Alter Ego #16 Preview by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ Thunderstruck Comics Fanzine

5.95

In the USA

No. 16 July 2002

COVER ARTIST

Alex Ross FAWCETT FANTASIES TAKE FLIGHT!

PLUS:

Also:

MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION!

John Buscema Gene Colan John Romita Marie Severin

OTTO & JACK BINDER C.C. BECK •MARC SWAYZE HARVEY KURTZMAN •JOE SIMON JIM MOONEY •MICHAEL T. GILBERT STAN LEE •RAMONA FRADON MARK EVANIER • BILL SCHELLY And More!!

Vol. 3, No. 16 / July 2002 Editor

™

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editors John Morrow Jon B. Cooke

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comics Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists Marie Severin & Ramona Fradon Alex Ross

Cover Colorists Alex Ross Marie Severin & Tom Ziuko

Mailing Crew

Russ Garwood, Glen Musial, Ed Stelli, Pat Varker, Loston Wallace

And Special Thanks to:

Sam Abbinanti Blake Bell Albert Becattini Al Bigley Bira Bill Black Jerry K. Boyd Lee Boyette Al Bradford Glenn Brays Jeff Brenna Tom Brevoort Mike Burkey Mrs. Dolores Buscema John Buscema, Jr. Gene & Adrienne Colan Dick Cole Bob Cosgrove Rob Daniels Tom DeFalco Shel Dorf Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ramona Fradon Paul Gambaccini Dave Gantz Jennifer T. Go Bob Greenberger Martin L. Greim Walt Grogan David G. Hamilton Bill Harper Richard Harpster Ron Harris Irwin Hasen Joe Heffernan Michael Hranek Dan Johnson Denis Kitchen Robert Knuist

Anthony Kowalik Adele Kurtzman Mort Leav Stan Lee Mathias Lorenz Larry Mahlstedt Joe & Nadia Mannarino Jim Mooney Brian K. Morris Michelle Nolan Owen & Susan O'Leary Jerry Ordway Mark Pacella Bruce Patterson Don Perlin Joe Phillips Virginia Provisiero Dan Raspler Mrs. Elmée B. Reit Ethan Roberts John Romita Alex Ross Clark Ross Fred Schneider David Sell Marie Severin Joe Simon Dave Simons Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Joel Thingvall Dann Thomas Bob Thoms Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Michael J. Vassallo Mike Vosburg Kevin Weremeychik Ed Zeno Mike Zeno

––in memoriam ––

Robert Kanigher & Tom Sutton

Contents Writer/Editorial: The Big Red Cheese–– and an Infinite Number of Mice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Journey to the Rock of Eternity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 The bountiful Binder brothers—Otto & Jack—a vintage interview re The Marvel Family.

Not Your Father’s Captain Marvel: Another View . . . . . . . . . 12 DC editor Bob Greenberger and A/E’s editor agree to disagree about the 1980s Shazam!

Word of Power. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 Didja know there was nearly a 1990s Shazam! series before Jerry Ordway’s? Neither did we!

Comic Crypt: Harvey’s Heroes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 Michael T. Gilbert begins “EC Confidential” with a look at Kurtzman’s super-doers! re: (letters & corrections) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 Stan Lee, Joe Simon, and others weigh in.

P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA (FawcettCollectorsofAmerica) #75 . 33 Alex Ross, Sam Abbinanti, & Marc Swayze have their say. C.C. Beck art, too!

Marvel Bullpen Reunion Section. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: We’re particularly grateful to Alex Ross for generously allowing us to use this never-before-printed Mary Marvel painting, done for his Shazam! project a decade ago, as one of our covers. Mary never looked sexier than when Alex partly re-designed her. For more, see p. 40. [Art ©2002 Alex Ross; Mary Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] Above: This previously-unprinted Alex Ross sketch of Mary Marvel didn’t quite make it into our coverage of his early-’90s Shazam! project back in Alter Ego V3#3, but we weren’t gonna pass up a second chance! With thanks to the artist. [Art ©2002 Alex Ross; Mary Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11 elsewhere). Eight-issue subscriptions: $40 US, $80 Canada, $88 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Otto and Jack Binder

Interview Conducted by Bob Cosgrove

Two Marvel-ous pairs of siblings! Otto Binder (seated) and his artist brother Jack, in 1973—flanked by Cap and Mary. The Cap panel is from original C.C.!Beck art, courtesy of P.C. Hamerlinck, from America’s Greatest Comics #8 (Summer 1943); Jack’s Mary Marvel illo was first published in Comic Crusader #15. [Photo ©2002 Martin L. Greim. Mary Marvel art ©2002 estate of Jack Binder; Captain & Mary Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

Few comic creators have been the subject of as many articles and features as Jack and Otto Binder. And little wonder. First working with Harry Chesler, and then managing his own shop, Jack Binder oversaw the production of a massive amount of comic book art, as well as personally illustrating many features, most notably “Mary Marvel.” Most famous for his many “Captain Marvel” stories, Otto Binder also scripted for Timely, National, and just about every other company in the business, as well as maintaining a prodigious output as a sciencefiction writer.

wife Iona. Otto is a short, portly man, with greying hair and a pencilline mustache. Eager for news of the comic industry, he leans forward during conversations, anxious to capture each word, punctuating his comments with short, animated hand movements. As time was short, we went immediately to Jack Binder’s nearby home. On the way, I quizzed Otto concerning his reading habits, hoping to take his mind off Al’s driving. Otto said that he read mostly mystery and science-fiction, favoring Robert Heinlein as the top s-f writer. At that point, the van pulled into Jack’s.

You can’t imagine how delighted I was when Martin Greim suggested that he, Al Bradford, and I travel to upstate New York to visit the famous pair, who lived only minutes apart. My enthusiasm died a bit when I learned we were going in Al Bradford’s van. I was unable to decide whether the name “Dodge” emblazoned on the vehicle’s front was a trade name or advice to pedestrians. Playing on my indecision, my fellow fans seized me by the cape-side and hurled me into the van. We were off!

While we waited for the second Binder, Otto invited us to the barn out back to see the studio and workshop which Jack used to create the realistic figures and regalia used in the nearby historical museum, Fort William Henry. Otto led us up a narrow staircase to Jack’s studio loft, a small, well-lit room containing painting materials and sketchbooks. Nestling here and there throughout the studio were pieces from synthetic Binder models... a hand here, a soldier’s head there. At this point, Jack joined us and invited us into his home. After introducing us to his wife Olga, he bade us be seated in the living room. Pictures, large oil paintings, adorned the walls.

We left in the morning light of Massachusetts and arrived at Otto Binder’s home in the bright afternoon sunlight around 2:00. Suppressing our disappointment at not finding at least a yellow lightning insignia on the mailbox, we introduced ourselves to Mr. Binder and his gracious

Jack Binder, in snow-white hair and black, thick-framed glasses, is about the same height as his brother. He is an abrupt, dynamic man, who several times in the course of our conversation expressed his appreciation of Jim Steranko. This was not surprising. In attitude and

Journey to the Rock of Eternity

demeanor, he might have been Jim Steranko forty years later, a Steranko of the Golden Age of Comics. Informed of a colleague’s departure from National, he said, “I don’t blame them a bit. They’re impossible to work for. I never worked for anyone on any terms but my own!” For a moment, Binder’s figure dissolved and I saw the figure of Jim Steranko, sitting on my hotel bed at a New York con, telling a jammed room that “If a publisher wants me, he’s got to meet my terms.”

[A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: As published in Comic Crusader #15, Marty asks about the “Book” of Eternity, and Otto is recorded as mentioning first the Book, then the famous Rock of Eternity. Though I seem to recall that there may have been such a book, I reasoned, based on Otto’s response, that Marty actually asked about the Rock of Eternity, and that the word was twice transcribed incorrectly. — Roy.]

The Interview

OTTO BINDER: I’m fairly certain that the Rock of Eternity was my idea. I seem to remember coming up with the plot all enthused, and [editor] Wendell Crowley was, too, when he heard it. It actually ties in scientifically with astronomical theory. As you know, according to the “Big Bang” theory, there was once a “primal atom” of super-condensed matter which exploded some 15 billion years ago or so. These particles then scattered to form the nebulas, etc.

BOB COSGROVE: Jack, as I understand it, one of your first jobs in the comic industry was as shop foreman for the Harry Chesler Studio. Could you tell us something of Chesler himself? He’s sort of an unknown figure to many fans. JACK BINDER: Well, my first impression of Harry Chesler, when I went down with Frank Gruber, who was then scripting western tales for him, to get the job, wasn’t a good one. I didn’t like the looks of the shop and turned him down. I went back a year later and Harry and I sat down for about an hour or so and talked. He said, “I don’t want you as an artist!” And I said, “Then what the hell do you want?” He then told me he wanted me to take charge, to take over the staff. I said, “OK, fine!” And that was all there was to it. The background of Harry Chesler is simply this: he was a man who was a visionary... a promoter... full of ideas... and still is to this day. He has a natural intuitive sense, to know when an artist has done his best. I’ve seen him have an artist do over a job fifteen times. He’d pay for it, but he’d know the artist was doing his best work. He knew what he wanted and he’d get it!

Now, along with this “point in space,” there was a “point in time,” too, at that very spot, wherever it was. Using poetic (literary) license, I simply postulated a fixed point in the universe where this primal atom existed in a timeless state before it exploded. The Rock [of Eternity] angle was just to make it pictorial. But, conceivably, there is some temporal/spacial point from which any portion of the universe, throughout time, can be reached. If you understand all this, tell me how it works, will you! BC: Jack, would you describe what your typical work day was like when you were running your own shop? JACK BINDER: It was 24 hours a day. OTTO BINDER: It started with him going crazy, and how did it end up?

