Jack Kirby Collector #60 by TwoMorrows Publishing

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR SIXTY

$10

Make ready for COMIC BOOK CREA REA ATOR, the new voice of CREATOR, the comics medium! TwoMorr woM ows is proud to debut our newest magazine, Comic Book Creator, Creator, devoted to the work and careers of the men and women who draw, write, edit, and publish comics, focusing always on the artists and not the artifacts, the creators and not the characters. Behind an ALEX ROSS cover painting, our frantic FIRST ISSUE features an investigation of the oft despicable treatment JACK KIRBY endured from the very business he helped establish. From being cheated out of royalties in the ’40s and bullied in the ’80s by the publisher he made great, to his estate’s current fight for equitable recognition against an entertainment monolith where his characters have generated billions of dollars, we present Kirby’s cautionary tale in the eternal struggle for creator’s rights. Plus, CBC #1 interviews artist ALEX ROSS and writer KURT BUSIEK, spotlights the last years of writer/artist FRANK ROBBINS, remembers comics historian LES DANIELS DANIELS, sports a color Valentines alentines tto his beloved, gallery of WILL EISNER’s V showcases a joint talk between NEAL ADAMS and DENNIS O’NEIL on their unforrgettable gettab gettable collaborations, as well as throws a whole kit’n’caboodle of other creatorcentric items atcha! Join us for the start of a new era as TwoMorr woM ows welcomes back former Comic Book Artist editor Jon B. Cooke, who helms the all-new, all-color COMIC MIC BOOK CREA ATOR! TOR!

PGS s !LL COLOR s 1UARTERLY $8.95 cover price Digital Edition: $3.95 ISSUE SUB BSCRIPTIONS s PRINT 53 WITH &2%% $IGITAL %DITIONS s DIGIT GIT TAL AL: $18.80 &IRST #LASS 53 s #ANADA s &IRST #LASS )NTERNATIONAL s 0RIORITY )NTERNATIONAL 3UBSCRIPTIONS INCLUDE THE DOUBLE SIZE 3UMMER 3PECIAL

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BRICKJOURNAL #23

3-D COMICS OF THE 1950S! In-depth feature by RAY (3-D) ZONE, actual red and green 1950s 3-D art (with FREE GLASSES INCLUDED) by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT, MESKIN, POWELL, MAURER, NOSTRAND, SWAN, BORING, SCHWARTZ, MOONEY, SHORES, TUSKA and many others! Plus FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Cover by JOE SIMON and JACK KIRBY!

JOE KUBERT TRIBUTE! Four Joe Kubert interviews, art by RUSS HEATH, NEAL ADAMS, MURPHY ANDERSON, SHELDON MOLDOFF, IRV NOVICK, and others, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY’s Comic Fandom Archive, FCA’s Captain Video conclusion by GEORGE EVANS that inspired Avengers foe Ultron, cover by KUBERT, with a portrait by DANIEL JAMES COX!

“British Invasion” issue! History of Marvel UK, Beatles in comics, DC’s ‘80s British talent pool, V for Vendetta, Excalibur, Marshal Law, Doctor Who, “Pro2Pro” interview with PETER MILLIGAN & BRENDAN McCARTHY, plus BERGER, BOLLAND, DAVIS, GIBBONS, STAN LEE, LLOYD, MOORE, DEZ SKINN, and others. Bonus 25” long fold-out triptych cover by RON WILSON and DAVE HUNT of Marvel UK’s rare 1970s “Quadra-Poster”!

GLEN ORBIK demos how he creates his painted noir paperback and comic covers, ROBERT VALLEY discusses animating “The Beatles: Rock Band” music video and Tron: Uprising, plus Comic Art Bootcamp on “Dramatic Lighting” with MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS, Crusty Critic JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews art supplies, BOB McCLOUD gives a Rough Critique of a newcomer’s work, and more!

STAR WARS issue, with custom LEGO creations from a long time ago and far, far away! JACOB CARPENTER’s Imperial Star Destroyer, MARK KELSO’s Invisible Hand, interview with SIMON MACDONALD about building Star Wars costume props with LEGO elements, history of the LEGO X-Wing, plus our regular features on minifigure customization by JARED BURKS, “You Can Build It” instructions, and more!

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COPYRIGHTS: Alicia Masters, Avengers, Black Bolt, Black Panther, Blastaar, Captain America, Crystal, Dr. Doom, Fantastic Four, Galactus, Gorgon, Hulk, Human Torch, Inhumans, Invaders, Invisible Girl, Karnak, Lockjaw, Loki, Mad Thinker, Medusa, Miracle Man, Mole Man, Mr. Fantastic, Puppet Master, Quasimodo, Red Ghost, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Skrulls, Spider-Man, Sub-Mariner, Thing, Thor, Trapster, Watcher TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc. • Darkseid, Green Arrow, House of Secrets, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Newsboy Legion, Spirit World, Superman, Victor Volcanum TM & ©2013 DC Comics • Black Magic, Fighting American TM & ©2013 Joe Simon and Jack Kirby Estates • Coal Tiger, Sky Masters, Surf Hunter TM & ©2013 Jack Kirby Estate

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THE

ISSUE #60, WINTER 2013

Contents

GALLERY 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .37 (late-era FF art)

The FF FOLLOW-UP!

JACK KIRBY MUSEUM PAGE . . . .53 (visit & join www.kirbymuseum.org)

OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 (the OTHER Fantastic Four) INCIDENTAL ICONOGRAPHY . . . . . .4 (three early FF scripts examined) OVERVUE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7 (dissecting a fantastic success) JACK F.A.Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11 (Mark Evanier questions FF inkers Joe Sinnott and Dick Ayers) KIRBY OBSCURA . . . . . . . . . . . . .30 (Barry Forshaw’s horror-fied) KIRBY KINETICS . . . . . . . . . . . . . .33 (Norris Burroughs examines Kirby’s art and compositional skills on FF #4)

INNERVIEW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .54 (it’s Excelsior with Stan and Jack) KIRBY AS A GENRE . . . . . . . . . . . .56 (drawing Kirby inspiration) FOUNDATIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .59 (a western tale) RETROSPECTIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . .64 (a timeline of key 1960s moments) GALLERY 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .68 (the Coal Tig... we mean, Black Panther) NUTZ & BOLTZ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .73 (Jack vs. Stan on the Silver Surfer GN) TRIBUTE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 (the 2012 Kirby Tribute Panel)

UNEARTHED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .92 (the FF by Thomas and Kirby) COLLECTOR COMMENTS . . . . . . .94 PARTING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100 Cover inks: MIKE ROYER Cover colors: TOM ZIUKO (an unused 1980s commission piece) The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 20, No. 60, Winter 2013. Published quarterly by and ©2013 TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. 919-449-0344. John Morrow, Editor/Publisher. Single issues: $14 postpaid ($18 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $50 US, $65 Canada, $72 elsewhere. Editorial package ©2013 TwoMorrows Publishing, a division of TwoMorrows Inc. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is ©2013 Jack Kirby Estate unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is ©2013 the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA. ISSN 1932-6912

Opening Shot

(elsewhere this page) Pete Von Sholly shows us what the cover of FF #103 might’ve looked like (below) if Jack had stayed at Marvel and utilized the New Gods there. He also shows his interpretation of some fictional Aurora model kits—hey Pete, how would they have molded the invisible legs on Sue?

The OTHER FF by editor John Morrow

hen you devote ten years of your life to fostering a creative legacy as powerful as Fantastic Four #1-102 (and #108, plus five Annuals), it only stands to reason that all that hard work will have repercussions for years—even decades—to come. Whether it’s through the work of others who were inspired by your concepts, or your own later takes on your characters, comparisons to the earlier material is inevitable, and the newer stuff is bound to come up short. As the co-creator of the FF, Kirby could never get away from it entirely. But much like how Steve Ditko has never gone back to Spider-Man after leaving the strip, Jack Kirby never truly went directly back to the Fantastic Four, choosing instead to continue his tradition of generating new concepts from his fertile imagination. Still, that didn’t stop people from trying to get him back in the FF fold. When he returned to Marvel in 1975, several scripters reportedly were jockeying for the chance to write the FF, with Jack drawing it. Kirby, having had his fill of sharing creator credit on properties he felt he’d done most of the creative heavy-lifting on, opted instead to do his own solo work on Black Panther (perhaps the least developed of the FF supporting cast). He agreed to do new FF covers, but not the inside stories, with the exception of one very fun What If? story, where he and other Marvel personalities acquired the FF’s powers. He even worked with Stan Lee on the Silver Surfer Graphic Novel, but with not a single member of that fantastic foursome in sight. He even went on to handle storyboarding the DepatieFreleng Fantastic Four animated series, but merely as a guideline for others to follow, and demonstrating more of his speed and virtuosity with a pencil, than his abilities as an idea machine. He didn’t intend those loose storyboards to be published, and was

in fact irked later when Marvel chose to have some of them inked and published as a “new” Kirby FF story (without any payment for their reuse).

(bottom right) A 1968 Big Little Book of the FF, which featured very Kirbyesque art by Herb Trimpe and John Verpoorten.

(above) Late in his run, Kirby produced one of his most dazzling covers, for FF #82 (Jan. 1969). When Marvel needed new art for that issue’s reprint in Marvel’s Greatest Comics #64 (July 1976), they had inker Joe Sinnott recreate it (below). And check out Arthur Adams’ beautiful re-interpretation as well (left).

Issue #58 of this publication was a book-length edition entitled Lee & Kirby: The Wonder Years, which thoroughly documented the King’s first decade on the FF. This issue continues that, with a special focus on the later issues in that run, and Jack’s subsequent work mining the core concepts and supporting characters that populated the series. This later material can’t compare to the original 100+ issues, for many reasons. For one thing, Jack had been away from the FF for five years or more, working on even bigger creative concepts, so going backward to old characters wasn’t likely to hold his interest for long. For another, you could see how much interest Jack had lost in his final year on the FF, and especially in his late work on the Inhumans in Amazing Adventures #1-4 and Silver Surfer #18. Like most huge success stories, you can’t really go back and rekindle the same intensity you had during any creative endeavor’s peak. But if you dig deep and try not to compare it to the older stuff, this newer work is really worthwhile, and ripe for further exploration. And wasn’t the main premise of the FF series just that: a constant search for the unknown and undiscovered? H

From this...

...To This!

Incidental Iconography An ongoing analysis of Kirby’s visual shorthand, and how he inadvertently used it to develop his characters, by Sean Kleefeld

ack Kirby and Stan Lee perhaps most famously collaborated on Fantastic Four for the most extended period. That title, then, is often held up as an example of their evolving working relationship, and researchers scour margin notes to tease out how much of each story Jack was contributing. What y Thomas. has not been attemptStan’s note to Ro ed, to my knowledge, is a joint analysis of all three surviving Fantastic Four “scripts” from that period, where we can see what Jack actually drew compared with precisely what Stan had originally intended. (Unlike, say, with John Romita’s account of FF #30 being “written” in a car ride on the way to lunch. While I don’t doubt John’s story, we don’t have any concrete details of what was actually said.) The surviving scripts are radically different in form and highlight how much Jack really began to drive the creative effort. The first script, of course, is that of Fantastic Four #1. Stan had somehow managed to hold on to it long enough to realize its significance and it’s become relatively well-circulated at this point; Marvel ran a re-typed version in FF #358 and Roy Thomas presented a copy of the original in Alter Ego vol. 2 #2. [Editor’s Note: We also ran it in TJKC #58, “The Wonder Years.”] It’s not so much a script, though, as an outline for the team’s origin. The two pages provide an overview of the characters, touching on key traits and powers. Stan also notes editorial concerns he has over Comics Code issues. The document clearly indicates this as only half of the issue with their “first case” to follow, and includes a note specifically to Jack to talk with Stan for some further clarification. Stan is clearly taking the company in a different direction with this, not only from the perspective of the genre, but that he’s switching their overall storytelling format. Previous books were a series of short, unrelated stories, and Stan clearly indicates that this one Fantastic Four tale which includes the origin is supposed to take up an entire issue. As it’s helping to redefine how comics get made on top of explaining the issue’s plot, it stands a little apart somewhat from the who-did-what debate. It can’t really be used as an example

of how Stan and Jack “typically” worked because the document itself alludes to its uncommon nature. The second script comes exactly one year after FF #1. Probably in answer to a written request, Stan sent Jerry Bails a page of his script for Fantastic Four #8, which was subsequently published in the apazine Kappa-Alpha #2. While still fairly broad, as far as scripts go, it has a more solid breakdown of the action; three- to five-page chunks instead of half an issue. Stan was clearly giving Jack a fair degree of latitude with the stories, despite having the ideas and

The Puppet Master in Fantastic Four #8 is fairly derivative; another Puppet Master appeared months earlier in Justice League of America. This Puppet Master ‘died’ similarly to Mrs. Dolman in “Voodoo on 10th Avenue” from Simon & Kirby’s Black Magic #4 (right). 4

vision of how the stories should roll out. Jack changed some pacing a bit and added in a few personal touches, but the issue reads more or less how Stan wrote it. At this point, they had been working on the Fantastic Four for a year. They certainly had started getting into a rhythm, both with how the stories should work as well as how they would work together on them. They both had a pretty good handle on the characters, and Stan was starting to get feedback from fans on what they liked. But

they would continue on the book pet Master!” FOUR #8 “Prisoners of Pup TIC for the better part TAS FAN for IS OPS t SYN which he doesn’t wan on something in lab of a decade, and g kin m. wor F the n Mr. wee . bet flame ers headquarters tosses up wall of (5 pages): Thing ent they and their storms out. I.G. p Thing out. Torch u-kee thr to s ch he’ Tor s ls Say . him Thing to see-- tel ping secrets from ion to herself kee ent att are t y rac working relationthe att ls to fee not Thing gets angry-s invisible so as ly see a guy cool him off. Become Thing. They sudden to ship would cong kin ch tal rea gal to runs after him-- to ble tries ple stare at invisi d. Mr. F sees it-in her uniform-- peo tinue to evolve. flare over guy’s hea him. Guy is ots es sho sav . I.G and . guy dge ard a bri about to jump off ch-- Torch flies tow The third town the villain has guy-- too far to rea b oss gra Acr to an. dow ssm win gre model out of is a con him. He has a small w why he did it-d kno ate t str sn’ surviving script fru doe FF e-in a daz bridge by s-- angrygressman walk off ed through binocular y table-- he made con tro comes from on observed what happen des an and ssm FF gre of con ll model of will make puppets and of bridge and a sma Now Puppet Master 1966 with ers to the world, ll puppet of him. demonstrate his pow to ns manipulating the sma pla (He . tty pre erght dau .) Fantastic Four nd der t bid hes hig them! He has bli the is ch es to nation whi es #55. It’s on the mak then sell his servic he mselves-let FF destroy the others. He iest thing to do is the eas heels of the y s tro ure des fig est ter Mas is strong (5 pages): Puppet street, Thing let the Thing who l come to him. In Galactus Trilogy the Thing. He will wil -ng pet Thi pup t er tha one und y so onl ng, rtment followed by I.G. Thi model of his own apa where Stan ture pet Master’s apt., cap moves puppet to a Pup to for es ds tri hea PM and how wing a daze, eresting scenes sho comsuddenly gets in to int PM e . som een allegedly just uns ce, sen ngs sense thi s I.G.’s pre nd daughter who can H Thing, PM’s spell, reveal daughter to go WIT ceeds, helped by bli told Jack to his suc y ls all tel o fin als he te her, and and Torch-- he pet of warden of sta urn and slay Mr. F “Have the FF . Then, PM makes pup ard -gu mands Thing to ret his off m ve the pro ow ers, to costume, to thr of dangerous prison dressed in I.G.’s fight God” e all the hundreds liz rea to him get prison-- gonna and stop him. ds bon leaving Jack to ape esc to power. IG strains knocks out rts to fight Mr. F-Sta . work out the gal nd d Bli ose h exp wit s-- gets ers FF headquarters o lab-- Thing follow (3 pages): Thing ent F tells details of those Mr. me. Mr. F runs int fla s-o ray int er st und bur can he is Torch before Torch only for as long as want Thing three issues. human-- but didn’t becomes human-- but ng s-Thi ray e l mak cia to ifi r-per to art earlie be disappointed. Not he was working on t to wha ng By this point, Thi are t s wan ray erhim the ause didn’t Blind gal can’t und were perfected-- bec ults more lasting. in res le e though, Stan to know until they whi mak to .-etc way a -ter has to find voice-- his charac es fected yet-- still he is handsome-- his self. Mr. F realiz was no longer him nks of thi d she ame ng ash Thi now stand-- tells is broken-- he is -- he has opened pet Master’s spell writing tch to Puppet Master swi we ishuman form the Pup . I.G . I.G .-- wonders where a doll to finish off ing mak is scripts down blind gal is not I.G now and control of warden) prison gates (thru for Jack; they would just talk over the plot and Jack would work from that. This particular script, though, survives because there were two notable witnesses to it. The first witness, the one who actually captured what Stan and Jack discussed, was Nat Freedland. He wrote the famous “Super-Heroes with Super Problems” story that appeared in the New York Herald Tribune. Towards the end of that piece, he recounts sitting in on a weekly story conference with the two creators where Stan extemporaneously blurts out thirteen sentences and sentence fragments that are the entirety of his “script” for FF #55. The issue itself only bears a passing resemblance to what Stan says. There is indeed a fight between the Thing and the Silver Surfer over a misunderstanding with Alicia, but that’s effectively where the similarities end. Alicia was never in trouble, just lonely. It’s Mr. Fantastic, not Alicia, who corrects his friend. The Thing doesn’t wind up brokenhearted and leave on his own; he never really loses control or fails his teammates. Not to mention that Dr. Doom doesn’t make an appearance anywhere, much less capture the others. Jack took only the barest nugget of an idea from Stan, and largely created the issue himself, and even thought to add in a page about the Human Torch’s solo adventure that was running as a sub-plot at the time (though I suppose this could have been added later at Stan’s request). Now, the particular Tribune article where Stan’s script appears is generally remembered more for exemplifying the big rift between Jack and Stan. Jack felt insulted by how he was portrayed and blamed Stan. To be fair, Jack felt slighted because of how he was depicted by the reporter and one can’t help but wonder if the writer had an agenda of some sort—which in turn brings into question the accuracy of anything that was printed from that story session. However, we have a second witness to that meeting. Although he remained silent throughout, having only been with Marvel a few months at that point, Roy Thomas was sitting in as well. Though he 5

discussing FF #55: Tribune, January 9, 1966, From the New York Herald sions with the ts in sort of ESP ses Lee arrives at his plo ture layout comes pic the dialogue after the s ert ins He s. artist day morning summit ion at his weekly Fri in. Here he is in act comic book artist, a ng” Kirby, a veteran meeting with Jack “Ki childhood and mine: the visions of your of y man ert d ate cre man who eyes and a baggy Rob -aged man with baggy dle od mid sto a you is g if Kin and The cigar sucking a huge green ant ist ass the Hall-ish suit. He is for him subway you would peg somenext to him on the ver Surfer has been Sil e “Th y. tor fac dle m gir a fro in us n act ema for stop Gal ce he helped the FF k?” bac him ng where out in space sin bri we ins Lee. “Why don’t destroying Earth,” beg Thing’s blind girlthe , cia Ali se ppo “Su “Ummh,” says Kirby. Silver Surfer comes d of trouble. And the friend, is in some kin ing as he gets warmed rts pacing and gestur to help her.” Lee sta high-pitched voice. a He has kind of by. Kir s say ,” see up. “I misunderstands. So he them together and he “But the Thing sees And meanwhile, the h the Silver Surfer. starts a big fight wit Doom has caught tor lots of trouble. Doc is lurching Fantastic Four is in Lee p.” hel need the Thing’s y ng the and in aga m the says Kirby. “The Thi punches now. “Right,” lrea him es mak around and throwing cia fer. But then Ali Sur ver Sil the has ts ng finally bea what the Thi le mistake. This is ize he’s made a terrib he would lose cont tha e, els n anything always feared more tha s. “The Thing is r somebody.” Kirby nod trol and really clobbe s too ashamed to He’ f. s off by himsel der wan He d. rte hea broken tic Four. He doesn’t k home to the Fantas FF face Alicia or go bac time... How much the ling for the second has by Kir nt. spe realize how he’s fai and p k on his desk, lim bac s sag The ” Lee at. .” gre him needs “Great, ir he was crumpled in. leaped out of the cha are aglow. His high s eye gy bag his mouth and cigar is out of his enthusiasm. voice is young with

wasn’t entirely sure why he was brought in (“... to be a witness or whatever, because I certainly took no part in it”) he saw and heard the whole exchange. He’s never publicly questioned the authenticity of what was in that article, and when I questioned Roy directly for this piece, he said that it was accurate, adding the caveat “that the relationship of Stan and Jack, and everything else, was funneled through the reporter’s POV, so that Jack came off more poorly because he wasn’t as outgoing as Stan.” So the script we see in the Tribune piece is an accurate representation of how Stan delivered his stories to Jack, and we can clearly see what Jack did with them on the printed page. Jack took Stan’s thirteen sentences and essentially walked out only remembering, “Thing fights Surfer over misunderstanding with Alicia.” He effectively wrote the actual story himself, based on that short synopsis. That suggests two things. First, Stan was generally okay with that process of Jack largely doing his own thing with the stories. Jack clearly knew what he was doing, so Stan didn’t have any reason to alter that arrangement. Stan would just set Jack off in a general direction and he’d come back with great stories, regardless of what they actually discussed previously. (Stan has since noted that he rarely remembered what he said in those story conferences anyway.) Second, that “Have the FF fight God” anecdote might not actually be too far off from what actually happened. It would have been about the sum total Jack might have remembered from their story conference at any rate, and is lent credence by Stan’s ofttold remembrance of how he was completely surprised by Jack’s

introduction of the Silver Surfer. In 1961, Stan wrote a two-page outline explaining half of an issue. In 1962, he took two pages to outline an entire issue. In 1966, for a complete issue, Stan rattled off thirteen sentences—of which Jack only remembered one. The question that really remains is: When did this switch from written to verbal outlines occur? Obviously, after #8 and, if we take the anecdote about #30 into account, sometime before then. I have a hunch the change occurred with Fantastic Four #11, the only issue of their run to have two distinct stories but, admittedly, that’s mostly a guess. So until we’re able to uncover another script, either written or verbal, we’re left wondering when that change took place. Because certainly by 1966, as shown with the Tribune article, Jack was writing the stories himself with only the barest directions provided from Stan. H

Overvue

A Fantastic Success! by Jerry Boyd

t was a comic magazine unlike any other of its era. Above the title logo, the words declared, “The World’s Greatest Comic Magazine”—and for most of its first decade, it truly was. As I see it, here are some of the reasons why:

Greatness... on Four Levels!

(above) This Kirby art lesson was done to show a fan how to keep panels interesting. This could’ve been Reed and Sue on that fateful rocket mission…

(below) The ‘monster comic’ aspect of the FF continued on into the Byrne years as these covers attest.

These statements are all valid claims, and to Stan and Jack’s credit, all of this diversity and more were incorporated into the new Marvel Age’s flagship title. A truly great television, radio, or film story can be appreciated on several levels. Take, for example, The Wizard of Oz. Repeated viewings can leave a film student breathless at the wonderful sets, great music and choreography, special effects, perfect casting/acting, suspenseful direction, costuming, and make-up. Kirby and Lee’s Fantastic Four had to dazzle monthly and it, too, can be appreciated on many levels. Not content to let the ongoing greatness of his cosmic ray-charged quartet rest on an occasional humbling of big city gangsters or a power-mad supervillain, the King put in a portal to sub-space (quickly renamed the Negative Zone). In it, Jack established all of its parameters… all of it fascinating, even more so when Annihilus and Blastaar came out of it. The Negative Zone might’ve been too farfetched for Marvel’s young readers, but Stan and Jack had accustomed their minds to such mind-blowing concepts long before that with Reed’s “gadgets and doohickeys” saving the day, alien races, Inhumans (!), and the like. All of it made for some nice science-fiction…. Ben and Reed vied for Sue’s affections early on. Ben was negated as a suitor when those cosmic rays turned him into a grotesquerie, but Alicia Masters quickly made up for that. Sub-Mariner showed up to complicate things for Reed… or was it Sue? Johnny’s romance with the kittenish Crystal went altogether easier than Sis’s thing with Reed and Prince Namor… at least for a while. Stan knew how to keep things interesting. Johnny went to college and it turns out Wyatt Wingfoot might’ve made a splendid football player for the beleaguered coach… Kirby and Lee didn’t finish that subplot. But it looked like it’d be quite interesting when they started it. And of course, there were the usual problems: Reed’s leadership being questioned and Ben not being returned to normal (even though with time, his rocky orange skin became the norm), and that frustrating barrier that kept the Inhumans prisoners. The Silver Surfer longed to return to space after a different barrier hemmed him in too close to the foibles, follies, and foolishness of us mere mortals. Soap opera…with adventure thrown in… War hero, star running back, and test pilot Benjamin J. Grimm had it all going his way. Had he rejected the idea of going up in Richards’ rocket, he might have become a state senator, one of the top men at NASA, or perhaps Vice-President (!) before the 1960s ended. Instead, he became a monster and battled monsters. He took on the Mole Man’s monsters, Prince Namor’s undersea uglies, Diablo’s Dragon Man, the Mad Thinker’s stolen android, etc. He didn’t grow up to be VicePresident but he became… a hero to millions the world over. Still, there were many in New York and elsewhere who regarded the entire FF as “freaks”. Their reactions when things got grim (no pun intended) said a lot. Yes, Virginia…the FF was a monster comic. Susan Storm felt the team should have colorful costumes (after a noticeable amount of early fan mail convinced Stan to make that change). Jack’s cover for the third issue (the original monster centerpiece cover was placed aside) made a big thing out of the new costumes, and for good measure, he added a wildly impressive transport called the 7

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Circa 1963, FF readers could’ve had this debate: “The Fantastic Four’s a science-fiction comic!” “No, it’s a soap opera…with adventure thrown in.” “I feel it’s a monster comic...with a monster as one of the heroes!” “The title’s obviously about costumed crime-fighters.”

schemes and usually stymied at the beginning of their crime sprees. This usually went on for a few pages but by the end, everything was all right again. The bad people were beaten (soundly) and their smiles were turned to scowls as they were carted off to jail or back to prison. The heroes and their aides ended it all with big smiles on those good-looking faces and occasional joking (at the bad guys’ expense). But the Thing had little reason to smile, win or lose. Reed had the ever-present responsibility of returning his old friend to normal. Johnny got tired of his elders handing out orders to him all the time. Susan had to be ‘Big Sister’ and ‘Den Mother’ to the three other members, while (early on) trying to fit Namor into her life. As they say these days, “It’s complicated…”. And we loved it—while things got more complicated! Villains became, for the first time ever, much more powerful than the courageous team they faced. Galactus and the Silver Surfer, working together, could’ve laid waste to the entire Earth! How could even four cosmic ray-powered mortals slow down godlike figures with that kind of planet-shaking power?

Fantasti-Car—also on the same cover. Stan saw the importance of these developments immediately and added the blurbs announcing these milestones. A number of milestones like these would follow for the House of Ideas. On covers to come, Marvel super-heroes and super baddies would get costume changes and new mechanical devices/weaponry (and accompanying blurbs marking the events). Still, it was the cover of FF #3 that subtly shifted something of the emphasis of the title from a science-fiction comic/with monster overtones/and soap opera undertones to… a greater focus on a super-heroic group of costumed crime fighters.

You Say You Want An Evolution? Before the Fantastic

Guest stars became the order of the day, and through their own popularity, got added page space—which Jack and Stan were happy to dole out. Readers asked (or demanded): “When’s that Inhumans comic coming out?” “Can Kirby do a solo adventure of the Black Panther in MSH soon?” “Give us more of the Silver Surfer!” Reed and Sue married; that wedding day special has never been topped in the world of comics. Continued stories upped the ante for dramatic pacing and impact. Joe Sinnott became the perfect inker for the perfect creative team. The Richards had a baby boy—Franklin Benjamin Richards. The book just kept moving forward. After the last of the Lee-Kirby-

Four, super-heroes went about their private lives and adventures with a smile in their hearts and on their handsome (always handsome, attractive) faces. They were puzzled by their adversaries’ TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Sinnott issues, it was impossible for another group of creative competitors to keep their conundrums for their costumed combatants to a simple mindset of ‘smiles and scowls.’ Mighty Marvel, via the fabulous Fantastic Four, had taken the comic magazine industry on an evolution of the genre.

