© Răzvan Ion, Timișoara, 2013
ANDREEA PĂTRU - ENGLISH VERSION Some works I’ve done bilingual, both Romanian and English. Here is the English version since we are speaking about some interviews with foreign artists (musicians, cinematographers). Andreea Pătru in dialogue with Swel Noury: “I don’t belong to a place…” Chinawoman: “I’m a natural” Rabble with a Cause – On Music and Civil Disobedience with The Ex
Andreea Pătru in dialogue with Swel Noury: “I don’t belong to a place…”
Swel Noury. At first, his name didn’t sound familiar. Only after some research, it shook me: I’ve met this person before. Not in person, but throughout his movie, “Heaven’s Doors” which I’ve seen in 2006, in the “Anonimul” Festival selection. Since happy memories happened back then, I had to meet him. After the opening of “Common Nostalgia” and a lecture he held at PAVILION, I got to know him better and showed him a glimpse of Bucharest. Since no enchanted evening should stop abruptly, we ended watching some guys performing karaoke in some random pub, making fun of the characters they were playing. Also a photographer, our encounter was a frame by frame conversation about his filmic views and personal influences.
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The film Swel is developing now is a story about parricide. I’ve noticed that Swel has an interest in exploring family issues through his scripts, so I’ve asked him how working with his family is and dropped a hint if he wants somehow to capture an oedipal theme. “Working with family has its ups and downs, it’s good because it’s an environment of pure trust, but also it’s so visceral because you wake up with the same people you shoot the movie with, which makes it very very intense. Also the shooting brings a lot of tension, of problems, but at least you know you won’t be fucked. Now for my next movie we are working with a French producer and in a way it’s amazing because of the respect, the distance. And about Oedip, my dearest thing is to write about families, because I think it’s the essence of society, the basic structure if you wanna analyse society… even if I put my characters in tough situations people relate to them…” He told me he has seen a shrink for some time, both because of personal and professional reasons. Besides family, he thinks, it is important to face your conscience by interpreting dreams and it it is a very good exercise for an artist. Swel has travelled to many countries, he was born in Morocco from a Spanish mother (a film producer) and a Moroccan father (film director as well), moved to Barcelona and now works in Paris…so my obvious question was about how much do his roots matter.
“I would say that my films don’t come from the place I come from… it leads to the question of identity and when you’re someone like me, or my brother, it’s very different from other filmmakers for example, Moroccan father, Spanish mother and educated in French schools, which makes my link to society very differently. So that’s what I’ve tried to explain, I can’t make that kind of movies about social because my culture is nothing like that, that’s why I think my movies are universal, because I don’t know so much the Arab culture, I don’t know that much the Spanish culture, my culture it’s very very French, my mind, the way I think intellectually, so I think the result it’s more universal so I am attracted to different forms of art which can be Japanese, Russian, Mexican, whatever, but I think I don’t belong to a place.” That’s why as a filmmaker he would like to shoot a movie in another place every time. I wanted to know where does the creative process begin so I asked him about the way he works. Some film directors don’t even believe in a script; for instance Wong Kar Wai is inspired by a place, a pose and changes everything or works on his script meanwhile shooting, others are very strict… “If you read a script you have a translation of how you wanna shoot it, but also you have written the dialogue. And dialogue stays in the image. I can’t conceive cinema as something only about image and it is not true that a script is a way to codify and uncodify. And there are very different languages.
I spend a lot of time on my dialogue. I read it loud and listen to the rhythm of my voice. For me it’s a good mix between them. And that’s why adapting the book is not only keeping the dialogue, it’s also adding the atmosphere.” Swel was for the first time exhibited in a gallery, to be more specific in the context of a centre for contemporary art. The curatorial theme “COMMON NOSTALGIA” came as a link to his views on nostalgia as the longing for the Paradise Lost and “the figure of the Christ is the Paradise we lost, it’s our salvation and we all need to be saved, so there’s a link between the nostalgia we’ve never had, and the figure of the Christ who represents it. And that’s why “The Idiot”, the redeemer and also the character X seem so unreal. If you look at the conversation between Ivan Karamazov and the priest, his brother, the novice Aliosha, and the conversation between Meursault and the chaplain in “The Stranger” by Camus… it is always a moment when we feel lost and feel the urge of a redeemer, as unreal as it might seem” Knowing his roots and interest in religious themes, I was curious if he’d grown up in a secular family or a religious one. “Religion is also a myth of our civilisation and even now when religion is taking a lot of power in a very restrictive way.
