Alter Ego #39

FULL-ISSUE FOCUS ON GOLDEN AGE GREAT

JERRY ROBINSON Talks to to JERRY Talks JIM AMASH

BOB KANE MORT MESKIN GEORGE ROUSSOS FRED RAY BERNIE KLEIN SIMON & KIRBY DICK SPRANG CHARLES PARIS HAL SHERMAN CHARLIE BIRO BOB WOOD STAN LEE SIEGEL & SHUSTER SHELLY MOLDOFF IRWIN HASEN STAN GOLDBERG STEVE DITKO ERIC STANTON BOB FORGIONE BURNE HOGARTH & MORE!

PLUS:

AL FELDSTEIN FILLS IN

MICHAEL T. GILBERT ABOUT

WALLY WOOD

Batman, Robin, Joker TM & ©2004 DC Comics.

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Vol. 3, No. 39 / August 2004

™

Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Covers Artist Jerry Robinson

Covers Color and Layout Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to: Ger Apeldoorn Don Mangus Bob Bailey Herb McGrath Tim Barnes Peter Meskin Allen Bellman Philip Meskin John and Friedel Raymond Miller Benson Jason Millet Bill Black Sheldon Moldoff Jerry K. Boyd Matt Moring Chris Brown Frank Motler Sam Burlockoff Jake Oster Bill Cain Joe Petrilak Mike Catron Seth Powell Bob Cherry Jerry, Gro, Jens, Sidra Cohn & Kris Robinson Chet Cox Steven & Sharon Rowe Dwight Decker Dennis Roy Al & Michelle Feldstein John Schaefer Keif Fromm Eric Schumacher Janet Gilbert David Siegel Dick Giordano Flo Steinberg Stan Goldberg Richard Steinberg Scott Goodell Marc Swayze Ron Goulart Dann Thomas Dennis Hager DeSha Tolar Jennifer T. Michael Uslan Hamerlinck Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Peter Hansen Dr. Michael J. Ron Harris Vassallo David Anthony Kraft Hames Ware Jane D. Leavey Ron Webber Dan Makera Eddy Zeno Joe & Nadia Mannarino

This Issue Is Dedicated to the Memory of

GILL FOX

JERRY ROBINSON Part One

Contents Writer/Editorial: Jerry’s Boys–– and a Couple of Great Ladies, Too! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Building “Batman”––and Other True Legends of the Golden Age . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Jerry Robinson talks to Jim Amash about being Bob Kane’s Golden Age ghost.

Comic Crypt: “My World: The Al Feldstein Interview,” Part II . . 39 Michael T. Gilbert concludes his e-mail talk with the great EC editor/writer/artist.

Jerry Robinson (Part II), FCA, & “re:”. . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us!

About Our Cover: Several years back, Jerry Robinson did a limited-edition of this cover he had drawn, with a few minor differences, six decades ago for Detective Comics #70 (Dec. 1942). It seemed the perfect choice to front the initial half of Jim Amash’s interview with Bob Kane’s first regular “Batman” ghost. [Art ©2004 Jerry Robinson; Batman, Robin, & Joker TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

Above: Jerry R. also sent us a couple of “split” drawings of Batman and his arch-nemesis The Joker. Here’s the Dark Knight Detective—or at least half of him! [Art ©2004 Jerry Robinson; Batman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.

Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada.

FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

2

Jerry’s Boys–and a Couple of Great Ladies, Too!

Jerry Robinson, just in case you’re not already aware of it, has had a fabulous, multi-faceted career which isn’t over yet, even at age 82! He’s probably best-known to comic book fans and collectors, of course, as one of the earliest and indisputably best of Bob Kane’s assistants and ghosts on Batman and Detective Comics—but true Golden Age aficionados often get equally starry-eyed over his late-’40s collaborations with Mort Meskin on The Black Terror and The Fighting Yank, or over his work solo or with George Roussos on The Green Hornet, Atoman, et al. And he did plenty of great non-super-hero work, as well, on westerns and war comics and crime capers and love stories—for DC, Timely/Marvel, Harvey, Prize, Standard/Nedor, and others!

All that fabulous comic book work, however—while inevitably a primary interest of a magazine which is, after all, titled Alter Ego and focuses mostly on super-hero comics—was for Jerry just a prelude to a career that has spanned comic strips, authoring and editing books, doing commercial and

advertising illustration, and many other areas. In addition, you’ll read in these pages about some philanthropic activities of his that may take your breath away. (Let’s just say, it doesn’t consist simply of giving spare change to worthy causes.)

So we decided to devote virtually an entire issue to Jerry, his work, and his family—his wife Gro and his children Jens and Kristin—keeping just enough extra room to squeeze in our regular FCA and “Comic Crypt” and (lest we fall hopelessly behind, once and for all) letters section.

What’s more, if your appetite is whetted to know even more about Jerry Robinson and his art, you’ll find a prominent mention on our flip side of a soon-upcoming art exhibit of his own and others’ super-hero work that may wind up in your neighborhood one of these fine days.

And if it doesn’t—well, take it from us, it’s worth traveling to!

Bestest,

COMING IN SEPTEMBER NOW MONTHLY!

40

# ™

TITANS THREE!

SCHWARTZ –– KANE––& HEATH!

• Never-before-seen full-color covers by GIL KANE & RUSS HEATH! Above:

• RUSS HEATH—an in-depth interview by JIM AMASH, featuring metric tons of both classic & oft-unpublished Heath art—war, horror, science-fiction, and super-heroes!

Art ©20

• GIL KANE interviewed by DANIEL HERMAN—plus “Sort of The Atom” & scarce Kane art—from DC, Marvel, et al.!

04 the

• JULIE SCHWARTZ Tribute—The Sequel! The transcript of the March 2004 Memorial Service, with HARLAN ELLISON, ALAN MOORE, NEIL GAIMAN, IRWIN HASEN, DENNY O’NEIL, PAUL LEVITZ, MICHAEL USLAN, MIKE CARLIN, et al.—showcasing rare art by CARMINE INFANTINO, MURPHY ANDERSON, ALEX TOTH, IRV NOVICK, DICK DILLIN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOE KUBERT, JOE GIELLA, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, etc.!

yright h

ive cop

respect olders

• Plus a never-before-seen 1965 SCHWARTZ–INFANTINO interview by SHEL DORF— memories of Julie by NEAL ADAMS & others—& the untold story of Julie’s agenting of H.P. LOVECRAFT! • Plus: AL FELDSTEIN rates the EC greats for MICHAEL T. GILBERT—FCA with MARC SWAYZE & the Fawcett/Charlton Connection, Part II—BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom—MARK EVANIER pays tribute to JACK BRADBURY—& MORE!!

Edited by ROY THOMAS • 108 PAGES! ; il Kane ate of G ics 004 Est Art ©2 2004 DC Com © heroes

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3

Building “Batman”—and Other True Legends of the Golden Age Part I of Our Gargantuan Interview with Legendary Comics Artist JERRY ROBINSON Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

[NOTE: Unless otherwise noted, all art and photos accompanying this interview were provided by Jerry Robinson.]

“They Tell Me I Was Drawing Pictures in Kindergarten”

[INTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Jerry JIM AMASH: When and where were Robinson stands among the top rank of you born?

Golden Age comic book innovators. His contributions to the Batman legend are JERRY ROBINSON: I was born in monumental: he added a slick, illusTrenton, New Jersey, January 1, 1922, to trative style to Bob Kane’s cartoonBenjamin and Mae Robinson. I was born ishness, was key in the development of just at midnight. They told me that the Robin, Alfred the butler, and, perhaps bells of the New Year were ringing as I most importantly, originated the most made my debut. fantastic of the Batman villains: The Joker. This restless, creative force built I had three brothers, who are all on his laurels in the field of syndication deceased. My eldest brother Harold was with newspaper features like Jet Scott, a dentist; Avner was a surgeon Flubs and Fluffs, Still Life, and the chiropodist, and Maury was a lawyer. I amazing Life With Robinson. He also have an older sister Edythe, who was a wrote the hardcover book The Comics: photographer before she raised her An Illustrated History of Comic Strip family. I was the baby of the family.

Art. In addition, Robinson has been a Harold was 17 years older than me. I’m champion of creators’ rights. He was very close to all my nieces and instrumental in getting Jerry Siegel and nephews—they are like my own children Joe Shuster their long-awaited due for to me.

Jerry Robinson in the Times Building in Times Square, circa 1940Superman, and has worked behind the 41—and in his studio, in 2003—juxtaposed with one of his most JA: So you were the only artist in the scenes for others, as well. We don’t know famous cover drawings, for Detective Comics #71 (Jan. 1943). family.

What got you interested in how many awards are left for Jerry to Reproduced from the original art. [Comic art ©2004 DC Comics.] that? win (there’s a partial list at the end of this interview on our flip side); but if ROBINSON: I had always drawn as a kid, but not seriously. I assumed there are any, we have a feeling he’ll get those before long, too. Join I’d be in some profession, but the only thing I actively wanted to be was us now for a thorough look into the astounding career of a great artist a writer and a journalist. The art, professionally, came quite accidentally. and a fascinating man: Jerry Robinson. —Jim]

4

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I a rejection letter back, but I was so proud that they actually responded. I showed it to everyone!

As for the comics, the newspapers I saw were the Philadelphia Record and the Inquirer. They had big comics sections and I looked forward to seeing them on Sundays, both the humor and the adventure strips. Some of my favorites were Hal Foster’s Tarzan, Milton Caniff’s Terry and the Pirates, Bringing Up Father, and Mutt and Jeff. I read them all. As a kid, when I went away to camp, my parents would send me some of the reprint books... you know, the ones with the cardboard covers. In fact, I still own some of them from the early 1930s.

Jerry’s mother and father in Atlantic City, circa 1920—and Jerry playing baseball at camp, age 9, 1931.

I drew for my high school paper and was an editor. They tell me that I was drawing pictures in kindergarten; while everyone was doing lessons, I was on the floor drawing pictures. I remember drawing a picture of an elephant standing on a mountain peak...how he got there, I don’t know. [laughs] At nine or ten, I’d be sitting on the floor drawing portraits of my family while they sat around talking.

I drew posters for my high school’s plays, like The Pirates of Penzance. I took all academic courses for the credits needed for college.

At that point, I was thinking about journalism as a career. I applied to Penn, Syracuse, and Columbia, on the advice of my high school counselor. I was seventeen when I graduated from high school.

JA: But a funny thing happened along the way to college. [laughter] ROBINSON: Right! Or a funny thing happened on my way to Syracuse. I had decided to go there. Penn was in Philadelphia (I knew the city), Columbia was in New York (which I didn’t know anything about at the time), but my vision of college came from my time spent at Princeton University, which was a few miles from Trenton. I played tennis there. It was a small college town, and that was my idea of a college. I couldn’t visualize going to one in the middle of a city, so Syracuse sounded like the most attractive place. I was accepted at all three, but had decided on Syracuse at that point.

One had the work of Rube Goldberg, with whom I became friends much later, when I was President of the National Cartoonists Society. Rube was a founder of the NCS and Honorary President and sat in on my board meetings

“I’m Bob Kane and I Just Started a New Feature Called ‘Batman’” JA: Now, you didn’t go to Syracuse. What happened?

ROBINSON: Well, a funny thing happened on the way there, as you suggested. The summer after graduation, I sold ice cream from a cart on the back of my bicycle. We didn’t have motorized carts at that time.

Being the newest member of the ice cream firm, I was given the worst territory, which was on the outskirts of town. I had to pedal all the way out there before I could start to sell. I was very thin in those days—a 98pounder. After pedaling back and forth, by the end of the summer, I was down to about 78 pounds. [laughs] I was putting away $25 a week, which was good money considering my percentage was 1H¢ a cone.

That money was for college.

By the end of the summer, my mother was worried about my surviving the first semester of college. She insisted that I take $25—which I was loathe to do—and go away to the country for a week to fatten up. $25 was all it took in those days.

I was on the tennis team, since tennis was my passion. Tennis was our family sport: all my brothers played, and several of them (and my nephews) were Trenton, New Jersey, champions. My first day there, I rushed out to the tennis court, wearing a painter’s jacket. Those jackets were a fad at that time in college and were decorated with drawings. I had done the same, using it for a tennis jacket.

Rube Goldberg, one of the most famous cartoonists of the early 20th century, gave his name to the language via his uselessly over-complicated “Rube Goldberg machines,” as per this sample which Jerry Robinson included in his 1974 volume The Comics: An Illustrated History of Comic Strip Art. The photo of Rube in his later years with Jerry’s son Jens, at age five, was taken at popular chorusmeister Fred Waring’s Shawnee-on-the-Delaware annual bash for the National Cartoonists Society. [Strip ©2004 King Features Syndicate.]

JA: Tell me about your early writing and artistic influences.

ROBINSON: I was a writer for my school newspaper, and liked to write short stories. I was influenced by Guy DeMaupassant, Mark Twain, O. Henry... all the great short story writers. In junior high school, I submitted a story to Collier’s magazine which, of course, must have been very amateurish, but I wish I had a copy of it now. I got

I was looking for a player, when I felt a tap on my shoulder. A guy said, “Who did those drawings?” I thought I was being arrested or something. I turned

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

5

names yet. Jan Pierce, a top Metropolitan Opera star, was there that week. I found out he was driving back to New York and was encouraged to ask him for a ride. He said it was okay, so I got to New York in Jan Pierce’s limousine!

I started assisting Bob while I was going to Columbia, working mostly at night on the art and going to classes in the daytime. I was already down to skin and bones, but this was a very exciting time for me. I was interested in writing, and comics was a medium that combined writing and drawing. I had no idea that this would ultimately be my profession. I just thought that it’d be a great way to earn my way through college.

JA: When you started with Kane, how did he pay you?

Were you getting a salary or paid by the page?

(Left:) Bob Kane and his immortal (co-)creation on the cover of his 1989 autobiography, co-written by Tom Andrae. Batman figure by Kane and Robinson. (Right:) Afraid we don’t have any photos from the day Bob Kane and Jerry Robinson met on a tennis court. But tennis remains Jerry’s passion, as shown by this photo of Jerry and Mad associate editor Nick Meglin as “NCS tennis champions, Asheville [NC]” in the 1990s. [Batman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

[laughter]

ROBINSON: He paid by the page. I‘d ink and letter a page for $3, if I’m not mistaken. I know that by the end of the week, I didn’t end up with any more money than when I was selling ice cream. Before long, I was able to get a 50% raise, which brought me up to a magnificent $50 a week.

“The Three of Us Would Kick Around Ideas” JA: What were Kane’s pencils like at the beginning?

around and admitted, “I did.” The guy said, “They’re very good. I’m Bob Kane and I just started a new comic feature called ‘Batman.’” I had never heard of Batman, and I think the first story in Detective Comics was on the stands at that point.

Bob was about six years older than me, but was young enough to knock around with. He invited me to go down to the village to find a copy of Detective Comics, which we did. Frankly, I wasn’t very impressed. I was used to the more polished newspaper strip art. Later on, I told Bob I was going to Syracuse. He said, “Gee, I wish you were going to New York. I need someone to help me on ‘Batman.’”

I don’t remember how much money he offered. I know it was very little, but I figured I could make some money while I went to school. I said, “Hold everything.

I was accepted at Columbia and maybe I could switch schools.” It was the end of the summer, so I didn’t really know if I could. From the resort, I called Columbia to see if my application was still good, and luckily it was. So I told them I was coming and immediately called Syracuse to tell them I wasn’t coming. I called my folks at home to tell them about the switch and that I wasn’t coming home; I was going straight to New York. That’s how it started.

Another funny thing happened when I was looking for a way to go from the resort to New York. Now, these resorts had entertainers like Danny Kaye and Sid Caesar entertaining; they weren’t big

ROBINSON: In the beginning, they were fairly tight. They had to be, because I had absolutely no experience at all. I was working day and night, really sweating it out, to learn the techniques and so forth. I could copy anything I saw, but I didn’t think that was really being an artist. I think that was the thing that Bob was first impressed with. I could look at strips and immediately imitate the style.

I didn’t even know what equipment to use—what kind of brushes or pen points.

I really had to work hard to learn to do comic art and take care of my classes at Columbia at the same time. But it became exciting as I got into it. “Batman” wasn’t an instantaneous success, but it almost was. Later on, as I got into the swing of things, Bob’s pencils weren’t so tight.

JA: You once told me that Kane got to the point where he’d draw a box and write “door” in the middle of it. And you had to draw the door.

ROBINSON: [laughs] Or car speeding over a bridge... but that was much later. I knew what he wanted and he knew what I could do.

The early work of Bob Kane and his various associates is on view in full-color luscious hardcover volumes of DC’s Batman Archives, The Dark Knight Archives, and Batman: The World’s Finest Comics Archives—so here’s a circa-1960 (?) line drawing that Kane did which was sold via Joe and Nadia Mannarino’s All Star Auctions in 2002; thanks to Jerry K. Boyd for reminding us about it. [Art ©2004 Estate of Bob Kane; Batman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

At this time, Bob was living in an apartment on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx. I rented a room within walking distance from Bob. I worked in my own room. We’d get together at some point during the day. Bob was living with his folks and had one room as a studio. Bill Finger would meet us there, and the three of us would kick around ideas.

6

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I the negatives, they destroyed the art.

JA: I always thought they refused to return any art.

ROBINSON: No, not at that stage.

The only thing I had to make sure to do was to call the engraver to send the work back before it was destroyed.

Many times, I did a cover that I liked and didn’t call in time, or I’d forget and they’d tell me, “It’s gone.”

JA: So the engraver was destroying the pages and not DC themselves?

Sheldon Moldoff in 1938, with his art for the inside back cover of Action Comics #1—plus page 1 of the second “Batman” story, from Detective Comics #28 (June 1939), which Jim Amash and others feel is at least partly drawn by Moldoff.

If so, Bob Kane sure started having his new super-hero ghosted early!

For interviews with Shelly on his “Batman,” “Hawkman,” and other art, see Alter Ego V3#4 and Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection, both still available from TwoMorrows. The latter, however, is nearly sold out!

[Comic art ©2004 DC Comics.]

JA: I’ve heard that Bob Kane’s father was a lawyer.

Is that correct?

ROBINSON: No, I don’t think he was a lawyer, though I can’t recall what he did for a living. Bob had a younger sister who lived there, too.

JA: You were Kane’s only assistant then. But didn’t Shelly Moldoff help him before you did?

ROBINSON: That’s correct.

JA: I’m sure Moldoff drew the second “Batman” story (Detective #28), because it looks like his early work. The art in that one is different from the first and third stories, which look more like the early Bob Kane work.

ROBINSON: I’d have to see the stories again to compare. But I’d be surprised if Moldoff drew the whole story. I can’t really say, because I didn’t meet Shelly until years later, when I was told he had worked on “Batman” before I did. I think Shelly left to do his own features, though he later returned to work for Bob. JA: That’s right. Now, Kane was still doing other features besides “Batman,” like “Ginger Snap” and “Rusty and His Pals.”

ROBINSON: That’s right. He started those before I joined him, and I worked on them, as well as “Clip Carson.” I worked on all of Bob’s features when I started, until “Batman” took over. I think I still have the art to a complete four-page “Rusty and His Pals,” but it’d take an archaeologist to find the pages right now.

JA: How did you manage to get the entire story? They weren’t letting the artists keep the work, were they?

ROBINSON: They’d let you have it. They didn’t care; they were destroying it all. That’s how I got the Batman covers and a complete “Batman” Joker story I did. After the art went to the engraver, unless some editor wanted a page back for some other purpose, after they shot

ROBINSON: Right. They had no further use for the art, and the publisher saw no value in storing them. Neither did the artists, actually. I just wanted some back if I was satisfied with that particular cover or story. Fred Ray did the same thing. We’d occasionally exchange art—like, if Fred did a Superman cover that I liked, then I’d trade him a Detective cover. We occasionally worked together on some on the World’s Finest covers. He did the Superman figure and I did the Batman and Robin figures. Later, we lined the walls of our studio with them. Fred was a wonderful guy and a great talent. His great Superman covers are classics; his “Congo Bill” was beautifully drawn.

“I Was Living, Sleeping, and Eating ‘Batman’” JA: So you met Bill Finger pretty early on. What were your early impressions of both Kane and Finger?

ROBINSON: You must remember that I was only seventeen, and a whole new world was opening up for me. I was like a blotter, soaking up every new thing. Kane seemed to be a rather glamorous figure—had his own studio (in his family’s apartment, but it was a studio), and was a nice-looking guy. He was about 5’ 10’’, and slim. He was a ladies’ man.

He aspired to a life of glamour.

We had a very good relationship. We’d go out for lunch or dinner together and spend the whole time talking about “Batman.” I was living, sleeping, and eating “Batman,” except for when I was in class at Columbia.

Of course, I met Bill almost as soon as I started. Bill was a very genial guy, very dedicated, with a great sense of humor. He was a real craftsman who conscientiously worked on new plots and characters. He was a great writer and creator, but writing didn’t come easy for him.

Some writers just dash off a story. Bill was too much of a craftsman to do that. It just didn’t flow that easily for him, so he had to work very hard on his stories. That often caused him to be late on deadlines, which was the big bone of contention with the editors. They really put him through a lot of needless agony over that. It was terrible.

Bill wasn’t that assertive or that secure. His name wasn’t on the feature and he didn’t have any ownership rights. It was a shame, because Bill was the writer. He developed the concept and visual of Batman with Bob. He created all the major characters, except for The Joker. Bill should have been credited as the co-creator of “Batman,” just as Siegel and Shuster were on “Superman.”

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

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JA: Why do you think that didn’t happen?

ROBINSON: Bob had sold work to DC before, doing mostly humor cartoons. He wasn’t doing any adventure work early on. That was a big transition for him, by the way; it wasn’t easy. Actually, I think that’s why he wound up with the style he used on “Batman,” because his experience wasn’t as an adventure artist.

So Bob knew the people at DC, and he was the one who took the feature to them and sold it under his name. I don’t think DC even knew of Bill’s existence then. Bill didn’t go to the offices. Bob delivered the work, or else his father would. I didn’t go down there, either, so they didn’t know about me, until the time Bill and I decided to leave Bob Kane.

Bob—who was under contract to DC—so they went after us.

Fred Ray times four! (Left:) In Batman: The World’s Finest Comics Archives, Vol. 1, Fred Ray is credited with this cover for World’s Finest #4 (Winter 1941), though Jerry says he was sometimes asked to work on the Batman and Robin figures on those classic compositions. (Center:) Ray himself preferred drawing the longrunning “Tomahawk” feature, as per this page from Star Spangled Comics #90 (March 1949); this tale’s splash was seen in A/E #19, which also sported a Fred Ray proto-Tomahawk cover and a short talk with Jerry about Ray. (Right-center:) Photo of Fred Ray, courtesy of Ron Webber & Dan Makara. (Right:) Fred Ray’s favorite work was the historical booklets he researched, wrote, and drew, often for sale at national landmarks, such as one about Valley Forge. With thanks to Don Mangus. [DC art ©2004 DC Comics; Valley Forge art ©2004 Estate of Fred Ray.]

Bill and I asked Bob for a suitable raise, after about a year or so, when the feature had proven successful, and Bob was making a lot more money. We didn’t get it, so Bill and I decided to go to DC... well, we had a lot of offers by this time. Everybody wanted to get their hands on anybody who had anything to do with the success of Batman. And there were only the three of us at that time, and they weren’t going to get

I remember meeting with Busy Arnold, who was the publisher of Quality Comics.

He’d take me to lunch every couple of weeks, trying to persuade me to join him.

One time, he wanted to make me the editor, offering me carte blanche on any feature I wanted to draw or anything I cared to create. I’d have been an editor at 18 or 19, running the whole thing, so this was a very attractive offer. It was also a little bit scary. When DC heard about this, they got on their horses and hired both Bill and myself. From then on, I worked directly for DC and was paid by them, not by Bob.

JA: So, because Bob Kane went to DC with “Batman” without Finger, he was able to insure that his name was the only one to appear on the feature.

ROBINSON: That’s the way it worked.

We ran this photo of Bill Finger in A/E #19—but how could we not show the unacknowledged co-creator of “Batman”? Bill’s byline, of course, should’ve been up there with that of “Rob’t Kane” on the intro panel in Detective Comics #27 (May 1939), à la Siegel & Shuster on “Superman.” [Comic art ©2004 DC Comics.]

8

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

JA: I’ve heard Bob Kane was able to retain some ownership of Batman. Do you know if that’s true?

ROBINSON: I don’t think he did in the beginning. At least, that’s my understanding.

JA: I’ve heard that, when DC was sold to Kinney Corporation in the 1960s, they had to negotiate a deal with Bob Kane, because he had some ownership of Batman.

ROBINSON: Well, that’s much later, so he could have worked out some kind of deal at some point. But I don’t think he had any ownership in the beginning. I must say that Bob was a fighter for his rights, though he didn’t share them with Bill. But it was good that he looked out for himself, though I wish he had shared it with Bill.

“Bill [Finger] Was My Cultural Mentor” JA: Since you were the youngest of the group, how did they treat you?

It sounds like they took you under their wing to some extent.

ROBINSON: I think in a way that’s true, although they didn’t treat me as if I were a kid. Let’s take Bill, for example. Bill was my cultural mentor. I was living in this little room, and that was it. Bill took me down to Manhattan, to museums like the Museum of Natural History and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He took me to see the great foreign films, and introduced me to art noir: all the great German expressionists and Italian films.

It was very exciting.

Bill was very well-read and very interested in all forms of art and literature. He was a good mentor to have. I think he was close to Bob’s age, so we felt very comfortable just palling around together.

I knew Bill when was he courting his wife, Portia, who lived in Rochester at the time.

He’d spend hours on the phone with her, much to our impatience. [laughs] The three of us would be walking down the street and Bill would say, “Oh, I got to call Portia.” He’d go into a phone booth, and we’d wait outside the booth for half an hour. Portia was a very nice, bright woman, and I was very close to her. We’d go out to dinner together, and I’d visit the Fingers at their apartment in Greenwich Village. I guess I was sort of a homeless waif. [laughs]

ROBINSON: We’d be together, talking over ideas, deciding on what was good and what wasn’t. Then, Bill would do all his writing at home. I don’t remember him taking notes. I don’t think he had to, although he might have in certain circumstances.

Bill’s scripts were excellent. Bill was a cinematic writer. He knew what could be done visually. He’d write things that would work. For example, if he wrote a scene set on a cruise ship, Bill would go to a travel agency or the picture department of the New York Public Library, and get pictures of cruise ships and deck diagrams. So if he had Batman swinging from the upper deck to the bowels of the ship, it would actually work. He always provided a lot of research for us, which was a big help. He wrote those scenes intelligently. He understood sequential narrative and the dialogue was crisp.

JA: That’s probably why he was so slow, because he was doing all this research.

ROBINSON: That’s true, and a lot of people didn’t appreciate that, including the editors.

JA: In your opinion, how much of Batman’s creation was Bill’s idea?

ROBINSON: Well, there’s give-and-take in a collaboration. I think the creative credit was no less than 50-50, considering that Bill wasn’t an artist, so Bob had to create the visual image. I think the initial concepts came from Bill. Batman’s concepts were very derivative of pulp features, as you know. There was “The Bat,” and other concepts that originated in the pulps—Bill read them all. His stories were influenced by his extensive reading—and films—and I know Bob wasn’t a big reader, so it had to come from Bill. Bob created the visuals, but Bill also made important suggestions in that area, too: the cape, the ears, the gloves, the belt, and so forth.

I wasn’t there for the first story, so I don’t know the exact details. But considering how the three of us kicked around ideas for other characters, I can make a good guess as to how “Batman” came to be. Bob finally acknowledged Bill’s role in his later years.

JA: Bill never actually discussed that with you, did he?

JA: Do you know how Kane and Finger met?

ROBINSON: I think they went to the same high school together, and met at some party.

JA: When you three were kicking around ideas, was Bill taking notes? How exactly did these sessions go?

Jerry Robinson’s cover for Detective Comics #67 (Sept. 1942) featured The Penguin.

The cover blurb heralding the story “Crime’s Early Bird!” has fallen off the original art, of which J.R. supplied us with a photocopy. [©2004 DC Comics.]

ROBINSON: At this point, I can’t remember a specific conversation, but Bill felt he was the co-creator and didn’t get credit for it. I know he felt way. That was one thing, as much as I liked Bob and appreciated the things he contributed, I can’t forgive him for: not recognizing Bill. For some reason, Bob felt that any credit that went to either Bill or myself would detract from him, which it wouldn’t have.

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

“Robinson, the Boy Wonder” JA: A few months after you started, Robin was introduced into the feature. How did the idea of Robin evolve?

ROBINSON: I’m positive it was Bill’s idea. He was always coming in with new ideas for us to kick around. I remember the exact meeting when we first started discussing introducing a boy. We were all excited about it, and thought it was a great idea. Bill understood how much it would mean in expanding the story parameters. It’d help advance the plots to have a sidekick, someone Batman could interact with.

Further than that, Robin’s presence would help the feature appeal to all ages. The introduction of a kid gave the young readers someone they’d identify with. The youngest readers were too young to identify with Batman. Together they made a strong connection for various demographics of readers.

JA: A couple of the early names I heard were kicked around were Mercury and Dusty.

ROBINSON: Mercury sounds like one—Dusty I don’t recall. All the names had some sort of super-hero connection, and our first thoughts were in that vein. I was not comfortable with the names we were coming up with, and I don’t think anyone else was, either. We came up with all kinds of names—a list of about thirty, and we threw them all out.

In reaching for a name, I came up with Robin. Everything in your life comes up in one form or another. I loved the stories of Robin Hood, and that’s where the name came from, despite other stories since. As a kid, I was given a book about Robin Hood and the Knights of the Round Table, illustrated by N.C. Wyeth. Wyeth was a great illustrator, and I used to pore over those drawings. I remembered those illustrations vividly, so when I got the idea for Robin’s name, I immediately thought of the Wyeth costume of Robin Hood. That’s where the red vest came from, the chain mail type of shorts, and the shoes.

JA: So both the name and costume were essentially your ideas?

9

Robin’s debut in Detective Comics #38 (April 1940) led directly to a flood of kid sidekicks, with monickers like Bucky, Dusty, Stampy, The Eaglet, Roy the Super Boy, Cub, Cobra Kid, Tim, Mickey, Mike, Dynamic Boy, Buddy, Rusty, Bingo, Speedy, Domino, Wasplet, Jimmy Martin & Thorndyke, Toro, Rainbow Boy, Kitten, Nickie the Boy King, Yankee Boy, Dicky, Blacky the Mystery Boy, Davy, David (no relation), Super Ann, Pinky, Sandy, The Cyclone Kids, Shadow Jr., Flame, Mercury, Herc, Inferno, Freezum, Dan the Dyna-Mite, Stuff, Red Seal, Dandy, Ricky, Speedboy, Aqualad, Kid Flash—and Sleepy (no relation to a certain Disney dwarf). Thanks to Jerry Bails & Hames Ware. A free copy of Alter Ego #44 to the first person who names all the super-heroes who mentored the above masked moppets—and probably reminds us of a few we missed! [©2004 DC Comics.]

ROBINSON: Well, I wouldn’t say entirely.

Bob and I sat down at the drawing board and sketched it out, which was something we always did. Once we had an idea, we immediately tried to visualize it. We worked out the costume together. I suggested what I remembered of Wyeth’s costume. It was a collaborative creation, but the genesis of Robin’s name and look came from Robin Hood.

The last touch was the “R” on Robin’s chest. If you look at the early Batman stories I lettered—the beginning of each caption—the first letter I enclosed in a circle and dropped out the line. I thought that would be a counterpoint to the Bat emblem on Batman’s chest.

JA: When the three of you were kicking around ideas, some of yours and Bob’s made their way into the stories, correct?

ROBINSON: Oh, yeah. Many of my ideas went into the stories. I wouldn’t say our contributions were major. A lot of times we got together and talked. But, no... Bill deserves all the credit for the writing.

Bill was also inventive with words and phrases like “The Dynamic Duo,” “Gotham City,” the Batmobile, and the Batplane.”

Robin is featured nearly as prominently as Batman on this cover art for Detective Comics #61 (March 1942), which has also been repro’d from a photocopy of the original photocopy of the original Kane/ Robinson/Roussos art, courtesy of Jerry. [©2004 DC Comics.]

Getting back to Robin, it’s been kicked around in print that I named Robin after myself, since my last name is Robinson. This is not true. I certainly wouldn’t have been presumptuous enough to name Robin after myself. Bill came up with the phrase “Robin, the Boy Wonder.” They’d kid me about being “Robinson, the Boy Wonder,” because I was still a teenager. They were five or six years older than me, but they seemed much older at the time.

I hated being called “the Boy Wonder.” It used to kill me! When

10

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I ROBINSON: Two years. I quit because I wanted to live! I couldn’t handle both ends indefinitely. I didn’t take comics too seriously at first— as I told you—but by the end of a couple of years, I began to have more and more interest in the potential of the medium. I began to see comics as a vehicle for writing and drawing, and that excited me. By this time, “Batman” was a big success and I was making more money, although the money wasn’t really an issue. I wanted to make more, of course, but that’s not why I stayed in comics. In those days, if you got a check for $100, you could cash it and walk around for a month with cash in hand.

Money went much further in those days!

JA: Sounds like you didn’t have much time for a social life.

ROBINSON: Well, we squeezed it in [mutual laughter], but it wasn’t a normal social life, that’s for sure.

“[Bob Kane] Didn’t Deny That I Had Created The Joker” JA: Tell me how The Joker came to be.

ROBINSON: There have been all kinds of variations written, some by Bob. He claimed he created all the characters, but in the beginning, he didn’t deny that I had created The Joker.

In any event, DC decided to give Batman his own title. Bob came in, very excited, and told us we had the book, which needed four stories right away. We were used to doing one story a month for Detective Comics—13 pages—which Bill was writing. Maybe we were still doing some “Rusty” or “Clip Carson” for a while, but they were soon dropped. Basically, we were going from one story a month to several.

And I was still trying to do my work at Columbia, so it became a bit of a problem.

Robinson drew Batman and Robin honoring the Man of Steel for Superman #400 (Oct. 1984). Seen along with The Joker and The Penguin are New York Mayor Ed Koch, Henry Kissinger, Richard Nixon, Senator Pat Moynihan, and perhaps one or two other folks you might recognize—including Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art. [©2004 DC Comics.]

you’re seventeen and eighteen, you want to appear older and be taken more seriously. Being “the Boy Wonder” wasn’t praise at all. But now that I’m older, I won’t complain. I’m the 82-year-old boy wonder! [mutual laughter] JA: By the time of the first Robin story, you were doing the complete ink job, weren’t you?

ROBINSON: Yes. It wasn’t long before I was doing the complete inking. I was also doing all the lettering until it became too much for me.

I began penciling, too. Bob would do whatever penciling he did, and I did anything that needed more exactitude before inking. We weren’t really collaborating on the pencils.

“I Quit Because I Wanted to Live!”

JA: When did you find out that “Batman” was a hit? You said it was almost an immediate hit, but not quite.

ROBINSON: It was soon after I started, maybe four or five months in.

I guess Bill knew it from what he’d heard. He saw kids at the newsstands reading our stories. I don’t think Bob particularly touted it, but we could tell from his exuberance that it had become popular, although we didn’t hear first-hand from the publishers or see any sales reports. We were very naïve.

JA: Since “Batman” was taking up a lot of your time, I’m wondering how long you stayed at Columbia.

While Bill was the best writer, he wasn’t the fastest. Bill acknowledged that he’d have a problem writing all the stories. I immediately piped up, “Maybe I could write one!” They said, “Great! Bill can do the first story and you can do the second one.”

That night, after our conversation, I was very excited about writing and couldn’t wait to start. I sat in my room, thinking that the first thing I wanted to do was to create an adversary to build the story around. I’d been taking creative writing classes at Columbia and realized that there weren’t any important villains in “Batman.” There’d been gangsters and such, as comics reflected the ’20s and ’30s—Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, Machine Gun Kelly, etc.—but Batman was deserving of a more important adversary. All heroes in literature had a memorable antagonist: in the Bible, David had Goliath—Sherlock Holmes had Professor Moriarty, etc.

Once I got on that streak, I realized I wanted a bigger-than-life villain. My first thought was to create one with a sense of humor. Good characters have contradictions in their character. The Joker is a villain with a sense of humor, which gives him an extra dimension.

My next thought was to give him a name. Names are important: they can capture the essence of the character’s personality. Here’s where another part of my background came into play, albeit subconsciously.

Playing cards always played a part in my life. One of my brothers was a champion contract bridge player. My mother was an expert player, too, though she didn’t play in tournaments as did my brother. I played, too, though not as well as they did, but I loved bridge. My father loved cards, like poker. And as a kid, I used to make houses out of cards.

All these associations were somewhere in my head... The Joker came to mind! I thought, “The perfect look would be the Joker from a playing card.” I remember feverishly hunting through my room for a pack of cards, because I wanted to capture that image right then. I found one with that perfect clown symbol, and immediately based my drawing on the card. The white face came from the playing card; I thought that was

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

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so bizarre. It was a touch that I liked: white face, red lips, and green hair. The perfect look for the master criminal!

I decided the playing card would be The Joker’s calling card. He’d outwit Batman and taunt him with his sense of humor. That is the essence of what I came in with the next day. I hadn’t written the story yet. I just had the basic concept and liked the thought that The Joker was capable of outwitting Batman.

Bill was there and we were worried about getting the actual stories out for the first issue. Bill and Bob went bananas over the Joker character. Bob immediately said, “Bill should write this story.”

Undoubtably, he was the bestequipped to do so, since I was essentially a novice writer.

Reluctantly, I agreed to let Bill write the first Joker story. I literally had tears in my eyes because I was giving up my baby. I came in so excited about this character and that I was going to write the script— but it turned out to be too good an idea.

I also wanted to write the first story because I could have used it as part of my creative writing class and get paid for writing a “Batman” story. Both ideas went down the drain because I didn’t get paid anything for the creation of The Joker. Of course, Bill did a fabulous job, writing a perfect story. The Joker was an immediate success.

JA: Did you give Bill any story ideas once it was decided he was going to write it?

ROBINSON: No, only basically what I already told you. Bill left immediately and didn’t return until the story was written. Initially, we were going to kill The Joker off in the second story, but everybody realized he was too good a character to lose.

(Top left:) Jerry labeled this drawing: “First sketch of The Joker—and his calling card.” The Joker debuted in Batman #1 (Spring 1940)—but Jerry relates how Bill Finger wound up scripting the story that introduced the villain Jerry had conceived. (Left:) Jerry’s first solo cover featuring The Joker was this classic, for Detective Comics #69 (Nov. 1942). (Above:) A drawing of the Clown Prince of Crime done by Jerry a few years back for collector Keif Fromm. [Cover ©2004 DC Comics; sketch ©2004 Jerry Robinson; Joker TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

“It Meant That Much for Bob to Claim Credit [for The Joker]” JA: There were at least two stories, early on, that Gardner Fox wrote: the “Batman” stories in Detective Comics #31 and 32, starring a villain called The Monk. Unlike The Joker, they killed him off at the end of the story. Do you have any idea why Fox, and not Finger, wrote those stories?

ROBINSON: I wasn’t aware that anyone other than Bill wrote any of the early stories. Are you sure that Gardner Fox wrote them?

JA: That’s what DC has always said, and Steranko said so in his History of the Comics.

JA: The story I’ve heard is that Whit Ellsworth was the one who decided not to kill off The Joker.

ROBINSON: Well, sometimes DC will get the credits wrong, but they could be correct. I have no idea why Fox would have written those stories, but maybe he did.

ROBINSON: That’s quite possible. But we all agreed. He was the art director and was the one I worked for when I became a staffer. I did all my covers and stories under Whit.

JA: It may have been because Fox was friends with Vin Sullivan. The Catwoman, who was originally called “The Cat,” also appeared in Batman #1. She was Bill Finger’s idea, right?

12

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

George Roussos, circa 1940. Not long before his death in 2000, the artist sent this photo to Bill Cain, who had interviewed him for A/E V3#5.

Judging by the studio backdrop, including the pinned-up ”Batman” splash from Detective Comics #45 (Nov. 1940), ‘twould seem likely that this photo was taken around the same time as that of Jerry Robinson on p. 3, and of Bernie Klein on p. 21. Courtesy of William Cain. Later, George would use his “Batman” experience to draw the “Air Wave” feature in Detective Comics, as per this splash page from issue #91 (Sept. 1944); thanks to Bob Bailey. [Air Wave art ©2004 DC Comics.]

ROBINSON: Yes. JA: Basically, all the major villains, except for The Joker, were created by Bill Finger?

ROBINSON: I don’t know of any that weren’t.

JA: Bob Kane claimed that the Joker image came from a picture of Conrad Veidt, who starred in the film The Man Who Laughs.

ROBINSON: When Bill came back in with the script, he brought in a picture of Conrad Veidt. I’m sure Bob didn’t know about Veidt, and neither did I. Bill knew because he was into German expressionist films and had seen the movie. The picture of Veidt in that role is amazingly similar to my concept of The Joker, but it was after the fact. It was very typical of Bill’s thoroughness in research and fleshing out his characters.

The picture, along with my drawing, helped Bill develop The Joker’s character. I think that’s where Bill got the idea of The Joker’s hysterical laugh. He took my idea of the villain having a sense of humor and ran with it. I hadn’t really thought of it before, but that must be where Bill got the idea for the laugh. It meant that much to Bob to claim credit— but it wasn’t so. It doesn’t detract from all Bob’s other contributions, which were considerable.

“We Soon Hired George Roussos….”

Building, up until we left to work directly for DC. He was a quiet, selfeffacing guy most of the time. He was born in Greece, and while he spoke English very well, he may not have been entirely comfortable with it. We got along very well and became close friends.

We took trips together. We once, as a lark, went to Mahopac for a weekend, about two hours from New York City. I think I may still have some of the drawings I did of George there. I knew him through his trials and tribulations with his wife. He loved to visit England, and I think he had a life of his own there over the years.

George soon began to tighten up Bob’s backgrounds. He had a good sense of black and white. He was a very hard worker and worked very fast—sometimes to my chagrin—because I thought some things needed to be done a little more carefully. But he knocked the work out so effectively that he was in great demand later.

JA: Since the amount of work had increased, did you guys call out for more help?

JA: I know he took over the “Air Wave” feature when Lee Harris went into the service. He also colored it.

ROBINSON: Yes. We soon hired George Roussos as a background artist. Bob rented a tiny studio—enough for two drawing boards, period—way up on top of The Times Building in New York. We could see the entire Times Square from the adjoining studio of cartoonist Bert Whitman. Bert did the Debbie Dean strip and later became an editorial cartoonist out West.

ROBINSON: Right. We were able to color our work when we wanted.

Bob advertised for a background artist, and we interviewed several artists. We thought George was the best, and he could letter, too. He proved to be very good. George and I worked together in the Times

“[DC] Wanted to Keep the Original ‘Batman’ Team Intact” JA: How long was it before DC found out about you and Bill? Were they aware of your contributions when you and Bill went to them?

ROBINSON: At some point, they must have been, though I don’t remember going down to the offices before I was called in; but as I told

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you, other people knew we were working for Bob. JA: I thought this was more or less a secret. How did people find out about you and Finger?

ROBINSON: Word gets around... it’s hard to keep it a secret. Bob walked in with the stories and DC must have known he wasn’t doing all the writing and art. Maybe they noticed the change in the inking? Maybe Bill talked to somebody... I really can’t say how it happened.

JA: Maybe Finger went to DC and told them?

ROBINSON: He might have, but I doubt it at that point. It’s possible. Word did get around, because Bill and I began receiving offers from several publishers, including Busy Arnold.

Everybody wanted us because we worked on “Batman.”

(Left:) George Roussos (on left) and Jerry, circa 1941-42, on Lake Mahopac, NY. Thanks for the photo to both Jerry R. and Bill Cain. (Above:) A pre-costume Catwoman (then called The Cat) meets The Joker in Batman #2 (Summer 1940), in a story credited to Bob Kane (pencils), Jerry Robinson and George Roussos (inks), with Jerry lettering.

Oh yeah, and a guy named Finger wrote the script. [DC panels ©2004 DC Comics.]

I notified DC that I was going to leave “Batman.” So did Bill.

Even though I wasn’t working directly for DC, I felt a certain responsibility to “Batman.” We were called in. They immediately huddled, because they wanted to keep the original “Batman” team intact—particularly Bill.

Bill and I were immediately hired, for a great deal more money than Bob was paying us. This was around 1941. Now Bill and I were working directly for DC’s editors, and I rarely saw Bob after that. George Roussos went with us to DC. Bill and I enjoyed doing “Batman,” but it was a big decision to make, because the other offer was very attractive. I liked the idea of writing and drawing my own stories and editing for Quality. “Batman” was still a developing feature. If Busy Arnold’s offer had come along later, I might have taken it. The excitement for building “Batman” was still there.

JA: You were working for Whitney Ellsworth.

ROBINSON: Yes, he was the art director, but there were story editors there, too. Mort Weisinger, Jack Schiff, and Murray Boltinoff were the story editors.

JA: What was Bob Kane’s reaction to your leaving him?

ROBINSON: Well, I think that’s proof that he didn’t own “Batman,” because he’d have been able to stop us if he had. I don’t know what they did to appease Bob. I can’t say what he thought, because we never discussed it, but I gather he wasn’t too pleased. It was short-sighted of Bob to let DC take us away from him, because he lost control of the feature. Before, all the art and stories went through him, and now DC was taking control. They paid him and he paid us. By not wanting to share the glories, which were enough for all, he let “Batman” slip out of his hands.

I’m sure he must have regretted all this, because he could have had his own studio—like Will Eisner did—and produced all the “Batman” work.

For DC’s part, they wanted to make sure the work was done well. There

was dissension in the ranks, people were leaving, DC didn’t want that to happen and let us go to the competition.

JA: Not only that, they may have been afraid that, if they brought in another artist, maybe the look of the feature would change.

ROBINSON: Yeah, sure. DC knew “Batman” needed a consistent look.

I was already doing a lot of the work, and they didn’t want to lose me or Bill, who’d set the tone for the stories.