Sivana seeks out the Rock of Eternity in Marvel Family #10 (April 1947), one of that mag’s greatest issues. Roy owns his own copy—but thank the six immortals for DC’s 1977 collection Shazam! From the 40’S to the 70’s! Script by Otto Binder, art by C.C. Beck. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Harry was originally sponsored by Bernarr MacFadden, in our first studio on 5th Avenue. Then there was some confusion between Harry and MacFadden and the shop broke up. I went on my own for a while, then several months later Harry called me up and we started a new organization. I think there were three times we sort of went off the deep end, primarily because Harry could always envision something different, something new, and he’d spend his last cent on it. He always had confidence that we could make it, and we did. Harry loved human beings. He was like a father to everybody. OTTO BINDER: Harry was a showman; he often did bizarre things, simply for the effect. He had pet alligators, little ones, in his office, and would feed them raw hamburger. He also served them minnows, but he would chop their heads off first, so the minnows wouldn’t suffer when the alligators ate them. MARTY GREIM: Of the many things connected with Captain Marvel, one of the more interesting is Shazam’s Rock of Eternity. Can you tell us something about this, Otto?

JACK BINDER: Well, I wound up crazier! I hired in units of four. I’d get enough work to near work the men I had to death, and when I had enough work for four more men, I’d hire them. So those four were kept busy, and my original crew was kept busy, too. I always had enough work, because I got the business first.

BC: What about your workday, Otto? OTTO BINDER: Well, as you know, a writer works alone. I’m a morning writer. I’d get going at 9 o’clock and work until I was groggy, which usually came about 2:00 in the afternoon. The rest of the day I’d take off to recover. BC: What kind of things did you read, Otto, when you were working in comics? OTTO BINDER: Everything but comics! Science-fiction, detective, and science books, mostly. MG: Otto, over the years you’ve worked on many characters. Which would you say was your favorite? OTTO BINDER: Without a doubt, Captain Marvel or any of The Marvel Family! Other than them, I’d say Captain America was one. He

Otto and Jack Binder mechanical drawing, pattern of line development, and design. Then, from there on, if they have any artistic talent, let it express itself. You’ve got to have complete involvement in what you’re doing... just give yourself to it, or it won’t happen. BC: Do you remember how you felt when you got the word that Captain Marvel was dead and that the Fawcett line was no longer in the comic book business?

As “Eando Binder,” Otto was a science-fiction scribe before he was a comic scripter. He created (see top left) the first sympathetic robot for numerous issues of Amazing Stories, including late-entry “Adam Link Saves the World” in the April 1942 issue. Later he adapted three of these in EC’s Weird ScienceFantasy, beginning in #27 (Jan.-Feb. 1955), with Joe Orlando art, as seen at right. [Photo ©2002 Martin L. Greim; Amazing Stories art ©2002 the respective copyright holder; EC art ©2002 William Gaines Agent.]

was always a free and easy character. I did scripts directly for Stan Lee, in those days. I didn’t work with Joe Simon until years later, when he was working for Harvey Publications. BC: Marty’s been working on a “Captain Marvel Jr. vs. Captain Nazi” article. Do you know who created Captain Nazi? OTTO BINDER: Yes, it was Ed Herron. Herron was a very good writer, and I think he created Captain America, too. At the time he worked for Fawcett, he couldn’t admit to it, because he wasn’t supposed to work for any other company.

JACK BINDER: It didn’t bother me a bit! I knew the end was near and I’d made arrangements to go into another line of business. OTTO BINDER: Jack’s case was different, because he was branching out into other lines of business; but in my case, my whole living was practically Fawcett Comics. I had quit DC because of the Fawcett/National lawsuit, so when National finally won the suit, it came as a big blow to me and the other artists and writers concerned. The thing that made it even worse was that Beck and I had a syndicated Captain Marvel strip all worked out. He even did some artwork on it. I think we had about six or eight weeks of it done. BC: What about your brief venture with Milson Publications, Otto, and the character Fatman the Human Flying Saucer?

MG: Otto, which did you find it easier to write... a super-hero story, or science-fiction story, or a detective story? OTTO BINDER: I think, probably, the science-fiction stories. I liked doing things for the EC comics. BC: [to Jack] What did an artist have to be able to do for your shop? JACK BINDER: The most important thing for an artist in the comic book field to know is how to utilize the full page, with the number of breakdowns on that page, to consistently have a continuity and a flow of story. Knowing how to interpret a script is another important thing. There was a panel once that really had the boys puzzled. The script said, “Show the hero and the girl standing on the shore at the beach, with the waves thundering in, and in the background show 10,000 natives coming at them throwing spears.” They finally decided to see me about this problem of how to draw all that. I said, “Well, getting to this point is very simple. Just show a closeup of the hero, with his arm around the girl, pointing at the reader, saying, “Look at those 10,000 natives coming at us! This is the end!” MG: As an artist yourself, Jack, how many pages did you turn out a day? JACK BINDER: Two complete saleable pages a day. “Look, see, think, do” is my motto. My advice to anyone learning art is to learn

Otto believed writer and sometime editor Ed Herron created Captain Nazi— though another Fawcett writer, William Woolfolk, has claimed that feat. Either way, he was one of the greatest super-villains of the World War II era, as seen here in Whiz Comics #25 (Dec. 1941). But—Ed Herron as the creator of Captain America? [©2002 DC Comics.]

“Not Your Father’s Captain Marvel”

“Not Your Fathers Captain Marvel!” Another View by Bob Greenberger [EDITOR’S INTRO: In Alter Ego V3#9 I indulged myself by writing a lengthy examination of a handful of my “dream projects” that did not come to fruition in the late 1980s and 1990s. One of these was a monthly Shazam! series which was slated to follow the successful four-issue Shazam! The New Beginning series which Dann and I co-wrote, and which was drawn by Tom Mandrake, on the heels of the mid-’80s Legends mini-series. I detailed the process by which Mark Beachum, Frank Travellin, Mike Gustovich, and Tod Smith, in turn, were chosen by DC Comics as the artistsdesignate. [The final step in this debilitating process occurred when editor Mike Gold relinquished the project, against my wishes, to another editor whom I did not name, who insisted that I plot a new, stand-alone first issue (instead of the already-plotted #12 which had been penciled, in whole or in part, by at least three of the above artists). Eventually the whole thing fell apart, and, my six-year contractual priority on a Shazam! series having expired, I moved on to other projects, mostly at Marvel, while others—and eventually Jerry Ordway, who was not connected with the foregoing in any way, shape, or form—became the heirs to Shazam!

As you might imagine, I read your piece “Not Your Father’s Captain Marvel!” with great interest. Having both watched from the sidelines at the beginning and being actively involved at the end, I had my own notions of what happened and why. Captain Marvel was always a problem character for the DC Universe, even in the slightly more innocent 1980s. His world was of a simpler time, and it never seemed to fit as things got grimmer and grittier. His use in Legends showed that with the right creators it might work, and it certainly succeeded with the Shazam! The New Beginning mini-series. After that, the character, and you, suffered from a clear lack of editorial direction. While you were working out West, Dick Giordano tried to match you with the right artist. Mark Beachum, promising as he was, was among the first of a generation that seemed to lack the direction to draw on a regular basis. With the exception of his work in Penthouse Comix, Mark has never been a regular artist on much of anything. The work you reprinted shows his style owing more to Neal Adams than C.C. Beck, which would have made for an odd-looking Captain Marvel indeed. Frank Travellin was someone Dick was trying to groom for years and, again, his work never amounted to much and he soon disappeared from comics altogether. I remember his storytelling to be pedestrian, but the designs you showed reminded me why Dick stuck with him.

[Because I had not named most of the parties involved, Bob Greenberger—the editor to whom In the late 1980s three artists penciled the same scene for the first issue Mike handed over my Shazam! of Roy & Dann Thomas’ projected monthly Shazam! series: (above) series—is not mentioned in A/E Mark Beachum... (next page, top right) Frank Travellin... and (next page, V3#9. However, upon reading Mike Gustovich, who did some bottom left) Tod Smith. Bob Greenberger seems to feel that Mike Gustovich “Not Your Father’s Captain nice work for you back then, was a may have done some penciling for the series, as well! [©2002 DC Comics.] Marvel!” therein, Bob elected to better, more disciplined choice, submit his own thoughts on the and I have no idea why this subject, and I was more than willing to print them. Here’s what Bob, version didn’t take off. It was probably the strongest of the bunch. who since then has also spent some months as an executive at Marvel, By this time, when you stopped being the writer/editor, the character had to say via e-mail on in August 2001. —Roy.] fell under Mike Gold’s purview. Mike certainly matched your enthusiasm for the character, but he was so busy starting things up that he

[Kurtzman Art ÂŠ2002 estate of Harvey Kurtzman.]

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

EC Confidential by Michael T. Gilbert Some cartoonists are born geniuses—or at least that’s the way we like to imagine it. Truth to tell, it’s hard to picture guys like Harvey Kurtzman, Jack Davis, Wally Wood, and company ever being anything less than perfect. Still, even the greatest talents had to start somewhere, and the cartoonists who worked at EC were no exception.

fertile period in which he also wrote, edited, and sometimes drew grimly realistic war stories for EC’s Frontline Combat and Two-fisted Tales. Early issues of Weird Science and Weird Fantasy also featured a handful of superbly crafted Kurtzman sciencefiction stories.

From roughly 1950-56, the Entertaining Comics line produced some of the greatest comics in the field. In their day, the cartoonists whom publisher Bill Gaines and editors Al Feldstein and Harvey Kurtzman hired were a virtual “Who’s Who” of comics’ best and brightest—and the stories they crafted for Mad, Two-fisted Tales, Weird Science, Crime SuspenStories, Tales from the Crypt, and other EC titles became instant classics. So what better place to start our search?

