Xia Xiaowan "Painting from the Inside" by LAB

在画里

Xia Xiaowan

夏小万

Painting From The Inside

CONTENTS

在画里—夏小万访谈录 Painting From The Inside – Interview with Xia Xiaowan

玻璃作品 Works on Glass

纸上作品 Works on Paper

简历 Biography

出版文献 Publications

本画册为夏小万个展《在画里》而出版发行 2006年9月9日至10月14日于北京麦勒画廊展出 This Catalogue was published on the occasion of Xia Xiaowan’s solo exhibition: Painting From The Inside at Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing, from September 9 to October 14, 2006

感谢：陈卉, 丁达韦, 彭加汉, 李红卫, Christiane Leister, Sammlung Goetz

Acknowledgements: Chen Hui, David Spalding, Kirk Kenny, Li Hongwei, Christiane Leister and Sammlung Goetz

在画里 — 夏小万访谈录

Painting From The Inside 采访者：箫岭(Nataline Colonnello)

– Interview with Xia Xiaowan

被访者：夏小万

2006年8月11日，北京

箫岭（以下简称箫）：除了写实作品和油画作品之外，你好像三、四年前就开始做一些玻璃材质的作品。据我了解，刚开始你可能遇到了一些处理新材料的问题。从画家的角度来讲，你能不能说一下选择和处理不同材料的想法。夏小万（以下简称夏）：从作画本身来说没有太大的区别。因为传统的平面绘画也同样遇到不同材料的问题。在处理不同材料的时候，手底下所书写的那个感觉是不一样的，所以不管是用玻璃还是其他材质，这点没有太大的区别。区别其实仅仅是呈现的问题，即最后的呈像，因为现在是借助一种技术使图像实现在空间当中，最后的效果是不同的。箫：你的玻璃作品立体感很强，甚至可以说是一种“绘画雕塑”。我想知道的是，你是怎么看待并处理这两种作品（立体的和平面的）的物质空间的？夏：很早以前我就注意到绘画的性质问题，它里面可分为两部分的内容：一部分内容是它的呈像结果，这个呈现结果在平面上更多反映的是一种图像的意义，在不同位置、不同比例关系当中，构成了图像；另一部分内容是绘画的行为属性，是体现在痕迹意义上，是传达人的心里活动的痕迹。我一直在想，绘画行为是不是只属于平面上的，那么，人在空间当中书写的、比划的行为，是不是也是绘画呢？箫：你的这些玻璃作品，从心里上或精神上来讲，跟观众有什么独特的互动关系？夏：我觉得从直观上来看，这种空间绘画与平面绘画有很大的区别，因为从痕迹概念来判断人的书写，这个痕迹本身，你说它有没有、是什么，这很难说。因此它跟雕塑是不一样的。雕塑是造型的概念，它是把一个有质量却是无形的东西变成一个有形有质量的东西。而绘画只是一个纯粹的书写痕迹。痕迹这个东西有点“虚”，只是一种反映心理投射的行为迹象。但是，在空间绘画当中，当痕迹变成为一个有质量的结合体的时候，即把很多心理投射的痕迹关系组合在一起的时候，它会形成一个很巨大的质量感，但是这个质量感却没有丢失掉它原本的“虚”的性质。它还是很“虚”的，它还是一种心理投射迹象，而不是说人们真的相信这个东西是存在的。所以这个结果反映在视觉上是不同的，你说它“实”吧，空间虽然被占据了，但是它的材质、它的物质属性，却不能改变你的判断，你 4

还是仅仅从心理角度去感受和解读这些作品。箫：在你作品当中现实主义占了多大的成分？夏：应该说在画这种空间绘画之前，我早期的作品中有现实的成分，它可能对现实的意图是比较大的，从八十年代末到九十年代初那段时期更为明显，早期的作品从思想意义、精神意义上跟现实有更多的直接的关系。到现在这个阶段，这个内容已经成为一个“已有”的东西了，我觉得在直接针对现实方面就没有太大的关系。应该说那已是一些应该有结论的东西，包括表现人性的扭曲，人的身体的束缚感等等，这一类主题都不属于我自己独特的体会，它们只不过是些固定的主题罢了。箫：我们可不可以说任何一个所谓的现实作品，通过它的审美处理，都会改变那个原本的现实？夏：这就是我想的问题。我们认为什么是现实，它有什么结果我们不去说它，我更关心的是这个结果是怎么来的，我们经过什么原理得到这个结果，经过什么观察原理、思考原理、逻辑原理得到的这个结论。实际上我是在做基础的课题，我想的是“什么才是真实？”，更多的是这些。箫：在你写的一篇文章1 里，你说过西方世界的艺术传统是随着现实主义和科学的发展而受到影响，但是亚洲国家的艺术受到的更多是抽象主义的影响。这两种传统的区别你能不能多说点？而且，你曾经说过看平面的作品时只需要用一只眼，但是看立体作品需要两只眼。这个概念请你解释一下。夏：我以前想过这个关于真实的视像问题。因为写实绘画是西方的一个传统，看上去它似乎是艺术的主张，伴随艺术发展的过程产生了这样的一个命题，最后也的确创造了一些客观的成果。但是，我一直认为关于视像的研究是个科学的命题。科学的命题就不应该纯粹的从一个艺术本身的角度来认识。就比如说两个视点的问题，从投影技术发现开始，因为透过玻璃可以将自然物体的形状描摹在玻璃板上，这图像看上去就是客观的，但是这里其实已经把观看者的双视点与“摄像”功能的单视点之间的误差给模糊掉了。实际上投影学的制像原理就是以单视点假设为前提的，也因此它的图像才可能具有准确性。后来发现的透视学同样是遵循这一原理，始终是在一个单视点假设前提上，而与用两眼观看的视觉误差就被模糊掉了。

by: Nataline Colonnello and Xia Xiaowan Beijing, August 11, 2006

Nataline Colonnello: Besides your drawings on paper and your oil paintings on canvas, which still constitute a weighty part of your work, three or four years ago you started experimenting with working on glass and as I understand it, at the beginning, approaching the new mediums proved a bit challenging. From an artist’s point of view, can you comment on working with different mediums? Xia Xiaowan: As far as the artistic process itself goes, there is no huge difference. Even with traditional, two-dimensional paintings there is the issue of choosing and working with different mediums. And in the process of working with any new medium - the actual hands on part of the process - there is quite literally a different feeling. So the challenge that you mention is not exclusive to going from two-dimensional painting to working on glass - it can exist within one form or medium as well. The only real difference is one of presentation, the final product as it were. Essentially by working with glass I’m applying a new technique whereby the works are suspended in air. The final result, or visual effect, of course, is different. NC:

Your works on glass have a 3-dimensional quality and might even be called a kind of “pictorial sculpture.” How do you approach the material space in these works, and the absence of it on a two-dimensional surface?

