Comic Book Artist #20 by TwoMorrows Publishing

JR SR & JR JR: THE ROMITAS REMEMBER

No.20 July 2002

$6.95 In The US

SPECIAL FATHER & SONS ISSUE

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TwoMorrows.Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics. (& LEGO! ) TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

S P O T L I G H T I N G

NUMBER 20

T H O S E

R A M B U N C T I O U S

R O M I T A S !

CELEBRATING THE LIVES & WORK OF THE GREAT CARTOONISTS, WRITERS & EDITORS

JULY 2002

FATHER & SON: THOSE RAMBUNCTIOUS ROMITA MEN CBA ROUNDTABLE: JOHN SR. & JOHN JR. AND THE ART OF GRACE An exhaustive interview with John Sr. and John Jr. on everything from Marvel’s early days to Sept. 11, 2001 ....2 A FEMININE PERSPECTIVE: VIRGINIA AND THE JOHNS Courtesy of the forthcoming book, I Have To Live With This Guy!, Senior’s wife and Junior’s Mom talks! ........46

Editor/Designer JON B. COOKE Publisher

TWOMORROWS JOHN & PAM MORROW

FATHER & SONS: IN EASY COMPANY WITH THE KUBERTS We visit Joe and the boys at the Kubert School to discuss the past, present and future of comics ............FLIP US!

Cover Art JOHN ROMITA, JR., pencils JOHN ROMITA, SR., inks

Cover: With pencils by John Jr. and inks by John Sr., the Romitas draw us a nifty, all-new cover starring some of the best known Marvel characters drawn by father and son. Art ©2002 John Jr. & John Sr. Romita. Characters ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Above: Great Romita collaboration featuring good ol’ Spidey. Courtesy of JR Sr.©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Cover Color NICK DRAGOTTA

Please send all letters of comment, articles and artwork to: Jon B. Cooke, Editor, Comic Book Artist, P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892-0204 Phone: (401) 783-1669 • Fax: (401) 783-1287 • E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com

Issue Transcriber JON B. KNUTSON Editorial credits on flip side

COMIC BOOK ARTIST™ is published 10 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. Jon B. Cooke, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892-0204 USA • 401-783-1669 • Fax: 401-783-1287. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT the editorial office. Single issues: $9 postpaid ($11 Canada, $12 elsewhere). Six-issue subscriptions: $36 US, $66 Canada, $72 elsewhere. All characters © their respective owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © their respective authors. ©2002 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Cover acknowledgements: Art ©2002 John Romita, Jr. & John Romita, Sr. All characters ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. First Printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

John Romita Sr. & Jr.

A roundtable conversation with the talented father and Conducted Conductedby byJon JonB.B.Cooke Cooke Transcribed TranscribedbybyJon JonB.B.Knutson Knutson When I think of that class father and son team, the John Romitas, I think the term “Old School.” Not that their work isn’t modern or incredibly effective—it is—but there’s a quiet dignity about the guys on a personal level that makes me think of the good, old days when people treated others with proper respect and deference. Senior and Junior (as we designate them in the following interview) not only possess a refreshing degree of modesty and, well, humility, but they’re talented as all get out and really nice human beings to boot. The following interview took place at John Sr. and Virginia Romita’s Floral Park, New York home on January 14, 2002 (which was edited by Sr. and approved by Jr.), while John Jr. was visiting from his San Diego, California digs. The Romitas treated Ye Ed not only to four hours of uproarious conversation, but Virginia also whipped up an authentic and delicious Italian pasta dinner. To set the stage, Ye Ed traveled by car over the Throg’s Neck Bridge to the Romitas, which affords a grand profile of Manhattan where a heart-wrenching void is glaringly evident in the skyline of the island’s southern tip, a grim reminder of a terrible year. Comic Book Artist: [To Senior]Where’s your family from? Senior: I was born in Brooklyn, raised there most of my young life until we moved to Queens. I went to a Manhattan high school, which was the School of Industrial Art. It’s a very innovative approach for a school, as they had practicing commercial artists on staff, instead of just theorists teaching art. They had an illustrator teaching illustration, two great illustrators teaching illustration— magazine and book illustration— and there were advertising artists conducting design courses. We studied mechanical drawing, photography, sculpture. When I got out of school at 17, I got into the commercial art field, and all the things I used to think were a waste of my time—sculpture, photography, mechanical drawing, lettering, sign-&show card. All the things I thought I wanted to do—comic strips like Terry and the Pirates, Norman Rockwell illustrating— I thought the other courses were delaying me. Then I realized, when I got into the

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and the Art of Grace son Romita on their careers as top comic book artists

business, every single day of my career—to this day—I call on all those other things I learned—lettering, mechanical drawing, perspective—all of them. Even sculpture! When I first started, I used to sculpt my main character’s head out of clay to use as reference. Junior: I didn’t know that! Senior: I felt so inadequate that I wouldn’t know how to do a three-quarter back view, or a top view looking down, or looking up, so I used to make an actual clay sculpture—I’m talking about inconsequential characters, like a Western hero or female heroine, and I needed them for two or three stories, and then I gave it up, because it lost me valuable time. I said the hell with that! It felt like such a crutch, but I also felt I had to do it. I had to learn how to do a down-view or an up-view. I was used to doing pin-ups! CBA: Where are your parents originally from? Senior: My father was born in Italy, in a town called Bari, “the heel of the boot.” It’s an Italian province. My mother was born in the United States, in Manhattan. CBA: What was her maiden name? Senior: Her maiden name was Agostino. My maternal grandparents came from Calabria, and after they moved to Manhattan, my mother was born, and then they moved to Brooklyn. CBA: How old was your father when he came over? Senior: He was about 17, I think. He was on his own, the oldest of about ten kids, and in those days of the Depression, people sometimes went out on their own at a young age, just to avoid their parents having another mouth to feed in the house. So, he came over to the States on his own, went straight to Gary, Indiana, and started working in a speakeasy when he was 19! CBA: Did he have an apprenticeship or any kind of trade when he came from Italy? Senior: No, he had lived on a farm. Junior: I’ll always remember to thank Grandpa when I see him for not staying in Gary, Indiana. Senior: Yes! [laughter] He was always threatening to take us out of town! He—his name was Vito—loved small towns. He wanted to open up a bakery near Albany, and envisioned me as a bakery delivery man. Junior: Thank him for not doing that, too! Senior: Thank your grandmother! My mother said, “No, sir! We’re not moving to Albany. We’re going to stay here!” CBA: Was Vito entrepreneurial? Senior: He was a very skilled baker, but couldn’t make a living at it. There just wasn’t enough money or weren’t enough jobs in Brooklyn at the time, so he became a furniture finisher, but in a bizarre twist, he ended up in a casket factory. National Casket, in Long Island City, doing this beautiful lacquer, high-polished shine on caskets. They were some quality caskets. Junior: Didn’t he work on Babe Ruth’s casket? Senior: I think he did, yes. At least, I think his department did. He had something to do with it, but was not in charge of the whole thing. He worked there 25 years, and then left and did furniture July 2002

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finishing, chairs and things like that. He was a very interesting guy. When I was a kid, he used his skill with lacquer to laminate my drawings of Snow White, Pinocchio and Dumbo. Every time one of those animated movies came out, I did drawings of them. I did a shot of Dumbo in 1943, must’ve been 13, and he laminated it with lacquer on the board, so we had it for years. I drew every one of those dwarves individually and collectively, did Pinocchio quite often, and he would lacquer and laminate, mount them on wood sometimes. I would give my eyeteeth to get those back, but I have no idea where they disappeared to. My whole career, I have been very lax in keeping memorabilia. CBA: Did your mother work outside the home? Senior: No, she was a homemaker who raised five children. A lot of times, my father was making as little as $20 a week, not much to support five kids. We had a nice apartment in Boro Park, southern Brooklyn, and just before the War started, when I was ten, the landlord raised the rent, and we had to move, relocated to a tenement in Williamsburg, near Greenpoint, in Brooklyn. My mother was very upset that we were in a cold flat after living in a nice, steam heated apartment for the first nine of my years. So we moved into a cold flat, it was bizarre. There was a cold water faucet, no hot water. My mother told her husband, “We’re not unpacking! If we don’t find an apartment with hot water, that’s it!” [laughter] So, he turned things around, and we only stayed in that place a few months, but it was terrible. You couldn’t walk on the floor without shoes! Junior: Was there a coal stove in the kitchen? Senior: I used to go down to the basement,

Opposite page: Specially drawn father & son collaboration featuring many of the characters the pair are remembered for. Courtesy of the Romitas. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Inset left: Father and son at the recent Spider-Man art exhibit at San Francisco’s Cartoon Art Museum. Courtesy of Andrew Farago. Below: Penciled by John Jr. as he was being interviewed by CNN regarding the 9/11 projects, this piece was inked by JR Sr. and then auctioned off at a charity benefit for a lot of money.

Above: One of the Romita father and son collaborations (which were always Junior on pencils, Senior on inks), this was one for a North Carolina comic convention program cover in the mid-1990s. Courtesy of the Romitas. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Inset right: The first two issues of Daredevil drawn by Jazzy John Romita, Sr., the title that finally made his boys sit up and take notice of what a cool job Dad had. Senior’s covers to #12 and 13. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 4-B

shovel coal into a bucket, and bring it up, we’d put it in the stove… I don’t know how the hell we did it. CBA: Where do you stand amongst the siblings? Senior: The oldest of five. We’re only three now; we lost one sister and a younger brother. Those were rough years. I remember, we used to get frost on our windows on the inside. You know how windows frost up? I used to draw pictures of cartoon characters in the frost. CBA: What year were you born? Senior: I was born in 1930. CBA: Was your father born around 1900? Senior: He was born in 1903. Same year as Bob Hope. CBA: He came over in 1920 and had you 10 years later.

Senior: My mother was less than 17 when I was born. She was to be 17 in April, and I was born on January 24. I used to kid her that we grew up together and said we were going to go to the old folks’ home together, because she was barely older than me! [laughter] She used to get so much attention, she weighed about 98 pounds, was about five foot two, such a thin girl, and she had to hold me on her hip, because I was a big, chunky kid, and she was lugging me around, and people used to say, “Can I hold the baby for you?” She looked like she was going to pass out! [laughter] I remember seeing my mother jump-rope with her girlfriends outside our apartment. CBA: She was only in her mid-20s, right? Senior: I’m telling you, if I’m 3 years old, she was not even 20 yet! CBA: As a child, were you exposed to anybody with any artistic inclination? Senior: I did have some interesting, talented friends who would come and visit. There was a guy who was a house painter, who was the brother of a very good friend. He taught me how to draw Popeye when I was about five. He also taught me perspective. The damnedest thing you ever saw! He showed me a little trick to do a book on a table in perspective and how to draw that with a few lines. That lesson stayed with me for years! Junior: That made the art come alive, right? A book in perspective! Senior: It taught me perspective. He said you can make it look like you’re looking at the book from a long distance away by doing this and this and this, and it was a revelation to me! I think if I had any kind of natural ability that helped, it was an ability to understand what I was seeing. A lot of young people don’t understand what they’re looking at, don’t understand how it’s done, and don’t care. I was very inquisitive and knew immediately, at eight or nine years old, when I bought Superman #1, I knew that this comic was drawn by hand! Nobody told me. When Jack Kirby’s Captain America came out, I was ten years old and telling my friends, “See what he’s doing here? See how he’s got the guy popping out of the panel? He’s making it look like it’s coming out of the page!” And I used to notice things like how Jack would make sure that smoke curled in the right place, as not to interfere with the figures. When I started drawing, I was already aping professional tricks. I knew why background lines began and ended at certain places. I would tell my fellow artists—we used to have three or four guys in my school who were pretty good— “You know, what you want to do is, don’t make the line on the horizon go right across the top of the character’s head, make it break in the body, so you get depth.” Where the hell did I get that? I just got it from Caniff in his Terry and the Pirates, I got it from the early Superman comics. I still have the Terry and the Pirates Sunday pages from the Daily News in ’43, ’44 and ’45. Maybe even some ’46, when Caniff was really blossoming. Then I found out in retrospect that Noel Sickles was the guy I really was into, because he’s the artist who triggered Caniff into a beautiful run of stories. Caniff was a storytelling artist who had marginal skills as an artist in the beginning. CBA: So you really clued into the master cartoonists right off the bat? Senior: I mostly had friends who were interested in comics, but I had nobody with any kind of skill or experience. I think I was making up this COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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theory as I went along. I think that’s the blessing I was given, I don’t think I could draw any better—I was the third best artist in my high school. Two guys who went to my high school were better than I, one of them told me, “You know, John, I don’t think you should go to art school, because you haven’t done any full-color work yet.” See, I was always doing line work, he was doing full-color posters. I used to envy him! He became a teacher, but I don’t think he ever made a living in commercial art, but he was way ahead of me when we were 13! At 14, I started high school. CBA: Did you have a competitive edge? Senior: I did not have a lot of confidence, and don’t know why I had the guts to go through with it, because I felt only semi-prepared for an art school. But there was this amazing combination of lacking confidence on one level, but on another, I did have enough that I knew I could do things. It’s very strange, I don’t know why that happened. CBA: That is the way you are, though! Senior: It’s part of the way I am. CBA: You both have a sense of humility. When your son called me from San Diego, he so profusely apologized, he’s got such good manners! [laughter] Junior: Yeah, a person you walk all over! I was the only wellmannered guy! Senior: There are a lot of guys in our business, and in commercial art, who have attained a certain stature who are very arrogant. I never got close to arrogance, because I never achieved what I wanted to! I always thought I wanted to be another Caniff. The fact that I couldn’t “do” Caniff the way Alfred Andriola and Frank Robbins and some of the great DC guys who did Caniff beautifully… Leonard Starr and the guy who did The Flash, Lee Elias… I used to feel like, “Well, if I can’t draw like the guy I idolize, I must be faulty, I don’t have the ability I dream of having.” There was a time I wished I could draw like Kirby, but I couldn’t do the powerful, creative stuff. So I always felt inadequate. I know what I want to see on the paper, what I envisioned, and I always fell short. All of us do, in some degree or another. I didn’t realize that until years later! If you get on paper 80% of what you envision, you’re a genius! CBA: Did your parents have confidence in what you could do? Did they back you in getting an art education? Senior: Well, my father didn’t think I could make a living as an artist. He told me not to waste my time. CBA: Was he being practical? Senior: He wanted me to become a sanitation man, to retire in 20 years at half-pay and live like a king. He thought civil service was the way to go. Everybody in his generation used to say, “You become a sanitation man so you don’t get shot or burned up in a fire!” [laughter] He believed in civil service. So, he kept saying, “You can go to art school if you want, but you’re not going to make a living at that.” He didn’t believe it until after I was in the business ten years, starting to make some good money. I didn’t make a lot of money at the beginning of my career, so I couldn’t brag to him. But he finally became a believer when I made it a career. My mother was always supportive, she wanted what I wanted. Even my own sisters didn’t treat me like anybody special. I was just a member of the family. I generally deferred to their needs, because we were always very short of money. Whatever kept me from being arrogant, thank God, I’m grateful for it, because I don’t think arrogant people have happy times. That strange dichotomy has always followed me. To this day, when I get an assignment, I have a reservation in my insides that tells me, “Can you do this?” This after 53 years of doing comic art! How in the hell can I doubt that I can do it? Now, when I’m doing it, I don’t sweat it too much, although there are days when my stomach will churn because I couldn’t get what I wanted, and would go a whole day without earning a penny. But after 50 years of doing comics, you’d think that I should be able to do this, right? Not have any doubts? John Buscema never believed I had any doubts or misgivings about my ability to do a story. I said, “I’ve never taken a story where I would say, ‘I can handle this, don’t worry about it.’ In my heart, I was nervous, thinking, ‘Am I going to be able to do this?’” It’s a stupid way to make a living, but as long as I didn’t get an ulcer… I told Virginia, “If I get an ulcer, I will quit the business.” I never got an ulcer. July 2002

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CBA: You must’ve come close! Senior: Yeah, I had many, many frustrating times, because I was always late, and whenever I was late, I had a burning inside because I was mortified about missing a deadline. It was not the kind of thing I could cavalierly call up and say, “I’m not going to bring it in for two days.” I’d always tell them, “Oh, I’m terribly sorry, I’m not going to make it tomorrow,” or “I’ll be in late instead of early.” I was always mortified about being late.

Above: Elegant splash page of Amazing Spider-Man #69, drawn by John Romita, Sr. Courtesy of Mark Burkey, a.k.a. Romitaman, who contributed much of the following art. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: It’s John, Jr. as a wee lad in the early 1960s. Courtesy of the Romitas.

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Above: Mom and the boys. From left: son John Jr., Virginia, and other son Victor Romita in the early ’60s. Courtesy of the Romitas. Inset right: John Sr. often abandoned a page midway through penciling upon realizing the pacing was off. Here’s an example of such a page, this one intended for Amazing Spider-Man #45. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: Hand of John Sr. drawing at the Marvel bullpen, circa ’69. Photo by and courtesy of Steve Sherman.

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CBA: Were you a procrastinator at all? Senior: Well, the reason I took the office job—not that I was a procrastinator—I needed time to surround a story, I need to make sketches. I couldn’t do the splash because blank paper terrified me. So I would start sometimes on page three and get my motor running, and then I’d go back and do the splash. If I forced myself to do the splash, it was always stiff, and I’d be really rolling on page three or four, and saying, “Now, I wish to hell I was doing the splash page, because now I’m really getting in nice shape.” So I did all sorts of goofy things to trigger myself. I worked 15 years at home, from 1950 to 1965, when I started Spider-Man. I worked at home, and had hit the wall. I was doing love stories for DC since ’57 (I was out at Marvel because Stan’s output was reduced to two books; I think Dick Ayers and Don Heck were the only guys getting work, and I was out). I was burnt out at DC and took a job in advertising. Then I balked when Stan talked me out of it, and I went to Marvel. I told Stan, “I can’t pencil anymore.” I’d hit a wall doing love stories. I needed help from Don Heck one day, I could not get a story done. CBA: Do you think that your background as a romance artist turned out to be quite an advantage? Senior: Absolutely. CBA: Because you can take a mundane scene and add dynamics to it? Senior: That’s exactly what I’m known for: Creating a visual interest on marginally interesting stuff, on the dull pages. When a writer has a dull stretch in a story, I can make it more interesting than it is

by the visuals. CBA: An appealing aspect to Amazing Spider-Man, and to Marvel Comics in general, is that soap-opera aspect of getting involved in the character’s personal foibles. Senior: That’s probably why I stayed on Spider-Man, because I had the ability to draw women, old people, young people, children… that came from my advertising experience. I was consistently doing advertising work on the side, thinking comics were always a year away from extinction, and I was always thinking I’d end up in advertising. I even did some advertising work for a litho house in Long Island City, called Brett Litho, spent three years drawing Coke bottles and gum wrappers before I got into comics. So I was always a little bit expecting to be in advertising, and prepared by drawing all sorts of things. CBA: So you had an all-purpose portfolio? Senior: I had a portfolio growing at all times. I was doing smoking ads in my spare time, a hat ad, children on tricycles, things like that. I even prepared an animation pitch. I had a whole full-fledged idea that I could talk radio comedians who were being phased out into doing an animated version of all their sketches. Like Red Skelton used to have 10-minute sketches of the Mean Widdle Kid, who was one of his staple characters, and he’d do a 10-minute sketch in every half-hour broadcast. I was going to send him drawings of a little kid, and they could animate it Disney style, and he could do all of the recorded sketches that he had for 10 years, and just have somebody animate them. I never pursued it. I should’ve done it. Fibber McGee and Molly could’ve done it. All the radio shows that I loved could’ve been adapted to an animation format. They wouldn’t have had to produce any material, just recycled old radio programs. I never pursued it, but I did spend hours drawing animated figures. CBA: Did you come up with ideas like this with any frequency? Senior: Oh, yeah, but I never pursued them. I envisioned a newspaper strip based on that movie, Hotel. I had a daily and Sunday strip in mind called The Bold Ones, really a precursor of Bonanza. That title was used for a TV series in the 1970s. I had The Bold Ones logo all worked out and everything, but I never once pursued a sample, I didn’t even do a full Sunday page on it, just sketches. CBA: Do you feel that if you had someone, like Kirby had Simon and later Stan, that you might have followed through? Senior: Oh, yeah! If I’d had somebody like that, something would’ve gotten into syndication in the ’50s or early ’60s. Yeah, I was

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ready, I was primed, I had about three different ideas. CBA: You just needed a business guy? Senior: I just needed somebody to keep me going! The main reason I didn’t pursue it, is I never felt I could take the time away of my money-earning. I needed to make deadlines and earn a living, because we didn’t have any kind of unemployment, no health plan. If a guy couldn’t turn out work, he couldn’t pay the bills! So I went through a lot of nervous times. CBA: Do you feel that you’re a product of the Depression? Senior: Absolutely. In everything I do, to this day. I’m foolishly cheap on certain things I shouldn’t be, and I still have that reservation. I still save paper to the point where Virginia has to throw things out, otherwise I’ll be up to my hips in scrap. When I was a kid, and all of the kids of my generation liked to draw, we used to go to a butcher or a grocer, and they would have this beautiful paper on a roll to wrap cold cuts in, and the butcher paper, particularly, was very good, because you could trace with it, you could see through it. So, when I went to get cold cuts or meat, I would ask, “Can you give me an extra foot of paper?” and he would understand. They knew me, even at 10 or 11 years old, and I would do all sorts of drawings on butcher paper. I never went out and bought a commercial piece of paper in my life! [laughter] I used scraps my whole life! I used to use paper sacks from shopping, I’d cut out the logo part and draw on them! I was always frugal to the point of ridiculousness! [laughs] CBA: Did you look at comics as something you loved? Senior: I did. I was interested in comics. When I was very young, maybe five or six, there was a neighbor in the adjoining yard who I saw one day from our porch, and he was doing a black-&-white rendering, wash drawing, of something. I just spent hours watching him! It just captivated me, and I’d go inside and try to do it in pencil. When I was five or six, there was a drawing of mine circulating all over the neighborhood, people were astonished. My father would have three or four guys over to play cards, and they were at the kitchen table, and I did a drawing of them, and I remember drawing all their feet under the table—there was no table cloth—and all the chair legs, and the window behind them and I drew a window shade with the little pull on the bottom, you know, and they just went ga-ga, there was such attention to detail. I never went around the corner to talk to the guy drawing on that porch. I was too shy to go around the corner and ask him what he did, and if he could show me. CBA: Did you look at the great illustrations in Collier’s and The Saturday Evening Post? Senior: I saved them religiously. CBA: Did you have tear sheets or the entire magazine? Senior: John Cullen Murphy, the guy who draws Prince Valiant now, used to do sports illustration in Collier’s, which had this beautiful pristine printing that was so beautiful, so seamlessly clean, and I used to save them. I remember pictures of Stan Musial and of basketball players; he used to do a spot in the sports section of Collier’s every week that was a knockout. I used to save all of those, God knows where they are. I had them all during high school. That was another one of those things that I thought I would fall back on, was sports illustration. Did you ever see Willard Mullen’s work? [CBA shakes head] He was the most dynamic, electric sports illustrator. He used to do black-&-white things for newspapers. You know Jack July 2002

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Davis at his best? Willard Mullen was like that, in my early years, and I always harbored a great desire to do sports illustration. He did beautiful stuff. So, I was exposed to a lot of good artwork, all of the magazine illustrators like Norman Rockwell and John Gannam, people like that, I used to save all that, and it came in very handy. When I did love stories, I pulled out my old illustration file, John Whitcomb and Coby Whitmore, all the guys in the ’40s, illustrators from The Saturday Evening Post, Ladies’ Home Journal, and I used to save all those. It helped me not only doing romance, but it also helped when I was in the Army, doing recruiting posters. CBA: Did you recognize Alex Toth as about the best romance artist of them all? Senior: Oh, I still have a batch of Alex Toth stuff! When I was working at that litho house, Standard Comics was about three floors above me, and I was already interested in his work. I was ghosting comics for Stan then, while working at that litho house, and I used to buy the Standard Comics that Toth was drawing. Toth and Mike Pepe—Pepe was inking—and I just admired that stuff. I saw Caniff in it, but he polished it and gave it such life that it was amazing. I refer to his work constantly and swipe his arrangement of

Above: Courtesy of Anthony Snyder, repro of the original art to this circa ’68 Marvel poster. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: John Romita, Sr., at work in the Marvel bullpen, ’69. Photo by and courtesy of Steve Sherman.

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Left: In 1977, Stan Lee and John Romita introduced the syndicated newspaper comic strip Spider-Man, which is still being produced today, one of the very few adventure strips remaining. Here’s the first week’s worth of strips by Stan and John. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

balloons, the way he put in captions, everything. When he used to put hearts in captions, I would put hearts in captions! [laughs] CBA: You obviously recognized that romance comics were pretty static and yet Toth was able to make a dynamic thing out of the subject matter. Even Caniff’s Terry and the Pirates would go on for days with just two people chatting with each other, yet Milt instilled it with such liveliness. Senior: I could see these were strips with talking heads, yet full of power and life, dynamic to the point where you’d think the people were living. I’ll never forget Caniff’s greatest message to me… his characters were so alive to me that I fell in love with Burma and the Dragon Lady, and when Raven Sherman died, this beautiful girlfriend of Pat Ryan dies, and the next day, I hear grown-ups at the grocery store and on the street talking, “Did you hear Raven Sherman died?” To me, I thought I was the only nut who cared about these people! There were grown-ups talking about Raven! That stayed in my mind, that’s the reason I’m still considered the killer of Gwen Stacy. When we talked about trying to shake up the readership of Spider-Man, I thought of Caniff’s trick of killing a main character. During the war, Caniff did it again with another main character, had him perish in a plane crash, and people would say, “Did you hear that Snake Tumblin died?” This is a character created on blank paper in somebody’s mind, and people talked about him like he was a total human! I was very impressed with that, and it stayed with me. You want to make your characters believable, the first thing you’ve got to do is don’t make them mundane, give them a lot of personality as you can, and make them very consistent, don’t make them erratic. All of that stuff came to the forefront. Caniff’s days, from those Terry and the Pirates strips, I knew all the tricks he was doing, I could see what he was doing! When he wanted humor, when he wanted pathos…. CBA: So you understood pacing? Senior: Always. I could look at those things and remember what I was thinking the day I saw those strips. I remember the Kazak Killer, Singh-Singh, getting thrown down a flight of steps by Burma, because he tried to come on to her. To me, those are like parts of my own life! CBA: Were you clued into super-heroes? You said you’d bought Superman #1, right? Senior: I was interested in super-heroes and followed them. I also followed Prize Comics and things like that. I was very much aware of all of the genres… Westerns, Hopalong Cassidy books later on… but mostly the super-heroes appealed to me, but I was also a Terry and the Pirates fan, adventure of all kinds… Scorchy Smith by Noel Sickles and later on by Frank Robbins. I was just absorbed in it. CBA: What newspaper would you get in the house? Senior: Herald-Tribune, Daily News… I 8-B

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Spidey and the Mexican Princess John Romita, Sr. tells us: “This is a story I plotted myself. Stan used to always say that he wished we could get Spider-Man out of the city, so I wrote up an elaborate plot which took place in a rural Mexican estate, involving Indian folklore. I also intended to use an H.G. Wells kind of approach, using underground creatures that were like the Morlocks from The Time Machine. (There exists somehwere a few pages featuring those creatures.) I was working out a gimmick where either he was going to be in a mountainous region (where Spider-Man would climb a sheer cliff) or a giant, bottomless pit. So I schemed up this plot with an Indian Mexican princess surrounded by these huge bodyguards with SpiderMan trying to rescue a character who been taken down this bottomless pit by these creatures. Spider-Man was the only guy who could go down and save him. “I only penciled about six or seven pages [four of which follow] and never even presented the plot to Stan, because I wanted to work out at least half the story in pencil. But that never came to pass. They laid in my files for years and I always had fond hopes but never completed the plotted pages. Only Mike [“Romitaman”] Burkey, an art dealer, showed any interest in the pages; he liked them and bought them from me. Maybe one of these days I’ll finish the job; maybe before I’m 90!”

Above: Cover layout to John Sr.’s aborted Mexican Princess story. Inset is the splash page layout, repro’d from the 1996 Marvel book The Art of John Romita. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. Art ©2002 John Romita. Spider-Man ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. July 2002

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Above and opposite bottom right: Amazing Spider-Man #108-109 contain what John Sr. feels one of his crowning achievements in comics, a Milton Caniff-style adventure entirely plotted by JR Sr. Here are the splash pages of both issues. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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don’t remember the World-Telegram stuff too much, except that I think somebody was doing Sherlock Holmes for a while in the WorldTelegram. I couldn’t afford more than a couple of papers. I did get the Journal on weekends, and the News and Mirror. The Mirror used to have Frank Robbins’s Johnny Hazard. I remember reading Lee Elias’s Beyond Mars… all the Caniff imitators, Alex Kotsky and Ray Bailey… all of those guys. Caniff asked me to send samples to him once, and one of the lines I remember he said on the phone was, “All of my playmates are busy,” and he was going to take a chance on me. But he needed a sequence before I was ready, and I never got the chance to do it. CBA: Were you impressed with him, personally? While he was one of the most highly regarded strip artists in the world, there seemed a sweetness and likability to him. Senior: He was a model of behavior. Maybe he’s the one who influenced me in not being arrogant. I met him at a cartoonists’ night, an annual sports dinner, where Caniff and Gene Tunney and Jack Dempsey were attending… all the big fighters and baseball players. I was at one dinner where Yogi Berra and Milton Caniff both appeared. They were all on the dais together, baseball players, football players and cartoonists, and I went to it maybe three years out of five, and I have a picture of me with Yogi Berra, and I have a picture of me with Caniff, taken at one of these dinners. A moment after that picture, he was taken out of the room because he’d gotten sick to his stomach or something. He was very fragile, he had hemophilia, and was always constantly aware he

couldn’t have anything harsh for his stomach… any bleeding was going to be tragic for him. CBA: Did you have much dealings with him? Senior: No, just a few phone conversations. He called me up and told me he was keeping my samples, “if I don’t mind.” Shel Dorf told me he did keep the samples in his files, and I always harbored a wish that I would do the strip for him someday. CBA: Did you recognize Al Capp’s abilities? Senior: Capp as a very ingenious artist, too, because he had an interesting style. I learned from almost everybody. I learned how to do highlights on line work; Capp had this great trick of not connecting all his lines. The illusion was, when he’d do a nose, he’d not make the point of the nose inked in, it would look like a highlight, and it was very ingenious. I connect the lines too much, and I despise it. I should leave more open space. He did all the things I wish I could do. I’ve never been free like he was. Only in my sketches am I free. In my finished art, I get much too tight. So, Capp was the kind of guy who had little tricks that I could see and used, but never used them direct, or as often as I wanted. I learned from Peanuts, Blondie and Dagwood, learned from everybody. Every weird comic, cartoony style, there was something I could learn. All through the years I’ve trained artists, I’ve told them, “Don’t look down your nose at anybody’s work.” A lot of young super-hero artists didn’t think much of Roy Crane, and I said, “If you look at Roy Crane’s stuff, you will see ingenuity, characterizations, storytelling, believability. His stuff was always solid. Roy Crane actually created tricky storytelling. Hal Foster created an illustration style in daily comic, and introduced dynamics. Alex Raymond did polish and glamour, and Caniff brought movie storytelling into the dailies.” Whenever I teach a class, when I’ve talked to young artists, I’m always on the history, telling them, “You’ve got to see the derivation. You cannot ignore people like Foster, Raymond and Crane. Those guys created this whole industry!”

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CBA: You were lucky you could pick up a newspaper and could see it every day of the week. Senior: I was born at the right time. Actually, I was born maybe ten years too late. I always told Jack Kirby, “I wish I had been in the first generation; I’d have been a different person. I wouldn’t have these misgivings, would not have had to be a follower.” My generation had to follow, we were picking up from Will Eisner, Milton Caniff… Alex Toth picked up from Noel Sickles, and we were all picking up threads from somebody else! CBA: When the generation after you really came in, it seemed as if their influences were only Kirby. Senior: Which I warned them against. I used to warn the artists from the ’70s, “Don’t be too self-involved. Don’t just stay in the comic industry. Go and see good art, go to a museum, see what good art is. Don’t start to spring from art that already has built-in influence, even the best of us, since it’s a rush industry, had built-in flaws. If you start with a flawed model, you’re going to end up with flaws of your own added, and you’ll have double-flaws. Pick out the best you can emulate or spring from.” I used to tell them to go to the history. A lot of artists from the ’70s were very stubborn, they did not want to do what I was asking them to do. I told them, “You need a better, stronger foundation to build on.” When Alex Toth was doing all of that departure stuff, and he sprang from the standard Dan Barry stuff at DC, where everybody was drawing the same… CBA: John Prentice, Leonard Starr… Senior: Right, all of those guys were drawing the same, but he made a departure, that was the thing that captivated me. When he was doing “Johnny Thunder” and all those other clever things, and the love stories, oh, God! He was also handing out a stack of proofs, three dailies and a proof, of Noel Sickles’ Scorchy Smith from the mid-’30s. People were borrowing his original stats and making copies. July 2002

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It cost Frank Giacoia a week’s pay to make photostatic copies of Alex Toth’s bible of Noel Sickles art. I ended up with a half a stack of Xeroxes from Frank’s copies. The whole industry was aware of Sickles, thanks to Toth. If I ever talk to Alex again, I’m going to tell him thanks for keeping that stuff alive, because most of us wouldn’t even have remembered it. When I teach a class, I ask them how many people ever heard of Noel Sickles, and nobody raises a hand. I say, “If you had me for a teacher every day, you’d be studying history one day a week. I’d give you a history of comics until you got familiar with where this all started.” CBA: Obviously, super-heroes really didn’t dominate during your forming years. They overwhelmed the comics by the mid-’70s. Previous to that— Senior: This was after they were supposed to be dead! They thought the genre had run its course, and was supposed to die. People were saying, “Don’t you think that’s enough super-heroes? Now, let’s go onto something else,” but the public demanded them back. CBA: Well, the readership just got smaller and smaller and smaller. Now it’s geared for a 35-year-old male who’s still reading superheroes. Did you lament the lack of other genres at all? Senior: I lament the dominance of adult comics, per se—not that I think the stuff has to be ultra-simple all the time. Stan proved you can do a multi-level appeal. He showed, in the ’60s, when he was doing fairly

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Above: “Crawl like a spider, walk like a man!” One of Ye Ed’s strangest, most beloved ’70s artifacts was the Buddah Record’s Spider-Man “Rockomic,” with jacket art by the incomparable John Romita, Sr. Courtesy of Mike Burkey, here’s the line art for the vinyl record. The artist doesn’t recall following a written script for this continuity; rather he just listened to the recording. John Sr. tells us this was the one-time instance of him penciling, inking and coloring a job. “Marie Severin made fun of me because she thought my choice of colors was strange.” ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 12-B

primitive stuff, but it was very direct, clever, quick characterization, reflecting real life to a degree. He made the visuals appeal to a certain level of kid, and the conversation appeal to another level of kid, and sometimes he was a little bit cleverer, and adults would get it, and we had everybody from 10-year-olds to college faculty writing us letters. It appealed on so many levels, and that was an open secret! And yet, DC asked, “Why is Stan Lee gaining on us in the race?” Stan said, “I don’t know why they think it’s a mystery! It’s right there in the open! I’m appealing visually to certain kids, I’m appealing with a clever dialogue to other kids, I’m appealing to somebody else with the battle scenes, and then the reflecting of contemporary social life… it’s an open secret! Everybody could use this formula!” CBA: And combined with Jack Kirby’s punch…. Senior: Kirby did this powerful, bubbling-over with new creations! In every panel, he’d create something new. Stan also succeeded with guys like Ditko, Colan, John Buscema, Don Heck and me. (Don was so frustrated because he always felt Stan wanted him to be John Buscema, and Don was frustrated, and Stan, of course, was just interested in making the stuff so good people would buy the books.)

Stan always criticized me because, he said, I was so good, that if I had a slight flaw in the storytelling or something, he would feel it was important for me to know. Some guy who would really not react to that too well. It was never good enough for Stan! I put my heart and soul into those Spider-Man dailies we worked on together in the late ’70s. CBA: John Buscema told me how upset Stan had made him. Senior: Stan was more critical to people like me and John Buscema than he was with guys who were what he called “run-of-the-mill artists.” There was this artist who followed me on the Spider-Man strip, who was a very good artist, but he did things in the strip which Stan would never accept from me! I asked, “Stan, you’ve tormented me for years, ‘do this,’ ‘I need more designs,’ ‘I need better fashions,’ ‘I want designs on the clothing, Zip-A-Tone.’” My theory is that if Stan could’ve used photography process to do his daily strip, and the Sunday strip, he wouldn’t have used an artist, because he was really trying to do a soap opera on paper. And it’s lasted 25 years, so he must be right. But it was never good enough with me, and he was very blatant about it! I’d tell him, “If you keep criticizing, I won’t keep COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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doing the strip.” He never stopped. This other guy violated all of Stan’s guidelines, and he was never corrected! I said, “Why don’t you tell him? Why is he getting away with this long, string bean SpiderMan we agreed not to do? Spider-Man’s supposed to be 5’10”, so why do you have a guy who’s 6’5”?” He said, “I don’t know where to begin with him, he’s doing everything so wrong.” But Stan couldn’t get anybody else to do it, so just he accepted it. He told me he accepts inadequate material from “lesser” artists, but criticizes the better artists. Of course, John used to be hurt by that. John said, “We’re in a dynamic business here, you’ve got to get pages out! I’m not going back over and redo things, especially when it doesn’t improve the damn story!” If it would’ve improved the story, John would’ve done it, but to just make a change for change’s sake, that always annoyed him. I used to take it, because for some reason, I’m like a soldier, I’d take orders, but many times, I’d grumble, and I quit the strip because of it! Stan once asked me to go back on the Sundays, but I said, “Only if you don’t demand any changes at all, not one change.” He said, “I promise.” I said, “No! I don’t trust you, I don’t think you’re going to keep your promise!” [laughs] July 2002

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CBA: Maybe that’s the biggest flaw Stan had: He rode his best artists, often so hard they quit! Obviously, Ditko and Kirby walked, both saying, “I don’t need this any more.” Senior: Jack didn’t walk because Stan corrected him, because I did the corrections, which was a torment to me. CBA: Even when Jack was living on Long Island? Senior: Yeah. It wasn’t just because he was out of town; Jack would never make changes on his work anyway, and I don’t blame him. I protested making changes myself! 99% percent of those changes were story-oriented, that is, if you wanted a smile instead of a frown on a character, I would draw the smile and try to keep it in Jack’s style—which didn’t always work—and I got this reputation of being an egomaniac art director who’s making these changes arbitrarily. I never wanted to touch up Jack’s artwork; to me it felt like sacrilege! I agree with Kirby’s theory: “You buy Jack Kirby, you shouldn’t change Jack Kirby,” and he was right! But Stan was so intent on getting this story to flow, Jack and he weren’t always on the same page. Jack would draw his version of their plot, and Stan would write his version, and never the twain ever met. Jack obviously never

Next page, left: Marvel superheroes jam in these liner note drawings by John Sr., depicting the “band members” on the SpiderMan “Rockomic.” The radio show-like presentation would periodically digress in some toe-tapping rock songs that really weren’t half bad, if memory serves. Inset: The John Romita Sr. penciled, inked, and colored front and back covers to Buddah Record’s Spider-Man “Rockomic.” ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 13-B

read the printed comic books, because all he remembered was his storyline. CBA: Jack never looked back? Senior: Jack never looked back, and I don’t blame him, because he was doing very exciting stories! If Jack had a problem, it was that he sometimes was jumping from one good thing to another too quickly, and he would have a wonderful character pop up, for instance, and then would kill him by page five. Stan would go crazy! [laughter] “Jack! This is too good a character to kill!” Jack would rather create a new character every other page than remember what the character looked like on page two! He was so relentlessly creative, it almost defeated him! CBA: Some say that was his problem at DC, too much, too quick. Senior: Exactly. It was. I still consider that whole New Gods thing was produced at 78 R.P.M., and if they’d played it at 33 R.PM., I think it would’ve been much more effective. He threw everything at the reader so fast! I always compared it to somebody being in the front row of a theater and you can’t take in the whole stage from the front row, because it’s in your face. If I had any control over Jack, I would’ve called him up and said, “Jack, slow down! You’re throwing diamonds at people, and they can only catch one or two, and so many diamonds are going down the drain!” If he’d taken each one of his sequences and stretched it out for a month or two months more, he could’ve done five years on the first year of that Fourth World. CBA: But slowing down just wasn’t in his nature. Senior: I know. Jack couldn’t wait to jump into new stuff! He always said, “You can’t do yesterday’s news; you’ve got to do today’s news!” But Stan built the whole premise of his characters and continuity on reader retention and caring, and Jack just didn’t give a damn about that. He was telling his stories as fast as he could. The run of 102+ issues of Fantastic Four, plus the Annuals, proved to me he could sustain enormous readership interest when he had someone—Stan in this instance—to channel his work. Even Joe Simon with all their popularity as the Simon & Kirby team in the 1940s and ’50s, was able to change the speed of Jack’s recording, so to speak, make it come out at a pleasingly pace for the public. Jack just needed a filter, almost like a translator, to retain interest from the readership, who needed to be fed Kirby less chaotically, more leisurely, so they could absorb this great material. Jack’s approach was to throw everything at the readers, and hope they could catch it. It hurts me when people say that Stan took advantage of Jack. Of course, he did in a way, but in the same way any employer takes advantage of any talent, like a producer who has a great star who makes the movie ten times more effective. You can’t say Stan’s taking advantage of Jack to spite the guy; Jack was taken advantage of for everybody’s benefit. So Stan takes a bad rap. He used our brains, and that’s what he was paying us for. Of course, we didn’t get much credit at first, until Jack started to demand equal credit. He came to call it “A Stan Lee-Jack Kirby production,” though maybe Jack would’ve wanted it “A Jack Kirby-Stan Lee Production.” When Gerry Conway took over Spider-Man, and I was penciling, he gave me top billing, 14-B

because he was a young kid. Gerry was aware that it started with the art, and then his writing was the finishing touch. He was very clever, and I thought giving me credit like that was a very thoughtful thing to do. If Stan had done that, if he’d said, “A Jack Kirby-Stan Lee Production,” he would’ve had Jack eating out of his hands. But they clashed only because Roz and Jack had this feeling Stan was purposely taking advantage of Jack, making more money, and making his name bigger while standing on Jack’s shoulders.

CBA: Jack seemed to internalize everything but was able to have his anger come out through his art. Senior: Jack did not like confrontation. He would tell you everything was fine, and then go home and rant. I do the same thing, I would take orders from Stan, and then I’d grumble when I’d get home. If I was correcting another artist’s work, I used to joke, “I’m doing the work, and he’s cashing the checks.” But I would never go out and make it public to tell Stan I’m not going to stand for this crap anymore… Jack was the same way. I think it would’ve been wonderful to see more stuff from Stan and Jack for another five or ten years. As a fan, I would’ve loved it.

