Working Methods: Comic Creators Detail Their Storytelling And Artistic Processes by TwoMorrows Publishing

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c omic c r eator s deta il their storytelling a nd a rtistic pr oc esses

Rarely is the process, unique to each artist, examined and documented. Working Methods puts the minds of comic artists under the microscope, highlighting the intricacies of the creative process, step-by-step. Three short scripts are each in-

terpreted in different ways by professional comic artists to illustrate the varied ways in which they “see” and “solve” the prob-

lem of successfully interpreting and transferring a script into visual comic form. The creative and technical choices of artists mark schultz, tim levins, jim mahfood, scott hampton, kelsey shannon, chris brunner, sean murphy, and pat quinn are documented as they work, allowing comic fans, artists, instructors, and students to enter a world rarely explored. Illustrated examples document the artists’ processes, and interviews clarify their individual approaches to storytelling and layout choices. In Working Methods, the exercise may be simple, but the results are profoundly complex.

WORKING METHODS

rofessional comic artists interpret scripts every day as they successfully transform the written word into the visual form.

j ohn low e

TwoMorrows Publishing, Raleigh, NC $21.95 in the US ISBN 978-1-893905-73-3

WORKING METHODS Comic Creators Detail Their Storytelling and Artistic Processes

b y j ohn low e

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WORKING METHODS

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WORKING METHODS Comic Creators Detail Their Storytelling and Artistic Processes

by john lowe

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Working Methods: Comic Creators Detail Their Storytelling and Artistic Processes by John Lowe Book Design by Scott Newman Edited by Annabelle Carr Artwork photographed by Ben Dashwood Early edits by Tia Lam, Scott Newman, and John Lowe Transcription services by Steven Tice Proofreading by Christopher Irving Published by TwoMorrows Publishing 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, North Carolina 27614 www.twomorrows.com • twomorrow@aol.com First Printing • May 2007 • Printed in Canada Softcover ISBN: 978-1-893905-73-3 Trademarks & Copyrights Entire contents are ©2007 John Lowe and TwoMorrows Publishing. All rights reserved. All scripts and art are ©2007 the respective authors and artists. Special thanks to the Savannah College of Art and Design, especially college President Paula Wallace, for granting the Presidential Fellowship that provided the funds to complete this book. Special thanks also to George Collazo, John McKinnon and Charlie Ribbens for providing college resources. Further thanks to Professor Mark Kneece and Scott Hampton for providing the scripts used in this book.

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working methods

contents 06

Acknowledgements

Introduction

Paddy

scott hampton

tim levins

Fight Night jim mahfood

pat quinn

sean murphy

Time Troubling mark schultz

102

chris brunner

126

kelsey shannon

150

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acknowledgements This book would have not been possible without the help

a few weeks she could make it more professional. After

of many people who virtually volunteered their talents

she returned it to me with her initial edits, I felt like the

and services. Professors Mark Kneece and Scott Hamp-

miller’s daughter when she discovers that she really can

ton were kind enough to create scripts for this project be-

spin straw into gold (and I didn’t even have to give

fore I even had a publisher. Steven Tice was very efficient,

Annabelle my first-born child). With the combined help

courteous and quick in transcribing all of the taped in-

of Scott and Annabelle, Working Methods has evolved

terviews. Tia Lam provided an initial edit of those inter-

into a unique and professional book.

views when she wasn’t hopping trains with her boyfriend.

I sound like I’ve just won an Oscar—and I still have a

I would like to extend a special thanks to the Savannah

few more people to thank. I’m grateful to my lovely wife

College of Art and Design, particularly college president

Ikeda, not only for encouraging me to undertake this

Paula Wallace, for granting me the Presidential Fellow-

project, but also for putting up with me during its cre-

ship that funded this book.

ation. To my parents-in-law, Stanley and Fumiko Fein-

Scott Newman and Annabelle Carr are the two peo-

gold, for their continuous support and for helping me

ple who contributed the most to this book. Scott is re-

decide upon a career in teaching.To my students at

sponsible for the outstanding visual design and layout in

SCAD, who challenge and reward me daily. To my

Working Methods. In addition to being a great designer,

mother, for raising me properly and always encouraging

he also happens to be a very good artist and illustrator,

me to pursue my interests. To all of the artists who do-

and I predict he will be drawing his own comic book

nated their time and effort to make this book possible.

within a year. Annabelle is a family friend who also hap-

And finally, to my children—Jonah, Koji, Atticus and

pens to be an editor by profession. I showed her this book

Betelhem—for thinking their dad has the coolest job in

for a quick proofread a few days before I planned to send

the world. I do.

it off to TwoMorrows. She let me know that if I gave her

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introduction I have always been curious about the creative processes

I’ve since developed a storytelling exercise that requires

of other sequential artists. Visual art is often a solitary

all my students to draw a three-page story from the same

profession.

script. The scripts are visually challenging. Students must

As a young man, I tried to bridge the isolation by

create original characters and research historic or scien-

scouring the library for books on techniques, illustration

tific specifics. I emphasize narrative craftsmanship over

and comic production. I found an abundance of material

drawing style. For the critique, I ask the students to share

on the first two subjects, but I can only remember one

all the research materials, notes and drawings they used to

concerning production: How to Draw Comics the Marvel

design their final pages. Each person brings an entirely

Way by Stan Lee and John Buscema. I borrowed that

unique visual sensibility and approach to the work. Since all

book so often that I eventually bought my own copy. I

of the students have wrestled with the same problems, they

would sit up at night with my sketchpad and pencils, try-

pay particular attention to each other’s varying solutions.

ing to master the book’s lessons of perspective, anatomy

One day, at the end of one such critique, I mentioned

and dynamic panel compositions.

that I ought to have some of my fellow professional se-

During my undergraduate years in college, Will

quential artists attempt the exercise. I thought it would

Eisner published Comics and Sequential Art. Unlike

be valuable for my students to see how a seasoned story-

Drawing Comics the Marvel Way, Mr. Eisner’s book fo-

teller would interpret the very same scripts. My students

cused on visual storytelling. It outlined the principles

liked the idea so much; they were upset that I hadn’t al-

and theories involved in creating a narrative with both

ready done it.

words and pictures.

So I got to work. I sought out working comic book

At roughly the same time, I discovered the magazine

artists with strong experience and excellent storytelling

Step-by-Step in the university library. Each article used

skills. For each script, I intentionally chose professionals

photographs and an interview to clearly document the

with dissimilar styles. I asked the participating artists to

steps a working artist took to create a particular illustra-

photograph their physical processes, and I conducted in-

tion. This publication helped demystify the creative

terviews to explore their script interpretations and visual

process and made me believe that I could one day suc-

storytelling ideas.

ceed as an illustrator.

To my knowledge, no other book has compared the

Many great books on comics technique and theory

processes of professional artists interpreting the same

have since been written. The internet and its vast resources

script. I hope that this comparison will shed new light on

now make it possible to find tutorials, artwork, and other

the many creative possibilities inherent in visual story-

artists’ documented processes without leaving home. How-

telling. I hope it will inspire new artists to explore those

ever, when I began teaching comics and visual storytelling

options in each script they encounter.

at the Savannah College of Art and Design in 2002, I saw that students still needed a deeper understanding of the

— John Lowe

narrative process that makes our art unique.

(whose mother is proud to call her son a professor)

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Paddy:Working Methods

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paddy Script by scott hampton Artists scott hampton tim levins

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Script: Paddy

page 1 Note: This segment is seen as a flashback with captions for dialogue until we cut to present-day. Panel 1: Black panel with a small point of light. This is a tunnel opening. Voice: What happened then, Paddy? Once you were in the car. Paddy: He said she’d have to be dispatched. That was the word he used, “dispatched”— Panel 2: We now see the tunnel opening clearly. Vague hint of the city. Paddy: Like a telegram full of bad news. Panel 3: POV int. car. We exit the tunnel and see that we are on a curving two-way street along the edge of Central Park in New York City. Paddy: He gives me the low-down, how she’s the prosecution’s star witness, blah, blah. You know the drill. 2: Hands me a photo. Panel 4: Our first good look at the car and its occupants: A goon is driving. Another goon is riding shotgun and keeping an eye out. Yet another goon (Paddy) is looking at a snapshot. The fourth guy is the Big Boss: classier, older than the others. The time period is the 1930s or ‘40s. Classic gangster period. Paddy: And I know her. Panel 5: The snapshot held in Paddy’s hand. Voice: Well? Paddy: Not really. To say hello to. She lived on the street. Panel 6: The car pulls to the curb outside a subway entrance. Paddy: She was a neighbor.

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paddy script

page 2 Paddy makes his way down into the subway and waits for the woman to show up. It’s rush hour; lots of people are getting off work. He sees the woman coming onto the platform from a stairway. The woman waits among the crowd at the edge of the platform for the train. Paddy moves into position behind her. Voice: So, what did you do? The train is entering the station. He pushes her. Paddy: My job.

page 3 Panel 1: Many years later. Paddy is much older but recognizable, leaning against a large oak desk in a nicely appointed office. Young (mid-twenties) goons are clustered around him. Another older guy stands by the door. Older guy: All right boys, let’s break it up. It’s still a workin’ day. Panel 2: Paddy stands and takes a drag on a cigarette. The others start to leave the room. Older guy singles one out. Older guy: You’ve got the Keller delivery, right? Goon: Right, no sweat. Panel 3: Older guy speaks to Paddy from the door as the others finish exiting. Paddy is behind the desk, looking out the window. Older guy: Okay if I take off? I promised Marsha I’d give her a ride to LaGuardia. Paddy: Sure. Older guy: I’ll be back in a couple of hours. Panel 4: Ext. Guys are leaving big, nice house and getting into cars. Some are laughing or smiling. Paddy watches from an upper-story window. Panel 5: Back in the office. Paddy is alone as he takes another drag on a cigarette while pulling a snapshot from a drawer. Panel 6: Paddy sits behind the desk and contemplates the snapshot.

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Scott Hampton

Known for his artistic diversity, Scott Hampton has illustrated such iconic properties as Batman, Sandman, Black Widow, Hellraiser, and Star Trek. He has also worked on creator-owned projects such as The Upturned Stone. Scott began his career by following in the footsteps of his brother, fellow comic book creator Bo Hampton. Both Scott and Bo studied under the great Will Eisner in 1976. Scott's first professional comics work was the six-page story Godfather Death, released by Epic Illustrated in 1982. His work on Silverheels from Pacific Comics in 1983 is regarded as the first continuing painted comic. Recent works include Spookhouse, released in 2004 by IDW Publishing, featuring sequential adaptations of his favorite ghost stories; and Batman: Gotham County Line, from DC Comics in 2005. Scott Hampton is also pursuing a passion outside of comics: filmmaking. He completed his first short independent film, The Tontine, in April, 2006. He lives with his wife Letitia in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

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scott hampton

the script

something that would allow certain decision-making opportunities on the part of the artist. I wanted it to have a great deal

John Lowe: When you wrote the script for Paddy, did

of flexibility in that way. For example, an artist could turn the

you write it for other artists or for yourself?

woman into a little fourteen year-old girl. The back-story could be interpreted differently. I hope other artists will take it in dif-

Scott Hampton: Both for myself and as an exercise for

ferent directions than I did. Something that seems quite specific

other artists.

can actually have a lot of room for play.

JL: It’s a full script. Do you always work that way? SH: That’s the way I usually do them.

roughs

JL: I know some artist/writers will use pictures as well as words in their scripts, but you prefer to write all the

JL: What are the first steps you take when approaching

words first.

this or any story?

SH: Absolutely. I really don’t confer with the visual part of my

SH: I take the script and block off what I think are natural

brain when I do it, because I’m mostly thinking about telling

tiers. I break it down in that way, from page to page. Then I

a good story. The challenge later on is to make the story work

start doing the roughs. I’ll do up a rough that’s a quarter of a

visually.

piece of 8.5" x 11" typing paper, so I get four on a page.

JL: Do you approach everything you write like this?

JL: Do you have a little template that you make for yourself to do those?

SH: As long as I’m writing for myself, I do. If I’m writing for someone else, I have to think about the visuals at the same time.

SH: Yes. From that point, I’ll just get the roughs where I like

That’s what I did with my Legends of the Dark Knight job.

them. Sometimes I’ll do multiple roughs, depending on the

I was supposed to write that for Kent Williams but he took on

complexity. Then I transfer the best one over—usually with the

another project, so I ended up doing the art on it myself.

Artograph, because it will enlarge. And boom: I start working.

JL: We should mention that you originally slated Paddy as

JL: When you’re working out your storytelling, do you

a four-page script, with two pages in between as a way to

stick to basic shapes?

help build the suspense. For our purposes in this book,

SH: Not really. I draw most of the stuff. It’ll be fairly rough—

we decided to condense the script to three pages.

it won’t be super-tight—but it’ll be there. In between the four

Also, you initially planned to do it all in a six-panel grid,

or five lines will be the real line. But no, they’re not just shapes,

but then you changed it to accommodate the plot. Those

unless of course there’s some sort of dense background like a

bits that were condensed into page two are especially in-

bunch of trees.

teresting because they contain no dialogue, which leaves

JL: Right, a generic background. But if you showed the

a lot of room for interpretation by different artists. It’s

roughs to an editor or someone else, they’d definitely be

really up to each artist to decide how to show pacing and

able to read them?

story there.

SH: Oh, yeah.

SH: Exactly. I thought that would be really effective as an exercise. It seems very specific and you might think everyone

JL: And they’re done very small with pencil, right?

would approach it in exactly the same way. Not so.

SH: Right.

When I wrote this script, I was very conscious of trying to make

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Working small allows Scott to develop storytelling and compositional choices quickly. It also prevents him from wasting too much time and effort on a drawing that may ultimately be eliminated.

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working scott hampton methods

JL: How do you go about placing the word balloons? Do you leave space for dialogue placement in the thumbnails? SH: I don’t leave space; I put the captions and balloons right into my thumbnails and I try not to let anything important get up in that area.

research and references JL: With a story like this, do you do a great deal of research prior to drawing your thumbnails, or do you research after your thumbnails in order to get the finishing touches on your drawing? SH: It varies a little bit. Every once in a while, I lay it all out and then search out my reference. But I usually look at the script and get an idea in my head of roughly what I’m looking for. Then I go through books I have, find my reference, and cull it. I may find just what I’m looking for, or something that’s approximate. I often make a note to myself that says, “Put in a castle from this book, page 62, here.” I won’t even draw that on the rough. JL: You’ll just note the reference so you can draw it later. SH: Right. JL: Is that how you approached this story? There’s a very specific time period here, so the cars and the background were all researched and referenced. Am I correct? SH: You bet. JL: What referencing tools do you use? Probably use the Internet, right? SH: No, I never use the Internet and I’ll tell you why. As far as I’m concerned, 72 dpi jpegs aren’t clear enough. If I’m going to use reference, it’s usually not for a person. I’ll either shoot my

One of Scott’s favorite reference sources for 1930’s environmental photog-

own photo reference on a person or I’ll just make it up. But en-

raphy is the Dover Publications book New York in the Thirties by Berenice

vironments such as architecture and cars often need to be fairly

Abbott. Panel one on page two of Scott’s story is a perfect example of using

exact. I want to be clear, so I go to print.

reference photos to create a believable, detail-rich environment.

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Scott often sketches right on top of his reference images to approximate the settings and poses he plans to draw.

JL: Let’s talk about this story specifically. You worked

that correct?

with exteriors from the 1940s. Did you use the library? Is

SH: Exactly.

that your reference tool of choice?

JL: Did you actually set up the interior for that panel in

SH: That’s often where I go. I also have a number of books of

your own house?

my own. I took out my Dover books with photographs by Berenice Abbott, who did all these photographs in the thirties

SH: That’s right. I use my own house if it will work. I have a

and forties. I use her photos as the basis for my backgrounds

staircase that allowed me to get some angles from above fairly

and cars all the time.

easily. I used my dining room table as the desk for the main character. I just made it a little smaller in my drawing. And I

JL: Is Abbott’s work in one Dover book or a series?

had my wife, Letitia, shoot me standing around in overcoats in

SH: It’s a series of books, but then she’s also been collected in one

a number of different postures so I could be the henchmen.

big book, with larger photographs.

JL: You were all the henchmen?

JL: But where there’s an interior, like the one on page

SH: All the henchmen and the main character. I think once or

three, you’ve said you often set up your own reference. Is

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scott hampton

twice I might have asked Letitia to fill in as a person. JL: I remember that when you began your comic career, you would never use reference. You thought it was cheating in some ways. SH: Essentially, yeah. JL: But now you realize that, for someone who can draw, reference is almost essential to getting natural poses, rather than the generic, repeatable poses that the brain calls up from memory. SH: That’s exactly right. First, I think it’s important to be able

Scott uses an Artograph to transfer his small pencil sketch onto two-ply

to draw most anything from your head. You don’t want to use

Bristol board (Strathmore 500 series).

reference as a crutch, but as something that gives you greater verisimilitude and variety. You’re right; we do fall into patterns when we draw from our heads. As much as I love the work of artists like Mike Mignola, Kevin Nowlan and Mark Schultz, sometimes I see that the choices they’re making are the same ones they normally make. And I find that in myself. I decided I had to give myself permission to use the reference, both as a refining tool and as a time-saver, because I have to work fast! I thought to myself, “Okay, I’ll use these reference tools to make my process more fun.” And oddly enough, it gives me something to do besides just sit down to a blank piece of paper and draw, which is sometimes painful. So reference speeds me up.

Next, he refines the pencils 60–75 percent, saving the rest of the detail for the inking stage.

Reference can add that extra element of realism that we sometimes want. But the key is never to be a slave to the reference. Say my background is a castle. I might change the lighting on it or I might not, but I’m not going to break my back to make it different if it’s more or less what I need.

character design JL: Did you design the characters prior to going to the page, or did you just have a good idea in your head of what they were going to look like? Using a Hunt 102 crow quill, he inks the figures and backgrounds in FW

SH: I had an idea.

Acrylic ink. Sometimes he clips the ends of cheap brushes to square them off.

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JL: Right. This is just a three-page story. If it were larger—say, a graphic novel—would you design out characters in advance? SH: Sadly, no. [John laughs.] That’s why they generally start to look better after a couple of pages. [Laughter.] I basically have to do it that way. I’m running at full speed from the very beginning. JL: So it’s very organic. You don’t do turnarounds or any of that stuff? SH: No. I just don’t have the time, and often I don’t have the patience. I have a sense of what I want, so I’ll go in and start doing it.

going to the board JL: After you have your rough pencils, I assume you take them to the Artograph and project them onto board. What type of surface do you prefer to work on? SH: Rough. It tends to be two-ply Bristol board because that’s what we get from the company. But if I want to get some better effects with the paint, I’ll sometimes pull out my own four- or five-ply paper. JL: Do you still use Strathmore Bristol? SH: You bet. I use the Strathmore 500 series, not 400. The 400 is bad stuff. JL: When you’re projecting those drawings down and sketching them in, do you still work loosely with pencil on your board? SH: When I’m putting down the work from the Artograph, I’m just laying it out. I refine it once I turn off the machine. JL: So you sort out your placement first. Then you finish up your drawing. Scott uses the public library and his personal book collection to seek out

SH: Right.

reference materials for environmental details like cars, buildings and signs.

JL: With this project, was the choice of medium solely budgetary, or was it dependent on the story?

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scott hampton

The final panel is completed on a piece of two-ply Bristol board. Scott will scan this drawing and use Adobe Photoshop to place it in his page layout.

SH: I tend to get hired for painted jobs, so I have to paint. But

Joey Cavalieri hooked me up with, they specifically asked me

if I can choose, I base it on the story. I’m doing a bunch of sto-

if I could do it in black and white. Why? Because of these

ries for this solo book right now. I’m making them up as I go,

Paddy pages!

and after I’ve written each one, I ask myself, “All right, how

JL: Will you work the Batman story in a similar fash-

do I approach this? Would it be better if it were monochrome,

ion? You used a lot of ink wash with Paddy. You

full-color, or a mix of both?” If it’s my choice, I choose based on

warmed and cooled some things. Will do that for the

what represents the story best.

Batman story?

JL: So, when a company hires you to freelance, it’s gen-

SH: I don’t think so. What I will do, though, is a good bit of

erally because you’re known for painting.

dry brush. I’ve seen Robert Fawcett’s work. Dry brush works.

SH: Right. But for this Batman story with Steve Niles that

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Many of the steps in Scott’s process can be seen on this piece of board.

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working scott hampton methods

To increase the tension and urgency of a moment, Scott cuts between points of view. Although he doesn’t show all the action, Scott uses isolated images to imply that Paddy pushes the woman in front of a passing train.

inking

SH: Often, I do my linework with a Hunt 102 crow quill. But if I’m going for something that’s more in the Fawcett vein, like a few panels in Paddy, then I’ll do almost all of it with brush.

JL: How much will you refine the drawings in pencil before you go to ink?

When it comes to brushes, I use a really nice brush like a Se-

SH: I’d say maybe 70 percent. I absolutely have to have some

ries Seven No. 2 or No.3 Winsor Newton. But I’m also find-

things tight—like eyeballs. Crossed and improperly placed eyes

ing it effective to clip the ends off of a little cheap brush like a

will screw up a face. The eyes are the focus of almost any panel,

Yasutomo Silverado. I clip them ever so slightly, just to make

so I have to be exact. But with everything else, there’s room to

them a little bit more squared-off. They’re great. They’re

just kind of make it up as I go or play with it.

acrylic brushes; black with white tips. Fawcett once said that when other painters are about to throw their brushes away,

JL: What specific tools do you use to ink with?

that’s when he can really get the most out of those brushes. I

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know I keep bringing him up, but he’s my biggest influence

SH: Mostly the brush. Again, it’s not watered down that

these days, and he was right about this.

much. The thicker it is, the bluer the tint. If it dilutes too much it just becomes a transparent wash with little dots of pigment

A brush that’s been messed with enough doesn’t come to a per-

floating in it.

fect tip. Have you ever taken a brush that’s crumbly and then

JL: What would you do if you wanted to warm it up?

found that you could get the most perfect, delicate lines by turning the brush?

SH: First of all, you can mix a paint called Unbleached Tita-

JL: You have to turn it a certain way.

nium with a black. Use more of the Unbleached Titanium than the black, and you’ll get a warmer sort of gray.

SH: It’s a “feel” thing.

JL: So you use the 102 crow quill pen with FW Acrylic

JL: As a painter, you have a more organic approach.

Ink, and when you create a wash with a brush, you use

You’re used to working with mass and shape and tone,

watered-down acrylic paint?

and I imagine you have a great feel for the brush.

SH: I’d say 95 percent of the time, yes.

SH: Exactly. I’m very conscious of that. I’m always attracted

JL: So, if you’re painting, first you work out the panels on

to the different textures.

your Bristol board or Strathmore, and then you tape off

JL: What kind of ink do you use?

the edges before you paint. What tape do you use?

SH: I use the FW Acrylic.

SH: Scotch Magic tape. There was a time when they used to

JL: I’m specifically looking at page three, panel three,

differentiate it as Scotch Magic Transparent, but I think it’s

where Paddy is looking out the window. The ink on his

just called Scotch Magic tape. It’s a 3M product. It’s fabulous.

face is much lighter. Do you achieve that by just adding

You can get a nice, clean border that doesn’t leak. And if you’re

water to the ink?

careful when you pull it up, it won’t rip your paper.

SH: Sometimes. But if you just use water to dilute your ink,

JL: So you essentially create a border for yourself that al-

you’re going to get a fairly warm-looking gray without adding

lows you to paint organically without worrying about

any pigment. It will go down very smoothly. If it’s a big space,

stopping at the edge. It keeps the border clean.

it may have some weirdness on the edges when it dries. But

SH: These days, with Photoshop, I rarely use tape because I

more often than not, it’s fairly flat and you can lay it down

don’t care about the original going outside the borders. But

fairly easily. Here, I was looking for something with a little

when I work with several panels on one page, I tape them to

more texture to it. So I probably took my acrylic paint, the Mars

protect the border in between.

Black Liquitex, and diluted that down until it was very thin.

JL: So with this story you didn’t have to worry; your ink

Then I used that for my wash.

washes were done on separate sheets of paper. You would

JL: Oh, okay. So his face and hair are probably diluted

just import them into Photoshop and arrange them.

acrylic paint. How did you achieve the blues that we talked about earlier? SH: For a cooler, bluish gray, all you have to do is mix Mars

panels versus pages

Black with Titanium White. JL: When you ink with watered-down acrylics, do you

JL: I think your approach to your work has changed. You

use a pen or a brush?

don’t work on a whole page at once anymore, do you?

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scott hampton

To achieve a more textured effect for his washes, Scott dilutes Mars Black Liquitex acrylic paint.

SH: Sometimes I do. I probably will with the Batman job I’m

SH: No, 400 dpi full-color.

about to do.

JL: And then you just placed them together in Photoshop

JL: But you work out most of the panels individually?

for output?

SH: Exactly.

SH: Right. I imported them into a page template I had, then I sized and cropped them and often played with the levels and

JL: In some ways, that frees you, doesn’t it? If you screw

saturation little bit, but that’s all about getting the image that’s

something up, you can just throw it out.

already there to look a certain way. It’s not a radical change.

SH: Yeah, that’s right.

And that’s basically it. There might be the littlest bit of cleanup. I might have had something goofy happen and I decide to

JL: Did you scan them in at 300 dpi gray scale?

fix it by cloning. That’s the danger of Photoshop. You know that

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you can always make corrections in Photoshop. That makes it

you’re not leaving it open for the color. Is that a little bit

harder to just go in and correct it on the original. [Laughter.]

faster for you as well?

JL: So for the Batman story, you’re actually going to work

SH: Yes, because I don’t have to color it. Then I’m looking for

on the page as a whole?

fifteen pages a month; three or four a week.

SH: That’s what I’m planning. JL: How do you make that decision? Why choose the

advice

whole page after you’ve been working one panel at a time? SH: I like the page as a whole. That’s the main thing. I don’t

JL: Do you have any advice for young cartoonists? What

want to turn this in as a scan job. I’d rather turn them in as

are some things that you think are just essential to good

actual pages so that when I get them back, I’ve got continuity

storytelling?

pages, which I love. We never get to see those anymore. If I

SH: Well, I think the single most essential thing is to have a

could get my way, I would have it lettered on the board as well,

reader who doesn’t know a thing about comics look at your

because I hate the separation.

work. We take a lot for granted in comics because we speak the language. But to be successful, a story has to be clear to the general public. Show your girlfriend or boyfriend the rough. If he

rate of production

or she can understand it without help, it’s going to work. Clarity is the most important thing. In the theater, there’s a

JL: If you want to make a living in comics, you really have

great old saying that all your emotion and subtlety is of no use

to be able to produce pages quickly. How quickly will you

if you can’t be heard from the back row. And that’s what I’m

produce a page like these, using a pen-and-ink wash? Do

saying. You’ve got to speak loudly and clearly so that the back

you have a quota for yourself per week or per month?

row hears it. Then you start layering on all those nuances and

SH: The painting sometimes takes a little bit longer, only be-

subtleties.

cause of the way I paint it. I pencil it first. Then I ink the fig-

Most kids who do comics are attracted to the design aspect.

ures and the backgrounds. Then I put a little color in and just

They’re interested in those wacky design choices that make re-

mold from there. The inking stage is part of it, but I don’t ink

ally fun-looking pages. The problem is that people read comics

it to the same level I would if I were leaving it in ink.

more for the stories than to be jazzed by the design. Look at

I try to produce a page of painted work every one to three days,

your audience and make sure you’re communicating well before

depending on the medium. I try to maintain that rate through-

you take off with the design.

out the course the month, taking a day off here or there.