Villains! Villains! Villains! Long before Stan, Jack, Joe, and Sammy

(previous page, top) Inked by Sol Brodsky, the unused cover for the third issue focuses on the Miracle Man’s monster rather than the new transport or costumes that were emphasized on the published cover (below). (previous page, center) Kirby’s Marvelmania poster of Galactus and the Silver Surfer. (above) The Fantastic Four+One celebrate at the end of their memorable 100th issue. 9

would produce that outstanding 100th issue in which our heroes (Crystal included) would incinerate, blow away, crush, or destroy a legion of their mildly magnificent nemeses, the Kirby-Lee philosophy seemed to be: “A hero’s only as good or as interesting in battle as the villain he faces…”. In 1970 (for the first time in my life ’til then), I reserved a copy of my favorite comic mag. I regularly picked up my comics (including an occasional Classics Illustrated when those pesky book reports were due) at a drug store a decent bike ride away. At this store, I’d purchased most of my FFs from #93-on. Still, I wasn’t taking a chance on missing FF #100. I felt, before it even hit the spinner racks, it couldn’t equal or be better than FF Special #3 or 5, #40, 53, 59, 60, or 63, and other favorites. But it didn’t have to be. It would celebrate 100 issues of overall quality, scope, and unbridled imagination, and when the man behind the counter handed my copy to me (the cover was mesmerizing, so it took me a few minutes to flip through it)… I also knew that it’d celebrate all of those sinister individuals the Bullpen had been so proud of. At a glance, we longtime Marvelites knew that so many of those evil titans had showed up to face Daredevil, the Avengers, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Nick Fury, and others over the years. Despite the number of impressive baddies,

Fun-Tastic! If you’re still reading a super-hero title regularly, are you having... fun with it? When Stan ‘the Man’ Lee lorded it over the House of Ideas, J. Jonah Jameson brought in as many readers for Amazing Spider-Man as, say, Aunt May or “Gorgeous” Gwen, MJ, or Dr. Octopus! Howcum?! ’Cause JJJ was funny and if you sift through any of your copies of the vintage Amazing SpiderMan, you’ll note that at least one page of ol’ Brillo-head’s hilarity was in every issue. Moving away from the Daily Bugle offices and up to the top ten floors of the Baxter Building, the fantastic often gave way to the fun-tastic through the humorous grumblings of Bashful Benjamin as he put down the Yancy St. Gang, the juvenile Human Torch, and even ol’ egghead Reed. He and Johnny lightened things up with pranks and good-natured fights in which only super-powered pals could indulge. Ben’s sensahumor provided the main outlet for Stan’s reducing of dramatic tension in the most suspense-filled situations (where appropriate, of course). Stan never got ridiculous…. and when he felt things were too far-fetched on Jack’s creative part, he poked fun at it good-naturedly through their characters. (The readers always bought it, however, as Jack reassured his wife when she too, became skeptical about some of those cosmic concepts!) Through his incredible artwork, Kirby kept his orange-skinned powerhouse more intimidating than any other strongman in comics (just take a look at that panel in FF #40 after Grimm becomes the Thing again) or… the cuddliest (check out the Thing on skis at the beginning of #99 or doing some dancing in an earlier ish)! The master storyteller could convey all the emotion needed in his scenarios. At some point or another, the three males all went “fighting mad” but the Lee-Kirby team never forgot their fun appeal. They weren’t the family next door but they were as fun-filled as any TV sitcom family… and they were a family worth visiting.

however, it turned out that it was the Mad Thinker and the Puppet Master behind this legion of super-villains… and they were all sophisticated puppets at that. No problem— we were there for the celebration and eventual triumph of the FF+ONE. Kirby squeezed as many of his creations as he could get on the pages allowed (too bad it wasn’t a doublesized issue as reports have claimed), leaving out the likes of the Molecule Man, the Infant Terrible, Klaw, Ronan the Accuser, the Impossible Man, and the towering Galactus (too much radioactive clay would’ve been needed for the latter, I suppose…). It was alright. The others were more than enough to keep us and the besieged heroes occupied. The Fantastic Four boasted of a super-villain line-up in 1970 that was unequaled by any other company for a group or single hero. Though their puppet doppelgangers made brief appearances in that 100th issue, their very presence bespoke many memories of, to take one example, Doctor Doom’s subjugation of the tiny East European kingdom of Latveria. Doom was Kirby and Lee’s greatest contribution to the arena of megalomaniacal would-be world conquerors. Partially inspired by Victor Frankenstein (he had to be,

even though Stan and Jack never admitted it!), Victor von Doom cut impressive poses in his gothic castle alongside his Frankenstein-inspired robots (he’d get a “Doomsman” over in Astonishing Tales without Kirby) and surrounded by crackling, powerful machines that boggled the imagination. Stan favored the adjective “senses-shattering” and Jack delivered just the kind of amazing imagery that matched that description on paper. Diablo’s “tomb” (think Dracula on this one) came from the same (Latverian) school/neighborhood of thought. The Super Skrull got his powers from an apparatus that was light years distant from our planet. The Sub-Mariner was redone for the ’60s. The Awesome Android and Dragon Man were humanoid devices adapted to be monstrous henchmen. The Frightful Four, except for Medusa, were established evildoers taken from previous issues of Strange Tales and Amazing Spider-Man, jazzed up by Lee and Kirby for their battles against the FF. All of these and more superb antagonists outdid the ones created by Mighty Marvel’s competitors, if not Reed Richards and company. Great baddies kept us coming back. Superman’s a terrific hero, but he was boring by 1970 because his villain corps was… boring. His challenges (and the ones presented to the JLA, the Doom Patrol, and the Teen Titans, etc.) ceased to be as exciting as the ones heroes faced at Marvel. Lee and Kirby knew this, and their malevolent menaces and the remarkable storylines they weaved for both good and evil made all the difference. Vive la difference!!

(above) Dr. Doom was and is one of the Kirby-Lee team’s best. This impressive pencil piece was originally published on the cover of CFA-APA #16, Fall 1989. (top) Villainy! The Super Skrull showed up in the 18th issue and in the 1967 cartoon episode. This is Alex Toth’s character design page for the mean ol’ Skrulls who put the FF through their paces on the show. 10

And it was those differences, and many more really, that made the title so different from all its “four-runners” and a fantastic success worthy… of the greatness of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee. H

Mark Evanier

Jack F.A.Q.s A column of Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby

[For this issue’s column, we’re asking and answering some questions about two of Kirby’s finest FF inkers, Joe Sinnott and Dick Ayers. Presented here is the Jack Kirby Tribute Panel held April 20, 2008 at the New York Comic-Con— not the usual one held at Comic-Con International every year in San Diego. Mark Evanier was in attendance that year in Manhattan, promoting his book Kirby: King of Comics, and the event wisely chose to take advantage of that fact by asking him to moderate this discussion. The panel was transcribed and edited by John Morrow.] (above, l to r) Kirby with comics writer/editor Len Wein 30 years earlier at the 1978 San Diego Comic-Con. (below, l to r) Dick Ayers, moderator Mark Evanier, and Joe Sinnott at the 2008 New York ComicCon.

open up the file and write in another couple of paragraphs here and there. The thing gets longer and longer, and I keep finding out new things about Jack. I just got another cache of Jack’s personal papers, documents, memos, correspondence, contracts, things like that which I had not had access to before. What happens is, it’s like a Chinese puzzle. You get a new piece, and suddenly you have to go back and reassemble the other pieces. You go, “Oh, I get that now,” and you have this very complicated timeline of Jack’s life, and you try to figure out when things happened in relation to one another. Dick Ayers here kept wonderful records of when he worked on everything, and that gives me a guideline of when Jack worked on them, because Dick was not far behind him when Dick was inking his work. So I was able to calculate what Jack was working on during key events of his life. I figured out what story he was doing each time one of his kids was born, and figured out what story he was probably working on when the Kennedy assassination took place, and things like that. And then you plug those into the matrix, and you suddenly discover, “Oh, that’s why Jack was writing about that, that’s why Jack was interested in that.” It’s a fascinating thing, and one of the things that happens is, as I read more of Jack’s work over and over again, I keep seeing more of Jack in those stories. I’ll read a Kirby story that I previously had read dozens of times, and I’ll suddenly go, “Wait a minute, there’s Jack. He was that character, and he was also that character. And that was Roz, and that was Neal. That was Jack’s brother-in-law.” There are levels of subtext in his work, even when he was only plotting stuff that other people were dialoguing,

MARK EVANIER: Good afternoon, this is the Jack Kirby Tribute Panel and I’m—well, who would I be, right? I’m the only guy who does Jack Kirby panels these days. Thank you for being here. We do these panels at every convention that invites me, because otherwise I spend the whole convention talking about Jack. I talk about Jack all the time to people anyway. He is so important to this industry, and to all of our lives, that it seems always appropriate to get together. It’s interesting that we have not exhausted the subject of Jack yet. We never will exhaust the subject. To forestall a question that we’ll get if I don’t answer it up front, the book that I have out now on Jack is the first of two. The second one is so long, even John Morrow will fall asleep reading it. [laughter] Since well before Jack passed away, but especially since then, every time I come across a Jack Kirby fact that I didn’t know, I add it in to the manuscript. I 11

and I look at these things and go, “Why didn’t I notice that before?” I suspect someone has snuck into my room and reprinted some of my own comics, and added in new details and new plot points I didn’t realize before, because the material is so rich. I don’t know when the second book will be out; it will be out when it’s finished. I don’t know how long that will be. When you see it, you’ll understand why it took so long. It is enormously detailed, and it would not be unfair for me to say I’m also kind of waiting for certain things to happen in the world that will make it easier to tell some parts of Jack’s story. We have less than an hour here to talk about Jack. I’ve asked two people to whom we all are very grateful for their fine work without Jack Kirby, because both of them have done distinguished work in comics over the years on their own. I was at Bob Kane’s funeral, standing there watching the coffin being lowered. There were four people from the comic book industry: Paul Smith, Mike Barr, Stan Lee, and myself. We’re standing on top of this mountain, watching Bob Kane’s casket. Bob Kane was buried, so help me, with Batman toys in his coffin. It’s an open coffin, and there’s Bob all stretched out, and they’re putting toy Batmobiles and Bat-Copters into the coffin, with no comic books. I wanted to check the coffin to make sure [Kane ghost-artist] Shelley Moldoff wasn’t in there with him. [laughter] So they take us up to the mountaintop, and they’re lowering the coffin into the ground, and I’m standing next to Stan Lee, and we’re bored, because it takes a long time to lower the coffin. And Stan turns to me and he says,

“You know who did a great job inking Kirby? Steve Ditko; great job inking Kirby. He was too valuable to use as an inker too often. He was great.” “Oh, thank you. How about if we sit here and watch Bob lowered before we discuss other artists?” [laughter] We love the work Dick and Joe did inking Jack. I also like the work these guys did on their own. Would you join me in welcoming Mr. Joe Sinnott [applause] and Mr. Dick Ayers? [applause] And I’d be surprised if your favorite inker of Jack’s work at Marvel was not on this stage at this moment. [laughter] Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. Let me ask you a little bit about the reaction you get now from people, about having inked all of Jack’s work over the years. I love the fact that these guys are mobbed at these conventions. You go up to them, and they have lines of people wanting autographs and prints, and cover recreations and books. I go to artists’ alley, and I want to go over and say hello to them, and there’s a huge line, and I’m annoyed that I can’t get through the line to say hello to my friends, but I’m also so pleased that these guys are, rightly so, considered superstars and celebrities at this convention, and the industry has finally woken up to how valuable and treasured these people are. [applause] Joe, when people come up to you and say, “I love the way you inked Kirby on...”—finish the sentence. What do people say to you about Jack’s work all the time?

EVANIER: What’s the thing you did with Jack that most people mention? Is there a specific issue or cover you hear about more? SINNOTT: Oh, sure, FF #51. People came up yesterday and today, and they have #51. One fellow yesterday had the original

(top) Kirby signs autographs at San Diego Comic-Con in the mid-1970s. (above) Strange Tales Annual #2 (1963) featured Ditko inking Kirby on the interior, while Ayers got to ink a Kirby Spider-Man on the cover. 12

JOE SINNOTT: Hey, what you just said, Mark. We are amazed, and they are so sincere; you can tell they’re sincere, they’re not just saying that. Actually, we feel like rock stars. [laughter] It seems the older you get, we’re given more acclaim than we ever had. Years ago, of course, we had no acclaim whatsoever. And we’re amazed at all the people—look at the crowds out here today—that know our work. Our work is known all over the world. My son Mark has a website, and he gets so many e-mails from people all over the world, saying how much they love it, and they also mention the first book they ever saw. Of course, they all want a little sketch here and there, but I’m amazed at how sincere they really are, and you can tell that.

by Stefano Priarone What is a man? Which is more important—his physical aspect or his mind? For Greek philosophers the body was “the tomb of soul”; the body was mortal, while the soul was immortal. Now many people don’t believe in an immortal soul, but believe in fitness—having a perfect body (like many models and actors) is perhaps one of the few ideals of the Western society. Probably the best synthesis of body and soul was made by Christianity: If you save your soul, your body will resurrect in the Last Day, the same as Christ resurrected from the dead (but now, sadly, few people really believe in the resurrection of the flesh). And it’s no coincidence that in the modern age (from the 19th Century till at least the first half of the 20th Century), “freaks” (people with physical deformations) became a circus attraction. People had started to put Science on the altars instead of God, and freaks were considered inferior creatures (the same happened to Jews and blacks). Christian piety toward all human beings was disappearing. Freaks is a 1932 Tod Browning movie

set in a circus, starring real freaks in a sad story of love and death. In this movie, the so called “freaks” are like all human beings; they love, they hate, they cry, they kill (while now, in the politically correct age, they’d be all nice and good, better than other human beings). And the Thing is also a freak, probably the best loved of the Fantastic Four. Actually, most Marvel characters are freaks—they

are different from other people, they are “hated by a world they have sworn to protect” (to quote a recurring X-Men caption). Peter Parker is a shy teenager, a nerd; Bruce Banner is a neurotic scientist who transforms in a childish monster (the Hulk); the X-Men are mutants, homo-superior, the next level of evolution (hated because they’re better, a concept many minority groups in the Western world like very much). But Ben Grimm/The Thing is also a very autobiographical character. He’s a man trapped in a rocky body, while his creator, Jack Kirby, was a genius working for publishers who only wanted to make money; who appreciated him because his stories were profitable, but who had little consideration for his work. As Mike Gartland explains very well in his “Failure to Communicate” series of articles, not even Stan Lee understood Kirby (they created the Marvel Universe together, but they were very different individuals— extrovert and brilliant “The Man,” introvert and shy “The King”). And the relationship between Reed Richard and Ben Grimm, in my opinion, closely resembles that between Lee and Kirby. Recently, with the great success of the X-Men movies, some friends asked me which X-Men comics to read. I didn’t know which comics to lend, because XMen stories are like a soap opera—the casual reader can’t understand anything, and it’s quite difficult to find a saga (or an issue) an uninitiated can enjoy. Instead, if I have to recommend a Fantastic Four saga, I’d choose FF #40-80 (which introduced such important characters as Galactus and the Inhumans, and yet are readable for the uninitiated, too). And, if I have to recommend a single issue, I’d surely choose Fantastic Four #51, “This Man, This Monster!”—a masterpiece following another masterpiece (“The Galactus Trilogy”). But while the other was a cosmic story, this (even if there’s the important introduction of 13

sub-space) is an introspective story. It opens with the Thing standing in the rain, lonely, sad. A unknown person invites him to his house. But the guy is a scientist, who becomes an exact duplicate of the Thing (while Ben Grimm becomes human again). He envies Reed Richards and he swaps places with Ben in order to kill Mister Fantastic (he thinks he’s a better scientist than Richards). But, while Reed is lost in sub-space, he sacrifices himself to bring Reed back to Earth; Reed is safe, the Unknown Guy goes toward his death (meeting negative matter, anti-matter) and Ben becomes The Thing again. “We’ll never know what monstrous things he had done in the past, or what monstrous plans he had made,” says Reed in the finale, “but one thing is certain; he paid the full price, and he paid it like a man!” A great story, full of pathos, with a great character, the Unknown Guy. Nowadays, an editor probably couldn’t accept that his name wasn’t revealed, that the reader didn’t know the character’s background: everything must be revealed (and later used for mini-series or subplots), and this is one of the causes of today’s super-hero comics crisis. What really matters, for the reader, is that a character is appealing, and the Unknown Guy (a frustrated scientist seeking vengeance and finding redemption) surely is. And there’s another way to read this story. Kirby was a Jew, and Jews, even if they don’t recognize Christ’s resurrection, believe in the resurrection of the flesh. They don’t share the gnostic hate of flesh which in the contemporary world became hate of freaks, of ugly people (the fitness craze, and hate of fat people is a sort of occult gnostic legacy). And that’s why the Thing’s monstrous body becomes a way to salvation. The Unknown Guy looks like the Thing, and it seems like Ben Grimm’s heroism reached him—their physical resemblance became a psychological resemblance. H

Of Freaks & Men An analysis of Fantastic Four #51

course.” [Joe laughs] So you were saddled with the rest of the story, right? AYERS: You had done a couple of the girls, the Sue Storm [figures], and they were terrific. So I just picked it up and did the cover, and the whole thing. SINNOTT: But really, Dick, am I right when I say we didn’t expect those books to go very far? AYERS: No, I didn’t think anything of it. SINNOTT: Just another book. AYERS: I didn’t think the super-hero bit was going to catch on again either. ©2013 Joe Sinnott.

SINNOTT: We had just done the monster books, and they were a lot of fun. But the super-heroes were just another genre. We didn’t think they were going anyplace.

splash to #51; it’s the first I’ve seen it since I mailed it in to Stan, back in 1967. [laughter] And it was spotless; usually you see coffee stains and glue marks all over it. It was in immaculate condition. It was the original; I checked the back to make sure. Mark [Sinnott] took a nice picture of it. I don’t know what your thoughts are, but most people, that’s their favorite story, I think. A lot of people have told me that. EVANIER: When you inked that issue #51, did you feel it was a special issue at the time? SINNOTT: No. I never knew what was going on in the stories. The pages came all mixed up. You did your best; sometimes you would ink something, and not even be aware of what the expressions on the characters’ faces were. Everything was so vague in a lot of respects—certainly not with Kirby. Even when I did Fantastic Four #5, they were just more characters Stan was putting out. As you know, we didn’t expect them to go anyplace. EVANIER: Let’s tell the people about the issue of Fantastic Four you and Dick co-inked. SINNOTT: I don’t remember that. EVANIER: Yes, you do. [laughter] It was Fantastic Four #6. SINNOTT: Ahh, yes, you’re right. There’s a long story on that. You did #6, right, Dick?

AYERS: I never followed comic books before World War II. I was 18 when I went in the Army, and still the only comic books I looked at were Famous Funnies or reprints of newspaper strips. So I didn’t know Simon and Kirby until I came back, I’m going to art school in the Flatiron building down in New York, and so on Fridays I would go looking to try to get work. I just came out of the Army, and I’m anxious to get started. I think it was Popular Science or Mechanics; I wanted to do cartoon spots. The guy looked at me: “No, no, you should work for Simon & Kirby.” Who’s them? I didn’t know them. Then I started to look to see what they were talking about, but I never went to see Simon & Kirby. So time goes by, and I’ll flash right through. In my whole career, I worked for Simon and I worked for Kirby—different times. Before Fantastic Four were the monsters, and I loved those. Jack could really draw one great big page, or one great big monster. It was always an inspiration, and I wouldn’t know what was coming until the Special Delivery man gave me the package, and I opened it up, and I could smell the cigar smoke. [laughter] When we got into Fantastic Four, I just kept doing what Stan sent. Just like Joe, I worked at home. I didn’t realize it was catching on; nobody did. It was just another book. Then along came X-Men, Avengers, then Westerns. But working with Jack was terrific. He was just the same kind of tempo. We must’ve worked the same hours, because I could depend on it. At 7:30 in the morning, that Special Delivery man would bring a package that smelled of cigar smoke. [laughter]

SINNOTT: I had done #5. Stan called me up and said, “Joe, I can’t get anybody to ink Kirby’s story. Would you ink it for me?” I said, “Sure, send it up.” So I inked #5, and I had never heard of the Fantastic Four. I never saw the books, I didn’t know they existed. When I saw them I thought, “What great characters,” but I never thought they were going to go anyplace. And when I inked it, Dr. Doom was in there, and I thought “What a great character”, even though he was much more simplified than he evolved into. In any case, I did #5, and Stan called me up and told me how much he liked it, and he said, “I’m sending you #6, Joe.” Well, I really didn’t want to get channeled into inking, but I enjoyed #5 so much, I said, “Fine, Stan.” So when it came, I’d just started to ink it—I think I did 3 or 4 panels, and a script came in from Treasure Chest, 65 pages on Pope John the 23rd. I’d promised Treasure Chest I’d do this; it was pencils and inks. So I called up Stan, and said, “Stan, I have a commitment, and I have to do it, and I’m going to have to send #6 back to you.” He said, “Don’t worry about it, I’ve (top) One of the first Kirby/Sinnott meetings at a convention in the early 1970s. got a great guy to take your place, Joe. You know Dick Ayers, of (above) Fantastic Four #6 (Sept. 1962) was mostly inked by Dick Ayers, due to Joe Sinnott dropping out after inking a few panels like this one. 14

DICK AYERS: Yes, that’s where I started.

EVANIER: Dick, did you make more money per hour inking or penciling, or both? AYERS: I could do better if I did the whole thing, which in the 1950s I became a little bit desperate to do. I was doing Wyatt Earp and whatever Stan had for horror stories. EVANIER: When you penciled a story you were going to ink, did you pencil it the same way as if somebody else was going to ink it? AYERS: No, I wouldn’t go as completely finished, but pretty darn tight. The outline was very tight, so just blacks and patterns. EVANIER: Did you follow your own pencils closely? AYERS: Pretty darn much, yes. SINNOTT: I think Dick would agree with me, that when we did our own pencils and inks, we did most of the work with the inking. In other words, the pencils were just barely outlined, and you did all the details with the inking, because you knew what you were going to do; you knew what was in your mind. I used to pencil very lightly. Of course, you had to be careful if you were doing a biography of somebody; the faces and things.

AYERS: Making the money, you’ve got to get very methodical. You got a certain rate, and you want to figure out how much you’re making per hour. The rate was $7 per page when I first started. In those days, that would break down per hour; if you were lucky you could ink that page in 3 hours. I would get up and start work at 6:00 am, and hope to hell I had that one page done by noon, so I could have a ten-minute sandwich, and go back to work, and do the next page until I’m done by suppertime. I always would letter the night before I did the job; in other words, that night before I went to bed, I lettered the two pages I was going to ink the next day. That’s the way you do it by the hour. So I was only making $2-3 per hour. Lettering was $3 per page; I wanted to make sure I lettered that page in one hour; I’d like a half-an-hour. SINNOTT: I did a panel one time with Kirby; I forget what book it was, but like Dick said, back when we first started on the Kirby stuff back in the early 1960s, there were over 50 characters in the one panel. It was a downshot of one of the buildings in New York, and they were being let out. You’re getting $10 a page, and you had to figure how much you were making an hour.

Ayers-inked splash from Two-Gun Kid #61 (Jan. 1963).

AYERS: No, I never jump around on the page, I go one, two, three. In fact, I got it so I would do the top 3 panels, penciled and inked and lettered, and then move to the next three.

AYERS: You always had that in your mind. In fact, in art school, asking one of the instructors in the class, how do we judge what to ask for our work? He looked right at us, and said, “You figure out how many hours you’re working at it, and then how much you want to make per hour.”

SINNOTT: I worked in the opposite direction, Mark. I always saved the splash page for last. The other pages, I would work on the bottom first, because I didn’t want to smear them by working on the top panels. A lot of times, especially in the summer, no air conditioning, if you worked on the top panels, you got the bottom part with moisture from your hands and the sweat, and once you got down there, the stuff would bleed a little bit. So I always did the bottom panels first.

EVANIER: A question for both of you. The mail comes, there’s a 20page Jack Kirby pencil story, all lettered, all 20 pages are there. Where do you start? Do you start on page 1? Do you start in the middle? AYERS: I always started right at the first page. That’s where I get the big panel, and that’s where I got my feeling. And I work all the way through, so that way I can get the feeling of going from scene to scene to scene.

EVANIER: Was that less of a problem when they went to the smaller size originals? SINNOTT: No. Of course, we were disappointed when we went to the small pages. Kirby was made for those big pages, there’s no question. I really questioned the fact that he would be able to do as well as he did with the large pages, but of course he did just as well. But

EVANIER: Now, are you inking panel 1, finished, by the time you ink panel 2? Or do you jump around on the page? 15

those large pages, when you look them today—his stuff was so dynamic, and every panel was like a splash to Jack, even if it was a head shot. When I looked at the page yesterday, I couldn’t believe how effective Jack was. Even simple panels. He was one-of-a-kind, that’s all there is to it. EVANIER: Did the switch to the small-size originals speed you up or slow you down?

SINNOTT: I didn’t see any difference whatsoever. Jack, with his big machines and stuff, he might not’ve put as much into it, although that’s hard to believe too. I did an awful lot of work with John Buscema, and I tried to impress upon John to, every story, do at least one pin-up, because Kirby was noted for that. As a reader, they all seemed to love those big pinup pages that Jack did. Buscema did great pin-ups, but he didn’t do enough of them, and he just didn’t feel like he should do one per story. But then again, that goes back to the writer; the writer should’ve included a pin-up page in each story. Visually, it looked good in the book. I told Stan one time, “I know it would cost money, but when you do these pin-up

pages, why don’t you have it on slick paper, perforated, where you can pull it out and frame it?” It might’ve been good incentive for people to buy the book, but we never got around to that, of course. EVANIER: Leaving Jack aside for a moment, who’s the artist you had the most fun inking? Like, “Oh, boy, I get to ink one of this guy’s stories!” SINNOTT: Well, the early Buscema was a treat to work with. But there were a lot of guys. Gene Colan was so nice to work with, and John Romita. I often wished I could’ve worked with John Severin. John Severin is one of my top three artists; I just love his work, his versatility. But John Buscema’s artwork, as everybody knows, his draftsmanship was so good, that when you got done with one of his pages, you got a lot of satisfaction. It was a thing of beauty, really. I did so many Thors with him, and Fantastic Fours, and Silver Surfers; he did a great Surfer, even though Jack instituted the Surfer. TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc.

EVANIER: Dick, who’d you like inking besides Jack? AYERS: Gene Colan, at the period where it was Captain America on a motorcycle. Ahh, that was fun. SINNOTT: Motorcycles and stagecoaches were the two things I hated to draw. [laughter] I was terrible at drawing wheels. (top) A fanciful Ayers drawing of Jack Kirby in WWII. (above) One of Jack’s full-page panels, from Fantastic Four #91, page 19 (Oct. 1969). 16

AYERS: With the horses, I’ll tell you a good story.

I was drawing the first Ghost Rider, it came out, and I was very proud of it, and I sent it to my girl cousin in the country. She was always into horses and riding, and she wrote back, “My God, Dick, your horse is wrong on a merry-goround.” [laughter]

westerns, do you want to do war...”, what would you’ve told him in 1966? What did you want to do? AYERS: I love westerns. So I wasn’t questioning anything on that. EVANIER: I liked the work when you inked it yourself—some of the westerns. I liked the “Human Torch”es you did by yourself. I liked the “Giant-Man”s you did by yourself. My favorite Dick Ayers work is where you did it all by yourself, you got looser, you got energy into it, and power and characters. I’ve got the splash page to a Human Torch story “The Plant Man,” which Jerry Siegel wrote under a pseudonym. It’s a beautiful page, and it’s fun, and it looks like you were having fun with that work.

SINNOTT: We could put a lot of dust around their feet. I remember when I was in the Cartoonists and Illustrators School, we used to kid a lot about different artists. And Zack Mosley, even though Smilin’ Jack was one of my favorites when I was a kid, we always brought up, “Zack Mosley can’t draw hands, and he can’t draw feet.” So when he draws that stuff on a character in the strip, he would draw him with his hands behind his back all the time, and standing in front of a big rock. [laughter]

AYERS: My regret is, I didn’t find out that Jerry Siegel was... John Carter?

A Smilin’ Jack sample; look ma, no hands!

EVANIER: Joe Carter. AYERS: I never knew that until he was interviewed. When I read that: “My God, if they’d only let me know that Jerry had written that

EVANIER: Let’s play a “what if ” here: Let’s say it’s 1966, and Stan Lee comes to you, and says, “I don’t know what to do with you; what would you like to do? Would you like to pencil, or ink? Is there a book in house you’d like to do?”

EVANIER: If Stan had asked you, “Do you want to pencil, do you want to ink, do you want to do

AYERS: I’ll tell you the way he put it. He said, “I know you’ve always done it your own way—your own lettering, your own penciling, your own inking. And I can’t give that much work out any more. In fact, I think the business is sinking; it’s a ship, it’s going down. We gotta leave it; we gotta do like the rats, and leave off the sinking ship.” So I took him at his word, and I went to work for the Post Office. Three days later, after I’d had enough of emptying trucks and all that bit, I called up Stan and said, “Well, I did what you said. I got with the Post Office.” “Well Dick, let’s try to have you ink somebody.” “Okay.” So I still had Wyatt Earp, I was doing it every other month. He sent me the cover to a Wyatt Earp that was penciled by Jack Kirby. And so here was this long, lanky guy with the odd, stupid looking guns, but it came out pretty darn good. It had the action and all that. The next thing I knew, Stan sent me the monsters: “Monstro” was the name of it. Fantastic, it was beautiful. And then I had gotten around to, “All right, this is what he wants.” I looked and saw what Joe Simon did; he put weight into his stuff, and then brought it to life. So I did that. And it got better, and better, and I’m learning at the same time. It was terrific. And then Jack said, “Why don’t you do Sky Masters for me?” Great, that’s a beautiful strip. Okay, good. He says, “I’ll give you a couple of weeks of Wally Wood’s inking; you do likewise, you do it like him.” Naturally, they wanted the strip to look the same. Well, that was like asking me to work like Rembrandt. It looked like a pretty impossible task, but it got there, and I got to love it because of the way Wally Wood would add those blacks. So later, there was a clicking with Jack, too.

Strange Tales #108 (May 1963), featuring a Kirby/Ayers Human Torch story. 17

SINNOTT: The Fifties were a tough time. In 1953, I think it was, I was up to $44 a page to pencil and ink, and that was a good rate in 1953. I didn’t think there’d be any end to it, and all of a sudden, around 1956, Stan would call up, or his secretary, and say, “Joe, can you take a cut?” So it went

from $44 to $42, and first thing you know in 1957, it was down to $21 a page. And he expected the same quality of work that he was getting for $44, and it was tough. I had four children at the time, and we had no unemployment insurance. When we went belly-up in ’58, I went over to the unemployment office, very naïve, and they said, “Joe, you can’t collect. You never paid Social Security.” It was tough, so we scrounged around. I did billboards and record covers; you wouldn’t refuse anything. The mistake I made was, as soon as we went belly-up, a guy from Watson-Guptill came to me and said, “Joe, my son’s written a good strip, and we’d like you to pencil and ink it.” It was about a frogman in (above) Compare Wally Wood’s inks on Sky Masters (top) to Ayers’ (bottom). the Navy, and it sounded great. He said, “I’ve got con(below) More Wood inking over Kirby, on Jack’s unpublished Seahunt-inspired newspaper strip, Surf Hunter. nections at King Features and a couple of others, and I’m story, I’d have done even better.” [laughter] It was a story that was so sure I can sell it.” So I knocked myself out on that before I even went good. out to look for other work. It looked good visually, and the story I EVANIER: You may have noticed, out in the exhibit hall, that the guess was pretty decent. But everybody was looking for big foot, Siegel family is taking over half the DC booth. [laughter] funny stuff. We were turned down every place we went. It’s funny, Joe, if Stan had called you up in ’66 and said, “Joe, what do you though, a year later is when they came out with the TV show want to do for us?”, what would you have said? Seahunt, with Lloyd Bridges. And it was the same thing we had proposed, but it didn’t sell. SINNOTT: Just like Dick said. I’d say, “Stan, let’s go back to the westMy kids went to parochial school, and they came home with erns we did in the Fifties.” Everybody loved doing westerns. The comic books from Treasure Chest. Reed Crandall was working for rates were fairly good in the Fifties, all things considered, till we them, and a couple of other guys, and there was a good variety of started going belly-up, and Stan would call you every couple of stuff in the book. So I sent my samples to them, and they called me weeks, and say, “Could you take a cut, Joe? Things aren’t all that up right away and said, “Joe, we like your work.” So they sent me a great.” story on Joyce Kilmer. They liked the way I did the likenesses. I did AYERS: Quick story. When they knocked that page rate down so low, Babe Ruth, MacArthur, Eisenhower, John Kennedy. I used to get all to $20 a page or something for pencils, inks, and letters, that’s when the biographical stories, and poor Reed Crandall, he got the building I let steam out my ears, and I said, “All right, I’ll do the page the of the Brooklyn Bridge, and the Panama Canal. [laughter] But he same exact size it’s printed,” 6" x 9" or whatever it is, and I did a could handle that kind of stuff, and he did some great stuff for Rawhide Kid that size, and I sent it in. He called me up and said, Treasure Chest magazine. “Look Dick, you buy the paper. I know I can’t tell you the size, but if Even though I had quite a bit of work from Treasure Chest, I I send your work to the printer and everybody else is 12" x 18", it’ll went over to Dell and they gave me work right away. I did the “Life get lost.” So the solution is, I take the 12" x 18" and I turn it sideof the Beatles.” Twelve O’Clock High was a pretty popular TV show, ways, and I do a page here [left side] and a page here [right side], and I loved doing airplanes, and all about the B-17 Bomber. The [laughter] and I did that all the way through till Kirby came back, and early 1960s was a fun period, but it was a hectic period. he was always 12" x 18".