CBA: It’s interesting how after a certain period, around Fantastic Four #65 or so, Jack stopped contributing original characters to Marvel and saved his New Gods to pitch at DC. Senior: If anybody deserved to do that, it was him. I often had that attitude. I once created a line of characters for an abortive Australian series called Captain Australia. I designed the costume for the guy, for an Australian publisher, and Marie Severin, Herb Trimpe and I designed about a half-dozen villains. I created a character called the Black Swan, but I didn’t include it in the presentation to this COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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Australian, because it was too good and I kept it in my files. Later on, I did use it and still have a proprietary feeling about it. There’s another project I have left undone. I almost did that with Stan once, but gave up because the effort was killing me, keeping me from sleep. Jack had more right than anybody to say, “Some day, I’ll have my own company, and will publish all of this stuff myself,” and that’s what I always envisioned for Jack. Somebody should’ve set him up as a creative director of a line of comics—not 25 comics, but two or three—but nobody had the foresight. CBA: Getting back to your real family, when did you first meet Virginia? Senior: When I was 11, we moved into the same building as Virginia’s family. She was living on the second floor, we lived on the ground floor, and she lived right above us. She was nine and I was 11. I went to school and would also play ball with her brother, and she used to tag along when we went to the beach. CBA: What is her maiden name? Senior: Her name was Bruno. So, I’ve known her since she was a little girl. The first time I met her I dared her to throw a Coke bottle at me, and she did! I just caught it before it hit the pavement! [laughs] It was hysterical. CBA: When was that moment you knew she was for you? Senior: [laughter] I thought of her as a little sister, because her brother was such a friend of mine. She’d always be tagging along. Then, when she became a little more mature, I started to notice her more. [laughs] CBA: When did you two get married? Senior: I went into the Army in 1951, about a year and a half after I started ghosting for Stan, and a year later, after Virginia left her job as a legal file clerk and came on to Governor’s Island (where I was stationed). CBA: Did you have to go to Korea? Senior: No, but I was in the Army during that time, slated for an assignment in Germany, but that never happened. I was based on Governor’s Island doing military posters. She took a job in post transportation right underneath me, so we were seeing each other every day. Actually, we were engaged in 1951, before I got in the Army, and by ’52 we got married. John’s older brother, Victor, was born in ’53. John was born in ’56. CBA: Where were you living? Senior: Actually, Virginia was living in Brooklyn, in the same neighborhood we grew up in, in Williamsburg, and as soon as I got a Class A pass, we could live off-post and we got an apartment, so we used to take the ferry every night and then the subway to Bensonhurst, where we had that little place the first year and a half we were married. Victor was born in Brooklyn, and then we moved out to this area [Queens], near Carmine Infantino, believe it or not. He used to have us out to his house when we lived in Bensonhurst, it’d take me an hour to get there, and we used to pass through the neighborhood. CBA: Was Carmine’s brother, Jimmy, living there, too? July 2002

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Senior: I guess so. I didn’t meet Jimmy until I got to Governor’s Island. I remember Carmine, his mother and father at that house in Queen’s Village. When I was looking for a house outside the city, I remembered Queen’s Village, and said, “That’s the neighborhood we drive through to get to Carmine’s,” and Virginia said, “Let’s go look at it.” We got a little house in Queen’s Village. CBA: How long did you live there? Senior: About 11 years. It was a little bungalow. John and his brother shared what I consider a big closet as a bedroom! [laughs] It was a tiny house. Our present house is under three miles from that bungalow. CBA: What has become of Victor? Senior: Victor became a schoolteacher and was very good at it, but when he wanted to raise a family, and not making enough money, so he went to IBM and relocated to Baltimore. He was nine years with IBM, and he left for a couple of years to try other ventures, and he was back to IBM again, doing very well. CBA: Did he ever have any artistic leanings? Senior: Slight artistic leanings. He has a certain ability, but never had the patience that John and I have to stick with it, but he’s a very talented writer. He’s written screenplays. He almost became the fourth Romita at Marvel. After he left teaching, he went up to be interviewed, and Ann Nocenti and Larry Hama were both considering him as an assistant editor. By the time they made up their mind, he’d accepted the job at IBM, so to this day, I think he’s a little bit curious as to what would’ve happened if he’d become an editor at Marvel. That was before the anti-nepotism rule came into play! He would’ve gotten in just under the wire. CBA: But Virginia was grandfathered in? Senior: Virginia just came in one day to help me out without pay, back around 1974, when I was on staff, because the submissions from young people were piling up. I couldn’t find the time to write notes back to them. I was getting way behind in my work, trying to do SpiderMan and accept submissions at the same time, it was crazy. She came in to help me clear my backlog, and before she left, after a couple of weeks, three people

Inset left and above: John Sr. would occasionally produce a cover rough indicating the color breaks he would request. Here’s his Amazing Spider-Man #79 marker comp and finished cover above. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Below: The first professional collaboration between father and son was the introduction of The Prowler in Amazing Spider-Man #79, a character (initially called “The Stalker”) conceived by John Jr. Panel detail from that issue, as drawn by John Romita, Sr. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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This spread: John Romita, Sr. hasn’t a clue as to why these pages—clearly marked for use in Amazing Spider-Man #74 (which contains a completely unrelated story)— were left unfinished. Ye Ed’s ASM collection is a tad incomplete so we don’t know if this storyline, apparently involving a corrupt politician and the Kingpin, was ever integrated into Spider-Man proper. Anybody got an idea? All pages courtesy of Mike Burkey. Art ©2002 John Romita, Sr. Characters ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Opposite page, bottom left: John Sr.’s cover art for Les Daniel’s opus, Marvel: Fifty Years of the World’s Greatest Comics. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Right: John Sr. is Marvel’s Number One guy for book cover art as indicated by this Spidey drawing, done for the third Essential volume of the Web-spinner’s comic book run. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. July 2002

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Above and inset right: Sometimes after completing a penciled page, John Sr. would refigure the page and truncate or expand the action as needed. A good example is this page from Amazing Spider-Man #86 page featuring a revitalized Black Widow contemplating her past. As seen inset right, this page was scrapped and expanded into two for the final comic. Above art ©2002 John Romita. Characters and right pages ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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wanted to hire her. They brought her into the reprint department, then hired her to help somebody else who was on vacation, and every time she finished, somebody else wanted her, and before you know it, she was a secretary, traffic manager, and production manger. She spent 20 years there. After coming in to help me with my files, [laughter] she had a 20-year career there! CBA: Was that all right by you? Senior: Oh, yeah! No problem at all. CBA: You’d also work at home, too, right? Senior: I went to work for Marvel on-staff in 1966, so between ’66 and ’74, I used to go in by myself, while she was still running the house and caring for the kids. When they were ready to move out on their own, she started looking for a job. I said, “Before you take a job locally, come in and help me.” That was the end of her freedom! [laughter]

CBA: So you went in every morning together? Senior: For the last 20 of my 30 years at Marvel. We’re going to celebrate our 50th anniversary in November of this year. I heard a remark from another couple, saying they consider that because they worked together at home, spending 24 hours a day, seven days a week for all those years, they should get double-time! [laughter] I consider that we’ve been married 90 years! CBA: [To John Jr.] So you grew up in Queen’s Village? Junior: Yeah, I was born in a Brooklyn hospital, because that’s where the doctor was based. Senior: The pediatrician was in Brooklyn, so John was born in Brooklyn. Junior: But I was raised in Queen’s Village until I turned nine, where I had to deal with bullies. [laughter] Dad, I always felt that’s why you moved out of Queen’s Village, because I was getting beaten-up all the time. Senior: No, it was just a coincidence. The thing is, he’s always felt small because he was three years younger than his older brother, so he always felt small and behind everybody else. Junior: I think that’s extended into my adult life. I always felt “less” than everybody else because I’m shorter—I’m still shorter, my wife is taller than me [laughter]. My son will be taller than me in a couple of weeks, he’s only five! [laughter] My brother was always taller, bigger, stronger, smarter, better looking… I always felt insecure. And it really reflected my art education, because I didn’t want to show my father anything as I was growing up. I was ashamed of everything I did, because I’d look at his artwork, and look at the books he’d show me with art by Buscema and Kirby, and when I would draw, naturally, the results were embarrassing! Even in high school, there was always somebody in class who got more attention. Not necessarily better artists, but they were freaky, which was “in” at the time. When I went to school, a lot of my teachers were ’60s flower children, they were peaceniks, and they wanted wild stuff from their students, and it went that way into college, too. The other kids in the class were much deeper thinkers than I was. I was a realist, my teacher, Mr. Sluinsky, used to call me Rockwell. [in a low, nasal voice] “Rockwell, you’re too straight! Rockwell!” Senior: Like Norman? Junior: Yeah! “You’re too straight, you’re boring! Go on, smoke a joint, come back and do some work!” Well, not seriously telling me to indulge, but just loosen up, and get with the rest of the guys in the class who had much more depth than me. I had my father—who’s a great artist—and my brother—who’s a brilliant student—and I was short. I always felt insecure about everything I did. I think that reflected to this day. I don’t feel any ego involved in what I do, because as somebody once said, “There’s always somebody better, bigger, stronger, smarter, and better than you are, so don’t let your feet get off the ground.” CBA: Do you think that sense of humility can go to extremes? Junior: Yes, I do. Maybe if I didn’t have such a good family, such a wonderful support system, it might’ve affected me adversely. It did keep me from getting too full of myself in any way. The guys I hung around with in school were big, strong, good-looking guys. We used to go out to meet girls…. Senior: That’s because your older brother was there, so you were always the youngest guy in the crowd. Junior: I think it even gave me a speech impediment, because I would slur my words by speaking too quickly. I had to go to speech therapy for a while because I was trying to talk too fast. I still talk too fast. I still have my moments of anxiety and feelings of not being able to draw competently, and there are guys who are better artists than me, and I always compare myself to them. So I have moments, but it all started by being the small guy, getting beat up by bullies. I’d name them, but COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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they’d probably sue me. [laughter] And then always comparing my stuff to my father’s artwork and then going to school and comparing myself to those guys… I was never the one who got any awards, they did. CBA: You must have a sense of self-worth today, because your work is well-considered, right? Do you have a good grasp of your value to the company? Are you exploited? Junior: I think every artist is exploited. Nobody makes as much as the companies do. I’m happy with the way things have gone. If I could go back and do it over again, maybe I would’ve accepted the chance to go with the Image guys to make quick money, but maybe over the long haul, I’ve adjusted to that, because Marvel has treated me well, and there was a period of time where they paid me almost too much. At that time, Marvel was starting to slow down, and they even said they regretted giving out this big contract. But I don’t think I’ve been unduly exploited; I don’t think I’ve been taken advantage of. Maybe on a personal level by individuals, possibly, but not by the company. That’s the way everybody works. You do your work, and the company makes money from it. Maybe Hollywood people, movie stars and musicians can claim that, and they can make their money back, but this is comics, you know? So no, I don’t feel like I’ve been improperly exploited. Maybe if I’d been exploited more, maybe I would’ve had bigger sales, I don’t know. CBA: I just meant people taking advantage of your better nature. Junior: On a personal level, yes, I think there’s been some editors I’ve dealt with who were real bastards to me behind my back, and I won’t name the names, but I’ve outlasted all of them in the business at Marvel. I heard what a former Marvel editor-in-chief said about me but only after he was fired, and my jaw dropped when I heard! I thought I was a good judge of people. I’m a New Yorker, supposed to be able to tell if someone’s BS’ing me, but I got hornswoggled by a lot of people. So I get taken advantage of on a personal level, not by the company. It was some personalities within the company, and I got pushed aside on a lot of deals. I was passed over by a lot of editors where the art wasn’t the deciding factor, it was a personality thing. I find those things out later on. A lot of things happened to me at Marvel that people would say, “I don’t know why you took that! I would’ve quit a long time ago if I’d taken that.” Senior: A lot of near-misses. Junior: A lot of near-misses and people doing rotten things to me behind my back. I still hear comments, up until a year and a half, two years ago, online, that I got my job because of my father; that the only reason I’m in the business is I have the same last name as my father. So here, 25 years later, I still hear that! [laughter] CBA: How do you respond to that? Junior: I think that’s an insult to my father, because he wouldn’t have let it happen. Senior: Not even I would do that. [laughter] Junior: I get angry the way I’d get angry if someone made fun of the clothes I wear. That’s annoying. You know, “This is a nice pair of pants. That’s stupid to say that!” That was really be an insult to my father, because there’s no way in hell he would’ve let that happen. Senior: When they were asking whether he should be hired, I said, “I’d rather see him put last on the list to fill this job,” only because I dreaded the thought that he’d be given this treatment he’s July 2002

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talking about. Marie Severin actually hired him, to do sketches for the British reprints. Junior: In 1976. CBA: Pretty early in the game. Senior: He was doing splash pages, because they were splitting up 20-page stories into three seven-page sequences for the British reprints, and he was doing splash pages and covers. He’d get $5 a cover sketch, remember? Junior: Yeah. Senior: Five dollars a cover sketch! Junior: In the summer of my second year of college, before I graduated, they started up British Marvel, and Larry Lieber was the head of that, and I got a chance to go freelance full-time, if I wanted. I did that for that summer, and then soon after that, there was an opening as a production assistant. Senior: That was a good two years. Junior: They offered that to me, $185 a week. I’ll never forget that. I went out and immediately bought a car.

Below: Rejected cover design for The Punisher’s first solo appearance in the black-&-white magazine, Marvel Preview #2. The final version featured a Gray Morrow painting. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. Art ©2002 John Romita. Punisher ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Senior: New York dollars! Junior: It was great! Senior: And also it was a great experience, because he was practically a one-man gang on the Conan book, right?

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he let me be around to help out. I’d get him coffee. CBA: Maybe he liked you because he’s short, too! Junior: Yeah! He is the exact same height as me! [laughter] He was a sweetheart, the nicest guy! All those Spanish and Filipino artists working on the b-&-w books just treated me like a king, and they were the nicest guys in the world, all of them. When I became an accomplished penciler later on, they would ink some of my stuff, and it was nice. So I did the production assistant work, and was there for about two years or so. CBA: As a kid, when did you realize what your father did? Senior: I worked at home during all his early years. Junior: When I became cognizant of life, I guess. You know, you don’t even imagine you’re alive until you’re three. I know he was up in the attic doing something, and I’d go up occasionally to see what he was doing. But not very often. I was afraid of the attic. I had nightmares. Senior: We had one of those Above: Mary Jane Parker recalls the late Gwen Stacy, her husband’s first love in a Lee-scripted and Senior-drawn story in Amazing Spider-Man #365. Below: Cover image by Senior from Webspinners: Tales of SpiderMan. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Junior: Ralph Macchio was the editor, and I forget if he was the assistant, or if there was somebody above him, Roy Thomas was in California, and John Buscema was penciling the Conan books, and I got a chance to be the production assistant. When the pages would come in, I’d Xerox them, photocopy them, and photocopy the backs of Buscema’s pages, because on the back, John would draw the most elaborate warm-up sketches, and I’d go running to my father on the other side of the office to show him those, and others would line up to admire Buscema’s work. Senior: Everybody made copies. There was a Xerox moment whenever his pages came in. I used to warm up the same way on back of my early pages. I’d pencil and ink. I’d get a certain kind of freedom in my wrist, doing drawings, and that’s what Buscema would do. Junior: So I’d take the pages, copy them, and send the pages on to Roy Thomas, who was living in California. I would also help out with anything else on all the black-&white titles. There were three or four of them; I’d do the registers and set them up for the overlays… I did everything! I did corrections, I did pin-ups. Rudy Nebres inked one of my Hulk pin-ups that got lost in a gallery, and I was broken-hearted. The Hulk punching out a mastodon. I was so proud of it, because Rudy took this really lousy drawing [laughter] and turned it into an absolute masterpiece. For some reason, he liked me, because when he’d work on the Conan books,

folding attic stairways. Junior: The noise it would make, the spring-loaded noise—I think you rebuilt that whole door by yourself. The door was in our bedroom, and it never closed all the way! Senior: I had to pull the stairway down in the middle of their bedroom. [laughter] Junior: But it never closed all the way! [laughter] I remember having nightmares there was some green mist that was going to come out of that, [laughter] and he had to close it with a springloaded thing once, because my brother and I had nightmares about it. CBA: [To Senior] Did you keep relatively normal hours? Senior: No, I used to work through the night all the time. The reason I finally went to work at the office is because I was not disciplined enough, I would be sidetracked… if somebody came to visit Virginia, and they were having coffee, she’d say, “John, you want coffee?” I never said no! I would go down, and then two hours would be shot. And then, when John was old enough to throw a baseball around, I just never stayed at my drawing table, I went down and played ball with him! CBA: Did you spend a lot of time with your boys? Junior: Oh yeah! My God, what a precedent he set! Senior: I tried to, I tried to. That’s why I worked through the night. Junior: I’d feel guilty—to digress. [laughter] I just said the other day about how guilty I feel about not spending more time with my son, and I work at home! I’m home all the time! And still my son loves me being home, we go out running on the weekends… I still don’t feel like I spend enough time with my own son, because of the amount of time my father spent with us. CBA: You were very lucky to see your boys grow up then, especially during that time of the Organization Man, with every husband and father commuting into the city from the suburbs. We lived in Westchester, and my father commuted to New York City, so we hardly ever saw him! Junior: When people used to ask me what the best thing about my job was, and I would say, “Being close to the television and the refrigerator.” Now, it is being close with my son. Right behind that, is being this tight with my father, in a company and a job that’s kept us close all these years. If I haven’t talked to him in more than a couple COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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of days, it feels wrong. I always talk to him about work! I call him up and say, “I’m so mad I’m doing this, this guy did that,” and he’ll get madder than I was! [laughter] It hearkens back to earlier days, when I was about five, he’d go through our bedroom and up into the attic, my brother and I would be going to sleep, the light would still be on, I’d see the crack of the light, and could sleep better, knowing he was right there. CBA: Holding back the mist! Junior: Exactly! I’d get up, and he’d still be up there working! I’d come back from school sometimes, and he’d still be up there! I remember at one point you were up there two days in a row. Senior: Yeah, I would sometimes work around the clock. Junior: He’d be up there, and never came down! “Where’s daddy?” Senior: This was before I’d go into the city, right. Junior: He would come down with his new beard, a couple of days’ growth…. Senior: If I had to take a job in, I’d work until I was finished. Thirty hours sometimes. My son would come up, and many times I’d be so groggy, I was unable to really use my mouth, because I’d have gone 30 hours without talking, and he’d rub my neck and say, “You didn’t sleep at all, dad?” Tears were in his voice, because I’d missed all that sleep. I used to tell him, years later, “Why would you want to be in this business? Didn’t you see me working 30 hours straight? How could you want this? While your friends are out playing, you’re going to be drawing all the time!” [laughter] Junior: I’ll tell you the honest, psychoanalytical answer. Seeing you work so hard also set a precedent for me, too, that working those hours—without knowing that artists had to do that anyway, and everybody’s done it. I would work long hours, too. I’d sleep later in the day, and work through the night on a regular basis, because I was a single guy. But when I was five, six and seven, watching him, knowing he was doing romance stuff and not really enjoying it that much, but still making that sacrifice for us. I remember watching him ink, how he had his desk set up with his inkwell over here, next to the sample pad where he’d test his brush out, and I’d ask him silly questions and he would take the time to answer them. So I’ve learned to show patience to my son who asks me all these same questions because of my father’s example. Every question I asked my dad, he wouldn’t hesitate to answer. He’d never blow me off, never say, “You know what, kid? I’m really too busy. You’ve got to get out of here.” My son gets on my lap, and I have to be stern with him! “Vinnie, I have to get work done. You’ll have to get out of here.” Or he’ll come up, and sit on the floor next to my chair and play with the adjustments, and I’ll have to say, “Vinnie, you have to go. I have to work!” An hour later, I’ll realize, “I can’t believe I’ve been so hard on my own kid! Oh, my God!” [laughter] Tears are welling up in my eyes because of how well my father treated me! He always had the patience for me. Senior: Oh, I’m sure I lost my patience sometimes. You just don’t remember. Junior: If that’s true, I don’t remember. There were moments he was probably going through an anxiety-filled hour of not being able to come up with something, that I didn’t know about until years later when he had a blank paper in front of him, and he said he would shed tears and sweat over that blank sheet. Senior: Oh, if I had a couple of days without earning money, it was terrible. Junior: If I ever walked up in the middle of that kind of pressure, God knows what I would’ve heard! If I ever become a movie director, I’m going to put my vivid memory of that attic up in the film, with all of these boxes of photographs of reference material, with stars, celebrities, magazines, newspapers, stacked! Senior: I think I had 100,000 movie stills once. I got them when I was in the Army. That is what John is referring to. And the magazines! Ladies Home Journal, Collier’s, The Saturday Evening Post… I had stacks! Junior: I’m so lucky in that the image I have of movies and movie stars goes back to his generation, because of the memorabilia he had. Some of my favorite movies of all time are black-&-white, because I July 2002

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remember sitting here watching movies with him in Queen’s Village, on the black-&-white television. He would describe movies he loved, tell me why they were great, and point out details. CBA: So you guys were definitely pals? Junior: Oh, God, yeah! CBA: Did you go through a period of rebellion? Junior: I was a pain-in-the-ass teenager like everyone else. Senior: The rebellion came later on, that’s when he was doing regular work. But while he was a young teenager, he was just very impatient, but he thinks he was trouble. He was not trouble. I was blessed with two kids that were never in any trouble. Junior: Oh, all teenagers are trouble!

Above: Unused full-page panel penciled by John Romita, Sr. for the Amazing Spider-Man Annual wedding issue, #21. The final version featured a caricature of the designer of M.J.’s gown, who had recently passed away. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. Art ©2002 John Romita, Sr. Characters ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: Christmas ornament design by John Sr. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Inset right: Senior worked on innumerable special projects for Marvel, including this informational booklet featuring Marvel’s Star Spangled super-hero and the Falcon. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Entertainment, Inc.

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Senior: During those years, when he was 15 or 16 years old, whenever we were in the car for a long trip of one or two hours, to Cape Cod or someplace, we plotted stories. So did my older son, and even Virginia would chime in with ideas. Did you ever see the credit John got for the Prowler in Amazing Spider-Man? CBA: Oh, yeah, right! Senior: He was 13 years old when he sent a drawing in with a new costume, with the name, “Prowler” on a character. I showed it to Stan, and he said, “Gee, the costume is not too special, but I love that name!” Junior: It was a stupid costume. [laughter] Senior: But the name was his creation, and when I did this “TV Terror” thing, we put in the Prowler name. So the Prowler is part him and part me, of which Stan can take no credit. Junior: Plotting was a great way to pass the time in a car ride. He’d start up a conversation, “I’m having real problems bridging this gap between this and this,” and Victor and I would say, “Well, maybe you should try this!” And he’d lead us into it. The travel time would go by fast. Then he’d actually use a couple of scenes we’d come up with in the actual comic book. I specifically remember Spider-Man had to crash through a window, and it bugged him that Spider-Man would go through a window, because if he did, it would shred the forearms of his costume. I said, “Well, he’s got to web-up his forearms!” The idea that we had anything to do, my brother and I, with those scenes would just be so cool. It was the light of our day. Then the books would come, “There it is!!! That’s the panel!!” It was great! Senior: They were a help to me, because by bouncing ideas off them, many times, I’d hear a good suggestion. Junior: Even if we didn’t come up with the answer, it would help him work out the problem. Senior: It would give me possibilities that would open up new vistas. Even Virginia had very good story ideas. Stan’s plots were general. A typical plot was: “Doctor Octopus is the villain, there’s a museum and he robs a relic from the museum, and this starts the story going. Make sure Aunt May and Mary Jane are involved.” So I’d have just the general parameters. Each sequence bridge

was a chore to do, because I’m a fanatic. I never took the task lightly. Junior: That’s where my storytelling abilities came from. Senior: Jack Kirby would never sweat it on bridges, he would’ve just started another sequence on the next page. He would’ve written, “Meanwhile…” Jack would not worry about things like that. Whenever I used to ask him, when he was in the office, “How do you do this? How can you do this without worrying about this, this and this?” He’d say, “You’re too worried about technicalities.” It was innate with him, but I would agonize over the process. How can I have the panel fight on page five, then get interrupted for personal life, and then get back together? How can they find each other again when they have to have another fight? To me, those things were really bothersome. Junior: The thing that sticks with me in storytelling, it’s got to be deliberate and make sense. I probably overcompensate, and now I’m told I’m a good storyteller, because of all that I went through listening to my dad, and then getting Jim Shooter to say, “You’ve got to really over-storytell to tell a proper story.” It just set it up for me, and now it’s part of my regimen, and now I don’t feel like I’m straining to do it. I started out from on the back end, instead of graduating slowly into learning how to tell a story, I got the challenge right cold in the face, and now it’s become an instinctive part of my regimen, just like drawing pants on a character! Now I see people struggling to tell stories, almost as if they never learned how, but it’s second nature to me today. You asked me before when I became aware of my father being a comic book artist. All of the romance work he was doing was fun to watch him do, it was nice, but it was more fun to watch him ink. I remember how beautiful it was, the lifework, and that was fascinating to me. CBA: His confidence of line? Junior: It was just beautiful. Senior: The flowing line I’d get. Junior: Always left to right. I always wanted to know why he did backhand so much, and he’d tell me the elbow, it was all mechanical. Then Daredevil #12 was like a punch in the mouth. Senior: That was in 1965. The first cover I’d been inking, after I penciled it, when you came up to watch. [Senior leaves the room] Junior: Walking up and seeing him work on that cover, it was like a light went on in my head! I was only seven or eight. CBA: Did your dad get a pile of comics from DC? Junior: No, not the DC comics. Marvel comics would come in folded in half. [laughs] He would bring comics home with him all the time. I’d also see the DC comics at the barber shop: Metal Men, Hawkman, Batman, and Superman, but I didn’t feel attached to them at all. I think my brother liked Metal Men a lot, and we talked about that book quite a bit when my father was doing the romance books. But when my father started doing Daredevil, that #12 cover is so vivid in my mind, him working on it, and I went up and asked him a whole bunch of questions, a million and one questions about the character. “What is he doing up there? Is he going to fight those guys? And how’s he going to fight them, and what are those guns going to do to them?” Because the hero is in the middle of this group of bad guys, and my father patiently answered all my questions. “Who is this guy in the red costume?” “That’s Daredevil.” “What does he do?” “Well, he’s very agile, and he’s blind.” “He’s blind?!? COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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What do you mean, he’s blind?” And I remember getting panicky and excited at the same time! That was something radically different. Oh, my God, that was such a revelation. CBA: Your introduction to the Marvel universe was that same moment when your father started working his first Marvel job? Junior: That was it! It was such an important thing to me to know how he was going to get out of that, and my father explained it all to me. It just made things clearer to me: There are heroes and there are bad guys. There was the anti-hero, “He’s a good guy, but he does bad things!” Oh, how did you explain that to me? [laughter] The education I got from him, first through the comics, and then reading the words that Stan would write, and then my father explaining the meanings of those words, I got a vocabulary out of it, and it really accelerated any kind of reading skills I had at the time. I did better in English classes at school, I had a creative writing course I did well at… it was a revelation, comics completely turned me into a reader. I haven’t been a heavy reader all my life because I’ve been working, it seems, since I was nothing! But I became at least more adept at the English language than the average kid because of comics! I was able to read and understand words… I would blow people away in vocabulary in school, and did real well in class. I accelerated in math, English and science, and I think it has a lot to do with comics! It just made me more studious. But movies also gave me a connection. I wanted to watch movies with him. The summers we had nothing to do when it rained, he’d turn the television on, and see the movie playing, “Oh, we’ve got to watch this one!” I remember summers full of Burt Lancaster movies and film noir movies. The scariest movie I thought I’d ever see was Night of the Hunter, with Robert Mitchum. That absolutely terrified me! It’s still terrifying! [laughs] Seeing Shelley Winters at the bottom of a lake in a car with her throat cut in the black-&-white movie! I had nightmares about that! Then Robert Mitchum chasing that kid through the muck and just almost getting him terrified me! I had nightmares forever from that movie! But it was so exciting, and my dad started to explain things to me I didn’t know before, and it got clearer and clearer when comics came around, understanding reading the stories and how it goes, and then when we get back to that conversation we had in the car ride, filling in the gaps of the stories, he’d say, “This makes no sense, it can’t go from here to here without some kind of bridge!” And that stuck with me, the smooth transition into scenes that he was frustrated about because nobody would listen to him, and he wanted those transitions and those problem solutions to be incorporated, and they weren’t sometimes, and it drove him nuts! I understood it, it made sense to me, and it really set me up as a storyteller after that, because of that precedent being set, I knew what I had to do, and when I started working in the business, writers still weren’t that thorough with their storytelling, and I would add too many panels. I know I did. I remember doing an early Spider-Man job, where I spent too much time on the moody scene in the beginning of the book, and I ran out July 2002

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of room at the end of the book! [laughter] Then I realized I had to thumbnail the whole story out into notes with panels, to make sure that the pacing was proper throughout the book. CBA: How did your father do it? Would he thumbnail? Junior: He’d do his sketches beforehand, and agonize over what panel was right for the sequence. CBA: So why didn’t you naturally do that to start? Junior: Speed. I think I skipped a lot of his structure because it came a little bit easier when I’d lay out on the page, and didn’t want to have to lay it out again, because I seemed to get the action I wanted in the layouts, and instead of doing it all over again—laying a piece of paper on a light box and drawing over that—I would just lighten up the sketches, and tighten them up. I seemed to be able to do that. It ended up being several stages: layout, tighten-up more, a little heavier layout, and then I’d tighten up a little more, then the finished pencils. Over the years, I eliminated, so I just layout quickly, lighten up and tighten up. I’ve got it down to two stages. If I were as prolific as guys like John Byrne and Bill Sienkiewicz, who layout and then ink to finish from their layouts, I’d probably be very wealthy right now, but I can’t work that way… Byrne and Sienkiewicz are freaks of nature. CBA: How many pages do you do a month in general? Junior: I’ve done as much as 70 pages in a month, and I’ll struggle sometimes with 25 pages a month. I think I can average about 40, 45 pages a month. When everything is ideal, when the stories come in properly, and there’s not a lot of holidays… [Senior returns to the room] Senior: He’s

Below: Penciled by Ron Frenz and inked by John Romita, Sr., this cover appeared on a 1980s SpiderMan trade paperback, depicting the revised Spidey costume that would later become the popular villain Venom. Courtesy of Mike Burkey. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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better than I ever was! Junior: [laughs] ...there’s not a lot of holidays, and my son isn’t sick, my wife hasn’t gotten sick. I don’t get sick, by the way. [laughter] I’m not allowed to. There’s no sick time in my contract, and there’s no vacation time. So I’m not allowed to get sick. CBA: The life of a freelancer. Junior: I rely on a lot of vitamins. Thank god for my mother and her vitamin kick 25 years ago! So, I can do that many pages under normal circumstances, but I got it down to two separate stages, where I started doing three separate, four, building up to tight pencils. But how I learned to tell stories was all from him, the process of doing it and putting notes in the borders to describe what I was doing. He said something to me once: “You shouldn’t rely on the notes or the writer’s balloons.” I said, “Well, the writer can fill that in!” when I was first starting. He said, “No! That doesn’t make any sense, because he might not have it on his mind, and if he leaves it out, it’s

going to look stupid; it’s going to make no sense.” I had to be more deliberate with the storytelling, it was all because of him. Any storytelling I can do. But it was all attached to the movies, reading comics and the conversations we’d have. Senior: It also happens to be your natural way of thinking. Junior: But let me tell you where that came from, I know you didn’t spend concerted days and hours and weeks with me on how to tell a story, but there was quite a bit of time just watching you… Senior: Yes, I agree. Junior: …and you describing what you were doing. It became second nature to me. Then, when I started working for Marvel, working under Jim Shooter’s editor-in-chief reign, Jim made a specific effort to concentrate on establishing characters for the readers and storytelling. He didn’t necessarily have the same ideas as my father, so far as storytelling goes. He said, “Be very deliberate, and establish, establish, establish, so that everybody knows where you are in a given story. Don’t be afraid of 10, 12 panels on a page,” which was too far over. But it was a combination of my father’s ideas of storytelling and Jim Shooter’s demands, that really put me in the right direction. My art may not have developed as quickly, because I was so busy concentrating on storytelling. I spent more effort on the story and laying out of the pages than I did on the actual mechanical artwork. I think I’m not nearly as good a penciler as a lot of guys in the business, but I think I spent more time with the storytelling, and I think that makes my artwork look better. That’s my opinion. CBA: Do you think you’re focusing more on the style now? Junior: I’ve never really cared about my style! [laughs] It’s just whatever comes out. I call it “the deadline style.” Whatever comes out on time. I’ve never really paid attention to it. CBA: I certainly look at your ’70s Iron Man work and see you working on the fundamentals. Junior: Right, but I was also doing breakdowns on that. This was also an important turning point for me, because I was working with Bob Layton and David Michelinie, who didn’t want me to do pencils. They pretty much took me as a second-class citizen. I wasn’t really treated that well. Not poorly, but I was kind of not taken as an equal. Bob Layton was also plotting as well as inking, doing finishes over my breakdowns and obscuring any of my stylization. It ended up looking like Bob Layton to me, though it was a great experience working with the two of them, a great learning process, but I didn’t see my work in the finished product! Then I worked on The X-Men following that, and felt the same way. Dan Green was doing finishes on the majority of my stuff on that book, and he did beautiful work on my breakdowns. Once again, I was completely dwarfed by Chris Claremont’s scripts and plots and finals; I almost felt like I wasn’t even part of it! We would go to conventions, and bless Chris’ soul, because he’s become a fan of my stuff—he says—when I first started, I was almost unimportant to the book! Nobody would talk to me at the cons, they’d talk to Chris! [laughter] I was also doing breakdowns on Spider-Man, and Jim Mooney, bless his heart, was doing finishes over me, and again, I was working from plots, and I was so thrilled about doing Spider-Man at that time, doing the character my father did! It was #209 I think, and Joe Sinnott did the finishes on my second issue, and I was very lucky to have someone like that. But then, I had Jim COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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Mooney doing the regular work after that, and I was so excited about doing Spider-Man, I didn’t care that I was doing breakdowns again, and Jim Mooney’s inks were covering me up again. Not obscuring me, but I didn’t see me! I didn’t feel like there was any style in it! I was too busy trying to do stuff like my father had done, stuff that Buscema had done, stuff like Kirby had done… never getting out. It would start off in my head as Kirby/Buscema/Romita, but by the time it got out of my hand, it was me, which was just a horrible blow! [laughter] I did Spider-Man for three or four years, and before that, Iron Man for three. CBA: Was Iron Man your first regular gig? Junior: Yeah, first assignment. I did a six-page back-up story called “Chaos at the Coffee Bean,” a Spider-Man backup, it was the first full story I ever did, six pages, after doing all the sketches and working in the British department for a year, and then becoming a production assistant. Then, they offered me Iron Man, but before that I’d done this six-page Spider-Man job, “Chaos at the Coffee Bean,” and Al Milgrom saved my life on that one. Boy, he saved my ass! Archie Goodman, rest in peace, allowed that piece to be printed. I don’t know if he should’ve! [laughs] It’s terrible, but at least it was saved by Al Milgrom, and I think it at least showed them I could survive. Then they offered me Iron Man after that; Adkins had quit and there was an opening on Iron Man, so I did it. And when they gave it to me, Scott Edelman came in and said, “I don’t believe in nepotism, I don’t believe in anti-nepotism, either.” Or was it the other way around? [laughter] “I’m going to give you this chance, because I don’t care that you’re your father’s son.” He said it in an abrupt way, but it was a very nice thing to do. Then they offered me Iron Man, like I said, and I started doing that. Bob Layton covered me up, and I didn’t feel it was me, and I did it for a couple of years, and got a little better and better at it. Then they offered me Spider-Man. I’ve forgotten who was on Spider-Man before me, but they quit and I was able to do SpiderMan for a couple of years. I did it for four years, I think. The day I was offered the X-Men, I got a call from John Byrne. He said, “Let me tell you something: I don’t know you very well, but I guarantee you you’re going to get fried if you’re doing the X-Men on a regular basis.” CBA: Just too many characters? Junior: Yeah. He’d been doing it for years. I don’t think he was warning me off it so much as he was warning me how difficult it was. I did it for three or four years, and it was tough. I didn’t feel I was nearly July 2002

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good enough for it, because Chris was just leading me along the way with these intense manuscripts, plots that were just full of ideas and visuals… and I didn’t feel like I was part of it. So I did it for four years maybe, and then there was an interruption. They offered me Secret Wars, and I had to turn it down because I was doing the X-Men, and they said, “You’re crazy.” CBA: This was just when royalties were starting to come in, right? Junior: Yes, just at the beginning. When I found out what Zeck made on that, naturally, I wrung my hands over it, it was a stupid mistake. They even offered me Secret Wars II, and I said, “No, that’s never going to make any money,” and while I don’t think it made the same amount, it still did well. I always felt bad I made that mistake, but I was working on the X-Men, and getting royalties from the X-Men, so it didn’t hurt too badly!

Below: John Romita, Jr., at his Marvel bullpen drawing board sometime in his early years at the company, in the late ’70s. Courtesy of the Romitas.

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Above: JR, Jr. received some acclaim for his ’80s Iron Man work. Cover to the controversial “alcoholic issue,” #128. Below: Rejected Uncanny X-Men panels by Jr. Courtesy of the Romitas. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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CBA: What did the royalties amount to? Junior: Maybe $1,000 a month, on top of the page rate. Maybe has high as $2,000, but I don’t remember exactly. CBA: Were they flush years? Junior: Great years, yeah! That really was a nice boost to your salary, and it made me earn much better money than I expected. Then, at the end of my run on X-Men, as things started getting a little tense with Chris and Ann Nocenti (the schedule was falling behind for a lot of reasons between Chris and me), it was hard to keep up, a real difficult book to do. Then, they offered me the New Universe line of characters. Jim Shooter came to me and said, “I’ve got a new character called Star Brand that’s going to be the Superman of Marvel, and you’re going to make a fortune on this character.” I said, “Wow, maybe I can do this and X-Men both!” I tried and it didn’t work, because I couldn’t keep up with X-Men, naturally, and I quit to work on Star Brand. That didn’t work out very well, because I was working with Jim Shooter directly, and we kind of rubbed against each other. I did eight issues, and then quit that and Ralph Macchio offered me Daredevil and said, “You can do whatever you want and do your finished pencils.” At this point, I was so tired of doing breakdowns and not feeling a part of it, I wanted to do finished pencils. That might be a turning point I can’t compare to at any other time in my career, because I was able to suddenly draw again, putting in shadows and shading. I felt a part of it. Ann Nocenti even asked me

what I thought about some plots… “Wow! Somebody asked me about a plot!” I was able to do loose plots with Ann and whatever I wanted, and she would write according to the artwork, the way it was supposed to be done, and we had a great time working on Daredevil. I loved it. It was a soul process for me, because I felt myself developing as we went on. Then, doing double-spreads and more often than once every couple of issues… I just loved it, it was a revelation. I’ll never be able to thank Ralph Macchio enough for getting me on Daredevil. That led to doing Man Without Fear with Frank Miller later on. So, I did Daredevil for a while, then was offered The Punisher, and then back on Iron Man again. I was doing The Punisher with Klaus, and had a great time with him, Klaus just knocked me out with those inks, and it sold really, really well. About the time the Image guys took off, and the speculation craze was going nuts, and sales were going through the roof. I think the first issue of The Punisher sold almost a million copies, and the royalties on that were really nice. Then I said, “Oh, my God! I got off the X-Men! Look at how well that book is doing!” The royalties were very small on Daredevil, and Spider-Man was also doing well. Two books I never got a chance to get back on during the heyday. I remember going in and saying, “You guys really should get back on the X-Men.” At this point, Jim Lee’s guys—I forget who was doing the X-Men before Jim Lee, but X-Men was flourishing under whoever was doing it, and Spider-Man was doing well with Ron Frenz. There was no mistaking they did the right things, those sales were sky-high. Then McFarlane got on SpiderMan, and then split to do his own Spider-Man… nobody came near me. The Spider-Man guys and X-Men guys didn’t come anywhere

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near me. There was personality involved in a lot of that. The editors didn’t like me, didn’t care for me, didn’t get along. CBA: Why, were you opinionated? Junior: No, I just never hung out with anybody in the office. I had my own personal life at home. My friends I grew up with—dear friends I still keep in close touch with, 30 or 40 guys I graduated with—my personal life was with those guys, not the people in the office. I never really palled around with those people. I think it affected me in a lot of ways, that they didn’t care for me, particularly. CBA: Why, because you were a civilian? [laughs] Junior: Yeah! I used to hear it! I’d go to the beach on the weekend, come into the office on a Monday with a tan. Someone would inevitably say, “I didn’t get a chance to get to the beach! Wow, how are you able to do it?” I’d go on vacations…. CBA: They would resent you for having a life? Junior: I remember people telling me, “You know, you’re in your own world; you’re not close to the in-crowd. Maybe you should start kissing ass around here.” [laughter] So, I didn’t get chances, and then McFarlane got Spider-Man #1 and made what turned him into a multi-millionaire, Jim Lee got X-Men #1, and then Whilce Portacio got the Uncanny X-Men, and Rob Liefeld got X-Force #1… these new guys who’d come to the company got these opportunities, and I was getting passed over. These guys are all good artists, all popular artists that sold millions, so how do you argue with that? All they said to me was, “Look, we can’t argue with this, we’re sorry!” I remember a couple of guys saying, “Don’t worry, we’ll get you into the right thing, you’ll get your due.” Then I’d hear stories behind my back from other people, “You know what this guy really said?” This kind of thing. Then, for some reason, I got a chance to go back on X-Men again. I had done Daredevil, The Punisher, Iron Man, and then came the big turnaround for me, in the eyes of the industry: Working on The Man Without Fear. Doing The Punisher was one thing, and I got adulation over that, a lot of attention and working with Klaus was just a fantastic time. Working with Klaus, I knew I wanted to hook up with Frank Miller, because I’ve always been a big fan of his writing and artwork, so I called him up, and said, “I want to do a graphic novel with you.” Graphic novels had become big at the time. “Let’s do something!” He said, “What do you have in mind?” I said, “I could do Wolverine.” He said, “Wolverine is getting used a lot right now, but I do have an idea for Daredevil, and I liked your work on DD. Let me get back to you.” And Frank comes up with a treatment originally intended for a movie that didn’t get picked up. He changed it into a comic book plot, went to Ralph, who loved it, sent it to me, and I started working on it. It was slated for 64 pages, and as I’m getting into it, I get a call back from Ralph, and he said, “Frank’s got an addendum he wants to add to the end of this.” I called Frank up, and he says, “Yeah, I’m going to add a couple of pages to this. I’m going to fill in between 17 and 18, a couple of pages.” It ended up being 80 pages! [laughter] The total was about 144 pages! [laughter] I ended up doing 80 pages between page 17 and 18. So, it took me four years to work on that, because I was also working on the monthly Iron Man at the same time. But I pored over those Daredevil pages like it was the greatest, most important thing in the world to me, and it was! I don’t mean I was trying to prove to everybody I could draw, but this was so much fun! It was the most intense story I’d ever worked on, better than any of Chris’ on X-Men, better than anything Ann Nocenti did—and Ann did some very deep stuff on Daredevil: animal rights activism, Daredevil has a beer with the Devil, Mephisto appears to DD as a female. I did a July 2002

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new version of Mephisto as an evil, ugly-looking creature with a forked tongue that looked nothing like the Devil to me, but it was my version of what Mephisto should really look like, instead of a guy in tights and a robe. I don’t think the Devil should have tights! [laughter] That was incredible stuff—but working on Frank’s plot was the most intense thing I ever did, and there were no costumes in it. He said, “Listen, it’s going to be a total departure.” It was a retelling of Matt Murdock’s origin, and it was brutal, a little rougher than normal, and I really remember having so much fun telling that story. At some point, a sentence expanded into ten pages. At another point, ten pages worth of plot was only six panels. It was a roller-coaster ride, and it took me four years to do it, and it took Frank another couple of years to finish it, because he disappeared for a year or two to work on Robocop 2. Seeing Al Williamson ink that was such a pleasure. Oh, man! And finally, it was finished, and he said, “It’s not going to be a graphic novel, we’re not going to make it one big story, it’s too many pages. 144 pages! We’ve got to make it into a miniseries.” So, Ralph and his assistant worked on the format of a five-part miniseries in 1991, I think. Then, Frank advertised my name in the back of the Elektra miniseries he did, on the inside, back front cover, announcing: “Coming in 1992, Daredevil: Man Without Fear with John S. Romita, Jr.” I said, “Wow!” I was Frank’s hit man, I’ve reached it! [laughter] I was so proud of that. When it finally hit the stands as a five-parter, it sold really, really well, and then it came out as a trade paperback, as one story, the way it was supposed to be, and that also sold really, really well. It almost legitimized my career at that point, made me a viable commodity. CBA: That was also quite a growth for you artistically. Junior: Yeah, it was. The Punisher thing was another turning point and so much fun. Chuck Dixon just really let me go wild. I think he’d become a fan of my stuff on Daredevil and Iron Man and said so, and let me do what I wanted on The Punisher, and it gave me a more melodramatic tilt to my storytelling, I was able to tell a story less super-hero-like. I was told I had a gritty style. Artists liked my stuff on The Punisher so much, I’d get calls saying, “I didn’t pay attention to your stuff before, wow! Your stuff on Daredevil was fun, but this is

Above: Junior’s bachelor status and “hunkiness” was noted in a 1985 Bullpen Bulletins page. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Inset left: Who better to draw the first issue of Marvel’s (only) disco hero, The Dazzler, but that boogyin’ artist, John Romita, Jr.? (Though this panel is from Uncanny X-Men and is drawn by John Byrne and Terry Austin) ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: “What’s your sign?” John Jr. from FOOM #18 (1977). ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Above: After years as a rank and file Marvel artist, John, Jr.’s technique started to loosen up and become more distinctive commencing with his work on Spirits of Vengeance. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: Pic of JR, Jr. Both courtesy of the Romitas.

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really something!” So I got critical acclaim from Punisher with Klaus’ finishes and Klaus’ inks over my stuff and it got a lot of attention. So I started getting adulation and critical acclaim from that, and the knock-out punch for me was The Man Without Fear. All of a sudden, it was, “Where have you been for the last ten years?” CBA: I was never into The Punisher because it just seemed gratuitously brutal. Junior: A lot of people were also turned off, but it sold extremely well, it was a number one, and Man Without Fear also did well. Then there was the speculation craze, so I made some money with that. Man Without Fear really cemented people’s opinions of me, and after I was through with it, I still continued to do Iron Man for a couple of years, then got a chance to get back on the X-Men again, for another three years, I think. Then I had a couple of personality problems with some guys, I got the worst treatment, the worst I’ve ever been treated was this period of time. After this one editor got fired, after I heard what he had done to me behind my back, it really ruined a lot for me. It took the fun out of it, and I was tempted not to go back to Marvel, but go to DC, as my contract was coming up. But when the artists went over to start Image and left Marvel with few big names, Marvel felt they had to ensure the remaining talent would stay, so they overpaid me. The Kubert boys, Bagley, Ron Garney all started at Marvel, and the company felt they had to cement us guys as

Marvel artists, and gave us great contracts. I was still working on X-Men, having a lousy time, with such a bitter taste in my mouth that I’ll probably never work on X-Men again. But now that those people are gone, who knows what’ll happen next? I’ve outlasted those editors, too! I’ve outlasted everybody who disliked me at Marvel! At least, I think so! [laughter] Who knows? There might be people who hate my guts at Marvel now, but don’t tell me. Knowing all the drinks that were bought for me at Joe Quesada’s party on Saturday night, maybe everybody likes me, I don’t know. [laughter] So, they took me off the X-Men to work on Batman/Punisher. They told me, “You’ll get a month off to do Batman/Punisher.” I get to work with Klaus and Chuck Dixon again. That was a lot of fun, but it was also the beginning of the downturn in sales. I thought there was going to be a gigantic hit, and it sold only 160,000 copies direct, and I said, “What happened?!? It’s The Punisher and Klaus!” “Well, things are getting tough all of a sudden, your stuff isn’t selling like it used to.” Then they wouldn’t let me back on X-Men again. Joe Madureira was put on The X-Men, and they said, “Sorry, we’ve got a hot guy on it.” I said, “Wait a minute, you said I could get back on The X-Men! What are you doing?” He said, “I can’t put you back on, sorry.” But I said, “Wait a minute, you guys stiffed me! You can’t do that!” “Well, we’ll give you something else, we’ll give you an X-Men fill-in project.” So I did some fill-ins, and they wouldn’t let me back on The X-Men again, and I was really upset with them, just disenchanted, because I had never, ever done anything except be loyal to these guys. Then, I was a man without a country at this point, you know? X-Men, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Iron Man, were all taken! Ralph Macchio said, “As soon as there’s an opening… I’m willing to make some moves if you want, I’ll put you here, I’ll put you here.” I said, “I’m not going to have anybody taken off a book, I can’t do that to anybody.” Somebody could do it to me, obviously, but I can’t do that. I remember Ralph and Mark Gruenwald offering to make some changes. “I can’t do that!” All of this coincided with my divorce, so it was a real low time in my life and career. I wasn’t getting full-time work, but they said COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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there’s going to be an opening. Then, Web of Spider-Man opened up, and I got a chance to work that. This is in ’94. It also coincided with meeting my present wife, Kathy, and suddenly, things were okay with the world, and I was able to do Peter Parker, Spider-Man, although it was the weak sister to Amazing, but I stuck with it almost like I had to redefine myself in the industry again, after having this total slap in my face by Marvel. But I didn’t blame Marvel per se; I had to blame the people, because I knew it wasn’t anything I had done! I do blame those two people, and I will always, for treating me like that. I’ve been working on Spider-Man regularly since ’94 now, with Peter Parker and now Amazing the last several years, with Scott Hanna, who’s just been a great partner to work with, the man’s been with me every step of the way on Spider-Man. It’s been an absolute blast working with Scott. Howard Mackie was also a pleasure to work with, and I had a great time. They made changes, and I presently work with J. Michael Straczynski, the sales on the book have tripled! I don’t know if they tripled because of #36 [the September 11 issue], but the sales doubled immediately because of Straczynski’s influence on the book. My artwork’s improved because it’s been a revelation, the stories have been in a totally different direction… it’s just wonderful to work with him. I struggled at first because I’d never worked with a full script before, but his are different from the standard full script. This is not telling me what to draw; this is a script with dialogue that describes things. There are moments when he’ll detail some visuals to me, but never standing over me with a hammer saying, ‘You’ve got to draw this!” He’ll write some dialogue, describing some scenes. Some panels, he’ll say, “Dialogue,” and say, “John: Knock yourself out.” If it’s possible to have a script with a lot of room, this is what he’s done. I’ve never met the man, never spoken to him! [laughs] CBA: Where does he live? Junior: He lives in California, where I am temporarily for two more years. My wife’s family’s out there, and I made a vow to finish up letting the boys get out of high school. My son is also going to school out there. It’ll be a couple more years before we can get back. If you’ve got to live temporarily anywhere, I guess California’s not a bad place to stay, but it’s miserable to me because I’m away from my family and friends. They talk so funny out in California; they get that funny accent. [laughter] So, working with Straczynski, the sales have picked up… unfortunately, the success of #36 is because of the World Trade Center tragedy. I didn’t want it to be that way. The book sold extremely well because of that story, but mostly because of the event, and that’s bittersweet. CBA: Whose idea was that for the totally black cover? Junior: The editorial people. Axel Alonso and Joe Quesada got together and worked it out. Now, there’s a book that took me twice as long to do than a normal book. CBA: Was it the emotional aspect? Junior: Yeah. Did you ever see the movie A Clockwork Orange? The scene where Malcolm McDowell’s eyes are propped open to let

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him learn not to be violent? That’s what I felt like. I had my whole studio plastered with photographic evidence of the tragedy, completely covering the walls. This is within a week of the tragedy. Initially, after discussing it with my father, I told Marvel that I didn’t want to do an issue dealing with the World Trade Center tragedy. They were already talking about doing the Heroes book and wanted me to do a pin-up for that, and I said, “I don’t want to, but if I have to, I will.” Then they said, “There’s a script that’s going to be coming through for Spider-Man about the World Trade Center.” This has been only a week after September 11 and I was still crying! I told my father—and he agreed with me—that I don’t want to do anything to do with minimizing it, that it couldn’t do the horror justice, and couldn’t Marvel just donate a month’s proceeds to the relief effort? People are going to laugh at our effort, or say it’s disgusting that comics are trying to capitalize on all that death and destruction. Anyway, I was still struggling with the event itself, as well as struggling with the thought of doing a comic book! But my wife, bless her heart, said, “Why not? You’re crazy, Marvel’s got to do something! You’ve got to do something! Why not this?” I said, “No. It’s going to be silly-looking! People are going to take it as us taking advantage of a horrible situation!” I remember her saying to me,

Above: But John, Jr.’s true breakout hit was his collaboration with writer Frank Miller on Daredevil: The Man Without Fear mini-series, where the artist truly stretched his creative muscles, launching his career into a new direction. Here’s the splash to #1. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. Below: Unused panel from the same mini-series, courtesy of the Romitas. Art ©2002 John Romita, Jr.