After leaving EC, he started Trump, Humbug, and Help!—all brilliant but financially unsuccessful humor magazines. The former was published by Playboy magazine magnate Hugh Hefner in 1957, but died after a mere two-issue run. Five According to The Illustrated Harvey Kurtzman Index, Glenn years later, Kurtzman and Brays’ indispensable 1976 checklist, this very early Kurtzman fellow Mad cartoonist Will cartoon first appeared in The Overtone, the school paper of In this and future Crypts, we’ll sneak a peek at Elder finally hit paydirt when New York High School of Music and Art, and was reprinted in some rare pre-EC work by these comics legends— they began their long-running Guts #5 in 1969. [©2002 the estate of Harvey Kurtzman.] and to sweeten the deal, we’ll even showcase some “Little Annie Fanny” series in noteworthy examples of their later work. But let’s Playboy itself. But before all that, Harvey served his comic book keep it our little secret, OK? That way I have an excuse to call this apprenticeship drawing stories for a number of second-rate publishers. series... “EC Confidential”! Comics historian John Benson states that Kurtzman began his cartooning career in 1942, helping artist Louis Ferstadt ink a Classic Comics adaptation of Moby-Dick. From there, he moved on to draw straight super-hero features like “Black Venus,” “Magno and Davey,” and “Mr. Risk” for Ace and other publishers. Harvey seemed ill-suited to these humorless stories. Fortunately, his irrepressible humor couldn’t Let’s start with the mad genius behind Mad comics and Mad be contained for long! magazine, Harvey Kurtzman. Harvey created Mad in the early 1950s, a

Part I Harvey’s Heroes

A selection of HK’s straight super-hero comics fare: “Paul Revere Jr.” (Super-Mystery Comics, Vol. 3, #3), the cover of 4 Favorites #11, and “Mr. Risk” (Super-Mystery Comics, Vol. 3, #5) were all published in 1943 by Ace/Periodical House; “Black Venus” is from Contact Comics #11 (1946), from Aviation Press. These pages were reprinted in The Illustrated Harvey Kurtzman Index. [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

EC Confidential

Harvey moved to EC, where he wrote and illustrated a series of humorous tales for editor Al Feldstein’s science-fiction titles. One of these, “Man and Superman” (Weird Science #6), was a clever 7-page look at the scientific underpinnings of the Man of Steel’s super-human abilities. It came out only a year and a half before the first issue of Mad, and in a sense was a (probably unintentional) trial balloon for his later super-hero satires. (See next page.) Oddly enough, though Harvey would later parody DC, Fawcett, and Quality super-heroes in Mad, his first and only Marvel-hero satire wouldn’t appear until 1990—when Marvel itself published Harvey Kurtzman’s Strange Adventures. Harvey wrote seven short stories for the book, including a rather disappointing Silver Surfer parody (see p. 22). Earlier, he had done a mid-’60s “Little Annie Fanny” episode in Playboy which had featured one of Annie’s comic-collector friends dressed as Captain America. (In the late ’60s Marvel published Not Brand Echh, a heavily Kurtzman-influenced humor title that made fun of their heroes; but to my knowledge the two stories mentioned above remain the only time Kurtzman himself played with the Marvel/Timely characters.) Also, for a 1963 issue of Help! he did the delightful “A Thousand Pictures Worth One Word,” as seen on page 21.

From 1946 to 1949 Kurtzman wrote and drew a series of hilarious “Hey Look!” one-pagers for Timely (later called Marvel). It was the first time he had complete artistic freedom on any of his projects, and his work showed it. Kurtzman’s strip grew funnier with each episode, and paved the way for his later Mad work. Stan Lee was his boss in those days, and must have enjoyed Harvey’s zany humor, as he eventually bought over 150 “Hey Look!” strips to use as fillers in various Timely titles. One of my favorites of the “Hey Look!” strips is the Captain Marvel-ish incident wherein a character turns into a super-hero by shouting “Hey Look!” This was drawn in the late ’40s for Timely, but Kitchen Sink’s invaluable Hey Look! collection states that it was first published in Kurtzman’s Portfolio 10 in 1966. This isn’t quite super-hero stuff, but around 1949 Kurtzman also submitted to editor Lee an amazing 12"x18" sample page that was very much a precursor of the Mad comic he would launch a couple of years later at EC. (See next page.) First printed in a 1993 Christie’s East Comic Collectibles catalog, it is described there: “Archie-like character is actually ‘speaking’ to Stan Lee and performs some very definite no-nos. Kurtzman was obviously demonstrating to Lee his range as an artist.” But that was the year of one of Timely’s periodic downsizings, and the end of even the “Hey Look!” fillers.

A later “Hey Look!” page with a super-hero theme. If you run across a copy of Kitchen Sink’s hardcover Hey Look! collection of a few years back, circle the date in your calendar. It was your lucky day! [©2002 estate of Harvey Kurtzman.]

[Art ÂŠ2002 DC!Comics.]

Marc Swayze

33 Back in 1940 I took a long low-budget trip to show the big city syndicates my first try at a comic strip. One of my stops was to be the NEA Service. I learned from the security officer at the Cleveland bus station that the syndicate was within walking distance, and, from a uniformed patrolman on the street, more specific directions. I soon learned that the part of the NEA building to which I had been directed was the part that those officers knew... the syndicate’s loading dock!

mds& (c) [Art

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Comics. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic Mary Marvel origin story; but he was primarily hired to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After World War II, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his long-time friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s romance comics, and eventually ended his comics career with Charlton Publications. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. For the last few issues, Marc has focused on his several attempts to sell a syndicated comic strip. This time he relates how his dream to get his own strip syndicated was finally realized... only to be confronted with a crossroads decision. Read on to see what he decided, then join us again next issue when Marc returns to his reminiscences about the halcyon days he spent with Fawcett Publications. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

Without looking for the front of the building I caught the attention of one of the workers long enough to explain to him why I was there... and after his consultation with a couple of others, he waved to me to wait, and disappeared. When he returned he was with another individual who looked as much out of place in the warehouse area as I did. It was Earnest L. Lynn... and there at the busy loading dock of NEA Service, I presented Judi the Jungle Girl. To this day I haven’t forgotten the courtesy and encouragement shown me there... nor that accorded me by Ernest Lynn during the ensuing years of my quest for a career. Now here it was, fourteen or fifteen years later... right in my hands... the long-sought syndicate contract... with details just about like I had wanted them from the beginning. The Great Pierre, my own creation, writing, art, title, and characters, was to be released to the newspapers by the Bell Syndicate, with time allowed for further preparation. After about a year of modifications to the strip, all by the way of correspondence with Andre F. L’Eveque, suddenly he was gone. A brief message from Joseph B. Agnelli announced that “Frank” had resigned from the organization.

I may have lost ground with his departure... not just the confidence he had expressed in my ability, but his understanding of the feature. The Great Pierre, in the way I saw it, was of a new breed in newspaper continuity comics, where emotion took emphasis over high action. The story of Pierre LeGrand... nee Louis LeNoir... was not an account of his deeds alone, but of his thoughts, his feelings.

We Didn’t Know...

I am convinced L’Eveque saw that. I’m not sure anyone else did. Pierre had been put together by the thought process. If he was to say this or that, I was determined that to the best of my ability he was drawn to look like a person saying it... with appropriate expressions and gestures. There was no particular individual in mind, although much, much later I was to recall that frequently while drawing the character I kept seeing the face and spirit portrayed in the long career of film actor Gilbert Roland. To some extent it was the way it had been when I joined the Fawcett offices. No one had offered me a “character chart” on Captain Marvel. I don’t know that such a thing existed in 1941. It was necessary that I work things out for myself... and my first thoughts were to “improve” the art style... more realism... less comic cartoon... more light and shadow... depth... The theorizing was all wrong, of course, but no one, not even comics editor Ed Herron, not art director Al Allard... certainly not C.C. Beck... told me so. The simple style was the way the feature was winning readers. It was up to me to see it was the way to go.

MILLION FOR BROWN HOLDINGS IN LA.” “OMCC” meant the Olin Mathieson Chemical Corporation, with the main offices near where we stood. Headquarters and major manufacturing operations of the Brown properties were located in our community back home. Interesting to us, but no more than that... at the moment. Then, after the Connecticut flood in the Derby region, and our retreat southward, it came up again. For generations the major product of the manufacturing facilities in our part of the state had been industrial packaging. The plan of the new owners, Olin Mathieson, was to expand to include retail packaging. Retail packaging... the consumer market... shopper appeal... sophisticated graphic design. When the suggestion was raised that I consider the responsibility of assembling an art department in support of the program, I had a decision to make. The preparations for release of The Great Pierre to the newspapers were moving along at

Thinking about it, there was considerable similarity between the personalities of Pierre and the Captain Marvel I had known. The swampland adventurer had no super-powers, and no red outfit with cape... but he was another big, easy-going guy out to do the right thing. I did a lot of preliminary sketching in those days. I was a member of the local school board, and on the backs of old statements I find Pierre sketches... expressions... panel arrangements. All this was done on the sly... and I hasten to explain that I was able to do it and stay abreast of the business at hand. With Agnelli taking up the correspondence at the New York end, the alterations of The Great Pierre mounted, extending well into another year... and throughout my months with Charlton Publications. Most were helpful, but not all... the suggestion to curb the Cajun dialect, for example. I may have come on a bit heavy with it in the beginning, but a certain charm or color seemed to have been lost with the editing. I consider The Great Pierre to be my wave of farewell to the long list... and long years... of syndicate tries. As things turned out, it was my swan song to the comics as well. June, my wife, and I were in New Haven shopping when a newspaper headline blared: “OMCC PAYS 90

Ross of Eternity

Ross Of Eternity An Interview with Shazam! Power of Hope Artist ALEX ROSS Conducted by Walt Grogan Most Photos Courtesy of Walt Grogan, Alex Ross, and Sam Abbinanti

because he really didn’t know Captain Marvel from a hole in the ground. He didn’t know the character the way that I knew him from the Shazam! TV show in the ’70s and so many of his adventures.

[Since bursting on the comic book scene with Marvels in 1994 and continuing on with Kingdom Come in 1996, Alex Ross has become a fan favorite for his ultra-realistic paintings of both DC and Marvel super-heroes. For the last four years, Ross has focused his energy on DC’s icons: Superman, Batman, Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman. Alex was kind enough to participate in a phone interview on March 18, 2000, to talk about Captain Marvel, as well as reveal a bit about his upcoming project for DC Comics —PCH.]

