Rough Stuff #9 by TwoMorrows Publishing

No. 9 SUMMER 2008

$6.95

Celebrating the ART of Creating Comics!

Featuring

JOE JUSKO MEL RUBI SCOTT WILLIAMS ROB HAYNES FOUR Interviews! FOUR Galleries!

ALSO IN THIS ISSUE

INKERS: WHO NEEDS ’EM?! by Bob McLeod ROUGH CRITIQUE

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Volume 1, Number 9 Summer 2008

Celebrating the ART of Creating Comics! EDITOR

Bob McLeod PUBLISHER

John Morrow DESIGNER

Michael Kronenberg PROOFREADERS John Morrow and Eric Nolen-Weathington COVER ARTIST

Joe Jusko

CIRCULATION DIRECTOR Bob Brodsky, Cookiesoup Productions

ROUGH STUFF INTERVIEW 3

Rob Haynes

Joe Jusko

Mel Rubi

Scott Williams

SPECIAL THANKS Rob Haynes Joe Jusko Mel Rubi

ROUGH STUFF FEATURE 56

Inkers, Who Needs ’Em?! Bob McLeod

Scott Williams Tim Townsend Rudy Vasquez Ruben Azcona

ROUGH STUFF™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614. Bob McLeod, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: ROUGH STUFF, c/o Bob McLeod, Editor, P.O. Box 63, Emmaus, PA 10849-2203. E-mail: mcleod.bob@gmail.com. Fourissue subscriptions: $26 Standard US, $36 First Class US, $44 Canada, $60 Surface International, $72 Airmail International. Please send subscription orders and funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial office. Central cover art by Joe Jusko. All characters are copyright Marvel Comics. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © 2008 Bob McLeod and TwoMorrows Publishing. ROUGH STUFF is a TM of TwoMorrows Publishing. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

ISSN 1931-9231

ROUGH STUFF DEPARTMENTS 2

Scribblings From The Editor Bob McLeod

Cover Stories Joe Jusko reveals the process of creating a cover.

PrePro Art by Rob Haynes, Joe Jusko, Scott Williams, and Mel Rubi, done before they turned pro.

Rough Critique Editor Bob McLeod critiques an aspiring penciler’s sample page.

Rough Talk Comments and opinions from our readers.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

SCRIBBLINGS FROM THE EDITOR:

elcome! I hope you’ve been enjoying Rough Stuff as much as I have these past two years. There are so many super-talented artists drawing comics and I’ve really enjoyed putting these issues together. Although our main focus will always be primarily showing you the preliminary art of comics, some peo-

ple have asked for more reading text in Rough Stuff, so I decided to break format a bit this time, and bring you an interview with every artist, in addition to their comments on their art. When I was interviewing Tim Townsend for issue #7, he mentioned what a big fan he was of artist Rob Haynes. So I thought, who better to interview an artist than their biggest fan? And since Tim’s an artist himself, it’s a double treat! He was a bit nervous about it, having never interviewed anyone before, but he went after it with gusto, and I’m sure you’ll agree he hit a home run his first at-bat. I wasn’t very familiar with Rob Haynes, myself. It’s cool to see an artist throw out convention and totally go his own way. I’m sure you were as wowed by our beautiful cover this issue as I was. Joe Jusko has been painting covers and other comic-related scenes for decades, and just keeps getting better. It’s so great to see an artist who just knows his stuff cold, and serves it up so hot. Joe’s a big John Buscema fan (who isn’t?) and really did up his famous Silver Surfer #1 cover scene in style. Not that he needs Big John’s help to come up with dramatic images. He shows us plenty of his own in this issue, and also shows us the rough stuff underneath the smooth finish, and talks all about it with me in our second interview. Speaking of hot, I was introduced to artist Mel Rubi’s work by his art rep, Ruben Azcona. He was telling me Mel was one of the few newer artists whose pencils still gave an inker a lot of room to contribute, rather than trace. It’s great to see that in a new artist, and it was a pleasure to talk with him a bit. Only trouble is, Mel’s art was being printed directly from the pencils! It seems that practice is becoming more common every year, and I decided to tackle this controversial subject this issue with an article titled “Inkers: Who Needs ’Em??” I’m squarely in the camp that wants inkers to stick around, but you can’t ignore the clouds on the horizon. Well, there’s at least one inker I think we need. I was very happy to interview the man so many other inkers consistently name as the inker they most admire, Scott Williams. One terrific benefit of interviewing an inker is that not only do we get to see his impressive inks, but also the pencils of the artists he inked over! Double the pleasure double the fun, as they say. Then we finish up with my Rough Critique of aspiring artist Rudy Vasquez, who I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see working for the majors real soon. We close this issue with some of your letters of comment. But as usual, there’s never enough room for everything in these pages, so be sure to check out the Rough Stuff pages of my web site at http://www.bobmcleod.com/roughstuff.htm And don’t forget that Twomorrows is now offering this magazine in digital form as a PDF download at http://www.twomorrows.com, including many images in full color, for just $2.95 (free for subscribers!). Rob Haynes and Scott Williams don’t have web sites, but be sure to visit Joe Jusko at http://www.joejusko.com, and Mel Rubi at www.comicbookartgallery.com. Bob McLeod Editor mcleod.bob@gmail.com www.bobmcleod.com PO Box 63 Emmaus, PA 18049

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

INTERVIEW

ROB HAYNES I think I had just finished about five or six characters from

ROB HAYNES

Tim Townsend’s commission list, that I wanted to hand to you all at once. And I remember thinking that they might not

By Tim Townsend

seem like the most

n an industry driven by trends and big name-artists there exists a subculture, one that flies under the radar of the average fan but is well known amongst its peers. This group consists of artists who, for one reason or another, have avoided the limelight or do not have countless volumes of high profile work on the shelves. This group also happens to contain some of the best talent our art form has to offer. Many brandname profes-

exciting characters of the bunch, so I added in this Hellboy to spice it up.

sionals have been intensely influenced by these individuals and regularly refer to them and their work for inspiration and knowledge. One of these quiet geniuses goes by the name of Rob Haynes. Rob has not only influenced an entire generation of artists but has also pioneered a particular style and approach to comic book illustration that has caught on like wildfire. There are those who have been influenced by his work without even realizing it, having been influenced by someone who was influenced by Rob. We [comic artists] are an incestuous lot. In 1998 I had the distinct pleasure of having Rob and his partner in crime, colorist David Self, move into my home as roommates, having been introduced by mutual friend and artist, Casey Jones. For the next four years I witnessed, first hand, Rob’s coming-of-age. I watched him find his voice right before my eyes. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, it changed and influenced me as an artist forever. Rob is not a shy person, but is a man of relatively few words unless he has something to say. He is motivated by neither fame nor money. He is, quite simply, driven to draw “cool pictures.” I realize that a good interviewer does not interject themselves into the subject matter. The focus should be solely on the interviewee. The nature of this conversation with Rob as well as the rich past we share lent itself to personal anecdotes and familiar insights on my part. I wanted to let you, the reader, eavesdrop on one of our classic late-night four-hour blab sessions. SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROB HAYNES This is a piece I did for Randy and Laura Martin because I heard I might be able to trade them for a copy of the hardcover Authority book she colored. I’ve probably dragged my feet too long to get a copy of that book, but I haven’t finished the Edward Scissorhands picture I did for Randy yet, and I have this stupid idea that I need to send them together. Anyway, this is typi-

TIM TOWNSEND: Tell us a little about yourself,

cally how I work. I

Rob. When and where were you born? Who

started with a doodle

were you as a child that put you on the road to

of these two lovers

creativity and, more in particular, comic books?

fighting back-to-back,

ROB HAYNES: Hey bud! I’m a ’70s kid from

and just kept adding

Charlotte, North Carolina. My mother and father

chaos from there.

were both writing and voicing in radio, and my father created and played a character on TV

BOB McLEOD

called, “Dead Ernest.” He put on face-paint

Laying out this type

with fangs and hopped out of a coffin every

of complex scene

week to host horror movies on local stations in

really baffled me

Charlotte and Atlanta, I think. So, I was around

when I was starting

colorful, creative folks from the beginning. So

out. Where does one

every day I can remember as a child, I was fas-

begin? Neal Adams

cinated with larger-than-life characters with

explained it to me:

superhero costumes and superpowers. Still am.

Decide on the viewpoint and place the center of interest. Then, as I studied John Buscema, I

TOWNSEND: Under those circumstances, how could you be anything other than a comic book artist? That’s fantastic! Which came first, the drawing or the comic books? Usually one seems to lead to the other but not always in the same order.

learned to design

HAYNES: My love for comics definitely came

everything using

first. I drew about as often as any other kid growing up,

who would choreograph ninja fights with me on the roof

diagonals, with large

but a handful of my childhood friends were more artistic

of my garage which always ended with one of us getting

shapes balancing

and polished than I was. I desperately wanted to have the

pinned and suchlike. Also, when you get silly ideas in

small shapes. Finally,

skill, but didn’t have the patience for it. I was more into

your head that everyone around you is better than you at

as I studied Tom

playing outside any chance I got back then. I played

drawing, then you might not put as much time into it.

Palmer, I learned to

some sports, but I also like playing “war” with all the

Know what I mean?

balance blacks

neighborhood kids and their toy guns (my step-dad didn’t

throughout the scene.

allow toy guns for some reason), and I had a girlfriend

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

So, I was sure that I would either become a lawyer or an actor. I took some law classes in high school and loved

went to the Outward

ROB HAYNES

years. But I was also at the comic store every

Bound School in the

These were some of

week. A friend of the family who collected

****ing steep North

the first few images

comics, Ruth Castleberry, set up a trip for me to

Carolina Mountains. I

from the animated

Marvel Comics in New York when I was about

was put with a group of

it, and acted in stage plays for about six or seven

15 years old. I did the tour and got

kids who really wanted to be

some free comics out of

there. Some of them applied for

the spinning

scholarships. Me, I was miserable for most of it. I think I was cured of my love for the outdoors. No tents; no cabins; just hike every day with close to

if Flash and Adobe Streamline could handle the style I was finishing my drawings, without degrading the

sixty pounds on your back, and wherever

line quality. Even

we stopped at night, hang up a blue plastic

though I was inking

tarp over ten of us plus the ten million bugs

rack in the lobby — I have

sequence I did to see

most of my work with

for about a month. Actually we all did a lot of

a simple dead line,

great things there, but I just had a typical teenager

that Daredevil pose

attitude about the whole thing.

was one of the first

that comic rack now, thanks to you Tim — and got

Long story short, I got my attitude adjusted. And, I

times I felt that I didn’t

a quick education about how comics were made at

learned maybe my best personal lesson about drawing.

leave too many extra

Marvel. I never thought of it as a real job until then; a cool

We were all spending a 48-hour period solo — no con-

job. But I didn’t have the skill or the practice, or the drive.

tact with each other at all — in some very dense forest. I

I got the drive very soon after in an unlikely place. I

was almost always able to keep myself entertained with

think it was the next summer after visiting Marvel when I

my own thoughts as a kid, but not for 48 hours in a row. We were allowed pencil and paper, but no music or books. And, all I could think was that I wish I could draw well enough to keep myself entertained. Writing alone

shapes and lines out of fear that there wasn’t enough there.

just wasn’t cutting it. It was frustrating. So after that experience at age 15, I really put all my thought and effort into learning how to draw. I sort of thought I would have to explain that lawyers and actors lie for money, and that drawing stories might be a little less dishonest. My parents were mostly hands-off because they both had careers, but on this I received encouragement from them. They even paid for my first trip to San Diego Con a few years later after I graduated high school so I could get advice from editors and artists. TOWNSEND: I love the fact that, of all the various sources of inspiration and stimuli, the one that affected you the most, Outward Bound, had the least to do with art or comics. I can relate in a roundabout way having gone through a very structured and militant

training in art school. When you’re pushed to your limits, things have a way of falling

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROB HAYNES These were just various stages of the process when drawing the Daredevil: Ninja covers. There’s a vague sequence of events from one cover to the next, that’s related to the story. These two characters are trying to steal Stick’s “stick” from Daredevil, and he stops them only to team up with them against an angry horde of ninja who also want the stick. Part of it was to be provocative, but I wanted to show the girl still trying to pickpocket a similar weapon to foreshadow something specific at the end of the story. Daredevil TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

into perspective very quickly and deeply. Its all about attitude. So now that you’ve found yourself on “the path,” gotten your head straight, if you will, what did you dive into? Where did you draw your inspiration? Who were your early influences and why? HAYNES: Yeah, before I got that kick in the ass, I think I was confused about how I should tackle drawing. John Byrne was the perfect comic book artist when I was a kid. He could draw any superhero book, and

give it a definitive look—the definitive look. So, I thought looking at guys like him and John Buscema from the book How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way, was the way to go. Looking at their art was fun, but trying to draw like them was very frustrating for me, so I didn’t stick with it. Probably for the best, because I would have developed a lot of habits without any logic at that age. Being a little older when I started practicing every day, I had just enough common sense to find something that suited me and the way I see things. Two influences: Rick Leonardi and Mike Mignola. I think

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

design, is arguably the hardest style to pull off effectively.

ROB HAYNES

eyes are open or closed, awake or dreaming, real life and

There is no rendering and no shadows to hide behind.

This is the first of a few

imagined, good and bad, art and non-art, blah blah blah. But

One little misstep and, BAM, there it is for all to see.

Batman/Hellboy pieces

we’re probably influenced by everything we see whether our

as far as looking specifically at comic book art and trying to

Knowing you as well as I do, I see this mathematical,

I did for Tim

figure out where I fit in and how to do it, those two guys are

no-nonsense approach in not only your art but in how

Townsend’s collection.

my influences at an atomic level.

you approach life in general. Would you say that your art

The reason Batman is

influenced your life or vice versa? What do you take

holding what looks

placement of shapes more than details and beautiful render-

from each and apply to the other?

like a Bat-tampon

ing. I think Rick Leonardi’s pencil art has seen more fearless,

HAYNES: Uh oh. It’s like I’m right back on the leather

instead of a Bat-a-

artistic inkers than any other. (You, Scott Williams, Kent

couch in your office — “philosophizin’ and sh**” — while

rang, is this is actually

Williams, Jesse Delperdang, P. Craig Russell, Dan Green,

you sit in your chair and decipher my BS,

part one of a two part

As far as “why,” it’s because I respond to the size and

Bill Sienkiewicz, Terry Austin, Al Williamson, Mark Pennington, Joe Rubinstein, and plenty of others.) All inkers that any penciler would be lucky to work with. I’ve seen his inked art range from very rendered and dirty, to very graphic and clean because of these different approaches. But his shapes, composition, and dynamic poses always remain intact and salient. And with Mike Mignola, it’s a similar thing. Great shapes

simultaneously inking the XMen. As soon

sequence where he throws it onto the floor like a flash-bang grenade, as he and Hellboy leap toward the camera. I’ll have to look for that second drawing sometime,

and composition. Really smart problem solving. I’d never

and finish

even paid attention to how well he places shadows until I

it.

read one of his interviews titled “The Man Who Spots Black” and I’ve always liked the way they both draw character poses. They’re completely different approaches from each other, but both of them gave me a lot of insight on how to draw people doing what I needed them to do... without completely mystifying me. I just feel like everything I see from them makes perfect sense, without being boring or too obvious. TOWNSEND: Mignola is the master of spotting shadows.... amongst other things. It’s my understanding, although this could be one of those comic-related urban legends (apologies to Mike if I’m telling tales out of school), that Mike used to copy Frazetta drawings focusing on the dark areas in order to figure out how to spot blacks in terms of layout and design. I can’t think of two better artists to be influenced by, Mignola and Leonardi, at those precious early stages. You mention the term “problem solving.” In my own mind, when I think of your art, that is precisely the term that comes to mind. You have an almost mathematical approach to your work: A+B=C. You make it look so obvious, so easy, when the fact of the matter is that the way you work, using open, simple shapes with solid layout and page

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

as the interview is done, I’ll

ROB HAYNES

make the check out to Dr.

Hawkeye

Townsend. Anyhow,

Not much to say here, other than I like to give characters

playing to your strengths is sometimes the best way to overcome your weaknesses. One example given was that the Chinese gold medal ping-pong team’s best player

yeah... what you call

had no backhand in his arsenal. Only played forehand.

no-nonsense, I

The premise being: “Find out what you do well and do

would have called

more of it. Find out what you don’t do well and stop

sheer laziness at

doing it.” That doesn’t sit well with everyone, I know. But

one point. I

I have other things in life I want to do without sitting at a

something

was so

appropriate to

desk all day long, frustrated with my drawing.

des-

I just had to let go of this dumb idea that if I didn’t have

perate to find a

lots of extras in my art, then I was lazy and inferior. Casey

of something

finishing style that

and some of my other pals helped me see that. And talking

appropriate.

I could be confident

to him the other day, it reminded me that Adobe had a small

do if I can think

with. I experimented

hand in it as well. Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Streamline, and

with different levels of

such like. Photoshop let me experiment and color my shad-

rendering and detail and

ows, so they wouldn’t be so stark and distracting. And

even tried a style with more

Streamline helped me make the decision to ink everything

black shadows than actual

with one dead line weight. I envy kids who are born in a time

lines for a bit. I’ve heard

where computers can let them find their art style more easily.

that, too, about Mike and

In my day, computer screens were either green or amber.

Frazetta — don’t know if

They mostly had letters on them, and not much art. “Your

it’s true — but it prob-

youth is behind you,” as the

ably would have

proctologist says.

helped me to just trace

ROB HAYNES

some Frazetta art. I always

Flash

thought I knew exactly where to place my

I believe this might be the first time we tried the Disney animation paper we got from Phil Noto, to see if it would hold my marker colors

TOWNSEND: Ah yes... the good old days of the leather couch and

blacks, and feather or crosshatch my grays...

a Captain Morgan’s and Coke.

but in ink — no matter who inked it — I was

Didn’t we actually figure out how to

crushed. There were so many pieces of art

fix the world at one point? Anyway,

where I cringed when it was time to actually

there’s lots to cover in these

fill in all the black areas, because I knew the piece would change drastically.

comments. I remember when Casey originally turned

Pencil is gray and erasable, but ink is black and

me on to your work. I had seen a lot

permanent... duh. I struggled through this problem

of what you and Casey did together, but

without looking like

with the rendering and the shadows for probably

not being that familiar with your work

Kindergarten-art

eight years before I changed gears.

alone, I was just attributing the majority

streaks everywhere. Success! Also, I

Working with Casey Jones on maybe a thousand

of it to Casey... which was probably an

pages really snapped me out of it. I drew the layouts and

apt assessment anyway. You two really

think The Flash was

he fixed and finished the art. A thousand pages might not

did gel amazingly well together. At the

the first comic book

seem like a lot to most professionals, but that’s a lot of pages

point where I began to familiarize myself

I ever read. And, I

to draw with ultimate freedom. No concern whatsoever about

like to draw people

any insecurities I had. I trust Casey to make all the right moves

toward polished, pretty, professional comic book art. And he

with your work, you had already begun to move in the direction you’re speaking of. I do recall looking at some of the older work that

trusts me to iron out the storytelling and camera angles.

you’re mentioning, the work with the rendering

“We beat the system,” as he says.

and heavier blacks, and thinking to myself that it

Thanks to comments from Casey and anyone else

simply didn’t need the extra “stuff.” Once I went to

who saw my layouts, I realized that I had a solution

your web site and saw the direction you were

to my problem with rendering and placing blacks:

heading, I instantly saw something really

don’t do it. At all. I think I read somewhere that

unique that excited me. I wasn’t able to artic-

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

“The roommates,”

ulate it at that point but I did see it. Once you really began to hit your stride, something

from left to right:

amazing began to happen; something I don’t think you, me,

David Self, Dokyung

or David (Self) was aware of at the time. Your work, your

Lee (David’s future

approach, began to influence artists from coast to coast. It

wife), Rob Haynes,

literally caught on like wildfire. Not only did new artists

Tim Townsend, and

begin to emulate you, established professionals began to

Molly Townsend.

integrate what you were doing in to their own work. What

Circa 2001.

