Write Now! #3 by TwoMorrows Publishing

INSIDE: 14 WAYS TO BEAT WRITER’S BLOCK!

$ 95

In the USA

AXEL ALONSO

M AG A ZI N E

March 2003

BRUCE JONES

JIMMY PALMIOTTI

KURT BUSIEK

WRITING LESSONS FROM DENNY O’NEIL

Number 10, Winter 2003 • Hype and hullabaloo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom • Edited by Eric Nolen-Weathington

S’long CBA... ...Hello ? First off, some disappointing news: COMIC BOOK ARTIST magazine is moving to Top Shelf Productions. After five years and two Eisner Awards at TwoMorrows, “Ye Ed” JON COOKE got an offer he couldn’t refuse, so #25 (slated for April, and featuring Alan Moore’s ABC line) will be the last issue before the switch. Refunds to subscribers for issues beyond #25 have been mailed, so if you didn’t get yours, give our phone or e-mail box a jingle. And if you’re missing some CBA back issues, don’t worry; we’re still handling sales of all the TwoMorrows issues until they’re sold out, so now’s the time to stock up! (If you’ve been anxiously awaiting the previously announced SWAMPMEN book, sorry—it’s been shelved due to CBA’s switch.)

TIDBITS lthough DRAW! is consistently our top-selling magazine, it’s also our most erratic at shipping on-time. While the magazine has fallen behind due to contributor and scheduling issues, MIKE MANLEY has vowed to get DRAW! out more regularly in 2003, and has a ton of material “in the can” for future issues, so look for solid quarterly or better shipping starting with #6 (above)! ow that ALTER EGO is monthly, it’s our most regular mag, and ROY THOMAS hasn’t missed a deadline yet! (Of course, designer CHRIS DAY helps a little, too!) Be sure to check out #23 in April, showcasing the recent discovery of two NEVER-PUBLISHED Golden Age Wonder Woman yarns! RITE NOW! editor DANNY FINGEROTH shared with us this quote he received from STAN “THE MAN” LEE: “WRITE NOW! is a great mag… reading the interviews will turn all your subscribers into better writers. As if we ain't got enough competition now!“ If Stan likes it, we bet you will too! Pick up issue #4 (above) in April, featuring HOWIE CHAYKIN, WARREN ELLIS, and other top pros on both sides of the desk giving tips on writing for comics, animation, and sciencefiction!

Modern Masters Making Waves!

So just what is TwoMorrows going to do with that empty slot on its schedule once CBA is gone? Glad you asked! We’re hard at work on SUPER-SECRET PLANS for the launch of what we predict will be the NEW MAGAZINE OF THE YEAR! Look for the formal announcement next issue, but rest assured it’ll appeal to the same audience as CBA, and is destined to be THE ULTIMATE COMICS EXPERIENCE!

For those misguided individuals who still think we only cover the “old school” artists of the Golden and Silver Ages, take note. TwoMorrows production assistant (and all-around good guy) ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON is editing our new book series spotlighting the top talent working in comics today! MODERN MASTERS: VOLUME ONE showcases the work of ALAN DAVIS, the British superstar known for his stunning work on DETECTIVE COMICS, X-MEN, JUSTICE LEAGUE, KILLRAVEN, and of course, CAPTAIN BRITAIN! This first volume of the series explores his life and career with the longest, most in-depth interview Davis has ever given. In addition to pages and pages of rare and previously unpublished artwork, Alan gives a tutorial on the artists that influenced him, plus his views on graphic storytelling. Also included are interviews with long-time collaborators Paul Neary and Mark Farmer. (Neary also provides the Foreword, while Farmer contributes the Afterword.) The 128-page trade paperback ships in March for $17 POSTPAID IN THE US. And next up for Volume Two? GEORGE PÉREZ!

Lightning Strikes Again! Hot on the heels of the success of THE FAWCETT COMPANION, TwoMorrows presents BECK AND SCHAFFENBERGER: SONS OF THUNDER, a splitbiography book (with a Foreword by KEN BALD) on the careers and lives of two of comics’ greatest and most endearing artists, C.C. BECK and KURT SCHAFFENBERGER! Both men are known for their seminal work on FAWCETT COMICS, and this upclose and personal retrospective journey takes you from their childhood years to the Golden Age of comic books and beyond! Co-written by FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) editor P.C. HAMERLINCK and MARK VOGER, this book is chock-full of previously unpublished art by both artists, including pre-comic book work, art from CAPTAIN MARVEL, LOIS LANE, and more, plus hundreds of RARE PHOTOGRAPHS! If you’re a fan of either of these Golden and Silver Age greats, this is a book you can’t miss! The 160-page paperback ships in April, for $20 POSTPAID IN THE US.

Barnes & Noble, Here We Come! TwoMorrows has signed an exclusive deal with DIAMOND BOOK DISTRIBUTORS to get our trade paperbacks into major bookstore chains around the world! This extra exposure means we’ll have the opportunity to publish some groundbreaking tomes by authors who might’ve overlooked us with just Direct Market distribution. Next issue, you’ll see the type of material we’re talking about. STAY TUNED!

To get periodic e-mail updates of what’s new from TwoMorrows Publishing, sign up for our mailing list! Go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ twomorrows

Whatta December! First, an ice storm ripped through Raleigh, NC (TwoMorrows’ home base) and knocked out the electricity for 8 long, cold days! Then, just 36 hours after the lights came back on, wife Pam woke publisher John Morrow at 4am and put him on a plane bound for Miami, to take a surprise week-long Caribbean cruise to celebrate his 40th birthday! (Pam packed his bags while he was consumed with working on the new KIRBY COLLECTOR, so he didn’t suspect a thing!) By the time they returned, the holidays were here, and a trip to visit family (and show off 16month-old daughter Lily) was in order. So now you know why TJKC #37 won’t be shipping until Feb. Sorry, Kirby fans!

Coming Soon! Alter Ego #22 (March) Alter Ego #23 (April) Comic Book Artist #24 (Feb) CBA #25 (April, final issue) DRAW! #5 (Feb) DRAW! #6 (April) Modern Masters Vol. One (March) Sons of Thunder (April) The Jack Kirby Collector #37 (Feb) The Jack Kirby Collector #38 (April) Write Now! #3 (Feb) Write Now! #4 (April)

CONTACTS:

John Morrow, publisher, JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR editor, and for subscriptions): twomorrow@aol.com Roy Thomas, ALTER EGO editor: roydann@ntinet.com Mike Manley, DRAW! editor: mike@actionplanet.com P.C. Hamerlinck, FCA editor: fca2001@yahoo.com Danny Fingeroth, WRITE NOW! editor: WriteNowDF@aol.com Jon B. Cooke, COMIC BOOK ARTIST editor: jonbcooke@aol.com And the TWOMORROWS WEBSITE (where you can read excerpts from our back issues, and order from our secure online store) is at: www.twomorrows.com

M AG A ZI N E Issue #3

March 2003

Read Now! Message from the Editor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 2

Hulking In Interview with Bruce Jones . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 3

State-of-the-Art Editing Interview with Axel Alonso . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 20

NOT the last... Interview with Dennis O’Neil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 28

“But What Does Danny Think?” Idiots and Outlaws . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 42

Astro City’s Marvel Interview with Kurt Busiek . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 43

From Inker To Editor To Writer Interview with Jimmy Palmiotti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 57 Feedback . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 76 Books On Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . page 77

Nuts & Bolts Department Script To Printed Comic: The Incredible Hulk #49 Pages from “The Morning After,” by Bruce Jones, John Romita Jr., and Tom Palmer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 14

Writer’s Block Without Panic Joey Cavalieri shows you how to start—and restart— the creative juices . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 16

Script Triage In 5 Simple(?) Steps Axel Alonso on the fine art of script-salvaging . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 26

Comics 101 Notes by Dennis O’Neil for the writing and editing classes he teaches at DC Comics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 33

Script To Printed Comic: Azrael #75 Pages from “Fallen Angel,” by Dennis O’Neil, Sergio Cariello and James Pascoe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 40

Writing for Comics Vs. Writing for Other Media Kurt Busiek explains how comics are like, and how they’re different from, other entertainment forms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 47

From Scribbled Notes To Finished Product 1: The Power Company #10 An enlightening peek into the very beginning of the creative process on “Dealing With Devils,” by Kurt Busiek, Tom Grummett and Prentis Rollins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .page 51

From Scribbled Notes To Finished Product 1: Avengers Vol 3 #40 See the germ of an idea become a story you read, from “Thoom,” by Kurt Busiek, Alan Davis and Mark Farmer . . . . . . . . . . .page 54 Write Now! is published 4 times a year by TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Fax: (919) 833-8023. Danny Fingeroth, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Write Now! E-mail address: WriteNowDF@aol.com. Single issues: $8 Postpaid in the US ($10 Canada, $11 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $20 US ($40 Canada, $44 elsewhere). Order online at: www.twomorrows.com or e-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com All characters are TM & © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © the respective authors. Editorial package is ©2003 Danny Fingeroth and TwoMorrows Publishing. Write Now! is a shared trademark of Danny Fingeroth and TwoMorrows Publishing. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Conceived & Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH Designer CHRISTOPHER DAY Transcribers DEANNE WALTZ and the LONGBOX.COM STAFF and STEVEN TICE Publisher JOHN MORROW COVER Penciled and inked by MIKE DEODATO JR. Colored by HERMES T Special Thanks To ALISON BLAIRE DAVE CAMPITI APRIL CAMPBELL AMANDA CONNER CHRIS DAY JOHNNY GUITAR PATTY JERES STEVE KANE SCOTT KOBLISH JOHN MIESEGAES ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON MARIFRAN O’NEIL CHRIS POWELL BEN REILLY VARDA STEINHARDT WRITE NOW | 1

READ Now! Message from Danny Fingeroth, editor

elcome to our Hulkeriffic third issue. (And special thanks to Mike Deodato for the sensational cover!) Once again, we’re bringing you more tips, insights and didactic discussions about writing comics and related forms of pop fiction. Nuts & Bolts-wise, look who’s peeling back the curtain and showing you how it’s done. • Ever have trouble starting—or finishing—a piece of writing? Longtime DC Comics editor and writer Joey Cavalieri (who at least one complete stranger on an elevator once thought was my brother) tells you how to overcome dreaded Writer’s Block! • Red-hot writer Bruce Jones (more on him later) shows how The Hulk gets scripted. • Super-editor Axel Alonso explains the mechanics behind the best-selling comics he handles. • Marvel Knights co-founder Jimmy Palmiotti shows you how he writes the surprise-and-action-filled 21 Down. • Astro City’s Kurt Busiek reveals how he goes about structuring and creating a story. • And (postponed from last issue) legendary comics master Dennis O’Neil shows you the notes he uses to teach his classes in comics structure. You won’t get a clearer description of the process anywhere. Then, in this issue’s “lessons-disguised-as-interviews” we have a line-up that blows me away. Bet it does the same for you. • First, Bruce Jones. Cousin Brucie is setting the comics world on fire with his version of The Hulk that’s earned critical and commercial success. Bruce is the “overnight sensation” who’s been in the business since the 1970s. Did he reinvent himself? Or was he always the same and the times just caught up with him? Read the interview and see. • And as far as voucher-signing superstars—AKA editors—Axel Alonso is on board. Axel is Bruce’s editor on Hulk as well as J. Michael Straczynski’s on Amazing Spider-Man and Robert Morales’s on The Truth. You have to know what Axel is thinking if you want to understand comics today. • And this issue we do indeed have the Dennis O’Neil interview. Denny’s recovered from his bypass surgery and is doing fine. Find out how the man went from young turk of the ‘70s to respected master of today. Want to have a long career? Denny has some insights on how it’s done. • Jimmy Palmiotti’s had a wild career. Started as an inker. Went off with then-partner Joe Quesada to cocreate Event Comics and Ash. Optioned Ash to DreamWorks. Co-created, co-edited and co-packaged

2 | WRITE NOW

the Marvel Knights line. Then went off to co-create GateCrasher for Wizard’s Black Bull Comics. Jimmy’s now doing a wide range of creator-owned comics material as well as tons o’ Hollywood stuff. He’s done it his way—and keeps doing it his way. You’ll learn a lot reading what he has to say. • And Kurt Busiek. Hey—he’s Kur t Busiek. Marvels. Astro City. Avengers. The freakin’ Thunderbolts. One day he was a writer in the trenches, the next day Marvels hit—and his whole life changed! From there it was one triumph after another. How’d he do it? Check out the interview, conducted by Peter Sanderson, comics scholar extraordinaire. We were supposed to have Fabian Nicieza’s interview this issue, but that’ll be here next time. It’ll be worth the wait. Fabian’s never been one to be lacking in passion or opinions. Our lawyers are going over this one with an extra-fine tooth comb. Next issue, there’s an outspoken interview with the, well, outspoken Howard Chaykin. Howard’s done an all-new American Flagg cover for the issue. Steven Grant’ll be back with tips on how to navigate the Hollywood maze. Batman Beyond’s Paul Dini talks to us from inside that very maze. Jimmy Palmiotti conducts a no-holds-barred interview with Warren Ellis. Batman Group Editor Bob Schreck will give his unique point of view on comics writing. Dark Horse Senior Editor Diana Schutz will tell us what she looks for in a comics script. And Platinum Studios founder Scott Mitchell Rosenberg will talk about making comics into hit film and TV projects. Plus, there’ll be more Nuts & Bolts lessons and pointers from Denny O’Neil and other smart people. Then there’s that special new feature we’ll be starting in issue #5. You know—the issue that’s going to have Will Eisner and J. Michael Straczynski interviewed in it. The special feature? Here’s another hint: it’s the most intensive teaching tool for comics writing ever attempted in a magazine. Intrigued? I am—and I know what it is! Write Away!

Danny Fingeroth Three very worthy people’s names were inadvertently left out of the image credits in Lee Nordling’s interview last issue. They were Fred Van Lente as the writer for “Cowboys & Aliens,” Andrew Foley as the writer of “Age of Kings,” and Brian Joines as the writer of “The Taking of Happyland.” Sorry, guys. Now we’ve set the record straight.

Hulking In

The BRUCE JONES Interview

Bruce was also given the task of reviving Ka-Zar the Savage. Bruce brought Kevin a gotta hate Bruce Jones. Plunder into the [Didactic note: A classic “what does he mean by that?” ‘80s. He made him opening! You feel compelled to read on, right? Hey—come into a sort of back!] modern guy who I mean, he’s talented, funny, charming. And, to boot, he’s happened to be just too damn good-looking. living in the Bruce looks like a GQ model. When I first met him, I hidden jungle of thought some actor or model had gotten lost and come to the the Savage Land. wrong office. It was, especially But it was indeed Bruce. I was working as Louise Jones’ for the time, a (later Simonson) assistant back in the year Og. (And, no, radical rethey’re not related.) Bruce was in town to discuss Ka-Zar, imagining of Conan and a few other assignments. He had worked with characters—Ka-Zar Louise on the classic Warren line of horror comics, including and Shanna the She-Devil, his significant other—that could Eerie and Creepy. Bruce often drew the stories he wrote only have come from a writer and an editor who had come there. Louise brought him over to Marvel when she became up outside the cloistered super-hero environment of Marvel an editor there, and Bruce had some daunting jobs to do. He and DC. It was a breath of fresh air, and of course, was one of the first writers (along with Michael Fleisher) after considered controversial. People who didn’t even remember Roy Thomas to handle Conan the Barbarian. there was a Ka-Zar were suddenly outraged by what Bruce was doing with him. That it was great writing (and great art—by Brent Anderson) seemed to not matter. Eventually, most of the nay-sayers came around. After a couple of years at Marvel, Bruce branched out into independent work, creating magazines he both wrote and drew for Pacific Comics, and launching Somerset Holmes, a neonoir comic about a twofisted female private eye. On Somerset he was teamed again with the brilliant Brent Anderson. From there, it was on to Hollywood to the world of prose publishing for Bruce and his sometime writing partner and full-time wife, April Campbell. Somewhere in there, Bruce did a Venom Limited Series for me in the 1990s. But for the most part, A double-page spread from The Incredible Hulk V. 2 #38 (regular series) written by Bruce Jones with art by John Romita, Jr. and

Conducted via e-mail January 2, 2003 Edited by Danny Fingeroth / Copy-edited by Bruce Jones

Bruce seemed to have left comics behind. Maybe he was scouted to be a movie star after all? After the ups and downs that seem to go with Hollywood writing careers, including making lots of money for scripts that were never produced, Bruce has reappeared, Phoenixlike (or Kansas City like, anyway), in the world of comics. Starting with anthology work with Axel Alonso at DC, then coming (back) to Marvel, Bruce has become one of the “hot new writers” in comics. His run on Incredible Hulk is already—and continues to be—legendary. He brings his unique mark to lots of other projects, too, including The Call of Duty and Hulk/Wolverine: 6 Hours. It’s always a kick to see someone who leaves comics in one era come back and triumph in a new one. Of course, it helps if you’re as talented and driven as Bruce is. Come to think of it, ya can’t really hate a guy like that. I take it back. Now, if only he wasn’t so damn good-looking… [Didactic note 2: Note how suavely I brought my little gag from the opening of this intro back at the end. Ah, the human need for unity, satisfied once again… —DF] In this interview done via e-mail, Bruce talks about the evolution of his career and about what it takes to lead a writer’s life. DANNY FINGEROTH: What in your background do you think led you to become a writer? (Did your parents value “creativity”? Were there any special relatives, teachers or peers who inspired you?) BRUCE JONES: My father was a big influence in terms of film, music and writing. He loved movies as a kid and always drove me to the first new show in the neighborhood. He used to tell me tales of his childhood in Kansas City, and a high school pal of his who was an electronics genius. They built this incredible tree house with hidden electric doors and other cool, forwardthinking gadgets. He and my father wrote a novel up there among the leaves. It was called The Red Hemp—a mystery thriller. I thought that was so great. Dad was always very animated when talking about it, very excited, and the excitement was contagious to a kid of eight. I think that was the first time I realized somebody actually sat down and composed things like novels and stories, that they didn’t just appear unbidden from the ethers. I used to sit in his lap in front of his old black Royal typewriter and we’d create stories together, long before I had the necessary spelling and syntax. Something about setting down thoughts in type, putting one word after another and creating a whole, fascinated me. I was entranced by the permanency of it, the ability to go back and reread what you’d created days or weeks later—something about capturing little blocks of memory and holding them forever struck a deep chord. I had little interest in sharing this stuff; I was doing it chiefly to entertain myself. I think I must have had a strong sense of self, something every writer probably has, or at least needs. You are the center of the Universe—that kind of nonsense. Later I had a couple of English teachers who were very encouraging about my writing, reading my class themes aloud to the other students, hearing them laugh—it was my first experience in affecting the emotions of others through an extension of myself; sharing something I’d made of whole cloth. A psychiatrist would probably say I had an enormous need to feel loved, but the idea of entertaining people was very seductive to me early on. 4 | WRITE NOW

When I wasn’t writing and drawing I was the class clown. But I had this very private, introspective side as well. Strange. DF: Did you take courses in writing or ar t in college? If so, were they helpful? Harmful? BJ: I majored in Drawing and Painting at Kansas University but I took no writing courses other than the requisite English I. I was a lousy student—not necessarily from the standpoint of grades—but I was terribly rebellious, and hated being taught in general unless the teacher was particularly engaging—and most weren’t. I took art because I could always outdraw everybody in grade school and high school and figured it would be easy. Path of least resistance, you know? And also because I feared being taught “how to write” would ruin it for me. True to form, I loathed the art classes, which dealt mainly in art history and the non-commercial aspects of the form. Later I realized it was the best thing I could have done, studying the masters like that, and more importantly, learning to appreciate and understand fine art, guys who were painting because they were driven and couldn’t do otherwise as opposed to guys just trying to make a living. It didn’t help me in the least in getting a job later, but it opened up a whole new department of my brain. I could actually go to a museum and understand a Monet. It was also depressing, because like all kids, up to that time I thought I was pretty hot stuff. What I discovered was that all the great arts are interrelated, and to understand one on a fundamental level is to understand the underpinnings of them all. I doubt I’d have ever known that without college. Looking back, I wish I’d paid more attention to class and less chasing chicks.

DF: Were you a TV kid? If not, what fed your stor y jones, Jones? Did you read comics? Which ones? What’s stuck with you? BJ: Again, my father was a major influence there. He was way into sound and vision gadgets of any kind, the next invention to come along. As a boy, he always had the first crystal set on his block, then the first radio, the first transistors—so when I was a kid, we had the first TVs available, the first stereo system—and lots of music always playing around the house, much of it classical or those great Big Band sounds. I was very lucky in that way. I’d come home from school and turn on the B&W Philco—wait an hour for the test pattern to disappear—and watch Howdy Doody start the day’s programming. That was when there were only two channels to watch. ABC came along later. There was the Dumont Network, but I don’t seem to recall much about it or Captain Video. We lived in St. Louis and got Tom Corbett, Space Cadet, but not Space Patrol, a constant lament of mine. I devoured the George Reeves Superman show—thought it was just great— especially that first season, which was so film noir, so downright creepy with that scalp-crawling music. My formative years were during the lingering guilt of post-WWII America. It was the pulps’ last hurrah. The air was rife with paranoia about Communists. Most theatrical movies were in black-andwhite, which has a built-in, dream-like quality to it. Horror comics abounded and I was drawn to them like a magnet. Forbidden fruit. They were so disturbing… I never quite got over them. Some of those Atlas covers, I think, were really “Head of the Class,” from Pacific Comics’ Alien Worlds #1. Story by Bruce Jones and works of great psychological art, just completely depraved, art by Nestor Redondo. [©2003 Bruce Jones & Nestor Redondo.] with no apologies, no heroes, no overtly redeeming quality— was part of the Jeff Jones/Berni Wrightson/Mike Kaluta New just art existing for its own sake, which was to shock and York gang of rebels of the early ‘70s. We were all hellbent on disturb. I don’t think there’s been an era like that since. Much being the new Frank Frazetta or Hal Foster or N.C. Wyeth. We of the writing and art was awful—it was the attitude behind it all grew up reading and loving comics, the problem was everythat mattered. My own theory is it had something to do with thing in New York was super-heroes then, making it kind of our own guilt about bombing Japan. To my mind, all those EC tough to get work when you had the kind of illustrative style we walking corpses are metaphors for the Nazi death camps, all shared. But it was great to have buddies to hang out with something else we felt guilty about. We knew the concentration and drive upstate to visit Frazetta and Al Williamson and the camps existed and didn’t get into the war until our hand was Brandywine School, a blend of rural New England and classic forced. Add the level of sexual suppression of the day, the style that Howard Pyle is credited with starting and teaching. outright repression of blacks, the after-work cocktails and These guys were our heroes. Williamson was particularly ingrasmoking which were almost obligatory, and you had some tiating, just another member of the gang. He had this huge pretty strange stuff influencing the mind of a young boy. But collection of 16mm movies at a time when there were no you also had George Pal’s War of the Worlds, the ‘57 T-Bird, VCRs—we’d stay up all night watching Flash Gordon serials and Elvis. It could be argued—and with some merit—that that and King Kong, Al pointing out stuntman Dave Sharpe during movie, car and singer have never been surpassed, only those great Republic Serials. It was Al who introduced us to a emulated. Every era has its tradeoffs. lot of the great old illustrators like Flagg, Cole Philips, DF: You came to New York to be an ar tist. What gave you the Leyendecker, Christy, John Held, Gibson, Howard Pyle, courage to do that in the first place? Did your family suppor t Remington, Schoonover, Cornwell—guys our art professors in the idea? Were you par t of a group that came to or arrived in college turned their noses up at. Visiting Al was like spending NY together? the weekend at a library. And he’d sit down with us, go over our BJ: I was born in Kansas City, Missouri and raised in the St. art, show us where we were screwing up. We were all just very Louis suburbs. Strictly a suburban kid from almost the get go. lucky to have him as a friend. Frazetta was a nice guy too, if Probably because of that I’ve always had trouble living in the less accessible. urban areas of any town, even LA which is kind of one big DF: How did you transition to writing? Still do any ar twork? suburb to begin with. My parents were very encouraging of my BJ: It was easier to get work as an artist than a writer because drawing and writing when I was a child. Then as adulthood it’s easier to “get” a drawing at one glance than wade through approached and they began to realize I was serious about a stack of prose. But I kept getting these scripts where the making a living at it I think they worried about me. It was easy writer wanted me to draw a race track or something, some to find the courage to leave the Midwest where I’d been a shoe incredibly difficult time-consuming thing I’d get thirty-five dollars salesman or a construction worker or a dishwasher, and head a page for. That and the fact that I felt I could write better for New York where something I did creatively might actually get scripts than most of the stuff being handed to me led to the noticed. But anything’s easier when you’re young and stupid. I BRUCE JONES | 5

because I hadn’t turned 40 yet. I bumped into Berni Wrightson segue into writing. I was never a fast artist anyway, and other after years of not seeing him and he introduced me to Tim than Jeff, I was the only guy I hung out with who was married Bradstreet. Bradstreet and I hit if off, and I think it was Tim and needed to create some semblance of a home life, which who suggested to Axel that he get a hold of that guy who used included paying bills on time. For me, writing simply paid better, to write for Creepy and Eerie. or at least faster. DF: You’ve said that Axel Alonso and Louise Jones were your DF: Who were/are your favorite authors? Directors? best editors ever. What made them that? Screenwriters? BJ: A lot of things, but probably foremost their great instincts. BJ: Novelist/short storywriter Richard Matheson heavily influComics have their own unique vocabulary just like movies and enced me as a kid. I liked Bradbury, Charles Beaumont; a lot of novel have theirs—some people just have a natural ability to guys that I learned later had hung out in LA just like we were understand the structure, pacing and the little intangibles hanging out in New York. Later as you approach adulthood, you endemic to the form. When you like to think of yourself as one begin to stray from Lovecraft and Howard, spread your wings of those people, you have little problem recognizing it in others. and lean toward mainstream. I read everything by Hank Searls, It’s about mutual respect. And self-confidence. You have to William Goldman, John Updike. For the classics, I went through believe in your abilities and those of the people you’re working my Jack London period. Like every young man, I was ape over with or you just have nothing. Axel and I argue all the time— Hemingway. Old Man and the Sea is still a standard waiting to sometimes I win, sometimes he wins—and for all I know he be topped. Mitchell Smith, I think, is very gifted contemporary may go away thinking I’m an asshole—but an asshole whose writer. Larry McMurtry is the best when he’s hot. Shirley intelligence he respects. He knows I’m not bitching just to win, Jackson and Daphne du Maurier were giants. I love Tom Harris, but because I genuinely care about the quality of the material, even when he goes over the top. Want to learn how to write? and I feel the same way about him. The worst decision by Axel Read four books by Canadian author John Buell: Four Days, Alonso is still better than the best decision of most editors. The Shrewsdale Exit, Playground, and Too Far to Go (all from The same was true of Louise “Weezie” Jones (Simonson); we Farrar, Straus & Giroux). There’s more succinct skill in one knew and respected the other person’s strengths and guided paragraph of Buell than in whole chapters of other writers. him away from his weaknesses. A real writer or artist will Hitchcock was my favorite director early on. Also John Ford. Bill welcome that kind of support and rapport. Unfortunately, it’s a Goldman was both a favorite author and screenwriter. Joseph rare commodity. Weezie, of course, was Jeff Jones’ wife at the Stefano was a big influence. I don’t know, I watched and read time and we’d socialized before she became editor at Warren, everything within reach. Walt Disney—and specifically staffers so she already knew my warped sense of humor and my like Ward Kimball—maybe influenced me more than just about anyone in one way or another. Most people don’t realize that without Kimball’s Tomorrowland episodes of the old Disneyland TV show, there might never have been a US space program. He virtually picked up where Wernher Von Braun left off and raised the consciousness of both the public and theoreticians about the possibilities of space flight. But, there were so many terrific talents out there; it’s hard to choose a favorite or definitive influence. DF: What were your favorite TV shows as a kid? As an adult? BJ: As a kid, The Adventures of Superman (first two seasons), Science Fiction Theater, Playhouse 90, Kraft Television Theater, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Outer Limits, Sea Hunt, Malibu Run, The Untouchables—God, too many to list. As an adult, far fewer. I loved Thirty-Something, My So Called Life, Once and Again. Currently it’s The Sopranos and Six Feet Under. I pretty much gave-up on Network sitcoms early on. Sunday nights I switch between HBO and Adult Swim. DF: How’d you first hook up with Ax el? Did he approach you at Ver tigo, or did you submit stuff to him? BJ: As I remember, he called when he was at Vertigo doing anthology material. I had no idea what was going on in comics at that time; I was living in California writing TV and novels and making a lot of money “Jenifer” written by Bruce Jones with art by Berni Wrightson. Originally printed in Creepy #63 and reprinted in Berni Wrightson: Master of the Macabre #2. [©2003 Warren Publishing, Co.] 6 | WRITE NOW

idiosyncratic personality, which gave me a leg up, I’m sure. We already liked each other as friends. She was smart and cute with this great little-girl laugh—you just wanted to please her. Weezie really knew how to be an editor in a man’s world. She was sexy and brainy at the same time and knew how to handle the male ego. You couldn’t get mad at her, she was too adorable, and you couldn’t outmaneuver her intellect. DF: Talk a little about what you learned working on the Warren stories. Was that a good training ground? Does any such thing exist today? BJ: I think any time you’re working it’s good training. It was the greatest volume of comic work I’d done to that point. But the Warren books were anthology-oriented and anthology has its own kind of pacing and feel. Almost any kind of short story in any kind of genre demands some kind of punch ending, even if it comes on cat’s feet. The trick is to not let the reader see it coming, never make it gratuitous and hopefully say something about the human condition in what can all too easily become a ten- or twelve-page joke. Many of the EC stories come across as grim little jokes now—not to take anything away from “Hung Up” written and drawn by Bruce Jones from Twisted Tales of Bruce Jones #4. [©2003 Bruce Jones.] that august group—and I tried very hard not between a plethora of wildly varying stimuli, many of which to emulate that structure, to give my stuff a contemporary feel. have a quicker, more visceral impact on the brain than the My reading habits at that time had been in the short story comparatively quaint activity of turning a comic page. Comics prose form, not the comic book, so that’s the well I was also have a history of being perceived as a child’s medium, a drawing from for inspiration, consciously or otherwise. My initial perhaps not so legitimate stigma other forms of entertainment attitude was really very cavalier: I regarded comics as a don’t labor under. Really I think it’s less about children/adult substandard, terribly limiting, even superfluous form. I was this then it is about who reads and who doesn’t read—and specifiiconoclast determined I could do something literate even with cally who reads visually oriented material. If you believe comics all those bothersome pictures getting in the way. What a jerk, is an art form—and I do—then by extension, you must let that huh? I soon learned that the medium is an art form all by art form grow, like any other. Things grow by the gradually itself, thank you, which works best when the two elements are increasing vocabulary the writer/artists accumulate and skillfully married. And just like any other medium, its only as impose on the medium, which is in turn passed on to readers. limiting as the talents of those involved. Working with Weezie So even if there were a Mighty Mouse comic around today, it and some of the best artists in the business is probably what wouldn’t be the kind I read as a kid. I know it’s fashionable to taught me that. And no, I really don’t think anything like the accuse the current crop of school kids as woefully lacking in Warren books exists today. One reason is that it’s just damned verbal and reading skills. But just because a kid is more hard to write good short fiction—very demanding. Every word, visually oriented than prose oriented, doesn’t make him every panel must count, everything trimmed to the bone. You dumber. In fact, I’m convinced they’re smarter—just in different can never go over the damn thing enough. Those were great ways—like their ability to assimilate certain kinds of infortimes, but they weren’t easy times. mation faster than we could. But I think there will always be DF: My pet peeve: Ever yone seems to have written off the kid comic book readers just as there will always be sports fans audience for comics. Where’re the new readers going to come and stamp collectors. Some of us are just wired that way. The from? Why does it have to be either/or? Can’t there be some question is, will there be a sufficient number of them to make comics for kids, some for adults and some for both? Harry the business of publishing comics a worthwhile and profitable Potter seems to not suffer from the crossover audience. venture? Movies continue to break box office records every BJ: I think parents are so desperately happy to have their kids year, but not only are there fewer of them made now than in reading anything, the fact that Harry Potter is also decently their heyday, but many would argue their quality has declined written is kind of a bonus. I don’t know… I long ago gave up steadily since 1939. Having said that, there are way more trying to analyze why kids or adults read the things they do. In independent films and comics produced now than in their somy own childhood comics stash, Mighty Mouse shared space called golden ages, a wider variety of content and genre and with Tales From The Crypt. Was I an anomaly? There are presumably a greater degree of sophistication. My feeling is theories that the main reason for the comics boom of the ‘40s that the industry isn’t providing more child-oriented comics for and ‘50s was G.I.s buying them at the PX! Who knows? It’s the simple reason they don’t believe the average child of today certainly true that a contemporary kid’s attention is divided BRUCE JONES | 7

cares about them or would care about them. Kids today gravitate toward moving objects, whatever their aesthetic worth. Also, whereas adults tend to vacillate between genres of the same medium, children tend to vacillate between mediums themselves. Where an adult may be lured from westerns to science-fiction—and Hollywood must hustle to catch up— children will forsake hula-hoops for Pokémon without skipping a beat, dropping one entire form of popular culture for another— sometimes leaving toymakers bankrupt. Genres tend to run in cycles; childhood icons generally don’t. Our fathers had marbles and soapbox derbies—we had skateboards and comic books—our children have X Box. Children tend to be attracted to things on a bright, primal level—and let’s face it, it requires a certain mindset and amount of work to read a comic, especially now that it’s a peripheral medium with an everincreasing shorthand. Is it possible to attract new and younger readers while meeting the demands of an existing audience who expects nothing less than cutting-edge technique and sophisticated storytelling? Frankly, I don’t know the answer. But I suspect things like “compromise” and “homogenization” lie at the heart of it—words not usually associated with the ongoing process of stretching an art form. DF: You work full script. Why? Do you actively dislike “Mar vel style” or just prefer the full script? BJ: I was an artist before I began writing so I guess I tend to come at a story visually anyway. The most exciting part of the comic format for me is the “directing” aspect; I almost hesitate to use that word. Though cinematic similarities are obvious, comics are not movies, nor vice versa. Comics have their own unique pacing, layout, timing and visual energy. You can create a terrific comic with no words, but you can’t do the reverse. A comic without pictures is prose. That said, the influence movies have had on my work is probably obvious. And like movies, this is a collaborative medium. My feeling is that it’s hard enough to get my ideas across even using the full script method; if I go the old “Marvel style” route it makes it even harder for the artist to know what I’m going for. Mind you, I don’t insist he duplicate in the art what I’ve suggested in the script, I just want to give him the benefit of knowing everything I had in mind. I’m also big on pacing, camera angles, what goes on between the panel borders, all of that. Those are my strengths as a writer, maybe more so than what goes into making up the balloons and captions. So I’m naturally going to lean toward my perceived strengths. My experience has been that the great artists—Rich Corben, Berni Wrightson, Russ Heath, John Romita Jr., Mike Deodato—don’t have a problem with this and actually prefer my input. Guys like that will take my own ideas and improve on 8 | WRITE NOW

Two Jones/Corben collaborations. The Corben cover to Twisted Tales #1 and the story “Wolf Girl Eats” from Flinch #1. [Twisted Tales ©2003 Bruce Jones; art ©2003 Richard Corben; Flinch ©2003 DC Comics.]

them, which just makes me look better. It’s often about subtlety of choice, would the scene have more impact if the “camera” were placed here, etc. The great artists know this as well as I do and take a script and just run with it without diluting the author’s intent. The bad artists… well, we’ve all seen where that can lead. This is why it’s so important to work with a terrific editor like an Axel Alonso who sometimes has to strike a happy medium between artist and writer and does so with skill and intelligence. In the end, all the writer can do is try to make his intentions clear. Eventually you just have to let it go. I do the very best I can, then let it go. If the editor or artist feels the finished product doesn’t work—no matter who may be at fault—I feel obligated to jump back in and try to shore up the soft points the best I can with prose. This can actually result in a job that ends up “reading” much better than you may have thought. More often, though, it comes across as exactly what it is—overly expositional and obtrusive copy trying to disguise internal communication gone astray. This is where that word “respect” comes in again; how in sync the writer is with the artist before the job even begins. Mutual respect usually generates complementary collaboration. It’s working so well right now with Mike Deodato on The Hulk I think sometimes the guy is reading my mind. He’s been just