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Above: Besides Spider-Man, Daredevil is a character common to both father and son, as DD was Senior’s first regular assignment and he also served as the vehicle for Junior’s revitalized career. This commission piece is courtesy of Cyrus Voris. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Below: Another unused John Romita, Jr. penciled panel intended for Daredevil: The Man Without Fear mini-series. Courtesy of the Romitas. Art ©2002 John Romita, Jr. Matt Murdock ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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“Kids will understand it if you put it in a comic book form. Kids aren’t going to get it from Dan Rather. They’re not going to watch the news at night. They’re going to run away from the news, because their parents are going to be crying! The parents are going to be reading newspapers.” This is my wife telling me this, and I thought she was crazy! She ended up being so right, and when I saw the script that Straczynski sent me, I cried like a baby. I read it, and the scene with the little boy immediately just started, my father and me. I thought about my friends who were firemen, my friends who were cops… it was such a touching time in my life, a horrible period, and at the same time, making it part of my job, it was torture! I had to do the referencing, and plastered my office with these terrible images. Senior: It was so depressing. Junior: I get The New York Times delivered to me, ripped the papers apart, plastered it up on my walls, photocopied… my father sent me a stack of stuff from The Daily News and The Post, photographs… printed out stuff from the Internet… hundreds and hundreds of photographs, all over my office, so I wouldn’t have to

get up and leaf through. I had images up, knowing what I would use, after reading this script, and it was like having nightmares wide awake—daymares, I called them—but it was the Malcolm McDowell thing, I immediately went to bed the first night, and didn’t sleep. I was blinking all night long, because I was forever seeing those buildings coming down, over and over. I remember September 11th. My wife and I watched the towers fall from my office. I remember exactly the panels I was working on. It was two days before our would-be vacation. My stepson came in as he woke up to go to school and said, “I think you should be watching television.” I turned it on, and I stopped working on that particular panel. When I got back to that panel, a couple of days later, I couldn’t draw it, couldn’t finish it. I only had a couple of pages left to finish on The Hulk job. CBA: Were you up very early in the morning? Junior: I always get up early, but I was up specifically that day extremely early, because I was about to finish a job before I went on vacation. I turned the television on, watched the second plane hit live.

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It was six o’clock in the morning. CBA: [To Senior] Where were you? Senior: I was in Delaware, where we had a condo we just sold. We were driving Route One in Delaware, we heard this terrible accident had happened, and we said, “Oh my god, how could a pilot be that wrong?” Then, before we finished talking about it, they said a second plane stuck. The commentator was saying, “I’m watching the television of the flaming first building, and a second plane has just hit the second building!” At that second, we realized, “Oh my God! This is terrorism.” Junior: That’s when I screamed out. CBA: All perception changed, right at that moment. [To Senior] Did you go to the television? Senior: Yeah, we went home right after the buildings collapsed. It was like a bad dream, the whole thing was so horrible. CBA: The weird thing was, it kept getting worse! One plane, two planes, tower one collapses, tower two collapses, then hardly any survivors getting to the hospital… it was like they just vanished. Junior: With the collapse of the first tower, that’s when I screamed. We both screamed out loud. Senior: I thought of the people above the fire where the planes hit: “Oh, my God! There are thousands of people in those buildings who are being snuffed out by the smoke and flames!” When the towers collapsed, that was beyond belief. God, that was so awful, but to see those buildings collapse! I said, “No, they’re not going down, they can’t be going down! No!” CBA: I remember trying to desperately wish them back up, “Go back up, go back up!” Junior: Dad said to me, “I want the building back! This doesn’t make any sense!” Now, I remember watching the World Trade Center towers go up to begin with! I saw them being built in the late ’60s and early ’70s. CBA: Driving over here this morning, crossing the Throg’s Neck Bridge, there’s a beautiful profile of Manhattan and it’s so jarring not to see those landmarks. Junior: It looks as if somebody chopped two sections out of a mountain range. It makes no sense. When the two buildings came down, I fell to my knees and started crying. I recall reading that upwards of 50,000 workers occupied the WTC during the day. CBA: Never mind who might be visiting. Junior: Exactly, or who’s on the ground, or in the connecting buildings. The word, “50,000 people” came out. I yelled out, “50,000 f-ing people!” My wife starts hugging me, and then said, “We’re going to be at war. Oh, my God. My son’s going to be 18.” [To Senior] I called you when the second one went down. CBA: Was it good, in a way, to work your feelings out about such a tragedy, to a degree? Junior: One thing I learned from my parents eventually, is that whatever problems you have, if you hide them, they’re still going to stick with you and going to give you a poke in the ass. I’ve developed a strong defense mechanism when something really bad happens, I face it. The quickest way between two points, is a direct line. That’s the way to deal with them. But I didn’t want to deal with something this big. I had the news on all that day, had given blood, and went to the fire department to see if I could… I don’t know why. They weren’t there, so I went to a church and lit a candle. When I got back, the news was on, my wife wanted to turn it off, she said, “You can’t watch this; it’ll torture you.” I had to have it on, I had to watch it all day long. The next day, I got back to work, and didn’t know how I was going to get back to work, but I had to work, because I didn’t have a choice. Senior: I could not work for a week, maybe ten days. I could not turn out anything. My mind was not functioning. CBA: [To Senior] You had a tasteful piece in Heroes, the Marvel benefit 9/11 book. Senior: That was very hard for me. I had originally done a sketch on [the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania] Flight 93, because it was such a heroic, proactive act. They acted to save lives, at the sacrifice of their own. That’s the one story I latched onto. I did the sketch, sent it in, they liked it, but same afternoon, somebody sent in finished artwork, the exact same concept. When I found out I couldn’t do it, for two days, I didn’t do anything. I said to the editor, Ralph Macchio, July 2002

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“No, I can’t help you; I’ve already wrung myself out like a dishrag, and I don’t think I can go through another one.” But I hit upon the idea of a fireman’s widow, and said, “Well, at least I can contribute that.” So I understood exactly what my son was going through, I could not make myself do a drawing! Junior: After I got back to work, they called me and said, “Do you want to do a pin-up for the Heroes book?” I said, “Yeah,” and I told them I had an idea of having the members of the armed services, firemen, and police, all lined up in heroic poses, because we’re going to war. I was thinking everybody in uniform, even sanitation workers, EMS workers… but I didn’t get to do a double-page spread like I wanted to, but a single page… I even got Rudy Guliani in it. While the other contributors to Heroes did their pin-ups and then were done, I had this gigantic, emotional task of Amazing Spider-Man #36 in front of me, and I didn’t know how bad it was going to be until I got through with the opening spread. That was like pulling out teeth. But, then I realized I had 20 pages to go. Senior: You were talking to me daily. [To CBA] I tried to keep his spirits up, because he was getting more and more depressed and frustrated, because of the time it was taking. It took him five times longer!

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hangovers). Now that I’m done, it’s a blur. Even though it took me a month, and it was Junior: I couldn’t do a quick version of it, couldn’t cheat on it, couldn’t do fast pencils. I needed more reference, and the more reference built, the more the nightmares the longest month of my life, it’s still a blur to me now. I usually can remember pages I’m working on, but that was a dark, dark month… of course, for everybody! Let alone continued, and the more horrors plagued me. My wife was upset because I was working on it like this. But there were some people who could turn it off and go run miserable, didn’t want to get to work, and had to sit down at my desk and cry. Then and go to the gym, and I just couldn’t get away from the desk! came the stories of the heroics, and we didn’t know how many people had died—from Senior: I don’t think a lot of guys could’ve done that book. I know I could not have. 10,000 to 50,000—and I’d have the news on behind me, and the artwork in front of For me, one of the great achievements in comics was Ross Andru’s artwork on the me, and my wife would come in and turn the television off. I said, “I can’t; I’ve got to crossover, Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man. I looked at that book in the original listen.” So, yeah, it accelerated the finality of it for me, the healing. It may have pages, and I said, “I don’t think there’s anybody in this business who could’ve done that calloused me in a way, I don’t know. Getting through that didn’t make it easier, but book without losing it, except Ross Andru.” The double-page spread over the city from maybe it accelerated the healing by being able to stand up to it, gave me a calloused the Empire State Building was heart, maybe. Then, when staggeringly sensational. He people would ask me about was a guy who didn’t usually the comic book, I wouldn’t make a big impact, and was feel as horrified, because I had taken for granted. But he was taken it all in, and read all a guy who really was very, those articles! I saw all the very good, but he labored photographs, and drew them over his work, and sometimes into the story. his talent didn’t come across. CBA: Are you surprised that CBA: Did you suggest the effect of these benefit that Ross replace you on the books have been so positive? regular Spider-Man title? I mean, it could have been Senior: He was already generally interpreted very primed and ready to do it. I badly, almost opportunistic. loved his stuff and was a fan. Senior: I’m amazed and Junior: I thought that book shocked that the effort was great, too. I loved it. worked as well as it did. Senior: He didn’t have a CBA: It got comics more and better press than anything pretty, glamorous style, but in the last ten years. he was so good at the nuts and bolts, and I think nobody Junior: Unfortunately for could’ve done that Treasury the wrong reasons. CBA: But, perhaps it did as well as that. Nobody, turn out to be the proper except maybe Kirby. response? CBA: Only Jack wouldn’t have drawn Superman or Junior: The comics and the Spider-Man correctly. people in the industry handled Junior: Didn’t Ross Andru it well. work on Superman, too? Senior: I’m amazed. If we CBA: A little bit with Mike were the decision-makers, it Esposito, in the late ’60s. might not have happened. I Senior: Right. In the same would’ve shied away from way, this [taps Amazing that approach. CBA: Was the WTC attack Spider-Man #36] is an a personal affront to you guys equivalent. I think this is as native New Yorkers? Did where they also got the right you take it personally? guy for this job. I don’t Senior: Of course, so close believe a lot of other guys to our home is scary. I was in could’ve done it. Delaware, he’s in California, Junior: I don’t think these and I couldn’t get back home are my best pencils over for a few days because the them, though I may have told bridges were blocked. the story better than I ever Junior: I felt so guilty. had. Maybe I got some good CBA: About not being in angles and nice shots in, but I New York? remember my hand shaking. CBA: I agree with your Junior: I should’ve been father. You were highly sitting next to my parents. Above and opposite page: John Romita, Jr. rough and finished cover for Spider-Man: The Lost Years #3, as inked by appropriate for the job. Senior: He wanted to go Junior: Maybe because I down to Ground Zero and help! Klaus Janson. Courtesy of the Romitas. Above art ©2002 JR Jr. Right art, Spider-Man ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. was doing Spider-Man. I’m telling him, “You’re crazy, John, there are so many more volunteers.” CBA: No, I meant by your depiction of the city, putting humanity into the rubble. I CBA: Did you go down there? can’t explain it any better than to say that you understood New York City. Junior: No, they wouldn’t let me down. CBA: [To Junior] You’ve been interviewed by the mainstream press about Spider-Man Senior: That’s exactly what I meant. #36, right? Junior: I’m a fan of architecture, the buildings and the angles of Manhattan. In fairness to [inker] Scott Hanna, I may have been at my peak at penciling, but Scott Junior: Yeah, I’ve never been interviewed as much. In magazines, television and really did his best work on it. He should get as much credit as anybody, as well as the newspapers…. Working on that comic book was more… cathartic isn’t the word, but it colorist and editors. freed me. It took everything I had ever learned in comics from him [points to Senior], Senior: I think this is a classic case of being in the right place at the right time. That’s and it took every bit of energy to do. I know it sounds corny, and I’d laugh at a movie the first time that’s ever happened to you. Serendipity’s there. star who said that, but this was like I was being drained of blood by a vampire. I felt physically and emotionally drained, I didn’t want to work—and that’s the first time in all Junior: Unfortunately, for the wrong reasons. I’ve been offered substantial money for the original artwork, but I can’t sell it. I’d get shot by my wife if I sold it. I can’t put it in of my art career that I didn’t like getting down to my drawing table (except for bad 34-B

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This spread: Four pages of a beautiful son and father collaboration. Senior calls this his most faithful inking job over Junior’s pencils ever. What mood and atmospherics! From Amazing Spider-Man #400. Courtesy of the Romitas. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Above and opposite page: As we’d be loathe to neglect John Jr.’s recent masterwork on the Bruce Jones-scripted Hulk, we’re including these delightful pages of Spidey romping with the big green guy from Peter Parker, Spider-Man #14, inked by Scott Hanna. Courtesy of Cyrus Voris. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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frames. I don’t want that stuff looking over my house! I’ll keep them, and seal them hermetically. Senior: You’d sacrificed enough already. CBA: You guys are on the same wavelength a lot, right? Junior: I think I’d be a better artist if I did. I’m not as good as him. Senior: Actually, we have different tastes. He likes horror movies, I don’t. Junior: I like scary movies. but not slasher movies. Senior: But really, on an emotional level, we understand each other very well. CBA: [To Junior] Do you count him as a friend? Junior: I’ll put this as succinctly as I can: My father is my hero, my teacher, and he’s the best man I’ll ever know. It’s quite simple to say that.

Senior: You’re back in the will, kid. [laughter] CBA: Well, there that is, and it’s on tape! [laughter] When your father would come home frustrated with things at work, would you know it right off? [To Senior] Would you share your professional life with your family? Senior: Yeah, I think so. Although, if I were struggling, I wouldn’t always be whining. Junior: I never knew him to complain! He may have complained to my mother, but never to us. CBA: When your father had to take over Fantastic Four after Jack left Marvel, did you know that it was agonizing for him? Junior: No, I didn’t feel what he went through. He didn’t let it out. I don’t think he wanted us to feel like he was weak at any point. If he had anxieties— Senior: I kept them to myself. A lot of times, I didn’t want to scare them. CBA: Were you a comics fan yourself as a kid? Junior: Yes. After finding out about DD #12, I started reading Kirby, Buscema and my father’s stuff, naturally. Then I would go back and would read his run on SpiderMan. I would read it all through, every book, all over again. I’d put the whole stack down, sit in there and read through the comics, all the way through them. All of Kirby’s Fantastic Four run, his Thor run… I’d just take them all down from the closet and look through them, one by one. I became a fan all through high school, and into college I was a fan. CBA: Did you want to meet the artists you admired? Junior: Yeah! I got a chance, because I used to go up to the offices as a young teenager. On a summer day, when I was out of school, he let me go up to the office with him. In the late ’60s, he let me go. I remember being up with Herb Trimpe, John Verpoorten and Marie Severin. Stan was in the office, Stu Schwartzberg, Larry Lieber and Morrie Kuramoto was there. So I met those people. I didn’t meet many of the artists. I met Jack Kirby many, many years later in San Diego, but I met a lot of the artists as they would come through the office. I met Roy Thomas, Gil Kane… as long as I wasn’t too much of a pain in the ass, I could sit around and watch! In the summer days, when there was nothing to do, I’d go up to the office with him, hang out and back on the train with him, and it was all a thrill. CBA: When did you say, “This is for me! This is what I want to do.”? Junior: During high school, when I realized I didn’t excel at anything else. [laughter] My father insisted that I get some higher education if I wanted to work in comics. He said, “If you’re going to work in this business, you have to get at least two years of college.” I said, “Okay.” The day of commencement, I was up at Marvel working instead of picking up my sheepskin. I was immediately under contract. CBA: What school did you go to? Junior: SUNY [State University of New York] at Farmingdale. I majored in advertising and illustration, and got my associate’s degree in advertising/illustration. It was a great curriculum: Design, anatomy, drawing, design and color painting. One teacher, who called me too straight, was a ’60s love child who became a painting instructor, and got his master’s degree by writing that freaky paintings he did where done while on drugs. [laughter] He told me I should loosen up. I said, “You sound just like my high school teacher.” I did very well in school, but I didn’t know if I wanted to be an advertising guy right away, I wanted to see how comics went, knowing I could eventually get something in advertising. See if it didn’t work in comics, then I could get somewhere in advertising. I knew what I was doing. I designed sets, could paint and function as an illustrator. Still, I went to Marvel, and they gave me work, then more work, and I was having fun, and that’s it! Now it’s been 25 years! [laughter] How long had you been at Marvel? Senior: Thirty years in the office. Junior: How long before that? Senior: I started in 1950. Virginia Romita: I had 20 years on staff, and I don’t remember COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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how many years on per diem. Senior: About a year. Virginia: [To Senior] You used to tell me the house had not been cleaned. [laughter] Junior: Dad said that? [laughter] Virginia: He said he didn’t want me to work. Senior: [Looking through a Captain America comic he drew] Did you ever hear the story about this character in Captain America? That’s Sgt. Muldoon. Stan asked me to do an updated version of Sgt. Duffy from the early Captain Americas, and I used Jack Kirby as the model. CBA: [To Junior] Did you collect comics? Junior: No, not really. Senior: No, he never did.

CBA: [To Senior] But you held onto all your stuff, right? Senior: I have copies of my run on Spider-Man, but they are pretty banged up. I also have a bound set of my first few years on Spidey. I got them bound. CBA: [To Junior] Were you a little nervous about going into Marvel being John Romita, Junior? Senior: Not until he started hearing it from some idiots’ mouths. Junior: I was always nervous that I was going to get fired if I didn’t meet the deadlines, always afraid I was going to get canned. Shooter was always lording over me and making me feel like if I don’t get it fast enough, the axe would fall. CBA: Did you have a hard time with Shooter? Junior: Not at the beginning. We got along really well. Then Jim, Bob Layton and I started going out, and he couldn’t separate the COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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social and the business end of it. The social affected the professional, and that’s what caused trouble. That was a big mistake! CBA: Have you talked to him since? Junior: I haven’t spoken to him in so long. I worked with him on Star Brand, and after he left Marvel, I haven’t spoken to him since. CBA: [To Junior] You’re a Marvel artist, but were you ever offered work from another company? Junior: In between contracts, DC did come after me, but they’ve always stopped short of offering me any particular assignment. They said, “We’d love to have you, but don’t have anything to offer.” They wanted me to come up with my own character for them. They said, “We just can’t give you Batman or Superman. There are people here who’ve earned their dues, and you haven’t, so you have to get in line.” I’m not going to go back to the bottom of the ladder after July 2002

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spending 25 years at Marvel. CBA: Would you like to do Batman? You seem like a natural. Junior: I don’t know. If the circumstances were right, I’d do it. CBA: You’ve got the mood down. Junior: That’s not going to happen as long as Marvel is happy with me. If Marvel gets disenchanted with me or vice-versa possibly, but as Mike Carlin is there, they won’t hand me anything. I have to earn it! [laughter] I don’t want to go through that again! CBA: Did Image give you a call when they were forming? Junior: Yes. Jim Lee very nicely came to me and said, “Listen, we’re starting up a company, and we’d like to know if you’d come along.” At the time, I was doing The X-Men, and I said, “That’s a very nice offer, but no thank you.” CBA: Have you always had a pragmatic look at things? 41-B

This spread: Certainly, few other comic book artists were more profoundly affected by the tragedy of September 11, 2001, as John Romita, Jr., who drew the “Black” issue of Spider-Man #36 which dealt directly with the attack and the World Trade Center recovery effort. JR Jr. received quite a bit of media coverage— from The New York Times to CNN to his local San Diego newspaper—as evidenced here with the NYT and New York Daily News clippings. John, Sr. contributed to another Marvel response, Heroes, which featured a full-page illustration. Opposite, courtesy of Spider-Man assistant editor John Miesegaes and Marvel Comics, is a full-page splash of Spider-Man encountering the monumental destruction. This image was digitally manipulated by Ye Ed. Articles courtesy of the Romitas and ©2002 the respective copyright holders. Heroes and SpiderMan ©2002 Marvel Characters. Inc. 42-B

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Above: Regretfully, we don’t feature any pages of John Romita, Jr.’s outstanding work on Thor, but courtesy of Cyrus Voris, we did receive photocopies of JR Jr.’s art on the Amalgam Comics’ Thorion of the New Asgods, a rare peek at the artist’s superb pencils. Art ©2002 John Romita, Jr. Thorian ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. and DC Comics.

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Junior: I did what I thought my father would do. I showed you my lack of initiative, I was more afraid of doing things for fear of messing up. CBA: Have you ever gone through a period of not making much money? Of being without? Junior: I always worked. I don’t know if I was ever as smart as he was with money. I had a good time when I had money. CBA: [To Senior] You were afraid of being let go, afraid that you wouldn’t have any money. Senior: That was always hanging over us. CBA: [Referring to Junior] But that wasn’t hanging over him, particularly, was it? Senior: We always felt the bubble was going to burst any minute! We never dreamed it was going to last but it has, so far. The last ten years have been very comfortable for us. Junior: I was always afraid of being without money, and I had a bad marriage. CBA: How long were you married to your first wife? Junior: About four or five years, and she really did a job on me. CBA: Did you have any children from that? Junior: Fortunately, no, but that’s a disaster that shows you how stupid I am. I hope she reads this! [laughter] I have since married

Kathy and we’re doing things the proper way now. I always feared I would be without money. I never overspent, but did get in hock with my first marriage for a while. I had to pull myself out of that. That was during the marriage, and I had to do it myself. And I did, because things got better at Marvel. CBA: Would you ever be ready to take a risk, like those Image guys, with a creator-owned property? Junior: Yeah. I don’t think I would ever take a risk unless I was given a guarantee. [laughter] I’m able to do one book a month, with enough time to be able to do some side work. Right now, while things might pan out in another field, I’ll never quit my day job. I’ll always keep my head straight with that. If I get invitations to do things, and any of the things I come up with get accepted, I will approach those half-cocked, so to speak, first, and if it’s successful, where I know I have something lined up, I’ll try it. But I’m not going to quit Marvel full-time until I know I’m guaranteed a good amount of work. And that doesn’t happen in Hollywood! You never get guaranteed work! But if you’re successful a couple of times, then you can pretty much make enough money once or twice a year that it’ll take care of you. In the meantime, I can still do Spider-Man or a monthly title. CBA: [To Senior] You’ve plotted Spider-Man. Have you guys ever written scripts? Junior: No, never. Senior: And he could. I don’t think I could, because I would be changing it until the minute it was due. Junior: Well, I think we’ve both written, but never dialogued. Senior: He’s done some wonderful writing. Dialogue is something I haven’t tried much yet… although occasionally I wrote dialogue in the margins. Junior: I enjoyed the creative writing courses I took in college, and I did well in them. Between reading novels on my own, and being around writers all these years, I probably could. Senior: I think you could. Junior: But I’d be amazed to find out how difficult it was, once I started it. I feel like I’ve been part of the writing process. CBA: [To Junior] One thing I look at you as far different from most artists—certainly almost all artists of your generation—is you took a very systematic, practical, pragmatic approach to your art. You started off being—to me, as a fan—looking at it as very dense, a lot of panels to a page, and you’ve progressed to double-page spreads, and you’re more relaxed as a storyteller, you’ve really opened up. You’ve paid your dues! Junior: That’s fair enough to say that. CBA: So what’s the difference between self-assuredness and tackling the written word? Senior: You need to sharpen that skill. If you write as an artist in this business, you don’t get paid for it while you’re practicing, while you’re learning. They’re not going to pay him to learn how to write. He’d have to be polished when he gets his first assignment. He could write on his own, in his spare time, start dictating to himself and start writing. CBA: But polished is an impression. Senior: It’s a knack. It’s not a simple thing. You can put too many words in, and find yourself cutting your own throat. To be economical with words, otherwise…. Chris Claremont puts a lot of words in his stuff, but I don’t think we could get away with putting so many words, and you wouldn’t want to. CBA: Why would you want to? Senior: That’s the thing! To have it flow out is not an easy thing. You’ve got the rudiments of storytelling down. CBA: Both of you’ve got the rudiments of storytelling down. It’s a visual medium! Senior: He can conceive and execute writing, I am more adept at taking somebody else’s basic plot and making it better. That’s my forté. CBA: The Marvel approach is vastly different than what was ever done in comic books before. Gil Kane would complain that he was doing twice the amount of work for only half the amount of pay, so to speak. You’re problem-solving details of the plot while you’re drawing. Isn’t that the writer’s job? Senior: What Gil and I used to argue and I told him, “Yes, it is an COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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imposition on us, but it also is a freedom, because when you’re bound by a script, your parameters are absolutely narrow… you can only go so far. When you have a plot that gives you wide latitude, that becomes easier for you, because an artist can be selective and put in things that are natural to him, that he loves to do. When you do it from a script, you are forced to do what has been written.” I always told him, “You may think this is taking you time, this may free you and make it easier for you, because you can choose the shots that are natural, you don’t have to sweat over shots that are unnatural.” CBA: As a matter of fact, Gil did take advantage of that, and so did you! You were able to flesh it out accordingly. Senior: I thought I was going to die the first time I did it. CBA: Were you ambivalent about it? Senior: You mean, was I doing Stan’s job? I’ll tell you two things: First, I thought since I had a wider latitude, it was a better thing to do, an easier thing in some ways. Time-wise, maybe I did lose a day or two on every storyline. But I also think we ended up with a better product, and that’s beneficial for both the writer and the artist, because that’s what we did. That is absolutely an immediate benefit. As soon as Stan had the original art to go from, he wrote things that were never in his mind! Expressions we did. John does some little tricks with figures that the writer would’ve never thought of. For instance, if Spider-Man’s snapping his fingers because John did it, the writer now has all of this great irony he can work with. Spider-Man is snapping his fingers with some authority, maybe it wasn’t even thought of with the plot! So now the writer has all of these things! Stan always said it liberated him to do much better dialogue and much better captions, because the picture was there. Instead of these vague images he had in his own head, hoping we could match them, this is much better. CBA: Was that cool with you? Senior: I never felt put upon, but I did feel the strain— because it is hard work—and I used to have to beg Stan for help. But I would’ve felt a different kind of strain, and a much worse constriction, with a script. At DC, I suffered for years with full scripts, which Stan didn’t put me through. CBA: [To Junior] Although now you’re working with scripts. Senior: You’re the one to tell him, how’s it working with scripts? CBA: [To Senior] Who did you deal with at DC? Larry Nadel? Senior: No, I dealt with a female editor, Phyllis Reed, my editor for most of my tenure. I worked on Bob Kanigher’s scripts, which I found constrictive, and I used to make changes. CBA: To Bob’s scripts? I’m sure you heard about it! Senior: Yes, he chewed me out in an elevator once. But I find that with scripts, you have problems that you don’t have when you plot it yourself. There are problems when you’re nailed down to a certain pacing, you’re stuck with it. He has to call up all the time! He says, whenever there’s a choice, choose the visual. He has told him, “If you feel this is not visual enough, do your own visual.” Junior: It allowed me a lot of leeway. Senior: That’s very important, and he learned a very good lesson, too, because that’s like letting a good director take your screenplay and do things with it you never anticipated. That’s exactly what it is. CBA: Did you have ambivalence about the Marvel method? Junior: No, because I grew up with it. It’s the best way to do it! The artist should decide the visuals. As long as you stick to the crux of what the writer wants—and I always work with writers who over-explain what they wanted, but said, “Do as you see.” And if they did have something they were very steadfast about, they’d say, “Listen, this is important, stick to this visual,” and then after this…. One extreme is Chris Claremont, who wrote a tome, and then John Byrne would give me one paragraph for 22 pages! I had a blast with an Iron Man issue, because it was all up to me. And John Byrne put my name first! John Byrne and Frank Miller were two of the most pleasurable collaborators I ever had to work with because they are artists first. CBA: [To Junior] Did you ever work on a plot by Stan Lee? Junior: I actually have a script for a Fantastic Four one-shot, that I have to begin soon. Stan wrote it. It’s a double-sized one-shot of Fantastic Four. It will be his final Fantastic Four. Senior: We’ll call it Just Imagine What Stan Lee Would’ve Done If He’d Created Fantastic Four, like the DC stuff! [laughter] Junior: Oh, that’s cold! [laughter] Working from plots is the way I grew up in the business and I got used to using my own initiative. July 2002

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Above: In recent years, John Romita, Jr.’s most appreciated work was in various Spider-Man titles and Thor. For this interview’s send-off, here’s a collaboration piece by father and son featuring the web-slinger and God of Thunder. Courtesy of Cyrus Voris. Art ©2002 The Romitas. Characters ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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A Feminine Perspective

Virginia’s View

Senior’s spouse and Junior’s mother (and a lot more!) talks by Blake Bell [Editor’s Note: Comic Book Artist is proud to give readers a sneak peek at Blake Bell’s forthcoming examination of the perspective of comic book creators’ spouses, I Have to Live with This Guy!, due in August from TwoMorrows Publishing, with this look at the wife of John Romita, Sr., and mother of John, Jr., Virginia Romita, who was a respected staffer at Marvel Comics in her own right for many years before her retirement. This excerpt—as well as Muriel Kubert’s recollections in our flip section—were specially crafted by Blake for this “Father & Sons” issue of CBA, extracted from their respective sections in the writer’s book, and they appear here with the women’s permission. Along with Virginia and Muriel, the tome also features looks at the relationships between such couples as Ann and Will Eisner, Joan and Stan Lee, Adele and Harvey Kurtzman, Adrienne and Gene Colan, Josie and Dan DeCarlo, Lindy and Dick Ayers, Deni Loubert and Dave Sim, Eddie Sedarbaum and Howard Cruse, Jackie Estrada and Batton Lash, Melinda Gebbie and Alan Moore, Julie and Dave Cooper and more! Now, let’s get on with the show!—Y.E.]

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John Salvatore Romita Jr. is born August 17, 1956—younger brother to the family’s first son, Victor—in the family’s tiny bungalow in Queens. “They never paid attention to what their father did, when he was doing the romance—never even looked. When he started doing Daredevil, John Jr. would just hang over his shoulder watching every stroke he made. “That’s when Jr. decided that he was going to be an artist—he was nine. His father would be drawing at the board and Junior would be over in another corner somewhere with loads of paper pencilling, madly. He wouldn’t let us look at a single thing. He filled up the trash up to the wazoo. But he wouldn’t let us touch it. He said that he wasn’t ready for anybody to look at it.” Imprinted in Virginia’s mind is Avengers #23. John receives the Don Heck pencilled pages in the fall of ‘65, and the kids go wild. John’s published work had been around the house before but this is different. “They just never looked at them until that Avengers book. They then began to read every comic book that he brought into the house.” Junior’s desire to enter the comic book field is unusually ferocious for a youngster. The artistic streak the youngest Romita exhibits is foreign to mother and father. “He was determined to work in comics. He took art classes when he was in school, and did very well. Of course, they thought he was too ‘comicy,’ but it just

blossomed. He got better and better.” John Jr. may have a famous artist in the house, but he doesn’t follow his father’s style, and has little interest in his input. “Junior was crazy about John Buscema’s stuff,” says Virginia. “He preferred not to show his father anything. If he did, Senior would correct him, and he didn’t want to be corrected.” The ’70s begin and father has become Stan Lee’s right hand. Not only has Romita taken over from Steve Ditko on Amazing Spider-Man (as far back as the summer of ’66), but he has become the company’s de facto art director. He has permanent employment. While Junior is in school, he accompanies his father to the office on off-days. “Little by little, he got friendly with the people there and Marie Severin offered him some work,” says Virginia. Son is put on staff with father—a recipe for trouble. “His father didn’t recommend him for any position. He didn’t want anyone to think he was trying to push his son on Marvel. Junior actually was the last person that accepted the job. It was offered to many before he was put on staff.” As to the quality of his son’s work, John has trouble believing his son is worthy. “His father never felt it was good enough. They kept this distance, between father and son. Jr. felt as long as someone at the office liked what he did, that was okay. He didn’t care, as long as he got in there. “There were no hidden feelings,” says Virginia about father’s lack of push for his son at the company. “It’s not as if Senior tried to stop him from getting work. He just wouldn’t recommend him for any particular work. Despite all of that, a lot of his peers thought that he got in there because of Senior, which was not the case.” Virginia had spent the ’50s and ’60s worrying about her freelancing husband not having enough work to survive, and now she has to experience the same fears with her own son. “I thought, ‘Well, this kid isn’t going to get any work. He’s gonna starve.’ But he just persevered.” One of Junior’s strengths—also one of the obstacles he will have to overcome—is his social skills. “Comics was something for the weekday,” says Virginia, “and the weekend was just fun and games with his friends. He didn’t feel like his whole life was comics. There was this weekend long cruise in New York Bay and the ship had spread a net across the empty ship board pool. About a half-a-dozen or more of the Marvel people fell right into it! Luckily, they didn’t hit bottom! This big net supported their weight across this pool. I guess the ship wanted to make sure no one fell into the pool in a tipsy fashion. “John now has a wife and son and works very hard. He set a world record for doing sketches to help with his niece’s medical bills. We did that a couple of weeks ago in a New York hotel. He was up 48 hours straight.” Now, a difference in approach to their art is noticeable to mother. “Junior is better. Junior works from early in the morning, sometimes into the night. Most times he tries to have his evenings free and his weekend free. His father was never that disciplined. “Senior sees how Junior has improved. By the 1980s, Junior had become a good storyteller, but was doing ‘breakdowns’ to save time. The downside was that the ‘finishing/inking’ was not what he wanted. So, he decided, ‘If I do full pencils, the inking will be closer to my style.’ This meant longer hours and less income. He worked so hard to be a better penciller and it took years, but he did it. His father was thrilled because he thought Jr. might have become a ‘hack’ artist. From then on, he just kept improving.” COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

July 2002

Mother and father know their son well. By the time Junior takes over the reins of Thor, in early ‘98, his work has improved dramatically, putting him aside Kirby and the Buscemas in terms of pure adrenaline and power. At the turn of the century, it also puts him back on the book his father helped make famous in the ’60s—Amazing Spider-Man. The youngest Romita son almost disappeared in the ’90s, but has established himself a beachhead at his father’s old company as perhaps the most popular artist—certainly the most consistent; qualitatively and quantitatively. “He worked so hard for that,” says Virginia. “You have to admire him. He just never quit. His income was reduced by half and I thought, ‘He’ll never stick to it,’ but he did.” But this is only half of the legacy of the Romitas at Marvel Comics. Lee, Kirby, Ditko, Romita, Buscema, and Colan may make Marvel look like a creative powerhouse on the outside, but by the end of the ’60s, the innards look like a tornado has run through it. The men had created chaos out of order, and it will take a woman with the moxy of Virginia Romita to come in, clean house, and get the company’s standards of professionalism up to snuff. “When my older boy decided he didn’t want to teach anymore, he applied for a job at Marvel to become an editor. I thought, ‘Oh, my God. If Marvel goes under, there’s four of us that are going to be out of work!’ You can blame Virginia’s time at Marvel on the family’s narrow driveway. With both sons, and father, out of the household all day, Virginia begins to pine for a career again. “I didn’t start working for Marvel because of the money—I got lonely. I hadn’t developed a really good social life. That’s one of the regrets I have—my social life was being with John and my sons. “I thought I’d stick price tags on cans at the supermarket. I was determined to get a job I could walk to. We didn’t have room for a third car in our driveway. That’s when John said ‘Would you come in and straighten out my office?’ It was about the time he had been asked to be art director.” “Straightening out his office” turns into straightening out an entire company. “You have to understand,” says Virginia. “Marvel was so disorganized, no files kept, no one knew where anything was. It was slap dash. You had to go digging in piles of stuff to look for Xeroxes. It was terrible. “I loved to organize. I love to straighten out. I loved to create order out of chaos. They thought I was a genius because whenever something had to be found, I would dig it up and find it. Marvel was a God-awful mess. Nothing could be found.” When John Sr. first joins Marvel, according to Virginia, he goes July 2002

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

into the office three days a week. Once he becomes art director, it’s every day, but her husband’s job doesn’t end at five o’clock. “They were small little rooms at Marvel. He would go in, come home and work freelance. It’s not as if he just worked at the office. Early on, he got a weekly salary, but he had to earn it by pages. He had a quota. So it was a continuation of freelance, but a little more regulated. “After a while, he didn’t have to keep a quota and they made him an art director. He had boxes of art submissions that he couldn’t get to. I didn’t get paid, I just went in to help him.” Nancy Murphy is head of Marvel’s subscription department at the time. When her assistant falls ill, Nancy turns to Virginia. “Now I was getting paid,” says Virginia. “I was getting $25 a day, the three days I went in. Of course, I was delighted, now that I was making money.” John, however, wants his wife—and office helper—back. “John said, ‘When are you going to come back and help me?’ I said, ‘Well, Nancy needs me, I can’t leave her.’ I wasn’t going to go back to not getting paid. I mean, I loved him, but my God!

Above: Beautiful Junior and Senior collaboration on a 1995 Spider-Man calendar illustration. Courtesy of the Romitas. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. BLAKE BELL is one personable— and tall!—guy, friendly as hell and a talented writer to boot. But don’t let that fool you. All the fame, money and power he’ll doubtlessly receive after his book, “I Have to Live with This Guy!” is published this summer, will certainly go to Blake’s head. Then we’ll have to kill him. Still, Ye Ed thanks the author (!) for helping this special issue of “Fathers & Sons” to have a smidgen of the women’s point of view.—Y.E. 47-B

Editor’s Note We’d be remiss if we didn’t acknowledge the assistance of ANDREW FARAGO of San Francisco’s Cartoon Art Museum, where an Art of Spider-Man retrospective was recently exhibited (sadly, we’re too late to properly plug the event as it will be ending on July 15). Andrew generously shared with us numerous photos of father and son of which we’ve only used one (on page 3). Thank you very much, A.F.! Sorry we could only use that one pic. 48-B

“He then spoke to Stan, saying, ‘I’d like her to come and work for me, I need the help. Can we pay her $25 a day?’ So I left Nancy and worked on a per diem for him, three days a week.” After not having worked for eons, the woman managing the money for the household develops a rather clingy approach to the funds she’s earning. “This was such a stupid thing I did. Every time I got paid, I’d cash it and have my $75 and put it in my wallet. I had to hold it. I had to carry it with me until my wallet got so thick I couldn’t fit anymore money in it. “John said, ‘You can’t walk around with all that money. Why don’t you put it in the bank?’ I said, ‘No, I can’t put it in the bank.’ John said, ‘Well, what are you going to do with it?’ “I said, ‘I have to think about it.’ I thought about it and I bought us a TV.” When questioned as to why she kept a firm grasp on the mounting wad of bills, Virginia laughs. “Because it was my money. If I had put it in the bank, I wouldn’t be able to touch it! I got over it. It hurt me to give that money to buy the TV, though!” She finally meets Stan, but it is still only in passing. “It was just meeting in the hall. He’d come in, talk—a word here and there—but there was not some sort of social life involved. “I liked him. I thought he was great. A little hyper, and I would get upset when John would have to make these crazy little corrections. A lot of times I would stay late at the office and help do some of the production. I’d run to the Xerox or whatever it was that John would need. That would irritate me a little bit, not so much at Stan, but having to do this painstaking work, what I thought were petty corrections. John had the patience to just do them. “When the pages would come in—whether it was John Buscema pages or Jack Kirby’s—everyone would just flock around the

Xerox machine and admire them. They wanted their own copies, whether they were looking at the artwork itself or the back of the pages. Especially John Buscema—but I think Jack Kirby, too—would do sketches on the back of the pages, so the artwork was Xeroxed front and back.” Just don’t mention the owner of the company. “I only knew him the short time he was there until he sold Marvel. He wouldn’t have known me. He was a paper clip counter. So, we won’t talk about Martin Goodman.” There’s no deadline like a syndicated strip deadline, and Virginia does not look back on that with fondness at her husband’s stint on the Spider-Man newspaper strip. “You could say that I was John’s secretary, you could say I was John’s gopher. After he began to do the Spider-Man strip, I worked along with him, helping him do the production. It just never ended because he was doing the strip and his job. We just never saw light of day. He figured when it was big enough, he would give up his job as art director. It had to proven to him first. “At some point,” Virginia remembers, “he felt that it wasn’t going to grow. The strip might endure, but it wasn’t going to get as big as he thought it would be to satisfy him, so he decided to give it up. “When John began to do the strip, they gave Marie Severin some of his responsibilities. She became the art director, and I went to work for her, doing whatever I had been doing for John. Whatever she needed—correspondence or answering submissions for her—I did just about everything over there.” When Shooter is handed the reins, he strips Marie of her duties and has her on staff only as a senior artist. Virginia is offered the position of working with Lenny Grow. “He was the production manager at this time. So, I became his assistant… his secretary, not so much his assistant.” Under Shooter, Lenny doesn’t last long. Stan Lee leaves for California and the company needs someone to run his New York office. “I didn’t want to work for him,” says Virginia. “I began to feel like the kiss of death. Whoever I worked for was moved out. I said, ‘I can’t work for Stan’ and Shooter said, ‘Work for me.’ I became Shooter’s secretary. I loved it. He was great. He was a wonderful boss.” Ms. Severin, however, does not share the Romitas’ initial opinion. “She’s a great artist,” says Virginia, “but she became a little unhappy with how Shooter ran things. She expected to have a little more say in who was working for Marvel. “Shooter didn’t want, or like, that. They had a bit of a disagreement there. That’s probably why there was a parting of the ways. She was a good gal. We used to go to lunch. We see her now at the Cartoonists Society—the Berndt Toast luncheon once a month.” Marvel Comics has two prominent women working for them in the 1970s, at only the beginning of the feminist revolution. Comics has always been a male-dominated industry, based on male-fantasy fulfillment (of a questionable, subconsciously, homoerotic nature). The deck is stacked against a member of the opposite sex making headway in the company. Marie and Virginia are trailblazers in this respect, and do face hardship on the job, Marie especially. “It was a stressful time for her because everything changed at Marvel. At one point, Stan decided he wanted the title of art director. He was looking for a higher salary. Instead of giving the title to Marie as art director, he made her art editor. That was the beginning of the end for her. She was so upset about that. She felt it was done to her because she was a woman. I can understand. I would have been a little angry myself.” Virginia’s experience is the opposite, except for one man. “I got along with everyone except Barry Kaplan. He was vice-president of finance. He thought I was being given a salary and not doing any work. If I went to lunch with John and we would meet him on the street, he would say, ‘Hi, John.’ It was like I did not exist. It was so insulting to me, but you can’t say anything. I was just doing my job. “At some point he decided he would test me. He’d call me up and ask about certain bills or about certain machines. He was just testing to see if I knew what I was doing. He was trying to prove I was not earning my salary. It took a long time before he was convinced that I wasn’t there on John’s name.” COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

July 2002

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Last-minute bits about the Community of Comic Book Artists, Writers and Editors

The Comic Book Master is honored by the National Federation for Jewish Culture

EISNER GETS LIFE! A Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Federation of Jewish Culture, that is! The action on Monday night, June 4, 2002, was at the swanky Plaza Hotel in New York City where the most influential and significant comics creator of all time—Will Eisner to us!—was given the prestigious award by presenter (and comics genius in his own right) art spiegelman. The entire event was hosted by renowned movie and Broadway actor Theodore Bikel (who is also the only other person to have received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the organization). The stage backdrop for the entire affair was a blow-up of an Eisner street scene (specially drawn for the event by Will) and the creator’s appearance was

preceded by a short film clip, courtesy of documentarians Thom Powers and Alan Edelstein, featuring Will and art, who also regaled the high-falootin’ audience with an

amusing introductory speech—citing Will as one of the form’s most important innovators (as well as creator of the “assembly line” process of comics production) and perhaps the “youngest” practitioner of the form, at least in spirit, so to speak. The Pulitzer Prize-winning author

We’re Swamped! If Ye Ed is learning anything these days, it’s that patience is a virtue—especially appreciated when it’s the patience of co-authors! My pal George Khoury, who I recently traveled to England with for an interview with the World’s Greatest Comics Writer™, Alan Moore, has been extremely understanding in my difficulty in getting down to work on our forthcoming tome, Swampmen: Muck-Monsters of the Comics! We’re hoping for a Nov. or Dec. release, if I can get my act together. Art by Warren Kremer. In the meantime, we’re looking for appearances of little©2002 Harvey known creatures from the bayou (such as Casper’s Entertainment, Inc. encounter with Voo Doo Doo from Casper Giant Size #4, shown here). If you can help—especially with reference to the horror comics of the 1950s—might you consider sending us the info and maybe a photocopy? We also need the help of any experts on The Heap out there. While we can’t guarantee much more than credit in our book, we certainly would very much appreciate the effort!

Working on this special Kubert ish, we found out that DC Comics will be collecting those excellent “Enemy Ace” stories by Robert Kanigher and Joe Kubert that appeared in Our Army at War, Showcase, and Star Spangled War Stories in the 1960s. Set to appear in a (no doubt pricey) Archive Edition, these tales encompass perhaps the greatest war comic series ever (excepting Harvey Kurtzman’s EC titles, natch) as they detail the angst of the fatalistic World War One German air ace, a “killing machine” loathed by his peers and respected by his foes, in his quest to destroy the opposing fliers. This was a perfect comic book for those polarized days when the Vietnam War raged and the Armed Forces were hardly well respected. Kanigher’s scripts, bathed in an ambivalence about war, were always variations on the same theme—a haiku, if you will— which were expertly complemented by Kubert’s extraordinary artwork, full of pathos and moody atmospherics. Here is a compilation we at Casa CBA are eagerly awaiting.

SEE YOU IN SAN DIEGO! All of us at TwoMorrows hope to see as many readers as can make it out to the Big Show in San Diego this year (though we’re having difficulty deciding on who to root for in the Eisner Awards this year as both Comic Book Artist and Alter Ego are up for the same award this time around. Best of luck, Roy!). If you can attend, please be sure to drop by our booth and join us at our annual TwoMorrows panel. Have a great Summer!

Don’t Set In

CONCRETE While we’ve got major plans for the CBA issues to come, we don’t want to schedule all of ’em just yet. But just so you’re kept in the loop, here’s a look at some subjects for our upcoming issues: PAUL CHADWICK retrospective including a new cover and career-spanning interview with the acclaimed artist. The NATIONAL LAMPOON issue is a go! We’ve found legendary NatLamp art director Michael Gross, so expect this exhaustive survey (behind a new Gahan Wilson cover) by early 2003. We’ll be hawking a special AMERICA’S BEST COMICS ish, complete with ALAN MOORE interview as well as most of the ABC collaborators. On the flipside, KEVIN NOWLAN gets space all to his lonesome. MARK SCHULTZ and WILLIAM STOUT have agreed to be featured… hmmm, a “Dinosaurs in the Comics” ish? Plus we’ve a

gaggle of subjects to come, including INVASION FROM THE PHILIPPINES (co-edited by Mañuel Auad, with an Alex Niño spotlight), HIGH-CAMP HEROES of the ’60s (finishing up our look at the Batmania-era super-hero craze), TREASURE CHEST COMICS (with an allnew Joe Sinnott cover and interview), AFRICAN AMERICANS IN COMICS (co-edited by CBA pal Bill Foster), THE BRITISH INVASION, and COMICS and RELIGION (coedited by Alec Stevens). Don’t forget that we always welcome your suggestions, folks! Next issue, look for ADAM HUGHES backed with our JOHN BUSCEMA TRIBUTE; then there’s our GOLD KEY retrospective; this Fall we showcase MIKE MIGNOLA with a bodacious flip-side starring JILL THOMPSON and Scary Godmother, an ish we hope to have out for Halloween. Sound good?

Von Hammer Flies Again

of Maus also gave thanks for his latest career as a professional introductory speaker for Will. The creator of The Spirit was obviously delighted to receive the 2002 Jewish Cultural Achievement Award, profusely thanking the organization and stating this was important recognition for sequential art, a step closer in the acknowledgement as an American art form. All in all, a swell party was had by all (lensed entirely by Ye Ed, brother Andrew and our stalwart crew, Diego, Ben, and Chris!) and kudos to exec producer Scott H. Mauro for putting on the successful show, as well as production manager Stuart Weissman and our pal at the NFJC, Larry Pressman. Congrats, Will! We can’t think of a better recipient!