EVANIER: What questions would you like to ask either of these gentlemen, or me for that matter, about Jack, or about anything? Steve—this is Steve Rude, ladies and gentlemen. [applause]

Enslaved,” [FF #92 and #91]—Jack with those gangsters, and those double-breasted pin-striped suits, boy, Jack loved to do that kind of stuff.

RUDE: My question is for Joe. I’m dying to come up and shake your hand after this, but I want to know how a guy, with your hand, could do such perfect lines, and do three pages a day.

EVANIER: Another question.

SINNOTT: I was always proud of the fact that for many, many years, when I did Fantastic Four, I never used a French Curve. The only EVANIER: Yes. I’ll give you a stock answer. People ask, “Why doesn’t thing I used was a compass, and a Hunt 102 nib, and a #3 Winsor DC reprint this, why doesn’t DC reprint that?” DC believes, and I Newton series 7 brush. Everything I did was freehand, but it got to think they’re probably correct, that they don’t want to glut the marthe point where I said, “Gee, I’m doing a lot of work freehand, ket. There is a marketplace for a Kirby book every 8 months or so. If because if I happen to miss a line, I’ve got to white it out.” So I did they put them out too fast, they’d step on each other’s sales, and buy myself a French Curve, even though I didn’t really know how to use one. Most of the early stuff I did with Kirby was all freehand, no mechanical means whatsoever. But even today—I’ll be 82 in October, and thankfully I still have a very steady hand. Of course, it could go overnight, but I did some stuff this last week. A friend of mine has a newspaper, and he wanted me to do something to commemorate Memorial Day, so I did a picture of a soldier kneeling down, like in prayer, muddy field with the rifle stuck in the ground with the helmet on it, and it turned out really good. It was as good as I could’ve done in 1962, when I felt I was at my peak. But I felt my peak has been pretty steady over the years. I’ve been grateful for that. I think it’s all because of my steadiness. Of course, I always did put a lot into my work. With Jack, even though you didn’t have to add a thing to it, I’d add just a little here and there; maybe a little black here, or whatever. To me, blacks are the most important part of an artist’s rendering. In fact, when I get a page finished, I squint my eyes and look at it, to see if it’s balanced. So the blacks, and the weight of the line—I like a thick and thin line, and with Kirby you could use a brush. You could do probably 80-85% brush with Kirby’s work, because it was so big and dynamic. In those days, the brushes were a lot better than they are today. But Mark knows; Kirby was just one-of-akind. Even though he wasn’t the greatest draftsman in the world, nobody could tell a panel like him. If you want good drawing, John Buscema, John Romita, Gene Colan, they did beautiful drawings. But Kirby is just unbelievable. And if you could see his pencils when they came into me; I used to marvel at them. I saw so many of them; I probably did 75 stories with him, FF and other stories, if not more. And you’d marvel, because he never gave you less than his full effort. I did FF #5— well, I did a couple of westerns with him before that—but from that point on, right till the end, when he did FF #102, everything was the same. His work never deteriorated. It was just great all the way through. People used to say “Kirby’s slipping a little bit,” up in the 80s and 90s, but if you look at some of those stories, like “Ben Grimm, Killer” and “The Thing Gangsters—with Jack’s mention of (Bo-) “Gart”—in these pencils from Fantastic Four #91 (Oct. 1969). 19

AUDIENCE: It’s great to see so much of Jack’s work back in reprint from the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, both from Marvel and DC. Are we going to see some of his ’40s and ’50s stuff coming, Newsboy Legion...

they wouldn’t sell. So I believe—this is not an official announcement from the company—DC’s going to reprint every single thing of Jack’s they have to reprint, it’s just a question of what order they’re going to do it in, and how long it’s going to take to get to it. I’ve done the Foreword for the OMAC book, which I think is coming out shortly. I’ve just been told I’m going to start on the Foreword for the Demon collection. Tentatively, probably the next thing will be Our Fighting Forces with the Losers. The one after that will probably be either a Simon & Kirby volume from the 1940s, or it will be a collection of all that mystery stuff Jack did in the 1950s, House of Mystery, My Greatest Adventure stuff. Whatever it is, they’ll get to it all, I think. The same thing is true of Marvel. We’ll look, five years from now, and realize that every major work of Jack’s has been reprinted in the last ten years.

brush. One time, my wife came home with a set of new brushes; they were made in China someplace, and they had white bristles, and they were so great. And I figured, gee, I’m not going to wash these brushes, because I remember Joe Kubert, when I was teaching up there, I asked him what he did with his brushes, and he said, “Nothing, I don’t wash the darn things.” So I take it and wipe it now, going that direction to get it to a point. It lasts four or five years, and all I do is wipe it off so it goes to a point. SINNOTT: An artist goes through a lot of expenses. Back in the 1950s, we had to buy our own paper; I used to buy Bainbridge,

SINNOTT: Mark, I must say something; I’d be remiss if I didn’t say this. We can’t thank John Morrow enough for the way he’s put out all that Kirby stuff [applause], stuff that most of us never saw before. [to Morrow in the audience] It’s amazing the prodigious amount of work that he did, John, y’know? Great stuff that was never used; that’s the amazing part of it. I saw so many covers that we did; not that Kirby ever did anything bad, but some of the covers that were rejected were better, I thought, than the covers that were used. What was the one cover that you used—I inked it for you, and the Human Torch was flying. [FF #64, the one with the Sentry] That was a beautiful cover. But there were so many others. AYERS: I’d like to say something here, about what I found with Jack’s pencils. In the Monster Period, I got one, and I think it was about a straw man or a scarecrow. He was huge, and it took up the whole panel. And I thought, “By God, I can ink with a #11 brush on that,” and I did, as big as my thumb. [laughter] Then I did a couple of Sky Masters with that big brush, and then one day it disappeared. I found out my son had taken it and painted it with oils. [laughter] Boy, what you could do; you could take that brush, and it would save time, because I could put in a nice big area down the side.

SINNOTT: I’d like to add to that too. Back in our prime, so to speak, in the ’60s and ’70s— you don’t realize what an artist goes through. If you found a good brush, once it lost its snap, you almost cried. I had brushes I felt like bronzing and putting up. When you had a good brush, it lasted so long if you took good care of it. And when people come up to me with a book and say, “Joe, what do you think of this story?”, the first thing I think is, “Gee, that was a good brush I had on that story.” [laughter] You could tell when you had a good brush, because it improved your work, there’s no question about it. AYERS: For all those years, I’d wash the brush; I’d put the soap on it and wash the (above and next page) More gangsters, Kirby-style, in these Kirby pencils from FF #91. 20

Discovery At Snake River! by Rand Hoppe, Trustee of the Jack Kirby Museum www.kirbymuseum.org With many thanks to Luca Dolcini, Kevin Patrick, and Michael Vassallo One of the pleasures of watching over the Jack Kirby Museum is responding to the various queries, whether by phone, post or e-mail. In late September, Luca Dolcini sent an e-mail asking about a 25-page Kirby western story he found in an Italian comicbook called “Le Legge Del West”, but for which he and his fellows on the Blue-Area of the Moon Marvel Continuity Resource at blue-area.net could not find an original American printing. Sending along some snapshots of the pages, “Partitia Finale A Snake River!” looked like Kirby’s work, but a job number in the first panel was unknown to Greg Gatlin’s AtlasTales.com and the Grand Comics Database’s Comics.org. Luca mentioned that the main character was the “Silver Kid”, but none of the Silver Kid comics on Comics.org provided any obvious linkage to this story. Was it an unused “Black Rider” story? Responding to a query on the Timely-Atlas discussion group at groups.yahoo.com/group/TimelyAtlas-Comics, Michael Vassallo identified George Klein as the inker. The telltale Klein corona is evident in some backgrounds. Michael also pointed out that according to its US publication history, the Goodman/Lee office did not publish any stories 25 pages long until 1961’s Fantastic Four #1 (which some index as two stories of 13 and 12 pages). It’s interesting that Klein is attached to both of these stories. After a while, Luca found an Australian version of the non-Kirby cover with the title “Showdown At Snake River!” in James Zanotto’s

AusReprints.com database. Kevin Patrick of the blog Comics Down Under (comicsdownunder.blogspot.com) responded to a query that, as luck would have it, the Rare Books Collection at Monash University Library in Melbourne, Australia, where he studies, had a copy of Horwitz Publications’ “Showdown At Snake River!” and sent scans. The story, a perfectly good one, doesn’t contain any splash pages. The title is only in the top third tier of the first page, and there aren’t any chapters. Could “Showdown...” have been produced for the foreign market? Considering the relatively recent discovery of Kirby’s ghost work on the Davy Crockett, Frontiersman daily strip being printed in comic book form in the UK and France, the story’s lack of splashes and—other than the title tier—all pages having only six panels, could it be a re-worked comic strip? Kirby Collector editor/publisher (and Kirby Museum Trustee) John Morrow pointed out that some of the panel sizes are irregular—which is not something that Kirby would do in that era—so perhaps some cutting and pasting was done. In his last e-mail, Luca wrote that “La Legge Del West” was published in July 1959. He also found the story printed in strip form, with two panels per page, published in 1962 in Collana della Prateria #6— Pericolo!. There was a second “La Legge Del West” with the same artwork on the cover, only this time including the signature of John Severin, published in the early 1970s, but it did not contain “Partitia...” If anyone can date the Horwitz “Showdown...”, or find the origin of the cover art, or have any other information to share regarding this fascinating discovery, please contact the Kirby Collector or the Kirby Museum. H A version of this article can be found on The Kirby Effect at kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect

which was a good two-ply bristol. I often tell the fellow at the art story when I go in, I buy Hunt 102 Gillotte nibs, and back in the 1950s, I paid six cents for them. Now they’re $1.29; can you imagine? And you can buy half a dozen nibs, and maybe one of them will work. The quality of art supplies are just not the way they used to be.

look; I really did. I don’t like him too hard with the stones. But he did evolve into that. There were little things that I did add to Jack’s work, little bits here and there. Maybe with the ground, dirt, stuff like that. Jack was so good at drawing bricks, and I loved to do that kind of stuff. Or lava coming out of a mountainside; I used to love to see those things from Jack. No matter how much Jack had there, I always put just a little bit more in; maybe a little black here, whatever. It’s funny; even though Jack was his own man, every now and then I’d see something that looked like my work. He might’ve said, “Gee, this looks pretty good what Joe’s doing. I’ll do it that way.” Certainly, it wasn’t a lot of stuff, but every now and then, there’d be a little of it—my influence, let’s put it that way. So I’m proud to say that I influenced Jack occasionally.

AYERS: Like the brush. Being young, single, all the way through, I only bought just the one brush: Winsor Newton #6. I’d use it, and throw it away when it started to get poor points. I got married, and my wife said, “Why are you only buying one brush? Buy the card, for crying out loud.” [laughter] So you could still do that then; you can’t do that today. I call her my sergeant, to come along and give a little push in the right direction. “Buy your paper, don’t buy it a little bit at a time, store it up.”

EVANIER: I think both of you men influenced Jack occasionally. Maybe subconsciously, but I think he looked at what you were doing...

AUDIENCE: I have a question for Mr. Sinnott. You mentioned that you would do little modifications to Kirby, but it was pretty much all there on the pencil page. There’s one thing I think I’ve seen a lot of in John [Morrow]’s magazine, and heard other people talk about, but I don’t think I’ve heard you talk about it—that is, the evolution of the look of the Thing: Ben Grimm, from lumpy to more of the brickand-mortar kind of look for his skin. People seem to think that you were kind of driving that, the way you were modifying Kirby’s look; what are your thoughts on that?

SINNOTT: Well, when I first started working with Jack—it’s hard to criticize Jack, but I used to say, “Gee, Jack can’t draw ears very well.” [laughs] I’ll give ’em Alex Raymond ears. But then I realized it wasn’t Jack, so I got away from it later on. EVANIER: But I think also, like when Dick was inking him, Jack looked at the books and saw how bold Dick was doing them, with these very bold strokes, and that encouraged him to do more bold strokes.

SINNOTT: Well, yeah, I do have to admit to that to a certain extent. But that’s only normal; I did so much stuff with Kirby. As you know, the early Thing looked like a lump of loose cement. But I liked that

(previous page) The evolution of the Thing was largely facilitated by whoever was inking at a given time. These are in chronological order: Row 1: Fantastic Four #1 inked by George Klein • #4 inked by Sol Brodsky • #5 inked by Joe Sinnott • #6 inked by Dick Ayers Row 2: July 20, 1962 pencil sketch by Kirby • FF #7 cover image inked by Kirby himself • #10 inked by Ayers • Unused pencil panel from FF #15 Row 3: #16 inked by Ayers • #18 cover inked by George Roussos, with a more angular, rocky feel • #19 softly inked by Ayers • #21—Roussos rocks! Row 4: #28 inked by Chic Stone • #34, with stones by Stone • #39 inked by Frank Giacoia • #40, with uncharacteristically hard-edge Vince Colletta inks Thing TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc. Row 5: Pencils from #44 • #44 inks by Sinnott • #49 pencils • The same panel from #49, inked by Sinnott

(this page) Row 1: Kirby pencils and Giacoia inks from FF Special #5, and later FF #93 inks by Giacoia. Row 2: FF #66 inks by Sinnott • More Sinnott inks from Kirby’s final issue, FF #102 • Kirby pencils from the cover of FF #181, seven years after he first left the book • Kirby’s 1978 storyboards of the Thing were much looser since they weren’t meant for publication, but even in shorthand, the character is dead-on.

like a reptile skin. AUDIENCE: How much interaction did you have with Kirby when you inked him? SINNOTT: I’ll tell you something. I started working with Jack in the early ’60s; I did a couple of westerns with him. Stan said Jack didn’t want to ink it, so I inked it for him. In fact, we did a monster book; fortunately, I have all the art to it. It’s called “Pildoor, Space Pirate.” [Strange Tales #94, March 1962] I don’t know if that came out before Fantastic Four #1 [November 1961] or not, but Pildoor was like the prototype for the Thing. He was lumpy and he looked like the Thing a little bit. I worked with Kirby for many years. The first time I ever met him was 1972 at a convention; I met him for a few minutes. And then I did meet him in 1975 at the Marvel Convention; we spent three days together. Jack was just so gracious. But I never once spoke to Jack on the telephone about our work. He called me once, many years later when he was in California, and he asked me if I would ink Fighting American for him, for one of the books that were being put out. Of course, it was a pleasure to ink it, but we never talked once about the Fantastic Four all those years that we worked on it. Never once did he put a note—Stan used to put notes on the side borders for Jack all the time, but Jack never once questioned anything I did. It was amazing in that respect. I remember when I did the Fighting American, he wanted to

SINNOTT: Yeah, Jack got slicker when I worked with him. EVANIER: But he got slicker with you, and he got looser in terms of the action with Dick, because Dick inked the action stuff so well, and caught all that energy in it. SINNOTT: Jack certainly must’ve done more work than Michaelangelo, when you think of the amount of work that he turned out, even with John Morrow’s great Kirby Collector. He did so much work that was never even used. And he penciled all the blacks in and everything. I often said, when he drew a jacket, he had the buttons on the jacket with four little buttonholes where the threads went through. He didn’t leave anything to your imagination. There’ll never be another Jack. EVANIER: Okay, let’s try a test here. I want you to each give me a one-word answer for this. What does the Thing’s skin feel like? TM & ©2013 Joe Simon & Jack Kirby Estates.

SINNOTT: I feel it feels like a brick. AYERS: When I saw it for the first time, it looked like a rug of blocks or something, not even like an alligator, so I made it nice and soft. And when they came out with the Fantastic Four movie, and that wonderful actor [Michael Chikliss] played the Thing, he looked like my Thing. [applause] EVANIER: I asked Frank Giacoia the same question one time, and he said “reptile.” He thought it was

(next page) Jack did this Thing drawing for Joe Sinnott’s son Mark, in trade for Joe inking the above Fighting American piece. Joe later inked and colored it (top left). 24

pay me. He called me up and said, “Joe, what do I owe you?” And I said, “Nothing, Jack. Just sometime, when you have a break during lunch, do a quick Thing sketch for my son Mark.” Mark was about 8 years old at the time. So about two days later, we get this nice big package in the mail, and he’s got a picture of the Thing—the Cisco Thing, he called him, with the cowboy hat and the guns and everything. What did it say, Mark? “Here’s a comic first—The Cisco Thing.” [laughs] I eventually inked it and colored it, and it’s one of Mark’s prized possessions. [Editor’s Note: See the back cover of TJKC #53 for a full-size image of Joe’s inks and colors.] It’s something we’d never get rid of. EVANIER: I mailed that drawing to you, actually. [laughter] I had it there, and I thought, “Hey, it’s a drawing to ‘Mark’. This could get lost in the mail, and Jack would have to do you another one.” [laughter] I acted as go-between; I started corresponding with Joe in 1969. I have these beautiful letters; this man has the greatest handwriting in the world. Lovely letters, and we were going back and forth, and Joe was occasionally asking a question of Jack through me, and I would relay the answer. And I couldn’t believe that they had not met. The Fighting American drawing he’s talking about was for the Kirby Unleashed portfolio [in 1971]. I called Joe and said, “Jack wants to talk to you,” and I put them on the phone together, and Jack asked Joe to ink this piece, and he’d pay him for it. Jack was always very fierce about paying people. He believed artists needed to get paid, and he couldn’t believe Joe didn’t

(top right) A solo Thing drawing by Sinnott. (below) A late period Kirby animation presentation piece. (next page) Near the end of his career, with eyesight problems plaguing him, Jack mainly did commission pieces like this one. Despite some figure distortions, he still did some great work, like this issue’s cover (shown in pencil on the following two pages).

want to be paid for this thing. I think he did that Thing drawing in the next hour; he just sat down and did it immediately. And of course, the way he did the drawing was, “Time for a drawing? Okay.” Whoosh. No thought before, just sat down and started doing it. It was an amazing thing. AUDIENCE: Following up with what was said before, during the period you inked Kirby on Fantastic Four, his style seemed to really mature. Now we have Kirby scholarship, but if you look back, at the time did you notice this really bold evolution? I know you were just kind of working page by page, but did you notice the changes? SINNOTT: Well, I noticed the changes from the different inkers that worked on him. AUDIENCE: When you worked on his pencils, did you notice how his pencils had changed, getting bolder?

SINNOTT: Actually, I really feel Jack got better as he got older, except towards the end when Jack wasn’t well. I always felt Jack hit his stride with the Inhumans, Galactus, Silver Surfer, that whole period. But then again, it was such great characters. But right up until the 90s, the last one was #102, when I was working with Jack, he did some great stuff. “Ben Grimm, Killer” I loved. What was the other one: “The Thing Enslaved.” I was still amazed right to the end. Kirby did evolve a little bit, but for the better, of course. His stuff was a little simpler earlier on. But the guy was amazing; I can’t say enough about him. EVANIER: We are out of time here, I’m afraid. Would you join me in thanking these gentlemen, not just for this hour, but for a lifetime of fine comic art: Joe Sinnott and Dick Ayers. [applause, standing ovation] H (Send your questions to Mark via his website, www.newsfromme.com)

Barry Forshaw

with effortless skill. However, there were issues of the title with material which conformed to the more gentle supernatural tale that Kirby would retrospectively try to persuade people was what he had mostly done in Black Magic, and issue #25 (July 1953) is most definitely in this vein, in tune with the beautifully turned, horror-free supernatural titles that workhorse writer/editor Richard Hughes was to produce for the American Comics Group when the draconian Comics Code put paid to more erratic affair involving vampires and werewolves, now proscribed.

A regular column focusing on Kirby’s least known work, by Barry Forshaw

Only one story from Black Magic #25 has been reprinted (in DC Comics’ 1970s Black Magic #5 reprint issue), but we expect Titan will eventually release a volume of Black Magic reprints, with more great art reconstruction by Harry Mendryk.

All of Kirby’s 1950s mystery work for DC has just been reprinted in their latest Kirby Omnibus volume.

Obscura

How’s your moral fibre? Crumbling? Already crumbled? In the 1950s, Jack Kirby—along with many other comics illustrators—was accused of corrupting American youth, his dangerous creations producing a nation of murderous juvenile delinquents. Jack may not have succeeded with his (clearly Communist–inspired) agenda, but a few examples of his attempts to turn a nation from the straight and narrow are discussed below...

ADDED VALUE KIRBY The cover to issue #25 is an indication of the gentler tone that the issue will take, with a young couple crouching in an unfinished house, pointing at a sedate-looking ghostly couple walking past. The fact that the ghosts are particularly unthreatening (and the young woman does not appear to notice that they are completely transparent—perhaps she’d forgotten her contacts) is an indicator of the approach here, as is the fact that Kirby places his mortal couple in the foreground when what one would have thought was the selling point of the issue—the ghosts—a given a relatively small amount of space. For Black Magic, Kirby would often provide one story per issue, but with layouts for the splash panels of the other tales (or even, sometimes, a fully inked splash), so the larger amount of Kirby in this work makes it a particularly collectable issue, even though one of the tales has been reprinted. The first story, “Strange Old Bird”, features nothing less than the legendary phoenix, the supernatural avian which famously rises from its own ashes after bursting into flame, but the two mature protagonists of this tale (unthinkable today) are affected forever by their encounter with the phoenix. The bird replaces the pet of a lonely woman, and the scene involving the creature’s transformation and its effect on the two protagonists (the frustrated middle-aged Miss Stewart and the elderly janitor who is the narrator) boasts all the atmospheric skill that was Kirby’s hallmark. What’s more, the writing here has a genuinely poignant and poetic strain—as when the janitor, being thrown through a door in a blast of energy as the Phoenix begins its spectacular regeneration process, a caption reads: “I’m ashamed to say I got to the door before Miss Stewart. That’s when the atom bomb went off—and the sun came out and a sensation of almost unbearable joy sang through me even as I was flung out into the hallway.” Writing like this was not often encountered in comics, and needless to say Kirby was in the perfect position to do this text justice. Traditionally, in this title, a Kirby opener would be followed by a piece by one of the other artists in the Simon & Kirby studio: Bill Draut, say, or Mort Meskin. But the second tale here is another Kirby special, called “The Human Cork.” The splash panel (partly miscoloured) shows two men flinging a hooded, bound figure from a jetty into the water, with a ball and chain ensuring that the victim will not survive. Of course, he does come back, as the Human Cork of the title is a Houdini escapologist type—and (it might be suggested)

TRUE AMAZING ACCOUNTS OF THE STRANGEST STORIES EVER TOLD Clearly embarrassed by his involvement in the horror comics hysteria in the 1950s (with comics blamed for destroying the moral purity of American children), Jack Kirby would routinely play down the books that he and his partner Joe Simon put together for the Prize comics group, notably their durable macabre title Black Magic (possibly because an issue of the title was a prime exhibit for the Senate Committee investigating juvenile delinquency). But, to some degree, Kirby was on a hiding to nowhere. What’s more, it might be said that he was massaging the truth slightly; while it is true that the Simon & Kirby team did not (generally speaking) go in for the kind of gruesomeness that was the stock in trade of Al Feldstein, William Gaines and their massively talented cadre of artists at EC Comics, S&K could most certainly deliver the gruesome goods when required, and it might be argued that Black Magic was a grittier, edgier title than most other books vying for supremacy in the crowded horror comics market of the day. Apart from anything else, Jack Kirby had a natural gift for the grotesque, and bizarre, disturbing imagery worthy of the mediaeval artist Hieronymus Bosch flowed from his pen 30

one of the prototypes—often found in Kirby’s 1950s work—for ideas that were developed later. Is this death-cheating escape artist an early version of Mister Miracle?

REAL CRIME FROM THE SIMON AND KIRBY LIBRARY

DRAINED OF HORROR

What follows (the cover story, in fact) is a gentle fantasy piece, “The Romantic Souls”, about a couple whose love survives death. This spectral couple prove very helpful to other lovers, post-mortem. However, the inoffensive piece is almost proof of Jack Kirby’s dictum that the horror tales produced under his and Joe Simon’s aegis underplayed the gruesome— and though Richard Hughes at ACG managed to finesse such non-macabre material into mini-masterpieces, such a trick escapes the Simon and Kirby studio with this piece. What makes the soft-pedalling of the gruesome so ironic here is the choice of artist for the tale—the splendid Al Eadeh. It would not be quite fair to say that he was the poor man’s Graham Ingles, but his truly grotesque and baroque renderings for Stan Lee’s Atlas horror titles frequently demonstrated that he came a pretty close second to the star EC horror artist—not here though, with the piece rendered in the cleaner, more sanitised style that the artist used for such material.

BACK TO THE MACABRE The macabre is back with a bang in the final story, “A Beast is in the Streets”, as is Jack Kirby in his most bizarre illustrative mode. The eponymous beast is an ambulatory corpse, naked but for a winding sheet, a brainless blank-eyed monstrosity that roams the streets killing at random (pools of blood, not often to be seen in Black Magic, are in evidence here, as are several tableaus with grotesquely sprawled corpses—though the demise of the zombie-like beast itself is underplayed). Nevertheless, along with the striking opening Kirby tales, the inclusion of this story renders Black Magic #25 a particularly collectable item for the Kirbyite.

Crime comics were a particular of the enemies of comics. The UK publisher Titan Books continues to put lovers of the graphic arts in its debt with a variety of sumptuously produced, handsome volumes. Of particular interest to readers of this magazine is Titan’s continuing commitment to making available sterling work from the Simon and Kirby Studios, which is proving to be just as valuable as Titan’s equally enthusiastic commitment to making available again all of Peter O’Donnell’s nonpareil work on the Modesty Blaise strip. The latest entry in the very welcome Simon and Kirby library is dedicated to the duo’s work in the crime comics field, and this collection (rendered, as is now customary on matte-surface paper to do justice to the colour separations) reminds one of some very strange work Jack Kirby and his partner produced in this censor-baiting field of the comics. The gunwielding violence, in fact, is never of the gritty kind to be found within the pages of the EC crime comics—in fact, the sheer operatic (even ludicrous) indulgence of the work here is some distance from that being practised in almost every other variety of the crime comics field of the time (including Charles Biro’s notorious Crime Does Not Pay). And the tales here (drawn from a variety of crime titles that Simon and Kirby worked on) are so overthe-top in their sheer unlikeliness that it’s hard to see why anyone would have been upset—except, of course, for the fact that the 1950s were a far less sophisticated age. While the duo’s greatest work of this period remains in the fantasy and science-fiction fields, aficionados will be very grateful for this latest collectible volume, with its gats and gun molls.

KIRBY AT DC

Unless you’re someone with the deepest pockets (or generous relatives), you probably have occasion to be grateful for the fact that so much vintage Jack Kirby material is being made available again in handsome reissue volumes—and not just much-reprinted work such as Marvel’s Fantastic Four. If you cast your eyes upwards to the title of this column you’ll see that it’s called “Kirby Obscura”, so yet another reissue of the Fantastic Four—welcome though it may be—will not really come under my remit. But Jack Kirby’s fantasy and science-fiction stories for his preMarvel period at DC Comics most certainly do—at least for the time being. For Beatles-era collectors like myself who grew up when such material was only available in Britain as back-ups in the 68-page black-and-white reprints of such books as The Flash and Blackhawk, it was a particular pleasure to discover among the short strips drawn by such talents as Bernard Bailey and Nick Cardy, a piece which was clearly the work of the unnamed artist whose very distinctive style (with which we quickly become familiar) was at once both classic in its simplicity and complex in its individual sense of design and order. The recent volume of Kirby’s DC 31

fantasy and sci-fi material (The Jack Kirby Omnibus, Volume #1) is particularly welcome, not only for reprinting his entire output for the company (such items as Challengers of the Unknown excepted) as it is reprinted on matte paper rather than the glossy stock previously employed, which had made colour schemes seemed so overemphatic and lacking in nuance.

FROM THE HOUSE OF SECRETS An item from House of Secrets #3 (published in March/April 1957) is particularly choice—and has the virtue of sporting a Jack Kirby cover, in which a seductive Cleopatra (decorously clad—this was the era of the Comics Code, after all) beckons to a man in modern dress in a Wax Museum (“The wax figure of Cleopatra—she’s alive!”). The tale itself, “The Three Prophecies”, does not perhaps represent The King’s best work for National (the plotting of the piece is rather weak and gives Kirby few opportunities to shine, even with his own inks), but Kirby—even on autopilot—seems to find it impossible to produce poor work in this era. The tale of a phoney seer who appears to have access to genuine supernatural

prophecies, it is a classic example of a favourite theme in DC magazines of this period—[Warning: Spoiler Alert] in which apparently supernatural incidents are shown to have a rational explanation (although, as here, there is often a suggestion in the final panel that perhaps something very strange has been going on). The artwork is Kirby at his cleanest and most distinctive but perhaps lacking in any killer panels of the kind which he so liberally dispensed in these years (even the splash panel is unexciting), but whether you read it in the reprint volume—or track down a copy of the original comic—it’s still a tempting item for confirmed Kirby collectors. And that’s everyone reading these words, isn’t it? H

THE

SIMON KIRBY LIBRARY The complete Simon and Kirby Library archive of science fiction, including The Three Rocketeers and rarities More than 80 pages restored from Joe Simon’s personal collection of artwork Bonus stories with artwork by Al Williamson, Reed Crandall, Angelo Torres and Wally Wood Reprinted for the first time, Joe Simon’s original Blue Bolt origin story! Introduction by Dave Gibbons

AVAILABLE SPRING 2013 AT ALL GOOD BOOK STORES AND ONLINE RETAILERS

ALSO AVAILABLE IN THE SIMON & KIRBY LIBRARY SERIES: SUPERHEROES AND CRIME 32

Barry Forshaw is the author of The Rough Guide to Crime Fiction (available from Amazon) and the editor of Crime Time. He lives in London.

