Alter Ego #56 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ Superlative Comics Fanzine

6.95

A Sensational Symposium of Super Men!

JERRY SIEGEL No.56 AND JOE SHUSTER The Men Who Midwived

In the USA February 2006

An Industry

NEAL ADAMS & JACK JOE ADLER Production KUBERT &DCColoring Guru Artists Extraordinaire HOWARD STERN Radio/TV Iconoclast

(Oh, Yeah--And Comics Fan!)

Vol. 3, No. 56 / February 2007

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant Eric Nolen-Weathington

Contents Writer/Editorial: Faster Than A Speeding Bullet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 “‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life”. . . . . . . 3

Cover Artist & Colorist

A previously-unpublished 1975 interview with Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel.

Neal Adams

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing!” . . 22

And Special Thanks to:

Corey Adams Joe Kubert Neal Adams Henry Kujawa Jack Adler Michael Lark Heidi Amash Steve Leialoha Manuel Auad Mark Luebker Bob Bailey Paul Levitz Matt D. Baker Alan Light Alberto Becattini Bruce MacIntosh Dean Becker Glenn MacKay John Benson Darrell McNeil Murray Bishoff Jason Millet Bill Black Bruce Mohrhard Bob Brodsky Brian K. Morris Tim Burgard Frank Motler Mike Burkey Mark Muller Pete Carlsson Will Murray Bob Cherry Mike Olzewski Shaun Clancy Jerry Ordway John Costanza Jake Oster Howard Leroy Jason Palmer Davis John G. Pierce Al Dellinges Robert Pincombe Joe Desris Trina Robbins Shel Dorf Alex Ross Harlan Ellison Charlie Roberts Bertil & Cecilia Falk Malcolm Schwartz Shane Foley Joanne Siegel Prof. William H. Joe Sinnott Foster III J. David Spurlock Carl Gafford Jim Steranko Janet Gilbert Howard Stern Dick Giordano Bhob Stewart Scott Goodell Marc Swayze Matt Gore Dann Thomas Andreas Gottschlich Maggie Thompson Jennifer Hamerlinck Anthony Tollin Jack C. Harris Alex Toth Merlin Hass Michael Uslan Daniel Herman Jim Valentino Denys Howard Hames Ware Jon Jensen Ted White Bob Hughes Tom Wimbish Elaine Kane Rodrigo M. Zeidan Keegan Eddy Zeno Rita Kelly Michael Zeno

This Issue Is Dedicated To The Memory Of

Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster and Tom Gill

Jim Amash interviews DC coloring guru Jack Adler on three dynamic DC decades.

Jack Adler’s Cousin–––Howard Stern . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49 The radio/TV iconoclast says: “Jack, to me, was the star of the family.”

“Coloring Really Started To Come Back With Jack Adler” . . . . . . . . . . 52 Legendary artist Neal Adams talks about working with DC’s king of coloring.

Joe Kubert On Jack Adler. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 A Golden Age great, about school and coloring and 3-D—and friendship.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt: Fred Kelly Remembered, Part I . . . . . . . 63 Michael T. Gilbert and Robert Pincombe pay tribute to an artist of Canada’s Golden Age.

“Vive La Différence!” – Alex Toth On Comic Art––– Your Way! . . . 69 The Year of (Nearly) THREE New York Comicons –––Part IV . . . . . 70 Bill Schelly introduces a 1966 Q&A session with the Comics Code’s Leonard Darvin.

Tom Gill (1913-2005): “His Influence Changed Many Lives” . . . . . . . 76 re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77

FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #115. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze, Michael Uslan, & more Brazilian goodies. About Our Cover: Three years back, artist Scott Goodell mailed us a photocopy of a piece of Neal Adams art that really knocked our super-hero socks off—and if you didn’t somehow manage to get this far without first noticing this issue’s cover, you already know why it did! But the funny thing is—neither Neal nor Scott nor Jason Millet, who’d provided Scott with that nice photocopy, has any idea of precisely where (or if) this stellar “3-S” drawing was previously published! All the more reason why Roy is grateful to his former and valued collaborator Neal for allowing us to print it for our decidedly un-stellar rates—and for even coloring it especially for this issue of Alter Ego! [Art ©2006 Neal Adams; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] Above: Maybe even the Man of Tomorrow himself is wondering where Neal’s cover illo first appeared, in this nice Curt Swan/Al Williamson panel from Superman #416 (Feb. 1986)! Reproduced from a photocopy of the original art, sent to us by Eddy Zeno. [©2006 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $72 US, $132 Canada, $144 elsewhere. All characters are ©their respective companies. All material ©their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

Faster Than A Speeding Bullet T

hat’s about how quick we’ll have to be, if we want to squeeze in even a few words before launching into this chock-full issue of Alter Ego.

shorter pieces on that all-important team. Nearly before we began work on it, the issue was full—especially when we counted our regular features, which include a tribute to the late Fred Kelly.

Jack Adler was the kernel of it. Several people, including longtime DC staff colorist Anthony Tollin, said we absolutely had to interview Jack, a kingpin of coloring and production there for several decades, starting in the mid-1940s. Equally important, they insisted, were the myriad photos Jack has taken over the years of comic book talents, including some DC staffers (such as romance editors Phyllis Reed and Zena Brody) whose likenesses had not surfaced elsewhere.

A famous quote comes to mind, from Harriet Beecher Stowe’s immortal novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin, concerning a certain high-spirited slave girl:

Jack was agreeable to an extended interview with Jim Amash (with Jim, nearly all interviews are “extended” ones—not that we’re complaining!). In the meantime, I had the pleasure of spending some time with Jack myself at the 2004 San Diego Comic-Con. (On a bittersweet note, that’s also where I met artist Tom Gill, who passed away recently; a tribute to him is featured in this selfsame issue.) Jack, in turn, asked us to contact artists Neal Adams and Joe Kubert, plus his own cousin, radio/TV personality Howard Stern, for additional comments on his career. And, truth to tell, we’d already thought of the perfect Adams-drawn illo for the cover—one of Superman carrying his creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster on his ample shoulders. This, in turn, spurred us to utilize a previously-unpublished 1975 Siegel & Shuster interview sent to us by Alan Light—as well as two

“Topsy just growed.” So did this very special issue of Alter Ego. Bestest,

P.S.: Jim Amash sent us the following paragraph, which he hoped could be included in this month’s edition, as well. Sam Huffine (1931-2005) was one of my dearest, closest friends. He erased my pages, occasionally filled in my solid black areas, and ruled my panels for most of my comic book career. He helped make what is often a lonely job fun and vibrant with his enthusiasm. He loved comics all his life and was fascinated by its history. Sam represented the very best of comics fans and was the kind of friend one seldom meets in life. The loss is great, but what was gained from his strength is immeasurable. His family and mine will always miss him. –Jim Amash.

COMING IN MARCH

THE GOLDEN AGE OF MARVEL––1939 to 1957! FROM THE HUMAN TORCH TO THE YELLOW CLAW! A Lavishly-Illustrated Index Of Every Timely/Marvel Super-Hero Tale From Comics’ First Two Decades!

• Great new cover! JACK KIRBY’s Captain America, painted by PETE VON SHOLLY! • MIKE NOLAN’s Timely Hero Index—Revised & Updated! Ever hear of The Blue Blaze? The Witness? Captain Terror? Two dynamic decades of story titles & page counts—plus a colorful compendium of additional info provided by ROY THOMAS & A/E’s ever-researching readers! • Rare art & artifacts from and about Timely/Marvel in the 1940s & 50s, by SIMON & KIRBY, EVERETT, BURGOS, LEE, SCHOMBURG, SHORES, AVISON, WOLVERTON, SEKOWSKY, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, AYERS, HECK, COLAN, LAWRENCE, SEVERIN, MANEELY, FELDSTEIN, POWELL, BELLMAN, HEATH, KANE, ROBBINS, FRENZ, BUCKLER, KUPPERBERG, HOOVER, ANACLETO, WEEKS, & others! • GENE COLAN talks (and JIM AMASH listens) about drawing Timely super-heroes in the 1940s! • Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE & the JACK BINDER SHOP—MICHAEL T. GILBERT— & MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS

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“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life” A Never-Before-Published 1975 Interview With JERRY, JOANNE, & LAURA SIEGEL Conducted by Murray Bishoff & Alan Light

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: The following interview with the original writer and co-creator of Superman (as well as his wife and daughter) occurred at the San Diego Comic-Con in August of 1975. At this time, Alan Light’s DynaPubs was publishing The Buyer’s Guide to Comics Fandom as a combination advertising and news journal. The tabloid having only recently become a weekly, Alan was attending numerous comics conventions in its interests. Fan/collector Murray Bishoff wrote a regular column for it. Murray writes: “Someone whose identity will never be known mailed TBG a photocopy of a legal journal’s documentation of the [1948] end of Siegel and Shuster’s longrunning lawsuit against DC over the Superman copyright.” The April 1, 1975, edition of TBG, which was definitely not an April Fool’s issue, carried a column by Murray containing what he calls “the only published account of the story anywhere.” Reading that column led Shel Dorf, co-founder of The Superman Family the San Diego ComicThis photo of Jerry, Joanne, and Laura Siegel was taken at the 1975 San Diego Comic-Con— the selfsame convention at which Alan Light and Murray Bishoff taped this issue’s interview. Photo courtesy of Alan Light. The script page and drawing shown—both courtesy of St. Louis collector Bruce Mohrhard— were done on opposite sides of the same sheet of paper, probably in the very early 1940s, at the latest! The script must be from one of the radio interviews which Jerry mentions he and artist Joe Shuster did in the early days of “Superman”. “Heidt” was probably Horace Heidt, who, as Jim Amash reminds us, was a well-known orchestra leader of the 1930s and’40s who had his own radio show from 1932-53. As to the nice vintage Shuster pencil sketch, Roy Thomas wants to assure one and all that he is not the “Roy” to whom the drawing was dedicated—more’s the pity! [Materials ©2006 the respective copyright holders; art ©2006 Estate of Joe Shuster; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

Con (which was then only five years old) and the Convention Committee to invite Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster to the August event in Southern California. Jerry and his family accepted the invitation. Murray feels strongly that: “It was from this experience at the San Diego Convention that Jerry Siegel got the strength to get back in the fight. For the first time he had felt the support he always should have known from fans. A little over two months later, he went to the national press with his story.” As partly documented in Jim Amash’s interview with artist/writer Jerry Robinson in Alter Ego #39, this set in action a chain of events that led to the announcement circa Christmas 1975 of an agreement between DC Comics and Siegel & Shuster of an annual pension for Superman’s co-creators, and restored credit in both comics and the forthcoming major Superman film. Murray’s fuller account of these happenings, too detailed for inclusion in this issue, will be printed a few issues from now. Meanwhile, our thanks to Alan Light (who provided the 30-year-old audio tape, never before transcribed)

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel and to Murray Bishoff for making this historic conversation available to us.

Some readers, even with the knowledge that things would get far better for both Shuster and the Siegels by year’s end, may find this interview painful to read, at least in part, because of Jerry’s obvious anguish over what had happened to Joe Tripping The Light Fan-tastic and himself. However, Murray Bishoff (left) and Alan Light, because it pulls aside a around the time this interview was curtain on a very important taped. Alan’s publication The Buyer’s Guide to Comics Fandom metamorphosed moment in comics history, we into The Comics Buyer’s Guide after Alan felt it should be published. It sold his interest in it in the 1980s, and it’s had to be edited somewhat still going strong. Murray was a regular for length—and a few columnist for what was then referred to sentences have been omitted as “TBG” rather than “CBG.” Photo simply because they were courtesy of Alan Light. too unclear for certain transcription. Even more problematical was the matter of what to do about certain statements made by the Siegels which in 1975 they did not wish printed. Murray preferred to see the entire interview printed, but deferred to Alan. Here’s what Alan had to say about the matter in 2005: “To get picky and technical, Jerry and Joanne never asked us not to print something; they asked us not to ‘put it on the album.’ They knew we were recording the interview to put on a record. I’d run everything—for two reasons: One: they [the Siegels] made that request [not to print certain portions of the interview] because Jerry was going to ‘write a book and tell all’ himself. He kept saying he wanted to save it for his book No book ever materialized…. Two: if you take that stuff out, there isn’t much of an interview left, is there?… Jerry gave fewer interviews in his life than you can count on one hand’s fingers, so what little we’ve got is still important. The interview is a snapshot of where they were at that time, tears and all. In fact, the latter is what hammers home how traumatic the whole thing was to them. It should all be out there.” Seeing these comments, Murray added: “I’m inclined to go along with Alan for the historical significance of the material. Run it all.” Added to that, from my own point of view, is the fact that virtually all the material which the Siegels understandably held back in 1975, prior to any settlement with DC, is public knowledge today—particularly after the publication in 2004 of Gerard Jones’ excellent book Men of Tomorrow:

Geeks, Gangsters, and the Birth of the Comic Book. If the Siegels had revealed anything that seemed as though it should still be “held back” these three decades later, we would most willingly have omitted it. It certainly would give neither Alan, Murray, nor me any pleasure to read (or to print) anything said by Jerry and Joanne Siegel, whom I also knew personally, though not well, any kind of discomfort. But, for all the reasons stated above, we have decided to run a fairly complete transcription of this essential interview. Please bear in mind one all-important fact: the DC administration to which the Siegels refer is not that of today’s management, nor that of then-publisher/editorial director Carmine Infantino (who had assumed power only in the late 1960s, two decades after Siegel & Shuster’s lawsuit against what was then primarily known as National Comics), but rather the earlier administrations of Harry & Irwin Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz, all of whom were gone from the company by 1975. In addition, we at A/E, while always outspokenly sympathetic to the situation of the originators of the Man of Steel (I personally read a statement in support of them on behalf of the Academy of Comic Book Arts at the crucial 1975 press conference in New York City’s Allied Chemical Tower which led in turn to a maelstrom of media coverage of their case), are acutely aware that other interpretations of events from 1938 on are possible, and we welcome their airing, as well. But the publication of this interview documents a moment in time which in 1975 cast long shadows both back into the decades-distant past of the comics industry, and forward into its then-unglimpsed future. It is both humorous and ironic that the interview begins with a brief discussion of a time long before the San Diego event became the Godzilla of comic book conventions, dwarfing all others:

“Now We’re Really Up On What’s Going On” JOANNE SIEGEL: I understand you have a lot of people from all over the country here. MURRAY BISHOFF: Yeah. The East Coast is the biggest geographic clump of collectors. The

Shel, Siegel, & Shuster (Left:) The first meeting (in Los Angeles, in 1974) between Jerry Siegel (at left) and San Diego Comic-Con co-founder Shel Dorf led to the former’s appearance at the con, which helped bring worldwide attention to the Siegel & Shuster cause. Photo by Malcolm Schwartz. With thanks to Shel. (Above:) The program book for the 1975 San Diego Comic-Con contains no salute to Jerry Siegel; he wanted his attendance there to be kept low-profile. One page of the 1976 program book, however, juxtaposed a “Tribute to Joe Shuster” written by Jerry, and the above sketch by Shuster done for Shel. By this time, Siegel & Shuster had made their settlement with DC, and could look forward to pensions and restored credit. Jerry wrote in the tribute that Joe’s original rendition of the Man of Tomorrow “was absolutely inspired. There was a nobility, a grace, a force of sheer power, an imaginativeness, a touch of class, a drama, a glint of humor, that reflected certain unique elements in the characters of Joe himself.” [Art ©2006 Estate of Joe Shuster; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life”

New York/New Jersey/Pennsylvania/Massachusetts area there is just one huge glob of collectors. There’s no other geographic part of the country that even comes close to that. JERRY SIEGEL: Tell me, Murray, is this the secondbiggest convention in the country? How does it rank with New York? MB: This is about, I believe, the second-biggest. The New York convention is known for pandemonium. [laughs] They have a lot of fans come flowing in, and sometimes the dealers room is about three times the size of this one here. ALAN LIGHT: This is a lot more fun than the New York conventions. This is so much more personable.

MB: There’s so many wonderful people here, and we’ve just had an incredible amount of fun. Usually, you go to conventions and you work, and in the evenings you’re ready to get out and run around town a little.

(Right:) Already in these two panels—the very first in which Lois Lane ever appeared, in Action Comics #1 (June 1938)—the dynamic between Lois and Clark was firmly established for another half century or so. Fortunately, Joanne and Jerry got along far better. Script by Jerry Siegel; art by Joe Shuster. [©2006 DC Comics.]

JERRY: Well, now that you [The Buyer’s Guide for Comics Fandom] are coming out weekly, and some of these conventions are proliferating, I imagine it could cut a great deal into your time, and you have these problems of turning out your weekly publications and all the others. AL: Yeah, my mom is home, putting this issue to bed. [laughs] She’s been practicing for two weeks. JERRY: I often wonder how you fellows manage to do that. You’re turning out such a tremendous production, and there must be a million and one details, and everything has got to be just right. JOANNE: Which is the oldest convention? Is it the New York? MB: Yes. It started in ’64. This one’s a relatively new one. The science-fiction conventions started out in something like ’37, I think [NOTE: Actually 1939. –Roy.]. Something like two dozen people got together. It really takes a dedicated person to decide, “We’re going to have a convention,” and he’s got to be willing to put up with a lot of crap to get it done. JOANNE: Well, Shel [Dorf] and Richard Buckner certainly were busy, busy. They were lovely people, too. And we’re delighted to meet you, Alan. JERRY: You two are a lesson to us, after all. [laughs] Now we get your publication every week and we avidly turn to it. Now we’re really up on what’s going on. JOANNE: Right, because it’s difficult when you’re incognito and in seclusion.

“Joe [Shuster] Always Worked Under The Handicap Of Bad Vision” JERRY: I want to thank both of you so very, very much for not only the mentions that you gave me, which brought me here in the very first place, but [for] some of the photographs you’ve run in recent issues, such as of Shel and myself. I wouldn’t be here except for your people, and particularly Murray and his column. I sent Joe [Shuster] a copy of your column… and he was very, very touched and very happy. He’s off in New York. He doesn’t attend conventions at present. JOANNE: We asked him if he wanted to attend and he said no, he’s not ready for it. JERRY: However, he did indicate that, depending on circumstances, perhaps he might be able to go in the future. JOANNE: Perhaps. But of course he’s over there, and with us, it’s a couple of hours’ drive. But he couldn’t afford the trip. He can barely exist. JERRY: Well, we’ve had so many traumatic happenings happen to both of us, we wanted to be in seclusion for a very long time. Joe may be coming out of it. AL: How is his health? Is it good? JERRY: It’s not too good. He took care of his mother, who passed away before Thanksgiving, and he never married. JOANNE: So he and his brother are bachelors trying to keep each other going. JERRY: Joe always worked under the handicap of bad vision. Working on “Superman”—though I guess if he had been working on anything else, the same thing would have happened—did continue to damage his vision because of the exacting work that had to be done. He gave everything… [chokes] he didn’t receive enough. JOANNE: Maybe we can get into something else for a while… [Continued on p.7]

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel

Sidebar On The Origins Of Superman: Excerpts From 1976 & 1985 Interviews With SIEGEL & SHUSTER Conducted By Mike Olzewski, With Bertil Falk

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Recently, we received the accompanying photos and excerpts from a pair of interviews given separately by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster to two fans/collectors, Mike Olzewski and Bertil Falk. When writer Siegel was interviewed in Sweden in 1985, Bertil Falk asked him how he came to create “Superman”: BERTIL FALK: It happened on a summer night, way back in the 1930s, in Cleveland, Ohio. That I know, but can you tell us the story? JERRY SIEGEL: That night, I kept getting more and more ideas and kept getting up and writing down more and more scripts. And when the morning came around, I had a great deal of material written, and I flew like Superman over to Joe’s house. It was about nine blocks away. He got very, very excited and got to work immediately, and he, too, turned out a great deal of the art very, very quickly. In his own 1975 interview with Falk, artist Joe Shuster described what happened after Jerry Siegel arrived at his home on Amor Avenue on that fateful day: JOE SHUSTER: Jerry Siegel rushed over to my house, and we sat down at the drawing board and he explained it to me. I started to draw it, and I conceived the character in my mind’s eye to have a very, very colorful costume of a cape and, you know, very, very colorful tights and boots and the letter “S” on his chest. FALK: You did that, not Siegel?

Man Of Steel = Steelman Later, Superman was called “Stålmannen” (Steelman) in Swedish, as seen on the cover of Jules Verne Magasinet/The Adventures of the Week #13 (1942) at left. At right is another Superman-starring cover from 1942. Thanks to Bertil Falk. [Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

SHUSTER: Yes, yes. I did that, because that was my concept from what he described, but he did inspire me, because he said that this would be a super-super character that people would recognize instantly and identify with. Each child and each reader would identify with this character. And he can do anything in the world. The main thing that we had in mind—I think we were both very idealistic at that time— was to have one hero, a super-hero, who would stand for justice and for truth and honesty and would overcome the evils of the world. You know, it’s a concept which probably goes back in years

Maybe That Big Red “S” Stands For—“Sweden” Two art spots from a 1941 issue of the weekly Swedish science-fiction publication Jules Verne Magasinet, which contained the article “’Titanens’ Födelse”—“Titan’s Birth.” In that country, the feature was originally called “Titanen från Krypton” (“Titan from Krypton”); coloring was the same as in the US, except that Superman’s tights (as seen between trunks and boots) were yellow, not blue! That’s Jerry (drawing) and Joe (standing) in the illo at center, of course. [Art ©2006 the respective copyright holders; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life”

2000 Words’ Worth Of Pictures (Left:) Joe Shuster in Queens, 1975. Photo by Bertil Falk. (Right:) From l. to r.—Stephan Linnér, cultural editor of the daily Evening Post in Malmö, Sweden—Joanne Siegel—Bertil Falk—and Jerry Siegel. Photo by Cecilia Falk.

and years and in literary history. Because, of course, there was Robin Hood, and perhaps other famous literary characters, but our concept would be to combine the best traits of all the heroes of history that had ever lived, that had ever existed. FALK: Doc Savage already existed then, right? He was called “superman.” SHUSTER: He was called a “superman,” because the word “superman” was in existence among science-fiction fans. It was limited, but it was used. And we decided that was the embodiment of all the super traits that one person can have, so we simply called him Superman. And I designed the three-dimensional block letters that are identified in the title.

It can be argued that Siegel and Shuster borrowed heavily from their Jewish heritage in creating their “Man of Steel.” Arie Kaplan has pointed out, in his article “How the Jews Created the Comic

Book Industry” [in the Fall 2003 issue of Reform Judaism magazine], that Superman may have been born out of his creators’ search for an imaginary hero to “liberate them from the social and economic impoverishment of their lives.” He also quotes comics great Will Eisner, best known as the originator of The Spirit, who likened Superman to a descendant of sorts of the Golem, an unstoppable hero created by the rabbi of Prague, Czechoslovakia, to protect the embattled Jewish people from the evils of the world. Kaplan further points out that Superman’s Kryptonian name, “Kal-El,” can be translated as “All that is God” in Hebrew. He also likens his flight to Earth in a rocket ship to escape his dying planet to that of Moses, whose parents sent him down the Nile in a basket to escape the Pharaoh’s order to kill young Jewish males. Moses later ascended to power, and led his people to a greater future. [Main text in this sidebar ©2006 Mike Olzewski & Bertil Falk.]

[Continued from p. 5]

MB: [claps] Oh, that’s fabulous.

FALK: Like this. [Shows Shuster a newspaper sales ad using the phrase “Super Saturday,” designed with the three-dimensional Superman lettering] SHUSTER: Yes, exactly. Isn’t that terrific? Do you have an extra? That was the concept I designed the letters in. And then, after that, we continued on, and at that time we thought we might be able to sell it to a newspaper syndicate, because we felt that it would be most successful being sold to a newspaper syndicate.

“Lois Lane In The Living, Palpitating Flesh” AL: Fine. Where do you live up in the Los Angeles area? JOANNE: We live near Santa Monica, and we don’t want to give out our address, of course. AL: Yes, of course. But I’m sure we have it. [chuckles] JOANNE: I know—but I don’t know what you’re going to do with the tapes. [chuckles] JERRY: By the way, it’s hasn’t ever been mentioned, except in a recent interview that appeared in the Sunday edition of the San Diego Union, that my wife Joanne was the original model for the Lois Lane character. When Superman first appeared, she actually posed for the character for Joe, and so here you are, gentlemen, Lois Lane in the living, palpitating flesh.

JOANNE: [chuckles] I have a secret identity, revealed at last. But we were all youngsters then, and I was a skinny little kid. I wanted to earn money on Saturdays, so I put an ad in the Situation Wanted [section] of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. I didn’t know anything about modeling, but I was like Jerry and Joe, very gutsy for my age. I got a lot of mail, mostly from guys who wanted dates [laughs] because I put “attractive model”—I figured I had to put something in there, you know, to get some mail. So Joe wrote me a letter. He said he was looking for a model to pose for a comic strip and would pay me $1.50 an hour, which was very good money then. JERRY: It was like $1500 an hour nowadays. [chuckles] JOANNE: And I felt, well, that was pretty good for Saturday, because people used to work all day for that kind of money then. He didn’t have a phone and neither did I, so we had to correspond. Everybody was broke in those days. He said if I was interested, I should come to his apartment at 2:00 the following Saturday. It was a freezing-cold January

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel longest time, and finally I said, “Does Mr. Shuster know I’m here?” [chuckles] And he said, “I’m Mr. Shuster.” [laughs] JERRY: I used to think that this was just a little girl in high school. JOANNE: He was in senior high and I was in junior high, but he was same height as I was, and I thought he was just “Mr. Shuster’s” younger brother, because I didn’t know who “Mr. Shuster” was. So that was my first modeling job. He said, “Did you ever have any experience?” And I said, “In front of the bedroom mirror,” and he laughed because that’s the way they were starting, too.

Fifty Years—And Counting Maybe the 1975 San Diego Comic-Con didn’t have a chance to feature Jerry Siegel in its 1975 program book—but when the 50th anniversary of the debut of “Superman” rolled around in 1988, it made up for it, starting with a Wayne Boring painting as the cover. (Boring was one of the first assistants hired by Siegel & Shuster during the 1938-39 period.) DC Comics sponsored one page (with no credits for the illo)—Jim Valentino drew a loving caricature of Jerry & Joe—and Steve Leialoha drew Milt Caniff’s Dragon Lady reading Superman #1. (For another connection between the Man of Steel and Terry and the Pirates, see p. 11!) Thanks to Mike Catron for the copy of the cover, and to Shel Dorf for the rest. [Art ©2006 Estate of Wayne Boring, DC Comics, Jim Valentino, and Steve Leialoha, respectively; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

day—and I just about froze by the time I got to his apartment. I had never had any experience modeling, so I used to read the Street & Smith magazines and the fashion magazines. I knew a local junkman who used to let me have all the magazines, and when I brought them back the following week, he’d let me take some more, so I never had to buy the magazines. I’d copy all the glamour poses of that era. All the illustrators used to use girls instead of photos for their stories. I posed in front of the bedroom mirror; I practiced different poses and memorized them. When I went up to Joe Shuster’s place, my heart was pounding. I knocked on the door, and a boy my size, wearing glasses, opened the door a crack, and I said, “I’m the model Mr. Shuster wrote to.” So he opened the door and he motioned me in. We hit it off right away. We started talking about movies, we were talking about everything, and I was thawing out. And a woman stuck her head out of the kitchen and said, “Hello”—an older woman—and a little girl ran through the living room, chased by a little boy, and out again. And we were talking for the

So I posed for him, and his mother would look in, and I was turning blue. My sister’s bathing suit was too big, so I pinned it in the back. And he said, “Never mind. I’ll put a little bit more here and a little bit more there.” But he used my face and my hairdo and my poses that just made me look more voluptuous—and older. I had to be older.

AL: What were you modeling for? JOANNE: Lois Lane. Joe had won an art scholarship contest held by The Shopping News, and I guess he went in the summertime and took the course.

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life”

JOANNE: And of course, she looks a little like Lois Lane, too. [Laura laughs] LAURA: [laughs] It’s the family resemblance. JERRY: She’s the spitting image of Supergirl, also. JOANNE: Yes. [Laura laughs] I’m her personal manager— so that keeps me busy, because whenever you’re creative, you need someone to encourage you, you see? And I know a bit about show business, having been on the fringes from way back… which is another story, which we’ll get into sometime. LAURA: It’s very interesting, and the two fields are related. Comics, of course, is my dad’s big thing. I’m in show business, but I’m also interested in doing animation voicing. I was almost one of the voices on Valley of the Dinosaurs this last year. [laughs] I came fairly close to being the modern woman who went back to the cave times, and they also tried me out for the cave girl on that, but they decided they wanted to go just a little bit older on the voice. Still, the people over there are very nice, so hopefully, either at Hanna-Barbera or somewhere else, I’ll be able to do that eventually. And that’s kind-of an interesting link between comics and my family background and my own career. JERRY: When Laura was a little girl, she was quite a comics fan herself. Could you tell them a little about your favorite comic book strips? LAURA: Well, I started out loving Little Lulu. [laughs] JERRY: That’s right. So did I.

Family Feud Because, as the ultimate irony, Captain Marvel was licensed by DC in the early 1970s and was purchased outright some years later, he and his Fawcett-spawned Family have battled Superman countless times in comic books since they faced off in court. Here, Cap, Mary Marvel, and Captain Marvel Jr. battle the Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern on the cover of All-Star Squadron #37 (Sept. 1984), as delineated by Rick Hoberg (penciler) & Jerry Ordway (inker). Repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Jerry. For more of the same, reserve your copy of The All-Star Companion, Vol. 2, due out from TwoMorrows in June of this year. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“[Our Daughter Laura] Was Quite A Comics Fan Herself” JERRY: By the way, my daughter Laura was in a CBS-TV show as a regular member of the cast of Sons and Daughters last season, and she’s been active in a number of other TV things. Perhaps she could tell you so herself. Laura?

LAURA: I loved Little Lulu and Tubby. I thought they were just great. And one very nice lady sitting next to me at the brunch [at the con] started talking to me about Katy Keene and reminded me that I used to read Katy Keene. I hadn’t thought about that for years. She said, “I didn’t even see any Katy Keene books downstairs in the dealers room. I was really upset.” Brenda Starr was another favorite of mine from the strips. JOANNE: Oh, yes, I loved Brenda Starr, too. Did you ever hear of a comic book called Kewpies? I have, perhaps, the first issue. I don’t know how I got it, but I have it. JERRY: It was done by Will Eisner, who’s a guest here. He did a fantastic job.

LAURA: It’s really adorable, it’s just darling. She has it.

“Very Strong Duplications, And—Let’s Come Out And Say—’Plagiarisms’” AL: How many old comics do you still have? JERRY: Well, I used to have hundreds of them, but most of them are gone now.

LAURA SIEGEL: Well, I’m doing guest shots and commercials and things. Of course, the biggest thing that happened to me was getting a co-starring role on the series. Even though it didn’t last very long, it was really exciting for a newcomer to have something like that.

JOANNE: We sold a great many of them when we were starving, very literally. We had to sell in order to pay our rent.

AL: I thought she looked familiar when I first saw her. Maybe that’s why.

JERRY: And I do have a lot of the very first issues of the “Superman” material, but that’s in the hands of my attorneys.

LAURA: [laughs] You mean you saw the show? Oh, my God. [laughs] Well, the fast Neilsens this year kind-of cut it to the quick, just as we were building an audience.

AL: Were you involved with the Superman versus Captain Marvel lawsuit? JERRY: I wonder if I should even go into that. I can say that I did [Continued on p.11]

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel

Super-Sidebar:

Superman and Joe Shuster In World War II by Charlie Roberts

’ve been a lifelong fan of Joe Shuster’s art, and I enjoy the “thrill of the hunt” in trying to track down obscure examples of his work. Shuster was obviously influenced by the wonderful pen lines and characters of the Wash Tubbs comic strip by creator Roy Crane; Alex Raymond’s Secret Agent X-9, Flash Gordon, and Jungle Jim; and the art deco architecture of the 1930s. One can well imagine Joe (and possibly Jerry Siegel) traveling from Cleveland to the Chicago World’s Fair in 1933 or 1934 and seeing all the futuristic buildings and displays, and likely going to the Buck Rogers exhibit. Before “Superman,” “Slam Bradley” in early issues of Detective Comics was Siegel and Shuster’s most famous creation. Slam is Flash Gordon/X-9, and his sidekick Shorty would fit right into Wash Tubbs. My favorite comic book cover is Superman #1. Smiling and confident, Superman is virtually floating above the art deco metropolis below. A few years ago, I stumbled across two examples of Shuster’s specialty art of “Superman” I hadn’t seen before. The first is designed like a school yearbook but was done for a World War II Seabees battalion. Titled The 30th Log Battalion Biography, Vol. Two, it was published in late 1945. It’s an 8" x 10" deep blue hardcover with spine and front cover stamped in gold. It has 378 slick paper pages with numerous photos of the Navy’s construction battalion team and their activities. Near the back are eight pages of comic art done especially for this volume. One full page has a threepanel “Superman” strip. A Naval commander asks for Superman’s help; Superman rushes across the ocean, only to find the Seabees have already done the job. The art is signed in the bottom panel by Shuster, who has

Superman And The Seabees Images from The 30th Log – A Battalion Biography, Vol. 2, published in late 1945 by the 30th US Navy Construction Battalion, courtesy of collector Charlie Roberts: (a) A 3-panel Superman sequence, as apparently penciled and inked by Joe—with the bottom panel signed, which is fairly unusual. That Shuster kid still had it! Matter of fact, Charlie tells us that Joe’s brother Frank was the main letterer, which would explain why the lettering is similar to DC lettering of the period. (b) A photo of Joe (plus his inscription) which was printed on the same page—only his last name was misspelled by the typesetter! [Material ©2006 the respective copyright holders; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

also inscribed it. Nearby is an inset photo of Shuster (with his name misspelled “Schuster”!) working on a Superman Sunday page. The other pages have art by Milton Caniff, Daniel Fitzpatrick, and Patricia Stapleton. I’d guess the print run on this volume was 1000 copies, at most. The second example is a bimonthly fraternity publication, The Magazine of SIGMA CHI, issue for Feb.-March 1945. It’s 6 7/8" x 9H", with 160 pages. This is a special issue dedicated to the 10th anniversary of Terry and the Pirates and creator/fraternity member Milton Caniff. Pages 4 through 52 have full-page specialty drawings by numerous artists, including Superman flying with Terry. I doubt that, in 1935, either Joe Shuster or Milton Caniff had anticipated how popular their respective characters would be—especially Shuster! Other artists represented include Hal Foster, Harold Gray, Petty, Ray Bailey, Chic Young, Walt Disney, Bill Holman, and Crockett Johnson. The print run on this issue is likely less than 5000.

Two Legends—Airborne Joe Shuster’s 1945 illustration of Superman flying with Terry Lee, star of Milton Caniff’s super-popular comic strip Terry and the Pirates. With thanks to Charlie Roberts. [Art ©2006 the respective copyright holders; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

There may well be other Superman specialty pieces in other obscure publications from World War II or earlier; and there may be similar obscure publications with Batman, Captain America, or other comic book heroes. I’m sure that, if someone wishes to share something from his collection, space can be found in Alter Ego!

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life” [Continued from p. 9] furnish Detective [National/DC] with a bunch of clips of “Superman” material and “Captain Marvel” material, which I felt were very strong duplications, and—let’s come out to say—“plagiarisms.” And I believe they did base quite a bit of their case on this material that I supplied to them.

“Now… [Jack Kirby] Is One Of The New Gods Himself” Jack Kirby drew a fair number of Superman pages in the 1970s— though often with Murphy Anderson faces and “S”-symbols superimposed on his work—but here’s the real deal; Kirby’s unpublished cover pencils for a late-1980s issue of the Super Powers mini-series, reprinted from an art catalog. [©2006 DC Comics.]

MB: You did feel, in 1940, when “Captain Marvel” came out, that it was definitely— JERRY: I felt that a Mongoloid idiot [chuckles] would have come to the same conclusion, because they both did the same things. They both had super-strength, they both wore costumes, they both had similar identities. The front covers of the first issues had the same scene of the characters destroying an automobile with villains in it and was just tremendously close. And the court did rule there was an obvious plagiarism. I don’t know whether you should use that particular quote because, after all, it does go into legal matters. But actually, it’s all on the court records, though I’m sure that certain people would want to disguise it now.

“I Think [Joe Shuster & Bob Kane] Used To Double-Date On Occasion” MB: Were you familiar with any of the other cartoonists in the old days, like, say, Bob Kane? JERRY: I would meet them up the offices of National, and I saw Bob Kane a few times socially. Joe Shuster would see him more frequently than I. As a matter of fact, I think they used to double-date on occasion. MB: Did you know Mr. [Jack] Kirby back in those days? JERRY: Yes, I did meet him a few times, and I have, of course, tremendous respect for his work. And now I think he is one of the New Gods himself. [laughs] Really, really, he is just fantastic, a great, great talent and a wonderful human being. JOANNE: He impressed me as a very lovely person. JERRY: He is so humble and human about it all, and his head hasn’t expanded at all, and I just have tremendous admiration for him in every way. AL: Who else did you know back in the ’40s? JOANNE: Well, we went to the ball. I met Ham Fisher [creator of Joe Palooka] through you [Jerry].

interviews on the radio shows are made on disks—and Jerry bought some of those and we have some of them. They are real collector’s items. JERRY: But in view of what has happened, I rarely play them because I get such awful pangs. And Joe Shuster wouldn’t want to hear them at all. He feels even worse about it than I do.

“There Were Many Inspirations That Went Into ‘Superman’” MB: You were connected with the Superman strip until the war [World War II], is that correct? JERRY: That’s right. Well, no, even longer—because when I came out of the war, I resumed my association. I was on the strip from the very beginning all the way through to 1948 when we had our first legal action. When I was away in the Army, that’s when began this system of ghosting, and there’s some things I would love very, very much to say now [chuckles], keeping details of why I was off Superman, and that was the beginnings of it. But I guess I’ll just have to save it for some other occasion. I mean, it just didn’t happen by accident. Certain things happened which were very harmful to Joe…. JOANNE: No one goes into litigation if it’s not necessary. JERRY: That’s right, without cause. But anyway, I worked on it [the “Superman” comic book feature] from the very beginnings in 1938, though we actually started on the strip back in about 1933. It took us about six years, approximately, to sell the thing. I was on it till 1948, then I was off it for about ten years. And then I went back on writing for National Periodicals again in 1959. Then I worked for them with no byline, at regular page rates, from 1959 through 1966, when the litigation resumed. During that period, I was writing for the “Superman” family of comics, including Superman, Superboy, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, “The Legion of Super-Heroes,” “Tales of the Bizarro World,” etc. AL: Were you familiar with the Superman cartoons like the one we saw last night [at the comicon]? JERRY: Yes, yes. That was full animation, and they did a great job. They adhered very closely to the way we were doing it at that time. Superman was lither; he had more of a compact, powerful form. I think that Joe’s version is more of the ideal version of a Superman, and I’m not too happy with what’s happened since. MB: Yeah. Now, you said you started it up about 1933. How closely is Doc Savage a “relative” of Superman?

JERRY: Oh, Al Capp [Li’l Abner] and Ham Fisher. I met Gus Edson [The Gumps/Dondi] very briefly. And I would be interviewed, and during some of the interviews on the radio, I would meet people like Billy DeBeck [Barney Google] and Milton Caniff [Terry and the Pirates/Steve Canyon] and people of that sort.

JERRY: Well, that goes back so doggone many years. That’s about 40 years ago. Of course I read Doc Savage [pulp magazine] at that time, but that is so long ago that I can’t really intelligently answer that question.

JOANNE: When they [Jerry and Joe] were first getting publicity [in the early 1940s], they were asked to appear on some radio shows. And the

JOANNE: There were many inspirations that went into “Superman,” not just one. It evolved.

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel

“The Final Result…Did Have The Spirit of Joe” MB: Now, Mr. Shuster worked with you up until ’48? JERRY: That’s right. We were associated together for that full period. MB: How did he handle the artwork, say after 1940 when it was obvious he was not doing it all himself?

The Savage And The Cel (Above:) A 1934 ad for the new Doc Savage pulp magazine referred to the hero as “superman”—but Joe Shuster insisted it was only as “a superman,” and definitely lower-case! [©2006 the respective copyright holders.] (Right:) In his 1998 volume Superman: The Complete History, author Les Daniels showcased a rare animation cel “from an unreleased 1940 Fleischer test reel, prepared a year before the first [Superman] cartoon was released.” He even turned up the original layout drawing for that cel! [©2006 DC Comics.]

JERRY: Oh, yes, there were, exactly, many, many. But I’ll be going into that in my book. There were very many influences. AL: Are you writing the book now? JERRY: Well, I did start working on it, but for various complex reasons, I don’t know exactly what will happen. There are so many fantastic, unbelievable things that happened that I think, if it is ever published, it will be an extremely unusual book. It will be unlike any other book about the comic industry that’s ever been published—

JERRY: What happened, of course, is that there was so much to be done, that obviously he needed a staff. He supervised them pretty closely. Sometimes he would make sketches himself and on other occasions, other people would make sketches— JOANNE: He would correct them. JERRY: And a number of artists who did make the sketches—actually, their sketches just weren’t satisfactory, and Joe would work over them and almost completely alter them till they were recognizable. Readers may jump to the conclusion that Joe Shuster didn’t actually draw the thing, that other people worked on it; but the final result did have the spirit of Joe, and quite often he did do a great deal of work on it. And in many instances, he insisted on inking the Superman heads and the heads of the other leading characters, at least for a long time. JOANNE: And he was particularly good with faces.

JOANNE: And we’ll set the record straight on a lot of misinformation. JERRY: Because this will get down to the very nitty nitty gritty gritty— if it is ever completely written and if it is ever published. Then, who knows? JOANNE: The reason is, a great deal of it is very traumatic and painful to write about. He had many starts and had to give up because he couldn’t handle it emotionally. JERRY: [chuckles] Because that enters into the area of I’ll Cry Tomorrow and books of that sort, only it happens to deal with the comic book industry. And so many gruesome things happened that it would be just completely different from any other book on the comics. JOANNE: And it was his entire life.

60 Years—And Still Counting When Superman’s 60th anniversary came around in 1998, the San Diego Comic-Con’s program book featured an Alex Ross painting on the cover—and literally dozens of artistic tributes inside. One of the best was Tim Burgard’s. Thanks to Shel Dorf. [©DC Comics & Tim Burgard, respectively; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life”

JERRY: Oh, yes. He got something almost mystical in his faces I don’t think anyone else has ever caught since. JOANNE: We think that too much sophistication came later, [which] was distracting and a deterrent rather than an addition. Up to a point, it was good, but then they almost got Superman looking mean. JERRY: There’s a definite charm about the earlier ones. I would have preferred continuing doing it the way the thing was in the original, but great pressure was brought on Joe and me to conform to what they [DC’s editors and publishers] felt comic books should be—that the comic books should be closer to the pulp publications—so we had to endure that pressure. JOANNE: At that time, too, comics were very simple, simply drawn. The Katzenjammer Kids didn’t look like real people; neither did Andy Gump. They were caricatures. But the things they [Jerry and Joe] were involved in, even though they were very outlandish, were more believable to the readers, because [the characters] looked like people—they weren’t like Bringing Up Father. JERRY: You said something about how we all worked in front of mirrors. Well, that actually was true in the case of Joe Shuster, because quite often, he would work—and I guess many other artists do the same thing—with a mirror in front of him. And quite often, he would pose himself for the expressions of the character. He’d grimace, he’d look mad with rage, or he’d look sublimely happy, or whatever the scene called for.

That Wonderful Year—1938!? Between Nazi Germany’s annexation of Austria and much of Czechoslovakia and Japan’s continuing aggression in China, 1938 wasn’t exactly a banner year for world peace. However, every year has a silver lining or two: (Left:) 1938 was also the year in which “Superman” debuted, as per artist Keegan’s tribute to Siegel & Shuster, from the San Diego Comic-Con’s 1998 program book. (Note the copy of Doc Savage and the earliest edition of Philip Wylie’s novel Gladiator on the table—both often cited as possible influences on the lads’ Superman concept.) Thanks to Shel Dorf. [©2006 Keegan.] (Right:) 1998 was likewise the 60th anniversary of the panic-inducing radio adaptation by Orson Welles and company of H.G. Wells’ The War of the Worlds—and the 100th anniversary of the magazine premiere of Wells’ novel, prior to book publication in 1899! To honor the Wells novel as well as Jerry & Joe, writer Roy Thomas and artist Michael Lark teamed up on the “Elseworlds” graphic novel Superman: The War of the Worlds, in which Wells’ Martians attacked the Earth in the same year the Last Son of Krypton made his debut in Depression-era America. Because of delays, however, the g.n. actually saw print with a 1999 date. [©2006 DC Comics.]

JOANNE: But actually, it was you [Jerry] that was Clark Kent and Superman, the face and head, because I remember your standing there one time and saying, “Make him stand like Douglas Fairbanks.” JERRY: Well, I used to pose sometimes for Joe in different scenes. I’d take a crouching scene or I would indicate the way I wanted the character to be in action occasionally. JOANNE: And he’d pose—not pose the way I did—and they would be together so often that Joe got his likeness, because I’ve got a picture of him [Superman] and it looks just like [Jerry]. And I think he [Joe] kindof patterned Jimmy Olsen after himself. JERRY: Of course, Joe carried the propensity or the bulk of the art, of the inception. But in the beginning, we worked very, very closely together on the way the characters should be depicted and costumed, etc. JOANNE: Of course, most artists put themselves into their own work.

“I Just Couldn’t Bring Myself To Say Hello” AL: Do you have any opinion on the Superman television show? JERRY: Well, there again, I start answering an area that probably would

go in the book. But it was tremendously frustrating to me to not be earning one cent from Superman and to read in the paper that a $25 million dollar deal had been signed, while my family and I were practically on the verge of starvation. MB: Surely, surely. Did you ever meet Mr. Reeves? JERRY: My wife did, not I. JOANNE: Yes. Strangely enough, long before he ever got to be Superman in television, I met him in Los Angeles, and we became very good friends, and he never knew I had posed for Lois Lane. We never talked about that. He was a bit player and a stand-in, and he was doing movie work, and I was working in a club as a cigarette girl. I was much too young to do it, but I got away with it because when they’d say, “Well, are you really that age?” and I’d say, “You want to see my birth certificate?” And they’d say, “Well, all right. Never mind.” [laughs] And I don’t know what I’d have done if they’d asked me [for proof], but when you need a job, you have to be gutsy. We [George Reeves and I] became very good friends. He was like a brother to me, and he used to stop in every night, and we talked and we became very good friends. And then, years later, he became Superman on television, and it was strange because I had posed and he never knew that. JERRY: And then there was a strange experience where my wife and I were walking down the streets of New York one day, and walking right

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel MB: I guess you’ve never met Kirk Alyn either, then. [NOTE: Kirk Alyn portrayed Superman in the 1948 and 1950 movie serials, the first-ever liveaction dramatic presentations of the Man of Steel. –Roy.] JERRY: Yes, we’ve met Kirk Alyn, and he’s such a wonderful guy. I love him. He has a wonderfully warm personality. JOANNE: We met him at Forrest Ackerman’s party. That must have been about four years ago. [NOTE: Early science-fiction fan Forrest J. Ackerman was then editor/co-creator of the legendary Warren magazine Famous Monsters of Filmland.]

The Four (No, Five) (No, Six) First Supermen (Left:) Also in the 1998 San Diego Comic-Con program book was Jason Palmer’s tribute to the four most prominent actors to play Superman in dramatic presentations: Kirk Alyn, George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, and Dean Cain of TV’s Lois and Clark. [Art ©2006 Jason Palmer; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] (Above, center:) Lest we forget, however, Bob Holliday played the Man of Steel in 1966, in the original run of the Broadway musical It’s a Bird, It’s a Plane, It’s Superman. As noted in Amazing World of DC Comics #7 (July 1975), Holliday “also recorded a Superman record, appeared as the Man of Steel in a TV ad, and in a short film produced for showing during the play.” Patricia Marand played Lois Lane. [Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] (Right:) Surely the very first person ever to portray Superman, however, was Ray Middleton, who donned a Superman suit for the New York World’s Fair, circa April 1939! Along with the big “S,” the costume’s chest emblem sported the hero’s name—not quite as well known 67 years ago as it is today! According to Les Daniels, Middleton “later starred on Broadway in hits like South Pacific and Annie Get Your Gun.” [Superman TM & ©2006 DC

towards us was George Reeves, the fella who portrayed Superman on television. JOANNE: He was wearing a brown leather jacket, very deep in thought, and walking by, he didn’t see us. I said, “There’s George.” JERRY: And my wife said to me, “Jerry, why don’t you say hello?” I had never met him in person. Well, here I was, walking along with practically nothing in my pocket, with Superman gone forever as far as I was concerned, and I just couldn’t bring myself to say hello. JOANNE: And that was the last time we ever saw [Reeves] personally.

Look! Up In the Trees… By sheer coincidence, 1975, the year the Siegels attended their first San Diego Comic-Con, was also the 100th anniversary of the birth of Edgar Rice Burroughs, author/creator of two heroic concepts which are generally held to have influenced the birth of Superman: Tarzan of the Apes and John Carter of Mars. The latter had super-strength and leaped great distances on the Red Planet, whose capital was a city called Helium. Longtime Tarzan comic book & comic strip artist Russ Manning drew this celebration of ERB for the program book. Thanks to Shel Dorf. [©2006 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

JERRY: I’ll never forget listening to him tell about his experience as Superman! Though, of course, I never received a cent from the Superman serials, either. But still, meeting the fella—his charm is so infectious and he’s such a great guy that I really loved and enjoyed meeting him very much, and I think very highly of him as a talent and as a person. MB: Have you kept track of the Superman character today? JERRY: I haven’t watched it too closely, because it’s a traumatic thing for me.

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life” JOANNE: It’s like a stab in the heart. We can’t watch it.

was kidding around quite a bit when he was tearing tanks apart and kicking airplane squadrons here and there and everywhere, so there was a spirit of fun in the thing. And as a matter of fact, Joe and I, when we first started going into comics, had intended to do a comedy strip, so we were very comedy-oriented and that’s why “Superman” did have this sort of comedy flair to it.

JERRY: I have seen changes in the format which I think are made just for the sake of change itself, and I don’t think that it really is that much of an advance. JOANNE: When things were real bad for us, if Superman came on television, we’d turn it off. MB: Do you think that, the way comic books are today, supposedly so much more sophisticated than they were in the old days, your vision of Superman would be the proper one to go back to?

JOANNE: And it had adventure and science-fiction and comedy and a touch of realism. And the people looked real, although the situations were fantasy, wish fulfillment. It was the Depression. Everyone wanted someone to rescue him from his terrible life.

JERRY: Well, if I had any say-so, I see no reason at all why there couldn’t be some editions of Superman that did follow that format. I don’t think it would be harmful. It might even be helpful and might round out the character. There might be millions of people out there who would like a simpler, more direct, but very powerful version of Superman.

“Everyone Wanted Someone To Rescue Him From His Terrible Life” MB: You actually never had Superman being totally invulnerable— JERRY: No, no.

A Super Sensahuma! Although a huge fan of the Golden Age “Captain Marvel,” Ye Ed wholeheartedly agrees with Jerry Siegel’s 1975 assertion that there was a lot more humor in early “Superman” stories than they’re often given credit for—including this Siegelscripted page from the tale “When Titans Clash” in Superman #17 (July-Aug. 1942), where the hero jokes with Luthor, who had gained fantastic powers (though not yet a first name) from the mysterious Powerstone. From Superman Archives, Vol. 5; art by John Sikela of the Shuster shop. For other examples of Jerry’s oft-humorous approach to super-heroics, pick up a copy of Vol. 6 of that series and peruse such tales as “Meet the Squiffles,” “Danger on the Diamond” (Supes as a pitcher with a real fastball!), “The King of Crackpot Lane,” et al. [©2006 DC Comics.]

MB: And the robots [in a Fleischer/Paramount cartoon] didn’t fall apart as soon as he walked into the room. You’d prefer a more human Superman.

JERRY: Well, yes, yes. From the very beginning, Superman himself had pretty much a sense of humor about the whole thing. One of the reasons why I gave him that attitude was because the whole concept itself was such a wild, wild, wild thing, I think I felt the only thing that would breathe any real life and believability into it was if Superman himself didn’t take the whole thing that seriously. JOANNE: He had a sense of humor. JERRY: Except that he was very serious about helping people in trouble and distress, because that’s the way I felt. JOANNE: He kidded himself, but he took crime and injustice seriously. JERRY: Now, it has been said that “Captain Marvel” had a great deal of humor and that “Superman” was absolutely humorless, but that just is not true. If you look back at the early stuff, you’ll find that Superman

JERRY: You made a very good point there, because Joe and I felt that very intensely. We were young kids, and if we wanted to see a movie, why, we had to sell milk bottles. So we had this feeling that we were right there at the bottom, and we could sympathize with people who were in trouble and that had something to do with the creation of Superman, who would help people in trouble. JOANNE: And we think that had a great appeal to people, because they were all hoping that someone would rescue them, or that inside them, there was something great.

JERRY: Well, “Superman” grew out of our personal feelings about life. That’s why quite often, when we saw so many other similar strips coming out, we felt that they, perhaps, were imitating the form and format of “Superman.” But there was something that wasn’t there, and that was this tremendous feeling of compassion that Joe and I have for the downtrodden and the people in trouble. And that is something that’s in your heart and not in your pocketbook. JOANNE: And the ironic part is that they [Jerry and Joe] became the downtrodden.

“Perhaps Someday, A Lot Of These Inaccuracies Will Be Straightened Out” MB: Yeah. Well, did you work on the comic strip, just like the comic book, during those early years?

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel that first story to National/DC, but Jerry said that got into “legalisms” and the subject was quickly dropped. –Roy.] Incidentally, on the matter of inaccuracies, there have been so many stories about the purported “true, inside, authentic story of Superman” that are just full of holes. And mostly guesswork, taking quotes from the old Saturday Evening Post article, which wasn’t completely accurate. That was a very surfacey article. So perhaps someday, a lot of these inaccuracies will be straightened out. Perhaps in my own book, they’ll be straightened out. JOANNE: Jerry has a story, Joe has a story, and I have a story, too, because I have the objective story of my experience with them and I can look at it. Well, not completely objective, because I was involved, too. JERRY: After Joanne married me [in 1948], she became involved in so many of the drastically horrible things that happened to me, so she has quite a story of her own. JOANNE: Sure. I was kind-of like their business manager. JERRY: In many cases, she has a better memory than I, and she’s a little more fluent than I am.

What’s Yours Is Mine! Superman was often heralded on early splash pages as the “friend of the helpless and oppressed.” In these final panels from his third adventure, in Action Comics #3 (Aug. 1938), a tale reprinted in 1939’s Superman #1, the Man of Tomorrow, sans costume, saves both miners who are trapped underground—and the heartless mine owner, who’s entombed with them. In the final panel, the capitalist pig has had a change of heart. See Superman Archives, Vol. 1. Script by Jerry Siegel; art by Joe Shuster. [©2006 DC Comics.]

JERRY: That’s right, yes. We did the newspaper strips, Sundays and daily, as well as all the comic book material. Our contract assured us that we were to produce all the material, and that’s what helped lead to the litigation, when they tried to take the character control and production of the character away from us. That was all part of the mess. [NOTE: At this point there follows a discussion about whether or not Jerry and Joe truly sold “Superman” for $130 when they sold

JOANNE: However, I’m not an authority on the comics as he is, because I had so many other things going, and I was out of town during the early part, after the thing got started. Then, when Laura came along, I was busy raising her. He’s the authority on comics. But I have a memory about what happened to us. JERRY: What is interesting about this interview is that it really is a first, because Jo and I have been in seclusion for many, many years, for about eleven years or so. And even before then, we didn’t talk too much. JOANNE: Some of it voluntarily. JERRY: There is so much about our story that has never been told, and this would be the first time that we’re touching on some of the aspects. JOANNE: Our lives are so bizarre that it will take three books to cover it. [chuckles]

Three For The Money Here are some of the first images ever seen of three other DC heroes conceptualized by Jerry Siegel. We’ve always wondered if DC’s openness in the early 1940s in giving him credit in print as the “creator” of the Man of Steel came back to haunt them in the late-’40s trial over the ownership of the character. (Left:) In this ad from Superman #10, Jerry was hailed as the “creator of record-breaking Superman.” Art on “The Spectre” was by Bernard Baily. With thanks to Bob Hughes. (Center:) In ads in All-Star Comics #7 & #8, among other mags, which plugged the new title Star Spangled Comics, DC again hailed Jerry as the “creator of Superman”—in the second instance, in preference to an image of the issue’s Hal Sherman cover! Apparently Joe Shuster didn’t mind that the line didn’t read “co-creator.” (Right:) In Star Spangled #7 (April 1942), however, there’s no credit for Siegel on the splash of the “Robotman” origin story. Jerry was still unhappy enough about that in the early 1980s that he politely declined to write a short piece about the character for All-Star Squadron, telling writer/editor Roy Thomas that he felt he hadn’t gotten the credit due him for the creation of Robotman. Art by the Shuster studio. [Art in this montage ©2006 DC Comics.]

“‘Superman’ Grew Out Of Our Personal Feelings About Life”

17 these things. [chuckles] JOANNE: And the dialogue this actor had, and the things he would do—he was such a good sport. It was just fantastic. LAURA: It was hilarious. It was so funny. [laughs] JOANNE: We went to Boston to see the people at the station and to meet Arthur Pierce, and we went to a department store in order to see him. And he was jumping up and down. But a great many fans were college students around Boston, and he said he made a personal appearance once and the little kids almost tore him apart. We had him out at the house as our guest one time and he was telling us some wild experiences.

Return To Krypton

JERRY: He did tell me at one time that they still had a complete library of all those tapes, but I don’t know whether they’re still in existence. I saw some of those. They almost had me rolling on the floor, because it’s one thing to write cold copy on paper— it’s another thing to see it really come alive, performed by an actor.

From the late 1950s until he and Joe re-instituted legal action in 1966, Jerry Siegel again wrote his major co-creation’s adventures, albeit this time without a byline. At left is the George Papp-drawn splash for the second Legion of Super-Heroes appearance in the “Superboy” feature, from Adventure Comics #267 (Dec. 1959), a year and a half after Otto Binder scripted the first—while at right is a “Supergirl” splash from Action Comics #271 (Dec. 1960), with art by Jim Mooney. Siegel also wrote some of the most memorable “Superman” stories of this period. These two splashes are repro’d from volumes of the Legion of SuperHeroes and Supergirl Archives. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“[Jerry] Was So Prolific, You Wouldn’t Believe It!” AL: Getting off “Superman” just for a little bit—what other early strips did you do, and at what other companies did you work? JOANNE: Oh, he was so prolific, you wouldn’t believe it! I had to make a list because I can’t remember it all. JERRY: I recently furnished a list to Jerry Bails for this publication he’s putting out on Who’s Who in the Comics, and it is a very, very long list of credits that took up several pages. I might have missed some. But anyway, I did “The Spectre,” I did “Robotman,” I also did “The StarSpangled Kid and Stripesy” for National. And there are quite a lot of other things that I did, but I guess that information can be found in this Who’s Who book. JOANNE: Yes, but what’s interesting is when you wrote for that Arthur Pierce. JERRY: Oh, yeah. Well, one of the most interesting things to me, and very ironic, was that for an entire year, I wrote skits for a daily TV show for a Boston station, WNAC-TV—and it was material for the Marvel Super-Heroes [animated] show. I wrote material for the live MC [Arthur Pierce], who played Captain America. And I would write comedy skits, I would write intros commenting on the stories, and I think really some of the best and some of the most interesting writing I’ve done in my whole life was written for this seven-days-a-week show. And the strange thing about it was, here I was, the originator of “Superman,” and in order to survive and make a buck, I was beating the drums for Marvel Comics! But then, actually, I did love a good deal of the Marvel stuff, so it really was a joy and I had a lot of fun doing it, because I do tremendously admire and respect Stan Lee and Jack Kirby especially, and I used to get a kick in building up the Marvel Bullpen in

JOANNE: But what is even stranger is to go to a department store and see like 15 television sets showing all the same thing [laughs] of him jumping up and down and saying your lines—I mean his, of course. And we were rolling in the aisles. JERRY: And this actor was very sincere about the character, Captain America. JOANNE: Big guy, good actor, personable—he was in a movie with Elvis Presley. JERRY: This was about 1966—just around the time when I was leaving the “Superman” people. I think I was writing it while I was still writing “Superman” material. And then when I left them, that’s what kept me alive for a year. JOANNE: We were able to pay the rent. Anyway, we were invited to this Boston station as guests, and it was over like Thanksgiving, so it was sort-of a vacation for us. We went up there and it was wonderful. JERRY: But this actor looked so imposing in his Captain America costume! He’s got that fighting expression, he’s got that shield, and he looks like he’s going to leap right out and clobber you. [laughs] JOANNE: Yes, yes, he used to practice. He had that smile. JERRY: Oh, yes. As a matter of fact, he resembled Burt Lancaster a bit. MB: I have one more question. Did you write the comic strip stories more toward an adult audience? It did go to quite a different audience than comic books did.

A 1975 Interview With Jerry, Joanne, & Laura Siegel Photo Finish Below is a photo of legendary friends and collaborators Joe Shuster (at left) and Jerry Siegel, with Joanne Siegel—taken in the late 1970s or early 1980s. Flanking it, and ©2006 DC Comics, are: (Left:) A page from Action Comics #554 (April 1984), “The World without a Superman,” in which two kids named Jerry and Joe create Superman to save the Earth from an alien invasion. Script by Marv Wolfman; art by Gil Kane. We’ve shown the cover and other pages from this story in A/E #38 & 45. (Bottom left:) A great action page drawn by Curt Swan (pencils) & Bob Oksner (inks) from Superman #403 (Jan. 1985). Script by Paul Kupperberg. With thanks to Eddy Zeno. [©2006 DC Comics.]

JERRY: As a matter of fact, on everything that I wrote in the early years, I never wrote down. I just tried to write stories that I enjoyed, and I was hopeful that if I enjoyed it, other people would enjoy it. JOANNE: It seemed to have a very wide range of appeal. JERRY: I had a healthy respect for the fans, and I didn’t care what their age was—I tried to write up to them, that was my ideal. This was a super character, and I wanted not only to do right by the character, but by the readers. I never tried to write down at all. I always tried to write up. AL: That’s about it. Thank you very much. MB: We thank you so, so much for spending this time with us. JOANNE: It’s been our pleasure. JERRY: And I want to thank you again so much. It was your column which really brought it all about.

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Interviews with Golden Age Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and 1940s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, & AYERS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, & more!

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ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics, with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER and more!

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“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!” Veteran Coloring Guru JACK ADLER On Three Decades At DC Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

ack Adler’s prestigious career has its roots in the earliest days DC Comics’ first big success, Superman. Those roots took hold, as Jack became one of the mightiest oaks in the DC forest. His name may not be familiar to some readers, but in those pre-computer coloring days, Jack Adler was a revolutionary innovator (his introduction of wash covers at DC being one example): the “color guru” of DC Comics. In later years, Jack became the production department head, perhaps training more people than anybody else in comics history. He did it all with hard work and a hearty sense of humor, which has only sharpened during the years. Jack and I had a lot of fun doing this interview, and I’m grateful for the comics education he gave me, and for setting up my conversation with his cousin, Howard Stern. An influential man in both words and deeds, Jack witnessed a lot of DC history, and here he is to tell you about it. All photos taken by Jack that appear with this interview are ©2006 Jack Adler. –Jim.

Look! Up In the DC Comics Offices… Jack Adler in the 1970s and as a child with his parents—juxtaposed with art from easily the most important comic with which he was ever associated: Action Comics #1 (June 1938), which introduced “Superman” to an astonished universe of youngsters. Jack painted the plates for the engravers of that classic issue. To learn more about what that entailed—read the interview! Script by Jerry Siegel; art by Joe Shuster. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

“I Have A Job For You Painting On Plates” JIM AMASH: When and where were you born, and how did you get interested in art? JACK ADLER: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, on April 16, 1918, which makes me 40 years old now. When I was six, my mother was called to the school and told that her son was an artist, but this information meant absolutely nothing to her. We lived in the back of a grocery store, and that was her interest. She didn’t do anything with the information that I was an artist. JA: But you did something about it. ADLER: Absolutely! I drew and sculpted constantly; I was always making things. I was always good with my hands, and still have a complete workshop. I built a lot of the furniture in my house. Here’s how I got into the art field: I graduated from high school when I was 15 and

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

system possible, and I eventually changed that system. It was a peculiar way of working. We were painting on the metal plates with ink and opening up areas so the engraver could put the dots down for flesh tones. On the Sunday Little Orphan Annie newspaper strip, the engraver spent one week on one page. You can’t do comic books that way. The company was owned by Emil Strauss, who was a marvelous innovator. Both he and his son were very knowledgeable, and I learned from them. So that was my job, which I did for a couple of years before I changed our working system. I was working for a union engraver where the minimum scale was $63 a week. I was getting $6 a week, which was legal. Finally, our Color-Separated At Birth? company decided not to take in any work from the outside, This photo appeared, courtesy of Jack Adler, in Amazing World of DC Comics #10 (Jan. and to use only union engravers to do the comic books, 1976), where it was labeled: “The separations room at 487 Broadway in the 1940s. Sol which meant there was no way for us to do the books. Emil [Harrison] is on the left, standing by a cabinet. Jack is sitting in the middle of the front Strauss told all of us—Sol Harrison, Ed Eisenberg, and me— that we didn’t have jobs any more, because the union went to college, but I couldn’t afford it, so I went to night school. I went wouldn’t let us do the work. “They want union men to do the work, and looking for a job, and for the first year of school, I worked in our I don’t know how they’re going to do comic books.” grocery store. Then I pushed a wagon in the garment district on Seventh Avenue, supplying furriers with their materials, for $14 a week. A cousin that I went to school with knew Sol Harrison, and Sol said, “Tell Jack that I have a job for him at Photo-Chrome Engravers.” Sol had been in my art class in high school, and my art teacher in school got Sol into that company. He told me, “I have a job for you painting on plates.” I had no idea what he was talking about, but I took the job at $6 a week, painting plates for the engravers. I wanted to be an artist, and using a brush and inks made me an artist. I worked on the engraving plates for Action Comics #1, in 1938. The company did newspaper strips as well as comic books. JA: Obviously, this was the first time you saw the Superman character. Did you have an opinion about what you were seeing? ADLER: I don’t recall having any kind of reaction to him then. I hadn’t read comic books, and had no frame of reference for Superman. I was classically trained, as far as my reading went. I went to Brooklyn College, and also to Hunter College. I switched schools in order to take the art classes Brooklyn didn’t offer. I went to school at night and worked in the daytime. I got a Bachelor’s Degree in Fine Art and my minor was in education. My classes at Hunter were credited to Brooklyn, which was where I graduated. I also went to New York University. JA: Explain how you worked on the plates at Photo-Chrome Engravers. ADLER: I worked on the plates for the color. In other words, I painted red for the solid red areas and opening up the area for the faces. This was for printing; I wasn’t doing color guides, which was a separate issue. We were doing very limited color work. The engravers worked in the most arcane

I asked Emil, “Does your contract specify the process we use to do the Ben-Day and solid plates?” He said it did, so I read the contract. I went home, thought about it, and revolutionized the process. When I came in the next day, I had worked out another way to do it so that the engraver would have to accept our plates. I realized that the engraver would accept black-&-white work, which we would do. They could accept black-&-white plates, but each plate would be marked red, blue, or yellow. There was nothing that the union could do about it. With this new process, we went from doing one page a week to doing four pages a day. And this idea started a revolution that became a standard all over the world.

“Touché!” JA: One of the features you worked on was the Prince Valiant newspaper strip.

The Valiant Also Dye For a joint interview with himself and DC Vice President/Production Manager Sol Harrison in Amazing World of DC Comics #10 in 1976, Jack supplied the above photo of himself hard at work in 1937 doing “color separations” for Hal Foster’s Prince Valiant Sunday strip for Oct. 16 of that year. One of that day’s six lush panels is reproduced at left from Rick Norwood’s beautiful, giant-size Manuscript Press folio Prince Valiant: An American Epic – Vol. 1: 1937. [Art ©2006 King Features Syndicate.]

ADLER: I didn’t do the coloring, just the separations. The New York Journal-American was run by William Randolph Hearst, who submitted the Prince Valiant Sunday to my boss. I did four of them, and Hearst came into the place, a giant of a man who awed me because I had learned about him in school. My boss introduced him to me. My boss was a peculiar man: he liked to experiment and move on, so I only did four Sundays. Shelly Mayer ran the All-American Comics line. [NOTE: The AA company was originally co-owned by M.C. Gaines and National/DC publisher Harry Donenfeld.] We got to be close friends, and used to have dinner together. Shelly asked me what I thought about the coloring on his comics, and I told him that I didn’t like it, because coloring wasn’t advancing the story. He wanted to give me freelance coloring jobs, but couldn’t take work away from his regular colorist. I was dying for the extra work, but there was nothing I could do. One day, I got

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

The Editor’s The One In The Middle (Above & left:) Legendary AllAmerican/DC editor (and cartoonist) Sheldon Mayer, the original overseer of all comics featuring “Wonder Woman,” “The Flash,” and/or “Green Lantern”— including Comic Cavalcade #25 (Feb.-March 1948), as per this house ad. Photo by Jack Adler. (Right:) Before he graduated to his own title, Nutsy Squirrel starred in Funny Folks—no doubt the mag for which Adler did his first coloring for Mayer. This later splash is from Funny Folks #22 (Oct.-Nov. 1949). [©2006 DC Comics.]

a package from Shelly containing six pages of “Nutsy Squirrel,” and everything on those pages was exactly the same: Nutsy Squirrel was sitting against a tree, talking to a rabbit. I decided to make a sequence with simple colors for the backgrounds, like yellow for the morning, light and medium blue for afternoon, and finally, on the last panel, I used purple.

told Irwin Donenfeld that it was insane, that we should keep the work. Eventually, I set up a process by which we photographed the art on 35millimeter film, so we’d be able to keep the work on hand, in case we ever needed it again.

I got a call from Shelly, who said, “I got your color job. Where the hell did you ever see a sky like that?” I said, “The same place you found a squirrel that talks.” I heard him chuckle, then say “Touché!” From then on, I had all the freelance work I wanted, which eventually led to my being the “color guru” at DC.

ADLER: They wouldn’t have gotten it. It didn’t belong to them at that point. The policy didn’t change until many years later, and I had no involvement in that.

Before that, All-American was doing a comic book called Movie Comics. This book used photographs to tell the stories, and they had to do a lot of retouching to make the pictures fit the stories. The retouching required airbrushing. Emil Strauss came to me and said, “You’re my airbrush artist.” I didn’t know anything about airbrush art, but Emil bought an airbrush for me to use. I came in on a Saturday morning and tried to learn how to use it. I was holding it wrong, but that’s the way I learned. People were amazed at how I used it, because I was almost doing it backwards, but it worked for me. However, I ruined the airbrush Emil bought in the process of learning.

ADLER: The reason that we—Sol Harrison, Ed Eisenberg, and I— moved over was to do the covers solely for National [DC], not for the entire industry. Photo-Chrome was doing other companies’ comics, too, though I didn’t work on those. I think Sol and Ed were at National before me, in the production department. I was mainly hired to do color separations, and I started coloring covers.

Emil told me not to worry, because he was going to hire someone to teach me how to airbrush. He hired a European refugee named Emery Gondor, a Hungarian Jew who had been a German newspaperman. He said, “Jeckie dear, you airbrush this way.” He started using the airbrush, and I quickly realized that he didn’t know the first thing about airbrushing. “Emery, do you have a problem?” He said, “Don’t worry, Jeckie dear; we will learn together.” JA: The comic companies sent original artwork to Photo-Chrome Engraving. What happened to that artwork once it was used? Did the engraver destroy the pages? ADLER: No, they sent it back to the publishers, who stored it in a place in New Jersey. When I moved over to DC Comics, my first job was to destroy original art. Jerry Serpe was also there, helping me. One day, I

JA: If the artists wanted to artwork back...

JA: As far as I can tell, you worked for Photo-Chrome until around 1945, and then you went to DC.

JA: Did you ever have occasion to deal with Harry Donenfeld or Jack Liebowitz? ADLER: Not with Donenfeld. My contact with Jack Liebowitz was very limited. He’d come in and ask me for a favor once in a while. His wife was a painter, and one time Liebowitz showed me some slides of her work and asked what I thought of them. I said, “The slide photography stinks. These are no good.” He then asked me if I’d make slides for him, and I said I would. He asked, “How much would you charge?” and I said, “You couldn’t afford me.” Now, here was a guy who was a multimillionaire, and I was working for peanuts. He was very startled by what I said and took me seriously, but I wouldn’t charge him for it. I said he couldn’t afford me because I’d charge so much that he’d be uncomfortable. So I did the work and everything was fine. I told him my daughter was getting married, and Jack said, “Fine. Do you need any money?” I said yes. Jack got on the phone and called Bernie Kashdan, who was the bookkeeper, and said, “Bernie, Jack Adler is coming to see you. He’ll tell you how much money he needs. Write

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!” him a check and work out a repayment schedule on his salary.” Any time I told him I was going to buy something, he’d always ask if I needed money. That’s the kind of guy he was. Jack Liebowitz was one of the founders of Long Island Jewish Hospital. He donated something like a million dollars a year to it. He actually said hello to the first patients admitted to the hospital. He stood at the door and greeted them. It’s one of the great hospitals in the country. Jack’s first wife was very involved with the hospital, and one of the editors walked in there once and found her scrubbing the floor. In her own home, she had maids, but she would help scrub the floors at the hospital. That’s really giving. They didn’t make a big deal about it, but that’s what she did. Jack donated a building and some other facilities there in her name; the building is called the Rose M. Liebowitz Pavilion. His second wife, who was an artist, was responsible for that ugly sculpture in front of the hospital. JA: You worked very closely with Sol Harrison. ADLER: Sol was my friend. He was in charge of the production department, and answered to Irwin Donenfeld and to Jack Liebowitz. When he called me “Jake,” I knew he had something for me to do. One day he said, “Jake, I hear some companies are doing 3-D comics. Can you do it?” I said I could, so I sent out for some prints and by that afternoon, I showed him how to do 3-D comics. I had daily contact with the editors and also with artists, like Neal Adams. Sometimes we discussed how the covers were to be colored before I did them, and other times, the editors would ask me for suggestions. JA: What was it like to work with Shelly Mayer? I’ve heard he could be easy to work with, but was also temperamental. ADLER: He could be temperamental, but so what? He was a gem to work with, a fountain of knowledge with a great ability to communicate. He always knew what he wanted. If he called me at home and my wife answered the phone, he’d talk to her for a couple of hours. He’d play the ukulele over the phone and sing songs. We were as close as two workers could be. He depended a lot on some of my suggestions. Sometimes he knew what he wanted, but didn’t know how to get it, so he’d come to me for help. JA: You worked with the editors, not for them, correct? ADLER: Correct. We were different departments that worked together, though I’m sure they didn’t feel like we were equals, since they had to give final approvals. They could tell me to try another color scheme if they didn’t like what I brought in, and I’d have to do it.

Schiff was a doll. He knew his stuff and was a real gentleman in the classic tradition.

“All The People At DC Were Democrats” JA: Schiff has been described as the “house radical,” due to the nature of his politics. Do you know anything about that? ADLER: I know a lot about that, because we had a lot of political discussions. Jack was a liberal Roosevelt Democrat—period! There was nothing radical about that. He was interested in what was best for people—the kind of feeling too many have forgotten about. That’s all. Some people made too big a deal about it, calling him a Communist, but that wasn’t true. Jack was very honest to work with. He was passionate in his interests and cared about his freelancers. I can’t think of a nicer gentleman than Jack Schiff. All the people at DC were Democrats. I’m a Roosevelt Democrat. I voted for him three times and have voted that way ever since. Think about what Roosevelt did for the common people: that’s what I want. I want free college education for every American that wants to go to college. I want free medical coverage for every American citizen. I want what every Congressman and Senator gets; that’s what makes me a Democrat. Every American citizen should be entitled to what our leaders get. I’m very politically oriented and I even listen to every commentator who irritates me, so that I hear their opposing viewpoints. I go to bed angry, but I want to know what’s going on. JA: About the only person I knew who didn’t get along with Schiff was Jack Kirby. ADLER: Everybody had problems with Jack Kirby. He wasn’t easy to work with; he was an egotist, which made him difficult. JA: Did you know [editor] Bernie Breslauer? ADLER: Not really, because he was on the way out when I started at DC. I know he was highly respected, but I don’t know anything else about him. JA: What was Julie Schwartz like? ADLER: I miss Julie. He was a mensch—a real mensch! A great human being, very kind, very sarcastic, but humorously so. For example, everybody called me “Jack” except Julie. He called me “Adler.” I’d pick him up and take him to work and we’d talk, but you couldn’t get much out of him because he kept pretty much to himself. Julie was very reserved and business-like in the office. He didn’t tolerate any nonsense. My grandson once read his name as “Julias,” and a few of us called him that.

I would say Julie Schwartz was the easiest to work with. Because there was no art director, I often had to act as such. Later on, Joe Orlando resented that, but the job fell to me because somebody had to do it. Sol An Adler Family Album Harrison experienced the (Left:) Jack (at 19) and Dorothy (31) in the late 1930s, same thing. He was an art director most of probably a year or so before they were married. the time and he was a damn good one. (Center:) Their daughter Karen. Photo by Jack Adler. Speaking of being easy to work with, Jack (Right:) A photographic study by Jack of his Uncle Chaim.

JA: How would you compare working with Julie to working with Shelly or Kanigher? ADLER: Shelly was easy to work with. He’d make a suggestion, or I would, and we’d kick it around. Kanigher was a tough egg to work with; he lived in his own world.

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

Some (Prominent) Faces In The Crowd (Left:) Sol Harrison became the first president of DC Comics in the Warner era.

You’ve heard the story about someone asking Bob if he and Julie were friends, and Bob said, “No, we only sat opposite each other.” He meant it. Kanigher had very definite ideas about what he wanted, but I found him easy to deal with. Julie went by what I said and what I did. I knew, without Julie saying anything, that he respected me and my work, just as I respected him and his work. Something else about Julie: he was the only editor who never missed a deadline. When I took over as production manager, my job was to cut the production time down so that we could use a slower, cheaper method to ship our metal printing plates. The first month, I lopped one day off of the production schedule, and what I was going to do was lop a day off each month until I had shortened the schedule enough. None of the editors caught it except Julie, who said, “Adler, what are you up to?” He was incredible with time. When I drove him to work, he would light a cigarette at one stoplight, and finish it at another stoplight: the same two lights every day. I asked him about his punctuality once, and he said that he was once late for a test in school, and never let it happen again. JA: Weisinger was different. Was he the type to give you a hard time for a hard times’ sake? ADLER: Oh yeah. He wanted to hear the office gossip before he’d approve the covers, and after I told him what I’d been hearing, he’d give me blanket approvals on the color work. JA: Even Julie Schwartz, who was Mort’s best friend, didn’t spare him criticism. ADLER: I don’t think you’ll find too many people who liked Mort. He was a very wealthy man, but he’d only take people out to lunch when he had a two-for-one coupon. He wore the dirtiest ties, and had the dirtiest shirts because he spilled his lunch on them. He was a slob! He wasn’t a guy you liked either on sight or to talk to. He was extemporaneous; the most insecure guy working there.

“Ed [Herron] Grabbed A Sword And Went After Kanigher” JA: Would you say the same thing about Kanigher? ADLER: Yes. He was a lot like Mort in that way. Both of them bragged a lot about themselves. Mort would tell you how much money he had,

(Center:) Silver Age DC editor Julius Schwartz (on left) with production man/letterer Joe Letterese. This and preceding photo by Jack Adler. (Right:) The clockwise-from-left trio of Mort Weisinger, Bernie Breslauer, and Jack Schiff, probably seen here in the early ’40s at Standard, where they all edited pulp magazines. Later, all three became DC editors. We’ve printed this photo (courtesy of Joe Desris) before, but we remember how Julie Schwartz always admonished us to print photos of the people an interviewee talks about. We’re doing the best we can, Julie! Schiff seems to have been a major force behind public-service house ads, such as this one from 1950 DC issues. Art by Al Plastino, emulating Wayne Boring’s then-predominant style. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

Killer Skies—Kanigher/Kubert Skies!

and Kanigher would tell you who he was sleeping with. Kanigher emotionally ruined just about every artist who worked for him.

A vintage caricature by Adler of DC editor/writer Robert Kanigher—flanked by art from two of his scripts which were illustrated by Joe Kubert: “Hawkman” from Flash Comics #88 (Oct. 1947), and the “Enemy Ace” story from Showcase #57 (July-Aug. 1965). The latter is currently on view in Enemy Ace Archives, Vol. 1. Thanks to Al Dellinges for the “Hawkman” page. [Caricature ©2006 Jack Adler; comic art ©2006 DC Comics.]

JA: Like Mort Meskin. ADLER: Right. Mort Meskin was very unsure of himself. He was a great artist—I loved him—and what Kanigher did to him was a shame. He treated Mort Drucker the same way. Bob Kanigher fancied himself to be a fencer, and had swords in his office. One time, Bob and one of his writers, Ed Herron, had a vicious argument. Ed grabbed a sword and went after Kanigher. Kanigher was holding the door closed and Herron was shoving the

sword through the transom, trying to stab him. I saw that myself; it’s a scene that I shall never forget! [mutual laughter] Ed had it in for Kanigher because Bob was always rough on his stories. Ed was a longtime professional who’d just had enough of Bob Kanigher. Kanigher tried to put everyone down, with the exception of the romance editors, who were women: Zena Brody and Phyllis Reed. JA: Well, I don’t think Kanigher would’ve tried that crap with Joe Kubert. ADLER: [laughter] He wouldn’t dare! Joe Kubert is what his characters are: a rock! JA: Irwin Hasen told me that he felt one of the reasons Kanigher behaved as he did in the office was because his wife controlled him when they were together. ADLER: That’s probably true. Kanigher was absolutely the meanest—not with me; we never had a fight over anything. In fact, he pretended to have a great deal of knowledge about classical music, and would talk about it with me. He was always trying to impress me. JA: By the way, if Weisinger was so unlikable, how did he get so much power in the company? ADLER: Because he was a close friend of Jack Liebowitz’s. They lived in the same area. He also edited the “Superman” titles, which were DC’s biggest-selling books, which added to the amount of clout he had.

Boltinoff’s Greatest Adventures DC editor Murray Boltinoff was the original editor of the “Doom Patrol” series created by writers Arnold Drake & Bob Haney and artist Bruno Premiani. At right is the splash from My Greatest Adventure #83 (Nov. 1963)—with script by Drake, art by Premiani, as reprinted in Doom Patrol Archives, Vol. 1. We hear Vol. 3 will be out any day—and we can’t wait! Thanks to Jack Adler for the photo. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

JA: Do you think those books sold well because of Weisinger? Was he that much of an asset to the company? ADLER: I don’t think he was that much of an asset. I think anyone there could have done what he did. JA: Tell me about [editor] Murray Boltinoff. ADLER: He was very opinionated, kind of rigid in his ways, but very professional. He knew his stuff,

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC Dorothy, Phyllis, & Zena - Editorial Princesses (Left:) Jack says he didn’t deal with editor Dorothy [Roubicek] Woolfolk at DC—but he still managed to snap this picture of her with a younger assistant whose name he doesn’t know. He also took the following two pics: (Center:) DC romance editor Phyllis Reed. (Right:) DC romance editor Zena Brody.

and did his job very easily. He was not someone you’d get very close to, but we had a friendly working relationship. During the war, Murray was the editor of one of the military magazines... Stars and Stripes, or perhaps Yank. He did a lot of work during the war. I was friendly with him, but I never grew as close to Murray as I did to Kubert or Neal Adams. I worked with him regularly and spent a lot of time with him, and I should have more to say about him, but I really don’t. JA: What do you remember about Larry Nadel? ADLER: [chuckles] That he owed me money when he died. He was a gambler and used a guy who worked in the luncheonette as his bookie. He was always financially over his head. He was a good editor and produced good humor books. As far as coloring was concerned, we thought a lot alike. JA: What do you remember about Zena Brody? ADLER: She was a good editor, and I liked her very much. She also wrote stories. Her husband was my doctor. I used to drive her in to work. Zena died of an inoperable brain tumor.

“Jack Liebowitz Had Compassion” JA: In the 1950s, editorial director Irwin Donenfeld started having editorial meetings, but for some reason, the romance and

ADLER: No, but I think it’s true. JA: What do you remember about working with George Kashdan? ADLER: I worked with him a lot. He was part of Jack Schiff’s entourage, but there’s not much I can tell you about him. I didn’t get to know him personally. JA: Frankly, judging by the books he edited, Kashdan didn’t seem to be a forceful type of editor. ADLER: He wasn’t a forceful type of person. His personality showed itself in his books. He relied heavily on his writers. Politically, George and Jack had similar feelings. JA: Jack Miller was a writer who became an editor. You worked with him, too. ADLER: I brought him in. Jack Miller was a friend of mine. He was a charmer and knew how to get the right little gifts for the women editors. A real ladies’ man. He knew Julie Schwartz played cards, so every once in a while, he’d stop by Julie’s office and drop off a new deck of cards.

Phyllis Reed also edited romance books. She is my closest friend. We’re the same age; both of us were born in the same month, too. She started out as a receptionist and worked her way into writing and editing. She’s a painter out of the Jackson Pollock school of painting. Zena came to DC as an editor, but I don’t know what she did before that. She was close friends with Phyllis. [NOTE: Sadly, Phyllis Reed passed away in Oct. 2005. —Jim.] Ruth Brandt, who also edited, was a very lovely lady, but I didn’t know about her. She was a very sophisticated lady; a bit detached. Dorothy Woolfolk worked at DC, too, but I didn’t deal with her.

humor editors didn’t seem to take part in them. Do you have any thoughts about why that was so?

JA: I know he had problems at DC at the end of his career. ADLER: You tell me what you’ve heard and I’ll tell you if it’s true or not. JA: I heard he was fired for double-billing. ADLER: That’s true.

One Of The “Men Of Tomorrow” This early-1940s photo of a young Jack Liebowitz, DC co-publisher, with wife Rose was provided by the late co-publisher Irwin Donenfeld to erstwhile comics writer Gerard Jones for his 2004 study Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters, and the Birth of the Comic Book. Everyone interested in the history of comic books should read this volume. The Henry Fletcher cover art is from the “Stardust, the Super Wizard” feature in Victor Fox’s 1939-41 Fantastic Comics. [Art ©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: He also got in trouble for taking original artwork out of the offices. ADLER: That’s why he was fired. I remember Jack Liebowitz coming to me and saying, “How do you like what your friend did?” I said, “Well, you got rid of him. You were very harsh. He’s an older person and will have difficulty getting work now.” You know what Liebowitz did? He went around to the editors and told them to give Jack work. Jack Liebowitz had compassion.

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

Will “The Real Bob Kane” Please Stand Up? Jack Adler labeled the above photo “The Real Bob Kane”—and we assume he took it. At right, from a Heritage Comics catalog, is a sample of the un-real Bob Kane: the splash of Detective Comics #352 (June 1966), signed with his trademark signature but actually penciled by Sheldon Moldoff and inked by Joe Giella (and repro’d from a photocopy of the original art). All the same, Kane deserves credit as at least the cocreator of one of the greatest comics characters of all time. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

Jay Emmett was Liebowitz’s nephew. Jay Emmett was a genius. He handled the licensing, and wanted to handle Pat Boone. He wanted to show Boone that he had an art department ready to do it. Jay said to me, “Pat Boone’s coming in and I want this to look like a licensing art department.” So we immediately put up signs and dressed the place up. It was phony, but when Pat Boone saw us, he was convinced. That’s how Jay Emmett got Pat Boone. JA: Did you think the editors knew much about color? ADLER: In those days, they didn’t know very much. Of course, Joe Kubert knew a lot about color, as did Neal Adams, though he wasn’t an editor. The editors in the earlier days were writing men, not artists. They leaned on my expertise because they knew that I knew what I was doing. JA: Was Siegel and Shuster’s original lawsuit against DC a subject for conversation in the offices? ADLER: No, and I never had any contact with either of them. JA: Of course, you know that Bob Kane had some sort of ownership of Batman. ADLER: That was a different situation. The way that happened was that Jack Liebowitz was friends with Bob Kane’s father, who worked out a deal for Bob. I saw Bob in the offices, and we used to kid each other a lot. JA: You mentioned that your wife Dorothy worked for President Roosevelt. Tell me about that. ADLER: Before we became involved in the Second World War,

“She Married A Starving Artist” Three photos taken by Jack of his late wife Dorothy over the years. The picture on horseback was taken soon after he met her. At the time of the middle image, she was secretly working for President Franklin Roosevelt in funneling aid to the Nazi-beleaguered British, in those 1940-41 days before the US went to war with Germany. The final photo, at age 90, was taken at the 1990s wedding of their grandson Jason and new granddaughter Grace Napolitano Goodman.

President Roosevelt secretly set up a lend-lease system with the British, so that they could afford to build whatever they needed. Even Roosevelt’s Vice-President didn’t know about it, but my wife, who worked at the Federal Reserve Bank, made out every check that was given to the British. She eventually received an award for it from the British Government. It was top secret. I didn’t know anything. Whenever she had to stay late at night, she would call me and tell me they were doing an audit, and I’d say, “What the hell did they lose now?” What I didn’t know was that she was working with the British and French top brass, mostly the British, going over what they needed. She had been thoroughly investigated, of course. I think one of the reasons she was chosen was that she was Jewish, and they felt she could keep a secret. She sure did from me! I didn’t find out until she got the award, and then I said, “What the hell is this all about?” I also got an award for bearing with her during that time. [Jim laughs] I’m serious! She was a brilliant woman, brilliant. She died in ’94. She was much older than I; she married a starving artist.

“Colorists Were To Use The Colors To Tell The Story” JA: When you became the head colorist at DC, were there many people working under you? ADLER: I can’t give you a number, but it wasn’t that many people. I kept

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC for them, and in hindsight it was stupid of me not to do so. But I felt that, if I was on staff, then that’s what I should do. JA: When new characters like the Silver Age Green Lantern were developed, were you their color designer? ADLER: The color designers were the artists and the editors who were in charge of the books. That wasn’t part of my job. One of our problems was that we had no art director. For a long time, Sol Harrison and I acted as art directors. It wasn’t until later, in the 1970s, that DC hired an art director, which was a fiasco. JA: Did you have things like 401Ks in those days? ADLER: No. We did get stock options. If I bought three shares, I got the fourth share free. I accumulated quite of bit of stock that way—most of the people working there did that. We didn’t get health benefits in those days, but, as you know, things have changed in the corporate world. JA: Did you have to ask for raises? ADLER: Sometimes. If I wanted a raise, I went to Sol Harrison, since he was in charge of my department. JA: When you became head of the coloring department and were put in charge of coloring covers, did you color all of the covers, or did others do that as well? ADLER: I didn’t color all of the covers, but I had to approve what the others did. Jerry Serpe occasionally colored covers, as did Sol Harrison. Sol was good; he really knew his stuff. He also did a little comic book inking—an occasional exploration, if you will—and he was good at it, too. But business was more important to him.

Driven Mad Mort Drucker drew this “Mademoiselle Marie” story for (and by) editor Bob Kanigher for Star Spangled War Stories #87 (Nov. 1950)—but Jack says that, because of his experiences with RK, Drucker later vowed never again to work for DC. By the 1960s Drucker had became the ultra-popular artist of Mad’s greatest movie parodies; a photo of him appeared in A/E #38. This tale was reprinted in Michael Uslan’s 1979 trade paperback collection America at War: The Best of DC War Comics. [©2006 DC Comics.]

the group small so that each person could get enough work to make a living. Occasionally, colorists would be sent to me, but I wouldn’t use them because we had a limited amount of work and I didn’t want to affect anyone’s income. I stopped taking freelance coloring work because I didn’t want to compete with the regulars. My instructions to the colorists were to use the colors to tell the story. Don’t just put colors down in a panel—use them to maintain a certain look. For instance, with the romance books, we used soft, feminine, natural colors, not the bright colors needed for super-hero comics. I’d go over the pages panel by panel to show the colorists what I wanted. As a result, I got some very good coloring on those books. I wanted each genre to have its own kind of look. War stories needed a gritty, bold look, while the humor books needed to be bright and wild. Super-hero comics might be as brightly-colored as the humor books, because they needed strong colors to capture the mood. “Batman” had to be colored darker than the other super-heroes. We used more gray on “Batman”’s covers, which perfectly contrasted with the way we colored “Superman.” JA: From the ’40s until the middle to late ’60s, did many of the colorists work on staff? ADLER: No, they were freelancers. A few staff artists did freelance coloring, though. I colored almost all of the covers, which I did on staff. I was never paid a penny for coloring covers. I never asked to get paid

JA: In the early days of your DC employment, some artists, like George Roussos and Stan Kaye, colored their own features. Would you have any involvement with their work? ADLER: Not at all.

“A Lot Of The Staffers Freelanced” JA: I’d like to talk a little about some of the people who worked in the production department. Like Mort Drucker. Did Drucker color as well as draw? ADLER: Yes. As a matter of fact, one of the things that Mort was afraid of was doing color. He pleaded with me to color his stuff and I wouldn’t do it, because I knew he was better than I was, which eventually turned out to be the case. JA: How did you know that about him? ADLER: I saw what he did; he sat next to me while he was on staff. We talked all day. He used to sit at lunch with a sandwich in his hand and draw and draw and draw. He could draw in any style. He was somebody who should not have been let go. But Kanigher did a number on him. Mort was a sweet man, almost innocuous, because he never got in anybody’s way. He just sat there, did his work—whether it was art corrections or something else—and was well-liked by everyone. I told him he was wasting his time in production, because he was good enough to draw his own stories. I connected him with Kanigher, who murdered him. It reached the point where Mort Drucker promised himself that he’d never again work for DC, because of Kanigher. JA: Knowing what you knew about Kanigher, why did you send Drucker to him? ADLER: Because of the nature of the work that Mort was able to do.

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

There was a picture of it in the newspaper. When I got home from the funeral, my wife was white as a sheet and I asked her what was wrong. She said, “Go down into the basement,” because she didn’t want to tell me what had happened. I went down, and found the cello totally in pieces. It looked like it had burst at the seams.

Mort could do the war stuff in the same vein as Joe Kubert. Mort could do anything; if he’d stuck with political cartooning, he’d have become one of the all-time greats in that field. He always had a marvelous sense of caricature. Frankly, I didn’t know at that point what Kanigher was; otherwise, I’d have never put Mort in that position.

Raymond was an old-fashioned dresser who wore a fleur-de-lis vest and had a courtly manner about himself, though I once heard him complain that the doctors ruined his sex life when they operated on his prostate. He was in his 90s when this happened. He was a founder of one of the painters’ societies in New York. He had been a colorist, but ended up in the production department and was very neatly pushed aside. He was very bitter about that. All he really did was illustrations for the filler pages. He was a wonderful illustrator. He taught me how to watercolor.

JA: Tommy Nicolosi worked there from the 1950s to around 1970. What can you tell us about him? ADLER: I hired him. He worked with me on color separations, and he was a total disaster, because of his drinking. I stayed late at night correcting his work. There was nothing that I could tell him, even though he worked directly under me. I’d give him direction and he’d say I was full of it, so I got nowhere with him. But I was too chicken to fire him. I had a problem doing that sort of thing.

“Raymond Perry And The Cello”

JA: I used to have to do that sort of thing, so I understand. Well, I have him listed as lettering and doing production art...

Veteran colorist Raymond Perry with his cello. The staffer gave it to Jack shortly before he died. For the cello’s surprising fate, read the interview. Photo by Jack Adler.

ADLER: Tommy did not letter. He colored and did separations; that was it. He was a bust. He was a big weight on my shoulders, and I was the one responsible for bringing him in. He worked there for many years, but finally quit to get married and live somewhere else. He became a bartender, then a born-again Christian. JA: When you hired someone, what kind of training did you give them? ADLER: It depended on who it was and the time period in which I hired them. I’d show them a list of the colors they could use and the ones they couldn’t on the insides. On the covers, you could use any color you wanted, but the same wasn’t true for the insides. I’d go over their work afterwards and discuss how I thought the pages should be colored.

On Wednesdays, we used to have a sketch class with a model, and he ran it. Anybody could come to this class and work: Zena Brody, Larry Nadel—most of the staff, as well as freelancers like Joe Kubert. This was something we did on our own; it wasn’t sponsored by DC. JA: Even though George Roussos colored his own features, you knew him, didn’t you? ADLER: He was a good artist and I liked him. He was very easy to work with. He was very reluctant to push himself; had he been a little stronger, he’d have gone much further than he did. JA: Was Milt Snappin in production? ADLER: He was in production, but was actually in charge of all the foreign material. He was also a freelance letterer; a lot of the staffers freelanced. He used to play cards with Julie Schwartz during their lunch hour. Speaking of letterers, Gaspar Saladino was a great letterer and a close friend; he never worked on staff.

JA: Why couldn’t you use the same number of colors on the insides as on the covers?

JA: Another long-time letterer was Ira Schnapp.

ADLER: Because they used a much more sophisticated system on the covers. It would have been too complicated to use the same system on the inside, so we used a more limited range there.

ADLER: Ira Schnapp was a staffer; he designed the “Superman” logo. In fact, he designed nearly all of the logos in those days. He was a relative of Jack Liebowitz. He was a fabulous letterer who sat at his desk and worked all day; a very responsible person. He was a very nice guy who had a classical background. He’d talk about things a lot of people wouldn’t know about.

JA: There was an older man who had a long career at DC in the coloring department named Raymond Perry…. ADLER: Raymond Perry was an old country gentleman who worked until he was 92 years old. We once made a trade: he painted a watercolor for me, and I did some photography for him. I have a weird story to tell about him. He played the cello—rather poorly—and loved classical music, which is a passion of mine. Near the end of his life, he gave me his cello, and the reason he did that was because he was afraid his wife would sell it. She was not a nice person. It was an old, beat-up cello, patched up many times. I took the cello. The day he died—he was cremated—the building that he lived in collapsed to the ground, though nobody got hurt. The bedroom was outlined in the next building.

I had a strange experience in Cape Cod. A group of us went to a restaurant which was closed, but was opened up for us. Inside was a beautiful watercolor of Ira Schnapp sitting at his desk, painted by Raymond Perry. I always wondered how it got there.

“I Know Where All The Bodies Are Buried” Jack By Joe Joe Kubert drew this portrait of Adler one night at sketch class, when the scheduled model didn’t show! For Joe by Jack, see p. 61. [©2006 Joe Kubert.]

JA: Morris Waldinger also worked in production. ADLER: [sighs] A sad story. He’s the only person I ever fired. He was a fair inker, a fair penciler... nothing great about what he did. I had to fire him because he was a malingerer. It hurt me so much to do it. When I

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

had a new assistant take over, he asked me what Morris did. I said he did corrections. My assistant clocked Morris and discovered that he held on to stuff two or three days, stuff that should have gone out in two hours. We had to let him go. You know, I know where all the bodies are buried, and you can put that down in this interview. JA: Where are the bodies buried, Jack? ADLER: I’m not telling. I’m keeping the map to myself. [laughs] JA: Spoilsport! [fake grumbling] ADLER: Okay, I’ll tell you this one. [pauses] I shouldn’t tell you this story. Vinnie Colletta and Joe Orlando sold a job to DC. They named a price, and I had to do it in my department. It turned out that it cost more for my department to do it than the entire job was worth. I filled out my report and showed it to Paul Levitz. He went back and told Vinnie and Joe that the job lost money. From that point on, every time I passed by their office, they used the term malutch. It’s bad Italian for “the evil eye,” which is a term they used for a Jew. Instead of calling me a “sheeny,” they called me malocchio, the evil eye. That’s what they did. But I shouldn’t have told that story. JA: Well, sometimes it’s good to let things out rather than keeping them bottled up. You recommended people for jobs in the production department, but Sol Harrison did the actual hiring, right? ADLER: Right, because he was the production manager. Eventually, he made me the assistant production manager, which is how I started working my way up the company ladder. Sol knew how to use me, and recognized the fact that I could do anything he wanted. I had the good fortune of having bosses who understood what I could do, and allowed me to do it. I had no fear of experimentation, and knew that once I had worked something out, I could show it to my boss and get it approved. For a long time, Sol colored most of the covers, but eventually gave that job to me. I couldn’t color them all, so Sol either colored the rest or had someone else do it. We didn’t always have a set way of working, due to deadlines or what have you. We were just getting the work done. JA: It’s a shame that he was never extensively interviewed.

ADLER: Sol was mainly interested in getting into the business end of things: selling, distribution. That was his big goal, and that’s why he worked with the people who handled direct sales and stuff like that. JA: When The Adventures of Superman became a television show, was there a lot of excitement about it in the offices? ADLER: Oh, sure. One of the early writers of the show spent a bit of time in the offices, but I can’t remember his name. We were all excited to see Superman on television. JA: It seems to me that all the people working at DC were company men, from the editors down to the production people. Is that a fair statement? ADLER: Oh, yeah. We were working for an important company and knew we were doing good work. It’s not like that today in most places. Years after I was gone, I heard that someone at DC said workers were like numbers: they can be replaced. But it wasn’t like that in my day. We always had a good crew in production. We’d talk about all kinds of things all day long. It was a lively place to work, very comfortable. Some of us would eat lunch together. JA: It was your idea to do wash covers. Tell me about that. ADLER: I did a few of them, one of which was the cover to Green Lantern #8. That’s the only cover for which I did the art over Gil Kane’s pencils. I also made the prints, color scheme, and color separations. That artwork was stolen from my desk by my assistant, who was fired from DC for stealing artwork. I was told that he gave that art to another artist as a gift, and I’m still trying to get it back. I know who has it now, but he hasn’t returned my calls. My grandson is a Green Lantern fan, and I would like to give that cover to him. I felt that the assistant was troubled, so I sent him to my psychiatrist. Know what he did? He lied to the psychiatrist. I tried to help him, but after he was caught stealing art, I wouldn’t have anything to do with him. He stole about $80,000 worth of artwork. Getting back to your question,

In The Beginning Were The Logos An Adler sketch of longtime letterer Ira Schnapp—the man who’d designed the title logos of many of DC’s most popular early features, including “Superman” and “Batman,” as seen on these splashes from 1942 and 1948 drawn by John Sikela and Dick Sprang, respectively. Joe Shuster and Bob Kane had done earlier, less polished versions of those logos—but it was Schnapp who realized the renditions that have since become immortal. [Sketch ©2006 Jack Adler; comic art ©2006 DC Comics.]

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!” I can’t remember precisely how I got the idea to do wash covers. I was always trying to think up new and better ideas. I knew it was going to be difficult to do the color separations on them, so I had to work out a system for it. Once I worked out the details, I made up a cover and showed it to Sol, who immediately loved the idea. We did a number of them, and only a few artists were able to do them: Jerry Grandenetti, Joe Kubert, and Russ Heath, for example. I drew some of the wash covers myself, and the reason I did so was to show the artists what I needed. There was one artist who tried it, but did it in color, which wasn’t going to work. I managed to do the separations on 35 millimeter film, at home, and made it usable. JA: You had to use softer colors, didn’t you? ADLER: No, I think the process itself made them look that way. The subtlety of colors made the separations more labor-intensive, but it worked! I did the separations on all those covers. Every time we put one of those covers on a book, sales went up. We didn’t do more of them because of the extra time it took, and the fact that the artists would need more money for their time, too. The decisions to do wash covers were made by the individual editors.

33 had to approve the artwork and color scheme of every cover I brought to him. Sometimes, I would have a discussion with him about a color scheme, and he was absolutely useless. I’m going to send you a John Costanza cartoon of me that explains Carmine better than I can. Carmine would give instructions: “Do something wild,” but not tell you what to do. You’d come in and say, “What sort of color scheme do you want on this?” And he’d say, “Do something crazy.” He wouldn’t tell you what it was, or which way to go. So you’d do something crazy, and then he’d say, “What the hell did you use purple for?” I think he was the wrong man for that particular job, but a fabulous artist. You can’t fault him that. He’s a classic artist.

We did a Shazam! cover on which I used my grandsons, and Carmine made the sketch that I used to compose the photograph. On the cover, Captain Marvel is reading a Shazam! comic to one of my grandsons, my other grandson is on the floor, and there’s a girl sitting there, too. When Carmine made the Green Grow The Lanterns original sketch, he had my grandson Re Gil Kane’s cover for Green Lantern #8 (Sept.-Oct. 1961), Jack lying on the floor with his hand to lists the following as the things he did to achieve its special his jaw and looking up at Captain “painted” look: “Ink (Wash) – made print – did color schemes JA: Tell me about [editor] Whitney Ellsworth. Marvel. When I was taking the – did color separations – every step – first time and probably only time.” Repro’d from a photo of the original art, courtesy photograph and told my grandson ADLER: I didn’t have much to do with him at of Jack Adler. You can see the printed version in Green Lantern to get in that position, he said, the office, but I knew him and his brother quite Archives, Vol. 2. [©2006 DC Comics.] “What do you want me to do, break well. I thought Whitney was a dignified man, my neck? There’s no way!” So I and very bright. tried it, and there was no way it could be done. What Carmine had JA: How much did you have to deal with Carmine Infantino [after drawn wasn’t a natural position. When Carmine saw the photograph, he he became art director in 1967]? said, “Why the hell didn’t you follow the sketch?” So I told him what my grandson said. [NOTE: See next page.] ADLER: A lot. He had to approve everything I did. He knew how to draw; if you gave him a specific project to do, he was fantastic. I credit Another story about those covers… My two grandsons always him with a lot of great artwork. I wish I had that kind of talent. traveled with my daughter and son-in-law. My daughter travels a lot to places where she can buy antiques. Wherever they went, the kids would After he became the publisher, I had everything to do with him. He

“[Carmine Infantino] Had To Approve Everything I Did”

Carmine ’Round The Mountain (Left:) Publisher/editorial director Carmine Infantino calls a meeting of his top staff, on his classic cover drawn for The Amazing World of DC Comics #8 (Sept. 1975). At right is a composite from that same issue of Carmine’s penciled-and-inked versions of Elongated Man and Detective Chimp. We never disagreed more with editor Julie Schwartz than when he discouraged Carmine from inking more of his own work! Thanks to Frank Motler, Bob Bailey, and Bob Cherry, who all sent scans of the cover art. [©2006 DC Comics.]

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

go in and ask if they had old comic books, which would usually be in the back. Once, they were in upstate New York, and my daughter took them into an antique shop. The kids asked the shopkeeper if she had any old comic books, and the woman said yes, then stopped, and said, “You two were on the cover!” Then she dug out her copy of the comic and had them autograph it for her. JA: Julie Schwartz was the editor of the Shazam! comic book. Whose idea was it to do the photo covers? ADLER: Mine. I did a number of covers where I combined live action with drawings. It was my idea. The mistake I made was not signing my name on many of the covers I did. It wasn’t my nature to sign them. I didn’t think it was important, so I never bothered. All because it was just work; it was just my job. One of the magazines I did had Gil Kane’s and my names on it, and that was the first time I’d ever seen my name on a cover. JA: When you had new ideas, was Carmine receptive to them? ADLER: Yeah, I would say so. JA: What do you remember about John Costanza? ADLER: Costanza was a wonderful letterer, but he was wasted, because he was a marvelous cartoonist. An absolute waste! He had a great sense of caricature, and when I say “great,” I’m not using the word loosely. I had a great deal of respect for him. Maybe he preferred lettering to cartooning; I don’t know. He made a very good living at it, though. JA: From the time you started at DC until Carmine took over, did you feel that the production and coloring departments were given the proper respect? ADLER: Coloring became important because I made it important. My argument was that color could be used to help tell a story, the way lighting is used in movies. I thought it was important for storytelling. If you look at the war covers and romance covers, you’ll see that they have different flavors, and those flavors were imparted by me. I impressed that upon whoever was working, so that the artwork was directed towards that. The one who directed it most

towards that was Neal Adams. JA: How was it after Carmine took over? ADLER: I think he had respect for the coloring, because he had to approve all of it. I got a sense of whose coloring he liked, and whose he didn’t care for. I don’t know what his thinking was; he would just say, “This stinks,” or “This is good,” and that was it. JA: So if you had a guy who was really good at coloring romance, you made sure that’s what he colored, right? ADLER: Correct. You can see the difference in the color from the time that I took over. There’s a time when the color is just color, and then there’s a time when the color has meaning. The difference when I was handling it—and I don’t mean to brag, because as my daughter says, “SPS: self-praise stinks”— was that I understood what I was doing. JA: Well, you know what Casey Stengel used to say: “It ain’t bragging if you can do it!” Tell your daughter that. ADLER: [laughing] I will! JA: Did you feel that Carmine Infantino’s covers needed to be colored

Evolution Of A Concept (Left:) Carmine Infantino’s sketch for the cover of Shazam! #6 (Oct. 1973). (Center:) The photo Jack Adler took of that basic scene, featuring his young grandsons and a female friend . The boy at left decided he couldn’t lie on the floor in the position Carmine had drawn—though it hardly seems to us like the pretzel-bender the lad felt it was. (Right:) The finished cover, with line art by Captain Marvel co-creator C.C. Beck. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

differently than, say, Joe Kubert’s? ADLER: Oh, sure. Kubert’s covers were war covers, and they required a certain kind of violence in the color, but Carmine’s covers varied. It wasn’t a decision based on the artist or the genre; I colored the way I felt about the art.

“[Neal Adams] Was The First Artist… Concerned About Color And Production” JA: Another guy who did a lot of covers early in the ’70s was Nick Cardy.… ADLER: Beautiful artist! What an artist! I had a lot of discussions with Cardy because classical music is part of my life, and his girlfriend was a classical pianist. It gave me an insight into what he was feeling. He gave me some recording she had made, which was very good. JA: You used analine dyes to paint color guides. Did you also use color-coding? ADLER: Sure. We were doing that from the beginning. At the very beginning, before they introduced my system of reproduction, which involved more colors, it was simple. Y was yellow, and Y3 was the medium yellow, and that was it. Y2 was used in Caucasian flesh color. There were also three values each for cyan and magenta. Under my system, all the colors had a complete range. JA: Neal Adams said that, in the ’60s, DC wasn’t getting as wide a color range as Marvel. He said that DC called their printers to ask why they weren’t getting the same number of colors. ADLER: That may be true; I’m not sure of that. I really never checked what Marvel did; I didn’t care what they did. I knew what I had to do to make it the best I could. JA: What did you think of Neal Adams when you first met him? ADLER: I brought him in to see an editor immediately, because I thought he was fabulous. From the discussion with him and his interest in what I was doing, I realized that this guy had it. He knew where he was going, knew what he wanted, knew who to go to to get it. He came to me. He constantly watched what I

Aquaman Makes A Splash Nick Cardy splash from Aquaman #6 (Nov.-Dec. 1962). Repro’d from an Australian black-&-white reprint, with thanks to Mark Muller. Longtime DC staffer Carl Gafford, who helps us match issue numbers and dates with the Oz pages, says that even one Quisp was too many! (Quisp was the Sea King’s equivalent of Mr.Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite.) See p. 47 for a photo of Nick C. [©2006 DC Comics.]

did, and asked me questions. I can’t say enough about Neal Adams. [NOTE: See p. 52 for Neal Adams on Jack Adler.] He was the first artist who was that concerned about color and production. Most of them were just concerned with doing the drawing and forgetting the rest of it, and the color was just slopped in. Costumes would be particular colors, of course, but everything else might be totally out of keeping with the story. Neal lived with [1975-plus publisher] Jenette Kahn for a while. I was asked to send the covers up to her apartment, where he was, for him to approve. He wasn’t on staff or anything, but that’s what I had to do. After they broke up, Jenette Kahn sent me a caricature that Neal Adams had drawn of her, and she told me to get him to correct it because the nose wasn’t right, the teeth weren’t right, the ears weren’t right. It was a very funny note. He was a great artist. He had no training, but you could tell him to draw a figure, starting at the top of the head and working down to the feet, and he would draw it perfectly, like Michelangelo. Neal knew how to speak up. He wasn’t afraid to speak up, wasn’t afraid to argue with an editor about something. Then he would do what he was asked to do. I admire him. I really love him.

A Touch Of Adams This Neal Adams drawing appeared in Vanguard Productions’ 1999 Neal Adams: The Sketch Book. You can go online to <creativemix.com/vanguard> to see if it’s still in print. If it is—grab one! For a photo of, more art by, and an interview with Neal, see pp. 52-60. [Art ©2006 Neal Adams; Batman & Robin TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

JA: Was Adams one of the first artists who really wanted to learn about coloring in depth? ADLER: Some others did in a casual way, but he made an art of it. He had a great sense of color. My family and I saw him at the 2004 San

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC Diego convention, and he treated them royally. He showed them that he was crazy about me. It was a pleasure to have somebody talk about me the way he did to my family. JA: Neal Adams and Jerry Robinson helped Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster get overdue compensation for creating Superman.…

ADLER: Yeah, I know the whole story, because I was there. Neal used to sit and tell me about what they were doing. He handled it himself. He knew who to talk to. He You’ll Believe A Man Can Play Superman went to Jack Christopher Reeve with Jack Adler at the DC Liebowitz’s nephew, offices, at some time during the era of the Jay Emmett. The first Superman movies. Photo courtesy of Jack. time Siegel and Shuster sued DC, they lost. They lost on the grounds that when they sold the first story, they signed the rights over to DC. They didn’t know. They had a story, and they got ten bucks a page for it. They sued a second time and lost again. JA: Was this something that was discussed around the offices very much? ADLER: [laughs] Sure! We all felt like the guys deserved to get something, that the company owed them something. When I was let go, Adams wrote a scathing article about it. JA: One of the reasons Robinson and Adams had a little leverage was because the Superman movie was on the way. What kind of buzz went around the office about the movie? ADLER: We were delighted. The guy who wrote it [first draft screenwriter Mario Puzo, author of the book and screenplay of The Godfather] was sitting with the editors, going over it. We were all pleased.

“I Was Very Pleased With The Company” JA: How much of a company man were you? ADLER: I was very pleased with the company. Liebowitz was always concerned about us and our families. JA: Can you give me some more information about Gerda Gattel? ADLER: She was an interesting person. She was about 4'10" and hunchbacked. She was very bright, and spoke with a German accent. She was a proofreader, and she was super at it except when it came to slang. She would come over and say, “Jekeleh, what does this mean?” She was an excellent proofreader, and she was very helpful. She did a lot of jobs. I don’t actually know what her title was, but everybody used her. You could ask her to do something, and there was no question that she would do it, and do it right. She was a gem as a worker. She and her

husband were very nice people. Her husband called me when she died, and I was heartbroken for him, because he depended on her. [NOTE: See A/E #35 for a photo of Gerta Gattel, whose name is pronounced “ga-TEL.”] JA: Did the editors interact with each other very much? ADLER: There was interaction earlier, when Jack Schiff was around. Later on, I didn’t see much of that. JA: How was Jack Schiff to work with where color was concerned? ADLER: Easy. He knew that he knew very little about it, and he depended on the colorist. He was a writer. When he went to college, that’s what he studied, and that’s what he was. He understood good writing, and how to get it out of his writers. He was also able to express himself. He didn’t say, “Do something crazy”; he would tell you what he wanted. It was an intelligent way of handling people: let them know what you think. And he did. It was easy to work with him. He depended on whoever was handling coloring to make the right choices. JA: Was George Kashdan the same way? ADLER: Well, George Kashdan wasn’t in the same class as Jack. He was easy to work with, though. I don’t know how he was with his writers. I know how Jack was, because I had feedback. JA: I know Julie Schwartz and Weisinger used to co-plot with their writers. Was Schiff the same way? ADLER: I think so. He probably wasn’t as strong about it as Julie. JA: What do you remember about [writers] Gardner Fox and John Broome? ADLER: I remember what Gardner Fox looked like, and I remember hearing and seeing him in the office, but I don’t remember much about him at all. I liked John Broome. He was a good writer, an intelligent guy, and he was very easy to work with. I had a great deal of respect for him as a writer, and as a human being. [NOTE: See photos of Fox and Broome in A/E #4 & 9, among others.]

“[Gil Kane] Didn’t Talk To Me For Two Years” JA: One artist we haven’t talked about is Gil Kane... ADLER: Here’s a funny and sad story about Gil Kane. Gil Kane’s original name was Eli Katz; you know that, right? You also know he had his face done, right? The artists at DC had an art class once a week, and we’d hire a model from the Art Students League to pose for us. There was an open invitation for the writers and artists who freelanced for DC to come and sit in on it. It was nice; it was a coffee-klatch type of thing. We’d draw the model, and then we’d have coffee. I would take pictures, sometimes of the model, and sometimes of the artists. I had taken a picture of Gil Kane when he was Eli Katz. Now, Gil Kane had met a girl [Gil’s first wife] who wanted to marry him on three conditions: one, that he fix his nose; two, that he change his name; and three, that he fix his teeth, because he had small teeth. He did all three, but I had a picture of him sketching from before he had all the work done, when he had a tremendous, hooked nose. One day Julie came in and said, “Gil’s coming in with his new face. Can we play a gag on him?” The gag was that I would be taking pictures, and Gil would surely come over and ask me to take a picture of him. He did, and I took a picture of him from the same angle as the earlier picture, and told him that the prints would be coming back at the end of the day. When the pictures came in, everybody was in on the gag, and the gal at the switchboard, who was in on it, called me and said, “Jack, your pictures are here from Modern Age.” So I took the pictures in to Julie, and we started going through them, and Gil was looking over

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

my shoulder, waiting to see his picture. Of course, I had put the old picture at the bottom of the stack. When he saw the old picture, I heard him say, “Whaaa—?!”—and then he turned white as a sheet. [Jim laughs] It isn’t so funny, because he almost passed out. He didn’t talk to me for two years after that, and we had been very close. Didn’t talk to me for two solid years! I never played a gag on anyone after that, because I really thought he was going to pass out. Gil and I used to have conversations. We used to talk about movie stars. He had an idea about movement: he drew the way he saw the different movie stars move in films. Finally, after two years, we just naturally started talking again. JA: Let’s talk about Alex Toth. ADLER: To me, he’s one of the absolute best of the artists. He was a tough guy to work with for some of the editors; he used to drive Jack Schiff absolutely crazy. Jack would send him a story, and Alex would send it back completed, and changed. Jack would blow his stack: “I don’t know what to do with this guy!” That was repeated over and over again. And Jack was such a nice guy, that he wouldn’t reject the changes that Alex made. There was a story Alex did that I flipped over: it was called “A Dirty Job.” [NOTE: See next page.] He asked me to color it. It was about Roman soldiers talking about a dirty job that they had to do in the morning. The last scene was the Crucifixion, seen from behind and high up, so all you saw was the crown of thorns. There was no sign of blood or anything like that. It was handled beautifully. There was almost no need for color, the thing was so well-drawn. I think Alex is very bright and opinionated, and lets everybody know how he feels. I admire his work. He’s an artist’s artist. I only saw him a very few times, and each time, he had come to tell me how much he admired what I did with the coloring. That’s the highest compliment that anybody could pay me. He felt so strongly about what the artwork should look like, and what the color should look like. He was great, just great. To me, he was absolutely the best. And by the way, I really like the articles he writes for Alter Ego. Alex knows more about comics than practically anyone else. JA: Did you know Ruben Moriera? ADLER: I had a great deal to do with him. He and his family lived about a block and a half from me. He’d get an assignment to do, and the next morning I would find the artwork at my door, all lettered and everything. He dressed exquisitely. He had beautiful taste in clothes, and he dressed in the sort of clothes that I like to wear. He was also a ladies’ man. One day, he and his family just moved out and disappeared. He was a great artist, though; I really admired his work. And he was fast. There was another guy whose work I also liked, who was able to draw both left-handed and right-handed at the same time: Ric Estrada. He was a very nice gentleman, and I spent a great deal of time with him. He would come over to my desk, and we’d talk. I respected him highly as a person and an artist, and I had a great relationship with him. People felt free to walk in and talk to us. Our discussions were sometimes political, as they were with Ruben Moriera. I’m a political creature. I’d like to tell you of an incident that came back to me the other day. Someone else took credit for many of the innovations I came up with at DC. When Irwin Donenfeld realized that had happened, he came into the department and thanked me publicly for some of the things I had done, and I was very grateful for that. My problem was that I didn’t speak up for myself. I don’t know why I didn’t. I’m a feisty guy in some ways, but as far as my work was concerned, I didn’t fight enough to

It’s A Bird…It’s A Plane…It’s Kane The late great Gil Kane, circa 1982—and his cover for Action Comics #580 (June 1986), repro’d from a photocopy of the original art. Both images were seen in the 2002 volume Gil Kane: Art and Interviews, by Daniel Herman. Check out Hermes Press at Geerherm@sgi.net to see if this fine book is still available. [Art ©2006 DC Comics; photo courtesy of Elaine Kane & Daniel Heman.]

make it known that someone else was taking credit for some of the things that I did. JA: Was that because you felt that you weren’t supposed to talk about your work, or was it insecurity on your part? ADLER: I’d have to say that it might have been insecurity, but I wasn’t concerned about it. I was just getting my job done; that’s what was important to me.

“Good Conversations With People Of Talent” JA: Did you know Curt Swan very well? ADLER: Extremely well. He was a gentleman, a very good artist, and he was always on time. I don’t think people appreciated how good he was. He was a very graceful man. JA: Did you know Wayne Boring? ADLER: Yeah. I didn’t like him very much. He was a snob, for one

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

thing. Not that I don’t like snobs. [laughs] JA: I know that, when he was fired, it wasn’t pretty. ADLER: I didn’t know that he was fired for a reason. Mort Weisinger could fire anybody. He couldn’t deal with somebody who was smarter than he, and who argued with him about the work. He couldn’t tolerate anybody who had strong feelings about the work. I don’t think Mort had strong feelings about any of the things he did in comics. JA: What do you remember about Al Plastino? ADLER: I liked him; he was a good artist, and very sure of himself. He was a funny guy to deal with; he always had funny stories for me. JA: How about Ross Andru and Mike Esposito?

Two By Toth Alex Toth’s art has inspired his fellow artists from the late 1940s, as per the above-left “Green Lantern” page from Comic Cavalcade #26 (April-May 1948)—through his brilliant later work, such as the panels at right that Jack Adler mentions from “A Dirty Job,” written by Bob Haney and published in Our Army at War #241 (Feb. 1972). The later went on sale, Carl Gafford informs us, “just in time for Christmas.” Thanks to Merlin Haas for the scan. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.] At top left is a 2004 photo of a be-robed Alex which was taken especially for Alter Ego. Seen with him is artist Darrell McNeil, who sent it to us. Thanks, “Big D”— since photos of Alex are rare as hen’s teeth. More from Mr. T. on p. 69.

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

Warriors From Worlds Past Jack mentions artists Ruben Moreira and Ric Estrada. We ran a photo of Estrada in A/E #14, but have never seen one of Moreira—so we’ll content ourselves with printing vintage samples of both men’s work [both ©2006 DC Comics]: (Left:) The Shining Knight is sent by Merlin the Magician to pre-Columbian America in this Moreira-drawn tale from Adventure Comics #145 (Oct. 1949). (Right:) Estrada art from Blitzkrieg #3 (May-June 1946), the offbeat war comic written from a supposed German point of view. Script by Robert Kanigher.

ADLER: Yeah, I liked Ross Andru and had a lot to do with him. I didn’t deal much with Mike Esposito. Ross was a nice, easy guy to work with. We had political discussions. [NOTE: See A/E #53-54 for an in-depth interview with Mike Esposito about himself and his longtime artist partner Ross Andru.] JA: Jerry Grandenetti did a lot of the wash covers. How closely did you work with him on those? ADLER: I had to work closely with him on those, but I didn’t have to tell him much. Speaking of covers, I did some wash covers based on Dick Dillin’s penciling. JA: Did you get to know Lee Elias? ADLER: He was a wonderful violinist, and we discussed classical music. We also had personal discussions, but nothing of consequence. JA: Did you know Sid Greene? ADLER: Oh, yeah. I liked him. We talked a lot about the work. He was very good. JA: Did you know Chuck Cuidera? ADLER: Very well. We spent a lot of time talking, but I can’t really recall what we talked about. Usually about the work, I think. JA: Bob Oksner. ADLER: Yes! I have some wonderful pictures of Oksner. He was a very nice guy, and a real gentleman. He didn’t curse. It was great to have good conversations with people of talent, who knew what they were doing and talking about. He was a great caricaturist.

Leave It To Bob Photo of Bob Oksner by Jack Adler. In Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #5, original editor/cocreator Sheldon Mayer gave artist Bob Oksner much of the credit for the success of DC’s long-running teenage title Leave It to Binky, which debuted in 1948. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

An All-Star Cast On these two pages is reprinted work by artists whom Jack Adler discusses. [All ©2006 DC Comics. Clockwise on p. 40 from top left:] Curt Swan, from Superman #293 (Nov. 1975), inked by Bob Oksner. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art; thanks to Eddy Zeno. Wayne Boring penciled this early retelling of the origin of the Man of Steel for Superman #53 (July-Aug. 1948), as seen in the 1971 hardcover Superman from the 30’s to the 70’s. Al Plastino (pencils)—the splash of a b&w Australian reprint, with thanks to Shane Foley. When published in the USA in Superman #80 (Jan.-Feb. 1953), its title on the cover was “Superman’s Big Brother!” Andru & Esposito’s splash for Wonder Woman #116 (Aug. 1960), repro’d from Aussie b&w, with thanks to Mark Muller. [On this page clockwise from top left:\] Lee Elias drew the “Green Arrow” tale in World’s Finest Comics #111 (Aug. 1960). Mark Muller provided this page from a b&w Down-Under reprint. Sid Greene’s final panels for the “Star Rovers” story “Where Is the Paradise of Space” from Mystery in Space #74 (March 1962). Script by Gardner Fox. It was reprinted in Michael Uslan’s 1980 trade paperback collection Mysteries in Space. Chuck Cuidera, who co-created “Blackhawk” for Quality Comics Group in 1941, later inked that series for years, first at Quality, then at DC, over pencils by Dick Dillin. This tale from Blackhawk #155 (Dec. 1960) was reprinted in Blackhawk #7 of the Australian reprint series; thanks to Mark Muller. A Jerry Grandenetti splash from one of DC’s mystery mags (sorry, we’ve no idea which one)— again from an Oz reprint, courtesy of Shane Foley.

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC Aparo Again–For The First Time

“[Arnold Drake] Was Constantly Fighting To Unionize [The Artists]” JA: Longtime writer at DC: Arnold Drake. ADLER: Oh yeah! A political activist, if ever there was one. Always trying to organize the artists and writers. He had great difficulty, because the artists were making good money and didn’t want to join a union. He was constantly fighting to unionize them. JA: There was a big problem in the late ’60s about that. Gardner Fox, Arnold Drake, and Ed Herron were involved, and Kurt Schaffenberger was the only artist they were able to get. They basically quit working for the company because of it, though Drake and Schaffenberger did work for DC again. ADLER: The reason they were able to get Kurt Schaffenberger was that he didn’t have much weight. JA: I’m sure that some people must have liked the idea, and some must have hated it. How did Liebowitz and Donenfeld feel about it? ADLER: Neither of them liked it, but I never had any conversations with them about it. It would have had nothing to do with me, but I favored it. My political leanings would lead me in that direction. I’m a

DC president & publisher Paul Levitz informs us that the Phantom Stranger #49 cover we reprinted in A/E #54 in conjunction with a tribute to the late and very talented Jim Aparo was actually drawn by Luis Dominguez. To make up for that error, here is Aparo’s (signed!) cover of Phantom Stranger #23 (Feb. 1973). Thanks to Bob Bailey for the scan. [©2006 DC Comics.]

pro-union person. JA: Arnold says that all the guys who were involved in it were basically blackballed for a while. ADLER: I don’t know that they were blackballed at all, but they had difficulty getting work. It all depended on how the individual editors felt about it, and Jack Schiff was always with them. JA: Did you know Bob Haney? ADLER: Very well. He was very bright, and a good writer. I remember our conversations, and most of them were political. JA: Were most of the political guys Democrats? ADLER: Absolutely. Absolutely. I don’t know anybody there who was a Republican.

“[Kirby] Was In A World All His Own” JA: Did you have a chance to deal with Jim Aparo? ADLER: Sure. I liked him. We mainly talked about coloring his covers. He was a very nice man. JA: Did Jack Kirby make any color suggestions? How could he be editor of the books and not communicate with production? ADLER: He did his own thing; he was in a world all his own. Kirby could do no wrong. He had nothing to do with me, except that I worked on his covers. He’d send a cover and everybody would drool over it. I could never see much in his stuff. Never liked it, but he had a great many fans. I don’t know, for example, how a guy like Julie felt about him. JA: I don’t think Julie was the biggest fan of his artwork, though he liked Jack very much. He preferred more realistic artists. ADLER: I’m sure of that. I also admired the artists who drew as realistically as they could, like Neal Adams. JA: Do you remember working with Tex Blaisdell? ADLER: Liked him. He had a gorgeous daughter, who was a model and a writer. JA: When Carmine Infantino took over, he made some of the artists into editors: guys like Joe Orlando and Joe Kubert. What did you think of that?

Sekowsky Packs A Punch Mike Sekowsky penciled this “Star Hawkins” splash for an issue of Julie Schwartz’s beloved Strange Adventures (#152, May 1963). Repro’d from an Aussie b&w, with thanks to Mark Muller. [©2006 DC Comics.]

ADLER: Joe Kubert was good as an editor. Orlando was a terrific artist, but I did not like him as a person. Joe Kubert was a friend of Sol’s and mine before he ever became an editor; we were friends from when we first met. Joe has the strength of character of the Rock of Gibraltar. Sgt. Rock, the character, was Joe Kubert. I admired his strength, his ability to do anything, and to take on assignments without a lot of research. He would do Biblical stuff for a matzoh company, stuff like that, and he

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

“Batman And Robin In Buckskin” made it look real. He made it look like he researched it. Joe generally wanted to color his own stuff. If I colored anything, it had to be with his approval. He was an easy guy to work with.

Fred Ray wasn’t the first artist of the “Tomahawk” feature that debuted in Star Spangled Comics and later graduated to his own long-running title, but—partly because of his deep interest in American history—he drew many of its most memorable moments, including this cover for SSC #97 (Oct. 1949), featured in a fullpage DC house ad. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“They [DC] Cut Out My Department”

JA: Prior to Carmine taking over, you were dealing with editors with writing backgrounds, but afterwards, you were dealing with editors with art backgrounds. Was it different?

JA: In 1968, DC was sold to the Kinney Corporation... ADLER: That made a major difference. DC became a company that thought of the crew as a cypher. I was told that, point blank. They put a guy named Mark Iglesias—who had no experience with comics; his experience was with cars—in place of Jack Liebowitz. Iglesias’ nephew, Frank Herrera, was sent to look at every staff job at DC and decide which ones to keep and which ones to get rid of. When he asked Gerda Gattel what she did, she gave him a list, and he said to me, “How does she have time to do all the stuff she says she does?”

ADLER: It didn’t influence my way of handling covers. I handled them the way that I wanted. JA: Another artist who became an editor was Mike Sekowsky. ADLER: Sekowsky was great. He made little caricatures that were gag things, and I wish I had saved them all. He made a little drawing of a cockroach, and it said, “You don’t have to be Jewish to enjoy Levy’s Rye Bread.” [NOTE: This was a parody of a then-current commercial. –Jim.] Some of those were so great. He gave me what-for once in a while. JA: Do you remember Jack Abel? ADLER: Jack Abel was a guy who was pushed around an awful lot, mostly by Kanigher, but by other people, too. One of the reasons for it was that he was not as talented as some of the other artists. You lean on your talent for the way you function. I felt sorry for him. He had a stroke, I think, and as soon as I heard about it, I offered him some coloring work, because I thought he could handle it without any problem. Evidently, though, he was able to get along without doing any coloring. He ended up working for Marvel as a proofreader.

They cut out my department. They stopped doing separations in-house, and went back to doing them at the engraver, but they continued to use the system that I had started. I became assistant production manager, because Sol Harrison said, “If I can’t have Jack as my assistant, I’m leaving.” I was grateful to him for that, but he needed me. I still did a few separations; special ones, ones that I wanted to do. JA: Did you know Barbara Friedlander? She was apparently Jack Miller’s assistant or something. ADLER: That was the woman with whom Jack Miller was having an affair. This is very personal, because Jack Miller was like family to me. Whatever she did at DC, he did it for her. He did her writing... whatever it was. She was paid for writing stories, and after Jack left the company, there was no way in the world she could do her assignments. That ended her career as a writer. JA: Do you remember Bob Brown? ADLER: Absolutely. In fact, Bob Brown was a pianist in an orchestra, and they played at my daughter’s wedding. I had a good personal relationship with Bob Brown. JA: Did you know Fred Ray?

More Of The Lively Arts Besides his coloring and production work at DC, Jack often utilized his talents in related fields. Here, courtesy of Mr. A., are two examples: (Left:) A fashion drawing done on assignment. (Right:) A photo of Marlon Brando and co-star Kim Stanley, in the original Broadway production of Tennessee Williams’ A Streetcar Named Desire.

ADLER: Oh, my God, I liked him. I liked his artwork on Tomahawk. Freddie Ray was a good artist and a very bright guy, and he was easy to talk to. He had an affinity for dealing with Sol Harrison, because Sol was interested in Native Americans. Sol had Native American artifacts in his home, and a deep interest in Native American lore. When Sol retired, he started painting watercolors. He was very good, but he never put any human beings in his paintings. He might paint a Native American scene, but with no people in it. JA: Why do you think he did that? ADLER: Here’s an example. I taught Phyllis Reed’s husband photography. He [the husband] was a wonderful artist. When he started doing photography, he did nothing but inanimate objects. It had something to do with his personality; he would photograph windows that were broken or painted over, dilapidated stores, and

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

things like that. He was working with pure design. When he finally started photographing people, he did many of the people in the contemporary art world.

watercolor of me that is so accurate that I can’t stand it. I was bored, and that’s what shows. He was able to capture expressions so perfectly.

Sol, though, had difficulty with people. He formed the first organization in New York to help brain-damaged kids. He would make speeches about it. Whenever he wrote the speeches, he asked me to correct them, and then he would invite me to come and listen to him deliver them. When he asked me to critique his speeches, I told him, “Your speeches are great, but you’re failing to connect with your audience. You’re looking over their heads, not at them.” I think that he didn’t use people in his paintings because of the same syndrome.

JA: Do you remember Ramona Fradon? ADLER: Yeah. I saw her at the San Diego Con. My family was with me, and she said, “I remember him sneaking up behind me and kissing me on the back of my neck.” JA: Did you ever give any thought to the idea that there weren’t that many women working in comics? ADLER: Oh, sure. At the beginning, comics was a man’s medium. There are more women in it now, I think. JA: In the ’40s and ’50s, there were almost no black artists working, either, were there?

It Just Groo

ADLER: I had one letterer who was black—Ray Holloway—but none of the artists were. Part of my job was to look at the portfolios of people who came to apply for jobs, and I don’t remember ever having a black artist come in.

My photogJack Adler's photo of artist Sergio Aragonés— raphy—until I juxtaposed with the cover of the latter's graphic had a vision novel The Groo Adventurer, published by problem—was Marvel's Epic line in 1990. Mark Evanier wrote the heads. Sol used dialogue inside. [©2006 Sergio Aragonés.] JA: How often were there summer to say, “Why the interns at DC? heck do you take a photograph looking up somebody’s nose?” That was his critique of my artwork. I’ve done some great head studies of the ADLER: It went on for a while; I don’t know if it continued after me. I people around me. I have a great study of Sergio Aragonés that he just preferred to hire people for staff who didn’t have fully-developed skills, drooled over. A beautiful study of him. so I could train them my way. I trained a lot of people, perhaps hundreds. JA: What do you think of Sergio? ADLER: I love him, and I admire him. I once watched Sergio down the hall while he was teaching one of the secretaries how to walk like a woman. [mutual laughter] I swear, he was walking like a woman to show her how to walk! Sergio headed the SCUBA diving team for the Mexican Army. He went on expeditions to the North Pole, the South Pole; he’s been all over the world. Sergio did a caricature of me in exchange for the portrait I took of him. I often exchanged portraits for drawings at DC. For example, I did a portrait of Raymond Perry playing the cello, and he painted a

Something To Sing About This drawing of Dick Giordano was done for DC mags by Neal Adams in 1971, the year Dick won the “Best Inker – Dramatic Division” from the industry’s own Academy of Comic Book Arts. But the guy can pencil, too—as witness this great Black Canary pic done for collector Michael Zeno. [Portrait ©2006 DC Comics; Black Canary art ©2006 Dick Giordano; Black Canary TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“Dick Giordano Was One Of The Prime Movers In The Field” JA: In the ’60s, DC hired Dick Giordano away from Charlton Comics. He started at DC as an editor and inker. ADLER: Ah, I adored him! Dick Giordano was one of the prime movers in the field. He was so easy to work with. I have a great deal of respect for the way he functioned, the way he treated people, and for him as an editor. He knew what he was about. I can’t say enough good things about him, and he was associated with Neal Adams a lot. What a guy. I remember that he had a problem with his hearing. We were having meetings, and he didn’t ask anyone to speak up or anything. We were walking out of a meeting one day and he said, “Jack, I love you. You were the only one that I could hear clearly.” Working with him was a dream. I had no problems getting what I needed in terms of the art, or in dealing with color, and I think he respected what I was doing with color. JA: What do you think made Dick so easy to work with?

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!” JA: Did you know Tatjana Wood?

ADLER: It was his nature. He didn’t think anything was so earth-shaking that it couldn’t be changed. He was open to ideas, very receptive. He was probably the most open-minded editor, along with Julie.

ADLER: She was a great colorist, and a delight to work with. I worked with her, and she was very professional. I never had to give her any explanation about coloring; she knew exactly where I was coming from. I gave her as much work as she could handle. I was never afraid to give her a story; I knew it would come in on time, and well done. She was an excellent worker, but she was always afraid that I was going to come on to her. She also worked on a loom, and did tapestries. Wonderful stuff, stuff I would buy. I wanted to photograph her doing it, but she wouldn’t let me come to her place. The one time I asked her, she was literally afraid that I would come on to her.

JA: Another guy who was easy to work with was Archie Goodwin. ADLER: Archie Goodwin always greeted me by saying, “[Bleep] you, Jack.” [laughter] He wouldn’t say good morning; he’d always come back with that instead. I didn’t have much to do with Archie about color. JA: Another guy who worked there for a while was Sal Amendola. What do you remember about him from that time?

For Whom The Bell’s Tollin

JA: That’s the first time I’ve ever gotten an anecdote about her from anybody. Not very many people knew her.

Jack calls longtime DC colorist Anthony Tollin “the best assistant I ever had.” A recent pic, courtesy of Anthony.

ADLER: He was earnest, and serious about doing a good job. I dealt with him a great deal, but I can’t tell you much about him. That may tell you something about me; I don’t know. JA: Tell me about Anthony Tollin.

ADLER: A gem. He was my color assistant. He was a great help, and he knew everything that I did. When I hired him, he had no experience, and I taught him how to do it. Whenever there was a problem, I would do something that was a big mistake: I would bring a couple of my assistants—including Anthony—together, and I’d say, “Here’s the problem— what would you do with it?” They would give me their answers, and then I would tell them what I was going to do. It was a very good way for them to learn, but it was a big mistake, because one of them used it to take over my job. Anthony Tollin was the best assistant I ever had. He quit when I was let go—because I was let go—by DC. What made Anthony so special was his love of comics and his innate graphic ability. His weakness was that he didn’t push himself enough; he was stepped on a great deal because of that. He’s a very bright, intellectual guy, and his friendship with me is everlasting. He calls me regularly. He was as good a worker as you can find, and he never let me down. He was loyal, and he was talented as an artist, writer, and colorist. His ex-wife, Adrienne Roy, was a colorist, too.

ADLER: She never let them know her. She was a very private person. When she expressed her fear that I would come on to her, she put it very gently, and I had to infer her meaning. She was a very sophisticated lady, though, and I can’t imagine anybody behaving that way toward her. JA: Another guy who worked in production was Todd Klein....

ADLER: Todd was super. The only problem we had was that he never liked me standing over him. I gave him all the special jobs that had to be done in a hurry, lettered, and designed, and he was super.

“What Else Can I Tell You?” JA: Tell me about Paul Levitz. ADLER: Levitz started hanging around the offices when he was 14, I think, asking questions. When he was about 15 or 16, Carmine spotted it: he said, “That little so-and-so wants my job.” And Levitz went after his job, and got it. JA: Jenette Kahn? ADLER: She was very bright. She wrote me wonderful thank-

JA: There was a letterer who had the perfect name for a letterer.… ADLER: Joe Letterese. He was one of my staff. I had difficulty with him because he was a difficult person to get through to, and he was a chronic complainer about everything. Nobody was any good; nobody did anything right. I won’t say anything else about him except that, when he had a heart attack, I immediately ordered that his pay be sent to him for as long as he was out. I went to corporate to get that. He was out a long time. He came back, and after about two weeks, he asked for his vacation. I looked at him and said, “Joe, you just had a long paid vacation.” He said, “Wrong type of vacation.” That’s the kind of guy he was. [NOTE: See photo on p. 26.] JA: Do you remember letterer Stan Starkman? ADLER: He was a very funny man. I dealt with him a great deal; he did his job, and he did it with a great deal of humor.

The Kingdom And The Power Two of the major big guns at DC over the past few decades have been Paul Levitz (left; he started out as one of the fabled interning “Junior Woodchucks” and is now the company’s president & publisher) and Jenette Kahn, who was publisher for the last quarter of the 20th century (she’s seen here at a press conference with boxer Muhammed Ali during the period when DC was producing its epic Superman Vs. Muhammed Ali tabloid). Both photos by Jack Adler.

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC JA: How about Cory Adams?

you notes after every job I did. She let me make more money than I had been making. She told me when she started there, “If you get any idea for something innovative, don’t go to anybody but me. I’ll take care of it, and take care of you.” What else can I tell you? She treated me very kindly in the beginning. She asked me to do the impossible; I was known for that, and she understood it. She gave me assignments that really had nothing to do with my job, and I did them for her. She still greets me with real joy every time she sees me.

ADLER: She was Neal Adams’ wife. For a while, she worked for DC as a freelance colorist. JA: I can’t believe I haven’t asked you yet about this guy: did you know Ben Oda?

JA: What about Carl Gafford? ADLER: Carl was a very talented young man who worked as one of my assistants. He could do anything. He could write; he could draw; he could correct anything. JA: Tell me about Eddie Eisenberg.

“Ed Eisenberg, The Quiet One” Precisely why either writer Gardner Fox (pictured at left) or editor Julius Schwartz (right) had Julie speak that line of dialogue in the oddball story called “The Strange Adventure That Really Happened,” we dunno. But since Ed Eisenberg makes this onepanel appearance in Strange Adventures #140 (May 1962), drawn by Sid Greene, and we don’t have any other pic of him, we tossed it in. We wonder if the lady in the background is meant to be Gerda Gattel, who then proofread all DC’s comics? Thanks to Bill Schelly for photocopies of the tale. [©2006 DC Comics.]

ADLER: Sol Harrison, Eddie Eisenberg, and I had an art agency for a time. We did separations for the trade. I did a great deal of freelance separation work— outside of DC comics—for advertising agencies. This had nothing to do with comics. We did separations that they could not get from the engraver. They couldn’t get them anywhere. Eddie worked for Sol at DC, but he didn’t have a title. I don’t know why Eddie left DC. There was a little friction between Eddie and Irwin Donenfeld, but that may not have had anything to do with it.

ADLER: Very well. I have a great deal of respect for him, and I know he liked me. He did freelance work, mostly in my department. He was a superb letterer, always on time. Never a bad word about him, or from him. You couldn’t have a discussion with Ben Oda that would lead to an argument. Oh, he was great. He was very softspoken, and never got in anybody’s way. He always smiled when he greeted you, and he liked a good joke. If anybody said anything that was off-color, it would bring a great smile to his face, but he would never repeat it.

His wife Dorothy used to color for me. At the beginning, she helped me with simple stuff; I’d have her start my stuff. I’d tell her what to do. If it was a page that I wanted to do something special on, I’d tell her to leave it, or I’d mark it and she would color. JA: Do you remember a colorist named Michelle Wolfman? She was Marv Wolfman’s wife.

Eddie was an artist; we were all artists. For example, Jerry Serpe does beautiful watercolors. He’s two years younger than I; he’s 84, I guess. I called a couple of weeks ago and his son answered. I asked him how his dad was doing, and he said, “He’s okay; he’s out dancing tonight.” He’s a good dancer, and a golfer.

ADLER: I don’t remember Michelle, but I hired Marv Wolfman to do separations when he was just getting started. The first job he did for me, he spilled ink all over the separations, and I realized that I had a klutz working there.

JA: Another guy worked for you for a couple of years: Rick Bryant.

ADLER: Ohhh boy. He had a fantastic estate with a swimming pool. Jenette appointed him art director, and he was supposed to approve the covers. He came to me and said, “Jack, what do I know about covers? Learn how to write my signature, sign them, and I’ll approve.” That was it. I don’t know why Jenette hired him as a $20,000-a-year art director when he didn’t know anything about art-directing.

ADLER: What an artist. A very strange guy who’s out there somewhere making a living as a terrific illustrator. Rick was the guy who told me where my artwork went when it was stolen. I liked him, but he was a strange kind of coot. As an artist, though, he was going to make it somewhere, somehow. He did his own thing; nobody could tell him what to do. I had a lot of coots working for me. [laughs]

JA: Now, let’s talk about Vinnie Colletta...

JA: Anything about Joe Orlando that you want to say?

JA: How big a coot were you? ADLER: Julie was the kind of guy that never got into any kind of trouble. I was the kind of guy that always made waves. Always. When I worked at the engraver, the guy who was the head of engraving told me, “You’re always out in the road, and there’s a truck bearing down on you, and you can’t get out of the way.” I was always in trouble for something. I talked too much, that was the problem, and I expressed what I felt. That’s dangerous when you’re out there in the working world.

ADLER: Orlando was a stylish artist; he had a flair. If I meet a guy who is intellectually there, I can understand where the beautiful artwork comes from. I can’t understand it from a guy like Joe Orlando. I don’t know where his beautiful artistry came from.

JA: In the 1970s, Carmine and Orlando started bringing in Philippine artists…. ADLER: They went to the Philippines to bring them in. They brought in a bunch of great artists. They had a great art

“I Didn’t Want To Know [What Other Companies Were Doing]!”

colony there. I don’t recall working with any of those guys personally. JA: Did you know Russ Heath? ADLER: Russ Heath was super. I had a lot to do with him. He was in our sketch class. One night the model didn’t show up, and it was a hot night, so Russ took his shirt off and posed. I did a watercolor of him. JA: Did you ever deal with Frank Thorne? ADLER: Yeah! Oh, yeah! He liked my coloring, and he said so, and wrote me to tell me so. I wish I had saved those notes! I’d forgotten about him; you’re bringing back a lot of memories.

“I Just Wanted My Coloring To Represent Me”

Jack’s A Winner!

JA: How often did you look at what the other companies were doing with color? For example, how EC Comics was doing it....

ADLER: Never. I didn’t want to know. I didn’t want to be influenced by it, and I didn’t want to have an opinion about it, either. I didn’t want to feel that mine was better than theirs; I just wanted my coloring to represent me. Period. I was never interested in what they did, what their artwork was like, or how it was colored. JA: You left comics before computer coloring came in.… ADLER: Correct. Let me tell you about that. I had been sent to see what it was like, and I went, and I felt very badly about not having gotten into computers. Every once in a while, I got a call that they wanted to see me at DC. Anthony Tollin would tell me, “They need some help with colors.” Jenette asked me to come and visit them, and each time, it was when they were having problems with the color. The color stank—it was computer coloring and nothing more—and I would have nothing to do with it . Simple as that.

(Above:) Jack is also proud of having “won the Art Directors’ Award for doing the coloring and color separation on the Fat Albert book for CBS”—which was drawn by Murphy Anderson. Above is a title drawing by Murphy—perhaps a wraparound cover? [©2006 CBS.]

I have a Wonder Woman book here; the cover is a large head shot of Wonder Woman with a photographic feel. I have a problem with that, because it seems as if there was some kind of computer help with that; it’s not just hand-drawn. It’s totally photographic; I can tell by the way the highlights and shadows are handled. I’d love to know how Alex Ross did it. JA: You also found a way to reprint old comic book stories. ADLER: That’s right. Carmine asked me to do that. I worked on the idea and presented Carmine with two methods, saying, “One way is time-consuming but will give you better reproduction. The other way is faster and cheaper, but the line quality won’t be quite as good.” Carmine went for the second method. He immediately called Bill Gaines with the news. Bill had been brought in to oversee Carmine. DC felt that it was necessary. JA: Bill told me that he thought he didn’t contribute that much. ADLER: Bill was downplaying his role. JA: You won ACBA’s Best Colorist award in 1971.

ADLER: Yeah, but I also won the Art Directors’ Award for doing the coloring and color separation on the Fat Albert book for CBS. Murphy Anderson would know what year that was, because he won an Knights In Shining (Glowing?) Armor award for the drawing of Murphy Anderson (on left) & Nick Cardy at a 1990s Heroes Comic-Con in the book. Charlotte, NC—and Murphy’s “Atomic Knights” splash from Strange Adventures #129 (June 1961). The latter is repro’d from an Australian b&w Murphy and reprint provided by Mark Muller; the credits were added for an earlier I shared a lot reprinting by DC itself. Photo by Dann Thomas. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

Veteran Coloring Guru Jack Adler on Three Decades at DC

of successes. We did the first cover for Ms. Magazine. JA: Tell me about Murphy. ADLER: Murphy is probably the nicest man I know. We’ve been very close for years, and I like working with him. I did many projects with him, and many were firsts. When Murphy was freelancing, he asked me for space to work in the office, and he worked every day, as if he were on staff. He came in early in the morning, around seven, and he left at about seven at night. He just liked working where people worked, and didn’t want to work at home. With Murphy, everything is correct. He has never said a dirty word. He’s very polite, and I’ve always loved hearing that booming voice. I taught Murphy my system of color reproduction, and when I didn’t want to do color separations anymore, he did them. I trained him in how to do that, and he trained his crew. He’s probably the most modest man that I know, and also one of the most gentlemanly. I adore him, and his family, too. If Murphy used up his pencil while he was working, he would go over to my desk and take a pencil. The next morning, he would bring in a new pencil to replace the one he took. He’d stop off at the art supply store and pick up a pencil. Any time he borrowed anything—a piece of chalk, anything—he brought a new one in the next morning. He didn’t have to do that, but that’s his nature: total, total honesty. He was very correct about everything. He never understood how important he was; he never understood what his talent was. He’s like a baseball player who doesn’t know how great he is: he thinks his job is to get up there, hit the ball, get a good batting average, and that’s it. We worked together on P.S. magazine. I did the color separations on it every month, and he did the drawing. He was always on time. Murphy is never late. I worked on P.S. every week until I began to have problems with my vision. JA: In the ’70s, they went from printing comics on metal plates to plastic plates. Did that have any effect on what you did?

all the bases in the commercial art field. I set it up and the state of New Jersey immediately gave Kubert a state license to run the school. The students come out with a formidable background in art, ready to go to work in their chosen field. Joe is one of the most impressive men that I’ve ever met and a knowledgeable, direct, tough teacher. He makes sure his students are ready to work by the time they leave his school. JA: Howard Stern is your cousin. Tell me about him. ADLER: David Letterman is a friend of Howard’s. One time, Letterman called Howard, and told Howard a personal story. Next thing he knows, it’s on the air. He calls Howard and says, “Howard, I told you something so personal! Why did you do it?” And Howard said, “I can’t help it.” That’s true of him. Howard and I are very close. I said to him the other day, “Howard, I’m watching the show, and it’s getting raunchier and raunchier. I’ve known you since you were born. I know everything about you, and I can’t figure out who’s the real Howard Stern.” Know what he said? “I can’t, either.” JA: What do you think was your biggest contribution to coloring? ADLER: I was totally responsible for every change in coloring that happened. Totally responsible, every step of the way. When I decided to make a change, I just did it; it was part of my daily job. I didn’t even think of these things as changes. When I wanted to do something new, I would go to Sol Harrison, say, “This is what I want to do,” and he would say, “Do it.” He would always ask me to show it to him first, and then I would just do it. JA: When you look back on your comic book career, what was your greatest achievement, the one that brought you the most satisfaction? ADLER: My greatest achievement was being there, and being able to do the things I did. I just considered them to be things that I had to deal with at work. I was totally unaware of the importance of what I did until I was a guest of honor at San Diego Comic-Con International. When I saw the compilation of all the things that I did, I was impressed with me. [laughter]

ADLER: Absolutely none, no.

“I Was Totally Responsible For Every Change In Coloring That Happened” JA: What did you do after you left comics? ADLER: I went on to become the clinic administrator at a mental health facility, The Institute for Research in Hypnosis and Psychotherapy. The guy who ran it was Dr. Milton Klein, who was the author of many books on hypnosis. The Institute worked with hypnosis, and that was my area of concentration at that point. As clinic administrator, I administered the clinic, of course, and I was their art director at the same time. I set up all their meetings, learned how to do hypnosis, and took care of the sessions in which hypnosis was taught to psychologists and psychiatrists. It was a famous institute. The founder passed away recently, and I think the company’s now defunct. JA: Tell me about your involvement in setting up Joe Kubert’s school. ADLER: Joe called me because I had a degree in fine art and he knew my background in production at DC, plus the fact that I was also an artist. Joe asked me what kind of courses should run at the school at train students at the school. The courses that I had Joe lay out covered

Jack Of All Trades (Left:) Jack Adler and Sol Harrison appeared together photographically on the color cover of Amazing World of DC Comics #10—juxtaposed with superheroes drawn by Murphy Anderson. [©2006 DC Comics.] (Above:) Jack, a few years back—all tuxedo’d up, probably for some awards ceremony. He won a lot of ’em. Photo courtesy of Jack Adler.

Jack Adler’s Cousin— HOWARD STERN The Radio/TV Iconoclast Says: “Jack, To Me, Was The Star Of The Family” Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

s everyone knows, Howard Stern is one of the major successes in broadcasting history. Just this once, however, he takes a back seat (happily, I imagine) to his cousin—Jack Adler! Jack had told me how nice a guy Howard is, and while I most certainly believed him, it was a pleasure to find out for myself. After our telephone interview, I called Jack and told him how gracious, warm, and funny Howard was with me, and Jack replied, “Say that in your interview!! Put that down in print!” Okay, Jack: I just did! And to Howard: a great big “Thank You” for your time and consideration, and for helping us give Jack the appreciation he so richly deserves. —Jim

HOWARD STERN: Jack is a very special, special guy who was always very good to me, and obviously, a close family member. It was exciting to be his cousin, because, as a kid, to have a cousin who painted the covers to comic books and was an artist... it was very, very glamorous and exciting and quite magical. Jack was one of those people who was very good to me. I used A Stern Taskmaster to go to summer camp and was a huge fan of comic Jack Adler’s cousin Howard Stern—seen above in books; I had a massive a production still from his 1997 film Private Parts. Howard says that, as a kid in the 1960s, he collection of books because liked all the DC titles staring the JLA heroes—so of Jack, who sent me all the chances are he wasn’t exactly unfamiliar with first issues. He even sent me this great Neal Adams cover for Justice League of an issue of Superman America #66 (Nov. 1968). Repro’d from an image written in Arabic, and I had of the original art, as seen in a Sotheby’s art never seen anything like it catalog. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.] before. He knew I was a true fan of comics and knew I appreciated [the books], and I sent him a letter every summer from summer camp that said, “Jack, none of my bunkmates think that you’re really working for DC Comics,” and of course, that meant “Send some comic books to prove it.” [Howard laughs] He knew what was going on and was great about it. Jack turned me on to Mad magazine, which was a huge influence in my life. What happened was that I was begging my mother for a subscription to Playboy magazine... I was about 12 years old. Jack heard about it and he sent me a Playboy in the mail. I opened it up and it had all these weird little cartoons in it. I was looking at this thing and thinking, “I thought Playboy was filled with naked women.” What Jack had done was to glue the cover of a Playboy onto a Mad magazine. So when I opened it up, instead of Playboy, I had gotten Mad, which I had never seen before. I got quite turned on by Mad magazine, more so than Playboy because Mad reflected my whole sensibility about humor and revolting against authority. [laughs] My feeling about Mad magazine is that it was the beginning of the hippie movement, the counter-culture, and standing up to authority for young people. Jack was responsible for that. JIM AMASH: There’s quite an age difference between the two of you. Was he more like an uncle rather than a cousin? STERN: Yeah, I was always confused by that. I thought, “How could a guy that old be my cousin?” [laughter] You know what I mean. My mother would say, “No, that’s your cousin Jack.” That actually made him kind of cooler, because I didn’t have to think of him as an uncle,

Jack Adler’s Cousin––Howard Stern her, “Well, what if I get an ‘A’ on the final project?” She said, “Well, how are you going to do that?” I said, “I know what I need to do. If I get an ‘A’, would you pass me?” She said, “Yes, I would.”

which seemed so formal. We weren’t peers at all because Jack was a much older man. Jack was married to a wonderful woman, and was my mother and father’s age. If you really want to know about Jack, you’ve got to call my mother and father, not me. [mutual laughter] JA: What comic books did you like as a kid? STERN: I read them all; you name it. Even on the radio today, I talk about that stuff all the time. Superman, Batman, Justice League of America, Aquaman, Flash... all of those titles. I loved them all. JA: Did you pay much attention to who wrote and drew them? STERN: No. I wasn’t that much of a geek, though I was pretty geeky. I had this marvelous collection of comics, all of which came from Jack. I can’t imagine what they’d be worth now, but my mother took them and gave them to this kid on my block because she didn’t want the clutter in her house. I had volumes, originals, unbelievable stuff. I came home and said, “What did you do?” She said, “I don’t want all of this garbage in my house.” Garbage? This was my gold! Of course, now I remind her that all of that stuff would be worth a fortune today.

Mad About New York Jack Adler (on the left) working as a model, probably circa the 1960s, in a photo taken for—well, just as a wild guess, mind you, we’d say the photo shoot was for Mad magazine. We’ve no idea who those other guys are—presumably “the usual gang of idiots.” [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: Yeah... she threw out a million dollars. STERN: Yeah, probably. But I recognized their value, though my mother wasn’t having any of it. JA: How often did you see Jack? STERN: Jack was close to my Aunt Shirley, too. I’d see him a couple of times a year. JA: Judging by how Jack has always talked about you, I know he’s pleased by how your career has gone. STERN: Yeah, I think Jack gets a kick out of the whole thing. JA: I know that he was pleased that, when he was a guest at the San Diego Comic-Con, that you talked about him on your radio show. STERN: Jack, to me, was the star of the family. I only sit in his shadow.

So, I immediately took my Wallensack tape recorder, because I always fantasized about being on the radio. For this psychology class, the only guy I knew who went to the psychiatrist and was deep into psychiatry, who would announce his problems to anybody, was my cousin Jack. Jack would talk about medicine [laughs] ... he was always into doctors. So, I went up to Jack, and I said, “Jack, can I interview you for my psychology class?” He said, “Sure,” so I got my tape recorder and asked Jack one question about his childhood, and he went on through his whole history with psychiatrists, his childhood... Jack’s had an unbelievably tough life. He went into it; I think I got off two sentences. My father had a recording studio and I made a record of this tape, and handed it to my teacher. She listened to Jack talk about psychology and psychiatry, art, and everything that related to his childhood and how he approached it.

I got an “A” [on the project], and the teacher begged me to keep the record so that she could teach future classes with it. So Jack helped me get through high school. That’s my anecdote.

JA: One more question before you go: Jack is very political. Do you ever talk politics with him? STERN: Not really. We talk comics. JA: Still? [laughs] STERN: [laughs] Yeah, we sure do. I’m still fascinated by that whole world. I can still name you every form of kryptonite. [mutual laughter]

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

JA: Would you give me one more anecdote about Jack? STERN: The Mad magazine one is the defining one, but I’ll give you one more. When I was in high school, I was not a very good student for a variety of reasons, one of them being dumb. The other reason was that I was at a new high school because we had moved. I grew up in an allblack community and the education was... the school I went to was in a very poor community and I wasn’t really up to par with all these white kids. They put me in a psychology class. Being somewhat intimidated by all of these white kids and their education, I chose not to speak in the class. The teacher got hold of me and said, “Look, you’re going to flunk. You’ve got to speak, you’ve got to be a part of the discussions.” I said to

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“Coloring Really Started To Come Back With Jack Adler” Artist & Legend NEAL ADAMS Talks About Working With DC’s King Of Coloring Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

hile I was talking with Jack Adler, he suggested I interview Neal Adams about him. Well, I know a good idea when I hear it, and since I had never interviewed Neal (but had always wanted to), Jack didn’t have to do any arm-twisting. I also saw this as an opportunity to ask Neal about DC’s editorial mindset of the 1960s, and how he (and Jack) coped with it. This interview is not just about Jack Adler, but also about the company he was working for when Neal Adams’ art exploded onto the comics scene, spearheading a dynamic and groundbreaking look that still influences today’s comic book artists. —Jim.

“To Me, Working At DC Comics Was A Step Down” JIM AMASH: Tell me about the first time you met Jack. Do you remember that? NEAL ADAMS: I don’t remember the first time I met Jack, because Jack was in the production room at DC Comics, and I reckon I met everybody when I was introduced around DC, when they decided to let me bring my ungracious self into the production room and sit at one of their vacant desks. This was at a time when they were not bringing new people into DC Comics, so my coming in and sitting at an empty desk was quite an occasion. I don’t think anybody new had come into the production room at DC Comics since Mort Drucker left. It had been something like, I don’t know, 7-8 years since that had happened. JA: Since nobody new had come in there for so long, how were you received? ADAMS: Well, you have to remember that there were many, many dichotomies going on. First of all, I was young, but I had had a syndicated strip [Ben Casey] for 3 years, and I had done commercial art for several years before that, starting at 18 years old. From my point of view, I was a working professional, and to me, working at DC Comics was a step down from what I had done before. So using a desk in the production department was pretty much the way it was all the years that I had worked professionally. What you

“My Favorite Adams” That’s what Jack Adler calls the above photo, which he took. At right is a pencil sketch of Superman drawn by Neal in the 1970s, repro’d from a Heritage Comics catalog; check out the latest Heritage goodies at <www.HeritageComics.com>. [Photo ©2006 Jack Adler; art ©2006 Neal Adams; Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris do is, if you have an artist come in and there’s some reason for him to be sitting there, like maybe knocking out a cover or something, you make, courteously, whatever desk is available and you allow him to sit there and to do his work. So there were people who would come in and sit at a desk. Not very often, you know. Maybe a Russ Heath or somebody like that, but they would be guys who had been there a long time. JA: Like Murphy Anderson. ADAMS: Right. I was a new guy and nobody quite knew what to make of me, so there was a kind-of scoping me out and trying to understand who I was, what I was doing there, what planet I had come from. [mutual laughter] Jack Adler made it his business in a very short period of time, maybe a day or so, to come over and say hello and to be a bit more genial than everybody else. Most everybody else was pretty standoffish, except for the letterers. A guy named Joe Letterese was pretty easygoing, and certainly Sol Harrison was not friendly, but Sol Harrison wasn’t paid to be friendly. [mutual chuckling] If you asked Sol, that’s what he would have said: “I’m not paid to be friendly.” Eddie Eisenberg was pretty friendly. He was not quite as friendly as Jack, but he was open and comfortable, and I kind-of liked Eddie. JA: On a side note, I’m not quite clear on what Eisenberg did. ADAMS: Neither am I. You know, it’s a weird thing. [chuckles] What did Eddie Eisenberg do up at DC Comics? It’s one of those—if Sol Harrison was head of production, and all those other guys were production guys, what did Eddie Eisenberg do? I don’t know, because I never saw him color. I think he probably had a lot to do with scheduling. He worked as Sol’s assistant, but he wanted to be equal, and I don’t think he liked that he wasn’t.

“Coloring Really Started To Come Back With Jack Adler” Well, anyway... so Jack made himself known to me and I, of course, because he was that way, I would come over to his desk and say, “What’re you doing?” “Coloring this,” he’d answer. Now, Jack did spend an awful lot of the time doing the color separations on the covers, so I found his job to be particularly interesting relative to the other guys around there who were doing, probably, the most atrocious coloring I’ve ever seen in my life. If there was a club for atrocious coloring, there they were. [chuckles]

53 dots get bigger. When you get down to about a hundred thousand copies, you’re pretty much printing as if you were printing on blotter paper. But that was the process that DC Comics used. JA: You had colored your Ben Casey Sundays, weren’t you?

ADAMS: Yes, and I did color illustration, too. I understood color separation. Color separation today is way, way different than it was then. In those days, you basically broke down your colors into red, yellow, and blue, and you And they didn’t know, poor signified what percentages of red, guys. If you only have the yellow, and blue that you wanted “I’m Late, I’m Late, For A Very Important Date” production guys around you to on every color that you put down. draw from, then there’s nobody The caption accompanying this photo in Amazing World of DC Comics #10, The color guides had a fair amount in 1976, reads: “Lillian Mandell hands Jack Adler a layout to a late book.” there to set a standard and say, of color on them, but it wasn’t She was Jack’s secretary at the time. “Well, you know, if you have a giant very sophisticated. And all the lobster come from the sea, and he’s colors had numbers on them, indicating what color they were, so that going to attack your boat, you don’t color him the same color as a the separator would not pick the wrong color and give you a purple face. cooked lobster. A cooked lobster is red, but a live lobster is kind-of seagreen, blue-greenish, so you don’t color him red.” But they didn’t have somebody who’d say that, so they’d color the lobster red, because the only lobster they saw was when they went out to eat lobster. [laughs] What you have to do is read the caption, and if it says, “Then the moon came up and the flier could see by the silver light of the moon that this isn’t daytime and that’s not the sun...” then you’ll know it’s nighttime. And over here on this page it states, “Seven, that’s now daytime.” And they didn’t do that, so you really couldn’t tell day or night if you were reading some of those comics, unless the artist made the sky black. That’s one of the things that Alex Toth did that I thought was so good. The scene is set at nighttime? Make the sky black—then how can you miss?

“In A Group Of Barbarians, [Jack Adler] Was The Civilized Man” JA: Right. So what was Jack like when you started interacting with him? ADAMS: Well, he was friendly. He was cautious and careful for his job, but he was more conscientious than all the other guys, and because he was doing the covers first of all, there were people who’d kind-of complain that he was doing the covers. I guess they couldn’t understand it, but when Jack had a daytime scene, he’d color it like a daytime scene. [chuckles] In a group of barbarians, he was the civilized man. [mutual laughter] Jack naturally attracted my attention because he had the aura of civilization about him, so I could at least sit and talk with him about color, and why this works better than that, and all the rest of it. We had a lot of conversations about the use of color, and about the printing process that we were using at DC, and compared to the rest of the world, which was out of the Stone Age and DC being in the Stone Age. You know, they printed with what we call, in the business, “relief presses.” Relief presses are pretty much what Benjamin Franklin used. It’s slightly more sophisticated in its machinery. Basically, it was a press where you put ink on the plate—and the plate is this raised metal—and you put the ink on the raised metal, and it stamps it onto your paper. At the beginning of the run, that’s not so bad because the process isn’t so terrible. But then, after a while, the stamping of the metal starts to wear on the metal and it starts to flatten out around the edges, and then your

JA: You say that Jack was more conscientious than the others. That’s why he did the covers, because DC thought that’s what sold the magazines back then. ADAMS: A civilized man in a room full of barbarians is going to be chosen to do the most important stuff. So complain as the other guys may have done—and they did—Jack was heads and shoulders above them, quality-wise, enough so that there was no comparison. And to release a cover to somebody else... that would almost be like committing suicide. But also, Jack understood more about separations because the color separations for covers were not done in color. He would make a color guide. Nor were they done the way the women in Connecticut that we referred to as “the women in Connecticut who did the color separations for the comic book pages.” It wasn’t done even by the same methodology. What Jack would do is, he would take what we call “blue lines” of the cover that were all exactly the same size and he would color the various layers of color—red, yellow, and blue—in tones of gray. Now if you know that, for example, a flesh tone is 25% red and 25% yellow, you learn after a time how to lay down a gray that represents 25% from white to black, what that tonality is. And so you take the red plate and you do that tonality on the face. Then you take the yellow plate and you do the tonality on the face. Then, when these gray tone sheets are sent to the printer, or the separator, what they do is they photograph the grays through a dot plate, and they get a metal plate, and the difference is that on their red plate that’s metal and was made from gray, they put red ink and that’s what prints. And on the yellow plate, they put yellow ink and that’s what prints. And on a blue plate, they put blue and that’s what prints. So Jack’s grays then became the various colors, and that’s how you used to get color on your covers. So Jack not only had to be a good colorist, he had to know through his grays what percentage of his grays actually equaled the colors that he expected to get. That’s a pretty sophisticated understanding. You can have that understanding, and not do it well, and get some really bad mixes of color. So essentially, you’re doing these separations on these blue lines that will give you exactly what you want on the cover. And that’s a skill that, once you’ve set somebody down, hopefully, you’ve got the right guy to do it. Nobody’s going to step easily into that job.

Neal Adams Talks About Working With DC’s King Of Coloring

“Jack Was Perfectly Willing To Give Me This Information And Get Himself In Trouble” JA: How easy was it to get Jack to open up about how things were done and to talk about it, and maybe even to try something new? ADAMS: Well, remember that I was a subversive. [mutual laughter] And Jack is chatty. You really have to learn somebody’s weaknesses, and Jack’s weakness is that Jack loves to chat. And so I was willing to have Jack tell me anything and everything to the point of getting him in trouble. [mutual laughter] And Jack was perfectly willing to give me this information and get himself into trouble. Not that the trouble was really bad. I mean, there was no real big problems, but there was the question of, [gruff voice] “Why is Jack telling this guy all this stuff?” Jack was telling me because I was interested. So we had a party who wanted to give information and talk about this stuff, and a perfect recipient for that information who was totally interested in anything and everything that he could learn. It was a great relationship. And Jack had a lot of information to teach. For example, he taught me how to do 3-D, theoretically. I learned it to the point that, when the opportunity came to do a 3-D album for Grand Funk Railroad, there was essentially nobody in the world that knew how to do the old 3-D technique except me, and I only knew how to do it theoretically from Jack. And I produced a Grand Funk Railroad album cover that truly was the first 3-D job that had been done, I think, in the country—which meant maybe the world—in like 20 years. And I did it all from theory, not having ever done it. So you can tell that the explanation that Jack gave, and that my absorption of that explanation, was a deep and abiding thing that took place over quite a number of hours, where it’s not the easiest thing in the world to explain and to get. So Jack and I spent many, many, many hours together kicking ideas around and arguing color theory and all those things. And I was able to bring things to Jack that he didn’t know about. Jack was able to teach me things that I didn’t know about. That was pretty cool. JA: When you started doing covers for DC, did you talk to Jack about the coloring? ADAMS: I would talk and argue with Jack about my covers, because you must remember that DC Comics was held back, reproduction-wise in many other ways, by the history of what had happened to comic books [in the 1950s]. It was as if DC Comics had stood still for all that time and everything else had moved on. When the time came for me to do work at DC Comics, they were sufficiently far behind in the times that things that I thought were regular, were shockingly new to them.

They didn’t know what to do. They didn’t know how to approach it. I had to find allies that would at least experiment with me for things that in my head were a given, but in DC Comics, it was like “boogie-boogie” from civilization. For example, I said, “We can print from the pencils; print it and color it, just like black ink.” And of course, they said, “No, that’s gray.” I said, “Well, no-o-o... It’s gray when you put it down in a pencil, but if you take a photostat of it... the nature of the photostat will turn whatever you see as a pencil mark, to black.” “No, it won’t do that. It’s gray,” they claimed. They would all freak out and take the art into the photostat room and photostat the pencil, and sure enough, it would turn black and, “Oh, gray turned black.” “And now you can print it, right?” I asked. “Oh, I guess we can print it. Are we paying you for inks?” [pause] “Yes, you are,” I said. “Out there in the real world, we call it rendering. Rendering is the thing you do for the finish. We render.” I would say things like, “Look, I want to do this face”—we were doing ‘Deadman’—“I want to do this big face in the sky as a dropout. Can we do dropout, Sol?” Sol said, “What is a dropout?” I said, “I want to take my black ink line and print it in red and blue so it’s a purple.” Sol said, “Oh, that’s a dropout. Okay, we don’t that. You can’t do that. Now go away.” I said, “No, no, I want to print this in purple and—” “Go away, go away.” “No, I want to print this in purple.” “Okay, talk to Jack.” [mutual laughter] I went to Jack and said, “Jack, I want to print this line in purple.” “Oh-kay,” Jack said. “We’d have to do a dropout.” [happily] “Yeah, Jack. We’d have to do a dropout. Let’s do that.” Jack would immediately get it, but asked, “Will they let you do that?” “I guess they will, Jack. They sent me to you.” So we’d do a dropout. Then everybody goes, “Ohh, woo. Oooh.” And they’d say, “This is new. We never did this before.” “No, no,” I said, “they used to do that in comics. They had dropouts everywhere back in the old days.” The only way I could do anything different was if I had Jack there, because Jack would say, “We can do that.” I had drawn a Tomahawk cover [#116], and I said to Jack, “I want to try to get a feeling of paint on here. So I need you to, like, drybrush paint.” I said “drybrush” to my editor, and I thought he’d have an epileptic seizure: “Drybrush, what is drybrush? You can’t put down ink if you have drybrush.” I said, “No, it’s a technique. It’s not really dry. It’s sort-of dry, and it makes a scrubbly—never mind.” [mutual laughter] I went to Jack and described what I wanted to do and did a sample, and I said, “Ah, gee. It looks like paint.” He said, “What’s the idea?” “I’m trying to do an action scene and Tomahawk’s on the ground, this Indian’s coming up at him, and I want this background to look like

Is There A Doctor In The Casa? Neal was a rarity in having drawn a nationally-syndicated daily comic strip—which was then the ultimate ambition of many a comic book artist— before he worked in the latter field. Above is a 1966 Ben Casey daily (based on the hit TV series about a two-fisted physician, starring Vince Edwards), in Spanish translation. Thanks to Scott Goodell. [©2006 NEA, Inc.]

“Coloring Really Started To Come Back With Jack Adler” paint.” At first, it would freak Jack out, because he didn’t know what the reaction would be. And then he’d get into it. He said, “Ah, look at this,” and he’d show it to me. He’d say, “Now I’m going to do it over again. I don’t like this. I think I’ll do it again. We’re going to make all the strokes go in one direction.” “Okay, cool, great, good, good, good, thanks. Go, go.” And he would do it. And then suddenly, this cover would come in, and everybody’d go, “Ahh, ooh, how’d you do that, how’d you do that?” “Drybrush.” [mutual laughter] So we got to do a lot of things; and basically, all we did was sort of re-explore all the stuff that was known, but it made it seem new. And only somebody like Jack, he was my—it’s sort-of like you’re doing something under the table, but you both know that it’s kosher. So why was there a conversation? There shouldn’t even have been a conversation. This stuff should have been happening on an ongoing basis, but it wasn’t. So it became this clandestine thing and like, [gruff whisper] “What are they doing now? They’re off in the corner, planning something.” “Well, it makes us money, doesn’t it?” “Oh, yeah, I guess it’s okay.” [laughter] Then other guys would try it and it became an industry standard.

55 could. “Who did this sky? Too much color in this sky in this background. It’s gonna slide.” “No, it’s not going to slide.” So I invented a color for them: “Adams Blue.” It’s the color you put on skies when you want to make them nice and deep and dark. It’s 100% blue, 25% red, 25% yellow. And then you can go to 50% red and 50% yellow if you want to make it deeper. But essentially, you could pretty much print whatever you wanted to. So I started to kind-of let people know, “You know, you really don’t have to worry about that.” Of course, who did I have to preach to but the gorillas in the production room at DC Comics. So what good was that going to do? The truth of the matter was that my stuff started to look awfully good in comparison to their bad stuff because I was coloring my own stuff and Jack was working with me so that I was, in a way, light years ahead of them in every area: in the amount of color, the saturation of the color, the use of color, the mixing of color, everything else. There was just no comparison.

It was a big advantage for me, bad disadvantage for everybody else, because I was in control of the whole process and I Tomahawk Troubles had an ally in Jack, so we could do pretty The cover of Tomahawk #116 (May-June 1968). Neal’s desire much whatever we wanted to do. Take all to get a “drybrush” effect causes considerable ripples up at these rules, the rules that were ridiculous DC Comics! With thanks to Bob Bailey. [©2006 DC Comics.] at their beginning, and just throw them JA: I don’t know if this is my imagination away and say, “Okay, now let’s decide what we’re going to do. We know or not, but I was a kid then, and your covers seemed to have, as far as what the real rules are.” You know, the real rules are aesthetic rules. The the color’s concerned, a little more weight to them. real rules have to do with color theory. The real rules have to do with light theory. They don’t have anything to do with all this ridiculous ADAMS: Well, let me tell you why, [mutual laughter] just so you made-up stuff. So yes, you’re right. Your observations are correct. The know. This, again, had to do with Jack. There were all these rules. One colors seemed denser and richer, they seem to be fuller because rule was, you couldn’t put on more than 200% of a color. And you’d everybody else’s were poor by comparison. That’s the reason. Not ask, “What does that mean?” Well, you can’t put on solid red and solid because they were so darn great, but the comparison was so clear and so yellow and then put on solid blue because that’s 300%. That’s 100% red, obvious. 100% yellow, 100% blue. And I heard this rule at DC, so I immediately went to Sol Harrison. I said, “Sol, I heard this rule where you can’t put There were also a few things that we did that really have to do with on over 200% of a color, and first of all, I want to find out if it’s true; color theory. For example, I did a series of House of Mystery covers. and second of all, I want to find out why.” So he said, “It’s true. The Some of them were more experimental than others. They had to do with reason why is that if you put on too much color, the color will slide off a kind of a philosophy that I adopted editorially because Joe Orlando the paper because the layers don’t dry fast enough. And so what happens came to me, and said he’s been assigned these mystery covers and all he’s is it becomes like layers of ink and if the paper moves, it’ll just slide on got is old stories from the drawers to print in these books, so he’s not the wet.” going to easily be able to sell these things, and he wants to make a hit.

“Adams Blue”

I said, “Sol, we’re printing on toilet paper. [mutual laughter] I don’t think anything’s going to slide on this paper. I mean, if you’re telling me we were printing on the kind of slick paper that Time magazine prints on, I can understand that. But this is toilet paper. I mean, you could put a drop of water on this paper, which is like about five or six times the weight of ink, and it’ll just soak right into the paper. Nothing’s going to slide.” He said, “Well, during the war, you know we had problems with paper sliding because we had to work on a lot of different inexpensive papers.” “I see.” Now, I didn’t want to tell Sol that we weren’t at war any more. I was afraid that would come as a shock to his system, and we really weren’t at odds to find different kinds of oilcloth to print on. They were pretty much printing on newsprint, so that rule was ridiculous. I immediately started to experiment with doing 300% of color on as many things as I

And Joe’s problem was that, because of the Comics Code, he couldn’t do horror stories. So how do you do some kind of scary story, and then print this crap that they had in the drawers, and still get a line launched? So it occurred to me that something that frightens adults is different than what frightens kids. For example, if you’re standing in a graveyard and you look at a statue, and it just seems to start to move, and you’re an adult, well, you can run. If you’re a kid, and you’ve got big eyes, it’s scarier, it’s spookier, it’s more—it stays within that level of the Comics Code, but it’s spooky. I hit on the realization that if I just used kids, then whatever situation these kids are in, the situation is going to seem scarier to people because they’re kids. So I did a whole series of kid scary covers. Beyond that, there’s a scientific fact that—a bunch of scientific facts, but there is one in particular and it has to do with the colors of the rainbow: red, yellow, orange, green, blue, indigo, and violet. They have different wavelengths,

Neal Adams Talks About Working With DC’s King Of Coloring

so what happens is that somebody says, “We want to make a sign that somebody will see. What color should we make it?” And then somebody immediately says, “Make it red because red is something you’re going to see more quickly than, let’s say, blue.” The reason blue is not going to be seen more quickly is that it doesn’t attract your eye and it just kind-of falls back there and the red just seems to pop forward. Well, the truth of the matter is because red and the yellow-red end of the spectrum is a fast-moving end of the spectrum. It actually reaches your eye more quickly than blue does, so you can’t time it. In other words, you don’t know it’s happening intellectually, but your brain registers that the red reaches your eye more quickly than the blue. You can’t actually measure it. You can with a certain type of glasses, but you can’t intellectually do it. But you still recognize it. So if you have something that has a red and yellow title, it will seem to leap out at you. You know, people use that phraseology. “The title leaped out at me.” It really, actually does. It rises off the paper just a little bit. So if you design a cover... let’s say there’s a guy on a hill, digging a grave at night. He has a lantern, and the lantern is lighting him and the grave and the fact that he’s digging it. Then as you come down the grave toward you, there are these kids and there are these cats, hiding behind tombstones, looking at him. And all the rest of the picture is done in blue-grays so the kids in the foreground, and the cats, which are catching light, kind-of pop toward you. But the other thing that happens is that the guy on the hill that’s in the background, done in yellows like that, actually rises off the page and moves toward you. Now you don’t necessarily register that consciously. But if you had bought that comic book at that time, and you stared at it, it would seem as if that guy on the hill was moving toward you. You wouldn’t know why. And it’s based on the scientific analysis of how light reflects color. So Jack and I would do experiments like that. I’d say, “Okay, Jack. I want to create a 3-D cover without using 3-D.” I would give him the theory and we would talk it over, and then

do it. That cover would go out and people would ask, “Why do Neal’s covers look so three-dimensional?” “Well, just maybe it’s the way he draws,” you know? But no, it’s not that. If I hadn’t had Jack there to work with me, most of the experiments that I did would not have been done. I used to do covers for Marvel Comics. And of course, the very first cover that I did for Marvel was rejected by the publisher [X-Men #56]. It had to do with putting the X-Men on the X-Men letters [the title logo], and the publisher said, “I can’t read the title of the magazine. You’ve got these people all over it,” and they rejected it. Of course, later, it was made as a print and sold for, I don’t know, $250 apiece. But then I would do other covers for Stan, and I would try to do decent covers, but they would always screw with them at the production room. You know, not quite going where I needed to go. And then Stan would come to me and say, “Why do you do better covers for DC than you do for us?” And I’d say, “What do you mean, Stan?” And Stan would say, “Well, I don’t know. I’m looking at the covers and maybe it’s just me, but it seems to me you’re doing better covers for DC.” And I just had to go quiet on him, because the reason was that I wasn’t getting the cooperation at Marvel that I was getting at DC, so I tried to do failsafe covers for them. But in truth, it was Jack Adler who was the one who made it possible at DC, and he was always there for me.

“I Have Lots Of Stories [About Jack Adler]” JA: What else do you remember about Jack? ADAMS: I have lots of stories, but I’ve got one in particular. The guys at DC Comics used to make fun of Jack and me getting together, okay? And Jack and I had games beyond games. For example, one of the things that I did was, Jack would slip me the second set of color guides. In other words, any time they made color guides for a book, they’d make two copies. And so the colorists, because—well, they were so bad—they would go out and color one set of color guides and they would never have to use a second set because that would mean extra work. So there was always a second set to color. So I would go and I would scope out stories that needed to be saved.

Hey, Kids—Comics! Neal’s covers for Showcase #80 (Feb. 1969) and DC Special #4 (July-Sept. 1969) are two of a number he did in accordance with his theory that situations seem scarier to people if they involve children. Of course, he never showed a child actually being harmed. [©2006 DC Comics.]

For example, about halfway through the Tomahawk run by Frank Thorne... well, they were coloring his stuff very badly. I went to Jack and said, “Jack, give me the Frank Thorne pages.” And Jack would say, “Why?” I’d say, “You have an extra set, give me the Frank Thorne pages.” He’d say, “What are you going to do?” I’d say, “Well, I’m going to re-color them.” He says, “Why?” I said, “Well, because the coloring is bad.” [chuckles] And Jack would say, “Well, we have to use them.” I’d say, “Well, just give them to me. I want to see, you know, what I can do with them.” So I’d re-color the story and then I’d bring it in to Jack and Jack would say, “What do you want me to do with this?” I’d say, “Well, look at it.” He’d say, “Why?” I’d say, “Well, just compare it to Soand-so’s coloring.” And Jack would look at it and he’d say, “Ahh, yeah.

“Coloring Really Started To Come Back With Jack Adler”

We’d just take the color guides when they came in, throw them in the garbage, and put in the new ones. So Jack would say, “Okay, I’m going to color the Toth story.” I’d say, “Come on, Jack. It’s Alex Toth, what are you talking about? Let me color it.” And he’d say, “No, no. I can do it just as well as you.” I said, “Jack, I’ll tell you what. You color the Alex Toth story, and you pick a page, and you’ll make five mistakes on that page.” He said, “I will not.” I said, “You’re going to make five mistakes.” He said, “Look, an opinion is not a mistake.” I said, “Jack, I’m not talking about opinion. You’re going to make five mistakes.” Jack said, “Why am I going to make five mistakes?” “Because Alex Toth is a genius and he does things that nobody else does.” He says, “Well, I can figure it out just as well as you.” We’d been talking about Alex on and off, you know, about all the great stuff that he did and all the little nuances in his work. So anyway, that would be the challenge. Now I knew I was going to win, because Alex was very smart and there were things that, if you’re just coloring books on a regular basis, you’re just not going to see. That was the challenge, and Jack would really pay attention to what Alex was doing. I remember one story in particular: a romance story having to do with people going on the balcony and then they go by the ocean and stuff.

A Thorne In My Side Even as DC’s Tomahawk title inched toward cancellation, Frank Thorne was piped aboard as artist and did some stunning work—as, beginning with #131 (Nov.-Dec. 1971), new editor Joe Kubert unofficially retitled the mag “Son of Tomahawk.” In this version, the old frontiersman and his son Hawk fought side by side, three decades after the Revolutionary War. Script by Robert Kanigher. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Mike Burkey. Check out his website at <www.romitaman.com> [©2006 DC Comics.]

Yeah, we ought to do it this way.” I’d say, “Well, we could change it, Jack, or you could throw the other one away.” And Jack would go, “I can’t do that.” I’d say, “Why not? I’m not going to charge any money, Jack. I’m just saving the story.” Jack said, “Well, what if So-and-so saw it?” “Well, you know, Jack, I don’t think he’s going to care. In fact, I don’t even think he looks at this stuff once he colors it.” Jack would say, “Ohh, I don’t know.” “Come on, Jack.” [mutual laughter] I’d be the devil on his shoulder. “Give it to me, Jack. Let me do it.” And I took the other set of color guides, ripped it in half and threw it in his garbage can. I said, “You’ve got to hand it in now, Jack.” “Ohh, oh, okay. All right, all right, all right. Don’t say anything about this.” So he’d hand it in, all right? After a while, I was coloring all of Frank Thorne’s stuff and ripping the old ones up and throwing them away. Then I’d find some other people’s work to recolor. I couldn’t do it all the time. I always had to make a living. And every once in a while, Jack would pull one, you know? Like an Alex Toth story would come in, and it would be handed out. It’d have to be handed out, and we’d have another set of copies. Jack would go, “I’m going to re-color this one,” because now, we had worked out a method.

“Alex Toth Is a Genius; There’s Just No Two Ways About It.” Far from arguing the point with Neal, we’ll content ourselves with repro’ing this Toth-penciled page from Superman Annual #9 (1983)— an issue which obviously guest-starred Batman—and let Mr. A. explain how special art deserves special coloring. [©2006 DC Comics.]

Neal Adams Talks About Working With DC’s King Of Coloring

The job came in, and we’d wait until everybody would leave, and I’d go over to Jack’s desk and he’d slip out the Alex Toth story, and he’d say, “Okay, page — “ And I’d say, “What, page 3. Right, Jack?” “Yeah, page 3.” I said, “Five things, right, Jack?” He said, “Five things. You’ll never find them, never. There’s no mistakes.” I said, “Okay, you see that out on the balcony here, right? And you see this stonework. Now what’s that little slit?” And he said, “That’s more stonework.” I said, “Okay, but you colored it gray.” He said, “Yeah.” I said, “They’re having a party inside, right? This is a mansion. We saw on the previous page it’s a big ballroom.” “Yeah.” “Well, along the outside of this building are more windows. Those are windows, Jack. That little slit is a window, and then down there is a window, and down there is another window. He just left this little slit.” Jack started yelling at me!

Dead Again For a time at DC, Neal Adams seemed to specialize in drawing super-heroes who were deceased—viz., this page from The Spectre #3 (March-April 1968), scripted by Mike Friedrich—then Deadman, as per a pencil layout for the cover of the first issue of a collected Deadman series in 1985, as seen in Arlen Schumer’s Vanguard volume Neal Adams: The Sketch Book, mentioned earlier. Thanks to Glenn MacKay for the Spectre #3 scan. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“Okay, okay, let’s go down to this panel where they’re walking by the ocean.” He said, “That’s not the ocean. That’s sand.” I said, “No, Jack, that’s ocean. That’s how Alex does ocean. He’ll take a thick line and go make a little dip in the line, it’ll flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip and go across the panel. Then just above it, he’ll make another flip-flip-flipflip-flip and then it’ll go off in the blackness. That’s the foam at the top of the waves.” And Jack would start yelling at me again! We played games like that all the time. It would just be insane.

You could do that because Alex Toth is a genius; there’s just no two ways about it. He would do things that you just wouldn’t expect. You couldn’t do that with anybody else. I mean, Alex Toth was like that. But also, we got into color things. You know, how do you do Frank Thorne stuff if it’s Tomahawk and he’s out in the desert? Well, you leave sections of color out and then you wait for a particular part of the story to suddenly expose that color. So now you do five pages and the audience doesn’t recognize that you’re doing five pages and they don’t recognize that you’re leaving a color out. Let’s say you leave blue out or a bluegray. You leave it out by putting the other colors in in such a way that you don’t notice that it’s gone. And then suddenly, you hit night and everything is blue and it’s almost like a shock to your eyes. It’s, “Oh, wow. What happened?” And you didn’t notice that you had less blue out of everything. By doing that, you set up the shock so when the page gets turned, it’s like, “Wow!” Like you just back up and are totally shocked by it. Well, you could do things like that to people like Frank Thorne because Frank Thorne was a consummate artist. He used to illustrate in color. And because he illustrated in color, he thought in color. So when he laid down a picture, he laid it down in tiers of color and a foreground, middle ground, and background. And so if you didn’t know how to color him, you’d be coloring the foreground pretty much the same as you do the middle ground and background and you wouldn’t have the opportunity to save colors because uhh, it’s there so you color it blue, with this you color it red, blah, blah, blah. But that’s not the way he worked. That’s not the way he thought. He thought in colors. So one

day, Frank Thorne came in one day and was searching for the guy who was coloring his stuff. And nobody would reveal it until Jack and I got together on the side and we told him. Frank says, “My stuff is looking so great. It’s incredible.” Totally, totally freaked out at what was happening with his stuff because he had been handing stuff in for, I don’t know, a year or more; and then suddenly—pfft!—turned a corner. But it was such a pleasure, but these are like little, quiet pleasures that only Jack and I knew. The thing is, you can’t go share it with people. “Yeah, we’re throwing your color guides out.” It’s not exactly something that anybody wants to know.

“In That One Half A Minute, We Doubled The Number Of Colors At DC Comics” JA: I would think not. What, in your opinion, did you learn the most from Jack? And how important do you think he was to that company? ADAMS: Well, I think that Jack— [sighs] Everybody makes a contribution. And more often than not, when people make that kind of a contribution, it’s just not recognized until that person leaves. Then suddenly, the standard changes, or whatever it is. Or he’s managed to leave behind enough of what he did that other people pick it up and they move on with it. I think that what happened with Jack was, and it happened mostly with me, but it sort-of happened at the same time, is that when I started at DC Comics, Jack was tied down to a bunch of much less talented people in that production room, all of whom were nice fellows, personality-wise. But then he and I got to work together, and suddenly everything changed: DC Comics was doing things that Marvel Comics wasn’t doing, there were new approaches to color and new approaches to the way to use color, more colors being added that were already there. I mean, in that one half a minute, we doubled the

“Coloring Really Started To Come Back With Jack Adler” number of colors at DC Comics. You know about that story? JA: The story that I heard was that you had found out that Marvel had more colors than DC and no one at DC knew that, or believed it, or understood why.

charge.” Liebowitz storms back to his room, and I’m standing there, going, “I think I’m the only one in the room right now that knows that we are now capable of doing twice the number of colors that we did one minute ago.” [Jim laughs] When I said to you that DC was operating in the Dark Ages— imagine Jack Adler trapped in there? There was a part of Jack that was sitting at his desk, you know, kind-of like giggling [mutual laughter] at the shenanigans going on, all these doors opening up and all this stuff changing. And he sat there, saying, “I knew it all along.”

ADAMS: Well, then I went to talk to Jack about it. He told me why, JA: It’s my feeling that they didn’t take full advantage of Jack’s and Jack knew all along. ability or knowledge. Jack totally knew and he said, “I can’t convince anybody. If we ADAMS: Oh, absolutely! could just get somebody to understand CinFa Absolutely, and I only tapped the what’s going on, we’d have twice as many colors 1960s-70s DC head honcho Carmine resource. I had him do stuff I did for as we have, and we have exactly the color—” Infantino (who sometimes signed himself the National Lampoon, like the by the above abbreviation), as sketched by Then he would pull out a comic book and he’d say, “Son O’ God Comics.” He did the Neal Adams. Taken from Amazing World of “Look at the flesh. It’s pink.” I’d say, “Yeah.” He color separations on it, which were DC Comics #8 (Sept.-Oct. 1975). [©2006 the said, “But it doesn’t have to be pink. Look at the Marvel just fabulous. And the potential of respective copyright holders.] Comics. Their people are flesh-colored.” “You’re right, what he could do—it’s just like Jack. Why are they getting all these colors?” Then I’d start to seeing this raw material. You’ve got look at the Marvel colors, and even though the coloring was bad, they Frank Thorne, you got Alex Toth, you got Jack Adler, you got these had more colors available. So he’d pull out the chart and he said, “Okay, people there willing and able to do the best stuff in the world, and you this is the chart that we’ve been using… and here’s the Marvel chart.” have them in a machine that’s just cranking out trash. It’s a tough, tough He’d pull out the Marvel chart and there’d be twice as many colors. And place to be. And you can imagine why Jack and I had a good time I looked at the chart and I realized we only had a solid yellow. I’d together. actually call for a tone yellow once in a while. I never got it and I kindof wondered why. And I know I’d seen the chart. It wasn’t until then JA: Sure, because until you came along, it doesn’t sound like he really that I realized DC was only using solid yellow in their colors. Jack said, had a kindred soul there. “It’s insane.” He said, [softly] “Can you do anything about it?” [mutual ADAMS: No, not at all. I mean, he had people he liked, like Joe Kubert. laughter] “Ja-a-a-ack, I think I can.” [more laughter] I took it to Sol But Joe really never mixed in, and Joe actually drew comics defensively. Harrison and he said it was going to cost more money. And so I went to I mean, I used to talk to Joe and say, “Joe, why are you letting people Joe Kubert, who was then an editor, and I told him about it and he said, color your stuff so badly?” And Joe said, “Ah, I like the color. It looks “Oh, really?” So he went to Sol, and Sol gave him the same cock-andgreat.” And I said, “Joe, come on. Really, you can’t like it.” He says, bull story he gave to me. Joe came back, he said, “Well, it’s going to cost “You know, if you put enough good blacks in, nobody can ruin your more money and we can’t do it.” story.” So I thought, “See, it’s basically if one guy just repeats the lie, then he JA: Right. That’s what Toth always said. can get away with it forever and he doesn’t realize they’re hurting everybody.” I mean it’s one thing to have a little piece of knowledge and ADAMS: It’s impossible to destroy a story if you’ve got good blacks. to guard that knowledge. But then, to guard it for no reason and then, in They tried! They tried. [laughter] People don’t really talk about the fact, guard it when the alternative would be that everything would get coloring in comics. Now it’s actually become really an art form. But it better, becomes kind of insane. So what I had to do was to go and talk to really started to come back with Jack Adler. Carmine. Carmine went to talk to Sol and Sol gave him the rundown. And I talked with Carmine and Joe and I said, “You know—” Actually, JA: Yeah, and we wanted to give him plenty of attention because I I talked to Joe, I think I went and talked to Joe a second time. I said, think he’s long overdue for it. “You know, I wonder if Jack Liebowitz knows that Marvel gets twice as ADAMS: I totally agree. many colors as we do.”

“Jack And I Had A Good Time Together”

Carmine talked to Liebowitz. Jack Liebowitz came storming out and talked to Sol Harrison. He says, “Sol, why is Goodman is getting twice as many colors as I am? I will be blasted if he’s paying more than I am to get color. That cheap guy has never paid more than I have. What’s the deal? What’s going on?” So Sol called the separator. It turned out it was the same guy working for both companies with these women in Connecticut. Sol asked, “How much more would it cost to get tone yellow with our colors?” The guy at the other end obviously says, “Oh, you want it? You can have it—no problem.” He didn’t take Sol’s hint, you know, charge more money, because he couldn’t. He was already charging DC Comics exactly what he was charging Marvel. So he said, “You want them? You can have them, no problem. When do you want to start? Right away?” Sol said, “Yes, right away.” Then he turned to Jack and said, “Oh, they’ll give us the colors right away; no difference in

JA: I felt Jack was too modest about himself when I interviewed him. He said, “Oh, talk to Neal Adams. He knows more about me than I do.” And I said, “Well, maybe he’ll tell me more about what you did, Jack.” [laughs] ADAMS: Well, likely, I will. JA: What do you think that Jack’s greatest contribution was to comics? He certainly revolutionized color for his time. ADAMS: Okay, let me just try to explain this a little bit. Color is not what somebody likes it to be. Color is not a matter of opinion. It can be. I mean, there are people around who instinctually understand color or understand a way of coloring, so when you see their work, you’re charmed by it, or whatever it is. There is an intellectual side to color that

Neal Adams Talks About Working With DC’s King Of Coloring

“Comics Code 7th Seal Of Approval” The Son-O’-God comics feature in mid-1970s issues of the National Lampoon, with script by Sean Kelly and art by Neal Adams, wasn’t to everyone’s taste. But you can’t fault the art—or, if this were a color magazine, Jack Adler’s coloring! [©2006 National Lampoon, Inc., or its successors in interest.]

is not to say no intelligence. You have to have a certain amount of intelligence, but no applied intelligence. So he made coloring into more of a recognized form, rather than just color on the pages. And at a time when we needed it so badly. If you take Jack and come forward, essentially, Jack’s work is the father of all the new good coloring, because there’s a point at which you can look at comic books—and yes, you’ve seen some good color here and there, spotty here and there—but suddenly, there at a time—and you know, I have to place myself in that time, and myself working with Jack—but we had a small group, he and I, and Jack doing most of the work of people who realized that, yes, there were people who appreciated all the thought and all the study that you’ve put into what you do, and then its application. And that there were people out there in the audience that appreciated it, too, although they might not know why. So it was worth doing. And so, that being worth doing is the thing that the artists that now color are understanding, and so they’re applying it—it’s giving it a sense of worth. That’s what Jack did when he did his work. He gave it a sense of worth. [Jim Amash’s interview with Neal was too long to include in its entirety in this issue, though we did manage to squeeze in most of his comments about Jack Adler. The remainder of this interview will see print in A/E #59, our June issue, which will celebrate aspects of DC icons Batman and Superman—behind an Arthur Suydam painting of the Dark Knight!] people don’t quite understand. It has to do with how color works, it has to do with how light works. Light, for example, works the opposite of color. If you add light, your color gets brighter; if you add color, your color gets darker. So the more color you add, the darker you get. So if you were to add red, yellow, and blue, you’d get a dark gray. If you were to add red, yellow, blue light, you’d get a white light. Light is additive, color is subtractive. So there’s two scientific theories that really make color work. Usually, you don’t find somebody who does coloring in comic books who understands those things and can apply them in a sensible and logical way to create color for thousands of different artists, maybe hundreds of different artists, in ways that complement what their work is and make it sing. Jack understood those things on an intellectual basis. He brought a sense of intelligence and a sense of common sense to coloring to a business that was run viscerally and done randomly with almost—this

Super Is As Super Does Two more superlative Adams covers: World’s Finest Comics #203 (June 1971), as signed by the artist on the original art at a later date—and Heroes against Hunger, a 1986 round-robin one-shot published by DC to raise money for famine relief, inked by Dick Giordano. Thanks to Scott Goodell for the photocopy of the original art to the latter. [©2006 DC Comics.]

JOE KUBERT on JACK ADLER About Schools And Coloring And 3-D—And Friendship Conducted by Roy Thomas

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

oe Kubert is one of the great comic book artists... period. —Roy.

ROY THOMAS: Jack really wanted to make sure I called you, and I’ve kept assuring him, “Yes, I’m going to talk to him.” [laughs] JOE KUBERT: Well, I’m glad. He’s been a good friend and a fascinating guy, a real fascinating guy. One thing I want to mention up front before I forget: when I started the school 30 years ago, one of the guys that I spoke to, one of the few guys I wanted some input from, was Jack. Jack was a guy with whom I discussed what kind of curriculum should be included in the school I wanted to start. And a lot of the stuff, a lot of the advice he gave me, a lot of things we had talked about, I’ve been able to put into the school’s curriculum and institutes for the students’ study. I think that a good piece of the success we’ve had with the school is directly related to the discussions that I had with Jack before I started the school.

Kubert & The (Recent) Kompetition Joe Kubert, as photographed by Jack Adler during the 1970s. Jack wrote on the back of the pic: “One of my favorite people.” At right is the cover of Comic Book Marketplace #92 (July 2002), which featured two (count ’em—two) interviews with Joe, and a cover featuring his classic rendition of the Silver Age Hawkman. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

As a matter of fact, I’d spoken to Burne Hogarth, and I’d spoken to Sol Harrison, and maybe one or two other people. But Jack was extremely helpful in the discussions we had in terms of what we felt was important for anybody who wanted to get into this business to learn.

Heroes By Kubert (Above:) One of Joe’s earliest “Hawkman” stories, in Flash Comics #66 (Aug.-Sept. 1945) introduced an offbeat character called Neptune Perkins, whose skin condition forced him to live in the sea but whose webbed feet enabled him to swim with real porpoise (ouch!). Script probably by Gardner Fox; thanks to Al Dellinges for the photocopy. Nep also appeared in Flash #81—and in the 1980s was inducted by Ye Editor into the All-Star Squadron. Learn more about both his ’40s & ’80s incarnations in The All-Star Companion, Vol. 2—out this June! [©2006 DC Comics.] (Right:) One of Joe's most impressive accomplishments was as the artist/writer of DC's Tarzan in the early '70s. The first eight issues of that series have been collected by Dark Horse in the hardcover Edgar Rice Burroughs' Tarzan: The Joe Kubert Years, Vol. 1. No fan of adventure comic art should be without this breathtakingly beautiful volume. [©2006 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

Joe Kubert On Jack Adler

RT: So it looks as if the school may work out, after 30 years? [mutual laughter] KUBERT: I’ll tell you, I’m amazed that it’s lasted as long as it has. RT: I think you’ve spent more time at running this school than you spent before as just an artist. [laughs] Or about 50-50, anyway. KUBERT: It’s about 50-50 now. But on the other hand, I’ve been able to do my work while the school has been in existence. And if push came to shove—if I was in any way hampered by the school, not doing the work, I would have closed the school up a long time ago. RT: Yeah, it wouldn’t be a substitute for the drawing you do. But as long as we’re talking about Jack, do you remember when or where you might have become aware of him up at DC? KUBERT: He was one of the first guys I met when I went up to DC, but I’m not sure exactly when I met him. I know I’d met Julie Schwartz when he was still working up at All-American Comics. That’s when Shelly Mayer was still editor up there, when I first started doing “Hawkman” and stuff like that. I’m not sure whether I met Jack before I went up to DC. I don’t even remember the first time I went up to DC.

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RT: Oh, sure, because, in 1944-45, AllAmerican was at a different address from DC proper….. KUBERT: Right, that was at 225 Lafayette Street. I’m not sure exactly where, but I know I’ve known Jack for a long, long time. In fact, I met the three guys—Jack and Sol Harrison and—what the hell was the other guy’s name? RT: Ed Eisenberg, maybe? KUBERT: Eisenberg, right. You’re much younger than I, but you knew these guys real early on.

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Anyway, I think Jack is one of the brightest, one of the smartest guys, especially when it came to the technical aspects of the business—production and printing and the plate-making, all those things that were involved. Well, he was head of production, and the reason he was head of production is because he knew it so damn well. Yeah, there’s a lot I want to tell you about

Joe notes that Jack Adler had developed “the best kind of 3-D” for National/DC in 1953—although DC may not have taken full advantage of it, since Roy remembers the company’s Superman 3-D and Batman 3-D comics as being relatively flat compared to St. John’s and Harvey’s. Seen here is the 2-D back cover of Superman 3-D, featuring art by Wayne Boring, et al. [©2006 DC Comics.]

Jack. Let me start out at really the beginning. I met Jack when he was involved in production and doing the colors. And Jack and Eddie used to color my stuff, and they did the best kind of work on my stuff that I knew, especially Jack. The other thing was that, when Norm [Maurer] and I came out with the 3-D comics [for St. John Comics, in 1953]—the guy that came out with the best kind of 3-D, and really tossed us in the ashcan with how good he was doing, was Jack. He was the one that created the 3-D process for DC Comics. And his was way far ahead, far beyond what we were trying to do. He was able to get some sort of a twist so that you could get depth within a figure. Now, DC may not have applied that full effect in their comics. A lot of stuff we saw that he did do was just terrific. It’s funny, I heard the story from Jack later on: they had dumped the responsibility of creating this 3-D on him, and said, “Can you do it? Go ahead and do it.” And Jack just sat down and did it—plus the fact that Jack, as you probably know, is one of the best photographers I know. He’s got stuff that’s absolutely beautiful; pictures that he had taken were absolutely beautiful. And Jack has been, above and beyond everything else—I know a lot of guys in the business, but not a lot of people that I can call friend, and Jack is one of them. Jack is absolutely one of them.

Above: Michael T. Gilbert and Fred Kelly at the 2004 Paradise Toronto Comicon. Below: The Globe’s respectful, if not-entirely-accurate obituary (see next page).

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

NOTE from Canadian comics fan Robert Pincombe: The Globe and Mail obituary [reprinted on the preceding page] is a loving tribute to Fred Kelly, but mistakes crept in. First, premier Canadian-white artist Adrian Dingle is misidentified as “Pringle,” and artist Leo Bachle went on to become an entertainer named Les Barker, not Rex Barker. Though Fred did work for Educational Projects in Montreal (work was work!), he did not actually draw pages featuring all the dignitaries listed. In addition, the wording may lead one to believe that Fred created Canada Jack, which he did not. And finally, although the newspaper account quotes my word “silly” to describe Fred’s thoughts on the newfound attention, Fred thought nothing of the kind. He was surprised and delighted to be remembered for something he cared so passionately about and worked hard on. He just wasn’t the type to gush.

Fred Kelly Remembered (Part 1) by Michael T. Gilbert I can’t honestly say I had more than a passing acquaintance with Fred Kelly. We only met twice, in the course of a three-day comic convention in Toronto in 2004: once on a comic book panel, and then at breakfast the next morning. For most of my life Fred Kelly was just a name on the splash page of an old comic book. But in spite of that, Mr. Kelly had a profound impact on my life. I’ve often told of spending half a buck on a coverless 1947 Canadian comic book at a 1971 New York comic con. The comic featured the Golden Age “Mr. Monster,” written and drawn by Fred Kelly. I was instantly smitten with Kelly’s striking splash page, and when given the opportunity in 1983, I revived Mr. Monster—re-inventing him for a new generation. By then, the Golden Age “Mr. Monster” had been dead almost 40 years. As for Fred Kelly, he’d vanished from the comic scene shortly after drawing that single “Mr. Monster” story. Over the years I often wondered about Fred Kelly. Was he still drawing comics somewhere? Was he even still alive? If so, how would he feel about my reviving his character? My questions seemed destined to remain unanswered. A few tidbits of information popped up here and there. A book on Canadian comics briefly discussed Kelly’s 1940s comic book career. Several of his contemporaries made passing comments about working with him. But beyond that, nothing. Or almost nothing. One such 1973 interview mentioned the fact that Fred had gone into medical illustration after leaving the comic book field. Still later, he sold real estate. Curious, I Googled “Fred Kelly/ Canada/Real Estate.” Instantly, my computer came up with a book on selling real estate, written in 1990 by Fred Kelly. But was it THE Fred Kelly? Not likely. But even if it was, there was no way to track him down. Or so I thought. Sometime in 2003, Roy Thomas informed me that Alter Ego was planning a special issue devoted to Canadian comic book heroes. What better opportunity to write a Fred Kelly tribute? In the course of my research, I made the acquaintance of Robert Pincombe, a Toronto native and a long-time collector of Canadian comics who proved to be a valuable source of information. The Golden Age Mr. Monster was featured on the cover of that issue of A/E (#36). I also drew a splash page with both versions of Mr. Monster to go with my Fred Kelly article. The issue came out near the middle of May 2004. On May 19th, I received the following e-mail from Robert. Its breathless heading screamed: “I Found Fred Kelly!!!!!”

Dear Michael T, The latest issue looks great! I devoured all the articles and artwork voraciously. And your cover is superb. Now for my news... I’ve tracked down Fred Kelly! No, I’m not kidding. I just got off the phone with his wife, Rita, and I’ll be talking to him Saturday to see if he’d be interested in an interview. I will also see if I can get him to join the panel at the Toronto Comicon next month (Roy will be there). If I can get him here, is there any chance you could come down, too? It’d be a great chapter in your search for Fred. I’ll keep you posted! Whew! What a great start to my day! Cheers, Robert Robert will tell you how he found Fred later. But for me, this was stunning news. Fred Kelly—alive? And I had a chance to meet him? This was one offer I couldn’t refuse! Toronto’s Paradise Convention was scheduled for June 18-20, 2004, mere weeks away. The con organizers liked the idea of the two Mr. Monster creators meeting, and put me on their guest list. Ordinarily, a last-minute plane ticket would have been a budget-breaker, but Fate clearly wanted this meeting to happen. First, the con generously agreed to pick up our room tab. More

Fred Kelly Remembered

65 into a monster-fighting hero in Doc’s final adventure (in Super Duper #3). The story that so captivated me probably was done over a single week, almost 60 years earlier. It would have been remarkable if he had remembered, particularly since he left the field shortly after. However, Fred did recall Doc Stearne.

importantly, Janet and I already had tickets to Cleveland. We were visiting Janet’s mom in nearby Ravenna. By sheer coincidence, the con date overlapped, which meant we could drive to Toronto, a mere five hours away. As I said, Fate wanted us to go. After all, this was the 20th anniversary of my first “Mr. Monster” story—almost to the month!

Before he left, I handed Fred an envelope with a check inside. I’m sure Fred wasn’t expecting it. He had created Mr. Monster as a work-for-hire job decades earlier for a long-defunct publisher, and had no financial claim to the character. But I was grateful for the opportunity to finally thank him in a tangible way for his inspiration. It was something I’d wanted to do for decades.

Before we left, I mailed Fred Kelly a package containing all my Mr. Monster books and comics. I also enclosed a letter introducing myself and telling Fred how much I looked forward to finally meeting him.

On June 18th we arrived at the con. We didn’t see Fred that first day, but we did get to gab a bit with fellow con guests Will The next day, Janet and I met Fred and Eisner, Dave Sim, and Roy Thomas. As for Fred and Rita Kelly. Photo by Janet Gilbert, 2004. Rita for breakfast at the Clarion, where Fred, we had no idea what he looked like, we were staying. We talked for an hour or so. Fred was friendly, if but I kept my eye peeled for anyone who resembled an 83-year-old reserved. You could tell he was a no-nonsense guy, with a dry sense of version of Doc Stearne! humor. By contrast, Rita was a charming, talkative woman. We chatted a Next day, Janet and I were sitting at our table shortly before the panel bit about how she and Fred met. In recent years they’d been living part was to begin. My nerves were jangling at the thought of finally meeting of the year in Canada, and the rest of the time in Mexico. This had this legendary cartoonist. I knew he had recently suffered a stroke. caused some major problems when Fred had a stroke south of the Would he even show up? We had met Robert Pincombe at the con, and border and had trouble getting access to his funds. he assured us that Fred would be there, but still…. Fred also talked a bit about his careers as a medical illustrator and, Then I spotted an older couple walking towards us. Was it Fred and later, selling real estate. I was surprised to learn that he’d also continued Rita Kelly? Not quite, but close. Actually, it was Fred’s sister, Lois cartooning after he left the comic book field, illustrating some Canadian Becker, and her husband, Dean, who greeted us warmly. Minutes later, educational comics. He even made some attempts to break into syndiFred arrived. cated cartooning, once coming within a hair of succeeding. This strip was to be a collaboration with famed writer Damon Runyon, until a Fred looked good for his age, though he was wearing a cast and was tragic twist worthy of one of Runyon’s stories scuttled it. We’ll tell that in a wheelchair. His wife Rita was with him. We shook hands for the tale in a future episode. first time minutes before our official meeting on stage. He was lean and intense, and I could definitely picture him looking like Doc Stearne half a century earlier. We spoke for a few minutes. Fred seemed a bit bewildered by his newfound fame. Janet took some photos while Fred signed my coverless issue of that first “Mr. Monster” story. Luckily, I’d remembered to bring it. Seeing the creator of the Canadian Mr. Monster sign the very copy of the comic I’d bought for 50¢ thirty-three years earlier was definitely a surreal moment. Then we were called on stage and officially “met.” It was strange being on a panel with Ed Furness, Jerry Lazare, and Fred Kelly, all legends of Canada’s Golden Age. At 53, I was definitely the kid on the block. After a long question-and-answer session, we milled around a bit talking to fans. Fred and I made plans to meet for breakfast the next day.

All too soon our time was up. Fred and Rita had to return home, so we said our goodbyes and promised to keep in touch. Once home, I mailed Fred the original art to my Fred Kelly Alter Ego tribute page. Some months later, Robert Pincombe told me he’d visited Fred. I was delighted to hear that Mr. Kelly had framed the picture and hung it prominently in his home. Fred’s stroke made writing difficult, so I never received any letters from him. However, when he decided to sell some comic book pages he’d saved since the ’40s (to help pay medical bills), he made me the gift of an unpublished Clip Curtis daily strip. He also made a point of putting aside for me what is likely the only “Doc Stearne” page in existence. That splash page hangs on my wall today, one of my proudest possessions.

Before he left, I asked him if he remembered anything about how he came up with the idea for Mr. Monster. My jaw dropped when he admitted that he didn’t remember Mr. Monster at all! Actually, I shouldn’t have been so surprised. Fred had done seven short stories featuring his two-fisted adventurer Doc Stearne in the ’40s, before turning him

Now Fred’s gone. It’s sobering to think that Fred Kelly, Ed Furness, and Will Eisner are no longer with us, little more than a year after that convention. But all three had a great time at the con, and both Fred and Ed clearly enjoyed this unexpected bit of fame and attention at the end of their lives. And if Mr. Monster and I had a small part in bringing Fred Kelly back into the spotlight one last time, so much the better.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Lord knows we owe him.

Finally, I’d like to share a lovely letter I received from Fred’s brother-in-law, Dean Becker, dated Sept. 27, 2005: Dear Michael, You probably have heard that Fred Kelly died on September 14th. He had been remarkably cheery until the last two days, even though he was fighting health issues. He had not had to spend many days in the hospital since you saw him in 2004. Lois and I were with Rita from the 14th until the 19th –– attending the service celebrating his life on the 17th. I am writing to you because your “rediscovering” him a year ago was a big lift for him, and the many comments about his cartoon career at the funeral… might not have happened without your efforts earlier. Fred was a remarkable man. His list of significant achievements was long—a degree in “Art as Applied to Medicine” from the University of Toronto—a real estate career, selling, developing, building—mastered two languages other than English – owned his own plane – and there are a lot of his oil and water colour paintings in various homes. He was also playing a lot of chess in recent years – especially in his favourite city, San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. And imagine creating a new cartoon character in the early forties that lives on today! It was a pleasure to meet you, and Lois and I are thankful for the lift you gave him when he was alive, and the pleasure you gave Fred. Best wishes to you, Dean Becker Thank you, Dean! The pleasure was all mine. But Robert Pincombe deserves a good deal of credit for rediscovering Fred—after all, he’s the one who tracked him down. Which leads us to our next article, in which Robert provides a nice overview of Fred Kelly’s career, and reveals how he finally found the elusive cartoonist. Take it away, sir….

Fred Kelly Remembered (Part 2) by Robert Pincombe In the early 1940s, as the winds of war blew across the globe, the Canadian government imposed an embargo on imported paper goods from the United States. For kids, this meant sacrificing the colorful adventures of Captain Marvel, Superman, and all their favorite comic book heroes for the greater good. Several Canadian companies stepped into the breach, filling comic book stands with a host of new heroes, all in black-&-white for a dime. Publisher Bell Features had a respected Canadian painter at its helm, art director Adrian Dingle. Dingle was responsible for the look of the entire line, contributing covers and a number of serials like the Sign of Freedom, Clue Catchers, and his signature creation, Nelvana of the Northern Lights. But Dingle had a problem. Most of his well-trained, older artists were off fighting the good fight or getting more lucrative work in the United States.

So Dingle hired talented 17-year-old Leo Bachle, creator of “Johnny Canuck” and over a half dozen other features. This inspired Bell to open the door to a host of youngsters, including young Jerry Lazare, who quickly developed a style all his own. Other artists were less impressive. When young Fred Kelly walked into the office with his samples, the overworked Dingle had low expectations. But Dingle saw potential in Kelly’s work and took the time to critique every page in detail. When Kelly left, Dingle returned to work, never expecting to see him again. But Dingle didn’t count on Fred Kelly’s tenacity. Born in Toronto on Sept. 8, 1921, Fred grew up a skinny child who had to work hard for everything he had. Years later, Kelly packed up his samples, climbed onto his motorcycle, and drove through the dead of winter to a cabin far to the north. While trapping rabbit, drinking whiskey, and chopping wood for his tiny stove, Fred worked on new samples, incorporating Dingle’s suggestions. When these samples were also rejected, he tried again and again – tacking his rejected pages to the walls of his freezing cabin for insulation while drawing with gloves on his hands. Finally, impressed by the youngster’s ability, persistence, and speed, Dingle hired the young man—confident he could meet a deadline.

Fred Kelly Remembered When Leo Bachle left to make his mark in the US, Fred stepped into the breach. Employing his hard-won, bold, confident style, he took over a number of established characters, including “Capt. Red Thortan” and “Active Jim.” Working from the studio he shared with Jerry Lazare above a movie theatre, Fred added a number of his own characters to Bell’s stable: “The Blade,” “Cinder Smith,” “Clip Curtis,” jungle reporter “Betty Burd,” and the creation for which he will later be known, “Doc Stearne.” As the war ended and restrictions were lifted, Bell purchased a new press for color printing to compete with US publishers.

67 he’s still alive, waiting for me to find him?” I recalled Leo Bachle mentioning that Fred had gone into real estate. That was as good a starting point as any. Unfortunately, my computer didn’t find anything useful. But after adding the term “real estate” to the search, I turned up an obscure book, Residential Sales: How to List and Sell the Resale Home by Fred Kelly. Now I was onto something! I found the book in the library and read it cover to cover. The book wasn’t illustrated, but the clear, direct writing style convinced me that this was the Fred Kelly I was looking for.

I called the publisher, only to learn In the last “Doc Stearne” adventure they were no longer in touch with Mr. he would ever draw, Fred gave his Kelly. Another dead end. The book’s signature character a new costume and back cover, now ten years out of date, a new name: Mr. Monster! But when said Fred Kelly divided his time Bell couldn’t get permission from the between northern Ontario and Doc Stearne? Or is that Fred Kelly in 1950 in St. Louis, drawing on a ladder!? Anybody know what Fred did while he was in Missouri? Mexico. I remembered the publisher government to buy enough paper, it mentioning that Fred used to live in threw in the towel. Fred then tried to Owen Sound. After checking, I found only one Fred Kelly living there, break into US newspaper strips. After all, former Bell artist Edmond and his number was disconnected. Did I miss him? Did he pass away Good had gotten a job in the States drawing Scorchy Smith. But Fred’s before I could reach him? efforts failed and he returned to Toronto, where he studied medical illustration at U. of T. Graduating in 1949, he bought his first car (a Then it hit me. If Fred and his wife spent winters in Mexico, they’d convertible) and drove to St. Louis looking for work. After that, Fred disconnect their phone until their return. All I had to do was wait. Kelly disappeared. Months later I called again. This time Fred’s wife, Rita, answered the phone. She confirmed that her husband had written Residential Sales Or so it seemed. and had also drawn comics in the 1940s. Flash forward to the mid-’70s, where my pre-teen self held a copy of Loubert and Hirsch’s Great Canadian Comic Books. The entire book was about Golden Age Canadian comic book publisher Bell Features. Canadian Golden Age comics?! The whole concept blew my poor young mind! One artist in the book stood out: Fred Kelly. His work inspired me to create my own amateur comic featuring “Doc Storm”— cleverly combining his Doc Stearne and Steve Storms characters into one sure-fire hero! Naturally, I signed my nom de plume in Kelly’s signature style. A few years earlier, aspiring cartoonist Michael T. Gilbert had also discovered Fred Kelly. After finding an old comic featuring Kelly’s “Mr. Monster” at a New York Comicon in 1971, a seed was planted. In 1983 the seed sprang forth, and a new “Mr. Monster” was born.

Thrilled, I contacted Roy Thomas and discovered he was already working on a Canadian issue. Talk about timing! I helped out by sending Roy enough scans of Canadian art “to choke a moose” (his words). After the issue came out, I shared Michael T.’s moving Kelly tribute with Fred. Not long after, Roy suggested I take his place moderating a panel on Golden Age Canadian comics at the 2004 Paradise Comics Toronto Comicon. Featured guests included Golden Age artists Ed Furness and Jerry Lazare. My first order of business was to invite the surprised Fred to participate. Then that young whippersnapper, Michael T. Gilbert, joined the group. The panel was a huge success, but more than the panel itself, I have to say my greatest pleasure that weekend was sitting down to lunch with Fred, Lazare, and their respective wives as these old friends caught up after more than fifty years!

In 2002, I began researching the Canadian Golden Age of Comics in earnest and once again came across Fred Kelly. I wondered: “What if

On June 11, 2004, a week before the con, I visited Fred and Rita at Owen Sound and was warmly received. Despite struggling to recover

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! from a stroke suffered in Mexico, Fred granted me a lively interview and shared a small but impressive collection of Bell art he’d saved since the ’40s. I learned that Fred had abandoned medical illustration in 1950 and returned to Toronto. There, he started a career in real estate and met his second wife Rita. He also drew architectural drawings and painted well into his later years. A second visit followed in January 2005. Sadly, after enjoying a final summer with Rita, Fred Kelly passed away on September 14, 2005, due to complications from a stroke suffered two Robert Pincombe, himself! years earlier. I was proud to call this gruff, funny man my friend and will miss him. But I’m thankful to have spent the time I did with him and his beautiful wife. Fred Kelly’s legacy includes a son, two daughters, nine grandchildren, three greatgrandchildren, and a world of comic book adventure the world is finally rediscovering.

Indeed it is, Robert! And we look forward to running your Fred Kelly interview in a future issue! Till next time, Splash panel of the one and only “Mr. Monster” story written and drawn by Fred Kelly, for Super Duper Comics #3 (1947)—with grey tones added by Michael T. Gilbert 40 years later for reprinting in a Dark Horse volume. See this image bigger in A/ E #36. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

See more of Doc Stearne, Mr. Monster, and Fred Kelly in an upcoming issue of Alter Ego, which will reprint in its entirety Michael Hirsch & Patrick Loubert’s 1971 book The Great Canadian Comic Books.

Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

mgilbert00@comcast.net

For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

“Vive La Différence!” ALEX TOTH On Comic Art –––Your Way!

DITOR’S NOTE: Since both Jack Adler and Neal Adams talk about fellow comics legend Alex Toth in this very issue—and indeed, we even feature a rare photo of Alex on p. 38—we’ll just step aside and let him speak for himself. But pay attention, all you would-be comic book world-beaters, ’cause he knows what he’s talking about! —Roy.

Visit the official Alex Toth website at: www.tothfans.com

A Comic Fandom Archive Special Multi-Part Series...

Leonard Darvin Speaks (About The Comics Code)–– & Ted White Answers! Part IV of “1966: The Year Of (Nearly) THREE New York Comicons!” Interview Edited by Bill Schelly

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

hold the post for n issue #53, the Comic something like two decades. At Fandom Archive began this point, we pick up right running a series after Thompson related to what asked the we believed to be audience if they three comics had any conventions held questions. They did, of course…and in New York City in 1966: an earlysome of them proved to be quite in-the-year “mini-con” sponsored by pointed. We’ve had to edit for space, Calvin Beck’s Castle of Frankenstein but have tried to preserve the feel of magazine —a larger convention the exchanges…! hosted by EC fan John Benson—and, only three weeks after the latter, a comicon put on by David Kaler, who AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: Mr. had produced the “Academy Con” Darvin, I have here a piece of the year before. However, I recently original art by Wally Wood from learned that my memory had played T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #2, which tricks on me—and that the Beck con shows a picture of a robot striking a was actually held not early in 1966, as policeman. This was rejected by the I’d recalled—but early in 1967, Comics Code. Do you several months after the believe, or does the Code Benson and Kaler cons. Swat Team – Comics Code Style believe, that if kids see Despite the mis-recolWe couldn’t find either a robot or a cop in all of T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #2—but could the above this, they’ll go out and hit lection, this approximately page from issue #3 (March 1966) being eyeballed by moderator Don Thompson (right) and policemen? Is that why it Leonard Darvin (left) be the one a fan asked Darvin about on the Benson con panel? As it half-year period did see was rejected? turned out, though, reporter Don was not destined to be Comic Code administrator Darvin’s three comicons in New principal antagonist that day in July ’66! York—only now, by sheer DARVIN: No. That’s a Actually, the attackers aren’t really robots—just subterraneans in armor—but they sure look like happenstance, we’ll be very good question. The robots. It’s easy to imagine the policeman in the middle panel being swatted in the next one— covering them in chronoCode has a specific even easier to imagine the Code “requesting” that that drawing be changed to something less logical order! provision which says that “disrespectful” of law enforcement officers. Art by Dan Adkins & Wally Wood, as repro’d in policemen and other DC’s T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents Archives, Vol. 2; scripter unknown. [Art ©2006 John Carbonaro.] Parts I & II presented government officials shall an overall view of the not be put in an embarBenson con at the Park Sheraton Hotel rassing or undignified position. [laughter] Normally, in Manhattan on July 23-24, 1966; and we can allow some violence when police are involved. Part III, last ish, featured a But this is an area where we are very careful. We transcription of the first part of a probably suggested that they change the policeman into debate between Leonard Darvin, an a [security] guard. As long as this provision is in the attorney who in 1966 was the acting Code, we don’t allow cops to be mauled too much, and administrator of the Comics Code we don’t allow police cars to be battered up too badly. Authority, the organization that passed As I say, a criminal can resist arrest, but he can’t judgment on comic book material submitted to it, and Don Thompson, More Than Smoke Gets In Your Eyes journalist and comics fan (and later, In pre-Code days, even cops who didn’t actually get shot with wife Maggie, the longtime coby the robbers were liable to get hurt, as per this panel from editor of Comic Buyer’s Guide). a (coverless) copy of an issue of Lev Gleason’s Crime Does Darvin would soon be officially Not Pay. Art by Fred Kida. Thanks to Jim Amash. appointed administrator, and would [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

Leonard Darvin Speaks––& Ted White Answers

71 DARVIN: First of all, at the time the Code was started, practically every publisher that is in business today was in the business then. A great many of those publishers published material that could not meet the standards of the Code. Because they wanted to remain in the comics field, they adjusted their material [to fit] within the confines of the Code. WHITE: What the Code had—

Three Cheers For the Ted White & Blue By the latter 1960s, science-fiction fan Ted White—already a contributing editor and columnist for the jazz magazine Metronome—was beginning to sell his sf stories and novels, as well; a few years later he would become editor of the sf mag Amazing. Above is a caricature of Ted drawn by his then-wife Sylvia for his article on DC Comics in Dick & Pat Lupoff’s fanzine Xero #2 (1961). [©2005 the respective copyright holders.] At right is the (uncredited) cover of the 1968 paperback Captain America: The Great Gold Steal written by White—the second novelization starring a Marvel super-hero (the first had been Otto Binder’s Avengers novel a year or so earlier). Roy Thomas recalls Stan Lee having him “vet” the C.A. manuscript. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

overcome the policeman in too direct a fashion because of the Code. Some of the major areas where we feel that a child might be badly influenced by what he sees are, for example, when it comes to poison. We don’t usually allow the story to delineate what kind of poison, especially if it’s a kind that’s available to a kid. Another example: we had a story the other day in a humorous context where a kid, a baby about three years old, took the key and opened a parking meter and the money fell out, quite accidentally. [audience chuckles] Meanwhile, something like that had happened in the news. So we asked the publisher to eliminate that sequence, and it involved getting rid of the whole story, because this is big news today, and people will say he found it in a comic book. So, fighting police—we tone that down, although not always, and depending on the situation. THOMPSON: There’s a hand in the back there. TED WHITE: Are you prepared to defend the harassment of EC comics by the Code, which destroyed EC? [audience applauds loudly] DARVIN: Well, if I were Bill Gaines, I would contribute to the government at least 10% of what I made as a result of the Code activity, because he made a great success out of Mad magazine when it was eliminated as a comic and became a satire magazine. WHITE: That had nothing to do with the Code. Going to magazine format was Harvey Kurtzman’s own idea. Can you defend how you managed to put the best science-fiction, the best war, and some of the other best magazines out of business? DARVIN: Let’s answer that in its proper context. We did not put anybody out of business ... [interrupted by audience reaction] WHITE: You directed their distributors that they would not be carried, you censored stories, you tried to remove Negro characters from stories where the whole point was tolerance. I’m well aware of these examples. Let’s see you defend them. [audience applauds]

DARVIN: Now wait a minute! You asked the question, and I’m trying to answer you. I may not answer to your satisfaction, but I’m trying. Now, those companies managed to stay in business and be very successful, working within the self-imposed Code. Secondly, there remained other publishers who did not join the Code, who have still not joined the Code. There was no coercion that could be applied to them. When you say EC was forced out of business—first of all, your sympathies are misdirected, because EC has done very well for itself. They haven’t been lost, because they’ve since been published in paperback book form. Finally, if EC felt very strongly about remaining in the comics field, they could have done it without the Code, just as Dell did, just as Classics did, just as Western has done since. So when you say that we burned them out, that is ridiculous. Actually, it was a fortuitous circumstance, because [EC] put out Mad as a satire book, and it became tremendously successful. They eventually sold it for a million and a half dollars, and now National owns it. And it’s still edited by the same people, so where is the loss? WHITE: Would you really like to know, or are you just professing platitudes? DARVIN: Well, where is the loss? WHITE: Where is the EC Comics line? Is it alive or is it dead? DARVIN: It’s in the form of paperback books. WHITE: It’s in the form of reprints, but they’re reprints of material done in the early ’50s. Why is there no opportunity for that kind of material to be done today? DARVIN: I’d say that, if Bill Gaines and Harvey Kurtzman wanted to put out comics, … they could have worked within the Code and still created significant creations just as Marvel has done, just as National’s done, just as Archie and Harvey and American Comics Group and Western are doing. WHITE: Can you acquaint me with the work of these other companies that is on the level of what EC was doing in terms of artwork and stories? DARVIN: I certainly can. I think you have many in this room today that are doing far better work than EC ever dreamed of. I think you people just have a sentimental attachment to— WHITE: I defy that you find one example of artwork of the quality of Wally Wood or Al Williamson of that period, to say nothing of Bernie Krigstein. DARVIN: I assure you I can show many examples.

1966: The Year Of (Nearly) Three New York Comicons––Part IV

WHITE: Why did the Comics Code want to remove a Negro character from a story, the point of which was tolerance? DARVIN: Now you’re getting into a very sensitive area…. WHITE: You’re damned right! [audience laughs] DARVIN: …because you’re completely wrong, and you’re being maliciously wrong. First of all, today, we have comics that do deal with Negro characters, and they have Tales Calculated To Drive You Bankrupt no greater supporters than the Association This “quintych” of Ballantine paperback covers from the 1960s—as juxtaposed in Digby Diehl’s excellent and me, personally. I might tell you that hardcover study Tales from the Crypt: The Official Archives—demonstrate Len Darvin’s point that EC “lived some of the leaders of this industry are very on.” But somehow, black-&-white re-formatted paperback books was not quite what Ted White and other active in this kind of work. This is the kind EC Fan-Addicts had in mind! In their view, the Comics Code Authority had hounded EC out of business. of statement that, if it ever went public, [©2006 William M. Gaines Agent.] would create a very unfair and I’d say a different races. Unfortunately, these things exist. As long as there was no mindless slur against the industry, because this is an area that the Code ridicule, as long as there was no prejudice shown from the standpoint of says nothing about. If anything, the Code very specifically forbids any the editor or magazine itself. kind of ridicule. It says, “ridicule or attack on any religious or racial group is never permissible.” We are absolutely in favor of any interracial THOMPSON: We have a question from a current writer for the comics. activity of a dignified nature. I think you’re absolutely distorted in your Roy? viewpoint. I really feel very badly that you feel it necessary to attack the ROY THOMAS: I don’t want to get bogged down in specific Code from an area that has no valid basis whatsoever. instances, but I was wondering if you, Don, could give a slight WHITE: All right, can you explain to me the basis in the actual text rundown of the story “Judgment Day,” which is another of the of the Code for harassing EC during its last year of publication of specific instances [Ted White mentioned]. However, before you do, comic books? Specifically, the attempt to stop the publication of I’d like to state that, as Mr. Darvin said in the beginning, and some “Judgment Day”? Are you familiar with the way in which a[n issue of you seem to forget, he was not actively reading and passing of] Psychoanalysis was not permitted to have the protagonist be judgment on every single story 10-15 years ago—and therefore, he Jewish, although the author of the story was also Jewish? cannot be held personally and criminally responsible. [audience applauds] DARVIN: I’m not familiar with these instances. WHITE: Let’s see you defend these examples where you had apparently singled out EC for harassment in order to drive them out of the field of comic book publishing. And this was done. DARVIN: Well, I’m not aware of these instances. EC had to make some changes, the same as everybody else did. They could have made these changes. DON THOMPSON: Excuse me a moment. Among these specific stories he’s referring to, I’ll give you a quick rundown on the story Ted mentioned, that [actually] appeared in Impact, an EC Code comic. There was this one soldier of whom everybody said, “He’s one of those, we don’t want anything to do with him, you can tell by his name what he is,” and so forth. The character’s name was “Miller,” and all I can come up with from the name “Miller” is that he is English, and I don’t think it takes any real deductive reasoning to see that his name was originally Jewish or perhaps Polish or French, but certainly not “Miller.” The story was written by Al Feldstein, who is Jewish. It’s obvious this wasn’t changed by EC. It must have been changed by the Code, and if this is a specific example, then maybe you’d like to mention— DARVIN: I’m not familiar with the story. I can only tell you that, if the story does feature someone of another race or someone who was looked down on, or in some way discriminated against by the other characters in the story, as long as it came out all right…. This is an unusual storyline that I don’t think anybody can find any fault with. I think you’re giving the Code a lot of hell for things that the authors or the artists are guilty of. I mean, if they choose to write a story in a certain way or draw it a certain way, we don’t tell them to do otherwise. We’re concerned only with these few basic rules of good taste, and beyond that, it’s in the area of the author or the editor. Now in that particular instance, I don’t recall the story. But we wouldn’t [count] as a Code violation the mere fact that the story was a conflict between people of

THOMPSON: The story “Judgment Day” has been reprinted in a contemporary Ballantine collection, Tales of the Incredible #1. In this story, an investigator for the Galactic Federation goes to a planet where the people of the Federation had placed robots years before, and he has come to decide if they have advanced their civilization far enough so that they can have full membership in the Federation. There are two types of robots. One is orange and one is blue, and the orange robots are dominant. The only difference in the robots is in the color of the outer covering and in the education that they are given. The blue ones are given an inferior education, and on the last page the investigator points out this unfairness and says, “You are not ready. When you are ready, we’ll come back and check you again. But meanwhile, look at yourselves.” He gets on his ship. At this point, we have not seen the investigator clearly. He is in a spacesuit because that planet has an atmosphere inimical to man. It is then revealed that he is Negro. This is in the last panel, which I have been informed by the people at EC the Code insisted be changed. This was a reprint in an issue of Incredible Science Fiction. It had originally appeared in Weird Fantasy and had drawn praise from such people as Ray Bradbury, as well as the regular fans of the magazine. AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: Maybe I’m mixed up [laughter], but with this Code, like if my mother doesn’t want me to read a comic book, she will just tell me. I mean, if the public likes it, why not give it to the public? You’re defeating your own purpose, because they’re giving you reprints. So the Code’s not doing anything whatsoever, right? [audience applauds] DARVIN: Well, the point is this: the Code only deals with comic magazines as we understand them. In other words, these colorful fourcolor booklets sold for 12 or 25 cents, which for some reason or another are read mainly by children. Because of the history of abuse and the resulting pressures that were placed by government, by church, by civic

Leonard Darvin Speaks––& Ted White Answers parent groups, it was necessary for the industry, for its own survival, to institute this self-regulation program, which we’re trying to administer in an even and just manner without too many restrictions that are unneeded. Beyond that, we do not go. THOMPSON: We have a question from the only reporter in the room. Yes? PAUL KRASSNER: Mr. White said the Comics Authority has put pressure on distributors. Now you talk about how far should the Code go. Isn’t that kind of pressure going too far? [NOTE: See A/E #54 for a photo of Krassner, who wrote an article on the comicon for the Playboy imitator Cavalier, and had his own publication, The Realist.] DARVIN: Well, I should say so, because it isn’t true. It is absolutely against the Anti-Trust laws for us to put any kind of pressure that would be effective. There are two types of distributors: the national and the local. And then, of course, there’s the retailers. The farthest we can go, and the farthest we ever have gone, is to publicize through various means—by articles, by sometimes advertising in trade journals of one of the distributors, by going to their conventions and making speeches to urge them to look for the Seal on the cover—but we, at no time, told any distributor that you cannot distribute this magazine. We’ve never done that, because, if we did, first of all, we’d be in violation of the law. Secondly, from the very beginning, we have had as members 80% of the publishers. King Features just joined. We could very easily have gone to wholesalers throughout the country and said to them, “Look, buddy, you either handle our 80% or the other 20%. Then we’d really have something there, but we’ve never done it and we don’t want to do it. So this breast-beating over these things is completely in the wrong, and has no relation to reality in any sense and any manner, shape, or form. WHITE: I beg your pardon! Don, will you enlighten this gentleman about the publications they put out shortly after the Code began functioning, which listed a number of distributors and members of

the Code? Now if it isn’t putting pressure on, I don’t know what is. But EC joined that Code because they knew they couldn’t get distributed without it. Dell and Classics Illustrated were the only two major companies that were able to survive without the Code seal, and the Code put a great deal of pressure on Classics Illustrated, and Classics Illustrated knew that none of the classics would survive the Code. [audience laughs] DARVIN: The reason no pressure was put on Classics is because they’re still selling books they put out in the ’40s and because they don’t have periodicals. They’re books, they’re not magazines. [At this point, moderator Don Thompson recognizes a member of the audience.] AUDIENCE MEMBER #3: Do you claim the Comics Code didn’t put extra pressure on EC? DARVIN: The Comics Code did no more with EC than it did with anyone else. The Comics Code dealt with materials, specific material, not a type of story. [audience murmurs] And Bradbury and Crandall and all these fellows are perfectly welcome, and we want to have them in the comics field. I assure you they’d have no particular problem with the Code. You know, I think you all ought to sign a petition asking for the revival of EC Comics. [applause] I think if you could guarantee them a 300,000 circulation to start with, I’m sure he [Gaines] would start it again. He would do very fine then. AUDIENCE MEMBER #4: I was wondering if you could explain why it is that so many people seem to believe there was pressure put on EC Comics. And also why so many people seem to believe, at least in this room, that EC was a worthwhile comic that did not seem to fit into the Code’s structure, which you seem to feel would encourage worthwhile comics. Why do you feel that there is this antagonism between the two of us? DARVIN: I think because EC represented probably the quintessence of the type of horror or terror comics that you people who are professional comic fans and collectors seem to feel were the Golden Age of Comics. EC represents to you a company that achieved a point of finesse. But I think one of the defects in the professional collector’s viewpoint is that he looks upon comics only from the standpoint of super-hero and horror comics. Actually, some of the most popular comics aren’t in those areas at all. There is the teenage field, there’s a fashion field, there is a war field, there’s a Western field, but this all escapes you. None of you is interested in it. Now I say to you, and I’m

Here Comes The Judge! The EC story “Judgment Day” was originally published in Weird Fantasy #18 (MarchApril 1953)—but attempts to reprint it three years later in Incredible Science Fiction #33 (Jan.-Feb 1956) reportedly met with stiff resistance from the Comics Code. When given a tour of the Earth colony by his orange robot guide, the spaceman Tarlton, whose face is hidden by his helmet till the final panel, notes and judges discrimination against the planet’s blue robots. Apparently, when it was revealed in the final panel that Tarlton was what was then termed a black man—the Code saw red. Publisher Gaines and editor/writer Feldstein refused to change the panel, but that became the last issue of ISF. Art by Joe Orlando. Repro’d from Russ Cochran’s indispensable The Complete Weird Fantasy, Vol. 4. [©2006 William M. Gaines Agent.] Ironically, the first Comics Code administrator was also a judge: Judge Charles F. Murphy—seen above with “before” and “after” versions of a Joe Sinnott panel from the story “Sarah” that appeared in Timely/Atlas’ Uncanny Tales #29 (March 1955), in the earliest days of the Code. This photo appeared in Digby Diehl’s 1996 book; for more on the controversy over this story, see Jim Amash’s interview with Joe Sinnott in A/E #26.

1966: The Year Of (Nearly) Three New York Comicons––Part IV

Baby, It’s Code Outside Four comics companies that never signed on with the Code were Gold Key, Dell, Gilberton, and Warren Publishing, as exemplified by this quartet of 1960s covers: Magnus – Robot Fighter #21 (Feb. 1968)… Kona – Monarch of Monster Isle #5 (Jan.-March 1963)… Classics Illustrated #160 (Jan. 1961)… and Creepy #1 (1964). Note that, though Warren opted for black-&-white interior art and a magazine size, it still splashed the word “comics” prominently on the cover. [Art ©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

certain that it annoys you, that EC could have worked within the Code. They had the ability to create masterpieces within the Code just as they did without the Code. And they just simply chose not to adapt themselves. Their reasons may have been many. In fact, one of the reasons I bring up next is my belief that the successful formula for Mad simply made them feel it was unnecessary to be in the comics field, the same as twenty other publishers who went out of the comics field at the same time. They decided it didn’t pay. There were publishers who were more successful than Gaines at that time that are no longer in it: Quality, Lev Gleason, and others. So you don’t know the inside story. People are just setting up a bogeyman that has no basis in fact. You’re just simply beating a dead horse. AUDIENCE MEMBER #5: Over the past years, there has been a growth in non-Code publishing: Gold Key, Dell, Gilberton; plus the 25¢ slightly-oversized black-&-white comics. In view of this trend, do you anticipate the Code continuing? Do you think the Code will just gradually fade out of existence? I will guess you were going to say “No” to that. [audience chuckles] DARVIN: The only additional comics publisher that came in that did not join the Code was Western, and that was during the same period that four other publishers came into the field who did join. So I feel that there is not, as yet, any attrition as far as Code coverage goes. If anything, we have more titles in proportion today covered by the Code than before. I would say the only time where the Code would be in danger of going out of business would be if a publisher of some size came out and did the kind of things we’re discussing here: went into horror, terror, and sex, and was successful, and got a large section of the market that would encourage others to do the same. I think then the Code would be on very shaky grounds. Now, whether that will ever come, I don’t know. One can’t foresee the future. When I joined in 1955, I told my wife I’d give this assignment three months. Well, it’ll be eleven years, so I don’t know. It’s a voluntary movement, that’s the thing you’ve got to keep in mind. Apparently, it works for the publishers. They did not feel the restrictions, and as long as it serves their purpose and has public support as

we have, it will exist. Right now, we’re as strong as we ever were. WHITE: Yet there’s a certain inconsistency when you’re saying that horror comics were a very minor segment of successful comics, and then you say, “If we allow the sex/horror/sadism comics to come back in, they would swamp the field.” Now don’t you find that just a little illogical? Furthermore, are you convinced that the majority of your readers are under eight years old, considering the fact that a rather objective study has shown that something like half of all readers of comic books are in the United States Army? [audience laughs] DARVIN: First of all, you didn’t quote me correctly. I didn’t say that if these comics came back, they would take the majority of the market, or any substantial part. As a matter of fact, that type of comic book never had more than 10% of the number of titles and never had more than 10 or 15% of the readers. But that 10-15% is still attractive enough for some flim-flam fellows to come into the field. Secondly, I never said, and of course it isn’t true, that the majority of comics readers are below eight. We have studies to prove that the majority of comics readers would be [in the] 8- through 14-year-old group. And in recent years, especially from the past year, we’ve developed a sizeable readership among the college crowd. We’ve always had a military readership. But we sell between 30 to 35 million comics a month in the summertime. And of this number, at least the majority are sold to kids between 8 and 13, so that’s nice. The point is this: the industry has to be concerned about the attitude of parents, with organized teachers, with organized government. If the concept exists—that comics are a children’s medium—we’ve got to toe a certain mark. If you people can’t appreciate that, you don’t understand the field. I’m against censorship or the restriction of the media. The only time I view it at all valid is where the children are involved, because they don’t have the judgment to choose themselves.

Don & Maggie Maggie Thompson spoke up at the panel moderated by husband Don. Here are the couple—as relative newlyweds—at the time of the March 1964 “Alley Tally,” counting votes in the first fan awards poll at the home of A/E founder Jerry Bails. With thanks to Maggie Thompson.

MAGGIE THOMPSON: You said in your opening speech that it is possible to appeal a decision by the Code, but it’s never been done—and I wonder if it’s never been done simply

Leonard Darvin Speaks––& Ted White Answers

because there’s an awfully tight time element involved in publishing. How long would such an appeal take? Is it worth the publisher’s time to take it back? DARVIN: Logistically, we could convene a meeting within two or three days, so the deadlines could be met. When we have a correction of any kind of consequence, we generally discuss it with the editor or the writer and we say what we think this ought to be. He says, “Well, how about we try this?” And usually, we get together. That’s why I say it’s not a fine line, and many times I want to kick myself in the pants all the way for allowing what we have allowed. But our aim is to go along with the writer as far as we can. AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: Mr. Darvin, why must the Code, which is set up to protect the children, be applied to those books that are aimed at a more adult audience, such as the Marvel books, which are very big among the college crowd, and The Spirit, which cannot really be enjoyed by the younger children and, as a work of art, can be enjoyed by the adult audience?

Hey, Kids—“Adult Comics”! When Len Darvin said that some 1966 comic books were being written for an audience not made up of the youngest children, he referred to such specimens as Marvel’s Amazing Spider-Man and reprints of Will Eisner’s Spirit. Harvey’s The Spirit #3 would be published for May 1967, while Stan Lee & Steve Ditko had sent Spidey to a psychiatrist in #24 (May 1965), in a tale heralded on its cover as being a “smashing off-beat thriller for the great new breed of magazine reader—for YOU!” Little did Darvin or the rest of the panel suspect what was in store for the comics medium a few decades down the line! Art at left from The Essential Spider-Man, Vol. 2. [Spider-Man art ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Spirit art ©2006 Estate of Will Eisner.]

DARVIN: I think you make an excellent point, one that we’ve discussed philosophically in our newsletter and in our discussions. If we could make the distinction in the public mind that this is a magazine like Creepy, that was mentioned before—that it’s not a comic book because it’s not in four colors, because it’s sold for 35¢, and we hope that it’s sold away from the comics stand—! So the public may be clear on that point, though some are confused. But when you take the four-color type of publication that happens to have a title like The Spirit or Spider-Man, which are more sophisticated titles, there is no way to convince the public that this is not an ordinary comic book, which in the public mind is for children. The problem started the last time in the early ’50s, because fellows like those who put out the horror types said, “These are not intended for children.” The public wasn’t able to make the distinction. The only thing we’re trying to do is make the Code and its activation flexible enough so that a person about the level of sixth grade can enjoy reading it. AUDIENCE MEMBER #7: Concerning The Spirit, these are reprints of seven-page comic inserts that had appeared — DARVIN: In the Sunday newspaper. That’s one of the reasons we accepted it, because they were in a public newspaper. [as Don Thompson calls on an audience member with his hand up] I think we’re running over time. THOMPSON: I think we have time for one last question. AUDIENCE MEMBER #8: In reference to the revival of The Spirit, a very important character has been omitted—Ebony White. Is that done because of any prejudicial fears on the part of the Code? THOMPSON: I do have a little background in this. This is the choice of Mr. Eisner himself. Ebony White was a caricature Negro of the type which was unfortunately popular in the early ’40s. I’m sure that’s why he never used any of the stories featuring Ebony for the Harvey reprints. In A/E #58, after one issue off because of the humongous Timely/Marvel 1939-58 Super-Hero Index, this series on the 1966 John Benson/New York comicon will present a transcript of another interesting panel: “The Forgotten ’50s,” with Bhob Stewart, Archie Goodwin, and a somewhat calmer Ted White. Be here! On a note of self-interest, please check out my website at www.billschelly.com to find out which Hamster Press books are currently available. There’s lots of information there to help you choose among our selection. These books DO sell out, you know. Examples of no-longer-available books are The Comic Fandom Reader, The Best of Alter-Ego, and Words of Wonder: The Life and Times of Otto Binder.

Tom Gill (1913-2005) “His Influence Changed Many Lives”

by Jim Amash

om Gill had a long, distinguished, multifaceted career that I wish was still continuing. He was a self-taught artist who, like many teenagers of the 1930s, thought that the life of a newspaperman was glamorous and exciting. Movies like The Front Page served as reinforcement for that ideal. Tom wanted to be an artist on a newspaper and didn’t care how he got to be one. Following the example of Horatio Alger, Tom started at the bottom, in the mailroom of The New York Daily News, figuring he’d eventually work his way up to the staff artist position. In his spare time at the paper, Tom hung out with the staff cartoonists, making friends with luminaries such as Ed Sullivan and Paul Gallico. (Top of page:) Artists Tom Gill (at right) & Joe Sinnott, Eventually, Tom came a copy boy. in a photo taken in June 2000. Courtesy of Joe.

was Tom Gill who prepared a map of Hawaii for publication in the newspaper. He also became more involved in drawing comic books, working for Fox Comics [“K-51”], Curtis Publications [Blue Bolt, etc.], Parents Magazines [True Comics], and Catechetical Guild [Topix]. Tom left the Daily News in 1946 to draw the syndicated newspaper strip Flower Potts (later renamed Ricky Stevens). After the strip was discontinued, Tom turned his full attention to comic books, drawing romance stories for Harvey Publications, war stories for Ziff-Davis, Westerns for Toby Press, Westerns, crime, war, romance, sports, horror, and science-fantasy for Timely Comics [later known as Marvel Comics, of course]. Joining Dell Publications sometime in the late 1940s, he drew The Lone Ranger, in addition to books like Hi-Yo Silver, Bonanza, and many television and movie adaptations. He also briefly ghosted the Lone Ranger and Hopalong Cassidy newspaper strips.

Tom had begun teaching at the School of Visual Arts, and was able to hire many of the best (Above:) A Gill panel from the final page of the origin The road to that artist’s job was slow, retelling from Dell’s The Lone Ranger #105, as students, a situation that served both mentor and but in those dark Depression days, Tom reprinted in Dave Holland’s massive LR tome From Out protégés such as Bernie Case, Jimmy Christiansen, felt fortunate just to be working. His of the Past. [Art ©2006 Lone Ranger Television, Inc.] Danny Crespi, Keats Petree, Herb Trimpe, John idealism and desire paid off, as by 1940 Verpoorten, and Gill Evans, among many others. Tom joined the art department of the His most famous assistant was the legendary Joe Sinnott, who became Daily News. He was taught the tricks of the trade by veterans such as one of the best inkers in comic book history. According to Joe, Tom was Carl Ed [pronounced with a long “e”] and Leo O’Mealia, and began a terrific boss who treated his assistants with respect and honesty. moonlighting as a comic book artist, an idea he may have gotten from O’Mealia, who was a former DC Comics artist. When Western Publications split with Dell in the early 1960s and began publishing under the Gold Key imprint, Tom continued on with When Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese on Dec. 7, 1941, it The Lone Ranger, Bonanza, the Boris Karloff titles, The Owl, Ripley’s Believe It or Not, Tonto, and The Twilight Zone, among other titles and one-shots, finally leaving comics behind when the work dried up in 1972. Tom continued teaching at several schools, drawing many juvenile Yesterday, October 19, 2005, I lost my mentor. books and handling commercial art projects for various companies.

A Word From Artist JOE SINNOTT

Jim Amash left a message on my answering machine, informing me that Tom Gill had passed away. What a full life he had led, teaching comic art all day at school, working nights and weekends, drawing everything from “Red Warrior,” “Kent Blake,” The Lone Ranger, to movie adaptations such as Western Union and more for Timely, Dell, Fawcett, and others. Tom’s wife Trisk called the next day to tell me the whole story of his passing, and to tell me how Tom was always proud of my contribution to the comics industry since 1949. Tom liked my work while I was a student of his at the cartoonist’s and illustrator’s school, and asked me to be an assistant of his at his studio in Rockeville Center. I’m forever grateful to Tom for the knowledge and inspiration he contributed to my formative years in the comic art business. Tom had it all. He was talented, articulate, humble, generous, considerate—a real gentleman! I will miss him always—he made it all possible for me.

Tom may be best-known for being the definitive Lone Ranger comic book artist, but I suspect teaching brought him the most satisfaction. Tom was justifiably proud of the fact that he mentored thousands of students who went on to productive art careers. His influence changed many lives, which I think is his greatest legacy. On a personal note, I must say that Tom was one of the more enthusiastic interviewees I have encountered. Age may have robbed him of his ability to draw, but his spirit and energy levels were as high as ever. Tom had an uncommon zest for life and the people in it, and the joy with which he recounted his life and career for me was exhilarating. He was very appreciative of the fact that I wanted to give him an extended interview for Alter Ego (#43). Tom wanted to be remembered and, so long as the students who fell under his magic spell live, he will be. And for those who never had the chance to meet him, there are tons of old comic books that display efforts of a dedicated craftsman who only wanted to please his audience. And that, he most certainly did.

77 Gentlemen, What a Day!! I came back from my trip and found the copies you sent of Alter Ego #47. I have been reading and re-reading the articles and really studying the art of my uncle—the whole time learning so much more about him! My Uncle Fred and I are very pleased with your handling of the information and are grateful for your expert skill in bringing Uncle Matt’s achievements to life. As for the first article, by Alberto Becattini, I am delighted to see so many titles and “new” pieces of Matt Baker’s work. It is interesting to read the various encounters people had with my uncle and their descriptions of this industry during the mid-20th century. To both of you [Roy and Jim], thanks for making a simple inquiry into something that I and my family will cherish for the rest of our lives. Also, thank you, Matt Thorn, for connecting me with these two great people. Matt D. Baker The pleasure was all ours, Matt. You and your uncle Fred have done not just your own family, but the history of the comics medium, a real service. But now, because we only have a few pages for this truncated “re:” section, we’ll move right on to a note from Hames Ware, comics historian and, as it happens, co-writer of “The Great Unknowns” series which also appeared in #47: Jim & Roy—

oy here. In keeping with this issue’s celebration of Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster and DC “coloring guru” Jack Adler, we’ve opened with Shane Foley’s rousing rendition of our super-hero “maskot” Captain Ego doing homage to Shuster’s rousing cover for 1938’s Action Comics #1. Way to go Shane! [Art ©2006 Shane Foley; Captain Ego TM & ©2006 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.] But seriously, folk (as Goldie Hawn used to say on Laugh-In)… before we get down to the Mt. Olympus of mail on A/E #47—the Matt Baker issue—I should mention that I also received a phone call from sf (that’s “speculative fiction”) writer Harlan Ellison. He was ecstatic to have learned that the “Matt Baker” who illustrated a couple of his very first published short stories was indeed, as he had long suspected, the artist of Phantom Lady, et al. Harlan, as always “ass deep in work,” to use his evocative phrase, volunteered to send us copies of those illos, but never got the chance… so, could some Ellison aficionado out there possibly provide us with copies of those late-’50s/early-’60s art spots? Harlan—and we—would love to see (and print) them. Now to a missive from Matt Baker’s namesake nephew, Matt D. Baker, who was interviewed in issue #47 along with his uncle, Fred Robinson, the Golden Age artist’s half-brother:

Words fail me. The Matt Baker tribute is one I’ve waited a long time for… maybe since 1956 or so (which is ironically the year S.M. Iger told me Baker had died!). Though Matt Baker is long gone, the eloquence and memories of his half-brother and nephew somehow carry a personal heartfelt reflection of both the man and the times… just wonderful…absolutely wonderful. Jim’s thoughtful, never-intruding, insightful questions… all the ingredients combine for the best possible tribute this great artist has ever had or will ever have. It cannot be bettered.

Pantin’ For The Phantom Lady What? You didn’t think we weren’t going to toss in another Phantom Lady drawing by Matt Baker at the first available opportunity, did you? This splash from Fox Comics’ issue #16 (Feb. 1948) was retouched by Bill Black and his AC Comics crew for their Golden-Age Greats Spotlight, Volume One—a Phantom Lady special! See AC’s ad in the FCA section. [Restored art ©2006 AC Comics.]

I appreciate so much you two managing to get in the reference to “Ace Baker,” and I’m wondering, Jim, if there’s hope that John Baker’s children might surface with some samples of his art. Also, I’m intrigued by the highlighting of an artist I’ve been only dimly aware of: Frank Giusti. Lou Cameron, I believe, mentioned to Jim Vadeboncoeur and me that Baker had an Italian pal who was a comic book artist, but he could only recall the first name: Frank. Now I’m wondering if “Ace Baker” turns out not to be John Baker… maybe he will turn out to be Giusti! I say all this because I still contend that no artist could steal another artist’s style for five years so completely and fill the pages of the leading romance publisher (Ace) without the collaboration of or at least the sanctioning of the artist hiself… ergo my stronger-than-ever belief that “Ace Baker” is either partially Matt himself and/or family (his brother John) or best friend (Giusti). Hames Ware You’ve set our heads spinning with your speculations, Hames—but maybe somebody out there will be able to

re:

straighten us both out.

years that preceded his death. I guess he stayed in the animation business, doing commercials. If there’s anybody out there who knows something more about him, please get in touch with me c/o Alter Ego.

Following, we have a letter from former cartoonist and now writer-ofactual-books Trina Robbins, whom Ye Editor’s been happy to call a friend since the halcyon days of the late 1960s….

Again, thank you so very much for all you’ve done to make my efforts shine on paper. It’s really a dream come true for me.

Hi, Roy— Thanks so much for the fabulous Matt Baker issue of Alter Ego. It’s a saver for us Baker fans.

Alberto It’s we who should thank our contributors, Alberto—since without you guys, A/E would still be just a flip section in the back of somebody else’s magazine! I want to print that other piece or two you’ve written for us, as well, as soon as I can! It’s killing me to have to put out only eight issues this year, with all the excellent material I have on hand!

And now some mild objections: it’s a mistake to think that the only Matt Baker fans were young—or not so young—men, or boys who lusted after Baker’s beautiful renderings of women. Girls loved him, too, and here’s one now to tell you why.

His women, from Tiger Girl to Mysta to Camilla to Glory Forbes (and yes, even the Lucille Ball-esque Sky Girl) were not While Alberto sent us additional info re merely beautiful, but powerful and in Hames and Jim V.’s article, letter-scribe control. They solved their own problems Denys Howard sent a bit of added info and fought the bad guys without ever re Alberto’s…! needing a guy to rescue them. Baker drew them in great action poses, and if they Roy— flashed a little leg while leaping across the Thanks for the great issue on Matt page or swinging from vines, it was pretty Baker. I appreciate seeing even more of innocent cheesecake compared to today’s With Apologies To Michael Chabon his work than I’ve been exposed to in Bill “Bad Girl” comics. The comparison to This “Wonder Boy” splash from the 1940s led off one of three of Black’s AC comics and books. I have Playboy or Varga pin-ups, made a few times in Alter Ego, is not quite correct. The the young hero’s Matt Baker-drawn stories in the 1986 black-&- additional information for the Matt Baker white reprint Jerry Iger’s Golden Features #2, published by Checklist. Alberto Becattini lists Jerry Playboy and Varga girls just stand there Blackthorne Publishing. [©2006 Caplin-Iger Company, Ltd.] Iger’s Famous Features #1 as containing and pose prettily, and never inspired little an “Ace of the Newsreels” reprint. The girls to pretend they lived in a ruined palace in the jungle along with editorial page in that issue says that the “Ace” story was previously their pet tigers. unpublished, as was the Baker “Wonder Boy” story that Becattini Trina Robbins doesn’t list. We stand corrected, Trina. We’ve always been a bit nervous around ladies who have their own pet tigers… but maybe that’s just us. At the risk of seeming a bit incestuous for printing a letter from yet another of #47’s contributors, here’s a communication all the way from Italy from Alberto Becattini, who wrote that issue’s lengthy study of Baker’s work, which adds something to Ware and Vadeboncoeur’s “Great Unknowns” entry. Dear Roy— You did a wonderful of job assembling and editing the whole issue, including my article. I liked Jim’s interview a lot, and was so glad to see what Matt Baker looked like—for real! I was also glad to read Jim V. and Hames’ article about Orestes Calpini. I’d like to see more pieces on animators/cartoonists in A/E. You know that’s my daily bread. By the way, I can offer some additional info on Calpini—for those who may be concerned: Orestes Calpini was born on March 17, 1911, and died in December 1974. He animated at the Fleischer studio from about 1935 until 1942, contributing to Popeye (1936-41), Gabby (1941), and Superman (1942) cartoon shorts as an animator, as well as to the 1939 Gulliver’s Travels feature as an animation director. When the Fleischer studio became the Famous/Paramount studio, Calpini stayed on staff as an animator, working until 1946 on shorts starring Superman (1943), Popeye (1943), Little Lulu (1944-45), Henry the Hen-Pecked Rooster (1945), and Herman the Mouse (1946), among others. No animation or comics credits are known after 1947 (except for inventory stories at Hillman, published in 1951), so I wouldn’t know what Calpini did during the 27

In addition, Jerry Iger’s Golden Features #2 reprints three Matt Baker “Wonder Boy” stories. The titles are “[Look out! Stand back from that window!]” – 11 pages; “The Case of the Gold-Watch Gang!” – 7 pages; and “Murder in the Police Station!” – 10 pages. And AC’s Men of Mystery Comics #52 reprints the “Mysta of the Moon” story from Planet Comics #59, “Revolt on Planet Xanthia!” Denys Howard Guess we missed those Iger and AC reprints, Denys—so thanks for reminding us. That lets our readers know where they can pick up some Golden Age Baker work without having to mortgage the mansion! John Benson—yes, the same longtime fan/collector whose 1966 comicon is being covered in Bill Schelly’s current series—had this to say about issue #47…. Hi Roy, What a super issue of A/E!! Fascinating from start to finish, from Baker to Bud! But—you can’t think of any other black comics professionals in the ’40s and ’50s? How about Cal Massey and Walter Johnson? And wasn’t A.C. Hollingsworth black? I’m sure there are others. Since you saw fit to include copy-editing deficiencies in your letters page, let me add this one: “Bakerino” may be a pseudonym, but it isn’t an acronym. An acronym is a word that’s made up on initials (or first few letters) of other words. Like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving). The photo of Baker and Archer St. John on page 47 is great. The

[comments, correspondence, & corrections]

A Flamingo Is Also A Bird There may be no gorgeous lady in this example of the daily Flamingo strip—except on a portrait in the background—but it still seems to have been at least penciled by Matt Baker, who signed it along with writer Ruth Roche. Our thanks to Jon Jensen for sending in this rare item! [©2006 Phoenix Features or its successors in interest.]

publisher at the feet of the artist! What other publisher would have posed for such a photo? John Benson I didn’t say there weren’t any other black comic book artists in the Golden Age, John—only that I wasn’t aware of who they were! As for Walter Johnson—it must be a different guy from the one Mike Esposito mentioned in A/E #53. Does anybody out there know if there were two Walter Johnsons in comics back then—one white, one African-American? Will Murray, another prominent comics historian, threw yet another name into the ring… Hi Roy: I hope I’m not the first to point out that Elmer C. Stoner, another prolific Golden Age artist, was also black. Will Murray First and only, Will. Perhaps one of these days someone will do enough research on this subject for us to run the results in Alter Ego. Reader Bruce McIntosh sent these welcome words:

celebrating their contributions to art and comics. Bruce MacIntosh You’ve definitely ferreted out what Jim and I (and P.C. and Bill and Michael and Alex and Hames and Jim V. and the rest of us) are up to, Bruce. But somehow, I can’t bring myself to think of them as a “staff.” We’re all just doing what we can, from various points of the continental compass. Prof. William H. Foster III wrote in with his own perspective: Dear Mr. Thomas: Allow me to introduce myself. I am a college professor of English and the creator of a traveling educational exhibit on “The Changing Image of Blacks in Comics.” I speak often on the topic, and have a new book coming out [in June 2005] entitled Looking for a Face like Mine. I wish to thank you so much for your recent issue of Alter Ego that spotlighted the work and life of Matt Baker. What an excellent tribute to this very deserving yet long-neglected artist! I can’t say enough about how much I appreciate what you and your magazine have added to the body of comic book scholarship. Keep up the good work! Prof. William H. Foster III

Dear Roy: Alter Ego #47 and Jim Amash’s article/interviews were especially enjoyable. I always enjoy Jim’s interviews, but this one had extra spark and enthusiasm. This may have been caused in part by the interviewees’ willingness to discuss the subject, Matt Baker, something which I suspect is not always the case. The presence of many photos of Mr. Baker and his family also helped paint a more vibrant mental picture. In another light, however, that Matt Baker article struck me as a noble endeavor. Without it, Matt Baker would be a hazy bit of trivia in my mind: the guy who drew the famous Phantom Lady “headlight” covers. (Unfortunately, that says much more about how my mind works than it does about Matt Baker’s talent or legacy.) However, now I know that he was much more than that. Despite his tragically short life and career, he has had a lasting influence on future generations of artists (whether they knew of him or not) and perhaps an impact on civil rights for black Americans. Although it is always entertaining, I wanted to tell you that I think that what you are doing with Alter Ego is also very important. You probably realize better than anyone that, if we don’t find out as much as we possibly can about these guys now, we may never again have the chance. Of course, we know all about the recent passing of such “great ones” as Julius Schwartz, Will Eisner, Kelly Freas, et al., and much is and should be written about these men and women, so that their legacy will be preserved. But it is also important to dig up and present to the public (at least to those who are interested in comics, comic artists, and cartooning) the stories of those figures who were less well-known, or who passed away many years ago. If you, Jim, and your staff ever stop digging, our chances will diminish of ever remembering these people and

We’ll try, prof. Interesting coincidence that you have the same basic name (reduceable, if one wished, to “Bill Foster”) as Dr. Henry Pym’s longtime colleague, who briefly became the hero called Black Goliath back in the 1970s. Or maybe somebody’s kidded you about that before…? Longtime fan Howard Leroy Davis signs in…. Hi, Roy— The Matt Baker article left me wanting more! Would that everyone could be a long-lived excellent communicator like Jerry Robinson…. “The Great Unknowns” series title reminded me of my two favorite unknowns. Remember Jack Farr? “Three Ring Binks” in Action Comics. Farr had an on-going series in Detective, as well, but its name escapes me. And I have a copy of Army and Navy Comics #4, which is almost all Farr. I sure would like to know more about him, but he disappeared from comics around 1950, and considering that I have an original of his from about 1927, he may have retired or died at that time. The second “unknown” on my list is Henry Valleyey. He actually did very little comic book work. He was a mainstay of Whitman’s Big Little Books. Howard Leroy Davis Hames and Jim V. say they feel Henry Valleyey is too well known to be a “Great Unknown,” Howard—we ran a Captain Midnight illo of his back in issue #22—but of course, it’s all relative. Gotta find room for more of their articles. I’ve had one sitting on the cyberspace shelf for a

re: Seduction Of The Indolent

I was there—hell, the building (in Journal Square) was condemned.”

Andreas Gottschlich sent us his own artistic comment on the 1950s anti-comics assaults by psychiatrist Fredric Wertham—based, of course, on the infamous cover of Phantom Lady #17 (April 1948). Nice work, Andreas! And if you didn’t get a contributor copy of recent issues, it might be because we’ve found it a bit difficult to read your exact handwritten address—so please advise! [Art ©2006 Andreas Gottschlich; Phantom Lady TM & ©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

Shaun Clancy Thanks for sharing Jim’s comments with us, Shaun. Perhaps we’ll learn the full story if he ever gets a chance to assemble that third and final volume of his seminal and still vital History of Comics series. Next, a brief correction from regular LP contributor Jake Oster: Roy— Alter Ego #47 states on page 8 that “For Wings Comics, in 1944, he [Matt Baker] drew ‘The Skull Squad’—telling the adventures of an RAF team formed by Jimmy Jones (an American), Sandy McGregor (a Scotsman), and Ken Atkins (an Englishman).” I believe the English member of The Skull Squad was actually named Kent Douglas. Blimey!

year now—and the lads are eager to write more, as soon as I use it! Shaun Clancy has sent us several pieces of art we’ve used in previous issues, but this time it’s words he’s supplied—the words of a Silver Age comics great named—but we’ll let him tell you that himself….

Jake Oster

Roy— Jim Steranko and I talked about Matt Baker five years ago, and he wrote to me the following: “It’s not well known, but I worked with Matt Baker and Vinnie Colletta when they shared a studio in New Jersey many years ago.” Jim said he had no time then to go into detail about the situation, but added, “I will say that Matt was an excellent draftsman and anatomist, whose work should be recognized by comics fans and collectors.” He added, in a later e-mail, that “both he [Baker] and Vinnie floored me as a kid by drawing directly with a pen (no penciling underneath)with excellent results. No one else worked [in that building] while

We’ll have to take your word for it for the present, Jake. We also got this comment, from Henry Kujawa, about Michael T. Gilbert’s “Comic Crypt” entry for issue #47: Hi, Roy— Interesting Al Williamson/Flash Gordon story. I have one issue of the 1960s comic, as well as the gorgeous two-issue mini he did with Archie Goodwin around 1991. I’ve always thought it was a waste of Williamson’s talent to ever ink someone else’s pencils—and often, a waste of his pencils when no one else would ink them. Henry Kujawa We know what you mean, Henry—though Al’s inking of Curt Swan on our contents page is exquisite! Finally, from Germany comes this missive (and accompanying artwork) from Andreas Gottschlich. Roy— Congratulations on your recent Matt Baker issue! I always appreciate it when you include the artists’ other work, outside of comic books (advertising illustration, newspaper strips, paintings, etc.), as it is often more mature in purely academic terms, even if it sometime lacks the pure excitement of comic book dynamics (Lou Fine being a perfect example of this). As you may know, kinky/bondage/girl-fight artist “Eneg” was really an African-American named Gene (=Eneg) Bilbrew. I also read somewhere that he used to be an assistant to Will Eisner. Has this ever been confirmed? It would make him another black Golden Ager besides those fabulous Baker boys! As to why people didn’t recognize the mask-less Phantom Lady’s secret identity: Maybe they weren’t looking at her face!? Andreas Gottschlich Now why didn’t we think of that, Andreas? Nearly out of room! Just time to say—keep those cards and belles lettres rolling in to: Roy Thomas e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com 32 Bluebird Trail fax: (803) 826-6501 St. Matthews, SC 29135 And remember—you’re only one month, not two, away from Alter Ego #57 and Mike Nolan’s landmark revised/updated “Timely Comics Index”—with more Golden Age illustrations than you can throw a fireball at! And we’ll have a few previously unpublished pieces for you to Marvel at, as well!

No. 115 Feb. 2006

82 The intention was to devise a situation in which Captain Marvel could be pictured wearing an unusual expression ... fear. Couldn’t be done, some said. In a way, I disagreed. He was afraid of nothing, of course ... but there was a certain emotion somewhat akin to fear ... uneasiness ... that might evoke an impression of fear. It’s hard to imagine ... perhaps recollection of the pre-teen years when you walked home alone after a Frankenstein movie ... the monster wasn’t exactly right there behind you. You were just glad he wasn’t! By

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel” (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics in 1953, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing memoirs have been a popular FCA feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. This issue he takes a look at the contents of CMA #18 ... and “The What-Not Adventure.” —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

When that was discussed with Reed, he didn’t take time for a discourse on the merits of it. His eyes just sortof lit up and he said, “Write it!” An appropriate adversary for Captain Marvel had been in mind all the while. Women! Not just any women ... or the usual ... but the members of the Society for the Preservation of Obtuse What-Nots. “The What-Not Adventure” ... not much reader appeal to that title. But, then again, once you got the reader into the CMA magazine ... with its cover and lead story ... titles weren’t all that important. And, anyway, this was a case of Captain Marvel’s emotions ... and the way he expressed them ... and as the story gets under way, Billy Batson’s seen making an impression on the president of the Society. A negative impression!

aptain Marvel Adventures #18 sported one of those rare covers by C.C. Beck rendered in continuous tone color rather than the customary line art with the color added later. Onstage the World’s Mightiest Mortal is seen with Captain Marvel Jr. presenting to the reader Fawcett’s latest comic book creation, Mary Marvel.

That was the lead story in that issue, and in it Mary Bromfield learns that her name is really Batson and that she is Billy’s twin sister ... and ... that upon uttering “Shazam!” she has the gift of super-powers. On the final page of the story, Cap, Junior, and Mary fly merrily away, and ads on that page promise more Mary Marvel in the next issue of CMA and in Wow Comics #9, December ’42. Other stories in CMA #18 were “Captain Marvel Fights a Nightmare,” “The What-Not Adventure,” and “The Three Wishes of Tim Tucker”... all featuring Captain Marvel. That was the main difference between the two major comic book magazines at Fawcett. In Whiz Comics, during his heyday, the red-clad super-hero starred in the first story every issue ... followed on the inner pages, in 1942, by Spy Smasher, Prince Ibis, and Golden Arrow. CMA, on the other hand, had Captain Marvel as leading character in four stories each issue. According to Rod Reed, executive editor of the Fawcett comics department, four stories per issue meant you could get pretty wild with some of them. Even border on the ridiculous. Plotting, that is. His remembering that was counted on when “The What-Not Adventure” was conceived.

What-Not To Where Splash of “The What-Not Adventure” from Captain Marvel Adventures #18 (Dec. 1942). As to where this off-beat tale would lead the Big Red Cheese storywise—and for possible art credits—you’ll have to read Marc’s article. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age!”

Whereas the plot is pretty much run-of-the-mill, the thug dialogue in the story is interesting. “That’s it! Let him have it!” shouts one, as his partner fires a revolver at Captain Marvel. “I am!” replies the other. “But he keeps coming!” On a later page, after the evil Brutus Drival has just clobbered Billy into a “Shazam” situation, Captain Marvel taps Brutus on the shoulder from behind. “Er ... pardon me!” he says. “Would you mind doing that again?” The artwork on that story obviously came from the shop Beck had been assembling ... and it was excellent. And little drawing board laughs indicated they had fun doing it. Like on page 42, in panel 3, where in order for the dialogue balloon tips to reach the intended speakers, they go behind other balloons! Also, on that same page is a scene where Captain Marvel delivers an uppercut that sends Drival up out of sight beyond the upper border of the panel. In the next panel the action is continued with Drival crashing through the skylight on the roof. A classic Golden Age comic book panel occurs on page 40, where Professor Totter gracefully rings the doorbell as he hums to himself, “Hope Mrs. Thorntree won’t be angry ... but I simply had to finish my new Spy Smasher book!”

Where’s The Courage of Achilles When You Really Need It? Captain Marvel may not exactly “show fear” in this scene from “The What-Not Adventure”—but he sure comes mighty close! For once, as Marc relates, the World’s Mightiest Mortal found himself “shouting ‘Shazam!’ so Billy Batson could come to his rescue!” [©2006 DC Comics.]

Did Captain Marvel show fear in the “What-Not” story? More than that! He was seen clomping down a hallway at full speed, one foot stuck in a wash bucket, ending up at a dead end and shouting “Shazam!” so Billy Batson could come to his rescue!

[Marc Swayze will be back next issue with more memories of the Golden Age of Comics.]

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Hollywoodchuck – Part II Batman Begins Co-Producer MICHAEL USLAN On Being a Filmmaker— & A Junior Woodchuck by P.C. Hamerlinck

NTRODUCTION: Part I of this article, in A/E #54, dealt with Michael E. Uslan’s youthful discovery of comic books in New Jersey, his experience with friend Bob Klein on the fabled “DC tours” in the early 1960s (including pleasant run-ins with future Shazam! editor Julius Schwartz), and with his attendance of the 1965 David Kaler comicon in Manhattan. It also recorded his visits to the home of Golden Age “Captain Marvel” scribe Otto Binder in Englewood, NJ. While attending Indiana University, he persuaded the folklore department to let him initiate an accredited course on comic books. By a skillful use of publicity, he parlayed this into first obtaining considerable cooperation from Marvel editor/writer Stan Lee—and was soon called by DC vice president Sol Harrison, who was eager to fly Uslan to New York and “talk about ways you might be able to work with us.” Ere long, Uslan found himself in the DC offices of Sol and editorial director Carmine Infantino. “As a longtime fan,” he said, “it was an incredible feeling….”

The Junior Woodchucks Sol Harrison was a key figure in Uslan’s life. He mentored the younger man into the business, paving the way towards Uslan’s life dream one day coming true: to produce a dark, serious version of “Batman.” Harrison had three programs he felt Uslan could help them with. The projects became a part of Uslan’s duties during his early involvement with DC Comics.

One was a program to get comic books distributed via college bookstores, as DC found their market was growing older and older each year. The second was the development of a series of educational comics to teach learning-disabled children to read and to teach English as a second language, utilizing the services of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. DC worked with a team of researchers from the Graduate School of Education of Harvard. DC asked Uslan to work on the program with the goal of selling it to the New York City Board of Education, which was ultimately achieved. The third program was Harrison’s experiment involving a new way to distribute comics called “The Comic Mobile”—selling comic books à la an ice cream truck selling its treats up and down neighborhood streets. “I tried to make use of every second while I was there,” Uslan said. He was inducted into a new group within the company. Since the term “interns” didn’t exist at that time for comics workers, the group was named “The Junior Woodchucks.” Members included Paul Levitz (who arrived at DC several months before Uslan), Guy Lillian, Carl Gafford, Allan Asherman, Jack Harris, Anthony Tollin, Steve Mitchell, and later Bob Rozakis, who replaced Uslan when he went back to school in Indiana. One of the Junior Woodchucks’ many duties was to produce the scholarly fanzine The Amazing World of DC Comics. “DC saw us as the first generation of real fanboys who had futures in the business in various capacities,” Uslan said, “and we were being developed in that way.”

Woodchuckin’ It Michael Uslan (above right) with FCA editor P.C. Hamerlinck—flanked by the covers of two of the nearly 20 issues of Amazing World of DC Comics. That inhouse DC fanzine was put together by Michael Uslan and the other “Junior Woodchucks” between 1974 and 1978. #2 & #17 featured Captain Marvel and other Fawcett-derived heroes on the covers… and #17 (it says “#16” in the indicia) was a mostly-Shazam! issue. Art by Kurt Schaffenberger and Alan Weiss, respectively. [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]

Hollywoodchuck –– Part II

85 Uslan tried to dig up something quick. “Uh ... it’s about ... smuggling ... from Canada to the United States,” Uslan exclaimed.

In addition to Woodchucking, Uslan made time to become friendly with many of the DC staff. One in particular was Gerda Gattel. “She was one of the nicest ladies I’ve ever met in my life,” Uslan recalled. “I would talk to her about the old days at DC. At the time she was in charge of DC’s library. She knew how interested I was in comic book history. Most days around lunchtime Gerda would let me go into the library, and she would pull down volumes of books for me. Ultimately, over my summers with DC, I wound up reading every comic book they had ever published. I also had a chance to talk to Ira Schnapp, who had designed virtually every DC logo. He had refined Joe Shuster’s logo for ‘Superman.’ Amazing people ... it was a phenomenal time to be there.”

“Smuggling what?” O’Neil asked. “Uh ... uh ... drugs ... smuggling drugs!” Uslan said. “Well, what’s the catch? How do they do it?” “Well, you know how in the ’30s and ’40s people were going over the Falls in barrels ... well, the smugglers would go over the Falls with false bottoms on their barrels and they would wash over to the Canadian side from the American side ... that’s how they're doing it.”

O’Neil was satisfied with the scenario: “Great—can you have the story on my desk by 6 o’clock tomorrow?” Uslan told him no problem, and started writing the script on the train back to Jersey. A full pot of coffee was made as he put in an allnighter ... and was still writing on the train back to the city the next morning. Splash of Mike Uslan's first pro script—The Shadow #9 Uslan “cut a deal” with one of the secre(Feb.-March 1975). Art by Frank Robbins & Frank McLaughlin. Each Woodchuck was assigned to Thanks to Mike. [∫©2006 DC Comics.] taries and continually fed her pages to assist a different DC editor: Bob Rozakis type, and by 6 p.m. that day a “Shadow” was with Julie Schwartz; Paul Levitz with Joe Orlando; Jack Harris with script was on O’Neil’s desk. Uslan overnight had become a comic book Murray Boltinoff; Alan Asherman, Levitz, and writer. Uslan with Denny O’Neil. “I was there summers A few weeks later, walking down a DC hallway, through 1974, and then I started writing for DC,” he was approached by Julie Schwartz: “Hey, kid, I Uslan said, “so when I went back to school in read your ‘Shadow’ script.” Indiana I would send in my scripts through the The Junior Woodchucks were more than just a working group; everyone socialized and hung out together on weekends. “Allan Asherman would show up with his 16 mm film collection of old science-fiction movies,” Uslan said. “We’d have BBQs and swim parties. There was real camaraderie amongst us.”

mail, working closely with O’Neil, Asherman, and Rozakis. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. The Woodchucks knew everything that was going on behind-the-scenes at DC in those days.” How did Uslan transform from Junior Woodchuck to Writer? It was around 6 p.m. one evening when he heard screams of anguish coming from O’Neil’s office. Carmine Infantino had cancelled The Shadow comic. Then revised sales figures came back showing a spike in sales for the book. Suddenly, The Shadow was uncancelled, but weeks behind schedule. “Denny was going crazy,” Uslan recalls. “He was under deadline pressure ... he was writing ... he was editing ... and he needed a Shadow script immediately.” Uslan heard opportunity knocking as he stood in O’Neil’s office. “Denny, I have an idea for a ‘Shadow’ story,” Uslan said. Actually, he didn’t, but knew he had to seize the moment. Uslan and his wife had just returned from a vacation up in Niagara Falls. With that in mind, he described to O’Neil a visual: set in the ’30s, a time when it was in vogue for the ambitious to walk across the Falls on wires, The Shadow is seen balancing on top of a wire fighting a guy over the Falls. O’Neil loved it: “That’s a great visual. OK, what’s the story?”

“You did?” Uslan asked. Then, as only Julie Schwartz could express it: “Yeah. Didn’t stink.” Then Schwartz asked Uslan if he wanted to take a crack at ‘Batman.’ “I had to head back to school,” Uslan said, “so, in collaboration with Bob Rozakis—who was working with Julie at the time—we developed an idea I had into a 3-part ‘Batman’ story that I co-wrote. It was a dream come true.”

“The Closet”

Guilty Pleasures? This Dave Manak illustration of Superman and Captain Marvel accompanied Michael Uslan’s article “When Titans Clash… in Court.” From Amazing World of DC Comics #17 (16?) (April 1978). [©2006 DC Comics.]

During Woodchucking at DC, one of the tasks Sol Harrison asked Uslan to do was to clean out “the closet.” Uslan compares “the closet” to something like the last scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. Located between the offices of Carmine Infantino and DC advisor/original EC publisher Bill Gaines, the closet, according to Uslan, “looked as if a tornado had hit it, with stuff just pouring out of it. It took me weeks to go through it.” Uslan uncovered a huge treasure trove ... a virtual museum of DC Comics history: “Everything was in there. I found George Reeves’ Superman costume ... I found Adam

Michael Uslan On Being A Filmmaker & A Junior Woodchuck

West’s Batman costume ... I found the scrapbooks put together by attorney Louis Nizer and company during the Superman/Captain Marvel lawsuit, showing incidents where Captain Marvel had imitated Superman ... I found the DC ashcan editions ... I found the actual corporate records and papers of the company from the days of Major Wheeler-Nicholson.” With his craving for comics history, Uslan asked Harrison if he could take notes on all his miraculous findings from the closet. Harrison said: “No problem ... it’s all old stuff anyway.” So Uslan took notes … lots of notes. He was in paradise: “I found out how much [Harry] Donenfeld got the company for ... and when… and who the receiver was that was appointed and how it affected the books ... I found the sales figures for the first 20 or so issues of Action Comics ... I found documentation proving that Superman #1 was intended as a one-shot until they started to get the sales figures back and that the first issue actually went into a second printing ... and that Superman #2 was the first comic book ever to have a million copies printed ... I found all the cease-and-desist letters dating back to 1940, including Fawcett’s ‘Master Man’ from Master Comics, as well as another publisher’s character called ‘Super Woman’ that they put a stop to.” One cease-and-desist letter prompted Uslan to phone Joe Simon: “I remember calling Joe and asking him why The Double Life of Private Strong only lasted two issues. Simon said it was because of poor sales. I said, ‘Wait a minute, Joe. Back then, how many issues did it take before you got your sales figures?’ ‘3 or 4,’ he said. ‘So why did they cancel it with #2? I’ll tell you why, Joe. Because I read the cease-and-desist letter from DC Comics to John Goldwater, saying that the new version of The Shield looked like and had the super-powers of Superman and it was copyright infringement and if it didn’t cease and desist immediately they were going to come after them.’” Simon later included that piece of information in his book The Comic Book Makers. Uslan also dug up in “the closet” rare Siegel and Shuster material ... and learned that a Max Fleischer Batman cartoon series was planned in the early 1940s: “They were going to do it,” Uslan said. “I have a copy of the budget for it. Then the war hit, supplies were short, and people were being drafted, so it was shelved.” Many of the discoveries Uslan

had been privy to became incorporated into introductions he has written for DC’s Archive editions, putting the information in print for posterity.

Pow-Zap-Wham Uslan worked full-time at DC during the summers, and by the fall would return to school in Bloomington, Indiana. DC had him on a retainer for a while in Indiana, where he wrote various comic scripts: Unexpected ... House of Mystery ... Weird War ... whatever was thrown his way. One series he was working on, “Tales of Earth-2,” intended as a back-up feature for Adventure Comics, was a victim of the “DC Implosion” of 1978. “At the time they killed it, I had written ‘HourMan,’ ‘Mr. Terrific,’ and ‘Congorilla,’” he said. “I was trying to use the lesser-known characters.” He continued writing for DC until he graduated from law school and went to work at United Artists. Around that time, he began writing books. He had previously written the world’s first textbook about comics: The Comic Book in America, published by Indiana U., followed by The Comic Book Revolution, which focused on the usage of comic books in education. His first book with a major publisher, William Morrow, was submitted as The Comic Book Trivia Book but was published as The Pow-Zap-Wham Comic Quiz Book, featuring 1001 questions and answers. Bob Layton designed the cover. “While I was in Indiana, we had our little ‘Hoosier Mafia,’ Uslan said, ‘guys who were comics book freaks...Bob Layton, Roger Stern, Roger Slifer, John Byrne, and Duffy Vohland. Layton published a fanzine called C.P.L. and we became known as the C.P.L. Gang. We worked on Charlton Bullseye, which gave me one of the best experiences I ever had writing a comic book. I got to revive Steve Ditko’s ‘The Question’ and worked with one of my idols, Alex Toth. In CB #5 we did an original story which is really the only story that bridged the original Ditko Charlton material with all the stuff that came later from other publishers. I believe that story will finally see print in one of DC’s next Action Heroes Archives.”

The Secret Origin of Little Archie When it comes to comic book history, one of Uslan’s pet peeves is erroneous facts that sometimes appear in comic-devoted publications. “A lot of errors are made, and they tend to get regurgitated by fan writers who re-use the same incorrect sources over and over until they become accepted as fact,” Uslan said. “I think it’s important that those inaccuracies are filtered out. The golf game story [which I wrote about in A/E #43] confirmed this to me.” Another factual story Uslan learned about involved a poker game attended by Sol Harrison, John Goldwater, and various publishers, including one who began teasing Goldwater: “We publish Westerns, super-heroes, war, humor, and romance comics. All you publish is Archie: Archie’s Girls… Archie’s Pals… Big Archie… Little Archie… Fat Archie….” They continued to rip into him. Finally, Goldwater said, “All right, you think you’re making fun of me? You said ‘Little Archie’ ... I’ll take ‘Little Archie’ and make it into a huge hit! I’ll go publish Little Archie!’ So Little Archie originated from Goldwater’s reaction to being teased at a poker game.

Passing The Collection Plate Uslan edited two early collections of DC Comics material for Simon & Schuster’s Fireside Books imprint in 1979 & 1980, respectively: America at War (war stories, what else?) and Mysteries in Space (science-fiction). Cover art by Joe Kubert & Murphy Anderson. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“There’ve been subsequent comments made over the years that the incident couldn’t have really happened,” Uslan said, “because the production manager of DC wouldn’t have been playing poker with publishers ... but Harrison was indeed there ... and then the question comes up why Harrison, who was production manager at that time, would be playing poker with John Goldwater. The

Hollywoodchuck –– Part II

they could do a Batman movie with him, “but it’s got to be the funny, pot-bellied guy with the pow-zaps-and-whams, because that’s all audiences will remember and love.” Uslan told himself there was no way anyone was going to touch the character unless it was done in the way it was originally created in 1939, as a creature of the night stalking criminals in the shadows. “That’s the primary reason it took ten years to get the first Batman film made after we acquired the rights,” Uslan said.

answer is because it was actually a Comics Code group game, and Sol was the most active guy on the Comics Code from DC Comics, and Goldwater was the president of the Code. Those were the circumstances surrounding, as told to me on separate occasions by both Sol and John. “I think people like Joe Simon and Jerry Robinson need to be interviewed in depth ... people who were around in the beginning who should have their entire stories clearly documented. I remember talking to Will Eisner on a number of occasions about the creation of ‘Blackhawk,’ which has become muddied in the ensuing years. That’s a story I’d love to see set straight in the near future, with Will given proper credit. There are people who have done an extraordinary job in tracking down as many of the key Golden and Silver Age creators as possible, and bringing the history out and presenting it in a forum where it can be corrected if need be. It’s really important to get it right and to preserve it.”

Hoosierwood

Upon finishing law school at Indiana University, Uslan went to work at United Artists in New York City as motion picture production attorney, working on Raging Bull, The Black Stallion, the early Rocky films, and Apocalypse Now. He learned the ropes of the film industry at UA, obtaining the knowledge and skills he would later use as a producer. The four-year experience also put him in contact with Ben Melniker, who had been executive vice president of MGM Studios for over 30 years and who became Uslan’s mentor and business partner when they acquired the movie rights to ‘Batman’ in 1979.

Hollywoodchuck

Affirming the fact of just how Hollywood did not get it and what their perception was of comic books came by way of Uslan’s rejection from Columbia Pictures. Uslan remembers his meeting at the studio: “This very dapper, silverhaired gentleman said to me, ‘Michael, you’re crazy. Batman will never work as a movie because our movie Annie didn’t do well.” I looked at him and said, “Wait a minute ... are you talking about the little red-headed girl who sings ‘Tomorrow’? What does that have to do with Batman?” The silver-haired gentleman shook his head and said at the meeting’s conclusion, ‘C’mon, Michael, they’re both out of the funny pages!”

Climate Change Uslan revels in the fact that he’d been called “out of his mind” so often over the years. Comic books now have Hollywood’s attention: “What’s happened now is that over the years a different generation has come into power in Hollywood, and when I say power I don’t simply mean on the executive level, I mean on the talent level as well, including writers, directors, and stars ... people who have grown up with comics, who are not afraid of comics, who don’t look down on comics, who read them in high school, college, or later, and don’t simply have in their minds that comic books were something you stop doing when you reach puberty. These were people who knew the names Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and appreciated their work. And that is part of what has changed in the environment.”

There’s been an attitude adjustment in Hollywood towards comic book properties, but the change wasn’t made overnight. For the first 10+ years of his producing career, Uslan was continually told he was “crazy” and “out of his mind.” When he first began to pitch a serious, dark version of Batman, every single studio in Hollywood turned him down. The first common rejection was that no one had ever made a movie based on an old TV series. “The only thing they could absorb was that Batman had been this very campy, popular TV show,” Uslan explained, “and trying to get them to understand about the impact of the comic books was a difficult chore, as many of the executives in the late ’70s through the ’80s were a different generation, who generally looked down their nose at comic books and considered them nothing more than junk entertainment for kids.”

If Ever A Whiz There Was…

The second rejection Uslan got was not so much a rejection but a mentality that couldn’t comprehend doing a serious approach to a comic book-based movie. Those were the people who told Uslan that

Sometime stuntman Tom Tyler made a great World’s Mightiest Mortal in the 1941 Republic movie serial The Adventures of Captain Marvel—but Michael Uslan means to bring a big-budget (and more faithful) adaptation to the big screen. [©2006 the respective copyright holders; Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

The second big change—a battle which Uslan has fought for over 20 years, and has only just recently won—was to convince studios that comic books are not just a genre that will be hot today and cold tomorrow. Instead, studios have come to the realization that comic books are indeed our modern mythology, and an ongoing source of great characters and stories, just as plays and novels are. The comic medium has always contained stories of good versus evil—a universal appeal to the heart, soul, and imagination. But there’s been an additional component to Uslan’s battles with movie studios’ mentality towards comic books. “We’ve been bringing them around to accept the concept that comic books are not

Michael Uslan On Being A Filmmaker & A Junior Woodchuck

synonymous with superheroes,” Uslan stated, “that whatever genre picture they’re looking for, either for talent or because they think it’s commercial or marketable today, we can deliver comic book properties that reflect that: Western, war, horror, science-fiction, fantasy, humor, romance. It doesn’t matter what the genre is. I think there have been breakthroughs recently with films like Constantine, Road to Perdition, Sin City, and A If The Spirit could respond like History of Violence. Also, this to the mere detection of a for a comic book movie to sponsor of his comic strip, we succeed, you don’t always wonder how he’d have reacted need a 50-year-old to the movie execs who kept locomotive property known trying to talk Michael Uslan into worldwide by multiple putting him in a super-hero generations. Hollywood costume! From The Spirit finally grasps the fact that Section for April 25, 1948, as reprinted in Will Eisner’s Spirit not only are comic book Archives, Vol. 16. Even though movies not necessarily the Will himself is no longer among same thing as super-hero us, we hope and trust DC will movies, but also, if they complete its landmark have great characters and preservation of his classic Spirit great stories, they can be a stories in hardcover form. successful movie and build a [©2006 Estate of Will Eisner.] successful franchise. The lesson I think has been absorbed, and these things are part of what adds up to the changed climate now in Hollywood.” So are we currently experiencing a Golden Age of comic book movies? “Absolutely,” Uslan agreed, “and I think Batman Begins has elevated it to a new plateau. The first Batman movie was revolutionary, and it really broke down the walls. It made studios understand that you could do a serious, dark approach. Tim Burton and Anton Furst’s vision opened up the gates for others to come in. I think X-Men and SpiderMan were essential to us coming to this point, and I’m thrilled with our prospects ahead, especially now with us having Will Eisner’s The Spirit.” The Spirit, like Batman, was a struggle Uslan experienced for many years, one where he wouldn’t let anybody touch the project unless they were prepared to do it the right way. Before mentalities began to change, Uslan remembers when he first started pitching a Spirit movie: “I’d always hear the same comments I’d come to expect: ‘Well, how do we get him out of the suit and tie and into spandex? … What do you mean, he really doesn’t have super-powers? Can we make him actually die and then come back with powers?’ We endured this for years until finally we said, ‘All right, nobody’s touching this baby until the climate changes, until we find somebody who gets it.’ Now the climate has changed and we have people who do get it and now we’ll be able to execute Will Eisner’s The Spirit the way it is supposed to be.” Uslan’s production team for The Spirit includes Deborah Del Prete, Gigi Pritzker, Steve Maier, Linda McDonough, F.J. DeSanto, and Ben Melniker. Jeph Loeb is writing the screenplay. Uslan gives praise to four fellow protagonists from the comic book industry—Paul Levitz, Stan Lee, Avi Arad, and Mike Richardson—who have also pushed on the Hollywood corporate side to create an environment that is more receptive to comics and more amenable to

joint input with those who truly know the characters and want them done the right way. “I think those four guys have done a tremendous amount behind-the-scenes to get us all to this point,” Uslan said, “and they deserve a ton of credit.”

For Where Your Treasure Is, There Your Heart Will Be, Also Batman Begins is what Uslan had actually always envisioned the second Batfilm to be, and after years of struggles he feels it was worth the wait: “When we saw the final cut of Batman Begins, I turned to my wife and kids and said, ‘I can retire now!’ Because, between the first Batman movie and Batman Begins, I feel I have accomplished all of the career goals that I set out to do.” But Uslan won’t be hanging up his cape anytime soon. There are more opportunities to work with great people, and to work on projects that he’s passionate about. He feels very fortunate to be in a position at this point in his career to now proceed on these things: “A number of the properties that were so important and meaningful to me when I was growing up are now in my hands ... Will Eisner’s Spirit… Shazam!… and others I really care about. How could I not be happy? I’m in a job that I love. I’ve taken my life’s passion and turned it into my work. Every rainy Monday morning I wake up and say, ‘I can’t wait to get to work!’ ... and most days I get to be 16 again, no matter how gray I’m getting, and that’s just a wonderful thing to have. With the movie studios over the years, you win 50% of your battles, you lose 50% of your battles ... it’s a struggle and a long journey ... but the journey is really what it’s all about, not just simply the end result. I personally feel secure that I fought the good fight for the projects I have been involved in. I certainly didn’t always win, but in the cases where I won it was worth everything.” [Michael Uslan is currently in the process of producing a Shazam! film, as well as other properties.]

SPECIAL BRAZILIAN BONUS! Two additional pages from the 1964 Almanaque do O Globo Juvenil. As we’ve mentioned before, Brazil’s comics continued Cap’s adventures for years after Fawcett stopped producing comics in 1953. And, in this unique story, the World’s Mightiest Mortal met Timely/Marvel’s original Human Torch, whose tales the same company had also printed at one time. Last issue, Cap made it to the hideout of the villainous Cobra, beneath the ocean floor…. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch” (Continued)

On this page, Captain Marvel finds The Human Torch a helpless, bearded captive—and recognizes him. (Billy Batson called him a “good friend who disappeared years ago”—although the two had never before encountered each other in any story published anywhere!) Thanks to John G. Pierce for unearthing this tale. It has been translated from the Portuguese and relettered by Mark Luebker. The 1964 art is by Rodriguez Zelis, with modern-day art restoration and grey tones by Matt Moring. With special thanks to Rodrigo M. Zeidan and Matt Gore. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Human Torch TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

90 “Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch”

[See more pages of this offbeat Brazilian classic in future issues of A/E & FCA.]