Jack Kirby Collector #38 by TwoMorrows Publishing

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR THIRTY-EIGHT

IN THE US

$995

NOW SHIPPING FROM TWOMORROWS! SUBSCRIBE TODAY! Number 11a, April-May 2003 • Hype and hullabaloo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom • Edited by Eric Nolen-Weathington

Coming Soon! Alter Ego #26 (July) Comic Book Artist #24 (Now!) CBA #25 (May, final issue) DRAW! #6 (May) Jack Kirby Collector #38 (Now!) Write Now! #4 (Now!) Captain Victory: Graphite (June) Modern Masters V1: Alan Davis (Now!) Beck & Schaffenberger: Sons of Thunder (June) Wertham Was Right! (June) Life & Art of Murphy Anderson (June) The Extraordinary Works of Alan Moore (July) Against The Grain: MAD Artist Wally Wood (September) Wally Wood Checklist (September)

CONTACTS:

John Morrow, publisher, JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR editor, and for subscriptions): twomorrow@aol.com Mike Manley, DRAW! editor: mike@actionplanet.com Roy Thomas, ALTER EGO editor: roydann@ntinet.com P.C. Hamerlinck, FCA editor: fca2001@yahoo.com Danny Fingeroth, WRITE NOW! editor: WriteNowDF@aol.com Jon B. Cooke, COMIC BOOK ARTIST editor: jonbcooke@aol.com Read excerpts from back issues and order from our secure online store at: www.twomorrows.com To get periodic e-mail updates of what’s new from TwoMorrows Publishing, sign up for our mailing list! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ twomorrows

New Books Coming On Anderson, Evanier, Wood, & Moore! THE LIFE AND ART OF MURPHY ANDERSON Comics historian R.C. HARVEY has compiled a lavishly illustrated autobiographical memoir of the man whose style defined the DC look for a generation of fans! It covers his career from the mid-1940s to his glory days at DC Comics on SUPERMAN, HAWKMAN, ADAM STRANGE, SPECTRE, THE ATOMIC KNIGHTS and beyond! There’s coverage of his syndicated comic strip work (BUCK ROGERS) and educational comics (PS MAGAZINE), plus his recollections and stories about LOU FINE, WILL EISNER, CURT SWAN, GIL KANE, and others he worked with—and rare art from every phase of his career! 160-Page trade paperback, $22 postpaid in the US. SHIPS IN JUNE!

AGAINST THE GRAIN: MAD ARTIST WALLACE WOOD and the WALLY WOOD CHECKLIST The definitive book on one of comics' finest artists! Twenty years in the making, this biographical memoir of life at the Wood Studio by former associate BHOB STEWART traces Wood's life and career, and features many artists and writers who knew Wood personally, contributing articles and essays to make it a remarkable compendium of art, insights and critical commentary! From childhood drawings and early samples to nearly endless comics pages (many unpublished), this is the most stunning display of Wood art ever assembled! BILL PEARSON, executor of the Wood Estate, has contributed rare drawings directly from Wood's own files, while noted art collector ROGER HILL provides a wealth of obscure, previously unpublished Wood drawings and paintings. It’s a colossal 336-PAGE TRADE PAPERBACK with color section, and a LIMITED EDITION HARDCOVER (with 16 extra full-color pages, plus bonus B&W plates)! Softcover is $44 postpaid in the US, or $64 postpaid for the hardcover. We’re also releasing a separate 64-page WALLY WOOD CHECKLIST ($7 postpaid in the US), detailing Wood’s published work! SPECIAL BONUS: Preorder either version of AGAINST THE GRAIN by August 1 directly from TwoMorrows, and GET THE CHECKLIST ABSOLUTELY FREE! Both SHIP IN SEPTEMBER!

WERTHAM WAS RIGHT! Writer-historian MARK EVANIER is back with a second collection of POV COLUMNS, including many never-beforepublished on comic book history, creation and appreciation! Included in this volume are his definitive history of the FOX AND CROW comic book, tributes to artists COMIC BOOKEEARTIST #24: BOB KANE and GIL NDED FOR FR is NOT INTE KANE, Mark’s diatribe THE or you paidOF NATIONAL ERIAL, which criber,COMICS bs su int pr on comic book number- COPYRIGHTED MAT a sincere RE. If you’re his is ve ourLAMPOON! ing, and many more, NG ANYWHE website, you ha e this one. DOWNLOADI arge to download it at our lik nsCOVERS • NEW by GAHAN, WILSON & MARK BODÉ! tio capped off by an essay ca bli pu ch oducing torrentWILSON orGAHAN modest fee we • Interviews with and NatLamp art the vilon comics’ greatest s us to keep pr m some othe r website support allow fro ur NSENT, e yo CO fre — r R ks fo director MICHAEL GROSS! an it OU lain, DR. FREDRIC th UT wnloaded NE WITHO L.theIf mag's top contributors: IA DO ad you do ER 0% • Interviews with and art by AT If inste 10 M WERTHAM! This collection is profusely illustrated by award-winning GHTED s absolutely that it wa OUR COPYRI NEAL ADAMS, FRANK SPRINGER, SEAN KELLY, MAD cartoonistple (and collaborator of 20 years onIN GROO THE e know G OF asMark’s POST LEGALa new ILincluding SHARY FLENNEKIN, ED SUBITSKY, M.K. BROWN, : an s do WANDERER) SERGIO ARAGONÉS, cover! 200ld wa it ou d sh an at you whSHIPS . B.K. TAYLOR, MICHEL CHOu thinkLONDON, page trade paperback, in re the’sUS. IN JUNE! case, he at yoBOBBY thepostpaid e wh that’s$17 and se E, SU IS QUETTE, ALAN KUPPERBERG, L rchase a and many more! d pu G an IS DIGITA

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BACK ISSUE, the newest TwoMorrows mag, now debuts in October T H E U LT I M AT E C O M I C S E X P E R I E N C E ! (taking CBA's spot on our schedule)! It’ll be bi-monthly, edited by MICHAEL EURY (former editor and writer for DC and Dark Horse Comics, and author of our acclaimed CAPTAIN ACTION book, as well as our upcoming biography of DICK GIORDANO), and focuses on comics of the 1970s and ’80s in a way you’ve NEVER SEEN BEFORE! TM Stay tuned for more details on THE ULTIMATE COMICS EXPERIENCE! NOTE: All prices Include US Postage. Outside the US, Add $2 Per Item Canada, $3 Per Item Surface, $7 Per Item Airmail.

NEXT ISSUE: Kirby Fan Favorites!

All characters TM & © their respective holders.

Kirby In Graphite! CAPTAIN VICTORY: GRAPHITE EDITION presents Jack Kirby’s original 1975 Captain Victory graphic novel (before it was broken up for the Pacific Comics series), reproduced for the first time from Jack’s uninked pencils! NOT SOLD IN STORES! All proceeds from this 52-page book go to scanning and preserving the 4000+ page Kirby pencil xerox archives! $8 postpaid in the US. SHIPS IN JUNE! AVAILABLE BY MAIL ONLY!

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #37: HOW TO DRAW KIRBY-STYLE!

ALTER EGO #25: JACK COLE & PLASTIC MAN!

• Two NEVER-PUBLISHED COLOR KIRBY COVERS! • MIKE ROYER interview on how he inked Jack’s work! • HUGE GALLERY tracing the evolution of Jack’s style! • New column on OBSCURE KIRBY WORK! • Columnists MARK EVANIER & ADAM McGOVERN! • Special sections on Jack’s TECHNIQUE AND INFLUENCES! • Comparing STAN LEE’S WRITING TO JACK’S, & much more, including rare and unpublished art!

• JACK COLE remembered by ALEX TOTH, his brother DICK COLE and his colleagues at PLAYBOY! • CHRIS CLAREMONT on the X-MEN (Part 2), featuring still more never-seen art by DAVE COCKRUM! • ROY THOMAS on All-Star Squadron #1 with art by ORDWAY, BUCKLER, MOLDOFF, MESKIN, and more! • FCA with C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, & CHAD GROTHKOPF—MICHAEL T. GILBERT—BILL SCHELLY—special surprise features—& MORE!!

(Edited by JOHN MORROW • 84 tabloid pages) Four-issue subscriptions: $36 Standard, $52 First Class (Canada: $60, Elsewhere: $64 Surface, $80 Airmail).

(Edited by ROY THOMAS • 108 pages) Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 Standard, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewhere: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). FOR SIX-ISSUE SUBS, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

MODERN MASTERS VOL. ONE: ALAN DAVIS

DRAW! #5: THE HOW-TO MAG ON COMICS & CARTOONING!

First volume in a NEW BOOK SERIES devoted to the BEST OF TODAY'S COMICS ARTISTS looks at the work of a true modern master: ALAN DAVIS!

• Interview and sketchbook by MIKE WIERINGO! • BRIAN BENDIS AND MIKE OEMING show how they create the series POWERS! • BRET BLEVINS shows how to draw great hands! • The illusion of depth in design, by PAUL RIVOCHE! • Must-have art books reviewed by TERRY BEATTY! • Plus reviews of the best art supplies, links and more!

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WRITE NOW! #4: THE NEW MAG FOR WRITERS OF COMICS, ANIMATION, & SCI-FI Get practical advice and tips on writing from top pros on both sides of the desk, including: • HOWARD CHAYKIN on writing for comics & TV! • PAUL DINI on animated writing! • DENNY O'NEIL offers more tips for comics writers! • KURT BUSIEK shows how he scripts! • PLUS: FABIAN NICIEZA, DeFALCO & FRENZ, & more! (Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH • 84 pages) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail).

• ALAN DAVIS’ most IN-DEPTH INTERVIEW TO DATE, including INFLUENCES, and his VIEWS ON GRAPHIC STORYTELLING! • DELUXE SKETCHBOOK SECTION, and huge gallery of rare and UNSEEN DAVIS ART! • Interviews with collaborators PAUL NEARY and MARK FARMER! (128-Page Trade Paperback) $17 US (Canada: $19, Elsewhere: $20 Surface, $24 Airmail).

(Edited by MIKE MANLEY • 88 pages w/color section) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail). NOTE: Contains nudity for purposes of figure drawing. Intended for Mature Readers.

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows Publishing • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 USA • 919-833-8092 • FAX: 919-833-8023 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

Jack Kirby

(right) Burne Hogarth’s classic Dynamic Figure Drawing was a revelation to me as a budding teenage artist, but deep down I always wondered what a “how-to” book by Kirby would be like. Jack never produced such a book, and if he had, it’s a safe bet nobody would’ve bought it for the words anyway. So here’s my take on what the cover might’ve looked like.

DYNAMIC FIGURE DRAWING

C O P Y R I G H T S : Atlas, Big Barda, Boy Commandos, Challengers of the Unknown, Darkseid, Demon, Dingbats of Danger Street, Dr. Fate, Forager, Forever People, Green Lantern, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Lightray, Losers, Mr. Miracle, Negative Man, New Gods, Newsboy Legion, OMAC, Orion, Promethea, Pyra, Spectre, Superman, Toxl the World Killer, Wonder Woman, Young Romance TM & ©2003 DC Comics • Black Bolt, Black Panther, Bucky, Capt. America, Crystal, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Dragon Man, Enchantress, Fantastic Four, Galactus, Gorgon, Hercules, Hulk, Human Torch, Infant Terrible, Inhumans, Invisible Girl, Iron Man, Karnak, Liberty Legion, Magneto, Makarri, Medusa, Melter, Modok, Mr. Fantastic, Nick Fury, Rawhide Kid, Red Skull, Sgt. Fury, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Sub-Mariner, Super Skrull, Thing, Thor, Triton, Two-Gun Kid, Warlock TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc. • Enchantra, Silver Star, The Family, Capt. Glory, Capt. Victory, Satan's Six, Inky, Galaxy Green TM & ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate • Boys' Ranch, Police Trap TM & ©2003 Simon & Kirby • Thundarr TM & ©2003 Ruby-Spears Productions, Inc. • The Fly TM & ©2003 Archie Publications, Inc.

Spotlighting the artist of THE FOURTH WORLD TRILOGY and THE MARVEL UNIVERSE 84 pages of text & drawings A new approach to drawing the moving figure in deep space and foreshortening

Contents OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 (be guest editor, and preserve the archives)

NEW COLUMN! KIRBY OBSCURA . . . .44 (Barry Forshaw on more obscure Kirby)

COLLECTOR COMMENTS . . . . . . . . . . .78 (letters on #35 which escaped us)

UNDER THE COVERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 (a quick look this time)

INNERVIEW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .45 (spend an afternoon as Jack tells stories)

PARTING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 (don’t peek, now; we’d rather you wonder!)

THINKIN’ ’BOUT INKIN’ . . . . . . . . . . . . .6 (Joe Sinnott tells all)

TECHNIQUE SECTION: SQUIGGLES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .62 KIRBIFYING YOUR ART . . . . . . . . . . . . .64 KIRBYTECH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .65 KRACKLE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .66 SWIPES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .68 BURSTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70 EVOLUTION OF THE TORCH & THING . . .72 BUTTONS OF DOOM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .75

Front cover inks: DON HECK Front cover colors: JACK KIRBY Back cover inks/colors: JACK KIRBY

JACK F.A.Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22 (Mark Evanier on Kirby misconceptions) KIRBY AS A GENRE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30 (Adam McGovern goes far afield) GALLERY (GREATEST HITS) . . . . . . . . .32

Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support.

The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 10, No. 38, Spring 2003. Published quarterly by & ©2003 TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant. Single issues: $13 postpaid ($15 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $36.00 US, $60.00 Canada, $64.00 elsewhere. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is ©2003 Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is ©2003 the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

Opening Shot (right) Captain Victory: Graphite Edition is now on sale, only by mail from TwoMorrows. $8 postpaid US ($10 Canada, $11 Surface, $15 Airmail, but foreign orders get a FREE Kirby Checklist).

by John Morrow, editor of TJKC

’m very grateful for the opportunities I get by producing this magazine: To be exposed to so much Kirby art, as well as to so many of his gracious fans. If you enjoy this magazine (and I hope you do), you should thank your lucky stars that Jack and Roz thought enough of the King’s work to photocopy his pencils before sending them off to be inked. But one of the toughest parts of TJKC since its inception has been getting access to those very pages.

JPEG files and backing them up to CDs/DVDs. Since 1998, we’ve scanned about 1000 of the pages from the batch the Kirbys loaned us (with all the work being done by our paid employees, on company time whenever there’s a free moment). With 3000-4000 to go, it’s a task that’ll require huge amounts of man-hours, hard disk space, and wear-&-tear on our 12" x 17" scanner, and the clock is ticking as the pages keep fading over time (and I don’t think we have the 15-20 years left that it’d take at our current rate of scanning!). We need to be able to pay someone to devote their time to scanning this enormous batch of xeroxes. So, I had this idea. Readers have been clamoring for us to print complete

Thank Your Lucky Stars! (next page) Current list of what’s in the Kirby Pencil Xerox Archives. Note: the page numbering is based on story page (which is the number Jack put on his actual pencils), not necessarily the printed page number (which, as in the case of 1970s Marvel comics, was different due to their including the ad pages in their numbering). Also, unless noted otherwise, these are pencil pages only. There are lots of animation pages in the files, too numerous to list here. In the case of unpublished work (ie. Dingbats #2 and #3) I included a listing of the inked pages we have also.

I depleted my personal supply of Kirby art with TJKC #1. Once word of mouth started, though, Kirby fans all over began sending in convention sketches, fanzine repros, and various other interesting art tidbits; but this magazine probably wouldn’t have lasted more than a half-dozen issues if not for the intervention of David “Hambone” Hamilton. Ol’ Hammie has made a near-career out of trading pencil photocopies with dozens of top comics artists and their biggest fans. He not only clued me in to the fact that Kirby pencil copies existed (albeit in pretty poor quality, due to their being second-or-more-generation duplicates), he told me there was a sort of “pencil art underground” of fans who traded this type of stuff. Hambone had hundreds of pages, and generously sent me copies of them, which really got the ball rolling on TJKC. During one of our first phone conversations, Roz Kirby suggested I contact Greg Theakston about supplying art for the ’zine, which I promptly did. Greg had possession of around 3000 of Jack’s original xeroxes, and when I contacted him, he said to let him know what I needed, and he’d send it. This sounded great, but there wasn’t any kind of list of what actual pages Greg had, so I was shooting in the dark about what to ask for. What Greg did send, however, was of amazing quality; much better than the second- or more generation copies I had access to. So I was left with a dilemma: get good copies from Greg each issue (but never know if I’d get what I’d requested), or proceed with Hambone’s lesser-quality copies, where I’d at least have my pick of art to decide what to build an issue around. I ended up using a combination of both, along with whatever fans sent in. Around TJKC #19 (right after Roz’s death), the Kirbys made things a lot easier for us. With the help of Mike Thibodeaux, they dug out the remaining 2000 or so photocopies they still had in storage, and loaned them to me for use in this magazine. It was mostly 1970s Marvel work, with much less DC and 1960s stuff included, but it sure made it a lot easier to put this mag together, having a lot to pick from, and all of good quality. I’m happy to report that things have just gotten easier still. Greg is in the process of sending the original xeroxes to us (he’s sent around 2500 since the first of this year), so for the first time in years, nearly all the xeroxes are in one place. (While I’m on the subject of Greg, let me mention his outstanding Complete Kirby series. This project deserves every Kirby fan’s support, and I wholeheartedly recommend it. If you’re not familiar with Greg’s series reprinting Jack’s earliest work, you can order in the US by sending $25 to: Pure Imagination, 516 State St., Brooklyn, NY 11215. The first four volumes are currently available). All this leads to our new, wonderful dilemma: How to preserve and archive 4000-5000 “thermal fax” copies of Jack’s pencils before they fade away to nothing. My goal is to create a permanent digital archive by scanning them as high-resolution

stories in pencil for years, but copyright issues keep that from happening. However, Jack’s original Captain Victory graphic novel exists nearly complete in pencil form (it was drawn a few years before it was used in Pacific Comics’ Captain Victory #1-3, so it’s Prime Kirby pencils), and he owned the character. So as I write this, we’re releasing the 52-page Captain Victory: Graphite Edition, a pencils-only reprinting of the original graphic novel. It’s being produced with the approval of the Kirby family, and proceeds will offset the cost of scanning and archiving the pencil xeroxes. It’ll only be available by mail to maximize proceeds (we have to give retailers huge discounts, which would keep such a niche product from serving its purpose—to generate income to support the archiving of the xeroxes). So order a copy (or two) now from TwoMorrows; you’ll be doing your part to make sure this incredible material is around for future generations to enjoy, appreciate, and learn from. It’s $8 postpaid in the US. (Sorry, if you’re outside the US, you must add $2 for Canada, or elsewhere $3 Surface or $7 Airmail—but we’ll include a FREE COPY of the Kirby Checklist for the extra cost). Once the 4000+ pages are digitally archived for future use, the Kirbys are planning to donate sets of the disks to both Duke University’s and the University of Michigan’s special library collections, so the general public will have access to this wealth of material for scholarly research. Then the Kirbys will decide what happens to the original photocopies (we’ll be returning them since they’re only on-loan to us). Now, for the best part. Since we’ve got access to the bulk of the xeroxes for the first time, I’ve compiled a master list of what’s here (see next 3 pages). This probably isn’t everything that exists, however. From time to time, Jack and Roz gave away sets of the pencil copies when they sold the original art to a given issue, so those may be in private collectors’ hands. And all those collectors who swapped pages as part of the “pencil underground” may have some that aren’t listed here. So show your appreciation for the King’s work, and help us make this digital archive as complete as possible. If you’ve got any Kirby pencil pages or photocopies, please compare your collection to this list, and send us copies or scans of anything not listed here. I plan to post an updated list on our website (www.twomorrows.com) at the end of this year so we’ll all know what exists. And brace yourself; with all this new art in-house, TJKC is about to get even better! I’ve got big plans for upcoming issues, that I’m sure will make you—and me—even more thankful that these xeroxes exist. ★

BOOK 2001 Treasury Edition 2001: A Space Odyssey #1 2001: A Space Odyssey #2 2001: A Space Odyssey #3 2001: A Space Odyssey #4 2001: A Space Odyssey #6 2001: A Space Odyssey #8 2001: A Space Odyssey #9 2001: A Space Odyssey #10 Action Comics #638 Amazing Heroes #47 Atlas #1 (First Issue Special #1) Avengers #148 Avengers #151 Avengers #152 Avengers #153 Avengers #154 Avengers #156 Avengers #157 Avengers #158 Battle for a 3-D World #1 Black Panther #3 Black Panther #4 Black Panther #5 Black Panther #6 Black Panther #7 Black Panther #8 Black Panther #9 Black Panther #10 Black Panther #11 Black Panther #12 Blue Ribbon Comics #5 Captain America #103 Captain America #193 Captain America #194 Captain America #195 Captain America #196 Captain America #197 Captain America #198 Captain America #199 Captain America #200 Captain America #201 Captain America #202 Captain America #203 Captain America #204 Captain America #205 Captain America #206 Captain America #207 Captain America #208 Captain America #209 Captain America #211 Captain America #212 Captain America #213 Captain America #214 Captain America Annual #3 Captain America Annual #4 CA's Bicentennial Battles Treasury Captain Victory #1 Captain Victory #2 Captain Victory #3 Captain Victory #4 Captain Victory #7 Captain Victory #8 Captain Victory #9 Captain Victory #11 Captain Victory #12 Captain Victory #13 Captain Victory Special #1 Champions #6 DC Comics Presents #84 Defenders #42 Defenders #44 Defenders #45 Demon #1 Demon #2 Demon #3 Demon #5 Demon #6 Demon #7 Demon #8 Demon #9 Demon #10 Demon #11 Demon #12

ORIGINAL XEROX PAGES WE HAVE ifc, 1-70 c, 1, 2, 4-17 c, 1, 4-8, 10-17 1, 4-6, 8-10, 12-17 c, 1, 4-8, 13-17 c, 1-4, 6-17 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1, 3-17 cover cover 1, 4-20, 2 concept pages, 1 unused page cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover inside cover, 2-page spread c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 3-14 c, 1, 4-17 c, 1-14, 16, 17 c, 1-17 c, 1-3, 5-17 c, 1-17 cover 9-13 c, 1-18 c, 1, 4-18, unused page 1, 4-17 c, 1 c, 1-17 c, 1-17, unused page c, 1-17 c, 1-6, 8-17 c, 1-12, 14-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17, unused page c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 1, 4-17 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1, 4-17 c, 1-35 c, 1, 4-24, 26, 28-30, 32-34 c, bc, 1-77, 80, 81, unused page 1-6, 9-13, 15-18, 20-23 2-25 1-7, 14, 15, 18-25, 27 4-10, 12-14 7, 14 2-6 6, 7, 12, 13, 28, 29 6 4, 5, 10 5-8, 12-14 31 cover 11, 17 cover cover cover 1, 4-25, unused page, 2 unused half pages c, 1, 4, 5, 7-23, unused page c, 1-13, 15-22 1-23 c, 1, 4-23 1, 4-23 c, 1, 4-17, 23 1, 5-23 c, 1, 4-14, 16-20, unused page c, 1, 4-20 1, 4-11, 13-20

Demon #13 Demon #14 Demon #15 Demon #16 Destroyer Duck #1 Destroyer Duck #2 Destroyer Duck #3 Destroyer Duck #4 Destroyer Duck #5 Devil Dinosaur misc. Devil Dinosaur #2 Devil Dinosaur #3 Devil Dinosaur #4 Devil Dinosaur #5 Devil Dinosaur #6 Devil Dinosaur #7 Devil Dinosaur #8 Devil Dinosaur #9 Dingbats #1 (First Issue Special #6) Dingbats of Danger Street #2 Dingbats of Danger Street #3 Eternals #2 Eternals #3 Eternals #4 Eternals #5 Eternals #6 Eternals #7 Eternals #8 Eternals #9 Eternals #10 Eternals #11 Eternals #12 Eternals #14 Eternals #15 Eternals #16 Eternals #17 Eternals #18 Eternals #19 Eternals Annual #1 Fantastic Four #44 Fantastic Four #49 Fantastic Four #75 Fantastic Four #76 Fantastic Four #78 Fantastic Four #80 Fantastic Four #89 Fantastic Four #90 Fantastic Four #91 Fantastic Four #95 Fantastic Four #97 Fantastic Four #108 Fantastic Four #164 Fantastic Four #172 Fantastic Four #173 Fantastic Four #174 Fantastic Four #175 Fantastic Four #176 Fantastic Four #177 Fantastic Four #181 Fantastic Four #181 Fantastic Four #190 Fantastic Four Annual #5 Fantastic Four Annual #11 Forever People #1 Forever People #6 Forever People #7 Forever People #8 Forever People #9 Forever People #10 Forever People #11 Ghost Rider #22 Ghost Rider #23 Giant-Size Conan #5 Hulk Annual #5 In The Days Of The Mob #2 Invaders #4 Invaders #5 Invaders #8 Invaders #9 Invaders #12 Invaders #14 Invaders #15 Invaders #16 Invaders #32 Iron Man #90

c, 1, 4-20 cover c, 1-20 c, 1-20 1-20 c, 1-20, 2 unused pages c, 4-7, 10-12, 14-16 1, 4-11, 14, 15-20 c, 1-5, unused page Proposal 1, 2 c, 1, 4-17 c, 1, 4-6, 8-17 c, 1-3, 5-17 c, 1, 4-17 c, 1, 4-17 c, 1-17, unused page c (1/2), 1-7, 9-10, 13-17 c, 1-4, 7-12, 14-17 c, 1, 4-14, 18-20 (pencils), 1-20 (inks) 20 (pencils), 1-11, 13-20 (inks) 1, 4-20 (pencils), 1-20 (inks) c, 1-17, unused cover c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c (2 ways), 1-17 unused cover c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1, 4-6, 8-17 c, 1-17 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-17 1, 4-17 c, 1-17 c, 1-33 19, 20 1-11, 19 2, 3, 6, 8 2-5 1-3 unused page 2-6, 10-20 10-12, 14-17, 19, 20 1, 2, 5, 6, 10-20 6, 15 6-7 unused pages cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover 4, 5, 8, 11-17, 20, Black Bolt, Crystal, Gorgon, Karnak cover cover 1-11, 13-17, 20-22, back-up 1-4 c, 1, 4-12, 15-23 1-23, 25, 26 1-25 c, 2-4, 6-10, 21 c, 1, 4-21 cover cover cover cover c, 1-3, 11 (pencil), 1-14, 19, 29-46 (all ink) cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover cover 3

Iron Man #92 cover Iron Man #95 cover Journey Into Mystery #101 1-13 Journey Into Mystery #119 Tales of Asgard 4 Jungle Action #18 cover c, 1-18 Justice Inc. #2 Justice Inc. #3 c, 1-18 Justice Inc. #4 1-10, 12-18 Ka-Zar #12 cover Kamandi #1 1, 4-23 Kamandi #2 4-22 Kamandi #3 1, 4 Kamandi #4 c, 17-22 Kamandi #5 1, 4-9, 11-23 c, 1, 6, 7, 9-11, 13-23 Kamandi #6 Kamandi #7 1, 2 (partial), 4-20 Kamandi #8 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #9 c, 4-20 Kamandi #10 c, 1, 4, 6-15, 18-20 Kamandi #11 1, 4-15, 17-20 Kamandi #12 c, 1-20 Kamandi #13 c, 1-20 Kamandi #14 c, 1, 4-10, 12-20 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #15 Kamandi #16 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #17 12-20 Kamandi #18 1, 20 Kamandi #19 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #20 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #21 c, 1-8, 10-14, 16-20 Kamandi #22 c, 1-4, 6-20 Kamandi #23 c, 1, 4-15, 17, 19, 20 c, 1, 4-9, 11, 13-16, 18-20 Kamandi #24 Kamandi #25 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #26 c, 1, 4-10, 13-20 Kamandi #27 1, 5-9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17, 20 Kamandi #28 c, 1, 4-20 Kamandi #29 c, 4-20 Kamandi #30 c, 1, 4-17 Kamandi #31 c, 1, 4-18 Kamandi #32 2, 24, 25 Kamandi #33 c, 1-18 Kamandi #35 1, 4-18 Kamandi #37 1-18 Kamandi #38 8, 10-13 Kamandi #39 1-18 Kamandi #40 1, 4-18 Kamandi misc. 2 unused covers Kobra #1 unused Kung-Fu Fighter #3 1-6, 8, 9, 16-18 Machine Man #2 c, 1-17 Machine Man #3 c, 1, 4-17 Machine Man #4 c, 1-17 Machine Man #5 c, 1, 4-17 Machine Man #6 c, 1-17 Machine Man #7 c, 2-17 Machine Man #8 c, 1-17 Machine Man #9 c, 1-17 Manhunter #1 (First Issue Special #5) 1, 4-11, 13-18 Marvel Chillers #7 cover Marvel Double Feature #13 cover Marvel Double Feature #18 cover Marvel Premiere #29 cover Marvel Premiere #31 cover Marvel Premiere #35 cover Marvel Premiere #40 cover Marvel Spotlight #29 cover Marvel Super-Heroes #54 cover Marvel Treasury Edition #7 cover, back cover Marvel Treasury Edition #11 cover, back cover Marvel Triple Action #24 cover Marvel Two-In-One #12 cover Marvel Two-In-One #19 cover Marvel Two-In-One #20 cover Marvel Two-In-One #25 cover Marvel Two-In-One #27 cover Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1 cover Marvel's Greatest Comics #77 cover Mister Miracle #5 c, 1-26 Mister Miracle #6 c, 1-26 Mister Miracle #7 c, 1, 4-26 Mister Miracle #8 c, 1, 4-8, 11, 12, 14-26 Mister Miracle #9 c, 4-15, 17-20, 23-26 Mister Miracle #10 unused cover, 1-22 Mister Miracle #11 1, 4-22 4

Mister Miracle #12 Mister Miracle #13 Mister Miracle #14 Mister Miracle #15 Mister Miracle #16 Mister Miracle #17 Mister Miracle #18 New Gods #6 New Gods #8 New Gods #9 New Gods #10 New Gods #12 (Hunger Dogs GN) New Gods Reprint #2 New Gods Reprint #4 New Gods Reprint #5 New Gods Reprint #6 (new story) Nova #5 Nova #7 OMAC #1 OMAC #2 OMAC #3 OMAC #4 OMAC #5 OMAC #6 OMAC #7 Our Fighting Forces #151 Our Fighting Forces #152 Our Fighting Forces #153 Our Fighting Forces #154 Our Fighting Forces #155 Our Fighting Forces #156 Our Fighting Forces #157 Our Fighting Forces #158 Our Fighting Forces #159 Our Fighting Forces #160 Our Fighting Forces #161 Prisoner #1 Sandman #1 Sandman #2 Sandman #3 Sandman #4 Sandman #5 Sandman #6 Sandman #7 Satan's Six #1 Secret Origins #19 Silver Star misc. Silver Star #1 Silver Star #2 Silver Star #3 Silver Star #4 Silver Star #5 Silver Star #6 Silver Surfer Graphic Novel Skull the Slayer #8 Soul Love #1 Spidey Super-Stories #19 Spidey Super-Stories #20 Spirit World #2 (FTODM #6) Spirit World #2 (WMT #2) Spirit World #2 (WMT #3) Strange Tales #141 Street Code (Argosy Vol. 3, #2) Super Powers V.1 #5 Superman #400 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #139 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #143 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #144 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #145 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #146 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #147 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #148 Thor #144 Thor #147 Thor #152 Thor #157 Thor #166 Thor #177 Thor #250 Thor #251 Thor #252 Thor #253 Thor #255 Thor Annual #5 Thunder Foot #1

1-8, unused page 1-23 c, 1, 4-8, 10-23 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-10, 13, 16-20 1-20 9, 20 c, 1, 3-25 (page 25 with and without text) 1-16, 18-23, back-up 1-3 1, 4-26 c, 1, 4-15, 17-22 1-3, 6-25 pencils, 1-25 inks (unaltered 1st version) cover, back cover, unused cover cover, back cover back cover 1-15, 37-44, unused cover cover cover 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-20 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-18 1, 4-20 c, 1, 4-9, 11, 14-17, 19--20 1, 4-18, 20 c, 1, 4-13, 15-20 cover 1, 4-18 c, 1, 4-18 c, 1, 4-18 c, 1, 4-18 1, 4-16 1 1-17 1, 4-20 cover cover c, 1-18 c, 8-11 1-18 1-8, 10-12, 14-18 (all inked, no pencils) c, 10 pages cover Concepts 1, 2 8, 12-15 c, 1, 4-20 4-20 c, 1-15 c, 1-7, 10, 11, 14-20 c, 1, 2, 5-20 1-4, 6-71, 74-97, 100 cover c, Doll 1-5, Go-Go 1-10, Nurse 1-7, Teacher 1-10 cover cover Bloodhound 1 (layout) Toxl 1, 4-12 Burners 1-5, 7-10 6 1-10 c, 2, 3, 6-10, 12, 16-20, 22-23 pin-up 19 c, 1, 6-22, back-up 1-2 c, 1-22, back-up 1-2 1, 4-24, back-up 1-2 c, 1-22, back-up 2 1, 4-24 1-22 1-16, unused cover 14-15, Inhumans 1-5 2 9, 10 1-15 2 cover cover cover cover cover cover cover

True Divorce Cases #1 Weird Wonder Tales #18 Weird Wonder Tales #19 Weird Wonder Tales #20 What If? #9 What If? #10 Who’s Who #2 Who’s Who #3 Who's Who #16 Who’s Who #20

Twin 1-7, Maid 1-13, Other Woman 1-10, Cheater 1 cover cover cover cover cover (unused) Beautiful Dreamer, Big Barda Black Racer New Gods Sandy

The following are issues that we have poor-quality second- or third-generation xeroxes of, so THESE ORIGINALS DO EXIST. If you have decent copies of any of these (or any others not on the main list above), please LOAN THEM TO US so we can scan them for the archives (or send the best quality copies possible, since they’ll be one generation worse): 2001: A Space Odyssey #3 2001: A Space Odyssey #7 Atlas #1 (First Issue Special #1) Captain America #101 Captain America #102 Captain America #103 Captain America #104 Captain America #210 Demon #1 Demon #2 Demon #3 Devil Dinosaur #8 Eternals #11 Fantastic Four #75 Fantastic Four #76 Fantastic Four #86 Fantastic Four #89 Fantastic Four #91 Forever People #6 Forever People #7 Forever People #8 Forever People #9 Forever People #10 Forever People #11 In The Days Of The Mob #2 Journey Into Mystery #112 Journey Into Mystery #117 Kamandi #1 Kamandi #2 Kamandi #30 Machine Man #6 Mister Miracle #8 Mister Miracle #9 Mister Miracle #18 New Gods #7 New Gods #8 New Gods #11 OMAC #1 Our Fighting Forces #151 Our Fighting Forces #152 Silver Surfer Graphic Novel Spirit World #2 (WMT #1) Strange Tales #141 Super Powers V.1 #4 Super Powers V.1 #5

11 3, 14 cover, unused cover 1, 3-11 1-10 1, 4-8, 14-20 1, 4, 5, 8, 19, 20 c, 12-13, 16-17 c, 26 published page 6 (says 5 on it) 14 11 cover 4 20 17, 18, 20 7 4 12, 18, 19 13 c, 24 unused cover 11 22 1, 17, 30, covers (3 ways) TOA 1-5 14, 16 (2) unused covers 1 18 unused cover 9, 10 16, 21, 22 15 10, 14, 22, unused page, others? 17 cover cover unused page 12-13 5 Horoscope 1, others? 2-5, 7, 8 cover 15

Under The Covers

Super Powers V.2 #3 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #139 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #141 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #142 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #143 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #145 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #147 Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #148 Thor #147 Thor #152 Thor #154 Thor #155 Thor #156 Thor #157 Thor #162 Thor #164 Thor #166 Thor #177 Thor #258

cover 1-22 cover back-up 1-2 4, 5 cover unused cover back-up 1-2 2-11 1, 3-11, 13-16 2, 3, 9, 11, 12, 14-18 5 1-5 1-8 16, 18-20 16-20 16-20 1 cover

It’s extremely likely complete sets of copies of pencils exist for the following issues, but we don’t have access to them. If you have copies of ANY of these, please loan them to us or send copies, so we can verify their existence and scan them for the archives. DC Comics Presents #84 Demon #4 Forever People #5 New Gods #5

New Gods #7 Our Fighting Forces #155 Our Fighting Forces #162 Spirit World #2 (WMT #1) “Horoscope”

Become Guest Editor of TJKC! Here’s your chance to guide the future direction of TJKC! Next issue is our long-awaited “Fan Favorites” theme, and one lucky reader gets to be guest editor of our Art Gallery section! Just look over the Kirby Archives list starting on the previous pages, and tell us the 20 pieces of pencil art you’d most like to see. We’ll randomly select one reader’s list, and run their choices!