was even more amazing is that this happened despite the fact that you had a relatively small amount of work on the shelves at the time. As it was happening, I don’t think you were as aware of it as some of the rest of us but it seemed like every month we would see a new book or two that was very obviously “Rob Haynesed.” You tended to poo-poo the idea when we would bring it to your attention, but certainly now, years later, after this style you more or less pioneered has become as common place as the “Jim Lee movement,” you can see the effect your work has had. Are you able to accept this now, or are you still convinced it was all just a big coincidence? HAYNES: It’s all just a big coincidence. TOWNSEND: I sort of knew you were going to say that. I’m playing things out in my mind chronologically as we go along. As I recall, it was around this time that you and David Self were working on that Daredevil animated Flash short, and soon after, the Captain America animated shorts for Marvel. That stuff, at the time, was cutting edge. It was absolutely brilliant work by both you and David. As far as I was concerned, you might as well have been doing magic. Care to expound on the genesis of those projects? What were your working methods? Can you supply us with some links so our readers can see one or two of them? HAYNES: Yeah, some of that animation is still up at www.lockblok.com/illuminati I doubt Marvel still has any of the complete Captain America episodes up anymore. I think that was over a decade ago. And yeah, that stuff was magic. David was the magician. I met him in the

friends and I would animate little half-inch stick figures and Millennium Falcons in the margins of any thick paperback books we could find. We didn’t have portable gaming systems back then, so we flipped pages and watched our own animated ninja and space battles. So I had some sort of experience with the process of animation, but not much. Believe it or not, we spent no more than a week creating that Daredevil animated sequence; not bad for two guys who were almost starting from scratch. We did it for fun. It happened to get us work, but that was definitely not the intention. We didn’t even have our credits on it. We just wanted to see if we could do it, and show our buddies. I know it eventually reached much farther than that, and so did a lot of the still-image art that was on the same site. So, I should clarify where I’m coming from about the folks who might have emulated what I was doing. I know it’s not really a coincidence. But, I definitely don’t believe it’s comparable to what Whilce Portacio and Jim Lee did. Those guys influenced

A young Rob Haynes

the way so many other artists draw faces, poses, splash

with his father, then

pages, and they offered very, very functional, intricate

TV celebrity, Dead

and — at the time — unique rendering with dual-lighting

Ernest.

early ’90s in Savannah, GA along with D. Alexander Gregory, Jason Martin, and Andrew Robinson. David was majoring at SCAD in Architecture and he explained to me what virtual reality was, before I’d ever heard anyone even talking about it. Now, he’s a level designer on million+ selling video games for the Xbox 360. When David saw the layouts I was doing for Casey, he gave me a lot of encouragement. David purchased the Flash application when it was still fairly new, and we thought it would be fun to animate something because early versions of Flash and Adobe Streamline could easily preserve the dead lines I was using. In third grade, my

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROB HAYNES Sketches I don’t enjoy sketching on paper or digitally unless it’s specifically for a finished piece or there is absolutely nothing else to do. Instead, I am usually sketching in my head while I’m driving around town, people-watching, watching TV, playing video games,

that was represented consistently

and suchlike. When I

with the “Scott Williams wiggle” on one side of a black

when less practiced artists use the “West Coast” style cre-

was in high school, I

shape, and parallel lines with some cross-hatching on the

ated by Whilce, Jim and Scott. I’ve told you, I invite anyone

sketched on all of my

other. When that style became popular, different artists pro-

to try what I’m doing. Not like they need my invitation. It’s

class notes as a

duced very similar work, in my opinion. We can certainly tell

just a dead line. I didn’t invent it. I want folks to try what I’m

memory-aid (for

them apart, but I think a lot of the shapes and anatomy were

doing because it’s fun. But, there’s no need to have my work

some reason, I

just as similar to the rendering. The exceptions were guys

sitting out when they do it. Just do your own work with your

remember detailed

like Mark Silvestri, Dale Keown, Travis Charest, and a few

own anatomy and details, and finish them with one line-

others who I remember took what they needed, while stay-

weight. I’m sure you’ll see something that’s yours, not mine.

speeches, lessons, and stories better if I’m finishing random drawings while they talk). But, occasionally I’ll sketch on

ing true to how they really draw underneath. I said it then, and here it is again: Anybody who saw

and personal level, unlike what can happen

Actually, since the last time you and I discussed this years ago... I did run into something more like what you’re

what I was doing, and decided to do it themselves, usually

talking about, I think. There are probably ten to 20 different

wound up with a much different result from me. All I’m doing

ways that I place and delineate the anatomy on arms, legs

is drawing the way I’ve been drawing for maybe 20 years

and faces when I’m just at the sketching stage. Depending

now. But, I’m delineating it with simple lines that don’t hide

paper now if it’s for a

much. So when someone

sketch-section in a

does the same thing I’m

published book or for

doing with their lines, I think

a web site. That’s

you’re getting a much more

why most of these

accurate look at how they

were drawn.

really draw at an atomic

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

on the character, their pose, their size and shape, I’ll have

ROB HAYNES

Otherwise, where’s the fun?

different kneecaps, elbows, noses,

Spidey

chins, shoulders, etc. But, the

TOWNSEND: But those Captain America

way I draw torsos — espe-

shorts still exist somewhere, correct? I’d

cially on men — is very

hate to think they’re lost to the ages. You

specific, and took me

should put

quite some effort to

them up on

“invent.” It’s the core

your site.

Spider-Man is my favorite fictional character of all time. I did those two pieces for pay, but I probably would have done

of my figure drawing

them for free, even if I

a lot of the time. And, when I saw someone

I seriously doubt

were starving and

else using it for their finished art, it definitely

Marvel would mind.

living out of my car.

creeped me out. I knew it came from looking at

They should real-

my art, because of who it was.

ly be seen.

Soon after, I think I felt a little of what you’re getting at; that I had directly influenced the way someone else draws and understands what

Even

they are drawing. It was only one guy, but it

now I think they

was enough to have an effect on me; nega-

would hold up wonderfully.

tive at first, then very positive. Still, I think people should push themselves to construct their own vocabulary of

I’m glad we have a chance to discuss David (Self) here. I don’t think one can have an

shapes once they become professional comic book artists.

in-depth conversation about the Rob Haynes of this era

Easier said than done. And, I know there are editors and

without also mentioning David Self. You guys were sort of

specific jobs that require your staying on-model. But gener-

like John Lennon and Paul McCartney in terms of your col-

ally in comics, it seems like most jobs aren’t so strict that

laborative working styles. I’ve always felt so damned

you have to ape someone else’s art. Their style, maybe, but

blessed to have been witness to that time of artistic growth

not everything down to the bone.

between the two of you. I know that just being there with

Now if you want to talk about people swiping storytelling

you guys helped me tremendously just through sheer

and panel sequences including poses and cam-

osmosis. Many of the same things I’ve said about you in

era angles, that’s pretty damn

this interview in terms of your influence on so many artists

tacky. Stealing poses from anyone besides yourself is

can be said for David in terms of colorists. He was really one of the pioneers of the whole

BOB McLEOD

lame enough, but please leave

“less is more” movement. How

Spider-Man is my

their storytelling ideas alone. Do your

would you say working so

favorite superhero to

damn job, I says. There are plenty of generic and

closely with David over those

draw, too. Take a tip

imaginative rendering styles that are proven to

years has influenced you, your

from Rob and use a lot

work. If you don’t naturally stumble onto one, I

art, and your working methods?

of extreme foreshort-

HAYNES: I’m not sure if the

ening when posing

to invent something so cool it distracts

Cap episodes still exist. I

Spidey. More than

from the subject matter. It was for me,

think that stuff had some

most superheroes, his

anyway. I think Brian Stelfreeze told me

really good elements. The

that one time they got so carried away

audio production was

in their studio years ago, that some-

great. And, David worked

one invented a rendering technique

his magic with the truckload of

think it’s a fool’s errand to waste time trying

that looked ultimately like steel-

art I kept shoveling him. But, there

anatomy can be a bit flexible, since he’s more limber than most muscle guys, and the dynamic spi-

belted radial tire tread. Don’t do

was a mismatch of media there.

that. That’s not the job. I believe

Essentially, I was hired to draw

dery poses are more

the job is creating your own

and animate the visuals for old

important than worry-

poses, and figuring out your own

radio plays. But, radio is the

solutions to visual storytelling problems.

“theater of the mind.” So,

ing about realistic movement.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

writing and directing. And second, my manners. Which — you’ve met David’s parents — I guess I owe that to his folks, as well. TOWNSEND: Yes, the Selfs are fantastic people. And I echo your sentiments on David. He’s easily one of the smartest, most insightful people I’ve ever known. Spending those years with the two of you were easily some of the best of my life. I don’t think anyone could have orchestrated a better scenario than the one we had here at the house. Good times, indeed. I think the next career milestone would have to have been the Daredevil: Ninja mini-series you did with Brian

ROB HAYNES

the expositional voice acting along with the demonstrative

Bendis. Man, what a fantastic package that was. It’s still a fan

Here’s a case of

sound effects made my job redundant. We were all trying

fave to this day. I do, however, recall that you were a little

looking back and

something ahead of its time, with regards to the Internet. It’s

footloose and fancy free with the script. I seem to recall

seeing that I was

fun to be one of the first. But it’ll be a relief next time around,

Bendis sort of disavowing himself from the final product, but

now that others have also tested the waters and audiences

at the same time, acknowledging what an amazing job you

have the right expectations for what they’re going to see.

did. He still seemed to like it, he just didn’t feel that it’s what

David and I have known each other for almost two

he wrote. To the best of my knowledge, this isn’t a delicate

close to finding my current style long before I ever actually did. I started almost all of my drawings

decades, so that Daredevil animation and the Cap stuff was

subject but I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m putting you on the

just a blip on the radar, even if it was a very big blip. Big

spot. Care to elaborate on the whole DD: Ninja experience?

enough for me to have an emotional reaction the first time I

HAYNES: Yeah, Joe Quesada set me up with that mini-

this way, but I ren-

saw DD running on the screen, with some music and sound

series after he and Jimmy Palmiotti wrote an issue of

dered everything

effects. Like I said, I’m a ’70s kid. It was powerful for me to

Daredevil for me. So, I knew I was in good hands. Bendis

with lots of extra

see my finished art jumping around and throwing punches on

and I had a great conversation over the phone before the

lines. I still think

any sort of TV screen. And I owe so much of that to David. I’m

story was even started, about the screenwriters David

it looks pretty cool.

very fortunate to have him as one of my best friends.

Mammet and Richard Price and screenwriting teacher

It’s just that penciling

David is probably the smartest person I know. He’s also

and inking stories

very well informed, so it’s easy to learn something new every

Robert McKee. He told me we “wouldn’t be doing anything as highfalutin’” as what those guys do. Which was fine

that way takes up to

day when you’re friends with someone like that. His approach

with me because the issue of DD that I’d just finished had

ten times longer.

to art is actually very different from mine. He thinks a lot more

a very serious tone to it, dealing with suicide and death. I

in terms of light, shadow and some color from the beginning,

was thinking we could do something fun like, Kill Bill: Vol.

where I decide those things much later. Whenever he starts

1, before there was such a movie as Kill Bill. He probably

coloring one of my pages, the first thing he does is look for

had something similar in mind. But I think Bendis was so

anywhere I’ve drawn a light source... if I bothered to draw a

prolific and in-demand right from the beginning of his

light source. I’d say his biggest influence on me isn’t really my

career that we had a little trouble getting on the same

art at all. It’s probably two things. First, my critical mind. We’ve

page later on. He thought I was a photo-reference artist

re-watched our favorite movies countless times, examining the

who would work from his layouts. And I thought he would

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

share the details of the entire story with me, before I start-

my line art on real paper. But, the computer is an amazing

ed drawing it. So, we didn’t see eye-to-eye on every panel.

tool even for the simple coloring style I have.

Yet, I still think those books turned out pretty well. I’ll look at them maybe once a year, and find ideas that were pure

TOWNSEND: For the record, my handwriting always

instinct back then, that I want to take further. And honestly,

looks like a first grader. Yeah, those drawings are some

however Bendis feels about that project, I couldn’t have

of my prize possessions. We amassed quite a few of

pulled it off without his dialogue.

them over those years. A few of them are featured in this article. Anyone wishing to take a look at them all can go

TOWNSEND: Indeed. I think it was a case of the whole

to the web page of my original art collection at

being greater than the sum of its parts. As I am reliving all

http://comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=2122.

of this in my mind, I am reminded of a certain deal you and

Just scroll down to the galleries titled “Rob Haynes.”

I struck involving rent and commissions. In retrospect, I

You’ll see all of these beautiful drawings and many more

think it’s one of the smartest ideas I’ve ever had... if I do

contained therein. Regarding that list, if you ever work

say so myself. Care to fill the readers in on the details?

your way towards the end of it I told you I plan on pub-

These [next five

HAYNES: Next to doing layouts, that’s probably one of

lishing a book called “The Big-Ass Book of Rob

images] weren’t the

the best jobs I’ve ever had. Thank you, thank you, thank

Drawings.” I’ll do it too! Now get crackin’!

first sample pages I

you! Doing quick layouts to problem-solve the visual sto-

I am now going to skip ahead a bit. A few years later,

ROB HAYNES

did. But these got me

rytelling in a script is so much fun for me, but I also love

at DC, you signed on to do a project called Kid Amazo.

the most work. I was

drawing super-heroes posing for the camera when

When your name is mentioned, possibly the most fre-

living in my car for

there’s no story going on. And if I remember correctly,

quently asked question that will be asked is “Whatever

about a month when I

You gave me a list of about fifty or sixty Marvel and DC

happened to Rob’s Kid Amazo project?.” Now is your

drew these pages. I

characters that looked like it was written with the glee

chance to tell your fans and the world. Take us through

and handwriting of a first grader. Anytime I didn’t want to

that project from its inception to its dubious finale.

pay rent, I just drew three of them. I’ve still got that list

HAYNES: From inception to dubious finale, huh? Well I

pinned up in my office where I live now, and there are

don’t know every detail, just what happened on my end,

four more of those characters I need to color in marker.

and just what little I was told. Originally I got a call from

That’s where I get stuck these days. Coloring in

an editor at DC to do a hardcover Justice League of

Photoshop has spoiled me. I’ll probably always finish

America book titled “Kid Amazo.” It was

showered at my girlfriend’s parents’ house every day while they were out. I drew these pages on their dinner table during the day, and finished the last page sitting at a table with the nice guys at Gaijin Studios during the Atlanta convention. I’ve been working in comics ever since.

BOB McLEOD And no wonder! I think it was against the law for sample pages to be this good in 1973, or my early samples probably would have looked a lot like this… Spider-Man TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

details. I think my editor sent some of them to the writer, but I never got to talk to him. I knew everything would be answered in the script anyway, and I’m usually fairly patient. However, when I got the first 20 pages of script, the first 14 or so were a pretty clear group of moments that I could not wait to draw. Typically, I want to stage things even in the first part of a story, so that I can call back to them later. But this story was long enough that I figured I could work with/around anything I established on this first batch of pages, and not paint myself into a corner. Unfortunately, my editor was let go from DC way before I got the rest of the script. And on top that, I was told the writer suffered from

BOB McLEOD

described to me as a psychological story about the

some sort of head injury, or got very sick. I’m not sure. So it

These standard grids

thoughts, personalities and character flaws of Superman,

was a full calendar year from the time I was asked to do this

prove you don’t need

The Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and The Martian

book, until the time I got the last 20 or 30 pages of the

to use fancy inset,

Manhunter. And it would have some good superhero action

script and knew exactly what the ending was. But Mike

staggered or slanted

as well. I knew it was going to be a 96-page story with no

Carlin became my new editor, and he was so encouraging

breaks, so I asked if I could get the whole script before we

the whole way. He talked me into moving ahead with the

panels to draw exciting pages. It’s what you put in the panels that counts. Keep moving the viewing

set the art deadlines. This isn’t always feasible, but surpris-

story without the rest of the script, and I didn’t want to make

ingly, my editor reluctantly agreed because I think that he

a big deal about it because I knew it was a fluke in the first

and the writer had already discussed a lot of the story before

place that they were letting me wait.

my name was mentioned.

I was still bummed about the change of situation, and

If I can — I like to read as much of the story and dialogue

whether I could deliver my best work. So before I’d con-

up front as possible. I draw each page primarily from dialogue

firmed David to color, I remember asking Mike if we need-

this, and vary the

and captions because I want the art to work with all the words

ed to hire a colorist that was more detailed and rendered

size of your figures.

and sentences that thereader will actually read. I sort of men-

than usual because it was a hardcover book, and I didn’t

Move forward and

tioned it earlier, but I don’t want to bore the reader with redun-

know if readers would expect to see something more than

back in space rather

dant information. And I definitely don’t want to make the writer

my simple approach. But he said “No way.” He wanted me

than sideways.

look like he or she is wasting their time describing my drawing

to do exactly what David and I had done on a previous DC

to the reader, so I try to vary the art a little from the printed text.

book, and that he’d been chasing me for the last couple

angle around like

Particularly with a story like this, or even a mini-series with a

years specifically because of that story. It was called

definite ending, I can improve my art if I know what to fore-

Superman Jr. and Superboy Sr. and I think it was part of a

shadow and how to pace the peaks and valleys of the roller

summer series called Sins of Youth. Very flattering to have

coaster ride. It also helps me to pace my workload if I know

someone basically tell you, “don’t change a thing!”

when all of the action-packed splash pages and complex moments are coming, because I can plan ahead. So, I was pretty damned happy right from the beginning

I had to take some other jobs while I waited for the rest of the script, so I asked one my other best friends, D. Alexander Gregory — we call him Doug — to help me out,

that I got the one thing I asked for. The basic story outline

because I was worried about meeting my new deadlines as

was really cool, and I had so many questions about the

the rest of the script was finished. I paid him to do layouts

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

for 60 or 70 pages. It was interesting working together, and

ered. Most proba-

working from someone else’s layouts. All the drawings were

bly would have just

still me, but Doug has a very good eye for composition and

walked away at

clear storytelling, so I had back-up when I needed it. It

some point. Having

would have been great to do everything myself, but the

had the privilege of

schedule change just didn’t allow it.

seeing the whole

About a week after David and I finished the last few pages

book, I think the fans

of the story, Mike Carlin called me to say they might not print

would have loved it. I

the book. I think some folks farther up the totem pole just did-

suppose there’s

n’t like the final result and thought it was kind of a mess. Mike

always a chance they

was very nice to me about the whole thing, and apologized;

could unearth it at

which sucks, because it was probably my responsibility, not

some future point.

his. He made the point that my biggest fans were folks who

So after the Kid

were probably on the DC comp list and would get the book

Amazo project, you

for free, but that it was hard to tell if the book would have any

seemed to sort of drop

mass appeal. I felt a little depressed about letting down every-

out of sight for a while,

one involved, but a week or two after that, DC was kind

barring the occasional

enough to pay me for the rest of my work. So I thought

short story here and

maybe there was a chance they’d still print the book one day.

there. What’s kept you

I haven’t heard anything official about it since. But I’ve gone

busy since then? Can

back to color and letter pages myself during some of my free-

you bring us up to date?

time, just for my own entertainment and education. Not just this

Any upcoming projects?

stuff, but I have quite a few unpublished pages and pin-ups I did on my own time, where I’ll go back and play with them

HAYNES: Yeah, I definitely had other things I wanted to

years later just for the practice. It’s weird. I’ll almost never sit

do during parts of Kid Amazo, but my editor did his job

around and sketch for fun unless I’m sketching in my head. I

and got the work out of me. I’m glad I stuck with it.