XXW: From way back, I began thinking about the fundamental nature of painting. This question has two components I think. On the one hand, there is the issue of presentation or representation – what a painting looks like when it’s finished. On a flat, two-dimensional surface presenting something is often largely an issue of form or image: physical space, proportion... these create a certain image. But the other aspect of painting is a behavioral component – that is, painting as an action, as an event. In this sense, painting can be said to be a process of communication whereby the viewer is affected at some psychological or emotional level. For myself, I’ve been grappling with the question of whether or not painting is something limited to twodimensions for some time. By creating a work that is suspended inair, the physical act and process of creating such a piece - can this still be considered painting? NC: What, if any, different psychological impact do these new works have on the viewer? XXW: First of all, I think that these recent works of mine, being suspended in-air, involve a very different process of sensual perception and observation than do traditional, two - dimensional works. Take drawing or sketching – conceptually it is really hard pin it down and say definitively what it is. This is very different from sculpture, for example, which is essentially a matter of creating a physical mold, taking something with mass but no shape and making it into something with both shape and mass. Painting or drawing, in its essence, is simply the act of sketching a contour or outline. A contour, in and of itself, is something quite “empty” or “vague;” I suppose it’s the product of

a process of a kind of psychological or emotional projection onto a medium. As for my suspended glass works, when the different layers of painted glass are assembled and put together, they create a really strong sense of physical mass. And yet, despite this overwhelming sense of mass or material space, they still maintain that “emptiness” quality of painting or drawing that I just referred to, and that’s because these glass works are also the result of mental or emotional projection. I think that it’s clear to the observer that these works aren’t reflecting some objective existence so much as a psychological landscape, and thus the result in these new works involves a different sensory experience. As for how “real” they are... well... they obviously take up physical space but it’s not this physical quality which influences our viewing experience because we ultimately interact with these works exclusively at an emotional level. NC: Could you comment on the extent to which realism is a part of your work? XXW: Prior to this set of suspended glass works I’d have to say that my early pieces certainly contained elements of realism, or at least there was the intention of exploring reality. This trend was especially noticeable in my works during the late 80s to early 90s. Looking back on my works from that period, there was a very direct connection between, or attempt to combine, mental and spiritual meaning with reality, whereas now it’s a feature that I would say is already present and inherent in my work. I don’t see my works as directly or consciously exploring reality, because the themes I’m interested are themes for which there are already conclusions or theories available. My representations of distorted figures, where it is hard to tell the gender, or of the constrained human bodies – these are themes I’m exploring, but certainly not from some unique vantage point. These are simply fixed themes. NC: Couldn’t it be said that in any realist work there is an alteration of reality through esthetics? XXW: This is an idea I’ve been grappling with. As for what reality is, what its outcome might be, we needn’t really say. I suppose my real interest is how that outcome is reached; what are the factors or principles that lead to that outcome? For example, the principles of observation, contemplation and logic invariably influence what outcome we reach. But I suppose I’m raising more questions for discussion than I’m answering... but in fact I’m actually very preoccupied with the idea of what reality is. NC: In your article, “Some Thoughts about Space Paintings,” recently published in The Illustrated Magazine for World Knowledge, you wrote that Western art had been influenced by the development of realism and science whereas in Asia there was more a tradition of abstraction. Can you comment on this? As well, you also mentioned that for two-dimensional works we only need to use one eye, but for three-dimensional works we need to use both eyes.1 Can you explain

箫：你怎么能够把物质的客观的世界和精神世界结合在一起呢？夏：我觉得精神层面是很多的。任何一个简单或复杂的事物都可以反映人的精神。我们说真实再现客观事物是个纯粹的物理结果，它是一种投影原理。但是我觉得观看从来都不是一个单一的视觉的事情。汉语里有一个词叫“观察”，它不叫“看”。 “看”是个物理现象，科学可以拿它来作为一种技术功能对象开发。但是我觉得在艺术的角度，虽然我可以使用一些真实的，直观的呈现，但是这个直观跟功能性的科学研发相比是不同的。箫：你的作品里面好像总是涉及到变形这么一个主题，而且你的创作过程可以分为几个阶段：分析、组装、切割、重新的组装。一方面，我觉得这有点接近于尸检的过程，有点象丹米恩·荷斯特（Damien Hirst）的“切牛”，他是把切成块的动物标本放在玻璃箱里然后悬挂在空中。他的作品好像是针对蜕变、死亡这些主题，而且也是挑战艺术，自然科学和流行文化之间的边界。同时，他的艺术是想探索一些存在和宗教之类的问题。我看你作品时我会想到中国哲学。按照传统东方的世界观宇宙是个整体，是个固有的自然生式的东西，它得遵守一些自然、内在的变化的规律而不是被什么外在的力量所控制住。有 2 这个“气”是世界万物一种跨心里和物理的力量叫做“气” 。的生命之源。这种力量随着各种各样的动物和植物的成长和衰变而得到不同的体现，而不同的体现就意味着不同的阴阳比例。“气”作为一切生命不可缺少的部分在传统的中医里，是个很重要的基础，因为中医很看重身体部位之间的微妙关系，而不太把身体的一个部位功能看成一个独立的东西。在这么一个背景之下我觉得西方和东方艺术和科学的关系变的更有意思。无论是在中医或中国哲学中，阴和阳是相反的，同时也是不可分开的，他们是一个整体。这点使我想到“魂”和“魄” 关系。因为你的玻璃作品中有“魂”和“魄”，这跟我刚才说到的哲学或中医学有没有关系？夏：这个问题比较难说。因为我肯定借用的是科技的东西，用日常经验可以解读的造型都跟科学有关系。人要活下来这个命题本身就是科学的、是物理的，是人本能里就确定的一个基准。观察本身也是科学的，包括平面写实绘画所触及的也全都是科学原理：投影学、解剖学、透视学等等，这些问题都是科学的。我是比较喜欢，也会尝试把问题抽象化，那样用常规的经验就没法解读了，但写实似乎就可以，因为它与我们生存的情景不遥远。我现在只是在写实绘画中加入了一个切片技术，通过这个技术使被描绘的对象在空间中更接近我们眼中的视像。至于说到中国的道家文化，这个问题比较深，我回答不出来。箫：你的很多作品里面的人体好像都是无形的、比较模糊的， “蜕”是个很好的例子。无论是在比喻意义上或颜色和材质的处理和选择上，你的作品里面的人物好像都有种失重感。夏：我想我要解决的出发点是以绘画原有可以表达的视觉强度为基准的，比如说平面绘画它能够表示清楚的内容，希望在我的空间绘画中这些清楚的内容同样能够不损失。如果它是一个过于实在的东西就好像我仅仅是为了创造一个尸体，那我可能就不会用这种材料，不会用透明材料，不会用素描的方式。因为用油画的方式它可以使这个物体变得更实在。但是我始终喜欢绘 6