CBA’s Jon Cooke is back in April! Make ready for COMIC BOOK CREATOR, the new voice of the comics medium! TwoMorrows is proud to debut our newest magazine, COMIC BOOK CREATOR, devoted to the work and careers of the men and women who draw, write, edit, and publish comics, focusing always on the artists and not the artifacts, the creators and not the characters. Behind an ALEX ROSS cover painting, our frantic FIRST ISSUE features an investigation of the oft despicable treatment JACK KIRBY endured from the very business he helped establish. From being cheated out of royalties in the ’40s and bullied in the ’80s by the publisher he made great, to his estate’s current fight for equitable recognition against an entertainment monolith where his characters have generated billions of dollars, we present Kirby’s cautionary tale in the eternal struggle for creator’s rights. Plus, CBC #1 interviews artist ALEX ROSS and writer KURT BUSIEK, spotlights the last years of writer/artist FRANK ROBBINS, remembers comics historian LES DANIELS, sports a color gallery of WILL EISNER’s Valentines to his beloved, showcases a joint talk between NEAL ADAMS and DENNIS O’NEIL on their unforgettable collaborations, as well as throws a whole kit’n’caboodle of other creator-centric items atcha! Join us for the start of a new era as TwoMorrows welcomes back former Comic Book Artist editor JON B. COOKE, who helms the all-new, allcolor COMIC BOOK CREATOR!

80 pages • $8.95 All-color • Quarterly Digital Edition: $3.95 COMING THIS JULY: COMIC BOOK CREATOR #2 (double-size Summer Special) Former COMIC BOOK ARTIST editor JON B. COOKE returns to TwoMorrows with his new magazine! #1 features: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY endured through FRANK ROBBINS spotlight, rememberreturns to TwoMorrows with his new magazine! #1 features: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY endured through FRANK ROBBINS spotlight, remembertures: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY ing LES DANIELS, WILL EISNER’s Valentines to his beloved, a talk between NEAL ADAMS and DENNIS O’NEIL, new ALEX ROSS cover, and more! (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $17.95 (Digital Edition) $6.95 • Ships July 2013

4-issue Subscriptions • PRINT: $36 US with FREE Digital Editions • DIGITAL: $15.80 ($45 First Class US • $50 Canada • $65 First Class International • $95 Priority International) Subscriptions include the double-size Summer Special

TwoMorrows. A New Day For Comics Fans! TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: store@twomorrowspubs.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com

NUMBER 20

A T

CELEBRATING THE LIVES & WORK OF THE GREAT CARTOONISTS, WRITERS & EDITORS

JULY 2002

EDITOR’S RANT: HIGHFATHER’S DAY Ye Ed talks about Will Eisner’s charity, living by example and the lessons of Jack Kirby’s life and work..............4 MICHELLE’S MEANDERINGS: CORSAIRS OF THE COMICS Comicdom’s favorite columnist looks at the pirate comics of Quality..................................................................6 CBA COMMUNIQUES: LETTERS, LETTERS, AND MORE LETTERS Where CBA does some Spring cleaning, and we print a boatload of missives on numerous different issues........8 FATHER & SONS: THE KUBERT LEGACY FRED HEMBECK’S DATELINE: @!!?* It’s a family affair as Herr Hembeck chats about nepotism in comics with Hawkman and Spidey ......................15 IN THE EASY COMPANY OF THE KUBERTS A roundtable conversation with Joe, Adam and Andy Kubert on their lives together and careers in comics ......16 A FEMININE PERSPECTIVE: MURIEL KUBERT ON LIFE WITH THE GUYS Courtesy of the forthcoming book, I Gotta Live With This Guy!, Joe’s wife and Adam & Andy’s Mom talks! ....40 ADAM KUBERT INTERVIEW: ADAM’S AMAZING ADVENTURES From his start lettering for his dad to current work on Ultimate X-Men, Adam gives us the lowdown................42

Editor/Designer JON B. COOKE Publisher

TWOMORROWS JOHN & PAM MORROW Associate Editors CHRIS KNOWLES DAVID A. ROACH CHRISTOPHER IRVING GEORGE KHOURY Contributing Editors ROY THOMAS JOHN MORROW Proofreader ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON

ANDY KUBERT INTERVIEW: THE ORIGIN OF ANDY The superstar artist recounts his upbringing, development as an artist and new career as a teacher ..................50 FATHER & SON: THOSE RAMBUNCTIOUS ROMITA MEN An exhaustive interview with both John Senior and John Junior with tons of rare art ..............................FLIP US!

Cover Art JOE, ADAM & ANDY KUBERT

Cover: As a lark, Joe and his boys jam on a cover depicting perhaps the crew Dad is most renowned for, Sgt. Rock and Easy Company! Only difference here is the Kuberts stand in for some of Rock’s men! Art ©2002 Joe, Adam & Andy Kubert. Characters ©2002 DC Comics. Above: From left to right, Andy, Joe and Adam Kubert in Joe’s office. Photo by Chris Knowles.

Transcribers JON B. KNUTSON BRIAN K. MORRIS SAM GAFFORD LONGBOX.COM STEVEN TICE (cont. next page)

Cover Color PETER CARLSSON

COMIC BOOK ARTIST™ is published 10 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. Jon B. Cooke, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892-0204 USA • 401-783-1669 • Fax: 401-783-1287. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT the editorial office. Single issues: $9 postpaid ($11 Canada, $12 elsewhere). Six-issue subscriptions: $36 US, $66 Canada, $72 elsewhere. All characters © their respective owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © their respective authors. ©2002 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Cover acknowledgements: Art ©2002 Joe, Adam & Andy Kubert. Sgt, Rock & Easy Company ©2002 DC Comics. First Printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

Editor’s Rant

Highfather’s Day Ye Ed pontificates on the charity of art and living by example Logo Designer/Title Originator ARLEN SCHUMER Mascot WOODY by J.D. King Issue Theme Song SUMMER WIND Frank Sinatra Visit CBA on our Website at:

www.twomorrows.com Issue dedicated to

Peter Carlsson Kubert archivist

Contributors Joe Kubert • John Romita, Sr. Muriel, Adam & Andy Kubert Virginia & John Romita, Jr. Blake Bell • Nick Dragotta Pete Carlsson• Mike Burkey Andrew Farago• Andrew Steven Roy Thomas • Bill Alger Allan Kupperberg Michelle Nolan Fred Hembeck Tom Horvitz Chris Knowles Arlen Schumer John Miesegaes Anthony Snyder Steve Sherman Axel Alonso Marvel Comics Cyrus Voris

Part of the reason of why there’s been a lull between issues of Comic Book Artist is my brother Andrew and I are producing a film documentary on the life and art of Will Eisner. Andy’s the filmmaker of the family, having actively worked in the New York City movie industry for umpteen years, and we recently hit upon the idea to get Will as much national attention as possible in recognition of his achievements in this medium we call sequential art (that’s comic books to you Philistines). So we’ve been actively interviewing folks for the flick (including Michael Chabon, Denis Kitchen, and, of course, Mr. Eisner himself) and had the recent opportunity to cover the National Federation of Jewish Culture’s presentation of their Lifetime Achievement Award to Will (see page 1). We took advantage of the event to get sound bites from Will’s acquaintances and had the distinct pleasure of meeting Archie Rand, a professor at Columbia University School of the Arts. The prof, a friend of award presenter art spiegelman, was actually the NFJC member who first suggested that Will should be recognized by the organization, so we thought it’d be a good idea to get an on-camera chat with the guy. Expecting a few appropriate words, we were awed by Archie’s articulate, smart commentary, and startled to hear such insightful words in support of our maligned art form—from a bona fide academic, no less! Anyway, Archie went on to discuss the charity of Will Eisner’s work, how technique was always in service to the only thing that mattered: the story. He spoke of how Eisner would be sharing the revelations the creator uncovered about the human condition with the reader, and how, at the heart, the core of everything, was this generosity of spirit. As I stood there, off-camera and slack-jawed in amazement at Archie’s comments, I thought of why I was there in the first place and what Will meant to me. It got me to think, too, of Jack Kirby—an equally generous heart—and the meaning of fatherhood. So, since this Father & Son’s issue shouldn’t appear too long after Father’s Day, I thought I’d share with you my feelings. My father, Herbert James Cooke, was almost a stereotypical business executive, one who commuted daily in the ’60s between the suburban environs of Westchester County to the skyscrapers of Manhattan. As the fifth of six children, I can’t recall seeing Dad very much. He was an Organization Man who left home early and came back late, and when he was around, Jimmy’s disciplinarian nature came on pretty strongly. Anyway, as my parents divorced in the late ’60s, I didn’t spend very much time with him and he passed away in the early ’90s. All in all, my dad didn’t teach me much; if anything, he taught me how not to be a father (i.e., don’t share your life and dreams with your children, never tell them always that they are loved no matter what, and—most importantly—don’t be there while they grow).

When my last child was about to be born, the first one after the death of my father, I had to make the decision of what to name the boy. We agreed on Daniel as his first name—a good Hebrew name to match older brother Benjamin and Joshua—but I pondered long and hard about the middle name, whether James or… Jacob? Y’see, in the intervening years between the births of my second and third, Jack Kirby had also died and you must understand how much that comics legend meant to me. When I was a kid, before picking up Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #133—the King’s first Fourth World book—I was merely a comics reader; thereafter I was a fan of the art form for life. I became as rabid a Kirby fan as you could get, devouring his Marvel and Timely masterpieces, absorbing his Fighting American and DC work, and even going giddy over the first direct sales comic book I ever bought, Captain Victory. Jack gave me so much through his storytelling and the example of his life—to strive for an ideal, persevere through adversity, and the realization that any job worth doing is worth doing well—that I felt he was a father to me, of sorts. A highfather, if you will, to borrow from his comics. I only met Jack Kirby twice in my life, both at Phil Seuling New York Comic Art Conventions, but each meeting is indelibly etched in memory, the most important one being the time I encountered the master late in the evening as Jack stood waiting for an elevator to doubtless go upstairs and crash. As I remember it, there was a large, smelly fanboy hogging Jack’s attention, demanding the artist to give him a free sketch, and pontificating on how he liked the King’s earlier work at Marvel. Jack kindly obliged—Mr. Kirby’s ability to suffer jerks is legendary—and the guy eventually went away as I was nervously awaiting an audience with this comic book genius. I approached Jack, as he looked at his watch and puffed a pipe, and sheepishly introduced myself, telling my favorite artist what he meant to me and how much I appreciated his work. Jack smiled kindly and thanked me, saw a sketchbook in my hand, and asked, “Would you like a drawing?” Now, at weaker moments I kick myself in the butt for saying it, but I replied, “No, please, just your autograph.” I just didn’t want to take anything more from him; he had given me enough already, not only by granting me consideration at that moment but through his work over the years gone by and the ones to come. Really, it was enough just to be able to tell him how much I loved his work. And Jack, a modest and very well-mannered gentleman, whose kindness, warmth and generosity of spirit continues to inspire me, instructing me on how to treat others and guiding me to pursue excellence. (Whether I live up to his example is doubtful, but I do try!) Needless to say, I love Jack Kirby and will always think of the man and his work (and I feel the same about Will Eisner). Whether intentional or not, Jack has always been there for me, teaching me honor, ethics and respect, all the while giving me the most entertaining stories imaginable. The more I learn about him, the more awed I become at his rising from the very ghettoes of Depression-era New York City to becoming the most prolific and important comic book artist of our time. Wherever you are, Mr. K., God bless and a belated Happy Father’s Day to you—and you, too, Will! Well, kind reader, you must know the ending of the story. I named my third son Daniel Jacob Cooke—Jacob for Jacob Kurtzberg, Jack’s birth name—and it’s nice to have Kirby’s presence continue on in my own family, both as a father figure and a friend. —Jon B. Cooke, Editorman

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COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

July 2002

A COMICS HISTORY GAME-CHANGER!

AMERICAN COMIC BOOK CHRONICLES

THE

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This ambitious new series of FULLCOLOR HARDCOVERS documents every decade of comic books from the 1940s to today! Each colossal volume presents a year-by-year account of the comic book industry’s most significant publications, most notable creators, and most impactful trends.

This ongoing project enlists TwoMorrows’ top authors, as they provide exhaustively researched details on all the major events along the comics history timeline! Editor KEITH DALLAS (The Flash Companion) spearheads the series and writes his own volume on the 1980s. Also in the works are two volumes on the 1940s by ROY THOMAS, the 1950s by BILL SCHELLY, two volumes on the 1960s by JOHN WELLS, a 1970s volume by JIM BEARD, and more volumes documenting the 1990s and 2000s. Taken together, the series forms the first cohesive, linear overview of the entire landscape of comics history, sure to be an invaluable resource for ANY comic book enthusiast! JOHN WELLS leads off with the first of two volumes on the 1960s, covering all the pivotal moments and behind-the-scenes details of comics in the JFK and Beatles era! You’ll get a year-by-year account of the most significant publications, notable creators, and impactful trends, including: DC Comics’ rebirth of GREEN LANTERN, HAWKMAN, and others, and the launch of JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA and multiple earths! STAN LEE and JACK KIRBY’s transformation of superhero comics with the debut of FANTASTIC FOUR, SPIDER-MAN, HULK, X-MEN, AVENGERS, and other iconic characters! Plus BATMAN gets a “new look”, the BLUE BEETLE is revamped at Charlton Comics, and CREEPY #1 brings horror back to comics, just as Harvey’s “kid” comics are booming!

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The co-founder of Filmation Studios tells all about leading the last American animation company through thirty years of innovation and fun! (288-page trade paperback with COLOR) $29.95 • (Digital Edition) $9.95 ISBN: 9781605490441 • Diamond Order Code: JUL121245

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Michelle’s Meanderings

Corsairs in the Comics Quality Comics’ Buccaneers was an unusual experiment by Michelle Nolan

When super-heroes became super-money losers in the late 1940s, one of the best comic book publishers of the period turned to pirates to produce an enduring treasure. In a sense, the nine-issue run of Buccaneers from Quality Comics has become 50-year-old buried treasure, to boot. It’s one of the most underrated of all comic book experiments in the early 1950s, and it seems as though only Reed Crandall fans and those who appreciate the, well, quality of Quality have taken a good look at Buccaneers. Many of the leading comic book publishers at the end of the Golden Age converted their costume/super-hero titles to crime, western or war themes. Quality, for example, turned Police into a terrific hard-boiled crime title (confining Plastic Man to his own comic) and ended the run of “Captain Triumph” in Crack Comics while converted it into Crack Western, which actually improved the look of the comic immensely. Quality’s big gamble, though, was switching a fantasy hero title, Kid Eternity, to Buccaneers, an exotic comic book entirely devoted to pirates, both male and female. Interestingly, the switch was made with Buccaneers #19 (January 1950), which lists the postage permit as being taken out January 25, 1946, for the beginning of Kid Eternity. But either the post office caught up with the genre change (and thus the production of what amounted to an entirely new publication), or Quality applied of its own volition for a new second-class mailing permit, as indicated by the indicia of #20. Unlike many other titles that were forced to apply for a new postal permit, Buccaneers was not forced to change its numbering system. In those days, it was considered a major advantage on the always crowded newsstands to avoid low-numbered titles, giving readers the impression of popularity and stability. Collectors were not given a second thought; comics were generally considered for kids! The psychology was that retailers might not display new titles as prominently as established comics. The ploy did not really work for Buccaneers, which ended with #27 (May 1951). It is intriguing to note, though, that Buccaneers was among the few titles that survived a Quality purge during the summer of 1950, so perhaps early sales reports were encouraging. Quality started 14 romance titles dated between August ’49 and March ’50, yet soon cancelled all 14, with the final romance issues dated October

1950. Quality brought back three of the romance titles in ’51 after a sixth-month hiatus and eventually expanded its romance line to eight titles throughout ’54-56, during the last three years of the company’s existence. So Buccaneers, which was added along with those 14 romance titles, apparently was considered a strong title throughout 1950, leaving a bit of bafflement as to why such a colorful comic was cut short in 1951. It was subtitled “Swashbuckling Pirate Yarns of Adventure on the Bounding Main!” on the cover of every issue. Buccaneers #24-27 were 52-page issues, leading to another Quality puzzle. Why, after reducing page counts to 36 pages on all of its titles for nearly two years beginning in 1949, did Quality go back to 52 pages with most of its titles for one year, from late 1950 to late 1951? Fawcett did the same inconsistent thing about the same time, especially with titles involving the Marvel Family. Pirate themes were not uncommon in anthology titles during the Golden Age. DC’s “Black Pirate” and Fiction House’s “Hawks of the Seas” spring to mind. But all the comics totally devoted to pirates could fit into a short box with plenty of room to spare, which is why Buccaneers was such as intriguing experiment. The best of the pirates comics, of course, was EC’s Piracy #1-7, a 1954-55 “New Trend” title that featured the return of the redoubtable Reed Crandall to one of his most effective genres. Some of Crandall’s finest early work was published in Buccaneers. Second-tier publisher Hillman put out Pirates #1-4 in 1950 and minor-leaguer Aragon contributed Mutiny #1-3 in 1954-55. Charlton slashed its way into the uncrowded field with Long John Silver #3032 in in 1956-57, one of that second-rate but versatile company’s multitude of short-lived television adaptations. And, of course, there were a handful of piratical movie adaptations from the likes of Fawcett and Dell, along with a few pirate-themed issues of Classics Illustrated and its imitators. In general, though, comics didn’t make much booty off pirate themes. That’s why Buccaneers qualifies as one of those odd comics—but one that is odd only in an economic sense. However, during the first two decades of newsstand comic publishing—until the Comics Code came along with 1955—pirates were gold at the theater box offices. Swashbucklers abounded starring the likes of Errol Flynn, Douglas Fairbanks Junior and Senior, and Burt Lancaster, among many, many others. Several of these pirate epics, such as Captain Blood and The Sea Hawk, represent the finest highadventure films ever made. These films are so good that they hold up well today—much better than many others of the period—possibly because of their historic setting and rousing stunt work. That may be why Quality was willing to gamble on such an exotic genre as pirates, even though Buccaneers walked the economic plank after only nine issues. My guess is that the number of pirate movies far outnumbered the number of pirate comics. And, of course, pirates were big in the anthology pulps, such as Adventure, although there was only one direct pirate pulp—the six-issue run of Pirate Stories in 1934-35 from Gemsback Publishing and worth a fortune today for their rarity, obscurity and oddity. Children’s fiction, especially books illustrated by pirate masters Howard Pyle and Frank Schoonover, took advantage of classic pirate fiction in some of the best of the illustrated books of the first half of the 20th century. At any rate, Buccaneers is an absolutely wonderful title, bursting with a caliber of exotic adventure that made comic books seem so COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

July 2002

downright energetic and frenetic in those pre-Comics Code days. Three strips appeared in all nine issues—“Captain Daring” (a definite Captain Blood knockoff), “Black Roger” (a “Black Pirate” knockoff) and “Eric Falcon, Soldier of Fortune” (a knockoff of Rafael Sabatini’s Sea Hawk and everything else the king of the swashbuckling novelists ever wrote). “Captain Daring” was the cover feature in every issue, although only #20 did not also include the sort of female addition that made Fiction House such a big seller. “The Spanish Main” ran in #19-24 and was replaced by a reasonably original concept, “The Corsair Queen,” in #25-27. The female pirate genre is not too crowded in any form of popular culture, after all. When Buccaneers went to 52 pages, a fifth strip— “Adam Peril, U.S.N.”—was added in #24-27. “Adam Peril” was another attempt at being original, but whoever wrote the blurb for the first adventure certainly had a distorted take on history. “Ours was a troubled nation in 1801—crushed between the jealous might of British America to the north and Spanish territory South and West! Bloody pirates ranged the Gulf of Mexico and strutted boldly through the streets of Spanish New Orleans! River pirates plundered on the Mississippi! Into that seething cauldron of intrigue and violence went daring lieutenant Adam Peril of the U.S. Navy… on a strange a perilous mission! For the deadly lightning of his sword could change the fate of a nation!” All this with a map on which Louisiana was marked “Spanish Territory.” Well… sort of. One of the motivations for the wise decision of Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, to make the historic Louisiana Purchase in 1803 was that French dictator Napoleon had convinced the Spanish to leave Louisiana in 1800, setting up the French tyrant’s offer to Jefferson. The President paid the French, not the Spanish, for that incredible $15 million bargain—a monumental purchase that doubled our nation’s territory and eased fears that Napoleon wanted to establish an empire in North America. In addition, “the jealous might of British America to the north,” grossly overstates the influence of the Canadian settlements as the 19th century dawned—and ignores the fact that, after the Revolutionary War, the British did not retain much territory in what is now the continental United States. Spain had long since taken a back seat to Britain and France as a world power by 1801, but the Spanish pirates made better villains for Adam Peril than the French, I guess. French villains just don’t cut it. I suppose the writer took the expression “Spanish Main” quite literally. In his first adventure, the Naval hero met Jefferson “on a Spring evening in 1801,” but that’s a pretty outrageous story plot, taking Jefferson far from the nation’s capitol in Washington only a few weeks after his first inauguration! Adam Peril fought pirates called The Phantom, King Cobra (in a horrific story in which cobras are used instead of swords) and a dandy named Monsieur Chavoi in his remaining three adventures, sans the physical presence of Jefferson but still on missions for the President. Adam Peril was aided by converted pirate Tiny (a giant, of course) and Anita Galvez, his “second agent” and not-so-secret lover in some pretty suggestive scenes. All in all, a fun series if a bit historically flawed. The folks who penned these epics pulled out all the swashbuckling themes and then some. In Buccaneers #27, for example, Black Roger saves “The Lady in the Iron Mask” from the villainy of Barbary Coast Moslems and, of course, falls in love with her beauty once he gets the mask off with a gunpowder trick (technology trumped fanatical Muslims in those days, too). The lingo in these tales is nothing short of wonderfully evocative of the best in purple prose. For example, Black Roger, in disguise in a Moslem marketplace but still wearing his mask (!), says, “We’re surrounded by enemies who would cheerfully tear us limb from limb if they discovered our true identities!” To which his young sidekick, Bart, responds, “Every time one of those Moslems looks in my direction, I can feel his eyes burning holes through this burnoose!” Hmmmm... wonder if Osama bin Laden’s gimlet eye can burn holes through a burnoose? “The Corsair Queen” was a nifty feature even though it appeared only in the final three issues of Buccaneers. The first story’s July 2002

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

introduction has a plot and dialogue that would thrill any Xena fan. As Sir Cedric Evans, governor of Cartago, is returning home, a red-clad female swings onto his boat from a pursuing vessel, looking for all the world ready for action. “Hello, Dad! Welcome back to Cartago!” To which her father replies, “You! Lila Evans, if you were younger, I… I’d spank you! What kind of goings on are these? Look at you! A governor’s daughter, and a gentlewoman, dressed like a… a hoyden! And sailing a boat instead of doing needlework!” To which she erupts, “Fie on needlework! I’d rather ride and sail and fence! I never wanted to be a lady, anyhow!” Well said! And when was the last time you saw the word “hoyden” in a comic book? In a takeoff from Batman, the Corsair Queen is born when her father is murdered by pirates, against whom she swears vengeance before killing her first few bad guys, then going off to bound on the main, or something like that, through two more adventures as a real man-killer. In her last adventure, she disguises herself as a lady once again and winds up victorious in furious sword-fighting action while wearing a long gown. Well, if Wonder Woman and Black Cat could fight in high heels, anything’s possible for a pirate queen!

CBA Communiques

Letters Old, Letters New Where we do a Spring cleaning of our missive overflow Scott Saavedra via the Internet I could tell that Dave Stevens had no idea what you were talking about when, in your interview a couple of issues back [CBA #15], you mentioned that he used my left arm as a model one night while drawing The Rocketeer. Of course, he wouldn’t remember that, I was just some doofus friend of his then current housemate, Joe Chiodo, helping out in a very minor way. But I've got to admit it was a real treat to watch Dave work (oh, man! I was such a drooling fanboy). The Rocketeer, Love and Rockets, Mister X… it was a fine, fine time to be a comic book fan. And I enjoyed sort of flitting about the outer circles of the creative community back then, just waiting for my chance to be the next hot Batman or Swamp Thing artist (didn’t happen). Thanks for devoting your energies to that period. I hope to see more in the future. How about interviews with Pacific Comics’ principles or a detailed look at Kitchen Sink?

Above: Daniel Tesmoingt, our frequent Belgian contributor, generously sent us this French edition of Atlas/Seaboard reprints, featuring John Targitt, Manhunter, and not featured headliner The Scorpion. Thanks, Daniel! ©1975 Seaboard Periodicals, Inc. Inset right: Ye Ed loves to swap complimentary copies of our respective magazines with other editors. It’s especially gratifying not only to get TwoMorrows’ mags gratis, but among those anticipated ’zines are The Comics Journal, Illustration, Hogan’s Alley, Charlton Spotlight, and Jim V.’s ImageS. But no other periodical evokes a chuckle at Casa CBA like Scott Saavedra’s hilarious Comic Book Heaven (published by Slave Labor). Scott’s also a keen cartoonist, as evidenced by this caricature the CBH editor drew of himself for the latest. ©2002 Scott Saavedra. 8

Steve Smith Tacoma, Washington I am writing to vent my anger and sadness at just recently learning of John Buscema’s passing. Before learning of his death my intention was to beg you to cover John’s career, as he must stand up there with Kirby and Adams in his own right. My intention was to press you for some urgency while the legends are alive you should be pursuing them. Now I am venting, with all due respect to talented Dave Stevens, Art Adams, and the like, why have you largely ignored John Buscema? I would have thought your mag would have followed issue #1 of Adams, with say, Kirby, and then John Buscema, John Romita, Gene Colan, George Tuska, Jim Aparo, Gil Kane, Dick Giordano, Tom Palmer, Barry Smith, Herb Trimpe, etc. I must say I am perplexed by the feature choices that have been made, please, please, get to Gene Colan now and cover his DD, Captain Marvel, Iron Man work. I know you recently featured his horror stuff, but please before another legend passes get back on track. I should have thought that the artist’s I've mentioned here would have been obvious choices for comprehensive featuring in Comic Book Artist but somehow it has gone by the wayside. Perhaps I am in the minority, as I am primarily interested in the most notable artists and writers of the ’60s and ’70s. Don’t get me wrong I would love to see issues covering the more modern Jim Lee, Marc Silvestri, Andy Kubert, Mike Deodato, John Byrne and Steve Epting, but as I have stated above there should be more of a sense of

urgency in getting interviews with the older “legends” while we are privileged to have them. [I don’t think I’ve received as much criticism for anything else as I have on the lack of Buscema coverage in CBA. I have long admired the late artist’s achievements in comics and had initially planned a “Heavy Hitters” issue in which John agreed to participate a few years back. John’s illness initially put off that tribute and then I decided to singularly focus on the artist with a “Buscema and the Barbarians” issue, which he again agreed to be a part of. Sadly, his recent death made us change plans yet again to the present all-out celebration of Big John coming in our next issue, #21, due in August (featuring a cover portrait painting by Tom Palmer). Honestly, our intent was always to give John the proper recognition in his lifetime.—Y.E.] Jason Strangis Prescott, Wisconsin I just picked up some issues of CBA and Alter Ego at my local comic book store and had a great time reading the interviews, and am finishing up the Tower issue [#14]. Wally Wood is a fascinating figure in the world of comics. He certainly was one of the most talented artists and he really had a knack for drawing gorgeous women. It’s sad the way Woody’s life ended. It seems like the creative types always struggle with their inner demons, and Woody was no exception. I’d love to see more features on Jack Cole, another creative genius who met with a tragic end. And how about an issue devoted to the mysterious Steve Ditko. I know it would be nearly impossible to get Ditko to talk, but you could interview the artists and writers who worked with him to get their perspective on the reclusive artist. With all the buzz about the new Spider-Man movie, I think it would be a great idea to feature Spidey’s creators. You could also talk to Stan Lee about Spidey’s origins. Of course, you could also interview the large crop of artists and writers who have worked on the web-slinger throughout the years. Keep the great stuff coming! This fanboy really appreciates your love and dedication to the world of comics. Hope to see you in Chicago for Wizard World (hey, it’s not too late to change your mind, Jon, and come to the Windy City. It’s my favorite Con of the year). [Thank you for your kind words, Jason. Regarding Steve Ditko, I confess that CBA only features retrospectives on those living artists who agree to participate in the mag. I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Ditko, one of the most important and talented comic artists ever, but because he has repeatedly declined to be interviewed, I will continue to respect his request. I sincerely hope Marvel and/or Sony Pictures gave Ditko a proper gratuity as Spider-Man’s co-creator for the mega-blockbuster film, but the truth of the matter would be between the artist and the company. Do note that Ditko is continuing his series of essays detailing his contributions to Amazing Spider-Man in the pages of Robin Snyder’s extraordinary newsletter, The Comics.—Y.E.] David Allen Claremont, California Nice job on CBA #13. Like you, I’m obsessed with those late ’60searly ’70s Marvels, so I’ll buy anything you publish on that era! (By the way, you published a letter of mine back in CBA #4 saying I liked your approach but that I wished you had more explanatory material. You seem to be doing more in this regard, with your editorial and COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

July 2002

David Roach’s essay in this issue, and I think it helps— although I suspect it’s natural evolution rather than anything I said.) Anyway, in this ish you posited two mysteries regarding Tomb of Dracula: What issue did Tom Palmer have to ink over thermal photocopies and was TOD originally planned as a black-&-white magazine. And I can answer both—based on evidence in the comics themselves! First, the Palmer rescue job was in TOD #24 (my fourthever Marvel purchase, so it’s vivid in my mind). A yellow box on the letters page explained that if the art seemed a little off, that’s because the first 11 pages were inked from “halffaded” Xerox copies when the original art went missing from Marv Wolfman’s desk. Second, TOD was indeed first planned as a b-&-w. Allow me to quote from the July 1971 Bullpen Bulletins page (see Fantastic Four #112, among others, for the actual page): “Savage Tales (our M-rated mag—for the mature reader) looks like such a howlin’ hit that we’re following it up with a ghoulish 50¢ goodie called The Tomb of Dracula. (Or The House of Dracula. We haven’t decided yet.) It’s a wholly new concept, starring Dracula himself, as he is—was—and perhaps will be. With art by Gene Colan, Berni Wrightson, and Gray Morrow among others, and a team of the world’s most titanic scripters, headed by Marvel’s merry masters, Smilin’ Stan and Rascally Roy themselves! May we modestly say—it ain’t to be missed!” For TOD/HOD to be missed, of course, it first had to be published. That same Bullpen page item also plugged the upcoming Savage Tales #2—which sat unpublished for two years (Oct. 1973)! One could assume that a Dracula b-&-w magazine was planned in the first flush of excitement for Savage Tales and then retooled once the “M-rated mag” (released in May 1971) flopped commercially. An update on TOD appeared on the Oct. 1971 Bullpen page (FF #115, etc.). It was announced that Stan was taking a vacation from comics to write Alain Resnais’ first Englishlanguage film, leaving other writers to pinch-hit for him. Among the fill-ins was Gerry Conway on Tomb of Dracula #1, “which Smiley had plotted and planned to script himself.” There’s no mention of whether TOD is a b-&-w magazine or a comic. The actual TOD #1 didn’t debut until April 1972 and numbered 25 pages of story and art, compared to the usual 21 pages in Marvels of the time—another clue, besides the art proportions, that the comic was prepared for a different format than a standard color comic. I think that answers your questions, Jon! Do I get a NoPrize? Jerry K. Boyd Palo Alto, Ca. You people did a beautiful job bringing Marvel’s old horrors back to life. As always in CBA, there are at least a couple of interviews involving creators who deserved more press in their heyday and I’m glad you’re bringing their lives and efforts to center stage. #13’s pleasant surprises, for me, were Gary Friedrich and Pablo Marcos. I loved those monster makers then and I swear by their books now! As good as the Horrorshow ish was, your next issue was even better due in large part to the contextual contributions by Irving, Mougin, and Ivie. When you serve up a few articles with reflections on the times, company histories, major/minor character analyses, along with your always well done interviews, to me you’ve got the same winning recipe that earned CBA #4 your well-deserved Eisner. Everything was there in your Tower coverage and I’m glad you made room for Tippy Teen, also. Samm Schwartz was another underrated great and though I was saddened to hear about his last years, it’s good that his collaborators could speak so well about the great Jughead writer/artist. The Comics Journal’s put-down about your seeming preoccupation with Inset right: We’re going to press with this issue far to early to have received any letters on our Harvey issue (hell, it’s not even back from the printers as I write these words!), but we couldn’t resist using this Warren Kremer calendar art. Sad Sack ©2002 Lorne-Harvey Productions, Inc. All others ©2002 Harvey Ent., Inc. July 2002

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

“Ike-era comics” is absurd. If you choose to focus on creators/companies from (by all accounts) a better time in sequential art production, that’s no more worthy of denouncement that one historian’s rebuffing of another for concentrating on Egyptian history instead of the Roman Empire. I gave up The Journal years ago for its pessimistic, cynical, and overall snobbish attitude and I don’t feel I’ve missed a thing! Comics are entertainment and I read and support the TwoMorrows’ products because they bring back the great moments of the medium with coverage that’s equally entertaining. The Journal had (wisely) used Tomb of Dracula as a barometer of excellence for their reviewing purposes for years. Why didn’t they do a special section on Colan, Wolfman, Palmer, and the other excellent Marvel horrors? (At the top of anyone’s list has to be the Roy Thomas/Alan Weiss Solomon Kane vs. Dracula. Incredible stuff!) Looking forward to the Gold Key/Dell coverage and, hey, don’t get too far away from another “Daring and Different” DC issue! There are still the Secret Six, Nightmaster, Jonah Hex, Inferior Five, Dial H for Hero, the ERB material, the Neal Adams’ Spectre, Firehair, Angel and the Ape, and creators Jack Sparling, Irv Novick, Tony DeZuniga, Elliot S. Maggin, Bob Oksner, Murphy Anderson, Jim Mooney, Berni Wrightson… [A couple of months later, Jerry writes:] Nice work on #15. I’ve got to admit, I wasn’t excited about the section on Mister X’s creators but the interviews turned out to be very interesting. Canada’s got a vibe all its own when it comes to comics. I ignored Mister X in the ’80s but after what I read I’ll go out and give them a try. Also, Sandy Plunkett is an exceptional talent and it’s to your credit that you included him. Only let yourselves go more! A gallery of Plunkett’s art, and Stevens’ also, would’ve made beautiful compliments to their sections. As much as I enjoy CBA, especially your historical perspective issues, I’m not in favor of your increasing circulation. Just my opinion, but CBA’s at its best when its contributors take their time and put out a product that goes beyond superlatives. Your fourth issue was four months late but the results were staggering (and award-winning)! This is no putdown but I sincerely doubt you’ll be able to match that kind of quality on a more frequent schedule. The thing I applaud most about your ’zine is your attention to the under-reported/under-appreciated companies such as Warren, Tower, and Charlton and eras (’70s Marvel and late ‘60s DC). While your interviews are always well done, Q&A sessions have been done before, are being done right now by your competitors, and will continue to be done in the future. Keep your uniqueness, please. I’d hate for people to say that CBA’s just a glossier version of the old Comics Interview or something. Looking forward to your Dell/Gold Key issue, Atlas/Seaboard, Harvey Comics coverage, etc. Finally, I’d love to see you guys dive into the ’80s Pacific Comics of Bruce Jones, Rand Holmes, Bill Wray, John Bolton, Art Suydam… you get the picture. Mike Chomko Allentown, Pennsylvania I very much enjoyed your tribute to EC legend, George Evans, in CBA #17. There is one thing I would like to note, however. George grew up in the town of Kulpmont, Pennsylvania. In his interview, the town is mistakenly called Coldmont. I met George back in the ’70s, when I was in my late teens. He was a guest of honor at a comic convention in central Pennsylvania. I was a guest too, but as an amateur filmmaker. During the daytime hours, George and the other professional guests were the centers of attention. However, come Saturday night, after the dealers’ room had closed, it was my turn. For a couple of hours, I entertained a mediumsized crowd with a series of amateur films I had produced with the help of my friends. Among the audience was George Evans. Following my show, I took questions from the crowd and among the enthusiastic interrogators was George Evans. 9

Above: CBA pal Dan Reed—who sports the same name as The Lone Ranger’s nephew—sent in the above illo with the intention of it seeing print in our Gray Morrow tribute but alas… Dan and the master both shared an artist’s alley table at a con some time back. Lone Ranger ©2002 the respective copyright holder.

That’s what I remember best about George— he treated everyone with respect. Years later, I met George again, but this time it was as a member of the Pulp Era Amateur Press Society. George had signed up immediately when the group was created in the late ’80s. I joined in 1995 and it was there that my pulphistory magazine, Purple Prose, first took shape. In some of the early issues of Purple Prose, I worked with long-time pulp fans to recreate their childhoods when pulps could be purchased fresh off America’s newsstands. I had wanted to do the same with George one day, but unfortunately, I waited too long. George however, had occasionally written about his early years in the pages of the amateur press society’s quarterly mailings. In the months following his death, I looked back over his writings and realized a pretty interesting story was contained therein. I contacted his widow, Evelyn (who passed away this past January), and obtained permission to compile the story of George’s pulp-filled childhood. Excerpting passages from about 14 years of writing, I was able to put together what I consider an entertaining and informative tale. I thought you and the readers of CBA might be interested in this tale of George Evans’ youth, “With Wings I Soared.” The magazine Wings, the predecessor of Wings Comics, was probably Evans’ favorite pulp. If any of your readers would like a copy of Purple Prose

#15, they can send $5.50 to Michael Chomko, 2217 W. Fairview Street, Allentown, PA 18104-6542. Geoffrey Grogan Brooklyn, New York I’ve been a subscriber of CBA for a year now, a faithful reader since its inception—and I want you to know that of the periodicals I read, no other magazine matches CBA for sheer reading pleasure. I devour every issue—well, with the exception of those devoted to Charlton (but I even get through those eventually)—and given a rainy weekend, a new CBA, and a Thermos of hot café latte, well, I’m incommunicado for a good 48 hours. CBA #13 was no exception—and so I was thankful for the rainy weekend. I’m mystified at my fascination with these stories about the making of some pretty mediocre comics (Tomb of Dracula aside), but I couldn’t put it down. The reminiscences of these great pros of my youth—Thomas, Wolfman, Trimpe, Colan, Friedrich, Isabella, et al. (all of whom I idolized)—evoked a real sense of loss, and I finished the issue feeling terribly sad. Their shared memories of Marvel in the early ’70s, confirmed the impressions created in contemporaneous Bullpen Bulletins and letters pages, this was an inspired and creative place to be, populated with wonderful people. It saddens me to know that it did not last, nor was its promise fulfilled—this “inspired place” did not do justice to those who made it what it was. The story of Gary Friedrich was particularly disheartening. So much so that one could almost lose sight of the fact that he has triumphed over his illness. Thanks for seeking “Groovy Gary” out and filling in another missing brick of information. Rick Roe Cranston, Rhode Island ’Tis Saturday afternoon; as usual, I await a visit from Peck. So, in order to use time better than I might often do. I thought I’d comment on the latest CBA [#17], which you so very kindly provide to this impecunious afficionado (for which, huge thanks!). I think you have produced an issue that will be hard to top, from my optic viewpoint. There is much of deep interest to me as a collector, ’cause I’m real ol’ school. You see, there’s a lot of heartfelt sentiment and love in your magazine for the elder creative “gods” of comics and illustration, a far cry from the often cool, calculated air found in Comic Book Marketplace, though they have been wonderful as well. It doesn’t lessen the effort or feel because of the recent passings in the field; other, we are finally getting to the kind of in-depth interviewing and features I (and many others) have hungered to see for so many years in the fan press. I applaud your work in gathering all the talented people you’ve contacted to celebrate the passion comic art engenders in it’s devotees—they convey their joy so brightly! As is everyone who loved (but, frankly, seemed to take for granted most of the time) the work of Gray Morrow, I’m so sad to see him go before really being applauded as he deserved. Gray was from my hometown of Fort Wayne, Indiana. It pains me to think I never tried to connect with him as I would have liked. The old town was an early “hotbed” of activity in comics fandom, as it’s also the home of Grass Green and, temporarily, Ronn Foss. I kick meself a lot for being lazy! Gray will be remembered by me as the most realistic comics artist predominant in the ’60s onward. His work didn’t really belong in comics, but all the other venues for his stylistic manner and subjects of interest were faded or gone. I’m grateful that he did deign comics worthy of attention, for his work made all the other artists work harder and better. He was a successor to Crandall and Evans, Craig and Kinstler—the illustrators. His panels, like Hal Foster’s, were drawings first, even as they told the story. That he was a fun-loving, lively outdoor type is not the least surprising. I feel for all those who knew him well. They have much to miss. Thanks for the great and informative (long overdue) homage. There is so much to be gained from getting to know these people, if even in print. This is the spirit Jerry Bails and the [Don and Maggie] Thompsons and Rascally One [Roy Thomas] meant to convey back in the earliest days of fandom. Bill Schelly’s Sense of Wonder (and mine) is vastly enhanced in your ’zine with each new interview. We can share, with our favorite comics folk, the enthusiasm they felt as they created the stuff of our fantasies, begot by the old serials, radio shows and movies they grew up enjoying. I was amused by the great modesty of George Roussos; and what a workhorse! Interviews like this could only occur because fans are so knowledgeable today. George’s recollections were equal parts modest COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20 July 2002

memories and astonishment at the interest his work had generated. These wonderful folks are just beginning to become aware of our appreciation, even those for whom it was “just a job.” Roussos must have had one of the larger careers (continuously) in comics. I was surprised by his assessment of Jerry Robinson’s work, which most of the fans (and artists) always seem to revere. Personally, I find it fun to “read.” That he had admiration for Mort Meskin reveals his innate good taste. Even Kirby was in awe of Meskin’s underrated skill. I would like to have known more about his Anglophile cultural leanings, as that was slightly out of sync. George Evans was not under-appreciated—not by me, at any rate! His drawing had character integrity and graphic depth not often achieved. That he was a wonderful loving curmudgeon fits perfectly. Observe the tributes—everyone loved this guy. That sets the unselfish and self-effacing apart. Everyone agrees he was the best aviation artist, but I was also fond of his character depictions and beautiful women. As a Fiction House fan, “Tiger Man” was always a real standout. His Fawcett horror comics were among items I avidly pursued in my more rampant collectin’ days. Nothing more to be said about EC—just awesome artistry. As usual, it is our great loss to be without him and he without his loved ones. I was pleasantly surprised to see the Kinstler interview. I’m a booster of all the late ’40s-’50s artists and ERK is never mentioned but in passing. An interview like this is a surprise. He is, I believe, represented in the Museum of American Illustration in Newport, Rhode Island—a place that should be regarded as Mecca to fans of the work. This from personal experience. Kinstler’s regard for comics reflects the fondness expressed by artists in alI fields for what in the last century, was a major influence upon new, emerging art styles and their purveyors. His admiration for the stuff sounded just like Morrow’s expressed views. I would like to have heard more about Avon from him, but these interviews should, I hope, be regarded as steps toward more complete scholarship. If only we could see pieces by/about more of the publishers and business aspects of the comics field. I would be happy. This is the meat of the story, well conveyed recently in The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, Michael Chabon’s novel. An excellent cue!! More could always be said when yer a boring ol’ fart like me (as my grandpa used to say), but my kith ’n’ kin want the computer back. Thanks again. Before I forget, WOW!!! Thanks for Michelle Nolan— what a coup! She’s the best writer, with a style I recognized right away despite not reading the credit. Yeah!! Daniel Tesmoingt Belgique, Belgium The last three issues of CBA were great! I particularly enjoyed the Art Adams and Dave Stevens interviews. And one of the most interesting issues was the one dedicated to Atlas/Seaboard. I really like to know a little more of companies like Atlas, Tower, Charlton, and you give me (and many others readers, I suppose) a lot of information, analyses, interviews. Thanks! By the way, did you know that, in France, books exist about Tower (January 1994) and Atlas (January 1993), by Editions de I’Hydre (last address I know: c/o Francis SAINT MARTIN, Lacabanne, F-64300 Lanneplaa, France). In CBA # 17, you mention Titans, the French magazine published by Editions Lug, reprinting (in French) some Atlas/Seaboard comics. For your information, Lug also did a graphic novel with the first issues of Ironjaw in 1976. Enclosed you also find a (bad, sorry) copy of a magazine published by (French editions) Sagedition: Scorpion! Darrell McNeil California

Congratulations! Usually it’s my first name people screw up. After 26 years doing animation, it takes you to be the first one to get my last name wrong. The “master” [Alex Toth], as you call him (I call ’im “Uncle”) lettered my name as McNeil [on the cover of their book, Alex Toth: By Design], I spell it McNeil, you should, too. Try it… it’s fun. This is re: Yer latest CBA [#17], where the name comes up. And re: Said tough puppy, here’s a head’s up for ya! There are a thousand July 2002

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

copies of the original print run left [of AT:BD]… safely nestled in a friend’s place in Texas. I have plans for ’em… but they’ll have to wait until I finish my pair of animated projects I’m producing (and the “master” is consulting with me on the half-hour Rainbow Girl and the feature Jesse James. Once they’re done, AT:BD may emerge again. (Maybe.) (Hey, if the “master” can zing me about “amalgam,” I can zing you about this…) Tony Kowalik Chicago, Illinois WOW! If Wally Wood had a middle name, it should have been “O” (for “oh!”). CBA #14 caused me to become a permanent subscriber (through my local comics shop, Joe Sarno’s Comic Kingdom). I loved Wally’s work and tried to imitate his poses and shading in some of my sketches. T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #1 just blew me away. How could this no-name, new publisher ever get a talent like Woody to work for them?! (But now I know “the rest of the story.”) Maybe Wally and Dan Adkins and Co. were fast, but it didn’t seem like it to me, as I couldn’t wait for the next issue. I bought them all! Had they produced more, I would have purchased more. I see that the latest Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide is still carrying a “13?” for alleged Ditko work in TA #13. Although the person who advised me of the rumor was expert enough to say it simply wasn’t true, I had to see for myself. Nope, not inside that issue. Yet the poses on the cover didn’t seem quite what Wood would do. The pencil rough on your page 13 put all doubt from my mind. It was Wood all the way. I didn’t realize Larry Ivie was such a creative genius, and had a hand in such behind-the-scenes stuff. I still have copies of his Monsters & Heroes #1, 6 and 7, and saw that his art was so good, I wondered why he didn’t become a bigger name in comic art. While I appreciate the way Larry got the thunder rolling, I’m glad Wood’s artwork won out. Actually the team of Adkins and Wood seemed to have a polished look that neither could achieve on their own. Sorry, Dan. Alone you’re good but I’m glad Wood made the cover of CBA #14. Mike Sekowsky! I realize not everyone liked his art, perhaps being too “stilted” for some readers. And while I’m sure Murphy Anderson’s inking would make anyone’s pencils look good, I feel that Mike was perfect for his time, especially the early Justice League of America. And while others didn’t seem to like it, I admired his work on Wonder Woman, Metal Men, and “Jason’s Quest” [in Showcase #88-90]. His “Manhunter: 2070” [in Showcase #91-93] just hit me between the eyes, like a future Dirty Harry. I remember Mike’s Batman/Wonder Woman “Widow Macher” (maker) story in The Brave and the Bold [#87] and even his Atom/Hawkman cover(s). He’s done so much work, I would like to see a CBA feature on him. [Please see CBA #1 or CBA Collection Vol. 1 for a special section on the artist/writer/editor.] As great as your magazine is, please do not increase frequency of publication (à là eight times a year like Alter Ego). There’s just too much to read in less than two months.

