Modern Masters Volume 16: Mike Allred Preview by TwoMorrows Publishing

M O D E R N

M A S T E R S

V O L U M E

S I X T E E N :

Madman TM & ÂŠ2008 Mike Allred.

MIKE ALLRED

By Eric NolenWeathington

Modern Masters Volume Sixteen:

MIKE ALLRED

Table of Contents Introduction by Darwyn Cooke . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Part One: The Journey—a Long Road to Comics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Interlude: Under the Influence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 Part Two: All the Madmen—the Making of an Icon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 Part Three: It’s Only Rock ’n’ Roll—and Comics and Film . . . . . . . . . . . 37 Part Four: Bohemians Like You—Beatniks and Mutants . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 Part Five: Who Are You—the Mind of a Madman . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 Part Six: A Day in the Life—the Creative Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81 Art Gallery . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84

Part 1:

The Journey— a Long Road to Comics

MODERN MASTERS: You were born in Roseburg, Oregon. Is that correct?

and other friends’ houses. In the summertime, when it was suppertime, my mom had this cow bell that she would ring, [laughter] and we’d come running out from our secret, underground forts that we dug out. I have incredibly fond memories from my childhood. They’ve been rekindled recently, because my dad just died and I’ve been back there with family recounting all these things. And I’m sure I haven’t idealized it. I’m sure that it was really just that special. My dad had all these great art books, and we always had any number of art supplies and paper. There were books on cartooning, there were New Yorker cartoon collections. Dad had all kinds of different magazines—photography magazines, art magazines—an incredible library of material that just seemed endless. Every time we’d go to the bookshelves you could dig through and find something new, and they probably were new at the time. But there was always something fun and exciting. He would go on trips and come back, and we’d wake up and there would be toys there, whether it was a big, die cast metal plane or Peanuts figures. It was ideal—it really was. Until I guess I was about eleven years old when my parents split up. Soon after that puberty hit, so that idealized childhood was officially at an end.

MIKE ALLRED: That’s correct. MM: Was Roseburg a small town? MIKE: I think it’s somewhere around 40-50,000. MM: So it’s not that small, but not too big. MIKE: It was a nice size. It really did have a classic American, Norman Rockwell vibe to it. MM: So you probably had fairly open access to the rest of the world then. MIKE: Right. There was a local TV station that was affiliated with one of the large networks, and they had a local cartoon show host. But the best thing about my childhood, as I remember it, was how safe it felt—how warm and comfortable and, I guess, freeing it felt. For instance, we lived up on a hill, but could walk down by ourselves to the main downtown street— which, again, had that Norman Rockwell string of shops. It had a large Payless drugstore that had the classic comic spinner rack, and other drugstores which had comics on the shelves. If you didn’t have the quarter you needed on that day, you would just slide the comic behind the back of the shelf and come back for it later. [laughter] You think back on it now, you think, “Where in the world can people live like that any more?” We walked to school and cut through people’s backyards and over hills. We had our own trails to get around from school

MM: You said your dad had a lot of art and photography books, but he was a psychologist by profession. Evidently he had some artistic leaning, as well. MIKE: Very much so. He was really a unique person. 6

We just had his memorial Saturday, and it was actually at the art center in Roseburg. The art center gave one of its big showrooms for the memorial, and it was packed. I can’t imagine having that many people show up for a funeral or memorial for me. I live a pretty isolated existence locally. I can honestly say my best friends live either several hours away or cross-country. Other than my childhood friends who live very far away, the closest friends I’ve made over the years have been people I’ve gotten to know at comic book conventions or through professional contact. So the idea of building up this kind of communal, enthusiastic representation... I was blown away. It was a day full of people sharing all kinds of amazing memories, and the thing about my dad, he was never satisfied with one thing. He went from hobby to hobby. For instance, he would scuba dive, he would sky dive, he flew gliders, he was an aviator. He built two old-style, open cockpit bi-planes in our basement. He built a single-seater, and after that he built a double-seater. He took a VW Bug that had been wrecked by a friend and turned it into a dune buggy, which he would drive on the hills behind our house. He was a hiker, and he also got into studying wildflowers and insects—butterfly collecting. He never stopped taking art courses—everything from watercolor to sculpting to eventually doing bronzes of his own sculptures. Man, I could go on—he was a writer. He was in a writing class when he was a kid, and they were tasked to send out their work with the idea that the teacher would then instruct them on how to take their rejection letters and apply them constructively. Well, my dad was accepted by The Saturday Evening Post! MM: Wow! MIKE: Yeah! Photography—he built a darkroom in our basement. One of his friends read one of Dad’s short stories at the memorial, and it got a crazed ovation it was so entertaining. [pauses and exhales] Honestly, if this was Friday and I was relating this stuff, I’d be bawling my eyes out. I miss him terribly. He had this deep, soothing voice that—he was just a really charming, friendly, nice, enthusiastic guy. Always looking at the humorous side of things. He worked with Ken Kesey at the VA hospital before Kesey wrote One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. MM: It sounds like you had a truly great environment in which to explore your creative side while growing up. Obviously, you’ve gone not just into art, but film and music. MIKE: Right, I guess that was the point I was trying to make. There was this environment growing up of “you can achieve whatever you want as long as you set your mind to it. You never have to take no for an answer or take criticism as a dead end.” Music, that was more from my mom. It’s no secret my dad lost his left hand—and this is one of the mysteries 7

Previous Page: Mike and brothers, Lee and Curtis, make the rounds through Roseburg, from Solo #7. Left: Mike (left) and big brother, Lee. Below: They!—Mike’s first serious attempt at creating a comic book, with Lee Allred as writer and Laura Allred as letterer (hence the “Allred x 3” credit). They! ™ and ©2008 Michael Allred and Lee Allred. Sandman ™ and ©2008 DC Comics.