画里面的那种不断的叠加过程，不断停留在一个问题上，意识的过程以描画的方式在不断地叠加上去。其实在平面绘画里就能体会到这种过程，不会说画第一层画家还不知道要干什么，而这种作用在空中绘画里面能够反映得更好，所以我选择了这种材料。关于形的变化变异这个问题如果仅仅是要创造一个客观真实的造型，这就可能只是个技术问题，是个纯粹的呈像问题了，而我希望这里面艺术原本的关于造型发展的各种可能性不要丢失掉。箫：你的作品里面常常以人体为主题，但是按照公众标准来看这些人体都显得挺丑的。这是为什么？你的作品可不可以说采用了一种“丑审美？” 夏：是这样的：丑和美这两个概念它是一个一贯下来的公共标准，这个标准在艺术当中往往是不适用的，一些艺术家采取完全相悖的立场，你要美而我就要丑。但是我觉得我不是这样的，我选择表现人体作为一个基本点，这是我们自己的生长在我们眼皮底下的身体，我们对这个身体的了解，有种确认感，我体验过的东西我相信它是真的，或我触摸过的东西是有的，这是一个基准。那么这个基准就作为我的审美前提，在这点我还是跟中国的传统哲学或美学有些相通的地方，即我不想成为对立面：你说美我却要丑，丑和美正好是相反的，实际上是因美为标准才称之为丑。中国古代还有一种看法叫似与不似之间，似是而非，也就是说，看上去它跟真实有关系，但是表面上又不象它，找这个点，象和不象之间的关系，这个关系是我喜欢的。因此我画中表现的还是人体的造型，而这个人体用我们现在的通常概念来看它有点象异形，病态罢了。作为美或丑的变形，是可以从社会角度去认识它的，可以说这是人对形的认识概念在变化，但是这其中还有艺术本身的东西。这个空间是比较有意思的，对艺术家来说，太象了，不是艺术的空间，太不象了，又是一种社会的空间，老是找不到属于自己的空间。箫：我不知道你熟悉不熟悉法国超现实主义艺术家汉斯·贝尔莫 (Hans Bellmer 1902-1975）？他同样在他的场景素描，油画和雕塑作品中喜欢以人体为主题。但是为了表现出来一些下意识的冲动，主要是跟性有关的冲动，他重新的组装了人的身体部位。按照他的理论，人体的结构是跟心里学和超数学的原理有关系的。3 你的作品当然是不一样的，但是我很想知道你是怎么看待这么一种方法的，他的作品跟你的作品有没有相通的地方。夏：实际上在很多当代的艺术里面共同使用着一种方法，即概念转换，就是把固定的概念打破重新组装，这种方法可能是当代艺术发展必然的一个结果。但是我比较谨慎，单从观念的角度使用偷换思维概念的技巧去做艺术品，因为可能有些早年的经验让我始终认为这种观念艺术看上去它是非常前端，它好像有一种表面看来非常重要的渗透力，因为它涉及到政治问题它可以直接进入到跟政治非常相近的领域，但是我仍无法下结论说这是艺术的问题。我这里说的“政治”不是指简单的狭义的政治概念，它实际上是指政治社会对艺术观念影响的问题，是把施政技巧和概念偷换作为手段去完成任务，怎么协调、怎么做妥协，才能争取到最终的时效作用。我是比较谨慎的，因为我只关心绘画自身的问题，我认为绘画是直现的艺术，跟我们的身体是最有关系的，是最直接的呈现，它无需借助那么多复杂的背景，也许我在这些方面确实有自己的局限。

this concept a bit more? XXW: A while ago I was contemplating what a realistic visual image implied. Because realistic sketching from nature is a Western tradition it seems to stand for what art is or should be. This tradition, following the developments of science, continued to assert itself as a kind of artistic standard or goal and certainly led to a better understanding of objectivity. But I’ve always felt that how we perceive visual images is more the domain of science than something to be tackled simply from the realm of art. Let us consider, for example, that most of us perceive things with two eyes. Following advances made in the science of light projection, it was discovered that as light passed though glass it lent itself well to tracing the shape of various animals and scientific specimens on the glass surface. The resulting image, while appearing to be objective, in fact was the result of someone with two eyes, two lines of vision, filling in and blurring the gaps between these two lines of vision with one line of vision, something like a movie camera. In fact, the principles involved in light projection, when creating or recreating an image, operate on the premise of a single line of vision, and it is because of this principle that the image achieves its accuracy. Later, with the discovery and development of fields such as fluoroscopy, the principle of a single line of vision was critical – it was recognized as a sort of natural law. So, by combining the viewer’s two fields of vision with this single field of vision apparatus, any visual gap is filled in. NC:

How can you combine both objectivity and universality?

