Jack Kirby Collector #28 Preview by TwoMorrows Publishing

Mark Hamill John Kricfalusi Moebius Steve Rude Geof Darrow Gary Gianni Karl Kesel AndrĂŠas Mike Allred L OO K , S UE !

$ 5.95 IN THE US

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PRESENTS P A R T T W O OF ITS A LL -S T A R LO O K AT TH E KI RB Y I N F LU E N C E !

HMM... #2 8, APR IL 2000!

Issue #28 Contents An Inference of Influence ...................2 (Mike Gartland’s investigative series looks at Stan Lee’s influence on Jack) Jeremy Kirby Interview.......................6 Tracy Kirby Interview .......................10 (Jack & Roz’s grandkids speak out about their upcoming Kirby-related projects) Agatha Harkness, Pickman’s Model ...14 (was Jack influenced by Lovecraft?) Where Are They Now? .....................1 8 (old Kirby monsters never die...) Crest vs. the Cavity Creeps ................2 1 The Thin Black Line .........................2 2 (a look at the career of Vince Colletta) The King in the Peninsula ................3 1 (Kirby influenced the Italians) An Interview with Andréas ..............3 2 (the French artist discusses Kirby) Kirby Swipes.....................................37 John Kricfalusi on Kirby ...................3 8 (Ren & Stimpy’s creator speaks) Centerfold: Dingbats #1....................4 0 The Kirby Version.............................4 3 (Kirby’s TV and film influences) Mark Hamill Interviewed .................5 1 Moebius Interview ...........................5 4 My Kirby Story.................................5 7 Gary Gianni & Geof Darrow ............5 8 “When Cap Throws His Mighty Shield” ...6 0 (did he influence the Frisbee, too?) Karl Kesel Interview .........................6 2 One Man Art Class ...........................6 6 Mike Allred Interview ......................6 8 Kirby Homage Gallery......................7 0 (fans and pros give it their best shot) Classifieds.........................................7 8 Collector Comments.........................7 9

ISSUE #28, APR. 2000

THE ONLY ’ ZINE AUTHORIZED BY THE KIRBY ESTATE

Cover inks: Mike Allred Cover color: Laura Allred Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support. COPYRIGHTS: Agatha Harkness, Alicia, Avengers, Balder, Black Bolt, Blip, Captain America, Crystal, Diablo, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Enchanters, Falcon, Fandral, Fantastic Four, Fin Fang Foom, Galactus, Ghost Rider, Giant-Man, Goom, Groot, Hela, Him, Hogun, Hulk, Human Torch, Invisible Girl, Iron Man, IT, Loki, Machine Man, Magneto, Mary Jane Watson, Mogul, Mole Man, Mr. Fantastic, Odin, Peter Parker, Prester John, Puppet Master, Red Skull, She-Hulk, Sif, Silver Surfer, Taboo, Thing, Thor, Torr, Valkyrie, Volstagg, Wasp, X-Men, Xemnu TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • Beautiful Dreamer, Big Barda, Boy Commandos, Clark Kent, Darkseid, Demon, Desaad, Dingbats of Danger Street, Female Furies, Gasser, Guardian, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Lightray, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Newsboy Legion, OMAC, Orion, Sandman & Sandy, Superboy, Superman TM & © DC Comics. • Oblivia © Big Bang Comics. • Fighting Yank © AC Comics. • Janus/Gemini © Ruby-Spears Productions. • It! Girl and the Atomics © Mike Allred. • Hellboy © Mike Mignola. • Corpus Monstrum © Gary Gianni. • Rat-Man, Cosmicus © Leo Ortolani. • Conan © Robert E. Howard Estate. • Prince Valiant, Flash Gordon © King Features. • Ripping Friends © John Kricfalusi & Spumco, Inc. • Ren & Stimpy © Nickelodeon. • The Prisoner © ITV. • Star Trek and all associated characters © Paramount. • Star Wars, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, and all associated characters are TM & © Lucasfilm, Ltd. • Creature from the Black Lagoon TM & © Universal Studios. • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles TM & © Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird. • Cavity Creeps © Crest. • “Musings” art, Capt. Victory, Dark Domain, Egghead, Goozlebobber, Klavus, Satan’s Six, Silver Star © Jack Kirby Estate.

Jack’s cover pencils for Marvel Two-In-One #12, featuring Prester John, one of many Kirby characters later reused by others. The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 7, No. 28, Apr. 2000. Published bi-monthly by & © TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Jon B. Cooke, Assoc. Editor. Single issues: $5.95 ($7.00 Canada, $9.00 elsewhere). Six-issue subscriptions: $24.00 US, $32.00 Canada and Mexico, $44.00 outside North America. First printing. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. PRINTED IN CANADA.

A Failure To Communicate Interlude: An Inference of Influence, by Mike Gartland hile others write about Kirby’s influence in this issue, I’d like to Stan became the first to re-introduce a new generation to the works of discuss some of the contributions of the one professional who Simon & Kirby, Carl Burgos, and especially Bill Everett. influenced Kirby in a myriad of ways, and quite arguably brought The Hulk, Thor, and Spider-Man were the next triumvirate that him towards his greatest recognition: Stan Lee. Kirby came to co-develop when Stan asked Jack for ideas. As with the Well, think about it; although Stan may not have been an influence Thing, Stan most likely asked for a character like the Hulk. In earlier to Jack in the artistic or storytelling sense, his effect on Kirby’s work at pre-hero Marvel stories, every now and then a monster would make a Marvel, for good or bad, is present in virtually every issue of every title re-appearance, perhaps in response to fans or positive sales. Based on Jack worked on. The majority of the effects were obviously good, as reflected in the love we share for their combined work. Although many throughout fandom speculate that Jack was the concept or “ideas” man behind the “House of Ideas,” it must be noted, however true, that Stan was the one asking for those concepts and ideas, especially during those critical early years. Stan is therefore rightly recognized as the father of the Marvel Universe, being a seminal influence behind not only Jack, but all areas of production. Stan was a creative midwife, periodically provoking Jack to bear down and push. This is not to say that Stan didn’t have ideas of his own, but one of his strengths was knowing how to utilize the creative talents of others. Stan’s input into the creation of Marvel’s earliest and most famous characters should not be disputed. When Goodman wanted to start up a super-hero line again, he went to Lee and Lee went to Kirby—not anyone else at Marvel— to come up with a book. Many cite the similarities between the FF and Jack’s Challengers and use this hypothesis to say that most of the idea for the FF came from Jack, but Lee’s influence is obvious from the two most colorful characters, the Torch and the Thing. It’s a pretty safe bet to assume that Stan would want a monster-like character, in keeping with the then-popular line of monster-related books that they were putting out. The inclusion of the Torch was definitely Lee’s input; it was all Jack could do to keep Stan from bringing back other Golden Age heroes for that book, and convince him to go with new characters. Stan still showed his love of the old guard by reviving the Sub-Mariner, and giving the “new” Torch his own title as soon as he could. Bringing back old characters was not to Stan’s detriment; if not for him, we of the Baby Boomers would never have enjoyed the likes of the Torch, Namor, or ironically Cap. Jack, being progressively creative, almost certainly wouldn’t have gone into the past and saved these great characters. Thanks to Stan reviving him, Captain America is more popular and recognized today than he ever would’ve been had he remained buried among the WWII relics. Also thanks to his A good catch (and a little venting of frustration) by Stan on this FF #90 page. His notes to Sol Brodsky about the reprinting of Golden Age stories early on,

way Jack drew Alicia’s eyes: “Fix Alicia’s pupils. Sol—She’s blind! If only J.K. were consistent.”