Row). The work-a-day potboiler scribe may find it a bit highgreat. But I’ve been exceptionally lucky and spoiled with all the handed, but really it’s finally very rewarding. Stephen King’s On artists associated with my run on the series. Thank Axel for Writing (Scribner) is worth a look because he’s such an enterthat. taining, accessible writer. His dicta may put off some but he’s DF: Please talk about the realities of breaking into comics dead-on about discipline. The thing is, if you love it, it doesn’t today versus when you did. seem disciplinary. Dean Koontz wrote a couple of entertaining BJ: Despite the ups and downs of the industry, I don’t think the books on writing popular fiction, but they vary wildly in advice rules for breaking in have changed much fundamentally. The giving and should be taken within the context of the times. For three most important things are pretty much irreversible: straight fiction tutorial, you could do worse than Lawrence something to show, someone to show it to, and the Block’s no-nonsense Writing The Novel (Writer’s Digest Books). persistence to keep on showing it. I always tell newcomers who For syntax, etc., you can’t beat Strunk and White’s The approach me at conventions to do the same thing I did: hone Elements of Style. I think writing courses can be useful in the your work at home until you think it’s ready (it probably won’t same way art courses can be useful: you can be guided around be—no matter) leave Peoria or Duluth or where ever you live some early potholes. But maybe it’s really best to earn the and move to New York, start hobnobbing with the other guys bruises from those potholes anyway. Art can’t be taught. The and gals your age trying to get started. Sooner or later you’ll be best way to learn to write is to read. Read a lot. Read all the at a party and someone who knows someone will give you a time. I don’t know a real writer who would argue this. It is, chance to show your stuff. It’s easier if you draw. If you’re a unfortunately, a basically passive, solitary experience for which writer, hang around the editorial offices and make yourself you should probably have the preordained mindset. visible. When they throw you out, come back, be persistent and DF: You seem to take whatever you do in a horror direction. ingratiating at the same time; it’s an acquired skill. Do this What’s the appeal of that genre for you? long enough and eventually they’re going to come up short on BJ: I may take whatever I do in a realistic, even dark direction, something they need written in a hurry, and they’ll hire you just because the “solitary man up against the wall” scenario seems to get rid of you. That’s one of the great pluses of the comics to appeal to me. But I don’t think of myself as a horror writer. If business; unlike movies or novels, there’s quick turnaround you go back and look at much of my so-called horror fiction, I and a regular flow of time-sensitive work whose deadline must think you’ll find an ongoing infatuation with the human be met to prevent this awful domino effect hanging over condition there. None of my novels have been in the horror everyone’s head. No one wants to be responsible for knocking genre, and my TV and movie scripts—even The Hitchhiker over that first domino. Even though this makes for a hectic series—weren’t strictly speaking horror. You get labeled in the business, it also makes for a work-hungry one, even in the lean writing industry. Pigeonholed. Bookstores actually encourage times. Next Wednesday that issue must come out, hell or high this on the dubious premise categorizing authors helps the water. The downside of this, of course, is quality control. It’s not hard for a less than savory writer or editor to take advantage of this voracious demand for pages, start taking on more than he can reasonably handle and get greedy. That seeds destruction for the entire industry. DF: What books must be read? (Lifeenhancing fiction and/or non-fiction.) BJ: If you’re looking to me for a primer on what prose will insure a long and rewarding life, I can’t provide it. What “must” be read are those books you can hardly wait to get to—and to get to over and over again. I think the important thing is to be passionate about reading in general. Surely you should give at least a cursory nod to the classics of fiction, history and biography, but if you love to read, you’ll find a conspiratorial voice out there and devour everything he or she wrote. And if you really love to read, you won’t limit yourself to genre or mainstream. It’s a compulsory act that begins very early by reading every word on the back of the cereal box. If you don’t love to read, you simply won’t make it as a writer. Period. Find something else. Raise horses, become a spy. DF: Are there books on writing you recommend? Writing courses? BJ: The best book on writing I ever read was Annie Dillard’s The Writing Life (Harper & From Mike Deodato, Jr.’s first art job on The Incredible Hulk Vol. 2, #50. Written by Bruce. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] BRUCE JONES | 9

much harder. It’s a two-edged sword; we need new readers, but customer. I wrote for the we can’t afford to piss off the one’s we’ve got. My position on Warren books, therefore I am the recap page is that it should be regarded as a test period— a horror writer. I was just a though as there is no known Nielsen system for evaluating guy doing a job, and that was comic readership, I’m not sure who’s going to do the testing. the genre being offered. I like DF: Ka-Zar, Bruce. That’s some of the best work you ever did. to think I can do just fine with You took flack for it because it changed the character in a romance story, or an some ways, made him modern. No one cared about him aviation story or a sea story before, but when you “revamped” him, people were up in or whatever. There certainly is arms. How did the revamp come about? a dark side to my work. I BJ: I think that was shortly after Weezie left Warren and kind of seem to have this thing about brought me along with her to Marvel. She was just starting out paranoia, I’m not sure why. I there and they had some characters whose licenses they actually had a very happy wanted to keep alive, I think, but whom they had no real sales childhood. Except for that interest in. I believe the theory was something like: they can’t incident with the vampires. screw this up because no one cares anyway. The greatest DF: ‘80s style “what came latitude usually comes when a company either doesn’t care before” recapping style is about the character anymore or the sales are so far down out. Even doing it on the fly they’re desperate for any new and reasonable idea. I remember seems sporadic. Do you hold a lot of behind-the-back smirking. Ka-zar was thought of as this any stock in the old mantra: poor man’s Tarzan—which was certainly true. I remembered “ever y comic is someone’s The cover to Ka-zar The Savage #1. seeing a couple of Tarzan pictures when I was a kid—Tarzan first issue of that title, and Art by Brent Anderson. the Magnificent or Tarzan’s Greatest Adventure or may even be that person’s [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] something—one of Sean Connery’s earliest roles as a villain. first comic ever”? Gordon Scott played the lead. Anyway, the point is, they did it BJ: I can’t not hold stock in it, because it may be true. But I straight. No grunting, no chest thumping. Tarzan was this don’t let a first time reader’s experience dictate how I compose educated, articulate guy who dressed that way because he or pace a book. Look, this whole recap continuity issue has lived in a jungle and it was hot, which kind of made sense. It gotten too much press lately. Yes, most comic books, like soap was just good, intelligent adventure movie making. That may operas or James Bond type franchises do have recurring have been my inspirational template for Ka-zar, I don’t recall themes and substrata story points that often bear repetition or with any great clarity. The entire experience didn’t exactly underscoring as an effort to afford the reader certain guidepropel me to stardom. Neither did my shot at Conan or Red posts. But that’s no less true in a novel or short story, really. Sonja. Chris Claremont ruled the land back then. He was king. Every good writer is conscious of when and how to remind the I was just another working serf in his fiefdom. reader of information he will need to navigate his way to the DF: Did the Ka-Zar revamp influence your approach to your story’s conclusion. The best writers do it so skillfully it feels new take on the Hulk? natural and unobtrusive. The one thing nearly all new writers BJ: No, I was a whole different Bruce back then, with a must learn is how not to call attention to your own voice, not different approach to life and the people around me. You know, let style get between story and reader. At least an opening synop isn’t pretending to be something it isn’t— certainly it’s less irritating than the myriad ads, which not only fight for the reader’s attention but are sometimes downright derailing. There’s nothing worse than spending all week building the pace and flow of a scene for maximum payoff on page 12, only to have the reader turn to page 12 and be greeted by some kid blowing bubble gum in his face. It’s what Disney used to refer to as “bad showmanship”—he would never have stood for all those in-house commercials at the beginning of his video features. At least network ads are placed with a modicum of decorum and sensitivity to viewers. But ad sandwiching has become a necessary evil of the comic industry. And if a first page recap can really draw new readers, who am I to let aesthetics get in the way? As a writer I don’t like it, but I suppose initiated readers can simply skip the first page. But do remember this: there are a limited number of pages in every comic with an ever-increasing cost-ofliving price hike just down the road. As with newspaper work, a comic writer’s sworn duty is to be succinct; its hard enough telling a good story in the limited number of pages currently allocated—cut even one of them for a letters page or a recap and it makes the work that Ka-zar and Shanna at play. Ka-zar the Savage #1, by Jones and Anderson. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] 10 | WRITE NOW

they say writers tend to write about what’s going on both in the outside world and in their own lives. What little I recall of Kazar is that he was this kind of cocky, wise-ass with a penchant for badly timed sexual innuendo. Bruce Banner, on the other hand, is a haunted older man running from a troubled past. Neither is a particularly flattering metaphor for someone’s own life-situation. I guess I’m in deep trouble here. DF: You wrote Conan for a while. Was that fun? BJ: Working with Weezie was always fun. After doing the color comic for a time they gave me the magazine. It was nice to get back into the old black-and-white, oversize format I’d known at Warren, though I don’t think Marvel handled it as well as Warren did, and it was nice having more latitude with what was then a pretty conservative censorship department. I drew some stories for the Conan and science-fiction books back then, some of which still hold up okay I guess. Yeah, I remember those as pleasant days, considering I was having an affair, in the middle of a divorce and moving halfway across the country at the time—while being pissed that some new kid named Spielberg was making better movies than me, based partly on the fact I was making no movies at all. But I knew as soon as I hit Hollywood I’d be brushing aside the likes of Spielberg and Lucas. Right. Uh-huh. DF: Somerset Holmes. Again, a terrific

proper ty that was an early indy vision. In retrospect, how do you feel about it? Any desire to bring it back? BJ: I’m not big on trying to bring things back. It’s nearly always a disaster. Part of what makes anything work is cosmic karma—forces beyond our control. You can’t recreate a moment in time anymore than you can bring back an old girlfriend. She won’t be a girlfriend anymore, just old. You can do it differently, maybe even better, but it won’t be the same because you’re not the same. Those were great days—I was living on this little island on the West Coast working for my own packaging company, creating books distributed through Pacific Comics: total editorial freedom—probably too much freedom— certainly too much work for one guy and his then girlfriend. But I have no desire to revisit the past. Every time I look over my shoulder I see this grinning dufus staring back—it’s just embarrassing. April [Bruce’s wife. —DF] made a great Somerset though. Terrific legs. Terrific everything. Everyone had a crush on her. Brains and beauty, how can you beat it? I think what remains interesting to me about Somerset Holmes is, in retrospect, the number firsts or near firsts it was associated with. We were doing things with printing stock, coloring techniques, painted covers, many things, which later became industry standards. Bill and Steve Schanes should take credit for that. They weren’t the only ones, but I think they left a little imprint in the sand there. We even experimented with 3-D. And it didn’t hurt that we worked with the likes of Brent Anderson, Rich Corben and Al Williamson. It was a very frantic, very exhilarating period. I recall moments of great joy and moments of sheer agony at the daunting responsibility of it all, little of which I handled well. A businessman I’m not. But, it was a good run. There are worst things than writing your own line of books every day, then walking the beach at sunset with a beautiful woman every night. Somerset is what got us into the movie and TV work, the coveted screenwriter’s card. We made a lot of dough, spent it unwisely. But all in all, I think the San Diego days were better than the later LA days. There was a kind of sweet naïveté about Pacific Comics. There’s nothing the least naïve about Hollywood—except the poor flotsam that migrates there every year seeking a better life. DF: The Pacific Comics books. What were you trying to do with

them? Did you think you succeeded? Is there a market for that kind of thing today? BJ: I was trying to offer alternative reading matter to a market flooded largely with super-heroes, while attempting to stretch the boundaries a bit, give our line a more adult look and feel. We were pretty successful in the beginning; the sales figures on the initial issues of Twisted Tales and Alien Worlds you wouldn’t believe—staggering by current standards. I don’t know about doing episodic today. Axel told me once the work we did on the Vertigo anthology titles actually held their own; sales were not strictly a factor in their demise. But I don’t know— short pieces really went out of style in just about every area of entertainment after the ‘60s. It’s a pity, because the short story is a real and difficult art form. But life is faster now; people seem to need recognizable faces and icons to hang on to. In the ‘40s they did movie sequels only if the first was massively popular. Today they do it as a matter of course. Anything with half a recognizable franchise attached is film fodder… a not too subtle comment on the public’s attention span. They’ll make feature films of old Alka-seltzer commercials next, mark my word.

That little white Gumby guy with the tablet hat and squeaky voice—why was he always smiling? Was he really happy, or did tragedy lurk behind that fizzing facade? Now it can be told… DF: If you were 22 today (oh, wait, you are), would you still be getting into comics? BJ: You’re not going to ask me what kind of tree I would be are you? I love those kind of hypothetical questions— obviously, use them in my work all the time. But reality is predicated on so many uncontrollable variables. Presuming I had the same Brent Anderson’s painted cover to brain in a younger body, I Somerset Holmes #2. probably would be doing [©2003 Brent Anderson.] something in the creative arts. But since my childhood surroundings and influences would be different, it’s impossible to say how they would impact on my interests. It’s an interesting question: what would I be like as, say—a rich kid in Germany, or a poverty-stricken one in France? To what degree did I become what I became merely because I was me, or because I was there at that unique instance of time? It’s the old Bradbury Sound of Thunder conundrum. What if I hadn’t had a brother? What if my parents had divorced? What if I was gay? Black? A sexual satyr? Well, okay, I am a sexual satyr, but you know what I mean. I don’t know, it’s interesting to extrapolate on such ideas, but unfortunately or otherwise we’re stuck with a singular path through life. At least until they get this clone thing tweaked. After which I’ll be back after this brief message. DF: You were out of comics for a long while. You “went Hollywood.” Think you’d ever go back there, or have you been-there-done-that? What about the current love affair with comics that Hollywood has? Gonna tr y to cash in? (I’d love to see a Somerset Holmes movie.) BJ: When I started in comics, the only movies even vaguely resembling graphic stories were old Captain Marvel serials. Now a new comic book movie comes out every year, seems like every month. The line is becoming increasingly blurred. Not surprising, I guess, considering contemporary directors were

weaned on comic books. Maybe we’re all doing essentially the same thing—trying to tell stories in a visual way. I might go back to California, and even Hollywood, but here’s the thing: you never really go back to anything, but especially a place like Hollywood which changes flavors monthly via this huge revolving door of producers and studio heads. Even while I was there, I would take a meeting on say the Warners lot on Monday, and by Friday a whole new regime would be in place. One of the eeriest experiences of my life was taking a meeting at ABC on the morning Disney announced its takeover. I remember—and this is the truth—walking down this long row of cubicles to a particular producer’s office and hearing the takeover rumor keeping pace with me as I neared the door. By the time I got into the room for the meeting, the producer was fired and the deal was dead. After you’ve lived out there a number of years you begin to think Hollywood doesn’t really exist at all in the normal sense, that it’s more a state of mind. I’m not the right age now to be just another staff writer again— not unless the rules of ageism have also changed with the wind. I’d probably work somewhere in the independent field.

But really, you don’t have to be in Hollywood anymore to make a film, unless your movie just has to have a studio look—and not even then, really. With the advent of the digital age, virtually anyone can make a movie. What’s still hard and will always be hard is to make a good movie, a worthwhile movie, something that makes all the work and dullness (and the only thing more dull than being on a movie set is watching paint dry) worth yours and the public’s time and money. Whether that means a film that garners millions at the box office or is simply a personal source of pride is up to the maker, I suppose. Every business has its rules, including comics. Those who “make it” in either business are often longer on patience and fortitude than on actual talent. Actual talent is a relative term skewed by everyone shaking hands with it. I firmly believe it is not by mere coincidence words like “skewed” and “screwed” rhyme. DF: Did that movie about the trio of female singers—a “girl group”—gain you any attention in a lasting way? BJ: April and I wrote a lot of movies, the majority of which never made it to the screen. That’s how you make a living out there, working on stuff that never sees the light of day. I think there is a direct link between this kind of activity and cancer. I assume you’re referring to the NBC movie My Boyfriend’s Back with Sandy Duncan. We did that for Interscope a few years back. I literally came up with the idea in 45 seconds at a restaurant in Westlake. Man, that sounds like such a Hollywood story! Yeah, we did all right with it. Every time it played—or still plays—we got a royalty check. Unlike comics, you only have to do a couple of TV movies a year or one feature and you’re covered financially. You spend more time running around studio “housekeeping” trailers or navigating one of those buildings on the Avenue of the Stars negotiating the project than actually writing the script. The good news is that because of the Writer’s Guild West, you get paid in “steps.” so you’re never broke during the course of pre-production, sometimes not even during “development hell.” The bad news is that the time between deals can be excruciatingly long. Good rule of thumb: bank those first paychecks and live thriftily… you may not work again for six months. I, of course, never follow my own advice. DF: What keeps you going through discouraging times? BJ: Two children not yet of college age. DF: Fill in the blank: Talent + ____________= success (however one defines it). BJ: That’s an easy one: hard work, luck and tenacity. Not necessarily in that order. DF: What’s coming up that you’d like to plug? BJ: A lot. None of which I’ve been given permission to discuss. I have several projects in the wings at Marvel right now, but until final approval all must remain silent. There are outlines which must be fussed over, scripts that need tweaking, artists who must commit. But I can say that I’m having a lot of fun with what’s developing so far. Keep your fingers crossed. And best of luck with Write Now!, Danny! DF: Thanks, Bruce. I think you gave people a lot of impor tant information. Keep up the great work! BJ: I’ll give it my best shot. Seeya later.

THE END

BRUCE JONES | 13

Here is the script for the first four pages of Bruce Jones’ first issue of Incredible Hulk, #34. They’re done in the “full script” manner. The artist gets the panel breakdowns and dialogue before he begins to draw. As Bruce says in his interview in this issue of DFWN, though, the artist knows he can make changes if the writer and editor agree they will improve the story. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Says editor Axel Alonso: “In four very streamlined pages, Jones brings readers right into his world, starting ‘in media res.’” [In the middle of a story. —DF] “The script pages are the ‘master file’ that goes to the artist (in this case, John Romita Jr.) and they include some notes from Bruce and myself.” [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

BRUCE JONES | 15

DEPARTMENT

“Can’t Think, Brain Numb, Inspiration Won’t Come” Writer’s Block Without Panic

hen you look up “comics professional” in the dictionary, you’ll find Joey Cavalieri’s picture. From Bugs Bunny to Superman, the guy has indeed done it all. He started and ran Marvel’s acclaimed 2099 line, was longtime group editor of DC’s Superman books, and today edits a distinguished line that include the Geoff Johns/Scott Kolins Flash that has everybody talking, as well as a terrific line of graphic novels by the top creators in the business. Mr. C. has also been known to wear the writer’s hat now and again. So he knows the terror of the blank page—or screen—from both sides: as the editor waiting for the writer to hand in that job— and as the writer, struggling to find the words to finish the assignment and not have the editor hate him. Herewith, Joey gives you the benefit of his struggles with the big B. —DF

Remember that rhyme at the top of the page? Somebody wrote it in my “slambook” at grammar school graduation. I didn’t realize it might turn out to be a curse. Writer’s block’s no fun. You may not even be aware of its worst effect: when it undermines your confidence long after you’ve blown deadlines and aggravated editors. Some people don’t believe “writer’s block” exists. Brother, a week with me and you won’t believe in the existence of writing. I believe in writer’s block with the fervor of a religious fanatic. Would you believe I got writer’s block on the first paragraph of this article?

by JOEY CAVALIERI “Writing” is a misleading verb for the creation of fiction. “Imagining” or “fantasizing” or just plain “thinking” would be more accurate. The “writing” part is about committing these fantasies to print. Well, what worthwhile commitment’s ever easy? Somehow, you’ve decided that you’re not ready for commitment. A frank, even brutal analysis can be your best friend here. Why? Only you know. Use your diagnostic skills on what it is you’re putting down. It’s probably going to be some problem with plot or plausibility. Going deeper, you may have issues with your method or motives for what you’re doing. Clearly, you’re not done thinking it through. No help? Nothing’s jogging the thought process? Try these: 2) Walk. Walking with no destination is liberating, freeing me from the white screen and the cursor blink. It’s the illusion of progress. The events in the story seem to make headway just as I am. What’s going on is that the story is

How do you generate ideas when you don’t have any? How do you keep going when you’re stuck? I’ll share with you the ways I try to get around my blocks. I realize that when anyone tries to codify or set into cold print his or her methods of working, it’s often unintentionally risible. Or like trying to describe your most vivid dream. What’s significant and vital to you becomes oddly dull, flat, colorless and flavorless to someone else. So for the sake of this piece, let’s say that I’m not giving advice to you—I’m giving it to me. I’m composing a list that I can later consult and refer to—I’m just doing it in public. 1) Think a little harder. If you’ve been cruising along and suddenly you’re stuck, you’re stuck for a reason. There’s no magic involved in these fits and starts, nothing mystical in either the smooth flow or the abrupt cessation of writing. There’s often an explanation. To wit: 16 | WRITE NOW

taking and rejecting different “paths” in the back of my mind, like someone on a long amble. Writing’s often a long process of free association, so whatever you encounter along the way might well make its way into your story. 3) Take it somewhere else. My assistant editor at Marvel, Matt Morra, used to call me “the prince of distraction.” If I was writing something and had to check the spelling of a word in a dictionary, pretty soon I’d be waylaid, checking the etymology of “euthanasia,” the pronunciation of “hubristic,” the capital of Mongolia, and five other fascinating diversions that had nothing to do with the issue at hand. Or the phone would ring. Or the mail would show up. Or I’d have my nose in five other books. The only cure was to leave, and leave quickly. Now, my way to leave as often as not is to get on the NYC subway. (Sorry, you out-of-towners.) Riding a subway car with nothing but my notebook for company ensures that something will get written. Wish I had a nickel for every script I’ve edited on the “N” Train. 4) Find a short-term goal. On the other hand, Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing story “Pog,” drawn by Shawn McManus, written to evoke the style of sometimes, when you’re too close to the problem, strip cartoonist Walt Kelly. From Swamp Thing #32. [©2003 DC Comics.] a little distraction is a good thing. Do the dishes. after that respite. In other words, there’s no free ride. Oil the squeaky door. Cook a light meal. Build another 6) If you’re in a box, change the box. One of the characters bookshelf. Sometimes an answer will float to you as you’re in a “Fritz the Cat” strip by Robert Crumb says, “Listen… ya in solving a different problem. Again, the worst effect of writer’s a bag, ya gotta bug out!” Or as my old pals at Marvel, Danny block is the erosion of your confidence. These tasks, shortFingeroth and Tom DeFalco, used to say, “We control the term jobs with a clearly defined and attainable goal, restore horizontal and we control the vertical.” [And we got it from the your self-assurance and give you a sense of accomplishment. opening to the old Outer Limits TV show. —Set-it-straight 5) Take a power nap. What could possibly be more counterDanny.] In other words, change the parameters of the problem. intuitive than hitting the hay when you’re in a tight spot and Write backwards. Write the story in rhyme. Will Eisner did trying to finish a script? But if you’re at your wit’s end anyway, that, a lot. Or as a pop song. Eisner did that, too. Or write it in you’re probably exhausted and you’ll need to start fresh. Your the style of someone else, as a parody of Twain or Dickens or subconscious is working on the story as you sleep. Nice to of yesterday’s Times. Remember Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing have a partner you don’t have to split the check with, isn’t it? story “Pog,” drawn by Shawn McManus, written to evoke the When I was a kid, I read in my trusty, 69-cent copy of The style of strip cartoonist Walt Kelly? How and Why Wonder Book of Chemistry by Freidrich Kekule. Experiment! You can break any of your “normal” modes of He was a chemist in Germany who was burning the midnight working, or any system you’ve previously employed, with the hydrocarbon pursuing a poser that had troubled any number of reasoning that, if they haven’t been working so well prior to this men in his field. Carbon atoms behave as if they have four moment, why should they start working now? The definition of hooks. Hydrocarbon compounds link six carbon atoms in a ring, psychosis, after all, is to do the same thing over and over and connect to hydrogen atoms. But no one could imagine the again and expect different results. (That’s another aphorism I exact configuration, without a hook or two being left over, learned from Tom DeFalco.) unattached. For them to form a compound, they needed to be Write out of order if you have to. If you’ve got a great ending, hooked up to something. write that first. You can work up to it later. Kekule had fallen asleep trying to work it out. He had a Change something. Anything. Hell, delete your name from the dream in which he saw those carbon atoms embraced in a credits and write the draft under an alias if you find that takes dance in his hearth. He later recalled the layout from his the pressure off. Which leads me to: vision, which happened to be correct. He’d worked it out in his 7) Redefine failure. You’ve probably heard this advice before sleep. couched in Oprah-ese as “Give yourself permission to fail.” Sounds crazy? It’s by no means isolated. The mathematician Trust me, failure is always imminent, and nobody needs any Henri Poincare wrote an essay in which he detailed how permission to fail. “unconscious work,” meaning some rest or a walk, would make But let’s adjust our standard of failure, at least for the time a strong impact on the second stretch of “conscious work.” being. Let’s say that writing nothing is “failing.” So writing a Makes sense. So feel free to snooze, or take a bath. How really rotten flurry of pages is immediately preferable to failure. many times have you heard someone say they get their best A bad first draft is better than no draft. As Shakespeare wrote, ideas in the shower? Or, er, somewhere else in the same room. “Nothing will come of nothing.” Poincare did point out, however, that no insights could be Under the gun, some editors will appreciate getting even a gained unless there was a long period of hard work before and CAVALIERI | 17

miserable first draft, as opposed to getting nothing at all, or getting your answering machine. Sometimes, if a writer has a regular assignment with an editor he trusts, he’ll submit the manuscript, warts and all, knowing that he and the editor can work together to cure those warts in the rewrite. I must emphasize the word “trusts” in that scenario, as in both the writer and the editor trust and support each other based on experience. So if you’re thinking of doing this on your first gig, think again. Write, and write junk if you have to. (Hey, I said this would lead to writing. I never said it would lead to good writing.) In any event, even if you feel the editor or the readership will be especially judgmental, writing badly at first is better than freezing up at the keyboard. Work encourages more work. 8) Use the wild card. Introduce a random factor. When I’m totally dry, I play a kind of combination of the I Ching and roulette. On a walk, I’ll “cast” the story with people from the From Flash #176. Written by Geoff Johns, drawn street. Or I can open any by Scott Kolins, and edited by book and see an image, or Joey Cavalieri. [©2003 DC Comics.] light on a word, that will trigger something. Or I’ll force myself to use the word or image in a creative way in a script. Once, editorial guru Julie Schwartz had me open a dictionary and point to a word. Whatever word I chose would be the basis for a story. Was I mad when the word my finger landed on was “horse”! I didn’t relish the prospect of writing Lois Lane into a remake of National Velvet. Eventually, we did get a story out of it, drawn by Bob Oksner as I recall. So I was pleased with the art, at least! I learned to do the same thing with any series of random images: from a couple of art books, from the newspaper, and from the TV. (I don’t need to remind anybody that television is a very powerful narcotic; please use sparingly in this exercise.) Composer Brian Eno, in his journal, A Year With Swollen Appendices, talks about his co-creation, with artist Peter Schmidt, of a card deck called “Oblique Strategies.” Part work of art and part oracle, this “game” allows you to pick a card, on which is printed some aphorism that encourages you to adopt a new attitude toward your art project. The deck includes: “Honour thy error as a hidden intention.”

“Back up a few steps. What else could you have done?” “Faced with a choice, do both.” Even, “Call your mother and ask her what to do.” The Surrealists have done decks like this. Their work, as well as the work of the Dadaists, have continued to be an inspiration right through William Burroughs’ “cut-up” technique of writing a piece, cutting it apart and reassembling it. Similar card decks, intended for writers, have been manufactured lately, but they suffer for being even New Age-ier than the advice you’re getting now. Still, cultivate the unexpected. And in that spirit… 9) Take it all in. People still find it remarkable when contemporary mainstream comic books seem informed by the outside world. Why comics should be so influenced (and why they’re often not) is the basis of another article. But I bring it up to remind you: Source material is everywhere. My former boss and mentor, Joe Orlando, had me read the Wall Street Journal every day. He found it a rich (no class war reference intended) vein of springboards, to say nothing of character motivation. You’ve heard of the profit motive, right? “If you can’t find a story idea in there, you shouldn’t be working in this business,” he’d tell me. But why stop with the daily paper? Jack Kirby, I’ve heard, subscribed to lots and lots of magazines and periodicals, many of which became the basis of his famous collages of Ego the Living Planet and the Negative Zone. To say that Jack was pretty prolific is like saying the Milky Way galaxy is pretty big. Prodigious output requires voracious input. Seen the Mike Leigh film, Topsy-Turvy, about Gilbert and Sullivan? As the film begins, it’s pretty clear that the playwright and composer’s successful run has come to a screeching halt. They’re burned out, their partnership is scorched and the D’Oyly Carte Opera Company may go up in smoke with it. W.S. Gilbert, played by Jim Broadbent, is continually frustrated in his efforts to write anything new. He keeps repeating the same theme over and over. His wife finally convinces him to take a walk away from his work (a diversion!) and attend an exposition of Japanese culture near their London home. England, at that time, was going through a period of Japanomania. The Land of the Rising Sun had just been opened to the West, flooding it with all manner of new styles, fabrics and approaches to art and living. Gilbert was moved enough to collaborate again with Arthur Sullivan to pen The Mikado, an enormous success for the pair. [Both writer and editor highly recommend the video or soundtrack of the version of The Mikado starring Groucho Marx as the Lord High Executioner. —DF] Introduce the random element to your “input hunt,” too. Besides walking into a new gallery or seeking out a different museum, go to the newsstand and pick up a couple of magazines you might not ordinarily try. Or tune in a radio station you’d normally ignore. Me, I go to bookstores—a lot. Not Groucho: a solution to writer’s block? [©2003 Columbia Records.]

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pages to go. The end is a fullalways to buy, but just to see all pager? 18 pages to go. Or maybe that information on the shelves… it’s a series of little stories strung and smash it together mentally. together. Mark Millar once wrote a Creativity is often defined as the great issue of Superman juxtaposition of two disparate ideas Adventures comprised of 22 oneor concepts, or as a way of seeing page stories! No task is so big that familiar things in a new context, or it can’t be broken down. of making new associations And, until you turn the story in, between things. you’re not committed to any of it. 10) Don’t be afraid of the dark. I Rip it up. Borrow panels and pages sometimes write in the dark. It from your “budget” in your outline opens the mind’s eye, and makes and give them back. Start over and the story easier to envision. Who put the pages in another order. can think with all those damn lights 14) Get help. I used to be on? When you’re trying to coax a arrogant enough to pass by the tenuous and fragile idea onto paper, writer’s section at the bookstore, bright light can be inhibiting, intimithinking I knew plenty. Besides, dating and represent far too much wasn’t reading the stuff I admired harsh scrutiny. There’ll be plenty of enough of an education in how to time—and light—for that later. For do it? now, one little table or floor lamp is What did I know? Now I make a all you need. Those @#$% point of seeking out books for computers throw off enough light of writers, even more so now that I’m their own, anyhow. an editor. Why? In the dark, there are no distracThe education of an editor is, tions. There are no walls. There are again, a topic for another time. But no boundaries. There are no limits. any editor needs to be able to articYou are, to refer to Shakespeare ulate to a writer exactly what he again, “a king of infinite space.” wants and doesn’t want. He also 11) Speaking of opening the Writer Mark Millar filled this issue with 22 one-page stories. needs a set of diagnostic skills to mind’s eye… Know anything about Cover art by Mike Manley & Terry Austin. [©2003 DC Comics.] understand how to detect and fix meditation or yoga? You may want aspects of a script that might be going badly. So does that to apply some of those principles here. writer. This sort of brings us back to #1 above, doesn’t it? 12) Doodle. I’m lucky because I’m an art school grad and I Besides, any excuse to get some new books is a good one. can draw to some extent. So, when I’m trying to get a story to And eventually, you’ll get back to writing again. coalesce, I sketch possible layouts or breakdowns. I can more easily get a grasp on the look of the characters, their environment, their actions, be they broad or intimate. It also BIBLIOGRAPHY gives me a schematic or a dummy of my script, akin to a storySome books to check out when you’re stuck. board for a movie. This method, if done well, has the advantage of making it extremely easy to edit scenes. At a Block, Lawrence. Telling Lies for Fun and Profit. Arbor glance, I can tell if a character’s action, a panel, or a whole House, 1981. page, is extraneous. Eno, Brian. A Year With Swollen Appendices. Faber and When I first broke into comics, I did this for every story, Faber Ltd. 1996. largely because I was still learning the grammar and the limits Ghiselin, Brewster, ed. The Creative Process. New American of the form. I needed to know how much visual information— Library, 1952. actions, backgrounds, balloons—I could cram into a panel. The Goldberg, Natalie. Writing Down the Bones. Shambhala only way to do that was to see it all for myself. Often, I would Publications, 1986. submit these thumbnails along with my script to the editor— Lamott, Anne. Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing who would often pass them along to the artist. It was always and Life. Doubleday, 1995. surprising to see which artists would take different approaches McKee, Robert. Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the entirely… and which would follow them very closely! Principles of Screenwriting. [Reviewed last issue. —DF] 13) Focus. “The art of writing is the art of applying the seat HarperCollins, 1997 of the pants to the seat of the chair.” (I’ve seen that quote Nelson, Victoria. On Writer’s Block. Houghton Mifflin, 1993 attributed to Balzac, but an online search reveals it was Rhodes, Richard. How to Write: Advice and Reflections. espoused by the writer Mary Heaton Vorse, who I won’t pretend William Morrow, 1995. to have read.) There’s no substitute for the brute force method. Ueland, Brenda. If You Want to Write. Graywolf Press, 1987. Get out that yellow-lined legal pad, and just chart and outline again and again the twenty-two pages or the three acts or Oh yeah, and… whatever it takes. Grit your teeth and chip away at it slowly. If Keen, Martin L. The How and Why Wonder Book of it’s twenty-two pages, say, then the first page is the splash. 21 Chemistry. Grosset & Dunlap, 1961. pages to go. The next two pages are a double-page splash. 19

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CAVALIERI | 19

State-Of-The-Art Editing

The AXEL ALONSO Interview Conducted via e-mail December 23, 2002 Edited by Danny Fingeroth / Copy-edited by Axel Alonso

xel Alonso has played a key role in Marvel’s current renaissance. Tapped by incoming Marvel President Bill Jemas and Editor In Chief Joe Quesada in 2000 to direct the Spider-Man line, Alonso’s mandate has since expanded to include The Incredible Hulk (just in time for the movie), Wolverine, and special projects that include, among other things, Max titles like Cage and Fury. He also spearheads three of Marvel’s most high profile and controversial books—X-Force (now X-Statix), Truth: Red, White & Black and the upcoming Rawhide Kid—each of which has garnered international press. Born and raised in San Francisco, CA, Alonso attended the University of California at Santa Cruz, where he earned a BA in Sociology in 1988, arranging his classes around a 5 a.m.to-noon job as a produce truck driver. After moving to New York City in 1988, Alonso worked as a freelance journalist for several years—as an editor and reporter, reporting on arts, culture, law and politics—and eventually attended Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, where he got an MS in Journalism in 1993. Leaving journalism, Alonso worked for DC’s Vertigo imprint from mid-’94 until late 2000, where he carved his own niche for himself. Among the books he edited there: Preacher, 100

Bullets, Hellblazer, assorted mini-series (Unknown Soldier, Human Target, etc.) and the Vertigo anthologies—Gangland, Heartthrobs, Weird War Tales, Strange Adventures and Flinch—which he started. Then, in 2000, Marvel Knights editor Joe Quesada was tapped to become Marvel’s new Editor In Chief, Axel received the call, and the rest is history. In the e-mail interview that follows, Axel gives us some important insights into the person and the thought processes behind the editorial decisions of some of today’s most important comics. Writers, especially, should read carefully to glean ideas about what one of the industry’s top editors thinks about the issues of the day. Writers, editors and rubberneckers alike should also pay close heed to Axel’s Nuts & Bolts article, “Script Triage,” elsewhere in this issue. It’s a “how-to” on comics editing that contains vital information for those on both sides of the desk. —DF DANNY FINGEROTH: What in your background do you think led you to where you are today, Axel? AXEL ALONSO: I’d never considered a career in comics until it was offered to me. Oddly enough, everything led me to it. I grew up reading comics as a kid; I have schooling in art and writing, and professional experience in journalism. DF: Did your parents encourage creativity? Discourage it? AA: When I was little, my mother was a librarian, so she