JL: That’s good advice for students. Make it work in a grid; make it work in a panel first.

I don’t have a nine-to-five sort of situation like some artists do. I work pretty much any time I can manage it. And the week-

SH: Yeah. So that’s the old bugaboo. Kids think we’re so

ends are not for going to the beach. I tend to use those as well.

boring to keep on them about that, but a glitch in story-

My days off come in the middle of the week, out of nowhere.

telling is like a scene in one of those old movies where you

JL: So, if you’re working on a painted project, you expect

suddenly see the microphone in the shot. You know? I don’t

to complete somewhere between two and three pages per

want to see the machinery of the gods. I want to believe. I

week. But if you’re doing strictly black-and-white work,

want to be absorbed.

the inking is going to have to be more refined because

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At work in his home studio, Scott uses a regular-sized drawing table, a tabloret to hold his inking and painting supplies, a Luxo light and an ordinary chair (with a really comfy cushion).

Some people just don’t question their own choices enough. They

SH: Yeah—I told a student, “This is the best compliment I can

don’t question how their work will be perceived. They just as-

give you: If I came across this on the stands, I would buy it.”

sume that if they like it, everyone else will.

JL: Absolutely.

When you’re showing your work and you’re listening to other people talk about it, try to read between the lines. A person might say, “Oh, I think this is very nice,” when, in fact, they’re just trying to get you to go away. [Laughter.] “Well, Bill loves it!” Bill’s your best friend! And Bill sells you pot at cheap prices. You know? [Laughter.] JL: This is my benchmark: Would I pay money out of my pocket for it? If I’ll pay money for it, then it works.

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Scott Hampton’s Paddy

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Tim Levins

Tim Levins studied fine art and classical animation before breaking into the comics business in the mid-1990s with two creator-owned series: The Copybook Tales (Slave Labor Graphics) and Siren (Image). A fill-in issue for DC’s Batman: Gotham Adventures led to an eventual four-year run on the title, followed by several issues of Justice League Adventures. After taking a two-year break from comics to stay at home with his young son, Tim recently returned to the drawing board to work on DC’s ScoobyDoo as well as a project for Wildstorm. Tim lives in Midland, Ontario with his wife, Shari, and their three-year-old son, James.

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the script

JL: There are a lot of notes on your copy of the script, especially on page two. You’ve got all those different

John Lowe: How many times do you typically read

ways of showing him pushing her in front of the subway

through a script?

station. One note indicates reference materials. You wrote, “1930s, The Untouchables, Gangs of New York” for

Tim Levins: At least twice. I usually read it through once to

visual reference, maybe fashion or clothes. You also jot-

get a general sense of the story. Then I go through it again and

ted quick visual sketches to determine how to frame

make notes. I consider different ways to approach certain pan-

some of the panels.

els. Especially in a script like this, because Scott Hampton intentionally left much of it open to interpretation. The DC

TL: Yeah, if something pops up in my mind as I’m going

scripts I’ve worked with usually have pretty tight, detailed de-

through it, I try to scribble it down so I can use it for reference

scriptions. It was a challenge doing this one, but it was fun.

later on when I’m doing a full-size drawing. On page two I really went back and forth trying to figure out the best way to

JL: What kinds of notes do you take? Visual notes? Ref-

show him pushing her in front of the subway. The things I usu-

erences you plan to look up?

ally draw on the script are either the important scenes—the

TL: It all kind of goes down together. I don’t have a strict way

shots that I think I’m really going to have to put some thought

of going about it. I write down whatever I’m thinking about

into—or things that might pop into my head, like a certain

when I’m going through it.

way of looking at something. I just jot it down, because more often than not I’ll just forget about my thoughts later on.

Tim reads through the script once to get a general sense of the story. He then goes through it a second time to sketch visual ideas and make notes about reference materials.

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references JL: Did you go back and view some of the things in your notes, like The Untouchables or Gangs of New York, or did you go to the library or Internet for references? TL: My main source of reference was the Internet. I’m very lazy, I know. But I also live in a fairly small town, and the library here is very limited, so the Internet comes in handy. I actually didn’t rent The Untouchables. I Googled the images online. I used a number of references for clothing, hairstyles and cars. I just glanced at most of the photographs to get the general feel or look of something. I didn’t actually use them as models. Actually, I was surprised at how difficult it was to find period clothing styles and hairstyles. I would type in “1940s women’s clothes,” for example, and I would often get referred to sites that didn’t have images. JL: Do you use the Google “images” search? TL: I search both Google “web” and “images.” If the person who posts an image hasn’t included the word “1940s” in the title of the image, it won’t show up in the “images” search. I usually start off with images, and this time I didn’t have a lot of luck. So I just started scanning websites and a McCall’s pattern site came up. The pictures were really small but, the thing is, I can probably fake a lot of this anyway. I had a vague idea of what people looked like back then but I just wanted something a little more specific. So it’s kind of ironic that in the final drawings you don’t actually see much of what the woman’s wearing. Her feet, head and shoulders are visible but that’s about it. JL: Do photographic references make you feel more comfortable with what you’re drawing, even if a lot of the information doesn’t make it to the page? TL: Yes. Visual references help me get into the frame of mind to draw the story. The angles I choose determine how much of Period details like car hardware, architecture, and women’s hairstyles

the information shows up in the final story.

help Tim get into the right frame of mind to draw the story.

JL: So sometimes you had to actually scour some websites just to come up with specifics?

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TL: Yeah. For example, I found plenty of reference for cars. Not as much for women’s hairstyles. One movie I looked at a lot was Harvey with James Stewart. It’s set in the late 40’s and it shows a bunch of regular-looking people wearing hats and driving cars. It’s just an average movie set in the 40’s. JL: Did you sketch while you were watching? TL: Yeah, I’d pause it every now and then and just quickly sketch something without much detail. JL: Did you reference anything for the interior of Paddy’s office? Now it’s time for the thumbnails—usually drawn on the front and back of the

TL: I just made most of it up, but I also have a book called Fa-

script itself.

mous American Homes. It’s full of historical interiors, and I use it fairly often when I need decor reference. Since this script doesn’t require much interior, I was comfortable making it up. JL: Let’s say this was an ongoing story or a mini-series, and his office was featured more often. How would you map that out for consistency, so you could go back into that space visually and know where things ought to go? TL: I usually do a very rough floor plan, and I put little markers where the characters are standing. In fact, there may be one scrawled somewhere on this script. I was trying to figure out where Paddy would stand in the window panel in reference to the other characters. I was looking for the best angle. Sometimes, in an ongoing story, I’ll draw a rough version of the part of the room that

Page layouts come next. Tim’s main concern is telling the story clearly. At this point, the figures are little more than mannequins.

appears most often. I don’t usually do complete, detailed lines of the room, although I can see the benefits of that. With a creatorowned series, I might have the time to put more detail in.

thumbnails JL: Once you’ve done the research, what’s next? TL: I do the thumbnail drawings, and usually they’re scattered all over the place. For the sake of this book, I tried to use one piece of paper. Whenever I had an idea that I wanted to put a bit more thought into, I jotted it on that paper. These are almost like the little tiny thumbnails I did on the actual script

Time to design the look of the characters. Though Tim already has a basic idea of how his characters will look, he uses this stage to work out the details.

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page layouts

pages; just fleshed out a little bit more. JL: They’re very easy to read, though. At this point, when

JL: Once you’ve made all of your thumbnails, do you

you go a little bit bigger, the storytelling’s there. You said

move on to character design?

you don’t usually do it on a single page like this. Do you typically work on scraps of typing paper?

TL: Strangely, no. I go to the page layouts. You can tell by looking at my layouts that I hadn’t done the character design.

TL: Yeah. The Gotham Adventures stuff that I’ve done is

They’re so simple and generic. I gave Paddy a bow tie in the

usually all over the scripts, on the backs of the pages, or on scrap

final version. I don’t think he has one in the layouts.

pieces of paper. Because the Paddy script was so short, I did all the thumbnails more or less at the same time. On the other hand,

At this point, I’m more concerned with telling the story effec-

with a full 22-page script, I’d on work on a few pages at a time.

tively than with knowing exactly what the characters will look like. I spend a lot of time thinking about storytelling. I often sit

JL: That’s a good point. You’ll complete a 22-page script

at my desk while I’m doing the thumbnails and rough layouts

in blocks of roughly four or five [layout] pages, right?

and just stare at the paper, trying to imagine how the action

TL: Yes. I generally focus on one scene at a time. Scenes tend

unfolds. I only move on to details once I get the story settled.

to be anywhere from two to five pages in length. But for this

I have a generalized idea of how I want characters to look, and

short script, I just went through the whole story and did all of

I use that rough image in my layouts.

those thumbnails at once.

JL: Because you’re concentrating on storytelling, you

JL: How long do you typically spend on the rough

keep the figures fairly generic—mannequins almost—so

thumbnails?

you can work on the shot that’s going to tell the story most effectively.

TL: Not very long. The drawing part takes me just a couple of minutes, but I spend a little longer planning the angles I want to

You kept your layouts to one sheet of paper for the pur-

use. One thumbnail drawing takes a total of five minutes, I guess.

poses of this book. Do you typically rough out your page layouts on individual sheets of typing paper?

JL: Okay. So if you were working on a monthly book like Batman, on a regular page with five to six panels, you’d

TL: Yes. Also, I usually don’t use rulers for this step. I used

spend no more than 45 minutes to an hour on thumbnails?

rulers for your sake so that the borders would be a little more defined. When I’m doing this for myself, I know what my lit-

TL: That’s right. Just to get an idea of what I want to do in

tle scribble drawings mean. I was just trying to keep my work

the final drawings.

neat so your readers could understand my process.

JL: In some of these thumbnails, you’ve changed the angle

JL: When you work on Batman Adventures, for example,

a little bit; moved the “camera” around. Sometimes you get

is it a bit looser than this?

it right the first time but sometimes you may use as many as three or four different thumbnails for a specific panel.

TL: Yeah, and maybe not quite this size. The layouts are bigger than the tiny little ones that I drew on the script, but maybe

TL: Yes; if you look at the script, the thumbnail page and the

75 percent of the size I drew here.

final version, you’ll see that the shot of him pushing her in front of the subway changed numerous times. Generally, if I’m not sure about something, if I can’t tell immediately in my head what I want it to look like, I’ll do two or three or four different angles to try to get a visual lock on what I want.

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Tim sketches three pages side-by-side in order to see how the story “flows.” Each thumbnailed page measures 5.25" x 7.75".

character design

I thought he looked too weasel-y, with the big pointy nose and narrow face. So then I tried the headshot on the right where

JL: After you’ve drawn the small page layouts, you can

he’s smoking a cigarette. I didn’t think I needed to redo the body

see the pages and panels sequentially so you know every-

shot, since I got the body more or less right the first time. For my

thing’s working. Do you begin work on the character de-

own benefit, it’s mainly the face that I want to get down.

signs next to get them more specific?

You can tell I drew the faces of the henchmen after I drew the rough

TL: Yes. I didn’t really go crazy with the character designs in this.

page layouts, because those faces are designed in positions that match

I’ve worked on a lot of gangster-type adventures over the years, so

the layout. When I went to draw the final page, I was actually

I had some stock characters in my mind. I usually do a quick, rough

going to redraw all the faces. I think I drew one and it wasn’t turn-

sketch—nothing as detailed or finished-looking as these.

ing out. This probably happens to artists all the time. We draw something on a napkin and then we try to recreate it. “My God,

I give more effort to my main characters. For example, I drew

the napkin’s so much better!” [Laughter.] And now, of course, we

the full-body shots of Paddy before I finalized what he was sup-

have scanners, so we can enlarge the napkin and trace it off.

posed to look like, and then I drew the young and old headshots

JL: Did you scan these in?

in the middle. That’s when I realized I didn’t really like his look.

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After working out the visual storytelling choices with thumbnail drawings, Tim designs the characters he will use in the story.

TL: No, I didn’t scan their heads and put them right onto the

drawing the page

page. I scanned them, made them the right size, and then used the lightbox to trace them into place.

JL: Once you’ve got your page layouts down, do you scan in those small storytelling thumbnails, blow them up on

JL: You had to sketch them in your blue pencil page in

the computer, and print them out?

order to position them correctly, right?

TL: No, I don’t. I think it’s because they’re so rough. I obvi-

TL: When I worked on the blue pencil page, I drew roughly

ously haven’t put a lot of effort into making sure that the an-

where their heads and shoulders should be.

gles are all right. It’s mainly to get an idea of where I want things to be. So no, I actually start with a blank page using the thumbnails as reference.

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JL: Do you have a template for yourself, so you can later blow it up in a photocopier? TL: No, although I’ve thought about doing that. Using a lightbox is one of my bad habits. JL: You have it on your desk like an animator. TL: Yes. And I find that process of drawing every page very time-consuming and annoying. It’s almost like I’m inking the page, but without the line thickness or variation. It’s like I’m drawing each page twice. It’s a habit I got into right when I started, and four years later I still haven’t really broken it. Tim draws the pages in Stadler non-repro blue pencil on oversized

When I send pages off to DC, I send maybe five or six at a time.

11" x 17" typing paper.

I draw them all first in that rough blue or even purple pencil stage, and then I have to go back and trace them all. I do six at a time, and it drives me nuts. Especially with a lightbox. It’s not great on the eyes. JL: Do you use a non-reproducible blue pencil? TL: Yeah, it’s something left over from my animation days, because that’s what you’re supposed to draw in at first. JL: Do you use the Col-erase? TL: No, I use Stadler. JL: Is it a non-repro blue? He goes over the light blue drawings with a darker blue or purple pencil.

TL: Yeah, it is. And actually, you might see purple on parts of it. I started using that because I couldn’t find any of the non-repro blue in the stores I usually went to. The label says something like nonrepro, but I found out that it actually wasn’t. I’m not quite sure what its purpose is, but I like it better than using a black pencil. JL: Yeah, it’s a nice way to clear up the drawing. There’s something about it that’s nicer visually than having black. It’s kind of the way Art Spiegelman worked when he was doing Maus. The way he would do his initial drawings was very curious. He worked with markers, and he would start out with the lightest color in his spectrum. He might start out with yellow, and then go to orange, red, blue and purple. It would get progressively darker as he built it up, and it looked interesting.

Next, he cleans up the drawings by retracing his work onto the board with his light table.

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Tim tries several variations on page three /panel three before choosing to show Paddy from outside the window. The windowpanes resemble the bars of a cell, implying that he’s trapped.

I recently discovered that I love working on typing paper

TL: Yeah, that’s something I just started using recently. When

in blue pencil. A friend of mine works on 24-pound paper,

I worked on Gotham Adventures I used regular photocopy

which has a lot more resistance. So I went out to the of-

paper. I imagine it must be 20 lbs, if that’s the standard. For

fice supply store and I found this premium LaserJet 32-

Paddy, I just used large art paper.

pound paper. A ream costs $14.99 instead of $4.00, but

JL: On page one, you’ve drawn everything roughly, using

you get 500 sheets of paper with a super-smooth plate

basic shapes. Is this how you tend to start out, focusing in

finish. And when you use a blue pencil, it just glides across

on the architecture and the cars?

the surface of the page. And it’s heavy enough that you can ink on it for practice. It’s great.

TL: Yes.

You use 11" x 17" oversized typing paper for your blue

JL: So when you block in your big, basic shapes, that’s

pencils too, right?

just for composition. Then, using your photo reference, you refine the drawings and compositions. Do you add

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your perspective points on the same page later?

ing hard on this page!” I guess that’s what happens when you’re tracing. I imagine if I always drew directly on the page instead

TL: I usually have a vague idea where I want the perspective

of using a lightbox, I probably wouldn’t be pressing as hard.

points to be. They’re very straightforward in that last panel, for example, which has a single-point perspective. I just draw it all

JL: You have a patch for panel three on the third page. I’m

roughly by hand and then put in the perspective points. And

guessing you started out with your blue pencil, went to the

sometimes I don’t get a point exactly where I want it to be, so I

purple for some of the figure work, and then used the me-

have to play around with it to make sure that it looks more or

chanical pencil for the perspective, clarifying it at the end.

less how I want.

TL: Right.

JL: Your drafting table is big, but it’s not huge, is it?

JL: Would you take this panel and lightbox it?

TL: No, it’s not. As much as I use the light table, it’s not big

TL: Yes.

enough. I also don’t have those little compartments that hang off the side. I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a bigger table. As a result, my area is usually a big mess, and I’m always

storytelling

searching for pencils. [Laughter.] JL: Do you ever run out of table space to place perspec-

JL: On page one you decided to shift the tunnel to the

tive points? Do you have to move the page over to one

left of where it is in the thumbnail. Now it opens

side and do one point at a time?

straight down.

TL: Often. Sometimes I have the paper taped on the one side of

TL: I’ve found over the years that when I trace with the light

the desk, and I draw a little tiny pencil mark or two on the desk.

table, I don’t always position things exactly where I want them

JL: When you work small, it’s very easy to put your per-

to be. That second panel ended up too far to the left for my taste.

spective points in at a manageable distance on your drawing

I wish it were over slightly to the right. If this were to go on to

table. It looks like you’ve already done that to some extent

an inker and then be published, it would be easy enough for me

on your smaller panels. For example, on page one, you re-

to just say, “Can you shift that over slightly, center it a bit bet-

ally made the buildings go around that curve in perspective.

ter?” Especially since the background is all black, the inker wouldn’t have much extra work to do.

What kind of instrument do you use for your final pencils? JL: I also liked it off to the right in the thumbnail, beTL: I use a mechanical drafting pencil for the final pages, be-

cause it implied that the car was going around a nice

cause its lead can get very fine.

curve in the tunnel.

JL: Like a 2h?

TL: I didn’t even think about the curve until the next panel.

TL: Yeah, it’s a 2H. When I started doing this, I found that

JL: You created this nice feel with the car. It creeps over

anything softer smudged all the time.

towards us like it’s coming around a curve, and then when

JL: Also, once you go much higher than a 2h, it’s like

we see the buildings in another shot, it’s feels like we’re

working with a chisel.

continuing around that circle. I like the asymmetry of it. In a way that most people won’t think about, your place-

TL: [Laughter.] Yeah, you’re making grooves. Although even

ment gives the car movement.

when I used a softer pencil, Terry Beatty, my inker on Gotham On the other hand, your final version with the straight

Adventures, used to say to me, “Wow, you really were press-

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In these five panels, Tim uses a cigarette to measure the amount of time Paddy waits for his victim to arrive. The cigarette also serves as a visual link, matching Paddy’s shoes with his character.

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shot leads us to that focal point of the photograph. So I

you show just the hands and the hat.

think you can make a case either way.

TL: Yes; as I mentioned before, I went over that panel many

TL: That’s just it. I’m not sold 100 percent either way.

times, trying to figure it out. It was originally going to be an obvious shot of him pushing her. And then I thought about doing

JL: I think some of the little touches you added in the last

a silhouette. At some point, this option just popped into my head.

panel are really nice. For example, the Empire State Building stands out because it’s the only skyscraper.

JL: It’s very effective—very subtle. The violence of it is

Everything else looks older.

implicit in the two actions: the very stiff arms and the hat floating off. I like it a lot. I like the shot because the com-

Did you actually reference the buildings, or have you

position is very active. I also like how you were able to

done so many for Gotham Adventures that you kind of

maintain the horizontal panels throughout the end, open-

make things up?

ing up that space in the subway station. It’s very crowded.

TL: I made up most of the buildings, although I obviously ref-

People move back and forth across the playing field.

erenced the Empire State Building in the background. Even

TL: This was a challenging page because of how it was writ-

when I looked at photographs, I didn’t necessarily say, “I’m

ten. He threw in that little part about time passing. I was just

going to reproduce this exactly.”

going to have her show up almost as soon as he got there. I can’t

JL: On page two you have a period car and “Roosevelt

tell whether panels two and three are a waste of time.

Wins” written across the newspaper. You’re not hitting

JL: No, no, they aren’t at all, because you notice how the

us over the head with the time period, but you do start

crowd changes. People are getting on and off the trains, so

noticing the hats and other details, so it’s really nice.

you’ve got that feeling he’s down there for a while.

TL: Yeah. It’s funny. I challenge myself to tell any story I draw

TL: That’s what I was going for. The diminishing size of the cig-

as though there were no written dialogue. This is my way of en-

arette is an example. I wanted to make it look like he had a vague

suring that my storytelling is as effective as possible. Obviously it’s

idea of when she was going to show up. He wouldn’t have just gone

hard to convey exactly what’s being said, but I can still depict the

there to stand all day. I wanted to build a sense of anticipation.

action and the mood of the conversation, especially with this story.

JL: Sure. Another approach might have been to show

I worked on this during a family vacation, and I showed it to

more cigarette butts by his feet. That would imply a

various members of my family who knew nothing about the plot.

whole different length of time. In this scene, you show a

My sister-in-law looked at it and said, “What’s with everybody

passage of roughly seven to ten minutes. Each additional

wearing hats? Today, people don’t wear hats.” Exactly!

cigarette would add a new element of history to the scene.

JL: Right. I liked that. And on the second page you use pat-

TL: It’s funny; the idea for the cigarettes just came to me in the

terns very effectively to make connections for the reader.

middle of the process. I don’t think he’s smoking a cigarette in the

TL: I did those little crisscross patterns on Paddy and the girl

page layout. He needed something to do to look inconspicuous while

to make it more obvious that they’re the ones to watch.

waiting. I think he was reading a newspaper. There’s a thumbnail somewhere where he throws the paper down when he sees her.

JL: You’re using design as a storytelling element. I really

It just didn’t seem to convey time’s passage well enough. And I

like the cigarette falling as her feet walk by him. A little

liked the idea of a cigarette falling better than the newspaper.

crisscross is all we see, then we cut up and we see him behind her. We know it’s her because of that pattern once

JL: Yeah, that looks nice. It also emphasizes the different

again. I like the choice you made on the last panel, where

era, because you can’t smoke in subways anymore.

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TL: Yes. That’s why I added a couple of other smokers in the

is he regretting his actions despite all the gains he’s made?

background.

JL: “Panel Six: Paddy sits behind the desk and contem-

JL: On page three, you draw a much older Paddy.

plates the snapshot.” I like that there’s a certain amount

You’ve given him some liver spots on his hands. Al-

of ambiguity. You don’t really know.

though he’s obviously aged, you link him to the younger

TL: Yes, exactly. And I was hoping the reader would decide.

Paddy with the cigarette. Is there any significance to the rings on his fingers?

JL: That’s where the rings really do come into play. We start connecting the two things even more: his success;

TL: It wasn’t spelled out in the script, but I imagined that this

her death. And we begin to wonder, exactly why does he

kill helped move him up through the ranks. I liked the paral-

still have this photograph?

lel between the young Paddy holding the picture on the first page and the old Paddy holding it on the last page. For me, the

TL: Exactly. It’s kind of an odd thing. You hear of criminals

rings imply that he’s made a success of himself in his world of

keeping things as trophies. Personally, judging by the way the

crime, in part by following the orders to kill this woman. The

story is presented, I think he has regrets on some level. Other-

rings demonstrate that he’s somebody of distinction now.

wise, the picture might be framed up on his wall.

JL: And he’s surrounded by young thugs.

Another possibility I considered was a down shot in which he would be pretty small, sitting at his desk, at such an angle that

TL: Yeah. My design for all these characters was very simple,

you can’t really see his facial expression. I was thinking of set-

but I tried to make the ones in the present look more contem-

ting the photograph on his desk and having him sit there and

porary. For example, the guy in the middle has a ponytail.

look at it. That shot might fit better with the contemplation

JL: Right. And you’ve got a guy with a goatee. There are

that’s mentioned in the script.

some physical similarities between him and the guy on

But the way I’ve drawn it, I guess you assume he’s contem-

the first page, so it’s good that you show the difference

plating. You don’t actually see his face.

between then and now. The hairstyle, the lack of hats, and the goatee make a nice contrast. And you even have

JL: I think it’s very effective. I like the idea of leaving

a cell phone in panel three.

something open-ended for the viewer.

TL: Yes, that was an easy way of saying, “Look! We’re in the present!”

advice

JL: The last panel creates a nice contrast with the past, and not just by adding the rings and liver spots. We can

JL: Based on your experience, do you have any advice for

also see that the photograph is starting to deteriorate

young cartoonists?

over time. TL: This sounds like an obvious answer, but practice and perTL: I wrestled with the ending of the story because his thoughts

severance are really important. The more you draw, the more

are not described clearly in the script. I could have gone to one ex-

your skills will improve. Work hard to develop your storytelling

treme in the last panel and showed his face with a tear coming

abilities; lots of artists can draw pretty pictures, but surpris-

down his cheek, clearly thinking, “I regret what I did all those

ingly few can use those pictures to tell a story effectively. Send

years ago.” At the same time I just wanted keep it vague. I wanted

your work to editors, meet them at conventions, and keep try-

to leave it up to the reader. Is he hanging on to this photograph as

ing—if your work is good, it'll eventually get noticed.

a trophy, thinking, “This is what made me who I am today,” or

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Tim Levins’ Paddy

Inks by John Lowe

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Fight Night:Working Methods

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fight night Script by scott hampton Artists jim mahfood pat quinn sean murphy

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Script: Fight Night

page 1 Panel 1: Opening shot. Night. Giant futuristic building lit by spotlights and searchlights, surrounded by cops on the ground and in the air. Smoke and flames pour from part of the building. Cop from a helicopter: You’re surrounded! Throw down your weapons! Do it now! Panel 2: Interior building. Two super team members in cool battle garb. The male is Lewis. He’s the nervous type. Tara (short for Tarantula) is dark and beautiful. Born leader. The place is a mess—one hell of a fight has recently taken place here. Dead alien-looking creatures lie here and there. Cop (off-panel): This is your last chance! Lewis (still holding a smoking gun): Oh great! Now what do we do? 2: Those cops think this was our fault! Tara (Grabbing a large gun out of the rubble): No time to worry about it now. Come on, Lewis. Panel 3: Running down a hallway. Wreckage everywhere. Lewis: Where are we going? And where’s Toy? Tara: Last time I saw her, she was wrestling with that crocodile thing.

page 2 Panel 1: They enter another large wreck of a room, an aircraft hanger. Lots of planes including one incredibly big, cool one. Also, a lot of places where cops could spring out at them. Lewis: Holy Moley! Did you know these were here?! Tara: Of course. You would, too, if you ever took the time to glance at the blueprints before an operation. 2: Come on, let’s hot-wire this baby and get the hell out of here. Cop (off-panel): There they are! Get ‘em!