“We All Influenced Each Other” JA: So when you went to work for DC, you worked in their bullpen.

Was it the first time you’d had real contact with them?

ROBINSON: Yes. That’s where I met Charles Paris. He was a young fellow in the back of the room. We had a great crew there. Maybe they weren’t all there at the same time: Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel, Jack Kirby, Mort Meskin, Fred Ray, Charlie Paris, Stan Kaye, Bernie Klein— my best friend, who came from Trenton—and others. We all influenced each other. There was a great exchange of ideas, which was great for me, because I was the youngest one there, and they were very influential in my artistic growth.

We’d work all hours, but there was a semblance of structure. I rarely got in there at nine and rarely left at five. I recall working all night and was there when the office was opened the next morning. I’d take work home when we had a tough deadline. Very soon after I started in the bullpen, I began moonlighting for other companies. If I went back to work at night, it was because of other work. By that time, I was anxious to do complete stories: the writing as well as the drawing.

One other guy I should mention who should be remembered—and was a wonderful man—was Raymond Perry, though I just called him “Mr. Perry.” He was the colorist who worked in the bullpen. He was a fine, old illustrator; a white-haired man that I really looked up to. I felt terrible that someone of his age and illustrious past should be reduced to coloring comics. His desk was very close to mine.

There was a time when I shared an apartment with Mort Meskin and Bernie Klein on 33rd Street, off Third Avenue, and Mr. Perry’s apartment was on 34th Street, off Lexington Avenue, just a block away.

Occasionally, I’d walk home with him. I remember one time he gave me a couple of his research books of costumes. He wanted to make sure I

14

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I to do, and sometimes not. I enjoyed that and tried to make those covers as special as I could.

Since Whit’s desk was right in front of mine, I seldom had to submit a cover rough. That wasn’t until some time later, when he moved into an office adjoining the bullpen. I never submitted roughs, in the traditional sense. I’d tell him my basic concept, and he’d okay it. If I did a story with a splash page, I’d tell him that I was doing a variation of it for the cover, which I did on occasion.

JA: That’s a lot of freedom.

ROBINSON: Yes, that’s why I liked him!

JA: It’s particularly surprising that you got that much freedom, considering how important “Batman” was to the company.

ROBINSON: Well, Whit could see what I was doing because he was right in front of me, so he was obviously satisfied. I just did my best to conceive of the most interesting covers that I could. That was it.

JA: Since you were on salary, did you have a certain quota to meet?

ROBINSON: Not really. Sometime later, near the end, they asked us to write reports on what we did each week. I guess some bottom-line guy asked them to do that, but there were no real quotas.

JA: Did you get extra pay for doing those covers?

ROBINSON: Yes, but I was on salary. I wasn’t getting paid by the page, until I went freelance.

Jerry recounts how he drew and even colored the Batman-vs.-Joker cover and interior art for “Slay ‘Em with Flowers” in Detective #76 (June 1943).

The story itself was reportedly written by legendary science-fiction editor H.L. Gold. [©2004 DC Comics.]

was authentic in my research, and at times I’d work closely with him on my “Batman” stories when they were colored. I did color a couple of my stories and some of my covers. When I didn’t color the covers, I worked with Mr. Perry on them. And he didn’t mind that at all. He was very pleased and helpful.

There’s one cover I drew [Detective Comics #76] where The Joker is growing out of a flower and is spraying insecticide at Batman and Robin.

The flower pot is very enlarged, almost the same size as Batman. Batman and Robin are carrying scissors and are about to cut the stem The Joker is growing out of. It was a symbolic image of the story inside—The Joker was a florist. Those are the kinds of interpretations that I liked to do, and I remember that we used the cover for the splash page, too. I colored that story and the cover.

JA: I doubt many artists were coloring their own stories. Did you get paid extra for that?

ROBINSON: No. I just did it when I wanted to get a special effect— using the color components to eliminate the black lines for the color separator.

JA: How were comics colored then? Did they use aniline dyes?

ROBINSON: I think we used dyes. I used Mr. Perry’s colors, since he sat near me.

JA: You didn’t start penciling until you joined the bullpen, right?

ROBINSON: Right. I started penciling and inking my own stories, as well as drawing covers. And Whit was the only one I had to answer to; he gave me plenty of leeway. Sometimes I’d show him what I was going

Another landmark Robinson cover: Detective Comics #68 (Oct. 1942)— repro’d from a photocopy of the original art. [©2004 DC Comics.]

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age JA: What was Whit Ellsworth like, personally?

ROBINSON: He was a very genial guy, who had been a cartoonist in the old bigfoot style.

He knew what he was talking about, though he wasn’t an adventure artist. He was easy to work with, and I respected him. He didn’t make you feel that he was gratuitously asking for changes in order to exercise his authority, as some of the other editors did.

15 anything but walk around. [NOTE: Jerry is doubtlessly referring to Herbie Siegel.

Due to legal problems Donenfeld had, pertaining to the content of his pre-comics Spicy publications, Siegel went to jail— taking the rap for Donenfeld—thereby earning a lifetime job upon his release.

—Jim]

“Don Cameron... Looked like a College Professor”

DC editor Whit Ellsworth (1908-1980) in his office in 1944.

He wasn’t a joke-teller, but had a good This photo appeared in the fabulous deluxe volume sense of humor. For a while there, a few of us Batman: The Sunday Classics – 1943-46, jointly published would go to the bowling alley across the JA: Did Bill Finger or any other writers in 1991 by DC and Kitchen Sink Press. street a couple times a week and bowl during work in the bullpen? lunchtime. Whit, one or two other editors, ROBINSON: Bill worked at home. Jerry Siegel wrote in the bullpen at Mort, Bernie, and I were the ones who usually did that. The apartment I times, but not as a general rule. I can’t think of any other writer who shared with Mort and Bernie on 33rd Street was an artists’ hangout: wrote on staff, except Don Cameron. Most of them worked at home. artists like Fred Ray, Hal Sherman, Charlie Biro, the Wood brothers, Don had his own little cubicle, just opposite my desk, so I’d see him all Siegel and Shuster, and editors—including Whit—would come over. We the time. His cubicle was really like a small anteroom, next to Whit drank beer, played darts, and told stories. At times, there were so many Ellsworth’s office, and both were open to my desk. Don was a very people that we couldn’t seat them all. I remember Whit sitting crossprecise man, very intelligent, and I always found him to be a sweet but legged on the floor with some of the guys, so he could be pretty downreserved person. He hardly talked to anyone. to-Earth. That sort of thing doesn’t happen very often.

“What the Hell Are You Doing Defending Siegel and Shuster?”

JA: That’s why it surprises me. Did you have much contact with Harry Donenfeld?

ROBINSON: Very little. Jack Liebowitz was the “hands-on” manager on a day-to-day basis. He really ran things and was a tough guy. He was short, very compact, dapper with a clipped mustache; a typical bottomline guy who ran the company’s finances. Rights and money were very difficult with him. He didn’t mingle with the artists.

The editor of my book at Putnam, The Comics: An Illustrated History of Comic Strip Art, took me to lunch at the Century Club when it came out. I had a copy of the book at the table. I looked across the room and saw Jack Liebowitz, dining alone. This was the mid-1970s, and I hadn’t seen Liebowitz in over 25 years.

I went over to say “Hello.” I said, “Hi, Jack, how are you?” He recognized me immediately. I showed him a copy of my book. He looked through it briefly and abruptly said, “Oh, this is great.” Then he said, “One thing I have to say to you: what the hell are you doing defending Siegel and Shuster?” Can you imagine him saying that?

I said, “What the hell do you mean asking ‘What the hell am I doing?’

They need defending.” And I walked away. I was so furious, because he was the one who’d screwed them. I’m really surprised I went up to him, but I thought, “Well, it’s been 25 years, maybe he’s mellowed.” But that’s what he said. That infuriated me!

JA: I wasn’t there and it infuriates me! You know, I’ve never really been able to figure out exactly what Donenfeld did, because Liebowitz took care of everything. What did he do?

ROBINSON: He was a businessman and published girly-type stuff before publishing comics, so he had already made money before he got into comics. But it was the comics that made him a multimillionaire.

There was a guy who walked around all the time, named Mr. Siegel.

That’s all we knew about him. He was a middle-aged man about that time, and supposedly one of the company’s executives. He walked around with his head down all the time. Nobody ever saw him do

He was an older man, as everyone was to me, since I was still a teenager. He was of medium height and slim. He might have had grayish hair, but am not sure of that now. He was pleasant-looking—nothing unusual. He looked like a college professor, but he didn’t wear glasses.

Thinking back, he was probably in his 30s. You could run your life by his routine. Don would come in at the same time each morning, put his hat on his hat tree, sit down, and start typing. There was no thinking about what to write—no written notes of any kind. He’d just sit down, and start writing. Whether he had it all in his mind beforehand, I don’t know.

I knew when it was twelve o’clock, because his typewriter would stop. Once he sat down, all you heard was the pounding of his typewriter until lunch time. Then he’d go out, have lunch, come back, and you knew it was one o’clock because the typewriter would start clicking again. [laughs] He’d do that until five, then put on his hat and leave.

It took some time before I got to know him. We started going to lunch together. I was impressed by Don because of his demeanor and ability and wide range of knowledge. We’d discuss politics and he was quite liberal, so we agreed on a lot of issues. He was very well-read, and as I was interested in everything, I kind-of soaked up his knowledge.

What would happen with Don is, one day he wouldn’t show up for work. This would be very startling, because we didn’t have anything to time ourselves with. [mutual laughter] Don would be gone for various times: a day, a week, or a month or more. If he came back in a day or two, there’d be no problem, but sometimes he disappeared for longer periods, and turn up in odd places.

For example, DC would get a telegram from the chief of police in Des Moines, Iowa. It’d say, “We got a guy here who claims to work for you,” and state the amount of bail or fine that had to be paid. DC would wire it and then the police would let him go. DC needed him back. So he’d come back and start his routine all over again. DC would get back whatever they paid, because in a couple of days, he could do a lot of writing. He was a good, fast writer.

JA: I take it he had these problems because he was a drinker.

ROBINSON: Yes. He’d go over a certain alcohol content in his blood and be out of it. Sometimes it just took one drink. He’d be okay in the

16

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

morning and sometimes go out and take a drink, which would put him over and he wouldn’t come back.

I want you to check this out, because this is something I felt for many years. He was a disturbed man, since he drank that much, but something was causing it. When he was drinking, I felt he was committing suicide, as a lot of alcoholics really are doing when they are in the depths of depression.

I don’t know when it was that I came upon this fact, but Henry Ford was a virulent anti-Semite. He funded a newspaper called The Dearborn Independent, which was anti-Jewish, anti-black, anti-Catholic... a real hate newspaper, which was published for many years. I came across the fact that the editor was William J. Cameron, and I think I had researched this a long time ago, but never had an opportunity to research it again, but I’m pretty sure that Don was his son. This would explain Don’s despondency and why he drank, if it’s true. The father and son were at opposite ends of the political and social spectrum.

JA: Were you close friends with Cameron?

ROBINSON: We just went out to lunch and maybe after work sometimes. He wasn’t a close friend; we were just friendly. I admired him and his talent. It wasn’t like my relationships with Bernie Klein or Mort Meskin, who were more my age.

JA: Obviously, Cameron was considered to be one of DC’s top writers, along with Bill Finger and Gardner Fox. ROBINSON: I’d say he was. I may have one of Don’s old scripts around. I have a package of some old scripts, and one of Bill’s. By the way, I do have a funny Don Cameron story for you. I was moonlighting from DC. I wanted to write and draw my own stories instead of signing Bob Kane’s name. I was doing “London” for Lev Gleason at the this time and had only done three or four stories at this point—creating the whole feature, writing the scripts, and doing all the art, including the lettering. And I was falling behind in my deadlines.

I was used to doing the “London” stories in a couple of nights because they were six- or eight-pagers. It was Friday, my deadline was Monday, and I hadn’t started yet. I figured I needed some help either in

the drawing or the writing. I had a storyline in mind, but hadn’t set anything down on paper. I asked Don to help me out. He said he could, came down to my apartment on Saturday morning, and I told him an outline of my story. I also had him read one of the prior “London” stories, so he could get familiar with the concept and the character.

Don said, “Okay. Where’s the typewriter?” I suddenly realized that I didn’t own one; I wrote all my scripts in longhand. I asked my neighbor, but he didn’t have one, either. Don said, “Oh, wait a minute. I know where I can get a typewriter, right up here on Lexington Avenue in the 50s.” We got on the subway up to the 50’s. Don said, “I don’t remember which block it’s on.” We walked around until he recognized the street.

He went into a building and looked down the list of occupants.

He rings a bell and we’re let up to the apartment. A woman opens up the door—and she’s about his age—and they fall into each others arms.

We go in and they start to reminisce. It turned out that he hadn’t seen her for about fifteen years, and all of a sudden, he knows where a typewriter is. [mutual laughter] She was a writer—that’s how they knew each other. He didn’t know if she was still living there, or even if she was alive! They’re having a wonderful time talking and I’m getting as nervous as a cat. We had to get started on my story.

The lady friend wheeled out a glass portable bar. She was obviously a drinking companion. I thought to myself, “Oh, my God! This is terrible.” I didn’t know what to do. I thought, “Well, if they have one drink, then that’s not too bad.” Don downed the drink. That’s when I tried to pull him away. I asked the lady about the typewriter so we could get to work.

She took us into a small room where she wrote. I reviewed the story outline I had started with Don, who said, “Fine, fine. No problem,” and started to type. And all of a sudden, he stops. It was highly unusual that he’d stop typing once he started. I walked over and looked over his shoulder to see what he was stuck on. Don was just sitting there. He’d typed, “London. Page one, scene one, panel one, caption.” He wrote a couple of words after that—a couple of intelligible words, and then jibberish. He hadn’t typed more than a line.

Don Cameron Sidebar Neil Baldwin, writer of Henry Ford and the Jews: The Mass Production of Hate, confirmed that William J. and Don Cameron were indeed father and son. William John Cameron was born in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, in 1879 and died in 1955. Cameron’s wife was the former Eleanor M. Clough. Donald Clough Cameron was born in Detroit in 1905. Both men worked for The Detroit News, though perhaps not at the same time.

In earlier times, William J. Cameron had been a pastor in Brooklyn, Michigan,and had been known as a liberal and sympathetic to Jews.

Philip Slomovitz, editor of The Detroit Jewish News, stated that Cameron used to go Jewish meetings and “was always supportive of our community.” Either something changed Cameron’s mind, or else he had been surreptitiously fishing around for information that he could put to his own use.

Henry Ford backed The Dearborn Independent newspaper, which became “required” reading for his employees. When a lawsuit caused the paper to close in 1927, editor and head writer William J. Cameron became the spokesman and commentator for Ford’s Sunday night radio show, where he apparently worked from around 1933 until 1942. In a January 1942 radio broadcast, Ford had Cameron read a condemnation of anti-Semitism, though it’s unlikely either man had really changed his opinion.

During the 1930s, Cameron co-founded The Anglo-Saxon Federation of America— a group which believed that Anglo-Saxons were the lost tribe of Israel, and that Jesus was an Anglo-Saxon. Other people involved in this group included the infamous radio priest Father Charles Coughlin and Fritz Kuhn, head of the American German Bund—the U.S. Also seen in the tome that branch of the Nazis. Nice little collects the Sunday Batmans playmates in the sandbox of hate. is this photo of writer Don

Cameron (1905-1954), who As for Don Cameron, he quit high died far too young of school in the age of 16 and went to work cancer. for The Dearborn Press. He also worked for The Windsor Star in Ontario, The Detroit Free Press, The Detroit Times, and later The New York Mirror. He wrote several mystery novels, in addition to his comic book work. Cameron passed away in 1954, after a long illness. He was survived by a wife and a son, his parents, a brother, and a sister.

Special thanks to Steven and Sharon Rowe for some of the background information.

—Jim Amash.

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

17 pure speculation, because I really don’t know.

“Siegel and Shuster Were Both Really Good Guys” JA: While we’re talking about writers, let’s talk about Jerry Siegel. And Joe Shuster. They were at DC for years, getting started under Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson’s ownership. Neither man worked in the office, though you said Siegel did a few times. Shuster had his own studio, didn’t he?

Jerry Robinson splashes for two tales starring his hero “London,” who appeared in Lev Gleason’s Daredevil #2-11 during 1941-42. Both are repro’d from the original art—but in the case of the one wherein London is seeing if Hitler can “take it” for a change, Jerry had hand-colored the original. (Actually, he colored the other original page, too, but also sent us a black-&-white copy of it.) For more on “London,” see pp. 33-34. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

I looked at him and said, “Don. What’s up?” He didn’t answer. He had passed out. I took the paper out of the typewriter, folded it up, and said, “Gee, thanks, Don. That’s great!” [Jim laughs] I bid the lady “goodbye” and dashed back to my place. Now I had to write and draw it.

Don was fine up until he had that drink. He was right at the edge of being sober and able to work, and one drink put him over. That was the end of my collaboration with Don.

ROBINSON: He did later.

When I met him, he was mainly working at DC, and Jerry would come in and do some polishing on scripts.

Jerry didn’t work in the bullpen.

JA: Who was editing “Superman” when you started in the bullpen? Vin Sullivan had already left the company. Did Mort Weisinger replace him?

ROBINSON: I don’t know who immediately followed Sullivan. There were three editors who had a hand in editing Superman: Mort Weisinger, Jack Schiff, and Murray Boltinoff. Mort was probably the main editor.

JA: How did they handle Jerry Siegel, editorially speaking? I wonder, because he was there before they were and certainly understood Superman better than they did.

JA: I can understand that.

What a tragic man. He was at DC for some years, wasn’t he?

ROBINSON: I think he disappeared before I left DC, which was in 1947, but I’m not entirely sure of that. I don’t think he was in the bullpen when I started. He wrote a lot of “Superman” stories and some “Batman,” too.

JA: It’s so odd that he was the only writer on staff. Do you think that was because the editors wanted to keep an eye on him?

ROBINSON: He wasn’t necessarily on staff. Maybe he didn’t have a good place to work? According to his lifestyle, he may have been living in a hole in the wall, since he was going off on drinking binges all his life. That’s

(Left to right in photo:) Gro and Jerry Robinson, “Superman” artist/co-creator Joe Shuster, and his date at the opening of an exhibit of Jerry’s work, at the New School of Social Research, circa mid-1970s. And, since everybody’s seen the scene from Action Comics #1 wherein Superman rescues Lois Lane for the very first time and winds up tossing an automobile around, just like on the cover, here are two panels showing the hero’s second rescue of Lois, from Action #2. More about Siegel & Shuster on our flip side! [©2004 DC Comics.]

18 ROBINSON: I don’t recall that he was heavily edited in comparison to Bill Finger. They took Bill apart needlessly, who was also there before Weisinger and Schiff. Mort and Jack came from the pulps, so they had a good story background. They may have suggested story ideas and maybe done some editing on Jerry’s stories, but I don’t recall that they had much of a creative hand in Siegel’s work, at least during that time.

JA: I know what happened later, but how were they treated early on, before the lawsuits started?

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I JA: Even though he didn’t fight for Bill Finger.

ROBINSON: No, he didn’t do that for Bill. Or for me. [laughs] JA: Did it bother you to have to sign Bob Kane’s name on “Batman”?

ROBINSON: Well, not so much as it did later, because that was the routine at the time. Anybody who took over someone else’s strip didn’t sign his own name. The publishers didn’t want anybody else to attach any rights to the property. They just wanted to deal with one person. I accepted that standard, but knew I had to do something that was solely my own. There were always limitations on doing “Batman,” though they let me do it my way. I had to keep within the parameters of the basic look.

ROBINSON: I can only speak from around the middle of 1940, when I started in the bullpen. Siegel and Shuster were both really good guys.

Jerry was a very creative writer and wrote good stories besides “Superman,” because he created other characters in an effort to make a living. [NOTE: E.g., The StarJA: But I remember seeing a Spangled Kid and The Spectre. — “Batman” story with Tweedledee Jim.] But the traumatic experiences and Tweedledum, where you that he went through because of the signed your name in the trees.

Superman court battles were too much for him. He’d walk by a movie ROBINSON: [laughs] Maybe. I did theatre playing a Superman serial or things like that. We would have Robinson’s cover for Detective #74 (April 1943). That issue introduced the see Superman comics at a newsstand Batman run down a street, and put villains Tweedledum and Tweedledee, based on characters from Lewis and get physically ill. You can well names of family and friends on the Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland. You can read the Cameron/Kane/ imagine why: he created one of the storefronts. One time, I wrote “Al’s Robinson/Roussos/Paris story in Batman Archives, Vol. 3. most popular characters of the 20th [©2004 DC Comics.]

Cleaners” in a window and when the century, and he was penniless. Same book came out, I showed it to my thing with Joe. When I was living on 33rd Street with Bernie Klein and brother-in-law, Al. Mort Meskin, Jerry and Joe would come and hang out, as did many JA: I want to come back to Siegel and Shuster later on, but before we other artists. We were near DC, so it was convenient. leave them, are there any funny stories about either man that you JA: Siegel and Shuster created DC’s number one character, so the remember from the early days? editors weren’t browbeating the guys or being vicious towards them ROBINSON: Joe and I would double-date occasionally. As you know, in those early days, were they? he was very shy, and it was hard for him to meet women or make dates.

ROBINSON: Before the problems started, no. But when Jerry returned I guess it’s okay to say this now, but Joe was short, and sometimes short from the service and they tried to get some rights, the trouble started. people like tall mates. That was the case with Joe; he just went for tall Before that, in the sense that nobody got the fair return for their women. I didn’t always know five-ten or six-foot-tall women, so it was creations that they should have gotten—including Bob Kane at the difficult to match him up with someone. Sometimes, I’d set him up with time—DC was paying higher rates than anybody else. But nobody got a an attractive woman who didn’t measure. [mutual laughter] royalty or a commission or anything besides a page rate.

So, the next day, I’d say, “How did you like her, Joe? Are you going JA: But on a personal basis, they weren’t ogres in the way that, say, to see her again?” He’d say, “No, I don’t think so.” And she’d be Robert Kanigher was to Mort Meskin? attractive in every way, but if she wasn’t tall.... [laughter] I remember one time I took Joe to my hometown for a weekend and we stayed at ROBINSON: I didn’t see any evidence of that before the lawsuit, from my family’s house. I arranged a date for Joe with a cousin of mine, who my observations of Joe, whom I saw more often than Jerry. was very attractive and brilliant, but not tall. He went out with her, but there was no real interest going because she was not tall enough. That’s JA: The image we have of Siegel and Shuster is that they were very why it took him a long time to get married, and when he did, I think she shy people. How close is that to the truth? was a tall girl.

ROBINSON: In those early days, it was true. It took those traumatic One other thing about Joe was that he was underrated as an artist. He events to get Jerry to speak up and go public with what had happened to wasn’t able to draw for very long, because his eyesight was terrible, even him. And that was a long time after the lawsuits. Jerry and Joe’s lawsuits back then. Of course, later on, he was certifiably blind; but even when I began after World War II, but they didn’t go public then. They were shy knew him, he worked about two or three inches from the paper. He people, which was probably a reason why they didn’t get what they wasn’t the greatest draftsman, but had an innate sense of drama and should have. Now, Bob Kane was not shy; he really fought for everystorytelling. thing he got.

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age JA: I always thought he was a real Roy Crane fan, because I see a lot of Captain Easy in the “Slam Bradley” and early “Superman” drawings—especially in their facial expressions. I thought Shuster’s style was perfect for the early “Superman.”

ROBINSON: Yes, it was. Maybe it wasn’t as polished as some other features, but Joe gave “Superman” a certain style that worked. His early covers were great. They really caught the spirit of “Superman” and were very visual, poster-like images. If he’d had good eyesight, he’d have done even better. He reminds me of James Thurber, whose unique style came because of his poor eyesight.

JA: And then “Superman” expands into its own title and a newspaper strip, so there was no way Joe could do all the art, even if his eyes had been good. He didn’t have much time to do more than draw the main faces or perhaps basic layouts at times.

ROBINSON: Right.

They had to hire other people to do entire stories. The same thing happened with “Batman.” You can see what the workload became, and as you said, even in the best of times, Joe couldn’t have produced the necessary volume of work.

“Bill [Finger] Didn’t Realize How Good He Was” JA: I’d like to get back to Bill Finger.

What were his circumstances once he worked directly for DC? I assume he had married Portia by this time, but I’m wondering what he must have been feeling, because his situation has changed. Here he was, the co-creator of “Batman,” and he’s not getting any recognition, and he’s still writing the feature. He also began writing other things besides “Batman.” Do you know what was going through his head at the time?

ROBINSON: Yes, because he was a good friend and I socialized with him and Portia. Bill wasn’t doing well. He was making some more money, but not enough. I often had to give him loans. It did hackle him that he wasn’t given fair credit. Its bothered him even while we were working for Bob. I think that was part of his motivation—besides money—for leaving Bob, although I think that if he was paid enough, he might not have left, at least not at that time. Bill was human, intelligent, and sensitive, so you can imagine how he felt. I think all these factors contributed to his feelings of inadequacy.

19

stories. Bob wasn’t a writer and he didn’t critique the stories like they did over at DC. JA: So, once at DC, Bill would have story conferences with Weisinger and Schiff. How did they treat Bill? Considering he was shy and laidback and had no co-creator credit, did they take advantage of his personality and run rough-shod over him?

ROBINSON: They treated him terribly. They gave him a hard time, and a lot of it was on the grounds that he was often late with his stories.

This, I felt, was terribly unwarranted. When he was late, it was partly because he was a slow writer and an exacting craftsman. He wanted to get it right, putting thought and creativity in his scripts. He was innovative in his plots and continually came up with new characters. He did a lot of research on the stories. He always attached reference material to his scripts, which greatly benefited the artists. The editors didn’t appreciate his brilliance. They also nitpicked his scripts—seemingly trying to find something to criticize. They’d verbally browbeat him, and a lot of times I’d just cringe.

JA: You mean they did that in front of everyone?

ROBINSON: They embarrassed the hell out of him. You see, all the editors were lined up in the bullpen. Their offices weren’t closed off. Against one wall was Whit Ellsworth’s desk, alongside Mort Weisinger’s, Schiff’s, and Boltinoff’s desks. They faced the bullpen, which was separated from the editors by an aisle.

JA: Were their offices in cubicles?

ROBINSON: No. Later, Whit got his own private office, though half the time I worked on staff, he was right out in the open.

JA: So anytime one of those editors worked their “magic” on the freelancers, everybody in the bullpen would know about it.

ROBINSON: Yes, you couldn’t help but hear— and see—it. And Bill was often in debt, because he was not a prolific writer.

JA: I interviewed someone who knew Bill in the 1950s who said Bill had a drinking problem.

ROBINSON: Anybody who was treated as he was might turn to drink, but that wasn’t the case in the beginning.

JA: And he wasn’t the type to fight back with those editors, either.

JA: Was he the type to have argued with Kane over credit?

ROBINSON: Not really. Bill was kind-of laid-back, and I think he didn’t confront Bob in the fear of losing what he did have. Bob was intimidating. Bill needed the work. He got married and had a son, so there were others depending on him to make a living. He didn’t have that problem of fear with Bob once we left and he was working directly for DC. He never had a hard time with Bob over the content of the

The Roy Crane Influence: (Top:) Crane’s Cap’n Easy and Wash in a 1932 Wash Tubbs comic strip. (Center:) Slam Bradley and his pal Shorty, drawn by Joe Shuster in Detective Comics #1 (March 1937). (Above:) A pair of “Superman” panels from Action Comics #1. [Wash Tubbs ©2004 Newspaper Enterprises Association; Slam Bradley & Superman art ©2004 DC Comics.]

20

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

(Left to right:) Jack Lehti drew a costumed “Crimson Avenger” in Detective Comics #79 (Sept. 1943), before moving on to create the newspaper comic strip Tales of the Great Book—Stan Kaye drew such features as “Genius Jones” (this panel from Adventure Comics #78, Sept. 1942), and later became a valued inker on “Superman,” “Superboy,” et al.—while Lee Harris was the original and later artist of “Air Wave,” a Detective regular who would be drawn by George Roussos between 1942-43. This splash is from Detective #134 (April 1948); thanks to Bob Cherry. [©2004 DC Comics.]

ROBINSON: No, he wasn’t. He was very insecure. Bill didn’t realize how good he was. It’s like a Hollywood actress who was acclaimed for her beauty, and years later, she’d say, “I didn’t realize I was that beautiful. I’d have done things differently if I’d have known.”

Bill and I started to moonlight outside of DC because we both wanted more money and couldn’t get it from them. I also wanted to do my own thing, under my own name. I think Bill was more appreciated by other publishers, and he did do a lot of work for various places— including some early television scripts.

JA: When you started moonlighting from DC, did Bill write any of your stories?

ROBINSON: No. I tried to write my own as much as I could. I’d started out to be a writer and that’s what I wanted to do. I only turned to scriptwriters when I was under duress and needed to make deadlines.

“Bernie Klein Was My Protector” JA: I’d like to ask you about some people at DC, starting with Jack Lehti.

ROBINSON: I remember he worked at DC, but not in the bullpen, so I didn’t get to know him.

JA: Stan Kaye.

ROBINSON: I don’t know too much about Stan, personally. We didn’t have any extroverts there, except for Bob Kane. Stan was a good artist and a painter, as was Cliff Young, who was a classy guy. They worked in the back row and you never heard a word from them, unless you approached them. Stan Kaye (and maybe Cliff, too) assisted Dean Cornwell, the famous muralist. When they were through at DC for the day, they’d work evenings and weekends with Cornwell.

JA: How about Lee Harris, whose real name was Harris Levy?

ROBINSON: I knew him. In fact, for a short time, he shared an apartment with Bernie Klein and me in the West 70s.

JA: Did he go by the name Lee Harris in his personal life, or was that just a pen name?

ROBINSON: I knew his real name, but he was “Lee Harris” to us. Do you have much information on him?

JA: Not really.

ROBINSON: There was one incident with Lee. When I met Bernie, he was an amateur boxer in Trenton. He also worked for the Trenton Times, unloading paper. He was short, but husky. At the time we met,

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

21

he was also occasionally selling sports cartoons to the Trenton Times for $5 a cartoon.

“I Lost My Best Friend at Anzio”

Anyway, Lee and I got into an argument one day. When I was young, I used to box in Boy Scout camp—in the 78-pound class—so I didn’t mind boxing. We’d started this fight and Lee had just landed a punch, when Bernie walked into the room. And he went over to Lee—Bernie was my protector—and said, “If you want to fight, fight me.” And Bernie hauled off and hit Lee once. Lee flew across the room, slammed against the wall, and crumpled down to the floor. After that, Lee was always very polite. [mutual laughter] Many years later, an art director asked to see my portfolio for a particular job. I saw Lee Harris working in the agency’s bullpen.

JA: Bernie was in World War II. Was he drafted or did he volunteer?

Lee had some pictures that I’d give anything for. They were pictures of Bernie and me. We were walking down 75th street and took pictures of each other. I climbed up on the railing of a townhouse and pretended to be Batman.

JA: You were eighteen when you met Bernie Klein. Tell me how you got him into DC Comics.

ROBINSON: I’ll have to digress a little, back to how we met. I was from Trenton, and all my friends and family were still there in 1941. I was invited to a New Year’s Eve party in 1940. Because of Batman, I was a minor celebrity in Trenton, with articles in the Trenton Times.

ROBINSON: He was drafted. I guess because of his war experience in the comic books, he was assigned to a unit of combat photographers. He was shipped off to North Africa and wrote to me from there. He went through the entire North African campaign. Now, combat photographers were usually in groups of four or six. If someone was wounded or killed, they were replaced, so they’d keep the unit a consistent number.

Bernie was shot down at least twice in North Africa and survived.

Several in his team were killed and replaced. Only Bernie and couple of others survived the entire campaign. It was very dangerous, because they were right up on the front lines.

He landed in Sicily with the invasion that kicked the Germans out.

Then they made a landing on the Italian mainland at Anzio [in January 1944]. The aim was to cut off the German supply line and cut off the German retreat to Rome. This was on the way to Rome. Instead, it was badly bungled and they were trapped on the beach. They weren’t able to get very far. The Germans brought up reserves and we took heavy casualties. Bernie survived all of that until one day... it was the strangest coincidence regarding how I found out what happened to him.

At the party, I was told that there was a young cartoonist who was anxious to meet me.

Around one o’clock in the morning, Bernie introduced himself. He was very personable and looked like a young John Garfield. He told me what he was doing and asked how he could break into comics. He showed me some of his work, which was quite good. I told him to draw up some samples to show around, what size to make the pages, and what he should draw and how to present them.

I said, “When you’re ready, give me a ring and I’ll introduce you around.” He was overjoyed. More than a month passed and I didn’t hear from him. One day, I got a call from Bernie. He was in New York, so we got together for dinner. It turned out he had been in New York for almost a month. He took his work around and got a job at MLJ, because he wanted to do it on his own. That was typical Bernie. He became like a brother to me.

In very short order, we decided to get an apartment together. One day, I went to visit him at MLJ, which was a second- or third-string publisher, compared to DC, but had a great staff: among them was Mort Meskin, Charlie Biro, Bob Wood, and Irv Novick. I became friends with all of them.

I soon brought Bernie up to DC, and Whit hired him as a freelancer.

DC paid much better than MLJ, and that’s when we got that apartment together. When I saw Mort’s terrific work, I also brought him up to DC, and he was immediately hired on staff. Almost right away, Mort was doing “Vigilante” and “Johnny Quick.” Bernie preferred to freelance, so he worked for DC and other companies.

Bernie Klein clowning around at the studio he shared with Jerry Robinson and George Roussos, in a 1940-41 photo taken around the same time as those on pp. 3 & 12—plus a page drawn by Klein, with script by Dick Wood.

“Whirlwind, the Blond Bomber” appeared in Gleason’s Daredevil Comics #2-10, 1941-42. Thanks to both Jerry and Bill Cain for the photo.

[Art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

22

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

Many years later, I was in Washington, D.C., at some event where some officers were reminiscing about the war. One guy said he had survived Anzio, so I immediately perked up and asked, “I lost my best friend at Anzio. Did you ever hear of a combat photographer named Bernie Klein?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “You’re kidding!” He went on, “I was there the day he was killed. We were separated from the other troops. The only way we could communicate with them was to go over this exposed road and drive like mad.”

That sounded like Bernie, because he’d be in the thick of it.

He got in a jeep with his cameras, and while going down that road, they took a direct hit and everyone in the jeep was instantly killed. That was how I found out how Bernie died.

When I first heard that Bernie died, I was devastated. I heard about it on a visit to Trenton. His family and friends heard about it first and told me. After that, I had dreams about Bernie every night for over 25 years. The circumstances in the dreams would be different, but they all had the same theme. I’d suddenly get a call from someone that Bernie was back—that he hadn’t been killed—and he was in Trenton somewhere and they were going to try to locate him. And I’d be so excited that I’d try to find him myself. But I couldn’t find him or catch up to him.

something there. Someone had set up a little desk, and was selling tickets to New York. So I managed to get on this plane, whatever airline it was.

The guy behind the desk told me we’d take off from the other side of the field, but they’d have a car to drive me over.

I reported to the front of the terminal, and there’s the same guy who sold me the ticket—driving this small bus. I got on with several other people and we rode over to our plane. We got on the plane, got settled, and this same guy came down the aisle to check our tickets.

And then, we took off. After a while, a voice on the intercom asked if anyone wanted to sit in the cockpit. I went up.

I sat down in the absent copilot’s seat and looked over at the pilot. It’s the same guy! I swear to God! This was giving me less and less confidence. And the worst was yet to come. This was during the day, by the way.

He spread out this map on his lap and said, “This is where we are. Look out for this peninsula”—then to look out for a lighthouse, then some other landmarks. This was how we flew up to New York! I was spotting landmarks for him, so he’d know where we were. I was sweating by this time. Some of our trip was over land, some of it over water. Anyway, I finally got back.

I called my draft board, and they said it looked like the war was nearly over, so they weren’t calling up any more men. They kidded me by saying, “Well, when the Nazis reach 14th Street, we’ll call you.” [mutual laughter]

In another dream, I searched for him in my car, everywhere, in houses that I knew—trying to find him. It always turned out that I’d just miss him, so I never caught up with him. Sometimes he’d come to New York, and I’d JA: You mentioned that your miss him here. I had endless hometown paper did a writeOnly one story drawn by Bernie Klein has been reprinted in hardcover: the “Dr. variations of these dreams every up about you. That makes me Fate” chapter in All-Star Comics #12 (Aug.-Sept. 1942), the second post-Pearl night for all those years. Finally, I wonder what your family Harbor tale of the “Justice Society of America.” It’s a nice piece of work, on don’t know exactly when it display in All Star Comics Archives, Vol. 3. [©2004 DC Comics.] thought about your being a happened, but the dreams ceased. comic book artist.

I figure it took that long for my subconscious to accept the fact that Bernie was not coming back. He was ROBINSON: I think they were proud, especially my brothers and like my brother. He meant that much to me. sister. My parents didn’t know anything about comic books, because the JA: He sure did. By the way, why weren’t you in the service?

ROBINSON: I was called up a couple of times, but couldn’t pass a physical. It was nothing serious, but I was terribly underweight because I was burning the candle at both ends. They gave me a deferment.

As it turned out, they called me again—while I was in Florida—to come back for another physical. In those war days, it was almost impossible to get a flight to Florida and back. Anyone who could put together an airplane with gum or string had his own airline business. All you needed was a plane to take up the slack of the regular airlines.

I had to get back to New York in short order, but couldn’t get a ticket. Finally, I went out to the airport and thought I could pick up

medium was so new. But everyone was very supportive. They knew I wanted to be in New York and study journalism.

We were just getting out of the Great Depression, and my parents had had a difficult time putting my brothers through college. I couldn’t see going to school for eight or nine years. Four years for a journalism degree wasn’t bad. I took the job with Bob to help relieve the financial strain on my parents. I had no idea that job would change my life and sixty-some years later, I’d be talking to Jim Amash about it. [laughter] JA: That’s the price you pay for fame, Jerry.

ROBINSON: Well, I’ll know better next time.

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

“Jack [Kirby] Created Concepts That Just Weren’t Done Before” JA: [laughs] You’re only allowed one mistake per lifetime, you know.

Now, since we’ve been talking about the creative people you knew at DC, I’d like to hear what you remember about Joe Simon and Jack Kirby.

ROBINSON: I met Jack before I met Joe, because Jack worked at DC—at least for a while—at the drawing board next to mine.

23

JA: Did you ever go to lunch with him?

ROBINSON: Oh, I’m sure I did.

JA: Do you remember if Jack wrote those stories while he drew them?

Some people, like Charlie, Dan Barry, and Jack himself, say he did.

But I know Simon and Kirby hired writers, too.

ROBINSON: If Jack had a script, he’d diverge from it, as the rest of us did. I don’t have any memory of Jack writing as he drew. I’d think that’d disrupt the flow of his drawing. So if he did write them, he had the script in advance, instead of making it up as he went along.

JA: Charlie Paris told me Jack worked in the bullpen for a JA: Would the editors ever say while, and you’re reaffirming anything about an artist his statement. But both Simon diverging from a script? and Kirby have told me that they also had a studio in Tudor ROBINSON: No, not really. I City, cranking out as much DC don’t think they even realized work as they could before they we did that. If Bill Finger came A cheerful (and talented) group at the San Diego Comic-Con, probably late ’80s, went into military service. They in and noticed, he wouldn’t with mention of the features they drew (left to right): Will Eisner (The Spirit)—cohad some people, like Gil Kane, complain about it. I don’t founder Shel Dorf—Burne Hogarth (Tarzan)—Jerry Robinson (Batman)—and Jack the Cazeneuve brothers, etc., remember having any personal Kirby (everything else—or at least it often seemed like it). helping them. I know you were relationships with other writers, in the bullpen before Jack was, though I drew a lot of “Batman” stories written by various people. and what I’m wondering is if, after all this time, can you recall how long Kirby worked in the bullpen?

ROBINSON: I think he was there part or most of a year, but I’m not certain exactly how long.

“I Redrew Parts of the Damaged [Little Nemo] Panels”

JA: Did Joe Simon work in the bullpen?

JA: Off tape, you mentioned you knew Bob McCay, the son of Winsor McCay. I’d like to hear about him.

ROBINSON: Not that I recall; he must have done his brilliant work at home. Jack was, of course, an extraordinary talent, which we all recognized even at that time. I considered myself to be a fairly fast artist, but I was a tortoise compared to Jack.

ROBINSON: Bob worked in the DC bullpen for a couple of years. He was doing paste-ups and mechanicals. One day, he asked me to help him out over a weekend. He was doing something with his father’s work. At this time, I was not aware of Winsor McCay’s work.

Jack created concepts that just weren’t done before. His figures were so dynamic that he created another dimension on the page. I was really conscious of composition and storytelling, but everything I did remained within the picture plane. Jack went beyond that, creating space without borders. His figures exploded in all directions.

I went up to Bob’s apartment. He was putting his father’s Little Nemo in Slumberland pages in shape in order to re-syndicate them, which he did for a while. He had a two-foot-high stack of Nemo originals. I was very bowled over seeing them for the first time.

He had to be extremely adept at perspective in order to achieve that effect. Jack knew how to draw on paper what he visualized in his mind.

His compositions were dynamic and emotional. His figures were bursting with energy—while he calmly puffed on his cigar.

JA: When Jack sat there working, he didn’t talk much or make any noises, did he?

ROBINSON: No, he was pretty quiet. Together, we did the cover to Detective Comics # 65, with his Boy Commandos and my Batman and Robin.

JA: Charlie Paris told me that Jack used to sit down at eight o’clock in the morning, light a cigar, and go to work. He said the only time Jack would get up from his chair was to go to lunch, and that he continually smoked a cigar. Once he finished one, he’d immediately light another up, so by the end of the day, Jack’s eyes were red from all the cigar smoke. He was practically chain-smoking cigars.

ROBINSON: I do remember sitting next to Jack and coughing all day, but I don’t think anyone started working before 9:00 a.m.

Some pages had a panel missing here and there, and others had damaged panels that needed to be fixed. I redrew parts of the damaged panels, and drew new ones as substitutes for the missing ones. So, somewhere in the world are Little Nemo pages that have some of my panels.

I worked with Bob for a couple of weekends. One day, I saw a stack of his father’s editorial cartoons. I thought they were fantastic! Bob told me to take some, which I initially refused to do. I felt bad about taking his father’s work, but he insisted, so I took three of them. In hindsight, if I’d have asked for Little Nemo pages, he’d have given me as many as I wanted. They weren’t thought of as valuable back then. I gave two of the editorial cartoons to friends, but still have one on my wall today.

JA: The reason some of the Nemo pages had missing panels was because [Bob] McCay had previously reworked some of them in order to make comic book pages. Companies like MLJ ran a few “Nemo” stories.

ROBINSON: I didn’t know that. That would explain why he had to put those pages back in shape.

JA: I’m hoping you can verify something for me. Years ago, John

24

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

As per this house ad from Boy Commandos #2 (Spring 1943), DC really played up the Joe Simon & Jack Kirby team after they came over from launching Captain America for Timely/Marvel in 1941. Dig the gorgeous “Boy Commandos” two-page spread, also from #2—and the splash of the BC look-alike “Newsboy Legion” from Star Spangled Comics #8 (May 1942).

All this, plus “Sandman” over in Adventure—even if somebody forgot to letter a couple of words in that part of the ad! [©2004 DC Comics.]

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

25

JA: Tell me about Weisinger.

ROBINSON: He was rather stout and often laughing and joking. He was very creative. I think he was hired by Whit. Mort really did a lot with “Superman,” though he was one of those guys who was very tough on Bill Finger. So was Jack Schiff. I never forgave them for that. But I really didn’t have any direct dealings with either Weisinger or Schiff.

They didn’t get too involved in the art—the stories were their thing. I don’t remember a single time that they critiqued my work.

JA: Weisinger has a reputation today for being real difficult, but I guess he wasn’t so bad in those days.

ROBINSON: Yeah, well... he had his moments. [laughter] I told you how he treated Bill, and other writers, too. I felt that I was responsible only to Whit and not to them. And Whit seldom interfered with me, which is why I considered him a great editor. [laughs] JA: What was it like when you did the World’s Finest covers, because you were collaborating with other artists? How did that work? Who laid out the covers?

ROBINSON: It varied. I collaborated with Fred Ray on most of them, because he was doing the Superman covers. He drew the Superman figures and I did the Batman and Robin figures. Sometimes I laid them out, and other times, Fred did. One of us had the idea for the theme—or we worked it out together.

JA: Would you have to work a little closer with Whit Ellsworth

Today, originals from Winsor McCay’s Little Nemo in Slumberland are some of the most valuable artifacts from 20th-century comic strips. But, back in the 1940s, McCay’s son Bob cut some of them up for reprinting in comic books—and Jerry Robinson wound up doing a bit of redrawing on the remnants, though not necessarily on these panels from 1909. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Belfi told me that Bob McCay had a drinking problem, and that several cartoonists used to help him do his work. But Gill Fox told me that McCay wasn’t a drinker, but that he had been gassed in World War I and that caused him some problems. You have any thoughts about this?

ROBINSON: I didn’t know about his war experiences. I never saw Bob drink or be impaired in any way. He just needed help in drawing.

JA: Did he seem like a happy man to you?

ROBINSON: No. He was withdrawn and very quiet. If he had any problems, I wasn’t privy to them. It must have been hard to have to follow in his father’s footsteps, though I don’t believe Winsor McCay was as well-known in my time as he is today.

“We Mostly Did What We Wanted” JA: Do you remember Bernie Breslauer, who was an editor?

ROBINSON: I don’t remember too much about him, and I don’t think I ever worked directly for him.

JA: Weisinger and Schiff were doing both “Superman” and “Batman,” along with Murray Boltinoff, who also edited other books.

Did you have many dealings with them or did you mainly deal with Whit Ellsworth?

ROBINSON: I had a few dealings with Weisinger and Schiff—mainly on stories. I never had any problem with them on art. Of course, we worked in close proximity—in the same room.