Page 14 pencils from Thor #144. It appears Jack came up with the somewhat out-of-character subplot of Balder being secretly in love with Sif. Stan went along with it for that issue, but wisely never followed up on it.

this, Stan may have wanted to try a series with the same monster in the lead; but maybe it came too late. The Hulk was pretty obvious as far as a monster tie-in was concerned, and maybe this was one of the reasons that initially, he didn’t succeed. There were a lot of monster stories already ingested by Marvel readers and, compared to books like FF and Thor, the Hulk was just another monster, not super-hero, book. Thor was discussed previously; Jack’s love of mythology fed this title for years, with Stan’s humanistic take on gods giving it the vitality to keep going. Ironically it is Spider-Man, Jack’s failed concept, that becomes Stan’s magnum opus and Marvel’s greatest success. Spider-Man, more than any other character, is a testament to the control that Stan had in the develop3

ment of Marvel’s heroes. Stan may not have developed these characters artistically, but he knew what he wanted, and none of them would exist as they do today if not for his influence and input. And no, I didn’t forget Ant-Man, but he also was discussed in a previous issue; I also didn’t forget that one should never mention the development of Spider-Man without acknowledging the immense input and talent of Steve Ditko. (As an interesting footnote, the rejected Spider-Man origin, where a kid finds an object that gives him his powers, may have been re-vamped and used in the origin for Thor, showing how close in time these two characters were being developed by Jack & Stan.) You would not have seen FF #12 or Spider-Man #1 as they exist today if not for Stan. Well, so what, you ask? The same could be said for any Marvel issue at that time. What I’m trying to point out here is not only Stan’s influence on the finished product, but the initialization of cross-marketing the characters between titles. This laid down the basis for a definitive point of reference between the characters’ individual plots in their own titles, interwoven occasionally with the other books, backed up with references in current books to previously published “back issue” stories; thus establishing a “timeline” that all of the super-hero books followed. All of this is known today as “continuity.” Stan established it, it tied the Marvel Universe together, it was wonderful, and boy, does the current Marvel ever need it today. Stan was able to maintain all of this continuity because he not only plotted and wrote some of the various stories, but was editor as well. Unlike DC’s method of several editors to oversee their titles, Stan was the sole editor for anything produced at Marvel. He was able to stay on top of the expanse of titles due to his acceptance of the “Marvel method” of writing, whereby the artist became a collaborator in the development of the story. This method of writing was established when Kirby returned to

Jack jotted this down on the back of one of his statted pages from FF #46. Was it a note taken during a phone plotting session with Stan, or Jack’s own idea for a subplot?

Jeremy Kirby Interview Conducted by John Morrow

TJKC: Did he let you watch him draw? JEREMY: Oh yeah, all the time—and he’d let me use some of the big animation boards to draw my horrible, horrible take-offs of Star Wars. (laughter) TJKC: So it didn’t bother him having you run all around the room? JEREMY: Not at all. I think sometimes it was a welcome break. Other times he just didn’t let it bother him.

(Roz and Jack Kirby’s grandson Jeremy was born in 1978 in Thousand Oaks, CA. The youngest child of Jack’s son Neal, Jeremy is now 21 years old, and ready to further the family name with a number of projects in the works. The latest one is a new Captain Victory mini-series, due out in July of this year. Our thanks to Jeremy for taking time out for this interview, which was conducted by phone on February 6, 2000.)

TJKC: As a kid, what kind of stuff did you do for fun with your grandparents? THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: JEREMY: There was a What’s your earliest memory big lake called Westlake, of your grandfather? and they’d take me JEREMY KIRBY: Going over to down to the duck pond. the house, and seeing him on We’d feed the ducks, the drawing board. I Grandpa Jack babysitting a very young Jeremy and Tracy. and that was their big would’ve been about two (below) The infamous Goozlebobber! thing. I think it was years old. He used to pretty easy to do, and it’d keep me busy for hours. We’d baby-sit me when I was really young. We lived very close to them; about five miles away. also do a lot of swimming in the pool; my grandma more TJKC: Your dad, Neal, published a lot of your grandfather’s work in the early 1970s, than my grandpa, but he’d go in every once in a while. under the Communicators Unlimited imprint. Do you know anything about that? TJKC: Didn’t they have a dog at one point? JEREMY: I remember a lot of that stuff around the house; maybe the Kirby Unleashed JEREMY: Back in the early 1980s they had Scruffy. He book. I also think that for a while, he was representing my grandfather’s properties. was this ugly little thing, (laughter) but he was the nicest TJKC: Did your dad talk dog. The name pretty much summed him up. (laughter) that much about comics? I think they found him somewhere, or Lisa might’ve Did he tell any membrought him home; I can’t remember. orable stories about TJKC: While you were a kid, did fans stop by the house? your grandpa? JEREMY: Oh yeah. It was funny for me; he was just my JEREMY: He’d grandpa, and all these peowould always ple wanted to see somebring up the subone I got to see on a ject of Jack. He was regular basis. They’d probably the most stop by, and aware of the Kirby toward my children about what my later years, grandpa did. A lot of his stories were of his very bad I was surdriving; (laughter) he’d try to drive, but would always prised at be thinking about something else. I believe once he how they let all rear-ended a police squad car. (laughter) these strangers There were some nice stories. Once, it was my grandin the house. father’s brother’s son’s bar mitzvah or something. Everyone else was inside partying, eating, and drinking. This was on the Lower East Side of New York. A homeless man walked by, and my grandfather invited him in, and had him party with everyone else—eat, drink, and be merry. TJKC: Did you spend a lot of time with Jack and Roz? JEREMY: Oh yeah, definitely. I used to go up to the Ruby-Spears building a lot with my grandma and grandpa when I was visiting. They had a cool video game in the lobby that’d I’d always play while my grandpa was in there. My grandma would usually stay with me in the waiting area there while he would go in. He was never in there more than an hour—or it seemed like it, anyway. TJKC: When you’d go over to the house, was Jack usually drawing all the time? JEREMY: Yeah, a lot. All through the afternoon, and after I’d go to sleep. I’d wake up in the middle of the night and look across to his studio from the other side of the house. You could see him with his back facing the window, just drawing at the board. TJKC: Was he working on animation stuff at that time? JEREMY: Yeah, that and I think some of the Pacific Comics stuff. 6

TJKC: As a kid, did you read comics at all? JEREMY: My favorite comics when I was young—and about the only ones I really read—were Sergio Aragonés’ Groo books, and some of the Captain Americas, reprints of the Airboy stuff, as well as Captain Victory.

JEREMY: Yeah. Because he was always up so late, my grandfather used to sleep until about eleven o’clock. My grandma would have me wake him up at eleven. When I was younger and he was sleeping, I’d run as fast as I could into the bedroom and just jump! (laughter) He’d be all startled, but for the next half hour he’d sit me down and start telling me stories of the Goozlebobbers. They were taking over the world, and we’d hide under the covers: “There goes one now, running past the window!”

TJKC: But you weren’t a fanatical comics readers? JEREMY: No, no. I liked the ideas of everything and the imagination that went into them, but I wasn’t that into reading most of them. I had a few I liked, and that was about it.

TJKC: So, first thing in the morning, he was firing away with stories? JEREMY: Yeah, first thing—he dreamed about them or something—and sometimes that would go on for an hour. He had a better imagination than I did, and I was five years old. (laughter) That was almost an inside thing in a way. It was something to do to keep me busy. It almost seemed as if he liked playing “make believe” more than I did.

TJKC: In Captain Victory #4-6, there was that very odd Goozlebobber in the backup stories. There’s a kid named Jeremy in there, and the prevailing wisdom is that Jack based the character on you. Is that true?

TJKC: How did the Goozlebobber actually show up on the comics page? JEREMY: I’m not sure. Maybe he thought, “Wow, Jeremy seems to like it. Let’s see if it’ll work here.” TJKC: Did he tell you he was doing it? JEREMY: My grandma told me later. I didn’t really read the issues until later on. That’s when my grandma said he had drawn me into it. I didn’t know that until years later, when I was maybe ten. TJKC: There was another kid in that story. Was he based on anyone? JEREMY: It could’ve been, but I’m not sure. He probably just made it up. TJKC: Did he ever do any drawings to help you with school projects? JEREMY: Not really, only because I wasn’t as good at school as my sister. He drew some pictures for her book reports. When I was younger, he’d come into my preschool class, and draw pictures for the entire class. Right in the middle of class, the teachers would let him come in, and he’d start drawing. It was on the big animation boards. I don’t know if anyone still has them, or if he gave them to the school, but that’s what he’d do to entertain the whole class. TJKC: Did you ask him to do that? JEREMY: I think it was more my grandma’s idea. It was the religious preschool, so everyone knew who he was. I think they just asked him to come down. He’d have me go up there sometimes and draw in front of everyone, but my artistic abilities aren’t quite what his were. (laughter) TJKC: As you were growing up, did your friends know who your grandfather was? JEREMY: A lot of them did. It meant more to them that he was this big comic book creator than it did to me; to me he was just Grandpa. When I moved up north to central California, I had a friend who was a big comic book fan, and it took him years to get over that my grandpa was Jack Kirby.

Pencils from Captain Victory #3, page 20.