FCA: Was working with him different from working with some of the other models you used for the other DC hero treasury-size series?

FCA: What was it like to work with Sam [Abbinanti, Ross’ model for Captain Marvel]?

FCA: What was your first exposure to Captain Marvel?

ROSS: Sam was willing to put himself through anything, ultimately. He took it as seriously as I did, when it came down to doing the actual work. Although all the comic people that knew him teased him relentlessly about it, as if it were something almost to be ashamed of. Since Kingdom Come, he sustained for years a number of different barbs from different people we know who would joke and make fun of the whole Captain Marvel connection. And, with Sam’s personality being what it is, it only invited more and more of that because he’s such a great ball-buster himself. But when it came to putting on the costume—because he went through like at least three different costumes during the course of what we did between Kingdom Come and Shazam! Power of Hope—he took it as seriously as he needed to. There was never a begrudging sense to it. He may not have actually cared anything initially about the material,

ROSS: I wouldn’t say that much different. Everybody is pretty amenable to the needs of the photo shoot. In reality, these people are a lot more forgiving than I am. I hate having to do photo shoots. It’s not a pleasant thing. And they pretty much made themselves available at my beck and call when I usually waited until the last possible second before I let them know when I needed to see them. They made time for me.

ROSS: Well, it’s hard for me to be sure because I know that my first Captain Marvel comic book was, of course, the Shazam! comics of the ’70s. It was the issue with a great cover by Ernie Chua where, I believe, Captain Marvel’s leg was caught in a huge mousetrap and three different mouse-creatures wearing capes or something are approaching him [Shazam! #21]. A wonderful piece of art. I can’t remember whether or not I had that comic before or after the TV show was already on the air. I would err on the side of thinking that my first exposure would clearly have to be the television icon, but very quickly I was seeing the comics. I mean, I first started seeing comic books when I was about three or four years old. And then around that 1975 or 1976 period would be when I started getting them more regularly and being exposed to more and more things.

Alex Ross

ROSS: Well, I guess it covers a lot of different lines. What I mean is, I try to describe it in ways that just don’t only relate purely to nostalgia. But, first, and to my young artistic mind, I loved the composition of the costume. I thought it was an excellent design. In fact, I liked it much more than Superman’s because blue and red are not necessarily complementary colors. They are almost opposites on the color spectrum— whereas red and yellow or red and gold go together so much better. The symbol was something much more graphic as opposed to a letter form. It was something that was understandable in any language—the lightning bolt. He has the cool gauntlets and the buccaneer-style boots that I always liked. I was always fascinated with the graphic design of his cape; that it wasn’t a normal cape in the way that we understand superhero costumes. It was almost like an ornamental piece. Much like something for ceremonial use and slung over one shoulder and not being long enough to serve much of a purpose. Again, graphically, I found that really fascinating. Jackson Bostwick flying high as Captain Marvel in the 1970s Shazam! CBS-TV series. [Photo courtesy of P.C. Hamerlinck.]

So my knowledge grew in that time period. So, yeah, the idea of the television actors portraying Captain Marvel and Billy Batson was probably that first exposure, but I immediately understood the difference in the comics. And as much as I loved that television show, I was asking questions like, “Well, why isn’t it like the comic? Why doesn’t the kid playing Billy Batson actually look like the kid and look like the same person as Captain Marvel, only younger?” For me, I identified that as an important facet of the character. FCA: So that leads into the appeal of Captain Marvel. What is that appeal for you?

And then, I think the face really got me. Because he had this very puckish expression—the eyes were always in a squint—the eyebrows were very angled, arched... it would have seemed that he was angry if it wasn’t for the fact that he was constantly smiling. And, of course, the very look of his hair was almost like Count Dracula. So there was something really kind of puckish or more mysterious about the look of this guy. I was really drawn to his face and the overall package graphically of everything there. And then, to get into things about the character, of course, there are so many interesting things in the world of Captain Marvel. The fact that Captain Marvel, at least by the time I was a kid, was still the chief archetypical character of someone being able to just sort of snap their fingers

Kingdom Come “Marvel Family” [and friends] tight-pencil character study sheets by Alex Ross, 1997, for DC Comics/Graphitti Designs. This chief Marvel Family piece includes the unused and unseen daughter of King Marvel/Captain Marvel Jr. and Lady Marvel/Mary Marvel in Kingdom Come. Courtesy of Keif Fromm. [Marvel Family, Spy Smasher, Bulletman, & Bulletgirl TM!& ©2002 DC Comics.]

The Power of Sam!

The Power Of An Interview with Shazam! Power of Hope’s Captain Marvel, SAM ABBINANTI Conducted by Walt Grogan Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck Photos Supplied by Walt Grorgan, Alex Ross, & Sam Abbinanti [Sal Abbinanti is Alex Ross’ art agent and friend, as well as being Ross’ model for Captain Marvel. “Sam” is an Italian nickname that Sal goes by. Sam’s likeness has been used for the Kingdom Come mini-series, the Shazam! Power of Hope tabloid, a Kingdom Come Captain Marvel statue sculpted by Ross, as well as posters and a Shazam! plate released through the now defunct Warner Bros. stores. This interview was conducted in mid-summer of 2001 over coffee at the famous Lou Mitchell’s restaurant in Chicago. Sam is a jovial, gregarious fellow who isn’t afraid of stepping on toes and speaking his mind. He can be reached through Alex Ross’ website: AlexRossArt <www.alexrossart.com> or through ComicBookPros <www.comicbookpros.com>, where he also represents several other leading artists.] FCA: How did you and Alex Ross meet? SAM: We met at a Chicago comic book store. We started talking and found out we knew some of the same people at Leo Burnett—he worked at Leo Burnett as a storyboard artist and I worked at a studio owned by Leo Burnett, so we knew a lot of the same people. So we started talking... this was before he was ALEX ROSS. FCA: You’re an artist, too. SAM: I was... I mean I still am, but I haven’t had the time. Before I became Alex’s art agent, I pounded the pavement for ten years trying to get into the business. I picked up some freelance gigs here and there, but nothing to scream about. My art style was just too gritty, and editors used to call it “too disturbing.” FCA: Do you represent any other artists? SAM: I handle Angel Medina, Ron Garney... and I just recently started taking on some of Jill Thompson’s stuff. FCA: How did Alex pick you as his model for Captain Marvel?

SAM: Marvels came out, it went through the roof, and then he started working on Kingdom Come. We were at a bar, and he was starting to sketch out Kingdom Come. We were laughing and joking around and he said, “You’d make a good Captain Marvel.” I had remembered Captain

Marvel from Saturday morning TV with Isis. I thought he was kidding, and then a couple of days later he called me and asked me about it again, and I said, “Yeah, let’s see what happens.” Then one day he handed me the costume and I told him there was no way I could fit my fat ass in that costume. But I wore the top—that’s all that would fit! FCA: How does Alex approach his art? His critics claim he paints from photographs. SAM: Alex starts with thumbnails. Amazingly tight. I mean the thumbnails are almost miniature pages. They’re not just sorta-kinda indications of where things are going to go. He gets it down to where everything is exactly going to be, and the facial expressions are exact and they’re so tiny... I don’t know how the heck he gets them that small. His philosophy is that he works out all the problems Sam Abbinanti has been Alex Ross’ model for on the thumbnails so that Captain Marvel ever since DC’s Kingdom Come series. [©2002 DC!Comics.] when he is painting all the problem-solving is out of the way. He doesn’t have to figure out what’s not working or what he has to fix. It’s amazing to see, ’cause some guys just make the miniversions and then they just blow them up. They light-box ’em. Alex doesn’t do that; he does the pencils, then he does a black-&-white version; then he adds the color. On some of ’em, if you see the black-&white version, it’s almost a crime that he goes ahead and colors them. Because the black-&-white versions are so cool-looking... there’s a ’60s black-&-white television show kind of look to it. He also does a lot of the big shots, which are the ones that are seen first. We call them the hero shots, so they can be used in promotional and solicitation material. He does those before he gets into the guts of the book. He’ll do pages out of sequence. The harder ones he’ll hand in later, so that gives him more time to finish them—pages like the big crowd shots. FCA: So he does tight thumbnail sketches. Does he then take the photos and then do the paintings? SAM: With Shazam! Power of Hope he came to me with thumbnails. Super-hyper, hyper-tight thumbnails. They’re an inch by an inch. He shows them to me and he says, “I need you to do this, I need you to do that.” He shows them to me and there might be some action pages where he’s not sure—like the pages with the alligators or the page where he’s pulling the rods out of the nuclear reactor—he’s wasn’t sure— sometimes he’s not sure—and asks me for suggestions, like if I can think of another action or maybe another pose, and then we’ll think about it. FCA: It sounds very collaborative. SAM: Sometimes. Most of the time he knows exactly what he wants.

