICK GIORDANO, MARK CHIARELLO and others as they share their hard-learned lessons about the DESIGN of comics!

Verily, ’tis Thor’s 40th year! In August, we’re celebrating the 40th anniversary of THOR in THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #36! To start things off, there’s two incredible color Kirby Thor covers (inked by MIKE ROYER and TREVOR VON EEDEN)! Inside, JOE SINNOTT and JOHN ROMITA JR. weigh in on their Thor work with new interviews, and we present a never-published 1969 interview with JACK KIRBY, conducted by SHEL DORF! Plus, we’re featuring 40 pages of Kirby Thor pencils, including an amazing Kirby Art Gallery at TABLOID SIZE, with pin-ups, covers, and more!

To get periodic e-mail updates of what’s new from TwoMorrows Publishing, sign up for our mailing list! Go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ twomorrows

Now Shipping! The Jack Kirby Collector #34 Alter Ego #15 Comic Book Artist #18 DRAW! #3 Xal-Kor the Human Cat

Coming This Summer!

! RYFT! R HU LE FEW

! RYFT! R HU LE FEW ALL-STAR COMPANION

STREETWISE

CELEBRATING THE JSA’S 60TH ANNIVERSARY

ROY THOMAS has assembled the most thorough look ever taken at All-Star Comics:

TOP ARTISTS DRAWING STORIES OF THEIR LIVES An unprecedented assembly of talent drawing NEW autobiographical stories:

• Covers by MURPHY ANDERSON! • Barry WINDSOR-SMITH • C.C. BECK The Jack Kirby Collector #35 (June) • Issue-by-issue coverage of ALL–STAR • Sergio ARAGONÉS • Walter SIMONSON Comic Book Artist #19 (June) COMICS #1–57, the original JLA–JSA • Brent ANDERSON • Nick CARDY DRAW! #4 (June) teamups, & the ’70s ALL–STAR REVIVAL! • Roy THOMAS & John SEVERIN • Art from an unpublished 1945 JSA story! • Paul CHADWICK • Rick VEITCH CBA Collection, Vol. 2 TPB (June) • Looks at FOUR “LOST” ALL–STAR issues! • Murphy ANDERSON • Joe KUBERT Panel Discussions TPB (June) • Rare art by BURNLEY, DILLIN, KIRBY, • Evan DORKIN • Sam GLANZMAN Alter Ego #16 (July) INFANTINO, KANE, KUBERT, ORDWAY, • Plus Art SPIEGELMAN, Jack KIRBY, more! Comic Books & Other Necessities Of ROSS, WOOD and more!! Cover by RUDE • Foreword by EISNER Life TPB (July) (208-page Trade Paperback) $24 US (160-Page Trade Paperback) $24 US EE Write Now! #1 (July) R FR TENDED FO Comic Book Artist #20 (July) ich is NOT IN paidEISNER AWARD WINNER! u wh yo L, or IA r, ER be bscri MAT GHTE Comic Book Artist #21D(August) u’re a print su PYRI is CO his ve our sincere WHERE. If yo NY(August) NG A The Jack Kirby Collector #36 website, you ha e this one. DOWNLOADI arge to download it at our ns lik tio ca bli pu I HaveesTo Live With This Guy TPB ch ing we e ep produc or torrent, the mod t fe (August) allows us to ke e from some other website NSENT, your support

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COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOL. 3 Third volume in the series, reprinting TJKC #13-15, with an intro by STEVE BISSETTE, plus 30 PIECES of unpublished Kirby art! (176-page Trade Paperback) $21 US

JACK KIRBY CHECKLIST

(100-pages) Lists all published work, portfolios, unpublished work, cross-references reprints, & more! A must-have for eBay shoppers! $7 US

THE COMIC BOOK ARTIST COLLECTION, VOL. ONE

HIS BOOKS OF FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE, VOL. ZERO

MR. MONSTER

Reprints the Eisner Award-winning COMIC BOOK ARTIST #1-3, plus over 50 NEW PAGES of features and art:

MR. MONSTER is back with a new book collection featuring TWELVE TWISTED TALES of Forbidden Knowledge, featuring:

• An unpublished story by JACK KIRBY! • An interview with NEAL ADAMS about his SUPERMAN VS. MUHAMMAD ALI book (including unused art)! • Unpublished BERNIE WRIGHTSON art! • An unused story by JEFFREY JONES! • Extensive new ALAN WEISS interview (including unpublished art), & more!

• Over 30 pages of ALL-NEW Mr. Monster art and stories by MICHAEL T. GILBERT! • Collects the hard-to-find MR. MONSTER stories from A-1, CRACK-A-BOOM! and DARK HORSE PRESENTS! • The lost Mr. Monster NEWSPAPER STRIP! • New 8-page FULL-COLOR STORY by KEITH GIFFEN & MICHAEL T. GILBERT!

(228-page Trade Paperback) $26 US

(136-page Trade Paperback) $20 US

WARREN COMPANION

KIMOTA! THE MIRACLEMAN COMPANION

for fre thanks— UT OUR CO downloaded it IAL. If DONE WITHO If instead you solutely 100% R COPYRIGHTED MATER ab s wa it at OU OF G IN please know th ST ILLEGAL PO ould do: and it was an ’s what you sh , here at you think. The season is underway and ’s the case thatconvention E, and see wh d purchase a GITAL ISSU an DI G IS already we’ve had greatRE shows at the Atlanta IN TH TH D T A E RIGH d and Despite ition at our Go aheaComicons. ep it, DO TH 1) Pittsburgh and twoke nomiough to ase the print ed ur local en rch it pu joy or , en ite u bs yo at we r nations (for TJKC and CBA), we didn’t win a 2) If yo or ou e) m fre r fro d of it ition fo loaour downbut er. legal HARVEY AWARD, own ERICyou to the Digital Ed titles gular paid read en re a h as hic u (w yo ite ve NOT SHARE NOLEN-WEATHINGTON did gete’d to be webs to ha lova epreTER and DO .W PU op M sh CO ok bo UR ic m to everyone who stopped YO senter!coThanks by OM FR IT . TE RE LEbought Y, erwise, DE our3)booth if you someIT ANYWHE Oth(especially L ILLEGALL S OR POST R MATERIA ITHcanFR thing)!IT Next findIEusND in Charlotte, NCNLOADING OU Wyou free downloadr fo W s ine DO az EP ag KE(visit N’T want to DO of all our m for4) Heroes Con June 14-16 y, on Finall decide if you complete issue ALTER SENSE OF WONDER r you toEGO: r oneinfo), cient fo www.heroesonline.com forfemore and downloading ld be suffiTHE for free. We of ep ou ke sh to ich CBA COLLECTION gh wh ou , Acclaimed historian Bill Schelly gives you en ite bs ns we tio r ca the biggie—Comicon International: San ou bli e. at pu ing produc ial we u enjoy our aterEGO If yo Reprints ALTER flip-sides from the AN INSIDER’S TOUR of comics fandom of em others. Diego, August 1-4e (where CBA, AE, and for ththe payingout-of-print the 1960s purchas COMIC BOOK ARTIST #1-5, these& ’70s. The fans, the comicons, r company by ou t or KIMOTA! are up for EISNER AWARDS)! n absorb pp the fanzines—they’re all here!! su , d an them plus de PAGES & art: cketofs,features ca ep po zens th 30 NEW do wi th wi ion — at or op rp sh • Introduction by ROY THOMAS, cover by giant co d pobyp” color JOE KUBERT! ancover “mom week-GIORDANO! a• Special e’re not some Wto rare and previously-unpublished d night and on DICK pany—literally • All-new If you need contact theall TwoMorrows m an y co da ay sm a e aw • Share Bill’s encounters with FREDERIC e g We’r rk. We lov ses.want JACK KIRBY,all GILthKANE, los(or is woJOE creators, slavin art byom editors to send a letternc ofe comWERTHAM, e for WOOD, ly on STEVE DITKO, BOB KANE, inc WALLY FRANK -working freela inimal amount ofKUBERT, hard op owner, reJIM of try ment), e-mail! ic sh SHOOTER, and more! m m co ty al et loc all pr ROBBINS, NEAL ADAMS, and others! a ur e e sm150 d yo th an of s, us or b • Over photos and illustrations by th ro ends, to mak t au n’ of itors, e do • STEVE creation asthe our ed s. Pleon John Morrow, publisher,t JACK KIRBY any DITKO, NEWTON, EISNER, C.C. sinesDITKO t beKIRBY, n’ wo e what we do, bu publication to stay in buSPIDER-MAN, er ROY THOMAS on the th ensure willINVADERS, COLLECTOReeditor (and BECK, KALUTA, KRENKEL, COCKRUM, this the one to go ceive. Doing birth so of THE and more! incom from problems): SINNOTT, GIL KANE and others! nsation we re to with subscription d. ount of compe $20 US (160-page Trade Paperback) loa am wn twomorrow@aol.com (216-page Trade Paperback) $20 US ts like this to do at d de oa future produc nl w Jon B. Cooke, COMIC BOOK ARTIST ld only be do PRIME8: CREATION #1 ou sh ns io s publicat editor: jonbcooke@aol.com TwoMorrow

Pros and Cons

A new comic book created by COMIC BOOK orrows.com ARTIST editor Jon B. Cooke, featuring:

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NEXT ISSUE: It’s Thor’s 40th Anniversary!

• NEW wraparound color cover by NEAL ADAMS! • NEW Prime8 pin-ups by SERGIO ARAGONÉS, WALTER SIMONSON, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH, and BRUCE TIMM! • Featuring story by JON B. COOKE & ANDREW D. COOKE, and art by CHRIS KNOWLES, GEORGE FREEMAN, AL MILGROM, and BOB WIACEK! (64-page comic book) $6 US

FAWCETT COMPANION THE BEST OF FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck has been delighting fans with his new FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA (FCA) sections in ALTER EGO, and this volume presents the best of the first 59 issues of the FCA newsletter (founded in 1973)! • New JERRY ORDWAY cover! • Index of ALL FAWCETT COMICS published from 1940-1953! • Behind-the-scenes looks inside the GOLDEN AGE FAWCETT OFFICES! • Interviews and features on C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, OTTO BINDER, PETE COSTANZA, ROSCOE FAWCETT, AL ALLARD, WILL LIEBERSON, ROD REED, GINNY PROVISIERO, cast members of the Captain Marvel serial and Shazam! TV show, and others! • Rare and previously unpublished artwork by BECK, SWAYZE, SCHAFFENBERGER, MAC RABOY, DAVE BERG, ALEX TOTH, BOB OKSNER, GEORGE EVANS, A.J. HANLEY, ALEX ROSS, a Foreword by SWAYZE, and more! (160-page Trade Paperback) $20 US

THE ULTIMATE REFERENCE GUIDE TO WARREN PUBLISHING

Editor JON B. COOKE has joined forces with historian DAVID ROACH to compile the definitive book on the black-&-white world of Warren Publishing, the publisher who created such magazines as CREEPY, EERIE, VAMPIRELLA, BLAZING COMBAT, and others. This book reprints the contents of the Eisner Award-winning magazine COMIC BOOK ARTIST #4 (completely reformatted), plus nearly 200 new pages:

Learn the behind-the-scenes secrets of ALAN MOORE’S MIRACLEMAN, from his beginnings as Marvelman, to the legal and creative hurdles during the 24-issue Eclipse Comics series, and why you never saw the final NEIL GAIMAN-scripted issue!

Also available as a Limited Edition Hardcover (limited to 1000 copies) signed by JIM WARREN, with custom endleaves, 16 extra pages, plus a WRIGHTSON plate not in the Trade Paperback.

• New MARK BUCKINGHAM cover! • Intro & back cover by ALEX ROSS! • In-depth interviews with ALAN MOORE, JOHN TOTLEBEN, NEIL GAIMAN, MARK BUCKINGHAM, GARRY LEACH, MICK ANGLO, BEAU SMITH, RICK VEITCH, and others! • UNPUBLISHED ART, UNINKED PENCILS, SKETCHES, & CONCEPT DRAWINGS (including unseen art from the neverpublished #25)! • Special COLOR SECTION! • NEVER-PUBLISHED 8-page Moore/ Totleben story, “Lux Brevis”, and an UNUSED MOORE SCRIPT! • A percentage of profits goes to artist JOHN TOTLEBEN, who is battling the eye disease Retinitis Pigmentosa.

(288-page Hardcover) $57 US

(144-page Trade Paperback) $17 US

• New painted cover by ALEX HORLEY! • A definitive WARREN CHECKLIST! • Dozens of NEW FEATURES on CORBEN, FRAZETTA, DITKO and others, and interviews with WRIGHTSON, WARREN, EISNER, ADAMS, COLAN & many more! (272-page Trade Paperback) $35 US

US Prices Include Postage. Outside the US, Add $2 Per Item Canada, $3 Per Item Surface, $7 Per Item Airmail (except Warren Companion Hardcover: add $14 Airmail)

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom.

TwoMorrows Publishing • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 USA • 919-833-8092 • FAX: 919-833-8023 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

Contents OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 (why was Kirby always running from something or another?)

THE NEW

UNDER THE COVERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 (Steve Rude and Marshall Rogers outline their respective covers this issue) JACK F.A.Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6 (regular columnist Mark Evanier answers a pair of Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby)

#35, SPRING 2002

BAD GUISE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11 (just who was Kirby’s greatest villain?) WRITER’S BLOC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12 (author Michael Chabon offers up a few words on Kirby) HOUDINI & KIRBY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14 (a brief look at each man’s approach to the artistry of escape) KIRBY AS A GENRE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16 (Adam McGovern finds the Kirby in a few of his favorite things) INNERVIEW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18 (Marshall Rogers chats about Mister Miracle, Kirby, and Batman) GALLERY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .26 (death traps, dwarfs, and bathing Bardas, all shown in pencil) TRIBUTE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .44 (the 2001 Kirby Tribute Panel, featuring the late John Buscema, John Romita, Mike Royer, Will Eisner, and some guy named Carson) DECONSTRUCTING HIMON . . . . . . . . .58 (three different writers take apart one of Kirby’s finest tales: “Himon”) IN CLOSING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .72 (an examination of Kirby’s second Mister Miracle series) COLLECTOR COMMENTS . . . . . . . . . . .76 (escape the humdrum letter columns of other mags by perusing these missives about our last issue) PARTING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 (on the way out, take a quick look at Jack’s final Mister Miracle page) Front cover inks: MARSHALL ROGERS Back cover pastel art: STEVE RUDE Front cover color: TOM ZIUKO

Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support. COPYRIGHTS: Batman, Bekka, Ben Boxer, Bernadeth, Big Barda, Bruce Wayne, Darkseid, Female Furies, Forever People, Funky Flashman, Granny Goodness, Himon, Houseroy, In The Days of the Mob, Jimmy Olsen, Joker, Kamandi, Kanto, Komodo, Lashina, Losers, Mad Harriet, Madame Evil Eye, Metron, Mister Miracle, Morgan Edge, Oberon, Orion, Renzi, Scott Free, Shilo Norman, Silver St. Cloud, Stompa, Superman, The Lump, Tigra, Virmin Vundabar, Young Scott Free TM & ©2002 DC Comics. • Annihilus, Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Devil Dinosaur, Eternals, Falcon, Fantastic Four, Galactus, Human Torch, Invisible Girl, Jasper Sitwell, Moonboy, Mr. Fantastic, Nick Fury, Dum-Dum Dugan, Silver Surfer, Thing, Thor, Ultron TM & © 2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. • Jacob & The Angel, Jupiter Plaque, Stereon, Street Code TM & ©2002 Jack Kirby Estate.

The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 10, No. 35, Spring 2002. Published quarterly by & ©2002 TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant. Single issues: $13 postpaid ($15 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $36.00 US, $60.00 Canada, $64.00 elsewhere. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is ©2002 Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is ©2002 the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

heard a war story or two) can attest—and unlike a stage magician’s act, his death-defying feats were the real thing.

Opening Shot

Escape from a dying industry (1950s). After the end of his Mainline company (and parting ways with Joe Simon) as the comics industry looked to be collapsing, Jack picked up whatever work he could find. He may have seen the writing on

(inset) Convention sketches of Barda and Mister Miracle done for Al Milgrom.

The Great Kirby “Bust J (next page, bottom) The final panels of several comics Jack “ran from” (usually not of his own choice): Eternals, Forever People, Jimmy Olsen, Our Fighting Forces, Captain America (in pencil), and Devil Dinosaur.

(background) A map of New York’s East Village, highlighting where celebrities grew up, including Kirby (as shown below). (top) An artist’s representation of Kirby’s neighborhood (at the corner of Suffolk and Delancy streets) as it stands today; Jack’s home would’ve been to the left, where a parking lot is today.

ack Kirby was running from something all his life. Okay, I know that statement might sound strange to any number of longtime Kirby fans, but bear with me a minute, and I’ll explain what I mean. This issue is all about the theme of “escape” in Jack’s work, and so it naturally will feature lots of Mister Miracle, Kirby’s super escape artist; but while the rest of the issue will deal with some of the “close calls” that character experienced on the comics page, I want to delve into what may have made Jack so inclined to submerge himself in this particular brand of escapism called comic books—what I term “The Great Kirby Bust-Out!” (to borrow a line from the cover of Mister Miracle #9). Escape was a part of Jack’s life, from beginning to end. To demonstrate my point, I’ve compiled a list of what I consider to be Kirby’s top ten biggest real-life escapes, in chronological order:

Escape from the Lower East Side (1930s). As a son of Jewish immigrants, Kirby spent his childhood in one of the poorest neighborhoods in New York. Daily gang fights were the norm, as few kids on his block had much else to live for; but Kirby surreptitiously kept his imagination and artistic talent alive and flourishing through reading, movies, and drawing, and instead of following in his father’s blue collar footsteps, used his talents to find a way out of the slum. Escaping anti-Semitism (1940s). Early in his career, Jack chose to legally change his name from Kurtzberg to Kirby (much to his parents’ dismay). Although he never turned his back on his faith and ancestry, he opted for the new name for commercial reasons, undoubtedly feeling it could help him avoid any anti-Semitic backlash in his search for work. Escape from death (World War II). After enlisting in the Army, PFC Jack Kirby was assigned to numerous life-threatening situations as an advance scout. The experience would be great fodder for future comics stories, but he barely lived to tell them. After scraping by alive in Patton’s army, he was discharged with frozen feet, and nearly had them amputated. WWII was a profound influence on his life—as anyone who met Jack in person (and

the wall much earlier, because from the late 1940sonward, he was constantly pursuing his dream of landing a coveted syndicated newspaper comic strip. The opportunity finally arose with Sky Masters, and its promise of a better, more secure living and greater prestige; but the strip waned after an impressive start, and Jack found himself trapped back working for a comics page rate just to survive. Arguably, the desperation of the situation led to the development of the Marvel Universe, which in turn helped save a dying industry, but it also propelled Kirby squarely back into it. So in some ways, his escape to newspaper syndication led him right back to a trap of his own making.

Escape from New York (1969). After more than 50 years living in the city of his birth, Kirby uprooted his family and moved to the other side of the country. Jack claimed the California clime was better for his daughter Lisa’s asthma, but no doubt the freedom of being 3000 miles away from an editor made the decision all the easier. The change in scenery appears to have started new ideas brewing in his mind, which would lead to some of his most mind-boggling concepts making their way to the comics page. Escape from Marvel and Stan Lee (1970). Perhaps the biggest career move he ever made, the switch to DC Comics meant he was leaving behind the success of 1960s Marvel Comics, for a chance to prove

himself without a collaborator to share the credit with. From this point on, with rare exceptions, Jack wrote and edited his own stories (usually sending in completely lettered and inked work), and never again worked “Marvel method.” Escaping DC (1975). Although what waited for him back at Marvel ended up no better than what he was leaving behind, Jack chose not to renew his contract at DC Comics when it expired. The failed Fourth World experiment and a string of unsatisfying post-New Gods series left him looking for somewhere, anywhere else to ply his trade. For better or worse, Marvel Comics was the only other game in town, so he jumped ship yet again in hopes of a better situation.

-Out!” Escaping the comics industry entirely (1978). Just when things seemed hopeless in the comics field he helped pioneer four decades earlier, the animation industry came calling. With higher pay, more respect, and much-needed health benefits as he entered his declining years, Jack ironically ended his career where it began; only instead of doing in-betweening for Popeye cartoons, he was a much sought-after concept man (creating thousands of ideas that will likely never be seen by the public), and scoring a major hit with Thundarr the Barbarian. Escaping the “Big Two” (1980s). Jack’s final major foray into comics, rather than for DC and Marvel, wound up being for independent publishers. Freed of the constraints of company-wide continuity and editorial dictates (which he experienced one last time on DC’s 1984 Hunger Dogs Graphic Novel), Kirby produced wild, frenetic work like never before. Some loved it, some hated it, but no one could deny his unchained imagination was working at full speed on such projects as Captain Victory and Silver Star. Escape from obscurity (1990s). After years of no new Kirby work on the stands, and a gradual lessening of attention being paid to Jack (including smaller crowds at conventions, where younger readers flocked to the Image creators), Jack experienced a resurgence of popularity in the 1990s. The debut of Phantom Force (with Kirby concepts combined with Image inkers) and the Topps Secret City Saga books, as well as the release of The Art of Jack Kirby (and not one, but two fanzines devoted to Kirby) helped bring him back to the forefront of fans’ minds (although his place in comics history was undoubtedly assured anyway). Is it any wonder then, that Jack was destined to make his mark in a field of escapist entertainment? While he may never have mastered the intricate escape techniques of a prestidigitator like Houdini, he certainly worked his own brand of magic in comics; and the personal chains that encumbered him throughout his life and career were every bit as difficult to surmount as anything David Copperfield and co. have ever dreamed up for their acts. ★

Under The Covers

teve Rude didn’t waste a second when we asked him if he’d ever done a Mister Miracle #1 cover recreation that we could run on this issue’s back cover. Although he hadn’t, he immediately offered to give it a shot. (We thought Steve was a particularly appropriate choice since, on the the original cover of #1, Mister Miracle is saying the villains “are in for a RUDE shock.”) We assumed “The Dude” would do a traditional pen-&-ink version, and were totally stunned when a gorgeous pastel drawing arrived less than a week later. Steve had this to say about the creation of the piece: “Some of you may be familiar with a magazine called Step-by-Step. Though I collected it solely for “Methods of the Masters,” a section devoted to vintage illustrators, I have yet to learn a thing from any of the Step-by-Step articles. Maybe I’d have to be there watching over the artist’s shoulder, or physically work alongside them, but for me these articles just don’t seem to work. “With that in mind, I’ll describe the process of the Mister Miracle #1 recreation. It was rendered in Nupastel, a hard, sticklike chalk, and done on orange Canson paper. I began by enlarging a copy of the actual Kirby cover and transferring it onto the pastel paper. I juggled some elements around since there were no logo or word balloons to worry about, and began to apply the main colors throughout. “Pastel is a new medium for me and is best suited to painting large images where you can use broad, suggestive strokes. Eventually, you hone-in on details with smaller and smaller strokes. This is more difficult than it sounds. Pastel smears easily. Like all mediums, its drawbacks work side-by-side with its charms. At one point I dragged my sleeve along an area I’d spent an hour on and smeared the whole thing. I finally realized the baggy sleeves I was wearing were the culprit. Instant wipeout. Pastelists have a thing against fixative for some reason, but it’s the only sane way to work with the stuff. (I rolled up my sleeve after that incident.) “For the budding illustrators out there, know that mediums don’t make an artist. Practice and accumulated knowledge do. As Andrew Loomis once said, the principles apply to all art regardless of the medium used; be it oil, acrylic, watercolor, or a stick dipped in mud. “Problems arise in all mediums as an artist struggles to improve. This situation usually applies throughout our entire lives. Our job is to become smarter than the medium, and not let technical things interfere with the fundamentals that make a good picture.”

(below) For those who didn’t get enough “Rude” in Steve’s pastel interpretation, here are a couple of fan commissions he did in the 1990s. Mr. Miracle, Big Barda TM & ©2002 DC Comics. Artwork © Steve Rude.

