Pinchas Gutter

“For a little while, I don’t know if it was two months or six weeks or three months, I don’t really remember time in terms of days or months, didn’t really mean that much. And my parents, together with others, and that particular care taker were preparing a bunker. Because obviously, they believe if they could hold out long enough, they could survive. So they started putting food, water, and building a bunker where we could spend some time and maybe do something, whatever it was, but not… one of the things that I remember quite clearly- my parents, is not… they did not want to give in, or give up. Or let themselves be called by the Germans. And I think that to large extend, this feeling was embodied(?) by them by HaRav Kroll (?) - because I remember he came to us several times before, before that last time, when he said, when he took his goodbye from, and he told us the documents won’t help, that he said that whatever you do, you must not allow yourself to be called. Because to be called meant to be dead [...]”

“[...] I’d like to talk about the preparations for the end, which I think everybody knew was coming. Because they had this, the first action and the second action, and now everybody was waiting- because it was (??) and everybody was waiting. And while they were waiting, they were preparing bunkers. And our building, the caretaker, and I suppose some of the men including my father, decided to build a bunker underneath the building. The front portion of the building was destroyed during the bombing of the war, by a bomb. So that was never obviously fixed up. But the back portion stood, quite well, that’s where we lived. We lived in a small apartment. And right underneath those ruins, they started digging. They went and through(?) a cellar, and started digging quite a big bunker. To hold… I reckon there were a few hundred people in that bunker. Several hundred people in that bunker. And the… my father and my mother, after the last discussion they had with my cousin, who had some connections with the authorities, where he could try and get, you know, these different types of documents, and they told us we mustn’t believe anybody, we must just try and survive, but we mustn’t believe anybody that tells us it’s gonna be good, you gonna be this… you must just try and do what your gut feeling tells you, I’m talking about gut feelingI didn’t know about gut feeling in those days, but I’m just telling you- you must believe in god, and you must try your best to survive. That you must not believe that the Germans, or the Poles, or anybody who was there, to try and get you into the gas chambers [...]”

But I remember there was light, because I read. It wasn’t very bright, you know, it was kind of vague, dim light. But I could read by it. And I just spent my time reading “Scarlett OHara”, and waiting for the trap door to open.

She dressed us in something, which is like tights but made from wool, and in Polish, it is call “Riteuzi”. Why “Riteuzi” stuck back in my mind I don’t know, but I remember she was trying to get me in as quickly as possible, she was trying to pull my feet in, into this “Riteuzi”. And as soon as we got dressed I grabbed my suitcase. But I didn’t grab a suitcase with things, I grabbed a suitcase with just full of lamps. Don’t ask me why, but I collected lamps. And I grabbed the book which was called “Scarlett OHara”, which I didn’t know then, was “Gone with the wind”, I only discovered it many years later when I got to England after the war. And which I’ve been reading, it was the only book that I had, for quite a long time I’ve been reading it backwards and forwards.

[...] And I remember extremely well, I remember visually, not only do I remember the feelings but I remember the visual. I remember it was very early in the morning, that my mother woke us up, we were asleep. And she dressed us, I mean, it wasn’t that cold but she dressed us in warm clothes. Until this day I don’t know why. She dressed us in something, which is like tights but made from wool, and in Polish, it is call “Riteuzi” Why “Riteuzi” stuck back in my mind I don’t know, but I remember she was trying to get me in as quickly as possible, she was trying to pull my feet in, into this “Riteuzi”. And as soon as we got dressed I grabbed my suitcase. But I didn’t grab a suitcase with things, I grabbed a suitcase with just full of lamps. Don’t ask me why, but I collected lamps. And I grabbed the book which was called “Scarlett O’Hara”, which I didn’t know then, was “Gone with the wind”, I only discovered it many years later when I got to England after the war. And which I’ve been reading, it was the only book that I had, for quite a long time I’ve been reading it backwards and forwards. So I grab those two things and I went down to the bunker.

Interviewer: Now, when you say lamps you mean flashlights?

Yeah, the flashlights without bulbs, without batteries but they were just empty flashlights. Which I’ve been collecting and I had a whole suitcase and I wouldn’t let go of that suitcase for the alive. And that’s what I grabbed. And I went down to the bunker, they had candles there… you know, I can’t remember whether they had light or not. It’s very… the memory is very sticky about that. I know there was light, we were not in darkness. But I can’t remember if there was only candles or whether there was some light, electric light. Because there was electric light in the ghetto but I don’t know when it stopped and when it started and how they fixed it up. Just can’t remember. I got a feeling it was mainly candlelight. Or maybe they had “neft” lamps (oil), I just can’t… I don’t remember, that memory I haven’t got. But I remember there was light, because I read. It wasn’t very bright, you know, it was kind of vague, dim light. But I could read by it. And I just spent my time reading “Scarlett O’Hara”, and waiting for the trap door to open. There was a trap door, and one- the caretaker- would stay outside and he would cover the trap door in such a way that it would look like just earth or whatever, and he would hide, he had a small hide somewhere outside, and when the Germans would disappear for the night from the ghetto, he would open it up and we would go out and sometimes we even would go back to the little apartment that we had and we even sleep out there. Sometimes we would just go out for half an hour and sleep in the bunker. Towards the end, for the last, we stayed mostly in the bunker because we were told that there were Jewish Gestapo, if you don’t mind, I mean - they weren’t really Gestapo but they were like Gestapo, they were informers that collaborating with the Gestapo, they wore the same type of clothes as the Gestapo, except, except when they… you know, during the day. But at night, they used to come and… beg to be let in, that they are alone and they must be… they want to find shelter, and they would cry and then they would find out where it was, and the next night when we would go out, they would disappear, and the next thing is... So they were very careful about that. And they must have been extremely careful because we were several weeks in that bunker, I would say we were about anything between maybe three or four weeks, in that bunker. That my memory.

Interviewer: Did people talk in the bunker?

Pinchas: umm… people talk, but, it was.. It was always in hush tones, and … it was… I don’t remember words. What I do remember is the… the… the… the way people… it was hysterical shushing. People were talk in that kind of pitch of hysteria, I think everybody must have been so… worked-up and tense, which is quite, you know, understandable, I think those people… Most of the adults must have been beside themselves. I don’t think that I really… completely realised, you know… I mean, I know what was going on, but I don’t think that… certainly, in the bunker, I wasn’t scared. Don’t ask me why, but I wasn’t scared. But I’m sure my mother and my father must have been terrified. That’s why I’m talking about this hysteria. It wasn’t Hysteria- loud hysteria, it was inner hysteria, that was… that I remember quite clearly. If you ask me now I remember cause I can picture the people, I even remember when eventually the knock, the inevitable knock came on the trap door saying ‘Juden Raus’ that we were discovered or we were informed on, and they say ‘if you don’t come out in half an hour we’re going to pump gas through your… we know where your air vents are, we’re gonna pump’ and they opened up, I remember people say ‘well, maybe we can bribe them, maybe we can give them some money, maybe we can cry and save us, maybe we’ll run away’, so there was this continuous, kind of, you know… edge of hysteria. Even to the last moment”