XXW: I think there is a lot of depth of meaning and interpretation to what might be considered universal. Any object, no matter how simple or complicated can reflect the human spirit. In art, we can say that realistically representing an object, seeking representational objectivity, is quite simply the result of a series of physics principles at work. Again, for example, there is the principle of visual projection. That said, I’ve never thought that observation is simply a matter of physical vision. In Chinese, we have the word “observation,” which is a little different from “watch.” “Watching” is more of a phenomenon belonging to physics; science can apply and develop it as a kind of guideline for technical function. But as far as art goes, as an artist, even though I can seek to present things realistically or through direct observation, it’s not the same as when applied in the realm of scientific research and development. NC:

Your works deal with a transformation of forms and involve a process of painting on different layers and putting them together: a process of analysis, construction, deconstruction and re-assembly. On the one hand, they remind me of something resembling an autopsy, a dissection, in a way something similar to Damien Hirst’s sawn corpses of animals suspended in formaldehyde and preserved into glass showcases. If through those kind of works the British artist confronts decay, death and mortality by challenging the boundaries between art, science and popular culture, at the same time he also tackles questions of an existential and religious character. When looking at your works, on the other hand, I’m also reminded of Chinese philosophy. According to classical East Asian cosmology and the idea of the oneness of the world, the universe is ‘immanent’, autogenerative, dynamic and ordered by a regular change and continuity that are inherent to the world itself and not derived or imposed upon it by an independent power. It is the endless flux of qi - the psychophysical, universal vital energy of every living organism and the source of all movement and change in the universe- that, in a never-ending process of transformation, subtly pervades the world by disposing itself in various configurations and concentrations of yin and yang.2 Additionally, if we consider that qi is also conceived as ‘healing energy’ and is one of the basis of Chinese traditional medical thought, where human physiology is not organized according to specialized functions, but is more focused on dynamics of interrelationship, especially in terms of patterns of vital energy, the differences and parallelisms between the conception of art and science in the Western and Eastern world are even more interesting. In Chinese philosophy and medicine, moreover, yin and yang are the two great opposing forces forming an inseparable unit, the dynamic of which is connected to the Hun/Po model. I am wandering whether there is any relationship between this thought

and the fact that you called two of your glass works after the name of “Descending Soul” (“Descending Soul No. 1”, 2005, and “Descending Soul No. 2”, 2006) (in Chinese, ‘Po’ ). “Po” is a technical term indicating the yin and more physical aspect of the spirit, the ‘heavier’ and more corporeal souls that are supposed to return to the earth at the time of physical death of a person, and this oppositely to the Hun, or “ascending souls”, which having a yang, lighter and more ethereal nature, are supposed to leave the corpse and go back to the subtle realms. Any thoughts? XXW: That’s kind of difficult to answer. Certainly I’ve borrowed some things from science – I mean being able to decipher shape or form is itself closely connected to science. Human life, in fact, is governed by scientific principles; it’s a matter of physics, a determined component of our being. Observation is also a scientific matter, as is the process of painting or sketching from nature – it involves projection, anatomy, fluoroscopy and so on. These are all essentially matters of science. I also enjoy playing around with abstraction, but for viewing such works, we can’t really rely on conventional experience to decipher them, whereas for realistic sketches or paintings it seems as though we can. Scenes from nature or scenes that are familiar, presented in a more still-life tradition, are more accessible because they are not so far removed from our daily life. All I’ve done in these recent works is added a kind of layered dimension to the tradition of painting from nature. With this technique, essentially what I’m doing is portraying an object in-air and thus making it more accessible to the visual senses. As for Chinese philosophy or the Taoist concepts you mentioned – that’s a pretty deep, open-ended question, more than I can answer. NC: Many of your works feature shapeless figures, which are kind of blended together. “Slough,” (2006) for example, includes the idea of the shell of an insect, an ecdysis, and implies a process of exuviation. It seems that both metaphorically and in terms of the colors and medium, there is a kind of weightlessness, something ethereal in your works. XXW: I think the point I’m trying to address is to try and heighten the visual process or sensation of looking at a painting. On the one hand, I hope that the clarity of the subject matter that we often associate with twodimensional painting isn’t lost in these three-dimensional works. If it is too realistic, however, then it’s as if I’m simply trying to recreate the form of a human body. If that were my goal I would be better off using different materials and techniques and certainly not a transparent medium like glass or simple sketches. Oil paintings, for example, would be much more effective for creating a sense of realism. What I do like, though, is the sense of folding or layering a series of sketches; I like to take my time and stay with one subject. Consciousness (for me), in an artistic sense, is essentially a process of pondering one thing via a layer of several sketches. In two-dimensional works there is a sense of this process – it’s not that the artist doesn’t know what he / she wants to create after an initial treatment, but rather, that these suspended, inair works, with the different stages laid out for viewing, achieve a more striking result. This is why I’ve chosen the materials and approach that you see here. As for the change or transformation in forms present in the subjects in my works, again, I’m not simply intent on achieving some kind of objective, realistic model of some object. If I were only interested in this, then it would simply be a technical matter of representation. What I’m hoping to do in these works is explore and develop endless possibilities of form. NC:

Most of your works focus on the human body, yet in most cases the subjects are fat and from generally held standards, unattractive. Why is this? And, could your works be called “an esthetics of the ugly?”

XXW: The concepts of beauty and ugliness are essentially an inherited public standard. In the field of art, however, this standard is more often than not abandoned or subverted. In fact, many artists intentionally adopt an antagonistic stance toward it: if you’re about what is beautiful then I’m going to choose what is ugly. This is not my approach, however. I chose the human body because it serves as a basic starting point for all of us. We all grow up with our own body and we are familiar with it; it gives us a sense of affirmation; it serves as a means for know7