Sam Abbinanti Ninety-nine out of a hundred he knows exactly what he wants. And we can get into arguments about it; he’ll think I’m not doing this right or I’m not doing that right. For example, the first page in Power of Hope—the origin sequence when Billy is yelling “Shazam!” and turning into Captain Marvel... we shot that in front of his house with end-ofthe-day sun. So he literally had me looking right into the sun and saying “Shazam!” Then, after five times, he says “Don’t squint” and “Don’t blink.” You try looking at the sun and keeping your eyes completely open! For other shots, he uses these photography lights—they’re more like those things that keep the fries warm at McDonald’s than photography lights. I’ve burned my ass on those things I don’t know how many times! These things get like 500 degrees because... I don’t know what he uses... cheap bulbs or something. And then we just go page by page. I was done in half an hour for Kingdom Come. Power of Hope was maybe four different sessions of two and a half hours each. He has to take some shots in pieces. With the flying shots, he has me lie down on a weight bench and I’ll put my arms out, but I can’t put my

how shadowing is, but it’s so unpredictable. If you take a photo it saves him a lot of time when he gets to the painting. Sometimes my reaction is, why don’t you just make it up? But this guy is amazing... that’s why I’m giving the interview and he is at home painting. FCA: So were you in full costume for the photo sessions? SAM: I was fitted for a costume that he had made. Now that he’s getting further along, he’s having costumes made. With Kingdom Come we faked it. We faked a top and we faked a cape and I wore army boots. But with Power of Hope he’s got this gal—she’s a seamstress. So she made the costume and he didn’t like the way it looked or fit or the seams were showing or something—he had some problems with it. So finally he had another one made—so we had to use pieces from three different costumes to make the final one. The seamstress made three different sashes and two or three different capes. He liked different elements of different costumes. She made a sash out of spandex and he didn’t like the way that looked, and then with one costume he liked the metallic look of the bolt—the other one she made had just a plain yellow bolt and he

Progress(ion) in the arts! Alex Ross’ thumbnail of Billy changing into Captain Marvel for the origin sequence of Shazam! Power of Hope—next, a tighter version of same—then the photo of Sam as Cap in front of one of Alex’s infamous “fry” lamps—and finally the finished, painted art. [Art ©2002 DC Comics.]

legs and my arms out at the same time. Then I’ll do one where I hold on and I’ll put my legs out. Then what he does is, he just connects them, so the ones where I’m flying—I’m usually just standing on my tip-toes, pointing to the ceiling. This guy is so meticulous that he even takes five different variations of the hand. You know, “Would you fly with your thumb out or would you fly with your thumb in?” Finally he let me decide, and I said, “Hey, I would fly with my thumb in,” because it’s more aerodynamic. You’d pull your thumb off. And he says, “I dunno,” and then finally we agree. Man, he takes pictures of every imaginable detail. I slicked my hair a little more because that’s what he wanted. FCA: Does he take photos for the lighting? SAM: A lot of it is the lighting. A lot of it is that he wants to get the folds in the materials. He likes to get the textures of how certain fabrics would look. We don’t do a lot with Captain Marvel’s cape, like blowing it with fans or anything. He just makes that up. For the most part everything is done in the thumbnails. The pictures are done to have references for lighting and things like that. When he’s on a deadline, he can make up anything. People are under the misconception because he takes pictures that he can’t draw. The reality is that, he can do all of this from his head. All the thumbnails are done first, and the photos come in to aid him when he’s painting: the lighting, how textures look, how to get certain things right without guessing. He can guess it. You can guess

didn’t like it. And then the other costume had the little details—the details in the cape, they were sewed in‚ he didn’t want those sewed in, he wanted them loose. We went with that cape. The gauntlets were spandex built in. The boots worked out great—she made boots—those were real boots. FCA: It must get expensive. SAM: He’s gotten to the point now where it’s worth it for him to have all these outfits. He’s going to use them again for something. Shazam! is pretty much just squint and smile... more or less. He tells you to squint... he tells you to smile and keep your teeth together, and then that’s Captain Marvel. FCA: Did you have to take any shots outside? SAM: Yeah, for the scene where Billy is out playing catch. Most of the Billy shots were shot in front of his house because he liked the lighting. He took some shots for references of buildings and different things at other places. Most of the shots were taken in his suburb. He did a lot of work at Children’s Memorial Hospital. He met someone over there who was very nice to him and let him come into the hospital and showed him around and that’s where he got some pictures of what the hospital looked like. He didn’t want to take any pictures of any of the kids because he didn’t think it was cool to take pictures of sick kids.

Roy Thomas’ Sub-Aqueous Comics Fanzine $

In the USA

5.95

No. 16 July 2002

Vol. 3, No. 16 / July 2002 Editor

™

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editors John Morrow Jon B. Cooke

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comics Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists Marie Severin & Ramona Fradon Alex Ross

Contents

Cover Colorists Marie Severin & Tom Ziuko Alex Ross

Mailing Crew

Russ Garwood, Glen Musial, Ed Stelli, Pat Varker, Loston Wallace

And Special Thanks to:

––in memoriam ––

Robert Kanigher & Tom Sutton

Writer/Editorial: The Man Who Hated Comics–– but Loved Comic Art . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 (Big John Buscema, who else?)

The Mighty Marvel Bullpen Reunion 2001 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 John Buscema, Gene Colan, John Romita, & Marie Severin interviewed by Mark Evanier.

Johnny B. & Me . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 Owen O’Leary, Buscema’s artist-rep, writes about a fabulous artist... and a great guy.

The John Buscema Workshop . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 Two of Big John's 1970s students talk about studying under a Silver Age great.

“Paul Gambi––Tailor to the (DC Super-villain) Stars!” . . . . . . . . 39 Bill Schelly talks to Paul Gambaccini about 1960s comics fandom and beyond. Marvel Family Section . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: At a comics convention a couple of years ago, Roy Thomas spotted Marie Severin and Ramona Fradon having brunch together—so naturally he couldn't resist (and not for the first time) trying to persuade them to do a tandem illustration of the underwater heroes each lady had drawn during the Silver Age: Sub-Mariner and Aquaman. Ye Editor was after nothing more than a battle between the sunken super-stars, but Marie and Ramona had something a bit more mischievous on their minds. Serves Roy right for interrupting their meal! [Art ©2002 Marie Severin & Ramona Fradon; Sub-Mariner TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Aquaman TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] Above: You saw “Kal-El the Barbarian” in A/E #13 & #15. Here are two more of John Buscema's character designs for JLA: Barbarians, the series he and Roy T. were working on when the artist passed away. The heroes’ names in the series would have been Fledor (from fledermaus, German for “bat”) and Velos (from “velocity”) for The Flash's counterpart in a gleaming age of swords and sorcery. [©2002 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11 elsewhere). Eight-issue subscriptions: $40 US, $80 Canada, $88 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Marvel Bullpen Reunion 2001

The Mighty Marvel Bullpen Reunion JOHN BUSCEMA, GENE COLAN, JOHN ROMITA, and MARIE SEVERIN Talk About “The Marvel Age of Comics” Panel Conducted & Edited by Mark Evanier All Photos Courtesy of Ralph Rawson Werner Transcribed by Brian K. Morris from a Videotape by Marc Svensson [Panel Moderator’s Intro: Okay, imagine the scene. It’s Saturday, July 21, and we’re upstairs at the 2001 Comic-Con International in San Diego. Longtime fans of Marvel Comics of the ’60s, ’70s, maybe even the ’80s are crammed into Room 8 to see and hear a panel featuring four of the keystone artists of that period: Marie Severin, Gene Colan, John Romita, and John Buscema. [And me? I’m the lucky guy that gets to interview and moderate.

artists Marvel ever had, whose main function in comics, good as the work on the pages was, was drawing insulting caricatures of the staff. [applause] Marie is in the dealer’s room during the day doing sketches and accepting commissions and I think they are woefully underpriced. If I were you I would go and throw a lot of money at her to buy a commissioned sketch before she wises up and triples the price... Marie Severin.

MARIE SEVERIN: I’m selling kisses, too. [applause, with a few [But the main thing you need to know I mention at the risk of audience members shouting “I’ve got a dollar! I’ve got ten!” etc.] sounding like Jerry Lewis on a telethon. ME: This next It’s that there was a lot gentleman drew about of love in that room. every Marvel book at We love what Marie, one time or another. I Gene, and the two don’t have to tell you Johns did... oh, maybe a list of them. I will not each and every mention, however, story, but certainly the that if you love his body of work. It meant work you might want a lot to all of us, and it to pick up The John was, by and large, darn Buscema Sketchbook good comic art. We which looks like this love their work, we [displays a copy of love them... and the book] and was especially we love the published by David camaraderie between Spurlock. David them, the almost Spurlock has put out a wonderful series of tangible mutual sketchbooks of not just respect. They’re each as John, but also he’s big a fan of the other [Photo, left to right:] Mark Evanier, Marie Severin, John Buscema, Gene Colan, John Romita. [Art, on opposite page: clockwise, from top left:]: Original commission pieces by John B., come out with The three as we are of all John R., Gene, &!Marie. Gene Colan piece courtesy of Michael Hranek; Marie's watercolor courtesy John Romita four. I think that comes of Robert Knuist, via Jerry K. Boyd; re-creation of cover of Silver Surfer #16 (May 1970) courtesy Sketchbook—he did across in what follows. of Owen O'Leary; Spidey meets R2-D2 courtesy of Mike Burkey. But why a place-card for The Wally Wood So does the devotion of John Romita, Jr? [Art ©2002 the respective artists; Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer, Mephisto, Captain Sketchbook, he did the audience. But I America, Spider-Man TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Artoo Detoo TM & ©2002 Lucasfilm.] The Al Williamson had to mention it here. Sketchbook, he did —Mark Evanier] The Amazing World of Carmine Infantino book. If I were you, I’d MARK EVANIER: I assume, if you’re here, you share my love for run down and buy the John Buscema one and I’d throw him money the period of Marvel Comics from the time F.F. #1 came out until to get John Romita. And now, would you please welcome Mr. John about the time they hired certain people who shall remain nameless. Buscema. [applause] [Cries of “Name them! Name them!” from audience.] Now, JOHN BUSCEMA: Thank you. By the way, you don’t get a kiss with obviously, we’re going to talk about other people like Stan Lee and a book. Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko and Don Heck. But the four people here produced an immense amount of wonderful comics. Let me introduce ME: I’ll take three. Those of you who were here the other afternoon them quickly to you. First, we have the latest inductee into the Will will probably not forget the wonderful surprise party for this next Eisner Hall of Fame—and that’s an impressive thing—one of the best

Buscema, Colan, Romita, & Severin

Marvel Bullpen Reunion 2001 until you’re dead and several other people in it are, too. Tell me everything you can about Marvel history.” He said that as far as he was concerned, there were several different eras of Marvel. There was a period where the staff was Jack, Steve Ditko, Don Heck, and Dick Ayers. He said that during that Gene Colan. period Stan was frantic to try and find another Kirby or Ditko. He felt he tried out a lot of pencilers during that time, guys like Carl Burgos, Bob Powell, and others, who just didn’t quite work out for him. They were very good artists but they didn’t give him the Marvel look. So then there came the second wave. And with the second wave he finally found some artists who could draw Marvel comics the way he wanted them, and co-plot the stuff— take a suggestion and build on it. One who could was Wally Wood, until Mr. Wood and Mr. Lee started quarreling over money and how much he’d be paid for penciling and Wally went elsewhere and started the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents. When Wally left, he was about to start doing a “Sub-Mariner” strip in Tales to Astonish. They gave that to Gene. Wally was inking The Avengers and Stan gave that to Mr. Romita and other people. Wally was drawing Daredevil, and they gave that, also, to Johnny Romita. And I know you’ve told these stories before, but I want to go back to that moment when you came back to Marvel and, having not done super-heroes for them recently, worked with Stan. Gene, do you want to tell us about the day they handed you a “Sub-Mariner” story to draw?