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Panel 2: Cops open up with machine gunfire that hits the planes and spangs off our heroes’ armor. Tara: No! Not the fuel tank, you idiots! Lewis: Tara, come on! This way! Panel 3: They jump through an opening or hatch just as an explosion rips the planes up behind them. Panel 4: They are now among air-conditioning ducts and rusty, nasty-looking pipes. Lewis leads the way and is turning a corner. Tara: Well, there’s another twenty million bucks the tax payers can kiss off. Lewis (whispers): Oh no. Panel 5: Tara reaches Lewis. They are facing a large round window, overlooking the city from high up. Lewis: We’re screwed.

page 3 Panel 1: They turn to fight the cops. Cop (off-panel): They went this way! Tara: We’re going to have to fight. Try not to kill too many of them. Lewis (Pulling a mean looking gun out): Oh, man. Panel 2: The cops open up on them. Lewis and Tara aim low, shooting them in the legs. Cop: There they are! Get ‘em!! SFX: Blam! Blam! Kpang! Lewis: Stop it, you morons! We don’t want to hurt you! Panel 3: They turn their heads toward a voice outside the big window as the bullets continue to sping and spang. Voice (off-panel): Hey, you with the glasses! Panel 4: A plane is hovering outside. We see that another team member is piloting it. Lewis and Tara: Toy! Panel 5: They crash through the window… Panel 6: And land inside the plane through an opening in the top. Toy: Say bye-bye! Panel 7: The plane zooms off as the police continue to fire away, spraying bullets all over the city.

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Jim Mahfood

Jim Mahfood (a.k.a. Food One) makes comic books, draws flyers, designs album covers, and rocks live art in various clubs and bars around the country. Born in St. Louis, Missouri, he studied at the Kansas City Art Institute, where he founded 40 Oz. Comics with artist Mike Huddleston. Mahfood went on to illustrate Kevin Smith's Clerks comics and launch a number of creator-owned indy releases, such as Grrl Scouts, One Page Filler Man, Felt, and Stupid Comics. Mahfood’s mainstream work includes a collaboration with Brian Michael Bendis on Ultimate Marvel Team-Up #9, two issues of Peter Parker: Spider-Man, a short story in Bart Simpson's Treehouse of Horror #6, and Grendel: Red, White, and Black, among other titles. The artist now lives Los Angeles, where he’s branching out into music videos and animation. He shares his work and news on his website, www.40ozcomics.com.

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the script

thumbnails

John Lowe: When you get a script, how many times do

JL: You’ve sketched every page right here on the script in

you look it over?

ballpoint pen. You’ve made your frame. You’ve decided the number and size of the panels you’re going to use, as

Jim Mahfood: Two or three times.

well as the basic layout you’ll stick with all the way

JL: Do images pop up in your mind while you’re reading?

through the pencils.

JM: Absolutely. The whole scenario—the whole visual look—

Another artist might work very differently. Some will

starts to come together in my mind. By the second or third read,

complete numerous sketches and thumbnails to work out

I’ll be like, “Hmm, that panel has some cool stuff going on

the best way to illustrate a single panel. In contrast, you

there. I can draw it from this angle or do it this way.”

seem to edit in your mind.

JL: It sounds like you have the whole page layout

JM: Yeah. I have the bad habit of making one-shot decisions.

roughed out in your head before you even sit down to do

If my first try works, I just stay with it.

the first rough thumbnail.

JL: It looks good; very solid. You put just enough information down to give yourself a pretty good idea of what’s

JM: Yes.

going on. You work with very rough basic shapes but the

Jim typically reviews a script two or three times to get a good sense of the visuals. Then he draws his thumbnails directly on the script.

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Jim draws his initial character designs directly in ink using a Pilot Precise marker. He uses a Sharpie to fill in the large black areas.

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sketches are legible. JM: Yeah. I did the thumbnails on the script in pen. That first step is key. JL: It’s the most important phase because it helps you pick out any problems right away. JM: That’s right.

character design JM: After completing the drawings on the script, I sat down and started the character sketches. I wanted to get an idea of the shapes involved: the costumes, masks, and body types of the characters. I knew immediately that I wanted the guy to be big and muscular, and the girl to look sexy, Batgirl-style. JL: Did you draw those in pen also? JM: Yeah, most of them are straight pen drawings. I really like to work that way. Even in my sketchbook, I do everything in pen. When I was in art school, I got the Bill Sienkiewicz sketchbook. He had this great quote in there; something like, “I usually force myself to always draw in pen, because when I make a mistake, the drawing just laughs at me. There’s no going back, no cheating, editing, or erasing. I have to turn the page and start from scratch again.” Pen is the most blatant way of forcing myself to see things correctly. JL: Not only to see, but also to put things down correctly, with the right placement and proportional relationships, right? JM: Right.

tools His final character designs emerge.

JL: What pen did you use for the sketches? It looks like it might be one of those Penstix. JM: It’s a black Pilot Precise rolling ball pen, the kind you can get at Office Max. I dig those, and I also have the Alvin Penstix.

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JL: You’ll alternate between the Pilot and the Penstix

format

to sketch, and then probably use Sharpies to fill in blacks, right?

JL: You work at a reduced size. What is the area of your board?

JM: Yeah, I use Sharpies on the fill-ins.

JM: I scaled down my original art on the new Grrl Scouts se-

JL: So you work out your characters and you decide

ries. The actual board is 9" x 14", and then I put an inch of

which costumes you’re going to go with. Do you work

space at the top, an inch of at the bottom, and a half-inch on

out the blue pencils on 8.5" x 11" typing paper next?

both sides.

JM: Yes.

JL: Okay, so that means it’s 8" x 12"?

JL: Do you have a template for your layout paper, or do

JM: Right. I really like that format now. I did the whole Grrl

you rule it out as you go?

Scouts mini-series that way. I’m doing most of my Stupid

JM: I rule it out.

Comics for Image that way now. The thing is, if I went back to do a gig for Marvel or DC with a writer who did eight to

JL: I read an interesting article about this subject in

ten panels a page, I might have to go back to 11" x 17" paper.

Draw! Magazine. A lot of kids are now buying that BlueLine paper, which I generally find inferior.

JL: How did you come up with this size?

JM: Right. Some guy at a convention gave me a sample pack

JM: My friend Scott Morse works with it, and he’s all about

of that stuff. There was a certain type that was really good. It

efficiency and productivity. This is a guy who can do an entire

held the ink really well. But some of the other stuff is just crap.

comic book in a week and a half. His originals are this size, or

I buy my own Strathmore and cut my own boards.

even smaller. Sometimes they’re 8.5" x 11".

JL: I think that’s the way to go. And you’re right about the paper. They finally put out one line called Premium Paper

blue pencils

that’s good. The problem is, they charge kids $2–$2.50 for that paper.

JL: How much time do you usually spend on your blue This guy in Draw! was saying that instead of just buying

pencils?

Bristol, which is a better paper, the kids are buying BlueLine Pro. They buy it for the ruled guidelines, which

JM: I try to hammer those out pretty quick. I think I did all

make it very easy to sit down and do a page. This guy sug-

three pages of this story in a matter of hours. I just start scrib-

gested cutting out the live area of that BlueLine Pro

bling with that blue pencil, making shapes and figuring out

paper with a straight razor and a ruler. You end up with a

the layout. When I think I’m close to something, I move on to

template that you can slap down over another piece of

the next board. Once I have all my blues down, I go in with

real Bristol. Just tape it down and you’ve got your guide-

that No. 2 pencil and I start penciling.

lines there automatically, without ruling them out.

JL: That brings up a good question. This is a short story.

You can also make your own template by marking and

If it were a 22-page Marvel book with a full script, would

cutting your windows in a piece of Bristol. If you hang

you thumbnail and blue-pencil the entire issue before

onto that, you’ll never have to rule a page out again.

you started inking? Or would you do it chunks of pages at a time?

JM: Oh, that’s a good idea! I’ve never thought of that. JM: I’d do chunks of pages. When I worked with [Axel Alonso,

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After the thumbnails, Jim uses a blue pencil to draw the pages on 8" x 12" bond paper with ruled guidelines. At this point in the process, Jim is still focused on basic composition.

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Editor], he was really good about forcing me to do six to eight pages at a time. I would do a blue pencil layout and add some penciling in there. They were pretty tight layouts. I would fax those to him, we’d talk about them, and he’d give me many, many minor corrections. Then he’d say, “Go ahead and completely finish penciling these tights and ink them. I don’t need to see finished pencils. I know what your work looks like. Now you’re set for the next week to completely finish these pages.” I would send him inks of the jpegs, and I don’t think he had me correct anything once we got to inks. JL: That’s because all the corrections were made in the layout stage, right? JM: Right.

pencils Jim takes his blue pencil layouts to the lightbox and transfers them to Bristol board using an American Standard no. 2 pencil.

JL: When you draw your final pencils, you use a 2b mechanical pencil. Do you work at a light table with your blue pencils as a guide underneath? JM: Yes. I do the whole light table thing and try to do some clean, simple, line-y penciling. JL: The interesting thing is, even though your pencils are tightened up considerably from the blue pencils, they’re still organic and somewhat unfinished. So you can still have some fun in the inking stage as well.

inking JM: I always have a lot of room to add, delete and mess around in the ink stage. That’s where I’m most confident. I think I have my inking pretty much down, so a lot happens in the inking stage that you won’t see in breakdowns or penciling. JL: I imagine some of that confidence came from your years of sketching in pen, didn’t it? He uses Pilot Precise V5 and V7 pens during the initial inking stage. The x’s indicate areas that will later be filled with black.

JM: Yeah, it gave me a lot of confidence.

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JL: It looks like you use Pilot Precise pens, v7 and v5,

JM: Right.

to ink.

JL: In the final step you use a black Sumi ink brush pen,

JM: Yes.

which I’m assuming is one of those synthetic-haired brushes with a cartridge?

JL: You do all of your linework and even finish up some of your drawing in the inking stage, don’t you?

JM: Yup!

JM: Yes, all the linework. It’s almost like a coloring book. I do

JL: And then a Rapidograph no. 4. What do you use

all my linework and “x” in all the black, using Q-Tips to fill

that for?

in the largest areas. I really see the page start pulling together

JM: Sometimes when I do my Q-Tip phase, I don’t go to the

at that point. That’s an important stage, because I begin to see

edges of all the tiny black areas. My Rapidograph and Sumi

where the whole graphic sensibility comes from.

brush, all permanent ink, are more precise. They fill in the

JL: That way, you can also see if you need to balance the

little cracks and crevices and make everything super-tight. I

contrast.

complete the black phase by filling in all those areas and adding little details on, like guns or highlights. I just make everything tight. JL: I want to ask you about page one, panel two, where the guy and the girl are in the room with all the dead aliens. In the foreground, you’ve really thickened up the lines for the heads of these aliens. Did you build those up with your Pilot Precise pen? JM: Yeah. I went back and added line weights, mostly with the pens—the Pilot pen, and sometimes with Rapidograph. I really just have a bunch of pens in my desk and I’m just grabbing them and adding line weights where I think they’re necessary.

Jim uses Q-Tips to quickly fill in large areas with black India ink.

He fills in the remaining small black areas with a variety of pens, including a black Pentel Sumi ink brush, a Rapidograph no. 4 (1.20) and the Pilot Precise v5 and v7.

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The final pages rest on Jim’s drawing table in his studio. The plastic tray attached to the left side of the table allows Jim to keep all of his drawing and inking tools within arm’s reach.

JL: You do the letters before you put the balloons around

lettering

them, right? JL: You have an interesting lettering style. After you put

JM: Yes. I do lettering, and then I edit the balloon to make it

your word balloons in, you rough in the placement in the

fit around that letter.

pencil stage. Then, I guess, you do the lettering. Do you

JL: Your lettering is very unique, yet it’s still very legible.

do your lettering before you ink the figures?

Has your penmanship always been good?

JM: My lettering style is so half-assed. Most people are shocked when they hear how I do it. Sean Konot laughs at me, but he

JM: No, that’s something I had to work at. Back in art school,

loves my lettering work. When I’m in penciling mode, I rough

when I was lettering my own comics, Evan Dorkin was like,

in the balloon based on how much space I think I’ll need. Then

“Your lettering sucks. You need to work on that. It’s inconsis-

I do the lettering in the pen-drawing stage. I don’t pencil out

tent.” It’s a process that evolved over the years. And with this

the words. I just write straight in pen.

latest Grrl Scouts series for Image, I really worked hard to make the lettering part of the art. The lettering and the bal-

JL: Are you serious?

loons are as important as the drawing in the panel. I want them to be integral to the design of the page. That’s something I

JM: I don’t rule it out; I just use my eye.

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learned from Scott Morse: Everything we put down on the page

JM: Yeah, that’s what it was. I would draw compulsively in

is part of the design.

my sketchbook to improve. I worked constantly. Also, I was around Mike, who’s like the most disciplined guy I’ve ever met.

JL: Right, every element is equally important.

He would spend hours and days without leaving his table. He’d

JM: So now I’m really trying to approach every aspect of my

work like crazy.

comics as a designer. The panel, the word balloon, the letter-

JL: This is something I like to bring up to students who

ing—everything.

give excuses about why they’re not done. Even when you

JL: When Evan Dorkin criticized your lettering and you

were in school, you must have been putting in at least five

had to make a conscious attempt to improve it, what did

or six hours a day at the table, right?

you do? Did you look for books on the subject? Did you

JM: Oh, yeah. I would always go to class and take care of my

sit down and do some kind of daily practice?

school assignments first. When the school assignments were

JM: I would just write in my sketchbooks. I would write down

done, that was when I would really start to have fun. I would

ideas. I would play around, lettering words and sound effects

start doing my own comics at midnight. That stuff was just for

in my style. It’s a thing that evolves over time. My lettering

me; I wasn’t even getting credit for in school or making money

two or three years ago wasn’t as strong as it is now. I just

off of my little mini-comics.

learned it with time and effort.

mini-comics style JM: I was lucky because I was hanging out with a network of JL: How did your artistic style evolve?

cool young artists in Kansas City. Some of them were in school with me. Some of them weren’t. But we were all actively put-

JM: I learned how to ink first. I was inking comics when I was

ting out ‘zines and mini-comics. And that whole world just re-

in high school for a local publisher in St. Louis. I learned the

ally appealed to me. I had always dreamed of working for

tools of inking, brush, pens, and all that stuff. At The Kansas

Marvel or DC, making money. And then it dawned on me that

City Art Institute, I used to ink Mike Huddleston’s work. He

I could put out product and not have a publisher make money

was my roommate. We were trying to get work as a team back

off of it. You can at least see your work in the stores, in coffee

then, and we went through many years of rejection. By junior

houses around town.

year, I started drawing my own work and publishing my own mini-comics. I wasn’t even concerned about getting work as a

We would do our own ‘zines and mini-comics, drive them

mainstream inker anymore.

around in our car, drop them off at hip-hop shops, record stores, comic shops, coffee houses, and sell everything on consignment.

And at that time I was really, really looking at Jamie Hewlett on

My little mini-comics were a buck each, and they actually

Tank Girl, and Vaughn Bode’s Cheech Wizard, and I’ve always

started to sell. And that’s when it dawned on me: “Wow, peo-

been into hip-hop and graffiti. I was looking at all these really

ple I don’t know are actually paying money for my work!” So

graphic, really unique styles of drawing. So it was just an evolu-

that was a sign that maybe I was on the right track.

tion type thing, and it’s still evolving. If you saw my work in ‘97, you’d see traces of what I do now, but it’s a much cruder thing.

JL: What kind of numbers were you putting out?

JL: So you started doing mini-comics for yourself, just

JM: We would do 300–500 print runs. The cool thing was that

by trusting yourself and having fun drawing?

I knew a lot of print makers at school, and we had an offset press.

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We would fold, staple, and box the books ourselves. It was really

were huge words of encouragement for me.

hands-on. It was like, “Let’s have a party and get drunk and lis-

I was getting rejection letters all the time from Dark Horse, Mar-

ten to music and put together our books.”

vel, etc. Dan Vado at Slave Labor actually wanted to publish my

I would ship copies to my buddies back home in St. Louis, and

work back in ‘95 or something, but at the time I just wasn’t ready.

they would get them in the stores for me there. We got them

I just wanted to write and draw my comics as I went along and

into stores in Chicago through friends we knew. So it became

he was like, “No, dude. I need to see a full script for issue one. I

this Midwest thing, and we tried to build from there.

need to see a story, a breakdown of the four-issue mini-series.” At the time I was just drawing five and six-page stories and I would

JL: How often would you put out these minis?

just write and draw as I went along.

JM: I only did four or five 24-page books for myself. But at

JL: Well, I actually think that’s a really good thing to do

the same time, I was also doing four and five-page short stories

at that age. You probably got more out of that than if you

for ‘zines and magazines in town.

were trying to sculpt an epic story.

JL: Did this also lead to some local illustration gigs or

JM: Well, yeah. I had no idea how to develop a big project or a

anything like that? Did it lead to any other kind of work?

mini-series. I wasn’t a writer at the time. I’m still not a great

JM: Yeah, Mike and I finally started getting a couple of pay-

writer, but I’m working on it. It’s an evolutionary process.

ing gigs around town. We did a four-page, full-color comic strip for Kansas City Magazine, making fun of the local media or whatever. To us, that was a huge deal. We actually each got

working as a freelancer

paid $300–400 for our work, and it was only four or five pages. And we saw our work in print. I started to get spot il-

JL: Currently, you go back and forth between your per-

lustrations in the local paper here and there. Small things, but

sonal projects and your work for mainstream companies.

at the time they were huge to me because I was finally getting JM: That’s the thing I like about where I am right now. I can

work on my own.

do six months on a four-issue mini-series of my own stuff for JL: Did you get much feedback from your mini-comics?

Image, like Grrl Scouts, then I can go back and do a one or

JM: I did send them out to all the small publishers, and then

two-issue freelance gig for Marvel or DC. I do my freelance il-

to artists. Evan Dorkin was one of the first guys who ever wrote

lustration work, and I do conventions where I sell my art.

back to me. He wrote me back everytime I sent him one of my

JL: You’re like an independent film actor who gets to

comics. He would give me three to four-page full-on critiques.

choose his roles.

He would write things like, “Okay, your panel borders need to be thicker. Your lettering sucks—you need to improve on that.

JM: Yeah, I like being freelance. I could never do a monthly

This looks good, this looks good.” I hadn’t actually met him at

book, so I’m not the type of guy who would sign a one-year gig

that point, but he would tell me things like, “The work you’re

with Marvel or DC.

sending me is 90 percent better than any of the stuff I’m see-

JL: With something like Grrl Scouts at Image, you pay

ing in the underground scene right now. You’re doing good but

them for advertising and distribution, and then you get

here’s what you need to change.” Dan Clowes sent me a post-

the royalties back on that?

card one time saying, “Hey, your stuff’s good. I’ve been getting it. Thanks! Keep at it. Hopefully the comics industry doesn’t

JM: Right, no money up front at all.

crumble next year. You should be able to get work.” So those

JL: So is that one of the reasons the conventions come into

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jim mahfood

play: in order to make it financially? Or do you have a big

JM: Oh yeah, it’s all them. I think it’s a really simple, straight-

enough fan base that you sell a significant number of copies

forward deal. A lot of people warned me to be careful when I got

on the stands?

into it with them. But they send me the paperwork and numbers and everything, and I think I’m doing fine.

JM: I’m making good money off the individual issues through

JL: That’s great!

Image. But you need to have money to survive on when you do something with Image because those checks don’t come for two months after the book is out. JL: So that’s like, five months after you’ve finished it.

advice

JM: The orders have been really strong with all my stuff

JL: Do you have advice for anyone considering putting

through Image, so I am making good money per issue. And

out their own book?

then there’s the money on the trade. There’s all this other stuff going on. But that’s the deal with Image going into it: You’ve

JM: I would suggest sticking with black-and-white. That’s

got to have money to survive off of.

what I’m doing with all my work. I don’t know who these kids are who try to do a full-color mini-series through Image. You’d

JL: So you’d either need to work a day job and do comics

have to sell over ten thousand copies of an individual issue to

at night out of love, or do what you’re doing: take some

break even! In black-and-white, you’ve got to sell over three

mainstream work and then live off that money while you

[thousand]. Do the math! I have a pretty hardcore following of

make what you want to make.

people that buy anything I do, and I still can’t break the ten

JM: Exactly.

thousand mark on a black-and-white book.

JL: With the Image deal, what were your numbers for

JL: Right. Your numbers aren’t going to be pushed up

Grrl Scouts?

significantly, if at all, if you do color. And it won’t matter for your fan base.

JM: They were really good. With No. 1 they were about 8,500. Then it went down. Two, three and four were in the

JM: I plan to do a color book in a year or so just for fun, as a

7,000’s.

48-page one-shot. But until then, I’m set on trying to make money off of each individual book. The trade and everything

JL: That’s still very good, though.

comes later.

JM: My very first book through them, Stupid Comics, was

JL: Absolutely. I love black-and-white work. Often, color

shocking. It was, like, 9,500 copies. We just solicited for the sec-

can be a crutch for bad work. With black-and-white, the

ond one, and I’m hoping that the orders on that are really

design of the page and the linework are almost displayed

strong. Grrl Scouts no. 1 through Image completely sold out.

“in the buff,” so to speak.

So I got a royalty on No. 1, and I have several trade collections coming out through Image this year, so I’m making money off

JM: I would also advise artists to learn the rules of storytelling,

all of that.

anatomy, perspective, pacing, timing, mood, lighting, tension, and balance. And then learn when to break those rules.

JL: And it seems like Image really has the system ironed out now. It’s an upfront business proposition. They’re producing some interesting stuff, and you don’t have to worry about the distribution or advertising, right?

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Jim Mahfood’s Fight Night

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Pat Quinn

Baptized on the day of the Lunar Landing, Pat Quinn spent his first few years in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, before spening the bulk of his formative years in the suburbs outside of Washington, D.C. Pat always had comics, particularly super-hero comics, around his entire life. During his college years, he majored in Art Education, always assuming that he would do comics professionally. It wasn't until after he graduated in 1993, when he discovered that he needed to start training seriously to make a career in comics a reality. After several years, a few thousand submissions and dozens of conventions, Pat started to get smaller press work. His first sequential pages appeared in Claypool Comic's SoulSearchers and Company. In 1999, Pat decided to increase his training further, as well as broaden his options, by enrolling in the Sequential Art M.F.A. program at the Savannah College of Art and Design. It was during his stay in Savannah that Pat started to get work from larger publishers such as Wildstorm, Idea, and Design Works. Pat relocated to Atlanta, Georgia in 2003 and has been with the Savannah College of Art and Design's Atlanta Campus since 2005. He currently leads a double existance professionally as the Academic Director of Communication Arts for SCAD-Atlanta by day and a freelance comics artist by night. His wife Pilar and daughter Alison help him maintain his sanity.

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Pat fills the script with visual ideas for panel compositions and character designs.

the script

My first set of thumbnails is usually a knee-jerk reaction that I put on paper. Then I mix up the composition and try differ-

John Lowe: What’s the first thing you do after reading

ent camera placement. Sometimes I might find that a differ-

the script?

ently sized or oriented panel might work better, which means I have to rethink my overall layout.

Pat Quinn: I read it at least twice. The first time, I read to assess the pace—which for me is the page layout. I do a little

With this script, I went with a “cinematic” or “widescreen”

thumbnail of the layout on the bottom left of a script page. I

layout, which is very trendy right now. That format limits

draw empty panels, just to see how the pace and panel size will

me to using horizontal or square panels—nothing vertically

work. The second time I read the script, I go back to the indi-

oriented.

vidual panel descriptions and sketch thumbnails.

JL: Since this script doesn’t have established characters,

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how did you decide what they would look like?

PQ: Well, there’s a big fight scene on page two. They conveniently find an open hatch or vent to dive through, which

PQ: That came later. At this stage, I’m just focused on the

I thought was a pretty stupid idea. So I decided to have the

story—what the characters are trying to do.

male character blast a hole through the floor, and that’s how

JL: You’re perfecting your shots?

they can escape. Once I had that idea, it seemed kind of funny to me to have him squat and shoot through the floor.

PQ: Yeah. I just see some of them in my head, while others

[Laughter.]

make me think of several variations I want to try out.

JL: All right, let’s not even get into the scatological ref-

JL: So the notes on your script are all about ideas for

erences. [Pat laughs.] These are probably not characters

panels?

you would design for a book you wanted to sell to Image

PQ: Yeah.

or a mainstream publisher. PQ: No. I didn’t really knock myself out on character designs for this particular story. But since the script felt deliberately

character design

clichéd, I thought some wacky characters might bring something different to the table.

JL: This script asks you to invent some characters. After looking at your pages, I get the sense that you made a

JL: You gave yourself some latitude with the visuals of

game of the character design. You took it a little bit over-

the story.

the-top and had fun with it.

PQ: Well, the script calls the male character “Lewis” and

PQ: I did have fun. The script and characters seemed to be in-

the female “Tara, short for Tarantula.” The girl has the

tentionally clichéd, so I thought I could go for laughs and still

code-name, which tells me she must be cooler than the guy. So

stay true to the script.

I made his overall look and design as goofy as his name. Also, since the female’s name was “Tarantula,” I figured the in-

JL: Is it a challenge to have to create new characters for

tention must be for her to have some spidery attributes. And

a three-page script?

then the question became: What haven’t we seen in comics

PQ: A little, but I suppose it’s always a big challenge in super-

with spidery figures? That created different story opportu-

hero/action stories. We’ve seen the same scene so often that the

nities for me.

different possible takes on it pique our interest. Let’s be honest:

JL: Once you get that, you go back. In the course of your

Part of the joy in comics is finding new solutions to the same old

process, you work out the story first, right?

problems. PQ: I hope that I’ve established a decent page layout, that I’m Another aspect of the script that threw me off a little was the

beginning to get the shots that I want, and that the layout and

beginning. We come in on the action, rather than building up

story are becoming more interdependent now. I’m also con-

to it the way we would with a standard beginning. That’s not

cerned with the role the individual compositions play in the

a bad way of engaging the audience, but it did throw off my

storytelling.

sense of the story’s direction. I thought, “How the hell do I get to where I want to be?” I started playing around with the character designs, and that loosened up my brain for approaching the story. JL: How did the script influence your character designs?