箫：你的作品中不变的主题好像是“性”，比如“返回” （2006）和那个“无题”的素描（29.6 x 22厘米，2006），还有那个女性正在生产的胎儿却变成了一具骷髅的单色素描好像是在一个单子的反面上画的。反正你的很多创造当中都体现出了一些矛盾或相反的主题：生命、死亡，和回到胎儿的原始状态。夏：这仍然是个固定主题，可能跟宿命有关系，但是这个结论我并不是看得很重，因为这是一个现实，现实的人的状态，不知道，人是属于过去的理想，存在的现实永远在变化着。箫：尽管近来你专注于画三维作品，但是也一直没有放弃素描和绘画，看上去这两类创作对于你现在的作画非常重要。夏：至少到现在为止，我的平面素描和这种三维素描之间是不能分开来谈的。应该说，空间问题的提出本来就是从平面绘画中来的，因为平面最终无法满足人的空间视觉的需要，所以在绘画的发展历史当中，我们会看到出现了大量的针对于空间问题的观念和作品。那些有别于物理学中“维度”的概念几乎在平面绘画的解释中被滥用。所以，我尝试着把平面不可能抵达的空间提供给绘画，使以往看画的视觉体验有所改变。所以我创作的空间作品都是从我的平面作品中来的，都是先在纸上画素描，然后再画到玻璃切片组成的空间关系当中。不论从技术完成的角度或是空间概念的推演，前期的平面素描都是必需的一

个作画环节和依据。当然，从绘画表现的角度来看我觉得“平面”和“空间”两者没有区别。

ing the world around us. Choosing this standard as a kind of esthetic premise in my works, I tend to adopt a position that might be likened to ideas found in traditional Chinese philosophy. I don’t want to set myself up to be the antithesis of anything – you’re this so I’m that. In fact, beauty and ugliness, while opposites, are in fact inseparable: one can’t exist without the other. In ancient China there was an artistic maxim, “to be like something and yet not be that thing you’re like,” the idea being that the subject is connected to reality while not overtly like that subject. Finding this space between likeness and non-likeness is something I enjoy playing with. Coming back to my works then – there is a conscious effort to choose and work with the human form. But based on our day-to-day concept of what the human body should be like, the forms in my works are contorted or even sickly looking. As for the changing forms of beauty and ugliness, our ideas come from and are informed by the societies around us and conceptually can change. So, the more fundamental issue for me is an artistic one – it is in finding an interesting space or balance. For an artist, if a works is too like something it belongs in the domain of art; if it is not like anything, then it belongs in the more general realm of society. (For the artist) it’s hard to find one’s own space.

箫：你曾经说过你在策划做一个规模很大的风景作品，在玻璃片上，让观众走到画里面，参与作品，从里面观察。我想，这是展览的名字《在画里》的意图的一个最好的解释。夏：其实从技术和材料上来看是可以实现的，而做这个作品只是为圆我一个梦。我一直觉得人能进入到画里该多好，这是我的一个梦想。至于人进到风景里或进到人体里都可以，这两个关系是可以重叠的，在人体里面可能是一个风景，这只是我选择题材的问题。箫：所以这个画展叫《在画里》。夏：因为中国人自古就不认为自然的山水是美的，而认为山水如画才美，是把画作为一个最高的美的体现，是这么一个概念。因为自然没必要说它是美或丑，它象画就美。宋朝画家郭熙（约公元1020－1090年）在《林泉高致》中说过，画山水画要使人感到可居可游，不能画穷山恶水让人害怕，人在看画时愿意置 4 我就要画这样的画。身其中，那才是好画。

NC:

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the works of German born French Surrealist Hans Bellmer (1902-1975). He too worked with the human body in his drawings, paintings and sculptures, where he restructured the human body, mixed up its parts and played with physical gestures to reveal what he thought were unconscious, often sexual impulses. For him, in conformity with his theory of a “physical unconscious,” enunciated in his 1957 essay, “Petite Anatomie de l’inconscient physique ou l’anatomie de l’image” (Little Anatomy of the Physical Unconscious or the Anatomy of the Image), the composition of the human body was somehow connected with psychology but also something which had a meta-mathematical basis as well.3 Your work is obviously different, but I’m curious as to your thoughts on such an approach and if there is any connection with your work.

XXW: Actually, throughout contemporary art there exists a common trend or technique: conceptual alternation. This approach involves taking fixed concepts, shattering them, and then re-arranging them to make something new. Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of contemporary art. As for myself, however, I’m cautious about trying to inculcate some kind of strictly conceptual change via technique in my art. Such an outlook perhaps stems from my early years and experience as an artist where I learned that highly conceptualized art, while appearing to be avante-guard and significant, can be dangerous terrain for an artist because if often touches upon and enters the realm of politics. Here, when I say “politics,” I mean it not in the narrow sense of the word. What I am referring to is the more general political climate of society and its subsequent influence on art. Such art underhandedly employs administrative-type techniques and concepts to achieve its purpose: there is a whole process of coordination and compromise and timing to achieve an ideal effect. So I’m cautious in my approach. What I’m concerned with is painting for the sake of painting. Because painting is, I believe, something ultimately straightforward and direct; it is intimately connected with our bodies; it is the most direct way of portraying something. With painting there is no need to dabble in such elaborate or complicated ideas and concepts. Perhaps in this regard I’m limiting myself but that’s my prerogative. NC: Your works also seem to have some thematic fixation with sex – your painting on glass, “Return” (2006), or your drawing “Untitled” (29.6 x 22 cm, 2006), the monochrome sketch of a woman giving birth to an infant which transforms into a skeleton that you made on the back of a pre-printed paper form for example. In many of your creations there seem to be thematic opposites at work: life and death and reversion to a fetal condition.

夏小万《关于空间绘画的思路》：发表于《世界知识画报》，世界知识出版社，北京2006年，5月，第292期，6页—17页，ISSN: 1003-028X

参见《易经》

参见汉斯·贝尔莫 (Hans Bellmer), 《Petite Anatomie de l’inconscient physique ou l’anatomie de l’image》 (Little Anatomy of the Physical Unconscious or the Anatomy of the Image), 1941-1947, 初版 Le Terrain Vague, 巴黎, 1957

XXW: This is certainly somewhat of a fixed theme; perhaps it’s a fixation or something connected to personal fate. But again, I’m not so concerned about reaching any definitive conclusions because as a theme it is more a reflection of reality, a reality of the human condition. It’s hard to say whether or not we have some kind of ideal past or beginning, but the reality of human existence is one of change. NC:

Even though recently you have been focusing more on your three-dimensional works, you have never abandoned sketching and painting. It would appear as though these two different types of works, these two different artistic exercises, both play an integral part in the process of creating your present works.