BOB McLEOD See more of Rob’s art on the Rough Stuff page of my web site

like doing finished pieces now that I’m comfortable with my

As far as what I’ve been up to, I’ve been very fortu-

style, but not sketching for the sake of sketching. Or, I’ll dig

nate to maintain a fairly steady amount of work in comics

at http://www.

through the old art. I’ve got a 60-page story that David and I

since 1991. But I guess it seems like I’m in and out of

bobmcleod.com/

wrote and drew about 12 years ago for fun, that I just found

comics because I have other interests, and I don’t always

haynesrs.html

and cracked open a couple weeks ago. Just a few years ago, I

gravitate towards high-profile comic book projects. I

did a trading card using a re-inked and re-colored piece of

don’t even ask for credit on anything I do. And layouts

Spider-Man art from before I was a real live professional,

being my favorite job in comics because of the speed

because I was so proud of it back then. Every once in a while

and freedom I have, I’m not always listed. But I’ve

when I’m asked, “what are you working on?” I’ll say, “same old,

worked with various artists on other books for DC and

same old.” I like drawing new pages and new stories more

Marvel over the last five years and been able to draw sto-

than anything. But because I never got a formal art education,

ries with The Batman, Green Lantern, Captain America,

it’s always helped me to go back and examine what the hell I

Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, and Wolverine, all doing

was thinking on earlier work. If I’d done art assignments for

what they do best. I’ve had a chance write some stories.

class critiques, then I’d probably have no interest in revisiting

I colored my first story for another artist at DC, which

pieces that had already been talked to death. So that’s one of

turned out better than the stuff I do for myself half the

the ways I improve. That, and going through experiences like

time. And, I even lettered an 85-page story I did the lay-

the Kid Amazo thing. Speaking of talking something to death...

outs for at Warner Books, or Grand Central Publishing. I’m not sure if they’ve changed their name yet. The fin-

TOWNSEND: Not at all. You actually touched on some-

ished art is by Sanford Greene and Kelsey Shannon. My

thing I’m just now realizing I should have asked about earli-

next project is a mini-series being written by Jason

er in the interview: your process. Regarding the Kid Amazo

Pearson as we speak. So, I’m pretty f’ing excited! In the

thing, from the outside looking in, I find it interesting and,

meantime, I’ll just be doing the “same old, same old.”

dare I say, noble of you to shoulder so much of the blame. I think you performed above and beyond, all things consid-

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

COVER STORIES

hether a cover is inked or painted, it still needs to be approved in sketch form, then a finished drawing is done. But even after the sketch is approved, the artist may come up with a better idea and make some unexpected changes. JOE JUSKO In the Clutches of the Blood Red Queen Sketch In the initial cover sketch my original intention was to have flames shooting up from the bottom of the painting, since the Queen is a demonic presence. I also included her ornate collar into the design in the shape of a heart, as a play on her name. The intention was already at this point to design it as a montage, as the first cover I did of the two of them was a literal scene and I wanted to do something different.

Pencil In the final working pencil I did away with the collar as I felt it was to distracting and confused the composition. You really need to become an objective editor where your own art is concerned. I’m undecided at this point about the flames at the bottom, also. I want something a little more “design-y.” 16

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Final Painting The dripping blood was just what I needed to give the piece the graphic design element I was looking for, and painting the Queen in hot color gave her the demonic indication she needed. Painting Vampi in darker, cooler values separated her from the background and emphasized the montage effect.

BOB McLEOD It’s very difficult to draw a smile from this angle, as Joe’s rough sketch shows. In fact, the whole head is difficult, so study this well. The final painting (see it in glorious color in our $2.95 downloadable PDF version) is a great study piece for anatomy. Notice where the ears are on the large head, and the wonderfully foreshortened arm. Would you have drawn the breast that low? Well, that’s where it goes! And here’s your chance to learn how to draw high-heeled shoes! SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

INTERVIEW

JOE JUSKO By Bob McLeod

orking as a NYC police officer wasn’t tough enough for Joe Jusko, so he decided to become one of the best fantasy artists in the world. He set the standard for painted trading cards with his 1992 Marvel Masterpieces cards, and his awesome 1995 Burroughs cards. He’s won two “Favorite

Painter” Wizard Fan Awards, several trading card awards, a Burroughs Bibliophiles Golden Lion Award and a Chesley Award nomination for best cover in 2001. He also recently painted a graphic novel based on Lara Croft and won a Certificate of Merit from the Society of Illustrators. And to really rub it in, he’s a very nice guy.

JOE JUSKO

BOB McLEOD: Hi, Joe.

JUSKO: Every graduating

Welcome to Rough Stuff,

class had awards granted

and thanks for that beau-

from different companies

tiful cover! We all have to

to the top student in each

start somewhere. What

of the art majors that the

was the first pro painting

school taught. I was an

you ever did? Do you

Illustration major, but

remember?

somehow received the

JOE JUSKO: I got really

Cartooning award from

lucky in that regard! I had

DC. It was a congratula-

just graduated from

tory letter from Sol

NYC’s High School of Art

Harrison on DC letter-

& Design, and despite

head and a $25 gift cer-

Sketch

winning DC Comics’

tificate to an art supply

I was looking for an

“Award of Excellence” in

store. I still have the letter

image that evoked

cartooning I had decided

framed in my studio, and I

memories of the orig-

that I wanted to paint,

used the gift certificate to

inal Enric covers

instead.

buy my first brushes and

Vampirella Tree

tubes of paint! $25 went

from the Warren magazines. It’s

McLEOD: Whoa! Tell me

a long way in 1977!

become the most

about this Award of

(laughs) The award was

Excellence. What was it,

incredibly reassuring and

and what did it mean?

obviously much appreciated,

popular Vampi image I’ve painted.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

of the sample pieces I painted for a cover! I was 17

JOE JUSKO

years old at the time. I don’t remember what they paid

Heavy Metal

me (I think it was $250) but I would have given them the

June ’78

painting for free had they asked, as Heavy Metal was the

My very first pub-

“It” magazine of the time and getting a cover was a very big deal! By the way, Chaykin hates the name “Howie”! I’m sure wherever he is, his ears are perking like a Dachshund hearing a dog whistle! (laughs)

lished cover. Were I to paint this today the only change I would make would be to

McLEOD: Yeah, I know. I think of him more as a

shoot a model for the

Doberman, though. Hi, Howard! Wow, 17 years old! I’m

figure. The composi-

impressed. Do you remember what issue of Heavy Metal

tion still works fine.

that first painting was used for?

It’s actually been

JUSKO: As I remember, it was the June 1978 cover. I

cropped by about 4"

know who owns it, and I’ve been trying to track him

on the top and bottom

down to get it back. It would be nice to have for senti-

to fit the magazine.

mental reasons if nothing else.

evidenced by the fact that I still have it all these years later! The irony for me has always been that DC has given me almost no work in the past 30 years. One of those things that make you go “Hmmm?.” McLEOD: Don’t get me started on irony in the comic book business. So what did you do next? JUSKO: I spent the gift certificate money I received on a sampling of paints; everything from watercolors to oils. I played with them all over that summer and ended up with a couple of decent mixed media pieces, since I was teaching myself and didn’t really have a handle on any particular medium. McLEOD: How did you transition from talented amateur to published pro? JUSKO: That fall I met Howard Chaykin in a Greenwich Village comic shop, and was hired as his assistant based on those few painting samples. McLEOD: Meeting the right people can really be key. If I hadn’t met Neal Adams, I’d probably have had an entirely different career. So Howie helped you? JUSKO: During that period I was doing backgrounds and painted effects on Empire, Cody Starbuck and various comic stories, including all of the backgrounds on a Red Sonja backup story for Savage Sword of Conan. Eventually, he sent me up to Heavy Metal magazine to meet with editor Julie Simmons and she purchased one SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO Sheena croc sketch Just a really cool slam bang jungle action piece! The monkey was shifted to just out of reach of the croc’s jaws in the final painting.

BOB McLEOD Notice the arc created by the tree limb in the upper right going down to her left arm and flowing down to her thigh and then into the panther’s front leg. An opposing arc is created by the croc’s mouth moving down through his leg, creating an ‘X’ design. But there’s also a circular design created by the placement of darks, framing Sheena in the center.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO Lady Pendragon #1 Final working pencil. This is the drawing I actually painted over for the cover. I like a nice, tight pencil since I work in a lot of washes and glazes.

BOB McLEOD I usually advise my students to avoid using verticals and horizontals when designing compositions. But this is a good example of how that rule can be successfully broken. The rhythmical placement of verticals across

McLEOD: How successful a painting do you think it

JUSKO: The progression from the cover piece to the cal-

was, in retrospect?

endar was noticeable. The latter was a bit more painterly,

JUSKO: For the time it was done and the limited training

showing more volume and skill in the human figure, but

I had I felt it was pretty good. I still do, in retrospect.

not so much in the dragon steed the alien bounty hunter is riding. In hindsight, the difference in technique is a bit

McLEOD: I like it, and can certainly see why they

jarring visually, but not enough to ruin the piece. It’s obvi-

bought it.

ous I was still trying to find a style and feel my way

JUSKO: Funny, the theme and content is still my obvious

around the materials. It didn’t stop them from commis-

favorite today; girls and big cats (or in this case a saber-

sioning a third piece from me (November 1979) so I

tooth tiger). While the technique is obviously raw, and my

guess I was on the right track, however blindly I was trav-

knowledge of form and volume wasn’t quite there yet, the

eling it at that point.

this scene anchor all the diagonals to create a powerful composition.

composition made for an eye-catching cover. It was painted with mostly watercolor and Higgins colored inks

McLEOD: No fair! That is way too easy a career start! In

with white Designers Gouache for the snow and high-

contrast, how successful was your most recent painting

lights.

in your opinion, as far as what you initially envisioned, and how it turned out?

McLEOD: So did Heavy Metal request more paintings?

JUSKO: I read an interview with Tim Conrad many years

JUSKO: You know, they did, actually. They immediately

ago wherein he stated that the closest he ever came to

asked me to do a piece for the 1979 Heavy Metal

envisioning his initial concept was about 60%. I think I’ve

calendar.

come much closer, but never near 100%. As you work

McLEOD: Hey, I’ve actually still got that calendar here in

a little, oft times a lot.

out an idea, it inevitably changes and grows, sometimes my studio! Let me look... Yes! What are the odds? There you are. Very well done for someone that age. What a

McLEOD: I agree. I like my art to keep evolving as I

prodigy you were. [See Joe’s calendar painting on the

work on it.

Rough Stuff pages of my web site –Ed.]

JUSKO: That’s one of the reasons I don’t like color

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

eral weeks. I’ve painted covers overnight when the need arose, but that’s hardly optimal to producing quality work. Being as that I work exclusively in acrylics that dry almost instantaneously I can work continuously on a piece, which really speeds up the time needed to complete it. That’s still not always enough time, though, with deadlines taken into account. McLEOD: Deadlines are what I hate most about being an artist. I never feel like I have enough time to do my best. It’s always just the best I can do in that small amount of time. JUSKO: That’s one of the reasons I began doing private commissions a couple of years ago. I wanted the time afforded me to produce my best work, something that’s not always possible when working under stringent deadlines. McLEOD: Where are you from, Joe? JUSKO: I was born on the lower east side of Manhattan, also known as “Alphabet City.” McLEOD: Yeah, because the avenues are “A,” “B,” C.”.. I lived near there in a little rat hole on 9th St. and 2nd Ave. when I was starting out in comics. My apartment was robbed and someone committed suicide jumping off the roof while I was there. Lovely neighborhood. What initially drew you to doing art for a living? JUSKO: We didn’t have much money growing up, and my neighborhood wasn’t exactly

JOE JUSKO

comps. They lock you into a color scheme or design once

Sesame Street, so I found escape from our situation in

Marvel Double-

the art director or editor signs off on it, and many times you

comic books, which we could afford since they were only

Shot #1

end up with a piece that really could have been better had

twelve cents apiece at the time. My older brother Danny

Basically just a pin-

you the freedom to evolve the piece naturally. The most

used to draw, and watching him gave me the incentive to try.

up of the two heroes,

recent major piece (a Sheena painting done for an instruc-

as they were separate stories in the book, ál á the old Tales of Suspense format. The

tional painting DVD) came out at about 80%, I’d say.

McLEOD: My older sister and I used to draw together. We’d lie on the floor and copy the comic strips from the

McLEOD: How long does an average painting take you?

newspaper. My first drawing (Buffalo Bee) was copied

JUSKO: Jeff Jones had my favorite answer to this ques-

from a cereal box when I was five.

tion; “Not as long as it takes to produce a good one.”

JUSKO: The first thing I remember drawing was a Fred

painted Hulk figure

Flintstone head off of the TV screen using my brother’s

has been reused

McLEOD: Oooh, I walked right into that one...

Cray Pa’s. They were a sort of cross between crayons

countless times on

JUSKO: Seriously, though, depending on size and com-

and pastels. After that, you just couldn’t stop me! I

varied merchandise.

plexity a piece could range from a couple of days to sev-

became obsessed with drawing! My brother eventually

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO Marvel DoubleShot #2 These are progressive steps from initial figure construction to final working pencil. The last piece is a small, quick study to determine my light source for the piece. This was all the prep I needed to know where I was going. Note: you can see where I “drew through” the figure to make sure that elements lined up and worked together in the piece. Dr. Doom TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

BOB MCLEOD This is such a wonderful example of how much basic construction is needed to draw a successful figure. Too many artists try to skip or rush through these early steps.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

fact, it never even entered my mind! (laughs) The naivete of youth! McLEOD: How did you get so dang good? Did you have any formal art education after high school? JUSKO: Well, thanks for the compliment! I wish I felt that way about my own work! While the High School of Art & Design taught basics and fundamentals (perspective, composition, etc.), I’m totally self-taught as a painter, learning all I know to this point in my career by trial and error. I’ve bought a ton of art books in my life, and always rejoiced when there was a technique section in the back. I learned so much early on from seeing how artists I admired worked and used their methods to help develop my own over the years. I’m still learning. It’s a never-ending process, to be honest. I always hope I’m a bit better today than I was yesterday. It’s what keeps me going. McLEOD: Did you learn much useful anatomy in school, or did you mostly study on your own to learn anatomy? Even after I was shown the bones and muscles and drew from live models in school, I found I had to study quite a bit on my own afterward to really learn to draw figures that moved. JUSKO: They tried to teach anatomy in A&D, but how much could you really cover in high school? What they did do was show you what you needed to know, and hopefully you had enough drive and ambition to seek out the knowledge on your own. I was voracious in my desire to get that stuff right. I took many life drawing classes and drew the figure constantly. McLEOD: There’s a difference between the anatomy

JOE JUSKO

stopped, but I maintained my interest. Good thing,

Sentinel

because brain surgeon or rock guitarist were definitely

we use in comic books and the anatomy required for

not in my future.

painting, though. Most comic artists, myself included, use

Pure fantasy piece

what I call “streamlined” anatomy. We don’t usually draw

for Inquest magazine. I mixed sand with gesso for the texture on the outcropping

McLEOD: Same here! My sister gave up art in college,

very realistic knees, for example.

but I was determined to make a living as an artist of

JUSKO: Wow, it’s funny you mentioned knees! My buddy

some sort. But I never wanted to be a painter. Something

(and fellow painter) Chris Moeller once told me I painted

about line drawing fascinated me, and I always wanted to

great knees, and at the time I found it an odd compli-

she’s perched on. A

just be a cartoonist.

ment. I realized as we talked, though, that as artists we

favorite of mine.

JUSKO: I had wanted to be John Buscema ever since

look at details like that because they’re the little things

discovering his work at around age eight, but realized as

that are often the hardest to pull off effectively. I learned

high school graduation approached that I would probably

a lot about moving the figure from comics, with John

never be fast enough to draw a monthly book (I’m still

Buscema being my main influence from that arena. He

not) so I decided to try painting. I reasoned that I would

could naturally draw a figure from any angle and it was

have more time per piece and have more control over

correct. As I got older, I realized that as brilliant as his

what the final product looked like. The fact that I had

anatomy was, it was still very stylized, and relied more on

never painted a stroke in my life didn’t deter me at all. In

actual anatomy for my work. As a “realist” painter it was

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

essential for my work. The human body is still the

JOE JUSKO

hardest thing to draw properly. I’m always finding

Hellriders

something intriguing about how light hits it or how it moves. It’s a miraculous machine.

This page and next. This was a creator-

McLEOD: I love drawing figures. You said you usually use acrylics, right? Why do you prefer them to oils? JUSKO: I chose acrylics for myriad reasons. I tried

owned project started for Epic Comics in the late ’80s. I have all 64

oils way back when I started, but I couldn’t quite get

pages penciled for over

the hang of the solvents and mediums needed to use

20 years, now. The first

them. Acrylics were easy to use since all you need is

16 pages or so were

water, but they’re difficult to master because of the

painted and serialized

abbreviated drying time. Once I developed a process

in Frank Frazetta

that worked for me, I was hooked. They also work well

Fantasy Illustrated a

with my temperament, because I like to keep working

few years back. I plan

once I start. Waiting between stages for things to dry

to redo it as a b&w

is maddening for me.

book and get it published (eventually). It’s

McLEOD: What about transparent watercolor? Gouache? I just saw the most amazing gouache paintings in an exhibit of National Geographic art at

a very cool chase story with an “EC/Twilight Zone” type ending.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

the Allentown Art Museum recently.

that some art directors and editors require that, and I’ve

JUSKO: I used them both early on when I was using my

done them when required, but it seems that all creative

mixed media approach, mainly because I didn’t know how

spark and spontaneity is lost that way. The b&w roughs

to use any one particular medium properly. I don’t use

are pretty basic compositional pieces with lighting and

them anymore mainly due to the inherent fragility and

color notes written on them or indicated.

fugitive nature of the paint, gouache in particular. I admire guys like Bob Larkin, who could use gouache in a way

McLEOD: Do you ever sell them separately, as many fine

that resembles an oil. I’ve never been that confident with

artists do?

them, and since I work in washes and glazes much of the

JUSKO: I used to throw them away, but in recent years I

time it’s definitely not the medium for me.

began selling them for a nominal charge. Better someone who appreciates them have them than the landfill.

McLEOD: Do you do color studies before starting the

actual painting? If so, how rough are they, and how simi-

McLEOD: So where do you work your magic? My stu-

lar are they to the finished painting?

dio’s down in my basement, but I guess that wouldn’t be

JUSKO: I do b&w roughs, but very seldom color as I pre-

optimal for a painter, with no natural light. What’s your

viously stated. One reason is I don’t like being locked

studio like? How big is it?

into a color scheme, but the main reason is because it’s

JUSKO: My studio has gotten progressively larger every

like painting the same piece twice. I see other artists pro-

time I’ve moved. I now have an entire basement that

ducing color prelims that could be published as final

serves as my studio, and it’s filled to the brim. I find it

pieces! How could you possibly have any enthusiasm left

amusing because for about seven years in the ’80s I lived

by the time you get to the finished painting? I understand

in a one bedroom apartment and my studio was a 4' x 6'

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

walk-in closet that I took the doors off of to serve as my

used to working

studio. All of the posters such as the She-Hulk beach

vertically. I like to

painting were painted in that closet! I don’t know how I

rest my arm on the

did it. As for the lighting issues in the basement, I use

piece as I work,

Daylight Corrected Florescent Bulbs in the studio, both

and the drafting

in the ceiling lights and the table & easel lamps.

table allows me to do that.

McLEOD: How many easels and drawing tables do you have? I tried doing an oil painting on my drafting table

McLEOD: That’s

recently, setting it up vertically, and I’ll never do that

another advan-

again. I’ve gotta get an easel.

tage of acrylics.

JUSKO: I have one large drafting table that I work on

Most of my stu-

95% of the time and an easel that I use when painting

dio is running

large areas. I prefer the table because I just can’t get

over with my

art book collection; everything from how-to-draw books to French comic albums. Do you collect art books?

JOE JUSKO Black Panther #6 pg #6

JUSKO: I have an extensive

The knife fight was

library of both art and refer-

researched and cho-

ence books that I’ve accumu-

reographed to give it a

lated over the last 30 years.

really authentic feel.

Books are an addiction of

mine, actually. Half Price Books and Borders are like Toy-R-Us for me! I’ve got everything from every Andrew Loomis book to the three binder set of Famous Artist School lessons that I found in a used book store years ago. Books on figure drawing, perspective, painting, animals, landscapes, etc. are essential to the craft. I can’t pass one up. The studio is also full of statues and toys. It’s my personal little geek haven!

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO

McLEOD: Mine, too! We artists are all the

Black Panther #7 pg #19

same. What’s on your walls? I have art most-

Layout and finished pencils. I

ly by the old adventure strip artists, like

only inked issue #6, so I did full

Leonard Starr, Milton Caniff, Alex Raymond,

pencils for #’s 7 & 8. The layout was done on 81⁄2" x 11" typing paper and blown up to comic board size and lightboxed. This page really works because of the strong one-point perspec-

and Al Williamson, but nothing of my own. Do you collect any original art by others? JUSKO: I’m passionate about collecting. My house is covered in art, and none of it’s mine. It seems a bit self-indulgent to hang my own art everywhere. I’d rather hang work by others who inspire me than look at my own work all

tive. It’s also an example of

day, since after a while (a very short while) I

drawing without a model. See,

only see the mistakes in my work and it makes

it can be done!

me crazy! I’d rather sell my work to those who

like it and buy stuff I like! McLEOD: Who are some of the painters you admire? I’m a huge fan of N.C. Wyeth. Do you have any big favorites? JUSKO: I have many pieces by Enric and Sanjulian hanging around the house, but not many genre pieces, although there are several Vampirella pieces. I have mostly fine art and gallery pieces they did. I also have pieces by Frank Cho, Dave Johnson, Eduardo Risso, Glen Orbik, John Buscema and a personalized lioness drawing by some guy named Frazetta. Many ’60s paperback covers, too. McLEOD: Other than Buscema, who were your primary influences? JUSKO: My influences are so wide-ranging I’d never be able to list them all, especially since they keep changing as my interests evolve and shift. While I started with most of the same influences many of my generation had (Frazetta, Boris, Bama), I’ve also followed Golden Age illustrators, ’50s and ’60s paperback artists such as Robert McGinnis, Robert Maguire, Bob Abbett, Ron Lesser (the list is endBlack Panther and Kraven TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

less) and in recent years top flight wildlife painters

JOE JUSKO 21 Down #3 This particular story concerned a girl whose paranormal ability was to make anyone (or thing) fall in love with her with uncontrollable desire. The idea that we wanted to get across on the cover was that 1) the lead character Mickey was seduced by Harmony’s power, and 2) Harmony’s power becomes so intense that anything in the natural world is drawn to her, including the branches of the tree she’s tied to.

Pencil Final drawing that I painted over is worked out. While it’s going to be painted as a montage, I made sure that their eyes are facing each other to subtly indicate their connection.

Final Painting I used a two-color scheme to separate the scenes, but still kept the connection based on Mickey’s gaze. Writer Jimmy Palmiotti made the editor swear not to crop out Mickey’s left hand, which is, um, confirming her attraction to Harmony. I don’t think anyone has ever even noticed it.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO Punisher/ Painkiller Jane This was a really fun book that unfortunate circumstances prevented me from finishing. It’s an example where I did use photos for the main characters to achieve a certain look. Amanda Conner posed as Jane and I donned the coat for Punny. The photo session was a hoot! The trick is that you’d never know where I did or didn’t use the photos, or how much was added after the fact. These were colored afterwards, and while the color was good, I’ve found that the combination of grey tones and computer coloring can get kinda muddy.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

such as John Seerey Lester, Guy Coheleach and my personal favorite Simon Combes. I could go on, but you get the idea. McLEOD: I was asked to teach a class in wildlife illustration last year, don’t laugh, when an instructor backed out at the last minute, and I picked up a wonderful book of paintings by Combes called Great Cats. I can easily see where you’d like his work. And I really like Coheleach. JUSKO: To be influenced by any one artist is to severely hamper your growth potential, so I’ve been cognizant to vary my influences as much as possible. McLEOD: How big do you normally work? What’s the largest painting you’ve done? JUSKO: My covers range from a standard 11" x 17" comic page size to around 20" x 30", but I have worked as large as 24" x 36". As a rule, the more characters, the larger the painting tends to be. McLEOD: The smallest? And does size affect how you paint, as far as technique? JUSKO: Well, size is generally determined by content and time given by the publisher. Usage also determines the size of the original. For instance, trading card art is normally no larger than 9" x 12", and I’ve worked as small 6" x 81⁄2" on the ’92 Marvel Masterpieces cards, since I had to complete 104 paintings in about 90 days. While expeditious, the drawbacks to working that size are limited space for detail (though I overcame that problem fairly well) and the absolute horror of seeing the art reproduced on a scale much larger than the originals, as in the Masterpiece comic collections that Marvel produced.

fairly tight most of the time.

McLEOD: That’s never good...

McLEOD: Do you have a favorite brand of brushes or

JUSKO: I still wince when I see them. Because the art

paints? I never know what brushes to get when I’m

was meant to be viewed at card size (approximately 21⁄2"

painting, and I got some Liquitex acrylics just because

x 31⁄2") they looked awful when blown up to comic size.

they were the first ones I noticed in the art store.

Artists on subsequent sets had the benefit of knowing

JUSKO: I use a lot of different brands, as colors vary

ahead of time that the art would be reused in many dif-

from manufacturer to manufacturer. For instance, Raw

ferent ways and compensated by painting the originals

Umber can lean either toward a gray brown or a yellow

much bigger than card size. My style remains fairly con-

brown. It takes a bit of searching through different

sistent whatever size I work, though, as I tend to work

brands to find the colors you like best. I generally prefer

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Liquitex, but prefer the medium viscosity or soft-body (as

JOE JUSKO

they’re now called) jar versions to the heavy-bodied tube

Tomb Raider: Greatest Treasure of All

paints.

This is my favorite work I’ve ever done, and the most work I’ve ever put into anything. If you notice, I design my pages with no gutters between the panels. I composed each page to work as

McLEOD: Now you tell me. What’s the difference? JUSKO: They’re much creamier and thin down easier while still keeping their opacity and covering capabilities. Much better for detail, too. The tube colors are better for heavier, more impasto applications. I also use various airbrush acrylics for certain watercolor type effects. I use

a single piece of art as well as a storytelling device. Gutters somehow “cheapen” painted art in my eyes. In order for the page to work, though, you need to be sure that the panels read into each other properly and be careful not to lose the panel corners so that the page remains readable. It can get tricky on a complex page, but the end result is worth it.

JUSKO: I prefer unprimed Bainbridge #80 double thick

fairly inexpensive synthetic brushes, as acrylics really

cold pressed illustration board to canvas. Since I work in

destroy sables, which aren’t stiff enough to handle

a wash and glaze technique much of the time a gessoed

acrylic, anyway. Also, no matter how well you clean an

surface would be too slick for me, as the paint would

acrylic painting brush it will quickly clog up down at the

streak like crazy. I’ve used that board since I started over

ferrule, so by using low cost (not inferior) brushes you

30 years ago. I know what the paint will do when I lay it

can easily replace them. I use either Winsor & Newton

down and what textures and effects I can achieve with-

Series 233 and Loew-Cornell series 795 or 797 brushes.

out thinking about it. I’ve tried other boards but just don’t

I also use an assortment of soft bristle brushes for scum-

feel comfortable with them.

bling and blending. McLEOD: Okay, Bainbridge it is, then. I’ll try that next McLEOD: Do you paint on canvas or board?

time. What’s your daily routine? Do you paint in the SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

morning, at night, or just whenever you’re in the

JUSKO: Unless I have specific plans I’m good for week-

mood?

ends, too. The mistake a lot of aspiring artists make is

JUSKO: I’m nocturnal by nature, so I tend to work late

thinking that this is a nine-to-five job. You have to love

into the night. I’ve tried to work “normal” hours, especially

this job, because it requires a lot of time and dedication.

when I was married, but my focus is so much stronger

If it’s not something you absolutely can’t live without

later in the day. Even if I get up at 6 a.m. I’m normally

doing, find another profession.

useless until around 11 a.m. I’ll putter around the studio until I get in gear.

McLEOD: Do you listen to music or talk radio or watch TV while you work? I like NPR, National Public Radio, but

McLEOD: I’m exactly like that. Don’t ever ask me to draw

when I’m concentrating I just work in silence. Sometimes

at 8 a.m. But I do try to work regular hours, since I’m

I’ll turn on the radio and not even notice that it didn’t

married, with kids. How many hours do you usually work

come on because it was set to CD until an hour later.

every day?

JUSKO: Not music, but I listen to an Internet radio sta-

JUSKO: I put in anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day

tion that plays ’40s and ’50s mystery radio shows. Great

when I’m working on a job. Eight hours just seems to fly

stuff, and much more entertaining than music. I also have

by, so I work longer hours, as do most people in the

a TV in the studio that is on constantly so I can occasion-

industry.

ally look up and relieve my eye strain by watching stuff move around for a while.

McLEOD: Weekends? My wife thinks I’m a workaholic

because I occasionally go into my studio (she refers to it

McLEOD: How extensively do you use live models or

as “sneaking down to”) on weekends.

photos? For the benefit of the laymen out there, can you

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #1 Pages #’s 2 & 3 This was the big reveal in the story, and needed an epic presentation. It’s always fun composing rolling landscapes like this. The inset panel balances out the dark areas of the page, keeping it from looking bottom-heavy. Something no one has ever caught is the reflection of only one sun in her eyes although there are two in the sky. Oops!

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #1, Page #5 Fun page introducing the bad guys and anticipating the action to come. I deviate very little from my layouts in the finished pages, but I did make note to fix Adam’s legs in panel #5.

talk a bit about the needs and benefits of them, as opposed to winging it from your imagination? JUSKO: OkayK. This is probably the biggest bone of contention in the industry, but oddly, mainly with fans that don’t quite understand the process. Other artists understand completely and most use them more than people realize. McLEOD: Yeah, many fans seem to believe “real” artists don’t need photos and only draw from their imagination. JUSKO: In regards to the instructional painting DVD I recently filmed, I was approached by another really popular pro who was interested in doing one, but was cautious because he uses photos and was afraid of ridicule. How sad that he need feel that way. Every major illustrator has used photos in their work, especially those who work in a literal, realistic style. 36

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #1, Page #8 This page is a nice example of my dislike for gutters on my painted pages. While I indicated a panel separation in the layouts, I opted for a cleaner, more integrated design in the final art. I also re-conceived panel one to add a mount for the guy getting impaled. It would have been out of continuity to have him on the ground at this stage.

McLEOD: Again, for the artistically uneducated among our readers, can you give examples of some artists most people know who’ve used photos and models? JUSKO: Norman Rockwell used photos, as did all the members of the Famous Artists School, most every paperback illustrator since the ’50s, including James Bama, movie poster artists like Drew Struzan, Bob McGinnis and Frank McCarthy, the magazine artists of the ’50s and ’60s, and on and on and... you get the idea. These artists are revered by SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #1, Page #18 Two-point perspective used to walk the reader into the scene. The layout was just eyeballed to get the flow and direction on the page, and later refined with a ruler and actual vanishing point. Placing the squared inset panel against the diagonal line on the walkway drives it forward and gives it an almost three-dimensional quality.

the same people who resent comic and fantasy artists for using them, which makes no sense at all. McLEOD: I guess Frazetta’s mainly responsible for that, because his style gives the impression that he’s faking it to a large extent. JUSKO: I use models on a regular basis, but not all the time. If I’m painting superhero covers or gaming and comic cards I seldom use photos. But as a realist, there are things that are simply not achievable without them. Light hits the human body in very unique and unpredictable ways that one can’t fake with certainty. You may know generally how light affects the figure, but that limited knowledge will cause you to repeat the same lighting over and over. McLEOD: Which of course is what 38

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #2, Page #1 I like the body language on the figures here. Vampi looks drained and Adam has a feeling of losing his footing in the sand. It helps to act out the characters a bit before you draw them. It’s sort of the “method acting” school of comic art.

everyone does in drawing comics, but painting is a different ball game. JUSKO: Draping clothing presents the same issues. Folds are unique in regard to lighting and tension. Similar from figure to figure, but not the same by any means. As many times as you may have seen a lion or a dog or a horse, no one can realistically paint one from any conceivable angle or in every possible lighting condition. Photos are an acceptable tool to an end, as are lightboxes, Artographs and clip files. They were created with the express purpose of helping an artist complete his job expeditiously and efficiently. Their use does not mean the artist cannot SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #2, Page #10 From the moment Vampi enters the temple I changed the panel structure for the scenes where she and Lilith meet for the first time to emphasize the disorienting feeling. It was a simple solution, but coupled with the extreme camera angles it achieved the effect I was looking for.

draw. You need that drawing knowledge to be able to interpret the photo. How many times have you seen a painting done using photo ref that’s all cockeyed because the artist didn’t have the foundational skills to understand the information in the reference? McLEOD: Exactly. There is no substitute for drawing ability. And any figure information that comes from your imagination must be originally learned from studying photos or models anyway. JUSKO: But this is a job. The faster and better one gets his work done, the faster he gets another job, which in turn puts more food on his family’s table. Many agencies and publishers actually had fees or stipends built into the contracts so the artists could hire the appropriate models for the job. Show me one romance cover that wasn’t 40

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #2, Page #16 Fairly sedate page, but I’m particularly fond of establishing shots as in panel #2. I’m amazed how many artists fail to use these to give reference to the reader as to exactly where the action is taking place. I’m big on backgrounds, both in my sequential art and on my covers.

painted from models posing in the appropriate garb. Use a photo to draw an Avengers cover, though... McLEOD: Do you keep a sketchbook? Am I the only artist that doesn’t do that? JUSKO: I never got used to drawing in a sketchbook. The spine always hindered me, as did trying to hold the book open and flat. I do have files full of sketches, ideas and prelims for previously completed jobs and a plethora of as yet unrealized projects. SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

JOE JUSKO Vampirella: Bloodlust #2, Page #10 Writer James (Robinson) had asked for back-to-back ninepanel pages, which didn’t leave a lot of room to work, and were composed of mostly conversational panels. The challenge with pages like that is to avoid too many talking heads. I also didn’t want to use a standard three panel, three-tiered page layout, so I staggered the panel numbers around the page.

McLEOD: Do you have any unfulfilled artistic desires? I’d like to paint landscapes someday, for instance. JUSKO: Absolutely! All artists do. I’m a big wildlife art fan and would love to dedicate time to painting big cats. It’s been an ambition for years now to travel to Africa for a photo safari, but I’ve yet to find the time. I’d also like to study a bit more with oils and spend some time doing gallery-style figurative work. When the time is right, I suppose, or I hit the lottery! McLEOD: Thanks so much for this interview, Joe! It’s been great. See more of Joe’s art on the Rough Stuff page of my web site at http://www. bobmcleod.com/juskors.html

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

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PRE-PRO

love seeing what really good artists drew when they were just kids, or when they were close to breaking in, but not quite there. This issue all of our featured artists shared some of their early work.

ROB HAYNES I just found this. I’ve thought it was lost for several years. It’s the first comic book I ever drew. I loved ninja movies, and I loved Frank Miller’s Ronin story. I wanted to do a sequel, with a ninja. Most of the ideas were stolen from American Ninja, GI: Joe #21, a two-issue story where Spider-Man fought the Galactus herald Firelord, and Ronin. I made it a little over 30 pages in, before I got frustrated with my lack of practice. I was at the end of sixth grade when I started imagining the first page, and kept drawing more until I was 15 years old. Four years later I inked the first few pages and drew a cover. Even then, I felt like I learned something from inking old art, but I only had to ink those four pages before I just started on a new comic with new drawings. The Daredevil: Ninja books gave me a chance to recapture whatever craziness I was trying to capture so long ago. There are definitely influences in that series from my memory of this.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

JOE JUSKO

Centurius and the Giant

Centurius Bar Brawl

Centurius was my high

My penchant for over-rendering my high school

school answer to

work is evident in this piece. I was playing with

Conan. I’ve been a John

both pens and brushes, trying for a more

Buscema geek since I

detailed Neal Adams style line. Obviously, I

was a kid, and his influ-

failed miserably!

ence is all over this page. I was about 16 when I did this.

JOE JUSKO Centurius and the Witch A pretty nice page from my initial Centurius story. Ambitious amount of detail and a decently drawn girl, but what stands out for me now is that none of the background settings match from panel to panel. Continuity is completely nonexistent! Again, done in junior year. SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

SCOTT WILLIAMS I don’t have a lot of my early art anymore, but from 1982, three representative pieces. I was in college and quite determined to make a living drawing comic books. I seem to remember thinking that the work you see represented here was already worthy of professional publication. While these drawings show promise, I was of course premature in declaring myself competent. It’s amusing to note that you can see the various influences I brought to these drawings. The Rocketeer was of course inspired by Dave Stevens, the Wolverine had a Bill Sienkiewicz vibe, and the Cyclops... well... I don’t know what I was thinking on that one! Wolverine and Cyclops TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. Rocketeer TM & ©2008 Dave Stevens.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

MEL RUBI These three pages are some of the samples that got me into the comic industry. Tom Defalco, editor-inchief at the time, was so impressed with them that he hired me on the spot. He immediately told me that I should expect a call from him as soon as he got back to New York about a project and that if he didn’t call that I should contact the office about some work from the big man himself. I can still remember the crowd cheering me on that day. It was an amazing feeling. Thor TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

INTERVIEW

MEL RUBI By Bob McLeod

el Rubi is yet another in the long line of great Filipino comic artists. There must be something in the water over there. He’s worked for Valiant, Marvel, and Dark Horse and just keeps getting better with every job. If you’re unfamiliar with his work, as I was, you’re going to be glad you picked up this issue of Rough Stuff.

BOB McLEOD: Thank you for agreeing to this interview, Mel. I just recently discovered your work when

McLEOD: 1993! I didn’t realize you’d been around that long. What was your first assignment?

Ruben Azcona mentioned you to me, but I

RUBI: Dr. Strange was my very first series to have

know you’ve been working in comics for a

drawn as a rookie. At that time, I wasn’t

few years now. How did you first break

that thrilled to work on this title. I

into comics? Was Marvel the first publisher

would’ve preferred something along the

to give you work?

X-Men line. Who wouldn’t, right? But after

MEL RUBI: It took almost three years to finally

awhile I started to feel the character and

break in. I remember standing in line for

began to have fun with it.

many hours for a portfolio review and just when it was

McLEOD: Did you have a favorite prior Dr.

my turn to show my work the

Strange artist?

editors would say that they will no

RUBI: I would have to say Michael Golden

longer review for the day.

was inspiring when he took on Dr. Strange.

McLEOD: Yes, I’ve seen that

McLEOD: Yes, he’s always inspiring on whatev-

happen before at conven-

er he does, but my favorite Dr. Strange artist was

tions! How frustrat-

probably Gene Colan, inked by Tom Palmer. So

ing for you!

what happened to cause you to leave Dr.

RUBI: It was awful!

Strange?

But with patience and

RUBI: Just when I got comfortable with the book

endurance, I succeeded with

they pulled me away to work on a cooler charac-

not only one publisher but two

ter called the Punisher. Well, hopefully, there’ll

at Wonder Con back in 1993.

come a time for Dr. Strange and me to reunite.

Marvel and Valiant loved my art! And the rest is history.

McLEOD: Well, I think Dr. Strange is way cooler than the Punisher, so I hope

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

BOB McLEOD I can definitely see the Michael Golden influence in this Dr. Strange commission piece. But the more realistic anatomy

Courtesy Ruben Azcona

makes it his own.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Courtesy Ruben Azcona

that happens. What factors were involved in the decision

afraid to lose some of the art after printing.

to print from your pencils, with no inking? That means tighter penciling for you, right?

McLEOD: I do think it’s always a challenge in inking not

RUBI: My pencils had always been tight. I’ve never really

to lose any of the quality of the pencils. Are you self-

had complaints with inkers and this played a big role.

taught, or did you go to art school or college? RUBI: My original goal was to be an architect, but I

McLEOD: Whose idea was it? I’ve been told it’s usually

found my real passion was for art. I took various art

only done at the penciller’s request.

classes from a local college, but I’m mostly self-taught.

RUBI: After trying out for Dynamite’s Red Sonja, the editors didn’t see any reason why the art should be traced

McLEOD: It’s interesting that so many comic artists are

over with black inks.

self-taught. It’s just difficult to learn all this stuff in art schools. Nobody was teaching comic art when I was in

McLEOD: Do you always prefer printing from pencils, or

school, and it’s still difficult today unless you travel to the

do you usually like inked comics?

right area. Who were your main influences?

RUBI: It really depends who’s drawing the art. If you

RUBI: My influence at the time, believe it or not, was Todd

look at Mike Mignola’s latest work without inks, it just

McFarlane. He had some of the greatest energy in his artwork

wouldn’t have the kind of mood that you likely expect.

that you just couldn’t stop staring at his pages. But the greatest influence to me would still be Frank Frazetta.

McLEOD: That’s true. He uses so much black, he needs the weight inking provides.

McLEOD: I love Frazetta. He’s just amazing. What’s your

RUBI: And with his art being so blocky it could not satis-

process, do you lightbox from a rough, do thumbnails,

fy a reader by just pencils. On the other hand, if you

blue pencil, or what?

were to see Adam Hughes before inks you might just be

RUBI: I start from thumbnails and stopped blue penciling SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

BOB McLEOD I always like to get in at least one close-up shot on my pages. It’s no fun to look at a series of postage stamp size panels. The big shot of Spidey here really adds necessary oomph to this page. And as I always stress, notice how everything is designed on a diagonal. No horizontals or verticals, especially when you’re showing action. Also notice how the placement of the Spidey figures leads your eye from one to the next through the page, increasing the speed and action.

Courtesy Ruben Azcona

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

because it was just extra work.

spare time at the end of your 12-hour shift?

McLEOD: I’ve never liked blue pencil. How long does it

www.comicbookartgallery.com.

RUBI: Yes. Please, check it out! take you to draw a typical page tightly enough to print from the pencils?

McLEOD: Okay! Well, thanks very much, Mel!

RUBI: Twelve hours a page is what I usually need, but some take more.

MEL RUBI I co-created this with

McLEOD: That’s a long time at the drawing table. Do

Mike Baron a few

you paint or do any art other than comics?

years back. The book

RUBI: Painting is one of my goals in the future. I used to

was called Detonator

build cars, transforming robots and a few other things

and published through

out of cardboard for toys in my younger days.

Image Comics. Originally, Barbara

McLEOD: How old are you, anyway? RUBI: I’m old enough to vote and young enough to have life insurance.

Kaalberg was assigned to be the inker for the mini-

McLEOD: Well, that narrows it down to somewhere

series, but could not

between 21 and 65, I guess. Where do you live?

continue after #4.

RUBI: I’ve lived in California for 28 years.

So I tried finishing it myself.

McLEOD: Aha! So between 28 and 65, then. What’s your next project we should look for? RUBI: I’m working on a new project called Super Zombies. McLEOD: That sounds like fun. Everyone always loves zombies. Do you do any private commissions in your

BOB McLEOD I love an artist who knows the rules of perspective. So few do. I also really like the way Mel crops his panels, focusing in only on the parts of the figures and scenes that tell the story, and cropping everything else out, yet leaving plenty of room for the writer to place dialogue balloons. This seems to be the most difficult thing for beginners to learn.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

BOB McLEOD Compare the body proportions of these Colossus figures to Mel’s leaner SpiderMan and narrowshouldered Wolverine. It’s important to treat each character as an individual and give them a distinct body. He also gave Wolverine a much bigger head, because he’s supposed to be short.

See more of Mel’s art on the Rough Stuff page of my web site at http://www. bobmcleod.com/ rubirs.html

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

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SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

Inkers, Who

N By Bob McLeod

o doubt the vast majority of comic book readers probably haven’t even noticed, but with the advent of computer coloring in recent years, more and more comic books have been printed directly from the pencils, with no bothersome inking involved. The colorist gets scans of the pencils and simply adjusts the gray pencil line to appear black. Some cleanup is required, but it’s much less trouble than inking

the page. A good example of this phenomenon is the recent work of artist Mel Rubi, who’s featured in this issue. His Spider-Man/Red Sonja miniseries was printed directly from his pencils. It looks pretty similar to any other current comic, except that the rendering is a bit lighter, but the coloring more than compensates for that. This begs the question, is inking at all necessary anymore? Are comic book inkers doomed to extinction? Will they soon be shown the door and asked to turn the lights off in the ink room as they leave? Well no, because there is no ink room. All comic artists either mail,

n’t the inker add anything to the pencils? Usually and

e-mail or upload their work these days. But publishers are

hopefully they do, yes, but not nearly so much as they

always looking for ways to cut costs, and using an

used to. I love this Rumsfeld trick of asking and answer-

inker adds anywhere from $2500 to $3000 to

ing my own questions, don’t you? Well,

the cost of producing a comic. I’ve been told

no, er, maybe... but just what does

Marvel pays the colorists extra for the clean-

the inker do, anyway? Sadly, to my

ing-pencils trick, and they also pay the pen-

eternal chagrin, few people real-

ciler extra to pencil so clean, so if that’s

ly know the answer to this mys-

the case there’s probably not much

terious question. More than once

monetary advantage to skipping the

I’ve told someone I inked a comic and

inks. Yet the number of uninked comics seems to be increasing, and

their reply was “You mean you colored it?” Or even worse, “You mean you traced the drawing with

less rendering-intensive styles could

ink?” How did we ever get to this sorry pass, anyway?

be developed that are much easier to

Just what is an inker? Or maybe the question will soon

print uninked. Rendering styles are

be “what was an inker?”

constantly changing anyway and the

Traditionally, before computers and digitalization, the

market would adjust to whatever style

printer’s camera couldn’t discern a gray pencil line well

is adopted.

enough, so inking was necessary to make a clear black

“But waitaminit” you say; or if you don’t say it I will. “Hey, waitaminit here!” Can the penciler really draw

cleanly enough to do without the inker? Well, many can, sure, if they want to take the time and trouble. But does-

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

line that would print well, and the inker made clean, hopefully attractive rendering lines in ink and added or

Needs ’Em?! Gil Kane and Tom Palmer Man-Thing #10 (Marvel, 1974) In the ’70s, Gil Kane’s dynamic pencils became increasingly more open with sparse rendering. Tom Palmer’s lush thickthin ink style added layer upon layer of intricate detail that was not in the pencils. It was this kind of detailed rendering that inspired me and others as inkers, and also inspired the next generation of pencilers.

Scan courtesy Heritage

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

Frank Miller and Klaus Janson Daredevil #189 pg.18 (Marvel, 1982). Klaus Janson took Miller’s sparse layouts and added complex Adams/ Palmer, Giordano inspired rendering and effects such as the duo-tone used in panel one and the zip-a-tone in the last two panels to strongly influence the next generation of pencilers and inkers.

Scan courtesy Heritage

ROUGH STUFF • SPRING 2008

cleaned up details that were vague in the pencils. Knowing the pencils would need to be inked, the penciler would usually draw loosely. Penciling too tightly would lead to tracing in ink, and the spontaneity of the drawing was often lost. Any artist will tell you that his rough sketches are often much more lively than his finished drawings. One of the main challenges of inking (up to now) has been to keep that lively quality of the pencils as you ink. With the advent of monthly deadlines, artists began to use assistants to help with either the drawing or the inking, and the infamous “inker” was born. Inkers were, and mostly still are, usually artists who weren’t as good at layout or dynamic poses but who had a steady hand and good brush control, and had a developed rendering style of their own. Until recent years, nobody ever really set out to become an inker, it just ended up being where their skills were most needed. Joe Sinnott, Frank Giacoia, Vince Colletta, Dick Giordano, Murphy Anderson and Tom Palmer, just to name a few prominent inkers of the ’60s and ’70s, all could draw very well, and they did a good amount of penciling in addition to inking. Palmer only penciled one or two comics, but did a lot of advertising illustration. I imagine he originally had every intention of doing more comic book penciling, but found himself in such strong demand as an inker that he was content to make his mark there. Another prominent inker, Klaus Janson, started his inking career around 1972, but went on

to do a lot of penciling later. My own career began in 1974, doing humor penciling and inking for Marvel’s Crazy magazine. I turned to inking at the suggestion of longtime inker Mike Esposito, who said inking was easier to learn

to comic books with very detailed rendering inspired by

than superhero penciling. I knew nothing about inking at

those newspaper strip artists and magazine illustrators,

Frank Miller and Josef Rubinstein

the time and certainly had never envisioned it being a

Tom Palmer, Dick Giordano and Klaus Janson followed

Wolverine Limited

major portion of my career. Arriving on the scene about

his lead and started adding similar rendering to pencilers

Series #1, page 12

1975, Josef Rubinstein was the first artist I know of who

who had nothing of the sort. They were quickly followed

(Marvel, 1982).

never had any ambitions to pencil comic books and was

by myself, Rubinstein, Terry Austin, and Bob Layton. We

Following Janson’s

only interested in inking other artists. But he was quickly

were the generation called “embellishers” because we

followed by Terry Austin, Bob Wiacek, Bob Layton (there

added a lot of style that wasn’t in the pencils. Young

was even Bob Smith; it seems you almost had to be

artists who saw our comics didn’t really know how much

named Bob to ink comics in the ’70s...) and others.

of that rendering was in the pencils and how much was

I suppose the potential future demise of the inker can

added in the inks, they just wanted their own artwork to

be traced back to Neal, one of the best. In the late

have all that cool rendering, so they started incorporating

1960s, after Neal Adams brought a new kind of realism

it into their pencils, which was the beginning of the end,

lead, Joe Rubinstein added complex rendering to Miller’s pencils, and the following generations of artists just incorporated it all into their penciling.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

it now seems in retrospect. Ignorant of this impending doom, other young artists saw Sinnott, Giordano, Palmer,

is now filled with these inkers who do no penciling. Don’t

Janson, Rubinstein, Layton, Leialoha and Austin all basi-

these young dinosaurs see that meteor coming?

cally doing nothing but inking and apparently thought it

Where my generation had taken mostly loose, open

would be a blast to ink their favorite artists, and to heck

pencils and added our own intricate rendering to polish

with spending years studying penciling. So suddenly a

them up, the new pencilers are drawing so tightly and

whole new generation of inkers entered the business not

putting so much detail in their pencils that the inkers now

Jim Sherman and Bob McLeod Superboy and the Legion of SuperHeroes #242 (DC 1978) Jim Sherman had maybe the tightest pencils I’d seen in 1978, but I still had room to add my style to them in obvious contrast to Joe Rubinstein and Jack Abel, his other usual inkers. But every line I added in the inks is now already there in today’s pencils. Legion of Super-Heroes ©2008 DC Comics

even considering attempting any penciling. The business

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Neal Adams and Dick Giordano Batman #243, page 12 (DC, 1972). Giordano’s chiseled, attractive brush line fit well over Neal’s pencils and influenced a whole generation of young inkers, even more than Neal’s own incredible inks. This is almost 100% brush inking. It’s interesting to note that except for Palmer and myself, almost all of the top inkers of the ’70s were heavily influenced by Dick Giordano, Neal Adams’ primary inker. Palmer was influenced by the same magazine and newspaper strip illustrators as Adams, and I was primarily influenced by Adams and Palmer.

Scan courtesy Heritage

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

Neal Adams The Spectre #5, page 21, DC, 1968 Neal Adams’ intricate fine-line rendering style was new to comic books in the late ’60s, and I think started the trend that’s led to today’s ultra-detailed pencil rendering which could result in the demise of the inker in mainstream comics.

Scan courtesy Heritage

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Neal Adams Vampirella #1, “Goddess From the Sea,” page 6 (Warren, 1969) Neal was noted for his tight pencils for that period, but even these pencils printed without inks are very loose by today’s stan-

Scan courtesy Heritage

dards.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

Marshall Rogers and Terry Austin Dr. Strange #41, p11 (Marvel 1980) Unlike most fans, I never cared for Terry’s cold inks over Byrne’s warm pencils. But I thought his inks were perfect for Marshall’s more angular style. All of the rendering and effects here were Terry’s doing, not found in the pencils.

Scan courtesy Heritage

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

have little to do but follow their line work cleanly. Which

be better not to use an inker! In the end, it may come

is just as well, because many of the new inkers had evi-

down to the desired look of the comic rather than a need

dently assumed that inkers don’t need to draw that well

for the production step of inking. Without inking, you

and evidently never really studied drawing, so they need

don’t get that beautiful thick-to-thin line that artists like

tight pencils to know where to put their super-clean lines.

Frazetta, Joe Kubert, Tom Palmer, Dick Giordano, Klaus

Another interesting thing is that while on the one hand

Janson, Murphy Anderson, Rudy Nebres, Nestor

many new pencilers were putting in a lot of detailed ren-

Redondo, Neal Adams, and many others used to such

dering, on the other hand Japanese manga and anime

great effect. As more and more comics start skipping the

began to influence American comic artists, and many new

inks, we may never see the likes of someone with the

pencilers started using almost no rendering at all. The

beautiful flowing ink lines of Bernie Wrightson again, but

final piece of this inking armageddon is computer color-

today’s young fans who even know who he is (many

ing. It quickly became the norm, doing much of the job of

don’t) probably think his style is old-fashioned anyway,

the inker as far as adding a gradation from light to dark

and prefer the current styles. I can easily see the day

and adding special effects. As someone who loves the art of inking, I hate to see

coming when inking a comic book is relegated to a select few going for a novelty look, much like fully painted

it come to pass, but now inking really just isn’t needed.

comics are today. Publishers, pencilers and colorists will

Many of today’s pencilers’ pages are tight enough to be

no doubt soon be glad to be rid of it. Who will decide?

adjusted in Photoshop, and the colorist can easily add

Today, it’s usually a choice the penciler makes.

gradations of tone previously done in the inks. In fact,

Tomorrow?

many comics that do use inkers now look too dark and muddy because the colorists are competing with the inker to add effects, rather than simply putting in colors. So depending on the style of the penciler, it may actually

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

INTERVIEW

SCOTT WILLIAMS D

By Bob McLeod

oes anyone who reads comics not know who Scott Williams is? He’s of course best known as Jim Lee’s long-time inker, but he’s of course inked several other top artists as well. Other inkers use him as a

study guide, as he’s generally considered the “inker’s inker.” He’s also a great guy, and I was excited

to get a chance to interview him for Rough Stuff.

BOB McLEOD: Scott, welcome to Rough Stuff! Many

although I also use Rotring Rapidoliners as well. They are

other inkers tell me that among the inkers working today,

rapidographs with disposable cartridges and tips, which

you’re the one they most admire. They’ll all be dying to

aren’t nearly the maintenance

know so I must ask: I assume you use the usual Hunt 102

nightmare that tradition-

nib and Raphael 8404 #2 brush, but if not, can you tell us

al rapidographs

what tools and ink you typically use and prefer? SCOTT WILLIAMS: You are correct about which tools I use specifically,

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

usually

SCOTT WILLIAMS Wolverine trading card From an X-Men card set circa mid ’90s. Looks okay, but now I think Wolvie should be beefier. I guess I was thinking that this is Wolverine using his tracking skills, but I have no idea what he’s looking for. Wolverine TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

are. The problem is that they are no longer made, and

always hated rapidographs until I found them, because

I’ve been trying to buy what I can off of eBay, where the

they always clogged. I can leave the cap off my

supply is really dwindling. If anyone out there has a

Rapidoliners for weeks and pick them up, shake them a

stockpile of .17 or .25 cartridges, drop me a line and I’ll

little, wet the tip a bit and they’re up and running. I use

make it worth your while!

the .25 and .35. I’m really sorry to hear they’ve been discontinued. I used them for panel borders and straight

McLEOD: Well you can’t have mine! I thought I was the

lines. I could even get some line variation with them by

only one who had discovered those Rapidoliners! I

pressing down harder or easier. I love those pens.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

SCOTT WILLIAMS All-Star Batman and Robin #9, pg. 22 Jim Lee: pencils Scott Williams: inks This was all about creating mood. I wanted the sky to be just dumping rain, so I used an inked tissue to create a drybrush effect. I think it was effective, but I wish I had put more rain and splatter throughout the rest of the piece. Batman and Robin ©2008 DC Comics

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

is, and is what I use about

BOB McLEOD

85% of the time. It allows the

Notice that as tight

most versatility. Unfortunately,

and rendered as these

good brushes are getting hard-

pencils by Jim Lee

er and harder to find, and I am a real slave to the quality of the tools I use.

are, Scott’s interpreting, not tracing in his inks. The changes are

McLEOD: It seems all inking tools are in a constant state of

subtle and not even noticeable at first, but

decline. The ink they had up

they’re effective and

into the ’70s was just so much

the more you look, the

smoother and blacker, it just

more you find. Inking

flowed out of the brush. The

isn’t just about mak-

old Gillotte 290 nib that Stan

ing clean lines, but

Drake and Neal Adams used

about making deci-

was far superior to the Hunt

sions and choices.

102. Now it’s been remade

and it’s a different, inferior nib. Brushes have really declined. The Raphael just doesn’t have the same snap the old Winsor & Newton series 7 had. But even those aren’t as good as they used to be. Even Frazetta and Wrightson would struggle with today’s tools. The old Marvel paper was even better than the most recent stuff I’ve used. WILLIAMS:: Quality tools dramatically improve not only my work, but my enjoyment of the process. It’s actually a bit of an Achilles Heel for me, and I really admire those guys that can ink with a rusty nail WILLIAMS: I use them because they provide a nice deadweight line, which is a respite from my usually energetic, calligraphic thin/thick line. They are particularly good for backgrounds and cityscapes as the thinner, more brittle line recedes, and effortlessly creates the illusion of space/depth. I also just like having variations of cyphers and textures on a given page. McLEOD: All that wonderful subtlety that I fear 95% of readers never even notice. If the average reader knew all the little things we inkers add to the art, they’d be amazed. Do you have a preference for either brush or pen, and if so, why? WILLIAMS: A brush is about as versatile a tool as there

and not miss a beat. I’m quite the inking sissy-boy! McLEOD: Well, I guess you might consider me one of those rusty nail guys. I’ll ink with dead and split brushes and just about any nib or marker I pick up, but it’s only because it’s so hard to find quality brushes and nibs anymore, I just don’t usually bother trying. I have to adjust my expectations to the tools I’m using, though. Nobody can do the same lines with a Raphael that they can with a good Winsor & Newton, because they just have a different feel and response. The Hunt 102s break on me if I try to flick them around the way I did the old Gillottes. Assuming you make an occasional mistake like

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

BOB McLEOD

the rest of us mortals, how do you

Once again, the more

correct it, white-out or electric

you look, the more

eraser, or digitally?

you find. Scott’s doing an awful lot of thinking here over deceptively sketchy pencils. Try following them too closely and you’ll blow it. Jim’s

WILLIAMS: Basic white-out (ProWhite) for corrections, white ink (FW) for white ink work and splatter, and an occasional white gel pen or Pentel correction fluid pen for on the spot/quick corrections. I don’t do any digital work at this point, stubborn to my old school

guiding Scott, not try-

ways. That will probably bite me in

ing to give him every-

the arse sooner than later.

McLEOD: Yeah, computers are gnawing at all of our heels. I’ve done some computer inking and coloring and lettering, but there’s just nothing like working on paper. Do you ink methodically or randomly? Do you jump right in or do warm-up strokes? WILLIAMS: I’ve been inking professionally since 1985, and in those first couple of years, I would do warm-ups. I’d fill up pages with circles and lines and crosshatching. No longer. McLEOD: Yeah, I never did warmups. I was surprised to hear some inkers do that. I just warmed up by doing the less important lines first. Do you ink one page at a time, starting in the upper left corner or

several pages at a time, whatever strikes your fancy? Any

hand over it. That’s one reason I started xeroxing the

particular reason?

pencils before I inked them, so I could refer to them if

WILLIAMS: I also tend to go against the grain with other

something got smeared.

inkers in that I often start at the lower right hand corner

WILLIAMS: Other than that, I’m very random in my

of the page and work my way up. Even though I have to

approach, and almost never finish a page from beginning

pay more attention to running my hand through those

to end, working on multiple pages at a time. I tend to do

accursed ink puddles, I want to avoid smearing some of

the most important elements when I feel the freshest, and

the subtle pencil shading that influence my inking deci-

feel like I’m in the zone. This is especially important when

sions. I may not follow the penciler's line or detail verba-

using a brush, because you can’t be lazy or sloppy with a

tim, but I want the option on what to edit, and not have it

brush. It’s just not very forgiving and has so much horse

taken out of my hands by the disappearance of said line.

power, that you’ve got to really be on top of your game.

McLEOD: I often would do that, too. I don’t know if

McLEOD: That’s how Joe Rubinstein works. I tried doing

you’ve ever inked Gene Colan, but he puts so much soft

that, but I just prefer finishing up a page at a time so I

lead down on the page it’s a blurry mess if you rub your

feel like I’m making headway on the job. Usually, the

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

SCOTT WILLIAMS All-Star Batman and Robin #10, cover Jim Lee: pencils Scott Williams: inks Pretty typical of what I’m doing with Jim these days. I add quite a bit of texture with dry-brush and splatter. Some of the rendering on Batman’s arms was a little vague, so I defined the shadows a bit, and tightened up Batman’s right hand, which were implied, but not specific. Batman and Robin ©2008 DC Comics

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

SCOTT WILLIAMS Silver Surfer This is a very recent work, done for my own pleasure, and to be included in a sketchbook for the ‘08 convention season. As I was beginning this, I had both Kirby and Buscema in the back of my mind, and ended up rifting on both and neither. It’s pretty much just me, although I think all the little planets are pretty reminiscent of the ’60s Surfer cosmic vibe. Perhaps I was actually channeling Sinnot! Not so sure about adding that big ringed planet in the inked stage. Kind of throws the balance off a bit. Silver SurferTM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

most I’ll do is start a second page while the

BOB McLEOD

inks drying on the first one. But you’re right

This scene seems

that when your brush is behaving, it’s best

simple at first, but...

to get as much out of it as you can.

where to put the

WILLIAMS: Sloppy pen work, by contrast,

planets? How many to

can be finessed back to life more easily.

put? What size?

And when I’m tired or bored, I do more of

There’s no book on

the deadweight stuff with the Rapidoliners,

composition that

such as background elements or tech stuff. I

answers these

hardly ever use templates or straight edges because it can look mechanical and soul-

questions. It’s all

less, and it’s frankly more fun to do that stuff

subjective judgment.

freehand.

But it is helpful to study what other good

McLEOD: We used to always do most

artists chose to do

everything freehand in the ’70s. Russ Heath

with a similar scene.

used to ink tanks with a #4 brush! Terry

It’s also helpful to do

Austin and particularly Bob Layton on Iron

thumbnails experi-

Man started using a lot of ellipse guides and

menting with various

rulers, and then the styles in the ’80s dra-

compositional

matically moved toward crisp, mechanically

adjustments.

precise pen lines and away from the loose,

flowing brush styles. You would have had a ball in the ’70s. We could have used you in the Crusty Bunkers, where Neal would get a job and let anyone at Continuity ink on it. Did you start out as an assistant to anyone, and do you or would you ever use an inking assistant? WILLIAMS: My first paying ink gig was assisting Whilce Portacio

ment is obvious.

on Art Adams’ Longshot series and Chris Warner’s Alien Legion. I have used assistants in the past, most extensively in the first few years of Image. I was working on three books at the same time, and I used guys for filling in blacks, background work and clean up. At one point, I even had a good buddy of mine, JD, do some figure work for me. I had mixed feelings at the time, because even though these guys did good work for me, and allowed me to maintain an impossible work schedule, I was losing control over the final look of things. I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to my work, and really want my stuff to look a certain way, even when it’s flawed. In fact, I have a hard time imagining someone else inking my pencils, even if they did brilliant work. The irony of that state-

McLEOD: Ha! I’ve never really been happy with others inking my pencils, and I’ve had some of the best inkers in the business. Inkers just can’t help changing things, and I guess I usually have different priorities than they do. I tried using background inking assistants, but I usually ended up going over their work. I’ve even used family members just to fill in blacks, but always regretted it. WILLIAMS: Currently, I occasionally use someone to erase pages for me, and white out the obvious mistakes. That’s about as much control as I’m willing to give up. I can’t even use an assistant for filling in blacks because I do so much brush work, I fill in the blacks as I go, and my blacks are rarely flat blacks. I tend to include “texture” in my blacks, which adds atmosphere and depth. I think SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

just delineating outlines and filling them in looks flat, and

hours sitting at the drawing board. I’ve heard about

lacks the spontaneity which I have desperately tried to

inkers spending over 20 hours on a single page! How

incorporate in my work.

long does the average page take you to ink, and how many hours a day do you work? Do you like to start

McLEOD: The Filipino guys used to do a lot of that,

early, or work late into the night?

crosshatching black areas to add texture. At the height of

WILLIAMS: I’ve always said that I averaged eight hours a

my career, the average page could be inked in four to six

page, give or take. That’s actual work time, and does not

hours, but inking today’s comics can require many long

include breaks. My speed probably peaked ten years ago, and I am definitely slower and less efficient than I used to be. That is not a good thing, but it is reality. I think it’s the mileage of my career that is taking a toll. I still love the medium and the work, but the novelty is long gone, and whereas I used to happily work 15 hour days,

SCOTT WILLIAMS

a perfect day for

Star Trek Next

me is about a five-

Generation

hour day.

Wildstorm was making a pitch to land the Star Trek license for a line of books, and I was afforded a

Deadlines being what they are, a five-hour day is not always practical, but that’s about the limit of my

rare opportunity to

peak performance,

try my hand at doing

and the drop-off is

likenesses. I was

gradual after that. I

successful in that

like having a life

you can tell which

outside of comics,

ST:TNG crew member

whereas comics

is which. However,

really was my life

the subtleties that

in those first ten

some one like a Mort Drucker or a Drew

years (sad to say but true!).

Struzan can display show how limited my skills are. I do think Worf and the Borg

McLEOD: That’s pretty typical. I worked 16-hour days starting out,

came out pretty well

and did little but

though. Oh, and we

study comic art

got the license!

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

SCOTT WILLIAMS Cyclops Another recent piece for my sketchbook, and a work in progress you might say. The final pencils here look too blandly vanilla—not enough of a light source (which should come from Cyclops visor), so I will probably add a more blacks. I might stylize the shapes with more angles. An energetic ink style with bold dry-brush strokes? Something! Cyclops TM & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

and do comic art. There’s just so much to learn, and it’s

probably be

also so exciting just to be doing comics in the beginning.

described as

You’re one of the most respected inkers working today.

superstars relative

Do you think inkers in general get more or less respect

to inking (guys like

in the industry and among fans now compared to when

Klaus Janson, Terry

you started?

Austin, Joe

WILLIAMS: Honestly, I don’t know. I know that for me,

Rubinstein) in the

an inker was an absolutely huge factor in my assessment

professional gener-

of any given art job, but that probably says more about

ation just prior to

explaining my career choices than it does about the

my entry to

regard in which inkers were held. I don’t know what

the field, but the

the casual comic fan thought of inkers, or even under-

number was few,

stood what inkers did in years past. Certain guys could

as it is today. I’m

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

of editors who really know what a good ink job is. I think it is also in the interest of the comic companies to try and keep the inkers value marginalized—the last thing they need (from their standpoint) is another “superstar” on the team, another ego, or another demand for an increase in compensation. Having said that, I don’t think this was ever a career choice that put the inker square in the spotlight and on equal footing with the writer or penciler. Inkers certainly matter more than they are perceived, but that is and was the nature of the beast. McLEOD: You’ve certainly made your mark as an inker, and while some fans always have doubts about inkers’ drawing skills, I know it’s impossible to do great inking without being able to draw well. Do you plan to ever do any penciling for comics, or are you content to do only inking? Do you do any art other than inking outside of comic books? WILLIAMS: I certainly can draw, but not as well or as fast as the guys I ink. At least, that’s where things stand at the moment. If I ever took the plunge, and went to penciling full time, no one, including myself, knows where it would lead. I have an idea about where my strengths and my limitations lie, and it would surprise me if I never make a strong push to see what I can achieve. Having said that, I’ve been inking for well over 20 years, I’m 48 years old, and the clock is ticking. I would think that if I don’t make some sort of transition within the next five years, I never will. McLEOD: Well, I know we’d all like to see you give it a shot. I always penciled as well as inked, but I not sure that there are any inking

did tend to do more inking

superstars today, at least in terms of the

just because I was faster at

marketing of comics. It’s fairly hit and

it and could make more

miss whether inkers are included in the

money inking, and there

solicitation and commerce of comics.

was more of a demand for my inking. You’re usually

McLEOD: Yeah, I think as the pencils

paired with Jim Lee. Is that

have gotten tighter, and many comics

only because you’re

have been printed straight from the pen-

friends and he likes your

cils, the perception has grown that the

style and requests you, or

inker doesn’t add all that much to the

is there something in par-

art. And in reality that obviously varies a

ticular about his pencils

great deal from job to job and inker to

that appeals to you?

inker, but the perception is still there.

WILLIAMS: Regarding Jim, at this point I could say that’s

WILLIAMS: At the same time, I’m not sure there are a lot

it’s just inertia. You know, it’s been going good for so

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

SCOTT WILLIAMS Jim Lee: layout Scott Williams: finishes X-Men group shot During our initial run on X-Men, Jim started penciling this piece, perhaps as a cover, but abandoned it. Some 15 years later, a fan commissioned me to finish it, and I tried to give it some of the old and some of the new. My pencils, finishing what Jim started were an attempt to channel his tendencies, though clearly I had to bring some of my own sensibilities to bear, particularly having nothing more than a gesture to work with on the Beast. As to the inks, I used to primarily use a Hunt 102 and Gillott 805 back in the early ’90s, and I’m mostly brush now. I think that fact updates this piece a bit. X-Men T & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc.

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

long, why not just keep at it? But really, I think it’s funda-

hatching from those Homage Studio days, I probably

mentally about mutual respect. I really like how Jim draws,

would have said adios some time ago. Or I would be

and I think he really likes how I interpret him. Now if you’d

blind. Or both.

told me almost 20 years ago that I’d still be inking Jim’s work more often than not, I’d have thought you were

McLEOD: Who are some other pencilers you especially

drunk. It just doesn’t happen in comics that much. Having

enjoy inking?

said that, I think Jim’s artwork has continued to improve

WILLIAMS: Other pencilers I’ve inked? Tough call. I’ve

over the last 20 years, and that doesn’t happen that

liked all of it to one degree or another. Except Travis

much either. I think we complement each other well. One

Charest. Brilliant artist and a great guy. Pain in the ass to

caveat—if Jim had continued doing all that crazy cross-

ink. But Whilce Portacio taught me a lot about how to

SCOTT WILLIAMS John Buscema

make an inked page look sharp, so hats off to him. Mark Silvestri was/is great,

Heroes I came close to inking John Buscema, an art hero of mine,

especially when he was at his most organic. John Romita Jr was a lot of fun— I’d do that again.

on several occasions, but something

McLEOD: JRJR is great

always seemed to

fun to ink. He gives the

get in the way. Life is

inker so much room to play.

full of regrets, and

Almost as much fun as

this is one of mine.

John Buscema. He was a

This piece, half

blast to ink. Anyone you

inked, was done in

haven’t inked who you’d

the early-to-mid-’90s for a Marvel project that I was to ink John for. Something happened (I don’t

really like a shot at? WILLIAMS: If John Buscema were still with us, I’d love a shot at that. I had three separate opportunities to ink John, and all

know what), and this

three didn’t happen

is as far as I got

because I couldn’t fit into

before the plug was

my schedule. Talk about

pulled. I always

regrets! Other than that,

intended to go back

who would I most like to

and finish it, but now,

take a shot at? I’ll give you

after all these years,

two words. Frank (and)

I’m grateful that

Miller.

there’s still some pure Buscema pencils preserved. This is inked with a Hunt 102, though you better believe I would ink it with a brush

McLEOD: I inked Frank’s first couple jobs at Marvel! He was so much fun because he was doing such interesting things with lighting, and backgrounds. But I never inked him after

now!

he developed and really

figured out what he was

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

doing. Klaus got all that

fun. I know you’re a big

SCOTT WILLIAMS

Neal Adams fan, as am I.

GenActive Splash

Have you ever inked any-

I penciled and inked

thing by Neal?

an eight-page story for

WILLIAMS: I inked Neal on

a Wildstorm anthology

the cover to X-Men/Wildcats

series about nine

crossover about ten years

years ago, and this is

ago. It was a fun experience,

a splash from it. You

but like a lot of things, I felt

can see that I pen-

a bit rushed by the deadline, so my overall memory of the

ciled the thumbnail

job and the results are a

right on the plot, and

mixed bag in my mind. I

you can also see how

guess Neal liked it well

I followed directions!

enough though, which he

This story, though for-

conveyed to me personally,

gettable, is where I

and has in fact asked me to

fell in love with the

ink him on an upcoming

brush again, and what

project. It has the potential

gave me the idea to

to be a real highlight of my

continue that switch

career, or a total crash and

when we started the

burn!

Batman: Hush project soon after.

McLEOD: I suspect it will be fantastic. I can’t think of anyone I’d rather see have a go at Neal, other than myself! I would love to have inked him. Do you think your style is a good fit for Neal, or is his style too much of another era? WILLIAMS: Actually, I think there are probably a quite a few pencilers that I would not be appropriate for, but Neal is not one of them. He had such an impact on my view of how comics can be penciled

McLEOD: The only problem

and inked, that I think some of his

with inking Neal is that, perhaps

ink line is in my DNA. I could never

like Joe Kubert, it’s hard to

make it look as effortless as Neal of

imagine anyone inking him any

course, and can’t match his ability to

better than he would himself,

draw while inking, but the sensibili-

particularly in his glory days. But

ties he brings are something I’d be

what fun to try! Do you generally

comfortable with. Frankly, if I ran into

like inking breakdowns or fin-

a problem while inking him, I’d pull

ished pencils more, and why?

out some of his best work and just

WILLIAMS: I guess it depends

ape it.

on how well I understand what a penciler is trying to do, and

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

SCOTT WILLIAMS Neal Adams X-Men/WildCATS cover This was by far the most intimidated I ever felt in inking a piece. How to approach inking a personal drawing god? In the end, the deadline eliminated the luxury of contemplation, and I just went by instinct. Even though the paper did not take the ink very well, I found the best passages were accomplished with brush. I think I could be more successful on an Adams job the next time around. X-Men T & ©2008 Marvel Characters, Inc. Wildcats ©2008 Wildstorm Studios

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

because you haven’t done

BOB McLEOD

enough penciling to figure out

Neal is just so diffi-

exactly who Scott Williams is,

cult to ink. In less

artistically. Inkers need to be

capable hands, this

chameleons to a certain extent, if they’re going to be inking a variety of pencilers. I think the best breakdown inkers are other pencilers, because they know where they want to go once

piece could easily have been an overrendered, confusing mess. But Scott really clarified everything

they have a layout. But styles

and made this

have changed so much. You

extremely complex

were in the vanguard of the so-

scene very readable.

called “new school” or “West Coast” school of inking. How do you feel your inking theory differs from prior generations?

WILLIAMS: I’ve never really thought about my inking theory before. I’m not sure I even have one. I simply looked at those who came before me, tried to emulate their style, failed, and those failures became my style. McLEOD: That’s very interesting to hear. It’s not the answer I would have expected from you. I think we all develop that way to an extent, but I’m sure it’s more than just failure to emulate. We absorb techniques from various sources, both consciously and subconsciously, and they eventually gel into our personal style. where my comfort zone with it is. I have a pretty good

WILLIAMS: I did try and think

understanding of what Jim does, for example, and could

about an appropriate style based on the project I worked

handle some looser pencils. For the most part however,

on. When I did the Punisher for example, I had a looser,

inking breakdowns leaves me second-guessing myself

more organic line, and emphasized shadow and blacks.

too much. And while doing finishes might scratch a cre-

When I did stuff like X-Men or Wildcats, I thought of that

ative itch, it’s got the no win caveat in that if it looks

as a more sci-fi, high tech type of situation, so I really

good, the penciler will get the credit, and if it doesn’t, I’d

tried to do clean, crisp line work. Now I’ve gone back to

shoulder the blame. We inkers are a little insecure at

the organic stuff with Batman, really playing with more

times!

dry brush effects, and pushing textures with splatter and white paint. Having said all that, I’m not sure how much

McLEOD: The penciler can get the credit if he generally

“style” I’ve invented from whole cloth. Maybe a few

does tight pencils, but I never got that feeling inking

cyphers, which were probably all variations of other inkers’

Buscema’s breakdowns, because his were so loose he

cyphers. Whatever the “New School” or “West Coast”

looked very different depending on who inked him. I sus-

thing was, it’s pretty much gone now. Pull out an issue of

pect that the reason you second-guess yourself is

WildCATS, and compare it to what I’m doing now, and

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

it’s just not the same. In fact, I recently did a faithful

WILLIAMS: Okay, you’ve heard it before, but the most

recreation of the cover to Uncanny X-Men #268 as a

important thing in being a good inker is knowing how to

wedding present for a buddy of mine. It was hard!

draw! At the very least, have basic drafting skills.

I simply don’t make those kinds of lines anymore. McLEOD: Thank you! I’m constantly harping on that! So McLEOD: I’ve done a couple recreations of my early

many young inkers don’t want to bother learning to draw.

work, and I have such a strong desire to ink it the way I

WILLIAMS: If it was really just about going over another

would today, rather than imitate strokes from 30 years

artist’s pencil lines, everybody could and would do it.

ago. What advice do you have for young inkers starting

Also, inking in particular lends itself to looking at who

out today? What’s the best way to become a good inker,

came before you, and how they problem solved. Also, ink

in your opinion?

with energy, quickly, with bounce in your line. Make it seem effortless, even when it’s not. Let the tool, whether it be brush or pen, make the marks it was designed to make, and emphasize as many variations of those marks as the tool will allow. And when in doubt, black it out! McLEOD: I think that’s excellent advice. You’ve obviously been very successful, but would you recommend inking as a career to others? WILLIAMS: Career-wise, it’s a great choice, as long as you love it, you’re good at it, and you don’t covet the spotlight or want to get rich.

SCOTT WILLIAMS Barry WindsorSmith Deathmate These were some very loose pencils by BWS, at least in

McLEOD: You have an impressive original art collection of other artists, which readers can see at www.comicartfans.com. Do you collect original art just

terms of rendering.

because you like it, or as

Barry’s’ rendering

an investment, and do you

always fascinated

study the art you collect to

me as a fan with its

learn from it?

intricate and modu-

WILLIAMS: I probably

lated crosshatching,

have an art collection for all

so I really tried to

the obvious reasons. First

channel some of that

off, I started collecting art

sensibility in my

because, as they say,

approach. This is all

It’s rather nerdy to collect

pen work.

everybody needs a hobby.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Adams’ rendition of Batman for the first time, Barry Smith

BOB McLEOD

on Conan for the first time, John Buscema on Silver

Boy, some pencilers

Surfer for the first time. Those were amazing and revela-

really make you earn

tory times as a 12-year-old, and I enjoy reliving at least a

your money. This may

piece of that, every time I look at one of my originals.

be some of my favorite inking I’ve

McLEOD: My favorite piece in your collection is that Frazetta jungle girl. The spontaneity and looseness of his inking just dazzles me. So much artistry! But that kind of

seen by Scott. I love the way he kept the flavor of Barry’s own

art is just way out of my price range. WILLIAMS: The one part of collecting art that I didn’t

inking over these very

count on when I first started collecting almost 30 years

loose pencils while

ago, is the staggering jump in prices/values of the clas-

still also adding his

sic Silver Age art that I socket. I think prices today are

own style on top of it.

very over-inflated.

Very impressive.

All things being equal, I’d prefer the art was more affordable, because the collector in me is always wanting

See more of Scott’s art

more. But I won’t lie—there is a bit of an adrenaline rush

on the Rough Stuff

when I consummate a potential five-figure art deal. The

page of my web site

only limitation I extend upon myself is that all my art col-

at http://www.

lecting has to be self-generating. Cash funding and trades must come from art that I already own. Producing marketable art myself offers me an obvious advantage.

bobmcleod.com/ williamsrs.html

McLEOD: Yes, I traded for most of the art I own. Where do you see inking trending in the future? Do you think things, especially pop culture artifacts, so to that extent,

inking will continue to be an important part of comic

I’m a bit of nerd. But it was also a logical extension/

book art in coming decades, or do you think its days are

progression of my interest in collecting the comic books

numbered in mainstream comics?

themselves (and yes, I handled them carefully and put

WILLIAMS: I don’t have a crystal ball. It seems technolo-

them in bags and all that jazz). As I started taking more

gy is always making someone’s job obsolete, and that’s

of an interest in comics as both an art form and a career,

not just limited to inking or comics. But you would think

the physical, hold-in-your-hands original piece of the

that adopting new technologies (like digital inking)

creative process was more interesting to me than the

implies an improvement in the product. To my eye, digital

final mass-produced comic itself. Additionally, you do

inking is a poor step-child to traditional methods.

learn a lot about the craft in seeing how the ink line goes

Anecdotal evidence suggests the fans don’t appreciate

down, the use of white out effects and all the hands on

digital inking either. It will surely come down to the bot-

techniques used that are not visible on the printed page.

tom line—profitability. If comics are more profitable being

Even the larger size of the originals showed me what

inked digitally (and I don’t know if that is the case at all),

reduction/reproduction ratios needed to be in my own

then that’s what will happen.

work in order to be successful. McLEOD: I certainly think that will be a dark day if that’s McLEOD: Absolutely. As with all art, seeing the original

ever the case. Lets hope it doesn’t. Scott, thanks very

up close is vastly different from seeing it reproduced in

much for this interview. You’ve been great. I appreciate

print. What else drives your choices in collecting art?

your candidness, and I know our readers will, too.

WILLIAMS: I suppose the other symptom (pathology?)