Marshall Rogers took the more conventional route for this issue’s front cover, inking a xerox of the Kirby pencils shown on the previous page. He had this to say about the experience: “How does one approach a legend’s work? Jack is so definitive in his linework that there is little room for interpretation, and yet I consider his style to be representative of form rather than absolute. “I also feel an artist should bring something of himself to his work. With this in mind, and a personal preference to an “organic” rather than “plastic” look to inks (as I talked about during this book’s interview), I inked the cover you see on this issue.” We originally toyed with the idea of adding one of Jack’s photo-collages to the front cover’s background, but after seeing the color work Tom Ziuko added to it (not to mention the spiffy “planet” detailing by Tom’s pal Scott Lemien), we thought the white background aided our goal of making it look like the cover of one of those 25¢ 1970s DC 52-pagers (think Jimmy Olsen #148, among others). ★ 5

Mark evanier

Jack F.A.Q.s

A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby by Mark Evanier Once again, we attempt the seemingly-impossible: We shall endeavor to answer not one but two Kirby-related queries in one long, rambling reply. The first comes from Kirk Groeneveld, who writes:

“I’m not Jewish, but I wonder how Jack Kirby’s faith interfaced with his continuing theme of hidden races being genetically manipulated. How did he feel about the assignment to “Have the FF meet God” in Fantastic Four #48-50?” And the second comes from someone who signs their e-mail “Washing2000lb,” which I guess means their name or their locale is Washington. Anyway, he, she or it writes: “What’s the deal with Mister Miracle? Everyone says it was based on Steranko but that Big Barda was based on Roz taking care of Kirby. Wouldn’t that make Jack Mister Miracle?” irst, to Kirk: I’ve always been skeptical about that “meet God” anecdote, as I see absolutely nothing in those issues to suggest that Galactus represented a view of the Almighty on the part of either Mr. Lee or Mr. Kirby. Think about it: Galactus was an intergalactic force who created nothing, gave life to no one and left each world he visited a barren, lifeless wasteland. How

(next page, top) Photo of Roy Thomas and Flo Steinberg, circa 1965, shortly after Roy started working at the House of Ideas. The similarities between the Rascally One and Jasper Sitwell (see inset) are pretty evident. Photo courtesy of Flo Steinberg. Jasper Sitwell, Nick Fury, DumDum Dugan TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

does he relate to any interpretation of God that has ever been enshrined in any book, any teaching, any religion? Last I heard—and I doubt this has changed—God was supposed to foster life, not destroy it for his own enrichment. Yes, I know a few “scholarly” essays have sought to read between the panels and make the case, but I remain unconvinced. My suspicion is that Stan said to Jack—or maybe Jack said to Stan—“Let’s have the FF fight someone who’s supremely powerful” and somehow, that suggestion was later recalled as, “Let’s have them meet God.” Obviously, just because a comic book character has awesome might, it does not mean that he in any way corresponds to his authors’ vision of you-know-who. Just what was on Stan’s mind, I can’t say. He does not recall individual issues well and the one time he and I discussed that story arc, he didn’t have much to say about it. Neither did Jack, but I did come up with a theory as to what he was thinking at the time he worked on that little epic. To explain it, I need to detour and answer the question from Washing2000lb.... Almost everything Jack wrote (or plotted) had autobiographical elements. In some cases, they were so obscure and disguised that even he didn’t recognize them in the final mix. But just as an actor utilizes personal sense memories in acting, Jack used his own emotional experiences throughout his work. When he drew a scene that involved anger, he was usually thinking about something that had once angered him, and so forth. In some cases, the reference points are even slightly visible. Here’s one example of many: Last issue in this magazine, there was a mention of Jasper Sitwell, the young, collegeeducated S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, as clearly being based on Dudley Do-Right.

led to the scenes in the comic wherein Nick Fury and DumDum Dugan would he chatting about past wars, only to hear their pasts itemized by the newly-arrived, verbose Mr. Sitwell. This was not at all a negative caricature. (Jack did a few of those out of pique during his career and subsequently regretted them.) It was also not, by design, a particularly deep or fully-formed portrait of Roy or anyone. Kirby was merely taking an incident from his own life and using a fictionalized version of it to make a story. In the same way, Mister Miracle was born from some stories Jim Steranko had told Kirby about his days as an escape artist, and some magazines he had given him. [Editor’s Note: see sidebar.] From there, Jack went on to extrapolate a whole character who might have been described as, “What would I, Jack Kirby, have done in a similar context?” Other elements, of course, were piled upon that one. Writers, you have to remember, do not generally base their stories wholly on one source of inspiration or concept. They combine many components and most insert at least a smidgen of themselves— sometimes, a very large smidgen—into everything they write. If tomorrow, I had to write about Abraham Lincoln, obviously I’d be writing about his life and times, but it wouldn’t surprise me if, even unconsciously, a little Evanier began creeping in around the edges. So it was that Steranko’s adventures in escape-artistry gave Jack the notion. When he wrote the stories, however, Kirby was writing about what went on in his own head; about

his feelings of imprisonment in the comic book business and his yearning to escape from it. (There’s actually a delightful bit of symmetry there, in Jack projecting himself into Steranko’s role. Earlier, of course, Jack had launched Nick Fury as a blatantly autobiographical character, and Steranko had taken it over. As any creative person would do, he infused the character with his own personal style and allusions.) What I find most autobiographical about Mister Miracle is what Kirby didn’t do. He didn’t, for the most part, resort to tricks. When Jack first told me the concept of Mister Miracle, my mind immediately went to all those great Batman stories—many of them by Bill Finger—in which the Caped Crusader is imprisoned in some death trap and finds the means to break free. In those stories, it is always accomplished by some sort of clever strategy or gimmick. In real life, that is much of what an escape artist does. Part of the craft involves physical endurance and dexterity, but part involves hidden devices and misdirection: Concealed compartments, rigged trap doors, etc. Houdini used to hide lockpicks in his mouth and many of his successors use diversion and outright fibs to make a predicament look vastly more difficult and dangerous than it actually is. Jack knew all this, in part from the books Steranko had left with him. The “misdirection” techniques—making you think a non-lethal stunt is potentially deadly—he summarily rejected for dramatic reasons. In a Kirby comic, danger is danger; it is no hoax. In Jack’s stories, Mister Miracle never gets out of his death traps via a trick, or at least not wholly because of a trick or gimmick. Even when he employs something of the sort, he really gets

Nope. Not in the least. The inspiration for Sitwell was Roy Thomas, who had joined the Marvel staff not long before. Jack recalled how, when he and Bill Everett were visiting in the office, Roy would approach them and tick off facts about their past accomplishments, often employing a vocabulary that sounded, to Kirby and Everett, remarkably well-seasoned for a guy in the funnybook biz. This

Steranko’s World of Escapes For those interested in knowing more about Steranko’s career as an escape artist and stage magician, the most impressive documentation of it I’ve seen to date is in an obscure magazine from October 1964, Genii, The Conjurors’ Magazine (Volume 29, #2). The print run on this issue was fewer than 5000 copies, and it was distributed to magic shops and subscribers (this was, of course, before Steranko got his big break in comics, so few copies would have made it into comics collectors’ hands upon its initial release), so it’s extremely difficult to find a copy. The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay author Michael Chabon loaned us his copy for this issue, and he had to pay dearly for it on eBay (thanks again, Michael!). If you can manage to track down a copy, you’ll undoubtedly be as amazed as I was to find the depth of information about the escape trade— and Steranko’s own act—contained therein. There’s photos of Steranko’s personal collection of lockpicks (used in his act, and many of his own invention), techniques for escaping chains and straitjackets, tips on showmanship, a transcript of his “Dynamic Magic” stage show, details of how he executed many of his escapes, and even a section outlining ideas for future escapes, had he stayed in the business (including several early Steranko comic-style drawings showing the proposed escapes, done before he hit it big in comics). Steranko created the cover (shown above) by pasting his own image and some additional type over one of Houdini’s most famous photos (this done in pre-Photoshop days, so not the easiest task to complete convincingly), showing he had a strong grasp of print production techniques long before his comics career began (no doubt learned during his years in advertising). It even includes a copy of the promotional brochure he designed for use in getting bookings for his stage show. Steranko’s career as an escape artist started as early as age 15 when, as detailed in a newspaper clipping reprinted in the issue, he challenged his local police department to lock him in a cell, from which he proceeded to escape, confounding his captors. He went on to have a successful stage act of sleight-of-hand tricks and escapes, pioneering numerous techniques that are undoubtedly still in use today. While Steranko isn’t as well-known an escape artist as Houdini before him—or thanks to television coverage, David Copperfield today—I don’t doubt that the information contained in Genii would inspire and influence future performers of the liberation arts, and make Steranko as widely acknowledged in magic circles as he is in comics. ★ —John Morrow 7

emotions he had actually experienced and the vague skeleton of what was true for his own life. Which brings us back to Kirk’s question...

out by being faster and stronger than his enemies expect. That was among the many ways Jack viewed life: Your freedom depends on being faster and stronger than anyone expects. Kirby didn’t feel it would be emotionally valid for Scott Free to evade death just because he or someone had prearranged a hidden door in the death trap. He felt that he had broken free from his own, personal prisons—or would break free—by working harder, being faster, demonstrating greater endurance. That was how Mister Miracle had to get out of his. There is, of course, the point in every story where autobiography gives way to pure, unreferenced fiction. For the most part, however, Kirby worked out of

In 1966, Marvel Comics was owned by Martin Goodman, who was beginning to entertain offers to sell out, presumably to some large conglomerate. Jack tended to have a fear of the unknown, particularly of the powerful unknown. You may have seen the “Jupiter Plaque” (shown below) that Jack once designed at the request of The Los Angeles Times. In his accompanying notes, he wrote of a fear of powerful invaders and asked, “...who will come a-knocking—the trader or the tiger?” The same, in ’66, could have been asked about whatever corporation ultimately acquired Marvel. Jack did not like nor trust Goodman, and felt that the publisher was already reneging on past promises of financial participation. Still, Marvel as it stood represented a certain stability and a more-or-less guaranteed weekly paycheck. Jack was an avid follower of the newspaper— the financial page, included—and he had seen many an example of a large company acquiring a small one, strip-mining its assets for quick cash and then dumping it as a worthless shell. In the Eighties and Nineties, this technique would be refined to a high art and some might even suggest that it was done to Marvel, after a fashion, by one of its many owners. Even in ’66, the practice reduced many healthy firms to rubble. One day in the Seventies, hearing Jack talk about corporate takeovers, it suddenly sounded to me like he was describing the tale of Galactus attempting to feast on Earth. A big company, he said, always had a voracious appetite and a need to keep expanding and devouring others. (Jack did not mention Galactus; that was my association.) Like all analogies, it only goes so far. The Silver Surfer, who functioned as herald to Galactus, does not really fit into it. The fear, however—that a huge, unstoppable force will descend on “us” and strip us of our lives so it can continue to grow—provides the emotional underpinning to the story; and that, I believe, is a fear that Jack was experiencing at the time he did his work on those issues of Fantastic Four. It was a justifiable fear, at least insofar as Kirby’s own livelihood was concerned. A few years later, when Perfect Film and Chemical Corporation (later renamed Cadence Industries) took

control of Marvel, Jack felt driven away by the company’s minuscule regard for individual employees. He didn’t matter to them any more than mere Earthlings had mattered to Galactus. Some time after I made the connection, I presented my theory to Jack and, before I tell you his response, I should note that Jack had a tendency to tell fans—especially if they were passionate— what they wanted to hear. That is, if an energetic follower of his work went up to him and said, “I get it! The Black Racer symbolized the Girl Scouts going door-to-door selling Thin Mints,” Jack would—as often as not—tell the person, “You got it,” just so he didn’t disappoint them or crush their enthusiasm. Jack was also the kind of creative talent that operated on instinct more than explicit logic. If you asked him why he did something in a given issue, he would usually have to stop and think up an answer for you... and it would probably be a valid one, but not one he had hitherto divined. If you went back to him a year later and asked him again about the same story, he’d start the thought process anew and might well have come up with a completely different answer—also, valid. All that said, when I told Jack my Galactus/Corporation theory, it was one of the rare times I ever saw him appear truly startled. During the nearly-30 years I knew him, I told him a lot of rubbish and pestered him with a lot of inane notions that he was too polite to dismiss as such. This time, however, I believe his concurrence was genuine; that, if only by dumb luck, I had stumbled onto something about a Kirby story that even Kirby had not fully realized before I mentioned it.

He told me I was right. Perhaps I am wrong that he was not humoring me, and also that it had not occurred to him before, but I don’t think so. As for the other part of Kirk’s question: One could perhaps argue that this fear of the new, powerful force is characteristically Jewish. Certainly, those (my) people have a history of being evicted from various homelands by an array of purges and pogroms, and there was probably some parallel, in Kirby’s mind, between that and his recurring theme of hidden races. It also, of course, applies to any race or people who were ever persecuted or ousted from their communities. I leave it to others to expand on this theme. One last thing about Jack and autobiographical characters. I always knew that Kirby put a little of himself into everyone he drew, but it’s more obvious in some than others. The conflicted nature of Orion, for example, represented Jack’s own inner turmoils over some of the things he’d done, or felt forced to do, to feed his family. His World War II experiences popped up in practically everything he did, not just military strips such as “The Losers” and Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos. And of course, Fury, like The Thing, smoked a cigar—always a good indicator of Kirby identification. But something hit me recently that gave me that “How Could I Not Have Noticed This?” feeling. My pal Will Murray recently called my attention to the cover of Fantastic Four #7, published way back in 1962. It was an interesting but not spectacular cover which I’d

(above) Jack put his own twist on this biblical encounter with “Jacob & The Angel.” A pewter statue was created by Glen Kolleda and sold in conjunction with the “Jacob” print. A second statue/print set was planned and promoted, entitled “Beast Rider,” but we don’t believe it was ever produced. ©2002 Jack Kirby Estate.

looked at dozens of times without spotting what I recently spotted. Actually, there are several interesting things about this cover. One is that, a week or three ago, Will pointed out to me—and I concurred with—his theory that Jack actually inked this cover. Kirby almost never inked at Marvel and a few weeks ago, if you’d asked me if he’d ever inked any Fantastic Four covers, I’d have said, “Certainly not.” This one, though, sure looks like it was. Joe Sinnott inked the insides of #5 and was supposed to be the regular embellisher thereafter but, a page or two into #6, he suddenly found himself buried in deadlines and he turned the issue back. Dick Ayers finished #6 and took over from there on. Apparently, in the shuffle, it was necessary to have someone else ink this cover and Jack wound up doing it. (As a general rule of thumb, the cover to an issue was finished around the same time as the insides of the previous issue.) Will further notes that this cover probably also shows us the way Jack “saw” The Thing at the time—the way he was penciling ol’ Ben Grimm. The odd texture of the character’s epidermis changed a lot as different artists inked Kirby’s pencils, though they all seem to have made him less claylike and more segmented than Jack intended. Eventually though—and perhaps to some extent because of the inkers—Jack began to pencil the character less claylike and more segmented. Neither of these is as interesting to me as this: All those of you who ever met Jack, take a close look at the drawing of Mr. Fantastic. Stare at it for a few seconds. I did... and I was amazed that I’d never before noticed how much the character looks like Jack—especially, Jack as he must have looked around 1962. In fact, the more I looked at it, the more it looked like him. (I met Kirby in ’69 so perhaps it looks more like him to me than it does to those of you who met him later, or only saw later photos.) I suddenly found myself saying, “My God... how could I never have noticed before how much Reed “Mr. Fantastic” Richards looks like Jack?” And now that I’ve made that connection, I doubt I’ll ever be able to shake it. Next question? ★

Mark Evanier welcomes your Kirby Questions at me@evanier.com, or you can mail your questions to: 5850 W. 3rd St., #367 • Los Angeles, CA 90036 He answers some of the more common ones (and offers all sorts of fun non-Kirby stuff) at his website, www.POVonline.com Also: in July, TwoMorrows presents Comic Books & Other Necessities of Life, a collection of the best of Mark’s POV columns, plus new ones, complete with illos by Sergio Aragonés. See the ad in this issue for ordering info!

(below) A 1960s photo of Kirby, alongside the cover to Fantastic Four #7. Can you see the resemblance between Jack and Mr. Fantastic? Photo by & ©2002 Vince Davis, courtesy of Richard Kyle. Fantastic Four TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Bad Guise

Kirby’s Greatest Villain? by David E. Jefferson

ho was Kirby’s greatest villain? This depends on how one defines “greatest.” For our purposes, “great” refers to being of outstanding quality, but Kirby’s work has been so outstanding, consistent, and of long duration that only a nominal amount of villains can be eliminated by this frame of reference. Galactus certainly fit the bill. “Great” also refers to being larger than others, and this is true of Galactus both physically and conceptually. Unlike Dr. Doom, the Super Skrull, the Enchanters, and a litany of others, Galactus never wanted to conquer the Earth—he only wanted to eat it. Logically, if we refer to greater concepts, Darkseid and the host of Fourth World troublemakers must also be included, for both Galactus and Darkseid basically viewed “Midgard” as being beneath them. However, as great as they are, neither is Kirby’s greatest bad guy. In this writer’s mind, his greatest villain is Funky Flashman.

Funky hasn’t the power to oppose Earl, the Rich Rabbit; however, readers should not allow themselves to be fooled by Kirby’s deceptively simple satire. The “power curve” between protagonist and antagonist negates any “no super-powers” argument; it simply acknowledges the fact that a great hero needs a foe on their level (or above it) to make an interesting story. Captain America and the Red Skull are an evenly matched protagonist/antagonist. By this standard, Funky Flashman is a good antagonist for Mister Miracle (who also technically doesn’t possess super-powers). Granted, Flashman wasn’t really “the heavy’’ in Mister Miracle #6. So why do I think he’s Kirby’s greatest villain? It’s not because Flashman is an unflattering caricature of Stan Lee (though that point can’t be ignored). What makes Flashman the greatest villain is the realistic portrayal of undesirable characteristics. Flashman did nothing that Desaad, Loki, and a host of others wouldn’t have done, but those traits are expected of them. What hit home to me, more than with any other infamous rogue, is that Flashman represents the flaws of the human condition. Funky represents Stan Lee directly, but all of us indirectly. Psychologically, we are born egocentric and selfcentered. Through growth and development we learn to be altruistic. Flashman throwing his servant to the “she-wolves” (to save himself ) represents a selfish but mundane human occurrence. In Mister Miracle #6, Flashman holds a Mother Box (a Kirby symbol of harmony and the universal good) and literally throws it away (contrast this to Sonny Sumo, who with Mother Box, discovered the dreaded Anti-Life Equation). Kirby directly attacks and finds humor in human stubbornness, hubris, and arrogance. The name “Funky” is apropos to the character because of its diverse meaning. Funky means frightened, panicky, outlandishly vulgar, and odoriferously offensive, but it also refers to being self-expressive, creative, and original. (Kirby fans and the rest of humanity would have to wait until What If? #11—about 6 years—to see the more positive characteristics of Funky/Stan.) The greatest bad guys are not the ones with amazing abilities such as Annihilus or Ego, but the ones who remind us of ourselves. Just as Terrible Turpin provides the quintessential example of courage—being able to overcome impossible odds— Funky Flashman is the inverse to that paradigm. He shows that often the “impossible odds” are ourselves. ★ 11

Writer’s Bloc

(next page, left) Photo of Michael Chabon by Patricia Williams. © Patricia Williams.

(next page, top) Dust jacket for the hardback version of Michael Chabon’s The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, featuring his character The Escapist—a character who, according to published reports, is getting his own series from DC Comics soon (gee, maybe they’ll team him up with Mister Miracle!). ©2002 Michael Chabon.

(next page, bottom) Panel from Kirby’s autobiographical story “Street Code,” done in pencil. Kirby fans who’ve never experienced this remarkable 10-page story can read it as part of TwoMorrows’ trade paperback Streetwise, available elsewhere in this issue. ©2002 Jack Kirby Estate.

A Few Words From

(Acclaimed author Michael Chabon was born in 1963, and grew up reading comic books. He’s penned several books, but the one of most interest to Kirby fans is undoubtedly The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel dealing with the Golden Age of Comics and escape artistry as its themes. In the midst of his extremely hectic schedule these days, Michael took time out to conduct the following interview in March 2002, via e-mail.)

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: What were the first Kirby comics you read? Did you read Mister Miracle when Kirby was working on it in the 1970s? MICHAEL CHABON: Absolutely. Mister Miracle was my favorite of the Fourth World books. I was a devoted reader of DC books in the very early ’70s, as a seven- or eight-year-old. I really didn’t care for the Marvel books. I suppose they went over my head.

Michael Chabon They had a frenetic, sweaty quality to them. The DC books were cool and mannered and the values were easy to comprehend. Little kids really do believe in truth and justice and the American way. So I didn’t know from Kirby. Then all of a sudden those banners started appearing in the DC books: “Kirby Is Coming!” and then, finally, “Kirby Is Here!” I had no idea who Kirby was. I thought it might be a character—some vague association chiming in my mind with the Rip Kirby newspaper strip. Then my dad brought me home the first few Kirby Jimmy Olsen books. That was always a book prone to bizarre flights of fancy, but— whoa. I don’t think I knew quite what to make of Kirby at first. The book that really, truly, permanently blew my mind was the issue of Mister Miracle in which he fights the creature from the Id [#8]; a big, pink, comatose but sentient wad of bubblegum. There’s this incredible double-page spread of the Female Furies killing time in their barracks. That panel just completely unhinged me. The dynamic layout, the wealth of figures and the variety of their costumes, the air of violence and sexuality, the bizarrely stilted dialogue. From that point on I was a confirmed Kirbyite. TJKC: Did any characters or scenes from Mister Miracle influence your novel? For instance, could a parallel be drawn between Joe Kavalier’s mentor Bernard Kornblum, and Himon from Mister Miracle? How about between Joe Kavalier’s own escape from Nazi-occupied Prague, and Scott Free’s escape from Apokolips? MICHAEL: There may very well be underpinnings of Mister Miracle in my book. I’m sure there are; but if so, I was totally unaware of them at the time. You could toss in that the ‘fictional’ character of Max Mayflower who trains the Escapist is a bit like Thaddeus Brown, the original Mister Miracle. And I guess that makes Sammy Oberon! The surest connection, and the one that I really was conscious of, was between my guy and Jim Steranko. It was reading about Steranko’s first career as an escape artist that encouraged me to develop the motif of Houdini and escape artistry that was very lightly emphasized in the first few drafts. And Steranko also underlies Mister Miracle. So that’s the strongest link, I think, between my book and JK’s. TJKC: Your novel features a who’s who of Golden Age comics creators making cameo appearances, from Stan Lee, Joe Simon, and Gil Kane to Will Eisner and others; but Kirby seems conspicuous by his absence, not actually appearing as a character in the novel. Was this intentional, and if so, why?

MICHAEL: Well, I guess I just sort of felt as if this book was, in a way, for Jack Kirby, or of him—as much as, in a very different way, it was for and of my dad (to whom I dedicated it). Having him also appear in it might have seemed like too much, somehow. TJKC: On page 100 of the hardcover edition, it’s revealed that Sammy Clay’s mother fell in love with Sammy’s father in “Kurtzburg’s Saloon” on New York’s Lower East Side in 1919. In what other ways was the novel inspired by Kirby’s own escape from his Lower East Side upbringing? MICHAEL: There was no direct inspiration from Kirby’s life; not really, except insofar as Kirby’s history mirrored so closely the history of my own grandparents and great-grandparents, many of whom settled in the Lower East Side, too. TJKC: An underlying theme of Kavalier & Clay seems to be “Comics are escapism, but there’s no getting away from real life.” Is that an accurate assessment, and is there a message there for comics fans? MICHAEL: I don’t see it that way. I might restate it thus: “Comics are escapism, and thank God, because without escapist art there really would be no getting away from real life.” By the way, I believe that all great literature is, in part, escapist. When you inhabit the life of a fictional character or characters, you are given a taste of what it might feel like to be somebody else—to escape, if only for a moment, the prison of your own consciousness. TJKC: Can you elaborate on the theme of “escape” in the novel? An example that seems to fall under the theme is Joe Kavalier’s journey to Antarctica during the war to escape his past and his brother’s death. MICHAEL: I read this sequence as more in the nature of an escape in itself; that is, Joe is locked away in this great frozen box of death, a trap that kills everyone but him, and he alone escapes; and yet, at the same time, learns that the trap of memory, of guilt and remorse and shame, is one that he cannot escape, not even by taking revenge. TJKC: Another is the Escapist’s secret identity of Tom Mayflower; of course, the Pilgrims escaped persecution on their ship, the Mayflower. MICHAEL: Interesting. I just wanted something that sounded super-WASPy. TJKC: Help us get into your mind as a writer. Are those types of occurrences coincidental or planned? Do you consciously set out to develop these ideas from the start, or do they evolve, and come to you as you write? What are some other areas in the novel that tie into the “escape” theme? MICHAEL: Theme is absolutely the very last thing I consider. I start with a character, a setting, or a story idea; an interesting event or episode or sequence of events. Then I start writing, and I try to use my ability to manipulate language to the utmost, hoping to make these characters, this setting, this story, come 13

(below) We agree with Michael that Kamandi is a much underrated strip. Here’s a Mike Royer-inked page from issue #10; and after all, what was Kamandi, but a kid from the slums, trying to make his way in the world, and getting in scrapes along the way? Kamandi, Ben Boxer TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

to life in the mind of a reader through the use of sensuous language. All the while, I hope and trust that my crazy old subconscious is busy tossing in a bunch of stuff that I’m not even aware of but which will start, little by little, to add up, thematically. To resonate. So after I had four or five drafts of the book, I sat back and looked at it. I was dissatisfied. There was a lot of stuff that wasn’t working. To choose the most germane example, I had this sort of generic Strong Guy character Joe and Sam had dreamed up, not too interesting, not too compelling. So I looked at the book as a whole and said, “Well, what’s this damn book about, anyway?” And right away I started noticing that there was this theme of escape running through it, from the start; Sammy’s escape from Brooklyn, Joe’s from Prague, escape artistry, escapist fiction, etc. So I thought, “Hey, this character of theirs just has to be a superpowered escape artist.” Once I made that decision, the character finally came to life in my imagination, and thus in Joe’s and Sammy’s, too—and all their motivations for dreaming him up, and for the kind of adventures they wrote and drew, all became clear, too. It was all there, waiting. That’s what I hope and trust

in. The trick is taking that step backward, after you’ve got something going, and saying, “What’s going on here?” TJKC: Since this is for a Kirby magazine, it’s my job to dig for Kirby ties, even where there might not be any. Joe’s love interest, Rosa, might seem to Kirby fans as inspired by Jack’s wife Roz. Any connection, or am I grasping? MICHAEL: She has a lot more in common, in my mind, with my own wife, Ayelet, but I think Jack and I may have shared a similar feminine ideal. That must be what was going on when I flipped out over that two-page spread of the Female Furies. TJKC: Likewise, was Joe’s trip to Antarctica to fight the war inspired by Kirby’s own war experiences, leaving Roz behind to fight the Nazis, and coming back with frostbite? MICHAEL: Again, not really. Getting left behind was just what happened to women at that time. TJKC: A common misconception among Kirby fans is that

Houdini & by Eric Nolen-Weathington arry Houdini. Even now, more than 75 years after his death, his name is instantly recognizable, not only in America but throughout much of the world. He was the greatest escape artist to ever don a straitjacket. So what does he have to do with Jack Kirby? Not much, really, but you may be surprised at how much they have in common. Ehrich Weiss (Houdini’s given name) was born to Rabbi Mayer Samuel and Cecelia Weiss on March 24, 1874. He came to live in America at the age of four, and after spending nine years in the town of Appleton, WI, his family moved to a boarding house on E. 79th St. in New York City. His family had little money, so he and his three brothers, in an effort to help out, formed a 5¢ circus and called themselves the Houdins (after a famous stage magician). Ehrich, of course, was self-named Harry Houdin. From there Houdini (adding the “i” to the end) struck out on his own in vaudeville where he met with only minor success. After five years of making the rounds, he finally found his claim to fame—The Handcuff Challenge. Now with the moniker of “The King of Handcuffs,” he challenged his audiences to find a pair of handcuffs he could not escape from. They never did. With this new gimmick and endless self-promotion, Houdini soon became an international star. The short (5' 5"), powerful man further ensured his place in history with his two most famous escape acts: The Milk Can Escape, and The Water Torture Cell in which he hung upsidedown, chained and padlocked, inside a man-sized aquarium. But by 1918, Houdini had grown weary of the almost non-stop performances and decided to

Kavalier and Clay are meant to be close approximations of Simon and Kirby. Once you actually read the novel, it’s apparent they’re very different. Still, how much of Kirby or Simon is in either character? MICHAEL: I think Sammy and Jack definitely share some physical resemblance, and both idolize Cagney, John Garfield, etc., but Jack really was streetwise, I think. Sammy just pretends to be; he’s from Flatbush, not the Lower East Side. Both are sort of self-educated, in a haphazard and vibrant way. Both are inexhaustible fountains of story ideas. I don’t have a clear enough sense of Joe Simon, really, to have used him to help me form a character. TJKC: Are you a particular fan of the Kid Gang genre? I ask because you worked in mention of a Kid Gang called “The Four Freedoms” (page 318 of the hardcover edition), which is very reminiscent of the ones Joe and Jack originated. MICHAEL: Yeah, that was a pretty straight-on swipe of the Newsboy Legion, I guess. Call it an allusion. Of all the early S&K stuff that got reprinted in the back of DC books in the early ’70s, the Newsboy Legion stuff was my favorite.