Below: As with many other comic professionals and fans alike, the Batman TV show made a huge impact on Mike as a child. This “Batusi” image was meant to be the cover to Solo #7, but was replaced with a Wonder Girl watusi image. Next Page: Page 20 of the Dead Air graphic novel. Batman ™ and ©2008 DC Comics. Dead Air ™ and ©2008 Michael Allred.

about him. He never told anyone definitively how he lost his hand. His parents were married 77 years before they died—each of them nearly made it to a hundred—and that secret went to the grave with them. At the memorial it became a running joke. Each time somebody would come up, they would tell another story that Dad had related as to how he had lost his hand. Either getting it cut off in a propeller, a hand grenade, a shark attack.... [laughter] But that would have been his only real limitation, because most instruments take two hands. So I would definitely have to give my mom full credit for forcing piano lessons and guitar lessons on us when we were kids. [laughter] But that eventually took hold in my adolescent years when I discovered rock ’n’ roll and built this incredible record collection. But, again, that was the idea, that if something interested you to just really sponge it up and figure out why it interests you and try to apply it. I found that all of those things can be applied to what I do now working as a cartoonist. There’s a musicality to cartooning—rhythm and tones and texturing. And, of course, everything

you get from cinematic storytelling can be applied to comic books. This thoughtful process that we were taught growing up has become very useful in my everyday life. MM: What was the first thing to really grab you? Was it comics, television, music...? MIKE: I think all of these things were taken for granted, because they were always there. Every time we went on a trip, my parents would give us some money and we would stock up on comic books. It was just something that was there. I remember getting up on a card table, and my big brother was yelling, “Dance, Mike, dance!” He was shaking the table to make me dance. It was like some bizarro Western, but instead of shooting at my feet he was shaking the table. [laughter] The next thing I remember I was waking up in the hospital with a concussion. [laughter] But I was surrounded by comic books on the bed. And there was always an interest in going to the movies. Again, I’m not painting a false picture; the town really was an idyllic, wonderful town. Jackson Street was the main drive, and Johnny’s Toy Store was there, Rickett’s Music Store was there, but also the Indian Theater was there. On Saturdays, if you had bags of bread from the local bakery you could get in free, so we’d bring the bags and go to the matinee. This was one of those great old theaters with the balcony, and we’d go to the balcony and hang over the top. Some of my most vivid childhood memories are films I saw there. It was all there: the music, movies—TV not so much until probably right before I hit puberty when we got cable. Before that we were lucky to get two and a half channels. When we got cable in the ’70s, every afternoon when I’d get home from school and crack on the TV there’d be Star Trek, Batman, Land of the Giants, Lost in Space, Get Smart, Leave it to Beaver... Twilight Zone, Outer Limits. These were syndicated rerun shows, so I didn’t have to wait a week to see the next episode, I’d see them every day. It was great to all of a sudden get a color TV and cable and see all this stuff. So I can’t really say one thing took hold, because everything was just there.

Interlude:

Under the Influence

Jack Kirby I’m not alone in finding him to be one of the most powerful and inspiring artists ever. His work had surrounded me in my youth; I just didn’t know that. It was years later when I rediscovered comic books and approached them in a more historical way that I learned the genealogy and significance of comic book creators, and that’s when I realized that all this stuff which made an impact and was very present in my head was work done by Jack Kirby. I admire his energy, his passion, and, as I’ve learned more about him, even the way he lived his life. He was a man of great integrity. He was very dignified, the way he handled himself through adversity and through success. He was a humble man. I had the great honor of meeting him a couple of times, and he was an extremely generous and kind person. His work just explodes with energy. Even the quiet moments in his work, where there are just a couple of people walking down the street, there’s still something that crackles about it, there’s something that’s just alive about it, and that’s something that I want in my work.

Part 2:

All the Madmen— the Making of an Icon

MM: Let’s talk about the process you went through developing the Frank Einstein character into Madman.

just thought, “That’s cool. I’ve already thought of Frank Einstein, so what does ‘Frank’ represent?” Frank Sinatra had this sort of cool, confident, tough image that worked perfectly as a contrast to Albert Einstein. So when I came up with the story and had the scientists naming this poor John Doe after two of their heroes, it just seemed to fit; it worked really nicely.

MIKE: Frank Einstein was my favorite character and was becoming my most popular character based on the letters and feedback I was getting. At this time our kids were starting school and they were telling their friends what their dad did for a living, and I wanted to do something that they would enjoy, too, because my work up ’til then was a little esoteric and experimental and, honestly, flailing in many ways. I was still trying to find what I really wanted to do. So I dug deep into my childhood and my affection for the characters and books that I loved then, and I decided I would bring that to my Frank Einstein character. Initially he was going to be this kind of ghostly character, and in many ways an homage to Will Eisner, and it was going to be called The Spook. I printed up these glow-in-the-dark Spook t-shirts and made up a dummy book with a cover and put it in a bag and board so it would look like a published book. WonderCon was coming up—I guess this would have been ’91, because that’s when I met Kevin Eastman.

MM: How did the first Madman mini-series come about with Tundra? MIKE: One thing that worked to my benefit was Kevin Eastman with Tundra—I don’t know if you’re familiar with Apple Records, but with the phenomenal success of the Beatles, they created their own record label. It was to be this place where musicians were treated “the right way” and the creators came first. Tundra was kind of presented by Kevin Eastman in the same way: “Creator rights come first. This is going to be the model for all publishers.” So I just felt really grateful to be a part of it. Also, Kevin Eastman was, and is, a very generous person in giving these advances, and a lot of big names were going to have their personal creations spotlighted through Tundra. Let’s just say that some of them weren’t as fast as Kevin had hoped they would be, and so a lot of stuff either came out quite slowly or just not at all. At that time, I became really good friends with a young, phenomenally talented creator named Al Columbia. He was being tasked to take over Big Numbers from Bill Sienkiewicz, and this was going to be one of the big releases from Tundra. I would go to North Hampton a lot, where Tundra was headquartered and Al was living there. He was a huge inspiration to me— amazingly talented. I’ve got a couple of his Madman pieces in the Madman Gallery book. There’s this legendary story of how he was working on the fourth issue of Big Numbers—and I saw it, by the way. It was beautiful work. But it just disappeared, and Al ended up disappearing, too. It’s a story that’s become quite mythical.