A collection of Alonso-edited covers for a variety of imprints. Marvel/Max’s Cage #5 (art by Richard Corben); DC/Vertigo’s Flinch #1 (painted cover by Phil Hale); and Marvel Comics’ Truth: Red, White & Black #1 (art by Kyle Baker). [Cage & Truth ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Flinch ©2003 DC Comics.] 20 | WRITE NOW

comics to keep me out of her hair. Smart lady. I read a little bit of everything—Hulk, Spider-Man, Batman—but I tended to gravitate toward offbeat characters like Luke Cage, The Unknown Soldier, Black Panther and Shang-Chi. I also loved all the Kirby books, especially New Gods—those characters were crazy. DF: Who were/are your great influences as writers, directors, novelists, etc? AA: Jack Kirby, Jim Thompson, Will Eisner, Yukio Mishima, Steranko, James Dickey, Richard Corben, David Lynch, Thom Jones, Frank Miller, Kubert & Kanigher, Kurosawa, whoever created Speed Racer, Dr. J. DF: Were there any influential relatives, friends, or teachers who were instrumental in your development toward journalism and then comics? AA: When I was a boy, my father made the single-most profound editorial comment I’ve ever heard. We’d just seen Jaws. Leaving the theater, I told him how much I dug the movie. He nodded, just shook his head, and said, “They shouldn’t have shown the shark,” words that have stuck with me to this day. However terrifying the shark looked when he rose up out of the water and snacked on Robert Shaw, he was far more terrifying out of sight—in the corridors of my imagination. Less is more. But the driving force was probably my mother. When I was about 10 or 11, my class was given a book report assignment. Most of my friends did theirs on Tolkein or S.E. Hinton or whoever; I did mine on James Dickey’s Deliverance. I loved that book, so my book report was massive and very thorough. My teacher took exception to the fact that I was reading a book that advanced, and gave me an F. My mom—a very gentle and polite woman—wasn’t having it. She did something very uncharacteristic. She stormed down to my school and said,

encouraged me to read any which way she could. She saw comics for what they were—a valuable tool through which I could learn to enjoy reading. My father definitely encouraged my artistic side. A dental surgeon who sculpted in his spare time, he made a weekly habit of taking me to the various museums around San Francisco. He’d set me up with an easel and I’d paint and draw and look at the paintings. We’d spend entire afternoons doing this. At the end of the day, he’d go up to a stranger, wink, and ask them, “So, if you saw this fine piece of art in a gallery, what would you pay for it?” Then he’d purchase my drawing for whatever they said—a dime, a quarter, whatever—and I’d spend the money on more art supplies. It was here that my father seeded the crazy notion that I could actually get paid to do something I enjoyed. DF: Did you grow up reading comics? If so, what were your favorites? How do they affect how you edit today? If not, how has that helped and/or hur t your editing? AA: I sure did. On Fridays, my mother worked late, so my grandmother would pick me up after school and buy me a couple of

repor ter, an editor? Tell us a little about your career in journalism, how it began and how it evolved. AA: I’ve worked in magazines and newspapers—writing and editing. I started doing small articles for newspapers and magazines—from broad-interest newspapers like The New York Daily News to specialized journals like the super-sexy World Arbitration and Mediation Report. After a two-year stint editing for a feature magazine in the San Francisco Bay Area, I got an editorial position with Editor & Publisher magazine in New York. I wrote articles about arts and culture, politics and law, and made the decision to get my Master’s at Columbia University. My intent was to focus on, of all things, political journalism. In the end, however, grad school merely underscored something I already suspected: I was not what you’d call a “News Man.” I did not have a burning desire to be an information broker, to “get the scoop.” I could do it, but I was far more Two beginnings:. X-Force #116 & X-Statix #1. Art by Michael Allred. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] interested in the details of the story. My best journalism was always the stuff that had more of a narrative, where characters evolved, themes “Thanks, but I’ll determine what my son can and can’t read.” emerged, and actual stories were told. And guess what? I got an A-minus. DF: What do you think that journalism background gives you DF: You answered a blind ad in the NY Times to get your first that other people coming to comics don’t have? job in comics. What was that job, and why do you think they AA: Journalism helped me refine the craft of writing and picked you over people who probably had more background in editing. Working under deadline pressures and within strict comics? space limitations helped me to boil down stories to their AA: It was ‘94. DC was advertising for editorial positions. I essence. My editorial voice emerged. submitted my resumé. The editor I interviewed with—Lou DF: Denny O’Neil was a journalist, too. Any other comics pros Stathis—and I just hit it off. We had similar backgrounds and star t that way? interests, and he liked my clips. It’s fair to say I was overqualAA: The guy who hired me: the late Lou Stathis. ified for the position; it was not a lateral move. DF: Do you recommend journalism as training? Why or why DF: Had you ever had any desire to work in comics before you not? answered that ad? AA: I recommend any sort of formal training. Being paid to AA: I’d never considered working in comics until I saw that ad write for a living is a privilege. The minimum a writer or editor in the Times. To be honest, I never thought I’d be offered the owes his audience is control of his craft. job. I just thought it would be a hoot to check out the DC DF: Have you ever, or would you want to, write comics? Comics offices. Again, why or why not? DF: Did you ever tr y to migrate to the more mainstream DC AA: Sure. I have written for other media so I’m curious. books, or were you happy with the Ver tigo niche? However, I am not an editor whose real desire is to be a fullAA: I loved the niche I found at Vertigo, but that didn’t preclude time writer. I like it just fine on my side of the desk. an interest in more mainstream stuff. At Vertigo, I was always DF: Do you write anything these days, comics, journalism, interested in bringing the mainstream into the alternative, but I whatever? If not, would you like to? always wondered what it would be like to bring some kind of AA: Currently, the only writing I do is a function of my job as an different energy to, say, Wonder Woman. Truth is, I like both. editor. There are occasions where I need to be more aggressive Most of the industry professionals who publicly turn up their in my editing—reworking scene structure, revising dialogue, etc. noses at super-heroes are just corny. And the folks who DF: What is the comics editor’s job? How has it changed over dismiss “mature readers” books seem to think comics is just a the years? genre, not a medium. AA: A comic book editor is paid for his taste, his judgment, and DF: What did you want and/or study to be when you were in the strange voodoo that he brings to shaping his projects. A school? comics editor’s job has many aspects: advocating for and AA: I loved reading and writing, and I wanted to be paid to do acquiring new projects, or picking the right talent for the title at that. My schooling reflects this—a bachelor’s in sociology from hand; optimizing the performance of that talent (keeping them UCSC [The University of California at Santa Cruz], three honest, on track and, even better, inspired); and figuring out semesters of art school [The Academy of Art in San Francisco], ways for his project not to get lost in the shuffle. and a Master’s in Journalism from Columbia University. DF: Who are your editorial role models, past and present, and DF: You star ted professionally in journalism. Were you a 22 | WRITE NOW

why? AA: Archie Goodwin is my hero; he had a complete game. You could see his fingerprints in his work. Joe Quesada has great instincts and sees the Big Picture. Karen Berger certainly left her mark with Vertigo. DF: You seem to work with a lot of established talents. Do you also work with newcomers with potential? Do you see your job as having any sor t of teaching function? AA: Most of the writers I currently work with—Peter Milligan, Bruce Jones, Garth Ennis—are writers with whom I’ve had longstanding relationships. I worked with Peter and Garth before they hit it big. Bruce, of course, was a living legend who’d dropped off the map when I started working with him. At Marvel, I continue to look for new writers, even if I have less time to do so. I established the Vertigo anthologies [Gangland, Heartthrobs, etc.] for several reasons, one of which was to provide an outlet for new talent and a crop of new talent did, indeed, emerge from them—Azzarello, Rucka, Rodi, Frusin, Risso. Spider-Man’s Tangled Web has also provided me with an outlet to break new writers into the field—among them, Daniel Way, Zeb Wells, and the winged and horned Antichrist known as Ron Zimmerman. DF: What do you look for in a writing submission? AA: A unique voice. A point-of-view. A semblance of craft. With Brian Azzarello, I saw unique rhythm to his dialogue and an interest in themes that I personally wanted to integrate into the Vertigo line. With Daniel Way, whose self-published ashcan Violent Lifestyle knocked me out, I saw a writer with an ear for the way lowlifes talk, and a sick sense of humor. DF: How many cold writing submissions do you get in a month? How many—if any—do you read? AA: Too many to read. A dozen a day, maybe more. A quantity that I cannot read; my assistants try to keep up. DF: Any advice for aspiring writers and editors on how to

break in or on anything else? AA: To the aspiring writer: You’re going to need to be good and lucky. The first you can work on; the second may look like it’s out of your control, but you can do things to make your own luck. If you really want to show an editor what you’re made of, then go ahead and show them. Script a story or even just a scene, find a worthy and willing artist to illustrate it, and make an ashcan. I can’t speak for other editors, but I always give ashcans that people provide me with at least a cursory look. If Daniel Way hadn’t produced Violent Lifestyle, I wouldn’t know who he is. DF: Mar vel style versus full script: Do you prefer either, or is it a matter of what a writer (and ar tist) are comfor table with? Why? AA: I don’t work in what people call “Marvel-style”; I prefer “full-script.” Like a screenplay, a full-script allows everyone to be on the same page—writer, editor and artist. Everyone can feel the pacing, the mood, etc. But a full script should be an organic thing—the artist’s input is always welcome. If he visualizes a scene in a different way, if he can improve the art direction or pacing or whatever, all he needs to do is make a suggestion. Virtually all of the writers I work with use full script, but all, to some degree or another, understand that their artist has latitude. DF: Any books or courses on writing, drawing or editing that you recommend? AA: A lot of comics folks bash Robert McKee’s Story, but I don’t. If nothing else, that book provides a valuable guide to story mapping. I recently took his three-day seminar and it’s excellent. I also recommend William Goldman’s Adventures in the Screen Trade. DF: Any books in general that you recommend? AA: Tim O’Brien’s The Things They Carried, Thom Jones’s The

Pugilist At Rest, Yukio Mishima’s Runaway Horses. James Dickey’s Deliverance, Stephen Hunter’s Dirty White Boys, David Sedaris’ Barrel Fever, Katherine Dunn’s Geek Love. DF: You go in day in and day out and work your butt off. But a lot of people do that. How do you think you got to become what some people regard as the “hottest editor in comics”? AA: Every editor is someone’s favorite editor and someone’s least favorite editor. I take the accolades and the hate mail with a grain of salt. The opinions that really matter to me are those of the writers and artists I work with, and my own little focus group of friends. DF: Continuity: threat or menace? AA: Neither. It’s a tool that is too often used as a crutch. DF: Do you ever rewrite a writer, either with or without his or her permission? AA: On the occasions when I need to rewrite—when deadline pressure or some other factor requires that I really use my red pen—I always engage the writer in a full discussion of the changes. When I do this, I normally have a relationship with the writer that is based on mutual trust. DF: Favorite comics, movies, TV series? AA: Comics: Love & Rockets, Stray Bullets, The Ultimates, Eightball, anything by Darwyn Cooke, practically anything by Frank Miller. Movies: Seven Samurai, The Long Good Friday, Unforgiven, A Clockwork Orange, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Blue Velvet, and there is never a time that I could not watch

John Carpenter’s The Thing. TV series: The Simpsons, The Sopranos. Other than that, I watch little TV, mostly basketball. DF: Who are Mar vel superhero comics intended for? AA: Marvel super-hero comics are intended for a broad range of readership. That does not mean, however, that each title should be accessible to anyone between the age of 10 and 40, as some would insist. God help the 40-yearold who’s got the same tastes and interests as a 10-year-old. DF: My pet peeve: Ever yone seems to have written off the kid audience for comics. Where’re the new readers going to come from? Why does it have to be either/or? Can’t there be some comics for kids, some for adults and some for both? Harry Potter seems to not suffer from the crossover audience. Ditto for The Simpsons. AA: I haven’t given up on the “kid audience.” And Marvel hasn’t. But kids—whether they’re 5 or 10—are not as naïve and dim-witted as their self-elected protectors make them out to be. Pre-teens and teens looking for entertainment in a reading experience—as opposed to a video game—want to be challenged by what they read. They can smell adult condescension from a mile away. It isn’t they who want comics for

simpletons—23-page fight scenes between musclemen who speak in declarative sentences—it’s a bunch of 40-year-olds that do. Some of the industry professionals who complain loudest about this alleged problem do nothing in their own work to serve this purpose. A lot of the creators who publicly pontificate about how much they care about that 10-year-old reader should take a good long look at their own work. The scantily clad women with missile-shaped breasts, the purposeless fight scenes, the corny, surface-level dialogue, the tired plots. DF: The Hulk: What was it that made you feel Bruce Jones would be the guy to give it new direction? AA: Bruce Jones excels with characters that are tortured souls, who want to be better men. And who is Bruce Banner but that? I grew up reading Bruce Jones’ Warren work; I figured he could flourish in the mainstream if someone let him play to his strengths. He thinks it’s a scream that, after 30 years, he’s finally an “It” boy. DF: How do you work with Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas? Do you discuss general directions with them? Or do they just see the issues when they come out? AA: I have a lot of autonomy. Bill and Joe both see The Big Picture. Rarely do they fret the details of my books. DF: X-Statix (formerly X-Force) and The Truth, while cer tainly well done, definitely have a high promotional/publicity component. Are projects like that favored in the current comics market, just to get visibility for the project and the company? AA: If you’re asking, “Does Marvel favor projects that will get it visibility?” The answer to that question is no. We favor comics that are accessible and entertaining, that reflect the world we live in. If a project taps a cultural vein, we will not shy away from promoting that aspect of the book. Why should we? None of the high-profile projects I’ve edited—Truth, X-Statix or Rawhide Kid—were conceived with the notion that we were going to garner nationwide press. It wasn’t hype that garnered X-Force a favorable review in the New York Times Book Review; it was Peter and Mike’s execution. It wasn’t hype that garnered Truth nationwide press coverage and a glowing op-ed in the New York Times, it was Robert and Kyle’s execution. And it wasn’t hype that garnered Rawhide Kid international press coverage, it was the resonance of the high concept and the substance of the preview issues that were supplied to the media. Why is the outside world fascinated by the premise of these projects while a few vocal fans and industry professionals whine? I don’t know. Fact is, Truth and Rawhide Kid are projects that are rooted in questions that cut to the heart of some basic suppositions about some Marvel icons. They are also rooted in reverence for the characters—reverence that was quickly acknowledged by the original creators. Stan Lee himself told me that “outing” the Rawhide Kid was a great idea, and went on CNN’s “Crossfire” to defend it; and John Severin was down for this book from day one. One veteran comic writer went so far as to state publicly that I had been duplicitous with John Severin, keeping him in the dark about the high concept that drives Rawhide Kid. John and I could only laugh—that makes me the most evil editor in the business, and him the dumbest artist! Same thing for Truth. Stan voiced his support for the high concept behind Truth in Entertainment Weekly. And Joe Simon, who created Captain America with Jack Kirby, voiced

his support for it in the New York Daily News. Yet still, a number of very vocal industry professionals and fans continue to grumble. Are they suggesting that Joe doesn’t understand his own character? DF: Was it culture shock to come over to Mar vel? What made them want you to edit super-hero stuff as opposed to doing offbeat Ver tigo-type material? AA: It was culture shock coming to Marvel. Marvel is like the Wild West. Why Bill and Joe wanted me to edit Spider-Man or Hulk, I don’t know, but I was grateful for the challenge. DF: Was it hard to go from Ver tigo material to mainstream super-hero stuff? AA: Basic rules apply to both. The main thing that’s different is the parameters within which I work, and the bottom-line imperative that comes with editing Spider-Man or Hulk. DF: Do you have a mandate, spoken or unspoken, to “Ver tigoize” the mainstream titles you edit and/or to create some “Ver tigo-esque” titles at Mar vel? ALONSO continues on page 27

DEPARTMENT

Script Triage In 5 Simple(?) Steps

When you’re a comics editor, sometimes a script hits your desk that just isn’t all it could be. How did it get that way and, more importantly, how do you fix it? (And all the while the artist is waiting for a script to draw and your managing editor is yelling at you to stay on schedule.) What do you do? Where do you start? Well, I imagine that the script is a “patient” in triage, and act accordingly. Generally, the more seasoned your writer, the lower the margin of error. When you’re working with any writer, however, the more you can agree on up-front, the better. For less experienced writers, I ask for a “beat sheet” or “story map” that will allow me to see the structure of the story as it unfolds, scene by scene; a “story map” is done for each issue in the arc, allowing me to track the super-story and the subplots. This lowers the margin of error.

by AXEL ALONSO Step 1: Examine your “patient” and determine his or her status. How serious are the wounds and where are they? Are you looking at a scraped knee, or is your patient gut-shot? If you’ve discussed the story with your writer, or if they’ve provided you with a “beat-sheet” or “story map” of the issue, then your margin of error should be low. Nonetheless, there are several things an editor needs to consider when a script hits his or her desk: story structure, pacing, dialogue, and characterization. All of these factors contribute to a sound script, but some need to be addressed immediately since they will affect your artist’s ability to do his job. While dialogue can be fixed after the art is drawn, flawed pacing ends up in the artist’s lap.

Step 2: If you’ve determined that your patient IS “wounded,” then figure out IF he can be saved. Sometimes scripts can’t be saved. Their pulse is weak. If there’s little evidence that the script is going to be what you and the writer had hoped for, then it probably suffers from a structural deficiency that you’re going to have to figure out right away. Ask yourself, does the problem call for a ground floor rewrite... or is the structural deficiency limited to one or two scenes?

Step 3: If you’ve determined that the patient CAN be saved, then prioritize the steps to treatment. This is the point at which you must be ready to explain to your writer why the script isn’t working, and suggest possible strategies to fix the problem. The most important thing: Treat gunshot wounds first. If you start placing bandages on minor nicks and cuts, your patient could die on the table. There’s no point in tweaking dialogue or art direction when the story is built on quicksand. Prioritize your time: Underline what you perceive to be the structural deficiencies of the script, and work with your writer to resolve those first.

Step 4: Once you’ve dealt with life-threatening injuries, move on to the scrapes. At this point, your writer should be able to turn around a revised script that adequately addresses your concerns. The hardest part is over. Now it’s time for you to deal with the nicks and cuts—the details in dialogue, art direction, pacing, etc., that could be improved.

Step 5: Once you’ve determined the “patient” is fine, then send it home, and admit the next “patient.” What’s more to say? From Congo Bill #4, edited by Axel Alonso for Vertigo. Written by Scott Cunningham and drawn by Danijel Zezelj. [©2003 DC Comics.] 26 | WRITE NOW

THE END

ALONSO continued from page 25

AA: Not at all. And I don’t think I have “Vertigo-ized” the titles I work on. Pick up an issue of Amazing Spider-Man—it’s a widescreen action epic. Hulk is a psychological thriller. X-Statix is a crazy team-book that’s equal parts homage and parody. My Max titles may have more overlap with my Vertigo work. Certain characters benefit from wider parameters. Frank Cho is currently working on a Shanna limited series that will knock people out. He would not have been able to do it without the increased freedom. DF: What’s your feeling about the “pamphlet” versus the paperback? Are 32-page comics on the way out? Is it necessar y to give a complete stor y with a beginning, middle and end in each issue, even if that stor y is par t of a larger stor y arc? AA: First of all, I hate the term “pamphlet.” It’s a political term whose roots aren’t domestic. It’s coined to disparage the format, trivialize it. I grew up pulling a “comic” from a dimestore rack, not “pamphlet.” As for the debate itself, I think there’s plenty of room for both formats. Some material really benefits from a serialized read; some is better processed as a trade. DF: How impor tant is recapping—bringing readers up to date each issue? Do you subscribe to the ideas that editors of my generation were trained in, that each issue is someone’s first issue of that title—and possibly someone’s first comic ever? AA: I’ve heard that statement a thousand times, and while I think its intent is marvelous, I’m skeptical about its execution and its results. The way I see it, a comic book costs between $2.25 and $3.50 for a 22-page read. My responsibility is to make sure that book is worth your money—that you enjoy it enough to keep coming back for more. So every page is crucial. Spending three to four pages recapping all the minutia—who Iron Man is, what his powers are, who the bad guy is, what his powers are, what brought them to this place, etc.—in order to fool-proof it for a “cold reader” is less crucial to me than using the full 22 pages to fully entertain the regular reader and intrigue a “cold reader” enough to come back for more. An analogy: If you were to turn on an episode of a show you’d never seen before—say, Happy Days—would you need to have all the minutia of the back-story spelled out to you in order to fully appreciate it? Would you need to immediately understand the roles that each character plays in the story? I mean, Fonzie’s cool. Ralph Malph’s a dork. Potsie’s a bigger dork. Richie Cunningham is the All-American Boy. Their “Universe” is Mel’s Diner and the Cunningham house. These details—the alliances and pecking order and feuds—are established gradually in the course of an episode, through the characters’ behavior, not through clunky captions and expository dialogue. Fact is, a “cold viewer” doesn’t need to know ever ything about the Happy Days Universe to appreciate an episode. He’s going to make a decision to stay tuned, or not, based on how entertained he was by what he saw—and if he’s sufficiently entertained, he’s going to stick around to get his questions answered. That said, Marvel has implemented a policy where all titles have a recap page, which simplifies things a bit. DF: If comics went away, or if you felt you had to leave, what would you do instead? AA: I’d probably go back into some other form of print media. Maybe magazines.

DF: Do you have any interest in getting involved with movies or TV? Or novel writing or editing? AA: It’s intriguing, but it isn’t a goal. I don’t view comics as a stepping-stone to Hollywood. As for book publishing, a major book publisher approached me once, and I considered making the leap. The more I thought about it as a reality, the more I realized I’d miss comics. DF: What’s coming up that you’d like to plug? AA: If you’re 18 or older, Rawhide Kid. The universe of a Western is simple: The men drink whiskey, the women stay at home, the hero rides a white horse, the bad guys wear black. We thought it would be interesting to play with the archetypes, to produce a straight Western with a nonstraight lead. [Rawhide Kid is revealed to be gay in the limited series. —DF] The results are fun. Enigmatic cowboy rides into dusty desert town on a white horse, battles thieving desperadoes, then rides off into the sunset looking better than any cowboy has a right to. Watching, the sheriff scratches his chins and says, “There’s something about that cowboy... I can’t quite put my finger on it, but...” DF: Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Axel. You’ve given me and the DFWN readers much food for thought. AA: No problem.

THE END

ALONSO | 27

NOT The Last

Dennis O’Neil Interview

Interviewed in person by Danny Fingeroth August 22, 2002 Edited by Danny Fingeroth / Copy-edited by Dennis O’Neil Transcription by the LongBox.com Staff & Danny Fingeroth

This interview was originally scheduled to appear in DFWN #2. But then, a couple of weeks after it was recorded, Denny had a major “coronary incident,” leading to quadruple bypass surgery, which left him a tad preoccupied with other matters than copy editing the interview. Fortunately, the surgery went well, as is his recovery, and Denny is now able to take time for the really important things in life—like copy editing the interview. I’m very pleased to have The Gentleman Beatnik’s views and experiences in print here in the mag. And I’ve especially pleased that this did not turn out to be the last Dennis O’Neil interview. —DF

or over 20 years, editor and writer Dennis O’Neil put the “dark” in the Dark Knight and was the guiding force behind the Batman mythos. He has been called a living legend, a master of the comics form and the dean of American comics writers. He prefers to think of himself as, simply, “a working professional storyteller.” Dennis, a native St. Louisan and graduate of St. Louis University, began his writing career as a newspaper reporter in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, over thirty years ago. Intrigued by the creative revival of comics in the mid-’60s, he came to New York as Stan Lee’s editorial assistant at Marvel Comics. Next, he did freelance writing at Charlton Comics under editor Dick Giordano. When Giordano moved to DC Comics in 1967, he brought Dennis with him. There, Dennis scripted such titles as Wonder Woman, The Justice League of America and, notably, 13 issues of Superman, a run some aficionados say is a high point in the character’s long history. In 1968, following the cancellation of the Batman television show, editor Julius Schwartz asked Dennis to revamp DC’s Dark Knight. Dennis and artist Neal Adams took the character

28 | WRITE NOW

back to his roots and, adding sophistication and their own unique vision, created the version of Batman which has been an inspiration for the Emmy-winning Fox cartoon series, the mega-budget Warners movies and, of course, the current comics. In 1970, Dennis again collaborated with Neal Adams and Julius Schwartz to produce the Green Lantern-Green Arrow series that first brought him into national prominence. This series earned praise, awards and media attention for its groundbreaking combination of flamboyant fantasy with genuine social concerns such as racism, drug addiction, environmental dangers and Native Americans’ problems. During his 30-year career, Dennis has written stories for almost all of DC and Marvel’s major titles, including SpiderMan, Hawkman, The Atom, Iron Man, Daredevil and The Question, a series that combined authentic martial arts action with thoughtful plots and is credited with being a forerunner of today’s “mature reader” comics. Dennis’ comics work has been only a part of his career. He has edited Newsfront Magazine and has written short

stories, articles and reviews for a wide variety of publications including Gentleman’s Quarterly, Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine, New York, The Village Voice, Coronet, The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction and Publishers Weekly. He has had five teleplays produced, adapted the four Batman movies into comic book form and is the author of several novels and nonfiction books, including a guide to writing comic book scripts published in June, 2002, by Watson-Guptil. One of his most significant achievements was converting 1,162 pages of comic book continuity into a hard cover novel, which became a national best seller: Knightfall, published by Bantam Books. While he was writing the novel, he was also assisting with the adaptation of the Knightfall storyline for England’s BBC radio An expert on comics, pop culture and folklore/mythology, Dennis is a popular guest at conventions and has been heard on literally hundreds of radio shows. He has appeared on dozens of television programs, including The Today Show, Entertainment Tonight, Extra, NBC Nightly News, Fox News, Fox Morning Show, Real News for Kids, The Anti-Gravity Room and the Disney Channel’s Audubon Show. He has been interviewed internationally on the BBC, Australian, French, Mexican, Chilean and Canadian television. Dennis has taught writing at the School of Visual Arts in Manhattan and lectured at the Open Center in New York City. He has also lectured at numerous colleges and universities including New York University, Fairleigh-Dickenson, Penn State, Tufts, St. Louis University, Indiana State University, the State University of New York at Stony Brook, City University of New York, UCLA, Atlantic College, the Philadelphia College of Art, Webster University, MIT, and The Learning Annex. For 15 years, until his retirement in February, 2001, Dennis was a group editor at DC where, in addition to editing the Batman titles, he wrote (and continues to write) a monthly title he created, Azrael (which will bow out in a few months after its landmark 100th issue), helped make policy decisions and co-supervised a large editorial staff. He now serves DC as an editorial consultant. In April, 1999, two Californians, Bob Brodsky and Kevin Hanley, began publishing The O’Neil Observer, a quarterly magazine devoted to articles about Dennis and the craft of comics writing. In November of the same year, a Midwesterner, Scott McCullar, created a website to augment the magazine. Dennis currently lives in Nyack, New York, with his wife, Marifran. DF: This is Write Now! with Dennis O’Neil, living legend. We’re sitting here in his huge emeritus office at the DC Comics building, with Dennis drinking some ambrosia provided by the company. DO: Provided by me putting it in my suitcase. This is green tea and very healthy. Comic book people generally do not eat or drink very healthy things. DF: Let’s star t with some basic Dennis O’Neil background for anybody benighted enough not to know it, and then go into Denny-specific and industr y-related questions. Where are you from, Dennis? DO: St. Louis, Missouri. DF: Any creative writers or ar tists in your family? DO: Not officially. I have four brothers and one of them wrote some poetry as a kid and has been a weightlifter and a

bouncer and a general all-around tough guy, truck driver kind of guy, and he recently said he still indulges in poetry. My mother told me about a dozen years ago that, every Valentine’s Day, my father gave her a poem. She’s never shown me any of them and I had no any idea that my father ever did that. I never saw a trace of it. He was a newspaper reader and a religiouspamphlet reader. I never saw any other kind of interest and when she told me it surprised the heck out of me. I had an uncle that loved to tell stories and take pictures, but not professionally. I think I was the first to go to college. My family was traditionally merchants and construction people. My father owned a grocery store and my brothers own four in the St. Louis area. We’re a very blue-collar, Irish Catholic family. Things like writing and acting were not for real people. You were never in the same room with anybody who did things like that. Newspaper reporters, maybe. When I did that, they understood. The other stuff was not anything that was on anybody’s radar. You never met in your everyday life a professional writer. You may have met a university guy who might have published something. But, basically, someone who makes his living doing something creative was non-existent. It was not in anyone’s experience. DF: Was it tough for you to break out of that expectation pattern? Since a journalist was something they could understand, is that why you went into journalism, because you wouldn’t get too much opposition for it? DO: I think I was pretty muddled coming out of college and had O’NEIL | 29

DO: No. I have a feeling that he was probably a very conservative guy, but I was not much into politics then and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to ask or even notice what his politics were. I may be completely wrong. There are those type of writing jobs. There was a guy named Martin Quigley that spoke to us who had published a number of novels. I think he had a day job. The guy who taught the writing course at my college had published a number of short stories, one of which got turned into an episode of the old Alfred Hitchcock show. I think he had some background in New York publishing or writing. But mostly it was guys whose gift was not writing, but teaching or researching. I Spider-Man and Dr. Octopus have at it in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #15. Written by Dennis O’Neil. don’t think that had a clear Drawn by Frank Miller & Klaus Janson. [©2003 DC Comics] idea of what the so-called writing life is about or any expectations that any of us would probably decided that I was finished writing fiction then, enter it. John Coyne was a year ahead of me and is a novelist. because I couldn’t relate to what I perceived as the fiction He is by any criteria a professional writer and a good one. Then writing scene as I was experiencing it. there is me, and some people who wandered into jobs like DF: Were you writing fiction up until then? journalism or public relations and advertising where they write. DO: I have a minor in Creative Writing. What that meant at St. But professional fiction writing? No. Nobody even mentioned Louis University in the ‘50s was three years of the same short television or movies. Television is the biggest consumer of story writing class. It was you writing 1,000 words a week and fiction by a huge margin. There is something like 500 hours of then somebody would read something out loud, and it got prime time, not counting all the other stuff. Nobody even critiqued, and we did that for three years. I learned one or two thought of or mentioned those things to us. things about technique there that I still use and teach. DF: Did you know the St. Louis comics guys? Roy Thomas? Basically, that’s what the syllabus was. I’ve been thinking about Gar y Friedrich? it, and it seem to me that what they were teaching us was to DO: No. One of my strengths and weaknesses professionally is be teachers who occasionally wrote. Not people who put bread that I’ve never been a fan of any kind of any thing from on the table by selling prose, but academics who might write baseball teams to comic books. Roy is the reason that I’m occasionally or who might even write a lot, but whose bills were here. I was doing a reporting job in a town called Cape paid by a teaching position at high school or whatever level. Girardeau that is 110 miles south of St. Louis, and one of my DF: Other wise a person might have to move to New York or jobs was to fill the children’s page, which during the summer someplace like that. was not easy to do. There was no school activity to write DO: That was part of it. It would have been very hard to be a about. But I was bouncing back and forth between Cape professional writer if you were sticking around St. Louis unless Girardeau and St. Louis, spending some time in bus depots you worked for one of the newspapers. I got my first profesand drug stores, and noticed comic books. I realized that I sional writing job while I was in college. It was as an editorial hadn’t seen these things for a long time, and they were a hell assistant on a trade magazine that was sent to guys who of a lot better than the comics I remembered. Comics were repaired electrical motors. It was the Electrical Apparatus very important to me when I was a kid, but I lost track of them Services Association News or EASA News. after about age eleven. I now know that was a big implosion. DF: That reminds me—I have to renew my subscription. Where there were 40 companies during WWII and the years DO: That was my first taste of professional writing, and it was immediately afterwards, it dropped down to seven or eight. I done for a guy that I now know was a great guy. I had no read some of these things and decided that comics were in a experience. I didn’t know great from ungreat. It’s like the first resurgence, so I did some very rudimentary journalism by time you fall in love, how the hell do you know? His name was writing letters, not even phoning, the companies. Turned out my Horace Barks and he actually let me write the feature stories, guess was good, because that was when Julie Schwartz and and then I did all the other chores that an editorial assistant Stan Lee’s comics were resurging. I did two articles about the does. resurgence of comic books on the children’s page, and then DF: No relation to the duck Barks? 30 | WRITE NOW

Roy Thomas got in touch with me. By coincidence, or a couple of coincidences that I couldn’t get away with in a piece of fiction, his parents subscribed to the paper because they lived in a town eight miles away in Jackson, Missouri and Roy had been an English teacher at Fox High School. He was also the co-editor of Alter Ego, which was by a far margin the best fanzine around. At that time, I didn’t know there were such a thing as fanzines. He had just accepted a job to come here to New York as a comic book editor. So Roy got in touch with me and, one Sunday afternoon on the way back from visiting St. Louis, my girlfriend and I stopped in at his apartment and I interviewed him for three hours. I was enraptured. I was fascinated. And my girlfriend, later my wife, was bored out of her mind. [laughter] I did an article on Roy. You’ve probably read hundreds of articles like it, “Local Boy Makes Good.” Then Roy moved to New York, and about a month later, I got an envelope from him. He had come to New York and had worked for a couple of weeks for DC and then accepted a job offer from Stan at Marvel. Stan was looking for another assistant, so Roy sent me the Marvel’s writer’s test, which was four pages of The Fantastic Four without copy. My mission, should I choose to accept it, was to add copy. In the spirit of “why the heck not, it’s going to take ten minutes,” and because Tuesday afternoons were slow for me because I had to stay available in case a story broke, I took the test and sent it to Roy, and a week later I happened to be coming back to the office late because I had covered a suicide. I was coming back to drop off notes, and the phone rang, and it was Roy. I could have the job if I wanted it, and it was too goofy not to do it. Move to New York for comic books? I had been to New York when I was in the Navy. How was I not to do it? DF: Was it a cut in salar y or a raise? DO: It was actually a raise. I was making about 80 bucks a week, and the reason he called me in the office was I didn’t have a telephone in my little tiny apartment where I shared a bathroom with a nice old lady next door. That night—it was the rattiest thing I’ve ever done in my life—I wrote a note to my editor saying that I was leaving for New York and I packed my car and started driving east. What a rotten thing to do. The guy got up the next morning and didn’t have a district news reporter. I don’t know if he is still alive, but I’m deeply apologetic if he is. If anybody ever did that to me I’d want to push them out a window. DF: I guess you never used him as a reference. DO: Never did, no. Somewhere around Ohio, the car spewed its transmission all over the highway, and I hitchhiked to New York. I got here and found that it was a Monday morning and Marvel Comics was closed and so was everything else. The only name I knew was Flo Steinberg’s from the comic books. DF: It was a Monday morning? Why were they closed on a Monday morning? DO: Because it was a Jewish holiday. They didn’t have Jews in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, at least none that I ever met. I’m sure there were some, but it was not a big center of temples. So Flo explained to that it was closed for a Jewish holiday and that’s how I know that Rosh Hashanah is the day I came to New York. I know that’s a movable holiday but I celebrate my arrival in New York on Rosh Hashanah. The next day, I did come to work, and I worked for Stan for a while and then I went freelance. I heard this guy Giordano was using comic book writers, so I went to see him. He was in New York one day a

week, working for Charlton, which was based in Connecticut. I worked for Dick for a year, and then one day I went to meet him and he said, “How would you like to do what you are doing now but for three times the money?” What had happened was that he had been hired by DC as an editor, and he brought five people from Charlton with him. DF: You were writing or on staff there? DO: I was totally freelance. I had also written a book on presidential elections. I’d done some magazine work and written for Coronet. DF: How old were you at this point? DO: Twenty-six or so. And by that time I had a wife and a child. We were living on the Lower East Side. I was down in that neighborhood the other Monday night and it’s changed. Wow. It was scary then. One of our friends said there were either a lot of diabetics or a lot of junkies there, because there were a lot of needles on the sidewalks. What you have to do, you do. We survived, and when I came to DC with Dick, the whole comic book business was vastly different. He quit after about a year or a year and a half, but by that point I had met Julie Schwartz who I think was not too trusting of this guy with long hair and torn jeans who wore weird shirts. A hippie, in other words, albeit an old hippie. We got along and I did a job for him that he liked and I started working for Julie. There was no such thing as contracts or regular writers in those days. I would come up to the office every week, and I would leave with an assignment. I still did the occasional job for Marvel and the occasional journalism. I wrote short stories for things like the science-fiction pulps and the mystery magazines. DF: Let me just interrupt here for a second on behalf of readers of Write Now! magazine. You just did a classic thing that ever ybody that I inter view—and probably I do it, too— does. You say, “I did this and I did that,” in terms of entering the business as if it was rolling off a log. I think that’s of interest. How does one go from being a reader of a newspaper or a comic to: “Here’s my check from that magazine or comic”? Can you talk a little about that process? DO: I don’t mean to make it sound easy. These were years of terror. I had a non-working wife with a degree in philosophy who didn’t type, and a small child, and I didn’t know where the next month’s rent was coming from. The rent was fairly low because we were living in a slum. It was where you lived if you had no money. I was lucky that I got married at the Catholic Worker offices, and one of the guys that played guitar at my wedding was also a professional freelance magazine journalist. His name was Jim Berry, and I later wrote a novel with him. Jim introduced me to magazine writers, so I got pointed at journalism, and I learned the ins and outs of writing general interest magazine stories. I met a guy named George Penty at Marvel, who took me under his wing. He took me to a drinking party one night and there was an assistant editor for a magazine who mentioned that the magazine might be interested in a story about a given political figure. So I got that job that way. DF: Writing about a political figure? DO: I went down to Washington and interviewed the guy. It was Jim Symington. The only connection was that I had been a journalist in Missouri and his father was a senator from Missouri. Or you looked in the back of the Writer’s Digest for the market news, and I had done a science-fiction story that did not sell to the market for which I intended it, and I looked in the back of Writer’s Digest and it said Ellery Queen O’NEIL | 31

always had to be alert. It was that kind of thing that takes its toll and tightens you on the inside. You don’t relax anymore. And then there was my editorial work, which is high stress. My advice to people is if you’re single, by all means come to New York, and live on pizza and have roommates and have the adventure of living in New York in poverty. It’s a great education. But don’t try it if you have a child. DF: That sounds like good advice. You were freelancing at Mar vel and DC and then eventually you ended up with a staff job at DC? DO: I had a staff job in the early ’70s for about a year. I also had a drinking problem and one thing led to the termination of the other, and then I really had a few bad years. I always managed to have my head together enough to put together about four hours a day where I could write. I have no desire to read anything that came out of those years. One good comic book story and maybe one short story that’s not too bad came out of those years. I could always get my act together that much, but there was a point where a close friend said, “All those years you were distinguishable from a Bowery bum by address only.” I’m afraid that it was not an inaccurate statement. I managed to survive and even managed child support. DF: You were divorced? DO: We got divorced amicably. Anne is a wonderful woman and she put up with me for longer than she Denny’s memorable run as the Man of Steel’s writer—the “Kryptonite No More” era— should have, but we split. began with Superman #233 (Jan. 1971). Art by Cury Swan and Murphy Anderson. DF: You’ve consistently been employed, published, [©2003 DC Comics] and prosperous, in comics and other forms of writing and editing through a 30-plus year period, which is Magazine is now considering science-fiction/fantasy with a remarkable enough. But you are not reticent about talking detective slant. I may be getting my stories mixed up, but about your alcohol problem. It’s cer tainly something that what’s pertinent here is that I saw that EQ was accepting that you’re frank about. It’s just amazing that you came through kind of material, so I sent them the story. I will always that and out the other side of it. remember that it was a Saturday morning and I was sleeping DO: I was one of the lucky ones. It could have gone either way. late. Anne came in and said there was a man name Frederick I know there were people that didn’t expect me to make it to Danay on the phone for me. [laughter] “Come on, Anne, do you age 40. I found that out many years later. Some people get the think this is funny?” It was Frederick from (Ellery Queen) and message and some people don’t. I was about 38 and in detox. he wanted a minor change which I didn’t want to make. So we A doctor, by being very nasty and tough with me, made me hit a compromise. I met Ted White at parties and Ted was understand that I was going to die. Some people give me credit editing Amazing and Fantastic, which led to my writing some for cleaning up my act, but I don’t deserve any credit because reviews. I think I published one story that Mike Kaluta did the if you’re drowning you grab for the life preserver. I realized that art for in one of those magazines. I heard about SFWA, the I had damaged my body and that I couldn’t hope to survive, Science Fiction Writers of America, and I joined. They were very much less have any quality of life, unless I cleaned up my life. lean years and I had 50 cents a day that I allowed myself for It took a while and wasn’t one of those overnight things. But my own use. That meant that I could buy a quart of beer or go there did come a point where I realized that, every time I to a movie if I went to one of the theatres on the Lower East opened a bottle, I was shortening my life or damaging myself in Side. It was a great control on my bad habits because I a way that could greatly reduce the quality of my life. My son’s couldn’t afford to be degenerate. first babysitter was a brilliant comic book artist who couldn’t DF: Was there a “plan B” if the writing in New York didn’t make that decision and killed himself in his early-to-mid-’50s. work out? He was a smart guy and killed himself with a gun. I’ve never DO: Absolutely none. We were working without a net. I didn’t figured out why some people are able to make that decision feel like I could call on any family or anybody else. As I look and some people aren’t. I’ve never heard it explained. back, we were in culture shock. I went from Cape Girardeau, Sometimes it’s a decision that you make for yourself and not Missouri to the Lower East Side of New York. First of all, for your wife or your kids or anything like that. You have to there’s a huge change of geography, and then, from a place decide for yourself “I’m not going to do it anymore,” and you where you left your doors open—and I mean you left your doors have to believe it. wide open with the money on the table and it was safe—to the DF: How many years were you active as an alcoholic? Lower East Side where you might get to the corner, but you 32 | WRITE NOW

DO: I was one of those guys that had a predilection for alcohol from very early. My first drink happened when I was 21, but, boy, did I like it. I was really a straightarrow Catholic kid and I bought a bottle of wine to share with my girlfriend on my 21st birthday, and that day ended up a mess. Now I’m married to that young woman, so the story has a happy ending. Then I went into the Navy and that was a control on my drinking because you’re out to sea for six weeks at a time and there’s no alcohol there. I enlisted but I would have been drafted. It was a time when my politics were a bit different and I believed that it was something that I should do. They’re not radically different, because I still believe that it is probably useful for people to go do something for their country. I just don’t any longer include any one on my list of things that ought to be done, or believe in picking up any kind of weapon bigger than a pocketknife. DF: Was the Navy a formative ex perience for your writing? Would you definitely have been a writer either way? Was it an influence? DO: It probably helped. I saw and did things that I don’t have any expectation that I would have done otherwise. I experienced a hurricane at sea, for example. I’ve never written about that, but it was a magnificent experience. I did a few other things that I won’t talk about that were more in the line of what you expect sailors to do. Somebody asked me about a month ago that if I was a sailor, why don’t I have any tattoos? It’s because I was never drunk and proximate to a tattoo parlor at the same time. I was often separately those things, but it never happened on the same night. DF: Did you actually see combat? DO: We participated in the Cuban blockade in ‘63. That’s my little piece of history, five very scary days, though the entire thing was thirteen days. Actually it was probably longer than five days and I have a medal somewhere. It’s an interesting comment on getting medals, because I was in atomic, biological, chemical warfare school in Quonset Point, Long Island, and a Marine came in and said: “Everybody report to your ship immediately and don’t bother to pack your bags.” We all did that, and 36 hours later, we were between Cuba and the Russian fleet. We really didn’t know what was going on. We knew our pilots were flying around the clock. O’NEIL continues on page 36

COMICS 101 Dennis O’Neil’s Notes for Comics Writing and Editing Class Classes 1 & 2 As Denny mentions in the interview, he’s been teaching the crafts of writing and editing comics for many years. Currently, he’s teaching new staffers at DC Comics the tricks of the trade. These are Denny’s notes for the first two classes, written as cues to himself. I’ve lightly edited them for publication so that the principles are easily comprehensible to others. —DF

Class 1: Intro • You know who I am. (Old fart) In business 37 yrs. Have been called “master,” etc. To loosely paraphrase Al Chang Huang, author of Tao The Watercourse Way: a master is anybody who started before you did. • Began as Stan’s asst. • Business different today. Comics not supposed to be good. “Comic books are a form of storytelling that’s dumb.” Spend some weeks remembering (Plato.) Always good to review basics, esp. if you’re experienced. • Sammy Sosa takes batting practice. Note: We will discuss problems and solutions. We will not posit rules. McKee: Principles, not rules. • Harvey Pekar breaks every “rule” I know and succeeds in doing what he wants to do. Our mantra: There is seldom any one absolutely, inarguable, unimpeachably right way to do anything. • But useful to learn as much as you can. • Some want to depend on muse. • Muse unreliable and if professional, must deliver whether or not she’s present. (Not send postcard.) I’VE MADE MORE MISTAKES THAN ANYONE. YOU CAN LEARN FROM MY ERRORS AND YOUR OWN. Comics is a stor ytelling form. Begin with what is a story? COMICS 101 continues on page 34 O’NEIL | 33

COMICS 101 continued from page 33

Beginning Story Structure

Don’t waste words or images. If you do, you’ll bore audience. • Live in terror of boring audience.