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Pat draws several potential character designs on the backs of old e-mails before settling on his final characters.

thumbnails

cific accommodations—the same way you would if you were trying to work Batman’s cape into a shot, or make space for a big figure like the Hulk.

JL: You did your thumbnails before you did the character designs, right?

JL: So you’re just working out the story with very generic

PQ: Right. If I don’t have a character design in mind by the

shapes. And then you go back and adjust accordingly once

layout phase, I can just drop stick figures into the compositions

you have your characters.

and see where things are going. Since these designs came about

PQ: Yeah. This stage is like setting up the cinematography and

while I was working on the thumbnails, I did make some spe-

choreography. Once I have all my visual notes and panel doo-

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dles on the script, I start putting them together in the final thumbnail package. JL: When you rough out your little notations on the script, is that basically the first draft of your thumbnails? PQ: Yes. But again, I use empty panels. The point is to look at the panel shapes all together, so I can choose which one should be the biggest and that sort of thing. JL: You’ll choose the scenes that need more room and give them the larger panel shapes. You’ve been doing this long enough that it may only take one or two versions. PQ: Right. By the time I get ready to put it together, I’ve already decided which panel is going to work the best for each shot, keeping in mind the page and the story as a whole. Sometimes I realize that a certain shot or composition isn’t working. When that happens, I use the original thumbnail as a place-holder and make a mental note to change it for the final. Of course, sometimes even at the final stage I may not feel like I’ve found the right solution, but I know I have to cut the cord and put the pages in the mail. That may be the wrong approach to some, but think about what we mentioned earlier. We’ve all seen this sort of scene a thousand times before, and chances are I’ll see it again at some point in my career. The scene will hopefully turn out better the next time I get a chance to draw it. JL: Okay. The next step in the process is drawing with a pencil. What pencil do you use to do the under-drawing on your thumbnail? PQ: I do all the notes on the script, and then the finished thumbnails, with a No. 2—just a regular pencil. But generally speaking, I’ll use whatever is handy, even ballpoint pens. JL: When you draw your thumbnails, you draw the borders first, right? After that, you use a 2h. What do you use to finish them?

Pat roughs out his thumbnails in pencil, then “inks” them with a Zig Millennium marker in order to scan or enlarge them easily.

PQ: A Zig Writer Millennium. JL: How long do you spend on the 2h stage of a thumbnail?

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The final thumbnails are very simple and readable.

PQ: Not long. I try to do it as quickly as possible.

where I’m filling in and picking up pages here and there, I may shift to a page-at-a-time approach.

JL: Do you average thirty or forty minutes?

On Cryptopia I would do the whole thing, because there’s no

PQ: Yeah.

set deadline.

JL: When you go over it in marker, is that another ten or

JL: What about Green Lantern?

fifteen minutes?

PQ: I think I did all the thumbnails first, because I had to send

PQ: Sure, approximately.

them in.

JL: So for this part of the layout, maybe a total of

JL: Layout probably isn’t taking you so long at this stage

45 minutes?

in your career, is it?

PQ: Maybe.

PQ: Actually, it’s probably the longest stage since it’s the most

JL: When you’re working on a regular 22-page story, do

important to me. That’s where I’m doing the math and solv-

you thumbnail out a page a day and complete it, or do

ing the problem. Everything after that should be on autopilot

you try to thumbnail out at least ten pages at once so you

to a certain degree.

can see how the story is progressing?

JL: So from reading the script to completing the thumb-

PQ: I prefer to lay the whole thing out first, so I can see the

nails, you’re talking about maybe about an hour-and-a-

whole story, check the pacing, staging and choreography. I need

half per page?

to make sure Character A is always on the left side of a partic-

PQ: At the extreme. Hopefully I’m faster, depending on my

ular scene or whatever. However, sometimes that’s not the most

deadline.

practical approach. If the deadline is very close, or if it’s a job

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going to the board JL: Once the thumbnails are done, you enlarge them on the photocopier, right? PQ: To save a little cash, I used to scan the pages and blow them up to 8.5" x 11" using the scanner and printer, then take the enlarged versions of the thumbnails over to the copy place and blow them up to 11" x 17". Now I have a 13" x 19" printer at home and I do this all inhouse. This method helps a lot when doing a “tight” or “enAfter enlarging the thumbnails, Pat transfers the page layout to an

hanced” pencil gig, where the publisher doesn’t hire an inker.

11" x 17" piece of two-ply Bristol board using a blue pencil and a lightbox.

They just scan the pencils, which means the pencils have to be very tight. Stray marks from under-drawings might not be acceptable. JL: Okay. But if an artist wanted to, he or she could just take these to the copy place and blow them up twice. That’s what you used to do before you scanned everything in, right? PQ: Yeah, I guess I did that with the Green Lantern stuff. JL: Do you remember the percentage you used to enlarge it? PQ: No, that’s the biggest pain. Now I have templates in Pho-

He draws the panel in detail with a blue pencil,

toshop. When I use a photocopier to enlarge the drawing to

then indicates shadow placement.

11" x 17", I may blow it up at three different sizes, which also allows me to play with panel size a little bit. That’s also the point where I double-check the dialogue. I’ll verify, “Okay, I can make this panel bigger, because the panels below don’t have as much dialogue. I don’t have to worry about crowding the space.” If I work digitally in Photoshop I can make all the changes there. Photoshop is also great for duplicating panels and flipping compositions. JL: When you draw the thumbnails, you leave room for the dialogue and work out the compositions. Then, when you blow up the copies, you refine them even more, right? PQ: Right. Especially when I get to the finished version, because then I re-read the dialogue to consider gesture and facial

Pat uses a 0.3 mechanical pencil with a 2h lead to complete his drawings

expression. But I have to admit my biggest weakness—hold the

on the Bristol board. A 2h is less likely to smudge than a softer lead.

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jokes—is compensating for balloon placement. I’m conscious of

PQ: Right. It’s kind of a bass-ackwards process, I guess. Once

it, but I still struggle with it.

I have a background roughed in, I choose one vanishing point and try to find the angle that works best. When one vanish-

JL: After you’ve enlarged the thumbnails and made ad-

ing point is established, I find the second. Once the backgrounds

justments, do you sketch them lightly with blue pencil?

are complete, I just put in the contours and the figures—things

PQ: Yes. I’ll use a light box to trace the thumbnail quickly in

like that.

blue pencil, just to see if everything still looks okay on the board.

JL: Do you add a little bit of line weight variation?

Then I start drawing and refining. If I haven’t already figured out where my blacks should go in the thumbnails, I use

PQ: I prefer not to indicate line weight too much. I mean, it’s

the blue pencil to indicate blacks. After all that, I take out my

not really my job, is it? That’s why there are inkers. Line

mechanical pencil and really tighten up the drawing.

weight is part of what’s unique and necessary about their discipline. In my opinion, it’s a waste of precious time to try to im-

JL: What size lead do you use: 0.5 or 0.7?

itate a brush or pen mark with my pencil.

PQ: I use the 0.3. I do tend to go through phases, though. I

JL: Is the placement of blacks an important design con-

favor different types of pencils at different times, so don’t count

sideration for you?

on that answer standing a few months from now.

PQ: Yeah. If I don’t add them in the thumbnails, I scribble

JL: Okay, but right now you use the finest mechanical

them in when I’m roughing the board out in blue. Then, when

pencil you can get: the 0.3.

I’m doing the finished drawing with the regular pencil, I just

PQ: Yeah. The blue pencil is actual a mechanical pencil, too.

outline those black areas and put an x through them. I don’t

That’s a 0.5. Once the page is all roughed out in blue and the

like filling in the blacks because it’s a waste of time. Unless I’m

drawings are a bit more solid, I move on to the backgrounds

doing it as a presentation for a—

and lay in the perspective.

JL: Portfolio editor?

JL: You lay in the backgrounds roughly and then find

PQ: Or a friend’s book.

your perspective lines, right?

After transferring his initial freehand composition to board,

He works on a large, slightly angled drafting table,

Pat locates his perspective points.

where his reference materials, tools and Rolodex are easily available.

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storytelling

every single step every single time. But I just felt like this script needed the extra info. Maybe it’s because we come in at the mid-

JL: You altered the layout of the first page significantly

dle of the story. As different pieces appeared to me, they changed

during your thumbnail process.

the entire pace of the three pages.

PQ: Right. I changed it from three to five panels, which I

JL: Like dominoes?

suppose might be a little atypical in a mainstream work en-

PQ: Or some other appropriate cliché. [Laughter.]

vironment.

Most of my additions to the story were in the second and third

JL: How so?

pages, which made them really crowded. So I decided to let a few

PQ: Well, I suppose most people would expect a penciler to draw

panels run back to the first page to let the others breathe and

exactly what’s given to him. That’s true in many situations.

hopefully set a nice overall pace. Page one ended up with the

However, I’ve also found that if I make a big change and have

first two panels from page two, so to speak.

a good justification for doing so—one that makes the end prod-

JL: Why just those two?

uct stronger, not just “‘cause I thought it was cool, man”—then I tend to get my writer’s and editor’s support. Of course, some-

PQ: Panel two on page two is a nice action shot, with the cops

times I just get shot down. [Laughter.]

opening fire. So I figured I could end the page on some action to complete the thought on that page, but also provide the reader

JL: So why did you add panels?

with some incentive to turn the page.

PQ: After I read it through a few times, it just felt choppy to

JL: But the panel you drew doesn’t match the description

me. I understand how quick cuts can work, and I get the value

in the script. Why not?

in letting your audience fill in the gaps…

PQ: To give me some extra room in the “what happens next?”

JL: Like David Mamet talks about in his book, On Di-

approach.

recting Film?

JL: Walk me through your shot choices on page one.

PQ: Right, exactly! He argues that we don’t have to show

Once he has established his perspective points, Pat concentrates on contouring, leaving line weight up to the inker.

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PQ: Okay, panel one is a fairly standard shot, so I tried to

JL: I noticed that your vanishing point is on the gas tanks.

break it up a bit with the foreground character in the left to

Why is that?

lead us into the shot. I kept the building white and attempted

PQ: It’s that technique of placing the vanishing point where

to frame it with black buildings to reinforce the idea that we

you want your audience to look and letting the diagonals point

should be looking at that building.

that way. I knew the gas tanks were going to be important on

For panel two, I really wanted a big shot in a big space so I

page two, so I didn’t want anyone to miss them. Hence the

could play with scale a bit. I wanted the immensity of the build-

“danger stripes” around them too.

ing to symbolize the bad-guys. This also gave me the opportu-

JL: Yeah, subtle. [Laughter]

nity to use the shadows cast by the cops, rather than having to

PQ: Thanks. Which leads to panel five, the action shot that

draw nine-million cops charging in.

hopefully gets everyone to turn the page.

JL: You drew a bunch of other stuff, why stop there?

JL: Where we see the result of the action?

PQ: Two reasons. One: I already drew a bunch of other stuff. And two: I was trying to be a little clever there. I think it gives

PQ: Hopefully. And we also see your favorite panel.

readers the info, while allowing them to linger visually on the

[Laughter.]

heroes and wreckage, to understand the scenario.

JL: So we have seven panels on this page.

Panel three is not a great shot. I was looking for a way to

PQ: Right: one addition and one panel that drifted over from

have them both leave from an interesting angle, and it’s just

page three.

kind of blah.

JL: Walk us through it.

JL: I agree. The black frames the characters well, but it doesn’t have the impact you seemed to be looking for.

PQ: Panel one here is the revised page two/panel two shot. I basically split that original moment into two different moments.

PQ: Yep. On panel four, which used to be page two/panel one,

This is the second moment. Here’s where I decided I’d go with

I thought needed some scale as well. So I backed my camera up

a sight gag, rather than the convenient hatch/vent.

so the viewer could see more.

Pat uses contrast and a vanishing point to frame the center of the action and lead the eye to its desired focus.

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JL: Do you think an editor or writer would accept that

JL: In panels six and seven, it looks like you’re repeating

solution? The “squat and shoot?” [Laughter.]

your approach of taking a single scripted panel and breaking it into separate moments.

PQ: No, probably not.

PQ: Right, and in panel seven, I’m trying to end on something

JL: Why is there an inset panel?

interesting to get people to turn the page.

PQ: I was trying to condense the passage of time between when

JL: On to page three. What’s with the spitting web goo?

Lewis blasts the whole and they jump through. I think that aspect of the panel works. The problem is that the angle and dis-

PQ: That goes back to the thought about doing something dif-

tance don’t showcase the bullets hitting the gas tanks.

ferent with the character. We’ve seen spidery characters before, and most of them have webs shooting out of their hands, so I

JL: It looks like you’ve got little spark marks there You

thought I would go with something else.

don’t think that’s enough?

JL: The script doesn’t call for any webs, does it?

PQ: I’m not sure. Maybe it’s enough when I complete the thought with the explosion in the background of panel three.

PQ: No. Lewis and Tara shoot back at the cops in the script. I

That’s similar to the original panel three description.

went with the Tara/Tarantula name and came up with something else that I thought would make an interesting visual el-

JL: Here’s another point where you’ve made some

ement. As it turned out, I was able to use the web to help pace

changes. Why?

out the story.

PQ: In this case, I thought the dialogue had more impact than

JL: How so? Are you referring to the way you’ve broken

the panel descriptions, so I tried to accent the text in panels four

the action up in panels one through three?

and five. I thought the opposing camera angles and distance would work well with the dialogue. Closer and up in panel four

PQ: Yeah. It struck me as an interesting way to cut between

for the “Oh, no,” then down and further away in panel five for

some quick actions, then have the “reveal” in the next tier. I

the “We’re screwed.” The distance in panel five also allowed me

thought the heroes needed a moment to hear the voice from off

to show their altitude relative to the city outside of the window.

panel. This meant they needed some kind of protection against

Pat cuts back and forth between the opposing sides of the battle, building up a sense of urgency.

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the gunfire. So Tara spits a web wall to shield them from the bullets, which I indicated with the little peaks in the wall. JL: Then in panel four we see another inset. Are you using this inset the same way you did earlier—to condense time? PQ: I hope so. To me it also acts as a separate moment that reveals where the voice is coming from and its location relative to the heroes. Panels six and seven are pretty straightforward. I did try to pay attention to left-to-right orientation on panel seven so the reader “leaves the story” with the getaway ship. JL: You’ve mentioned previously that you want each page to complete a thought. Where does that idea come from and is there more to it? PQ: I read an article, or maybe it was an excerpt from an article on Harvey Kurtzman. In it, he talks about each tier of panels as a sentence, and the page as a paragraph that ends with a completed thought. I’m probably misquoting, but the idea stuck with me. That’s the kind of page I like to make when I can.

advice JL: What words of wisdom do you have for young artists? PQ: There’s a difference between being a really big fan and being a professional who’s also a fan. Make the commitment to be a professional. Be willing to accept criticism and learn from it. Don't be afraid to try a new technique or tool. And know your history—comics didn’t start in 1993. Pay attention to other visual storytelling media and learn from them. And remember: If you have to explain the story, then you didn't do your job... no matter how cool the drawings are.

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Pat Quinn’s Fight Night

Inks by John Lowe

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Sean Murphy

Sean Murphy lives in Los Angeles with his dog, Red. His credits include Batman, Superman, Star Wars and Teen Titans, but lately he's been striking out on his own, writing novels. Off Road was his first original graphic novel for Oni Press in 2005. In 2007 he released Outer Orbit, another creator-owned project with Zach Howard for Dark Horse. It should be noted that Sean completed this work years before turning professional, while studying in the Sequential Art department at the Savannah College of Art and Design. His style and methodology have since changed substantially, but this work represents a very promising student interpretation of the script.

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the script

character design

John Lowe: When you get a script in hand, what’s the

JL: After you read the script and make drawings and no-

first thing you do?

tations, what’s the next step?

Sean Murphy: I read it a few times to see what the writer is

SM: I research my material and get references to draw from.

really saying. I take notes on what I like and what ideas I have:

I figure out how the characters will look, and I decide on the

buildings, cars, costumes, characters—anything that comes to

backgrounds.

mind. If it’s a good script with a good story, I try to emphasize a distinct visual storytelling element. For example, I may want

JL: With this three-page Fight Night script, you have a

the theme of the book to be dark or light. I might decide to tell

fairly mainstream, action-oriented short story with char-

the story with mostly straight-on shots, or mostly dynamic

acters that aren’t established. Was it fun for you to create

shots. But if it’s light on story or the script's uninspiring, I’ll

the characters, or did you have to work a lot with it?

just do what I can to improve it through the images while

SM: It should have been fun because it was so small. But the

meeting my deadline.

characters were stereotypical. So I just, you know, drew a female

JL: So the type of story really determines your visual

character with a gun and her nerdy assistant. It was three pages

approach.

and it had a deadline. I did the best I could with every single panel under the circumstances.

SM: Yeah. Is it an adventure or mystery? Is it funny and corny

JL: Let’s say you were designing an environment that the

or really serious?

characters return to several times in the script. You would

JL: If it’s something you like that's visually exciting, like

have to establish a visual continuity for that space. In that

a Batman script; it’s easier for you to make the art really

case, would you map the environment for yourself on a

dynamic, right?

separate sheet of paper?

SM: Definitely.

SM: It depends on how important the environment is. If it’s the

JL: Do those images come to you immediately when you

Batcave, I don’t want to have a half-assed idea and inconsistent

read through a script?

details. It’s going to be very important to keep track of where they’re sitting, where the car is parked, where the entrance is

SM: Yeah, pretty much. Ideas come to mind immediately. But

and where the dropoff is. All these things make a difference.

I try to steer away from anything that’s fairly obvious. I try to

The more important a scene and its stage are, the more they

think as creatively as possible. In comics, many common themes

need to be planned out.

and scenes can spawn certain familiar images. I try to avoid those and do something new, you know? When I’m drawing these little sketches, I take a number of

thumbnails

things into consideration. What do I need to show? What’s the simplest and easiest way to convey that to a reader? What do I

JL: Now that you’re working on full scripts, do you gen-

want to draw? What would a reader want to see? How can I

erally thumbnail out the entire story before you begin?

impress readers and make them feel like the book was worth SM: No. I usually do scenes. Thumbing is such a tiring process.

their money?

I can’t do a whole issue in a day. I can do roughly five pages at a time before I’m exhausted. For someone like Mike Mignola, it’s the best part. But although I appreciate the process, it gives me a headache.

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Sean jots possible panel compositions directly onto the script while he reads.

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He uses scraps of paper to play with early character designs.

JL: Well, there’s a lot of thinking involved. This is really

JL: What does your final thumbnail look like?

the problem-solving part, right?

SM: I’m really cheap, so I try to use as much space on each page

SM: Yeah. Definitely. There’s no question that this is the most

as I can. I have a stack of scrap 11" x 17" paper. I draw a small

important step. I need to figure out which panels are going to

thumbnail in the corner, about four to six inches tall. Once I

lead the page. What sizes and dimensions are they going to be?

figure out what I want for that page, I use the same piece of

I don’t think drawing skills are necessarily the most important

paper to sketch in exactly where the panels will be and how I’ll

factor in being a successful comic artist. Sometimes it’s more

crop each panel. I even draw the characters and the perspec-

about being able to lay a page out well.

tive—things like that—on that same piece of paper.

JL: If you do five pages and get all the shots the way you

JL: So you work out a little notation, like a postage stamp,

want them, is that a full day?

in the upper left hand corner. Then you develop the page on the same sheet of paper.

SM: Well, I can do ten pages in a day, but it’s a long day.

SM: Right.

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Sean draws his final layouts on 11" x 7" newsprint. After making the initial pencil sketch, he refines the drawing with a ballpoint pen and a Sharpie.

JL: You used newsprint for these thumbnails. You’ve said

same size, or obviously different. Even when the panels are

you’ll use basically anything that’s 11" x 17", which is the

blank, I think they should already look good, like distilled paint-

same size ratio of the live area on an original comic page.

ings. Just the size of the squares and their relationship to each

What specific tools do you use in your thumbnail stages?

other are really important.

SM: A pencil or a ballpoint pen—whatever’s lying around.

At the time I drew this Fight Night script, however, I was less focused on the relationships between the panels.

JL: Okay, so you just sketch it in. And you’re pretty loose with these. You just work with composition at this point.

JL: But that has changed.

SM: Right. I’m also deciding which panel is the most impor-

SM: Yeah. At this first stage, I put some thought into every-

tant one on each page. That will be my biggest panel.

thing I’m going to design. I want to make sure I know where I’m going. I try to make most of my architectural decisions at

I look at the symmetry of a page, too. I don’t want panels that

this point as well. I don’t want to be lost in the penciling process;

are too close to the same size. They need to be either exactly the

I want to know what I’m drawing.

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going to the board

important. But sometimes, especially with wide shots that show a lot of distance, I’ll just imply perspective and structure with lines and squares.

JL: It looks like you used a ballpoint pen to solidify the figures in these thumbnails. What next? Do you take it to the lightbox?

inking

SM: Yes, I use a non-photo blue pencil to trace onto the Bristol. I already have the panel borders inked with a no. 8 Micron

JL: Okay, so now it’s time to ink?

and a ruler, so it takes me about two minutes to loosely trace the whole page. Tracing helps me place each object in the panel.

SM: Yeah. My inking process is a little different now than it

When my panels have perspective, I draw the perspective marks

was back when I did this story.

on the Bristol with a different color.

JL: I remember. I was always hammering on you about

JL: I see. Then you adjust the drawing to fit your per-

this. You were just using Microns, right?

spective marks if you need to.

SM: Yeah.

JL: With these pages in particular, you used the Pigma

JL: So you keep all your energy in the thumbnails, and

Microns, right? Which points did you use?

then make any little adjustments you need once you blow

SM: A .005; maybe a .01 or .03.

them up?

JL: Honestly, it doesn’t really matter what the inking tool

SM: Yeah. If it’s the edge of a building or something, I

is, as long as you’re comfortable with it. These days

might bend it slightly, rather than make it precise. Even

you’ve moved to brush or quill, but some people still use

though my sketch isn’t correct, I can get away with bending

Pigmas very effectively. Even though you used a me-

this and that.

chanical pen for this, you built up the lines to get your

JL: Okay, so what’s next?

variations, correct?

SM: I erase the blue pencil. The blue stains the page, so it does-

SM: Yeah. I was a lot less confident about my line weight back

n’t really go away. Plus the wax messes up inks. I find it less dis-

then, but I didn’t stay there. I’ve grown into my confidence.

tracting when it’s less pronounced. I start penciling lightly with

JL: That’s good. Did you fill in all the blacks on these

a No. 2, and then tighten it up as I go.

pages with a Sharpie?

JL: How tight do you want your final pencils to be before

SM: Yeah.

you start inking?

JL: Do you use the computer to fill in blacks now?

SM: Not very. I go fast. Back when I drew this, I probably worked tighter than I do now. I used to make everything very

SM: Never. I still like the craft of the page, from beginning to

geometric and sharp, without shading or anything. Everything

end. I’ve actually become a professional inker. I inked a DC

was blocked away in that animated style. When I ink now, I use

book for my friend, Zach. Then there’s another book for Dark

a brush and quill. It’s organic, and I try to embrace the mis-

Horse in which we use three methods. I ink myself, he inks him-

takes, rather than to plan how it works. I just give myself a

self, and sometimes he pencils and I ink.

loose drawing and start blocking it in ink according to feel.

JL: When you ink someone else, do you change your ap-

Yeah, I’ll pencil the hell out of a particular space or image that’s

proach to fit their style or theme?

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SM: Yeah, I’d have to. Zach Howard has a very angular,

how to apply it.

Mike Mignola-meets-Jamie Hewlett style. He uses a Rapi-

JL: Right. How did you study placement of blacks? What

dograph to ink, but he fools most people into thinking he uses

approach do you take to this stage?

a brush.

SM: First, I think about balance. I don’t want the top half of

JL: When you ink him, do you use same approach that

the page to be weighed down with blacks while the bottom half

you use to ink your own pencils?

is white; I want it fairly evenly distributed. I also direct focus

SM: No. Back when I first started, he basically wanted a tracer.

with black just by surrounding something with it and leaving

That was unrealistic, and I didn’t realize it, so I tried my best

a white center. That’s framing; it draws attention to what's

to trace him. I got into the brush and the quill, and I was very

going on in the white area.

mechanical about it. I rarely took liberties. Eventually, he re-

JL: Do you instinctively know where you want the

alized that I have a better knack for adding to the drawing

blacks to go?

than just tracing. He started drawing in a way that allowed us to create a style together, you know? We worked out a system for

SM: Back when I did these pages, I didn’t quite have a

creating one style of art together.

process for it. I would draw on the fly and then fill my work in with black, which is not the best way to do it. Now, I plan

JL: So when he inks his own work, he uses a tight pen-

it with black shapes from the get-go, and I find that easier

ciling style?

and more effective.

SM: Right.

JL: When you plan the black shapes, what is your

JL: When he works for you, will he pencil it much more

process? Do you start with the thumbnails?

loosely?

SM: Exactly. I think about the kind of lighting I want in a

SM: Oh, yeah. He may write notes on it about adding some-

particular thumbnail. Also, I know shadows and dark objects

thing: a texture there, a splatter effect here, things like that.

are going to be black.

JL: Is that more interesting for you?

JL: What is your inking process like?

SM: It is. Also, sometimes he has me ink the hair on his char-

SM: I ink a panel at a time so that I don’t smudge. I use

acters because I use a brush and hair turns out better with a

Sharpies, microns, rulers, French curves, templates, ink,

brush. If he’s on a strained deadline, he gives me more liberty

brushes, ballpoint pens, sponges for textures, a dry brush, a

to interpret. Sometimes it’s been like inking his thumbnails

white gel pen and a Faber Castell brush pen. I fix things with

because the sketches were so loose and gestural. My penciler

Mr. Martin’s and add my splatter effects at the end. I’ll ink

doesn’t want me to change his style completely. Most pencilers

all the big, black areas with a Q-Tip because ink is cheaper

think they get mauled, and I went through that stage, too. But

than Sharpies. I’m careful, though, because sweaty hands can

after a while you begin to see that the best inking is achieved

absorb ink and leave little fingerprints all over the page.

when two artists work together.

Don’t kill anyone with a page because the police will easily track your prints.

JL: These Fight Night pages have a really good distribution of black and white. Do you always pay attention to that ratio? SM: Oh, yeah. My process is simple. I put down as much black as I possibly can just because it’s fast, potent and easy if you know

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SM: Yes, I’m done. Of course, when it takes 12 hours, there

scheduling

isn’t any free time. There’s no gym; there’s very little downtime. I just finish my page, scan it, and go to bed.

JL: I remember that even as a student you were pretty fast at all this.

JL: Right. But if you do finish early, you feel like you’ve

SM: I spent about six hours per page, from layouts to inks.

earned that day and you’re done.

JL: Everything. Is that still the case today?

SM: Yeah. I’m going out of the house.