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As it was said, (n.m. Malraux) “the 21st century will be religious or not”….we see how Islam is taking over the world and the more you try to stop it, the more it’s gonna spread. Even in my personal life i’ve met people getting closer to religion, I had girlfriends that belonged to other religions, but what I can’t stand is the addiction that comes with it. On the other hand, I totally respect religious people, but once you make it public it’s a lack of respect. I don’t like people imposing, showing off and creating a religious society, when religion becomes a state one, I hate it. But, what I do like, about the Catholic religion, the aesthetic part of it, especially the Passion of the Christ, I don’t know why, but I think it’s something that goes back to me, and even in music, the requiems, and that’s why I like Dostoyevsky.” I was skeptical about the idea of the redeemer, but Swel assured me it’s a concept he likes because it shows the vulnerability of the human. “Having someone to take all the sins for the humanity means that humanity can’t do it by itself. So it’s always easier to create a figure that does it. Nobody does that. I think sin is everywhere and he thinks the woman is a sinner. I’ve never believed in this idea of the 21st century that men are actually good and corrupted by society. I do believe that men are bad and trying to deal with this evilness between us and that’s why we created justice, law and all those things trying to control violence. That’s also a good theme and they are all linked, there is a link between violence, family and religion, it’s the Holy Trinity of society. I sometimes see it in a very romantic way, it’s interesting to have someone to do it for us and what it expresses is that we can’t do it.”
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Writing the script is the only process Swel doesn’t share with his brother. Once the script written, they talk hours and hours about the movie, how they see it, they bring ideas, visual references, music, excerpts from videoclips, create a mood board, like in commercials to be easier for the team to understand their point of view. “Every decision is taken before the shooting, we argue a lot, but you will never see us argue in public, in front of the crew, and we argue a bit in the editing room because my brother hasn’t written the script so he has a cooler position in the editing, sharing a creative process is not a natural thing, it’s very complicated, it takes time, because we are dealing with egos.” Viewing “Heaven’s Doors” and especially “The Man Who Sold The World”, I noticed a very special feeling, given by the format so cinematic, almost unnaturally wide. The human eye is not accustomed with that kind of gaze, it is artificial, so I admired their courage to explore something like that. Of course, the effect was even more disturbing by the signature hand-hold camera, but somehow it was a good choice. “Ideally we would shoot in 16mm but it would have been so hard to retouch the image, and we work a lot on our image afterwards. You will never get the blacks and the whites in 35mm, but immediacy is a good quality, you can edit immediately.”
Strolling on Calea Victoriei Street, I couldn’t help but wonder; what if “The Man who sold the World” would have taken place in a real recognisable location? “If it would have taken place in Casablanca with real Arab names it would have been rejected day 1. Dystopia creates a problem with the audience, because they are not into it, they don’t have references, on the contrary, you have to create replicas and it is harder, it would have been much easy if we would have filmed the movie with Moroccan references, it’s about compromising all the time. That’s why we can’t talk about art. And that’s why art is somehow perverted”.
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This feeling sounds familiar, working in the field and the constant struggle for resources in the art world taught me something about this endless debate in the independent film area. There is something mysterious about Bucharest, which is a town you grow on loving; it intrigues you, you hate its inextricable ways, its grumpiness, but something draws you into its weird labyrinthian feelings. Romania was called by Huffington Post “The First Dystopia”. Even walking down the street you can get a sense of how absurd society must look through the eyes of a foreigner. From the taxi drivers fighting to the guy who inexplicably had a quarrel with a traffic sign, we seem to be living in a mad, mad world. I felt embarrassed, humiliated by the crazy irrelevant details which outlined an absurd novel we seem to live in. Gladly, Swel confessed “I am very voyeur. When there’s a fight in the streets I like to watch.” I laughed thinking that is the most Romanian thing to do…
Photos by Swel Noury from Swel Photography
Swel Noury is a writer, director and photographer. Based in Barcelona, he co-directs his movies with his brother Imad. Since their directorial debut HEAVEN’S DOORS (shown in the Official selection of the Berlinale in 2006), Swel & Imad are widely regarded to be the enfants terribles of contemporary Moroccan cinema (Jim Jarmusch defines them as “visual troublemakers”).“THE MAN WHO SOLD THE WORLD” was also part of the Official Selection of the Berlinale 2009.