MM: Frank Einstein is a terrific play on words that fits the character so perfectly. Not only do you have the homages to Frank Sinatra and Albert Einstein, but you have the obvious Frankenstein reference. Not to mention the word frank itself means open and honest, which Frank certainly is. What was the stroke of inspiration that made you settle on that name? MIKE: It’s the kind of thing that, once you think about it, you want to make sure nobody else gets it before you do. You’re just terrified and paranoid, just like when I thought up the name Madman. I mean, Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, Madman... I was like, “Oh, please let this be mine.” Around that time I had opened myself up to other music outside the rock ’n’ roll that had filled my head for so many years, and I had been listening to a lot of standards, particularly a lot of Frank Sinatra. And I 20

MM: Yeah, I was working in a comic shop when all this was going on, and all the rumors were flying around. MIKE: I consider myself very lucky for having seen this amazing work, but there were stories that it was destroyed, that it was stolen... but it was the death of this monumental project of Alan Moore’s. This was his next big thing to follow Watchmen. So this was the kind of stuff that was surrounding Tundra, but Al was my best buddy in this new Tundra family that I had. Being new and relatively unknown—both of us—we would be at the shows together, and this is when we’d go to every single comic book show there was. It was a lot of traveling and we bonded through that. And I learned a lot from him and just what real, pure talent was. But because of how hard I was forced to work in the Air Force.... I mean, I couldn’t just call in sick. They would make you go to sick call and prove that you were sick. [laughter] That’s one of the downsides to being in the military, at least from my experience. But what happened was you’d develop a really strong work ethic. Getting out of that situation and having this great opportunity with my own creation at this company that was generating a lot of excitement, I would have felt foolish if I hadn’t applied the work ethic I had learned in the Air Force to my now chosen profession. So I did; I worked passionately all day and night to make sure my book was ready to go when it was scheduled to. Because of that I was rewarded again and again, because, “Hey, this guy is doing the work, and we like what he’s doing.” So the people at Tundra would talk about it and call and every department would have ideas about marketing it. Going to all these different shows I had an

illustration of Frank Einstein in this swirling time warp. As I was making new friends and meeting other creators I admired, I would be working on it. Nobody really knew who I was. It’s not like people were lining up to get me to sign anything. “Here, I’ve got an issue of Grafik Musik I want you to sign”—that didn’t really happen. [laughter] But people were seeing what I was working on, and Dave Stevens, who became a really great friend, drew something on there; Al drew something on there. People would come up and say, “Ooh, what’s that?” And they would see guys like Dave Stevens and Geof Darrow drawing on it and they would say, “I want to draw something on it.” All of these amazing creators over the course of that convention season drew all over this thing. Tundra just got really excited about promoting anything that I was doing and they made a big print out of it and came up with a big contest, “How many creators can you name?” They just put a lot of promotion not only into the first series, but then had the faith to allow me to do a full-color series. MM: At that point, had you developed a plan of where you wanted to take the Madman series? MIKE: I was really getting into Tintin at the time, and I loved these self-contained adventure books. The idea 21

Both Pages: The evolution of a Madman. From Frank Einstein as he appeared in Creatures of the Id (inked by Bernie Mireault), through name changes as The Spook and The Goon, and finally the emergence of Madman in the Tundra mini-series. Frank Einstein, Madman ™ and ©2008 Michael Allred.

Below: The infamous eye-popping scene from Madman #1. Next Page: Madman #1, page 22.

then was to do Madman Adventures, where they would be these self-contained, squarebound books in full color. They were going to be 48 pages each, but the first one had 64 pages. The folks at Tundra said, “Well, let’s also release it as two traditional, saddle-stitched comics and give people the choice.” That became so successful that they talked me into sticking with the traditional comic book format. That caused a little confusion at the time, but from then on it was “This is what Madman is about: a traditional comic book action hero.” By this point Kevin kind of got tired—I think he felt he was being taken for granted—and also he was passionate about Heavy Metal magazine, which he had purchased, and he put all of his energy into that. Kitchen Sink Press picked up the loose ends, and I was a free agent. Madman had won the Harvey for Best New Series and was up for all of these different awards, but what was going to happen to it was a big question mark. I had met and gotten to be really good friends with Bob Schreck, who had been the marketing director at Comico but who was now going to be the

marketing director at Dark Horse. Schreck was like, “Hey, what are you going to do with Madman?” I told him, “Well, I haven’t really thought about it. I’m waiting for an offer from Denis Kitchen.” Schreck said, “Don’t do anything. Let me get back to you.” He got with Mike Richardson and made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. Schreck was interested in becoming an editor and he became my editor on Madman, but in many ways he was my own personal marketing director while Dark Horse looked for a new marketing director. For that and many other reasons, Dark Horse launched Madman even higher into the stratosphere. MM: Going back to the first mini-series, you said you wanted something your kids could enjoy, but the first scene of the first book has Madman digging a guy’s eyeball out of its socket and popping it in his mouth. That isn’t a very kid-friendly moment. MIKE: Yeah, that’s true. That’s the most controversial moment in Madman history. I was making a transition. The books that up to that point had really blown me away and that I aspired to were things like Love & Rockets, Eightball, and even more extreme stuff like Yummy Fur, which is really out there and definitely an acquired taste. There was real talent behind that work. I mean Chester Brown, Dan Clowes, the Hernandez Bros.—these guys are some of the best artists that have ever worked in comics, and they’re completely unique. So I was aspiring to that level of quality and uniqueness, but at the same time I was being pulled by the nostalgia of my childhood. There was a battle going on there. What was my work going to be? It really was my children that made me decide that what I wanted to do was all-ages work that could be timeless in some way. I then found other things I had great affection for, like the big, finned cars of the ’50s and the weird household item design work that typified each decade. To keep the Madman/Snap City universe from looking

that can all play off each other. That’s kind of how all these characters come to be. They’ll initially be something or have some reason for being a part of the plot, and then I’ll find that there are other reasons and other combinations that create a chemistry around them. Through this process, all of these different characters come to exist.