An ongoing examination of Kirby’s art and compositional skills

(throughout this article) Art from Fantastic Four #4 (May 1962).

that actually opened my mind to the possibilities of the comic art medium. I’d picked up on the series with issue #12, and was instantly hooked on the self-

proclaimed World’s Greatest Comic Magazine. I began searching around for back issues and was lucky enough to have a good friend loan me issue #4. As wonderful as they are, there is something slightly rushed and desultory about the first two issues of this series. Perhaps the innovation of costumes in the third issue started to get Kirby jazzed, but in FF #4, with the re-introduction of Timely’s second Golden Age star, the Sub-Mariner, Kirby and Lee really began to hit their stride. The story begins powerfully, with three members of the team arguing about the disappearance of the fourth. Reed is chastising Ben about the latter’s jealousy over Johnny’s exploits in the previous chapter. It is Ben’s bad attitude that has caused the Torch to quit the team. By now it is clear that it is the Thing’s brooding resentment over his condition that provides the dynamic chemistry that sets this series apart. This is the factor that kicks off the much-touted revolutionary concept of heroes with problems, since it is obviously the Thing’s inability to deal with his grotesqueness that leads to conflict within the group. It is also clear that this is not a simple tale of good guys vs. bad guys and that Kirby and Stan Lee are dealing with serious issues of emotional turmoil and the dynamics of relationships within a family, such as parental authority and sibling rivalry. The members of this team are obviously a surrogate family, working out their problems, and the plot is merely what Alfred Hitchcock would call the McGuffin, a device to set the characters in motion. The three go in search of the Torch, who is hiding out in a local garage with his sport’s car enthusiast pals. Kirby is beginning to stretch out with the Fantastic Four as a sequential storyteller now. He is using more of a full palette of continuity techniques herein. In his unparalleled study of the genre, Understanding Comics, author Scott McCloud describes various transitional techniques used in sequential art. Generally, the most common of these in western comics is subject-to-subject, an example of which would be the last four panels of page five in FF #4 [left], wherein the artist’s point of view is confined to the same general scene, but is moving from the subject of the Torch to the subject of the Thing. However, the upper tier of panels is a different story. This sequence would be best described as moment-

Dynamic Chemistry antastic Four #4 was probably the first comic book

to-moment or action-to-action, a technique that Kirby excelled at. This makes sense considering his early training in animation. Here in three continuous panels, the Torch is shown igniting his finger and welding an auto part. Two pages later, the same technique is used showing the Thing, who has just cornered Johnny in said garage, gradually changing in a four-panel sequence back to Ben Grimm [right]. If there is any confusion about the editing techniques I am describing, one simply needs to think of a cameraman, choosing either to maintain the position of his camera and shooting a scene in a continuous sequence, or cutting away from a shot to another shot or another aspect of the same shot. One can easily see that drawing sequential art often offers similar challenges to storytelling that filmmaking does in its arrangement of sequences. The Torch eludes the Thing and goes even deeper undercover. It is at this point that this episode begins to delve into the murky waters of mythology as it is related to the human psyche. The Torch’s next stop is the Bowery, a stone’s throw from Kirby’s own

Lower East Side roots, and in the artist’s own recollection, a virtual urban heart of darkness. In two amazing panels, Kirby establishes mood and setting, as Johnny is seen walking down a forlorn street and stopping in front of a fleabag hotel [below]. In panel two of this page in particular, Kirby sets a scene of a street of desolation with the placement of the shabbily dressed figures loitering on the sidewalk. The wrought iron stanchions on the stairway and the post that the seated figure is leaning against indicate the character and decrepitude of the run-down buildings. This small panel is a beautifully composed deep space scene, with multiple visual cues to suggest that Johnny is enveloped by the misery that surrounds him. Having lived in New York for most of my life, I can even recognize that Johnny is almost certainly standing on a side street, looking eastward to Third Avenue, which in this part of town is actually called Bowery. Johnny’s thought balloon in panel one refers to the street’s inhabitants as “human derelicts”, an obvious nautical reference to abandoned ships. Shortly after reading an old comic book in his hotel bed, Johnny is introduced to the derelict of the aged Sub- Mariner, bearded and incoherent. I for one cannot help but think of the famous poem Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. When the ill-mannered vagrants bait the befuddled Namor, Kirby reveals the hero’s awesome power in an unforgettable sequence on page nine [next page, top]. Although the continuity of this tier of three panels suggests that it is an action-to-action sequence, it is actually an unusual example of subject-to-subject artwork. One does not see Namor’s initial action as he assaults the men, only their reaction as they are tossed away like so many broken toys. As a boy of eleven, I was completely mesmerized by the way these tumbling figures were rendered, particularly in the first panel where the man is going heels-over-head and the third figure whose shoe sole is coming towards us. Notice that Kirby includes a large hole in the sole, focusing the eye even more on that point of the panel. The panels serve as a perfect triptych of continuity of gesture. The leg and hand of the first figure lead us into an almost hieroglyphic series of balletic commotion. This sequence was for me a tantalizing introduction to what was possible in comic book art, and why it could indeed be considered “art” proper. My reasoning told me that any man that could compose such a sequence, not only drawing the intricate anatomical structures, but also arranging them in this singular fashion, possessed a talent

symbol of the purifying flame’s light descending into Hades to retrieve the fallen hero. Thus does the Golden Age Dynamic Chemistry of fire and water re-assert itself. With this action, the Silver Age is truly born. (Two years later, Namor completes the circle by releasing the frozen Captain America.) Prince Namor next swims to an outpost of his former undersea kingdom, only to discover that mankind’s nuclear program has destroyed much of his civilization and driven off his subjects. The Sub-Mariner vows to exact vengeance on humanity by unleashing a monstrous Atlas era Kirby creature, a huge leviathan of a four-legged whale called Giganto. To atone for his sin of anger against his surrogate family, the Thing must descend into the mythical belly of the beast in an effort to destroy the monster, which is clearly yet another hero’s journey into the underworld and the realm of the subconscious. What is wonderful about the first dozen or so issues of the Fantastic Four is the division of the stories into chapters, giving Kirby the opportunity to flex his artistic muscles in large, three-quarter-page panels. Thus, in this issue, there is the spectacular tableau of the opening of Chapter Five [next page], showing Ben trudging through a cavernous hell within the bowels of the great creature, with a massive bomb strapped to his back. The page is beautifully drawn, with dramatic shadows, illuminated by the flashlight that the Thing is carrying. In the lower left corner is a strange organic shape suggesting viscera of some sort. The page is well colored by Stan Goldberg in lurid violets and reds that add drama to the scene, and the highlight on the bomb is particularly effective, although the entire figure is rendered in yellow. Ben successfully dispatches Giganto and returns to the land of the living. The Four again confront the defiant Sub-Mariner, who threatens to summon even more creatures with his shell trumpet, but the horn is suddenly snatched away by the Invisible Girl. When he chases her down, Namor is instantly smitten with passion for Sue Storm. It is in this moment that he resumes his career as more than just another antagonist to the Fantastic Four. Considered to be the comics’ first true anti-hero, the SubMariner has always been a complex and conflicted character, half

beyond the ordinary. Tellingly, when I showed the page to a local artist whose opinion I had respected up until that point, and he waved away the page with the dismissive quip of, “That’s not art”, I instantly ceased to hold him in high regard. On the following page, Johnny breaks up the ruckus, and in a dramatic moment- to-moment sequence reminiscent of the earlier welding scene, he shaves Namor’s beard and reveals the face of the Sub-Mariner. Next, by throwing Namor into what is presumably the East River, which serves as a metaphor of the subconscious mind, Johnny restores the Sub-Mariner’s identity. One can easily interpret this portion of the tale mythologically as well as psychologically if we imagine that the young hero’s journey into the Bowery is a

existed alongside our own. The misanthropic Sub-Mariner, created by Bill Everett, debuted in the first issue of 1939’s Marvel Comics and was a standout in that comic, publisher Martin Goodman’s first foray into the world of comic book production. The belligerent prince was an immediate hit and remained popular through the mid-1940s. When in 1961, Goodman instructed Lee and Kirby to begin creating super-heroes, it soon became clear that he wanted to revive the three biggest stars of Timely’s former glory days. Since a new Human Torch was now appearing in the Fantastic Four, it seemed logical to bring back his original nemesis, the Sub-Mariner. The third character, Captain America, would have to wait for an appropriate moment. Namor’s Atlantean domain was an important part of the character’s appeal, and its reappearance in 1962 would inspire Kirby, always a plotter who favored the interaction between groups of different cultures, to really explore the notion of alternative societies. The Atlantean sub-plot would soon be followed by Kirby’s creation of such alternative super societies as the Asgardian pantheon of gods in The Mighty Thor and the Inhumans in Fantastic Four. Over time, Kirby would continue to explore and expand on the theme of various parallel universes and cultures that might exist alongside or around us. As the online Atlas Comics website states of Jack Kirby, “He is the unquestioned king of invention; not just characters, but devices, stories, races and worlds.” I am inclined to agree. H

aquatic, half human, arrogant, charismatic and imperious. If the FF are elementals, with the Human Torch as fire, the Thing as earth, the Invisible Girl as air and Mr. Fantastic’s flexibility representing the liquidity of water, then Namor, as ocean monarch is an obvious rival for Reed Richards in a love triangle for Sue’s affections. Although introduced as a villain in FF #4, Namor is a wild card that over several years will continually be played as either friend or foe. In the final scene, his love for Sue is initially rejected, although when Namor next appears in a later issue, it seems that the fickle nature of Susan Storm has begun to warm to the notion of a tryst with the undersea prince. In the conclusion of this story, Namor rants and raves on about destroying mankind with a plague of undersea creatures. The fourth panel on page twenty-two [right], featuring a red-hued Sub-Mariner on a yellow ground, also had a strong impact on me, not only for its coloration, but for the power of the diagonal position of the gesticulating figure. Like much of this issue, this particular drawing is not carefully executed, and yet there is a great vitality at its essence that cuts through the rather careless rendering. Some quick thinking by the Torch provides the story’s solution. Johnny Storm creates a tornado that deposits the Sub-Mariner and his dead whale back into the ocean. Namor, while spewing a torrent of curses in the general direction of the surface, wisely decides to remain below. It was then obvious that such a powerful and enigmatic character would be seen again soon. The Sub-Mariner’s revival in this issue essentially initiated the 1960s Marvel Age trend of including new and old characters in multiple crossover appearances throughout various issues of the company’s titles. Namor, as prince of Atlantis, was the first in a series of Marvel’s astounding beings who hailed from another world that 36

Fantastic Four #75 (June 1968), page 12 pencils, from faded stats in Kirby’s files. For more of this type of pencil art, be sure to join the Jack Kirby Museum (www.kirbymuseum.org), and check out Tom Kraft’s site whatifkirby.com

Gallery 1

Late Era FF Art

Fantastic Four #75 (June 1968), page 13 pencils.

Fantastic Four #75 (June 1968), page 14 pencils.

Fantastic Four #75 (June 1968), page 15 pencils.

Fantastic Four #90 (Sept. 1969), page 11 pencils.

Fantastic Four #90 (Sept. 1969), page 15 pencils.

Fantastic Four #90 (Sept. 1969), page 17 pencils.

Fantastic Four #90 (Sept. 1969), page 19 pencils.

Fantastic Four #91 (Oct. 1969), page 11 pencils.

Fantastic Four #91 (Oct. 1969), page 12 pencils.

Fantastic Four #91 (Oct. 1969), page 14 pencils.

Fantastic Four #91 (Oct. 1969), page 18 pencils.

The Third Eye, Inc. was co-founded by Allan and Roberta Ehrlich, and produced a wide variety of blacklight products. In the early 1970s, Third Eye produced blacklight Marvel comic book posters and greeting cards, including these that use Kirby imagery. TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc.

(page 49 and here) These Dr. Doom and Fantastic Four Marvelmania poster reproductions are courtesy of Fred Manzano of Editions Deesse in France. Colors by Mike Zeck and printed by Editions Deesse— Paris, France. These were a limited edition print run of 250 copies + 10 Artist Proofs + 10 Signed Proofs, serigraphed in 12 colors, and printed in 1991. Size is 89x61cm on Velin d’Arches paper.

www.kirbymuseum.org New publications and prints support our Brick & Mortar Fund! We’re happy to report that we’ve published a number of new items to raise funds for our Pop Up Storefront on the Lower East Side. The first two of our new items are courtesy of Arlen Schumer, starting with a color printing of his The Auteur Theory of Comics—as seen in issue #59 of this very magazine. Arlen (arlenschumer.com) also generously offered us the 32-page Jack Kirby chapter of his award-winning The Silver Age of Comic Book Art book. Not only are these publications beautiful and informative, but Arlen has also tirelessly and heroically hawked these items at the San Diego and New York conventions with all revenue going to our Pop-Up Campaign. Thanks to Arlen’s incredible support, we are much closer to reaching our goal. Our next item is the “King” t-shirt, with a design donated by Dylan Todd (bigredrobot.net). Dylan simply sent us an e-mail with the design, asking if we wanted to use it. We did, and we couldn’t be happier. Thanks, Dylan! Some of you may be familiar with Tom Morehouse—he’s one of the Museum’s earliest and strongest supporters. He suggested and co-curated the Civil War and Real Folks exhibits still running on our website. Tom’s also a gifted collagist, with collages in Abrams’ Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics 1993 coffee table book, and in Lucerne, Switzerland’s “The House That Jack Built” Fumetto 2011 retrospective. Tom’s allowed the Museum to offer prints of his latest collage The Power Packed Marvel Art Of Jack Kirby. A 17" x 22" edition has been printed, and we’re exploring a really large sized edition—closer to actual size—as well. We also printed a small edition of Kirby’s “Angel On the Streets Of Heaven” (17" x 22"), the NFL characters (8.5" x 11" each), the Pioneer Plaque (11" x 14"), Calpurnia (11" x 14"), and the Psychedelic Fliers (13" x 19" each). Check our website for availability. In fact, please check our website, Facebook page, Google+ page, Tumblr, and Twitter feed for ongoing updates regarding our activities.

Newsletter The Jack Kirby Museum and Research Center is organized exclusively for educational purposes; more specifically, to promote and encourage the study, understanding, preservation and appreciation of the work of Jack Kirby by: • illustrating the scope of Kirby’s multi-faceted career, • communicating the stories, inspirations and influences of Jack Kirby, • celebrating the life of Jack Kirby and his creations, and • building understanding of comic books and comic book creators. To this end, the Museum will sponsor and otherwise support study, teaching, conferences, discussion groups, exhibitions, displays, publications and cinematic, theatrical or multimedia productions. Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center PO Box 5236 Hoboken, NJ 07030 USA Telephone: (201) 963-4383

TJKC Edition Winter 2013

Original Art Digital Archive! Thanks to the support of many art collectors and dealers, we have almost 2500 pages of Kirby original art in our digital archive. Visit Museum Trustee Tom Kraft’s whatifkirby.com website to see some of these great pieces. We have some exciting plans for the archive, so stay tuned, and keep our effort in mind. We bring our scanners to conventions and to collectors’ homes to record these artifacts for posterity.

“Angel On the Streets Of Heaven”, originally for the Lord of Light project.

Brick & Mortar Fund! We are getting close to two-thirds of our $30,000 goal. Many thanks to these donors for their support of our efforts: John Nasr, Leo R. Taveras Jr., Alicia L. Miller, Richard Mancini, Benjamin L. Rosenbloom, Jonathan M. Stobezki, Jacob Briedfeld, Hannah K. Grass, Joseph Pelligrini, Bruce L. Cohen, Michael B. O’Neill, Jonathan Austin, John Gunn, Samanda Juede, Michael Ortiz, Dave Hill, Charles C Albritton III, Nathan Powell, Lisa Kirby, Jeffrey Nelson, Ted Haycraft, Don Rhoden, Andrew McAdams, Stephen Chaldjian, Mark Tran, Rand Hoppe, Doug Drexler, Alex Cox, Shane Phelps, August Wagner, Charlile Cabrera, Eric Axberg, Jason Week, David DiBlasio, Ben Adams, Daniel Reid, Thomas Matthew Barker. Also donating to the fund are those folks who fed our Mother Box at these events: Comic Con International San Diego, KAPOW Comic Con @ Monmouth County (NJ) Library, Asbury Park Comic Con, New York Comic Con, Brooklyn Comics & Graphics Festival.

We also thank our new and returning members for their support: Dusty Miller, Steve Coates, William J McGovern, Christian A Grasso, Michael Vazquez, Douglas Tursman, Lex Passaris, Charles Kremenak, Philip Botwinick, Pete Friedrich, James Sykes, Bob Clifford, Brian Yan, Gerard J Schumann III, John Nasr, Richard Mancini, Kris Reiss, Alex Pierpaoli, Corinna DeJong, Kevin Goring, Chris Faccone, Robyn B Fernald, Gary Rudolph Panucci, Scott Rowland, Edward Frost, Ian Matthews, Elijah Kinch Spector, Douglas Peltier, Jean Depelley, Mark Badger, Glen Brunswick, Tom Kraft, Franck Amblard, Jeffrey Meade, Patrick Monks, Mark Miller, Noah Ramos, Max Weremchuk, Mark Tran, Steve Saffel, Jeffrey Gelb, Juan Diaz, Kevin Sinchak, Enzo Marcello Crescenzi, Matt Webb, John Sagness, Ralph Rivard.

Annual Memberships with one of these posters: $40*

Captain America—23” x 29” 1941 Captain America—14” x 23”

Strange Tales—23” x 29” Super Powers—17” x 22” color

with one of these posters: $50*

And Furthermore: *Please add $10 for memberships outside the US, to cover additional postage costs. Posters come “as-is” and may not be in mint condition.

Thanks to Harry Mendryk for his six years writing the Simon & Kirby blog on our web site—he posted his last entry this past month. Also thanks to Lisa RigouxHoppe, Mike Cecchini, and Richard Bensam for their help with conventions and more. Of course, I thank my fellow Trustees Tom Kraft, John Morrow, and David Schwartz. And many thanks to the Kirby Estate. —Rand Hoppe

Marvel—14” x 23”

Galactic Head— 18” x 20” color

Incan Visitation—24” x 18” color

INNERVIEW

Stan & Jack: Excelsior Interview originally published in Excelsior #1, 1968 (Here’s an interesting curiosity: interviews conducted by mail with both Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, circa 1968, and published—in handwritten form—in the fanzine Excelsior #1 and, as far as we know, the only issue. The editors of the fanzine were listed as Salvatore Caputo and “The Kizer”; we were unsuccessful in attempts to track them down, but if you’re out there, please contact us for a free TJKC sub. First up were the questions for Stan Lee:)

changed so since the inception of the Marvel Age? STAN: I’m older—wiser— hungrier! EXCELSIOR: What hero or heroes in your youth really inspired you to write comics? STAN: No hero—I just wanted to write.

EXCELSIOR: What made you write in the new style that marked the inception of the Marvel Age? STAN LEE: Needed the dough! Also, bored with old style.

EXCELSIOR: At that time, did you idealize the stories that Joe Simon wrote with Jack Kirby? STAN: Yep! EXCELSIOR: Did you think that Simon & Kirby were a better team than Lee & Kirby? STAN: Nope!

EXCELSIOR: Did you feel you would rise to your present height of achievement or just fade out as others with as much ability to entertain had previously? STAN: Shucks—I thought I’d rise higher!

EXCELSIOR: Who conceived the F.F.? You or Jack? STAN: Both—’twas mainly my idea, but Jack created characters visually.

EXCELSIOR: Do you feel differently about comics now than you did then? If not, why have your comics

EXCELSIOR: Why is the Hulk a carbon copy of the Thing? STAN: He isn’t!

(below) Courtesy of Mike Burkey at www.romitaman.com, here’s a very late era Kirby drawing, from 1986. Jack never did quite get the feel of Steve Ditko’s SpiderMan’s costume design, even till the end of his career. (Which reminds us that, as far as we know, Jack’s original Spider-Man pages— drawn before the assignment was handed off to Steve Ditko to redesign—have never surfaced, and remain this magazine’s editor’s Holy Grail of Kirby art. Anyone seen them?)

EXCELSIOR: What makes former DC fans so enthusiastic about Marvel, that two of them—Gary Friedrich and Roy Thomas—write for you? STAN: They have good taste—(some of ’em). EXCELSIOR: Why do you think that the latest Charlton Comics bid for power in the comics world failed when they had artists like Ditko and writers like Friedrich? STAN: It would take a whole book for me to answer that. EXCELSIOR: Why has Spider-Man changed so radically? Is it because of Steve Ditko’s departure? STAN: Partially—also, all our characters keep changing. EXCELSIOR: Have you achieved all the goals you wanted to reach at the outset of the Marvel Age? STAN: Nobody ever fully achieves a goal—by the time it’s achieved, there’s another one ahead. EXCELSIOR: Do you have a favorite character in the Marvel group? If so, who and why? If not, why? STAN: I love ’em all. It’s like asking a parent, “Who’s your favorite child?”! EXCELSIOR: Which character has been the most well-received by your fans? STAN: It varies from month to month. Almost all are extremely popular. EXCELSIOR: What do you think of these questions? STAN: I’m getting writer’s cramp! EXCELSIOR: Why did you bring out Not Brand Echh? STAN: It seemed like a good idea at the time—I like to write humor. ‘Nuff Said! S.L. 54

Then came Kirby’s turn to respond to questions:

Fawcett Publications: “Captain Marvel #1 (possible Simon & Kirby)”. Did you draw or create the Captain Marvel of the Forties? JACK: Joe and I produced that Captain Marvel. But it was created by Eddie Heron, a great comics writer.

EXCELSIOR: Please explain the Simon-Kirby team of the Forties (e.g. who created characters, wrote the stories, inked, etc.). JACK KIRBY: Joe and I did equally well in all phases of the art and stories. However, he was better schooled in lettering and production.

EXCELSIOR: Who wrote that article about Jack Ruby in the May ’67 issue of Esquire? JACK: The article was written by John Berent. I drew it.

EXCELSIOR: Did you draw the Vision? If you did, do you remember the powers that he possessed and could you tell us of these powers? JACK: I created the Vision as a feature of Marvel Comics. He was the forerunner of the “Spider-Man and Silver Surfer Eye.” [Editor’s note: The huge, pupil-less eyeballs both heroes possess.] If I remember correctly, his powers were of a mystic nature.

EXCELSIOR: Who created the Inhumans, you or Stan Lee? JACK: I did. EXCELSIOR: Do you plot the Fantastic Four stories by drawing the basic story and then having Stan write the dialogue? JACK: This is Stanley’s editorial policy. As a Marvel artist, I carry it out. H

EXCELSIOR: Why do you portray Thor with long, blonde hair instead of the traditional red hair and bear of the Norse legends? JACK: The Norse legends are free domain. A traditionalist will leave them as they are. As a creative person, I must treat them in the context of “now.” Today, blondes have more fun.

EXCELSIOR: Why was there a change in Captain America’s shield? I mean, from the triangular shield of Captain America #1 (1941) to the present circular, and when did this change take place? JACK: The change was a mutual decision and took place early in the series. EXCELSIOR: What was the original intent of the Fighting American—why was he created? JACK: Fighting American was another attempt at a Captain America. It started off in a serious vein. But I thought it might be novel to give it a satirical twist and played it that way! TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc.

EXCELSIOR: How do you achieve the “honeycomb” effect you had in the background of Fantastic Four #72 (March 1968)’s cover [below]? JACK: All effects emerge from drawing style. The referred to “effect” merely illustrated my concept of that particular atmosphere.

EXCELSIOR: How long did Fighting American last (from what year to what year)? JACK: Fighting American came to life and died in the 1950s. EXCELSIOR: What did Steve Rogers do after WWII for a living and how did Bucky fit into this occupation? JACK: I didn’t participate in the series after the War. When Marvel began its new super-hero cycle and revived C.A., I entered the picture. EXCELSIOR: Who was the first super-hero you drew? JACK: The Blue Beetle. EXCELSIOR: On a comic book list, we saw this under

Glen Gold writes: “I just took this FF #94 page home from Heritage’s auction—it’s the page where Franklin gets his middle name. The margin notes are pretty hazy but if I read them right, Jack thought it went as follows: The kid’s name is Franklin, after Sue and Johnny’s dad. Reed and Sue are sad that her father isn’t around. Ben says “If he’s gone, why not let me hold the kid in his place?” Johnny says, “No, Ben, you’ll crush him.” Ben seems to indicate otherwise. I can’t read the notes for the last panel. “In other words, Jack didn’t say anything about Franklin’s middle name. “Franklin Benjamin Richards” is a true Kirby & Lee collaboration. Probably one of their last.” 55

Adam McGovern

Know of some Kirby-inspired work that should be covered here? Send to: Adam McGovern PO Box 257

Mt. Tabor, NJ 07878

As A Genre A regular feature examining Kirby-inspired work, by Adam McGovern

focused on the work of independent Black comics artists. I had some experience in this area due to my book Black Comix: African American Independent Comics Art and Culture which was published in 2009 with Damian Duffy, my longtime collaborator and friend. I got the idea to design posters that were Afrocentric versions of classic Kirby characters and I executed a series of five for the exhibit. They were wellreceived. That very same summer was around the time of the Disney/Kirby Estate lawsuit. Stacey Robinson and myself were very upset and disheartened by the decision to deny the Kirby family any remuneration despite the fact that the art and story was deemed to have been produced by Kirby as work-for-hire. We then began to look at connections between the sometimes traumatic issues around progress in the Jewish American community and in the African American community and we started to make work based on these conceptual, formal, and social intersections.

Kirby on Canvas (this page) Kirby and Franz Kline team up across two stacks of simultaneous history! (next page, clockwise from top left) Superpower to the people (Master Blaster Remixed); Jack reloaded (Ultimate Nullifier); high-design only for chillin’ (UltraMagnetic Hi-Top Fade); Kirb Yoruba enthusiasm (The Mighty Shango); all from the Black Kirby collection. TM & ©2013 John Jennings and Stacey Robinson

Being a survey course on the King’s presence in the halls of fine art. Interview with John Jennings conducted via e-mail by Adam McGovern on November 18-19, 2012 PAINT IT BLACK The Kirby picture-frame was legendary—for much of his career, a standard static rectangular grid through which the most kinetic and complex worlds were glimpsed. He was also famous for the movie-projector panorama, stories opening out into full-page or double-page vistas of action and information. They were pop-art canvases waiting to be hung, widescreen IMAX overloads ready to be born, and Kirby’s parallel to hipster art and prophesy of blockbuster fantasy and sci-fi cinema is well-noted. Kirby’s work didn’t just edge into whole mediums but entire cultures, and the Black Kirby exhibit, currently traveling fine-art venues throughout our universe, connects with Kirby from the direction of African America’s artistic advances and social strivings and the secret identities of being immersed yet apart in the majority culture it has indispensably contributed to. Black Kirby is the shared code-name of art professor, author and graphic novelist John Jennings and artist Stacey Robinson, their work boom-tubing across the academic and gallery worlds and drawing in all open-eyed viewers as we speak. I spoke with Jennings while the show was phasing in to its Buffalo, NY stop (subtitled In Search of The Motherboxx Connection).

TJKC: Kirby was obsessed with tech, in the very homemade medium of comics; both reggae and hip-hop would come to be similarly machine-based while originating from creators who started from as little as Kirby and projected it into his kind of mysticism or mythology. Is there a kinship in the weird sacred circuitry he portrayed? JJ: We were inspired by Kirby’s obsessive tech! After reading Charles Hatfield’s remarkable book Hand of Fire, we were very interested in this notion of “sublime technology”; tech so advanced and arcane that it became magical or divine. As Black artists who are interested in Afrofuturism [the movement of racial history reset in a cosmic context, from Samuel R. Delany to George Clinton and lightyears beyond] and its connections to popular culture, we could definitely see the kinship between concepts like the Mothership Connection and the Mother Box, the Source and Funk/Soul, and the concept of re-appropriation of technology for uses other than the initial intentions of the creators. We also began to conceptualize around the idea that an Afrofuturistic ideology is one that is a decidedly pan-technological one. That is: everything is a technology. That includes power, race, gender, religion, and every system that is created by mankind to mediate reality. Kirby’s machines were symbols that connected man to this notion of the Big Machine that connected us to the very center of the universe. Hip Hop uses technology to create soundscapes that have moved the entire world. Kirby’s remixes of folklore, sci-fi, and high adventure have done that as well. There are countless overlaps between the ideas.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: What pointed you toward Kirby as a conduit for the concerns in the exhibit? There are many iconic pop aesthetics to choose from in his (space)time period—or was it that Kirby uniquely pointed a way out of and saw beyond his own mid-century culture, like data from Mars we’re still getting caught up on? JOHN JENNINGS: The initial spark of us engaging with Jack Kirby’s work as a serious influence on this project was twopronged. The first came from a curatorial project called Fantastic Blackness that I did with Dr. Adilifu Nama. Dr. Nama is a professor of African American Studies at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He approached me about consulting on an exhibition at Cal State Northridge that

TJKC: Kirby’s values were forged in and defined against the race-based brutality he was immersed in as a youth—from the ethnic turf wars of early 20th century ghettos to Adolf Hitler’s world war. He seems to have been more conscious, in his rough honest way, of cultural divisions, and more eager to address them, than many white creators of his generation and upbringing. Does his work speak inherently to an Afro-positive sensibility, or is it a matter of universal visual appeal that’s facilitated by his at-least above-average attitude? 56

around sampling and remixing into a visual aesthetic. That includes collage, bricolage, montage, pastiche, parody, and all modes of re-appropriation. The intertextual nature of the collage not only fits Kirby’s own ideas about making meaning and art, it dovetailed nicely with a lot of the things that Black Kirby wanted to deal with as well. We found that more and more, this enterprise was an organic one and we definitely welcomed the idea of building culture from the ones before it into the fabric of the show. That’s how we learn history and how we exchange knowledge. Again, these overlapping ideas of comics, postproduction, postmodernism, Afrofuturism and Hip Hop just kept becoming a strong ligature to all of Kirby’s ideas about art.

JJ: I think that Kirby’s work speaks to anyone who has been overlooked, bullied, disenfranchised, or denied access to their rightful share of justice. One of the things that Black Kirby was founded upon was this idea that the comics medium could be used for change and as a space of resistance. Kirby and a lot of the other Jewish comics artists have claimed the comics panels as modes of discourse around a great deal of social issues and we found that the Black Age of Comics artists [a 20-year current in comics scholarship, with a network of conventions, creations and educational events] have done exactly the same. Even though some of the issues were different according to the needs of each party, the idea that there was a space that was accessible for this kind of potential is just very empowering. I think that Kirby’s aesthetic and attitudes welcomed everyone, but I think that he felt like an underdog at times and I think that he created characters and stories that dealt with these narratives. America, for good or ill, was once an underdog. So it only makes sense that the people who came to her shores with hope and dreams would want to make stories about the notion of overcoming adversity. That’s the story of the immigrant, the slave, and the outcast. Kirby demonstrated to us all that the story he was trying to convey was everyone’s.

TJKC: How do you find that so individualistic a look as Kirby’s can become a sign-system for a whole generation of artists responding to it? Saleable styles typically get replicated, but his seems replenished, not least in a show like yours. JJ: Kirby helped define the conventions of a genre. He taught us what “super,” “ultra,” and “extra” really meant. His visual language has inspired generations and I feel it will continue to. He built his own mythology and gave it to us. Black Kirby, like many other endeavors, is using that mythology as our own and building upon that as well. His work speaks to the innate raw, graphic, symbolic nature of how we envision power and awe. Somehow, Kirby was able to summon this awe and drape it across his pages. He inspired everyone I know who works in comics.