SM: Well, I try to slow down because I have a whole day to do

JL: So is this a five-day schedule?

the pencils. When I was on Batman, I would take anywhere be-

SM: Six days, and I work as quickly as I can because I never

tween eight and twelve hours per page.

know when the power might go out or I might need a day off.

JL: When you’re working on a book, do you keep a con-

Sometimes I just can’t draw because it’s just not comfortable,

sistent schedule?

you know? So I try to get through the pages as effectively as I can, and prepare for those days when it’s not going to work.

SM: Absolutely. I’ve never missed a deadline.

JL: You’ve never missed a deadline. That’s a very important

JL: Do you start at a certain time every day? Do you com-

point to make for anyone aspiring to do comics. Someone

plete a page a day?

could be a very effective storyteller and a great draftsman,

SM: Yeah, a page a day. I start at 8 a.m.

but that’s not worth much if they’re unreliable.

JL: When you finish that page, are you done for the day?

SM: I don’t want to ever be that guy who’s late.

SM: Yeah.

JL: Editors respect that, too. Ultimately, that’s what they remember about an artist when the hiring time comes.

JL: So if a page only takes you six hours, you’re done at three in the afternoon?

Sean’s work always contains a well-balanced distribution of black and white space. Micron pens provide the ink in this story, while the splatter effect in the lower left corner consists of Dr. Martin’s Bleed-Proof White, applied with a toothbrush.

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perspective

the things the book suggests, my work would be really slow. So I learned everything, then used only what I really needed.

JL: Another thing that always stood out about your stu-

JL: Absolutely. One thing I see with students is that if

dent work was your sense of perspective. It always seemed

you give them a system, they tend to over-think it and

quick, easy and natural for you. How did you go about

make it too mathematical. Once you have a true under-

learning perspective? You had art lessons when you were

standing of perspective, it becomes instinctive in some

young, right?

ways. It’s a grid that you start seeing everywhere. The

SM: My mentor was Leslie Swank, a freelancer in New

more I teach, the more I stress the importance of being

Hampshire. He taught me for eight years.

aware of the horizon line. If you know what your horizon line is and where it is, perspective is really pretty

JL: Early on?

straightforward.

SM: Yeah, from age eight or nine through high school,

SM: The more you do it, the more comfortable you get. And

maybe. I learned a lot of what I know today from his influ-

after a while I learned about the tick mark system.

ence. He taught me perspective, value, painting, drawing,

JL: Okay, tell me about that.

design and all that stuff. And he wasn’t close-minded to comics like most art teachers. In fact, he draws a comic strip

SM: Sean Crystal taught me to create a set of marks along

to this day. I learned to be fast, to respect clients and dead-

the sides of the panel. As long as you don’t cross any of those

lines, and to treat art like a business, not a hobby. He always

lines, and they all go to the same vanishing point, you’re fine.

told me that great artists are always hungry, and I strongly

I make the marks with a red pencil so I don’t draw too much

believe that.

on my page.

JL: So since you practiced perspective from that early

JL: That way, you don’t confuse yourself when you go

age, you kind of got it down.

back over the regular pencil.

SM: Yeah, it’s a language that’s extremely important to learn.

SM: Right. The thumbnails have so much energy in them, but

The more you learn all about the complicated mathematical

even though I do them with perspective in mind, they’re not

rules of perspective, the less you need them. I highly recommend

correct. So when I draw them bigger, I try to fit the perspective

learning perspective so that you can half-ass it better if you need

to the drawing, even if it’s out of the cone of vision or even if

to save time.

it’s technically incorrect. I still embrace incorrectness sometimes if it makes the shot more impressive visually.

JL: Right. And once you get one-point and two-point perspective, it’s fairly simple. SM: Yeah.

storytelling

JL: Did you find any books that were useful, or did you mostly learn through observation and tutoring?

JL: I’m comparing the script to your visuals on page one. First of all, you pulled the number of panels out from

SM: When I was in art college, I read Perspective for Comic

three to five. Also, in the opening panel, the script calls

Book Artists by David Chelsea. That book has some complex,

for a “giant futuristic building lit by searchlights and spot-

NASA-level perspective in it. I actually went through the

lights, surrounded by cops on the ground and in the air.

whole book with a piece of paper and a ruler to learn every les-

Smoke and flames pour from part of the building.” I think

son and make sure I understood it. However, if I were to do all

most people would probably approach that from the

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Sean will later cast the machine on the left in shadow to keep its detail from pulling the reader’s focus.

ground, emphasizing all the cops surrounding the build-

I want to ask you about a choice you made on page two.

ing. You chose to go to the sky. Why did you do that?

On the first panel you had this big machine drawn out on the left that was pretty detailed. Then you put an overlay

SM: So many comics show the cops on the ground looking up.

on there and redid the panel and put most of it in silhou-

I thought maybe a SWAT team rappelling from the roof with

ette. Why did you do that?

a helicopter hovering beside them would be more suggestive and

SM: That panel bothered me. As cool as the machine looks, it

visually interesting.

doesn’t matter to the story. It’s distracting. If they are running

JL: We do get the idea of what’s happening even though

from guys with guns, there shouldn’t be a panel like that in the

we don’t see all the cops on the ground. Why did you ex-

comic. It looked great but I didn’t think it told the story.

pand this to five panels?

JL: In a certain way it stops the action because they’re in

SM: A layout has to make sense silently for me. And I don’t

repose in that panel, and then all of a sudden they’re

think we're really capable of digesting too much in a single panel.

being fired at again. Looking at it now, is there another

I tend to digest one idea at a time. I chose to break this page

way that you might have approached that panel?

down into five panels to clarify the introduction to the story.

SM: I would continue their gun blasts somehow. I might show

JL: I notice that you establish the shot, then cut away

the woman in the foreground firing at the viewer, with bullets

with the helicopter coming in more closely. The cops are

hitting the ground near her feet. In the background you could

closer to the window now, and we start to see the two fig-

clearly see the other guy finding the hatch or whatever.

ures. The inset panel—where he’s turned around, reacting and talking to her—is good. It gives us a little

JL: So by having her in the foreground, you’d continue

breathing space as readers. Then you have that silhouette

the action. You would keep the background the same, so

of the helicopter in the background, so there’s a visual

you’d still be able to establish their environment. But the

link between the inside and the outside. Finally, you cut

sequence of events would make more sense.

to the heroes running as the cops break in through the

SM: Right.

window.

JL: Three years ago when you did these pages, you must

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have thought this was good. Looking at it now, it may not serve the story most effectively, but you didn't have the benefit of hindsight. As artists, we do the best we can with a project, then move on. It’s good for us to look back at old projects and see how much we’ve grown and what we’d do differently now. SM: Comic artists work at such high volume in a short amount of time. An illustration has to be in and out. If you make a mistake—fine. Just learn from it. JL: On page two, you expanded on the number of panels once again, from five to seven. Was that for the purposes of a clearer narrative? SM: The way each panel was written just felt really cramped to me. There was so much happening in each panel. There was no room to breathe. I didn’t want each panel to have a cluttered background. Also, I wanted to separate some of the actions. I made small “moment” panels where one thing happens at a time. JL: Right, right. I think you achieved what you were after. The script does seem to end rather abruptly. For example, I do think you have to indicate the hatch before they jump through it, even though that panel isn’t in the script. In panel three, you put the woman behind these canisters that we instinctively feel could blow up. Then she turns around, he’s motioning her, and he’s got a hatch open. I also like the use of the vertical panel to illustrate them dropping down through the hatch. SM: A panel is essentially one second out of the whole story. The writer tries to fit “the guy finds a door and then opens it,” into one panel, but that’s two different actions. I don’t see that Sean uses the shape of a helicopter to link the interior and exterior shots.

happening. It’s just like how you can’t show a guy punching someone and then show that someone lying on the ground in the same panel. It just doesn’t work like that. I separated those because otherwise the scene isn’t sequential. It doesn’t make temporal sense. JL: Do you take those liberties with scripts now? Since did this exercise, you’ve done a lot of professional work. If you got something like a DC script, and you wanted to insert

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a few panels for the clarity of the story, would you do it?

probably the best kind of panel you can do if you’re trying to explain something. This panel is sort of a map of the situation.

SM: Yeah, I would do that.

It’s not necessarily that exciting, and I don’t necessarily know if

JL: Would you consult the writer or the editor before-

it was the right thing to do.

hand?

JL: That makes sense. You solved the problem of keeping

SM: I just make the changes. I don’t ask. I was told they don’t

them alive in a credible way. Then we get a very dramatic

mind. An editor’s job is to get work finished by deadline, above

shot of the city as they’re leaving.

all else. Editors care about the art, but that’s not really their job. It’s the artist’s job. We’re usually fine interpreting the script, as long as we keep the same costumes on the characters and stay

advice

consistent with the story. JL: As long as you don’t change the story so dramatically

JL: You did this exercise as a student. After years of

that you go against the intent of the writer.

professional experience, what advice do you have for new artists?

SM: Of course, I wouldn’t always recommend doing it. There was a Batman scene where Batman and Robin were talking

SM: Get used to saving money and stretching dollars. Sur-

while swinging over buildings. And I thought it was too clichéd,

round yourself with people who are equal or better than you

and I didn’t think it likely that they could talk while swinging

and learn from them. Never let anyone treat you as anything

around. Plus, I thought it'd be nice to put them in the Batmo-

other than a professional. And keep an eye out for new mis-

bile. I asked the editor if I could just draw them driving around

takes in your work. There’s always room to grow.

in the Batmobile and end it with Bruce Wayne talking to Robin while dressing into his regular clothes. He was wearing his Bat clothes and a tie. It was really strange and I don’t know if I should have done it. It was interesting in a different kind of way, but at the same time it lacked the dynamics usually associated with Batman and Bruce Wayne. JL: Right. The last page of Fight Night is pretty straightforward. You only omitted one thing from the script. The description of panel two says, “The cops open up on them. Lewis and Tara aim low, shooting them in the legs.” But you just have the heroes facing off with the cops at the top. You don’t show that they’re not trying to kill the cops, and it isn't the most dynamic panel. Why did you make this choice? SM: I was looking for a clear way to show why she doesn’t get shot. They’re essentially fish in a barrel. They’re easy shots. One grenade would do it. But I figured I could show her shooting up at an angle, so that the cops would be afraid to handle her. This kind of full, standard, side shot conveys ideas very clearly. It’s

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Sean Murphy’s Fight Night

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Fight Night:Working Methods

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Time Troubling:Working Methods

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time troubling Script by mark kneece Artists mark schultz chris brunner kelsey shannon

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Script: Time Troubling page 1 Panel 1: A large spaceship is getting pummeled in the vicinity of earth. You choose the source of the catastrophe: meteor shower, photon torpedoes fired from an enemy ship, etc. Half the ship is getting blown to hell and back. From inside the ship: Aaghhh! Panel 2: Cut to what’s left of the interior of the blasted ship. Wreckage is everywhere. A man and a woman stand over a stunned and injured alien (or robot—you choose). The woman is reaching out to help the creature. The man is pulling something from his belt. Woman: Are you all right? Panel 3: Close-up of the man now examining a high-tech looking gadget. We need to establish a small teleportation device in this panel. Man: We can warp to another dimensional time zone if I can program this before— Woman: No time! Panel 4: The three of them run toward an escape pod. Both are helping the small alien (robot) along. Woman: Get to the escape pod now! Panel 5: Cut to an egg-shaped pod beginning a fiery descent into the atmosphere as the ship explodes in the background. Panel 6: Over the shoulder shot of an unidentifiable creature (Neanderthal) watching the pod landing hard in a savannalike grassy area.

page 2 Panel 1: The trio now stands outside in a rough semi-circle. The pod door is open behind them with smoke coming out— the pod is done-for. The alien /robot looks better, though charred and obviously still injured. The man is still fooling with the time warp device. The grass to one side of them is waist high. Alien/robot: Aghhh… my head… Woman: Hey—for the edge of the galaxy—this isn’t so bad. Man: Alright! I think I got it set up, but I can’t be s… Panel 2: The alien /robot is hit with a spear (or rock) sfx: Fwatch! (or another appropriate sound)

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Panel 3: The couple turns in shock to witness the alien /robot collapse. Other spears and rocks are hitting the ground around them. Alien/Robot: … huuuungh… sfx: thunk! thunk! tang! Panel 4: A crowd of Neanderthals has risen from the tall grass and is advancing towards them. Several are carrying spears, handmade knives, or rocks. Off panel: Oh God! Panel 5: The group of space travelers huddle together. They are overpowered and surrounded by cavemen. The biggest and hairiest Neanderthal is sniffing at the woman who, still holding the alien /robot, cringes in disgust. The man has the teleportation device in his hand. Panel 6: The man covertly presses the button on the time warp device. Man (thought balloon): Please work… Panel 7: Sound effect panel sfx: Tzzzip.

page 3 Panel 1: The group of space travelers in the same position, but looking around in amazement. sfx: Hoooooonk! Panel 2: Pull back to reveal that they are standing in the middle of a busy street within the massive city of Chicago (you choose the decade: 1920’s–1960’s) towering around them. A cab is bearing down on them. Trucks, traffic, etc. hem them in. Driver: Move it, you stupid jerks! sfx: Hoooooonk! Hoooonk! Panel 3: A cab is about to clobber them. The passengers look horrified. The spaceman has the teleportation device in his hand. Cab Driver: Get out of the road! Man 1 (thought): One warp left! Panel 4: Sound effect panel sfx: Skreeeech! sfx: Ceerasssh! Panel 5: The cab driver, his cab smashed into a telephone pole behind him (maybe a chain-reaction pileup behind him, if possible), has his hands gesticulating wildly, trying to explain to an obviously skeptical policeman writing out a citation. Cab Driver: Ghosts! It was ghosts! Policeman: Uh huh… Panel 6: You, the artist, choose an environment in which the space travelers are placed. One of them says: Hmm… well, it could be worse…

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Mark Schultz

Mark Schultz has been cartooning and illustrating for over twenty years. He is best known as the creator of the award-winning speculative adventure comic book, Xenozoic Tales. Mark is also widely recognized for co-creating and co-writing SubHuman, an underwater adventure series for Dark Horse Comics, and for scripting a five-year span of DC Comics’ Superman, Man of Steel. He has scripted and/or drawn many other popular fictional icons, including Flash Gordon, Tarzan, The Spirit, Star Wars, Aliens and Predator. As an illustrator, Mark depicted the adventures of Robert E. Howard’s Conan of Cimmeria for the highly regarded Wandering Star/Del Rey editions of Howard’s works. He also illustrated the autobiography of the famed painter of prehistoric life, Charles R. Knight. Schultz has been awarded five Harvey Awards, two Eisners, an Inkpot, a Spectrum, and three Haxturs (the last from the Salon Internacional del Comic del Princpado de Asturias). He is currently working on a cautionary storybook tentatively titled Storms at Sea, as well as writing the Prince Valiant comic strip for the Sunday comics. He lives with his wife/letterer, Denise, and their two cats in the mountains of northeastern Pennsylvania.

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the script

MS: I could tell right away. It wasn’t so much that there were problems with the storytelling, it was that Mark had divided

John Lowe: When you receive a script, what are the first

the story information into so many panels. One of the pages

steps you take?

had seven panels on it. I could see very easy ways to consolidate

Mark Schultz: I’ve gotta tell you, this is a pretty unique sit-

that information into fewer panels and eliminate crowding on

uation for me. Up to this point I’ve always worked from my

the page.

own script. I’ve never actually penciled someone else’s script.

I suggested the changes to Mark and asked for his input. He

The first job I had in the industry was inking over Val Semeiks’

was very cool about it. He agreed that the changes wouldn’t ef-

pencils for a back-up story in Savage Sword of Conan—Val’s

fect what he was trying to communicate. It’s definitely wise to

first story. At the same time I got that job, Kitchen Sink ac-

make sure any changes work for the writer because he may have

cepted my Xenozoic proposal and offered to give me my own

a certain rhythm in mind for the page.

book. Of course I accepted, and for years I only did artwork

JL: Let’s talk about those changes.

based on my own writing.

MS: Well, since I haven’t drawn continuity in at least six years,

After that, I started writing scripts for other properties. I was

I wanted to make the compositions and the panel breakdowns

a scriptwriter dealing with pencilers. I may have penciled a spot

much more formal than usual. I wanted to get back to grid

panel or two, but this Time Troubling script is the first actual

breakdowns and let the information in the panel tell the story,

storytelling I’ve ever done based on a script I didn’t write.

rather than using dynamic panels as a storytelling element.

As a scriptwriter, I want to hear from the artist so we can dis-

The older I get, the more conservative I become, and I’m start-

cuss what’s working for him and what isn’t. If we collaborate

ing to see dynamic panels as extraneous to the story. Looking

from the beginning, we can produce a strip that works for both

back, I wonder why the hell I did Xenozoic Tales the way I

of us. When I got Mark’s script, I called him because I had a

did. It’s confusing. I should have kept it simple. Mark’s script

few ideas and questions for him.

offered the opportunity to rethink my choices.

JL: Did your questions jump out at you right away or did

I really wanted to keep the basic six-panel grid, so I asked Mark

they emerge after you started the thumbnails?

Mark first reads through the script, then calls the writer to get a sense of his intent and to discuss the possibility of making a few minor variations. A writer himself, Mark believes the results are better when writers and artists work together.

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about combining action and getting rid of the panel designated

MS: It depends. This process is very organic. I usually have

as “sound effects” on page two. I wanted a splash panel at the

very specific compositions in mind for a particular panel. For

beginning, so I suggested combining some action panels in order

instance, I knew what I wanted to do with that introductory

to pare the first page down to five panels. Once this was set-

panel on page one. I wanted it to set the tone for what followed

tled, the splash panel was the only variation in panel weight. I

by moving the eye in a specific way. Again, I wanted the panel

kept the pages very uniform.

to have a very specific, formal shape. So I began doodling ideas.

JL: I see you combined panels two and three on page one.

I try to keep my thumbnails in one place because I want all those compositions working together. They may all be very cool, but

MS: All I had to do to make that work was shift some dialogue

if they don’t work together to lead the reader’s eye through the

from one panel to the next.

page, it doesn’t matter if they’re the best individual composi-

JL: Then on page two, you eliminated the sound effect

tions in the world.

panel.

A long time ago, I made a little outline of a thumbnail page at

MS: Yes. I used facial expressions to compensate for the miss-

two-thirds the size of a full page. Whenever I do thumbnails,

ing panel.

I photocopy that master outline and drop in my panels.

JL: How many times did you read through the script?

JL: I notice you don’t put in gutters on your thumbnails. Is that just shorthand?

MS: First, I read it to get a feel for the genre of the story and the visuals involved. Then I went back, re-read it carefully,

MS: Yes. It’s quicker that way. Sometimes I think I really

and started making my notes.

should put in the gutters because, like the balloons, they’re a part of the composition.

JL: Do you make notes on the actual script or on separate pages?

JL: I use a Sharpie to outline the guides on a DC page of Bristol board and then scan that page in or photocopy it.

MS: I make my notes on the script in pencil or red pen, so I

You can reduce the page to any size you like and know

can quickly refer to them when I talk to the writer about any

that it will be accurate and all of your gutters will be a

changes I’m considering. My notes are very spur-of-the-

uniform size.

moment. I don’t use a system or a code.

MS: I should do that.

JL: What do you do after you look at the script?

JL: What type of pencil do you use for thumbnails?

MS: In this case, after I made sure Mark and I were on the

MS: I usually use a mechanical pencil with thick lead—not

same page with the script, I started my thumbnails.

the really skinny type. Occasionally, I’ll use a regular, old-fashioned pencil.

thumbnails

JL: Anything that’s smooth and appropriate. MS: I like a medium weight. Not so light that you’re digging

JL: Do you draw the thumbnails on typing paper?

into the page or so heavy that you’re smudging the lead. MS: Yes. JL: On your thumbnails, it seems like the first page is very JL: Do you make several small, abstract sketches for each

tight while the third is very loose. Do you think about the

panel, or do you have a fairly clear idea of how the panels will

composition and shape first and then play with the black-

look now that you’ve read through the script several times?

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Mark draws on a stiff board, which he can either prop on his desk or on his lap. He uses a regular no.2 pencil to work out his thumbnails on standard typing paper.

and-white pattern after the composition is formed?

after a day of work or during a break from a script I’m writing. I just pick up some paper and doodle. So it’s hard to tell, but

MS: Again, it depends on the panel. Sometimes I have a very

I’d say that’s a solid six hours for the first page of thumbnails.

specific idea and everything just falls into place. Other times, I know I need to balance another panel, so I begin by thinking

JL: By the time you got to page three, which is looser and

about the pure light-and-dark design.

more similar to your typical work style, how much time did you spend on those thumbnails?

I’ve got to admit my thumbnails tend to look loose, like the last page I drew for this script. Since this was the first time I’d

MS: Maybe two or three hours. The drawings were looser and

worked with an outside writer in so long, I was excited and I

faster, but the ideas came together more slowly on the third page

began a little tighter than usual. Plus, I’m rusty, so I spent

than on the first. Because the script called for so many shots

more time on it than I should have spent. [Laughter.]

with group interaction, the later panels took longer to figure out. I did a lot of erasing and correcting. There’s more actual

JL: When you drew the tight first page, how much time

thinking on that last page—in fact, on the last two pages—

do you think you spent?

than there is on that first page. I just spent more time giving

MS: I work on my thumbnails sporadically: in front of the TV

the first page a finished look.

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Mark draws his first page of thumbnails tightly, but the looser third page is more indicative of his typical working style. He roughs word balloons into his thumbnails in order to make them a dynamic part of the composition.

JL: On a three-page story, I imagine you do all the

so I’ll pencil it here.” Then he jumps to another page, and says,

thumbnails at once. When you’re illustrating your own

“I’ll do a little idea here.” Then he’ll go back and ink another

stories, do you thumbnail the entire story at the same

part before he’s even done penciling. It’s a very free-form way

time? Or do you work in chunks?

of working. I get the impression from our discussions that he’s always done it that way. Back in the fifties, when he was work-

MS: I work in chunks. I’m very methodical about it. However,

ing with people like Frank Frazetta and Angelo Torres, they all

not everyone is. I live close to Al Williamson so I see how he

pitched in. He’d give them a basic guideline, they’d all look at

works. His work, of course, is unimpeachable. To me it’s up

the script, he’d give them an outline of what needed to be done,

there at the top, but I could never work the way he works.

and they would just drop things in as the urge moved them.

JL: How does he work?

That’s how he works, and it works for him.

MS: He says to himself, “Well, I’ve got an idea for this panel,

I’m the type that has to start the first step in the upper left-

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design

hand corner of the first page, and keep going with that step until I finish in the bottom right-hand corner of the last page.

JL: I’ve noticed that even in your layouts, you place your

JL: Would you thumbnail an entire 20–25 page story for

word balloons or leave spots for placement.

one of your own scripts?

MS: For me the word balloons are part of the art. Some peo-

MS: Yes.

ple don’t seem to get that.

JL: You’d do all the thumbnails first?

JL: Yes, that’s a common error when people start out.

MS: Absolutely. Even when I’m working for myself, I write an

They want to fill each box or panel with the image. They

entire script before I start to draw it. I need to have it down on

don’t realize that balloons can take up a lot of space, de-

paper because I think of so many different ways of telling it

pending on the amount of dialogue in the script.

while I’m writing. The same thing occurs in the thumbnail

MS: Right. And I want to make sure that I place the balloons

stage. The process makes me think of other ways to tell the story.

so that they’re readable within the composition. It’s not like,

There is always a degree of refinement and improvement.

“I’ve got some space here in the bottom right-hand corner so

I want to do all the thumbnails at once because I’m working on

I’m going to stick a balloon down here.” No one would be able

a single story, not a collection of individual images. Everything

to find it.

should work together. After I do all the thumbnails, the rest of

The white space on a page is really important. I think it’s a

my work consists of revisions to the initial ideas I had when I

generational thing. I don’t want to say it’s trendy, but it’s much

read the script.

more acceptable now than it used to be to see an all-black back-

A detail from the thumbnails. Even at this stage, Mark is very concerned with balloon placement and the distribution of black and white within the panel.

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ground instead of traditional white. All-black can drive me

you can get away with that.

nuts. It’s just very claustrophobic—it doesn’t allow space to

JL: Yeah, I don’t think readers are disappointed as long as

breathe. I try to leave a lot of white in the background, espe-

you deliver what you promise. Obviously, they would love

cially since I work mostly in black and white. I have a lot of

to see something every month, but…

heavy black, so I think my stuff needs to have a lot of white

MS: Well, readers are different. I think the age group that

space to breathe.

was reading my Superman material pretty much needed a

JL: I’m looking at your final panels and your thumbnails.

monthly hit. I remember waiting for the Fantastic Four every

Your black/white ratio is about 50:50 or 60:40 in the areas

month when I was a kid. I was really upset that they couldn’t

where you use heavy black. You always create nice nega-

get it out every two weeks. I think the age group that reads my

tive shapes and patterns.

material is somewhat older.

MS: Well, I try. The older I get, the more I realize how im-

JL: Right. And they’re willing to wait.

portant design is. Xenozoic Tales was reproduced in black and white, so I was always thinking about how to get that balance. I didn’t have color to fall back on. I have become more and more

drawing surfaces

aware that graphic design, the fundamental balance of black and white, is so important.

JL: You work at a big desk, don’t you? Not a drawing table. MS: I work on an old architect’s desk from Bethlehem Steel. It

scheduling

has a large open space, most of which is filled up with my lightbox and my tools. On top of that, I can set up a drawing board

JL: When you’re working on a full story from one of your

at an angle.

own scripts, how much time do you give yourself to com-

JL: Yeah, you have a drawing board. It looks like you’ve

plete it? How long does it take for you to do an issue?

had the drawing board for years.

MS: That’s where I got into trouble, John. It got way out of

MS: I think I’ve had it since I was thirteen. I put a box under

hand. It took me a year to do each of the last couple issues. This

it to prop it at an angle on top of the desk. It’s unlike working

was also when our cartoon show was in production, so I was

at a big drafting table because I can move it back and forth be-

very distracted by that. I got sidetracked. Now, I look back and

tween my lap and the desk. I like the versatility.

see too much art that wasn’t important to telling the story. I don’t consider myself a very good example. [Laughter.] It took

JL: Then you have a second drawing board that you hold

me way too long—longer than necessary.

in your lap at a 45 degree angle.

JL: If you were financially able to go back to working ex-

MS: Yes. I have a piece of Masonite. I have the desk, the draw-

clusively on your own stories, would you force a deadline

ing board angled on top of that, and finally, the Masonite

upon yourself?

board. It’s just lighter and allows more portability. If I want to move into another room, I take it with me.