some pride in that; I think he encouraged these stories. For instance, on one of the rare times he went to a comic book show, he got into a fight with somebody and heaved him into a swimming pool. And that was just one example of the stories that would go around about Toth. So as I would go the shows and become friendly with other people I admired, we would swap pin-ups. It was the decade of creator-owned characters, so as you went from show to show you’d be trading and cross-promoting each other’s work with your characters. This is how my Madman Gallery started, where I was getting Madman illustrations from all these amazing people. But how am I going to get an illustration from Alex Toth if I never meet him? Fortunately, I met an art dealer who had sold some of Toth’s work. He had his address and phone number, and kind of dared me, “Why don’t you send your stuff? Ask him, see if he’ll do one for you.” I figured, “Well, I’ve got nothing to lose.” So I put a little package together and sent it to Alex. I thought, do I dare call him? I had this phone number, and I was told that he’d never answer the phone, but I thought, “Well, it won’t hurt to call, because he’s not going to answer it. If he does answer it, I’ll ask him if he got the package.” So I called, and he answered! I introduced myself and asked if he’d gotten the package. He said he did, and he started praising it. Now, keep in mind, I was expecting to get, “What are you calling me for? Leave me alone! Who do you think you are?” But, in fact, it was like Santa Claus answered the phone and was telling me I was a good boy. [laughter] He just went on and on. So I was encouraged to ask him, “It would mean a lot to me if you could draw him for me.” And he said, “Oh, I’ve already done that and I’ve sent it off to you. You’ll probably get it tomorrow or the next day, because I just sent it out.” Of course, I was blown away. “Oh, really? You did this for me?” I explained that what I was planning to do was, I wanted each back cover to be by a different artist, but we were also going to put a card collection together. Cards were really big at that time. So he said, “Well, I’ll do another one for you then. One for a card, and one for a back cover.” I was just climbing up the walls, bouncing around like an insane little child. And, sure enough, he did these two wonderful illustrations for me, and one was used for a card, and one was a back cover.

MM: Did you have one of those disc shooters as a kid? Because I did. MIKE: Oh, yeah! The first one I had was licensed Star Trek merchandise. On the back of the package were these painted illustrations of Kirk and Spock and McCoy, and it was Star Trek Disc Gun. Yeah, those discs went all over the place. I haven’t seen them in stores for a while, but they were in stores in ’94 when I put one in Frank Einstein’s hands, and I got an orange one. I would tell people that there used to be a Star Trek gun, and some people would say, “Oh, yeah. That’s right. I remember that.” Years later somebody gave me a gold one like the one that I had as a kid. I think they also had blue— MM: Yeah, we had blue guns. MIKE: Somebody gave me a rifle version. There’s a little, tiny rifle. I’d never seen one before or since; I just have the one that was given to me by, again, a mutual friend of Bob Schreck, a terrific guy named Shannon. It’s just amazing when people give you cool stuff. MM: You got a letter from Alex Toth which you printed in the back of the second issue, I believe. MIKE: Oh, yeah. Like we’ve talked about, you go to comic book shows and you meet all your heroes. That’s where I met Jack Kirby; Will Eisner was in one of these public situations promoting that documentary, and later he would show up at the comic shows. But Alex Toth stopped going to shows. And, because I’ve stopped going to shows, I hope people don’t regard me that way. I don’t know why he stopped going to shows, but Toth was a notorious crank. I think it’s fair to say that, and I think he was aware of that. I think in some ways he took 31

Western, a detective story... every genre that you can think of I want to somehow twist and bend its way into Madman. But then I don’t ever want to hold to the stereotypes or the clichés or the predictability of a genre that I decide to integrate into the work, so there were all these other elements that kind of threw it off what you would normally expect with that kind of story. The thing that I’m most proud of was the giant fight scene that takes place through most of that arc between this circus performer called Muscle Man—who’s your circus muscle man with the difference being that he has no skin, so you literally see his muscles— and Madman. That was a tribute to your classic Kirby fights—the Thing fighting the Hulk, for instance. But what I wanted to do was continue to apply this existentialism, a philosophy which has always been a part of the Madman story. Who are we, why are we here? And so, instead of your traditional Marvel captions, which are describing the battle, I have things in the dialogue taking place simultaneously with this battle, and the contrast, I think, was powerful, at least based on the reaction that it got. It’s one of the wonderful, rare times where your intentions are completely realized, and for that reason, I’m really proud of that.

Keep in mind that Hellboy didn’t exist before Legend, and this was Mike’s baby, and it was just starting to take off. If you talk to Mike now, he’s incredibly confident and he realizes his strengths and talents as a storyteller, whereas, at that time, he was treading lightly, and he was tiptoeing and trying to find his footing. Everything he’d done to that point was with other writers. MM: He even had John Byrne write the dialogue for the first Hellboy story. MIKE: Exactly. So it was really fun to see him develop as a storyteller and create what is now this established, heavily influential, heavily ripped off style. But he was still honing it then. His unique style developed very quickly, and really kind of took hold with Cosmic Odyssey, but, after Hellboy you see something completely unique to comics.

MM: In the next issue there was a Hellboy cameo, and in issues #6 and #7, you have a crossover with the Big Guy, so it was like you were trying to reinforce a sense of community with the Legend guys, like you were all part of a big gang. Was that an extra bit of fun for you? MIKE: Oh, yeah. It was classic. The reason that Hellboy didn’t have a full-on crossover was that I didn’t want to force myself on anybody, so I was kind of tiptoeing, finding my place in this group of legends. We talked about this stuff, and there were these open invitations, like, “Yeah, do whatever you want.” But I don’t like when you say to a houseguest, “Oh, yeah, come and stay with us,” and then they never leave. [laughter] I didn’t want to be that guy, so I trod softly by just having a more subtle appearance with Hellboy. In retrospect, I wish I had done a full-on adventure. It was really fun in that time also because Hellboy was exploding. 34

Part 3:

It’s Only Rock ’n’ Roll— and Comics and Film

MM: After a time Madman went on hiatus as Hollywood became interested in the property. What’s the story behind that? MIKE: Well, while it was still at Tundra, the first interest was from 20th Century Fox, and it was really weird because they must have just been fishing because we got a phone call and they asked to have a bunch of books sent so everybody in this particular office could see it. Which we did, and then we got a letter saying, “Thank you for your interest, but we’re....” It was weird. [laughs] They showed interest, and then I got a letter that kind of sounded like I had approached them. That was my first experience, just this quick in-and-out flush. MM: Was that part of the aftermath of Tim Burton’s Batman movie? MIKE: Well, after that. It was actually closer to the time when The Crow was huge. Tundra had picked up The Crow, and Madman was second only to The Crow as far as commercial success at Tundra. And I think maybe The Crow’s success as a book and then also as a film is why there was some interest shown. And, also, Tundra was becoming active, especially considering that also around that time the

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movies were really big, too, and Kevin Eastman was doing well with that. But it was after the next level of success at Dark Horse that I was approached by a guy who wanted to be my manager and we “took meetings.” [laughter] I’m trying to remember the Hollywood lingo. Universal Pictures picked it up, and that was really great, at least from a confidenceboosting, ego-boosting standpoint. They would constantly fly me in first class, put me up in four-star hotels, and it was the complete red carpet experience. But what I soon realized was that nothing was moving forward. It was a really strange process in that they would fly me down for a one- or two-hour meeting, and I would go back home the next day with no real sense of forward momentum. At that point I took some of the money that they had given me and, in order to kind of exercise my passion for film and also maybe to show them that they should consider me to direct the film, keeping in mind my television experience.... The way I’ve always looked at it was that comic books are essentially like still frames from a film, and your captions and word balloons place your dialogue. An individual can take their film idea and adapt it to the comic book medium. And, as I said before, that’s kind of how I got pulled back into the medium to begin with, with my movie-going pal

giving me comic books. It just seemed a natural step for me to helm the film in that it was all in my head. So I did a film called Astroesque using Robert Rodriguez’s El Mariachi Formula. He wrote a book called Rebel without a Crew which in great detail explained how he made El Mariachi for, like, $7000. So I thought, “Well, I’ll just spend a couple more thousand dollars, [laughs] and just set about doing it.”

on almost every instrument, when you come down to it. [laughter] But it just seemed to me, with this opportunity and all of a sudden having money that we weren’t counting on.... Laura and I have always been very frugal and responsible, and we knew what our budget was and how we wanted to live simply, but with this movie money, all of a sudden we had money we weren’t necessarily counting on—although what I think anybody finds out is that when you start making more money, you start spending more money, without even realizing it. The first step in that direction was deciding, “Hey, let’s take some of this money and make a no-budget film, and, at the same time, let’s build a recording studio.” [laughter] There was really a very enthusiastic do-it-yourself movement kicking in around that time—do-it-yourself movies, do-it-yourself recordings—that all of this stuff which normally you would need your big break to do, anybody, even if you just bought a cheap $400 track recorder, could make a CD. Small bands were making vinyl recordings, putting them out on records. It’s important to note that the independent music scene was really active at that time, and a lot of stuff was kicking up, and it just seemed like if I didn’t take these opportunities which were presenting themselves to me, with all this access to film equipment and recording equipment, that I’d be stupid if I didn’t try to exercise all these muscles. Looking back, I would say this is the crucial two or three years that really taught me almost everything which I’ve adhered to ever since as far as ethics, whether it’s business ethics, creative ethics, or commitment ethics. This was where I really worked this stuff out, by doing all of these things. When making Astroesque, what I didn’t account for was the complex story that I wrote and needing the actors to deliver all the exposition. I had just figured, “Say the line and we’ll make it work, fix it in editing and what have you.” It was just me and some friends—there were no professional actors—and my buddy Shane Hawks, who was a film student, was helping me in the editing and production. Putting it together, there were just a lot of cringe-worthy

MM: Did the Red Rocket 7 idea come from this decision to make Astroesque, or was the idea of doing a three-pronged attack there from the onset? Where did that idea begin? MIKE: Looking back at it now, it all seemed to all come together at the same time, so it’s really hard to nail down. There was, on the one hand, all this activity around Madman, me trying to keep some kind of schedule, the interest in Hollywood and being given this royal treatment and trying to stay grounded, and also being concerned about how to make the next move to keep all my options open and have the license to do whatever I wanted—which is ultimately what any creative individual wants is to not have their options shut down. I also wanted to do stuff with my band, The Gear, which I write all the music for, I play guitar, I’m the lead singer—it’s me

moments where I’d just go, “Oh, this just isn’t what I was seeing.” Universal knew I was making this film, but I wouldn’t show any of it to them, so them taking me seriously as the director kind of evaporated. Though I did make a trailer for Astroesque which is really powerful—I think it’s pretty sweet—and the visual elements in the film, I think, are right on. Here where we live there are forests and streams and cliffs and expanses of dunes. It’s the largest coastal dune park in the country. MM: Oh, okay. I was wondering where you shot the desert scenes. MIKE: Yeah, it’s all here. It’s just the most amazingly diverse place in one small area that you can imagine, and we had access to all this stuff, so visually I’m really proud of it. Ultimately we ended up taking inspiration from Nicholas Roeg, who’s this very ambiguous director that I admire. He made The Man that Fell to Earth, which was an inspiration. His movies are the kind of, I guess you’d call

them trip movies—the kind you’d go see at midnight and maybe even do some substance to enhance the experience. [laughter] But you would end up discussing what it was about. So I ended up just cutting out almost all of the dialogue, because it just wasn’t working, and figured that maybe I could tell it visually, so I kind of reedited it that way. And that’s what we ended up releasing on video. Then later—jumping just a little bit ahead—some of my earlier comic book work was adapted into a movie called G-Men from Hell, and that was directing by Christopher Coppola, who is Nicholas Cage’s older brother, Francis’ nephew. We offered Astroesque for a special feature on the DVD. Unfortunately, the version that wasn’t letterboxed or properly sound mixed is what was used, so I’m afraid that that’s going to be its legacy. But the VHS copy of Astroesque is actually something that I’m very happy with. MM: How did Robert Rodriguez get involved with the movie? 39

Previous Page: Album cover art for Mike’s band, The Gear. Above: Mattress and Crept—the G-Men from Hell! Page from their adventures in Grafik Musik, and the cover to the trade paperback collection of the story. The Gear, G-Men from Hell, Madman ™ and ©2008 Michael Allred.