TJKC: Kirby was famous for his avant-for-comics collages, and collage is of course the defining artistic method of the 21st century, as harbingered by hip-hop’s sound-collection since the late 1970s. Does this re-inventive sensibility he had embolden you to “collage” his style into the exhibit’s works? JJ: Once we began to do more research on Kirby and found his wonderful collages…we were just overjoyed! We are both children of the Hip Hop generation and are both very interested in actively translating the notions

TJKC: The very title of the show overlaps with the Black-culture makeover that Grant Morrison envisioned for the Fourth World characters in his Seven Soldiers saga—I think he saw the center of creativity and the mainlines of social concern bending away from the arbitrary Western European model and morphed these modern divinities in response. Do you see Kirby’s content on a course to converge with such immediate interests, even this long after he left this dimension? 57

Illinois, and other spaces. We are still working on other venues. Also, we are already planning other Black Kirby shows, stories, merchandise, and exhibitions. I think that we have created a really awesome space of play that pays a deep homage to an artist we both admire but also has created a jumping-off point for so much more. The future is bright. Luckily we have the star-shaped Kirbyesque shades to see through to the next horizon. [http://www.hallwalls.org/visual/5278.html]

JJ: I suppose that we can’t be certain where Kirby was going to push his work; however, I think that the world is beginning to catch up with his vision. The world is a more progressive place now and popular fantasy needs more complex ideas about heroes, villains, narratives, etc. in order to remain relevant to the hordes of new readers and active consumers of various myths and legends out there now. Comics are a powerful medium and, slowly but surely, our country is beginning to see that. Kirby was an innovator and he helped, in his own way, usher in a radicalized methodology for making meaning via the comics medium. One day, we may even catch up or exceed his vision. One day. Until then, we still need to keep pushing the medium in terms of representation across the board so that everyone feels that they have a story and that they are important.

POST-KIRBY The limitless canvas of the computer-screen is a fertile continuum for reflection on Kirby’s input to the collective media consciousness. At scholar Dr. Andrei Molotiu’s blog Abstract Comics (identity-double of his acclaimed book by that title), comparisons are drawn between the trajectory of Kirby’s visual and thematic concerns and instincts toward the outer edge of Modernism (with its direct diagrammatic designs and bold gestures), and the “high” arts’ expanding frame of interest in pop (with Kirby-style pulp and passion projected large), during both Kirby’s and the gallery/museum world’s mid-20th century prime. Molotiu addressed the 2012 San Diego Comic Con on the subject and is preparing another book, of new comic artistry drawn from the basic elements of Kirby’s pictorial textures and trademarks, showing how myriad other hands can stay busy on the unfinished future, which was perhaps Kirby’s greatest work. [http://abstractcomics.blogspot.com/2012/04/kirby-slash.html]

TJKC: I’ve long held that Tom Strong’s Millennium City is based on Buffalo, with its grand blocky deco battlements—but Buffalo is an ideal Kirby metropolis too, embodying his industrious ethic and materializing his grand monumental sci-fi geometry. Were your very surroundings a partial supercollider for the show? JJ: Honestly, getting a show at a prestigious space like Hallwalls Contemporary Arts Center [in Buffalo] was sort of a fluke. True enough, the city has the very qualities that you state but, the show is made to be very portable and modular. So, it was designed to fit any space given the right parameters. I think that a lot of our visual language really came from the overt collaboration between me, Stacey and the man himself. The images grew from the conceptual and formal connections that we could glean from the work. Stacey lives in Fayetteville, North Carolina so he wasn’t as privy to the metropolis of which you speak. Also, the first showing of the exhibit was in Mississippi at Jackson State University. So, maybe some of the city was being channeled subconsciously, but who’s to say?

PAINTED OVER Kirby journalism is never far from the subject of due credit, and I lapsed in that obligation when letting the cornucopia that was the “Kirby Enthusiasm” art show at Maxwell’s in Hoboken, NJ dazzle me away from the fine print of two definitively fine artists’ names when I more generally captioned an installation shot. Unfolded to full frames of their own here, please put hands together and thoughtfully rub chins for the existential panel-escape portrait of Mister Miracle Scott, Three by Kevin Colden [left], and the untitled abstraction (paging Dr. Molotiu!) choreographed from pure Kirby kinetics by James Romberger [below]. Guys, you’re worthy of infinite reprints! H

TJKC: Black Kirby seems like not so much a single event as an ongoing movement. Where do you envision the exhibit going next, and how do you see the project expanding? JJ: That’s totally true. Black Kirby is an “entity” that is comprised of Stacey and myself. It’s a reification of the notion of double consciousness and a symbol of the collaborative nature of the man we are inspired by but also by the medium that he mastered. It’s also a means by which we can take that medium and make a space where everyone is equal and empowered. So, there will most likely be shows of In Search of The Motherboxx Connection in New York, Chicago, Virginia,

(top right) Andrei Molotiu’s own work zooms in on uncut Kirby chemistry! If you take this image [left] of Kirby pencils and flop it as we have here, you’ll get a very similar vibe. TM & ©2013 Andrei Molotiu. Kirby art TM & ©2013 Jack Kirby Estate.

A Western Tale

An early, complete Kirby story from Western Tales #55 (July 1956). Color by Tom Ziuko.

Foundations

Retrospective

Key 1960s Moments by John Morrow

It’s long been discussed that the changes Stan Lee made to Jack’s story in the “Him” storyline in FF were pivotal in Kirby’s decision to stop offering Marvel new characters and concepts in the 1960s. So here’s original stats from Jack’s files of issue #66 (the first issue of that arc, before the big changes were made). The timeline of events we present here should help give you an idea of Jack’s mindset up to the point when these editorial changes were made. Don’t forget that these stats are from Jack’s files, sent to him by Marvel—he saw and read all these notations while working on the next, pivotal issue.

here were many key moments at Marvel in the 1960s, but the first one that really sent shockwaves through fandom (and Marvel) was the 1966 departure of Steve Ditko from the company. Don’t you suppose that got Stan to thinking, “Gee, what if I lose Jack Kirby, too?” Shortly thereafter, in an odd twist, Stan began occasionally letting Jack script a few stories here and there in the latter 1960s. Was that an effort on Stan’s part to keep him happy at the company? To clarify the chronology of events in my mind, I decided to prepare this timeline of key moments that affected Marvel, and Lee and Kirby’s relationship in the 1960s. Of invaluable help were Rand Hoppe, past research by Mark Evanier and Pat Ford online, as well as online excerpts from Sean Howe’s Marvel Comics: The Untold Story (I plan to read the full book soon). This isn’t a complete list of every important date in Marvel’s 1960s history, but hopefully hits most of the key ones. I’m sure I’ve left some out, and more will come to light in the future, so please send us additions and corrections. Next issue, I’ll update it, and continue the timeline into the 1970s and beyond. My rule of thumb: Cover dates were generally twothree months later than the date the book appeared on the stands, and six months ahead of when Kirby was working on the stories, so I’ve assembled the timeline according to those adjusted dates—not the cover dates—to set it more closely to real-time.

1964 • This year: Marvel sells 27,709,000 copies of its comics, with an expectation of 32,000,000 for 1965, showing a nearly 50% increase in 3 years. 102 Kirby covers are published (most in a single year). • Also this year: Martin Goodman becomes worried about Stan’s popularity and the control he has over the Marvel line, and pressures him to have other writers handle some of the stories. Stan develops “writer’s test” using four Kirby pages from FF Annual #2, with the balloons whited-out. • May (July/Summer cover dates): FF Annual #2, FF #28, and Avengers #6 are published. Original art for these issues are the earliest pages to show Kirby’s handwriting in the margin notes, but all these issues also feature Chic Stone as the inker for the first time, so it’s unclear if Kirby included notes prior to these, and other inkers simply erased Jack’s notes when they erased the pencil art after inking. • September: Addams Family and Munsters television series debut (influences Kirby’s creation of the Inhumans later).

1961 • This year: Marvel sells 18,700,000 copies of its comics. • February 25: Final Sky Masters daily strip sees print. Page 8, panel 4: There’s a note from Stan to have John Romita pretty-up Crystal’s face.

Page 4 note to inker Joe Sinnott from letterer Artie Simek: “Joe, pages will be skipped -- Stan took em out for art changes -[illegible] -- do your best. -Art S.”

• April-May: Fantastic Four #1 conceived by Lee and Kirby, and drawn by Kirby.

• December (February cover date): FF #35 published, with first ad for MMMS fan club, using Kirby art to sell $1 memberships and, later, promotional products. Flo Steinberg has said, “Nobody expected the fan-club to be so big. There were thousands of letters and dollar bills flying around all over the place. We were throwing them at each other.”

• August 8 (November cover date): FF #1 goes on sale.

1962 • This year: Marvel sells 19,740,000 copies of its comics. 1158 Kirby pages are published (most in a single year). • June (August cover date): Amazing Fantasy #15 published, featuring Ditko’s Spider-Man, after Kirby’s original version was rejected. • November (January 1963 cover date): FF #10 features the first appearance of Lee and Kirby in a comic. On the letters page, Stan tells readers to drop the formal “Dear Editor” salutation in letters, and to instead address them to “Dear Stan and Jack.”

1963 • This year: Marvel sells 22,530,000 copies of its comics.

Page 6 margin notes by Kirby have the police officer telling Ben he was in the police detail that fought the Super Skrull, and Ben saved his hide in the battle; Stan didn’t carry this through in the final dialogue.

1965 • Early this year: Marvel’s reacts to news of an impending Batman TV series, and of new publishers jumping on the super-hero bandwagon due to their success, as Martin Goodman tells Stan to add more books, to keep Marvel from getting crowded off newsstands. Soon thereafter, Lee and Kirby develop the Inhumans and Black Panther (originally named Coal Tiger)—both of which feature a character visually similar to Batman—but DC controlled Marvel’s distribution, and wouldn’t allow the new books to be added to Marvel’s output (they were eventually included in the FF).

• January (March cover date): Tales of Suspense #63 published, the first of several reworks of 1940s S&K Cap stories (with no mention of Simon). • This year and next: Kirby assigned to do layouts for Hulk series in Tales to Astonish, Captain America in Tales of Suspense, Nick Fury in Strange Tales, for Don Heck on Avengers, and for Werner Roth on X-Men. He came to view this as doing the majority of the storytelling, for only a fraction of the pay. • March (May cover date): Charlton’s Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds #46 published, featuring Son of Vulcan (influenced by Marvel’s Thor). • April (June cover date): Charlton begins reprinting Captain Atom adventures in Strange Suspense Stories #75, and renames the title Captain Atom with #78 in October (December 1965 cover date), the first of its Action Hero line.

Page 15, last panel: Note from Stan that Sue has no neck, and to fix it.

• June (August cover date): Spider-Man T-shirt first offered for sale in Spider-Man #27.

which was apparently in production at that time.

1966

• Summer: FF Annual #3 published, with Stan and Jack appearing in the story together at Reed and Sue’s wedding.

• This year: Joe Simon sues Marvel in state court, and then in 1967 in federal court, claiming that Captain America was his creation and that he was entitled to the renewal on the copyright registration. Carl Burgos does likewise over his creation The Human Torch. • January 9: NY Herald Tribune article appears, which greatly offends Kirby, and possibly Ditko. In it, Stan also says, “I don’t plot Spider-Man any more. Steve Ditko, the artist, has been doing the stories. I guess I’ll leave him alone until sales start to slip. Since Spidey got so popular, Ditko thinks he’s the genius of the world. We were arguing so much over plot lines I told him to start making up his own stories. He won’t let anybody else ink his drawings either. He just drops off the finished pages with notes at the margins and I fill in the dialogue. I never know what he’ll come up with next, but it’s interesting to work that way.” FF #48 (March cover date) goes on sale the same month, with first appearance of Galactus and the Silver Surfer (a character Stan has said he knew nothing about until Kirby turned in the pages with him on them).

• August (October cover date): Daredevil #10 is published, wherein Wally Wood fought for and received the writing credit from Stan Lee. • September (November cover date): Jack introduces the Inhumans in FF #44. • September (November cover date): Tower Comics’ T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #1 (featuring art by Wally Wood), and Archie’s Mighty Crusaders #1, are published. Wally Wood had just left Marvel over creative differences with Stan Lee. Kirby and Wood were contemporaries who were known to speak to each other fairly regularly.

• January 12: Batman TV series debuts as a mid-season replacement. • January to February: After months of not directly communicating with Stan, Ditko turns in Spider-Man #38 and resigns. He asks Kirby to join him on a walkout to pressure Marvel into a better contract, and Kirby initially agrees, but backs out due to concerns over supporting his family. (This comes per Robert Beerbohm’s conversations with Jack: http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/dynamics/2012/02/11/goodman-vs-ditko-kirby-byrobert-beerbohm/) • February (April cover date): Myron Fass’ Captain Marvel #1 is published (the character who splits apart into pieces) and co-opts both the famous 1940s character’s name, and the name of Martin Goodman’s company in an attempt to cause market confusion. It’s drawn by Carl Burgos, creator of the Human Torch for Goodman in the 1940s.

• October (December cover date): Modeling with Millie #44 is published, featuring Roy Thomas’ first Marvel writing work.

• April (June cover date): Fantasy Masterpieces #3 published, featuring the first of a series of Simon & Kirby 1940s Captain America reprints, with Joe Simon’s credit line removed. • May (July cover date): Tales to Astonish #81 published, featuring Kirby’s documented design for the villain Boomerang. Also, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #6 is published by Tower Comics, featuring art by both Wally Wood and Steve Ditko.

• November (January 1966 cover date): Daredevil #12 published, with Kirby assigned to do layouts for John Romita, and to design the villain The Plunderer. • December 1965: Interview for New York Herald Tribune article takes place, where Stan is giving art direction to Sol Brodsky about a page from FF #50, page 8,

• May (July cover date): FF #52 published, with the Black Panther’s debut, and includes an announcement that Ditko is leaving Marvel. The real-life Black Panther organization wouldn’t officially be formed until October 1966, but shortly before this issue went into production, news articles were published (as early as January) about a Black Panther logo being used by an organization in Alabama. Page 11, panel 1: Stan’s note says “Isn’t Sue too fat?” (It’s actually Alicia, not Sue.) Panel 3: Note to make Alicia’s bosom smaller, although Stan apparently thinks it’s Sue.

• This year: Kirby stops doing most layouts for other artists. This is the point his work begins to reach its 1960s peak, as he has more time to devote to his own stories. Also, Kirby draws the first of his Fourth World concept drawings, but doesn’t show them to Marvel. • Mid-1966: Lancer paperbacks are released, reprinting Kirby Fantastic 65

• September (November cover date): Stan includes the note “Jack, you’re still the greatest” on a pin-up in FF Special #5 pin-up, which was published shortly after the “Him” story in FF #66-67 that upset Jack. Stan apparently tosses Jack a bone by letting him write the 3-page “This is a plot?” throwaway story in the issue, and had Jack draw a solo Silver Surfer/Quasimodo story as well—perhaps as a peace offering, since Jack wasn’t happy with the way the Surfer was being handled. Inhumans backups also begin in Thor #146, likely made from previously created Inhumans stories that weren’t published.

Four, Thor, and Hulk stories. (The Fantastic Four book quotes the 1966 New York Herald-Tribune article.) Also, Donruss’ Marvel Super-Heroes set of 66 trading cards released, using Kirby art (both presumably unpaid). • June: Stan takes a train trip to Florida on his first-ever vacation, and lets Jack script the SHIELD story in Strange Tales #148 (September 1966) after plotting the story together. Stan noted in an interview, “I [did] a little editing later, but it was [Jack’s] story.” Stan also assigned Roy Thomas to script the Tales To Astonish #82 (August 1966) Iron Man/Sub-Mariner fight, but Roy gives Jack all the credit for the plot.

• October (December cover date): Marvel Super-Heroes #12 is published, with the debut of Marvel’s Captain Marvel (Mar-vell). Kirby felt this idea came from an offhand conversation he’d had in the offices, for which he wasn’t credited.

• Summer: Fantastic Four Special #4 is released, featuring the original Human Torch battling the FF’s Torch. Carl Burgos’ daughter sees her father destroy all his old Timely Comics, as a reaction to the FF Special story, and/or losing his bid to reclaim the copyright on the Human Torch.

• This year: New ads were printed that announced a “Nifty New Membership Kit” for the MMMS, including new merchandise for sale with Kirby artwork.

• July 12: Goodman convinces Kirby to sign a deposition against Joe Simon in the Captain America copyright case, siding with Marvel, with the promise of receiving whatever Simon gets in any settlement.

1968

• July: Martin Goodman offers Myron Fass $6000 for the copyright on his Captain Marvel; Fass refuses.

• Early this year: Kirby begins, unsuccessfully, trying to negotiate a better contract with Martin Goodman.

• August (October cover date): Joe Simon releases Fighting American #1 and The Spirit #1 at Harvey Comics, featuring reprints and new material. Simon also oversees the first of the Harvey Thriller line of new super-hero comics for Harvey.

• March-June (May-August cover dates): FF #74-77 published, with Jack leading to a climax and jumping-off point on the Silver Surfer storyline, possibly preparing to work on his own Silver Surfer book.

• August (October cover date): Thor #133 published, which at Jack’s insistence, is the first to include the joint credit “A Stan Lee—Jack Kirby Production” (in the “Tales of Asgard” story) instead of separate credits for Stan as “Writer” and Jack as “Artist.” Future Thor issues would continue this. This issue also features the debut of a balding, bearded “Ego, the Living Planet”; perhaps a subtle shot at Stan? FF #55 is also published with Marvel t-shirt and poster ads, using Kirby art to sell merchandise (presumably unpaid).

• April (June cover date): Beware the Creeper #1 by Steve Ditko is published by DC Comics.

• September 1: Marvel Super-Heroes cartoon debuts, with no payment to Kirby for reuse of art. Robert Lawrence of Gantray-Lawrence accompanies Stan Lee on a wildly popular college lecture circuit tour to promote it. A September Esquire article mentions Stan speaking at Princeton, Bard and NYU, and that Marvel had sold 50,000 t-shirts and 30,000 sweat-shirts.

• June (August cover date): Silver Surfer #1 published the same month as FF #77: John Buscema is assigned to draw the solo title, apparently without Jack’s knowledge. Kirby feels his character has been taken away from him.

• May 22: Kirby takes a $2000 loan from Martin Goodman to finance his family’s upcoming move to California, to live in a better climate for his daughter’s asthma. Around this time, Bill Everett also takes a “loan” from Goodman, which was an off the record agreement that Everett wouldn’t sue over Sub-Mariner copyrights, so as not to hurt the sale of Marvel to Perfect Film.

• September (November cover date): FF #56 published, with “Produced by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby” credit instead of separate listings for Writer and Artist. • October (December cover date): FF #57 published, with back cover ad for the Marvel Aurora model kits, featuring Kirby art of Hulk and Captain America (presumably unpaid). • December (February 1967 cover date): Strange Tales #153 published, with Kirby’s final layouts for another artist (in this case, Steranko).

1967 • February (April cover date): Strange Tales #155 is published, with Steranko’s first writing credit. • July (September cover date): Thor #144 published, without its original Kirby cover, which was rejected by Stan. This issue’s “Tales of Asgard” back-up is entitled “The Beginning of the End”. Stan has often said that Kirby was mostly responsible for these stories, as he knew the Norse legends better than Stan. • August (October cover date): FF #67 published, with last part of “Him” story, and heavy characterization changes to Kirby’s characters by Stan. (This was the last issue drawn on large-size art.) Also, the final “Tales of Asgard” back-up in Thor #145 is published, titled “The End,” possibly alluding to discontent on Jack’s part. • September 9: First of 20 Fantastic Four cartoons airs, using Lee/Kirby FF issues as the basis for each story (presumably unpaid). Also, America’s Best TV Comics is published in conjunction with ABC-TV, with Kirby story reprint (presumably unpaid).

Page 17: Stan’s notes say to shorten skirt on Alicia. Also says, “Sue’s hair might be good this way always --”. Last panel in border: Stan complains that all of Kirby’s females look identical, drawing a simplified head and writing: “All gals J.K. draws! How about model sheet for him?” 66

• July: Sale of Marvel Comics to Perfect Film is finalized. Perfect Film is “over running the company” by September 1968, even though Martin Goodman is retained as publisher. • August 31: Kirby repays half of the loan from Goodman. • This year: Stan Lee interview is published in Castle of Frankenstein #12, wherein Stan says of Jack, “Some artists, such as Jack Kirby, need no plot at all. I mean I’ll just say to Jack, ‘Let’s let the next villain be Dr. Doom’... or I may not even say that. He may tell me. And then he goes home and does it. He’s so good at plots, I’m sure he’s a thousand times better than I. He just about makes up the plots for these stories. All I do is a little editing... I may tell him that he’s gone too far in one direction or another. Of course, occasionally I’ll give him a plot, but we’re practically both the writers on the things.”

1969 • January: Kirby family moves from New York to California,

Page 18: There’s a big dead space in panel 5, and some kind of note from Stan (cropped off our stats) pointing to that area, that ends “...check J.K.’s...ing!” • Early March: Kirby draws the published version of FF #102, his final story for Marvel. After mailing in the pages, he phones Stan and resigns.

further distancing Jack from the Marvel offices. • This year: Marvelmania fan club established, selling merchandise with Kirby artwork on it. However, Kirby was paid to produce new material, although he reportedly didn’t receive full payment for it before Marvelmania went bankrupt.

• March 12: Don and Maggie Thompson publish an unprecedented “Extra” edition of their fanzine Newfangles announcing Kirby is leaving Marvel. • April (June cover date): Chamber of Darkness #5 published, with the story “And Fear Shall Follow” scripted by Kirby.

• This year: Joe Simon signs a Settlement Agreement with Marvel over Captain America for a payment of $3750. Less than $1000 was paid directly to Simon, with the rest secretly being funneled to him through his attorney, per Marvel’s wishes. Marvel does this so they can pay Kirby only the smaller amount that Simon got directly.

• June (August cover date): Amazing Adventures #1 is published from Jack’s split apart solo books, with Kirby drawing and scripting The Inhumans, and featuring Black Bolt out of character with a thought balloon for one panel. Also, Astonishing Tales #1 is published from Kirby’s split apart solo book, featuring Ka-Zar, with script by Stan Lee and art by Kirby. It also features a second Dr. Doom solo story, by Wally Wood, returning to Marvel Comics.

• March (May cover date): Stan apologizes in his Soapbox that the Inhumans title he said was coming out, isn’t.

• July (September cover date): Silver Surfer #18 is published, with Inhumans guest-starring. With Kirby gone, Marvel cancels the book after this issue. Also, FF #102 is published, Jack’s last issue.

• July-September (September-November cover date): Thor #168-170 published, with altered Galactus origin story and other editorial changes. Issue #169, released in August, has an inordinate amount of unused pages, suggesting almost an entire issue was rejected by Stan.

• July (September cover date): Amazing Adventures #2 published, with Kirby drawing and scripting The Inhumans, includes “Stan’s Soapbox” announcing Jack’s resignation from Marvel.

• This year: Kirby withholds full-page splashes from Thor, replacing them with supposedly lesser pages, presumably at wife Roz’s urging (“They’re too good for them...”).

• August (October cover date): Jimmy Olsen #133 published with Kirby’s first work for DC Comics.

• November (January 1970 cover date): Kirby withholds original design of Agatha Harkness for FF #94, as too good for them, as well.

• August (October cover date): Astonishing Tales #2 published, featuring KaZar, script by Roy Thomas (other than Iron Man/Subby battle in Tales To Astonish #82, this may be the first non-Stan Marvel scripting for Kirby). Includes some major non-Kirby redraws on Ka-Zar figures.

• December: Jack goes to New York to try to negotiate a new deal with Marvel/Perfect Film, unsuccessfully. He agrees to write and draw two fulllength Inhumans issues, and to draw the first issue of a new Ka-Zar book, and goes home and completes them.

• September (November cover date): Amazing Adventures #3 published, with Kirby’s Inhumans.

• Late 1969-early 1970: Kirby meets with Carmine Infantino to show New Gods presentation pieces, and discuss the possibility of coming to DC Comics.

• November (January 1971 cover date): Kirby stories in Amazing Adventures #4 and Tower of Shadows #4 published by Marvel, the same month as Jimmy Olsen #135 at DC Comics.

1970

• December (February 1971 cover date): Forever People #1 and New Gods #1 published at DC Comics.

• This year: Kirby’s Hulk and Spider-Man posters for Marvelmania are replaced with versions by Herb Trimpe and John Romita, respectively, so all the Marvelmania materials won’t be dependent on Kirby’s signature style.

1971

• January: Kirby receives a “onerous” contract from Perfect Film to continue working at Marvel, telling him “take it or leave it.”

• January (March cover date): FF #108 published from Jack’s original rejected FF #102 story, the same month that DC Comics publishes Mister Miracle #1 and Jimmy Olsen #136.

• Late January: Kirby is told to split his two Inhumans and one Ka-Zar story into 10-pagers, which are eventually used in Amazing Adventures and Astonishing Tales split-books.

1972 • June: After Martin Goodman calls in the rest of his loan, Kirby “under duress” signs a copyright agreement with Marvel.

• February: Kirby draws Silver Surfer #18, in an attempt to save the book from cancellation with a new direction. Kirby also draws the “Janus” story intended for FF #102, but Stan rejects the entire story—it was eventually published in FF #108, after Jack had moved to DC Comics. Also this month, Chamber of Darkness #4 is published, with “The Monster” scripted by Kirby. It originally features Kirby and Lee in cameos, but Stan makes major editorial changes that require extensive redrawing by Kirby.

[to be continued next issue]

Gallery 2

Black Panther

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debuts, it’s no wonder he didn’t make many reappearances right away. Marvel even changed the Black Panther’s name to the Black Leopard briefly in the early 1970s, but it didn’t stick. But here’s some interesting Panther artwork by King Kirby of the Jungle: (top right) The original, unused version of FF #52’s cover, which showed the character’s skin color, but also looked an awful lot like Batman. (above) Unused FF #52 pencils. (right) Jack’s original concept drawing of the Panther.

(above) Jack’s original watercolor concept presentation for the Coal Tiger, later renamed Black Panther. (right) A 1980s animation concept for a very similar looking Black Tiger.

(above and below left) These three unused Fantastic Four pages are from an unused Black Panther sequence, and were first published as part of the 1970 Marvelmania Portfolio.

(above) The front cover of this early New York Comicon program book featured unused Kirby pencils from Fantastic Four #52 (July 1966).

Original cover pencils for Jan. 1977’s Black Panther #1. A note atop says “Black Panther #25 - Jan. — Sept. Schedule”, making it appear as if it was originally going to continue the numbering of Jungle Action, which it replaced.

NUTZ & BOLTZ

Novel Graphics, Part One by John Morrow

veryone rightfully hails the “Galactus Trilogy” (Fantastic Four #48-50) as the highwater mark of Lee & Kirby’s run on the FF, due largely to the introduction of the Silver Surfer to the Marvel mythos of the 1960s. Stan is on the record as saying that, while he and Jack had discussed the concept of Galactus prior to Jack putting pencil to bristol board on FF #48, when those pages came into the office for dialoguing, Stan discovered a new character he wasn’t expecting: A shiny man flying through space on a surfboard, which Jack dubbed “The Surfer” in his margin notes. With the addition of the word “Silver” by Stan, the character quickly became one of the most talked-about creations of the 1960s, and a personal favorite of Stan’s. But outside of the pages of Fantastic Four, Jack had just three opportunities to utilize the character in the 1960s. The first was in FF Special #5’s short Surfer/Quasimodo back-up story. The second was a parody called “The Silver Burper” in August 1967’s Not Brand Echh #1. And the final was after an unsuccessful run by Stan and John Buscema on the Surfer’s solo title, when Stan decided to try to jumpstart the book with a new direction in #18, bringing Kirby on for the art on what would be the final issue. Cut to 1976. Jack, after leaving Marvel in 1970, had recently returned to the company, but disappointed many fans by refusing to work on the FF. But behind the scenes, there was talk of a live action Silver Surfer film being developed, and the opportunity arose for Lee and Kirby to work together again on a Silver Surfer Graphic Novel. Stan took a trip from New York to Thousand Oaks, California for an in-person conference about the book’s direction with Jack, and then Jack mailed in the first batch of 20 pages on January 24, 1977, with a second stack sent on March 14, and a promise of more to come soon.

For the 2011 TwoMorrows book The Stan Lee Universe, Danny Fingeroth traveled to the University of Wyoming’s American Heritage Center, spending a week rummaging through the personal archives that Stan had donated to the university. Included was a healthy section of materials from the first 20 pages of the Silver Surfer Graphic Novel, with letters from Jack to Stan about the project, Jack’s typewritten notes (in lieu of the margin notes he put on pages in the 1960s), plus Stan’s typewritten script pages, and copies of Jack’s pencil art marked up with notations by Stan. In The Stan Lee Universe, we presented the materials from pages 1, 2, 11, 14, and 15, as well as Jack’s letters to Stan explaining his motivations behind his penciling choices. Here we have pages 3-8, and we’ll show more pages in next issue’s “Jack Kirby: Writer” theme issue of the Kirby Collector. On the following pages, the top notes are Jack’s, the bottom are Stan’s script. H

Panel descriptions for Silver Surfer Graphic Novel are from the Stan Lee Collection, box #55, folders 2 & 4, American Heritage Center, University of Wyoming. Photocopies of pencil art with balloon placements and script for the Silver Surfer Graphic Novel are from the Stan Lee Collection, box #55, folder #1.

Tribute

2012 Kirby Tribute Panel Transcribed by Steven Tice, and edited by John Morrow • Photos by Chris Ng

(below) Here’s the original art for the cover of Tales To Astonish #101 (March 1968), officially credited as Kirby/Shores/ Marie Severin/Giacoia. All the background figures look to be Kirby, and we’re betting this was originally an unused Thor cover, and the Hulk figure is a paste-up. (next page) This issue’s cover inks by Mike Royer.