XXW: It would be impossible, at least at present, to discuss my two and three-dimensional works separately. To be honest, the whole impetus behind my current suspended glass works stems from painting on flat, two-dimensional surfaces, because, you see, working on such a surface is a limited visual experience for the viewer. Throughout the history and development of painting, many works and artists addressed this concept (of three-dimensional art). But those works that deviated from the principles of physics and tried to affect some kind of “multidimensional” quality on a two-dimensional surface generally were unsuccessful. So, what I have tried to do is create and work in a space that conventional, two-dimensional works cannot reach. It is, I dare to say, a new visual experience as far as viewing paintings is concerned. But, as I said, the process of creating these new works is really derived from the more traditional form of painting. I begin by sketching what I want to paint on a piece of paper and then I paint over the different pieces of glass that I later reassemble in mid-air. But from the point of view of completing the work, whether technically or conceptually, sketching and drawing play instrumental roles in the early stages. Of course, strictly in terms of artistic representation, I don’t really see any difference between flat and suspended, in-air works. NC: Once you mentioned that you were planning a huge landscape on glass sheets, a work that viewers could walk through, and be able to observe from the inside. This idea, in a way, could better explain the title of your present exhibition, “Painting From The Inside,” where “painting” is intended both as the act of painting and the artwork itself. XXW: Technically and in terms of materials it is something achievable. The impulse or motivation behind this work is really that it has always been a dream of mine to have people literally be a part of a work. As for whether they are part of some kind of natural landscape or something more urban, a crowd for example, it doesn’t really matter – that would simply a matter of theme. NC: Thus your exhibition is entitled, “Painting From The Inside.” XXW: Right. That’s because from ancient times to the present, Chinese people generally don’t regard natural scenery as being inherently beautiful; if scenery is like a painting, then it’s beautiful. That is, painting, or art in general is the highest form of beauty. You don’t need to say whether nature is beautiful or not; so long as it’s like a painting, it’s beautiful. Song dynasty landscape painter Guo Xi (ca.1020-1090), in “Linquan Gaozhi,” (“Lofty Record of Forests and Streams”) commented that when you’re depicting nature, you want to create a place that people would actually want to linger in and not a landscape that makes them feel uncomfortable. A good work should make the viewer long to be in that place being portrayed.4 That’s the kind of painting I hope to create.

Xia Xiaowan: “Some Thoughts about Space Paintings,” The illustrated Magazine for World Knowledge, World Knowledge Publishing House, Beijing, issue 292, May 2006, pp. 6-17, ISSN: 1003-028X

See “Yijing” or “The Book Of Changes”

See Hans Bellmer, “Petite Anatomie de l’inconscient physique ou l’anatomie de l’image” (Little Anatomy of the Physical Unconscious or the Anatomy of the Image), 1941-1947, or. ed. Le Terrain Vague, Paris, 1957

See Guo Xi, “Linquan Gaozhi,” (“Lofty Record of Forests and Streams”), dated ca. 1070

参见郭熙《林泉高致》，约公元1070年

玻璃 Works on Glass 作品

魄之二特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 14 片 6 mm 玻璃 163 x 120 x 81 cm 2006

Descending Soul No. 2 special pencil, tinted glass 14 glass panes (6 mm each) 163 x 120 x 81 cm 2006

自画像特种铅笔 , 玻璃彩 15 张 7 mm 亚克力板 130 x 126 x 69.4 cm 2005

Self-portrait special pencil, tinted glass 15 acrylic plates (7 mm each) 130 x 126 x 69.4 cm 2005

返回特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 14 片 6 mm 玻璃 120 x 81.5 x 52.2 cm 2006

Return special pencil, tinted glass 14 glass panes (6 mm each) 120 x 81.5 x 52.2 cm 2006

蹲着的人特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 14 片 4 mm玻璃 100 x 80 x 33.5 cm 2004

Squatted Man special pencil, tinted glass 14 glass panes (4 mm each) 100 x 80 x 33.5 cm 2004

复合形玻璃彩 14片 6 mm 玻璃 120 x 81.5 x 52.7 cm 2006

Combination of forms tinted glass 14 glass panes (6 mm each) 120 x 81.5 x 52.7 cm 2006

四头联像特种铅笔 , 玻璃彩 30 片 4 mm 玻璃 150 x 40 x 120 cm 2005

Four heads special pencil, tinted glass 30 glass panes (4 mm each) 150 x 40 x120 cm 2005

脸上特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 19 片 4 mm 玻璃 100 x 80 x 46 cm 2005

On the face special pencil, tinted glass 19 glass panes (4 mm each) 100 x 80 x 46 cm 2005

蜕特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 14 片 6 mm 玻璃 163 x 120 x 81 cm 2006

Slough special pencil, tinted glass 14 glass panes (6 mm each) 163 x 120 x 81 cm 2006

人像 5 特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 20 片 4 mm 玻璃 100 x 80 x 48 cm 2004

Head No.5 special pencil, tinted glass 20 glass panes (4 mm each) 100 x 80 x 48 cm 2004

并特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 14 片 6 mm 玻璃 163 x 120 x 81 cm 2006

Combination special pencil, tinted glass 14 glass panes (6 mm each) 163 x 120 x 81 cm 2006

双头形特种铅笔, 玻璃彩 14 片 3mm 玻璃 85 x 60 x 17.5 cm 2006

Double Head special pencil, tinted glass 14 glass panes (3 mm each) 85 x 60 x 17.5 cm 2006