WILLIAMS: Thanks for allowing me to blather.

of collecting art is nostalgia. The art and the comics that inspired me so much in my youth, so much in fact that they helped form a career path, compel me to want to reexamine those moments of discovery. Seeing Neal

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROUGH CRITIQUE By Bob McLeod

his month we have a nice, action-packed Batman sample page from the very talented Rudy Vasquez. I’m sure you’ll be seeing him working in mainstream comics soon. He’s very close to being ready, and may in fact get work before this critique is published. Rudy, your rendering is very advanced, so perhaps you should consider ink-

ing while you work on improving your penciling, as I did at the start of my career. Your anatomy is coming along pretty well, and your figures have a lot of weight and form. They look alive and dynamic. You’re also moving the camera around well. But you do have some problems that really need to be addressed. Even something as basic as the panel layout is important and can cause problems if not thought out carefully. Deleting the gutter between panels can cause forms in adjacent panels to combine into distracting shapes, such as in panel 5, where Batman appears to be growing out of the creature’s thigh from panel 4. Moving Batman down a bit helps fix that. Next, it’s important to try to balance the page as a whole. Yours is a bit too heavily weighted on the left, with so many large forms placed there. By flopping panels 2 & 3, the large forms in those panels add some needed balance on the right. As with most every artist I see, pro(!) and amateur alike, your perspective is off. Every horizontally slanted line in the backgrounds should be receding toward a common vanishing point on the horizon. Your lines in panel 1 appear to be receding to a point far below the horizon established by the woman lying on the floor. Now let’s look panel by panel. Panel 1: When placing forms in your panels, you want to avoid stacking them vertically on top of each other as you did here. It’s better to stagger them, or at least line them up diagonally rather than vertically. All composition is usually better when based on diagonals rather than verticals and horizontals. Remember that when positioning arms and legs, etc. Watch out for tangents, too, such as the sword point touching Batman’s arm (it should overlap Batman to add depth), and the creature’s knee bumping the heads of the onlookers (raise it up). Your creature is moving to the left, leading our eye off the page. He should ideally move toward the right, to lead us to the next panel. We also need to see his hand holding the sword, so it doesn’t appear to be hanging in space. I think her hand needs to be moved up so she doesn’t appear to be grabbing the panel border. Her fingers are awkwardly spread, too. It’s better to turn the hand slightly. Panel 2: Batman’s right hand appears to be growing out of his armpit, with no arm, and his skull is too tall. You’re having trouble with heads in general, so study up on the skull. Never point a sword or any other object directly into the corner of the panel like this. It’s bad design, and it causes us to look at the panel border, which takes us out of the story. The wall should be bigger on the right and smaller on the left as it recedes toward a vanishing point on the horizon. Simply slanting it like this isn’t enough.

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

Panel 3: The thrown sword appears to be falling, because the handle is dragging it down. Lift the handle up a bit. We need to see the creature’s hand holding his sword. It appears to be attached to his wing. Batman’s right hand is lost in a mess of lines and details. Heads and hands need to be placed where we can see them, because they’re important elements telling the story. Don’t neglect them. Lastly, his left arm is poorly foreshortened.

Panel 4: You need to move the creature’s head down (and his left foot up) off of the panel border. His left shoulder is dislocated and his crotch is too wide. It’s a nice shot of him, but it doesn’t show us that he’s dropping her well enough, because she’s anchored to the bottom of the panel. Every panel can’t be an equally eye-popping close-up or the storytelling suffers. Sometimes you need to pull back the camera and show entire figures. But simply showing her falling out of the panel as I did works okay. I don’t like cropping off forms unless it’s really necessary, so I’d rather see at least one of his hands. Panel 5: Again, she doesn’t look like she’s falling because you’ve anchored her to the panel border. And her collar is cutting into her neck, decapitating her. She also has an angular right breast, and her facial features are skewed. And how many knuckles does she have on the fingers of that left hand? This is a good chance to draw a sexier shot showing some leg, and by drawing her smaller I was better able to make her look like she’s falling. Panel 6: If she just fell into his arms, she must’ve fallen right through his head! Ouch! And again, what’s with her square breast? That’s some fiery-looking hair, too. Is she putting grease on it? Otherwise, some stray hairs would separate. Batman’s head looks scrunched down into his chest. In fact, the figures look squeezed into this tiny triangular panel anyway. You should avoid using small, angled panels like this because there’s not enough room to draw in them, and the pointed corners can become a problem. You really need a long shot here rather than a close-up. So before you go putting all that cool rendering on everything, Rudy, work more on the layout and structure of your figures, and study the female form (what more enjoyable homework could you ask for?) Then you’ll really be ready for the big time. I know you can do it! Thick-skinned readers who would like a Rough Critique should send me a sample page at: P.O. Box 63 Emmaus, PA 18049

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

ROUGH TALK The guys over at TwoMorrows sent me a review copy of issue #8 and I think Rough Stuff is great. I wasn’t aware of the magazine, but now that I’ve seen it, I think it’s a terrific idea. I do the Dossier column for Heavy Metal and I’ll be plugging your mag as soon as I can. Anyway, great job. I look forward to future issues. Cordially, Steve Ringgenberg

I purchased the first few issues of Back Issue because I supported the concept of its publication and thought it would be a good opportunity to see some artwork in its raw state. On that note, Rough Stuff definitely delivered and I really enjoyed seeing the pencils/inked page comparisons and artists’ thoughts about approaching each page highlighted in the mag. I think I would have preferred a bit more text to accompany the artwork. I can’t recall specifically why I stopped picking up the magazine, but it may have had something to do with the price tag. Compared to Alter Ego and Back Issue, which provide me with several hours of reading enjoyment, I can flip through an issue of Rough Stuff in 15-20 minutes. Not a criticism, but just wanted to let you know the reason why I stopped picking up the magazine. I’d love to hear your thoughts about format changes to upcoming issues! Kind Regards, Yoram Matzkin [Thanks for that insight, Yoram. This issue we have interviews with every featured artist, as well as their comments on their art, and an article by me on the changing role of inkers. So that should give you quite a bit more to read, in addition to all the great artwork. Upcoming issues will have more articles and interviews, and I’m trying to find room for more art instruction. –Ed.]

ROUGH STUFF • SUMMER 2008

I really like the direction you’ve been going over the course of your run as editor, Bob. (I realize you were thrown into the mix late in the stages of issue #1). Adding more descriptive comments from the artists on their artwork has been far more enriching than straight forward/obvious blurbs pointing out, for example, who the characters are in a particular drawing. The more involved interviews are also a very welcome part of each book, especially when they have not appeared previously in other Twomorrows books (The Townsend and Severin pieces were both top notch). I like the length of the interviews as you’ve had them in recent issues. Long enough to be informative, but not too long as to be a chore to get through (I love all that Roy packs into Alter Ego each issue, but keeping up with that title requires far more leisure time than I currently have). The Rough Critique remains a favorite column... I love to read it and see your examples for how the artists can improve. I am also glad that it is not my work being reviewed, as you don’t hold back with your honest appraisals! [Nor would the artists want me to, from what they’ve told me! –Ed.] For me, the text and written content is what differentiates Rough Stuff from, say, looking at straight images of art on a site like CAF [www.comicartfans.com –Ed.]. I like knowing that when I buy Rough Stuff that I am going to be getting information that goes deeper than your typical posting on CAF. (Not a criticism of CAF, which I love and —like Rough Stuff—support with my wallet). Best, Brian Sagar

The one thing that you don’t see in most magazines today are artists talking about the art. We do get artists, but they talk about the series and who thought of this plot twist (which is good, but that is what it is). The Marie [Severin] article discussing her cover designs was great, and I enjoy that. It gives you a feel of the dynamics of the Bullpen, of her working style, and

how some very nice covers of the era were developed. If you were young and clueless (like me), you’d see these covers by Sal [Buscema] or George Tuska and not exactly put together that the design elements in the cover are similar because there was a cover designer. And yet, that same stupid person (me) would have no problem understanding [Dave] Cockrum & [Ed] Hannigan’s run as cover designers, later on. A lot of people’s knowledge comes from first impressions, I find (and what they were capable of noticing at that point in time.) Anyway! [I’d like to see] Character sketches, pencils, designs, discussions about what you can do versus what the production technology allowed for. Where the penciler stopped; where the inker began. Or is he the embellisher? (Plus, I’d say in response to the overly detailed pencils of now, the role of the embellisher has moved from the guy rendering in ink, to the guy doing the colors. Which means the full penciler better have chops: a Joe Sinnott who can erase lines and shift bodies around is no longer available at that level in the production. Of course, we as kids always tried to do the full drawing “as published” because that’s all we saw in comic books, anyway: how many kids know or see layouts or “finished enuff” pencils that inkers can really interpret over?) Enough yammering. Here’s a thought: bring us some Sal Buscema. Back in the day, Sal provided pencils with lots of room for you guys to interpret. I’d like to see before and afters. I’d like to see talks with inkers transformed to pencilers (Dan Green, Steve Leialoha, yourself. I don’t know what can be found for Gene Day, Tom Sutton)...

artists but artists that are ready for prime time! There was a Spider-Man submission from a few issues ago [by Stephen Molnar –Ed.] that (though there were a few needed tweaks) was really amazing. Thanks for the great work! David Dembkoski

Thank you for the latest deliveries, which included The Best of Write Now, Modern Masters: Mike Allred and Rough Stuff, which was especially exciting for me with the pencil work by DeZuniga and the European artists. More from that crowd please! Jolyon SEND YOUR ROUGH COMMENTS TO:

email: mcleod.bob@gmail.com (subject: Rough Stuff) or snail mail: Bob McLeod, Editor- Rough Stuff, P.O. Box 63 Emmaus, PA 18049

Bryan W. Headley

Every issue I pick up at my local store (I have four of your [TwoMorrows] titles as a standing order) makes me want to send you guys an e-mail telling you how much I love your magazines. I just picked up the latest Rough Stuff and I have to tell you how much I love the “Critique” Section. Not only is it a fantastic idea—but over the span of the magazine you’ve showcased not only aspiring

SUMMER 2008 • ROUGH STUFF

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BEST OF DRAW! VOL. 3

BEST OF DRAW! VOL. 4

Compiles more of the best tutorials and interviews from DRAW! #5-7, including: Penciling by MIKE WIERINGO! Illustration by DAN BRERETON! Design by PAUL RIVOCHE! Drawing Hands, Lighting the Figure, and Sketching by BRET BLEVINS! Cartooning by BILL WRAY! Inking by MIKE MANLEY! Comics & Animation by STEPHEN DeSTEFANO! Digital Illustration by CELIA CALLE and ALBERTO RUIZ! Caricature by ZACH TRENHOLM, and much more! Cover by DAN BRERETON!

More tutorials and interviews from DRAW! #8-10, spotlighting: From comics to video games with artist MATT HALEY! Character design with TOM BANCROFT and ROB CORLEY! Adobe Illustrator tips with ALBERTO RUIZ! Draping the human figure by BRET BLEVINS! Penciling with RON GARNEY! Breaking into comic strips by GRAHAM NOLAN! Lettering by TODD KLEIN! International cartoonist JOSÉ LUIS AGREDA! Interviews with PvP’s SCOTT KURTZ and Banana Tail’s MARK McKENNA, and more! Cover by MATT HALEY!

(256-page trade paperback with COLOR) $29.95 ISBN: 9781893905917 Diamond Order Code: JAN083936

(216-page trade paperback with COLOR) $24.95 ISBN: 9781605490007 Ships May 2008

Art professor DURWIN TALON gets top creators to discuss all aspects of the DESIGN of comics, from panel and page layout, to use of color and lettering: • WILL EISNER • SCOTT HAMPTON • MIKE WIERINGO • WALT SIMONSON • MIKE MIGNOLA • MARK SCHULTZ • DAVID MAZZUCCHELLI • MIKE CARLIN • DICK GIORDANO • BRIAN STELFREEZE • CHRIS MOELLER • MARK CHIARELLO If you’re serious about creating effective, innovative comics, or just enjoying them from the creator’s perspective, this guide is must-reading! (208-page trade paperback with COLOR) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905146 Diamond Order Code: MAY073781

MODERN MASTERS SERIES Edited by ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON, these trade paperbacks and DVDs are devoted to the BEST OF TODAY’S COMICS ARTISTS! Each book contains RARE AND UNSEEN ARTWORK direct from the artist’s files, plus a COMPREHENSIVE INTERVIEW (including influences and their views on graphic storytelling), DELUXE SKETCHBOOK SECTIONS, and more! And don’t miss our companion DVDs, showing the artists at work in their studios!

MODERN MASTERS: IN THE STUDIO WITH GEORGE PÉREZ DVD

MODERN MASTERS: IN THE STUDIO WITH MICHAEL GOLDEN DVD

Get a PERSONAL TOUR of George’s studio, and watch STEP-BY-STEP as the fan-favorite artist illustrates a special issue of TOP COW’s WITCHBLADE! Also, see George as he sketches for fans at conventions, and hear his peers and colleagues—including MARV WOLFMAN and RON MARZ—share their anecdotes and personal insights along the way!

Go behind the scenes and into Michael Golden’s studio for a LOOK INTO THE CREATIVE MIND of one of comics' greats. Witness a modern master in action as this 90-minute DVD provides an exclusive look at the ARTIST AT WORK, as he DISCUSSES THE PROCESSES he undertakes to create a new comics series.

(120-minute Standard Format DVD) $29.95 ISBN: 9781893905511 Diamond Order Code: JUN053276

(90-minute Standard Format DVD) $29.95 ISBN: 9781893905771 Diamond Order Code: MAY073780

Volume 1: ALAN DAVIS

Volume 2: GEORGE PÉREZ

Volume 3: BRUCE TIMM

Volume 4: KEVIN NOWLAN

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905191 Diamond Order Code: JAN073903

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905252 Diamond Order Code: JAN073904

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905306 Diamond Order Code: APR042954

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905382 Diamond Order Code: SEP042971

Volume 5: GARCÍA-LÓPEZ

Volume 6: ARTHUR ADAMS

Volume 7: JOHN BYRNE

Volume 8: WALTER SIMONSON

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905443 Diamond Order Code: APR053191

by George Khoury & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905542 Diamond Order Code: DEC053309

by Jon B. Cooke & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905566 Diamond Order Code: FEB063354

by Roger Ash & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905641 Diamond Order Code: MAY063444

Volume 9: MIKE WIERINGO

Volume 10: KEVIN MAGUIRE

Volume 11: CHARLES VESS

Volume 12: MICHAEL GOLDEN

by Todd DeZago & Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905658 Diamond Order Code: AUG063626

by George Khoury & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905665 Diamond Order Code: OCT063722

by Christopher Irving & Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905696 Diamond Order Code: DEC063948

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905740 Diamond Order Code: APR074023

NEW FOR 2008

Volume 13: JERRY ORDWAY

Volume 14: FRANK CHO

Volume 15: MARK SCHULTZ

Volume 16: MIKE ALLRED

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905795 Diamond Order Code: JUN073926

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905849 Diamond Order Code: AUG074034

by Fred Perry & Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905856 Diamond Order Code: OCT073846

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905863 Diamond Order Code: JAN083937

MODERN MASTERS BUNDLES

NEW FOR 2008

Volume 17: LEE WEEKS

Volume 18: JOHN ROMITA JR.

by Tom Field & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905948 Ships May 2008

by George Khoury & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905955 Ships July 2008

BUNDLE THE GEORGE PÉREZ VOLUME & DVD TOGETHER, OR THE MICHAEL GOLDEN VOLUME & DVD TOGETHER

ONLY $37.95 EACH (SAVE $7 PER BUNDLE)

MODERN MASTERS VOLUMES ON MIKE PLOOG AND CHRIS SPROUSE ARE COMING IN FALL 2008 SEE OUR SUMMER CATALOG UPDATE!

“HOW-TO” MAGAZINES Spinning off from the pages of BACK ISSUE! magazine comes ROUGH STUFF, celebrating the ART of creating comics! Edited by famed inker BOB McLEOD, each issue spotlights NEVER-BEFORE PUBLISHED penciled pages, preliminary sketches, detailed layouts, and even unused inked versions from artists throughout comics history. Included is commentary on the art, discussing what went right and wrong with it, and background information to put it all into historical perspective. Plus, before-and-after comparisons let you see firsthand how an image changes from initial concept to published version. So don’t miss this amazing magazine, featuring galleries of NEVER-BEFORE SEEN art, from some of your favorite series of all time, and the top pros in the industry!

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ROUGH STUFF #1 Our debut issue features galleries of UNSEEN ART by a who’s who of Modern Masters including: ALAN DAVIS, GEORGE PÉREZ, BRUCE TIMM, KEVIN NOWLAN, JOSÉ LUIS GARCÍA-LÓPEZ, ARTHUR ADAMS, JOHN BYRNE, and WALTER SIMONSON, plus a KEVIN NOWLAN interview, art critiques, and a new BRUCE TIMM COVER!

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ROUGH STUFF #2

ROUGH STUFF #3

ROUGH STUFF #4

The follow-up to our smash first issue features more galleries of UNSEEN ART by top industry professionals, including: BRIAN APTHORP, FRANK BRUNNER, PAUL GULACY, JERRY ORDWAY, ALEX TOTH, and MATT WAGNER, plus a PAUL GULACY interview, a look at art of the pros BEFORE they were pros, and a new GULACY “HEX” COVER!

Still more galleries of UNPUBLISHED ART by MIKE ALLRED, JOHN BUSCEMA, YANICK PAQUETTE, JOHN ROMITA JR., P. CRAIG RUSSELL, and LEE WEEKS, plus a JOHN ROMITA JR. interview, looks at the process of creating a cover (with BILL SIENKIEWICZ and JOHN ROMITA JR.), and a new ROMITA JR. COVER, plus a FREE DRAW #13 PREVIEW!

More NEVER-PUBLISHED galleries (with detailed artist commentaries) by MICHAEL KALUTA, ANDREW “Starman” ROBINSON, GENE COLAN, HOWARD CHAYKIN, and STEVE BISSETTE, plus interview and art by JOHN TOTLEBEN, a look at the Wonder Woman Day charity auction (with rare art), art critiques, before-&-after art comparisons, and a FREE WRITE NOW #15 PREVIEW!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: AUG063714

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV064024

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: FEB073911

(116-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: APR063497

ROUGH STUFF #5

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ROUGH STUFF #6

NEVER-BEFORE-PUBLISHED galleries (complete with extensive commentaries by the artists) by PAUL SMITH, GIL KANE, CULLY HAMNER, DALE KEOWN, and ASHLEY WOOD, plus a feature interview and art by STEVE RUDE, an examination of JOHN ALBANO and TONY DeZUNIGA’s work on Jonah Hex, new STEVE RUDE COVER, plus a FREE BACK ISSUE #23 PREVIEW!

Features a new interview and cover by BRIAN STELFREEZE, interview with BUTCH GUICE, extensive art galleries/commentary by IAN CHURCHILL, DAVE COCKRUM, and COLLEEN DORAN, MIKE GAGNON looks at independent comics, with art and comments by ANDREW BARR, BRANDON GRAHAM, and ASAF HANUKA! Includes a FREE ALTER EGO #73 PREVIEW!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY073902

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: AUG074137

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ROUGH STUFF #7

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Features an in-depth interview and cover by TIM TOWNSEND, CRAIG HAMILTON, DAN JURGENS, and HOWARD PORTER offer preliminary art and commentaries, MARIE SEVERIN career retrospective, graphic novels feature with art and comments by DAWN BROWN, TOMER HANUKA, BEN TEMPLESMITH, and LANCE TOOKS, and more! (100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV073966

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ROUGH STUFF #9

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ROUGH STUFF #8 Features an in-depth interview and cover painting by the extraordinary MIKE MAYHEW, preliminary and unpublished art by ALEX HORLEY, TONY DeZUNIGA, NICK CARDY, and RAFAEL KAYANAN (including commentary by each artist), a look at the great Belgian comic book artists, a “Rough Critique” of MIKE MURDOCK’s work, and more! (100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: FEB084188

Editor and pro inker BOB McLEOD features four interviews this issue: ROB HAYNES (interviewed by fellow professional TIM TOWNSEND), JOE JUSKO, MEL RUBI, and SCOTT WILLIAMS, with a new painted cover by JUSKO, and an article by McLEOD examining "Inkers: Who needs ’em?" along with other features, including a Rough Critique of RUDY VASQUEZ! (100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY084263

4-ISSUE SUBSCRIPTIONS: $26 US Postpaid by Media Mail ($36 First Class, $44 Canada, $60 Surface, $72 Airmail).

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TwoMorrows Publishing 2008 Catalog Update JUNE-DECEMBER 2008 • ORDER AT: www.twomorrows.com TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com

From KIMOTA: THE MIRACLEMAN COMPANION to G-FORCE: ANIMATED and TRUE BRIT, readers know GEORGE KHOURY is the author that delivers the most in-depth books on the comics and TV shows they love. Look what he’s up to now!