Held Sunday, July 15, 2012 at Comic-Con International: San Diego. Moderated by Mark Evanier, and featuring Stan Goldberg, Charles Hatfield, Paul Dini, and Paul Levine. [Due to microphone issues, some of Stan Goldberg’s comments were inaudible, and were edited out.] MARK EVANIER: Good morning. Let the record show that this is the Jack Kirby Tribute Panel. I am Mark Evanier, and we are in a larger room with a little more time because of the fine turnout we’ve had the last few of these. [applause] If we keep this up, we will have Hall H and the entire Saturday. [laughter] This is, I think, my tenth panel of the convention. I’ve got five today, and this is the one I look forward to the most because I spend a lot of the convention talking about Jack, and it’s nice to just talk only about Jack and not have him be an Mark Evanier aside, to just focus on him for a while. And I got into an interesting discussion yesterday when we were down at the Kirby Museum booth. You have all visited, I’m sure, the Kirby Museum, [and] the TwoMorrows booth. They’re about three steps from each other. At either booth, you’ll find many treasures about Jack and people who are enthusiastic about him. We got into a little discussion with Charles [Hatfield] here, and with Tom Kraft, whom I see is here somewhere. Tom’s over there, and Arlen Schumer, who is over there. I almost introduced him to someone last night as Arlen Specter. [laughter] I’m sure this is not the first time this mistake has been made. ARLEN SCHUMER: He’s the only other Arlen that I know. EVANIER: Okay. To keep it clear, for those of you, so you’ll remember this: Arlen Specter is the man with the single bullet theory of the Kennedy assassination. Arlen Schumer is the man with the Auteur Theory of Comics. All right? [laughter] You’ve got the difference on that? Fine. SCHUMER: The single panel theory. EVANIER: That’s right. [laughter] And we started talking about—the discussion was keyed off a discussion of Mike Royer’s lettering, which we should’ve actually had in this room one of the years Mike was on this panel. [laughter] I love Mike Royer. I learned to letter from Mike Royer, and I thought he was one of the greatest letterers of all time. I always appreciate that there are people who have different opinions about inkers, or their favorite Kirby books, their favorite Kirby colorists—although we can all agree that nobody ever colored Jack’s work better than Mr. Stan Goldberg. [applause] I hope this doesn’t get too sprawled, here. You can look at this from a couple of different viewpoints, if you’re discussing Mike’s, anyway. With Mike Royer, who lettered for Jack, one aspect is just looking at the work and evaluating it. You know, some people say, “Well, I like Sam Rosen better,” or, “I like—”. SCHUMER: Simek! EVANIER: I’m talking about letterers. SCHUMER: Simek!

EVANIER: Oh, Simek! I thought you said “Sinnott”. I’m sorry. Artie Arlen Schumer Simek. Anyway, it’s just a subjective thing. Another thing is, and I want to ask Charles to talk about this. This is Charles Hatfield, the author of Hand of Fire, a fine book about Jack. [applause] Friday night, it won an Eisner Award. [applause] Although I’ve got to tell you, it’s kind of easy. I’ve won an Eisner 80

Award every time I’ve written about Jack. [laughter] But there is the question of, when did you discover Jack? Those people who first came to his work on something like Kamandi, to them that’s Kirby art. The stuff before is Jack doing what he shouldn’t be doing, or, “That’s not the way it’s supposed to look. It’s supposed to look like this.” And there’s something very valid to that. A third approach that you look at sometimes in this case, which I am burdened with, is practicality. When Mike was lettering Jack’s work on the New Gods books— it’s a question of alternatives. Well, if Mike hadn’t lettered it, who would have? I don’t think there was anyone else. There was no one else in Southern California. There was no one else in Los Angeles that we could possibly have gotten. If there was somebody, we didn’t know who they were and therefore could not find them. So the alternative at that point would have been to send the work to New York for lettering, and if you hand it to the people in the DC production office, who already didn’t like the way Jack drew, and say, “Here, you guys find a letterer and then send it back to us unretouched and unmolested”; that wasn’t practical, either. It’s very simple when you look at a comic to say, “Oh, this should have been inked by Joe Sinnott and it should have been colored by Stan Goldberg.” You can’t always get those people. They’re not always available. You can’t always get your first choice. It’s like a variation of what Donald Rumsfeld said, “You go to war with the army you have.” You go to press with the artists and writers you have. You can’t magically make Wally Wood appear at any place you want, you know. You deal with the realities. And I think it was wonderful that Mike Royer was as good as he was, and as fast as he was, and available at that moment. And I think you would have liked the alterna-

tive a lot less. If you don’t like Mike’s lettering, that’s fine. Mike would be the first guy to tell you that he loved other people’s lettering more than his own. But there’s different aspects to this. Now, what this gets to—I’m rambling here, but I wanted to do a little editorial about something. I want to take you back for a minute, to the 1980s; most of you remember the fight at Marvel over Jack’s original art being returned. Do I have to remind people what that was all about? I was in a very odd position. This war was going on, people were hurling invective back and forth at Marvel employees, and some of them were yelling at Jack and saying nasty things, and everybody was insulting everybody else. And a certain amount of that, to be honest, was people who really didn’t care that much about Jack, but they had grievances against Marvel Comics, or certain people at Marvel Comics, and they saw a chance to grab some moral high ground and fling mud from a very tall place. There were also those of us who had genuine issues relating not just to Jack, but to the treatment of creators as a whole. Jack was just the example of… if you don’t treat Jack right, who are they going to treat right? Somebody who maybe is more successful for them and creates multi-million dollar properties? So there was a lot of angst going on in fanzines and convention panels and such, and fortunately we did not have the Internet then to ramp this up ten times. But I would look at this, and I was in this odd position. When the battle started, I went to the attorney who was representing Jack at the time, a man named Steven Rohde, now a very prestigious attorney in the civil rights/free speech area. He’s won a lot of major battles to block censorship. He’s an official of the ACLU. And that’s when I met Paul Levine, who was—this is the Kirby family attorney, Mr. Paul S. Levine,

they were feeding me inside information and such. So I got a very good picture of what was going on on both sides, and I don’t want to go into too much of what that was, but I came to the conclusion that one of the problems was that we had this moment where everybody at Marvel knew that they were in the wrong, and they couldn’t budge off their position, because large companies are sometimes like elephants. Once they sit down, they have a great deal of trouble getting up again, and moving. And I looked at all this, and I looked at the fanzines, I looked at the panel discussions at conventions, and I would see someone say, “Here’s why Jack Kirby is in the wrong,” or, “Here’s why Jack Kirby is in the right.” And they would then explain a reason which had nothing to do with anything in the case, nothing to do with anything being claimed by either side, nothing to do with the correspondence. They would claim discussions that had never occurred, they would claim, “Oh, I saw a letter where Jack’s attorneys said that they wanted Stan to shave his beard off and send it to them,” or whatever it was. [laughter] Nothing that ever happened. Now, one of my favorite political writers is a man named Jack Germond, and he once wrote, “The problem with TV news in this world is that we are not allowed to say, ‘I don’t know.’ We have to say something even when we don’t know.” And I think this is what is wrong—just an aside—with cable news these days. They frequently don’t know, but they have to say something, so they make up something, or they expand a little rumor into something that resembles a real news item. And I discovered that most of the people commenting on the Kirby case did not know. They were not necessarily bad people—they may have been misinformed, they thought they had information they didn’t have—but that most of what was appearing in print, most of what was being said at convention panels, was people who did not know. Now, more recently we’ve had lawsuits, one involving Jack, one involving the family of Jerry Siegel, and some other ones floating around where people are taking on big corporations and threatening, or in some cases succeeding, in wresting copyrights away from them. And I go on the Internet now, and we have an added factor. We have anonymity. We have people who can claim this stuff and don’t have to sign their name to it. As a general rule of thumb, when you go on the Internet and you read someone say they’re going to give their analysis of the Kirby case, or their analysis of the Siegel and Shuster case, or whatever those cases are, if they don’t have a first and a last name, they’re full of sh*t. [some laughter and applause] Yet they claim—this isn’t honest people, now. If they also say, “I’m an attorney,” they are full of sh*t and lying. [laughter] Or they’re an attorney who specializes in pet licenses or something like that and they think they’re entitled now to comment on a copyright case. The statements that are signed with actual first and last names, whether they’re even real first or last names, are sometimes kind of accurate, or sometimes at least based on actually reading transcripts, or reading depositions, or understanding the law, or they have something to do with what is being talked about. Sometimes. But the disinformation that is going out here is… it’s birtherism. Whatever your political stripes are, you can look on the Internet and find people you think don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. I see them all the time. And they’re not necessarily bad people. Sometimes they’re really enthusiastic. Sometimes they’re on the right side for the wrong reasons. They’re offering bogus evidence on behalf of a solid case. And I’m not allowed to jump into this because I’m a witness on a lot of these things, and I don’t want to get into that. I don’t have the time, also, to keep refuting all these stupid things. But if you are interested in the truth, don’t listen to this stuff. And if you are interested in helping, help us combat this. There is a reporter who is covering some of these trials, a guy who’s doing a piece about this, who claims he has solid proof that people have been hired to go on the Internet and post messages— the attorneys for the other side have hired people to go online and

While he didn’t return to the series interiors, Kirby did produce new covers for Fantastic Four #164, 167, 171-177, 180-181, 190, and #200 in the 1970s. Issue #171 is shown above.

ladies and gentlemen. [applause] In the interest of full disclosure, he is also my attorney. By great coincidence, when I needed someone to negotiate a deal with a French animation studio, I happened to find that the guy I wanted to have be my attorney spoke French. PAUL LEVINE: [says something in French] [laughter] EVANIER: But I went to Steve Rohde and said, “What do you want me to do, here? Do you want me to go out and get Molotov cocktails and lob them at people? What do you want me to do?” He said, “No, no. Don’t become a militant on this. I need you too much to be a liaison.” I was on good terms with a lot of people at Marvel. I had been working on Groo at that moment, or was just about to start doing Groo with them. I got along with a lot of folks at Marvel. I got along with Stan. I was at one point the only human being alive who could talk on a personal basis with both Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. And he said, “Stay out of the battle. Be my conduit.” I had a few people within Paul Levine Marvel who were acting like I was Bob Woodward, and they were Deep Throat, meeting in parking garages and feeding me information. I can give you the names of two of them because they’ve both passed away. One was a man named Mark Gruenwald, and the other was a lady named Carol Kalish, who was the head of Marvel’s Direct Sales Department at the time, and 82

post messages to try and sway public opinion. I don’t necessarily think that’s necessary. I don’t think it’s necessary to spend that money to get stupid messages on the Internet. [chuckling] But I can’t say for sure that doesn’t happen, because some of the messages are so egregiously stating a phony company line or a phony case, that it’s possible. At some point all of this will get chronicled and written about properly and you’ll know what actually is happening, to the extent anyone can, because these are very complicated issues. But I wanted to say here, just because we have the intelligentsia of the Kirby family here: don’t believe everything you read, don’t believe everything you hear, and don’t believe anything that’s signed by someone who doesn’t have the guts to sign a real name to it. That is my editorial for today. Thank you. [applause] Let me introduce also, one of my best friends, one of the best writers in comics, Mr. Paul Dini is here. [applause] The other day in the mail they finally sent me a copy of the Spirit World book. I was astounded—not that it was coming out, I wrote the Foreword for it. I looked at that thing, and I just went, “Wow, this is the book that told us was the biggest flop in history, and they were ashamed they published it, and oh, what a mistake it was to do this, and now it’s out in hardcover.” [chuckling] Jack was right again. Everything Jack did that can be reprinted, is being reprinted, as you can see. Whatever isn’t out now will be out next year or the year after. There may be a few little things, because of licensing issues, that don’t come out. I wouldn’t be surprised if we even saw those. We have Kirbys in the room. Hi, Tracy! Hi, Barbara! This is Barbara and Tracy Kirby. [applause] Is Steve Sherman here? Steve

Sherman’s over there. [applause] Are you amazed as I that they reprinted Spirit World?

EVANIER: Whatever they found, they actually did a very nice job of it. I thought that was one of the better reprints they’ve done. Steve is a really good friend of mine. And one of the reasons I like having Steve around here is that frequently when I tell people what went on with Jack and DC during that period, they give me that Springtime For Hitler look, [laughter] and they can’t believe it; they go, “You are making this up.” But I have Steve here to verify everything. SHERMAN: It’s all true! [laughter] EVANIER: He can tell you I have a very good memory for this stuff. But do you know what I love about Spirit World, Steve? Your mother’s in it. There’s a picture early on in the book of a woman sitting behind the wheel of a car being horrified, and people think it’s Roz, but it’s Steve’s mother.

SHERMAN: In the driveway! That’s how big the budget was. [laughter]

This Hulk image from the 1979 Marvel Comics Calendar (released after Jack left the company for good) was drawn in 1977, and is Jack’s last published Marvel work. A note on it says Joe Sinnott’s inks were due 1/17/77. 83

EVANIER: That’s right. And we shot that fumetti thing in there, and the really rotten text piece. I recall you writing most of that. [laughter] I couldn’t have written something that stupid. [laughter] No, I probably wrote more than my share of the stupid lines. But that was a book [where] Jack was ahead of his time. That was not the book he wanted to do. He wanted to do it much more deluxe, fancy, expensive. He had a bigger vision than DC did of this project, and as too often happens in life, they dumbed it down, and cheapened it up, and made it cheaper paper, and cheaper budgets, and no color. The weird thing about that book was, Jack kept saying, “You’ve got to print it in color.” And they kept saying, “No, no, we’re gonna print it in black-andwhite.” And Jack kept saying, “Don’t even publish it if you’re going to do it in black-and-white. Do it in color!” So they said, “Well, we’re going to publish it in black-and-white, but Jack wants color, so we’ll put it in blueand-white. We’ll give him one color.” [laughter] And when he got the makeready of it, the sample of that, and saw the blue ink, he got the Springtime for Hitler look. [laughter] That’s not what he had in mind.

STEVE SHERMAN: Yeah. I was amazed that they could even find silver prints to print from.

done. If he could magically go back to his old pencils and bring in Mike Royer or Joe Sinnott, Jack would have said, “No, no. It’s historically accurate. That’s the way the book came out. That’s the way we did it. Let’s do the next book better.” That was his attitude. But, I was impressed as hell that Spirit World came out; I’m sure they’ll do In the Days of the Mob one of these days. They’ll do everything they’ve got nailed down, and then once they’ve done it all—get ready for this, folks—they’ll find a way to reprint it again and make you buy it again. [laughter] There’ll be more deluxe versions. Maybe next time they publish Spirit World, they’ll say, “Here’s the color version. You’ve gotta buy this. You already have the other one.” And it just gladdens my heart to see all this stuff that was not valued properly at the time, now costing $49.95. Especially since I don’t have to pay it. [chuckling] Let’s go over Kirby announcements that people may have here, or Kirbyrelated projects. John, what have you got coming up that people should know about?

JOHN MORROW: We have the brand new issue of the Jack Kirby Collector, which has shrunk in size, but expanded in page count and added a color section—due largely to the fact that the post office keeps raising postage rates on oversized tabloid pieces, and we didn’t want to jack up subscription rates double. But we have these down at Booth 1301 if anyone wants to come check it out. Other than that, just moving ahead with our next few issues. EVANIER: Thank you. [applause] Arlen, do you want to talk for a minute about your project? SCHUMER: Sure. In conjunction with John Morrow and Rand Hoppe of the Jack Kirby Museum, we’ve worked on the Auteur Theory of Comics, which essentially lays out the idea that the artist, when working with another Full-page splash from What If? #11 (Oct. 1978), featuring the Marvel Bullpen as the FF, with Jack as the Thing. writer in comics—obviously vis-à-vis Kirby and Stan Lee—that it is the artist who is the auteur, the author of the SHERMAN: Do you remember what he said? At the same time comic-book-reading experience. So we have these sixteen pages that [Marvel] had Hulk toilet paper, which was printed in blue. And he I wrote and designed, and it’s for sale saw that and he said, “Oh, it’s toilet paper.” [laughter] to benefit the Kirby Museum down at Rand Hoppe’s booth, so if you come EVANIER: And now it’s a hardcover for, how much is the book? down today, we’ll be selling these, and RAND HOPPE: $40. all profits go towards eventually opening up a real museum. Right now the AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is it fully colored? Kirby Museum is online, but the idea EVANIER: No, no, it’s blue ink. Actually, I don’t blame them for is to raise money to open up a real replicating the old book. If Jack wanted reprints done, he didn’t museum in the Lower East Side, where want his work tampered with, and once it was published, it was Jacob Kurtzberg—Jack Kirby, I Rand Hoppe 84

mean—was raised. That’s the idea. So come and see us all day long, and thank you very much. [applause]

CHARLES HATFIELD: Well, we all have stories that we can tell ourselves about our past, I think, and stories are made of a memory but compounded with fiction, I suppose. When we don’t mean to make a fiction of our lives, we often do, so for the longest time the story I was telling myself about my discovery of Jack’s work had to do with being ten years old and buying Kamandi #32 off the stands, which was a late issue of Jack’s run. It was a double-sized issue that hooked me on that comic, and I was very keen to tell that story because my memories of that particular comic book series were very vivid. And so, when I started trying to write about Jack in my late twenties the better part of twenty years ago, that was a memory I was keen to tell. But when I stopped to think about it, I realized there’d already been a lot of Kirby prior to that point. It had been around. My brother Scott, who in later years sometimes went by the name “Scott Free,” had introduced me to a lot of comics work. By that age I had already read All in Color for a Dime. I think I had read Jim Steranko’s two-volume History of Comics, with his extensive chapter on Captain America and on Jack, so I probably had at least an obscure sense that he was some sort of living legend at that point. And there was a text feature, I think, in Kamandi #32 that got that point across, as well. So I had memories of meeting, let’s say, Jack’s mid-Sixties Fantastic Four stuff prior to that, probably in Marvel’s Greatest Comics, or one of the Marvel reprint projects. So I can’t actually remember a time when I wasn’t reading him. I think what happened when I was ten is I became obsessed with him. That’s the difference, I became obsessed in spending what allowance money my parents would give me buying Jack’s comics every week. So I was one of those people who entered circa 1975, as far as your full-on obsession goes. I’m an English professor, I’m a teacher, teaching is Job One. I’ve written a previous book about alternative comics and the kind of comics that were, frankly, easier for me to get to teach in an English course in college, of comics of R. Crumb and from the post-Maus generation. All fine comics, but I still had within me a desire to sort of have an arm-wrestling match between the professorial me and the ten-year-old me, and see if we could make that work as an academic text. So I started trying to repurpose some of the things I had written for John’s magazine, the Jack Kirby Collector, and trying to go forward from there. It was about six years ago, maybe, I was at a conference when my publisher, University Press of Mississippi, announced a new series of books called Great Comics Artists. And there had been a lot of books in that series, books about Crumb, about Tezuka, about Garry Trudeau, about Mort Walker. There’s been all kinds of books in that series. I was at a conference when that series was announced, and my good friend Gene from graduate school leaned over to me and said, “If you don’t write a Kirby book for that series, you’re insane.” And I hadn’t even thought about it. I hadn’t really thought consciously, or dared to think about what it would be to try to write a book in “academic-ese,” let’s say, but still infused with these lifelong feelings that I had, this enthusiasm about Kirby. So I said, “Okay, I’ll send the Charles Hatfield

EVANIER: Rand, do you want to say anything about the museum? HOPPE: Sure. Well, as Arlen said, we’re raising money. We’re planning to open up on the Lower East Side for three Tom Kraft months, so we’re raising money right now to take care of rent and insurance and issues like that. And that’s our main project right now, so if you come down to the booth, we could certainly use your support. We have a Mother Box down there that will gladly accept your donation. [laughter] We set up a table at the MOCCA Art Fest back in April, and we had the pleasure of getting an article placed in the Wall Street Journal about Jack. Neal Kirby’s had some pieces in the LA Times to get the story of Jack out in the mainstream press. That’s it. Come on down to the booth. [applause] EVANIER: How many people in this room now carry a Mother Box? [holds up iPhone, laughter, applause] There he was, again. Does anyone else have any Kirby-related announcement to make? TOM KRAFT: Rand and I have been working on the digital archive for Jack Kirby. We’re scanning all of his work, as much as we can, for future generations to enjoy and preserve. We’re now at over 2200 scans, and if you have any Kirby art that you’d like to have added to the archive, or scanned into the archive, please stop by Booth 5520. Thank you. [applause]

EVANIER: And if there are no further announcements, I’m going to segue to talking to our panel, here. I’m going to save Stan for a minute and go over to Charles. Charles is the author of this book Hand of Fire: The Comics Art of Jack Kirby, which I mentioned won an Eisner

Animation model drawing from Kirby’s tenure on the Thing cartoon series. 85

the other night. Charles, tell us a little about why you did this book.

publisher a pitch,” and I did. I think the pitch in essence was to explain, okay, why did Jack Kirby melt my brain [laughter] when I was ten years old? Because there was such joy, and terror, and just this sense of being flabbergasted about Jack’s work, often. One example, when I was a kid I bought OMAC #1, and here was this cover with a disembodied female doll figure in a box being hurled at the reader by a guy in blue tights and with a Mohawk [chuckling], and it said on the cover, “Are you ready for the world that’s coming?” And when you’re ten years old and you see this, you go, “Hell, no!” [laughter] “But, I have to buy it!” Right? That’s the thing. And it occurred to me after writing about other comics and teaching a lot of other comics that there was only a hair’s breadth difference, if any, between OMAC #1 and, let’s say, some issue of Skull comics, or

some underground comic by Jack Jackson. It was that weird, it was that inspiring, it was that, “Ah! I just stuck my finger in a socket! Something’s happening to me!” So I really wanted to try to explain that for my fellow lit people and art historical people and so on in the terms that I’ve learned how to use. So that’s how my book came about, but it really goes back to just going to the BX every week— my family was an Air Force family, it was the base exchange—and thinking, “Is there any Kirby for me this week?” Ah! “The Dingbats of Danger Street.” Ah! “The Eternals #1.” Ah! It’s that experience. I was on an unholy kind of tear, a spell for about three years as a kid, buying those Kirby comics. And the only comics convention I went to as a kid was basically a flea market, a room where I paid an unheard of three dollars and fifty cents for New Gods #1, which, for me, was unheard of at the time. And I kept that, and when I was 20 or 21 and started reading comics again after a very long dry spell, I went back to get all the rest and read them in a kind of blind fit, like, “Wow, okay.” And I have basically been on that tear since. [applause]

EVANIER: A premise of academic writing is that the person writing the book is supposed to learn as much as the person reading the book. As you were writing the book, did you suddenly discover new things about your interest in Kirby? You know the question I’m asking. What was the startling revelation you found in the text of this book?

More What If? #11 pencils; Jack routinely referred to Stan Lee in his dialogue as “Stanley”, which was edited to just “Stan” by Roy Thomas; one of only a few minor edits on the story. 86

HATFIELD: It’s always a write-to-learn process, writing to learn, and, as my family can testify, that takes me a long time. I was on that book for about six years or so. When I was about halfway through it, I started to become more and more preoccupied with the question, “Why do Kirby’s stories and concepts mean so much more to me when he does them, than when anyone else does?” Why do they mean more to me in comics than they do in movies, and why do they mean more to me in Jack Kirby’s comics than they do in anyone else’s comics? And even wonderful comics like Walt Simonson’s fabled run on Thor—it’s a terrific comic, but why do I always want to go back to Kirby and reread that more often? And I got into thinking about the act of generating stories through drawing. I know that Jack generated stories in a lot of ways. He generated them in his head, he generated them through conversation. He sometimes generated them in words. But I was struck by the fact that he would work with minimal or few written notes, often, creating classic comic book story after story. And so I hit upon this idea of cartooning as narrative drawing. What made that different from illustration? What made it different from just following a script, which is emphatically not the way, I guess, Jack preferred to work, following someone else’s script verbatim—what made that different? And so I thought, as

an English prof, I ended up thinking a lot more about art and making marks, you know, [makes scratching noises] on paper. I started thinking a lot more about that, and that was a frontier for me. So I learned a hell of a lot about that, I think, or at least how to express my confusion and incomprehension when I look at a Jack Kirby page, as in how does he do it, why does that move me, and why does it look the way it looks? It looks weird—you know, good weird, but it looks weird. So I was trying to undomesticate the Kirby style and make it Charles’ book; highly recommended! weird again for me, and that’s one of the things I learned to talk about while working on the book.

that bedeviled him as a cartoonist, or one of the things he worked with, was his tendency not to start again, or wipe out, or cut-andpaste, but to spend pages, or panel after panel, explaining the implications of some panel he’d thrown in and he’d come to wish he almost hadn’t drawn. But instead of undoing it or cutting it out, razoring it out and making things different, he would expand and refine the stories: “Why did I put that in there? Ah!” And then he would kind of work around the problem, right? And I have the feeling that that’s something that a lot of narrative cartoonists do, and it certainly sounds like Jack was doing it, even when he had grand plans. EVANIER: Charles is an example of someone—correct me if I’m wrong—whose favorite Kirby work was basically the first Kirby work he knew, Kamandi. It’s the one that really excited you, right? HATFIELD: [hesitantly] Yyyyyeah... EVANIER: Okay. I didn’t mean the first one you actually ever read, the first one you ever really got into. Right? I mean, once you fell in love with that, that was Kirby work to you. HATFIELD: Yeah. I would not go back and say that those were what I think are the best of Kirby now, although there are a handful of issues of Kamandi that I think are. Particularly the first issues at that time—and some of the steam sometimes seemed to go out of it later, but Demon #1, OMAC #1, certain issues of Kamandi I think still are among the best. And then there are others I read later, or reread later, maybe, as a grown-up, that I think are in that list of great ones.

EVANIER: Jack not only didn’t like following a storyline, he sometimes didn’t even like following what he thought of five minutes ago. [chuckling] He would jump around from page to page and change his mind. Steve will nod, as I said, to how Jack would tell us the plot of the Mister Miracle he was about to do, sit down, and do a completely different story. We would go, “Wow, Jack, that sounds great,” which was about the extent of our contribution to those comics. And he would then sit around and he would do something different. And we would say to him afterward, “That’s great, Jack, but why didn’t you do that scene you told us about so-and-so?” And he would say, “It’s in there.” [laughter] We would go, “No, it isn’t.” And he’d go, “Oh. Well, I’ll use that someplace else.” [laughter] I never claimed that I understood everything about Jack, or a majority, but I understood a little more about him a few years after my main association with him, when I got involved in improv comedy teaching for a while. Some of you saw [the] Quickdraw [Panel] yesterday. In improv comedy, one of the things you learn is to go with what’s there. The first rule of improv, when you’re in a scene, is “No Denial.” If you walk into a scene with somebody else and they say, “You just came from the doctor,” you don’t say, “No, I didn’t come from the doctor. I was getting a haircut.” Once something is established, you then say, “Okay, that’s in this scene, I now have to build on it. I have to use that.” So now that’s established, and the phrase is, “Yes, but...”. You agree with it, and then you add additional information to clarify the scene and add onto it. If you want to see an example of that in action sometimes, watch Stephen Colbert interviewing a guest, which is the only real-time improv that’s ever been done in television, in genuine improv rules. The guest will say something, and Stephen Colbert will in fact say, “Yes, but...” and he will build on it instead of denying what they say. And Jack would take something, whatever you gave him, and he would build on it, he would add onto it. Anyway, it’s your time to talk, here. Tell me a couple of things about that.

EVANIER: How many people here would say that their favorite Kirby work was more or less their first one? [audience raises hands] About half the room, okay. Paul, what was yours? PAUL DINI: Well, I had been aware of Jack’s work for a while growing up, but I never really put a name to it. To me, it was kind of like the Marvel house style, the big, dramatic look of the characters, because I was more of a DC reader and a funny animal comics reader. I was going through an old bookstore in Monterey, California, when I came upon a pile of discarded comics that were just going for, like, fifty cents each. It was the entire middle run of the Fantastic Four. It was, like, Fantastic Four #45 through #60. I bought them all, and I took them back to my school—I was going to boarding school at the time. And I sat down— I mean, they had ratty covers on them, they had been folded up. I guess that’s why they were so cheap and not sold through a comic book store. And I read them all and I just thought, “This stuff is amazing.” You know, you grow up and you see action figures and dolls and say, “I know who Dr. Doom is a little bit, and I know who Wyatt Wingfoot and some of the supporting characters are.” And I sat down and I devoured them all, and I said, “This is really great storytelling, and it goes from issue to issue, and then…” The Marvel writing style at that time, whether it was Stan or Jack or some sort of collaboration, was they would put little panels to foreshadow what was going to happen a few issues down the road, and it was a process of reading the Silver Surfer stories and then going back and flipping through them and picking up, “Oh, you left this clue here, and now it’s paying off here,” and I was just captivated by it. That really turned me at that point from, solely, the DC guy into, like, “Give me more Marvel comics, because I want to see if they’re all this good.” By that point Jack was not working for Marvel, but he was on his way back, within a few months, to do things like Machine Man, Devil Dinosaur, and take over Captain America again. So I remember coming to my first San Diego Con, which was 1975, which is where they Paul Dini announced that Jack was on his way

HATFIELD: One of the things that puzzles me about the Fourth World comics, the New Gods and its sister titles, is that Jack apparently had these plans in motion, character designs and visions, kind of bubbling in his head for quite a long time prior to the launch of those comics, and so that seems like a relatively rare case of him conceiving something way ahead of time. Yet, when he finally got to doing it, my impression is it was still a time to slap leather and basically improvise, as Mark said. So even when he had this kind of advance planning, the rhythm of it from month to month was… he was a rocket on the end of a tether, if any tether at all. I heard Jaime Hernandez say, in a Love and Rockets anniversary panel yesterday, that one of the things 87

stories, and even though Superman had sort of a tangential relationship to Apokolips through the Jimmy Olsen series, we thought, “Now’s the time to really bring in Darkseid as a major force, so let’s kind of go in and build on what Jack put out there and use that as a major source of Superman inspiration.” So we looked at places where it felt organic to bring in those characters, and we really had a lot of fun with that, with developing Apokolips, Darkseid, the Female Furies, all those characters. It was just like a treasure trove of being able to put all those characters in there. Unfortunately, we never really got to see what Jack thought of that or even utilize his inspiration for that, because I think it would have been great— Superman I think we started working on in ’95, ’96. Jack passed away in ’94, and I think a lot of that was started as sort of a tribute to him, and then the more we developed those characters, the more we realized we had some great inspiration in those characters. Had he been with us a little longer, it would have been fun to have brought him in to the studio and say, “What do you think, or maybe you have some ideas? Do you want to spitball some stories or we’ll come up with something?” That was sort of a great regret of ours, the deeper we got into his DC creations.

EVANIER: Thank you, Paul. I want to segue here—we’ll talk to these gentlemen more, but I want to see if I can bring Stan Goldberg into this conversation. Stan’s one of my favorite people in comics, and I want to say a little bit about him, because I don’t think people fully realize how much this man contributed to comics history. He was the lead artist at Archie Comics for years and years. [scattered applause] Give me a rough number; how many issues of Archie comics have you drawn in your lifetime, Stan? Just give me a number, an approximate number.

One of Paul Dini’s inspirations for his Superman animated series was Kirby’s work on Jimmy Olsen, such as this page (in pencil) from issue #148 (April 1972). Check out Jack’s cool stylized “S” symbol on the Superman figure in panel 2, which DC had Murphy Anderson redraw, along with the Superman faces, and compare them to the published versions.

back, and there was a big current of excitement going through all the panels that Kirby was coming back to Marvel, and I couldn’t wait to see it again.

STAN GOLDBERG: I finished one story, and there were two more stories then, and I got over to my desk and I had to start right up. I found a book recently that said I did my first story in 1969. I thought it was 1979, because I know I went back to Marvel when Stan called me back to do some work for him in the seventies. But ’69 was my first story, and would you believe it was a Bob Bolling pencil job that I inked? [Audio is illegible, as Stan moves closer to the microphone, to applause.] EVANIER: Just tell me, how many pages of Archie did you draw in your career, roughly?