Above: Reader Lee Carlson writes that after he spied the cover of Captain Action #1, Lee contends that this and a few other DC covers of the time (1968) are the work of young writer Jim Shooter, who scripted the above issue, pointing out the above signature-like “bug” which, I guess, could be construed as a signature baring the name “Jim.” Lee asks, “Any ideas on the subject?” Well, while it looks certainly to be the work of Irv Novick to me—with the “signature” being lower case “in” (the artist’s initials), enclosed in a circle— it could be then-DC editorial director—and cover designer—Carmine Infantino’s “Cin,” who may have done the layout. What do you think? ©2002 DC Comics.Captain Action ©the respective copyright holder. Inset left: Another French edition featuring Atlas/Seaboard characters, this one with a cover painting depicting Ironjaw. While nice, it doesn’t hold a candle to Neal Adams’ superb cover for the American edition of Ironjaw #2, from whence this scene was taken. Thanks to Daniel Tesmoingt for the contribution. Ironjaw ©1975 Seaboard Periodicals, Inc. Opposite page, bottom left: Michael Chomko informs us that the February, 2002 issue of his Purple Prose (#15) features a section devoted to legendary EC Comics artist, George Evans. Read Mike’s letter for ordering info. 11

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The forerunner to COMIC BOOK CREATOR, CBA is the 2000-2004 Eisner Award winner for BEST COMICS-RELATED MAG! Edited by CBC’s JON B. COOKE, it features in-depth articles, interviews, and unseen art, celebrating the lives and careers of the great comics artists from the 1970s to today. ALL BACK ISSUES NOW AVAILABLE AS DIGITAL EDITIONS FOR $3.95 FROM www.twomorrows.com!

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More on DC COMICS 1967-74, with art by and interviews with NICK CARDY, JOE SIMON, NEAL ADAMS, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, MIKE KALUTA, SAM GLANZMAN, MARV WOLFMAN, IRWIN DONENFELD, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, GIL KANE, DENNY O’NEIL, HOWARD POST, ALEX TOTH on FRANK ROBBINS, DC Writer’s Purge of 1968 by MIKE BARR, JOHN BROOME’s final interview, and more! CARDY cover!

Unpublished and rarely-seen art by, features on, and interviews with 1970s Bullpenners PAUL GULACY, FRANK BRUNNER, P. CRAIG RUSSELL, MARIE and JOHN SEVERIN, JOHN ROMITA SR., DAVE COCKRUM, DON MCGREGOR, DOUG MOENCH, and others! Plus never-beforeseen pencil pages to an unpublished Master of Kung-Fu graphic novel by PAUL GULACY! Cover by FRANK BRUNNER!

Featuring ’70s Marvel greats PAUL GULACY, JOHN BYRNE, RICH BUCKLER, DOUG MOENCH, DAN ADKINS, JIM MOONEY, STEVE GERBER, FRANK SPRINGER, and DENIS KITCHEN! Plus: a rarely-seen Stan Lee P.R. chat promoting the ’60s Marvel cartoon shows, the real trials and tribulations of Comics Distribution, the true story behind the ’70s Kung Fu Craze, and a new cover by PAUL GULACY!

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#10: WALTER SIMONSON

#11: ALEX TOTH AND SHELLY MAYER

#8: ’80s INDEPENDENTS

#9: CHARLTON PART 1

#12: CHARLTON PART 2

Major independent creators and their fabulous books from the early days of the Direct Sales Market! Featured interviews include STEVE RUDE, HOWARD CHAYKIN, DAVE STEVENS, JAIME HERNANDEZ, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, DON SIMPSON, SCOTT McCLOUD, MIKE BARON, MIKE GRELL, and more! Plus plenty of rare and unpublished art, and a new STEVE RUDE cover!

Interviews with Charlton alumni JOE GILL, DICK GIORDANO, STEVE SKEATES, DENNIS O’NEIL, ROY THOMAS, PETE MORISI, JIM APARO, PAT BOYETTE, FRANK MCLAUGHLIN, SAM GLANZMAN, plus ALAN MOORE on the Charlton/ Watchmen Connection, DC’s planned ALLCHARLTON WEEKLY, and more! DICK GIORDANO cover!

Career-spanning SIMONSON INTERVIEW, covering his work from “Manhunter” to Thor to Orion, JOHN WORKMAN interview, TRINA ROBBINS interview, also Trina, MARIE SEVERIN and RAMONA FRADON talk shop about their days in the comics business, MARIE SEVERIN interview, plus other great women cartoonists. New SIMONSON cover!

Interviews with ALEX TOTH, Toth tributes by KUBERT, SIMONSON, JIM LEE, BOLLAND, GIBBONS and others, TOTH on continuity art, TOTH checklist, plus SHELDON MAYER SECTION with a look at SCRIBBLY, interviews with Mayer’s kids (real-life inspiration for SUGAR & SPIKE), and more! Covers by TOTH and MAYER!

CHARLTON COMICS: 1972-1983! Interviews with Charlton alumni GEORGE WILDMAN, NICOLA CUTI, JOE STATON, JOHN BYRNE, TOM SUTTON, MIKE ZECK, JACK KELLER, PETE MORISI, WARREN SATTLER, BOB LAYTON, ROGER STERN, and others, ALEX TOTH, a NEW E-MAN STRIP by CUTI AND STATON, and the art of DON NEWTON! STATON cover!

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#13: MARVEL HORROR

#14: TOWER COMICS & WALLY WOOD

#15: 1980s VANGUARD & DAVE STEVENS

#16: ATLAS/SEABOARD COMICS

#17: ARTHUR ADAMS

1970s Marvel Horror focus, from Son of Satan to Ghost Rider! Interviews with ROY THOMAS, MARV WOLFMAN, GENE COLAN, TOM PALMER, HERB TRIMPE, GARY FRIEDRICH, DON PERLIN, TONY ISABELLA, and PABLOS MARCOS, plus a Portfolio Section featuring RUSS HEATH, MIKE PLOOG, DON PERLIN, PABLO MARCOS, FRED HEMBECK’S DATELINE, and more! New GENE COLAN cover!

Interviews with Tower and THUNDER AGENTS alumni WALLACE WOOD, LOU MOUGIN, SAMM SCHWARTZ, DAN ADKINS, LEN BROWN, BILL PEARSON, LARRY IVIE, GEORGE TUSKA, STEVE SKEATES, and RUSS JONES, TOWER COMICS CHECKLIST, history of TIPPY TEEN, 1980s THUNDER AGENTS REVIVAL, and more! WOOD cover!

Interviews with ’80s independent creators DAVE STEVENS, JAIME, MARIO, AND GILBERT HERNANDEZ, MATT WAGNER, DEAN MOTTER, PAUL RIVOCHE, and SANDY PLUNKETT, plus lots of rare and unseen art from The Rocketeer, Love & Rockets, Mr. X, Grendel, other ’80s strips, and more! New cover by STEVENS and the HERNANDEZ BROS.!

’70s ATLAS COMICS HISTORY! Interviews with JEFF ROVIN, ROY THOMAS, ERNIE COLÓN, STEVE MITCHELL, LARRY HAMA, HOWARD CHAYKIN, SAL AMENDOLA, JIM CRAIG, RIC MEYERS, and ALAN KUPPERBERG, Atlas Checklist, HEATH, WRIGHTSON, SIMONSON, MILGROM, AUSTIN, WEISS, and STATON discuss their Atlas work, and more! COLÓN cover!

Discussion with ARTHUR ADAMS about his career (with an extensive CHECKLIST, and gobs of rare art), plus GRAY MORROW tributes from friends and acquaintances and a MORROW interview, Red Circle Comics Checklist, interviews with & remembrances of GEORGE ROUSSOS & GEORGE EVANS, Gallery of Morrow, Evans, and Roussos art, EVERETT RAYMOND KINSTLER interview, and more! New ARTHUR ADAMS cover!

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#18: 1970s MARVEL COSMIC COMICS

#19: HARVEY COMICS

#20: ROMITAs & KUBERTs #21: ADAM HUGHES, ALEX #22: GOLD KEY COMICS & examinations: RUSS MANNING ROSS, & JOHN BUSCEMA Interviews & Magnus Robot Fighter, WALLY WOOD &

Roundtable with JIM STARLIN, ALAN WEISS and AL MILGROM, interviews with STEVE ENGLEHART, STEVE LEIALOHA, and FRANK BRUNNER, art from the lost WARLOCK #16, plus a FLO STEINBERG CELEBRATION, with a Flo interview, tributes by HERB TRIMPE, LINDA FITE, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH, and others! STARLIN/ MILGROM/WEISS cover!

History of Harvey Comics, from Hot Stuf’, Casper, and Richie Rich, to Joe Simon’s “Harvey Thriller” line! Interviews with, art by, and tributes to JACK KIRBY, STERANKO, WILL EISNER, AL WILLIAMSON, GIL KANE, WALLY WOOD, REED CRANDALL, JOE SIMON, WARREN KREMER, ERNIE COLÓN, SID JACOBSON, FRED RHOADES, and more! New wraparound MITCH O’CONNELL cover!

Joint interview between Marvel veteran and superb Spider-Man artist JOHN ROMITA, SR. and fan favorite Thor/Hulk renderer JOHN ROMITA, JR.! On the flipside, JOE, ADAM & ANDY KUBERT share their histories and influences in a special roundtable conversation! Plus unpublished and rarely seen artwork, and a visit by the ladies VIRGINIA and MURIEL! Flip-covers by the KUBERTs and the ROMITAs!

ADAM HUGHES ART ISSUE, with a comprehensive interview, unpublished art, & CHECKLIST! Also, a “Day in the Life” of ALEX ROSS (with plenty of Ross art)! Plus a tribute to the life and career of one of Marvel’s greatest artists, JOHN BUSCEMA, with testimonials from his friends and peers, art section, and biographical essay. HUGHES and TOM PALMER flip-covers!

Total War M.A.R.S. Patrol, Tarzan by JESSE MARSH, JESSE SANTOS and DON GLUT’S Dagar and Dr. Spektor, Turok, Son of Stone’s ALBERTO GIOLITTI and PAUL S. NEWMAN, plus Doctor Solar, Boris Karloff, The Twilight Zone, and more, including MARK EVANIER on cartoon comics, and a definitive company history! New BRUCE TIMM cover!

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#23: MIKE MIGNOLA

#24: NATIONAL LAMPOON COMICS

#25: ALAN MOORE AND KEVIN NOWLAN

COMIC BOOK ARTIST: SPECIAL EDITION #1

COMIC BOOK ARTIST: SPECIAL EDITION #2

Exhaustive MIGNOLA interview, huge art gallery (with never-seen art), and comprehensive checklist! On the flip-side, a careerspanning JILL THOMPSON interview, plus tons of art, and studies of Jill by ALEX ROSS, STEVE RUDE, P. CRAIG RUSSELL, and more! Also, interview with JOSÉ DELBO, and a talk with author HARLAN ELLISON on his various forays into comics! New MIGNOLA HELLBOY cover!

GAHAN WILSON and NatLamp art director MICHAEL GROSS speak, interviews with and art by NEAL ADAMS, FRANK SPRINGER, SEAN KELLY, SHARY FLENNEKIN, ED SUBITSKY, M.K. BROWN, B.K. TAYLOR, BOBBY LONDON, MICHEL CHOQUETTE, ALAN KUPPERBERG, and more! Features new covers by GAHAN WILSON and MARK BODÉ!

Focus on AMERICA’S BEST COMICS! ALAN MOORE interview on everything from SWAMP THING to WATCHMEN to ABC and beyond! Interviews with KEVIN O’NEILL, CHRIS SPROUSE, JIM BAIKIE, HILARY BARTA, SCOTT DUNBIER, TODD KLEIN, JOSE VILLARRUBIA, and more! Flip-side spotlight on the amazing KEVIN NOWLAN! Covers by J.H. WILLIAMS III & NOWLAN!

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Previously available only to CBA subscribers! Spotlights great DC Comics of the ’70s: Interviews with MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN on JACK KIRBY’s Fourth World, ALEX TOTH on his mystery work, NEAL ADAMS on Superman vs. Muhammad Ali, RUSS HEATH on Sgt. Rock, BRUCE JONES discussing BERNIE WRIGHTSON (plus a WRIGHTSON portfolio), and a BRUCE TIMM interview, art gallery, and cover!

Compiles the new “extras” from CBA COLLECTION VOL. 1-3: unpublished JACK KIRBY story, unpublished BERNIE WRIGHTSON art, unused JEFF JONES story, ALAN WEISS interview, examination of STEVE ENGLEHART and MARSHALL ROGERS’ 1970s Batman work, a look at DC’s rare Cancelled Comics Cavalcade, PAUL GULACY art gallery, Marvel Value Stamp history, Mr. Monster’s scrapbook, and more!

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CBA Contest Results

Atlas/Seaboard Cover Contest Congratulations to our cover contest winner, Joe Briscuso, Jr.!

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Phew! Maybe you thought we forgot to announce the winner of our CBA #16 “identify the Atlas/Seaboard Comics characters” on that issue’s back cover. Well, honestly, we kinda did but, better late than never, here’s the results. On the very same day the issue went on sale, Joe Briscuso e-mailed CBA and correctly gave us the names of those unforgettable (or was that “forgettable”?) A/S heroes. Here’s the correct list: 1. Sgt. Hawk (this was tough, but I think I see a moustache). 2. Sgt. Ben Stryker 3. Kromag 4. Wulf the Barbarian 5. Scorpion 6. Vicki (a.k.a. Tippy Teen) 7. Andrax 8. Phoenix 9. Destructor 10. Sam Lomax 11. Luke Malone 12. Captain Chris Galland 13. Morlock 14. Demon Hunter 15. Dragon 16. Cougar 17. Son of Dracula 18. Tiger-Man 19. The Brute 20. Kid Cody 21. Comanche Kid ("Renegade" on the cover) 22. Iron Jaw 23. John Targitt, Man-Stalker 24. Grim Ghost 25. Man-Monster 26. Bog Beast 27. The Tarantula Congrats, Joe! Now whaddaya want? Kudos to Scott deBoom, Perry Ellison, and a reader from Houston, Texas (whose name got chopped off his fax), for giving it the old college try! Art by and ©2002 Allan Kupperberg. Characters ©1975 Seaboard Periodicals.

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July 2002

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

CBA Roundtable

In Easy Company A comfortable conversation with the talented Kubert Men, Below: While the photocopy of the original art credited 100-Page Super Spectacular #DC-16 as where this pin-up appeared, we suspect it originally debuted in a 1960s 80-Page Giant, judging from the art style and artist Joe Kubert’s signature. We’ve digitally edited the image to take out numbered call-outs which identified these, the combat happy Joes of Sgt. Rock’s Easy Company. Courtesy of Andrew Steven. ©2002 DC Comics.

Conducted by Jon B. Cooke with Arlen Schumer and Chris Knowles Transcribed by Jon B. Knutson Joe Kubert is one of the true masters of comic book art with a career spanning back to the early days of the medium up to the present day. Always challenging, always striving to produce better work, Joe is that rare combination of inspired artist, astute businessman, and engaging teacher. His two youngest boys, Adam and Andy, are best called “chips off the old block,” each an exceptional artist in his own right, both dedicated to the form and the essence of storytelling. Ye Ed and associates Arlen Schumer and Chris Knowles met with the Kuberts on February 8, 2002, at the Joe Kubert School of Cartooning and Illustration, in Dover, New Jersey, where we were first joined by Joe and a bit later by his sons as we chatted in Joe’s office. We’ve put all of Arlen, Chris and Jon’s questions under the generic “CBA” identification for simplicity. This interview was copy edited by Joe and Andy, and approved by Adam. Comic Book Artist: Joe, where are you originally from? Joe Kubert: The major part of my growing up took place in Brooklyn, New York. CBA: Did you have any neighborhood kids who were also into cartooning? Joe: Not really. CBA: How did you get into it? Joe: I have no idea! Like most of the guys in this business of my time, as a little kid, I used to draw on the streets with chalk, things like that. I’ve been drawing since I can remember, since I could hold a pencil. Why I gravitated towards this kind of work? What stimulated me was, early on, was seeing in the newspapers strips like Tarzan and Prince Valiant, Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon, Terry and the Pirates. All of these were so incredibly stimulating to me, and the kinds of drawings seemed so immediate, and I knew that’s what I wanted to do. CBA: Did you feel lucky to grow up in the Golden Age of adventure strips? Joe: Who the hell knew about a Golden Age? I have felt lucky all my life. I consider myself one of the luckiest people in the world! Even at this advanced age, here I am being able to do that which I love to do more than anything else, and they pay me for it! So how lucky can you get? [laughs] CBA: How many brothers and sisters did you have? Joe: I have four sisters. I was next to the oldest. CBA: What kind of neighborhood was it you grew up in? Joe: Good neighborhood, as far as I knew. It was definitely working class East New

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with the Kuberts comics legend Joe and super-star sons, Adam & Andy York, in Brooklyn. I grew up in the late ’20s and early ’30s. It was a rough time, they tell me, but I never remember being hungry, I never remember being unclothed or cold or anything else. As far as I could tell, it was fine, it was a wonderful upbringing, despite the Great Depression that was taking place. CBA: Did you listen to the radio? Joe: All the time. Especially when I was working, I’d have the radio going, listening to all the different shows, the 15-minute dramatic programs on the radio… they were great. I really miss them. Every once in a while you can pick up some old tapes. They were terrific. CBA: The theater of the mind? Joe: Yes, of course. They had the half-hour adventure shows, The Shadow and all those kind of programs. They were extremely stimulating, and in retrospect for us guys who were drawing pictures, the shows fed our imagination. When I was working with Bob Kanigher, he had the ability to describe scenes and stories so I could create pictures so clearly in my mind, it was no problem drawing them! So, radio helped that process. CBA: You were influenced by radio? Joe: Absolutely. When I listened to the radio and heard these dramatized happenings—and I’m sure it was similar to most people at that time— I could see the pictures in my mind. It was an advantage, because I could imagine the heroes, the way they looked to me, and were acceptable to me, far different probably from anybody else. So nobody was selecting the character to play the part for me, I was doing the selecting in my own mind, and they always were right on the button, and looked exactly the way I thought they should. CBA: When you saw the illustrations by Edd Cartier of The Shadow in the pulps, for instance, did you look at them and say, “No, that’s not the way I see him?” Joe: No, I did not. How I visualized the radio programs, I thought were quite different from how they were illustrated in the pulp magazines. But, they both satisfied me. CBA: Did you have an affinity from the start with Hal Foster’s Tarzan? Joe: Yes, definitely. That’s one of the strips that really was so inspiring to me, and I say this in retrospect. I know I felt good reading the stuff. I know when I opened up the Sunday New York Daily Mirror (which no longer exists), and the Tarzan strip appeared in a tabloid size, on the back page. When I started reading that strip, it was as if I was right there! The guy drew in such a way that I felt I was there, was taking part in whatever the adventures were. I’m sure most guys who were drawing who were my age felt very much the same way. That pulled me right in. To me, that was like magic, so that if I could simulate something like that with my own drawing, that’s what I would do. That’s why, when I eventually did Tarzan at DC, it was like really rounding the Horn all over again, and it was great. CBA: Did you watch the MGM movies? Joe: Yeah. Of course, Johnny Weissmuller probably came as close to what I envisioned Tarzan to be as anybody. CBA: Did you have an affinity for the early films with Weissmuller and Maureen O’Sullivan, before they got campy? Joe: Yes, I think so, but I guess we’re all a result of the age in which we live and the July 2002

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Below: Though Dad is usually identified as a “DC artist,” the brothers are recalled for their prolific Marvel work. Today, they are top artists for the House of Ideas. This collaboration between Andy and Joe appeared as cover for Ghost Rider #29 featuring our fave X-Man. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Above and below: Soon after becoming an editor/artist at DC in 1968, Joe was given an entire DC Special devoted to his work. It included a delightful autobiographical strip written and drawn by Joe, the first two pages seen here. ©2002 DC Comics.

time we experienced. For me, they weren’t campy. For me, they were real. Frankenstein, Dracula… CBA: I was talking about the later pictures, in the ’40s. As good as Tarzan’s New York Adventure was, it still didn’t have the savagery, or the sexuality… well, sensuality, as the MGM movies. Joe: Sensuality more than sexuality, that’s true. CBA: Right, skimpy loincloths. [laughter] Tarzan was actually a radio show at the time, too? Joe: I don’t recall. It may have been; it must have been. They were all radio shows at one time or another, but I don’t really recall it specifically. CBA: Did you go to see the movie serials every Saturday? Joe: Oh, yes. The Flash Gordon series I remember vividly. Incidentally, at that time, it only cost ten cents to get into a movie. CBA: Apparently, going to the movies was much more elaborate in those days, right? They would routinely have different film shorts as well as features. What were the different short subjects? Joe: Oh, God. You’re really pulling memories out! [laughter] CBA: They’d have a cartoon, a travelogue, a newsreel… Joe: That’s right. The Movietone News, that’s right, and they’d have maybe two feature films, at least. Most kids, like myself, who went to the movies, would take their lunch along; we’d never go without food, and you sure as heck wouldn’t depend on what they offered at the theatre… I don’t think they sold anything at the movies at the time. You could grab something going in maybe, but I would

never do that. My mother would pack a heavy lunch, with sandwiches and everything! You’d be there for half-a-day! [laughter] CBA: Would you go in around noontime? Joe: Oh, it’d be during the day. That’s when the serials started… CBA: So there’d be a noon show, and it would go on until 4:00? Joe: That’s right, that’s about when we’d get out. It was still light out when we left the theatre but we’d be blinded, because we’d been in the dark for four hours straight! It was like striking the eye with a hot iron! CBA: Were you athletic? Joe: Yeah. I was, I played a lot of ball. Stickball, basketball, baseball, football. CBA: You had pick-up games? Joe: Oh, yes. CBA: Where would the hoop be, at the “Y”? Joe: This would be outside of the schools where there were the playgrounds. We used say, “Let’s play out in the lots.” Lots were open ground where you played… CBA: Stoopball? Joe: Stoopball was different; that’s what you played out in the streets. Stoopball’s where you’d throw the ball against the stoop steps, and then three guys behind you were supposed to catch it. We also played kick the can… it was at a time around the Depression, and nobody had a lot of dough. We used to make guns out of a couple of hunks of wood, put a rubber band on it, and put little square cardboards to shoot and blind your buddies! [laughter] CBA: Was it cowboys and Indians? Joe: I don’t recall cowboys and Indians… CBA: Was it gangsters and G-men? Joe: Gangsters mostly, yeah. That was the time when the original Scarface came out, with Paul Muni, and I think that had a terrific impression on young people, too. CBA: In Jack Kirby’s neighborhood, there was even admiration for some gangsters, like Bugsy Siegel. Joe: There was crime in the area, but I never experienced or felt any admiration. There was Murder, Incorporated, that was really running rampant. I grew up in East New York City, Brooklyn, but as a kid, I wasn’t aware of any of that stuff. I don’t think Jack was, for that matter. He wasn’t that much older than I, maybe five years older. CBA: Did your experience have more in common with Will Eisner’s, a fellow Brooklyn native? Joe: Right. CBA: Howie Post described parts of Brooklyn to me in rural terms. Was that so? Joe: Oh, yeah, there were farms not far away from where I was. CBA: Could you ride your bike there? Joe: I didn’t have a bike. We used to fool around with carts. We’d get a piece of 2’ x 4’ wood, and mount a box on it, take a pair of old skates, and put one part of a skate in front, the other part on the back, and that was your scooter, that’s what you rode on. CBA: Were they called scooters? Joe: No, they weren’t called scooters. What the hell were they called? CBA: So this was the preRobert Moses Brooklyn, and you still had farms and open areas like that? COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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Joe: There were still very much undeveloped areas. As I say, we lived in East New York, which was not a poor neighborhood, but not rich either. It’s hard to really describe it, because like I said, I never felt hungry and never felt cold. But there were cold water flats, but they had bathrooms inside, I recall. My mother and father had a restaurant/store on Sutter Avenue, in Brooklyn, and we had three rooms behind the store. So, my mother had this little establishment where she did the cooking, and made a couple of bucks. My father had a kosher butcher store a couple of blocks away, and he took care of business there, and we lived behind the restaurant. I don’t recall it being so terrible. As a matter of fact, I remember only good times, not bad. CBA: So there wasn’t a period your parents were out of work during the Depression? Joe: Yes, there were times when they were out of work, as a matter of fact. I remember one place we lived in East New York when my father and mother had to resort to relief; this was before they went to work for themselves. To have somebody come up and give a couple of bucks to them for food was the biggest shame a family could suffer, in those days. It was terrible, and my mother would make sure the kids didn’t know anything about it. We only learned about it years later. The neighbors didn’t know about it. I think that was a terrible, terrible shame to my parents. CBA: So your parents would go to the agent? Joe: They would come to the house. CBA: They just tried to keep it secret? Was it part of that self-reliant American attitude? Joe: I don’t know. CBA: Obviously, that was a much different feeling than today. Joe: Well, I don’t know which is right or which is wrong, but that’s the way it was, years ago. CBA: Where were your parents from? Joe: Poland. I was born in Poland. As a matter of fact, I just finished a graphic novel which I hope will be published soon. I’d rather not talk about it until something definite occurs with it! [laughs] But it’s about my family essentially. Even though a father at that time was supposed to be the head of the family, the matriarchy was much stronger behind the scene. For instance, when I started making a buck, the one who was the treasurer was my mother. [laughs] My father never had the dough, my mother would hold on to the money, and whenever anybody needed dough, you came to the treasurer. She took care of us. Anyhow, when they decided to come to the United States back in 1926, the first time they made the attempt, because my mother was pregnant with me, and they wouldn’t let her on the boat. She had come from Poland to Southampton, England to take the passage. My parents had to go back to Poland, give birth to me, and I was two months old when my parents left Europe to finally come to the United States. CBA: Why did they leave Poland? Joe: That’s a good question, because it wasn’t depressed. In fact, my mother’s family were pretty well to do. They raised cattle. My grandfather, who later came here, was a veterinarian. My father’s parents had a small business, like a grocery store. So it wasn’t because July 2002

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they were destitute or anything. My father, however, felt very strongly in order for his children to have an opportunity to do things, that America was the place. So, he decided to immigrate despite the fact that there was nothing terrible going on in Poland at that time. CBA: It was very prescient to do that. Joe: Very. As a matter of fact, the book I did was based on the premise of what if my parents hadn’t made it to the United States, and what would’ve happened if I remained in Europe. You see, we heard stories from friends, family, people from the town, who would come over and tell how terrible things were in 1939 and ’40, after Hitler came in. I was 13 years old at that time the Nazis invaded Poland, in September of ’39, and I was just getting started in my business. I sold my first work when I was 11, and started having things published, but I had been drawing all my life. Now, the book I’m doing is based on what would’ve happened if my father decided not to come. I still would’ve been interested in art, still would’ve been drawing… I do feel I still would’ve done the same thing, but obviously under different circumstances. CBA: So you would hear of the terrors when you were 13 years old? Joe: Oh, yeah, because that’s when people who were running from Europe. My father’s friends would come and tell of the terrible things that were happening in these small towns in Poland, where Jews were being killed, being driven into the streets, and all these terrible things were happening. The impact on me was really not great. I heard these stories, but it was almost like listening to fairy tales. I never read about them in the newspaper, or saw them, and they never told us about them in school. I remember distinctly some of the people coming up with the numbered tattoos on their arms, who’d

Above: The aforementioned autobiographical strip in DC Special #5 featured this panel depicting the entire Kubert clan (sans the artist, of course). Note the two squirts on the far right, subjects in this very interview. ©2002 DC Comics. Below: Joe Kubert’s DC Special also included a letters page featuring laudatory missives from his peers, as well as this pair from some important folks a bit closer to home. ©2002 DC Comics.

Above: In an industry obsessed with super-heroes, Joe Kubert never particularly shined to the genre, prefering to continually work as the quintessential war comics artist during the ’50s and ’60s, and well into the next decade. But the master did contribute significantly to the “DC Universe” with a set of exquisitely rendered Hawkman stories (The Brave and the Bold #34-36, 42-44), tales that remains in print to this day. Ye Ed tried talking the Kubert men into drawing a cover featuring Adam Strange versus the Winged Wonder (given the sons’ brief association with the interstellar traveler with the 1990 Adam Strange mini-series), but as Joe is so jazzed working on a Sgt. Rock graphic novel with writer Brian Azzarello, he wanted to portray the two-fisted soldier. I suggested having Adam and Andy stand-in for Easy Company troopers and, well, look on our cover and see the wonderful result! This pencil illo by Joe appeared on the back cover of The Amazing World of DC Comics #1. ©2002 DC Comics 20

escaped from the concentration camps. CBA: Did you hear anything about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising during the war? Joe: No. CBA: So there was no inkling of just how systematic the Nazis were all with the concentration camps? Joe: No. The only time we heard about it was almost at the war’s end, when the United States Army was making such great leaps forward, and started coming across these camps. It was shocking to the servicemen coming in, because they never knew such a thing could ever exist! CBA: My mother recalls seeing the newsreels, and being totally devastated by that as a young girl. How could humanity commit such atrocities? Joe: That’s right. It’s beyond anybody’s imagination. CBA: You obviously have had a long period of your career doing American war comics. After Steven Spielberg directed Schindler’s List, he said he’d never do a movie having Nazis featured as almost cartoon villains, as he had previously done in Raiders of the Lost Ark. In Sgt. Rock, there was the Iron Major and all these caricatures of Nazis. Are you somewhat ambivalent about it now, about the image of fighting cartoon Nazis with fists in Sgt. Rock? Joe: Not really. It’s a different kind of thing, completely. This book that I’ve done now is treating them in a different way, because of the subject matter, because of the audience. The stories we were doing during the war, and in the ’50s and ’60s… no, I don’t have any ambivalence. First of all, most of the stuff I never even wrote, and I just drew them. For me to say, “No, I don’t want to do this story,” meant “No, there’s not going to be dough coming in.” So, that was the deciding factor. And I had no reason to think those things.

CBA: But when you did become editor of Our Army at War and other titles, you dealt squarely with the Holocaust in a number of stories. When you became in charge, you dealt with the issue. Joe: Well, the country was starting to deal with the Holocaust differently by then. I wanted to make it clear that, despite the fact that I was editing war books, that we were not glorifying war. It wasn’t like, “Go out and kill everybody!” I had men go into the Army, become soldiers, and die… not because they want to, but because they had to. There’s a difference. CBA: Especially at a time, in the late ’60s and early ’70s, when there was an increasing national ambivalence about the Armed Services, what’s very interesting was your approach in those comics was very humane. Humanity is the key to your work, I think. If I’m mischaracterizing you, please tell me, but you’ve also seemed to have an incredible work ethic. You always give any job in front of you your all. You stay focused on it, no matter what the story is. Joe: I don’t know if you’d call it a “work ethic.” To me, it’s the only way I can work. I think that’s true of most people in any of the areas of art. It’s nice if you can make a living at it, and as I said before, I believe myself to be very fortunate to make money at something which I love to do, but more important than that is, I get great satisfaction and gratification from what I do. The harder I work at it, the more pleasure I get out of it. As a matter of fact, it’s painful for me to do less than my best efforts than I’m doing. While that’s just me, I think that’s true of any artist. If you had a deadline, and you’ve got to get that stuff out, and your neck is in the wringer unless you get it out, and then you’re going to get it out any which way that you can. But there’s no question in my mind that for any artist—and I use the term “artist” specifically—who can draw finds a tremendous tactile satisfaction you get out of doing the work in the first place. The harder you work, the closer you get to that vision you have in your head about what it is you’re trying to do, the greater the satisfaction. So if you don’t really try your best to do the best job you can, you’ve got to be nuts! You’ve got to be crazy to do this stuff in the first place! But no, I think you’re right: I do apply myself the way you described, but not only me, I think any artist who has any sense about what they’re doing will apply themselves in the same manner. CBA: But there’s a flakiness in many artists. I love and admire artists, obviously; I do a magazine devoted to them, and they’re very sensitive children, really. Joe: Flaky? How do you mean? CBA: Honestly? You’re a man who has made the best out of your career, I believe. I think an awful lot of artists basically haven’t. They do comics because they love it. Comic book creating is very intensive labor, and oftentimes, the return is not really there for the amount of effort put into it. Joe: All true, all true. CBA: You look at an artist like Mort Meskin, or any number of people who truly put their whole life into the art form, just because they love it, because there’s this passion about doing it, but

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they too often have no business acumen, so there is often no reward in the end. Now, I think you put an equal amount of effort into being pragmatic about the business end. It’s obvious, you love comics because it shows in your work, but you’re in a good position now, with this [indicates the school], your stature in the industry, and the fact that you’re not resting on your laurels but still producing viable, important work. You seem to have your eyes on the prize, and you have valuable insight, both as a teacher and a successful, smart artist, to impart on those thinking about this business. Look, you’ve even got two sons working successfully in the industry right now, not because of who their father is, but because of their own talents. Joe: I’m the luckiest guy in the world! I’ll say it again and again! That’s what it is! [laughter] CBA: But you’ve worked really hard to be where you are now. The harder you work, the luckier you get. Joe: That’s not necessarily so. There are guys I know, just as you described, who worked their asses off doing comics, and the luck just wasn’t with them. It was for me. Look at me, I have two kids that come into the business who have the kind of high-silhouette personality, jobs, work that they’re doing, who feel as intensely about the work as I do! That’s a miracle, as far as I’m concerned! Miraculous! It’s not anything I did, it just worked that way! I have five kids, and thank God, all of them are healthy, and all of them are good kids. Pure, unadulterated luck. You know as well as I, some of the best families in the world, some of the best mothers and fathers, have the worst kids, and some of the worst families, some of the worst fathers and mothers, have the best kids! How do you figure that? Pure luck. [laughs] CBA: And, generally, good parents do raise good kids. You obviously put in a lot of effort to raise a family. Joe: Sure, don’t we all? [laughs] CBA: What are the ages of your sisters? Joe: I have one older sister (who just passed away just recently) two-and-one-half years older than I. My next sister is just two years younger than I. I have another sister who’s about 10 years younger, and another one who’s about 18 years younger. CBA: Did you help with the caring of your youngest sister? Joe: We all helped. In my family, whenever my sisters went to work, they never cashed a check. When I went to work, I hadn’t cashed a check on my own until I got married. Mine went directly to the treasurer, [laughter] and whatever she had to do, she did. Whenever I needed dough, I had it! CBA: What was your mom’s name? Joe: Etta. CBA: And your father? Joe: Jacob. I have a grandson named for him. CBA: Were your family orthodox Jews? Did you go to the synagogue regularly? Joe: Knowledgeable, rather than orthodox. My father was a cantor, as well as a Kosher butcher, and he was extremely well-educated, especially in the religion. But he was not a zealot. As a matter of fact, he had a lot of doubts and questions about a lot of things, and I guess he planted those in me, too.

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CBA: How was his singing voice? Joe: Not tremendous, but he did beautiful things with it. CBA: Did he like going to temple? Joe: Yeah. CBA: Did you go every Friday night? Joe: I don’t attend now, but I did. As a matter of fact, I was a choirboy when I was about eight or nine years old. Not so much because I could sing so well, but that was another way of making a buck! [laughter] When a Jewish girl would get married, usually they would have a nice little affair, and if the father was really putting out, he would have a Jewish choir that would sing along when the ceremony took place. I participated in that kind of a choir. They paid the magnificent sum of maybe 50¢ or a buck for the night. Which was great! CBA: Is the name Kubert shortened from something? Joe: No. There are people with the same last name who’ve contacted me who had seen my name in publications and asked, “Are you from this family?” And invariably other Kuberts who live in Europe or through the United States have some family connection with mine. CBA: It doesn’t sound Polish. Joe: I don’t know what the derivation is, but it’s never been changed to my knowledge. [continued on page 24]

Above: Sigh. Was there ever a better continuing series in an American war comic book than Enemy Ace in the ’60s? As realized by the late, great writer Robert Kanigher and artist Joe Kubert, the character epitomized the ambivalent, turbulent decade. This cover depicts the Hammer of Hell’s debut as star of a regular series in Star Spangled War Stories #138 (which lasted until #150). Art by who else? Courtesy of Tom Horvitz. ©2002 DC Comics.

Inset center: Just for a lark, here’s a detail of Joe’s cover art for Our Army at War #162 featuring the first part of one of the odder—and most engaging—team-ups of the ’60s, Sgt. Rock and Jon, the Viking Prince. ©2002 DC Comics. 21

Papa Joe, The Rock and… some guy named Azzarello [Ye Ed had the opportunity to recently chat with hot comic book scribe Brian Azzarello (as we’re featuring an issue devoted to his charming wife, Jill Thompson, in CBA #23) and we asked the writer of the acclaimed DC title 100 Bullets what was it like working with Joe Kubert on a Sgt. Rock graphic novel. What follows is a compilation of Brian’s comments taken during that phone call.—Y.E.] I used to buy Joe’s work as a kid—I loved DC’s war books. If a comic had a Joe Kubert cover on it, I’d immediately pick it up and take it home, because there was something about Joe’s art that made those covers more compelling than anything else on the racks. Each of Joe’s covers told a story that grabbed me—many times more so than the

actual story being told in the interiors. Sgt. Rock had been through three or four different writers before I was fortunate enough to land the gig. At the time, there was no artist attached to the project. I knew that Joe had signed on to do the covers, and then Karen Berger called me and said that, in speaking to Joe, she learned that he was interested in doing the book itself. I said, “Yeah, sure, I’ll step aside. I’d love to read that. If Joe Kubert wants to write and draw Sgt. Rock, there’s no question about bowing out." But she said, “No, Joe wants to do it with you.” Turned out Joe was a fan of 100 Bullets, and was interested in working with me on Rock. That’s not too much pressure, huh? Joe and I met this past January, and over lunch I told

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sat down and they've flowed out of his fingertips. It’s incredible. Is this project a dream come true? No—I never dreamt I would ever work with Joe—or write Sgt. Rock for that matter. It's more than a little humbling that Joe asked to work with me on a character that he will be forever linked with. Joe inspired me; I couldn’t have imagined this situation. Joe Kubert is a master and I’m very lucky to get this chance to work with him. Sgt. Rock is the first character I've written that I was actually a fan of and I owe something to. It means a lot to be writing his story. It means much more to be working with Joe. —Brian Azzarello

About the artwork on this spread: No, these are not pages from the Azzarello/Kubert graphic novel. Though no one seems to recall why, this 15-page Sgt. Rock story from 1978 was written by Robert Kanigher, penciled by Joe Kubert, then lettered, but the artist abandoned the inks early on. Here’s pages two to five, plus our background images feature choice pencil scenes from other panels. Courtesy of Andrew Steven. ©2002 DC Comics.

him what my vision for the project was. I told him a not-so-straight World War Two story; I wasn’t interested in doing a “what happened to Rock after the war”, a post-Vietnam, politically-correct approach or a psychological musing on the nature of warfare. Sgt. Rock works best telling a straight-ass war story, y’know? War is hell, and hell is for heroes. So what makes the men of Easy Company heroes? I wanted to delve into their characters. Joe liked the direction; I wrote up a proposal fleshing out what we'd discussed and sent it to him, asking if he had any changes. He gave it the thumbs up, so now I’m scripting it and he's drawing it. It’s amazing how Joe's pencils look so effortless. When his pages peel out of my fax machine, it seems like he's just

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Inset right: Unpublished Tarzan vignette from the early 1970s by Joe Kubert, perhaps intended for use with the shortlived digestsized comic or a treasury edition. Courtesy of the Kuberts. Tarzan ©2002 ERB, Inc.

Below: While hardly ever mentioned, Joe’s “Firehair” was an outstanding, humanistic comic series, an essay on racism and a gorgeously rendered strip to boot, which appeared in the pages of Showcase (#85-87) and Tomahawk (#131-134, 136) for an all-too brief period in the late ’60s/early ’70s. This image was taken from a silverprint courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 DC Comics

CBA: Is the proper pronunciation: “Que-bert”? Joe: Some people used to call my mother and father “Koo-bert.” CBA: Many people still do. Joe: I guess. My folks would answer to almost anything! [laughs] CBA: Did you have any uncles or aunts who came over, too? Joe: Some but not many. CBA: Did you get together during the Jewish holidays? Joe: Yes, family would visit. Some who were better off living in the Bronx at the time, we’d visit. CBA: As a kid, did you see yourself as one day being a family man? Joe: That thought never entered my mind. It just wasn’t a thought I had! I believed someday I’d get married, but even that was kind of a vague vision. I never really thought of it. Yet, after I met my wife, I told her when I saw her the second time, “We’re going to get married.” CBA: And that’s it? Joe: And that’s it! CBA: It wasn’t even asking! [laughter] There’s some aspects of the Golden Age that I’ve always found incredibly romantic, and there’s an image I always have in my mind of Joe Kubert at 11, working in the studio, being around these people you actually admired, marinat-

ed in this comic book culture, working in a studio! Joe: You’re probably right. I just got out of junior high school, eighth grade going into ninth, when I got my first job working in Will Eisner’s studio. It was the summer and all I did there was just sweep stuff out. Will often kids around and tells me that I probably used a broom better than anybody he ever knew! [laughter] I learned so much. CBA: Well, it’s a big version of a brush, right? Joe: I learned so much from that guy. He’s still a dear friend. This was when Will had his studio set-up in Tudor City. I think I had first worked for Jerry Iger, who had a shop on Third Avenue, a shop, and I was there for a short time, and then for some reason, during the summer months, I gravitated to working for Will. I don’t know how I got there, or who had suggested that I see him. But Will hired me, erasing stuff and sweeping out, and he let me do some drawings, too. I did some half-page illustrations that eventually found there way into The Spirit magazine. I don’t know where the hell they are, or what happened to them. That was when Dave Berg was there, just breaking in, as a matter of fact. CBA: Was Nick Viscardi there? Joe: Viscardi was doing “Lady Luck.” Tex Blaisdell was there… I used to play handball with Tex. CBA: He used to work here at the school, right? Joe: Yeah, he worked there for years. I’ve known him for 50, 60 years. CBA: Was Bob Powell there? Joe: Oh, yeah. Bob was there. CBA: Was Louis Fine there? Joe: Lou had his own place. He was there, but had another set of offices in the same building. I only saw him once. I worked with Fine in Connecticut when he was doing The Spirit. This was when Will was drafted into the Army, and Lou took over the job of producing The Spirit. Alex Kotsky was also working there at the time. CBA: You started with Jerry Iger in roughly what year? Was it before Superman? Joe: It was after Superman. CBA: Publishers ran out of reprints and new material was needed. all of a sudden, the opportunity arose. How did you know there was an opportunity for you? Joe: It all started as a serendipitous move. I was going to junior high school—this must’ve been seventh grade—when I was living in East Flatbush, Brooklyn, and if you drew pictures, you suddenly become the most popular person in the world. The guys in my class would ask, “Draw a picture on my arm. Etch me a picture on there of a naked girl.” Well, one of my buddies at the time said, “Joe, you do these drawings. I have an uncle who publishes comic books in New York. Why don’t you take your drawings up and show them to him?” I said, “Gee whiz, where is he?” (Again, I’m 10, 11 years old.) “Where is he?” “He’s on Canal Street, MLJ.” The forerunner of Archie Comics was on Canal Street. I made my drawings, which I packed up into an old newspaper, and took them up there. Harry Shorten, the writer, was up there, Mort Meskin was on staff… geez, I can remember Mort sitting there in the room by the window, working. Irv Novick was there, and he gave me my first lesson on how to actually draw a German helmet. I inked some of the first Archie stories Bob Montana was working on up there at the time. He saw I could handle a brush and a pen, even at that young and tender age, and he had enough guts to let me try on his work! CBA: What did you think of the material? Did you think it would go anywhere? Joe: The concern never even entered my mind! CBA: It’s work! Joe: That’s right! Sit down and ink a couple of lines, let me work an extra hour… I learned how to do this stuff. I don’t recall one pro I ever met who ever turned his back on me when I asked for advice, or COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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never tried to help me. Not one! Here’s this obnoxious kid, coming up with these scratchy drawings—God, they were horrible!—and every one of them, including guys like Novick and Meskin, would go over my drawings, and say, “Well, do this, do that,” and that’s how I was able to learn. CBA: Did they like you? Joe: Geez, I don’t know. I hope so! [laughter] CBA: Do you think you were a likeable kid? Joe: I couldn’t imagine! I couldn’t… [laughs] Who the hell knows? CBA: You’re pretty likeable now! [laughter] Practice, practice, practice! People don’t change, they only grow more so, my mother used to say. Joe: That’s true! That happens to be good and bad. CBA: Later on, did you realize you were making an impact with fans, especially when you were working with editor Shelly Mayer in the later ’40s? Joe: Never! CBA: Some people really sparked into your stuff. Joe: I’ve got to tell you: When I did the work, when I did the drawing, I never dreamed that anybody more than a block away even looked at it! I never dreamed they were being distributed that way, or that they would have any kind of impact on anybody! I was doing the stuff because I loved to do this kind of work, and they were paying me for it! CBA: Kids especially liked your version of Hawkman. Joe: I never even thought of it, never knew it. It never would’ve interested me. The guy I was really learning from at that time was, of course, Shelly Mayer. He was truly one of my mentors. He was a true editor. Most of the young editors I find today are more traffic managers than traditional editors. Get the stuff in, make sure it goes to this person, make sure this part of the work…. Which is part and parcel of the work! But Shelly would sit with me and say, “Well, if you did this to the character, he would look more like the character should.” Or, “A young person looks this way in proportion to this and that.” He was terrific. He was that way with everybody. He was that way with Carmine Infantino, Alex Toth, all the guys who came through at that time. CBA: Was he flamboyant with you? Carmine would tell me stories of Shelly jumping up on tables and just having fun, horsing around with Irwin Hasen, for instance. Joe: He was that kind of a person, but I never saw him do or act in any kind of a real crazy way that I’ve heard. I had been present when he took Irwin’s work… their office up on Lafayette Street, where Mr. Gaines’ books were being produced at the time... CBA: All-American Comics. Joe: …225 Lafayette Street. The offices were divided by glass panels, so you could see from one to the other, where the writers were, where the editors were, and so on. Shelly’s office, too, was completely glass-enclosed. I recall being maybe 14 at the time, I was going to high school, and I remember seeing Shelly take some artist’s work, and just fling it across the room, and I was stunned, because the artist didn’t do anything about it! I mean, if it was me, I would’ve picked the guy up and thrown him out the window! You don’t just do that to people unless you expect that kind of reaction. But the guy who was standing there, Irwin will tell you to this day—Irwin Hasen, who’s teaching here at the school—he just stood there and he said he didn’t know if Shelly was a nut or just letting off steam, and that was fine. I never saw that part; Shelly was never, ever like that to me. CBA: He probably played to personalities. I’ve heard stories, I mean, literally just ripping up work. Joe: Never happened with me. As a matter of fact, I think he probably had more patience with me than anybody I know of. I was terrible with deadlines. CBA: Were you the youngest of all your peers? Are you younger than Alex Toth? Joe: No, Alex is younger than I. Alex came in later than I. Anyhow, there would be times I didn’t get the work in. I’d finish a job, and there was an extra buck that came in, well I had enough for the next week, I didn’t have to do any more work. And so when I got the next strip, especially when I was doing Hawkman, a lot of times I didn’t meet the deadline. I would call up and my mother would say, “He’s sick in bed, he can’t do the work!” [laughs] Shelly would go, “I see.” July 2002

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But he had all kinds of patience, and he took that, and I never saw any of the slightest sign of abuse or anything like that from him, ever. CBA: The story about Shelly tearing up the art was just a gag played to shock somebody. Joe: I learned how to ride a horse because of Shelly. He was a cowboy… CBA: A Jewish cowboy? [laughs] Joe: A Jewish cowboy, and I remember Shelly, Lee Elias, Irwin Hasen and myself… I don’t know how old I was at that time, maybe 16. We drove up to