What’s yours? Comics, or something else? MICHAEL: In the summer, watching a baseball game, or listening to a game on the radio. The rest of the year, opening a good novel. Actually, writing, imagining, going out to my office to work; that’s the most dependable escape of all, and I do it every day. TJKC: Finally, in your acknowledgments for the novel, you write of “the deep debt I owe in this and everything else I’ve ever written to the work of the late Jack Kirby, the King of Comics.” Would you elaborate on Jack’s influence on your career outside of the Kavalier & Clay novel, and your life in general? MICHAEL: The thing about JK, for me, is that inexhaustible imagination I mentioned before. It was the thing that drew me to him as a kid (Kamandi, so underappreciated, is I think a phenomenal display of month-in-month-out imaginativeness), and the thing I most respect and revere about him now. I thought that Alan Moore captured this wonderfully in that issue of Supreme which featured a giant floating galactic head of JK. ★

TJKC: Everyone has their own form of escape from the stresses of everyday life.

Kirby: The Artistry of Escape enter the world of Hollywood. His first role was in the film Master Mystery—he wasn’t very good. Houdini kept at it though, as an actor, a stuntman, and even as a producer. He figured that if he could capture his act on film, he could finally give up the live performances. His stage success never quite translated over to film, however. The death of Houdini’s mother hit him harder than any of the many solicited punches to his stomach ever did. Houdini revered his mother and considered her “a saint” and “an angel.” This love was considered by many to border on obsession. In 1922, Lady Doyle, the wife of Houdini’s good friend Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, offered to host a séance for Houdini in the hopes of contacting the spirit of his mother. Houdini was skeptical but agreed to try it. However, when he heard his mother’s voice speaking in English, he knew the séance was a fraud— his mother never learned a word of English. Houdini then took up a second career as a debunker of mediums—even going so far as to testify to Congress as they were writing up a bill to outlaw the

practice in 1926, the year of Houdini’s death. As you can see, though they lived different lives in slightly different times, Houdini and Kirby did have quite a few things in common: Both were of Jewish, Eastern European descent; both lived in poor sections of New York; both were short, but powerfully built; both had a strong love for their respective mothers; both had an interest in the “spirit world.” Also, both were mostly self-educated. Houdini wrote several books on magic, while Kirby wrote scores of comics and a novel he didn’t quite finish. As for Hollywood, neither man made much of a splash in Tinseltown. Houdini had a handful of unsuccessful films to his credit. The aspiring actor, Kirby, never left New York to seek his fortune on screen. He did make his way onto the small screen through his work in animation, but that’s not really what Kirby had in mind. No, the David Copperfields and Steven Spielbergs of today have the technology behind them to succeed where Houdini and Kirby could not. Both men were escape artists in their own ways; Houdini in the literal sense, but also, as with Kirby, in the figurative sense. Houdini and Kirby used their unique gifts and talents to escape the poverty of their youth. They both desired a better life for their families above all else, and each found his own path to get there. Both men became the King of their craft, and so they remain. ★

(above) Harry Houdini in his prime. (left) One of many posters for Houdini’s public appearances. (bottom) Another panel from Kirby’s autobiographical story “Street Code,” documenting his memories of his mother and the home he grew up in. ©2002 Jack Kirby Estate.

(below) The new Harry Houdini stamp, to be issued by the US Postal Service in July.

Adam M c Govern

As A Genre

Know of some Kirby-inspired work that should be covered here? Send to: Adam McGovern PO Box 257 Mt. Tabor, NJ 07878

A regular feature examining Kirby-inspired work, by Adam McGovern

hose keeping score will remember that an all-humor column was promised for this space; the amount of material to go through, and the small avalanche of other verbiage I have unloaded on this issue (check out my Simon/Cap summation and my Mister Miracle discourse, plug, plug), have pushed that theme to next time. So this issue we’ll revisit some favorite types of comics, and particularly-admired specific series, covered in our run to date. The timing was right as these books came to my attention, came to a sad close, or ran very pertinent current story arcs—and if my previously-announced timing was off, well, it’s a poorly-kept secret that I aspire to professional comics scripting, and if I’m really serious about pursuing that career I gotta start missing some deadlines.

Wonders Never Cease As we did in our inaugural column examining Tom Scioli’s 8-Opus, we begin our return to roots by spotlighting some of the indie newcomers whose emulation of the King shows how fundamental his style is to the vocabulary of comics, and how spontaneous is the positive reaction to it not only in the halls of entertainment giants mindful of its salability, but the hearts and home studios from which the next generation of creators will come. A fan counterpart to the professional cast-of-thousands Kirby tribute Fantastic Four: World’s Greatest Comics Magazine, Modern Myths is an exuberant and enjoyable homage to the Lee/Kirby heyday masterminded by California-based writer and artist Juan Gonzalez. As Erik Larsen did with the WGCM project, Gonzalez laid out the entire first issue for himself and other artists to complete; like Larsen and then some, he plotted and wrote the whole thing himself, without a collaborator. The result is an introductory tale of the “Wonder Warders,” an FF-like team of superscientists protecting humble human lives in struggles of cosmic scale. Characters walk a line between postmodern archetype and too-recognizable pastiche, but all are done with love and some hit the heights of Kirby’s own wordplay

(like the Thing-esque enforcer “David Goliath”). Some of the artists are more ready-for-prime-time than others, but the design is inspired throughout, with many a close approximation of Kirby’s great sense of psychedelic tech and spaceoperatic costumery. Gonzalez chooses the exhilarating, joined-inprogress narrative structure of a Lee or Kirby tale—we feel as if we’re coming in on issue #15 of a classic series—and while this sometimes makes the smoothness of the exposition slip out of his hands, it necessitates a brevity which is usually executed well. Gonzalez’s storytelling instincts, while action-packed, tend more toward dramatic reconciliation than bombastic fisticuffs, and this is one of many refreshing approaches that make him and most of his cohorts talents to watch. (For a copy, please send $2.50 [$3.70 in Canada] to: Juan Gonzalez Publishing, 1112 Orchard St. #1, Santa Rosa, CA 95404 [email: modmyth@hotmail.com].)

Goodnight, Bitter Prince Welcomed in our very first column, we must now bid a fond farewell to Walter Simonson’s take on Kirby’s Fourth World saga, Orion. Fourth World continuations seem to be as short-lived as they are frequent, and that’s too bad in the case of this elegant and

imaginative version—though if DC is going to keep the saga literally in rotation, with the basic conflicts cyclical and cast of characters unchanged, there couldn’t be a higher note to go out on than Simonson’s treatment. After a few issues of bumpy (though always wondrouslypenciled) scene-setting involving rehashed villainous schemes, a perfunctory Orion/Darkseid donnybrook, and boring courtly intrigues on an Orion-ruled Apokolips, Simonson got down to a riveting sequence involving Orion’s ironic mastering of the mind-controlling “AntiLife Equation” his dad had long dreamed of. Orion’s use of it to impose world-peace-or-else led to a prophetic multi-part parable about whether ends justify means, with Orion’s all-powerful omniscience supplying flashes of unexpected humor in his opponents’ anticlimactic attacks and Liar Liar-type confessions. This set up an unforgettable rematch between Orion and Darkseid, when the latter emerges from his faked demise upon realizing how badly his plot to corrupt his son has backfired. This time, rather than a mere superrumble, it was an allegorical clash of opposing principles yet moral ambiguities, truly if sadly worthy of the gods. Cast from his adoption of his own worst foe’s means into a purgatorial quest for redemption, Orion spent the next few issues in a metaphysical struggle at the center of time itself which, on the humble comic page, rivaled the psychedelia of Kubrick’s 2001 for transporting spectacle and transcendental concept; then came a grim sojourn amidst the petty-criminal netherworld on Earth, where crushing forces intersect with vulnerable innocents. Along the way, Simonson supplied some of the most satisfying resolutions of any post-Kirby creator for the original series’ loose ends—particularly, the explanation that Orion’s vaguely-defined zapping power, the AstroForce, is “the wrath of the Source,” a defensive capability of this otherwise benevolent spiritual phenomenon which can only be wielded by someone of Orion’s divided but balanced psyche of righteousness and rage. (This even provided an elegant archetypal framework for keeping the saga’s classic characterizations and structure stationary as DC’s marketers want.) In the penultimate issue’s cyberBiblical, sci-fi Greek tragedylike confrontation between Orion and a presumptuously immortal human, Simonson came up with one of pop culture’s all-time greatest expressions of gods’ dual nature as distinct, even simplistic personalities, and mysterious, contradictory composites of humans’ subconscious ideals and obsessions. All of this was presented with the finest artwork of Simonson’s career, and some of the finest by a number of guest pencilers (particularly a refreshed, downright Impressionistic John Byrne).

When Fourth World revisitations get really good they’re like rabbinic commentaries on Kirby’s definitive text; whether or not Simonson’s version is the last word on the subject, it may well remain the best.

Panther’s Replacement Returning to the more recent past, the “Enemy of the State II” story arc mentioned last issue for Marvel’s Black Panther has now grown from four episodes to five, which should be winding up as you read this. As with most of the series, it bears checking out on grounds of sheer quality— it’s worth the price of the whole arc just to read issue #42’s contrast of writer Priest’s ornate political intrigues with

more on the way. The regular characters have been interacting with the Panther and supporting cast of Kirby’s controversial mid-1970s run on the book—in Kirby’s style, while the surroundings and modern cast stay in 2000s mode. At presstime Priest was keeping the true narrative nature of this “Panther doppleganger” a closely-guarded secret, but for Kirby enthusiasts, the symbolic nature of the double seems clear, in dialogue about a positive, lively “King” who’s thought embarrassing by some but whose traits are sorely missing from the personality of the present leadership. In any case the issues are also showing artists Sal Velluto and Bob Almond to be among the most versatile mimics in the business, equally expert in drama and wit. Following right after this arc is a two-parter focusing on the Kirby-ish characters, with guest-artist Jorge Lucas, who did the Kirbyesque pages (with definitive Kirby inker Mike Royer!) in the recent Avengers one-shot The Ultron Imperative (a highly-recommended sampler of first-rate creators both contemporary and classic, including art by the moody and atmospheric John Paul Leon and the understatedly dynamic Pat Olliffe, and long stretches of scripting by veteran writers Roy Thomas and Steve Englehart). Dig for it and watch for that Panther! ★

the sequence of a super-villain spending her world-domination downtime as the tyrannical head of a fried-chicken franchise; but as reported in our previous installment, it currently has special interest for Kirby fans, and there’s 17

INNERVIEW

Marshall Rogers Inte Conducted by Jon B. Cooke, transcribed by LongBox.com Staff (Marshall Rogers burst on the otherwise dull comic book scene of the mid- to late 1970s, and caused a sensation with his work on Batman in Detective Comics, Dr. Strange for Marvel Comics, and others; but it was his 4-issue revival of Mister Miracle that impressed Kirby fans, and is still fondly remembered. This interview took place by telephone in March 2002, and was copyedited by the artist.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: How far back do you recall Jack Kirby’s work? MARSHALL ROGERS: I grew up with Kirby’s work. He’s probably the reason I wanted to get into comic books. TJKC: What work specifically?

(above) Photo of Marshall Rogers from the late 1970s. (right) Rogers pencils and Terry Austin inks on a page from Detective Comics #468, featuring Bruce Wayne’s encounter with an old Kirby character, Morgan Edge. Morgan Edge, Batman, Bruce Wayne TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

MARSHALL: Everything, but it wasn’t until he started working with Marvel that I knew what the man’s name was. Then, once I realized who the guy was drawing that work, I realized I had probably first read him when he had done either the Shield or the Fly. I don’t remember exactly which of the two, but Jack’s work was so distinctive that even as a young kid, I recognized it: “Hey, this is the same guy that did the Fly.” I went back and I checked it out and looked at the art and realized, yeah, this was the same guy. TJKC: What was it about Jack’s work that was compelling? MARSHALL: The dynamics, I guess, would be the best way to say it. Jack brought the work to life for me. It made it seem more than twodimensional to me. One thing that I remember noticing was when some villain would uproot a building from a New York City block, the pipes and the guts of the building underneath were dangling down, as compared to Superman; when he lifted a building up, it had this nice clean flat surface, you know— as if it was a toy placed

on a chess board or something—but there was always rubble and junk coming out of Jack’s buildings whenever they were lifted up. TJKC: Were you into his Atlas monster work? Did you look at those—like Tales of Suspense, Strange Tales, you know—the preMarvel hero stuff? MARSHALL: A little bit, but I don’t honestly remember seeing it straight off the shelves. I was collecting comic books as a youngster, but I didn’t get right in on the very beginning of Marvel. I ended up running around the neighborhood trading to get back issues, so I don’t remember exactly if I started out with some of the monster books and had seen them, or had picked them up during trades, etc. TJKC: Have you looked at the monster stuff since? Did you find anything of interest in there to this day?

rview MARSHALL: I guess, really, the monster genre was not my favorite genre, but I looked at everything and anything that Jack did at one point, that I could lay my hands on. TJKC: You were born in 1950, right? MARSHALL: That’s right. TJKC: So, generally speaking, you started picking them up around ’62? Were you about 11 or 12 years old? MARSHALL: No, I was reading comic books earlier than that. TJKC: I meant the Marvel stuff specifically. You said you didn’t get in on the ground floor necessarily. MARSHALL: I just missed it because a friend of mine had Amazing Fantasy #15 that Spider-Man first appeared in. Then I ended up buying the second issue of Spider-Man, but it wasn’t like I was hitting the newsstand every week to get them, so it was hit and miss in the beginning. TJKC: Did you find Fantastic Four compelling the minute you encountered it? MARSHALL: Yeah, and actually X-Men was one of my favorite titles. That was the one I think I really glommed onto because I always felt I had large feet and I really related to the Beast. (laughter) I wanted to be able to walk up the sides of a building. That was one of the things about Jack’s work, particularly in the beginning, that I think was the most attractive thing to me. The situations were more downto-earth. They weren’t as fantastic as the DC stuff. It was Jack creating characters that would walk up the side of a building or shrink to the size of an ant. It was more basic fantasy elements rather than the fantastical type of elements. The Fantastic Four was certainly a departure from that, but his other stuff was even more compelling to me, and Thor would not necessarily be included in that. I think the work of his I found most compelling were the simple fantasy elements, like shrinking down to a real small size or being able to swing around a building as if you were on a jungle vine. TJKC: Did you also clue into Stan Lee’s contributions to it? MARSHALL: In the beginning I was attracted to the artwork. I realized Stan’s name from the signatures. When I got a comic book, I would basically flip though the pages just to see the artwork and then go back and read the story later on. Particularly with Jack’s work, you could tell what the story was without having to read the captions.

TJKC: The X-Men was a title on which he later did quite loose breakdowns. Could you still see the Kirby through the guys who inked and finished the penciled stuff? MARSHALL: I could, and I was able to quickly tell as soon as Jack stopped contributing to it as a ghost, because the layout and dynamics just took a vast turn, and became very different. TJKC: Prior to Marvel, did you collect comics? Did you save them or were you a reader? MARSHALL: I was a reader. TJKC: And once you got bit by the Marvel bug, did you continue to read DC comics or did you pass them by?

MARSHALL: I always went back to Batman, hoping to see that “something” that I’d always wanted to see, but—. TJKC: You didn’t see it. MARSHALL: No, I never did, you’re right. TJKC: So did you remain with Marvel pretty much throughout your teen years? MARSHALL: Well, I don’t know; about 15 or 16 I started getting interested in girls and losing interest in comics. Then once I got into college, I started to take up the interest again. It coincided with a serious interest in getting into the business. TJKC: Were you losing interest in the comics just as Jack was getting into the Galactus trilogy, for 19

instance, and when the cosmic comics came on, with the introduction of the Silver Surfer? MARSHALL: The introduction of the Silver Surfer was a little bit earlier, then. I was still reading the Fantastic Four on a regular basis when the Silver Surfer first appeared. I’m sure I was collecting because if I read it, I was putting it into my pile. TJKC: Did you spark to the Surfer? Did you think he was cool? MARSHALL: It was another interesting character, but a little too much like Superman. I prefer characters that have got fallibilities. I’m not a big Superman fan because at this point he can basically do anything, so where is the conflict in the storyline? It was really very much the same with Silver Surfer, even though I drew the Surfer and enjoyed working on it. I always felt the Surfer was more interesting as a supporting character within the context of the Fantastic Four; as a foil, he always worked very interestingly. I had read some of the Buscema stories, but more because John was such a great artist. I really enjoyed the Buscema/Palmer artwork team. I think they are one of the best things to come down the pike. TJKC: Right after the FF virtually meet God with the Galactus trilogy was “This Man, This Monster,” which was a very personal story. It had fantastic elements to it, but it was really a character study, and you were saying that Jack always came back to the personal. Did you find that story of interest at all? MARSHALL: Yeah, I did. One of things that I feel the Fantastic Four lost as it moved away from Jack was that conflict of the Thing as a beast, and wanting to get back to human form. TJKC: Did you draw your own version of Kirby comics when you were a kid? MARSHALL: Actually, what I would do is swipe Jack’s artwork and create my own characters that were all thinly veiled ripoffs of Jack’s content. TJKC: You and 500 other artists. 20

MARSHALL: I’m sure that is the low number. TJKC: What characters specifically did you swipe? Do you remember their names? MARSHALL: Yes, I did a Captain America rip-off I called Sergeant State. (laughter) TJKC: Did he have a shield and—? MARSHALL: Absolutely, and he had a black costume

as compared to the red, white, and blue. It was always Captain America models that I used to rip off. Particularly when Jack was doing “Captain America” in Tales of Suspense when it shared the title with “Iron Man,” all that stuff was just choreography of fight scenes, and Jack did a lot of the most interesting poses in that work. TJKC: At the same time that Cap was in Tales of Suspense, his early exploits were being reprinted in

Fantasy Masterpieces. Did you see those and did you realize that was early Kirby work? MARSHALL: Yes, I did, and yes, I did. (laughter) His style when he did the Fly was still very reminiscent of his work from the ’40s— the more elongated elastic body—and like I said, while there wasn’t any credit on the Fly work, after seeing Jack’s work on his early Marvels, I realized that it was the same guy that had done the Fly. So that work was recognizable. My favorite period of Kirby was actually in the early Marvel days after that very elongated elastic figure, and before he went into his geometric forms: The first 20 issues of Fantastic Four, the first 15 issues of the Torch’s feature in Strange Tales, where he had actually brought back a counterfeit Captain America before they resurrected Cap in the Avengers. That era was probably, to me, Jack’s most compelling.

MARSHALL: Jack’s style had changed by that point, but that was too plastic for my preferences. I like a little bit more grit in the character rather than being slickly finished. I don’t like the new cartoon characters with airbrush because there’s too much shine on them. It makes them seem plastic rather than organic and that was the same with Dick’s work. I particularly liked the issues of Sgt. Fury with Dick’s inking. TJKC: There was probably a lot of finish work by Dick in that stuff. MARSHALL: Very likely, but it was always Jack’s layouts. Again, not to detract from Dick Ayers’ talent, but when he took over the full chores on Sgt. Fury, it didn’t have the same feel for me, and I didn’t follow the book as much as when Jack was drawing it. TJKC: When did you go to college?

TJKC: Was that stuff overwhelmingly inked by Dick Ayers?

MARSHALL: I went to college from 1970 to about ’73.

MARSHALL: I think so; I think Dick was his primary inker at that point. I had a chance to talk to Dick at one point and I told him that I really liked his work on it because he was a more organic inker than Joe Sinnott. Joe had a very clean line and he really worked well on the Fantastic Four, but I liked the organic body that Dick gave to Jack’s work.

TJKC: Did you encounter Jack’s Fourth World material?

TJKC: Did you like Mike Royer’s work?

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah, I picked that up because his name still was synonymous to comic book stuff for me. TJKC: Had you been aware that he had quit Marvel? MARSHALL: Yes, I had realized that he had left the Fantastic Four. TJKC: And did you have any feelings about that? You obviously preferred Marvel comics. MARSHALL: I preferred Jack’s work, is really what it was. TJKC: Did you get into Ditko’s work? MARSHALL: Absolutely, but when Ditko left Spider-Man it wasn’t as compelling to me. It took a different spin. Now in the end, when obviously there was some tension between Lee and Ditko, in the final issues of Spider-Man, it wasn’t like I was a big Ditko fan. I liked the Lee/Ditko team when they were really plugging along. I thought the first 25 issues of Spider-Man were terrific, and after that something was changing underneath.

(previous page) Kirby pencils to Mister Miracle #8, wherein Scott Free returned to Apokolips, and got a guided/guarded tour of the planet’s even uglier underbelly. Marshall Rogers and Steve Englehart had Scott return once again in Mister Miracle #22, and shown here is a fullpage of Darkseid from that issue. At a 1978 convention appearance in Atlanta, GA (attended by TJKC editor John Morrow), Marshall commented that he hung the original art for this page by his front door to scare away salesmen! All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

TJKC: So you could almost feel the tension? MARSHALL: Well, this is more in retrospect rather than on-the-spot recognition at the time. TJKC: But obviously you have looked over that stuff in a sense, right? MARSHALL: Oh yeah, right. TJKC: About the Fourth World stuff, did you like it? MARSHALL: I thought it was interesting, but it wasn’t.... Jack is a great storyteller, but he’s not a writer, and the team of Lee and Kirby was a good combination. I think Jack needed someone to write a little more depth into 21

Englehart, when people talk about your work in the ’70s. Do you have people coming up to you saying, “Gosh, I love that stuff,” with the implication that “Gosh, I wish you did stuff like that again”? MARSHALL: Not quite in that context, no. I certainly had a lot of compliments on the work I did with Englehart and Terry Austin. Whenever that work is talked about, I have to mention those two collaborators because it was the three of us together that brought the success of the work that was and is there. It wouldn’t have been the same if one of the three was somebody else. TJKC: Jack was aligned with Joe Simon in the beginning and also with Stan Lee later, and one of the attractions of working with DC was that he was able to spread his wings and go by himself—to do it his way. Did you ever experience any frustration with it always being looked at as a collaborative effort, and that you would like to have gone out and done it your way? Are you a storyteller? MARSHALL: Well, yes, there is an element there, but at the same time I like working with other people because it bounces more ideas off, and I think a better product is the result of it. TJKC: So when you read the Fourth World stuff, did you follow it? Did you buy all the issues? MARSHALL: For the most part, yes. The Mister Miracle character is the one that I kept up with most regularly. In the Forever People, I felt that Jack was trying to do hippies that he didn’t quite understand, and the Orion stuff was interesting but not as compelling to me as Mister Miracle. TJKC: Was it because it got down to the personal level of Scott Free being just a single guy on the run? MARSHALL: I guess so, and it was more Earth-oriented, whereas New Gods had a little bit more of a cosmic edge to it. TJKC: It’s interesting as I look through your work, that—and correct me if I’m wrong—pretty much you’ve done individual characters. You haven’t done team books.

(above) Rogers full-page art from Mister Miracle #22, complete with “KIR BOOM” sound effect! For more coverage of Marshall’s incredible 1970s Batman work (including unseen art), be sure to pick up TwoMorrows’ new Comic Book Artist Collection, Volume Two, on sale now. It reprints the sold-out CBA #5 and #6 (dealing with 1970s DC and Marvel comics), plus more than 50 new pages covering Marshall’s work with Steve Englehart, a feature on DC’s Cancelled Comic Cavalcade, and more, all behind this nifty new Rogers cover! (next page) More Kirby pencils from Mister Miracle #8. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

the dialogue between characters, because Jack’s writing was more sort of a stating of the obvious rather than bringing out a deeper human element with his dialogue. TJKC: But certainly the stories themselves dealt with some complex issues? MARSHALL: Absolutely, but he was also getting into larger concepts rather than human endeavor concepts. TJKC: So do you think it was, in the end, the collaboration with Stan Lee which really made the chemistry that you enjoyed so much? MARSHALL: In retrospect, I would say so. It was first through Lennon and McCartney that I realized what the real solidity of collaborative work is. There is hardly a Beatles song that I don’t enjoy, but I can’t say that about every piece of John’s solo work or certainly Paul’s solo work. When they were collaborating, each brought in their own element that gave a totality that went beyond the individual, and I think it was the same with the Lee/Kirby stuff. TJKC: You obviously have been associated with two collaborators, Steve Gerber and Steve

MARSHALL: That’s true, I prefer an individual character to a team; but more because with a team book, too often they try to put too many characters in each panel, and it doesn’t allow me as an artist to compose the page as easily as some books with a single character do. I consider myself to be a storyteller first, a cartoonist second, and an artist third. In the storytelling, composition is an important element to it, and with team books with so many characters, first everyone has to be drawn really small, and everything becomes very cluttered per panel. With a single character, I am able to open up more. Negative space is very important in design, composition, and storytelling as far as I’m concerned. You don’t get a lot of chances for that. TJKC: Not only compositionally, but somewhat philosophically you are interested in single characters, right? MARSHALL: Well, yes. TJKC: Because it equals clarity in storytelling. MARSHALL: You don’t get as many peripheral elements cluttering up the flow of the total book. TJKC: How did the collaboration for Mister Miracle take place? MARSHALL: Well, like the work on Detective, it really wasn’t a collaboration. Steve wrote the stories and then ended up going to Europe to work on a novel, and I would do the art. I like the intensity of working that way. It gave me something to dig my teeth into and I brought out everything that I thought Englehart was trying to achieve. I only did 4 issues or Mister Miracle, and Steve Gerber picked up the storyline and Mike Golden picked up the art. TJKC: Just backing up just a little bit: You continued to buy Mister Miracle when Kirby was doing it. Where there any disappointment when it left the Fourth World canvas, so to speak, and perhaps got more juvenile with Shilo Norman showing up? MARSHALL: Yeah, the Fourth World stuff never fully clicked for

me. I always enjoyed Jack’s artwork but the stories didn’t quite hit the nail on the head for me. I think that’s the way to put it. TJKC: But when you started working on the title when it was revived (#19), you did go back and I would assume re-read all the—? MARSHALL: Absolutely, I wanted to try to capture some of the flavor and grandiose elements that Jack always put into his work. It was very obvious that I was following in Jack’s footsteps and I couldn’t ignore what he had done. I couldn’t draw like Jack Kirby but I wanted to try to bring in some of the flavor

that I thought Jack instilled into the work.

titles other than the art? Did you follow them?

TJKC: Right. Even if you weren’t a big follower of the Fourth World were you disappointed when the book was initially cancelled? Did you think something was going on there or had you pretty much just passed it by?

MARSHALL: Yes I did, and I guess my overall feeling was that Jack needed an editor and a collaborator. As a one-man force, he was missing some bits that could have been added if there was a collaboration going on with him.

MARSHALL: It was just sort of what I considered to be inevitable. It had its day, but I didn’t think it had the same guts as some of his earlier stuff.

TJKC: How would you characterize your experience on Mister Miracle as the artist? It was obviously early in your career, right?