According to Batman: The World’s Finest Comics Archives, Vol. 1, Jerry penciled and Fred Ray inked this “Batman” story from WFC #11 (Fall 1943).

By this time, Jack Burnley was drawing the World’s Finest covers.

Script by Bill Finger. [©2004 DC Comics.]

26

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

Steps on Bob Kane’s journey to super-stardom: according to his autobiography Batman and Me, his first published feature (in WOW What a Magazine! #3 (Sept. 1936)—and a page from “The Case of the Missing Heir” in Detective Picture Stories, Vol. 1, #5 (April 1937), from Comics Magazine Company, forerunner of the Centaur group. He signed both stories. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

because there are two artists working on the same cover?

ROBINSON: Not much, as I recall. Once we had an idea of what we wanted to do, we might have discussed it with Whit or showed him a sketch first. But we mostly did what we wanted.

JA: I think some of those World’s Finest covers are among the most playful of that time. For instance, the one where Superman, Batman, and Robin are playing baseball—World’s Finest #3. It seems like you guys were having fun.

ROBINSON: We were. We were usually working on our own things, so collaborating was a nice change of pace. Fred was a wonderful guy and a good friend. He was very shy, but with a great personality. I can still see his grin and hear his distinctive laugh.

JA: How was the pay split up? Was it 50-50 between the two of you?

ROBINSON: I think at that time—we were both on staff—so we were probably paid a flat rate. Fred was a very fine artist, and DC rightly thought a lot of him. After all, he was drawing the Superman covers, so you can see how important Fred was to the company. Fred really knew how to draw—his work had an easy flow and he was a fine storyteller.

He produced a lot of work, and always with quality.

JA: Was he on staff when you started?

ROBINSON: That’s a good question, but I don’t remember. If he had been there before me, it wasn’t by much.

JA: He also did a couple of Batman covers, too.

ROBINSON: I believe he did. I wasn’t doing all the covers. And Bob Kane did a few covers, too. His penciled covers were fairly rough, so I generally finished them. There are a few misattributions of some of my work, and vice-versa.

JA: Is one where Batman and Robin are in a spotlight [Batman #9]?

ROBINSON: I believe so.

“I Have to Admire Bob [Kane] for What He Did” JA: I guess DC didn’t feel any compunction about taking the cover assignments away from Bob Kane.

ROBINSON: Not at all. First of all, Bob couldn’t keep up with the demand for Batman art. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes.

But it was already out of Bob’s hands, so he couldn’t do much about it.

JA: Well, the genie was out of the bottle by then. He should never have let control slip out of his hands.

ROBINSON: I know. We thought that Bob was being very shortsighted, because as I told you, he could have set up his own studio, like Eisner and Iger did. He could have hired the artists himself and kept control. I’m glad he didn’t, though. [laughs] JA: Was drawing a struggle for Kane? Because he started out as a humor artist.

ROBINSON: It was. The transition from humor to adventure was difficult for Bob. I have to admire Bob for what he did, because it’s easier to go from drawing adventure work to humor, than the other way around. That’s what I did later on. But to go from humor to adventure— not knowing anatomy or how to dramatize—it was a struggle for Bob in the beginning. In a way, I think it helped develop his own style. Bob had to concentrate on drama and storytelling, rather than get bogged down on anatomy, perspective, etc., etc. Once George Roussos and I were on board, we could straighten out the drawing problems. Bob couldn’t draw on the level of Jack Kirby or Alex Toth, but he was able to give it a certain look in the beginning. On staff, George and I still inked his work, in addition to my own stories and covers. I did the figures and some of the backgrounds, though George did most of the latter.

JA: And by this time, Bob’s pencils were pretty loose, weren’t they?

ROBINSON: They got looser and looser. Sometimes, he’d write “Batman on the roof of building”—and we’d have to actually draw it.

JA: I remember what Charlie Paris told me. He inked the first set of Batman dailies for the newspaper strip and said, “I know Bob Kane

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

27 their eyes and spoke of you in the highest esteem.

ROBINSON: Then put that in this interview! [laughter] JA: You know I will!

Three “Batman” artists supreme, in another San Diego Comic-Con grouping, this one definitely from 1989. (L. to r.:) Charles Paris, Jerry Robinson, Dick Sprang. At right is a Sprang-penciled, Paris-inked page from “The Undersea Batman” in Batman #86 (Sept. 1954). [©2004 DC Comics.]

actually drew those strips, because the work was so bad that it couldn’t have been anyone else’s work.”

That was his assessment of Bob Kane’s work, whom he didn’t care for either personally or professionally.

ROBINSON: Charlie worked a lot with Dick Sprang, who was a great cartoonist. I remember when I was in San Diego a few years ago. I was given an achievement award and they threw a party at art collector John Province’s house. When I arrived, there were Charlie Paris and Dick Sprang. I hadn’t seen Charlie since I left DC in 1947, so it’d been almost fifty years since we’d seen each other as young men. It was great to see him and we embraced.

JA: I knew Charlie very well. As you know, I used to put on comic book conventions, and in 1989, Dick and Charlie were my guests. [NOTE: See the Dick Sprang/Charles Paris interview in Alter Ego #20. —Jim.] They really thought the world of you.

Every time your name came up, they both had a glow in

ROBINSON: I thought the world of them, too. Charlie was a lovely guy, kind of laid-back and very sweet—a very capable artist. He did his own thing and never raised a ruckus about anything.

So to get back to my story, after Charlie and I embrace, I turned to Dick Sprang and we fell into each other’s arms.

Then we stood back and looked at each other, and it simultaneously dawned on us that we had never met before.

We thought we knew each other so well, but it was only through our work! We embraced like we were the oldest of friends and had a good laugh about that.

I remember the party was held in that place because Dick told me that Bob Kane was at

Two vintage Robinson “Batman” splashes. “Brothers in Crime” is from Batman #12 (Aug.-Sept. 1942), “The Case Batman Failed to Solve!!!” from Batman #14 (Dec. 1942-Jan. 1943). Jerry says he “didn’t know anything about typography” when he designed the classic “Batman” logo. Guess that’s the reason the lettering slants upward from left to right. Still, that masthead remains by far the hero’s best-known (and, we think, best) one, enduring from the early 1940s through the late ’60s. Some of us miss it still! [©2004 DC Comics.]

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I JA: Well, Charlie did. He told me Batman’s chest emblem was supposed to have five points and that Dick Sprang would sometimes draw six or more points. Charlie would change it back to five, in order to keep it consistent. Charlie said it was the only thing Dick wasn’t perfect at. But you have copyrightable characters here, and here’s Superman’s emblem changing at times and Batman’s emblem being inconsistent. I guess the company wasn’t concerned about it early on.

(Above:) Jerry Robinson visits a group of Cuban cartoonists, a few years back. (Right:) Half a century after that trip to Cuba in 1941, Jerry’s still drawing on the walls! At right he’s with some kids “in the favella (poorest area)” of Rio de Janiero, Brazil, circa 1995.

the convention, and Dick wouldn’t attend the convention the days Bob attended.

JA: You know, the source of Dick’s problem came years after he had drawn “Batman.” Dick was irritated that Kane would tell people he drew Dick’s work, and since the work was signed “Bob Kane,” it was easy for Kane to say that. Dick didn’t like the fact that, in later years, Kane rarely gave credit to the artists who actually did the work. Kane would intimate that Dick worked for him, which wasn’t true. And he was unhappy about how Bill Finger had been treated by Kane, since Dick knew Finger had cocreated “Batman.”

ROBINSON: I must say that I really liked Bob in the beginning. He was very amiable, though he had a great ego. This was before it got too bad. But after all, he had a great eye for talent. [mutual laughter] JA: He did, but quite frankly, even as a teenager, you were a better artist than Kane.

ROBINSON: I only had thirty days in an art school, where all I did was copy from plaster casts. I had no real art training. I worked very, very hard to improve.

JA: Another thing that strikes me as interesting was that in the early days, from say 1939 to about 1941, maybe 1942, the Batman emblem on his chest underwent a few changes. For instance, when Robin was introduced, you actually drew the spine of the wings inside the chest emblem. Was that your idea?

ROBINSON: I don’t know, but I remember doing that. I know it wasn’t done before I started on the feature. I designed the logo with the head of Batman and the wings with his name inside. If you look at the early ones, they’re quite different. DC’s used that design since then.

Look at the shapes of the letters. I didn’t know anything about typography; I just drew the letters as I visualized them.

JA: The reason why I bring up the slight variations in the Batman emblem is because I notice that the Superman chest emblem changes a bit during his formative years, too. In fact, even more so than Batman’s emblem. Some artists would change the number of points on the bat emblem. Why did it take so long to decide on a standard for these chest emblems?

ROBINSON: Well, someone must have eventually looked at them and made a decision. The artists were doing their own thing and probably didn’t follow the design too literally.

“We Decided to Hop a Plane for Havana” ROBINSON: They probably didn’t get the point! I did five, by the way, but it was a matter of rhythm and design, for me.

By the way, I have a story for you that fits in the time we’re talking about. This happened around 1941. I was knocking around Miami for a couple of weeks. I may have taken some “Batman” work to do while I was there. I bumped into a friend from my hometown, Trenton. We decided to hop a plane for Havana. Getting to Cuba was no big deal in those days. This was the pre-Castro Cuba, then ruled by Batista.

We got a hotel room in downtown Havana, and wandered around for a few days. Downtown was alive with people and there was a lot to do.

We met up with a couple of college girls from the States, who were doing the same thing. The four of us decided to see the country. My Trenton friend and I had already hired a car and a driver. I remember the driver was a very funny guy, with missing front teeth. Wherever we went or no matter for how long, he was always waiting for us. He was a constant companion.

We all got in the car and went to explore the wilds of Cuba. It was on the spur of the moment, so we weren’t prepared—no food or drink with us—and this was the middle of summer. It was very hot while we were driving through the cane fields. We got very thirsty and couldn’t find a place to get a drink. By this time, we were traveling on dusty back roads.

Finally, we came to a crossroad and there was a small building at the corner.

We went in, and fortuitously, it turned out to be a little make-shift bar. It consisted of two small rooms—one was the bar, and the other had a pool table—apparently the only two forms of recreation for the district. We ordered some drinks and my friend—unknown to me—told the bartender (who spoke a little English) that I was a very famous cartoonist who drew “Batman.” “Batman” was only a couple of years old, so I didn’t think it was known by anybody in Cuba.

The bartender got very excited. “Oh, Señor, you have to draw a Batman on the wall”—a big white wall. When I pleaded that I didn’t have anything to draw with, he said, “Un momento,” and left the room.

He came back, smiling, with a can of house paint and a big brush, about four inches wide. That’s what I had to work with.

By this time, everyone was pretty happy and I agreed to make a stab at it. He got me a crate to stand on. I started painting a mural of Batman flying over Havana. I was very absorbed in what I was doing, trying to

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age get a line with that brush. As I was finishing it, I became conscious of a buzz behind me. I turned around and saw that the whole bar was jammed with people. Now, when we pulled up to the bar, there wasn’t another person or house within sight. Where they came from, God only knows. But the word must have spread around that something unusual was happening at the bar.

They were all looking up, wild-eyed. I must have seemed like a creature from outer space. So I finished up with some dramatics and bowed to the audience. They started shouting, “¡Olé, Batman! ¡Olé!”

Now, I figured I’d get back at my friends. I thought I’d have fun with my date, so I said to the bartender, “You think I’m famous?”—pointing to the woman I’m with. “She’s the United States pool champion.” Well, with that, they go crazy! I knew she’d have to give some kind of demonstration. In an aside, she asked, “What are billiards?” She had never seen a billiard table before!

As we were escorted to the table, I whispered, “Look, I’m going to pretend to teach you how to play billiards, which will be funny to them, because they think I’m trying to teach the World’s Champion. But I will really show you to do something to satisfy them.” I made a big show of showing her how to hold the pool cue, and the people were all laughing.

I hammed it up and everything I did was funny to the crowd.

I said, “You have to take one shot, because they’ll never let us out of here unless you show them something. I’ll pretend to guide your stroke and then you hit the ball. It doesn’t matter what happens. You take the stroke, and then we’ll leave.” Everybody crowded into the room and around the table. I set two balls near each other at the end of the table and the cue ball in front of her, figuring she might hit one of the balls. She let go a wild stroke and boom!—she hit the cue ball in the middle. It flew right between the two balls, they split off into opposite directions, and both went right into the pockets! I’m telling you that a pro couldn’t have done this once in a hundred times!

Everyone let out a scream that you wouldn’t believe. I took her arm and started walking out. The people parted like the Red Sea as we went to the car, and our driver pompously opened the door for us. By this time, the Cubans were lining both sides of the road and waved their hats and yelled “¡Olé!” as we made our grand departure!

There’s an epilogue to this story. Almost sixty years later, I went to Cuba on a trip with some American cartoonists as the guests of the Cuban journalists. The people in

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Cuba love Americans, despite our stupid embargo. They distinguish the difference between the American people and our laws. We were treated royally everywhere we went. One evening, we were drinking with the Cuban cartoonists and I told them the story of my Cuban adventure.

One of them printed the story in their paper, hoping to track down that bar. They were sure that the mural was still up in the bar, as nothing has been painted in Cuba in decades. But nobody ever found it. One writer thought there must be a myth in those cane fields of the day Batman and the American woman’s billiards champion descended on their bar.

“A Newspaper Strip Was Something All of Us Wanted to Do” JA: I know you were good friends with Hal Sherman, so tell me about him.

ROBINSON: I met Hal at DC, when he was hired on staff to draw “The Star-Spangled Kid.” He had been an excellent gag cartoonist for magazines. He had never drawn adventure features or straight stuff. He had the same problem Bob Kane did, which was to adapt to a more realistic drawing style. Hal drew and composed pages fairly well, but he’d ask me to help him out while he was making the transition. I did what I could to help him. He worked very hard and adapted quickly. We became close friends.

At one time, we decided to start a business together, just to break up the steady diet of drawing comics. We came up with the idea of doing personalized caricatures on the backs of playing cards. If not a caricature, then a drawing of their dog or cat or house... whatever they wanted. We rented an office opposite Bloomingdale’s department store. I had a friend who loaned us a small printing press and found a printer to run the press for us.

We bought cards with blank backs, but we had problems printing them because the cards were so heavily coated with wax that they wouldn’t absorb the ink, and the cards would smear. Hal and I bought a conveyor belt and heat lamps and played around with solving our problem. It took weeks to figure it out, but we finally did it. But we had other problems with the process, not to mention that we didn’t have the money to advertise our product.

I went to some of the leading magazines, who had sections about interesting new products. Several major magazines wrote articles about us, so we got free publicity, and the orders started to pour in. I also made displays for stores like Saks Fifth Avenue to take orders for our cards.

(Top:) Two Golden Age pioneers! Hal Sherman (on right) and Harry Lampert, original artist of “The Flash,” at Joe Petrilak’s White Plains convention in June 2000. Photo by David Siegel.

(Right:) A pair of panels from Sherman’s “Star-Spangled Kid” story in Star Spangled Comics #8. Script by Jerry Siegel. [©2004 DC Comics.]

But we were a victim of our own success, because all we had was a small printing press and a part-time printer. We couldn’t keep up with

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

the orders and produce enough cards to make it pay off, so we had to quit.

is a fair arrangement.” I called the editor to tell him, but he said, “No, that’s it. Forget it.” In effect, I was fired before I was hired.

JA: Oh, well! Getting back to comics, Bill Finger started writing “Wildcat” at some point, and Irwin Hasen drew it. Did you know Irwin?

A few days later, Irwin Hasen stopped by to see me, so apparently I knew him before this. He said, “Guess what? The Post called me and asked me to do The Goldbergs. I know you were working on it, and I want to find out if it’s okay for me to take it.” I told him what happened to me, and I didn’t mind if he did it, but to be careful. It was very nice of Irwin to come and talk to me about it. We’ve been the closest of friends for over sixty years. I don’t believe it was ever syndicated, but Irwin did the strip for several years.

ROBINSON: Not at that time. He did “Wildcat” for Gaines’ AllAmerican line of comics, so he wouldn’t have spent any time at the DC offices. I did meet Irwin later. I was called in by the editor of the New York Post to do a new strip to be distributed by the Hall Syndicate.

At that time, one of the most popular shows on radio and, later, on television, was The Goldbergs. Gertrude Berg, the creator of the series, played the main character, Molly Goldberg, modeled after herself. She wanted to adapt it for a newspaper strip. The editor asked me to draw up some samples, which I did. I had a couple of meetings with Gertrude Berg at her lavish apartment. She wanted Molly in the strip to look like her. The editor of the Post did not want it to look like her. I had to draw the character so it’d look enough like Gertrude to suit her, and different enough to satisfy the Post editor. A dilemma!

JA: This reminds me of something Charlie Paris told me, so I’ll ask you about it. When DC launched the Batman newspaper strip in the mid-1940s, weren’t you asked to draw it?

I finally managed to come up with a character that satisfied both parties. The style I chose was different from what I’d done in comics, so it’d have been a nice change of pace for me. When it came to contract time, I asked a few friends for advice. They told me I should get 50% of the syndication revenue, which was the standard. The Post was going to pay me a salary, but at negotiation time, I was told I wouldn’t get any of the syndication money, and they’d own all the rights. I said, “Well, I don’t think that’s fair. I’ll have to think about it.”

JA: Not to mention the fact that your name would not have been on the newspaper strip.

They said, “Well, you go think about it, you Communist!” I was so taken aback by this, I didn’t know how to respond. I was eighteen at the time and barely knew what a Communist was. I called my folks and explained the situation. They said, “Tell them you think the standard deal

ROBINSON: Yes, I was, but I didn’t want to do it for a couple of reasons. Bob Kane wanted to do it, and I’d have to be working with Bob, either penciling or inking or both. I had already done that. What was more attractive to me was that I was offered to do more of the comic book.

ROBINSON: Right.

JA: Charlie told me that, before he accepted the inking job over Bob Kane’s work, he spoke to you to see if you’d have a problem with him doing that.

ROBINSON: I don’t remember that, but it sounds reasonable. I assume I told him I wouldn’t care.

JA: That’s exactly what Charlie told me. He said that if it had bothered you, he wouldn’t have inked the strip.

ROBINSON: That sounds like Charlie. He was a very decent man. I’m glad I didn’t do the strip. It would have been a dead end. A newspaper strip was something all of us wanted to do, but this wasn’t the right vehicle for me.

JA: At some point, you started doing the “Adventures of Alfred” backups [about Bruce Wayne’s butler]. Whose idea was it to do that?

ROBINSON: I think it came from one of the editors, or maybe Bill Finger suggested it.

JA: I ask about this because it seems odd to me that you were doing covers and main stories, and here you are doing a backup.

Irwin Hasen today—and one of his dailies from the short-lived Goldbergs strip, circa 1950. Thanks to Bob Bailey for the photo, and to Dan Makara for the daily. Oddly, as Dan notes, “It’s about a Jewish family in a time when Jews were not allowed in a lot of places. The strip has no ethnic qualities—it could have been named The Smiths.” The earlier radio and subsequent TV series, we seem to recall, had far more of an ethnic quality—as does at least some of the dialogue below.

[Comic strip ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

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JA: I have you listed as doing the “Target” feature for Novelty’s Target Comics, along with Bob Wood, in 1940. Does that sound familiar?

ROBINSON: Vaguely. I remember the name but I’d have to see the work to be sure that’s true. I knew Bob Wood very well and we worked together on other things, so it’s possible I did a story or two. One of the things I did for Quality was “The Sniper.” Did you know about that?

JA: Yes. I also have you listed as doing “X of the Underground” and “Dear Nancy Parker.”

ROBINSON: I don’t remember “X of the Underground,” and I’m pretty sure “Dear Nancy Parker” was for Timely. I really didn’t do much of anything for Quality.

“Charlie Biro and Bob Wood Were the Editors…”

JA: You briefly talked about “London,” but I’d like to hear more about your work for Lev Gleason Publications.

This Robinson “Alfred” splash from Batman #31 (Oct.-Nov. 1945) appeared in Les Daniels’ encyclopedic Batman: The Complete History in 1999, as well as in the 2004 trade paperback Batman in the Forties. But Jerry did several others! [©2004 DC Comics.]

ROBINSON: I did it just to earn a little more money. The stories were short, so it didn’t eat up a lot of my time. But I really didn’t care much for the feature. I found Alfred to be a very boring character, and he wasn’t very interesting visually, either.

JA: Of course, you know he was originally drawn as a fat man, and then they slimmed him up.

ROBINSON: As you know, Charlie Biro and Bob Wood were the editors there, as well as the artists and writers. They were good friends and I met them at MLJ. Charlie asked me to do a few Daredevil stories when he was tight on deadlines. I believe I drew two on my own and helped Charlie on a couple of others. Bob and I double-dated a few times, as I did with Charlie.

I was riding with Biro and Bob Wood in a convertible one time.

While we were driving, Charlie spotted this beautiful woman walking into an apartment building. He pulled over, and disappeared in the doorway. About ten minutes later, he came back, grinning from ear to ear, and said, “I’ve got a date with her tonight.” That was Charlie!

Incredible!

ROBINSON: Yes, I do, but I don’t think I ever drew him fat. By the time I got to him, he had gone on a diet.

JA: You started moonlighting in 1941. Why didn’t you bother going to the Gaines side of DC? ROBINSON: I don’t know. I guess it was because I didn’t have to. I got work at other places, and between that and “Batman,” I was as busy as I could be. Most of the outside freelance jobs luckily came to me, so I didn’t have to pound the pavement for work.

JA: Did anyone at DC say anything to you about your outside work?

ROBINSON: Nothing was ever said to me about it at DC. I don’t think they read the other books.

House ads in late-1940s issues of Lev Gleason comics credited Charles Biro and Bob Wood, even as they plugged their three biggest titles (though by then Crime Does Not Pay had become their runaway bestseller). Biro still drew the covers alone— or at least he signed them alone. CDNP #75 was cover-dated May 1949. Comic supplied

by Jim Amash. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

These panels from a reputedly Bob Wood-drawn “Target and the Targeteers” story in Target Comics, Vol. 2, #5 (July 1941), contain good-natured digs at Jerry Robinson and (twice) George Roussos. In case the first is too small to read, that central sub-head reads: “JERRY ROBINSON, FAMOUS ETCHER, FINISHES FIRST JOB IN 3 YEARS.” “INKY ROUSSOS” in the final panel refers to George’s nickname, earned because of all the black ink he employed in his embellishing. Thanks to Eric Schumacher for sending us this art and info. But—is it possible that Jerry and George had a hand in drawing this Bob Kane-like story, as well? [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Bob was the first of the Wood brothers to work in comics. The family had lived in Boston. Bob was the oldest, Dick was the middle brother, and Dave was the youngest. We all became very good friends, though I was closest to Dick, since he was more my age.

got married, though the marriage was short-lived. She was also a Conover model and cover girl for Harper’s Bazaar, Vogue, etc. While we were together, the four of us became a team. When Dick started to get wilder, as Bob did, it became a difficult time for everyone.

Biro was a big, florid-complected, hearty guy who only drank socially. He was very talented, and loved comics. I’m surprised that Biro didn’t do more with his talent, because he always struck me as a “Stan Lee” type of character, but it never materialized. Although he did some very creative and ground-breaking work. He eventually left the comic book business and went into television art. Bob turned out to be an alcoholic, which proved to be his downfall.

JA: Alcoholism is generally considered to be genetic.

JA: Were you aware of his alcoholism that early?

ROBINSON: Oh, yeah. In short order. Bob was an interesting artist as well as a writer. He had quite a flair, and it was his personal demons that kept him from rising higher. Dick came to New York before Dave did.

Bernie and I tried to keep Dick away from Bob. We were afraid Dick would adopt Bob’s lifestyle. Bob eventually murdered a woman.

JA: Did you know Bob when that happened?

ROBINSON: Yes. Our efforts to keep Bob and Dick apart didn’t work, and Dick started to drink. Then, young Davey came into town, and again we tried to keep him away from Bob, as we tried to do with Dick.

We didn’t want to fail this time, but we did, and Dave went down the same road as did his brothers.

They were all talented writers. But it’s hard to tell their potential because they got so messed up. There was a strong connection with Dick and me. He had a girlfriend named Jeanie Conrad, who was a model for the Conover Agency. She was gorgeous! I think I was in love with her.

The three of us would spend evenings together, talk of art and books, going to dinner or playing cards, and I always delighted in making Jeanie laugh. I could be quite funny in those days. [laughs] Every time I said something funny, she’d laugh and hug Dick. I thought, one of these times she’d hug me instead of Dick. It was very frustrating. There were times I was sick and she’d nurse me. As much as I adored her, she was really just a good friend. One day, she told me about her sister, who had just graduated from a college out west, and was coming to New York. Her name was Ruth.

I thought to myself, “If she’s anything like you, I’m going to love her.” Sure enough, she did come to town and we dated, fell in love, and

ROBINSON: We suspected it was a family trait. Their mother was a very lovely woman. I remember going out to Westchester with Dick and Dave to see her on several occasions. I never met their father or recall if he was even living at the time.

JA: What was your reaction when you heard Bob Wood killed his girlfriend?

ROBINSON: I was absolutely astounded. I picked up the newspaper one day, and the Daily News ran a full, front-page picture of Bob being arrested, looking wild-eyed. It didn’t look real to me. It was like one of those phony newspapers you see in old movies.

I had seen him under those circumstances before. I remember going to his apartment one day, which was over a store on Lexington Avenue in the 60s. It was a walk-up, and as I was about to go up the narrow stairway, Bob appeared at the top of the stairs, wild-eyed and looking disoriented. He had a girl with him, and he threw her down the stairs, and she landed right in front of me. So he was capable of doing these things when he was drunk.

JA: Alex Kotzky told me that Bob Wood would beat his girlfriends, which is something I can’t imagine doing.

ROBINSON: Neither would Bob Wood, unless he was drunk. I don’t think he was ever on drugs—just alcohol.

JA: Did you ever see Bob Wood after he got out of jail?

ROBINSON: No, I never did. I lost track of him. I only heard about him when he died. He was coming home drunk one night and was hit by a car.

JA: Did you keep in touch with Dick and Dave Wood?

ROBINSON: Very seldom. They moved to Florida and became writing partners. We lost track of each other. I did hear that both Dick and Dave passed away some time ago.

JA: Dick and Dave wrote some “Batman” stories, didn’t they?

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age ROBINSON: Not for me. If they did, it was done later on.

JA: I know that Bob Wood was a writer, but Charlie Biro’s name is the only writer’s name I ever saw on the Lev Gleason books.

ROBINSON: Bob did write. Bob wrote and drew “The Claw,” and of course, Charlie wrote Daredevil, Crime Does Not Pay, and a bunch of other books for Lev Gleason.

JA: Do you know if Crime Does Not Pay was Biro’s idea or Wood’s?

ROBINSON: I think it was Charlie’s idea. Charlie created most of those titles, though Bob probably had his hand in them. They were a team.

JA: Did they own any part of Lev Gleason’s company?

ROBINSON: I don’t think so.

“I Decided to Do Something on the War, So I Created ‘London’” JA: Tell me how you created “London.” This is the first feature you wrote, isn’t it?

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ROBINSON: Under my own name, certainly. I think I was still attending Columbia at the time. One day, on a Friday, Charlie called and said, “We have the opportunity to create our own book.” This was during the war. He said, “But we have to have it completed by Monday.”

He had a place where we could work and wanted to get a group together. We gathered a team. Charlie got Bob and Dick Wood; I got George Roussos and Bernie Klein.

Daredevil was the only character we had use of, and Charlie was going to do that. During the war, there were paper shortages, and the only way you could publish was to get paper, based on previous usage, but it had to be used up by a certain time, or they’d lose it. I tried that once, but couldn’t do it. Gleason had a quota for an issue.

Each of us had to come up with a character of our own. I did “London,” Bernie did “Whirlwind,” and George did “Nightro.” There may have been another feature, too. Bob wrote “Nightro,” and helped Bernie write “Whirlwind.” I wrote “London.”

This was 1941, during the Blitz in London.

Everyone wondered if England could hold out against the Nazis. I was always a political animal and I decided to do something on the war, so I created “London.” He wasn’t a super-hero. He wore a mask and a cape, and was a dashing Englishman. The character was torn from the newspaper headlines of the day. I wanted to do something meaningful, a story that reflected the death struggle against Hitler’s Germany.

I realized, when I saw the book in print, how overly-written the story was. Some panels have so much dialogue, that there’s hardly room for the art. I was absorbed with the writing as much as the art, some of which was pretty good, particularly the splash page. “London” epitomized the courage of the people under the German Blitz.

JA: How much of the script did you write before you started drawing?

ROBINSON: I wrote the entire script first, or at least a fair portion of it. We were so rushed to get it out that I could have done some of the writing as I drew it. I also lettered the story. We all worked day and night and did the entire book from scratch over the weekend. It was an exciting challenge.

JA: You did “London” for about a year. Why did you quit doing it?

ROBINSON: I don’t think any of us stayed on our features, except for Biro on Daredevil.

Another powerful “London” splash by Jerry Robinson—plus a single panel—both from Daredevil #8 (March 1942). Thanks to Eric Schumacher. See two more “London” splashes on p. 17. Note the early use of the term “super-villain”! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: Since you were able to get some of your original art back from DC, did you try to get some back from Biro and Wood?

ROBINSON: I did get the splash from my first “London” story. I

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

could’ve gotten more had I asked.

JA: Did anyone else besides you write or letter “London”?

ROBINSON: There was one instance where I asked Don Cameron to help on a story, which I told you about earlier. I didn’t always letter it, as I recall.

Sometime in the ’60s or the early 1970s, a Brazilian professor and comics historian came to my studio for an interview. He told me that “London” was historic—the first comic book feature that was written, drawn, and published during the events that it portrayed. Because we had to create that book in such a short time, it was on the stands a week to ten days from when we turned it in.

“I Was Just Tired of Doing the Same Old Thing” JA: You did The Green Hornet for Harvey Publications in 1945 and ’46. How did that come about?

ROBINSON: I don’t remember whether it was Leon or Al Harvey who contacted me. The idea was appealing, so I asked George Roussos to help me. I penciled and we both inked it, but George did most of the backgrounds. I inked the main characters and did the covers myself. We did it for a while, but at some point I started doing the complete art job.

We signed it “Rejeog,” which is an anagram of the first three letters of our first names, spelled backwards. We did this because it was a major book for DC’s competitor, and we didn’t want to upset DC. I may have done some writing on the comic, but I really don’t remember for sure now.

Jerry’s splash for the “Boy Champions” story in Crossen/Spark’s Green Lama #3 (March 1945). Mac Raboy and George Roussos had goodlooking stories in the issue, too! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

The Harveys were friendly and easy to work with. They were happy to have us because of the Batman connection. Then King Features called and offered me a Green Hornet newspaper strip. We agreed on a contract, but I had to be approved by George W. Trendle, the owner of The Green Hornet. He also owned The Lone Ranger. Both characters originated on WXYZ, a Detroit radio station he owned.

Trendle came to town and was staying at the Plaza Hotel. I showed him my work, which he liked. I knew this was going to be a lot of work and take all my time for the next year or more, so I decided to take some time off. I was on vacation when I got a telegram from King Features, to come in for a meeting. I found out that the editor I had signed with had died. Now, William Randolph Hearst approved everything that had to do with the comics in his papers, and he O.K.’d my doing the Green Hornet.

When the new editor took over, he flew to San Simeon to meet with Hearst. The new editor decided not to go with the strip.

A dramatic Mort Meskin “Vigilante” splash from Action Comics #97 (June 1946), before he and Jerry Robinson decided to team up on that and other features.

At least we think that’s the issue number of our coverless copy. Thanks to Peter & Philip Meskin for the photo of their father. [©2004 DC Comics.]

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

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The Hornet Always Stings Thrice! (Clockwise from top left:) (a) A Robinson-drawn splash for a story in Green Hornet #21 (Nov. 1944); thanks to Bob Cherry. (b) The cover of Green Hornet #25 (May 1945), repro’d from a photocopy of the logo-less original art sent by J.R. himself. (c) From Roy Thomas’ own collection comes this page of original art from—well, frankly, he’s not certain what issue of Green Hornet it appeared in; but the splash, which Ye Editor also owns, is signed “Rejeog,” which Jerry says is the way he and George Roussos signed some stories on which they worked together. The splash of “The Mummy Murders!” was printed in Alter Ego V3#5, where it was attributed to George alone. But that panel 2 sure looks like some Air Wave figures in tales drawn by Roussos! Yet maybe the whole thing harks back to his and Jerry’s joint experience on “Batman”! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part I

Atoman was a beautifully-designed Jerry Robinson super-hero who, alas, only lasted two issues due to Spark’s collapse. (Above:) The cover of Atoman #1—and the finale of the 15-pp.

“Atoman” story in that issue. (Below:) The cover of issue #2—and a fabulous page from that issue’s lead tale, with multiple images of Atoman in action to compete with the work that Jerry’s pal Mort Meskin was doing at this time on “Johnny Quick” in DC’s Adventure Comics.

Two generous collectors sent us scans of all “Atoman” art from both issues—Mike Catron from #1, Chris Brown from #2—so we can safely predict that you’ll be seeing other pages from these two comics in the days to come! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Building “Batman”–-–and Other True Legends of the Golden Age

37

Jerry at his Cape Cod, Massachusetts, studio in the 1970s—and the cover of his own copy of Batman #10 (April-May 1942). We wanted to sneak in one more image of J.R.’s rendition of the Dynamic Duo before we move on to his later comics and non-comics work…! [Batman art ©2004 DC Comics.]

I had signed a contract and could have sued them, but I didn’t know about things like that back then. They just said, “We’re sorry about this, but we owe you one.” I had given up all my other jobs, but was able to get them all back.

JA: 1946 was about the time you broke away from the DC bullpen.

You started doing “Vigilante” with Mort Meskin in ‘47.

ROBINSON: That was when Mort and I opened up our studio. Mort was still doing “Vigilante” and “Johnny Quick,” so he brought those accounts with him. We started doing the Black Terror and Fighting Yank [for Standard/Nedor], as well as a couple of other features. That’s when we started signing the work “Robinson/Meskin.” We did all phases of the art together. Mort would rough-pencil out some stories—I would rough out some stories—and we both did inking.

JA: You did Atoman and “Boy Champions” for Ken Crossen’s Spark Publications, starting in 1946. He seems to have been a real entrepreneur: he published comics and pulps, and did radio (bringing The Green Lama to the CBS network in 1949) and TV, in addition to other enterprises. I’d like to know more about him.

ROBINSON: He was probably in his 30s at the time. His girlfriend was also his editor. Ken was a very bright guy, a good editor, and quite creative. I don’t remember how Mort and I came to work for him, but either he called us or someone recommended that we call him. Right after I did Atoman, Mort did Golden Lad for Ken. Ken got me because he doubled my price. It was the first time I got $100 a page. I would

have continued with him, but he went out of business! I think his problem was distribution. I was in Florida when this happened, so I don’t know what his money problems were. But he could have been a force in the comic book business, had he continued. He attracted top talent, like Mac Raboy, and paid well. All his books looked good.

JA: Before we get too far into talking about Mort Meskin, tell me why you stopped doing “Batman.”

ROBINSON: Basically, I was just tired of doing the same thing, and not being able to sign it, either. In fact, I probably signed Bob’s name more than he did. [laughs] I also began to get other offers, where I could do my own thing. That was the main reason.

In all the things I’ve done, I’ve found the most creative part is done in the first couple of years. After that, it’s important to keep the work fresh by introducing new characters, and other ways, too. There’s nothing like the initial creative burst of passion in starting up something new. In regard to “Batman,” I’d have continued to do the same thing over and over again for the rest of my life, and I didn’t want to do that. I’m always amazed at artists like Milton Caniff and [Charles] “Sparky” Schulz, who did the same strip for years and years. They were geniuses and it’s a “tour de force” accomplishment, but I always wanted to try different things.

[Part 2 of this epoch-making Robinson interview continues on our flip side, where Jerry talks about his later comic book work, his newspaper comics strips and commercial art work.]

ATTENTION: FRANK BRUNNER ART FANS! Previously Unpublished Art ©2004 Frank Brunner

Frank is now accepting art commissions for covers, splash panels, or pin-up re-creations!

Also, your ideas for NEW art are welcome!

Art can be pencils only, inked or full-color (painted) creation!

Contact Frank directly for details and prices.

(Minimum order: $150) Write now (be sure to include a self-addressed stamped envelope!) and receive FREE with my reply an autographed Brunner “Star Wars Galaxy” trading card!

Contact the artist at his NEW address:

FRANK BRUNNER

312 Kildare Court Myrtle Beach, SC 29588 Visit my NEW website at: http://www.frankbrunner.net

BACK ISSUE OF THE ISSUE! Dick Sprang was another of the quintessential “Batman” artists of the Golden Age! See articles about and interviews with this Dark Knight giant in A/E #19, behind a never-before-printed Sprang cover. Plus more about Jerry Robinson, Charles Paris, and World’s Finest cover artist Fred Ray! Holy fanzines, Robin—order today from TwoMorrows’ ad bloc in this very issue!

$200,000 PAID FOR ORIGINAL COMIC ART! COLLECTOR PAYING TOP DOLLAR FOR “ANY AND ALL” ORIGINAL COMIC BOOK AND COMIC STRIP ARTWORK FROM THE 1930S TO PRESENT! COVERS, PINUPS, PAGES, IT DOESN’T MATTER! 1 PAGE OR ENTIRE COLLECTIONS SOUGHT! CALL OR EMAIL ME ANYTIME!

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[EC art on this page ©2004 William M. Gaines Agent.]

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40

My World: The AL FELDSTEIN Interview Part II Conducted & Transcribed by Michael T. Gilbert Wood’s art. However, this was the first time I heard it suggested that you’d considered placing yourself in the last panel. Presumably the punchline would have been changed to: “My world is the world of science-fiction... for I am a science-fiction writer. My name is FELDSTEIN.” On the surface, it certainly makes just as much sense for you to spotlight the writer as the artist—inasmuch as you created the words that inspired Wood’s pictures. Can you tell us a little more about that decision?

Al Feldstein (left) and Wally Wood in the early-1950s heyday of EC, as seen in the pages of its comics. [©2004 William M. Gaines Agent.]

Al Feldstein is truly an original in the comic field. He started out illustrating stories for Fiction House and other comic publishers in the ’40s. In 1948 he began working for Bill Gaines’ Entertaining Comics group (EC), where his abilities as a writer and editor helped turn a failing company into one of the great success stories of the ’50s.

AL FELDSTEIN: “My World” was a spontaneous story, written on a day when Bill Gaines was not feeling well and we hadn’t plotted anything for that day’s assignment. So I went off to improvise something.

Since Wally Wood was “up” (the artist due for the next story I’d write, as per our schedule), I got the idea of just doing a showcase script

Feldstein repeated his success when Mad-founder Harvey Kurtzman quit Mad magazine in 1956. Gaines briefly considered canceling the magazine, then asked Feldstein to take over as Mad’s new editor. Gaines’ decision proved to be a wise one. Under Feldstein’s 29-year editorial reign, Mad became a sales phenomenon and a beloved cultural icon.

Two issues ago, Al discussed his early career and his emotional meeting with Ray Bradbury at the 2002 San Diego Comic-Con. In this concluding chapter, Feldstein talks about EC artist Wally Wood and “My World,” their most famous story together. We’ll also learn what Al’s been up to recently.

The following e-mail interview took place between August 7 and October 18, 2002.

Whose World?

MICHAEL T. GILBERT: A couple of years ago, I wrote an overview of Wally Wood’s career for Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #8. At one point I referred to your “My World” script as “Feldstein’s ... love letter to Wood.” One reader wrote and suggested that wasn’t quite accurate and sent me a scan of the printed comic, autographed by you to him.

On the “My World” splash page you inscribed: “With deference to the artist, actually this is MY compilation of ‘MY WORLD.’ —Al Feldstein.”

For those unfamiliar with the story, “My World” featured a number of seemingly unrelated sci-fi images, leading to the punchline wherein the story’s artist, Wally Wood, tells the reader: “My world is the world of science-fiction... for I am a science-fiction artist. My name is WOOD.” It’s commonly believed that you wrote this story to showcase Wally

The splash page of “My World” from Weird Science #22 (Nov.-Dec. 1953): script by Al Feldstein, art by Wally Wood. Repro’d from those fabulous hardcover reprint volumes published by Russ Cochran. [©2004 William M. Gaines Agent.]

My World: The Al Feldstein Interview–-–Part II of sci-fi scenes and story highlights. It was unplanned and unplotted, and I intended it to be a flowery homage to sci-fi.

When I got to the end of the story, I was faced with a dilemma. Do I write: “This is my world...for I am a science-fiction—- writer”???—and take the credit for painting all those word-pictures and scene-situations I’d just written about for Wally to illustrate?

Or do I write: “This is my world... for I am a science-fiction artist”?—thereby acknowledging Wally as the illustrator... and giving up my claim to the entire concept, the loving descriptions, etc., etc.?

I had never originally planned that the story focus on me in particular. It was a calculated decision, arrived at when I reached that last panel.

Of course, I chose the latter alternative...having never before taken written credit for any other stories that I’d written for the line of EC titles under my editorship… ...a policy I have come to regret over the years, because I have never really received the full and proper credit due me for authoring them all.

Such is life.

MTG: It’s unfortunate that your claim to the story has been overlooked— though it’s understandable. You designed the story so Wood had a large signature in the final panel, but you didn’t give yourself a writing credit.

FELDSTEIN: It was only in later years that I regretted it... because “My World” came to be known as Wally Wood’s tribute to sci-fi/fantasy...and I was somehow left out of the loop.

MTG: It showed remarkable creative generosity. Somehow I can’t imagine Stan Lee doing a similar story with Jack Kirby in the ’60s–– and Stan writing himself out of the final panel.

41

watched as my important contribution to the success of EC was severely downplayed. Until, I felt, it had become intolerable... and I decided to do something about it.

So...yes, my feelings about proper credit have changed over the decades.

Mainly, it’s time I claimed what is rightfully mine!

Wood’s World!

MTG: While I’m on the subject, have you ever read “My Word,” the 3-page story Woody did for Big Apple Comix in 1973? Wood wrote it as a rather bitter parody of “My World,” and I was wondering what you thought of it. Were you at all offended by this version of your story?

FELDSTEIN: In 1973, I was totally involved in Mad magazine and my editorship of that publication... and I was no longer following what was being done in the comic book industry... either by other publishers... or by other artists not associated with Mad. As far as I was concerned, the industry… operating under the Code... was dead!

I believe that Wally was no longer working for me (for a variety of reasons) when he did the piece and, without seeing it... if, as you say, it was a “bitter parody”... I would have to chalk it up to deep-seated anger or resentment or revenge. Or a combination of all three. If you would care to send me a copy of “My Word,” I’d be happy to give you my thoughts on it.

[NOTE: After Feldstein was sent a copy of Wood’s story from Big Apple Comix, he responded as follows:]

FELDSTEIN: I have no comment about the piece. It was written and drawn by a very angry, frustrated, and disillusioned fading talent. And I really We printed the final panels of both “My World” and “My Word” don’t think that it could properly be FELDSTEIN: No comment. back in our Wally Wood issue, Alter Ego V3#8—but here’s the called a “version” of “My World.” It latter again, courtesy of Big Apple Comix publisher Flo Steinberg, bore no resemblance to it, even as a MTG: I think you were right to use the and still with Wally’s scatological reference blacked out. “parody”! It severely lacked the love artist in the final panel, since comics [©2004 Estate of Wally Wood.] and the reverence of the sci-fi/fantasy are such a visual medium. But it must genre that I injected into the original piece. be frustrating to see it become someone else’s signature piece. I think it says a lot about your relative lack of ego.

MTG: There has been some discussion about Wood’s abrupt departure from Mad in 1964, after appearing in every issue since the first in FELDSTEIN: On the contrary, it says a lot about my relatively suffi1952. A number of people have voiced conflicting opinions about the cient ego... and the fact that I wasn’t in dire need of inflating it. breakup. I’d like to get your side of the split.

My attitude at the time was: I am a professional. I am doing this for a The story has it that you rejected a comic-strip parody that Wood living to feed my family and pay my bills. So compensate me accordillustrated—and when you requested changes, he blew up and quit. ingly. And the hell with any accolades!

Some have suggested that Wood’s art on that final rejected job was MTG: And yet that “hell with any accolades” attitude doesn’t quite simply substandard. Interestingly, years later, Wood himself looked at jibe with your more recent comments about “My World”—and your his art again and came to the same conclusion. He felt it was terrible understandable disappointment that it’s generally considered a “Wood work. story.” Have your views concerning the importance of getting credit FELDSTEIN: He was right. But that wasn’t the one and only reason. changed over the decades? I also apply this question to your long and successful career editing Mad, which many have taken for granted.

I had finally had enough of Wally’s growing alcohol problems, his repeated failures to meet his deadlines, and the deteriorating quality of FELDSTEIN: I really think that I have answered your question previhis artwork... not to mention his aggressive and hostile attitude. ously, Michael. Over the years after my retirement, for a while I stood silently by as I was deliberately written out of the history of Mad, and I

42

Comic Crypt

He had made it impossible for me as an editor to rely on him and depend upon him to supply me with the professional product that Mad demanded.... ...and so I let him go.

MTG: Which leads me to ask: Did Bill Gaines ever pressure you to rehire Wood?

FELDSTEIN: Bill never pressured me to hire or fire anyone. I was fortunate to be almost totally autonomous in my editing of Mad magazine.

MTG: It’s also been suggested that there was some friction between Wood and Mad even before that. There’s a story about a disastrous 1963 Virgin Islands trip with the Mad staff where Wood allegedly went on a bender and was arrested twice. Is this true? If so, did it in any way contribute to Wood’s departure from Mad? FELDSTEIN: The story is true... but it was just one example of the many incidents and reasons that contributed to the departure of Wally from Mad. MTG: Wood never worked for Mad again after 1964—except for illustrating a 2-page strip in 1971. Do you recall how this single exception occurred? It seems odd considering the ill feelings you and Wood both shared.