GOLDBERG: I think between five hundred to nine hundred a year over forty years. [applause] There was a lot of other stuff. Of course, you all recognize the Archie books, but I did a ton of stuff in advertising illustration. That’s how I ended my career—well, not quite ended it, but those years at Marvel, I was drawing in the Pop Art style. It was Roy Lichtenstein, like we all know and love. And even though he copied a lot of us and he stole my work—he took my Millie the Model and created his ten million dollar painting [laughter]—I loved him, and he was great. He was smart enough to do that. I wasn’t smart enough.

EVANIER: Paul, talk a little bit about the inspiration of Jack in the cartoon shows that you’ve done. DINI: I worked for Warner Brothers Animation for years, and I was lucky to work with Bruce Timm, Glen Murakami, Shane Glines, and a number of artists who had a tremendous affinity for Jack—not only for his artistic style, but for his storytelling—and one of the things we found ourselves incorporating over and over were nods to the Kirby style of design or storytelling, which started creeping in a little bit in Batman, and then really kind of [came] to the fore in Superman. When we developed Superman, one of the problems with the character is that he is so powerful that it’s hard to get good villains to go against him. You know, you run out of Brainiac and Luthor stories pretty quickly. But then we looked for inspiration to the New Gods

EVANIER: There was a long run on Millie the Model that was signed by Sol Brodsky, or “Solly B.” sometimes, that was actually drawn by Stan, because other publishers he was working for did not want him drawing in that style for other publishers. GOLDBERG: Exactly. If they saw it, they would stop giving me work. 88

EVANIER: Yes. So, when he drew Millie the Model, they put Sol’s name on it.

before he moved out to California, and I’d see him a lot. I’d color all the monster-of-the-month [stories], great pages, a cover and the inside. What was coming up next was just a marvelous thing, and he was always a little different than anybody else. What we’re doing now is soooo great. I’m just thrilled to be up there, and I hear these stories about Jack. Jack was my Stan Goldberg favorite guy. Occasionally he stayed over a while when I was up there bringing some work in or whatever, and we would go out to lunch, with Sol Brodsky, and Jack would regale us with these ideas while we were having some lunch. And we’d laugh about it: “The Lost Cowboys.” [chuckling] And on and on and on. And there were things on his mind, not the sandwich he was eating or whatever, we’d just talk about it. It always was there. And it

GOLDBERG: Yeah. Sol inked it, but I gave him full tight pencils. EVANIER: Now, that alone is impressive, but [you] started what year at Marvel? GOLDBERG: 1949. EVANIER: He started in the coloring department, and eventually he was the coloring department. And during the time that the Marvel books were being born, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Hulk, all those books, who colored most of those comics? GOLDBERG: Well, running the department, you know, one thing I did all of, are the covers. Stan liked to see the covers that I was taking care of, and I was supervising the other three guys, making sure they didn’t color a blue hat, and then the next panel color the hat green, or red. Not that we were going to get the results in the printing, because the printing was quite bad. But I’m just going on to a long answer to a simple question. EVANIER: Between, let’s say 1961 and 1969, when they really started expanding the line out, what percentage of those books that Marvel published did you color?

EVANIER: Tell us your [Kirby] story! [laughter] GOLDBERG: Okay, I knew Jack when he was in New York,

GOLDBERG: This, I’m proud of because of what’s coming out in the movies now. I’ll go back to that in a second, here. All the great movies that are turning up on the big screen and making billions of dollar, the Avengers and FF and Spider-Man, every one of those I did on a freelance basis with Stan. Stan gave me all that stuff to do, and he liked me doing it. I knew what Stan liked; from my early 1950s coloring those books, I knew what he liked, and I gave him what he liked. Still, even then, he would always like to see changes—and rightfully so. He paid me, and I had to draw it, and something I showed him on Monday, he would want us to “change this,” “let’s do that,” and after fourteen rounds of changes came Friday. I brought that same cover back to him, in full-color, and he’d say, “This is what I want.” And I said, “Stan, this is what you saw on Monday.” [laughter] We had a great relationship, and we still do. Just quickly, I gotta say something about Stan. I know this is about Jack, and I’ve got a great Jack Kirby story that I’ve never told before, which I’ll tell in a short while. But having Stan in those twenty years in my career—I’ve said it to him and I’ve said it wherever I’ve spoken—we all have our feelings about Stan, and it was always “Stan Lee Presents,” and that was fine with me. In fact, I kid around with him about that, because I thought his real last name was “Presents.” [laughter, applause] I found something in a house ad in Millie the Model in 1962, a big Millie the Model page, big-sized, and I was doing Mille for a couple years, and we did a special page that said, “These are the two men who bring you Millie the Model,” and I drew Stan at his typewriter and me at my drawing board drawing and writing out the stories. But right on top—this is very unusual, I don’t think this ever existed before or after— it said “S. Lee.” But it didn’t say “Stan Lee,” it said “S. Lee.” So I never approached him with that, but just a little thing that happened, just discovered amongst the piles of stuff in the house. Joe Sinnott’s inks to page 4 of Fantastic Four #5 (July 1962), a book Stan Goldberg undoubtedly colored. 89

Stan. I need to tell you something.” And I said, “What happened? What happened?” And he said, “I just heard that Jack Kirby died.” Frank was an inventor and other things, and he had this shortwave radio, so he picked it up on the radio. And I know that Jack was important to him. But as the years went on, I just thought of Jack, of all the good times, and all his crazy ideas. I say “crazy” because, the more I think about him, he grows bigger and bigger, as I’m thinking about him all the time. [applause] EVANIER: I’m going to guess the following scene took place a couple times in your life. You see Jack and you say to him, “I’ve just colored Thor,” or, “I’ve just colored Fantastic Four. Anything that you want me to change? Anything about it?” And he would say, “Whatever you do is great with me, Stan.” That’s exactly the way he said it, right?

GOLDBERG: I could just see him. I could see him with the cigar, the full head of hair, that Stan [Lee] wanted all the time. [laughter] There was another man whose name is known in the industry, and he was another great artist. I can’t imagine Jack and my dear friend Joe Maneely together in this industry run amok. Those two guys would have taken on the world, and Jack would have been the biggest supporter of Joe Maneely. He was that type of a guy. Jack, he shared a lot of things. He was a wonder his whole life. EVANIER: Jack had a casual friendship with Joe Maneely at the office. Joe Maneely died in a train accident at the age of 32, was it? And Jack believed—and I have no idea how much validity it has—he would say, “Comics killed Joe Maneely.” Because Joe Maneely was working night and day, never sleeping, and Jack believed, rightly or wrongly, that wandering like a zombie as he was doing with no sleep is what caused the accident. That may not be the case, but for years after when Jack would talk to other professionals, he would give them what he called the Joe Maneely Warning. “Don’t do that.” Because by dying, Joe had done the thing which Jack thought was the absolute worst thing in the world for a man to do, which was to Compare panel 5 of this page from Journey Into Mystery #88 (Jan. 1963) to the published leave your family in financial trouble. He was a comic, and you’ll see it was completely redrawn, with new art pasted over Jack’s original. Depression era kid, and there was nothing worse than a man who didn’t provide for his family and leave was just so much fun getting to know him. He was just a little differthem comfortably when he was gone. When I first met Wally Wood, ent, and as the years go on, I find him to be a lot different. And I he would say, “Every time I talked to Jack, I heard the Joe Maneely never get tired of working on his stuff. Warning.” And Wally was a guy who worked like mad, around the Now, the story. We spend the winters in an old town high in the clock, for three or four days, frequently using medicinal stimulants to mountains of Mexico. We were down there, and I found another keep himself up. And Jack, of course, did not follow the Joe Maneely great artist living down there, somebody that I grew up being my Warning, himself. He dispensed it freely to people. [laughter] idol. I loved his work; it was Frank Robbins, the great Johnny Hazard We’ve got a few more minutes, here. Stan, I’m going to ask you and Scorchy Smith artist. [applause] This was many years ago, and he to indulge me. I’d like to ask you a few questions, and I want you to was painting, and not drawing comics. Some people thought Frank give me real short answers, okay? [laughter] Short answers. Okay. disappeared, but he always loved Mexico. And I look in the local Between the time of Fantastic Four #1 and, let’s say, around 1969, directory, and I see a man called Franklin Robbins. It was that simple. what percentage of Marvel’s line do you think you colored? Just a And I’m a little nervous, cause I think he “dropped out,” and I’m short answer. [laughter] going to impose on him. But he knew I was there already, that there GOLDBERG: Colored? I mean, those books were 48 pages— was somebody in town who knew comics. So I phone him, and the first thing he said to me, he says, “Stan, why don’t you come over? I EVANIER: Thirty-two pages. How many of those books did you know you’re in town. Come on over. Spend time with me.” And we color? got to know each other quite well. GOLDBERG: I’d like to give you a quick answer because I have 99% But then, fast forward [to February 1994], I’m sitting there, when of them in the house, and I was smart enough, when I did ten books, all of a sudden, I hear somebody call my name. “Stan, Stan, Stan, 90

to go to a book binder, get a nice, safe leather binding around them. I did the first book, it’s in better shape now than when it was new. [laughter]

DC, he made the horrible mistake, for political reasons, of telling them at the office that he liked the Marvel coloring better than DC’s, and could they get some of those guys to color his work? That was sacrilegious. Steve, do you remember how much the people at DC were horrified that Jack didn’t think they had the all-time best coloring in the entire history of comics?

EVANIER: I’m going to get an answer to this question if it kills me. [laughter] Out of the first fifty issues of Fantastic Four, #1 through #50, how many of those do you think you colored?

SHERMAN: Oh, yeah.

GOLDBERG: Of course, I colored them completely. [laughter] I must give you a yes or no answer?

EVANIER: Steve and I designed the color scheme for Mister Miracle’s costume, because they designed something else and Jack was horrified by it, and he wished that whole time that he’d had Stan Goldberg coloring his work, [applause] and I wish we’d had Stan Goldberg coloring that work, and I wish we had more time so you could finish that story, Stan, but… [laughter].

EVANIER: No, I’m asking for—there are numbers in this world. [laughter] Give me a number. [laughter] Try this: I believe you only colored three or four of those issues. Am I right? GOLDBERG: FFs? No! [laughter] EVANIER: I believe you only colored ten of those issues. [laughter]

GOLDBERG: My claim to fame is, in the world of coloring—dear Steve Ditko, he’s still around, believe it or not. But many years ago, through a mutual friend that we had, Robin Snyder—who some of you know—told me that Steve told him the best colorist he had on Spider-Man was moi. [applause]

GOLDBERG: I’ll tell you an even better story... [laughter, applause] EVANIER: Stan, I’m much bigger than you. Don’t make me deck you, all right? [laughter] I want you to tell me a number, of the first fifty issues of Fantastic Four, how many issues, approximately, did you color, out of those fifty? Give me a number, or I’ll see that you never get invited to this convention again. [laughter]

EVANIER: We will continue this next year in a bigger room with even more time. Let me thank Mr. Paul Dini, Paul Levine, Charles Hatfield, and Mr. Stan Goldberg. [applause] H

GOLDBERG: 496. [applause] EVANIER: So you did 496 out of the first fifty. [laughter] Who else colored issues early on, besides you? Bill Everett colored some, right? GOLDBERG: Bill Everett even inked some of my stuff.

Before Frank Robbins retired to Mexico, he drew the Invaders at Marvel, for which Kirby penciled many covers, such as this one from issue #15 (April 1977). Robbins died in 1994 (the same year as Kirby) at the age of 77. For more on Robbins’ career and time in Mexico, look for TwoMorrows’ new mag Comic Book Creator #1 in April, which also features an extensive look at Kirby’s career.

EVANIER: Okay, but Bill Everett colored some stories, right? And Marie Severin colored some stories. Who else colored? Did Paul Reinman color some stories? GOLDBERG: Uh, George Roussos came later. EVANIER: All right. Who else colored stories in the early issues? Paul Reinman? Sol Brodsky colored some issues. GOLDBERG: Did he? EVANIER: Yes. Yes. [laughter] But I think you colored ninety percent of those issues. GOLDBERG: Probably. Probably. [cheers, sustained applause] Even in the seventies, they would call me. It’s strange, my name is not on any of those books. EVANIER: But you colored Fantastic Four #1. You colored Amazing Fantasy #15, right? GOLDBERG: That’s how we found out somebody was reading them, because letters were coming in: “Let’s put uniforms on them,” so Jack did them. Blue tights with a big “4” on them. EVANIER: You colored Amazing Fantasy #15 with the first Spider-Man. You colored the first Iron Man story. You colored the first “Thor.” You colored the first X-Men, right?

GOLDBERG: If you would have seen my spotlight [panel] my dear son put together, he put up all of those books. The movie that just came out, The Avengers? It was Avengers #1 which I did color. EVANIER: Okay. This man colored about eighty to ninety percent of those early books. [applause] And when other people did, it was because the line was expanding, and they wanted him to draw Millie the Model also, which probably paid a little better. I’m going to do this, Stan, all right? [laughter] He set the look of those books. When Jack went over to 91

Unearthed

The FF—by Thomas & Kirby! Interview conducted by Jerry Boyd

[We usually look at the King’s work on the fabulous Fantastic Four as a longtime collaboration with Stan Lee, various inkers, Kirby coming up with characters and concepts and pitching them to Lee, or even working out ideas with his wife! But rarely do we think of adding Roy Thomas to the mix. Roy worked on the FF cartoons of the late 1970s and, though he had little contact with Jack at the time, his ideas became storyboards and concepts that the King realized visually on paper. Here, he talks about those times and experiences. This interview was conducted by e-mail on September 27 and 29, 2009 for this magazine.]

TJKC: Were you focused on doing super-hero-based screenplays then or were you open to any kind-of dramatic material? And if super-heroes were your preferred genre, what super-hero stuff did you develop? ROY: I was lucky to have an agent because I’d been pulled into a NY agency that was just as active in Hollywood… and they felt, especially as Star Wars neared, that they might be able to sell me to movies and TV. I had quite a few meetings, but nothing quite took. I did a fair amount of work on a TV version of Siegel and Shuster’s Funnyman, though I doubt the producer ever really licensed any rights to it as he was, of course, supposed to do. The other material was fantasy, science-fiction, and the like. TJKC: You had some Hollywood connections of a sort with Harlan Ellison (who’d written episodes of The Outer Limits and Star Trek), Stan Lee (who’d helped develop the Marvel cartoons in the ’60s and ’70s), and Jack Kirby (who’d been

(above) This undated portrait of the Rascally One was done by Mike Zeck in the early 1970s. (right) This ad showed up in comics during the Summer of 1978 and told fans to look for the forthcoming FF cartoon that Fall. (below) An example of Kirby storyboarding from the Roy Thomasscripted “Blastaar” episode.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Roy, you’d been Marvel’s editor-in-chief and had been living in New York a number of years by the time the late ’70s rolled around. What gave you the urge to move west and try scriptwriting in Hollywood? ROY THOMAS: I didn’t move west to get into the movies… I just felt it was time to get away from the New York and comics milieu on a daily basis, since I had just left the editor-in-chief job a couple of years earlier and had just been offered the job again. Also, I’d been separated from my first wife Jeanie for half a year by the time I decided to move and that made NYC a bit less pleasant for me, as well.

ROY: Naturally, I thought Jack’s breakdowns were great! Others have said they weren’t “real” storyboards in the usual sense of animation, but DePatie-Freleng was apparently happy with them, and I think they produced a good product. Since Jack turned out the storyboards from my synopsis, of course I got to see them… I was writing dialogue to go with the storyboards.

TJKC: Stan and you wrote cartoon scripts (for the FF cartoons) in the late ’70s. What kind of writing instructions were you given by producers, if any? ROY: I wrote Marvel-style, and loved the result.

TJKC: Do you have anything else you’d like to add about the writing process for those shows? ROY: Not much, except that I had a bit of writer’s block before scripting the first one. Once I got started, it flowed, and Stan and DePatie were happy with what I did. DePatie asked me to develop a show idea on my own about disco, which became The Disco-nauts. They liked it, but it didn’t sell to the networks, and that was that. TJKC: How would you sum up the experiences you had in the studios, overall? ROY: Some of the folks were pleasant, but I wasn’t really enamored of working in animation, ever, despite liking working on the FF show. I preferred comics, but felt a need to branch out. H

TJKC: Were there any meetings with Stan or Jack Kirby to discuss possible ideas for the show back then? ROY: I met with Stan, and, more often, David DePatie… never with Jack, who was basically “just” the storyboard artist. TJKC: In TJKC #47, we saw a beautiful storyboard sequence by Kirby that was a nice alteration of the Lee-Kirby “The Infant Terrible!” from FF #23. Stan wrote that one for D-P from his old script. Did you do any takes on the old FF stories by Lee and Kirby also, or did you want to do completely original stories? ROY: You’d have to look up any stories I adapted… but I think all mine were basically originals, like “The Phantom of Film City” [which you can view at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTdck7HmKQ ] and one about Space Olympics.

[The 1978 Fantastic Four cartoon ran for 13 episodes, with H.E.R.B.I.E. the Robot in the Human Torch’s place. Most episodes were derivative of the comics Jack and Stan did, and there were several writers on the series. Original airdates are show below.] • “A Monster Among Us”—written by Stan Lee (Sep. 9, 1978) based on FF #24 • “The Phantom of Film City”—written by Roy Thomas (Sep. 16, 1978) based on FF #9 • “The Mole Man”—written by Stan Lee (Sep. 23, 1978) based on FF #1 • “The Olympics of Space”—written by Roy Thomas (Sep. 30, 1978) based on FF #90-93 • “Medusa and the Inhumans”—written by Stan Lee (Oct. 7, 1978) based on FF #45 • “The Menace of Magneto”—written by Stan Lee (Oct. 14, 1978) based on FF #102 • “The Fantastic Four Meet Doctor Doom”—written by Stan Lee (Oct. 21, 1978) based on FF #5 • “The Impossible Man”—written by Roy Thomas (Oct. 28, 1978) based on FF #11 • “The Diamond of Doom”—written by Christy Marx (Nov. 4, 1978) • “The Frightful Four”—written by Bob Johnson and Bob Stitzel (Nov. 11, 1978) based on FF #36 • “Calamity on the Campus”—written by Roy Thomas (Nov. 18, 1978) based on FF #35 • “The Final Victory of Doctor Doom”—written by Stan Lee (Dec. 9, 1978) based on FF #10 • “Blastaar, the Living Bomb Burst”—written by Roy Thomas (Dec. 16, 1978) based on FF #63

TJKC: We know from past interviews you’ve done that you and Jack weren’t the closest of associates. However, what do you remember about his attitude toward his animation work of that period? ROY: Nothing whatsoever, since we had virtually no contact. TJKC: What did you think of Kirby’s storyboards and did you get to see each one of them in completion after your scripts went to him?

working for Hanna-Barbera and Depatie-Freleng on various projects). Were any of those great talents able to make things a little easier after you’d settled in California? ROY: I had only a passing acquaintance with Harlan Ellison, Stan Lee didn’t move to L.A. till several years after I did, and Kirby wasn’t active in TV then, I don’t think. I had no connection with any of them.

Collector

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Comments

Time to f-f-follow up on your letters of comment!

As I write this, I’m four days from turning 50 years old. I’m also planning our family’s first trip to Europe, which will mean working overtime the next few months to get far enough ahead to take that time off, so next issue won’t be out till June. Before any other comments, let me address this letter from one of our readers, regarding last issue: Tremendously enjoyed TJKC #59, but I do have a question and a comment: 1) Why is the new issue $10.95? You’ve kept the price the same as it was for the “tabloidsized” issues, yet gone down to the “TwoMorrows Standard Size.” Not only are the current issues of BACK ISSUE and ALTER EGO selling for $8.95 in this format, they’re in fullcolor. Doesn’t quite seem right. I’m hoping you’ll tell us all that this was a misprint, and that subsequent issues will be priced the same as your other publications. 2) You stated in your “Opening Shot” that “Stan [Lee]’s position... is that he’s unequivocally the sole creator of all the Marvel characters.” While I agree that Kirby and Ditko and the artistic co-creators have not been given anywhere close to their due credit, in his 2002 autobiography EXCELSIOR: THE AMAZING LIFE OF STAN LEE, Lee states on page 172, “I sent [Ditko] a letter in which I acknowledged the he was the co-creator of SPIDER-MAN and told him that he could feel free to show that letter to anyone he chose... I’m more than willing to say that Steve co-created the web-swinger with me.” Frank Balkin, Sherman Oaks, CA (To item 1, TJKC #59 is NOT in the “standard” TwoMorrows magazine format. It’s 100 pages, including a 4-page color section, for $10.95. ALTER EGO and BACK ISSUE are 80 full-color pages for $8.95. So much of the Kirby work we show is in black-&-white, that I felt readers would prefer to have the extra 20 pages, rather than just 80, even in color. But both those mags have a higher print run than TJKC, and always have—thereby making them more economical to print, regardless of page count or color. We currently print both of them overseas—the only way we can afford full-color and maintain the $8.95 cover price. But that’s not an option for TJKC, because I spend so much time getting our other publications to press, that this mag unfortunately usually runs late, which doesn’t allow the extra lead time overseas printing requires (due to the time involved in slow shipping by sea freight to keep costs down). But even if we went 80 pages, full-color on TJKC and printed overseas, we’d have to charge $10.95 or higher, due to the lower print run on it. To item 2, I would direct you to Jonathan

Ross’ interview with Stan for his documentary IN SEARCH OF STEVE DITKO, which is viewable online. In it, while acknowledging the letter you reference, Stan makes it clear that he feels he’s the one who solely created Spidey, saying:”You dream it up, and then you give it to anybody to draw it.” Also, in his recent deposition in the Marvel vs. Kirby Estate case, when asked about his statements giving Kirby credit in his book ORIGINS OF MARVEL COMICS and other interviews, Stan now says: “So I tried to write these — knowing Jack would read them, I tried to write them to make it look as if he and I were just doing everything together, to make him feel good. And we were doing it together. “But with something like Galactus, it was me who said, ‘I want to do a demigod. I want to call him Galactus.’ “Jack said it was a great idea, and he drew a wonderful one and he did a great job on it. But in writing the book, I wanted to make it look as if we did it together. So I said we were both thinking about it, and we came up with Galactus.” Especially in the case of Stan’s work with Ditko and Kirby, I think those creations are a true collaboration, which would be entirely different based on who Stan’s collaborator is. Spider-Man’s a great example of this; Stan worked with Kirby on the character initially—possibly after Kirby brought the basic idea to Stan from an unused idea fleshed out with Joe Simon at Mainline. Stan says Jack drew a few pages, it wasn’t quite right, and then he turned to Steve Ditko for the final version. By Stan’s logic, if anybody could draw it, wouldn’t both Kirby and Ditko’s versions have ended up virtually the same?) Just picked up TJKC #59 and all I can say is “Wow!” What a great follow-up to the WONDER YEARS issue! And I’m afraid you’ll have to count me as among those who like the new/old format... yes, it’s easier to store! But also easier to handle and read. And you won’t catch me complaining about extra pages and color! Frankly, it amazes me that you can continue to find stuff to cover on Kirby after so many years, but keep it up! Pierre Comtois, Lowell, MA I was very disappointed to see that TJKC has shrunk back to its old size. I have every issue, but I didn’t buy the latest issue, nor do I plan to buy future issues if it stays at the smaller size. It’s one of the few periodicals I look forward to, and I will miss it. I have thoroughly enjoyed your magazine and wish you continued success with it. Dave Newton, Decatur, GA I had to let my subscription to TJKC lapse some time ago (because my mailman doesn’t know 94

how to deliver it without bending it), but I’ve been buying it off the shelf ever since and have never missed an issue. Had I been a subscriber, though, I would have gladly supported a price increase in order to maintain TJKC’s unique size. Shame on the “small minority” of readers who complained about the over-sized format, and shame on you for acquiescing. I know it must have been a difficult decision for you to make; my intention in writing was to provide feedback, not bust your chops. For my own part, I never have understood that “too difficult to store” argument some fans put forth, either. “STORYTELLER is too big.” “LONE WOLF & CUB is too small.” Personally, I’m not interested in storing my TJKCs in a box, anyway; I keep mine on a shelf with all my other oversize comic art books. Jeff Plackemeier, Arlington, TX Just wanted to drop you a line and first of all say thank you for putting out the JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR. It’s an excellent publication and I find I learn something new about Jack Kirby and his art every time I read a new issue. I also see that you have got back to the original format/size for the publication; while I understand why some people wanted to go to the smaller size to make it easier for collection purposes, I on the other hand preferred and really enjoyed the larger size format and would vote to continue using this format if possible. But I do understand the costs of doing business and I understand your basis for switching to the smaller size due to the increase in costs you would incur with the larger size, and which in turn would have to have been passed along sooner or later. In closing, do keep up the good work and I look forward to the next issue. Cornelius Ryn, Seattle, WA What a great cover to #59. I’m amazed at some of the ideas you come up with. A few corrections—which you’ve probably been belted over the head for already: Page 47: That’s the collage for FF #51, not ANNUAL #6. Page 64: That layout would be for TOS #78, not #92. Both issues had Nick Fury, but the robot is definitely from #78. The MISTER MIRACLE #7 cover was the published one, not the unpublished. Those 2 pages from DEMON #1 are unusual. Usually, Jack seems to drop whole pages out if he’s over the count (like the original page 11 of DEMON #1); this time he combined 2 pages into one. I wonder—is the published page 13 composed of chopped up panels glued in place? Or are there Royer-inked versions of both pages? I love how, after all this time, the second Manhunter concept sheet turns up. The ideas on these types of pages are amazing, and often, like on this one, virtually none have been used elsewhere by Jack. Wow! Page 76: You sure these are Kirby inks? The Rhino especially (ever drawn by Kirby before?)

the concept, praising the reason for the Blake identity NOT being part of a plot to ‘save the universe’! But even then, I did wonder why there were so many pages used for gratuitous fighting by Thor, with the whole point of the issue left to the last few pages and all the info about Blake’s ‘false past’ squashed into a couple of panels. Wouldn’t it have been just as easy and a bit better to have had Blake as a pre-existing crippled Doctor, who was now dying, then suddenly got a lease of (Odin given) health back? Then there are the ‘extra’ panels that Jack did for the reprint, which didn’t get used. Why were they done in the first place? Stan and Jack’s working relationship must have been really odd. (I know this wasn’t part of Glen’s musings, but one very practical reason I can think of for making THOR #158 mostly a reprint was to give Jack room on his schedule for FF ANNUAL #6. The previous year, he stopped Captain America for a few months because the Annuals were now all new and a LOT of extra work. Sure, in the past, he could have done it all, and more. But by now, his workload was more sane, and it seemed they did their best to stick to it.) To me, the Pluto story is ‘odd’ too—and since it fits right between the Galactus issues, I guess it’s relevant. #163 really looks to me like Jack was going to have ‘Him’ return, from the displaced Science Centre, into the middle of the Pluto/Thor tussle. But the battle ends in an ‘old’; that of Zeus interrupting as he and Odin had done so many times. Did Jack just forget his original plan? Or am I reading too much into it? (Seems to me a similar thing happened in #161. Was it always Jack’s intention to have Thor’s hammer plus a machine beat Galactus? Wouldn’t Ego’s power plus Thor’s be a better, more satisfying, combination? They were SO close to that! Surely Jack thought of it at some point?) A lot of Glen’s points are terrific—and I really understand why they resonate with him, even if I can’t go as far with it all as he does. Shane Foley, AUSTRALIA I have just finished reading [TJKC #58: THE WONDER YEARS] from cover to cover and I must congratulate you on one of the best books about the Silver Age of Comics. I have bought every issue of the JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR and I have also read most of the major books on the Silver Age of Comics and this reading experience was one of the most informative and enjoyable. What a great memorial for Mr. Alexander. I believe Mr. Alexander has laid out a blueprint for similar books on the other major Marvel titles of the Silver Age such as SPIDER-MAN, THE AVENGERS, THE X-MEN, THOR, etc. As a 58 year old Silver Age Marvel enthusiast, I certainly would buy publications in the same format. Gregory Martinez, Sacramento, CA Some more comments on the last few and much appreciated issues: TJKC #56: I wish you’d stop saying that indicia space on those Inhumans’ Origins features show they were for a projected series (page 22). I thought I (and others?) had shown that indicia spaces on Kirby’s features mean nothing. He used to leave them on Captain America in TOS, 95

even though, except for the very last episodes, it was never the lead feature (look up the episodes in ESSENTIALS—Marvel made no attempt to make the first pages the same size as the other 9 pages). Even more proof is that the indicia space is clearly found in the last Tales of Asgard feature in THOR #145. Surely, also, the Inhumans’ origins stories don’t read like anything that Marvel would have served up as a lead feature at the time, (unlike the solo Surfer story from FF ANNUAL #5), so I can’t see how a case can be made that these were ever intended for anything more than what they were. TJKC #57: Loved some of the comments in the Kirby ‘Innerview’ this issue. His reserved comments about his leaving of Marvel, as opposed to some of the excessive things he said later when it all really turned sour, were great to read. “What part did you play besides art?” “Quite a substantial part—that’s all I’m gonna say,” and the slightly less restrained “I think Stan Lee quoted me quite a good deal” were excellent! I thought his ‘cannibalism’ comment earlier was really weird, though hardly atypical Kirby off-the-wall stuff (it took me right off guard), while its context, of him speaking of Romita and Adams having to outdo him on his old strips (his words—‘to kill me’), was truly fair-minded to some fellow workers. Then on page 13, he reacts to a comment about his evil people having deformities with “How else do you show mental disfigurement on paper?”, a brief but brilliant glimpse into his philosophy behind his cartooning.

looks very Romita-ish to me. [Yep, it’s Romita!] And I really loved the fact that you’ll publish pieces like the unfinished THUNDARR drawing. It’s great to see Kirby’s process of building his images. To Glen Gold’s letter: Interesting to say the least—and I’m sure there are hundreds of us who completely understand his ‘addiction’ to pondering comic book issues like these. Some points that came to me: ‘Jack never portrays a day in the life of (say) Bruce Banner before he became the Hulk’. Ummm—not true of the FF, with FF #11 and ANNUAL #2 (and Sgt Fury #13) showing some. But the point is still made and generally true. Probably this is a special case though, since Thor’s origin is the only one that became completely incompatible with the series from as early as (I think) the second story. But again, the point is made—it was totally unusual for there to be thought given by Lee and Kirby to this incompatibility. This was usually left to Roy Thomas and others. Maybe there were just too many letters pointing out the problem? I totally agree that the series of THOR at this stage feels like it keeps shifting direction. Not sure I can give all Glen’s evidences the strength he would like, though. For instance, he quotes Lee’s script “It hath the seeming of RAGNAROK itself!” and “Eternal Asgard must ne’er suffer such a fate!” This to me sounds like nothing more than typical of Stan Lee injecting whatever melodrama he can into any scene he can. He was always saying things like “Never have we seen such power!!”—despite a more powerful villain being in the previous issue, and the like. So I don’t think this necessarily points to a plot for an attack on Asgard. Not quite so easily dismissed is another of Glen’s quotes, where Lee has Odin saying, “Then must thou bring him hence (i.e.: Galactus to Asgard)—for judgment!” One wouldn’t think that was just a casual line to beef up the tension. But on the other hand, it’s not hard to find Lee (maybe following Kirby’s lead?) doing just that. In FF #76, page 20, Reed says, “So long as Psycho Man still lives, our work is unfinished here!... And now it will be the three of us against the total forces of Sub-Atomica!” Sounds like they were off to kill him! But by the end of #77, when they do actually have Psycho Man on the ropes, Reed just wants to free him, so he can get them home. The whole point of them remaining in Sub-Atomica and searching for Psycho Man was simply ignored. Still, bringing Galactus to Asgard for judgment sounds like there was a definite plot direction for it at some point. Is that Galactus’ helmet in THOR #159? If so, where are all the pages drawn that show big G being captured/lured to Asgard? Or is it just a casual Kirby design, clumsily looking Galactusish? The panel before it is strangely empty as well, with all that shadowed floor. All in all, 4 panels just showing Thor walking toward the throne room seems very un-Kirby like. The point remains—the issues are clumsy. #159 was a favorite of mine as a kid—I had no idea that the ‘humility’ angle had been used before for Hercules. I remember my friend loving