Part 4:

Bohemian Like You— Beatniks and Mutants

MM: Well, let’s move on to X-Force then, where you and Peter Milligan threw out the old team and created a whole new cast of characters for the X-universe.

have to create twice as many, because in the first issue we’re going to kill all the new characters.” It was the kind of challenge that I was ready for. Now, at this time I was working on Atomics.

MIKE: That started with Joe Quesada and the editor, Axel Alonso. I had known Joe way back from when he first came on the scene. He showed up around the same time that I did, and we would see each other at shows and stuff, so we had this history. When he got the editorin-chief job at Marvel, I read all of his intentions and what he hoped to do at the company, and it sounded like, again, that party. It was like bringing back the Bullpen atmosphere. So I called him up and said, “Hey, if there’s any place for me at this party, I’d be really interested.” He immediately sicced a bunch of his editors on me to get an idea of where I could fit in with some of the things that they were planning. But it was Axel Alonso who, almost embarrassed, asked if I’d be interested in revamping X-Force. And his initial instincts were correct; I was, like, “No way.” [laughter] But then he told me that Peter Milligan was on board. I had always admired him, and had done that Shade story with him years earlier. And then I was told, “We’re trashing....” Well, maybe I shouldn’t use the word “trashing.” [laughs] “We’re getting rid of the team entirely. It’s going to be X-Force in name only. This is a Marvel mutant book using the X-Force name, but we’re going to need you to create new characters.” Then I perked up. That was, like, “Yes! This sounds great.” Just like the Watchmen example, here in the big spotlight, creating all new characters that would be ours. I immediately started doodling while we were still having this conversation on the phone. All these mutant character ideas started coming to me. He told me, “Not only are we going to need you to create all new characters, you’re going to

MM: Right, I was going to bring that up, because there seem to be some similarities there. The same kind of thing, you’ve created these mutated street beatniks for Atomics, and here with X-Force you have mutants. MIKE: Exactly. Taking a small step back, after this recommitment to comics following the Red Rocket 7 project, Robert Rodriguez, after he passed on Universal, told me that he wanted to do Madman, and if the rights ever reverted to me that he would pick them up. Because of that, and also because the red carpet treatment really gets old after a while when that’s all it is and nothing happens. I just didn’t want to spend more time flying down there and having lunch and.... It was so tiresome. It was really easy to just stop providing input and let it lapse. MM: Did a full script ever get written? MIKE: Yeah, a terrific guy named Dean Lorey wrote a draft and then went on to produce and write on Arrested Development. Robert Rodriguez was the first person to give me any constructive feedback on my draft. The problem with that was the script that I had written started with the plot thread from the original series, but worked really hard to get in elements that were in the current books, like Mott the alien from Hoople. It was just a real mish-mash, and it was really forced, just shoving everything in there. But at the time I wrote it I was thinking that’s the thing 50

to do, jam as much stuff in there as I can. The option lapsed about a year after that, and in the meantime Robert and I got to be really great friends. He came up and stayed at our house, I went down to stay at his house. And calling his house a house is kind of an understatement. [laughs] He’d just finished his palace the first time I went there, and it’s become Disneyland since then. So, by when the option lapsed, Robert immediately snatched it up, and next year is going to be our tenyear anniversary of him optioning the Madman project. We can talk about that later, but what’s most important about this time period was my recommitment to comics. I got with Mike Richardson and told him, “Okay, I’m going to stay away from these esoteric projects. Right now I’m going to completely commit to what I do best.” I had the idea of spinning off the mutant beatniks into a super-hero team, which was The Atomics. With Red Rocket 7, I’d been largely successful with the monthly schedule, and I thought, “Well, I’ll do that now, alternating between Madman and The Atomics.” But Mike was only interested in Madman at this point. They had lost money on Red Rocket 7. I don’t know if they broke even on Feeders and Eyes to Heaven or not. So he really wanted me to do Madman and nothing else. And I don’t blame him. He’s a businessman, and Madman was what sold, Madman was what was proven, so it would make sense to go to a monthly schedule with Madman, which was bi-monthly up until then—if that. It became more sporadic as time went on. During the time period leading up to

this, Jamie Rich—who had been Bob Schreck’s right-hand man, and who would become one of my very best friends—and Schreck left to form Oni Press with Joe Nozemack. Jamie was the heart of Red Rocket 7. There could not have been a better editor for Red Rocket 7. Jamie’s an encyclopedia of music knowledge, and he knew things that we could get excited about in music and films. He’s also a film critic and a novelist. An extremely talented guy, and I couldn’t say enough nice things about him. This is where I’ve really been blessed, 51

Previous Page: The Orphan—the leader of X-Force/X-Statix. Above: Cover art for The Atomics #11, from Mike and Laura’s AAA Pop Comics.

from Shelly Bond, Bob Schreck, Jamie Rich—just great editors. And even for a time Diana Schutz was my editor, when Jamie left to work with Oni Press. Now, because of that, and because of Mike’s lack of enthusiasm for my Atomics project, I started thinking about self-publishing. I was right there seeing everything that Schreck and Joe and Jamie were doing, and they were telling me, “It’s just a matter of doing this, and doing this, and you’re established enough that you should be able to kick if off with some success.” I talked to Diamond and other distributors, and they were willing to give me big play and articles. It just seemed like it was one of these opportunities that I shouldn’t pass up. And, since I’d recommitted myself to comics, I thought I should at least try self-publishing. So we formed AAA Pop Comics and set about publishing The Atomics. I knew that in order to self-publish, the best chance for success would be a monthly schedule. Now, at the same time, I had this remaining contract with Dark Horse for Madman; I had four issues that I owed them. So I did the last four issues of Madman Comics with Dark Horse, and this