Above: For Ye Ed, few comics were ever better than Joe’s spectacular run as artist/writer of DC’s incarnation of Tarzan, which graced newsstands in the early to mid-1970s. Courtesy of the Kuberts, here’s a tissue layout drawn by Joe, an initial design attempt for the first DC issue’s cover. ©2002 DC Comics. Tarzan ©2002 ERB, Inc. 25

a dude ranch in upstate New York, and that’s the first time I learned how to ride a horse. CBA: Did you hang out with the artists much? Joe: Well, none of the artists, I think, really hung out, that I know of. Well, first of all, I was young, and most of the other guys were older. There was that gap. But beyond that, most of the guys worked at home. They didn’t work up in the studio that was offered by the publisher, so the only time we really met or got together was when we all happened to be bringing up work at the same time. And usually that was every other week that had occurred. Even when I had a studio in New York for a while in later years, when I was 19, 20 years old, and there were a lot of guys who worked in the same area, there wasn’t a hell of a lot of socializing. CBA: Did you have time to have fun? You were obviously going to school, and you were doing assignments for Shelly Mayer… Joe: I think so. One of the reasons I was late on deadlines was because I liked to have fun! [laughs] I spent most of my time with sports. I liked swimming, and all the other stuff that I got into. CBA: Have you always been athletic? Joe: I found it was absolutely necessary for me, because just sitting at the table, you can grow into one big lump. CBA: Many guys do, right? [laughs] Joe: It happens, and it could happen to anybody, and I found when I did some sort of regular exercise, I just felt a hell of a lot better, so that’s what I did. CBA: Did you ever smoke? Joe: Oh, yeah. I stopped about 40 years ago. I stopped because… it’s very simple. I was working, and I used to smoke most heavily when I was working. I started smoking when I was about 25, when I first got into the Army, because when they say, “Break time,” everybody lights up, and you’re standing there… it was pretty soon after that I started to smoke! But when I got out, I did most of my smoking when I was working, and I found later on, I’d have one cigarette in my hand, one cigarette in the ashtray, and three of them… I said, “What the hell is happening?” It had such a heavy grip on me, so I 26

said, “I’ve got to stop this, I just don’t want to continue,” and I just stopped. CBA: You just stopped? So, this was around the time of the Surgeon General’s report? Joe: It just didn’t feel good, I had a lousy taste in my mouth, and I stank all the time! So I just stopped. CBA: Would you characterize yourself as competitive? Joe: Competitive in what way? You mean try to be better than somebody else? CBA: Not better, I mean in a healthy way. I have three brothers, we were always in a healthy competition all the time. Not one-upsmanship to be better than the other guy, but to really actually kind of tweak the other guy along. Joe: I had a partner by the name of Norman Maurer. Norm, I guess, would’ve played the role you just described. But as far as competitive is concerned, yeah, there’s one competitor I have, and that’s me. My constant competition is to try and get the next job I’m doing just a little bit better than the one I just finished. When I finish a piece of work, I look at it, “Yeah, that looks okay, but I could’ve done this, I could’ve done that,” next time will be a little better, and I think that’s where my heaviest competition is. CBA: You’ve certainly had a progression of style that very obviously changes. To look at your Golden Age “Hawkman” stuff and Fax from Sarajevo, you could easily believe it’s not the same guy. There’s a great progression to your abilities. In 1968, after you stopped doing the Tales of the Green Beret strip, and you came to DC as an artist/editor, when you started those double-page spreads, your work just exploded. I felt that’s when your more modern, mature style really first hit when you started doing “Enemy Ace,” a little earlier. Joe: I don’t know… I’ve never been able to really analyze what I do, or why I do it. CBA: But you weren’t doing those “Sgt. Rock” double-page spreads in ’65-’67, but you started to do that in ’68. (Though you did use them in Tor, in the 1950s.) In ’68, the coloring took a leap, also. Joe: I had the best colorist in the business: Tatjana Wood. She was fantastic. CBA: Probably one of the reasons I was asking about competitiveness was that by that time Neal Adams came on board at DC and I’m wondering if his presence at DC perhaps affected you. Did you feel a challenge? Joe: Oh, God, no! The only time I was ever challenged by Neal was once when he insisted we Indian wrestle on the ground. That’s the only competition, and I beat him! So, that was that… [laughter] CBA: I don’t mean that! I mean that he was a young Turk, came to DC with ideas from real-world publishing, and I was wondering if his spirit was infectious. Joe: When I see a good piece of work, it kind of raises the hair on the back of my neck, and it gives me as much pleasure as if I was doing it myself. When one of the students does a beautiful piece of work, that makes me feel terrific! I don’t feel as if they’re competing with me, or if there’s any kind of competition, it’s like going into a museum, if I see a beautiful piece of work in a museum, it’s gratifying to me that somebody was able to do something like that, and maybe gives COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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me another mark to shoot at. CBA: But that’s what I mean by competition: It inspires you to go to the next level. Joe: That’s inspiration! CBA: It’s like healthy competition, in a sense. Joe: To me, the word “competition” means you’re trying to beat somebody out. CBA: When did you meet Muriel? Joe: 51 years ago. CBA: How did you meet Norman? Joe: Norm and I went to high school together, started off in Music and Art High School together. CBA: He was an artist, too? Joe: Oh, yeah. He was a really good cartoonist. [Andy Kubert enters the room, greetings are exchanged] CBA: Where did you meet Muriel? Joe: During the summer, my mother would rent a large house down on Bradley Beach, and in order to make an extra couple of bucks, she would sublet some of the rooms to other people. She rented it to someone who had a friend, Muriel, who came up to visit. That’s where I met her. CBA: When did you get married? Joe: 1951. Shortly before that, I was drafted into the Army. CBA: So you had a 50th wedding anniversary last year? Joe: [To Andy] Did we have a party for our 50th? Andy Kubert: We went to New York. Joe: I have 11 grandchildren and five kids, so there was quite a crowd, and it was great. They bought tickets to a show in New York, rented a big bus so all of us could go, and we all went to a restaurant… Andy: We saw Blue Man Group in the Village. CBA: [Indicating DC Special #5] Are these all your children right here? We have Muriel, your wife. Dave’s your oldest? Joe: Dave’s my oldest, yeah. CBA: What does Dave do? Joe: Dave is vice-president of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers for New Jersey, for the entire state. CBA: Has he always been an electrician? Joe: A cable guy. [laughter] That’s cable “man”! [laughter] He’s got two children now. His son is an attorney, just graduated law school about three or four months ago, passed the bar, and he’s practicing now. CBA: What year was Dave born in, roughly? Joe: Dave’s going to be 49 this year, so around 1953, right after I got out of the Army. CBA: You and Norm created the incredible 3-D comics craze of the early 1950s. Was it a good bundle of cash you made while it lasted? Joe: It bought my first house. Norm and I did this together, of course, or we kicked it off [laughs]… he came out of California, and rented a place in Lake Hopatcong, which is not far from here, in order for us to do the work, because we had this load of work coming through now after 3-D hit big. When we kicked off the 3-D, and we signed the contracts with St. John’s Publishing, and on the way home we stopped off, and each of us bought a brand new car, Buicks. That was what got us our first house. CBA: Danny is your next-oldest boy? Joe: Danny is two years younger than Dave… [Adam enters] My son, Adam. [Introductions are made] Danny is into antique toys and stuff like that. He’s got his own business going and is doing very well. CBA: Does he sell on eBay? Joe: Yes, and doing very nicely. My daughter Lisa lives in West Virginia, has two children, and she’s working with me in the school. She has her computer set up so she’s doing stuff in connection with my Correspondence Courses. Then there are these two atrocious kids [points to Joe’s caricatures of Andy and Adam]… CBA: Are they still atrocious? Joe: Especially. [points to Andy] He used to be a little fat guy. Andy Kubert: Now I’m a big fat guy. [laughter] CBA: So Adam and Andy are the only ones who became artists of your children? Joe: Yeah. CBA: Adam, what year were you born? July 2002

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Adam: 1959. CBA: Andy? Andy: ’62. CBA: When you were very young, did you have an idea what your father did? Andy: Oh, yeah, I knew what he did, but it didn’t seem that extraordinary. I mean, he was always home, but that’s what I grew up with, that’s what I was used to. CBA: But your neighbors, your friends must have been impressed. Andy: I didn’t have any friends. [laughter] CBA: There I go, making assumptions again! Joe: Consider the fact that Adam started to letter in the business at about the age of 11, and he was on the TV game show What’s My Line? as the youngest contestant! Adam: I was 13! I was featured as the youngest professional letterer in comics. CBA: Did you letter exclusively for your dad? Adam: Yeah, he was the only one I could letter for. [laughter] CBA: You mean that wasn’t John Costanza? [To Joe] You always lettered, right? You just have that distinctive lettering, and you just passed it on. Adam: Well, first he taught John Costanza to letter, and then he

Below: Unpublished cover by Joe for Ragman #6 from Cancelled Comics Cavalcade. See CBA Collection Vol. 2 for more rarelyseen Kubert covers. Courtesy of Bill Alger. ©2002 DC Comics. Opposite page, top: During his prolific editor/artist stint at DC Comics, Joe scripted as well as drew pencil breakdowns for numerous stories. Here’s a typical example of his scripting and layout approach, composed for a Filipino artist to finish. Alas, this particular issue, #8, of Rima was never realized as the title was canceled with #7. Courtesy of the Kuberts. Rima ©2002 the respective copyright holder. Far Left: Joe’s self-prtrait from The Amazing World of DC Comics #1. Bottom inset: The Rock by J.K, from Joe Kubert: The War Years. ©2002 DC Comics. 27

Adam: [laughs] Yeah, I couldn’t, either! taught Andy and I. Above: Two more unpublished Kubert covers from Sitting there dipping all the time…. [laughter] Andy: I did letter, though I haven’t lettered for years now. Cancelled Comics Cavalcade. Courtesy of Bill Alger. Joe: Also at that time, before the Speedballs, Joe: [Indicates Andy] He did lettering for Heavy Metal. ©2002 DC Comics. Below: The Viking Commando we used to file a pen… I showed you that. Adam: No, I did. That was a great job. from an unidentified G.I. Combat cover. Courtesy Adam: We used to do that: File it down…. Joe: And Andy did Spider-Man. of the Kuberts. ©2002 DC Comics. CBA: Okay, fellas! This is not the how-to Adam: I lettered a story for Steve Ditko. magazine! That would be Draw! [laughter] CBA: [Incredulous, to Joe] You taught John Costanza to letter? Costanza’s Joe: I taught lettering for a year. the best flippin’ letterer in the business! Good job, Joe! Andy: Hy Eisman told me one time, “I must’ve [laughter] done something wrong in a previous life, because Joe: It was John, not me! It doesn’t take much to be a I’ve been reincarnated as a lettering teacher.” letterer, not at all. [laughter] CBA: John can obviously cartoon draw very well, too. He’s a distinctive letterer, and to this day, when I see his Adam: He should teach narrative art; he’s a great latest work, I still go, “He’s fantastic!” cartoonist. Joe: He’s terrific. He’s been teaching at the school Joe: He’s good. All I did was give him the basics, and as long as it’s been around, 26 years. he took it from there. Same thing with any of the kids. CBA: [To Adam] Is your first memory of your dad It’s no big deal to letter; you don’t have to know how to when he was working on the war books? draw to letter. CBA: But you obviously did it all yourself: pencil, ink, Adam: Yeah, the Sgt. Rock books. He did the letter. Using that Speedball is a tricky tool. war stuff and Tarzan, things like that. As a kid, I didn’t really like the realistic comic books. I liked Joe: Trickier than a Speedball is a brush! I mean, you put the stuff with the super-heroes. I think the war a brush in the hands of anybody who’s trying it for the stuff was a little too real. I wanted more fantasy first time is like… you’re crippled! But these are tools you types of stories, like The Flash and Superman, have to learn how to use. which I really liked. I also liked reading Sugar Adam: I switched from a Speedball to a Rapid-O-Graph. and Spike when I was really young. Joe: Did you? CBA: Would you say that perhaps you did Adam: Yeah. not appreciate your father’s work as well as your Joe: [To Andy] I think you used a Rapid-O-Graph, too, typical fan? didn’t you? Adam: I didn’t appreciate it at all! [laughter] That is, until I started Andy: Yeah, I couldn’t stand that Speedball. 28

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doing it, “Wow, this is really hard! You were really good!” [laughter] CBA: [To Joe] Where was your studio? Upstairs? In the basement? Andy: You were in the basement, then over the garage. Joe: Right. CBA: [Points to the DC Special prologue] Were you always working through the night? Joe: I don’t think so. Adam: Yeah, you were! [laughter] CBA: I’ve got that right here. The cartoonist at home! Andy: Proof! Adam: That’s not a realistic assumption, Jon! CBA: [To Joe] But you drew that! Adam: The studio was above the garage, but you had to walk through my bedroom to get to it. Andy: I was in there, too. We shared a room, and I was up there all the time. Joe: Well, I worked all day, it wasn’t like I was— Adam: Poor kid! Andy: At three in the morning— Adam: He’d walk back and forth, through the bedroom, a lot of times. Joe: Did I? I guess it’s true. CBA: So, as a night owl, would you sleep pretty late? Andy: I don’t remember if he slept late or not. I don’t know. Adam: Well, he tried to, but sometimes [to Andy] if you and I were fighting in the morning, we woke him up! [laughs] Andy: Yeah, and that wasn’t a good thing! Adam: That’s true! CBA: [Points to DC Special prologue] How long have you been in living in this house? Joe: About 40 years. That’s the house we built.

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Andy: See, Adam… [shows comic] Adam: The House of Mystery… Lovecraftian! [laughter] Andy: Adam didn’t love the war stuff, but I did. Dad used to bring home stacks of comics, comps, and I used to go through them. I loved “Sgt. Rock,” “Enemy Ace”… CBA: When he came out with his Tarzan, you were ten years old. Andy: Yeah, I loved it. Remember they put him in a treasury-sized thing? CBA: Oh, a couple of them! Andy: I used to read them, and re-read and re-read those… I still have them and still like them. Adam: With the dioramas on the back? Andy: Exactly, and how to draw Tarzan… you start out with a little squiggle, then a couple more squiggles to make a Joe Kubert Tarzan! [laughter] CBA: Joe, you also did one of the first features about tools, about brushes, and as a kid growing up wanting to draw comics, that was some secret knowledge. That was one of the first times someone actually drew what the pen points looked like. I remember that was like the Holy Grail of secret knowledge being handed down. Joe: That was at the behest of Carmine Infantino, who was the editorial director of the books at that time, and he asked, “Joe, what do you think about doing something like this?” and he instigated it. CBA: In those days, you had to hunt high and low for that information. Joe: Yeah. Well, it’s still true today. In fact, that’s probably one of the reasons that I started the school, and the reason I think it’s still doing pretty good. Both Adam and Andy are now teaching at the school, too. But I don’t think there are many other places where you can actually gain the kind of knowledge you need to get started… I was lucky, [to his sons] I told you guys, I got my knowledge from people 29

Above: In 1987, Joe worked up concept drawings for a project titled “Jack, the Giant Killer.” Courtesy of the Kuberts, here’s a pair of ’em. ©2002 Joe Kubert. Inset right: Joe was away from his office at press time, so we couldn’t ask what was up with this educational project written and drawn by J.K. Maybe next time! ©2002 Joe Kubert. Below: This life drawing by Joe looks to have been done in the late 1950s/early ’60s. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Joe Kubert.

who helped me when I tried getting in! There aren’t a lot of places that you can gain that knowledge… comics are a unique form, and the tools that you use are also unique. So I think that’s one of the reasons this school is still around and doing as well as it is. CBA: Also there are not a lot of schools where they really teach you how to draw anymore, either. I remember when I was looking at colleges, and schools outside of SVA, figure drawing was just something they didn’t even consider, just totally secondary to them. They wanted to turn out layout artists and paste-up artists, and that was basically what they did. Joe: I’ve found there are more guys who wanted to become artists, who wanted to draw, were ruined by poor high school art teachers, than those who had benefited from them. I’ve seen it over and over and over again. CBA: Absolutely, there’s no question about it. Adam: I went to school in Rochester, before going to my dad’s school. They didn’t teach you to draw out of your head. They had figure drawing classes, you had to feel the figure, feel the gesture, the weight and the balance and all that. That’s because of the ’60s. Andy: It was anti-representational, all about feeling and emotions… shapes and all. Adam: Not even shapes, but light and shadow, which is great, but you turn around, and there’s no way you can draw that out of your head, you just don’t know the proportions or any of that. Joe: As a matter of fact, one of the reasons Adam said he wanted to come to this school, was because he felt he wanted to draw, and didn’t feel that he was doing that at Rochester. Adam came out as a medical illustrator, and got a job, but found he was unhappy doing it because he really wasn’t drawing. He was rendering, but he wasn’t really drawing. CBA: I think a whole generation of artists was kind of lost from vogue, in the early ’70s and on… a lot of schools just stopped teaching drawing, and started teaching observation. I think it’s a real turnaround now, but I think that contributed to illustration not being in the magazines as much as it was a generation before, because they didn’t have the talent pool! They couldn’t get the people in who could draw! Adam: What’s happening now with computers these days is they’re taking a step back. They’re letting the computer do all the work when it can’t really do all the work. They’re depending too much on the computer rendering and having it look finished and beautiful. Joe: The computer can’t actually draw; it’s just another tool, but it

can capture an image and you can play around. Adam: But you can feel like an artist, like you can do something. If young artists don’t learn how to make what I call a “mark with style,” then what happens, because the computer’s so easy, the computer, the software becomes the style. So Photoshop becomes the look, instead of somebody bringing their own style into the computer, and that comes down to drawing. Joe: I’ve heard horror stories where art directors are now taking the work of artists who they hired to do a particular kind of work, then they feed it into the computer and change composition, change proportions of pictures themselves. CBA: [To Joe] When a lot of the Filipino talent was coming into comics in the ’70s, you did The Bible with Nestor Redondo. How did you work with those guys? I see you did a lot of the layouts for them. Joe: I gave them very clear, very detailed layouts, and I would ship that to them. Nestor, a tremendously talented guy, stayed within the bounds of that to some extent, and then went beyond with a little bit of stuff, and I think he did one of the most beautiful jobs on that work that I’ve ever seen. CBA: Did you enjoy Rima? Joe: I think I probably would’ve preferred to have done it myself. Not because Nestor didn’t do a beautiful job; he did. But I felt the same kind of frustration—the few times anybody has inked my work—it’s not that it’s any worse, it’s just so different from what I would’ve done. Nestor’s work was absolutely beautiful, but I still would’ve done it different. CBA: One of the artists on Tarzan was Rudy Flores, and I thought he was getting very close to your style. Joe: Everything the Filipino artists did on my work I had broken down for them. CBA: [To Adam and Andy] Did you tell your friends that your father worked in comics? Adam: I didn’t have to, they knew. My dad would come out to our grade school, and draw for everyone. They had— CBA: You brought your dad for Show & Tell? Adam: Yeah, I brought him for Show & Tell, but for the whole school! [laughter] I mean, everybody knew what he did, he was in the newspapers. CBA: [To Joe] Would you do community stuff? Joe: Oh, yes, if it involved my kids, but only if it involved them.

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Adam: [To Joe] Remember the wrestling program you drew for Dave? My brother Dave wrestled, and they had this big, thick program for the tournament, and you did every page, it was like the Dover Tigers, you’d draw a wrestler with a tiger head. They were great, too! If it was the Rams, you’d have a wrestler with a ram’s head. They were really nice. Joe: Dave came second in the state! Adam: In fact, I’ve done a couple of things. My son’s a Boy Scout, so I did a picture of a Scout with Captain America on a T-shirt, and I just think of some of the stuff [points to Joe] he did when we were growing up. I mean, you would have the whole school go out, and you’d be standing out there with a big newsprint pad, drawing whatever, and a kid would shout out… there’s no way I could get up in front of those 300 little kids and draw a velociraptor fighting Tarzan! [laughter] CBA: Is that called a chalk talk? Adam: For me it would be “choke talk.” [laughter] Andy: When we went to Academy Street grade school, you did an assembly with an overhead projector in front of the whole school, and somebody asked you to draw Snoopy, you drew Superman and other super-heroes, but Snoopy he couldn’t do! [laughter] He tried! Adam: Have you tried? Andy: Yeah, I “tried”! CBA: Were any of your older siblings interested in art at all? Adam: Well, my sister, Lisa, is a year-and-a-half older than me, and she went to the Fashion Institute of Technology, for displays, but she took some art classes and things like that, but she’s not into it to the extent Andy and I are. CBA: Were there any other creative streaks in your siblings? Music, or writing? Joe: It seems to be coming out in their children. I’m quite surprised. [Points to Adam] His daughter does some terrific writing and drawing, and his son is into music. Andy’s daughter, Emma, also draws very well for a five-year-old. As a matter of fact, I’m doing a package now for a publisher, and getting some feedback from my grandson— Andy’s son, Sammy—as to what might interest and stimulate a young cartoonist, and I’m trying to incorporate into this stuff I’m doing. CBA: How old are your kids? July 2002

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Andy: Emma is seven, and Sam is 11. CBA: And yours? Adam: May is 13, Elizabeth is 11 and Jay is 5. CBA: That’s just about like mine. I just got a 13-year-old as of yesterday, the teenage years begin. [To Joe] Were they good kids? Joe: I must tell you… Adam: Oh, no…. [laughter] You forget! Andy: He didn’t find out! Joe: I knew they were very good… well, look at them! How many times did we all troop into a restaurant, five kids and two adults, with a line of kids, and after we’d finish eating, the restaurateur, whoever was there, and say, “Gee whiz, I’ve never seen such wellmannered children.” Adam: That’s because we shuffled into it! [laughter] Joe: That’s right! Adam: Our legs were tired; we couldn’t run away! CBA: Was he a disciplinarian? Adam: Yeah, he kept us in line. CBA: Was everything a routine? Andy: Yeah, pretty much. Not that bad. CBA: As parents would go, are Muriel and Joe pretty much equal? Andy: As far as disciplinarians? CBA: You know, regular routine, when you came home from school, stuff like that? Adam: They were both home all the time, so I guess it was pretty much equal. CBA: It was atypical in the ’50s and ’60s to have both parents at home. Joe: I was very lucky. I love working at home, love being at home, love being with the kids and with their families, so it just worked out real well. CBA: Did you feel you had to make an effort?

Above: Yo, sports fans! Apparently our man Joe composed a few weeks worth of syndicated newspaper strips starring Rocky Balboa, Sylvester Stallone’s long-running pugilist movie character. What an oddity! Courtesy of the Kuberts. Rocky ©2002 the respective copyright holder. Below: A couple more concept sketches for Joe’s intrigueing Jack, the Giant Killer project. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Joe Kubert.

Andy: No, not at all. Joe: He was really unusual—and he still is—because most people who become interested in drawing usually do so at a very young age. Not him. He had some fleeting interest. I’ve always felt the reason for it was, one time when he was really very young, like maybe 10 or 11, he showed some interest in drawing. He was in my studio, and I’d be working, drawing, as I would be, and he was having some difficulty with a particular drawing, and I remember this… Andy: [Small voice] I don’t. Joe: …more a lesson for me than for him. Andy: Scarred me for life. [laughter] Joe: Because he did the drawing, or tried to do the drawing, and he was having a difficult time, and he brought it over to me to ask me to help him. I was deep into what I was doing, and said, “Fine!” I took it, and I made the correction in the drawing right away, and I remember he looked at the drawing—he had been working on it for an hour and couldn’t get it to look right—of course, I did it right away, and he saw that happen, he looked at me, looked at the drawing, threw the drawing away, and he did not touch a pencil again… Adam: Until yesterday! [laughter] Andy: You know, it doesn’t show! Joe: The day before yesterday, and the reason was, I’m sure, was because he saw me do something so easily—I’d been doing it forever, of course—but I did it so easily, and he had been trying so hard and not been able to accomplish it that he felt, “The hell, I can’t do this, I’m stuck.” Andy: It still happens to this day. [laughter] I come down, look at what he does, I go, “Oh, I can’t do this.” CBA: Joe, you were somebody who really worked, you weren’t a prodigy, you were somebody who really put in the hours, don’t you think? Joe: Yeah! CBA: That sounded convincing. [laughter] No, I’m saying, you weren’t like Mozart, drawing comics when you first picked up a pencil. You paid your dues. Andy: Adam had it, right at the beginning. [laughter] You know, he did. CBA: I’m not saying Joe wasn’t talented; I’m saying that it must’ve been hard for your boys to measure themselves against somebody who had worked so hard to get to where he was. Joe: Well, they would probably tell you better than I. Adam: No, he’s right! [laughter] CBA: All the way back to “Hawkman,” there were some people who are crazy about Joe Kubert’s work, whether it’s your 1947 work or 1969. I can’t see that as the same person, so there obviously is tremendous growth. And, with the son of the famous father syndrome, you had two, within the world of comics, you had to surmount his tremendous reputation. Adam: I don’t know if I ever felt that, because if I ever thought about it, I don’t think I would’ve been able to do it. Andy: I can’t do it anymore! [laughter] CBA: We have here an exclusive! [laughter] The breakdown! CBA: As the sons of a famous father, you’ve got high marks to follow. Do you guys feel there was any prejudice against you? Adam: No, not at all. Andy: No. Adam: If anything, it opened doors, to be able to get in there to at least talk to people in the business. My father started me out on lettering really early, that got me in the door. CBA: You guys did some back-up stories in some of the Sgt. Rock comics. Adam: Well, Andy did. Joe: Well, I can’t be more candid to tell you that I think these two guys are so tremendously talented. I think that’s really a miracle. It’s no bull. It’s not because they’re sitting here. Adam Arlen Schumer

For instance, there are stories about some artists whose kids just remember him staying up all night, just working. “Don’t bother him, he’s working.” Joe: Was I that way? Adam: Well, yeah, but we were never told not to bother you. Nothing like that. Joe: Did you feel that way? Andy: The only time I remember being told not to bother you was when you were working on Superman and the Demon [DC Presents #66], because you had to get it all done in a weekend. You said, “I’ve got to get it done, just leave me alone.” Above: Through his school’s 25+ year existence, certainly Joe CBA: That was a great job! Kubert is personally responsible for the development of more Adam: Yeah, it was! [laughter] comic book artists than any studio or company bullpen in the When he’s working here, he does history of the medium in this country. Here, in an unlabeled his drawing and his work, I never picture courtesy of the Kuberts, Joe gives a drawing lesson. feel like bothering him when I Below: For his newest venture, a correspondence course, Joe come in. created an iconic caricature of himsef, dressed in his tradeJoe: No, I love it. mark casual attire. Bottom: Pic of the roundtable discussion CBA: Is this where you work that took place in Joe’s office. By Chris Knowles. regularly now, Joe? You don’t work at home? Joe: No, I can’t. I think it was easier overall, when I was working at home with growing kids. My wife Muriel tells me so it was a lot easier for her, too, because if she had to get out with the five kids, it’s quite a yoke around the neck, but my being home, and I’m working anyhow, it’s no big deal, so if she has to go someplace or do something, or if the kids got too much for her, then I’m there, and I think it made it easier all the way around. I was glad that I was there! When the boys went into Cub Scouts, I felt, “I’m not going to send the kids off to have other people do babysitting for me,” I became involved, and I had to be, just as [points to Adam] he does now! You have to become involved with kids, you can’t let somebody else run it! What the hell are you going to complain about if things don’t work out the way you feel they should? CBA: Were you a Den father? Joe: Something like that. Andy: You were involved. Adam: [Very dramatically] Denmaster! I think it was more like Taskmaster! [laughter] CBA: Were you drawing at a young age?

Andy 32

Joe

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Very rarely I’ll even say it, but the proof of it is the stuff they’re doing, and the acceptance by editors and by the readers who are buying their stuff. They’re doing the best-selling books on the market today! CBA: What’s also amazing is they started out pretty much in the shadow of your style. I remember the Adam Strange three-part mini-series, which pretty much was you guys together, but it looked like your father’s work. That was really my first awareness of your work, going, “Oh, the Kubert guys are working in their father’s style. Well, that’s a natural.” But obviously, since then, you’ve both come into your own and developed your own styles, which is equally amazing. Even if you had stayed as kind of poor-man’s Kuberts, that ain’t bad, either! So the fact that you then gone on to become your own men is doubly an achievement. Joe: I’m really proud of these guys. CBA: [To Joe] I could be wrong, but the only person, besides your boys, I see who has adapted some of your stylings is Frank Thorne, though he definitely grew from there. I look at your art and can’t precisely read your influences. Andy: Bernet? Adam: Oh, Bernet. CBA: Yes, absolutely. But in contemporary American— CBA: Ditko started out as a 1947 Kubert clone in the early ’50s. Neal Adams started out heavily influenced by your art. But do you look at your work and say, “Yeah, I see the influence of Hal Foster”? Joe: In my own stuff? Absolutely. In fact, I’m influenced by Alex Raymond, Milt Caniff, Michelangelo and by every other artist that I admire, absolutely. God, if I weren’t influenced by them, to me, it would be like starting to invent the wheel all over again, when these guys have taken tremendous steps forward! If I can learn from them—which is what I’ve tried to do—God, what a terrific advantage for me! CBA: Joe, the Big Three— your generation were all influenced by either Sickles/ Caniff, Hal Foster or Alex Raymond, but where did your brush and pen line really come from? Where did that expressive brushstroke— Joe: I have no idea. No idea in this world. I’m sure that all of these guys… I feel, like I say, all these guys have definitely influenced me, but where, precisely or exactly? I don’t know. CBA: [To Adam and Andy] Let me ask you guys: Do you think that your father has a self-possession of that, that he really is a school unto himself? Never mind the obvious, here. Joe: Oh, geez. [laughter] CBA: I’ve never seen any Kirby in your work, for instance. There’s been a lot of trends that have come and gone in your lifetime, but I’ve never seen you pick them up… you are your own trend. Andy: When I was learning stuff, and dad was showing me, he July 2002

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would go over all my work, even when I was first breaking in… still does, to this day I show him my work and get critique on it. CBA: Is he an honest critique? Andy: Oh, yes! [laughter] Joe: I’ve got to tell you, though… Andy: He pulls no punches. Joe: …you talk about the cherry on top of the whipped cream, these two guys have their studio here, I see them virtually every day, and… CBA: Oh, you guys work here in the school? Adam and Andy: Yeah. CBA: You go and criticize everything… Adam: No, we come down here. [laughter] Joe: They bring their work up to me, and I show them my stuff that I’m working on, because I want their reaction to what I’m doing, too. CBA: They must be teaching you a few things now. Joe: They are! They sure as

Inset left: Joe Kubert’s graphic novel Fax from Sarajevo was a landmark achievement for the artist/writer, his first major foray into autobiographical territory, albeit covering the tribulations of his European art agent and friend, Ervin Rustamagic, during the recent conflict in Bosnia. The book is still available through Dark Horse Comics, who kindly contributed this page of line art. ©2002 Joe Kubert. Inset lower left: Both Adam and Andy Kubert first achieved notariety with their art collabation on the 1987 Doc Savage mini-series, written by Dennis O’Neil and published by DC. Doc Savage ©2002 Condé Nast. Below: Andy Kubert’s art really came into its own with Adam Strange, a three-issue mini-series written by Richard Bruning and colored by brother Adam. Here’s a detail of Andy’s cover art for #2. ©2002 DC Comics.

hell are! Absolutely. CBA: One of the reasons there aren’t a lot of people who work in your style and can pull it off, Joe, is one has to be really good and have worked a long time to get that kind of spontaneity. It’s just a lot easier said than done. A friend of mine at one time wanted to draw like Moebius, and said, “You have to draw a long time to draw like Moebius!” Joe: And how. CBA: I think what he wanted was that spontaneity, and I would liken you, almost, to humor artists, like Bill Watterson [Calvin and Hobbes], who’s got that spontaneity, that energy in the brushwork, more than a realistic artist. Joe: That’s a real compliment. Adam: You can have all your influences, but it has to come from here. It’s such a gut thing, a gut reaction, and a gut feeling for what you’re doing, rather than trying to emulate somebody or go in that direction. CBA: Did you boys make a conscious decision to break out of his style, after Adam Strange, and the next couple of years after that? Or did it just happen? Andy: Well, I loved my father’s work. I still love the stuff! I’m heavily influenced by that, that’s what you saw in Adam Strange, and of course, I got critiqued by him on that series. Besides going over the work, he’d point me in a direction as to who to look 33

your father’s style there, but you have to really look. Adam: Well, I think what you see is in the storytelling, because I think we tell a story similarly, and that’s probably the common thread right now. CBA: [To Joe] Often, you go through the same wonderful riffs: You’ll have an aerial shot, then a close-up, then an insert panel in the middle of a bigger one. You have this wonderful visual vocabulary you’ve almost created unto yourself, that I can also see translating nicely in the work of the graduates from this school: Rick Veitch, Steve Bissette, Tom Yeates, Totleben… a number of the artists… and I’ve forgotten my question! [laughter] A lot of your graduates and early students were much more strongly influenced by you than later people. Did you teach all three years back then? Adam: I think it might’ve been the fact that he had more regular work out in the market than he does now. Joe: I’m not sure. CBA: It may also be that the rich background a lot of these guys had; their appreciation of the work, too. The school also developed over the past 25 years, and it’s become broader, in a way. Joe: I think it has. CBA: But what a freshman class! Rick, Steve…. Joe: I couldn’t be more proud of these guys, I think they’re terrific. I’m only sorry I don’t see a hell of a lot more of their stuff. Tom Yeates has done beautiful work. CBA: John Totleben graduated in the second class. Joe: He was almost adopted by Harry Chesler, when Harry was still alive. Harry had hired John to do some stuff just for himself, just so Totleben could have a couple of extra bucks. CBA: [To Adam and Andy] I just saw an ad for the school in a comic that mentioned you two were teaching here now. What are you teaching? Adam: I’m teaching first year narrative art, and Andy’s teaching second year, and my dad’s teaching third year. So we’re kind of spread out over the three years. CBA: Why did you guys decide to teach? Adam: Because I’m already here. Because— Joe: Because I pulled them in! [laughter] Actually, I felt as they were working, and I think the years they’ve been out doing the stuff they have, I think they’ve been doing incredible stuff, and I’ve always had it in the back of my head that if and when the time was right, they should, little by little, come into the school, and I felt, at this juncture, their work has reached a level… but again, like I told them at the beginning, this is just a trial thing. If it doesn’t work out, or if they feel it’s inhibiting them in any way… Adam: “They’re fired!” [laughter] Joe: They can forget about it. It’s no big deal. But I did feel, for myself, that this might be the right time, for the amount of work

Above: Father Joe came in to assist Andy by inking his son’s pencils on this issue of The Punisher War Journal #31. Andy tells us he was supposed to take over the strip but, “something fell through,” and he missed out on the gig. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

at, as far as influences. [To Joe] You gave me all those Hal Foster and Alex Raymond books which I was never aware of back then, and that helped. That’s how it all came through. CBA: [To Adam] I thought you hit your individual stride on Batman/Predator. Adam: I inked it, [indicating Andy] he penciled it. CBA: Well, both then! [laughter] Adam: I only colored Adam Strange. CBA: Your work was different before that, and it became different after that. Adam: It wasn’t conscious. It’s still not conscious, as far as what direction I go in. Andy: It’s more like you’re looking at stuff you see you like, and whether you do it consciously or subconsciously, it’s going to affect you and your drawing. Joe: I think that’s true. Andy: You might see something and say, “Oh, I like that.” CBA: When you look at Bill Sienkiewicz’s stuff now, you can still see, if you look really close, the Neal Adams influence, but Bill has gone so far beyond. I get the same thing, when I look at you guys’ stuff now: You look closely, you can still see COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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both Adam and Andy are doing, the kind of work they’re doing. The one thing that’s bothered me, and I’ve told them this over and over, the one thing that’s bothering me terribly about the work they’re doing is that they’re not doing the complete job. Both penciling and inking. Working at the school might result in more of their being able to do their own complete jobs. CBA: Did you guys develop a curriculum or was it spontaneous? Joe: No, the boys are involved now. I will not inhibit or pull them back from the commitments they have with Marvel. Frankly, they’re making too much dough for me to even attempt to do anything like that! [laughter] But they’re more involved in what’s going on at the school here than just teaching. In addition to the one day a week instruction, they’re involved with whatever happens with the school, whatever developments are going to be taking place, whatever things we might do in order to be able to expand on, make it more strong. And, like I said before, if it doesn’t work out, if they feel it’s inhibiting them, and they want to go into another direction other than what we’ve described, that’s great, that’s fine. So we tried it and it didn’t work out. That’s it. CBA: [To Adam and Andy] How do you feel about the students? Do you feel they have a good focus on the fundamentals? I remember a few years ago there was this whole Rob Liefeld/Image kind of look where everybody just wanted to draw pin-ups. Do you feel students nowadays are more focused on storytelling than they might’ve been a few years ago? Andy: When I do a demonstration in class on storytelling—and I go about demonstrations in the same way dad used to show me—you could hear a pin drop in that class. They would just stare right ahead. And it makes you feel real good that they’re on the up-and-up, they really want to learn this, and they want to see how it’s being done, pretty much. So they stay really focused. Adam: I was here a few years ago, and gave a talk—actually, in my old classroom—and I noticed that there was a lot… I felt there was a better skill level, as far as the mechanics, than when I was there. Joe: I think that’s true, and I think that’s been true every year since I started the school. That is, the level of competency in the average person coming in is at a higher point than the one before. CBA: To what would you attribute that? Joe: I don’t know, I have no idea. [laughs] CBA: [To Joe] There’s something important about your generation, that you were influenced not only by other comic book artists, but also the magazine illustrators, comic strip artists, and other outside influences. [To Adam and Andy] Many comic book artists of your generation have been influenced simply by other super-hero comic book artists. Adam: You can see that in the students’ work. You have to make them forget about that, and just pound it into their head that what’s important is to tell the story clearly. You can’t do pin-up shot after pin-up shot and still tell a story.

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CBA: When the market itself is coming out with pin-up book after pin-up book, maybe not so much right now, but certainly in the last 10 years, for instance, how does a kid respond to you when he says, “Well, Rob Liefeld does that!” Adam: Well, today, that type of storytelling isn’t really in vogue. It’s not selling, because it’s not a story. CBA: It’s not storytelling? Adam: Yeah, it’s not storytelling. What’s selling now is good storytelling. Joe: One of the best guys around now is John Romita, Jr. Now, he tells a story. Andy: Oh, he’s great! His design, storytelling and basic drawing are some of the best in comics. He’s also very proficient. I love his work! Joe: He’s just terrific. You know, the boys and I have very often picked up a book and, sure as shooting, when John does a job, you can read it, you can see what the hell is going on, it’s dramatic, it’s effective, it’s got a lot of impact; he is good. Adam: I think that’s what the students are looking at, they’re now looking at good storytelling. This is my first year of teaching. I taught maybe 10 years ago, but I don’t really know what it was like when all these flashy images were in vogue. Right now, at Marvel, you have to tell a

Above: The most acclaimed Kubert brothers collaboration was their work on the 1991 three-issue mini-series, Batman Versus Predator, jointly published by DC and Dark Horse Comics. Courtesy of the Kuberts. Predator ©2002 the respective copyright holder. Batman ©2002 DC Comics.

Inset center: While brother Adam got the four-color “Got Milk?” print ad gig for Marvel, Andy penciled and inked this trio of trading cards that was used to promote the National Dairy Association’s ad campaign. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 35

Below: Sweet X-Men #55 cover art by penciler Andy Kubert and inker John Dell. The youngest Kubert recalls this particular run on X-Men as one of his favorite experiences in the field and that he loved Dell’s inks. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

good story, that’s what people want to see and read. I mean, that’s what I’m teaching in the classes. What Andy and my dad are teaching in the classes. CBA: Not only storytelling, but your father must’ve taught you the practicalities of the business, too? Adam: The practicalities, that you’ve got to make money? [laughter] Andy: How to conduct yourself with editors. Adam: Yeah, be professionals. I mean, return phone calls, things like that. CBA: Also the reality of the industry. You guys are pretty much known as Marvel artists, right? Adam: Yeah. CBA: But this guy’s a quintessential DC guy. Is there any difference there? Andy: Well, we both started out at DC. CBA: Do you consider yourselves Marvel artists, or do you consider yourselves comic book artists? You guys are quintessential Marvel artists, since 1990! [laughter] Andy: I had no reason to leave Marvel. They treat me phenomenally well, and always have, even through all their changes in leaderships and editors and all this other stuff. They

still stick right by me. I had no reason to leave. CBA: How did DC let you guys go, in a sense? Adam: They wouldn’t let me draw Lobo. [laughter] Andy: That’s true, that’s it! [laughter] Adam: Yeah, I really wanted to draw Lobo. I told Dan Raspler, I said, “I really want to do this.” I don’t know what happened, why I didn’t end up with that, and I saw Andy was over at Marvel, actually making royalties on stuff! [laughter] I could be making more money doing the same amount of work, that looks pretty good! There goes Andy! Yeah. Joe: One of the reasons for the success of both of them, is the fact that they act in a very professional manner. They’re dependable, are not nutty in terms of what they’re doing in the work anyhow, and people like to work with them. CBA: They’re obviously not full of themselves! Joe: Well, I’ve been told this by a number of professionals. Andy: Could you repeat that? [laughter] Adam: Once you start believing some of the things people are saying, all I have to do is come up here and watch my dad draw to get humble again. Andy: That’s it, that puts you right back down to earth. Adam: It does! It really does! CBA: John Jr. has got the sense of humility, humbleness, that you two obviously have. He’s a very sweet, nice guy, and you guys are very well-mannered people, too. [To Joe] You should be proud of that. [To Adam and Andy] Your father did not work in the superhero genre too much, but made his mark in war comics, Tor, Tarzan, now non-fiction graphic novels, and those other genres frankly just don’t exist anymore in today’s market. Do you guys have any interest in working on non-super-hero genre work? Adam: I’d love to. CBA: What would you like to do? Andy: [To Joe] The project you’re working on now! [laughs] That Sgt. Rock thing, oh, that would be so much work, though. CBA: You’re doing a Sgt. Rock thing? Joe: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I’m doing a 128-page hardcover book, written by Brian Azzarello. We just got together, as a matter of fact, last week, when DC had this get-together for their 9/11 book that they did, Brian came in from Chicago and got together with me and Karen Berger. Andy: Are you doing this for Vertigo, is that what you’re saying? Joe: Yeah. CBA: [To Adam and Andy] Why aren’t you guys pitching a Sgt. Fury book over at Marvel? Adam: You know how the comparisons that are… oh, man! [laughter] I get scared enough, that’s okay. CBA: You would like to do war material? Andy: Right now, with working on Wolverine Origin, it’s not really a super-hero book, and it’s so much fun to do. Adam: And it was shot from your pencils, too? Andy: Yeah, it was shot from the pencils. It’s just a breath of fresh air. Joe: Incidentally, have you seen his pencils on that job? Has anybody seen those pencils? Without the color on it? The pencils, to me, are so far superior… the colorist is great, what’s his name? Andy: Richard Isanove. Joe: Terrific colorist, but the pencils, I think, are far superior to what the stuff looks like. CBA: That must be a real treat for you, Joe, because you could never shoot from pencils back in the day. Joe: Oh, the kind of reproduction, the kind of printing, what’s happening in publishing today… God, it’s like working in the stone age compared to working on paper, it’s incredible! The difference is incredible! Andy: It’s amazing, I draw a page, scan it in, I’ve got an 11” x 17” scanner at home, I scan it in, e-mail it off to Richard in California… it’s amazing. Joe: I used to have to get up early the next morning after having not slept, drive into the city to bring my stuff into DC! [laughter] Andy: I don’t send out any originals at all. They don’t need them. CBA: [To Adam and Andy] Did you guys go through a period of rebellion at all? COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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Adam: Rebellion? [laughter] Andy: Not that he found out about! [laughter] CBA: Were you good teenagers, basically? Andy: Yeah. CBA: Is he your boss? Adam: He was when I was lettering, and I didn’t have a problem with it. Not that I can remember. But other than that, he’s never been my boss. Although, I think if he was my boss, I think we might butt heads a little bit, because there are certain ways he likes to do things, and certain ways I feel strongly about doing certain things, and if he’s my boss, he has the last word. Joe: You know, you ask a very good question, because we had discussed the possibility of maybe publishing some stuff between the two of them. Adam: Here comes the rebellion! [laughter] Joe: The situation, one of the discussions that we had—and it’s true—Adam said, “Well, what happens, dad, if I disagree with what you’ve said, and what you want to do as opposed to what I want to do?” I said, “Well, it depends on who the boss is. It depends on who has the responsibility. If you want to publish it, if you want to do all those things that are necessary to have your work, you’re the boss, and whatever you say is okay. If I’m the publisher, what I say goes! I’m not going to—” Adam: And at that point, I said, “I don’t think I can do that!” [laughter] I don’t think I can work like that! Joe: And if I were in his place, I would’ve said exactly the same thing! Exactly the same thing. CBA: Has it come full circle yet for either of you? If he shows you July 2002

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pages from the Holocaust graphic novel or the Sgt. Rock story, can you give open criticism about something he might not see? Adam: I think so, yeah. CBA: Can you give some examples? Adam: He might not follow it. [laughter] Joe: It’s the same with criticisms that I give. CBA: What would you say, as a for instance? Andy: Oh, boy. CBA: Would it be staging, would it be storytelling? Adam: Mostly, it’s not storytelling or anything like that; it’s mostly maybe an approach. Remember we talked about the Sgt. Rock thing, talking about maybe using a different approach on it? Joe: Yeah, a different style. Adam: Well, not a different style, just different layout-wise. Something different. CBA: Because it’s a Vertigo book? Adam: No, just something different than he’s done before, but not so different so when people pick it up, it’s so completely different they’re turned off by it. They want to see a Joe Kubert Sgt. Rock. Joe: I do intend to use your suggestion. That is, be a little more free with the kind of work I’ll be doing, in terms of the illustration. I mean, because of the fact that reproduction now, you can do so many things with it, why not take advantage of it? That’s what I intend to do. I want to have fun doing it. CBA: Are you going to color it, Joe? Joe: Everything that’s going to be done is going to be done right here, including the lettering, coloring… there’s nothing going to go out over which I don’t have some control.

CBA: [To Adam and Andy] How do you characterize your father, how do you look at him? Adam: This is too hard! [laughter] Joe: Should I step out of the room so they can really be candid? [laughter] Andy: I would have to say respectful. Professionalism, I mean… super, professionally. Meets all his deadlines, has ten jobs going on at once… probably does at least five times the amount of work I do, still runs the school and teaches, you know?