Tracy Kirby Interview Conducted by John Morrow (Tracy Kirby, daughter of Jack and Roz’s son Neal, was born May 12, 1972. Like her brother Jeremy, she is actively working to keep the Kirby name alive, making the most of her close proximity to Hollywood by developing some of her grandfather’s properties for film and animation. She recently achieved success when Dark Horse Entertainment optioned the rights to her grandfather’s Satan’s Six series, with Tracy maintaining a producing role on any features that come from it. Our thanks to Tracy for participating in this interview, which was conducted by phone on February 23, 2000.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: As a child, did you remember your dad Neal talking a lot about your grandfather? TRACY KIRBY: Yes and no. I grew up being with my grandparents all the time. I was born and raised in Thousand Oaks, and that’s where they lived. Basically, since I was born—except maybe for the one year my parents moved to New York, and then moved right back to California— I was always with my grandparents. He wouldn’t really talk about him per se as if we were far away, and tell stories about him. If I heard stories about my grandfather, it was from his own mouth—all firsthand, and from my grandmother, too. TJKC: Do any particular memories really stand out? What’s the earliest thing you remember about your grandparents? TRACY: Gosh, a little bit of everything. Most of my birthday parties since I was three or four years old were at my grandparents’ house. They had the pool, the great backyard; it was the ultimate party backyard! (laughter) I remember as a little kid, my grandparents were so involved in all the little events in my life, particularly birthdays. I remember one time for Halloween at my parent’s house in Thousand Oaks, my grandparents came over. I think it was the year I was dressed like Tinkerbell, and my brother was a pirate. (laughter) My grandfather tried to scare us when we were coming back with all our candy. It didn’t work on me, but it worked on Jeremy; he threw his candy up everywhere! (laughter) [Grandpa] felt guilty afterwards, but I was laughing. TJKC: Jeremy didn’t tell us about this story in his interview. (laughter) TRACY: C’mon! (laughter) He was very little. I don’t think he’d remember that— but from birthdays, to any time I was involved in something at school, they were always there. School plays, softball, Girl Scouts; they were involved in everything. TJKC: Did they ever get too involved, to the point where you were embarrassed in front of your friends? TRACY: Not really. They were pretty much “it” for me, and I loved being with them all the time. I really can’t look back and remember a time when I thought, “Oh no, there they are again.” I loved them being a part of my life, that’s for sure. TJKC: Jeremy mentioned that Jack and Roz were the de facto baby-sitters, being so close to where you lived. Did you go to their house, or did they come to yours? TRACY: We would usually go to their house. I loved his studio, because there were a lot of cool things to play with and look at. Usually he would let Jeremy and me draw at one of the tables; unfortunately, we didn’t get the same drawing ability, (laughter) but he wouldn’t say anything. Usually most of our time, if we weren’t watching TV or a movie, we would be inside his studio, drawing along with him. He would give (top) Tracy as she looks today, and with her Grandfather years ago. (next page) Pencils from Satan’s Six #1 with Jack’s original dialogue.

us pointers on stuff. (Unfortunately it didn’t rub off, cause I still can’t even draw stick figures well.) He had tons of books in his studio; everything from Little Nemo to Popeye to some really cool Japanese comic books that I used to read as a kid. I spent a lot of time in that studio. TJKC: So you actually got exposed to lots of comics stuff as a kid. Little Nemo is a pretty refined taste for someone who isn’t a comics fanatic. TRACY: Oh yeah. I had my favorites; I read a few and loved looking at the pictures. I vividly remember Little Nemo. He had a box of these old watercolor paints, and that’s one of the momentos from the studio I have. There were all these little bottles in this really old case. TJKC: Are they Dr. Martin’s dyes? TRACY: Yeah! I used to play with those so much, and he used to let me use all of his paints. I thought it was the coolest thing. That’s one of my momentos I’ll always keep.

TJKC: You should hang onto those. There are plenty of comics artists who’d love to get their hands on Jack Kirby’s set of Dr. Martin’s dyes. (laughter) You let us run the book report art he did for you [TJKC #23]; did he do a lot of drawings for you when you were little? TRACY: Not really. That UFO report was probably the only thing he ever did for one of my school projects, but that was probably my own doing. I always liked to do everything on my own. I always liked cutting things out of magazines, and stuff like that when I was a kid. So I didn’t ask him for a lot of artwork on papers—but drawing-wise, I’ve found a couple of little pictures. He drew a cat, he drew a picture of a horse for me, and stuff like that which I’ve kept in a momento box. I guess I never really

asked for his drawing expertise. I never really thought of him as an artist, just good ol’ Grandpa—but the book report was a given: Jack Kirby, UFOs—“Grandpa, draw me an alien!” (laughter) There was no doubt on that one. As a kid I always wanted to be a marine biologist, so I did reports on dolphins and whales, and the ocean itself. I just used National Geographic pictures for those. TJKC: I know Jeremy appeared in one of your grandfather’s Captain Victory comics. Did he base any characters on you? TRACY: In Silver Star, the little girl playing the guitar. The song she was singing might’ve been something from Susan, because she wrote a lot of songs. TJKC: The first time I was up at Roz’s house, she showed me a photo of you dressed as Little Orphan Annie in a play, and proceeded to dote on how smart and beautiful and talented you were. Is it safe to assume she did that with everyone who came to the house? TRACY: Yes. (laughter) Both of them were so proud of me when I played Annie. Another great memory is seeing Grandpa watch me sign autographs to little kids after the play—another Kirby in the spotlight. (laughter) TJKC: I think Roz mentioned you were going to be a marine biologist. Is that what you went to school for? TRACY: No, I never actually emphasized in marine biology. As a kid, that was an interest of mine, and when I first went to college I took two microbiology classes, and I thought, “Whoa! I don’t want to do this!” (laughter) TJKC: She said you were going on dives at the time. TRACY: Oh yeah. I’ve always been diving; I’ve been scuba-diving for almost ten years now. I finished my G.E.s in college in Florida, and one of my friends was a scuba-diver, so I learned how to dive and have been diving ever since. I’ve gotten to be more professional at it, where I’ve learned how to teach scubadiving, so I can do that for my own personal interest. California has great diving, so I’m happy. TJKC: So Lisa’s a surfer, and you’re a scuba-diver. TRACY: She’s above the water, and I’m below—and we both have no desire to do the other. (laughter) Underwater’s very different; maybe it’s a claustrophobia situation. It’s very scary; it took me about two years to really enjoy it. Your imagination does go a little crazy down there, especially when you’re on shipwrecks, and you’re thinking, “When’s that big sea monster going to pop out?” (laughter) TJKC: What’s the most exciting dive you’ve been on? TRACY: I have quite a few good ones. I 11

Agatha Harkness, Pickman’s Model Kirby and Lovecraft, by Robert J. Karol “The thing is gone forever,” Armitage said. “It has been split up into what it was originally made of and can never exist again. It was an impossibility in a normal world... [from] some vague abyss out of which only the most accursed rites of human blasphemy could ever have called him for a moment on the hills.”1 Later on, Armitage says: “It was—well, it was mostly a kind of force that doesn’t belong in our part of space, a kind of force that acts and grows and shapes itself by other laws than those of our sort of Nature. We have no business calling in such things from outside.”1 In Journey Into Mystery #68’s last panel, our hero calls to mind some of Armitage’s speech: “But for all his superior intelligence, Spragg was a fool! He should have known that the surface of the Earth belongs to the human race! Destiny will never allow any aliens to take it over! Fate has made Earth ours, and no alien, whether from above or below, can ever thwart the divine master plan of destiny.” 2 Both passages speak of the inhumanity and alienness of the intruder. Spragg is called an alien right out, while the “Horror” is hinted at as not being from our dimension. Both state that such creatures do not belong on the face of the Earth. Of course, Lee’s ending is much more preachy and religious (Lovecraft was an atheist) than Lovecraft’s more foreboding ending. Also, Lovecraft’s story benefits from the fact that he did not attempt to rewrite it two or three times every month, as Lee had to do. What Lovecraft’s reaction would have been to the fact that the work of a man dedicated to tearing apart clichés was being used to perpetuate one we can only guess. Either way, there seems to be a heavy Lovecraftian influence in pre-Marvel Atlas. While Lee seemed to draw on Lovecraftian and Dunsanyian mythology in “Dr. Strange,” with the Ancient One’s temple in the Himalayas echoing the freezing plains around Leng, he had a more cosmic and scientific view in Fantastic Four, which did not focus on unexplained, supernatural events, but exploration of new worlds and universes. The more fantasy-centered stories appeared in Journey Into Mystery, which after two or three years became Thor. While Doom’s travels in his origin story seem to echo at points “The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath” and the story fragment “The Descendant,” FF was usually a comic whose stories depended on science-fiction, not fantasy (though one might argue that the later issues were space opera). However, the more rational, scientific approach of Reed Richards was abandoned in one issue for what seems to be a Lovecraft-centered romp. Fantastic Four #94 (“The Return of the Frightful Four”; written & illustrated by Stan Lee & Jack Kirby, Joe Sinnott inks) begins with Susan Richards and her new baby, Franklin, as the center of attention of the group. In short order, Reed and Sue state their intentions of having one Agatha Harkness raise Franklin, as super-heroes are not the most dependable people for child care. A very gaunt Wizard, leader of the Frightful Four, listens in and decides to use the trip to the Harkness house as a way to eliminate a few good guys (namely the four to whom this book belongs). “Meanwhile, in a lonely house, atop a lonely hill,” the