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- written for Reforma and firstly appeared on 11th of November, 2013 -
- interview with Michelle Gurevich Chinawoman is the girl no one dares to dance with at a party. She is beautiful, seductive, mysterious, even when she’s not singing. She dresses suitable, moves in a shy manner, balancing her body according to the music’s rhythm, she smiles to some random acquaintance, but she is somehow out of this world. This is because ‘she’s a natural’. We’re all like her, except we have lost our sincerity. We like Chinawoman because she speaks her mind. No, she’s not provocative by going into the taboo area. Her only taboo is speaking out of her soul in a society that struggles to hide its existing one.
Chinawoman in Warsaw, by Remi Rybicki.
Chinawoman: “I’m a natural”
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Chinawoman is Michelle Gurevich, a Canadian-born, Russian descendant musician. Comming from Toronto’s Russian neighborhood, her mother being a ballet dancer and his father an engineer from the former Leningrad, she grew up listening to her parents’ Soviet vinyls and the 70’s music. But you already knew all of that, or maybe you wouldn’t have come in such a large number at her concert, in Control Club. I met her at Bucharest Biennale 5; since then I got fascinated by this modest girl, which, instead of drinking herself to death while touring, she rather went to exhibitions and listened to ballads. After waking up from the trance only her authentic music could draw you into, we started talking a little… in the library of Pavilion, the art centre. You’ve moved from Toronto to Berlin. It’s been a while since you’re in Europe; how do you feel about it now, does it suit your Russian roots? Yes. It seems like my music is a little more familiar for people in Europe, maybe it fits better. I havent done that much in North America, maybe I’ll find out that there can be a good audience for it as well. But for now… Let’s say you live in some village and you are trying to make some sort of art and it’s not really taking off. In that case if you can find a place in the world where people like what you do then you’re a happy person. So I encourage people to leave the village and search for that place where they accept what you can offer.
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I’m happy that I’ve found the place where I can be a full time musician because right now if I lived in Canada I would just do music on the side. So what would you be doing in Canada? Probably I’d be doing what I was doing before – which is film editing. Maybe by now I would be doing… I don’t know… real estate or something (laughs). Or maybe I would have moved on… but a few years ago I was still film editing. I don’t miss it, maybe I would have found something else, but I am happy right now. Related to your origins, what do you think, is there the so-called Russian soul? If so, how or where does it show? Yes, there is something there; like a ‘united in sorrow’. But I don’t know if it’s a condition or if in a hundred years it won’t be there anymore. I guess it has to be something – based on history and culture. You know, I was raised with the Russian music and also language and humour have probably contributed to a mental style. So I definitely have this Russian soul in my music. It’s this kind of melancholy/celebration. The new single, “Pure at Heart” doesn’t quite follow the same editing style as before. In “Aviva” you made a choice for home-made video, while other musicians go for more polished video types. Why did you choose this type of aesthetics?
I would say that I prefer a more home-made aesthetic. This is slightly different. You know, the way I prefer an Italian wedding footage, rather than this kind of retro black and white thing. But it’s good as well and it works for the song. I think it’s a good thing to make things polish and push the boundaries and make it more beautiful and with substance. What I’m doing it’s like when you can eat with a fork but you’re going to eat with your hands because it’s nostalgic or something. And I encourage the others to do the same. If it’s done well it’s great. Chinawoman is very much about lyrics. Of course, the sound is very important too, you have to create a certain feel, so I’m curious, what comes first: lyrics or sound? The thing is there’s no rule. Some songs start with a sound. So I improvise, on piano or something and sometimes I find a melody which is cool and I record it and keep it for later and sometimes I’m thinking ‘this would be a good idea for a song; these words should be the main chorus’. At times is very methodical. It’s like I have 10 pieces of music and I have 10 ideas and I think which lyric should go with this. So that’s more like a calculated approach and sometimes the best is when everything comes together. There’s not a rule. But one thing that I never do – I never have the lyrics and make a melody out of them; never. It’s more like an idea but I would never take your interview and then sing a melody. I can’t do it.