MS: I would have to. I think I’d aim for three-month periods

JL: Did you cut the Masonite board yourself?

so I could get out four issues a year. That’s about what I think you need to keep the reader’s interest. Even that time length is

MS: Yes. I also save the backing from art paper tablets and

stretching things. But if publishers know they’re going to get

paste two of them together. That gives me a nice, thick surface

four issues, and you’re not promising them any more, I think

that lasts several years before it wears out.

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In his home studio, Mark works at a large office desk with a drawing board and small lightbox on top. He keeps his reference library and supplies within easy reach, as well as a Luxo light for drawing and inking.

reference materials

searching. By sheer luck, I found a picture that was really close to my original comp idea. The picture is in the public domain,

JL: By the time you get to your thumbnails, you have a

so instead of trying to draw it all by hand, I could trace it, make

pretty clear idea of what you want. Do you gather refer-

changes here and there, and simplify it as needed.

ence material prior to drawing the thumbnails, or in tan-

JL: So you have a personal collection of reference books?

dem with them?

MS: Absolutely. That’s one place I put my money. I also use

MS: Kind of in tandem. As I’m doing the thumbnails, I’m

the Internet for references. I seldom have to go to the library.

thinking, “Oh, I know where I can reference something that

In fact, I rarely leave my house for reference material. It’s all

will be helpful in this panel.”

here—from formal encyclopedias to the weird, little specialized

A very specific example in this script is the city scene. The script

thing you get from Bud Plant. Once I know what type of story

called for an actual city scene. Luckily, I have books depicting

I want to tell, I can always find relevant references.

the appropriate era for the story. So once I put the basic comp

Horseback riding, swords, whatever the subject, I’ve got it all.

in the thumbnail, I immediately went to those books and started

The books are tax deductible. It’s good to have books around so

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you don’t have to spend time looking for resources. JL: You’ve amassed a pretty big collection of books. Has the Internet changed the way you purchase books? MS: It has. I go to Bud Plant a lot and I use abebooks.com a lot. JL: I think that’s one of the things that makes people like us feel better about living anywhere now. MS: Absolutely. The Internet has revolutionized the search for references. It really came in handy when I needed to draw a smashed-up car—an older model—and I didn’t have anything in my references on that. I probably had it somewhere, but I couldn’t find it so I did a quick search for “car wrecks” on the Internet. JL: And you found it. MS: Heavens, yes. There are all sorts of sick things out there. [Laughter.] But I was able to find the material I wanted. JL: Are you talking about the car crash in this script or in a previous assignment? MS: This was from a previous job, but I downloaded and saved them, so I was able to use them for the car wreck in here.

drawing the page JL: Once you complete your thumbnails and go to the board, you work double-sized, don’t you? MS: Yes. My live area is 12" x 18". JL: Is that the way you’ve always worked? MS: I’ve experimented with different sizes, but I’ve found smaller areas don’t save any time and they just make me feel more cramped. Schultz is a great collector of photographic reference books. Here, he

JL: So the larger area opens up the artwork and allows you

enlarges an image of Chicago from his collection and transfers it to a

to put in the detail that you want to include.

Bristol board using his lightbox.

MS: Even more important, it lets me leave the space I want to leave. The figures don’t tend to crowd the surrounding space in

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the panel as much.

ing paper so your hand doesn’t go through them.

JL: And you work on Strathmore 500 Plate Bristol?

MS: I do that if I’m going back to work on something and my hand’s going to have to lie on areas I’ve already penciled.

MS: Yes, that’s plate. I go back and forth between plate and

That’s both to keep the work from smudging and to protect

what they call the “kid finish,” which over the years has gotten

against grease and sludge—which, as you know, just makes it

progressively rougher.

hell to ink.

When I started back in the mid-eighties, the plate was too thick

JL: Oh, you should try using one of those dry erase pads

for me. It had almost no tooth at all; it was almost slick. At

that architects use. What they resemble most is a resin

that time the kid was just right. I don’t know if it’s to save

bag that you would use in sports. They’re great.

money, but they’ve made it rougher over the years.

You can tamp the pad and then kind of rub your drawing

JL: Now the plate has a little bit of tooth.

area. It will lift up all the excess graphite without erasing

MS: It didn’t have that fifteen years ago, but I like it now.

the image. It’s awesome—especially if you’ve ever had to

When I want to, I can drag a dry brush across it and leave a

ink someone who used a really loose pencil.

pattern like a grain. It’s almost like dragging a grease pencil.

I once inked a guy who used something that looked like

I use the rougher kid surface with that type of technique to get

gray butter on the page. I just tamped it down with the

certain effects.

dry erase pad and it came up without smearing. Unlike a

JL: In the initial stage on the board, do you still use an

kneaded eraser, which can unintentionally lift up the

HB, or do you switch to a slighter harder lead?

image, this just removes the excess graphite.

MS: Slightly harder. I usually use an H, but I go back and

MS: I had a problem in the past when there was grease on the

forth. I go to the slightly softer HB if I’m working something

page and I had trouble inking. I used talcum powder. Sounds

over and I’ve had to erase a couple of times, because the paper

like the same thing, but the pad would be a lot more convenient.

starts to get worn out. For example, if I haven’t been able to get

JL: Do you just sprinkle the talcum powder on? What do

someone’s face just right, the repeated use of the pencil hardens

you take it off with?

the surface. Otherwise, I use an H.

MS: I just sprinkle it on and use a really, really light brush

JL: You said you’re very methodical. Do you actually start

to brush it off. But the resin bag is better because talcum

with page one, panel one, work on that until it’s finished,

powder isn’t the greatest thing to have swimming around

and then move on to panel two?

in the pencils.

MS: I do. That has to do with the fact that I’m really messy

JL: So, you use the tracing paper when you want to

and I don’t want to smudge the pencil any more than I have to.

change something. Once you’re finished with the tracing

JL: You use tracing paper on top of the panels. Is that how

paper on a specific panel, do you make a photocopy of it

you rough in each panel at first?

so you can see it better on the lightbox?

MS: It depends. Sometimes I get it right on the first attempt

MS: I only use the photocopier if I want to change the size of

and can go straight to board. I use tracing paper when I don’t

an image. For instance, I basically worked one image out on

accomplish what I want right away. I don’t want to screw up

tracing paper and was happy with the composition. But I

the board, so I work it out on the tracing paper.

wanted to reduce it a little to make more room for everything to breathe. So I just took it down about ten percent.

JL: I also noticed that you cover finished panels with trac-

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Mark refines a composition on tracing paper.

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JL: So if you get it completely right on tracing paper, do

pod comes down. But you decided to alter that quite dras-

you just lightbox the tracing paper?

tically on the final page.

MS: Absolutely. I keep it as simple as possible.

MS: Right. That one gave me some trouble.

JL: When you working at your board, you use a little

JL: What didn’t you like about the initial composition?

hand-held mirror. Is that to check proportions and view

What made you decide to change it? And what kind of

the face in a different way?

process did you go through to come up with the new image?

MS: Right. That’s a major reason. I also use it if I’m draw-

MS: The image I had bored me. It looked good at the size of a

ing expressions. I look at my own face. I set up the light and

thumbnail, but when I started to play around with it upsized,

the mirror look at my face or hands to check the lighting.

the relationship between the size of the Neanderthal and the

But mostly I use it to look at a drawing in reverse, to make

size of the falling ship was not quite right. The pod has to be big

sure the eyes aren’t sliding off the side of the face and the nose

enough to be recognizable, but you want to feel that it’s differ-

isn’t crooked.

ent from the big spaceship from which it detached. The script also called for a hint that these cavemen are hiding in the grass

JL: You use the mirror quite a bit, right?

and watching the ship come down. I had to solve the problem of

MS: Absolutely. I’m always checking myself with that. It’s one

how to show grass tall enough to hide an anthropoid figure, but

of my major tools.

still imply something crouching in the middle of that grass and looking up at the falling ship. I played around with that a lot, and I just couldn’t make it work. Eventually, I compromised by showing a group of cavemen in the tall grass, not so much hid-

storytelling

ing as watching at a distance. JL: Sometimes you change your composition when you

JL: I think the size relationship works better in the final

move from the tracing paper to the board. For example,

version. It’s more effective to show a group of people than

you sketched the last panel on page one in such a way that

to show just two. Also, you’re able to introduce the

the Neanderthals are crowding the panel while the rocket

spears, which are not only a great design element; they

Working double-sized on 12" x 18" Bristol board, Mark uses a mechani-

When Mark is happy with an image, he transfers it to the final board.

cal pencil with H lead to finish one panel at a time.

He often covers previously drawn panels with tracing paper to avoid smudging them with his hand.

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Mark keeps a small, hand-held mirror on hand to make sure his drawings look correct in reverse. This is a good way to check the proportions and placement of facial features.

also prepare us for the events on page two. The alien gets

put the ship a little farther in the distance, moving the

whacked with the spear, instead of the tomahawk-type

travelers away from it.

weapon in the earlier version.

MS: This panel got to do a lot of the storytelling without much

MS: That’s a good point, too. But to be honest with you, I doubt

overt explanation. It was important, to keep the reader from

I thought it out that far. It’s one of those subconscious things. I

thinking, “Why don’t they just crawl back into their spaceship

didn’t think about it, but you’re right: It is better storytelling

and fly away if there’s danger?”

to introduce those spears.

Mark also specified in the script that this is actually not a ship but

JL: Right; they link up the action. We know exactly who’s

an escape pod. It’s very clear that the pod can’t be re-launched. I

hitting who on page two.

hope I pulled that off by showing a lot of smoke pouring out of it. The smoke also made a great compositional element.

MS: Right.

JL: It works, and that sweep of smoke provides a nice

JL: Moving to page two, in panel one; I see that you’ve

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sense of direction. Then, the alien is hit with the spear in

MS: Oh, good. This is another one of those panels that I don’t feel

the second panel. In the third, you get closer to see the re-

was as successful as I wanted it to be. I was originally going to

actions on the other two faces as he falls. We don’t need

show him sniffing. The action was going to be very clear, with his

to see the alien go down, because we’ve seen what’s hap-

nose all wrinkled and her pulling away. But it was just too much

pening in the second panel. So you just show the gesture

to try to convey in the midst of the attack, with the male figure

of his hand.

desperately trying to figure out how his time machine works, and the woman cradling the wounded alien. The poor scapegoat

MS: I decided there were enough figures on the page and we

alien—he gets beat up in every other panel. [Laughter.]

had the information we needed. So I centered on the reaction of the other characters.

I also set up a problem for myself that wasn’t indicated in the script. Just because of the type of story it is and the type of look

JL: Right—and I think that’s more effective.

I wanted from the beginning, I put sidearms on these charac-

Panel five is interesting. You sketched a longer shot in

ters. So when I got to the panel where they’re being attacked, I

which the girl was on top of the alien, the guy was fidg-

thought to myself, “Wouldn’t they be trying to resist with their

eting with his time device and a Neanderthal with a

sidearms instead of just sitting there?” Again, this problem was

hatchet was coming in on the girl. But you pulled in much

of my own making. I decided I had to have the woman try to

closer for your final panel. I assume you wanted to use

draw the gun. That was just another thing that I had to try to

facial shots to show the reaction.

fit into that panel.

MS: You’re right. The important action at that point is the fact

JL: But that worked out well, right?

that he’s activating the time device, because up to that moment

MS: Yeah, but it took a lot of effort. This was probably the sin-

we’ve just seen him fooling around with it. Now he finally gets it

gle most difficult panel in the story. And again, I don’t feel that

working. This is the high point of tension in the story. In order to

I got it 100 percent the way I wanted it. But I think it still

center on him, the reader has to see what he’s doing very clearly.

worked out okay within the flow of the story.

If I were being more lackadaisical about this, it would have

JL: Yeah, I think so. On to page three.

been easier to make that a much bigger panel, and make the next panel a sliver by comparison. But by keeping everything

Panel one stayed pretty much the same as your roughs. In

the same size, I forced myself to think in other directions.

panel two you have that really nice reference shot. Nice photograph!

My first reaction was to try to do this with full figures that were clearly visible within the frame of the panel. But again, because

MS: Oh, that just worked out. I was just exceptionally lucky to

there’s a lot going on, reducing the size of the panel and keeping

find something that worked so well.

a strict format made me center in and get right inside the fight.

JL: So when you use a photograph like that as reference,

JL: At this point in the script, Mark called for the Nean-

do you photocopy it to the size you want and then light-

derthal to sniff the woman, and for her to recoil in dis-

box it to simplify?

gust. In your initial thumbnail, his intention appears to

MS: Right.

be violent. He has his weapon up in the air as if he’s about to attack her, whereas in the final he’s more curious. He

JL: The shadows are a really nice design touch.

still seems threatening with the weapon in his hand, but

MS: They were in the photo. I simplified it quite a bit, but that

he’s obviously just grabbing her arm, like he’s interested

pattern of light and shadow was all there.

in the woman.

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JL: It’s great because it really frames those figures nicely.

In panel three, you had a slightly more dramatic angle in the thumbnails. You de-emphasized the angle in the final

MS: Exactly! It’s just perfect. And it’s really important to em-

drawings. Since you established the background so well,

phasize that if you’re going to take photographs, you have to

you could cut away to the figures and the action.

use them just for inspiration and change them up. This image happened to be in the public domain, but you don’t want to

MS: I find that the environment of a story is another character.

take too many risks. For example, National Geographic

It’s really important to establish that character. I get bored with

magazines are great sources, but I know they’re pretty touchy

stories that are so centered on the figures that it’s obvious the

about artists lifting their images for illustrations. If you’re

artist doesn’t care about anything else. On the other hand, when

going to lift something by copying, take it out of the context of

you get to the action, it’s time to clear out any extraneous mate-

the original photograph.

rial and center on the actual situation threatening our heroes.

JL: Right. You have to alter it in some way.

JL: You’re careful to present that information in context first, right?

MS: At least reverse it or something. [Laughter.]

MS: Oh, absolutely. It’s just like a well-done movie. You set up

JL: Anything that Dover has, then, is public domain. Is

the establishing shot so that people know where the characters

that correct?

stand in relationship to the world around them and what is

MS: That’s my understanding. They don’t do original work.

going to threaten them.

JL: Right, and that’s how they can keep their prices down.

JL: I like the storytelling choices you made in panel four.

They’re great; the prices are very low.

We have the sound effects of the crash, plus graphics that

Mark changes the composition in the last panel on page one to reflect a vast savanna and a large tribe.

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Thumbnails

Pencils

From thumbnails to final drawings: a. Mark makes the figures more prominent and establishes a distance between them and the ship. b. He reduces the alien to a hand in the foreground to simplify the panel. c. He zooms in on the action to heighten the tension of the scene and focus on the characters’ expressions.

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make the action urgent but ambiguous. We’re not sure

never developed a really good feeling for them.

they’ve escaped, which is good.

JL: So, you would ink all of this—even the architecture in

In the next panel, you show the cop and the man ex-

panel two of page three—with a brush?

plaining what’s going on. And then, in the final panel, you

MS: Yeah. And splitting the hairs a little bit to do a dry brush

have an entirely different composition.

effect accomplishes a sense of atmosphere and perspective. For

MS: Oh yeah. Well, Mark’s script called for the artist to draw

example, I would do those skyscrapers in the far distance with

whatever final situation he wanted and I’ll make any excuse to

a dry brush.

draw dinosaurs. [Laughter.] My original thought was, okay, they

JL: When you use a nib for a straight step or something,

go back to some distant, prehistoric time. In the thumbnail, I had

what do you use?

them up to their waists in the swamp with some dinosaurs me-

MS: Probably a Hunt 107.

andering in the background. But by the time I got to the final image, it evolved into something that I thought was a lot funnier.

JL: The inflexible one.

I was trying to get more than just one idea into that final panel.

MS: That gives me straight edges. I also have the more cop-

Not only have they jumped though time once again, but since the

pery-looking ones that have a little more flex. I forget what

alien guy has been beaten up so many times throughout the story,

they’re called because seldom I use them.

I decided he should be eaten in the end. I hope it’s clear that those are the feet of the alien guy sticking out of the dinosaur’s mouth.

JL: I think that’s the 108.

JL: Oh yeah. I think it’s clear. It’s been just the three of

MS: I’ll go back and forth with whatever I have, because I use

them throughout the story, and now there are only two.

it so little.

And also the device is now falling and it’s no longer of use

JL: How long will a brush typically last?

to them. They seem kind of stuck there. The composi-

MS: Quite a while. I’ll get most of a twenty-page issue out of

tion’s nice, and it’s funny. It’s dark humor, in a way.

one. And I do a lot of inking and a lot of dry brush, which is

MS: Well, it’s Three Stooges humor. That poor alien guy.

tough on it. That eats it up. But I won’t throw the brush out

[Laughter.]

after it loses its point… JL: Because you can use it for dry brush later, right?

inking and reproduction

MS: I can use it for dry brush, and I can also flatten it out more for a whole different technique that I find very useful.

JL: What tools do you use when you’re inking your own work?

JL: What ink do you use?

MS: I use a Winsor Newton Series 7, usually a No. 3 brush.

MS: I just use the Higgins regular, because I tend to water my

I like No. 3 because it’s a little broader and I can get a little

ink down a little bit to make it flow better. I don’t like inking

more ink on it.

straight out of the bottle.

JL: Do you use nibs at all?

JL: So you don’t mind the washed-out look?

MS: Rarely. I’ve never gotten used to them. I may use nibs

MS: I actually like the fact that there’s some tonal variety.

when I have to do an absolutely straight line. If I’m doing stair

JL: Sure. Also, when you scan a bitmap, it ends up solid

steps and I want them to all be parallel, I’ll use nibs. But I’ve

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Thumbnails

Pencils

From thumbnails to final drawings: a. Mark casts heavy shadows on the buildings to highlight the figures and suggest a specific time of day. b. He swirls the sound effects to heighten the sense of action and confusion. c. He creates a dynamic, vertical pattern of motion to lead the eye off the page.

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Having already established the setting (Chicago) in the second panel of page three, Mark eliminates it from the third panel to increase the action and save room for word balloons.

black anyway, right?

MS: When Kitchen Sink and Dark Horse reproduce my work, they always do it so the tonal stuff comes out since it’s black-

MS: Right. But I’ve never done that. I only scan for my own

and-white. If I knew color was going to be added, I’d want it

archives, and I set the scanner at either black-and-white or color.

to be reproduced with a much simpler graphic look. But because

JL: So you can get that variety in tone.

my work has almost always been for black-and-white repro-

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duction, I’ve developed a technique in which the tonality is part

I think it’s a good idea for someone new to the industry

of the final art.

to try to put out his or her own book. In your case, it took off, you got recognized for it, and now you get to do a lot

JL: Do they always reproduce it correctly?

of the work you want.

MS: Well, no; I have to talk to them a lot and make sure.

MS: Yes. I try to push people to do their own books, no matter

[Laughter.] It depends. I’ve done covers for people who were very

what their specific interests are. There are advantages to work-

good at understanding what I wanted, and others who basically

ing with the mainstream and there are advantages to working

nodded their heads and then did whatever they wanted to. Then,

with self-publishing or alternative publishers. And I think it’s

a lot of the dry brush and or tonals disappear or fill with black.

best to try to maintain a balance between both worlds and not

JL: Dry brush would be especially hard to pick up, right?

to get too comfortable.

MS: Yeah. To be honest, my stuff is a bitch to reproduce. And

There’s always the trap of, “Well, I’m making good money

it’s only a bitch because it’s not common these days. When there

doing this. I’m going to stick with what works and stop grow-

was a big market for black-and-white illustration—up through

ing.” It’s sad to see so many talented people stop taking risks.

the thirties, I’d say—dry brush techniques, gray tones, and

Of course, we’d all like to do whatever we want in alternative

grease or conte pencils were common. They managed to repro-

publishing, but it’s tough to make a living at that without other

duce those all the time. Now with the increased need for speed,

income. So it’s a balancing act. In the best of all possible careers,

reproduction techniques just aren’t as specific as they used to be.

I think you can go back and forth. That’s what I’ve tried to do.

JL: And it’s much cheaper to do black-and-white instead

JL: And again, it really depends on the amount of time it

of picking up tonal variation.

takes you. For you it’s going to be a labor of love and very

MS: Some people tend to be sympathetic and others aren’t. Be-

time-intensive. And then there are artists like Kyle Baker,

cause people know what I do now, I tend to get hired by people

who’s very gestural and very fast. He’s seems able to do his

that are sympathetic to the type of stuff I do.

work easily and generate a lot of income.

For example, the people who did the Conan book from Wan-

Do you have any other advice for new artists?

dering Star jumped through hoops and went through fire to

MS: Comics are all about storytelling, and to tell compelling

get my illustrations reproduced incredibly well. I couldn’t believe

stories you need to communicate very clearly. Don’t take your

the job they did. But they had to go back to the printer three

readers for granted—don’t assume that they understand all the

times to get what they wanted.

nuances of sequential language that you’ve picked up from years of reading comics. It’s well and good to serve a readership that’s already in place, but it’s also important to reach out to people

advice

without experience reading comics.

JL: You are a great example because you used your own

If you want to expand your audience beyond the usual list of

book to showcase your unique style of work. New artists

hardcore aficionados, consider yourself a language teacher and

need to realize that when they first put their foot in the

don’t assume all your readers are as interested in sophisticated

door of mainstream comics, they’re setting the industry’s

showmanship as you may be. Technical tricks should never get

expectations for the rest of their careers. They can get

in the way of the reader comprehending the story. Keep your de-

stuck with a certain style or expectation.

sign and storytelling as simple and inviting as possible—no more complex than necessary.

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Mark Schultz’ Time Troubling

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Chris Brunner

Christopher Brunner was born in 1978 and raised in Jamesville, New York. He attended art school in Savannah, Georgia, and moved on when homework and professional work began to overlap. Though a cartoonist at heart, Chris has poured himself into illustrating, writing, coloring, lettering, storyboards, toy design, graphic design, fashion design, concept art, and mixtape covers. He's put his skills to use for Image, Dark Horse, Marvel and DC Comics; Lucasfilm, Sony, Disney, Nike, Nickelodeon, the NBA, and Upper Deck entertainment. While the process doesn't always come easy, he doesn’t really think of it as "work.”

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working chris brunner methods

script

and events, and I look at the writer’s intention. Once I’ve drawn out every panel, I move to a separate piece of

John Lowe: What’s the first thing you do when you re-

paper and try and forget about the script altogether. I just let

ceive a new script?

the story grow organically from there. Panels get lost, shots get

Chris Brunner: I read the script and try to see it in my head.

changed, and stuff gets moved around. I just keep massaging

Some scripts just click at some point, and the light bulb goes on.

until it seems to flow well. And that’s definitely an intuitive

When that happens, I just go to the side of the script and do a

thing. In hindsight I can explain logical reasons why I did this

little doodle of the idea. I try to get the shots that I want in

or that, but at the time I’m not thinking about the “why.” An

there first. Then, out of respect for the writer, I draw out every

idea just pops into my head and I go with it.

shot the way they asked for it, just to see. Because once I get into the process, I’m going to hijack everything. I’m going to run it over.

thumbnails

JL: So you’ll literally draw everything the script asks for,

JL: You read the script, make notes, and then do your

just out of consideration for the writer, even though you

thumbnails. What did you use to do these thumbnails?

know you may not use some shots?

CB: Just pencils and a Pigma pen. I think there were four

CB: I know I won’t want to use some shots. I respect writing

thumbnails to one page of typing paper. Between the script and

very much, but I don’t think the standard comic script that’s

those thumbnails, there is also a no-man’s-land: a couple of

written panel-by-panel is the best way to work. I think that’s

pieces of paper onto which I just vomit panel shapes and ideas.

just the way the industry fool-proofs things. A more natural

Eventually, everything starts to gel and come together, like lit-

script would just be a description of events with dialogue. Since

tle sequences or arrangements on a page.

the storytelling is visual, I think the person with the best visual instincts should be the one dictating the storytelling. So I’ll do

My thumbnails are really small. I actually do thumbnails so

what the writer asked for first, but after that I stop reading

small that I really can’t draw them. I think the goal of the

the visual descriptions altogether. I just stay with the dialogue

thumbnail is to forget about the drawing part. It’s much more

Chris begins his storytelling process by sketching thumbnails with a no. 2 pencil.

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Chris sketches out panel compositions and arrangements on sheets of typing paper.

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chris brunner

Having worked out the storytelling details, Chris draws his final thumbnails in no. 2 pencil, then inks them with Pigma pens. Four pages of thumbnails fit on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.

like a diagram. I go over these pages and draw them almost

to be is very important.

like a flowchart, just with arrows and outlines of objects. The

JL: What pencil do you use—just a no. 2 pencil?

thumbnails are like a diagram of the story. I’m diagramming it so all the shapes point in a certain direction. Black has a lot

CB: Yeah. I’m really not precious about supplies at all. I use the

of weight, so figuring out exactly where I want black and white

Pigma pens, but that’s because I can abuse the hell out of them.

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Chris enlarges the images and transfers them using his lightbox.

I like jamming them into the paper and mashing them around.

at 150 percent or something like that. I put them on the lightbox with some tracing paper and drew over them really tightly

JL: What size Pigma pen do you use for the thumbnails?

with a No. 2 pencil.

CB: It’s a two or three.

That’s the way I worked then. Now I actually do the blueline thing, even with thumbnails. I use the thumbnail as the rough for the drawing. I try to fill in the shapes with my

drawing

drawing, as if to bring the thumbnail more into focus. If the thumbnails are photographs out of focus, now I’m trying to

JL: Your next step with this script was to switch to an-

focus the lens to reveal eyes, clothing, and other details. The

other sheet of 8.5" x 11" typing paper for your drawings.

thumbnails are like the diagram and the pencils should be

Is that correct?

more like a cartoon. I drew the pencils for this a whole lot

CB: The drawings on those sheets of paper were a little smaller

tighter than I would now.

than the paper. I think they were about double or triple the size of the thumbnails. I just took them to Kinko’s and copied them

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He scans each page at 300 dpi, converts it to a non-photo blue image in Photoshop, enlarges it to its final size, and uses a wide-format printer to print it onto Bristol board.

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photoshop JL: Once you got these pencils finished, you scanned them into the computer, is that correct? CB: I scanned them in at 300 dpi and cleaned them up a bit. JL: Once the pencils were scanned in, then you opened them in Photoshop and enlarged the images to the standard size. CB: Yeah, I have a file of a template in Photoshop that’s the exact dimensions of the page, so I can print it out at any size

To drop out the lighter pencil work that he doesn’t need, Chris adjusts

and keep the proportions the same.

the light, middle, and dark values of the drawing using the “Levels” tool under the “Image/Adjustments” menu in Photoshop.

JL: You told me that you had a sequence set up to change all the lines to non-photo blue. Do you remember that? CB: Yeah, there are a lot of different ways to do it in Photoshop. I tried to get the image as dark as possible and toggle the contrast to eliminate as much gray as I could. Then I put a layer on top of that and applied non-photo blue with the “paintbucket” tool. On my screen, the C is 15 and I think the Y is 2. Then I changed the layer mode from “normal" to “hard” light. That shift turns all the black into non-photo blue. JL: So you print that out on Bristol board? CB: Yes.