(this and following pages) Scenes from Fantastic Four #94.

t should be supposed that any connections between Jack Kirby and Howard Phillip Lovecraft are tenuous at best. Lovecraft died in 1937, the year before Kirby’s first professionally published work (Jumbo Comics #1 in 1938), and no one can be sure that Kirby ever read Weird Tales, though he probably read Astounding as a science-fiction fan, which published “At the Mountains of Madness.” If one wishes to play “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon,” it can be noted that DC editor Julius Schwartz acted as a literary agent for Lovecraft to sell “At the Mountains of Madness.” Nonetheless, there is no written record that Kirby was a fan of Lovecraft. However, it’s amazing how many similarities there are between some Kirby stories and Lovecraft stories. Submitted for your approval, “The Dunwich Horror.” The story is about a wizard by the name of Wilbur Whately who summons an extradimensional creature to Earth, and the wise and cunning scientists that defeat it. While “The Dunwich Horror” is dripping with Lovecraftian atmosphere, gore, and slimy creatures fit for Coleridge’s strongest opium dreams—which make it more horrific than the Atlas mystery tales of the Fifties— the formula of “strange creature coming to Earth, being defeated by small group or individual with a clever method to eliminate” was repeated again and again by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. In addition, “Dunwich Horror” and Lee’s mystery tales end with an almost-sermon on man and Earth. Compare Armitage’s words from “Dunwich Horror” to those of the scientist of Journey Into Mystery #68.

The Thin Black Line A rough and scratchy defense of Vince Colletta by Robert L. Bryant Jr. e swooped in to save comics publishers on deadline hundreds of times. He trashed the work of artists he should have worshiped. He was loved. He was hated. If he had been a character in a Marvel comic, the cover would have screamed, “The MYSTERY of VINCE COLLETTA! HERO or VILLAIN? YOU DECIDE!” This is the paradox of the late Vince Colletta. He was Jack Kirby’s frequent collaborator during the ten most amazingly fruitful years of Kirby’s career, the early 1960s to the early 1970s. Fantastic Four, Thor, New Gods, Mister Miracle, Forever People— all passed

under Colletta’s fine-tipped pen, which he preferred to the traditional inkers’ brush. Yet many, perhaps most, Kirby fans revile Colletta’s work, and comics histories either ignore him (Duin and Richardson’s Comics Between the Panels) or dismiss him (“Ignored most of the line work of the pencilers he worked over,” says Jones and Jacobs’ The Comic Book Heroes). “He’s become a favorite whipping boy.... The fan attitude toward Vince Colletta has totally crossed the line,” says comics writer and editor Tony Isabella, who became friends with Colletta in the 1970s. “Half the time, they’re not discussing the work, they’re discussing the man personally—and they don’t have the information to do that. They didn’t walk in his shoes.” Colletta was a product of the comics system, the New York assembly line that printed both gems and junk with once-amonth efficiency, says Mark Evanier, who was a Kirby assistant in the 1970s and who helped kick Colletta off Kirby’s Fourth World books. Colletta made everything look “average,” Evanier says, whether he was inking Grade A art or Grade D art. “He delivered a consistent product to editors, and they kept hiring him.” Over and over, for three decades: Jerry Bails’ Who’s Who of American Comic Books lists at least 50 titles that Colletta worked on for Charlton, at least 90 for the DC line, and nearly 100 for Marvel/Timely/Atlas. Colletta was a classic “utility player,” Isabella says— always pinch-hitting, jumping into books that were about to miss dead-

(right) Splash page from the “Tales of Asgard” story in Journey Into Mystery #125, showing Colletta’s ability to capture an antiquated feel.

line. “You weren’t going to get the best inking in the world from Vince,” Isabella says. “He did take shortcuts. I can’t defend individual bad jobs.... He never had the financial opportunity to do great art. Nobody ever said to Vince, ‘We want this really good.’ They said, ‘We want this Tuesday.’ ” “Vince was very valuable to editors,” Isabella says. “When these jobs were coming in late... Vince would turn them around quickly. Vince pulled a lot of butts out of the fire.” (Isabella wasn’t referring to Kirby, who never met a deadline he couldn’t beat, but to other books late for other reasons—usually, Isabella says, because of their writers.) Isabella was about 21 and working as a Marvel editorial assistant when he met Colletta in 1972. Colletta, already whitehaired, was about a generation older than Isabella— one of Kirby’s contemporaries, give or take a few years. “He was like this Italian uncle,” Isabella says. “He was always real decent to me.” Evanier remembers Colletta as a slim and handsome man of Italian descent (Sicilian, according to Bails), with a background in romance comics and a long list of friends in the industry, always meeting and greeting, “like a charming insurance salesman,” always juggling non-comics jobs, including photography for men’s magazines; and he was a fast inker—very fast— fast enough, in the early ’70s, to ink the 15 pages a week that Kirby was penciling for DC, plus inking a load of other books such as DC’s Lois Lane, Evanier says. The Colletta secret: He used assistants, and traded quality for volume; and, he must have thought, why the hell not? Colletta wasn’t being paid well by comics publishers, Evanier notes— really, no one was.

Page 2 pencils from Thor #144. Throughout this article, we’re showing Kirby’s pencils from that issue alongside Colletta’s inks, so readers can see what he’d change when inking a typical issue. Note the missing background items in the panel 2 inks shown on the previous page.