CBA: If you’ve learned anything from him, what is it? Adam: I don’t know if I could say it in front of him… Just be a professional. Joe: Good! [laughter] I was going to say, “Don’t answer that!” Adam: One of the biggest reasons Andy and I have done as well as we’ve done, is because we’re not dicks. In a nutshell. We call people back, we treat them with courtesy and professional, we do the work we’re supposed to do, we know our place. We’re working for a company, they have the last word. After my page leaves my board, again, they could do whatever they want, and there’s not much I can do about that. You have to accept that, and you have to realize that these are the parameters you’re working under. CBA: [Chris Knowles is speaking] Everything that you’ve just said,

Joe told to me when I was going to my first interview! You know, in a different… [to Joe] it’s funny, I remember sitting with you when your office was in the mansion, and I was just a 17-year-old kid, and everything you just said, Adam, Joe said to me. Adam: That’s where it came from! [laughter] Joe: I don’t think I treated anybody who came through the school in any other way, in any different way, than I did with the two boys. CBA: [Jon Cooke is speaking to Joe] I recall the first time I met you was at the Words and Pictures Museum, when Fax from Sarajevo was on exhibit, and I sat down and talked to you, and you gave me your full attention for an hour-and-a-half, but you didn’t know me from anybody. You just treated me straight, with respect, you didn’t have any pretense of shrugging me off as being the fanboy that I was. Joe: I didn’t know you then, but I know you now! [laughter] CBA: Hey, I took you out to lunch, Joe! Adam: And he’ll still do that, with somebody who writes him a letter, he’ll write back right away. CBA: Yes, he’s written me letters years ago. That’s just astonishing, frankly, because of the impact you’ve had on the industry. I think your stint as editor is one of the great legends of the business. Joe: I don’t understand that. CBA: I’ll shut up again. [To Andy] How would you characterize your father? Andy: Oh, man! CBA: These are tough ones, eh? Mentor? Andy: I was going to say intimidating. [laughter] CBA: You guys obviously have a great relationship. Andy: We get along real well. We just went out shopping before. [laughter] Joe: That’s right. CBA: Would you say that you’re friends with your father? Adam: Yeah. Andy: Oh, yeah. I could bounce anything off of him, talk about anything. Business stuff, anything. Feedback as far as career moves, whatever. It’s a gift. CBA: Do you admire your father for Fax from Sarajevo? Going into autobiographical territory…. Adam: Every time I look at one of his drawings, it’s something you just can’t touch. CBA: There’s a real maturity to the work right now. It’s not genre material, and he’s dealing with real life with Fax from Sarajevo, as I would assume the Holocaust project Joe were just talking about. Is your father going into this new level? Andy: Yes. Especially with this latest project… well, I haven’t read the Holocaust book yet. I skimmed through it, but you haven’t given me the whole thing… [laughs] but yeah, I think so. Especially going from comics and the graphic novels to getting into bookstores and things like that. I think it’s a great… he’s still going up the ladder. It’s amazing. CBA: [To Joe] You said they only do pencils, and that you were hoping by them teaching, it might lead to them doing…? Joe: Not necessarily do the teaching, I’m hoping they may be able to control their time a little better so that they can afford to say to their editors, “Well, look, instead of penciling 12 books a year, because of that schedule, maybe we can do four books a year completely, with our pencils, inks and letters.” I don’t think their individual voices are being heard through the material that they’re doing now, and that bothers me a helluva lot. CBA: Meaning you don’t feel their style is getting exposure? Joe: I don’t think their work is being shown! CBA: You mean, we should see their inking? Joe: Absolutely, because their pencils are then covered by somebody else’s inks, and then on top of that by somebody else’s color, over which they have some control, but not complete. I think that the stuff they’re capable of doing is not being done right now… even from a business standpoint, it’s a bad thing to do, because somebody who has their own voice—and that’s an expression I’ve adopted from Paul Levitz, he’s the one who uses that term, which I think is a good one—by not using their own voice, and showing their own stuff, they diminish the effect of the work they’re capable of doing, and thereby also diminishing the kind of recognition that would be forthcoming for their work. When your work is split up amongst three people, it COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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becomes the work of not one, but several. Each part can be substituted at any time. It’s just a piece of work. But when it’s done by one person—good or bad—it’s that person’s singular voice, and it has to be recognized for that voice, as that person’s complete job. CBA: Are you guys at a level where you’re able to say to Marvel: “Listen, I don’t want to just keep penciling; I want to pencil and ink”? Joe: Not yet. Adam: Well, I couldn’t be on a schedule. I just can’t pencil and ink a monthly book at this time. I can barely pencil a monthly book! [laughter] CBA: God bless you, that’s hard work. Joe: It is hard work, and my hope is, with what they’re going to be doing at the school, and maybe through that, be able to register their time a little more differently, allowing them to find that voice. I keep bugging them all the time, pushing them to do their own work, to do it completely by themselves. CBA: But aren’t they taking time away from the work by teaching? Joe: They each teach only one day a week. My feeling is by forcing them to cut back that one day a week, if they can regulate it for that one day a week, why can’t they extend that to say, “Look, I’m not hurting myself by cutting myself back this one day a week, maybe I can cut back a little bit more, and therefore, be able to take on the other kind of work, that is, do less books but be able to concentrate more on that one book.” I think it would be not only a gratifying and rewarding for them, in terms of their own feelings about the work they do, I think it would also be rewarding for them monetarily, if they did their own work completely. CBA: What about the company’s point of view? Joe: I don’t care about them. CBA: In the end, they are the one who usually pays for the work. Joe: Well, yeah, that’s the reason the company split the work up in the first place, so they could make their deadlines. Adam: From the company’s point of view, they would probably want to see as much of us out there as possible. Joe: That’s right, because that’s to their benefit. Adam: Which is fine, I mean, we make more royalties if the book is selling well. But there’re trade-offs. If we had our own characters— which Andy and I haven’t done yet, though that’s going to happen at some point—that would be a different level, and I would hope that my work would take a jump. That would be nice. Andy: That’s kind of the trajectory the Image guys did: They made their money at Marvel, and then went off with that fan power they had built and created their own characters. Adam: And I’m glad they did. That opened up the doors for us! Andy: I’m saying if this is the trajectory that you’re headed…. Joe: I see it in a different way. I don’t know how it’s going to pan out, how it’s going to work, but my hope is that they’re not going to start an operation where they’re going to be the entrepreneurs and not the actual workers, the guys who are actually doing the artwork. I think what had happened with the guys that were at Marvel, they put themselves into the position where they were able to do less and less work. I know Jim Lee now does hardly any drawing or artwork at all! CBA: None of them do, except for Erik Larsen. July 2002

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Joe: I’m hoping that doesn’t happen, and as Adam said, if they can work themselves into a position where the publishers themselves see the benefit to them and to the boys for them to take on one, two or three books a year instead of the dozen they’re doing, I think in the long run, not only would it benefit them—which I am primarily interested in—it would also benefit the publishers.

A Feminine Perspective

Muriel’s Memories

Private and personable Mrs. Kubert talks about Joe & the boys by Blake Bell

Above: Joe and Muriel Kubert recently celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. Courtesy of Blake Bell and the Kuberts.

I Have To Live With This Guy! is a forthcoming book by Blake Bell— where this article is excerpted from—and the author gave us this following description: Will Eisner does what? Alan Moore said that? Dave Sim is really like that? Penetrate the surface for a deep look at the roller coaster life of comic book creators and their spouses over the past 60 years. Buy a ticket to ride with Ann and Will Eisner, Joan and Stan Lee, Muriel and Joe Kubert, Adele and Harvey Kurtzman, Virginia and John Romita, Adrienne and Gene Colan, Josie and Dan DeCarlo, Lindy and Dick Ayers, Deni Loubert and Dave Sim, Eddie Sedarbaum and Howard Cruse, Jackie Estrada and Batton Lash, Melinda Gebbie and Alan Moore, Julie and Dave Cooper and more! You only thought you knew them. 40

Father Joe Kubert helps mold the picture of Muriel as a force in their sons’ lives. “She’s the one who really extends herself in every way to make sure every opportunity comes their way. She’s very family-oriented and the kids and the grandchildren are probably some of the most important facets of her life. “She’s very giving, almost too much so. Her mentioning ‘Kubert and Sons’ is an indication of where her thinking lies. The possibility of our sons to have enough interest to do this kind of work, and second to get involved in the school, I never really gave it much serious consideration because there are too many things that can happen. To bank on something like that would seem a little bit precarious, if not just silly. “Adam, at the age of 11 or 12, was lettering not only for me, but for other comics as well. Muriel would absolutely encourage them, but with young people, they may elicit an interest when they are 11 and 12, but by the time they are 13, the interest has disappeared.” Following up with an example of son Andy’s inferiority complex, Joe shares a danger of being the artist of the house, when sons aspire to the same heights. “John Romita probably had more insight on the situation than I with my sons,” says Joe. “There’s an incident that did bug the hell out of me. Very often, the kids would be drawing in my studio while I was working. Andy, at the age of nine or ten, was really laboring on a particular drawing that just didn’t work out. He brought it over to me and asked him if I would help him with it. I was intent and intense in the job that I was working on, and when he showed me the stuff, I said, ‘Sure!’ and made the correction very quickly. “But when I did the correction, Andy stopped in his tracks, looked at me, looked at his drawing, threw the drawing away and for years after that, didn’t pick up a pencil to draw again. It’s only later that I realized what I had done. Here the kid was slaving over the drawing for at least an hour, and couldn’t get it to look right. I picked it up and in a matter of a minute was able to make a correction. “I only realized later that his thoughts were, ‘Gee, if it took me so long to try to correct the drawing, and I wasn’t able to do it, and he did it in a second, I’ll never be able to do it.’ So, he decided he didn’t want to pursue it. It was only years later that he came back to do the drawing. He kept it in himself, until he had gone back into drawing and we talked about that. I had no idea that my doing the correction so quickly, without talking to him about it, how it would affect him.” With that many siblings, with two growing into artists, Muriel’s private nature would be a boon. Few hold their cards as close to the vest as does Muriel. “It’s just in me, as far back as I can remember. I’m not a gossip. I don’t talk about anybody else. My kids know if they tell me something—‘Mom, please don’t say anything’—I never talk from one kid to another. I feel my life is my own business.” Even with her own children, just to find out what they are

doing, Muriel says, “I have to pump them, and if you ask me what they’re doing, sometimes I don’t even know what strip they’re doing. I’ve looked at their artwork. They would show me a couple of pages, but I’ve never read them. When they started getting e-mail fan letters—I would get them and forward them on to Andy and Adam— then I knew they were a success.” While not exhibiting a great deal of direct influence over his work, she does try to help Joe keep the amount of time he has in perspective. “There were a couple of things I tried to talk him out of lately. I said, “you don’t have time for this.” He really wanted to do it, so I said okay. When it comes to his career, he’s the boss.” The most difficult period comes when Joe commences work on the Tales of the Green Beret syndicated strip. Lasting from 1965 to 1967, even with Jerry Capp writing the strip (based on Robin Moore’s book), Muriel will have no fond memories of that period, thanks to the physical and emotional strain it puts on her husband. “The deadlines on a syndicated strip are tough,” remembers Muriel. “You can’t call them and tell them you’re going be late. I respect the people that do it today. If we were going away on vacation, Joe would always have to drop the strip off in New York. When he was doing the strip, after awhile I was kind of agreeing with the protesters. I began to see that we shouldn’t be in the war at all and he’s still drawing The Green Beret. The Special Forces did a wonderful job, but that I was kind of against, but not enough to influence him and I wouldn’t even try.” Muriel first becomes acquainted with the high regard for her husband when she starts attending conventions. “I never really knew it,” says Muriel. “As I said, I didn’t know any cartoonists.” The image of the close-knitted, incestuous comic book industry is born of the late ’60s generation of artists. People make the assumption the comic book industry is so small and all New York based, but certainly from the ’40s to the ’60s, only if someone lives next door will an artist get to know his peer and their family. Otherwise, they all had a circle of friends who just weren’t cartoonists. “When you have five children,” says Muriel, “you don’t have time to go out of your way to meet other cartoonists. Just because you have something in common, as far as a career is concerned, doesn’t mean that you’re going to be friends with them. We had our own circle of friends right here. We’re very close with family, which took up a lot of time.” Muriel’s first memories of a convention are of Lucca, Italy, in the early ’70s. She remembers, “Just standing around watching these kids and when they saw Joe, their faces all turned red. I get a big kick out of them. I enjoyed watching them.” The male comic book fan, in the eyes of Muriel, is “always blushing—a little bit heavy; very nice, very shy, very quiet—maybe because they were intimidated by Joe. “There is a policeman in New York that works on the boats that go around doing scuba diving for bodies. He’s been writing to Joe for about four or five years. He’s a fan of Sgt. Rock and Joe would answer him. This fellow was very active in the World Trade Center [recovery effort] and he came out to see Joe for the first time a couple of weeks ago, brought his three kids, and Joe felt it was very heart-warming. It was probably the sincerity in the letter. They’ve had an on-going, sporadic communication.” “I have responded to a good number of letters,” says Joe, “that others might feel are innocuous. I feel almost compelled to do that in a lot of cases. This was a guy that sounded interesting. I found him very nice and he didn’t make a pest of himself. His letters came maybe three or four a year. Every once and awhile it was nice hearing from the guy.” An artist can perhaps measure the value of his work by the COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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tangible impact it has on the lives of others. “Another man sent an e-mail that Sgt. Rock saved his life,” notes Muriel. “His mother was a German Nazi. They lived here in this country and she was trying to indoctrinate her son into Nazism. “He said he was going crazy with her to the point where he would run off into the woods, when he was a young kid, trying to get her out of his system. Then he read one of the Sgt. Rock stories. He saw what Sgt. Rock thought and he realized that it is all psychological and that he’s not going to let it affect him. He says he just wrote a book on his childhood experiences.” Her first convention also provides the couple with a link that would have a direct impact on Joe’s work. “That also was the first time we met our Yugoslavian friend, Ervin Rustemagic—the subject of Joe’s Fax From Sarajevo book. Another cartoonist that we met for the first time was Hugo Pratt, a top Italian cartoonist. Hugo told us an anecdote about the time he was a prisoner in Ethiopia and what helped to maintain his sanity was his collection of comic books— mainly comic books illustrated by Joe!” Muriel’s memories of their life together centering around Joe’s career are at their sharpest when she is directly involved, like with the Kubert School, and with Fax From Sarajevo. “He really hit on the heart of what our friend Ervin and his family were going through. I was a part of that group sending faxes to Ervin and cutting out articles from The New York Times and sending them to him. I’d try to get transcripts of TV shows when I’d see something about what was going on there and getting that out to him. Maybe because I was a part of it, I enjoyed it more, but that is really at the heart of what the people there were going through.” From this perspective, Muriel can offer an opinion on what she likes about Joe’s work. “I loved the way he put details in everything. He’ll draw a living room with the statue in it and a picture on the wall. I mean, a picture that looks like a picture. The realistic drawings I think are super.” Like Anne T. Murphy (Archie Goodwin’s wife) and Joan Lee (Stan’s spouse), Muriel claims to have kept a great distance from her husband’s material. When asked what kind of influence she has over his work, or whether she would ever help Joe interpret his plots or his scripts, she responds with incredulous laughter. “Are you kidding? Do I look like Wonder Woman or something?” “That’s not necessarily true,” says husband Joe when queried about the contributions made by his wife. “As a matter of fact, I value her opinions greatly. She has an artistic bent, although not in art or drawing the things that I do, but I find it very valuable for me. The majority of the people who see the material that I do are not artists in and of themselves. Speaking to someone who is less inclined to give an artistic opinion, or who has art as a background but more reflective of the general public, I felt this was of extreme value to me. “She has a very high emotional response. By that I mean that she feels very much for people and things, so that when I did the Sarajevo book, she was very much taken by that. First of all, she knew the people involved. Second, it was like reliving a lot of the stuff she was directly involved in. “She was the person who maintained all the correspondences, all the faxes. She was the one who kept writing to Ervin. I would read and check everything that was going out, but she was doing all the physical work, and it was a hell of a lot of physical work. She was clipping out newspapers and reading every article she could that might be helpful to him. The result of having all those faxes that we had collected I think, primarily, was her doing.” Muriel reserves her reading for books, and not comics. “I am a voracious reader. I’m reading the history of the Santa Fe Trail from the beginning, when it was first Mexican property, going back to Montezuma. I like John Grisham and Nelson DeMille. I love Stephen Ambrose; he’s the one man I would love to meet. Just to go and sit and listen to him lecture, I would love it. I like biographies. I just finished David McCullough’s John Adams. I also just finished Theodore Roosevelt, T.R. Rex.” “She doesn’t have any real deep interest in comic books, per se,” points out Joe, “but there were things I had done like Fax and Abraham Stone, things where I had written the stuff (as opposed to having illustrated someone else’s writing), I made a point of showing it to her. Her reaction and judgment were very valued by me. July 2002

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“I have the same kind of relationship with my sons. They will show me their work and I will show them mine, just for the reaction. That doesn’t mean our reactions or suggestions are things that have to be taken up. It’s just having an opportunity to see another option or another side to what you are doing that you hadn’t seen before. Muriel has looked at the stuff and she checks it over, and I appreciate her value and judgment, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that if she makes a suggestion that I’m going to slavishly follow it.” As can happen in the comics industry, one rides a wave until one can plant one’s feet to look around and gain perspective on what one really wants to accomplish. The ones without the greatest business savy are usually sucked down by the undertow, but a few have a feel for the board. “I would figure it a matter of luck,” says Joe with a straight face when quizzed about his business acumen. He does cite the sheer force of his parents’ will to move across the world with two kids as an inspiration, but also says, “I’m not a gambler. I don’t play cards and I’ve never shot craps. In fact, we’ve gone to Las Vegas a couple of times and I’d walk in not even knowing what the hell was going on, but I do gamble in business. I try to make an evaluation of what the worst downside would be, and what the opportunities might be if I pursued it. On that basis, I make the decision. Beyond that, it is purely a matter of luck. I wouldn’t pretend to make any comparison with Will Eisner. He is absolutely exceptional.” “My husband and Will Eisner are the two best cartoonist businessmen I’ve ever met,” says Muriel. “I think it’s innate. He never studied accounting, marketing or advertising like I have, but he’s sharp as a tack when it comes to that.” Before Joe becomes an editor at DC Comics in 1967, his dream of starting his own art school is prevalent in his mind. John Costanza, a letterer in the comic book industry—a man who learned his craft from Joe—also lives in Dover and comes over to the house. “Joe would correct and critique his work,” recalls Muriel. “There are so many people that wanted to learn how.” With Joe a natural at passing on his techniques to others, the Kuberts have always had the idea for a school in back of their minds. The first notion it could become a reality was “when we saw the piece of property,” says Muriel. “We figured that would be perfect. My youngest, Andy, was finishing off high school at that time, so I had the time to devote to it.” The property falls into their laps, forcing them to make a move. Daughter Lisa, whose friend’s family had owned the property, introduces Muriel and Joe to the site. “It was right in Dover. Our daughter knew about our dream. We went there and we knew that was where it could be. We worked out a very good deal for seven acres of property with a beautiful mansion with a pool in the back. On the property also was a carriage house with a big garage underneath and two apartments over it. “The next step was finding out how you run a school. We never ran a school, never wrote a curriculum, and we realized we had to be approved by the New Jersey Department of Education. We have wonderful guy down there at the Department of Education who we met. He helped us, telling us how to write the curriculum, and how you do it. We bought the property in May or June of ’76 and we opened the school, that first class, that September with 22 students.”

Above: Muriel Kubert also works for the family concern, The Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art. Photo courtesy of Blake Bell and the Kubert family.

BLAKE BELL has killed a guy. He stands as tall as Jim Shooter, and has been told to “go away” by Steve Ditko. We tried to stop him writing this book, but can’t extradite him out of Canada. His first opus, “I Have To Live With This Guy!” will be published in late August by TwoMorrows. By then, it will be too late to stop him. 41

CBA Interview

Adam’s Amazing Adventures Elder son Kubert from Heavy Metal to Ultimate X-Men Conducted by Jon B. Cooke Transcribed by Jon B. Knutson As mentioned in the intro to younger brother Andy’s interview (to follow), CBA ain’t that much up on the current comics scene, but after viewing Adam’s original pencils for his Ultimate X-Men covers, we’re simply in love with the guy’s work. Of the two Kubert sons working in comics, Adam is the coolly suave one, as exceedingly courteous and well-mannered as his bro, if a bit more urbane. It’s simply hard not to like these guys and easy to share a little of father Joe’s pride in having two such nice gentlemen in this biz. This interview was conducted by phone a few weeks after the preceding roundtable (to detail the artist’s background a bit more) and was copy edited by Adam.

Above From left, grandpa Joe Kubert, grandson Max and son Adam (father of Max) at a recent comic book convention. Courtesy of the Kuberts.

Comic Book Artist: Were you into comics as a kid? Adam Kubert: Yeah, I definitely was! They were all over our house. Although I was only into DC, for obvious reasons. CBA: Because those were the only ones available? Adam: I never went out to the store to buy them, but they were always around. Frankly, I didn’t even know Marvel existed! CBA: Did your father receive a big package, or would he pick up all the titles when he would go into New York to drop off a job? Adam: He would bring them in from New York. CBA: You started lettering for your father at quite a young age? Adam: Yeah, he got me going on lettering when I was about 11 or so. I did that rather than the paper route or any other job a kid could have. CBA: What would be the routine? Did you start work when you came home from school? Adam: Yeah, I’d do it after school. My dad started me out to see whether or not I had the patience for it. He had me line up two pages, front and back, from top to bottom, without using an Ames Lettering Guide, which is what the guys used to use. I would measure it out, a 10” x 15” piece of paper, on both sides, space-line-spaceline, and he would do the alphabet, and I would just do the alphabet

over and over and over. Once in a while, I would practice balloons, setting up a balloon, figuring out sound effects, and things like that. He was putting me through the wringer to test me, to see if I had patience for it. CBA: So you passed the test? Adam: I passed the test! [laughter] Yes, I started lettering the “Sgt. Rock Battle Albums,” which Sam Glanzman or Russ Heath would draw. CBA: This would be 1970 when you were starting? During the tenure your dad was an editor-artist. So he would obviously come home with a Glanzman spread, you’d work on it after school, and take your time. Did you get paid? Adam: Oh, absolutely! If I can remember correctly, I think I was making two-and-a-half, three dollars a page? Something like that, starting out, yeah. I loved it! It would take me half-an-hour a page, so I was making six bucks an hour! It was great! CBA: Did you spend the money accordingly, or did you save it? Adam: I saved it, and bought minibikes and motorcycles. CBA: Cool! [laughs] That’s nice. Did you graduate into doing logos? Adam: I did titles and things like that. CBA: How long did you do that for? Adam: I guess I did it until around ’94. I did it for a long time. CBA: 24 years! That’s a full career! Adam: The last lettering job I was doing was for Heavy Metal magazine, which I’d lettered, because all their stories are transcribed from a foreign language into English, and had to be relettered. I started working for Heavy Metal right after I got out of my dad’s school in ’84, and I continued for about 10 years. CBA: You were on staff? You were in the masthead. Adam: I was the regular letterer, the only one who did the lettering for them, but I was freelance. CBA: Do you think coming up that route, through a real production job, gave you a very steady hand and ended up being an asset in the end? Adam: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I got to know the editors, I’d bring my work up to them, and it was a lot easier to get your foot in the door when the door’s already open, you know? Absolutely. CBA: When did you start pursuing a career in art? Adam: First, after I got out of high school, I went to the Rochester Institute of Technology, and got a bachelor of arts degree in medical illustration. CBA: Even though your father had already started the school? Adam: Yes. I had taken a commercial art course in high school, where I had a great commercial art teacher. He helped me get my portfolio together to get into college. I was accepted for medical illustration in Rochester, and I liked science and art a lot, so I put the two together, and that’s what I came up with. I also wanted to stretch my wings a little bit. I was looking for something where I could set my own path. At that point, I knew what my dad was in the business, and I wanted to forge my own way. But all through college, I was constantly drawing things out of my head, doing concert posters and always helping out for parties and things like that. I just realized, “Why fight it? It’s something I really like and I really want to do,” and I got my jollies out at college, now I’m ready to buckle down. That’s when I decided I’d go through my dad’s school. CBA: So you basically started again? Adam: I started again, right. CBA: Was there any advantage to having the Kubert name by COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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going to the school? Adam: Though they obviously did know, I still didn’t want anybody to know who I was. I wanted to fit in, I didn’t want to stick out. My dad didn’t treat us any differently. Maybe I made it a big deal in my own head, you know? After that, it was no big deal. There was no such thing as getting away with cutting classes for me. CBA: So you didn’t take any flack, necessarily, just ribbing? Adam: Oh, they busted my ass, but I busted theirs right back… [laughter] CBA: Of all the comic book artists, your father has had an especially good career, and he’s obviously parlayed that into creating a viable, long-lasting educational institution. He’s very savvy business-wise, comparative to other comic book artists who are not necessarily very well off by the time they’re 65 years old. They work for a page rate, day in and day out. As Ernie Colón says, “You’ve got to love it to do it, to be in it, because it’s probably just not going to pay off in the end.” Did you look at the life of a comic book artist and think maybe you could end up that way? Adam: No. [laughs] Maybe if I did, I wouldn’t have gone this route! I had one guy to look up to and I don’t ever regret my decision… I mean, my dad grew up without money, he was always watching money, but I never felt like we didn’t have money to put food on the table, I never felt that way growing up. When I decided to get into this, I didn’t really pay attention to how much money I was going to make; it just wasn’t something I thought about! CBA: As you have a family of your own now, do you see it more clearly? For instance, your father created Tor, and he’s always held on to the ownership of that character, and 50 years later, it’s back in print. Does his foresight weigh on your mind at all? Adam: At this point in my career, no, I don’t really have anything under my belt as far as a creator-owned property, but fortunately, I’ve been under contract with Marvel for nine years now, and they’ve treated me very, very good. The time will come where I’ll get that edge, and I do have things in mind what I want to do, so it’s just a matter of having the time and place to do it. CBA: Is it a grueling schedule you have? Adam: Pretty much. I usually start at seven in the morning, and I stop at six at night, six days a week. CBA: How many pages, generally speaking, can you do in a day? Adam: Generally, a page a day, sometimes not even that. I have other things that happen during the day, and family obligations can take you away a little bit. CBA: When did you go into your dad’s school? Adam: In 1981. CBA: So that was the fifth or sixth graduating class? Adam: I guess so, yeah. CBA: Did you have any classmates who went on into the business? Adam: There’s Eric Shanower, he’s doing pretty well. Ron Wagner, who’s been in and out of the business. CBA: Did you get along with anyone particularly? July 2002

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Adam: I still talk to Ron once in a while, I talk to Lee Weeks almost all the time, and I’m sure I’m probably forgetting somebody. CBA: You can always fill in the blank! [laughs] “And everybody I’ve ever met in my life.” So, you were obviously lettering, and you’re really going to have to forgive me, because I’m really not as up on contemporary comic books as I should be and people are always confusing you with your brother. Adam: That’s okay! CBA: [Laughs] So if you can tell me precisely when you went into the business, what were you doing, besides lettering? Adam: I guess my first job out of the gate was over at DC working on Warlord with the editor, Ross Andru. The first book I did was

Above: Ultimate X-Men cover art by Adam Kubert. This special series of covers are lavishly reproduced directly from the artist’s pencils, sans inks. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Warlord #95, I think. I penciled it, and it was one of the hardest jobs I ever had to do! [laughs] It was so difficult! Not only was it difficult to layout, to draw, to just do it, but Ross Andru happened to rewrite almost the whole typewritten script (which, I believe was written by Michael Fleisher)—which usually wouldn’t have been so bad—but Ross wrote it right on the typed pages with this thick Flair marker that I couldn’t read! [laughter] I’m trying to decipher what the hell he wrote, and I showed it to my dad, and he said, “I would just throw that damn thing right back!” This is my first job, so I’m going to swallow it, you know? So that was my first experience out of the gate. [laughter]

CBA: I’ve seen your father’s editing, and it could be heavy! [laughter] Adam: He was heavy, but at least you could read it! CBA: Ross Andru’s a legend in the business, but not much is known about him. What kind of guy was he? Did you deal with him very much? Adam: I dealt with him but I don’t really remember. It wasn’t a bad experience. I don’t think I learned anything from him, if that’s what you mean. I mean, he didn’t take me down and say, “Do this,” or “Don’t do this.” CBA: Was he a shy guy? Adam: You know, I guess maybe I was shy, maybe I wasn’t that forthcoming. I think I was intimidated, probably. I remember he did say to me one time, “Don’t do up-shots of a woman’s face, because that tends to make her look ugly.” Since then, that’s what I’ve tried to do, is up-shots! I mean, tell me not to do something, that’s when I’ll do it. [laughter] CBA: You’re a rebel. Did you get into a regular gig, or was it catch as catch can? Adam: I hadn’t started on a regular monthly until I came to Marvel. I was hopping from mini-series to mini-series, project to project, up until 1992 or ’93, when my first monthly assignment was Spirits of Vengeance, featuring Ghost Rider and Blaze, under editor Bobbie Chase. CBA: When you started out, did you have a style that was similar to your father’s? Adam: I think Andy’s style was a little closer to my dad’s. I know mine probably resembled it, but Andy’s more resembled my father’s work. CBA: Besides your father, who were your influences? Adam: I really liked a lot of the European artists. I liked Moebius, I liked Serpieri, Manara, those kind of guys. I was exposed to them through working on Heavy Metal magazine. I got all that stuff. CBA: Did you ease into it, or was it a struggle to produce on a regular basis? Adam: I was always slow. Early on, I would try to pencil and ink my own work, and I didn’t have that much material coming out because of that. Thank God, I had my Heavy Metal lettering, that way I was able to actually make a living, you know? As I said, I really didn’t worry about the money so much early on. At that point, my wife worked, so I didn’t have to worry about it. CBA: When did you get married? Adam: I got married in 1986, two years after I got out of my dad’s school. CBA: And you have three children? Adam: Yes, the oldest is 13. CBA: I first really noticed you two with the Doc Savage miniseries. Was that kind of a breakout for you guys? Adam: I don’t know! I don’t feel I’d gotten notice until I got onto a title that was selling really, really well. I don’t even know what the sales figures were on Doc Savage, or those other books I worked on. I guess I wasn’t paying attention until I was making royalties, you know? [laughter] Depending on what sales were, that’s what you made! CBA: Were you particularly close to Andy growing up? Adam: I think so, yeah. CBA: When you became professionals, were you commiserating? Talking to each other frequently? Adam: Yeah, we got along really well professionally and personally, up to this day. CBA: Do you see working together as a team, did it work out? Adam: Yeah, it was a blast! On Doc Savage, we actually split the chores: Where one issue I would pencil, the next issue he would pencil, and we’d alternate on inks. CBA: So you really contributed to this monstrous confusion! [laughs] Adam: Oh, yes, totally! But I don’t care. [laughter] CBA: I imagine your father can be quite honest in his criticisms. Did you bring your work to him? Adam: All the time, and I still do. He’s great when it comes to problem-solving. “Dad, I can’t figure this out, there’s something wrong, but I just don’t know what it is.” He’ll just whip out tracing COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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paper and it just opens my eyes, every time! CBA: Your father really hasn’t had a peak as an artist. Most other artists reach a height, maybe in their thirties or forties, but you father has always been growing and evolving in a better draftsman and storyteller. The only thing I’ve ever seen him do that was not somehow better than the previous job was this recent Batman book he did with Stan Lee. You can almost feel his heart wasn’t into it. But everything else, especially Abraham Stone…. Adam: Well, I think that Batman thing was probably a little weak because he’s doing so much. He had to get the thing done, and he got it done! If he has a deadline, he’ll hit that deadline, and I know that thing he went quickly through because he had to get it done! If I had to crank through as much work as he does, my stuff would look like crap. He does a lot of work. CBA: Despite that one book, he keeps growing as an artist. Do you admire his ability to stay challenged? Adam: I admire him for staying alive for so long! [laughter] CBA: He does have a healthy resumé. He’s almost so atypical, you know what I mean? He’s smart, tough, and in a business where people aren’t so smart, are not so tough, and get railroaded over… I’m almost afraid to work for him, but I find him endlessly fascinating. Adam: He’s an anomaly, I think. You look at his peers—and I wish the best for everyone—but I wish they were doing half as good as him right now. He’s doing great! He’s constantly pushing himself. I think a lot of it has to do with health, he’s in great shape, his mind is clear… he keeps focused. He loves what he’s doing, and that’s the focus, and it shows. And the talent part doesn’t hurt, you know? CBA: [laughs] A situation arose when the artist started to become star in the late ’80s and early ’90s especially. You guys seem to have really lucked out into a situation of what transpired during those years… perhaps you and your brother were two of the main beneficiaries of Image! Adam: Yeah! Thank God for Image, you know? [laughter] That opened up a lot of doors over at Marvel. A lot of books became available, and they needed people to fill them! CBA: Were you able to get Spirits of Vengeance because those guys left for Image? Adam: That was a new book. Those guys were gone, and I think I went to Wolverine after Spirits of Vengeance, and at that point, Silvestri and Jim Lee weren’t there, so… you know. Andy really filled Jim Lee’s shoes, that was really tough for him! It was a great opportunity for us! CBA: Did it take a while for you to gain fan acceptance, or was it immediate? Adam: I didn’t pay attention to it, I just did what I wanted to do, or what I felt I wanted to do. CBA: Did you go to conventions? Adam: A little, yeah. I don’t go a lot, maybe two a year. I find it takes a big bite out of my schedule. You go, people want your signature and things like that, but I never felt like I was a star or anything. CBA: Did your page rates increase over time? Adam: Over time, with cost of living. [laughter] What increased was the royalties. When I hopped on Wolverine, I was making a decent buck! CBA: When would the royalties kick in? Adam: I’m not sure, but when I got on the book, it was selling 400,000… 500,000… CBA: Wow, the good old days. Adam: Yeah, the good old days. CBA: Who was writing the book, Larry Hama? July 2002

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Adam: Yeah, Larry Hama was writing it. CBA: Did you deal with him directly? Adam: I talked to Larry fairly infrequently. I’d get the plot and draw it. CBA: So you worked “Marvel-style”? Did you add elements to it? Adam: Storytelling, yes. I love working the Marvel style, because it gives the artist a lot of freedom to do what he wants, and there’s a lot open to interpretation, which is what I enjoy. Yeah, a lot of it’s me. CBA: Gil Kane would frequently complain about the Marvel style, saying the artist, as a matter of fact, was doing half the work of the writer. Adam: Yeah, I agree with that, but I like that anyway. CBA: You see that as a virtue. Adam: Yeah. I prefer to work this way, rather than full-script, because it’s more fun! I can do what I want. CBA: You were a fan going into the business; did you have characters you wanted to do? Adam: I really wasn’t a fan going into the business. There’s Marvel fans that

Inset left: Adam poses for a reference shot, as well as a standalone pic of his beloved, which were combined for use in depicting Logan, a.k.a. Wolverine, in pencil on the Ultimate X-Men cover seen below. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Left: One wild and wacky triple-page (!) spread by Adam Kubert depicting a knockdown, drag ’em out fight between mortal enemies Wolverine and Sabretooth. From Wolverine #90. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©’02 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Above: Adam Kubert in a photo by Chris Knowles. Below and next page: We just couldn’t resist featuring these Adam Kubert penciled covers for his lauded Ultimate X-Men, a series written by Mark Millar. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

know a gazillion times more things about the Marvel Universe than I do! Are there characters I particularly want to draw? You know, I guess I would love to draw Superman at some point. Marvel characters, I’d love to take a crack at Spider-Man. I really haven’t done much of him. I guess one of my favorite characters that I drew was The Hulk, I really enjoyed that series. So, really, depending on whatever character I’m on, I’m genuinely into at that moment. CBA: Did you ever have an interest to work in genres outside of super-heroes? Adam: I have. I did Jonny Quest, I did Jezebel Jade, which is pretty straight-forward stuff. I don’t have any desire to do war comics, if that’s where you’re going! [laughter] For some reason, I just don’t like that genre. [laughs] CBA: Is the shadow too big? Adam: No, it’s not that. Well, yes, the shadow’s huge, but that’s not what’s holding me back. It’s just the subject matter that I don’t particularly care for. You know, all the tanks, all the Army guys… I’ve done it, drawn it within my stories, but it’s not something that really perks my interest. CBA: How do you see the industry right now? Is it in good shape, or better shape? Adam: Well, I think it’s in better shape than it was, but it’s got a long way to go. It’s a little difficult to see, because I kind of have my nose to the grindstone here. I see sales on my book are pretty healthy, but the Marvel engine is churning right now. CBA: With the change of regime, is there a different feeling over there? Adam: Oh, absolutely.

CBA: Is it a more positive feeling? Adam: Yes, definitely. It’s more story-driven than it was before, and I’ve always felt the story has to be good, and it has to be legible and readable for a reader to come back, and I think that’s the main focus right now in the business overall. CBA: Except for Don Rico, back in the ’40s, I think this is the first time an artist has ever been editor-in-chief at Marvel. Is it to the company’s advantage, as far as you can tell right now? Adam: I think so, yes. I mean, I think you can see that art is very, very important, but it’s not just the art, it’s in combination with the writing. Joe Quesada is an excellent artist in his own right, and it’s nice when you can show him stuff, or go over a sketch, and he can give you a suggestion that really makes a lot of sense. I mean, here he is, he’s doing all of Andy’s covers right now on Origin, I mean, that’s a huge project, and they’re great covers. CBA: In seeing your father as an example, do you sock it away? Are you looking for tomorrow, are you keeping your eye on the horizon? Obviously, you’ve got to work on page after page after page, you’ve got your nose to the grindstone, just like you said. Adam: The future? I see eventually doing some kind of creatorowned project. I’m teaching right now, I like doing that. CBA: Now, your father’s obviously going to live forever. [laughter] But, do you see yourself carrying on his legacy, perhaps, with the Institution? Adam: That’s possible. I’m sure that’s in the back of my mind, and it’s in the back of my dad’s mind. If it works out that way, great. There’s no pressure there. CBA: Your father is one of those rarities in the business, in that he

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basically doesn’t sell his own art, right? Adam: Right. CBA: Did you learn from that? Adam: He has passed that attitude down to me. I generally hold on to my stuff. Sometimes when I go to conventions, I’ll bring a handful of stuff with me, just so I can go home with some money in my pocket. It sells okay. What I usually do is I put a high price on it, and if it sells, good, if it doesn’t, I don’t really care. CBA: Why hold on to your art? Adam: Because it means something to me. I don’t want to give the stuff away. I don’t have to sell it, and it’s a personal thing. I like to keep it. I like to look back on it, and I like to look at it. CBA: Do you enjoy the characters you work on? Adam: Right now, yeah. CBA: What are you working on right now? Adam: Ultimate X-Men, written by Mark Millar. The stories are great, probably the best-crafted stories I’ve ever worked on. CBA: What’s the premise of the Ultimate series? Adam: Well, in a nutshell, we’ve discarded 30 years of continuity with The X-Men and we’re starting fresh. The characters are generally younger, hipper, and more contemporary. Generally, they’re selfcontained stories. They’re written in six-issue story arcs so they can be compiled as a trade paperback later on. CBA: Has a lot of your stuff been collected into trade paperbacks? Adam: A few things. I know all this Ultimate X-Men stuff will be, and I’m up to #16 now. CBA: Do you see that having any kind of effect on your annual

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income yet? Adam: The trade paperbacks? Not really, no. CBA: How far do you see the creator-owned thing down the road? Adam: It depends what my schedule will be. I’m on a monthly right now, I don’t know when I’ll be getting off it. I don’t know what’s going to happen after it. I’ll probably sit down with Joe Quesada at some point and figure out what’s next for me. CBA: Do you think it’s interesting that you’re not necessarily a comic fan coming into it, that you’ve had a pragmatic view, certainly from the inside, watching your father work day in and day out, night after night, of doing it? Adam: Well, I think one of the advantages of not being a comic book fan is I don’t have any preconceived notions of these characters. I think that’s one of the reasons I’ve done as well as I have with the characters, because I’m not influenced by what’s been done before. When I was drawing Wolverine, the first thing I read was Barry Windsor-Smith’s Weapon X. It’s genuinely been, I think, my own take on the characters I do. CBA: Are you proud of your brother? Adam: Am I proud of Andy? [laughter] I think he’s doing great in the business, yeah, I’m proud of him. Sure! I’m very proud of him. I’m proud of my dad. CBA: Are you going to work with your father and your brother again? Adam: If it comes up, yeah. I think we’re doing a cover together for you.

Above: Adam Kubert in a yet another photo by Chris Knowles.

CBA Interview

The Origin of Andy Kubert the younger tell us how he keeps the Wolverine at bay Conducted by Jon B. Cooke Transcribed by Jon B. Knutson

Below: Andy Kubert during the roundtable interview session. Photo by Chris Knowles.

Look, if you readers are at all familiar with this magazine, you know that Ye Ed is fanatically into the Old Stuff. Sure, he picks up an occasional Mike Mignola or Art Adams title here and there but you’ll usually find him trolling through the back-issue bins, not the new comics rack. So our knowledge of the Sons Kubert are embarrassingly scant. But when a box of Kubert Xeroxes arrived from the official family archivist Pete Carlsson, we instantly became fans of both Adam and Andy for life. These guys can draw the hell out of anything! Currently, Adam (the kinda frumpy, awfully friendly, and self-deprecating son) is a super-star artist working on the very high profile mini-series Origin, featuring the much-anticipated beginnings of Wolverine. To augment the prior roundtable (which was brief on details of the sons’ lives), we conducted a phone interview later in the early Spring. Andy copy-edited the final transcript.

Opposite page: Currently, Andy Kubert is getting notice for drawing the much anticipated story behind X-Man Wolverine’s beginnings (which startlingly commence in the 19th century) in the Joe Quesada-scripted mini-series Origin. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Comic Book Artist: When did you start contemplating having a career in art yourself? Andy Kubert: Oh, probably towards the end of my first year going through my dad’s school. [laughter] CBA: Why did you attend the school if you weren’t really interested? Andy: He wanted me to go through the school, because I was going to work in the administration offices, and so not having a real drawing background (though I had taken some graphic arts courses previously), my father said, “Why don’t you go through the school for a year, and then you’ll really get to know it, and have a better understanding when you work in administration?” That was the idea. I would then work with him and my mom in the office. CBA: Did you suddenly get off on it? Andy: The atmosphere here, with all the kids that were really into comics, movies and all that kind of thing, I just got bit by the bug, basically. I really got into it. CBA: Prior to that, would you call yourself a comics fan at all? Andy: No, not at all. I used to read them, but I never went out and bought them or anything like that. CBA: Did you become one afterwards? Andy: A fan? No, I collected what I liked in terms of artwork and stories. But not as far as I needed every issue of X-Men, nothing like that. CBA: So kind of. [laughs] Andy: Yeah… kind of. CBA: What artists were you particularly into? Andy: I loved Bernie Wrightson’s stuff going through school. I

collected Hal Foster and Alex Raymond’s work. Al Williamson… and I borrowed my dad’s books. CBA: Joe must have a hell of a library. Andy: He has some nice stuff, yeah. CBA: Obviously, you had a lot of professionals working there in a teaching capacity, but did you also have a lot of people of note within the field dropping by at the school? Andy: I remember Sergio Aragonés came out. CBA: Compared to your brother, what class were you in? Were you a couple of years after him? Andy: No, we were in the same class for three years. In the same room! [laughter] CBA: Are you particularly close to your brother? Can you stand each other for long periods of time, so to speak? I have three brothers, and I know what it can be like. Andy: [laughs] You know, I never really thought of it that way! We get along. I mean, of course, we have our times where we want to kill each other, but we do get along. CBA: Were you getting into drawing super-hero stuff or was it really anything? Andy: Not really super-heroes, it was more or less Prince Valianttype things, castles, knights… fantasy, science-fiction. The guys I was really into. I loved what Al Williamson was doing on the Star Wars newspaper strip, and I collected those Amazing Heroes that had reprints in it… I still have them. That’s basically what I got into. CBA: What did you want to do when you got out of school? Andy: I wanted to get into comics. CBA: Did you want to specifically get into DC or Marvel? Andy: Anybody who would hire me. [laughter] It didn’t matter to me, I didn’t care. CBA: Do you have an interest in writing yourself? Andy: Yes, I do think about that a lot. I was thinking about it today! That’s a thing I’d like to get into. It takes a lot of time. I’ve never done it before, and it takes a lot of time just to really get your feet wet in it. Eventually, it’s something I would like to get into. CBA: Except for Sojourn, your father really never self-published, right? He always had other people publish his work. Andy: Yeah. CBA: That’s interesting, he’d go in there and probably saved a lot of money not going that way! Andy: You’re probably right! [laughter] CBA: What was your first professional assignment? Andy: My first professional work? Oh, God… CBA: You graduated in 1984? Andy: Yeah, ’84. I did some pin-ups or back-ups in Savage Sword of Conan. That was for Larry Hama. If you count this, I did some back-ups in Sgt. Rock, through my dad, and that was a school thing. A lot of the kids, when they get to their third year, one of the programs my dad had when he was editing Sgt. Rock was, you could work on the back-up war stories there, and I was able to do that. CBA: Did he edit Sgt. Rock and G.I. Combat until the end? Andy: No, Murray Boltinoff was editor on both when I was published there. CBA: Was there any pleasure in doing the war material? Andy: I loved it. I would still love to do it! You know, we talked about this Sgt. Rock hardcover thing? Oh, God, I would so love to do something like that! That would be so much fun! I had blast doing those back-ups! CBA: Adam said that he really wasn’t interested in war, because of COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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Above: Was Andy disappointed by John Severin’s overwhelming ink job which obliterated the Kubert son’s pencil job in Semper Fi #5, as seen above? “Are you kidding? It was an honor to work with a legend like John Severin! Who cares what my pencils looked like.” Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.

all the ordinance and all the man-made material. Andy: The technical stuff? I love getting into that. I love reading the history books on that stuff. I get a kick out of it. CBA: Do you have a Sgt. Rock story inside you that some day you’d like to get out? Andy: I never thought about it that way! [laughter] Maybe, I’m sure there’s one in there somewhere! CBA: Did you start gravitating towards DC or Marvel at any particular time, or were you just freelancing, going back and forth? Andy: Just freelancing, going back and forth, basically. Whoever would give me a job! CBA: But you did a lot of work for DC to start, right? Andy: Yes. CBA: I remember you and your brother on Doc Savage. Was that the first kind of breakthrough project for you two? Andy: Yeah, I think so. Mike Carlin called up Adam with that, and then Adam had turned it down for some reason, like he didn’t think he could handle the

deadlines or something like that, and Adam called me and told me that he was offered a mini-series. I said, “Well, if you can’t do it alone, why don’t we do it together?” So Adam called Mike back, and Mike said, “Fine, great!” So we both got on that gig. CBA: Your brother told me you guys traded off penciling and inking chores? Andy: We’d do anything to get it done! [laughs] It was pretty tight on the deadlines, too. CBA: Did you pull all-nighters on that? Andy: Oh, God, that was a long time ago! [laughter] I remember putting a lot of hours in on that one! CBA: Are you able to maintain, to this day, a kind of a nine-to-five existence? Andy: That’s the way I have to do it, I can’t do it any other way. To keep focused, to keep sharp. I can’t work tired, so I’m usually starting around eight in the morning, and I’m here until around 5:00, 5:30. If I have to work at night, I’ll pack up my stuff, eat dinner, play with the kids a little bit, and put maybe an hour or two in at night, if I have a tight deadline. CBA: But you really try to keep a separation between work and home? Andy: Yes, I do. CBA: Did you learn that from your father, or did your father have that same kind of point of view? Andy: My dad worked at home, and he was always home and always had time for the kids. CBA: So he would put the work away? Andy: Yes. CBA: Did you seek out professionals you particularly admired back then to ask advice? Andy: Not really. I never really did. CBA: Were you shy? Andy: No, I just had my dad there all the time! CBA: He’s professional enough, eh? Andy: He’s maybe all I needed. I don’t know. [laughter] CBA: Did you take any flack for having the Kubert name? Andy: Some people. I heard through the grapevine that some people said that, especially starting out, I had an easier time getting in there, getting into the business, because of my dad. And that’s fine, I’ll take it any way I can get it! [laughs] CBA: Do you think that’s true? Andy: Yeah, I do. I think… yeah, once they hear a Kubert’s coming in? Yeah, I think so. CBA: That gave you entrée. I would also imagine there was some pressure on you because of that, to perform… to come into your own, so to speak. Andy: You mean to keep up with my dad? CBA: In a way. Keep up with the name, anyway. Andy: My dad was so far out there that I couldn’t even touch him, I didn’t really think about it, that he was just so high up that… not many people are up at that level, so I didn’t really worry about it that much! [laughs] CBA: In the ’80s, did you have any regular gig? When Doc Savage became a regular series, did you work on that? Andy: I did the covers. CBA: Did you work on a regular series before your breakout? Andy: X-Men was my first regular book. CBA: And you took over from who? Andy: Jim Lee. CBA: Really? Andy: Yeah, when he left to form Image. CBA: So there’s some pressure for you! Andy: Yeah, not too much, huh? [laughter] CBA: So, how do you view the great exodus to Image? Andy: It was the best thing that ever happened to me! [laughs] CBA: And it was, wasn’t it? Andy: It really was, yeah. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