TJKC: So the replacement titles, Kamandi and the Demon—did you find anything of interest in those

MARSHALL: Yeah, it was. In fact it was basically in tandem with the Batman work. I don’t quite know how to put it. I was just really elated that I had a chance—that I was working in the comics and had a chance to do what I had set out to pursue. I was riding high, very elated that I was working on titles of that stature. TJKC: On your first issue it seems like there was a collaboration of inkers, unless Ilya Hunch is a real person. MARSHALL: No, I was working in the back of a commercial studio owned by Neal and Dick Giordano. TJKC: Continuity. MARSHALL: That’s right, and I would do an odd job for them every once and a while, but I was not part of the Continuity team that was doing the commercial art that Neal and Dick were. It was a meeting place for a lot of different artists. There were number of artists who were renting space in the back of the studio, like I was, and then when people would come into town to drop off work, very often they would drop by Continuity as sort of a watering hole. I thought it would be an interesting concept to have different artists ink the myriad characters that were appearing in Mister Miracle throughout the book, so they’d have a continuous look to them. So I’d ask people that were either around or would drop in if they were interested in working on this, and I got a very good reception. That’s how Ilya Hunch happened about. (laughter) TJKC: Let me take a wild guess. Did you ink the Mister Miracle character? MARSHALL: Yes, I did. TJKC: Jack Abel did Highfather and Oberon? MARSHALL: No, Jack Abel did Highfather and Alan Weiss did Oberon. TJKC: Bob McLeod did Granny Goodness? MARSHALL: Granny Goodness was Mike Nasser, and Terry 23

(below) Terry (Vermin Vundabar) Austin had each of the other inkers sign this Mister Miracle #19 page, including Dick (Big Barda) Giordano, Mike (Granny Goodness) Nasser, and Al (Kanto) Milgrom. Rogers inked Mister Miracle and the rest of the book. (next page) Kirby pencils from Mister Miracle #5, showcasing a character with one of the all-time classic Kirby names, Vermin Vundabar. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

Austin was in there also. He did a little German character who was like Granny’s henchmen: Vermin Vundabar. TJKC: Kanto is done by Al Milgrom. MARSHALL: Right. (laughter) Dick Giordano inked Barda, and Neal Adams inked Mister Miracle’s eyes on the splash page, because I “wanted them to be really compelling.” TJKC: So that was an interesting experiment to do. Did you like it? MARSHALL: As a matter of fact, I thought it was really successful. I liked that issue. TJKC: Yeah, it’s a beautiful job and I will never forget picking it up off the stands. It was at a time when it really seemed to me to be a doldrums for comics. I think the two bright spots that took place were your Mister Miracle, and then Mike Golden took over; especially with Russ Heath’s inks, it was wonderful. MARSHALL: Absolutely.

TJKC: And your work with Terry and Steve on Batman, of course. Otherwise, the field didn’t seem to be jumping up with new ideas. Did you feel like you were one of the first of a new generation that was coming into comics? You know, you have the Bernie Wrightson generation of Jim Starlin and a lot of those guys coming in through the late ’60s and early ’70s. Then there was your generation, for instance, with you and then Frank Miller. MARSHALL: Actually, I am part of the Wrightson, Kaluta, Weiss, Chaykin, Simonson generation. I just got in on the end of it. We are basically all contemporaries. It just took me longer to get my break than those guys. It was obviously a new generation that was happening. TJKC: How would you overall assess your work on Mister Miracle? Did you leave knowing that yes, I’ve done enough? You did four issues; were you satisfied with the work? MARSHALL: Yeah, I was satisfied with what I did, and actually the leaving was more for a personal reason rather than anything else. It had to do more with my work on the Batman. It had come down to a point where I felt I needed to be inking some of my work to understand penciling better, and within the structure of DC they needed to me to just pencil rather than to do pencils and inks. I was talking with Julie Schwartz one day and this sort of came up and I was given the option of inking the job I did with Denny O’Neil, the train story. The title had something to do with a ticket but I don’t remember the title name exactly. Julie gave me the option, I could either ink that story or I could pencil the next issue that was going to be due—but obviously because I wasn’t a very prolific worker, I didn’t turn out my work quickly, I wouldn’t be able to do both and so I did opt to ink the job. That took me out of the loop of penciling on Batman and there were a couple of offers from outside the mainstream, so I opted to pursue that because they would give me the chance to pencil and ink my work. So that’s why I also ended up leaving Mister Miracle. TJKC: Was it simultaneous with Batman? MARSHALL: Actually it was very much simultaneous because both of them were bi-monthly books and I would start doing them alternately—Batman one month, Mister Miracle the other month. It’s not quite that because I had 6 issues of Batman and 4 issues of Mister Miracle, but the exact chronology I don’t remember off the top of my head. TJKC: There was an inker of Jack’s work— some call him a notorious inker—that you also had working on your material. Vince Colletta worked on two issues. MARSHALL: Absolutely, I loved Vinnie Colletta as a person, and because Vinnie was the man that got me into comic books. Marie Severin also, over at Marvel, gave me my very first break, but then it was Vinnie in the role of art director at DC Comics that gave me my first assignment there. Vinnie was actually a very talented artist, but he was a backbone of the industry. When an editor needed a book inked overnight, Vinnie would be the man to be called because he could do 28 pages in 24 hours, and if you are going to do something like that obviously the work was going to look like Vinnie’s work did. He was very much aware of what he was doing and when he was first assigned to ink my work, we talked about

it. You’ll notice that in my fourth issue, a couple of pages are inked by Vinnie, but we talked about it and he handed over the inking chores to me because he understood what I was trying to do. TJKC: But on the last book there’s also Rick Bryant and a John Fuller. MARSHALL: That’s right. Again, I’m not the quickest worker around. John was also renting space at Continuity. TJKC: Who is John Fuller? MARSHALL: John Fuller was a struggling artist looking to get in also, and a nice guy, so I had him help me with the backgrounds, and Rick Bryant also. Rick was doing some science-fiction illustrations, I believe, and a little bit of work for other people, and I needed help in meeting my deadline. TJKC: John Harkness was credited with the story for your last issue; that seems like a pseudonym. MARSHALL: It was an Englehart story, and I don’t know why the pseudonym was used instead of his own name. TJKC: How was Larry Hama as an editor? MARSHALL: Very good. Larry gave me a lot of range with what I was doing. TJKC: Was there comparison, for instance, to Julie Schwartz, who was your other editor? Obviously Larry started out as an artist, worked at Continuity for a number of years. He’s got an artist’s sensibility. Julie is literary. MARSHALL: Yes, and Larry draws, also. TJKC: Is there a difference between the styles that you could see? Julie is renowned for being a real hands-on guy, but not so much for the art though. MARSHALL: Julie was the first to admit that, but Larry allowed me to do what I wanted to do. He didn’t step on my work at all. His major editorial concern was that a title got out on time, and he allowed his creators to be creative and do what they wanted to do. Had I gone too far afield and if I were to do something totally wrong, he would have called me on it; but while our approaches to comics are quite different, he didn’t allow his personal take on storytelling to interfere with what I wanted to do with the storytelling, and he was very supportive. TJKC: But he made it clear what his take was, to perhaps instruct you? MARSHALL: Not in our editorial meetings. I knew Larry from Continuity before I started working with him on Mister Miracle and we had a number of different conversations on drawing and storytelling. Larry was an assistant to Wally Wood and was very much a product of Woody’s mentoring. He developed his own style, by all means, but he felt that the way that Woody had established storytelling was very valid. At the same time, like I said previously, he wasn’t so myopic that he thought this is the only

way to tell a story, and allowed me to approach it from my own stylization.

last few pages to get on time so the schedule could be maintained.

TJKC: Again, to just sum up Mister Miracle: Was it a fun book to work on?

TJKC: Did you ever meet Jack?

MARSHALL: Oh, absolutely, I had a great time; probably not as good a time as I could’ve had, because I was right in the middle of a fever pitch on all deadlines, so it needed to get done as compared to really sitting back and enjoying what I was doing. If I were to do that I would be a worse contributor. I always came in very close to my deadlines, I never created a gap in the schedule, but I’m sure my editors were sitting on pins and needles waiting for those

MARSHALL: Yes, I did. It was at a San Diego Con in the early ’70s. I had done the work on Mister Miracle and I wasn’t so presumptuous that I would assume that he was really aware of what I had done, and I was still in awe of the man. I just approached and without introducing myself, I thanked him for taking a young child’s imagination beyond its limits. I think that’s what I said, and there was a sparkle in Jack’s eye that said he appreciated that compliment. ★ 25

Gallery

On the following pages are a plethora of pencils from various Mister Miracle issues, as follows: Issue #5 (pages 26-28), #6 (pages 29-33), #7 (pages 34-37, including a “Young Scott Free” story), and #8 (pages 38-39 and 42-43). Our centerfold (pages 40-41) features the two-page spread from Mister Miracle #11, inked by Mike Royer. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

TRIBUTE

2001 Kirby Tribute Panel Held at Comicon International: San Diego on July 22, 2001 (Featuring Will Eisner, John Buscema, John Romita, and Mike Royer, moderated by Mark Evanier, transcribed by Brian K. Morris) MARK EVANIER: Good afternoon. Welcome to the Eighth Jack Kirby Tribute Panel, and my eleventh panel of this convention. (applause) I’m probably Mark Evanier and I’ve made a rule that I do not go to any convention that will not let me host a Jack Kirby Tribute Panel. Actually, in some cases, that’s superfluous because we’ve been talking about Jack on half the panels I’ve done here

so far. I just did a Russell Myers panel and we brought him up in there, too. Jack was an amazing gentleman. You all know that, and many of you had the pleasure of knowing him and meeting him. Let me introduce the dais of people we have assembled and I’ll talk to them about Jack for a while, then we’re going to show a videotape that is not one of the happier moments of Jack’s life, unfortunately, but which is part of the historical record. It is a two-part tape, the first part of which is Johnny Carson libeling Jack Kirby, and the second half is Johnny Carson apologizing to Jack Kirby. (applause) Jack liked pretty much everybody in comics. I don’t

WILL EISNER: I hate to tell you what it took to get one. (laughs) JOHN ROMITA: You didn’t know the right people. (laughs) EVANIER: So you’ve finally done work that lives up to the standards of Will Eisner. (laughs) EISNER: I lied about my age. (laughs) EVANIER: And here to my left is a gentleman that Jack handpicked as his favorite inker for the last twenty years of his life. I don’t think people realize how hard this man worked. To ink everything Jack Kirby did, alone... well, a lot of people could not have done that, even badly. To ink it and letter it so well under those time constraints for that rotten money was an amazing achievement. We owe an awful lot of thanks to Mr. Mike Royer. (applause) Let me also introduce in the audience a couple of people very briefly. When I was working for Jack, I had the pleasure of having as my friend and colleague and partner and co-conspirator, a gentleman who did an awful lot of work for Jack personally and professionally, and was a lifelong friend of the family, Mr. Steve Sherman. (applause) And Jack’s other favorite inker in the last decade or two of his life, and a very close member of the Kirby family—I mean “family” in the very best sense of the word because he was practically almost blood over there, Mr. Mike Thibodeaux. (applause) I also do see one other person here. Jack had an amazing ability to get into trouble, usually not of his own making, and he had two attorneys throughout most of the Eighties and Nineties who were dealing with these problems. One was a man by the name of Steve Rohde who is now a high muck-a-muck in the ACLU. He spends one hour a week making money as a lawyer and fifty hours a week protecting civil rights. His former collaborator and partner is now in his own practice and I knew him mostly as a voice on the phone, dealing with all of Jack’s problems, calling me in exasperation at whatever stupid thing Marvel was claiming this week. This is Mr. Paul Levine over here. (applause) I’m going to start with Mr. Eisner—and, by the way, you all bought this, right? (holds up Eisner’s book Shop Talk to wild applause) I know you’ve told this story before but you never told it at one of these panels, about hiring Jack Kirby and his coming to work for your studio—and at some point, you’ve got to tell the towel story. (laughs) Tell us about the operation that Jack came into. EISNER: Well, the company was Eisner and Iger. I former a company with Jerry Iger who’d been formerly the editor of Wow, What A Magazine that collapsed after two issues. We owned a shop producing, or packaging, comics. In those days, the pulp magazines were dying and the publishers who were still trying to survive, were looking for other things to publish. They were publishing comic magazines, as we called them in those days. They weren’t called “comic books.” Then, as it came to pass, into my shop comes this kid named Jacob Kurtzberg. Whatever happened to him, I don’t know. (laughs) He kind of looked like John Garfield to

A French Kirby Exhibition (or nearly)! by Jean Depelley and Philippe Jecker The 2002 Angoulême International Comics Festival (which took place last January 24th-27th) was a nice opportunity for European comics fans to admire a wonderful display of originals from the greatest US comics artists, and the King was not forgotten! The CNBDI (standing for National Center for International Comics) is a one-of-a-kind museum in France, since it presents original comics art only and has been doing so these past twelve years, as well as organizing important thematic exhibitions focused on the nominated artists once every year during the Festival. Although it usually displays a wonderful collection of classic French Belgium “bande dessinée” (including art from Hergé, Jijé, Franquin, and Moebius), US comics are also well-represented, with samples from the Golden Age of comic strips, EC, underground, and mainstream super-hero comics. The 2002 edition celebrated nominated artist Martin Veyron’s sophisticated, Parisian humor, but it was the US artists’ exhibition that definitely caught the public interest. The museum authorities (around Jean-Pierre Mercier and Thierry Groensteen) decided to open their holdings, and displayed a fantastic selection of art “made in the USA,” with a very original scenography created by Marie-Annick Beauvery which occupied two floors of the CNBDI. First, the visitor was introduced to American comics by a comic book store reconstruction (much different than our French shops!), before admiring samples of modern independent artists (featuring art by Jill Thomson, Jeff Smith, Mike Mignola, and others). Then, upstairs began a real feast for the eyes: a wonderful Kirby Torch poster (statted from a Kirby original) welcomed the fan! The tone was set; pages of the greatest artists were showcased under the moody lights of the museum, including George Herriman, Charles M. Schulz, George McManus, Robert Crumb, Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, Burne Hogarth, Joe Kubert, Jack Davis, Barry Smith, Jeff Jones, as well as a special exhibition of Will Eisner’s Spirit! (Will was attending the Festival as guest of honor and, by the way, he likes TJKC! ) In the middle of these treasures, three wonderful Kirby pages, intelligently chosen to show different inkers on Jack’s work, were presented:

remember ever hearing of a writer or artist he didn’t like, the lowest being those people whose books he felt were highly derivative or who he felt were just imitating or tracing other people’s works. That certainly did not apply to any of these gentlemen. He could not mention Johnny Romita without the phrase, “the guy who saved Spider-Man.” When Jack went over to DC, one of the things he very much wanted to do was a very sophisticated romance comic. Eventually, the idea got dumbed down into that True Divorce Cases/Soul Love thing which we did that Jack never really understood. Through it all, he kept mentioning how much he wanted to get this man to work with him. He truly admired his work; Mr. Johnny Romita, ladies and gentlemen. (applause) Another artist for whom Jack never had anything but the highest regard was the gentleman who followed him on the Fantastic Four and Thor. My first question, when we get to him, will be, “Just what’s it like to follow Jack Kirby on Fantastic Four and Thor?” (laughs) Those of us who felt a certain loss when Jack left those books were more than delighted to see the expert handiwork of Marvel’s supreme penciler, Mr. John Buscema. (applause) And if you said to Jack, “Who do you really admire in comics?”, the first two names heard would be Bill Everett or this gentleman, whom he especially admired, not only as an artist but as a role model. I think Will was almost a father figure, in a way. He was in the business about an hour before Jack. (laughs) And we’re going to talk about that a little bit. But actually, this man finally achieved something the other night when he actually won an Eisner Award. (laughs, applause) Is that your first Eisner? I’ve got three of them, and that’s your first?

• Fantastic Four Annual #1, page 28 from the “Sub-Mariner Vs. The Human Race” story, inked by Dick Ayers (from which the Torch art had been swiped for the poster) • Thor #130 page 5, (not too badly) inked by Colletta • Fantastic Four #97, page 4, inked by Frank Giacoia One complaint: the frames made it impossible to read Jack’s margin notes and give a clear shot on the Marvel method, but the art spoke for itself: brilliant, energetic and inspiring! If consideration was proportional to the amount of art displayed, Kirby was really honored in Angoulême as he had as many pages displayed as Foster or Hogarth, and actually more than anyone else!

me at the time. I think he thought he was John Garfield, and he got to working in the shop. He was one of the hardest-working guys in the shop, very serious, and... the towel story. (laughs) EVANIER: The story that Jack told me was that he saw Wow and he wanted to be part of it. He went to the address in the magazine and it was out of business. Someone there told him about Eisner and Iger and sent him up there. EISNER: And actually, the shop resembled an Egyptian slave galley. We were out in the Nile, guys are sitting all around and I’m sitting at the head, beating the drums, (laughs) but it was such a new field that, really, anything you did was innovative. Jack sat on the right-hand side of the wall and drew in some miniature room. The penciling guys were sitting alongside the wall—Bob Powell, Chuck Mazoujian, and George Tuska. At my big desk, I would sit down and rough out the initial characters and pass them down the line and back up, almost like an animation studio. We were trying very hard to make it profitable because we were getting five dollars a page for the work. I was being very innovative from a production point of view because, in those days, people were working on salary. They were not working freelance because I reasoned that if I was going to get any quality work out of them, I had to have them on salary. It’s very difficult to tell a freelancer to change panel three and move it over to panel five because it’s going to cost money. The guy who’s getting salary, he’d be very happy to change it. Jack was very accommodating, very easy to work with. A lot was going on and the shop grew. It started out with, maybe, five people. We were up to about ten or fifteen people at the time. We got to move to a larger office on 42nd Street, right across the street from the News Building, and we had two offices, two rooms; one great, wide one where all the artists worked and a little front room. For the artists, it was a big office building. Therefore, we decided we needed a towel service. So we subscribed to a company that would bring in towels every two or three days, changing them. Of course, we didn’t ask questions. Well, one day, I was in the office and Iger, who was my partner at the time, came in to me and he said, “Hey, there’s this guy out there who wants to come in and talk about the towel service.” He said, “You’re in charge of production,” meaning I was the partner in charge of producing. Iger was the businessman. He was maybe thirteen years older than me. Therefore, he was the businessman. So I went out and there stands this guy, straight out of a Mickey Spillane movie, with a black hat and a white tie and a black shirt, looking like he broke a nose, speaking “like dis.” He said, “I’m in charge of the towel service,” and I said, “Well, we want to change the towel service. We’re not 46

happy with your company because the towels are not coming out white,” and so forth. “Well, you know,” he said, “we got the franchise here.” (laughs) So I said, “Well, I know you have but I called a couple of other companies and none of them wanted to take on our account. They said, ‘It’s not our territory.’” So he said, “Look, we don’t want to have no trouble with you. We want everything to go nice, see?” (laughs) So he says, “You tell me what your problem is, I’ll try to fix it.” So I said, “Well, I want more towels.” He said, “I can’t get you more towels. Only four towels.” By the way, his voice is getting a little stronger and I’m getting a little worked up. I was getting a little angry and suddenly, out of the back, comes Jack. This guy is about 6' 2" and Jack’s about 4' 3". (laughs) Jack says to me, “Hey, boss.” He always called me “boss.” Even through all of his life he always called

me “boss.” He said, “Both of you, just a minute. I’ll take care of this,” and he looks at this guy and said, “What do you want, you big ox?” The guy looks with terror at this little guy. Jack says, “Look, we don’t want any of your crap from you. We don’t like your damn towel service. Now, get the hell out of here.” (laughs) Now I figure I’m going to be mopping up the blood off the floor. (laughs) To my amazement, to my astonishment, this big guy turned around and walked out. (laughs) Jack says to me, “He comes back again, call me. I’ll take care of him.” (laughs) That was Jack. He changed his name very shortly from Jacob Kurtzberg, or whatever it was, to “Jack Curtiss.” He was doing the Count of Monte Cristo story at the time. Then he changed it later on to another one and became “Jack Kirby,” but it was always a joy to work with this guy. I always enjoyed working with him. I didn’t see him after he left and joined up with Joe Simon, I didn’t see him until many years later, here at this convention, where we were really going to talk to each other; and this interview that I tried to do with him [for Spirit Magazine #39, conducted circa 1982], more than any-

thing, it was a conversation. Listen, it was a difficult one because by then, he had been shown he had all these years of difficulty with people, as you outlined, and I found that we couldn’t talk to each other. Anyway, that’s the story that you wanted to hear. EVANIER: When he first came to you with his samples, you looked at them, you said, “This guy’s good enough to work for me.” Did you see in that set of samples that this man might go on to something beyond that? EISNER: That’s an interesting, very important question because nobody in the shop, in my shop, believed that there was any real future, other than to go “uptown,” to be a real artist “uptown.” Nobody even assumed there would be any future in comics. I’m the only man in the shop who almost fanatically dreamed that he was going to spend the rest of his life in this business. Nobody in my shop had plans for the rest of their life in this business. There wasn’t enough money, and to Jack, this was piecework but he was also just working. Actually, it was a wonderful time when you look back at it because you were learning while you were working. EVANIER: After he left, he got the newspaper strip, The Lone Rider. He said that the samples had improved as he worked and learned

from you and all the people around you. EISNER: Well, that was the advantage to the shop and to the guys working on salary. It enabled me to create what I felt was the only way we would survive as a small shop, which was to produce good material. When I look back, the truth was I was a player/manager because I was working too, alongside the guys, and we literally learned from each other. My shop was constantly raided by other publishers who were coming into the field because we were a source of talent. Keep in mind there was no talent floating around the city at that time. There were no precedents. We were just artists coming from all over the place. Jack was not so much interested in writing as he was in producing good art. He was a strong draftsman from the very beginning, no question about it. EVANIER: So when you saw him starting to become prominent in the comic pages, you were not the least surprised? EISNER: Oh no, no. It was very obvious when he left—actually, he left to join Joe Simon to work for Victor Fox. EVANIER: And you had many run-ins with Fox. EISNER: Oh, yes. (laughs) Oh, yes. EVANIER: Tell us a little about Victor Fox. EISNER: Victor Fox was a feisty little man. If Jack Kirby was John Garfield, Fox was Edward G. Robinson. Victor Fox had been an accountant for Detective Comics, which was owned by a fella named Harry Donenfeld, which was the predecessor of DC, and they had a character named Superman which was selling very, very well. Superman— and I tell you parenthetically—was the result of one of my great business decisions in my life. Two guys from Cleveland wrote to me about two years before that. They sent in two comics which they wanted to show. One was called Spot, the other was called Superman. It was Siegel and Shuster. I wrote them this long, very, very erudite letter apprising them that they weren’t ready for the big time, to stay in Cleveland. (laughs) Go for another year to the art school and polish up their stuff. At any rate, Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz built this company very

(previous page, top) Royer-inked page from the never published In The Days Of The Mob #2 story “Kid Twist,” showing the gangster-types Kirby knew well from his early days in New York’s Lower East Side. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

doesn’t it?” He said, “Who cares? He’s willing to pay for it, don’t argue.” (laughs) He said, “You’ve got this idea you want to be a famous artist. Forget that. Just turn it out.” Well, I did the thing, and of course, very shortly afterwards, Victor Fox was sued by DC Comics. I get this call from Fox to come over to his office. I come over and sit down and he says, “Listen, they’re gonna subpoena you. You know, I owe you some money. It’s close to three thousand dollars.” Then, it was three thousand dollars. It would be about three hundred thousand today. Anyway, it’s big money and he said, “You know, if I’m sued, and you say the wrong thing, you ain’t gonna get no money.” Well, Iger is standing there and he says, “Hey, do whatever he says.” I said, “He’s asking me to go into court and lie. That’s illegal.” My partner said, “The problem with you is you have this naive idea. You’re just a kid, nineteen years old. Go in and do what he tells you.” Anyway, I couldn’t do it. I went home that night and I thought about it and said I can’t do this. So I went into court and I testified against Fox because I said that he instructed us to do it. Fox’s defense was that we created it, he had nothing to do with this. (laughs) “So I’ll just ask you people to give me a hero and they gave me a hero that looked like Superman. I didn’t know a thing.” So Fox lost the case and we never got the money and my partner was very angry at me, as you could imagine. He was expecting to split the partnership and rearranged the partnership so that he’s getting the money and anyway, that ended that affair with Victor Fox. That’s the true story about Victor Fox. It has to be true because I’m the only witness alive. (laughs, applause)

quickly and Superman was, of course as you’ve seen, very successful. Victor Fox, who was working as an accountant, was adding up the money and began to realize there was big money in this business. So he went into the publishing business too and came to Eisner and Iger, which was the main source of supply in town, and he said, “I want some comics.” Well, Iger was the guy who got the account. These two guys got along fairly well because Iger was a very aggressive, feisty little guy and so was this fellow. Well, Victor Fox had a funny, very strange office. You couldn’t get in to see him because everything was locked. He locked the doors, locked all kinds of things, and he talked in very mysterious ways. At any rate, he gave me some instructions on what kind of characters he wanted. He wanted this very strong character with a cape and a red suit and a label on his chest. (laughs) Jerry Iger, my partner, brought it back to me in the shop and said, “This is what our new customer wants,” and I said, “Hey, that looks a little like Superman,

EVANIER: A few years later, Jack found himself in a comparable situation because when he and Joe Simon went to work for DC Comics, they were suing Captain Marvel, the Fawcett people, on the same basis, and Simon & Kirby had done the first full issue of Captain Marvel Adventures. DC sent Jack and Joe Simon over to see Louis Nizer, and he was telling them what to say and do and Jack was saying, finally, to Simon, “Hey, I gotta do what Eisner did. I gotta tell the truth.” Ultimately, Jack ended up not testifying, partly because he refused to say what his employer wanted, but partly because Jack was not a very good witness; but he admired Will for that and, of course, for many, many other things. Let’s talk to Mr. Romita here while Mr. Eisner is signing my copy of his book. (laughs) EISNER: You knew there was a gimmick to this. (laughs) EVANIER: I get people on panels like this just so I can get my books signed. John, when you started out in comics, what was the influence? You must have seen Simon & Kirby comics around. JOHN ROMITA: Oh, yeah. When Captain America #1 came out, I was about ten years old and I was blessed with an ability to observe and understand what I saw. I immediately saw that this was different from all the other crap I had seen. EISNER: Oh, thanks, John. (laughs) ROMITA: All the other stuff I had seen was very crude, outside of—maybe Charles Biro’s books were very impressive, and George Tuska’s, but I was aware of it from the beginning that this

was explosive stuff and different. You could see very quickly it was done gracefully and amazing, full of life. Everybody else had either their mouth closed or their eyes semi-lidded, you know, as if they were all asleep. To me, every comics guy was asleep before Jack Kirby got in there. He woke us all up. He said, “Hey!” and that’s exactly what his artwork did for me from the minute I saw it. At ten years old, I was drawing, using all the tricks he was using. I’d pop my characters right outside the panels, just like in Captain America #1, but this is 1940. Will, the story you just told us, it took part in what part of the Thirties? ’39? EISNER: No, not as late at that. ROMITA: ’38? Superman came out in ’38? EISNER: Superman came out in... I think it was earlier.

the premise that John Romita is not a groundbreaker? (applause) ROMITA: I know when I look at it, there, every day. (laughs) EVANIER: You don’t care. (laughs) ROMITA: Was Kirby an influence on me? He almost displaced Milton Caniff, because I was absorbing Milton Caniff through my pores at the time. Jack Kirby comes in and does this; I was torn between the two, because I could not resist the power of Caniff and the power of Kirby. Every single panel they did taught me a lesson. EVANIER: Now, you were working for Atlas in the 1950s. One day, Stan says to you, “I think I’m going to have you draw a Captain America story or two.” Tell us about that moment.