FELDSTEIN: Kindly advise me as to the issue of Mad and the title of the article. I was unaware of Wally returning to Mad. But then, my memory chips are burning out fast.

MTG: The issue was Mad #143, June 1971. The 2-page article “Altar Ego” concerned a rich Catholic priest in a slum neighborhood, who “strong-armed” his poor parish members to contribute more money to support his upscale lifestyle.

FELDSTEIN: I looked up the article and I am at a total loss as to how to explain its appearance in Mad seven years after I fired Wally. No other articles by Wally followed it.

Beats me.

MTG: Let’s get back to the issue of credit. In the early 1950s, your scripts, art, and editing set the tone for the entire EC comic book line—and from 1956 to 1984, you edited every issue of Mad magazine. That 29-year run transformed Mad from cult popularity to one of publishing’s great success stories. But for all that, it can be argued that your contributions to the comic field have been taken for granted.

Several EC superstars including Bill Gaines, Harvey Kurtzman, Wally Wood, Al Williamson, and Segio Aragonés have all been inducted into the Will Eisner Hall Of Fame. Yet as of this writing, you haven’t made the cut.

Admittedly, Mad is more a magazine than a comic book. Also, an editor’s work is less likely to be noticed than that of an artist or a writer—particularly when things are running smoothly. Still, your work on Tales from the Crypt and the other EC titles alone certainly qualifies you for inclusion in the Hall Of Fame. Why do you think you’ve been overlooked by your peers?

FELDSTEIN: I have no explanation for my failure to win induction into the Will Eisner Comic Book Hall of Fame. I was nominated several times and was placed among formidable lists of comic book luminaries each time... but I never made it.

MTG: Until recently, you’ve had little interest in attending comic book conventions. Could this have contributed to that omission?

“Altar Ego” art from Mad #143 (June 1971)—Wood’s last page for the parody mag; script by Marylyn Ippolito. Read more about it in Bill Pearson’s biography Against the Grain: Mad Artist Wallace Wood. [©2004 EC Publications, Inc.]

FELDSTEIN: You are right. Throughout my working career and for many years after I retired, I had been reluctant to play the “Convention Game”... and I only started going to a select few in recent years in an attempt to clear up much of the misinformation that had been circulating, to set the record straight as to my exact contributions to EC and to Mad’s success, and to enjoy meeting with the collectors and fans who were asking the right questions and doing their research. If that lack of convention attendance and its inherent socializing over the years has hurt me... I cannot say.

MTG: And finally, what would it mean to you to be inducted into the Comic Book Hall Of Fame?

FELDSTEIN: At this point in time, I have no hope of being inducted, so the question is moot. The voting process is limited to current participating artist and writer members of the industry, to dealers, and to publishers.

They obviously do not know me that well, or they do not feel that I warrant the honor of induction over the nominees that they are familiar with. And I doubt if I will be nominated again.

My only chance now, like Charlie Biro and others, is to be inducted by special dispensation after I’ve died.

And I sure in hell ain’t gonna get any satisfaction out of that!

My World: The Al Feldstein Interview–-–Part II

Life in Paradise!

And it was aptly named.

Paradise Valley lies between the AbsarokaBeartooth Wilderness Mountain Range and the Galatin Mountain Range. The Yellowstone River flows through it, and, for one and a quarter fantastic fly-fishing miles, borders our ranch. After we bought the Montana place, I added my life-long dream...my own art studio.

MTG: I was surprised to discover that you’ve become a rancher since retiring from Mad. It’s an unexpected choice, considering the sedentary nature of comics (especially for a guy who started out as a New York tenderfoot!). Could you describe your ranch and tell us why you decided to become a rancher? Perhaps you could describe a day in the life of “Farmer Al”? What kind of chores do you do? How long do they take, and how much time is left for your painting?

Today my wife Michelle rescues unwanted and neglected animals... and I paint and do ranch chores (like mending fences, moving irrigation dams, and mowing our lawns). We have 37 equines, including 5 miniature horses, 2 ponies, 30 quarter horses, Arabs, appaloosas, etc. ... 14 llamas ... 30 cats ... 3 dogs ... and a coop full of chickens.

FELDSTEIN: When I retired from Mad at the end of 1984, I sold my New York City coop apartment and my weekend house on Candlewood Lake, CT, and bought a 12-acre place in Roxbury, CT. I thought, at the time, that 12 acres was the cat’s meow!

When my wife died of lung cancer in 1986, there I was... 80 miles from New York City... living alone in our Roxbury house. After a while, I thought it was time to start dating again. But how to meet someone?

Surf the local bars? I’m not the type!

43

The Feldsteins and two of their less camera-shy llamas, on their ranch in Montana. Thanks to Al & Michelle.

I do most of my painting in the late fall, winter, and early spring months. Summers are for fly-fishing and outdoor activities (including ranch chores). Despite the sedentary nature of comics, I have always been an active person.

MTG: Is your wife a full-time rancher too, or does she have another job?

At first, I was answering “Personals” ads placed by ladies in New York Magazine... and traveling down to the City several times a week. And then, the real estate broker who’d sold me the Roxbury House fixed me up with a blind date... Michelle.

FELDSTEIN: Michelle devotes all of her time to our ranch animals (including me!), their care and their upkeep (read: she shovels a lot of manure!).

MTG: Any children from any of your marriages?

We hit it off almost immediately and, among other things, she taught me to downhill ski... when I was 62! (She incidentally, is 19 years younger than I!) In the winter of ‘89, we decided to try the wide, powder-packed slopes of the West... and traveled out to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, for that purpose. Three days later... after we’d enjoyed the slopes of the Tetons... we bought a house there. It was a large log house being constructed, and was in the “shell” stage, so we had the chance to alter the interior plans to suit our needs.

Al Feldstein entertains an unexpected visitor to the Mad offices some years back. Courtesy of A.F.

FELDSTEIN: I had three daughters from my first marriage to Claire (19441967): Leslie, Susan, and Jamie. (Susan died of Hotchkins Disease contracted when she was 18... at 23. The marriage ended in divorce.

I had two stepsons with my second marriage to Lee (1967-1986): Alan and Mark. Lee died of cancer.

I have a stepdaughter with my third marriage to Michelle (1989– ): Katrina. I have a total of seven grandchildren.

MTG: As an aside, I saw a reproduction of one of your recent western paintings in the new Squa Tront. It’s very impressive. What happened to all that patented Feldstein stiffness?

And it made sense. Michelle had been living with me in my late wife’s home in Roxbury... and here was our chance to start out fresh with her very own home.

Shortly after we moved in, in August of 1989, we were married in that house.

And three years after that, in 1991, we escaped from Jackson, totally disillusioned with the place (except for the spectacular scenery, the great skiing, and the wonderful wild life) and found a 276acre ranch 14 miles south of Livingston and 38 miles north of Yellowstone National Park in a place called Paradise Valley, Montana.

One of Al’s most recent western paintings, “Trotting in Paradise.” And if you ever get a chance to see his “show-andtell” demonstration live at a comicon, don’t pass it up! [©2004 Al Feldstein.]

FELDSTEIN: I started out (in Jackson) painting the Tetons and their wildlife, but when I moved to Montana, I became aware of the traditional ranch life (the ranchers and the cowboys: driving cattle, conducting round-ups, branding, etc.) that surrounded me and was fast disappearing... and I resolved to capture it on canvas before it was totally gone.

As for the Feldstein “stiffness”... after

44

Comic Crypt

The above e-mail interview took place between August 7 and October 18, 2002, and was instigated by John Benson, editor of Squa Tront magazine. To learn how to obtain back or current issues of this excellent EC fanzine, log onto www.fantagraphics.com or contact John at 205 W. 80th St. (#2B), New York, NY 10024.

(No phone orders, please.)

We’d like to thank Al Feldstein for generously taking time from his hectic schedule to answer our questions. Since this interview was completed, we’re very happy to report that Al Feldstein was finally inducted into the Will Eisner Hall Of Fame in July 2003, along with his EC collaborators Jack Davis, Will Elder, and John Severin. It was an honor long overdue.

Al’s original cover for Weird Fantasy #11 (Feb. 1952)—and his painted quasire-creation. Al says he’s congenitally unable to simply reconstitute work he’s done before; he always has to alter and update it! [Painting ©2004 Al Feldstein; EC cover ©2004 William M. Gaines Agent.]

almost 30 years of doing very little art, but being exposed to the work of some of America’s greatest artists (at Mad)... I guess I absorbed some of it and learned (Zen-like) from them.

Till next time,

[NOTE: Next issue, Al Feldstein shares his thoughts on EC’s greatest artists!]

All I know is: when I started painting again... I had vastly improved from my EC art days!

You can see some of my current available work at my Online Gallery web site: www.alfeldstein.com.

Missing a Back Issue?

Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

mgilbert00@comcast.net

For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

All characters and art TM & ©2004 the respective owners • Panel cartoons ©2004 Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate

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Vol. 3, No. 39 / August 2004

™

Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

JERRY ROBINSON Part Two

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Covers Artist Jerry Robinson

Covers Color and Layout Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to: Ger Apeldoorn Don Mangus Bob Bailey Herb McGrath Tim Barnes Peter Meskin Allen Bellman Philip Meskin John and Friedel Raymond Miller Benson Jason Millet Bill Black Sheldon Moldoff Jerry K. Boyd Matt Moring Chris Brown Frank Motler Sam Burlockoff Jake Oster Bill Cain Joe Petrilak Mike Catron Seth Powell Bob Cherry Jerry, Gro, Jens, Sidra Cohn & Kris Robinson Chet Cox Steven & Sharon Rowe Dwight Decker Dennis Roy Al & Michelle Feldstein John Schaefer Keif Fromm Eric Schumacher Janet Gilbert David Siegel Dick Giordano Flo Steinberg Stan Goldberg Richard Steinberg Scott Goodell Marc Swayze Ron Goulart Dann Thomas Dennis Hager DeSha Tolar Jennifer T. Michael Uslan Hamerlinck Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Peter Hansen Dr. Michael J. Ron Harris Vassallo David Anthony Kraft Hames Ware Jane D. Leavey Ron Webber Dan Makera Eddy Zeno Joe & Nadia Mannarino

This Issue Is Dedicated to the Memory of

GILL FOX

Contents “You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2

Jerry Robinson talks with Jim Amash about his creative life after Batman.

Gill Fox––“A Cartoonist to the Very End” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 Jim Amash on a comic book pioneer—who was also a friend.

re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #72 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze & the Fawcett/Charlton/Toby Connection.

Jerry Robinson (Part I) & Comic Crypt. . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Our own peerless colorist Tom Ziuko assembled this magnificent montage of Jerry Robinson and some of his greatest post-“Batman” work. (Clockwise, from top left:) Green Hornet—Black Terror (done with Mort Meskin)—Atoman—Still Life—Life with Robinson—and advertising art with a space theme. Actually, Green Hornet and Atoman were covered near the end of Part I on the other side—but what’s a few pages among friends? [Comic book & advertising art ©2004 the respective copyright holders; Still Life & Life with Robinson ©2004 Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate.]

Above: Don’t bother looking for the other half of this splendidly-rendered Joker head by Jerry R. It doesn’t exist—any more than the other half of the Batman face does on our flip-side contents page. Or maybe we should put the two together—and wind up with a comic book character even weirder than Two-Face! [Art ©2004 Jerry Robinson; The Joker TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.

Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada.

FIRST PRINTING.

2

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!” The JERRY ROBINSON Interview – Part Two Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash [continued from flip side—without further ado]

“[Mort Meskin] Was a Tremendous Artist” JA: Getting back to Meskin—what were your early impressions of Mort Meskin personally and professionally?

anything. I’d sit there for an hour, trying to get it right. Mort said, “Once you get it right, you’ll know it.” That was his philosophy. I learned a lot by watching him work. Mort knew how to draw and compose drapery, perspective—he knew everything. He was very influential to all of us, but particularly to me.

ROBINSON: He was a tremendous artist even when he was at MLJ. I got JA: There were times when to know him, and brought him up to others, like Charlie Paris, Joe DC, because they paid better and had Kubert, and Cliff Young, inked more important features. Whit his pencils. Do you remember Ellsworth immediately put him to how complete Mort’s penciling work on “Johnny Quick” and was when someone else did the Mort Meskin (left) and Jerry Robinson (right), shown in photos closer to “Vigilante,” both of which, I believe, inking? I imagine his pencils were the era they were co-producing beautiful super-hero pages like the above were created by Mort Weisinger. one from a late-1940s issue of Standard/Nedor’s Black Terror. The Meskin somewhat sketchier when he did Meskin was the first artist on these photo is courtesy of his sons Peter & Philip Meskin; Jerry’s photo was his own inking. features. [NOTE: Actually, Chad taken “by noted photographer Rudy de Harak, 1950s.” Jerry says this was Grothkopf drew the “Johnny Quick” ROBINSON: Yes, they were. his “first and last modeling job (probably illustrating effects of heavy origin in More Fun Comics #71 smoking).” We’ve no idea why the logo and some of the lettering are Mort did a lot of the drawing when (Sept. 1941), but Meskin soon took missing from the Terror page—but you’re just interested in the artwork he inked—we both did. Sometimes, over DC’s second speedster—and here, right? [Comic page ©2004 the respective copyright holders.] when we worked as a team, we’d was indeed the original artist of experiment. We’d do a story with “Vigilante,” which was launched in Action Comics #42 pencils so tight, they almost looked like they were inked. Other times, (Nov. ’41). —Roy.] we literally tried to do a story without any pencils. We’d have to clearly Mort was about six years older, very quiet, reserved, and bright—very progressive in his politics. We saw eye-to-eye on most issues. He was the only one in our circle at the time who had studied art. He went to Pratt Institute, one of the best art schools in New York. If I had any trouble with a figure, I’d ask Mort for help. But he wouldn’t tell me anything!

He said, “Work it out.” It was frustrating, but it was best thing he could do. If he’d showed me how to fix it, then I wouldn’t have learned

visualize the scene before drawing it with the brush. Sometimes we actually pulled it off.

We occasionally made copies of the pencils because we liked the certain quality in the pencils that changes when you ink them. I always found it a challenge to make the inks look as good as the pencils. I used to hate it when I saw a job I’d done a few months earlier, because I’d see all the things I could have done differently—better. Improvement in

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

3

ROBINSON: We had a lot of fun together and had a lot in common.

We talked about comics, social issues, and politics. We went to movie theatres—a lot of foreign films, which influenced our storytelling. We went to museums—took some classes together in Greenwich Village. It was a great time to be young in New York. We had enough money to do what we wanted. And there were plenty of girls who fortunately loved cartoonists. I remember he bought one of the early recording machines.

Mort loved to record his singing, as did I. We liked to sing the popular songs—and some Spanish numbers. Mort also loved to dance, and we occasionally went to village dances.

JA: Mort’s son Peter told me that Mort didn’t stutter when he sang.

ROBINSON: That’s true. His stuttering wasn’t constant. It didn’t prevent him from communicating. Maybe he stuttered more when he became nervous. I don’t know what would trigger it. I was happily surprised when Peter told me that Mort didn’t stutter in his last years.

JA: Both you and Mort left your DC staff jobs around 1946. Do you know why he quit DC for a while? I heard it was because certain editors were giving him a hard time.

ROBINSON: That could be part of it. Mort liked to work on his own.

He wasn’t much of a mixer and most of his friends, including me, had left. I don’t think he was that close to anyone else there, and so he

Here’s a real oddity, courtesy of Jerry: a Meskin splash page from a 1942 issue of Lev Gleason Publications’ Boy Comics. “Bombshell, Son of War” appeared in Boy #3-7, and was apparently scripted by Dick Wood—but we’ve no idea who “Michael” is, unless it was an attempt by Meskin at a “secret identity” of his own. Jerry owns the original art of this page, which has been hand-colored. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

your drawing comes from an awareness of your work—from taking a dispassionate look at it, which you can do months later. You’re too close to the work while doing it.

JA: I know Mort was a stutterer, which was probably one of the reasons he was shy.

ROBINSON: I’d agree with that, because it can be inhibiting. But it was a symptom of other problems.

JA: Before we get into that, I’d like you to describe what he was like before his nervous breakdowns.

ROBINSON: We used to go bowling together, as I told you earlier.

When he worked, he was very intent, concentrating and focused on the page. Mort was losing his hair, and there were some long strands on top, and when he was deep in thought, he’d have a brush in one hand and twirl the hair on top on his head with the other. [laughter] We all do things like that. For instance, often I’d be using a pen, and then need a brush, so instead of putting the pen down—a Gillotte 290—I’d put it between my teeth. Then I’d forget about the pen and it would fall and stab me on the hand. I still have a couple of those tattoo marks on my hand.

JA: What kind of roommate was he?

In our extended coverage of Mort Meskin in A/E #24, we ran the splash and other panels of his “Johnny Quick” story “Mayhem in the Meal-O-Mat!” Here’s page 7 of that tale from Adventure Comics #127 (April 1948). The story is unsigned, but may have been done before he and Jerry joined forces on both “JQ” and “Vigilante” at DC. Or did they prefer not to co-sign the “Johnny Quick” stories, although Mort had often signed them previously? [©2004 DC Comics.]

4

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

Sometimes the weed of crime bears better fruit! Here, repro’d from photocopies of the original art, is the splash page art for two Robinson/Meskin “Vigilante” stories from late-1940s issues of Action Comics—and the original pencils for a “Vig” page, to boot!

In each of these, we’ll leave it to the reader to try to figure out where Meskin stops and Robinson begins, or vice versa. Us, we’re too busy ogling! [©2004 DC Comics.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

5

A Black Terror splash by “Robinson/Meskin,” minus lettering. So masterfully beshadowed were the pages of this Standard/Nedor series done by the team that even one of their more audacious concepts—splitting the Terrors’ domino masks in two so they become in effect merely spectral shadows around each individual eye— contributes to the grim effect. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

decided to get his own place to work. I was in Florida at the time, and joined him before long.

In 1949, Mort began teaching at the Cartoonists and Illustrators School, which later became the School of Visual Arts. That’s where I met and became close friends with one of the founders, Burne Hogarth, of Tarzan fame. One day, Mort asked me to talk to one of his classes. I did that a few times. Mort began having problems at that time and didn’t want to teach anymore. Mort was a wonderful teacher, but it was hard on him. So, in effect, I took over Mort’s class, which is how I got into teaching. I taught there for ten years.

“We Decided to Do All Four Features as a Team” JA: What gave you the idea to share a studio together?

ROBINSON: I had just come back from Florida and was starting to look for new accounts. That’s what led me to The Black Terror and Fighting Yank. Mort was doing “Johnny Quick” and “Vigilante,” and we decided to do all four features as a team. We did other freelance jobs for Simon & Kirby and a few other places. We felt it was easier to work together as partners, rather than just studio mates. If I felt like inking, I’d just ink. Other times, I just wanted to pencil. Mort was the same way. It worked because the different challenges enhanced our work and kept our interests high.

JA: You did The Black Terror and Fighting Yank for Standard Publications. Do you remember who wrote them or who your editor was?

ROBINSON: No. We had very little contact with them. Most of the time, the scripts were delivered to us, and we had someone else deliver the finished work. We often did the same with our DC work.

JA: You didn’t have much contact with Joe Simon and Jack Kirby then, did you?

ROBINSON: There were a few times when I went to see them to pick up a script and touch bases with them. We dealt with both Simon and Kirby, though I believe Joe was the one who handled the scripts.

JA: Why do you think the DC editors gave Mort such a hard time?

Was it just because they could?

ROBINSON: Well, they’d dominate anyone they could, Bill Finger being an example. Vulnerable people make easy targets. Mort’s stuttering and quiet reserve made him a target. Most of them knew little about art, but they had valid judgments about writing and storytelling, so anytime they saw something that didn’t match their interpretation of the script, they’d critique it. What we, the artists, did instead—and we never told them—was to change their scripts if something wasn’t workable.

The domino mask of Standard/Nedor’s Fighting Yank, on the other hand, vanished completely, as per these panels. Robinson/ Meskin work appeared in Fighting Yank #25-29, the series’ last five issues, behind Alex Schomburg covers. Repro’d from David Anthony Kraft’s Comics Interview magazine. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: Mort’s emotional problems seem to have started in the late ’40s, early ’50s. You have any idea what caused those problems?

ROBINSON: No... he just suffered from depression. It was difficult for him.

Sometimes he’d try to work through it and

6

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

The Robinson/Meskin team drew the interiors—again behind Schomburg covers—of Standard/Nedor’s Black Terror #23-27 (1948-49), after which the title was canceled, as were so many Golden Age super-heroes around that time. We’re fortunate that collector (and A/Enthusiast) Matt Moring, who’s done some of the painstaking retouching on several of these stories for AC Comics, saved scans of some pages he’d restored before grey tones were added—as per this pair of pages. This is probably as close as we’re ever gonna come to seeing original art of the Robinson/Meskin Black Terror. Check out AC’s ad elsewhere in this issue and give their website a holler to see lots of great vintage reprints. [Restored art ©2004 AC Comics.]

work 48 hours in a row and draw at an incredible pace. Sometimes, he wouldn’t go out for weeks at a time. It was through sheer force of will that he was able to work through those times. Maybe that exacerbated his problems... I don’t know.

Things got worse later. One time, he went to a hospital to recover for many months. The facility was in the country and I visited every week.

We’d take long walks and talks, which was good therapy for him. I don’t think anyone else visited him, with the exception of a sister, whom I only recall seeing on one occasion. His first wife Betty had problems, too, which made their home life very chaotic. They both needed therapy.

JA: Joe Simon related a story in which he said Meskin couldn’t face drawing on a blank page. He sat at his table all week without drawing anything. Joe solved the problem by drawing some meaningless lines on the page. Then Mort worked around the lines and drew the page. Did you ever see anything like this?

ROBINSON: It could have happened, with the caveat that the story may be a little exaggerated. It’s entirely possible that Mort sat there and didn’t do anything for some period of time. Those periods where he couldn’t work just got longer and deeper.

JA: When you two worked together in the studio, you didn’t see Mort have problems to that extent, did you?

ROBINSON: No, that came later. He may have had some problems when I met him, but they weren’t evident. We put in regular days at the studio.

JA: How did you and Mort work together?

ROBINSON: We experimented a lot in how we did the work. We were getting a little bored with doing comic books by that time. When you do as much as we had been doing for all those years, you have to do something new. Neither one of us visualized doing comic books for the rest of our careers. No matter how interesting or creative the work was, we also wanted to do other things, which we both managed to do. Mort went on to do television work at BBD&O, very successfully, and seemed quite happy doing it.

At times, we’d pencil on regular Bristol board and ink on a vellum overlay, which has a nice surface for pen and brush work. We’d sometimes get a nice half-tone effect, but some of the subtleties were lost in the printing process.

We also did stories without any pencils—just inked them. We did one story just lit from overhead. We enjoyed the challenges.

JA: Was Meskin a self-critical artist?

ROBINSON: That’s interesting, because at times he could be very

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

7

exacting in “getting it right.” At times, he used white-out profusely— white opaque, which isn’t like the white-out we have available today.

Back then, that white would often flake off while you were working over it, which was frustrating. Other times, he was prolific when he needed to be. But everything was still there, though the pencils were sketchy. He didn’t have to rely on reference material very often, because it was all in his head.

you teaching?

JA: As smart as he was and as gifted a storyteller as he was, he never wanted to write, did he?

ROBINSON: Bob was a really nice guy and extremely talented. He was my student at SVA for two years, and, just like Steve Ditko, I got him a scholarship for the second year.

ROBINSON: He never expressed any desire to write, as far as I recall.

He was a creator and certainly helped create characters. He’d suggest story ideas. Mort was a master storyteller and a composer. I was very influenced by that. We were storytellers, and our first job was to tell that story as dramatically as possible. If you can draw, but don’t focus on the storytelling, then all you have are pretty pictures that don’t progress the story.

JA: Did he ever thumbnail out what he was going to do in advance?

ROBINSON: He might have drawn some rough ideas, but he never did any thumbnails. Occasionally, he’d roughly block out the scenes first and then tighten the pencils. I never did thumbnails, either. I knew what I needed to do, saw the images in my head, and just started drawing, as did Mort.

ROBINSON: I taught four nights a week, four hours a night. Some semesters, I had up to 40 students! I worked during the day and taught at night, 6 to 10 p.m., and sometimes, after classes, I went back and worked some more. I don’t know how I did it—but I was young!

JA: You mentioned Bob Forgione. I’d like to know more about him.

At that time, I was doing a lot of work for Stan Lee at Timely, and needed an assistant. Bob started with me when he graduated, and we turned out a lot of work. I penciled and he inked, though I also did some of the inking. Sometimes I did both on splashes or on some story I really wanted to finish myself. Other times, I’d just rough out some backgrounds, and Bob was good enough to finish it. He learned very quickly, and after two years, he became my partner. We illustrated a lot of trade books together—about thirty or more, in addition to the comic books.

Bob did some television work, which paid very well. He was also

JA: Alex Toth told me that he once saw Mort take a page and then use the side of his pencil to gray it out. Then he’d pick out the white areas with an eraser.

ROBINSON: Yes, that’s true. He did that at times. It was just another way of working.

“I Taught Four Nights a Week, Four Hours a Night” JA: Were Mort’s problems the reason you two quit sharing a studio? I notice you didn’t work on the same features together after 1949.

ROBINSON: I don’t remember exactly. I know I went to Florida for a vacation around that time. We had done so many features that the pace we set burned us out. When I came back from Florida, I was asked to join the faculty at the School of Visual Arts [SVA]. That was in 1950.

Mort and I stayed close friends, but our contact lessened when he remarried. I should mention that there was a time in the ’60s when Mort lived with my wife and me. Mort needed a place to live when he got out of the hospital. Neither his brother or sister had room for him, but we did. It was our daughter Kristin’s room, who went off to college. The room had its own bath, so Mort had room to draw and to be by himself when he wanted to be. Mort lived with us for quite a while. We ate meals together and we were there when he needed us.

Bob Forgione, my assistant and later my partner, shared a studio with me at the time, and Mort occasionally worked there with us. Slowly, Mort recovered and got back on his feet, which delighted everyone. We were so glad that we played a part in his recovery. Mort seemed happier.

He married his second wife, Molly, who was a very lovely woman, and good for Mort.

Outside of Bernie Klein, Mort was my closest friend. He was a very modest man. I think he knew how good he was, but he wouldn’t talk about it. He was the only man I knew who could give Jack Kirby a run for his money in producing pages at that high level. He penciled a little tighter than Jack did, too. I was pretty fast, but not as fast as Jack or Mort. They were in a class by themselves. Mort was a special person, and I miss him—and Jack.

JA: You started teaching full-time in 1950. How many classes were

Artist Bob Forgione worked at Timely with Jerry Robinson, but eventually branched out on his own. This Forgione splash page from Tales to Astonish #26 (Dec. 1961), published around the same time as The Fantastic Four #1, is repro’d from a scan of the original art, courtesy of Timely expert Dr. Michael J. Vassallo, who owns the entire story. We’ll print more of it some other time, with his permission. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

8

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

Jerry’s proud of what his 1950s students at the School of Visual Arts have accomplished.

This included, clockwise: Stan Goldberg’s coloring and cartooning for Timely/Marvel during the 1950s and ’60s, and, since then, as one of Archie’s major artists. Thanks to Stan G. for this 2003 sketch, which appeared in Robin Snyder’s monthly mag The Comics!

Steve Ditko, who soon graduated to horror stories such as this cover and splash for Charlton’s The Thing! #13 (April 1954)—before becoming in the early 1960s the artist/co-creator of Spider-Man and Dr. Strange. Thanks to Bob Bailey for the scans.

Not a lot of Eric Stanton’s output is suitable for family viewing—not that that’s meant as a criticism. These two panels are from his late-’80s/early-’90s comic story “A Dull Day in the Neighborhood,” which Bob Bailey, who sent the scan, says “is inside Lady in Charge.” Bob continues: “I heard that he [Stanton] and Ditko worked together on some of it. But I also heard that most of the similarity in style was due to their long relationship as friends and students.”

[Goldberg art ©2004 Stan Goldberg; Archie characters TM & ©2004 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.; Thing! art ©2004 the respective copyright holders; Stanton art ©2004 Eric Stanton.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

9

very fast and a terrific storyteller, perfect for doing TV storyboards. Gradually, he got so busy that he did it fulltime, and became a top art director at a major ad agency.

We spent a lot of time together—I was like an older brother. We took vacations together, going to places like Fire Island and even to Florida once. He was a very goodlooking guy and women just flocked to him.

JA: We should all have that problem! [laughs] Stan Goldberg was one of your students, too. What was he like then?

ROBINSON: Stan was very industrious and talented. I didn’t see as much of him after class as I did some others, because he was already working at Timely. I felt as good about my students selling their work as I did my own. It was very exciting to see people develop and I derived great satisfaction from their success.

As for Steve Ditko, he was quiet and retiring, and quite young, as I recall. He was a very hard worker who really focused on his drawing. I used to tell my classes, “It’s great if you’ve got talent, but talent alone won’t get you to your goal, no matter how talented you are. But if you’re really dedicated, you can make it.” Some of the ones who weren’t overly gifted went further than more talented ones, solely because they were driven.

Steve had both the talent and the dedication to succeed. His work showed promise right away, and after the first year I got him a scholarship. He needed financial help, and I saw that he got it.

JA: What kind of student was he in class? Did he ask a lot of questions or was he more passive?

ROBINSON: He wasn’t that outgoing, but questions would be asked. I had different routines, because I was teaching writing as well as drawing.

I taught storytelling. I wanted my students to learn not just how to write and draw, but how to think. I explained that writing was a separate talent from drawing, and not all of my students were going to be writers.

But what they had to learn was how to pace a story, and that they must understand the story’s structure and characterization. Even if they didn’t write their stories, they’d be able to collaborate with a writer, and interpret how best to tell that story. Steve understood all of that: he could work with other writers as well as write his own stories and create his own characters. In the beginning of my classes, I didn’t have the students draw all that much. I wanted them to realize that they must have something to say before they start a drawing.

JA: I’d like to ask you about one more student: Eric Stanton. I’m sure you remember him.

ROBINSON: I certainly do. He did a lot of kinky bondage art. I could not get him out of doing that, because he started to get published while he was my student. I thought it was limiting, and that he couldn’t use it as a springboard to other jobs. He was a very good student—brilliant and creative—and I spent some time going over his work with him in class.

A number of students went on to fruitful careers. Dick Hodgins, Jr., was one of them. So was Mort Gerberg, now a noted New Yorker cartoonist, and Pete Hamill—the great writer—was also in my class for a time. Another student was Steve Flanagan, an artist who eventually became an editor for the Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate. A couple—

The late great Burne Hogarth, a founder of the School of Visual Arts— and renowned in the 1930s/40s as artist of the Tarzan comic strip—with a page from his 1976 black-&-white graphic novel Jungle Tales of Tarzan. [Art ©2004 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

like Jack Abel and Don Heck—I was able to get work while they were students. When I’d hear that a publisher needed an artist or a letterer, and when there were students good enough, I’d call the editor to get them the job. In fact, one year, my students made a total of $30,000, which was a lot of money in the 1950s.

JA: What kind of teacher was Burne Hogarth?

ROBINSON: Burne didn’t teach cartooning—he taught drawing and anatomy. Many times, we lectured together on subjects. For example: we’d do a two-hour lecture on the anatomy of drapery, and take turns demonstrating our approaches. All the cartoon classes would attend.

Burne was one of the greatest teachers I’ve known. He was incredibly knowledgeable about art history: Japanese, Chinese, European, Renaissance—he knew it all. Burne was a graduate of the Chicago Art Institute and had a remarkable mind. He retained everything he ever read.

If there was one thing about his teaching that I could criticize—and I say this as an admiring colleague and a close friend—it was that he was too dynamic. He was so powerful and domineering, that some of his students just tried to draw like him. I think Burne didn’t realize that.

They wanted to be like Burne Hogarth, which was impossible to do.

Instead, they should have concentrated on their own growth and forging their own artistic identities.

JA: Why did you stop teaching?

ROBINSON: Well, I taught at SVA for nearly ten years. I just got too busy with my art and I couldn’t juggle everything. Although, later, in

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

the ’60s, I taught one year at Pratt Institute and about six years at the New School for Social Research, but just one night a week. Teaching was a wonderful experience that I thoroughly enjoyed. It gave me a chance to organize my own perspective. When you’re teaching art, you have to explain what and why you do it to students. That opens your mind up to analyzing your own work in ways you hadn’t done before. Being a teacher improved my own drawing. I feel like I went to school right along with my students.

“We Would Go from Bed to Bed, Making Drawings for the Soldiers” JA: I know you had some interesting experiences while in the National Cartoonists Society, and I’d like to hear some of them.

ROBINSON: In the early 1950s, the National Cartoonists Society began a program where they sent a group of cartoonists to entertain soldiers at United States veterans’ hospitals. We would go from bed to bed, making drawings for the soldiers. Sometimes they were drawings of our characters, sometimes caricatures of the soldiers and/or their girlfriends. When the Defense Department saw what good therapy it was, they asked us to gather a group of cartoonists to go overseas and entertain at V.S. bases and hospitals.

were so successful that we had a standing offer to do this anytime we could get a group together.

One time, en route to Europe, the pilot invited us into the cockpit. We were all kidding around, when the pilot directed our attention to another plane flying above us in the other direction. He got on the phone and said to the pilot of the other plane, “You’ll never guess who I’ve got with me. A bunch of crazy cartoonists! The Flash [Carmine Infantino], Batman [myself], Joe Palooka [Tony DiPreta], Posty [Jay Irving], and Smokey Stover [Bill Holman]!” When the other pilot heard Smokey Stover, he shouted, “Smokey Stover! Ask him what Notary Sojac means.” Bill told the pilot, “Tell him it means horses**t in Gaelic!” [mutual laughter] As for our act, Bill was a combination of Don Rickles and Groucho Marx. He’d come out wearing a sports jacket and a loud tie—smoking a big cigar, and a real fireman’s hat à la Smokey Stover. Bill had the ability to insult anybody and they’d fall out laughing. I was there more or less as his straight man.

One of the funniest things that happened occurred in Germany. We were entertaining the troops in a huge theatre. We had five easels on the stage and we all drew our characters. Before the show, we were briefed about the base, like who was the camp Lothario, so we could work these things in the act.

I did a mind-reading bit. Bill would bring the Lothario on stage, and I’d tell him, “Now clear your mind of any embarrassing thoughts, because I’m going to draw whatever you’re thinking.” I’d draw the guy’s face, with plenty of room on his forehead.

I went on several of these excursions, which were always remarkable experiences. Usually, four or five of us went for five weeks at a time.

Sometimes, ten of us would go, and we’d split up in two groups, and go to different parts of the country. During a typical trip, we’d go to Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and Morocco. I did that twice. Another time, I went to Japan and Korea.

It was on these trips that I was first exposed to international cartooning. I met with the local cartoonists and the press, and really got a good look at the best in each country. I traveled with a bunch of terrific guys.

The only problem was that these trips were always over a month long.

That meant we had to get far ahead of our deadlines, which was a very tough proposition for newspaper strip artists. I had to slave for about six months to get ahead in the daily political panel (Still Life), and the Sunday page of humor (Flubs and Fluffs).

The very first trip I made was led

by Bill Holman, who did the Smokey Stover strip, noted for its nonsense sayings like “Notary Sojac.” He was the M.C. Our show would last an hour and a half as we put on several different acts. We also traveled with a model, so if things got tough, the audience would have someone pretty to look at (hey, even Bob Hope took Jane Russell!). We went to both army camps, naval bases, and hospitals. We

(Above:) Photo taken during the National Cartoonists Society tour, Korea 1955, on the back of a truck. (Left to right:) Lone Ranger artist Tom Gill, a model, two officers, the driver, Jerry Robinson, artist/Peanuts TV producer Jack Mendelsohn, two officers, and Curt Alderson, editorial cartoonist.

(Below:) Photo taken on NCS German tour, 1956. (Left to right:) caricaturist Mac Miller, DC/“Flash” artist Carmine Infantino, gag cartoonist David Pascal, a model, Smokey Stover writer/artist Bill Holman, and Jerry R.

Then, the model would come out in a skimpy bathing suit—this made the act sure-fire—with a Flit [spray] gun on a fancy tray and hand me the gun. I reminded the soldier to think clean thoughts, and then sprayed the drawing. Suddenly, a buxom nude would appear on the soldier’s forehead. The response of the soldiers could be measured by the time they were away from home.

Another time, at a base in Spain, the camp pet was this huge dog named Oscar, who stood almost as high as my shoulder. Everybody on the base knew this dog, and Bill decided to put him in the act. Bill said, “Jerry, when you do the Flit gun act, you’re going to read Oscar’s mind!” So, we arranged for a soldier to release the dog when I was introduced. Since I used to draw Lassie, Bill introduced me as the Lassie artist and said, “Tonight, Jerry will do something that’s never been done before: he’s going to read the dog’s mind.” They brought the dog—who was getting pretty frisky—up on the stage.

I had the dog stand up so I could draw his head, his front paws hanging

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!” on the soldier’s arms. The dog was almost as tall as the soldier. By this time the audience was screaming, and the dog got excited and couldn’t hold it in. He let out a stream that went out about four rows deep. He was a huge dog with a huge bladder! The soldiers are screaming. I finished the drawing and sprayed his head with the Flit gun.

Miraculously, there appeared a cat house! Well, wherever we went after that, the first thing Bill would ask was if they had a camp dog.

JA: Just be glad the dog never turned and faced you.

ROBINSON: I was!

JA: I’m sure there must have a few poignant moments for you on these tours. I’d like to hear about those.

ROBINSON: On one trip, we went to Morocco. Now, flying over the Atlas Mountains was very dangerous, because the landing strip was a hard sand-strip. All that could land there was a two-motored biplane.

The plane was just large enough to carry us. We volunteered to go there.

We always traveled light, with just easels, a roll of paper, and chalk.

Other entertainment groups had lots of equipment, so they couldn’t travel there. We were told, “If your plane goes down in the Atlas Mountains, they’ll never be able to find you.”

There were 144 men in the audience. It was an advance radar site.

Everyone was there, except for six men who had to man the screens.

This was a midnight show, and afterwards we were treated to a lavish party. In the middle of all the drinks, Bill again came up with a bright suggestion: “I feel bad about those six guys who missed the show. Let’s do a show for them.”

We were due to leave at 9:00 a.m., but at 6:00 a.m., we did a show for

11

the six men. We went to the theatre—and 144 men were there! They all came back, except for six men who replaced the ones who’d missed our show. We were in good form and the men were hysterical. They were so enthusiastic that they lined up along the runway when we left. It was times like that that reminded us why we did those shows.

Another show I’ll always remember was one in Japan. We were at a large base hospital. Many injured men still couldn’t be sent home after World War II, and others from the Korean War. Again, we went from bed to bed and entertained in the theatre, too. At one point, an officer asked me to visit a private room for a soldier who couldn’t be moved because he was hooked up to special equipment. I went in and it was heartbreaking. This soldier was in his early 20s, in a Rube Goldberg-like contraption. He couldn’t move or see me—his back was broken. He had to look in a mirror above his head, so he could see the foot of his bed.

He couldn’t have visitors and I have no idea how long he was there.

I did the whole show routine for him. I did a Batman and a Joker, a drawing of his girlfriend and one of him, and whatever else I could do.

I’ll never forget his face. Everyone who went on these tours felt they were a part of something special.

JA: They were. You were part of something those soldiers would never forget. By the way, Alex Toth told me that he ran into you in Japan, after the Korean War was over. Do you remember that?

ROBINSON: Yes, I do. We didn’t know each other very well, though I greatly admired his work. I had heard he was stationed in Tokyo, and as my group was there for a week, I thought I’d track him down. My colleagues included Fred Harmon (who drew Red Ryder), Wilson McCoy (who was drawing The Phantom), and Tom Gill (The Lone Ranger comic book artist). We met with Alex, who took us to a Mongolian restaurant, set in a beautiful estate, for a very exotic meal. We had a great time.

We had an exceptionally tall model on that particular trip. Now, Fred was also very tall, and he was dressed in full cowboy regalia that he wore on stage (and sometimes off it, too). One day, the three of us were walking down the Ginza— the Fifth Avenue of Tokyo—and Fred was wearing his cowboy outfit.

From the Japanese point of view, considering our appearance and the height of Fred and the model, we probably looked like we came from Mars. Before we knew it, dozens of people were following us. The crowd grew to hundreds—so many people that they had to close the Ginza. We went to the Takashamaya—which was their main department store— but so many people tried to follow us that the police had to close the store.

Jerry’s pencils and inks of what David Anthony Kraft, who first published these originals in Comics Interview several years ago, called “an imaginatively designed and strikingly executed splash page from a 1950s crime story.

Note how Jerry developed the solid blacks in the finished version.” Somebody changed the title, though, of this story from Amazing Detective Cases #6 (May 1951). [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

There’s one other story that’s worth telling. You know, at my age, every story reminds me of something else! I told you about Bill Holman. He had a way about him that made people laugh—

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

Jerry provided this montage of war-comics work drawn for Timely Comics in the early 1950s. Doc Vassallo says that all the interior art comes from Battleground #1 (June 1952)—written by Don Rico—except the one with the copy-less splash panel, which is from Battleground #3 (Aug. 1952). Doc also provided Jerry’s cover for Battlefront #5 (Oct. 1952). [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

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even when the joke was at their expense. We were at a hospital base in France. We were told, “You’re going to have a mixed audience. There will be men in blue bathrobes with physical disabilities and men in red bathrobes, who are mental patients”—patients who were recovering from shell-shock and other war-related emotional problems. We were instructed not to involve the men in red bathrobes. The doctors didn’t know what would happen, and since they were in recovery, it was felt that we shouldn’t push the envelope with them. Bringing them up onstage and insulting them wouldn’t be a good idea.

The show started and Bill asked me, “Are the mental patients in blue robes or red ones?” I couldn’t remember, either, but I said, “I think they are the ones in blue.” So Bill called up all the ones in red bathrobes, and, needless to say, we had guessed wrong. Halfway through the show, I saw guards appearing at the wings. We started getting nervous and realized something was happening, though we still weren’t aware that we had the wrong people on stage. Well, everybody was enjoying the show, which was the funniest one we ever did. Bill was pulling guys up and saying things, like, “You look like a crazy idiot.” Everyone was laughing, including all those in the red bathrobes, who were supposedly the neurotic ones.

The base commander was having a fit by this time, but the show came off well. Afterwards, the commander said, “If I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn’t have believed it. I was afraid we were going to have a riot on our hands, but apparently this was the kind of therapy they needed.” I once wrote an article about it, saying, “The people who had mental problems must have recognized Bill Holman as one of their own.” [mutual laughter]

The title is missing, but Doc V. tells us this story, “The City That Vanished,” appeared in Mystic #5 (Nov. 1951). Thanks, Doc! [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“I Got to Timely in a Very Interesting Way” JA: That’s funny, but then again, how many cartoonists are normal? [Jerry laughs in agreement] Now, let’s talk about your work for Timely Comics.

How did you get that work?

ROBINSON: I got to Timely in a very interesting way. I had taken a short hiatus from comic books and started to do book illustration. That’s also when I started teaching. I would invite professionals to come and speak to my classes— Stan Lee being one of them. When Stan came to my class, he asked me to work for him.

JA: What was Stan like to work for?

ROBINSON: Stan and I always got along very well. When I came in to see him, he’d tell me about new books he was planning and ask if any of them interested me. He let me choose what I wanted to work on. I did a lot of war stories, which were popular at that time, with the Korean War going on. I didn’t like doing war stories, per se, but the material was great. I tried to capture the realities of war. I had to do a lot of research to insure accuracy. Bob Forgione worked with me on many of those stories.

JA: You drew covers for Stan, too. Did you have to show him roughs first?

ROBINSON: I did.

JA: You drew crime, horror, and romance stories for Stan. You also did Bible Tales For Young People. Did you write any of your stories for Stan?

(Left:) We’re not sure where “Rudolf’s Revenge!” appeared—but Doc Vassallo feels it wasn’t a Timely/Marvel mag! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

ROBINSON: I don’t think I did. I liked doing a variety of stories. I don’t know if I’d have liked it, if I had been restricted to one genre. Stan gave me a lot of freedom.

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

Some Timely crime splashes.

Jerry provided most of the art, and Doc V. the ID’s: “The Black Robe!” (Man Comics #10, Oct. 1951)—“When the Mueller Gang Struck” (Crime Can’t Win #9, Feb. 1952)—“The Death of Danny Lewis” (Justice Comics #25, Jan. 1952)—and “The Big Break” (Justice Comics #22, July 1951). Doc informs us the latter two were scripted by Carl Wessler.

The “Big Break” scan on the left is from Jerry’s photocopy—that on the right, from the published comic (courtesy of Ger Apeldoorn, over in The Netherlands). [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

15

JA: Did Stan write very many of your stories?

ROBINSON: He may have given plot ideas to writers, but I don’t think Stan wrote very many that I drew. Don Rico wrote a fair number of them. I didn’t actually work with the writers, of course.

I also had the freedom to change the scripts when needed.

Many times, as in the past, someone else delivered the art for me. Sometimes, they’d pick up a script; other times, one would arrive in the mail. I enjoyed being with Stan when I came into the office. He was always very personable. Stan always knew what he was talking about—he understood story and he understood and appreciated good art.

“I Enjoyed Jet Scott” JA: In 1953, you started tapering off on your Timely work. I assume that was because you started doing the Jet Scott newspaper strip.

Jerry also drew several covers and interior stories for Timely’s Bible Tales for Young Folk, including this art for issue #3 (Dec. 1953).

Thanks to Doc V. and to Ocala, FL, dealer Herb McGrath. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ROBINSON: Right.

Sheldon was a good writer, but he wasn’t a comic strip writer.

JA: Tell me about Jet Scott.

The continuity went from Monday to Saturday and picked up again on Monday. The Sundays had a separate storyline from the dailies, and, of course, had to flow from week to week. Some papers only carried the Sundays. This was not an easy task for a writer who hadn’t written comics before. Sheldon had very good story ideas, but halfway through he seemed to lose interest, and that forced me to rewrite in order to tie it all together.