What Is A Story? What it isn’t: • Facts about someone’s life. • Random slice of reality. What it is. • A Structured Narrative Designed To: • Achieve An Emotional Effect; • Demonstrate A Proposition; or, • Reveal Character. Best stories do two of the three (emotion and character.) Can do all three. Best stories—everything counts. • POE: Ever y word must be aimed toward a final effect. (Horror) • CHEKHOV: If there’s a gun above the mantel in the first act, you must fire it before the final cur tain.

Specialties of comics storytelling. • Differ from other forms in how stor y is told. • Comics unique “language.” • Word and image must work together as parts of speech work together in normal English sentence. • We must become fluent in this language. • Must be static. (Beginner’s error: asking for movement w/in panel) Unusual constraints: • Copy-image ratio. • Number of panels per page. • Amount of information w/in panel. Major storytelling problems in today’s comics. • No clear idea of where story is going and where it will end. (Archie: Bad habits in the ’80s.) Hence, wasted space. • Must never just “visit” characters. Each scene must move story toward climax. • Characters and situations not established. • To assume everyone knows that stuff: • Chases off potential new readers. Every comic is someone’s first. • SO—CLARITY SHOULD BE PRIORITY. • In writing: establish names and conflicts asap. • In art: what is happening within panel. • Where? Est. shot to change locale. • What order to read panels in. • IF READER IS PUZZLED FOR ONE SECOND, YOU’VE LOST HIM. Keep story spine in mind. • Definition of story spine: • Goldman: What the story is about. • Me: The sequence of events leading to the inevitable conclusion. • Novelists can discover what the story is about as they write because they have luxury of rewrite. Comics writers don’t.

Class 2: TOPIC: WAYS OF LOOKING AT STORIES • Hama: Anyone who can tell a joke can tell a story. • Jim Shooter’s example of most basic story structure: • Little Miss Muffet: • Story: Set up: Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet eating her curds and whey… • Conflict: Along came a spider, who sat down beside her… • Resolution: …and frightened Miss Muffet away • Hint of characterization From the classic “There Is No Hope In Crime Alley!” Story by Denny O’Neill; art by Dick Giordano. From Detective Comics #442. [©2003 DC Comics] 34 | WRITE NOW

Not a story: • Jack Be Nimble... Classic fan’s idea of story premise: Superman and the Hulk fight. • Not a story. It’s an incident. • But to make “Jack Be Nimble” a story: • Jill won’t marry Jack unless he jumps. • Jack injured himself last time. • Last task to win the million...(?) Another way to think about story: • As a magic Act. • Get their attention, keep it, end with your best effect. REPRISE STORY DEF. FROM LAST WEEK: • A story is a structured narrative designed to achieve an emotional effect, demonstrate a proposition or reveal character. Now add: • A story must have conflict and there must be something at stake. • Action should rise and culminate in most powerful moment. • This is achieved by stor y structure. STORY STRUCTURE • [Begin with structure for single story. Will cover longer forms later in semester.] • Why structure needed? • Present events coherently so audience can understand them. • People understand and respond to cause-and-effect. • People need order to keep track of events. How to structure: • Arrange events of story for maximum impact/audience interest. • Example: Whodunit. If audience knows killer, surprise on which story depends is lost. • Jessica (Murder She Wrote). • Sherlock Holmes. • Second example: Whodunit: Audience knows who killer is. Must follow hero as he outsmarts villain. • Columbo. Good structure demands unity. Why? • Keep audience focused on essentials. • Maximize impact. • Poe: Every word must be aimed at final effect. • Chekhov: If there’s a gun over the fireplace in the first act, fire it before the end. Don’t waste words or images. You’ll bore audience. (But don’t over-economize either.) Do it right. This will come from experience.

• Goldman: What the story is about. • Me: The sequence of events leading to the inevitable conclusion. • Good examples. • Sam Spade finds Archer’s killer. • Butch & Sundance killed in Argentina. • Indy finding and losing the Grail. • Luke destroying the Death Star. • Terminator destroyed allowing kid to live. • Hamlet destroyed in attaining revenge. • Kal-El comes to Earth. PRACTICAL DIGRESSION: Why memorize these things? • Won’t always be inspired, but if professional, must produce. • Way to check maximum effectiveness of story—minimize toolate second guesses. Profluence. • Dictionary definition: “...flowing smoothly and abundantly...” • Gardner: “The conventional kind of profluence... is a causally related sequence of events.” • “Page-turner” quality of Stephen King, etc. Structure can help you attain profluence. Basic structure for a 22-page comics story. • Hook • Inciting incident. • Establish situation and conflict. (Major visual action.) • Develop and complicate situation. (Major visual action.) • Events leading to — • Climax. (Major visual action.) • Denouement. • Why “major visual action?” • Visual action is the language of the medium. • Don’t thwart audience expectations. They buy comics for this sort of thing. If you find it repugnant, write something else. • Hook. • Something to interest reader, get him into the story. • Not what submission guides mean by “hook.” • In that case, it’s one line summary of what’s good/unusual about a story. • Staccato pace of modern life—many distractions—means we can’t afford leisurely Thomas Hardy approach. • Hook can incorporate inciting incident but doesn’t have to. • Inciting incident. • What sets the train of events in motion. • Maltese Falcon - Archer’s murder. • Terminator - android’s return to our era. • Any Columbo or Jessica - a murder. • Cape Fear - DeNiro showing up or botched defense. • “Doonsbury” - Mike losing job. Note: Inciting Incident need not happen onstage.

Pacing = the last thing a storyteller learns. Story spine.

MORE NOTES FROM THE MASTER NEXT ISSUE!

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later found out was that Dick was invited to bring us along because the old mainstay writers and freelancers had asked for some help with insurance. My understanding was they didn’t make demands, they asked, and the company’s reply was to show them the door. In the arrogance and naïveté of youth, I thought that they had seen our work and what terrific writers we were. [laughter] They had no idea who we were, just that we were people who knew what a script looked like. I’m glad I didn’t know that at the time, because I was poor and the money was triple what I was getting at Charlton, but I was a scab and didn’t know it until 20 years later. DF: You never said to yourself, “What happened to those guys? I used to enjoy their stories, how come they’re not writing anymore?” DO: I remember meeting Arnold Drake, and I remember a couple of evenings with Bill Finger, and they never mentioned it. They were gracious enough not to do that. You know how the freelance thing works. You are not likely to meet your fellow freelancers coming up to the office. It just never occurred to me, and then once you’re in the rhythm “The Kingdom of the Cobra” from The Shadow #3 (Mar. 1974). Written by O’Neil with of coming in once a week, things take on a art by Michael Kaluta & Berni Wrightson. [©2003 The Condé Naste Publications, Inc.] momentum of their own. I would have had a real conflict. I don’t believe that scabs should be O’NEIL continued from page 33 allowed to do their thing, but I really did need the money. I don’t know which way I would have come down. There were constant planes taking off and landing. I was a DF: Turnover in comics usually happens by attrition. If you journalist, which meant I had to put out a daily newspaper. It look at the credits in comics now compared to the credits 20 was a ship with 2500 people, and it had a little daily years ago, your name is one of the few that have consistently newspaper which another guy and myself put out. I was on been in them. Are you able to objectively figure out how you combat alert for most of that time, which meant that there was are able to keep that going when so many names are no this one compartment about three decks below the water line, longer there, and guys whose names are there now have only and if it sprung a leak, I think I was supposed to do something been doing it a couple years? about it. I’m not sure what, but that was my military combat DO: It was always a job for me. It’s what I needed to do to job. I learned later that we had been a part of history. And fulfill my obligations. Dick Giordano and I have discussed that many, many, many years later, the guy that had been my we are both good on deadlines because there’s a part of each immediate superior on that ship came to visit us in Brooklyn of us, even though we’ve been in the business such a long and brought the medal that I was entitled to for having particitime, that feels that if I blow it, they will never give me another pated in that. I put it in a box in storage somewhere. I vaguely job. There’s a part of me, deep down, that really does believe knew that if I wanted to pick it up I could, but it’s not like there that. That I had better not screw up too much. And I think was a ceremony where’d they pin it to your chest. I thought that that’s one of the big differences in the generations. The firstI didn’t do anything but sit there and wonder what I was there generation guys were refugees from pulps and other media, for. It wasn’t a heroic action. That’s as much of the war story although not the two best writers of that era, Bill Finger and as I care to tell. Jerry Siegel. I’ve looked at their scripts and thought that they DF: You came into comics at a time when ver y few new had a remarkable grasp of comic books, especially since it was people were getting into the business. a brand new medium, and that they were among the first half DO: It was Roy and Steve Skeates and myself. I think of us as dozen writers to do them. But a lot of those guys were coming the second generation of comic book guys, but I’m not able to from elsewhere, and comics were disreputable. Roy and I came mention any artists off the top of my head. in having grown up with comics and really liking and respecting DF: Kaluta and Simonson? the medium. I can’t speak for Roy, but for me it was a job. It DO: Shortly thereafter, but not immediately. Maybe five years was an interesting job. It was a pretty cool job sometimes, but after me. my approach to it wasn’t a lot different than to journalism. It DF: Was it connected at all with the writers at DC tr ying to was something that I had to do. Here was a set of givens and get benefits then and getting canned, if that’s something you here’s a time frame. You have to realize the project within feel comfor table discussing? One of the darker sides of these parameters. I was never a fan and didn’t know that fans comics histor y. existed until I went to my first convention about six months DO: For Superman’s 50th anniversary I wrote a piece in the after I had been a pro. Flo Steinberg took me to it, and it was volume commemorating my entering the field, and Paul Levitz down at the Y on 23rd street. It was a small convention. The told me to feel free to tell the truth about that because it will guests were Otto Binder and Buster Crabbe. tell people how far we have come in the right direction. What I 36 | WRITE NOW

DF: And I thought Danny Fingeroth was a funny name. [laughter] DO: If comics is your hobby growing up, I think you carry that mindset professionally. A hobby is something that you do when it’s fun. A profession is something that you do most days. I’m not going to make the statement that you do it ever y day, regardless. There are days where it’s not going to happen. But there better not be too many of those, or you’re going to have to consider other career options. DF: The journalism training must have been ver y helpful in terms of just getting it done and hitting the deadline. DO: You learn to respect deadlines, because the man downstairs was going to push that big red button at 10 o’clock and that press was going to start. DF: I thought, when you said someone would “push the big red button,” you meant a trapdoor you’d fall into as punishment for missing the deadline. [laughter] DO: You knew that that was inflexible. There were unions and everything else involved, so your story was going to be there or not be there, and in either case, that was when the paper was getting printed, because it had to be on the train by 11:15. You might get away with missing it once. There’s a blank spot in the paper, a white spot, and you are not going to get away with it twice and keep your job. You did learn to respect the realities. It was never a hobby and it was never anything that I did for fun. Having said that, there have been times where it has been a source of immense satisfaction. Basically, writing’s a job and it’s my profession. DF: I’ve known you for over 20 years—which is amazing considering that you’re 35 and I’m 25—and you’ve always had a day job and a ver y full writing plate. Obviously, that works for you. Is that a conscious choice? Is it a financial or psychological need? DO: Actually there were ten years when I was completely freelance. I accepted the editorial job at Marvel in the ‘80s. I was an editor at DC in ‘73 or ‘74, and I screwed up in every way an editor could. DF: Did you let all your friends pre-voucher? DO: I was never that degenerate. [laughter] Basically, I thought they hired me because they liked my writing, so I’ll make everything look like it was written by me, which is exactly what you should not do. The trick is to get first-rate Danny Fingeroth out of Danny Fingeroth, not third-rate O’Neil. That’s the way you approach editing as the invisible part of the process, whose job it is to make the visible part great. That was an aborted and dreadful editing experience. When I took the job with Jim Shooter at Marvel, it was to protect the writing. I realized that I had to do an awful lot of it and I was questioning my ability to maintain any type of quality. I thought, “Let me try and make a large part my living by this stuff that I know—editing—rather than that intangible stuff that produces stories.” I’d just finished writing a history of comics for Scholastic Press, and Jim was one of the people that I interviewed. He offered me a job and I stewed about it for about three weeks and at the end of the day I couldn’t see any reason not to accept it. So I went and resumed my editorial career at Marvel. You may remember that at that time it was almost house policy for the editors to write as much as they could. DF: Especially in the pre-royalty days, that was really the only way to make a viable living. DO: Or least the only way to make a good solid middle-class living in New York. There were not many problems for me

finding regular writing work at Marvel. There was probably a month or two in there were I didn’t do anything, but basically I kept busy with, if not a regular book, then with lots of other assignments. Some months I did two or three things, and writing was easier then than it is now, and that was one of my secrets. It was a profession but it was also a refuge. DF: In what sense a refuge? DO: I’ve talked with other writers, and some of us have the same take. If your own personal life was a shambles, then work was a place to escape to. A lot of that time, it wasn’t really that hard for me to go home and write, because it was the best thing I could do with my evening. DF: So in some way it was therapeutic? DO: Absolutely. And I’m not the only person who would make this claim. Of course if you do have a relationship that is on the rocks and you choose to deal with that by escaping into your office every night, you’re guaranteed that that relationship is going to founder. DF: But you’ll be able to afford the alimony. [laughter] I didn’t realize that you hadn’t been a staff editor for DC when you came to Mar vel. Was that in the middle of the alcohol phase? DO: No, it was past that. I was functioning well but just realizing that to make a living I was going to have to write a lot. DF: There were no royalties then, and the page rates sucked. They were getting better but they weren’t that thrilling. DO: They were not into three figures yet, so you were prolific or you starved or you had a working wife or generous mother or something like that. DF: You became one of the early hip-and-happening, “rock star”

comic book writers, if I may be so bold—or so brave—to say. DO: Shall I put on my dark glasses for you? DF: Today, there seems to be a new flavor-of-the-month hot writer ever y week. But you were one of the first writers that people knew by name that wasn’t Stan Lee. You did Green Lantern and Batman with Neal Adams. Was that a good thing, to be a star like that? DO: First of all, the current guys that you are talking about do a lot of self-promotion and they do behave like rock stars. We never did that. I’m a shanty Irish kid from north St. Louis whose father was a butcher. DF: There are a lot of butchers’ sons in the industr y. DO: You’re taught that decent people don’t call attention to themselves. There might come a point where you don’t really believe that, but nonetheless, as one of the nuns once said, “If we get you when you’re seven, we’ve got you.” DF: I thought that’s what Mor t Weisinger said. [laughter] DO: Even now, I can’t do a lot of self-promotion. It’s nice when people pay attention to you, as long as you realize that it doesn’t mean anything. Neal and I were among the first comic book stars, and of course, that was when there was no financial benefit attached to being a comic book star. It was flattering to go on the radio or visit the universities, but there was no benefit at all. I was working for 15 bucks a page. DF: Did women think anything of it? 38 | WRITE NOW

DO: No. We led the way and the people that came afterwards reaped the benefits. I now realize that, particularly after GL/GA, we were stars, but it did not add one nickel to the amount of money we made. DF: What about in terms of your self-image and the way people thought of you? DO: I think it precipitated the bad alcoholism in me. I was not prepared psychologically for that amount of attention. In many alcoholics’ autobiographies, there is one problem, self-esteem, and it sets horrible conflicts with you, because people are flattering you but you know you’re really no good. I just was not able to handle it. I was a heavy drinker before that, but the bad times happened right after that, and I don’t think that could be a coincidence. DF: How did you handle the “bad times”? DO: I got my act together when I was 38 or 39. My kid was still small, and I had a relationship with a woman that I’m still in touch with, who was very generous and supportive. But I had about six years of being about as bad an alcoholic as you can be and still stay out of jail or hospitals. I went in for detox six times. It seemed like every six months, I’d find myself in a hospital. DF: Like the Betty Ford Clinic? DO: Nothing that fancy. There was Bellevue, which I talked myself out of in a day. I spent one night in that place and I went to the administration and explained to them that I was really able to take care of myself. I think that’s the most eloquent I’ve ever been. Then there was a “country club” place that I went to that made it real easy. Mostly they were dreary places with decent enough guys running them, but in some of them, you knew were going to die. One guy was getting discharged and borrowed a quarter from each of us and somebody asked him what he planned to do and he said, “See the liquor store down there? That’s where I’m going.” You knew that guy was not going to make it. I once ran an AA meeting on the Bowery, and those guys all had worse stories than I did. I never got to where I was sleeping in flophouses. As I said, I was always able to write enough to make a living and to meet my various financial obligations. DF: Do you still go to AA meetings? DO: No, I’m not a joiner and I’m not a meeting person. I’ve since discovered that I have ADD [Attention Deficit Disorder — ed.], which makes it really hard for me to stay still. Let me say as loudly as I can that I don’t know of a better way than AA, and that without AA I wouldn’t have made it. I really did the whole program for 90 meetings and 90 days and three meetings a week. I stuck with it for long time. I had a rough month last month and found myself pulling out an AA book to see what was available near my home. What was really weird was the one day I was really tempted to have a drink, there were no AA meetings around. [laughter] You’ve got to be sober on Tuesdays. I don’t think there is a better way to cope with the disease of alcoholism than AA. Everybody with the disease has got to do it. Psychotherapy doesn’t seem to be able to lay a glove on it. DF: Are you involved in Eastern spirituality? Is that where your bent is now? DO: Yeah, I belong to a Zen group, and about four years ago, Marifran and I went to a retreat given by Thich Nhat Hanh, the great Vietnamese Zen monk. And coming from the type of background that I had, Irish Catholic, everything has to be done by the numbers and I didn’t feel that I was a real Buddhist,

out about everything. That need to know gets stronger as I get because I didn’t have a piece of paper saying that I was. We older. I don’t read as much fiction as I did. I don’t understand a went to this retreat which was in upstate New York with 800 lot about the world, and that bothers me. I’m trying to make people. Thich Nhat Hanh is a saint, if any walk the planet, and sense of it all the time, trying to make sense of my own life if you went to the last day and went early you could receive the and the world at large. Professionally, it’s a useful tool, Five Teachings of Mindfulness, which came with a little piece of because you can get ideas from anywhere. One of the most paper. So we got up real early and went there and I now have a successful short stories I ever did which was published by piece of paper. Zen is based on three elements: Buddha, the Ellery Queen, and later anthologized, came from reading a book Sangha and the Dharma. The Dharma is the teaching. The on medical curiosities that somebody gave me. I had nothing Sangha is the group support. Just recently, a guy in the town better to do that night, so I read it. You’re not as likely to get a where I now live put an ad in the paper for anyone interested in great idea for a comic book story from an old comic book as Zen. Marifran and I went to the meeting, and there is a very you are from something else. Or from going to a museum and small group of people that meet in a wonderful old 19th looking at a portrait of a 16th century nobleman and thinking, century church once a week. We’ve had two Zen masters “What a weird face! What could that guy be up to?” If you only come, and sometimes it’s just the construction worker guy. know comics, what are you bringing to the party? You’re going There is one woman who spent time with Thich Nhat Hanh in to recycle stuff. You can get away with that for a time, but to France and sometimes reads something of his. Arthur Clarke make a contribution, I think you have to have other interests. said that, when mankind finally becomes rational, Buddhism One of my criteria for hiring people is, “What else are you interwill be the religion that’s left. It’s a big statement, but it’s not ested in?” I almost always have good luck if they are interested far from what I feel. Buddhism, and Zen in particular, make in anything else. If the guy was a black belt in karate, that was sense to me. something. If he was into Jewish a cappella music… One of DF: How long has it been a par t of your life? the best assistants I ever had, that was his passion. Scott DO: I’ve been reading stuff like that for at least 20 years. I Peterson loved Shakespeare and music, any kind of music. He took a stab at meditating when my son Larry was a little kid. listens to symphonies and heavy metal. Those guys were not It’s been an essential part of my life for six years, and this last just comics fans. They had a lively, ongoing, and year, I’ve had the opportunity to go once a week to listen to deep appreciation of comics as an art form and a some teaching, and to sit and meditate. Through that, I’ve medium, but they also had lives. They could bring found that there is a lot more Zen around here than you would other interests to comics. think. There’s a guy named Father Robert Kennedy who is a Jesuit priest and a Zen master. DF: Do you consider yourself a Catholic-Buddhist? The Dennis O’Neil Interview Continues Next Issue! DO: The Catholicism is very deep and the Zen is an add-on to that. This guy, Father Robert Kennedy, came to speak to us and I bought his book. For him, Zen is part of his duties a Jesuit priest. You are what you are. I am a Buddhist by practice and by intellectual conviction. One of the things that deeply appeals to me about Buddhism, and you’ve probably heard, is that you’re not supposed to take anyone’s word on anything. Don’t take it on faith. If it isn’t working for you, then it’s not for you. DF: I’m going to tr y a ver y convoluted segue here, because I don’t have your journalism background. I’m just a comics guy. One thing that comes through in this inter view, and since I’ve known you, is an insatiable curiosity about ever ything. And you spend a lot of your time as an editor teaching and also in schools as a teacher. How does that fit into your career and what do you think people might be able to learn from that to help or inspire them? DO: The best advice I can give to Oliver Queen & Vic Sage. Two of O’Neil’s better known characters meet in The Question #18. any wannabe writer is to read. Find

END

PART

ONE

Here are the first two pages of Denny’s script for Azrael: Agent of the Bat #75. Notice how economical Denny’s panel descriptions are. He gives the artist the information needed to tells the story. Another artist might have required more detail, but Sergio Cariello’s instincts are so good that Denny is able to trust him to give each page and panel the most possible drama. Inks by James Pascoe. [©2003 DC Comics.] 40 | WRITE NOW

O’NEIL | 41

“But What Does Danny Think?”

Idiots And Outlaws By Danny Fingeroth, editor

ow many times has this happened to you?

You’re watching a movie or TV show, and they want to show that some character—say the Burt Young character in the Rocky movies—is an idiot. What do they have him doing? Reading a comic, of course. Try this over, say, a two-week period: Make a list of how many disparaging things you read or hear about comics in the media. Does a critic think a movie insipid or juvenile? Why then, it’s got “comic book scripting.” Does a character have no real friends or social life? Why, often as not, he’ll be talking about his comic book collection. (To quote the Comic Book Guy in the Simpsons: “Cheeseburgers and loneliness—a lethal combination.”) Is a piece of art ugly? Then it looks like it was clipped from a comic. Really, make a list. It’s truly amazing. Shorthand for anything stupid, shallow, simplistic? A comics reference. Doesn’t matter how many books like Maus, Stuck Rubber Baby or Jimmy Corrigan there are out there. They may as well not exist. If you read comics, you’re a lonely, emotionally-screwy freak. Now, let’s assume this isn’t true. (For the sake of this column, anyway.) (Look—even I’m doing it!) We know that people from all walks of life, from all levels of intelligence and education, read comics. Just as there are a wide range of people who enjoy various kinds of books, movies and TV shows, there is also a wide range of comics readers and comics material. Comics of all kinds are read by all kinds of people. No one who doesn’t read them really cares about that. They know what they need to know: Comics reader = idiot. That used to make me angry. Then it amused me. Now, I kind of like the idea. Why? Because it maintains for comics an essential element that could lead to their survival and renewal: The idea that they’re bad for you, that your parents don’t approve of them, that they are a part of a subversive and outlaw culture! Whether you’re a liberal or a conservative, you know that comics are bad. They sabotage education. They promote juvenile delinquency (how quaint that term seems today). They divert you from studying. They keep you from having a serious relationship. They make you an idiot. If we could only have a few deadly diseases blamed on comics, sales would go through the roof! When will we see a public service ad that goes: “This is your brain. This is your brain on comics”? This is not to minimize the agony that people like Mike Diana endure. (Please contribute to the CBDLF.) There’s a fine line between being seen as part of an outlaw culture and being branded an actual outlaw, whether through your own doing or the selective obsessions of self-appointed cultural wardens.

42 | WRITE NOW

When Bill Gaines’ EC Comics crossed the line in the 1950s from being bad-for-you-but-tolerable-by-your-parents to being seen as REALLY bad for you, the industry crashed in a way that took years to recover from. Some say it still hasn’t. That’s one of the problems with so many comics readers being adults now. There’s no parent tsk-tsking the fact you’re reading comics. You don’t have the illicit thrill of reading them under the covers with a flashlight. You’re a grown adult with a job and maybe even a spouse. Maybe he or she reads comics too. Which might be why your kid won’t be caught dead reading one. Of course, if we could promulgate the idea that reading them could actually kill you… then not only would comics sell like crazy, but so would the special glasses and gloves you’d have to wear to safely read them! And the Comic Book Writer would be the most feared and revered figure in our culture. Some rock music still manages to pull this trick off. Eminem is so bad for you he’s hailed as an important artist. Even my octogenarian mother recently asked me: “What is this Eminem?” I told her it really wouldn’t affect her life one way or the other to remain ignorant about Marshall Mathers and his music. Aside from Spider-Man—whose comics I edited!—my mother has never asked me about any comics characters or creators. Eminem has, in the tried and true rock tradition, become a pariah and a household word at the same time, like Elvis and Jim Morrison before him. Like bad boy movie stars James Dean and Robert Mitchum. Some of the current U.K.based writers try to cultivate a similar rebel image, but for the most part, it’s still only people within the comics world that seem to know them and their reps. How, then, do we get comics back to that exalted state of pariah-dom? I’d love to hear ideas that don’t involve actually harming humans or animals. Send them to DFWN! and I’ll share the best in a future issue. So, maybe comics being thought of as the literature of idiots isn’t the most flattering thing for the medium’s creators and readers to contemplate. But, hey, it’s a start. With a little luck—and effort—maybe people will one day soon be pulling their children to the other side of the street when they see that most sinister of figures approaching: The Comic Book Writer. But what do you think? Can comics get away from the “idiot” image? Should they? Send your comments to me at WriteNowDF@aol.com or snail mail them to Danny Fingeroth, Write Now! Magazine c/o TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605.

THE END

Astro City’s Marvel Peter Sanderson’s

Kurt Busiek’s Danny Fingeroth’s Write Now! Interview

Interview by Peter Sanderson Edited by Danny Fingeroth / Copy-edited by Kurt Busiek

urt Busiek has been in and around the comics industry for over two decades. I guess I have to stop thinking of him as “the new guy.” He’s been the struggling newcomer, the hotshot superstar and the accomplished professional. And he was one of the first guys to put his name above the title of a periodical—Kurt Busiek’s Astro City—and so was no small inspiration for the name of this very magazine. With the Alex Ross-painted Marvels being perhaps the highest profile triumph of his career, Kurt is now the reigning king of painless continuity. He is able to write popular characters with deep histories and not make you feel intimidated by that history. Just take a look at his run on Thunderbolts, which he created for Marvel. With Kurt Busiek’s Astro City, he created his own universe of characters to play with, and has given them their their own histories that he doles out in the most dramatic way possible. With Shockrockets, Superstar and Power Company, Kurt’s given life to some of the most innovative concepts in recent comics history. Despite recent problematic health, Kurt still produces a quantity of quality work that would stagger nearly anybody. He recently took some time to talk to the world’s foremost comics scholar, Peter Sanderson, about how he writes comics, the state of comics writing today as compared to previous eras, and about the continuing evolution of his own career. Prepare for wonders beyond imagining… or at least for an informative gabfest between two comics professionals who really love comics and talking about them. —DF PETER SANDERSON: One of the writers you admire, William Goldman, has written about how the composer John Kander says he is continually hearing snatches of music in his head. Most of this music leads nowhere, but he is able to turn some of it into his compositions. Similarly, Goldman writes that he himself continually has stor y ideas popping into his head; most are dead ends, but some evolve into actual stories. Is this a fair description of how the creative mind works, or, more specifically, how your mind works? KURT BUSIEK: Yes. Some story ideas I arrive at by analysis, by figuring out that, say, I need something about this, I need something about that, and I actually look for an idea and mess around with it until something takes shape. But in many cases, I can be out at the movies or at a bookstore, or meeting a friend for lunch, and some unexpected thing triggers an idea. You never really know what stimulus is going to suggest an idea. You mess around with that idea, and sometimes it turns into a story, sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it’s promising

From the signature page of the Marvels limited edition hardcover. Kurt Busiek (extreme right) and Alex Ross (second from right), among others, get their copy of Marvels signed by their creation, Phil Sheldon. Art by Alex Ross.

enough so that you jot it down somewhere, and use it later. But sometimes—a lot of times—they just don’t come to life. I don’t think it’s as simple as that some people keep coming up with story ideas, some people don’t. I think it’s a matter of experience. When I was in high school I don’t think I came up with as many story ideas as I do now. It’s just that now I’ve been writing professionally for twenty years, so my mind works that way: it’s been trained to do that. PS: Can you give me an example of an idea like this that evolved into a stor y that we might know? KB: This is kind of an odd example—but Astro City #2—Astro City Vol. 1 #2, that is—is all built around a young reporter who is tracking down information for an article with this big cosmic super-hero war going on. And all he has to show for it in the end, when his editor tells him to cut this down to what can be verified, is a four paragraph article about a trolley delayed by a shark. The origin of that story is that while I was in college, my mother mailed me a clipping from The Boston Globe with this little article called “Trolley Delayed by Shark.” She thought it was just such a bizarre and oddball little piece that she wanted to share it. And I read it, and thought, “You know, probably what happened was, some fraternity guys tried to tie a shark from a rope that was hanging in the path of a trolley to it scare the people inside, and it just fell off or something.” It was just so perfect, though. The idea of a super-hero story, where there’d be some big cosmic war, and this would be the only evidence that was left. So I carried that clipping around in my wallet for—what, fifteen years?—before I finally had the place to write that story. And, in fact, the article at the end of that story is the article BUSIEK | 43

prospect of writing 17 pages of comic books and finding out I sucked at it was not anywhere near as overwhelming as the prospect of writing 253 pages of a novel to find out that I’d just wasted all that time. So that’s when I started working more seriously on comic book ideas. I talked my friend Scott McCloud into collaborating—I’d write a story and he’d draw it. We planned to do a 15-page story that ultimately became 60 pages long before we stopped doing it. But over the course of doing that story, both of us discovered that we liked making comics, we liked figuring out how to tell a story visually on the page. And over the course of those sixty pages, which took three years to do, we figured out what we were doing, so that we actually From Astro City Vol. 1 #2. Art by Brent Anderson. Script by Kurt Busiek. [©2003 Juke Box Productions.] had some reasonable command of our craft, even if we weren’t terribly mature at what we were trying to do from The Boston Globe, with a few words changed here and with it yet. there to make it happen [laughter] in Astro City rather than So that’s sort of a longwinded response that boils down to: Boston. The idea, though, was in providing a completely Comics looked like fun and they looked like they would be different backstory to that article than whatever must have easier to do, or easier to find out if I was any good at doing really happened. That’s a very specific example, because I’m them, than other forms of storytelling. And in the course of actually relating it to an artifact: something I was sent. practicing doing comics, I fell in love with the form. You might see two people in the street arguing, and wonder PS: So today, do you see yourself as a writer who primarily what they’re arguing about, and why. An emotional conflict works in comics or as a comics writer who sometimes works comes out of that, and you build a story around it. The kind of in other media? idea I’m talking about would be just a general idea. Many times KB: I don’t know. I think probably, realistically, I’m a comics a week I’ll come up with a story idea that’s just generally out of writer who sometimes works in other media, because I’m something I’ve seen, or a piece of conversation I’ve overheard, focused so strongly on the comics form. I’m always very interand it’ll just sort of sit there in the back of my mind and ested in who’s doing the art for a story of mine and how the develop into something. And the reason I’m not coming up with lettering is going to work on the page, and even things like logo any specific examples is that the gestation period for these design and interior book design. I get very wrapped up in the things is long enough that I don’t remember where they came process of making comics. from unless it’s very specific like the one I outlined. I tend to think of myself as a writer who happens to work One thing that’s a lot of fun to do as a writer is, if I see a TV largely in comics, though. I’ve written short stories, I would like show, and it ends wrong—it’s got a story and they screwed up to write some novels. I wouldn’t mind doing some stuff in the story—then like anybody talking over a movie, I’ll go, “Boy, screenplay form if I’m ever healthy enough to have the spare what should have happened is this.” And if I like what I’ve time. But while that may be my general mental image, the come up with, I’ve got a new ending. So I just come up with a reality of it is that I’m not simply writing stories that get made new beginning [laughter] to match the new ending, and I end into comic books. I’m deeply invested in the comics form, and up with a whole new story. it would be a very different process to write for another PS: When you star ted out did you want to be a writer, or did medium. When I’ve done it, it always takes a lot of adjustment. you specifically want to be a comics writer? PS: You took courses in school to help learn how to become KB: Well, that depends on when you mean. I aimed myself at a creative writer. Was this before or after you star ted becoming a comic book writer starting from junior high school. teaching yourself how to write comics? I had always wanted to be a writer. I had always wanted to KB: Mostly it was college. Scott and I did that comic, “The write stories, but I found the prospect of writing an entire novel Battle of Lexington,” in high school. We both ended up going to manuscript and finding out when it was done that I had no the same college, Syracuse University. Scott took lots of art ability, that I sucked at it, was intimidating enough that I never and illustration courses, and I took creative writing, got more than a page and a half into working on a novel idea, playwrighting, magazine publishing, comparative mythology, at least not when I was a kid. “Magic and Religion,” “The Bible and Literature,” anything that I Then, I stumbled into the idea that—hey, wait a minute, real thought could give me the skills that I could use to make a people write comics for a living, they get paid for it, it’s a job. I success in the comics business. can pinpoint the moment I realized that. There is a letter PS: Did these courses actually help you in comics writing? column somewhere around X-Men 97, 98, 99, where Chris KB: I don’t know. Claremont is answering a letter, and he tells a little anecdote PS: I’m par ticularly interested in how the courses in about how his grandfather occasionally asks him, “So, you mythology and religion might have helped your work in write funny books, Chris. So that’s nice, that’s fine, but what do comics. Did you take them specifically to learn about the you do for a living?” And that made me go, “Hey, wait a minute, mythic aspects of super-heroes? this guy does do this for a living. That sounds like a good job. KB: I certainly took them because I was aiming at comics, and That sounds like a lot of fun.” More importantly for me, the 44 | WRITE NOW