纸上 Works on Paper 作品

无题纸上色粉笔 54.7 x 75 cm 2002

Untitled coloured chalk on paper 54.7 x 75 cm 2002

无题纸上色粉笔 75 x 55 cm 2004

Untitled coloured chalk on paper 75 x 55 cm 2004

无题纸上铅笔、黑色水笔 29.6 x 21 cm 2006

Untitled pencil and black watercolour paintbrush on paper 29.6 x 21 cm 2006

无题纸上色粉笔 37.5 x 55 cm 1999

Untitled coloured chalk on paper 37.5 x 55 cm 1999

无题纸上色粉笔 55.2 x 75 cm 2001

Untitled coloured chalk on paper 55.2 x 75 cm 2001

无题纸上色粉笔 37.5 x 43.5 cm 2006

Untitled coloured chalk on paper 37.5 x 43.5 cm 2006

无题纸上铅笔 22 x 29.6 cm 2006

Untitled pencil on paper 22 x 29.6 cm 2006

无题纸上色粉笔 34 x 30 cm 2004

Untitled coloured chalk on paper 34 x 30 cm 2004

穴纸上油画棒 100 x 85 cm 2003

Cave oil paint stick on paper 100 x 85 cm 2003

无题纸上油画棒 78 x 110 cm 2003

Untitled oil paint stick on paper 78 x 110 cm 2003

简历

Biography

1959

生于中国北京

1959

Born in Beijing, China

1982

毕业于中央美术学院油画系第三工作室，获文学学士学位

1982

Graduated from the Third Studio of the Oil Painting Department of the Central Academy of Fine Arts, Beijing, China

现任中央戏剧学院舞台美术系副教授，北京，中国

主要个人展览

Currently works as Assistant Professor at the Central Academy Of Drama, Beijing, China

Solo Exhibitions

2006

“在画里” ，麦勒画廊，北京，中国

2006

“Painting From The Inside,” Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing, China

2003

“你怎么看？——夏小万纸上作品展” ，今日美术馆，北京，中国

2003

“How do you see with your mind & body? Xia Xiaowan’s works on paper,” Today Art Gallery, Beijing, China

1998

“仰望的世界” ，香港Schoeni画廊，香港，中国

1998

“Looking Up,” SCHOENI Gallery, Hong Kong, China

主要参加联展 2006

2005

2004

“纽约亚洲艺术博览会” ，纽约，美国

Group Exhibitions 2006

“The 2nd Biennale of Austria 2006,” Klagenfurt, Austria

“超设计——第六届上海双年展” ，上海，中国

“Hyper Design – The 6th Shanghai Biennale,” Shanghai, China

“大河上下——新时期中国油画回顾” ，展中国美术馆，北京

2005

“Yellow River – A Review of New Chinese Oil Painting,” National Museum of China, Beijing

“携手新世纪 ——第三届中国油画展” ，中国美术馆，北京

“Hand in Hand with the New Century – The Third Exhibition of Chinese Oil Painting,” National Museum of China, Beijing

“麻将——希客中国当代艺术收藏展” ，伯尔尼美术博物馆，瑞士；汉堡美术馆，德国

“Mahjong – Contemporary Chinese Art from the Sigg Collection,” Kunstmuseum Bern, Switzerland; Kunsthalle Hamburg, Germany

“平遥国际摄影展” ，平遥，中国

“2005 Pingyao International Photography Art Exhibition,” Pingyao, China

“2004亚洲当代艺术展” ，光州，韩国

2004

“难题——四合苑艺术家群展” ，四合苑画廊，北京，中国

“2004 Contemporary Asian Art Exhibition,” Gwangju, Korea “Posers – Group Exhibition of CourtYard Gallery Artists,” CourtYard Gallery, Beijing, China

2003

“国际素描艺术大展” ，中国；英国；澳大利亚

2003

“International Exhibition of Sketch Art,” China; England; Australia

2002

“世纪风骨——中国当代艺术50家” ，中华世纪坛，北京，中国

2002

“Vigor of the Century – Contemporary Art Exhibition of 50 Chinese Artists,” China Millennium Monument, Beijing, China

2001

“焦虑: 素描形象展” ，澳大利亚新南威尔士大学美术学院，新南威尔士，澳大利亚

2001

“Anxiety: the drawn figure,” The University of New South Wales College of Fine Arts, New South Wales, Australia

“2001成都双年展” ，成都，中国

“2001 Chengdu Biennale,” Chengdu, China

2000

“二十世纪中国油画展” ，中国美术馆，北京，中国

2000

“20th Century Chinese Oil Painting Exhibition,” National Museum of China, Beijing, China

1996

“重复开始画展” ，故宫，北京，中国

1996

“Restarting,” The Palace Museum, Beijing, China

“杜塞尔多夫群展” ，杜塞尔多夫，德国

“Group Exhibition in Düsseldorf,“ Düsseldorf, Germany

1994

“美术批评家年度提名展” ，中国美术馆，北京，中国

1994

“The Annual Exhibition of Works of the Artists Nominated by Art Critics,” National Museum of China, Beijing, China

1992

“后’89中国新艺术展” ，Marlborough画廊，伦敦；悉尼，澳大利亚

1992

“China New Art Post ’89,” Marlborough Gallery, London; Sydney, Australia

1991

“’91三月画展” ，中央美术学院，北京，中国

1991

“‘91 March Exhibition,” the Central Academy of Fine Arts, Beijing, China

“后’89中国新艺术展” ，汉雅轩画廊，香港

“2006 New York Asia Art Fair,” New York, USA

“第二届奥地利国际双年展” ，克拉根福，奥地利

“China New Art Post ’89,” Hanart T Z Gallery, Hong Kong

1988

“中国现代艺术展” ，中国美术馆，北京，中国

1988

“An exhibition of modern Chinese Art,” National Museum of China, Beijing, China

1985

“十一月画展” ，故宫，北京，中国

1985

“The November Exhibition,” The Palace Museum, Beijing, China

出版文献

Publications

出版物

Publications

●

《在画里》，麦勒画廊卢森 -北京，2006年，北京，中国

• Painting From The Inside, Beijing, China: Galerie Urs Meile, Lucerne - Beijing, 2006

●

《夏小万素描集》，河北教育出版社，2001年，河北，中国，ISBN: 7-5434-4434-8

• Drawings of Xia Xiaowan, Hebei, China: Hebei Education Press, 2001, ISBN: 7-5434-4434-8

●

《仰望的世界》，Schoeni画廊，1998年，香港，中国，ISBN: 962-7502-36-7

• Looking Up, Hong Kong, China: Schoeni Art Gallery, 1998, ISBN: 962-7502-36-7

文章 ●

●

Texts and Articles

箫岭(Nataline Colonnello)，夏小万：《在画里—— 夏小万访谈录》，发表于《在画里》，麦勒画廊卢森 -北京，2006 年，9月，6页—11页

• Nataline Colonnello, Xia Xiaowan: “Painting From The Inside - Interview with Xia Xiaowan,” Painting From The Inside, Galerie Urs Meile, Lucerne - Beijing, September 2006, pp. 6-11