ROBINSON: The screenwriter Sheldon Stark was my collaborator. The Herald-Tribune Syndicate teamed us up. This was an adventure sciencefiction strip, not futuristic à la Flash Gordon, but the next steps in science. I did a lot of research on this strip, as well as a lot of rewriting.

JA: Why did it fold in 1955?

It takes two to tango. In this case, a Robinson/Meskin splash from Prize’s Young Romance #6 (July-Aug. 1948), and a Robinson cover on Timely’s Lovers #51 (July 1953). Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn for the former, and to Doc Vassallo for the latter and the IDs! Simon & Kirby’s Young Romance, of course, was the first love comic ever.

[Art ©2004 the respective copyright holders & Marvel Characters, Inc., respectively.]

ROBINSON: That’s an interesting question. We started off in 75 papers, many of which were major ones— quite a good list. That guaranteed us a decent income. When the two-year contract was up, we had to decide whether or not to renew. The syndicate and Sheldon wanted to continue the strip. Sheldon could write a week’s script in a day or less, but it took me around 12 hours a day, seven days week, to draw what was an illustrative adventure strip. I didn’t have an art assistant; I wanted to do all the penciling and inking.

That was a big load to carry. But I enjoyed Jet Scott and was pleased with the work I did.

But things go in cycles, and science-fiction was waning a bit in popularity. Lee Elias’ Beyond Mars was killed about this same time, as was another science-fiction strip.

These indicators told me that our strip wasn’t going to go any further than it had, so I decided to stop. It

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

wasn’t the best timing! In 1957, shortly after Jet Scott ended, the Soviet Union launched Sputnik into outer space. If the strip had continued, we’d have ridden the resurgent wave of interest in sciencefiction, but it was too late.

JA: Ben Oda was your letterer.

What do you remember about him?

ROBINSON: He was a very genial man who had accounts all over town.

He lettered comic books and so many newspaper strips, I couldn’t count them all. He was very reliable.

He taught his wife and son how to letter. I kidded him about it—the Oda lettering dynasty.

“Each Book Was a New Challenge” JA: During the 1950s, I have you listed as ghost-penciling both Kerry Drake and The Lone Ranger.

The Jet Scott Sunday strip for June 13, 1954. [©2004 New York Herald Tribune, Inc. or successors in interest.]

ROBINSON: That’s true, although I did those for relatively short periods. It was mainly as favors for Alfred Andriola [Kerry Drake] and, much earlier, Charles Flanders [The Lone Ranger], when they needed help on their deadlines.

JA: In the late 1950s, you came back to comic books for a brief while.

For Dell Publications, you did Bat Masterson, Lassie, and Rocky and His Fiendish Friends.

ROBINSON: I didn’t come back for long. As I recall, Rocky was done during one summer. They just seemed like fun books to do. I was doing a lot of book illustration at the time, which was something I really enjoyed. I eased into this career as I was leaving the comic book industry in the mid-1950s, though some were done in the 1940s as well. I had a good agent, so I didn’t have to run around, looking for the work. I’ve illustrated over 30 books on many different subjects for a variety of publishers. Each book was a new challenge, and since the deadlines weren’t tight, I was able to do some advertising work as well.

The variety of subjects kept rejuvenating my interest. Each book required research—which I loved doing. I spent a lot of time in libraries, immersing myself in the ambience of the period I was illustrating. The Lincoln biography, for example: how were log cabins constructed? What did the farm instruments look like? How did they dress? All these things had to be authentic.

Two superb pages from Jerry’s brief return to comic books in the late 1950s. Bat Masterson was a Dell/Western title licensed from the popular TV “adult western,” as they called ‘em then. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

I did a whole series of biographies, including Annie Oakley, Jim Bowie, Mozart, and Lou Gehrig.

Also, books on the Civil War, science, as well as fiction, for many major publishers: Putnam, Scholastic, Holt-Reinhart, Simon and Schuster, etc. I also did textbooks, which weren’t as much fun, but paid a lot of money. [laughs]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

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they wanted you to already have a track record. I had to get my foot in the door on my own. I found art directors looked down on comic book art when I showed them that work. I got the idea to clip the more illustrative panels from my original comic book art. I used non-super-hero panels from my adventure work, some crime story and western panels—anything that would look like an illustration. I showed them to an editor, and immediately got a book commission. Now I was able to present myself as a book illustrator! This was in the late ‘40s.

Before that, however, I got a call from my cartoonist friend Frank Robbins, right before World War II ended. He had a job that he didn’t have time to handle and asked if I’d be interested in doing it. Look magazine wanted several pages of half-tone illustrations for an article.

I was scared as hell. I’d never done anything like this before, and I worked very hard on it. Look was one of the most prestigious magazines in the country.

A duo of illustrations: one from the book Moon Trip and a figure for a biography of Mozart. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: How many years did you spend doing these books?

ROBINSON: I did most of those books in the 1950s and stopped in the early ’60s. Still Life and Flubs and Fluffs became my main focus, leaving me with little time for anything else.

There’s one book I did that I’d like to mention: Moon Trip, done before America started the Apollo program. It was a projection of what an actual moon trip would be like. One spread depicted astronauts on the Moon’s surface. There wasn’t a whole lot of reference available— technology hadn’t yet afforded us a real look at the surface of the Moon.

I had to create my own version of the Moon landscape. I showed the drawings to my editor, who said, “That’s not the way the surface of the Moon looks.”

The subject matter was America’s anticipated invasion of Japan. This was early 1945. The atom bomb had yet to be dropped and people were still speculating about how we were going to invade Okinawa and mainland Japan. This article was written by a well-known general. I guess Look was happy with the work and commissioned me to do a few more jobs. I didn’t pursue this course because I got caught up in other career choices, but I really enjoyed the challenge.

Any success I ever had as an illustrator came from my training as a comic book artist. In the comics, I had to draw everything under the sun from every possible angle, in order to effectively tell a story. Some of my book editors were amazed at how fast I could draw and that I’d take on any subject—as have other comic book artists who went into advertising and storyboarding. I didn’t tell them that I learned how to draw as a comic book artist. They had a snobbish attitude towards comics. I think that if you are successful as a comic book artist, then you can do most anything in the arts—illustration, film directing, even acting—whatever you want.

JA: I’ve always felt the same way. Speaking of which: few people know that you’re a photographer. When did you become interested in photography?

ROBINSON: When I started taking those overseas trips with the NCS. I used to take pictures before that, but this is when it became a bit of a passion. I had the good fortune to visit so many places with exciting, exotic locations that I wanted to record what I saw. I love to take photos of people and, of course, the opportunities to photograph different cultures were practically endless. I used a Canon 35-millimeter camera that a Life magazine photographer picked out for me while we were in Japan. I also used a Roli, which is a reflex camera. You look down at the top of the camera and can see the image in a much larger frame as opposed to putting the camera up to your eye.

As soon as he said that, he looked at me in sudden realization that nobody knew exactly what the surface of the Moon was like. Everybody had their own conception, so my version became his!

I collaborated on a couple of children’s books with writer Rose Wyler. She was one of the top children’s science writers. We lectured together, too. One of the books involved the character Professor Egghead, which I created for the book, published by Simon and Schuster.

JA: Did you paint the book covers or just do the insides?

ROBINSON: I believe I painted the covers on all of my books. Aside from the enjoyment of doing them, I felt it was important to have the same style on the cover and the inside consistent.

How I got into book illustration may be of interest. I was in the usual Catch-22 position: before an agent would take you on,

A Robinson illustration for a biography of Abraham Lincoln. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

When I hung the Roli around my neck, I found I could point the lens to my left or right, and I could look straight ahead— as if I were filming something in front of me—but photograph the image to my left.

This enabled me to take candid shots of people.

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The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II least you had a side career to move into. [Jerry laughs] Well, we’ll move on to more highlights. When were you President of the National Cartoonists Society?

ROBINSON: From 1967 to ’69.

And later on, I was President of the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists.

(Left:) Jerry fooling around in Japan, 1955. (Right:) He enjoys a laugh with Paris Review editor George Plimpton and Li’l Abner creator Al Capp at a National Cartoonists Society dinner at the Society of Illustrators, 1967 or ’68.

My favorite photographer was Henri Cartier Brisson. He strove to capture the crucial moment. I was inspired to do the same: to freeze the exact moment that tells the story—perhaps a hint of what happened immediately before the shot—and what might have immediately followed.

On that trip to Japan that I mentioned earlier, the NCS troop went from Tokyo to the northern island of Hokkaido. We stopped at military bases along the way. I spent one day in a rice patty, photographing the average day of a rice farmer. I was by myself and the people were very gracious in allowing me to film them. They went along with their work as if I wasn’t there. The family consisted of a grandmother, a mother and father, and two daughters—all working in this rice patty. Their everyday clothes were very colorful and they were up to their knees in mud as I was. There was a little boy in charge of the cart that held the rice bundles.

I never liked the idea of altering photos. I composed them as I photographed. I found this method challenging. In comics, I composed my pictures precisely as I wanted, and took the same attitude towards my photography.

I was very passionate about photography, and if my career had gone a different way, I could have been very happy doing this. I used these photos, among others, in my exhibition at the SVA Galleries, “Color Photography from Ten Countries.” I had another show of my work, but generally, I haven’t had the time to put photography shows together. I keep thinking that I’ll do this in my retirement years.

JA: You’ve had so many honors that we could go on for ages just listing them all. But I have to ask you about one in particular. In 1967, you won the highest award of the Italian Senate, The Presidente Senato.

ROBINSON: I was invited to be the President of the Jury at the International Salon of Humor (the oldest comics festival in Europe) in Bordighera, Italy. All the jurors exhibited their own work. You know: “You give me an award and I’ll go there!” [laughs] JA: You started doing editorial cartoons in 1961. What newspaper were you affiliated with?

ROBINSON: The New York Daily News. My work was distributed by the Chicago Tribune-New York News Syndicate, which today is known as Tribune Media Services. I worked for that syndicate for 17 years, then I formed Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate, which carried my cartoons until the early 1990s. So my editorial cartooning career lasted for 32 years. I did one cartoon a day, six days a week.

“Still Life” JA: Shortly after you started doing editorial cartoons, you launched Still Life. How did you get the idea of having inanimate objects discuss political and social conditions?

ROBINSON: Well, it was really to meet a challenge. I was offered a staff job at the New York Post doing editorial cartoons. I showed them Still Life, and they wanted to publish it, but I’d have to work on staff and do other things as well. I said, “Thanks, but no thanks, “ though it was a great opportunity. I was too used to working on my own, having been a freelancer since I left the staff job at DC Comics about 15 years earlier.

JA: Retirement years? Just when will that be? [mutual laughter] I couldn’t let that one pass.

ROBINSON: By the way, after my SVA show, I got a call from the art director of Collier’s magazine. An upcoming issue was going to deal with Japan and he wanted to print a portfolio of my pictures from there.

Well, that blew my mind, because it could have launched a whole new career for me, given the prestige that Collier’s had.

We put the portfolio together and I was all excited about the upcoming issue, when I was told that Collier’s had ceased publication. I was slated for the next issue, which never came. It was heartbreaking!

JA: It even hurts to hear about it. Hey, at

One of the early-1945 illustrations Jerry did for Look magazine, then the major competitor of Life. It depicts scenes from a projected American invasion of the Japanese home islands.

A couple of mushroom clouds made that unnecessary. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

I learned that you don’t know if you can do something unless you try it. Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don’t. The only things I regret are the things I didn’t try. Anyway, I wanted to be an editorial cartoonist for a long time. At this point in time, there were no Op-Ed pages as you know them today. Generally, there was just the editorial page. At the top was an editorial cartoon, the editorials were on the left, and whatever space was left was for a columnist and letters to the editor.

I understood that the only way I could do editorial cartoons was to be on a newspaper staff, which I

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!” didn’t want to do. The only way around it was to do an editorial comment that didn’t look like an editorial cartoon. No paper was going to print two editorial cartoons on the same page. In searching for an alternative, I came up with the idea of using inanimate objects, and did it in a vertical panel rather than a typical horizontal.

This way, it could be run in one column on the editorial page, and not look like an editorial cartoon. I made the graphics simple and it worked. The problem was coming up with a good name for it.

My wife Gro came up with the perfect solution: Still Life.

After I had turned down the Post job, I worked up 30 days’ worth of cartoons. Just then, a newspaper strike hit New York that lasted for a long time. Interim papers sprang up, run by striking editors from the major papers. Some were better than others, usually 12 to 16 pages. It was just enough to keep the New Yorkers up with current news.

19 were interrupted. Clark excused himself and laid down on his desk the file he’d had in his hand. I couldn’t help but notice the file had my name on it.

When Clark came back, I started to tell him about my work for the Metropolitan Daily. He said, “Yes, I know about it,” opened his file, and I saw that he had clipped every cartoon I had done.

He said he thought I was already syndicated. Before I left his office, he dictated a letter to his secretary, I shook his hand, and that was our contract for 17 years. In one fell swoop, I had a contract with the Daily News and the syndicate.

JA: It’s amazing what can come out of a strike.

ROBINSON: It certainly changed my life. I was so overjoyed! I always considered myself to be a political animal, and here was my chance to state my views in a public forum.

Millions of people would read what I had to say. Having that space was more satisfying than doing a comic book. I always considered it to be a great privilege.

I decided to go see one of the strike papers, thinking I could jumpJerry Robinson poses in 1961 near a New York Daily News truck that start Still Life. I walked into the sports a poster for his Still Life “panel”—juxtaposed with a pair of primo office of Metropolitan Daily and JA: So you did Still Life until 1977? specimens of Still Life. [©2004 Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate; showed the editor a few examples. He website = <http://CartoonWeb.com>.] said, “I’ll publish these.” I said, “No,” ROBINSON: Yes, but it didn’t end because these were samples that I there. After 16 years, I began to feel planned on sending out for possible syndication. “But I will do new hemmed in with the format. In retrospect, I’m surprised I was able to go ones, commenting on the newspaper strike.” so long, only drawing inanimate objects commenting on the news.

Because Op-Ed formats had changed, I could now do a conventional The editor asked me to do a week’s worth. I was so elated that I had political cartoon. I changed Still Life to Life with Robinson. It became made a sale right away. I proved that editors would like Still Life, even if a horizontal cartoon, and I started using people and caricatures. I did this was for an interim newspaper.

Life with Robinson for 18 years.

This was in the morning. Right from there, I decided to go to NBC, which, because of the strike, was running a special expanded news program every day just for New Yorkers. I walked in the office, told them I was doing a daily cartoon on the news, and they took me in to see the producer. He asked if I would do four more for the next night’s program. I said, “Sure.”

JA: Since we are talking about your political cartoons, I think this is the best place to have you tell me about your experiences in the “real” world of politics. Let’s start with President Lyndon Johnson.

I dashed home and worked day and night. The NBC network also used some of the local coverage, including my cartoons. I hadn’t realized that was going to happen. They asked me to do three a week for the rest of the strike period. I spent this time refining the strip: how best to write the dialogue and define the drawn objects. On the basis of all this, I soon had enough material to take the idea to an syndicate.

ROBINSON: President Johnson invited a group of political cartoonists to the White House. He loved editorial cartoonists and probably wanted to influence us, too. [laughs] He avidly collected cartoons, especially those in which he appeared. He liked one of my cartoons and asked me to make a copy for him, which I did. He signed one of them to me and he kept the other, which is now at the LBJ Library.

I called Warren King, who was the editorial cartoonist for the Daily News. At that time, Richard Clark was the New York Daily News editor and also the head of the Chicago Tribune-New York News Syndicate. Warren set up an appointment for me to see Clark, who was a very sharp, revered man in the company: mild-mannered and unassuming. I went to his office, and had just started to talk when we

He threw a party for the cartoonists and our families in the East Ballroom. There was great food, an orchestra... Johnson loved to dance.

Before we left, he took a picture with each of us, individually, and sent us signed copies. Little did he know that the day before, my wife Gro— who was a political activist—was picketing the White House in protest of the Vietnam War. And the next day, we were shaking hands with

“LBJ Was Bigger Than Life”

20

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

In the late 1970s, Still Life metamorphosed into the horizontal one-panel comic strip Life with Robinson, which ran for nearly two decades. [©2004 Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate.]

Johnson in the White House. Only in America, as they say!

JA: That’s true. In many countries, you two would have been hung!

ROBINSON: That’s right. I liked LBJ very much as a person, but we were against the Vietnam War, which he inherited and certainly didn’t solve. He was a sensitive man with a very tough exterior. All in all, on many other issues, he was a great President.

Later, after he retired to his ranch, he set up his Presidential library in Texas. Again, he invited a group of cartoonists and our families for the opening of his library, and for a day at the LBJ Ranch. It was a warm summer day and he was stretched out on his lawn chair. One of his aides briefed us on the ground rules, knowing everyone wanted to have a few words with LBJ. We were instructed to go in very small groups.

Then he said, “Oh, how would ya’ll like to see my birthplace?” And off we went. After that, he took us to the LBJ Museum, which was in the LBJ State Park. In the museum was the LBJ Theatre. We filled about half the theatre and they put on what movie? The LBJ Story! Narrated by guess who? [mutual laughter] We had the additional pleasure of having the “live” LBJ make comments during the movie—interrupting himself on the screen.

JA: What? No LBJ popcorn?

ROBINSON: He didn’t have the concession yet. [laughs] Now, when I got back to New York, my Still Life cartoon for that day was of a signpost pointing to the various places we had gone to—this way to the LBJ Ranch, this way to the LBJ birthplace, this way to the LBJ Theatre, etc. I drew another sign saying, “Boy, he sure knows how to re-live!” They

The other ground rule was that we couldn’t talk politics. Well, what the hell were we going to talk about with LBJ, if not politics? At one point, there were three of us sitting around him, and Johnson said, “How would you all like to hear about the Suez Crisis?” Of course, we were delighted to hear his take on it. He talked for about twenty minutes, detailing how he dealt with the crisis. Everyone near us was wondering what we were talking about. Only, we weren’t doing the talking—Johnson was. We had exceeded our time limit, but we weren’t about to interrupt Johnson!

As he’s finishing the story, he suddenly stood up and asked if we’d all like a tour of his ranch. He snapped his fingers, and a bunch of Secret Service agents appeared from seemingly nowhere. Then, several buses drove up. Each bus had one of the Johnson women in them. It just so happened that Lady Bird was hostess in our bus, with Lynda Bird and Lucy Bird in the others. Along came this white convertible, driven by LBJ himself. And all the buses followed.

At one point, he stopped and said over the intercom, “How would y’all like to see the best view of the ranch at the top of that there hill?”

Lady Bird said, “There’s no way to get up there, Lyndon.” He said, “Oh, we’ll take care of it,” and out came a couple of Secret Service men—who took out a couple of fence rails, so we could drive across the field. We got to the top of the hill to see the view, and then he took us up the road to the LBJ schoolhouse, which he had preserved.

Alas, no photo of Jerry and Gro Robinson with LBJ—but here’s an advertising illustration done by Jerry for NBC’s election coverage—presumably in 1964. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

21

always said LBJ was bigger than life— and he was.

anything about him—and I did—and he’d ask for the original.

“I Sleep Better at Night Knowing You’re the President”

JA: Johnson had a better sense of humor than Nixon did. In fact, Nixon might have even put you on his “enemies list.”

JA: Oh, yeah! Now tell me about Henry Kissinger.

ROBINSON: It was the custom then—and maybe it still is—that if a President or a very top official asked And here’s Jerry (then you for original cartoon art, you had president of the the option to personally deliver it to Association of American the White House. Kissinger wrote me Editorial Cartoonists) such a letter, and as I was already with a later President, named Jimmy, circa slated to visit Washington, I decided 1978—plus our to take the cartoon to the White interviewee’s cover for House. I made an appointment to see his 1981 collection of the Dr. Kissinger. I was ushered into his best political cartoons office, where I met his assistant, of the ’70s. [Art ©2004 Alexander Haig. I hardly knew of Jerry Robinson.] him; he wasn’t well-known back then.

Haig immediately brought out a photographer and had our picture taken together.

Haig said, “I’ll accept Dr. Kissinger’s cartoon,” which obviously disappointed me. “I’m sorry Dr. Kissinger couldn’t be here, and I can tell you why, but if I do, you won’t be able to leave this room for the next 90 minutes. If you’ll agree to stay here, I’ll tell you why you can’t meet with him today.”

I didn’t have anything more pressing that morning, [laughs] so I agreed to stay. Haig said, “We didn’t cancel this meeting because we didn’t want a leak of any kind, and someone might get suspicious. At this moment, Kissinger is in China, arranging for Nixon’s historic visit.”

For 90 minutes, I had a world scoop, but I couldn’t tell anybody about it!

JA: It’s too bad you didn’t get to meet Kissinger. But you did meet Richard Nixon, and I’d like to hear that story.

ROBINSON: I first met Nixon during his Presidential campaign against Hubert Humphrey in 1968. He came to a meeting of editorial cartoonists. Editorial cartoonists have some clout. Politicians recognized this, so we had meetings with most of the Presidents, starting with Harry Truman. Nixon already had a reputation with editorial cartoonists, going all the way back to when he smeared Helen Gahagan Douglas in his Senate campaign.

JA: Yeah, he called her “The Pink Lady.” He wasn’t called “Tricky Dick” for nothing, you know.

ROBINSON: [laughs] That’s right: the axis of evil. Nixon was three corners of it. [mutual laughter] Anyway, I was doing Still Life when Nixon became President. Just days after he was in the White House, I received a couple of requests from Nixon for cartoons I did of him. I have to back up here and say something about Jack Valenti, who was LBJ’s right-hand man and notorious sycophant. Once he was quoted as saying to LBJ, “I sleep better at night knowing you’re the President.”

That phrase was widely satirized.

I drew a cartoon of the White House, with a word balloon coming from it, saying, “I sleep better at night knowing you’re the President.”

The other word balloon said, “So do I, Pat.” Nixon asked for that original. He only wanted flattering cartoons. Once I started criticizing him, Nixon never contacted me again. LBJ wasn’t like that. I could say

ROBINSON: He might have, now that I think about it. On the occasion that I delivered the first cartoon to Nixon, I asked him to sign a copy for my own studio. He said, “Just leave the drawing for me.” The next week, he sent me the copy, with engraved lettering: “To Jerry Robinson, whose Still Life frequently brings smiles to my eyes. Best wishes, Richard Nixon.” I’m sure, later on, I brought tears to his eyes. [laughter] I must say that he was my favorite target for as long as he was in office.

I also presented a cartoon requested by President Jimmy Carter, who posed with several of us editorial cartoonists. I have one of him laughing like hell, and I wish I could remember what I said to him! We also met with President Ford. He took us to a little room off the Oval Office, where he kept his collection of cartoons. The whole wall was covered with political cartoons.

JA: What did you think of Jimmy Carter?

ROBINSON: I admired Carter. He was very bright. For a man who didn’t have much experience in foreign relations, he did a pretty good job—certainly better than the current President Bush. Carter was a great humanitarian and a peace-maker. He deserved the Nobel Peace Prize. He was hurt by the Iranian hostage crisis and the high gas prices, which weren’t his fault. OPEC was responsible for the gas prices.

“Flubs and Fluffs Was a Nice Change of Pace” JA: I’d like to back up and ask you about your other newspaper feature, Flubs & Fluffs. How did you come up with the idea for it?

ROBINSON: At this time, my wife Gro was working as a curator for the Brooklyn Children’s Museum, which, by the way, was the first children’s museum in America. She taught classes, gave lectures and guided tours, among other things. She used to tell me amusing things that the children would say, which were often quite unintentionally funny.

For example: one kid, who was about seven, was wandering around and Gro asked him why he wasn’t in school that day. The child, a young African-American boy, replied, “Because it’s a Jewish holiday.” Gro said, “Fine, but you’re not Jewish, so you should be in school.” He answered, “Yeah, but I’m Jewish spiritually.”

It was stories like that which gave me the idea for the Flubs & Fluffs feature. I thought that if I could put together a page of unconscious humor, I’d have an interesting and entertaining feature, based on actual classroom boners. I named it True Classroom Flubs & Fluffs.

I experimented with various formats and drawing styles, before settling on what I was going to do. I decided to quote the exact flub,

22

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

using the mistake in a real way in order to showcase the mistake. I also would do takeoffs on the flub. For instance, a kid wrote that George Washington was one of our “floundering fathers”— instead of “founding.” I drew an elaborate picture of Washington crossing the Delaware River, except that the boat was sinking. I also wrote some funny dialogue to accentuate the point. Another kid wrote in an exam: ”Julius Caesar said, ‘I came. I saw.

I conked her.’ ” You can imagine what the illustration was.

JA: You did this weekly feature for quite some time. What newspaper did you do this for?

ROBINSON: I did it for the New York Daily News from 1964 until about the time I founded Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate in 1974. It was a Sunday feature that usually took up half a page, though sometimes I did a full page. On holidays, I did double-page spreads. We also published three collections of Flubs & Fluffs.

I was doing this at the same time as the daily Still Life, so I was really busy. But Flubs & Fluffs was a nice change of pace and great fun to draw. I would get up to 1,500 letters a week, in big mailbags which I could hardly carry home. My son Jens, then about seven, and a group of kids would come over to the studio, and spend hours opening the letters, putting the letters in piles, for me to read.

The amazing thing is that I’d get letters from all over the world. The Sunday News had an extremely popular comics section that included Terry and the Pirates, Li’l Abner, and Dick Tracy. Readers would send the comic section to people all over the world. I got letters of all kinds.

A lady in Detroit sent me a crocheted Flubs & Fluffs, which I still have on my wall. I also received exam papers from teachers, with the funniest flubs you’d ever read. Everything I used were actual flubs. I never had to make anything up, though one might think they weren’t real.

JA: Why did you stop doing Flubs & Fluffs?

ROBINSON: Because I had started Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate and my workload had become too much.

“Imagine That the Co-creator of Superman Was Reduced to This!”

JA: I want to spend some time discussing your involvement with getting Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster some overdue recompense from DC Comics. You’ve told me the story before, but I want to share that story with readers who may be unfamiliar with your role in this.

How aware was the comic book community in regard to the lawsuit in the 1940s? And how did they feel about it?

(Top left:) Gro Robinson, seen here in a 1963 photo, brought home stories that inspired Jerry to create his Flubs & Fluffs feature. (Above:) A Sunday Flubs & Fluffs from 1983. (Left:) Jerry and Gro’s son Jens in the late ’60s, perusing letters that became the basis of Flubs & Fluffs.

ROBINSON: I was certainly aware of it. I think most of us were aware, and most were very sympathetic to their plight. They fought this battle for a long time, and I was in contact with Jerry and Joe during this time, so I knew what was happening. But the suit dragged on so long that I eventually lost track of them. They’d lose an appeal and try again, and it seemed like it’d never end. A lot of top lawyers helped them—many on a pro-bono basis. Some would drop out after a while.

I once heard they had made a settlement and that they got a pension, but this turned out to be untrue. When I was on the board of the National Cartoonists Society, we used the Milt Gross Fund to help Joe out on several occasions, so I knew of his plight at that time. Jerry and Joe were so devastated by the entire affair. They both moved out to California; we just didn’t hear about what was happening.

Joe Shuster was literally destitute and was supported by his brother Frank, who was a draftsman and living in Queens, New York. Their living conditions were minimal and Joe took on all kinds of jobs, including—and Joe told me this himself—a job as a messenger boy.

Imagine that the co-creator of Superman was reduced to this!

The most poignant story of all happened one day when Joe had to deliver something to DC. Or if not to DC, then in the same building. It was winter and bitterly cold outside, and Joe wasn’t wearing a coat. He didn’t own a winter coat. Joe was near an elevator when he encountered DC publisher Harry Donenfeld. Donenfeld says, “Joe! What are you doing here?” Joe said, “I’m delivering a package.” Donenfeld said, “It’s cold out there. Why aren’t you wearing a coat?” Joe said, “I don’t have a coat.” Donenfeld said, “Here’s $10. Go out and buy yourself a coat,” then gets into the elevator and leaves.

Can you believe it? Here’s a guy who made Donenfeld millions, and he gives Joe ten dollars to buy a coat. Joe couldn’t even afford a coat! It’s Dickenesque, isn’t it?

JA: Yes, it is. And I can believe it, because some of those old-time publishers were just monsters.

ROBINSON: Some, but not all. It’s like anything else: there’s good and there’s bad. Some of the publishers happened to step into a gold mine and became multimillionaires.

JA: Yeah, on the backs of their freelancers, who seldom got anything for their creations.

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!” ROBINSON: There’s no reason to have treated creators like that.

Neal got a similar proclamation from the comic book organization, ACBA. I contacted the Artists Guild, the Writers Guild, and the entire board of the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists, and the Screenwriters Guild, in order to gather their support. I called everyone I knew or could contact that had any clout: New Yorker cartoonists, Kurt Vonnegut, Will Eisner, Pete Hamill, Mike Wallace, and others, here and abroad. I knew we had to have the entire arts community supporting us.

We contacted our artists around the world to publicize the matter in their papers.

JA: I know you know that there was a time in the late ’50s, early ’60s, where Jerry Siegel was able to get some work from Mort Weisinger, writing “Superman.” But the conditions under which he got that work were humiliating, especially considering he was the co-creator of Superman. And Joe was reduced to doing breakdowns for Charlton Comics by the mid-’50s. The stories I’ve seen lack the Joe Shuster style.

ROBINSON: His eyesight was so bad that I don’t even know how he was able to draw breakdowns. He was suffering from that even when I worked next to him at DC. When he drew, his face was three inches from the page, and his vision got even worse after that. He was certifiably blind by the 1950s.

We were dealing with Warner Communications, the parent company of DC, and I knew all this publicity would come to their attention. We knew that the public pressure we orchestrated would cause them great embarrassment. This was our most important leverage. The movie was in production, and they couldn’t afford the bad publicity. We brought all the letters of support and newspaper articles to Warner, and Neal and I set up negotiating meetings with them.

Jerry and Joe put all this our hands.

JA: How did you get involved with helping Siegel and Shuster in the 1970s?

ROBINSON: Jerry and Joe were my longtime friends; I admired them both.

Moreover, they were fine men—honest and hard-working, generous, and of course extremely talented. Early on during their first lawsuit, several of us were involved in helping find legal representation for Jerry and Joe. But that’s as far as it went at that time.

23

I called Jules Feiffer, who got a lawyer to work on a pro bono basis.

The lawyer sat in on some of the sessions and gave us legal advice. The rest of the negotiations were done between Neal, myself, and Warner executive Jay Emmett—a nephew of Jack Liebowitz—and his associates. We were in negotiations for over a week, from morning to late afternoon.

By the mid-1950s Joe Shuster, co-creator of “Superman,” was reduced to doing layouts/pencils for comics like Charlton’s Science-Fiction Space Adventures #11 (May-June 1954). Finishes by Dick Giordano.

Thanks to Bob Bailey. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

It wasn’t until the Superman movie was in production around 1976, that I really got involved. I was working in my studio with Bob Forgione—and we had the television on, but we weren’t paying attention to it. All of a sudden, I heard the name “Jerry Siegel.” I stopped working and started watching. Jerry was in the audience of some talk show, when he got up and started talking. This was completely unrehearsed.

Jerry spoke passionately about what had happened to him and Joe. I hadn’t seen Jerry for a few years and was upset about what I was hearing. I immediately called Jerry at home in California, and he brought me up to date about what was happening. He told me he had also received a call from Neal Adams, and I said I’d call Neal and work with him on this.

The first thing Neal and I decided to do was to alert the entire arts community about what was happening. It so happened that there was about to be a board of directors meeting of the National Cartoonists Society, to which I was invited as a past President. I called Bill Gallo—a good friend and then NCS President. Jerry and Joe were coming into town, and we were scheduling public appearances for them. I suggested that I write up a resolution for the board’s support.

Jerry, Joe, and Neal came to the meeting; the resolution was passed unanimously. Now, there was another organization of gag cartoonists, the Cartoonists Guild, and fortuitously, they were having their annual meeting the same day. I was invited to address the membership.

Everyone there was sympathetic toward what we were trying to do. The entire membership immediately signed on.

We wanted Jerry and Joe to have an annual pension and hospitalization, to have their legal fees paid, and to get them out of debt—among various other issues. We were making progress in all these areas, but not on creator credits.

JA: Why were creator credits such a problem?

ROBINSON: They didn’t want to open any possible loopholes that might result in Jerry and Joe having any rights to the Superman properties. But this was eating me, because I knew what those guys had been through, and the anguish they’d felt all these years.

For years, Jerry worked as a postal clerk because he couldn’t write anymore. The stress made him physically ill. And I already told you what Joe had gone through. I took pictures of his apartment, which was in dreadful shape. In fact, one day, Joe was picked up in a park as a vagrant. The police officer took him and bought him something to eat.

While he was there, he saw a couple of kids eating and told them he had co-created Superman. Neither the kids nor the police officer believed him, so Joe drew a picture of Superman to prove it.

It wasn’t just the money, because that alone couldn’t resolve the emotional and physical havoc they’d lived through. They needed to have their dignity restored, as creators and as human beings, by having their names on their creations.

Every day, either Neal or I would call Jerry and Joe, and report our

24

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II around 2:00 a.m. and said, “Okay, except for the film. We can’t do the film because the titles have been done.”

I said, “Look, Jay. You’re not talking to a non-professional. Titles can be changed the day before the opening.” He knew that, but was seeing if he could get away with it. It was now Friday morning, and D-Day for settling. I said, “Their names on the film is a must. I’ll agree to give up the toys.” I was trying to get whatever I could at the last minute.

Emmett finally agreed to my demands, after another call to his lawyers, and we had a deal.

Neal was in Florida as a guest at a comic book convention. He didn’t know about Jerry’s instructions to settle on Friday. I called Neal that morning and said, “I hope you’re sitting down. I got their names restored.” He was elated. I called Jerry and Joe, and they were absolutely ecstatic. They flew to New York for the signing.

The “Superman” signing took place on December 23, 1975—just in time for Christmas! (L. to r.:) Joe Shuster, Neal Adams, Jerry Siegel, Jerry Robinson.

progress. On a Thursday night, I called Jerry. He and Joe had returned to California because the tension was too much for their health. Even calling every day added to their anguish; they were at their emotional wit’s end. Jerry told me to settle on the best terms we could by the following day. He said, “We can’t go on any further.” Jerry had suffered a heart attack a couple of years before, and was fearful of what this stress would do to him. He said, “I want to survive so I can leave something to my wife and child.” If he had died that day, the family might not have received anything, since nothing had been signed as yet.

After I hung up the phone, I was terribly agitated. All this weighed heavily on my mind, because I didn’t know whether or not we could do it. Warner could have walked away from negotiations at any time, if we pressed for too much. The leverage we had would only carry us so far.

I called Jay Emmett at his home, and bearing in mind Jerry’s instructions, decided to go for the creator credits. I said to Emmett: “You’ve got to restore Jerry and Joe’s names if you expect this agreement to have any support among the arts community. Warner depends on talent in all your divisions, and you know we have their support.”

The fantastic epilogue to this story happened when we agreed to have a celebration party at my apartment that evening. We had promised the producer of The CBS Evening News that we would let them break the story if they agreed not to talk about it beforehand. After the agreement was signed, I left Warner. It was pouring rain and I couldn’t get a cab.

Finally, as a cab stopped at the building, I noticed a woman standing nearby. It was Anne Jackson, the actress wife of actor Eli Wallach, whom I had previously met. I invited her to ride with me, knowing that she lived near my apartment. On the way, I told her the whole story about Siegel and Shuster. Before I told her the outcome, she thought that was terrible and offered to help. I said, “That’s very sweet of you to offer, but let me tell you what just happened.” I invited her and Eli to the party, and they joined us.

Besides Siegel and Shuster, friends and supporters, there were a lot of top cartoonists and others who had helped to get this done, at the celebration. We turned the TV on to watch The CBS Evening News.

Walter Cronkite saved the story until the end of the broadcast, when he reported the Superman settlement. On screen was a shot of Superman flying through the sky, and Cronkite said, “And this proves that Truth, Justice, and the American Way won out!” We all lifted our glasses of champagne in a toast, along with Jerry and Joe, and believe me, there wasn’t a dry eye in the house.

JA: How could there be? That’s such a moving story.

ROBINSON: For years, while Jerry and Joe were alive, I got letters and Christmas cards from them—I’m sure Neal did, too—thanking me for what I did. Jerry’s widow Joanne still sends me a card every year, and we occasionally speak on the phone. On my recent trip to California, I had lunch with Joanne and her daughter Laura. They are both beautiful and courageous people—and are both positive despite their years of struggle.

The last thing I said was, “You know, Hamlet is not under copyright, but Shakespeare’s name is on his works. You don’t leave Conan Doyle’s name off the Sherlock Holmes stories.

The same goes for Jerry and Joe. They created perhaps the most important character of the twentieth century. You must restore their names as creators of Superman.”

Emmett said he’d have to call me back. I knew he had to talk to his lawyers. A couple of hours later, he called me back and said, “Okay, we’ll restore their names on the comic books, but the movie’s in production— the titles are done—and we can’t put their names on it. We can’t put their names on toys or other products, either, that are already licensed.”

I said the bottom line is, we can agree about the toys, but their names must be on all print material and films.

He said he’d call me back. He called

I must say, in naming the three things I’m proudest of in my lifetime, that this is one of them.

JA: I think that’s a great thing you did, and one of the things I think about where you are concerned.

ROBINSON: Well, I was lucky to have the connections I did. I called everybody I could think of.

Photo from The New York Times, 12-24-75, with its cutline.

When Jerry and Joe passed away, DC had memorial services for both of them.

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!” A non-political drawing by Francisco Laurenzo Pons, a.k.a. “Paco”—and a 1982 photo of Jerry in Nashville with musician Tom T. Hall, composer of “Harper Valley PTA” and the song “Free Francisco Laurenzo Pons,” which was part of the cartoonist’s campaign to free Paco.

[Paco art ©2004 Francisco Laurenzo Pons.]

25 his life. His torture was very terrible. Many prisoners gave up hope and committed suicide under these conditions. Many times, the families wouldn’t know what happened to them. They’d be sentenced to five years in prison and sometimes, stayed for ten—if they lived that long.

JA: What did you decide to do?

At the end of their lives, they were on good terms with DC. Over time, DC upped their pensions, through the good offices of Steve Ross, and Joanne got to know Ted Turner, who went to bat for them in order to increase those pensions.

I spoke at Jerry’s and Joe’s memorials and pointed out that if Jenette Kahn and Paul Levitz had been in charge back then, I don’t think Jerry and Joe would have gone through the years in the wilderness that they did. It was the previous regimes who mistreated them.

“I Worked to Get the Cartoonist Francisco Laurenzo Pons Out of Jail in Uruguay” JA: I’m just glad there was some sense of closure for Siegel and Shuster. Unfortunately, that doesn’t always happen in life. This is a good time to talk about your other humanitarian works. Most readers don’t know this, but you were very instrumental in helping cartoonists in other countries, and I’d like you to tell those stories.

ROBINSON: These things are what mean the most to me. In the early 1970s, I worked to get the cartoonist Francisco Laurenzo Pons out of jail in Uruguay—where he was being tortured. I started on it while I was president of the AAEC (Association of American Editorial Cartoonists), and continued during the term of my successor, a terrific guy, Sandy Campbell, of the Nashville Tennessean.

One day, I got a call from Jules Feiffer, who had been called by Amnesty International [AI] about Pons. Jules knew I was interested in human rights issues, and put me in touch with them. They told me about Pons—he signed his work “Paco”—who worked for the magazine Marcha, that covered news events and politics. This was 1973, during the time when a military junta took over the government. These guys ran the worst fascist government in South America, according to AI. They killed and tortured their political enemies.

ROBINSON: We had to give him hope. Through various avenues, we were able to contact his wife, to let her know that we were going to help. The first thing we did was to hold several cartoon auctions in order to raise money for his wife and child. Once a person was in jail there, the family was cut off from getting money. These families would survive on what little they had or through friends who could discreetly help them. Through these auctions, we were able to funnel money to Pons’ family. When we found someone who was flying to Uruguay, we’d get them—at great personal risk to them—to get money to Mrs. Pons.

One day, I came up with an idea to get him out of there. I invented a new award, The Distinguished Foreign Cartoonists Award, for the AAEC to give to cartoonists, which the board quickly approved. We were going to award it to Pons and request that he come up to receive it, under the pretense that we didn’t know he was in prison. To make the award even more authentic, we made it a joint award—one from a leftist regime and one from a rightist—with the dean of Polish cartoonists, Eric Lipinski (whom I knew), being the other winner. It took some time to get this pulled together, with the help of Sandy Campbell.

We made an appointment with the Uruguayan embassy to invite Pons to come to America to accept the award. We explained to their ambassador how big an honor it would be for their country to have Laurenzo Pons win this award.

I got a dossier from Amnesty International about the ambassador— who turned out to be one of the worst bastards I would ever meet.

Unfortunately, he was the one we had to deal with. We couldn’t breathe a word about Amnesty because Uruguay’s leaders hated AI for publicizing their evil ways. The ambassador said he’d see what he could do.

All the opposition newspapers and magazines were closed down and the editors and staff were thrown into prison. The editor fled to Mexico.

Pons was married and had a small child, and refused to leave the country. Along with many others, he went into hiding for a year or two, before they finally caught him.

We didn’t hear from him after that. Several months passed, and now the convention was only a week away when we received a letter stating that Pons’ wife and child would receive a seven-day visa, so that they could come and accept the award. We considered this to be an incredible thing, because this regime normally wouldn’t allow the family of a political prisoner out of the country. But they would not let Laurenzo out.

Typically, they accused him of being a Communist, because he opposed the regime. AI designated him a “prisoner of conscience,” which meant that he used non-violent means in opposing the regime. All he did was to write and draw his views. If we had that kind of regime running America, most cartoonists would be jailed and tortured. We empathized with Pons’ plight and decided to do what we could for him.

His wife told us that she would not remain in the US while her husband was in jail. But we presented her with the award. Also, the Polish cartoonist came from Warsaw to accept his award. We were able to spend some time talking to Mrs. Pons and over the years, I’ve kept in touch with the family. His son, then about six, still has the picture of Batman that I drew for him.

Our main objective was to get Pons out of Uruguay in order to save

JA: So this was a major convention then?

26

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

ROBINSON: Oh yes. We had several hundred editorial cartoonists attending. The convention was in Nashville, Tennessee. It was so successful that we continued the awards for several years. You know the singer-composer Tom T. Hall? One of his hits was “Harper Valley PTA.” Hall found out about the event, and wanted to help. On his own, he composed and recorded a song about Laurenzo Pons. At his own expense, he made up thousands of “Free Laurenzo Pons” t-shirts. He gave them out all over Nashville... people wearing them who never heard of Pons. He also threw a party for us at his estate.

Anyway, Mrs. Pons was able to visit Laurenzo in prison once a month. When she told him that American cartoonists were trying to affect his release, Laurenzo was astounded. He didn’t understand why we’d want to help him. She told him she was getting money from us, too. This news really helped sustain him through the darkest hours of his imprisonment. Now he had hope, because someone knew about him.

In the meantime, we now told the Uruguayan embassy that we were doing all we could to publicize his plight. We did the same thing that we did with Siegel and Shuster: publicize the story throughout the world.

We had to keep the pressure on them, because we knew they wouldn’t kill him under these circumstances. At one point, they even took him out of prison to a hospital because they were afraid he’d die in prison.

Several months later, Laurenzo’s wife called to say that her husband was being released. He was originally given an eight-year prison sentence, six of which he’d already served. He was being released ahead of time, and as I told you, they didn’t have to release him at all. He could have rotted there for another ten years. This was fantastic news!

Laurenzo, before he became a cartoonist, was trained as an architect.

When he got out, he went back to that profession.

JA: I think that’s such an amazing story. The work involved in such an undertaking seems enormous, considering everything else you were doing, too.

ROBINSON: It took three years to get Laurenzo free and it was worth every single moment. Human rights have always been at the forefront of my concerns. They are what matters most in life.

“Getting a Cartoonist Out of the Gulag” JA: No one reading this will dispute you, either. Now tell me about the Russian cartoonist you helped.

ROBINSON: Several months after Laurenzo was released, a

man called me from New York, to secure my help in getting a cartoonist out of the gulag in Soviet Russia. He was a friend of the cartoonist, and heard how we helped free Laurenzo Pons. I wasn’t sure what I could do, but he had some of this artist’s work smuggled out of Russia. I told him to come over and let me see the art.

He turned out to be a wonderful artist. His name was Vyacheslav Sysoyev, and I said I’d do what I could. I immediately showed the drawings to Jarelle Krause, then art editor of the Op-Ed page of The New York Times. She loved Sysoyev’s work, too, and immediately bought a cartoon. So, less than a week after I got the drawings, one appeared on the Op-Ed page of the Times, taking up a third of the page.

Subsequently, I sold several more of his cartoons.

I had already scheduled a trip to Moscow for other reasons. I had the money from the sales of the cartoons, but had to figure out how to get it into the country. I brought it in a money belt, and luckily wasn’t searched. Actually, the big crime was taking money out.

In the meantime, Sysoyev was released from the gulag and placed under house arrest. By the time I got to Moscow, he was under surveillance, but no longer confined to his home. We arranged to meet at a gallery exhibiting the works of former dissident artists. I should mention that these events took place under Gorbachev, which meant that the social and political structures were changing from the previous Brezhnev regime.

This time of Glasnost and Peristroika was incredible. Russia was halfway to becoming an open society: newspapers and magazines that couldn’t have existed in previous years were now allowed to publish.

This art exhibition would never have been allowed under the old regime.

It was the first time that Sysoyev’s work was allowed to be seen. It hadn’t even been published before, except in the underground newspapers, which were illegal, and of course, the reason for Sysoyev’s imprisonment.

I met him and his wife at the gallery. He turned out to look just like a Russian artist. [laughs] He was dark and brooding, with long black hair.

His wife was very pretty—they looked like opposites. I had brought along with me the Op-Ed page of The New York Times, where his cartoon had run. The entire trip was worth seeing the look on their faces when they saw the page. It was such an amazing thing to have happened: his work was run in a major American newspaper, when he couldn’t get published in his own country. They couldn’t quite believe their eyes.