The King In The Peninsula t’s 1971. On Italian newsstands, a new comic book makes its appearance: Fantastici Quattro, published by Editoriale Corno, which is already publishing L’Uomo Ragno (Italian for Spider-Man) and Devil (Daredevil). The Marvel Universe is slowly conquering Italian readers, with the bi-weekly Corno 48-pagers (presenting two stories in each issue in order to catch up to American production). Fantastici Quattro publishes Lee and Kirby’s Fantastic Four in strict chronological order, and soon Kirby’s impressive style captures the imagination of readers. (above) Ortolani’s Rat-Man as the Silver Surfer. There was nothing like (left) The amazing Cosmicus, homage to Galactus. Marvel Comics in Italy— (below) Jack’s Yellow Kid award from Lucca, Italy. sense of wonder, pathos, and drama were cleverly mixed in a unique kind of cocktail, and the barmen were Kirby and Lee. Many Italian artists had been influenced by comic strip artists like Alex Raymond and Milton Caniff: Kirby was American, but was a totally different kind of American artist. If Alex Raymond was Ernest Hemingway and Milton Caniff was William Faulkner, Jack Kirby was J.D. Salinger, and Fantastic Four his Catcher in the Rye. There’s a generation of Italian writers and artists who grew up in the Seventies reading Corno comic books and were deeply influenced by the King (Corno also published Kirby’s Kamandi series). One of them is Leo Ortolani. Born in 1967, Ortolani was an avid Corno comics reader and he perfectly assimilated the classic Marvel style (now almost nonexistent in the comic books of the former “House of Ideas”). Italian critic Andrea Plazzi called him the “greatest living Marvel author.” This may sound like an overstatement, but Leo is a clever disciple of the King. He adopts a caricatural style, but rich with Kirbyesque reminiscences. He mixes classic Kirby grandeur with campy flavors (Leo’s humor closely evokes The Simpsons’ or Mad magazine’s). Before he was a professional, for the Italian fanzine Made in U.S.A. he drew a four-part “last Fantastic Four saga,” taking place right after FF #102, the last Kirby issue (even though he still reads Fantastic Four, Leo thinks the “real” FF finished when Kirby left). When the King died in 1994, Leo commemorated him with a beautiful pin-up: There was Kirby, with all his characters, and Leo’s creation, Rat-Man, crying over his death. Rat-Man, even if the name sounds like Batman, is a sort of classic Marvel hero parody: Rat-Man has all the problems of a Marvel super-hero, but no super-powers. Rat-Man started as a self-published series, then Marvel Italia (the company who publishes Marvel series—and most Image characters, too—in Italy) noticed it. Now Rat-Man is a creator-owned series published by Marvel Italia, so it was possible to have team-ups between Marvel characters and Rat-Man. The best is the meeting between Rat-Man and Doctor Doom, which perfectly fits into Marvel continuity. Rat-Man meets Doom in an ancient monastery in the Himalayas: Doom is a perfect disciple, but he turns evil because of Rat-Man (who thinks Doom’s beloved mother is a former hardcore porn star!). Rat-Man #6 is a moving homage to the classic Galactus Saga: the unbelievable Cosmicus wants to destroy Earth, and Rat-Man has to become a herald to save mankind. Leo isn’t the only major Italian comic book professional influenced by the King. Antonio Serra is a writer: He co-created (with Michele Medda and Bepi Vigna) the sci-fi character Nathan Never, published by Bonelli, one of the largest comic book publishing houses in Italy (they sell more than 2.5 million copies a month). Recently, some Bonelli characters (Dylan Dog, Martin Mystery, and Nathan Never himself ) were published in America by Dark Horse. Serra has always been a strong Kirby admirer and it isn’t a mere coincidence that Nathan Never’s arch-nemesis, businessman Aristotle Skotos, looks like evil Darkseid. A colleague of Nathan (they both work for the Alpha Detective Agency), a good guy named Jack O’Ryan, looks like Orion and is Skotos’ step-son. We couldn’t finish our brief article about Kirby disciples in Italy without mentioning the Esposito Brothers (Stefano and Denisio Esposito). Their style tries to capture Kirby’s energy and grandeur. They drew some Nathan Never stories and now are on the Martin Mystery (another Bonelli character) staff. Their Atlantis, Wizard Merlin, and Morgan LeFay look like Kirby mixed Photo by Shel with Michelangelo. Truly the King left heirs on both sides of the ocean.★ Dorf.

ani. © Leo Ortol

A look at Kirby’s influence in Italy, by Stefano Priarone

Photo © Lombard

summation of all his qualities, but as a symbiosis. The narration in his books depends on both the intricate events of the script and the abstract symbols in his art, resulting in a unique reading. Andréas is therefore a true author, maybe one of the few totally honest in the comics’ field nowadays, who is only doing what he wants, with complete freedom over his work. In America, Dark Horse has published Andréas’ Rork series (5 graphic novels to this date) and his Coutoo one-shot. This interview was conducted by phone in French on July 5th, 1999. Andréas submitted the final copyedit. We wish to thank Lise Louvet (Edition Lombard), Franck Bouysse for the recording and, of course, Andréas for having given us so much time and kindness.)

An Interview With Andréas By Jean Depelley and Etienne Barillier (Andréas is a unique comic book artist in Europe. Born in 1951 in East Germany, he first studied Art in Dusseldorf and at the Belgian Saint-Luc Institute. After a collaboration with Eddy Paape (co-author of the excellent Luc Orient and Marc Dacier series, as well as artist on several Jean Valhardi books) on the horrific one-shot Udolpho (1980), his first solo book as an artist, Révélations Posthumes, came out the same year with a script by François Rivière. His artistic talents have caught the readers’ interest since the publication of the Rork series (seven books between 1983 and 1993) in the Tintin weekly, to finally explode within the pages of the two Cromwell Stone graphic novels (1984 and 1994). His dynamic storytelling is always on the move, in a constant search of weird shots and abstraction. With Cyrrus (1984), Mil (1987), and Triangle Rouge (1995), he has proved a subtle writer, giving his readers food for thought. Andréas is currently working on two series: Capricorne (Edition Lombard, four books) and Arq (Edition Delcourt, three books). Still, Andréas’ talent cannot be perceived only as the

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: In the forth volume of the Capricorne series (Le Cube Numerique), the amnesiac Capricorne is wondering what his real name is. Is he Jacob Kurtzberg or Jack Curtiss? Why this reference to Jack Kirby? ANDRÉAS: This is because I like Jack Kirby! That is to say, I think that Will Eisner and Jack Kirby are the American comic books’ founders, in the two possible directions that I see. I have always liked Will Eisner’s Spirit too. Every name on this first page is Jack Kirby’s or Will Eisner’s pseudonym or real name. I have always been attracted to Kirby’s art. I have read a lot of things—nearly everything published by DC, when he was beginning his New Gods series—but I couldn’t keep those books because something annoyed me in a way. When TJKC came out and began publishing pencils, I was really astounded. I realized the inking bothered me then. Those pencils are absolutely extraordinary! I really think that 40% of Kirby’s work is lost with the inks.

(above) An interpretation of reality from Rork #7. (top) Low Valley’s moving epitaph from Rork #7. Both © Lombard.

TJKC: However, Mike Royer is a very good and very faithful inker ANDRÉAS: Yes, but the art is decreased even if Kirby is inking over his pencils. Most of the strength is in the pencils, because the blacks are there and the lines can be seen.

There is much more life than when it is inked, when it’s very clean, very clear. The contrasts may be too strong with the inking. Well, at least for me! Anyway, when I saw those pencils, I finally understood what caught me in Kirby: His expression of movement, of power; his emphasis on picture and expression with approximate anatomies, weird hands and faces. It’s not a problem because it works perfectly in Kirby’s context. TJKC: What is drawing you to comics? ANDRÉAS: I am attracted to doing comics for two different reasons. The one that first appealed to me was the adventure, the story. I like to follow a character as you do in a TV series; the passion of the average reader, the desire to know what will occur next. The other reason is that I like to do complicated things, things that are hard to do. I’d like to find new ways to tell a story, ways to tell different stories. TJKC: Do you consider yourself as a Kirby heir? ANDRÉAS: No, I don’t think so. Kirby set the rules of a field that later influenced me— but it was not Kirby directly. I have felt a lot more influenced by him recently when I saw his pencils. He went beyond the technique to become himself. This is certainly something that I’d like to do. I’d surely like to take the same road that he inwardly took and that he expressed on a page. That’s the goal of every artist. I’d like to simplify, to be more straightforward. Sometimes, I wonder if all those details, all those little things in every corner, those perspectives, aren’t the real me. I don’t know. It’s a kind of search. TJKC: Do you long for recognition as an artist with your elaborate style? ANDRÉAS: No, that’s something different. What really interests me is showing the distance between art and reality. As a matter of fact, reality is impossible to represent in comics. I don’t want the reader to forget that it’s art, because he’s reading a fiction. In Révélations Posthumes, I worked a lot with photographs. Now everything must be built in my mind. I prefer using my imagination and the least documentation I can. TJKC: What were your first American Andréas was kind enough to ink this Kirby piece we ran way back in TJKC #16, with spectacular results! influences? TJKC: Your books look like mosaics as far as script and art are concerned. ANDRÉAS: There were Bernie Wrightson, Barry Windsor-Smith. Do you consider yourself as a “baroque” artist? TJKC: People from The Studio? ANDRÉAS: No, not really. Baroque, I don’t know; I have no use for the ANDRÉAS: I was less touched by Kaluta or Jones, although I like Jones word. Apparently, both art and script emerge from the same corner of very much. Barry Windsor-Smith did influence me, but he came from my brain. I’m dragged along. It seems that I can’t tell a story straightKirby. Who are the other artists I like? Neal Adams; I have always line, from A to Z without mixing the letters in-between. When I finish admired his art, with his diving angles. I took those things from Adams. reading a graphic novel, the fact is I usually get it all, read it all. I know I have always been astounded by his way to show new angles that had that I won’t read it anymore, because everything was told, explained not been drawn before. And Alex Toth; he is an artist I admire deeply, and shown. In fact, it bothers me. When I read, I wouldn’t like to because he has such a level of simplicity and directness, which is someunderstand the book straight off. I’d like to be forced to re-read, to see thing that I can’t do. I also like Gil Kane for his very strong Tarzan my own limits. The problem is that you can’t—or it’s very difficult strip. Speaking of Tarzan, Kubert did for me the best Tarzan ever. It’s to—build stories that cast your own limits. The result will necessarily so elegant, very simple, direct; even better than Hogarth and Foster. remain within my own limits as I write the stories. The best thing of all 33

Kirby Swipes Submitted by Jean Depelley t’s been documented that Kirby had occasion to swipe from his artistic idols, particularly comic strip artists Hal Foster and Alex Raymond. Below are two more examples recently discovered by French Kirby fan Jean Depelley. Perhaps “swipe” is too harsh a word; “adaptation” might be more appropriate, as Kirby tended to incorporate only the most basic compositional elements, and then evolve the work to make it his own. But the influence from these source panels is hard to deny. Enjoy!★

(above) Compare this panel from Captain America Comics #8 (Nov. 1941) to the classic illustration from the 3/19/38 Prince Valiant Sunday page. Joe Simon has said he did layouts for Kirby at times, so it remains to be seen if the swiping came from Simon or Kirby (but Kirby was a big fan of Hal Foster’s work, and this Sunday was done the same year as the story where Prince Valiant wore the “goosemask” that inspired Kirby’s 1970s Demon design). (below) This cover to Boy Commandos #23 bears a strong resemblance to panels in the 6/7/36 and 6/28/36 Flash Gordon Sunday pages.

John Kricfalusi on Kirby

Interviewed by Chris Twomey (At first glance Jack Kirby and Ren & Stimpy creator John Kricfalusi may not seem to have much in common, but both artists have been major stylistic influences in their respective fields, and both had control of their most famous creations taken away from them. The Kirby influence in Kricfalusi’s work may not be too obvious either, but like any kid of the 1960s who read a comic on a Summer’s day, John was bound to be electrified by Kirby’s archetypal super-hero books at the magazine stand or on television. For as crude as the Marvel Super-Heroes cartoon was, the power of Kirby’s dynamic art taken from the adventures of Thor, The Hulk, or Captain America’s conflict with the Red Skull’s Sleepers, could not but capture the imagination of a generation. Even today Kirby’s legacy can still be seen in super-hero animation, merging with Kricfalusi’s retro look in the recent Hercules and Xena’s The Battle For Mount Olympus animated movie. I interviewed fellow Canadian John Kricfalusi twice in 1993 as Ren & Stimpy swept our nation, a year after he was fired from the show. Still he animatedly told me about his influences from TV, film, cartoons, and of course, comics. John was a Kirby and Marvel fan, and hinted at his super-hero homage to come, the Ripping Friends. These costumed, over-muscled, yet super-powerless “heroes” will be appearing as part of the Fall Fox Kids lineup on the Fox Network. Kricfalusi’s super-hero satire will be more like Not Brand Echh than New Gods, but Happy-happy, joy-joy; it’s Ren & Stimpy! will be remembering Jack through a love of characters (Stimpy’s the one on the left.) and futuristic technology.) JOHN KRICFALUSI: When I was a little kid I loved all the funny animal comics. I loved Harvey Comics with Casper The Friendly Ghost and all that stuff—the Hanna-Barbera comics, the Disney comics, the Warner Brothers comics—but in junior high I got addicted to Marvel comics, particularly the Jack Kirby stuff. I loved Fantastic Four. Kirby was an absolutely great storyteller. I don’t mean that the stories were deep or even intelligent. (laughs) It was just that if there was a scene that was supposed to be set, he staged it beautifully. He staged it like a film director. You really felt it. You believed it. If he did a scene of horseplay, like when The Thing and the Human Torch would get into their little fights, it was played with great comedy. He could do any emotion. I mean, the guy pioneered all these genres in comics too: The romance comics, which he staged totally differently than the super-hero stuff, which he staged totally differently than the monster stuff. I’ve never seen a more versatile comic artist in the whole history of comics— and within the same comic he would play different emotions, just by staging them. Forget what the story was. If you just analyzed the story without the picture, the logic of the stories and everything was ridiculous—just completely stupid. The stories would never make it in novels. They are stupid. I’m just talking about the storytelling which is a different thing than the story writing. Kirby was very dramatic.

A drawing of Kricfalusi’s latest creation, the Ripping Friends, which has just been added to the Fox Kids TV lineup.

Kirby character sheet of Mr. Mxyzptlk for the Super Friends animated series.

TJKC: Did you like Thor? KRICFALUSI: No. I never liked Thor because I hated the inking. I loved the drawings but the inking was so crude it just made it hard for me to read them. TJKC: There was great panels in Thor. KRICFALUSI: Oh yeah, there was some great drawings in it, but I always thought the inking really butchered it; but I’d read the Fantastic Four which had Joe Sinnott inking them and I thought he was great on Kirby. To me a comic book’s got to look great before I’ll read it. It always makes me really mad when people introduce themselves to me as, “Hey, I write comic books. I’m a comic book writer.” What the hell kind of a...? Get a real job. What do you mean you’re a comic book writer? What it means is that you don’t draw well enough to draw comic books—because that’s what you read comic books for, for the drawings. It’s a weird concept—

comic book writer. It’s not something you should brag about. The main thing was that Kirby drew huge, muscular, cool-looking super-heroes. That had really cool powers and looked really dynamic. The number one thing about Kirby was that he was dynamic. Everything was ten times stronger and bigger than anybody else’s stuff. Then on top of that he was just really good. He’s a really skilled artist, even beyond his caricature. I’ve seen some of his early drawings, just sketches from the War and stuff—from the battle front. They are just really good anatomy, good perspective, good solid drawing to begin with; but then he didn’t stick to that. He turned to making his own statement.

DC. Then the super-hero comics started to get really serious and that was the death of them for me. I’m sorry. but I cannot take guys who run around in their underwear seriously. At least when Stan Lee was doing it, he wrote jokes in them. They had cameos of he and Kirby in them, and they didn’t take themselves seriously. They knew it was ridiculous. They knew that the idea of super-heroes was completely ridiculous; but when I go into a comic book store today I am embarrassed. I see these super-serious covers—and everybody is always screaming in the comics, and they act as if this stuff can really happen. Like you can have these huge, muscular, tiny-headed vigilantes running around in long underwear. How the hell can you take that seriously? And yet all the comic artists today, and the writers and the fans, they think this stuff is real or something. I can’t go along with that. Give me Jack Kirby’s caricatures any day. Do you remember Not Brand Ecch comics in the ’60s? They were Mad comics put out by Marvel that made fun of their own work. They made fun of all the super-heroes—DC super-heroes and Charlton super-heroes and Marvel super-heroes—and Kirby must have done a couple stories. He did a take-off on the Fantastic Four’s epic story with the Silver Surfer; and that is what I liked about the guy—he made fun of himself. He didn’t take himself seriously; and he drew great cartoony drawings of all the super-heroes—it was really nice. I’ve still got that. Powdered Toast Man in Ren & Stimpy was poking fun at the idea of

TJKC: You hinted that he established the clichés of the super-hero genre, which is all male and power-oriented. How do you see it looking back with ’90s politically-correct eyes? KRICFALUSI: Actually, if you look at Fantastic Four, it was one of the first ones to also portray a woman’s point of view. They had really strong characters like Sue Storm, Ben Grimm’s blind girlfriend Alicia, and Johnny Storm’s girlfriend Crystal. I was in love with her. They did a lot of stories from the women’s point of view. Of course it was a man doing stories from a woman’s point of view. So it was the best you could do until women started drawing the comics. I guess [the comic strip] Cathy is all we’ve got. TJKC: What about the aspect of violence being presented as entertainment for boys? KRICFALUSI: I wouldn’t call it violent. There was never any blood in it; never any bones sticking through flesh like you see in comics nowadays—which to me is just there totally for shock value, because they can’t draw well enough to get any real emotion out of you. You’ve got to use shock value to carry it. What they used to do with super-heroes wasn’t violent. Nobody took it seriously. They were like cartoons, they were caricatures. They’d beat the crap out of each other and stuff, then get up and walk away. It was fantasy, totally fantasy; so I wouldn’t even call it violence, especially compared to what comics are today. Now you can get away with anything in a comic book, except for good drawing—fifth-generation Neal Adams-imitators like John Byrne, who’s also Canadian; everybody copies John Byrne.

