Alter Ego #83 Preview by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ Savage Comics Fanzine

SWORD-ANDSORCERY IN THE COMICS PART TWO

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No. 83

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January 2009

Vol. 3, No. 83 / January 2009 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Circulation Director

Contents Writer/Editorial: Of Thieves, Reavers, And Slayers . . . . . . . . . 2 The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Bob Brodsky, Cookiesoup Productions

Tom Lammers on the Lee-Maneely creation—with a sidebar on a plethora of Black Knights!

Cover Artist

Wally Wood, that is—crafter of early Marvel sword-and-sorcery sagas—by Richard J. Arndt.

Arthur Suydam

With Special Thanks to: Terry & Kay Allen Heidi Amash Richard J. Arndt Rodrigo Baeza Jean Bails Alex Bialy Dominic Bongo Frank Brunner Rich Buckler Joe Carroll Lynda Fox Cohen Teresa R. Davidson Tony DeZuniga Eda Lisa Edwards Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ron Frantz Janet Gilbert Andreas Gottschlich Bob Greenberger Lawrence Guidry George Hagenauer Jennifer Hamerlinck David Hamilton Jack C. Harris Heritage Comics Archives Roger Holda Rafael Kayanan Jim Korkis Alan Kupperberg

Thomas G. Lammers Dominique Leonard Mark Lewis Jim Ludwig Glenn MacKay Dennis Mallonee Todd McFarlane Brian K. Morris Will Murray Barry Pearl Joe Petrilak Rubén Procopio Ken Quattro Gene Reed Charlie Roberts Bob Rozakis Anthony Snyder Ronn Sutton Arthur Suydam Mark Swayze Dan Tandarich Carl Taylor Dann Thomas Michael Tiefenbacher Dr. Michael J. Vassallo John Wells Barry Windsor-Smith Joseph Wise Alex Wright Bernie Wrightson

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Jerry Serpe & Dave Stevens

A Sword of WOOD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Conan Before The Bronze Age . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 Will Murray relates how Robert E. Howard’s Road of Kings led straight to Marvel Comics.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]… Than Spider-Man!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 Roy Thomas talks—yes, again—about REH’s Hyborian hero... to Jim Amash, this time.

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”. . . . . . . . 38 And they won’t be—if MLJ/Archie artist Joe Edwards has anything to say about it. (Part II)

“We Should Form A Club Or Society…” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Chapter 6 in Bob Rozakis’ Earth-22 “Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.”

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! Are They Kidding? . . . . . . . . . . 63 Michael T. Gilbert and some of the nuttiest things comics creators ever tried to get away with!

Comic Fandom Archive: Found! “New” Photos From The 1965 New York Comicon! (Part 2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 Bill Schelly presents more recently-discovered vintage pics from the Jerry Bails collection.

Tributes To Jerry Serpe & Dave Stevens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 re: [comments, corrections, & correspondence] . . . . . . . . . 76 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #142 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .79 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze & Ron Frantz’s memories of Jerry De Fuccio. On Our Cover: This stunning painting by Arthur Suydam—who caused a sensation last year with his powerful covers for Marvel Zombies—portrays a barbarian upon a usurped throne. But is it Conan—or Kull—or another hero of sword-and-sorcery fiction? It matters not. Thanks to Arthur for allowing us to use this art—previously seen only on a poster done a couple of years ago for the DragonCon in Atlanta, Georgia—as our cover! See the whole illo on p. 35. [©2009 Arthur Suydam.] Above: With Barry Windsor-Smith putting so much work into early Conan comics, Roy T. gladly purchased rights to various sketches he had done to give Barry extra income—and Marvel more work by Barry! Savage Tales #2 (1973), with “Red Nails” up front, utilized the above pencil drawing as the heading for an article—whether or not Barry originally intended it to specifically represent the Cimmerian swashbuckler. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $88 US, $140 Canada, $210 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

Of Thieves, Reavers, And Slayers S

eems like only yesterday—and not nearly half a year ago, which it actually is—that we were prepping the first of our several “Swordand-Sorcery in the Comics” issues, for Alter Ego #80. (That eldritch edition is still available from TwoMorrows—see ad bloc on pp. 89 ff.—hint, hint!)

This time, we examine the phenomenon which, we must admit, we immodestly consider the epicenter of the s&s comic book earthquake of the 1970s—namely, Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, as launched by Yours Truly as scripter (and de facto editor) and Barry Windsor-Smith as artist extraordinaire. Even before Conan, though, Marvel had flirted with that genre—as witness the short-lived but legendary Black Knight series by Stan Lee and Joe Maneely in the mid-1950s, and several stories written and drawn by Wally Wood right before the Cimmerian first unsheathed his four-color broadsword. (At the last minute, sadly, we had to delay Richard Arndt’s study of Charlton’s proto-s&s comic Hercules until our third special foray.)

RI, back to Chicago, without missing a beat…while Dann and I journeyed first to Missouri to visit my mother (and to attend my [gulp!] 50th-year high school class reunion), then to New York for a Big Apple comicon. Now, we’re all settled in again… and ready to start on A/E #84 and to get back to work on The All-Star Companion, Vol. 4 (and final!), due out this summer. Who was it said “No rest for the wicked”? Probably Dorothy Gale. Bestest,

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

Sure, we could cram our entire sword-and-sorcery history into just a couple of issues, but that would rob you—and me—of the pleasure of Alter Ego’s regularly scheduled contributions by the likes of Michael T. Gilbert, Bill Schelly, P.C. Hamerlinck, and Bob Rozakis—not to mention Jim Amash, who this time around completes his in-depth interview with MLJ/Archie artist Joe Edwards. And we were bound and determined not to miss a second letters section in a row! Of course, there’ve been a few behind-the-scenes dramas, as well… for life goes on, and not just in bordered panels or in musty old comics. Between A/E #82 & #83, layout guru Chris Day moved from Providence,

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81, Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

COMING IN MARCH

STEVE SKEATES On Thin Ice! How The Writer of AQUAMAN, HAWK & DOVE, Et Al., Took The Silver Age Plunge! • Previously unseen Aquaman cover by JIM APARO! • STEVE SKEATES on his comics scripting from 1965 through the early ’70s, for DC, Marvel, Charlton, & Warren—from Aquaman to Sub-Mariner to Plop! (The late ’70s onward will be covered in Back Issue #33, a couple of weeks later!) • Skeates-related arts & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD—& the great WARREN SPAVIN! • TV writer CHARLES SINCLAIR talks about Batman co-creator BILL FINGER— and JIM AMASH listens! (And so will you!) • Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, & JERRY DE FUCCIO, Part II— MICHAEL T. GILBERT on “Twice-Told EC”—BILL SCHELLY’s Comic Fandom Archive—BOB ROZAKIS’ “Secret History Of All-American Comics”—& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS Comics, [Aquaman TM & ©2009 DC

Inc.]

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The Swords And The Sorcerers

part one

[continued from Alter Ego #80]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer Second In The Author’s “Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series” by Thomas G. Lammers While hardly pure “sword-and-sorcery,” Marvel’s five 1955-56 issues of Black Knight were the nearest thing to it published by Timely Comics before the tail-end of the 1960s and Conan the Barbarian in 1970. There is no true wizardry in the series except that of Merlin the Magician, which consists primarily of a far-seeing crystal ball and the ability to ensorcel a sword into the enchanted Black Blade. Morgan le Fey, who is a witch in the original Arthurian legends, appears in the series but performs no magic. Still, this is the closest that Stan Lee, major architect of the Marvel Universe, came to writing the genre developed by Robert E. Howard, whose roots go back, of course, to an earlier tradition on which, in part, REH drew. —RT.

he age of knighthood long has been a favorite setting in Western literature, and the best known character in such stories is the legendary King Arthur. The earliest accounts of his life are found in the 9th-century Historia Brittonum and the 10th-century Annales Cambriae, where he is described as a Romano-British chieftain killed during the Battle of Camlann in 537. Most of the familiar elements of Arthurian legend—Camelot, the Knights of the Round Table, Merlin the Magician, Queen Guinevere—come not from these sketchy historical accounts but from subsequent romanticized sources, beginning with the 12th-century Historia Regum Britanniae by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Arthurian legend has been portrayed in virtually every medium, from scholarly treatises to Hollywood blockbusters to video games. It is not surprising that Timely/Atlas/Marvel publisher Martin Goodman got in on the action as well, placing The Black Knight on the nation’s newsstands in early 1955. This was his first and only entry in the knights-in-shiningarmor genre, if one overlooks the 34-page cover story “Richard the LionHearted” (job #4358) in Ideal Comics #4 (Jan. 1949). Goodman is best remembered as a trend-chaser, not an innovator. Whenever he brought out a new title, it was almost always in response to his perception of what was “hot” for other publishers. However, comic books set in the days of chivalry were rather scarce in the early 1950s. Toby Comics had produced their own The Black Knight in 1953, but it lasted only a single issue. EC’s Valor had debuted two months before Goodman’s new title. However, these “New Direction” titles were widely perceived as an act of desperation by publisher Bill Gaines, necessitated by the dictates of the new Comics Code Authority. As such, it seems unlikely that Goodman was influenced to any great degree by the appearance of this title, either. No other publishers had comic-book titles in this genre. What then was the impetus for The Black Knight? Looking at other popular media of the day, it seems most likely that Black Knight had a cinematic raison d’etre. The year 1954 saw a spate of costume dramas set during the Age of Chivalry. The first of these (released on January 15) was Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer’s Knights of the Round Table, which starred Robert Taylor and Ava Gardner, with a script based on Sir Thomas Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur (1485). This was followed on April 5 by Prince Valiant, starring Robert Wagner and Janet Leigh in a 20th Century-Fox adaptation of the popular Hal Foster

newspaper strip—which featured James Mason as a villainous, secretidentitied Black Knight. On August 7, Warner Bros. released King Richard and the Crusaders starring Rex Harrison and Virginia Mayo, while Universal Pictures’ The Black Shield of Falworth, starring Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh, debuted on September 2. The red griffin in flight on Curtis’ black shield does bear considerable resemblance to the red eagle in flight on the Black Knight’s. It was the last of the 1954 releases that may have been particularly influential in Goodman’s decision: Columbia Pictures’ The Black Knight, [Continued on p. 6]

“The Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

Black Knights ’Round The Table The images on this and the opposite page illustrate the precursors, competitors, and latter-day equivalents of the Atlas hero. “Black Knight” has long been a popular name, indeed—and we’re sure we didn’t catch nearly all of them. (Clockwise from top left:) (Below:) More Fun Comics #73 (Nov. 1941). In the same month the Classic Comics rendition debuted, a villainous modern-day Black Knight strikes— but with newsreel photog Johnny Chambers in the picture, can the superfast Johnny Quick be far behind? Script credited to Mort Weisinger, pencils to Ed Moore, inks to Chad Grothkopf. Thanks to John Wells for the scan. The whole issue was reprinted in one of DC’s Millennium Editions—and John adds that several 1936 issues of More Fun featured the Richard/BK version in a serialized adaptation of Ivanhoe. [©2009 DC Comics.]

(Above:) Classic Comics #2 (Nov. 1941) - Ivanhoe. Ed Ashe of the Lloyd Jacquet/Funnies, Inc. shop is generally credited with drawing Gilberton’s first adaptation of Sir Walter Scott’s 1820 novel. However, as per William B. Jones, Jr.’s, excellent study Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations, comics historian Hames Ware “confirmed that Ashe was responsible for a relatively small number of panels,” with fellow shop-artist Ray Ramsey doing much of the work. Back in England, of course, the Knight will reveal himself to be King Richard the Lion-Hearted, home from the Crusades. [©2009 First Classics, Inc., by permission of Jack Lake Productions, Inc.]

Rip Hunter… Time Master #16 (Sept-Oct. 1963). This Black Knight was one of “The Criminal League of Time” in a full-lengther written by Jack Miller and illustrated by Bill Ely. Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Superboy #103 (March 1963). Edmond Hamilton wrote, Curt Swan penciled, and George Klein inked this three-parter. Oh, and this Black Knight turned out to be Merlin the Magician! Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Superman #124 (Sept. 1958). This “Black Knight,” supposedly brought back to life after 1000 years, turned out to be Daily Planet editor Perry White, disguised by the Man of Steel to trick a felon. Art by Al Plastino; scripter uncertain. Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer (Left:) Ernie Schroeder’s cover for Toby Press’ The Black Knight #1 (1953). There was no sorcery in this one-shot comic about a knight returning home from the Crusades to find evil raging in his own land, as related in John Wells’ keystone article for this series in Alter Ego #80. As seen in the lead splash printed three issues back, the only “sorcerer” in sight was a druid who exploited peasant superstitions. The Toby mag’s logo closely foreshadows that of the Marvel/Atlas title. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Above:) Four Color #567 (June 1954). This comic probably went on sale circa April, and adapted the 20th Century-Fox film Prince Valiant released that month, based on Harold R. Foster’s long-running Sunday comic strip. The movie starred Robert Wagner as Val, Janet Leigh as Aleta, and James Mason as Sir Brack, alias the evil Black Knight. The Dell/Western mag was scripted by Paul S. Newman and illustrated by Bob Fujitani. Thanks to Jim Ludwig & Gene Reed. [©2009 the respective copyright holders; Prince Valiant TM & © King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

(Right:) Movie star Alan Ladd in a “still” from MGM’s The Black Knight (1954). This movie—whose title hero may or may not have owed anything to the only slightly earlier film from 20th, as well as to a 1952 Ivanhoe film—continued the concept of a secret-identity Black Knight, but made him again a hero instead of a villain. It was probably a more direct ancestor of the LeeManeely concoction than anything in the four-color medium, its plot having many echoes in Atlas’ BK comic book. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [©2009 MGM, Inc., or its successors in interest.] (Above:) Classics Illustrated #2 – Ivanhoe. This 1957 re-adaptation by CI/Gilberton of the novel was drawn by Norman Nodel; scripter again unknown. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2009 First Classics, Inc.; by permission of Jake Lake Productions, Inc.]

The Swords And The Sorcerers

part two

A Sword Of WOOD WALLY Wood, That Is—The Man Who Crafted Some Of Marvel’s Earliest Sword-And-Sorcery Sagas by Richard Arndt In Alter Ego #83, at Ye Editor’s behest, comics researcher John Wells wrote a comprehensive overview of sword-and-sorcery comics from the 1940s (and its true beginnings with Avon’s “Crom the Barbarian” circa 1950) through the mid-1970s, by which time Marvel’s Robert E. Howard titles were well-established and had led to a mini-boom of s&s comics that rivaled the parallel explosion on the paperback racks. Somehow, however, there was one notable omission which we should have noticed—namely, a handful of stories written and drawn by Wally Wood in the months before Conan the Barbarian #1 made its mid-1970 debut. Here are a few words about that quartet of tales….

Lone Starr

arvel launched its own mystery titles in 1969 with Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness—and it was in the former of those comics, rather in the pages of Conan the Barbarian in 1970, that Marvel’s first true sword-and-sorcery tales appeared.

Of course, the first s&s effort in either of these titles—which was covered three issues ago—was the fittingly titled “The Sword And The Sorcerers!” in Chamber of Darkness #4 (April 1970), written by Roy Thomas and illustrated by Barry Smith (now Windsor-Smith). Certainly this is a precursor of the comic book Conan, who would debut a mere six

Wood Was A Marvel! In 1982 Thumbtack Books, Inc., re-published Wally Wood’s four Marvel sword-and-sorcery stories and his “Dr. Doom” work from Astonishing Tales (the latter minus a splash page or two) in a hardcover edition. The composite cover art was made up of a Wood self-portrait, the demonic Xzar, Johnny, and Princess Yrill, all in images taken from “Flight into Fear!” in Tower of Shadows #5 (May 1970). For photos of Wood, see A/E #8 and other issues. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

months later, as emphasized by the fact that its lead character, Starr the Slayer, is a doppelgänger of the Cimmerian as he would appear in the first half dozen issues of Conan the Barbarian, right down to the yak-horned helmet. There’s even a New York City billboard that advertises the services of “Bran, Mack, & Morn, Realtors”! It’s an excellent story, mixing fantasy past and the 20th century—cleverly told and well illustrated, with more heft to it than one might expect from a seven-page story. Yet Starr never appeared again.

The Swords And The Sorcerers

part three

Conan Before The Bronze Age How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics by Will Murray A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: It’s a bit tricky to relate the story of sword-and-sorcery in the comics without either dwelling overmuch on the importance of Marvel’s Conan—or slighting the mags in which he appeared—in order to play up other, lesser-known examples of the genre. For that reason, in our coverage of the genre three issues ago, John Wells only touched on Conan the Barbarian and its black-&-white sister titles Savage Tales and The Savage Sword of Conan. This time, we’re making up for it with two pieces—first this overview by Will Murray, to be followed by Jim Amash’s interview with Ye Editor. Some repetition between the two is unavoidable, but we’ve done our best to avoid any more déjà vu for the reader than we can help… and a few pre-1970 forebears are only mentioned in passing because of #80’s coverage. But Will has dug up some vintage quotes by Gil Kane, Roy Thomas, and others which add flesh to the bones of the story, and in one or two cases even suggest a slightly different sequence of events than Roy remembers. Rashomon lives! Now, onward….

f any single event signaled the end of the Silver Age of Comics, it was publication of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian in the summer of 1970. Although it didn’t happen overnight, Conan’s comics advent marked the beginning of the end of Silver Age super-hero dominance. A new age was dawning. The Bronze Age.

While the barbarian hero didn’t hail from the Bronze Age of mankind, but from the mythical Hyborian Age of a pulp writer’s creation, Conan’s time period was so similar to the era when bronze was the dominant metal that it’s eerily appropriate that he later came to symbolize Marvel’s Bronze Age. Conan the Cimmerian was created by Texas pulp writer Robert E. Howard back in 1932. He first appeared in “The Phoenix on the Sword,” in the issue of the magazine Weird Tales for December 1932. There must have been something in the air that Depression month, for Fran Striker’s Lone Ranger was being created at the same time, while Erle Stanley Gardner and Lester Dent were writing the very first Perry Mason and Doc Savage novels in the weeks leading up to Christmas ’32. Howard’s less heroic character careened between being a thief, mercenary, and pirate, finally becoming King of Aquilonia in the

The Man And The Myth One of Roy Thomas’ personal favorite issues of The Savage Sword of Conan was #200 (Aug. 1992), which he wrote not long after he returned to scripting the Cimmerian’s exploits. The story segued back and forth between an archetypal Conan saga and the events of Robert E. Howard’s creation of the hero in early 1932 as related in his letters—with the latter episode veering off into a fantasy adventure in which REH found himself in trouble with dangerous drug smugglers on the Texas-Mexico border. Roy had tried to sell Marvel on doing “Barbarians of the Border” as a graphic novel; when that failed, he settled, with the blessing of editor Mike Rockwitz (who had engineered his return to the barbarian at the turn of the ’90s), for a black-&white magazine version, in tandem with John Buscema (layout penciler) and Ernie Chan (finisher/inker). [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics

“There was a strange outfit called Triangle that specialized in fantasy fiction,” artist Gray Morrow recalled to Comics Scene. “They were printing a lot of Robert E. Howard’s stuff and were doing poorly with it. They decided to see what could be done with Conan in comic book form. I had never heard of Conan before, so they gave me Howard’s ‘Tower of the Elephant’ and told me to come up with a comic based on it. It was the first appearance of Conan in comic book form. The problem was they never printed the comic. I got paid for it, but today, it must be sitting on a shelf somewhere getting moldy.” Triangle published TV Guide and Seventeen, but no known fantasy or comic books. Two obscure 1953 digests, John Raymond’s Fantasy Tales and Space Science Fiction, did reprint Howard. Morrow may have been referring to them. No doubt the institution of the Comics Code killed the project. Conan languished after that. Or so it seemed in the USA. South of the

“Phoenix” Rising The world’s very first visual glimpse of Conan the Cimmerian was in the above illustration by Jayem Wilcox for “The Phoenix on the Sword,” printed in the Dec. 1932 issue of Weird Tales pulp magazine. It was the only artwork that appeared with that first published “Conan” adventure. [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

later years of his tumultuous life. Conan’s meteoric career ended when Howard committed suicide in 1936, but the Cimmerian refused to expire. Often reprinted, he was never totally forgotten. He seemed like the perfect fodder for comic books. So why it did take until 1970? Actually, as related in more detail in Alter Ego #80, the long Road of Kings to comic books started back in 1950, when Avon published three pseudo-Conan strips featuring a primitive hero called Crom the Barbarian in Out of This World Adventures and Strange Worlds. Authored by Gardner Fox and drawn by Weird Tales artist John Guinta, it was a shameless attempt to co-opt Conan, whose favorite oath was “Crom!” That same year, Gnome Press released the first of their hardcover Howard books, Conan the Conqueror, which planted the seeds of a major mainstream Conan revival of the ’60s. It’s no coincidence that Avon reprinted Howard pulp stories in their Avon Fantasy Reader. Only three or four years after the Avon “Crom,” with comics suffering from a horror backlash and dogged by Congressional investigations, Conan came within an inch of taking the Atom Age of Comics by storm.

All Elephants Are Gray In The Dark Ages Though no art from Gray Morrow’s reported full-length 1953 comic book adaptation of “The Tower of the Elephant” has ever turned up and it indeed may no longer exist, that exceptional artist did this illustration for The Savage Sword of Conan #7 (Aug. 1975). Or had he done it some time before and simply sold Marvel rights to print it in conjunction with a history of swordand-sorcery fiction written by Lin Carter? In fact, we can’t be 100% certain the sword-wielder shown above was originally rendered to be Conan rather than a generic barbarian. Still, it’s tempting to muse on an entire early Conan comic drawn in a somewhat earlier version of this style. At left, Gray autographs a copy of Warren’s Creepy magazine at John Benson’s 1966 New York Comicon; with thanks to Bill Schelly and photographer Jack C. Harris. [Art ©2009 the respective copyright holders; photo ©2009 Jack C. Harris.]

The Swords And The Sorcerers

part four

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]… Than Spider-Man!” ROY THOMAS Talks—Yes, Again— About Howard’s Hyborian Hero Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Having written numerous times about the early days of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian and Savage Sword of Conan magazines, especially the former, for afterwords in Dark Horse’s Chronicles of Conan trade paperback series, and having spoken about it in part in interviews in A/E #50 & #70, I asked associate editor Jim Amash for ideas on an approach this time around. Jim nimbly came up with questions, I think, which both cover the familiar-to-some ground that needs to be covered, plus a few angles which haven’t been explored before. Between Jim’s interview and Will Murray’s article which precedes it, we hope we’ve covered all the barbarian bases… mostly accompanied by art not recently reprinted by Dark Horse Comics. —Roy.

“I Never Tried Reading [Conan] Again For A Couple Of Years” JIM AMASH: When did you discover the Conan character? ROY THOMAS: In ’65 or ’66, Conan the Adventurer came out, so I would have been in my middle 20s. The first Robert E. Howard paperback I ever bought—though I didn’t know Roy Thomas (photo) and one of the jewels of his and Dann’s original art collection— “Jewels of Gwahlur,” that is. Artist Nestor Redondo gifted him with this original color prelim for his cover painting for The Savage Sword of Conan #60 (Jan. 1981), which illustrated the L. Sprague de Camp/Lin Carter story “The Ivory Goddess,” a sequel to Robert E. Howard’s “Jewels of Gwahlur.” That issue became the last of 60 in a row scripted (and edited) by Roy, as certain Marvel powers-thatwere held back his five remaining black-&-white “Conan” tales, already completed, in order to break his run on the book for petty reasons one can only guess at. Those five were printed in SSOC #66-70. [Art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.] This photo of Roy was taken for a newspaper in his hometown, The Jackson [Missouri] Journal, for Sept. 23, 1970—a month or so after Conan the Barbarian #1 went on sale. At that time, he had no idea that, decades later, that would be one of the comics for which he is most remembered—or how major a character Conan would become for Marvel! Back then, he couldn’t even have spelled “Arnold Schwarzenegger”! Roy and then-wife Jeanie were visiting his parents, after flying from New York to St. Louis to attend an Elvis Presley concert.

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

his name then—was Almuric, which was an Edgar Rice Burroughs pastiche. I had that around, but I’d never read it. I’d read of Howard and Conan in Dick Lupoff ’s book on Burroughs [Edgar Rice Burroughs: Master of Adventure, 1966]. I’d read about Conan, but I hadn’t seen anything before the first Lancer paperback. I’ve expressed this a number of times: I love, still, the cover art of that first book. I always liked Frank Frazetta’s work. I read the back cover, which said something about Atlantis, probably that whole thing about how the ocean drank Atlantis or something of that sort. I thought it would be a little bit more like John Carter, which I liked—that mixture of fantasy and science-fiction. I read the first few pages of “The People of the Black Circle,” and while it was well-written—well, this barbarian comes in, throws this girl over his shoulder, and takes off with her. At this stage, this wasn’t the sort of thing I was interested in it. I kept on buying the paperbacks for the covers, but I never tried reading any of it again for a couple of years. JA: You told me you’d been getting mail from the fans about doing Conan as a comic book series. Is that when you started taking him seriously?

Ticket To Ride (Left:) Frank Frazetta's iconic cover for Conan the Adventurer, the first Lancer paperback featuring REH's hero, caught the eye of Roy and many others in 1966. This nearly-identical version is from a second edition in 1967.

THOMAS: Yeah, that started around 1967 or ’68. And somewhere along the line, I read (Right:) Roy was partly lured into making Lin Carter’s Thongor in the City of Magicians (1968) the first one of the non-Conan books. The first sword-and-sorcery novel he ever read—so that Thongor nearly became Marvel’s first licensed s&s hero—by sword-and-sorcery book I ever read was Lin its gorgeous Frazetta cover. From the early 1970s through much of the ‘80s, RT owned the original oil Carter’s Thongor in the City of Magicians. painting, which Frazetta later titled “Thor’s Flight.” The image would’ve made a perfect illustration for And that was because it was a combination Robert E. Howard’s second Conan story, “The Scarlet Citadel.” Thanks to Roger Holda for the scan. [©2009 of Conan and John Carter. It was like John the respective copyright holders.] Carter in various science-fantasy ways, but work, where there are a lot of stretches that are basically more realistic, in Thongor was also rather like Conan when he’d become a king, and Carter a certain sense. But mostly, I think what appealed to me were the same was imitating Howard’s writing as much as Burroughs’. Maybe it helped things that I wrote about in my memo to [Marvel publisher] Martin prepare me for Conan. I read that book and liked it… not a huge amount, Goodman in late ’69 or very early ’70. Stan decided I should write a but I liked it. And fans were writing in, telling us about these books. I memo to Goodman as to why we should do a character like Conan. The started reading them and liking them. I don’t remember how much I read things I mentioned to Goodman were the things that I thought would before we started thinking about getting the rights to do a sword-andappeal to the readers. Magic, I knew, had never really sold a lot of comics, sorcery comic, and then, of course, we ended up with the rights to Conan. if horror wasn’t part of the mix, or else “Doctor Strange“ would have been By the time I started working on Conan comics in earnest, I think I’d a big deal, or “Dr. Fate“ or “The Spectre“ back in the ’40s. None of them read pretty much everything about him that had been published. This were ever big sellers, but at the same time, there was still something of occurred during that intervening year when we were getting vaguely and that element with the fantasy, and that it was more than just swords-andslowly geared up to do a book like that. I mean, after all, we were beaten sandals. by several different companies, right? DC had its “Nightmaster” character And of course, the villains were all magicians. There was the fact that for three issues, and Warren had a few things. Even Wally Wood did a few we had a muscular hero in the vein of Captain America or a Thor, even stories for Marvel, which we forgot to mention in Alter Ego #80. They more so. We were going to have a lot of beautiful women, and that never were non-continuing-character stories that were done even before the hurts anything, but I didn’t play that up. Some of them could be clad in a “Starr the Slayer” that Barry and I did. So there were several things like little less than the street wear in super-hero comics in those days. that out there. There was that “Clawfang, the Barbarian.“ That’s the one that Wally Wood did with Al Williamson. And then, of course, you had monsters, and Marvel always sold a fair amount of monsters—some of our biggest heroes were the Thing and the JA: What about Conan did you like, and that you thought you were Hulk—so it had all those elements that somewhat appealed to me. And going to be able to sell the readers on liking? even more so, I thought they might appeal to the readers, if we could get THOMAS: What appealed to me was the fact that it was adventure with a past the fact that it was going to look like an ancient/medieval world. I mixture of fantasy as well as swashbuckling elements. What I had liked don’t think I emphasized that point to Goodman... but it was inherent in about John Carter is that you sort-of mixed those elements—and in John the concept, so we had to try to get around it because it was working Carter, the fantasy is much more preeminent than in Robert E. Howard’s against the series in the early days.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

Kulled From The Lists Besides penciling “Starr the Slayer” and the early issues of Conan the Barbarian, young British artist Barry Smith was tapped at least twice in the early ’70s to be the artist of an abortive “King Kull” project suggested to him by Roy, featuring REH’s Weird Tales precursor to Conan. At one stage Barry prepared several illustrations the pair hoped would convince a paperback publisher to take a flyer with a King Kull graphic novel independent of Marvel— probably around the time Gil Kane’s ill-fated Blackmark was coming out in 1971. Those drawings were printed in The Savage Sword of Conan #3 in ‘74. Also, probably after the g.n. tryout, Barry was assigned by Marvel to draw a “Kull” story— with Gerry Conway as scripter—for Savage Tales #1 (1971). But, in the 11th hour, based on strong preliminary sales reports on Conan #1, editor Stan Lee opted for a “Conan” exploit in that black-&-white mag instead; so Roy and Barry hurriedly produced their classic adaptation of “The Frost Giant’s Daughter.” This 1970-71 penciled art, with which Barry gifted Roy some years back and which has never before been published, was probably a concept page for the Savage Tales “Kull”—complete with the artist’s copious notes about ways to differentiate the Atlantean from the Cimmerian. They make interesting, even amusing reading. Thanks to Barry for permission to print this piece and to his assistant Alex Bialy. [Art ©2009 Barry WindsorSmith; Kull is a trademark of Kull Productions, Inc.]

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten” Part II Of Our In-Depth Interview With JOE EDWARDS, Writer & Artist Of Archie & Li’l Jinx Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

ast issue, the late Joe Edwards (1921-2007) spoke primarily about his early days at Archie Comics, when the company was called MLJ and had begun as a publisher of super-hero and adventure material. Archie Andrews, of course, came along in 1942 and, before long, changed everything—including the very name of the company! At the point at which we divided the interview, Joe was talking about how, when he started at MLJ in the early 1940s, he generally worked three days a week at the office, drawing the humor features that were increasingly becoming important to the firm, but had a lot of freedom, often being told simply give the editors “five pages… three pages… one page”… with the precise content left to his discretion. —Jim.

“The McClure Syndicate [Is] Where ‘Archie’ Got Its Springboard” JIM AMASH: Were you allowed to create anything you wanted? JOE EDWARDS: Because I could write, they gave me pretty much free rein. They would just say, “Give me three pages!” and you would bring in something that was different. Whatever it was, you’d bring in single pages, half pages. They needed stuff to fill the book. There was one—“Randy.” Does that ring a bell? It was very short-lived, but it was a strip with the kind of teenagers that [MLJ] was looking for. I just want to give you an insight into [comic book companies]. Publishers always loved to follow in somebody else’s footsteps. Now, John Goldwater realized in his infinite wisdom, that “Archie” was a good seller, so [he figured] let’s make “Wilbur.” In other words, he said, “Before the opposition gets going [copying our ideas], I want to be able to spin off my different characters. Maybe one of them would come to be profitable.” Case in point: when we started with Jughead, he was just a side character. Sam Schwartz took him and made him into a very [important character]. It was Harry Shorten who carried the ball. When Bob Montana and I went into the Army, MLJ went around to the newspaper syndicates to sell it. It didn’t sell right away, but [it was finally picked up by] the McClure Syndicate. That’s where “Archie” got its springboard. JA: So you think it was the newspaper strip that really made Archie popular in our culture?

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris EDWARDS: With McClure. The contract [stated that] if McClure didn’t bring in enough newspapers, which would mean so much money, by the end of a certain period of time which I forget now, the strip syndication would revert back to the Archie company. And McClure, in turn, could sell it to the next syndicate, which they did to King Features. That’s history. So McClure got the first crack at it, but they didn’t bring home the bacon. So when Bob and I were in the Army, Harry actually carried the ball, and tried peddling it himself. He was very instrumental in doing that.

Everything’s Archie! Joe Edwards is seen, some years back, giving an art demonstration at a school—and he was definitely qualified to give one! Below are the major characters he drew for Archie Comics during his decades in the field, from the Riverdale gang to Li’l Jinx. Art and photos accompanying this interview have been provided by Joe himself, and more recently by his widow Eda Lisa Edwards, via Jim Amash & Teresa R. Davidson. [Art ©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

and time. But so many times, I came in with “Gee, I got a terrific ending, but I don’t have a beginning.” [mutual laughter] If you look at the first cover of Archie, you’ll see Bumby, the Detective, the Bee-tective. That was one of the early things I created. One day, I came in with a story, and Harry said, “Joe, what are you doing?” I said, “The first page is blank, and the last page is this first page.” [mutual chuckling] Harry said, “How the hell did you figure that one out?” I said, “Harry, I did a little research.” I used to go to the candy stores where the comic books were sold, and I would watch the kids take the magazines and flip them. You know, open the book and scan the pages. They would come across something that would catch their eye. I thought, “That would be an interesting premise.” So when I was writing the story, I thought, “If I put a blank page in there, kids are going to stop.” When they flip the book, they would see a blank page, they would ask what happened. That was the psychology behind it. Anyway, I did it, I put a bill in, and I got called in by John Goldwater. John says to me, “Joe, we can’t pay you for a blank Strip Joint page.” I said, “Yeah, you can.” I was only 19 so I had a lot of A photo of Joe, taken a few years ago, holding a pair of Archie newspaper dailies chutzpah. So I says to John, “[It’s an] integral part of this story.” He on which he’d worked, with a framed “Li’l Jinx” page in the background. Thanks said, “How do you figure that?” Harry was sitting there at the time, to Eda Lisa Edwards. and Harry knew what was going to happen. So I told John the Bob and I worked together on the strip. I’d come in, we’d have lunch story, he just sat there like I hit him with a two-by-four. He turned to with Harry, and we would talk about it. All three of us kicked ideas Harry and said, “Harry, have Joe put something on the page, but pay him around. Harry said to me, “You know, you did animation. Why don’t you for the blank page.” [Jim laughs] This was when I was young and bushyput the animation in the book, and work with Bob on stories and see what tailed. But I told you the psychology behind it. To me, that was part of you can do?” writing material, to find out what the motivation was. I learned it the hard way. A lot of the writers had to learn it, but a lot of them don’t know how JA: How much of a writer do you think Bob Montana was? You were a to develop an idea. Harry would show us some of the things. Harry was a real writer. You could sit and do a plot, beginning, middle, and end with good writer; he could look at your work, and [suggest changes]. He never appropriate punchlines and all. Was Montana that kind of writer, too? said to me, “That’s no good.” He would say, “Let’s see if we can do something with it.” In other words, he didn’t hit your ego, and that was EDWARDS: Yes, we both seemed to work off of each other. Harry important. Shorten was the one who guided us. He was our mentor. I remember we’d either come in Thursdays or Fridays with written material not nailed down, an idea that was bugging our brains. “I have an idea. I think it could be an ‘Archie‘ story.” One word led to another and Harry would say, “Why don’t we try it this way? Why don’t we try it that way?” Harry would train us to think a certain way; a beginning, middle, and end. Sometimes we would start with the middle; sometimes, we’d start with the end; and sometimes, the beginning. And sometimes, it all fell together 1-2-3. That came with experience

Passing The Hatlo Jimmy Hatlo’s popular daily panel They’ll Do It Every Time (this one consists of two pictures) regularly paid “a tip of the Hatlo hat” to readers who sent in ideas, as in the 1957 example at left. Above is the originally imitative but successful rival panel There Oughta Be a Law, written by Harry Shorten and drawn by Al Fagaly—also, in this instance, a two-pic gag. If there was ever an artist named Whipple associated with the latter feature, as Joe observes, we didn’t find a sample of his work. [They’ll Do It Every Time panel ©2009 King Features Syndicate, Inc.; There Oughta Be a Law panel ©2009 McClure Syndicate or successors in interest.]

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

When The MLJ Heroes Had Pep Last issue we featured the Bob Montana-drawn cover of Pep Comics #36 (Feb. 1943), whereon The Shield and The Hangman were carrying a beaming Archie. Inside that issue, the “Shield” and “Hangman” stories sported impressive art by Irv Novick and Bob Fujitani, respectively—but Montana’s “Archie,” even though he didn’t show up till p. 55 of a 68-page mag, was clearly poised to take over the entire company then known as MLJ. See the whole story in A/E #82, still available from TwoMorrows. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Harry encouraged you to open doors, to experiment. That was the kind of tutoring that he would do, whereas the guys in the main office didn’t understand that. John had other assets which I felt were important in putting out this product, such as his business knowledge of trying to keep the costs down on the paper costs, and the engraving and all of that. He was a good businessman. Montana [wanted more freedom to work, so he] moved to Meredith, New Hampshire, where I used to send a lot of ideas to him. We worked on the newspaper strip together. He would send it to me, I would finish it up, ink, and letter it. One time Bob had the flu and he called me. “Joe, I’m going to turn the strip over to you.” I said, “Bob, as good and honest as I am, I don’t know if I can duplicate what you’ve got.” You know, each one does a fingerprint. So he says, “I’ll draw and ink in the heads, and the fingers if it’s related to the gag, and even the shoe if it’s possible.” And that was pretty much what we did for a while. JA: I didn’t realize you were one of Bob Montana’s inkers. Did Montana not ink his work? EDWARDS: He was a fair inker, and when you saw Bob’s stuff, you knew it was his stuff—like you. Everyone can recognize your inks. There are little things that, no matter how you try to hide it, they’re there. The way

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

you draw the fingers, the way the thick and thin lines flow, these are things that you build in and Bob, he had an old-fashioned style. The outline was thick, the inside was thin. If you look at his stuff very carefully, you’ll find that to be pretty much the program that he used to follow.

it that way, I’m sure he had a good reason,” because he liked Sam. I said, “It’s business and you have to accept it.” And of course, he did. Sam came back to Archie, so that was it.

JA: So he seldom inked his own work then.

EDWARDS: No.

EDWARDS: At the beginning, before we got into “Archie,“ he inked his own stuff. He would send it in and then later, as it became popular, they wanted production. So they had to speed up the inking so he would lay out roughs very lightly, and the inkers started to pick up his technique of thick outside. If you look at it carefully, it’s a heavy line outside, but it’s almost a steady line, almost like you took a ballpoint and did it, so it was the same weight. But as time went on, each artist who worked on it introduced their little idiosyncrasies. You would see things in there that changed it, but Bob’s stuff was quite simple and easy to follow.

JA: So that was a bad breakup when Harry left.

JA: They obviously forgave Sam, but did they ever forgive Harry?

EDWARDS: Yeah, there was a lot of bitterness. Some of it, Harry would talk to me about it, and a lot of it, he didn’t. JA: Would you say Harry was well-liked by the freelancers? EDWARDS: Oh, yes, 100%! He was what you’d call an honest editor. He knew what he was talking about, and he was a good teacher. He wanted us to learn for ourselves and we did. He would teach you without you knowing you were learning, which was a wonderful thing. And he would never make you feel bad. He would say, “I like that, so why don’t we see if we can open that door on that side of the script and see what happens with it.” And dammit, he was good.

JA: I saw a Bob Montana cover of Jackpot where he drew Steel Sterling, and some of the other superheroes. Do you think he liked doing that stuff? EDWARDS: No, he didn’t. He wasn’t happy [doing super-heroes]. It was a buck.

“Hit The Fan With Ten Ideas—One Of Them May Sell”

JA: You really liked Harry Shorten. EDWARDS: Harry was really mostly responsible for carrying the ball. Sometime after Harry left Archie, I went down to Florida, and he was kinda sick at the time. It was over for him. I remember he was so happy to see me that he hugged me. He said, “It was such a wonderful time in our lives.” He was a little annoyed because I had made an appointment with somebody else, and we had to be up north in Florida. He said, “You could sleep here. Stay here.” I says, “Harry, these people are very old friends,” and he was so disappointed, and I feel very bad to this day about it. [At some point, Archie had] almost a 90% sales, which was fantastic. So they knew they had a winner. Harry walked in to John Goldwater’s office, and said, “I’d like to be a partner. After all, I’m bringing in big, big bucks and I’m bringing in ‘Archie.’ I think I’ve earned it.” And John looked at him, and told him where to go.

Montana By Montana? This caricature of “Archie” writer/artist/co-creator Bob Montana appears in the 1991 hardcover Archie: The First 50 Years, by Charles Phillips—though the book doesn’t make clear if it was drawn by Montana himself. Anyway, since we used a photo of him in our previous installment of this Joe Edwards interview…! [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

JA: Is that why he left and did the Tower Comics?

JA: At one point, The Black Hood was one of their more popular super-heroes. They tried a Black Hood pulp magazine, but it only lasted three issues. I thought that it was very interesting that they would take that particular character, and try to make a pulp character out of him. EDWARDS: I’ll say this: they were trying. But there was another lesson that we learned: hit the fan with ten ideas—one of them may sell. All of the publishers do that. JA: Was the page rate for doing the super-heroes the same as for the humor work back then? EDWARDS: I don’t know. That was a whole, separate department. I never got involved with that.

JA: So you really didn’t do much with the guys who did the super-heroes.

EDWARDS: It was a combination [of things]. Harry called me one day and said, “Joe, I don’t think I’ll be around long.” I said, “Why? You’re doing such a good job.” He said, “That’s my problem. John has been asking me to keep his son Richard under my wing, and teach him what I know. I see the handwriting on the wall. I’ve gotta get out of here.”

EDWARDS: We would meet up there for a Christmas party. What it was, we would get our assignment over the phone. “Do six pages. I need a page, I need two pages.“ You would do it, and you would either send in a messenger if they need it immediately, or you would bring it in, which was always preferable because if there were any corrections, you could do them on the spot. So it was a very loose situation, but they catered mostly to the artists in that sense.

JA: Well, Shorten was with the company up until 1957. Didn’t Sam Schwartz go with him to Tower Comics?

JA: We haven’t really talked about Harry Lucey.

EDWARDS: Yes. Sam left for that, and was the editor. Sam lived a few blocks away from Harry so [they had] a [personal] relationship. Harry said, “You want to be editor? Be editor.” Unfortunately, Tower didn’t make it. Harry was the president and the publisher. JA: Right, but those were great comic books. I have heard that, when Tower folded, Harry didn’t tell Sam. EDWARDS: That’s right. [chuckles again] Sam cried to me, “He didn’t even tell me.” So I said, “Look, Sam, business is business, and if Harry did

EDWARDS: He was a sweetheart with a wonderful sense of humor. You know, each person has an individual quality or a statement that you make. Harry used to always say to me, “Let’s get together and we’ll sharpen the pencil,” [Jim chuckles] meaning “Let’s go over and we’ll see if all the numbers jive.” When we were fighting for more money up there, Harry would say, “Well, we’ve got to sharpen the pencils, Joe.” Harry came from St. Louis. He had an advertising agency which went kaput. He had been up at MLJ with Harry Shorten before I came up there. We became very dear friends. He was a wonderful friend and an artist.

hat if, instead of selling his share of All-American Publications to DC co-publishers Harry Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz in 1945, as happened in the Real World, Max Charles Gaines had instead bought DC Comics from them? Just imagine…a comic book industry in which (due to threatened lawsuits by Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, and Bob Kane, which resulted in there briefly being two competing versions of “Superman” and “Batman” titles on the newsstands in the late ’40s with both versions eventually

being cancelled) the characters Green Lantern, The Flash, and Wonder Woman had instead become the surviving Golden Age heroes—stars of comic books, radio, movies, and TV! (Even so, in our world, all art on the next page features characters trademarked and copyrighted by DC Comics.) Not a dream (precisely)… not a hoax (exactly)…just an Imaginary Tale of an alternative universe and of…

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc. by Bob Rozakis

Book One – Chapter 6: “We Should Form A Club Or Society…” [NOTE: The material in this chapter appeared in somewhat different form in Dynamic World of AA Comics #3, as part of “Strange Schwartz Stories,” written by Bob Rozakis and Ted Skimmer.]

ith the success of the new Superman, DC editor Julie Schwartz was given the go-ahead to revive another Golden Age character. It was not much of a surprise when he decided that the second member of AA’s Silver Age roster would be a new incarnation of Batman.

“I never paid much attention to the original version of the character,” Julie said in a conversation about the revival. “He was just an ordinary man who went swinging around the city beating up criminals. He had his batrope and a few things in his utility belt, but that was it.” In the early discussions with writer John Broome, Schwartz emphasized his desire to give their new Batman a greater element of science-fiction. “I’ve always been a science-fiction man, so I wanted our new version to be able to have outer space adventures.” When Broome suggested they play up the utility belt and that Batman could pull just about anything he could think up out of it, Julie said, “That’s too magical.” “Not if it is able to access a cosmic energy source via black hole technology,” countered Broome. “The things Batman thinks up aren’t really in the belt. He’s able to tap this cosmic energy and form that into what he needs by his own willpower.” When Schwartz demanded that Batman had to have some kind

Batting Around The Order Julius Schwartz (editor, top) and John Broome (writer) flank the Gil Kanepenciled cover of Showcase #22 (Oct. 1959), which introduced AA’s more science-fictional Batman to a new generation—a “New Look” version, as it were. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, from the collection of Shane Foley. Photos courtesy of the Julius Schwartz Collection (with special thanks to Bob Greenberger) & Don Ensign.

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.

of weakness, Broome came up with the time limit that the creations could exist. “After six minutes, the energy dissipates,” said Broome. “So if Batman ties up a criminal with his batrope, he better find something else to use, or the guy is going to be free in a few minutes.” When asked how they came up with the six-minute deadline, Julie said, “360 seconds! We were going to make it ten minutes at first. Then we started talking about the Batman Corps and how they were divided among 3600 space sectors and got into the multiples-of-60 business. At first, it was going to be 3600 seconds, but that was an hour and it seemed too long. So we went for 360 seconds instead.” Batman was given a three-issue slot in Showcase, beginning with #22, which came out in the summer of 1959. In the opening six-page story, “SOS Batman,” test pilot Hal Jordan is introduced. While flying in a new experimental jet for Ferris Aircraft, he spots an unidentified flying object streaking across the desert sky. He gives chase and sees the UFO crash. The resultant explosion damages Hal’s own craft, forcing him to eject. As he parachutes to the desert floor, he is lassoed and pulled to the site of the UFO crash. There he finds a dying Abin Sur, who explains that he is a member of the Batman Corps and that Hal has been chosen as his successor. With his final breaths, Abin Sur explains about his utility belt, that anything Hal needs can be pulled from it if he only thinks of it. Hal takes the belt, but before he can ask any more questions, Abin Sur dies. After burying him, he begins a trek across the desert and back to civilization,

Sidebar Excerpted from the “Batman’s Mail Chute” letters page in Batman #3: Dear Editor: I have been reading AA Comics since the 1940s and am a big fan of your super-heroes, particularly your revivals of Superman and Batman. One thing about the new Batman puzzles me, however. The original character was inspired to adopt his identity after a bat flew in his window. What prompted the Guardians of the Universe to choose this look? Roy Thomas Jackson, Missouri (That’s an excellent question, Roy, and one we hope to address in an upcoming issue. Meantime, we will ask your fellow readers for their own ideas and print the best ones in these pages. – Ed.) Excerpted from the “Batman’s Mail Chute” letters page in Batman #6: Dear Editor: In Batman #3, reader Roy Thomas asked what prompted the Guardians of the Universe to choose a bat-design for their warriors. I suggest that this was not the case at all; their resemblance to an earthly bat is merely a coincidence. The heroes draw all their power and weapons from their utility belts and so the Guardians referred to them as the “wielders of the belt” or Beltmen! When Hal Jordan met the dying Abin Sur, he misunderstood the word and, subconsciously recognizing bat-like images of the uniform, thought it was “Batman.” E. Nelson Bridwell Oklahoma City, Okla. (We could not have come up with a better explanation ourselves, Nelson. Consider this the official story… and the reason that you are not holding issue #6 of Beltman! – Ed.)

Sketch As Sketch Can An unknown artist’s concept sketch of the 1959 Batman, submitted by owner/collector Alex Saviuk, who these days pencils the Spider-Man newspaper Sunday strip and inks the daily—juxtaposed with a couple of sample logos of the day, from the collection of Shane Foley.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Are They Kidding?! by Michael T. Gilbert

When Not Drawing Comics, Al’s The Brains Behind The Dreaded Purple Gang! Artist Sam Gilman (or whoever wrote the above panel) was having fun with cartoonist Al Avison. Avison was a Timely Comics mainstay, drawing “Captain America” (above right) and other high-profile strips. Hmm! A cartoonist smart enough to lead a gang of master crooks? Ha!

Are They Kidding?! The Real Origins Of The Marvel Universe! Do those names mentioned in a 1952 issue of Atlas’ Man Comics (see Gene Colan art, t left) sound a little familiar? Fans of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Sol Brodsky think so! Or how about the ones on Sgt. Snorkle’s list (bottom left)? Mort Walker (or someone!) may have been a fan of Al Williamson and Wally Wood! That pic’s from the second Beetle Bailey comic (Dec. 1953)––three years after the strip’s debut on Sept. 4, 1950—and during the heyday of EC! And the panel below from Dell/Western’s Tarzan comic book (drawn by Jesse Marsh, and written by Gaylord Dubois) gives a nod to newspaper Tarzan artists supreme Hal Foster and Burne Hogarth. But what’s with the Prince Valiant haircut? Sheesh!

Are They Kidding?!

Comic Fandom Archive

Found! “New” Photos From The 1965 New York Comicon! (Part 2) More Recently Discovered Pics From The Jerry Bails Collection by Bill Schelly

hree issues ago, as an adjunct to our detailed coverage in Alter Ego #20 of what I like to call “the first full-service comic book convention” ever—namely, David Kaler’s Academy Con of July 31/Aug. 1, 1964, held at the Broadway Central Hotel in New York City— we presented four pages’ worth of mostly long-lost photos which had languished in the collection of the late Jerry G. Bails. Even the founder of

A/E and “the father of comics fandom” had apparently forgotten about them for four decades! Sadly, Jerry passed away in late 2006. His widow Jean Bails found these photos among his many effects, and they were sent to Roy Thomas and me some months ago. They add immeasurably to the picture of that major fan-historical event, even if in most cases we have no idea who took the pics… and the picture quality varies widely, alas. This time, we have a few additional photos from the convention floor, most of which have never before seen print—and several from comics fandom’s first costume contest, the so-called “Masquerade”:

An Iron-Fisted Duo Actually, we start with a pic which was first printed in AE #70. On the second day of the con, Roy Thomas (left, in a hot-off-the-presses Avengers T-shirt) and prominent 1960s fan writer/publisher Rick Weingroff flank Green Lantern & The Atom artist Gil Kane, who is no doubt holding forth on the future potential of the comics medium. This conversation probably took place right after a panel in which all three had participated. At that time Roy had been in the field slightly over a month—and had jumped ship from DC to Marvel only two or three weeks before. Though Roy and Gil were destined to often collaborate at Marvel beginning with 1969’s Captain Marvel #17 and had been good friends for three decades by the time of the artist’s untimely passing in 2000, this is the only known photograph ever taken of the two of them together. At right is a penciled figure by Gil of his and Roy’s co-creation Iron Fist, from Marvel Premiere #15 (May 1974); with thanks to Carl Taylor. [Art ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.] A conversation at this comiccon between Gil and sf/comics fan John Benson eventually led to the ground-breaking Kane interview printed in Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #10, which is currently on view in TwoMorrows’ 10th-anniversary edition of the 1995 history Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine, co-edited by Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.

Comic Fandom Archive

Batting Around We don’t know who played this pint-sized version of the Caped Crusader, or even what gender may lurk behind this cape and cowl. But, as this photo was sent along with the rest of this “new slew” from Jean Bails, we presume the image came from this same New York comicon. If so, at this time, the circle around the bat on the costume’s shirt was only one year old—and really was a “New Look”! Remember, this is several months before Batman became an overnight phenomenon on TV!

Whatever A Spider Can Let’s also welcome to the party one Friendly Neighborhood WebSpinner, in a pretty darn good costume! In fact, we think the costumes on the whole at this con were of high quality, the more so given the fact that this was the very first comicon masquerade or “costume contest.” At this time, of course, Spidey was only three years old as a comic book hero!

Plas Had Class In further support of our contention that the costumes were generally of high quality, Bill Schelly offers for your consideration: Roy Thomas as Plastic Man, modeling a costume sewn by his Aunt Olivia back in Jackson, Missouri, a few weeks earlier. Until Jean Bails passed along this photo, Roy had assumed for more than four decades that this immortal moment was lost forever in the mists of time; he’s still not sure that might not have been for the best... though not because of the costume!

The Women Of Marvel? Carole Seuling as Mary Marvel, of course—an unknown femme-fan as a nursing character (maybe Timely/Marvel’s Nellie the Nurse or first Linda Carter—it’s way too early for Night Nurse!)—and Margaret Gemignani as Timely/Marvel’s Golden Age heroine Miss America. Margaret (a.k.a. Meg) was one of the very few young women active in the fanzines of the day. We haven’t heard anything of her in years, but hope she’s still enjoying herself as much as everybody seemed to be doing that day in 1965!

Note that the “V” neck of the costume is actually skin-colored cloth with lines on it that suggest Plas’ stitching, and that RT simply wore dark glasses, having been too busy with his new job as a writer and editorial assistant at Marvel to pick up any true goggles to enhance the look—though he did manage to darken his blond locks a bit.

More rare fan-photos from Jerry Bails’ private collection will appear in near-future editions of the Comic Fandom Archive, courtesy of Jean Bails.

In Memoriam

Dave(1955-2008) Stevens “They Were Rarely Just Jobs To Dave” by Mark Evanier

llustrator Dave Stevens, best known for his “good girl” art and The Rocketeer, died on March 11, 2008, following a long, wrenching battle with Leukemia. Dave was born July 29, 1955, in Lynwood, California. He was raised in Portland, Oregon; his family then relocated to San Diego, where he attended San Diego City College and became involved in the early days of the San Diego Comic Book Convention, now known as Comic-Con International. His skills as an artist were instantly evident to all, and he was encouraged by darn near every professional artist who attended the early cons, but especially by Jack Kirby and Russ Manning. In 1975, when Manning began editing a line of Tarzan comic books to be published in Europe, Dave got his first professional assignment, working on those comics and also assisting Russ with the Tarzan newspaper strip. Soon after, he worked on a few projects for Marvel (including the Star Wars comic book) and a number of underground comics. Later, he also worked with Russ on the Star Wars newspaper strip.

In 1977, Dave went to work for Hanna-Barbera, where he drew storyboards and layouts, many of them for the Super Friends and Godzilla

cartoon shows and bonded with veteran artist Doug Wildey, who produced the latter. Wildey and Stevens became close friends; and in 1982, when Dave created his popular character, The Rocketeer, he modelled the character’s sidekick, Peevy, on photos of Doug. Dave himself was Cliff Secord, who donned the mask of The Rocketeer, and other friends appeared in other guises.

Dave And Friends Dave Stevens and an unidentified young lady—plus one of his many illustrations featuring pin-up queen Bettie Page—plus a 1984 commission drawing of The Rocketeer. Thanks to Jim Korkis. [Art ©2009 Estate of Dave Stevens.]

The Rocketeer made Dave’s reputation and also spawned a resurgence of interest in 1950s figure model Bettie Page, whose likeness Dave used for the strip’s heroine. But the strip was not profitable for Dave, who was among the least prolific talents ever to attempt comic books. It wasn’t so much that he was slow, as his friends joked, but that he was almost obsessively meticulous, doing days of study and sketching to create one panel, and doing many of them over and over. Even then, he was usually dissatisfied with what he produced and fiercely critical of the reproduction. Friends occasionally pitched in to help with the coloring, but some begged off because they knew it was humanly impossible for anyone, including Dave himself, to produce coloring that he’d like. Eventually, he sold most of the rights to Disney for a Rocketeer movie that was produced in 1991. Dave served as a co-producer of the film and did a brief cameo, but the endeavor was not as lucrative for him as he’d hoped, and it pretty much ended Dave’s interest in continuing the character. Most of what Dave did after that fell into the general category of “glamour art,” including portfolios and private commissions. Many of these were illustrations of Bettie Page who, though once thought deceased, turned out to be alive and living not all that far from Dave. They met and Dave became her friend and, though he was not wealthy, benefactor. Deciding that too many others had callously exploited her likeness, Dave voluntarily aided Ms. Page financially and even took to helping her in neighborly ways. One time, he told me—and without the slightest hint of resentment—“It’s amazing. After years of fantasizing about this woman, I’m now driving her to cash her Social Security checks.”

Dave was truly one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life...and was certainly among the most gifted. Our first encounter was at Jack Kirby’s house around 1971 when he came to visit and show Jack some of his work. Kirby was very encouraging, and he urged Dave not to try and draw like anyone else but to follow his own passions. This was advice Dave took to heart, which probably explains why he took so long with every drawing. They were rarely just jobs to Dave. Most of the time, what emerged from his drawing board or easel was a deeply personal effort. He was truly in love with every beautiful woman he drew, at least insofar as [Stevens continued at bottom of next page]

SPECIAL “BETTER LATE THAN NEVER” CHRISTMAS ISSUE!

But something was wrong. It was Mary Marvel. She looked familiar … but different. Where had I seen her like this before? It was on the cover of the preceding issue, Captain Marvel Adventures #18. There she stood, with Captain Marvel on one side, Junior on the other, professionally rendered in beautiful, continuous tone, full color, opaque acrylics … but somehow reminding one of a film actress in a dentifrice ad, her head too big, her knees too low! By [Art & logo ©2009 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2009 DC Comics]

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and stories for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been a vital part of FCA since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue, Marc spoke of comic book action in “Captain Marvel term.” In this installment, Marc discusses the Yuletide cover he drew for Captain Marvel Adventures #19. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

t was a query heard more than once before: “Did you do the artwork for this?” Being held up for my attention was a photocopied inner page from an issue of Captain Marvel Adventures #49 or 50, or thereabouts, circa 1946. Then … after my nod in the affirmative … “How can you tell it’s your work?” It was easy. For one thing, it bore the faces of three people I knew … Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, and … hey! … what happened to Santa Claus?!! This art was prepared originally for a 1942 Christmas cover … and riding atop our super-hero had been none other than jolly old Saint Nick, himself … with a big bag of toys! It still looked like my artwork, though … even with Santa gone. So evident were little tell-tale clues like the metallic glint on Captain Marvel’s cuffs, obviously rendered with a favorite pen … and the particular twist of the cordage at the collar of his cape.

The Missing Nick “Where is Santa Claus?” queried Swayze upon reviewing the above Fawcett house ad for Mary Marvel’s upcoming solo comic book. The art, prepared originally for a Christmas issue of Captain Marvel Adventures (#19), had included “jolly old Saint Nick himself!” But Marc realized the Mary Marvel face and figure had been subtly altered. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Two Mary Marvels, then? The one I drew, and this … this other girl? That same question may possibly have been experienced elsewhere … maybe even in the offices “upstairs.” That would account for the next cover assignment having come to my table, where Mary’s graphic image had been originated. There was a practice that may have been in vogue at the time, of “recreating” comic book covers. I never got into that. The page in question may have been of that category … skillfully duplicated, but still, a copy … not an original. The puzzle prompted a peek at the ancient magazine for which the initial art had been prepared, Captain Marvel Adventures #19. “Largest Circulation of Any Comic Magazine,” went the Fawcett declaration of supremacy among Golden Age publishers. “On Sale Every Third Friday!” it continued in the promotional blurb on the cover.

The De Fuccio Papers – Part II More Splashings From The Fountain Of Knowledge That Was JERRY DE FUCCIO by Ron Frantz Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck [EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION: Former Mad associate editor, the late Jerry De Fuccio, possessed a vast amount of knowledge of the Golden Age of Comics—nuggets of which he would often share in correspondences with people such as myself and Ron Frantz, editor of the shortlived ACE Comics line. While my gab-fest with Jerry during the final six years of his life centralized upon our mutual love of artist C.C. Beck’s work, Frantz’s letters from De Fuccio, continued in this second installment of his three-part article, packed more drama and encompassed a wider variety of comic book lore and facts. We left off at the end of Part I with the events that led to Jerry’s firing from his longtime position at Mad magazine; as we pick up from last issue, Jerry’s plight went from bad to worse. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

t this point, the story swerves in a slightly different direction. In December of 1983, I had the pleasure of dining with Dick Giordano in Oklahoma City. Giordano had recently been promoted to Managing Editor at DC Comics. While we were shooting the breeze, Giordano mentioned that he was in dire need of an experienced editor to fill a vacancy on the DC staff. On that note, I suggested Jerry De Fuccio. Jerry had the experience and was certainly available. Giordano said that he liked Jerry and agreed he was qualified for the position, but stated as a matter of fact that he could not hire him.

I could tell the subject made Giordano uncomfortable. He really did not want to talk about it. However, after a bit of gentle prodding, Giordano explained that a certain Warner Bros. executive had a personal dislike for Jerry and seemed determined to make his life miserable. Of

course, his rancor had little (or nothing) to do with the business of publishing. Putting it as delicately as I can, it seems this executive had been romantically involved with a female executive at DC Comics. The situation came to a boil at some industry function. Jerry, who was in a state of inebriation, expressed his desire to become “intimate” with the lady. This act of indiscretion ended with Jerry getting his face slapped, which should have been the end of it. However, as things worked out, Jerry had made a bad enemy. The ironic thing is that Jerry never knew a thing about it.

A Mad Editor C.C. Beck drew this 1980 caricature of Jerry De Fuccio in the distinctive style of Mad artist Don Martin, prior to Jerry’s dismissal from his long-time position as Mad’s associate editor. [©2009 Estate of Don Martin.]

The bottom line is that, if Giordano had allowed Jerry to work at DC, he would have put his own position in jeopardy. He didn’t like the situation, but he was smart enough to realize which side of his bread was buttered. It seems strangely coincidental that Jerry was terminated from Mad shortly after Warner Bros. acquired ownership of the magazine from Bill Gaines. Feel free to draw your own conclusion.

In January of 1986, I was about to begin publication of the black-&-white ACE Comics line. It began with my acquiring the publishing rights to a Golden Age character (from Nedor/Standard) named Spencer Spook. Looking to publish new material featuring the character and knowing very little about the mechanics of publishing, I found it necessary to hire established professionals who could help me over the rough spots. My first move in this direction was to obtain the services of artist Pat Boyette, who knew the business inside and out. Frankly, I would have accomplished very little without his friendship and patient tutelage. Jerry De Fuccio was my first choice for a writer. By my way of thinking, Jerry would have been perfect for the assignment after spending all those years writing comedy for Mad. However, as things worked out, Jerry felt ill at ease with the project and balked. Veteran Charlton Comics writer Joe Gill picked up the slack and scripted the first three issues. Gill, I might add, did a fine job, leaving me to believe that things might have worked out for the best.

Mad Men L to R: John Putnam, Mad art director (and former Golden Age Fawcett/”Captain Marvel” artist), award-winning actor Jon Voight (and the father responsible for bringing Angelina Jolie into the world), and Mad associate editor Jerry De Fuccio at the Mad magazine offices in New York. The photo originally appeared in the C.C. Beck-edited FCA/SOB #6 (FCA #17) for Feb./March 1981.

Instead, Jerry contributed a splendid historical article which I included in the first issue. Shortly after publication, I had a friendly chat on the phone with Dick Giordano. The lead story involved Spencer Spook haunting a comic book convention, poking gentle fun at many comic book professionals of the

The De Fuccio Papers — Part II

time, including Giordano. Giordano actually got a kick out of the story. Then, on a less positive note, he warned me that a “high-ranking executive” at Warner Bros. had seen Jerry’s by-line on the article and didn’t like it. Using a diplomatic tone, Giordano wanted me to be aware that I would be making a powerful enemy if I continued to work with Jerry. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Although the caveat was offered in the spirit of friendship, I felt outraged. I told Giordano that I intended to work with Jerry or anyone else, and it was of no consequence to me if this Warner Bros. big-shot liked it or not. Later, after I had cooled down a bit, I realized that Giordano had tried to do me a favor. It was something that he certainly didn’t have to do. However, it didn’t change my opinion, and I continued to work with Jerry as often as I could. Strange as it might sound, this decision may very well have come back to haunt me a few years later. One thing about corresponding with Jerry is that you never knew what might next arrive in the mail. He was always sending something for my edification, such as this letter from Golden Age writer/editor Willard W. Harr, dated March 10, 1984: “It was like a voice out of the past to hear you rattle off these names. After all, you were talking about people that I worked with almost fifty years ago, and during that time much water has washed under the bridge (to kern a fraze) ... and washed away many memories.

Spencer Spooked Panels from the lead story in ACE Comics’ Spencer Spook #1 involved Spencer haunting a comic book convention, which poked a little fun at many comic book professionals of the time, including Dick Giordano. Even some guy dressed as the Big Red Cheese showed up a few times in the story. Script by Joe Gill; art by Pat Boyette. Jerry De Fuccio provided the issue’s historical text piece. [©2009 Ron Frantz.]

“As for Charles Biro, I don’t remember him as dynamic. He was a big fellow with a ready smile and a nice personality, and I don’t recall him displaying much temperament. As a matter of fact, he took a childlike delight in drawing little elf-like people he called ‘Goobies.’ Chesler tried to sell food manufacturers with the idea of putting the Goobies on their packages—such as cereals and puddings—but I don’t recall much success in the venture. Incidentally, a friend of mine by the name of Phil Sturm took over as editor. He probably could supply you with more info than I can.”

For whatever reason, Jerry forwarded this letter to me in February, 1986. I haven’t a clue as to why. The best I can figure is that Jerry thought it was something I needed to know. As a historian of the comics genre, Jerry frequently corresponded with various old-timers, many of them unknown to me. In this instance, Harr had been an obscure editor at the Harry Chesler shop from 1938-47. 2/5/86: I’m looking for G.I. Joe (Ziff-Davis) #12. Cover blurbs read: Ladies From Hell ... The Killties Are Comin’, and The Patchwork Quilt. Cover shows G.I. Joe winging rifle butt, with an infant on his back. Remarkable as it might seem, I had only recently acquired a copy of G.I. Joe #1 in a trade along with several other Ziff-Davis comics. I had no prior knowledge that Jerry needed the issue. Figuring that he needed it a lot more than I did, I mailed the issue to Jerry, calling it a belated Christmas gift.

2/14/86: Truthfully, in my time, I have undertaken three different whimsical strips for syndication, in each instance with incomparable art by Wally Wood, Jack Rickard, and Alex Toth. I paid for the art samples myself, so these artists were not obliged to speculate. They went all-out for me. I feel like a squeezed orange as regarding “funny stuff.” Since the advent of Spencer Spook, there have been too many variations on the frolicsome ghost concept. Still, I’d be happy to review your issues of Giggle Comics to determine if there is any depth to the character. 3/3/86: Two solid afternoons input, on consecutive Sundays, and I’ve concluded that Spencer Spook is too restrictive for me. It’s a limited theme with little potential for the human condition or basis in reality. I went so far as to contemplate how Walt Kelly would have handled the spirit world. Also Warren King’s “The Banshee” in the old V Comics. I’ve gotten far afield from the character rights you purchased. A man who thinks along your lines is Don Edwing. He does fine preliminary sketches, too. The only drawback is the he probably won’t work at comic book rates. Sorry to cut out on you, Ron, but these are hard times, trying to hold onto this huge house where I spent a happy childhood. I’d be glad to comb through Richard Hughes’s address book, the next time I’m in Madison, New Jersey.