Russian cartoonist Vyacheslav Sysoyev and two of his political cartoons. According to the website <www.cartoonweb.com>, in the 1970s he was an active contributor to “unofficial” art exhibitions around Moscow and Leningrad, and was finally arrested in 1983 and sent for two years to a labor camp in “cold dark Archengelsk.” He has “since moved to Berlin, where he is editor-in-chief of Russian-language Ostrov, an art and literature digest. In 1998 a CD was published containing about 1400 of his images.”

[Art ©2004 Vyacheslav Sysoyev.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!” JA: It’s so hard to imagine that kind of life, since we live in such a free and open society here. It all seems so ludicrous.

27 A cell from Stereotypes, the animated film about Cold War images made in 1990 for Soyuzmult Films in Moscow by a team of Russians and Americans, with Jerry Robinson as co-art director/writer. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

ROBINSON: It does. He used to work as a carpenter and a bricklayer, like many other artists had to in Russia. They couldn’t be employed as teachers, for example, because the government would be afraid of what they’d teach their students.

Afterwards, I was invited to their home, which was a very small, barely adequate apartment. At one point, I asked to see his studio. He pointed to the corner of the room, where there was a small desk. I learned then never to ask to see a Russian artist’s studio. Not long ago, I visited the Sysoyevs in Berlin, where they now live.

That’s basically the story, except to mention that I’ve visited Russia four times, and always spent time with cartoonists. Through my syndicate, Cartoonists & Writers, I’ve sold many of their cartoons. On several trips to Russia, I brought the artists their royalty money.

Originally, we had to deal with the Russian Arts Agency, but I learned something after my first trip. I discovered that the agency would either keep 9/10 of the money or all of it. The cartoonists had no way of knowing when the money was coming in, so there wasn’t much they could do. That’s why I always brought the money with me (also in a money belt) when I visited—to insure the cartoonists got every penny that they should have.

One time, I brought $5,000 with me, to be divided among five or six artists. Now, that was a lot of money to them, especially at that time. I brought the money in American dollars, because that was the most valuable currency they could have. On the black market, they could have bought a car and a refrigerator with that kind of money. One of the artists’ share was nearly $1000, and he was so overcome that he fell on the floor. He said, “Jerry, you don’t know what this means. We can live for three years off of this.”

When the country moved away from Communism, they were worse off in some ways. They made the transition too fast, so some people suffered in the costs of food, housing, etc. They weren’t able to adjust, so that’s why the money was so important to these cartoonists. The money I brought meant basic survival to them.

JA: I have a note here reminding me to ask you about the film you made: Stereotypes.

ROBINSON: On one of my visits in the late 1980s, I was with a cultural exchange group which included scientists, journalists, publishers, and the like. We also had a filmmaker. She had seen some of my work on exhibit, and wanted me to work on a film.

I joined the writing team and was co-art director with my Russian counterpart. We worked up a proposal for the film, Stereotypes. The idea was show how each country saw the other in stereotypical Cold War terms. This project demonstrated how stereotypes got in the way of mutual understanding. We worked on it for a couple of months, producing an hour animation film, with one live-action sequence, that was shown on Russian television, through Soyuzmult Studios.

During the course of making the film, the producers had to come to America for post-production to use our equipment—theirs was so antiquated. The head of animation, Efim Gomborg, was the “Walt Disney” of Russia. It was quite an experience, working on this film and living in Moscow. I had a chance to experience a Russian cartoonist’s life.

I went to the Opera, art exhibits, and museums. They did everything they could for me, especially considering their limited resources—but there was always plenty of vodka!

“I Can Never Say No to a New and Exciting Project” JA: We’ve barely touched upon your writing, and I think this is a good time to do so.

ROBINSON: I started out to be a writer or journalist, as you know, and was very grateful that I found time to do that in my career. The most time-consuming, yet satisfying writing project I undertook was the book on newspaper strips, The Comics: An Illustrated History of Comic Strip Art, published by Putnam. It took three years to complete. I did all my own research and was responsible for selecting all the black-&-white art.

Jerry’s covers for his books The Comics: An Illustrated History of Comic Strip Art and Skippy and Percy Crosby. Skippy was one of the most popular comic strips of the early 20th century. [Art ©2004 Jerry Robinson; characters on covers ©2004 their respective copyright holders.]

One example of the research: all the previous references to the start of The Yellow Kid were Feb. 16, 1896.

My research didn’t confirm that, so I had to track down the exact starting date. It took some time, but finally, while doing some research at the New York Historical Society, I found bound volumes in the basement of The New York World from the 1890s—the paper that published

28

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II wonderful reviews and it sold very well. Almost every major American newspaper reviewed it. Many of the reviewers discussed how great it was to see the work of foreign artists, and that so many of them were brilliant, that it was a shame that they were seldom seen in the US.

Well, I read that line a couple of times, and I started to wonder, “Why not? Why can’t we see their work Jerry never travels without his sketchbook. The sketch at left was drawn in Prague, in the Czech Republic, regularly?” I spent a couple in 1998—the one at right, in Bordighera, 1997. [©2004 Jerry Robinson.] of years developing the idea.

I realized that we couldn’t the strip! I was able to pinpoint the first appearance of The Yellow Kid sell just one foreign cartoonist’s work—no matter how brilliant. I had to as May 5, 1895. That is now the accepted date for the start of The devise a way for American editors to show their readers a diversity of Yellow Kid. The US Postal Service acknowledged that date when they opinion from cartoonists all over the world. This service would inform issued a Yellow Kid stamp a few years back. their readers about how events were interpreted in other countries.

The book that was a special challenge was my biography of Percy It took over two years to put together the first group of cartoonists.

Crosby: Skippy and Percy Crosby, published by Henry Holt. Jules We started out with around fifteen to twenty cartoonists from about Feiffer wrote the introduction. I was taken by Crosby’s art on Skippy, fifteen countries. Sometimes we had to deal with their newspapers in but there wasn’t enough room in the history of comics to expand on it. regard to rights, if the artists didn’t own the rights themselves.

Crosby had a very fascinating career and life. He had his glory years, but became an alcoholic and a paranoid. His life ended in a mental institution. He was in a veteran’s hospital, having served in WWI. He couldn’t get out of this hospital, and he shouldn’t have been committed there in the first place. He was certified as a dangerous paranoid, but they really didn’t know how to diagnose such cases back then.

The only way he could get out was to have someone be responsible for him, but there was no one. It was a tragic story. Skippy was a precursor of Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes.

JA: You briefly mentioned Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate (CWS).

Tell me how you started that company.

ROBINSON: In 1978, I did the book The 70s: Best Cartoons Of The Decade for McGraw-Hill. I had seen many political cartoon compilations over time, and noticed that they never included foreign cartoonists. I had already traveled around the world and met the top cartoonists in many countries. I thought it’d be great to do a book showcasing the best cartoonists—including foreign cartoonists—so that it would truly reflect the world’s best.

McGraw-Hill didn’t want me to include foreign cartoonists because they weren’t known One of the exciting projects Jerry here. They felt that they could couldn’t say “No” to was doing publicize American cartoonists illustrations for Playbill, the magazine like Herblock and Pat distributed at Broadway theatres in New York City. From 1979-1985 he drew Oliphant, but that no one “Theatre Life with Robinson,” featuring would know or care about such caricatures as Mickey Rooney in foreign cartoonists. I wouldn’t Sugar Babies (1979—sketched in do the book unless at least half Rooney’s dressing room) and a of the book showcased foreign montage of scenes from Andrew Lloyd cartoonists. They finally Weber’s Evita. [©2004 the respective agreed. The publisher got copyright holders.]

The feature Views of the World is a weekly round-up of opinions from around the world. It’s been almost thirty years since I started CWS. We now represent over 550 leading artists in 75 countries, and we syndicate their work to major journals throughout the US and the world. In addition to political cartoons, our service includes caricatures, illustrations, and cartoons. It’s just as satisfying to me to have their work published as it is to sell my own work.

We also handle top American cartoonists. We are proud to represent two of the best: KAL (Kevin Kallaugher), editorial cartoonist of The Baltimore Sun and The Economist (London), and Jeff Danziger, threetime finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and a world-class creator.

Last year, we began a global collaboration with The New York Times Syndicate. Our cartoons are now also part of the The Times’ News Service at NYTimages.com, as well as on Cartoonweb.com.

JA: I’m assuming this takes up most of your time.

ROBINSON: It has for many years, because I never can say no to a new and exciting project. Do you know about Astra?

JA: I know a little about it, but not very much.

ROBINSON: For twenty years, we spent every summer at Cape Cod. In addition to my newspaper features, I would have a summer project—one summer painting, a couple of summers teaching cartooning. One summer I

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

29

made a film, starring my wife and son.

Shojin Tanaka.

About four years ago, I met Sidra Cohn, a talented singer-composer.

She wanted to know if I’d work on a project with her. She was very intrigued by my creation of The Joker, and wanted to collaborate on a musical. One of the characters would be a modern-day villain similar to The Joker. I had never written a play or a musical before, but I liked the challenge. I was impressed by the things she had done in her career. We soon decided that the main character would be a heroine named Astra.

Astra first appeared in four installments in a monthly magazine . This was to gauge if the series generated any interest. It did, and the series was then collected in graphic novel form. The Japanese version uses our concepts, but her adventures are strictly Japanese. Manga is a very idiosyncratic form, as you know. I think there’s a great potential for this series. Later, an English version of the Japanese Manga adaptation of the original musical was published in the US—which is still available from Bud Plant. You never know!

Astra came from the planet Eros, which was in conflict with another planet, Tyros. Both were very advanced civilizations. Tyros was completely wiped out, and all the men on Eros were killed during the war. Eros was doomed because there were no men to repopulate the planet.

One day, they found, in the ruins of a laboratory, a sperm bank. By chance, only one vial of female sperm cells survived. So every year, for hundreds of years, the Queen designated a woman to give birth to a female child. Over the centuries, the idea of men became mere folklore.

Finally, Queen Cosma discovered that the vial was empty. She had been expecting this to happen at some point, so she spent time training her daughter Astra to go out into space, looking for a male to save to the planet. That was the introduction to the story we call a “comic book opera.” It’s a science-fiction/romantic comedy/political satire! Astra is found in space by our hero, astronaut Adam Trueheart.

We set this story during the Cold War, so there was a battle between the Americans and the Russians for her. Both sides wanted access to her advanced technology. Our villain, Doctor Light, was a megalomanical Donald Trump type of character, who wanted her for his own purposes.

Of course, she’s very naïve and knows nothing about men.

We wrote this as a three-act musical. We wrote the book and lyrics for thirty songs, cutting a demo for four of them. We’ve been advised that the musical would probably be too expensive to put on. To bring you up to date, we’re looking at doing it as an animated or a live-action film.

JA: Plus, you have ownership of the property.

ROBINSON: Right—together with Sidra.

Family and Friends JA: Early on in this interview, you told me about your brothers and sisters, but not your wife and kids. We ought to include them in this.

ROBINSON: By all means. My wife Gro, the love of my life, is Norwegian, and was in Oslo during the Nazi occupation of World War II. She has vivid memories of what happened then. After the war, she was hired as a columnist for Aftenposton, Norway’s leading newspaper.

She had just finished college. A couple of years later, she got a grant to study in the US, and of the colleges she had the opportunity to go to, she selected Kent State. A year later, she transferred to Columbia University Graduate School and later became a museum curator. For the last thirty years, she’s been a psychotherapist and I’ve been her main patient. [mutual laughter] I have two children. Kristin is an accomplished painter and graduate of the New York Institute of Fine Art. She later became a photographer.

She’s exhibited her unique hand-colored photographs in many shows and museums. She now lives in Maine with her writer husband Christopher. She does commissioned magazine photography, and is working towards a masters in social work at the University of Maine.

JA: How did Astra become a comic book?

ROBINSON: We decided to make a graphic novel of the play. There was a retrospective of my work in Tokyo. I was there for the opening, and was asked about my current work. I mentioned the musical Astra, and showed some sketches, which had been drawn by Frank Thorne. I had known Frank for many years, and since he’s always drawn beautiful, delightful women, I asked him to do this.

We worked together on it, and Frank basically storyboarded the first few scenes.

But at this time I only had sketches of the main characters, which were displayed in the show.

A few months later, I was back in New York, when I received a call from a Manga publisher. He was very intrigued by Astra, and wanted to license the rights for a Manga series. I thought that was a good idea. They flew me to Japan for a couple of weeks, where I worked with the Japanese writer Ken-Ichi Oishi and artist

My son Jens graduated from Dartmouth College, and then Northwestern University Law School. In between, he went to the London School of Economics and got a masters in International Relations. Rather than practice law, he joined the Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate as an editor. He’s indispensable and now runs the syndicate from our main office on the West Coast. Jens has a beautiful wife, Janice, and two terrific children, Natalie and Lucas. Jens and his family live in California, so I don’t see them as often as I’d like. I miss them.

JA: You told me off-tape that Wally Wood was the best man at your wedding. I’d like to hear what you remember about him.

The cover of the Japanese Manga version of Astra, created by J.R. and Sidra Cohn. [Comic art ©2004 the respective copyright holders; concept TM & ©2004 Jerry Robinson & Sidra Cohn.]

ROBINSON: Gro and I married in 1954.

It was a intimate wedding with just a few people: my father, Wally and Tatjana Wood, Gro and myself. My mother was too ill to come. Wally was a very dear guy. He was troubled, though it wasn’t apparent in those early years. He was

30

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II

“It’s the Public Who Determine What Their Art Is” JA: Do you still draw?

ROBINSON: Only on special occasions. I do a lot of sketching in New York and on my trips. I did Still Life and Life with Robinson every day for 32 years. I did that up until the mid-’90s.

JA: You don’t miss the grind, do you?

The American Family Robinson: (Clockwise:) (a) Jerry’s daughter Kristin, pop artist Roy Lichtenstein, and Jerry ponder Jerry’s pop art version of Still Life, at the NCS Pop Art Exhibition in the 1960s. (b) Young Jens with Gro and Jerry meet Pierre Trudeau in the early 1970s—as the popular Canadian Prime Minister “receives a four-leaf clover picked that morning in Central Park, New York City.” (c) Jens (a bit older), noted Manga artist Go Nagai, and Jerry in Tokyo, 1996.

ROBINSON: No, but I miss doing a political cartoon. I liked being able to comment on current issues every day.

quiet, introspective, and very dedicated to his work.

He was a great draftsman, artist, and creator. And Tatjana colored comics for many years.

This interview has me thinking about where comics fit into the entire continuum of art. The medium itself has a secure history in graphic art, and should be treated as an art form. I think we’ll be seeing comics as a distinct form of Americana, like jazz and

country music.

At this time, the Woods lived just a few blocks from us, so we would see each other often. I was distraught when I heard about his suicide.

We’d been out of touch for a few years, so it was a complete shock to me.

JA: Were you aware that he drank a lot?

ROBINSON: It must have gotten much worse, because I remember him just as a social drinker. We didn’t take vacations together, but I remember that the Woods came to visit us at Cape Cod. He seemed to enjoy himself when we were together. We used to go to Fred Waring’s cartoonists weekends. We went to parties at his house, ate lunch together, went to NCS meetings together, and we always had a good time.

JA: I think the time is right for that now, if only we could somehow seize the moment.

ROBINSON: I wrote in my book on newspaper strips that America has always been slow to recognize her contributions to culture. Film was thought of as lowbrow when it started, and of course the same is true of comics. Comics did have its antecedents in Europe, on one-sheets where the pictures were drawn on wood blocks, but they couldn’t integrate type with them at that time.

JA: And German artists like Albrecht Dürer were telling stories in woodcuts. Not to mention the artists who painted triptychs to tell stories on walls.

ROBINSON: And you could go back to the Egyptians and even the cavemen. The graphic novel can be traced back to the “Penny Dreadfuls” in England—cheap popular novels.

Then the whole series of children’s books, like

JA: I know he played the guitar and loved to sing.

Did he ever do that at parties?

ROBINSON: Occasionally.

JA: Did you sing with him?

ROBINSON: I hope not. It would have ruined the party entirely!

JA: What do you remember about Tatjana?

ROBINSON: She was very devoted to Wally; a wonderful woman. She looked after him.

JA: Do you remember the last time you saw him?

ROBINSON: One of the last times I talked with him was when he called me at Cape Cod. He and Tatjana were divorced and he was remarrying. He had such good memories of our marriage ceremony that he wanted to know who married us (Rabbi Newman was the man who married us in his home). Wally wanted a simple ceremony like the one we had, though we were unable to attend.

I know he had health problems at the end and that it affected his ability to draw. That must have been a terrible blow to him. Wally loved to draw.

(Above:) The original cover art for Jerry’s paperback smash The World’s Greatest Comics Quiz. (Right:) In the published version, The Yellow Kid had to be substituted for Snoopy when Peanuts’ syndicate denied the use of its canine character. Thanks to David Anthony Kraft.

[All characters TM & ©2004 their respective trademark & copyright holders.]

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

31

Tom Swift and other adventure stories. There were dime novels with Annie Oakley and other western characters. And from there, they evolved into the pulp magazines to the comic books and to graphic novels.

JA: Look at Norman Rockwell, whom many people put down as “just an illustrator,” never minding that he had the skills to do fine art or that some of his magazine covers were social commentary on the times.

There were usually technological reasons for the advancement in storytelling. The progression of the comic book to the graphic novel is another example. It’s a living art form, but the so-called critics and people who set the parameters of what is called “Art” never considered anything that was too popular. It’s the public who determine what their art is.

ROBINSON: I had long hoped for comic art to be recognized as one of America’s unique contributions to our culture, and as Gilbert Seldes’ wife put it, one of the “seven lively arts.” With that goal, in 1972, I curated the first exhibition of cartoon art at a major fine art gallery: the Graham Gallery in New York. In 1974 I was consulting curator for the largest exhibition of American cartoons at the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C.

ZAP! POW! BAM!: The Superhero–-–The Golden Age of Comic Books 1938-1950 [Information provided by Jane D. Leavey, Executive Director, The William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum, Atlanta, Georgia.]

Originated by The Breman Jewish Heritage Museum in Atlanta, and curated by Jerry Robinson, this exhibition will open to the public on Sunday, October 24, 2004. It will invite visitors into the world of superheroes, illuminating the creative processes and influences that drove their young, largely Jewish creators to provide the nation with a steady antidote to America’s despair and helplessness as the stock market crash of 1929 brought the Roaring Twenties to a shuddering halt. ZAP! POW! BAM! will offer a unique perspective on the way pop culture portrays issues and how identity and culture can shape popular opinion.

The superheroes’ medium, the comic books, would become the novels of the working class. The comics’ unique blend of disciplines—art, writing, story-telling—gave readers both a visual and verbal experience that proved both versatile and long-lived. In its one-to-one relationship to the reader, the comic book explored every genre of story and performed some of literature’s most basic functions—it expressed dreams, dramatized aspirations, and personified illusions, giving readers recognizable and lasting cultural icons.

At the height of their popularity in the ’30s and ’40s, comic books

were sold in thousands of outlets and read in millions of homes. One of the first entertainment products to be marketed directly to children and the young, comic books helped shape the world view of an entire generation and provided their publishers with solid commercial success.

As curator, Jerry Robinson offers his many years of experience in the comic book industry and his numerous personal connections to current comic book authors, artists, and collectors. His vision is invaluable to the creation of an exclusive, behind-the-scenes look at the Golden Age of comic books.

The exhibition will include original comic book art culled from major individual and institutional collectors and representing the most wellknown superheroes of their day. Our display will also be rare early comic books and objects belonging to the first comic book creators and publishers, as well as superhero memorabilia. Also featured will be 1940s Hollywood-produced movie serials, video interviews with some of the leading comic book artists and writers of the day, and a number of interactive opportunities.

The exhibition will be on display at The Breman through August 2005. For more information, visit The Breman’s website, www.thebreman.org.

Jerry Robinson may not have drawn all the heroes of the Golden Age, but a montage of those he did draw makes a good montage illustration to accompany the above notice. (L. to r.:) a black-&-white version of the limited-edition portfolio illustration from which one of this issue’s covers was taken, based on the cover of Detective Comics #70 (Dec. 1942)—the main splash page from Atoman #1 (Feb. 1946)—and art from a Robinson/Meskin Black Terror splash, as retouched for reprinting by Bill Black’s AC Comics. Thanks to Mike Catron for the Atoman art. [Sketch ©2004 Jerry Robinson; Batman TM & ©2004 DC Comics; Atoman art ©2004 the respective copyright holders; retouched Black Terror art ©2004 AC Comics.]

32

The Jerry Robinson Interview–-–Part II there was no real follow-up to that book, in terms of social acceptance and popularity?

ROBINSON: I thought there were some artists who’ve done very good books of that order.

JA: You’re right, but none of them seem to have tapped into mass cultural acceptance as Maus did. It seems to me that there’s a lot of work yet to be done before that happens. Maus won the Pulitzer Prize, but for some reason, no other graphic novel has really followed up that success.

Jerry speaks admiringly of this pair of Pulitzer Prize-winners whose linear ancestors were printed in four colors: Art Spiegelman’s 1986 graphic novel Maus, and Michael Chabon’s 2000 novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay. The wraparound jacket illo for the latter is by Marc Burckhardt, with jacket design by Andy Carpenter & Kapo Ng. [Maus ©2004 Art Spiegelman; novel cover art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

ROBINSON: I am surprised about that. I’m sure it’ll happen, though. The subject of Maus was so profound and Spiegelman treated it so creatively. It is an exceptional work. That’s part of the reason. Also, the brilliant The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay by Michael Chabon, also a Pulitzer Prize winner.

JA: Weren’t you also a part of the International Museum of Cartoon Art founded by Mort Walker?

JA: Did you ever think about doing one of your own? You certainly have a book within you.

ROBINSON: I have been honored to serve on the Board of Trustees and as Chairman of the International Advisory Committee. On my travels, I was able to collect hundreds of originals by some of the world’s top artists for the museum. We hope to have a new home at an exciting location in the center of New York City in the very near future.

ROBINSON: Maybe.

JA: I know that you brought exhibitions around the world. What were they?

JA: Well, there’s still time for you to do it. After all, Will Eisner’s older than you are and he’s still producing wonderful work.

ROBINSON: Yes, he is. I’ve always greatly admired Will. He’s a unique talent and an inspiration.

JA: After your long productive career, are you ready to retire?

ROBINSON: Absolutely not! I’m only 82!

ROBINSON: Three I produced at the invitation of the United Nations: “Our Endangered Planet” for the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992; “Human Rights” for the Human Rights Summit in Vienna in 1993 (for which we produced an extensive catalog); and for “The Conference on Population & Development” in Cairo in 1994. I included works by concerned creators from around the world. They were unforgettable experiences. I also covered the events as a reporter/artist for a daily newspaper, Terra Viva.

JA: What do you still want to accomplish?

ROBINSON: Well, in no particular order: there are about 25 more countries I’d like to visit (I’ve been to about 40); I’m planning a photography exhibit and have to edit a lifetime of photos; finish my memoirs (I’ve done about 70 pages so far).

You mentioned that I should have a novel in me. Well, actually, I do have one in mind. I’d also like to find time to do more painting, finish the filmed history of the cartoon arts with my partner, Aron Laikin, and resume my tennis competition with my on-court nemesis, Mike Wallace.

JA: Were there others?

ROBINSON: Well, yes. Over the years, I brought exhibitions of American and world cartoonists to Taiwan, Japan, Poland, Russia, Italy, Slovenia, Portugal, Spain, Mexico, and Brazil. Gro enjoyed these trips as much as I did.

Currently, I am curating an exciting exhibition for The Bremen Museum in Atlanta: “The Superhero: The Golden Age of Comic Books.” It will be the first examination in depth of that phenomenon. It opens in October 2004. I guess they asked me to do it, because I am one of the few survivors!

JA: And I even got to help out, albeit in a very small way! Now, I know you are aware of Art Spiegelman’s Maus. Are you disappointed that

JA: How are you going to do all that?

A parting triptych: Jerry at the offices of the newspaper Journal du Brazil, in Rio de Janiero, circa 1992— beneath images representing the comic books and comic strips which have loomed so large in his creative life: a Batman sketch (done for and provided to us by collector Peter Hansen) and a Still Life panel. [Sketch ©2004 Jerry Robinson; Batman TM & ©2004 DC Comics; Still Life ©2004 Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate.]

ROBINSON: I’m counting on my genes. My great-great-grandfather lived to be 116. And he didn’t die a natural death. He was shot by a jealous husband. Okay, I made up the last part, but the rest is true!

11th-Hour Addendum: In June 2004, as this issue was going to press, Jerry Robinson received word that he had been elected to the Will Eisner Hall of Fame.

Congrats, Jerry—you richly deserve it!

“You Don’t Know If You Can Do Something Unless You Try It!”

33

JERRY ROBINSON Checklist [The following is based primarily on information provided by Jerry G. Bails from his online Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books, which can be accessed online at www.nostromo.no/whoswho/. Other information was provided recently by Jerry Robinson. Additions or corrections are invited, either to Jerry or through Alter Ego. Names of features which appeared both in comic books with that title and in other comics are generally not italicized below—e.g., Batman. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) inks only; (w) = writer. Re comic strips: (d) = daily; (wk) = weekly (i.e., Sunday only).]

Name: Jerry Robinson (b. 1922) (artist, writer)

dozens of countries.]

Pen Names: Jerry Scott, Rejeog (both shared with George Roussos)

Comics in Other Publications: Theatre Life (w/a) 1980 in Playbill

Education: Columbia University, NYC

Colorist: DC 1939-41 (a couple of Batman stories and a few covers)

Influences: Mort Meskin

Letterer: DC 1942 (on his own art); Lev Gleason (ditto) 1941

Member: International Museum of Comic Art (Board, 1991); Association of American Editorial Cartoonists (past president); National Cartoonists Society (past president); Overseas Press Club; Society of Illustrators

COMIC BOOK CREDITS (MAINSTREAM U.S. PUBLISHERS): Better/Pines/Standard/Nedor: Black Terror (a) 1948; Fighting Yank (a) 1948-49; Wonderman (p) 1948 [NOTE: all three penciled & inked in partnership with Mort Meskin]

Commercial Art: Advertising Books (as Writer): The Comics: An Illustrated History of Comic Strip Art (1974); The World’s Greatest Comics Quiz (1978, paperback); Skippy and Percy Crosby (1978); The 1970s: Best Political Cartoons of the Decade (1981) Musical Theatre: Astra: A Comic Book Opera (co-author)

Jerry Robinson’s cover for Batman #14 (Dec. 1942-Jan. 1943). [©2004 DC Comics.]

Juvenile Books (as Artist): Annie Oakley (1962); Atomic Energy (1969); Hurricane Luck (1968); Golden Book Encyclopedia (1969); Little Sure Shot (1962); Magic Tunnel (1964/1968); Phantom Brakeman (1967); Science Teasers (1966) Articles (as Writer): Children’s Digest (April 1972 – “From Cave Drawing to Comic Strip”) Fine Arts: Photography Teacher: School of Visual Arts, 1950-59 (writing & cartooning); Pratt Institute (1 year, 1960s) Paperback Illustrations: 1964-68 Honors (partial): Top honor at International Humor Festival, Italy (1965); citations & Medal (Far East command) for service to U.S. Defense Dept.; Best Comic Magazine Artist, NCS (1965); Best Syndicated Panel, NCS (1963); Best Special Feature, NCS (1967); Best Comic Book Artist, NCS (1956, first year of award), Milton Caniff Lifetime Achievement Award, NCS (2001); Presidente Senato, highest award of Italian Senate (1967); Small Business Foundation Editorial Cartoon Award (1979); Bob Clampett Humanitarian Award (San Diego Comic-Con); Ink Pot Award (San Diego Comic-Con); Premio Grand Guinigi (career award, Lucca, Italy); Satyr Award (Triennial Aritas Satira, Smarje, Solvenia); Comic Book Marketplace Lifetime Achievement Award; American Association of Comic Book Collectors Cartoonists Hall of Fame Award (San Diego Comic-Con) Syndicated Credits: Flubs & Fluffs (wk)(w/a) 1964-84, (d)(w/a) 1981; Jet Scott (wk/d)(a) 1953-55; Kerry Drake (d/wk)(ghost p) 1950s; Life with Robinson (d)(w/a) 1977-95; The Lone Ranger (d/wk)(ghost p) 1950s; Still Life (1961-1977)(a) [NOTE: Jerry is currently the president and editorial director of Cartoonists International, Inc., and of Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate, which syndicates the work of 550 leading cartoonists in

DC (incl. AA & Imprints): Alfred (a) 1944-46; Batman (a) 1942-46/1949 – last credit reported by inker Sy Barry; Batman (i/bkgd) 1939-41; Batman Gallery (illustration)(a) 1992; covers (a) 1942-46; fillers (a) 1943-44; Superman (illustration)(a) 1948; Vigilante (p) 1948

Dell & related: Bat Materson (a) 1960-61; Lassie (a) c. 1957-59 EC Publications: Mad (w/a) 1970 Feature/Crestwood/Headline/Prize: crime (p) 1948; Know Your America (p) 1947; romance (a) 1947-48; Young Romance (a) 1947-48 Harvey & related/precursors: adventure (a) 1945; All-New Comics (a) 1945; crime (a) 1945; Fangs of the Panther (a) 1945; Green Hornet (p) 1945-46 Ken Crossen/Spark & related: Atoman (a) 1946; Boy Champions (a) c. 1944-46 Lev Gleason & precursors: Daredevil (a) 1948; London (w/a) 1941-42 Marvel/Timely & related: Adventures into Weird Worlds (a) 1950s; All-True Crime (a) 1951-52; Amazing Detective Cases (a) 1951; Astonishing (a) 1952; Battle Action (a) 1952; Battle Brady (a) 1952; Battle (a) 1952; Battlefront (a) 1952; Battleground (a) 1952; Bible Tales for Young Folk […Young People] (a) 1953-54; covers (a) 1951-53; Crime Can’t Win (a) 1952; Crime Cases Comics (a) 1952; Crime Exposed (a) 1952; Girl Confessions (a) 1953-54; Justice Comics (a) 195253; Love Adventures (a) 1951; Love Romances (a) 1953-54; Lovers (a) 1949, 1952-53; Man Comics (a) 1951; My Own Romance (a) 1953; Mystery Tales (a) 1953, 1956; Mystic (a) 1951; Secret Story Romances (a) 1953; Stories of Romance (a) 1956; Strange Tales (a) 1953; Suspense (a) 1953; Tales of Justice (a) 1956; Uncanny Tales (a) 1952-53; War Adventures (a) 1952; War Comics (a) 1953; Western Thrillers (a) 1955 Novelty/Curtis: Target and the Targeteers (p) (for Bob Wood) 1940 Quality: The Sniper (a) c. 1942; X of the Underground (a) 1942 Western/Whitman/Gold Key: Dear Nancy Parker (a) 1963; Rocky and His Fiendish Friends (w/a) 1962-63; The Twilight Zone (a) 1954

34

In Memoriam

Gill Fox (1915-2004)

“A Cartoonist to the Very End”

by Jim Amash I became aware of Gill Fox’s comic book work in the mid-1970s, when I read the second volume of Steranko’s History of the Comics. As Steranko revealed, Gill was Jack Cole’s editor on “Plastic Man,” Lou Fine’s editor on “The Ray” and “Black Condor,” Reed Crandall’s editor on “Blackhawk”— and he worked with Will Eisner, too.

Eisner interviewed Gill for the short-lived Will Eisner’s Quarterly in 1985, but their focus was Lou Fine. Even as late as 2001, when I came to work for Alter Ego, there had been no real Gill Fox interview.

When Roy and I first discussed interviews, I told him I had to talk to Gill Fox. Like Steranko, I wanted to reveal the personalities of creators who had previously been known only as names in books (when they even got credit). Gill’s career lasted nearly seventy years, and he deserved far more attention than he had received.

Gill proved to be a great interview subject, with an amazing memory and a terrific sense of humor. He was proud of his accomplishments, but was occasionally self-deprecating. He had a strong sense of history and a love for all phases of the cartooning business; I have never met a person who loved the business and the people in it more than Gill Fox. He was just as interested in other artists’ careers as he was his own.

His own career was fascinating. He began as an opaquer for Fleischer Studios in 1936, working on the Popeye and Betty Boop cartoons. After losing his job during an artists’ strike (which he helped lead), Gill needed a source of income. “Word was beginning to come in about a strange publication called comic books. One guy told me you could get paid $5 a page, and that was great money.”

Gill’s comic book career started at the Comic Magazine Company, Inc., run by William Cook. He gravitated to National Comics (now DC), then owned by Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson. It was there that Gill met his life-long friend, writer/artist Creig Flessel.

Gill’s first cover graced Keen Detective Funnies #8, published for July 1938 by Centaur Publications. He hated the job he did, and I had to twist his arm before he agreed to let A/E reprint it. After a few stories and a disagreement with editor Lloyd Jacquet, Gill secured employment at the Harry “A” Chesler shop, and found himself in a room with many future stars: Charlie Biro, Bob Wood, Jack Cole, Fred Schwab, and Paul Gustavson, among others. “You just can’t believe the talent that was in that room!” he told me.

After Chesler closed the studio down, Gill ventured over to Quality Comics, run by publisher “Busy” Arnold and editor Ed Cronin. Gill immediately created the “Wun Cloo” feature for them, and Cronin was so impressed that he hired Gill as an assistant editor.

It was a major turning point in Gill’s life. He learned the ins and outs of producing comic books, inking Cronin’s covers while maintaining his freelance work. At one point, Arnold told Gill to help Will Eisner on The Spirit feature. He drew backgrounds and wrote several weeks of

Gill Fox, age 19, as a Fleischer animator—and his oft-reprinted cover, done just a couple of years later, for Quality’s Police Comics #1 (Aug. 1941), the comic that introduced Jack Cole’s “Plastic Man” to the world. Gill drew the first Plas-spotlighting cover of Police , too—issue #5. [Police #1 cover ©2004 DC Comics.]

continuity for the daily strips. It was during this time that Cronin left Quality, and Gill was promoted to editor. He edited the Quality line during its most important years, though he modestly gave “Busy” Arnold most of the credit.

Company policy dictated that the editor draw all the covers, so Gill modified his cartoony style to a more realistic one. He admitted it was a tough transition: “Looking back, I’m amazed I got so far into straight stuff.” When I asked how he felt about trying to emulate Lou Fine’s work on the covers while Fine was drawing interior stories, Gill said, “I never thought about it, and I would have frightened myself into total paralysis if I had.” Gill greatly admired Fine and his work, and they remained close friends until the latter’s untimely death in 1971.

Gill also drew the early Firebrand and Plastic Man covers for Police Comics. Already a fan of his friend Jack Cole’s work, Gill was impressed

by Cole’s artistic, creative development of Plastic Man. Gill was an editor, a freelancers’ friend, and a fan, but not necessarily in that order.

This 1940-43 period was personally and professionally one of the happiest times of Gill’s life. Gill and his new bride Helen socialized with other Quality creators: Jack Cole, Alex Kotzky, John Belfi, Tony DiPreta, Lou Fine, and their spouses. His latest creation, “Poison Ivy,” became very popular, and, had it not been for World War II, would have made it into newspaper syndication.

Drafted into military service, he became a cartoonist for a camp paper in Mississippi, drawing the Bernie Blood strip and a famous cartoon warning soldiers about venereal disease. Gill was shipped overseas in December 1944, and fought in the Battle of the Bulge. He was working in Intelligence for G-2 when sportswriter Paul Paris got Gill and himself jobs at Stars and Stripes.

Honorably discharged in 1945, Gill returned to Quality Comics as a freelancer on features such as Torchy and Candy, but he harbored greater ambitions. His dream—to work for the famed art service of Johnstone and Cushing—became reality in 1952. Working alongside artistic greats as Stan Drake, Elmer Wexler, Creig Flessel, and Dik Browne, Gill left comic books, never to return. It was a sad day for him when Johnstone and Cushing folded in the mid-1950s, but by then Gill

In Memoriam

35

had attained another of his goals: newspaper syndication.

Gill’s newspaper strip work included Bumper to Bumper, Jeanie, Wilbert (done in the Hank Ketcham style), and assisting Dik Browne on the early Hi and Lois Gill, seen here circa 1999-2000, holds strips. His big break in up two of his classic Quality covers— but was proudest of his political syndication came when he took cartoons, such as the one at right. over the Side Glances panel in Thanks to Jon Berk for the photo.

1962, which he drew for [Art ©2004 Estate of Gill Fox.] twenty years. Meanwhile, he had other accounts, which ranged from clip service work to advertising to ghost work for various cartoonists. His amazing ability to switch styles made him a sought-after commodity.

Gill once said that there were nine phases of cartooning: syndicated strips, comic books, gag panels, advertising, illustration, animation, caricature, sports, and political cartooning, and while he had done them all, the last was the most important to him. Having drawn some political cartoons for The Paris Post in World War II, Gill desperately wanted to make a career out of it. In 1990, he got his wish when he began working for The Connecticut Post. Gill later cartooned for The Fairfield Citizen News until a stroke forced him to retire.

I talked to Gill after I heard of his illness, and found a man still positive about life. He said, “A week before this happened, I had finally decided to retire. If I hadn’t made that decision, this would be harder for me to handle. But I’m going to be okay. I’m going to beat this.” Sadly,

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he couldn’t. He once told me, half kiddingly, half seriously, “My mission in life is not to die!” I wish he could have fulfilled that mission.

Following our interview, we became good friends and kept in close touch. Anytime I needed to fact-check something, I went to Gill, and he usually supplied the correct answer. He was supportive of my career, and tried to get me work on more than one occasion. He invited me to come and stay with him, and like a damn fool, I didn’t take him up on it in time. He wanted me to meet his friends and fellow cartoonists Orlando Busino, Joe Ferris, and Jerry Marcus. I became friends with Orlando and with Gill’s daughter Donna, both of whom made me feel like part of their families.

I loved the man. He never held back his feelings about anything, whether the subject was politics (he was definitely a conservative), the comics business, his war experiences, or our private lives. Every conversation was informative, delightful, and full of laughter. Gill claimed that he was tight with a dollar. If so, he was generous with everything else in his life, and I was a lucky recipient of that benevolence. I couldn’t thank him enough for all that he was to me.

We lost a great man when Gill Fox died. He was a mentor to young cartoonists. Behind the scenes, he helped scores of people get and keep jobs. There was no envy of others in his heart; he always delighted in the good fortunes of his friends and fellow cartoonists. He’d do anything to help a friend, and dearly loved his family.

Gill was a marvelous raconteur with a steel-trap mind that held the memories and history of his beloved profession. He was an inspiration to others because he never let anything get him down. A keen observer of humanity, he loved people, and nothing gave him more joy than making them laugh. A couple of months before his passing, Gill won an award for his political cartoons from The New England Newspaper Association. A cartoonist to the very end, he was admired and loved by all who knew him.

Monthly! The Original First-Person History– published by Robin Snyder

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SOLD OUT

37 At the time, I imagined “PAM” was Patrick A. Masulli, who was listed in Charlton comics as editor.

I based the conclusion on Masulli’s initials and on his having signed a Fightin’ Five cover inked by Rocco Mastroserio. But Jim Vadeboncoeur, the sly ol’ devil, knew the truth all along. The one with the biggest comic collection wins!

EDITOR’S INTRO: Above is a spanking-new drawing of our masked mascot (“maskot”?) Alter Ego—penciled by Jason Millet (who’s done work for Marvel, Wizards of the Coast, Major League Baseball, and ad agencies) and inked by Scott Goodell (artist for Rock and Roll Comics, etc., and most recently for Moonstone Books’ Slamm!).

Thanks, guys—especially since we’re paying you off in all the copies of A/E you can eat! [Art ©2004 Jason Millet & Scott Goodell; Alter Ego TM & ©2004 Roy & Dann Thomas.]

Alas, however, it seems we still haven’t caught up on our “five-issuesafter” policy, since we only had letters this time for mail re A/E #32, not #32-34, as we’d hoped. Maybe next time….

By sheer coincidence (no lie!), we also just happen to have a letter from Ron Harris, artist of such other past comics as Crash Ryan, The Young All-Stars, Alter Ego, et al., to lead off this month’s missives…

Hi, Roy— Naturally, life stopped until I’d read Alter Ego #32 cover to cover.

What a pleasure finally to see Alberto and Jim’s article in Italian artists in America. I could kick myself for not recognizing Antonio Canale, since I have a run (in reprint) of his Amok strips. To ease the embarrassment, I must say that “Tony’s Chan’s” [Canale’s pseudonym] Amok artwork was far less sophisticated than his incredible work for St. John. Still good stuff, though. Like many postwar Italian strips, Amok was set in the United States and featured many “genuine” American characters. Amok himself owed more than a little to The Phantom—another trait he shared with many postwar Italian strips.

I wasn’t too familiar with Enrico Bagnoli. I remember seeing an “Allagalla” page, but I never owned any early Planet Comics, so I’d never seen his work on “Futura.” Anyway, a splendid article and an important one. I’m certain more cross-Atlantic connections remain to be discovered.

The Burlockoff and Bellman interviews were a valuable addition to A/E’s growing record of the complex days of early comics. At last I know who drew Destination Moon! All these firsthand stories show how risky it is to credit a strip to a single artist.

I was a big fan of Pete Morisi’s Thunderbolt, and I was sorry to read of his passing. Though his artwork was somewhat simplistic by “modern” standards, its freshness and conviction always appealed to me.

Even back then, I recognized “PAM’s” debt to George Tuska, one of my early art heroes (I grew up swiping his Buck Rogers strips). Did you know that Morisi’s bald villain with the ape sidekicks was a knock-off of a Tuska villain in Buck Rogers? One point, though—I definitely remember “The Vengeance Squad” as having been written by Joe Gill.

Perhaps Pete wrote some and Joe the others?

One last Morisi factoid. Did you ever notice, how, Morisi tended to write, with lots, of extra commas? The editor (Dick Giordano, I suppose) finally began removing them, but only after the typewritten lettering was completed. So in every caption and balloon there were all those double spaces where someone had whited out the excess punctuation.

re:

Ron Harris Thanks, Ron. We always, like, to know, that stuff! And now, a note from Sam Burlockoff, who was one of #32’s twin interviewees: Dear Mr. Thomas: Even though our paths never crossed, I feel a special kinship with you. I wish to thank you for the wonderful work that you are doing promoting the comic book artists and writers with such reverence and respect in Alter Ego. When I read the articles in your magazine, it seems like only yesterday that was part of my life. I was very pleased to have my story told. Jim Amash did a super job, and besides that, I feel I found a friend.

I lost track of my friend Allen Bellman, and thanks to the interviews by Dr. Michael Vassallo and Jim Amash, we were reunited again.

Allen and I picked up where we left off many years ago, and we didn’t miss a beat. I wish to thank you for the generous number of copies of the issue you sent me to provide our friends and family the opportunity to read Alter Ego. Sam Burlockoff We don’t recall how many we sent, Sam—but however many it was, it wasn’t enough to pay you and Allen back for all the enjoyment you’ve given over the years. We’ve corresponded with Allen, as well, since #32.

He, too, was pleased with the coverage, and sent this piece of info for the general readership: Dear Roy, The “Tommy Tyme” page (page 6) shown with my interview was drawn by Tom Tomasch, who worked with me on Timely staff. This was his style, though it took a while for this to dawn on me.

Allen Bellman The esteemed Doc V., who interviewed you for A/E #32, sent us more Tomasch art, printed on the following page, Allen. His accompanying letter about #32 was too long to run in full here, so we hope he won’t mind our excerpting it to share his information: Roy, As usual, a great job on the combined Bellman and Burlockoff interviews!

Page 5 has an incorrect art caption on Allen’s first pro work for

38

[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

Timely. It was backgrounds for Syd Shores on Captain America, not for Carl Burgos on Human Torch.

#1-10 in a prized spot in what’s left of my collection, having recently donated some 30,000 comic books to Indiana University’s rare book library.

Also on p. 5, your editor’s note is unnecessary, as Allen states his brush with Vin Sullivan was before he started at Timely, and Vin’s bachelor party was April 6, 1940, which was before that time.

On p. 7 Allen states that his biggest early influence at Timely was an artist named Elmer (Tom) Tomasch.

Allen was incredulous that no one had ever heard of him. Well, Bingo—I found him! Here are two illustrations from Timely’s Miss America featuring the work of Elmer Tomasch! [NOTE: See one of those illos on this page. —Roy.]

Al Bellman was a good friend of my Dad’s. When I first found out that Al was an old-time Timely artist, I went crazy. I now have an original, hand-colored piece of art by him of The Patriot framed and hanging on my office wall. His style today is very reminiscent of 1940s Simon & Kirby.

Al is a hell of a nice guy, in addition to being a great talent, and I applaud you for giving him his due in #32.

Doc V. sent us a scan of this illustration by Elmer “Tom” Tomasch from Miss America, Vol. 1, #2 (Nov. 1944). The two illos he sent, he says, “are from the dawn of the girls’-magazine version of the comic.” So maybe Tomash was also the artist whom Vince Fago remembered, in A/E V3 #11, as being named “Thomas,” having a German accent, and drawing “Human Torch” stories? [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

On p. 12 the caption states that scripting was signed by “Elvey Jay,” and you mentioned that it probably wasn’t Funnies, Inc., owner Lloyd Jacquet. Well, that, in fact, is Lloyd himself, as he did use “Elvey Jay” as a pen name!

On p. 19 let me correct the order of drawing the “Jet Dixon” feature in Space Squadron: Tuska (#1), Roth (#2-4), and Bellman (#5-6, in the latter issue as Space Worlds). And hey, doesn’t that Bellman splash from #6 (“The Vengeance of X-1!”) look like the first pre-hero type monster? Someone get Tom Lammers on this! We may have found another prototype! Actually, “The Gool!” from Marvel Tales #93 would pre-date this. (Just kidding, folks! They’re not prototypes!)

Moving on, p. 25 had a typo, where “continuing the expense” should have read “continuing the suspense.”

And on p. 41 (in the letters section), the caption accompanying the Alfonso Greene splash from World of Fantasy #11 should read “April 1958,” not “1952.”