ROMITA: I jumped out of my skin and then I got a cold sweat because my desire to do it was only surpassed by my fear of failing at it. Sure enough, I set out on the first page; it was like I was doing Kirby, everything I could think of or remember of Kirby. I don’t think I could afford to have a lot of books; I had a couple. Halfway through that first story, it was like some kind of an irresistible weight pulling me down. I drifted into Caniff. Now, what the hell Caniff was doing in Captain America, I had no idea. (laughs) There was the only way I knew how to feather with a brush. So here I started out drawing pencils like Kirby and I inked like Caniff. It became a mish-mosh that I was embarrassed by—but I was so happy to do it, I was hoping nobody would notice. The other thing is that it only lasted such a short period. ’54, I think, and within a year, it was dead. They had a couple of issues of Young Men and

AUDIENCE: ’38. ROMITA: They came to you in ’36, probably. EISNER: Well, it was the year before we launched, so Superman inspired both those features; so it was floating around for about a year-and-a-half. ROMITA: Right. So I was just trying to get into respect for this when I was ten. In ’49, when I was nineteen, I got into comics, regretting every one of the years in-between ’39 and ’49 that I wasn’t in the business. It killed me then that everybody else—even Joe Kubert, then. (laughs) Fourteen years old and he’s amazing, and I was in high school and I wanted to kill him. I flat-out hated him. (laughs) EISNER: He was sweeping up my shop at fourteen. ROMITA: Really? Did he do “The Rose and The Thorn” and things like that? He did a Flash story when he was eighteen. EISNER: I don’t know. I lost track of most of these guys, you know. ROMITA: I could go to guys like Kubert and everybody else was an old man. This guy was 19 and he’s starting a comic book business and I was twelve. The guy was only seven years older than me. So I had to keep it all in a time frame. Like John, you got—. EISNER: You young fellows that collect my old jobs. (laughs, applause) ROMITA: I still do that. I accept the consequences. If I could have been in that first generation of artists with you guys, I would crawl on my belly. EISNER: Let me make a correction. Let me reassure you that they call it “The Golden Years,” but gentlemen, it’s not the Golden Years. It was eleven years. I mean, black-&-white. ROMITA: I understand, but still, it was groundbreaking, and when I got in ten years later, and when John started in the business, we were following established routes that had been done by you guys. I just yearned for the possibility; I could have been a groundbreaker and not been a follower. I’d been a follower for fifty years and I still get mad when I think about it. (laughs) EVANIER: How many people here disagree with 49

then two Captain America issues, those being #76, 77, and 78, three issues; and it got dropped. I’ll tell you, I almost couldn’t think, because I felt personally responsible. How could a jerk like me let Captain America fail? I said, “This is ridiculous. I had the best opportunity in the world and I let it fail.” I took it personally. Years later, Stan told me—I think it must have been a year after that—that it was the political climate, the bad reputation the American flag had at the time; everybody was burning the flag, or something. He said that the Korean War was a bad time to try to do Captain America. Chauvinism was out and Captain America took the rap. EVANIER: Let’s jump ahead here, and I know you’ve told this story before a couple of times but I think it’s appropriate to air here. You were working for DC in romance comics and suddenly, they were no more, they were backlogged, and you went over to Stan and said, “I want to ink stuff.” They had you ink the Avengers because Wally Wood had just left, and because Wally Wood had just left, there was also an opening on Daredevil; and Mr. Lee sticks you in Daredevil and you sit down and you do your first couple of pages, and what happens? ROMITA: (laughs) That’s the Kirby thing. There’s another one in-between there. I’ll get to it when I get a chance. Stan looked at my first three pages— and I brought them in, fully aware that they were rather passive. That sleepwalking stuff that I was talking about, I was doing again after all those years of romance. Every panel was a sleepwalker’s panel. I’d bring them in. Stan loved the splash as it was because it was an action page. The next three pages, 50

he just looked at them and said, “No, no, no. This isn’t okay. You’d ink it like a romance artist.” I said, “Well, that’s what I’ve been.” He called up Jack Kirby while I was standing there. “Jack,” he says, “I need some help. I got John Romita here. I want him to do Daredevil and he’s doing it very quietly. If I have somebody describe the plot to you, can you do the first ten pages and send them?” It wasn’t a breakdown. It was like a pacing guide with silhouettes and initials and some expressions, but mostly pace type—close-up, long shot, sequence, all that stuff. Two days later, I get ten pages of breakdowns and the difference was my opening sequence, right after Matt Murdock goes into the building there, the law offices. Some emergency pops up, he jumps into his apartment, he goes through a door to a secret workout room, and he takes his clothes off, puts on the Daredevil costume. I mean, I did it the most mundane way. If I was in comics fifteen years, I should have been awake. Well, Jack Kirby’s pages were like a primer, a revelation to me. His secret was that Jack Kirby says, “Matt Murdock tearing his clothes off and swinging through the workout room, includes a double-spread of him in his Daredevil outfit, and he jumps out the window without looking.” (laughs) Fortunately, there’s a flagpole on the fifteenth floor. He swings from the flagpole and, you know, there’s a common trick, that if you do a double flip in the air, it breaks the fall. (laughs) He does a double flip in the air and lands not on one taxicab, he lands on two taxicabs. (laughs) If you look at issue #12 of Daredevil, you will see the funniest thing you ever saw; one foot on the trunk of one cab, the other foot on the other—and these two guys were just staying

right alongside each other, just like the flagpole on the fifteenth floor. (laughs) He’s going uptown on the west side, on East River Drive, zooming at sixty miles an hour, and he’s doing trick riding, like two ponies from a John Wayne movie, (laughs) and I said, “Say no more. I understand.” And Stan says, “That’ll get you started.” (laughs) If you can’t make it bounce and swing and spin and somersault and crash through glass and break tabletops, don’t do it. That was the Marvel Way to do things and Jack showed it to me in three pages. And from that time, I understood the problem and I knew how to solve it to a degree. I was never going to match Jack Kirby, but at least I figured exactly what I’d need. EVANIER: Don Heck once said to me that Stan wanted everyone in comics to draw in their own natural style. He wanted Kirby to be Kirby, he wanted Ditko to be Ditko, he wanted Colan to be Colan, and he wanted everyone else to be Kirby. (laughs) ROMITA: That was how he felt, Stan Lee. One time Don came into my office and said, “You know, I don’t think I’m going to stay here any more. If Stan wants John Buscema or John Romita, let him get John Buscema and John Romita. I’m tired of trying to fake this stuff,” and I felt embarrassed because I was the guy he was looking to. I said, “Listen, Don, he doesn’t mean you have to draw like us. He means you have to do what we did when we started, incorporate all of the dynamics and the pacing and timing that Jack Kirby used to use. Neither one of us is like Jack Kirby. I aspired to, but I never could do it. But the approach, the pacing, the storytelling, the dynamics that he hoped for was what became the

Marvel Style. It had nothing to do with the actual pencils on the page. It had to do with the mental approach.” Don never quite separated those two thoughts in his head. He always felt obliged to draw like us and I said, “No, he’s not asking you to draw like us. He’s asking you to draw like yourself,” because he was a better stylist than I was. I mean, I admired Don. Don Heck’s style was tremendously independent from anybody else. He had a distinctive style and I just got so frustrated that he was misunderstanding Stan’s corrections. Stan, sometimes, was a little bit grating to us with his announcements and pronouncements, and I also felt bad that misunderstandings happened between them. He worked for Stan longer than I did, started before me, and worked during the Fifties slump when I was doing stuff up at DC. That was one of his aces and it drove me crazy that it would happen, but it was a complete misunderstanding and he had so many unfortunate misunderstandings between the published stuff against him, and everything else they’d throw at him.

ROMITA: I’d pay to see that. BUSCEMA: I’d pay too. (laughs) EVANIER: What was the challenge to follow Jack on Fantastic Four and Thor and to do those characters? BUSCEMA: When Stan called me, he said, “We’re going to put you on the Fantastic Four.” I said, “Stan, you sure you want me to do it?” Jack scared everyone. He scared the pants off of me. I mean, this guy—I said it before, I will say it again, he approached genius as far as I am concerned. He revolutionized the way we did comics; and I said, “Okay, Stan. I’ll try my best,” and it sold, because I did it for I don’t know how many issues. I worked on both those books. EVANIER: How did you feel, you’re sitting there and drawing characters Jack had designed? To what extent did you think you could

(previous page) The two pages from Daredevil #12, with layouts by Kirby, that got Romita into the Marvel Method. (below) The late John Buscema took over Thor from Kirby, and as this page from #238 (inked by Joe Sinnott) shows, did an incredible job maintaining the standards set by the King. All characters TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

EVANIER: Pass the microphone to your colleague there, who has a comparable story about coming back to Marvel, like the first super-hero story, about the Hulk, you did. JOHN BUSCEMA: I don’t remember these things as well as these guys. I don’t know why but when I went back to comics after eight years, it was only half a job. Stan gave me my first book to do—it was laid out by Jack Kirby—that I copied. (laughs) I went over Kirby’s drawings and changed it to my style but I didn’t understand what Jack was doing. To me, I just didn’t understand anything. I just thought drawing was drawing. I had no idea there was a difference between doing advertising accounts... and the second book I had was a Hulk book I laid out myself and fell on my face. It was a very painful situation. Stan called me into his office and gave me a batch of Jack Kirby books and I began to understand—and I didn’t study them, I swiped them, (laughs) which I still do today. The thing is that you have got to be able to find out where I swiped it. I loved the way Jack would distort a couple of guys with one fist and I did the same thing, but I always reversed it or I’d do it from the top, but I swiped everything, and I mean it. There was one book I had to do with Sub-Mariner and some other character. It was the first one after I had the Jack Kirby books and Stan loved it. He called me up and he said, “John, you got it. Now tone it down a little.” (laughs) I went overboard. Every panel, I went exploring, and it’s been a real—I can’t say it’s a joy. I would rather have worked on Conan all my years at Marvel than doing that super-hero stuff. I still can’t understand it. I really hate this stuff. (laughs) It just doesn’t make sense to me. I had the same problem with romance. I think romance stories are ridiculous. (laughs) I was too old to enjoy the women, but I would have preferred doing Conan my entire life. That book was my—by the way, they offered me to do a book, on Hal Foster’s Prince Valiant, and I sat on my hands and the next thing I know, they gave it to some other guy in England, and I regretted it ever since. I would have loved to have worked on the Prince Valiant books. 51

insert your own designs? BUSCEMA: I could never draw like Jack. No one can draw like Jack. I mean, this guy was fabulous. I did it in my style. Again, I used his books. I had dozens of Jack’s books. I needed a panel, I’ll turn to the books. (laughs) I’m not kidding you. I’m serious. (laughs) I worked from Jack’s books panel after panel, practically, until I started getting the feel of it, and then it was still a trial. I still use those books. I still have Jack Kirby’s books. That’s the thing. I had my comic book-oriented—it’s a difficult situation for me to work on comics. When I got Conan, I dropped the super-hero type of layout. We went in more for realism in that type of thing, and it worked with Conan, but it doesn’t work with the superheroes. It never will. EVANIER: Let me pass this mike to Mike and ask him... I met Mike before he even worked with Jack. At that time, he was working for Russ Manning and doing work for Western Publishing on Disney comics. After he left Jack, he worked for Disney for many years, where he’d do merchandise art and other illustrations, and I always found it interesting to talk about how your experiences with Jack had influenced how you drew Winnie the Pooh and such. Can you talk a little bit about the influence there? MIKE ROYER: Several times, I pulled out a large group scene that I worked on with all of the Hundred-Acre-Wood characters and say, “This drawing exists because when I did it, I thought ‘Jack Kirby’” and people would look at it and go, (unimpressed) “Right, Michael.” (laughs) Maybe this philosophy, the number one, most important thing I ever learned from Jack was not to be afraid of a blank piece of paper. I have some pieces that I’ve never sold, that I’ll probably keep, and you’re not supposed to be enamored of your own work, but a couple years later, I looked at it and I’d go, “God, did I do that?” It was one of those things where with a blank sheet of paper, the instructions were, “We want to see comics characters making their own gifts for Christmas,” and I just started in the center of the sheet of paper and thinking, “God, I could start in the corner or start here.” I just started working on Pooh and by the time I finish it, it’s like, “God, did I do that?” So it doesn’t look like anything Jack Kirby drew, but it was the things I learned by osmosis that you do. I think with Jack, sometimes, because of his genius, the hand and the pencil just took over and it kept drawing. So I continue to tell people that almost all of my large group scenes, approved concepts, and finished art were from staying with Jack Kirby. You can’t see it. I think it was what you guys were saying earlier; that you don’t want to duplicate what he did, but think of what he did. Everything I ever did with Winnie the Pooh character art in the eight years I was doing it for Disney, was that every drawing—whether it’s one character, two, or ten characters—tells a story. All the characters are acting and working with each other. It’s just a simple magic moment or it’s a real situational thing, and those are the things I’ve learned from Jack. You just don’t put a drawing on the page. It exists for a reason and it’s doing something, and that’s the debt I owe to Jack Kirby. I think that a part of that influence on me, even though you can’t see it, is that when I retooled the look of the Pooh characters eight-and-a-half years ago, they ended the exclusive license with Sears and instead, opened it up to the world. A designer came to me and said, “Will you retool the Pooh art?” and I said, “I really like Pooh. If you’ll let me restylize it the way I want to, okay.” So I did, they liked it and in three years, Pooh was outselling Mickey Mouse worldwide. So you think of Jack Kirby and you think of these incredible dynamics, you’re never going to think of Winnie the Pooh. But I’ll say in almost every drawing I did, Kirby was in there.

EVANIER: Over the years, I saw people come to Jack and ask for art tips, and I never saw him give an art tip that was about drawing. It was about thinking. He would always give people a philosophical concept. Even if they asked, “How would you draw hands?”, he would tell them how to think about how to draw hands. ROMITA: It’s all about thinking, really. Whatever the scene or panel, he envisioned it and saw it on the page and all he did was trace it. You know he was thinking, all of a sudden, about it, but whatever he saw—I tried everything. I closed my eyes, I tried everything in the book to visualize. I do not see anything on the page. I had to start feeling my way until I get a few shapes, then I can do it. All I can tell you is that he was blessed with that ability, to see everything he wanted to do on paper, in composition. Then all he had to do was make a close-up or a distant shot. That was a blessing that I wish I had. I think that I probably would have looked a lot younger and felt a lot better, (laughs) but I aged myself every day on the board; it was like pulling out my intestines, but as John said, you think we had fun. Maybe guys like Will and Jack Kirby— and I used to say John Buscema; now he tells me he did it to get paid for it too. (laughs) I always thought he was having a ball. I thought he was knocking out these pages and listening to opera while he was at work, (laughs) and I found out so many of these blessed guys that had this ability, to translate what’s in their mind to the paper painlessly, or at least comparably painlessly—but mine was always a mental process. The reason I asked Stan not to let me pencil any more was that I was always killing myself, I was chipping off pieces of me every time. I said, “I can ink,” and he lied to me and said, “Yes, you can ink. Come back to us and you can ink,” and a week later, he put me on Daredevil. (laughs)

(above) While you wouldn’t exactly call it “Kirbyesque,” Mike Royer’s work on Winnie the Pooh for Disney does owe a debt of influence to his work with Jack. All characters TM & ©2002 Walt Disney Productions.

EVANIER: When Jack had to do a double-page spread, he would just start on the left-hand side and just draw in. It was like the drawing was under there, he was just tracing it. People often come to me and they say, “Let’s do a book of all of Jack’s rough sketches,” and the answer is, “There really aren’t any.” He did not do roughs. If he’d do a rough, it was usually because the editor said, “I gotta see a rough first.” So Jack, who already knew what the final drawing would be, would do the rough so he could do the final drawing. He did not do preliminary sketches very often. 53

(this page and next) Jack’s photocopier must’ve been malfunctioning the day he copied these pencils from Mister Miracle #6, as part of the image is chopped off of each. Still, it’s nice to see what we can of them. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

ROMITA: John here used to tell me to throw away my eraser and Jack Kirby told me first, “Never erase a line.” With me, I erased every other line. (laughs) I was self-destructive, but he used to tell me, “Don’t sweat it. Just paint it right to the side of the pencil. You can make a basic change, then finish it up and get the hell out. The worst thing you would do is better than most guys’ best stuff.” Sounds good, but it never worked for me. If I’d do a bad panel, I could not do the second panel. BUSCEMA: I went into Marvel one time; John had done a fabulous splash page. You know what a splash page is? I went out to lunch. I came back. He’d changed the whole damn concept. (laughs) The first was fabulous. John is a perfectionist, that’s his problem. I do a panel. If it comes out fine, I’m happy. If it doesn’t, I say, “Well, the second panel might come out better.” (laughs, applause) ROMITA: It’s okay when your first panel is better than what most guys can do in the first place. (laughs) It’s guys like us that struggle. He never had that. (laughs) ROYER: Can I say something about John [Romita’s] inking? Most of whatever career I had in comic books was inking, and I remember, was it three or four issues of Spider-Man that Gil Kane penciled, and then you took a kneaded eraser and softened all of his hard-chiseled edges and inked those books? Those tattered

books are still in my library of comics, which is very small. [To Buscema] I’ve got the Marvel Masterworks collections of your Silver Surfers, which I think are fantastic, (applause) but the inker in me looks at those Spider-Mans and it’s just, my God, it is the most brilliant inking. Whatever power Gil Kane had is still there, but all of the harshness is gone. ROMITA: That’s interesting. Gil probably hated it because I changed it, but his proportions, the only problem I had with them was that he made everybody 6' 5". (laughs) I always had to shrink Spider-Man by about seven or eight inches. That was the only change I had to make on that, and every single job I did, I learned more and more. You know the emblem on Spider-Man’s chest? Ditko did a dumb-looking one—it looked like a padded brush and I did the worst looking version of what Ditko did because I felt obliged to follow him. Gil Kane comes in and does this beautiful fore-and-aft spider design on his chest and from that time on, I never did it any other way. Gil Kane actually led me by the nose. Every time I inked his stuff, I learned something. His drawings were based on mannequin designs and he taught me almost everything on dynamics, all those years I was doing it. He used to—he gave me his old mannequin once in the office. He had bought a bigger and better one and he gave me his old mannequin. Yeah, don’t you ever see his hinges on some of his basic drawings? He’s got hinges on all the joints. (laughs) See, I learned something. (laughs) I will tell you another thing Gil Kane did. He routinely had a great trick that he told me about. He said, “When you reach, in comics, you know the human arm is a certain length? Most people, even Hal Foster, did this.” (sticks arm straight out) He said, “Jack Kirby did this. (sticks arm out even farther) You take every joint and you take all of the cartilage inbetween the bones, and stretch them out so that Prince Valiant does this. He can stretch four inches further than Captain Marvel.” That was the trick I learned from Gil. BUSCEMA: Jack Kirby destroyed the human body. (laughs) What he did to the human body was unbelievable, but it worked. It worked. That’s the important thing. He told that story and then, in fact, whatever the things he was doing, you believe in, even though not a lot. (laughs) I had a class one time and a student said, “Well, he put six joints in a hand.” I went, “No way!” They brought it up to me and, sure enough, six joints in the fingers. EISNER: Jack included that extra joint in the fingers. (laughs) BUSCEMA: How do you think that worked? ROYER: Jack drew figures that existed in different time zones, (laughs) and if you didn’t understand the storytelling, you might look at it and go, “Jeez, that’s not a drawing”— but if you really looked at it, and if a character’s leaping towards you, his foot, at the end of that finger, is in a different time zone, (laughs) with maybe three or four time zones in-between.

ROMITA: Well, you put a grid on the ground, and you’ve got twelve or fifteen feet between one toe and the other side. (laughs) EVANIER: We’re getting kind of tight and I still have to show the videotape, but let’s see if anybody out there has any questions for these gentlemen. AUDIENCE: Yes, is there any consensus on the panel as to what was the most innovative period in Jack’s career? Was it market-driven or creative? ROMITA: It was self-propelled and it lasted from 1939 to 1975, at least as far as that segué. EISNER: He was always innovative. EVANIER: Anybody else want to field that? All right, another question. AUDIENCE: Mike, why didn’t you do more work for Marvel apart from Jack? ROYER: There were things I did at Marvel that, I guess, didn’t gain me any favor. They sent me two Don Heck books to ink, of Ka-Zar. As an inker, maybe I have no personality or did not put all of my personality into the inks, but when I was finished, I wanted it to look like Don Heck had inked it. Of course, John Verpoorten called me. He said, “You know, we really wanted that to look like Joe Sinnott inking.” I want to say something about Marie Severin. The first time I ever went to the Marvel offices, which were probably in 1970, I had a brand-new pair of hopsack denim pants. The inseam splits open for about seven inches. Marie Severin, bless her heart, sewed them up for me. (laughs) In your office was this piece of white paper with a cigar butt on it. ROMITA: Yeah, Jack Kirby’s cigar. ROYER: With a big pin in it and card, “He was here.” (laughs) EVANIER: There was another one of those cigars, saying, “I quit.” (laughs) Now in our remaining time in here, to get everything in, I have to do a little choreography. Let me, first of all, thank these four gentlemen: Mike Royer, Will Eisner, John Buscema, and John Romita. (applause) While we set up the video equipment, let me make a few announcements. One is that in this room, immediately following this, I will be interviewing a man named Dan Spiegle, who I think is one of the five best comic artists in the entire building. (applause) Dan has a slight Kirby connection. He is the artist that Jack wanted to have draw Kamandi. Jack didn’t want to draw Kamandi himself. He created it with the idea of giving it to another artist and Dan was the first choice, but DC said, “No, no, Jack. You draw it.” Jack was a big fan of Dan’s work and he’s never been interviewed at a convention before, so please stick around and hear him talk about his work. People keep asking me about the book I’m writing about Jack. It is huge, it is large, it is coming, I don’t know when. I found out stuff from Irwin Donenfeld from this convention to put into it. I’m still getting material. I’m going to start quoting

some excerpts on my website so tune in and see it develop and—. AUDIENCE: What is your website? EVANIER: My website’s [www.POVonline.com] and it’s full of stuff about Jack. If you have any questions about Jack, I try to answer them there or in the pages of The Jack Kirby Collector, a very fine magazine published and edited by Mr. John Morrow. (applause) ROYER: I’d like to thank Mark for letting me sit here at this table with all of these giants and gentlemen who were the icons I looked up to. Thanks for letting me be here. (applause) EVANIER: All right, so you gentlemen may want to go out; if you want to take a look at this, sit down there. I apologize that they wouldn’t get me a bigger screen. (laughs) In 1982, Jack was a guest of honor at the American Booksellers Association and they gave all sorts of big honors and such. That week, Channel 9 in Los Angeles was running a 3-D movie with Elvira as the hostess, and they’d been selling 3- D glasses for a dollar or fifty cents apiece at 7-11 stores. Johnny Carson had been doing jokes about how the people running this 3-D film were ripping off all the kids by selling these cheap cardboard glasses—I guess Johnny didn’t know what things cost these days—so he asked his prop man to get him a pair of 3-D glasses that he could wear during the monologue. The prop man gave him a set that were not from the Elvira 3-D movie, but from a poster that Jack had done, which Ray Zone had designed for a project you may have seen called Battle for a Three-Dimensional World. The glasses said on them,

“Created by Jack Kirby, King of Comics,” or something like that. So Mr. Carson went out to do his monologue with a pair of those glasses on—I’m vamping until we get the film up here (laughs)— and that night, Jack was sitting at home when somebody on the East Coast called him and said, “Oh, watch the Johnny Carson show tonight. He mentions you.” Jack thought, “Oh boy, I’m going to be mentioned on Johnny Carson’s show,” but unfortunately, it was not a very happy thing. This is a tape of that and then we’ll show you the retraction that Johnny did a couple of weeks later. Are we ready? Roll. (The Tonight Show theme comes up) ED McMAHON: Tonight, from Hollywood, The Tonight Show, starring Johnny Carson. This is Ed McMahon, along with Doc Severinson and you’re invited to join Johnny and his guests: Glen Campbell, Danny Thomas, and the—. EVANIER: Anyone remember Johnny Carson? (laughs) McMAHON: Ladies and gentlemen, he-e-e-e-e-ere’s Johnny! (applause) AUDIENCE: What year is this? EVANIER: It’s on the tape. I’ll have to look at the tape. 55

JOHNNY CARSON: That’s my favorite sound, applause mixed with heavy breathing. (laughs) I’m Johnny Carson. Why should I lie to you? I could have said “I’m Richard Pryor” but I’d like to make it on my own. (laughs) Put on my 3-D glasses and—(riotous laughter and applause). You’re the first 3-D audience, folks, I’ve ever had. (laughs) Now, I’ll do this once. Okay, somebody sent me a pair of these the other night. As you know, they had a movie on Channel 9 last weekend and they sold, according to the newspaper, two million pairs of these magnificently constructed glasses. (laughs) It’s a piece of cardboard with a red piece of cellophane here and a blue piece of cellophane here. You know how much they got for them? Ninety-nine cents a pop. They sold two million of these.

for this attorney named Steve Rohde who hired me, God knows why, because I didn’t know much about anything. When you get out of Law School, you don’t know very much about practicing law or representing clients, or anything else, but one day, he introduced me to Jack and Roz and said, “Well, you’re going to be handling all of their affairs from now on,” and I said, “O-kay.” I remember Jack calling Steve and me, I guess the morning after the Carson thing. Now, I hadn’t seen the Carson show that night, not being a regular watcher of it, but we managed to get a videotape of it from NBC and wrote to the General Counsel, I guess, at NBC at the time and demanded a retraction and threatened to sue them for libel. I guess the letter and the threats were ultimately successful because—.

McMAHON: Read what it says on the inside.