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CBA: You really established your individual identity, didn’t you? Andy: I guess, I found a niche for myself. Experimenting with all kinds of ways of doing things, styles and this and that. CBA: I’ve seen some of your work that did seem to have some elements of the Image approach. Andy: Well, I loved Jim Lee’s work. He influenced me a lot. I used to go out and buy his stuff when he was on Punisher War Journal, just because I really enjoyed it. I was just totally influenced by the guy. It wasn’t really a conscious thing, I guess it was just a subconscious thing, because I enjoyed his work. CBA: So you didn’t necessarily have any art direction coming from Marvel? Andy: No, they never told me how to draw. Never. CBA: They just dug what you were doing, and kept going. Andy: Yeah. CBA: Who was editor of the book at that time? Andy: That was Bob Harras. CBA: Was Chris Claremont writing it at the time? Andy: Right when I was coming onto it, he was writing Uncanny, and I think I did one or two issues of that, and then Fabian Nicieza was writing it when I got on to X-Men. CBA: And you stuck with it for a period of time? Andy: Yeah, he was on X-Men for a long time, and then it was Scott Lobdell, and then Mark Waid. CBA: Did you hit it off particularly with any of your writers? Were you just doing the art, or were you contributing to the plot? Andy: No, it was just mainly the art. The plots and the stories were totally between the writers and editors. I had nothing to do with it. I would just receive a plot and just draw it up. CBA: Oh, so you wouldn’t really necessarily add to it, per se? Andy: I’d get a paragraph per page, and then would just do all the storytelling from there. But as far as the plot elements, what was going on in that particular storyline, that was all the writers and editors. I didn’t have anything to do with that. CBA: Were you particularly identified with Wolverine as a character, or was it the whole group? Andy: Not particularly, it was mostly X-Men as a whole. CBA: When you were working on it, were you told there was any sales fluctuations or anything like that? For instance, were you getting royalties from immediately getting on the book? Andy: Yeah, I was getting royalties. Immediately when I got on it until the last issue I got off it. CBA: So, did you lobby for the book? How did you get the assignment? Andy: Bob called me up and asked me if I wanted to do it! CBA: You’d think there’d be artists lining up to get that! Andy: Bob called me up, and said, “Jim is thinking about leaving the book.” I don’t think at that time he gave me a reason why or anything, just “Jim’s thinking about leaving, would you be interested in taking it over?” and I said, “Yeah.” At that time, I had done fill-ins on Uncanny, maybe X-Factor or something like that. CBA: How long did you stay with the book? Andy: Six years. CBA: Why did you leave? Andy: Six years was enough! You can only stay so much on a particular title, and it was time to go, time to pack it in. CBA: Where did you go? Andy: I went to Ka-Zar. I loved my dad’s Tarzan stuff, and this was as close as I could get to it in the Marvel universe! With dinosaurs and everything, it was great! CBA: So that was obviously a real change of pace, right? Andy: Right, I wanted something that was a different thing. CBA: Given your druthers, right now at this point in life, what kind of books would you like to do? Andy: You know, I’m kind of doing it! [laughs] July 2002

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I really enjoy working on Origin, I really love the storyline, I love the elements, the early 1900s, and I just love the way it’s being produced. It’s a lot of fun to work on. It is a six-issue limited series. CBA: It’s coming out every couple of months? Andy: Oh… it should. [laughter] CBA: It’s coming out when it comes out! [laughter] Andy: It comes out. [laughs] I’m working on the last issue right now. CBA: Do you have a hard time with deadlines? Andy: No. Origin is a different process that I’ve never done before: They’re shooting it directly from pencils, and it’s getting colored right on pencils. So, I have to pencil it differently, and I had no idea how long it was going to take me to do when I first started doing it. It’s like penciling and inking, basically, and it’s just taking me a lot longer. But deadlines? I wouldn’t have been able to stay on X-Men for six years if I couldn’t make a deadline. CBA: Has Origin #1 gone through numerous

Inset center, previous page and this page: Andy designed these Marvel super-hero images for the Marvel Islands of Adventure theme park at Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. While they were repro’d onto 15-foot tall pylons, the project was inexplicably scrapped. These two images were inked by Jesse Delperdang. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 53

Above: The Rhino gets in Ka-Zar’s face in this Andy Kubertpenciled and Jesse Delperdanginked cover of the jungle hero’s sixth issue. Yep, this was the cover’s original orientation. Courtesy of the Kuberts. ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 54

printings? Andy: Marvel has a “no reprint” policy. CBA: No reprint policy? Andy: They don’t reprint. The first issue sold out in a couple of hours. But they put it out in a thing called Marvel Must-Haves, and that’s the only way they reprinted it. They’re going to put the collection out in a hardcover. And then, I assume, a softcover, too. CBA: You’re the flip side of your dad, known as a Marvel artist. Andy: I guess, yeah. Once I got there, there was no reason for me to leave. Through all their bankruptcy, changes in people working there, they treated me great. CBA: When did you get married? Andy: When did I get married? Good question! [laughter] May 18, 1986. CBA: The same year as your brother? Andy: Yes. Within a month of each other. CBA: Dude! Change your name! Change companies! How can anybody hope to tell you two apart! [laughter] Well, it’s a good thing it wasn’t your father with two daughters going on at the same time! And you have how many kids? Andy: Two. CBA: Do you like the life you have now? Andy: Oh, I love it. CBA: Are you teaching at the school, too? Andy: Yep. I teach second-year narrative art. CBA: That’s storytelling? Andy: Yes, it is. CBA: Is it gratifying? Andy: I love doing it, yeah. I get a kick out of hanging out with the kids again, you know, kind of like me being back in school. It’s real gratifying to see them improve, a progression from the beginning of the year until… well, right now, which is almost the end of the year. It’s really nice to see, and it helps me out in my own work, something like standing there and explaining what you do, and blocking it out step by step by step, instead of doing it intuitively, really just helps me out in my own work. CBA: There is a childlike aspect to you—I didn’t mean childish, I mean childlike [laughter]—do you feel that in yourself, that you’ve got a youthful sense of life? There’s a lot of people who grow up really quick. Andy: Well, I try to stay young. [laughs] CBA: Do you work out like your dad? Andy: Yeah, I work out four or five times a week. An hour a night. I do a lot of cardio kick-boxing and weightlifting. CBA: So you do that after dinner? Andy: Before dinner. I can’t eat and then work out, or I’ll get dizzy! CBA: Are you able to take vacations? Andy: Yeah! CBA: Your father’s a novelty when it comes to professional comic book artists. Really, an awful lot of people of his generation are not in good condition. Your father’s obviously extremely healthy and financially he seems to be fine in that matter. He’s kept his eye on the prize, got another business going, owns all of his art, just seems to be doing a lot of things right. But a lot of people don’t play their cards right and it’s a tough field for them to really profit from the long run. Andy: My dad prepares for the future. What it comes down to is that he’s a very COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

July 2002

smart man, he knows how to run his life, basically, and knows how to prepare for later on, you know? CBA: Do you learn from that? Andy: Yeah. CBA: Your brother said that as he gets older, he’s thinking more about a creator-owned property. Is that something that’s on your mind? Andy: Eventually, yeah. Definitely. CBA: When do you think eventually comes true? Andy: I… don’t know! [laughter] I couldn’t possibly put a finger on it. I guess I really have to get bitten in the tail to get it going, you know? But right now, I’m just having fun doing what I’m doing. CBA: So you don’t see the overall situation in comics as a continuing spiral of downward sales? Andy: Well, I think it’s turning around. I don’t think it’s dropping anymore. At Marvel, they keep telling us it’s a sliding scale, going back up a bit! CBA: There was recent press that for the first time since the early 1990s, sales did not drop from the previous year, but remained the same. In one sense, you can be gratified looking at that, saying, “Oh, well, we’re not dropping,” but then you look at 1999’s numbers and you go, “Hmm! Well, is this a growth market or not?” You’re obviously sitting quite ensconced in one of the best positions in the industry right now, right? You’re working for Quesada’s Marvel, which definitely is getting a lot of attention, you’re working on one of the books that, besides the 9/11 stuff, you’re probably getting more press for the Origin book…. Andy: Yeah, I’ve never done radio interviews before, and I had my first one when I got on Origin. CBA: Is it gratifying? Andy: Oh, it feels great! [laughter] Yeah. CBA: I have the hard-hitting questions! Andy: I can’t expunge on that one too much. [laughter] Phenomenal! CBA: An awful lot of comic book artists say, “Someday I’m going to invest time in doing a creator-owned thing.” When does that day come? Andy: Some day I am, but right now, you know…. CBA: Is it because you’re so busy? Andy: Yeah, I just enjoy the projects I’m getting. It’s the stuff I really want to do. That’s why I keep putting it off! CBA: When you were doing X-Men, did you start noticing you were getting some attention from fans? Andy: I didn’t notice it until I went to a convention. When I got the July 2002

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 20

assignment, it was before all the Internet stuff. So you’ve got lines of people, and I was like, “Whoa! Look at this!” People that really check out what you’re doing, especially on X-Men, they live and breathe these characters, and they know everything about them. CBA: But you didn’t let it get to your head? Andy: No. [laughter] CBA: Both you and your brother are chips off the old block! You’re very well-mannered in an age of people not being very nice, and you seem to have taken success pretty well. Andy: Well, we were raised by Joe Kubert! [laughter]

Above: Just ’coz we like it, here’s the splash page (penciled by Andy Kubert and inked by Dan Green) to Captain America #27. Following spread: Andy’s pencils in Origin are repro’d directly to the final page. This gorgeous spread from #5, and the above, courtesy of the Kuberts, and ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc. 55

THE RETRO COMICS EXPERIENCE!

Edited by MICHAEL EURY, BACK ISSUE magazine celebrates comic books of the 1970s, 1980s, and today through recurring (and rotating) departments like “Pro2Pro” (dialogue between professionals), “BackStage Pass” (behind-the-scenes of comicsbased media), “Greatest Stories Never Told” (spotlighting unrealized comics series or stories), and more!

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Bronze Age Mystery Comics! Interviews with BERNIE WRIGHTSON, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, GERRY TALAOC, DC mystery writer LORE SHOBERG, MARK EVANIER and DAN SPIEGLE discuss Scooby-Doo, Charlton chiller anthologies, Black Orchid, Madame Xanadu art and commentary by TONY DeZUNIGA, MIKE KALUTA, VAL MAYERIK, DAVID MICHELINIE, MATT WAGNER, and a rare cover painting by WRIGHTSON!

“Gods!” Takes an in-depth look at WALTER SIMONSON’s Thor, the Thunder God in the Bronze Age, “Pro2Pro” interview with TOM DeFALCO and RON FRENZ, Hercules: Prince of Power, Moondragon, Three Ways to End the New Gods Saga, exclusive interview with fantasy writer MICHAEL MOORCOCK, art and commentary by GERRY CONWAY, JACK KIRBY, BOB LAYTON, and more, with a swingin’ Thor cover by SIMONSON!

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“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

“Licensed Comics”! Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Man from Atlantis, DC’s Edgar Rice Burroughs backups (John Carter, Pellucidar, Carson of Venus), Marvel’s Warlord of Mars, and an interview with CAROL SERLING, wife of ROD SERLING. With art and commentary from ANDERSON, BYRNE, CLAREMONT, DORMAN, DUURSEMA, KALUTA, MILLER, OSTRANDER, and more. Cover by BRIAN KOSCHACK.

“Avengers Assemble!” Writer ROGER STERN’S acclaimed 1980s Avengers run, West Coast Avengers, early Avengers toys, and histories of Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Wonder Man, with art and commentary from JOHN and SAL BUSCEMA, JOHN BYRNE, BRETT BREEDING, TOM DeFALCO, STEVE ENGLEHART, BOB HALL, AL MILGROM, TOM MORGAN, TOM PALMER, JOE SINNOTT, and more. PÉREZ cover!

JENETTE KAHN interviewed by ROBERT GREENBERGER, DC’s Dollar Comics and unrealized kids’ line (featuring an aborted Sugar and Spike revival), the Wonder Woman Foundation, and the early days of the Vertigo imprint. Exploring the talents of ROSS ANDRU, KAREN BERGER, STEVE BISSETTE, JIM ENGEL, GARTH ENNIS, NEIL GAIMAN, SHELLY MAYER, ALAN MOORE, GRANT MORRISON, and more!

“JLA in the Bronze Age”! The “Satellite Years” of the ‘70s and early ‘80s, with BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, PÉREZ, and WEIN, salute to DICK DILLIN, the Justice League “Detroit” team, with CONWAY, PATTON, McDONNELL, plus CONWAY and GEOFF JOHNS go “Pro2Pro” on writing the JLA, unofficial JLA/Avengers crossovers, and Marvel’s JLA, the Squadron Supreme. Cover by McDONNELL and BILL WRAY!

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“Toon Comics!” History of Space Ghost in comics, Comico’s Jonny Quest and Star Blazers, Marvel’s Hanna-Barbera line and Dennis the Menace, behind the scenes at Marvel Productions, Ltd., and a look at the unpublished Plastic Man comic strip. Art/comments by EVANIER, FOGLIO, HEMPEL and WHEATLEY, MARRS, RUDE, TOTH, WILDEY, and more. All-new painted Space Ghost cover by STEVE RUDE!

“Halloween Heroes and Villains”! JEPH LOEB and TIM SALE’s chiller Batman: The Long Halloween, the Scarecrow (both the DC and Marvel versions), Solomon Grundy, Man-Wolf, Lord Pumpkin, Rutland, Vermont’s Halloween parades, and… the Korvac Saga’s Dead Avengers! With commentary from and/or art by CONWAY, GIL KANE, LOPRESTI, MOENCH, PÉREZ, DAVE WENZEL, and more. Cover by TIM SALE!

“Tabloids and Treasuries,” spotlighting every all-new tabloid from the 1970s. Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man, The Bible, Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles, The Wizard of Oz, even the PAUL DINI/ALEX ROSS World’s Greatest Super-Heroes editions! Commentary and art by ADAMS, GARCIA-LOPEZ, GRELL, KIRBY, KUBERT, MAYER, ROMITA SR., TOTH, and more. Wraparound cover by ALEX ROSS!

“Superman in the Bronze Age”! JULIUS SCHWARTZ, CURT SWAN, Superman Family, World of Krypton miniseries, and ALAN MOORE’s “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?”, art & comments by ADAMS, ANDERSON, CARDY, CHAYKIN, PAUL KUPPERBERG, OKSNER, O’NEIL, PASKO, ROZAKIS, SAVIUK, and more. Cover by GARCÍA-LÓPEZ and SCOTT WILLIAMS! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

“British Invasion” issue! History of Marvel UK, Beatles in comics, DC’s ‘80s British talent pool, V for Vendetta, Excalibur, Marshal Law, Doctor Who, “Pro2Pro” interview with PETER MILLIGAN & BRENDAN McCARTHY, plus BERGER, BOLLAND, DAVIS, GIBBONS, STAN LEE, LLOYD, MOORE, DEZ SKINN, and others. Fold-out triptych cover by RON WILSON and DAVE HUNT of Marvel UK’s rare 1970s “Quadra-Poster”!

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NS DRAW! (edited by MIKE MANLEY) is the professional EDITIO BLE A “HOW-TO” magazine on comics, cartooning, and IL AVA NLY animation. Each issue features in-depth INTERVIEWS FOR O 5 and DEMOS from top pros on all aspects of graphic $2.9 storytelling, as well as such DRAW! #4 skills as layout, penciling, inking, Interview with ERIK LARSEN, KEVIN lettering, coloring, Photoshop techNOWLAN on drawing and inking niques, plus web guides, tips, tricks, techniques, DAVE COOPER’s coloring techniques in Photoshop, BRET and a handy reference source—this BLEVINS tutorial on Figure magazine has it all! Composition, PAUL RIVOCHE on Design Process, reviews of NOTE: Some issues contain nudity for the comics drawing papers, and more! purposes of figure drawing. (88-page magazine) $5.95 INTENDED FOR MATURE READERS. (Digital Edition) $2.95

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MIKE WIERINGO interview, BENDIS and OEMING on how they create “Powers”, BRET BLEVINS shows “How to draw great hands”, “The illusion of depth in design” by PAUL RIVOCHE, art books reviewed by TERRY BEATTY, plus reviews of the best art supplies, and more!

Interview & demo with BILL WRAY, STEPHEN DeSTEFANO interview, BRET BLEVINS shows “How to draw the human figure in light and shadow,” Photoshop tutorial by CELIA CALLE, inking tips by MIKE MANLEY, reviews of the best art supplies, links, and more!

Interview/demo by DAN BRERETON, ZACH TRENHOLM on caricaturing, “Drawing In Adobe Illustrator” demo by ALBERTO RUIZ, “The Power of Sketching” by BRET BLEVINS, “Designing with light and shadow” by PAUL RIVOCHE, reviews of art supplies, links, and more!

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Interview & demo by MATT HALEY, TOM BANCROFT & ROB CORLEY on character design, “Drawing In Adobe Illustrator” by ALBERTO RUIZ, “Draping The Human Figure” by BRET BLEVINS, a new COMICS SECTION, International Spotlight on JOSÉ LOUIS AGREDA, and more!

WRITE NOW #8 crossover! MIKE MANLEY & DANNY FINGEROTH create a comic from script to print, BANCROFT & CORLEY on bringing characters to life, Adobe Illustrator with ALBERTO RUIZ, Noel Sickles’ work examined, PvP’s SCOTT KURTZ, art supply reviews, and more!

RON GARNEY interview & demo, GRAHAM NOLAN on creating newspaper strips, TODD KLEIN and others discuss lettering, “Draping The Human Figure, Part Two” by BRET BLEVINS, ALBERTO RUIZ on Adobe Illustrator, interview with MARK McKENNA, links, and more!

STEVE RUDE on comics & drawing, ROQUE BALLESTEROS on Flash animation, JIM BORGMAN on his daily comic strip Zits, BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY on “Drawing On Life”, Adobe Illustrator tips with ALBERTO RUIZ, links, a color section and more! New RUDE cover!

KYLE BAKER on merging traditional and digital art, MIKE HAWTHORNE on his work, “Making Perspective Work For You” by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, Photoshop techniques with ALBERTO RUIZ, THE VENTURE BROTHERS, links, and more! New BAKER cover!

Demo of painting methods by ALEX HORLEY, interview and demo by COLLEEN COOVER, a look behindthe-scenes on Adult Swim’s MINORITEAM, regular features on drawing by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, links, color section and more!

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In-depth interviews and demos with DOUG MAHNKE, OVI NEDELCU (Pigtale, WB Animation), STEVE PURCELL (Sam and Max), MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ COMIC ART BOOTCAMP on “Using Black to Power up Your Pages”, product reviews, and more!

Covers major schools offering comic art as part of their curriculum, in an ultimate overview of collegiate-level comic art classes! Plus, a “how-to” demo/interview with BILL REINHOLD, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ COMIC ART BOOTCAMP series, and more!

In-depth interview with HOWARD CHAYKIN, behind the drawing board and animation desk with JAY STEPHENS, COMIC ART BOOTCAMP on HOW TO USE REFERENCE and WORKING FROM PHOTOS (by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY), and more!

Interview and tutorial with Scott Pilgrim’s BRYAN LEE O’MALLEY on how he creates the acclaimed series, learn how B.P.R.D.’s GUY DAVIS creates his series, more Comic Art Bootcamp: Learning from The Great Cartoonists by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, reviews, and more!

Interview & demo by R.M. GUERA, Cartoon Network’s JAMES TUCKER on the hit show “Batman: The Brave and the Bold,” plus product reviews by JAMAR NICHOLAS, and Comic Book Boot Camp’s “Anatomy: Part 2” by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY!

DOUG BRAITHWAITE demo and interview, DANNY FINGEROTH’s new feature on writer/artists with R. SIKORYAK, BOB McLEOD critiques a newcomer’s work, JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews art supplies and tool tech, COMIC ART BOOTCAMP on penciling & more!

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WALTER SIMONSON interview and demo, Rough Stuff’s BOB McLEOD gives a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work, Write Now’s DANNY FINGEROTH spotlights writer/artist AL JAFFEE, JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews the best art supplies and tool technology, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS offer “Comic Art Bootcamp” lessons, plus Web links, book reviews, and more!

Urban Barbarian DAN PANOSIAN talks shop about his gritty, designinspired work with editor MIKE MANLEY, DANNY FINGEROTH interviews “Billy Dogma” writer/artist DEAN HASPIEL, plus more of MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, product and art supply reviews by JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

Interview with inker SCOTT WILLIAMS from his days at Marvel and Image to his work with JIM LEE, FRANK MILLER interview, plus MILLER and KLAUS JANSON show their working processes. Also, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, art supply reviews by “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

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C o l l e c t o r

The JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine (edited by JOHN MORROW) celebrates the life and career of the “King” of comics through INTERNS VIEWS WITH KIRBY and EDITIO BLE A IL his contemporaries, AVA NLY FEATURE ARTICLES, FOR O $3.95 RARE AND UNSEEN $1.95— KIRBY ART, plus regular columns by MARK EVANIER and others, and presentation of KIRBY’S UNINKED PENCILS from the 1960s-80s (from photocopies preserved in the KIRBY ARCHIVES).

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FIRST TABLOID-SIZE ISSUE! MARK EVANIER’s new column, interviews with KURT BUSIEK and JOSÉ LADRONN, NEAL ADAMS on Kirby, Giant-Man overview, Kirby’s best 2-page spreads, 2000 Kirby Tribute Panel (MARK EVANIER, GENE COLAN, MARIE SEVERIN, ROY THOMAS, and TRACY & JEREMY KIRBY), huge Kirby pencils! Wraparound KIRBY/ADAMS cover!

KIRBY’S LEAST-KNOWN WORK! MARK EVANIER on the Fourth World, unfinished THE HORDE novel, long-lost KIRBY INTERVIEW from France, update to the KIRBY CHECKLIST, pencil gallery of Kirby’s leastknown work (including THE PRISONER, BLACK HOLE, IN THE DAYS OF THE MOB, TRUE DIVORCE CASES), westerns, and more! KIRBY/LADRONN cover!

FANTASTIC FOUR ISSUE! Gallery of FF pencils at tabloid size, MARK EVANIER on the FF Cartoon series, interviews with STAN LEE and ERIK LARSEN, JOE SINNOTT salute, the HUMAN TORCH in STRANGE TALES, origins of Kirby Krackle, interviews with nearly EVERY WRITER AND ARTIST who worked on the FF after Kirby, & more! KIRBY/LARSEN and KIRBY/TIMM covers!

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FIGHTING AMERICANS! MARK EVANIER on 1960s Marvel inkers, SHIELD, Losers, and Green Arrow overviews, INFANTINO interview on Simon & Kirby, KIRBY interview, Captain America PENCIL ART GALLERY, PHILIPPE DRUILLET interview, JOE SIMON and ALEX TOTH speak, unseen BIG GAME HUNTER and YOUNG ABE LINCOLN Kirby concepts! KIRBY and KIRBY/TOTH covers!

GREAT ESCAPES! MISTER MIRACLE pencil art gallery, MARK EVANIER, MARSHALL ROGERS & MICHAEL CHABON interviews, comparing Kirby and Houdini’s backgrounds, analysis of “Himon,” 2001 Kirby Tribute Panel (WILL EISNER, JOHN BUSCEMA, JOHN ROMITA, MIKE ROYER, & JOHNNY CARSON) & more! KIRBY/MARSHALL ROGERS and KIRBY/STEVE RUDE covers!

THOR ISSUE! Never-seen KIRBY interview, JOE SINNOTT and JOHN ROMITA JR. on their Thor work, MARK EVANIER, extensive THOR and TALES OF ASGARD coverage, a look at the “real” Norse gods, 40 pages of KIRBY THOR PENCILS, including a Kirby Art Gallery at TABLOID SIZE, with pin-ups, covers, and more! KIRBY covers inked by MIKE ROYER and TREVOR VON EEDEN!

“HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY!” MIKE ROYER interview on how he inks Jack’s work, HUGE GALLERY tracing the evolution of Jack’s style, new column on OBSCURE KIRBY WORK, MARK EVANIER, special sections on Jack’s TECHNIQUE AND INFLUENCES, comparing STAN LEE’s writing to JACK’s, and more! Two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS!

“HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY!” PART 2: JOE SINNOTT on how he inks Jack’s work, HUGE PENCIL GALLERY, list of the art in the KIRBY ARCHIVES, MARK EVANIER, special sections on Jack’s technique and influences, SPEND A DAY WITH KIRBY (with JACK DAVIS, GULACY, HERNANDEZ BROS., and RUDE) and more! Two UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #39

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FAN FAVORITES! Covering Kirby’s work on HULK, INHUMANS, and SILVER SURFER, TOP PROS pick favorite Kirby covers, Kirby ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT interview, MARK EVANIER, 2002 Kirby Tribute Panel (DICK AYERS, TODD McFARLANE, PAUL LEVITZ, HERB TRIMPE), pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by MIKE ALLRED and P. CRAIG RUSSELL!

WORLD THAT’S COMING! KAMANDI and OMAC spotlight, 2003 Kirby Tribute Panel (WENDY PINI, MICHAEL CHABON, STAN GOLDBERG, SAL BUSCEMA, LARRY LIEBER, and STAN LEE), P. CRAIG RUSSELL interview, MARK EVANIER, NEW COLUMN analyzing Jack’s visual shorthand, pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by ERIK LARSEN and REEDMAN!

1970s MARVEL WORK! Coverage of ’70s work from Captain America to Eternals to Machine Man, DICK GIORDANO & MARK SHULTZ interviews, MARK EVANIER, 2004 Kirby Tribute Panel (STEVE RUDE, DAVE GIBBONS, WALTER SIMONSON, and PAUL RYAN), pencil art gallery, unused 1962 HULK #6 KIRBY PENCILS, and more! Kirby covers inked by GIORDANO and SCHULTZ!

1970s DC WORK! Coverage of Jimmy Olsen, FF movie set visit, overview of all Newsboy Legion stories, KEVIN NOWLAN and MURPHY ANDERSON on inking Jack, never-seen interview with Kirby, MARK EVANIER on Kirby’s covers, Bongo Comics’ Kirby ties, complete ’40s gangster story, pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by NOWLAN and ANDERSON!

KIRBY AWARD WINNERS! STEVE SHERMAN and others sharing memories and neverseen art from JACK & ROZ, a never-published 1966 interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER on VINCE COLLETTA, pencils-toSinnott inks comparison of TALES OF SUSPENSE #93, and more! Covers by KIRBY (Jack’s original ’70s SILVER STAR CONCEPT ART) and KIRBY/SINNOTT!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #44

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KIRBY’S MYTHOLOGICAL CHARACTERS! Coverage of DEMON, THOR, & GALACTUS, interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER, pencil art galleries of the Demon and other mythological characters, two never-reprinted BLACK MAGIC stories, interview with Kirby Award winner DAVID SCHWARTZ and F4 screenwriter MIKE FRANCE, and more! Kirby cover inked by MATT WAGNER!

Jack’s vision of PAST AND FUTURE, with a never-seen KIRBY interview, a new interview with son NEAL KIRBY, MARK EVANIER’S column, two pencil galleries, two complete ’50s stories, Jack’s first script, Kirby Tribute Panel (with EVANIER, KATZ, SHAW!, and SHERMAN), plus an unpublished CAPTAIN 3-D cover, inked by BILL BLACK and converted into 3-D by RAY ZONE!

Focus on NEW GODS, FOREVER PEOPLE, and DARKSEID! Includes a rare interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER’s column, FOURTH WORLD pencil art galleries (including Kirby’s redesigns for SUPER POWERS), two 1950s stories, a new Kirby Darkseid front cover inked by MIKE ROYER, a Kirby Forever People back cover inked by JOHN BYRNE, and more!

KIRBY’S SUPER TEAMS, from kid gangs and the Challengers, to Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Super Powers, with unseen 1960s Marvel art, a rare KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER’s column, two pencil art galleries, complete 1950s story, author JONATHAN LETHEM on his Kirby influence, interview with JOHN ROMITA, JR. on his Eternals work, and more!

KIRBYTECH ISSUE, spotlighting Jack’s hightech concepts, from Iron Man’s armor and Machine Man, to the Negative Zone and beyond! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER’s column, two pencil art galleries, complete 1950s story, TOM SCIOLI interview, Kirby Tribute Panel (with ADAMS, PÉREZ, and ROMITA), and covers inked by TERRY AUSTIN and TOM SCIOLI!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

(84-page tabloid magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $3.95

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #49

KIRBY COLLECTOR #51

KIRBY COLLECTOR #52

WARRIORS, spotlighting Thor (with a look at hidden messages in BILL EVERETT’s Thor inks), Sgt. Fury, Challengers of the Unknown, Losers, and others! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, interviews with JERRY ORDWAY and GRANT MORRISON, MARK EVANIER’s column, pencil art gallery, a complete 1950s story, wraparound Thor cover inked by JERRY ORDWAY, and more!

Bombastic EVERYTHING GOES issue, with a wealth of great submissions that couldn’t be pigeonholed into a “theme” issue! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, new interviews with JIM LEE and ADAM HUGHES, MARK EVANIER’s column, huge pencil art galleries, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS, and more!

Spotlights Kirby’s most obscure work: an UNUSED THOR STORY, BRUCE LEE comic, animation work, stage play, unaltered pages from KAMANDI, DEMON, DESTROYER DUCK, and more, including a feature examining the last page of his final issue of various series BEFORE EDITORIAL TAMPERING (with lots of surprises)! Color Kirby cover inked by DON HECK!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #55

KIRBY COLLECTOR #56

KIRBY COLLECTOR #57

KIRBY COLLECTOR #53

KIRBY COLLECTOR #54

THE MAGIC OF STAN & JACK! New interview with STAN LEE, walking tour of New York where Lee & Kirby lived and worked, re-evaluation of the “Lost” FF #108 story (including a new page that just surfaced), “What If Jack Hadn’t Left Marvel In 1970?,” plus MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, behind a color Kirby cover inked by GEORGE PÉREZ!

STAN & JACK PART TWO! More on the co-creators of the Marvel Universe, final interview (and cover inks) by GEORGE TUSKA, differences between KIRBY and DITKO’S approaches, WILL MURRAY on the origin of the FF, the mystery of Marvel cover dates, MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, plus Kirby back cover inked by JOE SINNOTT!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #59

KIRBY COLLECTOR #60

“Kirby Goes To Hollywood!” SERGIO ARAGONÉS and MELL LAZARUS recall Kirby’s BOB NEWHART TV show cameo, comparing the recent STAR WARS films to New Gods, RUBY & SPEARS interviewed, Jack’s encounters with FRANK ZAPPA, PAUL McCARTNEY, and JOHN LENNON, MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a Golden Age Kirby story, and more! Kirby cover inked by PAUL SMITH!

“Unfinished Sagas”—series, stories, and arcs Kirby never finished. TRUE DIVORCE CASES, RAAM THE MAN MOUNTAIN, KOBRA, DINGBATS, a complete story from SOUL LOVE, complete Boy Explorers story, two Kirby Tribute Panels, MARK EVANIER and other regular columnists, pencil art galleries, and more, with Kirby’s “Galaxy Green” cover inked by ROYER, and the unseen cover for SOUL LOVE #1!

“Legendary Kirby”—how Jack put his spin on classic folklore! TONY ISABELLA on SATAN’S SIX (with Kirby’s unseen layouts), Biblical inspirations of DEVIL DINOSAUR, THOR through the eyes of mythologist JOSEPH CAMPBELL, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, rare Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, pencil art from ETERNALS, DEMON, NEW GODS, THOR, and Jack’s ATLAS cover!

“Kirby Vault!” Rarities from the “King” of comics: Personal correspondence, private photos, collages, rare Marvelmania art, bootleg album covers, sketches, transcript of a 1969 VISIT TO THE KIRBY HOME (where Jack answers the questions YOU’D ask in ‘69), MARK EVANIER, pencil art from the FOURTH WORLD, CAPTAIN AMERICA, MACHINE MAN, SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, and more!

FANTASTIC FOUR FOLLOW-UP to #58’s THE WONDER YEARS! Never-seen FF wraparound cover, interview between FF inkers JOE SINNOTT and DICK AYERS, rare LEE & KIRBY interview, comparison of a Jack and Stan FF story conference to Stan’s final script and Jack’s penciled pages, MARK EVANIER and other columnists, gallery of KIRBY FF ART, pencils from BLACK PANTHER, SILVER SURFER, & more!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

(104-page magazine with COLOR) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUMES, edited by John Morrow Each book contains over 30 PIECES OF KIRBY ART NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED!

VOLUME 2

VOLUME 3

VOLUME 5

VOLUME 6

VOLUME 7

KIRBY CHECKLIST

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #10-12, and a tour of Jack’s home!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #13-15, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #20-22, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #23-26, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27-30, plus new art!

Lists EVERY KIRBY COMIC, BOOK, UNPUBLISHED WORK and more!

(160-page trade paperback) $17.95 ISBN: 9781893905016 Diamond Order Code: MAR042974

(176-page trade paperback) $19.95 ISBN: 9781893905023 Diamond Order Code: APR043058

(224-page trade paperback) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905573 Diamond Order Code: FEB063353

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490038 Diamond Order Code: JUN084280

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490120 Diamond Order Code: DEC084286

(128-page trade paperback) $14.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 ISBN: 9781605490052 Diamond Order Code: MAR084008

NEW!

Lee & Kirby: THE WONDER YEARS

Celebrate the 50th ANNIVERSARY OF FANTASTIC FOUR #1 with this special squarebound edition (#58) of THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR, about two pop-culture visionaries who created the Fantastic Four, and a decade in comics that was more tumultuous and awe-inspiring than any before or since. Calling on his years of research, plus new interviews conducted just for this book (with STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARK EVANIER, JOE SINNOTT, and others), regular Jack Kirby Collector contributor MARK ALEXANDER traces both Lee and Kirby’s history at Marvel Comics, and the remarkable series of events and career choices that led them to converge in 1961 to conceive the Fantastic Four. It also documents the evolution of the FF throughout the 1960s, with previously unknown details about Lee and Kirby’s working relationship, and their eventual parting of ways in 1970. With a wealth of historical information and amazing Kirby artwork, STAN LEE & JACK KIRBY: THE WONDER YEARS beautifully examines the first decade of the FF, and the events that put into motion the 1960s era that came to be known as the Marvel Age of Comics! (128-page tabloid-size trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781605490380 • Diamond Order Code: SEP111248

NEW!

SILVER STAR: GRAPHITE EDITION

First conceptualized in the 1970s as a movie screenplay, SILVER STAR was too far ahead of its time for Hollywood, so artist JACK KIRBY adapted it as a six-issue mini-series for Pacific Comics in the 1980s, making it his final, great comics series. Now the entire six-issue run is collected here, reproduced from his powerful, uninked PENCIL ART, showing Kirby’s work in its undiluted, raw form! Also included is Kirby’s ILLUSTRATED SILVER STAR MOVIE SCREENPLAY, never-seen SKETCHES, PIN-UPS, and an historical overview to put it all in perspective!

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR SPECIAL EDITION

(160-page trade paperback) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781893905559 Diamond Order Code: JAN063367

CAPTAIN VICTORY: GRAPHITE EDITION

Compiles the “extra” new material from COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUMES 1-7, in one huge Digital Edition! Includes a fan’s private tour of the Kirbys’ remarkable home, profusely illustrated with photos, and more than 200 pieces of Kirby art not published outside of those volumes. If you already own the individual issues and skipped the collections, or missed them in print form, now you can get caught up!

For the first time, JACK KIRBY’s original CAPTAIN VICTORY GRAPHIC NOVEL is presented as it was created in 1975 (before being broken up and modified for the 1980s Pacific Comics series), reproduced from copies of Kirby’s uninked pencil art! This first “new” Kirby comic in years features page after page of prime pencils, and includes Jack’s unused CAPTAIN VICTORY SCREENPLAY, unseen art, an historical overview to put it in perspective, and more! (52-page comic book) $5.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95

(120-page Digital Edition) $4.95

NOTE: THIS IS ISSUE #58 OF THE KIRBY COLLECTOR!

KIRBY FIVE-OH! CELEBRATING 50 YEARS OF THE “KING” OF COMICS

For its 50th issue, the publication that started TwoMorrows presents KIRBY FIVE-OH!, a BOOK covering the best of everything from Kirby’s 50-year career in comics! The regular KIRBY COLLECTOR columnists have formed a distinguished panel of experts to choose and examine: The BEST KIRBY STORY published each year from 1938-1987! The BEST COVERS from each decade! Jack’s 50 BEST UNUSED PIECES OF ART! His 50 BEST CHARACTER DESIGNS! And profiles of, and commentary by, the 50 PEOPLE MOST INFLUENCED BY KIRBY’S WORK! Plus there’s a 50-PAGE GALLERY of Kirby’s powerful RAW PENCIL ART, and a DELUXE COLOR SECTION of photos and finished art from throughout his entire half-century oeuvre. This TABLOID-SIZED TRADE PAPERBACK features a previously unseen Kirby Superman cover inked by “DC: The New Frontier” artist DARWYN COOKE, and an introduction by MARK EVANIER, helping make this the ultimate retrospective on the career of the “King” of comics! Takes the place of JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #50. (168-page tabloid-size trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781893905894 Diamond Order Code: FEB084186

NOTE: THIS IS ISSUE #50 OF THE KIRBY COLLECTOR!

KIRBY UNLEASHED (REMASTERED)

Reprinting the fabled 1971 KIRBY UNLEASHED PORTFOLIO, completely remastered! Spotlights some of KIRBY’s finest art from all eras of his career, including 1930s pencil work, unused strips, illustrated World War II letters, 1950s pages, unpublished 1960s Marvel pencil pages and sketches, and Fourth World pencil art (done expressly for this portfolio in 1970)! We’ve gone back to the original art to ensure the best reproduction possible, and MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN have updated the Kirby biography from the original printing, and added a new Foreword explaining how this portfolio came to be! PLUS: We’ve recolored the original color plates, and added EIGHT NEW BLACK-&-WHITE PAGES, plus EIGHT NEW COLOR PAGES, including Jack’s four GODS posters (released separately in 1972), and four extra Kirby color pieces, all at tabloid size! (60-page tabloid with COLOR) SOLD OUT • (Digital Edition) $5.95

TwoMorrows—A New Day For Comics Fandom! TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: store@twomorrowspubs.com • www.twomorrows.com

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #61

ALTER EGO #118

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #1 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #2

BRICKJOURNAL #24

Former COMIC BOOK ARTIST editor JON B. COOKE returns to TwoMorrows with his new magazine! #1 features: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY endured throughout his career, ALEX ROSS and KURT BUSIEK interviews, FRANK ROBBINS spotlight, remembering LES DANIELS, WILL EISNER’s Valentines to his beloved, a talk between NEAL ADAMS and DENNIS O’NEIL, new ALEX ROSS cover, and more!

JOE KUBERT double-size Summer Special tribute issue! Comprehensive examinations of each facet of Joe’s career, from Golden Age artist and 3-D comics pioneer, to top Tarzan artist, editor, and founder of the Kubert School. Kubert interviews, rare art and artifacts, testimonials, remembrances, portraits, anecdotes, pin-ups and miniinterviews by faculty, students, fans, friends and family! Edited by JON B. COOKE.

LEGO TRAINS! Builder CALE LEIPHART shows how to get started building trains and train layouts, with instructions on building microscale trains by editor JOE MENO, building layouts with the members of the Pennsylvania LEGO Users Group (PennLUG), fan-built LEGO monorails minifigure customization by JARED BURKS, microscale building by CHRISTOPHER DECK, “You Can Build It”, and more!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Now shipping!

(164-page FULL-COLOR mag) $17.95 (Digital Edition) $6.95 • Ships July 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships May 2013

ALTER EGO #119

ALTER EGO #120

ALTER EGO #121

JACK KIRBY: WRITER! Examines quirks of Kirby’s wordsmithing, from the FOURTH WORLD to ROMANCE and beyond! Lengthy Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and other columnists, LARRY LIEBER’s scripting for Jack at 1960s Marvel Comics, RAY ZONE on 3-D work with Kirby, comparing STEVE GERBER’s Destroyer Duck scripts to Jack’s pencils, Kirby’s best promo blurbs, Kirby pencil art gallery, & more!

AVENGERS 50th ANNIVERSARY! WILL MURRAY on the group’s behind-thescenes origin, a look at its first decade with ROY THOMAS, STAN LEE, JACK KIRBY, THE BROTHERS BUSCEMA, TUSKA, ADAMS, COLAN, BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, MERRY MARVEL MARCHING SOCIETY, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, FCA, Golden Age Blue Beetle artist E.C. STONER, unused Avengers cover by DON HECK!

MARC SWAYZE TRIBUTE ISSUE, spotlighting FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America)! Salutes from Fawcett alumnus C.C. BECK and OTTO BINDER, interview with wife JUNE SWAYZE, a full Phantom Eagle story from Wow Comics, plus interview with 1950s Dell/Western artist MEL KEEFER, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and a SWAYZE Marvel Family cover art from the 1940s!

X-MEN SALUTE! 1963-69 secrets, rare ‘60s BRAZILIAN X-MEN stories, lost ‘60s XMen “character sheet” by STAN LEE, ROY THOMAS on the 1970s revival, art and artifacts by KIRBY, ROTH, ADAMS, HECK, FRIEDRICH, and BUSCEMA—plus the MARVELMANIA fan club story, interview with Golden Age writer ED SILVERMAN, FCA, Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLY, and JACK KIRBY’s unused X-Men #10 cover!

GOLDEN AGE JUSTICE SOCIETY ISSUE! Features on JOHN B. WENTWORTH (Johnny Thunder), LEN SANSONE (The Atom), and BERNARD SACHS (All-Star Comics inker), art by CARMINE INFANTINO, PAUL REINMAN, MART NODELL, STAN ASCHMEIER, BEN FLINTON, and H.G. PETER, plus FCA, Mr. Monster, and more! Cover homage by SHANE FOLEY to a vintage All-Star image by IRWIN HASEN!

(104-page magazine with COLOR) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships June 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships June 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships July 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships August 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships Oct. 2013

DRAW! #25

BACK ISSUE #65

BACK ISSUE #66

BACK ISSUE #67

BACK ISSUE #68

LEE WEEKS (Daredevil, Incredible Hulk) gives insight into the artform, YILDIRAY ÇINAR (Noble Causes, Fury of the Firestorms) interview and demo, inker JOE RUBINSTEIN shows how he works, “Comic Art Bootcamp” with MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS, “Rough Critique” of a newcomer by BOB McLEOD, and “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews art supplies and software! Mature readers only.

“Bronze Age B-Teams”! Defenders issue-byissue overview, Champions, Guardians of the Galaxy, Inhumans, PETER DAVID’s X-Factor, Teen Titans West, Legion of Substitute Heroes, an all-star chatfest of Doom Patrol interviews, plus art and commentary by ROSS ANDRU, SAL BUSCEMA, KEITH GIFFEN, TONY ISABELLA, PAUL KUPPERBERG, ERIK LARSEN, GEORGE PÉREZ, BOB ROZAKIS, cover by KEVIN NOWLAN.

“Bronze Age Team-Ups”! Marvel Team-Up and Two-in-One, Super-Villain Team-Up, CLAREMONT and SIMONSON’s X-Men/New Teen Titans, DC Comics Presents, SuperTeam Family, HANEY and APARO’s Batman of Earth-B(&B), Superman/Captain Marvel smackdowns, plus art and commentary by BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, GARCÍA-LÓPEZ, GIFFEN, LEVITZ, WEIN, and a classic GIL KANE cover inked anew by TERRY AUSTIN.

“Heroes Out of Time!” Batman: Gotham by Gaslight with MIGNOLA, WAID, and AUGUSTYN, Booster Gold with JURGENS, X-Men: Days of Future Past with CHRIS CLAREMONT, Bill & Ted with EVAN DORKIN, interview with P. CRAIG RUSSELL, “Pro2Pro” with Time Masters’ BOB WAYNE and LEWIS SHINER, Karate Kid, New Mutants: Asgardian Wars, and Kang. Mignola cover.

“1970s and ‘80s Legion of Super-Heroes!” LEVITZ interview, the Legion’s Honored Dead, the Cosmic Boy miniseries, a Time Trapper history, the New Adventures of Superboy, Legion fantasy cover gallery by JOHN WATSON, plus BATES, COCKRUM, CONWAY, COLON, GIFFEN, GRELL, JANES, KUPPERBERG, LaROCQUE, LIGHTLE, SCHAFFENBERGER, SHERMAN, STATON, SWAN, WAID, & more! COCKRUM cover!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships July 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships June 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships July 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships August 2013

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships Sept. 2013

Ambitious new series documenting each decade of comic book history!

AMERICAN COMIC BOOK CHRONICLES: 1960-64 & The 1980s

JOHN WELLS covers comics in the 1960-64 JFK and Beatles era: DC’s new GREEN LANTERN, JUSTICE LEAGUE and multiple earths! LEE and KIRBY at Marvel on FF, SPIDER-MAN, HULK, and X-MEN! BATMAN’s “new look”, Charlton’s BLUE BEETLE, CREEPY #1 & more!

MODERN MASTERS: CLIFF CHIANG

Spotlights the career of CLIFF CHIANG (artist of DC’s New 52 breakout hit WONDER WOMAN series) through a career-spanning interview, and loads of both iconic and rarely seen artwork from Cliff’s personal files. There’s also an in-depth look into the artist’s work process, and an extensive gallery of commissioned pieces, many in full-color. By CHRIS ARRANT and ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON.

1960-64: (224-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 (Digital Edition) $11.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-045-8 • Out now! 1980s: (288-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $41.95 (Digital Edition) $12.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-046-5 • Out now!

(192-page trade paperback with COLOR) $27.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-051-9 • (Digital Edition) $8.95 • Ships July 2013

(120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $15.95 (Digital Editions) $4.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-050-2 Ships May 2013

THE STAR*REACH COMPANION

Complete history of the influential 1970s independent comic, featuring work by and interviews with DAVE STEVENS, FRANK BRUNNER, HOWARD CHAYKIN, STEVE LEIALOHA, WALTER SIMONSON, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH, KEN STEACY, JOHN WORKMAN, MIKE VOSBURG, P. CRAIG RUSSELL, DAVE SIM, MICHAEL GILBERT, and many others, plus full stories from STAR*REACH and its sister magazine IMAGINE. Cover by CHAYKIN! MATURE READERS ONLY.

KEITH DALLAS documents comics’ 1980s Reagan years: Rise and fall of JIM SHOOTER, FRANK MILLER as comic book superstar, DC’s CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, MOORE and GAIMAN’s British invasion, ECLIPSE, PACIFIC, FIRST, COMICO, DARK HORSE and more!

DAN SPIEGLE: A LIFE IN COMIC ART

PLUGGED IN!

COMICS PROS IN THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY

Documents his 60-year career on DELL and GOLD KEY’S licensed TV and Movie adaptions (LOST IN SPACE, KORAK, MAGNUS ROBOT FIGHTER, MIGHTY SAMPSON), at DC COMICS (BATMAN, UNKNOWN SOLDIER, TOMAHAWK, JONAH HEX, TEEN TITANS, BLACKHAWK), his CROSSFIRE series for ECLIPSE, DARK HORSE’S INDIANA JONES series and more, with rare artwork, personal photos, and private commission drawings. Written by JOHN COATES.

Offers invaluable tips for anyone entering the Video Game field, or with a fascination for both comics and gaming. KEITH VERONESE interviews artists and writers who work in video games full-time: JIMMY PALMIOTTI, CHRIS BACHALO, MIKE DEODATO, RICK REMENDER, TRENT KANIUGA, and others. Whether you’re a noob or experienced gamer or comics fan, be sure to get PLUGGED IN!

(160-page trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $6.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-048-9 • Ships May 2013

(104-page trade paperback) $14.95 • (Digital Edition) $4.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-049-6 • Ships May 2013

(128-page trade paperback with COLOR) $16.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-047-2 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Now shipping!

SUBSCRIBE! • Digital Editions: 3.95 each, or save with a digital subscription (digital editions are included FREE with a print subscription)! • Back Issue, Draw, Alter Ego & Comic Book Collector are now all full-color! • Lower international shipping rates! $

2013 SUBSCRIPTION RATES: (with FREE Digital Editions)

Media Mail

1st Class Canada 1st Class Priority US Intl. Intl.

Digital Only

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR (4 issues)

$50

$68

$65

$72

$150

$15.80

BACK ISSUE! (8 issues)

$60

$80

$85

$107

$155

$23.60

DRAW! (4 issues)

$30

$40

$43

$54

$78

$11.80

ALTER EGO (8 issues)

$60

$80

$85

$107

$155

$23.60

COMIC BOOK CREATOR (4 issues w/Special)

$36

$45

$50

$65

$95

$15.80

BRICKJOURNAL (6 issues)

$57

$72

$75

$86

$128

$23.70

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THE BEST OF ALTER EGO, VOL. 2

This sequel to ALTER EGO: THE BEST OF THE LEGENDARY COMICS FANZINE presents more vintage features from the first super-hero fanzine, begun by JERRY BAILS & ROY THOMAS. Editors ROY THOMAS and BILL SCHELLY reveal undiscovered gems from all 11 original issues published from 1961-78, including features on Hawkman, the Spectre, Blackhawk, the JLA, All Winners Squad, the Heap, an unsold “Tor” newspaper strip by JOE KUBERT, and more!