plot, if it doesn’t take the comics were overwhelmingly characters and put them in a super-hero back then, even different position, resolve more so than they are today. something, explicate a So taking a course in the conflict, do something that English novel didn’t really means the story is moving seem to be as applicable. differently once the song is Although, certainly, even there over. we were talking about things A perfect example of this is like construction of theme and the Fred Astaire movie Royal character and conflict and all Wedding. It has a fantastic sorts of techniques that were opening, it’s full of terrific useful. production numbers, and it’s a PS: This was in the creative rotten movie, because most of writing courses? the numbers have nothing to KB: Yeah. And in courses that do with the story. When Fred were analyses of literature. I Astaire and whoever the girl is was learning a lot about story are singing “A Foggy Day in analysis and story London Town,” the story is at construction, but not in ways a complete dead stop. When that had a lot of immediate he’s on the ship dancing with application to the kind of a hatrack, it’s a beautifully action story that most superstaged musical number, but hero stories are. So I took the story has stopped dead. mythology studied as literature. Whereas if you look at Comparative religion, comparsomething like On the Town or ative mythology, “Magic and even, getting out of musical Religion,” these were ways to film, something like The study larger than life legends Mikado, every single musical and beliefs in the hope of number in those shows is applying the stuff to super-hero about moving the plot along, stories. is about moving the What I discovered, though, characters along, is about was that the most useful telling the story. Whereas course I took in terms of that Royal Wedding is a pageant sort of thing was a course in From Kurt’s first Avenger’s story in Avengers Annual #19. and the story and the music movie musicals. And the Art by Richard Howell. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc..] are completely separate. And lesson that I learned out of it aside from the setting up of the characters and the conflict in was more of a lesson that came out of frustration with the the first 20 minutes, the movie is dead. Have you seen it? course rather than the intent of the course. PS: Actually, Royal Wedding is one of my favorite musicals, but This was a survey course in the movie musical. We would I agree with what you say about its construction: the plot has see a movie and then would have one of the professors talk to nothing to do with most of the musical numbers, and I suffer us about it, and we’d argue with him, and all that sort of stuff. through the story to get to the brilliant musical set pieces. But one of the professors was from the musical theater KB: Whereas if you pick another song, like “I Won’t Dance, department, and one of the professors was from the cinema Don’t Ask Me,” from Roberta, that’s all about story. department. The theater guy would talk about the movie we So, translating that to comics, let’s say you have Spider-Man had just seen as if it was a stage musical. And the cinema fighting the Scorpion. And at the end of the fight, the professor would talk about the movie as if it was a movie. Scorpion’s gotten away, and all you’ve done is have an action There was no overlap. They never got to the point of discussing scene for eight pages. That’s boring. Now Spider-Man’s got to the movie musical. What is it about the combination of the two figure out how to find the Scorpion—but that’s where he was that makes this form special? before. If you could take that fight out, and it wouldn’t change And so, when we had to write our final papers, we were given the development of the story, that’s a bad fight scene. a choice of topics, and I said I wanted to write on a different So it was actually applying that principle to movie musicals topic. I wanted to write on the integration of music and song and studying how the musical number affected the storytelling and dance and all into the story, which was something they’d that taught me more about how the action sequence needs to never covered the whole time. And that was the part I was affect the storytelling in a comic than anything that I took in most interested in: how the storytelling in a movie musical is “Comparative Mythology” or “Magic and Religion.” Although the different than in a non-musical. “Magic and Religion” course was a really cool course, and I’m Ultimately, what I ended up doing was writing a paper sure there are bits and pieces of it I’ve used here and there, it comparing the musical number in a movie musical with the just wasn’t as consciously a breakthrough as the musical fight scene in a super-hero comic, because likely they serve the theater course. same functions. A musical number in a musical—a stage PS: Did you learn more about comics writing through trial and musical or a film musical—is a bore if it doesn’t advance the BUSIEK | 45

error on your own than through courses in writing? KB: Absolutely. Certainly I got out of the courses everything I could at that point manage to get out of the courses. I was essentially trying to create a curriculum for a degree that didn’t exist. I ended up getting my degree in English literature, but the curriculum I was trying to build—I was trying to guide myself through training as a writer, specifically, as a comic book writer. PS: I realize in retrospect that I was unconsciously doing something similar in my school years, pursuing interests that later proved relevant to my career in comics as an historian. KB: You look at the course catalogue and you go, there might be something, ten percent of this class, twenty percent of that class, which might be applicable to what I want. And that’s a higher percentage than anything else offers. So I’m taking those two. But the actual formal writing classes were not a whole lot of use. On the one hand, they were generally taught by teachers who felt that art has no rules, which may be true. But craft has plenty of rules. There aren’t any absolute rules, but there are a hell of a lot of rules of thumb, and there are a hell of a lot of diagnostic rules. And we didn’t learn a whole lot about that. We learned much more about theme and appreciation and intangibles than about exposition or how to make dialogue sound real or other craft questions that I was more interested in having addressed. And many of the courses were classic writing courses, where somebody would write something and the rest of the class would talk about it. But there wasn’t a whole lot of useful critique there because most of the class didn’t know what they were doing either. Nobody wanted to be particularly mean in critiquing somebody’s work because then, when it was their turn, everyone would be mad at them. So I found that aspect of studying writing in college to be confusing, and it left me, even years later, feeling that there was something about writing that I didn’t understand and I probably wasn’t really cut out to be a writer. The fact that I was making my living as a writer was a fraud that would someday be discovered and proved and I’d be out of the business. So, yeah, I learned more by doing, by practice, by working with Scott McCloud or working with Richard Howell or talking to Carol Kalish than I did through formal classes. PS: Before you star ted writing comics professionally, you spent a lot of time analyzing comics. How did you go about this, and what kinds of things were you looking for? KB: Scott and I didn’t really know what we were looking for. We would do things like take a run of Avengers and count all the panels on all the pages and then average them so we could say, yeah, on average, good super-hero comics have somewhere between five and seven panels per page, and if they’re gonna have less than that or more than that, there better be a good reason. Or it might be simply we would take a comic and boil it down to: it opens with an action scene that establishes this and this and this about the character; the next scene is a conversation scene that starts the plot moving, and so on. We were trying to get a sense of how much story fits into how much space, and what kind of scenes established what pieces of the story. Scott was also more interested, as we can see in his book Understanding Comics, with things like scene transition and scene setting. And I was far more interested in scene content, in breaking down a story into a structure, and how that structure functions. I was interested in analyzing the differ46 | WRITE NOW

ences between something like Will Eisner’s Spirit stories that would have, say, a framing sequence around a series of flashbacks, versus a Stan Lee-Jack Kirby Captain America story, which would be wall-to-wall action with just enough of a plot structure to hang the action on and to make you feel like something was accomplished, something mattered. Or comparing how Cary Bates introduced plot elements and structured out a story versus how Roy Thomas did it. We were kind of pulling apart everything we were reading and trying to see what made it work in the hopes of finding something that was useful. But I don’t think we had a conscious goal of, “We are looking for this kind of thing.” It was just a matter of taking it apart to see what we found while we were taking it apart. We did things like, we tried to list all of the super-characters who appeared in Marvel Comics. This was pretty stupid since at that point we had maybe five percent of all Marvel comics [laughter] so some of the characters we never would have seen. But just listing them and categorizing them into various different kinds of heroes and different kinds of villains and different kinds of non-villain threats, ultimately that was just kind of indexing, but it did give us a better sense that, you know, the kind of villains Daredevil fought are of a different class of character than the kind of villains that the Avengers fought. Which was kind of a half-assed way of figuring out street-level crime stories and cosmic super-hero stories require different elements. But we were sixteen years old. What did we know? [laughter] But at sixteen, even that was a valuable lesson to learn. PS: Still, some of the other things you’ve talked about stor y analysis suggest you were taking something of a scientific approach to the subject. KB: I think that’s probably because I’m describing it in retrospect. It didn’t feel to me at the time that we were taking a scientific approach to it, to the analysis we were doing. We did it that way because that was kind of what we knew how to do. Not because we were focused. And the more we analyzed comics stories, and the more we practiced doing comics, the more we put the ideas we were coming up with into practice and saw what worked and what didn’t. But at least in the beginning, it started out as just blind, omni-directional exploration, because we didn’t know anything. We were just hunting for anything that would be helpful. PS: Who do you consider to be the masters of comics writing who’ve influenced your work? KB: Early on I was probably most strongly influenced by Roy Thomas, Steve Englehart and Cary Bates. Since then I’ve been influenced by—well, within comics, Will Eisner and Jules Feiffer and whoever else was working with Will, Archie Goodwin, Milton Caniff, Leonard Starr, Frank Miller, Neil Gaiman. But at the same time I was being influenced by this stuff in comics, I was also being strongly influenced by William Goldman’s narrative style, Stephen King’s narrative style, Nevil Shute’s approach to character and story construction, Dick Francis’ approach to character presentation. I don’t take my influences purely from comics. I would love to be influenced by Robert Towne and Walter Tevis if I could figure out what the hell they’re doing that works so well. Walter Tevis, who wrote The Hustler, The Color of Money, and The Man Who Fell to Earth, he’s the writer I read when I just want to beat myself up and say, “You’ll never be this good.” Reading Tevis makes me go, “I’m just never going to get

it, am I?” This guy wrote like an angel, and I can’t figure out what it is that works so well about what he wrote. But that’s the thing that keeps giving me a goal to reach for—reading the work of guys who I don’t think I’ll ever be as good as. Whereas reading somebody like Stephen King or reading Dick Francis or reading Lawrence Block, I’m far more likely to say, “Hey, that was a really nice scene and I know how he did it.” And there’s a principle that he used, a technique that he used, that I can probably adapt and use myself somewhere. And I’ve learned that it’s always good to stay in touch with the idea that there’s something beyond craft, too. Some kind of intuition. I’m sure there are guys out there who read Walter Tevis and say, yeah, I know how he did that, but who at the same time might read Nevil Shute’s novels and have no idea how he made that work, because their sensibility matches up to Tevis’, but not to Shute’s. PS: Which leads us to: How do you define craft? KB: Craft is the tools we use, but it’s not the object we build with them. If you’re a sculptor, using a chisel is a craft you need to master. What you do with that chisel is art or failure. So as writers, how we use narrative, how we use dialogue, how we pace a scene—these are BUSIEK continues on page 48

KURT ON

WRITING FOR COMICS vs. WRITING FOR OTHER MEDIA PS: Can you learn about comics writing from studying other media? Or does studying writing in other media lead people to ignore the specific strengths of the comics medium? KB: [Laughter] I agree with both sides. I think you can learn an enormous amount about writing comics from other media, but you have to focus on the idea that comics are not other media. And if you do get tied up in the idea of making your comics cinematic, you’ll run into the fact that there are things that the cinema can do that comics can’t. But there are also things that comics can do that cinema can’t. So if you focus purely upon the cinematic, you’ll be selling the medium short, doing something that you can do better in another medium. However, if you try to borrow from cinema what works well in comics, at the same time that you borrow from prose what works well in comics, and from adver tising design, from anything that you can come up with, that often works well. But keep focused on the idea that you’re looking for what works well in comics, rather than trying to duplicate one medium in a medium that has different strengths and weaknesses. That’s what you need to do in order to serve your story and serve the medium best. PS: Can you give any examples? KB: Unless you’re doing split screen in the movies, you don’t have the juxtaposition of images. In comics you can do a big, looming, ominous panel over the top third of the page with panels that are inset, so for the rest of the page, you’re getting a claustrophobic feeling because that big heavy panel of the exterior of a haunted house or whatever is there on the page in the field of vision as the reader is reading those panels. You can change the image size in comics. You can go from small panels to large panels, tall panels, short panels, these will affect the speed of reading. A full page spread with no words in it stops the readers dead. They take in that image. In order to do that on screen you have to hold on the image for ten, fifteen seconds. On the other hand, that same size image with a lot of words on it goes by a lot faster, or is perceived to, even though it takes longer to read, because the reader spends more of his time focusing on the caption boxes or the balloons than the art itself. That same fifteen seconds held on a shot with dialogue over it in a movie, that visual is going to persist, it’s going to have the impact because you’re using your eyes to look at the visual while your ears are hearing the dialogue. In a comic it’s your eyes that take in the dialogue, so any dialogue is going to be in competition with the image. Small silent panels seem to go by very fast; large silent panels seem to go by very slowly. Panels with a lot of dialogue in them tend to be more about the dialogue than the image. Panels with very little dialogue tend to be about the image rather than the dialogue. And balancing this stuff is a matter of experience and practice. But it has an effect that you can’t achieve on film. Similarly, you can do multiple narratives more readily in a comic. You can do it in film to some degree in that you can have an over-voice doing one narrative track while the visual is showing you another aspect of the story. The classic example of that—and here I am with movie musicals again—is Singin’ in the Rain and the “Dignity, always dignity” speech. PS: At first, when you mentioned multiple narratives, I thought you meant COMICS VS. OTHER MEDIA continues on page 48 BUSIEK | 47

COMICS VS. OTHER MEDIA continued from page 47

separate plots, as in the end of the film Intolerance, in which D.W. Griffith is continually shifting among four separate stor ylines. KB: Yeah, when he’s cutting from one to another, he’s actually jumping from scene to scene rather than having both on the screen simultaneously. But when Gene Kelly, in that “Dignity, always dignity” speech, is talking about how they came to Hollywood and waited for the offers to come in, we see them huddled in a rainstorm out in front of a newsstand. The two contradictory pieces of information you’re getting, you’re getting simultaneously. That’s something you can’t do in a novel, say, because in a novel you get one word at a time. PS: This is a technique that is used a great deal in Watchmen. KB: Also in Daredevil: Born Again. Miller does a whole lot with establishing a narrative line either through dialogue or captions that have a particular voice that comment on or contrast with what we’re actually seeing in the picture. And in Elektra: Assassin Miller does it to the point where sometimes he’s got four or five different narrative lines going on at once. So you’ve got three of the guys narrating something across the page, you’ve got some panels that are from a character’s perceptions, some panels that are “reality.” It would be information overload if it was all happening on a movie screen. But in a comic where you can put the dialogue in different shaped boxes or different colors, where there can be “reality” and an hallucinatory image right next to each other on a page, there’s just—you’re not simply dealing with layered information as you are in a novel. It’s more immediate. And you’re not simply dealing with visual information as you are in a movie. You’re dealing with graphics. The story can be affected by whether the word balloon is at the top of the panel or at the bottom of the panel. And that’s not something you can do with prose or with motion picture photography. I’m talking about the possibilities rather than about specific techniques, and what I would recommend to any would-be writer is play around with it, to

see what techniques work for them. A lot of times I get e-mail from people who are asking me what tips I can give them. All I can really tell them is, practice. If a technique looks interesting to you, try using it yourself. It may not work for you, but you’re going to learn far more by experimenting and figuring out what techniques have the most impact in your hands than by figuring out what techniques have the most impact in my hands. I’m telling my stories, and my stories are going to be different from your stories. I could use a whole lot of techniques that work very well for Alan Moore, and the end result will be it’ll feel like an Alan Moore pastiche, because I’m using the techniques intellectually rather than using them viscerally to support the heart of the story I’m telling. Because I just don’t click into those techniques as a writer. PS: You’d be imitating someone else’s style rather than developing your own. KB: Right, right. I don’t think there’s anything really wrong with imitation as a starting point. But you imitate to try things out. You imitate to see if you can do that. And then some people codify what they just learned into a rule. That’s where they stagnate, that’s where they don’t develop their own voice. If they stay loose, if they play around with it more, if they try different things, they’ll get a sense that this particular technique may work very well for a writer whose work they enjoy reading, but it really doesn’t come to life on the page for them. If so, they should stop using it and try something else. The best way to develop your own voice as a creator is to try any technique you’ve seen somebody use that you think is a good one, but don’t be married to it. If you like the way Frank Miller uses captions as first person narrative or as third person “focus narrative,” give it a try. If it doesn’t work for you, it’s not wrong. It just means is that it works well for Frank—but you’re not Frank.

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all craft questions. But what we tell with that craft, that’s where the ar t comes in, and that’s where it’s all about your individual voice, your individual muse, your individual passion. PS: Now for the obligator y question: how did you break into writing comics professionally? KB: I knew I wanted to be a professional comics writer. I had been writing letters to letter columns for years, and a lot had been published. I had been writing reviews and doing editorial work for the trade press, but I had no idea how you go about submitting work. While I was taking a magazine publishing course in college, for our term paper we had to interview the publisher of a national magazine and do a paper on, I don’t know, I think it was advertising sales and how they 48 | WRITE NOW

THE END

affected the magazine economically, or something like that. It was a long time ago [laughter]. I don’t remember the paper topic. But since I was focused on comics, I convinced my instructor to classify DC Comics, as a line, as a national magazine itself, on the grounds that they all carried the same advertising. You didn’t buy ads in Superman; you bought ads in DC Comics. So the entire DC Comics line could be taken as an analogue, for ad sales purposes, to a national magazine. And instead of interviewing the publisher of DC, I got permission to interview the editor in chief, who at the time was Dick Giordano. I called Dick’s office, and he was willing to do it. So one Thanksgiving break, I took the bus down to New York City, and I interviewed Dick for my paper. At the

there wasn’t time for anything to be appreciated, there wasn’t end of the interview I told Dick that, when I got out of college, I anything going on. I said, “Well, you gave me only fifteen was hoping to be a professional comics writer. He invited me to pages, and you gave me this plot, that you typed out yourself.” send him some scripts. He said, “Well, you should have argued with me!” [Laughter] So I went back to college and I wrote the paper and I wrote Here I am [laughter], just out of college, and I’m talking to about 80 pages worth of DC script samples. I wrote a Julie-friggin’-Schwartz! I wasn’t going to argue with him! Not for Supergirl story; I wrote a Flash story; I wrote a Brave and the a second! Bold story featuring Batman and Green Lantern, and I wrote a Anyway, the Green Lantern Corps script that I did for Ernie, Superman: The In-Between Years backup, which was a series Ernie bought it and he assigned it to Richard Howell to draw, featuring Clark Kent in college, when he was no longer and it wound up being our first published story. I wrote another Superboy and not quite Superman. Virtually all of my scripts couple of Green Lantern Corps stories for Ernie that never got were Cary Bates knockoffs, not swiping any particular Cary published. story, just his approach to storytelling. They were very much But right on the heels of selling that “Green Lantern Corps” Julie Schwartz–Cary Bates kinds of scripts. story, I pitched a Power Man/Iron Fist fill-in to Denny O’Neil at I sent them in to Dick, and every now and then I’d call up Marvel. I had noticed that there was supposed to be a new Dick’s office and I’d talk to his secretary, reminding her that he regular writer on Power Man/Iron Fist. Jo Duffy had left. It was actually asked for these [laughter] and they’re not slush pile announced that a new writer would be taking over. But month stuff. And either Dick got tired of me or he finally looked after month they were all one-issue stories written by Denny. I through the scripts enough to recognize that they were at least figured, if the editor is writing fill-ins, maybe he could use a decently written. He passed them out to the editors of the little help. So I wrote up a one-issue Power Man story and sent books they were written for. So Julie Schwartz got the Supergirl it with a note saying I was already professionally writing for DC; and the Superman: The In-Between Years scripts, and he I didn’t mention that the sum total of the professional writing I passed them over to E. Nelson Bridwell, who read them. Ernie was doing for DC was seven pages. I did say I’d been profesColón got the Flash script; Len Wein got the Brave and the sionally writing for Ernie Colón at DC, though. Bold script. Denny read the plot springboard and he liked it. He called And then I made appointments, and after I finished finals, me up and asked me to flesh it out into a script, which I did, and before my actual graduation ceremony, I was down in New and he liked that. He made a few changes, gave it to the artist York looking for an apartment and going up to DC to talk to to draw. I pitched another, and he bought that too, so I got these editors. ambitious and pitched a two-parter, and he bought it. And by It turned out I had absolutely horrible luck, because during the time I was done with the two-par ter, I was the regular the time between when I wrote those scripts and when I was writer on Power Man/Iron Fist. Which lasted for about eight talking to the editors, things changed. I wrote a Supergirl script more months until the low sales on the book necessitated a during the period that she was a soap opera actress when the creative change. At that point I felt like, maybe I hadn’t broken series was running in Superman Family. That series was very far into the business, but I’d broken in. ending and they were starting the new Paul KupperbergPS: I understand it took you ten years from the time you broke Carmine Infantino Daring New Adventures of Supergirl series, in to when you star ted making a living solely from writing. so the script was useless. Nelson had told Julie that both the KB: Not quite ten years. It was eight years until I was scripts were perfectly professional, saleable; if the series were supporting myself through writing. And it was eleven years still running, they could have been bought as inventory. before I was actually a success—before my name meant Unfortunately, the Superman: The In-Between Years series had something critically and commercially. also been cancelled, and while it came back a few years later PS: So how did you keep up your confidence? At what point as a mini-series, at that particular point, both of those scripts should a person with lack of success give up on comics were perfectly viable, but their series didn’t exist anymore. writing and turn to another career? The Flash script that I had written, Ernie Colón liked it quite KB: Jeez, I couldn’t tell you. ’Cause I didn’t. [Laughter] Like I a bit, but of course Cary Bates had been writing The Flash for said, I wrote about a year’s worth of Power Man/Iron Fist And something like eight years at that point, and he wasn’t leaving shortly after I got that job, I was back at home living with my anytime soon. So it wasn’t as if Ernie could buy that from me. But Julie assigned me a Superboy fill-in. He actually invited me to come up with pitches for Superboy stories, and I came up with about eighteen pitches, and he rejected every single one of them and gave me an idea of his own to write up. Ernie invited me to come up with pitches for Tales of the Green Lantern Corps, the backup series that was running in the back of Green Lantern, and so I came up with about eighteen or twenty of those. Ernie actually liked one of them and asked me to write that up as a script. The Superboy script I started writing up; once I was about six pages into it, I brought it in, showed it to Julie and he hated it. He said Tales of the Green Lantern Corps. From Green Lantern #162. Written by Kurt. Art by Richard Howell. that the story was moving along much too fast, [©2003 DC Comics.] BUSIEK | 49

mom, and the amount of money I was getting from writing one Marvel comic a month was quite nice for somebody who was living at home. But by the time the PM/IF gig ended, I had moved back to Syracuse, and into my own apartment. I was paying rent and buying groceries. So at the point I lost that gig, I had no money. I needed to do something. I actually went to work for Sears up there, working in their service department. I was the guy who answered the phone and told people that, “Yeah, we’ll send someone out to fix your refrigerator, but we’re really backed up, we can’t have someone out there till three weeks from now.” I lasted at that job for one day. I didn’t get fired. I just couldn’t stand going back in there and telling people that, if their refrigerator wasn’t working, they were out of luck for a month. So I made a couple of calls, I took the bus down to New York, and slept on Richard Howell’s sofa in the basement for something like three weeks while I made the rounds talking to editors, trying to find work. I lined up a Justice League fill-in from Len Wein, and a Red Tornado mini-series that I developed with Dick Giordano but that got assigned to Alan Gold to edit. I didn’t actually get any writing work from Marvel, but Jim Salicrup offered me a job as the assistant editor on Marvel Age, the company’s official fan magazine. That was enough work to live on, particularly once I wrote the Red Tornado miniseries. I wrote it full script, and wrote it all at once, and that paid enough money to cover my back rent, to rent the U-Haul to move down to New Jersey, put a security deposit on an apartment, and buy a refrigerator. Red Tornado was very good to me. [Laughter] Came through when I needed it. At that point, I was writing fill-ins for DC and I was assistant editing Marvel Age for Marvel. I did that for about a year while I tried to line up other work—maybe a year and a half. By the end, what had happened was I had two projects in development at DC—two series that Alan Gold was the editor on— and a Madame Masque mini-series at Marvel that Denny O’Neil was the editor on. And based on the strength of that, based on that writing work, I quit the Marvel Age job and I got Jim Salicrup to hire my roommate for the job instead, who was also somebody who wanted to be working in comics, and had the appropriate publishing skills and all. PS: This would be Adam Philips. KB: Yes, it would. So I had this freelance work, and about ten days later, Denny O’Neil quit Marvel and went over to DC to be an editor there, and Alan Gold quit comics entirely. All my work was gone. I couldn’t get my old job back, because my roommate had it! [Laughter] The projects I had in development—there weren’t any other editors interested in picking them up; they were just dead. So I found a job as an assistant editor at a book publisher and I did that for about two weeks, but that wasn’t really working out. They needed somebody who had more book publishing experience than I had and they weren’t really in a position to train me. I worked at Burger King for a little while. And I got a job as a trainee agent at a literary agency. I did that for two and a half years. That was a period when I was writing stuff for Eclipse. There was The Liberty Project and a couple of other jobs. And I was pitching stuff to DC. By the end of my time at the literary agency, Carol Kalish [who was then running the direct sales depar tment at Mar vel. —DF] wanted to do a science-fiction magazine at Marvel. Since I was a literary agent handling science-fiction writers, she had 50 | WRITE NOW

me write a series bible for it, to create the universe that all these stories would take place in. Once I’d done that, and the magazine was kind of underway, she offered me the job of being both the sales manager in the direct sales department at Marvel and of editing the magazine. So I left the literary agency and went on staff at Marvel as a sales guy and as the only editor not working for the editorial department. The magazine was called Open Space. It lasted four issues. I lasted for two years, maybe a little bit more, in the direct sales department. PS: Had you had any editorial experience besides assisting on Marvel Age at this point? Why were you chosen for the Open Space gig? KB: I’d been an assistant editor at New Media Irjax, working for Carol (and Richard Howell) on fan magazines such as Comics Feature and LoC, and on comics projects including Adventure Illustrated and other material, much of which never got published. That, plus the Marvel Age experience, plus the literary agent experience, which often involved helping writers shape or re-work a story to make it better (I advised writers from rank newcomers to Norman Mailer and Harry Kemelman— I don’t really think Mailer or Kemelman needed my advice, though), and apparently between that, the many conversations Carol and I had had about the theory and practice of making comics, and the fact that I’d written the series bible and understood the world the series would be set in better than anyone else, Carol figured I was the right guy for the job. As it turned out, I had the skills to work with writers and artists, shepherd the book through production and get it off to press. What I didn’t have was time—the direct sales job turned out to be about a 50-hour-a-week job, sometimes more, and Open Space was something I needed to do on top of that. Anyway, by the end of that, it was 1990 and I was ready to leave staff. I was writing a bunch of What Ifs for Marvel editor Craig Anderson, and I went to San Diego that year to see what other writing I could pick up. I couldn’t write for any other publishers while I was on staff at Marvel, but I wanted to see, if I left staff, where were the possibilities going to be. David Cody Weiss at Disney Comics offered me some Mickey Mouse work, I talked to editor in chief Cat Yronwode at Eclipse and we developed something that eventually turned into The Wizard’s Tale, which was eventually published by WildStorm. And right around that time Harris Comics was starting up again, and Richard Howell was the editor there, and he hired me to be the writer of the Vampirella relaunch. I had Vampirella from Harris, I had various What If’s and later some Spider-Man fill-ins from some guy named Danny Fingeroth at Marvel, I had Mickey Mouse and a mini-series based on the Final Fantasy video game (that ultimately was never published) from Disney. And to show how long ago this was, after the proposal was accepted, it had to be revised completely because they were coming out with Final Fantasy 2. I don’t know what Final Fantasy we’re up to now. PS: It’s far from final. KB: Indeed. So, based on the strength of those assignments, not only did I leave staff, but—not remembering anything from the last time I left staff—I moved to the Pacific Northwest with my wife, so if all the editors I was working with suddenly quit and all the projects disappeared, I wouldn’t know anyone, I wouldn’t know what I was doing, and I’d be completely lost because I was in a strange town.

END

PART

ONE

The Kurt Busiek Interview Continues Next Issue!

Before the art… before the dialogue… before the plot… there is the outline. Here, we reproduce Kurt’s handwritten notes for The Power Company #10.

Here, Kurt gives himself the roughest and most general idea of what will be on each page. This gives him a “roadmap” for when he actually writes the story.

BUSIEK | 51

Kurt Busiek:

From Struggling To Superstardom While most successful writers become “overnight successes” after many years of hard work, few have had the dramatic and sudden change in status that Kurt Busiek had. One day he’s a talented, hardworking comics writer, doing a variety of assignments for a variety of companies. The next day, Marvels comes out and is so well received and highly thought of by fans and pros alike that Kurt rockets to the top of the comics heap virtually overnight. His royalties are staggering. His phone keeps ringing off the hook with offers of assignments. We wondered how an experience like that affects a writer. Was Kurt prepared for such sudden success? Was he able to use it to his advantage on a longterm basis? Herewith, Kurt discusses some of these issues. —DF

DANNY FINGEROTH: Can you briefly describe how Marvels came to be and how you came to be associated with it? KURT BUSIEK: I had worked with Alex Ross before, on a story that didn’t get published. But he got paid for the work, so when he decided to take another try at getting comics work, he contacted me. I gave him some advice, and helped him line up a little work, but not that much. Still, he had an idea for an ongoing anthology of painted super-hero stories called Marvel and he’d done some sample paintings of characters he’d like to see in it—the original Human Torch, the Thing, Gwen Stacy, folks like that. I suggested he’d have an easier time selling the project if it was a mini-series, and if there were a single connecting story to it all, not just anthology pieces. We talked about that while his samples were being shown around. Eventually, they got to Marc McLaurin at Marvel, who hired Alex to paint a Clive Barker’s Hellraiser story, and Marc wanted to know whether there was a project in these paintings of Marvel heroes. Alex told him that he and I were working on some ideas, and did he want to see a proposal? He did. So Alex and I worked up the idea of building the series around a news photographer, worked up a story outline, and sent it in. And it was promptly rejected. But then editor-in-chief Tom DeFalco, one of the people who’d rejected it, suggested that, instead of having Phil Sheldon get involved with the heroes in a bunch of new, continuity-implant stories, why not redo it so that it featured established events in Marvel history—the creation of the FF, the day Galactus came to Earth, that sort of thing. So I took the story apart and rewrote it around actual Marvel history instead of the invented stuff in the first version. That one, they bought. DF: Did anyone have any idea Marvels would be as big as it became? KB: I don’t think so. Everyone liked the art, but I don’t think there was any great sense that the series was going to be a big success—I wasn’t anyone important, and Alex was a newcomer, and we were telling stories about the past, which was not considered a sales plus. We’d been told that opening up the series in World War II was surefire sales death, but we were unwilling to change that. I think the first point at which we started to get the idea that this was going to be more than a quirky little project was when Terry Stewart, then Marvel’s president, saw the art for the first issue and flipped. He started promoting it personally, showing it off at cons and talking it up with retailers. When the president of the company does that, you know something’s going on... DF: How did Marvels success affect your career? KB: Slowly. It didn’t really win me more work from Marvel right away—I was asked to pitch more series ideas, but they didn’t go anywhere, and the only work I was offered immediately post-Marvels was Night Thrasher and a revived Ecto-Kid. But it opened doors for me elsewhere—particularly at Image Comics, where virtually all the Image partners wanted me to do something with their characters. Eventually, I got the Untold Tales of Spider-Man series at Marvel, and I launched Astro City. With the commercial and critical success of those two, it was clear that Marvels hadn’t been a fluke, and that’s when I started getting a lot more offers. DF: How did you deal with sudden huge success? KB: I just tried to keep doing good work. After eleven years

of slogging through the trenches, I had a pretty well-developed sense of perspective, and I never thought that Marvels made me a big shot, or that the interest I got meant anything more than that the publishers thought maybe my name could sell some comics for them. It gave me opportunities, but it was still up to me to make something of those opportunities. DF: Did Marvels’ success give you the clout and/or courage to star t Astro City? KB: Yes. And the money! Astro City was financed with the royalties from Marvels. We had to decide whether to pay off the mortgage or do this creator-owned book, so we gambled on the book. DF: Was Astro City something you’d been planning for a while? KB: Sort of. I’d been interested in doing that kind of story for a long time. I’d done a couple of backup stories in that mold before Marvels, and I’d even pitched the idea of a series called Marvel Super-Heroes, about a sandwich shop in the Baxter Building. [Despite this being an e-mail inter view, I laughed when I read this last line. —DF] In each story, we’d see someone stop in the shop, and then we’d follow them back out into Marvel’s New York, and see how their lives were affected by the heroes around them. (In Marvels #4, we put a deli in the Baxter Building, Iggy’s Super-Heroes, as a nod to that idea.) But nobody thought it would work. After Marvels, it seemed more like it could work. DF: Why did you decide to put your name in the Astro City logo? Do you think doing so helped sales, since you were “The Marvels Guy”? Did it help your career and visibility? KB: Part of it was to help sales—my name was better known than the title, so why not remind people that the guy who wrote Marvels wrote this, too? But mostly it was that someone at Image thought the title was too goofy, that it sounded like a book about the Jetsons’ dog. I tried to come up with other titles, but didn’t like any of them. So I eventually fastened on the idea of putting my name in the title because it’s kinda snooty and arrogant, and it’d give the title a lofty, selfimportant feeling that would compensate for any

goofiness. Did it help my career? Probably— it made sure people remembered my name, even if nobody knew how to pronounce it. With the new Astro City series, we’ve taken my name out of the title, by the way—I think it’s served its purpose, and I’d rather make it clear that the book is a team effort, not a solo act. DF: What was Gorilla? How and why did it come about? KB: Gorilla Comics Kurt Busiek & Alex Ross’ first collaboration would was a publishing have been in the Busiek edited Open Space. Years imprint created by later Wizard would reprint the story in an Alex Ross me, Mark Waid and special. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] a group of fellow pros. The idea was that if we banded together, we could launch a creator-owned line that would do better than any single book we could each launch on our own. But we had a backer—a guy who was supposed to be supplying the money and the business structure—and after we’d solicited the first issues, it turned out he had no money after all, but had done a good job of making it look like he had. So we were essentially selfpublishing, financing the books ourselves. Very few of the group were prepared to do that, we had no promotional budget, no ability to weather poor sales and make it to the first TPB collections... and the line fell apart. DF: Had it sur vived, would that have been the ideal type of publishing situation for you, with the structure of a company, but the freedom and autonomy of creator ownership? KB: Absolutely. That was the whole idea—build a company that had all the support structure of a publisher, but that we owned, so we could do the projects we most wanted to do without bouncing from publisher to publisher. DF: Would you ever do anything like Gorilla again, or was it too much like being a businessman? KB: I’d love to, but only if the financial backing was really there. I have no desire to take out another mortgage on my house in order to finish doing the books I said I’d do. I’m proud to have published everything I said I would, but we didn’t go into it expecting to fund the company ourselves. DF: If you were on Inside The Actors Studio, what would you like to hear James Lipton say? KB: “What the hell are you doing here? Are you an actor? What are you? Security!”

THE END BUSIEK | 53

Again, here are Kurt’s notes for Avengers Vol. 3 #40, “Thoom”—which serves as both sound effect and the title of the story—along with the printed art for the first part of the issue. Here are the notes for these pages presented, typeset for easier reading. Of course, the originals were intended for Kurt’s eyes only, so legibility was not an issue.

1 Hulk fist comes down. 2/3 They fightin’ Goliath--! Not my fault! Would’a waited. Pained. Hank! 4—take in trouble. Call for SHIELD—Leonard Samson. Len/Bruce—we hep! 5—Call Jarvis—Jarvis alarmed—fight going on. Contact She-Hulk? Nevermind, says QS. I go fast. Faster! What we do? Keep him busy—think about what it’d do for SC!/ SC vs. Diablo. He scoffs at her. Decoyed them away… 7—she’s not much trouble. She’s outmatched. Gotta fight--! Be an Avenger!

8– turns her to salt. Grabs up power disc. Exults.

54 | WRITE NOW

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NEXT ISSUE: GET READY FOR MORE INCREDIBLE INFORMATION THAN YOUR BRAIN CAN HANDLE FROM THESE RED-HOT PROS:

WARREN ELLIS Writer of Transmetropolitan, The Authority, and M AG A Z I N E

tons of other amazing comic series. (Interviewed by Jimmy Palmiotti.)

HOWARD CHAYKIN Creator of American Flagg, American Century and the upcoming Mighty Love. Writer of TV’s The Flash and Mutant X.

PAUL DINI The man behind Warner Bros.’ Batman Beyond, writer of the giant-sized Alex Ross-painted DC Specials and the creator of Jingle Belle.

BOB SCHRECK Co-founder of Oni Press, now group editor of DC’s Batman line.

DIANA SCHUTZ Senior Editor at Dark Horse Comics. Edits Will Eisner and Harvey Pekar.

place of Men in Black, now the guiding light behind Platinum Studios, home of J. Michael Straczynski’s Showtime series Jeremiah.

FABIAN NICIEZA Writer of Thunderbolts, New Warriors and X-Men. (Postponed from this issue) The conclusions to the BUSIEK and O’NEIL interviews!

Plus: • More writing lessons from living legend DENNIS O’NEIL! • More freelance coping strategies from STEVEN GRANT! • More reviews of Book on Writing!