EVANIER: All right, let’s run the second part, chapter two. This is two weeks later, the first night Johnny is back after an extended vacation. (music cues up, then ends)

CARSON: “Use only for 3-D TV and cosmic viewing.” What? McMAHON: They’re collector’s glasses. CARSON: Collector’s glasses? McMAHON: Read the rest of it. CARSON: Designed by Jack Kirby, King of the Comics. (laughs) (mock astonishment) I didn’t know Jack designed these. (laughs) Who’s Jack Kirby? STUDIO AUDIENCE: King of the Comics. CARSON: Well, he’s King of the Con Men, as far as I’m concerned. (laughs, applause—groans from the San Diego convention audience) Hey, patent is pending on these. (laughs) Two million clams they paid for these things. Well, anyway, we’re in the wrong business. EVANIER: Let’s stop that part of the tape. Jack was devastated by this. Mike [Royer], you were probably talking to him at this point. He’d had a whole bunch of problems with Marvel at this point. He’d had some heart problems and they’d given him nitroglycerine tablets to carry around. The only time he ever took one was that night. He was devastated. Johnny Carson went on vacation the following week. Johnny was always on vacation. We started mobilizing—Paul, were you involved in this? Why don’t you come up and use the mike? This is one of the people protecting Jack behind the scenes. There were many of them. This is Paul Levine, folks. (applause) PAUL LEVINE: I had just graduated from Law School in ’81 and started working 56

CARSON: Thank you. Okay, we do have a first-rate audience here tonight. McMAHON: Great house. (wild applause) CARSON: Now, before we start tonight, we’ve been off a week. I had to start with an apology tonight, and I mean this sincerely. Remember a couple of weeks ago, locally out here, I think Channel 13 had a 3-D movie and they sold 3-D glasses? I guess it was Channel 9, you’re right; and they sold, I think, through 7-11 stores the 3-D glasses to see the movie. They sold a couple million pairs. McMAHON: And the lovely hostess. CARSON: The lovely hostess will be with us tomorrow night, incidentally, on the show. Elvira will be with us. She hosted it. Anyway, Doc was wearing one of his rather loud outfits and somebody gave me a pair of 3-D glasses which I had in my pocket, and I took them out and I was looking at Doc in the 3-D glasses; and I started to talk about the movie, mentioning that over 2 million pairs of these glasses—first of all, I was wrong there. Those were not the glasses sold at 7-11.

McMAHON: They weren’t? CARSON: No, those were 3-D glasses designed by the gentleman I’m going to mention in a moment, to view these 3-D posters. Anyway, I was talking and you just handed to me—you were a big help that night. (laughs) “Why don’t you read what’s on those glasses,” right? McMAHON: On the inside, because I got a pair.

up a couple of bucks making 3-D glasses. And this letter came from a Mark E-V-A-N-I-E-R. (San Diego convention audience laughs and applauds) He, apparently, is a comic book buff that saw the show and realized what we had said. Well, Mr. Kirby, if you’re watching, we’re very sorry. We certainly didn’t intend to cause you any embarrassment or to make fun of you. We had the wrong person. Well, there is no other Jack Kirby, no. (laughs)

CARSON: Well, it just says “3-D glasses” and you said—.

McMAHON: Well, years ago, there was a Jack Kirby who was a minor comic in the Catskills.

McMAHON: No, it tells you about the man who designed them.

CARSON: Is that the one you were talking about?

CARSON: Uh-huh. It said “glasses designed by Jack Kirby, King of the Comics.” Now, if you say to a comedian or an entertainer “King of the Comics,” what’s the first thing you think of?

McMAHON: That’s the one I was thinking about. (laughs)

McMAHON: Buddy Hackett. (laughs) CARSON: Yeah, the Comic King; but the audience kind of laughed because we had not heard of Jack Kirby, King of Comics. Well, it just goes to show you we don’t know as much as we might think. Mr. Kirby is the King of the Comics because he created or cocreated such classic comic book characters as the Hulk, Captain America, Spider-Man, Thor, and many, many others. As a matter of fact, the main records book on comic book history is dedicated to Jack Kirby. It says, “Without whom, there would not be any comics to write a history about.” So I had turned around and I had said laughingly, they made a lot of money on the glasses. I said rather than the King of the Comics, Jack Kirby is the King of the Con Men. (pained laughter) McMAHON: I’m glad I didn’t say that. (laughs) CARSON: You got me to where I said it. Anyway, I had not met Mr. Kirby, who has a fine reputation as a comic book illustrator and a creator. We are very sorry. We certainly did not take it maliciously. McMAHON: We both apologize. CARSON: We did not know, I did not know the—. McMAHON: Nobody did know. CARSON: And we thought it was some comic who was picking

CARSON: This man has really done a lot. This last weekend, he was honored at the American Booksellers Convention in Anaheim, here in California. Of course, a lot of people were coming up to him and telling him of our—.

(previous page, top) An unused version of the promotional poster art for Battle for a ThreeDimensional World (1982), still in pencil, and (below) the finished version, inked by Mike Thibodeaux. ©2002 Jack Kirby Estate.

McMAHON: Our moment of jest. CARSON: Our moment of jest on the air. So again, we’re very sorry for that, Mr. Kirby. Okay, now—. (San Diego convention audience applauds) EVANIER: I’ll also add, because Paul can’t say this, that Kirby received a sum of cash from Mr. Carson. It was probably, for Johnny, about forty-two seconds’ income. (laughs) One of the interesting sidelines of this involved Johnny’s producer, a man named Fred DeCordova who, for years, had been Jack Benny’s producer. While Paul and Steve were doing their wonderful work from their side, I went to DeCordova and said, “You know, this is like somebody dumped on Jack Benny. Jack Kirby is as revered in our business as Jack Benny is in yours.” That motivated Mr. DeCordova to jump into the fray. He said, “Get me a letter and I’ll force Johnny to read it on the air.” I don’t think Jack ever fully recovered from the whole thing, but it had a semi-happy ending, and we’re very pleased with that. Paul and Steve Rohde deserve 85% of the credit for making it happen that way. (applause) We’re out of time here. Thank you for joining us at the 8th Annual Jack Kirby Tribute Panel. We’ll see you at the next one and the next one and the next one. ★

Thanks to Adrian Day for the logo treatment!

Himontary

How Do You Kill The Man Who’s Died A Thousand Deaths? Surely he couldn’t be dispatched as easily as Darkseid did in the Hunger Dogs graphic novel (and with as pedestrian a means as a gun; talk about a scene that rang hollow. Himon would certainly have utilized a “follower” to stand in for him, as he did so many times before). Regardless, it’s amazing that a character who

only appeared in one Fourth World issue—and nearly two years after the epic began—could be such an important part of the tapestry. So for this issue, we resurrect the “lovable old rascal” who taught Scott Free his craft by having three writers give their take on one of Kirby’s most personal (and fan favorite) sagas: Mister Miracle #9’s “Himon.”

imon—master of disguise, escape artist par excellence, and \ above all the “master of theories”—is Kirby’s embodiment of imagination. A protean genius, Himon has a disconcerting tendency to “phase” in and out of everywhere, and the power to shake off bodies like dry husks, thus to sidestep death again and again. Kirby suggests a prosaic explanation for Himon’s impossible escapes (apparently he can create convincing replicas or standins for his own body), but, finally, Himon is a metaphor; every literal-minded explanation of his powers falls short. He is imagination personified—the inspiration for designers, craftsmen, dancers, artists—and his visionary energy threatens Darkseid’s

suffocating, totalitarian world order. On Apokolips the free exercise of the imagination carries terrible risks: Himon’s students often die for dreaming. When young Scott Free witnesses this firsthand, when he sees dreamers tortured and destroyed, he cracks, and finally, fully, commits himself to breaking free. For him Himon becomes no longer merely a source of furtive escapism, but a genuine means of escape. The story of “Himon,” then, is about the horrors that break Scott’s conformism and harden his resolve for imaginative freedom—as the cover says, the great “bust-out.” The tale is unpleasant, yet exhilarating. Its setting is a nightmare, and its pervasive violence is cold, appalling. After decades of reuse, Apokolips remains one of Kirby’s best and most frightening ideas: a blotted, smoking, industrialized hell that makes mythology out of the author’s formative experiences, fusing Lower East Side squalor with visions of a thumping, jackbooted technocracy. “Himon” depicts this worldscape without much grandeur but with an astringent, unsentimental, and brutal clarity. (There are few dark places in Kirby’s oeuvre that can match it: the City of Toads, perhaps, from Eternals #8-10, or the chilly dystopia of OMAC #1.) The story metes out torment and death, indeed a surplus of outrageous violence, with steely matter-of-factness. When I look at the pages of “Himon,” these are some of the things I see: I see signs of Kirby’s overarching ambitions for the Fourth World saga. Page 1’s explanatory caption links this story with “The Pact” (New Gods #7) and assumes a knowing audience that is following Mister Miracle and New Gods at the same time. At several points, Kirby foreshadows how Scott’s escape from Apokolips will factor into, perhaps spark, a new war; the darkly prophetic dialogue of Himon and Metron hints that Scott’s moment of decision may also be a decisive turning point in the whole saga. These hints suggest just how much narrative and thematic material Kirby was holding in his head at the time, and how meaningful the larger tapestry of the Fourth World had become for him at this decisive point in his career. This was a new and complex undertaking for a yarn-spinner whose work had most often been driven by the tyranny of frequent deadlines, and whose degree of engagement (not his work ethic, which was tireless, but his artistic interest) would so often vary even within a single month, waxing and waning according to his imaginative sympathy with the material. Here his engagement was at its fiercest, and his maintenance of continuity (so often a trouble spot for Kirby) most deliberate. I also see effective scripting. Admittedly, Kirby’s pounding urgency is often hard to take—his scripting is prone to overkill—and even here there are times when his captions are momentarily confusing; but “Himon” boasts an elegance and compression that are rare in Kirby’s scriptwriting, and the cadences of the text are hypnotic (dig the incantatory rhythms of pages 1 through 3, or the relentless

transitional caption atop page 17). More importantly, the frantic prose is keyed to the story’s overriding themes. Case in point: the description of Greyborders as the “raw and dirty edge” of Apokolips, from which Darkseid siphons his power (page 1). This caption offers a crucial insight: that the taproots of power are often found among the powerless. The key here is the concept of belief, invoked by Kirby’s reference to “endless gods” (page 2). This line may at first be puzzling, but when Kirby suggests that the “lowlies” believe in Darkseid, that they “glory” in his service, and that Darkseid will allow them to worship only himself—then the idea of “gods” takes on new relevance. In Armagetto, Darkseid is godlike. One of the central problems in “Himon”—the central one, I think—is that most of the lowlies do believe in Darkseid, so much so that they fear and hate the very figure who might be the agent of their liberation, Himon. Though downtrodden and wretched, Kirby’s lowlies are not idealized sufferers waiting for the chance to be free, but instead cringing devotees of Darkseid’s order. Kirby’s understanding of totalitarianism—its logic, its strategies—is bleak and pitiless, for he knows that the lowlies have been raised with a slave mentality, so that they cling to their role as “nothings,” mere “objects” or functionaries in Darkseid’s repressive regime (as Himon suggests on page 7). They have swallowed the oppressors’ cant: all that is done to the lowlies is justified in terms of being done for them, that is, on their behalf. (As page 3’s soldier remarks, “We’re saving you from infection!”) Willik the “protector” claims to be defending the lowlies’ “pride and spirit,” even as he orders the immolation of the crowd— one of the most shockingly offhand moments of violence in all Kirby’s work (page 4). Bleakest of all is Himon’s tacit acceptance, or, if not acceptance, then grimly matter-of-fact acknowledgment, of this terrible price: the murders are taken as a given, and Himon, as ever, moves on. The story is both impressive and alarming in the way it registers the shocks of war. I notice too that Himon is a hand before he is a face. Look at page 5, where Himon stands amidst the flames of sacrifice, a silhouette in quick pen-strokes à la the Human Torch. What emerges from that fire (panel 2) is a hand: a clenched fist, goading Willik toward confrontation. The hand beckons toward the fire—but on the next page the hand reaches from a blank wall, toward Scott Free, beckoning his aid. (Willik is lured in, but Scott is invited to reach out.) One is forcibly reminded of the Source Wall, as depicted back in New Gods #1—the wall on which the burning hand of the Source writes its prophetic messages. Himon is like that hand. Scott extends a helping hand: he pulls Himon free of the wall, but this is of course ironic, because it is really Himon who is extending his hand to liberate Scott. Even as Scott pulls him free of the wall, across the page (7), Himon provokes Scott, twits him with mocking epithets, and points out the slave mentality within him. His words reveal the story’s axial conflict: between the hive mentality, with its notions of status and hierarchy (“I’m an aerotrooper of Darkseid’s

(above) Compare this page 6 pencil splash with the Mike Royer-inked published version, and you’ll see Mike was more than just someone going over Jack’s pencils with a brush. His skill as a letterer and designer allowed him to rearrange the text elements, which made for a much more effectively designed page. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

own elite!”), and the power of the freed imagination. When Himon confronts Scott face to face—only then—we see his face full-on for the first time (page 7, panel 3). This moment always gives me a slight shock when I read it, because it makes obvious the way Himon’s identity has thus far been hidden from our view. We at last see Himon, as his “misfits” do, and this matters. The resemblance between Himon’s features and Kirby’s makes this moment of recognition all the more charged and suggestive. (Kirby himself cited his father-in-law as visual inspiration, but I see “Jack Kirby”—perhaps both are true?) Himon’s misfits (page 8) are an odd bunch: Kreetin, Bravo, Zep, Weldun, and the mute artist Auralie, another Kirby-klatch of representative types (Forever People, anyone? Replete with an inwardly and outwardly “beautiful” dreamer), but these types are mostly frustrated and incomplete. Kreetin’s plight is specially revealing: he has constructed a Mother Box but lacks the animating spirit to activate it, for he sees it only mechanistically, as a bundle of “gadgets” (panel 3). Metron gets to the heart of Kreetin after the latter’s narrow escape (pages 13 and 14), when he observes that Kreetin’s sense of self-preservation saves his skin but costs

him a Mother Box. For Kreetin, imagination is “worth mere dust” (page 13, panel 5) and Himon’s cryptic words are “garbage” (page 8, panel 1). This, perhaps, is why Kreetin doesn’t “work,” as Himon observes: his crude idea of survival forecloses his imagination, his spirit; the slave mentality bends him to the ground (note how he grovels before Metron on page 13). Even Willik understands that Kreetin has technical skill but no “mystic fire” (17). It makes sense that Kreetin runs into Metron, for Metron too is a technician rather than a visionary. Though elsewhere Kirby portrays Metron as a Promethean embodiment of ambition, “boldness and hunger” (New Gods #5), here he is revealed as the mechanist who translates Himon’s theories into hard, usable

fact. (Himon too is a technician, but not only a technician.) Kirby divulges the crucial relationship between Himon and Metron in a wonderful but disconcerting scene set “on a gutted slag heap near Armagetto,” where, we are told, the mind of the visionary is “eternally grounded” (16). This intriguing paradox—the visionary rooted to the slag heap—scarcely has time to register before

Kirby reveals that Himon, the “master of theories,” is also the one whose ideas “fostered Darkseid’s power.” Tellingly, Himon admits this even as he clasps hands with Metron, a figure of compromise and cunning ever since New Gods #1 (and the figure who, in New Gods #7, supplies both sides of the gods’ war with technologies of mass destruction). That handclasp (page 16, panel 2) is electric: again the hand of Himon reaches forward, bathed in glowing energy, communicating ideas and power to someone else—in this case, Metron, master of the physical elements. Himon, because he has abetted Darkseid’s evil, declares that he must be on hand “at its end.” Allegorically, this makes sense: imagination can be harnessed in all sorts of ways, even for the sake of oppression, yet, if not stamped out, will ultimately subvert the oppressor’s cause. As with Metron in “The Pact,” Himon is a shadowed character, connected by chains of consequence (and complicity) to the larger conflict of the New Gods, so that he grows in complexity with repeated reading. This is but one of many ways in which the Fourth World series implicates good in evil, compromising its starkly-drawn (I’m tempted to say Manichean) clash of values so as to create a more challenging and thought-provoking tale. What’s especially provoking is the thought that Darkseid may want Scott Free to escape, or to die in the attempt, thus sundering the Pact with New Genesis, precipitating war, and serving Darkseid’s larger purpose. Metron’s goal, apparently, is to make sure that Scott does not die in the attempt, but his role in the tale remains mysterious: one never knows quite what Metron is up to. These larger-than-life characters

seem to be watching to see how Scott will react, and, again, that’s rather disconcerting. (I’m reminded of the ways God and Satan enter into the Book of Job, the latter with God’s permission. Why? Similarly, why is Metron able to maneuver so freely on Apokolips? Why does Darkseid appear at the end, yet let Scott go?) What prompts Scott’s final escape is the death of the dreamer,

Auralie, at the hands of Willik (who in turn is executed by Himon). This final movement begins with the death of another: ironically, it is Kreetin, the self-preservationist, who is bluntly dispatched by Willik with a single blow (17). In another offhandedly cruel moment, the corpse of Kreetin is hung alongside the others Misfits, all dead, their bodies limp as empty sacks (18). I’m surprised by the manner of Kreetin’s death, even now, because Kirby’s work is so often filled with drawn-out, nimbly choreographed yet inconsequential violence—

not summary execution. Again, death comes into this story matter-of-factly, without Kirby’s usual frenetic buzz and with no platitudes whatsoever. Worse, worse by far, is the fate meted out to Auralie, the dreamer among Himon’s misfits, who “creates beauty” even in the nightmarish climate of Granny Goodness’ orphanage. “Poor, brave Auralie,” as Himon calls her, struggles to protect and to give outward form to her own “inner beauty,” only to be taken back into custody by Barda and her female furies (10). Yet Barda also shields Auralie so that her “crime” will go undiscovered (a promising chink in Barda’s armor of toughness). Auralie is the story’s key, the character whose suffering and death compel Scott to escape. Both Scott and Barda, though they at first identify themselves by mere rank and function, come to see Auralie’s uniqueness as important: Barda covers for her, and Scott, even in his first encounter with Barda, invokes Auralie to explain his own desire to seek “other roads [and] other tricks” (11). Auralie’s slender fragility represents Kirby’s idea of gentleness; her silent conjuring of dancing images (9) represents a vision of art in contrast to Kirby’s own hectic and violence-filled world. The torture she suffers at Willik’s hands (page 19) is horrific and symbolically apt—a pair of immobilizing “shock boots”—even if it is,

thankfully, implied rather than shown. (Inker Mike Royer, responsive as ever, limns the moment with an extra-thick panel border, a trick he uses occasionally and sensitively throughout.) This scene of implied torture and death feels very, very dark, and the sequence that follows is literally so. Yet Page 21, though clotted with darkness, is beautiful: here the imagination of the visionary is linked to the generative power of the Source, and Scott comes to realize that this same power makes Darkseid afraid of him. Black shadows dominate the page until we see Scott, full-on, with a face at once troubled and hopeful (panel 5). Once again the close-up comes as a culmination, an affirming shock. Himon’s own face is again shaded, and, in panel 2, almost graven in its mysteriousness and power: dig the up-angle shot of his face, with those blank, pupil-less eyes, as Himon says, “I dream! I roam the universe!!” Significantly, a similar image of Izaya can be found in New Gods #7, page 18, as Izaya rejects “the way of war”: the blank white eyes seem to suggest emptiness and inspiration all at once. Perhaps it is no coincidence that these comparable images both occur as Kirby’s thoughts turn toward the Source. Himon, despite the shadows cast over him by his execution of Willik, acknowledges the Source as the root of his power (panel 3), and, as he speaks of it, seems inspirited, invigorated, and deeply alive. (Recall the scene in New Gods #7 when Izaya despairs of war, tears off his armor, and confronts the Source Wall.) The scripting waxes most eloquent as Himon describes the Source to Scott: “It lives! It burns! When we reach out and touch it—the core of us is magnified!” (panel 4). This is one of the most revealing and heavily fraught pages in the Fourth World saga, and, I submit, one of the most movingly written sequences in all Kirby. The interaction of art and text is tautly controlled; the sense of emotional payoff is tremendous (especially if you have been following the trials of “Young Scott Free” from the outset); and, in the published version, the inking of Royer is wonderfully faithful to the dark, dark tonal quality of Kirby’s penciling, which is crucial to the impact of the scene.

What follows this scene is breathless and uneven: a too-abrupt transition, a headlong chase, and, at last, the hoped-for escape. During this last sequence (pages 22 to 26), Scott often runs directly toward the viewer, but at other times (especially in the final two pages) moves away from us, into the distance. The visual logic of the sequence is forecast by the cover to this issue, on which Scott hurtles toward the viewer but at the same time seems to be yanking the gate or barrier “backwards” with terrific force, turning his body, graphically, into a tense, exploding “X” of motion. (His body is heading for us but his arms are wrenching backwards.) The cover is one of Kirby’s best and most relevant—far better than the cover to New Gods #7, for example—because it clearly shows that Scott’s headlong flight is checked or frustrated by obstacles,

which he must tear apart by violence. The tense shot/reverse-shot exchanges during the escape sequence follow this same logic: they mostly show Scott at a right angle to the plane of the page, moving alternately toward and away from the viewer. Kirby seems to understand, intuitively, that the picture plane is a site of confrontation between text and reader: the paneling works not only as a means of organizing the page and parsing the action, but also as a dynamic constraint, a barrier toward which and away from which the action moves, often threatening to burst through. A tremendous amount of graphic conflict— crackling, energizing conflict—goes on at the picture plane, drawing both artist and reader into the action. Affronting the page is a large part of what makes certain Kirby stories (e.g., “The Glory Boat”) work, and that same logic works here.

Interestingly, Scott’s final escape occurs inward, so to speak: away from us, and away from Darkseid and Himon for that matter, into a Boom Tube (page 26, panel 3). Of course, how could it be otherwise? It is worth nothing that this, the only mute panel in the whole story, comes after Scott’s climactic shout in the preceding panel: “Let me be Scott Free—and find myself!” This line is in response to both Darkseid and Himon, and for this Scott faces us, resolute, perhaps angry, craving liberty and self-understanding. (There was evidently some minor but significant fine-tuning of the text between the penciled and the published version.

to my ear); but it remains a great story overall, and startling at its best moments, with passages of shock and poignancy that are as potent as anything Kirby ever did. Of course the story is bound to strike us an autobiographical cryptogram: there is a great deal in it that matches our understanding of Kirby’s public career, his private circumstances, and his personality, but what matters to me is that the story deals with the liberating power of the imagination—not in some hollowly sentimental way, with no complexity and no friction, but in a grandly complex, at times unsettling, and always dramatic fashion. The great bust-out, indeed. ★

(previous page) Auralie, who leads Scott Free to “bust out.” (this page) After a leisurely first two-thirds of the book, the final escape sequence seems rushed, as if it were reworked at the last minute. Was this originally to be a twoparter before DC pulled the Fourth World’s plug? After all, doesn’t the next issue title “Mister Miracle To Be” sound like it would detail Scott’s experiences leading up to issue #1? All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

The changes are improvements: in the published version, instead of welcoming Scott to remain with him, Himon urges him toward liberty; and, instead of wanting to “know,” Scott sets out to find himself, an echo of his father’s Izaya’s same quest in “The Pact.”) Having spoken up for himself, Scott seems to turn from us and leap into the distance, to freedom. “Himon” is not a perfect story. There are moments of blurred continuity near the end that are perhaps distracting, and I think too that Kirby struggles to develop Scott and Barda’s relationship as the story hurtles to its close (Scott’s tardy recognition of Barda’s strength, on page 24, is flat 67

Adam McGovern concentration camp inmates, or the Darwinian strife of Kirby’s own childhood in the ethnic ghettos of early 20th-century America. That last point is central in distinguishing this story from much of adventure fiction. The tale is so riveting that the reader might not at first realize how decisively it diverges from the conventions of its genre. It is stunning to note, for instance, how little “action” the story contains—or at least how little in the forms pop-culture consumers are conditioned

here came a time when the Fourth World cycle, Jack Kirby’s symbolic war of cosmic forces, benefited from a much more mundane contest. A battle for newsstand supremacy between Kirby’s then-publisher DC and the other industry giant of those days, Marvel, led to an increased page-count for several issues of each series in Kirby’s trilogy. This gave his saga the space it seemed most suited for. “Himon” in Mister Miracle was one of the longest episodes of that title’s run (though it appeared in the first issue after the pagecounts came back down, presumably produced by Kirby before he saw this coming). However, this most momentous and moving story of his career is remarkable not for spectacular sprawl but expressive economy. Like “The Pact” in New Gods, “Himon” flashed back in Kirby’s modern-day mythos to give the nightmare-fairytale background of how the saga’s apocalyptic celestial conflict—which mirrored the real-life superpower struggle of the time—came to pass. The enlargement of the preceding few issues had serendipitously created the most favorable conditions for this tour de force, carving out pages for some establishing chapters in the life of “Young Scott Free” (though in a sure sign of Kirby’s concision, these three installments themselves totaled 10 pages). While lacking the poetry of the full-length conclusion, their mise en scène is thoroughly imagined, and they let Kirby dispense with all needed exposition before the psychodramatic main event. That finale reads as Kirby’s most poignant and personal tale, and it can scarcely be coincidental that it is his most distinctly Jewish. Himon is a sympathetic reinvention of a literary icon with infamous anti-Semitic overtones (Fagin), and his name is a phonetic equivalent of the Hebrew one most ridiculed in English (Hyman, a.k.a. Hymie), though it translates as “Life.” Scott’s story is clearly a Moses narrative, though in keeping with the corrupted times it reflects, the hero is not saved by his family, nurtured by their enemy, and destined to become a prophetic liberator, but is instead sacrificed by his own kind, brutalized by his foster society, and consumed with rebuilding his own life as a haunted refugee. The entire cast’s dog-eat-dog relations recall the dehumanized pecking order among WWII 68

to expect it. There is violence aplenty, but mostly of the kind we turn to fiction to forget: guerrilla war-style peasant slaughters; attempted political executions; senseless torture; petty assassinations; haggard fugitive flights. In an acute understanding of the essence of terror, we are given scares by much more than we actually witness: we don’t see the shocks administered to Auralie; we don’t see Willik’s club connect with Kreetin; we see few of Himon’s sentences carried out to the end, and Willik’s fate

only from a distance. The seductive spectacle is denied us, and only the resolutely unattractive inhumanity underlying it is left. This austere drama is established from the outset, when Kirby’s panoramic doublepage spread offers us none of the energetic activity or cosmic vistas this device was usually known for, but instead just frames the quiet enormity of an oppressive existence. With constricted circumstances comes tight storytelling; the nine-lives sequence on pages 14-15 is a masterstroke of brisk but unchoppy exposition, well paced to the Himon character’s hounded state. The revelation of Scott’s hair-growth (page 18, panel 4), a trifle in our world but a grave offense in his, serves as subtle yet explosive shorthand for the distance he is traveling, and an incisive emblem for maturation and metamorphosis (though in the “get a haircut” era in which this piece first saw print, Kirby may have meant the image as more than a metaphor). Kirby’s bravura art was always persuasive, and here it is matched with an uncommon textual eloquence. Scott and Himon’s exchange about Auralie on pages 9-10 pithily implies Scott’s need to embrace the feminine principle as a step in his moral growth (and Himon’s justification for Auralie’s presence is itself a thoughtful updating of the cast’s lost-boys archetype which transcends mere concession to the reflexive P.C. tokenism then coming into vogue). In Barda’s confusion at her reasons for helping Scott on page 23, panel 5, a handful of roughhewn sentences insightfully sketch the tragedy of a well-meaning person with no language for love. Himon’s and Metron’s dialogue can sometimes shade into technobabble, but most of the time it befits the modernized divinities they were meant to be; and, in perhaps the quintessential example of Kirby’s admirable objectivity about his peers’ shortcomings in a time of generational warfare, page 26, panel 1 sees an exchange of competing agendas for Scott shouted literally over his head by two of his would-be father figures, in his presence yet in the third person, while he struggles, and finally works his way out, alone. The penciled originals provide a revelation in this regard— Kirby nearly botched his most moving moment. By and large, these originals indicate as always how remarkably complete Kirby’s vision erupted onto the page—Kirby wrote as he went along, with no known preparatory script and few subsequent second guesses. A comparison of these pages to the published version shows how faithfully inker and letterer Mike Royer recorded these inspirations—every image is intact, though in the text Royer saves Kirby from a fearsome tendency toward comma abuse, and either stacks previously-horizontal captions in floating vertical boxes, or segments the narration off into the white space between panels, in a satisfyingly slicker and more modernized design than Kirby’s. But a comparison of the first and final versions of page 26

shows a major turning point. Darkseid and Himon trade a threat and a boast, and Scott’s parting declaration begins life as the clunkier “Let me be Scott Free and first know myself.” Whoever had the idea to sharpen the older gods’ exchange to a paternal contest with Biblically parallel language, and streamline Scott’s exclamation from the Socratic chestnut “know thyself ” to the psychotherapy slogan “find yourself,” made very wise choices, much more in tune with both the satiric and exalted aspects of these topical deities. Scott’s sentiment is a pivotal point in Kirby’s creation of the definitive anti-action epic: The saga of a humble hero who achieves his greatest victory not through a reckless battle but a principled retreat, and effects his greatest escape not through the terrors he flees but the truths he finally faces. ★