(Above:) Gene Colan & Vinnie Colletta kick off Tales to Astonish #70 (Aug. 1965)—plus (below right) Gene's pencils for a Namor panel in Captain Marvel #4 (Aug. 1968), courtesy of David G. Hamilton. We repro'd the inked version of the latter in A/E V3#6, in conjunction with our Gene Colan interview. If you missed it, you missed some great, rare Colan art! Besides, we just love selling back issues! [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

gentleman. You have certain artists—we have four examples here— you don’t know these people when you start reading the comics, but somehow, even though the stories aren’t always the most wonderful, there’s something about the warmth that always connects. You know, if you buy a comic that they drew, you’re not going to waste your time, because for twenty pages or so you will be transported into a wonderful world of very human people and very interesting villains and sexy women. People are gushing about the various ways [certain artists] drew sexy women, and I understand that... Will you welcome Mr. Gene Colan? [applause] And this gentleman—in my opinion, the worst thing this gentleman ever did was become art director at Marvel and not draw as many pages as he could have, because I always loved the way he drew Daredevil, the way he drew Spider-Man, the way he drew Captain America, the way he drew those wonderful love comics Marvel did. There’s really no talent I’d rather have than be able to draw like Mr. John Romita. [applause] I want to go back here, time-wise, to 1976. I went to a gentleman named Sol Brodsky, whom you may know was instrumental in Marvel’s history for years, and said, “I want you to give me an interview. Off the record. I won’t print this

GENE COLAN: Up to that point, I was doing crime stories, romance stories [for DC]—anytime they needed stories with a different character. I wanted to get on something that was permanent, where I could live with a character and deal with it all the time. I don’t really fully remember that was the first one, but if you say so, that’s okay with me. ME: How many people remember that Gene started off on “SubMariner”? [applause] COLAN: And then I didn’t like the character—impossible to draw, that flat head. I couldn’t make him look good, really. And I kept trying to round it off, but I knew that if I didn’t have it, it wouldn’t be SubMariner, so I stayed with it for a while.

Buscema, Colan, Romita, & Severin

white-out on it, all over the head. [to Marie] Did you do that? SEVERIN: No. ME: It was probably Sol Brodsky, then—redid the whole hairline. [to Colan] This is, of course, drawn by “Marvel’s newest Prince of Pageantry”—Adam Austin! Tell us about Adam Austin. Why were you Adam Austin? COLAN: I was working for DC at the time as well, and I didn’t want them to know I was at Marvel. [laughs] ROMITA: Can you imagine him hiding that style? They had no idea who did that page! COLAN: Stan said, “We’ll give you a new name, ‘Adam Austin.’” But I want to tell you something about fingers. Even today when I’m drawing a hand, I have to count the fingers. I have to do it. ROMITA: So there’s too many fingers on there. That’s why Disney only used three. COLAN: That’s right. (Above:) Colan & Abel's splash for Tales of Suspense #73 (Jan. 1966) plus (at right) a few panels from the story. Contrary to the way Mark heard the tale, though, Stan didn't rewrite "all" of Roy Thomas' copy—only about 50% of it! E.g., the non-splash panels are pretty much the way Roy had originally written them—working on tissue overlays, after-hours, at his corrugated-top desk in the Marvel offices—only to learn he wasn't gonna get paid freelance for it, 'cause it was considered part of his "staff writer" job! Stan took back the scripting with Gene's second "Iron Man" outing; Roy prefers to think he just couldn't resist writing dialogue for that beautiful artwork! [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ME: Now, Gene, your first “Sub-Mariner” story, did it look anything like this? [Mark pulls out the original art to the splash of the “Sub-Mariner” story from Tales to Astonish #70.] COLAN: Yeah, that’s it. ME: The first page you drew—and the amazing thing is that Vince Colletta inked this page, and The Sub-Mariner’s left hand is backwards. [laughs] Show it.

SEVERIN: Well, if you move down to Florida, they only have three. [laughs] ME: Now, Stan had you do a couple of “Sub-Mariners” and then he gave you another strip to do. What was that? Tell us about the next strip he stuck you on. COLAN: After “SubMariner”? ME: Yes. He gave you an “Iron Man” to do, correct? COLAN: Yeah, I didn’t want that one.

BUSCEMA: I’m going to argue with you, buddy.

ME: Did it look like this? [Mark pulls out the splash page of Gene’s first “Iron Man” from Tales of Suspense #73] Yes, the logo is cut off there, but you can read it.

ME: You don’t think it’s backwards?

ROMITA: Who inked it?

BUSCEMA: [studies the page] It looks okay to me. [laughs; passes the page to John Romita, who studies the page, then his own arm] No, it’s backwards. Okay. [laughs, applause]

ME: Jack Abel.

COLAN: I never noticed that. [Gene turns the page to the audience] He used to have a lot of two right hands.

ME: This is Gene’s first super-hero job for Marvel. It’s got a lot of

ROMITA: Oh yeah. That was a beautiful thing.

Owen O’Leary

Johnny B. And Me by Owen O’Leary When I was a kid growing up in the late 1960s, I loved reading and collecting Marvel Comics, and I really enjoyed the work of Jack Kirby, John Romita, and Gene Colan. But my favorite comic book artist was always John Buscema. Always. I was fortunate to meet John five times at various comics conventions over the years. The first time was in 1979 at a con in New York City. A few months later, in September of that same year, John was the special guest at a con in my hometown of Montreal, Canada. I didn’t see John again until 1993, when he came to a show in Toronto. I had brought along a book for him to sign that was written entirely in French; it contained interviews with artists from the worlds of animation, comic books, and newspaper strips. John had been one of the people interviewed, but when I handed him the book, he seemed really surprised to see it. He said that the guys from France who published the book were supposed to send him a copy but never did. Upon hearing that story, I told John that I would trade him the book for a pencil sketch. He agreed, and we spent the rest of the con having a great time talking about the comic book biz and drawing. Two weeks later, a large package from John arrived in the mail. It contained a full pencil drawing of The Punisher, plus twelve pencil-and-ink drawings that he thought I might like. After the Toronto con we started corresponding. Mostly we exchanged Christmas cards every year, and whenever I found a nice quote from another artist talking about John and his art I would send it to him, and he would usually reply. Seven years went by before I saw him again—this time at a show in White Plains, New York, in the summer of 2000. John didn’t recognize me right away, but when I introduced myself, he said, “Owen, how are you doing?” And then he turned to his wife Dolores and said, “Babe, this is the guy from Canada!” In November 2000 I put together an unofficial website on John and his artwork. A short time later, I received a letter from Johnny B., asking me if I wanted to work with him, obtaining commissions requests through the site. After thinking about it for all of two seconds, I called him up the next day and, just like that, we became The Official John Buscema Website! The last time I spoke to John in person was at last summer’s San Diego Comic-Con.

This, Owen says, is “the drawing that John sent me after I traded him that French book at the Toronto comic con in 1993.” [Art ©2002 estate of John Buscema; Punisher TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

It was great to see him, and to be there at the biggest con in the world as Big John Buscema’s representative. It was a real honor and a lot of fun working with John on the commission stuff. Apart from the birth of my son James T., it was one of the most amazing things to ever happen to me. (The “T.” in my son’s name stands for Thor, because Thor was always my favorite Marvel character, and Johnny B. drew the comic for so many years.) Being a huge fan of John’s art ever since I can remember, it was like a dream come true to be actually working with him. I was always a little nervous calling him up, but he was a great guy and he always put me at ease, even when I momentarily confused him by trying to describe to him some old Marvel cover that he had long forgotten about. We only worked together for a little over a year, but I’ll never forget the experience. I used to speak to John at least once or twice a week about commissions. I’ll always remember anxiously picking up the phone to call him to ask him the price for a re-creation of what is arguably one of his most popular Marvel covers ever, only to be alarmed when he groaned loudly over the phone and I heard that familiar voice of his with that great Brooklyn accent practically spit out the words, “Aw, crap! Not that G$@*% Silver Surfer # 4 again! I’ve done that @#$% cover so often, I can do it in my sleep!” I think the quintessential Big John Buscema moment for me, and the one that best captures and illustrates his arm’s-length relationship with comic books, is the time I asked him about the price for a commission

About Me & Johnny B John liked to let on that he didn’t care about his artwork once it left his drawing table, but the truth of the matter was that he hated seeing his pencils inked by other people. But, apart from his brother Sal, Tom Palmer, and a few other inkers, John never liked the way his work looked after it was inked. Unfortunately, the demands of meeting a monthly deadline and of earning a good living for his growing family did not allow him the luxury of the time he needed to ink his own artwork. Nonetheless, John has left behind a tremendous body of work for his fans to remember him by, and for future comic book fans to discover. But John’s legacy doesn’t stop at just the untold amount of comic books he drew. It includes the hundreds and perhaps thousands of people who were influenced by him and his beautiful drawings to become artists themselves. At the e-mail address we set up to receive condolence messages for John’s family (<johnbuscema2002@yahoo.com>), many fans talked about how much they loved his art and especially the book How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way that he and Stan Lee wrote in 1978. From graphic artists to comic book pencilers, animators, and designers, people mentioned what a huge influence that book was in their lives. It seems that hundreds of John’s fans decided to follow his example and make their living in the art field. For a poor kid from South Brooklyn, and the proud son of a humble Italian barber, that’s not a bad legacy. It was a privilege to work with him, and I will always be grateful to him for giving me the opportunity. John Buscema was a special person, and, like a lot of people who knew and loved John, I will miss him.

of a rather famous comics character, and John nonchalantly asked me: “Who’s The Spirit?” I remember thinking afterwards that only John Buscema, one of the most legendary artists in the history of the comics industry and a man who spent almost fifty years of his life drawing comics, could tell me that he never heard of The Spirit and not really care if he had or not. John would usually just brush off my attempts at complimenting him for doing another terrific job on a fan’s commission. But one time he said to me, “What d’you expect? I’m the best man in the business.” We both laughed after he said it, and I felt good knowing that John had such great pride in his drawing ability and knew that he was good and was proud of the high esteem that the industry and fellow pros held for him and his work. Unlike many of his contemporaries, John’s drawing style never went out of fashion; so even after his retirement from Marvel in 1996, editors were continually calling him up and offering him work. John told me that he knew of a lot of “top guys” his age who had trouble finding jobs, so he said he felt very lucky that he was still in such high demand. Growing up poor had a profound effect on John. He took his responsibilities as a family man and provider very seriously, and was a hard worker all his life.