From Inker to Editor to Writer:

The Jimmy Palmiotti Interview Interview by Danny Fingeroth in person in Brooklyn, NY November 21, 2002 Edited by Danny Fingeroth / Copy-edited by Jimmy Palmiotti Transcription by The LongBox.com Staff

e’s a writer, he’s an editor, he’s a packager, he’s an inker, he’s a Hollywood property developer. From The Punisher to Marvel Knights to Gatecrasher to 21 Down, Jimmy Palmiotti delivers the goods. You need something original, exciting, professional, and on time? This is the guy who can do it. You need somebody to give you (good) advice on a new idea or project? Again, he’s the go-to guy. You need somebody to give you an interview that doesn’t pull any punches and that tells you what you have to know to navigate the often-treacherous waters of the comics and media businesses? Then just read on… —DF

DANNY FINGEROTH: The basic theme that I want to get to here, Jimmy, is how someone gets from being a comics reader to being a comics writer, and then to the specific twists and turns that Jimmy Palmiotti’s career has taken. The thread that I thought would be interesting is you as the ultimate networker, the guy who knows ever ybody and is able to take the real talents that he has and is able to do something with them. Let’s star t with some basic biographical stuff. You were born in Brooklyn and were interested in ar t…? JIMMY PALMIOTTI: Born and raised in Brooklyn and interested in art since as long as I can remember, entering art contests anywhere I could as a kid. I was always interested in comics but not obsessed with them. They were always around the house. Having two older brothers, comics and Playboys were common around the house, the Playboys having many hiding places. As I grew older, I started collecting comics, not so much the way people collect now, where they bag them and obsess over the condition, more like just trying to get complete runs and such. I would buy comics and trade them with my group of friends that were into the hobby as well. We’d have discussions of who could beat up whom, who was stronger, Superman or the Hulk, and why couldn’t someone just shoot Batman in the head and so on. We didn’t look at credits at the time. It really didn’t matter. My friends and I would sit on a stoop with our comics and trade them like baseball cards. They were twelve cents then, and you could get eight for a dollar. God, now I feel old. When I started collecting comics, I was in sixth or seventh grade in catholic school. Using my bus pass, I traveled 20 minutes to a bookstore on Flatbush Avenue called My Friend’s Bookstore, which is no longer there. For a lot of people growing up in Brooklyn at that time, that was the best place to get your fix of comics. I know for a fact a ton of creators went there as kids, as well as Paul Levitz, who lived in the area. PALMIOTTI | 57

A block south from there was a Salvation Army store that would sell the comic books wrapped up in rope for a buck a pound. Eventually, I trained the guy at the Salvation Army not to rope up the comics, but to put them in boxes for me when I bought them. Back then I had another type of scam where I would get the comics from the Salvation Army that were in good shape that weren’t my favorites, take them to all the barbershops on Flatbush Avenue and trade them. I’d take their old comics that they didn’t need anymore and give them the new ones for the store. Barbershops would have these huge stacks of old comics, and for every new comic I gave them I would pick out five old ones for myself. For me it was volume, more for me to read. I had that going with ten barbershops on Flatbush and a couple on Nostrand Avenue as well. I was rich in comics for a kid my age. DF: Where did you first get the idea that there were people who make comics, and that you could possibly be one of those people? JP: It was when Phil Seuling [“father” of the direct market] used to have comic shows in New York. When I was a kid, my father would take me. DF: Your father used to take you to the Seuling cons? Your father was a fan? JP: He was a fan of anything that I was into. He was very supportive of us kids. If we were into making go-carts, he would get us parts for go-carts. If we were into drawing, he’d go down the block to get stationery from the stationery store and so on, he was always helping us with our interests. DF: Was he an ar tist or creative in any way? JP: He owned a paint store on 82nd and Amsterdam in Manhattan. He sold house paint, hardware and also rented out sanders for people who wanted to sand their floors. During World War II he used to paint pin-up girls on airplanes, and sketch. For him, it was always just a hobby and something fun, nothing serious. DF: How about your mother? JP: She was an artist in dealing with four boys and not killing herself. My mom was a housewife, and she had the harder job, looking back on things. At least my dad could escape to work. But my mom was stuck with us all the time and it was not easy. We were four very hyperactive kids. DF: A well known former comic book ex ecutive, when I told him I was having kids, said that I had to get a day job just to get out of the house. JP: I think, to my father, when the alarm clock went off in the morning, it was like a gun being fired at the racetrack. He went right out of the gate and kept going. That said, the both of them have always been supportive of any of our hobbies. When my younger brother Peter and I started collecting, my father saw us actually sitting there, reading and being quiet, a strange thing at the Palmiotti household. The quiet times were usually followed by something exploding or shattering, but he saw that this time it was different with us. We were doing more than reading comics, we were getting into the hobby of it. I pointed out that there were comics conventions to my dad and I needed a copy of Conan #1 or something like that, and he would take us to the Seuling cons and finagle with the dealers to get me better prices. My dad was supportive like that. DF: At a cer tain point you must have been drawing for a hobby as a kid? JP: It’s pathetic I still have some of the comic strips that I was doing when I was ten or eleven and they were horrendous. My 58 | WRITE NOW

father just supported me. I don’t know if he thought it would go anywhere. He saw that was where my interest lay and he supported us in whatever we did. With one of my brothers it was electronics and with another it was cars. We had a driveway full of cars and my brother, literally, had a basement full of electronic equipment. DF: Did you hang out with your father in the store? JP: I used to work with my dad on Saturdays. My attention span was horrible. My father would open the store at 6:30 in the morning and I would work from 6:30 to 12. My dad had one of those old-fashioned New York stores with chairs in front of the store where the old men used to sit. So by 12 o’clock, he’d tell me to grab lunch with one of the old guys, and the old guys would take me over to the Museum of Natural History or we’d go down to the boat docks. I’d get a history lesson from them and in turn, my father would buy them lunch every day. They were like the bastard uncles in my family. They were from all backgrounds. My father spoke many different languages. No matter who he was dealing with, he was speaking their language, and I never knew what he was saying. He was in World War II and the Korean War. He even spoke a little Jamaican, Spanish, German, Italian and God knows what else. I don’t know how fluently, but whoever walked into the store, he would be popping

off another language. I think to survive in business at that time and in that neighborhood, you had to speak a little bit of everything. My mother spoke half Yiddish and half Italian. It’s an old mix, but if you live in Brooklyn you understand it. Growing up in a mostly Jewish neighborhood you have to pick up Yiddish eventually. The world was a different place. It wasn’t a conscious thing. That was just the way it was. It wasn’t like it is now, where people are conscious of every little racial difference; it was just a bunch of kids in one area. Brooklyn is a melting pot and will always be… it’s all good. DF: I know you went to the High School of Ar t and Design. There must have been a point where you felt that you had a cer tain amount of ability and that you were going to use it for a career. JP: I went to eight years of Catholic school, which is another book in the making, and then in ninth grade I went to Midwood High School in the heart of the Midwood section of Brooklyn. Famous for Carole King. Barbara Striesand, Neil Diamond, and Woody Allen. All in the same neighborhood... that’s a pretty scary group. DF: It’s like Dewitt Clinton High School in the Bronx with Will Eisner, Bob Kane, and later on [comedian] Rober t Klein. JP: Almost all comic book artists at one time or another lived in Brooklyn. That’s the scary part. And all of them have a Brooklyn story somewhere. there are a ton that still live here. It’s its own city, with four million people. When I was in ninth grade in Midwood, instead of Spanish, they offered me the job of painting the murals for the school plays. I’d draw it out and project it on the wall and then paint it. I couldn’t get into art class but every time I handed in a project I drew a cover for whatever it was. One of the teachers recognized that I had some talent. One Monday that teacher said to me: “You’re taking the test for the High School of Art and Design. I signed you up and you have to go on Wednesday, you have to take a test.” She did that for me without asking me. I was afraid to go because my brother had taken the test earlier and didn’t get in, and he was a better artist than me. But I took the test and got in. I took comic book art classes there with teachers like Myron Straus, who was a comic book artist in the early ‘40s, and a couple other teachers there. DF: Who were your classmates? JP: The only one that I know that was in my class and made it in the business was Mark Texeira. He had a lot to do with how I got into comics later. When I was in 12th grade, there was a guy named Chic Stone who was an inker in Queens looking to get some background help doing Invaders over Frank Robbins’ pencils. Chic gave me a page to do and I screwed it up because I made it too photographic. So I lost the job with Chic. Around the same time, there were a bunch of guys from the East Side who needed help doing books they were inking, stuff like Howard the Duck magazine, Time Warp for DC, war stories and whole bunch of super-hero stuff. So in 12th grade I helped those guys. It was a good and a bad experience. It was good because I got to work on actual books and I got to work over Gene Colan at one point. The bad part was they screwed me out of money and I lost a whole book of original art I wrote and drew. These were guys working in the field in 1979, and they were living in the slums. I figured that if that was what I had to look forward to, I don’t think comics is for me. When I went to college, I took advertising art and design. I went to New York Tech downtown. It was just for advertising. It was a two-year program. Then I went to the Art Students League ten years

after that. I didn’t get back into comics until the late ‘80s. I was helping a friend of a friend with this company called Eternity Comics. It was Bryan Marshall and Evan Dorkin and all these guys doing comic books in Brooklyn. DF: Was that par t of the black-and-white boom in the ‘80s? JP: Yes, it was definitely the peak of the black-and-white boom. We were putting out some of the worst crap you ever saw. I did a thing called Ninja and ExMutants or New Humans or something. Ron Lim was one of the pencilers. That was a hobby, because I wasn’t making any money. I was making money in my nine-to-five job doing photo illustration and photo retouching and design work. I did movie posters. What guys do with Photoshop now, I used to do by hand with an airbrush and dyes. I was doing very well and eventually became a partner in the company. But it wasn’t what I wanted to do. I started reading comics again between girlfriends, and then I ran into Mark Texeira. He was doing a signing. A friend went to the signing at a store in Staten Island and mentioned me. Tex remembered me, and he and I got together. He showed me what he was doing. He had starting inking his brother-in-law, Javier Salteres, on Ghost Rider. DF: Tex and I worked on one of the New Universe books, PsiForce. JP: I remember that one! Tex was doing Ghost Rider and Punisher War Journal at the time. He was inking both at the same time. He was penciling and inking War Journal and inking Ghost Rider and he really needed help, so he asked me and I accepted. He’s one of the sweetest, most talented friends I have. He needed some background help, so I started coming up to Marvel and only helped him when he was there because I wanted to get in the door. I would go up and I would bring samples every week for editors to look at. My first gig was this thing called Nightcat. It was 48 pages of Denys Cowan breakdowns that had to be done in a month. DF: It had a nice Jusko cover. JP: Yeah, Joe Jusko is one of the finest talents in the biz, and till this day, another of my closest friends. Joe painted that cover using Jim Lee’s character design. There’s a page in there that has Jim’s design of the costume. When I was done with the book, Don Daley liked what he saw and gave me some work. I was always looking for work because the inking gig was a real quick and easy one, but unlike other guys up there at the time, I learned from advertising not to hang around the office. That worked against you. I was like “here’s my work and if you have anything please give me a call.” In and out and professional. Showing my face up there helped my career, but now it’s a whole different world. DF: But the face is still lovely. JP: You can’t just stop in these days. It used to be, a freelancer could come in and walk from editor’s office to editor’s office, looking for an assignment. Now you can’t get in unless you have an appointment. DF: Since 9/11? Or since that guy came up to the office and punched an executive over layoffs? JP: That guy probably had it coming to him. But now it’s very businesslike, especially at Marvel. Marvel’s bullpen used to be this big free-for-all with Steve Bunche and all these guys working and clowning around. Halloween was a big treat up there. There were a lot of office parties. It’s not like that up there anymore. DF: Is it a money issue or a paranoia issue? JP: I think it’s paranoia. Both Marvel and DC have this more PALMIOTTI | 59

business-type atmosphere now. I think Marvel more than DC, to be honest, because they went through so many firings that the people that are there now, other than one or two, seem to feel like their time is limited and they’re being watched every second. DF: Mar vel went through these unbelievable boom years that were followed by these bust years, and a lot of what went on in the offices had really nothing to do with comics sales figures. JP: Both companies went through so many changes so quickly, that if it wasn’t for their stables of characters, they may not still be publishing. The stables of characters are strong. Both houses have these great characters that are icons. But when the companies made tons of money, they didn’t put it back into the company. They looked for more and more ways to take the money out of people’s pockets—the shiny covers, the six covers. A lot of gimmicks and junk books were thrown out there. DF: A lot of that is documented in the Dan Raviv book, Comic Wars. JP: Which Amanda [Conner] did the cover for. DF: That’s right. I feel like such an idiot because I reviewed it [for awn.com] and didn’t even mention that. JP: Actually, the cover was done for the New York Times and then she altered it for the book cover. Anyway, things changed at the companies and they don’t have much of the old happygo-lucky attitude. Certain people still try to keep the fun spirit 60 | WRITE NOW

alive, but it gets harder all the time. DF: So you got into the business as an inker and you got yourself known. The stor y that stands out in my memor y is from when you put the first issue of Ash out. I want to talk to you about that. I remember you had this long list of people you thanked in the back of the comic and my name was there. I thought “I never did anything in par ticular for Jimmy or Joe, so why did they thank me?” I think I had given you maybe one job to ink. But I realized thanking all those people was a smar t move. JP: Actually, you hired me a couple of times when you didn’t have to. You had a stable of regular guys, so when you hired me you went outside your stable. For me, that shows an editor who has more of a brain than the guy who uses the same people over and over and becomes passive with his books. You took a chance with me. It wasn’t just that one job that you’re thinking about. You hired me for other things. DF: You were a dependable guy and you were good. JP: Again, as an editor—and I’ve been in the position—you have the steady guys who you hire, but once in a while you want to try something new and add some flavor, a little spice and you try something else. I thanked everybody who got me to that place. DF: I’m sure that, just given the way humans are, I’m sure that if you searched your memory I probably also did something not so nice to you. There are people who would have focused on that. I read plenty of stuff where some real or imagined slight is made a big deal of. I think that was really smart, that you put anybody that you had worked with, in the “thanks to” page. But let’s get back on track a little. You were inking and you parlayed that into so much more. Today, the inking is now... JP: It’s secondary to my writing now. DF: Did you ever want to be a penciler? JP: All the samples I ever brought in were penciling samples. DF: That you inked yourself, or just pencils? JP: Just pencils. My style is close to Bill Sienkiewicz’s, but this was a time when Bill was working in the industry, and they didn’t need another Bill. I was showing my stuff and every editor was saying it was too photo-realistic. DF: So you’re talking about early Sienkiewicz. JP: Yeah. My work was too over-rendered. If I popped into the scene now, with my pencils, I’d probably get work. But back then they were looking for John Buscema style. His work blows me away, but they were looking for very traditional pencilers. Even Jim Lee and all those guys were still very traditional, and my stuff wasn’t. I would shoot pictures and would research my ass off. DF: Research? You should be shot! JP: That’s what got me in trouble with Chic Stone. He needed a train yard. So I went down to Coney Island and I drew the train yard. He was like, “What the hell is this, a photo?” I guess he wanted boxes with wheels. Looking back he was right. A photoreal style wouldn’t fit the rest of the book. I could see I wasn’t going to get pencil work. But I knew how to ink because I did it in high school. When I helped Tex, he would show me a lot of things to do. I picked the brains of people around me whose work I liked. Marvel used to have guys come up for the day and ink. I would stand over people’s shoulders and look at what they were doing. The guys that I studied were all established guys. Jack Abel, Tom Palmer, Klaus Janson and Al Williamson. That’s how I thought you had to ink, and I still ink that way. I still use brush for 98% of the work that I do because, although

did together was X-O Man-O-War #0 years later. Everyone it’s nice to see quirky different styles, that’s the way it was thinks Joe and I worked together forever, but he worked with done, and I started getting inking work. Like most creators, Kevin Nowlan on Azrael and The Ray was with Art Nichols. I though, when you work in this field in one area, you start didn’t work with Joe until X-O #0 and we did the three issues wanting to do other things. of Ninjak and then we started Event Comics. I didn’t have this DF: So you realized you weren’t going to be getting penciling big backlog with Joe. work. DF: And neither of you had writing experience? JP: I did a couple of pencil gigs for Terry Kavanagh. He gave JP: Neither of us did. We were both frustrated creators. me stories to pencil for a couple of issues of Marvel Comics Frustrated by the story sucking, the printing sucking, the Presents [a bi-weekly anthology title] and I did a Namor issue coloring all wrong, the lettering not right, my editor is on drugs for Terry that Bob Harras wrote. I also drew two Madonna [laughter] and that kind of thing. I always thought, since I comics, Vampirella #0 for Harris Comics, and Genesis #0 for came from an advertising background, that the production Eternity. I did a lot of #0 books. I penciled five or six books could be better, that the comics should be treated a little differtotal, but when I would do it, it would really kill me. It was a lot ently production-wise. I understand now that things have to be of hard work because I would worry about it. I was working with knocked out quickly, but back then, we had made a lot of Joe Quesada, Paul Chadwick, and so many good artists at the money on X-O and Ninjak and decided that we’d put our money time. There were guys working like Mike Mignola, Jim Lee, and were our mouth is. Jae Lee. So, when I started penciling, I thought, “These guys DF: Was the creator-owned Image line an influence? are so much better, what am I doing?” I would bring the work in JP: It was an inspiration. Jim [Lee], Todd [McFarlane] and all and run away from it as soon as I dropped it off because I those guys were self-publishing. We were seeing them get filthy didn’t want anyone to see I was embarrassed. rich and doing whatever they wanted. And we were thinking that DF: And it took you a long time to pencil, right? we should give it a try. We were doing a comics show in, I JP: It wasn’t so much that the technical end took me a long think, Chicago, and I literally came out of the shower and said, time. I was just never happy with anything that I drew, and I’m “Fireman-super-hero.” Joe came up with a visual and my still not. When I look at my old books, I want to puke. A lot of brother, Peter, named the character “Ash.” Pete said, “Name it artists are like that. Amanda always tells me that if I just drew Ash,” and the three-letter name was the best. We hired Laurie a book every month that I would be blowing these guys away. Braddock, who was Joe’s art agent, to be our editor, and we But why bother? I like writing the stories and the fun of inking decided to give it a try. It did well for a while. Laurie’s husband to me is that it’s so second nature and Zen-like for me. I don’t was Kim “Howard” Johnson and he was helping us as well. care how busy the page is, I look at it and I see it done [in my Laurie and Howard were really nice folks. mind] and I nail it. It’s relaxing to me. DF: Did they have any comics experience? DF: How did the writing par t of your career come about? JP: I had comic experience and they had worked with a retailer, JP: The writing happened when I was working with [former Gary Carabono. Gary was running the Chicago Comicon back Punisher editor] Don Daley. I would say to Don: “This would be then. He consulted with all of us how to get the books out a good Punisher story,” just like any other comic guy does. there, and then we had to do everything from the ground up. When Joe [Quesada] and I were doing some books at Valiant We had to take meetings with Diamond Distribution, the and we were making a lot of money off their X-O #0 and Ninjak printers and all the press like Wizard, CBG and at the time book, we took the money and decided to self-publish, which is Combo and Fan. From there, once we had things going, we something I’d always wanted to do. worked, set up booth’s at cons, and did our thing. DF: When did you first hook up with Joe? DF: You have a natural flair for schmoozing and networking. I JP: It was a Comicon in San Diego. [Inker] Rodney Ramos introduced us and I later met up with Joe in New York. He was doing coloring, and then he got penciling work with DC doing some kind of game books, I am not sure what it was. DF: He wasn’t a school buddy of yours? JP: No. Brian Marshall, Mark Texeira, and Evan Dorkin, I’ve known for years. At the time, I was designing covers for Don Daley in the Punisher and ’Nam office. They paid guys 50 bucks each, so I was doing cover sketches for a lot of his books because of my movie poster background. Dan asked me if I knew some pencilers, so I got Joe a couple of gigs penciling the covers I had sketched. The first book we Another Palmiotti penciling (and inking) job. This one from the Ghost Rider tale “D’Spryte Times, D’Spryte Measures: Fallen Spirits” in Marvel Comics Presents #99. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] PALMIOTTI | 61

assume that helped make Event possible. JP: I treat everybody the same. You’re never going to catch me acting differently than I do. I’m pretty consistent. When Joe and I came up with the idea of self-publishing, we talked to a lot of people and got advice. It was a risk but it wasn’t a risk. We put up a hundred grand to back up the company, so if everything fell apart, that’s what we would have lost—fifty grand each. We decided to try it while we were still working for other people because we had to keep the checks coming in. DF: Did that become a problem? Did any of the companies you were freelancing for see you as a competitor? JP: Never. It never became a problem. Most of the guys at the other companies thought that the book was okay, and it’s Jimmy and Joe’s thing, and it’s goofy. On the other hand, we were getting a lot of attention from self-publishing, while still working for the other companies, so we were actually selling more books for them because we were popular. It was a nolose situation for the big two. It was important to keep our relationships with the other companies. Joe was still doing Batman covers and designs on Azrael, and I was inking three different titles for Marvel while we were doing Ash. We both knew that it could fall apart at any minute, so we kept our work going. We did Wizard covers, which always helped. Gareb Shamus and Fred Pierce [of Wizard] have always been supportive of us. Fred was a big cheese at Valiant when we worked there, so we had a good relationship. DF: Wizard is ver y influential in the business. It still sells more copies than the best selling comic. Your connection to Wizard is through Fred? JP: To tell you the truth, I’ve always been personal friends with Gareb. I met him through Wizard and we just hit off pretty well. We are social outside the job. He really is a smart and fun guy to hang out with. When we decided to launch Event, we looked to Wizard for help to promote us. At the time, we were easily promotable because we were doing covers for them and any other promo stuff they needed. We would go to comic book conventions as their special guests, and one hand washed the other, much like it’s done now in the business. We couldn’t have launched Event without having these relationships in place. DF: The point I’m trying to bring out is that being talented and being dependable is only half the battle, especially these days, when the pie is so much smaller. To go out and do as much as you can to network is not a sin— it’s part of the business. JP: The hardest thing in this business is to stay fresh all the time and The cover to Ash: Fire & Crossfire #2 not to be looked at as by Quesada & Palmiotti. [©2003 Quesada & Palmiotti.] 62 | WRITE NOW

an “old-timer.” It’s so easy to fall into that spot unless you have a very distinctive voice and have something to say. Not everybody is built for that. Some of the best artists are some of the quietest guys. I can name a bunch, and they will all argue with me later, but a lot of guys know how to do one thing or two things right and never grow beyond that. I come from an advertising background where I had to deal with people all the time. I have never been a person that stays still for too long. DF: Did you write any ad copy when you were in that business? JP: No. That was somebody else’s job. There was a point, though, where I was working at the drawing board and the bosses running my company would send me out to see the clients instead of going themselves, because the clients liked me. Or I would take clients out for a drink, because I schmoozed a little better or if they were younger clients and they wanted to see a younger face. When they would send me they would get Energy Boy who was coming in and was eager and they liked that, because they were used to the same old guys and they needed a fresh face. But back to self-publishing, it’s harder now, I think. You can’t just say, “I’m going to do my own comic,” anymore. It’s tougher now than ever, especially considering the way the catalogs are set up. Back then, you had Capital and Diamond as well as smaller distributors. DF: It’s funny, because to actually publish a comic is not that expensive. For ten to twenty thousand dollars you can print a decent press run of a black-and-white book. But to get them onto the racks, that’s the hard par t. JP: Diamond is the only game in town now. There are smaller distributors but 99.9% of your orders are going to come from Diamond. You can get into their catalogue, but the way the companies have it set up in the catalogue, DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Wizard are up front. DF: Did CrossGen make the cut? JP: CrossGen is still in the back last I checked. So you have the front of the catalogue, where your retailer orders 99% of his books from. Again, they order a limited supply because they only make so much in the store, so they have to be careful on what they order. Unfortunately, how they order and how they are allowed to order has a lot to do with how well their store does. You have the independent publishers in the back of the Diamond catalogue. CrossGen is still looked at as an independent, but to me, personally, they have been publishing enough stuff, solidly, that they should be in the front now. That’s just a personal opinion. Then you have Harris Comics with Vampirella, to Oni Press and Top Shelf and all these guys in the back of the book. Where you are in the catalogue has nothing to do with quality and has everything to do with money. When you are a small guy coming out with your monthly or bimonthly book, unless you are calling yourself AAAAA Comics, you’re not going to be in the front of the catalog. The further back in the catalogue you go, the retailers have less and less money to spend. I hate to say it, but they only have a certain amount of time to fill out the orders as well as money to spend. it’s hard for them to keep track of every book that comes out, because there are so many. You can have a perfectly great book, but if it winds up in the back of the catalogue and only gets 800 orders, then you’re in trouble. With Event, it wasn’t so set, because Diamond gave us more attention because of our names, and there was Capital Distributors as well looking after us. we got into some really good spots in both their catalogues. But we also had to go down and make the trips to Diamond and retail stores and

such. We planned the launch well because we were coming off some hot titles at the time, so we knew we would get ordered well. DF: At that same time, I really needed some high profile creators at Vir tual Comics when I was star ting it for Byron Preiss, and you came in and inked a book for me. Which was great, because you didn’t have to do it. You had plenty of things going on. JP: I tend to stick to the people I know in the business and I thought what you were doing with Virtual Comics was way ahead of its time, and now we know that it was. I like to take a risk with my career rather than going, “It’s great to be popular and have money.” DF: And we did match Mar vel’s rates—which may be one reason Vir tual is out of business now. JP: Even if you weren’t matching it, it would have been the game that I was working for. I just like to take a risk and do something different and challenging. With Event, it was a total challenge, because now we had to put our money where our mouths were. Joe and I had to write it, and it was either going to be killed, or we were going to be great. We didn’t know where it was going to go, but it was infinitely more exciting than doing the same thing over and over. How many times can you do an X-Men book? It’s the same thing over and over. There’s nothing wrong with it, but I’d done it a million times already, so I wanted something different and so did Joe. Joe wanted to strike out on his own, and we were both in the right place at the right time, and with his talent and my talent together, we thought we could make a really good go with it. Basically we saw Jim and Rob and Todd and all these guys at Image and elsewhere doing their own thing and we said, “Let’s give it a try, because nobody is going to offer us anything like that.” We thought about maybe doing something for Image, but we decided that we were going to be the East Coast Image. DF: Had you or Joe ever sat down and written a stor y before Ash? JP: No, Ash was the first thing that we did. Before we began writing it, we talked it out. DF: He tells the whole stor y in his inter view [in DFWN #1]. Is that accurate? JP: Yes. Howard Chaykin [who will be inter viewed nex t issue. —DF] gave us some advice. He said it might be good to put our story points on index cards and then to shuffle them to see what order we want to tell the story in. Basically, we wrote out on the cards what was important to get done in the first issue. Looking back at the comics, they are not great comics, but they have an energy about them. DF: They have a lot of energy, but, honestly, I couldn’t follow the stor y to save my life. JP: That’s because the story was all over the place, because our ideas were all over the place. DF: Did you have an editor? JP: Laurie edited us, but we were paying her, so if we didn’t like what she suggested, we would tell her to be quiet, and that’s the way it would go. We were stupid. DF: Did she have editorial ex perience? JP: Yes, she did have some book editorial experience. She’s a very talented person. She put out cookbooks and she still does stuff. Both she and Howard are very talented people. The books got a little better as they went along. When we couldn’t keep up with the schedule of putting the books out, we hired writers like Brian Augustyn and Mark Waid to do some of the

other Ash books for us, and to do Painkiller Jane. 22 Brides was written by Fabian Nicieza [inter viewed in this ver y issue! Who don’t we have?—DF], and we had friends do some of the books. DF: Didn’t Rick Parker do a book for you? JP: Rick Parker and Amanda did Kid Death and Fluffy. That is a funny book. These were all friends of ours we thought it would be fun to work with. There was a lot of excitement in comics at that time. You had Billy Tucci coming out with Shi from out of left field. He had been pitching it around and nobody hired him, so he put it out himself. There was Jeff Smith’s Bone and there was a whole wave of guys putting out stuff themselves. Mignola’s Hellboy started then. DF: I would imagine a lot of that stuff came about the way Image did. A lot of people making tons of royalty money because the mainstream comics were doing so well, so there was money around for people to star t other ventures. JP: In Billy’s case, he took money from credit cards, so he was like Kevin Smith, who did that to finance his early movies, in a way. With Ash we hit on something that wasn’t done. A fireman super-hero, as silly and obvious as it sounds, it wasn’t obvious then. DF: There had been cop super-heroes. JP: There was a fireman story told in Showcase #1, but it wasn’t a super-hero book. So we hit on something that was PALMIOTTI | 63

unusual. Painkiller Jane was another one. Painkiller Jane was more my taste, because I like tough chick books, and to this day I’m still doing them. DF: Who drew Painkiller Jane? JP: Rick Leonardi did the series [I inked Rick on Ghost Rider for Marvel Comics Presents] and Amanda Conner and I did the #0 book. Both Rick and Amanda did some of their best work on that character. Garth Ennis wrote Painkiller Jane/Darkness with Amanda as well. We knew, as Event went along, that we would need other guys to do stuff. Joe’s never been the quickest guy in the world, but the quality of the work is beautiful. Joe really is a talented bastard. The comic community is used to monthlies and they need a monthly fix, but when you draw like Joe you can’t do it quickly. Every page is a separate piece of work. Unfortunately, the community wants it now, now, now and once a month. DF: So you were really, in essence, writer/editors on the Event books? JP: Yeah. But just because you write it doesn’t mean you are a writer. Ash is a good example of that. As Howard Chaykin once said, “It’s crap.” When we asked him to write the intro to Painkiller Jane vs. Darkness #1. Written by Garth Ennis with art by Amanda Conner and Palmiotti. the trade paperback collection of Ash, he wrote [©2003 Quesada & Palmiotti and Top Cow Productions Inc.] something like, “Joe and Jimmy are nice guys, Coast. [laughter] Lately, it’s been very good. but this book is crap.” DF: How did that come about? DF: Did you use that introduction? JP: Event was having some hard times because Laurie moved JP: No, we should have. [laughter] James Robinson wrote us a on and the books were coming out less and less regularly and very nice introduction. the sales weren’t where we wanted. We were losing a little DF: I’ll have to ask Howard about that if I ever inter view him. steam and taking on other gigs. It became a lot of work for us [Oops. Forgot to. —DF] and all of a sudden we were taking the time to do toys and JP: It’s totally Howard and you wouldn’t want anything else from other licenses, and every time you do one thing, it takes away Howard anyway. I still, to this day, think he’s brilliant. from another. DF: And you cer tainly know he’s not bullsh*tting you. DF: I think that happens to other folks as well, which is why JP: Howard speaks the truth and I respect him for that. But at Erik Larsen is so laser-focused on just doing the Savage the same time, that’s not the intro you want to put in your Dragon book. book, or the one that your mom and dad want to read. It’s all JP: It’s also like Todd McFarlane, who became a multiabout making your parents happy. millionaire businessman and decided which aspect of his DF: You could put that as a pull quote on the back of the career was the better moneymaker. book. People would be so intrigued. DF: Maybe that’s why Todd hasn’t done much actual drawing JP: When we did The Pro, we used Jim Steranko’s quote, “by for a while. the terrorists of comics.” [laughter] JP: I don’t agree with everything that Todd does, but those toys DF: So, back to the development of your career. You’re are great. writing the Event stuff with Joe, inking for DC and Mar vel... DF: And for that three million dollars he paid for those JP: DC, Marvel, Image, Crusade, Dark Horse... I was inking for baseballs, he got twice that in publicity. everybody. JP: You couldn’t buy that, and he still has his balls to play with, DF: And Joe is at his drawing board doing however many which is important. [laughter] He gets total strangers to play pages of Ash. with his balls. How many people can do that and still go home JP: Joe was doing Ash and also, to be fair, he was doing to their wives? Wizard covers and he was doing a lot of covers for different DF: That’s why he’s a genius. [laughter] books which kept his name out there. It was a good move. He JP: So back to Marvel Knights. Joe Calamari is friends with is one of the best cover guys, really good layouts and real Gareb Shamus who is friends with me and Joe. In the five smart. minutes that Calamari was President of Marvel, he got this DF: Joe and you are still at this point ar tist an inker, with the crazy idea—besides his idea of making the biggest pizza pie on Event writing. How did you go from that to Mar vel Knights Earth. Yeah, he was going to make the biggest pizza pie on and from Mar vels Knights to now, where you are a TV and Earth in front of the Chicago comic-con for the X-Men movie guy who dabbles in comics? anniversary. It was in Chicago, so it had to be deep dish. JP: That’s what I want them to think out there on the West 64 | WRITE NOW

Anyway, Joe Calamari had the idea that the Heroes Reborn thing worked out pretty well for them but it cost Marvel a fortune. They wanted to figure out how they could do something like that, but not have it cost them so much. Gareb recommended me and Joe because we could give different takes on the characters and we knew enough people with our good relationships with creators to pull in what Marvel hadn’t been able to get, or hadn’t thought to even think of that way. Calamari approached us, and we took the job, basically, to make some money for Event. We took it to make a change at Marvel and to try something new, and at the same time put the money into Event to put out some more of our own books. DF: So you were being hired to do a packaging deal for Mar vel as Event, under the label of Mar vel Knights, taking characters that were weak in sales or cancelled? JP: Right. And to try to give them a spin, to get different takes on them that were totally different from what Marvel was doing at the time. Part of the gig was that we’d have space at Marvel if we ever wanted to use it. It was never part of the contract that we had to be up there, but we were up there a couple of days a week. The four titles we finally got, after arguing back and forth, were Punisher, Inhumans, Black Panther and Daredevil. We had to have Daredevil, that was going to be our book with a new comic writer. We did some work with Kevin Smith and we thought that would be a cool thing to do with the launch. DF: This is the thing that I find amazing about these interviews, when someone says something amazing as if it happens every day. You just threw that away: “We did some work with Kevin Smith.” How do you meet a Kevin Smith and how are you suddenly doing work for him? How does one do that? JP: You have to remember that guys like Kevin and [director] John Singleton and a few others are comic book fans. They read the comics and see the names of the guys whose work they like. In Kevin’s case, there was a guy, Kevin Fitzpatrick, who introduced us to Kevin Smith. Kevin’s company was doing a Mallrats card set. Kevin made up a list of the guys he wanted to use on it. To Kevin, when meeting comic book guys, he was getting his geek on. We met him and all went well. when he was shooting Chasing Amy, he asked us “If you guys can do me a favor and bring the Event booth, we’re doing a fake convention scene.” We had a booth that we would bring around, and we brought it to New Jersey for two days, and they shot it for Chasing Amy. Kevin got a good deal because we did it for free, and Joe and I got in the movie for about three seconds. It was fun, but not something I would ever want to do again. I have no desire to be in front of the camera and you can print that a hundred times. I have every desire to be behind the scenes. DF: You don’t want to deliver any pizzas? [Joe Quesada delivered a pizza for a… generous tip in Kevin’s Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. —DF] JP: Nah, it’s not my thing. I feel there are guys who go to school for that and wait their entire lives for that kind of moment/chance and if I step in and do it, well, I think it’s a vanity thing really. I want attention for my work, not for who I know. We’d see Kevin at various places, and eventually he was someone that we knew. So, when the Marvel Knights thing came up, we asked him to work with us. Before that, we were going to have Kevin write some Ash. We talked to him about that because he wanted to write comics. But the Daredevil thing happened, and he said “okay” to it. Inhumans became a

Marvel Knights title, and we liked what Paul Jenkins was doing on Hellblazer. Nobody at Marvel had ever used him. Then we took Jae Lee, who we knew forever, and put him together with Paul on that book. DF: Was there an editorial philosophy? JP: Yeah, “Get our friends work.” Kidding, well, somewhat kidding. The real philosophy was, “Don’t worry about how it was done in the past. Be loyal to the past, but be aggressive and try something different.” The biggest secret was that we were going to color these books better than they had ever been colored. The coloring was everything for these books. DF: What made you call them Mar vel Knights? JP: Joe came up with that name. We needed another Marvel tag. We had all these different names but “Knights” was the one that we liked. DF: It’s a great name, but it doesn’t fit the Inhumans. JP: No, but they were telling us that they had to charge more for our books because they cost more to make since we were spending more money on the colorists. To me, and it may sound funny coming from me, but this is how the talent pool goes: Writer, first and most important. Second is penciler. Third thing is colorist, and then inker and then letterer. Colorist is more important than inker because if it’s colored brilliantly it will look brilliant. The inking is less crucial. DF: Color separating is impor tant, too. JP: We got the best guys in the industry doing it. We had Avalon and Isanove. The books looked different than the regular Marvel books. You wanted to hold on to them longer. You didn’t want to throw them in the rest of the pile. You put them aside. We wanted to create the feeling that they were special books. We set the standard for how all Marvel comics should be—writing, art, coloring. The whole line, now, is reflective of what Knights was. DF: With Knights, you were writer/editors? JP: Not writers, just editors and packagers. We were designing some of the covers, we controlled how the ads were looking and how the press releases were going to be. DF: So you guys didn’t write any of the Mar vel Knights books? JP: Nope. DF: Were you still writing Ash at that point? JP: No, we were done with Ash. DF: Were you writing anything? JP: No. As a matter of fact, at the end of Marvel Knights, I was co-writing, with Mark Waid and Amanda, Gatecrasher for Black Bull, but that was a separate thing. DF: I bet the average fan thinks Jimmy and Joe were writing at least some of those Mar vel Knights books. JP: Well, I think the only issue we wrote was Daredevil #12 because it was a fill-in issue. Everything, no matter who wrote it, had to be okayed by us, then Bob Harras [then Marvel editor in chief] and last, Chris Claremont [then an editorial executive]. So Chris would go over everything and finally say okay. Bob was really helpful for us during Knights. We couldn’t have done it without Bob Harras. Again, two good relationships I have still. DF: As I was researching for this inter view, I was reading another inter view where you said something similar. That speaks really well of Bob, that he wasn’t threatened by you guys. JP: Bob was supportive. I think there were other editors who were not happy with us being hired, because they thought we would work against editorial. They thought we would steal artists from other Marvel editors’ offices. But our relationships PALMIOTTI | 65

became very good with other editorial teams because it helped the line as a whole. And our relationship with DC was great as well. We wouldn’t take their guys unless they were off contract. Garth Ennis, we waited a couple years for. We had Chris Golden and Tom Sniegowski doing Punisher until then with Bernie Wrightson. Chris and Tom are very talented guys and I had worked with them both on Vampirella. They were friends of ours. But we were waiting for Garth, because we knew Garth would be the perfect Punisher guy. DC had a contract with him, and we respected the contract. We didn’t take anyone from DC without them knowing it. We were always very upfront, so our relationship with DC was very good, to the point that, while doing Knights, we did an Ash/Azrael book with DC. DF: How did Mar vel feel about that? JP: We were packaging for them, not exclusive, so we could work anywhere. They didn’t care as long as we got our books in. We just couldn’t package books for other companies. But I could ink and Joe could draw and I could even write stuff. It didn’t matter as long as we didn’t package it. DF: And did things change once Calamari was out of the picture? JP: There were a couple other guys in then, and everything went fine. I lasted there two-and-a-half years. After I split, Joe was there another six months, and then the Editor-in-Chief job

came up. DF: So you left Mar vel Knights before Joe became Editor-inChief? JP: They were looking around for an Editor-in-Chief. DF: Was Joe one of the candidates? JP: I’m sure he was. When I left, I realized my initial intention was to get the Event characters into the Marvel Universe to do crossovers and so on. After two years packaging the Knights books, we had only done one crossover with Event, so it wasn’t going the way it should. Joe and I had different agendas about what our job was. We are two totally different people and my life was changing and I needed to make a name on my own. DF: It sounds like your agenda was, “We have these Event characters, let’s get them publicized.” JP: Well, yeah. It would have been nice to incorporate them into the Marvel Universe and still own them, this way, when we retired the Knights gig, our characters are more popular and we can self-publish big-time. With partnerships, everyone has a different agenda. Joe wanted to stick with Knights, and I understand. What was important to me became completely different from what was important to Joe. So we decided that it was time to split up. But I stayed on as inker on Punisher for a good year or two after that. I kept involved with the Knights and we kept it good. Joe got the Editor-in-Chief under Bill Jemas. You have to remember that Bill came in while I was still working there. I knew Bill from Topps Trading Cards and he had worked with a number of my good friends up there. Bill was a quick learner, picking both of our brains and was quickly getting the company in order. Again, the Knights job was limited for me. From a freelancer’s point of view, it was good money. It was fun to change the face of comics. Not trying to sound bold or arrogant, I think we changed the face of Marvel Comics. I also understood that there was only so far that we could take it. These were characters that had already been around. We didn’t create any of those characters. The minute I left there, my bank account reflected it. We didn’t own a thing. They were other people’s toys and I was done and I needed to create some more stuff. I needed to write, and why would I write for anyone where I can’t own a piece? DF: There are reasons, but for you those reasons obviously weren’t compelling enough. JP: Having no percentage of a character isn’t a good gig. DF: In the boom era, the Image guys got rich off of tiny percentages of characters or comics they didn’t own and were able to star t their own company JP: You’re talking money now. My thing is that ownership goes beyond money. It’s control and having my name on it as creator. I created Beautiful Killer with Phil Noto. It’s something that I can be proud of forever. Daredevil with Kevin Smith was a fun gig, but Frank Miller’s Daredevil is still great, as well as Stan’s and Gene Colan’s and so on. We didn’t create anything new there. DF: I’m sure that 90% of non-comics industr y people reading about Stan Lee’s suit against Mar vel are shocked that Stan doesn’t own Spider-Man. JP: My feeling on that is, if Marvel has a contract with Stan that says they’d give him a percentage of whatever, they should hold to it. That’s common sense. Stan is a whole different animal, though. He’s Stan. DF: There are people who become identified with a character, then are removed from it. That’s par t of the hear tbreak of the industr y.