Adrian Day “Darkseid, Highfather and the rest of the cast have always been sincere expressions of my feelings—reactions to all the things I knew were out there in the night, like the scrabbling of an unseen army of claws, or the beating of wings in nocturnal vigilance over sleepers in repose.” Jack Kirby ’m a survivor,” Jack once said of himself, then thinking for a moment quickly revised his statement. “I’m a master survivor!” It was a defining statement for a man who, in the latter part of his career, saw survival as the theme of his most serious work. It should be no surprise then that when Jack chose to align himself with one of his own creations, the character he chose was also a master survivor, or in Jack’s words, “the master technician, the master of swiftness and temperatures, the ultimate escape artist.” To the best of my knowledge, Jack never acknowledged any kinship between himself and the central figure of Mister Miracle #9, yet the similarities are striking. They are so striking, in fact, that not even a quote from Kirby to the contrary could convince me otherwise. Himon vacillates between a caricature and a serious portrait of Jack, both physically and spiritually. Even within the context of the story, the references made to Himon are equally fitting as epithets for Jack. Our introduction to Himon has a wonderful mixture of the farcical and the dramatic. When an attempt is made to exterminate him in the slums of Armagetto, he appears as a formidable shadowy figure in a wall of flame. His humorous side is quickly revealed when his escape attempt, via Mother Box, lands him inside a wall due to faulty circuitry. Scott Free comes to his aid and saves him from being imbedded there permanently. Their relationship in this scene is reminiscent of W.C. Fields and Freddie Bartholomew in Cukor’s David Copperfield, a story that also played no small part in the inspiration for the Mister Miracle series. Even Himon’s most serious moments are tempered by the mischievous pranks of the trickster. His escapes are underscored with a sense of humor, when Himon resurfaces in a crowd as a spectator to his own execution. The elimination of Wonderful Willik by way of an exploding dinner tray, when Himon avenges the deaths of his pupils, is something out of Looney Tunes. Through all this, it is an image of Jack that we see in this unlikely hero. The meeting between Himon and Metron, near the story’s climax, reads like some imagined exchange between Jack and a young Roy Thomas. Metron greets Himon as the “master of theories,” an appropriate title for Kirby. Himon calls Metron the “master of elements” which Roy unquestionably was in his heyday at Marvel, when the best of his efforts involved a masterful weaving of storylines previously established by Jack. When Metron declares, “the wonders I build are born in your brain! The roads that I travel are opened by your massive perception!”, he makes a statement to which every writer and artist following Jack in the field of comics is heir.

“I

(above) Next-issue blurb from Mister Miracle #8. (below) The “master of theories” meets the “master of elements.” (next page) Himon made his final appearance in the Hunger Dogs graphic novel, to plague Darkseid one last time before his eventual demise. All characters TM & ©2002 DC Comics.

Symbols of Duality in the Fourth World Of all the stories within Jack’s Fourth World series, “Himon” is the most mature and central to the greater theme concerning the duality of God in the consciousness of man. “Himon” is a masterful allegory about making a choice of which God or power we will attach ourselves to and the rewards and consequences that come with either choice. These ideas, which are subtext throughout Jack’s other tales, are the focal point of the plot here. Himon and Darkseid represent the opposite sides of that duality. Scott Free is in the middle, finally confronted with his moment of decision. This is the theme laid out for us since New Gods #1 where the setting for the Fourth World conflict was established with New Genesis and Apokolips on either side and Earth (man) as their battleground at the center. The internal struggle represented by this duality and the dark side of human nature are very much at the heart of Jack’s story and a key to understanding Darkseid and what he symbolizes. As Jack explains, “Darkseid never told a lie. He never deserted his son. When he meets this old man with his grandson in Happyland, he says, ‘When you’re asleep and you have a nightmare, I’m the guy you’re seeing—the other side of yourself.’ Because the other side of yourself is insecure. It’s villainous, it’s treacherous— and don’t tell me that there may not come a time, in considering your life against someone else’s, you would betray him.” Himon, in counterpoint to Darkseid, is all that is noble within us. He is an indomitable spirit that, to the frustration of Darkseid’s minions, proves indestructible. He dares to have an imagination. He dreams beyond Darkseid, an act that on Apokolips is unthinkable and perilous. The freedom that he shows Scott Free is in reality an internal one. Scott’s physical escape is merely that final act of commitment to a choice he has already made.

The Source of Inspiration Many understand the New Gods books to be stories about war and to be Jack’s statement on the nature of war. Certainly, those elements are there. When the series was produced, the Vietnam War was still raging and much of the sentiment of the times filtered through Jack’s stories. His views on the futility of war can be found throughout the New Gods. Kirby, himself a veteran of World War II, had seen firsthand the worst in human nature. Apokolips, without question, is the logical extension of the Nazi Death Camp, encompassing an entire planet. Kirby was also well aware that Scott Free’s infraction of military guidelines for aero-troopers in growing his hair long would resonate within the culture of American youth who were in opposition to government and war. These examples notwithstanding, Jack’s vision was much broader and the evils he was attempting to uncover were more subtle; indeed, more personal. Kirby saw the fires that feed an Apokolips or an Auschwitz burning in the normal situations of everyday life. He saw destroyers like Darkseid, seeking an equivalent of the Anti-life Equation, operating at every level of our existence. These were the themes and convictions closest to Jack’s heart when he embarked on his Fourth World series. Said Jack, “I felt there was a time that a man has to tell a story in which he felt, not anybody else, in which he felt there was no bullsh*t. There was absolute truth.” In “Himon” and the like, Jack had an opportunity to tell that truth. It is the conviction that Jack didn’t pull any punches with these tales that convinces me the inspiration

for Mister Miracle #9 is very likely drawn from his own personal experience. If we consider Jack’s first tenure at Marvel, under the work-for-hire contract as the source of that inspiration, the parallels become fairly obvious. When Scott asks Himon why he poses so great a threat to Darkseid, he explains, “I’m a dreamer! A visionary! A ‘think-tank’ who pioneered the calculating Mother Box and linked it to the Source! I found the X-Element and pioneered the Boom Tube! I dream! I roam the universe!! Darkseid wants to own it!!” Could not Kirby be speaking about the myriad host of creations and concepts he pioneered for the “House of Ideas,” only to have them taken away from him? It wasn’t until after Kirby’s second tenure at Marvel that he seemed to display an outspoken disdain and a certain sense of bitterness toward the system supported by the two major comic book publishers. He had, by then, been thrice bitten and feelings that once were cloaked in allegory in stories like “Himon” were now declared openly from Jack’s own mouth. Tired of the persistent failure to give him the due credit of authorship on his Marvel work, he set the record straight. “I wrote them all,” he declared in a newsstand fan publication. When pressed about the contradicting credits on all those Mighty Marvel splash pages, he replied, “Well, I never wrote the credits. Let’s put it that way, all right? I would never call myself ‘Jolly Jack.’ I would never say the books were written by Lee.” The reverence Jack held for the act of creation and for creators is quite evident in “Himon.” The variety of character types that people this story very likely resembled those Jack worked with. Some are hopelessly selfserving like Kretin, others radiate some spark

of brilliance, and some like Auralie possess a beauty and imagination that is out of place among the shadows of Apokolips. Jack put a high premium on the imagination. A guy who could come up with a wonderful character through the act of imagination, Jack believed, could do great things. He had more to offer than the power moguls, those in authority whose accomplishments had more to do with control and maneuvering, simply because they called all the shots. Jack believed in giving the little guy a chance. He took the “Auralies” of life under his wing.

Escaping the Apokolips Trap Scott Free’s escape from Apokolips mirrors Jack’s departure from Marvel and, if taken as an allegory, shares some disturbing parallels. If we place Jack in the role of Scott Free, which ultimately we must do since Himon and Mister Miracle are in some sense two aspects of the same character, then we must place Stan Lee in the role of Darkseid with all that it implies. That implication is that Stan Lee feared or was threatened by Jack because of his abilities (“pioneer,” “dreamer,” “visionary”) and that he wanted to dominate Jack (“Darkseid fears what he

can’t control”). Certainly, Jack was not making a personal statement about Stan. According to Jack, “Stan Lee as a person is no better or worse than anybody else.” His goal, rather, was to show the evil that resides in us all, hidden or sanctioned under comfortable euphemisms like “good business,” “standard procedure” or “perfectly legal.” Evil residing in man is infinitely more subtle and more difficult to identify than the good guy/bad guy stories we so enjoy. As Jack would remind us, even Darkseid has standards. When Darkseid stands at the gates of Greyborders and witnesses Scott’s escape, he observes, “If courage and bravery took him here, some of it was mine!” Looking back on those early days at Marvel, it is easy to see that it owed much of its success to both Stan and Jack. Stan’s self-aggrandizing style was hard to find fault with in terms of what it achieved for Marvel in publicity. It gave the fans a tangible high-profile persona with which to associate those wonderful comics. Stan fostered the image that fed “Marvelmania.” Stan mythologized the Marvel staff the way that Jack mythologized the Fantastic Four or Thor. Stan sold Marvel. He converted an army of “true believers.” Jack was Marvel. He populated the Marvel Universe. Without Stan, there wouldn’t be a Marvel today. Without Jack, there never would have been a Marvel. Why Stan chooses to remember himself as the creator of the Marvel stable of characters is baffling. Perhaps Stan pantomimed so long to the voice of Jack’s creation that he genuinely believed the voice came from him. His account of their creation is ridiculous, childish treacle but his delivery is in earnest. He believes every word of it. In the end, Stan more closely resembles Big Bird than Darkseid, just a big, dumb bird who means well but gets everything wrong. Unfortunately the results of his bumbling are not as innocent or benign. How closely Jack would have wanted us to associate the Himon story with the events of his own life is debatable. Intended or not, the parallels are there. Darkseid may not be Stan Lee, but can there be any doubt that Himon is Jack? Himon told Scott that when we tap into the Source, “The core of ourselves is magnified and we tower as tall as Darkseid.” Jack, through his work, magnified his core until he towered above Darkseid. In the end, he towers above the historical fabrication and misdirected praise. ★

The Mister Miracle To Be

In Closing

y the time Mister Miracle #10 hit the stands, the winds of change were already blowing hard at DC. I was, as yet, completely unaware that they were pulling the plug on Jack’s Fourth World. Still, something seemed dramatically different in the approach to the book. Something I couldn’t put my finger on was missing. It opened, by all appearances, like any other chapter in the Mister Miracle saga. The only hint that anything was

amiss came from the DC house ad for the upcoming Kamandi series. I remember wondering how Jack could handle another book when he was already writing, drawing and editing four. Whether I realized it then or not, the Mister Miracle I knew was gone, just as surely as if it had shared the fate of its companion series. It would not be inaccurate to state that issue #10 was actually the beginning of Jack’s second Mister Miracle series. Even the story’s title, “The Mister Miracle To Be,” seemed to bear that out. The edict had already come down, unbeknownst to most readers, that Jack’s Fourth World was to go the way of the Dodo. Mister Miracle would remain but with all flights to Apokolips grounded. Future storylines were to be earthbound with no subplots or ongoing themes. All stories would be brought to a firm resolution at the end of each issue. It was essentially a reduction of Kirbyism, which in itself is antithetical. Only now do I begin to appreciate the task that Jack was faced with, what he tried to do, and why it did not and could not work. The good people at DC had reasoned, no doubt, that Mister Miracle had the makings of a successful book without the New Gods connection and in this assertion, they were probably correct. The basic idea of the escape artist/super-hero was a good one and Jack could have gone in fifty different directions with it and had a solid and entertaining premise for a series. The problem was that neither DC nor Jack, with all his talent, could dismiss the previous character development or the expectations already firmly planted in the minds of every reader. To follow up on those previous developments was now forbidden, to deny them impossible, and to ignore them, as nine subsequent issues of Mister Miracle would demonstrate, was problematic to say the least. As I look back on that troublesome issue #10 now, I recognize what eluded me as a twelveyear old. “The Mister Miracle To Be” appeared to contain all the familiar Kirby architecture. “The World Protective League,” “The Head,” the “Tinker’s Shop,” and the “Orbital Plague Bomb” were all reminiscent of the wonderful Kirby concepts so typical of his work since the early Sixties but

for one difference: For the first time, they were presented without any genuine sincerity or commitment. Suddenly with Mister Miracle #10, these elements had become disposable, useful only as props to advance the plot. The complex nature of evil as Jack so skillfully presented it throughout his Fourth World series was replaced by the childish notions of a more adolescent worldview. The story’s villains, in this instance, were quickly repentant after their plans were thwarted, spouting such innocuous dialogue as “I’m going straight after this. I’m not going to waste my second chance.” Mister Miracle #11, while it introduced no new concepts, revisited old ones with similar apathy. Dr. Bedlam returned, but minus the thrill and ingenuity of his first encounter. Mother Box, mentioned throughout the story, seemed equally benign, cut off from her connection to the Source. Indeed, Mother Box, the last Fourth World concept to endure, would not be referenced past issue #11. All future mention of Scott’s escape technology referred to his hood “circuitry.” Even the Female Furies were quietly being “phased out,” to use a Fourth World pun. They would not be seen again after a brief appearance in Mister Miracle #14. The new Mister Miracle went on to face more mundane nemeses such as Mystivac (an alien disguised as a buck-toothed robot), Madame Evil Eyes, and King Komodo. The artwork for the series grew less detailed and compelling as Kirby seemed to fall into a shorthand derivative of his former efforts. All the big visionary concepts that were so characteristic of Kirby’s writing were absent. Even the new escape routines, being strapped to missile projected at a mine or bound to a railroad track, were banal and unimaginative compared with earlier concepts. In point of fact, the whole escape-artist shtick seemed to be reduced to nothing more than Scott Free’s 9-to-5, with his real adventures taking place outside of the context of his special talents. New characters like Shiloh Norman only served to blur the distinction further until there was nothing left in the plots from issue to issue to differentiate them in any way from any other super-hero storyline. With the progressive disintegration of the elements that originally made the series popular, Mister Miracle now faced the one trap he could not possibly escape: Inevitable cancellation. Stripped of his heritage, Mister Miracle quickly dissipated into a one-dimensional shadow of his former self. Big Barda, the once-fiery Special Powers Training Officer,

had also grown unbearably tame. The inability to explore the richness of the characters, as they had been originally conceived, left no room for story interest beyond the most superficial elements and plot conventions. To borrow an old phrase, Mister Miracle was “all dressed up with no place to go.” Consequently, when issue #18 arrived sporting a copious cast of Fourth World characters, no one mistook it for anything other than what it was meant to be: A swan song. Outside of its function as a final farewell, it was one of Kirby’s most uneven offerings

to date. The wedding of Mister Miracle and Big Barda, around which the plot revolved, was unprecedented considering the lack of character development that had plagued the series since its renovation. It was a lackluster ending that had been long expected. Mister Miracle, after defying so many split-second, life-threatening traps had died a slow, agonizing death. By this time, it must have come as something of a relief for Jack. ★

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Send letters to: THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR c/o TwoMorrows • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 E-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com • See back issue excerpts at: www.twomorrows.com

All letters will be considered for publication unless you specify otherwise. We reserve the right to edit for length, clarity, or to help Scott Free find himself.

(We’ve got a few corrections from last issue. First, about copyrights: Private Strong/The Shield was erroneously copyrighted to Harvey Comics. The original publisher was Archie Comics, but Archie transferred copyrights of the Shield and the Fly to Joe Simon, so it should’ve read “©Joe Simon.” Also, inks on the Paul Ryan page with Annihilus (from The World's Greatest Comic Magazine) were credited to Al Gordon, but were actually inked by Al Milgrom. Finally, a caption in last issue's “Kirby As a Genre” column credited artwork from AC Comics' Fighting Yank to Bill Black alone; the image was actually penciled by Eric Coile and inked by Black, each under Marvel-ous pseudonyms. Our apologies to all these gents—now, let’s dig in:) I’ve heard a rumor that Kirby drew an unpublished MR. MIRACLE #2 story. Seems this unpublished story was slated for that ish & for some reason or other was rejected and Jack drew another similar story that became the published MM #2. Pete Koch tells me he saw this story years ago (we’re talking 20+ years) at a convention, but didn’t have the funds to buy it. Do you know anything about this? Mike Gartland, Wallington, NJ (It’s news to us; anyone out there know anything about this?)

was captivated by Captain America; my first comic at the age of seven was CAP #102, courtesy of an obviously discriminating grandmother.) I’m baffled as to why Jack’s Marvelmania Cap poster wasn’t the one published... to me it’s not only better than the Steranko entry, it would have been the best of the lot. With Tom Z’s colors, it’s a great cover. The other delights in this issue are the Sinnott FF page, the unused art from the ’50s and the BULLSEYE original art (some full-size BOYS’ RANCH art would also be much appreciated). The sketches from Jack’s hardbound volumes are always a treat, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to see some of his pulp illustrations. The cover pencils and original art beautifully set off Brian Morris’ Losers overview, and Mark Alexander's SHIELD article was informative as well as provocative. With the benefit of hindsight, it’s easy to be judgmental regarding the decision to cancel the Fourth World books, to blame it on inaccurate sales figures or unreasonable expectations. What struck me about the Carmine Infantino interview was the fact that he once idolized Kirby; details like this add a human element to the impassionate history. For some reason this calls to mind the words of Himon: “I—fostered— Darkseid’s power! I must be here... at its—end—!" Jack was there when Lee and Infantino got started in the business... it’s hard not to wonder how things might have been had either of them trusted his instincts more completely. Mike Hill, Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Nice TJKC issue; adventurously expansive yet masterfully cohesive in its interpretation of the theme, not to mention perhaps the most revelatory cache of forgotten Kirby yet—amazing that the vein remains this rich after so many decades of mining. BIG GAME HUNTER was a special hoot—yet another entire genre Kirby almost invented, though I’m sure I speak for Jane Goodall in my relief that this one didn’t quite make the history books. Adam McGovern, Mt. Tabor, NJ (The response to BIG GAME HUNTER was incredibly favorable across the board—so much so that we’re presenting a couple of the remaining panels from unfinished pages in this letter column. For those who are curious, all the art was sent to us by an anonymous fan; it didn’t come from the Kirbys.)

Re: Your editorial in TJKC #34. The first panel on page 3 of CAPTAIN AMERICA #200 shows Cap leading a combat team, saying, “LET’S ROLL!” Kinda brings a tear to the eye of this fan. Rex Ferrell, Boston, MA After 33 issues, what more could there be to say about the work of Jack Kirby? Quite a lot, actually. TJKC #34 is another good one, a fitting tribute to the heroes of September. On top of that, the lineup of future issues looks stellar. Once again much of this issue is suitable for framing: the selection of tabloid-size pencil pages is remarkable. (Even as a child growing up in Canada I 76

May I compliment you on another great issue. Every time another one arrives I immediately dig in and have fun for a couple of days. #34 was especially good for me, because it had so much on Kirby’s work in the Fifties, the period of his career that seems to interest me the most. It’s not even that he did his best work then. I’d have to nominate his work in the late Forties for that... after the groundbreaking stuff he did with the FF and THOR in the Sixties. But the Fifties was the period with the most upheavals in his creative life and that makes for the most interesting copy. The articles on Jack’s pulp work and his newspaper strip concepts were well researched and even better illustrated. That’s what we want. I am surprised at the fact that there is always new unpublished stuff from an artist who was so prolific anyway. Makes you wonder how much more there may be. The unused covers/splash pages for some crime and romance concepts that were used to illustrate

the Joe Simon interview were a big surprise. How can anyone look at them and say Kirby was not at his peak in those years? It seems to me he was always at his best when he had to time to work on his stuff, and he never worked harder than when he had to make samples, as was illustrated with the next bonus: BIG GAME HUNTER. Why you didn’t advertise that one a lot more, amazes me. It has adventure, it has gorillas, it’s almost a whole story that has never before seen the daylight. And after that there is even a cover for YOUNG ABE LINCOLN (which seems to be from a slightly earlier period). But the biggest surprise for me was one little quote in the Carmine Infantino interview. I have stumbled across a particular problem about identifying Kirby art that I planned to address in an article. It’s to do with the division of labor between Jack and Joe Simon. In several interviews later in his life, Kirby said he liked to work in a studio, where he could sometimes pick up a brush and quickly correct the work of an artist if it wasn’t quite right or needed a little extra. If you look at some of the romance, horror and crime titles of the Fifties, you can clearly identify the places where he did that. But there was one catch: Most of the time Kirby was identifiable by the way he used his brush. He had a way of putting down a shadow that is very typical. When everyone around him was trying to make the shadows smooth, Kirby used what I would call “choppy shadows,” and he did so all his life. It is one of those quirks of an artist’s style that appear early in the career and never disappear. Shadows aren’t smooth; they are roughly edged. The first time you see this in Kirby’s work is in the charcoal drawings he did in the war. Indeed, the effect itself is similar to that of putting down a pencil or piece of charcoal sideways and making a little block of shadow, instead of smoothly tracing it along the edge of the object that the shadow falls upon. All through the Fifties, Kirby used this, but it never showed up in his pencils. It was something that was added later on, in the inking. When he stopped having control over the inking in his early Marvel years, that stylistic effect disappeared from his work. Only later in his career, after he started working with Joe Sinnott, did the effect start showing up again in the pencils. Maybe it was because he thought Sinnott’s inking was too slick. Maybe it was just because the higher pay rate allowed him to put some more time in the pencils and make them more his own. When Mike Royer started inking him, they were a full part of the Kirby style as we have come to know it. But if Joe Simon was the inker on the early Kirby work, how can we call it a Kirby style element? Isn’t it a Joe Simon style element, that simply rubbed off on Jack Kirby? I had another look at the pages from the Forties and the Fifties and I couldn’t imagine that that would be the case. I had another look through all the books about Simon & Kirby; not a mention was made about the method of collaboration. I had a look at the work Joe Simon did on his own later in the Fifties. Nowhere did the inking on that seem even remotely like the work of Simon & Kirby. I had a look at the work of other Kirby inkers, like Mort Meskin, Marv Stein, and Bill Draut, and they too all had their own styles. Then DC published the “Green Arrow” stories Kirby did in the late Fifties. On some of those, Roz Kirby is credited as the inker and several people have commented how well she did that. And there it was again... choppy shadows. This from a period when Joe Simon and Jack Kirby were no longer working

together. The answer seemed clear now. Roz didn’t do the shadows on those “Green Arrow” stories. She traced the pencils after which Kirby did the shadow work with a brush. On some of those pages it is even clear that Roz wasn’t that good a tracer. The lines are wobbly and unsure, as they should be when you let your wife do it. And that was probably the answer to my questions about the collaboration between Simon and Kirby. Simon traced the pencils and Kirby added the shadows. I had worked it out. I was so proud. It was going to be such a great article. And then I read the Carmine Infantino interview: “Jack would pencil five to six pages a day and then Joe would outline them and Jack would go back and fill the blacks in.” There it was, black-and-white. The conclusion I had worked on for months was no big secret at all. It was probably well known to everyone who had any intimate knowledge of Jack Kirby. It was just never stated anywhere until now. Thanks, guys, and keep it coming. Ger Apeldorn, NETHERLANDS Before TJKC began, my knowledge of Jack’s work was adequate (only dating back to 1961); but after years of working on the JACK KIRBY CHECKLIST, I’ve learned so much more from Jack’s fans and TJKC readers about the breadth and depth of Jack’s work, both published and unpublished. Correct and updated data helps all of us Kollectors find the books we seek. I’m imploring TJKC readers, if you know of Kirby artwork not previously listed, or artwork erroneously credited to Kirby, don’t be shy. Send it in! Photocopies of art, publisher and date information, page counts and artist/inker credits are always appreciated. House ads are not sought unless notable for artwork being original to the ad, or a variant of a published version. I don’t have the big bucks to acquire and inspect Golden Age comics, so the CHECKLIST relies on your eyes and expert judgement. Dig into those long boxes, and crack open those CGC slabs if you must, because historical accuracy is key! Richard Kolkman, P.O. Box 50053, Indianapolis, IN 46250, bigflatcit@aol.com

(We don’t usually run full addresses, but in Richard’s case we make an exception, since we want every Kirby fan out there to keep in contact with him, so he

can continue the stellar work he’s doing updating the KIRBY CHECKLIST. His work on it is ongoing, so keep tracking down new material and corrections, and send them to Richard!) Just read a book called CARTER BEATS THE DEVIL, by Glen David Gold, published in 2001. It’s a work of historical fiction loosely based on the life of Charles J. Carter, a stage illusionist of some note from the golden age of magic during the 1920s. I recommend the book as an engaging piece of fiction, and was surprised and delighted to read this acknowledgement at the end: “Inspiration came from the unbeatable troika of genius storytellers: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko.” Goes to show you never know who’s going to be influenced by Kirby’s work, and in what way. Bruce Younger, Rochester, NY Who would guess that a regular book with such seemingly limited subject matter as the work of one creator could be so varied in its content. From ’40s pulp illos to ’70s action comics and all the shades of grey in between, TJKC #34 had it all. And despite all this variety between its covers, it was still very different from last issue’s FF theme. A very satisfying package. A few comments on the issue: The covers: Great front cover pic, and another that bore the results of your very welcome habit of making nearly every second cover different in design. With the back cover I’m really surprised that Alex Toth was willing to let you publish it. He is one of those great men whose abilities and understanding of the art form are so good that he commands respect even from those who don’t actually “like” his art (I hope that makes sense). Yet his inks here are uncharacteristically weak. He obviously knew that and said so in his note. Nevertheless, I’m surprised. Mark Evanier’s column was his best yet. Lots of stuff I’d never heard before. The ’50s pencils: These to me were the real treasure in the issue. I’ve always loved Jack’s ’60s and ’70s work and have found his ’40s work a wonderful acquired taste, but the ’50s work is different again. All the lithe, twisting energy of the ’40s is there but with the strength and character of the ’60s, and to my eye, for some reason it is mostly head and shoulders above the first year of the FANTASTIC FOUR. We can also see solidly constructed pencil forms and figures of a kind that Jack seemed to discard in his later work, where he often substituted abstract black shapes. Usually, the master got away with his later style well. We can see (or feel) that those unnatural shadow forms provided a hint of form and power and we could appreciate they had arisen from the mind of a craftsman who understood what he was doing; but there are other times—such as the CAP #207 cover on page 68—where it seems Jack is “looking” for the effect he wants but doesn’t find it (with the revisions made in the inked version making it better, though not as good as a “good” Kirby drawing). This happened more and more as he got older and left all trace of “constructing” his figures behind. Sometimes, it is hard to believe their aren’t two artists at work here.