The Rules: 1) For copyright and variety reasons, pick no more than one page from any given issue, or we’ll disqualify your entry. (And try to mix-up companies and time periods as much as possible, so other readers will enjoy it too!) 2) If the winner chooses a page that’s been reproduced in a previous issue of TJKC at a decent size, we’ll pick an appropriate substitute (after all, we want to see as many of these pages in print as possible). 3) Submit your entry by mail, fax, or e-mail NO LATER THAN JULY 4 to: TwoMorrows Publishing • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 FAX 919-833-8023 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com Be sure to include your name and mailing address on your entry. Include any captions or comments you’d like considered for print (including why you chose the ones you did). The best part is this contest has no losers! All entries will be used to determine what goes in future issues, so enter today!

he front cover of this issue is another of those mid-1960s concept pieces Jack did (this one from 1966). It looks to have been inked by Don Heck, and then watercolored by Jack. Who this enchanting lady was meant to be is anyone’s guess, but the “E” on her belt makes me want to simply call her “Enchantra,” so I guess that’s as good a name as any to use when referring to her in the future. Our back cover certainly looks to be of the Challengers of the Unknown. The Challengers of the Unknown comic was cancelled in 1970 after its last three issues (#75-77) featured Kirby reprints (right at the time Jack was launching the Fourth World at DC). Jack was asked to do a new Challs cover for Super DC Giant #S-25 in 1971 (featuring more Kirby Challengers reprints), and the Challengers comic was briefly revived in 1973 for three more all-Kirby reprint issues (#78-80). Based on this, and the 1973 date of this color painting by Jack, I’m inclined to believe that DC might’ve been considering bringing the strip back with Jack at the helm, doing all-new stories (Challs is about the only old Kirby strip or genre DC didn’t give Jack a shot at reviving in the 1970s). I’m guessing Jack may have done this painting as a “warm-up” to get a feel for the characters again, but sales on the reprint revival didn’t live up to expectations, and plans were shelved. ★

Thinkin’ ’bout inkin’

No Ordinary Joe:

Interviewed by Jim Amash

(next page, top) Recent photo of Joe Sinnott.

(Editor’s Note: Thanks to Joe Sinnott, Jim Amash, and TJKC readers for their patience in allowing me to delay this interview until this issue, where we can give it the full space it deserves. I’m confident this is the most thorough discussion of inking Joe’s ever had in print.)

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: You really have a three-phase career in inking Jack Kirby. By that, I mean you did a little bit of inking over his pencils in the early 1960s, before Jack’s style evolved into his more famous one. Then, of course, you were his inker on Fantastic Four during its best period, and did a short stint on Captain America in Tales Of Suspense, all during that “famous” period. Finally, you inked some covers and that Silver Surfer graphic novel in the 1970s, after Jack’s work had reached its peak. JOE SINNOTT: That’s all very true. Early on, I put a lot of my own style into the work, much more so than I did later on. I got slicker later on, and followed Jack’s pencil lines more, not adding or changing as much as I had previously. TJKC: When you first started inking Jack, did Stan say much to you? JOE: The first thing I inked over Jack was a western (“The Man From Fargo” in an issue of Kid Colt, Outlaw). A few times in the past, I’ve stated that “Pildorr” was the first story of Jack’s I inked, because that’s the first one that really stands out in my memory. I thought Pildorr was a prototype for the Thing. It was right at that point where Stan and Jack created the Fantastic Four. Before all this, I had always penciled and inked my own work, so inking another artist was a change. Stan didn’t give me any direction; he just wanted me to ink Jack. He was in a bind, needed an inker, and I was one of the guys he asked to ink Kirby. Evidently, Stan liked what I did right off the bat. The only comment he ever made, early on, was “I like what you’re doing. Keep it up. Whatever you do, don’t leave us!” I don’t remember if that was before Fantastic Four #5 or not. Of course, I wasn’t going to leave Stan, but I had outside work to do, too. I started the sixth issue of Fantastic Four, but dropped it after I inked a couple of panels because I wanted to do a sixty-five page story of the life of the Pope for Treasure Chest. Anyway, that was the only comment he ever made about my inks on Kirby. I never talked to Kirby during that time either; not by phone or by mail. The only time I met Jack was in 1975, at a convention in New York. We spent two days together there. I got the pages in the mail from Marvel, did them and sent them back in. I rarely ever went to the offices. In looking back at some of my pages over the years, I only saw a couple of times where the pages didn’t look quite like I

Mr. Sinnott Speaks had inked them. I’m thinking specifically about the cover of Fantastic Four #98 [previous page]. Jack had placed a shadow on the Thing’s left arm, and I followed it. I can see they took the shadow out, because I’d have never inked those rocks the way that they appear. The shadow also covered part of the left leg, the left side of the Thing’s chest and a little bit on the underside of the Thing’s right triceps. I have the original art to that cover and can see all the white paint over those areas and the corrections on top. The original drawing was better and those changes detracted from the drawing. I don’t know why they did that. Sometimes, they used to make other changes. For example, on this cover, if they had felt the Torch would have looked better flying in from the other side, they’d stat the pose and reposition it. They didn’t do that here, but when they did do it, I felt it usually wasn’t as good as what we had done. TJKC: We’ve already covered the early stuff for a future issue of Alter Ego [#26, shipping from TwoMorrows in July], but because that was the more famous period where you really evolved, we’ll focus our attention there.

Thing. I’d have added shadows behind Crystal and Johnny, too. That’s all it’d have needed. In those days, when we were getting the rates we were paid, we put as much into it as we had the time for. I had to get the work done in a certain amount of time in order to make a living. I had to do a minimum of three pages a day over Jack’s work. That was basically the reason I didn’t do more than I did. Look at Reed and Sue’s faces. It’s Kirby, but it also has my influence over it. The noses and hair are slightly different.

JOE: Sure. I do want to say that I was very impressed by FF #5. Doctor Doom was such a great character and that’s a very good story, too. My inking got better as I went along, too. TJKC: I agree. Of course, Jack’s figure work was different here, in comparison to what he did by the time you returned. JOE: I agree. The figures were thinner in the earlier days. You’re probably wondering about what I did in this early period. I always felt the backgrounds were very important and always gave them complete attention. Backgrounds are an integral part of the total composition. Jack’s backgrounds at this time were not as intricate as they became later on. Look at page six in Fantastic Four #88 [right]. You see the backgrounds? They’re simple, but effective. I added detail to the tree trunks, the grass and the dirt. Look just below Reed’s feet and you’ll see my trademark texture. It’s also behind Sue on the bottom right corner. It’s all incidental, but it adds an extra feeling to the page as a whole. You need to convince the reader that they are in that environment. This is a simple page, but very effective. Not much is happening action-wise, but the techniques carry the day. TJKC: True, but I notice that while you indicate some light sources in their clothes and in the tree trunks, you didn’t place any shadows beneath the characters. JOE: That’s true. You know, it’s funny, but I was just thinking about that. If I had inked this page now, or even a little later than I had, I’d have cast those shadows. I’d had a shadow from Reed’s feet, going back in the space. I’d have cast a shadow behind Reed, onto the 7

over other patches of grass. It may not mean much, but it adds depth of space to the area. TJKC: It seems to me that you would keep Jack’s basic patterns, but modified them in order to fit your style. JOE: That’s probably true. A lot of the things I did over Jack were done unconsciously. I tried to ink it with a nice thick-&-thin line, add form, and keep a nice three-dimensional effect. I certainly didn’t think about it too much. I prettied up the faces and such, rendered the textures as I thought they needed to look, and added a spot of black here and there as needed to help the page read better. I did what I could in the time that I had. TJKC: Getting back to the shadows, I know you’re aware that Jack’s light sources had little in common with nature. JOE: (laughs) When I draw something, I make my light sources as consistent as I can. Of course, Jack was thinking more about design than he was light source, so he felt free to alter the rules. Who’s to say that there’s not another light source to the left that you don’t see in the picture? Jack spotted blacks according to design, not light source. Burne Hogarth taught me as a kid to squint my eyes at my work to see if the page is balanced. If you have blacks on the bottom right corner of the page, make sure you have black on the left somewhere to balance it out and make it easier to read. I always tried to balance my black areas out to enhance the composition of the page. That also makes it “reader friendly.” Another example of something I’d do differently today (or even a few years after I had originally done it) is on the splash page of Fantastic Four #91. [left] I would have added a black shadow behind the caption at the top right, under the title. It would have balanced the page a little better. TJKC: Some inkers start with the backgrounds first. Do you?

(right) Lyle Tucker sent in this clipping from the fanzine Ragnarok #2, from around 1973 or 1974. The photo (possibly by Tom Fagan) is from the 1972 New York Comic Art Convention. So for all of us who thought Kirby and Sinnott first met at the 1975 Marvel Convention, looks like they actually met a few years earlier, if only briefly. (Check out the expression on the face of that kid in the middle— probably the same expression this mag’s editor had the one time he met Jack.) Fantastic Four, Gorgon TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

I always made the characters a little better looking than Jack did. All these faces are a little prettier than what Jack had penciled. That was one of the things I brought to his work. If I was getting better pay and had more time, I’d have improved it a little more. Now, Jack’s work was great just as it was, but an inker’s job is to correct and add things as needed. TJKC: Exactly. Even the patterning of the grass at their feet was changed. That’s your patterning, not Jack’s. You made it a little more naturalistic. JOE: There again, I’m a stickler for detail and textures are very important. As you know, I love doing outdoor scenes; they’re so much fun to play with. On this page, you’ll notice that I had the grass cross in front of the logs. I even crossed the grass

JOE: No. Sometimes, in the morning when I start, in order to get my pen working, I might do a couple of straight lines in the background first; but then, I’d go to the figures and do the backgrounds later. I’d only do backgrounds first when I needed to warm up; same thing if I started with a brush that day. TJKC: Most inkers (and I’m not one of them) start out inking a page with a pen first. That’s not how you work, is it? JOE: When I inked Kirby, the Winsor-Newton Series Seven #3 brushes were very good. Once in a great while, I’d use a #2. I’d take the brush and do the bold, heavy stuff first. I’d do the hair and other details with a pen, too, but the brush is usually what I started inking a page with. TJKC: You started your long run of the FF with #44. Your style is very evident on this story. Let’s look at the splash page. [next page, top]

JOE: The first thing that jumps out at me is the feathering, which Jack didn’t do much of. Look at the black areas on Gorgon’s cape and see how I feathered out of them. Since this was the first time I’d inked Jack in so long, maybe I figured I’d better improve on it. I used to joke that Jack didn’t know how to draw ears, so I’d give the characters Alex Raymond ears; but I later decided that I shouldn’t do that, so I went back to inking them the way that Jack had penciled them. There was nothing wrong with the way Jack drew them, though. I just liked the way Raymond did ears. TJKC: Looking here, I’d say this was a very good mix of Jack Kirby and Joe Sinnott. I notice that you feathered out on his legs, too. JOE: That’s because Jack indicated muscles with slashes. TJKC: Yeah, the Kirby “squiggles” that Jack used to indicate forms, whether they be muscles or light sources. JOE: Right. Looking back at that #88 splash we were talking about, I notice I kept a few of those slashes on the Thing’s coat. If I was doing that today, I’d have feathered out those areas more. Most of the lines are slashes. Even on the pants, they’re treated that way, though I did feather out some. Same goes for the wrinkles on Johnny’s clothes. Jack’s treatment of wrinkles were impressionistic like his muscles. You can’t find a wrinkle or a muscle on a human that looked like that. I used to make them more realistic. Look at Johnny’s left arm and you’ll see that’s the way wrinkles would look. Today, I’d have added a shadow under Johnny’s left arm, too. TJKC: I notice that Jack was doing some of those squiggles by #44, but you changed them to more naturalistic forms. JOE: Yes, and I got away from doing that later on. I was really keeping them by the last couple of years of inking Jack. My inking got slicker and my lines got finer. I was less heavy on the outlines, too. TJKC: I’m assuming that you changed those squiggles because you considered them to be a guide to where the muscles were and not the actual forms themselves. JOE: Unconsciously, I was probably thinking that. Look at page 17 of FF #82. [below] That page is a good example of the slashes and squiggles. You’ll notice I didn’t feather out the black areas on that creature that the Thing and the Torch

are fighting. It’s clean and crisp lines. Today, I’d have made the muscles on Johnny look a little more realistic in panel three. On a robot, the squiggles made them look more metallic, which they should. I generally tried to feather out of them when they were on human beings, so the characters would look less metallic; but I doubt I was analyzing it then, the way we are now. On that Gorgon splash, you’ll notice I feathered out the black lines on his arms. Jack had only indicated a slash there. The slashes and squiggles were only guides. TJKC: Comparing that to the splash of FF #46 [see next page, top], I see that the left arm of Black Bolt probably had those squiggles on it, but you changed that to more realistic forms. JOE: I did, and of course, that arm is too short. I couldn’t lengthen it because the fist would have been omitted from the picture. If Jack had drawn that arm a little later in his career, he’d have made that fist come right at the reader. I probably over-feathered on that arm, but I did it, thinking it would help. Then again, Stan told me to do what I wanted to do because he was happy with my work. TJKC: That whole figure looks like it was inked with a brush. JOE: It looks like it to me, too. The Thing and the Torch where obviously inked with a pen. I always did the Torch’s flame lines with a pen. I thought the 9

Thing was Jack’s greatest character, but he did a good Torch, too. Some of those scenes where the Torch flies over the city were some of Jack’s greatest scenes. On page 16 of Fantastic Four #89 [this page, bottom], the thing that pops out at me is the outline of the Torch. I always tried to do his outlines with a thick-&-thin brush line. That sets the Torch apart from the rest of the art; he pops out at you and doesn’t blend in with the background. I could have done those inside flame lines with a brush, but a pen looks better. The thick lines around the Torch’s hands, especially his left one, are nearly as thick as the lines around his left hip and calf. I made that decision in order to keep the envelope of the figure readable, but I doubt I gave it the kind of thought I’m giving it today. I just knew what looked good and made sense. TJKC: The top of the Torch’s head is thicker than the jaw lines, which gives us a sense of receding space. Whether you were analyzing it or not, it just works! The thickest line you have on him is the underside of his left palm, which is what is closest to the reader. JOE: That’s all true, but sometimes those things happened because I made the line a little thicker than it should have been and didn’t have the time to go back and thin it a little. One of the things I’d change today would be to further emphasize the Torch’s eyes. I’d go a little darker on the brow, but that’s nitpicking. It looks fine the way that it is. TJKC: Hey, I nitpick my own work to death, so I understand your feeling. You did something here that John Romita taught me, which was never to make the speed lines too thick. When you do, they become part of the figure instead of just an action line. I notice you used a single line weight for the outer flames that come from the Torch’s body. JOE: Yes. That was done with a pen, knowing that all I needed here was a holding line for the color. The Thing had to pop out from the picture and I made sure he didn’t fade into the background. I never really thought about keeping the flame a single line weight. I’d do it the same way today. Flames have a thinner weight content than body forms, so you wouldn’t want to call attention by adding thick-&-thin lines to it. It’s more of a design element. I also liked it when Jack had Johnny throwing those fireballs. I wish he’d have done more of that. TJKC: In Jack’s pencil version [see TJKC #31, page 49], I notice the Torch has some thicker flame lines inside the figure. You took that extra weight out and made all the flame lines equal in strength. It does make for a better, more readable design. JOE: I don’t know why I did that, except that it kept a consistent look to the character. The way I inked those lines was the way they always looked. Now sometimes, the way you make a pencil line isn’t exactly how you want it inked. Those lines were intended to be thinner. Pencil isn’t pen or brush and the lines you get aren’t always expected to look like that in the final product. That’s probably what happened here and since I knew how the Torch was supposed to look, I kept the accepted look. That also meant organizing the individual flames on the Torch’s body. All this has to do with keeping a consistent pattern to the Torch for better reader identification, and simply because it just looks better that way. I didn’t change Jack that much here; I just accented what he had in mind. One of the things about inking Kirby was the fact that I never used a French curve or circle templates. I always did them by hand, though once in a while I’d use a compass

for big circles or a ruler for straight lines. I had confidence in myself and could freehand most things. Once in a while, I’d use a little bit of white-out if I had to make a correction. Look at the ellipse on the wall on the right side of the page. I freehanded that. TJKC: Let’s go to page 17 of FF #82 again [previous page]. Did you use a compass for the 10

circle around his fist in panel two? JOE: Yes. The compass was used for that and for the outer line of that form, at the top right. All the other lines are freehanded with a pen. TJKC: You’d use a brush for action lines, too. JOE: Sure, but it depended on the type of action line it is. I’d do it when I wanted a more forceful line. I used a compass on that circle in panel four, but the rest of the action lines were done with a pen and a ruler. TJKC: Let’s look at the last panel of page 8, FF Special #4 [below]. Tell me how you did the action lines. JOE: I used a ruler for those lines. The outer line makes it look like a surf board. (laughs) Even though I’d sometimes use a brush for the lines going out of a panel, like at the top right here, I think all this is pen work. The way I made these lines is interesting. I’d take a ruler and change the angle of the pen as I ruled a line, in order to give action lines a thick-&-thin look. I’d start from the thick line, and decrease the pressure on the pen point as I go in, which gives the illusion of speed. I never used a technical pen or a dry marker. The only pen nib I’ve ever used is a Hunt #102. It’s a stiff nib whose point can widen as you apply pressure. It’s almost like a crowquill. TJKC: Do you elevate the ruler off of the page when you make those lines? JOE: I’ve been using the same plastic ruler since 1960. The ruler has little nicks in it, but it’s a perfect size (twelve inches) and has a perfectly beveled edge. I have masking tape on the bottom of the ruler so I won’t smear ink on the page. The ruler isn’t flush with the page because of that tape. Sometimes, I’ll take the ruler and elevate the side that the pen slides against. I make these lines very quickly in order to get the thick-to-thin look.

(above) When Marvel reprinted FF #82 (Jan. 1969) in Marvel’s Greatest Comics #64 (July 1976), they apparently couldn’t find a good stat of the original Kirby/Sinnott cover art, and commissioned Joe to redraw it. Fantastic Four TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

TJKC: Look at page three, panel three of Thor #149. [right] You didn’t use a ruler for the action lines inside that door? JOE: That was obviously freehanded. When they are that small, I generally freehand them. The lines coming from Black Bolt were freehanded, too. I also freehanded the long outer speed lines coming from Black Bolt. A general rule of thumb is I make the thickest part of the action lines close to the source and then I thin the line out as it recedes from the form. TJKC: Which is one of the many things I’ve learned 11

from studying your work, Joe. Now, let’s take a look at page 16 of FF #99 [right], and talk about the action lines in the bottom panel. Is all this done with a pen and ruler? JOE: Yes. I suppose I could have done the Torch lines with just a pen. It all depends upon what tools I’m using at the moment. If I’m already using the ruler and pen, then it’s easier to continue working that way, rather than to just put the ruler down and freehand. That goes for the small lines, too. Sometimes, I will put the ruler down and freehand those small lines, but I didn’t in this case; but in looking at the foot and calf, I might have freehanded that. The same with the right hand. TJKC: In looking at this Captain America page from Tales Of Suspense #92 [below], I see action lines in every panel. Nearly every group of action lines are separated by white space, which is a great effect. Did Jack indicate that kind of grouping or would that have been your idea? JOE: I don’t remember whether Jack indicated that or not, but I would have done it anyway because it’s an effect that works. TJKC: Everybody who’s followed you in this business, including me, has copied that from you. JOE: Really? I didn’t know that. I’ve always heard that Jack copied the “crackle effect” from me, because he didn’t indicate it on the pages when I started doing it; but everybody, even Jack Kirby, learns from other people. It’s not putting down Jack to say that I started this particular effect. Jack must have seen what I was doing, liked it, and started drawing it that way. TJKC: Mike Royer and many others certainly think that, but what good is a collaboration if you can’t learn from each other? You and Jack made one of the greatest art teams in comics; a true symbiotic relationship. JOE: That’s right, and we learned from each other, in one way or another, without trying. It just happened. I learned a lot about storytelling and composition from Jack. He learned a bit about surface rendering from me. Some of Jack’s influences were the same as mine: Hal Foster and Alex Raymond. Maybe some of my work on Jack brought out a little of those early influences? Those influences continued to shape our work long after we stopped being a team. This Captain America page we were looking at is a great one. The layouts are terrific! Here again, this is

something I go back to when I say if I’d had more time, I could’ve improved little things here and there. A little shadow here and there, maybe a little black under the boots in panel two. In panel one, I’d add a shadow under Cap’s left arm, over his shield. That would have made it pop out more, and give a slightly better balance to the panel. I tell young people who are looking for inking advice to always put a little shadow under people’s chins and noses. It makes it look a little more three-dimensional. TJKC: I’m looking at Cap’s left leg in panel one, and knowing how Jack drew knees, I’d bet you that on the underside of the knee, going into the thigh, he’d have drawn a line around there, which you eliminated and turned into feathering; and there are no squiggles in Cap’s body. The muscles in the top part of his leg are a little 12

more naturalistic than what Jack did. JOE: Jack would never have feathered the leg like that; he’d have used slashes—and look at his boots. Jack never shaded boots like I did. I made the forms a little rounder, a little more three-dimensional, with more realistic wrinkles. Jack’s forms were a little simpler. TJKC: Jack’s lines were more geometric than yours. I always thought you made them a little more organic. JOE: I did. I kept the basic shape of that knee, but it’s not as hard-edged as before. If I had penciled that page, that’s the way I would have inked it. I tried to ink Kirby so that it looked like Kirby, but there was no way to do it without my own influence showing through. I did keep some of Kirby’s slashes, but not all of them. This page is a very good example of the merging of our two styles. TJKC: We spent a little bit of time discussing the Torch, so let’s discuss the Thing. Some of the previous inkers, like Dick Ayers and Chic Stone, worked out their own systems for delineating the look of the Thing, but there’s no doubt your system became the standard. JOE: The original Thing was lumpy looking. By the time I got to inking the FF on a regular basis, Jack had worked out how he wanted the Thing to look. What I did was to reinforce his idea. That’s why I put those little dots on the Thing’s rocks, because it highlighted the rough, stone-like texture of his “skin.” TJKC: In looking at the first story in your run on FF, I notice you needed some time figuring out exactly how you wanted the Thing to appear. For instance, look at page eleven of Fantastic Four #44. [below left] The shading on the Thing in the second panel is very stylized, with a lot of pen work. JOE: It sure is. If someone had shown this to me out of the blue, I’d have said I never inked it. I was reaching for a style for the Thing and you can see my experimentation here. The Thing figure in panel three has very little black in the rocks, though they might not have been in Jack’s pencils either. Later on, I’d have added more black to that figure. And of course, I’d have fixed the Thing’s left shoulder. I’d have also added more black to the buildings in the last panel, too. One thing that sticks out on these pages is the way I did the wrinkles in the costumes. I put more creases around shoulders and elbows; those are my treatments, not Jack’s. He may have indicated a little of that, but I took it a step further. If you’ll look at panel one, you’ll see the costume around Reed’s shoulders is a

little baggy. Same with Sue’s costume in that panel. I wouldn’t have done that later on. The costumes became more form-fitting over time. TJKC: By #46, you seemed to have settled down into a formula for inking the Thing. I look at the splash to that issue and see that the Thing looks close to your standard look. [see page 10, top left] JOE: True. That’s basically how he looked the rest of the way, except for that bit of feathering on the stones, which I soon eliminated. Speaking of stylizing, look at Reed and Sue’s faces on this page. I prettied them up a bit. That was something I always did. Stan Lee always liked handsome characters. He used to say, “Try to make the guys look like Errol Flynn.” He always referred to movie actors when he had a character in mind. Of course, I never thought of Reed Richards as Errol Flynn and Stan wasn’t suggesting that I do. What he meant was that he wanted the men to have that level of handsome quality in their faces. So I made Reed’s hair wavier and spotted more black in the brown area of his hair. And Sue’s face here is “my” face, not Jack’s. Of course, if we look back to #44, page 18 [above], you’ll notice I had really started figuring out the look for the Thing by issue’s end. I was growing into the series as I went along. TJKC: Speaking of faces, look at Johnny’s face in the second panel of page six from FF #78 [left]. That’s a Joe Sinnott face there, not a Kirby. 13

conscious of that. You know that they are going to make the “F” on the car blue, but still you should make it more definable in ink. My lines are a little weak here. The pages should always hold up in black-&-white. It’s not enough to have two “colors,” meaning black-&-white. You need to have midtones, which is why I’d feather out of black areas, turn slashes into feathering, and vary my line weights so much. Using thin lines and thick lines for wrinkles creates a gray area. Using thin groups of lines in Reed’s hair, then spotting a few black places makes a great contrast to the lower half, where Reed’s hair is white. In that area, you don’t spot black, unless the scene is dramatically lit and even then, you don’t need much of it. You’re like me in the sense that you never take a page and think, “I’m going to ink this exactly like it was penciled.” You know everyone’s work can be improved, no matter if it’s Kirby or John Buscema, if the inker knows what he’s doing. I always felt that I had to improve the work. TJKC: In Jack’s case, did you feel like you were “improving” or “enhancing?” JOE: I think I did both. Sometimes, I tried to enhance it and maybe I improved it instead. I hate to use the word “improved,” because Jack’s work was so great. I could have inked them exactly as Jack had penciled them, and everything would have still looked good; but then I wouldn’t have been doing my job—so I made changes. Jack had a habit of not putting both eyes on the same plane when he drew faces. That was something I’d always fix. Every artist has these kinds of quirks. TJKC: Mike Royer made the same comment about the eyes.

JOE: It sure is. It’s more realistic than Jack’s faces. Look at his ear: Jack never drew ears like that. The face is basically Jack’s proportioning, but things like the muscle lines on Johnny’s neck and the hair treatments are mine. Notice how I cut down on the dots on the Thing’s face in that panel. I didn’t use any on the head. TJKC: The Thing’s an interesting character because graphically, there’s so much happening in his body, with all the rocks and blacks and textures. JOE: True. That’s why organization of blacks and textures were so important here. Jack always spotted blacks on the Things’ body and while I may have refined them from time to time, I always made sure

they defined the readability of that character. I’m looking at panel one and while it’s okay, it’s a little light looking. I should have spotted more blacks and maybe thickened up a few holding lines, especially on the front part of the Fantasti-car and around the area where Ben is working; but I was pressed for time. My holding lines are thinner than what I normally did. I would have added some blacks to the underside of the cycle in Ben’s hands, and to the inside of the cockpits in the Fantasti-car. I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but these are the things I notice now. Hopefully, it’ll help give further insight to our readers. Of course, color will solve a lot of these problems. When you’re working, you’re

JOE: I’m sure Jack was aware of it, but it’s just the way he drew. He was drawing a mile a minute and these things just happen. I did pretty up the women, but I didn’t labor over it. I felt I could help the work. I certainly didn’t erase what Jack did and put my own work over it. I just inked what he penciled and my style came out, particularly in the faces. Look at page nineteen of FF #89 [left, shown in pencil and ink]. In the third panel, you’ll notice that I changed Sue and Crystal’s faces, if you compare them to the original pencils. There’s not much of a difference, but it’s there. I also added some white in the black areas of the Thing’s rocks. Same goes for panel one. Sue’s face is more organic and I gave more definition to the shape of the face. I kept the basic patterns in Reed’s hair, but gave it that midrange we were discussing earlier. By the way, I also added the “4” on Sue’s chest in panel three and altered the one on Johnny’s chest in panel four for consistency’s sake. I see the Mole Man’s in that panel. I always loved inking the Mole Man. I loved inking capes and flowing robes, which was a reason I liked Dr. Doom so much. Those two villains were among Jack’s best. Characters like Galactus, no matter how great they were, had all those buttons and mechanical things 15

on them. Inking them was drudgery to me by comparison. They required more pen work, whereas with capes, I could just pick up a brush and have fun. I look at Galactus in the final page of FF #48, [left] and I see all kinds of work in that figure. I made the arms look like flesh and the metal look like metal, although Jack must have indicated the look of the metal. Jack never put feathering on the arms as I did here, so that’s my doing. That costume sure took some time to do, because of all the elements in it. It was my job to keep the most important elements in that costume readable and I’d add little spots of black to achieve that. You know, Jack seldom drew that costume the same way twice. The chest armor and the helmet changed from time to time. Jack would add those little white lines in-between the blacks on the costume and sometimes, I’d do a little more of it to help out the effect. TJKC: I know Jack always indicated and filled in his blacks, but you were free to change them, as you often did. I’m looking at the splash with the Black Panther, from FF #52 [left]. JOE: I did too much feathering on the Panther here. I guess I was trying to make the costume have a little shine to it, but I lost the structure of his right shoulder and top of the arm. Today I’d add a little more white to that. It’s confusing the way it is now. I’d also add some white to the areas around his right hand in order to separate it a little more from his leg. I’d have inked it simpler today. I wish we had the pencils so I could see how Jack had penciled it, because I might have inked it the way he penciled it, except for adding all that feathering. I kept the face simple and that’s the best part of this figure. Jack sure drew a great splash here. TJKC: Let’s talk about faces a little more. Here’s a Nick Fury page from Strange Tales #92. [left] The female faces look like John Romita faces. JOE: They sure are John Romita faces... and hair. I wonder why? I’m sure I didn’t even ink them. They must have pasted these faces over what I did. I didn’t ink hair like that or faces either. John drew beautiful women. Until I looked at this page, I hadn’t known they had done this. 16

TJKC: Would Stan ask you to make corrections like that? JOE: Very seldom. When he did, Stan would make a note beside a panel. In fact, on the Sunday Spider-Man strips, which I currently ink, Stan will still make notes like that; but he didn’t have to do that very often on Kirby’s work. My changing of faces on Kirby’s work was not because of a directive from Stan. That was just me doing my thing. TJKC: Let’s talk about Sue for a moment. I’m looking at page 14 from FF #52. [left] How did you ink Sue when she became the Invisible Girl? JOE: I outlined her in pen and went back with Rich Art White Poster Paint to make the white areas on her figure. I did that with a brush. I tried to make the black line the same length as the white line, though I never measured it. I don’t recall how Jack did the effect in pencil. He might have used an eraser to make the white areas. I used white-out for special effects, like running it through reflection lines in windows. [below] This effect adds to the illusion of a light source on glass. Since glass is clear and reflective, you need to make this kind of effect for it to be convincing. I also used it for corrections; I didn’t use a razor blade to cut those areas out, like Mike Royer did. White-out can be used for a number of things, like depicting snow falling around figures. For rain effects, you can take the side of a razor blade and make the rain lines. That’s much easier than using white paint; but when I had white into shadow areas, I left those areas in white when I brush inked it. I might add a touch of white to improve a small area, but I didn’t generally use paint in those shadows. TJKC: When you inked Reed Richards, I thought you were more organic in your rendering because his body was pliable, not muscular, when he was stretching. JOE: That’s true. On the splash page to FF #46 [see page 10], Jack might have made slashed lines on Reed, but my way gave him a greater feeling of elasticity. Of course, Jack would indicate those kinds of lines, too, so I can’t take full credit for this effect. You notice, I did keep the musculature in his arms, because they were being stretched. One thing Jack did very little of was that he didn’t stretch Reed’s neck out much. It seems like everything else would get stretched but the neck. One guy who did a lot of that was Bill Sienkiewicz. He experimented with things like that a bit more. TJKC: Earlier, we touched on the use of the “Kirby Krackle,” so I’d like to get back to that. Look at page three, panel two from Thor

#149. [below] When you inked the “Kirby Dots”—though I guess we should call them “Sinnott Dots,” since you started them—did you use a Speedball pen point? JOE: Yes, I did. I used a Hunt #102 for everything else but the dots. Sometimes I did use a blunt, brass nib for buildings or rock textures. I used that for the dot texture on the Thing too, especially if it was a close-up shot. I still use that nib, which I’ve had for about thirty years. Brass nibs never wear out. You can bend them out of shape, but they’ll bend back and never break. TJKC: What gave you the idea to use the dot effect, since Jack wasn’t doing it early on? JOE: It was just a nice effect. I think I had used them before I ever inked Jack. I don’t remember what size Speedball point I used, but it always worked for me. I could make big dots and little ones with it. When Jack started using the dot effect, I noticed that his patterning was more haphazard than mine. I’d change what he did to my own patterning. Jack’s dots weren’t as round as mine, but that’s harder to do with a pencil. He always filled them in, though. It was quicker for me to do it with a Speedball and I’d also change the way he had white flowing in-between the areas. Look at panel two [left] and you’ll see the edges made it look like it was crackling, which is where the term comes from. In the third panel [see page 11], the organization of dots is different on Black Bolt. This was to give a contrasting effect to the previous panel. The Black Bolt figure has a thinner holding line than what I’d normally do. His body is full of energy, and this thinner line gave the sense of energy and light radiating from the effect of the beam hitting him. I added a lot of black to his left arm so I wouldn’t lose the three-dimensionality of the figure. These patterns are a little different than what I used on space scenes, but just slightly so. I consider this to be a form of texture, so there were times when I needed to vary just how I did it. Look at the first two panels on page three of Thor #147. [above right] The water texture demands a less oval shape to the dots. The special effect in the next panel is a different type of crackle, too. In the pencils, Jack’s patterns are a little different. Mine are more uniform, but the effect is still the same. Look at the top right of panel one, where the water isn’t moved as violently around as the bottom of that panel. I made it calmer and more realistic for contrast. I based my water patterns on Hal Foster’s. If you’ll check out panel three on page six of FF #95 [right], you’ll notice I made the underwater dots more like my outer space scenes, but with more white in-between the dot areas. This gives it a little different look and harmonizes the composition. In panel four, [far right] I added some detail to the water, giving it a midrange tone to help balance out that panel. These decisions are important for making an effective page. By the way, this was one of the rare times that Jack had Reed reform into a rubber ball. It’s very effective, but as I said, Jack didn’t explore the stretching aspects of Reed Richards as much as he could have. You look at what Jack Cole did with Plastic Man years before and you’ll really see what I mean. TJKC: I don’t recall you ever using zip-a-tone on Kirby’s pages. Any particular reason for that? JOE: I like zip-a-tone, and used it in my ’50s work and for my Treasure Chest stories. I’m sure there were a number of times that I thought about using it on Jack’s work, but it all came down to the kind of time I had. Cutting out shapes and putting them on the page would have slowed me down. It would’ve looked great on machinery, but I 17

was depending on the colorist to choose the right colors so it wouldn’t stand out. Sometimes the colorist used dark colors on the machines and it’d muddy up my line work. That was the only real complaint I had. TJKC: While we’re on the subject of textures, let’s go to page 18 of FF #44. [below and page 13] JOE: I see what you mean. This looks more like my inking on FF #5, with a lot of brushwork. I’m looking at how I did the hair on Gorgon’s arms, which was done with a brush. The inking is heavier here than my later inks on Jack. Gorgon was another great character. From this point, until about issue #60, Jack was coming up with great characters. Getting back to how I inked this page, I see I was more naturalistic in inking the figures. Gorgon’s arm in panel one and the bodies in panel two are prime examples of that. There are none of the Kirby slashes or squiggles in these bodies. The faces are more like mine too, and the ground treatment around the Thing’s hand in panel one is mine. In fact, I subtly altered most of the textures on this page. TJKC: Let’s discuss how you inked buildings. FF #95, first panel, [below] has a nice cityscape. Did you ever use a vanishing point when you did cityscapes, so that the buildings would line up correctly? JOE: No, because of the way Jack did them. If something was off, then I’d have to change it; but Jack was flawless at perspective, so there was no need to change his buildings. John Byrne was great at that, too. TJKC: You spotted some black in the buildings here, but you didn’t in panel three. Comparing this to FF #72, page 8 [right], I notice you did the same thing. Blacks are spotted in the buildings on the first two panels, but not in the last one. Discuss that. JOE: It may have been a matter of time, because I normally would have added black to those buildings for balance and depth; but then again, those panels without the black in the buildings don’t need it because the city isn’t as important in those scenes as they are in the ones where I did spot black. They only serve to remind you of the character’s environment and aren’t part of what’s happening, so there’s no reason to punch the buildings up with black. Having said that, today I may have added some black to the buildings in the last panel [right], but the backgrounds aren’t supposed to dominate, so I’d tread lightly here. TJKC: I’m looking at panel one, page fifteen of Fantastic Four #95. In comparing this with the pencils, I see you stuck closely to Jack’s buildings, though you did spot a little black here and there. JOE: This is the kind of page where you lose time and money because of all the backgrounds. It’s time consuming, but it’s a beautiful panel, so it was worth the work. You notice that Jack didn’t use a ruler when he drew buildings. He freehanded most everything. It took me extra time to rule everything, but that’s something that has to be done. Again, I didn’t spot any black on the buildings in the other panels because that would have placed too much importance to them and misdirect your eye. TJKC: Discuss page fourteen of FF #77. [next page, top right] There’s a lot of Kirby architecture here. JOE: Normally, I started inking at 18

the bottom of a page, so my hand won’t smear something that I haven’t inked yet. In this case, I started at the top because of all the blacks, and I freehanded the long, swooping curves on the right side of the page. I may have spotted some blacks or I may have just followed what Jack indicated. It’s balanced nicely. I did all the straight lines with a ruler. I had to so it’d be perfectly straight. Even near the bottom of the page, the windows next to the Thing were ruled. The little details, like the designs above the word balloon from Ben that starts, “He must have some case of bad breath!” are freehanded. This is the kind of page that really takes a lot of time, inbetween all the ruling and the filling-in of all those blacks. It probably took me four hours to do this page. Normally I’d start working about 7:30 in the morning, take a half hour out for lunch and then ink until about 4:30. I’d try to ink three pages in that time; and I didn’t have an assistant. I did all this work myself, except for one page in one of the later stories. I had a friend who really wanted to ink something so he could say he inked a Kirby page. I let him do some backgrounds on one page. That’s it! The rest was me. One of the fascinating things about Jack’s work was that he never repeated his machines. This building on the left is amazing. Jack has a fantastic imagination. TJKC: I’d like to compare this page to page eight in FF #89 [right]. How long would it take you to ink that kind of page? JOE: About an hour. It probably took longer to ink the decorative machinery above the Skrull’s head than it did his face and shoulders. It took a while to fill in the black areas, too.

TJKC: I have to add in this comment than John Morrow made on the side of the xerox. He asked, “Is a page like this a dream to ink? Looks like it’d take ten minutes versus a six panel page. Does it?” (laughs) JOE: Are you kidding?! (laughs) That design and the blacks took most of my time. It’s funny, but someone who doesn’t ink doesn’t understand the work involved. (laughs) You know that. I was at a convention once and a little kid came up and asked, “You’re an inker right? You just trace the lines.” Like, yeah, that’s all I do! TJKC: One time, I was showing work to an editor at a con and some guy comes up and says, “You’re looking for tracing work?” I told him the next thing I’d trace was his outline! JOE: As you know, I never complained about anything I was ever handed to ink. I inked great pencilers like Jack Kirby, John and Sal Buscema, John Byrne, Gene Colan, and Neal Adams. Sometimes I was inking Kirby swipers or guys who just didn’t have much going for them and it was my job to fix them up. Good inkers have to know how to draw. People don’t always understand what inkers have to put into the work. TJKC: Very true. It was just past midway through your run on Kirby that you started doing less of the kinds of things you did on figures, like Gorgon’s arm in panel one of FF #44, page 18. Artistically, was it more satisfying to you to enhance and improve Jack’s work than it was when you decided to stick closer to his pencils? JOE: I don’t know; it never made that much of a difference to me. A lot of people think Jack’s work declined when we got to around #80, but he was still doing good stuff, even up until the run in the 90s. Jack quit creating new characters, too. I always thought Kirby’s splash pages were better than his covers. TJKC: That may be because the splash pages generally were part of the storytelling, which Jack was more concerned about. The covers will stand alone as symbolic drawings. JOE: Jack also had less room on the covers. Stan usually put too many blurbs on the covers. I like symbolic covers, but was never crazy about

the montage covers that he did. Maybe the covers were afterthoughts to the story and Jack wasn’t as interested—and maybe someone at Marvel was giving Jack cover roughs to work off of? TJKC: I thought that Torgo storyline was the last gasp from Jack on the Fantastic Four. JOE: So did I. He did some nice art after that, but he was winding down. He wasn’t putting as much into the art after that. TJKC: That’s because he was so unhappy at Marvel. Now that we’re discussing the end of the Kirby run on Fantastic Four, I’d like to go to page 16 of FF #102. [next page] By this time, Jack’s background work was very simplified. JOE: There’s almost no backgrounds on this page. There are no full-figure shots, except on panel five. These are not good layouts from Jack. I noticed it at the time, too. I inked this page very closely to the way Jack had penciled it, very crisply. His pencils were still tight, but there’s no spirit here. There was a great splash of the Sub-Mariner sitting in his chair, which shows that Jack still had all of his abilities intact. Nobody could do single page characters like Jack. TJKC: Look at the musculature of the Sub-Mariner in panel four. JOE: I know what you’re thinking. He’s heavier here. Jack used to draw him much thinner than this; but 19

most of his figures were heavier by this time. TJKC: Look at the Sub-Mariner’s left shoulder and observe the black slash that goes from the chest to the shoulder. JOE: But that’s how Kirby is. I was aware of that at the time; same with the slashes under it on the arm. They don’t work like real muscles, they’re just expressions of muscles. TJKC: True, but that slash I mentioned really flattens out the spatial relationship between the chest and arm. I suppose it doesn’t matter because it still looks active and alive; but you’d change that today, wouldn’t you? JOE: I sure would; both that and the musculature on the arms. I really liked doing the Sub-Mariner and the underwater scenes. The city of Atlantis with the great stonework and the fish swimming around—it was very visual stuff. TJKC: There was a time when the original art size of the pages were reduced from 12" x 18" to 10" x 15". I think that hurt Jack’s work because he had less space to work in. I think his figure work wasn’t quite the same either. JOE: That’s right. Every panel Jack drew looked like a splash page, and losing that space hampered his compositions. He wasn’t the Kirby of “old” after that. I know it was an economical move to go to the smaller size, but I didn’t like it. TJKC: I imagine that the smaller area caused you to use more pen work than before. JOE: It did. I didn’t have a problem adjusting to the size, in terms of what kind of thick-&-thin lines I’d use. I used to do a lot more with the brush when we used the bigger size. It slowed me down a little, even though I had less space to cover, because I had to make smaller lines. It takes longer to ink with a pen than it does a brush. TJKC: I know you got the entire story at once. Did you read the story because you started inking?

JOE: I may have early on, but after a while, I don’t think I did. I never saw the collage pages that Jack did either [above]. If I had to ink something that went on that page, Marvel would pay the full page rate, even if it was just for one figure. I never cared for those collage pages because I thought they were a visual detraction from the story; and they didn’t print very well, either. I always felt they’d have looked better if Jack had just drawn it. TJKC: The last big project you did with Jack was the Silver Surfer graphic novel in 1978. What do you remember about it? JOE: John Verpoorten, who was the production manager at Marvel, called me and said, “Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are doing a Silver Surfer graphic novel and they’d like you to ink it. Are you interested?” I said, “I’d love to so long as I get credit on the splash page with Jack and Stan.” John promised me that they would do that. When I got the penciled pages from Jack, the credits read, “Stan Lee and Jack Kirby present the Silver Surfer,” or words to that effect. I inked the whole book, saving the splash for last. I always did that. I felt the splash was the most important page inside the book. By doing it after I’ve had the whole book to get the energy going, I felt I’d do my best inking there [see splash, next page]. So, under the credits, I wrote in pencil, “Inked by Joe Sinnott.” When the book came out, I saw that my credit wasn’t there. On the last page of the book, they listed the colorist, letterer, and me, the inker. I wasn’t happy about that. {Editor’s Note: As you can see from the pencil photocopy on the next page, Jack wasn’t the one who penciled-in the credits on the splash before Joe received it. In fact, Jack’s handwriting isn’t evident anywhere on the pencils for that book, as you’ll see in our special feature on the Surfer graphic novel next issue.] We did some nice pages in that book, but it wasn’t Jack’s best work. I felt I contributed quite a bit to the art and my name should have been on the splash page. The pencils were even simpler than they were on Jack’s last issue of Fantastic Four, but it was done well and was a slick interpretation. 20

TJKC: Well, I thought the story was kind of lame, too. Let’s take a look at this Silver Star drawing that you did for Anything Goes #3 [right]. There’s all kinds of problems with this piece. JOE: I know. As you know, Jack’s work was never realistic, but this goes beyond what he used to do. Everything was out of whack. When I saw this, I wondered if it was intentional. His figures got very stiff and even more simplified. I know he had health problems by this time and I think it shows here. I stayed truer to Jack’s pencils on this, more so than on anything else I ever inked of his. I never did rocks like that; I didn’t even put in the dots or cracks in the stone as I always did. I duplicated his pencils pretty closely, though I did a slight bit of work on Silver Star’s face. TJKC: How does it feel when you hear people say that they can’t think of Fantastic Four without thinking of your work, no matter who the penciler was? JOE: I appreciate that and am grateful for the thought. I’m glad I was a part of the glory days of the FF. I humbly feel that the work Jack and I did was special, right up until the end. When Jack left the book, I felt nobody would replace Kirby. There were some great pencilers later on, but so much of what Kirby could have done was left undone. I know he went to DC and created more characters, but they weren’t the Fantastic Four. TJKC: I know you feel that the Fantastic Four was Jack’s greatest achievement in comics, but would you have liked to ink him on Thor, too? JOE: Oh, yeah. I had so much fun doing the Treasure Chest work and it gave me the greatest satisfaction; but it would have been nice to have inked Jack’s Thor work. Thor is my second favorite character of Jack’s. I must say that Jack was the easiest person I ever inked. He drew big scenes with big panels, which made it easier than doing a bunch of small panels. Everything was big, bold and graphic and we were in tune with each other. Those were great days. ★

Mark evanier

Jack F.A.Q.s

A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby by Mark Evanier ll those monologue jokes were wrong: Al Gore never actually claimed to have invented the Internet; but if he had invented it, he’d deserve a large round of thanks from comic book fans. Our fandom and the World Wide Web were practically made for one another. I mean, we’re all over it. I can’t do a Google search on a non-comic topic without one of the first hits leading me to some site about comics... often, mine. Mine, in case you’ve never been there, is www.POVonline.com There—and all throughout cyberspace—you’ll find pieces about Jack Kirby, The Man and The Legend. Alas, I often find myself in the realm of Jack Kirby, The Myth. A rather startling number of untrue or semi-true “facts” have been promulgated about Kirby, and I thought this might be a dandy place to debunk the ones that warrant debunking, and to clarify the ones with some kernel of truth to them. I did a search of my hard disk archives... thousands upon thousands of messages I’ve downloaded since I obtained my first modem (this was back in the days of

2400 baud) and began connecting to computer bulletin boards. Many times, I responded to these urban and urbane legends but many times, I didn’t bother, or didn’t see them until it was way too late. Here’s a sampling: (next page) Jack may not have drawn the first Iron Man story, but he did design his initial armor, and did a pretty fair job of rendering his more modern attire on these pencils from the cover of Iron Man #92 (Oct. 1976). Iron Man, Melter TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

“Jack Kirby sued Marvel Comics.” False. Though Jack occasionally threatened to sue Marvel— often in response to someone there threatening him—at no time did he ever file a suit or come particularly close to it. The one time he was seriously considering it, he met with a few lawyers and decided that neither his health nor wallet could withstand a lawsuit that might have taken ten years and cost a fortune. “When Martin Goodman (owner of Marvel Comics) sold the company to Perfect Film and Chemical Corporation, Kirby and some of the other artists soaked Goodman for big bucks to sign releases on the characters they’d worked on so he could complete the sale.” False. This story was circulated during Jack’s infamous battle with Marvel Comics over the return of his original artwork. A Marvel editor was quoted in some sources as spreading it, and claiming Stan Lee had told him that. Stan told me he absolutely

never said or heard of such a thing, and the editor in question recently claimed to me he’d either been misquoted or misinformed—I’m not sure which. Whatever, he no longer believes it, and there is no evidence in Kirby’s files of any such soaking and apparently none in Marvel’s, either. “Jack conceived The New Gods while he was doing Thor at Marvel. He wanted to build to a big epic in the Thor comic and do ‘Ragnarok’ and kill off Thor, Odin, Loki and all the rest. Then he would have launched New Gods in its place. Stan Lee vetoed the idea.” Mostly false. Jack did come up with the concept for New Gods while at Marvel but he never had any intention of doing it there. At the time, he had become convinced that Marvel was reneging on various promises to him of financial participation in characters he’d co-created. He therefore was not about to give them another idea unless there was a significant change in the way they did business. That did not happen so, as you can see, his last few years at Marvel were not as rich with new characters. Ideas were forever coming to him but he was saving them to offer DC or any other potential publisher that might emerge. “Jack Kirby designed Spider-Man’s costume.” False. Steve Ditko designed the distinctive costume we all know and love. Jack did claim to have presented the idea to Stan Lee of doing a hero named Spiderman (no hyphen) who walked on walls and had other spider-themed powers— a claim which Stan vociferously denies. But for all the things Jack did well, he was not great at being interviewed. He occasionally got carried away or confused. There was one interview where, without realizing what he was saying, he said he’d created Superman. Needless to say, he never really believed that but somehow, that’s what came out of his mouth. This kind of thing most often occurred when the topic veered near an instance where Jack felt he’d been undercredited and undercompensated, and Spider-Man was such a case. In at least one such conversation, he misspoke and claimed he’d designed the costume for the final version of Spider-Man. I’m guessing the gaffe had something to do with the fact that he did pencil the cover of Amazing Fantasy #15 with the first appearance of that costume. There were a number of cases where Jack designed a character on a cover, and then Don Heck or Dick Ayers or someone else drew the interior story, following his design. In this case, however, the cover was drawn after Stan had rejected one drawn wholly by Ditko. Jack knew that. And he also knew what it was like to have someone else claim credit for your ideas. So he very much regretted the error. “Jack Kirby was art director of Marvel in the Sixties.” False. Jack was apparently listed as such in an article in either Writer’s Digest or some similar magazine in the Sixties. A few reporters, penning stories about the phenomenon that was

Marvel also referred to him that way. In fact, he never had any sort of staff or office position during that period, and Stan Lee held the title of art director along with that of editor. (Some of the artists who worked for Marvel then have since referred to Sol Brodsky as the art director. Brodsky certainly filled many of the functions that one normally associates with that title, but if he ever actually held it, it was only for a brief time.) “Jack Kirby turned down an offer to be Stan’s co-editor or some other editorial position.”

Somewhat false. Jack maintained that he never received any sort of formal proposal, and that the few casual discussions of a staff job were—in his words—“...lousy offers to take the train into town every day to do more work for less money.” I have no idea what the terms were, or how seriously they were tendered, but that’s what Jack believed. My guess is that if Jack had demanded such a position, he would have gotten it, though it might well have been a lousy offer to take the train into town every day, etc; but I also think they’d have done everything in their power to talk him out of it.

Jack would not have been suited to any sort of art director position and it would have been a colossal waste of what he did best. “Jack laid out the first Iron Man story and the first Daredevil story.” False both times. The first Iron Man story was wholly drawn by Don Heck. The first Daredevil story was drawn mainly by Bill Everett. Steve Ditko and Sol Brodsky completed the inking, mostly by filling in backgrounds. Kirby aided Everett in some undetermined manner, though he definitely did not do full breakdowns. These falsehoods, I had a hand in spreading back in the early Seventies. At the time, Jack claimed to have laid out those stories and I repeated his claim in print—though not before checking with Heck who said, in effect, “Oh, yeah. I remember that. Jack did the layouts.” We all later realized he was mistaken. Soon after, I met Everett and found him to be equally confused. He initially confirmed it and then, when I told him I didn’t think it looked like Kirby layouts, he said, “Oh, I guess it wasn’t.” The confusion in these cases is, I think, understandable. Heck and Everett both did do work over Jack’s layouts; just not on those stories. Both also believed that Jack had contributed to the plots of those debut appearances—recollections that do not match those of Stan Lee. (Larry Lieber did the script for the first Iron Man story from a plot that Stan gave him.) Also, in both cases, Jack had already drawn the covers of those issues and done some amount of design work. He came up with the initial look of Iron Man’s armor and he seems to have participated in the design of Daredevil’s first costume. My suspicion, after interviewing both Kirby and Everett on the topic and getting only vague remembrances from each, is that Jack worked up a costume and Everett modified it—to what extent, we’ll probably never know. Everett did tell me that Jack had come up with the idea of Daredevil’s billy club. One of the things you have to keep in mind when researching this kind of thing, or evaluating conflicting accounts, is that you’re often dealing with people who have or had truly rotten memories. Jack’s was sporadic, at least when he felt he was speaking to the world on a convention panel or for an interview. He was a lot better in private conversations, especially with people he trusted. Stan almost brags about how poor his memory is, and Bill Everett had what we now politely term “alcohol-related problems” at the time of Daredevil #1. Further muddying up the 23

(below) Jack’s pencils for page 4 of “Toxl The World Killer,” which Mark scripted. (next page) Splash from Forever People #9, with Steve and Mark’s credit line.

memories on this one is the fact that Jack, in effect, drew the first page of that first Daredevil story. In the rush to get that seriouslylate book to press, there wasn’t time to complete Page One, so Stan had Sol Brodsky slap together a paste-up that employed Kirby’s cover drawing. You may note Artie Simek’s lettering on that one page, whereas Sam Rosen lettered the rest of the issue.

“Jack laid out the cover to such-and-such a comic.” Almost certainly false, whatever it is. Jack sometimes did layouts for interior stories drawn by others but I have never seen a verified case of him doing a cover layout and not proceeding to do the finished penciling. There were a few cases where Jack drew a cover and it was then revised by another artist such that another penciler’s style is apparent along with Jack’s. In these instances, a frequent mistake is to assume Jack did the layout and the other penciler finished the penciling; but that does not seem to have ever been the case.

The biggest question here is what else Jack did on the first Daredevil story. Everett volunteered to me that Jack had “helped him” though he wouldn’t—or more likely, couldn’t—elaborate on that. He just plain didn’t remember it well and in later years, apparently gave others who asked a wide range of answers. They ranged from Jack contributing only encouraging words to working out the entire plot with him. The 24

latter is what Jack recalled after he’d been corrected about actually doing the layouts. Stan says that’s not so, and he may be right. Or Everett may have sought out Kirby’s help without telling Lee. (Don Heck sometimes did that, as did Wally Wood.) So there’s another one of those “we may never know” questions.

“On the comics Jack wrote in the Seventies for DC and Marvel, someone else—probably Mark Evanier and/or Steve Sherman—secretly did a lot of the dialoguing.” False, and I’d really like to lay this one to rest here. Like most writers, Jack was sometimes subjected to rewrites— necessary or otherwise—by members of an editorial staff. There are pages here and there (including a large chunk in at least one of his Captain America and The Falcon stories) that contain lines he did not author; but leaving that kind of thing aside, neither I nor anyone was secretly assisting with the verbiage. I guess people hear that I was his assistant and, since they know me as a writer elsewhere, figure I must have been assisting with Kirby’s writing. Not really. My thenpartner Steve Sherman and I did help plot a few sequences here and there—tasks we both regarded as “busy work.” They were Jack’s way of giving us a little experience and a little money. At times, he hoped to eventually position us to write some comics he would edit and not draw. Kirby didn’t need our help, and didn’t use much of what we handed him. The pattern, every time this happened, was that he would read our script or outline and say, “This is great! Good job!” That was pretty much Jack’s reaction any time anyone showed him anything they’d done—an aspiring artist displaying his samples, for instance. I suspect that when he then went to draw our story, he had every intention of using most of it.

But then he’d start to find ways to improve on what he was given. His mind would start to wander— and remember, this was a man who had to give up driving a car because he’d forget he was driving and run off the road. One new plot-twist would lead him towards three others... and by the time he was done, he’d simply and perhaps unknowingly drawn a different, probably better plot. He often did that with his own ideas, winding up with a story that was light years from what he’d thought he was going to do. And, of course, Stan Lee has spoken many times of how he and Jack would agree on

the contents of a particular issue of Thor or Fantastic Four, and Jack would go home and return with 20 pages of something else—at least once, a whole issue of the wrong comic. The sum and total of my writing dialogue for Jack was one page in one issue of Mister Miracle, plus the script for “Toxl the World-Killer,” a story originally intended for Spirit World #2 but which ultimately ran in Weird Mystery Tales. Someone once cited that story as proof that Jack was willing to employ ghost writers but, in fact,

the omission of my credit was an accident that occurred in the DC offices. Jack was upset that his name was on it as sole author. (The credit was not 100% wrong. It was mainly his plot and, as editor, he did rewrite a few balloons.) I also did a script for “The Psychic Bloodhound,” another tale left homeless with the abrupt termination of Spirit World, but Jack used so little of what I wrote that I’ve never considered it my work. (“The Psychic Bloodhound,” by the way, was laid-out by Jack and finished by Mike Royer, instead of Mike inking the usual tight pencils. It was an experiment that no one thought worked too well and it ran with no credits at all.) Steve and I received some sort of unearned plot credit on Forever People #9 and #11. Jack asked us to help plot the Deadman storyline for #9 and #10. Again, this was “busy work,” though in this case, it was also because he didn’t particularly want to write a story involving Deadman. We devised and wrote up a storyline for both parts, and he claimed to like it but used only bits when he drew up and dialogued the first of the two issues. Then, two months later when he did the concluding issue, he completely forgot we’d even given him a plot—none of which would have fit now, anyway. It was understandable that he didn’t think to put us down in the credit box of #10. Steve and I didn’t feel entitled but his wife Roz noticed and informed him he’d shorted “the boys” a credit. Jack felt terrible so, to even things up, he put our names on #11—an issue that you had as much to do with as we did. We had only a little more to do with Jimmy Olsen #144— “A Big Thing in a Deep Scottish Lake,” which bears our names but probably shouldn’t. Jack was hoping he could stop working on Olsen, as it was a book he didn’t especially enjoy. At one point, he thought that if we started writing it and everyone liked our scripts, he could then suggest to DC that someone else draw it and he could just edit. He had us help with plots for a few issues—mostly, sequences involving the Newsboy Legion. Then, as the time approached to do #144, he told us we were ready to 25

solo; that we should work out a plot for a full issue we would write on our own. We did, and one Sunday, we talked it through with him and adjusted it to incorporate his suggestions and ideas. It was a story about the Loch Ness monster and I, being a devout scholar of Laurel and Hardy, suggested we model a character on Jimmy Finlayson, the squint-eyed actor who often acted as their foil. I brought Jack a still from Big Business, one of the better Laurel and Hardy shorts. He okayed all of this and asked us to have a full, finished script to him the next time we came out. In the meantime, he’d be doing an issue of New Gods. But as we’d talked through the plot with him, the Kirby imagination—an awesome, unstoppable force—had been engaged. On Monday as he finished his previous story, the New York office called and asked him, for schedule reasons, to do another Olsen before the next New Gods. With the Loch Ness plot still rebounding in his head, and forgetting that he’d sent us off to write a full script, he spent the rest of that week writing and drawing the Jimmy Olsen Loch Ness tale. He used the Finlaysonlike character we’d suggested and perhaps 50% of the plot we’d discussed, most of which was his, anyway. When we delivered our finished script about ten days after our previous visit, all three of us were surprised. The issue was already sitting there by his board, all drawn and dialogued and ready to ship. Jack, embarrassed, spent the next few weeks apologizing to us and saying, “I’ll make it up to you.”

Around this time, Jack decided that his future would not include many more issues of Jimmy Olsen. The New York office didn’t care for what he was doing, and he’d never felt comfortable doing a comic where he had to coordinate with so many others. So he abandoned the notion that he could position us as his replacements, which was fine with both Steve and myself. I think we kind of felt that if Jack Kirby couldn’t do an acceptable Olsen from 3000 miles away that would please DC, we couldn’t do one through him. I want to emphasize that we never for a second felt he was doing anything unethical or unkind, rewriting our material as he did, or putting our credits on the wrong stories. It was just the way Jack’s brilliant mind sometimes failed him on the minutiae of life. Later on, we collaborated with him on the plot for Kamandi #1 and again, through no fault of his, he received sole credit. To compensate, he stuck our names on #3—an issue we didn’t help out on at all. About that time, I left Jack. Steve later helped with and was credited with plot assists on a couple of projects, 26

and seems to have made more of a contribution on those; but the point of all this is that Jack did not really want us or anyone ghost-writing for him. Ever. Lastly for this topic, I should also mention another incident where I didn’t contribute anything: When Jack was doing The Hunger Dogs for DC, the company was not happy with his first version. Senior editor Joe Orlando was designated to approach Jack about revising it, and possibly allowing someone else to rewrite the material. Orlando, who was in a certain awe of Jack and fearful of offending him, phoned me for advice on how to raise the subject, and to ask if I’d be willing to do the rewrite, should Jack consent. I told him Jack would probably not be comfortable with any other writer and suggested he just approach him directly about revising the work himself. If Kirby asked me to help out, of course I would, but I didn’t see that happening. To my surprise—and a little horror—fanzines were soon reporting that I was busily rewriting The Hunger Dogs. That was never true, not even for a minute. (I didn’t even get around to reading it until years after it was published. I was quite glad that it was pure Kirby, undiluted by me or any other writer.) A few weeks after his call to me, Orlando flew out to California, went to Jack’s house and told him he felt the story was weak and confusing. Jack replied, “You’re right,” and said he could fix it if he had more pages. Joe said he’d arrange for that, and then he went and got into his trunks and jumped into the Kirbys’ swimming pool. Total time for the big confrontation he’d been dreading: About three minutes. And Jack did the rewrite/ expansion all by himself. “DC Comics took Jack’s graphic novel, The Hunger Dogs, and hacked it up, rearranging pieces and rewriting it without his permission. He was very unhappy with how it came out.” Almost completely false. Jack was not all that happy with the published version of The Hunger Dogs, but that was due to the nature of the project. DC’s editors made no changes on it without his assent. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, The Hunger Dogs was an impossible project. There was no earthly way Jack could have wrapped up his whole Fourth World saga in one slim volume. At the time, DC was doing some licensing of the Fourth World characters—toys of Orion, Darkseid and others—and was voluntarily paying Jack a royalty. In the spirit of their new relationship, they asked him to write and draw an ending to the saga. Because the company was treating him so well, and because so many fans were asking him for some closure to his epic, he agreed to try; but the task was impossible and there were other factors working against him, including the amount of time that had passed since he’d been immersed in that mythos. There was also the need to keep all the principal characters alive at the end for merchandising reasons, and the fact that Jack’s health was not the best then, either. He did the first version and, as described above, wound up expanding it. The patchwork nature of the project showed, I think. Jack never considered it completely successful, but that was not because of anything DC had done behind his back.

extant plot outlines and memos, and studied Jack’s famed marginal notes, I have come to the following conclusions. Some of the most “cosmic” elements in their work together (anyone reading this should know what we mean by that) were ideas from Mr. Lee, whereas some of the most human came from Mr. Kirby. It is very simple for us, as readers, to look at a scene where the Thing does something explosive and surreal, and then has a reflective moment, to think, “Ah, Kirby came up with the celestial concept, then Lee interjected the introspective thoughts.” Maybe— but it also happened the other way around. There’s a great story about George S. Kaufman and Moss Hart, who collaborated on many of the great plays of the last century. Kaufman was asked which lines in one of their works came from him and which came from Hart. He replied, “Look over the reviews. You’ll see many critics say of a certain joke, ‘This one is obviously Kaufman.’ Every single one of those lines came from Moss.” Anyone who has ever been involved in a writing partnership has experienced something of the sort. There are places in the Lee-Kirby body of work where due to research or to the interjection of some autobiographical nugget, you can say, “That’s Stan” or “Jack almost certainly came up with that.” In a few cases, such as the Silver Surfer, these two men with the rotten memories even recalled an act of creation in pretty much the same way; but most of the time you’re just guessing. I should also add that it is sometimes even difficult for the collaborators to separate Who Did What at the time, let alone years after the fact. One guy throws out the germ of an idea, another revamps it into what it eventually becomes... and each honestly believes the end product is largely (or wholly) his creation. There are specific characters and storylines where it can be

“At Marvel, Kirby contributed all the cosmic stuff to the Lee-Kirby collaborations and Lee put in all the personality.” Generally false, at least based on my research. After having grilled and worked with both men, examined 27

helped to get the show accepted. When the show went into production, Jack did a lot of drawing for it, working up additional designs for Thundarr’s world. Most of what he contributed to the show was on what are called “incidentals.” These are the characters and props that appear in only one episode. In each case, Jack did sketches which were then refined and usually simplified for animation purposes by the studio’s art staff. I should add that, shortly after Jack passed away, a prominent gent in the cartoon business published an article which caused Roz some grief. In it, he claimed that Jack Kirby was humiliated to find himself out of comics and working in the animation business; that the pay was a huge step down from his days drawing for Marvel; that he hated the work, etc. I confronted the author and told him he was full of Bandini and he immediately backed down, claiming he’d been misinformed, though he couldn’t say by whom. A retraction/correction was promised but it’s been around eight years now and I sure haven’t seen it. For the record, Jack was very happy with his stint at Ruby-Spears—or, at least, happier than he’d been in comics in a long time. The pay was better, the benefits (health insurance, vacations, etc.) were way better, and he felt he was being treated on a more professional, respectful basis. Moreover, after four decades of filling up comic book pages, he was excited with the challenges of a new form, a new industry and a wider array of creative challenges.

(above) Page 11 pencils from the new story in New Gods #6 (the 1984 reprint series). (next page) Thundarr promotional art by Jack. Inks by Alcala. Orion TM & ©2003 DC Comics. Thundarr, Janus TM & ©2003 Ruby-Spears.

said with some certainty that this idea was mainly Stan’s, or that that character was primarily a Kirby contribution; but for the most part, even they weren’t sure—so we shouldn’t be. “Jack designed all the characters in the TV show, Thundarr the Barbarian.” Misleading. The three main characters—Ariel, Ookla and Thundarr himself—were designed by Alex Toth. During the campaign to sell the show to ABC, the producers, Joe Ruby and Ken Spears, decided they needed additional artwork, and Toth was unavailable. Jack was hired and he did several large pieces of art (most of which were inked by Alfredo Alcala) and these

“Jack worked on the Sixties TV cartoon, Jonny Quest.” Spectacularly false. I don’t know how this one started but I’ve been asked about it a halfdozen times in the last few years. The Hanna-Barbera series Jonny Quest was created and designed by the late Doug Wildey. Jack was then 3000 miles away and probably didn’t watch the show, let alone contribute to it. Jack did absolutely no animation work between the time he left Max Fleischer Studios in 1936 and when he was hired in 1977 by H-B to help design a proposed Fantastic Four cartoon series. Comics he had drawn were adapted for the 1966 Marvel Super-Heroes cartoons and the first FF animated series, but Jack himself did not do any work on those shows. “Shortly before Kirby passed away, he and Stan Lee had a meeting and reconciled, burying all past differences.” Sadly, that is not true to the extent some fans seem to wish it was true. There were friendly encounters, but there was no sitting

down together, hashing out old differences and such. As any follower of Marvel lore knows, over the years, both Stan and Jack had occasional harsh words for one another. Things were said—generally in response to some perceived slight by the other— that I believe were regretted. The nature of his relationship with Stan fluctuated over the years, veering several times from cordial to hostile and back again to cordial. At the time of Jack’s death, it was cordial and Jack—who’d known for some time he was failing—had grown more philosophical about his entire life, turning loose of many regrets and lingering angers. He never wavered from his belief as to who had done what, nor from his conviction that he had been drastically undercompensated and undercredited, but he did not view Stan as the villain in any of that. After Jack passed away, Roz—who was virtually interchangeable with him on such matters—made it clear to all that she wished to focus on the positives, not the negatives. There were plenty of positives. Thinking about this, my mind drifts back to a party where Jack was present, but just barely. The body was there but the spirit was punchy from the Chemotherapy he was then undergoing. Anyone who has witnessed what that can do to a person will understand. Jack’s quirky manner of speaking—leaping rapidly from thought to thought with no visible

connection spanning the breach—had always been charming and, in its way, thought-provoking. That night, it was slow and tortured, and he was straining to utter sentences that made sense to him, let alone those gathering around. The first thoughts he provoked in all of us were of sadness. But Kirby’s brilliant mind rarely failed him, and the wisdom would usually find its way to the surface, even if it didn’t always take the most direct route. In a private moment, he did make it clear, in terms I really shouldn’t attempt to quote, that he was a very happy, contented man. The occasion was a party celebrating his 50 years of perfect marital partnership with Roz, which was surely the greatest reward in a life of many. It was one of the last times I saw him and it’s the way I choose to remember him: At peace, proud of his life and career, and certainly not mad at anyone. Next question? ★

Now shipping is Comic Books & Other Necessities of Life, the first collection of the best of Mark’s POV columns, plus new ones, complete with illos by Sergio Aragonés. And coming in June is Wertham Was Right!, a second volume of POV columns, with more new material and Aragonés art! Each book is $17 postpaid in the US (add $2 each for Canada, or elsewhere $3 each for Surface Mail, or $7 each for Airmail). We accept check or money order (in US funds o a US bank), or Visa or Mastercard at: TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, or order online at: www.twomorrows.com

Mark Evanier welcomes your Kirby Questions (and has answers to many, as well as lots of non-Kirby stuff) over on his website, www.POVonline.com, by e-mail at: me@evanier.com, or mail your questions to: 5850 W. 3rd St., #367 Los Angeles, CA 90036 29

Adam M c Govern Know of some Kirby-inspired work that should be covered here? Send to:

As A Genre

Adam McGovern PO Box 257 Mt. Tabor, NJ 07878

A regular feature examining Kirby-inspired work, by Adam McGovern

FAR AFIELD (this page, right) P. Craig Russell (next issue’s back cover inker) does a dandy job on the Darkseid portrait for this cover of DC’s Spectre #19. (this page, bottom left) The Ballad of Utopia is an ode to Frazetta with some somber strains of Simon & Kirby. (this page, bottom right) Shadows of Kirby crash the Knights of the Dinner Table’s banquet. (next page, top) Monster Magnet sing to praise Kirby and to bury him. (next page, bottom) Captain America: Red, White & Blue: The legacy continues, but which one?

Spectre, Darkseid TM & ©2003 DC Comics. Ballad of Utopia ©2003 Barry Buchanan (artwork ©2003 Mike Hoffman). Knights of the Dinner Table TM and ©2003 Kenzer and Company. Captain America TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

his issue’s harvest of Kirby-influence sightings ranges across fields often foreign to our subject— from the movie-review page to the rock arena—and kinds of comics seldom covered here, with a bonus bumper-crop of complaint about credit…

No Ghost of Its Former Self This column usually deals with applications of the Kirby style, but particularly thoughtful treatments of his too-often-trivialized characters and concepts (like the entire run of Walter Simonson’s matchless Orion series) also merit mention. A recent guest issue of DC’s The Spectre written by John Ostrander and illustrated by the book’s then-current art team of Norm Breyfogle and Dennis Janke well qualified (along with writer J.M. DeMatteis’ regular run) for that rare but widening genre which can only be called the philosophical thriller (Alan Moore and J. H. Williams III’s Promethea being another prominent example). Issue #19 found the spiritual hero traveling between the New Gods’ Apokolips and New Genesis in an ode to ambiguity which did a good job of portraying the mystifying moral shadings of Kirby’s unfathomable divinities, not to mention depicting the title character penetrating the enigmatic Source in an inventive manner which settled no simple questions or gave anything away about this deliberately vague yet durably intriguing narrative device. Few writers use Kirby’s Fourth World creations as embodiments of elusive and important ideas rather than stock celestial superfriends, and this succinct parable about omnipotent beings in an abject search for meaning got to the essence of Kirby’s intentions refreshingly. (And if you never thought you’d live to see the ultra-elegant P. Craig Russell adapt his style to Kirby’s metallic/mineral treatment of the humanoid form, consider his Darkseid portrait for the same issue’s front cover, which, come to think of it, does fall within the more usual scope of our column.)

Here Come the Cavalries There was nary a genre the King didn’t try his hand at (if indeed not invent) at one time or another, so why not some homages to his legacy in a Gothic Western comic and a Dungeons & Dragons spoof? That’s what we’ve seen in recent issues of Barry Buchanan and Mike Hoffman’s The Ballad of Utopia and Mark Plemmons and Brendon & Brian Fraim’s Knights of the Dinner Table. The fifth and sixth issues of Buchanan and Hoffman’s remarkably well-written indie (www.blackdaze.com) feature some ominous echoes of Simon & Kirby’s Boys’ Ranch concerning one “Kurtzberg Juvenile Workcamp for Betterment and Reform,” though the creators’ macabre take on the Old West is closer to late Clint Eastwood than mid-period Kirby, and the art might be more at home in a “Frazetta As a Genre” column—jes’ goes ta show how many territories the Kirby spread borders, pardner. Meanwhile, back at the castle, Plemmons, Fraim and Fraim’s clever continuing storybook of merry slaughter—a tie-in to Kenzer and Company’s extensive line of role-playing games (www.kenzerco.com)—features, in its 14th issue, an image of three protagonists who in silhouette bear a remarkable resemblance to Orion, Oberon and—well, Orion and Oberon, with Kirbyesque choreography and foreshortening a clear match in each case. The portrait is mock-credited to one “Kack Jirby,” a perfectly good name for a sorcerer or barbarian, I’m sure, and an extra reminder that this book’s Medievalstyle artisans know all about paying tribute to royalty. 30

The King of Rock Belated thanks to reader Tom Ortega for bringing to our attention the alienation anthem “Melt” by eggheadbanging alternametal band Monster Magnet. This lament of consumerism and political self-delusion opens with the lines “I was thinking how the world should’ve cried/On the day Jack Kirby died…” We at TJKC applaud the band’s sense of priorities, and encourage everyone who isn’t already Mr. Ortega to immediately dial up a full sound-file of the song at the band’s website (www.monstermagnet.net/music). Rest assured that between this touching tribute and other pulp-friendly memorials to what might have been, including the imaginary cult soundtrack “Goliath and the Vampires,” you may never get to our next paragraph...

The Vault of Euphemisms: Honorable Mentions In our perennial compendium of Kirby almost-credits by over-cautious corporations, we must pause to give special recognition to the Village Voice’s J. Hoberman, one the most witty and insightful film critics working today. He regularly weaves Kirby into the grand scheme of 20th century pop culture, be it his noting of the first X-Men film’s debt to “the great Jack Kirby” or his tracing the influence of Fritz Lang’s groundbreaking urban design and sense of spectacle in Metropolis upon “Frankenstein and Flash Gordon, Leni Riefenstahl and Stanley Kubrick, Star Wars and Apocalypse Now, and the complete works of comic-book artist Jack Kirby,” with probably some other praises I’m missing. It’s reassuring to realize how knowledge of the Kirby contribution is kept alive in such intelligent quarters, though as usual this appreciation comes most fully in fields other than the one that wouldn’t exist without him. Back in actual comic books, we’ve recently seen a Black Panther issue “Dedicated to the work and memory of the one true King, Jack Kirby.” The loving and lengthy tribute to Kirby’s Panther run found on that mag’s pages (as reported here in several recent issues) makes the sincerity of the sentiment unassailable; ditto for the “Stan Lee and Jack Kirby: Imaginauts” line in the credits of Fantastic Four Vol. 3 #60—not to mention the reference to that pair as “FF creators” in the same issue’s text page. But still no regular residence for a “created by” line across Marvel’s pertinent publications. Which brings us to Captain America: Red, White & Blue, a rushed and lackluster hardcover collection whose only recommendable new stories are two fine tales by Darco Macan & Bruce Timm and Karl Bollers & Dean Haspiel (for a sterling all-star summary of Cap’s career and meaning, hit the backissue bins for the much slimmer and cheaper Captain America Vol. 3 #50). In R,W&B we find a backpage homage to Kirby among many of the Cap creator stable’s “unsung soldiers.” I’ll say. Is there anyone left at Marvel outside its legal department who isn’t anxious to elevate the medium by acknowledging its architects in the same way literature, movies and TV do? The company has otherwise elevated its quality so strongly in the past several years that this reluctance remains its last predictable storyline. Isn’t the twist ending overdue? ★

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTION Fantagraphics delivers the definitive Kirby tome to date • A review by Adam McGovern Fantagraphics, the premier purveyor of sophisticated comics literature (Love and Rockets, Ghost World, Jimmy Corrigan), has recently found further success with the supreme supplier of conventional costumed blockbusters. Compiled from essays, interviews and other articles in the company’s flagship fanzine from the late 1960s to the present, The Comics Journal Library, Volume One: Jack Kirby is one of Fantagraphics’ alltime fastest sellers, and will stand as the must-have compendium for Kirby fans at least until Mark Evanier’s epic biography breaks a bookstore shelf near you. A well-selected section of interviews starts the book off, and gives a pithy sketch of the master artist: fully aware of the entertainment nature of his work while fully convinced and proud of its legitimacy as a people’s artform; “uneducated” in the rarified formal sense but voraciously, tirelessly self-educated in the scientific discoveries and social evolutions of his lifetime. This self-portrait is followed by several essayists’ turn at the drawing board. Just as Kirby’s work could be a mixed bag of visionary inspiration and deadline-haunted commercial necessity, Kirby criticism can be a mixed bag of populist analysis, less careful childhood enthusiasms, and self-conscious solemnity to try and balance the two. The uncertainty of whether and why you’re supposed to care about and find meaning in the comics medium—dealt with insightfully enough in an Introduction by Fantagraphics Publisher Gary Groth which admonishes both fanboy slobs and high-art snobs—causes some faltering on the part of Kirby’s chroniclers, in our own magazine and no less in this book. True to its title metaphor, reading the essay “The Monument Carver’s Stone” by Christopher Brayshaw takes some chipping away at elementary belaborings of art fundamentals (perspective, symmetrical composition, etc.) to get to a truly inspired interpretation of the craggily-rendered late Kirby hero as a kind of living headstone striving against the currents of mortality (not to mention Brayshaw’s assertion of the unloved 2001 as Kirby’s fantasy masterpiece, an admirably audacious proposal that the essayist defends well). Similarly, “What Jack Kirby Did” by R.C. Harvey, a piece from 1994 praising the direct market as a haven for cost-effective creator freedom, makes bittersweet reading today, and it’s hard to imagine quintessential crowd-pleaser Kirby accepting the roundabout credit for it that Harvey bestows here. Kirby was more a prophet of the unorthodox formats the medium now needs to survive the direct market (i.e., mass-produced trade paperbacks, which he envisioned for the Fourth World books three decades ago). However, the essay follows his populist lead overall, with a summary of comics history (and Kirby’s central place in it) which, while over-familiar from a longtime fan’s perspective, serves as an excellent jumping-on point for readers unfamiliar with the artform. On the other hand, the well-researched and richly articulated “Once and for All, Who Was the Author of Marvel?” by Earl Wells is all diamond and no rough, taking a subject which could easily descend into unilluminating partisanship (and in both our publications often has) and treating it with careful balance, insightful speculation, and a novel conclusion: that the Marvel years were more Stan Lee- than Jack Kirby-driven not because Kirby’s later solo stories were more morally one-dimensional, as is often asserted, but because grim war parables like The New Gods were actually more anti-establishment in their dim view of heroism than Lee’s idea of deeply flawed but dependably noble protagonists ever was. In reconciling the doominess of Kirby’s post-Marvel tales with the determination and thus essential optimism of their characters and creator, Wells manages to resolve the hallucinatory spectacle of Kirby’s classic “Glory Boat” into a theme of inevitable death yet inexorable evolution, in perhaps the most perceptive distillation of Kirby’s realistic but resolute philosophical essence I’ve ever read. After the analysis come the cold, hard facts, in a thorough section on Kirby’s mid-1980s battle to reclaim his original art from Marvel Comics without signing an onerous release form denying his creation of most Marvel characters and even his personal ownership of the artwork. For the most part, the information is set forth with a calm rationality that only accentuates the outrage of this early atrocity in the corporate intellectualproperty wars. The section’s centerpiece is an essay from Frank Miller which pulls no punches in its criticism of either Marvel or The Comics Journal itself (whose Kirby advocacy and frequent feuds are each legendary). The firm but friendly disagreement should serve as a handbook for future corporate combatants on how profound differences can be kept on a civil level if reason is put above self-interest. Visually, the book is lucidly and handsomely designed, as big as an old-time album cover and thus providing a suitable vista on which to display Kirby’s dynamic imagery. Though necessarily fragmented, it is the best single overview of that imagery yet collected, conveying the sweep of Kirby’s evolution and versatility in ways it is neither the job nor the ability of any individual issue of a tribute magazine to do. Full-page blowups of lone panels, in all their dot-screened pop-art glory, make a good case that Roy Lichtenstein was redundant, and not all “low culture” needs ironic distance and academic reworking to have its rough but sincere virtues appreciated. A brief gallery-within-a-gallery of Kirby’s sketches while serving overseas in WWII, some of them hyper-realistic portraiture, demonstrates that his later abstractions were the result of considered aesthetic choice and not careless overstimulation. Magazines like this one will always be invaluable for placing undiscovered parts of the vast mosaic of Kirby’s seemingly boundless creative output; but in perfect sync with its subject, The Comics Journal Library, Volume One: Jack Kirby is the best presentation yet of the big picture. ★ [Fantagraphics Books, 7563 Lake City Way NE, Seattle, WA 98115; 800-657-1100; www.fantagraphics.com] 31

Gallery

Kirby's Greatest Hits! F

eel the pain! This issue, we pull no punches with an art gallery of pencils featuring some of Kirby’s most memorable zaps, hits, and explosions! Some are from hits (like Kamandi), some from misses (my affectionate favorite Dingbats of Danger Street), but all are packed with the power and velocity that are synonymous with Jack Kirby. Here’s the guide:

Page 32: Cover pencils to Marvel Double Feature #18 (Oct. 1976). That has to sting! Page 33: Page 5 to Atlas #1 (published in First Issue Special #1, April 1975), showing pure brute strength Kirby-style. Page 34: Page 18 from the never-published Dingbats of Danger Street #3 (1974). You can feel Jack flashing back to his days of fighting in gangs on the streets of New York (as seen in his autobiographical story “Street Code”). Page 35: Action-packed page 5 pencils from Our Fighting Forces #151 (Oct. 1974). This was Jack’s first Losers story, and no doubt this page is reminiscent of many of the WWII situations he found himself in. Page 36: The Bug dukes it out with lots of typical Kirby weaponry on page 17 from New Gods #10 (Aug. 1972). Page 37: Demon #2, page 7 (Oct. 1972). Check out the motion and momentum taking place on this page! Page 38: Page 10 from the story “Toxl The World Killer,” meant for Spirit World #2, and finally published in Weird Mystery Tales #2 (Oct. 1972). That last panel is so simple, yet so powerful. Page 39: Jack has a little fun at the Man of Steel’s expense in Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen #147, page 10 (March 1972). Pages 40-41: Two-page spread from Captain America Annual #3 (1976), featuring a bug-ugly alien getting his comeuppance. Page 42: Now that’s a punch! OMAC #6, page 5 (July 1975). Page 43: Kamandi #1, page 8 (Oct. 1972); more muted action due to poor little Kamandi being outclassed, but still one of the most memorable pages in the issue. Did you notice there were several page fives here? I guess the story flow in Jack’s mind, at least at DC in the 1970s, tended to call for a big BANG around page 5. Let’s hear it for mindless violence the Kirby way!

Obscura

Barry Forshaw

Want inexpensive reprints of this issue’s selections? As the name implies, DC’s Young Romance #1 Millennium Edition was released in 2000, so should be easily found in back issue bins. It’s a much less expensive alternative to purchasing the original 1947 edition. ©2003 DC Comics

Adventures of the Fly #2’s cover features a pretty blatant swipe from Captain America #7, if copying yourself can be considered swiping. To date, “Marco’s Eyes” was reprinted in the 1979 Archie’s Super-Hero Special #1, and “The Master of Junk-RiLa” was reprinted in Blue Ribbon Comics, Vol. 2, #1 (Nov. 1983). Fly ©1959 Archie Publications Captain America TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

A new regular column focusing on Kirby’s least known work, by Barry Forshaw

here is much argument about which book inaugurated the Silver Age of Comics. Was it the revamped Schwartz/Kanigher/Infantino Flash? The “J’onn J’onzz” back-up features? There are even those who make claims for the first solo outing for Superman’s girl friend, Lois Lane. Similarly, which was the first real horror title? Avon’s Eerie? Or the longer-running Richard Hughes/ACG winner, Adventures into the Unknown? But there is absolutely no argument about which was the first comic to create the much-condescended-to romance genre. And Jack Kirby, most famous for his massively thewed super-heroes, is one of the unlikely midwives. Having said that, such a distinction is something of a poisoned chalice. While Simon & Kirby’s Young Romance for Prize spawned a million imitations, it also gave rise to a genre which (page for page) produced more terrible art and writing than just about any other branch of comics you might name. Not so, needless to say, where Simon & Kirby were concerned. It is, in fact, a shame that only the basic concept of banal love and romance scenarios was lifted by the many imitators, as there are levels of sophistication and invention found in some of the stories and art in the first issue of Young Romance that was quickly to vanish from the genre (the aforementioned Richard Hughes came up with the odd off-the-wall tale in ACG’s shot at the genre, Confessions of the Lovelorn, but most issues of that mag were as worthless as anything in the genre). Of course, the only real reason to pick up DC’s handsome reprints (in their Millennium Edition series) of this groundbreaking book is for Kirby’s appearances. Fans who only know his work post-Fantastic Four may need to apply themselves, but the effort is worthwhile. A pedestrian Kirby cover (adorned with the come-on tagline ‘Designed for more adult readers of comics’, promising carnal pleasures that never materialize) heads up a brace of very different stories. “I Was A PickUp” has some solid art by Kirby looking very much like his contemporaneous work for Black Magic. The usual sense of design is always paramount, and the burst of action on page 8 shows the dynamism that informed his Captain America work of a few years earlier. The story, though, is nothing to write home about; neither is that of the second tale, an uninteresting piece illustrated by Bill Draut. The next piece, “Misguided Heart,” has a conventional romance narrative (the heroine has to choose between a man who is perfect for her and one who, though handsome, is obviously unsuited... yawn), but is enlivened by Kirby’s imaginative work. Another Bill Draut tale, “The Plight of the Suspicious Bride” (awful titles are par for the course in romance comics), has the rather macabre device of being seen from inside

the skull of the protagonist, but the final piece, “Young Hearts Sing a Summer Love Song,” delivers some fine Kirby art, with the elegance that he lost interest in as the Marvel age beckoned. Now don’t for a second think that Young Romance represents Kirby at his best: at most, this is of academic interest (unless you’re someone who is turned on by the very notion of romance), but for anyone interested in the artist (and if you’re reading this, that’s you), it’s certainly worth dipping into. Much more interesting Kirby fare may be found in the second issue of The Fly (Archie, 1959), although (like all Simon & Kirby productions of the period) it’s a bit of a pick-and-mix affair, with several artists pitching in; but as these craftsmen are of the order of Kirby and Al Williamson, who cares? The cover actually has more of Joe Simon’s input than most of the team’s collaborations: The Fly swings towards a malevolent leprechaun, who is riding a building-smashing robot. This tale, “Tim O’Casey’s Wrecking Crew,” revives the sinister leprechaun figure from Black Magic’s “Nasty Little Man,” and is satisfyingly whimsical (although why a leprechaun should use such a high-tech menace as a robot crew is never explained), but the tale is a mélange of different artists’ work: the splash panel is a lively Kirby piece, but the story itself is drawn by Paul Reinman in his usual pleasant (if unexceptional) style. The second piece, “One of Our Skyscrapers Is Missing,” is a smooth Al Williamson job, but (after a nice two-page strip promoting the concurrent The Double Life of Private Strong) the King triumphantly blazes in with “Marco’s Eyes,” set off with one of his beloved two-page spreads. The Fly dodges machine gun fusillades as he shrugs off the rays from the massive, distended eyes of a villainous hypnotist on a hoarding; in the meantime, hypnotized crowds struggle toward the poster, proffering jewels and money (Kirby’s double-page spreads are always value for money). For the rest of the issue, Kirby erases the contributions of his fellow artists with some dynamic, brilliantly designed storytelling, including another splendidly over-the top villain, The Junk Man. The only problem with reading these few Fly issues (as with his equally brief stint on Private Strong/The Shield and Race for the Moon) is how little of this wonderful stuff there is. Kirby’s gadabout career trajectory often meant that artistic gems were presented to us all too briefly before being consigned to lesser talents. If you’re a real Kirby enthusiast, you owe it to yourself to seek out his late Fifties work—it’s often more individual than his later Marvel work, and that’s saying something! ★

Inner View

An Afternoon With Jack (and a lifetime of memories) Written and transcribed by Jerry Boyd

(above) The flyer that announced Jack’s appearance, and (right) Jack with fan Jordan Neri, Jr. (center) Patriotic house ad by Carl Burgos and Kirby, from Marvel Mystery #19 (May 1941). (below) Kirby art from the 1978 San Diego Con program book. Human Torch, Capt. America TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc. Capt. Glory, San Diego art TM & ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate.

was Captain America. [laughter]

The flyers announcing the impending comics store visit of Jack Kirby had been circulating in our area for about a month. The news seemed almost too good to be true. The King, whose convention appearances had by then been largely limited to San Diego, was actually coming to our area— Palo Alto, California! Palo Alto’s a beautiful little place, though certainly not as large or as internationally-known as the isle of Manhattan, Chicago, San Diego, or even Stanford University (which it borders), so we fans of sequential art felt especially lucky/ honored/blessed that Jack was coming to our little neck of the woods. Kirby was on tour to promote The Art of Jack Kirby. With him would be his lovely wife Rosalind and the book’s author, Ray Wyman, Jr. Customers who regularly patronized the store were told the ground rules: Mr. Kirby and Mr. Wyman would first talk about the book. Pre-signed copies would then be sold. The King would then be available for as many questions and comments as the remaining time allowed. He wouldn’t be signing anything during the two-hour stop but he and Roz would graciously take books with them, autograph them, and mail them back to the store within a reasonable period of time. The store managers put it as delicately as they could: Kirby was not in the best of health. He just wasn’t up to signing stacks of comics anymore (and you know there would’ve been plenty). He had “good days” and “bad days.” (Having lost my grandparents in the two years prior to this 1993 meeting, I completely understood. Still, to my comic-collecting buddies and me, this was unsettling news. This giant’s work was filled with power and vitality. How could the man not be the same?) Still, the good news was that he was coming and he’d still sign our treasures, albeit sometime later. About thirty or so fans greeted our king, queen, and Mr. Wyman on a beautiful Spring Sunday. Jack shared war stories, answered questions on all subjects, smiled and posed for snapshots, displayed a packed portfolio of stunning originals (which was open for perusal during his entire talk), and charmed us to the collective core of our hearts. The following is a transcription of fans’ questions and comments, with Kirby’s responses and observations that came from taped recordings made that day. (Since it’s nigh-unto impossible to be in the company of such a talented man without the experience dredging up memories of great comics and fun-filled times, I beg the readers’ indulgence as I share a few of the great moments Jack gave me.) In addition, I included a few Kirbyrelated comments from a few professionals. Enjoy!

FAN: Wasn’t that a little dangerous, though? [more laughter] KIRBY: [chuckling] It was. I had these Nazis waiting for me up on Broadway. I came to deliver my work. I used to think like Captain America. I was stupid, I thought I was a hero. These eight guys— Nazis—were after me, and I’m delivering my work to Marvel. “Well, we’re going to beat the crap out of you and we’ll wait for you downstairs.” So I said, “Alright, we can go down there. Don’t go away. Wait for me, I’ll be right down.” I used to think that way, y’know. They would’ve smeared the heck out of me; but when I came down they weren’t there; but they used to have big meetings... Madison Square Garden. Thousands of ’em. Seig Heil. [Jack, caught up in the memory of the moment, sadly throws his right arm up in a mock Nazi salute.] Roosevelt took care of all of ’em. He drafted them. [laughs] They sent ’em down South to basic training, and the Southerners beat the crap out of them. They turned them into Americans. [laughter] So, uh... those were very turbulent things... and everybody gave me a hard time.

FAN: Is Doctor Doom your favorite villain or Darkseid? KIRBY: No... I liked all the characters. In fact, I

FAN: Must’ve been also an audience there because of the attractive graphics. KIRBY: Well, all the guys liked girls. [laughs] We got a very good

FAN: I think my favorite cover of yours was Fantastic Four #100. That one really gripped me. KIRBY: That was a great exercise. I really loved ’em [the FF]. [Someone directs Jack’s attention to a romance comic page in his portfolio.] I used to pass these newspaper stands and I never paid any notice to them because they were just a familiar thing. All they had on the newsstands were these pulps—love, love, love, love, love. [laughs] So you see it every day and you don’t think about it, and suddenly I felt, gee, there are no love comics. There are love magazines. So Joe Simon and I were the first ones to do this type of thing. FAN: So they created profits? KIRBY: Very good. They sold very well.

(above) This “Monster Truck” (date not known, but probably done in the late 1970s for animation) shows the type of machinery Jack could render. ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate. (below) Kirby cover to Rawhide Kid #34 (June 1963). (bottom right) Infant Terrible pin-up from FF Annual #2 (1964). (next page) Ditko SpiderMan drawing, and two examples of Jack Davis’ work on characters often associated with Kirby. Rawhide Kid, Two-Gun Kid, Infant Terrible, Spider-Man TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc. Fly TM & ©2003 Archie Publ., Inc.

reaction to it. We did Young Romance and My Date. It’s always been a lot of fun discovering new ways to sell comics. FAN: [Referring to Strange World of Your Dreams and Black Magic covers] Did you work on the titles, also? KIRBY: Yes. Yes. And you could make stories based on the interpretations of dreams. MRS. KIRBY: [Signaling her husband to stop and pose] Jack! Jack! [Kirby turns to his left and smiles. We all laugh. They had the routine down pat. A fan snaps a picture of the King.] KIRBY: Even my wife... [laughs] [Kirby points to a drawing of machinery.] This was the beginning of electronics. Remember, I’m older than you guys. I can remember the period when they talked about electrons, magnetic repulsion, and all that kind of stuff. That was very prevalent. They began sending up spaceships... and I got a phone call from NASA one time. The guy says, “Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong are in training and we’d like you to come down and you can go over the training.” I said okay. I lived in Long Island then and I said, “Okay, but can I go up with them?” [lots of laughter] I swear, I look back on those days with a horror. Because if I’d gone up... I would’ve been screaming all the way. Anyway, I says, “Can I go up with these guys?” And he says, “No, you can’t go.” So I said, “All right, I’m not coming down to your office.” I would do anything my heroes would do. It was just that kind of thing. That’s the way people thought. FAN: Is that the way you picked powers for your heroes, also—“I wish I could do that”? KIRBY: Yes. I was them. FAN: Which hero do you feel you relate to most? KIRBY: All of them. FAN: Really? KIRBY: Yeah. These [characters] are my own feelings. At other times, of course, Kirby admitted to feeling closer to the Thing, Cap, Orion, and Sgt. Fury than others. However, he may have felt that by favoring one, he was slighting others. He knew that Devil Dinosaur fans felt as strongly about that book as Kamandi and Thor fans felt about theirs. Forrest J. Ackerman, the wonderful editor of Famous Monsters of Filmland, knew this too and that’s why he never knocked any of the films and television shows his magazine covered. It’s a little thing called professionalism.

Stan Lee was in on the secret, also. I saw him in ’87 and asked, “Who’s the fastest gun in the West—Kid Colt, Two-Gun, or Rawhide?” Stan smiled and asked me, “Who do you think is the fastest?” Caught off guard, I blurted out, “Wow. Well, I guess the Rawhide Kid did the most with his guns.” (I’m sure Kirby’s art had something to do with my partiality.) “Rawhide it is then,” Stan concluded with another smile. That’s why it was so rare when one Marvel hero defeated another. Each of us has a favorite and no one wants to see his hero slighted. Rawhide Kid #33 was a great example of that notion for me. It was Jack Davis’ first issue, following Kirby’s departure. The Kid beat Jesse James and his gang single-handedly, but he actually threw the fight in the final story to convince a young girl an outlaw wasn’t good marrying material. I was too young to grasp the subtlety and I was furious! My new hero had been slighted! It would take some time but Stan and Jack would reaffirm “true heroism” in many ways like that while satisfying many of their readers along the way. Professionalism. FAN: [Pointing to a space scene in Jack’s portfolio.] How did you get these white ones [stars]? Did you use stickers? KIRBY: This was my own type of effect when I wanted to picture space. I didn’t want to see it just as black emptiness. In fact, I have a collage at home which has spaceships on it, stars, and space things, y’know. Why did I do that? Some guy told me, “There’s nothing up there!” [laughter] and he says, “Where would you send a spaceship?!” and I says, “You must be kidding! Space is loaded with stuff!” So I did this collage to answer that guy. [Here, the King adds a mischievous smile.] I guess I’m kind of a contentious guy. [Jack flips over one of the large portfolio sheets to reveal a pinup of the “Infant Terrible,” an interesting oneshot menace he created for FF #24.] This is “Enfant Terrible” [Jack says it in French!] but he’s a space kid, y’know, and he has super powers... and if you get a bad space kid, boy... you’re in trouble! [laughs] He was an alien.

[At this point there was a pause as the King shook the hands of a few departing fans. A store assistant eased a number of us into a recognizable line. Jack pointed to a beautiful splash page depicting the giant ant, Krang, from Tales of Suspense #14.] KIRBY [continuing]: And this was what I used to have in my apartment when I was smaller! [We all missed this good joke, awed by the impressive pre-hero page.] FAN: Jack, were you the first comics artist to use a brush? KIRBY: No. The inkers... Milton Caniff, he used both a brush and a pen when he had to. Milton Caniff inspired me to draw, you know, and I just kept at it [sweeping his arm over two pages], and this is what the pages would look like. FAN: Did you originally create Spider-Man? KIRBY: Yes. FAN: I know you mentioned it in your book there. KIRBY: Yeah. Of course, I had to do so many strips I couldn’t do SpiderMan so we gave it to Steve Ditko and he made a “lifetime job” out of it. [Jack smiles broadly.] You couldn’t get him away from Spider-Man. He’d be at it night and day. He loved it. FAN: He did that costume? You did the first couple of covers... KIRBY: Yeah. He’s a very good man. FAN: What’s he like as a person? He’s doing some very odd stuff.... KIRBY: He’s very self-absorbed. He wouldn’t go out with girls or anything. He’d sit at a drawing board, day and night, and never leave it. He’s that kind of a guy. FAN: He finally got tired of drawing Spidey, didn’t he? He didn’t.... [Jack flips through his artwork in search of another piece to discuss.] KIRBY [broadly smiling]: Steve Ditko is not talkative like me! Well, Spider-Man is my character. I couldn’t draw everything and, in fact, I did the first Spider-Man cover...

Jack Davis Out West C

omics legend Jack Davis stands today as arguably the most versatile and famous of the lauded EC artists. His covers for Newsweek, TV Guide, Time, Ebony, as well as his numerous advertising projects have garnered this unique cartoonist much-deserved praise. In the late ’50s, however, Davis was just another talented artist looking for work amid the shrinking comics industry. He worked with Stan Lee on the Two-Gun Kid shortly before Kirby began his interior work on the title and took over The Rawhide Kid just after Kirby left it to devote more time to the then-new super-hero titles. Davis also put in a little time with Joe Simon. This phone interview was conducted by Jack’s friend, Lee de Broff, for TJKC on September 5, 2000. TJKC: You always loved drawing cowboys. After you did those early Indian pictures... with your parents’ help, why did you continue with your interest in Westerns? You’re from Georgia.... DAVIS: I think it was movies. We’d go up to the local theater every Saturday and you saw Ken Maynard, Buck Jones, and Hoot Gibson. There was not Roy Rogers or Gene Autry ’cause we didn’t like them because they had worn those tight pants and fancy boots and silver saddles and it looked like you couldn’t knock anybody out with those sissy clothes [laughs], but the old cowboys... speeded it up. I loved the cowboys and the older I get I like the more authentic movies even more: Shane, High Noon, or the other ones. TJKC: What is it about the cowboy life? Is it the pace of the cowboy’s life, or the horses? The outdoors? DAVIS: I think it’s the outdoors; men were men, y’know, and they rode horses and the whole thing... heroes looked like that.... TJKC: In Mad #9, you did “HAH! NOON!”(a terrific take-off on High Noon) and you did a great rifle story called “Betsy” [Two-Fisted Tales #39]. DAVIS: I wrote that myself.

FAN: Amazing Fantasy. KIRBY: Yeah, that’s how I gave it to Marvel.

TJKC: Would that be your favorite?

DC Comics featured beautiful material by regulars Russ Heath, Curt Swan, Infantino, Kubert, Giella, Kane, Anderson, and others in the early ’60s, but the dynamics of the art form (in my opinion) belonged to Kirby and Ditko over at the House of Ideas. The differences? The Marvel heroes and villains reveled in their powers, defied gravity with breathtaking leaps, flights, and graceful swings above Manhattan’s gray concrete skyline. They fought with passion, went “wild” from time to time, and improved on their own costumes, armor, and weaponry so that they’d have the edge in their next cataclysmic clash with their opposites. “Sturdy” Steve and “Jolly” Jack were the perfect graphic “directors” for “Smiling” Stan’s art “studio.” Even the products that came out of Marvel

DAVIS: No, I really enjoyed doing that one but I don’t have any favorites. I liked a lot of the stuff I’ve done. TJKC: You remember “Lone Stranger” [Mad #3 & #8]? DAVIS: Oh yeah, that was funny! That was Harvey [Kurtzman’s] writing! Anything that you could draw would be funny after that, but he’d just take off on the Lone Ranger and it’d be unbelievable. TJKC: The Westerns became popular on television.... DAVIS: I loved Gunsmoke and Rawhide! Clint Eastwood was on Rawhide and they called him “Rowdy”... TJKC: Rowdy Yates. In the early ’60s you returned to Marvel, after doing the Two-Gun Kid for Atlas [see Davis cover of #45 above], you took over The Rawhide Kid. Jack Kirby had just left that title.

DAVIS: I don’t remember too much about it but I know I did it because cowboys came easy and it was easy to do, but the stories were corny. TJKC: This guy Kirby was and is very popular. DAVIS: I never met him. TJKC: Had you ever heard of him? DAVIS: Oh, yeah! I admired his work. It was Simon & Kirby. One inked and one penciled, I’ve forgotten now, and they turned out brilliant, great stuff. TJKC: Going back to the Rawhide Kid and Stan Lee, were you given any notes for those characters? DAVIS: No, I think it was the way he dressed. You had to follow the way he moved and the way others reacted to him. TJKC: Being specific, what happened when you went to Marvel? You’re talking to Stan Lee and he says, “Jack, I’d love to have you draw The Rawhide Kid comic book,” and what comes next? DAVIS: Well, they gave you a script and, you know, the full pages with the lettering were already there, and you make your drawings fit around them. TJKC: In one of the RK books, you had the fictional Rawhide Kid square off with Jesse James [RK #33] and in the next one he faced a gunman with super-powers... Mr. Lightning [RK #34]. [laughs] DAVIS: I don’t remember that too well [chuckling]. That was not a happy time, Lee. I was turning stuff out, disappointed that I’d left Mad, bills to be paid, kids comin’, and so on. Stan Lee didn’t write like Harvey Kurtzman but then, Stan Lee is the most successful comics writer in the world! But he had a wild imagination and he loved comics! I like Stan. I’m not putting him down. It’s just a difference in quality. I never read their super-hero books. Very popular stuff, though. I don’t remember that Fly book you said I did with Joe Simon [Adventures of the Fly #3, Oct. 1959, at left]. The only time I remember working with Joe was with Cracked Magazine because I’d left Mad and they wanted me to draw for that and Joe was the editor. TJKC: What recollections do you have about working with Simon? DAVIS: Well, he liked my work [laughs] and he gave me stuff but it was an imitation of Mad and I don’t particularly care for imitations. He was a very likable guy, though. Unfortunately for this writer, Mr. Davis had no standout memories of his work on the Kids. “At the rate they [Marvel/Atlas] were paying, there wasn’t much worth remembering,” Jack told de Broff with a chuckle during their talks. Presumably though, Davis enjoyed his short stint with the heroic young gunslingers as much as Kirby did, because as he said near the end of this interview, “I’ve always wanted to be a cowboy.” ★ 47

[laughs] Yeah! In fact, this one guy told me this: He was a very rich guy in Germany. His father was a millionaire. They owned department stores. He came to the department store one day in a limousine. There were these Nazis standing in front of the department store with the armbands. This guy didn’t even stop! He told the limo [driver] to go on and... ended up on a boat and they went to America! [lots of laughs] This fellow worked with Joe and myself. FAN: Do you remember his name? KIRBY: Oh, no. It’s so long now. It was a German name! [laughs] But... ah, I was used to that, too. My parents were Austrian, see? He was glad to be in America.

made a statement. I saw their first set of bubble gum cards as a wide-eyed, barefooted country boy in 1966. A box festooned with imagery of Marvel’s “jolly green giant,” “Ol’ Winghead,” “Goldilocks,” that “webheaded menace,” “Shellhead,” and “the scarlet swashbuckler” lay near the cash register of the small corner grocery where my mother had decided to buy some fruit. Instantly entranced, I walked gingerly over the warm wooden floorboards, hardly believing my eyes. Marvel was putting out more than just comics! I pleaded with my mother to let me buy at least two packs of these new cards. She bought them (for a whopping 10¢!) along with our groceries while I asked the amused cashier to please save the box when it was empty. (I had quickly decided that I had to have it!) He gently broke the news that a waiting list had already started for it. I consoled myself on the way home with the best bubble gum I’d ever tasted and sturdy panel reproduction art cards by Wood, Heck, Ditko, and Kirby. More was on the way. T-shirts, stationery, minibooks, posters, and paperbacks were coming. Amid Batmania and Beatlemania, a lot of us were lucky enough to be in on... Marvelmania. FAN: I’m interested in the period of the Prize Studio: 1948-’50s, really good work, interesting people.... KIRBY: They were interesting years, believe me. Things were changing all the time. You need new types of stories, new types of books.... FAN: You gathered a whole bunch of people who put out all kinds of books under the Simon & Kirby imprint there in that studio. KIRBY: Yes, I did a variety of work and I began to wonder what kind of thing we’d do next. FAN: It was really puzzling to see something like a [John] Severin working in the Kirby studio under someone like Simon’s inks or [Bruno] Premiani’s inks or something. KIRBY: They were all wonderful guys. Joe himself is the kind of guy who probably wouldn’t associate with me unless we drew together. [laughter] Plus he’s about 6'3", he’s a college man which I’m not, but he got along great with the Goodmans who owned Marvel, see? They were all his types. The Goodman brothers, he used to go out with them. When Joe got friendly with them I would stay out in the studio and we both got our work sold. FAN: In the late ’40s, you must’ve had a dozen people working in the studio with you. KIRBY: Yes, we did. German refugees and everything. 48

KIRBY: Patton gave me a promotion. He made me a PFC. [big laughs]

FAN: Are there any more New Gods stories that are coming out? KIRBY: Yes, they’ll probably reprint the entire thing.

FAN: You talk to Frank Zappa lately? KIRBY: No, not lately... but he’s a good friend. When I met Frank his daughter Moon was about this big [Jack lowers his hand to just below his hip].

FAN: As far as new stuff, do you... KIRBY: Well, I have the deal [with DC], so... we’ll see.

[Fans continue to pore over the King’s stunning portfolio pieces. One page includes a drawing of Lightray.]

[An admirer gets Jack’s attention and asks him if the war page that we are looking at had been based on Kirby’s personal experiences. The King cheerfully recounts his Marlene Dietrich story as Mrs. Kirby flashed fingers behind him to signal us that he’d told that one story many a time. We were able to respectfully hold in the chuckles, I’m proud to say.]

KIRBY [continuing]: Lightray was just a good kid, y’know. [laughing] Even Darkseid couldn’t do anything to him! FAN: Did Mike Thibodeaux ink this one? KIRBY: Yes. Mike is very, very good. Darkseid is a stern father who has a rebellious son... which is the

essence of the formula. Of course, they’re all “power people.” They’ve got universal powers and stuff; but they represent us. [Someone flips the page to another space scene.] FAN: You look at one of the astronaut suits you drew in the ’40s and it looks like what they used in the ’60s! KIRBY [nodding his head knowingly]: I kinda envisioned it. When we really go out there it’ll be something like this. FAN: Someday.... [Jack looked over the artwork. The unused page from Avengers #3— see Kirby Unleashed—drew silent awe from the onlookers.]

enforced silences followed. Yet, in reading and rereading the work of this incredible pair, some distinctions can be found. Drama and romance—give the nod to “the Man.” Kirby was certainly capable of creating tension in dramatic/romantic situations as he’d proven in his Young Love days, but Lee excelled in this area. His heroines were every bit as brave, level-headed, and self-sacrificing as their lovers and thus sympathetic to the largely male audience of Marvel readers. Agent 13, Marvel Girl, Lady Pamela Hawley, Susan Storm, Sif, Medusa, and others willingly and uncomplainingly took on all of the hardships their men did and there

FAN [looking at the Assemblers and Namor]: The only one here you didn’t create was Sub-Mariner. KIRBY: No, I didn’t create Sub-Mariner but I used him in a lot of my stories. [smiling] He was available!! FAN: He was on the payroll! KIRBY [laughing]: No, the company owned him. So I used him. FAN: He was a Bill Everett creation. KIRBY: Yeah. At that time, whatever you created there the company would own. FAN: Well, now... people are writing their own ticket. FAN [speaking out of reverence for Jack]: Thanks to you.... KIRBY: But... they paid me well. I was satisfied with that. MRS. KIRBY [behind Jack]: You were never satisfied. What are you talking about?! [This was one of those moments where you had to be there! Roz Kirby, though at that time a bona fide Californian, dissed her husband’s comments with a perfect New York City accent and all the attitude that comes with it. Everyone, including Jack, was bent over with laughter!] As the ’70s progressed, a topic for debate among pop music enthusiasts was which songs did Paul McCartney write for the Beatles and which ones did John Lennon create; moreover, which songs marked their collaborations and which riffs, bridges, or lyrics belonged to which genius? Lennon, exploring new territory as a somewhat reclusive househusband, continued to do interviews sporadically but stayed away from the “I did this, Paul did that” situation. McCartney, with a new group, continued to record and tour. His interviews followed the same notes (no pun intended) as John’s. By the end of the decade though, with legal problems behind them, both artists were candidly admitting to interviewers which Beatle was responsible for the classic tunes labeled “written by Lennon and McCartney.” Alas, it would never go that way with Lee and Kirby. Comic magazines weren’t in the same league with the Beatles phenomenon money-wise, and many comics professionals felt little need to keep notes and records as to who contributed what and when. Jack Kirby left Marvel in 1970 and Stan was promoted to publisher in ’71. Bad memories, unasked questions, outrageous claims (depending on your perspective), indignant responses, and self-

were no lapses in the characterizations of Dorma, Clea, Karen Page, and Betty Brant in the non-Kirby drawn strips. First, discovery and a little flirtation were followed by self-doubt and questioning. Some longing and frustration were thrown in for good measure and once declarations of love were made, more frustration (those pesky super-villains!) usually ensued. Sometimes Stan spiced things up with love triangles or separations. Finally, true love either overcame or a break-up was in the wind. (Only Jane Foster became “shrill,” “scared,” and therefore “unworthy” of her immortal paramour in Thor #136 but she was replaced in the same issue with Sif, immediately lessening the shock/disappointment the readership was no doubt feeling.) Stan occasionally let his superdoers go “wild” and in their “fighting-mad fury” they’d up their abilities themselves, providing a passionate excitement his competitors knew little or nothing about. Invention and high concepts have to go to Kirby. The King told us if the reader was uninterested in finishing a story he’d done, he felt he’d failed as a storyteller. His job was to draw you in through good storytelling and to make you want to come back to his type of product again. “My job was to sell magazines,” and Jack said this often. Grabbing a comics fan’s attention was as varied as opening scenes of characters in training (the Howlers on their training range or the X-Men’s Danger Room, for examples), or the expanded universe (Reed viewing the Negative Zone, Metron in the area of the Promethean Giants, and the Silver Surfer in the micro-verse of Psycho-Man come to mind). The action continued to flow in sequences where Odin, Darkseid, Dr. Doom,

(right) Marie Severin parody of Kirby from Not Brand Echh #11 (Dec. 1968). (below) Spider-speed was only used in this Quicksilver-like fashion in Kirby-drawn sequences, like this one from Strange Tales Annual #2 (1963). Characters TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

(below) Iron Man’s early components by Kirby (such as here from Avengers #2) had worlds of potential, but Stan probably tailored them to suite his needs, along with Don Heck’s and Gene Colan’s.

(right) The Surfer’s deliberate taking of lives (from FF #61) was closer in attitude to his role as the herald of Galactus than Stan’s “misplaced angel.” However, both characterizations were well done. Iron Man, Hulk, Silver Surfer TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Namor, the Watcher, and others viewed their loved ones, enemies, and/or potential victims through imaginative Kirby-drawn viewing objects. The King could find ways to grab you and not let go! Steranko, Wood, and Kirby were masters of putting together futuristic machinery but Jack’s devices were functional and “plot friendly,” getting their various owners out of dilemmas time and time again. Fight sequences go to Jack also, though Stan wasn’t far behind with such talented artists as Ditko, Colan, Buscema, Steranko, Romita, etc., visualizing them on paper. While the webslinger’s vaunted spider-speed was one of his greatest powers, it was probably Lee who eschewed his early Quicksilver-like bursts of racing speed (Strange Tales Annual #2), favoring more subtle approaches. This situation and Iron Man’s “Thor’s hammer-like accessory” (in Avengers #2), to me, represent a couple of Kirby-inspired ideas where the editor/scripter and artist/conceptualist differed. Since Kirby didn’t do Spidey regularly anyway, web gimmickry went the Stan and Steve way, and Iron Man’s many component possibilities could be brought over for suitably evil purposes by Victor von Doom, adding perhaps to the incredible Doom/ Thing battle in FF #40. Kirby’s growing unhappiness with Marvel may have led him to just abandon doing any extra panels with Stan subplots in the late ’60s. Wyatt Wingfoot’s refusal to join Coach Thorne’s struggling football team (beginning in FF #50) remains the only unresolved plot line the pair worked on, providing you discount Franklin Richards’ powers. It is the Silver Surfer, in my opinion, that represents the truest parting of styles and influence. We know what Stan did so let’s start by examining Jack’s solo featurette at the end of FF Special #5. Kirby showed that an alien being, through his interactions with us (and assorted super-baddies) could learn quickly of the human condition and end the lesson/story by coming to universal truths: “If a body lack a soul... only a statue will it remain.” Like Galactus, the silvery one was above mere good and evil. He began as an accomplice to world destruction and had already been successful at it for some time. Jack saw him as untainted, a shining spectator to the events happening on this world. He was an innocent, more or less, above our codes, religions, etc. Jack didn’t judge him or make him a judge, unlike Stan. Lee’s Surfer had a conscience. Norrin Radd had been a sacrificial lamb and was now an earthbound angel, “preaching” to the unconverted while (always sadly) bringing violent hatemongers of destruction to defeat. Yet Stan, for all his excellent co-plotting, characterization, etc., couldn’t write around a genuine Kirby moment where the newly-empowered Surfer, his powers returned from the usurper Doom, vents his wrath on his captors (in FF #61, shown at right). The “angry” Surfer lets loose with destructive cosmic force while uttering the (universal?) lessons he’s gotten, “That which is reaped must one day be sown!” Lee’s later “angel” would find all life precious, but Jack’s “starchild” takes life(!) where he feels it to be appropriate in his cosmic encounters with those who would destroy him (Quasimodo and Doom’s henchmen). Clearly, Kirby had a different agenda for this character! Jack’s later solo projects show how adept he was at plotting, pacing, scripting, etc., and that’s why Machine Man, Kamandi, The Demon, and others are so important. The Kirby books reveal a side of the man’s creativity that would’ve been tough to separate from Simon and Lee had he not done them. Editing—give it to Stan. The Man knew what worked, what didn’t,

and when to, as he put it, “rein Jack in.” The Fourth World, under Lee’s editing, would probably have been less confusing to a general readership in those pre-direct sales days. On the other hand, the Silver Surfer book, written and penciled by the King, might have been a “true revelation.” (And that comes from someone who loved the Lee/Buscema Surfers and the DC godwar just as they were.) Like those two songwriting lads from Liverpool, it was an astounding collaboration any way you cut it. Readings and rereadings will bring out more of their differences or stylistic touches as time goes by. Or, if you prefer, try to “imagine” what McCartney’s “A Day In the Life” or Lennon’s version of “Let It Be” would sound like. KIRBY [referring to The Art of Jack Kirby]: Believe me, this doesn’t cover half the stuff I did. FAN: Who would you have play you in a movie? KIRBY: Play me? Anybody. FAN: Charlton Heston. KIRBY: Naw, I look like anybody. FAN: Who would you choose? KIRBY [chuckling at the Charlton Heston line now circulating]: No, I’m not Charlton Heston! FAN: Jack Nicholson? [Jack considers that comment for a second.]

FAN: There ya go! FAN: Tom Cruise? [laughter] KIRBY: No, it’s more like one of the comedians, I guess.

The Paul Gulacy Perspective

FAN: Have you heard anything about the new Fantastic Four movie? Did you consult on that? KIRBY: I got my name on it. Yeah, I insisted on that. Sometimes I get sorry I do it because they did a Captain America movie and it was very bad. [There are lots of nods in agreement here.] I fought to get my name on it because I wasn’t working for Marvel anymore but I did help create Captain America. So I got out my lawyers: “Put Kirby’s name on it!” They did, y’know, but they made a very bad movie. [laughter]

There’s a special something about that cadré of young comics creators that made their mark in the ’70s. They took the industry in directions undreamed of and the enduring quality of their endeavors have stood the test of time. Paul Gulacy was one of that era’s best, and his work on Master of Kung Fu (see Comic Book Artist #7), “Morbius,” “The Rook,” and his later stuff on Batman, Sabre, etc., has only solidified his reputation as one of the industry’s most exciting storytellers. Paul has a good sense of humor and is just as entertaining with words as he is with pictures. As our conversation wound around to the work of Jack Kirby at a convention on November 19, 2000, Gulacy was kind enough to share some of his opinions for Kirby Collector readers.

FAN: How’d you like the serial [from the ’40s]? KIRBY: I’d have felt better if they’d put my name on it. FAN: How’d you like the 1978 version? KIRBY [referring to the non-TV movie version again]: How’d you like to make Captain America in Yugoslavia?! That’s where they shot it! [more laughs as Jack shakes his head] Whatta putz! I got sore because they didn’t have my name on it and I had my lawyers say, “Put Kirby’s name on it!” And then... [mounting laughter]... when the thing came out, I saw it, and everybody walked out of the building. [all-around laughter] It was awful. The Incredible Hulk... they had a lot of episodes of that. In fact, Lou Ferrigno played that. I had one walk-on. He was supposed to be in the hospital, and I had this walkon. I walked past the hospital bed never realizing that the Hulk was in this bed. [laughs] They did a good job. Lou Ferrigno was very good. FAN: Were you influenced by the old films? KIRBY: Oh, yeah. My mother couldn’t pull me out of the theater. I would see a picture, maybe two or three times when it was in the theater. So my mother would finally come in and pull me out. I read the pulps, loved science-fiction, and got a big kick out of Barney Google. Those kinds of things got me interested in doing comics. FAN [looking at a wartime sketch]: Good rendition of a Tiger tank though, huh? KIRBY: I was a scout and I had a walkie-talkie. I would call back to my regiment. FAN: They look so modern... but 40 years old. KIRBY: Believe me, they made a lot of noise. FAN: Yeah, but that drawing looks so modern compared to some of the stuff that’s coming out nowadays. You were ahead of your time right there. KIRBY: I always drew what I saw around me. It was real. Even Captain America was real. It was an expression of patriotism. FAN: Beautiful piece. KIRBY: I thank you. [pausing] I have a girl called Nightglider. She’s coming out right now. Topps is coming out with it. I have a bunch called the Secret

Editor/Writer Roy Thomas Roy Thomas began his comics career as both DC and Marvel were trying out and succeeding at new innovations in the field. Roy’s ideas reflected a wonderful balance of the old and new and his work on Conan the Barbarian, the Avengers, X-Men, the Invaders, Dracula Lives!, the All-Star Squadron, and many more holds up today as some of the finest writing ever produced for the medium. He also edited some fine titles, also. To the happiness of comics fans/ historians everywhere, Thomas didn’t stop there. He picked up where he left off with Alter Ego and the magazine continues to make important strides with each issue. Roy took a brief time-out from his busy schedule to talk about a few of his favorite Lee/Kirby and S&K books with Jerry Boyd by phone on Oct. 28, 2001. ROY THOMAS: The one I keep looking back at is the one that became so influential and groundbreaking over time: Fantastic Four #1. It got slicker and it got better but I bought it off the stands back then and you just knew this was something special, something different. Another favorite would be FF #5 with Dr. Doom’s first appearance. You got Sinnott’s inking for the first time here even though he seemed to disappear for the next few years. [laughs] FF #4 brought back Sub-Mariner—another great book. Later on, of course, the Galactus/Silver Surfer line revealed a different feel and a greater sophistication. The ’40s Stuntman books were really good and I was a huge fan of Fighting American. I recognized the Kirby name back then when I was buying comics and anything Simon and Jack did, along with Joe Kubert, was very important to me. ★

PAUL GULACY: One of my favorite runs was the Captain America/ Black Panther series [Tales of Suspense #98-99, and CA #100]. It played on some James Bond themes. There was the girl with the beret [Agent 13] who was a secret agent and the cinematic style of the artwork was just incredible. There was a lot of great action in those issues, also. The dialogue [by Stan], I think worked only for that medium. I reread some FFs the other day and tried to picture some actors doing those lines and it doesn’t work. In that format and the style of storytelling they were doing, it works with the art perfectly. There was nobody like Kirby. His work stills stands out to this day. I grabbed onto something from each issue. The Captain Victory stuff was another favorite. ★

Six. [pauses] Satan’s Six! Sorry! [laughs] It’s Secret City! [Jack cracks up along with everybody else.] Satan’s Six is a bunch of guys who are trying to get into Hell but the Devil won’t let ’em because they’re not all that bad! [laughter] So they try to go out and do bad things which turn out to be good... trying to get into Hell. They can’t make it! FAN: The opposite of wanting to get into Heaven... KIRBY: No, Heaven they’d never make. They’d never get in there. FAN [joking]: Too bad for Heaven... too good for Hell! [laughs] FAN: Did you keep any copies of your comics from the ’40s? KIRBY: No, they used to burn them. [laughter] FAN: My friend asked me to pull this out... [fan produces a copy of All-Winners Comics #2]... just to show you [an S&K Cap and Bucky story was within]. RAY WYMAN, JR.: Oh, my God.... Can I look at this? KIRBY [glancing at the story while Wyman flipped the pages]: I had a great time with these. [smiling] You got a valuable book. [laughter] [Murmurs of “Wow” and “Oh, my God” passed through the assemblage. Another great Timely with work by the King had surfaced. Many of the comics and magazines brought by admirers that day were incredible for their condition and rarity.] FAN: Careful, careful.... [laughs] FAN: Did you keep your ’50s and ’60s books? KIRBY: No, I drew new types of things. [softly speaking] I drew girls. Big Barda. [with a sly, mischievous grin] I always liked big girls, I don’t know why. MRS. KIRBY: All right, Kirby... slow down. [The King, found out, fell apart with the rest of us in snickers.] RAY WYMAN, JR.: We estimate that he did 2400 stories—20,000-plus pages. KIRBY: Ideas come from everywhere. Thor I got from the Germanic legends... the Norwegian myths. My buddies and I kneeled and tore at the grass on our playground field as the constant wail of police sirens disturbed our every word and thought. We were kids in that late spring of 1968 but there seemed to be no safe haven for childhood proper in the nation’s capitol at that time. Large sections of our city had been torn apart by rioting following the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. All of us, being black, knew and shared the anger the rioters felt... but being children, we were naturally shaken by this storm of violence so close to us and the seat of government. After awhile the sirens’ screaming distanced themselves from us and our football game turned into a joyful speculation about the “Specials/Annuals” Mighty Marvel would produce for the upcoming summer. How could Jack, Stan, and company top 1967?! The consensus among us was that FF Special #5 was the best of the lot (what with the Silver Surfer’s solo outing and Sue’s baby announcement), but the Avengers and Daredevil’s first 25-centers just wouldn’t bow out! And Fury and the Howlers had gone to Vietnam! Greg stated with a sly smile, “It was all-new material too, guys.” We batted our own ideas around, pinchhitting for Smilin’ Stan. “There’s gotta be another Daredevil Special!” “No. I want Iron Man. He’s overdue.” Marky laughed. “Tony Stark, lover-boy inventor! 52

Yeah. He’s my man.” I joined in. “That attaché case is the coolest.” (Every boy living in the US in the late ’60s was captured by the spy craze. It could’ve been Bond, Fury, the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents, Maxwell Smart, Flint, or U.N.C.L.E., etc. It was inescapable. And the thing spies were never without were attaché cases. Stark’s was just full of better stuff than the others.) “Thor’s hammer is the coolest, Jerry,” Earl, our leader, asserted. Earl was the toughest in our group as well as the oldest and the only person we knew who had a copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1. He also had the best collection of comics for miles around. His opinion counted. “You mugs are forgetting Steranko, though. Can you picture a big S.H.I.E.L.D. story by him?!” Toby sat back on the grass, smugly. He studied our reactions with a big grin. Moans of pleasure and Beatle-like howls of “Yeah, yeah, yeah” made some other kids look our way to see if we were all right. We were okay. We’d just been wafted away from the social and political turmoil of the times

into a comic book euphoria that only a young, firstgeneration Marvel madman could appreciate. Toby laughed as he pointed to me. He said, “Jerry went craaazy last summer when he got the Avengers Special. He danced everywhere he went for a week!” “I sure did,” I said proudly. I spoke the title of the epic Thomas and Heck directed with reverence. “The Monstrous Master Plan of the Mandarin!” The five of us nodded together in respect for the House of Ideas and laughed. Marvel did it all for us. As the tension-filled summertime progressed, my brother and I took a train trip to stay with our grandparents in North Carolina. Spidey’s Annual was a step up this year, I concluded, and the first double-sized Hulk was a pleasant surprise. The FF and Avengers books had so far eluded me. One day, our grandmother drove us uptown to get some comics from the drug store and have lunch. “Here’s Thor,” my brother Randy announced, turning the squeaking comics rack in my direction. I was struck by the cover. It was an Asgardian family picture of sorts, with the god of thunder soaring imperiously

over it all. It was a gorgeous Jack Kirby piece, conspicuous by its lack of blurbs and its title; Tales of Asgard. It wasn’t all-new. It had Thor in small letters on the cover. There was an early Marvel feel to it but it was still captivating. Here was Thor— as a kid (!)—holding a sword (?). Loki was also very young. Heimdall stood in majestic poses radiating celestial power upon the Rainbow Bridge. Who was this Surtur guy?! There was Odin... creating Bifrost... and starting the world... our world! I had to have this book!! Tales of Asgard #1 was a primer in Norse mythology by way of Stan, Jack, Vince Colletta, George Roussos, Chic Stone, and others. Upon reaching the air-conditioned coolness of Nana and Papa’s den, I lost myself in baptisms of immortality, sinister machinations, noble aspirations, cosmic beginnings, and the struggle for a weapon powerful enough to shake an entire galaxy—and more. Surely, the Greco-Roman myths surrounding the labors of Hercules inspired the team’s plotting to some degree. Lee and Kirby had to realize that just as mere mortals must “suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,” so too must the eternals be put to task from time to time so that men could truly respect them. Spending that great afternoon with Jack Kirby years later left me a little confused. I didn’t know whether to thank him, Stan, or Martin Goodman for suggesting a Thor Annual #3 filled with “TOA” reprints, but the book made my summer twenty-five years ago. The material was “new” to my friends and me and it made the King’s incredible vision of the Asgardian homeland more powerful to us than it had ever been before.

grandson. He’s a little older. FAN: How’d you like to be thirteen again? KIRBY: I’d love it! Because this generation has it all! They can make what they want. Listen, he’ll make 100 grand a year if he works hard! [laughter] [Jack goes back to The Art of Jack Kirby.] This is a very good book. It’s like an autobiography. It’s got very old drawings and it’s unbelievable how much I drew. In my case I draw from the gut. If anybody told me no, I’d punch him in the eye; but if you want to draw—practice, and work to be the very, very best. The crowd that gathered to see “comics’ most prodigious imagination” (as The Comics Journal so eloquently labeled Kirby) wasn’t disappointed. The King was a charming guy. Jack found us to be a great audience. Our laughter to his jokes and stories loosened him up considerably, and he caught himself chuckling often to new punchlines he put on tales most Kirby fans were familiar with, and others completely new to us. The group swelled to about 75 people throughout the afternoon; but with fans buying his book, some just stopping for photos with him, and lunchtime beckoning, it never got too congested in the large store.

(these two pages) Two examples of Kirby’s pencils from Satan’s Six #1. These pages were done well over a decade before they finally saw print in 1993, for a line of “Kirby Comics” that an entrepreneur enlisted Jack to produce, but lost funding for. Satan’s Six TM & ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate.

KIRBY: And my wife... when I met her I beat out four other boyfriends she had. MRS. KIRBY [embarrassed]: C’mon, Jack.... KIRBY [chuckling]: It’s true. One guy was a piano player. And I stood behind him watching him play the piano and I said, “Gee, wouldn’t it be awful if all your fingers were bent backward.” And this guy says to me, “What?!” I says, “They need you out in Hollywood, California. There’s nothing for you here.” FAN: What do you think about John Byrne’s work? KIRBY: John Byrne? He’s an excellent man. FAN: Did you like what he did on OMAC, though? KIRBY: No, I like what I did. [laughter] He’s entitled to have his own way. I think that’s fair and if his book sells, he’s evidently a good man. He’s entitled to gain that kind of respect for himself which is the way I tried to do things. If one of you guys do it, you should be entitled to draw him your way... whichever way you see him. You’ll have a great time... [chuckling] and... no harm [done]! [Our king showed an FF drawing to a new group of fans clustered around the portfolio.] KIRBY: The Human Torch was just a teenager... with his pants on fire! [laughs] FAN: Like my son here? KIRBY: About his age, yeah! He looks like a good guy! FAN: He is good. Not because he’s my son, he’s just good. [The father and son shake Jack’s hand.] And you gave me a lot of pleasure when I was growing up. I read your books in Spanish. KIRBY: Y’know, your son’s about the age of my 53

Scripted By: Steve Englehart Steve Englehart was one of the most important and influential

Sgt. Fury & The Hernandez Brothers It’s been confirmed already by the pros and the fan press;

young writers of the ’70s. He brought the questions surrounding the original Captain America and the Atlas-era Cap to a satisfying conclusion, successfully “resurrected” Wonder Man while taking the Avengers to new heights of glory, and even got his version of God into the mystic corridors of Dr. Strange. In 1976, he upped the ante in Mighty Thor Annual #5, moving the Norse gods into an all-out war against their Olympian counterparts. Steve elaborated on the Kirby-Lee imprint from the earliest “Tales of Asgard” and even gave a reason for the existence of two distinct, distant races of (Marvel) deities. Were Jack Kirby’s visions (Fourth World or otherwise) in his thinking? We’ll let Steve tell you. (This capsule interview was conducted by Jerry Boyd via e-mail on August 12, 2000.)

Love and Rockets was far and away the greatest ongoing comics series of the 1980s. Jaime and Gilbert’s beautiful renderings, along with the strongest, most realistic characterizations of comics characters done yet (especially their females) and unique, compelling plot lines made L&R the new cutting edge in graphic storytelling. Los Bros. Jaime (The Prince of Atlantis) and Gilbert (The Golden Avenger) were nice enough to share some memories of their visit to the Kirby home as well as a couple of their favorite Kirby works with Jerry Boyd on November 19, 2001.

TJKC: Did you read Kirby comics when you were growing up and if so, what influenced you the most? STEVE: The FF/Galactus saga, without a doubt. Not only do I consider that art, with Joe Sinnott’s inking, to be the most impressive art Marvel ever produced—I first encountered Marvel right in the middle of it. FF #48 was where I started, and that undoubtedly contributed heavily to the fact that I’m a comics writer today. I remember going to people who didn’t like comics and showing them those issues, saying “This will change your mind.” My latest project, Big Town, for Marvel, is on one level a very straightforward attempt to recapture the spirit and magic I found in those books—not to replicate them, but to give modern readers a sense of how they felt. TJKC: Chris Claremont told me back in the early ’80s he absolutely loved the New Gods. Jim Starlin said he enjoyed it, too. There were similarities to the Fourth World struggles in Roy Thomas’ Kree-Skrull War. Did it influence you as you put together your own godwar for the 1976 Thor Annual? STEVE: Sorry, no. I did not enjoy the Fourth World very much, because Kirby’s genius was art, not dialogue. I have to say that everything Jack wrote put me off, no matter how brilliant the art. Starlin and I have discussed this, actually—how you come at Kirby’s writing depends to a great extent on whether you identify more with the art or the writing. Unfortunately, I can’t draw. TJKC: Kirby returned to Marvel in ’75. Did you have any meetings with him in the latter part of the decade? STEVE: No. The first time I met him was right after he moved to DC in the early ’70s. He went to dinner with some DC folks, and I was lucky enough, as a total newcomer, to be invited along. It was, as you can imagine, a fabulous evening for me. The fact that I was soon disappointed in what he did as a writer doesn’t change that at all. I don’t remember meeting him again, except for brief encounters at conventions. TJKC: Jack did the cover for that Thor Annual, which by the way was just fantastic for the story and art [by John Buscema and Tony DeZuniga]. Did you request Kirby for that assignment? STEVE: No, though I would have if it had been a possibility for me. That issue was originally done as issue #1 of a new blackand-white magazine series called Thor the Mighty, but then plans changed, and so it ended up as a Thor Annual. I expect the cover of the magazine would have been a painting. ★

GILBERT: We went to Kirby’s house around the time he was having all the trouble with Marvel about getting his art back (circa 1986). The man was very gracious. What impressed me the most was his interest and enthusiasm for what other artists were doing. He was always encouraging to new cartoonists. JAIME: We were just sitting there going, “D’uhhh....” [laughter] GILBERT: Yeah. We were these young artists and we’re getting praise from the master! We don’t know if he ever read our stuff. Even if it was just “lip service,” it was great to have it coming from him. JAIME: Some of the best stuff Jack did as far as layouts were the earliest issues of Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandos. Issue #3, “Midnight on Massacre Mountain,” was just... amazing!! His most outstanding feat, in my opinion, was taking over for Colan (in TTA #82) and doing that Iron Man/SubMariner fight. Incredible.

[A fan pointed to Jack’s original Mickey Mouse art that appeared in color in a Disney book.]

GILBERT: I agree. The most exciting fight, mano e mano, that he ever did was that one. Going back to our visit, his artwork and pencils were on the wall of FF and Thor pages. He got teary-eyed talking about his Marvel characters. They meant a lot to him. ★ (left center) Kirby cover to the Englehart-scripted Thor Annual #5 (1976). Swap out Orion, Kalibak, Highfather, and Darkseid, and you’ve got a New Gods cover! Characters TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

A quiet game of “one-upsmanship” began. A few of us went around quietly looking to find out who had the rarest Kirby item in the room. One guy had a nice copy of Crazy, Man, Crazy #1 (see TJKC #25). He won. No one else there even knew it existed. At times, Jack seemed overwhelmed by the number of questions he got. At one point, stuck for an answer, he smiled and said without braggadocio, “Oh, I’ve done so many things!” I was particularly impressed by most of the fans who attended. Nobody tried to monopolize Jack’s time, and after viewing his stunning originals, no one had to be told to move aside for others. There were, however, a couple of snide, loud put-downs of Kirby’s work by a couple of fans that were old enough to know better. (Thankfully, Jack’s poor hearing didn’t pick them up.) I was shocked by those comments then (and again while I was transcribing the tapes) but it took me back to an old African folk tale where a number of hyenas have gathered about to laugh at an aging lion. At the end of the story, a wise orangutan, an onlooker to this sad spectacle, reminds one and all that despite their jibes, the hecklers are still hyenas and the lion is still a lion. (Appropriately enough, Cap #104 has a scene similar to this.) ’Nuff said. Let’s hear from the King.

FAN: Is that Mickey? KIRBY: They asked me to draw a Kirby Mickey Mouse. [laughs] They asked Andy Warhol and all the artists to draw Mickey Mouse. I even gave him leg muscles! FAN: The famous Kirby fingers! [A little boy came up and Roz got Jack’s attention.] KIRBY: What’s your name, pal? KID: John. KIRBY: Oh boy, you’re a handsome guy. KID [as serious as possible and not smiling or looking at Jack]: I love X-Men! [Everyone exploded with laughter.] Show me the books you’re selling.

KIRBY [collecting himself]: Ha ha! Oh, I did a few others... SpiderMan, Captain America....

we can all transcend ourselves.

KID [completely businesslike]: Yeah, but... uh, um... where are the books you’re selling? KID’S MOTHER: Don’t be rude, John.

FAN: The woman who lifted the car. KIRBY [nodding]: The woman with the car.

[Jack politely motioned the boy over to the stack of books at the edge of the table and the little collector was quickly gone.] KIRBY: So, uh... they wanted a Kirby Mickey Mouse and I gave it to them. FAN: What did Disney say about that? KIRBY: They liked it. They published it... along with the other artists’. I used to like the legends, y’know.... I would take a lot of the stories from the legends. So instead of doing Hercules I would use Thor because nobody used the Norwegian legends.

FAN: Yeah, I remember that [Kirby’s ofttold Hulk origin]. KIRBY: There was this kid... he called out from under a car. And I heard this scream. His mother came running out, y’know, like she felt... [he was in danger] but he was actually playing under the car. This was a time when cars had fenders! [laughs] He crawled out from under it, and... oh, the mother screamed, and she ran... this was no small roadster! This

FAN: So you worked with Wally Wood? When was the last time you saw him before he died? KIRBY: Well, Wally Wood... we did a newspaper strip together—Sky Masters! [smiling at the memory] Wally was a sickly guy, y’know, and he passed away. He was very sick... all the time. He had that kind of a defect that he couldn’t help himself. He would work very hard and he began to waste away, and that was it. [pause] He wasn’t a dumb type like me. [The King was ever humble, but never dumb. Wood wasn’t a slow study either. He recognized early on that Marvel was the next big thing in comics and he incorporated elements of the tragic super-doer in his Noman, Lightning, and Menthor at Tower Comics—see Comic Book Artist #14. Woody wasn’t quite finished with the Lee-Kirby formula, however. His team of Misfits (1969) featured a very Thing-like colossus by the name of Glomb (above).] KIRBY [continuing]: I was always very confident, fighting in a gym, gymnasium or something... or on a city block. I used to stand in a gutter and trucks would soar right past me. I’d wait for a guy from the next block to come over so we could fight. [laughs] He did come over, and when I got knocked out, they’d carry me up to this tenement house and they’d lay me out by my mother’s door. [more laughs] FAN [disbelieving]: Oh, stop! [lots of laughter] KIRBY: They’d smooth out my clothes and I’d be halfconscious and my mother would open the door. So they saw to it that she wouldn’t be too shocked. And then if I knocked out another guy I’d have to do the same thing! FAN: Overly polite. KIRBY: But it was a nutty block. [smiling] So I felt that I had some association with the heroes. [pointing to his artwork] And this is all mine. OMAC was a future cop. A policeman. And I gave him a Mohawk haircut. Brother Eye is a satellite. We watch everything through satellites. Actually, we have Brother Eyes up there. [The king swept his hand over a large sheet depicting art used for the Marvelmania stickers. There were about twenty head shots of various good guys and baddies.] KIRBY: These are all of the characters I created. There’s Doctor Doom. The Hulk I got from a woman. FAN [amazed]: Excuse me? [laughs] KIRBY: No, it’s just the fact that in times of desperation 55

was a touring car and she lifted the entire back of the car so the kid could get all the way out and I felt that if a woman could do that, everybody could do that! I did it because I once put my arm through a wall without anything happening to my fingers. I just got sore at somebody and I punched the wall! FAN: Because of somebody’s greed? KIRBY: Yeah. In times of stress, we can all transcend ourselves. I feel that’s true. Ironically, the Incredible Hulk used to be as much of a problem for Jack and Stan as he was for Gen. Ross, his troops, and the local citizenry. Banner remained Banner but ol’ Greenskin went through many changes in his initial run in a doomed effort to increase sales. He was gray in his first issue, and the darkness of night set off his metamorphosis, not stress. By #3, he was green and more radiation

bombardment made him Rick Jones’ mindless sidekick. His powerful leaping ability started from a desperate request of Rick’s to elude capture. In Hulk #4, a botched experiment gave the giant Banner’s mind with a fierce, danger-seeking edge to it. A machine was installed to control the transformations. (The purple rompers so familiar to us now debuted in the second story in that issue.) The sixth and final issue featured Ditko art, a Hulk mask to cover Banner’s human head which was merged with the green goliath’s body(!), and the growing unpredictability of the gamma ray machine. Whew! None of it caught on. The Marvel braintrusts refused to close the door on the behemoth from New Mexico, which was lucky for us because Hulky’s greatest moments were yet to come. Monsters were biiiiig in the early ’60s. Horror movie hosts on television such as Philadelphia’s Zacherley were springing up all over the nation and Aurora models, monster

to mind Universal Studios’ horror hit Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman. The same type of imagery is there. KIRBY: The reason I got good reaction from the readers was they could relate to them [the characters]. My people like ’em. Even the villains. They wanted good villains so there’d be... a problem [laughs]. FAN: You always stopped ’em before they’d do something really evil! KIRBY: Yeah. FAN: In some cases. KIRBY: Darkseid was a father/son thing. He was the kind of father that liked to kick around his son. And Orion was the kind of son that wouldn’t take that kind of stuff! [laughter] Darkseid was somebody’s old man... [mounting laughter] except he just happened to be the ruler of the universe [universal laughter]! FAN: You can’t bring his daughter home late! KIRBY: Well, I had a good one with Highfather. He was a really nice grandfather type. [A fan turned the pages of the portfolio to a huge original of Metron in his chair (see TJKC #6). After a few gasps, Jack started again.] KIRBY: And this was Metron in his chairmachine. [smiling] He was the only one that didn’t fight with Darkseid. [laughs] He was intellectual, far above everybody. FAN: Was Metron like Albert Speer, the guy who engineered the war machine for Hitler? [This query came from me and I’d forgotten I’d asked it until I recognized my voice on the tape. Jack’s answer confirmed my analysis at the time but got lost in the back of my head until I put together my piece on Nazi Germany and Apokolips for TJKC #22.) KIRBY: Yes. Metron was a technician. And a heartless technician doesn’t care about anybody... anything... except his machinery. [smiling again] I was exactly the opposite type.

magazines, and more kept kids company as they gleefully recoiled from the black-and-white terrors on their television screens. (The King admitted to working late during this time period, so it’s entirely possible some of his more monstrous ideas came from the tube.) The Hulk, the Thing, Orion, and Thor nemesis Mr. Hyde (the famed British novel was the antecedent for ol’ Jade Jaws and Marvel’s Mr. Hyde according to Stan) were almost as visually interesting in their Kirby-drawn changes as Lon Chaney Jr., Karloff, and others were in theirs. Kirby’s Masterworks in ’79 boasted a sensational tabloid cover presenting Darkseid against Orion (finally!) in a (boxing) fight-style tableau. A shame he didn’t get to finish the war then. Still, that great piece (and John P. Alexander’s superb contribution to TJKC #28) brought

It had been a great vacation up to now. As a hundred or more of us “baked” in the stifling heat of a stalled New York City subway, I tried to think back to happier moments the summer had given us and not this. The summer of ’71’s “soundtrack” saw pop tunes by Aretha Franklin, Three Dog Night, Marvin Gaye’s incredible “What’s Going On?” and Sly and the Family Stone. My family had whisked happily about our old homesteads on the East Coast, visited with cherished old friends and relatives, and enjoyed ourselves to the hilt. DC and Marvel had gone to their 25-centers and Neal Adams was blowing hearts and minds away at both companies with the classic Green Lantern/Green Arrow #85 and the incomparable Avengers #93. Adams was cutting out a strata all his own, but Thomas and WindsorSmith were on the unbelievable Conan, Gil Kane’s Spidey had grown extra arms, and Kull (by the Severins) was starting up. Neal’s Batman was no slouch, either. “Well, you can’t have it your way all the time,” I muttered to myself as the men stripped

to their waists around and above us and the women pushed fallen, sweaty curls from their faces. We had been en route to Harlem’s fabled Apollo Theater to see Motown Records legend Smokey Robinson and the Miracles in concert. Now, that seemed doubtful. No one was even getting us any word about why we were stopped. The adults, knowing there were children about, respectfully watched their language. But it was incredibly hot that August and unbearably hotter underground. For the four kids in our group, it was hotter. We came waist-high to the grownups and their increasing body heat and dripping arms took away our strength. Everyone was packed tightly. “This is why you should be good,” some guy joked. “They say Hell gets hotter than this!” A few people weakly laughed. Finally, after a long wait, someone announced that the subway ahead of us had caught on fire and that was the reason for the delay. We felt luckier, if nothing else, and again there was a long wait. At the end, we all stumbled, ran, or trudged wearily out at the next stop we could get off at, and the evening city heat was a welcome relief after being trapped underground. Wiping perspiration from our arms and necks, we moved with a few people toward a bus stop to return to our car. We’d never make the show and my father was especially angry. As we rounded a corner, I happened to peek into a convenience store. The comics rack was just inside the entrance and there was a bright orange cover on one of the books—its artwork in an unmistakable style. New Gods #5—I couldn’t believe it! Quickly sizing up the situation, I saw that everyone was slowing down to wait at this bus stop, so I felt I had time. I fumbled for my change and furtively went into the store. There was no time to look the book over and no need. This was Jack Kirby and it looked better than the only other issue I had—#3. (A black god of death—on skis—with a secret identity?) The problem was there was a line at the cash register. I begged a hardened New Yorker to please let me slip ahead of him and get this book. No dice. The next person nicely let me in, amused by my pleading manner, steamed glasses, and soaked shirt. Suddenly, my father appeared inside the store’s door. “Jerry! Are you—what are you doing?!” he demanded, even angrier than before. I could see my entire comics collection being thrown out upon our return to California. I had to tell the truth, though. “Buying t-this c-comic, Dad,” I managed weakly. “The bus is about to leave! Come on! Buy it!!” As I got onto the bus, everyone in my family looked

Notice a resemblance? Darkseid’s Golem-like demeanor and Orion’s feral aggression weren’t far cries from Universal’s Frankenstein and the Wolfman. Orion, Darkseid TM & ©2003 DC Comics. Frankenstein, Wolfman TM & ©2003 Universal Studios, Inc.

(below) Long before others did semi-autobiographical work, Kirby produced “Inky” (1947) based on his own dreams of getting into newspaper strip work. The strip wasn’t picked up, and was later reconfigured for In Love #3 for Mainline, with minor art modifications. ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate. (next page, top) In 1987, Mark Evanier celebrated the King’s 70th birthday with a San Diego Con party, featuring this Kirby/Theakston Silver Surfer on the tribute program’s cover. Silver Surfer TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

strangely at me and so did the other family who accompanied us. My father tried to hold down his temper because of the crowd’s ogling of us for our soaked clothes, but a few anti-comics comments reached my fearful ears. My mom calmed him down. “He’s been through a lot just now,” she whispered. I didn’t dare look at anyone in our party. I’d been wrong. I might’ve missed the bus in a part of the city no one in our group knew. I also might’ve missed out on Jack Kirby. Trying not to drip perspiration onto my newly-purchased treasure, I relaxed my grip on the pole and after awhile, all was back to normal. My younger brother Randy leaned over and, sensing the danger was over, christened the situation with a Stan Lee title. “The Agony and the Triumph!” he murmured so that only I could hear him. It was all I could do to keep from busting out with laughter, but I didn’t dare as yet. The bus began to empty and we found seats. I apologized to everyone for nearly making a bad situation worse, which made my dad happy. I took quick looks at this wonderful book, so different from the third issue. Orion, like Conan, was a hero for this new decade. He killed his enemies, delighted in destruction, and was something truly hideous at times. What was Jack up to? There seemed to be a big storyline that was bizarre, untried, yet compelling, and part of a huge tapestry that somehow included the Forever People, Mister Miracle, and Jimmy Olsen.

“I’m in New York but I’m a long way from the Baxter Building,” I thought. So was Kirby. FAN: I took a class once on comics and they showed some pages from a story you did. It was about your life growing up. It was autobiographical. Where did that come from? KIRBY: It was from Argosy magazine. I showed my tenement house and the wooden floors. We had no toilets. That [one toilet] was in the middle of the [hall] floor, and all the neighbors would use the same toilet. That’s how it was in the ’20s because all you had was a kitchen, and the bathtub was in the kitchen! You just had a kitchen and a dining room. So, when I lived with my folks that’s all there was. FAN: I remembered the page they showed... it had a big fight. KIRBY: You fellas remember this fellow Klinghoffer on the Achille Lauro and he jumped on that terrorist submarine... although he was on a wheelchair. They drowned him. FAN [sadly]: Yeah... KIRBY [proudly]: Well, he was a friend of mine. FAN: Really? KIRBY: His father owned a linen store on the same block that I lived on. When I read about it in the newspapers, I expected him to do it. And he did it! ’Cause I knew he would; that’s what the guys had to do! If they pushed you around, you had to push back! When I read about it in the papers I knew he would do it. They probably pushed his wife around. Like, the gangsters on my block... they would turn you in to the cops if you said something about a guy’s mother! [Laughs broke out here along with nods of agreement.] You know, mothers were sacred! The gangsters knew the cops because they were brought up on the same block! I went with this friend of mine, “Tutti” Blau, and he says, “I’ll be an artist like you! I’ll tell my mother about it!” And he [chuckling] tells his mother and she says, “You’re gonna be an Italian?! [laughter] You’re gonna wear a beret?! You’re gonna hang out with loose women in Greenwich Village? You’re not gonna be an artist!! You’re gonna get a decent job!” And when I got back from service he was assistant police commissioner of New York! He did what his mother told him! How decent can you get?! So, you never disobey your mother. And it was just that way. The gangsters were just guys who wanted new suits, see? Except, they didn’t wait for the stores to open! [big laughs] Yeah, they’d break the windows and try different types of suits on. They got some great hats, too! But the cops were guys who listened to their mothers, you know, and they had to be good. The gangsters were just guys who didn’t care! They wanted that new suit! [Everyone was cracking up!] [A wide-eyed little boy spoke up.] FAN: How long did you do Silver Surfer? KIRBY: I did him for quite a number of years. He was a very good character. FAN [from the same boy]: Yeah! KIRBY: But I got him from California! FAN: You did?! [We older fans smiled at this special moment. The boy’s natural shyness was quickly overcome by the gentle charm of the master. I whispered to a friend, “This kid’s sharp enough to show up here and talk to Jack Kirby. He’ll never forget this.” My buddy agreed and added, “We’ll never forget it, either.”] KIRBY: Yeah. I was a New Yorker at the time and I see this photograph of a guy standing in the water on a wooden plank. They [the article’s writers] began to describe the surfers. So, I figured I’d do a character like the surfers except he’d fly around the moon, surf around the—.

KIRBY: Well, Mike Royer [inked] most of my stuff and he was excellent. Joe Sinnott... Marvin Stein.... FAN: Jack, when you did the Jimmy Olsen comic... in the middle of this great Jack Kirby page—you’d have all of the great characters you created—you’d have this Superman without the Kirby look. KIRBY: They took my heads off! FAN: Ohh.... [laughs] KIRBY: They had Jerry Siegel draw my heads! MRS. KIRBY: Jack! KIRBY: They had Jerry Siegel or Joe Shuster draw their heads on my bodies. [Mrs. Kirby got Ray Wyman Jr. to interrupt Jack.] RAY WYMAN, JR.: It was Curt Swan. KIRBY [giving up with a smile]: Curt Swan? It was Curt Swan. [laughing] Whoever! [Editor’s Note: It was actually Al Plastino, and later Murphy Anderson.] RAY WYMAN, JR.: Curt Swan was the DC Comics guy, right? So every time Jack drew something that had Superman on it, they’d erase it! They had a box full of Superman heads [big laughs] and Lois Lanes. FAN [same kid]: Did you get the idea of Galactus? KIRBY: Yes.

FAN: Will there ever be a Jack Kirby Museum? KIRBY: Well, Sotheby’s [the respected auction house]—

FAN: You did?! Wowwwwww.... KIRBY: Galactus was kind... of a ruler of the universe.

FAN: That’s all temporary! They sell it and move it out. MRS. KIRBY: They’re talking about it.

FAN: Yeah, he devoured planets!! [Jack, Roz, and everyone around laughed loudly, impressed by the boy’s knowledge of Marvel lore and his youthful awe.] KIRBY [laughing]: Yes, he did! With eggs! He always had two eggs with ’em [the planets]! [more laughs] He was an all-powerful figure! If you’re gonna rule the universe, you can’t just be a guy hanging around on the block! FAN: Did you think of Sandman? [The lad’s shyness was completely gone now. The king had won him over.] KIRBY [warmly]: Yes. FAN: Wow.... KIRBY: And the X-Men. They were mine. FAN: Ooooohhh, yeah! I liked the X-Men back then! KIRBY: They were the first mutants. FAN: There was Cyclops and... the Beast looked—. KIRBY [addressing everyone]: I thought everyone was going to get radioactive! [laughter] FAN: What do you think about guys who jump out of airplanes now flying surfboards before they pull their parachutes? KIRBY: Well, I think they’re a lot braver than I am! Super-heroes will do that kind of stuff. And I think people... all people have a bit of that inside. Y’know, to do something daring. Like I told another fella, I climbed the New Jersey Palisades which is 1,000 ft. high! There were just a few handholds! I never thought I was stupid, which I was [chuckling]... and I would think like one of my heroes. The New Jersey Palisades was 1,000 ft. straight up! It was just a wall. I climbed it but I never gave it a second thought because all the guys would take you in that direction. That’s why Klinghoffer thought nothing of jumping on an enemy submarine... even though he was in a wheelchair. No matter what kind of position you were in, there were certain things you had to do... and you had to do it! FAN: Do you have a favorite inker?

AMERICA’S BEST: J.H. WILLIAMS III AND MICK GRAY America’s Best Comics may be just that. The company has a small but very impressive lineup that’s won the hearts of readers everywhere. Their critically acclaimed efforts have been further rewarded with financial success. With chief writer, Alan Moore, who also scribed the brilliant miniseries The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, penciler J.H. Williams III and inker Mick Gray have raised their title Promethea to become a new industry standard. The artists were gracious enough to share some of their artwork and Kirby-related comments with Jerry Boyd for TJKC on August 4, 2001. J.H. WILLIAMS III: My first exposure to Jack Kirby was Kamandi. Then I went to the Fourth World books. That stuff was just incredible. I bought all of the Eternals later. What was special to me about all that material was it had a grand, mythic quality that the super-hero books didn’t have. Aside from that, his design sense started to really become distinctly Jack Kirby. Marvel really needs to get a collection going of the Eternals books and DC should collect Kamandi.

FAN: Were the people you invented based on people you know? KIRBY: Yes. It was based on everything I knew. I felt I was Captain America. I wanted to be a good American. Being a good American was very important to me. At that time there were a lot of villains around so I was able to make very good stories. He [Cap] was able to knock out about six guys at a time... but [smiling] I was only able to knock out about three! Ha ha! They used to associate me with the Thing! I used to talk like him! The Thing always talked like he came from the Lower East Side of New York! FAN: Ben Grimm wasn’t your pseudonym, was it? [laughter] KIRBY: No. Well, I didn’t realize it myself but that’s how the dialogue came out! FAN: Have you seen any of the roughs from the new Fantastic Four movie? KIRBY: No, nothing... that I’ve seen. FAN: In FF #73, where Daredevil and Spider-Man are in it, and Spider-Man looks suspiciously like John Romita drew it [laughs], do you think the same thing happened there? [alluding to the Superman faces] We weren’t born yesterday!! KIRBY [laughing along with everybody]: Let’s just say that that’s in your estimation! [A fan showed the King a Boy Scout badge Kirby signed for him in 1975.] KIRBY: We had a club called the BBR, which is the Boys’ Brotherhood Republic, and we elected our mayor and I [proudly] was the editor of our little newsletter [see next page]. So it was a nice time to be a young man. A friend of mine went off to Texas and became a newspaper man! I never saw him again. Today it’s easier [to be a comic book artist] than it was in my day. I remember this publisher had a whole story in his hands. It was a Boy Commandos... my story [smiling]. And he says, “I’ll be right with

MICK GRAY: Jack’s probably my biggest influence because I got to work with Mike Thibodeaux when I first started (in comics) and got to ink some of Jack’s stuff before he passed on. What I got was the splash page of Phantom Force #4. When I got up enough nerve to do it—after six months of looking at Sinnott and Royer—I finished it... but within the next two months Kirby died. It was bad losing Jack but I was also sad because I didn’t know how he felt about my inking or even if he ever saw it. During the next year at San Diego I bumped into Thibodeaux. We talked about Kirby and he said, “Oh yeah, Jack saw it and really liked it!” That feedback was really great to have and it was wonderful to know that Jack had gotten to see it and enjoy it. ★ (above) A gorgeous Promethea panorama from the Williams/Gray limited edition portfolio. Characters TM & ©2003 DC Comics.

DUDE TALK We sure do love that dude and his work! Steve Rude’s one of the nicest guys in contemporary comics and his amazing affinity for page design makes his always-anticipated oneshots and mini-series the books to have. Without taking anything away from the dynamic style he developed in his wonderful Nexus work, he incorporated just a dash of Romita in his beautifully-rendered Spider-Man: Lifeline trilogy. A hint of Alex Toth may show up in a Space Ghost illo and Russ Manning in a Magnus/Nexus crossover... but you never lose the uniqueness of Rude. Jack Kirby is, of course, one of his major influences as his stunning penciling on the 1987 Mister Miracle Special and the more recent Thor: Godstorm miniseries, Hulk vs. Superman, X-Men: Children of the Atom, etc., will attest. Conversations about comics are usually fun for me but talking to Steve about the King went beyond that! Here are a few comments culled from a great chat with the Dude (for the Kirby Collector) at Oakland, California’s Wonder Con on April 22, 2001.

you. I’m taking these [pages] to the furnace.” They didn’t care anything about the pages! They threw them into the furnace after the story was done. [Naturally, groans, moans, and low derisive grumbles came out then.] KIRBY: What I did was, as he walked past me, I pulled out one bundle [of pages] which I still have. [happily] And it was from the Boy Commandos! FAN: Where’d you say that furnace was? KIRBY: Ha ha!! DC! It’s just, y’know, that’s what they felt about comics then. They would use ’em, circulate them, profit from them, then burn ’em! Until, as the years passed and people began collecting them, they began to realize the kind of value the comics had. There are guys sitting out there this minute on thousands of dollars! Save ’em!! [The king swept his hand over an old monster page.] I used to have a lot of fun with these stories, especially— FAN: With the names! Those names... of the monsters! [laughs] KIRBY: No, you’re making your own movie. When you tell the stories in images you’re making... a film. I was a filmgoer. I loved movies. And these... are like my own movies. FAN: Was Black Panther the first black super-hero? KIRBY: No. Vykin the Black. Yes, he was in New Gods. [Editor’s Note: Jack was confused here; the Black Panther appeared years before Vykin.] Vykin the Black was a great character. He has these powerful properties like the rest of the gods do. It was a reflection of my own crowd. My best friend Harvey was a black guy and I knew the Oriental guys on Mott Street which was just a couple of blocks away, but the only guys— FAN: Did you know any Irish heroes? [general laughter] KIRBY [apologetically]: I never had! FAN: My name’s Jim Harrington and I’m Irish! [He and Jack shake hands. More laughs.] KIRBY: Actually, an Irish guy, a neighborhood away, and I used to beat the hell out of each other. [the laughs continue] Later, we became friends. When I did begin to draw, I knew all about people. I’d met all kinds.

STEVE RUDE: Kirby’s the kind of guy who’s like an onion skin. You peel back layers and you keep seeing and discovering new things. You realize you’re around the Einstein of comics. I’ve spent my whole life examining Jack Kirby and he gets more profound with time. I think if you’re around comics you have to come to an appreciation for the guy. When I saw Kirby in person I had him sign the issue where the Golden Guardian battled the giant green Jimmy (Jimmy Olsen #136). That was just an incredible sequence. I just had him sign it “to the Dude.” FF #57, I believe, has one of the best full-page spreads Jack ever did... Doom taking the Surfer “on tour” through his ultra high-tech labyrinth. The entire Doom/Surfer series was Wow!! I also liked the issue that followed the Thor/Herc Netherworld saga (Thor #131) and the oversized Spectacular Spider-Man #1 by Romita. Man, it doesn’t get better than this. In looking at JIM Annual #1, I’ll bet you anything that Kirby did the whole story, plot and all, entirely on his own. Perhaps Stan supplied something besides great dialogue, but in the beginning it may have been no more than, “Hey, Jack! Let’s have Thor meet Hercules!” Just a hunch.... ★ (above) Stunning Steve Rude video box art for the recent ’60s Marvel Super-Heroes cartoons compilation. Characters TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

A number of children began to mill around the brick kindergarten school where their younger siblings were cleaning up that day’s classwork. I had grown impatient with this situation of my kid brother’s. Every day, the same thing. An adult from my family would drop me off outside of Mrs. Cooper’s kindergarten schoolhouse to look after my brother until the same adult returned from picking up the laundry, lunch, etc. At first, this had been different and fascinating for me. Having skipped this first round of public education and gone on to first grade in my turn, I liked meeting these smaller kids as they filed out of the small class and had even gotten a kick out of helping them get their modeling clay and watercolor sets cleaned and organized. Mrs. Cooper shrewdly knew how to put us regular elementary students to work. Now, in early summer, I knew how to hold back until the little ones themselves had done the majority of the work. The novelty had worn off and besides, I was a second grader. That little kid stuff didn’t make it with me anymore. On this particular day, a few fourth and fifth graders from my school were talking nearby. They were also there awaiting brothers and sisters and after awhile, they thoughtfully organized us younger ones into games of hideand-go-seek. Our play grew from barelysuppressed giggles into shrieks of laughter and one older boy reminded us that the nearby class was still in session. He walked toward us with a rolled-up periodical in his hand. “Any of you little kids like comics?” he asked. I hadn’t met a child yet who didn’t like

comic books. Despite our need for a few gulps of water, he had our undivided attention. “In this comic book... the Fantastic Four... they’ve got a Negro super-hero,” he said with a broad smile. “What?” someone blurted out in the crowd. “Can I see?” “Do you have it?” “Where is it?!” Questioning kids swirled around the smiling boy from all sides. His copy of FF #53 had been rolled up to fit inside his pants’ pocket but he smoothed it out and slowly turned a few pages for us to see a heroic, dark-clad African king take center stage in a jungle environment unheard of with his new friends (and my favorite team)—the FF. A young girl broke the silence. “Ahhh, that’s Batman!” “That’s not Batman!” A second-grader from the class next to mine (and a boy) snapped back. “Batman’s got a bat on his shirt and Batman’s white!” He had said it. There were definite distinctions. This was another Lee-Kirby sensation, also, as noble and majestic as any of their other characters except this one looked like everyone in our group. He was a Negro and he looked like us. Slowly, our looks of amazement were replaced with happy smiles. “No, this guy’s not Batman,” the older boy went on patiently. “He’s got powers like a big jungle cat. He’s called the Black Panther.” “The Black Panther,” someone muttered approvingly. “He’s probably a villain,” another older boy announced. All eyes shot his way. “Why do you say that?” “Oh, you know colored people are always the bad guys in these things! You know how they treat us!!” Without waiting to investigate the book, the angered boy walked off with a dismissive wave of his hand. Things had changed now. We smaller kids knew vaguely of this thing called prejudice. We’d seen the loving Martin Luther King, Jr. and the fiery Malcolm X on the television news and were somewhat aware of the civil rights movement in other areas. Was that boy right? Was that why colored people were marching—because other people saw us as bad guys—villains? My school, my neighborhood, and the places inhabited by my grandparents and friends—there were no villains there or anywhere about. Everyone went to church on Sunday. Older kids watched their language around younger ones. No one made trouble for anyone else. “Don’t listen to him,” the owner of the comic whispered gently. “He hasn’t even seen the book. The Black Panther is good. He’s a king! He’s rich, too. He’s friends with the Fantastic Four!” He let us scan the pages of the comic and even read aloud some of the word balloons in which T’Challa triumphed over Klaw, the real villain of the tale. I wore a smile inside and out. Suddenly, my kid brother was at my side. I couldn’t wait to tell him the news! “Randy, there’s a Negro super-hero called the Black Panther in that kid’s comic!” I made sure that Randy and as many of his classmates that hadn’t left immediately afterward with family members saw that book. Even Mrs. Cooper came out to take a look. “That’s something,” she beamed, obviously impressed. It was something. It was a time of strong convictions and a time when those convictions spilled out into the streets. It was a time of organizations—the SCLC, the Nation of Islam, the NAACP, the VC, the American Nazi Party, and the KKK. In comics, Stan, Kirby, and Don Heck introduced the Hate Monger and the Sons of the Serpent to represent intolerance in the Marvel Universe. That day, however, there were three groups that filled me with pride. The first was composed of three strangers I’d come to admire—Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Joe Sinnott, who in my gentle imagination, went out of their way to make a simple yet wonderful statement by their realization of a super-powered black man. The second group was the greatest hero team in comics— the fabulous Fantastic Four. And the third group, called the Wakanda, was a magnificent tribe somewhere in a futuristic underground jungle, who had on paper, symbolized all the pride a small group of colored people were feeling on that early Summer afternoon in 1966. KIRBY: ’Cause you don’t know what’s out there. There may be guys with two noses. [chuckling] So that’s why comics are interesting. Because you can imagine what’s out there! What’s out there?! We don’t know. There could be anything. You never know how close

you can come to the real thing. Because when it actually happens, it may be the kind of guy that you thought about. So we don’t tell any fairy tales. What we’re saying is what we think. At least I do... and you can have a lot of fun with it. Your alien doesn’t have to look like mine but he can be... very interesting. The king of comic book art shot a glance at the round wall clock which hung above the store’s display wall. It was nearly time to go. He shook hands with the young men who’d heard his final comments and quietly got his wife’s attention. He was scheduled to stay for another 20 minutes but he wanted to spend that time just looking around the store. Roz Kirby got up, caught her husband’s hand, and after making sure Jack’s massive portfolio was safely put away, walked slowly with him around the store. Kirby pointed to a number of his comics which were on the display wall behind the cash register with a smile. Roz smiled and laughed also, the books no doubt bringing up happy memories for the couple. There was a copy of Forever People #1, with the “anti- establishment” young team motoring past the “establishment” Superman, rushing into a struggle only New Genesis warriors, not a Kryptonian, could win. There were copies of the Avengers, the Sandman of the ’70s, FF #50 and #81, Boys’ Ranch, Kamandi #1, and more. The King politely went on answering queries by those too shy or too awed to ask them before. My brother found out that Bucky Barnes was roughly 16 years of age at his demise. Nobody corrected him when he made mistakes and no one brought up names of individuals who’d taken advantage of him. Some people got Jack and Roz to pose for pictures with them and some gave him thanks for so many spectacular works and good times. Some gave him presents, like me. I presented Kirby with a splash of himself surrounded by six of his immortals. Mrs. Kirby was thrilled but Jack couldn’t hide a moment of disappointment. I had drawn it in my best Kirby style but Jack felt (and rightly so) that this was his style—a graphic vocabulary a lifetime in the making. Where was my style, he was probably thinking. Nevertheless, he was encouraging. “Looks good. How about doing a whole book?” If I’d been thinking, I’d have said, “No, this is your style. I’d never try to get into the industry doing your work. It wouldn’t be right.” Instead, I said something about following other aspirations which brightened him up a little bit. There was only one Kirby, but at this late date in his life, he was perhaps justifiably worried about imitators and opportunists living off of his legacy. He and Mrs. Kirby continued to move around the store until the time came for him to go and those books we wanted signed to go with him. We looked over our treasures. No one was really interested in having our stuff in the mail. Even now, we were really hoping Jack would sign our books before leaving, but his hands weren’t up to it. “You have nothing to worry about,” Roz assured us. “We’ve been doing this for twenty years and we haven’t lost a book yet!” We filled a slip with our names on them and gave them over to the store manager, regretfully. Happily, all went as Roz said. As they departed, a little slowed with time and stooped with age, we couldn’t help noticing the love they had for each other and the happiness they radiated as they connected with yet another group of fans—old friends in a sense. We were all old friends of the King who’d witnessed the miracles Jack had inexpensively produced in our lives and who’d been brought together by special memories of our own on a very special afternoon with Jack Kirby. ★

(previous page, top) Copy of the BBR Newsletter, which Jack edited as a boy. This page shows “K’s Konceptions,” his opportunity to get early art in print, and an editorial by Jack, which makes note of his childhood friend “Tutti” Blau (mentioned earlier in this article). (previous page, bottom) Smilin’ Stan Lee shakes hands with Robert Knuist at a convention in 1994. (below) 1970s Thor sketch done for Kirby fan Ben Clift. Thor TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Special thanks to all the contributors for their time, art, photographs, tapes, and comments on this article!

Comics & Comix’s Palo Alto location’s no longer around, but if you’re in northern California, they’ve got five other locations to serve you. Check ’em out! 61

Technique

The Cosmic Squiggle! or How the King of Comics became the “Squire of Sguiggliture,” by Mark Alexander

(below) The Missing Link? How did Kirby’s wiggly lines, which were originally used as textural ornaments on inanimate objects, make the transition to human bodies? The Kirby/Stone Iron Man may be the answer!

[Note: in TJKC #19, Link Yaco wrote an excellent piece that suggests Kirby’s “squiggles” may have been influenced by abstract modern painters. My research however, advances a different line of conjecture altogether.] omic book art is an extremely diverse field of endeavor. Stylistically, it runs the gamut from simplistic “cartoon” icons, to photo-realism, and everything in-between. In the mid-Sixties, Jack Kirby (aided by Joe Sinnott) staked out a middle ground of the art form, which leaned more toward realism, bolstered by a powerful sense of design. The months between 1965 and 1967 saw a rapid and radical development in Kirby’s drawing style. After he’d settled down to illustrating a mere three titles a month (Thor, the FF, and “Cap”) he was, at last, able to concentrate more on quality than quantity. Suddenly, his figures gained a new-found symmetry and solidity. Even Johnny Storm, once portrayed as a skinny teenager, would have biceps worthy of Captain America. Kirby’s backgrounds became more and more elaborate (particularly his “spacescapes”), and his machinery acquired a near-absurdist complexity. His “solid blacks” became so stylized in their designsense, that they nearly took on a physicality all their own (see the 1970s Black Panther costume). Kirby’s “new look” would owe a great deal to three techniques that were endemic to comic book (or “cartoon”) art, as opposed to real-life representation: (1) the “krackle,” i.e., small, black, multi-functional circles; (2) the The Sinnott squiggle “burst” (straight, tapered “explosion lines”); and (3) the “squiggle.” For an excellent on the Surfer’s left leg; dissertation on the “Kirby Krackle,” see Shane Foley’s article in TJKC #33. In TJKC #9, a perfect synthesis of Joe Sinnott explained the exact tapering technique needed to ink a “Kirby burst,” traditional comic-art and this article (as the title suggests), deals with the “squiggle.” anatomy, and Jack’s To root new abstract lines. out Kirby’s “cosmic squiggle,” one must go back (at least) to the late 1950s. Kirby used decorative patterns on inanimate objects as the precursors to his latter-day squiggles, which—after a decade of experimentation—would finally end up on Jack’s human figures as well. These abstract geometric lines would eventually (in Jack’s later years) end up being a “Kirby cliché” (my conjecture). How did these stylized configurations make the transition from inanimate objects to human bodies? The following letter may, in part, provide the answer. It’s from an old Tales of Suspense, soon after Iron Man became the (postTOS #48) “new” Iron Man:

Dear Stan and Don, You’re working too hard! You must be cracking up! I’m referring to what you’ve done to Iron Man. I mean, this new uniform! Your new Iron Man doesn’t even look like he’s made of iron. The way he suits up, a person could mistake his armor for plain red and yellow cloth. Why don’t you just change his name to Transistor Man and go from there? Don Eden, Omaha, Nebr.

Flo Steinberg claims that Lee himself decided which fan-letters were to be printed (which indicates that he probably read Eden’s letter) and—as every Silver Age fan remembers—Stan did his best to acquiesce to reader demands. This is strictly conjecture, but it’s possible that Lee directed Kirby (and/or Chic Stone, who was Jack’s primary inker at the time) to make Iron Man’s “new” armor look more “metallic.” At some point (I’d say Avengers #6, left), either Kirby or Stone decided that drawing wavy lines on the armor would be the best way to do this. Moreover, it’s possible that neither artist was acting on a mandate from Lee. Perhaps Stone simply interpreted Kirby’s pencils differently than any other inker before him. Prior to Chic Stone’s tenure at Marvel, there were no “squiggles” seen on Iron Man to denote a metallic veneer (this also applies to Jack’s other iron-clad icon, Dr. Doom). Various inkers before Stone, interpreted Kirby’s lines on the metal as solid blacks, slash marks, and even speckles, but not “squiggles.” (Note: most inkers used “feathering,” a technique that employs a series of parallel lines, which at some point may converge into a solid mass). With Chic Stone at the helm, however, Iron Man’s panoply suddenly began to show signs of primitive “squiggling.” Therefore, Stone may indeed be the key to all this. Just as many people concur that Joe Sinnott’s inking influenced the way Kirby drew, Chic may have influenced Jack in this particular case. At this point (Avengers #6 and #7), these lines were nowhere near as stylized or design-oriented as they were to become; nevertheless, the squiggles had arrived, and they were here to stay. The Kirby-Stone cover of Avengers #7 (Aug. 1964, right), which was published soon after Iron Man’s squiggles first appeared, was another break-through. On the arms of The Enchantress, we see what may

be Kirby’s earliest use of squiggles in a nonrepresentational, purely decorative context. Seen here, they do not function as lines that denote anatomy (i.e., musculature), or folds in clothing (they seem to contradict a normal response to gravitational pull). Nor are they shadows (what type of light source would cast shadows as wildly exotic as these?). In this instance, Kirby is using his squiggles to simply fill up space on The Enchantress’ arms. It’s significant that Jack would test this technique on a female figure, because Kirby tended to render his women in a soft, curvy manner, with no muscles whatsoever. The usual lines found on Jack’s sinewy super-heroes, i.e., slash marks, feathering, etc. (which denoted musculature) were, to Kirby’s eye, inappropriate for female anatomy. Jack may have been looking for a way to “fill out” his zoftig beauties, in a visually-appealing, non-muscular manner. Perhaps, noticing how good Stone’s wiggly-lines looked on Iron Man’s armored limbs, Kirby decided he’d use them on human bodies as well. Jack didn’t give a damn that these abstractions weren’t found in “real” life. They looked good, and that’s all that mattered. Soon, the squiggles were appearing everywhere on Kirby’s characters. Where the artist had once used horizontal lines to denote “folds” in footwear (which are sometimes called “pinch marks”), he would now adorn his boots with folds and squiggles. Later, the squiggles would often replace the horizontal boot lines altogether, as Kirby increasingly chose to abstract, rather than represent (see example). Even human fingers, gloved or otherwise, began to acquire the “squiggles.” How could these same designs work on both hands and feet? Well, in much the same way that his “krackles” could denote elements as diverse as fire and water—they just did! These strange symbols could only have been conceived by someone

with an intuitive genius for design; i.e., if you think Kirby’s squiggles were merely haphazard scribbling, then try to come up with some yourself that look as good as the lines on “Pretty Pyra,” in Kamandi #34 (see sidebar). You can’t do it! For better or worse, as time passed, Kirby’s figures became increasingly dependent on his “squiggliture.” In my view, these non-objective patterns worked best when used in conjunction with “traditional” anatomy lines, such as feathering and slash marks. In his later years, however, Kirby would often just outline a figure, Check out the “squiggs” on then fill it in with solid blacks and this babe! It’s possible that, squiggles, foregoing any trace of conKirby’s best ever squiggling, ventional human anatomy whatsoevhands down, was on “Pretty er. Kirby’s detractors—who’d long Pyra” (Kamandi #34, Oct. complained about his exaggerat1975). It wins in two ways: the ed male anatomy—were now longest, uninterrupted squiggle aghast at his total abstraction (on her left side, from her of anatomy. (Note: in regard to chest down to her foot!), and the most amazingly unique Jack’s “exaggerated anatomy,” line-pattern ever drawn, on he was, as usual, ahead of her right leg—proof positive his time. Today’s artists that this technique, at its would portray Rick Jones abstract best, worked like as muscle-bound as mad. Would she (or Galaxy Kirby’s Incredible Hulk!). Green, far left) have looked So, in regard to Jack’s half as good without ’em? later work, the question Pyra TM & ©2003 DC Comics Galaxy Green TM & ©2003 Kirby Estate is this: did Kirby use these strange lines in an effort to break new ground, and perfect a comic art style that was (top left) For ages, Jack uniquely his own, or was he simply seeking a used horizontal lines to shortcut, i.e., a speedier, easier way to churn out denote “folds” (a.k.a. “pinch marks”) on his pages in a medium that he was rapidly boots. At some point in the losing interest in? We’ll never know. late ’60s, the folds were One thing is certain however, as page two of garnished with squiggles, Kamandi #34 (see sidebar) clearly proves: and finally, the pinch marks When these “squiggle” lines did work, they disappeared altogether, as worked like mad. They were an effective, Kirby increasingly chose groundbreaking comic art technique that no to abstract, rather than other artist could lay claim to. They were represent. supremely stylized, wildly abstract, totally original, and uniquely—Jack Kirby! ★

PRETTY PYRA

(left and right) By the mid-1970s, Kirby was experimenting with wildly-abstract human forms. Makarri’s (left, from Eternals #5 cover, Nov. 1976) left arm has a a few lines that allude to musculature, but the rest of his physique is rendered in non-objective geometric shapes and lines. Result: a neat total abstraction of anatomy.

In his later years (such as Silver Star #6, right, Jan. 1984), Jack’s design lines looked as if they were rendered hurriedly or haphazardly. Had they become a Kirby cliche? Makarri TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc. Silver Star TM & ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate.

How to Kreatively Kirbify

Technique

by Ian Cairns ack Kirby was a storyteller of prodigious imagination, an artist of dynamic power and romantic lyricism: A creative catalyst to unnumbered fans and fellow professionals. His life travelled from D-Day beaches to California sunshine, which experiences measured the breadth of his art. Five decades of unmatched output producing a body of work constantly moving the form forward. Am I going to explain away all that in two pages? No. What I am offering is a single isolated technique, one I use to Kirbify my own fanzine drawings. I have no proof that Kirby ever worked or thought like this, but I am sure the spirit of the man would not be offended if following this gives you a positive sense of fun or satisfaction in your own Kirby-inspired work. The drawing technique itself is actually of secondary importance. On its own it will give you no more than a nicely designed still life. You have to know and believe in your characters. It is your emotional honesty towards them that will give your drawings life. So before you pick up a pencil, dive into their psyche, their motivations, and their whole reason for being. Okay! With all respect to Big John and Stan the Man, my Silver Surfer is not a mawkish adolescent that Daddy has grounded. He is a cosmic energy being at one with the intergalactic tides, the ultimate free spirit. He has touched the infinite, travelling the Universe with Galactus and found meaning and value in following his given purpose. Then on Earth, he eats of the apple and questions, “Why?” What meaning can there be in destroying so many lives? The Surfer rejects his god, but his god will not be rejected. The universe continues on. It is the Surfer who is now locked to the prison of his own doubt, a homeless spirit adrift in the material world. As a man of faith, these must have been unsettling questions for Kirby. Who was responsible for the Holocaust, God or Man? Is God just a powerless Nebbish? If you reject your religious heritage, does that not mean in some sense that Hitler wins after all? God may not be a beneficent Highfather, but a satanic manifestation of the Darkseid! Is the choice ours to make? Did Kirby put all that into his work? I think he did. He did not pander, exploit or talk down to his audience. He used the popular forms of youthful entertainments and sculpted metaphors to communicate his own views and experiences of life to following generations as honestly as he could. He was human and his characters were human too. That is why they still resonate to many people. So do not get distracted and play games with the surface appearance of the metaphor. Look through to the underlying humanity. If you are drawing Dr. Doom do not get caught up

with the mask design, billowy cape or bloodshot eyeballs. See him as a vain, bald monomaniac who will not leave his corporate castle without his toupee. He is a self-aggrandizing despot who wants to entrap and steal your very being. He may be the king of his own small country, but put him in his place and pity him his arrogant delusions and they will pass. You are the Silver Surfer; the stars are your birthright, you might feel angry, confused or trapped and helpless sometimes, but you are an untarnished spirit. Nobody is going to grind you down. How do I put all of this into one drawing? I don’t, any more than we put all of our beliefs into every conversation. We have them and hold to them but tailor our words to the moment and whom we are talking with. Treat your drawing as such, it is a conversation with a friend about some recent life experience. Find that spark in yourself and then dress it up in the wider metaphor. My Surfer has both an immediate emotionalism and the broader context; i.e., Kirby’s creative river cut deep into the rock and my own reflections on its surface. How do I put down on paper such a jumble of vague mental imagery? I start by listing what the Surfer could be doing; some kind of bursting out, escape to freedom, which implies he is held back somehow. Is it the weight of responsibility for a child’s world on his shoulders? Perhaps he is shouting for joy at his release or in anger at his frustrations. Is he reaching out in hope to his future? These are my islands to build on. If I secure them, the picture should start to build itself. I do this by placing my Kirby framework onto the paper; initially this is just two vanishing points with radiating overlapping lines of force. This grid is our compositional skeleton. All we do now is cartoon the dramatic elements onto it. It sounds easy, but you will find the hardest part is in not correcting yourself. As the picture develops the temptation is to get lost in the details, correct a knee or elbow that doesn’t look right or give the silvery skin a surface sheen. Don’t. View this process as a house of cards that will collapse if you knock it. Disjoint the figure in your mind. Don’t think anatomical accuracy, think isolated segments. Keep it loose and roughly jigsaw a pattern of overlapping symbols onto our grid. Remember that the limbs of a moving figure oppose each other and that the receding limbs converge on the vanishing points. First drop some guides onto the grid for the figure’s center and extremities, then try and visualize a specific action that the figure may be doing. What parts of the body are thrust out at the viewer? Place these as simple flat shapes. Next we start to define the figure, working into the picture plane—i.e. top shapes first—connecting the figure up in layers of depth, following the grid until we have a complete figure. Having sketched out the Surfer we now need his board. Put another vanishing point between his legs then grid and sketch this in too. For my background I literally put the weight of a world onto the Surfer’s shoulders. This then gave me the basis for a curved framework for the background. With the picture all mapped out, I now correct and tidy up the details. It might seem that I’ve written an overblown piece on a simple drawing technique. That’s because I want to emphasize that for Kirby his draftsmanship was a means to an end: a means of communication from his heart to yours. The reality is he laid out his inner self onto the page and it is that which really Kirbified his work. ★

Kirbytech! by Eric Reinders

is anatomy was “inaccurate,” but—of course—so what? The point was dynamic impact. Still, when drawing humans, they certainly looked quite human—within the meaningful limits of the human form. As a purely visual spectacle, Kirby’s art was especially powerful where he was no longer constrained by the requirements of human normality—in other words, where he felt free to depict characters (robots, aliens) in radically unhuman ways: his non-human characters have multiple limbs, strange helmets, and bold mesmerizing patterns on their bodies. His machines too were characters with their own voices, moods, and subtle implications. With his largest machines, he was even less constrained by “realism.” I took some time to copy some of Kirby’s machinery, to see what I could learn from the process. I am referring mostly to his DC and later work. During the last few years of his life, his machinery grows intimidatingly wild, with building-sized computers like Picasso paintings. His machinery is composed of certain recurring motifs, certain basic structures: cubes, columns, planes, but always with a strong sense of dimension, like Cubist Swiss cheese. It’s not flat. It’s not predictable. Tubular sections have their distinctive metallic squiggle, which could be sectioned in various ways, similar to flexible armor. We see complex tubing mazes. There are sudden, random shapes and lines, like crazy circuitry. Sequences of circles and squares, are joined in a variety of ways to segments containing random shapes. Each vista nests in a larger frame. Think of those Russian nesting eggs, where each egg contains a smaller egg. We, the smallest egg, look outward at the walls of machinery. The

entire environment is throbbing with energy. Kirbytech is organic, it grows like a plant or a coral reef. The workings, the guts of the machine are often exposed, and yet also mysterious, simultaneously revealing and baffling. We see many things, but we don’t know what they are. Is that a button one could press? Or a colored light? Or a section of circuitry? Or a purely symbolic design? Every machine is custom-made to order, and custom fitted: there is no sense of mass production—if we see three views in a row, each will be distinctive, not the same unit three times. A real science lab is full of computers, all covered, their gray surfaces interrupted only by brand names. No brand names on Kirby’s machines! (But they have “Kirby” written all over them.) Never an inch of plain, gray surface. Compare this to John Byrne’s machinery, which is staid and functional in comparison, and thus in some ways more believable. Of the artists I have seen, only Steve Rude approaches Kirby’s sheer fantasy of technology. Rude’s machines are like Kirby’s, with a martini. Great Kirbytech: Mother Box, Metron’s chair, Pyra’s UFO in Kamandi, the Celestials from The Eternals, Reed’s lab or in fact the entire top of the Baxter Building. Because of the distinctive stretching power of Reed Richards, there is a wonderful sense of freedom in design, because there was no need to make the machinery ergonomic, no need to have all the controls within a normal arm’s length. “At one’s fingertips” could be thirty feet away: Reed is seen holding a contraption in one hand while adjusting the fine tuning on a knob conveniently located forty feet away on a section of the colossal device otherwise entirely inaccessible. Reed Richards never just sat watching a computer screen. Operating Kirby’s computers became an aerobic activity, something you’d have to stand up for. Of course the Thing was always hefting some bus-sized component. Pure design, untrammeled by any humdrum ergonomic necessities! One might consider some similar cases: Kirby’s rocks. His star-scapes. Imitating Kirby’s technology, one perceives something of his sense of abstract design, achieving spectacular effects from the unexpected arrangement of shapes and his “random” lines. I’ve tried to recreate, imitate, or somehow rationalize his “random” lines, without much success. In other cases, for example in Desaad’s lab or my favorite, Pretty Pyra’s space ship, there seems to be no distinction between a particular machine and the physical infrastructure holding it: everything is covered with screens and gauges and ducts and so on. Planet-sized machines! As if we are inside a huge machine. Sometimes the characters seem to be walking on computers. So there is a blurring of machine-vehicle-building-body. Especially when you see his un-inked pencils of cities, the buildings seem like machines. There is often a metallic sheen, on things, a shininess, with lots of chrome. A shiny, silvery floor surface can be indicated with lines going directly downward from objects such as chairs and people. The view screens through which the characters communicate are rarely symmetrical. Rectangular doors? Bah! Why just have one barrel coming out of a gun, when you have room for two or three? And why can’t I go into a store and buy a chair like the chairs in Kirby’s art? I’m sure we’d go for a nice line in Kirbytech furniture, right? How about a Kirbytech computer monitor? A Kirbytech car? ★ 65

Technique

(top) Splash page of “The Negative Man.” Kirby sometimes drew splash pages before he even knew what the story was going to be about. This one seems to have been drawn from a script, because it lacks the boldness of his own splashes from Alarming Tales and Black Magic—which is also an argument that Kirby did not write this story himself.

(right) Cover to House of Mystery #84 (Mar. 1959, reprinted in HOM #194, Sept. 1971). Not Kirby. Not interesting. We included this in case anyone wants to buy this issue and needs to know what it looks like.

(right) Page 2, panel 4. Kirby Krackle, or a really intense electrical shock?

(bottom) Page 3, panel 3. Krackle as it was intended: As a way of drawing solar flares.

More Krackle! by Ger Apeldoorn he importance of Kirby Krackle to his cosmic look and style can hardly be overstated. It has been said that an artist’s style is nothing more than a way of representing what he sees; but with the invention of those black dots, Jack Kirby made it possible to show stuff that had never been seen before. In the bonus commentary on the recently released DVD of Disney’s cartoon feature Atlantis, we can even hear the directors explain they tried to find a threedimensional translation of “Kirby Krackle,” because one of the designers for the movie, Mike Mignola, had included it in all his drawings of underwater explosions. In his excellent article in The Jack Kirby Collector #33, Shane Foley traces the genesis of this drawing technique back to a period in late 1966. He even points to a photograph of a quasar discovered in 1963 (published in the Reader’s Digest Book of Strange Stories and Amazing Facts, but taken earlier) as a possible inspiration point. And indeed it is astonishing (not to mention strange or amazing, or any other of those comic book title adjectives) to see how much those blazing (sorry, couldn’t help it) stars look like they have been drawn by the master himself. It’s like looking at the sunlight in the water and thinking it must have been painted on by Noel Sickles. I was completely sold on this theory—until I found another example of Kirby Krackle seven years earlier. After Mainline folded and the Jack Kirby/Joe Simon partnership ended, Jack Kirby worked all over the place. He was even hired by DC to do some horror

stories for House of Mystery. I am not quite sure if he wrote them himself or if he was working from a script provided by editors. Everything I have read about DC seems to imply most of the editors held a tight control over their talent. On the other hand, it has been suggested that “Challengers Of The Unknown” was a concept Kirby brought along from the inheritance of his later period with Joe Simon; and everything we know about Jack Kirby tells us he was at least inclined to come into the office with a couple of suggestions. Anyway, in the March 1959 issue of House Of Mystery he included an eight-page story called “The Negative Man.” It’s a story about two scientists, Dan Marble and Kirk Vale, who accidentally create a negative man and have to hunt him down at their own risk before he destroys the nearby town. I’ll just come out and say it... the Negative Man is drawn like a flaming Torch in a lab overcoat surrounded by Kirby Krackle. He first appears on the splash, lifting a freighter out of the water with tendrils of fire, while the two scientists look on in horror. Here the “krackle” serves two purposes: To give body to the flames that lick the outside of the figure and to delineate him from the black of the night. It is immediately clear what the inspiration of this incarnation of the Kirby Krackle is; it’s photos of the flames around the sun, such as the ones we can see when the sun’s corona is visible when there is a solar eclipse. This by itself would have been remarkable, but nothing more than that; but in the course of the story, Kirby starts to play around with the graphic possibilities of this visual trick and we can see him discovering the krackle—before filing it away in his head for later use. While experimenting with artificial lightning on a model railway town (those crazy scientists will try everything) Kirk Vale’s watch band comes loose and touches the miniature high voltage tower, causing the whole charge of radioed energy to course through his body. To illustrate the magnitude of this, his body is surrounded by dots of black energy (or maybe the energy is in the light in-between the dots; I do not have a science degree). This to me is the first real appearance of Kirby Krackle and I

would be disappointed if it isn’t mentioned in the next Overstreet Price Guide. Anyway, Dan Marble (the coolest of the two, proving someone has thought too much about the names in this story) replaces the fuse in the fuse box and returns to his colleague, who

has survived the ordeal; but then a burning figure rises from his body and attacks him. He throws his flashlight, but it melts in the creatures hands. The figure is drawn in the same way all through the story, with fiery tendrils against as much black as possible. He does not look like the Torch of the Forties or the later Johnny Storm. In fact, not having him look like that may have been an impulse to find a new way of drawing a character like this for Kirby. As Dan Marble says in the story, this is not a man on fire, but “a mass of destructive energy.” Well, the creature goes on a rampage, eats bullets, lifts the freighter, destroys a tank and is finally stopped by three bulldozers pushing lead shields. Apparently in the DC universe lead was the most powerful metal. It should be noted that when there is no black background, the krackle doesn’t appear. That’s because the black dots are only used to give form to the white-hot energy of the Negative Man, just as I am sure it is intended to delineate cosmic energy in Kirby’s later use of it. In the end Kirk Vale catches up with the creature and sprays him with water, making the energy return to his body. When that happens there is another krackle of energy behind him, this time even more abstract than when the radioed energy first hit him. There are also streaks of white against black, which Kirby used later as well to indicate explosions of energy instead of “krackling” pools. As a bonus, in this panel (above) the action is accompanied by a very appropriate sound effect—CRACK— proving that at least the word we Kirbyites have chosen to indicate our master’s cosmic energy invention is right. Two more points have to be made. I am convinced the inking of this story was done by Jack Kirby himself. As Carmine Infantino said in his interview in TJKC #34, Kirby used inkers in the Fifties only to trace his pencils, after which he added the brushed blacks himself. The tracings have the same sketchy thinness as some of the “Green Arrow” stories from that same

period that are attributed to Roz Kirby’s inks. Not an unimportant point here, because the Kirby dots used here wouldn’t yet have appeared in his pencils. Because he knew he would be inking himself, Kirby often was a very lean penciler in those days. The Negative Man appears on the cover as well, with his “parents” Kirk and Dan. The cover is not by Kirby but in the generic DC house style, so whoever did this is anyone’s guess. The creature is similar enough to the one on the inside to allow for the possibility the artist had seen Kirby’s art before drawing it; but the flames and black dots are not drawn nearly as bold as Kirby’s. Only on his head can we see three separate dots. Other than that, every bit of blackness is connected to the background. A lot more “krackle” is used by the colorist, to give the creature an orange dotted contour on the inside of his body. These dots look a lot like sunspots and as an effect are quite similar to the later Kirby Krackle; but this is an accident and never seen afterwards. So why did Kirby wait seven-and-a-half years to use this effect again? I think an important point in his artistic career is when he started including inking effects in his pencil drawings. It’s the same with the Kirby Bricks. They were there during all of his career when he did his own inking, disappeared when he started working for Marvel, and didn’t reappear until he started adding them in his pencil work, probably at the same point Stan Lee and Martin Goodman started paying Kirby more per page... ...Kirby Bricks, you say? Yeah, well... that’s an article for another day. ★

(top) Page 4, panel 5. Kirby is clearly enjoying the possibilities of this krackle stuff. (center) Page 8, panel 3. Crackle or krackle? Compare this to the bands of energy on the figure emerging from the Negative Zone on the cover of Fantastic Four #177 (below, and seen in full on page 51 of TJKC #33). There will be a test afterwards.

(below) Here’s the top half of the second page of the 1978 Silver Surfer Graphic Novel; the bottom half was on page 65 of this issue. It’s included here just because it’s so darn pretty and krackly. Silver Surfer TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Technique

(this spread) Examples of swipes from Jack’s work. It leads us to wonder: Joe Simon has said he did a lot of the layouts for Jack over the years. Perhaps Joe, as layout man, was responsible for some of the pilfering?

sepiwS ybriK hen most people hear the words Kirby swipe they think of another artist swiping a pose or scene originally done by Jack. It’s so common it’s not funny; but this article isn’t about Jack being swiped, but rather about Jack himself doing the swiping! A few issues back TJKC published a picture of the painting by WW II artist Joseph Hirsch that Kirby based his dramatic cover to Foxhole #1 on. This got me thinking about what other examples of Jack borrowing from other artists and such I could track down. That Hirsch painting, by the way, was originally published in a book called Men Without Guns (about the U.S. Army Medical Corps) put out in 1945 while Kirby was recovering (in a U.S. Army Hospital coincidentally) from his frozen feet which he got while serving with Patton’s Third Army. So I started digging through the old Kirby Krypt (as my collection is affectionately known) and here’s a few I came up with. As early as the 1975 fanzine Nostalgia Journal #5, people were talking about Kirby swiping the look of his character The Demon from Harold Foster’s Prince Valiant where Val disguises himself by pulling the skin of a goose over his head. In 1994 Greg Theakston wrote, in his notes on the back of the 21st Century Archives Comic Art Tribute to Joe Simon and Jack Kirby card set, how Jack had used an illustration from a magazine page as his model for the cover of Police Trap #2. Greg believed that this illustration had come from a post-WW II issue of Esquire magazine but knew little else about it. Now, I own both the original art to that cover as well as the actual magazine page from Kirby’s picture file that Greg was talking about, and nowhere on it was there any clue as to either the artist or the magazine in which it was printed, so this was the start of a journey of discovery. I began by figuring out who the artist was by researching American magazine illustrators until I came up with the name Robert Riggs. From other similar illustrations of police life I was pretty sure he was the one. I picked up a catalog of Riggs’ work on eBay and, lo and behold, there was not only a copy of the picture titled “Cops at Ease in the Muster Room of a Station” but also the name of the magazine in which it appeared. It was not a post-WW II Esquire but rather a 1939 issue of Fortune magazine focusing on the World’s Fair and New York City. This painting was one of a series on the NYPD which Riggs had done, some in color and some, like “Muster Room,” in graytones. I quickly found and purchased a copy of the magazine to positively i.d. it as the source of the swipe. The story doesn’t end there. On the back of the

Kirby Swipes

by Tom Morehouse

page were two other Riggs’ paintings—one of which Jack also swiped from, this time for a Mainline (S&K’s selfpublishing company) in-house ad (this one’s from my copy of Foxhole #2) for Police Trap. Both are pictured here. Now inspired, I continued searching and came up with—following a conversation with fellow Kirby fan Jim Steranko— a copy of the Holling C. Hollings Book of Cowboys from which Jack lifted a bit of wild west scenery that he used in Boys’ Ranch #2. As you can see, like all of his swipes, Kirby didn’t copy the scene exactly but took key elements and built upon them. I was on a roll now and thought back to 1963 and my early issues of Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos. As a child I was always interested in learning about history. My grandfather had served with “Blackjack” Pershing in WW I and my dad had been on a PT boat in WW II, so our house was full of books about both these wars. When I’d originally read Sgt. Fury #3 there was something about one of the panels, a scene of German soldiers beside an armored troop carrier, that seemed vaguely familiar. Even as an 11-year-old, I knew I recognized it. I decided to try and track down the source! My current occupation as a teacher of U.S. history has prompted me to acquire quite a few books about WW II myself and so I began to pour through them looking for that familiar image. The results of that search are pictured here. Compare these panels from Sgt. Fury #3, 5 and 6 to these U.P.I. and A.P. photos which appeared in Reader’s Digest, Time-Life and Associated Press pictorial histories of WW II. I found my sources all right, and something else as well. In looking through my materials on WW II propaganda I came across this 1942-43 War Bonds poster (right) that bears an uncanny resemblance to the cover of Boy Commandos #8. Again, not an exact copy, but there’s no doubt Jack used it as his inspiration. Now if only someone could have told him how to spell the name of Japan’s capital city! Well, that’s all for now. I’ll keep my eyes open for more “Kirby swipes” and if I come across any I’ll be sure to share them with you in future issues. In the meantime, if you know of any others, don’t hesitate to let me know! ★ 69

The Kirby Burst!

Technique

Other Bursts:

Blasts! Eruptions! Concussions! Paroxysms! Earth-shattering explosions, and bursts by the barrel-full, all in the grand Kirby tradition! by Mark Alexander!

Repressed Emotion, Tension, & Release f there’s any underlying psychological theme in Kirby’s art, it would be repressed anger. Anger toward the bullying gangs who stalked his neighborhood during his formative years, and (later), anger toward the Hebrew-hating Nazis he encountered in the war. As an adult, Kirby repressed his rage for co-writers who took credit for his ideas, and editors who pulled the plug on his fondest, most ambitious projects, such as The New Gods. In Kirby’s art, this repressed anger would often manifest itself as tension, which is one-half of a musical effect known as tension and release. Kirby definitely knew how to render the tension-andrelease effect in a sequential narrative. In a comic, it would work like this: imagine the Thing’s granite-like fist slowly drawing back to decimate an adversary. Therein is your tension. Kirby’s next panel would, most assuredly, capture the scene’s prime moment, which would be the moment of impact...

I DIAGONAL TELEPATHIC

RADIOACTIVE

“moment of impact” effect (2 & 3) wherein the burst lines intersect into points, while the other burst (4) was more a precursor to his later-day explosions. Geometrically, both were based on a circle, and both were replete with sound-effects (although, as Magritte would

have argued, it’s not really sound, it’s just lines on paper). These “cartoony” special effects (2 & 3) would gradually fade into obscurity, as Kirby began to experiment (exclusively) with refining and stylizing the type of burst seen in example 4. Fast forward twenty years. Kirby is now working for Martin Goodman, churning out weak imitations of the classic 1950s E.C. horror comics. In “X, the Thing That Lived!” (TTA #20, June 1961), Kirby’s burst (5) has evolved, and now has all the iconic properties of his future explosions (i.e., late 1960s1980s). The inker here is Dick Ayers, who (unlike some) obviously had the chops to pull it off. This Kirby-burst denotes terror, and could be thought of as an emotional paroxysm. As such, one might regard the phenomenon as an outburst (in this case, of fear), rather than a burst. And so, with the “paroxysm effect,” we’ve reached a tangent; i.e., all of Kirby’s bursts are either caused by, or indicative of two distinctly dissimilar phenomenons. They’re either kinetic, or non-kinetic by nature. The “kinetic burst,” results from a discharge (i.e., eruption) of force or energy, while the nonkinetic, are symptomatic of emotional intangibles (surprise, shock, etc.), or physical metamorphism, where no external energy is apparent. An example would be Bruce Banner, standing stockstill, as he changes to the Hulk (6). In this case, Kirby’s (nonkinetic) burst would emphasize the dramatic spectacle that the reader is witnessing, even though there’s no

COSMIC

CONCUSSIVE

...and there’s your release! The predominant element that legitimizes these “clobberin’ time” panels is the illustrative special effect commonly called the “Kirby-burst.” It was explosiveness, dynamism, and Kirby’s repressed rage unleashed, personified in pencil. Rooting out the genesis of these explosion lines (which can denote phenomenons as diverse as simple embarrassment to nuclear holocausts) is impossible; they’ve been a characteristic of Kirby’s art since the very beginning. Example (1) is a “Believe It or Not” type strip that Kirby produced for Lincoln Newspaper Features circa 1937. It’s one of Jack’s earliest published works (inked by the artist). Here the surrounding explosion lines are used for dramatization; i.e., to emphasize the awe-inspiring nature of the subject.

PRIDE

SUPERFLUOUS Did a rather mundane panel of an android with a cell-phone warrant a Kirby Burst, or was Jack merely filling up space? (FF #96, Mar. 1970). All characters in this article TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Intangibles Rendered in Abstract One of the most challenging jobs a cartoonist has, is to illustrate that which is intangible (e.g., emotion, speed, odor, etc.). Whenever an artist invents a new way to represent the invisible, there’s always a chance that it will be picked up by other artists (so says Scott McCloud). Kirby certainly didn’t invent “the burst”; it probably evolved even before the comic book itself. He did, however, use this gimmick to a more effective degree than anyone before or since. In Kirby’s hands, these abstract diagrammatic lines became so dynamic and stylized, that they took on a physical presence all their own. It’s impossible to think of Jack’s Silver Age work without them.

The Nature of the Burst In the 1940s Kirby generally used two types of bursts, both kinetic by nature—that is, resulting from motion. One was his

dynamism, or movement in the panel. Simply put, the kinetic burst denotes motion, while the nonkinetic burst denotes emotion.

The FF “Burst” onto the Scene Right off the bat, in the Fantastic Four’s premiere issue, Kirby utilized his bursts to convey a variety of different phenomenons, including shock (7), dramatization (8 & 9), metamorphism (10), and illumination (11). Jack’s “illuminative burst” (obviously) denotes blinding or overpowering light, and it’s the only burst in this set besides (10), that represents a visible phenomenon as opposed to an invisible event. Note the dissimilar iconic properties of FF #l’s burst panels: (7) and (8) are multi-layered, (9) is sparse, and Sue’s (10) is notably weak (because she’s a female?). Only the illuminative burst (11) is structurally similar to Kirby’s later-day explosions. Over time, Kirby’s bursts would lose all sense of individuality, and become patently stabilized.

8 11 10

The Best & Worst of the Burst QUESTION: When you ink an explosion, do you use a ruler for those straight, tapered explosion lines? JOE SINNOTT: Oh, sure. I always used a ruler for those. I went with the 201 Hunt pen, and I was able to really press down on the Hunt without it splitting or breaking. I had a certain technique for doing those lines; I would really press hard. I was able to get these really thick-&-thin lines, and I always went from the border in, and flick it, so to speak. I would do it quite rapidly; I was quite fast with the ruler. (Joe Sinnott to John Morrow, in TJKC #9) Unfortunately for Kirby, the quality and effectiveness of his special-effect panels were ultimately in the hands of his delineators. Inkers who had the right technique (and took the time to do it right) could make these abstract lines come to life. Kudos

to Ayers, Stone, Giacoia, and (particularly) Joe Sinnott. On the other hand, those who rushed through their assignments could significantly compromise this gimmick, in regard to Jack’s original intent. Examples (12) and (13) are from JIM #101, where Kirby’s original explosion was somewhat lost in the translation to India ink (by George Roussos).

Note the “smudge” in the bottom right corner— they didn’t call him “Inky” Roussos for nothin’! Other Kirby collaborators who fall into the “bad-burst bunch,” are Reinman, Heck, and (particularly) Colletta. Note the Kirby/ Colletta burst (14) from FF Annual #3. This “minimalist” approach that Vinnie took to Kirby’s elaborately-rendered panels alienated a legion of Kirby fans, and made Colletta the most maligned inker in comics history. Does anyone wanna bet that the original pencils were more detailed?

beyond), taking his rage-filled explosion lines with him, and using them with great effect throughout his illustrious career—quite appropriate for a man who was bursting at the seams with talent and explosive ideas. ★ (Author’s addendum: Thanks to the incomparable Will Eisner (who coined the term “special-effects art”). He was the first to articulate concepts of this type; and to Scott McCloud for picking up Eisner’s torch. Finally, to Jim Ottaviani, for his humorous and insightful views on “Kirbytech” (in TJKC #19). He proves that certain TJKC articles (such as this one) shouldn’t be taken too seriously.)