JP: I didn’t see it. JP: Like Marv Wolfman with DF: Supposedly, they star ted Blade. out with the first eight DF: When there is a par ting of episodes being tightly plotted, the ways, the owner of the and then they pulled ever yproper ty gets the proper ty. thing else out of thin air, and JP: You know that going in and you can tell. understand that going in. But at JP: X-Files is a classic example the same time, when you of not knowing where it’s devote a large part of your life ending up. to it, you start to feel otherwise. DF: My obsession is that You look at the first X-Men ever y TV or comics series that movie, and think: “Why isn’t is successful has a beginningChris Claremont’s name middle-end structure. anywhere on that film?” I think Something like X-Files was that it’s embarrassing for the often working on the company not to get the guy chemistr y between David some credit. He did create a Duchovny and Gillian couple of those characters. Anderson. That the continuity DF: And a lot of the ones he was confusing even if you’d didn’t create, he popularized. seen ever y episode was less He took what was a dying impor tant than that chemistr y. series... JP: Once it lost what the show JP: Give the guy a nod. was about, it was horrible. The DF: Give him a nod because it last two seasons were embarwas something that was rassing. They should have just written off. killed it. I do like writing with JP: He did create some of somebody else, but I also write those characters, and Len Wein alone. I wrote Beautiful Killer did, also. I learned with Event by myself, as well as some and Marvel Knights and everyDeadpools and an X-Men story. thing else that I’m doing that And I have some other things it’s not about the money. It’s that I’m doing solo. But with about more control. I’m on this Justin Gray, my writing partner planet for a certain number of on 21 Down and The years, and I don’t want to be A Rogue & Wolverine story written & inked by Jimmy and penciled by Resistance, we sound out the next guy keeping the flame Amanda Conner from X-Men Unlimited #35. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] ideas and bounce them off for a character. I’d rather work each other. Not all partnerships on ten books of my own that are good with writing, because sometimes you give in to completely fail than to have one that’s a huge hit that someone someone else and don’t get what you want. else created. DF: I’ve been working with different people occasionally, and DF: This is a big leap from the 15-year-old whose teacher the chemistr y between the writers is really impor tant. signed him up for the High School of Ar t and Design test. So, JP: I’ve been lucky with Justin, chemistry-wise. you’re a packager at Mar vel Knights and Gatecrasher was DF: Where does he come from professionally? happening? JP: His resumé is huge. I met him because he was an intern at JP: Gatecrasher was something Gareb Shamus of Wizard Marvel Knights. He was a guy who was pitching Joe and I ideas approached us about. He said he wanted to publish comics, every week. He’s an aggressive bastard. He’s talented and he’s and do I want to do this with Mark Waid, and hook Amanda into a research nut. That’s what I love about him. We both try to it, too. I get to write with Mark Waid. I get to sit with Mark and challenge each other, and with our end product we find a happy bounce ideas back and forth and create something like I did medium. We argue and we do everything we have to do. Books with Joe with Event and I finally get a chance to show the world like 21 Down and The Resistance are nothing alike, yet there how creative a genius Amanda is. is something in them where you know it’s these guys because DF: At that point, were you still more comfor table writing as it has a sort of beat to it. We have a good beat with each other par t of a team? and, like with good music, we play together in a band pretty JP: I do like bouncing ideas back and forth with someone. It well. makes me challenge myself more. As a writer, I tend to make it DF: That’s what Simon and Kirby did, from war stories to so that it’s almost impossible for me to get out of what I set cowboy stories. up. You have to have an ending right away, and as you write, JP: It’s all classics. You know it’s them right away. There’s a you tend to throw yourself a monkey wrench. The last issue of certain movement to it. Getting back to Black Bull, it was an a story arc is always the hardest issue for me to write. I think opportunity for me to work with Waid and Amanda. We didn’t it makes for a more interesting read. use Amanda for Marvel Knights. We used her for one or two DF: That was the problem with the first season of the series pages of something, but she wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea, that 24, a show that I think is terrific, by the way. PALMIOTTI | 67

was because people there didn’t understand her work. DF: Waid was your first writing par tner after Joe? JP: Yes, and a very good experience, because Mark has no ego. It’s very surprising when you work with Mark. If you have a good idea, he’ll say it’s a great idea. He’s the kind of guy you want to write with, because he doesn’t have the ego that makes him say if it’s not his idea it can’t be any good. And when he has a brilliant idea, he always looks for what’s wrong with it. That’s why he’s a guy who gets better all the time. DF: If he says to you that he doesn’t like an idea, then you know you should consider what he says. He’s not just giving you a hard time. JP: I still think he is the best super-hero writer that we have in the business. He knows how to tell a great super-hero story and, working with him, he’s a very generous guy. Very opinionated, but very generous and very encouraging. He’s not belittling. It comes through in his writing. He’s just a really wonderfully talented guy. I can’t say enough good things about him. He’s an artist whose judgement I trust 100%. He’s outspoken and will be the first one to pick a fight with somebody about something he’s working on. That’s his passion for what he does. I wish he still lived in Brooklyn. DF: So the Black Bull stuff you did—is that owned by Wizard? JP: Yeah, but the creators own a piece of it. DF: I have the Jimmy Palmiotti current projects list, and there are 12 here and I’m sure they left some off. There’re also your past projects and your awards, but you didn’t put The Skul on the list. JP: I’m missing a ton. DF: I know but that’s the one I noticed, They Call Me... The Skul [The 1996 Virtual Comics series that I wrote, Ron Lim penciled and Jimmy inked. —DF] Is this list on your web site? This is pretty impressive. Not only is it a long list, but there are credits var ying from co-creator, to creative director to project manager, and the list goes on and on. Inker on Punisher and lots of other projects, co-founder of Event, Mar vel Knights, Ash and Painkiller Jane, it goes on and on. Then there are the things I’ll bet you never ex pected to see: Best Editor 1999-2000 Wizard Awards. Eisner Award for Editor on Best Series for Mar vel Comics: Inhumans. JP: And all those Gold box awards from Jamie Graham who owns Graham Crackers, a bunch of excellent stores in the Chicago area. He gives away these awards of excellence in comics each year. Jamie is a retailer whom I track down at every show and shoot the bull with about what’s going on in comics. He is very plugged in to what other retailers are concerned with and every time we meet, I walk away learning more about the business. He really is a smart, talented guy. You have to be to run a good business. My mom has some of those awards at her house on her refrigerator and in the window with flowers on it. DF: Some people think the editor is the enemy to the writer or the ar tist. Was it weird for you to cross that line and become an editor? JP: That changes when the editor gets your buddies work. Changes it real quick. I have this habit of, if I’m going to hire a talented writer for something, I’m not going to touch it. I may point out something that may not be accurate with the character, but I’m not going to go in and change the work. I’m hiring talent that expects a certain amount of freedom, so I have a tendency to have them do a detailed pitch first. DF: I think that’s one problem that comes with the territor y. If you’re hiring a writer to do his own thing in his own voice, 68 | WRITE NOW

then how much should you guide him, and if you’re guiding them, why did you hire them? JP: The guys that really need the guidance, I don’t hire them, because it’s a pain in the ass. It’s not the right guy for the book if I have to go in and start changing everything. With Black Bull, I’ve edited the Pilgrim series with Garth Ennis. But it’s Garth’s character, so I’m not going to tell him that his character is going to or is not going to do something. I’m going to make sure that the language is okay and that it’s clear. In a case like that, the editor is a clean-up guy to make sure the word balloons are in the right places and to check the coloring. Coloring is a big thing to me and the continuity of coloring. That’s why I lean to only one or two colorists like Paul Mounts. DF: There must have been a challenge with Mar vel Knights, say in a case like Daredevil. You hire a Kevin Smith for his personal vision, but it’s Mar vel’s character that has all this histor y. JP: There were changes. Kevin would get racy with some stuff and we would get it nixed by Bob and Chris. Or Kevin would describe something in the script and Joe, to his credit, when he drew it, had to be a extra clever about lighting something potentially offensive. He had to make sure that the nun with the fork in her head wasn’t the biggest thing in the panel. We were accountable for everything coming out of Knights, so we

had to do it the right way. DF: Now, resuming the stor y of your writing career. You did Gatecrasher and suddenly, after Gatecrasher, there seems to be this Palmiotti ex plosion. Ever y other day there’s something in the Hollywood Reporter or on some comics web site about this proper ty or that proper ty you’re involved with. Is it par t of a master plan? JP: While I was doing Marvel Knights and Event, I had a lot of ideas for books. Part of me said, “Until you can own a piece of it, don’t throw it out there.” For instance, Beautiful Killer is something I had in my notebooks while I was doing Marvel Knights. DF: Do you keep a journal of ideas? JP: I keep notebooks. They’re all over the house. I keep one in my jacket pocket, so if something hits me while I’m on the train, I’ll write it down. It’s not all genius. Last night, Amanda and I were eating and I saw a picture of a guy playing tennis and I said, “It would be cool for the Punisher to shoot a grenade out of the tennis ball launcher and for the villain to hit as it explodes.” It’s actually a stupid idea, but when you write ideas down and evaluate them later, eventually you can come up with something good. Sometimes I come up with titles, something that’s a great name for a book and I try to work on

an idea that the title can fit. Resistance and 21 Down were just names. What’s a name for a guy who, once he turns 21, he’s dead? It’s an interesting expression. It’s a Blackjack expression. It works with the book’s lead character. Resistance is obvious. We’re not the first to come up with the title Resistance. We originally wanted to call the book Strayz, but Scott Lobdell wrote a book the year before called Stray that I dialogued, It was about a dog that had super powers, and we thought that people might confuse the two. Strayz is what we called the characters in the book, The cover to Palmiotti & Gray’s 21 Down #2. since they are kids that are Art by Joe Jusko. [©2003 WildStorm Productions.] born without the government’s consent. I always have ideas. When I go to a bad movie, I think, “If they only did this or that…” I’ve had that since I was a kid. Hollywood is running out of stuff. When you go to the movies, you’ll see that they are running out of ideas. Independent films are more interesting than anything that Hollywood has produced. I think this can benefit comics. Of course, there are Marvel and DC and their mainstream heroes. But there are a lot more interesting books out there than these mainstream heroes. For a company like WildStorm to take a risk with Justin and I and release two totally new series is a big risk. But it’s a smart risk. Even if the books die, they put new properties and characters out there. DF: Do you share the ownership on any of these proper ties? JP: Yes on Resistance, but not on 21 Down. 21 Down works within the WildStorm Universe. DF: Do you work full script, or plot and then script? JP: Full script. What we do with the WildStorm stuff is, we send [WildStorm editor] Bob Harras an outline for the issue, and then we go in and full-script it. Justin and I meet and go over everything. We keep breaking it down, and then we dialogue it, and we meet again after that. We get an issue done in a week the way we work. DF: Have you tried the Mar vel style, with the plot first? JP: I did that with Beautiful Killer. Time-wise, we’re better with full script. But Beautiful Killer was a bi-monthly book. When I gave [artist] Phil Noto the plots, I gave him dialogue snippets, too. I would give him that so he would know where to go with the characters’ faces. Some of the Beautiful Killer stuff is especially beautiful where he nails the faces. At times there wasn’t enough room over the figures’ heads for copy, and we had a lot of story to cover. I don’t mind that there was so much dialogue, because there were three or four pages with no dialogue. I feel that, when you buy a comic, it shouldn’t go by in two minutes. It should be something that you can sit there with for half an hour and totally get into. With Beautiful Killer, there was a good bit of reading. And it was my decision with the Black Bull books to have tons of letters pages, because I PALMIOTTI | 69

feel like it gives you more to read. DF: That’s the great thing about Erik Larsen’s Savage Dragon. Tons of tex t pages. JP: It’s just people rambling and I like that. DC has online message boards that are very interactive. The writers and artists are on the boards and people go to them and post stuff. Justin and I go to the Resistance and 21 Down boards each week. We answer the questions that they have there for us. DF: With all these new proper ties that you’ve launched, you must know enough people not to have to do things as comics. Do you produce stuff directly for TV and movies? Why do you stay with comics? JP: Spy Girls was something done directly for TV. I have a thing called Ballerina that we are shooting directly for TV. Justin and I have a couple of things that we are pitching directly to TV and film as well. My lawyer, Kevin Levine, has his people out there selling them. The Pro is something that, when we created it, we hoped that we’d sell to Hollywood. We do things that are not comic book properties as well, But I do love the comics medium. It’s an instant way to get an idea out there. Granted, you have to shop it around in a different way with comics, because you want to own as much as you can. For instance, with Pro, we went with Image because we would own it all. Jim Valentino [Image publisher] was great enough to tell us we could do anything we wanted with it. Other than a fee and some minor stuff, we own the property. When we work with WildStorm, we own a percentage, but even that is great because it’s a decent percentage that’s split up among the team. So if the property develops a life outside of comics, then we are all involved financially. Beautiful Killer is a perfect example of that. Jessica Alba [TV’s Dark Angel] is probably going to star in the movie and that’s great. My bankbook loves the idea since I own a piece of the package. DF: I still would have liked to see a third season of Dark Angel. JP: What can you do? It wasn’t me, it was the ratings. [Laughs] To get back to what you were asking, it’s not so much the contacts in Hollywood that I have, but that when you have one or two properties that are getting looked at, all of a sudden people want to look at other stuff that you’re doing. I have properties that are written and worked out and ready to go. I’m not this guy that you come to and say, “I’m looking for this kind of thing, can you write something?” That cheapens what you are doing. I have enough ideas of my own. DF: Even if someone came to you with something you liked? JP: If they came to me with a genre, I might be open. I like westerns but no one is doing westerns. As a matter of fact, I own a property called The Civil Warrior that I would like to do. I own the name. I did the copyright and licensing on it. It’d make a good wrestler’s name, too. As with a lot of this Hollywood stuff—you have to understand that what you do is going to get changed and will not be what you originally wanted. Comic books are still the preference, because you have more creative control, so much so that, even with 21 Down and Resistance, each artist e-mails me the pages as they go. I’m not the editor, but I look at the art. I’m a control freak. If I see something that needs to be altered, we alter it. The comics are a lot clearer vision of what you, the writer, have in your mind. With a film, it becomes 800 other people’s thing. The stuff that we work on for film, we know that it won’t end up as we originally saw it. Sometimes it will make you want to jump off a building, and at other times it’s cool, if

they did good stuff with your character that you never would have thought of. But I won’t be able to brag until I have something actually made. Even with Ash, it was a development deal and we never saw anything made. Ash is still sitting at DreamWorks with another director, and they probably have another writer on it. Who knows? DF: You and Joe are not going to get a crack at the script? JP: They made an offer, through my lawyer, where they weren’t going to pay us. Unless we’re getting paid, why would I bother? It doesn’t matter, because no matter what I do, it’ll change. They’ll pay another guy who has screenwriting credits but knows nothing about the character 300 grand to write it, but they won’t pay the guys who came to them with it a dime to write it. That’s the way it goes. Nothing against anybody, but that’s the way they do business. They have their security blankets around them, like comics editors do, relationships with people that they always go to. The Hollywood thing is fun. It gives us money so we can play. Amanda and I take the money we make from Hollywood and vacation a lot. DF: Are you and Amanda working on projects together? JP: We did The Pro. The next thing we have is Two-Step, with Warren Ellis. Warren was nice enough to cut us into the creatorowned pie. I’m also writing something for Amanda to draw, and then we’re going to shop it around to a publisher. The next Garth/Amanda/Jimmy project will be for next year, called NYX. Its going to be done in the same format as The Pro. Think of it as a followup that has nothing to do with the characters and everything to do with the creators. DF: Did you find any resistance when you wanted to go from being an inker to being a writer/editor? JP: Definitely to being a writer. People already knew I could edit from Marvel Knights and Black Bull. As a writer, I still read reviews of my stuff that say, “Here’s the inker doing this.” If they’re uncomfortable with it, then that shows their limitations. I think that I get that sort of thing because the books I’m writing are not bigselling books. If I was writing X-Men or Spider-Man or Batman for a year, then it would be a lot more acceptable. But because it’s alternative, I think people get very comfortable how they see work from small publishers. Anybody who’s read the books that I’ve done, has had that prejudice knocked out of them a little bit and they have a little more faith in my writing skills. Beautiful Killer has gotten really nice reviews, although I see the flaws in it a million miles away. It’s still better than some Art from the upcoming Two-Step, written by Warren of the books that are Ellis with art from Amanda Conner & Jimmy Palmiotti. [©2003 Warren Ellis & Amanda Conner.]

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coming out, by guys who have been writing for years. I’m not saying my stuff is brilliant, but I think it’s got energy to it. Until I find my voice 100%, it’s going to be a little rocky. There’s an easier way to take my career if I wanted to, which is stay on mainstream stuff and just focus on that. But I’ve been there already and I’ve done that. It’s boring. I think Brian Bendis is a really good example of someone who knows what he’s doing. I look at Brian, and he still does his own books, and then he does Spider-Man. And he’s also writing for TV. That’s smart. Or look at David Mack. He still does Kabuki, but he also does Daredevil. These guys are very level-headed. I think these are the guys that will make a big difference in the long run. I just think that someone who writes the same A Palmiotti-inked panel from issue #3 of the recent Shang-Chi: Master of Kung-Fu revival from Marvel/Max super-hero for years, although there is a Comics. Written by Doug Moench and penciled by Paul Gulacy. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] certain love there, if the industry changes, say ‘I give up. I can’t figure out which is the actual character aren’t ready for change, and it might hurt them in the long run. and actual universe.’” They didn’t seem to think it was a DF: My generation of comics pros were the ones who, as kids, problem. What’s your take on that kind of stuff? were tired of the simplistic DC super-hero stores, but didn’t JP: I think it is a minor worry. I don’t think you should always know it. The Fantastic Four came out and we were just slavishly follow the history of the characters, but I think you sucked in to this new Mar vel thing. That’s what formed our should have a basic consistency. I have no problems with reidea of comics. Then there are the 20-something creators of booting characters, but you shouldn’t forget what makes them today who have their own idea of what a good comic is. You’re work as well. DC is a lot more wrapped up in continuity than in the middle generation, with an appreciation of both sides. Marvel these days. That’s obvious. It may be hurting DC’s sales JP: When I was younger, my favorite comic was the FF. I loved in a way, because they probably should update some of the the Jack Kirby stuff, and John Buscema after him. I really went concepts. But you can’t keep changing the concepts every for Master of Kung-Fu and War of the Worlds by Don McGregor issue, because then there’s no stability with the characters. I and P. Craig Russell. I loved Gulacy’s Sable. I really liked that think it’s cool to keep changing the Bond actors, but you have alternate stuff. Also, Man-Thing and Kaluta’s Shadow. There to keep them close to the character that was created. Think was also Swamp Thing drawn by Bernie Wrightson. The look of about how the franchise would suffer if Bond all of a sudden comics changed in the ‘70s to be more illustration-y. I loved was a fat guy from Hoboken, but on the same spy adventures. that everything looked so completely different than it had You get my drift. before. Unfortunately, we haven’t gone back to being that DF: When Todd McFarlane star ted drawing Spider-Man, I think creative yet. I still think that everything looks pretty much the that opened up the floodgates for a lot of offbeat stuff. Things same these days. You can throw the Oni Press guys onto no longer has to look like the offspring of Ditko and Romita. It mainstream books and generate some excitement, but even could be all these different things. I think it’s good creatively. so, it’s harder and harder to come up with something really But is there a limit to how effective it is commercially? different. The next Image guys, where are they? JP: I think to fully understand it, you have to understand who is DF: I look at a book like X-Force, and I’m so mix ed in my buying comics today. It’s mostly guys in their 20s, 30s and emotions about a book like that. Something in me says it 40s. We don’t have young readers anymore. Other than DC looks wrong. But like anything, if they do their job, they can Young Readers titles, I don’t think there is anything made for create a world and they can pull you into the stor y. I fought younger kids. my prejudice and bought an issue recently. My reaction was, DF: That’s one of the key questions we all face. “Who are “This is good, but would I buy it nex t month?” comics for?” My opinion is, if you don’t learn to read them as JP: That is an odd book because it has a ’50s visual sensibility a kid, then you are never going to read them. I think it’s like with ‘90s things going on. Content-wise it pushes the envelope, learning to ride a bike or learning a foreign language. and then the artwork pulls you back at the same time. It’s a JP: Play a video game for an hour and you’ll understand why a really odd mix. kid would rather play a video game. There is a whole world in DF: It looks almost like a ’50s romance book. them. And no kid has three dollars to blow on a comic when JP: That’s an odd book, but I have to say that it’s infinitely they can blow it on a slice of pizza on the way home from more interesting that half the other stuff coming out. school. Comics are expensive, and they’re not accessible to DF: I think that I have a hard time with it because I come younger kids. Where are they going to easily get them, when from the generation I do. I asked Bendis and Quesada when I you have to make a special trip to a comic book store? inter viewed them: “You have all these Spider-Man comics in DF: Is that situation fixable, or do you think we’re stuck with different eras and different universes and with different contithis? nuities. And you have a bunch of books drawn by Michael JP: I think comics have to be reformatted. Allred and other quirky ar tists that look so wacky and offbeat. DF: Are we now jazz or poetr y, in terms of narrow audience Does it worr y you that people will throw up their hands and PALMIOTTI | 71

don’t need to go right into the comics trade section. People make-up? need to know that there’s a new book out. JP: We’ve always been jazz. We’ve always been an American DF: I think there’s a schizophrenia about what they are and artform. who they’re for. DF: But jazz was once the mainstream music of America, and JP: When I was in France last year, the comics were in now it’s a niche. department stores. They have a graphic novel section in the JP: We are definitely a niche. We are never going to be stores equivalent to our Macy’s. You go in and all there is are mainstream. We can’t do what the Europeans do. We can’t graphic novels. Graphic novels about history, detectives, reprogram the United States’ entertainment tastes. People who science-fiction, all genres. run the comics companies It was separated by genre. seem very happy with us You’ll never see that in being small and out of the America, because it’s way and sneaking into considered a bastard art media here and there. We form here. Here, you’ll see don’t have any stars in all the trades lumped comics. Who’s the most together. famous guy in comics? DF: Is the monthly comic Stan Lee, hands down. dying out? Kevin Smith at times. He’ll JP: I think the monthly write a comic here or there, comic is only appealing to but comics creators have a small audience. If DC no public image figure decided that Superman besides Stan, really. was going to be one DF: When comics was at monthly book for $9.95, its height in the ’50s, and Marvel decided to nobody in the public knew package X-Men as five who any of the creators series in one monthly title were, they just knew for $9.95 that would be Batman and Superman. an exciting thing to try. If JP: They still know who these were the only things these characters are, but coming out, if Marvel and they don’t know they came DC would each release from comic books. They three $9.95 books a know the Spider-Man week, squarebound books, movie. You have the movie that would open some coming out in Blockbuster, doors. If they changed to and there should have been that kind of format, not a rack of comics in there, only would you see too. There should have bookstores getting them been a coupon for comics in, but I bet that kids in the Spider-Man or would be buying them. You Batman DVDs. There can take risks when you should be coupons for are doing that. The subscriptions and there readers are going to buy aren’t. They’re not thinking the X-Men and you can try past the quick buck. It’s out something totally new great to get the trade in that book and it will get paperbacks in the book picked up and get read. stores, but where are they It’s less of a risk to try putting the trade books? A page from the David Mack-written Daredevil storyline. Art by Quesada & Palmiotti. something when you have They’re putting them in that From Daredevil Vol. 2 #9. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] established, stable books. weird trade section. The Having 12 X-Men books a year, a reader can go to Amazon or new trade that comes out in a given week isn’t on the table Barnes & Noble and buy a year’s worth for $120. with the new books for that week. It’s shoved into the trade DF: You think that would work? section. JP: In a big city, you can sell monthly comics. But in a small DF: Do you think the faith that the major comics companies town, you can drive for miles and never see a comic book are putting in the bookstore market is warranted? store. If they were packaged in the kind of format I was talking JP: It’s good that the books are there, but the publishers have about, every bookstore would pick them up. If the price range to work harder at it. It’s about placement. Placement is the key was different, Amazon would feature them on their main page with any novel or book. You have to pay for that spot. The every week. You’d still get people going into comic book stores, companies have to start paying for key spots. These graphic because we hardcore readers go into comic book stores to see novels and hardcovers and softcovers need to have a space what’s new and look at the toys and the trade books. We look next to the mainstream books that come out that month. They 72 | WRITE NOW

at everything. But not everybody has a comic store near their house. But they have book stores everywhere. If Barnes & Noble had a rack with the $10 books, people would pick them up. DF: Maybe I’m old school but I like the idea of the monthly 22-page comics. It’s like watching episodes of a favorite TV show as opposed to getting them collected on DVD. It’s a different experience. JP: I don’t not like the monthly comics. I just don’t think it’s realistic anymore. DF: When you write these monthly comics, do you tr y to put complete stories in them? JP: Every six issues I try to get one complete story in. DF: Do you tr y for a complete chapter in each issue? JP: Yeah. I have to work with the format. I have to respect that for the person buying it, it might be the first time they pick the title up. DF: A lot of that feeling has gone by the wayside. JP: I know. But it’s easy to do. It’s not as hard as everyone complains about it being. DF: They seem to do it on ever y TV show, ever y night, ever y day of the year. JP: Really. Every time you watch John Doe they give you the origin in the beginning. They recap before every episode of NYPD Blue or the The Sopranos. DF: I think TV writers are held to a more mainstream standard. JP: They definitely get paid more. If pay reflects upon quality, then we suck. But why should a comics writer do it when even the cheapest animation guy is getting ten-grand a show and you’re talking about doing a comic book for two-grand. DF: There’s a former TV guy in an ex ecutive position at DC now, Dan DiDio. You worked with him, didn’t you? JP: Dan is a funny story. Dan used be my next-door neighbor here in this building. Dan was working for ABC-TV when I knew him here, him and his family. He’s from Brooklyn. We did a proposal together years ago for a Superboy/Guardian comic. Archie Goodwin was the only one that okayed it. It went by the wayside, but Dan and I stayed friends. Then, when Mark, Amanda and I did Gatecrasher, Dan had started working for Mainframe Animation, and Mainframe picked up Gatecrasher. When the Superboy comic gig came to me, I figured, since he and I had pitched a Superboy project together, it’d only be fair that I ask him to do it with me. So I asked him, and he wanted to do it, so we did it, and halfway through the gig, he gets a call from a talent scout who wants him to work at DC. So all of a sudden, he’s Editorial VP. Dan is making a big difference up there. DF: What kind of difference? And do you think it’s indicative of any kind of shifting attitude in comics in general or at DC in par ticular? JP: I think Dan has a finger on the pulse of what people really want to see. He has experience with TV film and children’s shows with ReBoot and Beast Wars. I think he was a good guy to bring in because he has an outsider’s perspective on the comics industry, but he also knows about comics in general. It was a good hire for DC because he has a different attitude. He knows they need to become a stronger company and they need to try new things. He’s really shaking things up there. I think 2003 is going to be DC’s year because of Dan and the crew in there. I think it’s going to be a whole different world. DF: Do you think there’s any beating Mar vel, Hollywoodwise, what with the momentum of Spider-Man and X-Men and the

Ang Lee Hulk? JP: Beating Marvel? I don’t like to make the distinction between companies. We need to get comic characters out there. Witchblade, Spider-Man, Hulk, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Road To Perdition… all good. I think it’s great for the movies, but did the Spider-Man movie sell one more copy of the Spider-Man comic? DF: Maybe one. JP: I am sure it sold a lot of trades and the numbers showed a bit better for a month or two, but overall, you would of thought it made more of an impact. If you want to look at what the movie and the comic have in common, it’s not much. The movie wouldn’t exist without the comic. But how many people saw the movie? Let’s say it’s 100 million. Did we get one out of 10 thousand people buying a Spider-Man comic after that? Think of those numbers. How pathetic is that? Are Spider-Man comics selling that much more than they used to? No, maybe the toys or the video games and hardcovers, but how did it affect the comic book community? I know its not Sony’s job to promote comics, but in the future we need to make sure the studios understand that things have to be co-op-ed better between the companies. DF: Wouldn’t it have been interesting if, at the end of ever y showing of the movie, they had an ad for comics, and on TV they had ads for comics? And, if then, they’d been able to put them in places where interested people could actually find and buy them. JP: I’m not picking at Marvel and I’m not picking at SpiderMan. I’m using it as the obvious example we all know. The movie grossed $800 million, but where is any of that money in comics land? How many people’s rates went up much? It affects guys like me more because now, Hollywood is looking for the next big thing. [See Steven Grant’s ar ticle about Hollywood and comics in this issue. —DF] I’m probably making more money because of it than some of the comics people drawing the Spider-Man books. Realistically, we had this really great opportunity, just like with the first Batman movie, just like with any super-hero show or movie from DC or Marvel. It doesn’t matter what company. We have an opportunity to open up a whole new bunch of people to what we do. You can tell me that the trade books help, and they do. The smartest thing Marvel did was getting more trade books out into the bookstores and I am excited to see Marvel doing so well with the movie properties, But the day-to-day of the comics business hasn’t changed. It’s still the same petty business and the same monthly books. They’re better written and they’re better looking and maybe they’re better colored. But if I can’t get them, what good is it? DF: To sell anything, you have to promote it and have a place for people to buy it, if they do decide that they want it. JP: When I go to Times Square and see these Spider-Man blowup dolls in the gift shops, are there Spider-Man comics in the store? No. Are they anywhere besides the comics shops? I don’t think we’re really thinking about what’s important, which is how to make comics more accessible. I’m not talking about content. I’m talking about physically accessible. I know that I have to go to a bar to get a beer, but I also know that I can go to any supermarket and get one. I also know that I can go almost anyplace and get one. If I want comic books there is only one place to go, comics stores. If I happen to be in an area that has a big chain bookstore, it’ll have some graphic novels, but it’s going to have stuff I probably already have, or PALMIOTTI | 73

else it only has a couple of items to choose from. And you have to go looking for it, because it’s not on the new table when the book comes in. DF: And on the shelf, they’re often spine out, so they don’t catch the casual reader’s eye. Do you think the manga phenomenon will help solve some of these problems? JP: I think manga has nothing to do with us. It’s its own entity and doesn’t involve us. To put super-heroes like Batman and Superman in manga is great for the manga guys. But it’s a whole different thing. As far as what is our business, I don’t see it growing that much. I think there are more people coming into comics stores and buying one or two comics when they see something that gets their interest. I know that The Pro changed things in a weird way. New York retailers told me that people who never bought comics went into their stores because they saw the publicity The Pro got outside the regular industry channels. I think some of the stuff that Bill and Joe did when they went on the news with The Call of Duty comic was good for getting attention for the industry. But if you get it out there, and get people looking for it, and then if the stores don’t have or it’s sold out, you’re beat. And with those Call books, the only place you could get these books was the comic book stores, and a normal person will not go to a comic book store. I know people and you know people who would love to buy comics but don’t know where the comic book store is or don’t want to go into a comic book store. DF: If you go by Manhattan or LA the business is great. Stores are flourishing in those cities. JP: Or Chicago. But anywhere else you have to travel long distances to get to a comics store. DF: Mar vel and DC seem to be in the proper ty licensing business as opposed to the comic book business. The proper ty licensing business is a good business. But it’s not the business that we thought we were in. JP: The companies have to be in that business in order for them to keep going. They are making a little money off the

comics, but it’s not enough. They run ads, but it’s not enough. Believe me, if they were not selling the characters to media outside of comics, they wouldn’t do half the books they’re doing. DF: What’s good and hopeful about comics? What’s next for you? JP: What’s good about comics now is that we are breaking into film and TV. Hopefully, the people running the companies will be smart enough to know how to repackage and re-introduce these products to new people. DF: If you were 22 years old today, would you want to get into comics, and if you would, how would you go about it? JP: If I had no girlfriend and there were no good bars near my house... If I wanted to get into comics now, I would be buying Oni stuff and alternative stuff. I wouldn’t be buying Marvel and DC mainstream—only Vertigo, WildStorm and Max. As a professional, I would be one of the independent guys. I would have a particular vision and it wouldn’t be super-heroes, because it’s hard for me to understand the motivation to be a super-hero. DF: Even if you wanted to do super-heroes, you’d probably star t with the independents, yes? JP: Definitely. Either self-publish cheap black-and-white books, or trying to get in through Oni or people who actually take a risk with publishing. Companies like Vertigo and WildStorm and Dark Horse, some of the smaller companies. Anyone who sees a vision other than guys flying around smacking each other. DF: Is there going to be a comics business in ten years for somebody who wants to get in to be in? JP: There will be a business, but it will be different. We’re different than we were 10 years ago in a bizarro way, in the way we approach the things we do. There will be a business, but it’s going to be lean unless things change real quick. I find that, although some comics stores have a lot of people coming in, the aisle with the toys is just as busy as the aisle with the comics. I think the fringe things about comics will be more important than the books themselves unless the books change format. It depends on the people in charge. If Marvel and DC both decide that, as of 2003, some new way is how they are going to format comics, and that new way caught on, the industry might have a chance. Decisions like that can literally make or break how comics are viewed. DF: Do you think they can get people to buy formats like the ones we discussed? JP: Sure they’ll buy it. Some people will buy it any way it’s given to them, we already know that. But we can’t worry about the hardcores, because they will always be there to buy the books no matter what format they’re in. What we have to do is focus on the people not buying the books and format them to make it accessible to them. It doesn’t matter to the hardcores who’s writing or drawing X-Men because they will always buy it unless they die or get a girlfriend. Once you know you can get laid, that’s the end of comics. [laughter] I think format is the future. I think comics will be around, but they won’t be the same thing they are now. I think that we will lose a lot of comics’ creative people to Hollywood. I think they will finally realize that they can do that kind of stuff. Mark Waid just moved to LA after moving to Florida for a time to work for CrossGen. If Hollywood is smart, they will kidnap his ass pronto. DF: What’s good about the future of comics? JP: There are more creator-owned deals going on, and more risk-taking in the business. If things are going well, maybe some people will open up their minds and let some new ideas

in. What’s good about it for me is that I’m getting the opportunity to do things that I never did and to work with people I love to work with. I can’t speak for the whole industry, but I think the trade books are a step in the right direction. We need to get business people from outside of comics into comics to start dictating how the books should be distributed. DF: As we wrap up, is there anything you want to plug? JP: 21 Down and Resistance will still, hopefully, be going Cover art for Resistance #7 by Christopher Shy. when this interview [©2003 WildStorm Productions.] comes out. I don’t have a lot else coming out. I have Reload and Two-Step. Reload is with Paul Gulacy and Warren Ellis, and Two-Step is with Amanda Conner and Warren Ellis. Justin and I have a series that we are on the third issue of, but it’s coming out in the fall. It’s an ongoing title in the DC Universe, but it’s a creator-owned thing anyway, which is a really tough arrangement to get. DC’ll be able to take our character and run around with it in their universe, and we’ll be able to use DC characters in our stories. And, hopefully, by the time this comes out, I’ll have one or two TV or movie things. I have a development deal. DF: For anyone reading who doesn’t know, development deal is what? JP: It means that someone likes the idea you wrote and wants to pursue making it into a film or TV show. My lawyer or agent shows it to them, they look at it and, if they’re interested in it and they want to make sure no one else gets to buy the rights to your idea, they give you a development deal. They will give you a deal to develop your idea into a movie or TV show. If they do, you get X amount, but in the meantime, here’s some money to hold the property, so they control it now for development for a year or two. After that they get a chance at renewing the deal or you get all the rights back and can have your people shop it around to another buyer. DF: Was it hard to get an agent? JP: No. There are agents that e-mail me, every day. But I’ve been managing fine without one, just using my lawyer and a friend or two. The lawyer takes the agent’s job some of the time. When you have an agent, they tend to attach themselves as producers on deals and you learn that the producer makes almost as much as the guy bringing in the project. I’ve been very careful about that. DF: You’re a lifelong Brooklynite. Any thoughts to moving out West? JP: No. South would be the first direction. I always feel that, if there’s a plane leaving from Kennedy every day, I can just go

out West if I have to. It’s a fun place to visit, but if you’re a creative person, you don’t have to be there every minute. In the ’60s, ’70s and ’80s it was smart to live in New York if you were going to work for Marvel and DC. But these days, if you have talent, it doesn’t matter where you live. I think that computers have made the world a smaller place in a lot of good ways. I think Amanda and I could live comfortably anywhere and still do the work we’re doing as long as the FedEx guy comes and as long as we not on the tip of a volcano or at the bottom of the sea. Moving to California is not something I see myself doing because it doesn’t make any sense. If you throw yourself into the eye of that storm, you tend to get beaten up by the people around you, as everyone out there is looking to hustle. When you separate yourself from that, I think they have more respect for you. Alan Moore has got it down. Nobody ever sees him but he’s treated like gold, while there are guys you see every day and, even if they’re brilliant, it doesn’t matter because it’s that guy you see every day. DF: Any words of advice or caution for aspiring writers? JP: It’s easier to sell your property if you bring an artist into it with you. If you’re going to conventions and showing your writing to editors, remember that they’re not going to read it there. If you’re going to tell them the story over a beer, they’re going to want to kill you. If you’re going to write anything to present, make sure it’s one page long and that you get the idea across. Remember that Jaws works because it’s simple and direct: a shark terrorizes a small town. That’s all you need to know. That’s how stories need to go. Also, self-publishing is the way to go. Go to the cons and meet an artist. You can go to an Oni Press or some other indie, but don’t let it stop you if you can’t get a deal with them. Publish your work yourself and get it out and then work on the next thing. DF: How you get people to notice self-published work? JP: You go to cons and send people comps. You go online and go to websites and find out influential people’s addresses and mail them your comic and address the letter to them personally. If it’s Matt Brady at Newsarama, address your mail to Matt and say, “Dear Matt, I read your column and I just want to send you my new book. Whether you want to review it or not, thanks for looking at it.” Be kind, be courteous and don’t badmouth anybody. If someone treats you bad, don’t tell stories about it, because it doesn’t make you look big. It makes you look small. Be really positive and know when to walk away from someone if you’re bugging them. Going to the cons is a good thing because you can hear other writers talk and try to understand how they got in. And keep buying this magazine, because Danny Fingeroth and his kids have got to eat. [laughter] DF: You heard the man. You have a big web presence. Is there anything you want to say about the web? JP: The web is good as long as you don’t take it seriously and as long as you don’t read everything they say about you. You have to understand that when people review your books, it’s just one person’s opinion and not everyone else’s. I think the web is a great way to get out there and meet people. My website is not interactive, but you can go to the DC boards on the books I write and leave your comments there. Justin and I go in there and reply to them. DF: This seems as good a place as any to end the inter view. Thanks for your time and thoughts, Jimmy. It’s been a lot of fun. JP: Thank you, Danny. And I’m sorry I forgot about The Skul. PALMIOTTI | 75