Capped Off? A run-through of the resolution (at least for now) of Joe Simon’s fight for ownership of Captain America, by Adam McGovern As our previous issue was hitting the racks and this one was going to press, the news came that Joe Simon’s lawsuit to recapture his copyright for Captain America from Marvel Comics had failed. The court essentially upheld a late-1960s action in which Simon signed away his rights to the character and agreed that it had been a “work for hire” arrangement, though he more recently asserted that he had not understood the document (a plausible confusion related to his lawyers’ assertion that, had he really been work-for-hire, there would be no rights for him to give up). The newer case had been closely watched by fans interested in fair treatment for the often-deprived Depression-era creators of lucrative characters. Its outcome was believed to have reverberations for other such suits by the creators or their estates, and for the (low) likelihood that today’s artists and writers will be enthusiastic to create characters for the work-for-hire-based majors like Marvel and DC. The latter has already been a rare occurrence for some decades; examples of the former are thus far few, and it seems most are being brought against and settled by deeperpocketed DC. Marvel instead sought to have Simon’s suit essentially dismissed, and won. (In the headier days of Simon’s late-’60s suit, he too received a payoff, albeit a fraction of what others have made from the character, in any year’s dollars.) Though many respected creators’ unions from other media had sided with Simon, support was sparse within his own field, perhaps due to ambivalence caused by the widespread perception, denied in the suit, that Cap was co-created by this magazine’s namesake. At press time it was not known what further legal options Simon might pursue (although there is talk of an appeal), and both parties were mum to the media, but ironically, a week after the judgment and with oddly little fanfare, a creator credit for Stan Lee and Steve Ditko started appearing in Marvel’s flagship title Amazing SpiderMan. Thus, an ambiguous struggle ended in limited legal defeats and moral victories for creators, with uncertain implications for further advances. Meanwhile, readers are encouraged to check out the very interesting things Marvel is again doing with many of its characters (not least Captain America), and to become involved with ACTOR, the charity to get Golden Age creators some of their long-overdue respect and financial security: ACTOR (A Commitment To Our Roots), 11301 Olympic Blvd., #587, Los Angeles, CA 90064; phone: 310-2681530; website: www.actorcomicfund.org ★ 77

BIG GAME HUNTER is magnificent, as were the strips on page 29. A couple of questions however: Are you sure the incomplete page shown on page 52 is from the ’50s? Those heavier, blockier figures look more akin to the ’60s “SHIELD” pages than ABE LINCOLN or BIG GAME HUNTER to me, and those 2 pages shown on page 68 certainly have a Kirby layout look, but they look to me like a different hand has begun the finishing, smoothing them out and losing a lot of the Kirby energy. SHIELD: I really enjoyed this piece by Mark, on a series I have never given much credence to before. Two tiny (inconsequential) comments: 1) Does Mark really feel Buscema’s “SHIELD” outing over Kirby’s layouts was “disastrous” or is he just echoing Buscema’s own disparaging words? I know Buscema himself always talked of it in very negative terms, but for my money it was great (as does a certain TJKC editor, judging by the comments next to the published page). 2) Despite cover dates, AVENGERS #18 did not predate STRANGE TALES #135. They were on sale the same month, as shown by the checklist at the time. As I noted in my “Kirby Krackle” article last issue, AVENGERS, X-MEN and DAREDEVIL—and perhaps others—got their dates out of sync early and continued that way until corrected in 1971. Maybe it reflects that those issues originally went on sale earlier in the month than others, but it seems to me that the checklists are a better guide to concurrent issues than the month appearing on the covers. As I said, inconsequential stuff. A question: Did Jack draw with 2 pencils, or just one with a chiselled edge? The Cap vs. Batman pic and the 2-pager on pages 40 and 41 are great ones to show Jack’s lighter, thinner construction and outline, then a thicker, heavier line from a wider lead for the blacks, stress lines and krackle (not that the krackle appears in either of these.) Shane Foley, AUSTRALIA (I’ll admit I’m just guessing that the incomplete page was from the 1950s, but it sure looked like it to me. Any other opinions out there? Also, from what I’ve read and heard, Jack drew with one pencil only, generally an HB lead. He may have used the side of the lead for darker lines though.)

About a year ago, I read an interview with Scott Shaw in which he told of being in a production meeting with Jack Kirby among others at HannaBarbara about a proposed animated Kiss cartoon for Saturday morning TV. I tracked Scott down at this year’s San Diego Con and asked him if Kirby had done any sketches for the meeting. He said that he specifically remembers that Kirby did, because he remembered the TV people’s reaction to them was that the artwork looked “too sexy” for a kid’s TV show, which is an odd comment about Kirby’s work if there ever was one. It’s my understanding Hanna-Barbara was later bought by Warner Brothers. Does anybody have a line on this? The fact that sketches exist by my favorite artist of my favorite band that almost no one has ever seen is exasperating to say the least! Gene Simmons of Kiss himself is a huge Kirby fan. He thanked him personally on the back of his solo album for inspiration. If the sketches ever surface, I envision a limited edition portfolio. JACK KIRBY PRESENTS KISS: THE LOST ART. So, once again, if there is anybody out there who has a contact with Warner Brothers, etc., please investigate further. If the sketches still exist, it’d be a damn shame for them to sit in a vault like the lost ark, when they would mean so much to comic fans and Kiss fans alike. David Lucarelli via e-mail (It’s a cool idea, but as for where they would’ve ended up, it's anyone’s guess. There are thousands of animation drawings, unseen by the public, that were either thrown away or stuck on a shelf in some vault or other. We’ll do our best to present as many as possible here.) I love the new tabloid format. It doesn’t fit our mailbox. On Christmas Eve, our mail carrier hand-delivered #33. I left her holiday lemon bars as thanks. TJKC #33 was outstanding. I especially enjoyed Glen Gold’s analysis of the “Mad Thinker” issue. Even as a kid I felt that the real Mad Thinker was the person who had come up with that nutty story. The Awesome Android didn’t even scare my cousin, and he feared everything. Shane Foley’s article was also well done; I’ve had Kirby Krackles for breakfast. On the Friday before Easter, our mail carrier handdelivered TJKC #34. She muttered, “All your mail says DO NOT BEND, so I don’t.” The Cap cover was brilliant. I opened the book to the center spread. I felt for Cap. Kirby’s scene DOES hit like a living bulldozer! Kudos to Mark Alexander for his in-depth

article on Nick Fury. I’m expecting our mail carrier to arrive the Friday before Memorial Day with TJKC #35. I anticipate #36 arriving on August 25, my birthday. (I believe that’s a big Morrows day too!) So thanks to your new format, we’ve gotten to know our mail carrier better. She’s no Willie Lumpkin, but then I’m no Johnny Storm. Keep up the great work!!! Gregory Janicke, Beaufort, NC The recent special edition DVD release of Disney’s ATLANTIS: THE LOST EMPIRE brings Jack’s name (if not his work) to the general public. In the supplemental disc, the Art Direction section has in its third section the original Art Direction Style Guide. The entire film was based on the look and feel of Mike Mignola’s style, and Mike was hired to actually do much of the design work himself. The Style Guide was a reference for other artists in the production to familiarize themselves with the look the producers were looking to achieve. If you look at page 28 (first image on 4th thumbnail sheet), the Guide begins to discuss what it calls the “Thunderbolt” layout. Right at the top of the examples displayed are the words “Reference: Jack Kirby art (Mignola’s main influence for this style handling).” Kirby’s influences on Mignola are obvious, though at no point does Mike ever swipe or pastiche Jack’s work. Whatever shortcomings the movie may have, it is gorgeously designed. If any of Jack’s cosmic concepts were ever to be adapted for large or small screen, animation would be the way to do it. The New Gods were used in an excellent manner on the SUPERMAN cartoon a few years ago, and personally, especially after seeing ATLANTIS, I think an ETERNALS animated feature (or series, considering the scope) could be absolutely amazing! Keith A. Bowden, Richmond, CA Just got the latest issue of TJKC and you have done it again! Dare I say it—no longer just a fanzine, TJKC has reached the point of being “literary”...! The articles were informative... thought provoking even! This

issue was more enjoyable than the FF anniversary issue. My favorite was the re-cap of “The Losers.” Food-for-thought: how about an up-to-date interview with Steve Sherman recalling that particular working experience? I wonder how Jack reacted to the letters he got: those slamming his portrayal of the characters, and those in favor of what he was doing. And how about a future interview with Ralph Macchio. I believe it was him those many years ago that wrote in the first letter to the ETERNALS questioning the magazine’s place in the “Marvel Universe.” Does he remember? Does he even care? Anyway, it was a great read! Those unpublished pages of the proposed safari strip were staggering—containing a realism that slowly disappeared from Jack’s work in the ensuing years. Gary Picariello, via e-mail (Y’know, we did an interview with Ralph Macchio for TJKC #29, but it got squeezed out for space reasons. Hopefully we’ll be able to run it in an upcoming issue devoted to more of Jack’s 1970s Marvel work.) Your magazine has been wonderful in focusing on Jack Kirby’s life and work in print, but I know there are many fans out there, myself included, who would love to see a professional DVD compilation of Jack’s LIVE interviews (including the complete Ken Viola’s COMIC BOOK MASTERS video interview of Kirby), portions of the San Diego Con tributes to Jack (if they were filmed), any footage of Jack actually drawing, or working, at the cons, and any interviews of those close to Jack and Roz, like Mark Evanier, Mike Thibodeaux, etc. I think that would be an incredible tribute to Jack, and really would be the first of its kind for any comic book artist. I really believe Jack deserves this kind of remembrance. What do you think? Curtis Wong, Van Nuys, CA (I think it’s a great idea, and Ken Viola discussed such a project a few years ago, but decided there weren’t enough potential customers to support such a project. Perhaps the number has increased as our circulation has grown, and Ken—or someone else—will consider giving it another shot.) Even though I’m against the new tabloid format, I’ve got to admit that your Cap cover for #34 was just perfect for those dimensions, and beautifully colored as well. Hopefully, you’ll do the same kind of justice to Kirby’s unused Hulk poster for Marvelmania some day. While the KIRBY COLLECTOR hasn’t suffered any great lapses in the overall quality of writing, I did begin to miss the insights of early contributors Charles Hatfield, Richard Kyle, Steranko, and Mark Evanier. Thankfully, Evanier is back and his FAQ section is a great regular lead-off feature to your ’zine. If it’s possible, could you get Mark to write about the Kirby birthday bash he hosted at San Diego in the late ’80s? I can just imagine the guest list! It was probably an incredible evening. It’s always amusing to me how we as fans continue to play casting directors for comic-based movies. In #33, a decent cast was proposed but Timm’s superb finishes on the back cover convinced me that we’re looking in the wrong direction. Why think live action at all?! The casting is bound to disappoint as many as it satisfies. Think animation. With all the fantastic effects possible now, there’s no reason the FF movie—done Kirby-style, natch—should fail. (After all, the best Batman films ever have been the animated stuff, let’s face it.) Bakshi and Frazetta’s FIRE AND ICE was somewhat of a letdown because Frank’s art transferred to ’toons left out his exquisite linework, depth, and anatomy. The King’s expressionistic cartooning is made for a dedicated team of animators who could make each and every cel look like the back cover of KIRBY COLLECTOR #33. After that, even Danny deVito could do the voice of the Thing! NAAAH! Bad casting. Jerry Boyd, Palo Alto, CA (We’re thrilled to see Charles Hatfield back again in our pages, this time to give his take on Kirby’s story “Himon,” along with Adam McGovern. We’d asked Richard Kyle to do the same (as he did with Charles and Adam for “The Glory Boat” in TJKC #24), but he respectfully declined this time out for personal reasons.) The cover of TJKC #34 was your best ever. The bright colored, clearly-inked INYAFACE depiction of Captain America virtually exploded off the cover page. It has the same magic as those mid1960s Kirby-Stone covers (see X-MEN #6 and SGT. FURY #13) that drew millions of kids’ hands irresistibly to that shining, spinning

comics rack. Although #34 couldn’t compare to TJKC #33, it had enough Silver Age art and articles to whet my appetite. What it sorely needed was an article by Mike Gartland (I was hoping for the “FTC” installment that was pushed back from #33). Speaking of “Failure to Communicate,” in an earlier TJKC letters page, the editor stated that a Gartland-authored FTC book was in the works (such a tome would make a great companion on our bookshelves next to Evanier’s forthcoming JK bio). What’s the status on this? I enjoyed Mike James’ amusing and insightful letter as much as I did the interior articles. Apparently, we both had a similar experience, right before TJKC #33 hit the stands. My subscription had expired, and money was a bit tight. I’d decided on buying TJKC on an issue-to-issue basis, possibly foregoing any issues whose themes didn’t interest me. Issue #33 changed my mind: I decided that those pesky credit card bills were just gonna have to wait, heh-heh! One thing which I disagree with James on, is Lee’s opinion that Dr. Doom’s chest buttons looked too “unfinished.” I thought Lee was 100% correct on this call (which goes to show that all art is subjective). I was pleased to see McGovern’s article on Simon. I had feared that Adam’s (regular) column, “Kirby As a Genre,” would prove too time-consuming for him to weigh in on other Kirby concerns. Finally, who originally inked the 1965 FF T-shirt illo that was shown on page 1 of TJKC #33? It doesn’t look like the style of any of the regular delineators that Marvel had back then. RETRACTION: In my SHIELD article (TJKC #34), I stated that one of Jim Steranko’s former occupations was that of a “rock musician.” In truth, Steranko was actually a noted singer, composer, and arranger in the genres of blues and jazz. As such, calling the man a rock musician was a slight: both jazz and blues require considerably more improvisational skill than “rock,” and jazz in particular requires a substantially greater knowledge of chords, scales, and complex rhythmic nuances. My apologies to the wildly eclectic Mr. S. (This info was gleaned from the book, NICK FURY, AGENT OF SHIELD.) Mark Alexander, Decatur, IL (Readers will be pleased to know that we’ve scheduled Mike Gartland’s next “Failure To Communicate” installment for next issue. Mike’s been working hard to make it the best, most insightful one yet, so be here next issue—speaking of which:) NEXT ISSUE: We’re celebrating the 40th anniversary of THOR, and to start things off, there’s two incredible color Kirby Thor covers (inked by MIKE ROYER and TREVOR VON EEDEN)! Inside, JOE SINNOTT and JOHN ROMITA JR. weigh in on their Thor work with new interviews, and we proudly present a neverpublished 1969 interview with JACK KIRBY, conducted by SHEL DORF! There’s also voluminous coverage of everyone’s favorite Thunder God, including a look at the “real” Norse gods, and an exhaustive examination of Jack and Stan’s Tales of Asgard! Usual columnists MARK EVANIER and ADAM McGOVERN are also here, plus another installment of MIKE GARTLAND’s “Failure To Communicate” series, and to celebrate Thor’s 40th birthday, we’re featuring 40 pages of Kirby Thor pencils, including an amazing Kirby Art Gallery at TABLOID SIZE, with pin-ups, covers, and more! The issue ships in August, and the submission deadline is 7/10/02.

Classifieds (10¢/word, $1 minimum) AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Original Art Wanted! Any page, any issue! Romita, Ross Andru, Frenz, Ditko, Mooney, etc. Contact: Aaron Sultan, 919-954-7111 or e-mail: spiderboop@aol.com ORIGINAL ART Marvel/DC Wanted! 1960s-80s, Spider-Man, FF, Green Lantern, Iron Man, etc. Contact: Aaron Sultan, 919-954-7111 or e-mail: spiderboop@aol.com I BUY PHOTOCOPIES of Marvel 60's and 70's original artwork, specially Kirby, Romita, Ditko, Colan and Buscema. You can also trade your photocopies for mine, all of them shot from the originals at real size and with high quality printing. If interested, write me at excelsior@wanadoo.es www.captaincorbie.com. FREE ONLINE COMICS. Amazing online comics using 1/6th scale Action Figures, featuring incredible custom dioramas and movie like special effects. Read "Captain Corbie On The Planet of The Space Vixens." A spoof of all the great classic sci-movies. For all audiences. Published monthly. Grab your mouse and visit" www.captaincorbie.com.

35 Credits:

John Morrow, Editor Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant Richard Howell, Proofreader TwoMorrows, Design/Layout Tom Ziuko, Colorist Rand Hoppe, Webmaster CONTRIBUTORS: Bob Almond • Jim Amash Terry Austin • Steve Bloom John Buscema Michael Chabon Jon B. Cooke • Adrian Day Jean Depelley • Will Eisner Mark Evanier • Juan Gonzalez Charles Hatfield Philippe Jecker David Jefferson • Richard Kyle Adam McGovern • Al Milgrom Eric Nolen-Weathington Mark Radeke • Marshall Rogers James Romberger John Romita • Mike Royer Steve Rude • Walter Simonson Joe Sinnott • Robin Snyder Flo Steinberg • Mike Thibodeaux Roy Thomas • Tom Ziuko If we’ve forgotten anyone, please let us know! SPECIAL THANKS TO: Mark Evanier • Adam McGovern Marshall Rogers • Steve Rude Mike Thibodeaux and of course The Kirby Estate MAILING CREW: Russ Garwood • Glen Musial Ed Stelli • Patrick Varker Loston & Carolyn Wallace

Contribute & Get Free Issues! The Jack Kirby Collector is a not-for-profit publication, put together with submissions from Jack’s fans around the world. We don’t pay for submissions, but if we print art or articles you submit, we’ll send you a free copy of that issue or extend your subscription by one issue. Here’s a tentative list of upcoming themes, to give you ideas of things to write about; but don’t limit yourself to these—we treat these themes very loosely, so anything you write may fit somewhere; and just because we covered a topic once, don’t think we won’t print more about it. So get creative, and get writing; and as always, send us copies of your Kirby art! THOR’S 40TH ANNIVERSARY! Asgardians assemble—it’s party time! Coming your way in August! HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY! Focusing on Kirby’s storytelling and art techniques! LEGENDS! Exploring Jack’s use of myths and legendary figures in his comics! FAN FAVORITES! What are your favorite Kirby stories? Plus: Kamandi! The Hulk! SUBMISSION GUIDELINES: Submit artwork as: 1) Color or B&W photocopies. 2) 300ppi TIFF or JPEG scans 3) Originals (packed and insured). Submit articles as: 1) Typed or laser printed pages. 2) E-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com 3) ASCII or RTF text files. We’ll pay return postage and insurance for originals—please write or call first. Please include background information whenever possible.

Parting Shot

Kirby’s final Mister Miracle page (from #18), still in pencil form. Other than some statues, and the flashback scenes in issue #9’s “Himon” story, this was Darkseid’s only actual appearance in Mister Miracle—on the last page of the final issue of the series.

TWOMORROWS’ NEW MAGAZINE DEBUTS IN JULY!

AND DON’T FORGET THESE FAN FAVORITES, NOW SHIPPING FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING!

FIRST ISSUE!!

THE NEW MAGAZINE FOR WRITERS OF COMICS, ANIMATION & SCIENCE-FICTION! Ever wonder what it takes to be a comics writer? After all, an artist can show an editor his work and the editor can evaluate it virtually on the spot. But what qualities are necessary to sell writing? What are editors looking for? What skills are needed, and what other media can these skills be used in? TwoMorrows Publishing (publisher of the highlyacclaimed DRAW! magazine) is proud to present WRITE NOW!, a new magazine edited by veteran Marvel Comics editor and writer DANNY FINGEROTH! It takes you behind the scenes, into both the creative and business processes that go into writing narrative fiction. Hear from pros ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DESK what it takes to write the stories that readers—and editors—want to read!

In this premiere issue, top professional writers discuss the practical aspects of their craft. You'll get tips and insights from interviews with:

And an interview with STAN (THE MAN) LEE! ('Nuff said.)

• BRAIN MICHAEL BENDIS, the writer of Ultimate Spider-Man, Alias, Powers and so many more.

Cover penciled and inked by MARK BAGLEY, featuring those two zany comics creators WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE and LEONARDO DaVINCI as they collaborate on the first issue of MONA, WARRIOR PRINCESS!

• JOE QUESADA, editor in chief of Marvel Comics, and co-writer of Ash and writer of Iron Man. He's the guy setting the writing standards at the House of Ideas today. • JOSS WHEDON, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the comic Fray, and the upcoming Firefly TV series. • J.M. DeMATTEIS writer of Spider-Man, the Spectre, Man-Thing and Moonshadow. • MARK BAGLEY, penciler of Ultimate Spider-Man, New Warriors and Amazing Spider-Man. Find out what one of the field's top artists likes—and doesn't like—in scripts he draws from.

WRITE NOW! You've never read anything like it before. (And it's chock full o' purty pictures, too.) (Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH • 80 pages) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail).

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom.

TwoMorrows Publishing • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 USA • 919-833-8092 • FAX: 919-833-8023 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

COMIC BOOK ARTIST #18: COSMIC COMICS OF THE 1970s!

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #34: FIGHTING AMERICANS!

ALTER EGO #15: JOHN BUSCEMA REMEMBERED!

An in-depth look at the ’70s cosmic Marvel Comics:

Featuring pages of KIRBY’s UNINKED PENCILS (of Cap and others) shown at our new TABLOID SIZE, plus:

• Two color BUSCEMA COVERS, plus plenty of rare and unseen BUSCEMA ART! • ROY THOMAS on his 35-year collaboration with John! • JOHN BUSCEMA INTERVIEWED at the 2001 San Diego Con, by MARK EVANIER! • SAL BUSCEMA talks about his big brother! • STAN GOLDBERG on his friendship with Big John! • BUSCEMA TRIBUTES by top comics pros! • PLUS: KURT SCHAFFENBERGER TRIBUTE, WALLY WOOD’s final work examined by MR. MONSTER, FCA with C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE, and more!!

• NEW COVER by and INTERVIEW with JIM STARLIN! • Interviews with and art by ALAN WEISS, STEVE ENGLEHART, AL MILGROM, FRANK BRUNNER, and STEVE LEIALOHA! • Unseen art from the never-published WARLOCK #16! • Plus a 1960s BULLPEN REUNION featuring STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARIE SEVERIN, JOHN ROMITA, ROY THOMAS, HERB TRIMPE, LINDA FITE, and BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH!

• KIRBY COVERS inked by the King himself and the incomparable ALEX TOTH! • Kirby interview, and new interviews with JOE SIMON and CARMINE INFANTINO! • Never-before-seen unused 1950s KIRBY CONCEPTS! • NEW REGULAR COLUMN by MARK EVANIER! • Plus features on Kirby’s toughest characters, including THE LOSERS, GREEN ARROW, NICK FURY & more!

(Edited by JON B. COOKE • 116 pages) Six-issue subscriptions: $36 Standard, $54 First Class (Canada: $66, Elsewhere: $72 Surface, $96 Airmail).

(Edited by JOHN MORROW • 84 tabloid pages) Four-issue subscriptions: $36 Standard, $52 First Class (Canada: $60, Elsewhere: $64 Surface, $80 Airmail).

COMICOLOGY #4 (FINAL ISSUE) THE “ALL-BRIAN” ISSUE!

XAL-KOR THE HUMAN CAT

DRAW! #3: THE HOW-TO MAG ON COMICS & CARTOONING!

The final issue is a 116-page giant featuring: • BRIAN BOLLAND (Judge Dredd, Batman: The Killing Joke, Heart Throbs) sketchbook & interview! • BRIAN AZZARELLO (100 Bullets, Hellblazer) interview! • BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS (Jinx, Ultimate Spider-Man, Fortune and Glory) interview! • BRIAN CLOPPER (Rampage, Brainbomb) interview!

GRASS GREEN’S classic character returns, awakened from suspended animation to find arch-enemy QUEEN RODA and her rat legions on the brink of conquering Earth. Is there time for even Xal-Kor—the intrepid soldier from the cat-planet Felis—to stop Roda from turning Earth into a slave planet? This new comic story features:

• Cover and a new column on the design of comics by Mr. X’s PAUL RIVOCHE! • Inking demonstration and tips by legendary artist DICK GIORDANO! • BRET BLEVINS shows how to draw figures in action! • Web comics how-to by MIKE MANLEY! • Interview with Disney’s CHRIS BAILEY, reviews of the best art supplies, links and more!

(Edited by BRIAN SANER LAMKEN • 100 pages) Back issues: $8 In The US (Canada: $10, Elsewhere: $11 Surface, $15 Airmail).

FANDOM’S FAVORITE HERO IS BACK!

• Inks by ANGEL GABRIELE & RON FONTES! • Introductory remarks by ROY THOMAS & JEFF GELB! • Background on the Xal-Kor series by editor BILL SCHELLY to get new readers “up to speed”! 100-page Graphic Novella, $14 in the US (Canada: $16, Elsewhere: $17 Surface, $21 Airmail).

(Edited by ROY THOMAS • 108 pages) Eight-issue subscriptions: $40 Standard, $64 First Class (Canada: $80, Elsewhere: $88 Surface, $120 Airmail).

(Edited by MIKE MANLEY • 80 pages w/color section) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail).