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T H E U LT I M AT E C O M I C S E X P E R I E N C E !

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CONAN TM & © 2005 CONAN PROPERTIES INTERNATIONAL LLC. KING ARTHUR, MR. MIRACLE, AND SUPERMAN TM & © 2005 DC COMICS. GROO TM & © 2005 SERGIO ARAGONÉS. SPIDER-MAN TM & © 2005 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

TM

BARBARIAN

Barbarians, beasts, and legendary heroes abound in our

The Ultimate Comics Experience!

GODS AND WARRIORS

Volume 1, Number 11 August 2005 Celebrating the Best Comics of the '70s, '80s, and Today!

EDITOR Michael Eury

issue!

PUBLISHER John Morrow DESIGNER Robert Clark

PRO2PRO: SERGIO ARAGONÉS AND MARK EVANIER ON GROO .............................................2 The MADmen chat about comics’ dimmest barbarian, with rare art by Aragonés

ART ASSISTANT Rich J. Fowlks PROOFREADERS John Morrow and Eric Nolen-Weathington COVER ARTISTS John Buscema and Joe Jusko SPECIAL THANKS Neal Adams Tom Taggart Sergio Aragonés Joel Thingvall Manual Auad Roy Thomas Terry Austin Len Wein Daniel Best Renee Jerry Boyd Witterstaetter Mike Burkey Marv Wolfman Scott Burnley Kurt Busiek Jay Caldwell Gerry Conway Jon B. Cooke Don Corn Scott Dutton John Eury Mark Evanier Brian Friedman Dick Giordano Grand Comic-Book Database David Hamilton Heritage Comics Jeff Jatras Dan Johnson Terry Jones Joe Jusko Dave Karlen Nick Katridis Mark. B. Kirschner Michel Maillot Don Mangus Bob McLeod Steve Morger Brian K. Morris Richard Pini Wendy Pini John Romita, Sr. Josef Rubinstein Rose Rummel-Eury Tom Stewart Arthur Suydam

PRO2PRO BONUS: THE WIZ ...................................................................................................................................12 DC’s unpublished adaptation of the 1978 Michael Jackson movie, with Dan Spiegle art ROUGH STUFF: GODS AND WARRIORS PENCIL ART GALLERY ............................................14 Glorious graphite by Boring, J. Buscema, García-López, Heck, Kirby, Moebius, Pérez, Rude, M. Severin, Willingham, Wilshire, and Windsor-Smith OFF MY CHEST: SUPERMAN VS. SPIDER-MAN .............................................................................................26 Journalist Daniel Best uncovers the original crossover’s secret artist, interviewing a host of comics luminaries GREATEST STORIES NEVER TOLD: KING ARTHUR ............................................................................33 Unpublished for three decades, Nestor Redondo’s awe-inspiring artwork on the highly anticipated epic that never saw print FLASHBACK: BRIAN BOLLAND’S 1980s BRITISH ANNUALS .....................................................42 A look at rarely seen Bolland covers to U.K. publications BEYOND CAPES: CONAN THE LONG-RUNNING ................................................................................45 Behind the scenes of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, with art and/or commentary by Barry Windsor-Smith, Roy Thomas, John Buscema, Gil Kane, Joe Jusko, Neal Adams, and Kurt Busiek FANTASY ART GALLERY ..............................................................................................................................................66 Spellbinding illos by Bill Sienkiewicz, Joe Kubert, Jeff Jones, Wendy Pini, Mike Ploog and Alex Niño, and other talents INTERVIEW: ARTHUR SUYDAM ...........................................................................................................................74 Heavy Metal, Epic Illustrated, Cholly and Flytrap, and Mudwogs, then and now, with the award-winning artist BACK TALK ..............................................................................................................................................................................86 Reader feedback on issue #9

BACK ISSUE™ is published bimonthly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614. Michael Eury, Editor.

John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: BACK ISSUE, c/o Michael Eury, Editor, 5060A Foothills Dr., Lake Oswego, OR 97034. Email: euryman@msn.com. Six-issue subscriptions: $30 Standard US, $48 First Class US, $60 Canada, $66 Surface International, $90 Airmail International. Please send subscription orders and funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial office.

Conan the Barbarian TM & © 2005 Conan Properties International, LLC. Superman and Mister Miracle TM & © 2005 DC Comics. King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table © 1975 DC Comics. Groo the Wanderer TM & © 2005 Sergio Aragonés. Spider-Man TM & © 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © 2005 Michael Eury and TwoMorrows Publishing. BACK ISSUE is a TM of TwoMorrows Publishing. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

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groo

much Groo 2K Sergio Aragonés’ Groo and Ruferto in a 2000 commission shared with us

by Brian Friedman.

conducted January 26, 2005

interview

by Dan Johnson

Groo © 2005 Sergio Aragonés.

ado about

DAN JOHNSON: Sergio, tell us about Groo’s history. As I understand it, the character is close to 30 years old, correct?

SERGIO ARAGONÉS: We first published Groo in 1983, but the character was in existence long before then. I created the character in the early 1970s, but [for a long time], Groo was just a character on paper. I didn’t want to publish Groo unless I could retain the rights to him.

MARK EVANIER: Now I get to my purpose in life: correcting Sergio. [Groo] was first published in 1981.

ARAGONÉS: Yes, in Destroyer Duck #1 [from Eclipse Comics].

JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mark, you became aware

Creator-Owned Roots (Inset, far right) Groo was first seen in Steve Gerber’s Destroyer Duck #1. © 2005 Steve Gerber.

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of Groo when you saw some of the original sketches, right?

EVANIER: I saw those a couple of houses ago. Sergio had this beautiful house up in the hills, and we were up there one day and he said, “Let me show you something.” He pulled out these wonderful drawings, many of which were on the stationary of the Laugh-In television show [the second version, in 1977], which had been filmed recently, and they were all these barbarian characters and this one in particular named Groo. I asked Sergio, “Why Groo?”

He said, “I believe that name means nothing anywhere in any language.”

JOHNSON: What did you think when you first saw this character?

EVANIER: I thought it was a neat idea. I’m always a huge fan of anything Sergio did.

ARAGONÉS: The problem was, Dan, we couldn’t do anything with it. The publishing houses were against sharing the copyrights [with the creators].

EVANIER: At that point, you had a lot of double talk about ownership and copyrights. In this period of comics, companies were starting to realize that they couldn’t get new characters with the way they were doing business, but nobody had the guts to actually change things.

When Sergio had talked to publishers about doing Groo, they said, “Oh, yes, you can keep the rights, but of course we’ll have to own everything.” There was actually one person who told Sergio that it was illegal for an individual to own a copyright, so it would have to be in the name of the corporation.

ARAGONÉS: Another told me it would be over his dead body when the day came that I could own the copyrights.

EVANIER: Sergio was one of the few people that was actively working in comics who finally said, “No, I don’t believe that you’re being honest with me. I will not give you my work on those terms.” He not only wouldn’t give people Groo, he stopped working altogether on mainstream comics.

JOHNSON: That is incredible. Sergio, I remember the one-pagers you used to do for DC’s horror comics. Those were always terrific. So Groo is why you stopped doing those?

ARAGONÉS: Yes, that was the main reason.

DC didn’t want me to own the rights to my work, so I stopped working for them. I was writing stories for House of Secrets and House of Mystery, and one-pagers for the war books.

[I was doing] all kinds of stuff, but I stopped.

EVANIER: He even stopped right in the middle of a project we were doing together.

Groo’s Girl Trouble

We were doing for DC an adaptation of The Wiz, the film that starred Diana Ross and Michael Jackson [see the “Pro2Pro Bonus” following this interview]. I was writing it, and I was on page 32, I think, and suddenly Sergio had a falling out with [the company] over the concept of creators’ rights. Actually, I think when Sergio left, I was almost finished with the project. It went to another artist, but DC never printed it. I didn’t work for DC for a while after that.

JOHNSON: Sergio, I had always thought that you got out of comics because of your work with MAD and your television work. I didn’t know this stemmed from Groo.

EVANIER: A normal person would have not had time to work in television and MAD, but you’re talking to Sergio Aragonés. He’s probably done several pages while we’ve had this conversation already. And he’s done my carpeting.

He’s amazing.

JOHNSON: Tell us how the character finally did see print.

As you said, the first Groo appearance was in Steve Gerber’s Destroyer Duck.

EVANIER: Well, Steve Gerber was locked in a legal battle with Marvel Comics over Howard the Duck and everybody was rallying to Steve’s support, first of all because of the position [on creator’s rights] and also they didn’t believe that someone should lose a lawsuit because they have less money than the people they are up against. At that moment, that was the particular strategy of Marvel’s lawyers, for which they were sanctioned in court and admonished because they were trying to drive up Steve’s legal bills with meaningless procedure in the hopes he would have to drop the case. The judge fined them for doing this, but Steve still couldn’t cover his legal fees. So Dean Mullaney [of Eclipse Comics], who was trying to get his first comics going, suggested doing a benefit comic. I somehow volunteered to assemble it and Jack Kirby offered to draw the lead story. We needed a back-up series, and the first person I went to was Sergio. I told him about the project, and before I was halfway finished telling him about it, he went to his drawer of series that had not been published and told me, “Take anything you want. If it’s not right, I’ll draw something special.” I said, “This is the per-

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The cover art to DC Comics Resents #16 (1989), a Wonder Woman/Groo team-up.

No, we made that up— it’s actually a convention sketch commissioned from Sergio Aragonés by Joel Thingvall (check out Joel’s Wonder Woman art gallery at www. wonderthing.com).

Groo © 2005 Sergio Aragonés.

Wonder Woman © 2005 DC Comics.

Wheel of Misfortune An Aragonés splash from House of Mystery #175 (1968). Courtesy of Mike Burkey. © 2005 DC Comics.

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Ease on Down the Road to Limbo A page from DC Comics’ unpublished The Wiz (1978), written by Mark Evanier and illustrated by Dan Spiegle.

The Wiz © 1978 Motown and Universal Pictures.

Art © 1978 DC Comics.

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Sergio Aragonés’ stand for creator’s

hnson Dan Jo

to treat the material.”

rights over Groo led him to walk away from main-

The plug was pulled on The Wiz when DC got wind

stream comics in the mid-1970s. A project that was

that the film was not going to be the blockbuster the

affected by his departure was a comics adaptation of

studio was hoping it would be. For Evanier, The Wiz

The Wiz—the “reimagining” of The Wizard of Oz with

being canned wasn’t too big of a disappointment. Even

an all-black cast, including Diana Ross and Michael

though the project was aborted, some good did come

Jackson—which he was slated to do with Mark Evanier

out of it. “One of the motives I had for doing the book

for DC Comics. Evanier wrote the adaptation’s script

was, Dan wanted to work for DC, and I thought he should

and replacement artist Dan Spiegle penciled the entire

work for DC,” says Evanier. “The fact that Orlando

book and inked around 22 pages before the project

wanted him on this project was a sign that I wanted

was cancelled.

to encourage. Orlando called me first and asked me

Had The Wiz been released, it would have been pub-

what I thought the problems would be if we called [The

lished in a magazine format with photos and related

Wiz] off. I told him, ‘I can’t speak for Dan, but if I were

articles. DC hoped that The Wiz would reach a broader

you, I would offer him a lot of other work in

audience beyond the one that was buying super-hero

exchange for stopping in the middle of the project after

comics at the time. There was even some talk of selling

he had cleared his schedule to do this book.’ DC gave

the magazine as a souvenir book in the lobby of the

Dan another comic to draw the next day, and he

theaters that showed the movie.

worked pretty steadily for DC for years after.”

Originally The Wiz adaptation was going to be written

by Len Wein, drawn by Sergio Aragonés, and edited by Joe Orlando. When Wein left the project because of other writing commitments, Aragonés suggested that DC hire

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Mark Evanier to write it. When Aragonés vacated the project, the only thing that kept Evanier interested was Orlando’s suggestion to bring Spiegle on board. Spiegle, who had worked with Evanier previously on Scooby-Doo, the film and television adaptations he had done for Dell and Gold Key. Orlando got a copy of the screenplay before Evanier did, and he was the one who noted what parts of the screenplay should be omitted for the adaptation and what parts should be played up. “Joe and I had this one-hour long phone conversation where he read me his notes and I wrote them down, and they were my

Even though DC decided not to publish its adaptation of The Wiz, one of the movie’s stars, Michael Jackson, eventually danced his way into comic books. Captain Eo, a 17-minute 3-D movie starring the King of Pop, was produced in 1987 by George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola for exclusive showings in Disney theme parks. Eclipse Comics published a 3-D adaptation of the film, illustrated by Thomas Yeates and released

blueprints,” says Evanier. “The result was one of those

in two formats: as a traditional comic book and in an

comics where I felt that I didn’t have any of myself

original art-sized souvenir edition sold exclusively at Disney

invested in it. If anything, it was Joe’s choice of how

gift shops.

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© 1987 Walt Disney Corp.

was considered an excellent replacement because of

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guest editorial by daniel best Gods and Warriors

Superman vs. Spider-Man The Secret Artist Revealed

Nearly 30 years after its publication, Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man (1976) remains the super-hero crossover of all time.

Editor’s Note: In researching his forthcoming biography of artist team supreme Ross Andru and Mike Esposito, journalist and teacher Daniel Best discovered a mystery that, quite frankly, I initially didn’t realize was a mystery—Andru was not the only penciler on the legendary first crossover between the premier super-heroes of DC and Marvel Comics. In an impressive display of journalism, Best traipses through a web of creators to reveal the full story of this historic comic-book event, and he’d like to get that . . . off his chest. —M.E.

Superman © 2005 DC Comics.

Spider-Man © 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

The above quote was all well and good for John Ford; however, at times the legend becomes the truth and the discovery of the actual facts becomes all the more harder. After all, memory is a tenuous thing at best.

In early 2004, Mike Esposito and I were talking about the Andru and Esposito book that I was in the process of preparing. We’d spent a considerable amount of time talking about various aspects of the pair’s career and the artists that Mike had worked with over the years. As is the norm whenever Mike and myself speak, a lot of the conversation was taken up by subjects other than comic books, and it was during one of those conversations that Mike made an offhand comment about the Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man treasury edition that saw the light in of day in 1976. Mike’s comments were about how his art partner, Ross Andru, had made the book into something more than a comic book, and into an experience that was almost cinematic. To me that was an opening to discuss the book and I started by asking if Mike had ever been considered as an inker for the project, considering his history with both Ross and Marvel and DC (at the time very few artists had worked on both Superman and SpiderMan—Ross Andru and Mike Esposito were amongst them). Little did I know that I was about to open a can of worms that’d take nearly a year to close.

Mike instantly came back with the following: “I was supposed to ink the first Superman/Spider-Man crossover. However, I got into a big argument with Marv Wolfman, who was the editor at Marvel at the time. They kept changing editors; Roy Thomas was the editor at one stage, then Marv, then Len Wein. I got a call from Sol Harrison at DC and he said, ‘Mike, we want to team you and Ross up together. We’re going to do a crossover with Spider-Man and Superman and since you guys were known as Andru and Esposito up here we figure it’d be perfect for you guys to do it.’ And it was all set to go, and then Marv Wolfman, and I’m not doing this verbatim, I’m paraphrasing what happened, he called them up and said, ‘You can’t have both guys.’

“It was like they were trading ball players from one team to another. He said, ‘You can have Ross but you can’t have Mike, or you can have Mike but you can’t

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have Ross. You can’t have both of them.’ So Sol Harrison called me up and he was very apologetic because he really enjoyed the idea of having the two guys from years ago coming together on the project. He said, ‘It looks like you’re not going to do it. I’m sorry, Mike.

It looks like Dick Giordano is going to be put on it.’”

So far, so good? Well, no. For the record, and before we go any further, Mike only has good words to say about Dick: “Dick Giordano did a good job.

It’s a very nice book.”

However, this is only the start of the legend/fact part of the story. I then contacted Marv Wolfman and included a copy of Mike’s comments for clarification as the journalist inside of me knows that in order to get all the facts, you have to at least ask anyone and everyone that’s being mentioned in your story. If they tell you to take a hike, well at least you’ve asked, so they can’t then come back at you. So I emailed Marv.

I’ve never met Marv, but I have emailed him more than once and he’s always been a good guy to me.

He’s been friendly, courteous, and more than helpful, which is why I was taken aback slightly when this reply came in, only a few hours after my email left. Marv’s reply read as follows: “Mike’s quote from Sol is wrong. I was on the Marvel black-andwhite books at the time, not the color comics. I had absolutely nothing to do with deciding who was on the Superman/Spider-Man book.

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Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man. Superman © 2005 DC Comics.

Spider-Man © 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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“Len Wein was the editor, as he will tell you because I had to hold him back when he nearly strangled the guy from Cadence Corp. who told us about the team-up and that Len, as the Marvel editor, would not have any say in the matter. I may have later inherited the project when Len left Marvel, but I don’t remember. At any rate, I know the team had been selected without us, and that the idea, as little as I remember of it now, was that there would be a Marvel penciler and a DC inker on it so I doubt that Mike would have been considered, despite his years with Ross, because they wanted people from both companies working on each step of it. Gerry Conway was the writer because he had written both Superman and Spider-Man, the only one to do it at that point.”

There was more, but I’ve decided not to let that go to air, so to speak. Marv might have been having a bad day, or perhaps he felt that I (or Mike) was accusing him of something that he’d clearly not done. As it was I emailed an instant apology to Marv and as he’d commented that he wished people would get their facts right, I assured him that I was indeed working hard to get the facts down pat, and that I’d not be letting anything go to print without everyone involved giving their side of the story. Marv replied that I perhaps should contact Len Wein and ask for his side of things. I thanked Marv, apologized again, and contacted Len and included everything I’d gathered thus far. Len had a read of it and came back with the following: “I’m pretty much with Marv on this one. I was the Marvel editor-in-chief at the time, not Marv, who had nothing at all to do with the Superman/SpiderMan book other than saving then Marvel Publisher Al Landau’s life when I threw myself at him, determined to rip out his throat, after Landau told me when I complained about losing Ross Andru’s penciling services off the Amazing Spider-Man title for a couple of months, that, despite my position as Marvel E-i-C and also being the current writer on Amazing Spider-Man, what went on in the S/S-M team-up book was, quote, ‘None of your f*cking business!’

“Nobody in Marvel editorial had anything whatsoever to do with determining who worked on the Superman/Spider-Man book and, to the very best of my memory, Mike Esposito’s name never came up.

And, frankly, I doubt it would have. As mentioned, the idea was to make this one-shot a true cross-company

The Amazing Spider-Man #160 (Sept. 1976), from the Wein/Andru/ Esposito era of the book; cover by John Romita. © 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Stan Lee (top) and Carmine Infantino circa 1976, from the inside front cover to Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man. Photos © 1976 Marvel Comics Group and DC Comics.

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book. That meant splitting the creative services between the two companies. Thus, the writing came from DC (Gerry Conway), the penciling from Marvel (Ross Andru), the inking from DC (Dick Giordano), the coloring from Marvel (Glynis Oliver), and the lettering from DC (Gaspar Saladino). Even the cover was laid out by DC’s then-publisher, artist Carmine Infantino, penciled by Ross, and inked by Dick, and colored

by Glynis.

“Despite what whatever line of bull Sol Harrison might have fed Mike (Sol had his own agenda at the time, having been passed over for the publisher position), I don’t believe for an instant it ever happened.

The best I could imagine was Ross (always a wonderful man) suggesting his buddy Mike as inker and being overruled for the reasons mentioned above.

“Also, it should be noted that Mike inked the two issues of Amazing Spider-Man that Ross missed while penciling the crossover. The fill-in penciler for those issues was Sal Buscema.” 1 I thanked Len and promised that he could have a look at the final draft of this article in case there might be some comments he’d rather not allow see the light of day.

TH-TH-THAT’S SOL, FOLKS! So, there it was. My theory is that Mike had been asked to ink the book by Sol Harrison, and had then been told, again by Sol, that the editors at Marvel had refused to give permission. My best guess is that everyone is right—the events that Mike, Marv, and Len recounted all happened, however it more than likely happened like this: Ross Andru is asked to pencil the crossover and elects Mike as his inker of choice. This wouldn’t have come as a surprise as Mike and Ross went back to when they were kids, they’d published together, they’d drawn and written together, they even got married at roughly the same time. Ross and Mike did pretty much everything together, and Mike’s inks did complement Ross pencils, and Ross must have felt that on a project of such magnitude he might need a sympathetic inker, and, knowing how lucrative a project this would be, wanted to include Mike. So Ross asks Sol Harrison who then calls Mike and tells him how everyone at DC wants to reunite the Andru/ Esposito art team for this book. Now, as Len recounts, Sol had more than a few hidden agendas at that stage, perhaps Sol did indeed ask the editors at Marvel only to be told no. More likely he didn’t, and was told who the creative team would be: Gerry Conway (at that stage the only man to have written both Superman and Spider-Man for any length of time), Ross Andru (the only man to have drawn both characters at that stage),

KING ARTHUR and the Knights of the Round Table:

Passed Into Legend

Redondo, the Art King Magical page 3 of Nestor Redondo’s unpublished masterpiece. All King Arthur

by

Morris Brian K. g by Gerry

-checkin (with fact d Manuel Auad) n a y a Conw

original art pages in this article are courtesy of Manuel Auad and Dave Karlen. © 1975 DC Comics.

Chances are that if Arthur Pendragon truly existed, he probably didn’t look like Richard Burton, Richard Harris, or even Graham Chapman. Maybe the tales of he and his knights are an amalgam of folk tales embellished through centuries of retelling, but we may have no way of ever knowing. However, like Beowulf, The Iliad, and The Odyssey, the tales that remain comprise a classic story of sword and sorcery to say nothing of romance, intrigue, and betrayal.

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Redondo’s water-

Gerry Conway broke into comics writing for the

of MGM’s Wonderful Wizard of Oz by Roy Thomas,

colored front

DC Comics horror books when he was only 15 and

John Buscema, and Tony DeZuniga and Superman

and back covers

soon moved over to Marvel. By the time he left in

vs. the Amazing Spider-Man (written by Conway).

to the Arthurian adaptation (we lament that our black-and-white format doesn’t allow their color

1975, he had written many of Marvel’s top titles

As Conway recalls, DC actively sought new projects

such as Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, Thor,

to fill these oversized books. “I’m not sure if it was

Daredevil, and Tomb of Dracula while still in his

[editor] Joe Orlando who suggested it to me or whether

early twenties. Conway jumped to DC to write and

I suggested it to him, but we talked of doing an

edit existing titles such as Kamandi and Tarzan,

adaptation of Le Morte d’Arthur.” Originally published

revive books like Blackhawk and All-Star Comics, as

publication).

well as create new titles such as Freedom Fighters, © 1975 DC Comics.

Steel, Man-Bat, The Secret Society of Super-Villains, and many more.

Redondo ably

For many years, DC experimented with different

succeeded Bernie

formats for their comics including reprint volumes

Wrightson as the artist

of 80 and 100 pages as well as the “tabloid” size of

on Swamp Thing, as

magazine.1 These oversized (10" by 13 3⁄4") comics

seen in this panel from

began as showcases for reprints from DC’s library and

page 18 of issue #13.

eventually moved into presenting original material,

Swamp Thing © 2005 DC Comics.

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such as the first DC/Marvel crossovers: an adaptation

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“The Comics b y Tom art Savant” Stew Editor’s note: Artwork for this feature was contributed by Michael Arnold, Terry Austin, John Eury, David Hamilton, Heritage Comics, Joe Jusko, Michel Maillot, Bob McLeod, and Jim Warden, to whom BACK ISSUE extends its gratitude and a frothy pint of mead.

“Why we didn’t just create an entirely new character, I don’t know. . .”

In the late ’60s, DC Comics, as a whole, must have sat down and sighed. After releasing a spate of innovative titles (almost all of which had been cancelled within two years) and luring an influx of new talent (Neal Adams, Denny O’Neil, Dick Giordano), and even the go-go checks (!), nothing had worked. Like the nerd with the new haircut, DC had somehow failed to be cool, and didn’t seem to understand why. It was now 1969, and Marvel Comics, in what would have been unthinkable only ten years before, was about to leave DC in its dust, ready to take over the top spot from DC. Marvel had the drive, the talent, and some of the hippest characters in comics (I mean, really, Superman seemed like someone’s dad trying to be cool at your birthday party), and they had the college crowd with them. That new base could be a demanding bunch of cusses. Roy Thomas, Marvel writer and fan turned pro

Blacklight Barbarian

who wrote Conan, man and boy, for over 30 years should

Remember those garishly groovy blacklight

know. Roy?

posters of the 1970s? Here’s a Conan poster,

“About that time, 1969 I think, we were getting letters

amazingly illustrated by Barry (Windsor-) Smith.

asking us to do a Conan comic. Well, I’d read a couple of the books, with the Frazetta covers, I knew who he was.”

© 2005 Conan Properties.

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Stan liked the name. . .”

Thongor really is a Stan Lee kind of name. It sounds like a villain from an early Marvel monster mag. Roy had gotten the okay from Goodman to go ahead all right, but to do it on the cheap (yep, sounds like Goodman). Roy had $150 to offer for the rights to the mighty Thongor (really, no disrespect to Lin Carter, but Thongor was just not one for the ages), so he made the call to Carter’s agent, who gave him an “I’ll get back to you.” Carter promised his agent would get back to him. Still, no call. Roy again: “Well, it wasn’t much money, even then it wasn’t much. Which is why the agent dragged his feet. When Martin Goodman said $150, he meant $150, not $151!”

Roy started to investigate the field a little more, and one night, stopping by the newsstand on the way to the subway, he picked up another Conan novel. In the back it had an address for Glen Lord, literary agent for the Robert E. Howard estate, Pasadena, Texas. Roy took a shot. Why not? He wrote Lord, relating what he planned and offering $200 for the rights. I’m surprised Martin Goodman didn’t hear Roy’s typewriter upping the offer all the way across town. Roy explained that it was a great chance to get more exposure for Conan, and also that he didn’t really have any room to negotiate (Goodman was probably already getting a rope ready). He heard back quickly. Lord had accepted. Sorry, Thongor, you’ll have to wait a couple years more for your own comic.

Great. “Now all I had to do was figure how to get the extra $50 past Martin Goodman.” One way? Hire a cheap writer, or at least one that could cut his rate if Goodman kicked. For Roy that meant writing it himself. “I hadn’t figured on writing it in the beginning. I was thinking Gerry Conway maybe. . .” It was $50 that changed Roy Also Gil Kane, one of Marvel’s (and DC’s) most popular

Thomas’ life, starting him on a journey that lasted over

artists, was a huge Conan fan, and owned all the Gnome

200 issues (yes, I know they weren’t consecutive), two years

Press books from the 1950s’ Conan revival (which Roy

of a comic strip, record albums, a paid consultancy on the

later bought, and still owns, BTW), and he was interested

first Conan movie, and five drafts of the screenplay for the

in Conan of Cimmeria, so why not?

second. That 50 bucks would also change the life of some-

Stan Lee, editor-in-chief, agreed. Roy wrote a memo to Marvel’s publisher and owner, Martin Goodman: “It was

one else, Barry Windsor-Smith (then just Barry Smith; for history’s sake, that’s how I’ll refer to him throughout).

the only thing I did that he ever mentioned to me in the Goodman had approved. They had a budget! Line ’em

John the Expensive, Barry the Not So Much

up! So Roy started right away to secure the rights to . . .

“Stan and I thought that John Buscema would be per-

two, three times I ran into him! ‘That was some memo!’”

Lin Carter’s Thongor. Thongor? Roy:

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fect [for Conan]. He’d been reading the books, and was

“I figured that Conan, being as popular as he was,

ecstatic: ‘It’s not super-heroes! When do we start?’ He was

would be out of our price league. I’d read Thongor and

ready.” Except for that $50 and Martin Goodman again.

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Martin evidently did notice that his mandated $150 had

fans waited for what they figured

been raised by a full third. John Buscema? Great artist . . .

would be another desecration. They

Roy had worked with him on The Avengers and Sub-Mariner

shouldn’t have worried.

—he’d be perfect. Except for his page rate. John was at

Roy Thomas was probably the

the time too well paid (if that term can be applied to any

best man for the job. He approached

comics creator besides Spawn’s Todd McFarlane), he was

the work with respect: “I really liked

at the top of Marvel’s page rate. Better to have someone

Howard’s prose. By then I’d read all

a mite lower, like at the bottom. Like maybe that British kid.

Howard’s paperbacks. I wanted to keep

The one that drew that issue of X-Men [#53] on a park

as much Howard as I could.” He made

bench and then got deported. Smith.

sure that the name “Robert E. Howard”

Barry Smith was Roy’s second choice, having worked

was credited in every story, and that

with the young Englishman on several projects before

each time an actual story was used,

(including a proposed team of Red Raven, Bucky, and

the story and Howard were again

Quicksilver that never got off the ground; order the CBA

credited. Roy created sort of a code:

Collection Vol. 1 for more info—no, I don’t get a cut).

When he used a Howard story and

Barry was back in England after having been working at

made only minor changes, the credits

Marvel for a year or so without the benefit of a green

would read “Adapted from the story”;

card. He had been deported, but not forgotten. Barry said

when he added to it greatly, it would

yes. Roy sent him a stack of the Lancer Conan paperbacks.

say “freely adapted”; and when he

Barry started studying, and Roy worked on his approach

made up a stor y completely, it

to Howard. At the time, drawing with the dynamism of

would read “Based on the character

Kirby was a Marvel style, and Barry was known as some-

created by REH.” This was at a time

thing of a Jack Kirby clone. Here’s Barry: “In my case there

when a lot of Howard’s fans felt there

was no problem—I had an idée fixe that comics were Kirby

was a movement to divorce Howard

and, in so drawing a comic, I drew it, to the best of my

from Conan, to diminish the impor-

young abilities, as if I was Jack Kirby . . . real drawing was

tance of the original stories to build

academic, but comics were Kirby.”

up the “character.” Roy didn’t have to

Would Barry’s Jack Kirby mannerisms work on a Howard

do that Howard credit—it wasn’t in

character? Roy? “That was one of the reasons I chose

the agreement with Glen Lord. He did

him! I really liked the Jack Kirby influence in him, and it

it out of respect for the stories, and

would help the Marvel readers!” At that time, Roy didn’t

for Howard. The fans noticed. But they

have the rights to the Conan stories, just the right to use

could still find things to complain

Conan himself. So he wrote up an original plot for the first

about . . . hey, they’re fans.

issue, trying to keep the Howard flavor, and sent it off to England to his new artist.

But what about those Howard readers? You know that some REH fans can be very . . . passionate.

Roy: “Oh, yes! I know it! No matter what I did, I got letters.” Fans are very protective of ones they believed have

So, what to call the newest title in the Mighty Marvel pantheon? “I called it Conan the Barbarian, which hadn’t been used by Howard per se, but had been used as the title of one of the Gnome hardbacks, so it

Were you stuck on

wouldn’t be as familiar to the Lancer readers.”

Conan in the 1970s?

been wronged, and they had cause to believe that Howard’s

Now that the name of the comic was set, the artist

Two barbarian peel-

legacy, Conan in particular, had been grievously mistreat-

was in place, and Roy had chosen himself as writer (the

offs from the Marvel

ed under the stewardship (some say “heavy hand”) of author

poor guy), one more approach problem had to be ironed

Sticker Set.

L. Sprague de Camp. De Camp had started editing the

out: Should Marvel use the Miller/Clark/de Camp Conan

Howard Conan stories in the ’50s, then began the prac-

outline? (Note here: The Miller/Clark outline is something

tice of “converting” non-Conan Howard stories into tales

devised by a couple of Conan fans in the ’30s, with a few

of Conan. It was a practice that many Howard fans viewed

notes from Howard. They went and put all the Conan

unsympathetically. When they heard the news, many REH

stories in order, roughly outlining Conan’s life, then it was

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© 1975 Marvel Comics Group © 2005 Conan Properties.

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The first Howard story adapted to the comics was not a Conan story, but one Howard set originally in ancient Ireland: “The Grey God Passes.” Here’s Roy: “De Camp had made a practice, in the books, of adapting non-Conan stories and making Conans out of them.

He did that in Tales of Conan. I thought de Camp had a good idea there, so I suggested to Glen that I be allowed to do the same thing in the comics.” A system was worked out where, if Thomas wanted to adapt a certain Conan story, Marvel would pay a sum of money, “a pittance of filthy lucre,” Roy calls it, and Roy would write his adaptation and send it across the pond to Barry Smith. The first instance of this wasn’t a Conan story, but it was too good a story to pass up. The result was “Twilight of the Grim Grey God” in issue #3, one of the best of the first

later revised by de Camp to include the sto-

These Conan character studies (shared with

ries he added. This is a real fan thing to do,

us by Bob McLeod)

like putting all the Star Trek episodes in order of Stardate . . . I know, please, send no lists.)

show why John Buscema

Roy decided he would. “These days they’ve

was Stan Lee and Roy

packed the timeline so tight, if Conan stubbed

Thomas’ first—but

his toe you’d have to write a story about it.”

originally unattainable

How would Conan be aged? “I decided that

—choice to draw

each year of the comic would be a year in

Conan the Barbarian.

Conan’s life”—start with him young, in his teens, then progress to the first story in the de

© 2005 Conan Properties.

Camp chronology, “The Tower of the Elephant.”

Marvel’s Conan #1 would not be an adaptation, but would serve to introduce the character and let both artist and writer get the feel of him, then they would hit the ground running with the first Howard story. Maybe.

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special feature

Captions by

ry Michael Eu

Here’s a secret: We’d originally planned a

Sandman “Pro2Pro” between Neil

Gaiman and Karen Berger for this issue, but Neil’s busy schedule delayed it to a future, undetermined ish. But this mesmerizing Morpheus sketch—commissioned from

Bill

Sienkiewicz at the 1999 San Diego

Comic-Con by its contributor Jay Caldwell— was just too astonishing to postpone. © 2005 DC Comics.

Writer Roy Thomas and artist

Barry Windsor-Smith

collaborated on the barbarian tale “The Sword and the Sorcerers,” featuring

Starr the Slayer, for Marvel’s

Chamber of Darkness #4 (Apr. 1970)—published six months before Conan the Barbarian #1. It was reprinted in Conan #16.

Original art scan courtesy of Jeff Jatras. © 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Our friends at Heritage Comics recently auctioned some remarkable items from the collection of Elfquest creators Richard and Wendy Pini, and we’re

Blackmark illo

by Gil Kane (left) and a 1980 Tor sketch (below) by Joe Kubert.

Lastly, another Heritage gem: Tarzan by Jeff Jones (inset). honored to share two of them with you here: an undated

Blackmark © 2005 Gil Kane estate.

Tor © 2005 Joe Kubert.

Tarzan © 2005 ERB, Inc.

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Remember

“Weirdworld”,

Marvel’s 1970s’ series “in the fantasy tradition of Tolkien”? This sporadically published storyline started as a backup in the 1976 black-and-white mag Marvel Super Action #1 (starring the Punisher, of all characters!) before spinning off into Marvel Premiere #38 (1977), where this extraordinary

Mike Ploog and Alex Niño appeared. Original page by

art courtesy of Heritage Comics. © 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

We couldn’t celebrate fantasy comics of the 1970s and 1980s without including

Elfquest! From the Heritage Comics

auction of items from the Pini collection comes this wonderful

Wendy Pini-drawn original cover to

Marvel/Epic’s Elfquest #2. (And we promise, BACK ISSUE will eventually cover this enchanting series and its creators.) © 2005 Warp Graphics.

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Suydam’s “When Giants Walk the Earth,” the 2005 Spectrum Magazine Gold Medal winner.

Unless otherwise noted, all artwork accompanying this interview appears courtesy of the artist and Renee Witterstaetter.

by Dan Johnson

conducted on March 10, 2005

© 2005 Arthur Suydam.

interview

Arthur Suydam, a protégé of EC legend Joe Orlando (among others), is an artist’s artist who

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has chosen to avoid the mainstream for most of his extensive career. Although he describes himself as someone who has always been on the fringe of the comics industry, Suydam has nonetheless won over a number of mainstream readers with his work on such series as Heavy Metal’s Mudwogs, Epic Illustrated’s Cholly and Flytrap, and a collection of cuttingedge short stories. If you haven’t heard Suydam’s name mentioned in a while, you may not be alone. His absence from the comics scene is, oddly enough, intentional, the result of his hard work and singular devotion to his art. Over the years, many of the projects that Suydam has worked on have, for a variety of reasons, not made it to fruition. They are now emerging, ready to be unveiled to his eager fans. Suydam is finding the spotlight as he begins new chapters for some of his most famous creations—Mudwogs is back in Heavy Metal, while Cholly and Flytrap have a new home at Image. He has released a series of new The Art of the Barbarian books that tie in very well with the theme of this edition of BACK ISSUE —Dan Johnson

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DAN JOHNSON: Let’s discuss your new book: What can you tell us about The Art of the Barbarian?

Beginnings:

ARTHUR SUYDAM: I am quite proud of Art of the Barbarian.

Short stories for Joe Orlando at DC Comics (1980s)

I put a lot of work into it, and there were many hurdles

Milestones:

along the way. It started off as a sketch book, and ended

Heavy Metal / Mudwogs / Cholly and Flytrap / The Art of the Barbarian: Conan, Tarzan, Death Dealer / 2005 Spectrum Magazine Gold Medal winner for artistic excellence

up more as a fine art book. Currently it is softcover, but there are plans to do an expanded hardcover later on, which will truly make it an art book. It has more than 200 illustrations

Works in Progress:

in it already, with eight pull-out plates printed on archival

Cholly and Flytrap (Image Comics) / Mudwogs monthly in Heavy Metal / as-yet-untitled creator-owned barbarian story / The Alien Encounters Poster Book / The Femme Fatale Art of Arthur Suydam (Eva Ink and Image Comics) / Bedtime Stories for the Incarcerated (Last Gasp) / giclees from Heroic Fine Art / The Fantastic Art of Arthur Suydam (Vanguard Productions) / The Art of the Barbarian 2006 Calendar

paper. It features a lot of the barbarian art I have been working on over the years, and most of it is new material. The book contains some sepia studies from a Conan figurine set that I worked on a few years ago, as well as unpublished artwork from a barbarian book, my own, that I will publish later this year with Eva Ink. Additionally, I did some artwork on the Death Dealer, a barbarian character I illustrated a

Cyberspace:

few years back. That job was colored by computer. Now

www.evaink.com

readers for the first time can see what the artwork looked like before it got lost in the coloring. The Art of the Barbarian book also features work from Tarzan and other Conan artwork. I’ve been asked by the publisher to do a second one, The Art of the Barbarian Book Two. I hear Roy Thomas might be involved with that.

I don’t know, it remains to be seen.

2003 Conan

JOHNSON: As I understand

figure studies for Dark Horse Comics.

Conan © 2005 Conan Properties.

Art © 2005 Arthur Suydam.

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Conan series. It is almost as if he wrote those stories himself.

JOHNSON: What about Tarzan? Are you a big fan of that character?

SUYDAM: Yeah, the artists who worked on Tarzan and came before me inspired me, and I really enjoyed the early Johnny Weissmuller movies. I have an affinity for that character.

JOHNSON: Art of the Barbarian marks a huge return for you to the comics industry. It seemed like you fell off the radars there for a while, and some folks even thought you had gotten out of the business. That was not the case though, was it? From what I gather, it sounds like you were working on a few projects that readers just never got the chance to see.

SUYDAM: Right. I was never gone. I worked in film for a while. I am also a musician, and that plays an important part in my life. In fact, I was able to mesh the two worlds in December [2004] when my publisher sponsored a fundraiser for the Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art in Manhattan. I got my band together, made up of topnotch musicians who have played with Pat Benatar, James Taylor, Bruce Springsteen, etc., as have I, and we rocked the house. Ha! Or at least folks seemed to have a good time.

it, you worked on an unpublished Conan graphic novel at

This rare 1997

one point with Roy. What can you tell us about that?

Conan illo by Suydam was

SUYDAM: Oh, yeah. Let’s see here, a few years ago I did

unpublished until

a project collaborating with Roy. We got the thing all fin-

2005’s The Art of

ished, and up to Marvel for scanning. This happened to be

the Barbarian.

right around the time of the big crash in comic books.

The book was being scanned right around the time Marvel

Conan © 2005 Conan Properties.

Art © 2005 Arthur Suydam.

decided to fire all of their staff including the editor of the Conan project, I guess. A lot of people were bitter over being

(right) A boss photo of Bruce Springsteen, Arthur Suydam, and a friend.

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fired and someone apparently, on their way out, must

But, yes, I would say that is probably my history, and

have decided to pick up the artwork for that story and take

my entire career, in comics. I have not sought the spot-

it as some kind of severance benefit. Anyway, it seems to

light. I basically always work on projects on the fringe

have vanished.

and I avoid working on characters that are mainstream.

JOHNSON: Ouch. Sorry. Back to Roy—he’s the go-to man

At least up until now. I am a creator and a writer as well

if you want to talk barbarians.

as an artist, and I always enjoyed writing my own stories

SUYDAM: Roy is the most knowledgeable guy of the

and characters.

barbarian genre, Conan specifically, that I have ever known.

I also worked on the first issue of a science fiction and

It is amazing how much he knows, down to every detail

fantasy magazine, Forbidden Zone, but the company was

about every character that was ever written about in the

a dot.com enterprise that unfortunately went down the

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