THE END

Feedback Letters from our readers So many letters—or e-mails, anyway—so little space. Thanks to everybody who wrote in. Seems like DFWN! is a big hit with people who know and love writing. Even the few naysayers had, for the most part, cogent comments to make. I’d love to respond to everybody who wrote, even if your letter didn’t get printed. Newborn twins makes that a little difficult, though. (Ethan! Get that zip drive out of your mouth! Jacob—no drooling on the original art!) But all your missives are read and mulled over. Thanks for caring enough to write. Now, let’s take a sampling… Danny: As an aspiring writer, I very much enjoyed your interview with Todd Alcott in Write Now! #2. His insights and anecdotes were interesting and informative. I particularly enjoyed the second half of the interview, when Todd commented on the inner workings of the writer’s life. I’m always interested in hearing more about issues like finding an agent, instructive/inspirational literature and developing a writing schedule. Based entirely on Todd’s recommendation, I just purchased David Mamet’s Writing in Restaurants. The recommendations that you made in “Books on Writing” were also much appreciated. I already own Denny O’Neil’s book and have put it to good use in my daily writing sessions. You will be happy to know that I have added Robert McKee’s and Nat Gertler’s books to my Amazon wish list. Thanks for a great read. I look forward to Write Now! #3. Steve Wasser via the internet I’m glad to know you found the reviews helpful and have bought Writing in Restaurants, Steve. But not as happy, I’d imagine, as David Mamet, who’ll actually make some money from your purchase. To Danny Fingeroth: I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy Write Now! magazine. The interviews so far have been very insightful and motivational. Congratulations on a fine job thus far and I look forward to the next issue! Tavares Robinson via the internet Dear Mr. Fingeroth: Good work on Write Now! #2. I look forward to continuing to read, and to learn from Write Now! Regarding Stan Berkowitz’s question, “for something to appeal strongly to children, does it have to insult an adult’s intelligence?”: I think there are many obvious examples of work that children and adults can enjoy... and do. 76 | WRITE NOW

Animation: Hayao Miyazaki’s work like My Neighbor Totoro and Kiki’s Delivery Service, much of the Warner Brothers heyday (especially the cartoons of Jones, Maltese, Freling, Avery, McKimson, etc.), The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, and so on. Prose: J.K. Rowlings’ Harry Potter books, Lewis Carroll’s Alice books, and dozens in between, including heavily illustrated books by people such as Maurice Sendak and Dr. Seuss. Comics: It’s tougher here, since most writing for comics through most of its history has in fact been pretty bad, at least in my opinion. And the best work—mostly from recent years— is decidedly not for kids. (e.g., Maus, Watchmen, Jimmy Corrigan, etc.) But Uncle Scrooge comics by Carl Barks and the best of the early Mad Magazine era—while not likely to make anyone forget about Melville, Shelley, Shakespeare or Tolkein—certainly aren’t “insulting.” Again, thanks for putting together such an interesting magazine. I do wish Erik Larsen had had more to say about craft. Lee Nordling’s quiz was excellent, as are the “Nuts & Bolts” features—the Spider-Girl examples were particularly interesting. Thanks again, and I look forward to more. Jim Ottaviani Via the internet Danny: Just finished reading Write Now! No. 2 and enjoyed it even more than the first issue. Steven Grant’s piece on the practical side of the biz of freelancing was outstanding and I’d love to see more of this kind of thing in future issues. I have one suggestion that I think would be helpful. I’d like to see a feature where you have a professional editor, writer or artist critique a script to show where some of the more common mistakes are made in the comics writing process. Seeing what people do wrong is often more informative than what they do right and an artist’s view on a scene someone has written that is difficult (or impossible) to draw and the reasons why would be quite valuable. Another thing I think a lot of beginning writers have a hard time with is keeping the number of panels per page down. An editor’s point of view on how to fix that problem would be great. Again, this is a great magazine and I look forward to Write Now! #3. Take care. Thomas J. McLean via the internet Thanks, Thomas. Hope it met your expectations and then some. Starting in issue #5, we’ll be adding a new feature that may answer some of your questions. More on that elsewhere in this issue, and lot more on it next issue. I think you’ll really like it. Dear Danny Write Now! is a superb idea! I’ve been a comics fan since I was a tyke. I’ve been writing stories featuring my favorite LETTERS continues on page 77

Gives you the lowdown on

BOOKS ON WRITING

How To Write For Animation

By Danny Fingeroth

By Jeffrey Scott The Overlook Press, Woodstock and New York, 2002 US $27.95 Jeffrey Scott is Moe Howard’s grandson. Yes, that Moe Howard, as in “Moe, Larry & Curly, the Three Stooges” Moe Howard. I mention this not just because it’s a cool factoid— which it is—but because there is something that’s somehow appropriate about a descendant of human cartoon characters writing a how-to book on animation. Also, Scott’s father is Norman Maurer, who, aside from being creatively involved with the Stooges movies, was also an innovator in the world of comics, working with Joe Kubert in the early days of the field, creating, according to his son, “the world’s first 3-D comic book.” Guess the family has the “3” field covered. On his own, Jeffrey Scott has written over 600 animation scripts, including scripts for Spider-Man, Super Friends, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Sonic the Hedgehog. He’s won three Emmy Awards (again with the “three”). He’s also written feature length animation scripts and live action television. He’s got a regular how-to column in Animation Magazine. He even worked as a comics inker for a while. In other words, the guy knows what he’s talking about. In this straightforward, no-nonsense—but reader-friendly (never once does he call the reader a knucklehead)—book, Scott gives you the basics and beyond. He gives you an overview and the nuts and bolts of what goes into writing a story from understanding the worlds of animation—both on the screen and in the business—to how to structure a script, how to pitch it, and so on. It’s all there. It’s basic story structure stuff, explained clearly and reasonably, and it explains the differences between animation scripts and other types of scripts. “Applying the wrong live-action technique to animation can produce disastrous results,” he says, and goes on to show how. LETTERS continued from page 76

characters since I was 12. Now, at 28, I’ve decided to take a shot at the big league. As much as I enjoy reading these heroes, villains and monsters, I enjoy writing them more. I recently went to my local comics retailer to gather the tools I needed to write like the pros. That’s when I came across your mag, just the tool I needed. I picked up issues #1 and #2 at the same time. I loved the sample scripts and the “lessons disguised as interviews.” But I had no idea how complicated it is to write the comic format. And who better to be taught by than the best in the field? With rent, bills and a three-year-old son, classes on this stuff are impossible, but thanks to your mag, I got a crash course. Has there been any thought on interviewing novel writers like Diane Duane (Venom Factor, Lizard Sanction) or Greg Cox (Gamma Quest Trilogy)? Anyhow, you’ve got my $5.95 every three months.

The chapters and steps are laid out logically, with full-length examples on such items as “beat sheets” and how they’re developed, scripts, series bibles and most of the other tools of the animation writer’s trade. Most of the lessons can as readily be applied to comics writing, since [©2003 Jeffrey Scott.] both comics and animation deal with some of the same limitations, as well as some of the same freedoms that live action doesn’t. And Scott keeps his eye on the verities of all fiction writing. “Characters are the heart and soul of any series…” and “…the hardest things to do (and teach) are creating and developing good characters— because it’s all in the characters.” Scott gives you lots of useful hints about and examples of well-defined characters, including showing how character complexity varies with the age of the intended audience. “As a general rule,” he says, “the younger the audience, the shallower the characters, and the more [the characters’] wants and needs converge.” This is really a perfect book for both fledgling and experienced animation (and comics) writers. The title says it all. You won’t get a clearer roadmap to the creative and business sides of animation. Scott even has a website at which you can send him follow-up questions. You put this book down wanting to write and feeling that you now have the tools to do it. You can’t ask for much more than that.

THE END

Exquisite. Rob Dane Staten Island, NY (NOT via the internet!) Thanks muchly, Rob. Interviewing some comics prose novelists is a good idea. Hopefully sometime in the coming year we’ll get to a couple. And thanks for the $5.95 commitment. I’ll try to make it worth your hard-earned money—and your time. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this issue and on writing in general. You can send your e-mails and letters to me at WriteNowDF@aol.com or Danny Fingeroth, Write Now!, c/o TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605. See ya next time.

THE END

BOOKS ON WRITING | 77

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G-FORCE: ANIMATED

Learn the behind-the-scenes secrets of ALAN MOORE’S MIRACLEMAN, from his beginnings as Marvelman, to the legal and creative hurdles during the 24-issue Eclipse Comics series, and why you never saw the final NEIL GAIMAN-scripted issue!

CAPTAIN ACTION debuted in the wake of the ’60s Batman TV show, and could become 13 different super-heroes. With over 200 toy photos, this trade paperback chronicles his history (including comic book appearances) with historical anecdotes by the late GIL KANE, JIM SHOOTER, STAN WESTON (co-creator of GI Joe, Captain Action, and Mego’s World’s Greatest Super-Heroes), and others, plus never-seen artwork by GIL KANE, JOE STATON, CARMINE INFANTINO, JERRY ORDWAY, and MURPHY ANDERSON (who provides a new cover)! Includes a color section!

The official compendium to the Japanese animated TV program that revolutionized anime across the globe! Featuring plenty of unseen artwork and designs from the wondrous world of G-FORCE (a.k.a. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman), it presents interviews and behind-the-scenes stories of the pop culture phenomenon that captured the hearts and imagination of Generation X, and spawned the new hit comic series! Cowritten by JASON HOFIUS and GEORGE KHOURY, this FULL-COLOR account is highlighted by a NEW PAINTED COVER from master artist ALEX ROSS!

• New MARK BUCKINGHAM cover! • Intro & back cover by ALEX ROSS! • In-depth interviews with ALAN MOORE, JOHN TOTLEBEN, NEIL GAIMAN, MARK BUCKINGHAM, GARRY LEACH, MICK ANGLO, BEAU SMITH, RICK VEITCH, and others! • UNPUBLISHED ART, UNINKED PENCILS, SKETCHES, & CONCEPT DRAWINGS (including art from the never-seen #25)! • Special COLOR SECTION! • NEVER-PUBLISHED 8-page Moore/ Totleben story, “Lux Brevis”, and an UNUSED MOORE SCRIPT!

(176-Page Trade Paperback) $20 US

(96-Page Trade Paperback) $20 US

(144-page Trade Paperback) $17 US

CAPTAIN ACTION

THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO WARREN PUBLISHING JON B. COOKE and DAVID ROACH have compiled the definitive book on the world of Warren Publishing, the publisher of such mags as CREEPY, EERIE, VAMPIRELLA, BLAZING COMBAT, and others. Reprints the Eisner Award-winning magazine COMIC BOOK ARTIST #4 (completely reformatted), plus nearly 200 new pages: • New painted cover by ALEX HORLEY! • A definitive WARREN CHECKLIST! • Dozens of NEW FEATURES on CORBEN, FRAZETTA, DITKO and others, and interviews with WRIGHTSON, WARREN, EISNER, ADAMS, COLAN & many more! (272-page Trade Paperback) $35 US Also available as a Limited Edition Hardcover (limited to 1000 copies) signed by JIM WARREN, with custom endleaves, 16 extra pages, plus a WRIGHTSON plate not in the Trade Paperback. (288-page Hardcover) $57 US

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows Publishing • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 USA • 919-833-8092 • FAX: 919-833-8023 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

BACK ISSUES FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING ™

Edited by ROY THOMAS ALTER EGO, the greatest ’zine of the ’60s, is back & all-new, focusing on Golden & Silver Age comics & creators with articles, interviews, & unseen art. Each issue includes an FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) section, Mr. Monster, & more!

AE #2: (100 pgs.) All-new! AE #3: (100 pgs.) ALEX ROSS AE #4: (100 pgs.) 60 years of AE #5: (100 pgs.) JSA issue! AE #6: (100 pgs.) GENE AE #7: (100 pgs.) Companion AE #8: (100 pgs.) Bio of EISNER “SPIRIT” story, cover & interview, JERRY HAWKMAN & FLASH! ROY Intvs. with SHELLY MAYER, COLAN intv., how-to books by issue to the ALL-STAR WALLY WOOD, ADKINS & KANE, FOX & SCHWARTZ on ORDWAY, BILL EVERETT, THOMAS remembers GIL GIL KANE, MART NODELL, STAN LEE & KANIGHER, ALL- COMPANION! J. SCHWARTZ PEARSON intvs., KUBERT The Atom, L. LIEBER & JACK CARL BURGOS, Giant KANE, intvs. with KUBERT, GEORGE ROUSSOS, FCA with STAR SQUADRON, MAC intv., JLA-JSA teamups, MAC intv., FCA w/ BECK, SWAYZE, BURNLEY intvs., KANIGHER, FAWCETT (FCA) section with MOLDOFF, LAMPERT, FOX, BECK & SWAYZE, NEW RABOY section, FCA with RABOY, FCA with BECK & & ORDWAY, MR. MONSTER, FCA, new color BURNLEY & C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, & FCA with BECK & SWAYZE, INFANTINO / ORDWAY wrap- BECK & SWAYZE, COLAN & SWAYZE, BUCKLER & BECK WOOD & KUBERT covers, more! $8 US KANE covers, more! $8 US more! $8 US KUBERT covers, more! $8 US around cover, more! $8 US RABOY covers, more! $8 US covers, more! $8 US

AE #9: (100 pgs.) JOHN AE #10: (100 pgs) CARMINE AE #11: (100 pgs) Interviews AE #12: (100 pgs) GILL FOX AE #13 (100 pgs.) TITANS OF AE #14 (100 pgs.) JSA FROM AE #15 (108 pgs.) JOHN AE #16: (108 pgs.) COLAN, ROMITA intv. & gallery, plus INFANTINO intv. & art, never- with SYD SHORES, MICKEY on QUALITY COMICS, never- TIMELY/MARVEL Part Two! THE ’40s TO THE ’80s! MIKE BUSCEMA TRIBUTE ISSUE! BUSCEMA, ROMITA, SEVERIN ROY THOMAS’ dream seen FLASH story, VIN SPILLANE, VINCE FAGO, seen PAUL REINMAN Green JOE SIMON & MURPHY NASSER & MICHAEL T. BUSCEMA covers & interview, interviews, ALEX ROSS on projects! FCA with BECK, SULLIVAN & MAGAZINE MAGAZINE ENTERPRISES Lantern art, origins of ALL- ANDERSON covers, Silver Age GILBERT covers, intvs. with unseen art, ROY THOMAS on Shazam!, OTTO & JACK SWAYZE, & TUSKA, MR. ENTERPRISES, FRED Part Two, FCA with BECK, STAR SQUADRON, FCA, MR. AVENGERS section (with ORDWAY & LEE ELIAS, never- their collaborations, plus BINDER, KURTZMAN, new MONSTER, ROMITA & DICK GUARDINEER, AYERS, FCA, SWAYZE, DON NEWTON, MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD, BUSCEMA, HECK, TUSKA, & seen 1940s JSA pgs., ’70s salute to KURT SCHAFFEN- ROSS & FRADON/SEVERIN BERGER, & more! $8 US covers, more! $8 US GIORDANO covers! $8 US MR. MONSTER, more! $8 US MONSTER, more! $8 US more! $8 US THOMAS) & more! $8 US JSA, & more! $8 US

IN INGH! M CO ARC M

IN INGL! M I CO APR

I ING ! M CO MAY

AE #17: (108 pgs.) LOU FINE AE #18: (108 pgs.) STAN AE #19: (108 pgs.) DICK AE #20: (108 pgs.) TIMELY/ AE #21: (108 pgs.) IGER AE #22: (108 pgs.) EVERETT & AE #23: (108 pgs.) Two AE #24: (108 pgs.) NEW overview & art, ARNOLD GOLDBERG interview & art, SPRANG interview & art, MARVEL focus, INVADERS STUDIO with art by EISNER, KUBERT interviewed by GIL unseen Golden Age WONDER X-MEN intvs. with STAN LEE, DRAKE & MURPHY ANDER- plus KIRBY, DITKO, HECK, JERRY ROBINSON on FRED overview with KIRBY, KANE, FINE, MESKIN, ANDERSON, KANE & NEAL ADAMS, ROY WOMAN stories examined, COCKRUM, CLAREMONT, LEN SON interviews, plus EISNER, AYERS, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, RAY, BOB KANE, CARMINE ROBBINS, BOB DESCHAMPS CRANDALL, CARDY, EVANS, THOMAS on Sub-Mariner, BOB FUJITANI intv. Archie/ WEIN, ARNOLD DRAKE, JIM CRANDALL, DAVIS & EVANS’ EVERETT, WALLY WOOD’S INFANTINO, ALEX TOTH, intv., panel with FINGER, “SHEENA” section, THOMAS COLAN, BUSCEMA, SEVERIN, MLJ’s JOHN ROSENBERGER SHOOTER, MORT MESKIN non-EC action comics, FCA, Flash Gordon, FCA, KIRBY & WALLY WOOD, FCA, SPRANG BINDER, FOX, & WEISINGER, on the JSA, FCA, DAVE WOOD, FCA, BECK & EVERETT & VICTOR GORELICK intv., profiled, FCA, covers by FCA, rare art, more! $8 US COCKRUM & MESKIN! $8 US LOU FINE cover, more! $8 US SWAYZE covers, more! $8 US & RAY covers, more! $8 US FCA, rare art, more! $8 US STEVENS cover, more! $8 US covers, more! $8 US

Edited by JON B. COOKE COMIC BOOK ARTIST, 2000-2002 Eisner Award winner for “Best ComicsRelated Magazine,” celebrates the lives & work of great cartoonists, writers, & editors from all eras through in-depth interviews, feature articles, & unpublished art.

CBA #7: (132 pgs.) 1970s CBA #9: (116 pgs.) CBA #10: (116 pgs.) WALTER CBA #11: (116 pgs.) ALEX CBA #12: (116 pgs.) CBA #13: (116 pgs.) MARVEL CBA #14: (116 pgs.) TOWER MARVEL! JOHN BYRNE, PAUL CHARLTON COMICS: PART SIMONSON, plus WOMEN OF TOTH & SHELDON MAYER! CHARLTON COMICS OF THE HORROR OF THE 1970s! Art/ COMICS! Art by & intvs. with GULACY, DAN ADKINS, RICH ONE! DICK GIORDANO, THE COMICS! RAMONA TOTH interviews, unseen art, 1970s! Rare art/intvs. with interviews with WOLFMAN, WALLY WOOD, DAN ADKINS, BROWN, STEVE BUCKLER, DOUG MOENCH, PETER MORISI, JIM APARO, FRADON, MARIE SEVERIN, appreciations, checklist, & STATON, BYRNE, NEWTON, COLAN, PALMER, THOMAS, LEN JIM MOONEY & STEVE JOE GILL, MCLAUGHLIN, TRINA ROBBINS, JOHN more. Also, SHELLY MAYER’s SUTTON, ZECK, NICK CUTI, a ISABELLA, PERLIN, TRIMPE, SKEATES, GEORGE TUSKA, GERBER, new GULACY cover GLANZMAN, new GIORDANO WORKMAN, new SIMONSON kids, the real life SUGAR & NEW E-MAN strip, new MARCOS, a new COLAN/ new WOOD & ADKINS covers, SPIKE! $9 US STATON cover, more! $9 US PALMER cover, more! $9 US more! $9 US & more! $9 US cover, more! $9 US cover, & more! $9 US

CBA #15: (116 pgs.) LOVE & CBA #16: (132 pgs.) ’70s CBA #17: (116 pgs.) ARTHUR CBA #18: (116 pgs.) COSMIC CBA #19: (116 pgs.) HARVEY CBA #20: (116 pgs.) FATHERS CBA #21: (116 pgs.) THE ART CBA #22: (116 pgs.) GOLD ROCKETEERS! Art by & intvs. ATLAS/SEABOARD COMICS! ADAMS & CO.! ART ADAMS COMICS OF THE ’70s! Art by COMICS! Art by & intvs. with & SONS! Art by & intvs. with OF ADAM HUGHES! Art, KEY COMICS! Art by & intvs. with DAVE STEVENS, LOS Art by & interviews with interview & gallery, remem- & intvs. with JIM STARLIN, SIMON & KIRBY, WALLY the top father/son teams in interview & checklist with with RUSS MANNING, WALLY BROS. HERNANDEZ, MATT ERNIE CÓLON, CHAYKIN, bering GRAY MORROW, ALAN WEISS, ENGLEHART, WOOD, AL WILLIAMSON, GIL comics: ADAM, ANDY, & JOE HUGHES, plus a day in the life WOOD, JESSE SANTOS, WAGNER, DEAN MOTTER, ROVIN, AMENDOLA, HAMA, GEORGE ROUSSOS, GEORGE AL MILGROM, LEIALOHA, KANE, SID JACOBSON, FRED KUBERT & JOHN ROMITA SR. of ALEX ROSS, JOHN MARK EVANIER, DON GLUT, new STEVENS/HERNANDEZ new CÓLON & KUPPERBERG EVANS, new ART ADAMS ’60s Bullpen reunion, new RHOADES, MITCH O’CONNELL & JR., new ROMITA & BUSCEMA tribute, new new BRUCE TIMM cover, cover, more! $9 US covers, more! $9 US cover, more! $9 US STARLIN cover, more! $9 US cover, more! $9 US KUBERT covers, more! $9 US HUGHES cover, more! $9 US more! $9 US

E N SSU! G I Y! I N I L L R M A RI CO BRUA FINN AP I FE CBA #23: (116 pgs.) MIKE CBA #24: (116 pgs.) COMICS CBA #25: (116 pgs.) ALAN MIGNOLA SPOTLIGHT, plus OF NATIONAL LAMPOON with MOORE’S ABC COMICS with JILL THOMPSON: Sandman to GAHAN WILSON, BODÉ, NEAL MOORE, KEVIN NOWLAN, Scary Godmother! Mignola ADAMS, FRANK SPRINGER, GENE HA, RICK VEITCH, J.H. INTERVIEW & ART GALLERY, ALAN KUPPERBERG, BOBBY WILLIAMS, SCOTT DUNBIER, extensive CHECKLIST, new LONDON, MICHAEL GROSS, JIM BAIKIE, and NOWLAN & cover, & more! $9 US more! $9 US WILLIAMS covers! $9 US

COMICOLOGY

Edited by BRIAN SANER LAMKEN COMICOLOGY, the highlyacclaimed magazine about modern comics, recently ended its fourissue run, but back issues are available, featuring never-seen art & interviews.

CC #1: (100 pgs.) BRUCE CC #2: (100 pgs.) MIKE CC #3: (100 pgs.) CARLOS CC #4: (116 pgs., final issue) TIMM cover, interview & ALLRED interview & portfolio, PACHECO interview & portfolio, ALL-BRIAN ISSUE! Interviews sketchbook, JEPH LOEB inter- 60 years of THE SPIRIT, 25 ANDI WATSON interview, a look with BRIAN AZZARELLO, view, LEA HERNANDEZ, years of the X-MEN, PAUL at what comics predicted the BRIAN CLOPPER, BRIAN MANYA, USAGI YOJIMBO, 60 GRIST interview, FORTY future would be like, new color MICHAEL BENDIS, BRIAN years of ROBIN THE BOY WON- WINKS, new color ALLRED & PACHECO & WATSON covers, BOLLAND, huge BOLLAND portfolio, & more! $8 US DER, & more! $8 US GRIST covers, & more! $8 US & more! $8 US

Edited by MIKE MANLEY

Edited by JOHN MORROW

DRAW! is the professional “How-To” magazine on comics, cartooning, & animation. Each issue features indepth interviews & stepby-step demonstrations from top comics professionals on all aspects of graphic storytelling.

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR celebrates the life & career of the “King” of comics through interviews with Kirby & his contemporaries, feature articles, & rare & unseen Kirby artwork. Now in tabloid format, the magazine showcases Kirby’s art at even larger size.

DRAW #1: (108 pgs. with DRAW #2: (116 pgs.) “How- DRAW #3: (80 pgs.) “How-To” DRAW #4: (92 pgs.) “How-To” DRAW #5: (88 pgs.) “How-To” color) Professional “How-To” To” demos & interviews with demos & interviews with DICK demos & interviews with ERIK demos & interviews with mag on comics & cartooning, GENNDY TARTAKOVSKY, GIORDANO, BRET BLEVINS, LARSEN, KEVIN NOWLAN, BRIAN BENDIS & MIKE with art demos by GIBBONS, KLAUS JANSON, JERRY ORD- CHRIS BAILEY, MIKE MAN- DAVE COOPER, BRET OEMING, MIKE WIERINGO, ORDWAY, BLEVINS, VILLA- WAY, BRET BLEVINS, PHIL LEY, new column by PAUL BLEVINS, new column by MARK McKENNA, BRET GRAN, color BLEVINS cover HESTER, ANDE PARKS, RIVOCHE, reviews of art sup- PAUL RIVOCHE, color section, BLEVINS, PAUL RIVOCHE, & more! $8 US STEVE CONLEY, more! $8 US plies, more! $8 US more! $8 US color section, more! $8 US

TJKC #18: (68 pgs.) MARVEL issue! Intvs. with KIRBY, STAN LEE, ROY THOMAS, JOHN ROMITA, JOHN BUSCEMA, MARIE SEVERIN, HERB TRIMPE, unseen Kirby art, Kirby/Sinnott cover. $8 US

TJKC #20: (68 pgs.) KIRBY’S TJKC #21: (68 pgs.) KIRBY, TJKC #22: (68 pgs.) VIL- TJKC #23: (68 pgs.) TJKC #24: (68 pgs.) BATTLES! TJKC SIMON TJKC #26: (72 pgs.) GODS! TJKC #27: (72 pages) KIRBY ❏ #7:#25: (100(100 pgs.)pgs.) Companion WOMEN! Interviews with GIL KANE, & BRUCE TIMM LAINS! KIRBY, STEVE RUDE, Interviews with KIRBY, KIRBY’S original art fight, JIM & KIRBY! SIMON, & COLOR NEW GODS concept INFLUENCE Part One! KIRBY issue to theKIRBY, ALL-STAR COMKIRBY, DAVE STEVENS, & intvs., FAILURE TO COMMU- & MIKE MIGNOLA interviews, DENNY O’NEIL & TRACY SHOOTER interview, NEW JOHN SEVERIN interviews, drawings, KIRBY & WALTER and ALEX ROSS interviews, PANION! JULIE SCHWARTZ LISA KIRBY, unused 10-page NICATE (LEE dialogue vs. FF #49 pencils, FAILURE TO KIRBY, more FF #49 pencils, GODS #6 (“Glory Boat”) CAPTAIN AMERICA pencils, intv., JLA-JSA teamups, MAC SIMONSON interviews, FAIL- KIRBY FAMILY Roundtable, story, romance comics, Jack’s KIRBY notes), SILVER STAR COMMUNICATE, KOBRA, FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, pencils, FAILURE TO COM- unused BOY with EXPLORERS RABOY, FCA BECK & URE TO COMMUNICATE, all-star lineup of pros discuss original CAPTAIN VICTORY screenplay, TOPPS COMICS, ATLAS MONSTERS! unused 10-page SOUL LOVE MUNICATE, more! Kirby/ story, history of MAINLINE SWAYZE, BUCKLER & BECK BIBLE INFLUENCES, THOR, Kirby’s influence on them! MR. MIRACLE, more! $8 US Kirby / Timm cover. $8 US story, more! $8 US screenplay, more! $8 US unpublished art, more! $8 US Kirby/Stevens cover. $8 US Mignola cover. $8 US COMICS, more!$8$8USUS covers, more!

TJKC #28: (84 pgs.) KIRBY TJKC #29: (68 pgs.) ’70s TJKC #30: (68 pgs.) ’80s TJKC #31: (84 pgs.) TABLOID INFLUENCE Part Two! Intvs. MARVEL! Interviews with WORK! Interviews with ALAN FORMAT! Wraparound KIRBY/ with MARK HAMILL, JOHN KIRBY, KEITH GIFFEN & RICH MOORE & Kirby Estate’s ADAMS cover, KURT BUSIEK KRICFALUSI, MIKE ALLRED, BUCKLER, ’70s COVER ROBERT KATZ, HUNGER & LADRONN interviews, new Jack’s grandkids, career of GALLERY in pencil, FAILURE DOGS, SUPER POWERS, MARK EVANIER column, VINCE COLLETTA, more! TO COMMUNICATE, & more! SILVER STAR, ANIMATION favorite 2-PAGE SPREADS, Kirby/Allred cover. $8 US Kirby/Janson cover. $8 US work, more! $8 US 2001 Treasury, more! $13 US

TJKC #32: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! KIRBY interview, new MARK EVANIER column, plus Kirby’s Least Known Work: DAYS OF THE MOB #2, THE HORDE, BLACK HOLE, SOUL LOVE, PRISONER, more! $13 US

TJKC #33: (84 pgs.) TABLOID TJKC #34: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! TJKC #35: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! ALL-FANTASTIC FOUR issue! JOE SIMON & CARMINE GREAT ESCAPES with MISTER MARK EVANIER column, mini- INFANTINO interviews, MARK MIRACLE, comparing KIRBY interviews with everyone who EVANIER column, unknown & HOUDINI, Kirby Tribute worked on FF after Kirby, STAN 1950s concepts, CAPTAIN Panel with EVANIER, EISNER, LEE interview, 40 pgs. of FF AMERICA pencils, KIRBY/ BUSCEMA, ROMITA, ROYER, PENCILS, more! $13 US TOTH cover, more! $13 US & JOHNNY CARSON! $13 US

N GI ! MIN L I O C APR IN INGL! M CO APRI TJKC #36: (84 pgs.) TABLOID ALL-THOR issue! MARK EVANIER column, SINNOTT & ROMITA JR. interviews, unseen KIRBY INTV., ART GALLERY, FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, more! $13 US

TJKC #37: (84 pgs.) TABLOID TJKC #38: (84 pgs.) TABLOID HOW TO DRAW THE KIRBY KIRBY: STORYTELLER! MARK WAY issue! MARK EVANIER EVANIER column, JOE SINcolumn, MIKE ROYER on ink- NOTT on inking, SWIPES, talks ing, KIRBY interview, ART with JACK DAVIS, PAUL GALLERY, analysis of Kirby’s GULACY, HERNANDEZ BROS., art techniques, more! $13 US ART GALLERY, more! $13 US

Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH WRITE NOW!, the mag for writers of comics, animation, & sci-fi, puts you in the minds of today’s top writers and editors. Each issue features writing tips from pros on both sides of the desk, interviews, sample scripts, reviews, and more.

WN #1: (88 pgs.) MARK WN #2: (96 pgs.) ERIK WN #3: (80 pgs.) DEODATO WN #4: (80 pgs.) Interviews BAGLEY cover & interview, LARSEN cover & interview, JR. Hulk cover, intvs. & articles and lessons with WARREN BRIAN BENDIS & STAN LEE STAN BERKOWITZ on the by BRUCE JONES, AXEL ELLIS, HOWARD CHAYKIN, interviews, JOE QUESADA on Justice League cartoon, TODD ALONSO, JIMMY PALMIOTTI, PAUL DINI, BOB SCHRECK, what editors really want, TOM ALCOTT on Samurai Jack, LEE KURT BUSIEK, FABIAN DIANA SCHUTZ, JOEY CAVADeFALCO, J.M. DeMATTEIS, NORDLING, ANNE D. BERN- NICIEZA, STEVEN GRANT, LIERI, STEVEN GRANT, DENNY more! $8 US STEIN, & more! $8 US DENNY O’NEIL, more! $8 US O’NEIL, more! $8 US

US funds only, drawn on a US bank. Prices include US Postage. PER ITEM: Add $2 Canada, $3 Surface, $7 Airmail. Read excerpts & order online: www.twomorrows.com

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COMIC BOOK ARTIST #23: MAGIC OF MIKE MIGNOLA!

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #37: HOW TO DRAW KIRBY-STYLE!

ALTER EGO #21: IGER STUDIO AND THE JSA!

• NEW HELLBOY COVER by MIKE MIGNOLA! • Career-spanning MIGNOLA INTERVIEW! • Possibly the most remarkable gallery of RARE AND UNSEEN MIGNOLA ART ever published! • JILL THOMPSON interviewed, from Sandman to Scary Godmother! • HARLAN ELLISON talks comics in a lengthy interview! • JOSÉ DELBO speaks in our classic artist showcase, plus our regular features and more!

• Two NEVER-PUBLISHED COLOR KIRBY COVERS! • MIKE ROYER interview on how he inked Jack’s work! • HUGE GALLERY tracing the evolution of Jack’s style! • New column on OBSCURE KIRBY WORK! • Columnists MARK EVANIER & ADAM McGOVERN! • Special sections on Jack’s TECHNIQUE AND INFLUENCES! • Comparing STAN LEE’S WRITING TO JACK’S, & much more, including rare and unpublished art!

• DAVE STEVENS COVER and “SHEENA” section with art by FRANK BRUNNER and other “good girl” artists! • Inside the Golden Age Iger Shop with art by EISNER, FINE, CRANDALL, MESKIN, CARDY, EVANS, & others! • ROY THOMAS on the JSA & ALL-STAR SQUADRON, with art by GIL KANE, JACK KIRBY, ALEX TOTH, and JERRY ORDWAY! • MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, SCHAFFENBERGER, & more!

(Edited by JON B. COOKE • 116 pages) $9 US POSTPAID (Canada: $11, Elsewhere: $12 Surface, $16 Airmail).

(Edited by JOHN MORROW • 84 tabloid pages) Four-issue subscriptions: $36 Standard, $52 First Class (Canada: $60, Elsewhere: $64 Surface, $80 Airmail).

(Edited by ROY THOMAS • 108 pages) Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 Standard, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewhere: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). FOR SIX-ISSUE SUBS, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

WRITE NOW! #2: THE NEW MAG FOR WRITERS OF COMICS, ANIMATION, & SCI-FI

“I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS GUY!” TRADE PAPERBACK

DRAW! #5: THE HOW-TO MAG ON COMICS & CARTOONING!

Writer Blake Bell explores the lives of the partners and wives of the top names in comics, as they share memories, anecdotes, personal photos, momentos, and never-before-seen art by the top creators in comics!

• Interview and sketchbook by MIKE WIERINGO! • BRIAN BENDIS AND MIKE OEMING show how they create the series POWERS! • BRET BLEVINS shows how to draw great hands! • The illusion of depth in design, by PAUL RIVOCHE! • Must-have art books reviewed by TERRY BEATTY! • Plus reviews of the best art supplies, links and more!

Get practical advice and tips on writing from top pros on both sides of the desk, including: • ERIK LARSEN on writing/drawing Savage Dragon! • STAN BERKOWITZ on scripting the Justice League show! • STEVEN GRANT offers 10 rules for comics writers! • TOM DeFALCO shows the nuts & bolts of plotting! • PLUS: LEE NORDLING, TODD ALCOTT, and more! (Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH • 96 pages) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail).

• ALAN MOORE • WILL EISNER • STAN LEE • GENE COLAN • JOE KUBERT • JOHN ROMITA • HARVEY KURTZMAN • DAVE SIM • HOWARD CRUSE • DAN DeCARLO • DAVE COOPER and many more! (208-Page Trade Paperback) $24 US (Canada: $26, Elsewhere: $27 Surface, $31 Airmail).

(Edited by MIKE MANLEY • 88 pages w/color section) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail). NOTE: Contains nudity for purposes of figure drawing. Intended for Mature Readers.