Blake Bell’s short Timely talk with Mart Nodell was very nice, and let me add that Nodell drew spot illos for Miss America while on staff. But Nodell’s mention of Joe Maneely in the bullpen was probably a misremembering. If anything, Maneely was only beginning to freelance in mid-1949, driving down from Philly to pick up scripts and driving back to Philly to draw them.

Our pleasure, Michael. Also in your letter, you shed new light, perhaps, on that legendary-but-did-itreally-happen 1961 golf game that led to Fantastic Four #1, and on the poker game that some say spawned Little Archie, both of which were mentioned in the Irwin Donenfeld interview back in A/E #26. Unfortunately, we had no room to print it here, but we plan to showcase it soon! See? Even though you were a producer on the first Batman movie a few years back, and are currently putting together a Shazam! film, you can’t get entirely away from comics!

A comment in #32’s “re:” section stirred regular FCA contributor (and Golden Age Fawcett artist) Marc Swayze to send in his own comments: Dear “Re:”— I’ve been afraid if I kept reading your stuff I’d get caught up in it… and here I am! Enjoyed the letter in Alter Ego #32 by Richard Kyle, his defense of Siegel and Shuster as having been “sort-of written off” in a previous issue.

Didn’t hurt much, having to skim over the sly jabs at the origin of Captain Marvel and the originality of C.C. Beck, but did get a little steamed up over: “Captain Marvel is really an astonishingly adept fusion of Superman and Slam Bradley.”

One man’s opinion, of course.

Here’s another… mine: The only “fusion” that might be connected with the origin of Captain Marvel was as Beck stated in 1941… the features of several film stars, not any one in particular. The Beck comic book art style was the result of the influence from the comic strips he grew up with… Barney Google, Andy Gump [The Gumps], Mutt and Jeff, et al… not an echo of anyone’s.

Dr. Michael J. Vassallo We appreciate the corrections, Doc. Looks like our typing finger was seriously out of whack that day. We also wanna mention that we have a letter by you and another reader on the finding of the original art for Two-Gun Kid #42 (some of which was printed with your Maneely retrospective back in A/E #28) that we plan to feature, as soon as we can find room! Now, a bit more on Allen Bellman from a family friend— onetime comics writer and current film producer Michael Uslan: Dear Roy: It’s been way too long since we last spoke, so let me begin by saying I read every issue of Alter Ego and enjoy it monthly from cover to cover. I still have my original issues of [Vol. 1]

Michael Uslan

Allen Bellman did this Patriot drawing for Michael Uslan a few years back. Nice to see Allen drawing again, as well as snapping photographs! [Art ©2004 Allen Bellman; Patriot TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

I’d like to see a picture of “Slam Bradley,” one of Joe’s originals. Also some of those early “Superman” strips with the “shading.” Interesting. Show us some.

Keep up what you’re doing. “Re:”— you and Richard Kyle. I applaud you

re:

39

Here, courtesy of Richard Steinberg and Chris Haas, are two unpublished pieces of work by Irv Steinberg. (Above:) Art from an unfinished 1954 espionage page.

(Right:) A romance page, done as a sample for Quality Comics in 1953. [Art ©2004 Estate of Irv Steinberg.]

both. To quote the late Wendell Crowley, “If it weren’t for people like you, there’d be no history.”

Marc Swayze C.C. Beck’s talent needs no defending, of course—nor was Richard Kyle attacking it, Marc. Rich was actually talking about the Captain Marvel concept, rather than the art—though his point is still, of course, debatable. We showed the “shading” in the first “Superman” story, in Action Comics #1, as well as Slam Bradley, on p. 19 of this issue’s flip side.

Next, a welcome note from Ron Goulart, who just happens to be a popular science-fiction and mystery novelist as well as a comics historian: Roy: As usual, I enjoyed the latest issue. The original artist on “Futura” was a fellow calling himself “Chester Martin.” At the same time, he was also doing illustrations and an occasional cover for the Planet Stories pulp. Some years ago, artist Murray Tinkelman told me he knew the guy and that Chester Martin was a pen name. I don’t recall if he mentioned his real name.

Ron Goulart And we always kick ourselves later for not askin’, huh, Ron? But thanks for the info!

Now, forwarded to us by FCA editor P.C. Hamerlinck is this note from Richard Steinberg, son of Fawcett artist Irv Steinberg, who was featured in #32: Dear P.C.: I’m very pleased and grateful for the fine job you did in your article on my father, artist Irv Steinberg. One question—you wrote that my father assisted on the Don Fortune comic book—is this something you discovered, or are you making a presumption based on educated guesswork? I was unaware that my father worked on this title.

By the way, I have some additional sample artwork, never before published, that my father did. One piece is a full-page pencil job, probably for a Quality romance title (no dialogue), and the other is a gorgeously-rendered opening page for an espionage-type story inspired, no doubt, by T-Man and perhaps by Milton Caniff’s work. I believe my

father did not do that page for anyone in particular. I would date the latter page, boldly inked with great chiaroscuro, to 1954, as I remember his doing the page at home. The romance page was probably done a bit earlier, circa 1953. I found it in the same portfolio containing the Spy Smasher cover art and the Captain Midnight sample page that were printed in A/E #32.

I also have amazing pulp art done by my father—don’t know for which stories or magazines.

Richard Steinberg And we’re proud to print that comics artwork here, Richard—with the pulp art to follow. Thanks. (Sheesh, we keep having to thank people. But then, Alter Ego is a cooperative venture, and couldn’t exist without the generosity of fans and pros alike.)

Tim Barnes wrote to “Comic Crypt” keeper Michael T. Gilbert with both a correction and some comments on MTG’s piece in #32: Mike, You’ve no doubt already heard this from others, but I thought I’d point it out to show that I pay attention to your articles in Alter Ego. In the second installment of “Horror’s Missing Link” (A/E #32), you credit Jeff Jones with all three of the Web of Horror covers. Number 3 is in fact by Bernie Wrightson (I seem to remember him saying in an interview that it was his first published painting). It was used as the cover to Omnibus Publishing’s The Berni Wrightson Treasury (1975).

It’s just that the subject matter of Wrightson’s usual output suggests that he’s someone you shouldn’t upset…

I’m continuing to enjoy your articles—you always seem to find unusual/obscure/interesting curios from the history of comics. The Kurtzman stuff was fascinating. And I’ve just picked up A/E #35 with the unpublished ACG covers. Stories from ACG (with writer credits featuring unlikely names such as Zev Zimmer) and the Archie Jaguar/Fly stories drawn by John Rosenberger were some of the first and most fondly-remembered comics from my youth (in cheap pulpish British b&w reprint mags).

Tim Barnes

40

[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

Canadian cartoonist Ronn Sutton (whose work appeared in A/E #36) wrote to tell us pretty much the same thing, Tim. Gracias to both of you. (Gotta find some more synonyms for “Thanks!”) And here’s some skinny about The Green Lama and his possible creators, from reader Dennis Roy: Dear Roy, I read with interest Jerry Bails’ guest editorial in A/E #32, particularly his mention that writer/publisher Ken Crossen “was using the talents of Horace Gold to produce many of the ‘Green Lama’ stories.”

What wasn’t clear in that sentence, which casts doubt on whether or not Crossen created the character alone or with the help of Gold, was whether Jerry was suggesting Gold functioned as a “ghost writer” for Crossen. Green Lama first appeared in the pulp magazine Double Detective (April 1940) as by “Richard Foster,” in a story usually attributed to Crossen. Subsequent stories appeared in the magazine through 1943.

From Dec. 1940 through March 1946, Green Lama moved on, first to Prize Comics, then to his own comic book for eight issues. It’s clear from what Jerry says that these later comics were mainly (if not entirely) the work of other writers like Ken Jackson and Horace Gold, but is there any actual evidence that Gold may have written the earlier pulp stories? Key to the question of creator credits, of course, is whether Gold actually ghost-wrote the first story. Despite his not having appeared anywhere during 1947, The Green Lama managed to make a comeback in eleven half-hour radio dramas broadcast on the CBS network in June through August of 1948.

fiction. He began his career by contributing stories to Astounding Stories. Then, like Jack Schiff, Gold spent time toiling as an assistant editor under Mort Weisinger for Ned Pines’ science-fiction pulp line: Thrilling Wonder Stories, Startling Stories, and Captain Future. He created Galaxy in 1950. Gold was extremely agoraphobic due to his wartime experiences, refusing to leave his apartment, editing Galaxy and conducting business mostly by telephone.

I’m surprised more hasn’t been written about the connection between sf pulps and the comics, in particular DC. In addition to DC editors Weisinger and Schiff, and Julius Schwartz (who began his career as an sf writers’ agent), pulp sf alumni like Edmond Hamilton, Otto Binder, and Alfred Bester were all major figures in shaping DC in the ’50s and early ’60s. The Silver Age Green Lantern Corps is clearly inspired by E.E. Smith’s Lensman books, and The Legion of SuperHeroes was at least partially influenced by Jack Williamson’s sciencefiction classics The Legion of Space and The Legion of Time. Will Murray would be the ideal candidate to author such an article.

Dennis Roy And if he ever feels like tackling that weighty subject, Denny, you can bet we’ll print it! Thanks (there’s that word again!) for both suggestion and info. And here’s more of the latter, from reader Jack Oster:

I also found curious the fact that Jerry identifies Horace Gold as “a friend of Jerry Siegel’s, who… assisted him by supplying plots for early ‘Superman’ adventures.” Can Jerry Bails be unaware that Horace Gold served as founding editor and guiding light of Galaxy Science Fiction in the 1950s?

Or did he just assume that information wasn’t relevant?

Along with John L. Campbell, Gold is considered one of the major forces in shaping magazine science-

Dear Roy, A few observations re Alter Ego #32 (another excellent issue): The character on the cover of Punch Comics #1, identified on p. 14 as Captain Glory, bears no resemblance to the character as described by Jeff Rovin in his Encyclopedia of Superheroes. Could this character perhaps be Captain Courage?

Also, Flyboy is identified as a Ziff-Davis title which ran for two issues in 1952, both of which are pictured in the Gerbers’ PhotoJournal Guide.

However, the Overstreet Price Guide claims there were four issues. Not sure which is correct.

Jake Oster Neither are we, Jake. Any responses out there?

In the FCA section of A/E #32, we reprinted the strip “Captain Marble Flies Again” from a 1954 parody comic, and wondered in print what those Germanically-lettered words on the splash meant. We received a couple of answers, this one from Dwight Decker:

Horace L. Gold, with two incarnations of The Green Lama. (Left:) The pulp version, in a V.E. Pyle interior illo from the May 1940 issue of Double Detective (we presume), as reprinted in Adventure House’s excellent pulpmag reprint series, High Adventure. (Right:) A Mac Raboy-drawn page from Crossen/Spark’s later comic book super-hero version, in The Green Lama #3 (March 1945). [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Roy— The German word on the splash of the “Captain Marble” strip looks like something lettered in the old Gothic German font (“Fraktur”) by someone who isn’t familiar with

re:

41

it, so a couple of letters are a little ambiguous.

Unless I’m misinterpreting the letters myself, as best I can make out, it’s “Ein Vogeleidechse!” Or, “A bird-lizard!” (Ein + A/Vogel = Bird + Eidechse = Lizard.)

Next question: what’s a bird-lizard? It isn’t in any of my dictionaries, and a search online didn’t turn up anything. Yet I’d have to admit a probability that it came from somewhere, because whoever lettered it correctly lettered that “ch” as a ligature, rather than as a

Raymond Miller’s ID sheet for the cover of Alter Ego #32—which is repro’d small at left, just so you can get your bearings. [Art ©2004 Dick Giordano; heroes TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

separate “c” and “h.” If it weren’t for that, I’d guess it was simply a nonsense term made up on the spot to lend atmosphere… but then I have to wonder what the point would be. You might need a native German on this one!

Dwight Decker And we got one, Dwight—Friedel Benson, the wife of John Benson, EC fan who was interviewed by Bill Schelly in some recent issues. She said pretty much the same thing you did, as we recall. John, by the way, has a splendid new book out on the unique romance comics of the St. John company; see ad in A/E #38.

Round Up the Usual Corrections: Eddy Zeno says the uncredited penciler of Superman #123 art on p. 8 in A/E #32 is Dick Sprang, and he’s “99.3% sure the inker is Stan Kaye,” whose inks may have made the art look as if Curt Swan penciled it. We’d been all through that some issues back with Delmo Walters, Jr., who likewise wrote to chide us: “It’s Sprang and Kaye.

Case closed!” You talked us into it, guys!

Seth Powell, son of artist Bob Powell, contacted us to inform us: “As you may know, [my father] changed his name to Powell from ‘Pawlowski’ (not ‘Pulowski’ or other spellings) around the time he was in the Army Air Corps.” Good to know. We plan an interview with Seth, and possibly his brothers, about their dad in a near-future issue. He was a real talent!

Hames Ware tells us that one name we took in vain in #31 should’ve been rendered as Victor “Prezio,” not “Perzio.” He goes on: “Of course everyone who read my letter [in #31] knew it was Graham Ingels, not “Fred” (??), who was redrawing all that Battefield art at Pines.” Thanks, Hames—our typo, and we’re looking for a spot to run more of your and Jim Vadeboncoeur’s “Great Unknowns” series. You’ve got some real goodies coming up!

Finally—we received several responses to our challenge to name each and every 1940s Timely super-hero depicted on Dick Giordano’s fabulous cover of A/E #32 (though some folks noticed that the arrangement is slightly different on Dick’s pencil layout on the contents page—because Roy asked Dick to have the Torch, Cap, and Namor holding “photos” of The Blazing Skull, The Patriot, and The Fin, respectively). Most of those who tried got most if not all of them right, but we admit a few ID’s were tough even for Roy—and even Dick had to go back and look at the photocopies we’d sent him to work from! We’re sending a gratis copy of this issue to each of the hard-working respondees listed below—and we hope we didn’t miss anybody.

John Schaefer tried his hand, even if, the first time around, he missed Father Time (one of Stan Lee’s great early creations—how did

The Man think up all those original names like Father Time and Jack Frost?) and sent a follow-up note later—adding the fact that the original Black Widow was a blonde, not a brunette. Chet Cox made a good stab at naming the heroes, too—as did Dennis Hager, whose letter about what Roy’s The Invaders and All-Star Squadron meant to him (and taught him) warmed the cockles of Ye Ed’s heart. (He also pointed out that Rock-Man was also called the “Underground Secret Agent,” or “USA” for short.)

But the kewpie doll just has to go to longtime fan/expert Raymond Miller, who actually sent us a tracing of the laid-out “photos” from the cover, with the heroes’ names in the proper spaces.

“I know I won’t be the first,” wrote Ray, “but what the heck, it’s only 37¢—and I did identify 30—not 29!” That’s just ’cause we can’t count worth a darn, Ray. We’ve reprinted Raymond’s layout on this page. Hope you can read all the names! (But even he missed Blue Diamond, later a member of Marvel’s Liberty Legion, who was pictured only in the pencil layout inside, over at the extreme top right, because he got cropped off the printed cover!)

Just in case they don’t turn out 100% readable on Ray’s key, they are: (behind main heroes) Fiery Mask, The Witness, Miss America, The Thunderer (a.k.a. The Black Avenger), Citizen V, Super Rabbit, Hurricane (a.k.a. Mercury), Black Marvel; (on table) The Fin, The Angel, Rock-Man (a.k.a. Underground Secret Agent), The Challenger, The Defender, Red Raven, Silver Scorpion, Major Liberty, The Patriot, Father Time, The Destroyer, Namora, Marvel Boy (#1), Blazing Skull, Black Widow, The Whizzer, The Vision, Jack Frost, Blonde Phantom. And, like we said, Blue Diamond is off to the right of Hurricane, on the contents page/pencil version.

Now, just room to say—send any comments and corrections and spare artwork to: Roy Thomas 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135

Fax: (803) 826-6501 e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com

Oh, and don’t forget—still more Julie Schwartz coverage (plus Gil Kane and Russ Heath!) coming up in A/E #40!

Submit Something To Alter Ego! Alter Ego is on the lookout for items that can be utilized in upcoming issues: • Convention Sketches and Program Books • Unpublished Artwork • Original Scripts (the older the better!)

• Photos • Unpublished Interviews • Little-seen Fanzine Material We’re also interested in articles, article ideas, or any other suggestions... and we pay off in FREE COPIES of A/E. (If you’re already an A/E subscriber, we’ll extend your subscription.) Contact: Roy Thomas, Editor 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135 Fax: (803)826-6501 • E-mail: roydann@ntinet.com

Submission Guidelines Submit artwork in one of these forms (in order of preference): 1) Clear color or black-&-white photocopies.

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44

By

(c) mds

[Art & logo ©2004 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2004 DC Comics]

[FCA EDITOR’S NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Comics. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (CMA #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. Upon leaving the service in 1944, and after drawing tales of Mr. Scarlet and Ibis the Invincible, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for the Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last time, Marc spoke of his

Annoyance… puzzlement…. whatever the expression, Captain Marvel had worn it long before the original version of this story was published in True Confidences #3 (April 1950). [New art ©2004 Marc Swayze; other art ©2004 the respective copyright holders; Captain Marvel TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

admiration of the determination and hard work of artists C.C. Beck and Mac Raboy, and singer Bing Crosby. In this issue, Marc gives us a glimpse of what would’ve happened if Captain Marvel had appeared in Fawcett’s romance comics! —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

Thought provoking ... a most moving account recently seen about the fall, then rise again, of the fabulous comic book super-heroes of the 1940s. I wasn’t still around when the “rise again” period began, but it’s easy to remember the “fall.” It wasn’t nice. Very likely caused many a lovable hero to be abandoned along the wayside. Also some artists, some writers, some editors ... probably a few publishers ... and many, many faithful young readers.

It wouldn’t be quite fair to lay the blame on the super-heroes. They wouldn’t have left their readers. The readers left them. The vast, fickle segment of humankind that had kept them aloft and financially handsome issue after issue, year after year, had weakened ... faltered ... withered ... meaning they were reading something else!

It was those comic book romances ... that’s what they were reading, according to sales reports. Makes a person wonder why the super-heroes didn’t stand their ground and face the music.

Or gone with the tide ... joined up with the romances. Think of it! All those mystic forces busy patching up broken hearts and drawing lonely lovers closer!

It wouldn’t have been easy. The grim face of that favorite from the pages had changed very little throughout an entire career of overpowering evil. Any attempt to change it to one of arduous compassion ... might break something.

Captain Marvel in Fawcett’s popular romance comics? He could have played the part well, Marc Swayze suggests. Here, Marc has shoehorned him into the male lead in Sweethearts #108 (Feb. 1952). Maybe a super-hero who possessed the wisdom of Solomon could’ve been a bit more tactful? Special thanks to Marc’s granddaughter DeSha Tolar. [New art ©2004 Marc Swayze; other art ©2004 the respective copyright holders; Captain Marvel TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

“We Didn’t Know... It Was the Golden Age!”

45

CAPTAIN MOVIE ADVENTURES [Art ©2004 Marc Swayze; Capt. Marvel TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

Gene Kelly never had it so good! But of course, Cap doesn’t have to worry about being struck by lightning!

Captain Marvel—the World’s Mightiest Lover?

“This could be the beginning of a beautiful career!”

Or worse! Consider it from the drawing table. That facial expression was standard issue ... came with the tight suit and cape. Try to draw the super-hero with ... well, a friendly smile ... and you come up with him looking like something else. That is, nobody ever saw him looking like that, so they don’t recognize him. That could get you fired!

The truth of the matter is that the super-heroes simply did not fit in with the romance comics that were selling so well as the ’40s approached a close. Some may have stayed, but generally they had enjoyed their day ... and now it was time to move on.

All except one. There was one whose life in the comic books had seen him through such a conglomeration of adventures, whose moods and expressions had been so varied, the romances could never have become a problem. You know him. Fellow by the name of Captain Marvel!

For example, in “Duel at Sunset” in Cowboy Love #3 (Sept. 1949), Jack Lawrence had a mission to carry out ... a mission that threatened to alienate him from the only girl he ever loved. Captain Marvel could have played that part. When beautiful Gail Travis revealed she “couldn’t fight it any longer” ... and Jack responded with, “I ... I reckon I loved you from the start”... Yep, Captain Marvel could have brought it off, pardner.

When lovely Margaret Ames was strangely affected by the warm, dark eyes of Todd Donel, it could have been the eyes of the World’s Mightiest Mortal, playing Todd’s role. That was in “Invitation to Heartbreak” in Romantic Story #2 (Jan. 1950), when at last the winds of love blew fair and clear for Margaret, with Todd’s arms around her ... and her lesson learned ... it would be smooth sailing over the course of

The original Cap would never have sworn at Scarlett. Here’s CM in the finale from Gone with the Wind, which was released the same year (1939) that writer/editor Bill Parker and artist C.C. Beck concocted the Big Red Cheese. Maybe Marc could title this one: “Do the Rhett Thing!”

life forever! Can’t you just see Captain Marvel as Todd?

In “Legacy for Beth,” lead story in True Confidences #3 (April 1950), he would have been impressive as wonderfully handsome and tender Don Vickers when he blurted out his true feelings for Arlene Matthews and embraced her with a fervent kiss. Then, when her grasping avarice revealed itself eventually, and his love turned to Beth, it was a natural for the World’s Mightiest! And what a moment for Beth ... wrapped in arms that once had ripped train tracks from their foundations and tossed the locomotive aside!

Of course, it’s all in fun. The super-heroes were not created nor geared for the romances. Could Captain Marvel have survived them had he not been taken off the market at the time? Much has been made of his “human side” ... his exaggerated cartoony expressions and the like.

Could his flexible personality have carried him over the mushy stuff?

There is no intention here to refer to the romances disrespectfully. A lot of them were illustrated on this board and they are recalled fondly at our house. It’s easy to imagine that Captain Marvel would have enjoyed being in them, too. A beautiful girl in his arms ... a different one in each story? Don’t you know it!

It would have taken a lot of imagination, though ... by writers, artists, and editors. And, hey ... by the folks upstairs!

Think about that, now. Executive creativity!

[More Golden Age memories from Marc in our next issue.]

46

…And Then There Were None!

Charlton and the Remnants of the Fawcett Comics Empire–-–Part I

by Frank “Derby” Motler

Couch Potatoes In late 1953, Fawcett left the comic book business. The protracted lawsuit initiated by National/DC over the alleged copyright infringement by Captain Marvel in relation to Superman had swung against them, so they quit and deceased.

Evolution of a hero! The covers of both ashcan editions and the published version of what became the premier issue of Whiz Comics. Fawcett might’ve been better advised to use the dungeon scene on Whiz, too, rather than waving a red flag (complete with lightning bolt) in the DC bull’s face by having Captain Marvel tossing around a flivver, much as Superman had on the cover of Action Comics #1 a year and a half earlier. [©2004 DC Comics.]

Since early pronouncements in 1948, the anticomics campaign had been gaining momentum. Its finest hour would be televised, with the US Senate Subcommittee on the Judiciary to Investigate Juvenile Delinquency, held at Foley Square, New York, on April 21-22, with a reprise on June 4, 1954. Dr. Fredric Wertham, M.D., became the Subcommittee’s star witness, and his scathing anti-comics tirade Seduction of the Innocent (1954) was a “Book Of The Month Club” best-seller. Comics were in for a difficult time.

Under interrogation from the committee, William M. Gaines, publisher and owner of EC (Entertaining Comics), would shock the nation in a discussion of taste and a severed head on the cover of a comic book. Censorship was just around the corner, in the form of the “Comics Code Authority” (CCA), 1955. Television, a relatively new contraption, with its ability to capture nationally-broadcast shows in sight and sound and beam them right into your living room, was rapidly gaining popularity. It would turn the nation’s children from delinquent readers of four-color comics, into couch potatoes, almost overnight!

“S-H-A-Z-A-M!” Ironically, the seeds of Fawcett’s destruction had been sown when its very first newsstand comic appeared, featuring a superman hurling an automobile. It was Whiz Comics #2, dated February 1940. Its predecessor and “#1” issue was a pair of proof (“ashcan”) first editions, named Flash Comics and Thrill Comics. Both featured story and art of the same costumed hero, Captain Thunder. However, rival publishers DC and Better (a.k.a. Standard/Thrilling) were already in the process of

launching their own Flash Comics and Thrilling Comics, respectively, so the title was changed to Whiz at the last moment. History also decreed that the new Fawcett character be hastily renamed Captain Marvel, for reasons still not 100% clear, when he debuted in Whiz. Other super-hero titles from Fawcett soon followed, including Master Comics, Nickel Comics, Slam Bang Comics, Wow Comics, America’s Greatest Comics, Bulletman, Captain Marvel Jr., Spy Smasher, et al. By 1942, America was at war, and super-hero books were popular, with the hated Axis leaders, Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo, providing suitable opposition for these colorful fictional heroes and heroines.

Post-war, Fawcett expanded and diversified with titles such as Comic Comics, Hoppy the Marvel Bunny, George Pal’s Puppetoons, Lance O’Casey, Mary Marvel, and Nyoka the Jungle Girl. During 1946 Captain Marvel Adventures reached the unique position of being published every two weeks. By 1953, Fawcett had a large stable of comic books, which were published in four main areas: super-hero, western, romance, and—well, “miscellaneous,” for want of a better word. But the demise of its extremely popular and profitable super-hero line, centered around several comics starring Captain Marvel and his spinoffs, came with the settlement of the lawsuit in 1953, and one of the most successful publishers of comic books elected not to carry on. As Roscoe Fawcett, one of the owners, was quoted as saying in P.C. Hamerlinck’s Fawcett Companion: “Losing Captain Marvel kind-of took the heart out of the whole thing.” Marvel Family #89 (Jan. 1954), with its “And Then There Were None!” cover teaser, would prove the last Fawcett super-hero title, and soon the entire comics line was no more.

Under the Western Stars In the latter 1940s, Fawcett had begun producing a host of western comics, most of whose titles ended officially with the word “Western.”

These featured the fictional exploits of several real-life movie stars who thrived in the 1940s (or, in a couple of instances, in the 1930s!). The most

...And Then There Were None!

47

(Left and center:) A relatively late bloomer at Fawcett was Nyoka the Jungle Girl, inspired by a movie serial and launched in her own ongoing comic in 1945 after a 1942 Jungle Girl one-shot. After an experimental photo cover on Nyoka #25, that of #30 (April 1949), seen here, launched a tradition which lasted till the title’s Fawcett finale with #77 (June 1953). The artist of the interior page from #30 is uncertain, but researcher Hames Ware thinks it may be Art Pinajian.

At right is the gorgeous cover of CDC’s Nyoka #16 (April 1954), which continued the numbering of that company’s previously humorous Zoo Funnies. Art is

by Maurice Whitman, who drew many a lushly-illustrated “Kaänga” adventure for Fiction House’s Jungle Comics. [Nyoka TM & ©2004 AC Comics.]

famous comic book starring a “movie cowboy” was probably rival Dell’s Roy Rogers; but Fawcett managed to corral such iconic western-movie stars as Tom Mix (who had actually died in 1940, but lived on via radio, where he was portrayed by a voice actor) and Hopalong Cassidy. Actor William Boyd had played Cassidy in a series of low-budget films between 1934 and 1948. These had become an early TV phenomenon, due to the actor’s ownership and clever marketing of his old movies on the new medium. Under his own name, he would also star in his own Fawcett title, Bill Boyd Western, with no connection to the Hoppy character.

The Fawcett formula required a fullcolor, close-up photo of the star as the comic’s front cover, often with an action scene on the back cover. The interiors supplied three or more shoot-’emup stories, with one or two comedic shorts.

Fawcett also had a couple of more light-hearted western comics, starring sidekicks Gabby Hayes and Smiley Burnette; the former had a lengthy run.

In all, Fawcett published over twenty different western titles,

which also included at various times Lash LaRue, Monte Hale, Rocky Lane, Tex Ritter, Six-Gun Heroes, Young Eagle, et al. The first four of the preceding list spotlighted individual film stars—Six-Gun Heroes was an anthology featuring movie cowboys who also had their own titles— and only Young Eagle, about a Native American, was a total “original.”

Charlton generally continued the pre-existing numbering of those series it picked up from Fawcett.

The last Fawcett comics hit the newsstands in late 1953—and the first Charlton editions appeared with January 1954 cover dates, using up several photo covers from Fawcett’s inventory. The new stories and later covers were often drawn by Stan Campbell or Dick Giordano, both of whom achieved a pleasing style, with good likenesses.

(Left:) When it came to those Saturday-afternoon cowboy movies, singer/actor Tex Ritter wasn’t in a league with Roy Rogers, Hopalong Cassidy, or even Rocky Lane— though his warbling of “High Noon” in that 1952 film made a strong impact. Even so, his comics title lasted a healthy 46 issues at two companies between 1950-59!

Seen here is the Fawcett cover of Tex Ritter Western #1 (Oct. 1950). The Charlton run began with #21 (March 1954). (Center & right:) CDC’s covers for Lash LaRue, Monte Hale, and other westerns soon ceased using photos à la Fawcett. Monte Hale #87 (Oct. 1955) features a small snapshot, but Lash LaRue #51 (Nov. 1954) is a pure line-drawing by Stan Campbell. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Of the Fawcett western titles named in the above four paragraphs, all but Hopalong Cassidy, Tom Mix, and the already-canceled Smiley Burnette became Charlton titles. At least one lone “Hoppy” story appeared in the now-Charlton anthology comic Six-Gun Heroes. After that, however, DC rather than CDC

48

Charlton and the Remnants of the Fawcett Comics Empire–-– Part I singers Tommy Sands, Ricky Nelson, Pat Boone, and Jimmie Rodgers, in Sweethearts #39, 40, 42, 44, and 46.

Young Lovers #18 (May 1957), one of Charlton’s original titles, featured the indemand Elvis Presley special issue.

Other examples of this curious mix of photos and art can be found in Charlton’s My Little Margie #116 and Funny Animals #88-89. The latter bore the (very large!)

(Left:) With its fifth Fawcett issue (March 1947), Hopalong Cassidy sported a photo cover, as did most covers thereafter. subtitle “The Merry Hoppy had begun as a one-shot in 1943 and commenced regular publication in 1946. (Center:) A single “Hopalong Cassidy” Mailman,” and story popped up in the CDC-continued Six-Gun Heroes #24 (Jan. 1954), the first Charlton issue. (Right:) The DC cover for issue #88 “starred” actor Ray (April 1954) uses the same photo—and even yellow background—as had Fawcett’s #11 in 1947, though with two added line drawings.

Heatherton, whilst [©2004 the respective copyright holders.] actress Gale Storm was wound up with Hopalong Cassidy (then the most popular cowboy hero featured as the adventuresome Margie, with Charles Farrell as her after Roy Rogers and maybe Gene Autry). Cassidy #86 (Feb. 1954) was irascible father. Both were popular TV shows of the time; Margie had the first from DC; Gene Colan and later Gil Kane were two of the new been big on radio, as well. CDC otherwise abandoned the photo covers artists. Fawcett’s few remaining western series (e.g., Tom Mix and Rod of the Fawcett era, in favor of line-drawn ones.

Cameron, both of which had lasted into 1953) were not picked up by Charlton—or anyone else—though a “Cameron” story or two did wind up in the CDC version of Six-Gun Heroes. (In a bizarre twist, in the early 1970s DC would also acquire the rights to the much-loved Big Red Some of Fawcett’s most intriguing titles had been in the “miscellaCheese and relaunch him and the rest of the Marvel Family in a comic neous” group: a ménage of adventure, crime, horror, movie and TV titled Shazam!—though the series floundered after an indifferent run.) adaptations, sports, and humor.

Funny Peculiar!

Romance in Four Colors Romance comics represented another major genre published by Fawcett. One of the company’s innovations had been Negro Romance, which complemented its several earlier sports titles which had given prominence to major African-American athletes of the day.

Fawcett’s proficient romance titles contained occasional stories by Bob Powell, George Evans, Marc Swayze, Mike Sekowsky, Shelly Moldoff, and Bob McCarty to enliven interest. Sweethearts #120 (March 1953) featured the cult classic “I Lived in an Atom Blast Town,” whilst the preceding issue had sported a Marilyn Monroe photo cover.

Fawcett’s other long-running titles were Romantic Secrets, Romantic Story, and Sweetheart Diary. These four, plus Negro Romance and the western/romance hybrid title Cowboy Love, were transferred to the ownership of Charlton/CDC (Capital Distributing Co.).

As with the westerns, formerly-Fawcett romance material appeared in comics bearing the CDC symbol beginning in early 1954, with a few initial issues using photo covers. It proved an erratic start. Romantic Story was suspended for eight months after just five issues—Romantic Secrets started with “Vol. 2, #5,” ignoring its original Fawcett numbering— while Charlton’s Sweethearts premiered logically with #122, before an inexplicable switch to “Vol. 2, #23,” for the second. In 1957-58, Sweethearts spotlighted brief biographies of several popular stars, whose black-&-white photos were featured on those issues’ covers, surrounded by conventionally-drawn female admirers. Young heartthrob celebrities utilized in this way included actor Sal Mineo and

Pinhead and Foodini #1-4 (1951-2) had featured the adventures of two mischief making-puppets, adapted from an early TV series with hostess Doris Brown and puppeteer Morey Bunin. The puppet pair had appeared in an earlier series from Continental, and in Stanhall’s Jingle Dingle Christmas Stocking (1951).

All three issues of Fawcett’s Negro Romance had photo covers, as per #2 (Aug. 1950), seen here. CDC’s issue #4 (May 1955) was a reprint of Fawcett’s second issue, with a line-drawing cover; there was no fifth issue. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

...And Then There Were None!

49

The torch is passed! Frank Motler (who scanned most of the covers for this article; others were supplied by P.C. Hamerlinck & Roy Thomas) provided these covers of Romantic Story #22-23: the last Fawcett issue (Summer 1953)— and the first one published by CDC (May 1954). [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Fawcett’s Sweethearts had often boasted photo covers, such as 1953’s #120 with its “A-bomb” story—(and this page—perhaps penciled by Mike Sekowsky)—while in 195758 Charlton’s continuation utilized teenage idols, as seen on Vol. 2, #40. In 1957 Tommy Sands starred in a TV drama called The Singing Idol and had had a million-selling single, “Teenage Crush.” By the way, the high number of Fawcett’s Sweethearts is partly because the comic had started life in 1942 with a slightly different title: Captain Midnight! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Three CDC continuations: Romantic Story #25 (1954), Cowboy Love #28 (Feb. 1955, the first Charlton issue), and Romantic Secrets #17 (Aug. 1958). Cover art for the latter is by Leon Winik & Ray Osrin, a penciler-and-inker team at CDC from 1954 on. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

50

Charlton and the Remnants of the Fawcett Comics Empire–-– Part I Another Fawcett TV spin-off had been Captain Video, with gorgeous art

by George Evans, sometimes assisted by a youthful Al Williamson; this was based on the popular live-action show on the DuMont network.

Since the mid-1940s, Hoppy the Marvel Bunny had been the longeared hero of both Fawcett’s Funny Animals and his own title. He can be considered the non-human member of The Marvel Family, though he seldom actually appeared with Cap, Mary, and/or Junior. Some time before the slightly-renamed Funny Animals had been acquired by Charlton, Hoppy had been altered into a standard non-super-powered rabbit. Thanks to collector George Ramsey’s detective work (see Alter

There had also been Fawcett Movie Comics and Motion Picture Comics, which had adapted more than thirty popular films of the time, including now-collectible science-fiction adaptations of Destination Moon, The Man from Planet X, Fawcett’s Funny Animals had relied upon and When Worlds original characters like Hoppy the Marvel Collide. The first-named Bunny, Sherlock Monk, et al.—but CDC soon movie rendition would be veered off with a licensed TV property, as reprinted by Charlton, per the cover of its issue #88 (Jan. 1955).

The interior art is by Fred Ottenheimer. utilizing the original splash [©2004 the respective copyright holders.] page as the front cover, in Space Adventures #20 (March 1956). It would be recycled yet again in May 1958.

Sports comics had likewise been a staple at Fawcett, highlighting such stars as Don Newcombe, Larry Doby, Ralph Kiner, Roy Campanella, Joe Louis, Yogi Berra, and especially Jackie Robinson, the African-American who had broken the “color barrier” in baseball in 1947. The company also had published an anthology title, Thrilling Stories of Baseball.

There had been a good half dozen horror and crime titles from Fawcett, as well, including This Magazine Is Haunted and Strange Suspense Stories. Other esoteric titles had included Bob Swift, Boy Sportsman and Hot Rod Comics.

From this enterprising assortment (in addition to the later Destination Moon reprintings), Charlton elected to continue Don Winslow, Funny Animals, Nyoka, Ozzie and Babs, This Magazine Is Haunted, and Strange Suspense Stories. In later years, Charlton obtained the rights to Beetle Bailey, Rocky and Bullwinkle, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, Jungle Jim, The Phantom, Popeye, Quick Draw McGraw, Top Cat, and Yogi Bear from Gold Key and King, among other companies.

The humorous Ozzie and Babs (an “Archie” wannabe) was retitled TV Teens but continued the original Fawcett numbering.

After two issues, the numbering was changed, perhaps a reflection of US Post Office requirements to retain mailing privileges. TV Teens #6 (Jan. 1955) witnessed the introduction of Fawcett’s naval hero “Don Winslow,” before that title switched to its final feature, “Mopsy.” After his Charlton debut in TV Teens, Don Winslow of the Navy, once a popular fictitious hero on radio and TV and even in two movie serials, appeared as a three-issue series, preserving the Fawcett numbering. Mopsy, star of a newspaper comic strip, was a dark-haired flapper, ignorant of the effect she had on men and prone to risqué situations. As drawn by her creator, Gladys Parker, the effect is quite addictive.

Although her comic book appearances ceased at Charlton in July 1956, her comic strip continued until just before Parker’s death in 1966.

A montage of Fawcett titles that weren’t continued by Charlton: Pinhead and Foodini (#2, Sept. 1951)…

Captain Video (#1, Feb. 1950)… Fawcett Movie Comic (though its Destination Moon adaptation from #2 in 1950 was reprinted by Charlton—twice!)… Jackie Robinson (#1, no date, but late 1949/early 1950)… and Strange Suspense Stories #3 (Oct. 1952, with splash by George Evans). [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

...And Then There Were None!

51

(Left:) Charlton’s TV Teens #5 (Oct.-Nov. 1954) showcased “Ozzie and Babs,” who’d briefly had their own Fawcett title after debuting in Wow Comics. Art by Chic Stone, who’d earlier drawn for Fawcett and in the 1960s would work for Marvel, ACG, et al. (Center:) Photo cover of Fawcett’s Don Winslow #65 (Jan. 1951), the first issue of a two-part flying saucer story. (Right:) CDC’s Don Winslow of the Navy #71 (May 1955) boasted a strong cover by future Charlton (and DC) editor Dick Giordano. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

The two panels at left show the changes wrought on the Marvel Bunny when his stories were reprinted in Charlton’s Funny Animals. His costume became blue trimmed in yellow, with a red-trimmedin-yellow cape à la Captain Marvel Jr., and alternating yellow and blue stripes on his wrists. His name bounced back and forth between “Hoppy” and “Happy.” Art by Chad Grothkopf. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Ego #25), Hoppy has been documented as appearing in all CDC issues of Funny Animals, plus cameos on a few back covers of Atomic Mouse.

In several of these appearances, his super-hero capabilities were restored, although, to avoid upsetting the legal agreement between Fawcett and DC, he was slightly re-costumed (no lightning bolt, with his major color altered from red to blue) and rechristened “Happy the Magic Bunny.”

His magic word was changed from “Shazam!” to “Alazam!”

Charlton did not revive any of Fawcett’s super-heroes, even though only The Marvel Family were forbidden by the legal settlement from appearing in comics. Instead, the strangely resilient Blue Beetle was procured from the defunct Fox Features—or possibly from the Jerry Iger Studio which had produced that material for Victor Fox. Blue Beetle had had a checkered history at Fox—and that tradition continued at Charlton. Space Adventures #13-14 consisted mostly of reprinted Fox material, followed by a brief reprise in his own title, again largely reprint. Three further short-lived Charlton Blue Beetle series were destined to follow in the 1960s after DC and Marvel revived the superhero genre; the second of these was drawn by Steve Ditko, fresh from his work on The Amazing Spider-Man. The Charlton finale for Blue Beetle was in Charlton Bullseye #1, in 1985. The character now resides in DC’s huge inventory of super-heroes, and has even been a member of the Justice League.

The Toby Connection

One title that Charlton acquired had a truly convoluted development. Fawcett cancelled Gabby Hayes Western in January 1953 and transferred the rights to Toby, another comics company.

After a single Toby issue, Gabby Hayes Adventure Comics #1 (Dec. 1953), it was suspended again. In a deal, Toby agreed to copublish several titles with Charlton. The last Toby Comics were dated June and July 1955. The titles co-opted by Charlton were Gabby Hayes, Billy the Kid, Captain Gallant, Masked Raider, Ramar of the Jungle (a briefly popular TV property starring Jon Hall), Soldier and Marine Comics, plus Super Brat.

The revived Gabby Hayes #51 was coverdated December 1954, continuing the Fawcett numbering. Although published by Charlton, the indicias on the first two issues read: “Published bi-monthly

by Toby Press of Conn” (= Connecticut). The third revival issue switched to the Charlton imprint. This matches Soldier and Marine, a new title, which carried corresponding indicias and dates for issues #11 (really #1) and #12 (Feb. 1955).

Even the cover of Space Adventures #13 (Oct.-Nov. 1954) was mostly a reprint of cover art for Fox’s Blue Beetle #58 (July 1948), with some of the newspaper headlines altered—and the hero’s smile redrawn. [Blue Beetle TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]

52

Charlton and the Remnants of the Fawcett Comics Empire–-– Part I Roy Rogers’ resilient movie sidekick George “Gabby” Hayes bounced from Fawcett to Toby to Charlton.

Here’s the cover for CDC issue #52 (Feb. 1955). [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Super Brat had been the original creation of Mel Lazarus, who later wrote a humorous prose account of his time at Toby, The Boss Is Crazy, Too. For his CDC release, the Brat was renamed Li’l Genius. The errant egghead would also costar with the female of the species, Li’l Tomboy, in the double-trouble Li’l Rascal Twins (1957-60).

Captain Gallant, another TV adaptation, was sponsored by Heinz 57 foods, for which Toby is said to have provided the first issue. To promote the series, there was also a Foreign Legionnaire coloring book, plus a membership kit, with photos, card, and certificate. The TV series featured Buster Crabbe, star of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon movie serials, as the gallant Legionnaire; his son Cullen “Cuffy” Crabbe costarred. The first issue had at least two printings, although neither bore a price, and both issues sported only brief indicias. The interior art contains some superb work from Don Heck. Subsequent issues were released through CDC, with more mundane content.

Masked Raider was an original concept from Toby, which Charlton published in this joint venture. After five issues, “Billy the Kid,” which had been a Toby series for 29 issues, was introduced as its lead feature.

With the 9th issue (Nov. 1957), the comic itself was retitled Billy the Kid. Masked Raider was revived in 1958 for another seventeen issues (#14-30), many with sparkling art by Pete “PAM” Morisi, before it expired for good in June 1961.

Soldier and Marine Comics is a curious entry, in that it reprinted

Fawcett had Soldier Comics, as per this cover for #11 (Sept. 1953), its final issue.

Charlton/CDC broadened the franchise to Soldier and Marine, as seen on that title’s #11 (Dec. 1954). [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Fawcett war comics stories alongside cover photographs and tales which had originally been printed by Toby. The title may be a continuation of either Fawcett’s Soldier Comics or Toby’s Monty Hall of the U.S. Marines, both of which had run eleven issues. Another candidate for its predecessor is Toby’s Tell It to the Marines, which had featured service photographs on several covers, as would Soldier and Marine. Other Toby titles from which reprints were taken for the Charlton series were Fighting Leathernecks, With the Marines (on the Battle Fronts of the World), and Pin-Up Pete. Fawcett, for its part, had earlier also published Bill Battle and Battle Stories, from which stories were reprinted in the Charlton comic.

The lead tale for the premiere issue of Charlton’s Soldier and Marine is the 11-page “A Bird of Prey!” drawn by Bob Powell, plus two others apparently from Fawcett’s inventory. Issue #12, the last pre-Comics Code entry, features a “US Marines” tale of typical Toby appearance, alongside Bob McCarty’s “Killer Cat,” again from Fawcett. Soldier and Marine #13 reprinted George Evans’ “A Pork Chop for Hamlet” from Battle Stories #1. “Hamlet” proved to be the name of an heroic war-dog, while the “pork chop” was Pork Chop Hill, the location of a grim, real-life Korean War battle.

Soldier and Marine ceased publication with issue #15 (Aug. 1955), but was revived for the fleeting Soldier and Marine, Vol. 2, #9 (Dec. 1956), this time with new art. Gabby Hayes fared a little better, surviving until January 1957, with issue #59. Of the former Toby publications, only Li’l Genius and Billy The Kid proved ultimately successful, both surviving into the 1980s.

A triptych of Charlton covers: Ramar of the Jungle #3 (Jan. 1956), Captain Gallant #3 (May 1956), and Masked Raider #8 (July 1956, cover-featuring Billy the Kid). Jon Hall and Buster Crabbe starred in the TV series from which the first two were licensed; but here, too, Charlton eschewed photo covers in favor of line art. Dick Giordano confirms that the signature on Masked Raider is definitely “Giordano and Alascia,” and believes Capt. Gallant is “by Charles Nicholas and (I think) Vince Alascia”—and that the Ramar cover may be by Ted Galindo, who “did some signed work for Space Adventures in the mid-’50s.” Frank Motler and Bill Black concur with Dick’s identification, though Hames Ware wonders if Maurice Whitman, who drew most Ramar interiors, might’ve had a hand in that cover. (Ramar had been a Toby title prior to being picked up by CDC.) See how tricky this artist-ID business is, even with experts? But thanks, one and all! [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

[Next issue: Charlton Enters the Big Leagues—faster than you can say “Jackie Robinson”! A full listing of the Fawcett-to-Charlton titles will be printed at the conclusion of this series, two issues hence.]

Now—FLIP US for JERRY ROBINSON—Part One!