Some people can, but I want the melody to be written even if my music is not so elaborated. The melody is not elaborated but it’s very specific. Your music has been described as Slavic, Soviet pop influenced or European ballads related. What about influences? Have you been drawn to something very musically different to what you have done before? Well, lately I’ve been in Berlin, listening to some electronic music, so there has been an influence already with the stuff I am producing now. It’s definitely gone a little faster and it’s a little more electronic. So it has an influence but I am trying to moderate it because I don’t want to go too much in that direction. But there’s a possibility that my third album will be leaning a little bit that way and maybe after that I’ll come back to the origins. But it’s like I can’t help it; it just happens on its own. The songs are a little faster, there’s more of a beat. Right now there’s more of that but I don’t think that’s ultimately what I want to do. Turning back to your earlier music, are you a party girl? The song is literally about being a party girl but it’s also about how the party girl can be a real estate agent. The idea is that you are trying to present something to the world meanwhile inside you’re insecure or still a child. So the party girl is… a façade.
Yes, like the person you develop to get along in the world. You formulate some kind of a character. It’s literally about the party girl, but it’s generally about the character you formulate versus the person inside. Feelings, death, our own place in society, are current themes in your songs, which seem to really resonate with your audience. Why do people relate so well to this dark side? They want to eat out this misery. Some people are drawn to it and some are not. There’s something for everybody. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s some kind of exorcising these dark feelings for them. Yes. Actually before I started, I was hanging out with some musicians. And there was this girl who was writing these really dark songs and I felt she could say anything, she could say things that I felt that you weren’t supposed to say. And I was jealous. Well, not necessarily jealous, but I found it so cool; the fact that she could say these things that I felt they were shameful to say. And when I started to write music I realized that these things that you feel ashamed of, you could actually use them; you could make a career out of your shame. Like turning upside down. Let’s say I’m having an idea for a song and I think ‘that song will probably get me into trouble’ – that’s when I know that it’s going to be a good song. That’s the criteria to decide if the song makes it or not.
Yes, if it would get me in trouble, if I feel a little uncomfortable at first. People love that kind of songs that say uncomfortable things. Yes, when you hear something like that and suddenly you smile. Yeah, the usual ‘oh, I thought that too, but I couldn’t name it.’ I know you are passionate about film; have you ever thought of scoring a film or producing a soundtrack? Also, do film images inspire you to produce something new? So far they haven’t inspired me. I’m not a visual person. It’s funny because I like films, but I am not visual. There might be a scene in a film, a feeling, but just that. In terms of writing soundtracks I have been invited a few times and I’ve thought about it, but I definitely don’t want to do scores. Like ‘here, you have an hour and a half of here we need a country western, and here we need a classical.’ This doesn’t appeal to me. I know people that do it and they just have to pump out music. Most of the musicians you’ve often mentioned come from this film area, Nino Rota, who created such a beautiful music for Fellini’s movies, Charles Aznavour, Vincent Gallo, who also makes music for his own movies, what do you think, how much does the music count? Can a good music “save” a bad image or the other way around?
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You often hear a song and say ‘oh, I don’t like the video’ and basically you just ignore it. Good music will surely make a good film better but I don’t know about the whole saver thing. I was quite surprised that your favorite director is Federico Fellini. Indeed, there’s something about Fellini’s sad, yet musical authentic movies that fits your style, you also remind me of Giulietta Masina’s sad humor. Still, how do you feel about Russian filmmakers? You know, it’s funny because I’ve barely explored Russian cinema. Which is a kind of a strange thing. I’ve had trouble at understanding them at times. I mean, my Russian is pretty good and I can understand people. I’ve seen only a few. It sounds so existentialist, “lovers are strangers”; the existence of the Other is always problematic, so what’s better, being with others or actually enjoying loneliness? Well, I definitely like to be alone a lot. I never get enough time on my own. That’s a good thing. I think that people who are ok with themselves alone are quite interesting people. Because if you can never get bored of yourself that’s something. Oh I do get bored of myself anyway… but I like a lot of silence and space to think. But in the same time, when I see couples who can tolerate each other for a long time, I think they did the right thing. Because ultimately those experiences with people are the most meaningful in your life – like relationships. So let’s say that you spent one year with your lover and you were at times fighting or going crazy – it’s those times that you’ll remember; they’re special. So I do have the tendency to be on my own and I think this can only go so far. It’s good and it’s part of a healthy balanced diet, but as soon as you butt against another person you pull an ‘ugh… I don’t like it, bye!’ it’s easier. And when you become a senior citizen, an older person and you’ve kept doing that in your life, you end up feeling that something is missing. So, to stay with someone for a long time means to make compromises and it also means that there’s going to be a lot of headache but ultimately I think it’s for a better existence. So this compromise with the other makes you who you are? Well, it’s only through those interactions you truly learn about yourself – you can improve; or otherwise you can always stay by yourself and think you are perfect. You evolve a lot more when you interact with people. Not just by meeting them for a coffee and then say goodbye but you have to spend time with them.