“This is a poster-size charcoal drawing that John was selling at the first con where I ever met him in person,” Owen informs us. It was in 1979 in New York City, and I paid him $25 US for it.” [Art ©2002 estate of John Buscema; Conan TM & ©2002 Conan Properties, Inc.]

The John Buscema Workshop

The John Buscema Workshop [INTRODUCTION: For a couple of years beginning in 1975, John disproved that old adage “Those who can’t, teach” by holding an ongoing workshop for aspiring comics artists. He never intended it to be a full-fledged institution like Joe Kubert’s School of Cartoon and Graphic Art; yet it did produce, in that relatively short time, several comics professionals. During its first year John played a more handson part in the workshop; in the second year, by most accounts, others played a larger role. John had many guest speakers during this period, including Stan Lee and even Alter Ego’s editor. A/E is grateful to two of John’s first-year “students,” Joe Heffernan and Kevin Weremeychik, for the following pair of anecdote-filled reminiscences of that time, and what it meant to them. —Roy.]

PART I

The Gospel According to John Buscema by Joe Heffernan Well, where to start... John taught the school for two years. The first year, the one in which I attended, he taught himself, though he always had guest speakers come in. That class ran for 42 weeks, two nights a week, from fall of 1975 to almost June of ’76. The first part of the session we met at the Hotel Commodore; and when they closed that to build Donald Trump’s hotel, the class moved to the Biltmore Hotel, right around the corner. The second year, the class was taught for (I believe) twelve weeks, with John teaching the first three weeks, then having other artists teach the remaining weeks. I know that Gil Kane was supposed to do a few of the classes, but I believe he backed out either right before or after the first class. I also believe that Marie Severin, Don Heck, and John Romita were supposed to be involved, but of course time has made these memories a little fuzzy, since I was not involved in that second year.

entertaining, and sometimes about the comic business. If only we had a dime for every time John uttered “JEEEE-ZUS CHRIST!” and then laced into something! I don’t think he ever laughed harder. And John could draw anything... I mean ANYTHING, in any setting, in any position! We were so blessed and lucky to be there for that first year. And he didn’t just teach us art; he taught us about the art business. And, more importantly, Buscema artist-rep Owen O’Leary sent us this about life in general. drawing by “a fan from Brazil”—and no, he wasn’t one of John’s students—but we thought this fine

Anything John said to caricature made a perfect lead-in to this piece. us became gospel. If he “Bira’s” real name is Ubiratan Libanio Dantas de mentioned a comic artist Araujo, by the way. [Art ©2002 Bira.] he thought was good, we would run out the next day to this comic store in New York City (Supersnipe, to be exact), wait in line for the store to open, and buy whatever we could. John always mentioned that Jack Kirby was in a class by himself and that nothing could compare to Kirby. But the big surprise was when he mentioned that Joe Kubert was, in his opinion, the best comic book artist in the field. I felt bad for that comic store owner when about eight of us were in line the next day waiting for him to open. He figured he’d hit a gold mine. When we asked for every Kubert war comic he had, he was pretty disappointed. In those days Kubert war comics went for about 25¢ to a buck-fifty each. Ten bucks and we were in heaven.

We would come in with books drawn by what we thought was the hot artist of the week, and John would look at the stuff and either This simple, art-less ad ran in all Marvel comics show us how the artist “fooled” you or how it cover-dated September and October 1975, and thus “didn’t work.” With John, everything would be on sale by late spring/early summer. broken down into basic shapes. John must have As a student of John’s during the first year said the words “sphere,” “tapered cylinder,” and “tapered cube” a of his workshop, the first thing I found out is that no one ever wanted to million times. He took a copy of a painting that Frank Frazetta did and miss a class. We’d get there as early as we could and would stay as late as showed us that if you broke it down into those basic shapes, it didn’t possible. work—but the presentation and finishes “fooled” the reader into thinking that the figure was dynamic, and that made it a successful illusHis first class started right off when he said in that great growl of his, tration. “I HATE COMICS... but it pays the bills”—and the last class ended when my friend and fellow student Rob Doorack brought in a gallon of And, boy, did he hate “noodlers”! John loved the solid, honest type wine that was, as we called it, “aged on the truck.” John took us all out of illustration. He felt that the more lines an artist put into the illusto dinner afterwards, but I was so loaded I ran out of the old Brew and tration, the more it either weakened the original drawing or the artist Burger and threw up the wine. John commented, “Hey... that reminds was trying to hide his poor craftsmanship (which, most of the time, was me of me of VE-Day !” We had a big laugh about that for years. the case!). John would come in and start off with some story; it was always

The Gospel According to John Buscema

John surely told his students to expect a bit of rejection. Owen O’Leary says these are “John’s rejected pencils for the cover of Silver Surfer #5 (April 1969). A fan had a copy of them and paid John to ink them.” Both penciled and inked versions are probably being seen here for the first time. [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

John also said that each additional line that you drew on a person’s face could age him ten years. He drew this face of a young teenager and then, demonstrating his point right in front of us, he drew about eight or nine lines and the guy looked like Aunt May from Spider-Man. It was sort of like watching Houdini perform magic. We couldn’t believe it. And the illustrators—J.C. Lyendecker, Maxfield Parrish, N.C. Wyeth, Dean Cornwell, George Bridgman, and so many others. Hours were spent talking about these guys. We didn’t know much about them then, but we sure do now! John introduced us to commercial illustration that totally changed the way we thought about art forever. I have to mention the guests who visited John’s class, and some of his reactions. The best was Don Heck. Don was a shy guy but had come to visit as a favor to John. And we’re all thinking, “Why Don Heck? Is he here for lessons?” I mean, we thought we were going to change the comic book world. John gets up to the board and presents a problem to us. We’re drawing on our pads when John bellows out, “Don, c’mon up here and show these guys how you would handle this.” Don didn’t want to come up, but John could be very persuasive. So, Don gets up and we’re all snickering, saying to ourselves, “What can he show us?” Well, Don Heck said, in a very quiet voice, “Here’s how I’d do it,” and it was like a Honeymooners episode—Zip, Zip—it’s done. Our mouths dropped to the floor. You never saw a room full of artists start

copying everything Don Heck said and did! Don Heck was a genius! And we surrounded Don after class for anything he could tell us about storytelling. And John knew... he knew we would be blown away by this guy. He stood there with that smirk on his face and taught us another lesson of life. Boy, talk about humble humility. And, of course, the next day a bunch of us met at the comics store and we grabbed every Don Heck book we could find, again, much to the dismay of that comics store owner. Now, Vinnie Colletta... that’s another story. It’s right before the second Marvel Convention in New York City and John announces that we’re actually going to do a class as a demonstration for fans at that show. Plus, we’re going to have a few tables where we can sit and draw for people. John says that Colletta is going to come in with the details. About a half hour later, in strolls Colletta... with two of the most gorgeous girls we ever saw on each arm, wearing these slinky outfits. Colletta ignores us as if we’re lower than dirt... and rightfully so. Oh my God... those girls! We’re thinking to ourselves, if we become comic artists, we’ll get girls like this. Colletta gives John the information and then John walks Colletta and the girls to the elevator. When John walked back in, the first words out of his mouth were, “JEEE-ZUS CHRIST!” We must have laughed about that for a half hour. Needless to say, John set us straight about those girls.