different titles. [laughter] Somebody always had a problem with one or the other, and then, just kind of at the last second, Axel came up with X-Statix. We all actually went, “Yes! It sounds kind of cool, it’s got two Xs in it. So what does it mean?” And we all just kind of threw up our hands and said, “Who cares? It sounds cool.” We went with X-Statix. We just enjoyed the success we were having until I guess we pushed a little too hard when Peter came up with what I still think was a brilliant idea, using Princess Diana and bring her back to life. [laughter] When I say this stuff out loud, I can see why people were very offended by it, but if you saw the script, it was very respectful. It was full of great affection for this woman, who I have great affection for. Anybody that has wealth and fame and puts other people first is a hero in my book, and she did that. She had all this public humiliation and suffering, yet still managed to be this incredibly charitable, loving woman— an example of near-sainthood. In the story it was her empathy that became her power, and I was really in love with this story arc, and spent a lot of time trying to nail down her likeness, and felt I did a good job. About three issues in everything hit the fan, and we were told we couldn’t do it. There were too many people up the chain who were worried about it. We even heard from Buckingham Palace—this was after it was promoted with a doublepage spread in the distributor catalog, so it was out. The genie was out of the bottle, people had seen it, and we were told, “No, you can’t do this.” If you’ve gone a couple years being told you can do whatever you want, and keep having fun, and then all of a sudden you’re told, “No, this is wrong....” I have to say that I didn’t think it was wrong. I have great, deep thoughts and feelings about philosophy and spirituality and life and life after death, and in every way this woman’s memory was honored, with the exception of the relative degradation of being put in a comic book.

And if we’re going to stand up and say this medium has greater worth, this would have been a good opportunity to do that. Now, yeah, it’s a Marvel mutant funnybook, but there was great integrity in the intent, and it was something that I, to this day, feel very strongly about. On the surface, I think you could justify the offense that some few people were feeling about it, but if you look at human history, every time you try to make some kind of statement, whether it’s something huge like civil rights, or something small like keeping a shot in a movie, where do you stand?

Previous Page: The original, pre-touch-up cover art for X-Statix #15, complete with Diana’s tiara. Below: Tike Alicar faces off against Captain America in this selfrejected, unpublished image intended for the cover of X-Statix #23. Captain America, X-Statix ™ and ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Part 5:

Who Are You— the Mind of a Madman

MM: Catwoman came about during your run on X-Force. How did you get involved with that?

this stuff and it was so fully formed and unique and electric, I just loved it. Ed called up Darwyn and we met at a restaurant somewhere, and Darwyn and I just hit it off. We like the same things—the same movies, the same music. So I signed on, and it was just incredibly therapeutic. It was the kind of thing that I could just let my brush go, and it just seemed very natural, and I absolutely loved it.

MIKE: In regards to revamps and not being a fan, I do have some examples of revamps which I think are successful and which I celebrate, and the most obvious one, for me, would be Ed Brubaker and Darwyn Cooke’s take on Catwoman. I had seen one promo piece on it, and soon after was at a comic book show, I think San Diego, and ran into Ed Brubaker, who I’ve known since our very first WonderCon. He told me that the artist, Darwyn Cooke, was looking for an inker, and, when asked for his dream list, put me at the top. I told Ed that he was full of it, but he told me, no, really, sincerely, that Darwyn loved my work, and if he could pick any inker, he would want it to be me. MM: Did you know Darwyn’s work at that point? He hadn’t done much yet, as far as comics go—only Batman: Ego and maybe something else. MIKE: Batman: Ego was probably the only thing that I was familiar with. And I liked it, but I probably just saw it as in the Bruce Timm school of cartoonists. There would be these Batman specials that would utilize the folks that worked on the animated series, and Ego had that look. So, at the time, I didn’t look deep enough to see what was special about Darwyn’s stuff. It was successful on that level, but didn’t strike me the way that Catwoman did. I just thought that was some of the most exciting stuff I’d seen in years. MM: So they sent you several pages to look at before you signed on? MIKE: Actually, I think it was the hotel hallway where Ed and I were talking, and he opened up his bag and showed me some of the pencils, and I think right then and there I said, “If you’re telling me the truth and Darwyn wants me to be a part of this, I’m there.” Because I just looked at 63

MIKE: It is. Very much. If I didn’t have my own projects which I’m very passionate about controlling from beginning to end, I could easily see myself in an inking career, especially working with pencilers I admire. Again, therapeutic is the word I would use to describe it. It’s a nice break from the intensity of doing your own work, which can be draining in the process. It’s invigorating, but it can also be draining. Inking, for me, is just very relaxed and it just feels really nice and very comfortable. It’s just another collaboration that you can learn from. And when you’re not only inking somebody else’s art, but having them ink yours, you can see a whole new perspective. I would never hesitate to encourage somebody to collaborate as much as possible, because you’re always going to learn and grow from those collaborations. And you also develop really fun, exciting, and mutually supportive relationships in the business. That was a lot of the fun with XForce and X-Statix, when we would bring in these other amazing people and they would do their takes on characters we had created. So, whether it was Darwyn or Paul Pope on our X-Statix characters, it was always a party. And then, with Nick Dragotta, who Axel brought in. I didn’t have any of my favorite cartoonists in reserve, and Nick was able to do a fill-in. To be fair to him, it was one of these books that was due two weeks ago, and he had to do a rush job on it. Considering that and also knowing what he’s completely capable of, he didn’t show all his magic in that book. But, given the time that he had, he did an amazing job. And our son colored that issue, too, so we have a lot of affection for that particular issue.

Darwyn has become very close to our family. He’s come and visited, and we’ve sat around and I’d draw something, he’d draw something, and then we’d slide them across the table and ink each other’s drawings. It’s that kind of relationship. We’re very supportive of each other’s work, and he’s one of my favorite people, as well as one of my favorite artists. That’s definitely one of the best experiences I’ve had with a friendship with someone else in the business.