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To show the other side of the “party girl”. Yes, it’s like if we’ll stay in this room for a week – you have to get past many points. You can’t just show your exterior and then get into an argument. You might discover that ‘actually I’m like this and you’re like that and maybe we should try it like this.’ So, ultimately, I like to be alone a lot, but I think those really hardcore relations with people, after you overcome barriers, are the most important things in life. To end in an optimistic mood, “it doesn’t matter what you create if you have no fun”. So I’m asking you, after 2 albums, are you having fun?
Chinawoman “To be with others” album cover
I’m having a lot of fun right now – enjoying being a musician, living in Europe. But I shouldn’t have too much fun because then my music will suffer. Yes, I have to enjoy my life right now because I think this is a good time; this age, and having freedom to travel – so I can’t complain. Because you can never know how long will things last or if you’ll be healthy, or this or that… so right now I am trying to enjoy what is going on… I’m having fun.
- written for Reforma and firstly appeared on 19th of November, 2012 -
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Rabble with a Cause - On Music and Civil Disobedience with The Ex _11_
Ok, I confess. I thought punk is so outdated, only Vivienne Westwood still belived in it. Fortunately, she’s not the last of the Mohicans, and hearing The Ex last week in concert, pleased me even more. I’ve arrived in Control Club too early and talked with a bunch of people. Always, the same reaction: Oh you wanna interview them? Well, girl, they’re quite hardcore…and they gave me the look. I’ve listened to a lot of punk music myself in my youth, done hitchhiking to listen to NOFX and The Exploited, marched to modest Antifa movements in Bucharest, even shocked the little town I lived in by wearing spikes. But apart from all that, all the stereotypes the movement came with, I’ve learned a lot about the power of the people, I’ve listened to bands like Fugazi (which sounds a bit like The Ex) and learned about Noam Chomsky from anticapitalist lyrics. The classic rebel youth, you’ll say. But The Ex are nothing like that. Punk bands DO read. Punk bands don’t call themselves punk any more. The Ex is a band with a lot of influences; I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find out how jazz and drone fit with protest lyrics or how improvisation can lead you to combine ethnic music, an almost dead genre you’d say, with something else and create something new, something refreshing. So, no, not at all a brainless band for rebels without a cause, but guitarists who read Marshall McLuhan on tour and care about the world we live in.The concert was simple, no special outfits, no visuals. Just a band. But what an energy! Below it’s the outcome, a talk I’ve had with Arnold de Boer (vocals, guitar, samples) afterwards.
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Andreea Pătru: You’re often associated with anarcho-punk because of your late 70’s music, but clearly there are many more influences in your music. Still, we’ve heard the quote: “Punk’s not dead” so many times in different contexts. What do you think, how do you visualize punk music today? Has it reached its limits, or is there something more that can be done?