AGE OF TV HEROES

THE EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE: Indispensable Edition

Examines the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes! This handsome FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER features the in-depth stories of the actors and behind-the-scene players that made the classic super-hero television programs we all grew up with. From legendary shows like THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN and BATMAN, to the modern era of THE TICK and SMALLVILLE, it’s colorfully presented in vivid detail, lavishly designed with a bevy of color photographs. Included are new and exclusive interviews and commentary from ADAM WEST (Batman), LYNDA CARTER (Wonder Woman), PATRICK WARBURTON (The Tick), NICHOLAS HAMMOND (Spider-Man), WILLIAM KATT (The Greatest American Hero), JACK LARSON (The Adventures of Superman), JOHN WESLEY SHIPP (The Flash), JACKSON BOSTWICK (Shazam!), and many more, including comments from REB BROWN, STEPHEN J. CANNELL, CHIP KIDD, STAN LEE, NOEL NEILL, JOHN ROMITA, ALEX ROSS, ILYA SALKIND, LOU SCHEIMER, LORENZO SEMPLE, LYLE WAGGONER, and other actors, producers, and crew. Re-experience the pop culture birth of the super-hero phenomenon, and relive the first time that these heroes came to life on TV! Written by G-FORCE: ANIMATED collaborators JASON HOFIUS and GEORGE KHOURY, with a new cover by superstar painter ALEX ROSS!

The definitive autobiographical book on ALAN MOORE finally returns to print in a NEW EXPANDED AND UPDATED VERSION! In it, Moore reflects on his life and work in an insightful and candid fashion through an extensive series of interviews about his entire legendary career, including new interviews covering his work since the original edition of this book was published in 2003. From SWAMP THING, V FOR VENDETTA, and WATCHMEN to the future of THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN and beyond – all of his most important works and major themes are discussed. Within this tome, readers will find RARE STRIPS, SCRIPTS, ARTWORK, and PHOTOGRAPHS of the author, most never published elsewhere. Also, best-selling author NEIL GAIMAN headlines a series of tribute comic strips featuring many of Moore’s closest collaborators elaborating on their relationship with the great writer! Included as well is a COLOR SECTION, featuring the RARE MOORE STORY “The Riddle of the Recalcitrant Refuse” (newly remastered, and starring MR. MONSTER), plus his unseen work on JUDGE DREDD, and other tales by the creator of WATCHMEN (soon to be a blockbuster 2009 film). Edited by GEORGE KHOURY, with a cover by DAVE McKEAN!

(192-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490106 Diamond Order Code: JAN088703 • Ships November 2008

(240-page trade paperback) $29.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490090 Diamond Order Code: JAN088702 • Ships December 2008

NEW ITEMS: Vol. 19: MIKE PLOOG

MODERN MASTERS SERIES

(120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $14.95 US ISBN: 9781605490076 • Ships October 2008

Edited by ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON, these trade paperbacks are devoted to the BEST OF TODAY’S COMICS ARTISTS! Each book contains RARE AND UNSEEN ARTWORK direct from the artist’s files, plus a COMPREHENSIVE INTERVIEW (including influences and their views on graphic storytelling), DELUXE SKETCHBOOK SECTIONS, and more!

Vol. 20: KYLE BAKER (120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $14.95 US ISBN: 9781605490083 • Ships December 2008

MORE MODERN MASTERS ARE COMING IN 2009, INCLUDING CHRIS SPROUSE!

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KIRBY FIVE-OH! LIMITED HARDCOVER EDITION! Limited to 500 copies, KIRBY FIVE-OH! LIMITED HARDCOVER EDITION covers the best of everything from Jack Kirby’s 50-year career in comics! The regular columnists from THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine have formed a distinguished panel of experts to choose and examine: The BEST KIRBY STORY published each year from 19381987! The BEST COVERS from each decade! The 50 BEST EXAMPLES OF UNUSED KIRBY ART! His 50 BEST CHARACTER DESIGNS! And profiles of, and commentary by, 50 PEOPLE INFLUENCED BY KIRBY’S WORK! Plus there’s a 50-PAGE GALLERY of Kirby’s powerful RAW PENCIL ART, and a DELUXE COLOR SECTION of photos and finished art from throughout his entire half-century oeuvre, a previously unseen Kirby Superman cover inked by “DC: The New Frontier” artist DARWYN COOKE, and an introduction by MARK EVANIER! This LIMITED HARDCOVER EDITION includes a full-color wrapped hardcover, and an individually-numbered extra Kirby art plate not included in the softcover edition! It’s ONLY AVAILABLE FROM TWOMORROWS, and is not sold in stores! Edited by JOHN MORROW. (168-page Limited Edition Hardcover) $34.95 US • Now shipping! Only available from TwoMorrows!

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JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #52

COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUME 7

Spotlights KIRBY OBSCURA, uncovering some of Jack’s most obscure work! Learn about such littleknown projects as an UNUSED THOR STORY, his BRUCE LEE comic, animation work, stage play, and see original unaltered versions of pages from KAMANDI, DEMON, DESTROYER DUCK, and more, including a feature examining the last page of his final issue of various series BEFORE EDITORIAL TAMPERING (with lots of surprises)! Color Kirby front cover inked by DON HECK, and back cover inked by PAUL SMITH!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27-30, with looks at Jack’s 1970s and ‘80s work, plus a two-part focus on how widespread Kirby’s influence is! Features rare interviews with KIRBY himself, plus Watchmen’s ALAN MOORE and DAVE GIBBONS, NEIL GAIMAN, Bone’s JEFF SMITH, MARK HAMILL, and others! See page after page of rare Kirby art, including a NEW SPECIAL SECTION with over 30 PIECES OF KIRBY ART NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED, and more! (288-page trade paperback) $29.95 US ISBN: 9781605490120 Ships January 2009

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 US Ships January 2009 BRICKJOURNAL magazine is the ultimate resource for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages. It spotlights all aspects of the LEGO Community, showcasing events, people, and models in every issue, with contributions and how-to articles by top builders worldwide, new product intros, and more. Edited by JOE MENO.

BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUM 3 VOLUME 3 compiles the digital-only issues #6-7 of the acclaimed online magazine for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages — for the first time in printed form! This FULLCOLOR book spotlights all aspects of the LEGO COMMUNITY through interviews with builders KNUD THOMSEN (builder of a LEGO city), ANTHONY SAVA (castle and dragon builder), JØRGEN VIG KNUDSTORP (CEO to the LEGO Group) and the duo ARVO (builders of many incredible models), plus features on LEGO FAN CONVENTIONS, such as BRICKFEST, LEGO WORLD (the Netherlands), and 1000STEINE-LAND (Germany), reviews and behind the scenes reports on two LEGO sets (the CAFE CORNER and HOBBY TRAIN), how to create custom minifigures, instructions and techniques, and more! Edited by JOE MENO. (224-page trade paperback) $34.95 US ISBN: 9781605490069 Ships January 2009

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BRICKJOURNAL #4

FULL-COLOR issue #3 has LEGO Event Reports from BRICKWORLD (Chicago), FIRST LEGO LEAGUE WORLD FESTIVAL (Atlanta) and PIECE OF PEACE (Japan), a spotlight on the creation of our amazing cover model built by BRYCE McGLONE, plus interviews with ARTHUR GUGICK and STEVEN CANVIN of LEGO MINDSTORMS, to see where LEGO ROBOTICS is going! There’s also STEP-BY-STEP BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS, TECHNIQUES, & more!

FULL-COLOR issue #4 features interviews with top LEGO BUILDERS including BREANN SLEDGE (BIONICLE BUILDER), Event Reports from LEGO gatherings such as BRICKFAIR (Washington, DC) and BRICKCON (Seattle, Washington), plus reports on new MINDSTORMS PROJECTS, STEP-BY-STEP BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS and TECHNIQUES for all skill levels, NEW SET REVIEWS, and editor JOE MENO shows how to build a robotic LEGO Wall-E!TM

(80-page magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to subscribers) Diamond Order Code: JUN084415

(80-page magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to subscribers)

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ALTER EGO focuses on Golden and Silver Age comics and creators with articles, interviews and unseen art, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), Mr. Monster & more. Edited by ROY THOMAS.

DRAW! is the professional “How-To” magazine on cartooning and animation, featuring in-depth interviews and step-by-step demonstrations from top comics professionals. Edited by MIKE MANLEY.

ALTER EGO #81

ALTER EGO #82

ALTER EGO #83

ALTER EGO #84

New FRANK BRUNNER Man-Thing cover, a look at the late-’60s horror comic WEB OF HORROR with early work by BRUNNER, WRIGHTSON, WINDSOR-SMITH, SIMONSON, & CHAYKIN, interview with comics & fine artist EVERETT RAYMOND KINTSLER, ROY THOMAS’ 1971 origin synopsis for the FIRST MAN-THING STORY, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

MLJ ISSUE! Golden Age MLJ index illustrated with vintage images of The Shield, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Black Hood, by IRV NOVICK, JACK COLE, CHARLES BIRO, MORT MESKIN, GIL KANE, & others—behind a marvelous MLJ-heroes cover by BOB McLEOD! Plus interviews with IRV NOVICK and JOE EDWARDS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

SWORD & SORCERY PART 2! Cover by ARTHUR SUYDAM, in-depth art-filled look at Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, DC’s Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Dagar the Invincible, Ironjaw & Wulf, and Arak, Son of Thunder, plus the never-seen Valda the Iron Maiden by TODD McFARLANE! Plus JOE EDWARDS (Part 2), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

Unseen JIM APARO cover, STEVE SKEATES discusses his early comics work, art & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD, and the great WARREN SAVIN! Plus writer CHARLES SINCLAIR on his partnership with Batman co-creator BILL FINGER, FCA, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships October 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships December 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships January 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships March 2009

ROUGH STUFF features never-seen pencil pages, sketches, layouts, roughs, and unused inked pages from throughout comics history, plus columns, critiques, and more! Edited by BOB MCLEOD.

WRITE NOW! features writing tips from pros on both sides of the desk, interviews, sample scripts, reviews, exclusive Nuts & Bolts tutorials, and more! Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH. THE RETRO COMICS EXPERIENCE!

BACK ISSUE celebrates comic books of the 1970s, 1980s, and today through a variety of recurring (and rotating) departments, plus rare and unpublished art. Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

DRAW! #17

ROUGH STUFF #10

ROUGH STUFF #11

WRITE NOW! #20

Go behind the pages of the hit series of graphic novels starring Scott Pilgrim with his creator and artist, BRYAN LEE O’MALLEY, to see how he creates the acclaimed series! Then, learn how B.P.R.D.’s GUY DAVIS works on the series, plus more Comic Art Bootcamp: Learning from The Great Cartoonists by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, reviews, and more!

Interview with RON GARNEY, with copious examples of sketchwork and comments. Also features on ANDY SMITH, MICHAEL JASON PAZ, and MATT HALEY, showing how their work evolves, excerpts from a new book on ALEX RAYMOND, secrets of teaching comic art by pro inker BOB McLEOD, new cover by GARNEY and McLEOD, newcomer critique, and more!

New cover by GREG HORN, plus interviews with HORN and TOM YEATES on how they produce their stellar work. Also features on GENE HA, JIMMY CHEUNG, and MIKE PERKINS, showing their sketchwork, and commentary, tips on collecting sketches and commissions from artists, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work, and more!

Focus on THE SPIRIT movie, showing how FRANK MILLER transformed WILL EISNER’s comics into the smash-hit film, with interviews with key players behind the making of the movie, a look at what made Eisner’s comics so special, and more. Plus: an interview with COLLEEN DORAN, writer ALEX GRECIAN on how to get a pitch green lighted, script and art examples, and more!

(80-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 US • Ships Fall 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships October 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships January 2009

(80-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships Winter 2009

BACK ISSUE #29

BACK ISSUE #30

BACK ISSUE #31

BACK ISSUE #32

BACK ISSUE #33

“Mutants” issue! CLAREMONT, BYRNE, SMITH, and ROMITA, JR.’s X-Men work, NOCENTI and ARTHUR ADAMS’ Longshot, McLEOD and SIENKIEWICZ’s New Mutants, the UK’s CAPTAIN BRITAIN series, lost Angel stories, Beast’s tenure with the Avengers, the return of the original X-Men in X-Factor, the revelation of Nightcrawler’s “original” father, a history of DC’s mutant, Captain Comet, and more! Cover by DAVE COCKRUM!

“Saturday Morning Heroes!” Interviews with TV Captain Marvels JACKSON BOSTWICK and JOHN DAVEY, MAGGIN and SAVIUK’s lost Superman/”Captain Thunder” sequel, Space Ghost interviews with GARY OWENS and STEVE RUDE, MARV WOLFMAN guest editorial, Super Friends, unproduced fourth wave Super Powers action figures, Astro Boy, ADAM HUGHES tribute to DAVE STEVENS, and a new cover by ALEX ROSS!

“STEVE GERBER Salute!” In-depth look at his Howard the Duck, Man-Thing, Omega the Unknown, Defenders, Metal Men, Mister Miracle, Thundarr the Barbarian, and more! Plus: Creators pay tribute to Steve Gerber, featuring art by and commentary from BRUNNER, BUCKLER, COLAN, GOLDEN, STAN LEE, LEVITZ, MAYERIK, MOONEY, PLOOG, SIMONSON, and others. Cover painting by FRANK BRUNNER!

“Tech, Data, and Hardware!” The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, WEIN, WOLFMAN, and GREENBERGER on DC’s Who’s Who, SAVIUK, STATON, and VAN SCIVER on Drawing Green Lantern, ED HANNIGAN Art Gallery, history of Rom: Spaceknight, story of BILL MANTLO, Dial H for Hero, Richie Rich’s Inventions, and a Spider-Mobile schematic cover by ELIOT BROWN and DUSTY ABELL!

“Teen Heroes!” Teen Titans in the 1970s & 1980s, with CARDY, GARCÍA-LÓPEZ, PÉREZ, TUSKA, and WOLFMAN, BARON and GUICE on the Flash, interviews with TV Billy Batson MICHAEL GRAY and writer STEVE SKEATES, NICIEZA and BAGLEY’s New Warriors; Legion of Super-Heroes 1970s art gallery; James Bond, Jr.; and… the Archies! New Teen Titans cover by GEORGE PÉREZ and colored by GENE HA!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships July 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships September 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships November 2008

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships January 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships March 2009

NEW STUFF FROM TWOMORROWS!

BACK ISSUE #29

ALTER EGO #80

WRITE NOW! #18

DRAW! #16

BRICKJOURNAL #2

“Mutants” issue! CLAREMONT, BYRNE, SMITH, and ROMITA, JR.’s X-Men work; NOCENTI and ARTHUR ADAMS’ Longshot; McLEOD and SIENKIEWICZ’s New Mutants; the UK’s CAPTAIN BRITAIN series; lost Angel stories; Beast’s tenure with the Avengers; the return of the original X-Men in X-Factor; the revelation of Nightcrawler’s “original” father; a history of DC’s mutant, Captain Comet, and more! Cover by DAVE COCKRUM!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY COMICS! Learn about Crom the Barbarian, Viking Prince, Nightmaster, Kull, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser, Beowulf, Warlord, Dagar the Invincible, and more, with art by FRAZETTA, SMITH, BUSCEMA, KANE, WRIGHTSON, PLOOG, THORNE, BRUNNER, and more! New cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

Celebration of STAN LEE’s 85th birthday, including rare examples of comics, TV, and movie scripts from the Stan Lee Archives, tributes by JOHN ROMITA, SR., JOE QUESADA, ROY THOMAS, DENNIS O’NEIL, JIMMY PALMIOTTI, JIM SALICRUP, TODD McFARLANE, LOUISE SIMONSON, MARK EVANIER, and others, plus art by KIRBY, DITKO, ROMITA, and more!

Features an in-depth interview and coverage of the creative process of HOWARD CHAYKIN, plus behind the drawing board and animation desk with JAY STEPHENS, more COMIC ART BOOTCAMP, this time focusing on HOW TO USE REFERENCE, and WORKING FROM PHOTOS by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, plus reviews, resources and more!

The ultimate resource for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages spotlights blockbuster summer movies, LEGO style! Go behind the scenes for new sets for BATMAN and INDIANA JONES, and see new models, including an SR-71 SPYPLANE and a LEGO CITY, plus MINIFIGURE CUSTOMIZATIONS, BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS, tour the ONLINE LEGO FACTORY, and more! Edited by JOE MENO.

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY084246

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Ships August 2008 Diamond Order Code: JUN084380

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(80-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 Ships July 2008 Diamond Order Code: MAY084262

(80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 Now Shipping Diamond Order Code: MAR084135

KIRBY FIVE-OH! LIMITED HARDCOVER

TITANS COMPANION VOLUME 2

FLASH COMPANION

NICK CARDY: BEHIND THE ART

LIMITED TO 500 COPIES! Hardcover version of the book that covers the best of everything from Jack Kirby’s 50-year career! Includes a wrapped hardcover, and Kirby art plate not in the softcover edition. Edited by JOHN MORROW.

This new volume picks up where Volume 1 left off, covering the return of the Teen Titans to the top of the sales charts! Featuring interviews with GEOFF JOHNS, MIKE McKONE, PETER DAVID, PHIL JIMENEZ, and others, plus an in-depth section on the top-rated Cartoon Network series! Also CHUCK DIXON, MARK WAID, KARL KESEL, and JOHN BYRNE on writing the current generation of Titans! More on the New Teen Titans with MARV WOLFMAN and GEORGE PÉREZ! NEAL ADAMS on redesigning Robin! Amazing and unpublished artwork by ADAMS, BYRNE, JIMENEZ, McKONE, PÉREZ and more, with an all-new cover by MIKE McKONE! Written by GLEN CADIGAN.

Details the histories of the four heroes who have been declared DC Comics' "Fastest Man Alive". With articles about SHELLY MAYER, GARDNER FOX, E.E. HIBBARD, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, ROBERT KANIGHER, JOHN BROOME, ROSS ANDRU, IRV NOVICK and all-new interviews with HARRY LAMPERT, CARMINE INFANTINO, CARY BATES, ALEX SAVIUK, MIKE W. BARR, MARV WOLFMAN, MIKE BARON, JACKSON GUICE, MARK WAID, and SCOTT KOLINS, it recounts the scarlet speedster's evolution from the Golden Age to the 21st century. Also featured are "lost covers," a ROGUES GALLERY detailing The Flash's most famous foes, a tribute to late artist MIKE WIERINGO by MARK WAID, a look at the speedster’s 1990s TV show, and "Flash facts" detailing pivotal moments in Flash history. Written by KEITH DALLAS, with a a cover by DON KRAMER.

NICK CARDY has been doing fantastic artwork for more than sixty years, from comics, to newspaper strips, to illustration. His work on DC Comics’ TEEN TITANS, and his amazing comics covers, are universally hailed as some of the best in the medium’s history, but his COMMERCIAL ILLUSTRATION work is just as highly regarded by those in the know. Now, this lavish FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER lets you see what goes on behind his amazing art! Nick has selected dozens of his favorite pieces from throughout his career and shows how they came to be in this remarkable art book. From the reams of preliminary work as well as Nick's detailed commentary, you will gain fascinating insight into how this great artist works, watching each step of the way as some of his most memorable images come to life! By ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON and NICK CARDY.

(224-page trade paperback) $26.95 ISBN: 9781893905986 Now Shipping

(128-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $34.95 • Ships August 2008 ISBN: 9781893905993

(168-page tabloid-size hardcover) $34.95 • Now Shipping ONLY AVAILABLE FROM TWOMORROWS; NOT IN STORES!

KIRBY CHECKLIST: GOLD UPDATED EDITION of the most thorough listing of JACK KIRBY’s work ever published! (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 Now Shipping

Go to www.twomorrows.com for FULL-COLOR downloadable PDF versions of our magazines for only $2.95! Subscribers to the print edition get the digital edition FREE, weeks before it hits stores!

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MODERN MASTERS VOLUME 17: LEE WEEKS by Tom Field & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905948

VOLUME 18: JOHN ROMITA JR. by George Khoury & Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781893905955 Each features an extensive, career-spanning interview lavishly illustrated with rare art from the artist’s files, plus huge sketchbook section, including unseen and unused art!

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JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR (4 issues)

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ALTER EGO (12 issues) Six-issue subs are half-price!

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BRICKJOURNAL (4 issues)

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