Kirby Explodes!! (The Late 1960s) Certainly, Jack’s Captain America stories had their share of panel-explosions (think of all those spectacular punches). The raw power inherent in Thor also required a plethora of burst panels (most of which were undoubtedly neutralized by Colletta). I prefer, however, to focus on The Fantastic Four. When you think of the FF’s latter-day permutations, specifically the backgrounds, you can’t help but think of the Kirby burst (and krackles)—ad infinitum. It’s my conjecture that toward the end of his FF run, Kirby seemed to be looking for a shortcut to drawing backgrounds (see FF #94-102). Often times he would render a figure (or a head) large enough to fill the entire panel, and many latter-day panels contained nothing but air around the figures. Bursts and krackles provided Kirby with an easy and expedient way to fill up space. As such, they were employed to an extreme, almost to the point of parody. Perhaps Kirby felt if he could tell the story with less background details (which in many cases were superfluous), then so be it. Kirby would go on, from Marvel to National, then back to Marvel (and

In this scene from FF #59 (Feb. 1967), Kirby—possibly in a nostalgic mood—reverted to his old-school “moment of impact” burst from the 1940s (see examples 2 and 3). Too bad Joe Simon wasn’t around to provide the special effects! Fantastic Four TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

TheAs mentioned FF & the “B.P.I. Seismograph” earlier, Kirby’s FF stories had burst panels from Day One; he just didn’t employ them as often in the old days. To show their growth, here’s an average “bursts-per-issue” ratio divided by ten-issue increments. Amazingly, the smallest number of bursts-per-issue (or “b.p.i.”) were found in both FF #25 & 26 (the Hulk vs. Thing slugfest)—barely two apiece! The all-time greatest b.p.i. was in FF #75 which contained a staggering 32 burst panels out of 86 total frames (that issue came out two months before Silver Surfer #1, so could this have been Jack blowing off some steam over learning that John Buscema was getting the Surfer book?). Surprisingly, I could only find two pages that contained a burst effect in every panel (FF #53, pg. 13 and #75, pg. 12). I thought there would be a lot more. Apparently, Jack knew better than to go totally over the top with this gimmick. Still, this graph may—or may not— coincide with his relative frustration level at Marvel in the ’60s. 25 20

Average Bursts Per Issue of FF

15 10 5 #1-10 11-20 21-30 31-40 41-50 51-60 61-70 71-80 81-90 91-100

Technique

The Evolution of the Human by Will Murray ne of the most fascinating aspects of Jack Kirby’s Fantastic Four is the evolution of the Thing over the course of the series’ early years. He goes from a shapeless brown blob to the chiseled rocky heroic Thing we know and love. This is an amazing example of how one artist can take a crude character conception and transform it into something unique and wonderful. I was as surprised as anyone when I saw in The Jack Kirby Collector #33 that Kirby had been drawing the rocky Thing as early as FF #15 (pencils shown below)— and crestfallen. I’ve long been a big fan of the “cobblestone” version of Ben Grimm as inked by Dick Ayers. The natural evolution of the 1961-66 Thing turns out to be really a tug of war between penciler and inker. Curious, I began paging backwards in search of a clue to the earliest hints of a rocky pure Kirby Thing. I found one in an expected place, and thereby made an equally unexpected discovery. Although not as granite-like as he later became, Ben Grimm’s face on the cover of FF #7 (left) shows clearly that Kirby was moving in this direction during the book’s first year. This discovery made me look at the cover to #8 more closely than I ever had. I’d always assumed this to be an Ayers ink job. On closer inspection, it clearly wasn’t; but who? It wasn’t Sinnott, or Ditko, or any of the usual suspects. Examining Sue Storm’s face, I was somehow reminded of Roz Kirby. Then it hit me: Jack Kirby himself inked this cover! You can even see a little of Jack’s face in Reed’s. I gave Mark Evanier a quick call, and he subsequently concurred with my supposition. Now I can’t pretend to intuit why or when Jack moved towards the quintessential Thing, but I can theorize. First, the creation of the Hulk might have prompted Jack to look for ways to more strongly differentiate the looks of Marvel’s two colorful man-monsters—especially if they were ever to meet, which they later did numerous times. Secondly, FF #8 follows by only a month Thor’s debut in Journey Into Mystery #83, in which the

(above) The Golden Age Human Torch by Carl Burgos (throwing the fireball), and Kirby’s (or Brodsky’s) version from the cover of FF #3. (below) Jack’s Torch from FF #1. (bottom, center) Kirby Thing sketch for Jerry Bails, dated July 20, 1962. Characters TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Thunder God battles the Stone Men from Saturn. In this Sinnott-inked origin, the Stone Men display Thing-like plates. In a recap in the next issue, Ayers renders them as the Cobblestone Men from Saturn—further proof of Ayers’ smoothing of the Kirby Thing. This is pure speculation, but I wonder if Kirby borrowed the Stone Men’s more rugged look for his evolving Thing, who had more of a dinosaur or crocodile skin in his earliest appearances. To give credit where credit is due, the pile-of-rocks Thing treatment ultimately debuted thanks to George Roussos, who first inked him that way on to cover to FF #18 (left), the first Super-Skrull story. In the next issue, Roussos took over as story inker and the reign of the rocky Thing truly began. In our fascination with Ben Grimm’s evolution, it’s easy to forget that Johnny Storm also transmuted. As Kirby drew him in Fantastic Four #1, the Human Torch was an uncontrolled mass of furious flames in the rough semblance of a man. He looked nothing like the Timely Human Torch, and he was a far cry from the sleek Torch Kirby would later make famous. He might as well have been dubbed the Human Bonfire. Now I don’t know the reasons for this reinterpretation of the Torch. The simplest explanation was the Jack Kirby wanted to present his own take on the time-honored character; but there is evidence that this was not a Kirby idea, but Stan Lee’s approach. Script pages to Fantastic Four #1 reprinted in TJKC #33 clearly quote Lee as admonishing Kirby not to have his Torch throw fireballs or burn anyone because of Comics Code objections. This is why in the first few issues the Torch merely uses his flaming presence to frighten off various monsters and villains. I can only speculate if Lee wanted to avoid any resemblance to the old Torch, or if Kirby preferred to place his own stamp on the new version. If anything, Kirby’s Torch looked more fiery and dangerous than the more restrained Torch of old. Perhaps Lee was copying the formula of the updatings of the Flash and Green Lantern over at DC. Same name, similar powers, but a new look. If the plan was to drop a new version of Captain America into the FF, this strategy would make sense; but how many ways are there to draw a flaming human being? Thus, for the first two issues of Fantastic Four, Johnny Storm is clearly a Jack Kirby Torch. In his way, the Torch is as crude and misshapen a monster as the early Thing. In fact, Kirby clearly reached into his personal bag of tricks to create his Torch. Specifically, he based him on the fiery alien from Strange Tales #76 (Aug. 1960, shown above) called Dragoom, the Flaming Invader. With the issue #3, the Miracle Man

n Torch & the Thing

story, suddenly there is a new improved Kirby Human Torch—or is there? Readers got their first glimpse of the revised Torch on the cover of FF #3 (previous page, top). The rest of the FF boasted new uniforms and improved likenesses. Even the Thing was looking less ugly. So naturally the Torch followed suit. However, the figures of the new Torch in the story itself have always bothered me. They don’t look very Kirbyesque. I’ve always

ascribed this oddity to the new FF inker, Sol Brodsky. His style is more suited to inking Millie the Model, but I’ve always enjoyed his brief fling at inking Kirby on the FF; probably because the first issue I ever bought was his last, #4. The Torch who appears in FF #3 is fundamentally modeled after the original Carl Burgos Human Torch (shown on previous page, top left, throwing a fireball). He is a well-defined human form burning so red-hot that his features are a blur. Contrasting his core mass is a nimbus of yellow flame. I could speculate that Kirby felt constrained in following Burgos’ much tamer conception of a man of flame and produced a weaker image. How else would you explain a noticeable and uncharacteristic lack of raw Kirby power in the Torch poses that litter this issue? As an example, the first panel of page 21, showing the Human Torch seemingly doing a fiery dance as he’s talking to

Reed and Ben (shown below). I can’t imagine Kirby penciling such a ridiculous pose—unless he meant to show the Torch landing, and the figure was incorrectly inked. Further down on the page, the Torch again bursts into flame and flares off after the Miracle Man’s stolen atomic tank. Suddenly, the Torch of the past two issues is back. He’s a fiery human comet virtually indistinguishable from his furious contrail. This is an important characteristic of the original Kirby Torch. He is depicted as a continuous spear of flame. There is no discernable demarcation between his fiery body and the flames dragging behind it. While studying these anomalies, I began wondering if Kirby hadn’t originally drawn his version of the Torch in this issue, only to have Brodsky superimpose the Burgos version over it during the inking stage. Evidence exists to support this theory. There are key differences between the Kirby Torch on the cover of #3, and the one inhabiting that issue. On the cover, the Torch has distinctive features. For the first time you can clearly see the suggestion of eyes, nose and mouth, something no prior version of the Human Torch ever displayed. Inasmuch as a cover is usually drawn after the story, this could be explained by Kirby further revising his

(above) Movie poster for the 1961 B-movie Hand of Death. Compare this to the Thing in his trenchcoat from FF #1 (above left) or this FF #15 pin-up (below) and decide if Jack was inspired by this film! Thanks to Steve Bissette for the movie tip! (left) When FF #24 came out, Don Glut mailed a copy to Marvel requesting Jack autograph it. He received this pencil drawing in the mail with his autographed copy, so this piece was done in late 1963 or 1964.

conception of the character, which he clearly continued to do over succeeding issues. I might adopt that explanation—if it wasn’t for the fourth panel of page 16 (below). Here, Johnny and Ben get into their first real fight. After the Thing almost nails Johnny with a mighty punch, he flames on and flies in a fiery circle around Ben. In this panel, the Thing’s cowering form cuts the Torch’s pose in half. On one side, the Burgos Torch is seen from the waist up; but on the other, there is only that wild early Dragoom-style flame trail that Kirby preferred to draw. Strangely, there’s no sign of the Torch’s scarlet feet. The fury of the Torch’s upper portion seems far tamer than his lower half.

To me, this panel proves almost conclusively that Sol Brodsky systematically redrew the original Kirby Torch throughout this issue to conform with the old-style Timely Torch. This was surely done at the instigation of Stan Lee, if not Martin Goodman, in an effort to capitalize on the sales value of having a Human Torch who was recognizable to older readers. Brodsky obviously goofed in neglecting to complete the figure to conform with the new version in that telltale panel. I strongly suspect that Brodsky also performed the same cosmetic surgery on the Human Torch pin-up in that same issue. The figure of the Torch lacks not only Kirbyesque facial features, but also fingers. When Kirby drew the Torch in subsequent issues, he always gave him well-defined hands and fingers. The fiery hands of this panel, as well as the lack of defined feet are characteristics of the early unrestrained Human Torch. I’ve gone through FF #4 carefully, and it seems to be the new Kirby Human Torch as inked by Sol Brodsky; but the Brodsky version continued to show up here and there (see the FF ad in Incredible Hulk #1 for another example of the Kirby-Brodsky faceless Torch, and see the FF Fan Club ad in FF #15 for a pure Brodsky Torch). If anyone doubts that my conclusions are correct, I have a final example to offer up. In Fantastic Four Annual #1, the origin segment from FF #1 is reprinted. On those pages, the figure of the Human Torch is redrawn to bring it into line with the 1963 take on the character (shown at left). Here, we see the quasi-Burgos edition of the character one last time. The man who drew these corrected figures? It was none other than Lee’s in-house art director at the time, Sol Brodsky. This time he gave him a face. ★ (right) Carl Taylor’s pencil tracing of a 1970 Kirby marker sketch of the Thing by Jack. Back then xeroxes weren’t widely available, so this faithful tracing was the best way to get a copy of the art when he borrowed it from its owner. (above) We ran the inks to this 1980s commission piece back in TJKC #30. It’s probably one of the last times Jack drew the Torch and Thing.

The Buttons of Doom

Technique

small button holding his cloak in place. Not being one to dwell on inconsequential details, though, Jack’s renderings of Doom alternate between double and single button clasps hink big, but start small, over the character’s next several appearances. (Sometimes they say. Appropriate within the same issue!) Jack eventually settled here for two reasons. for the two button approach, but downFirst, this is my foray in the played their visual importance. Even researching of Jack Kirby’s artDoom’s appearances as late as Fantastic work and, while I have aspirations for Four #60 show him with small clasps, great discoveries, this is not one of them. often covered by his hood. Second, how many of you noticed the size of So Fantastic Four #84 marks the Dr. Doom’s buttons over the course of Jack’s run on first significantly-sized buttons on the Fantastic Four? Dr. Doom’s cloak. They grow even Upon reading through The Jack Kirby Collector #33, I larger in #85; a comparison found an interesting aside. As the caption points out, Stan between the splash on page 5 Lee added some gutter notes to the original art of Fantastic of #84 and the last panel on Four #85, page 9. Playing art director, Stan apparently was page 9 of #85 shows the dissatisfied with the large buttons used to clasp Dr. Doom’s circles to be the same size, cloak in place. He writes, “I think the big ‘buttons’ should despite a vast difference in the have more detail, pattern, or modeling. They look too figure proportions. Stan’s sugunfinished, too cartoony, this way.” gestion for more detail begins to At first, it struck me as an odd request. Why would make sense. Stan now begin to concern himself with a minor Then we find Stan’s gutter detail like that—especially on a character that had notes again on the artwork for been around for the better part of a decade? Fantastic Four #86, page 17. “Sol A quick scan through Dr. Doom’s previous [Brodsky]—I’m not sure I like these appearances, though, reveals that the large designs on the button. They look clasps were in fact part like sunflowers!” Curious, considering of an evolution of the the design we see published is simply a character’s visual. His few diagonal lines to represent a reflective early appearances in surface. Clearly the artwork was changed at Fantastic Four and some point after Stan’s comment. Amazing SpiderSo what design would Jack have included Man show a to make Doom’s clasps look like sunflowers? Well, single without having the original to examine carefully, my guess would be a simple cross-hatching pattern—a rather logical texture for buttons. It seems to me that this was production manager Sol’s invention, however. In the small reproduction I have, there are two circles also in the gutter next to Doom’s clasp. One hollow, one slightly smaller, but nearly filled in. The simple word “Thruout” hangs next to them. A note from Sol, perhaps, suggesting an idea to Jack. Or directions to inker Joe Sinnott. Was that filled-in circle the actual pattern Sol wanted before Stan’s sunflower reference? And who finally decided on the reflection lines? Why was Sol acting as a go-between for the writer and artist? Minor questions in the end. Virtually insignificant in fact; but I think it shows a part of the failure to communicate that built up to Jack’s leaving a little over a year later. It also shows that we should be grateful Stan had some say in the art direction; otherwise we may have had to witness the Thing rolling on the floor laughing at the Sunflowers of Doom! ★ by Sean Kleefeld

(below) The panel from FF #85 that started all this button flap.

(center, top to bottom) Connect the dots to see the progression of Doom’s cloak buttons: FF #6, 10, 16 (two examples shown here; Jack changed them in the same issue!), 23, FF Annual #2, FF #57, 60, and then the final progression in FF #84, 85, and 86.

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Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH WRITE NOW!, the mag for writers of comics, animation, & sci-fi, puts you in the minds of today’s top writers and editors. Each issue features writing tips from pros on both sides of the desk, interviews, sample scripts, reviews, and more.

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THE JACK KIRBY CHECKLIST: (100-Pages) The definitive checklist of Kirby’s work! Lists all his published comics in detail, plus portfolios, unpublished work, & more. It even cross-references reprints, making it easy to find inexpensive alternatives to the original comics! A must-have for eBay shoppers! $7 US

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Send letters to: THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR c/o TwoMorrows • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 E-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com • See back issue excerpts at: www.twomorrows.com All letters will be considered for publication unless you specify otherwise. We reserve the right to edit for length, clarity, or to help Scott Free find himself.

(Since this is the second of two issues dealing with Jack’s art and storytelling, I’m going to hold off and run letters on both #37 and #38 next issue. So let’s get caught up by running a few from #35, our “Great Escapes” issue, spotlighting Mister Miracle:) I enjoyed the three different views on “Himon” (just as I did when you did the same thing for “The Glory Boat”). I think the larger format of the magazine enabled you to put the articles together in a less confusing manner this time! It is interesting that you run an article showing just how badly Jack Kirby was hurt by a loose comment on TV and then run another article which may have the same effect on Stan Lee. I must say that I had never equated Stan with Darkseid before, and never Big Bird! It is a very subjective view and I saw little in the article to back it up. It might be more valid and less hurtful if Stan had not spent so many years working in the industry before the Marvel explosion and that explosion had consisted solely of Jack and Stan. The fact is that Stan worked with other artists on other successful series as well. It will be interesting to see if you get any other feedback on this. For my part I see Stan as Himon. He started in the 1940s and continued working in the industry in the 1950s when it came close to collapse. He brought a small band of creatives together and enabled them to use their skills (as Himon did) to continue to make a living. Despite the “death knell” of the industry and many in it he kept going and refused to die (like Himon). If you see Marvel as Darkseid then Stan had helped to create the monster (as had Himon) and was unable to leave because of his feeling of responsibility (as was Himon). Darkseid and Himon were forever locked together with Himon’s days of real power and influence behind him. The point is that Mister Miracle fled from both Darkseid and Himon in order to find himself (as Jack fled from Marvel and Stan’s influence on his storytelling). It is ironic, then, that Darkseid was not just Marvel but DC as well and Jack ran smack into the Anti-Life Equation when the edict came down to no longer use the Fourth World, thus neutering MISTER MIRACLE (and probably Jack to some extent). Which brings me to my second point. I have really enjoyed Walt Simonson’s ORION. He really seemed to have a handle on the character and on Darkseid (unlike many others) and told entertaining and involving stories that moved the characters forward. Then with issue #25 he was gone and the overwhelming sense I had was that a reset button had been pushed (albeit very cleverly). Then I read in your latest issue that I was right and that the characters had become set in stone by DC Marketing. How ironic that Jack had gone to DC and created a whole bunch of new characters so that he had the freedom to move the story along and kill characters if needed (Kalibak and Desaad) while creating new ones to fill the gap. Unfortunately he was stopped in his tracks. After NEW GODS #11 Kalibak and Desaad are gone, finito, no way back, had suffered the consequences of their actions. Yet in the RETURN OF THE NEW GODS, who should turn up with no explanation? 78

In his long awaited sequel to NEW GODS, Jack himself bows to the Marketing Dept. and returns the characters to life, but with his comment that they are never really the same. How much was this a reflection on what happens in the comics industry? How many times did Jack kill off Doctor Doom only to have to find a creative way of bringing him back to life? After the Silver Surfer powers saga he must have thought that he had finally done it, but no, back he came. It is interesting that in his final Doctor Doom storyline he does not even bother defeating Doctor Doom in battle. After all, what was the point? Jack had lived through World War II where a real battle against evil and atrocity had taken place. There was no compromise in that battle, and in real life when Hitler was defeated he stayed dead and defeated. Stalin rose up to replace him as an enemy but it was not a case of “1947: Hitler Returns, 1949: The Return of Hitler,” etc. It took a while for him to realize it, but by giving Doctor Doom and later Darkseid a nobility and code of ethics to counterbalance their villainy, he could justify their continuing existence, whereas Desaad, who was pure evil, reaped his reward. Had Jack been allowed to continue with the Fourth World I have no doubt that Desaad would have stayed dead and Jack would have come up with a new character to replace him and move the story on. So the reset button keeps getting set to somewhere around NEW GODS #10 and 11 with Kalibak and Desaad still alive because it suits the marketing of those static characters. Yet this marketing ignores the fact that Jack had moved beyond this point and given us an ending. Had he created the Fourth World 10 years later, he could have achieved some creator’s rights and taken the characters with him. Unfortunately he could not, so his CAPTAIN VICTORY series could only allude (pretty obviously) to the NEW GODS. It gives us the aftermath of the NEW GODS saga. THE HUNGER DOGS is Jack’s attempt to tie it all together. He brings back characters for DC’s marketing while making it a prequel to CAPTAIN VICTORY. A powerful sister planet of the gods is destroyed (New Genesis). Darkseid shows that he is willing and able to kill Orion in pursuit of his ambitions (something that he ultimately does in CAPTAIN VICTORY—but at a cost). Orion finds a mate who will provide him with a son (Captain Victory) who is also the grandson of Himon—which explains Captain Victory’s ability to shift to a new body when the old one is destroyed. (It is ironic that when he returned to the NEW GODS in the 1980s, Jack found himself almost in the role of Himon and his (Himon’s) words about creating things for Darkseid now applied to him. He had created the characters and concepts for DC (Darkseid) and had a responsibility to them but had no real control over them any longer.) So the only story left untold by Jack is the birth of Captain Victory, Orion’s death, and Darkseid’s plunge into being just a living shadow. Because of the situation, it is a story he was never able to graphically tell without, I assume, gifting CAPTAIN VICTORY to DC. Correct me if I am wrong, but now we seem to have the ridiculous situation where even Jack’s story beyond NEW GODS #11 is ignored and made apoc-

ryphal—and he is the characters’ creator. In an ideal world, as he is the creator of ALL the characters, we should have a reprint of all the Fourth World material, followed by Jack’s version of issue #12 and THE HUNGER DOGS in the 1980s, followed by CAPTAIN VICTORY, all following each other in volume to give us an idea of Jack’s overall storyline. But this will never happen, and each new creator will start at the default setting. Why are so many unable to accept Jack’s ending? (He was pretty clear that this was his ending in his CAPTAIN VICTORY letters pages.) Is it the fact that NEW GODS #11 finished on such a climax, with such a gap to follow, that so many have imagined how they would like it to finish, and nothing can match that? Kevin Ainsworth, ENGLAND The back cover of TJKC #35 has absolutely floored me! Steve Rude did an awesome job of depicting the cover of MISTER MIRACLE #1. What a pleasure to see it at the size that your tabloid format allows. Of course, I’m spoiled now, and I’m dying to see Steve Rude do the same for NEW GODS #1, FOREVER PEOPLE #1, and JIMMY OLSEN #133. (I wouldn’t exactly sneer at KAMANDI #1 or DEMON #1, either.) These would make great posters as well! Mark S. Daniel, Boulder City, NV TJKC #35 has arrived down under and as usual it looks great. I LOVE the white cover. Both DC and Marvel used them a lot and whereas some readers didn’t like them I always found they highlighted the art beautifully. Prime Kirby pencils that blow the mind. How amazingly complete they are. That very completeness inspired me to look again at the inking work of Mike Royer, to see exactly what it was that he brought to the work, because it’s clear that whereas Royer is credited with being very faithful, other inkers that followed, especially Bruce Berry, failed to translate Kirby’s pencils to ink nearly as well. The first thing we see is that whereas Royer is ‘faithful’, he is not by any means simply tracing. On page 52—showcasing MR. MIRACLE #7, page 19—we see from panel 1 how Royer has not simply followed line for line. He has gleaned Kirby’s intent and subtly repositioned MM’s eye, so that it is actually looking where it was intended. And to soften some of the harshness of Kirby’s square facial features, he has slightly rounded the chin and curved the line between the nose and mouth. On the face outline, as well as on the cape over MM’s right shoulder, we see varied line widths. All these are precisely what inker Berry did not do. In panel 3 of the same page, the pencils reveal that Royer did similar rounding on MM’s face again. Panel 5 reveals two features. First is an example of Kirby reworking a figure when he repositioned Kanto’s leg—not something we get to see very often in his pencils. Second is another example of Royer’s intelligent inking, where he deleted an element of the pencil work he didn’t understand—something Kirby intended to be visible above MM’s head, but which is unclear. Other small but vital examples of Royer’s complimentary inks are seen elsewhere too. Page 38—with pencils for MM #8, page 4—shows Barda’s helmet projections drawn in a weak and uneven way. The published inks show Royer has corrected and cleaned them up nicely. In panel 4, Barda’s eyes are lifted by Royer’s inks by the shad-

ows and highlights he adds. Beautiful work. (It’s not all perfect though. Page 12, showing MM #12 pencils, reveals that Royer lost clarity for the eyes of the Lump—a rare glitch.) Nice to see Mark Evanier’s memories of writing MM #5 page 11 as an afterthought to bring the required page count up being ratified in the copies shown. That page is numbered 11, but all following pages from that issue, presumably copied before the shortfall was discovered, are all one page number out. “Mr. Miracle To Be”—an unrealized continuation of “Himon”? I can certainly understand how a reader might have thought so when he first read that, but since we know now that the actual story for MM #10 (called “Mr. Miracle To Be”) was at least partially completed before “Himon” was done, don’t you think this is unlikely? Last but not least, I find that the wording in the first 2 panels of MM #9 page 26 annoys me. I don’t think either is much better than the other and wish Kirby had taken pains here to be clearer about his message. When I first saw the issue years ago, the line “Let me find myself!” sounded like a pathetic and failed attempt to be ‘in’. And why after all he’s been through, is Scott now rejecting Himon as well as Darkseid? Or isn’t he? Adam McGovern says the panels were nearly ‘botched’. Personally, I think they still were. Now if only copies of the pencils for those first 4 issues of the Fourth World books would surface somehow! Shane Foley, AUSTRALIA Thank you for another magnificent KIRBY COLLECTOR. While not as packed with content as some issues, it contains a few gems: the Michael Chabon interview, the Himon article, the gorgeous covers among them. The plethora of spectacular Kirby pencil pages represent my favorite period of his work (including my two favorite Barda scenes, the departure sequence from #7 and her first encounter with Scott on page 11 of “Himon”), and I hope you find an excuse for similar coverage of NEW GODS and FOREVER PEOPLE. I’ve been looking forward to the Himon article for months. Although Richard Kyle is missed (and I’m looking forward to his take in a future letter column), it’s great to have Charles Hatfield and Adam McGovern back, and Adrian Day is a welcome addition to the team. Like the “Glory Boat” treatment in #24, this is one to be read often. Adrian proves you can’t go wrong looking for hidden depth in Jack’s stories or characters. His follow-up article, “The Mister Miracle To Be,” is one of the saddest things I’ve ever read. Mike Hill, Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Have picked up a copy of TJKC #35. I’ve read every page of Kirby artwork twice. I don’t want to throw a bunch of cheap-sounding superlatives at you but at the same time I want you to know that the job you are doing on the artwork—it’s selection, presentation, quality of reproduction, size of reproduction, quality of paper it is reproduced upon, and the order in which it is placed, or paced, and of course the artwork itself—is just astonishing. The only marginal disappointment was the double-page spread. I think this suffered from being a post-Fourth World MISTER MIRACLE piece, as opposed to being a Fourth World MISTER MIRACLE piece. But in no way would I wish you to stop using the centerfold for doublepage spreads. We will just have to take the rough with the smooth. In Kirby’s case, these are relative terms. Jeremy Lewis, Bristol, ENGLAND Congratulations on a great 35th issue! Everything in the magazine was great as usual, but nothing can compare to that gallery of original pencils from MISTER MIRACLE. That was worth the cover price alone. In fact, I’ll go further than that; page 30 by itself was worth the price of admission—Big Barda in the buff and Jack’s original pencils in the buff (figuratively speaking, of course)! That was one my favorite pages in the whole series run and, no offense to Mr. Royer, it looks even better without ink. I love Big Barda and any reason you can find to feature her image in your magazine will always be appreciated by this reader. Jack gets credit (and rightfully so) for a lot of things, but I’ve always felt he “wuz robbed” out of due credit for his portrayal of the female form. His women were

the most attractive in comics in my opinion, period. But I tend to doubt that even some of his biggest fans would agree with that. Joseph Monahan, Quinton, VA Perhaps I haven’t been paying attention, but it seemed like there was a heck of a lot of Kirby pencils in this issue! Maybe because they were grouped together as a “gallery”! I liked that; please continue! In fact, the amount of pencil pages in this issue made me wonder if there were less articles. (I don’t think so; rather it was an opportunity to show that Jack’s pencils do indeed speak volumes even without dialogue!) And now to a few particulars: “The Second Coming of Mister Miracle”—a fine article that really depressed the heck out of me by reminding me how drastic a change the title underwent when Jack stopped all his Fourth World themes! This represents one of the true mysteries of most—if not all—of Jack’s DC work: It seems like every time Jack got the word that his stuff was on the brink of being cancelled, he went on autopilot and churned out stuff like “Madam Evil-Eyes.” I’ve touched on this subject before (even submitting an article to you on the topic way back when!) but I think there were a lot of other directions Jack could have taken with Mister Miracle even when the Fourth World stuff came to a halt. Now I know Jack didn’t like working on other people’s characters or whatever but he could have explored other stories (for example we never did see him take his show on the road!) or he could have crossed over with other books he was doing at the time. “Himon” article—another great examination of Kirby’s work! I forgot how much I enjoyed that particular NEW GODS issue! And you’re right; after all that, he gets “gunned down” in the HUNGER DOGS! Maybe he was having a bad hair day or something. “Johnny Carson Re-cap in the JK Tribute Panel”—this was brought up before, probably in your own magazine, but what a shame! I was glad to hear that Jack got some money out of it, though. I’d never heard that part of the outcome before. Gary Picariello, Naples, ITALY I’ve been enjoying my day off reading your great Kirby “Bust-Out!” issue. In this escape artist-oriented issue, I’m surprised to find that nobody mentioned that Jack had a real life connection to Houdini in the person of Roz... she was Houdini’s cousin! I remember her telling Mike T. and I about this with some pride, and adding that he was quite a bit older, and that she didn’t really know him. In your response to Shane Foley’s letter in issue #35 of TJKC, you ask for any opinions about the rough pencil page reproduced on page 52 of #34. I can tell you for certain that the page is not from the 1950s, but from the late 1970s. Mike Thibodeaux has the original, and it’s small size art. To the best of my recollection, it’s drawn on the DC paper from that time, that has the company logo, etc., printed on it in blue so that it doesn’t reproduce in printing. Steve Robertson, Simi Valley, CA NEXT ISSUE: It’s an eclectic collection of FAN FAVORITES! Behind two new Kirby covers (inked by MIKE ALLRED and P. CRAIG RUSSELL), we’re covering the cool Kirby characters readers have been clamoring for: The Hulk (just in time for this summer’s blockbuster movie)! The Inhumans! The Silver Surfer, and more! PLUS: A never-published interview with the King himself! The 2002 Kirby Tribute Panel, featuring JOHN ROMITA, DICK AYERS, HERB TRIMPE, PAUL LEVITZ, and TODD McFARLANE! Regular columnist MARK EVANIER answers Frequently Asked Questions about Jack! ADAM McGOVERN and BARRY FORSHAW! And one lucky reader gets to pick the Kirby Art Gallery—the biggest one we’ve ever published (all at TABLOID SIZE)! This issue is destined to be every Kirby fan’s favorite—don’t miss it! It ships in August, and the submission deadline is 6/30/03.

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38 Credits:

John Morrow, Editor Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant and Proofreader TwoMorrows, Design/Layout Rand Hoppe, Webmaster SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL OUR CONTRIBUTORS: Mark Alexander • Jim Amash Ger Apeldoorn • Rick Becker D. Bruce Berry • Steve Bissette Jerry Boyd • Ian Cairns Dewey Cassell • Ben Clift Jack Davis • Lee deBroff Stuart Deitcher • Steve Englehart Mark Evanier • John Fleskes Bill Flink • Tony Fornaro Barry Forshaw • Rich Garcia Mike Gartland • Don Glut Mick Gray • Paul Gulacy David Hamilton • Rand Hoppe Gilbert & Jaime Hernandez Sean Kleefeld • Robert Knuist Henry Kujawa • Adam McGovern Tom Morehouse • Edwin & Terry Murray • Will Murray • Jordan Neri • Eric Reinders • Mike Royer Steve Rude • Todd Seisser Joe Sinnott • Dick Swan Carl Taylor • Greg Theakston Mike Thibodeaux • Roy Thomas Lyle Tucker • Pete Von Sholly J.H. Williams III • and of course The Kirby Estate If we’ve forgotten anyone, please let us know! MAILING CREW: Russ Garwood • Glen Musial Ed Stelli • Patrick Varker

Contribute & Get Free Issues! The Jack Kirby Collector is a not-for-profit publication, put together with submissions from Jack’s fans around the world. We don’t pay for submissions, but if we print art or articles you submit, we’ll send you a free copy of the issue it appears in. Here’s a tentative list of upcoming themes, but we treat these themes very loosely, so anything you write may fit somewhere. So get writing, and send us copies of your Kirby art! GOT A THEME IDEA? WRITE US! THE WORLD THAT’S COMING! Kamandi, OMAC, and other Kirby looks at what the future holds! MYTHS & LEGENDS! Jack’s use of legendary figures in comics, including the Demon! THE HIP ISSUE! Jimmy Olsen, Kung-Fu Fighter, Dingbats, and other ’70s funk! 1970s MARVEL! Taking another look at Jack’s final stay at the House of Ideas! KIRBY TIME MACHINE! Justice Inc., WWII, Losers, In The Days of the Mob, Simon & Kirby, and some prehistoric strips! FOURTH WORLD REPRISED! A split look at New Gods and Forever People in depth! SUBMISSION GUIDELINES: Submit artwork as: 1) Color or B&W photocopies. 2) 300ppi TIFF or JPEG scans 3) Originals (insured). Submit articles as: 1) E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com 2) ASCII or RTF text files. 3) Typed or laser printed pages. We’ll pay return postage and insurance for originals—please write or call first. Please include background information whenever possible.

Parting Shot

Sometime in the early 1980s, Jack’s work in animation led him to produce a series of presentation boards for a proposed Wonder Woman cartoon. It never got off the ground, but not for lack of some nice work by Jack! Here’s two of the boards he produced, still in pencil. Wonder Woman TM & ©2003 DC Comics.

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BECK & SCHAFFENBERGER:

SONS OF THUNDER

Split-biography on two of comics’ greatest and most endearing artists, C.C. BECK and KURT SCHAFFENBERGER! • Co-written by FCA (FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA) editor P.C. HAMERLINCK and MARK VOGER! • Filled with UNPUBLISHED ARTWORK from CAPTAIN MARVEL, LOIS LANE, and more, plus rare photographs! • Foreword by KEN BALD! (160-Page Trade Paperback) $20 US

• New interviews with MARSHALL ROGERS, STEVE ENGLEHART, & TERRY AUSTIN on their highly-acclaimed 1970s Batman work! • An extensive look at perhaps the rarest 1970s comic of all, DC’s CANCELLED COMIC CAVALCADE, showcasing unused stories from that decade! (208-page Trade Paperback) $24 US

CAPTAIN ACTION

E! L SA $6! N O VE SA ALTER EGO: THE CBA COLLECTION

FAWCETT COMPANION THE BEST OF FCA

“I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS GUY!” Explore the lives of the partners and wives of the top names in comics, as they share memories, anecdotes, personal photos, momentos, and never-before-seen art by the top creators in comics! • ALAN MOORE • WILL EISNER • STAN LEE • GENE COLAN • JOE KUBERT • JOHN ROMITA • HARVEY KURTZMAN • DAVE SIM • HOWARD CRUSE • DAN DeCARLO • DAVE COOPER and many more! (208-Page Trade Paperback) $24 US

G-FORCE: ANIMATED

THE ORIGINAL SUPERHERO ACTION FIGURE

THE OFFICIAL BATTLE OF THE PLANETS GUIDEBOOK

CAPTAIN ACTION debuted in the wake of the ’60s Batman TV show, and could become 13 different super-heroes. With over 200 toy photos, this trade paperback written by MICHAEL EURY chronicles his history (including comic book appearances) with historical anecdotes by the late GIL KANE, JIM SHOOTER, STAN WESTON (co-creator of GI Joe, Captain Action, and Mego’s World’s Greatest Super-Heroes), plus never-seen art by GIL KANE, JOE STATON, JERRY ORDWAY, CARMINE INFANTINO, and MURPHY ANDERSON (who provides a new cover)! Includes a color section!

The official compendium to the Japanese animated TV program that revolutionized anime across the globe! Featuring plenty of unseen artwork and designs from the wondrous world of G-FORCE (a.k.a. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman), it presents interviews and behind-the-scenes stories of the pop culture phenomenon that captured the hearts and imagination of Generation X, and spawned the new hit comic series! Cowritten by JASON HOFIUS and GEORGE KHOURY, this FULL-COLOR account is highlighted by a NEW PAINTED COVER from master artist ALEX ROSS!

(176-Page Trade Paperback) $20 US

(96-Page Trade Paperback) $20 US

KIMOTA! THE MIRACLEMAN COMPANION Learn behind-the-scenes secrets of ALAN MOORE’S MIRACLEMAN, from his start as Marvelman to the legal and creative hurdles during the Eclipse series, and the unseen final NEIL GAIMAN-scripted issue!

WARREN COMPANION JON B. COOKE and DAVID ROACH have compiled the ultimate guide to Warren Publishing, the publisher of such mags as CREEPY, EERIE, VAMPIRELLA, BLAZING COMBAT, and others. Reprints the Eisner Award-winning magazine COMIC BOOK ARTIST #4 (completely reformatted), plus nearly 200 new pages:

• New MARK BUCKINGHAM cover! • Intro & back cover by ALEX ROSS! • In-depth interviews with ALAN MOORE, JOHN TOTLEBEN, NEIL GAIMAN, MARK BUCKINGHAM, GARRY LEACH, MICK ANGLO, BEAU SMITH, RICK VEITCH, and others! • UNPUBLISHED ART, UNINKED PENCILS, SKETCHES, & CONCEPT DRAWINGS (including art from the never-seen #25)! • Special COLOR SECTION, NEVER-SEEN 8-page Moore/Totleben story, “Lux Brevis”, & an UNUSED MOORE SCRIPT!

• New painted cover by ALEX HORLEY! • A definitive WARREN CHECKLIST! • Dozens of NEW FEATURES on CORBEN, FRAZETTA, DITKO and others, and interviews with WRIGHTSON, WARREN, EISNER, ADAMS, COLAN & many more!

(144-page Trade Paperback) $17 US

(288-page Hardcover) $57 US

(272-page Trade Paperback) $35 US Also available as a Limited Edition Hardcover (limited to 1000 copies) signed by JIM WARREN, with custom endleaves, 16 extra pages, plus a WRIGHTSON plate not in the Trade Paperback.

US funds only, drawn on a US bank. Prices include US Postage. PER ITEM: Add $2 Canada, $3 Surface, $7 Airmail. Read excerpts & order online: www.twomorrows.com