For inking purposes, the linework will be printed out as non-photo blue. On a layer above the drawing, Chris fills the canvas with 15 percent cyan and 2 per-

JL: What printer do you use?

cent yellow. He then changes the layer mode to “Hard Light.”

CB: It’s an HP 9800 Deskjet. You might need a printer with a rear-feed to handle the thick stock paper and size.

inking JL: Now you start inking? CB: Yeah. The inking stage is really just a process of making it pretty. The inking is all improvisation. All the important information is already there, and it’s time to have fun and draw. It’s like a doodle. The linework is now ready to be printed onto Bristol board using a

JL: When you did these pages, your inking tool of choice

wide-format color printer. From there, the inking stage begins.

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was a Micron. Do you use more brushes now? CB: Whatever I can get my hands on. I use a brush when it’s called for. For me, a brush does certain things well, and other things not so well. I can’t really control a brush well. I’ve got a short time on this planet and I don’t have time to master a brush the way that Mark Schultz has. I try to pick the focus and draw that really well. For everything that doesn’t count, I simplify, simplify, simplify. That focuses the reader’s eye. When you look at something that’s perfectly rendered with a tiny pen and detail, your eye goes to that. Your eye will not go to something that has no detail. If you don’t want somebody to pay attention to something, then don’t pay attention to it when you draw it. Spend as little time as you have to getting it done. If the city in the background is a given and you’re not really supposed to pay attention to it, render it completely differently than the way I rendered it in this story. Here, the impression of a city is important to the shot. But if you’re just drawing two characters that live in Chicago and are used to city, then drop the detail. Make Chicago geometric; just use boxes. Basically, I just try to capture the shadows. I get the light and dark; not the contour. Contour drawing calls attention to itself, so I only do that when I want to call attention to something.

storytelling JL: You obviously put a lot of thought into storytelling. In the process, you changed some things from the script. One of the things you altered is on page one. It’s scripted as an over-the-shoulder view of a Neanderthal as the escape pod crashes into the savanna. CB: That was a spot I wanted to play around with a little more. I generally try to make sure each scene has its own page. I think of the page as its own paragraph or something. In this case, I didn’t see the landing as the most important sequence on the first page. I felt like I was trying to jam it in and I didn’t know how

Chris inks all his drawings for this script with Pigma Micron markers. He uses the occasional Sharpie to add variety and fill large black areas.

to make it work. The tension that you’re supposed to get in the second page, where you see one of the cavemen and the ship

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crashes, didn’t seem natural to me. When you turn the page,

straddle the entrance to a separate room of some kind.

you’ve already seen the cavemen. You already know they’re

By pulling out in panel five, you establish that the char-

around. So I just wanted to imply the ship crashing. On page

acters are in the escape pod, and you show the outside ac-

one, I have it heading towards the planet. Then on page two,

tion through the pod’s window. It’s very frenetic and

it’s on the ground in smoke. I think that’s a small enough leap

quick. That little pod is dislodging from the other ship,

that the reader can make it without really skipping a beat.

which is just about to be smashed by a meteor. The arc that you have of the little pod going down toward the

JL: So if each page is like a paragraph, then the first page

Earth almost looks like a motion line for the other direc-

is all about fleeing imminent danger.

tion, in which the ship is exploding.

CB: Right. Another thing I should mention is that I always

CB: Right. I think what makes that shot work is that you see

have trouble with space on a page. I can never make it open up

the ship, and then something hops right out of it. I’ve essen-

as much as I want it to. I never feel like there’s enough room.

tially drawn an arrow that shows two things separating. In the

So I made those decisions partly out of necessity. I had to strug-

next panel they’re even more separate. They’re on opposite sides

gle to fit everything in. I just couldn’t make some of those things

of the panel.

work without being awkward. So I just had to cut. It feels re-

JL: They’ve actually reversed positions.

ally unnatural to have two scenes on one page unless it makes for more compressed storytelling.

CB: And that spatial relationship on the page tells the story

Look at something like Batman: Year One, for example.

more than a literal rendering would. I think it registers in an

There are a lot of scenes on every page, but some whole scenes

unconscious way.

are really just one panel. That works for Batman. But if I’m

JL: You’re right: as long as the separation is established,

doing a moment-to-moment thing, I prefer to include one scene

this can be drawn in many different ways and still read

or one location per page. Separate pages can register uncon-

effectively.

sciously in the reader’s mind as separate locations.

The first panel on page two is very effective at implying

JL: Everyone who did this story said that the escape pod

a spacial relationship within a relatively small panel. You

was a tricky proposition. Each of you came up with a

create an ominous and creepy atmosphere without show-

completely different solution for that problem.

ing the Neanderthals. You do this by drawing the figures

You address this in the fourth panel by having the woman

very small in the space. The large element is actually the

The script calls for a shot of the falling pod as seen from over the shoulder of a Neanderthal, but Chris opts for a space view. He uses grease pencil to create the planet’s texture.

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dragonfly. It’s almost as big as the spaceship, and it kind of mimics the shape of the ship as well. CB: Yes, my intention with the dragonfly was to imply danger. The dragonfly is huge and the people are small, which could imply that they’re being hunted. In this panel, the mood of danger is more important than the source of that danger. That’s why I decided to hold off on showing the Neanderthals. I also use the dragonfly as an element to tie scenes together. I even bring it through to the next page. The dragonfly ends up traveling with them throughout the story, even through to 1930’s Chicago. Most readers might not notice it, but it keeps me interested. The dragonfly is my door into the story. JL: I think you do some things with it that the reader can’t help but notice if they read this more than once. For example, in the second panel on page two, you show a rock flying into the floating sack surrounding the baby. It’s interesting that the sixth panel, where the dragonfly is puncturing that sack, is much more menacing than the second panel. Even the baby’s expression is more terrified of the dragonfly than of the rock. CB: Yeah, that was something I had work out through the story. I’m really into science fiction, but I’ve never found cavemen or prehistoric stuff very interesting. So when I read the script, I don’t picture futuristic people being threatened by a couple of cavemen. If they have the technology to travel through time, then it’s probably safe to assume they have ray guns, too. I wanted to add some obstacles to make them seem more threatened, so I decided to make them really young and give them a baby to protect. That raises the stakes. Rocks and spears don’t really feel threatening to me, but the bug on top of the baby makes the danger more visceral. JL: Absolutely. Another way you accomplish this is with the introduction of the Neanderthals. You focus on two Neanderthals with a dog or dingo in the foreground. Everything seems to be creeping in. CB: Right. That’s another thing on the diagram. We naturally read everything left to right if we’re English-speaking, but I’ve

Chris introduces a dragonfly, a special storytelling element that follows the time travelers and links each scene to the next.

always had trouble with that. I have a wide middle panel and I

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want to force you to go the other way. I don’t want this whole

happens. The best way to succeed is to just have an idea pop into

page to go left to right, left to right, left to right. I want it to

your head and go with it. Don’t even think about it. If it feels

read like a “Z.” So I plot it like a dotted line coming down from

right, do it. Get rid of everything that feels wrong or uncom-

the top right corner to the bottom left. I hope that your eyes fol-

fortable. That’s what I do.

low the line as the cavemen increase in size. By the time you get

As I’m trying to grow the script in my head as a story, every-

to the place where I want you, you’ll find the large eyes of a

thing that feels unnatural goes. Everything that feels right

caveman looking right at you. This is all an effort to intensify

stays. Page flow just happens. My only intention is to diagram

the presence of danger.

it; to make a flowchart.

JL: Both you and Kelsey Shannon did that with this story.

JL: At the end of page two, you make a nice transition.

You managed to create an organic, flowing composition

You place two panels side-by-side with an inset panel

for the eyes to follow through the panels. On page two,

connecting them. You drop everything out so we’re just

the white space of the water runs into the dragonfly,

focusing on the push of that button before the time

whose wing overlaps into the panel with the baby. Then

transport. Didn’t you say that last panel of the charac-

the angle of the baby’s knee points down to the figures,

ters transporting took you forever because you used a

which lead to the large panel, where the eye flows

photocopy?

through the big head, the rock in the Neanderthal’s hand, and the baby. Our gaze ends up on the stretched-out fig-

CB: Yeah. I could do that with Photoshop now, but at the time

ures, which direct us back to the top of the next page. Did

I went to Kinko’s. I tried to pull the drawing and get it to do

you plan that out?

weird things on the copy machine. I improvised. I didn’t really know what I wanted it to look like until I saw it.

CB: I don’t plan anything. I think and talk about art constantly, except when I’m actually doing it. I go into a trance. It’s

JL: The inset panel is in the same position on the first

really the only time I’m not thinking, and that’s when stuff

panel of page three. And above them is the word

Chris designs patterns to lead the eye through each panel and page. On page two, he uses a Z pattern. The figures in this central panel form the diagonal crossbar, connecting the top right corner of the Z to the bottom left corner.

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“Chicago,” but you block out everything except “ago.” Was that intentional, as in “long ago?” CB: Yeah. I wonder if the audience notices it. That’s just something else that keeps me interested. I have a very limited space and I control every element. Why shouldn’t every element point in the same direction? It takes so many hours to do a page anyway; why not keep every element moving forward along with the story? You can see that I started playing with the word Chicago in the thumbnails. I think I broke it down into “Chic-a-go.” I was just trying to avoid writing out “Chicago.” That’s really obvious and it can be disruptive. But it didn’t have to be “ago.” I could have just as easily blocked out other letters. JL: Right. But I like the way it plays as a pun, as in “long ago.” It’s a much better choice than “hic.” CB: Right. It’s also a twist because they’ve just moved forward in time from even longer ago. This page also has the diagram. Starting at that inset panel, the eye follows the blacks to the right, and then falls down with the car. Once again, I’m trying to do that Z-shape storytelling across the page. At the middle horizontal tier, there’s the dragonfly to lead the eye from right to left again. Then we follow the car across the page to where it crashes. I think there’s a Norman Rockwell painting that’s really long and horizontal, with a crowd of people standing there talking. Rockwell shows them full-figure, and he moves the storytelling forward in time from left to right. We can do that with one panel. Even though it’s one shot, it doesn’t necessarily have to represent a single moment. JL: A static shot can have some motion. CB: Yeah; not just motion, but an implied sequence. Imagine a klutz on the ground on one side of a panel, and a banana peel on the other side. The action is implied. The person is on the ground because of the banana. That’s an automatic sequence. JL: When the characters appear at the school in the last panel on page three, there are two paper airplanes aiming right toward the child. They could easily be read as the

To create a transition and imply transport between pages two and three, Chris changes the background but keeps the figures in the same position. He stretches the transporting figures by moving the image over the surface of the copying machine while it scans.

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same airplane moving forward in time.

CB: Yes. And just to the left of the girl astronaut, you’ll notice another girl who’s pregnant. She is wearing a shirt with an

CB: That’s the idea. Movement is one of the ways I’m trying

arrow that points both ways: to her belly and to her face.

to get you to go from left to right. You might also notice the

JL: Yeah, and she’s looking up at the baby in the air.

girls walking out of the bathroom. I wanted to imply a sequence of someone coming into the scene, towards the center.

CB: Right.

JL: You had to choose what scenario to place them in that

JL: You also have that “Class of 2000” sign, where the last

last panel. I love that you chose a high school.

number is hidden by a support column, making the year

CB: Back when I was trying to think of ways to make these

a little ambiguous.

main characters vulnerable, I made them young. The idea of

CB: Yeah, at least we know which decade they’ve jumped into.

the baby popped into my head, and I immediately started thinking about teenage pregnancy as a very scary position for a kid

JL: You brought an amazing amount of detail into this

to be in. I don’t know if it reaches the audience, but that baby

scene. There are so many things to look at. You’ve even

has something like an umbilical cord connected to the girl.

got papers floating around the male time traveler’s thigh to show that he just arrived. Once again, that creates an

JL: It’s in an amniotic sac.

immediate atmosphere that’s anything but static. There

CB: I think bringing these characters into high school kind of

are also a lot of details that seem ubiquitous, no matter

makes them feel real and relatable, even if they are crazy sci-

when you went to school.

fi scientists from the future.

CB: Yeah, I didn’t want it to be dated if somebody were to read

JL: Right, right. They’ve come all this way, and now

this book ten years from now. In any school, in any contempo-

they’re surrounded by their peers.

rary time, you’ll find the jock, the stoner, the punks, and the

Chris accentuates the characters’ vulnerability and connects the story to its potential readers by dropping the time travelers into a busy high school hallway. Notice the T-shirt on the girl at center.

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chatty group of girls. The only thing that really messes it up is

squares.

the guy on the right with the big clunky headphones. I guess

JL: Laid out on a perspective grid.

now you would expect to see ear buds, so that bit of technology

CB: Yes, it’s in perspective. And it’s affected by light, so it reads

dates him.

as machinery. But there’s nothing specific there. I think if you

I want to point out that I drew this story three years prior to

look at Syd Mead or somebody who is really high on science fic-

this interview, and looking at it now, I think it’s over-drawn.

tion settings, you’ll see a lot of detail. But the place for that is

I think the story would be better served if it stuck closer to the

in a movie, where you can build it once and you don’t have to

thumbnails. I just had stage fright at the time and really

keep drawing it. It might also belong in a single illustration,

wanted to make this the most awesome thing possible because it

where the details really contribute something. In this case, and

was for a book.

in comics in general, I don’t think I need to be that specific. It’s

JL: Okay. Your approach would be different today. You

not important.

would worry less about the beauty of the rendering.

All the reader needs to know is that it’s a ship, not somebody’s

CB: I think that’s right.

garage. All it has to do is look futuristic.

JL: What other changes might you make in your ap-

JL: Also, someone like Syd Mead is paid to design a thing,

proach?

whereas you’re paid to tell a story. You’re just setting up an environment for the story. As long as you convey the

CB: My approach has become more and more utilitarian, sim-

idea of the environment and it looks cool, you’ve achieved

ply because comics are very time-consuming. Of any art, comics

your goal.

require the most man-hours. How many hours of your life do you want to be in a room drawing? If you can make the same

CB: Right, in this instance. But if the story is about an in-

point with fewer lines, you should. There’s definitely a school of

ventor building technology in his lab, then the specific objects

thought that simple is better across the board. I look for a mid-

really should be more thoroughly designed. In this case, that’s a

dle ground. I want to be specific with some things, like people’s

waste of time, information and space.

faces. But simplifying to the degree where you can’t read some-

Time management is an obstacle we face in comics. We have to

body’s features—that’s too much. A person’s looks or the way

create so many settings; it’s often difficult to know where to

something’s visually rendered does tell you something. But

begin. There’s not enough time to design anything to the degree

feathering? That doesn’t add anything.

that Mead would design a setting. So we have to find shortcuts.

JL: Well, these pages are beautiful. I love the crashed car

Durwin Talon helped me learn to deal with this. I did a Star

with all that detailed work. The rendering looks time-con-

Wars story set on Alderaan, which at that time had never been

suming—the casting, the implied shapes, the lights and

shown in the films. They didn’t even have concept art for it. I

darks. Just filling in those little black areas must have taken

was on a deadline and trying to tell a story of just a few pages.

forever.

I panicked. I had to design Alderaan. I had to make it cohesive.

CB: Yes, that’s made up and it did take forever. But there are

That’s a really time-consuming process that doesn’t really add

shortcuts that could have helped me complete it in less time. For

much to the story anyway. Durwin suggested that I pick a cou-

example, all the ship’s detail on the first page consists of simple

ple of shapes and just repeat them. He said if I built everything

geometric shapes. I just made shapes and kept them in perspec-

out of a few simple shapes, it would all hold together naturally

tive. I broke them down into tinier elements than was strictly nec-

and seem organic. It worked.

essary. I could have implied all that stuff. It’s just circles and

In Time Troubling, I worked with circles. I just threw circles

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Chris draws many pages of characters and technology to arrive at his final designs. Notice the circular motif, which ties the futuristic technology together throughout the story.

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everywhere. The costumes, the time-travel device, the ports on the ship—even the pod for the baby—are all basically circles. That makes everything cohesive. If I had to draw an alien set of technology, I could base it all on triangles or something, and you would automatically be able to tell the difference between the two environments. It’s an unconscious thing for the reader, and a great time saver for me. The geometry and design of a page should stay simple and speak loudly. It should be based on a couple of decisions applied across the board, and it should focus on the information that matters. For all the technology and junk I drew, what really counts here is the fact that two young parents are scared and worried.

perspective JL: In that second panel on page three, you force the perspective so that the car seems to be barreling down on the characters all of a sudden. You do something similar on the first page. You tilt and bend the angle a little bit. Why? CB: I do it to emphasize speed and scale, as well as panic and disorientation. I want you to get the emotional impression. As overwhelming as that first panel is on page three, everything is either horizontal or vertical. In the next panel, I disorient the reader by tipping the camera and forcing the perspective in an extreme way. Also, schematically, everything seems to be making a giant Vshape. This implies motion. But I accidentally did something to impede that motion. This is a good example of too much detail. That car is rendered so much that it seems still. When something’s in motion, you can’t see that much detail. If I were to draw this script today, I would drop details like the rims, the door handles, every single piece of the grill, and the little striations in the tires. I’d stick to the big shapes. JL: And you’ve done that in the silhouette of that elevated train. You’ve implied motion by making everything jagged there.

In this panel sketch, a curved perspective grid emphasizes speed and implies panic.

CB: Yeah. But the car is a really good example of time-con-

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More character sketches.

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Chris uses numerous scraps of tracing paper to perfect his drawings.

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suming stuff you don’t need to do. If you just pick up a brush

more about beautiful words and clever turns of phrase in an

and draw something quickly and sloppily, it will look like it’s

incredible sentence. Luckily, with a writer like Nabokov, it

moving. It’s a fact: The speed with which you draw something

doesn’t get in the way. But in lesser hands, it would be an ob-

indicates the speed of that object. A big, wet brushstroke moves.

stacle to the story.

It’s alive. A perfectly ruled line with a technical pen doesn’t

JL: In lesser hands, virtuosity can be a distraction. The

move. It’s slow.

story should be the principle concern. CB: Right—unless you’re a skilled virtuoso like Nabokov or Mark Schultz. Think of how few people can do a really good

style

guitar solo. Most solos are just a bunch of tweedling and speed. JL: Has your visual style changed considerably since this

To me, that’s crappy songwriting. Slash is a good soloist. You

exercise?

can hum the solo, you know what I mean? It’s still melodic; it’s not just technical ego fireworks.

CB: Yeah. I try to change it for every story. JL: Right. I think part of what you’re saying is to be true JL: Does it depend on the story?

to yourself and to keep growing. Your style is evolving;

CB: Yes. I mean, I can’t help but draw like myself. But I can

you constantly take things in, evaluate what you’re doing,

give myself parameters to make things look different from story

and apply it to your chosen art.

to story.

CB: Yeah. My tastes are completely different now than they

I’ve worked on stories that really felt like somebody else’s gig, so

were three years ago, when I did this story. My interests have

I disguised my style. I just focused on the storytelling and char-

changed and so has my taste in art. I’m responding now to sim-

acters. I got the idea across. Some were all contour, with no

pler things. For example, the style Jamie Hewlett uses to draw

black other than line. Others had a zip-a-tone all over them.

the Gorillaz is very interesting to me now, although I used to look down at such simple, cartoony stuff.

Other than that, the main change in my personal style is that I used to look at a cartoony comic and be, like, “This guy barely

I don’t spend as much time on detail anymore.

drew,” and I would feel like I didn’t get my money’s worth. I remember Kelsey Shannon and Jason Pearson each commenting on the level of detail in my Batman work. I think they

A lot of artists will say that it’s not about pretty pictures—it’s

meant it as a compliment, but I didn’t want Batman to seem

all about the story. I disagree with that. The way you draw the

tiny and detailed. I wanted things to look big and heroic. I use

picture is part of the story. It’s worth making sure that’s enjoy-

fewer lines now, both for storytelling purposes and because my

able to look at, even reflective of the story. Maybe it doesn’t need

tastes have shifted.

to be beautiful. Maybe it’s an ugly story about terrible people— then the visuals should look ugly. If you want to draw a story

I don’t really want to illustrate the story. I want to cartoon it.

about a bunch of screwed-up junkies… You know, you would-

It’s not just a matter of detail, because Mad magazine is a car-

n’t have Mark Schultz draw Trainspotting.

toon and it’s very detailed. But things like feathering are really just illustrative. I mean, it’s hair. As long as you know it’s hair,

JL: Exactly. You once mentioned a discussion with Jason

it’s fine. Done. I can communicate everything necessary with

Pearson where you said, “I want to give readers their

contour lines and shadows. Everything else is extra.

money’s worth so they have a lot of things to look at and it’s nicely put together.” Jason’s response was “No, it’s

When I read books, I prefer writers who use simpler sentences.

about the story. Be simple.”

I think it’s more direct. I don’t need virtuoso writing, which is

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CB: You can see it in the evolution of almost every artist. When we’re young, we try to throw everything we have at it, and then at some point we start weeding out the inessential. As artists, we become very aware of what’s essential and we don’t want to waste our time. But as a fan, a lot of times, it can be kind of a disappointment. There’s something really passionate about trying to throw everything, even the unnecessary, into it. Fans respond to that. There’s a reason why people often say, “I like his first album better.”

advice JL: What advice do you have for students and other emerging artists? CB: I’d say the key thing is to draw all the time. Draw from life with fresh eyes, as if you’ve never seen what’s in front of you before. Draw as much and as often as you can from your imagination. Draw the things you like to draw, but also draw what you don’t like to draw until it’s no longer a burden. The more you do these things, the more they will become a habit. You’ll begin to see the world around you in terms of composition and storytelling. Also, read a lot. Read interviews with other comic artists and illustrators. Read books on film theory and story structure. Read fiction. Read non-fiction. And when you get the chance, talk to as many other artists as you can. I’d say the key is to draw from life, with fresh eyes, as if you’ve never seen what’s in front of you before. It’s also important to be as objective and critical as possible about your work—almost brutal—if you’re trying to improve. You can’t trust what most other people tell you about your work, so develop a good, trustworthy eye. One more thing: Any kind of art can come at a tremendous personal cost. But sequential art is the decathlon of comics. In order to succeed, you have to be crazy in love with what you’re doing.

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Chris Brunner’s Time Troubling

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Kelsey Shannon

Kelsey Shannon was hatched in the year 1975. Giving in to his fear of exercise, he began to draw. After a time his hands and fingers became strong. He quickly progressed from shaky stick figures to complex robots of exacting detail. Kelsey has worked as a professional illustrator and designer for over 10 years. In that time, he has contributed to more than 40 comics, including titles like Batman Adventures and X-Men Unlimited. He has also worked in animation as a concept designer and storyboard artist on the movie Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius for DNA/Nickelodeon/Paramount and G.I. Joe: Spy Troops for Reel FX/Hasbro.

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the script John Lowe: What’s the first thing you do when you’re working from someone else’s script? Kelsey Shannon: I read it several times—once for the emotion and another for technical notes. JL: What notes did you make to yourself when you went through this script? KS: First of all, I noticed an escalating sense of danger. The script starts off with a sense of danger, then it calms down, and then it kicks back into high gear. So I made note of that. I also jotted down my ideas for what’s attacking the characters at the beginning, the type of spaceship they’re in, the costumes they’re wearing, and who the supporting characters are. And Chicago was a big thing. I did a lot of research on that location. JL: Did you make notes of references to gather before you started your thumbnails? KS: Yes.

reference JL: How did you go about gathering your references for Chicago in the thirties? What did you look for to ground those characters in that place and time? KS: Well, since everything on the first two pages was pretty much made up, I saved the Chicago stuff for the end. I wanted it to put all my energy into it at once, to keep my reference fresh in my mind while I drew. I knew the place needed to be identifiable so I started looking at photos online. I found a bridge with large monolithic towers at either end. I guess the towers house the mechanics of the drawbridge, but they had these great relief sculptures on the side of a woman’s figure and working men. There’s also a

Kelsey searches Corbis.com and Google Images for reference photos. He bases his images of Chicago on photos of the Michigan Avenue Bridge and its bas-

statue and a clock building across the street. All of that is very

relief. For authenticity, he also studies images of vehicles that pre-date the

specific and it works for the locale and period of the story. The

script’s time period. After all, not everyone in the 1930s drove brand-new cars.

characters pop up in the middle of traffic, so I was looking for

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places with heavy traffic. And that intersection is right in the

not sure if it translated well, but that was my initial idea.

middle of downtown.

JL: Did you have to go through several versions of the

JL: Right. All that congestion would make it hard for

characters?

the characters to escape the collision, forcing them to

KS: I drew one design and it stuck. The girl was a short-haired

time-travel.

sixties girl that I often draw, and I wanted the guy to be kind

KS: Yeah. The cars also needed references. I wanted to make sure

of Vulcan /Asian, with white hair. The seal took a lot of work.

that all of the cars belonged in the twenties and thirties, but I was-

I wanted to do the mother-and-child theme, but I saw Brun-

n’t limited to just those decades. When people do period work, they

ner’s version first, and he’d already done that.

tend to draw only things made in a specific decade. If it’s the thir-

I wracked my brain. I love robots, but I didn’t really want to do

ties, they’ll draw stuff that only came out in the thirties, and for-

a robot. I wanted something people could latch onto, because this

get that people still drove old cars from the twenties and 1910's

is the sympathetic character of the story. I really love anime, and

in the thirties. The truck on page three, for instance, is old.

in Neon Genesis Evangelion, they have this little pet that’s

JL: The one that’s carrying the cask on the back of it?

an alien-looking penguin. I thought that was a really good idea. Several people asked me, “Why don’t you just do a penguin?”

KS: Yeah. Which is probably bootleg alcohol.

but I didn’t want to be redundant. So I looked through animal

JL: Do you use any specific search engines when you’re

photos online, and I found a seal. It was perfect! Seals emote

looking for reference?

well. You can really get a lot of character out of them.

KS: Corbis is the best. The only problem is that the pictures

JL: They also have that sympathy factor, because they

are kind of small. Then again, I only use them for a general

don’t really have hands or arms, and there is always the

reference, not for tracing. If I can’t find what I want on Cor-

looming fear that they might be clubbed.

bis, I use Google Images. I used to go to the library, but now I

Speaking of which; the Neanderthals are great. You did a

don’t even have to leave my house. It’s all online.

lot of little character sketches to arrive at those characters.

JL: The Internet is making comic book artists even more

KS: Right. I wanted them to be a lot crazier than they ended

sedentary. It’s great.

up. I intended for the Neanderthal planet to be another di-

KS: Exactly. I can’t even use my legs anymore. [Laughter.]

mension, not Earth. I noticed that even though the script is called Time Troubling, there’s only one time jump. But I thought of it as a time/dimensional jump, taking them to old Chicago, Earth.

character design

Since I made the leap to dealing with different dimensions, I JL: What kind of inspiration did you have for the first

wanted the Neanderthals to be like toys. The same thing hap-

two pages? What did you have in mind when you started

pened with the ship. I wanted it to look like a sparrow in flight.

designing the characters?

And I only ended up with one shot of it before it explodes, so I

KS: Well, it wasn’t very specific. I wanted to give a sixties vibe

went through a lot of trouble for not very much.

to the character design and clothing. I guess I was going for an

JL: Is that typical of the process?

old-school sci-fi sort of Forbidden Planet look, but modernized with the clean aesthetic of today’s technology, which is very plas-

KS: Yeah. I end up going overboard on the design, thinking

tic and refined. I wanted to achieve a retro-modern look. I’m

that I’m going to need a lot more than I do. Later, I often re-

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Kelsey settles on retro-futuristic character designs. Instead of choosing a robot or an alien like the script suggests, he opts for a more sympathetic, anime-inspired character: a baby seal.

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Kelsey tends to draw more than strictly necessary, but he believes that all the preparation helps prevent problems later on. Few of these character sketches made it into the final artwork.

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the panels together?

alize that I could have done a lot less work. I think that’s helpful, though, because preparation is the key to pulling something

KS: Yeah.

off successfully. The more you prepare, the less trouble you have further on down the line.

JL: What size are your thumbnails?

JL: Good point. Since you over-prepare, you never get

KS: Probably 0.5"x 1" or bigger. Sometimes I just do thumb-

stuck in a rut when you’re working on the story.

nails to figure out panel layouts—a general flow of action. Sometimes I already have a concrete idea of the layout, so I just start designing the action in each panel on a piece of scrap paper. I focus on getting whatever I need out of the thumbnail process.

thumbnails

JL: So you’re not tied down to any one method. JL: Do you thumbnail the whole script so you can see all

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Kelsey draws each panel on a separate sheet of typing paper, then scans them in and arranges them in Adobe Photoshop. Notice that these panels contain backgrounds only. Kelsey will draw his figures separately and place them in their environments once they are final.

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KS: No.

out the sequences as you saw them in your head. You made a lot of small sketches on separate sheets of paper,

JL: Let’s say, for example, that you have a good idea in

and then you basically compiled them together to form

your head and you’re sketching out little thumbs of each

the story.

panel. How do you make the final decision about your panel layout?

KS: Yeah. In some cases, like on the first page, I pretty much followed the script exactly. I added one panel that shows the

KS: I don’t know. It just comes down to what’s needed to tell

characters in the pod. I noticed in the sketches that the transi-

the story. I generally try to have a foreground, middle ground,

tion from panel four to panel six didn’t translate well. Instead

and background in a story. In other words, I present a past, pres-

of just drawing a fireball, I kind of wish I’d made the pod ap-

ent, and future converging in one panel. I aim to communicate

parent so the reader would recognize it coming out of the ship.

where the characters are coming from, where they are, and

Still, I feel like it reads well enough.

where they’re going. This helps lead the readers through the action. I want to show the directional relation from the last panel, what’s happening now, and how they’re going to move into the

panel structure

next panel. It doesn’t always work out, but that’s my goal. But I don’t know how I decide on panel layouts. Some artists

JL: You used an interesting storytelling tool that I didn’t

have a major image that they put all the other panels around.

see from anyone else. You varied your panel structure.

I come from more of a European approach, which focuses on the

The angles graduate from very jarring

environment and how the characters move through it. It’s re-

to a bit more stable,

ally not that important to me how the panels lay on the page. JL: It looks as if you had a good idea of how to tell this story, and you were drawing

Kelsey begins with a dynamic panel structure to emphasize the action in page one.

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Harking back to his animation days, Kelsey’s favorite drawing tool is a blue Col-Erase pencil.

to very stable at the end.

JL: I think students rarely think about panel composition as its own storytelling tool. It’s great to see an example of that.

KS: That was actually an afterthought. I initially wanted to emphasize the action by having the lines of the panels go every

KS: Yes, it is very important. I didn’t always put so much stock

which way, keeping the page dynamic. The second page didn’t

in it. Traditional comics were very rigid, with gutters, square

need it as badly, so I eased away from that emphasis. On the last

panels, and a three-tier format. That’s not really necessary any-

page, everything felt very rigid. By emulating this, I empha-

more because our printing techniques are so much better and

sized the ideals of that time period and the architecture. And

more refined. We really don’t need gutters. A lot of people think

the last panel is set in nature, so I made it a round panel.

they need gutters to help read from one panel to the next, but if you draw properly, you don’t really need them. I think gut-

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perspective

ters are great for slowing a story down when necessary, but I don’t think they’re that important.

JL: Did you eyeball the sculpture you drew in panel three of the third page? The proportions are awesome.

drawing

KS: Yes, I drew out the box, and then broke it down into cubes. It’s easy to draw everything in each small cube. I’ve got to get

JL: What tools do you work with when you pencil?

things done. In comics you have got to move fast. So, yeah, it’s

KS: My weapon of choice is a blue Col-Erase pencil.

just eyeballed.

JL: 20044?

JL: You said that on page three, you forced and bent perspective to imply the motion of the cars. You did that in

KS: Yeah! Exactly.

other places as well, but we’ll just use that as an example. You learned that trick at Gaijin. Could you go into that a

JL: Mine, too.

little bit, talk about how that’s used and what it’s for?

KS: It seems to have a little more character to it. It’s not rigid,

KS: I just always noticed that Cully Hamner would have these

but it’s not as smudgy as a softer lead pencil.

great wide-angle shots where the buildings bent. And Brian

JL: Did that preference come out of your animation ex-

Stelfreeze would do that with a gun. He just bent it a little bit,

perience?

and it added so much energy. I don’t use rulers; that’s the trick.

KS: Yes. All the animators had boxes and boxes of blue pencils,

JL: So you put your horizon line in and then free-hand

and I just loved working with them. This one is just perfect.

curves around it when you’re constructing?

Honestly, I would buy these in bulk just to make sure that they

KS: Pretty much everything is freehand. I did the buildings

never get discontinued.

and structures in these pages with rulers so they’re all very

JL: Do you typically work on typing paper?

rigid, but the vehicles are all hand-done—no rulers or guides.

KS: Yeah. In fact, the Wolverine stuff I’m penciling is all on

For example I used foreshortening in panel four to emphasize

typing paper. I blow it up for the finals.

the car turning. I foreshortened the back wheels to a correct angle, but I opened up the foreshortening on the front wheels to

JL: So you do it all on typing paper at a small size, and

indicate the direction in which the car is turning.

you’re able to get tight enough to just blow it up and use that? Or do you blow it up and trace it off again?

JL: So you kind of widened it out?

KS: Well, it depends on the company I’m working with. Some

KS: Yes. You can’t do that when you’re being real strict with the

of them have set standards that require everything to be

rules. You have to feel your way through it. I still don’t have it

11" x 17" in order to fit in their files. In those cases, I have to

completely together.

conform and do what’s required.

JL: I know Cully’s very technical. Would he go about it through trial and error? Or was he more technical about it?

I developed this technique because I was tired of my sketches having more life than my finished art. I started making my

KS: I don’t know. All those guys are very mechanical. They

sketches the finished art. I just work on this crappy paper, then

use a lot of technical instruments. I’m really too lazy for all

put it into Photoshop and organize it there.

that. I tend to just fly by the seat of my pants, and I just go for the fastest way I can get something done with the maximum ef-

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fect. If you look at Adam Hughes’ or Cully’s construction work,

photocopy chain. I ended up with all the sketches that Mignola

the under-drawings indicate that they stick to very strict per-

did for the Iron Wolf book, and all of Adam Hughes’ sketch-

spective rules—all the rules in the books. I’m more of a what-

book stuff before it was online.

you-see-is-what-you-get kind of guy. Except for panel three on

JL: Adam Hughes always talks about the Andrew Loomis

page three, where I did a lot of perspective drawing, I generally

books. When you found artists that you liked, would you

eyeballed this script.

go and study them?

JL: Did you teach yourself perspective? Do you have any

KS: Not when I was young. I mean, I love those guys, although

traditional training?

I’m not a huge fan of Loomis. I’m more of a fan of guys like

KS: No. There are a couple schools of thought. One school says

Dick Sargent and Albert Doran.

that you have to learn how to draw all the things you don’t

Again, it breaks down to laziness. When I was a kid, I didn’t

want to draw in order to be a good storyteller. You have to learn

want to do all the construction drawings. When I drew char-

how to draw a vase full of flowers, a telephone, and proper

acters, I would just start at the eyeball and work my way out.

wheels. Things that you’d normally hate drawing are the very

Now I’m much more rigid, because I realize the value of all

things you have to learn how to draw well.

that stuff. So I’m actually more likely to look at other artists’

The other school of thought was introduced to me by Todd Mc-

pencils now than when I was as a kid. I now believe that any-

Farlane. He said something like, “I don’t know how to draw the

body learning to draw should look at the work of the old guys.

most accurate trash can, but I know how to draw the coolest.”

I would probably be much more advanced than I am now had

So I just sort of mix those philosophies.

I studied constructions a long time ago.

JL: Did you refer to any books in an effort to train your-

JL: When did you start drawing in earnest? Was it when

self? How did you work on life drawing?

you committed yourself to becoming a penciler?

KS: I mostly looked at what everybody else did. I looked at other

KS: It was when Jim Lee did that October issue of X-Men

artist’s construction work to see how they went about drafting it

with the giant gatefold cover; that re-release with Claremont.

all together. When I look at somebody’s pencils, or even their

A friend of mine showed me that, and I was like, “Oh, that’s

thumbnails, I can almost see their thought process. Eduardo Risso,

it! I am a comic book guy.”

for instance, is another guy who probably doesn’t even use a ruler.

JL: How old were you when you started trying to get

All his buildings, people and technology are all so loose and fun.

penciling work and putting samples together?

Adam Hughes, on the other hand, makes even his organic stuff perfect. His buildings and his perspective are absolutely perfect

KS: That issue came out in ’91. I worked for a few years and

and rigid. He’s very specific about that stuff. You’ve just got to

then I started going to all the conventions and getting whatever

learn what’s right for you, and what you want to achieve.

I could get. I wanted to get work right away and get out there. I took on independent gigs—a cover here, a cover there. And all

For a while, I became obsessed with all the different Disney,

of them were terrible.

artists: Glen Keane, Marc Davis and all those old-school ani-

JL: How old are you now?

mators. I was amazed by all the movement they put into everything. I think their pencil drawings were much more expressive

KS: I’m 31.

than their final products.

JL: Oh, so you were really young. What was the very first

JL: Where did you find their pencils?

thing you got published?

KS: Other artists had had photocopies of them. There was a

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Kelsey usually constructs his environments by indicating a horizon line, then gesturing a grid freehand on the page. But to accurately represent this highly recognizable bridge and bas-relief, he uses a ruler and perspective points.

KS: The first storytelling I ever did was in a book called Tem-

them on the page in Photoshop?

plate no. 5. It was a backup that I did for Head Press. It’s

KS: Yes. Sometimes I’ll draw the background and then every

funny because Bob Muncie, the publisher of Head Press, previ-

character separately. I’ve often been in the situation where the

ously owned a comic book store in Dallas called Kaboom Comics.

backgrounds are perfect, and all the characters are perfect, but

I used to go in there and enter his art contest and I won it a cou-

the last guy on the panel just won’t get right. I end up with all

ple of times. Then years later, after he sold the place and started

this smudging. That’s why I’ve developed the habit of doing

his own publishing company, I ended up working with him and

everything separately.

he didn’t even remember me from his store.

JL: In panel four on the third page where you have those cars, you drew out all the mechanical stuff on one page, and then overlaid the characters. Did you use a red pen-

composing the panels

cil here to distinguish between the two? JL: So you scan your drawings and sketches and arrange

KS: Oh, no. It was all the same blue pencil. I changed the color

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in Photoshop to keep all the lines from blending together. I made

page two, panel three many times because I was never happy

the characters red so they’d stand out.

with how her arm was. The same thing happened with the foreground guy on panel one; I wanted this sense that he’s close

JL: So for a typical panel, you draw small. Then you scan

to a super wide-angle lens, and I just couldn’t get it right. So I

it into Photoshop. What resolution?

made him separate and then used the adjustment tools in the

KS: Generally 300 dpi.

pencil stage. I think I used “distort” to stretch him out and make him match the angle better.

JL: In gray scale?

My major influence growing up was Mignola, who draws

KS: It depends. That’s something I’m not religious about. I sort

everything very flat. So my first instinct is to draw everything

of go with the flow.

flat, head-to-toe, and straight on. But over the years I’ve grown

JL: What size is the template you set up for the page in

to love anime, and Michael Golden and Carlos Pacheco have

Photoshop?

these extreme angles in their work that I really want to perfect. So I tend to cheat now and then when something doesn’t look

KS: I do everything in 11" x 17". Especially these pages, be-

quite right.

cause there’s so much going on. These are actually all 600 dpi

JL: It makes sense to use a separate background, so that

at 11" x 17", so they’re enormous.

you can move your characters around without redrawing

JL: After you size them up, you arrange your panels and

anything. Does that come from working on animation

resize your sketches. If you draw characters separately,

cels with the background separate?

you scan those and cut and paste them into the background, right?

KS: Kind of. I was never into traditional animation. All the work I did was in 3-D, so I never actually did any animating.

KS: Right. I do that because sometimes I need to move things

I just designed for them. I was a huge animation fan before I

around, and I don’t want to screw up the background. This is

ever worked in the industry, so I knew all the steps. But I no-

helpful if I have a foreground character that’s interfering with

ticed that some guys separated their work on foreground and

some of the background characters, or if I make a head too big

background, and it just seemed like a good idea. It really freed

or a hand too small. I tweaked the girl on the foreground of

By keeping his figures separate from his backgrounds, Kelsey is able to reposition and correct different elements without the hassle of redrawing. When he’s ready to unite the characters with their environments in Photoshop, he distinguishes the figures by changing their color to red.

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me up. I started working that way because of my insecurity

KS: I do it all on typing paper. Since I mostly use pencils, when

about drawing technical things and buildings. And I hated

I blow up an image, the line gets a grainy quality.

having to draw all the perspective lines through my people. It

JL: So although you have inked your stuff in the past,

drove me nuts. So I do that separately, now.

you didn’t ink this one, did you? Did you just use a thin pencil line? KS: I think the first page might be inks with a really fine pen,

re-drawing

but the line wasn’t thin enough. The thinnest line I could get was JL: After you place everything in Photoshop, do you print

from a 2H mechanical pencil sharpened really fine, so I switched

your roughs out and lightbox them?

to that and got the kind of linework I wanted in the second and third pages.

KS: Yeah. JL: Did you print it out on an 11" x 17" sheet

scanning

of paper? KS: No. I don’t have an 11" x 17" scanner, so I make do with

JL: So, you complete a drawing and everything’s clean.

what I have. I wanted the lines in these pages to be very thin and

You scan it back in and make it an 11" x 17" sheet of

almost disappear. On the first page, the first and second levels,

paper. Next, do you adjust the levels to make

I did those first three panels on one 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper,

it dark?

lengthwise. JL: When you transfer your blown-up, edited image, do you then do the finished pencils on typing paper as well? Or do you move to a Bristol board?

Using a lightbox, typing paper and a very sharp pencil, Kelsey finalizes his drawings.

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KS: Yes. I want to color all the linework to make it look like traditional animation, so I need to start with a pure black-andwhite image. But if I just scan my drawing in, it’s not truly black-and-white. A lot of gray gets scanned, so I use “brightness” and “contrast” to eliminate the gray without deteriorating the line art. Then I do “threshold,” which makes the image absolute black-and-white. The bigger it is, the higher the resolution—and the better the image quality. JL: Would you do that if you were scanning grayish inks? KS: I could, but the program doesn’t really know what to do if there’s a gradation, so I might end up with some weird effects.

Scanning is only the first step in the Photoshop process. The gray tone of the

If you want to be able to color all of your linework, I suggest ad-

paper needs to be dropped out in order to achieve a solid black line for coloring.

justing it to absolute black-and-white.

storytelling JL: Sometimes I think sequential art students get too literal with their interpretations of a script. They’re afraid to change anything. And sometimes they get too imaginative or choose to disregard the script altogether. I think you struck a nice balance with this script. Part of that’s probably from being a professional storyteller. In page one, you’ve added a panel that helps clarify the pod’s escape and crash. KS: It helps with the geography, too. We see the lights around

Kelsey uses the “Brightness /Contrast” and “Image /Adjustments” tabs in Photoshop to eliminate the grays and define the line work.

the rim of the pod in the fourth panel. Then the characters go down into the pod and we move our eyes down into the next tier of panels, where we see those lights again. So we see them go down out of the ship and onto the planet. Hopefully that worked. JL: It did. The yellow you used for the windows defines the location, so we know exactly where they are. And the expression you gave the girl as she pulls down on that harness is a really good storytelling choice as well. It reminds me of the facial expressions people make on amusement park rides, and readers can relate to that. I think the vertical panels there helped a lot as well. In the second panel, you have the girl running. We can

To achieve a sharp line quality, Kelsey saves his final drawings at a high resolution. Six hundred pixels per inch should be more than enough.

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only see the stairwell because of the way you used the color to light the rooms. When I first looked at it in the pencils, I thought she was just running and he was trying to help her. Then I got a little lost in the pencils of panel three because I wondered how she got over there. But it all became very clear once I saw the colors: she’s running down toward that little pod you indicated in panel two. KS: Oh, yeah. Color in comics is almost like music in a film. It supplies subtext, but it also helps bring the reader from one place to the next by changing the lighting. Artists don’t take advantage of lighting as much they could. JL: You show the characters landing at the end of page one. On page two, you use warm colors like red-orange for the planet, which makes the space travelers seem cool in comparison. You’ve clearly established the man in the foreground, and the glow coming off that little time machine really draws the eye to it. KS: You may have noticed that the light is red on the machine until it actually works. Then it turns green. JL: Yes, that’s wonderful. Also on page two, you reduced the seven panels to six by removing a sound effect panel. KS: Yeah. It seems more efficient to put the sound effect in the panel, you know? Also, I’m not a big fan of sound effects. I try to make all the art look like sound effects so the sounds register in the brain. JL: So readers can add their own. KS: Yeah. I don’t mind sound effects if they’re done by a really good letterer like Ken Bruzenak, though. A letterer like that can do whatever he wants and it still looks cool. JL: All right. KS: I changed the second page a lot. In panel five, the script had a Neanderthal sniff the woman. To me, that took the focus away Kelsey uses color and lighting as storytelling tools to lead the eye in the direction of the action.

from the whole. Instead of focusing on what the Neanderthals do, I wanted to keep the action moving as fast as possible. I didn’t even put Neanderthals in that last panel, because for me the story is: They arrive, a danger presents itself, they huddle to-

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leading us into that third panel where the woman’s arm

gether like a family, and then they leave.

points down, leading to panel five where the running Ne-

JL: So you keep everything as frenetic as possible. Once

anderthals pull us to the left, leading us to the bottom

you establish the danger, you just need to show them run-

panels and the departure sequence. Is that something you

ning and trying to get out of that situation.

consciously plan out?

KS: Yeah. The bits are fun, but not necessary. I try to keep the

KS: I used to think about it more, but by now it’s almost in-

focus on the main characters and what they’re doing. However,

stinct. I used to have this discussion with Brian Stelfreeze all the

if the next page had more to do with what the Neanderthals were

time. The more detailed something is, the more people are going

doing with the people—for example, if they were captured—then

to look at it, so we consciously simplify to keep the focus on the

I probably would have had more emphasis on them sniffing the

important elements. But most of the time I can’t help myself.

girl like they were going to eat her. But it wasn’t necessary. This

You know; if there are rocks on the ground, I want to make

scene is about them getting away from the Neanderthals.

every little rock, and that tends to slow down the storytelling.

JL: In panel four on page two, you pulled up to really es-

So I need a strong flow of action really to help propel the story.

tablish that space.

In the third page, because the paneling is so rigid, I tried to use

KS: That was almost a necessity. I didn’t think the space was

the smoke to help lead the eye.

reading correctly until that point. Plus, I couldn’t think of a

There’s one problem I notice, though. The transitions are so

way to direct the reader’s attention from the far right of the

strong, I’m afraid people will miss the car wreck. I do think

page to the far bottom left. The only way I could think of was

the wreck is kind of an afterthought, though, because I wanted

to pull back in the image and have everybody run from the far

to focus on the drama of the main characters. I even took out

right to the far left.

the bit where the cab driver says that they’re ghosts because I

JL: You’re very aware of leading the eye at all times.

wanted to focus on the time-travelers. But I don’t know; that might be off.

KS: Oh, yeah.

JL: Here on page three, the script calls for the group of

JL: You drew the spear coming in on the second panel,

space travelers to reappear in the first panel, looking

A wide bird’s-eye view leads the eye into the next panel. It also establishes the environment and allows the characters to move from right to left without disturbing the continuity. A cooler color palette distinguishes the explorers from the planet’s inhabitants.

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working methods

around, in the same position they were in when they dis-

JL: I notice the low horizon line on page three, panel

appeared. You moved that to the third panel, and I think it

four. Did you choose that to increase the drama?

works out well. Can you explain why you chose to do that?

KS: Exactly. The script says that the city and cars are bearing

KS: I’m a big fan of setup and reveal. I think everything should

down on them, and a way to show that is to drop the camera

be a reveal. If you watch a Spielberg movie, everything—every

angle. I see that in movies a lot. I’m a big fan of David Fincher,

scene and every shot—is revealing something. So when they

and I like how he uses low camera angles and doesn’t have to

come into Chicago, I wanted to reveal that they’re in a city, then

keep his people fully in the frame. This helps show that the

that they’re in a specific city. Next, the woman and the cop see

main characters are running out of frame.

a danger we can’t see, and that leads into the fourth panel,

JL: The characters are well established on the prior two

where I reveal the car bearing down on them. I can reveal a lit-

pages, so we know exactly who they are. By dropping the

tle bit at a time and not have to spell everything out. In the

horizon, you make the car seem that much bigger, so

script, cars were honking in panel one so we knew exactly what

they’re really running to try to get out of the way.

the danger was. I wanted to lead into a reveal instead.

KS: Yeah, and that was another problem. Cars and car chases

JL: If you were to letter this whole thing, would you have

are the same as when a writer writes, “A guy goes through a

sound effects in panel three, like a car horn honking, or

door and slams it.” I mean, how do you show that? You can only

would you just rely on facial expressions?

show the before and after. So it helps to tighten the drama and

KS: That’s a good question. I went through this without even

focus on the element of danger in that moment, which is the

thinking about the lettering. That’s dangerous. If this were ac-

car bearing down on them. But again, we have the past, pres-

tually going to be lettered, that would have been really bad. The

ent, and future. We see the car behind them, the truck behind

composition should definitely work with lettering in mind. I’d

the car, and then…

probably put in “honk,” but I’d try to place it so that you see the

JL: They’re running to get out.

honking after you see the woman and the cop looking scared. That might have changed the whole composition of the panel.

KS: I was worried about that whole part.

JL: I notice you also eliminated superfluous information

JL: Oh, really?

about the other characters on this page, as you did with

KS: Yeah, it took real effort. That last panel, in which they’re

the Neanderthals on page two. The script gives you all

teleporting out and you see the overview, is really a way to ex-

this information about the passengers, and you just show

plain exactly where they were. That way, it’s okay that I don’t

the vehicles. Once again, I assume that’s so you can keep

explain where they are in earlier panels. They can just be in

the focus on the main characters.

the middle of the terrifying drama until they transport, and

KS: Exactly. But I needed more extras in that city scene. I’m

then we can see the “God’s view” of everything and know

really sad that I didn’t put enough people walking around in the

what’s happening.

background, but it came down to a time issue.

JL: That last panel helps establish the immense space. Al-

JL: You had some people in your roughs that disappeared

though you hint at the space in the other panels, we just

on the final.

see a few cars on a crowded street until you pull away to reveal that big intersection. We get to see the aftermath of

KS: They are in the third panel, but would have put in

the collision, too. What gave you the idea for the waterfall?

more people if I had the time. At least the focus isn’t on

KS: I have no idea. I was thinking about how they had to face

background people.

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kelsey shannon

a bunch of Neanderthals, and then a bunch of cars. So what could be worse than that? I guess going over a waterfall. And I wanted it to be something funny. I really like injecting humor into a story to balance it out. I got a lot of comments from people about the seal. The whole time they were worried about the seal. “Is the seal okay?” I was trying to think of how to end this with danger, yet in a generous light. Well, I’ll just have them all go over a waterfall. It could be worse… Well, how could it possibly be worse than going over a waterfall? JL: I like the seal praying and the guy taking photographs as he goes over. KS: Well, that’s another thing—playing around with danger. It’s like a cartoon. You have these horrible events, but they don’t seem so dangerous because people aren’t reacting in a very scared way. JL: The one guy is hanging onto his hat so he doesn’t lose it in the fall. KS: I don’t know if you noticed the other guy pointing at the waterfall, but there’s a wolf behind him, too. There’s a lot of danger in the panel, but the man just says, “It could be worse.”

advice JL: What advice do you have for young sequential artists? KS: Attend as many conventions as you can. Show your portfolio and take criticism graciously. Talk to as many artists as you can about their approaches to storytelling and drawing. Post your drawings online to get feedback from the art community. Take any job you can get, even if you don’t get paid much—or at all. Knowing that your work will be in print is a great incentive, and having a deadline to meet is great training.

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Kelsey Shannon’s Time Troubling

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Photograph by Wayne Moore

WMethods Cover Final.qxp:Layout 1

John Lowe has worked as a professional comic illustrator since 1991. His clients have included DC Comics, Marvel Comics, Image Comics, Dark Horse Comics, Caliber Comics, Golden Books, and Archie Comics. In 2002 John earned his MFA in Sequential Art and began teaching full-time at the Savannah College of Art and Design in Savannah, Georgia. He has served as chair of the Sequential Art Department since 2003. John lives in Savannah, Georgia with his wife, Ikeda; their children, Jonah, Koji, Atticus and Betelehem; and their dog, Wobble.

Back and inside cover photography by Charlie Ribbins

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c omic c r eator s deta il their storytelling a nd a rtistic pr oc esses

terpreted in different ways by professional comic artists to illustrate the varied ways in which they “see” and “solve” the prob-

WORKING METHODS

rofessional comic artists interpret scripts every day as they successfully transform the written word into the visual form.

j ohn low e

TwoMorrows Publishing, Raleigh, NC $21.95 in the US ISBN 978-1-893905-73-3

WORKING METHODS Comic Creators Detail Their Storytelling and Artistic Processes

b y j ohn low e