Arnold: no, not at all. I mean, being afraid should never be part of making music, making art. It’s far better to have fun and be surprised than be afraid, and especially with music, because with music you are able to create a universe where anything is possible, and being afraid is something very far of it. You should feel free and open. It really has been great, going to Ethiopia and playing with these musicians is amazing and really inspiring, and as far Arnold de Boer: The way that you do things is as there’s an identity, it is continually changing, also connected to the way that you do music; even in Romania. It is not some kind of marketthe way that we eat is connected to the way ing programmed and shaped band, definitely. we do music. If that is interesting for other Members of the band have been changed over people, and if that is political for other people, 33 years, people change, so the music will then is for all the other people that want to find change. Otherwise it would be boring too, and out what it is about. And if they want to label it, we don’t like boring. to say that that’s left wing, or that’s anarchist, or that’s social, democratic, whatever, that’s Andreea: Also, how do you choose the people for them to find out and not to stop thinking; you’re working with? At first sight, jazz music that’s the most important thing. It’s nice to and brass doesn’t quite fit with protest. make music for people to dance, and it’s nice to make music for people to think. And that’s Arnold (laughs): They chose me, I’m the last as far as the lyrics go. It’s a form of poetry and one who came in the band, 4 years ago, but I it’s great if people don’t stop at the end of the think when it gets stuck at one point, when song and say “that’s it” and instead start hav- someone has no inspiration at all, then the “old” ing new ideas. We sometimes receive emails singers say “I don’t have the inspiration to conthat request us the lyrics and that’s great, be- tinue, so I’m gonna leave the band”, and the cause that’s what you want to do with art. other band members asked me. In a way you become a new band, because that’s a new eleAndreea: Apart from other bands, you’ve col- ment, like me, and I bring a guitar and some laborated a lot with many artists that were electronics and my own words and lyrics and way of singing, and we have 4 people interactquite known in their own fields, to mention Steve Albini, Tom Cora; were’t you afraid that ing with each other in different ways. It’s an engine for making music again. In the last 4 years these collaborations would change or affect we made an album and some new songs. the identity of the band?
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Andreea: Yeah, and a constant to your music always remained propaganda. Hence the name of tonight’s other band, Bernays Propaganda… You’ve sung a lot about it and other issues the society has to cope with. What is radical for you? To be more specific, we are coping with many radical aspects of the state’s intervention; even our own privacy is threatened, so what is a radical intervention for you and what is acceptable? Arnold: Wow, wow, that`s a very political question in a way, because what I said before is the personal way of doing things on a local level, having interaction to do things together, for me is radical. If you do things without any power structure or just with people that you find a connection with, you try to create what is possible. Doing this thing without sponsorship or advertising money or whatever, doing it together with individual human beings, you can call it radical, because it doesn`t happen so much anymore. People are getting locked in some sort of media network that makes them do no local connection. In the Netherlands we have the right wing government with the protofascists almost doing part of the government. At this point you see people from outside of Europe come here and fear that people have decided to vote for this guys. On the other hand, if you sit down in the park and speak with all kinds of people, you can find out that they usually want to help others and work together on stuff. This is a basic ingredient in human beings.
We are based on the idea that people like to help each other for doing things together, they don`t need government and don`t need to be scared because they have the power to conquer these kinds of things. Andreea: Your name is related to the anarchist squats from The Netherlands from the late ‘70 and to resistance movements. How do you think that these occupy movements that were very popular lately, would affect the political reality we’re living in? Are they taken seriously or what is the solution to be taken seriously? Arnold: It`s so hard to explain, because a year ago everyone was talking about it and now nobody is. At one point you ask yourself what is it: a spectacle, a media event, for people to twitter and facebook about it? It`s crazy how fast people give in in a way. They couldn`t fight them. So they went back to a local level, to fight the building of a new highway, not the big sharks. In New York, if you saw how hard the police was involved, it was a wonder that people could maintain it. I hope we inspire people on an individual level. It maybe won`t work on Wall Street, but it will work somewhere else. So I`m sure that the occupy movement inspired people. How it came into the media was very strange, but how the media stopped writing about it was even stranger. Andreea: So if the media doesn’t write about it, it doesn’t exist or what? Arnold (takes a book out of his bag): Now I’m reading this one, The Gutenberg Galaxy. Andreea: Oh, Marshall McLuhan, haha “the high priest of pop culture”, it’s how he’s called. Yeah, he’s a classic on communication & media studies. Arnold: It’s amazing how close he is to things which are happening now. The returning to the tribal society from the modern one is a very interesting way of putting things. With the connection of everybody to everybody. Andreea: Yeah the Global Village. Arnold: Facebook is the Global Village. So, if nobody in the village talks about it, it doesn’t exist.