Edited by ROY THOMAS

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JOHN ROMITA interview by ROY THOMAS (with unseen art), Roy’s PROPOSED DREAM PROJECTS that never got published (with a host of great artists), MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING’S life after Superman, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom Panel, FCA section with GEORGE TUSKA, C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, BILL MORRISON, & more! ROMITA and GIORDANO covers!

Who Created the Silver Age Flash? (with KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and SCHWARTZ), DICK AYERS interview (with unseen art), JOHN BROOME remembered, never-seen Golden Age Flash pages, VIN SULLIVAN Magazine Enterprises interview, FCA, interview with FRED GUARDINEER, and MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING! INFANTINO and AYERS covers!

Focuses on TIMELY/MARVEL (interviews and features on SYD SHORES, MICKEY SPILLANE, and VINCE FAGO), and MAGAZINE ENTERPRISES (including JOE CERTA, JOHN BELFI, FRANK BOLLE, BOB POWELL, and FRED MEAGHER), MR. MONSTER on JERRY SIEGEL, DON and MAGGIE THOMPSON interview, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and DON NEWTON!

DC and QUALITY COMICS focus! Quality’s GILL FOX interview, never-seen ‘40s PAUL REINMAN Green Lantern story, ROY THOMAS talks to LEN WEIN and RICH BUCKLER about ALL-STAR SQUADRON, MR. MONSTER shows what made WALLY WOOD leave MAD, FCA section with BECK & SWAYZE, & ‘65 NEWSWEEK ARTICLE on comics! REINMAN and BILL WARD covers!

1974 panel with JOE SIMON, STAN LEE, FRANK ROBBINS, and ROY THOMAS, ROY and JOHN BUSCEMA on Avengers, 1964 STAN LEE interview, tributes to DON HECK, JOHNNY CRAIG, and GRAY MORROW, Timely alums DAVID GANTZ and DANIEL KEYES, and FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and MIKE MANLEY! Covers by MURPHY ANDERSON and JOE SIMON!

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16

ALTER EGO #14

ALTER EGO #15

ALTER EGO #16

ALTER EGO #17

ALTER EGO #18

A look at the 1970s JSA revival with CONWAY, LEVITZ, ESTRADA, GIFFEN, MILGROM, and STATON, JERRY ORDWAY on All-Star Squadron, tributes to CRAIG CHASE and DAN DeCARLO, “lost” 1945 issue of All-Star, 1970 interview with LEE ELIAS, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, & JAY DISBROW! MIKE NASSER & MICHAEL GILBERT covers!

JOHN BUSCEMA ISSUE! BUSCEMA interview (with UNSEEN ART), reminiscences by SAL BUSCEMA, STAN LEE, INFANTINO, KUBERT, ORDWAY, FLO STEINBERG, and HERB TRIMPE, ROY THOMAS on 35 years with BIG JOHN, FCA tribute to KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, plus C.C. BECK and MARC SWAYZE, and MR. MONSTER revisits WALLY WOOD! Two BUSCEMA covers!

MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION (BUSCEMA, COLAN, ROMITA, and SEVERIN), memories of the JOHN BUSCEMA SCHOOL, FCA with ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK, and MARC SWAYZE, tribute to CHAD GROTHKOPF, MR. MONSTER on EC COMICS with art by KURTZMAN, DAVIS, and WOOD, and more! Covers by ALEX ROSS and MARIE SEVERIN & RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlighting LOU FINE (with an overview of his career, and interviews with family members), interview with MURPHY ANDERSON about Fine, ALEX TOTH on Fine, ARNOLD DRAKE interviewed about DEADMAN and DOOM PATROL, MR. MONSTER on the non-EC work of JACK DAVIS and GEORGE EVANS, FINE and LUIS DOMINGUEZ COVERS, FCA and more!

STAN GOLDBERG interview, secrets of ‘40s Timely, art by KIRBY, DITKO, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, MANEELY, EVERETT, BURGOS, and DeCARLO, spotlight on sci-fi fanzine XERO with the LUPOFFS, OTTO BINDER, DON THOMPSON, ROY THOMAS, BILL SCHELLY, and ROGER EBERT, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD ghosting Flash Gordon! KIRBY and SWAYZE covers!

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ALTER EGO #19

ALTER EGO #20

ALTER EGO #21

ALTER EGO #22

ALTER EGO #23

Spotlight on DICK SPRANG (profile and interview) with unseen art, rare Batman art

by BOB KANE, CHARLES PARIS, SHELLY MOLDOFF, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, JIM MOONEY, CARMINE INFANTINO, and ALEX TOTH, JERRY ROBINSON interviewed about Tomahawk and 1940s cover artist FRED RAY, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD’s Flash Gordon, Part 2!

Timely/Marvel art by SEKOWSKY, SHORES, EVERETT, and BURGOS, secrets behind THE INVADERS with ROY THOMAS, KIRBY, GIL KANE, & ROBBINS, BOB DESCHAMPS interviewed, 1965 NY Comics Con review, panel with FINGER, BINDER, FOX and WEISINGER, MR. MONSTER, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, RABOY, SCHAFFENBERGER, and more! MILGROM and SCHELLY covers!

The IGER “SHOP” examined, with art by EISNER, FINE, ANDERSON, CRANDALL, BAKER, MESKIN, CARDY, EVANS, BOB KANE, and TUSKA, “SHEENA” section with art by DAVE STEVENS & FRANK BRUNNER, ROY THOMAS on JSA & All-Star Squadron, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, UNSEEN 1946 ALL-STAR ART, FCA, and more!

DAVE STEVENS and IRWIN HASEN covers!

BILL EVERETT and JOE KUBERT interviewed

by NEAL ADAMS and GIL KANE in 1970, Timely art by BURGOS, SHORES, NODELL, and SEKOWSKY, RUDY LAPICK, ROY THOMAS on Sub-Mariner, with art by EVERETT, COLAN, ANDRU, BUSCEMAs, SEVERINs, and more, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD at EC, ALEX TOTH, and CAPT. MIDNIGHT! EVERETT & BECK covers!

Unseen art from TWO “LOST” 1940s H.G. PETER WONDER WOMAN STORIES (and analysis of “CHARLES MOULTON” scripts), BOB FUJITANI and JOHN ROSENBERGER, VICTOR GORELICK discusses Archie and The Mighty Crusaders, with art by MORROW, BUCKLER, and REINMAN, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD! H.G. PETER and BOB FUJITANI covers!

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ALTER EGO #24

ALTER EGO #25

ALTER EGO #26

ALTER EGO #27

ALTER EGO #28

X-MEN interviews with STAN LEE, DAVE COCKRUM, CHRIS CLAREMONT, ARNOLD DRAKE, JIM SHOOTER, ROY THOMAS, and LEN WEIN, MORT MESKIN profiled by his sons and ALEX TOTH, rare art by JERRY ROBINSON, FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY on Comics Fandom! MESKIN and COCKRUM covers!

JACK COLE remembered by ALEX TOTH, interview with brother DICK COLE and his PLAYBOY colleagues, CHRIS CLAREMONT on the X-Men (with more never-seen art by DAVE COCKRUM), ROY THOMAS on AllStar Squadron #1 and its ‘40s roots (with art

by ORDWAY, BUCKLER, MESKIN and MOLDOFF), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by TOTH and SCHELLY!

JOE SINNOTT interview, IRWIN DONENFELD interview by EVANIER & SCHWARTZ, art by SHUSTER, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, and SWAN, MARK WAID analyzes the first Kryptonite story, JERRY SIEGEL and HARRY DONENFELD, JERRY IGER Shop update, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and KEN BALD! Covers by SINNOTT and WAYNE BORING!

VIN SULLIVAN interview about the early DC days with art by SHUSTER, MOLDOFF, FLESSEL, GUARDINEER, and BURNLEY, MR. MONSTER’s “Lost” KIRBY HULK covers, 1948 NEW YORK COMIC CON with STAN LEE, SIMON & KIRBY, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, HARVEY KURTZMAN, and ROY THOMAS, ALEX TOTH, FCA, and more! Covers by JACK BURNLEY and JACK KIRBY!

Spotlight on JOE MANEELY, with a career overview, remembrance by his daughter and tons of art, Timely/Atlas/Marvel art by ROMITA, EVERETT, SEVERIN, SHORES, KIRBY, and DITKO, STAN LEE on Maneely, LEE AMES interview, FCA with SWAYZE, ISIS, and STEVE SKEATES, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Covers by JOE MANEELY and DON NEWTON!

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17

ALTER EGO #29

ALTER EGO #30

ALTER EGO #31

ALTER EGO #32

ALTER EGO #33

FRANK BRUNNER interview, BILL EVERETT’S Venus examined by TRINA ROBBINS, Classics Illustrated “What ifs”, LEE/KIRBY/DITKO Marvel prototypes, JOE MANEELY’s monsters, BILL FRACCIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, JOHN BENSON on EC, The Heap by ERNIE SCHROEDER, and FCA! Covers by FRANK BRUNNER and PETE VON SHOLLY!

ALEX ROSS on his love for the JLA, BLACKHAWK/JLA artist DICK DILLIN, the super-heroes of 1940s-1980s France (with art by STEVE RUDE, STEVE BISSETTE, LADRÖNN, and NEAL ADAMS), KIM AAMODT & WALTER GEIER on writing for SIMON & KIRBY, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA! Covers by ALEX ROSS and STEVE RUDE!

DICK AYERS on his 1950s and ‘60s work (with tons of Marvel Bullpen art), HARLAN ELLISON’s Marvel Age work examined (with art by BUCKLER, SAL BUSCEMA, and TRIMPE), STAN LEE’S Marvel Prototypes (with art by KIRBY and DITKO), Christmas cards from comics greats, MR. MONSTER, & FCA with SWAYZE and SCHAFFENBERGER! Covers by DICK AYERS and FRED RAY!

Timely artists ALLEN BELLMAN and SAM BURLOCKOFF interviewed, MART NODELL on his Timely years, rare art by BURGOS, EVERETT, and SHORES, MIKE GOLD on the Silver Age (with art by SIMON & KIRBY, SWAN, INFANTINO, KANE, and more), FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more!

Covers by DICK GIORDANO and GIL KANE!

Symposium on MIKE SEKOWSKY by MARK EVANIER, SCOTT SHAW!, et al., with art

by ANDERSON, INFANTINO, and others, PAT (MRS. MIKE) SEKOWSKY and inker VALERIE BARCLAY interviewed, FCA, 1950s Captain Marvel parody by ANDRU and ESPOSITO, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by FRENZ/SINNOTT and FRENZ/BUSCEMA!

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ALTER EGO #34

ALTER EGO #35

ALTER EGO #36

ALTER EGO #37

ALTER EGO #38

Quality Comics interviews with ALEX KOTZKY, AL GRENET, CHUCK CUIDERA, & DICK ARNOLD (son of BUSY ARNOLD), art by COLE, EISNER, FINE, WARD, DILLIN, and KANE, MICHELLE NOLAN on Blackhawk’s jump to DC, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on HARVEY KURTZMAN, & ALEX TOTH on REED CRANDALL! Covers by REED CRANDALL & CHARLES NICHOLAS!

Covers by JOHN ROMITA and AL JAFFEE! LEE, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, & THOMAS on the 1953-55 Timely super-hero revival, with rare art by ROMITA, AYERS, BURGOS, HEATH, EVERETT, LAWRENCE, & POWELL, AL JAFFEE on the 1940s Timely Bullpen (and MAD), FCA, ALEX TOTH on comic art, MR. MONSTER on unpublished 1950s covers, and more!

JOE SIMON on SIMON & KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, and LLOYD JACQUET, JOHN BELL on World War II Canadian heroes, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on Canadian origins of MR. MONSTER, tributes to BOB DESCHAMPS, DON LAWRENCE, & GEORGE WOODBRIDGE, FCA, ALEX TOTH, and ELMER WEXLER interview! Covers by SIMON and GILBERT & RONN SUTTON!

WILL MURRAY on the 1940 Superman “KMetal” story & PHILIP WYLIE’s GLADIATOR (with art by SHUSTER, SWAN, ADAMS, and BORING), FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and DON NEWTON, SY BARRY interview, art by TOTH, MESKIN, INFANTINO, and ANDERSON, and MICHAEL T. GILBERT interviews AL FELDSTEIN on EC and RAY BRADBURY! Covers by C.C. BECK and WAYNE BORING!

JULIE SCHWARTZ TRIBUTE with HARLAN ELLISON, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, KUBERT, GIELLA, GIORDANO, CARDY, LEVITZ, STAN LEE, WOLFMAN, EVANIER, & ROY THOMAS, never-seen interviews with Julie, FCA with BECK, SCHAFFENBERGER, NEWTON, COCKRUM, OKSNER, FRADON, SWAYZE, and JACKSON BOSTWICK! Covers by INFANTINO and IRWIN HASEN!

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ALTER EGO #39

ALTER EGO #40

ALTER EGO #41

ALTER EGO #42

ALTER EGO #43

Full-issue spotlight on JERRY ROBINSON, with an interview on being BOB KANE’s Batman “ghost”, creating the JOKER and ROBIN, working on VIGILANTE, GREEN HORNET, and ATOMAN, plus never-seen art by Jerry, MESKIN, ROUSSOS, RAY, KIRBY, SPRANG, DITKO, and PARIS! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER on AL FELDSTEIN Part 2, and more! Two JERRY ROBINSON covers!

RUSS HEATH and GIL KANE interviews (with tons of unseen art), the JULIE SCHWARTZ Memorial Service with ELLISON, MOORE, GAIMAN, HASEN, O’NEIL, and LEVITZ, art by INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, NOVICK, DILLIN, SEKOWSKY, KUBERT, GIELLA, ARAGONÉS, FCA, MR. MONSTER and AL FELDSTEIN Part 3, and more! Covers by GIL KANE & RUSS HEATH!

Halloween issue! BERNIE WRIGHTSON on his 1970s FRANKENSTEIN, DICK BRIEFER’S monster, the campy 1960s Frankie, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, and SUTTON, FCA #100, EMILIO SQUEGLIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more!

Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE!

A celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, and AYERS, Hillman and Ziff-Davis remembered by Heap artist ERNIE SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and ALEX TOTH! Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER!

Yuletide art by WOOD, SINNOTT, CARDY, BRUNNER, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Flip covers by GEORGE TUSKA and DAVE STEVENS!

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18

ALTER EGO #44

ALTER EGO #45

ALTER EGO #46

ALTER EGO #47

ALTER EGO #48

JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special!

Interviews with KUBERT, HASEN, ANDERSON, ORDWAY, BUCKLER, THOMAS, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, MACHLAN, OKSNER, and INFANTINO, FCA, and MR. MONSTER’S “I Like Ike!” cartoons by BOB KANE, INFANTINO, OKSNER, and BIRO! Wraparound ORDWAY cover!

Interviews with Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and ‘40s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art

by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, and AYERS, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, OTTO BINDER’s “lost” Jon Jarl story, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and ALEX TOTH! CREIG FLESSEL cover!

The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, JERRY BAILS, and ROY THOMAS, LOU GLANZMAN interview, tributes to IRV NOVICK and CHRIS REEVE, MR. MONSTER, FCA, TOTH, and more!

Cover by EVERETT and MARIE SEVERIN!

Spotlights MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY! Career overview, interviews with BAKER’s half-brother and nephew, art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN and others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to comic-book-seller (and fan) BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER on missing AL WILLIAMSON art, and ALEX TOTH!

WILL EISNER discusses Eisner & Iger’s Shop and BUSY ARNOLD’s ‘40s Quality Comics, art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, POWELL, and CARDY, EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others, interviews with ‘40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL and CHUCK MAZOUJIAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER on EISNER’s Wonder Man, ALEX TOTH, and more with BUD PLANT! EISNER cover!

(100-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

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ALTER EGO #49

ALTER EGO #50

ALTER EGO #51

ALTER EGO #52

ALTER EGO #53

Spotlights CARL BURGOS! Interview with daughter SUE BURGOS, art by BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, MIKE SEKOWSKY, ED ASCHE, and DICK AYERS, unused 1941 Timely cover layouts, the 1957 Atlas Implosion examined, MANNY STALLMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER and more! New cover by MARK SPARACIO, from an unused 1941 layout by CARL BURGOS!

ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics (AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters to GARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA and JERRY ORDWAY!

Golden Age Batman artist/BOB KANE ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, Batman art by JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, SHELDON MOLDOFF, WIN MORTIMER, JIM MOONEY, and others, the Golden and Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WILL EISNER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE and CHARLES BIRO, MARTIN THALL interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! GIELLA cover!

GIORDANO and THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, BILL SCHELLY, ALEX TOTH, and MR. MONSTER! Cover by GIORDANO!

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ALTER EGO #54

ALTER EGO #55

ALTER EGO #56

ALTER EGO #57

ALTER EGO #58

MIKE ESPOSITO on DC and Marvel, ROBERT KANIGHER on the creation of Metal Men and Sgt. Rock (with comments

by JOE KUBERT and BOB HANEY), art by ANDRU, INFANTINO, KIRBY, SEVERIN, WINDSOR-SMITH, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, TRIMPE, GIL KANE, and others, plus FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! ESPOSITO cover!

JACK and OTTO BINDER, KEN BALD, VIC DOWD, and BOB BOYAJIAN interviewed, FCA with SWAYZE and EMILIO SQUEGLIO, rare art by BECK, WARD, & SCHAFFENBERGER, Christmas Cards from CRANDALL, SINNOTT, HEATH, MOONEY, and CARDY, 1943 Pin-Up Calendar (with ‘40s movie stars as superheroines), ALEX TOTH, more!

ALEX ROSS and ALEX WRIGHT covers!

Interviews with Superman creators SIEGEL & SHUSTER, Golden/Silver Age DC production guru JACK ADLER interviewed, NEAL ADAMS and radio/TV iconoclast (and comics fan) HOWARD STERN on Adler and his amazing career, art by CURT SWAN, WAYNE BORING, and AL PLASTINO, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more! NEAL ADAMS cover!

Issue-by-issue index of Timely/Atlas superhero stories by MICHELLE NOLAN, art by SIMON & KIRBY, EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, SEKOWSKY, SHORES, SCHOMBURG, MANEELY, and SEVERIN, GENE COLAN and ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely super-heroes, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY! Cover

by JACK KIRBY and PETE VON SHOLLY!

GERRY CONWAY and ROY THOMAS on their ‘80s screenplay for “The X-Men Movie That Never Was!”with art by COCKRUM, ADAMS, BUSCEMA, BYRNE, GIL KANE, KIRBY, HECK, and LIEBER, Atlas artist VIC CARRABOTTA interview, ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely bullpen, FCA, 1966 panel on 1950s EC Comics, and MR. MONSTER! MARK SPARACIO/GIL KANE cover!

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19

ALTER EGO #59

ALTER EGO #60

ALTER EGO #61

ALTER EGO #62

ALTER EGO #63

Special issue on Batman and Superman in the Golden and Silver Ages, featuring a new ARTHUR SUYDAM interview, NEAL ADAMS on DC in the 1960s-1970s, SHELLY MOLDOFF, AL PLASTINO, Golden Age artist FRAN (Doll Man) MATERA interviewed, SIEGEL & SHUSTER, RUSS MANNING, FCA, MR. MONSTER, SUYDAM cover, and more!

Celebrates 50 years since SHOWCASE #4!

FLASH interviews with SCHWARTZ, KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and BROOME, Golden Age artist TONY DiPRETA, 1966 panel with NORDLING, BINDER, and LARRY IVIE, FCA, MR. MONSTER, never-before-published color Flash cover by CARMINE INFANTINO, and more!

History of the AMERICAN COMICS GROUP (1946 to 1967)—including its roots in the Golden Age SANGOR ART SHOP and STANDARD/NEDOR comics! Art by MESKIN, ROBINSON, WILLIAMSON, FRAZETTA, SCHAFFENBERGER, & BUSCEMA, ACG writer/editor RICHARD HUGHES, plus AL HARTLEY interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! GIORDANO cover!

HAPPY HAUNTED HALLOWEEN ISSUE, featuring: MIKE PLOOG and RUDY PALAIS on their horror-comics work! AL WILLIAMSON on his work for the American Comics Group—plus more on ACG horror comics! Rare DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strips! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on the 1966 KalerCon, a new PLOOG cover—and more!

Tribute to ALEX TOTH! Never-before-seen interview with tons of TOTH art, including sketches he sent to friends! Articles about Toth by TERRY AUSTIN, JIM AMASH, SY BARRY, JOE KUBERT, LOU SAYRE SCHWARTZ, IRWIN HASEN, JOHN WORKMAN, and others! Plus illustrated Christmas cards by comics pros, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

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(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #64

ALTER EGO #65

ALTER EGO #66

ALTER EGO #67

ALTER EGO #68

Fawcett Favorites! Issue-by-issue analysis of BINDER & BECK’s 1943-45 “The Monster Society of Evil!” serial, double-size FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, EMILIO SQUEGLIO, C.C. BECK, MAC RABOY, and others! Interview with MARTIN FILCHOCK, Golden Age artist for Centaur Comics! Plus MR. MONSTER, DON NEWTON cover, plus a FREE 1943 MARVEL CALENDAR!

NICK CARDY interviewed on his Golden & Silver Age work (with CARDY art), plus art

by WILL EISNER, NEAL ADAMS, CARMINE INFANTINO, JIM APARO, RAMONA FRADON, CURT SWAN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, and others, tributes to ERNIE SCHROEDER and DAVE COCKRUM, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, new CARDY COVER, and more!

Spotlight on BOB POWELL, the artist who drew Daredevil, Sub-Mariner, Sheena, The Avenger, The Hulk, Giant-Man, and others, plus art by WALLY WOOD, HOWARD NOSTRAND, DICK AYERS, SIMON & KIRBY, MARTIN GOODMAN’s Magazine Management, and others! FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

Interview with BOB OKSNER, artist of Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Angel and the Ape, Leave It to Binky, Shazam!, and more, plus art and artifacts by SHELLY MAYER, IRWIN HASEN, LEE ELIAS, C.C. BECK, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, JULIE SCHWARTZ, etc., FCA with MARC SWAYZE & C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on BOB POWELL Part II, and more!

Tribute to JERRY BAILS—Father of Comics Fandom and founder of Alter Ego! Cover by GEORGE PÉREZ, plus art by JOE KUBERT, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, DICK DILLIN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JERRY ORDWAY, JOE STATON, JACK KIRBY, and others! Plus STEVE DITKO’s notes to STAN LEE for a 1965 Dr. Strange story! And ROY reveals secrets behind Marvel’s STAR WARS comic!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #69

ALTER EGO #70

ALTER EGO #71

ALTER EGO #72

ALTER EGO #73

PAUL NORRIS drew AQUAMAN first, in 1941—and RAMONA FRADON was the hero’s ultimate Golden Age artist. But both drew other things as well, and both are interviewed in this landmark issue—along with a pocket history of Aquaman! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more!

Cover painted by JOHN WATSON, from a breathtaking illo by RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlight on ROY THOMAS’ 1970s stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief and major writer, plus art and reminiscences of GIL KANE, BOTH BUSCEMAS, ADAMS, ROMITA, CHAYKIN, BRUNNER, PLOOG, EVERETT, WRIGHTSON, PÉREZ, ROBBINS, BARRY SMITH, STAN LEE and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, a new GENE COLAN cover, plus an homage to artist LILY RENÉE!

Represents THE GREAT CANADIAN COMIC BOOKS, the long out-of-print 1970s book

by MICHAEL HIRSH and PATRICK LOUBERT, with rare art of such heroes as Mr. Monster, Nelvana, Thunderfist, and others, plus new INVADERS art by JOHN BYRNE, MIKE GRELL, RON LIM, and more, plus a new cover by GEORGE FREEMAN, from a layout by JACK KIRBY!

SCOTT SHAW! and ROY THOMAS on the creation of Captain Carrot, art & artifacts

by RICK HOBERG, STAN GOLDBERG, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOHN COSTANZA, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, CAROL LAY, and others, interview with DICK ROCKWELL, Golden Age artist and 36-year ghost artist on MILTON CANIFF’s Steve Canyon! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

FRANK BRUNNER on drawing Dr. Strange, interviews with CHARLES BIRO and his daughters, interview with publisher ROBERT GERSON about his 1970s horror comic Reality, art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, GRAHAM INGELS, HOWARD CHAYKIN, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, JEFF JONES, and others FCA, MR. MONSTER, a FREE DRAW! #15! PREVIEW, and more!

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(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

20

ALTER EGO #74

ALTER EGO #75

ALTER EGO #76

ALTER EGO #77

ALTER EGO #78

STAN LEE SPECIAL in honor of his 85th birthday, with a cover by JACK KIRBY, classic (and virtually unseen) interviews with Stan, tributes, and tons of rare and unseen art by KIRBY, ROMITA, the brothers BUSCEMA, DITKO, COLAN, HECK, AYERS, MANEELY, SHORES, EVERETT, BURGOS, KANE, the SEVERIN siblings—plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL—with an ALEX ROSS cover! Double-size FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with P.C. HAMERLINCK on the many “Captains Marvel” over the years, unseen Shazam! proposal by ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK on “The Death of a Legend!”, MARC SWAYZE, interview with Golden Age artist MARV LEVY, MR. MONSTER, and more!

JOE SIMON SPECIAL! In-depth SIMON interview by JIM AMASH, with neverbefore-revealed secrets behind the creation of Captain America, Fighting American, Stuntman, Adventures of The Fly, Sick magazine and more, art by JACK KIRBY, BOB POWELL, AL WILLIAMSON, JERRY GRANDENETTI, GEORGE TUSKA, and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

ST. JOHN ISSUE! Golden Age Tor cover by JOE KUBERT, KEN QUATTRO relates the full legend of St. John Publishing, art by KUBERT, NORMAN MAURER, MATT BAKER, LILY RENEE, BOB LUBBERS, RUBEN MOREIRA, RALPH MAYO, AL FAGO, special reminiscences of ARNOLD DRAKE, Golden Age artist TOM SAWYER interviewed, and more!

DAVE COCKRUM TRIBUTE! Great rare XMen cover, Cockrum tributes from contemporaries and colleagues, and an interview with PATY COCKRUM on Dave’s life and legacy on The Legion of Super-Heroes, The X-Men, Star-Jammers, & more! Plus an interview with 1950s Timely/Marvel artist MARION SITTON on his own incredible career and his Golden Age contemporaries!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

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(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #79

ALTER EGO #80

ALTER EGO #81

ALTER EGO #82

ALTER EGO #83

SUPERMAN & HIS CREATORS! New cover

by MICHAEL GOLDEN, exclusive and revealing interview with JOE SHUSTER’s sister, JEAN SHUSTER PEAVEY—LOU CAMERON interview—STEVE GERBER tribute—DWIGHT DECKER on the Man of Steel & Hitler’s Third Reich—plus art by WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, NEAL ADAMS, GIL KANE, and others!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY COMICS! Learn about Crom the Barbarian, Viking Prince, Nightmaster, Kull, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, Beowulf, Warlord, Dagar the Invincible, and more, with art by FRAZETTA, SMITH, BUSCEMA, KANE, WRIGHTSON, PLOOG, THORNE, BRUNNER, LOU CAMERON Part II, and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

New FRANK BRUNNER Man-Thing cover, a look at the late-’60s horror comic WEB OF HORROR with early work by BRUNNER, WRIGHTSON, WINDSOR-SMITH, SIMONSON, & CHAYKIN, interview with comics & fine artist EVERETT RAYMOND KINTSLER, ROY THOMAS’ 1971 origin synopsis for the FIRST MAN-THING STORY, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

MLJ ISSUE! Golden Age MLJ index illustrated with vintage images of The Shield, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Black Hood,

by IRV NOVICK, JACK COLE, CHARLES BIRO, MORT MESKIN, GIL KANE, & others—behind a marvelous MLJ-heroes cover

by BOB McLEOD! Plus interviews with IRV NOVICK and JOE EDWARDS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

SWORD & SORCERY PART 2! Cover by ARTHUR SUYDAM, with a focus on Conan the Barbarian by ROY THOMAS and WILL MURRAY, a look at WALLY WOOD’s Marvel sword-&-sorcery work, the Black Knight examined, plus JOE EDWARDS interview Part 2, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

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(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #84

ALTER EGO #85

ALTER EGO #86

ALTER EGO #87

ALTER EGO #88

Unseen JIM APARO cover, STEVE SKEATES discusses his early comics work, art & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD, and the great WARREN SAVIN! Plus writer CHARLES SINCLAIR on his partnership with Batman co-creator BILL FINGER, FCA, and more!

Captain Marvel and Superman’s battles explored (in cosmic space, candy stores, and in court), RICH BUCKLER on Captain Marvel, plus an in-depth interview with Golden Age great LILY RENÉE, overview of CENTAUR COMICS (home of BILL EVERETT’s Amazing-Man and others), FCA, MR. MONSTER, new RICH BUCKLER cover, and more!

Spotlighting the Frantic Four-Color MAD WANNABES of 1953-55 that copied HARVEY KURTZMAN’S EC smash (see Captain Marble, Mighty Moose, Drag-ula, Prince Scallion, and more) with art by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT & MAURER, ANDRU & ESPOSITO, EVERETT, COLAN, and many others, plus Part 1 of a talk with Golden/ Silver Age artist FRANK BOLLE, and more!

The sensational 1954-1963 saga of Great Britain’s MARVELMAN (decades before he metamorphosed into Miracleman), plus an interview with writer/artist/co-creator MICK ANGLO, and rare Marvelman/ Miracleman work by ALAN DAVIS, ALAN MOORE, a new RICK VEITCH cover, plus FRANK BOLLE, Part 2, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

First-ever in-depth look at National/DC’s founder MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELERNICHOLSON, and pioneers WHITNEY ELLSWORTH and CREIG FLESSEL, with rare art and artifacts by SIEGEL & SHUSTER, BOB KANE, CURT SWAN, GARDNER FOX, SHELDON MOLDOFF, and others, focus on DC advisor DR. LAURETTA BENDER, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

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(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

21

ALTER EGO #89

ALTER EGO #90

ALTER EGO #91

ALTER EGO #92

ALTER EGO #93

HARVEY COMICS’ PRE-CODE HORROR MAGS OF THE 1950s! Interviews with SID JACOBSON, WARREN KREMER, and HOWARD NOSTRAND, plus Harvey artist KEN SELIG talks to JIM AMASH! MR. MONSTER presents the wit and wisdom (and worse) of DR. FREDRIC WERTHAM, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE, & more!

SIMON & KIRBY and NOSTRAND cover!

BIG MARVEL ISSUE! Salutes to legends SINNOTT and AYERS—plus STAN LEE, TUSKA, EVERETT, MARTIN GOODMAN, and others! A look at the “Marvel SuperHeroes” TV animation of 1966! 1940s Timely writer and editor LEON LAZARUS interviewed by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, the 1960s fandom creations of STEVE GERBER, and more! JACK KIRBY holiday cover!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL! Big FCA section with Golden Age artists MARC SWAYZE & EMILIO SQUEGLIO! Plus JERRY ORDWAY on researching The Power of Shazam, Part II of “The MAD Four-Color Wannabes of the 1950s,” more on DR. LAURETTA BENDER and the teenage creations of STEVE GERBER, artist JACK KATZ spills Golden Age secrets to JIM AMASH, and more!

New cover by ORDWAY and SQUEGLIO!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY, PART 3! DC’s Sword of Sorcery by O’NEIL, CHAYKIN, & SIMONSON and Claw by MICHELINIE & CHAN, Hercules by GLANZMAN, Dagar by GLUT & SANTOS, Marvel S&S art by BUSCEMA, CHAN, KAYANAN, WRIGHTSON, et al., and JACK KATZ on his classic First Kingdom! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER’s fan-creations (part 3), and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “EarthTwo—1961 to 1985!” with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, ANDERSON, DELBO, ANDRU, BUCKLER, APARO, GRANDENETTI, and DILLIN, interview with Golden/Silver Age DC editor GEORGE KASHDAN, plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and a new cover by INFANTINO and AMASH!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

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(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #94

ALTER EGO #95

ALTER EGO #96

ALTER EGO #97

ALTER EGO #98

“Earth-Two Companion, Part II!” More on the 1963-1985 series that changed comics forever! The Huntress, Power Girl, Dr. Fate, Freedom Fighters, and more, with art by ADAMS, APARO, AYERS, BUCKLER, GIFFEN, INFANTINO, KANE, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, SIMONSON, STATON, SWAN, TUSKA, our GEORGE KASHDAN interview Part 2, FCA, and more! STATON & GIORDANO cover!

Marvel’s NOT BRAND ECHH madcap parody mag from 1967-69, examined with rare art & artifacts by ANDRU, COLAN, BUSCEMA, DRAKE, EVERETT, FRIEDRICH, KIRBY, LEE, the SEVERIN siblings, SPRINGER, SUTTON, THOMAS, TRIMPE, and more, GEORGE KASHDAN interview conclusion, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MARIE SEVERIN!

Focus on Archie’s 1960s MIGHTY CRUSADERS, with vintage art and artifacts

by JERRY SIEGEL, PAUL REINMAN, SIMON & KIRBY, JOHN ROSENBERGER, tributes to the Mighty Crusaders by BOB FUJITANE, GEORGE TUSKA, BOB LAYTON, and others! Interview with MELL LAZARUS, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and more! Cover

by MIKE MACHLAN!

The NON-EC HORROR COMICS OF THE 1950s! From Menace and House of Mystery to The Thing!, we present vintage art and artifacts by EVERETT, BRIEFER, DITKO, MANEELY, COLAN , MESKIN, MOLDOFF, HEATH, POWELL, COLE, SIMON & KIRBY, FUJITANI, and others, plus FCA , MR. MONSTER and more, behind a creepy, eerie cover by BILL EVERETT!

Spotlight on Superman’s first editor WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, longtime Kryptoeditor MORT WEISINGER remembered by his daughter, an interview with Superman writer ALVIN SCHWARTZ, tributes to FRANK FRAZETTA and AL WILLIAMSON, art by JOE SHUSTER, WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, and NEAL ADAMS, plus MR. MONSTER, FCA, and a new cover by JERRY ORDWAY!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL (AE #100)

ALTER EGO #99

GEORGE TUSKA showcase issue on his career at Lev Gleason, Marvel, and in comics strips through the early 1970s—CRIME DOES NOT PAY, BUCK ROGERS, IRON MAN, AVENGERS, HERO FOR HIRE, & more! Plus interviews with Golden Age artist BILL BOSSERT and fan-artist RUDY FRANKE, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and more!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

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ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL is a celebration of 100 issues, and 50 years, of ALTER EGO, Roy Thomas’ legendary super-hero fanzine. It’s a double-size triple-threat BOOK, with twice as many pages as the regular magazine, plus special features just for this anniversary edition! Behind a RICH BUCKLER/JERRY ORDWAY JSA cover, ALTER EGO celebrates its 100th issue and the 50th anniversary of A/E (Vol. 1) #1 in 1961—as ROY THOMAS is interviewed by JIM AMASH about the 1980s at DC! Learn secrets behind ALL-STAR SQUADRON—INFINITY, INC.—ARAK, SON OF THUNDER—CAPTAIN CARROT—JONNI THUNDER, a.k.a. THUNDERBOLT— YOUNG ALL-STARS—SHAZAM!—RING OF THE NIBELUNG—and more! With rare art and artifacts

by GEORGE PÉREZ, TODD McFARLANE, RICH BUCKLER, JERRY ORDWAY, MIKE MACHLAN, GIL KANE, GENE COLAN, DICK GIORDANO, ALFREDO ALCALA, TONY DEZUNIGA, ERNIE COLÓN, STAN GOLDBERG, SCOTT SHAW!, ROSS ANDRU, and many more! Plus special anniversary editions of Alter Ego staples MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA (FCA)—and ALEX WRIGHT’s amazing color collection of 1940s DC pinup babes! Edited by ROY THOMAS. (NOTE: This book takes the place of ALTER EGO #100, and counts as TWO issues toward your subscription.)

(160-page trade paperback with COLOR) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • ISBN: 9781605490311 Diamond Order Code: JAN111351

ALTER EGO #101

Fox Comics of the 1940s with art by FINE, BAKER, SIMON, KIRBY, TUSKA, FLETCHER HANKS, ALEX BLUM, and others!

“Superman vs. Wonder Man” starring EISNER, IGER, SIEGEL, LIEBERSON, MAYER, DONENFELD, and VICTOR FOX! Plus, Part I of an interview with JACK MENDELSOHN, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by Marvel artist DAVE WILLIAMS!

NEW!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #102

ALTER EGO #103

ALTER EGO #104

ALTER EGO: THE CBA COLLECTION

Spotlight on Green Lantern creators MART NODELL and BILL FINGER in the 1940s, and JOHN BROOME, GIL KANE, and JULIUS SCHWARTZ in 1959! Rare GL artwork by INFANTINO, REINMAN, HASEN, NEAL ADAMS, and others! Plus JACK MENDELSOHN Part II, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by GIL KANE & TERRY AUSTIN, and MART NODELL!

The early career of comics writer STEVE ENGLEHART: Defenders, Captain America, Master of Kung Fu, The Beast, Mantis, and more, with rare art and artifacts by SAL BUSCEMA, STARLIN, SUTTON, HECK, BROWN, and others. Plus, JIM AMASH interviews early artist GEORGE MANDEL (Captain Midnight, The Woman in Red, Blue Bolt, Black Marvel, etc.), FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and more!

Celebrates the 50th anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 and the birth of Marvel Comics! New, never-before-published STAN LEE interview, art and artifacts

by KIRBY, DITKO, SINNOTT, AYERS, THOMAS, and secrets behind the Marvel Mythos! Also: JIM AMASH interviews 1940s Timely editor AL SULMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and a new cover by FRENZ and SINNOTT!

Compiles the ALTER EGO flip-sides from COMIC BOOK ARTIST #1-5, plus 30 NEW PAGES of features & art! All-new rare and previously-unpublished art by JACK KIRBY, GIL KANE, JOE KUBERT, WALLY WOOD, FRANK ROBBINS, NEAL ADAMS, & others, ROY THOMAS on X-MEN, AVENGERS/ KREE-SKRULL WAR, INVADERS, and more! Cover by JOE KUBERT!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(160-page trade paperback) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $4.95

HUMOR MAGAZINES (BUNDLE ALL THREE FOR JUST $14.95)

ALTER EGO:

BEST OF THE LEGENDARY COMICS FANZINE

Collects the original 11 issues of JERRY BAILS and ROY THOMAS’ ALTER EGO fanzine (from 1961-78), with contributions from JACK KIRBY, STEVE DITKO, WALLY WOOD, JOHN BUSCEMA, MARIE SEVERIN, BILL EVERETT, RUSS MANNING, CURT SWAN, and others—and illustrated interviews with GIL KANE, BILL EVERETT, & JOE KUBERT! Plus major articles on the JUSTICE SOCIETY, the MARVEL FAMILY, the MLJ HEROES, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS and BILL SCHELLY with an introduction by JULIE SCHWARTZ. (192-page trade paperback) $21.95 ISBN: 9781893905887 Diamond Order Code: DEC073946

COMIC BOOK NERD

PETE VON SHOLLY’s side-splitting parody of the fan press, including our own mags!

Experience the magic(?) of such publications as WHIZZER, the COMICS URINAL, ULTRA EGO, COMICS BUYER’S GUISE, BAGGED ISSUE!, SCRAWL!, COMIC BOOK ARTISTE, and more, as we unabashedly poke fun at ourselves, our competitors, and you, our loyal readers! It’s a first issue, collector’s item, double-bag, slab-worthy, speculator’s special sure to rub even the thickest-skinned fanboy the wrong way!

(64-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95

CRAZY HIP GROOVY GO-GO WAY OUT MONSTERS #29 & #32

PETE VON SHOLLY’s spoofs of monster mags will have you laughing your pants off— right after you soil them from sheer terror! This RETRO MONSTER MOVIE MAGAZINE is a laugh riot lampoon of those GREAT (and absolutely abominable) mags of the 1950s and ‘60s, replete with fake letters-to-the-editor, phony ads for worthless, wacky stuff, stills from imaginary films as bad as any that were really made, interviews with their “creators,” and much more! Relive your misspent youth (and misspent allowance) as you dig the hilarious photos, ads, and articles skewering OUR FAVORITE THINGS of the past! Get our first issue (#29!), the sequel (#32!), or both!

DIEDGITIIOTANSL E

BL AVAILA

(48-page magazines) $5.95 EACH • (Digital Editions) $1.95 EACH

These sold-out books are now available again in DIGITAL EDITIONS:

NEW!

MR. MONSTER, VOL. 0

TRUE BRIT

DICK GIORDANO: CHANGING COMICS, ONE DAY AT A TIME

Collects hard-to-find Mr. Monster stories from A-1, CRACK-A-BOOM! and DARK HORSE PRESENTS (many in COLOR for the first time) plus over 30 pages of ALLNEW MR. MONSTER art and stories! Can your sanity survive our Lee/Kirby monster spoof by MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MARK MARTIN, or the long-lost 1933 Mr. Monster newspaper strip? Or the terrifying TRENCHER/MR. MONSTER slug-fest, drawn by KEITH GIFFEN and MICHAEL T. GILBERT?! Read at your own risk!

GEORGE KHOURY’s definitive book on the rich history of British Comics Artists, their influence on the US, and how they have revolutionized the way comics are seen and perceived! It features breathtaking art, intimate photographs, and in-depth interviews with BRIAN BOLLAND, ALAN DAVIS, DAVE GIBBONS, KEVIN O’NEILL, DAVID LLOYD, DAVE McKEAN, BRYAN HITCH, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH and other fine gents! Sporting a new JUDGE DREDD cover by BRIAN BOLLAND!

MICHAEL EURY’s biography of comics’ most prominent and affable personality! It covers his career as illustrator, inker, and editor—peppered with DICK’S PERSONAL REFLECTIONS—and is illustrated with RARE AND UNSEEN comics, merchandising, and advertising art! Plus: an extensive index of his published work, comments and tributes

by NEAL ADAMS, DENNIS O’NEIL, TERRY AUSTIN, PAUL LEVITZ, MARV WOLFMAN, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, JIM APARO and others, a Foreword by NEAL ADAMS, and an Afterword by PAUL LEVITZ!

(136-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $4.95

(204-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95

(176-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $5.95

SECRETS IN THE SHADOWS: GENE COLAN

TOM FIELD’s amazing COLAN retrospective, with rare drawings, photos, and art from his 60-year career, and a comprehensive overview of Gene’s glory days at Marvel Comics!

MARV WOLFMAN, DON McGREGOR and other writers share script samples and anecdotes of their Colan collaborations, while TOM PALMER, STEVE LEIALOHA and others show how they approached inking Colan’s famously nuanced penciled pages!

Plus: a NEW PORTFOLIO of never-seen collaborations between Gene and masters such as BYRNE, KALUTA and PÉREZ, and all-new artwork created just for this book!

(192-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95

ART OF GEORGE TUSKA

A comprehensive look at GEORGE TUSKA’S personal and professional life, including early work at the Eisner-Iger shop, producing controversial crime comics of the 1950s, and his tenure with Marvel and DC Comics, as well as independent publishers. Includes extensive coverage of his work on IRON MAN, X-MEN, HULK, JUSTICE LEAGUE, TEEN TITANS, BATMAN, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS, and others, a gallery of commission art and a thorough index of his work, original art, photos, sketches, unpublished art, interviews and anecdotes from his peers and fans, plus the very personal and reflective words of George himself! Written by DEWEY CASSELL. (128-page Digital Edition) $4.95

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OTHER BOOKS FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING

PENCILER, PUBLISHER, PROVOCATEUR

COMICS’ FAST & FURIOUS ARTIST

THE ART OF GLAMOUR

MATT BAKER

EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE

Shines a light on the life and career of the artistic and publishing visionary of DC Comics!

Explores the life and career of one of Marvel Comics’ most recognizable and dependable artists!

Biography of the talented master of 1940s “Good Girl” art, complete with color story reprints!

Definitive biography of the Watchmen writer, in a new, expanded edition!

(224-page trade paperback) $26.95

(176-page trade paperback with COLOR) $26.95

(192-page hardcover with COLOR) $39.95

(240-page trade paperback) $29.95

QUALITY COMPANION

BATCAVE COMPANION

ALL- STAR COMPANION

AGE OF TV HEROES

The first dedicated book about the Golden Age publisher that spawned the modern-day “Freedom Fighters”, Plastic Man, and the Blackhawks!

Unlocks the secrets of Batman’s Silver and Bronze Ages, following the Dark Knight’s progression from 1960s camp to 1970s creature of the night!

Roy Thomas has four volumes documenting the history of ALL-STAR COMICS, the JUSTICE SOCIETY, INFINITY, INC., and more!

(256-page trade paperback with COLOR) $31.95

(240-page trade paperback) $26.95

(224-page trade paperbacks) $24.95

Examining the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes, featuring the in-depth stories of the shows’ actors and behind-the-scenes players!

CARMINE INFANTINO

SAL BUSCEMA

(192-page full-color hardcover) $39.95

MARVEL COMICS

MARVEL COMICS

An issue-by-issue field guide to the pop culture phenomenon of LEE, KIRBY, DITKO, and others, from the company’s fumbling beginnings to the full maturity of its wild, colorful, offbeat grandiosity!

IN THE 1960s

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

MODERN MASTERS

HOW TO CREATE COMICS

Covers how Stan Lee went from writer to publisher, Jack Kirby left (and returned), Roy Thomas rose as editor, and a new wave of writers and artists came in!

20+ volumes with in-depth interviews, plus extensive galleries of rare and unseen art from the artist’s files!

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

Shows step-by-step how to develop a new comic, from script and art, to printing and distribution!

(128-page trade paperbacks) $14.95 each

(108-page trade paperback) $15.95

IN THE 1970s

A BOOK SERIES DEVOTED TO THE BEST OF TODAY’S ARTISTS

FROM SCRIPT TO PRINT

FOR A FREE COLOR CATALOG, CALL, WRITE, E-MAIL, OR LOG ONTO www.twomorrows.com

TwoMorrows—A New Day For Comics Fandom!

TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com