MM: After X-Statix you began working on The Golden Plates. What gave you the idea to do something that ambitious? That’s a pretty big undertaking. MIKE: I was raised Mormon, but I never really locked into the Scriptures. You know, I was brought up, you go to Sunday school and learn from The Bible—the Old Testament, the New Testament—and also The Book of

MM: How was it for you just being the inker? Is that something you enjoy doing? 64

MM: Why did you pick Image to publish the book? MIKE: Well, the reason that I hadn’t done Madman Atomic Comics was because when I did come back to Madman, I wanted to have the biggest launch possible. The Madman movie has been dangled out in front of me as a carrot for close to ten years now, and that was always an easy excuse to say, “Well, I’ll do it when the movie comes out, because then what better time could I possibly have to have a new series come out than with a major feature film?” But it finally got down to where—as patient as I am for the film, and as confident as I am that when it does get made, it will benefit from the time and will be the best it can be, and certainly under the best circumstances, the way that Robert Rodriguez works—I still was aching to get back to where I was happiest and had the most fulfillment creatively. Now, on a significance basis, The Golden Plates may be the most important thing I ever do, just as an example of an adaptive religious text. I mean, just on that basis, it holds significance. But, to be honest, working in the Madman universe, this world that I’ve created with all these characters I have affection for, is where I’m happiest, and I just couldn’t hold it off any longer. At that point the question was, are we going to self-publish this or is there a satisfying way to work with a publisher that would take the burden of all of the administrative chores that self-publishing has and give me more time to concentrate where I’m happiest—on the creative end of things. I toyed with the idea of going back to Dark Horse or working with Oni Press, who I have a great relationship with, but I also have this nice mutual admiration and respect with Erik Larsen. Of all the Image guys who broke out and became successful, Erik is the guy that has continued to work out of just pure love of comics and his Savage Dragon character, and has since become the publisher of Image. We’ve collaborated where my characters have appeared in Savage Dragon and Savage Dragon appeared in the last story arc in The Atomics. I also heard about the way that they work with creators, where they just take one fee for the administrative duties on

projects, so it was a natural step to call up Erik and, first off, ask him if he thought it would be a good fit. He was excited about it, which made me more excited about it. As we kept talking over time, he hooked me up with his right-hand man, Eric Stephenson, and among the group there were all of these ideas for what they wanted to do with it, promotion-wise. And on paper, just the money that we would save from working with a publisher, it just all added up to being the perfect place at the perfect time. At this point, almost a year in, it’s been ideal. I’ve not had a single complaint. Any problems with production have only come from me. [laughs] 73

Previous Page: Spidey and Gwen—the “real” girlfriend. Above: Mike’s cover pencils for Madman Atomic Comics #1.

Above: A two-page spread from Madman Atomic Comics #1, featuring our hero and much of his supporting cast and past guest-stars. Next Page: Inside Frank Einstein’s brain! Opening splash page of Madman Atomic Comics #2. Madman and all related characters ™ and ©2008 Michael Allred. Big Guy ™ and ©2008 Frank Miller and Geof Darrow. Hellboy ™ and ©2008 Mike Mignola. Savage Dragon ™ and ©2008 Erik Larsen.

Everybody on their end has just been the best. And also, one of my favorite people that I’ve ever worked throughout my career is my buddy and longtime editor Jamie Rich, and we’re collaborating in that relationship again. And then Joe Keatinge’s marketing and all the swell production folks. It’s just perfect on every level. MM: Let’s talk about the storyline a bit. Obviously you wanted to reestablish, for people who may not have read Madman before, what the series is about. The first arc opens with this weird dream world, where you’re not completely sure what’s going on. What were you working towards in the first storyline in exploring just who Frank Einstein is? MIKE: I had wanted to create the definitive Madman comic, because I’ll be the first person to admit that, from its original concept with the two-color series going into Madman 74

Adventures, which was Tintin-inspired, and then into Madman Comics, which was an ongoing, there were different adjustments made. And there’s also the work on at least three different drafts of a screenplay, trying to define the definitive Madman for a feature film. After feeling like that code was cracked while collaborating on the current draft with George Huang, I now have a clear vision of what I want to do. At that point it was, “How do I establish the true reality of the world that I want, and how do I put the characters in place, setting them up to have the ongoing series that I want, and the relationships that I want?” The first series had a dreamlike quality, and because it had a raw feel, as my style was in its infancy—in addition to the two-color format, which gave it kind of a dreamy feel—I felt I was able to do this recap and decide what really happened and what didn’t happen and what was part of Frank’s mental problems. [laughs] I was able to kind of

Art Gallery

Madman and all related characters â&#x201E;˘ and ÂŠ2008 Michael Allred.

Above: Cover art for the Red Rocket 7 trade paperback collection. Next Page Top: Wraparound cover art for the Oni Press Summer Vacation Supercolor Fun Special. Next Page Bottom: Spider-Man promotional art. Page 92: Doop versus Thor! Who will win?!? Cover art for X-Statix #25. Page 93: Talk about going out with a bang, X-Statix faced off against the Avengers in a five-issue, all-out extravaganza.

Page 84: Madman sketchbook drawings. Page 85: Cover art for Red Rocket 7 #6. Page 86: Cover art for Madman Yearbook ’95. Page 87: Self-rejected, unpublished cover art intended for Madman Atomic Comics #1. Page 88: Mike’s inks and pencil tones for page 3 of Madman Atomic Comics #3. Page 89: Dance, monkey! Madman faces off against a cosmic monkey.

Fantastic Four, Impossible Man â&#x201E;˘ and ÂŠ2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Modern Masters:

Mike Allred A few short years into his blossoming career, Mike Allred struck just the right chord when he introduced his hip, Popinspired creation Madman! The series won the Harvey Award for Best New Series, and from there Allred was well on his way, going on to create The Atomics and the critically acclaimed Red Rocket 7, as well as illustrate the fan-favorite XForce/X-Statix series for Marvel Comics. So pull on your go-go boots and do the watusi — it's time to explore the weird and wonderfully way-out worlds of Mike Allred! This book features a profusely-illustrated career-encompassing interview with Allred, and a full-color section spotlighting the exquisite coloring of Mike's wife and partner, the award-winning Laura Allred! Plus, there’s a lengthy art gallery and tons of rare and unpublished art by a true Modern Master: Mike Allred! (120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $14.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=95_70&products_id=632