The John Buscema Workshop

My good friend and fellow student Kevin Weremeychik brought in two very prominent, well-known comic book artists, who inked John on the Conan books, to meet him. John didn’t know they were coming, but he was very gracious and, honestly, these guys looked as if they were meeting God. They stayed for a while, writing down everything that John said and did. So John calls us over at the next class and said, “JEEEE-ZUS CHRIST! Guys... please, if you’re gonna invite someone, let me know first. I hate the way they ink my stuff ! I mean, they’re nice guys but...” And then he started laughing and starts going on about inkers. (Just so you know, his favorite inker on his pencils was his brother Sal.) John starts telling us this story about this artist overseas who he loves on his work. His name escapes me—though I think it might have been Steve Gan in the Philippines—but two weeks later John comes in and says, naturally, “JEEZ-SUS CHRIST, every time I get an inker I like, something happens!” It turned out that this inker was sending back inked pages that were done on a light box, not directly on John’s pencils. The inker Actually, John laid out four issues of Marvel’s Tarzan after Roy’s departure—all of them edited by kept the penciled pages, and when he was confronted his former student Bob Hall (as per #15, Aug. 1978)! Later, when his brother Sal had become the penciler, Bob inked several issues, such as #25 (June ‘79). One of Bob’s student drawings ran in about it, he said that he loved John’s penciled pages so our last issue. [©2002 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.] much, he couldn’t bear to destroy that beauty. Of course, I don’t think he ever worked again. But John’s himself about four feet off the ground on the wall and nearly throwing pencils were incredible and we felt totally understandable about the himself out a window. And John’s face is like, well, you guessed it— guy’s dilemma. “JEEEE-ZUS CHRIST!” and of course he rolls his eyes up! When Stan left, we went on for about an hour of stories about Stan and how he Then there was Stan! would do stuff like that all the time. John comes in, teaches the class, and towards the end tells us that the There are so many stories, but I’ll tell this last one about a guest who guest next week will be Stan Lee. Man, the blood went to our feet. John really wasn’t there. got a big kick out of our reaction. One of the guys in the class—Fred Greenberg, I believe—actually videotaped Stan’s visit. Anyway, Stan At this point, I think, we were at the Biltmore Hotel. This room had comes in and literally big, billowing red velvet curtains, and we always had a window open. explodes, explaining So, about a half hour before John comes in, another fellow student, the Marvel way of Bruce Patterson, who was working at the time over at Neal Adams’ comic book illusContinuity Studios, strolls in whistling away, “I know a secret... I know tration. John’s best a secret...” We’re all ears at this point, and, after much prodding and reaction to Stan’s visit groveling, he tells us that Carmine Infantino has been fired as editor-incame when Stan was chief at DC Comics. The reasons behind it have been subject to gossip explaining the and rumors and I won’t go into them; but, needless to say, for young difference between DC comic book artists, it was fodder for fun. John came in, and as soon as Comics and Marvel he started teaching the class, the wind blew in the window and rustled Comics fight scenes. the curtain. Now we’re screaming, “It’s Carmine... he’s behind the He said that when a curtain... he’s brushing up and taking lessons... he’s gonna become a guy got hit in a DC penciler again!” John put this funny, puzzled look on his face. We Comic, although explained to him the situation and he said, “JEEZ-SUS CHRIST... nicely drawn, he how’d you find out about that?” And we talked for a good hour about looked “like this”— the business of comics. and he slightly bent his body backwards and John invited us to dinner at his house a couple of times (his wife put a grimace on his makes the best Italian food you ever tasted!). We were there when John face. “Now,” said Stan, showed us this “new take” he was going to do on Tarzan, and he was “when a guy gets hit in really excited about it. About an hour later, while we were there, he got a Marvel Comic, this is a call from Roy Thomas in California saying he’s quitting the book what it looks like.“ because ERB, Inc., accused him of plagiarism (that’s an interesting story And then he in itself). John, of course, refused to work on the book unless Roy wrote proceeded to fling it. And he was in agony about that, saying, in that “JEEEZ-SUS himself from one side CHRIST” growl again—this is what he gets for getting all worked up on of the room to the a job, and something like this always happens. We joked about it all John was happiest with Conan the Barbarian covers other side, slamming night. (and interiors) when he inked them himself, as per this cover for issue #91. Courtesy of Owen O’Leary. [©2002 Conan Properties, Inc.]

Title Comic Fandom Archive

“Paul Gambi---Tailor To The DC Super-Villain Stars!” An Interview With PAUL GAMBACCINI Conducted by Bill Schelly Transcribed by Brian K. Morris Introduction: Even though Paul Gambaccini’s name appears on numerous pages in my 1995 book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, his role in those halcyon days was probably given short shrift therein. This may have been partly due to the fact that he dropped out of fandom halfway through the 1960s; certainly it’s partly because I simply didn’t look hard enough for him and thus hadn’t talked with him when I was working on the book. For starters, Paul was one of the most frequent names to show up in the letter columns in DC comics edited by Julius Schwartz. He also succeeded founder Jerry Bails as Executive Secretary of the Academy of Comic Book Arts and Sciences. He was a founding member of comics apa Capa-alpha, and he wrote a popular series of columns for The Rocket’s Blast-Comicollector. All this before 1965!

show religiously, I had my “road to Damascus” experience at the house of a school classmate called Jon Haskett. Jon’s sister had a pile of Mad magazines! I asked him if I could look through them and he said yes. In the middle of the stack, for some unknown reason, was a copy of Giant Superman Annual #1. I remember it was the summer of 1960 because I was just so thrilled by this comic that I had to go out and buy it... and it was still on sale. I found it at a store called the Westfair Smoke Shop. In addition to the Annual, I remember buying Flash #114 with a Captain Cold cover. Also, I think Green Lantern #1 was out at that time. I bought all the DC superhero comics except Wonder Woman. I read these comics and loved them so much that I even went back and bought the Wonder Woman!

If you’re asking what happened to Paul Gambaccini, then you probably didn’t read Rolling Stone in the 1970s, when he was a contributing editor of that magazine. Later he went into radio, moved to England, and has worked there for the BBC ever since. I was happy to be able, on January 6, to conduct a long-overdue interview with this accomplished fellow, with special emphasis (of course) on the comics and fannish activities of the early ’60s—that exciting time when fans were coming out of the woodwork to form a grassroots movement to celebrate their hobby.

The Westfair Smoke Shop BILL SCHELLY: Paul, let’s start with your earliest awareness of comic books. PAUL GAMBACCINI: I was born the second of April, 1949, in the Bronx, New York. And it was in the Bronx—before my family moved to Connecticut in 1955—that I remember seeing my first comics. My grandmother used to read me the Donald Duck stories from Walt Disney’s Comics and Stories. In the 1950s Walt Disney’s Comics and Stories and Little Lulu were ubiquitous in barbershops and doctors offices. BILL: At what point did you feel yourself becoming aware of the Silver Age super-heroes? PAUL: Although I recall watching the George Reeves Superman TV

(Above left:) Paul Gambaccini at 15, in a blow-up of a fuzzy photo that appeared in Fantasy Illustrated #3 (1964)... and the cover of Giant Superman Annual #1, the comic that started it all rolling for Paul in the summer of 1960. [Art ©2002 DC!Comics.]

I was eleven. That’s when I decided I would buy every DC comic, except for the war comics. I was too young for war, I think. But I was already a great science-fiction fan. I read books by Isaac Asimov. I must have been one of the youngest subscribers to The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. I read sciencefiction novels, which is probably one of the reasons why I gravitated to Julius Schwartz immediately with Mystery in Space and Strange Adventures.

BILL: You were awfully young to be reading Asimov, weren’t you? PAUL: I read a lot as a boy. What can I say? When you’re young, you don’t think of yourself as being young. BILL: True. But precociousness at an early age is sort of a central theme in how I see your fannish involvement, because all your dealings with comics fandom took place before you were sixteen. You got into fandom at the very beginning, and yet you were much younger than most of the other active fans. PAUL: Maybe it can be explained because we never met in person. We corresponded... and I was always a good typist. I think a lot of people thought I was older than I was because I could type.

“Paul Gambi”

Editor Julius Schwartz (on left) and one of the writers Paul mentions—Gardner Fox—starred, along with some Sid Greene-drawn aliens, in “The Strange Adventure That Really Happened!” in Strange Adventures #140 (May 1962). [©2002 DC Comics.]

BILL: You knew Jerry Bails was a grown man.

because every Tuesday and Thursday, which were the new-comic days, she would set aside one copy of each new comic for me to have dibs on. PAUL: Yes, I knew he was old because it was well known that he was a I would come in after school, every Tuesday and every Thursday, and college professor. I was in awe of Jerry Bails. I’d go through them—and the ones I didn’t want, BILL: But we’re getting Paul Gambaccini’s recipe for getting his first fan-letter published, in The Flash #122 (June 1961). she’d put back on the ahead of ourselves. Can He finally won some original Infantino art for his letter to #137. [©2002 DC Comics.] racks. That way, I did you tell me more about manage to get every issue your comic book reading of the DC books and habits in the year or so then, ultimately, the before you got into Marvel books when fandom? Fantastic Four kicked in. PAUL: I was in love with BILL: How was it that these DC books, particuyou felt moved to write larly the Schwartz books. I letters to comic book had two brothers. Peter was letter columns? one year younger than I, and Phillip was three years younger. We PAUL: In The Flash Julius Schwartz had divided up the comic book buying. Our little started to give away artwork to some of brother bought Justice League of America the letter-writers. I thought, “Gee, I’m because he didn’t have much money, so he going to win some of that.” That was my wanted as many super-heroes as possible for initial incentive. I wrote a letter that was his 10¢. Phillip still has his JLA #1. Peter got printed in Flash #122. It was actually a the Batman titles—Batman, Detective, and postcard. It’s unlike any of the letters I World’s Finest—because I just thought they subsequently wrote because it’s clearly a were dross. novelty letter, designed to catch BILL: The titles edited by Jack Schiff were obviously geared toward the youngest comic book readers. PAUL: I’m afraid to say that, for all of the friends that he had at DC, I thought that his books were just the worst, and that includes Tales of the Unexpected and My Greatest Adventure. BILL: Whereas the comics edited by Julie Schwartz— PAUL: There would be aliens in Schwartz’s titles, but they would be credible science-fiction-type aliens. I loved the fact that Schwartz and Fox and Broome took the story so seriously that they would always have these footnotes about how these incredible happenings were scientifically possible. I had a paper route, so I had the money to buy all the Schwartz and Weisinger books. I never got over to the romance side. For a long time, I didn’t even know they were publishing romance books, because the Westfair Smoke Shop didn’t keep them in the same section. I am deeply indebted to the woman of this mom-and-pop shop

somebody’s attention. Well, it caught Julie’s attention enough to print it but not to get me the art.

Discovering Comic Fandom BILL: That meant your full mailing address appeared in the book... PAUL: Yes, and Jerry Bails sent me a copy of Alter-Ego #1. Until then, I had not known that comic fandom existed. It arrived on a Saturday morning. I remember that because I was extremely excited and I put it on the ledge of the playroom, we used to call it. That’s where my father used to watch TV. When my father saw it, he said, “How can you read this trash?” [laughs] Well, I’ve got to make a decision. Do I value this or do I value my father’s opinion? And I thought, “Frankly, I love this.” So I knew I was deeply in. I just devoured it. But I can imagine that anyone looking at Roy’s BLA cover [laughs] had to wonder what was going on at the time: “What is this?” But to me, it was just the essence of excitement.