TJKC #58: I’d like to know where those couple of alternate FF #94 Agatha Harkness panels came from. Were they published somewhere or were these the only examples? Or are they part of a full rejected page? Or something else? I’d ask a similar thing about those unused THOR #109 panels shown in #49. Here’s a minor question that I don’t think anyone has addressed—has anyone noticed that in FF issues #44-51, the Torch appeared on only 1 cover? That’s 7 issues out of 8 with no flaming Torch. There must be a reason for this, for surely the presence of the Torch would be perceived as a major selling point for a cover. Was this the time when Carl Burgos’ lawsuit was around and there was a directive to have Johnny flameless? (Although he was still the Torch in the corner box?) Seems odd to me. The FF #66 page was a terrific find. Simply wonderful pencils from the best artistic time in

My first reaction to #59, rather than being elated or outraged at the size-change, is simply gratification Here’s a tentative list of upcoming themes, but we treat these themes very loosely, and anything you write may fit somewhere. So get writing, and send us copies of your art! GOT A THEME IDEA? PLEASE WRITE US! #61: “JACK KIRBY: WRITER OF THE KIRBYVERSE” The good, bad, and ugly of the oft-maligned writing skills of the King. Here’s your chance to weigh in! Deadline for submissions: March 1, 2013. Ships June 2013. #62: “DC ISSUE” Kirby worked longer for DC than Marvel over the years, so

at seeing it at all. A long wait. Yes, I read and understand why. I just hope future issues come a bit more frequently. Even quarterly, as advertised, would be most welcome. So many comics publications run on momentum. The reader enjoys the current issue and eagerly awaits the next. But with half a year between releases, it’s tough. Any idea which issue that FF page with Sue (page 65) was intended for? Does it say on the original or reproduction? I’ll respectfully disagree with your guess on the Cap/Nick Fury cover (page 64). Because of the villain, it looks like a rejected take on TALES OF SUSPENSE #78. Still, even with all the smudges and glue stains, it was cool to see it. Enjoyed “The Auteur Theory of Comics.” Yes, though Stan, as early as 1966, claimed he created all the characters solo, his contradictory statements, along with common sense, suggest he’s the co-creator and deserves no more or less than halfcredit. Because of inaccurate or misleading assertions, I can’t take either Stan or Jack’s version of history as gospel. I’ve accepted that I won’t know which man initiated the characters or made which contribution towards developing them. But it’s no stretch to imagine they both were vitally involved and, therefore, should be thought of, spoken of and regarded as equals in the various collaborations. Because they’re thought of as artists and illustrators, should anyone dismiss the capacity of Jack, Steve Ditko, Don Heck and others to think and contribute creative ideas? With either a brief synopsis or conversation, they turned it into a fulllength story. They introduced concepts, not just pleasing visuals. They paced the story and defined how it would unfold. That’s a little more than pretty pictures. It’s a portion of the writing assignment in addition to their character designs, storytelling and rendering. So why should there be any discussion, much less an argument that they deserve name recognition and credit, too? And I don’t consider it “Stan bashing” when he initiated the topic and stacked it in his favor. Asking legitimate follow-up questions isn’t an attack. It’s an attempt to bypass nice-sounding legends and get to the truth of the matter. So, it’s really up to Stan to explain why he should be singled out, by name, while his collaborators are ignored or go unmentioned. I’ve no problem with Stan being applauded and rewarded. But I do resent seeing the others treated any differently. As to comic-based movies, so often we hear how many million or billion a franchise has raked in. Huge, inconceivable numbers. But when it comes to how much the co-creators share in that, there’s an uncomfortable silence. Joe Frank, Scottsdale, AZ

here’s a celebration of his best work for the company! #63: “MARVEL UNIVERSE” We do for the rest of Stan & Jack’s creations what THE WONDER YEARS did for the FF! Features Mark Alexander’s groundbreaking “A Universe A’Borning” essay and more. #64: “SUPER-SOLDIERS AND S&K” Kirby created an army of fighting men and boys, from Captain America to Fighting American, Sgt. Fury to The Losers, and Pvt. Strong to the Boy Commandos. We cover them all, including a tribute to Simon & Kirby!

#60 Credits: John Morrow, Editor/Designer/Proofreader Rand Hoppe, Webmaster Tom Ziuko, Colorist SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL OUR CONTRIBUTORS: Dick Ayers • Jerry Boyd • Mike Burkey Norris Burroughs • Paul Dini • Luca Dolcini Mark Evanier • Danny Fingeroth David Folkman • Pat Ford • Barry Forshaw Joe Frank • Mike Gartland • Glen Gold Stan Goldberg • David Hamilton Charles Hatfield • Heritage Auctions Rand Hoppe • Sean Howe • Jeremy Kirby Sean Kleefeld • Tom Kraft • Paul Levine Fred Manzano • Adam McGovern • Chris Ng Kevin Patrick • Stefano Priarone • Mike Royer David Schwartz • Mark Sinnott • Joe Sinnott Mike Thibodeaux • Roy Thomas Michael Vassallo • Pete Von Sholly • Mike Zeck and of course The Kirby Estate, the Jack Kirby Museum (www.kirbymuseum.org), and whatifkirby.com If we’ve forgotten anyone, please let us know!

Contribute & Get Free Issues! The Jack Kirby Collector is a not-for-profit publication, put together with submissions from Jack’s fans around the world. We don’t pay for submissions, but if we print art or articles you submit, we’ll send you a free copy of the issue it appears in. SUBMISSION GUIDELINES: Submit artwork as 300ppi TIFF or JPEG scans or Color or B&W photocopies. Submit articles as ASCII or RTF text files, by e-mail to: store@twomorrowspubs.com or as hardcopies. Include background information when possible.

Kirby’s life! Speaking of FF #66, I find that the notion that Stan’s alleged tampering with this story being supposedly a reason for Jack ‘shutting down’ his contributions to the stories to be a bit at odds with other indications of Jack’s working methods. Elsewhere, we have read that Jack probably never even read Stan’s scripted pages. For instance, John Romita said somewhere he thinks this is the reason Jack truly thought he ‘wrote’ the stories, because he assumed Stan followed his notes closely. So unless Stan sent Jack a big note on changes he’d made with the story, surely Jack would simply have presented Stan with the story he originally envisaged and Stan would have been forced to script around it. Unless Jack was forced to redraw part of #67—but since no pages have ever turned up for that, it seems unlikely to me. (I wonder if, in all the comments about these issues that Mark refers to, another element of those issues has been commented on—that is, the sheer lunacy of the story’s premise. Here we have a creature so powerful these brilliant scientists can’t even get close enough to photograph it, yet they expect a blind girl to get close enough to touch it repeatedly to sculpt a model. Insane! Yet, this is my all time favorite story as a kid, so it clearly worked for me!) On page 98, Mark refers to FF ANNUAL #7 as evidence of Kirby’s run being in its death-throes— yet I ask what has a management decision like this got to do with Jack? Every annual that year was reprint. I doubt even if Jack had said ‘no’ to doing an Annual for the FF that the entire line would then go reprint. And I totally disagree with his evaluation of the cover too. I reckon it’s nice. On page 109, Mark refers to an Evanier opinion that FF #100 was originally to be a giant issue, with that leftover page being one of those cut. I think we’d need more evidence that this was ever a possibility, because Marvel didn’t produce any giant anniversary issues for close to 10 years after this (I think the first was CONAN #100, in 1979— and even this was prepared as 2 issues, so it wasn’t even certain then). What is definite is that around this time, all Marvels went from 20 pages to 19 (with 12 and 13 being 2 half-pages) and FF #100 was the first FF with the reduced page count. The extra page fits right there, at page 12, with it’s first panel being the same subject as that on the published 12. The Hulk sequence was then deleted. Surely this is a far more likely answer. I don’t buy the 9 panel grid thing being a sign of a condensed plot either, nor do I find the plot ‘choppy’. Unless more unused pages turn up, I would doubt Kirby did any redrawing beyond what was necessary to make up for the deleted page we have. Shane Foley (again), AUSTRALIA

NEXT ISSUE: #61’s theme is JACK KIRBY: WRITER! Whether creating stories while drawing, or pecking away at a typewriter, Kirby gave his work a unique voice which fans either love or hate. Don’t miss this examination of the quirks of Kirby’s conceptualizing and wordsmithing, from the operatic FOURTH WORLD to melodramatic ROMANCE work, and beyond! There’s a feature-length Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, NORRIS BURROUGHS on Larry Lieber’s scripting for Jack, the late RAY ZONE detailing his 3-D collaborations with Kirby, a comparison of STEVE GERBER’s Destroyer Duck scripts to Jack’s pencils, Kirby’s best promotional blurbs, galleries of pencil art including NEW GODS, DESTROYER DUCK, 2001, and more! We’re still deciding on the cover, but the issue ships in June 2013.

C o l l e c t o r

The JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine (edited by JOHN MORROW) celebrates the life and career of the “King” of comics through INTERNS VIEWS WITH KIRBY and EDITIO BLE A IL his contemporaries, AVA NLY FEATURE ARTICLES, FOR O $3.95 RARE AND UNSEEN $1.95— KIRBY ART, plus regular columns by MARK EVANIER and others, and presentation of KIRBY’S UNINKED PENCILS from the 1960s-80s (from photocopies preserved in the KIRBY ARCHIVES).

DIGITAL

Go online for #1-30 as Digital Editions, and an ULTIMATE BUNDLE with all the issues at HALF-PRICE!

KIRBY COLLECTOR #34

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #31

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FIRST TABLOID-SIZE ISSUE! MARK EVANIER’s new column, interviews with KURT BUSIEK and JOSÉ LADRONN, NEAL ADAMS on Kirby, Giant-Man overview, Kirby’s best 2-page spreads, 2000 Kirby Tribute Panel (MARK EVANIER, GENE COLAN, MARIE SEVERIN, ROY THOMAS, and TRACY & JEREMY KIRBY), huge Kirby pencils! Wraparound KIRBY/ADAMS cover!

KIRBY’S LEAST-KNOWN WORK! MARK EVANIER on the Fourth World, unfinished THE HORDE novel, long-lost KIRBY INTERVIEW from France, update to the KIRBY CHECKLIST, pencil gallery of Kirby’s leastknown work (including THE PRISONER, BLACK HOLE, IN THE DAYS OF THE MOB, TRUE DIVORCE CASES), westerns, and more! KIRBY/LADRONN cover!

FANTASTIC FOUR ISSUE! Gallery of FF pencils at tabloid size, MARK EVANIER on the FF Cartoon series, interviews with STAN LEE and ERIK LARSEN, JOE SINNOTT salute, the HUMAN TORCH in STRANGE TALES, origins of Kirby Krackle, interviews with nearly EVERY WRITER AND ARTIST who worked on the FF after Kirby, & more! KIRBY/LARSEN and KIRBY/TIMM covers!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #36

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FIGHTING AMERICANS! MARK EVANIER on 1960s Marvel inkers, SHIELD, Losers, and Green Arrow overviews, INFANTINO interview on Simon & Kirby, KIRBY interview, Captain America PENCIL ART GALLERY, PHILIPPE DRUILLET interview, JOE SIMON and ALEX TOTH speak, unseen BIG GAME HUNTER and YOUNG ABE LINCOLN Kirby concepts! KIRBY and KIRBY/TOTH covers!

GREAT ESCAPES! MISTER MIRACLE pencil art gallery, MARK EVANIER, MARSHALL ROGERS & MICHAEL CHABON interviews, comparing Kirby and Houdini’s backgrounds, analysis of “Himon,” 2001 Kirby Tribute Panel (WILL EISNER, JOHN BUSCEMA, JOHN ROMITA, MIKE ROYER, & JOHNNY CARSON) & more! KIRBY/MARSHALL ROGERS and KIRBY/STEVE RUDE covers!

THOR ISSUE! Never-seen KIRBY interview, JOE SINNOTT and JOHN ROMITA JR. on their Thor work, MARK EVANIER, extensive THOR and TALES OF ASGARD coverage, a look at the “real” Norse gods, 40 pages of KIRBY THOR PENCILS, including a Kirby Art Gallery at TABLOID SIZE, with pin-ups, covers, and more! KIRBY covers inked by MIKE ROYER and TREVOR VON EEDEN!

“HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY!” MIKE ROYER interview on how he inks Jack’s work, HUGE GALLERY tracing the evolution of Jack’s style, new column on OBSCURE KIRBY WORK, MARK EVANIER, special sections on Jack’s TECHNIQUE AND INFLUENCES, comparing STAN LEE’s writing to JACK’s, and more! Two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS!

“HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY!” PART 2: JOE SINNOTT on how he inks Jack’s work, HUGE PENCIL GALLERY, list of the art in the KIRBY ARCHIVES, MARK EVANIER, special sections on Jack’s technique and influences, SPEND A DAY WITH KIRBY (with JACK DAVIS, GULACY, HERNANDEZ BROS., and RUDE) and more! Two UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #39

KIRBY COLLECTOR #40

KIRBY COLLECTOR #41

KIRBY COLLECTOR #42

KIRBY COLLECTOR #43

FAN FAVORITES! Covering Kirby’s work on HULK, INHUMANS, and SILVER SURFER, TOP PROS pick favorite Kirby covers, Kirby ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT interview, MARK EVANIER, 2002 Kirby Tribute Panel (DICK AYERS, TODD McFARLANE, PAUL LEVITZ, HERB TRIMPE), pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by MIKE ALLRED and P. CRAIG RUSSELL!

WORLD THAT’S COMING! KAMANDI and OMAC spotlight, 2003 Kirby Tribute Panel (WENDY PINI, MICHAEL CHABON, STAN GOLDBERG, SAL BUSCEMA, LARRY LIEBER, and STAN LEE), P. CRAIG RUSSELL interview, MARK EVANIER, NEW COLUMN analyzing Jack’s visual shorthand, pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by ERIK LARSEN and REEDMAN!

1970s MARVEL WORK! Coverage of ’70s work from Captain America to Eternals to Machine Man, DICK GIORDANO & MARK SHULTZ interviews, MARK EVANIER, 2004 Kirby Tribute Panel (STEVE RUDE, DAVE GIBBONS, WALTER SIMONSON, and PAUL RYAN), pencil art gallery, unused 1962 HULK #6 KIRBY PENCILS, and more! Kirby covers inked by GIORDANO and SCHULTZ!

1970s DC WORK! Coverage of Jimmy Olsen, FF movie set visit, overview of all Newsboy Legion stories, KEVIN NOWLAN and MURPHY ANDERSON on inking Jack, never-seen interview with Kirby, MARK EVANIER on Kirby’s covers, Bongo Comics’ Kirby ties, complete ’40s gangster story, pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by NOWLAN and ANDERSON!

KIRBY AWARD WINNERS! STEVE SHERMAN and others sharing memories and neverseen art from JACK & ROZ, a never-published 1966 interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER on VINCE COLLETTA, pencils-toSinnott inks comparison of TALES OF SUSPENSE #93, and more! Covers by KIRBY (Jack’s original ’70s SILVER STAR CONCEPT ART) and KIRBY/SINNOTT!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #44

KIRBY COLLECTOR #45

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #47

KIRBY COLLECTOR #48

KIRBY’S MYTHOLOGICAL CHARACTERS! Coverage of DEMON, THOR, & GALACTUS, interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER, pencil art galleries of the Demon and other mythological characters, two never-reprinted BLACK MAGIC stories, interview with Kirby Award winner DAVID SCHWARTZ and F4 screenwriter MIKE FRANCE, and more! Kirby cover inked by MATT WAGNER!

Jack’s vision of PAST AND FUTURE, with a never-seen KIRBY interview, a new interview with son NEAL KIRBY, MARK EVANIER’S column, two pencil galleries, two complete ’50s stories, Jack’s first script, Kirby Tribute Panel (with EVANIER, KATZ, SHAW!, and SHERMAN), plus an unpublished CAPTAIN 3-D cover, inked by BILL BLACK and converted into 3-D by RAY ZONE!

Focus on NEW GODS, FOREVER PEOPLE, and DARKSEID! Includes a rare interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER’s column, FOURTH WORLD pencil art galleries (including Kirby’s redesigns for SUPER POWERS), two 1950s stories, a new Kirby Darkseid front cover inked by MIKE ROYER, a Kirby Forever People back cover inked by JOHN BYRNE, and more!

KIRBY’S SUPER TEAMS, from kid gangs and the Challengers, to Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Super Powers, with unseen 1960s Marvel art, a rare KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER’s column, two pencil art galleries, complete 1950s story, author JONATHAN LETHEM on his Kirby influence, interview with JOHN ROMITA, JR. on his Eternals work, and more!

KIRBYTECH ISSUE, spotlighting Jack’s hightech concepts, from Iron Man’s armor and Machine Man, to the Negative Zone and beyond! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER’s column, two pencil art galleries, complete 1950s story, TOM SCIOLI interview, Kirby Tribute Panel (with ADAMS, PÉREZ, and ROMITA), and covers inked by TERRY AUSTIN and TOM SCIOLI!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #49

KIRBY COLLECTOR #51

KIRBY COLLECTOR #52

WARRIORS, spotlighting Thor (with a look at hidden messages in BILL EVERETT’s Thor inks), Sgt. Fury, Challengers of the Unknown, Losers, and others! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, interviews with JERRY ORDWAY and GRANT MORRISON, MARK EVANIER’s column, pencil art gallery, a complete 1950s story, wraparound Thor cover inked by JERRY ORDWAY, and more!

Bombastic EVERYTHING GOES issue, with a wealth of great submissions that couldn’t be pigeonholed into a “theme” issue! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, new interviews with JIM LEE and ADAM HUGHES, MARK EVANIER’s column, huge pencil art galleries, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS, and more!

Spotlights Kirby’s most obscure work: an UNUSED THOR STORY, BRUCE LEE comic, animation work, stage play, unaltered pages from KAMANDI, DEMON, DESTROYER DUCK, and more, including a feature examining the last page of his final issue of various series BEFORE EDITORIAL TAMPERING (with lots of surprises)! Color Kirby cover inked by DON HECK!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #55

KIRBY COLLECTOR #56

KIRBY COLLECTOR #57

KIRBY COLLECTOR #53

KIRBY COLLECTOR #54

THE MAGIC OF STAN & JACK! New interview with STAN LEE, walking tour of New York where Lee & Kirby lived and worked, re-evaluation of the “Lost” FF #108 story (including a new page that just surfaced), “What If Jack Hadn’t Left Marvel In 1970?,” plus MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, behind a color Kirby cover inked by GEORGE PÉREZ!

STAN & JACK PART TWO! More on the co-creators of the Marvel Universe, final interview (and cover inks) by GEORGE TUSKA, differences between KIRBY and DITKO’S approaches, WILL MURRAY on the origin of the FF, the mystery of Marvel cover dates, MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, plus Kirby back cover inked by JOE SINNOTT!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #59

KIRBY COLLECTOR #60

“Kirby Goes To Hollywood!” SERGIO ARAGONÉS and MELL LAZARUS recall Kirby’s BOB NEWHART TV show cameo, comparing the recent STAR WARS films to New Gods, RUBY & SPEARS interviewed, Jack’s encounters with FRANK ZAPPA, PAUL McCARTNEY, and JOHN LENNON, MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a Golden Age Kirby story, and more! Kirby cover inked by PAUL SMITH!

“Unfinished Sagas”—series, stories, and arcs Kirby never finished. TRUE DIVORCE CASES, RAAM THE MAN MOUNTAIN, KOBRA, DINGBATS, a complete story from SOUL LOVE, complete Boy Explorers story, two Kirby Tribute Panels, MARK EVANIER and other regular columnists, pencil art galleries, and more, with Kirby’s “Galaxy Green” cover inked by ROYER, and the unseen cover for SOUL LOVE #1!

“Legendary Kirby”—how Jack put his spin on classic folklore! TONY ISABELLA on SATAN’S SIX (with Kirby’s unseen layouts), Biblical inspirations of DEVIL DINOSAUR, THOR through the eyes of mythologist JOSEPH CAMPBELL, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, rare Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, pencil art from ETERNALS, DEMON, NEW GODS, THOR, and Jack’s ATLAS cover!

“Kirby Vault!” Rarities from the “King” of comics: Personal correspondence, private photos, collages, rare Marvelmania art, bootleg album covers, sketches, transcript of a 1969 VISIT TO THE KIRBY HOME (where Jack answers the questions YOU’D ask in ‘69), MARK EVANIER, pencil art from the FOURTH WORLD, CAPTAIN AMERICA, MACHINE MAN, SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, and more!

FANTASTIC FOUR FOLLOW-UP to #58’s THE WONDER YEARS! Never-seen FF wraparound cover, interview between FF inkers JOE SINNOTT and DICK AYERS, rare LEE & KIRBY interview, comparison of a Jack and Stan FF story conference to Stan’s final script and Jack’s penciled pages, MARK EVANIER and other columnists, gallery of KIRBY FF ART, pencils from BLACK PANTHER, SILVER SURFER, & more!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

(104-page magazine with COLOR) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUMES, edited by John Morrow Each book contains over 30 PIECES OF KIRBY ART NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED!

VOLUME 2

VOLUME 3

VOLUME 5

VOLUME 6

VOLUME 7

KIRBY CHECKLIST

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #10-12, and a tour of Jack’s home!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #13-15, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #20-22, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #23-26, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27-30, plus new art!

Lists EVERY KIRBY COMIC, BOOK, UNPUBLISHED WORK and more!

(160-page trade paperback) $17.95 ISBN: 9781893905016 Diamond Order Code: MAR042974

(176-page trade paperback) $19.95 ISBN: 9781893905023 Diamond Order Code: APR043058

(224-page trade paperback) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905573 Diamond Order Code: FEB063353

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490038 Diamond Order Code: JUN084280

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490120 Diamond Order Code: DEC084286

(128-page trade paperback) $14.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 ISBN: 9781605490052 Diamond Order Code: MAR084008

NEW!

Lee & Kirby: THE WONDER YEARS

Celebrate the 50th ANNIVERSARY OF FANTASTIC FOUR #1 with this special squarebound edition (#58) of THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR, about two pop-culture visionaries who created the Fantastic Four, and a decade in comics that was more tumultuous and awe-inspiring than any before or since. Calling on his years of research, plus new interviews conducted just for this book (with STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARK EVANIER, JOE SINNOTT, and others), regular Jack Kirby Collector contributor MARK ALEXANDER traces both Lee and Kirby’s history at Marvel Comics, and the remarkable series of events and career choices that led them to converge in 1961 to conceive the Fantastic Four. It also documents the evolution of the FF throughout the 1960s, with previously unknown details about Lee and Kirby’s working relationship, and their eventual parting of ways in 1970. With a wealth of historical information and amazing Kirby artwork, STAN LEE & JACK KIRBY: THE WONDER YEARS beautifully examines the first decade of the FF, and the events that put into motion the 1960s era that came to be known as the Marvel Age of Comics! (128-page tabloid-size trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781605490380 • Diamond Order Code: SEP111248

NEW!

SILVER STAR: GRAPHITE EDITION

First conceptualized in the 1970s as a movie screenplay, SILVER STAR was too far ahead of its time for Hollywood, so artist JACK KIRBY adapted it as a six-issue mini-series for Pacific Comics in the 1980s, making it his final, great comics series. Now the entire six-issue run is collected here, reproduced from his powerful, uninked PENCIL ART, showing Kirby’s work in its undiluted, raw form! Also included is Kirby’s ILLUSTRATED SILVER STAR MOVIE SCREENPLAY, never-seen SKETCHES, PIN-UPS, and an historical overview to put it all in perspective!

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR SPECIAL EDITION

(160-page trade paperback) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781893905559 Diamond Order Code: JAN063367

CAPTAIN VICTORY: GRAPHITE EDITION

Compiles the “extra” new material from COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUMES 1-7, in one huge Digital Edition! Includes a fan’s private tour of the Kirbys’ remarkable home, profusely illustrated with photos, and more than 200 pieces of Kirby art not published outside of those volumes. If you already own the individual issues and skipped the collections, or missed them in print form, now you can get caught up!

For the first time, JACK KIRBY’s original CAPTAIN VICTORY GRAPHIC NOVEL is presented as it was created in 1975 (before being broken up and modified for the 1980s Pacific Comics series), reproduced from copies of Kirby’s uninked pencil art! This first “new” Kirby comic in years features page after page of prime pencils, and includes Jack’s unused CAPTAIN VICTORY SCREENPLAY, unseen art, an historical overview to put it in perspective, and more! (52-page comic book) $5.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95

(120-page Digital Edition) $4.95

NOTE: THIS IS ISSUE #58 OF THE KIRBY COLLECTOR!

KIRBY FIVE-OH! CELEBRATING 50 YEARS OF THE “KING” OF COMICS

For its 50th issue, the publication that started TwoMorrows presents KIRBY FIVE-OH!, a BOOK covering the best of everything from Kirby’s 50-year career in comics! The regular KIRBY COLLECTOR columnists have formed a distinguished panel of experts to choose and examine: The BEST KIRBY STORY published each year from 1938-1987! The BEST COVERS from each decade! Jack’s 50 BEST UNUSED PIECES OF ART! His 50 BEST CHARACTER DESIGNS! And profiles of, and commentary by, the 50 PEOPLE MOST INFLUENCED BY KIRBY’S WORK! Plus there’s a 50-PAGE GALLERY of Kirby’s powerful RAW PENCIL ART, and a DELUXE COLOR SECTION of photos and finished art from throughout his entire half-century oeuvre. This TABLOID-SIZED TRADE PAPERBACK features a previously unseen Kirby Superman cover inked by “DC: The New Frontier” artist DARWYN COOKE, and an introduction by MARK EVANIER, helping make this the ultimate retrospective on the career of the “King” of comics! Takes the place of JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #50. (168-page tabloid-size trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781893905894 Diamond Order Code: FEB084186

NOTE: THIS IS ISSUE #50 OF THE KIRBY COLLECTOR!

KIRBY UNLEASHED (REMASTERED)

Reprinting the fabled 1971 KIRBY UNLEASHED PORTFOLIO, completely remastered! Spotlights some of KIRBY’s finest art from all eras of his career, including 1930s pencil work, unused strips, illustrated World War II letters, 1950s pages, unpublished 1960s Marvel pencil pages and sketches, and Fourth World pencil art (done expressly for this portfolio in 1970)! We’ve gone back to the original art to ensure the best reproduction possible, and MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN have updated the Kirby biography from the original printing, and added a new Foreword explaining how this portfolio came to be! PLUS: We’ve recolored the original color plates, and added EIGHT NEW BLACK-&-WHITE PAGES, plus EIGHT NEW COLOR PAGES, including Jack’s four GODS posters (released separately in 1972), and four extra Kirby color pieces, all at tabloid size! (60-page tabloid with COLOR) SOLD OUT • (Digital Edition) $5.95

TwoMorrows—A New Day For Comics Fandom! TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: store@twomorrowspubs.com • www.twomorrows.com

The final page pencils from What If! #11—Jack’s farewell to the FF in comics.

Parting Shot

100

A COMICS HISTORY GAME-CHANGER!

AMERICAN COMIC BOOK CHRONICLES

THE

1960-64 Volume NOW SHIPPING! 1980s Volume ships in MARCH!

This ambitious new series of FULLCOLOR HARDCOVERS documents every decade of comic books from the 1940s to today! Each colossal volume presents a year-by-year account of the comic book industry’s most significant publications, most notable creators, and most impactful trends.

This ongoing project enlists TwoMorrows’ top authors, as they provide exhaustively researched details on all the major events along the comics history timeline! Editor KEITH DALLAS (The Flash Companion) spearheads the series and writes his own volume on the 1980s. Also in the works are two volumes on the 1940s by ROY THOMAS, the 1950s by BILL SCHELLY, two volumes on the 1960s by JOHN WELLS, a 1970s volume by JIM BEARD, and more volumes documenting the 1990s and 2000s. Taken together, the series forms the first cohesive, linear overview of the entire landscape of comics history, sure to be an invaluable resource for ANY comic book enthusiast! JOHN WELLS leads off with the first of two volumes on the 1960s, covering all the pivotal moments and behind-the-scenes details of comics in the JFK and Beatles era! You’ll get a year-by-year account of the most significant publications, notable creators, and impactful trends, including: DC Comics’ rebirth of GREEN LANTERN, HAWKMAN, and others, and the launch of JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA and multiple earths! STAN LEE and JACK KIRBY’s transformation of superhero comics with the debut of FANTASTIC FOUR, SPIDER-MAN, HULK, X-MEN, AVENGERS, and other iconic characters! Plus BATMAN gets a “new look”, the BLUE BEETLE is revamped at Charlton Comics, and CREEPY #1 brings horror back to comics, just as Harvey’s “kid” comics are booming! 1960-64 VOLUME: (224-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 • (Digital Edition) $11.95 • ISBN: 9781605490458 • Diamond Order Code: JUL121245

NOW SHIPPING! (192-page trade paperback with COLOR) $27.95 • (Digital Edition) $8.95 ISBN: 9781605490434 • Diamond Order Code: AUG121322

LOU SCHEIMER: Creating the Filmation Generation The co-founder of Filmation Studios tells all about leading the last American animation company through thirty years of innovation and fun! (288-page trade paperback with COLOR) $29.95 • (Digital Edition) $9.95 ISBN: 9781605490441 • Diamond Order Code: JUL121245

MATT BAKER: The Art of Glamour The fabled master of glamour art finally gets his due! (192-page HARDCOVER with 96 COLOR pages) $39.95 • (Digital Edition) $11.95 ISBN: 9781605490328 • Diamond Order Code: JUN121310

TwoMorrows.A New Day For Comics Fans! TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: store@twomorrowspubs.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com

The Best of FROM THE TOMB Compiles the finest features from the preeminent magazine on horror comics history, along with never-seen material!

82658 23978 7

$10

FA N TA S T I C F O U R F O L L O W - U P I S S U E

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR SIXTY