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Andreea (laughs): It’s like the 15 minutes of fame that Andy Warhol talked about, Well, I work in the contemporary art field, so these lyrics appealed to me most: “We need poets, we need painters/We need poets, we need painters/We need poetry and paintings”. What is the role of art – in this global context?
And that is really amazing because it’s like how the blues musicians were sitting in a garden, on a crate of beer, with the people around us and if they know the song, they would just sing together. So what will the role be in the end? Andreea: Brings people together.
Arnold: Sorry to quote it again, Marshall McLuhan…it’s amazing what he was saying about the people from Bali…When they were asked by the anthropologists ‘what is your art’ they said ‘we don’t have that, we don’t have art. We just try to do everything as good as possible, and to make everything as beautiful as possible’ - which is an amazing quote in a way because it makes you think about how much has art become outside a museum. Because it would be nice and more interesting if the meaning of art had a direct connection with all the other aspects of your life. Andreea: You say art should be engaged in our everyday life.
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Arnold: I’m not saying that everyone has to be an artist because consequently no one could be an artist… what I mean is that you have a voice to express and it’s great if it’s not too far away from daily life. Ok: we were playing in this room; and we were standing on a stage because that way more people could see us; but we were not so far from the people and it was possible to actually communicate with the audience. They were dancing, and that made us dance - it was an exchange of energy which was great.
Arnold: Yes. But it also makes you think! Thinking is important, having your own mind, independent – which is in a way against being online all the time, because when everybody gets the same message, it makes everybody think the same thing. If the media is continuously feeding you the same kind of information, then everybody will end up thinking the same thing. So I don’t like to be connected all the time, instead I want to read a book and have my own thoughts about it. So apart from dancing to music which has more to do with feelings, thinking, having your own ideas that can shape you. This is what I like the most about art. And you? Andreea: I think quite alike. Contemporary art is also about that; it’s socially engaged. Of course there’s the aesthetics – we couldn’t call it art without that. But I think that context is more important today. You cannot create without the context we live in, and without interacting with other people. Arnold: I think you’re right - the whole idea of a game in a way. There’s a Dutch anthropologist philosopher Johan Huizinga, who wrote a book called “Homo Ludens”.
Andreea: Ah, Johan Huizinga, yeah. It’s translated in Romanian as well. “Homo Ludens” – “The man who plays” from Latin. Arnold: Homo Ludens is a lot about language, of how words are connected. He connects what people do with the game and the rules become the way of playing and the interactions between people. Andreea: So do you see DIY as a viable answer to contemporary consumerism? Arnold: I see term DIY as a part of contemporary consumerism. Because I think a lot of companies, for example IKEA, are now advertising DIY. And this whole idea of what they try to do, you can also see it in the way of making music. For example MySpace – people really saw MySpace as a DIY sort of item because you can put your own music online and advertise yourself and you can sell it and you can get the money, while it is owned by Rupert Murdoch and it’s actually a corporation. All the big corporations are using the idea of DIY to individualize and make money from people that are doing their jobs. So I think the word DIY doesn’t connect anymore with the ideas I was telling you about at the beginning of this interview. I think it’s much more based on doing things together but on a local, normal and non-corporate level. So, what we are doing for example: we are touring all over Europe, and also America, we just came from Brazil and we even played in Africa.
So it becomes some sort of underground network. A lot of people all over Europe organizing shows, making music, having small record labels, selling things, whatever, making posters like the guys tonight- all these kind of things. It’s not DIY, it might sound a bit cheesy, but it’s Do It Together.The whole idea of DIY – the corporations can have it because I don’t think that it covers any more what we are doing. By the time we reached the last question, we were interrupted by their tight schedule and the freezing cold and quickly concluded: The Ex will do the same. Do It Together. With a lot of other artists that share their thoughts and inspire them. They’ll celebrate 33 years of music. How: Forward In All Directions. (Andreea Pătru)
Image 1: Andreea Pătru and Arnold de Boer by Alexandru Constantin Image 2: The Ex, Bucharest, by Valeriu Cătălineanu, courtesy of Control Club Image 3: Arnold de Boer, Bucharest, by Dana Grigore - written for Reforma and firstly appeared on 30th of October, 2012 -
andreea.patru89@gmail.com
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