TJKC: When did you stop reading comic books? KRICFALUSI: When Jack Kirby went to

TJKC: So are your super-heroes going to be self-conscious in any of these ways? KRICFALUSI: My super-heroes are funny first of all. You are not going to take them seriously, in the least. It totally makes fun of the whole concept of being a vigilante running around in your underwear. It’s gonna point out how stupid all that stuff really is. It’s going to be a big message to comic book fans: “Hey, let’s get f*cking real about this stuff.” Grow up. You’re a thirty-sixty-year-old man and you’re reading comic books and you’re taking them seriously. Stop it. People ask me all the time these days which comic books I read, which astounds me! And I have to tell them: “I’m a thirty-seven-year-old man; I’m sorry, but I don’t read comic books.”

Kirby character design for the villain Gemini (originally called Janus) from the Thundarr The Barbarian series.

may not have seen a sharp edge. He absorbed the popular culture by osmosis, like a tree with wide-ranging roots. As a visual thinker, Jack’s art was most influenced by the visual media. I suspect that whenever he got writer’s block he simply let whatever film or TV show he had seen the night before flow straight down his arm and out of his pencil. Jack falls into the same category as filmmaker Roger Corman. The appropriate term is not plagiarism but “exploitation.” Unlike Corman, who imitated other people’s films to exploit a popular trend at the box office, I believe that Jack was motivated by the pleasure he felt in translating images he saw on the big or small screen into the medium of which he was the unquestionable master. He got paid by the page, no matter what he put on each page. Generations of young comics fans paid mere dimes to stand on Jack’s shoulder and get a peek at his mind at work. Sometimes this took the form of parody or satire, which the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled to be constitutionally-protected speech. (That’s how Mad magazine gets away with it.) It is literally impossible to note all of the movie references which appear in Jack’s work. Virtually every book is steeped in the imagery of Hollywood. I will elucidate with a few choice examples. Here are the rules:

The Kirby Version A look at Jack’s film and TV influences, by John P. Alexander hen I first became aware of the art of Jack Kirby at the age of nine, everything was new to me. If I saw an image in a Kirby comic, I assumed that it had originated there. With 20/20 hindsight I can now look back and point out Jack’s own sources of inspiration. No idea is ever truly “original,” for we all stand upon the shoulders of giants. There is a thin line between homage and plagiarism and Kirby

1) In each case the suspected film or TV source must predate its appearance in a “Kirby Version.” 2) The source must have been accessible to Kirby at the time. 3) Vague or generic similarities are ignored. I invite the reader to peruse the vast body of Jack’s work for other “Kirby Versions.” Film fans don’t have to look hard; they leap out at you. Trivia: The earliest “Kirby Version” I have identified is a Boy Commandos story from 1942 which appropriated the plot of the Howard Hawk’s war film Air Force.

Example #1 (1967):

Kirby’s pencils for Thor #166, page 7. The look of the “Him” character was inspired by a race of beings called “Metrons” (hmm, that name sounds familiar) from the Star Trek episode “Arena” (see photo at right).

At the height of the Silver Age grandeur of Kirby’s work at Marvel is embedded the origin of a god-like creature first known only as “Him” (FF #65-67). The storyline begins in FF #65, pg. 17-18, when the Thing’s girlfriend, the blind Alicia Masters, is taken in hand by a strange visitor who appears in her apartment, and the two disappear into a solid wall. At the other end of this spatial portal is a flat screen standing within a vast scientific complex known as the “Beehive.” This imagery was co-opted from an Outer Limits episode called “The Boarderland.” Jack must have been a big fan of this 1963-65 TV series because he made a minor career out of incorporating Outer Limits material into his own stories. In “The Boarderland,” a scientific team penetrates a negative dimension where opposites

“Him,” Fantastic Four #65-67

Mark Hamill

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: To start this discussion, I guess we need to know how familiar you are with comics, and particularly with Jack Kirby. MARK HAMILL: I’ve been a fan of comics since I was a kid. Certainly anybody that had the interest I had in comics knew who Jack Kirby was. Later, I became much more aware of his plight, vis-a-vis getting his artwork back from Marvel Comics. Bill Mumy and Miguel Ferrer are two friends of mine who are both actors, but who I met through comic books rather than through acting. They were the ones that arranged to have this dinner where Jack and Roz were invited, and Jerry Siegel and his wife were there. Bob Kane was there and [his wife] Elizabeth. When I was invited I said, “Sure, I’d love to come.” Just in terms of their importance to the industry, it’d be like having dinner with Max Fleischer and Walt Disney and Walter Lantz to the cartoon industry. They were titans, really. TJKC: Where was that dinner held? MARK: It was at Bill Mumy’s house in Laurel Canyon. I also went out to [Jack’s] house once in Thousand Oaks. [Jack] was a very self-effacing guy. You’d never know from his demeanor how important he really was. We were joking, and I said that when I first saw Darth Vader, I thought, “Oh, it’s Doctor Doom.” (laughter) He certainly didn’t say, “Oh, he took my ideas,” or any of that kind of stuff. He was content with who he was and his abilities. TJKC: What was your impression of Jack when you met?

Interviewed Conducted by John Morrow

(The ever-versatile Mark Hamill is best known for playing Luke Skywalker in the original Star Wars movie trilogy, which contained more than a few similarities to some of Kirby’s comics. Recently, Mark has been in great demand as a voice-over artist for animation, most notably as the voice of the Joker on Warner Brothers’ Batman franchise. He also wrote the Dark Horse Comics mini-series Black Pearl, which has been developed as a computer game by game manufacturer Access. This interview was conducted by phone on February 13, 1999. Our heartfelt thanks to Bruce Timm for facilitating this interview.)

(right) This scene of Doom feasting in FF #87 is reminiscent of one featuring Darth Vader (above) from the original Star Wars movie.

by Jean Depelley and Gérard Jean (The French artist Jean Giraud—alias Moebius—began his career in comics in 1956 with short western stories. In the early ’60s, he assisted none other than Joseph Gillain (a.k.a. Jijé), one of the prominent European masters, published in the Spirou weekly comic magazine, author of numerous big hits in the realistic or humorous vein (Jean Valhardi, Jerry Spring, Blondin et Cirage). In 1963, Giraud started one of the most beautiful western series ever made: Blueberry, in collaboration with the brilliant writer Jean-Michel Charlier (34 graphic novels published to date). In the late ’60s, Giraud, under the pen name Moebius, began a new career which proved to be more adult and provocative, in the satirical publication Hara-Kiri, and in Métal Hurlant in which his visual talents exploded the sci-fi boundaries. Since that time, Moebius has done almost everything, either alone or with the writer Alexandro Jodorowsky (L’incal, Le Fou De La Sorbonne); portfolios, cartoons (Les Maîtres Du Temps), comic books (The Silver Surfer), and cinema (an aborted Dune project, designs for Alien, Le 5éme Element). In America, Dark Horse, Marvel, and Starwatcher Graphics publish Moebius’ work. This interview was conducted in French on January 30, 1999, during the 26th Festival of Angouleme (France) where Moebius was promoting his two new books: Coeur Couronné (Humanoïdes Associés) and his biography Moebius/Giraud, Histoire De Mon Double (Edition 1). We wish to thank Anne Caisson (Humanoïdes Associés), Jean-Marc Vovau and, of course, Moebius, for their time and kindness.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Let’s start with a question about Jijé whom you worked with at the beginning of your career. Jijé went to the USA between 1950 and 1953. A radical change occurred in his art and topics before and after this travel. His first production being mostly humorous in the Hergé manner, the later much more realistic, like the western Jerry Spring. Do you think your master may have been exposed to and influenced by the Boys’ Ranch series that was released at that time by Simon and Kirby? MOEBIUS: No, Jijé was only interested in Milton Caniff [Moebius takes a rapid glance at the Boys’ Ranch reprint collection]. He thought that comic books were totally horrible! They were too savage and barbarous, with no respect for the holy rules of picture’s beauty. Oh no, Joseph Gillain was a real maniac! Had he seen the work Kirby had done at the end of his life—I think he may have seen it anyway—he’d probably have liked it—but he would have been severe. Kirby was young at that time, and that work was based upon quantity—not only a quantity of characters, but the artist’s as well. He had to produce 2-4 pages a day, and it is difficult to produce high standard quality in those conditions. TJKC: In 1965, you left Blueberry to Jijé to go to the USA. Were you then exposed to Marvelmania? MOEBIUS: Not really. I was not very interested in comic books at that time. As a matter of fact, I noticed some nice stuff then, but eventually got interested in comic books in the late Seventies, early Eighties, with the coming of Neal Adams, the artist of Deadman. [“Deadman” was published in France as a graphic novel in 1978.] Neal Adams was a real revolution in comics. It is hard to imagine the impact he had in France. It was quite extraordinary!