夏小万：《关于空间绘画的思路》，发表于《世界知识画报》，世界知识出版社，2006 年，5月，第292期，6页—17页，ISSN: 1003-028X

• Xia Xiaowan: “Some Thoughts about Space Paintings,” The illustrated Magazine for World Knowledge, World Knowledge Publishing House, issue 292, May 2006, pp. 6-17, ISSN: 1003-028X

凯恩，刘阳：《夏小万：玻璃变形人》，发表于《名仕》，华商报业投资出版，2005年，第11期， 139页—141页，ISSN: 1673-2448

• Kai En, Liu Yang: “Artist Who Draw Anamorphic Person on Glass,” Prestige Magazine, issue 11, 2005, pp.139-141, ISSN: 1673-2448

夏小万：《创作随想》，发表于《中国艺术》，中国美术出版总社，2004年，第3期，54页—57页， ISSN: 1003-0433

• Xia Xiaowan: “Capriccio of My Composition,” Chinese Art, China Fine Art Central Publishing House, issue 3, 2004, pp. 54-57, ISSN: 1003-0433

韩伟华：《视读经验与思维模式——夏小万访谈札记》，发表于《画廊》，画廊杂志社，2004 年，第1期，115页—125页，ISSN: 1000-4815

• Han Weihua: “Interpreting Experiences and Models of Thought - Notes About An Interview with Xia Xiaowan,” Gallery, Gallery Magazine Publishing House, issue 1, 2004, pp. 115-125, ISSN: 1000-4815

宋晓霞：《你怎么看？》，发表于《中国艺术》，中国美术出版总社，2004年，第3期，51页—53页， ISSN: 1003-0433

• Song Xiaoxian: “What Is The Way You See?” Chinese Art, China Fine Art Central Publishing House, issue 3, 2004, pp. 51-53, ISSN: 1003-0433

夏小万：《我看到即如此》，发表于《当代美术家》，当代美术家杂志社，2003年，4月，第29期， 60页— 61页，ISSN: 1005-3255

• Xia Xiaowan: “I Saw It So,” Contemporary Artist, Contemporary Artist Publishing House, issue 29, April 2003, pp. 60-61, ISSN: 1005-3255

宋晓霞：《夏小万纸上作品》，发表于《读者欣赏》，甘肃人民出版社，2003年，11月，第11期， 66页— 67页，ISSN: 1671- 4830

• Song Xiaoxian: “Xia Xiaowan’s Works On Paper,” Reader Digest, Gansu People’s Publishing House, issue 11, 2003, pp. 66-67, ISSN: 1671-4830

夏小万：《我看到即如此》，发表于《解读素描 ——油画家工作室报告》，上海书画出版社，2003 年，57页—59页，ISBN: 7-80672-720-5

• Xia Xiaowan: “I Saw It So,” Understanding the Art of Sketch - Report on The Studios of Oil Painters, Shanghai Painting and Calligraphy Publishing House, 2003, pp. 57 - 59, ISBN: 7-80672-720-5

宋晓霞：《你怎么看？》，发表于《东方艺术》，东方艺术杂志社出版，2003 年，11月，第 67期， 158页—171页，ISSN: 1005-9733

• Song Xiaoxian: “How Do You See With Your Mind & Body?” Oriental Art, Oriental Art Publishing House, issue 67, November 2003, pp. 158-171, ISSN: 1005-9733

马路：《飞近了看人》，发表于《今日艺术》，河北教育出版社，2000年，第1期，44页— 45页， ISBN: 7-5434-4434-8

• Ma Lu: “Flying Next to The People to Watch Them,” Art Today, Hebei Education Press, issue 1, 2000, pp. 44 – 45, ISBN: 7-5434-4434-8

贾新民：《心路上的思索与超越——当代中国艺术与夏小万的画》，发表于《仰望的世界》夏小万个展画册，Schoeni 画廊出版，香港，中国，1998年，8页—10页，ISBN: 962-7502-36-7

• Jia Xinmin: “Contemplations and Transcendentalism on The Minds Roads – The Contemporary Arts in China and Xia Xiaowan’s Paintings,” Looking Up, Hong Kong, China: Schoeni Art Gallery, 1998, pp. 8 – 10, ISBN: 962-7502-36-7

夏小万：《重新清理》，发表于《美术研究》，美术研究杂志社，1996年，第4期，16页，ISSN:04616855 栗宪庭：《夏小万——浪漫情怀的现代梦游者》，发表于《美术批评家年度提名展（1994·油画）》，中国美术馆，北京，中国，1994年，162页，ISBN: 7-5410-0942-3 吕澎、易丹：《11月画展与走向未来画展》，发表于《中国现代艺术史1979-1989》，湖南美术出版社，长沙，中国，1991年，259页—262页，ISBN: 7-5356-0478-1

• Xia Xiaowan: “Resettlement,” Fine Art Research, Fine Art Research Publishing House, issue 4, 1996, p.16, ISSN: 0461-6855 • Li Xianting: “Xia Xiaowan, A Romantic Modern Sleepwalker,” The Annual Exhibition of Works of The Artists Nominated by Art Critics (Oil Paintings 1994), Beijing, China: National Museum of China, 1994, p. 162, ISBN: 7-5410-0942-3 • Lü Peng, Yi Dan: “The November Exhibition and Step to The Future,” A History of Chinese Modern Art, 1979-1989, Changsha, China: Hunan Fine Art Publishing House, 1991, pp. 259-262, ISBN: 7-5356-0478-1

Published by: Galerie Urs Meile, Lucerne - Beijing Edited by: Nataline Colonnello, Enrico Polato and Li Jianhui Texts: Nataline Colonnello and Xia Xiaowan Design: Li Jianhui Translations: Kirk Kenny and Manuela Lietti Photography: Sun Jianwei and Chen Hui © 2006 Galerie Urs Meile, Lucerne - Beijing, Xia Xiaowan All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including but not limited to photocopying, recording or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher. Printed in China

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