(these pages) Kirby and Moebius Silver Surfer sketches.

TJKC: What about Kirby? MOEBIUS: Unfortunately, Kirby was a bit underrated in France at that time. It took time, even for me, to understand what was grand in him. I think that he gave his best [later in] his career with those magisterial, hallucination-like, deep and visual creations about the New Gods. They were great, even the greatest! His art was so free, so furious, and so superb—but my own contact with American comic books occurred in 1988 with Stan Lee and the Surfer. TJKC: Why did you work on this character? MOEBIUS: I was an eager reader of the Surfer. I preferred the series John Buscema did, published in the French magazine Fantask. I used to read it spontaneously as you do with popular comics. I remember I 54

Moebius Interview

Karl Kesel Interview Interviewed by Mark Coale

(Comics creators have been following in the footsteps of Jack Kirby for more than half a century. Whether it was in the 1940s with Captain America, the 1960s with Fantastic Four or the 1970s with New Gods, Kirby’s footsteps have always left big shoes to fill. Naturally, it wasn’t always easy to be the one to succeed the King on a book, especially on the ones that have legendary status (like FF or some of the Fourth World stuff ). Everyone can probably give his or her own best example of a creator who couldn’t match the work that came before. A better place to look for success is not at those who followed Kirby, but where his material was picked up at a later date and reused. This could include concepts, characters, and even slogans created by the King. Since Kirby left such a large legacy, there are certainly plenty of examples to site of “revivals” or “resurrections” at Marvel and DC. Of course, it’s difficult to find parts of those two companies’ mythos that weren’t touched by Kirby during his various tenures at those places. For this piece, we talked with the industry professional that in recent years has become well known for his love of and use of Kirby characters: Karl Kesel. In less than a decade, Kesel has brought back dozens of Kirby creations in books like Adventures of Superman, Guardians of Metropolis and Superboy. In an interview conducted via e-mail over the course of a few days in October 1999, Kesel discussed his love of Kirby’s work and his using some of the more classic characters created by the King.)

(above) A Kes el (top) Kesel in solo job on the Newsboy ks on the Fem Legion, then and now. ale Furies.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: When did you first begin to appreciate the Kirby characters? KARL KESEL: When I picked up my first comics as a kid, I bought a Superman title, a Batman title, and Fantastic Four #68! Superman and Batman I already knew from television, but I have no idea why I picked up that FF! They were characters that meant nothing to me—but something about that book (as Jack might say) “grabbed” me. The first comic I started actively collecting was Silver Surfer, another Kirby creation. I quickly fell in love with the FF—especially “The Skrull Takes a Slave” storyline (FF #89-93). There was just such a sense of wonder to the book! Every issue was, literally, a new world to explore! My real appreciation for Jack’s work didn’t fully come together until his Fourth World series. The vast scope of the work, the interconnectedness of the titles (without being repetitive—each had a completely different point of view and purpose), and the jumping back and forth in the narrative—I’d never seen anything like it! TJKC: Has your appreciation of the characters changed from your first readings from then until now? Have your opinions of any characters changed since you had the opportunity to write them? KESEL: Like the Warners cartoons, I see new and different things in Kirby’s characters now than I did as a kid. For instance, when I was young I never understood why Tommy was in the Newsboy Legion—he didn’t have any special “powers” (like intelligence, or fighting ability, or verbosity) like the others did. Only much later did I realize that Tommy was the figure readers could most easily identify with—he was normal, like me! But— and this is the masterstroke—he was the Newsboy’s leader! To me, the underlying message was that you didn’t have to be super-intelligent, or athletic, or gregarious; you still had an important role to play. Kirby’s uninked pencils from Jimmy Olsen #139.

TJKC: Do you have a favorite Kirby character, either as a creator or from a personal aesthetic level? I noticed that you’ve used the Female Furies on a number of occasions and (along with wife Barbara) even created a new set of Furies when you wrote Hawk and Dove? KESEL: The Furies are favorites, certainly—along with all of Apokolips. Gotta love a planet of Evil Gods! But without a doubt my two favorite concepts are the Challengers of the Unknown, and Fantastic Four—by Kirby, or anyone else! I think that Challengers has an amazingly positive message at the core of its concept: That you don’t need any sort of

super-powers—that through determination and work and skill (and maybe a little luck), a normal person can overcome any obstacle! Superpowers? Who needs super-powers? And the FF is a family—who can’t relate to that? By the way, a lot’s been made of the similarities between the Challengers and the FF—and there are a lot of parallels, that’s true, but there is also a strong, defining difference between them. The Challengers are normal people who act like super-heroes, while the FF are super-heroes who act like normal people. Not to take anything away from Jack, but his heroes are almost always extremely heroic, so I think 63

Mike Allred Interview Conducted by John Modica at the 1999 WonderCon in Oakland, California on April 17, 1999

d. lre Al e ik M

and I remember we went to this secondhand store that had stacks of used comics. With a grease pencil, they wrote “5¢” on each of them. They had FF #1 for a nickel—and we didn’t have a nickel! (laughter) We ran home, and by the time we got back, it was gone. To this day, my older brother kicks himself again and again for not asking the shop to hold onto it for him. As far as reading and enjoying them growing up, for me it was always Dick Ayers or Joe Sinnott on inks. Of course, the Ayers stuff would have to have been reprints. They did it for me; I just didn’t know who they were until years later. My mission at this convention is to pick up as many of Kirby’s monster comics as possible, preferably in as ratty condition as possible so I can just devour them, and have them with me all the time. It’s funny; as a kid, you don’t get it. You don’t realize just how great it is until later, when you’re doing it yourself, with hindsight, and just relating it to other work. The work Jack Kirby did was phenomenal. As a kid, I loved when the Fantastic Four ran into the Inhumans. Black Bolt looked so cool, and that he never said anything was so intense.

(Mike Allred burst upon the comics scene in 1992 with his character Madman, and in relatively few issues, became one of the shining lights of the current comics scene. Aided by the inspired coloring of his wife Laura, he delivered a much-needed spark of fun and creativity with his Madman series, and is currently launching his own comics line, AAA Pop, featuring his new book The Atomics. Mike was kind enough to offer to ink a cover for TJKC, specifically requesting something featuring the Fantastic Four. The result is this issue’s wraparound cover, featuring color by Laura. Our thanks to both of them for their exceptional work, and for taking time out for this interview.)

(top left) “It! Girl” from Mike’s new series The Atomics.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Very simply; how did Jack Kirby influence you? MIKE ALLRED: Well, it’s not simple. In retrospect, I realize he’s been with me my whole life. When I was a kid, my dad always bought my big brother Lee and me comics, and my brother had amazing taste. If we were at a drug store or on a family trip, I tended to buy Hot Stuff or some Harvey thing, and my older brother would always buy really great stuff, which I found out years later would be Jack Kirby comics, and I eventually gravitated to my big brother’s far superior tastes. So I became a big Fantastic Four fan when I was a kid, and to this day it’s probably my favorite series of all time—the work that Jack did. TJKC: Do you recall a specific issue? MIKE: Yeah, I definitely remember a later Inhumans issue, #82 I think. Pretty sure that was my first exposure to Kirby and the FF. Love that cover! But I also remember one tragic event. My older brother was probably about twelve at the time, 68

Kirby Homage Gallery

When I first saw this pencil piece by Steven Butler, I did a double-take, thinking it was an unpublished Kirby Machine Man pin-up. This guy’s definitely got the Kirby Spirit! 70

(EDITOR’S NOTE: C’mon, admit it—you’ve tried to swipe Kirby’s work. We all have, haven’t we? Some of us are better than others, and a few have even made careers of it. But after we ran our Fan Art section in TJKC #23, we were literally deluged with submissions from all corners of the world. While I expected plenty of fan submissions, what I didn’t expect was the number of comics professionals who likewise sent us their own Kirby riffs, in homage to the man who inspired them to enter the comics biz in the first place. But whether the submissions were by fans or pros, and regardless of everyone’s different background and degree of artistic talent, all the contributors had one thing in common: An intense love for Jack’s work. These next few pages are just a small portion of what we’ve received, and stand as a testament to Jack’s influence on all of us. I’ll try to make room for more in an upcoming issue, but I’ve got such a huge stack, I’d have to do a couple of all-art issues to run them all. Still, don’t let that deter you; even if your work doesn’t see print, I love seeing your efforts.)